| 00:00.50 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:01.10 | DocScrutinizer | OM is still producing and selling FR |
| 00:01.34 | *** join/#openmoko mrgarlic (n=mrgarlic@pool-70-19-69-81.ny325.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:03.19 | KenYoung | doc|laptop, Well, I doubt project B will be a success. The purchasers of Openmoko phones have been relatively forgiving of the hardware and software problems, because the communitiy was truly excited about the potential of the phone. But if Project B is actually supposed to be a product for non-geeks, I doubt OM can pull it off. They have not demonstrated the ability to produce commercial quality hardware or software. End users won't be placated b |
| 00:03.19 | KenYoung | y an eastern philosophy quote tucked in with the box, or suggestions to have a party to fix the unit, if OM ships defective Project B units. |
| 00:03.20 | fredrin | i like the idea of GTA2.5 |
| 00:04.13 | fredrin | and openmoko could maybe whore out for a phone company? |
| 00:04.18 | doc|laptop | KenYoung: aye, I won't be a guinea pig again. Either it works well enough on shipping (nothing's perfect :/) or I'll be buying nothing :/ |
| 00:04.54 | mwester | rather agrees with KenYoung |
| 00:05.51 | mwester | And Sean's presentation where he listed the Dash in the "mistake" category does not signal an attitude likely to make a "plan b" suddenly be "not" a mistake. |
| 00:05.58 | KenYoung | doc|laptop, I'd actually buy a phone from OM again. I'm a fanboi. I think the Freerunner, dispite its problems, is fun and neat. But I doubt they'll ever get to make another phone. |
| 00:06.33 | mwester | Not to mention that he ascribes part of the blame for the problems Openmoko has to the community for, apparently, failing to deliver on a working software stack for the GTA02. Puleeeeze! |
| 00:06.39 | toggles_w | is a fanboi too, i love the idea |
| 00:07.04 | doc|laptop | KenYoung: as would I, but I'd expect more to be working out of the box. I'm a bit tired of having a useless (and expensive then but much cheaper now) brick |
| 00:07.09 | mwester | expects the fanbois will grow up some day ;-) |
| 00:07.12 | mwester | :p |
| 00:07.16 | toggles_w | lol |
| 00:07.21 | doc|laptop | mwester: got an alternative? :/ |
| 00:07.31 | mwester | doc|laptop: to what? |
| 00:07.35 | toggles_w | hates talking on the phone too, so my neo is a perfect fit |
| 00:07.36 | eolson | mwester, while plan B might be simpler, I agree with your dash analysis. Openmoko switches gears too often. |
| 00:08.14 | KenYoung | mwester, Well, things actually might have worked out better if OM had dedicated their software effort exclusively to the aspects for which access to the NDA documents was required, and had explicitly left the PIM stack to the community. Had that been the plan from day 1, it could have worked. |
| 00:08.33 | KenYoung | Unfortunately, every few months, there was a new plan, it seemed. |
| 00:08.59 | doc|laptop | for what us "fanbois" want :) |
| 00:09.05 | mwester | KenYoung: yep -- if they had stuck to the role of "enablers", with a community liason/manager, I think it would have ended differently. |
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| 00:09.56 | mwester | doc|laptop: No, I know of no alternative -- which is why I am somewhat bitter about what Openmoko and Sean have done -- I see that they have squandered an opportunity after it was almost handed to them on a plate. |
| 00:10.07 | doc|laptop | mwester: :/ |
| 00:10.49 | johnsu01 | well, TBF their lunch kind of got eaten by Google |
| 00:11.21 | johnsu01 | hard to compete with a basically working nearly-as-free subsidized phone |
| 00:11.26 | mwester | I guess that's sort of true, but I still think there's room for a _real_ open phone, in the sense of one that can run standard Linux apps. |
| 00:11.54 | KenYoung | johnsu01, THere was plenty of room for them in the market, I think, even in a post-Android world. |
| 00:11.57 | husku | thinks openness is the product he bought. not a phone. |
| 00:12.03 | d-b | mwester: its called an android |
| 00:12.35 | johnsu01 | d-b: depends what you call really open, I don't call having proprietary software shipped on the phone open or free, and that's even with the dev model |
