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| 00:11.17 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03werner * r5115 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (18 files in 3 dirs): |
| 00:11.17 | CIA-53 | openmoko: Integrated Rene's recent components: |
| 00:11.17 | CIA-53 | openmoko: - added new components to the merged lib |
| 00:11.17 | CIA-53 | openmoko: - added new components to the expanded view, which has new sheets BT and WLAN |
| 00:11.17 | CIA-53 | openmoko: - added sheet name to each sheet |
| 00:11.18 | CIA-53 | openmoko: - added real names to STATUS |
| 00:14.47 | KungFuJesus | Hello, my mediaplayer is not working on 2008.12, is there a way to make it work? |
| 00:16.53 | mwester | I suppose you could try threatening it. It worked for Obama. |
| 00:18.19 | mwester | But if that fails, then perhaps you m ight offer some additional specifics on the nature of the failure, so that someone might be able to offer specific and more useful suggestions. :p |
| 00:20.44 | KungFuJesus | well I installed omplayer2, but it complains about gstreamer plugins |
| 00:20.55 | KungFuJesus | pulseaudio doesn't exist on 2008.12, so.... |
| 00:21.27 | KungFuJesus | I'm guessing that omplayer2 is deprecated, however "mediaplayer" in the repo doesn't seem to work either, and the interface looks more dated than omplayer2 |
| 00:24.18 | mwester | I don't use any of the OM distros -- OM blew it big time with those, and OM2008.12 is obsolete and no longer supported. But to make matters worse, OM got threatened by one of those patent trolls, and had to remove all traces of various media codecs from the distro. Gstreamer plugins were among the victims. |
| 00:25.02 | mwester | AFAIK nobody is working on that old distro, so "dated" is a good term to describe everything! |
| 00:25.26 | KungFuJesus | well 2009 has the poorest interface I've ever worked with, and it's ridiculously slow and unresponsive |
| 00:26.29 | mwester | And the 2007.x distro was killed by OM politics, but it had the most promise of anything OM has done. |
| 00:26.44 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 00:26.46 | mwester | So logic would suggest that you'll have to switch to one of the current distros. |
| 00:26.57 | SpeedEvil | 2007.x was actually almost working. |
| 00:27.00 | mwester | They may not be ready, but at least they have hope. OM has none. |
| 00:27.10 | SpeedEvil | It could send and recieve calls and SMS - for me. |
| 00:27.19 | KungFuJesus | I never got to installing SHR, a lot of people were saying that the recent builds were broken |
| 00:27.43 | KungFuJesus | I've been thinking about hackable.1 |
| 00:27.59 | KungFuJesus | android doesn't support resume on GSM events as far as I know |
| 00:28.21 | mwester | SHR is a work-in-progress. Some of the builds will be great; many will be broken. You just have to pick one that works. Avoid SHR-testing, that's almost always broken. Most of the "SHR unstable" builds are reasonably good. |
| 00:28.51 | KungFuJesus | 2008.12 had a reasonably slick interface, it's too bad its killed now |
| 00:29.26 | KungFuJesus | will 2009 not suck anytime soon? It had promise, I mean GSM time sync worked, and as far as I could tell it could send and receive texts |
| 00:30.09 | KungFuJesus | Although the PIM interface was awful, SMS looked terrible, I didn't bother trying to figure out how to install more apps when it was that uncomfortable |
| 00:31.09 | mwester | I'm prejudiced, don't ask me -- IMO there will be no OM release that will be useful; OM's management has a talent for crushing anything useful done by talented developers, leaving nothing but horrible hacks and wallpaper. But perhaps with the demise of OM, the developers working on 2009.x, if any remain, will be finally free of their management. |
| 00:31.33 | mwester | Sounds to me like you should try the SHR-unstable builds. |
| 00:31.54 | mwester | I really can't understand why you would stick with something that you've just described - that's horrible. |
| 00:32.12 | KungFuJesus | well mainly because it works, mostly |
| 00:32.21 | KungFuJesus | I mean, sometimes SMS inbox crashes |
| 00:33.33 | mwester | Ah. Sooo.... if you had been born a few years earlier, you would have been one of those who would have kept farming with a team of horses, rather than trying that new-fangled thing called a "tractor". After all, the horses "mainly work". :-D |
| 00:34.13 | KungFuJesus | well, I mainly wanted the supported apps, stuff that mainly worked with the GPS |
| 00:34.18 | KungFuJesus | although in my experience, it didn't |
| 00:34.47 | KungFuJesus | it seemed like more apps were written for OM than any of the other distro |
| 00:34.52 | mwester | What I'm trying to tell you, is that OM distros are not supported. |
| 00:35.15 | mwester | And no, there really weren't more apps for the OM distros either. I think that honor goes to debian on the OM. |
| 00:35.17 | KungFuJesus | it's weird, it seems like all of the distro is deserted and no trace of any development |
| 00:35.29 | mwester | That's what I'm trying to tell you. |
| 00:35.48 | KungFuJesus | eventually I have to manually put all my contacts back in, too |
| 00:35.49 | mwester | There really is only Android, and SHR left. |
| 00:35.51 | KungFuJesus | that's no fun |
| 00:36.09 | KungFuJesus | does wifi or media work well in SHR? |
| 00:36.34 | mwester | depends on your needs, and the particular build you get. |
| 00:36.37 | mwester | it may or may not work. |
| 00:36.49 | mwester | but at least people are working on it! |
| 00:37.04 | KungFuJesus | gahhh, why can't there be a specific end all have all working build that does everything the phone is capable of?! |
| 00:37.22 | slaxxer | http://www.qtmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page |
| 00:37.24 | mwester | because OM screwed up -- massive, major FAIL |
| 00:37.44 | KungFuJesus | how well does the commercial distro work? |
| 00:37.51 | mwester | what commercial distro? |
| 00:38.09 | slaxxer | debian gentoo slackware? |
| 00:38.36 | KungFuJesus | no, qtmoko |
| 00:38.54 | slaxxer | try ity an tell us |
| 00:38.56 | KungFuJesus | I assumed that was qtopia based, maybe I'm wrong |
| 00:39.28 | KungFuJesus | *sigh* which SHR works with mainly everything? |
| 00:39.39 | slaxxer | 06092009 |
| 00:39.42 | KungFuJesus | I'll have to do this sometime later, I don't have the time to do it atm |
| 00:40.01 | KungFuJesus | today's build? Is that the unstable one? |
| 00:40.05 | slaxxer | 30 minuits? |
| 00:40.17 | slaxxer | i had to reboot 3 times |
| 00:40.18 | KungFuJesus | flashing the moko takes forever |
| 00:40.24 | slaxxer | not |
| 00:40.46 | KungFuJesus | plus I have to backup ALL of my contacts and re-enter them one by one |
| 00:40.52 | KungFuJesus | that is something that can take over hours |
| 00:54.46 | slaxxer | what for no sim? |
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| 01:04.37 | KungFuJesus | I wasn't saving to sim card, my sim is too small |
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| 01:12.59 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07fso-monitord * r09ce5b2be494 10/src/fso.vala: Lock restarting by command |
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| 02:21.18 | slaxxer | wow clowdy skys an a 20 second first fix |
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| 04:56.01 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07dbus-hlid * rc5f9126071f8 10fso-monitord/src/ (dbus.vala monitor.vala): Renamed FreeDesktop.DBusService constants to SERVICE_* |
| 04:56.03 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07dbus-hlid * r6ac7ca3450cc 10fso-monitord/src/ (monitor.vala phone.vala): |
| 04:56.03 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: Removed subsystems in System |
| 04:56.03 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: Use calls instead of subsystems in Phone |
| 04:56.04 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07dbus-hlid * r404d3733137b 10fso-monitord/src/ (7 files): Merged Subsystem an System |
| 04:56.07 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07dbus-hlid * r931a3d9519c6 10fso-monitord/src/ (dbus.vala monitor.vala): Introduce and use static DBus.Peer |
| 04:58.50 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07dbus-hlid * r5c3af1961558 10fso-monitord/src/ (dbus.vala monitor.vala): Moved PEER_IFACE to FDO.DBusPeer |
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| 05:30.38 | vininim | (slowpoke) holyshit they ported maemo to freerunner |
