| 00:03.35 | ndnihil | just in time for it to be cancelled |
| 00:07.08 | SpeedEvil | I have GTA03s for sale. Only $100. |
| 00:07.24 | SpeedEvil | puts away the pile of housebricks and marker. |
| 00:07.43 | ndnihil | eh, no wifi, cant be bothered |
| 00:07.44 | ndnihil | :) |
| 00:07.44 | hipitihop | hurah, android panicking seems to boot fine with Qi |
| 00:12.39 | mwester | fishes some old paper from the trash bin, tears it up into pound-size pieces, fetches a few colored markers, and asks SpeedEvil where to send the $100 for the GTA03. |
| 00:16.27 | *** join/#openmoko f3nix (n=f3nix@gdg19.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 00:17.54 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:24.30 | fredrin | is streaming mp3 and playing music at the same time with the FR :D |
| 00:24.44 | mwester | now try making a phone call. |
| 00:24.59 | fredrin | i can call you, hehe |
| 00:25.14 | mwester | BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!! |
| 00:29.32 | hipitihop | hmmm, seems android can't read contacts off the sim :-( |
| 00:33.29 | *** join/#openmoko slaxxin (n=brian@ip72-204-125-6.fv.ks.cox.net) |
| 00:41.01 | fredrin | likes the thought of mwester dollars, backed by mwester himself |
| 00:41.35 | SpeedEvil | 'Promise to pay the bearer on demand - one pound of mwester' |
| 00:41.51 | fredrin | how many hours do that translate into? |
| 00:42.11 | fredrin | or the international currency beer |
| 00:43.35 | fredrin | we should have moko credits |
| 00:48.19 | *** join/#openmoko Piet (i=pietor@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xC5C71DCE) |
| 00:55.00 | *** join/#openmoko KenYoung (n=Ken@pool-151-199-57-180.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:59.36 | hipitihop | well, given android a few minutes and although some nice features, I think I'm ready to reflash to something else |
| 01:00.57 | fredrin | psst shr |
| 01:02.36 | slaxxin | unstable |
| 01:02.47 | *** join/#openmoko knguyen (n=knguyen@70.162.185.138) |
| 01:03.44 | KenYoung | psychopathic |
| 01:05.28 | hipitihop | fredrin: I assume from here : http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/ |
| 01:05.55 | *** join/#openmoko jmau_ (n=jmau@port-92-202-13-133.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 01:06.16 | *** join/#openmoko Defiant- (i=erik@c168060.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 01:06.19 | fredrin | or unstable http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/ |
| 01:06.31 | fredrin | that i think soon is going to be testing |
| 01:06.37 | slaxxin | http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/ |
| 01:06.57 | hipitihop | fredrin: I see, sorry. Do I need all the modules-*.tgz also ? |
| 01:07.10 | slaxxin | intone rocks |
| 01:08.15 | fredrin | http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2 |
| 01:08.24 | fredrin | http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin |
| 01:08.53 | fredrin | intone is sweet |
| 01:10.03 | *** join/#openmoko jpieper (n=jpieper@207-180-187-171.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 01:10.34 | slaxxin | kernel-module-whiteheat_2.6.28 |
| 01:10.43 | slaxxin | what the hell |
| 01:10.54 | slaxxin | opkg upgraded |
| 01:11.36 | slaxxin | i guess i will see |
| 01:12.03 | *** join/#openmoko jpieper (n=jpieper@207-180-187-171.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 01:14.32 | *** join/#openmoko jpieper (n=jpieper@207-180-187-171.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 01:14.40 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) |
| 01:25.58 | fredrin | hipitihop: done? |
| 01:26.20 | rooly | hey, does this link work for anyone? |
| 01:26.27 | rooly | http://www.darkspace.net |
| 01:26.42 | fredrin | fail |
| 01:27.05 | rooly | damnit |
| 01:28.09 | slaxxin | looks like opkg upgrade just changed everything on me phone |
| 01:29.47 | fredrin | like what? |
| 01:30.07 | slaxxin | every frikin thing |
| 01:30.23 | rooly | does it look differently? |
| 01:30.38 | *** join/#openmoko QB1 (n=danielqb@200.118.167.17) |
| 01:30.57 | slaxxin | i have to reboot |
| 01:32.27 | slaxxin | added pCalc |
| 01:32.35 | slaxxin | calculator |
| 01:32.59 | slaxxin | i was checking to see if things worked before reboot |
| 01:34.12 | fredrin | http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2009/04/wile-e-reality-catches-up-to-freerunner.html lol |
| 01:37.09 | hipitihop | fredrin: still downloading image |
| 01:40.45 | *** join/#openmoko lymeca (n=lymeca@213-213-141-71.xdsl.is) |
| 01:40.53 | lymeca | How can I view missed calls in SHR? |
| 01:41.06 | fredrin | lymeca: phonelog |
| 01:41.27 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-71-198-208-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:41.39 | *** join/#openmoko d-b_ (n=alias@203-158-46-194.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:42.51 | *** join/#openmoko freelock_ (n=john@logan.freelock.com) |
| 01:43.36 | slaxxin | looks like shr opkg upgraded just fine:) |
| 01:43.45 | slaxxin | unstable |
| 01:44.22 | slaxxin | no sound |
| 01:44.36 | fredrin | have you run depmod ? |
| 01:44.42 | Dave | How are you gentlemen? |
| 01:44.49 | fredrin | if lots of modules got upgaded |
| 01:44.51 | slaxxin | nope |
| 01:44.56 | fredrin | alt bra |
| 01:45.04 | lymeca | damn...phonelog crashes every time I try to open it |
| 01:45.22 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@79-66-107-124.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 01:45.52 | Dave | alt dot crash |
| 01:46.11 | lymeca | "stopped running unexpectedly" "code of 1 was returned fro python /usr/bin/python..." "there was no error messa... |
| 01:46.13 | fredrin | crash |
| 01:46.32 | lymeca | A series of badly placed windows |
| 01:46.57 | slaxxin | lymeca which os? |
| 01:49.04 | slaxxin | shr unstable or testing? |
| 01:52.13 | slaxxin | who is modifying the shr kernels? |
| 01:52.41 | lymeca | testing |
| 01:52.42 | hipitihop | fredrin: seems to be a slow server, only getting 12kb/sec |
| 01:56.07 | ndnihil | $ opkg install http://www.opkg.org/packages/pong_0.1_armv4t.ipk |
| 01:56.07 | ndnihil | Downloading http://www.opkg.org/packages/pong_0.1_armv4t.ipk |
| 01:56.07 | ndnihil | Terminated |
| 01:56.15 | ndnihil | any ideas what would cause that? |
| 01:56.18 | ndnihil | seen it on a few packages |
| 01:56.54 | ndnihil | wget'ing the file works fine |
| 01:57.19 | ndnihil | but then |
| 01:57.19 | Dave | <:P |
| 01:57.19 | ndnihil | $ opkg install pong_0.1_armv4t.ipk |
| 01:57.19 | ndnihil | Terminated |
| 01:58.03 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkman (n=zork@78-22-123-127.access.telenet.be) |
| 01:58.28 | mwester | ndnihil: OOM killer |
| 01:59.04 | ndnihil | googles |
| 01:59.28 | ndnihil | short of memory eh |
| 01:59.33 | mwester | Check if you have something filling up /var/volatile (which is where /tmp redirects) |
| 02:00.02 | ndnihil | volatile 60400 8460 51940 14% /var/volatile |
| 02:00.07 | ndnihil | shoudl be plenty of space |
| 02:00.12 | ndnihil | s/shoudl/should/ |
| 02:00.14 | mwester | You may not be short of memory, opkg is just one of the most horribly-written apps ever created, and it trips the OOM killer when you have plenty left. |
| 02:00.29 | ndnihil | gotcha |
| 02:01.26 | ndnihil | strange that it only does it on specific packages |
| 02:01.29 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 02:02.54 | DukeOfURL | hey! the wiki talks about Android for the FreeRunner. Has it been ported to the Neo? Thanks. |
| 02:03.50 | Dave | Pong? :p |
| 02:04.32 | ndnihil | yes pong |
| 02:04.37 | ndnihil | it was my first video game |
| 02:04.39 | ndnihil | I loved it |
| 02:05.33 | *** join/#openmoko mogren (i=893deae1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-085f142b62c58293) |
| 02:06.56 | ndnihil | wow, omnewrotate actually works pretty well |
| 02:08.47 | *** part/#openmoko QB1 (n=danielqb@200.118.167.17) |
| 02:10.28 | ndnihil | hah, this is great |
| 02:10.33 | ndnihil | http://www.opkg.org/package_138.html |
| 02:10.37 | ndnihil | "look what I wrote honey?" |
| 02:10.41 | ndnihil | er |
| 02:10.45 | ndnihil | s/?/! |
| 02:10.47 | ndnihil | / |
| 02:10.56 | ndnihil | I bet that went over well |
| 02:11.20 | ndnihil | "oh look, phone says its time for you to stfu" |
| 02:13.33 | mwester | oh my |
| 02:15.42 | ndnihil | I'm tempted to break it out next time girl starts screeching about something |
| 02:16.02 | ndnihil | I bet the response will be worth it |
| 02:16.51 | slaxxin | ha |
| 02:17.18 | hipitihop | DukeOfURL: yes running it on my gta02 at the moment but fair bit still broken |
| 02:17.21 | mwester | suspects that it could be worse; the shape of the neo would make it easier as she shoves it down one's throat. |
| 02:17.27 | slaxxin | booting todays shr unstable |
| 02:20.08 | *** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:21.19 | slaxxin | well the selection menu at first boot sucks since it doesnt work correctly |
| 02:21.41 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-99-2-134-30.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:21.43 | *** join/#openmoko f3nix (n=f3nix@gdg19.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 02:23.44 | fredrin | me likes opkg install http://www.opkg.org/packages/OptimSMS_1.1_armv4t.opk and opkg install http://www.opkg.org/packages/illume-keyboards-numbers-alt_0.3_all.opk |
| 02:31.22 | ndnihil | does anyone else get random defunct xset processes? |
| 02:34.10 | *** join/#openmoko fredrin_ (n=workingn@r190-133-131-157.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 02:35.32 | *** join/#openmoko netx (n=netx@horus.darkempire.org) |
| 02:37.52 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-71-198-208-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:39.17 | *** part/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-71-198-208-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:42.55 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-99-2-134-30.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:44.40 | Dave | -_- |
| 02:45.04 | *** join/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@12.151.197.98) |
| 02:50.10 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@212-183-114-48.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 02:50.10 | fredrin_ | DAVE |
| 02:50.30 | fredrin_ | broken anythings? |
| 02:55.37 | slaxxin | intone fails on latest shr -unstasble |
| 02:58.37 | *** join/#openmoko Mek (n=marijn@93.157.1.37) |
| 02:58.41 | *** part/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@12.151.197.98) |
| 03:00.03 | fredrin | not here |
| 03:05.36 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.64.23) |
| 03:05.44 | slaxxin | hmmm |
| 03:06.54 | *** join/#openmoko pcfe` (n=pcfe@a88-115-14-44.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 03:07.32 | *** join/#openmoko astrocub (n=cloud@unaffiliated/ibuffy) |
| 03:17.43 | slaxxin | 03252009 is the 1 so far |
| 03:18.14 | slaxxin | too many settings icons on the latest |
| 03:20.29 | Chocky | moo |
| 03:38.02 | Dave | MOO |
| 03:38.12 | Chocky | Big D. |
| 03:39.01 | *** join/#openmoko gfather1 (n=g@77.241.65.48) |
| 03:45.05 | re-peat | Dave! |
| 03:45.31 | hipitihop | Dave, what distro are you running these days |
| 03:46.13 | re-peat | i'm using the latest unstable build of shr |
| 03:47.05 | re-peat | not bad |
| 03:48.40 | Chocky | Dave is running all of them. Especialy, secretly, Qtopia |
| 03:49.09 | re-peat | heh more like secrety windows ce |
| 03:53.59 | Chocky | running Emdebian :p |
| 03:55.37 | *** join/#openmoko bergelin (n=bergelin@c80-216-138-191.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 03:56.55 | hipitihop | does shr have a PIM |
| 03:57.53 | fredrin | nah |
| 03:58.21 | fredrin | but you can save contacts to the sim |
| 03:59.47 | hipitihop | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:59.59 | fredrin | wait |
| 04:00.00 | *** join/#openmoko BillK_ (n=Bill@203.59.139.142) |
| 04:00.08 | fredrin | Qi don't give much info |
| 04:00.19 | hipitihop | or progress |
| 04:00.26 | fredrin | nada |
| 04:00.40 | hipitihop | less is more at times ;-) |
| 04:01.18 | *** join/#openmoko GunsNRose (n=GunsNRos@222.212.49.92) |
| 04:01.42 | hipitihop | starts to tap fingers |
| 04:01.56 | fredrin | first boot? |
| 04:02.03 | hipitihop | yes |
| 04:02.11 | fredrin | that takes longer time |
| 04:02.43 | fredrin | and a reboot after first boot is also recomended.... |
| 04:03.00 | hipitihop | still have uSD left in from previous trial of Android, so has fat + ext3 partition |
| 04:03.00 | fredrin | if you got trouble with connecting over usb and ssh |
| 04:05.35 | *** join/#openmoko MokoN00b (n=ironmonk@118-160-163-82.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 04:06.05 | hipitihop | starting to get concerned, still nothing |
| 04:07.46 | Chocky | http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/02/27/funny-pictures-concerned-kitteh/ |
| 04:08.55 | hipitihop | surely can't take that long to boot first time, something must have gone wrong |
| 04:09.50 | Dave | :P |
| 04:10.03 | Chocky | It speaks. |
| 04:10.08 | Dave | Yes |
| 04:10.41 | Chocky | hm. Poking at e17 under Debian. |
| 04:11.22 | *** join/#openmoko slaxxin (n=brian@ip72-204-125-6.fv.ks.cox.net) |
| 04:13.54 | Dave | :) |
| 04:14.12 | Chocky | thing is, why don't I get any desktop icons? |
| 04:14.41 | hipitihop | ok, second boot attempt seems to be working... asking fro profile "illume" or "illume shr" what is the recommended |
| 04:14.49 | Chocky | heh |
| 04:15.29 | hipitihop | I assdume I can switch later anyway, so picking shr |
| 04:15.38 | Chocky | blow-by-blow noob. |
| 04:15.46 | Dave | BUGGED! |
| 04:16.18 | fredrin | hipitihop: you can change everythign it's OPEN :D |
| 04:17.11 | *** join/#openmoko ttols (n=ttols@210.105.51.52) |
| 04:17.18 | Dave | hah! |
| 04:17.39 | Dave | That doesn't preclude it from being useless or unhelpful. |
| 04:17.40 | Dave | :) |
| 04:17.53 | Chocky | laffs |
| 04:18.22 | fredrin | lol, it's oooooopen |
| 04:18.54 | fredrin | http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2009/04/wile-e-reality-catches-up-to-freerunner.html <--- LOL |
| 04:19.57 | Chocky | stabs lolusers. |
| 04:20.16 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.64.23) |
| 04:20.57 | Chocky | Apart from it being an obvious troll, of a bad slashdot headline, it's clearly wrong :p |
| 04:21.16 | Chocky | And bad grammar :p |
| 04:24.06 | Dave | YES |
| 04:24.20 | Chocky | Besides, OM was never ALIVE. |
| 04:24.33 | Chocky | OM DEFIES DEATH! |
| 04:24.43 | Chocky | </Drama Dave> |
| 04:25.05 | Dave | :D |
| 04:25.11 | Dave | A tribute to me, I see :) |
| 04:25.13 | Dave | thanks :p |
| 04:25.53 | Chocky | A mixed blessing, to be sure. |
| 04:26.10 | hipitihop | fredrin: yes realise that :-) sorry to all for my noise.. getting pam error on screen lock |
| 04:26.24 | Dave | :) |
| 04:26.41 | fredrin | hipitihop: it's cool man |
| 04:26.44 | fredrin | :) |
| 04:29.17 | Dave | kuuuuuuuuuuuuuu |
| 04:30.12 | hipitihop | well just missed a real call, tried to accept and it kept vibrating, no sound and couldn't pick it up grrr |
| 04:31.53 | ndnihil | have you upgraded the GSM firmware? |
| 04:32.07 | hipitihop | ndnihil: yes, moko11 |
| 04:33.09 | ndnihil | doh, that was my only suggestion :) |
| 04:33.34 | hipitihop | actually can't hear a thing when I try and establish a call either |
| 04:35.22 | ndnihil | strange, mine works pretty decent for calls |
| 04:35.28 | ndnihil | what dist you running? |
| 04:37.22 | hipitihop | ndnihil: just trying shr unstable as per someone's recommendation here ... pretty, a little sluggish and certainly fails on teh first few minutes end user test |
| 04:37.51 | ndnihil | well there you go, the "unstable" part of "SHR unstable" should tell you something :) |
| 04:38.02 | hipitihop | ndnihil: been using qt-extended for months. tried Android this morning, threw that out. |
| 04:38.02 | ndnihil | I'm using SHR testing fwiw |
| 04:38.18 | fredrin | my bad... unstable works nice for me |
| 04:38.22 | fredrin | just updated today |
| 04:39.42 | hipitihop | fredrin: not your fault, certainly looks nice.. just rebooted again to see if things improve re calls |
| 04:45.13 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-99-2-134-30.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:49.31 | *** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 04:51.25 | hipitihop | fredrin: ok, after finding advanced mixer setting, managed to turn off mute and now can at least hear the call and others can hear me, albeit muffled and far away, so a start I guess |
| 04:53.30 | fredrin | hipitihop: :) and if it aint broken, tweak it :) |
| 04:53.31 | fredrin | http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Tweaks |
| 04:58.32 | *** join/#openmoko GunsNRose_ (n=GunsNRos@222.212.49.92) |
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| 05:07.54 | MokoN00b | is raster up yet? |
| 05:08.36 | fredrin | had ssh over wifi with wpa2 encryption going for a sec, untill it suspended |
| 05:11.33 | MokoN00b | why encrypt wifi when youre using ssh over it? |
| 05:11.59 | fredrin | MokoN00b: i'm using the neighbours wifi |
| 05:12.13 | fredrin | dont want to mess with his settings and i dont have the password to the router |
| 05:12.45 | MokoN00b | hahahahaha |
| 05:12.52 | MokoN00b | :) |
| 05:13.58 | *** join/#openmoko Shlee (n=quassel@219-90-167-101.ip.adam.com.au) |
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| 05:57.17 | ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/06/openmoko/ <-- hmm |
| 05:58.07 | MokoN00b | yeah, i got on to discuss that yesterday |
| 05:58.22 | KenYoung | ruskie, If that interests you, there's a lot of discussion about it on the community mailing list. |
