| 00:01.40 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rfabe53eed2aa 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/alsa_audio/plugin.vala: fsodeviced: fix concurrent playing of multiple sounds |
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| 00:58.56 | slaxxer | what is it |
| 00:59.19 | slaxxer | shr-unstable latest work? |
| 01:05.46 | DocScrutinizer | 20090703 here |
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| 02:01.33 | mjr | so, without bothering to study the matter myself; Milepost GCC, our friend? |
| 02:07.45 | DocScrutinizer | mjr: errr... ? |
| 02:12.40 | mjr | http://lwn.net/Articles/339852/ |
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| 02:18.32 | DocScrutinizer | well, seems a little like voodoo |
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| 04:08.39 | slaxxer | happy birthday freerunner |
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| 05:56.14 | PaulFertser | Psi_: are you well now and ready for hacking? ;) |
| 05:56.29 | PaulFertser | Psi_: i'm in Moscow, Russia |
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| 06:49.53 | methril|work | good morning |
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| 09:13.46 | Psi_ | PaulFertser: yep |
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| 09:17.59 | PaulFertser | Psi_: NZ is some kind of a dreamland for me. I imagine there's lots of good bicycle paths suitable for a road racing biking, sunny weather everyday and everybody understands english :D |
| 09:21.05 | Psi_ | well you're right about everyone understanding english |
| 09:21.16 | Psi_ | i wouldnt say we have a lot of cycle paths |
| 09:21.24 | Psi_ | but they are working on it |
| 09:22.18 | Psi_ | problem with the ones we do have is quite a few are Bus & Cycle lanes, and the buses are out to kill you |
| 09:22.48 | PaulFertser | Psi_: in Moscow there're no dedicated lanes at all, we move along with the traffic. |
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| 09:22.53 | Psi_ | sometimes i wonder if being a bad driver is a requirement to drive a bus |
| 09:23.49 | Psi_ | weather in nz is quite strange |
| 09:24.19 | Psi_ | most of the time its fine but can change from sunny to raining in and hour and then back again the next hour |
| 09:25.36 | PaulFertser | It's ok then :) |
| 09:26.12 | Psi_ | much better in my opinion to austrailian weather tho, which is quite humid |
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| 09:26.38 | Psi_ | hates sunny humid weather |
| 09:27.31 | Psi_ | doesn't snow where i am tho, and i like snow |
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| 09:30.31 | Psi_ | im in Auckland city and its only snowed here once back in 1939 |
| 09:30.44 | Psi_ | snows lots in other parts of nz tho |
| 09:32.15 | PaulFertser | I think i should plan a trip to NZ someday... Or even to find some job and spend a year. |
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| 09:34.25 | PaulFertser | Psi_: does your experience confirm that turning off backlight on gta01 doesn't impact battery life considerably? |
| 09:34.50 | Psi_ | id have to run some tests |
| 09:36.14 | Psi_ | you thinking that power is being wasted somewhere when the backlight is off? |
| 09:37.30 | PaulFertser | Psi_: yeah, at least that's what josch's results suggest. |
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| 09:38.31 | PaulFertser | Psi_: good thing about it is that you can use builtin current sensor (0.22R shunt actually) because the device is running. |
| 09:38.33 | Psi_ | do you think this wastage only happens when the phone is in suspend with backlight off? |
| 09:38.57 | PaulFertser | Psi_: no, i'm talking about idle but not suspended state. |
| 09:39.02 | Psi_ | hm.. |
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| 09:39.15 | Psi_ | well i can definitly measure current with and without backlight |
| 09:39.17 | PaulFertser | Psi_: you should get >10hrs without backlight and screen off. |
| 09:39.21 | PBeck | hi |
| 09:39.54 | PaulFertser | Psi_: but it's not the case currently, something wrong is going on. |
| 09:39.55 | Psi_ | ok, well my phone has been in my pocket for the last 6 hours |
| 09:40.00 | Psi_ | i just put it back on charge |
| 09:40.27 | PaulFertser | Psi_: you mean your gta01 survives more than 6 hours without fully depleting the battery? |
| 09:40.36 | Psi_ | it was in suspend |
| 09:40.57 | Psi_ | its charging back up now, when its charged ill try run it flat without suspend |
| 09:41.04 | Psi_ | but with backlight off and see how long it lasts |
| 09:41.41 | PaulFertser | Psi_: suspend doesn't count. You've already told me that you got ~40 or ~20 mA in suspend. So 24hrs is a reasonable estimate for a suspended device. And you don't need to run it flat, just measuring current for some time is enough. |
| 09:41.45 | Psi_ | yeah |
| 09:41.58 | Psi_ | ok |
| 09:42.18 | Psi_ | do you want me to measure the current using its built in shunt or DMM? |
| 09:42.35 | PaulFertser | Psi_: also josch provided me with logs i fail to understand. The consumed current fluctuates like mad without any reason (and that is with gps and gsm off) |
| 09:43.23 | PaulFertser | Psi_: it'd be best to have both internal and external measurements to compare and to evaluate reliability of internal shunt data. |
| 09:43.24 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: you mean in sspend? |
| 09:43.33 | SpeedEvil | suspend |
| 09:43.57 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: no, i mean while running |
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| 09:44.06 | SpeedEvil | look at powertop - though it won't run. |
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| 09:44.40 | SpeedEvil | Unless you have no sources of wakeups at all - you will get the CPU waking up at random intervals to service wifi, or ... |
| 09:44.57 | Psi_ | not on gta01 you wont :( |
