| 00:00.14 | KungFuJesus | also, it seems have issues, I don't know if it's in DPMS or what. I'm ssh'd to it, but X is a blank display |
| 00:05.58 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178032111.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 00:07.31 | KungFuJesus | hey, it properly syncs the time with my GSM now |
| 00:07.42 | *** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host51-130-dynamic.54-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 00:09.58 | KenYoung | KungFuJesus, Yup isn't that nice? |
| 00:10.55 | KungFuJesus | lol, yes |
| 00:10.58 | KungFuJesus | weird sounds it makes |
| 00:11.04 | KungFuJesus | this interface is terrible though |
| 00:11.32 | KungFuJesus | contacts interface was oversimplified, settings menu is entirely absent, a repo for third party apps is non-existant |
| 00:11.44 | KungFuJesus | isn't this due out in a few months? |
| 00:12.43 | KenYoung | KungFuJesus, THere's a new kustomizer script just for 2009, which downloads a lot of popular apps. |
| 00:13.06 | KungFuJesus | almost 0% color for the interface. No way to determine which SMS's are new or read |
| 00:13.43 | KungFuJesus | sound scheme is stuck on "default", no way to change that, battery meter takes like 4 minutes to properly display. Waking it up from suspend doesn't always work |
| 00:13.52 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@82.201.231.195) |
| 00:14.15 | KungFuJesus | arifacts appear at the top of the display when waking up from suspend and they stay there |
| 00:14.24 | KenYoung | KungFuJesus, I've had no wakeup from suspend problems. Sometimes it refues to suspend, but that's a known issue. |
| 00:15.15 | KungFuJesus | as much as I want to continue to test this, so much is limited in this environment |
| 00:15.39 | KungFuJesus | GSM signal strength seems to be strong and consistent |
| 00:16.23 | KenYoung | KungFuJesus, I think most people find it groes on them. Some of the things which seem to be missing are in fact merely hard to find. |
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| 00:18.50 | KenYoung | KungFuJesus, Switching between running apps, by using the arrows on the top shelf, is faster than any other distribution I've tested, for example. |
| 00:19.01 | KenYoung | Battery life seems fairly good |
| 00:19.15 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:19.27 | KenYoung | Fewer, and much less disasterous crashes than my old PalmOS Treo 750. |
| 00:23.52 | Blu3 | likes the freerunner |
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| 02:09.09 | Psi | can anyone point me to a gta01 image that has ext2 support? |
| 02:09.17 | Psi | the few i tried only do ext3 |
| 02:11.05 | Psi | actually nevermind, i can do it a different way |
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| 02:24.19 | linuxxr | has there been any QTEi work,, |
| 02:24.37 | linuxxr | might throw that on again |
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| 02:33.32 | KungFuJesus | is there any way to convert a rootfs tarball to jffs2? |
| 02:33.37 | KungFuJesus | I just flashed my root with a tgz, lol |
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| 02:37.11 | KungFuJesus | I found the mkfs.jffs2 tool for my distro, what is the endianess for the openmoko? |
| 02:38.24 | rwhitby | armel |
| 02:43.37 | KungFuJesus | armel? |
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| 03:17.35 | Psi | does anyone have a working gta01 shr build? |
| 03:18.10 | Psi | unstable has no sms and testing has module issues |
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| 03:22.14 | linuxxr | we need some kind of zoom program |
| 03:22.41 | linuxxr | side scrolling desktop would be very nice |
| 03:23.15 | linuxxr | parolli had a side scrolling clock untill lately |
| 03:23.27 | linuxxr | parili |
| 03:23.34 | linuxxr | perelli |
| 03:23.44 | linuxxr | paroli |
| 03:26.43 | Toaster` | ok, python. I have an object that is doing stuff. I want it to call another function when it is destroyed. Any idea how I do this? |
| 03:27.09 | KungFuJesus | hmm, this is weird |
| 03:27.37 | KungFuJesus | I followed this to the nose of a backup of mine: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image |
| 03:27.48 | KungFuJesus | yet I still get the weird bitmask error |
| 03:28.10 | Toaster` | KungFuJesus: I usually cheat and use NeoTool |
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| 03:29.52 | linuxxr | everything works but the phone |
| 03:29.57 | linuxxr | haha |
| 03:30.04 | Toaster` | heh |
| 03:30.20 | linuxxr | an it dials an rings |
| 03:35.32 | KungFuJesus | Toaster`: I am using neotool |
| 03:35.38 | KungFuJesus | wait I'm doing this from a PPC machine, does that matteR? |
| 03:36.12 | KungFuJesus | PPC is big endian, but don't the parameters I'm specifying to mkfs.jffs2 force it to be little endian? |
| 03:36.38 | KungFuJesus | ahhh, read the man page, nevermind |
| 03:37.40 | KungFuJesus | stupid taking the default endianess of the host machine :-p |
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| 03:48.07 | linuxxr | what if its a big endian arm |
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| 07:42.34 | KaZeR_mobi | hello there |
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| 07:45.12 | Blu3 | hey kazer |
| 07:45.12 | Blu3 | get your sms working? |
| 07:45.31 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:46.23 | Blu3 | g'mornig |
| 07:46.25 | Blu3 | +n |
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| 07:57.05 | Psi | is there an archive of old shr builds anywhere? |
| 07:57.22 | Psi | i need an old gta01 build |
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| 08:51.42 | KaZeR_mobi | Blu3: hi. yes, it's working now. i've updated the ticket. |
| 08:52.00 | Blu3 | good |
| 08:52.30 | KaZeR_mobi | Blu3: i can't be sure that it's only thanks to dos's fix, because i made some cleanup in my mailbox before applying the fix. anyway, if it pointed a bug which is now solved, it's good nonetheless |