| 05:58.30 | MokoN00b | they are going to plan B (whatever that is) |
| 05:59.00 | KenYoung | MokoN00b, For the time being (at least the rest of '09) yes. |
| 05:59.14 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 05:59.21 | MokoN00b | i hope plan B is good |
| 05:59.31 | MokoN00b | it would be a shame to have openmoko disappear |
| 05:59.35 | MokoN00b | especially now |
| 05:59.44 | KenYoung | MokoN00b, I certainly agree. |
| 05:59.52 | MokoN00b | since the greatest opportunity exists now |
| 06:00.07 | MokoN00b | android is nearly impotent |
| 06:00.12 | KenYoung | THey really do seem close to making the Freerunner into a real phone. |
| 06:00.18 | MokoN00b | the iphone cant run more than one app at a time |
| 06:00.44 | MokoN00b | and smart phones have hit a plateu |
| 06:00.58 | MokoN00b | most users cant even see why they need anything more than a phone |
| 06:01.04 | KenYoung | MokoN00b, The iPhone can, of course, run more thatn one ap at a time. Apple just won't allow that for 3rd party aps. |
| 06:01.33 | MokoN00b | but the browser and GPS are built in |
| 06:01.36 | ruskie | KenYoung, yeah I'm subscribed to the ML but it's really heavy traffic so I don't manage to follow everything |
| 06:01.39 | MokoN00b | and you have to close one to use the other |
| 06:02.25 | MokoN00b | and i recently found that the android media player doesnt even play video |
| 06:02.35 | MokoN00b | im still shocked about that |
| 06:02.49 | *** join/#openmoko pazante (n=patrik@user113.77-105-224.netatonce.net) |
| 06:02.52 | KenYoung | MokoN00b, But it's an artificial limitation Apple could drop at any time. I'm not claiming it's good, but the basic OS allows background aps. |
| 06:02.58 | MokoN00b | how can a stock media player not play video |
| 06:02.58 | ruskie | I'm more and more thinking about getting a freerunner... but as one of the commenters on that post said... a hw keyboard(or in his case kb OR camera) would clinch the deal.... |
| 06:03.12 | MokoN00b | i agree with that |
| 06:03.28 | KenYoung | I am not sorry I have purchased Freerunners. |
| 06:03.30 | MokoN00b | if there was some way to buy a keyboard that would attach to it, it would be an awesome device |
| 06:03.39 | MokoN00b | neither am i |
| 06:03.48 | MokoN00b | i like the freerunner very much |
| 06:04.02 | ruskie | I'll probably buy it in a few months time depending on cashflow |
| 06:04.09 | MokoN00b | i like being able to switch OSes like i do on a desktop |
| 06:04.12 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-088-065-087-099.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 06:04.51 | *** join/#openmoko Cervajz (n=Cervajz@48.156.broadband12.iol.cz) |
| 06:04.52 | MokoN00b | i like being able to have a desktop on a small screen, too |
| 06:05.00 | ruskie | then I need to find someone who can design hardware and have some capabilities to fab it... |
| 06:05.17 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 06:05.18 | ruskie | would like to see a keypad made for it... in a slide out config |
| 06:05.48 | MokoN00b | considering the current design, that would be difficult |
| 06:05.58 | ruskie | would redesign the case as well ;) |
| 06:06.00 | MokoN00b | but a keyboard with a clip to hold the unit might be doable |
| 06:06.15 | ruskie | since I don't really like the current design... ;) |
| 06:06.18 | MokoN00b | is raster up yet? |
| 06:06.28 | *** join/#openmoko mithris (n=mithris@ua-83-227-219-197.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 06:06.32 | MokoN00b | i really want to see his future phone sketch from yesterday |
| 06:06.35 | ruskie | though is is all in sometime in the future dreaming |
| 06:07.04 | MokoN00b | i figure if they could just get the whole thing behind the screen, it would be nice enough |
| 06:07.20 | MokoN00b | at least that way, my girlfriend would stop calling it "king kong" |
| 06:07.33 | KenYoung | Dreaming is easy. You've gotta give OM some credit. They actually got a hardware product out the door. |
| 06:07.41 | MokoN00b | i agree |
| 06:07.56 | MokoN00b | in fact, the hardware is nice |
| 06:08.12 | KenYoung | 'cept for Glamo |
| 06:08.16 | MokoN00b | its better than anything ive ever seen from nokia |
| 06:08.34 | raster | MokoN00b: ya. up. |
| 06:08.43 | MokoN00b | :) |
| 06:08.51 | MokoN00b | so, did you finish your sketch yesterday? |
| 06:08.57 | MokoN00b | i want a new dream |
| 06:08.59 | MokoN00b | :) |
| 06:09.30 | raster | http://www.rasterman.com/files/openphone-mk2.png |
| 06:09.34 | ruskie | and also waiting on the openpandora... though iirc that one also has some non-Free hw bits... |
| 06:09.50 | raster | ruskie: those bits can be ignored |
| 06:09.51 | fredrin | i saw it |
| 06:10.03 | raster | you dont need them |
| 06:10.06 | ruskie | true |
| 06:10.13 | ruskie | raster, hmm where's the hw keypad in there? |
| 06:10.27 | ruskie | or just not rendered or hidden? |
| 06:10.36 | ndnihil | you know, that blank bottom area would be great for OLED icons and touch sensitive surface |
| 06:10.54 | MokoN00b | is the black space at the bottom for a keypad? |
| 06:11.19 | ruskie | ndnihil, needs to be hw keypad... |
| 06:11.21 | raster | ruskie: there isnt one |
| 06:11.23 | ndnihil | screen is kinda long'ish no? |
| 06:11.24 | ruskie | :( |
| 06:11.39 | ruskie | a hw keypad should be a must on everything... |
| 06:11.39 | raster | yes |
| 06:11.44 | raster | its a 320x640 screen |
| 06:11.54 | MokoN00b | im thinking of widescreen movies on the phone |
| 06:12.02 | raster | ruskie: iphone doesnt seem to think so |
| 06:12.08 | ndnihil | oooh, and I see a place to put the stylus |
| 06:12.08 | raster | neither do now a dozen other phones |
| 06:12.11 | ndnihil | I'll buy two |
| 06:12.13 | raster | its not a must |
| 06:12.17 | raster | its a source of problems |
| 06:12.28 | raster | the more mechanical bits u have - the harder it is |
| 06:12.42 | raster | and stylus wont work |
| 06:12.46 | raster | it'd be capacitive |
| 06:12.48 | raster | use fingers |
| 06:12.51 | raster | no need for stylus |
| 06:12.53 | ndnihil | argh no |
| 06:12.57 | *** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@ip72-219-145-48.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 06:12.58 | ndnihil | my hands are huge |
| 06:13.04 | ruskie | still can't be blind typed on it... |
| 06:13.06 | MokoN00b | i figure the speaker space could be reduced to a fraction of what it is |
| 06:13.12 | raster | no it cant |
| 06:13.22 | raster | but mechanical stuff is generally a problem |
| 06:13.25 | MokoN00b | okay, why not? |
| 06:13.25 | MokoN00b | :) |
| 06:13.36 | raster | because it is a source of breakage |
| 06:13.45 | raster | and make mechanical design much harder |
| 06:13.47 | ruskie | everything is a source of breakage |
| 06:13.57 | raster | as now you have a lot of fiddly parts that fall off and break |
| 06:14.11 | ruskie | depends how it's designed... |
| 06:14.19 | raster | the thing is long in order to have room for separate 2g/3g modules |
| 06:14.26 | ruskie | other cell phones seem to handle not falling to pieces pretty well |
| 06:14.28 | MokoN00b | i like the curved surface |
| 06:14.29 | raster | so you can plug in ewither 2g or 3g on a separate board |
| 06:14.39 | MokoN00b | so, youve planned the internals as well? |
| 06:14.43 | fredrin | can one have other capasative surfuces |
| 06:14.43 | raster | ruskie: unlessa you have a genius mechanical design guy sitting there... |
| 06:14.46 | raster | whcih we dont |
| 06:14.51 | raster | MokoN00b: yes. |
| 06:14.54 | ruskie | ahhh |
| 06:14.55 | raster | just havent drawn them up |
| 06:14.55 | KenYoung | raster, Why separate 2g/3g ? Why both? |
| 06:14.55 | MokoN00b | kewl |
| 06:15.08 | raster | there is room for led's in the bottom panel for status and indicators |
| 06:15.18 | raster | KenYoung: 3g is much more expensive |
| 06:15.18 | MokoN00b | thats a good question |
| 06:15.18 | fredrin | they started a gta03 mailinglist.... |
| 06:15.30 | MokoN00b | isnt 3g backwards compatible with 2g? |
| 06:15.31 | raster | KenYoung: add 3g and price will go up by $250 |
| 06:15.39 | raster | (compared to 2g) |
| 06:15.51 | MokoN00b | im assuming this includes wifi |
| 06:15.57 | raster | yes |
| 06:16.01 | ndnihil | nobody is going to opt for the 2g version |
| 06:16.03 | fredrin | blah, get a free 3d bluetooth/usb moden for 0,- with a subscription |
| 06:16.07 | raster | just the baseband (2g or 3g) is pluggable |
| 06:16.12 | raster | due to patnent/licenses and cost |
| 06:16.13 | MokoN00b | 2g + wifi = 4g |
| 06:16.17 | MokoN00b | better than 3g |
| 06:16.19 | raster | 3g is a lot more expensive than 2g |
| 06:16.25 | MokoN00b | except in japan |
| 06:16.26 | raster | MokoN00b: absolutely not |
| 06:16.31 | fredrin | good wifi is super important |
| 06:16.33 | ndnihil | 3g is also the "standard" these days |
| 06:16.34 | ruskie | hmm why is the screen curved? |
| 06:16.36 | raster | 3g can do up to 7mbit |
| 06:16.37 | ruskie | why not flat? |
| 06:16.41 | fredrin | at least here in south america |
| 06:16.43 | raster | and unlike wifi.. it WORKS most places |
| 06:16.47 | raster | wifi barely works |
| 06:16.48 | ndnihil | 2.5g is the hot shit |
| 06:16.49 | ruskie | yeah |
| 06:16.51 | raster | it will drop out as you walk |
| 06:16.54 | fredrin | where 3g is just a joke and a sales thing |
| 06:16.55 | ndnihil | er |
| 06:16.56 | ruskie | 3g works nicely |
| 06:16.57 | ndnihil | 3.5g |
| 06:17.02 | *** join/#openmoko polymar_ (n=polymar@ip72-219-131-110.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 06:17.04 | raster | it will require you sign up for at least 2 or 3 hotspot providers and pay extra |
| 06:17.08 | ruskie | unlimited data plans ftw |
| 06:17.10 | raster | and then opnly use it when in those hotspots |
| 06:17.15 | fredrin | everytihhng is 3G 3.5G 3.7G |
| 06:17.18 | raster | wifi is useful primarily for when at home or the office |
| 06:17.22 | raster | on the go its useless |
| 06:17.24 | *** join/#openmoko freerunnerlive (n=ernst@p57B5FBA9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:17.28 | MokoN00b | i agree that 3g sucks |
| 06:17.48 | MokoN00b | but it looks like we will all be forced to pay qualcomm |
| 06:18.00 | ruskie | gotta love stupid patents |
| 06:18.07 | raster | 3g is the only way in .au to get sane data rates |
| 06:18.07 | fredrin | raster: when at friends, hostels, walking, in parks, bars, clubs wifi is important |
| 06:18.11 | raster | for starters |
| 06:18.17 | MokoN00b | i agree that wifi roaming sucks |
| 06:18.19 | raster | they charge about 100x as much for data over 2g |
| 06:18.23 | raster | and wifi is just a mess |
| 06:18.35 | raster | unliek your telco u cant just "subscribe" and have it work wherever you go |
| 06:18.35 | fredrin | MokoN00b: only because it's not done right |
| 06:18.41 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 06:18.49 | MokoN00b | wifi is nice when you are stationary |
| 06:18.50 | raster | the FACT is its an infra you cant change |
| 06:18.52 | raster | thats life |
| 06:18.57 | raster | no point fighting it |
| 06:19.01 | raster | it wont make an impact |
| 06:19.01 | raster | best to go WITHित |
| 06:19.05 | fredrin | but the tech don't exist in markets where the phone could sell well |
| 06:19.09 | raster | WITH it |
| 06:19.24 | raster | fredrin: like where? |
| 06:19.34 | raster | its too expensive to sell anywhere except the developed western world |
| 06:19.36 | fredrin | uruguay and argentina and brazi9l |
| 06:20.09 | MokoN00b | yeah, well, is there a way that a handset could be designed that would allow wifi roaming like a cellphone without any help from the network operators? |
| 06:20.10 | raster | i doubt it |
| 06:20.33 | raster | it'd cost about $550 just for the base with NO 2g or 3g |
| 06:20.38 | raster | ass $100 for 2g |
| 06:20.49 | raster | hmm wait |
| 06:20.51 | raster | $500 for base |
| 06:20.54 | raster | $100 for 2g |
| 06:20.56 | raster | $250 for 3g |
| 06:21.03 | raster | (thats add) |
| 06:21.25 | raster | in argentina/brazil thats far beyond what all but the wealthiest can afford |
| 06:21.31 | KenYoung | Bait and switch |
| 06:21.32 | fredrin | roaming is not sooo important when you have gprs, more when you are at the same places everytime, it's good to be connected to wifi just for a bit |
| 06:21.35 | raster | UNLESS you can sell millions of them |
| 06:21.49 | fredrin | people in brasil have more money |
| 06:21.51 | raster | if this is just an open linux phone u may sell 50,000 |
| 06:21.54 | MokoN00b | yeah, but in china, just about everyone could afford that |
| 06:22.06 | raster | whihc in the scheme of making hardware like phones is nothing |
| 06:22.26 | raster | its so tiny most supliers wont even answer the phone for an order of parts under 100,000 units |
| 06:22.34 | raster | its not wirth their time to ev en sign the sales contract |
| 06:22.42 | MokoN00b | hard to say |
| 06:22.47 | fredrin | open and linux phone is not so big selling point for a _good_ phone, relative to what ever good is |
| 06:22.58 | raster | so you end up buying in small quantities |
| 06:23.01 | MokoN00b | right now all the semiconductor businesses are so hurting for anything, they might do it |
| 06:23.10 | raster | nokia pay $20 for a chip you will have to pay $100 for |
| 06:23.20 | raster | because nokia buy 5 million of them |
| 06:23.27 | raster | you buy 10,000 |
| 06:23.27 | fredrin | use the finacial crisis for all it's good for :) |
| 06:23.30 | MokoN00b | too bad we cant get someone like nokia to help us |
| 06:24.01 | MokoN00b | yeah, a couple of months ago TSMCs business dropped to zero |
| 06:24.06 | MokoN00b | scary |
| 06:24.33 | MokoN00b | is that pyramid a docking station? |
| 06:24.40 | ruskie | hmm I need to figure out if I could power the 3g dongle on a powerpack while still have it plugged into the freerunner... |
| 06:24.44 | husku | raster: you can get decent, durable, longlasting nokia for 40⬠in Finland, brand new without any strings attached. <-- means, masses wont buy >400$ phone to get something that remotely looks like a phone. |
| 06:25.03 | raster | husku: then give up and go home |
| 06:25.08 | raster | without volume u cant compete on price |
| 06:25.08 | husku | raster: no! |
| 06:25.10 | raster | simple as that |
| 06:25.16 | raster | also note |
| 06:25.23 | raster | you really need to say what phone it is |
| 06:25.27 | raster | its probably a standard featurephone |
| 06:25.34 | raster | that means no separate CPU for the os |
| 06:25.39 | raster | runing everything integrated on 1 chip |
| 06:25.43 | raster | everything low specs |
| 06:25.51 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 06:25.52 | raster | ALSO note that nokia are one of the major patent holders for 3g |
| 06:25.54 | husku | raster: i just mean that talks about developing countries adopting mokos, i cant see that happening since (at least for me) moko represents a "luxury hobby object" |
| 06:26.03 | MokoN00b | and we all need more stuff from smartphones |
| 06:26.04 | raster | everyone else has tyo pay patent royalties TO nokia |
| 06:26.10 | raster | nokia can just pay $0 to themselves |
| 06:26.17 | raster | thus you will NEVEr compete with nokia |
| 06:26.22 | raster | unless you too are in that boat |
| 06:26.24 | raster | eg like qualcomm |
| 06:26.44 | raster | husku: yup. i dont see an open phone being able to be cheap |
| 06:26.49 | raster | it just is very uinlikeluy |
| 06:26.51 | MokoN00b | you could call any phone a "luxury hobby object" |
| 06:26.58 | raster | unless you are willing to compromise "open" |
| 06:27.02 | raster | ie have some binary drivers |
| 06:27.03 | raster | etc. etc. |
| 06:27.05 | raster | or lots of them |
| 06:27.18 | raster | in which case |
| 06:27.22 | raster | you pretty much have android phones |
| 06:27.30 | raster | though you dont have a linux os |
| 06:27.34 | raster | just a linux kernel |
| 06:27.39 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 06:27.52 | MokoN00b | without the rest of GNU, its pretty pointless |
| 06:28.21 | raster | yup |
| 06:28.23 | MokoN00b | android is so limited, i would go so far as to say its "broken" |
| 06:28.25 | fredrin | but the software and stuff you could do with it could be better than nokia |
| 06:28.35 | raster | why? |
| 06:28.44 | raster | symbian development has been open and possible for years |
| 06:28.49 | raster | it just is royally painful |
| 06:29.48 | husku | theres no point for moko to try to compete with major phone manufacturers. it is just not reasonable. |
| 06:29.55 | Shlee | Android is "open".. but its not the kind of open FOSS people want |
| 06:30.08 | *** join/#openmoko cheng (n=cheng@202.201.14.141) |
| 06:31.06 | fredrin | most people just want to have a good phone, even iphone people, in their idle time they want to do creative/fun stuff with it and then some people like it to really orgenize their lifes |
| 06:31.24 | raster | husku: correct |
| 06:31.26 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 06:31.30 | raster | so look at it at another angle |
| 06:31.42 | MokoN00b | basic functionality is essential |
| 06:31.43 | raster | the niche - the people who really give a damn about their phone ebing open |
| 06:31.49 | raster | and actually "linux" in the sense they understand |
| 06:31.59 | raster | ie normal kernel, glibc, userspace, x11, etc. |
| 06:32.00 | MokoN00b | it shouldnt be that way, though |
| 06:32.08 | raster | those people.. they want something slightly special |
| 06:32.08 | MokoN00b | they should want linux because it can do more |
| 06:32.11 | fredrin | they get the phone they want anyway |
| 06:32.15 | ndnihil | thatsame! |
| 06:32.17 | MokoN00b | and that is a fact |
