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| 07:17.19 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 08:00.01 | olegfink | hi, I got a route 66 maxi PNA, which is S3C2412. What are my chances to get linux on it? as far as I understand, neo1973's S3C2410 is almost identical. any pointers? |
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| 08:11.47 | PaulFertser | olegfink: do you have schematics? Information about other components? Serial console? JTAG? |
| 08:12.42 | olegfink | http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/Documentation/arm/Samsung-S3C24XX/S3C2412.txt looks like a good start |
| 08:13.42 | olegfink | hrm, seems ..10 and ..12 are quite different |
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| 08:15.09 | PaulFertser | olegfink: do i understand it right that you're considering a vendor-unsupported port? The CPU itself is not a problem, the other components can be. Really, SoC should be ok. Take a look at gnufiish project to estimate the amount of effort porting requires. |
| 08:17.13 | olegfink | I think I have an idea about the effort such a port takes, I was asking more of what is already done. |
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| 08:53.33 | olegfink | PaulFertser: maybe the question should be, are there linux ports to gps navigators? most of them use pretty much the same hardware. |
| 08:54.46 | dns53 | like the dash device that already is based on the same hardware? |
| 08:55.12 | olegfink | dash? |
| 08:55.45 | ndnihil | tomtoms already run the leenooks |
| 08:56.13 | olegfink | tomtoms are the ones with different metal and silicon iirc. |
| 08:57.24 | olegfink | http://www.opentom.org/Microcontroller -- ah, not really that different |
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| 11:22.38 | XorA | whats up in the world of moko? |
| 11:23.59 | dns53 | whatever direction the accelerometers say |
| 11:24.21 | XorA | thats always gonna be a disaster :-) |
| 11:24.43 | dns53 | fso seems to be getting there |
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| 11:31.52 | XorA | I see the kernel kinda stalled at 2.6.29 rc3 |
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| 11:42.59 | trupheenix | i'm trying to connect to my freerunner on debian lenny. when i do lsusb, the phone isn't listed. any help? |
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| 11:44.53 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:45.14 | SpeedEvil | It won't show up as 'freerunner' typically |
| 11:45.28 | SpeedEvil | but a usb ethernet device |
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| 11:46.14 | trupheenix | SpeedEvil: i have turned on the phone. i used to use Ubunty Hardy on which it was working. |
| 11:47.03 | trupheenix | SpeedEvil: now i'm trying it out on Debian Lenny |
| 11:47.16 | lord-carlos | works for me on debian testing |
| 11:47.28 | lord-carlos | but as eth1 |
| 11:48.46 | trupheenix | lord-carlos: ok... i have a very bare bones installation of lenny. so am i missing any packages? |
| 11:48.58 | SpeedEvil | Ok - if it isn't showing up on lsusb - you have other problems |
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| 11:49.17 | SpeedEvil | it should show up on lsusb on any linux system with active USB at all |
| 11:49.27 | SpeedEvil | you don't need any modules, or ... |
| 11:49.59 | SpeedEvil | As long as usb works, you can enumerate all of the devices, you don't need any drivers for them. |
| 11:50.14 | lindi- | usbcore, uhci_hcd at least needed but they are loaded automatically |
| 11:50.15 | trupheenix | SpeedEvil: hmmm i think i'll put out my dmesg out put on a pastebin |
| 11:50.24 | trupheenix | hi lindi- :) |
| 11:50.36 | lindi- | Can somebody please test http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2278 for me? |
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| 11:53.54 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: 03dos 07framework * rbb58041dad66 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimb_sim_contacts_fso.py: opimd: SIM_Contacts_FSO: fix unicode handling |
| 11:54.18 | trupheenix | SpeedEvil: http://pastebin.ca/1408374 |
| 11:54.27 | trupheenix | SpeedEvil: that's my dmesg o/p |
| 11:59.56 | trupheenix | SpeedEvil: ? :) |
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| 12:06.34 | trupheenix | SpeedEvil: sorry i got d/c. u got any ideas? |
| 12:07.02 | trupheenix | SpeedEvil: ok ... now it shows up... |
| 12:16.41 | trupheenix | SpeedEvil: TADA!!! It works!!! :) |
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| 12:30.34 | SpeedEvil | :) |
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| 12:40.31 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: 03dos 07framework * rd8618a85a12a 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (docs/api_overview.txt pimd_contacts.py): opimd: fix possible ID conflict after deleting contact. |
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| 13:29.46 | mwester | XorA: kernel stall is by popular "request" (i.e. lynching was threatened if someone didn't get some of the very basic bugs out first) :-D Much progress is being made now that only selected bugfixes are being worked/accepted. |
| 13:30.17 | XorA | mwester: ah cool |
| 13:30.29 | XorA | mwester: I would have expected someone to choose 2.6.29 as a base though |
| 13:30.49 | mwester | Catch-up can happen once we have a basic baseline with all the parts working at the same time.... but yes, stopping on an -rc was somewhat unfortunate. |
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| 13:31.01 | mwester | really messes up the package naming. |
| 13:31.16 | mwester | plus some bugs we've already encountered (ext4 for example). |
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| 13:31.43 | lindi- | mwester: if the WSOD issue can be fixed then I can see quite bright future for 2.6.29 if we just keep on fixing bugs without trying to do any major rewrites :) |
| 13:31.43 | XorA | ext4 is taking over my machines :-) |
| 13:32.13 | XorA | I fixed the fundamental bugs in OE so I could test that Xorg driver |
| 13:32.30 | mwester | lindi-: and Werner is aware of the outstanding issue with the wifi driver... |
| 13:32.49 | mwester | Its all tantalizingly close to working. Amazing. |
| 13:33.31 | lindi- | mwester: odd that I have not hit the wifi issue |
| 13:35.20 | XorA | whats the wifi issue? |
| 13:36.02 | mwester | I didn't think I did either, until I saw the updated trac bug report (moved from SHR to OM) -- my testing procedure side-stepped it. bug #2277 |
| 13:36.05 | lindi- | XorA: http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/cgi-bin/openmoko-bugs.py?q=wifi |
| 13:36.46 | XorA | thats pretty fundamental :-) |
| 13:38.08 | mwester | The problem for me was that I was still using the ancient "unload the module to reset/power off" technique between tests, and that resets everything nicely... :) |
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| 13:41.02 | lindi- | mwester: do you have a shell script that reproduces the bug? |
| 13:43.50 | mwester | No shell script necessary; just associate with a WPA AP, then drop the connection (any way you like), and you'll find that iwlist scan no longer works, along with many other operations. |
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| 13:50.26 | staale | does anyone know what the wifi module is called? |
| 13:51.37 | lindi- | mwester: lindi@ginger:~$ sudo ifconfig eth0 down |
| 13:51.37 | lindi- | [ 8814.565000] INFO: trying to register non-static key. |
| 13:51.37 | lindi- | [ 8814.565000] the code is fine but needs lockdep annotation. |
| 13:51.37 | lindi- | [ 8814.565000] turning off the locking correctness validator. |
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| 13:51.49 | staale | I can't see eth0 when I do ifconfig anymore.. IÍ'm thining the wifi module might not be loaded. |
| 13:51.54 | lindi- | mwester: ... BUG: spinlock lockup on CPU#0, ifconfig/2257, c7bcce64 |
| 13:51.59 | lindi- | mwester: err, are you seeing this? ;) |
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| 13:53.44 | XorA | staale: ar6000 |
| 13:54.21 | staale | XorA: thanks |
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| 14:00.33 | staale | XorA: Are you sure it's called ar6000? I searched /lib/module/`uname -r`/kernel/net for ar6000 but it didn't find anything |
| 14:00.51 | XorA | it is here |
| 14:00.59 | XorA | no idea if random kernels rename it |
| 14:01.04 | staale | Hmm, strange |
| 14:01.26 | lindi- | staale: you probably don't have it as a module? |
| 14:01.49 | staale | lindi-: Maybe, I'm using the latest stable FSO |
| 14:02.03 | staale | It might just be compiled into the kernel, I dunno |
| 14:02.28 | staale | Very strange that the WiFi card doesn't get detected, though.. |
| 14:02.52 | lindi- | staale: well check for CONFIG_AR6000_WLAN=m |
| 14:04.07 | staale | lindi-: Damn, /usr/src is empty.. I'll download the source code |
| 14:04.32 | lindi- | staale: that won't help |
| 14:04.39 | lindi- | staale: you want the configuration of yout current |
| 14:04.44 | lindi- | staale: your current kernel |