| 08:52.38 | KaZeR_mobi | and you, fixed? |
| 08:53.30 | Blu3 | nope. i'm writing my own sms app. it's not ready for prime time but if you were still having problems reading msgs i'd have shared it |
| 08:53.55 | F4t | who's the guys who work on shr-settings? |
| 08:54.07 | vegyraupe | F4t: dos |
| 08:54.09 | KaZeR_mobi | i'm really interested in trying it. i'd be happy to be your beta tester |
| 08:54.33 | Blu3 | 'k, lemme check in my current copy |
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| 08:54.37 | F4t | vegyraupe, nick here? or he doesnt come around here? |
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| 08:55.11 | vegyraupe | yes that's his nick |
| 08:55.14 | vegyraupe | but it seems he isn't online |
| 08:56.16 | F4t | vegyraupe, thanks... |
| 08:56.28 | *** join/#openmoko badcloud (n=raanan@ti400720a342-0787.bb.online.no) |
| 08:56.30 | vegyraupe | F4t: np |
| 08:56.31 | F4t | Maybe someone else here knows python-elementary and can help? |
| 08:56.38 | vegyraupe | F4t: here |
| 08:56.40 | vegyraupe | :) |
| 08:56.52 | F4t | vegyraupe: yey! private? |
| 08:57.04 | vegyraupe | sure or just join #paroli |
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| 08:58.41 | Blu3 | kazer, grab the tarbal from https://blue-labs.org/websvn/listing.php?repname=BlueLabs+SVN&path=%2FBlueLabs%2FBlueSMS%2F#path_BlueLabs_BlueSMS_ |
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| 09:05.51 | Blu3 | all you need to run out of that tarball is bluesms.py |
| 09:06.19 | KaZeR_mobi | thanks |
| 09:07.25 | Blu3 | right now viewing, deleting, and replying works decently. i haven't enabled new yet because i haven't decided on how to integrate contact selection |
| 09:10.36 | KaZeR_mobi | ImportError: No module named urllib2 |
| 09:12.24 | Blu3 | doh! :) |
| 09:12.40 | Blu3 | that's for the 1/2 done mms support |
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| 09:13.42 | KaZeR_mobi | uh, interesting! |
| 09:13.56 | KaZeR_mobi | i can't find an appropriate package, would you enlight me? |
| 09:13.57 | Blu3 | hehe, what specifically? |
| 09:14.01 | Blu3 | 1s |
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| 09:16.20 | Blu3 | python-netclient |
| 09:17.53 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r03656537b679 10/fsousaged/src/plugins/controller/plugin.vala: fsoframework: suspend async (work around missing async dbus server) |
| 09:21.58 | KaZeR_mobi | thanks Blu3 |
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| 09:22.14 | Blu3 | y/w |
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| 09:26.48 | KaZeR_mobi | Blu3: crashed :) |
| 09:27.04 | KaZeR_mobi | i'm pastebining |
| 09:27.10 | Blu3 | sweeeeet |
| 09:27.17 | Blu3 | :-> |
| 09:28.47 | KaZeR_mobi | Blu3: http://pastebin.com/m4778f411 |
| 09:30.32 | Blu3 | oooh, i forgot i had hardwired that |
| 09:31.15 | Blu3 | :D this is 1 week old, my first steps into python, pygtk, sms, and dbus |
| 09:31.42 | KaZeR_mobi | no worry :) any tip about the fix? |
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| 09:33.31 | KaZeR_mobi | ts = ebop["timestamp"].replace(" +2400","").replace(" +0000","") to change with my TZ maybe? |
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| 09:35.30 | Blu3 | let's see if that fixes it. yeah, i sliced it off |
| 09:36.01 | Blu3 | iirc, the timestamp should already be localized to you |
| 09:36.51 | KaZeR_mobi | i changed +2400 to +0200, but now i get AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'group' |
| 09:37.37 | Blu3 | http://pastebin.com/d38eb0f6a |
| 09:37.52 | KaZeR_mobi | full output : http://pastebin.com/m589c3ec7 |
| 09:38.05 | Blu3 | apply the change i put at the bottom of ^^^ |
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| 09:38.31 | Blu3 | - ts = ebop["timestamp"].replace(" +2400","").replace(" +0000","") |
| 09:38.32 | Blu3 | + ts = ebop["timestamp"][:24] |
| 09:38.41 | KaZeR_mobi | ok |
| 09:41.53 | Blu3 | did it start up this time? |
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| 09:43.46 | KaZeR_mobi | mmm nop, same error |
| 09:44.05 | Blu3 | err.. |
| 09:44.47 | Ainulindale | KaZeR_mobi ? |
| 09:44.53 | Ainulindale | Did you update? |
| 09:44.56 | Blu3 | ok, just after the [:24] line, put: "print ts", the tz info should be sliced off |
| 09:44.56 | Ainulindale | Your bug has been f ixed |
| 09:45.18 | KaZeR_mobi | i'm talking of this one : AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'group' |
| 09:45.33 | Blu3 | lemme look at your pastebin |
| 09:45.41 | KaZeR_mobi | Ainulindale: yes, and i answered in the ticket. thanks for your help |
| 09:46.01 | Ainulindale | You're welcome |
| 09:46.25 | Blu3 | hmm, ok. you have an MMS notification in your messages? |
| 09:47.13 | KaZeR_mobi | Blu3: possible indeed. i have a bunch of binarie messages |
| 09:47.17 | Blu3 | ok |
| 09:47.22 | Blu3 | i'm fixing this bug |
| 09:47.59 | KaZeR_mobi | ok i'm waiting :) |
| 09:51.03 | Blu3 | http://pastebin.com/d57585581 |
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| 09:52.34 | KaZeR_mobi | ok |
| 09:52.47 | Blu3 | new bug, or did it launch? |
| 09:56.53 | KaZeR_mobi | AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group' |
| 09:57.11 | Blu3 | heheh, hmm, ok |
| 09:57.43 | Blu3 | i suspect the url parsing is failing miserably |
| 09:58.47 | Blu3 | comment out from 2323 to 2338 and add: mms_url='' |
| 09:58.51 | KaZeR_mobi | http://pastebin.com/d4b68de4b for the part i modified |
| 09:59.31 | KaZeR_mobi | i have to go afk, i'll be back in 2 hours |
| 09:59.52 | Blu3 | ok |
| 09:59.56 | Blu3 | i gotta hit the sack |
| 10:00.15 | KaZeR_mobi | ok trying |
| 10:00.37 | KaZeR_mobi | ok, thanks for your help. it still crashes with AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group', we'll see that later |
| 10:00.41 | Blu3 | if you know how to use dbus, and you don't mind sharing, please email me the mms notification and i'll make a working regex |