| 06:32.18 | raster | they dont want to blend into the crowd with yet another thing everyone else has |
| 06:32.22 | raster | they want somethig they can hack |
| 06:32.27 | raster | and they want somehting probably fairly powerful |
| 06:32.34 | raster | as they want to do interesting stuff with it |
| 06:32.39 | raster | the more grunt you have.. the better |
| 06:32.50 | Shlee | Isn't Android about standards? something designed for one android should run on all androids? |
| 06:32.54 | raster | and if it costs them $800 |
| 06:32.56 | raster | they will pay it |
| 06:33.12 | MokoN00b | i only want something i can hack because i know that no phone designer would ever think of all the possibilities as far as my personal usage is concerned |
| 06:33.18 | raster | (btw an iphone retail is $700 fyi. most smartphones range about $500-$1500 retail) |
| 06:33.23 | fredrin | raster: true, but they still need a good phone, that even their girlfrind would like to have |
| 06:33.33 | husku | Shlee: android is about hype. nothing more, nothing less. |
| 06:33.41 | raster | fredrin: yes. not saying it shouldnt be good |
| 06:33.47 | raster | but the cost is "less important" |
| 06:33.48 | MokoN00b | prices are not like that in taiwan |
| 06:33.50 | ruskie | Shlee, nothing google is about standards... they've manage to make a mess out of imap just like m$ has... |
| 06:33.55 | raster | they are not trying to shave $50 off the cost of their phone |
| 06:33.57 | fredrin | just have two desktops, lol |
| 06:34.02 | raster | they are trying to get something specifc |
| 06:34.10 | MokoN00b | i can buy most smartphones retail for about US$400 |
| 06:34.24 | MokoN00b | the iphone is comparatively expensive |
| 06:34.27 | raster | MokoN00b: oince they are a bit old |
| 06:34.55 | raster | i suggest you actually check out the phone stores one day that sell "unlocked unlkimited" handsest stand-alone |
| 06:35.03 | ruskie | I wonder if the freerunner could last 6 years like my ancient n5110 did... |
| 06:35.11 | MokoN00b | no, the prices have really dropped over the last two years |
| 06:35.11 | raster | i have seen the swankiest sexiest newest ones hit $1500+ |
| 06:35.23 | raster | if its slightly older (been out for a year or so) it drops in price |
| 06:35.41 | MokoN00b | except for the iphone and HTC, most smart phones are in the 400 dollar range |
| 06:35.45 | raster | i am talking the rrp of a new smartphone |
| 06:35.57 | raster | depends |
| 06:36.01 | raster | the lower end - yes |
| 06:36.03 | raster | the higher end.. no |
| 06:36.09 | MokoN00b | the US$1500 phones are a marketing gimmick |
| 06:36.11 | MokoN00b | like prada |
| 06:36.15 | MokoN00b | all fashion |
| 06:36.18 | MokoN00b | no function |
| 06:36.18 | fredrin | true |
| 06:36.21 | raster | sure |
| 06:36.27 | fredrin | the neo owns prada phones |
| 06:36.41 | husku | i have never seen >1000⬠phone. |
| 06:36.48 | raster | http://www.shopbot.com.au/pp-htc-touch-hd-price-132248.html |
| 06:36.53 | raster | for example |
| 06:36.56 | MokoN00b | nokia had one |
| 06:37.03 | raster | just picking one |
| 06:37.05 | MokoN00b | but it had a gold case |
| 06:37.07 | raster | thats NOT the $400 range |
| 06:37.13 | raster | MokoN00b: vertu |
| 06:37.47 | raster | husku: u havent looked around much at phones then :) |
| 06:37.49 | raster | the point is |
| 06:37.49 | MokoN00b | but if im going to buy a gold or stainless steel phone, im not going to blame the price on the internals |
| 06:37.51 | *** join/#openmoko two3four (n=erik@81-233-151-113-no82.business.telia.com) |
| 06:38.10 | raster | a $600, $700 or $800 smartphone - IFित हास रà¥à¤¾à¤²à¤²à¤¯ à¤à¥à¤¦à¥ सपà¥à¤à¤¸à¥¤à¥¤ िस नà¥à¤¤ à¥à¤¨à¤¹à¥à¤¾à¤°à¤¦ à¥à¥ ास ा रà¥à¤¤à¤¾à¤¿à¤² परिà¤à¥ |
| 06:38.12 | raster | oops |
| 06:38.23 | raster | $600-$800 smartphone - retail price.. is not unheard of |
| 06:38.27 | raster | if it has good specs |
| 06:38.29 | MokoN00b | why does that keep coming out in tibetan? |
| 06:38.34 | husku | raster: holy shit! who in their right mind uses that amount of money to pda, when they could get the newest and sexiest nokia communicator + good laptop + hd-tv |
| 06:38.35 | raster | now if you also get one that is open |
| 06:38.39 | raster | thats an added feature |
| 06:38.53 | raster | MokoN00b: my input method (shift+space) turns on |
| 06:38.55 | raster | :) |
| 06:39.10 | MokoN00b | $600-$800 was typical a couple of years ago |
| 06:39.17 | raster | typical even now |
| 06:39.26 | MokoN00b | you can write tibetan? |
| 06:39.28 | husku | raster: 600-800 are not unheard of. most expensive ive seen here has been 976⬠and i thought "wtf" |
| 06:39.34 | MokoN00b | typical for the highest end |
| 06:39.51 | MokoN00b | but even the freerunner was around US$400 |
| 06:40.02 | MokoN00b | and that was about a month after launch |
| 06:40.04 | raster | sure |
| 06:40.09 | raster | but i'm not talking of a freerunner |
| 06:40.12 | raster | whihc is pretyt low-end tech |
| 06:40.18 | raster | i am talking of something high end |
| 06:40.25 | raster | really good specs |
| 06:40.30 | MokoN00b | considering it had features that even the iphone didnt, i thought it was a bargain |
| 06:40.44 | husku | raster: how much battery life do you get on a 15000$ phone? |
| 06:41.04 | MokoN00b | also, it was almost half the cost of my A780 3.5 years earlier |
| 06:41.06 | raster | 515k? |
| 06:41.11 | raster | err15k? |
| 06:41.28 | husku | raster: ups. 1500$ i meant to type :) |
| 06:41.45 | raster | same as $500 one |
| 06:41.49 | MokoN00b | the battery life is no better, i assume |
| 06:42.08 | MokoN00b | the only amazing battery ive ever seen was this phone i bought in japan |
| 06:42.35 | MokoN00b | i bought it for US$45 or so at 7-11 (of all places!) |
| 06:42.37 | husku | raster: which means, when its one year old it hangs in there for a couple of days, if you do not use it. on heavy use (which it was meant for) it lasts for few hours ? |
| 06:42.45 | MokoN00b | it was "disposable" |
| 06:42.52 | *** join/#openmoko gfather (n=g@77.241.65.48) |
| 06:42.53 | Wonka | the cool thing is, i see raster's tibetan typos on my FR in tibetan glyphs... |
| 06:42.58 | MokoN00b | but the battery lasted like a week on a single charge |
| 06:43.05 | MokoN00b | i forgot the charger in japan |
| 06:43.05 | raster | haaahaa |
| 06:43.10 | Wonka | what other phone has that? |
| 06:43.30 | raster | Wonka: iphone |
| 06:43.31 | MokoN00b | i turned it on six months (SIX MONTHS!!!) later, and it still had a 50% charge |
| 06:43.48 | MokoN00b | i could still turn it on after 8 months |
| 06:44.07 | MokoN00b | i have never seen anything that came even close to that |
| 06:44.17 | fredrin | could one develop a better battery on the curren FR? |
| 06:44.35 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 06:44.43 | MokoN00b | or you can buy a couple more |
| 06:44.43 | Wonka | MokoN00b: low self discharge accumulators. |
| 06:45.03 | MokoN00b | and a standalone charger |
| 06:45.04 | Wonka | MokoN00b: look for eneloop on wikipedia |
| 06:45.41 | fredrin | wondering if one could fit a camera module over the simcard on the Neo |
| 06:45.49 | MokoN00b | weird |
| 06:45.52 | raster | the $1500 phones are either that because of brand, immage or something special |
| 06:45.54 | MokoN00b | why dont all phones have that? |
| 06:45.57 | raster | eg glass instead of plastic |
| 06:45.59 | fredrin | ther's some rom there and close to usb |
| 06:46.07 | raster | chromed metal instead of plastic mold |
| 06:46.12 | raster | or some really high end hw |
| 06:46.19 | raster | er 10mpixel camera with full telescopic zoom lens |
| 06:46.22 | MokoN00b | but even then, the phone stayed charged for like 5 days or more when on |
| 06:46.27 | raster | or a really high end cpu |
| 06:46.29 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-78-133.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 06:46.34 | raster | or really big/high res screen |
| 06:46.36 | raster | etc. |
| 06:46.57 | MokoN00b | this particular model had a fairly nice screen, too |
| 06:47.11 | raster | MokoN00b: japanese phones are totally nuts |
| 06:47.18 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:47.23 | raster | tyhe telcos totally control the market |
| 06:47.23 | raster | 100% |
| 06:47.24 | MokoN00b | i was really shocked that a "disposable" phone was almost nicer than most full phones |
| 06:47.27 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 06:47.29 | MokoN00b | japan is nuts |
| 06:47.39 | fredrin | raster: it's they way the west is going |
| 06:47.58 | MokoN00b | unfortunately, their cellphone service providers are even worse than anywhere else |
| 06:48.00 | raster | fredrin: depends where in the west |
| 06:48.08 | MokoN00b | their internet access was totally restricted |
| 06:48.12 | raster | in europe phones are much more detached frolm the telco |
| 06:48.13 | raster | in .au too |
| 06:48.17 | fredrin | people are adicted to their phones |
| 06:48.27 | MokoN00b | i think thats one of the things that made me hate 3g the most |
| 06:48.30 | fredrin | the business modell of the iphone |
| 06:48.45 | raster | MokoN00b: depends on the coutnry and telco |
| 06:48.51 | MokoN00b | in japan, 3g is so locked up that its hard to say what the use of it is |
| 06:48.55 | raster | i know in .au they dont restrict internet over 3g at all |
| 06:48.59 | raster | its "whatever you want" |
| 06:49.00 | raster | BUT |
| 06:49.06 | raster | you get limits |
| 06:49.13 | MokoN00b | nobody i asked had full internet access on their phone |
| 06:49.14 | raster | eg 1gb or 2 or 4 or 6gb/month |
| 06:49.20 | raster | and you pay more for the xfer cap |
| 06:49.23 | MokoN00b | but, at home, i had had it for years |
| 06:49.29 | raster | in the us for4 example they may offer "unlimited" |
| 06:49.32 | raster | but that comes with gotchas |
| 06:49.35 | fredrin | here it's hard to even get gprs on a prepaid sim card |
| 06:49.36 | raster | they limit what you can do and how |
| 06:49.46 | raster | and thats how they make sure you "Feel" linke you got a good deal |
| 06:49.52 | raster | but actually end up restricted anyway |
| 06:49.59 | raster | so at least here the telcos are up front |
| 06:49.59 | MokoN00b | prepaid sim cards always seem to not allow gprs |
| 06:50.09 | MokoN00b | i dont understand why, though |
| 06:50.19 | MokoN00b | you would pay more often if you used it faster |
| 06:50.24 | fredrin | just pay for the data on the internet |
| 06:50.29 | raster | "you get N gb of data for $X in a month. use more and you pay $Y/mb. otherwise. do whatever you like{" |
| 06:50.32 | methril|work | good morning |
| 06:51.00 | MokoN00b | yeah, thats usually the deal |
| 06:51.18 | MokoN00b | "unlimited" is more like "less limited" |
| 06:51.26 | MokoN00b | or less expensive per bit |
| 06:51.40 | ruskie | I actually have unlimited here... costs 16eur/month... |
| 06:51.55 | ruskie | of course they block all incoming ports so it's still not truelly unlimited but no hidden costs |
| 06:52.14 | raster | ruskie: but hidden restrictions |
| 06:52.15 | Shlee | raster: Yes, I'm not limited, I could download torrents on public transport. but I would quickly get another $700 bill from Virgin Australia |
| 06:52.33 | fredrin | can one use vpn over gprs? |
| 06:52.40 | raster | Shlee: yup. you just end up paying for the access |
| 06:52.50 | raster | of course every few mojnths i see the price of 3g data going down |
| 06:53.03 | raster | what 12 months ago was $70 for 6gb/mo now is $40 |
| 06:53.07 | ruskie | raster, erm... I can use it for whatever I want |
| 06:53.19 | ruskie | but yeah... blocked incoming ports are annoying |
| 06:53.20 | fredrin | Shlee: just remote control torrents |
| 06:53.35 | raster | eventually it will get to a point "thats more data than i could ever realistically use in a month.. screw it. i'll pay $20 for 50gb" |
| 06:53.36 | raster | :) |
| 06:53.42 | ruskie | raster, but then I'm from Slovenia - Europe... |
| 06:53.50 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 06:53.53 | raster | ruskie: cant use it for.. incoming traffic |
| 06:53.58 | raster | thus |
| 06:54.01 | raster | not "whatever you want" :) |
| 06:54.05 | ruskie | need to hit them about that still |
| 06:54.07 | MokoN00b | then again, thats the point of changing cellphone specs |
| 06:54.13 | ruskie | to see if I can get it opened |
| 06:54.20 | MokoN00b | now that you can afford it -- how much data do you want? |
| 06:54.38 | *** join/#openmoko BillK_ (n=Bill@203.59.139.142) |
| 06:54.45 | MokoN00b | and what services do you want to enable that were previously cost prohibitive? |
| 06:54.57 | MokoN00b | or even speed prohibitive? |
| 06:55.48 | MokoN00b | so, what kind of processor were you thinking of putting in your phone? |
| 06:55.59 | ruskie | though what I really want from a phone is: linux powered, does calls+sms, can do 3g+wifi+bt+irda, has call recording and call blocking(per number and such), has a way to link 3g<->wifi so that one can use the phone as a wifi AP... |
| 06:56.18 | ruskie | that's really all I need it for |
| 06:56.21 | *** join/#openmoko kwek (n=kwek@88.Red-88-15-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 06:56.30 | ruskie | basically self-powered 3g modem ;) |
| 06:57.16 | MokoN00b | call blocking per number would rock |
| 06:57.17 | Shlee | ruskie: iPhone? |
| 06:57.29 | Shlee | -irda |
| 06:57.40 | raster | MokoN00b: my home adsl is with iinet. i get 100gb/mo (20mbit). i barely use half of that.. and i gave up caring what i do how how. i just do whatever i do. |
| 06:57.42 | MokoN00b | i would buy an iphone if i could flash it |
| 06:57.48 | MokoN00b | the hardware is nice |
| 06:57.58 | fredrin | ruskie: it should have a cam as well |
| 06:57.58 | raster | unlike some i dont spend my time torrenting pirated movies or music |
| 06:58.03 | ruskie | anyone know if it would be possible to power a usb device from a battery pack while still have it plugged in and communicating with the host? |
| 06:58.06 | raster | so perhaps i'm unusual" |
| 06:58.11 | ruskie | fredrin, I don't need a cam... I have a DSLR for that... |
| 06:58.12 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 06:58.18 | fredrin | but 3g is not super important if you have good wifi |
| 06:58.18 | Shlee | Meh, the world needs to remove $/MB restrictions because thats balls |
| 06:58.29 | MokoN00b | i dont think about bandwidth to my house |
| 06:58.37 | fredrin | you just need to be connected when you're roaming |
| 06:58.37 | raster | but the xfer cap is sane and its meant to discourage abuse of the isp's network by the small percentage of users who gobble up 50%+ of the network |
| 06:58.59 | fredrin | that's the hard part, but gprs is the most important |
| 06:59.00 | ruskie | how is it abuse if they pay for it? |
| 06:59.19 | raster | MokoN00b: as for cpu - i was planning on the omap3530 |
| 06:59.21 | ruskie | if I pay for such and such service and use such and such service... how is that abuse? |
| 06:59.27 | raster | either 128 or maybe 256m ram |
| 06:59.35 | raster | dpeending whihc pop is easiest tro get |
| 06:59.38 | raster | flash is only for rescue os |
| 06:59.41 | raster | 2x micro-sd slots |
| 06:59.46 | husku | fredrin: phone is something thats supposed to be "on the go", wifi is not everywhere, even in city centres there are only few open hotspots. |
| 06:59.53 | raster | phone would probably come with a 1gb micro-sd for the rootfs |
| 06:59.56 | Wonka | hm... |
| 06:59.59 | raster | plug in a bigger one for a rootfs upgrade |
| 07:00.06 | raster | and an external microsd for data |
| 07:00.08 | raster | so u have 2 micro-sd's there |
| 07:00.19 | Wonka | currently, i pay 10EUR a month, get 200MB for that, any extra MB is 0.50 EUR |
| 07:00.32 | husku | fredrin: also, nice point would be the new finnish law which prohibits connections to open wlans if you dont have permissions from the owner. |
| 07:00.33 | raster | so thats currently a max of 32gb of storage possible |
| 07:00.54 | *** join/#openmoko erwan_ (n=erwan@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-195.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 07:01.04 | Wonka | i could upgrade to 25EUR for a "flatrate" - which after the first GB of the month is throttled to GPRS speed |
| 07:01.20 | raster | ruskie: its abuse - if you pay a same flat rate. ie person A pays $50 and uses 1g/month |
| 07:01.25 | Wonka | (which doesn't affect me atm, because the FR doesn't do more anyways) |
| 07:01.30 | raster | person b pays $50 and uses 1tb/month |
| 07:01.43 | MokoN00b | i asked the openmoko developers this before, but im not sure if they understood my question: why not keep the primary OS on an (micro)SD card and only use an internal image as an emergency backup? |
| 07:01.43 | raster | so the isp publically sets what they believe is reasonable |
| 07:01.46 | raster | a data xfer cap |
| 07:01.56 | fredrin | i bet the phone companies make more than enough money |
| 07:02.13 | raster | they say "we believe N gb/mo is reasonable. if you want more than that - you can pay more and get more. you pay for an upgraded level of service" |
| 07:02.13 | ruskie | raster, erm... if there is a cap then yes... if it's sold as unlimited then no it's not |
| 07:02.24 | MokoN00b | so, the primary OS would be on a microsd, then |
| 07:02.26 | raster | ruskie: nothing is sold unlimited here anymore |
| 07:02.31 | ruskie | ahh |
| 07:02.33 | fredrin | the world richest guy was a for a period a mexican that owns big telecos |
| 07:02.34 | ruskie | around here it still is |
| 07:02.36 | raster | they just publically say what is your cap |
| 07:02.45 | Wonka | raster: here, you cannot pay more and get more, not unless you get them to make a special contract just for you |