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| 06:56.47 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07dbus-hlid * r3df27640273f 10fso-monitord/ (Makefile.am src/framework.vala src/monitor.vala): Restart daemon by busnameand command |
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| 06:57.39 | dehqan | hi 2 all ,paul is there anything about bt headsets in wiki ? |
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| 07:22.15 | methril|work | 'morning |
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| 10:21.11 | dehqan | hi 2 all ,what is VAT ? |
| 10:22.15 | dehqan | dealer has said "Our price is 229 EUR incl. VAT." |
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| 10:22.30 | madwoota | value added tax |
| 10:22.46 | madwoota | aka goods and services tax |
| 10:22.49 | dehqan | so what does it mean ? |
| 10:23.01 | madwoota | er, the price includes tax |
| 10:24.20 | dehqan | is that mean we should pay tax MOREOVER 229 eur ? |
| 10:24.54 | madwoota | the price INCLUDES tax ... |
| 10:25.28 | madwoota | you live in a tax haven where noone gets taxed on anything or something? |
| 10:26.19 | PaulFertser | madwoota: Iran :) |
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| 10:26.56 | madwoota | they pay plenty of taxes |
| 10:27.09 | Q-Master | dehqan: you'll get a discount of 19% then. 8) |
| 10:27.21 | Q-Master | VAT is only for europe IMO |
| 10:27.43 | madwoota | depends on if the seller is able to sell ex-tax |
| 10:27.50 | madwoota | which is highly dependant on the country |
| 10:28.22 | madwoota | in which case theres likely either an export tax or some other sales tax that gets applied anyway |
| 10:28.40 | madwoota | two things in life you cant avoid - death, and the taxman |
| 10:29.16 | Q-Master | madwoota: i ordered my neo in sweden and got a 19% discount without taxes. all other taxes are implied by the importer's country customs |
| 10:30.21 | dehqan | really q-master? |
| 10:30.36 | madwoota | i'm just saying there is no simple answer to "will i get taxed?" |
| 10:30.41 | dehqan | i'm in iran ,but i have decided to ask dealer to post that to sweden ... |
| 10:31.12 | madwoota | i thought it was illegal to own a gps there? |
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| 10:31.47 | dehqan | why not madwoota ? |
| 10:32.16 | dehqan | see , if i ask dealer to post it directly to iran it's post price will be more ... |
| 10:32.52 | dehqan | so it's better to ask him/her post it to my aunt house in sweden ... |
| 10:33.03 | dehqan | then they will take it here ... |
| 10:33.09 | dehqan | but now one problem |
| 10:33.23 | dehqan | should i pay tax or not at end ? |
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| 10:34.42 | dehqan | what does tax depend on ? |
| 10:34.57 | dehqan | resseler or destination country or ... ? |
| 10:36.47 | Q-Master | dehqan: I think so. In my case it was true. I'm from Russia |
| 10:36.56 | Q-Master | not EU zone |
| 10:37.35 | Q-Master | dehqan: you will pay taxes only depending on your customs. |
| 10:37.42 | dehqan | because your destination was russia yes ? |
| 10:37.53 | Q-Master | but you will have a 19% discount |
| 10:40.01 | dehqan | doesnot russia have costoms for cellphones ? |
| 10:41.06 | dehqan | but i think Iran customs cache 40% ... |
| 10:41.30 | dehqan | anyone knows about sweden customs ? |
| 10:44.30 | Q-Master | dehqan: sweden customs will not tax you |
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| 10:45.21 | Q-Master | dehqan: you will have a summ-19%+yourlocaltax |
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| 10:51.57 | dehqan | qmaster tanx see ,destenation is sweden ,so what does localtax mean ? |
| 10:52.32 | dehqan | so why belgium dealer said "you should pay 21% VAT" ? |
| 10:56.31 | Q-Master | if the dest is swe you'll pay the VAT |
| 10:56.38 | Q-Master | sweden is in EU |
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| 12:37.37 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07zhone * rd654b3d15500 10/src/zhone: zhone: always use software_x11 evas engine |
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| 12:48.06 | rwhitby | mickey_away: so are we going to see freesmartphone on the newly root-accessed Palm Pre? ;-) |
| 12:48.19 | mickey_away | :D |
| 12:48.25 | mickey_away | sure thing... |
| 12:48.30 | mickey_away | ... if someone sponsors such a device to us :) |
| 12:48.40 | mickey_away | thanks for the headsup, btw. |
| 12:48.42 | mickey_away | amazing news |
| 12:49.04 | Ainulindale | what, what what? |
| 12:49.12 | mickey_away | root on Palm Pre |
| 12:49.14 | rwhitby | Ainulindale: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals.txt |
| 12:49.17 | mickey_away | and Palm Pre using OE, btw. |
| 12:49.21 | SpeedEvil | rooted - or root given away officially? |
| 12:49.30 | rwhitby | I created an IRC channel, invited the right people, and we got root :-) |
| 12:49.58 | Ainulindale | What's palm pre anyway? |
| 12:50.10 | Ainulindale | <= retard |
| 12:51.14 | mickey_away | { android | iphone } killer |
| 12:51.17 | mickey_away | aka... |
| 12:51.20 | mickey_away | the last chance of Palm |
| 12:51.22 | mickey_away | :) |
| 12:51.42 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03werner * r5116 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/STATUS: Andre reviewed atr0610. |
| 12:52.37 | Ainulindale | Oh I see |
| 12:53.14 | Ainulindale | Well if you can have extra devices I'm interested in that as well for SHR :-p |
| 12:53.37 | mickey_away | sure thing |
| 12:53.51 | mickey_away | we need to make our work more broadly accessible / useful |
| 12:54.05 | mickey_away | that's btw. why i'm still hoping for openezx and htclinux |
| 12:54.36 | rwhitby | mickey_away: Palm's Senior Director of Core OS software is in the channel, and said that the folks at Palm were watching the live irc logs and having a great time seeing the rooting in real time :-) |
| 12:54.52 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 12:54.58 | SpeedEvil | Rooting sucks. |
| 12:55.08 | SpeedEvil | wants actually open stuff. |
| 12:55.14 | mickey_away | rwhitby: hehe, fun |
| 12:55.27 | xcasex | oh wait openmoko went south? i guess that's what you get when you want to use an interpreted language for core os functionality :p5 |
| 12:55.39 | mickey_away | xcasex: *yawn* |
| 12:55.40 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: note that it has all been done without breaking any NDAs or software license agreements, and with all publicly available files and info. |
| 12:56.00 | rwhitby | it's pretty much as if palm wanted it to happen |
| 12:56.03 | xcasex | mickey_away: yawn away, we bought several devices, i'm not bitter :p |
| 12:56.06 | alphaone | mickey_away: spambait |
| 12:56.36 | alphaone | rwhitby: Could be the case |
| 12:57.11 | mickey_away | I'm allergic to random unfounded python bashing, that's all |
| 12:57.14 | mickey_away | *shrug* |
| 12:57.35 | mickey_away | help us with the Vala port, if you care |
| 12:59.29 | xcasex | well to me, it would be more useful to focus on the os development to have basic phone functionality instead of having just a random pda w. sms capabilities. |
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| 13:01.05 | mickey_away | indeed |
| 13:01.11 | mickey_away | that's what the FSO team is doing |
| 13:01.26 | mickey_away | we don't work on apps though |
| 13:01.51 | mickey_away | perhaps we should... |
| 13:02.01 | mickey_away | votes for 48h days |
| 13:02.05 | xcasex | focus ;) |
| 13:02.11 | xcasex | heh i vote for 92h days |
| 13:02.26 | xcasex | 3 kids, two corps. a wife. |
| 13:02.30 | xcasex | do the math ;) |
| 13:03.04 | mickey_away | :) |
| 13:03.09 | SpeedEvil | rwhitby: But 'not breaking licene agreements' != open - and 'the devs wanted it to happen' vs 'it's company policy to be open , and the next version won't close the holes... |
| 13:04.00 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: agreed |
| 13:15.04 | PaulFertser | rwhitby: was it in fact rooting or palm just silently released a necessary tool for root access from host? |
| 13:15.43 | rwhitby | PaulFertser: some investigation was needed to find the easter egg to get into dev mode, then the tools were pretty much there from that point. |
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| 13:16.12 | rwhitby | the tools were in their recovery tool .jar file. |
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| 13:17.47 | PaulFertser | rwhitby: i understood that from the log (except that it was tricky to get to dev mode), just asked to be sure. |
| 13:19.31 | rwhitby | is there a semantic difference that I'm unaware of? |