| 10:00.47 | KaZeR_mobi | otherwise, it looks interesting! |
| 10:01.03 | Blu3 | it'll look a lot better once you see the messages =] |
| 10:01.31 | KaZeR_mobi | true :) |
| 10:01.45 | KaZeR_mobi | have to go too, you can find me on the ML if you want more debugging. ++ |
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| 10:26.06 | loveheaven | Does anybody know how to install Michael Trimarchi's android image by SD card? |
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| 10:27.41 | SpeedEvil | loveheaven: first, it needs your clothes, your shoes, and your motorcycle. |
| 10:29.36 | loveheaven | SpeedEvil: My English is not good. I cannot understand what you said.... |
| 10:29.49 | loveheaven | Can you explain more? |
| 10:30.28 | SpeedEvil | sorry - please ignore me - just woke up - not a serious comment |
| 10:30.45 | SpeedEvil | have you looked as to how to install general android images to the SD |
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| 10:33.49 | loveheaven | Then I copy the rootfs into the ext3 partition. |
| 10:34.43 | SpeedEvil | sorry - someone at door - brb |
| 10:38.22 | loveheaven | Does anybody know how to install Michael Trimarchi's android image by SD card? |
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| 10:57.29 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03lukpank 07libeflvala * r8165fc8867e3 10/vapi/ (Makefile.am ecore.vapi): |
| 10:57.29 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: vapi/Makefile.am: add edje.vapi and edje.deps to dist_vapi_DATA |
| 10:57.29 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: vapi/ecore.vapi: add support for signal events (EventHandler modeled after FdHandler) -- now creating new events |
| 10:57.31 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03lukpank 07libeflvala * rad83662b69e5 10/vapi/elm.vapi: (log message trimmed) |
| 10:57.32 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: Layout.edje_get is better to return weak pointer otherwise one has |
| 10:57.34 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: to keep it forever (or put it in HashTable black hole) |
| 10:57.36 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: NOTE: I have not changed Layout.edje_get type to Edje.Object which |
| 10:57.38 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: should be best to do. |
| 10:57.40 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: vapi/elm.vapi: |
| 10:57.42 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: - ListItem append, prepend, insert_before, insert_after: icon, end, and func may be null |
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| 11:11.48 | uhsf | How to clear missed calls history in SHR? |
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| 11:14.42 | TAsn | uhsf, atm |
| 11:14.47 | TAsn | there's only one solution |
| 11:14.54 | TAsn | which clears all the phonelog |
| 11:15.00 | TAsn | rm /var/db/phonelog.db |
| 11:15.05 | TAsn | if you want |
| 11:15.10 | TAsn | you can install sqlite3 |
| 11:15.16 | TAsn | and do magic on that db |
| 11:15.19 | TAsn | to remove the missed calls :) |
| 11:15.58 | max_posedon | TAsn, I'm not sure that it will helps |
| 11:16.08 | TAsn | max_posedon, not sure what will help? |
| 11:16.17 | max_posedon | or phonelog doesn't pick up info from SIM during first start/ |
| 11:16.18 | max_posedon | ? |
| 11:16.27 | TAsn | max_posedon, no, it doesn't. |
| 11:16.36 | max_posedon | bad.. ok0 |
| 11:16.37 | max_posedon | ) |
| 11:16.51 | TAsn | hehe, blame ptitjies :) |
| 11:16.59 | TAsn | (I hope I spelled it correct) |
| 11:18.30 | uhsf | ty |
| 11:18.36 | TAsn | np. |
| 11:18.40 | TAsn | btw, uhsf |
| 11:18.49 | TAsn | if you choose the rm method |
| 11:18.56 | TAsn | you'll have to restart ophonekitd |
| 11:19.03 | TAsn | and verify it created a new db. |
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| 11:29.45 | PBeck | hallo |
| 11:30.14 | Tanuva | ha! navit in fullscreen looks good... |
| 11:30.20 | Tanuva | moin PBeck |
| 11:33.52 | PBeck | hi Tanuva |
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| 12:16.56 | Tanuva | can someone tell me which package contains /usr/include/python2.6/pyconfig.h ? |
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| 13:19.00 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rcc6efe0e28fc 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/qualcomm_msm/modem.py: |
| 13:19.00 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: [QUALCOMM MSM] fix typo in ppp options. |
| 13:19.00 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: NOTE: Given a recent kernel, ppp works fine w/ UMTS for the HTC Raphael and friends. |
| 13:19.01 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r2d056edd3755 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/unsolicited.py: ogsmd: [ABSTRACT] fix reporting access technology in status signal |
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| 14:22.14 | Mononoke | gah the headset sound is too loud on latest shr |
| 14:22.39 | Mononoke | people in 5m range can hear what we are talking about :/ |
| 14:24.04 | DocScrutinizer | Mononoke: so turn it down I suggest |
| 14:24.04 | Ainulindale | That's a known issue, we corrected it, but didn't build it yet |
| 14:24.04 | Mononoke | DocScrutinizer: how? =] |
| 14:24.14 | Ainulindale | Mononoke: If you're willing to install our newest I can give you a link |
| 14:24.20 | Ainulindale | But you'll have to modify a configuration file |
| 14:24.23 | Ainulindale | As it'll hit only next image |
| 14:24.37 | Ainulindale | Alternatively you could also install the oemerge image which is unstable plus stuff we didn't commit yet |
| 14:24.48 | Mononoke | just tell me from where it gets volume? |
| 14:24.55 | Ainulindale | the alsa state scenarii |
| 14:25.00 | Ainulindale | in /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios |
| 14:25.06 | Ainulindale | gsmhandset for the normal one |