| 07:02.49 | raster | go over it ands they throttle you down to 64kbit |
| 07:02.55 | raster | (so you dont pay more. you just get really slow) |
| 07:03.19 | raster | MokoN00b: yes. primary os would be on standard ext2/3 on microsd |
| 07:03.24 | Wonka | raster: and those will be unreasonable expensive |
| 07:03.32 | raster | nand on the system is there in case your sd really messes up |
| 07:03.39 | raster | and can boot into a rescue os in nand that can format a new sd |
| 07:03.48 | raster | download a new rootfs image and write it out |
| 07:03.51 | raster | thats the only thing in nand |
| 07:03.57 | raster | a "rescue os" |
| 07:04.16 | raster | Wonka: well then - they are not being reasonable |
| 07:04.24 | MokoN00b | thats much cooler -- i would love to be able to switch OSes as the mood strikes |
| 07:04.37 | MokoN00b | and here is the marketable bit: |
| 07:04.39 | raster | at least here - there are limits and they tell you what they are and let you monitor your usage in detail... know where you stand and how much it costs to upgrade etc. |
| 07:04.44 | Wonka | i thought OS would have been on microSD on "old" GTA03, so if you broke it, you could fix it externally... |
| 07:04.58 | raster | MokoN00b: its on a microsd - you can swap the entire os in and out at the change of an sd card |
| 07:05.06 | Wonka | hm, i have yet to find the place to monitor my usage in detail... |
| 07:05.07 | raster | as its an sd.. u can reflahs it.. on your pc |
| 07:05.09 | MokoN00b | being able to switch OSes easily makes it so service providers can provide custom interfaces for users |
| 07:05.13 | raster | so no special "tools" needed at all |
| 07:05.26 | raster | Wonka: yes. it was planned to be. |
| 07:05.41 | raster | Wonka: for me. toolbox.iinet.com.au |
| 07:05.42 | MokoN00b | but it also allows for third party software vendors that would package and sell loaded SD cards for ordinary people |
| 07:05.54 | raster | they provide a nice web ui with daily usage summaries and graphs |
| 07:06.00 | MokoN00b | those same people who cant see the advantage in using linux |
| 07:06.15 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E176F2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:06.24 | ruskie | http://www.cradlepoint.com/products/phs300-personal-wifi-hotspot <-- hmm interesting... |
| 07:06.48 | raster | u can check your usage history for preceeding days. and months, day by day |
| 07:07.02 | raster | and its 'up to dTe" whenever you look - it doesnt take a day to tel lyou what your usage was |
| 07:07.11 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-78-133.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 07:07.16 | raster | MokoN00b: yup. |
| 07:07.24 | raster | MokoN00b: makes for a trivial "vertical market" |
| 07:07.31 | raster | ie consulting companies, small business |
| 07:07.31 | Wonka | raster: O2 Germany here... |
| 07:07.34 | raster | or even telcos, shops |
| 07:07.41 | raster | to sell the phone with a customised sd of their own |
| 07:08.07 | MokoN00b | thats what im saying |
| 07:08.22 | raster | hats what i like it |
| 07:08.28 | MokoN00b | so, you could have like dell phones or something |
| 07:08.32 | raster | also it means the fs is less complex |
| 07:08.35 | raster | no fjjs2 stuff |
| 07:08.39 | raster | jffs2 |
| 07:08.41 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 07:08.44 | raster | just normal ext3 |
| 07:08.54 | MokoN00b | well, ext2 probably |
| 07:08.58 | raster | the sd card io on the omap3 is fast |
| 07:09.01 | raster | i clock 16m/sec |
| 07:09.03 | fredrin | ruskie: nice |
| 07:09.10 | MokoN00b | yeah, nice |
| 07:09.21 | raster | compared to about 2-3m/sec on the gta02's nand flash |
| 07:09.27 | raster | boots are hyper-fast as its not io limited anymore |
| 07:09.32 | raster | no need to decompress data too |
| 07:09.34 | raster | (like jffs2) |
| 07:09.39 | raster | and rebuild from logs |
| 07:09.45 | MokoN00b | would it be impossible to have a normal headset jack on there? |
| 07:09.47 | fredrin | if the Neo wifi driver could be a AP too it could maybe do the job with a usb 3g dongle, not sure |
| 07:09.48 | raster | trivial to fix and mount from a pc |
| 07:10.00 | MokoN00b | like the E6? |
| 07:10.06 | raster | MokoN00b: that bottom of the phone has a 3.5mm headest hack |
| 07:10.38 | MokoN00b | now im confused about which size is which |
| 07:10.55 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@62.196.2.6) |
| 07:11.10 | *** join/#openmoko Guest95196 (n=viktor@residence-232-134.mschaffer.ualberta.ca) |
| 07:11.51 | raster | 3.5mm is standard headphone jack |
| 07:12.07 | raster | it also should have mic on it too with an extra ring - but that makes it normal headset compatible |
| 07:12.26 | *** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=tasn@85-250-65-218.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 07:12.31 | MokoN00b | kewl |
| 07:12.39 | MokoN00b | because most phones have a smaller one |
| 07:12.45 | raster | yes |
| 07:13.11 | *** join/#openmoko freerunnerlive (n=ernst@p57B5BA57.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:13.37 | *** part/#openmoko Shlee (n=quassel@219-90-167-101.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 07:14.57 | MokoN00b | for the speed of the processor, what would you compare it to? |
| 07:16.25 | MokoN00b | interesting idea |
| 07:16.44 | MokoN00b | so, you but a microphone plug in the base station |
| 07:16.50 | *** join/#openmoko mogren (i=893deae1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3bc0ec3510491c8a) |
| 07:16.57 | MokoN00b | that way stereo could easily be exported |
| 07:17.15 | MokoN00b | or even both the speakers and the mic |
| 07:17.29 | raster | MokoN00b: compare in what way? |
| 07:17.39 | MokoN00b | i dont |
| 07:17.40 | MokoN00b | oops |
| 07:17.41 | MokoN00b | i dont know |
| 07:17.53 | MokoN00b | with some desktop processor based on performance |
| 07:18.01 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:18.03 | raster | MokoN00b: and yes - same kind of 3.5mm plug arrangement motorola used in the rokr. has both headphone and mic ont he same plug |
| 07:18.14 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 07:18.18 | raster | as for speed |
| 07:18.24 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 07:18.34 | raster | a 600mhz omap3 is about the speed of a 1ghz via eden cpu |
| 07:18.47 | MokoN00b | i figure the motorola phones are like a computer from the late 90s |
| 07:19.06 | MokoN00b | thats pretty fast |
| 07:19.09 | raster | yes |
| 07:19.14 | MokoN00b | i like your phone |
| 07:19.16 | raster | thus why i say .. it will be expensive |
| 07:19.20 | MokoN00b | when can i get one? |
| 07:19.22 | raster | but you will get a lot of bang for your buck |
| 07:19.30 | raster | its a fast little sucker |
| 07:19.31 | MokoN00b | i would pay US$800 for that |
| 07:19.46 | raster | in addition the cradle/base stattion has a breakout to a hdmi/dvi plug |
| 07:19.52 | raster | and powered usb hub |
| 07:20.01 | raster | u can plug in monitors, keyboiard and mouse |
| 07:20.07 | raster | and it is.. a low-powered desktop |
| 07:20.14 | MokoN00b | could the HDMI be optional? |
| 07:20.29 | MokoN00b | thats what i was thinking about the future of phones |
| 07:20.39 | MokoN00b | it would be nice to come home and plug it in |
| 07:20.48 | MokoN00b | and just have my desktop on the phone |
| 07:21.01 | MokoN00b | now _that_ would be a smart phone |
| 07:21.24 | raster | you mean remove it? |
| 07:21.30 | raster | it comes kind of fro free |
| 07:21.36 | raster | the cpu is capable of high res display |
| 07:21.40 | raster | 720p is not a problem |
| 07:21.41 | MokoN00b | oh |
| 07:21.52 | raster | its been driven upto 1920x1080 |
| 07:21.55 | raster | it can already do it |
| 07:22.01 | MokoN00b | i thought there was some sort of HDMI chip or something |
| 07:22.14 | raster | all you need is to have a dvi framer chip (that takes lcd signals and converts to dvi signal frames) |
| 07:22.23 | raster | its just a signal converter |
| 07:22.25 | raster | thats all |
| 07:22.30 | MokoN00b | DVI is good, though |
| 07:22.31 | raster | really small and cheap |
| 07:22.37 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 07:22.43 | raster | beagleboard/overa already do this |
| 07:22.49 | raster | much cheaper than including an lcd |
| 07:22.50 | raster | :) |
| 07:23.07 | raster | and thats half the point |
| 07:23.19 | raster | its a phone thats fast enough to be a "netbook" |
| 07:23.23 | *** join/#openmoko ZaPPaS (n=moritz@buero2.pi5.physik.uni-stuttgart.de) |
| 07:23.24 | MokoN00b | so, you can already have a PC in your pocket |
| 07:23.24 | raster | but in and of itself its a fraction of the size of a netbook |
| 07:23.29 | MokoN00b | just not with an LCD |
| 07:23.30 | *** join/#openmoko polaru (n=polaru@93.113.192.70) |
| 07:23.32 | raster | with 2g or 3g "on the go" data |
| 07:23.34 | MokoN00b | or touch screen |
| 07:23.49 | raster | and to make it a full opc - just add a big screen and kbd/mouse |
| 07:23.51 | raster | done |
| 07:24.02 | raster | chances are you will have that at your desk anyway |
| 07:24.03 | MokoN00b | thats perfect |
| 07:24.09 | MokoN00b | when can we get it? |
| 07:24.16 | raster | and its much nicer to use a full sized kbd, mouse and decent 17" lcd |
| 07:24.18 | MokoN00b | :) |
| 07:24.32 | raster | than stare into a tiny poke 7" or 8" lcd on a netbook with a tiny screen |
| 07:24.41 | raster | when you are on the go - a netbook is just too big to go in a pocket |
| 07:24.44 | raster | so u alweays need a bag for it |
| 07:24.51 | hipitihop | raster: sorry, coming in late on this discussion, are you talking about an existing machine ? |
| 07:25.08 | raster | and on the go - u are unlikely to do any serious typing - mostly bowsing/reading and minimal input |
| 07:25.10 | MokoN00b | yes and no |
| 07:25.21 | MokoN00b | there is a machine that does this without a screen |
| 07:25.25 | raster | hipitihop: unfortunately.. no. a "design idea" |
| 07:25.29 | MokoN00b | he wants to add a screen |
| 07:25.38 | raster | MokoN00b: you canr read your morning email on the bus to work... |
| 07:25.51 | MokoN00b | i can already do that |
| 07:25.58 | MokoN00b | :) |
| 07:26.05 | raster | if you lug a laptop along |
| 07:26.07 | MokoN00b | in fact, i already read books on my phone |
| 07:26.11 | raster | or use your current closed phone |
| 07:26.12 | raster | :) |
| 07:26.16 | MokoN00b | yeah |
| 07:26.23 | hipitihop | what is the machine without the screen |
| 07:26.24 | MokoN00b | i would like an open phone that does that |
| 07:26.29 | MokoN00b | so, i can extend what it does |
| 07:26.42 | raster | bingo |
| 07:27.17 | MokoN00b | i hate it when i think of something new my computer or phone could do and i cant because the software doesnt let me |
| 07:27.19 | *** join/#openmoko thannoy (n=thannoy@85-19.206-83.static-ip.oleane.fr) |
| 07:27.30 | MokoN00b | if its a hardware restriction, i can understand |
| 07:27.51 | gfather | raster i talked to TAsn , and it seems we gonna have arabic soon ;) |
| 07:27.52 | MokoN00b | but with software, why should i be constrained by someone else's limited imagination? |
| 07:29.13 | hipitihop | let me know when you guys are in production, I'll buy one immediately :-) |
| 07:29.58 | beer_ | is there a new phone coming? |
| 07:30.29 | raster | MokoN00b: yup. thus open is good |
| 07:30.48 | raster | beer_: being discussed. needs either one hell of a big customer to say "i want to buy it now" |
| 07:31.02 | raster | and in addtion... needs a small mountain of money |
| 07:31.16 | raster | you can have all the ideas u like |
| 07:31.19 | raster | even do designs |
| 07:31.24 | raster | and have prototypes working |
| 07:31.36 | raster | the problem comes when you want to actually make something u can ship in a box that will work |
| 07:32.24 | raster | gfather: i hope composition can work |
| 07:32.38 | gfather | yes me to :) |
| 07:33.02 | gfather | raster if it works maybe we can localize full enlightment to |
| 07:33.15 | *** join/#openmoko bar_code (n=ollo@222.128.24.75) |
| 07:33.46 | raster | chances are it will need more debugging over time |
| 07:33.48 | raster | wont get some things right |
| 07:33.50 | raster | but yes |
| 07:33.52 | *** join/#openmoko lord-carlos (i=carlos@ip-56-128.bnaa.dk) |
| 07:34.05 | beer_ | raster: I have a small mountain of money. Proberbly to small. But if a new and improved freerunner appears I wouold use that mountain of money on the phone |
| 07:34.07 | raster | i'lll be entirely happy to have arabic hebrew and other rtl support "work" |
| 07:34.10 | raster | i cant reads it |
| 07:34.23 | raster | so all i will do is say "ooh! nice squiggles going right to left!" |
| 07:34.24 | raster | :) |
| 07:34.31 | gfather | :D |
| 07:34.51 | raster | beer_: moiuntains i speak of are in the $ millions land :) |
| 07:34.56 | raster | like double-digit millions |
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| 07:35.21 | *** part/#openmoko ftclausen (n=fclausen@213.244.186.121) |
| 07:35.23 | SpeedEvil | has a small mountain of money. |
| 07:35.34 | *** join/#openmoko ftclausen (n=fclausen@213.244.186.121) |
| 07:35.35 | SpeedEvil | Oh - my mistake, I was looking at it through my microscope again. |
| 07:35.42 | gfather | :) |
| 07:35.50 | raster | hahaha |
| 07:36.58 | SpeedEvil | raster: on the mechanical design of the thing - you've essentially got the 'bulge' as a 2mm or so thick curved shell, not a blob? With the LCD at the top of the bulge? |
| 07:38.00 | MokoN00b | beer_: i think he means a VC mountain of money |
| 07:38.12 | MokoN00b | are you ready to fund a production run? |
| 07:38.13 | beer_ | vc? |
| 07:38.20 | SpeedEvil | venture capitalist |
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| 07:39.29 | beer_ | maybe someone should start look for funds and vc to make a new phone without buzz |
| 07:39.42 | SpeedEvil | without buzz is easy |
| 07:39.47 | raster | SpeedEvil: yes. the shell is above/over the lcd |
| 07:39.48 | MokoN00b | huh? |
| 07:39.56 | SpeedEvil | the problem is without other major bug |
| 07:39.58 | raster | and the lcd is just under the curve |
| 07:40.01 | MokoN00b | isnt "with buzz" the only way anybody will know about it? |
| 07:40.03 | raster | (inside the shell) |
| 07:40.21 | raster | the curve allows the the lcd to be on top of the board at the front surface |
| 07:40.47 | SpeedEvil | raster: with the LCD-> shell space being curved, or a flat spot on the shell, or filled with optical silicone or something? |
| 07:40.53 | raster | beer_: dude. if u have vc friends... poke them |
| 07:41.14 | raster | beer_: thats the point. vc's are cliquey. you need an introduction - you need to be known by them to get their time of day |
| 07:41.27 | lord-carlos | Hi there, i just got my OpenMoko today |
| 07:41.57 | SpeedEvil | raster: as I make the distance - at the edge corners - assuming 1.5-2mm thick LCD, and .5mm gap, you don't have much room |
| 07:42.01 | beer_ | I know somebody but not in that huge amout of monye a new phone will cost |
| 07:42.19 | beer_ | it is more likly to be aroud 2000 doller-thing |
| 07:42.42 | SpeedEvil | raster: as there is a lot of space in the middle, but not that much at the edges, due to the left and right sides touching the bulge |
| 07:42.50 | raster | SpeedEvil: it fits.. trust me. you dont see the other internals diagrams i did to make sure it fits |
| 07:43.07 | SpeedEvil | raster: Ok - good - I really don't want stupids killing you :) |
| 07:43.23 | raster | beer_: to actually get it into production will cost millions $ |
| 07:43.34 | MokoN00b | at least |
| 07:43.43 | raster | SpeedEvil: yeah - i didnt do everything - but i did the major bulky components |
| 07:44.00 | beer_ | so we just need to find millions users who want to give away 1 doller :) |
| 07:44.02 | SpeedEvil | raster: including the turboencabulator? |
| 07:44.17 | raster | screen. main board (leave room for surface components) speaker/mic, connector units (headphone, usb, microsd) and battery. |
| 07:44.24 | raster | hahahahah |
| 07:44.41 | SpeedEvil | raster: vibrator? though those aren't that big nowadays |
| 07:44.44 | raster | beer_: that would be possible only as a donation :( |
| 07:44.55 | raster | SpeedEvil: i didnt put that in. but i left a lot of extra space |
| 07:44.58 | raster | thats why its so tall |
| 07:45.11 | SpeedEvil | raster: there are 'coin' ones |
| 07:45.17 | *** join/#openmoko poco (n=neil@vau06-1-89-85-32-52.dsl.club-internet.fr) |
| 07:45.32 | raster | theres a big blob of blank i kleft going "well.. goint o have to have room for a daughterboard with a 2-3mm thick 2 or 3g module on top of it... and also space for other things" |
| 07:45.34 | raster | like camera etc. |
| 07:45.49 | SpeedEvil | http://www.tradeboss.com/default.cgi/action/viewtradeleads/tradeleadid/58622/subject/Sell_mobile_phone_micro_DC_coin_vibrator_motor_C1034_56L28/ |
| 07:45.51 | raster | so i hope i have breathing space |
| 07:45.54 | raster | but the design is just that |
| 07:45.55 | raster | a design |
| 07:46.01 | SpeedEvil | though I've seen some a bit thinner |
| 07:46.03 | raster | its more intended for me to use in documents pimping the idea |
| 07:46.09 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 07:46.11 | raster | so it just has to look sexy and look plausible |
| 07:46.26 | SpeedEvil | cameras are available stupidly tiny for VGA |
| 07:46.27 | raster | the curved screen - as a capactivie ts.. is possible |
| 07:46.34 | raster | as i unbderstand the tech |
| 07:46.40 | SpeedEvil | but it probably don't want to go too cheap |
| 07:46.43 | raster | but may be expensive to set up production |