| 09:45.10 | SpeedEvil | Then you get the normal periodic, or semi-periodic timer ticks |
| 09:45.19 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: here're josch's results: 372 543 404 458 etc... I don't see how it can be explained. That's on idle system with gsm never turned on (and gps too). |
| 09:45.36 | josch | y0 |
| 09:45.42 | Psi_ | what kind of timeframe where those results taken in |
| 09:45.49 | PaulFertser | Psi_: every second |
| 09:46.02 | SpeedEvil | which if you don't have a meter that either averages over - say - 30s, or can sample fast enough to catch the peaks, you're screwed |
| 09:46.04 | Psi_ | probably need to average it, cpu could have been doing anything |
| 09:46.13 | PaulFertser | Psi_: without doing anything with the device. Idle bare-bone debian install. |
| 09:46.23 | Psi_ | hm.. thats odd |
| 09:46.27 | PaulFertser | Psi_: not on the order of 100s of mA! |
| 09:46.31 | Psi_ | yeah |
| 09:46.32 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 09:46.40 | SpeedEvil | on the order of 100s of mA |
| 09:46.50 | SpeedEvil | If it's just reading using the CPU |
| 09:46.57 | SpeedEvil | hangon |
| 09:47.06 | SpeedEvil | this is GTA01 - so it can't be reading current |
| 09:47.19 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: it measures voltage drop across 0.22 shunt. |
| 09:47.20 | josch | o0 |
| 09:47.35 | SpeedEvil | Or IIRC there was a current sensor - but it was _hopelessly_ noisy |
| 09:47.35 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: reads it from pcf50606 |
| 09:48.32 | SpeedEvil | I'll try to get my 01 up and instrumented today. (scope) |
| 09:49.08 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: ok, that might as well explain it. It takes 22mV to make the current measurement 100mA more than it's in reality. |
| 09:49.36 | Psi_ | yeah, im trying to setup a proper test bed so i can easy run gta01 from the lab psu with scope attached for reading current |
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| 09:49.50 | Psi_ | been too busy/sick so far, |
| 09:50.11 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: hey, how's the conference? Lacked internet access i assume? |
| 09:50.35 | Psi_ | hm.. few new shr unstable gta01 images out, anyone know if they are good? |
| 09:51.17 | PaulFertser | Psi_: they don't fit internal nand |
| 09:51.28 | Psi_ | thats fine, i dont use it |
| 09:51.29 | Psi_ | :) |
| 09:51.34 | PaulFertser | Psi_: no kernel changes since then. |
| 09:52.14 | Psi_ | i noticed you posted a patch to the list about fixing the uV uA units |
| 09:53.03 | PaulFertser | Psi_: yeah. Not that it helps much. I'm going to prepare a patch to provide some kind of remaining charge estimate (as suggested by SpeedEvil) probably even today's evening. |
| 09:53.31 | Psi_ | nice |
| 09:53.55 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, hi!, great! internet present, but, I just find more interesting to speak with people rather than chatting) |
| 09:54.05 | PaulFertser | Psi_: not that nice because it's against the power_supply specs. But gta01 is unique, so we'll have an exception ;) |
| 09:54.17 | Psi_ | yeah |
| 09:54.26 | SpeedEvil | GTA01 is not unique |
| 09:54.31 | Psi_ | not really any other way to do it tho is there? |
| 09:54.32 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: cool, i hope you enjoyed it. |
| 09:54.49 | SpeedEvil | The right way to do this would be to make the power supply specs know about li-ion discharge and stuff. |
| 09:55.08 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: i'm not sure it belongs to the kernelspace. |
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| 09:55.43 | max_posedon | yep, most interesting was speaking with Nokia insider, I can't say what about we speak, but nokia really do much for us |
| 09:55.48 | SpeedEvil | userspace uploads a few point linear graph is probably sane |
| 09:55.57 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: us == whom? |
| 09:56.26 | max_posedon | all people who want linux on phones and different embedded devices |
| 09:56.27 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: i'd really prefer a library, much more flexible approach with less downsides. |
| 09:56.52 | max_posedon | for example they are main omap3530(beagleboard) hackers |
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| 09:58.48 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: why don't they release the schematics for N800? |
| 09:59.27 | max_posedon | because of bisness issues I think, I don't know |
| 09:59.53 | madwoota | no matter how much people within a company want to open things up, companies themselves still tend to cling to the close, restrict, deny mentality |
| 10:00.11 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: also i very much dislike the story about how they treated OM qtopia devs. |
| 10:00.14 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, Here you can find start link for many fotos and few reports about conf http://lvee.org/ru |
| 10:00.38 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, its a big company, they can't be white or black |
| 10:00.55 | max_posedon | but I like that they have many "white" parts. |
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| 10:08.00 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: why do they build a custom distribution instead of contributing directly to Debian? |
| 10:09.22 | max_posedon | because of debian armel doesn't optimized for specific devices? |
| 10:09.36 | max_posedon | because of they have proprietary parts and can't remove them? |
| 10:10.53 | max_posedon | because debian isn't cross compiled disto? (debian use scratchbox = qemu <- its a pita!) |
| 10:11.14 | max_posedon | ok, maemo still use scratchbox too) |
| 10:12.13 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: proprietary parts! That skype shit they ship with maemo drives me mad. |