| 14:05.07 | staale | lindi-: Err, right, of course |
| 14:05.46 | staale | lindi-: Any idea where to look for the kernel config file? |
| 14:06.32 | mwester | /proc/config.gz or something like that. |
| 14:07.02 | staale | mwester: Alright, thanks :) |
| 14:07.06 | mwester | lindi-: I didn't look at anything beyond confirming that the bug report could be duplicated here. :) |
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| 14:53.08 | wurp2|working | Does anyone have recommendations for 2.5" headphones? |
| 14:53.25 | wurp2|working | The metal cap keeps coming off the plastic on the ones I got with the neo |
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| 14:55.41 | PaulFertser | wurp2|working: i can say that somehow sound is bad with my Koss the plug 16\Ohm, but is ok with AKG-K55 with 32\Ohm. |
| 14:56.29 | PaulFertser | wurp2|working: Hm, 2.5" what? |
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| 14:58.09 | trupheenix1 | i am able to ssh to my freerunner. but my freerunner isn't able to get online. any reason? |
| 14:58.26 | max_posedon | trupheenix1, routing |
| 14:59.05 | mwester | PaulFertser: must be large headphones; much current draw. ;) |
| 14:59.43 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, hm... will I able hear good sound with my Sennheiser HD555 ? I afraid of they are to big... |
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| 14:59.54 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 15:00.07 | PaulFertser | mwester: AKG are larger then Koss plugs :) I'm not sure, i haven't done any measurements yet (and i haven't tried to short useless 16\Ohm R's too). |
| 15:00.22 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: Well, first of all you need a bass fix. |
| 15:00.28 | SpeedEvil | large phones may use less urrent |
| 15:00.38 | SpeedEvil | I susspect noise cancelling headphones won't need a bass fix |
| 15:00.41 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: then it all depends on the sensitivity and resistance. |
| 15:00.54 | SpeedEvil | (as they are inherently high impedence) |
| 15:01.03 | trupheenix1 | max_posedon: ok |
| 15:01.32 | Q-Master | applying the sound fix party? 8) |
| 15:01.54 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, 50ohms ( http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/productspecs.asp?transid=newHD-2 ) |
| 15:02.27 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: i've read that even very high impedance amp will not help in our case, can't remember the exact reason... |
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| 15:03.28 | SpeedEvil | Don't see how - if going to bigger caps works. |
| 15:03.40 | SpeedEvil | But I haven't looked at the circuitry to justify that |
| 15:04.15 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: i once tried to find out how to find a headphones that fit particular device. I ultimately failed. First, output power of the device doesn't tell much and often other parameters are unknown. Second, everybody measures sensitivity in some non-transparent non-standard way (they even use different units for that)... |
| 15:04.24 | trupheenix1 | max_posedon: routing?!? |
| 15:04.39 | max_posedon | trupheenix1, yep. man route ) |
| 15:05.32 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, I just thinking about trying connect them to neo, 2.5mm->3.5mm->7mm jacks converters looks funny) |
| 15:05.56 | max_posedon | or try find some bluetooth receiver that will provide me 3.5mm/7mm jack |
| 15:06.27 | SpeedEvil | 7mm? |
| 15:06.34 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: you'll be surprised to see R4116, R4117 1k that are connected _after_ the caps to the ground... |
| 15:06.42 | SpeedEvil | 6.25 - metric standard |
| 15:06.55 | max_posedon | sorry, I don't know exact value) |
| 15:07.01 | max_posedon | s/7/6.25 ) |
| 15:07.06 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: do you have problems soldering any adapter you might need for that? |
| 15:07.32 | max_posedon | yep, very ugly hands |
| 15:07.36 | Q-Master | PaulFertser: I've thought. There was a scheme with 2 small capacitors. Their capacity might be made 2x wiring them in parallel. 8) |
| 15:07.39 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: yes - that's 30 times lower than 32R phones tho. So if phones have corner freq at 300Hz, a 10K impedence amp will have corner at around 10Hz |
| 15:08.11 | SpeedEvil | (assuming output caps fuynctiona s a simple CR lowpass with the resistors in parallel with the phones) |
| 15:08.34 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: btw, there're other 33k R in series with every phone channel. And 300Hz is too optimistic iirc. |
| 15:09.26 | SpeedEvil | What's the stock cap? |
| 15:10.03 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: The line is like that: wolfson output - 1u - 1k to the ground - 33k - headphone to the ground. |
| 15:10.21 | PaulFertser | s/33k/33/ |
| 15:10.24 | trupheenix1 | max_posedon: u mean i need to see the route on my freerunner? |
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| 15:11.00 | PaulFertser | trupheenix1: you need to configure your host to be a good gateway! |
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| 15:12.57 | trupheenix1 | PaulFertser: ok i followed the ubuntu instructions |
| 15:14.01 | PaulFertser | trupheenix1: you might also like to follow ubuntuforums, a very valuable source of information and troubleshooting advices. |
| 15:14.45 | SpeedEvil | 1u? wow |
| 15:14.48 | PaulFertser | (similar to "reinstall the system 3 times, that solved all my problems") |
| 15:15.20 | toggles_w | PaulFertser wurp2|working -- thanks! |
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| 15:15.58 | PaulFertser | Q-Master: 1u is nowhere near 100u that is needed. |
| 15:16.03 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: 10Khz corner? Hmm. I'm sure it sounded lots better |
| 15:16.17 | SpeedEvil | scribbles on his abacus. |
| 15:16.24 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: and yes, 1u in stock :-/ 4.7u in A7. |
| 15:16.25 | Q-Master | PaulFertser: that's true. |
| 15:16.37 | SpeedEvil | ow. |
| 15:16.41 | SpeedEvil | In 01 too? |
| 15:17.04 | SpeedEvil | because I seem to recall music sounding OK, and that'd be a complete joke |
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| 15:18.01 | wurp2|working | PaulFertser: er, mm ;-) |
| 15:18.54 | SpeedEvil | maybe I was imagining it. |
| 15:19.27 | XorA | SpeedEvil: 01 had much nicer sounds than 02 |
| 15:20.05 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, btw, haven't you seen such bluetooth receivers with 3.5mm in Moscow? |
| 15:21.09 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: 01 doesn't have 1k to ground it seems. |
| 15:21.48 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: never payed attention. Feel free to find one and contact me to transfer it to you by train conductors or by other means. |
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| 15:22.39 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: the 1k should make no difference at all |
| 15:22.45 | PaulFertser | XorA: BTW, Hi, nice to see you again here! :) |
| 15:22.46 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: at least with normal phones |
| 15:23.20 | XorA | PaulFertser: I pop in on occasion to see if anything changed |
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| 15:23.38 | Q-Master | max_posedon: jabra bt320s |
| 15:23.43 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: yeah, with normal it can't make any difference, but with hi-Z amp they might make things worse, i guess. |
| 15:25.05 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: I'm pretty sure I've listened to music on the phones on GTA01, and it's not got a 1u in series with the phones. |
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| 15:25.44 | SpeedEvil | If I'm recalling things right. |
| 15:25.57 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: well, what is the cutoff freq if we assume 1u _is_ there? |
| 15:26.13 | SpeedEvil | 10KHz or so |
| 15:26.51 | SpeedEvil | essentially no bass at all, and very little mid-range |
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| 15:27.07 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: Anyway, i suggest you take a look at the schem when you'll be able to see pdfs :) |
| 15:27.11 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 15:27.40 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r0e1969a8edff 10/framework/patterns/asyncworker.py: asyncworker: add synchronized version of AsyncWorkerQueue |
| 15:27.41 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * reaaecee6ae80 10/framework/resource.py: resource: use SynchronizedAsyncWorker as worker queue |
| 15:29.08 | PaulFertser | is afraid that trupheenix1 really believed ubuntuforums can be of any help to anybody... |
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| 15:31.07 | max_posedon | Q-Master, thanks, this is smth like I want, except may be 6h... |
| 15:31.22 | max_posedon | with my "big" headphones 6h may become 3h |