| 14:25.21 | DocScrutinizer | gsmhaedset for your prblem |
| 14:25.29 | Ainulindale | ah, yes, headset |
| 14:25.31 | DocScrutinizer | gsmheadset.state |
| 14:25.38 | Ainulindale | (didn't read through) |
| 14:25.46 | Ainulindale | DocScrutinizer: you're doing support now? |
| 14:25.55 | Ainulindale | I thought you only whined and made batteries explode :-) |
| 14:26.11 | DocScrutinizer | ~lart Ainulindale |
| 14:26.11 | apt | whips out his power stapler and staples Ainulindale's foot to the floor |
| 14:26.16 | Ainulindale | hehe :-) |
| 14:28.42 | Mononoke | can't hear a thing now ^_^ |
| 14:28.46 | DocScrutinizer | Mononoke: change "Headphone Playback Volume" in gsmheadset.state. |
| 14:28.54 | Mononoke | yeah did so |
| 14:29.37 | DocScrutinizer | then store back the file, and start a new call |
| 14:31.05 | Mononoke | still can't hear a thing |
| 14:31.21 | Mononoke | gimme some normal value :) |
| 14:31.33 | Ainulindale | well Speaker 110 is well here |
| 14:31.35 | Ainulindale | IIRC |
| 14:31.45 | DocScrutinizer | or (alternative way): use alsamixer (or another mixer app) to adjust control.3 name='Headphone Playback Volume' to a level you like during call, **then, to make this settings permanent, run `alsactl store -f /user/..../scenarios/gsmheadset.state` |
| 14:32.26 | Mononoke | is for the alsamixer way |
| 14:32.40 | DocScrutinizer | Mononoke: (adjust path in above command to point to actual file) |
| 14:33.51 | DocScrutinizer | Mononoke: we're working for an alternative to statefiles, so you easily could adjust volume (and even more easily find *where* to adjust it) |
| 14:34.31 | DocScrutinizer | for now you have to cope with *.state and alsactl command though |
| 14:34.55 | DocScrutinizer | or with editing the *.state plain text |
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| 14:36.38 | DocScrutinizer | Mononoke: btw you should make sure your system actually loaded the gsmheadset.state file on insertion of headset jack (or more correctly: on inbound call, if there's a hs-jack inserted) |
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| 14:37.02 | DocScrutinizer | a lot of current system setups fail on this. |
| 14:39.07 | Mononoke | thanks |
| 14:39.13 | DocScrutinizer | Mononoke: you should do a `alsactl restore -f gsmheadset.state` prior to modifying anything with alsamixer. Otherwise odds are you actually work on gsmHANDset.state scenario, and you would destroy your gsmHEADset.state if you do a `alsactl store` to gsmHEADset the HANDset scenario |
| 14:39.52 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07vala-terminal * r389b77abf44a 10/ (.gitignore po/Makefile.in.in): add po/Makefile.in.in |
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| 14:40.05 | DocScrutinizer | admittedly all this highly inconvenient and clumsy |
| 14:40.25 | DocScrutinizer | we're working on it, sorry for the current mess |
| 14:42.03 | Mononoke | how many people are actualy working on shr? |
| 14:42.14 | Ainulindale | ~20 |
| 14:42.20 | Ainulindale | it depends on what you mean by working |
| 14:42.24 | Ainulindale | the core team is 11 people |
| 14:42.29 | Ainulindale | there are lots of 3rd party related software |
| 14:42.37 | Ainulindale | I was mainly talking about all of the guys with commit rights |
| 14:43.37 | DocScrutinizer | [2009-05-29 16:31:21] <Mononoke> gimme some normal value :) |
| 14:43.39 | DocScrutinizer | [2009-05-29 16:31:33] <Ainulindale> well Speaker 110 is well here |
| 14:44.08 | DocScrutinizer | there's no standard value for HEADset, and headset isn't "Speaker"! |
| 14:44.39 | Ainulindale | DocScrutinizer: Sheesh you're grumpy :-) |
| 14:44.43 | Ainulindale | Let me be out of topic :-) |
| 14:44.56 | DocScrutinizer | it depends on your particular headset, and the name of the control is name='Headphone Playback Volume' |
| 14:45.24 | Mononoke | nah speaker was also too loud |
| 14:45.51 | DocScrutinizer | Mononoke: so please make sure you're editing gsmheadset.state file control.3 name='Headphone Playback Volume' |
| 14:46.00 | Mononoke | did |
| 14:46.08 | Mononoke | its in "usable" state now |
| 14:46.21 | DocScrutinizer | ok, fine |
| 14:47.28 | DocScrutinizer | for "Speaker" (earpiece?) you need to edit gsmHANDset.state, control.4 name='Speaker Playback Volume' |
| 14:48.50 | DocScrutinizer | Mononoke: for actual sounder (speaker aka ringtone etc) you need to edit stereoout.state, control.3 name='Headphone Playback Volume' :-/ |
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| 14:49.52 | usr | hi, does anybody know where i can find a xterm.ipk? which in repo do i have to search? |
| 14:50.01 | DocScrutinizer | Mononoke: (as headphones and ("stereo"speaker share same hw and amp) |
| 14:51.14 | DocScrutinizer | Mononoke: look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_1973_audio_subsystem and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_Freerunner_audio_subsystem |
| 14:54.20 | Mononoke | thx |
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| 14:54.49 | DocScrutinizer | np, welcome |
| 14:59.07 | linuxxr | root@om-gta02 ~ $ alsactl restore -f gsmheadset.state |
| 14:59.07 | linuxxr | alsactl: load_state:1313: Cannot open gsmheadset.state for reading: No such file or directory |
| 14:59.20 | Ainulindale | linuxxr: full path |
| 14:59.32 | Ainulindale | that is /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios/gsmheadset.state |
| 14:59.37 | linuxxr | all sound works except the handset |
| 15:00.28 | linuxxr | try that |
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| 15:01.50 | DocScrutinizer | linuxxr: gsmheadset.stae is for gsm to headset *only* (as the name implies) |
| 15:02.46 | DocScrutinizer | if you need a different usecase, you also need to load the according scenario statefile |
| 15:03.31 | DocScrutinizer | stereoout.state is for ringtones etc to speaker(s) |
| 15:04.15 | DocScrutinizer | gsmhandset.state is for gsm to earpiece&mic2 built-in |
| 15:04.18 | DocScrutinizer | etc |