| 00:12.39 | d-b | i for one respect our new masters. |
| 00:12.56 | d-b | johnsu01: what's proprietary on the android atm ? |
| 00:13.02 | johnsu01 | the point to me is not to be in the situation yet again where I have to buy a device and then wipe it again |
| 00:13.06 | d-b | if it runs debian /me doesn't care |
| 00:13.17 | doc|laptop | husku: yeah, but there'll just be one. No more after the freerunner :/ |
| 00:13.31 | d-b | yay for collectorz item. |
| 00:13.34 | johnsu01 | d-b: all the google apps, the market app, more of the firmware iirc |
| 00:13.57 | d-b | johnsu01: there are blobs in the linux kernel oh noes ! |
| 00:14.03 | johnsu01 | obviously with the tmobile version there is much more |
| 00:14.36 | KenYoung | johnsu01, If you remove all the fart apps, the celebrity quote aps, the walpaer apps and the flashlights from the Android market, Freerunners might actually have more apps than Andriod. |
| 00:14.36 | husku | doc|laptop: i know. but, my point was this: i bought open phone and that way i support the idea of openness in general. in future (from any maker) i'll be using my money to buy open stuff (even if its partly shit). |
| 00:14.38 | johnsu01 | d-b: I do care about that, yes |
| 00:14.45 | d-b | johnsu01: go use openbsd then |
| 00:15.02 | johnsu01 | d-b: I'd rather help get the linux kernel free, which with linux-libre is making some progress |
| 00:15.25 | d-b | johnsu01: 'help'. |
| 00:15.42 | doc|laptop | husku: *nod* |
| 00:16.01 | johnsu01 | d-b: I understand if you don't care as much about it, but no need to disparage those who do I don't think, it's at least an interesting project to make as much of the functionality as free as possible |
| 00:16.26 | d-b | johnsu01: my point is that whats the diff between helping on android and helping in the linux kernel |
| 00:16.29 | johnsu01 | and my primary concern with the G1 is the actual userspace application software and DRM |
| 00:17.07 | johnsu01 | KenYoung: for sure, and I'm hoping to have a buzz-fixed FR on Monday :) |
| 00:17.26 | d-b | johnsu01: i agree openmoko is cool. but lacked a lot in the v2 like graphics and people to actually sit down from the community and write ONE good gui and ONE good framework. fso is good sure. but wherez the gui ? |
| 00:17.37 | d-b | get gui -> win |
| 00:17.45 | johnsu01 | d-b: the diff is that I personally don't want to contribute to a platform that permits my contributions to be licensed under proprietary licenses |
| 00:18.02 | johnsu01 | d-b: which strikes me as a particularly bad idea in the phone world |
| 00:18.07 | d-b | johnsu01: the linux kernel is abused enough as it is. |
| 00:18.14 | johnsu01 | d-b: I fully agree with all of that |
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| 00:19.04 | d-b | johnsu01: its nearly impossible to approach vendors like dlink and go look you have possible gpl viol, got an answer ? |
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| 00:19.18 | johnsu01 | d-b: well, we're suing cisco right now, so sure |
| 00:19.30 | d-b | johnsu01: isn't that a different issue? |
| 00:19.40 | johnsu01 | and gpl-violations won against dlink, no? |
| 00:19.48 | johnsu01 | verizon settled |
| 00:19.54 | johnsu01 | against SFLC |
| 00:20.00 | d-b | johnsu01: no. there are still products in the market NO SOURCE available |
| 00:20.01 | *** join/#openmoko SM2k (n=stu@cpe-071-070-211-081.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:20.12 | d-b | i can point out a number from dlink. |
| 00:20.25 | johnsu01 | d-b: I'm not saying there aren't a lot of violations out there, and if you know ones that involve FSF copyrighted software then you should let us know :) |
| 00:20.52 | johnsu01 | but the point is I don't want to contribute as much to a platform that explicitly markets itself based on the ability of people to add proprietary extensions and ship it binary-only |
| 00:21.37 | d-b | johnsu01: i know you want linux to win vs the other oses. so let me put it this way, joe blogs doesn't care. |
| 00:22.08 | d-b | smarty panty joe uses apple, normal joe uses windowz |
| 00:22.16 | johnsu01 | d-b: I'm finding that that's changing, I know very many people who have complained about DRM and Vista and other facets of proprietary software, and they are looking for alternatives |