| 07:46.44 | SpeedEvil | yoy |
| 07:46.59 | SpeedEvil | A $20 camera is going to be a better match than $1 prolly |
| 07:47.00 | raster | but.. for now i'll go with it |
| 07:47.09 | raster | i understand that reality may require the curve to go and become flat |
| 07:47.10 | raster | etc. |
| 07:47.14 | raster | yeah |
| 07:47.23 | raster | i9 was intending to find a camera with a LARGE lens |
| 07:47.25 | raster | and ccd |
| 07:47.28 | raster | not the mini ones |
| 07:47.30 | raster | with auto-focus |
| 07:47.39 | SpeedEvil | IMO - you're going the wrong way there. |
| 07:47.40 | raster | so u'd need the mechanical actuators to change focus anyway |
| 07:47.50 | raster | room for a bigger ccd and larger glass lens |
| 07:47.58 | SpeedEvil | CMOS historically used to be horrible |
| 07:48.00 | raster | something closer to a "lowend/cheap compact camera" |
| 07:48.23 | SpeedEvil | The problem there is you need a _lot_ of depth for a 'proper' camera |
| 07:48.33 | raster | i know |
| 07:48.35 | SpeedEvil | Some of the 'high end' mobile phone cameras aren't that bad |
| 07:48.39 | raster | i have about 10mm |
| 07:48.52 | raster | i was hoping to find something cecent within that |
| 07:49.32 | SpeedEvil | You get - forex - 10*10*4mm 1.3MP autofocus camera modules. |
| 07:49.52 | SpeedEvil | Though I haven't been looking at the high end |
| 07:49.53 | raster | yeah - 10mm distance from other side of main pcb to back of case |
| 07:50.06 | SpeedEvil | I've been looking at 0.3-2MP or so for another project. |
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| 07:50.12 | raster | aaah ok |
| 07:50.18 | raster | well i was thinking about3mp |
| 07:50.30 | raster | but focos in the lens having a wide aperture for good light capture |
| 07:50.38 | raster | and non-fixed-focus |
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| 07:50.45 | SpeedEvil | But generally - CMOS and CCD isn't the point today. CMOS cameras can have multi-second shutter times now, and quite low noise. |
| 07:50.50 | raster | (electrically controllable focus/zoom) |
| 07:51.09 | SpeedEvil | you mean analog optical zoom? |
| 07:51.15 | raster | the problem is mostly ccd size for image quality |
| 07:51.15 | SpeedEvil | that adds a _lot_ of complexity. |
| 07:51.21 | raster | a tiny physical ccd will always suck |
| 07:51.32 | raster | and large lens aperture and quality lens optics |
| 07:51.40 | raster | yup |
| 07:51.42 | SpeedEvil | raster: low-light performance really |
| 07:51.42 | raster | non-digital zoom |
| 07:51.46 | raster | if it can be found |
| 07:51.49 | raster | but frankly... |
| 07:52.01 | raster | i am more than willing to juist "get the best thing that fits at a good price" |
| 07:52.02 | SpeedEvil | http://www.framos.eu/news.html?&L=1&p=98 |
| 07:52.04 | Wonka | 6mpixel.org |
| 07:52.04 | SpeedEvil | just use that. |
| 07:52.06 | raster | i have things i'd like |
| 07:52.11 | raster | but its a phone |
| 07:52.30 | raster | its not going to ever replace a dslr.. without being the size of a dslr |
| 07:52.36 | Wonka | the Siemens S65's cam (1.3mpix) is unusable |
| 07:52.38 | SpeedEvil | pretty much. |
| 07:52.54 | Wonka | you cannot even snap some price tag in a shop - won't be readable |
| 07:53.07 | SpeedEvil | Optical cameras ratings are an utter bitch. |
| 07:53.09 | Wonka | either sharp - then too far away |
| 07:53.19 | Wonka | or close enough - then blurry |
| 07:53.26 | raster | SpeedEvil: hhahahhaa... thats.. a bit big :) |
| 07:53.47 | Wonka | heh |
| 07:54.16 | SpeedEvil | You've got units like 'minimum 5 lux, with a 16dB SNR, with a F2 lens pointed at a blank pattern box, illuminated with a 3200K tungsten bulb' |
| 07:54.37 | SpeedEvil | And the other maker quotes mw/cm^2 at the sensor head |
| 07:55.07 | Wonka | http://groups.google.com/group/de.alt.netdigest/browse_thread/thread/56f0471898806c27/4f642430a2c614b3?lnk=gst&q=Kamera#4f642430a2c614b3 |
| 07:55.32 | Wonka | someone asking for a digicam with integrated phone and gets handed some links |
| 07:55.52 | *** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=tasn@89-138-70-60.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 07:55.56 | Wonka | a DSLR, a cheap&simple feature phone and a roll of double-sided tape |
| 07:56.01 | SpeedEvil | Oh - another annoyance. Camera modules and CCDs never seem to have part numbers on. |
| 07:57.01 | SpeedEvil | is also looking at openstreetview - which is fun. |
| 07:57.22 | SpeedEvil | ~200G for a small town. |
| 07:58.48 | Wonka | wtv? |
| 07:58.50 | Wonka | wtf, even |
| 07:58.55 | SpeedEvil | Oh - not to mention the missing datasheets. |
| 07:59.06 | SpeedEvil | Wonka: making - it's not an extant project |
| 07:59.14 | raster | never expect a tiny ccd with a tiny lends on the back of a phone to get close to any digicam |
| 07:59.27 | raster | but it should be decent enough to take snaps of "stuff you see" |
| 07:59.32 | raster | and people sfaces for your phonebook |
| 07:59.35 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure about 'never' |
| 07:59.55 | raster | SpeedEvil: well unless it beocmes the size of a digicam :) |
| 08:00.00 | SpeedEvil | With one of TIs impactron CCDs, and appropriate module design, it could be pretty good. |
| 08:00.03 | raster | and i mean dslr end of cams |
| 08:00.08 | SpeedEvil | But, those are _stupid_ money |
| 08:00.23 | raster | the really really low end of happy snap digi cams has already been invaded by phones |
| 08:00.29 | SpeedEvil | that'd get you about 3 orders of magnitude more sensitivity for the same sensor size. |
| 08:00.32 | raster | literally using the lenses/camera units from them |
| 08:00.39 | raster | but then u have a cam.. that can make calls |
| 08:00.39 | raster | :) |
| 08:01.31 | *** join/#openmoko joejoe (n=imlich@129.187.227.222) |
| 08:01.46 | SpeedEvil | http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/bd/13092/vb6850.htm is maybe an example of one of the slightly better ones. |
| 08:02.00 | SpeedEvil | (but TI won't sell those for under silly money) |
| 08:02.22 | Wonka | there are some sony cybershot _phones_, iirc |
| 08:02.22 | SpeedEvil | Also - CMOS chips can have onboard stuff easily - meaning you don't need external A/D - or in some cases jpeg compressor |
| 08:02.46 | SpeedEvil | Wonka: lots of the problems go away if you make a million (that you can share the camera between) |
| 08:03.24 | Wonka | SpeedEvil: i know, but to name a f***ing phone like it was a camera... |
| 08:04.12 | raster | silly money! |
| 08:04.38 | SpeedEvil | custom lenses are more joy :) |
| 08:04.53 | SpeedEvil | They make you wish for the inexpensive land of 8 layer PCBs. |
| 08:05.53 | raster | hahahaha |
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| 08:06.45 | *** join/#openmoko sakkara (n=sakkara@80.121.180.94) |
| 08:06.55 | SpeedEvil | has ground lenses - fun. |
| 08:07.00 | *** join/#openmoko agg1n (n=jan@static-87-245-12-74.teleos-web.de) |
| 08:07.07 | SpeedEvil | It is actually quite simple to do at home. |
| 08:07.09 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-73-168.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 08:07.11 | SpeedEvil | Though coating isn't |
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| 08:08.26 | SpeedEvil | looks at his un-hooked-up vacuum pump. |
| 08:11.22 | MokoN00b | gotta go |
| 08:11.27 | MokoN00b | see you all |
| 08:12.31 | SpeedEvil | has to go to a passport interview today. |
| 08:12.55 | SpeedEvil | Don't actually need a passport, but need a driving license, which due to real-life stuff hasn't been done by now. |
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| 08:18.00 | raster | SpeedEvil: no passport or license? |
| 08:20.38 | SpeedEvil | raster: both |
| 08:20.46 | SpeedEvil | raster: require passport to get driving license (now) |
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| 08:22.49 | raster | SpeedEvil: eek! how... did that happen? |
| 08:23.09 | raster | i have 2 passports and a license... and i have never had less than that. |
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| 08:28.14 | SpeedEvil | raster: broadly - illness, and being unable to work, and not having my own car till now. |
| 08:28.36 | SpeedEvil | has just organised ashes-scattering ceremony for mum on sunday :/ |
| 08:28.45 | SpeedEvil | Not the way I'd wanted to get a car. |
| 08:29.04 | raster | SpeedEvil: ooooh. i see. so a lot of shit hitting the fan at once |
| 08:29.12 | SpeedEvil | pretty much. |
| 08:29.12 | raster | :( |
| 08:29.19 | SpeedEvil | Just using IRC to decompress some. |
| 08:29.19 | raster | sorry to hear that man |
| 08:29.28 | raster | my condolences |
| 08:29.32 | SpeedEvil | On that note - don't leave stuff unsaid. Thanks. |
| 08:29.33 | raster | decompress man |
| 08:29.44 | raster | actually sinky yourself into something to get your mind off things |
| 08:29.51 | raster | like code or a hw project |
| 08:29.52 | SpeedEvil | been doing that. |
| 08:30.04 | raster | something to.. occupy those idle braincells. |
| 08:30.18 | SpeedEvil | Have maybe 500m^2 of garden that have been left for a year - and I need to put into some sane state. |
| 08:30.27 | raster | jaz |
| 08:30.28 | SpeedEvil | Also I need to finish the house insulation. |
| 08:30.32 | raster | mow that lawn |
| 08:30.34 | raster | and... fix it |
| 08:30.47 | raster | it will give you some sense of satisfaction and positive things happening |
| 08:30.48 | SpeedEvil | the lawn is the really, really easy part. |
| 08:31.01 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/ - some pics |
| 08:31.09 | raster | my parents are still alive - thank god |
| 08:31.21 | SpeedEvil | I'm hoping to keep it up. |
| 08:31.23 | raster | buti just dont want to think of them dying. it just isnt something i'd want to face |
| 08:31.29 | raster | i probably will get over it and march on |
| 08:31.35 | raster | but it wont make for a happy bit of my life |
| 08:31.43 | raster | so i can kind of empathise |
| 08:32.05 | raster | my dad was an alcoholice for years - he's absused himself to the point where i accepted he'd die young-ish anyway |
| 08:32.10 | SpeedEvil | In some ways - yes - in other ways - she diddn't have good pain control at home - it's a horrid decision. |
| 08:32.28 | raster | amazingly he's still tottering on @ 68 |
| 08:32.49 | raster | hmm |
| 08:32.54 | raster | well my sympathies man |
| 08:32.56 | SpeedEvil | The pond in that site - 6' deep - she dug herself with spade+barrow - and built the gazebo, and cast the lantern, and ... |
| 08:33.08 | raster | i can empathise a bit (grandma died a few years back) |
| 08:33.24 | mickeyl | sorry to hear that SpeedEvil, all the best. |
| 08:33.28 | raster | hmm so what was wrong? |
| 08:33.31 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: many thanks. |
| 08:33.33 | raster | ahtritis? |
| 08:33.35 | raster | or worse? |
| 08:33.50 | SpeedEvil | raster: cancer - they thought they'd caught it, but it carried spreading. |
| 08:34.32 | methril|work | SpeedEvil: all the best too |
| 08:34.33 | raster | oooh cancer. i see now. :( well at least she had warning and got to "get stuff done" |
| 08:34.40 | SpeedEvil | As you can see - the garden is somewhat of a challenge. |
| 08:34.43 | raster | as opposed to suddenly going without notice |
| 08:34.48 | SpeedEvil | raster: not really - she was that sort anyway :) |
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| 08:40.40 | raster | SpeedEvil: well all the best man. i hope things are on the up for you from now on. |
| 08:40.46 | SpeedEvil | Hope so. |
| 08:41.07 | husku | SpeedEvil: my condolences also. |
| 08:41.18 | SpeedEvil | Annoying aspect is that I'll have little hacking cash - as the limited available is going on silly stuff like 20 tons of gravel :/ |
| 08:41.30 | SpeedEvil | husku: thanks |
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| 08:50.05 | fredrin | SpeedEvil: sorry man, cancer stupid shit |
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| 09:05.12 | lord-carlos | hi, i just got my OpenMoko today. When i try to update it, i get some errors: http://cxg.de/?id=CiztmFWuLbRQBZn |
| 09:05.37 | ndnihil | that's normal |
| 09:05.38 | raster | SpeedEvil: hacking gravel! |
| 09:05.53 | lord-carlos | looks like i need to fixsome /etc/opkg/* files |
| 09:05.56 | lord-carlos | mkey |
| 09:06.08 | SpeedEvil | http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=56.216825~-3.112191&style=h&lvl=19&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&cid=21859B3B4291165F!111&encType=1 |
| 09:06.13 | ndnihil | ideally you'll probably want to flash a new image to it |
| 09:06.21 | SpeedEvil | - to be gravelled area - as you can see - the garden has lots of stuff :) |
| 09:06.30 | lord-carlos | yes, maybe later |
| 09:06.55 | lord-carlos | is there a list of software for this image? |
| 09:07.09 | lord-carlos | the grafic installer wont work |
| 09:08.15 | ndnihil | have you checked the wiki for updated pkg lists? |
| 09:09.00 | lord-carlos | nope |
| 09:09.39 | ndnihil | wiki is the first place to start |
| 09:13.54 | ndnihil | ugh, python is icky |
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| 09:15.00 | lord-carlos | mh, so i need to flash the Moko to get the new 2008.12 OS? |
| 09:15.16 | ndnihil | sounds about right |
| 09:15.44 | ndnihil | I got mine about 1.5 weeks ago, had it out of the box less than an hour before flashing it |
| 09:15.48 | ndnihil | it's pretty painless |
| 09:16.01 | lord-carlos | i think i will try an other OS then |
| 09:16.03 | ndnihil | and low risk of bricking it |
| 09:16.29 | ndnihil | one thing you'll probably want to do, is upgrade the GSM firmware |
| 09:16.53 | ndnihil | it fixes several bugs |
| 09:17.34 | *** join/#openmoko bluetoad (n=peter@62.70.2.252) |
| 09:18.25 | henk | and NOT use Om2008 |
| 09:19.15 | lord-carlos | i think i will try SHR |
| 09:19.35 | ndnihil | good choice |
| 09:19.44 | ndnihil | it seems to be the most active |
| 09:19.57 | lord-carlos | is it a good idea to install the Qi bootloader? |
| 09:20.03 | lord-carlos | or do i not need it? |
| 09:20.05 | henk | yes |
| 09:20.12 | ndnihil | eh, I've not bothered with it, but some people like it |
| 09:20.13 | *** join/#openmoko axel (n=axel@p5492C742.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:20.18 | husku | is there any (software) way to see which gsm firmware im running? |
| 09:20.23 | *** join/#openmoko Hire (n=hire@host241-218-dynamic.56-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:20.42 | hipitihop | ndnihil: what do you recommend to get both sides of the call volume to be reasonable ? |
| 09:20.55 | ndnihil | husku: modem information under settings |
| 09:21.08 | husku | ndnihil: of course. should have checked that. thanks :) |
| 09:21.08 | ndnihil | hipitihop: have both parties yell a lot |
| 09:21.19 | hipitihop | ndnihil: rofl |
| 09:21.20 | ndnihil | (I haven't had any call volume issues) |
| 09:22.20 | *** part/#openmoko ftclausen (n=fclausen@213.244.186.121) |
| 09:22.30 | hipitihop | ndnihil: well initial calls after install were totally silent until I found mixer setting was mute... now I can hear other party and they can hear me, but levels are low for both |
| 09:22.51 | ndnihil | what dist? |
| 09:23.09 | *** join/#openmoko c0d3x42 (n=vince@78.33.60.2) |
| 09:23.09 | hipitihop | ndnihil: shr unstable April 6 |
| 09:23.56 | ndnihil | hrm, mixer settings maxed? |
| 09:24.04 | *** join/#openmoko kwek (n=kwek@150.Red-83-39-197.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:24.08 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re927a1ec8855 10/fsogsmd/ (6 files in 3 dirs): fsogsm: move at command factor into modem; add more info to individual at commands |
| 09:24.11 | Wonka | .oO( maxer settings mixed? ) |
| 09:24.32 | mickeyl | Wonka: weren't you the one who promised a kernel muxer? |
| 09:24.41 | hipitihop | ndnihil: haven'tplayed nay further, simply turned off mute. looks like lots of options in mixer |
| 09:24.42 | Wonka | mickeyl: never |
| 09:24.46 | mickeyl | hmm, k |
| 09:25.29 | Wonka | mickeyl: I'm more about GPS... |
| 09:25.42 | mickeyl | ah, mixed you up then, sorry |
| 09:25.47 | Wonka | np |
| 09:25.49 | mickeyl | i think it was Writchie |
| 09:25.55 | mickeyl | who promised a kernel muxer and then suddenly disappeared for good :D |
| 09:25.59 | mickeyl | 1 year ago or so |
| 09:26.03 | mickeyl | must have been a hard task |
| 09:26.05 | mickeyl | *g* |
| 09:26.18 | *** join/#openmoko agg1n (n=jan@static-87-245-51-12.teleos-web.de) |
| 09:26.34 | *** join/#openmoko BillK_ (n=Bill@203.59.139.142) |
| 09:26.52 | raster | hehhe |
| 09:26.57 | raster | disappearing... |
| 09:26.57 | axel | Hello! Today I've got my Freeruuner (date code: 20091016) but I can't enter the SIM PIN, as the keyboard to enter the pin doesn't show any numbers. Is there a quick way to enter the PIN? |
| 09:27.00 | lord-carlos | So if i want to instal SHR i download NeoTools, on my computer, update the bootloader, update the kernel, update the root filesystem? |
| 09:27.01 | raster | not... uncommon |
| 09:27.15 | ndnihil | neotools? |
| 09:27.19 | ndnihil | I used dfu-util |
| 09:27.23 | ndnihil | to flash mine |
| 09:27.36 | SpeedEvil | axel: IIRC drag from bottom to top or something to activate numbs |
| 09:28.13 | axel | SpeedEvil: AH!!!!!!!! Thanks! |
| 09:28.14 | lord-carlos | ndnihil: "NeoTool is a bash script for your desktop system to provide a friendly GUI frontend to some common management tasks, like for example flashing Openmoko smartphones." |
| 09:28.24 | ndnihil | ah |
| 09:31.53 | ndnihil | is learning python |
| 09:32.00 | ndnihil | and the more I learn, the more I wish it were perl instead |
| 09:32.34 | mickeyl | why do you bother then? |