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| 15:33.15 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: can it be that you had some bass equalization in wolfson? |
| 15:34.21 | Q-Master | max_posedon: it works playing sound about 4h. I have big headphones too |
| 15:34.25 | wurp2|working | I listen to music on the gta01 with the stock headphones and it sounds fine to me. I'm no audiophile, but I would notice a 10khz cutoff |
| 15:34.27 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: not really |
| 15:34.47 | Q-Master | max_posedon: I don't like it, but haven't seen anything better. |
| 15:34.55 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: it's 3dB/octave roll-off |
| 15:35.01 | max_posedon | bad... but thanks.. |
| 15:36.12 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: so at 6 octaves down (200Hz) it'd be some 18dB down. |
| 15:36.40 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: well, i understand that it sounds impossible considering the sound was "ok", but... Everybody says it's 1u and only 4.7 in A7. Ask DocScrutinizer if you don't trust me ;) |
| 15:37.43 | SpeedEvil | Not saying that - just that 01 did not sound like it had a 1u cap in |
| 15:38.01 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 15:38.20 | SpeedEvil | diddn't 01 have a seperate headphone amp |
| 15:38.28 | wurp2|working | I would say 01 music sounds better than OK, assuming you're not cpu starving the audio rendering |
| 15:38.29 | SpeedEvil | actually ignore this - I need to look at schematics |
| 15:38.55 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: LM4857, yes |
| 15:39.48 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: LHP, RHP are connected to 1u caps then through the 33Rs to the headphone receptable. |
| 15:40.38 | SpeedEvil | I'm not doubting that's what the schematic says. |
| 15:41.11 | PaulFertser | You better do ;) you shouldn't trust my readings of any schem :) |
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| 15:47.09 | DocScrutinizer | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-March/001996.html |
| 15:47.40 | DocScrutinizer | GTA01 same IIRC, except the 1k maybe |
| 15:50.16 | DocScrutinizer | GTA01 had LM4853 stereo amp, whereas GTA02 had LM4857 stereo-hs/mono-speaker amp (or maybe it was other way round) |
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| 15:50.49 | DocScrutinizer | i.e swap 57/53 |
| 15:51.23 | SpeedEvil | wonders if he's dropped some zeros |
| 15:52.07 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: as you can see from above posting, -3dB point for infinite Impedance load is 160Hz, with 1k-load it's 320Hz then |
| 15:53.16 | DocScrutinizer | for GTA01 you might have semi-decent audio with 600Ohm headphones, if you equalize in Wolfson |
| 15:54.17 | SpeedEvil | finishes washing mouse crap off food :/ |
| 15:54.33 | SpeedEvil | (Mice got into jars cupboard, and crapped all over place) |
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| 15:56.25 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: i think the Old Testament says that one must destroy any vessel that mouse got into. |
| 15:56.45 | SpeedEvil | Just got onto - not into. |
| 15:57.31 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: for onto it says that you need to place vessel in water till evening, after that it will be considered clean. |
| 15:57.42 | SpeedEvil | sealed jars - washed twice with change of water |
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| 15:58.03 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: ;) |
| 15:58.05 | SpeedEvil | Yes - but it also says I can't eat pork. |
| 15:58.33 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: sure, i don't see anything wrong with it. |
| 15:58.41 | SpeedEvil | This is one of the reasons I'm not a member of one of the abrahamic religions. |
| 15:58.44 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: with not eating pork. |
| 15:58.50 | SpeedEvil | They might change their mind on the pork thing. |
| 15:58.53 | SpeedEvil | nom nom nom. |
| 15:59.20 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: btw, for some unknown reason russian orthodox church doesn't consider eating pork to be a sin :( |
| 16:01.16 | max_posedon | port is good food, orthodox church can't change it) |
| 16:01.34 | PaulFertser | always wondered why people can eat pork despite the fact that pigs are very smart creatures. |
| 16:02.10 | SpeedEvil | Pig can catch me and eat me - fine, I have no problem with thaat. |
| 16:02.43 | DocScrutinizer | If man couldn't eat anything that's smarter than himself, 99% of mankind would die |
| 16:02.53 | PaulFertser | No, it's by no means a fair competition. You don't try to catch a wild pig do you? |
| 16:03.11 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: I could. |
| 16:03.24 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: if there were any around - and I was properly armed |
| 16:03.24 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: :))) you doesn't seem to be very proud of humanity |
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| 16:03.36 | SpeedEvil | boar-spear isn't quite properly armed |
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| 16:03.43 | DocScrutinizer | Earth's virus infection |
| 16:04.13 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, May be some day genetics will create some animal, that will be very smart, and will understand that they will be eaten, and will be very lucky with this |
| 16:04.37 | max_posedon | "The hichhakers guide to the galaxy" describes one such animal) |
| 16:04.39 | SpeedEvil | max_posedon: they're called germans. |
| 16:04.49 | SpeedEvil | max_posedon: well - at least one of them. |
| 16:04.56 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: are you sure you won't consider cruel the way pigs you eat were treated? I suspect that most businessmen will do anything, no matter how immoral, to earn more money. |
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| 16:05.30 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: I do - and I would like to be in a position to afford pork from the better welfare class standards, |
| 16:05.44 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: eating such an animal will harm you, not it... |
| 16:06.10 | max_posedon | harm me? why?! |
| 16:06.13 | SpeedEvil | But - so tasty - cooked right. |
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| 16:07.50 | DocScrutinizer | got his misantropic foul-mood day |
| 16:07.52 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: there was a news story recently about how one sysadmin ate other sysadmin who was happy to be killed and eaten. Judge by yourself. |
| 16:09.21 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, your know, pork is food, people aren't food(just may be because taste). |
| 16:09.23 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: the more i thought about these things, the less attractive pork seemed to me... |
| 16:09.46 | max_posedon | I understand that I'm animal, and many animals eats others animals, it is ok, and normal. |
| 16:09.57 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: pork is flesh of a pig. And pig is a living animal, not food inherently. |
| 16:10.46 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: it's normal in a competitive environment. Modern society is not a competitive enviroment for other animals :( It's not a competition, it's a massacre. |
| 16:11.25 | max_posedon | I disagree if speak about pigs |
| 16:11.39 | SpeedEvil | why |
| 16:11.52 | max_posedon | pigs != wild boar, they was "created" for eating |
| 16:11.58 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: speak about dogs then? Or horses? Or sysadmins that want to be eaten? |
| 16:12.02 | max_posedon | people "create" such animal |
| 16:12.34 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: people "create" other people. Can they eat babies then? |
| 16:12.47 | max_posedon | horseflesh btw can be find in shops |
| 16:13.57 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, don't compare birth, and "developing" new animals |
| 16:14.04 | max_posedon | it just little bit different things |
| 16:14.07 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: btw, i'm not a believer, it just seemed funny to me that the old testament has an exact recipe for your problem. |
| 16:15.49 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: different, but it highlights the idea: you don't have an authority to do anything with what you created. |
| 16:16.33 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: unless you've licensed it appropriately. |
| 16:16.44 | max_posedon | hm... yep, may be, but I must do it for survive |
| 16:16.54 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: e.g. slaves were "developed" for slavery. I guess some of them didn't see anything wrong with it. |
| 16:17.11 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: i'm not talking about laws, i'm talking about ethics. |
| 16:17.20 | max_posedon | so, If I must, I don't want argue with Nature, and just do it. |