| 10:12.36 | max_posedon | sure, but, they want do money |
| 10:12.54 | max_posedon | I understand them, and I prefer this status, than symbian |
| 10:13.05 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: maemo is very much like debian but it's a fork nevertheless. Unnecessary fork, that's quite uncooperative on nokia's part to do that imho. |
| 10:13.32 | max_posedon | problem with maemo disto that they started do it long time ago |
| 10:13.52 | max_posedon | they can't fix all such stuff immediatle |
| 10:14.20 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: you know what really upsets me? Duplicating efforts. People in their spare time duplicate someone's work just because some assholes do not know how to share properly. |
| 10:15.05 | max_posedon | Do you know what really upsets me? Death of openmoko telephony project. |
| 10:15.41 | max_posedon | I don't want same for nokia, because after this we will have only motorolla crap. |
| 10:16.15 | max_posedon | I bet you next diveces will be more open than previous, not 100% but still. |
| 10:16.16 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: you're talking like OM inc. screwed it because they were too open. |
| 10:17.44 | max_posedon | nope, I just want to tell you, that only nokia (as company) works now on open software for mobile phones. |
| 10:17.58 | max_posedon | and if they became 100% open right now, that can die. |
| 10:18.05 | max_posedon | *they* |
| 10:18.34 | max_posedon | Linux Maemo project will closed, and what people will do next? |
| 10:19.08 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: will the next nokia device be as good for custom projects as gta02? I bet not. Because they suck at being "open". I don't need "openness", fuckit. I want freedom. And nokia is never about freedom all they say is "open", "open", free of charge skype and shit. |
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| 10:20.11 | max_posedon | so, just don't buy their next device. But you doesn't allowed to say crap about this company because of they have few proprietary parts. |
| 10:20.37 | max_posedon | You are developer, I'm developer, we are stupid speaking about moneys. |
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| 10:20.48 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: nokia will die if they open maemo? Come on, they are a big player. They can afford making whatever they like because shitloads of lemmings will still buy those shiny UIQ cameraphones and stuff. |
| 10:20.55 | SpeedEvil | misread that a monkeys, and was confused. |
| 10:21.04 | max_posedon | not nokia will die, but maemo project |
| 10:21.15 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: same for me, what monkeys? :))) |
| 10:21.30 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: they can sponsor the maemo project and even not notice it. |
| 10:21.31 | max_posedon | and maemo project death will be really bad, very bad, for all OSS |
| 10:21.43 | SpeedEvil | wonders about moblin |
| 10:22.02 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: really? What maemo did for the free software? Omap support for the kernel? Well, it's one good thing. What else? |
| 10:22.35 | max_posedon | many different patches in *all* software that they use/will use on their linux devices |
| 10:22.43 | max_posedon | from X till upstart |
| 10:22.46 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: and btw i saw many TI employees sending patches for OMAP, they were not from nokia. |
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| 10:23.51 | max_posedon | sure, but still. If you dislike this company its you choise, I just doesn't understand people who do this, just because they do software 90% open, not 100. |
| 10:24.30 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: i fail to see how maemo is successfull. If it was the case, we'd have a really good pim solution (with syncing and everything) for FR already. |
| 10:24.50 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: and a "good" (web2.0-capable) web-browser. |
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| 10:25.19 | max_posedon | hm.. ok, I just postpone this discussion until next maemo device. |
| 10:25.51 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: ha, you're waiting for N810-like but in a smaller form-factor and GSM-equipped. But it doesn't prove anything. |
| 10:26.34 | max_posedon | software and style of openness of such device will prove much |
| 10:26.37 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: really, tell me what benefits can i have on my FR because maemo is open? |
| 10:26.59 | max_posedon | you can run maemo? you can use clutter? |
| 10:27.12 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: ofoned folks already showed their degree of opennes. |
| 10:27.49 | max_posedon | if you judge only but one project which done by 3 person from nokia, its your position. |
| 10:27.54 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: i don't see benefits in running maemo on FR, can you enlighten me? |
| 10:28.27 | max_posedon | different X apps, from weather app till some other interested stuff |
| 10:28.42 | max_posedon | I haven't n8x0 device, not very familar with it. |
| 10:28.48 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: why nobody is using it on FR if it's so cool? |
| 10:28.59 | max_posedon | why nobody? |
| 10:29.07 | max_posedon | google Mer project |
| 10:29.16 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: ok, let it be "nobody". |
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| 10:29.44 | max_posedon | ha-ha, you for example doesn't use shr, because of you debian user (if I'm not mistaken) |
| 10:29.55 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: so? |