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| 15:29.10 | usr | does anybody know where i can fetch a xterm.ipk? |
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| 16:00.27 | max_posedon | very common stupid question, where I can take *good* gsmstate file? ('cause SHR's no go) |
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| 16:00.55 | CIA-53 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r7663b2439a4e 10/fsousaged/src/plugins/controller/plugin.vala: fsousage: controller: grab sysfs prefix from config |
| 16:01.02 | max_posedon | DocScrutinizer, I think you can give me a link, after short cry that I'm stupid and lazy |
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| 16:01.46 | Ainulindale | max_posedon: there's a new ipk |
| 16:01.52 | Ainulindale | and a repository on shr-themes |
| 16:01.55 | Ainulindale | this one is really nice |
| 16:02.07 | Ainulindale | we were using the OM one, we changed |
| 16:02.14 | max_posedon | hm.. what I should to do? |
| 16:02.27 | Ainulindale | max_posedon: I just mailed shr-user with the instructions |
| 16:03.50 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-71-198-208-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 16:04.16 | max_posedon | thanks, see now |
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| 16:24.52 | DocScrutinizer | max_posedon: #2121 |
| 16:26.10 | DocScrutinizer | then follow wiki to adjust control.4, control.5 and maybe control.48 to your needs |
| 16:27.26 | DocScrutinizer | max_posedon: #48 *only* if you find you get distortion on loud sounds even with #5 leveled down to very low audio volume |
| 16:28.01 | DocScrutinizer | max_posedon: then go down on #48 from 3 to 2 |
| 16:28.42 | DocScrutinizer | max_posedon: or, if you're used to shouting at your phone, maybe even down to 1 |
| 16:29.00 | max_posedon | ok. will try, thanks |
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| 16:30.20 | DocScrutinizer | you also could give http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/ALSA/ACI a try. It's untested yet, but should be much more fun to hack than *.state |
| 16:30.40 | Ainulindale | DocScrutinizer: fun has no impact! Convenience has :-p |
| 16:31.30 | DocScrutinizer | Ainulindale: fine :-) *.sate is highly UNconvenient, and braindead as well |
| 16:31.41 | Ainulindale | I agree :-) |
| 16:31.57 | Ainulindale | Flash my image, you lazy as! |
| 16:31.58 | Ainulindale | +s |
| 16:32.26 | DocScrutinizer | Ainulindale: shut up, I'm not even here anymore ;-P |
| 16:32.34 | Ainulindale | Tss! :-) |
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| 16:52.02 | Blu3 | #$% the only cute geeks around here are either straight or taken and none of them have a freerunner or do embedded stuff :/ |
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| 16:52.43 | Ainulindale | Tough life. From what I heard, DocScrutinizer is single though, and he loves guys. Mostly hairy on the torso and bald. |
| 16:53.46 | vegyraupe | Blu3: r u alright ? |
| 16:54.02 | Blu3 | yeah |
| 16:54.32 | Blu3 | my bf doesn't have any interest in geek stuff, so it's usually just me doing my thing |
| 16:54.47 | vegyraupe | heh |
| 16:55.07 | vegyraupe | I guess that goes for almost all my "social" contacts ;) |
| 16:56.44 | Blu3 | heheheh, 'tis bothery sometimes |
| 16:56.49 | vegyraupe | indeed |
| 16:57.15 | Blu3 | disappointing when even your geek buddies go "what's that" when you say you have a freerunner fone |
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| 16:58.02 | vegyraupe | hehe |
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| 17:10.08 | DocMobilizer | Ainulindale: though I tend to hate contact to humans in general, my sexual orientation is mostly hetero (the last time I bothered to check ;) |
| 17:11.45 | Ainulindale | Well this won't stop me from insinuating stuff :-p |
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| 17:12.12 | Blu3 | note, he said mostly, not purely :> |
| 17:12.20 | Ainulindale | heh :-) |
| 17:15.44 | SpeedEvil | ponders an LED based comment. |
| 17:16.19 | Blu3 | gallium arsenide! |
| 17:16.40 | Blu3 | it brightens dull moments |
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| 17:18.27 | DocMobilizer | GaAlN |
| 17:18.45 | SpeedEvil | SiC is where it's at |
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| 17:19.59 | DocMobilizer | steel? o.O |
| 17:20.12 | DocMobilizer | oops |
| 17:20.16 | DocMobilizer | nm |
| 17:21.05 | SpeedEvil | 50% efficient LEDs ++ (though not other than blue) |
| 17:21.09 | DocMobilizer | silicon carbide |
| 17:21.25 | DocMobilizer | yeah |
| 17:21.53 | SpeedEvil | Some silly advances recently. |
| 17:22.06 | *** join/#openmoko donpdonp (i=donp@donk.personaltelco.net) |
| 17:22.21 | DocMobilizer | blue makes for good white led anyway |
| 17:22.43 | SpeedEvil | Want a 20mm dia optic producing more light than a normal car headlamp, using 6W, for about $30 - no probem. |
| 17:24.01 | DocMobilizer | c:-) |
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| 17:24.24 | SpeedEvil | and the new ones are so dense that you can pack the same amount of sunlight that comes through a normal 1m^2 window in about 10cm*10cm |
| 17:24.44 | DocMobilizer | outch |
| 17:24.54 | DocMobilizer | hut the eye |
| 17:25.01 | DocMobilizer | hurt |
| 17:25.34 | SpeedEvil | (it will dissipate 1.5Kw of electricity too tho) |
| 17:25.49 | SpeedEvil | has been considering modding his gta01/eeepc |
| 17:25.54 | DocMobilizer | obviously |
| 17:26.29 | Blu3 | prefers blue |
| 17:26.38 | Blu3 | but i'm still looking for blue light bars :( |
| 17:26.41 | Blu3 | nobody has them |
| 17:26.47 | DocMobilizer | sun == 1kw/sqm |
| 17:26.55 | Blu3 | the 10-segment 'meter' bar |
| 17:28.06 | DocMobilizer | tho in infrared i guess |
| 17:28.16 | DocMobilizer | incl |
| 17:28.22 | SpeedEvil | I want some of the new one - http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail.asp?i=1241009226028 - all colours, _bright_ |