| 13:19.44 | rwhitby | (rooting, vs what was done here)? |
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| 13:21.17 | PaulFertser | rwhitby: hm, if something is almost directly supported by vendor it's not rooting. Making a goldcard for european G1 was rooting. This one doesn't look like it to me. Probably i'm wrong. |
| 13:22.31 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03werner * r5117 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (components/STATUS expanded/cards.sch): |
| 13:22.31 | CIA-53 | openmoko: Andre reviewed the SD/SIM connector smsn16. |
| 13:22.31 | CIA-53 | openmoko: Added a remark that we name each ground pad separately, like Openmoko |
| 13:22.31 | CIA-53 | openmoko: did. |
| 13:24.00 | rwhitby | PaulFertser: I'm very sure that Palm has made a management decision to make it easy. This couldn't have happened (including the Senior Director of Core OS chatting in the webos-internals channel) if that wasn't the case (IMHO) |
| 13:25.01 | PaulFertser | rwhitby: that's why to me it looks like "cool, we have an access thanks to the company decision" as opposed to "we finaly fucked the damn thing and got root". |
| 13:25.50 | rwhitby | right. the end result is the same, and no prima donna's formed in the process :-) |
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| 14:16.24 | BBishop | can the voice input/output be tampered with by software ? |
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| 14:16.48 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:16.59 | SpeedEvil | you can connect the GSM module to the soundcard |
| 14:17.11 | SpeedEvil | Or in principle do voice changing stuff |
| 14:17.22 | SpeedEvil | software do do this is of course not there yet |
| 14:17.30 | BBishop | yeah .. |
| 14:17.33 | BBishop | I was thinking more about some encryption ... |
| 14:17.39 | BBishop | and decryption on the other moko end |
| 14:18.16 | BBishop | and the other way around |
| 14:19.15 | BBishop | would the cpu support this for some realtime operations ? |
| 14:19.33 | SpeedEvil | The CPU is no problem |
| 14:19.52 | SpeedEvil | the problem is you can't encrypt over the GSM interface as voice |
| 14:19.52 | BBishop | so .. it can be done then :) great .. |
| 14:19.59 | BBishop | ow |
| 14:20.15 | SpeedEvil | as the GSM voice codec intentionally throws away anything that cannot be reproduced by the human voice. |
| 14:20.19 | BBishop | it's filtering the voice, huh ? |
| 14:20.21 | BBishop | :/ |
| 14:20.33 | BBishop | damn |
| 14:21.04 | SpeedEvil | GPRS has a 1-2 second delay, and circuit switched data takes a while to come on, and is expensive and some carriers don't allow it, and you have to get it enabled for your SIM. |
| 14:21.30 | BBishop | yeah |
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| 14:22.38 | SpeedEvil | You can in theory get 1.3kbps over GSM-voice - but this involced heroic efforts. Basically - a simulated data-driven voice-box into the GSM, and a 'speech recognition' thing ont he other end |
| 14:22.49 | SpeedEvil | kbits |
| 14:23.20 | BBishop | I was thinking of a way in math to transform the encrypted voice into voice ... |
| 14:24.07 | SpeedEvil | You can't do that and make it secure unfortunately. |
| 14:24.17 | SpeedEvil | Unless you're going to a low-bitratee codec, and the above. |
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| 14:24.39 | SpeedEvil | (Or rather - nobody in the history of encryption has comee up with a scheme to do that - if you can - great! |
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| 14:25.14 | BBishop | hmmm .. :) it sounds easy in my head ! :)) |
| 14:26.14 | SpeedEvil | Problem is that a fundamental desirable propertyy of encryption is that a single bit input difference causes a total change in the output. |
| 14:27.58 | BBishop | :/ |
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| 14:28.51 | BBishop | so the voice problem is on the phone or phone central part ? |
| 14:29.12 | BBishop | if in phone, why isn't anybody producing a fully open GSM chip |
| 14:29.25 | SpeedEvil | It's the network |
| 14:29.31 | SpeedEvil | I should have this in a macro |
| 14:29.37 | SpeedEvil | Problem is you have: |
| 14:30.35 | SpeedEvil | Mic->A/D->GSM encode -> RF (+ errors) -> GSM decode -> phone network -> GSM encode -> RF + errors -> GSM decode -> D/A -> speaker |
| 14:31.12 | BBishop | and the bugger thing is in 'GSM decode -> phone network -> GSM encode' ... |
| 14:31.23 | SpeedEvil | GSM is designed so that a low number of errors are inaudible - but they do change teh actual bitstream of the output. |
| 14:31.32 | SpeedEvil | No - it's the codecs and the errors |
| 14:31.50 | BBishop | but I could change the codec on both moko ends |
| 14:31.51 | SpeedEvil | these together act to totally scramble any signal that isn't voice-like |
| 14:32.15 | SpeedEvil | yeah - in principle - though you can't actually in the existing hardware |
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| 14:32.36 | BBishop | yah |
| 14:33.03 | mihairu | hi guys...what framerate and rendering should I use? |
| 14:33.27 | BBishop | I'll wait for a future version where it'll be possible then :/ |
| 14:34.16 | SpeedEvil | BBishop: what? |
| 14:34.24 | BBishop | to change the codec :) |
| 14:34.31 | SpeedEvil | BBishop: It doesn't help |
| 14:34.45 | Elleo | I'd have thought you'd be better off just using encrypted VoIP via a wifi connection for any secure calls you need to make |
| 14:35.09 | SpeedEvil | BBishop: you've still got catastrophic 'encryption' of non-voice like signals due to the RF errors, and the GSM decode/encode cycle in the phone network |
| 14:35.09 | BBishop | yeah, but wifi isn't everywhere :/ |
| 14:35.20 | SpeedEvil | GPRS and push-talk isn't _too_ bad |
| 14:35.29 | SpeedEvil | So you have 2-3s delays? |
| 14:35.33 | SpeedEvil | Does it matter? |
| 14:35.40 | mjr | it's okay for some uses yeah |
| 14:35.41 | BBishop | the gprs works like crap ! |
| 14:35.46 | BBishop | tons of latency |
| 14:35.49 | mjr | not all uses, but some uses |
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| 14:39.31 | slaxxer | any advancements on 06102009 shr-unstable? |
| 14:39.58 | Ainulindale | new dbus |
| 14:40.01 | Ainulindale | new libusb |
| 14:40.06 | Ainulindale | inclusion of libmokoui |
| 14:40.09 | Ainulindale | new framework & new settings |
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| 14:44.41 | slaxxer | great |
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| 15:28.51 | slaxxer | do we get "DONT PANIC " back? |
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| 15:51.09 | mihairu | how can i set to start program at startup? |
| 15:53.41 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:54.14 | mihairu | via .xinit? |
| 15:54.33 | mihairu | xinitrc |
| 15:55.42 | PaulFertser | mihairu: at startup of what? |
| 15:56.49 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (i=ruoso@189.97.247.220) |
| 15:59.34 | *** join/#openmoko cheng (n=cheng@lzu-trunk-1.lzu.edu.cn) |
| 16:02.45 | mihairu | PaulFertser: xserver |
| 16:03.51 | PaulFertser | mihairu: on my debian it's ~/.xsession |
| 16:04.04 | PaulFertser | mihairu: so, it's distro and config-dependent. |
| 16:04.17 | mihairu | PaulFertser: on my gentoo is xinitrc :)) |
| 16:04.57 | PaulFertser | mihairu: probably .xinitrc? Or are you using a system-wide file? |
| 16:05.26 | jc1 | finally, fix the planet.. |
| 16:05.37 | mihairu | PaulFertser: i'll try both and i'll see |
| 16:05.44 | PaulFertser | jc1: :) |
| 16:06.01 | jc1 | PaulFertser: yes, sir. |
| 16:06.02 | PaulFertser | mihairu: i'd try to investigate my configs instead. |
| 16:07.12 | jc1 | feeds from wordpress.com is the trouble maker. |
| 16:07.20 | jc1 | now should be ok. |
| 16:08.07 | PaulFertser | never read planet om but still congrats jc with successful bug hunting :) |
| 16:08.22 | *** join/#openmoko jc (n=jc@219.85.46.69) |
| 16:09.27 | *** join/#openmoko ZaPPaS (n=moritz@buero2.pi5.physik.uni-stuttgart.de) |
| 16:10.22 | jc1 | need to write a mail to explain this. |
| 16:11.47 | jc1 | I would like to write "the mess on the planet is the result of fixing one bug, and this mess is fixed by killing the fix of the bug". make people more confuse. |
| 16:11.53 | *** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
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| 16:13.26 | jc1 | PaulFertser: thanks. :) |
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| 16:30.37 | slaxxer | yea |
| 16:32.12 | slaxxer | an the time is correct!!! |
| 16:33.03 | jc1 | slaxxer: what time? |