| 10:29.58 | max_posedon | does it mean, that you think that shr project is useless? |
| 10:30.30 | max_posedon | I really want have mix of different frameworks on FR |
| 10:30.34 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: no, but i see shr users and developers everyday. I see that it's being actively used and developed. Why don't i see those running mer? |
| 10:30.39 | max_posedon | but I understand that it require time. |
| 10:30.58 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: come on, there's more interest in android shit than in mer. |
| 10:31.00 | max_posedon | because you don't visited maemo irc channel? |
| 10:31.35 | max_posedon | maemo Mer isn't about telephone at all. that haven't nothing to do here. |
| 10:31.35 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: hah, all FR owners are gathered here, we have common kernel after all! |
| 10:32.04 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: many people don't use FR as a phone and would be happy to use it as a good PDA. |
| 10:32.07 | max_posedon | but Mer project doesn't connected with kernel at all. |
| 10:32.50 | PaulFertser | Aha, it's like mer users are so intelligent that they can easily tell kernel problems from userspace ones. |
| 10:34.02 | max_posedon | if there no any person who work on kernel, who work on FSO. If they just fixes maemo bugs, when they runned it on FR, what they can do here? |
| 10:35.07 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: the fact maemo required to be forked to be made useful tells much already. |
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| 10:35.35 | max_posedon | I'm not sure that Mer "is fork" sorry, I haven't such info. |
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| 10:36.22 | max_posedon | also, maemo (hildon?) is just one of their projects. |
| 10:36.57 | max_posedon | I still love any company who pay for OSS developement, even only 50% of devs do anything good for all. |
| 10:37.33 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: ok, found http://lwn.net/Articles/322693/ reading. |
| 10:39.19 | PaulFertser | "Nokia ... which ... cooperated fully ... and even provide firmware images for closed-source drivers" What an amazing example of generousity! |
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| 10:47.35 | max_posedon | I don't care about binary firmware, it prevented me from buying n8x0, but all commits in OSS projects from @nokia.com prevent me from think about Nokia as about good company. I may be never will buy their device, but attitute will be good until they stop maemo project. |
| 10:47.52 | max_posedon | *prevent think as about bad* |
| 10:48.59 | SpeedEvil | binary drivers often mean 'stop working as soon as company loses interest' |
| 10:49.14 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: i still fail to see how maemo project is beneficial to the free software community. |
| 10:49.40 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: yes, it runs on n800 and n810, but that seems to be all. |
| 10:50.36 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: i've just /j #mer and asked about FR users. Nobody answered yet. Probably that's because it's so cool they have no problems or need to discuss anything. |
| 10:51.59 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, so, I'm asking you google all their commits to OSS projects, if you want be more objective. |
| 10:52.39 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: do you have a good recipe please? Because if i fail to find it you'll say that's because i'm biased ;) |
| 10:52.40 | max_posedon | I don't want change your opinion, I just want you understand mine, even if you think that I'm wrong :). |
| 10:53.17 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: btw, i don't care much about "OSS" projects. |
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| 11:37.29 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: i'll send you a discussion with Mer guys later. For me it's obvious from their words if Nokia worth working with or not. |
| 11:38.29 | max_posedon | but I remind you that maemo is part of all people working on Linux support. But interview still interesting. |
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| 11:40.25 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: i know about bluez and some gtk contributions but what else? |
| 11:41.04 | max_posedon | pure that I'm not maemo user, and don't know much about all stuff inside maemo. |
| 11:41.15 | max_posedon | (and not even developer who like gtk) |
| 11:44.03 | Q-Master | had seen N800 8) |
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| 11:48.41 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, [back to LVEE], I sent you my final presentation variant, also will notify you when video will be avaible. |
| 11:49.14 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: cool, i'll wait. Can you send me pdf/ps variant please? |
| 11:49.20 | max_posedon | done |
| 11:49.31 | max_posedon | (in tar.bz2 you will fine pdf and tex and images) |
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| 11:58.24 | badcloud_ | anyone know how to have an animated gif appear along with the incoming call dialog? |
| 11:58.42 | badcloud_ | in hackable1, forgot to mention |
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| 12:43.06 | kardan_ | good day! |
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| 13:04.27 | viana | hi all |
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| 14:27.28 | serdar | hi |
| 14:27.33 | serdar | I have a question |
| 14:27.49 | serdar | If I got Moko9 do I flash moko11 or moko10 previous |
| 14:27.50 | serdar | ? |
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| 14:29.40 | max_posedon | You should flash moko11 |
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| 14:30.12 | serdar | I got gsm_ac_gp_fd_pu_em_cph_ds_vc_cal35_ri_36_amd8_ts0-Moko9-veta1 |