| 09:32.40 | mickeyl | there's a gazillian of languages out there |
| 09:32.44 | mickeyl | just pick one you like most |
| 09:32.55 | ndnihil | yes, and python is the most prevalent and supported on the FR |
| 09:32.58 | ndnihil | at least in SHR |
| 09:33.16 | lord-carlos | some one know if i can use the dfu-util version from debian testing repo? |
| 09:33.38 | ndnihil | depends on what kind of system you run I suppose |
| 09:33.44 | ndnihil | do you run debian testing? |
| 09:34.09 | lord-carlos | yes, i mean if the version from debian testing supports the open moko |
| 09:34.22 | lord-carlos | Version: 0.0+r4880-1 |
| 09:34.43 | lord-carlos | ah, found something |
| 09:34.45 | lord-carlos | should work |
| 09:38.09 | rwhitby | Project B is an internet connected drink coaster |
| 09:38.31 | rwhitby | but a square one, not a round one. |
| 09:39.28 | henk | ndnihil: have a look at ruby?! |
| 09:39.30 | *** join/#openmoko gDD (i=io@125.116.22.136) |
| 09:39.52 | rwhitby | a screen with three buttons on the front, and you can map the buttons to your favourite drinks, and it automatically tells the waitress what you bring next |
| 09:39.53 | ndnihil | dont know that one off the top of my head either, it'd probably be equally as annoying as python |
| 09:40.16 | ndnihil | I can read my position from GPS by way of dbus now |
| 09:40.21 | SpeedEvil | rwhitby: a 1200*1400 LCD - 300DPI |
| 09:40.32 | ndnihil | in py |
| 09:40.49 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: 22:56 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFuwhPXYxxI |
| 09:40.53 | *** join/#openmoko dns53 (n=dns@ppp246-215.static.internode.on.net) |
| 09:41.08 | rwhitby | I expect it's the same screen as gta02 |
| 09:41.52 | rwhitby | hmm - maybe a super-duper universal remote control ... |
| 09:41.56 | hipitihop | ndnihil: at the risk of a language flame war, do yourself a favour and look at newspeak, smalltalk, lisp or python |
| 09:42.13 | ndnihil | heh, looking at python now |
| 09:42.21 | ndnihil | lisp is for masochists |
| 09:42.23 | mickeyl | tosses Vala, C++, and C into the game |
| 09:42.32 | ndnihil | yeah, I think I'll probably end up using C |
| 09:42.46 | rwhitby | Project B - "B" for "Beer Coaster" |
| 09:42.55 | SpeedEvil | Hmm |
| 09:42.55 | ndnihil | but figured I should learn some py for broken stuff that I didn't write |
| 09:42.59 | ndnihil | like sms-sentry |
| 09:43.03 | mickeyl | although you might do yourself a favour if you look at Vala before. |
| 09:43.12 | hipitihop | mickeyl: +1 for Vala and C is a given for low level, C++ an abomination |
| 09:43.16 | mickeyl | that way you get C's speed _and_ have something that's more reeadable |
| 09:43.32 | ndnihil | bah, what could be more readable than C? |
| 09:43.34 | ndnihil | :) |
| 09:43.37 | mickeyl | *cough* |
| 09:43.57 | hipitihop | splatters coffee over keyboard |
| 09:44.11 | rwhitby | Z80 assembly |
| 09:44.14 | ndnihil | is vala scripted? |
| 09:44.21 | mickeyl | FOO* TURN_THIS_INTO_A_FOO( this_is_some_weired_creation_method_since_we_are_turning_something_into_O_O_that_doesn_t_support_it() ); |
| 09:44.30 | hipitihop | rwhitby: now we are talking :-) |
| 09:44.30 | mickeyl | *shrug* |
| 09:44.42 | mickeyl | ndnihil: no, vala compiles to C. |
| 09:45.00 | ndnihil | er, so it's a lib/api? |
| 09:45.09 | mickeyl | no, it's a programming language |
| 09:45.12 | mickeyl | that compiles to C. |
| 09:45.20 | ndnihil | hrm |
| 09:45.30 | ndnihil | worth a look for entertainment value if nothing else |
| 09:45.30 | mickeyl | remember Cfront? |
| 09:45.37 | ndnihil | vaguely, never used it though |
| 09:45.41 | mickeyl | same idea |
| 09:45.48 | mickeyl | high level language as preprocessor |
| 09:46.32 | hipitihop | and squeak uses slang for its VM which also compiles to C |
| 09:47.56 | hipitihop | hides after going OT with language prefs |
| 09:48.54 | ndnihil | heh, someone ported gcc, but not make |
| 09:49.34 | ndnihil | unstable has it |
| 09:51.02 | hipitihop | notices shr does not auto suspend when no usb connected and periodically flashed lcd backlight, could that be calypso reregistering ? |
| 09:52.31 | SpeedEvil | rwhitby: 'we're sorry, this video is no longer available?' |
| 09:53.13 | SpeedEvil | ah - I'm having DNS problems |
| 09:54.50 | hipitihop | after trying Android and SHR, looks like time to go back to qt-extended and try -improved |
| 09:56.42 | *** join/#openmoko Sharwin_F (n=Sharwin_@198.pool85-50-73.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 09:59.18 | *** join/#openmoko schinkelm (n=mas@p54B2D4D9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:03.02 | *** join/#openmoko jc (n=jcchao@219.85.82.249) |
| 10:03.54 | *** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i577B4C32.versanet.de) |
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| 10:17.53 | *** join/#openmoko ndrs__ (n=andres@89.100.140.238) |
| 10:17.55 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 10:22.23 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178031192.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:27.08 | lord-carlos | mhh, after installing Qi, new kernel, and SHR, my computer can not find usb0 anymore |
| 10:28.17 | *** join/#openmoko a93afz (i=c1530b1a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-32c3cf26e3401fb8) |
| 10:30.19 | *** join/#openmoko jpieper (n=jpieper@207-180-187-171.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 10:32.59 | axel | I can't log in to the Freerunner (date code: 20091016) via ssh. "ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.202 port 22: Connection refused". The Freerunner is pingable. I ecuted the ssh-command as well as with sudo a sudo -i. |
| 10:35.11 | *** join/#openmoko jpieper (n=jpieper@207-180-187-171.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 10:38.13 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@93.84.112.66) |
| 10:39.44 | *** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD446E0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:40.06 | *** join/#openmoko jpieper (n=jpieper@207-180-187-171.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 10:40.39 | *** join/#openmoko root_at (n=Anon@194.208.239.170) |
| 10:43.15 | lord-carlos | ah, usb0 works egain |
| 10:44.00 | jc | lord-carlos: congratulation. |
| 10:44.04 | *** join/#openmoko valos[fr] (n=valos@coquelicot-adsl.easter-eggs.com) |
| 10:45.04 | lord-carlos | thanks |
| 10:48.35 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.64.23) |
| 10:48.36 | *** join/#openmoko jpieper (n=jpieper@207-180-187-171.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 10:50.09 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.78.178.63) |
| 10:50.24 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@91-113-122-237.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 10:51.47 | dns53 | is there anything that you can do about the white screen of death? |
| 10:55.44 | *** join/#openmoko weirdedout (n=gonePost@220-253-154-76.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 10:56.16 | lindi- | dns53: it's symptom, there can be different causes |
| 10:58.12 | dns53 | anything apart from not suspending that works? |
| 10:58.53 | *** join/#openmoko gDD (i=io@125.116.22.136) |
| 10:58.56 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.64.23) |
| 11:00.49 | lindi- | dns53: i haven't hit wsod |
| 11:01.00 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl (n=bumbl@91-114-177-66.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 11:01.06 | lindi- | dns53: maybe it's a hardware difference? |
| 11:01.39 | dns53 | it may be, mine would have been in the first batch, they did make some hardware fixes in the later batches |
| 11:02.05 | lindi- | dns53: better run your exact setup on some other phone to see |
| 11:03.06 | dns53 | well i've tried different uboot, qi, kernel, distro's and most have the problem |
| 11:03.28 | lindi- | dns53: tried not running X? |
| 11:04.11 | dns53 | qtopia does not seem to have the problem so it is x and the kernel based |
| 11:04.41 | *** join/#openmoko badcloud (n=root@ti400720a342-1188.bb.online.no) |
| 11:06.16 | badcloud | in shr-unstable: mplayer can play ringtone on command but there's no ringing on imcoming call? profile is set to default |
| 11:06.32 | badcloud | *incoming |
| 11:08.09 | badcloud | pidgin doesn't play sounds either |
| 11:09.11 | lord-carlos | can pythm play mp3 files? |
| 11:09.19 | badcloud | I think it has to do with some configuration between mplayer and the apps in question |
| 11:10.26 | badcloud | lemme install pythm first |
| 11:11.02 | dns53 | there is a package that has shr ringtones, is it installed by default? i think it can atleast play oggs |
| 11:11.07 | lord-carlos | SHR has it by default |
| 11:11.23 | badcloud | segfault on install |
| 11:11.26 | lord-carlos | i mean pythm is installed by default |
| 11:11.35 | badcloud | can't see it |
| 11:12.20 | badcloud | but mplayer plays oggs fine |
| 11:13.42 | badcloud | I'm gonna reboot |
| 11:14.15 | lord-carlos | is there an other app for connection to wifi? Becouse mofi does not work :( |
| 11:14.53 | jc | lord-carlos: the one I know is mofi :( |
| 11:14.56 | dns53 | have you turned wifi on in the shr settings first? mofi does not turn it on |
| 11:15.03 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-73-168.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 11:15.13 | lord-carlos | yes. But i will double check |
| 11:17.36 | *** join/#openmoko weirdedout (n=gonePost@220-253-51-101.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 11:18.48 | lord-carlos | mmh, on start up i get some erors, Unknown boot option, and something with hw ether and a mac adress |
| 11:19.23 | henk | nothing to worry about afaik |
| 11:20.01 | dent | lord-carlos: I see it too; yet it seems that sometimes I see it, sometimes I see different output, like 2n-th time I see it, 2n+1-th time I don't :) |
| 11:20.17 | lord-carlos | hehe |
| 11:20.21 | dent | i.e. alternating |
| 11:21.07 | lord-carlos | oh, wifi was off again |
| 11:21.58 | dent | lord-carlos: what happens if you press AUX? |
| 11:22.08 | dent | it doesn't do anything for me... (used tolock the screen) |
| 11:22.24 | lord-carlos | it gets locked |
| 11:22.42 | *** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD446E0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:23.16 | dent | lucky you :) |
| 11:23.22 | dent | what SHR are you running? |
| 11:23.53 | lord-carlos | just instelled it |
| 11:23.56 | lord-carlos | testing i think |
| 11:24.07 | dent | hm, I'm on unstable |
| 11:24.11 | lord-carlos | got my moko some hours ago |
| 11:24.16 | lord-carlos | Mofi still dont work |
| 11:24.31 | dent | it never worked for me... good old ifup/ifdown :) |
| 11:24.32 | *** join/#openmoko badcloud (n=root@ti400720a342-1188.bb.online.no) |
| 11:24.57 | badcloud | reboot fixed it |
| 11:25.48 | ndnihil | mofi looks like its hung when it doesnt find any APs |
| 11:26.02 | ndnihil | and dont expect to find any unless they're real close |
| 11:26.10 | lord-carlos | it finds them |
| 11:26.15 | ndnihil | ah |
| 11:26.26 | lord-carlos | but when i click on connect, its freezes |
| 11:26.27 | ndnihil | then you have the same problem I do, wont connect? |
| 11:26.30 | ndnihil | yeh |
| 11:26.34 | lord-carlos | its a WPA network if its matters |
| 11:26.38 | ndnihil | same here |
| 11:26.43 | dent | same here |
| 11:26.46 | lord-carlos | :( |
| 11:26.47 | dent | but I never investigated... |
| 11:26.55 | ndnihil | I see zero attempts in the AP logs for connection from the FR |
| 11:26.58 | henk | lord-carlos: which kernel? which distribution? |
| 11:27.00 | dent | I found it less painful to edit wpa_supplicant.conf |
| 11:27.10 | ndnihil | and manually bringing it up doesnt work either |
| 11:27.12 | lord-carlos | henk: SHR testing |
| 11:27.22 | ndnihil | SHR testing here too |
| 11:27.24 | lord-carlos | henk: dunno witch kernel. i am new to this |
| 11:27.35 | axel | I can't log in to the Freerunner via ssh. Freerunner date code: 20091016. "ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.202 port 22: Connection refused". The Freerunner is pingable. I executed the ssh-command as sudo a well as in a root shell (sudo -i). As I got the Freerunnter today, no changes have been made so far (As I could figure it aut it's running QT.).How can I connect via ssh then? |
| 11:28.07 | ndnihil | axel: I dont think qt has ssh enabled by default |
| 11:28.10 | lord-carlos | henk: this kernel â http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin |
| 11:28.17 | ndnihil | I couldnt connect to mine when it had qt on it either |
| 11:28.55 | lord-carlos | no wifi :( That sucks |
| 11:29.52 | badcloud | lord-carlos, I'm using the same kernel on shr-unstable |
| 11:30.15 | lord-carlos | badcloud: and Mofi works for you? |
| 11:30.20 | badcloud | it took a second boot for wifi |
| 11:30.34 | lord-carlos | this is my 2 or 3 boot |
| 11:30.39 | valos[fr] | dent: if lock doesn't work with AUX, I think you must bind AUX key to "Desktop -> Desktop Simple Lock" in e17 settings |
| 11:31.00 | dent | valos[fr]: will try, thx |
| 11:31.09 | badcloud | I see. I edit /etc/network/interfaces |
| 11:31.21 | lord-carlos | Is there a list out there with softwere for opkg? |
| 11:32.52 | badcloud | terminal command 'opkg list | more' |
| 11:33.17 | lord-carlos | ok |
| 11:34.04 | lord-carlos | someone know a good web browser for the moko? |
| 11:34.18 | lord-carlos | or any other "must have" software for SHR? |
| 11:34.21 | badcloud | you can see access points by using 'iwlist eth0 scan' |
| 11:34.37 | badcloud | dillo, minimo |
| 11:34.48 | valos[fr] | lord-carlos: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Browser_review |
| 11:35.13 | lord-carlos | badcloud: yes i know. i can probably also connect with iwconfig ... but thats fucked up with only a tuchscreen |
| 11:35.23 | lord-carlos | thanhs badcloud valos[fr] |
| 11:35.28 | lord-carlos | *thanks |
| 11:35.35 | dent | valos[fr]: oki, found it and it works, thx again :) |
| 11:37.17 | badcloud | well, the way do it is to populate the ap list in /etc/network/interfaces, then comment/uncomment |
| 11:37.52 | badcloud | *way I do it |
| 11:39.15 | *** join/#openmoko mirko-paroli (n=mirko@91-64-217-87-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 11:40.05 | lord-carlos | "hey, can i borrow you phone? I just have to check my mails" "yes, you just need to edit the /etc/network/interfaces with vi and restart the networkmanager " ... |
| 11:41.07 | badcloud | then don't lend your phone out for emailchecking :) |
| 11:42.36 | badcloud | plus, how often are you switching between ap's? you aren't Indiana Jones, are you? |
| 11:43.56 | lord-carlos | home, university, friends .. sometime 3 on one day |
| 11:44.51 | *** join/#openmoko d-b (n=alias@124-168-183-40.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:46.15 | badcloud | that shouldn't be a big strain on your stylus |
| 11:47.28 | *** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-095-208-075-238.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 11:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko booxter (n=booxter@cpmsq.epam.com) |
| 11:50.40 | *** join/#openmoko [-zeno-] (n=zeno@host118-91-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:52.13 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 12:01.48 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag- (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 12:09.15 | *** join/#openmoko lord-carlos (i=carlos@ip-56-128.bnaa.dk) |
| 12:09.36 | *** part/#openmoko tig| (n=Tig|@aurix.plus.com) |
| 12:12.46 | lord-carlos | what programm do you guys use for mail? |
| 12:12.57 | ndnihil | I use claws |
| 12:13.10 | lindi- | lord-carlos: gnus |
| 12:13.10 | ndnihil | from the SHR unstable repository |
| 12:13.52 | badcloud | so is the 'plan B' device gonna be a landline phone? |
| 12:14.04 | ndnihil | its an mp3 player |
| 12:14.14 | ndnihil | that doubles as a bookmark |
| 12:14.18 | badcloud | is that a fact |
| 12:14.22 | ndnihil | no |
| 12:14.25 | badcloud | ha |
| 12:14.26 | ndnihil | completely made up in fact |
| 12:14.30 | lord-carlos | ok thanks |
| 12:14.37 | badcloud | (I figured) |
| 12:15.14 | *** part/#openmoko c0d3x42 (n=vince@78.33.60.2) |
| 12:16.17 | *** join/#openmoko Mirrakor (n=linuser@p57B2C838.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:16.30 | Mirrakor | which GPS chips is in the neo freerunner? |
| 12:17.51 | badcloud | not too many big marketing interests to corner apart from portable media player and cell phone, is there? |
| 12:18.11 | lindi- | Mirrakor: [[u-blox ANTARIS 4 ATR0635]] chip |
| 12:18.29 | Mirrakor | lindi-: thx, I searched on the wiki, but couldn't find it(?!) |
| 12:18.37 | lindi- | Mirrakor: data sheet http://www.u-blox.com/products/Data_Sheets/ATR0630_35_SglChip_Data_Sheet(GPS.G4-X-06009).pdf |
| 12:18.59 | lindi- | Mirrakor: this is in Neo_FreeRunner_Hardware.ref.wiki |
| 12:19.21 | lord-carlos | i just instelled SHR, and i already get an 404 on opkg update |
| 12:19.32 | lord-carlos | is that normal? |
| 12:20.16 | Mirrakor | so the Freerunner GPS is equal to the GTA02 gps? |
| 12:20.18 | *** join/#openmoko alexxy (n=alexxy@gentoo/developer/alexxy) |
| 12:20.29 | ndnihil | freerunner = gta02 |
| 12:20.40 | ndnihil | so yes |
| 12:20.41 | Dave | Moo |
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| 12:20.54 | ndnihil | hi dave |
| 12:20.56 | ndnihil | moo indeed |
| 12:21.15 | Dave | :] |
| 12:21.21 | Mirrakor | moo |
| 12:21.40 | *** join/#openmoko morphis (n=morphis@f049022143.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:23.48 | lord-carlos | Can somebody help me with that error? : opkg install claws â An error ocurred, return value: -50512. |