| 16:33.10 | Zorkman | i suppose FR time :p |
| 16:33.27 | slaxxer | be shr-unstable today |
| 16:33.40 | slaxxer | 0610 |
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| 16:49.02 | slaxxer | yea libxaw |
| 16:52.07 | slaxxer | installed a few programs an noticed time was off by 6 hours |
| 16:55.17 | *** join/#openmoko messerting (n=messerti@cm-84.208.182.112.getinternet.no) |
| 16:56.31 | slaxxer | wonder if DOOM will run on it? |
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| 17:04.16 | *** join/#openmoko andipl (n=andipl@chello080109101222.3.15.tuwien.teleweb.at) |
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| 17:07.35 | slaxxer | even mokoconv installed with no errors |
| 17:08.33 | slaxxer | but it wont come up |
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| 17:43.41 | Blu3 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:43.44 | Blu3 | ... |
| 17:44.05 | Blu3 | "this error is not an error" |
| 17:44.06 | *** join/#openmoko MaryKate (n=fgd@nat66.mia.three.co.uk) |
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| 17:49.53 | *** join/#openmoko dos1 (n=dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 17:50.21 | dos1 | hmm |
| 17:50.26 | dos1 | could someone kick MaryKate? |
| 17:50.53 | dos1 | <MaryKate> Welcome dos1 .::.hey babe new site for the hottest male and females around the uk no charge whatsoever totally free chat (( its *blah blah, some site* )) without the spaces xx .::. |
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| 18:02.10 | *** join/#openmoko tim_abell (n=tim@78-86-198-4.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:02.52 | tim_abell | MaryKate is a spambot |
| 18:04.59 | dos1 | tim_abell: i know ;p that's why i want someone to kick/ban it |
| 18:05.07 | dos1 | ah |
| 18:05.16 | dos1 | you've just joined |
| 18:05.18 | dos1 | :) |
| 18:06.00 | tim_abell | no chanopts :( |
| 18:06.06 | tim_abell | chanops rather |
| 18:06.13 | tim_abell | brb |
| 18:06.44 | *** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@95.89.72.4) |
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| 18:18.32 | TAsn | Is there anyone here from tuxbrain? |
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| 18:47.03 | toxx_ | hi! what's the most functional distribution/way to use the neo1973? |
| 18:47.18 | toxx_ | (I've been out of the moko loop a looong time...) |
| 18:47.26 | dos1 | toxx_: i think SHR should be good |
| 18:47.58 | toxx_ | dos1: what about the battery problems? have they been fixed or have they been determined to be HW? Suspend? Does it work now? |
| 18:48.29 | *** join/#openmoko jokerfox (n=jokerfox@178.79-160-145.customer.lyse.net) |
| 18:48.39 | dos1 | toxx_: dunno if suspend works ok on gta01. battery should work i think |
| 18:49.33 | PaulFertser | toxx_: suspend works on gta01 |
| 18:49.36 | thrashold | Suspend works on GTA01 if you edit the uboot command line as it was stated somewhere in the Wiki |
| 18:49.44 | toxx_ | dos1: 'should work' does that mean 'runs for a short while'? |
| 18:49.52 | thrashold | But the Wiki is a mess, so I have no idea where :0 |
| 18:49.54 | PaulFertser | thrashold: or if you use Qi. |
| 18:50.15 | dos1 | toxx_: why for a short while? |
| 18:50.21 | dos1 | toxx_: i thought you mean battery meter |
| 18:50.23 | dos1 | :x |
| 18:50.26 | PaulFertser | toxx_: most problems with power consumption of gta01 are hardware and really hard to fix. |
| 18:50.54 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: how hard? I can solder 0603 and 0402 if really needed. are there fixes available? |
| 18:52.03 | PaulFertser | toxx_: unfortunately, i don't know it myself. But you can get that knowledge if you ask alphaone|gone , DocScrutinizer and wpwrak. |
| 18:53.01 | *** join/#openmoko Trevinho (n=Trevi@host-78-13-109-112.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:53.18 | PaulFertser | toxx_: so far no SOP issued and i'm unsure if any list of possible fixes even exist. But i think it'd be a nice idea to try to consolidate it. Too bad not many gta01 can solder 0402 :-/ |
| 18:53.52 | SpeedEvil | what are 01 battery probs? |
| 18:56.31 | PaulFertser | No idea :-/ |
| 18:56.46 | toxx_ | SpeedEvil: too quick emptying of the battery. 2h max. |
| 18:57.05 | toxx_ | SpeedEvil: and I only know of the still? unofficial cpufreq patch |
| 18:57.27 | PaulFertser | toxx_: i'm asking Werner about fixes atm. |
| 18:58.12 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: ok... seems like I bought an expensive dev board :-/ Well, what other open hardware phone choices are there? Is GTA02 really ok or should I consider something different than openmoko? |
| 18:58.17 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: thx! |
| 18:59.01 | PaulFertser | toxx_: i know that one guy actually uses his gta01 as a regular cellphone. |
| 18:59.39 | *** join/#openmoko plhardy (n=nullix@162.227.82-79.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 19:00.53 | PaulFertser | toxx_: i think he gets about 4h without using suspend. |
| 19:01.02 | *** join/#openmoko alx} (n=alx}--@218.214.199-77.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 19:01.13 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: probably with a long USB charger cable and headphones all the time... |
| 19:01.29 | *** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@192.42.249.130) |
| 19:01.29 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: ah,ok. sounds *almost* reasonable. |
| 19:02.00 | *** join/#openmoko [Rui] (n=Rui@81.84.169.253) |
| 19:02.52 | toxx_ | so... any idea for an open phone where at least the lowlevel stuff works? I can and want to configure high level stuff myself... but I like to have a phone where the hardware platform is tested. |
| 19:03.20 | PaulFertser | toxx_: freerunner is maximum open you can get now. And lowlevel stuff mostly works. |
| 19:03.46 | SpeedEvil | toxx_: That's not a fault |
| 19:03.47 | PaulFertser | toxx_: power consumption is reasonable, especially with suspend that works (well, not atm because of some FSO/dbus problems). |
| 19:03.47 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: no gta02 suspend issues? what's the bat. lifetime? |
| 19:03.59 | SpeedEvil | toxx_: I've had my 01 playing music for 10h |
| 19:04.01 | toxx_ | ok fso/dbus is solvable. |
| 19:04.07 | toxx_ | SpeedEvil: gta01? |
| 19:04.10 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 19:04.12 | toxx_ | SpeedEvil: how? |
| 19:04.21 | toxx_ | do you have an image? |
| 19:04.27 | PaulFertser | toxx_: without using it at all FR can sleep in suspend with GSM activated for 130-140h. |
| 19:04.43 | SpeedEvil | toxx_: screen and everything else off, voltage underclocked slightly, an old version of mplayer |
| 19:05.57 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: sounds good. what are the hw problems? I understand that I'll buy a dev phone so at least the HW stuff has to work. maybe openmoko gets a second chance (gta02) from me, but only if they learned their lesson of providing at least working hardware (no offense, but that's the level I'll accept as a linux-hack-phone) |
| 19:06.43 | SpeedEvil | As to image - it may have been 2007.2 even |
| 19:06.50 | PaulFertser | toxx_: gta02 has three major hardware issues. |
| 19:07.13 | toxx_ | 'm all ears :-) |
| 19:07.14 | milo79 | is the gsm radio for gta02 open? |
| 19:07.23 | *** join/#openmoko enjahova (n=ianj@user89.freac.fsu.edu) |
| 19:07.24 | PaulFertser | toxx_: first, GSM BUZZ. Some shops already ship buzz-fixed version, some not. |
| 19:07.32 | SpeedEvil | milo79: no |
| 19:07.35 | PaulFertser | milo79: same as gta01, fully closed but reflashable. |
| 19:07.37 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-68-122-12-154.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 19:07.58 | milo79 | icic thanks.. |
| 19:08.05 | PaulFertser | toxx_: fix is not that hard, replace one conveniently located 0402 R and solder a 100uF nearby. |
| 19:08.20 | PaulFertser | toxx_: though this doesn't fix buzz for a wired headset. |
| 19:08.41 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: ok.. do the factory buzz-fixed versions allow good headset use? |
| 19:08.55 | PaulFertser | toxx_: the second is #1024. In some cell network conditions the modem continiously recamps if allowed to deep sleep. |
| 19:09.17 | PaulFertser | toxx_: no, only A8 should fix all buzz issues but it wasn't MP. |
| 19:09.27 | [Rui] | Hi, what's the best tracker for paroli bugs? I have a few for all those python wizzards... |
| 19:09.33 | [Rui] | anxiously waiting for an unstable build with the fix for FSO#435 bug |