| 14:30.20 | spydon_ | wtf is moko9-11, what have I missed? |
| 14:30.42 | serdar | okay, flashing Moko10beta |
| 14:30.47 | serdar | args |
| 14:30.53 | serdar | beta I meant not veta |
| 14:31.51 | serdar | max_posedon, you mean flashing Moko10 before Moko11 is not necessary? |
| 14:32.08 | max_posedon | no, I mean you should flash moko11 right now) |
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| 14:35.12 | serdar | okay |
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| 14:49.08 | serdar | does I understand it correct, that I need only one partition for this flash file on my usd? |
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| 14:56.50 | PaulFertser | serdar: you need to dd the usd image "as is" to the device. It'll create 2 partitions on it iirc. |
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| 15:04.13 | serdar | okay |
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| 15:11.54 | serdar | Moko11 now. nothing left I guess? |
| 15:15.47 | max_posedon | now you want install shr-unstable |
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| 16:26.45 | DocScrutinizer | spydon: see wiki gsm_flashing page |
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| 18:52.14 | Darkas | hi |
| 18:52.26 | Darkas | I got a problem with masquerading |
| 18:52.46 | Darkas | but I'm not sure why because iptables are working well |
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| 18:57.01 | Darkas | I can't even ping any google ip but ssh works fine |
| 18:57.05 | SpeedEvil | iptables on the host? |
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| 18:57.11 | SpeedEvil | ssh to wwhat |
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| 19:04.18 | SM2k | Darkas: are you referring to iptables on the phone? |
| 19:04.38 | Darkas | SM2k, no to them on my pc |
| 19:05.05 | SM2k | so you're using the pc as a gateway and using usb networking? |
| 19:05.07 | Darkas | they don't tell my any error messages but it doesn't work |
| 19:05.10 | Darkas | yes |
| 19:05.24 | SM2k | and you're clearly aware that icmp isn't the same protocol as tcp or usb? |
| 19:05.51 | SM2k | run this line as root "iptables -A FORWARD -j LOG" |
| 19:06.01 | SM2k | then run "tail -f /var/log/messages" |
| 19:06.23 | SM2k | and try your ping again |
| 19:06.24 | SM2k | run those lines on the pc btw |
| 19:07.31 | Darkas | no output in /var/log/messages |
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| 19:07.45 | SM2k | fwiw a couple lines such as: |
| 19:07.45 | SM2k | -A FORWARD -o usb+ -j ACCEPT |
| 19:07.45 | SM2k | -A FORWARD -i usb+ -j ACCEPT |
| 19:07.45 | SM2k | might be all you need |
| 19:08.41 | SM2k | oh and run this: cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward |
| 19:08.54 | SM2k | if it's a 0 then that's definitely part of your problem |
| 19:09.06 | SpeedEvil | search MASQ on the wiki |
| 19:10.26 | Darkas | ok, IP forwarding turned on but everything you told me didn't help |
| 19:10.58 | Darkas | on my other pc the same works fine... |
| 19:11.30 | Darkas | I already had a look at my kernel options but everything is ok there |
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| 19:15.31 | SM2k | Darkas: if you run the exact same commands on two different machines and only one works, it's clearly an environmental issue (but you knew that already). there reaches a point where all I can suggest is what SpeedEvil said, and that's to read the wiki. |
| 19:16.16 | Darkas | SM2k, then I'll reread it until I found the problem ;) |
| 19:16.18 | Darkas | thanks |
| 19:16.40 | SpeedEvil | ssh socks tunnel is a cheesy 'solution' |
| 19:16.56 | SM2k | I've found that 95% of the time the wiki knows the answer, it just doesn't beat you over the head with it. :-) |
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| 20:01.19 | |Marco| | this is strange, after activating gprs over dbus andthen deactivating successfully, I can't activate it again or poll directly with mdbus, it just hangs :/ |
| 20:01.23 | |Marco| | this is with shr-shr-lite-image-glibc-ipk--20090703-om-gta02.rootfs.tar.gz |
| 20:02.35 | SM2k | |Marco|: did it release its resources cleanly? |
| 20:02.53 | |Marco| | I don't know, I can't get a status |
| 20:03.11 | |Marco| | mdbus is hanging |
| 20:03.37 | |Marco| | ouch, hold on, just got a message from mdbus |
| 20:04.08 | |Marco| | http://pastebin.com/m3a5eddc4 |
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| 21:14.05 | tae | hi, i installed om2009 on my phone but i cannot ssh to it |
| 21:14.20 | tae | usb0 does not appear, but eth1 does though |
| 21:14.59 | tae | i cannot ping 192.168.0.202 either |
| 21:15.49 | tae | i am using the same command as always 'ifconfig usb0((rather eth1 since usb0 does not appear)) 192.168.0.200' then trying to ssh |
| 21:16.01 | tae | phone seems setup properly |
| 21:16.16 | tae | i will go read the mailinglist |
| 21:16.30 | ndnihil | its supposed to do that |
| 21:16.40 | ndnihil | usb0 is now eth1 (or the next available eth dev) |
| 21:16.58 | tae | ah |
| 21:16.58 | ndnihil | can you ping the device? |
| 21:17.03 | tae | no i cannot |
| 21:17.27 | ndnihil | #!/bin/bash |
| 21:17.28 | ndnihil | iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24 |
| 21:17.28 | ndnihil | sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 |
| 21:17.28 | ndnihil | ip addr add 192.168.0.200/24 dev eth2 |
| 21:17.28 | ndnihil | ifconfig eth2 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 |
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| 21:17.49 | ndnihil | that's the script I use to bring up the interface on this workstation (doesnt come up automatically on this one) |
| 21:17.58 | tae | i will change that eth2 to eth1 |
| 21:18.26 | ndnihil | you can drop either the ip addr add, or the ifconfig |
| 21:18.31 | ndnihil | the ip addr add doesnt work on this machine |