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| 16:17.49 | max_posedon | Belarus may be isn't country where people can think much about ethics. |
| 16:18.16 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: What exactly you must do? |
| 16:18.29 | max_posedon | I must eat food |
| 16:18.43 | thrashold | Is there any way to reboot Neo 1973 without taking the battery out? I don't want to wait several hours the next time my phone has crashed with an exhausted battery :( |
| 16:18.44 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: food!=pork |
| 16:19.15 | max_posedon | yep, but I should eat meat, and pork one kind of this |
| 16:19.33 | DocScrutinizer | gonna get me a decent filet steak now :-) those talks made me hungry |
| 16:19.41 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: various studies and real life experience suggest that meat is not mandatory for humans. |
| 16:20.34 | PaulFertser | thrashold: if you can connect via ssh, then shutdown -r now should do the trick. If not and your battery is already flat, well, you have to charge it somehow anyway. |
| 16:20.47 | thrashold | Crashed during fsck on boot :) |
| 16:20.49 | max_posedon | not mandatory, but really recommended |
| 16:21.07 | DocScrutinizer | maybe it's not mandatory. But recent theories claim it caused rise of man from neanderthaler. |
| 16:21.25 | thrashold | Hm, well, I just discovered I'm dumb. Disregard the last question. :) |
| 16:22.09 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: well, i'm already a homo sapiens :) |
| 16:22.13 | max_posedon | DocScrutinizer, you trust famous "British sciences"? |
| 16:22.50 | PaulFertser | thrashold: then your battery is not flat probably, i don't see a problem in rebooting by replugging it. |
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| 16:23.51 | DocScrutinizer | I'm sreiously starving from bad eating discipline and beef is an excellent source of proteine. So cya, off for dinner :-) |
| 16:24.04 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: i'm not sure it's really recommended. It's just part of many traditional diets, but that doesn't mean much. |
| 16:24.10 | thrashold | PaulFertser: No, actually the phone was rebooting after the fsck and it did like 100 times while I was out (which exhausted the battery). I wanted a boot menu to fix it, and I absolutely forgot I can press the AUX after the reboot... Instead, I took the battery out, and it's not booting. (It's exhausted -- boots with another battery). |
| 16:24.53 | PaulFertser | thrashold: ah, i know that hot-plugging batteries can be dangerous on neo1973 :-/ |
| 16:26.22 | thrashold | I did like million times when the phone was in a crashed state, didn't have any trouble so far. And the phone is OK, because it boots with another one. Is it possible to actually kill the battery? |
| 16:26.54 | PaulFertser | thrashold: it has enough internal protection afaik, so no. Do you have a voltmeter to test? |
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| 16:27.59 | DocScrutinizer | gta01? |
| 16:28.04 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: yes |
| 16:28.51 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, I don't trust any diets, and even more |
| 16:28.56 | DocScrutinizer | make sure charging has STOPPED before swapping bat. Otherwise scream of death -> pcf50606 fries |
| 16:29.12 | thrashold | And by "dangerous" you mean that the pins can "touch" something they shouldn't? |
| 16:29.12 | max_posedon | want kill any parents who disallow their childrens to eat meat |
| 16:29.14 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: "In nutrition, the diet is the sum of food consumed by a person or other organism." |
| 16:29.37 | DocScrutinizer | thrashold: see last line |
| 16:29.41 | thrashold | I see |
| 16:30.06 | mwester | thrashold: no, not pins -- the PMU chip will release its magic smoke. |
| 16:30.31 | PaulFertser | Does it happen instantly? |
| 16:30.48 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, girls usualy eat ~4 times less food than mans, but it didn't change anything |
| 16:30.53 | DocScrutinizer | no statistic material to answer this Q |
| 16:31.02 | mwester | ;) not in my experience -- but I only let it do that for as long as it took for me to grab the usb cable and yank it out. |
| 16:31.17 | SpeedEvil | and online calc I found says 2.5KHz corner with 1uF and 68R. /me forgot a pie or two. |
| 16:31.23 | mwester | I am reluctant to repeat the experience. |
| 16:32.14 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: 1/(2PI R C) |
| 16:32.58 | thrashold | And if pcf50606 (or whatever) fries, what stops to work? Charging or everything? |
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| 16:33.10 | DocScrutinizer | everything |
| 16:34.38 | thrashold | Because I've experienced the "scream of death" twice. And my phone works, but I suspect that charging is not working (I will be certain in an hour or two). |
| 16:35.09 | thrashold | I can certainly boot it with my second battery which is charged. |
| 16:35.42 | DocScrutinizer | well there's no guarantee it won't just break batchrg |
| 16:36.11 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism#Health_benefits_and_concerns |
| 16:36.42 | DocScrutinizer | but you should check PMU 50606 is set up correctly to enable charging at all |
| 16:37.35 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, sorry I don't trust wikipedia, only doctors |
| 16:37.37 | thrashold | Shouldn't it charge at 100 mA when the phone is off? |
| 16:37.45 | thrashold | I'm confused |
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| 16:38.19 | DocScrutinizer | max_posedon: yeah trust me, I know what I'm doing ;-D |
| 16:38.43 | DocScrutinizer | thrashold: that's a complicated topic |
| 16:39.30 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: find some sane scientific article then, i'm ready to discuss it (on another channel where it'll be less OT). |
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| 16:39.50 | DocScrutinizer | depends on state of PMU, and this in turn on previous settings and shutdown and state of backup bat |
| 16:40.06 | thrashold | Actually, my question would be: "If my phone doesn't boot with this seemgly empty battery after hour or two, should I buy a Freerunner already, or find someone to charge it once?" |
| 16:40.13 | DocScrutinizer | (OT) hehe |
| 16:40.53 | DocScrutinizer | find someone to charge it |
| 16:40.53 | hiciu | thrashold: try to remove battery, plug it again and boot into NOR |
| 16:41.22 | DocScrutinizer | yup, also a good idea |
| 16:42.11 | max_posedon | PaulFertser, hm... may be, but another day |
| 16:42.19 | DocScrutinizer | then select power down in nor menu and let it sit for 30min. should boot after that |
| 16:42.46 | thrashold | hiciu: It doesn't even try to boot at the moment. |
| 16:42.55 | DocScrutinizer | but probably thrashold can't boot to nor even |
| 16:43.19 | PaulFertser | gta01 |
| 16:43.33 | thrashold | I have a perverted idea. The Nokia phones don't work with the Neo batteries, but can they charge them? |
| 16:43.34 | DocScrutinizer | thrashold: you should check if it's charging the spare correctly |
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| 16:44.18 | DocScrutinizer | thrashold: nope, if it doesn't work, it won't charge either I guess |
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| 16:46.17 | DocScrutinizer | thrashold: you can charge bat by applying voltage of a 5V 500..700mA nokia charger directly for a few minutes |
| 16:46.36 | DocScrutinizer | the old ones with barrel connector |
| 16:46.49 | DocScrutinizer | plus to plus ;-) |
| 16:48.12 | DocScrutinizer | few minutes is <than 5, ATTENDED ! |
| 16:48.16 | thrashold | the output of the charger is 5.7. Is that too much? |
| 16:48.36 | thrashold | 5.7 V |
| 16:48.43 | DocScrutinizer | it will drop to correct voltage when current is taken |
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| 16:49.46 | thrashold | Thanks, I'll try that, but I'm now almost certain that the charging of my phone is fried. |
| 16:49.57 | DocScrutinizer | so it's important it's a nokia charger and it says sth like "550mA" |
| 16:50.12 | thrashold | 800mA |
| 16:50.28 | DocScrutinizer | will work as well |
| 16:51.25 | DocScrutinizer | if bat gets hot, immediately stop the process! |
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| 16:59.27 | thrashold | that got me to the menu |
| 17:00.45 | thrashold | I'm currently in the menu, from the serial console, and it says that fast charging is enabled |
| 17:02.05 | DocScrutinizer | so check if bat is slowly warming up a little |
| 17:02.17 | DocScrutinizer | if it does it's charging |
| 17:02.51 | thrashold | so far, no. But it didn't with the nokia charger, either. |
| 17:03.09 | DocScrutinizer | themp going up ~15°C during fastcharge |
| 17:03.15 | thrashold | So i'll wait |
| 17:03.54 | thrashold | `neo1973 charger status' says `pre' |
| 17:04.07 | DocScrutinizer | cool |
| 17:04.24 | thrashold | What is `pre'? |
| 17:04.45 | saracen | 'pre'pare to throw your phone in to a bucket of sand and run for cover |
| 17:04.52 | DocScrutinizer | that's meaning bat voltage is very low and it started gentle precharge to ramp up voltage to sane level |