| 17:28.31 | SpeedEvil | yeah - infrared and UV are a _lot_ of it |
| 17:28.49 | SpeedEvil | aslso - the LED makers cheat - and pick the white that's energetically most efficient |
| 17:28.56 | SpeedEvil | not the one that looks best |
| 17:29.29 | Blu3 | i like blueish white usually |
| 17:29.29 | DocMobilizer | yup |
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| 17:29.36 | Blu3 | ~6500K |
| 17:30.28 | DocMobilizer | actually in daylight it looks dull |
| 17:30.53 | Blu3 | this cree chip, or ~6500k leds? |
| 17:30.58 | DocMobilizer | prefers 4700 |
| 17:31.28 | DocMobilizer | even 4400 |
| 17:31.34 | Blu3 | hmm. is this rgbw multi on sale anywhere yet? |
| 17:31.47 | SpeedEvil | not yet |
| 17:32.07 | Blu3 | i'll wait for it to show up on mouser/digikey i guess |
| 17:32.30 | DocMobilizer | ~seen raster |
| 17:32.32 | apt | raster <n=raster@enlightenment/developer/raster> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 13d 6h 44m 5s ago, saying: 'i'll drop a mail now actually'. |
| 17:35.14 | DocMobilizer | wonders if it's an adiction pathological to hang on IRC 20h a day |
| 17:35.35 | Ainulindale | DocMobilizer: I think it is |
| 17:35.49 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 17:36.08 | Blu3 | hmm. considering my job requires me to be on irc on the corporate network, and i'm "on call" when at home, 'tis hard not to :) |
| 17:36.24 | DocMobilizer | legally accepted? may go early retire then ;-) |
| 17:38.51 | Blu3 | we run bsd's #2 ftp site and a node on efnet, we've done so "since the beginning" |
| 17:38.52 | DocMobilizer | gotta run now, grab some nourishmnt. So typing will fail next 30min ;P |
| 17:39.09 | Blu3 | so it's natural that we have a corporate infrastructure accepting of it :) |
| 17:39.14 | Blu3 | ciao |
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| 17:40.30 | DocMobilizer | juast typng worse |
| 17:40.44 | DocMobilizer | not away |
| 17:40.49 | DocMobilizer | gy |
| 17:42.44 | Blu3 | =] |
| 17:44.55 | SpeedEvil | protip: Cling-film over keyboard. |
| 17:46.02 | DocMobilizer | kbd? which kbd? |
| 17:50.45 | DocMobilizer | if by any channce I pierce fr ts with toothpick, I may use A7 one6then |
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| 17:59.44 | SpeedEvil | oh |
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| 18:08.33 | pabs3 | does Qi support symlinks? |
| 18:10.37 | DocMobilizer | doubt |
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| 18:17.45 | DocScrutinizer | pabs3: what for? |
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| 18:18.27 | max_posedon | pabs3, I'm sure it doesn't support symlinking between partitions |
| 18:18.45 | max_posedon | inside one partiotion you can just use hardlinking |
| 18:19.01 | pabs3 | hmm, ok |
| 18:19.43 | F4t | anyone here familiar with python-elementary? |
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| 18:22.31 | DocScrutinizer | sure you can, but what's the use of such exercise? |
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| 18:51.16 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03alvieboy * r5072 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/ (STATUS k4m51323pe.lib): Review K4M51323PE - fix DQM pins |
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| 20:21.31 | jonquark | I've written a draft article describing the current state of the software for LWN but they would like some screenshots. Does anyone have any screenshots from a recent SHR Unstable that I could use - I sent my FR to Dr. N. for buzz fixing |
| 20:22.19 | jonquark | (The screenshots would need to be recent and under a BSD style license) |
| 20:22.52 | lindi- | jonquark: is the graphics under such a BSD style license? |
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| 20:23.24 | jonquark | lindi-: For review purposes, IANAL but I think it would qualify as fair-use |
| 20:23.50 | jonquark | (Else magazines would have a hard time reviewing MS Word) |
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| 20:46.45 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03werner * r5073 10/trunk/gta02-core/kicad-patches/series: Add KiCad base revision to series. |
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| 20:56.16 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03werner * r5074 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (components/INFO scripts/mkdsv): |
| 20:56.16 | CIA-53 | openmoko: Added vibrator page found by Rene Harder <rehar@saweb.de> |
| 20:56.16 | CIA-53 | openmoko: Now mkdsv downloads the first data sheet instead of the last. |
| 20:56.16 | CIA-53 | openmoko: Changed "part number" tag (P:) to "symbol" (S:) |
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| 21:21.04 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03werner * r5075 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Added R3113 symbol, by Rene Harder <rehar@saweb.de> |
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| 21:31.15 | linuxxr | isnt there a new testing shr-unstable yet? |
| 21:31.23 | linuxxr | lol |
| 21:32.13 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03werner * r5076 10/trunk/gta02-core/components/STATUS: We can use KiCad's CRYSTAL for X7602. |
| 21:32.23 | linuxxr | so its eomerge |
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| 21:34.38 | rons | I'am so pissed of, I've been wondering how it would be to own/use/modify a Neo Freerunner for such a long time now... I am now going to buy this damn thing... :P |
| 21:34.57 | linuxxr | yea |
| 21:35.28 | linuxxr | maybe somebody close to u has 1 to let u se |
| 21:35.34 | linuxxr | e |
| 21:35.53 | linuxxr | i like the case very well |
| 21:36.21 | rons | not that I know of... (I live in the North of The Netherlands) |
| 21:38.12 | rons | I've just received my payment and I am going to buy it... all the bad stories where keeping me back... but what the heck... all the other phones are closed anyway (not truely open)... even the G1 with andriod is... |