| 12:24.31 | badcloud | that just means that the package isn't listed |
| 12:24.35 | ndnihil | wget <claws from unstable repository> |
| 12:24.45 | ndnihil | opkg install <claws from unstable repository> |
| 12:24.56 | ndnihil | then go get the lib(s) it complains about |
| 12:25.02 | ndnihil | and install it again |
| 12:25.34 | lord-carlos | ok |
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| 12:31.54 | Carlos-mob | openmoko irc test :-] |
| 12:32.07 | axel | ndnihil: How to enable it? |
| 12:32.23 | axel | ndnihil: SSH in QT? |
| 12:32.42 | lord-carlos | on qukenet i get k-lined with the openmoko and pidgin |
| 12:32.54 | *** part/#openmoko Carlos-mob (n=root@ip-56-128.bnaa.dk) |
| 12:34.00 | badcloud | same for me on dalnet |
| 12:36.03 | axel | How to activate the SSH server in qtopia? |
| 12:36.36 | lord-carlos | axel: do you have an terminal in qtopia? |
| 12:37.07 | lord-carlos | if yes, try something like /etc/init.d/ssh start |
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| 12:39.06 | axel | lord-carlos: Thanks. But I don't see any possibility in Qtopia itself. |
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| 12:39.21 | axel | lord-carlos: to open a console. |
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| 12:55.45 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07vala-dbus-binding-tool * rdd4843b97c36 10/src/vala-dbus-binding-tool.vala: |
| 12:55.45 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: Revert "add null check for void returntypes" |
| 12:55.45 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: This reverts commit e35b4711a9a2010a007b9ae3f0ba85f5b902a126. |
| 12:55.45 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07vala-dbus-binding-tool * rde5398704c07 10/src/vala-dbus-binding-tool.vala: add null check for void returntypes |
| 12:55.57 | *** part/#openmoko gmzhuo (n=gmzhuo@222.210.147.75) |
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| 13:07.23 | ndnihil | is the DBus API spec at git.freesmartphone.org still valid? |
| 13:08.07 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (i=ruoso@200.220.244.130) |
| 13:09.41 | axel | How to connect to the internet with the Freerunner (OM2008) with the internet over Kubuntu (8.04) and without any ssh server installed on the freerunner? |
| 13:09.58 | axel | There is no wifi network either. |
| 13:10.24 | ndnihil | flash a more friendly image to your phone |
| 13:10.53 | henk | axel: you ubuntu needs to play nat-router. |
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| 13:44.50 | ndnihil | a blank stare of awe and amazement to whoever can point me to the source for openmoko-messages |
| 13:44.56 | ndnihil | 3 |
| 13:45.11 | *** part/#openmoko Mirrakor (n=linuser@p57B2C838.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:45.22 | ndnihil | all I've found is empty references to git repositories that dont exist |
| 13:48.49 | lindi- | ndnihil: who distributed you the binary? |
| 13:49.01 | ndnihil | came with shr-testing |
| 13:49.15 | ndnihil | closest ive seen to sources for that is http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/sources/ |
| 13:49.27 | ndnihil | but who the hell organizes packages by license? |
| 13:49.39 | lindi- | ndnihil: organizes? |
| 13:49.54 | ndnihil | yes |
| 13:50.03 | ndnihil | mkdir LicenseName1 |
| 13:50.14 | ndnihil | mv packageswiththatlicence LicenseName1/ |
| 13:50.17 | ndnihil | etc... |
| 13:50.57 | saracen | qte is actually really decent ;x |
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| 13:52.51 | ndnihil | and how about that |
| 13:52.56 | ndnihil | looking through each and every dir |
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| 13:53.09 | ndnihil | no source for openmoko-messages3 |
| 13:55.21 | Sharwin_F- | ndnihil, you can find the sources here: git clone http://shr.bearstech.com/repo/shr.git |
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| 13:56.44 | ndnihil | many thanks |
| 13:56.54 | ndnihil | and a blank stare of awe and amazement |
| 13:56.57 | ndnihil | etc.. |
| 13:56.59 | ndnihil | :) |
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| 14:02.59 | dent | I was wondering... it's there something like "GPS-notepad"? I.e. something that would let me take notes + would record gps coordinates with them |
| 14:03.09 | dent | either points, ro tracks + annotations on tracks |
| 14:03.31 | dent | (I know I can log tracks with tangogps... but that is w/o any annotations afaik) |
| 14:08.29 | *** join/#openmoko ayeuu (n=ayeuu@89-158-224-174.rev.dartybox.com) |
| 14:15.02 | max_posedon | dent, Can't you "emulate" it with specific POI?) |
| 14:15.30 | dent | max_posedon? you mean something in tangogps? (don't knwo the app much) |
| 14:16.15 | max_posedon | click->POI->add POI |
| 14:16.51 | max_posedon | there you can add some text, and attach to specific point |
| 14:17.14 | max_posedon | it isn't solution, just a kinda hack, which may be you find usefull. |
| 14:17.43 | *** join/#openmoko ttols (n=ttols@121.139.26.128) |
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| 14:19.35 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03ainulindale 07libframeworkd-glib * ra48aec549d95 10/src/ (13 files in 4 dirs): Added G_[BEGIN|END]_DECLS thanks to David Kozub. |
| 14:21.30 | *** join/#openmoko APz (n=fn-apz@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-fe19df00-212.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:23.59 | slaxxin | then if u click show poi then it pops up on the map a yellow marker |
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| 14:35.54 | lord-carlos | how do i install pas for tangogps? |
| 14:35.58 | lord-carlos | *maps |
| 14:36.03 | *** join/#openmoko gfather (n=g@77.241.65.48) |
| 14:38.42 | Weiss | lord-carlos: it should automatically download them if an internet connection is present |
| 14:38.55 | Weiss | or you can use its "map download" function to pre-download stuff |
| 14:39.21 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@217.113.163.70) |
| 14:39.44 | Weiss | however, tile.openstreetmap.org seems to be down.. :( |
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| 14:40.57 | lord-carlos | ok thanks |
| 14:42.12 | slaxxin | if u dont have anything on your sdcard{ another os} u can cause the maps to go on the sdcard |
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| 14:43.17 | Weiss | hmm, tile.osm back now, but slow... |
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| 14:45.55 | baba_melone | Hi |
| 14:46.07 | baba_melone | Im trying to use navit on shr, but it doesnt start |
| 14:46.29 | baba_melone | I get following messages in the console when trying and starting navit: |
| 14:46.36 | baba_melone | navit:main:Using '/home/root/.navit/navit.xml' |
| 14:46.37 | baba_melone | navit:main:No instance has been created, exiting |
| 14:47.08 | baba_melone | Unfortunately these messages dont say anything useful for me |
| 14:47.45 | baba_melone | Version is the latest svn |
| 14:47.56 | baba_melone | 2189 |
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| 14:52.05 | dent | max_posedon: thanks |
| 14:52.21 | dent | still, I add "gps-notepad" to my ever-enlarging TODO list :) |
| 14:52.26 | dent | maybe one day :) |
| 14:54.43 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * r44a8dd760cdd 10/src/main.vala: catch error on shutdown |
| 14:54.44 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * r6564f2678916 10/src/server.vala: |
| 14:54.45 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: fso-abyss: catch up with renaming the control class from Server to Manager in libgsm0710mux |
| 14:54.45 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: thanks emfoxzhou for spotting! |
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| 15:15.03 | Dave | Leinir! |
| 15:16.37 | leinir | *curtsies* Sir :) |
| 15:16.53 | Dave | :) |
| 15:16.58 | Dave | pets Leinir |
| 15:17.24 | leinir | purrrs and leans into the pettings :) |
| 15:19.10 | Dave | ;) |
| 15:19.30 | Dave | starts openvibe |
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| 15:22.49 | Dave | hahahaha |
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| 16:20.53 | Serdar | what kind of partitions do I need for multi-boot? |
| 16:22.13 | joejoe | Serdar, look into documentation of your boot loader |
| 16:22.20 | PaulFertser | gfather: Hey :) Do you already know about E RTL news? |
| 16:22.39 | joejoe | Serdar, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/U-boot or http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qi |
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| 16:35.42 | PaulFertser | gfather: ping TAsn to try his wip RTL support ;) |
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| 16:40.22 | PBeck | ahoi |
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| 16:41.31 | SpeedEvil | PBeck: have you heard the news? 'Project B' is in fact going to sell billions. OM have gone into partnership with the zeta reticulans, and one will be implanted in each and every human! |
| 16:41.56 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: lol |
| 16:42.33 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: the world will be renamed to mokoworld :P |
| 16:42.56 | leinir | More seriously, i was guessing this morning that it was going to be a netbook type thing - something like the touchbook :) |
| 16:43.08 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 16:43.14 | SpeedEvil | Tablet maybe |
| 16:43.16 | leinir | would get one ;) |
| 16:43.30 | SpeedEvil | I can't see OM succeeding in tablet space though |
| 16:43.33 | leinir | *nods* That's basically what the touchbook is - check it out if you don't know it already :) www.alwaysinnovating.com |
| 16:43.35 | SpeedEvil | too many _way_ bigger players |
| 16:43.58 | max_posedon | SpeedEvil, isn't OM have same dream before gta01?) |
| 16:44.36 | lindi- | larsc: forgot to cc you, can you check http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2263 ? |
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| 16:45.40 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: in which space then? :> |
| 16:45.50 | SpeedEvil | PBeck: I have no idea |
| 16:46.45 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: areospace? :P |
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| 16:47.19 | SpeedEvil | There are lots of plausible options that start 'Find a venture capitalist with $50m to fund development' |
| 16:47.53 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: i hope the have success |
| 16:47.56 | PBeck | *they |
| 16:47.59 | SpeedEvil | What can be done with a teeny investment, ... |
| 16:48.07 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: when its a usable device - i will buy it |
| 16:48.27 | PBeck | not a the freerunner *scnr* :D |
| 16:49.03 | PBeck | *as |
| 16:49.23 | PBeck | ok the freeerunner will be usable in a few month - the optimal geek device :) |
| 16:49.31 | leinir | Thing is, something like the touchbook would be vastly more useful to me than a phone, really... |
| 16:50.25 | leinir | Really, the n900 (or whatever) is likely going to be the ultimate device for me - 3G chip so we have data and texting covered, and it specifically does /not/ do voice... which i don't much like anyway ;) |
| 16:50.35 | PBeck | leinir: but in this segment are big global player :( |
| 16:50.55 | PBeck | leinir: and i think it will not be cheap |
| 16:51.26 | leinir | PBeck: Yes, but if you've got a device that actually works well, which is something that never happened with the freerunner (let's face it)... then suddenly being open becomes a selling point :) |
| 16:51.54 | leinir | If you've got something which doesn't really work, but which is open, then open won't sell it to anybody that isn't an evangelist :) |
| 16:52.06 | PBeck | leinir: i hope that the freerunner will be usable in the future :( |
| 16:52.19 | leinir | Well, so do i - i've got one ;) |
| 16:52.31 | PBeck | leinir: yeah the next openmoko device should work - so i will buy one ;) |
| 16:52.49 | leinir | *nods* :) |
| 16:53.05 | PBeck | leinir: we brought it because the good promotion slogan :P |
| 16:53.21 | PBeck | leinir: in 6 month ready :P |
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| 16:58.10 | PBeck | is project b in development or as new as the announcment? |
| 16:58.37 | leinir | NO idea :) |
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| 17:21.15 | *** join/#openmoko whilo (n=quassel@HSI-KBW-085-216-095-249.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 17:21.22 | whilo | hi |
| 17:21.56 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@79-66-107-124.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 17:21.58 | whilo | is it possible to connect an usb umts dongle to the usb port? |
| 17:22.17 | whilo | one of course which has the correct driver in the linux kernel |
| 17:22.32 | yamitenshi | hi, I'm trying to install Debian to an SD card, but after downloading cdebootstrap.deb, the install script fails saying it can't validate Packages and Release. I've tried different mirrors, but that only results in not being able to download the package at all. Any suggestions on what i could do? |
| 17:22.47 | yamitenshi | whilo, yes, if you can put your neo in USB host mode |
| 17:22.57 | yamitenshi | it should work, if you have the drivers |
| 17:23.07 | whilo | yamitenshi: so you can put it in host mode? |
| 17:23.21 | yamitenshi | whilo, which distro do you use? |
| 17:23.39 | whilo | yamitenshi: none i am thinking about buying a freerunner in general |
| 17:23.47 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.196.130.226) |
| 17:23.47 | whilo | i'd like to use voip then |
| 17:23.48 | yamitenshi | ah, okay |
| 17:24.10 | yamitenshi | well, there's a nice application on opkg.org that allows you to change your usb mode through a GUI |
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| 17:24.44 | whilo | yamitenshi: ok cool, thx |
| 17:25.25 | yamitenshi | so as long as you can get the drivers to work on a freerunner (note: there's no guarantee that if the drivers work on your PC, they'll work on your freerunner too!), you can use the umts dongle |
| 17:25.42 | whilo | yamitenshi: ok |
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| 17:26.34 | whilo | is the freerunner stable enough to run at least 24h without hanging if you intend to use it as a phone? |
| 17:26.47 | yamitenshi | battery life is a serious issue |
| 17:26.57 | whilo | yamitenshi: ok :-( |
| 17:27.14 | yamitenshi | it will run 24h when you enable suspend and barely use the phone, but it won't last much longer than a few hours while calling |
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| 17:27.45 | whilo | yamitenshi: yep well my s60 phone only runs 3-4 hours when i am calling, that would be ok |
| 17:28.12 | whilo | but to be reachable for 1-2 days if you do not anything would be quite important for my phone |
| 17:28.16 | yamitenshi | IIRC, without suspend, but without using the phone at all, meaning you keep the screen locked, and the LCD is turned off, it runs 8 hours before the battery dies |
| 17:28.38 | whilo | and with suspend you are not reachable anymore? |
| 17:28.47 | yamitenshi | I don't think so |
| 17:28.59 | yamitenshi | the suspend is the same kind you have on a laptop/pc |
| 17:29.25 | yamitenshi | never really tried it, I use my neo more as a gadget/portable computer than as a phone |
| 17:30.18 | whilo | yamitenshi: this is all ok, as long as you don't have to carry another phone with you, it would be no problem |
| 17:30.45 | CVirus | I heard that 48 hours of suspend is possible with qt-extended |
| 17:31.04 | whilo | CVirus: you mean 48 hours being reachable? |
| 17:31.16 | CVirus | 48 hours of battery life* |
| 17:31.32 | CVirus | not sure |
| 17:31.43 | max_posedon | whilo, yes |
| 17:32.00 | whilo | hmm that sounds not bad |
| 17:32.04 | max_posedon | gsm modem "eats" now ~25mA |
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| 17:32.32 | toggles_w | max_posedon: was that due to the new firmware? |
| 17:32.33 | max_posedon | may be someday with firmware and deap sleep it can be updated to 5-10mA |
| 17:32.47 | whilo | cool |
| 17:33.18 | max_posedon | toggles_w, as I know it always was, it is without "gsm deep sleep" (as I know) |
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| 17:33.35 | toggles_w | max_posedon: thanks mate |
| 17:33.38 | whilo | and for playing around interest: has anybody here tested plasma (kde) on the freerunner recently? |
| 17:33.38 | max_posedon | I just did few tests, and know that now my phone "eats" ~22mA |
| 17:36.15 | whilo | but powering an usb device like an umts modem would kill the battery i guess |
| 17:36.53 | yamitenshi | whilo, there are ways to charge your phone and connect a USB device, you should check the openmoko.org wiki |
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| 17:37.20 | whilo | yamitenshi: sure thx |
| 17:37.46 | yamitenshi | anyway, now that the chat is more lively, maybe someone could help me out with a debian installation on my neo? |
| 17:37.55 | DocScrutinizer | whilo: Y-cable ;-) |
| 17:38.36 | whilo | DocScrutinizer: ok |
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| 17:41.11 | DocScrutinizer | whilo: with powering the USB from FR you get a minimum bat life of <1h. But can be reasonably more deending on actual powerconsumption of ext device. basically this is no difference to a regular 3G phone e.g. |
| 17:42.00 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:45.01 | DocScrutinizer | whilo: also of course you're reachable when in suspend |
| 17:45.23 | whilo | DocScrutinizer: yep well this is cool |
| 17:45.44 | DocScrutinizer | and figures about modem eating 25mA in standby are probably incorrect |