| 19:09.40 | PaulFertser | toxx_: this (disabling deep sleep) adds at least 4mA in suspend. |
| 19:10.29 | DocScrutinizer | more like 8mA |
| 19:10.43 | PaulFertser | toxx_: to fix it one needs to fully disassemle FR, take out GSM can (easy if you careful), replace one conveniently located 0805 cap. |
| 19:10.46 | tim_abell | [Rui]: http://www.paroli-project.org/trac/ i would have thought, though i'm only just finding my feet |
| 19:11.35 | *** join/#openmoko RedFlash2002 (n=RedFlash@host34-106-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:11.49 | PaulFertser | toxx_: the third one is lack of bass in wired headset. Fix is very adhoc and the idea is to locate some decent caps outside the can. Tested, easy enough. |
| 19:12.01 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: want to see my useless buzzfix? |
| 19:12.11 | DocScrutinizer | seen |
| 19:12.17 | toxx_ | Ok... so except for the headphone buzz, everything is fixable by soldering? |
| 19:12.29 | toxx_ | Is the rev. a8 available, shipping already? |
| 19:12.31 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: are you convinced that random iron is ok to secure the wire in place? |
| 19:12.32 | DocScrutinizer | wonder why U call it useless |
| 19:12.43 | PaulFertser | toxx_: no, a8 is not MP yet. |
| 19:12.50 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@121.246.86.22) |
| 19:13.25 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: because i desoldered the wire that connected buzz-fix cap to the point and then soldered it again using ridiculously large soldering iron. How can one find it useful? |
| 19:13.50 | tim_abell | wonders if sony ericsson will ever support "root@om-gta02:~# reboot" |
| 19:13.58 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: thx alot! so.. when is the a8 to be expected? are there any other 'not-really-minor' hw issues? |
| 19:14.17 | PaulFertser | toxx_: probably never. Or in a year... |
| 19:14.33 | PaulFertser | toxx_: if you need a headset it's better to try to use bluetooth. |
| 19:15.05 | toxx_ | SpeedEvil: thx for your 2007.1 description. But I think I also need something recent as a base. Is there any good distri for 01 which activates cpufreq and makes the 01 'as good as possible'? |
| 19:15.10 | SpeedEvil | Do BT headsets actually work? - has anyone here had them working and made/recieved calls? |
| 19:15.13 | SpeedEvil | toxx_: oops |
| 19:15.27 | SpeedEvil | toxx_: that was also downclocked to 60MHz through uboot option |
| 19:15.35 | PaulFertser | toxx_: why don't you try current SHR unstable? With the latest kernel i just fixed ;) |
| 19:15.38 | SpeedEvil | toxx_: and cpufreq isn't active for anything |
| 19:15.45 | SpeedEvil | (yet) |
| 19:15.53 | SpeedEvil | looks at cesarb. |
| 19:16.07 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: i'm sure jlubbe actually used it. As he wrote some working support in FSO., |
| 19:16.29 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: I diddn't know anyone had completed cesarb's patches. |
| 19:16.34 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: last cpufreq stuff: http://www.mail-archive.com/openmoko-kernel@lists.openmoko.org/msg09366.html |
| 19:16.38 | [Rui] | tim_abell: the thing is that there are various possible places, like the fso one :) |
| 19:16.38 | [Rui] | I mean, the Om one, where they ask for Om2009 tag :) |
| 19:16.39 | SpeedEvil | Or implemented something similar. |
| 19:16.47 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: ok, you're shr maintainer? and the gta01 is usable? I'll try it then... :-) |
| 19:16.56 | PaulFertser | toxx_: no, i'm not a developer of anything |
| 19:17.10 | PaulFertser | toxx_: and i don't own gta01. |
| 19:17.12 | SpeedEvil | Ah - right. Mum was in hospice at that point, I wasn't tracking much of anything. |
| 19:17.23 | toxx_ | SpeedEvil: ok, 60Mhz is really slow, thats about 1/3 the nominal clock isn't it? |
| 19:17.39 | SpeedEvil | toxx_: yes |
| 19:17.44 | tim_abell | [Rui]: that #435 is a killer bug. |
| 19:17.52 | tim_abell | http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/435 |
| 19:18.06 | toxx_ | so... is there cpufreq scaling for gta02? or is full speed, always acceptable? |
| 19:18.11 | tim_abell | my gf was not happy after she'd tried to call me 6 times on it |
| 19:18.30 | PaulFertser | toxx_: but SHR cares about gta01. And i care (sometimes) about some kernel bugs. So any decent reports are welcome. |
| 19:18.40 | PaulFertser | toxx_: see my link wrt cpufreq. |
| 19:18.57 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.153.235.80) |
| 19:19.12 | PaulFertser | toxx_: and i don't think it's really much of a gain anyway. |
| 19:19.22 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: it is - with the screen off |
| 19:19.34 | PaulFertser | Without something like zero-clock in OMAP we're screwed anyway. |
| 19:19.42 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: how much are the savings? |
| 19:19.43 | [Rui] | tim_abell: yeah, but I did not have success with the fix they mention in that bug, actually I had to reinstall the development image I'm running on |
| 19:19.59 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: it went down to I think 80mA idle |
| 19:20.24 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: and without downclocking? |
| 19:20.27 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: this was underclocked to 60MHz, with some bus voltages lowered to spec |
| 19:20.41 | SpeedEvil | looks for wiki page |
| 19:21.30 | *** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i577B6D1A.versanet.de) |
| 19:22.22 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - don't find it. From memory 200mA - screen off |
| 19:22.25 | SpeedEvil | I think both at 4V |
| 19:22.42 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: wow, then it's a really decent saving. |
| 19:22.57 | SpeedEvil | Also - 12MHz is available - though not with USB |
| 19:23.05 | SpeedEvil | Which is a pity |
| 19:24.58 | *** part/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-68-122-12-154.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 19:25.25 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management#Approximate_power_draw_of_various_subsystems |
| 19:25.34 | SpeedEvil | and scroll down a little to measured results |
| 19:25.56 | dos1 | is that cpufreq in andy-tracking? |
| 19:26.51 | toxx_ | PaulFertser, SpeedEvil: ok, thank you for all your explanations. I'll try SHR and see how far I can get. I must admit that I do not have high expectations on battery run time and GSM functionality (the core parts of a phone, after all...). Unfortunately, I think that without a HW/lowlevel-wise working setup, I'll rather buy something different than openmoko stuff for a linux phone. Especially if there is no fixed 02 yet. Any ideas for an alternat |
| 19:26.51 | toxx_ | ive? |
| 19:27.40 | *** join/#openmoko JadeFalcon (n=jadefalc@156-104.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 19:28.11 | dos1 | toxx_: no fixed 02? |
| 19:28.14 | SpeedEvil | I could say 'I've had my GTA01 running on battery for a week uninterrupted' - which would be strictly accurate - but it was a car battery. |
| 19:28.21 | PaulFertser | dos1: i guess no |
| 19:28.22 | toxx_ | hehe :-) |
| 19:28.35 | toxx_ | my new lead acid phone :-) |
| 19:28.45 | PaulFertser | toxx_: what do you mean by no fixed 02? |
| 19:29.31 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: no fix for the headphone buzz stuff. and if gta01s speaker and microphone capabilities are anywhere near the ones from gta02, i'd seriously consider using a headphone. |
| 19:29.47 | PaulFertser | toxx_: if you're into lowlevel hacking you can buy some HTC Dream or Raphael. But they're not really supported yet. |
| 19:30.14 | PaulFertser | toxx_: hm, i use gta02 as my only cellphone for half a year. |
| 19:31.15 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: how many of people like you are there? |
| 19:31.43 | dos1 | toxx_: me too |
| 19:31.53 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: is openmoko still producing stuff or did they stop production completely? |
| 19:31.57 | PaulFertser | toxx_: about 1000 are using FR as a cell phone daily i guess. |
| 19:32.27 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@net203-187-146.mclink.it) |
| 19:32.29 | PaulFertser | toxx_: MP is suspended but only because there's enough devices in stock. As soon as needed they can produce another batch (at least they claim so). |
| 19:32.29 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: ok, I'll see. what are the cheapest supplies for 02s in germany? |