| 21:18.37 | ndnihil | should probably comment that out |
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| 21:19.09 | DocScrutinizer | the really funny thing is each FR gets a new ethX, so you're really in trouble when handling with multiple devices now |
| 21:20.17 | tae | still not working |
| 21:20.20 | tae | i liked usb0 |
| 21:20.21 | ndnihil | at least managing ssh keys wont be such a pita |
| 21:20.21 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: or not, one can add as many entries to his network config file on host as he wishes. |
| 21:20.47 | PaulFertser | tae: check your routing tables. |
| 21:20.52 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, tell this to my neo-ssh script |
| 21:21.02 | tae | ah my routing tables are a mess :( |
| 21:22.08 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: a guy on ML asks about "radiation pattern of the internal antenna" (GPS) :) |
| 21:22.16 | DocScrutinizer | ndnihil: I got no problems with managing ssh keys, they are simply stored to dev/null |
| 21:22.36 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: it's a valid question - though backwards. |
| 21:22.48 | ndnihil | doc: doesn't that get annoying having to type 'yes' constantly? |
| 21:23.02 | DocScrutinizer | bah, have better ways to feel unhappy ;-) |
| 21:23.03 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: any question can be made valid after slight modifications, i guess ;) |
| 21:23.21 | DocScrutinizer | ndnihil: I don't have to |
| 21:23.40 | SpeedEvil | radiation and reception patterns are always identical |
| 21:24.13 | tae | PaulFertser: now it looks like this; http://pastebin.org/358 |
| 21:24.22 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: and probably we don't have a decent spec for either |
| 21:24.31 | tae | that virbr0 is new |
| 21:24.43 | tae | might be related to my upgrade to jaunty |
| 21:25.02 | PaulFertser | tae: routing looks ok. Check your iptables configuration then. |
| 21:25.11 | DocScrutinizer | ndnihil: ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null root@192.168.0.202 |
| 21:25.20 | ndnihil | ah |
| 21:25.57 | DocScrutinizer | ndnihil: NO WORRIES ABOUT MAN-IN-THE-MIDDLE ATTACK HERE ;-d |
| 21:26.05 | DocScrutinizer | ooops, capslock |
| 21:26.08 | ndnihil | heheh |
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| 21:28.36 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: still asking about radiation pattern of gps ant is weird, as it's not supposed to be used to radiate anything. He needs to specify the radiation frequency he want to know the pattern for then. And if he says "the frequency used by the sats to transmit the signal" it'll get ridiculous. |
| 21:28.41 | tae | PaulFertser: http://pastebin.com/f39deb2f8 |
| 21:29.10 | DocScrutinizer | waaahaaahaaaa |
| 21:29.27 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, always talking to those nasty sats |
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| 21:31.29 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, it's virtually impossible to digg out that data at OM |
| 21:32.35 | PaulFertser | \o/ ManowaR on my radio \o/ |
| 21:32.43 | DocScrutinizer | and even *if* I could, I wouldn't trust it. After my experiences with self-contradictory diagrams for gta03 GPS-ant |
| 21:33.58 | PaulFertser | tae: i'd try to tcpdump on eth1 interface. |
| 21:34.12 | tae | for what? |
| 21:34.28 | PaulFertser | tae: tcpdump -s0 -vvv -i eth1 |
| 21:37.53 | tae | hmm eth1 is not appearing anymore |
| 21:37.54 | SpeedEvil | It's probably easiest to stick the thing on a record player in a big field, and just measure |
| 21:39.22 | tae | ah |
| 21:39.25 | tae | reboot worked :) |
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| 21:39.25 | tae | thanks :) |
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| 21:43.21 | PaulFertser | tae: reboot? you choosed a way too easy :-/ I saw some strange entries in routing tables that prevented normal operation but they were visible only with "ip r ..." commands. |
| 21:44.54 | tae | yeah i know rebooting is for windows sissys, but im tired and it gave me time to go smoke, and im pretty tired and i have a lot to do still, i want to debootstrap debian and run it in a chrooted environment from the press of a icon |
| 21:45.22 | tae | i finally solved my 'how to run openmoko+debian so i can have all the packages i want' |
| 21:46.47 | PaulFertser | tae: rebooting and smoking -> double failure :P |
| 21:47.12 | tae | failure to do what? |
| 21:47.25 | PaulFertser | tae: failure to avoid bad things in life ;) |
| 21:47.46 | tae | ;) |
| 21:47.54 | tae | i guess it depends on what you smoke |
| 21:48.18 | PaulFertser | tae: for sure. Tabacco is so meaningless it makes me wonder why people still do it. |
| 21:48.32 | tae | i dont smoke tobacco its not good for you |
| 21:49.14 | PaulFertser | tae: i'm a debian user still waiting for SHR apps to become available. I so don't like Zhone but i'm still using it. :) |
| 21:49.25 | tae | i did not like zhone either |
| 21:49.47 | tae | hackable1 is nice |
| 21:50.08 | tae | i ran that prior to this openmoko2009/debiandebootstrap attempt |
| 21:51.49 | thrashold | PaulFertser: Building debian packages for SVN Enlightenment is pretty easy (was, seems to be broken in latest SVN at least for the last week :( ). SHR apps are not a big deal to compile, though I didn't bother to create debian packages for them. |
| 21:52.24 | thrashold | Debian works like a charm with SHR apps that way, my only problem is that after a few suspend cycles the GSM modem stops working |
| 21:52.51 | PaulFertser | thrashold: are you using frameworkd from git HEAD? |
| 21:53.07 | PaulFertser | thrashold: and fso-abyss? |
| 21:54.06 | thrashold | Yes, though not the latest (last pull few weeks ago), fso-abyss - no |
| 21:54.31 | thrashold | I'm using gsm0710muxd |