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| 17:05.29 | DocScrutinizer | then start fastcharge eventually |
| 17:06.10 | thrashold | So i'll just wait and if it doesn't charge I'm getting a freerunner. Thank you for the assistance :) |
| 17:06.21 | DocScrutinizer | thrashold: you could touch the contacts with a pair of probes and check actual volatge at battery while being charged |
| 17:06.46 | thrashold | I don't have a voltmeter :) |
| 17:06.59 | DocScrutinizer | should slowly ramp up to ~4V |
| 17:07.04 | DocScrutinizer | :-/ |
| 17:07.55 | thrashold | (actually I have, but last week I discovered it is fried, too.... :) ) |
| 17:08.57 | DocScrutinizer | hehe - probed current of a battery? (instead of voltage) |
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| 17:11.32 | DocScrutinizer | "please get a ampere-meter and check there's no leakage current inside your mains power outlet wallsockets" XD |
| 17:11.41 | thrashold | yup :) But it is older than I am, so I guess it was time for it to die :) |
| 17:12.55 | thrashold | That's a cool idea, someone will try to connect both poles of the amperemeter to the wall socket directly. :D |
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| 17:15.07 | thrashold | Nope, the charger is dead. Instead of charging, it exhausted the battery again. |
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| 17:15.34 | DocScrutinizer | "oh, so there actually was magic smoke in your wallsocket? it moved to the ampmeter and choked it" |
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| 17:16.56 | DocScrutinizer | thrashold: please elaborate |
| 17:17.20 | thrashold | The phone shut down, and doesn't start again. :) |
| 17:17.48 | DocScrutinizer | while connected to usb-charger the phone shutdown??? |
| 17:17.56 | thrashold | yes |
| 17:18.19 | DocScrutinizer | so seems your wall socket is really dead :D |
| 17:18.36 | thrashold | something of that sort :) |
| 17:19.07 | DocScrutinizer | first test if the usb-charger is delivering voltage of 5V |
| 17:19.31 | thrashold | I'm charging on a PC, not a USB charger :) |
| 17:19.43 | DocScrutinizer | duh, silly |
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| 17:22.49 | DocScrutinizer | you don't want to worry about what your usb-host is doing if you desperately need to charge bat |
| 17:24.23 | thrashold | With gta02 doesn't have this problem with taking the battery out while charing? |
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| 17:24.36 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 17:25.26 | thrashold | And it doesn't turn off when I take the battery out with 500mA available on the USB? |
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| 17:25.55 | DocScrutinizer | now you have a Neo shutting down while hooked up to USB and you don't know is it due to Neo is broken or is it due to your host did silly things |
| 17:26.13 | DocScrutinizer | nope, it doesn't |
| 17:27.20 | wurp2|working | but IIRC the gsm is unpowered while the battery is out on gta02 |
| 17:27.35 | DocScrutinizer | as well as on gta01 |
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| 17:28.13 | wurp2|working | DocScrutinizer: Yeah, but on gta01, if it's plugged in w/ no battery, no power to gsm is least of your problems |
| 17:28.19 | DocScrutinizer | gsm is powered directly from bat |
| 17:28.39 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, why? |
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| 17:29.01 | thrashold | My idea was to use my future Freerunner as a charger for the 1973 bat, and I just wantered if I could easily swap batteries. |
| 17:29.09 | DocScrutinizer | well, probably it won't boot |
| 17:29.10 | wurp2|working | I thought the buzzing sound was some part of the charger system going crazy |
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| 17:29.33 | wurp2|working | There is a high pitched unpleasant noise if you disconnect battery while gta01 is on usb power |
| 17:29.39 | DocScrutinizer | thrashold: thats perfectly feasible |
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| 17:33.14 | *** topic/#openmoko is Newsflash: Openmoko puts further phone models on ice, support for present models continues with limited forces | Users of Openmoko Hardware | Developers, please join#openmoko-cdevel | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org/ | Before asking read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 17:33.34 | wurp2|working | Is there an alaw or ulaw hardware compression available from the high level (for arbitrary audio sources) on neo? |
| 17:33.44 | lindi- | wurp2|working: afaik not |
| 17:33.46 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 17:33.52 | wurp2|working | k, :-( |
| 17:34.14 | DocScrutinizer | tho a-law isn't any compression at all afaik |
| 17:34.41 | DocScrutinizer | itäs plain linear signed 16bit afaik |
| 17:34.45 | wurp2|working | DocScrutinizer: I'm pretty sure I was getting major compression with alaw in my iphone app |
| 17:34.51 | wurp2|working | apologies for using the i-word |
| 17:35.06 | wurp2|working | Let me make sure I'm using alaw, but I sure thought I was |
| 17:35.13 | DocScrutinizer | don't get it. sorry |
| 17:35.35 | mjr | guesses you were seeing downsampling/converting savings :] |
| 17:35.50 | DocScrutinizer | uLaw/aLaw are us/european ISDN data formats |
| 17:35.53 | *** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@12.186.229.30) |
| 17:36.41 | DocScrutinizer | one is a little logaritmic to get less distortion |
| 17:36.47 | mjr | and sometimes default to 8kHz 8bit (happens to be ISDN throughput), hence savings |
| 17:37.13 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, maybe 8bit even, not sure |
| 17:37.29 | mjr | they're certainly 8 bit as used in ISDN |
| 17:37.47 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 17:37.50 | mjr | and in legacy Sun .au files :] |
| 17:38.04 | mjr | (though apparently they have higher options as well) |
| 17:38.12 | DocScrutinizer | ISDN is 64k, with makes for 8bit@8k |
| 17:38.24 | wurp2|working | mjr: Maybe that's it. The savings looked too big to be only that, but maybe I just looked wrong |
| 17:39.11 | DocScrutinizer | I don't see what Iphone has to do with that at all |
| 17:40.03 | DocScrutinizer | also I don't see why you'd need a hw-codec for that on FR |
| 17:40.29 | DocScrutinizer | sox will happily convert to and fro |
| 17:40.52 | wurp2|working | DocScrutinizer: I wrote an iphone app that uses alaw on the audio before I send it to a server |
| 17:41.04 | mjr | guesses it has an api for conversions |
| 17:41.37 | wurp2|working | I was gonna use it just for minimizing cpu usage, but if it's just sampling it's too low an impact to care |
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| 17:47.50 | thrashold | One more question. Is it normal that I heard the scream of death even when I took out a battery that wasn't charging? (Nokia one) |
| 17:47.52 | DocScrutinizer | uLaw is a non-linear (logaritmic) 8bit streaming format. no problem at all to convert to / from 16bit linear |
| 17:48.17 | DocScrutinizer | nope, it was charging then |
| 17:49.51 | SpeedEvil | I assume blender doesn't work? |
| 17:49.51 | SpeedEvil | err |
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| 17:54.20 | fredrin | where's DAVE? |
| 17:57.20 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen dave |
| 17:57.23 | apt | dave <n=dave@pool-138-89-1-87.mad.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 14d 16h 16m 8s ago, saying: 'hahaa'. |
| 17:58.52 | fredrin | lol |
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| 18:08.27 | wurp2|working | ~seen fredrin |
| 18:08.29 | apt | fredrin is currently on #openmoko. Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 9m 37s, last said: 'lol'. |
| 18:08.35 | wurp2|working | hahaa |
| 18:09.08 | DocScrutinizer | wurp2|working: sox --help: -s/-u/-U/-A/ sample encoding: signed/unsigned/u-law/A-law |
| 18:11.25 | wurp2|working | DocScrutinizer: Thansk |
| 18:11.36 | DocScrutinizer | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulaw |
| 18:11.58 | wurp2|working | I didn't look at Ulaw, but I did read on a-law |
| 18:12.20 | wurp2|working | It looks as if it's a way of prepping the data for low bitrate sampling so it doesn't sound like shit |
| 18:12.37 | DocScrutinizer | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-law |
| 18:13.01 | DocScrutinizer | it's simply non-linear coding |
| 18:13.01 | wurp2|working | That's the one I read, although not via the de host |
| 18:13.03 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178024108.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:14.09 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5f072.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 18:15.07 | Zorkman | fredrin: we suspect he is dead... |
| 18:15.17 | wurp2|working | It is a non-linear coding which preps the data for low bitrate sampling... |
| 18:15.57 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 18:16.39 | DocScrutinizer | wurp2|working: u/a-law has no relation to sampling rate at all |