| 21:39.04 | max_posedon | roh, bad stories don't metter |
| 21:39.27 | max_posedon | I'm lucky to use freerunner near a 9month now |
| 21:41.04 | rons | even if i can't use it as a phone... it would be nice to play with as a embedded linux device... (I do a lot of embedded eletronic stuff)... |
| 21:41.49 | ndnihil | battery isnt a huge issue |
| 21:42.13 | rons | no? can it last for 12 hours or so? |
| 21:42.19 | ndnihil | it gets more runtime than a laptop, less than a phone, which makes sense as it falls somewhere in between |
| 21:42.32 | ndnihil | on standby 12hrs is no problem |
| 21:42.49 | ndnihil | you wont get 12hrs of talk time though |
| 21:42.50 | Blu3 | i got my FR a couple months ago. i like it enough to not throw it out the window :) |
| 21:42.51 | ndnihil | from anything |
| 21:43.09 | rons | no ok, but 12 hrs talk time a day would be insane... |
| 21:44.36 | rons | I just nice if the battery could last for a few hours... so I can use it while I am waiting/traveling or at a boring presentaton/party... |
| 21:45.07 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03werner * r5077 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Added EPCOS B7840 (U7603), by Rene Harder <rehar@saweb.de> |
| 21:45.37 | ndnihil | it lasts long enough to use it |
| 21:45.45 | Blu3 | rons, it lasts that long for me |
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| 21:46.08 | ndnihil | I keep gprs/wifi/bt turned off unless I'm using them |
| 21:46.12 | Blu3 | but if you get on the net and you're constantly doing net traffic, the battery will only last a few hours |
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| 21:48.00 | rons | i am now filling in the order form... :P |
| 21:57.48 | DocScrutinizer | standard standby/suspend with GSM of >>24h is no problem |
| 21:58.53 | rons | ok... to late... i've just payed my Neo Freerunner... there's no turning back now.. :P |
| 21:59.11 | badcloud | you a dev, rons? |
| 21:59.42 | badcloud | if not, good luck |
| 22:00.18 | badcloud | I love the fr, but man if it isn't a true test of patience sometimes |
| 22:00.30 | Blu3 | it wouldn't be so bad if there was some decent documentation |
| 22:00.50 | Blu3 | a starting point with a "these are the things you need to do to make (list) work" |
| 22:00.55 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03werner * r5078 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Added U7601 (ATR0610-PQQW) by Rene Harder <rehar@saweb.de> |
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| 22:01.01 | badcloud | yeah, it really is a blind man in an orgy situation |
| 22:01.12 | quatrox | badcloud: why are you so negative to the freerunner? |
| 22:01.18 | badcloud | I'm not |
| 22:01.21 | badcloud | I said I love it |
| 22:01.22 | ndnihil | it's not that bad |
| 22:01.23 | Blu3 | blind, with loss of tactile sensation |
| 22:01.35 | rons | I am a dev, I've read the wiki... I now the work to be done... |
| 22:01.36 | ndnihil | it takes some poking around, but it's totally usable |
| 22:01.39 | badcloud | I think it's brilliant |
| 22:01.52 | Blu3 | the fone isn't awful. it's just the learning curve is a bit like walking up a cliff |
| 22:02.08 | badcloud | Blu3, exActly my point |
| 22:02.12 | rons | the buzz work... the glamo problem... but what the heck... it is a open phone :D |
| 22:02.39 | badcloud | for the average user, it's hell learning the in's and out's |
| 22:02.57 | Blu3 | heheh, yeah |
| 22:03.26 | Blu3 | like, "how the hell do i backspace!" on the default predictive keyboard in shr |
| 22:03.33 | *** join/#openmoko astrocub (n=cloud@unaffiliated/ibuffy) |
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| 22:03.52 | badcloud | or how do I turn up the volume |
| 22:04.00 | badcloud | what's with the headphones |
| 22:04.13 | Blu3 | or, make it work in the first place :D |
| 22:04.16 | badcloud | battery life is like 7 seconds |
| 22:04.28 | Blu3 | i didn't get the headphones |
| 22:04.41 | rons | I like the idea of using ssh with wifi to use my other servers/pc's... |
| 22:04.45 | Blu3 | i got a dev board tho, and i've never had to use it actually |
| 22:04.56 | Blu3 | yup, i ssh into my fone constantly |
| 22:05.05 | badcloud | hmmm, I might have to get one if they stop developing qi |
| 22:05.08 | Blu3 | i would however like wifi to be -on- |
| 22:05.10 | quatrox | badcloud: only 7 sec? Something must be wrong |
| 22:05.16 | badcloud | u-boot won't work |
| 22:05.30 | quatrox | I got many hours battery time |
| 22:05.34 | badcloud | quatrox, surely you know I was kidding |
| 22:05.38 | Blu3 | have you reflashed it with dfutool? |
| 22:05.52 | badcloud | tried with dfu-util |
| 22:05.57 | *** join/#openmoko Flyser (n=Flyser@unaffiliated/flyser) |
| 22:06.00 | badcloud | what's the distinction between the two? |
| 22:06.22 | quatrox | but the average user wants something which works (bt, etc) |
| 22:06.41 | max_posedon | who cares about avg user? |
| 22:06.52 | quatrox | we do |
| 22:06.52 | badcloud | as an average user, me |
| 22:07.00 | max_posedon | I'm lucky that somebody care about me - developer |
| 22:07.06 | rons | a laptop is just to big to always carring arount (while at a party etc.)... but with the FR i will always have a linux box with me :D |
| 22:07.15 | Flyser | Is SHR testing usable at the moment or should I go for unstable instead? |
| 22:07.25 | Blu3 | i meant dfu-util to be precise |
| 22:07.35 | quatrox | Flyser: unstable |
| 22:07.40 | max_posedon | Flyser, I think now oemerge is upstream |
| 22:07.43 | Blu3 | i've flashed it a few times installing my own kernel images etc |
| 22:07.46 | Blu3 | it works |
| 22:08.16 | Flyser | max_posedon: uhm, which upstream and whats oemerge? ;-) |
| 22:08.28 | badcloud | well, Blu3, I've tried several times |
| 22:08.36 | badcloud | u-boot just doesn't work for me anymore |
| 22:08.39 | Flyser | quatrox: okay, can you give some reason or link? |