| 21:54.57 | PaulFertser | thrashold: does it look like it fails to suspend because the modem doesn't answer on some AT command? |
| 21:55.10 | thrashold | Yes. |
| 21:55.49 | max_posedon_ | for many people fso-abyss fixes this issue |
| 21:56.17 | max_posedon_ | but not for all, at least with fso-abyss you will have it not often |
| 21:56.17 | thrashold | I see. Thanks, I'm gonna try it. |
| 22:05.30 | DocScrutinizer | thrashold: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/support/2009-July/005710.html |
| 22:06.36 | DocScrutinizer | thrashold: for fso-abyss: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/opkg-u |
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| 22:08.16 | thrashold | Thanks. |
| 22:08.41 | thrashold | Heh, I also experienced the GPRS issue mentioned there. :) |
| 22:09.01 | max_posedon_ | DocScrutinizer, hi! I suggest add grep on your PKGS |
| 22:09.23 | DocScrutinizer | duh, thought it's in |
| 22:09.47 | DocScrutinizer | find-utils, no? |
| 22:09.55 | max_posedon_ | also, interesting why you want binutils without gcc |
| 22:09.56 | DocScrutinizer | nah, prolly not |
| 22:10.35 | DocScrutinizer | max_posedon_: this is based on a mrmoku work |
| 22:11.32 | DocScrutinizer | first goal was to completely replace crappy busybox |
| 22:12.11 | max_posedon_ | for completely replace list should be much longer |
| 22:13.17 | DocScrutinizer | max_posedon_: any tested augments welcome |
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| 22:19.01 | max_posedon_ | bzip2 vim |
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| 22:31.15 | DocScrutinizer | max_posedon_: I don't like vim, I never got used to the cryptic UI of vi, edlin, medis, and whatever there was around the last 30 years. One exception though: wordmaster |
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| 22:31.42 | DocScrutinizer | and some Amiga-editor which the name of I forgot |
| 22:31.42 | *** part/#openmoko daBomb69 (i=daBomb69@unaffiliated/dabomb69) |
| 22:33.19 | DocScrutinizer | and please don't suggest Eighty-Megabytes-And-Constantly-Swapping |
| 22:33.50 | mmontour | DocScrutinizer: CygnusEd? (Amiga editor) |
| 22:34.06 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: do you have gta01 schem handy? I'm suspecting some horrible thing but it's too late here so i can't trust my eyes |
| 22:34.12 | DocScrutinizer | nah, not sure. guess not |
| 22:34.30 | DocScrutinizer | yup go ahead |
| 22:34.43 | max_posedon_ | DocScrutinizer, )) but still. busybox provide vi, for removing busybox you need vim) |
| 22:35.00 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: page 8 lower side, backlight control. |
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| 22:35.37 | max_posedon_ | and emacs is really good for developing software (for all other stuff I prefer vim) |
| 22:35.55 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: ? |
| 22:36.22 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i can't see how it disables backlight. |
| 22:36.27 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: ooooooucccch |
| 22:36.33 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 22:36.49 | DocScrutinizer | THAT IS *BAD* |
| 22:37.15 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: does it really simply shunt BL by connecting VB to ground via 22R ? |
| 22:37.22 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i can't believe that |
| 22:37.29 | DocScrutinizer | we only can hope the Vfwd of the some 10 LED is much higher than Vbat |
| 22:38.02 | DocScrutinizer | nah |
| 22:38.27 | DocScrutinizer | that's a push-converter |
| 22:38.44 | DocScrutinizer | it pulls thru L6001 |
| 22:38.57 | DocScrutinizer | via U6001:1 |
| 22:39.16 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: ok, gotta read the datasheet. |
| 22:39.22 | DocScrutinizer | then cuts this path, and induction creates some 20V |
| 22:39.44 | DocScrutinizer | via D6001 to LED+ |
| 22:40.14 | DocScrutinizer | if the chip stops opperation, we don't have 20V but still 4V on LED+ |
| 22:40.40 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i see. Disabling backlight works only when Vfwd of BL is higher than VB |
| 22:40.47 | DocScrutinizer | R6003 is for current feedback only |
| 22:40.55 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 22:41.40 | DocScrutinizer | realy NASTY |
| 22:43.18 | PaulFertser | I wonder why didn't they used pcf50606 dedicated led backlight integrated driver... |
| 22:43.20 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: good catch :-) |
| 22:43.28 | PaulFertser | As is done in gta02. |
| 22:43.35 | DocScrutinizer | pfff, no idea |
| 22:43.52 | DocScrutinizer | don't even know if 50606 has any |
| 22:44.05 | PaulFertser | I'm reading DS atm, it seems that it does. |
| 22:46.23 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, no empty pins on p.4 |
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| 22:48.02 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: GPO0, GPOOD0 |
| 22:48.23 | SpeedEvil | the shotkey diode carries the current into the LEDs - and the zener I guess protects in the case that teh backlight is disconnected |
| 22:48.31 | SpeedEvil | wonders why the 10K pulldown. |
| 22:48.33 | SpeedEvil | Suspend? |
| 22:48.39 | SpeedEvil | or are all IOs supposed to have pulldowns in suspend - suspect so. |
| 22:49.19 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (/schotky, zener) yup |
| 22:49.20 | SpeedEvil | But the backlight LED really does go totally out |
| 22:49.23 | SpeedEvil | so current is 0 |
| 22:49.53 | SpeedEvil | Or at least to current well under 1mA |
| 22:50.20 | SpeedEvil | (As I couldn't see it when I was doing some testing at night) |
| 22:50.27 | SpeedEvil | (to see how low it'd go) |
| 22:51.36 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (10k) that's a big confusion, as every variant of SoC has different pull-uo/down / OC for the GPIO |