| 19:33.23 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: how many 02s are in circulation? more like 1e3 or more like 1e5? |
| 19:34.03 | dos1 | toxx_: ~10k i think |
| 19:34.05 | PaulFertser | toxx_: ~1e4, probably 1.5e4 |
| 19:36.17 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: sounds not too bad in terms of available 'mindshare and community support' if OM closes completely. I think I'll look where I can get one cheaply. |
| 19:36.29 | *** join/#openmoko _wd_ (n=wd@82.119.147.190) |
| 19:36.58 | toxx_ | ah, there is one thing still: for om01 there was an sd/mmc bug which was somehow hardware related which caused silent filesystem corruption. are there any similar issues in gta02? |
| 19:38.02 | PaulFertser | toxx_: no, hardware bug resulting in silent corruption? I've never heard of that. |
| 19:38.57 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: well, it had an unknown cause but suspected to be hw bug at that time. corruption occured on the MMC/SD file system and only there. |
| 19:39.38 | PaulFertser | toxx_: looks like the famous suspend bug that corrupted MBR of SD cards. |
| 19:39.40 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: another thing: are the additionals like GPS, bluetooth and especially wifi working? |
| 19:39.56 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: yeah, maybe it was that thing. is it fixed? |
| 19:40.49 | PaulFertser | toxx_: wifi is fucked up. Works with some (i guess most) APs. With some it just doesn't. Sometimes wlan firmware crashes. No real fix for that at all (except probably the daemon to fully reload it automatically will be finished sometime). |
| 19:41.03 | PaulFertser | toxx_: sure, it was upstream bug affecting many devices including OLPC. |
| 19:41.47 | lindi- | PaulFertser: the worst wifi issue is a kernel bug though |
| 19:41.48 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: ok, so basically very flakey wifi. sounds like another major hw bug to me. Is there any fix on the horizon? |
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| 19:42.04 | PaulFertser | lindi-: which will be fixed, i hope |
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| 19:42.36 | toxx_ | what part is kernel (what results), what part is hw? What's the bug in the tracker? |
| 19:42.37 | PaulFertser | toxx_: "No real fix for that at all". Never, wlan chip is too smart and the firmware is closed and even OM has no way to upgrade it. |
| 19:43.16 | lindi- | toxx_: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket//2277 |
| 19:43.19 | PaulFertser | toxx_: there're some nasty bugs in wlan firmware. Will never be fixed most probably. |
| 19:43.29 | PaulFertser | toxx_: the kernel bug will be fixed soon (i hope). |
| 19:43.32 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: ok thanks alot. That's a real showstopper for me. If I buy 02, I want to have working wifi. I'll not waste another couple 100eur on non-working wifi phone. |
| 19:44.00 | PaulFertser | toxx_: you can use an external usb dongle ;) |
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| 19:44.59 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: and break the phone mechanically in less than 1h. no thanks. (yeah, I sound cynical, I know, but with the OM obvious mismanagement and all that, I'm highly skeptical that even this will work :-) |
| 19:45.20 | PaulFertser | toxx_: connecting usb devices works for sure. |
| 19:46.14 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: ok. but a stick attached to the phone for wifi is still a no-go. with wifi i want to be able in principle to connect to asterisk and do voip. even if that needs all kind of cross compilation, no problem. but if the hw part is not working, no thanks. but thank you for your explanations! |
| 19:46.40 | PaulFertser | toxx_: if you find a decent open enough device please share your experience too! |
| 19:47.30 | lindi- | toxx_: wifi was stable enough for me in b8b36e5ec3db71d55d0edf944deec5cc3a33ce85 |
| 19:47.35 | dos1 | toxx_: well. wifi is working ok for me |
| 19:47.54 | *** join/#openmoko amygos__ (n=amygos@adsl-ull-171-228.49-151.net24.it) |
| 19:48.19 | PaulFertser | Guys, it works with _some_ (probably most) APs. |
| 19:48.22 | SpeedEvil | wishes he had more time. |
| 19:48.26 | SpeedEvil | I want to try 01-wifi |
| 19:48.37 | toxx_ | 01wifi? |
| 19:48.37 | PaulFertser | And sometimes wmiconfig -i eth0 --power maxperf is necessary. |
| 19:48.46 | PaulFertser | And sometimes even that doesn't help. |
| 19:48.46 | SpeedEvil | (jam wifi card in place of GPS antenna, add mini ceramic GPS ant) |
| 19:49.07 | lindi- | dos1: does it work after ifconfig eth0 down; ifconfig eth0 up? |
| 19:49.24 | dos1 | PaulFertser: it worked for me on 2.6.24. then it didn't in 2.6.28, while it worked to others |
| 19:49.28 | PaulFertser | lindi-: we don't do that ;) |
| 19:49.34 | PaulFertser | dos1: i know |
| 19:49.35 | dos1 | PaulFertser: but now it's working good on 2.6.29 |
| 19:49.42 | lindi- | dos1: really? |
| 19:49.46 | PaulFertser | Oh, really? That's news. Nice to hear. |
| 19:49.49 | lindi- | dos1: can you try the above command |
| 19:49.57 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: maybe I am expecting too much from openmoko, but if I compare e.g. a good, also 100% open linux dev board to it (like the avr32 ngw100), I get a lot more bang for the buck, and every part of the HW works. |
| 19:49.57 | dos1 | lindi-: i'm using connman |
| 19:50.07 | lindi- | dos1: still, can you please try the above commands |
| 19:50.09 | dos1 | lindi-: ok |
| 19:50.23 | PaulFertser | toxx_: but can you use that devboard as a phone? |
| 19:51.06 | *** join/#openmoko jonkristian (n=jonkrist@224.84-48-197.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:51.38 | SpeedEvil | A big phone - yes :) |
| 19:51.51 | SpeedEvil | ($40 USB GSM, ...) |
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| 19:53.50 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: no, surely not. but I think that this is an example of a company getting their focus right :-) |
| 19:54.03 | toxx_ | SpeedEvil: is there an explanation for the wifi 01 hack? |
| 19:54.05 | PaulFertser | toxx_: sure. |
| 19:56.15 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: also, and I think that this has probably been discussed to no end here, I think that OM basically poisoned the open phone idea. there will be a LOONG time before someone tries something similar again if OM does not adapt and survice. |
| 20:01.32 | toxx_ | SpeedEvil: what kind of wifi card (brand?) do you replace the gps antenna with? is there a wiki page or something? |
| 20:03.54 | *** join/#openmoko |mr (n=lymeca@c-76-24-213-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
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| 20:09.57 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03rehar * r5118 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/STATUS: Review fa2012, wm8753l and 74x1g00_5 |
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| 20:26.07 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: ok, I'm in progress of downloading SHR. do i need a new bootloader or does uboot suffice? |
| 20:26.29 | PaulFertser | toxx_: uboot should work. |
| 20:26.32 | SpeedEvil | toxx_: no - this is in my head at the moment, and I have no time for development. Barring sponsorship. |
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| 20:28.43 | *** join/#openmoko XVirus (n=Satan@41.153.250.184) |
| 20:29.52 | toxx_ | SpeedEvil, PaulFertser: ok, thank you. there is no qi in http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/testing/Neo1973/? whats the best qi to flash to neo? (yes I have a devboard but I like to avoid using it... :) |
| 20:31.00 | PaulFertser | toxx_: http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/experimental/Neo1973/ |
| 20:31.19 | PaulFertser | toxx_: you need to be careful and read Qi wikipage first |
| 20:32.38 | SpeedEvil | has never used Qi. |
| 20:33.02 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: yeah, I did but it said that the above dir contains the files getting ready for release (so I thought beta or even more stable). but instead there are only files in experimental and unstable..? isn't experimental even more unstable than unstable? |
| 20:33.29 | PaulFertser | toxx_: Qi is stable enough. |
| 20:33.40 | PaulFertser | toxx_: and only recent version include SDHC support anyway. |
| 20:33.42 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: qi from experimental? |
| 20:34.00 | PaulFertser | toxx_: (though probably it doesn't work with all the cards, i don't have gta01 to test) |