| 17:45.44 | whilo | i'd like to do debian as i use it everywhere else, i guess it is a question of configuration |
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| 17:45.56 | whilo | the wiki page shows that basically everything should work on debian |
| 17:46.15 | yamitenshi | basically, yes, but only use it if you absolutely know what you're doing |
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| 17:46.34 | yamitenshi | if you want to use it as a phone, FSO or Qt Extended are your best options |
| 17:46.47 | DocScrutinizer | in the end it's the kernel that matters, not the distro |
| 17:46.58 | whilo | ok |
| 17:47.16 | whilo | what is the current status of gnash support? is youtube viewable? |
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| 17:47.42 | whilo | gnash 0.8.5 seems to have made great progress, but i havent been able to test it yet |
| 17:50.13 | whilo | the problem due to the wiki is it does not support opengl rendering on the fr at the moment, so i guess video is damn slow |
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| 17:53.54 | PaulFertser | whilo: gnash has no relation whatsoever to youtube videos. |
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| 17:54.03 | yamitenshi | it does actually |
| 17:54.10 | yamitenshi | youtube videos are flash videos |
| 17:54.20 | yamitenshi | gnash is an open souce flash player thingy IIRC |
| 17:54.37 | PaulFertser | whilo: also i highly doubt opengl implementation (if it ever happens) will help you somehow with video render. Why do you think it will work? |
| 17:55.03 | whilo | PaulFertser: because gnash uses opengl as one of its renderers |
| 17:55.05 | PaulFertser | yamitenshi: flash player != flash video player. Why on earth do you think it tries to render the video itself? |
| 17:55.41 | PaulFertser | whilo: what makes you think that the kind of opengl possible with glamo will suit? |
| 17:55.43 | whilo | PaulFertser: it uses the ffmpeg stack as far as i understand |
| 17:56.10 | whilo | PaulFertser: i am asking to proposing some thesis here |
| 17:56.15 | PaulFertser | whilo: so, it's not gnash related. You can as well try mplayer. |
| 17:56.25 | whilo | PaulFertser: sure |
| 17:57.24 | PaulFertser | whilo: and btw, youtube video usually sucks that much that i doubt anyone likes it. |
| 17:57.48 | whilo | PaulFertser: well that is your opinion... ;-( |
| 17:57.53 | whilo | ;-) |
| 17:57.55 | PaulFertser | whilo: do you have other? |
| 17:58.22 | whilo | youtube video is one of the largest video sites on the net, i don't like it, but i can't change it |
| 17:58.52 | PaulFertser | whilo: moreover, youtube itself sucks like nothing else. Bunch of idiots commenting each other video to get positive feedback on theirs. And also the site doesn't provide an easy way to download. Who can like it? |
| 17:59.26 | whilo | ask my brother,sister,... all the tech sites that publish there information there... |
| 17:59.37 | PaulFertser | whilo: i guess somebody (lindi?) said he could view youtube flv fucking "video" with mplayer and xorg glamo driver. |
| 17:59.56 | PaulFertser | whilo: what's irc nick of your brother? |
| 18:00.05 | *** join/#openmoko freelock_ (n=john@dsl081-165-076.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
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| 18:01.08 | whilo | PaulFertser: lol, i wouldn't give it to you, if he had one. my brother and my sister don't even know what irc is |
| 18:01.32 | whilo | PaulFertser: thx for your help, i am going to get a cigarillo |
| 18:01.34 | PaulFertser | whilo: and i can't understand how can any sane person want to use a site that abuses its users (no download button is a great shame!). |
| 18:01.42 | PaulFertser | whilo: better try weed :) |
| 18:01.48 | whilo | PaulFertser: have you ever used google? |
| 18:01.53 | PaulFertser | whilo: yes :( |
| 18:02.04 | toggles_w | PaulFertser: sounds like you've never been on a boat |
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| 18:02.17 | PaulFertser | whilo: and i know that google supports chinese censorship :( |
| 18:02.28 | whilo | well i cannot imagine how anyone can ever enter any personal information in a google form |
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| 18:02.39 | PaulFertser | toggles_w: do you mean a boat like a water means of transportation? |
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| 18:02.51 | whilo | PaulFertser: no much more worse, google is the biggest and absolutely intransparent information dealer on the world |
| 18:02.51 | toggles_w | PaulFertser: yes |
| 18:03.07 | toggles_w | PaulFertser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7yfISlGLNU |
| 18:03.19 | whilo | this is the thing that nags me the most today |
| 18:03.28 | PaulFertser | whilo: hehe, i guess when you use your real name on the internet, you're pretty much exposed to the world anyway... |
| 18:03.36 | whilo | and wikia search is most likely going to get shut down although it is *really* good |
| 18:04.20 | whilo | PaulFertser: but google centralizes as much information as it can get, that is completely monopolizing the web (which was a decentral structure in the beginning) |
| 18:04.24 | PaulFertser | toggles_w: youtube-dl fails to download. Probably another artificial ip-location based restriction? |
| 18:04.56 | PaulFertser | whilo: yes, i know about that threads. But boycotting google is somewhat hard these days :-/ |
| 18:05.06 | toggles_w | PaulFertser: oh well.. |
| 18:05.07 | PaulFertser | s/threads/threats/ |
| 18:05.22 | whilo | PaulFertser: block it with a transparent proxy |
| 18:05.26 | whilo | ok smoking now |
| 18:05.28 | whilo | cu later |
| 18:05.49 | PaulFertser | tabaco is a useless drug. No joy, lots of harm. IMHO. |
| 18:05.58 | yamitenshi | I beg to differ |
| 18:06.10 | mmontour | whilo: the problem is that lots of other stuff relies on google these days (e.g. searching the Openmoko wiki) |
| 18:06.14 | rooly | what about orange peels? |
| 18:06.16 | yamitenshi | I actually like the taste, and it's helpful against stress :) |
| 18:06.37 | PaulFertser | yamitenshi: placebo effect mostly, as far as i know. |
| 18:06.53 | mmontour | gave up Google for lent |
| 18:07.19 | yamitenshi | PaulFertser, nope, lack of oxygen, plus nicotine, which AFAIK actually calms you down xD |
| 18:07.45 | yamitenshi | not sure about the nicotine though |
| 18:08.31 | yamitenshi | but you inhale so much non-oxygen that the diffusion of oxygen into your blood becomes slower, which is the reason why beginning smokers tend to feel light-headed |
| 18:08.42 | yamitenshi | but it does calm me down :P |
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| 18:09.04 | PaulFertser | yamitenshi: have you heard about special kind of breathing that can lead to effects similar to dissociative stuff? It doesn't need any drugs for that. |
| 18:09.58 | yamitenshi | true, but I still like the taste, which is why I started smoking in the first place |
| 18:10.07 | yamitenshi | besides, I'm addicted xD |
| 18:10.11 | PaulFertser | yamitenshi: i mean, if you need to calm down, you can do that without "stuff", it's a matter of how you think, "it's all in the mind". |
| 18:10.32 | yamitenshi | I know, taking a deep breath is more than enough |
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| 18:10.47 | PaulFertser | I prefer being addicted to people rather than to "things". |
| 18:10.48 | yamitenshi | but smoking does help me in some cases |
| 18:10.54 | yamitenshi | very true :P |
| 18:11.10 | rooly | hmm |
| 18:11.18 | rooly | i'm not so sure that being addicted to people is such a good thing |
| 18:11.42 | yamitenshi | well, people are less reliable than things |
| 18:11.45 | rooly | see, you stopped being able to buy more people if you ran out a hundred and some years ago |
| 18:12.04 | yamitenshi | :P |
| 18:13.35 | PaulFertser | rooly: i'm not sure that being addicted to drugs is such a bad thing too. Well, it makes you dumb, so what? I see nothing inherently bad in being dumb. Moreover, taoism never valued "smartness". So, it's just a matter of personal preference imho. |
| 18:14.17 | yamitenshi | doesn't necessarily make you dumb |
| 18:14.27 | yamitenshi | smoking just makes you dead :P |
| 18:14.35 | rooly | lol |
| 18:14.39 | PaulFertser | Yeah, true :) That's why i say smoking is useless. |
| 18:14.43 | TAsn | PaulFertser, gfather and i are talking constantly ;] |
| 18:14.51 | yamitenshi | well, I think lungs are overrated anyway xD |
| 18:15.03 | PaulFertser | hehe |
| 18:15.37 | PaulFertser | TAsn: great :) cross-nation collaboration to make the world a better place, i like it :) |
| 18:15.54 | TAsn | hehe |
| 18:16.00 | TAsn | well we are neighbors... |
| 18:16.06 | yamitenshi | besides, these days you breathe in enough bad stuff anyway, so breathing through a filter should make things more healthy, right? :P |
| 18:16.09 | TAsn | I've been to his city once ;] |
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| 18:17.15 | PaulFertser | yamitenshi: heh, especially comparing to the amount of bad things i inhale cycling in megapolis :) |
| 18:17.28 | yamitenshi | exactly :P |
| 18:17.42 | yamitenshi | and with all the road work here, my lungs are being destroyed anyway :P |
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| 18:29.06 | Inc_Vega | Hi all |
| 18:29.21 | TAsn | hey, does anyone know how to get the cflags+headers of a lib only if it exists? (autotools) the autotools chan is dead. |
| 18:29.52 | Inc_Vega | any update regarding openmoko, I mean stability (GSM..etc) |
| 18:29.59 | PaulFertser | TAsn: pkg-config? |
| 18:30.18 | TAsn | that's exactly what autotools do |
| 18:30.22 | TAsn | they use pkg-config |
| 18:30.27 | TAsn | though the configure script dies |
| 18:30.33 | TAsn | if there are no matching modules |
| 18:30.38 | TAsn | and I want it to continue anyway |
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| 18:30.57 | TAsn | something like if exists cool, please let me know, if not, I don't mind |
| 18:30.58 | TAsn | ;] |
| 18:31.08 | PaulFertser | TAsn: you can comment out the section in configure or you can comment it in configure.in and do autoreconf. |
| 18:32.00 | TAsn | manually |
| 18:32.04 | TAsn | I want it automatic |
| 18:32.10 | TAsn | if the lib exists |
| 18:32.14 | TAsn | check the cflags |
| 18:32.15 | TAsn | if not, |
| 18:32.27 | TAsn | return empty cflags |
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| 18:33.10 | Sharwin_F- | don't know much about it, but maybe autoheader? |
| 18:34.41 | TAsn | not related |
| 18:34.51 | TAsn | I'm talking about compiler flags |
| 18:35.07 | TAsn | there's probably a way to do an if or something. |
| 18:35.16 | TAsn | check_module[bla] [] [] |
| 18:35.19 | TAsn | or something like that. |
| 18:40.22 | PaulFertser | TAsn: i'd try to look it up in some configure.ac file from any program you know that does that :) |
| 18:41.45 | TAsn | I don't ;] |
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| 18:53.41 | TAsn | btw my gps stopped working |
| 18:53.46 | TAsn | is this normal? |
| 18:53.50 | TAsn | *sad wink* |
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| 19:46.42 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * raf83aeefdadc 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/ (7 files): fsogsmd: playing with mediator syntax |
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| 20:19.38 | cyberalex | someone has tryed bluetooth on last shr unstable? |
| 20:19.46 | *** join/#openmoko knguyen (n=knguyen@wireless-64-11.uawifi.arizona.edu) |
| 20:20.20 | PaulFertser | cyberalex: it doesn't work, we know :) |
| 20:20.32 | PaulFertser | cyberalex: are you a kernel hacker? ;) |
| 20:20.44 | cyberalex | not yet |
| 20:21.47 | cyberalex | i will study linux kernel hacking next 2 years at univerisity ;) |
| 20:22.04 | cyberalex | PaulFertser: it is possible to do something? |
| 20:22.16 | cyberalex | downgrade to bluez 3.x? |
| 20:22.25 | PaulFertser | cyberalex: tell me how to properly kernel bind drivers to the platform devices ;) |
| 20:22.50 | *** join/#openmoko rooly (n=CAC@70.152.102.56) |
| 20:22.50 | PaulFertser | cyberalex: no, that's an issue of usb controller driver not "finding" its device, as far as i can tell. |
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| 20:38.27 | DocScrutinizer | really would love to see someone forking to a "no-more-upstream" branch and tailor a kernel and drivers to *fit* FR |
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| 20:39.07 | *** join/#openmoko knguyen (n=knguyen@wireless-64-11.uawifi.arizona.edu) |
| 20:40.44 | rooly | DocScrutinizer: why don't you do it? |
| 20:41.42 | DocScrutinizer | rooly: cause I'm [hw], not [kernel] |
| 20:42.12 | rooly | so what, your saying you want me to? |
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| 20:42.32 | DocScrutinizer | rooly: and 'cause tomorrow I might hate my idea of today ;D |
| 20:42.55 | rooly | its not a half-bad idea |
| 20:43.08 | rooly | making an OS strictly for the FR? |
| 20:43.35 | SpeedEvil | There are many forks of the kernel. |
| 20:43.40 | SpeedEvil | For all sorts of reasons. |
| 20:45.07 | *** join/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) |
| 20:50.02 | Serdar | is someone useing multiboot with success? |
| 20:52.24 | DocScrutinizer | huh? uboot-menu? sure. or are U talking bout kexec-stuff? |
| 20:52.37 | feitingen | if by success, you mean booting from nand and sd, then yes, but neither boots successfully (which is mostly due to lack of my abilities) |
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| 22:15.34 | lord-carlos | is there a way to stat pidgin not as root? |
| 22:15.59 | max_posedon | yes, easy |
| 22:16.08 | max_posedon | useradd -m user |
| 22:16.12 | max_posedon | passwd user |
| 22:16.16 | max_posedon | su user |
| 22:16.21 | max_posedon | pidgin |
| 22:16.32 | lord-carlos | mkey |
| 22:17.41 | lord-carlos | useradd not found |
| 22:17.52 | lord-carlos | but adduser |
| 22:18.13 | lord-carlos | should i use that? |
| 22:18.37 | lindi- | they are different tools |
| 22:19.20 | max_posedon | really?) |
| 22:19.36 | max_posedon | lord-carlos, yes, I think you should |
| 22:21.42 | lord-carlos | ah nice. Now i finally i can join quakenet |
| 22:21.43 | lord-carlos | thanks |
| 22:22.11 | max_posedon | I have more funny problem with pidgin and shr |
| 22:22.27 | max_posedon | it doesn't display russian on irc, but in jabber does |
| 22:24.23 | cyberalex | max_posedon: there is a way to have missed calls alerts on shr? |
| 22:24.37 | cyberalex | like a popup |
| 22:25.00 | max_posedon | as I know - no |
| 22:25.19 | max_posedon | but I think you can write magic dbus command to emulate it |
| 22:42.04 | hipitihop | well my fresh shr failed the overnight test. it seems it ran out of battery while suspended so also never woke from an alarm ;-) |
| 22:47.49 | *** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD446E0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 22:58.41 | cyberalex | there is a way to change the actual illume keyboard (Default Numbers Terminal ecc) whit a shell command? |
| 22:58.53 | ndnihil | yes |
| 22:59.02 | ndnihil | rm -f /path/to/keyboardfiles |
| 22:59.07 | ndnihil | will change it quite a bit |
| 22:59.18 | cyberalex | mmm |
| 22:59.32 | cyberalex | i can see.. |
| 22:59.50 | cyberalex | i mean switch from one to another |
| 22:59.54 | cyberalex | :) |
| 23:00.06 | ndnihil | that I dont know |
| 23:00.26 | ndnihil | I'd be fine with just the terminal version of the keyboard |
| 23:00.35 | ndnihil | my fingers are too big for the others anyway |
| 23:01.59 | cyberalex | i make 2 keyboards with big keys |
| 23:02.08 | cyberalex | one for standard mode |
| 23:02.13 | cyberalex | and one for landscape |
| 23:03.17 | cyberalex | and i want to switch automatically between them |
| 23:03.41 | ndnihil | probably still to small for these meathammers |
| 23:03.53 | *** join/#openmoko billk (n=billk@203.59.139.142) |
| 23:03.58 | ndnihil | just to give you an idea, if you extend your thumb, and use the FR as a measuring device |
| 23:04.16 | ndnihil | on my hand I get from tip of thumb, to only 1/3 the way into my palm |
| 23:04.19 | ndnihil | with a full FR |
| 23:04.22 | *** join/#openmoko tuyp200_ (i=sr9e@repii.org) |
| 23:04.50 | ndnihil | my palm is just under one FR wide |
| 23:05.05 | ndnihil | a FR if you lop it off at the hole at the bottom |
| 23:05.40 | ndnihil | I'm no andre the giant or anything |
| 23:05.58 | ndnihil | but these hands are too big for touchscreen keyboards |
| 23:06.35 | *** join/#openmoko laen (n=laen@82-197-201-24.dsl.cambrium.nl) |
| 23:09.13 | Dave | LAEN |
| 23:09.46 | Sharwin_F- | ndnihil, this kb may help: http://www.opkg.org/package_142.html |
| 23:09.51 | fredrin | faen? what pass? |
| 23:10.24 | fredrin | today i could almost walk and write sms at the same time :) |
| 23:11.29 | ndnihil | Sharwin_F-: I was looking at that one, figured it would be small'ish |
| 23:11.40 | Sharwin_F- | ndnihil, works better to write sms :) |
| 23:11.45 | Sharwin_F- | I use that one |
| 23:11.46 | ndnihil | the dialer and desktop icons are ok sized |
| 23:12.17 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * recd5f3e79c49 10/fsogsmd/ (5 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: change hash names for commands to proper AT strings instead of class names |
| 23:14.17 | fredrin | ndnihil: i use that |
| 23:14.27 | fredrin | the dictionary don't work though |
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| 23:45.39 | layoutpcb | eleven |
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| 23:55.52 | DocScrutinizer | nine- |
| 23:56.55 | shellevil | e |