| 00:22.36 | d-b | johnsu01: they complain, but they don't do anything about it. |
| 00:22.38 | johnsu01 | it's to the point where acquaintances have gone and purchased GNU/Linux machines without me ever saying anything to them |
| 00:22.57 | d-b | johnsu01: mm interesting haven't seen that over drm. |
| 00:23.07 | johnsu01 | I know a number of people who bought those Dell machines, and eee pcs |
| 00:23.34 | d-b | i see people who buy those eee's too cuz they hate microsoft and others because it was cheap. they don't know its linux maybe maybe they do. |
| 00:23.36 | johnsu01 | it's hard for people to do something about it, and that's a disincentive, but as it gets a bit easier more and more people find it worthwhile to care |
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| 00:23.58 | johnsu01 | it's a mix I'm sure |
| 00:24.11 | *** join/#openmoko zeroedout (i=zeroedou@128.189.176.237) |
| 00:24.13 | johnsu01 | but people really are tired of being yelled at about activating things IME |
| 00:24.20 | d-b | johnsu01: i love that the eee's have an antivirus scanner |
| 00:24.27 | husku | johnsu01: any info on this? (http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnsu01/3169121053/) |
| 00:24.36 | d-b | loled so hard when it start scanning EVERY thing not just /home |
| 00:24.58 | johnsu01 | d-b: hah, well, people think there's something wrong if there isn't a virus scanner that is making their machine run like crap I guess :) |
| 00:25.00 | d-b | its clam av |
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| 00:25.43 | johnsu01 | husku: heh, http://wjsullivan.net/Pepperoni Pizza Soup.html |
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| 00:26.55 | husku | johnsu01: vegan pepperoni? :) |
| 00:27.23 | johnsu01 | and that's on topic because I used my FR in the kitchen with the recipe on the screen :) |
| 00:27.47 | johnsu01 | husku: yeah, that brand is only so-so, I'd rather find a different way |
| 00:28.26 | sirkha_top | umm, article on slashdot says that hardware development is no more, but i didn't see anything on openmoko.com or the wiki... |
| 00:28.28 | doc|laptop | I feel dirty |
| 00:28.38 | husku | doc|laptop: shower, perhaps? |
| 00:28.39 | doc|laptop | rogers are selling samsung blackjacks for $150 |
| 00:28.46 | doc|laptop | husku: perhaps :( |
| 00:28.52 | doc|laptop | I was considering getting one |
| 00:29.26 | husku | johnsu01: ok, i was having troubles with the concept of vegan pepperoni, and the pictures made it look like real pepperoni :) |
| 00:30.01 | husku | doc|laptop: you should, any decent human inhabitat has showering facilities :p |
| 00:30.14 | doc|laptop | brb |
| 00:30.35 | SeligArkin | husku: or a nearby lake |
| 00:30.36 | zeroedout | sirkha_top: On the ml it was sated that gta03 is essentially no more, they're working on another project, and alot of staff is gone to devel has been reduced |
| 00:31.19 | Dave | Selig! |
| 00:31.22 | SeligArkin | Dave! |
| 00:31.27 | KenYoung | sirkha_top, There's some info on the "planet" page of openmoko.org too. |
| 00:31.31 | fredrin | what about gta2.5 |
| 00:31.38 | sirkha_top | ok, thanks, i'll look at that |
| 00:32.31 | SM2k | So... will the gta02 still be mass produced? |
| 00:33.03 | KenYoung | fredrin, gta2.5 seems VERY unlikely. They've as much as said OM is out of the phone market for a while. |
| 00:33.31 | SeligArkin | eep |
| 00:34.24 | SeligArkin | How are yo today, Dave? |
| 00:35.28 | KenYoung | Dave, I guess instead of a buzz-fix "party", we should now organize a buzz-fix "wake". |
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| 00:41.08 | Dave | Ken :) |
| 00:41.16 | Dave | Selig, yeah alright |
| 00:41.22 | Dave | My soldering job et al went well |
| 00:41.35 | *** join/#openmoko mrgarlic (n=mrgarlic@pool-70-19-69-81.ny325.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:41.36 | Dave | about to stress test the wattage though, just to make sure :p |
| 00:41.42 | SeligArkin | heh |
| 00:41.56 | Dave | The real test is ALWAYS whether it melts and/or explodes me after the repair is made ;D |
| 00:42.05 | DocScrutinizer | SM2k: yes |
| 00:42.06 | Dave | So if you don't hear back... that's probably what happened |
| 00:42.16 | SeligArkin | eep |