| 20:34.08 | PaulFertser | toxx_: why don't you try to boot shr with u-boot first? |
| 20:34.54 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: I will. but SpeedEvil said 'no'... |
| 20:35.06 | SpeedEvil | Did I? |
| 20:35.14 | PaulFertser | toxx_: he doesn't :) |
| 20:35.31 | SpeedEvil | I said no to your question on the wifi-01 mod |
| 20:35.32 | PaulFertser | toxx_: it's just that i'm biased towards qi because i can hack it :) |
| 20:35.36 | toxx_ | SpeedEvil: no? no no? ah, ok :-) |
| 20:35.40 | *** join/#openmoko sicu (n=n_a@cm-84.208.86.111.getinternet.no) |
| 20:36.05 | toxx_ | SpeedEvil: ok, so what is your *idea* 'bout the wifi? |
| 20:36.26 | SpeedEvil | As I said above. |
| 20:36.57 | SpeedEvil | Remove big GPS antenna, replace with USB wifi card, slightly modded, replace GPS antenna with ceramic tiny antenna, and amplifier. |
| 20:37.11 | toxx_ | so.. just wild thoughts? ok. I'll not ask anymore. if i one day get a 02 (however unlikely), I'll come back and ask again :-) |
| 20:37.16 | SpeedEvil | Add miscellaneous stuff like power control, and it's pretty much done. |
| 20:37.41 | toxx_ | SpeedEvil: and find the right form factor wifi card... |
| 20:37.49 | SpeedEvil | I have one |
| 20:38.04 | toxx_ | usb stick? which one? |
| 20:38.39 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - I don't have a link right now - zydas zd1211 IIRC |
| 20:38.51 | SpeedEvil | It's a bit power hungry, but basically works |
| 20:39.14 | *** join/#openmoko kvaster (n=kvaster@live.bn.by) |
| 20:39.45 | toxx_ | interesting! |
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| 20:40.38 | tim_abell | wishes all the iphone fanboys who keep showing me their shiny new jails new the value of freedom |
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| 20:50.25 | tim_abell | could someone knowledgeable clarify the status of http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/435 for me? |
| 20:50.55 | tim_abell | i'm trying to use the fr as a daily phone in earnest and this is the biggest issue i have come up against |
| 20:51.44 | *** join/#openmoko Trevinho (n=Trevi@host-78-13-109-112.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 20:52.00 | tim_abell | i read the whole bug and related bugs but am a little lost |
| 20:52.26 | tim_abell | i guess what i want to know is, is anyone working on it, and how are they getting on |
| 20:55.27 | *** join/#openmoko SuN (i=unices@195-241-252-199.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 20:56.12 | PaulFertser | tim_abell: it's being worked on. |
| 20:56.20 | *** join/#openmoko reinouts (n=reinout@s559355fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 20:56.24 | tim_abell | i'm mid opkg upgrade, and i see rules.yaml has changed. does that mean i have the potential fix? |
| 20:56.41 | tim_abell | i'm on Om2009 |
| 20:57.28 | PaulFertser | tim_abell: i doubt it, i didn't see any commit messages. Just try to do (edit file yourself) what dos1 suggests. |
| 20:57.57 | tim_abell | k, thanks |
| 20:58.07 | tim_abell | i should have looked at the diff. doh. |
| 21:01.44 | *** part/#openmoko dwb (n=david@a177027.upc-a.chello.nl) |
| 21:02.57 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.153.209.24) |
| 21:04.43 | PaulFertser | toxx_: still here? |
| 21:04.50 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: yes! |
| 21:05.13 | PaulFertser | toxx_: our hardware gurus said that basically you need to find some 1k pull-ups/downs and change that to 10k. For a start :) |
| 21:05.27 | PaulFertser | toxx_: and that nobody really analised how to fix gta01 and never tried that. |
| 21:05.43 | PaulFertser | toxx_: the guy using it says he needs power every ~4h. |
| 21:06.00 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: this is 1k to 10k for what? |
| 21:06.13 | SpeedEvil | toxx_: how old is your gta01 - what version? |
| 21:06.53 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: for unknown reasons there're some pullup 1k resistors. And they suck 3.3 mA continiously... |
| 21:07.03 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 21:07.04 | toxx_ | SpeedEvil: "model name gta01bv4" on the sticker in the inside |
| 21:08.19 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: that sounds very interesting. do you have a pointer to a page with PCB layouts and exact locations of the resistors etc.? |
| 21:08.23 | PaulFertser | toxx_: earlier versions had problems keeping modem functional in suspend. Yours is ok. |
| 21:08.44 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: clues if the resistors are in cans or not? |
| 21:08.46 | PaulFertser | toxx_: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/schematics/ |
| 21:08.52 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: thank you! |
| 21:08.59 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: no. But cans are easy to take off. |
| 21:09.17 | PaulFertser | toxx_: be careful with the cans. Do it patiently. |
| 21:09.28 | SpeedEvil | k |
| 21:09.30 | tim_abell | what are these "cans"? |
| 21:09.31 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=Satan@41.153.210.156) |
| 21:09.38 | SpeedEvil | little tin cans. |
| 21:09.43 | SpeedEvil | That cover bits of the PCV |
| 21:09.49 | SpeedEvil | PCB |
| 21:09.54 | PaulFertser | toxx_: just patience and don't push too hard. Try doing several rounds of lifting can a little bit from all accessible places. Again and again. And it will get off. |
| 21:09.56 | SpeedEvil | to stop the magic leaking out. |
| 21:10.01 | tim_abell | oh, like for radio shielding |
| 21:10.04 | tim_abell | lol |
| 21:11.19 | tim_abell | Failed to download http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/testing/armv4/Packages.gz, error 404 |
| 21:11.22 | tim_abell | is that bad? |
| 21:11.30 | tim_abell | from opkg update |
| 21:11.42 | tim_abell | i see someone mentioned it in #paroli too |
| 21:11.45 | Zorkman | no tim_abell: because that url doesn't exist :) |
| 21:11.47 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: which Rs should be replaced? |
| 21:11.58 | PaulFertser | toxx_: look at schem, nobody knows (i hope yet). |
| 21:12.16 | tim_abell | is bad in terms of getting an upgrade? |
| 21:12.20 | PaulFertser | toxx_: just look over schematics and try to find unreasonable pull-ups/downs for a start. |
| 21:12.49 | tim_abell | and does it mean my om2009 is misconfigured? |
| 21:12.52 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: ehh... so nobody tried yet? who had the idea? |
| 21:13.07 | PaulFertser | toxx_: looks like you'll be the first. |
| 21:13.46 | PaulFertser | toxx_: those pullups still doesn't explain _that_ much consumption of course. |
| 21:14.05 | PaulFertser | don't explain |
| 21:14.09 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: ok... so power consumption is high for unknown reasons? |
| 21:14.20 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: and this is directly from the OM hw guys? |
| 21:14.50 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: well, I can have a look... |
| 21:15.02 | DocScrutinizer | toxx_: OM hw guys have no idea ;-) |
| 21:15.07 | Zorkman | lol |
| 21:15.36 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: still 4h of uptime is too low even if there're like 20 pullups every sucking 4mA. |
| 21:15.51 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 21:16.38 | DocScrutinizer | there's probably a freakin lot of odds with gta01 |
| 21:17.27 | DocScrutinizer | think about the 60mA tty leakage on gta02, when modem was powerdown - lol |
| 21:17.41 | toxx_ | 60mA? that sounds almost like shortcircuit?? |
| 21:18.27 | DocScrutinizer | really, OM hw guys have nod idea what might be a comprehensive list of GTA01 issues fixed with gta02 |
| 21:18.27 | *** join/#openmoko XVirus (n=Satan@41.153.226.124) |
| 21:18.36 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@91-113-117-106.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 21:19.50 | PaulFertser | toxx_: yeah, that was funny. But it was a software error, tty lines were feeding power to a turned off modem. |
| 21:20.22 | PaulFertser | toxx_: in case you don't know, DocScrutinizer knows what he talks about -- he's a former OM employee. |
| 21:20.56 | Zorkman | toxx_: and he has a +100 voodoo-hw-power spell |
| 21:21.09 | toxx_ | ah, I see. |
| 21:21.55 | toxx_ | DocScrutinizer: why did you leave? wrong question? |
| 21:22.06 | DocScrutinizer | huh? |
| 21:22.14 | toxx_ | :-) |
| 21:22.33 | DocScrutinizer | question? |
| 21:22.42 | toxx_ | nevermind... :) |
| 21:23.02 | DocScrutinizer | k |