| 22:08.40 | badcloud | used to |
| 22:08.41 | Blu3 | odd |
| 22:08.56 | quatrox | build.shr-project.org |
| 22:09.20 | Flyser | quatrox: I know the site, but why should I prefer unstable? |
| 22:09.28 | Blu3 | it's better than -testing |
| 22:09.37 | Blu3 | better than -stoneage |
| 22:09.40 | Blu3 | i mean stable |
| 22:09.47 | Blu3 | :> |
| 22:09.49 | Flyser | better how? ;-) |
| 22:10.02 | Blu3 | functionality and feature, stability |
| 22:10.09 | quatrox | testing has bugs that is fixed in unstable |
| 22:10.24 | quatrox | but unstable has new bugs |
| 22:10.24 | badcloud | but aren't there other bugs in unstable? |
| 22:10.41 | badcloud | I'm sticking with testing until shr makes a release |
| 22:10.55 | quatrox | most people seems to prefer unstable |
| 22:11.30 | Flyser | Well it used to be _much_ better, but I thought these times are over ... |
| 22:11.35 | quatrox | but if you use unstable, I guess you might have to flash more often |
| 22:11.40 | badcloud | quite |
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| 22:12.35 | badcloud | I'm off |
| 22:13.09 | Blu3 | ciao |
| 22:13.16 | DocScrutinizer | [2009-05-29 18:09:26] <Ainulindale> DocScrutinizer: anyway I'm confident enough in latest from oemerge |
| 22:13.17 | DocScrutinizer | [2009-05-29 18:09:41] <Ainulindale> If you're willing to give it a try :-p |
| 22:13.18 | DocScrutinizer | [ |
| 22:13.19 | Blu3 | i don't flash, i upgrade |
| 22:13.32 | DocScrutinizer | [2009-05-29 18:10:06] <DocScrutinizer> so gimme a URL to DL |
| 22:13.41 | DocScrutinizer | [2009-05-29 18:10:25] <Ainulindale> http://build.shr-project.org/shr-oemerge/images/om-gta02/ |
| 22:14.37 | badcloud | before I go, what's oemerge?? |
| 22:15.01 | badcloud | sounds intwiguing |
| 22:15.25 | Blu3 | i suspect it is something to replace that bastard stepchild opkg :) |
| 22:15.43 | Blu3 | emerge is a gentoo thing, maybe it's neat like that |
| 22:16.00 | badcloud | ATTENTION! |
| 22:16.00 | badcloud | This is a highly unstable repository, which reflects our work in progress integration into mainstream OpenEmbedded. |
| 22:16.03 | badcloud | Use at your own risks! |
| 22:16.06 | Flyser | shr-oemerge == merge shr into oe upstream? |
| 22:16.08 | badcloud | (README file) |
| 22:16.27 | badcloud | well, now I'm off |
| 22:16.32 | Blu3 | ahhh |
| 22:16.36 | Wonka | if debian just had packets that were halfway current... |
| 22:16.38 | Blu3 | feels slightly enlightened |
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| 22:28.48 | rons | What is the user/developer percentage of FR/Openmoko? |
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| 22:34.45 | badcloud | we can tally up |
| 22:34.48 | badcloud | user |
| 22:34.52 | badcloud | ;) |
| 22:35.25 | badcloud | so that's one |
| 22:36.49 | CIA-53 | openmoko: 03werner * r5079 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (12 files in 3 dirs): |
| 22:36.49 | CIA-53 | openmoko: Added IT3205BE by Rene Harder <rehar@saweb.de> |
| 22:36.49 | CIA-53 | openmoko: Also added the .lib files for the previous components, which I forgot |
| 22:36.49 | CIA-53 | openmoko: to tell SVN about. |
| 22:39.52 | rons | badcloud: nice, u can use it as a daily phone? |
| 22:40.39 | mjr | you can, if you're a bit on the kooky side (like me) |
| 22:46.07 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@pdpc/supporter/active/bluelightning) |
| 22:46.58 | DocScrutinizer | actually you can. doing that for a month now, others for almost a year |
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| 22:52.59 | jonkristian | Anybody else using fennec, the display is massively large, looks like it's zoom'ed 20 + on om2009 |
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| 23:11.18 | DocScrutinizer | same for midori on SHR |
| 23:11.27 | jonkristian | hm, interesting |
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| 23:12.40 | DocScrutinizer | probably those are calculating a standard fontsize out of display's DPI |
| 23:12.49 | jonkristian | yeah, i thought about that |
| 23:12.59 | jonkristian | actually, this ain't only related to font size |
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| 23:13.15 | jonkristian | the whole view appears larger |
| 23:13.29 | DocScrutinizer | s/fontsize/zoom factor/ |
| 23:13.31 | jonkristian | i think... if not, fennec has an amazingly large toolbar. |
| 23:13.38 | jonkristian | yeah |
| 23:13.52 | jonkristian | so, how is dpi set? |
| 23:14.11 | jonkristian | or maybe, it isn't set? |
| 23:14.15 | DocScrutinizer | duh, somewhere in .xfoo |
| 23:14.42 | DocScrutinizer | it it wasn't set, there should be no issue |
| 23:14.51 | jonkristian | I know where to apply it, i am just trying to figure out where along the system the problem might be. |
| 23:19.11 | DocScrutinizer | xorg.conf, Section "Monitor", DisplaySize 331 207 (for my laptop). Together with current resolution you probably get DPI |
| 23:20.23 | jonkristian | DPI=285/140 |
| 23:20.28 | DocScrutinizer | the problem is the browsers actually do it "correct" |
| 23:20.29 | jonkristian | sounds strange |
| 23:20.39 | jonkristian | Xserver |
| 23:21.18 | DocScrutinizer | a 11dot is a 11dot, no matter what's the screensize |
| 23:21.47 | jonkristian | midori is displaying correct. |
| 23:22.10 | jonkristian | in om2009 |
| 23:22.38 | jonkristian | I take that back |
| 23:23.09 | DocScrutinizer | so midori should default to a 4dot or sth, equiv zoomfactor |
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| 23:25.18 | linuxxr | what is oemerg anyways? |
| 23:25.27 | linuxxr | oemerge |
| 23:28.05 | DocScrutinizer | merge with OE? |
| 23:29.27 | linuxxr | well atlease the phone works |
| 23:30.43 | badcloud | I agree with Doc |
| 23:31.06 | badcloud | very akward opening midori and have to fumble for the zoom out |
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| 23:40.22 | DocScrutinizer | heh. someone agrees with me :-) |
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