| 18:17.10 | *** join/#openmoko samgee (n=samgee@14.36-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 18:17.16 | DocScrutinizer | it's simply reducing quatisation noise resp distortion |
| 18:18.23 | DocScrutinizer | so it basically makes your 8bit stream sound like it had 12bit linear |
| 18:18.43 | *** join/#openmoko laen (n=laen@82-197-201-24.dsl.cambrium.nl) |
| 18:19.26 | fredrin | Zorkman: why? |
| 18:20.04 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@BAA25d5.baa.pppool.de) |
| 18:21.06 | *** join/#openmoko laen (n=laen@82-197-201-24.dsl.cambrium.nl) |
| 18:21.19 | *** join/#openmoko yanu (n=yanu@d54C5FCC3.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:21.49 | *** part/#openmoko laen (n=laen@82-197-201-24.dsl.cambrium.nl) |
| 18:23.00 | wurp2|working | DocScrutinizer: The wikipedia disagrees with you: "A-law encoding effectively reduces the dynamic range of the signal, thereby increasing the coding efficiency and resulting in a signal-to-distortion ratio that is superior to that obtained by linear encoding for a given number of bits." |
| 18:23.28 | SpeedEvil | Assuming the signals are distributed about zero. |
| 18:23.36 | SpeedEvil | wurp2|working: no, it doesn't |
| 18:24.32 | DocScrutinizer | wurp2|working: that's actually confirming my statement |
| 18:27.01 | DocScrutinizer | wurp2|working: well, low bitrate is correct as well |
| 18:27.16 | DocScrutinizer | as you get less bits per sample |
| 18:27.43 | DocScrutinizer | for same quality of audio |
| 18:28.45 | DocScrutinizer | still a/u-law has no relation to sample rate |
| 18:29.28 | *** join/#openmoko Kayin (n=kayin@shell2.skyberate.net) |
| 18:29.30 | wurp2|working | I can't see how that can be true... if the sample rate is "infinite" then any algorithm applied to the signal before sampling is by definition a loss of quality |
| 18:30.06 | wurp2|working | So it seems that there must be some sample rate range in which alaw/ulaw makes sense, and otherwise not |
| 18:30.13 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 18:30.19 | SpeedEvil | It improves any sample rate |
| 18:30.28 | SpeedEvil | (for some value of improve) |
| 18:30.45 | SpeedEvil | it gives you better dynamic range at 8 bits and 8KHz, or 8 bits and 44KHz |
| 18:31.13 | SpeedEvil | It trades quantisation noise for some distortion |
| 18:31.40 | *** join/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@HSI-KBW-091-089-004-028.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 18:31.41 | SpeedEvil | (quantisation noise that you;d otherwise get badly bitten by due to not having enough bits) |
| 18:32.58 | DocScrutinizer | not even that - it trades somewhat higher distortion an high levels for lower distortion at low levels, ideally equalling the amount of distortion over all dynamic range |
| 18:34.07 | DocScrutinizer | by introducing kinda 1/2/5 scheme rather than a linear coding |
| 18:34.43 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 18:34.46 | SpeedEvil | There are alternatives. |
| 18:34.56 | SpeedEvil | points at Nicam728 |
| 18:35.03 | *** join/#openmoko kirun (n=kirun@78-86-154-194.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:35.22 | SpeedEvil | 12 bit audio, with a 4 bit 'volume' word every 1ms frame |
| 18:35.29 | SpeedEvil | IIRC |
| 18:35.55 | *** join/#openmoko divanorama (n=divan@ivanco.convex.ru) |
| 18:36.39 | DocScrutinizer | scoopman had 12bit logaritmic, which gives a distortion better than CD-16bit linear |
| 18:36.41 | wurp2|working | OK, I'm seeing now that it's simply a way of adjusting volume before quantizing, and is independent of bitrate |
| 18:37.13 | wurp2|working | It would be if the quantization resolution was "infinite" that alaw/ulaw would be pure distortion |
| 18:37.32 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless it operated at 28kHz samplerate which limited upper freq to 14kHz |
| 18:39.16 | SpeedEvil | If you have enough bits, u-law or a-law doesn't matter, as the quantisation noise drops below the system noise floor |
| 18:39.32 | SpeedEvil | which gives a pure tone distortion lower better than |
| 18:39.39 | SpeedEvil | intermodulation distortion is higher |
| 18:39.48 | wurp2|working | I don't understand why the wiki chart shows -20dB input signal not quite equaling -20dB output signal for no companding... the chart has to be in error |
| 18:40.16 | SpeedEvil | No! Wikipedia in error? |
| 18:40.19 | SpeedEvil | Inform 4chan! |
| 18:41.25 | *** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i577B401B.versanet.de) |
| 18:41.33 | *** join/#openmoko erwan_ (n=erwan@sp137-2-82-246-110-179.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:41.45 | Weiss | roh: are you aware of the docs.openmoko.org SSL certificate having just expired? |
| 18:42.17 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: right, intermodulation is higher. amazing, never considered that :) |
| 18:44.16 | DocScrutinizer | anyway really time for dinner now |
| 18:44.40 | DocScrutinizer | cya |
| 18:48.38 | Weiss | roh: (ticket filed - i have to go out for a bit) |
| 18:55.52 | mickeyl | iirc roh is no longer being employed by Openmoko, but they have another admin which will hopefully cares about the ticket |
| 18:55.56 | *** join/#openmoko vininim (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim) |
| 18:56.13 | wurp2|working | mickeyl: That is getting to be a familiar refrain |
| 18:56.37 | mickeyl | yo |
| 18:56.57 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon1 (n=max_pose@93-243-252-87-dynamic-pool.gprs.mts.by) |
| 18:58.20 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r48eb5af70ee9 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/device.py: ogsmd: do not try to suspend or resume a modem that doesn't exist (read: has never been used before) |
| 18:58.23 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r44c30d80af0d 10/framework/resource.py: |
| 18:58.23 | mwester | So, it's just Steve and Sean now? |
| 18:58.25 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: resource: do not enqueue suspend or resume commands, if a resource is disabled |
| 18:58.27 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: this should bring the resource handling back on track |
| 18:58.32 | mickeyl | nah, there's 20 people left |
| 18:59.01 | mickeyl | IIRC 3-4 working on telephony to some extent |
| 18:59.07 | mickeyl | the rest on different projects |
| 18:59.11 | mwester | ok |
| 18:59.39 | mickeyl | "ok" ;) |
| 19:00.47 | mwester | Yeah, I'm being politically correct, and not commenting or inquiring further. ;-) |
| 19:01.03 | mickeyl | same here |
| 19:01.10 | mickeyl | nothing left but disappointment. |
| 19:01.21 | mwester | good way to put it. |
| 19:01.23 | saracen | I had a disappintment once. |
| 19:01.28 | saracen | +o |
| 19:02.16 | mickeyl | at least I have some open hardware now to demo my ideas. it doesn't look like any of the other current hardware manfuacturers are able to provide that |
| 19:03.40 | fredrin | i got my hands on a GTA01 phone and flashed it with latest shr-testing, but can't get wifi going... |
| 19:03.53 | wurp2|working | Well, I just meant "Jim doesn't work there anymore", not so much "no one works there any more" |
| 19:04.03 | XorA | fredrin: GTA01 has no wifi |
| 19:04.05 | mickeyl | fredrin: might be because GTA01 has no wifi |
| 19:04.12 | fredrin | aaaaah |
| 19:04.40 | wurp2|working | fredrin: Also no video acceleration or accelerometers |
| 19:05.29 | *** join/#openmoko EtienneG (n=etienne@modemcable178.77-70-69.static.videotron.ca) |
| 19:05.33 | DocScrutinizer | and you probably will encounter difficulties when accessing modem |
| 19:05.33 | fredrin | k |
| 19:05.45 | wurp2|working | DocScrutinizer: ? |
| 19:05.49 | XorA | as an advantage gta01 has no video deccellerator either :-) |
| 19:05.51 | fredrin | that sucks |
| 19:05.51 | wurp2|working | I haven't noticed any |
| 19:06.06 | fredrin | DocScrutinizer: you can't upgrade the modem either? |
| 19:06.10 | DocScrutinizer | there's areason for different images for gta01 and 02 |
| 19:06.18 | fredrin | i know |
| 19:06.31 | wurp2|working | XorA: Yeah, and no gps being fubared by sd card, either |
| 19:06.53 | XorA | wurp2|working: anyone ever finish reverse engineering that sucker though? |
| 19:07.03 | wurp2|working | DocScrutinizer: The SHR image for gta01 still has settings for wifi, so he can have the right image and still think wifi should work |
| 19:07.13 | wurp2|working | XorA: Video acceleration? |
| 19:07.15 | saracen | wishes opengl was supported |
| 19:07.21 | XorA | wurp2|working: gps |
| 19:07.29 | wurp2|working | XorA: Oh, not afaik |
| 19:07.40 | wurp2|working | But I've been pretty much out of the game for 6 months or more |
| 19:07.47 | saracen | How is it going on the video acceleration side of things? =( |
| 19:07.47 | XorA | wurp2|working: same here |
| 19:07.54 | XorA | wurp2|working: cooler toys to play with |
| 19:08.08 | XorA | saracen: the Xorg driver is running but buggy |
| 19:08.19 | wurp2|working | saracen: afaik same place it was 6 months ago - there is an accelerated mplayer, but I'm not sure it had sound |