| 21:24.15 | toxx_ | so.. back to topic: is 2007.11 really the latest official image available? in the experimental part, there's only kernel+uboot is that right? |
| 21:24.54 | PaulFertser | toxx_: forget about anything official. |
| 21:25.00 | PaulFertser | toxx_: it doesn't matter. |
| 21:25.21 | Zork|Away | DocScrutinizer: small question, can't find the info on the compatible audiojack convertors |
| 21:25.30 | PaulFertser | Zork|Away: or not again. |
| 21:25.37 | SpeedEvil | Zork|Away: look on the wiki - search for nokia headset |
| 21:25.38 | SpeedEvil | IIRC |
| 21:25.42 | Zork|Away | do you know how i can see if it's a good one? (to convert 2.5 to 3.5) |
| 21:25.43 | PaulFertser | Zork|Away: pinout is simple and listed on wiki. |
| 21:25.48 | Zork|Away | ok, thanks |
| 21:26.08 | PaulFertser | Zork|Away: by using multimeter to deduce the converter pinout. |
| 21:26.31 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: well, my progress right now is that shr kernel does not fit into nand. so i have to use mmc. so i have to first reactivate my nand partition with something that accesses mmc. (or i take the mmc/sdhc out, but that could be the last card swap for the tiny fragile sdhc slot..) |
| 21:27.03 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: and somehow the official image breaks somewhere. |
| 21:27.30 | PaulFertser | toxx_: hm, i think the kernel should fit into nand. If it doesn't it should be fixed... |
| 21:27.43 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: it doesnt. about 2.3MB. |
| 21:27.49 | PaulFertser | Zork|Away: the adapter must be 4 rings. |
| 21:28.02 | toxx_ | (for shr) |
| 21:28.03 | PaulFertser | toxx_: hm, probably you need for the new shr unstable image to built. |
| 21:28.14 | Zork|Away | PaulFertser: can't use multimeters on products in most stores.. |
| 21:28.18 | PaulFertser | toxx_: or you can download the kernel i compiled. |
| 21:28.23 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: where? |
| 21:28.49 | DocScrutinizer | kernel>2M uBoot-env issue? |
| 21:28.58 | toxx_ | DocScrutinizer: yes |
| 21:29.00 | PaulFertser | toxx_: https://paulfertser.is-a-geek.org/files/gta01/linux.bin-josch |
| 21:29.22 | PaulFertser | toxx_: and modules-GTA01_andy-tracking-9f3e323de17bec59.tar.gz from there |
| 21:29.35 | toxx_ | PaulFertser: does the modules in the shr fit or do i need new ones, too? |
| 21:29.35 | PaulFertser | toxx_: ah, that kernel is not dfu-utilable, i think |
| 21:29.37 | toxx_ | ah |
| 21:29.53 | PaulFertser | toxx_: i didn't install the tool (mkudfu) |
| 21:30.14 | Zork|Away | is there a lot of audio quality if I just cut the openmoko supplied headphones and connect them to the wires fo another headphone? |
| 21:30.25 | SpeedEvil | Nope. |
| 21:30.26 | PaulFertser | Zork|Away: without bass fix? |
| 21:30.26 | Zork|Away | *loss in audio quality i mean |
| 21:30.29 | SpeedEvil | Essentially zero. |
| 21:30.36 | SpeedEvil | (but you will not get much bass) |
| 21:30.43 | Zork|Away | yeah i know :( |
| 21:30.49 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: have you compared before and after bass fix? |
| 21:30.52 | SpeedEvil | In principle,you could add a headphone amp, and that would recover all bass. |
| 21:31.04 | mmontour | toxx_: If you want to avoid removing the SD card, it's possible to use a small kernel+rootfs in NAND that exports the SD card as a USB Storage gadget. |
| 21:31.08 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: no - I haven't had time to play recently |
| 21:31.16 | Zork|Away | i have a bt reciever i use, but can't charge and play it at the same time in my car |
| 21:31.22 | toxx_ | mmontour: i'm looking for exactly that, as simple as possible. any pointers? |
| 21:31.54 | mmontour | I did it a while ago for GTA02 (give me a minute to find the link...) |
| 21:32.15 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: no, it's proved by some calculations that it won't. If you look at the schem, you'll see there're two R's in parallel to the headphones. |
| 21:32.19 | toxx_ | mmontour: no, stop, thanks, I have gta01 :-) |
| 21:33.27 | PaulFertser | As i haven't tried to listen to the music before implementing the bass fix i have nothing to compare with. |
| 21:33.35 | mmontour | For gta01 you'd need to swap in an appropriate kernel + g_file_storage.ko module. |
| 21:33.38 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: U got 1uF/1kR highpass |
| 21:33.40 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: yes - but with infinite impedence phones - as you'd get with an amp - that doesn't matter? |
| 21:33.53 | *** join/#openmoko emmentaler (n=emmental@10-59-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch) |
| 21:33.54 | SpeedEvil | needs to look at the schematic at some point. |
| 21:33.55 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: they're in parallel |
| 21:33.55 | toxx_ | mmontour: ok... |
| 21:34.37 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: see my mail wrt this from ~15months ago |
| 21:35.00 | SpeedEvil | Yeah |
| 21:35.03 | SpeedEvil | on a related matter |
| 21:35.04 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: 1k to ground |
| 21:35.10 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: on every channel. |
| 21:35.38 | SpeedEvil | Is openmoko.com/org secure, or would backing it up to external be an idea |
| 21:35.56 | mmontour | toxx_: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-March/005135.html as a starting point. The wiki has some info on manipulating jffs2 files on a PC using 'mtdram' and 'mkfs.jffs2'. |
| 21:35.59 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: in this mail I calculated freq response for infinite impedance load |
| 21:36.10 | toxx_ | mmontour: thank you! |
| 21:36.41 | toxx_ | mmontour: hehe, funny, i always read you name as "m.m. on tour" :-) |
| 21:36.52 | toxx_ | mmontour: and now i see your real name there. |
| 21:36.54 | mmontour | lol, haven't heard that one |
| 21:38.03 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. That's spectacularly useful. Download 01 schematics. 'Font Tahoma not found' - and it's all little dots. (eeepc/xandros) |
| 21:38.17 | *** part/#openmoko plhardy (n=nullix@162.227.82-79.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 21:38.27 | SpeedEvil | supposes it's a matter of a new font alias |
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| 21:57.57 | toxx_ | ok, shr booting needs some fixes apparently. late here, so good night. thank you all for your support. bye. |
| 21:58.18 | ndnihil | ? |
| 21:58.23 | ndnihil | my shr boots just fine |
| 21:58.43 | ndnihil | oh he has a gta01 |
| 21:58.54 | ndnihil | goes back to his other window |
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| 22:11.48 | tim_abell | hurrah, my usb0 now automatically gets its ip |
| 22:12.19 | tim_abell | added more info to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Using_network-manager in the process |
| 22:12.29 | *** part/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) |
| 22:13.17 | tim_abell | in combination with http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#SSH_Extras I can now just plug in in the freerunner and type |
| 22:13.17 | tim_abell | ssh fr |
| 22:13.21 | tim_abell | woo |
| 22:13.25 | tim_abell | progress |
| 22:15.04 | tim_abell | is it easy to reduce the 10 seconds of holding the power button to turn off in Om2009? |
| 22:15.14 | tim_abell | it seems ridiculously long |
| 22:15.14 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.93.77) |
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| 22:25.44 | tim_abell | gnight, i'll dream of freerunners tonight |
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| 22:31.54 | max_posedon | tim_abell, nightmares? |
| 22:32.00 | slaxxer | especially for a recessed button |
| 22:32.12 | tim_abell | lol |
| 22:32.46 | tim_abell | i have had intractable coding problem nightmares before. not good |
| 22:33.14 | tim_abell | slaxxer: i have a power button imprint permanently on my finger now |
| 22:33.22 | tim_abell | i might get tatooed in for laughs |
| 22:33.27 | slaxxer | haha |
| 22:33.33 | tim_abell | :) |
| 22:34.11 | slaxxer | Q |
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| 23:53.03 | hipitihop | hiho, is there an SHR specific IRC channel ? |
| 23:55.13 | hipitihop | if not, can someone tell me what I can do via an ssh session to reset the enligtenment engine settings back to software ? I changed it to xrandr yesterday and now it dails to boot the ui |
| 23:55.33 | hipitihop | using shr-testing mid April. |