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| 22:51.56 | DocScrutinizer | and always mixed, some pullup, some pulldown etc, afair |
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| 22:53.21 | SpeedEvil | Probably going from each subsystems example schematic in the datasheet |
| 22:53.28 | DocScrutinizer | still I wonder how they possibly do BL dim, with this braindead CE |
| 22:53.40 | SpeedEvil | What's wrong with it? |
| 22:53.48 | SpeedEvil | I'm not seeing anything fundamentally wrong. |
| 22:53.50 | DocScrutinizer | PWM? |
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| 22:54.03 | SpeedEvil | So? |
| 22:54.15 | SpeedEvil | PWM is standard in most stuff. |
| 22:54.15 | DocScrutinizer | I just wonder |
| 22:54.37 | SpeedEvil | It's not perhaps optimal, and you can get an extra few % brightness by doing it non PWM |
| 22:54.53 | DocScrutinizer | well PWM has to be considerably lower freq than converter |
| 22:55.18 | SpeedEvil | I hven't read the datasheet of the converter |
| 22:55.21 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: judging by pmu register dump it looks like LCM3.3 is still supplied even after the display is blanked. |
| 22:55.22 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise you get aliasing |
| 22:55.39 | SpeedEvil | But you won't typically |
| 22:55.48 | SpeedEvil | and that's a 10uH inductor, so ... |
| 22:55.58 | DocScrutinizer | yupyup |
| 22:56.07 | SpeedEvil | LCM power is maybe 100mA @3.3 |
| 22:56.09 | DocScrutinizer | as I told: just wondering |
| 22:56.39 | SpeedEvil | So that'll have a duty cycle of on maybe 80% of the time |
| 22:57.14 | SpeedEvil | to rise to 200mA with 3.3V across it is... |
| 22:57.25 | SpeedEvil | about I think 60KHz |
| 22:57.32 | SpeedEvil | IIRC the PWM is about 1KHz |
| 22:57.44 | SpeedEvil | and partial cycles in this case won't really matter at all |
| 22:57.44 | DocScrutinizer | k, so no problem |
| 22:57.54 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 22:57.56 | SpeedEvil | as all that happens is that you get less stored energy in the inductor |
| 22:58.13 | SpeedEvil | and it either makes the LED glow or not with that last little bit - there is nothing really bad |
| 22:58.51 | SpeedEvil | The 'right' way to do this would be to have a proper smooth DC supply - which may get 20% more brightness out for the same input current. |
| 22:59.01 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, an aliasing of amplitude 1.3% isn't perceptable |
| 22:59.03 | SpeedEvil | oops - missed the cap |
| 22:59.29 | SpeedEvil | also - it isn't a very stable osc. |
| 22:59.55 | DocScrutinizer | and we have a current feedback FB anyway |
| 23:00.05 | SpeedEvil | It will - guessing - turn offf when the current through sw rises abbove a threshold |
| 23:00.21 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 23:00.54 | SpeedEvil | And as it isn't very stable, you'll never actually see aliasing. |
| 23:01.08 | DocScrutinizer | and threshold usually adjusted to meet current on shunt sensed via FB |
| 23:01.26 | SpeedEvil | LCM3.3 is to the panel? |
| 23:01.45 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 23:01.52 | SpeedEvil | prolly with a max to protect the chip, and when that 1uF is charging |
| 23:02.15 | *** join/#openmoko ecloud_work (n=srutledg@gw.autoxray.com) |
| 23:02.19 | DocScrutinizer | LPVDD of PMU |
| 23:03.56 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: LPVDD should powerdown, same we (hopefully) got on 02 meanwhile |
| 23:04.46 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i'm not sure i see it on gta02. /* lcm enabled if GPIO1 = H */ (that's connected to PWREN) |
| 23:05.24 | SpeedEvil | Chamber pressure is probably to ensure breakdown of some of the less volatile species mentioned |
| 23:05.26 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 23:06.03 | DocScrutinizer | wtf? Andy bragged "I implemented this 2 weeks ago" when I suggested to power down LCM via PMU in Dec'08 |
| 23:07.21 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, need to try get some burger now. |
| 23:07.23 | DocScrutinizer | bbl |
| 23:07.28 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i'm not sure, i'm looking at my pmu registers. |
| 23:08.19 | PaulFertser | Heh, LCM works even without power supply, some parasitic is enough. Though it looks "flakey". |
| 23:08.29 | Windsurfer619 | How often do you guys need to reboot your freerunners? |
| 23:09.01 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (i=ruoso@189.97.240.27) |
| 23:09.06 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: that's exactly what I suspected to be root cause of WSOD |
| 23:09.21 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i think it's turned off in suspend though. |
| 23:09.35 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i'm currently investigating display blanking behaviour. |
| 23:10.11 | DocScrutinizer | I'll probably going to pimp one device with power-good-LEDs on *all* supply rails |
| 23:10.32 | DocScrutinizer | incl mic-bias ;-) |
| 23:11.14 | *** join/#openmoko sigius (n=sigius@93-125-185-45.dsl.alice.nl) |
| 23:11.21 | DocScrutinizer | cya |
| 23:11.30 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (i=jd@modemcable178.248-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
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| 23:12.31 | SpeedEvil | looks at HellDragon. |
| 23:13.08 | DocScrutinizer | wtf is helldragon? |
| 23:13.35 | SpeedEvil | recognises the nick from #freenode-social. |
| 23:13.47 | SpeedEvil | He's also popped in 3 or 4 times over the debacle. |
| 23:14.08 | SpeedEvil | ^h^h^h^hglorious history of openmoko. |
| 23:14.40 | SpeedEvil | Catalytic pimps have disadvantages. |
| 23:14.41 | SpeedEvil | oops |
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