| 19:08.26 | fredrin | saracen: mem bandwidth is still the problem |
| 19:08.39 | fredrin | maybe someone could come up with some insane hacks |
| 19:08.46 | mickeyl | all gllin reverse engineering processes were dropped when Om announced that 02 has an open chip |
| 19:08.50 | mickeyl | "open" |
| 19:08.52 | wurp2|working | I thought the problem was that the video acceleration interface was proprietary and hadn't been reverse engineered |
| 19:08.58 | saracen | More interested in some opengl driver =) |
| 19:09.06 | XorA | wurp2|working: NDA signers have the docs |
| 19:09.11 | saracen | Yeah, thats the problems I've hard, the NDA |
| 19:09.14 | saracen | heard* |
| 19:09.23 | wurp2|working | XorA: Yeah, but they're not doing anything with them afaik |
| 19:09.35 | XorA | wurp2|working: well two of them are working on Xorg driver |
| 19:09.37 | wurp2|working | ceasarb was, iirc |
| 19:09.39 | XorA | wurp2|working: after I left it |
| 19:09.45 | wurp2|working | XorA: Oh! That's news to me |
| 19:09.58 | XorA | wurp2|working: only 2 days since last git checkins on Xorg driver |
| 19:10.07 | wurp2|working | wow, very cool |
| 19:10.12 | wurp2|working | for people with FR, not for me ;-) |
| 19:10.15 | XorA | you can tell I spent yesterday fixing OE so I could actually use gta02 |
| 19:10.19 | saracen | I think they should do really, rather than concentrates on other aspects of the phone that the community *can* actually work on. But then again, I'm a hypocrite, without contributed anything to anything. |
| 19:10.59 | DocScrutinizer | saracen: glamo sucks |
| 19:11.14 | DocScrutinizer | there will be no decent acceleration |
| 19:11.17 | saracen | Why was it chosen? |
| 19:11.25 | DocScrutinizer | ~glamo |
| 19:11.26 | apt | hmm... glamo is http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Alists.openmoko.org+glamo+raster |
| 19:11.31 | mickeyl | because we didn't knew |
| 19:11.37 | mickeyl | that it would perform so bad in VGA |
| 19:11.47 | mickeyl | s/knew/know/ |
| 19:11.57 | mickeyl | only when the driver has been written things became obvious |
| 19:12.04 | mickeyl | by that time, silicon existed and no way back |
| 19:12.15 | saracen | Ah =( |
| 19:12.27 | wurp2|working | my question is, why were significant changes (rather than just additions) made to gta01 hardware when it was the prototype, and FR supposed to be the finished product ;-) |
| 19:12.34 | beer_ | are they gonna change it when they make a new phone? |
| 19:12.37 | XorA | is the kind of things that happen when software guys need to design hardware because the hardware guys dropped the ball |
| 19:12.54 | mickeyl | wurp2|working: 01 hardware was broken in various areas |
| 19:13.01 | mickeyl | and some chips were EOL |
| 19:13.06 | wurp2|working | mickeyl: In the areas that were changed? |
| 19:13.07 | mickeyl | so there had to be a major redo anyways |
| 19:13.14 | mickeyl | wurp2|working: yes, of course |
| 19:13.22 | mickeyl | current leaks |
| 19:13.23 | mickeyl | gllin |
| 19:13.32 | mickeyl | bt/wolfson |
| 19:14.32 | wurp2|working | But the big gta02 problems seemed to be related to the sd bus usage and glamo... although I guess changing the gps to one supporting a more open driver was part of that |
| 19:14.41 | *** join/#openmoko _APz (n=fn-apz@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-fe19df00-212.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:16.09 | mickeyl | correct. the chip that we thought was the saviour of gfx performance turned out to be the killler |
| 19:16.14 | mickeyl | in a negative sense |
| 19:16.37 | mickeyl | and we wanted to add wifi |
| 19:16.42 | mickeyl | so had to find something with an SDIO port |
| 19:16.51 | saracen | So even if opengl were written for it, the glamo wouldnt be of much use? |
| 19:16.56 | saracen | opengl drivers* |
| 19:16.57 | mickeyl | correct |
| 19:17.04 | mickeyl | it's not about the drivers |
| 19:17.08 | mickeyl | it's about the hardware |
| 19:17.22 | mickeyl | it's pretty much maxxed out |
| 19:17.49 | saracen | Where do I get my refund? =) |
| 19:17.51 | *** join/#openmoko _APz (n=fn-apz@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-fe19df00-212.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:18.07 | mickeyl | ah well |
| 19:18.13 | mickeyl | you have a unique device |
| 19:18.15 | mickeyl | some parts suck |
| 19:18.17 | mickeyl | some parts rock |
| 19:18.21 | mickeyl | nothing else comes close |
| 19:18.35 | mickeyl | it definitely brought the movement forward |
| 19:18.39 | mickeyl | despite all its weaknesses |
| 19:18.40 | *** join/#openmoko plhardy (n=nullix@107.221.82-79.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 19:18.51 | saracen | haha :), yeah, I don't regret too much. Just the price I paid for it. =( |
| 19:18.59 | saracen | But oh well |
| 19:22.57 | wurp2|working | I like my gta01 quite a lot, even with all the trouble |
| 19:23.25 | XorA | must give his gta01 the gta02 treatment now |
| 19:23.55 | wurp2|working | I have a nice music player, usable video player, remote terminal, internet access (although browsing generally sucks), and gps with no monthly fee |
| 19:24.27 | wurp2|working | And on a device that I can stomach owning (not proprietary piece of crap preventing me from doing perfectly reasonable things) |
| 19:24.48 | mickey|tv | right |
| 19:25.12 | mickey|tv | and now that the middleware basically works, i expect much more development in UI sector |
| 19:25.16 | wurp2|working | Oh, and being able to connect a bt keyboard and have a tiny laptop is nice too |
| 19:25.49 | wurp2|working | or it would be nice, if bt kbd would still work on bluez4 |
| 19:25.57 | saracen | Yeah, I was expecting the software to be further along than it is (and didnt consider the hardware problems), but when I think about spending equal money on a phone with similar features that is tied to a monthly contract (iPhone, G1), I'm happy. |
| 19:27.05 | saracen | And then to make myself even happier, I think of the people that purchased this: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8289 |
| 19:28.10 | saracen | Could just buy a load of openmokos for asset tracking, and it'd work out cheaper =) |
| 19:28.18 | saracen | freerunners* |
| 19:28.19 | saracen | ;o |
| 19:29.21 | wurp2|working | saracen: wow, no kidding |
| 19:29.56 | saracen | So yeah, will be a good use for when I finally do upgrade my phone =) |
| 19:30.42 | *** join/#openmoko qhartman (n=qhartman@74-93-188-115-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:33.24 | fredrin | gah, flashed to latest shr testing on gta02 and can't get usb0 networking going.... |
| 19:35.39 | fredrin | depmod -a && ifdown usb0 && ifup usb0 dont work |
| 19:35.43 | fredrin | what else should i try? |
| 19:36.19 | max_posedon1 | flash new kernel? |
| 19:36.26 | fredrin | yes |
| 19:36.31 | max_posedon1 | compare uname -a |
| 19:36.50 | max_posedon1 | and ls /lib/modules |
| 19:36.57 | fredrin | .29-rc3 |
| 19:37.00 | *** join/#openmoko rddDavid51 (n=roudoudo@lns-bzn-20-82-64-17-163.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 19:37.37 | max_posedon1 | are you sure that they same? |
| 19:37.40 | fredrin | yes |
| 19:37.42 | ndnihil | hrm |
| 19:37.49 | ndnihil | I just did the latest shr testing on mine the other night |
| 19:37.51 | ndnihil | works great |
| 19:37.59 | fredrin | gah |
| 19:38.33 | ndnihil | not sure how they did it, but sound quality on calls is seriously improved |
| 19:38.41 | ndnihil | like they found a software fix for the buzz issue |
| 19:39.35 | saracen | Isn't it the person on the other end that receives a fair amount of buzz? |
| 19:39.38 | fredrin | http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2 |
| 19:39.53 | fredrin | ndnihil: is that the version you used? |
| 19:39.53 | saracen | It is in my case, but I dont know if thats just the freerunner performly badly under a weaker signal than my older mobile phone |
| 19:39.54 | ndnihil | saracen: yep, and I called myself, it's much improved |
| 19:40.09 | ndnihil | fredrin: the 04/22 version |
| 19:40.14 | fredrin | yeah |
| 19:40.29 | ndnihil | openmoko-shr-image-glibc-ipk--20090422-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 19:40.32 | ndnihil | gitr81c61a7d1abb03aecd13f5395aba355e996a1641-r3.4-om-gta02.bin |
| 19:40.36 | ndnihil | is what I flashed mine with |
| 19:40.43 | ndnihil | er |
| 19:40.50 | ndnihil | uImage-2.6.29-oe10+gitr81c61a7d1abb03aecd13f5395aba355e996a1641-r3.4-om-gta02.bin |
| 19:41.20 | *** join/#openmoko imcsk8 (n=ichavero@148.229.1.11) |
| 19:41.25 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.95.149) |
| 19:42.21 | *** part/#openmoko max_posedon1 (n=max_pose@93-243-252-87-dynamic-pool.gprs.mts.by) |
| 19:42.30 | fredrin | ndnihil: strange |
| 19:42.41 | pwerken | fredrin: see http://lists.projects.openmoko.org/pipermail/shr-devel/2009-April/001671.html |
| 19:44.12 | ndnihil | is the usbN interface coming up on your workstation/laptop? |
| 19:47.40 | *** join/#openmoko ayeuu (n=ayeuu@bearstech/ayeuu) |
| 19:47.42 | fredrin | k, got it working by changing usb0 --> eth1 in /etc/network/interfaces :) now ifup eth1 works |