| 00:42.20 | SeligArkin | try not to explode |
| 00:42.30 | Dave | yeah |
| 00:42.34 | Dave | admit it, you'd miss me :P |
| 00:42.48 | Dave | one sec, before I test I was captivated by something |
| 00:42.59 | SeligArkin | hehe |
| 00:43.00 | Dave | I'm performing a frankenstein mod on a supermulti drive |
| 00:43.29 | SM2k | DocScrutinizer: glad to hear! |
| 00:44.06 | DocScrutinizer | afaik there are "just enough" GTA02 on stock waiting to ship |
| 00:44.34 | SM2k | DocScrutinizer: "just enough" that the manufacturer is willing to make more? :-) |
| 00:44.55 | SM2k | or "just enough" to meet current demand? |
| 00:45.57 | DocScrutinizer | I think stock will last for some time, then OM might ramp up A7 MP again |
| 00:45.58 | fredrin_ | a7 mp? |
| 00:45.58 | SM2k | that's fair. thanks for the info |
| 00:45.58 | DocScrutinizer | np |
| 00:46.02 | doc|laptop | husku: hehehe |
| 00:56.14 | *** join/#openmoko FFForever2 (n=chris@cpe-98-154-165-249.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 00:56.29 | FFForever2 | is there any way to run open moko on the htc dream? |
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| 01:19.25 | doc|laptop | you know what sucks? |
| 01:19.28 | doc|laptop | the iphone won :( |
| 01:19.40 | FFForever2 | won what? |
| 01:20.17 | doc|laptop | just in general :/ |
| 01:20.31 | FFForever2 | yeah, anyways can i run open moko on the htc dream? |
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| 01:26.33 | raster | doc|laptop: who says the game is over? |
| 01:27.03 | DocScrutinizer | not for me anyways |
| 01:27.46 | doc|laptop | raster: not much reason to think otherwise right now |
| 01:28.18 | DocScrutinizer | though honestly gta02 never was meant to compete against iphone |
| 01:28.31 | doc|laptop | sure, but it was better than nothing |
| 01:28.36 | Dave | :) |
| 01:29.02 | doc|laptop | I saw it as a stepping stone for them to make some cash to fund the next phone, but it looks (at least right now) like that's not likely |
| 01:29.25 | doc|laptop | obviously most of us don't know what b product is |
| 01:29.43 | FFForever2 | so i cant??? |
| 01:30.13 | doc|laptop | FFForever2: if no one has replied it's possibly because no one awake right now knows. Check wiki.openmoko.org. |
| 01:32.39 | raster | doc|laptop: the game.. is NOT over |
| 01:32.46 | raster | opemoko gave up |
| 01:32.51 | raster | that doesnt mean the game is over |
| 01:33.12 | Dave | rasterman! |
| 01:33.15 | raster | if u havent noticed the dearth of ex-om and interested parties all babbling about how to do this now? |
| 01:33.15 | raster | :) |
| 01:33.19 | raster | Dave: moo! |
| 01:33.19 | Dave | Tell that to the pandora ;) |
| 01:33.23 | raster | Dave: i owe you some docs |
| 01:33.24 | Dave | teehee |
| 01:33.26 | doc|laptop | raster: sure, but in this economy how many people do you expect will take up the ball? :/ |
| 01:33.28 | Dave | Yes please. |
| 01:33.30 | Dave | At your leisure |
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| 01:33.33 | raster | Dave: i have swapped emails with craig |
| 01:33.38 | Dave | ah |
| 01:33.41 | Dave | :) |
| 01:33.42 | raster | but it seems for now he was interested in "i can sell you pandora borads" |
| 01:33.44 | raster | whihc isnt much use |
| 01:33.46 | raster | at all |
| 01:33.50 | Dave | meh |
| 01:33.50 | Dave | yeah |
| 01:34.04 | doc|laptop | raster: will any of them be willing/capable of getting as open, or ideally even more open, access to good, up-to-date hardware than OM couldn't? :/ |
| 01:34.14 | doc|laptop | *that |
| 01:35.28 | doc|laptop | would love to see that happen of course |
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| 01:36.00 | raster | doc|laptop: its possible. |
| 01:36.12 | raster | eg - openpandora have gotten a sparkling top-of-the-line cpu |
| 01:36.18 | slaxxin | what would be wrong with just electronics updates to the same phone desigh |
| 01:36.18 | raster | and their production run is 3000 units |
| 01:36.24 | raster | thats < 1/3rd what om made of the gta02 |
| 01:36.34 | raster | it is possible to do |
| 01:36.39 | doc|laptop | raster: and decent GSM hardware? |
| 01:36.40 | raster | you may have to accept a high cost though |
| 01:36.51 | raster | doc|laptop: possible. but tont expect it to be cheap |