| 19:47.47 | fredrin | phew |
| 19:48.21 | wurp2|working | fredrin: On the PC, yes? |
| 19:48.28 | fredrin | yes |
| 19:48.34 | fredrin | nothing changed on the FR |
| 19:48.51 | wurp2|working | Yeah, that was intentional - it's supposed to make autoconnection work better on most linuxes |
| 19:48.58 | wurp2|working | I guess it didn't work out that way for you ;-) |
| 19:49.13 | fredrin | nope, since i had old config and did not know about new config |
| 19:49.31 | fredrin | now i know and will reley the info to other people |
| 19:52.35 | *** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@12.186.229.30) |
| 20:01.50 | mwester | should be documented on the wiki |
| 20:02.57 | *** join/#openmoko qhartman (n=qhartman@74-93-188-113-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 20:06.07 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 20:08.58 | *** join/#openmoko selke (n=selke___@BAE847b.bae.pppool.de) |
| 20:08.58 | *** join/#openmoko kvaster (n=kvaster@live.bn.by) |
| 20:09.31 | *** part/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@HSI-KBW-091-089-004-028.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 20:10.12 | *** join/#openmoko m0nt0 (n=monto@151.57.184.39) |
| 20:10.28 | selke | hi guys, i've gotten my new openmoko freerunner today, and now i have my first problems, i want to install openmoko-terminal2 and i get the following errors: |
| 20:10.30 | selke | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:10.30 | selke | But that file is already provided by package * libglib-2.0-0 |
| 20:10.41 | selke | anyone know what to do? |
| 20:10.50 | johnsu01 | hmph, is anyone using the andy-tracking 15ca3dafb2662db4 kernel? it seems to not recognize the battery |
| 20:11.00 | johnsu01 | and is vomiting lots of HDQ errors in the logs |
| 20:11.04 | johnsu01 | then spontaneously shutting down |
| 20:18.24 | dent | selke: what distro are you running? |
| 20:18.36 | selke | om2008.8 as far as i know |
| 20:18.58 | dent | I suggest you forget bout OM* and go for SHR (or possible something else) |
| 20:20.27 | dent | http://shr-project.org/ |
| 20:20.35 | selke | okay thanks well i try it |
| 20:21.47 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: 03mok 07libframeworkd-glib * rde8be494f448 10/src/opimd/frameworkd-glib-opimd-contacts.c: |
| 20:21.48 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: opimd: use the async callback for deleting contacts |
| 20:21.48 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Klaus Kurzmann <mok@fluxnetz.de> |
| 20:28.56 | DocScrutinizer | nah, SHR is the word |
| 20:35.40 | |Marco| | yeah.. |
| 20:51.30 | fredrin | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:51.31 | fredrin | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:51.34 | fredrin | opkg update is not happy |
| 20:52.02 | |Marco| | fredrin: that's been happening in every distro I've tryd |
| 20:52.23 | |Marco| | what I've been told is to just /ignore it |
| 20:52.37 | fredrin | |Marco|: it cant download the package list |
| 20:52.54 | |Marco| | "ipk//al" |
| 20:53.09 | |Marco| | try setting it ti ONE slash |
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| 20:53.53 | |Marco| | s/ti/to |
| 20:55.50 | fredrin | |Marco|: did not make a difference |
| 20:56.03 | |Marco| | is the package there ? |
| 20:56.27 | fredrin | on the shr server? |
| 20:56.34 | |Marco| | mm |
| 20:56.39 | |Marco| | mhm |
| 20:58.11 | |Marco| | aka, can you wget the package ? |
| 20:59.41 | fredrin | |Marco|: maybe this is the problem http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing-bad/ <-- |
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| 21:04.12 | selke | how long does it take to flash shr? |
| 21:04.35 | selke | i took the image from shr-testing-bad is that "bad"?? |
| 21:04.51 | wurp2|working | selke: It is |
| 21:05.11 | selke | omg it's flashing... |
| 21:05.28 | wurp2|working | Well, you can just flash another image afterwards |
| 21:05.34 | selke | okay |
| 21:06.00 | XorA | heh we should implement one time flashing :-) |
| 21:09.32 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: 03ptitjes 07vala-dbus-binding-tool * r7417ea86f9c9 10/src/vala-dbus-binding-tool.vala: |
| 21:09.32 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: [#417 - Part 2] Use fso:type to reference string enumerations |
| 21:09.32 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Didier 'Ptitjes <ptitjes@free.fr> |
| 21:09.52 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-190-140.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) |
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| 21:14.05 | |Marco| | wurp2|working: "bad"? what's up ? |
| 21:14.46 | wurp2|working | There was some issue that may or may not have polluted the build |
| 21:14.58 | wurp2|working | I think mrmoku is checking into it |
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| 21:15.11 | |Marco| | okiday |
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| 21:15.54 | wurp2|working | Unfortunately I think you either have to find someone with the most recent good testing build, or wait. He is looking at it now, though |
| 21:16.21 | wurp2|working | I don't understand why the last build would be gone... or maybe it is there, just under the funny "bad" URL |
| 21:16.32 | |Marco| | hehe |
| 21:18.22 | wurp2|working | selke: Which image did you get? |
| 21:18.46 | wurp2|working | Per mrmoku the images Apr 22 or earlier are fine; just the feed is busted for now |
| 21:19.00 | wurp2|working | So I think I was wrong when I told you -bad was bad :-) |
| 21:19.34 | wurp2|working | |Marco|: see what I said to selke |
| 21:20.49 | selke | its running now :D |
| 21:21.00 | slaxxer | DID SOME FILES GET REPLACED? |
| 21:21.06 | slaxxer | ouch |
| 21:21.07 | selke | i got testing-bad |
| 21:21.33 | wurp2|working | selke: cool |
| 21:21.40 | selke | yeah :D |
| 21:22.11 | slaxxer | there still the same date |
| 21:22.12 | selke | its really cool |
| 21:22.26 | selke | but i can't find any keyboard in the terminal application |
| 21:22.40 | wurp2|working | selke: Tap the word terminal |
| 21:22.44 | wurp2|working | Then querty |
| 21:23.01 | selke | ahh thanks :D |
| 21:23.01 | slaxxer | upper rigght dropdown |
| 21:23.07 | selke | wow its so nice |
| 21:23.09 | wurp2|working | Then the icon on the upper right of the kbd, and pick terminal |
| 21:23.27 | wurp2|working | 'cause the default keyboard sucks IMO |
| 21:23.53 | slaxxer | pcal numbers are too small |
| 21:24.07 | wurp2|working | pcal? |
| 21:24.07 | selke | yeah got it :D |
| 21:24.11 | wurp2|working | Oh, the app |
| 21:24.14 | selke | wow |
| 21:25.03 | wurp2|working | selke: Yeah, lots of cool stuff. Enjoy the initial thrill; you'll find stuff to get frustrated with soon enough :-) |
| 21:25.10 | slaxxer | still way too slow though |
| 21:25.43 | wurp2|working | But SHR is the best release afaik... unless debian has been updating |
| 21:26.04 | wurp2|working | slaxxer: pcalc buttons too small? I don't really see how they could be bigger |
| 21:26.14 | *** part/#openmoko dwb (n=david@a177027.upc-a.chello.nl) |
| 21:28.57 | slaxxer | the letters an numbers not the buttons |
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| 21:29.54 | slaxxer | us old people need bigger fonts on a calculator |
| 21:30.07 | wurp2|working | Oh, I see. I agre |
| 21:30.11 | wurp2|working | e |
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| 21:35.17 | bricode | Anyone here from Cuba? |
| 21:40.06 | slaxxer | so has the usb networking section been updated |
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| 21:44.19 | selke | is there any standard application to connect to wlan on shr? |
| 21:59.40 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: 03ptitjes 07specs * rf714b36bae1f 10/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.xml.in: |
| 21:59.40 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: Example of dbus enumeration specification |
| 21:59.44 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Didier 'Ptitjes <ptitjes@free.fr> |
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| 22:10.49 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r3d98cdb43703 10/framework/resource.py: |
| 22:10.49 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: resource: ran into the same logic error as last time. We can only check the resource status |
| 22:10.49 | CIA-45 | freesmartphone.org: at the time the command is actually being performed. |
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| 22:16.37 | plhardy | here my first official contribution : a very simple drawing to sumarize audio connector description : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Analog_wired_Headset#Neo_1973, i hope it is right. ( i have been told when i was young that a good picture replace all possible explanations ). |
| 22:18.16 | plhardy | i wonder why there are FreeRunner & Neo 1973 since it seems to be same pin order... |
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| 23:32.47 | staale | Is it safe to add the fso-testing feeds to opkg when running shr-testing? |
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