| 01:36.54 | doc|laptop | exactly |
| 01:37.03 | raster | as i said |
| 01:37.05 | raster | its not over |
| 01:37.11 | raster | you just will need to accept to pay more |
| 01:37.14 | SeligArkin | money is holding back development, thats my opinion. |
| 01:37.53 | DocScrutinizer | SeligArkin: NO money does ;-) |
| 01:39.30 | SeligArkin | likes to beleive humanity would be much farther than it is now if money wasn't such a good motivator, and people worked for the common good rather than finantial gain |
| 01:39.32 | DocScrutinizer | even not development, but mainly MP |
| 01:39.49 | raster | SeligArkin: money.. or lack thereof? |
| 01:39.52 | DocScrutinizer | MEEH |
| 01:40.41 | fredrin | money == time |
| 01:41.01 | SeligArkin | shrugs and wanders off |
| 01:41.21 | eolson | fredrin, not always, sometimes money == power (and someone else's time) |
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| 01:42.05 | shellevil | dash |
| 01:42.07 | fredrin | eolson: true, with money you can buy other peoples time, and have power over them |
| 01:42.48 | Dave | :) |
| 01:43.04 | fredrin | money is i someway compressed time :) |
| 01:43.12 | eolson | fredrin, yeah, unfortunately, a lot of times that's not so good for the other people. :/ |
| 01:44.44 | fredrin | but ultimately you decide what to do with your money/time unless your a slave or in prison |
| 01:44.46 | fredrin | :) |
| 01:45.33 | slaxxin | i wonder if hans reiser is wrighting code |
| 01:45.42 | fredrin | lol |
| 01:45.55 | mwester | reiser is too busy just staying alive. |
| 01:45.57 | slaxxin | -g |
| 01:46.11 | fredrin | but he can't check the code in for like 50 years to git or svn |
| 01:46.35 | raster | allowing him to write code would make prison to much fun |
| 01:46.39 | raster | prison is meant to punsih |
| 01:46.46 | mwester | is a fan of "hard labor" |
| 01:46.47 | slaxxin | maybe he can smuggle the code |
| 01:46.52 | Dave | :D |
| 01:46.53 | mwester | and pink underwear. |
| 01:46.55 | Dave | haha |
| 01:47.03 | raster | not as a holiday resort for coders to get infinite free time to hack |
| 01:47.04 | raster | :) |
| 01:47.14 | Dave | CRUISE! |
| 01:47.36 | mwester | is a fan of Sheriff Joe. |
| 01:47.52 | eolson | fredrin, re: "you decide what to do with your money/time" -- maybe for us, and "technically" for all people, but that's not so true if you don't have basic things and they are only dangerous jobs available. |
| 01:47.54 | mwester | http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/ |
| 01:47.55 | DocScrutinizer | oops, your soap ;-) |
| 01:48.07 | raster | Dave: hmm. actually give me some time |
| 01:48.12 | raster | i really should draw a mockup design |
| 01:48.31 | eolson | I pretty much agree with SeligArkin |
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| 01:51.09 | fredrin | reiser could use http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt maybe :D |
| 01:52.03 | doc|laptop | SeligArkin: money means nothing on its own. It's just a proxy for barter. |
| 01:52.31 | doc|laptop | SeligArkin: remove money from the equation and you just kill off what it is that makes demand measurable |
| 01:52.38 | fredrin | doc|laptop: true |
| 01:52.55 | fredrin | a from of comunication tool to make agreements |
| 01:54.01 | fredrin | but the current centralized global money System is b0rked, make a distributed one and people on the earth would benefit. |
| 01:54.03 | mwester | finds such a succinct summation refreshing, |
| 01:54.06 | eolson | doc|laptop, it's more about selfishness than money per se |
| 01:54.10 | doc|laptop | fredrin: that's a contract |
| 01:54.22 | doc|laptop | fredrin: money is just what's used to settle the contract :) |
| 01:54.25 | fredrin | it's actualy a paradox that there 'is not enough money' |
| 01:54.46 | fredrin | eolson: de design of the monetarysystem is to flow in to the center |
| 01:54.56 | fredrin | banks and sentral banks |
| 01:54.58 | doc|laptop | fredrin: not at all, the world has limited resources (time and materials). Unlimited money would lead to unlimited prices. |
| 01:55.17 | doc|laptop | fredrin: that's not because of markets but because of politics. |
| 01:55.26 | doc|laptop | fredrin: the markets want to break out of that but the politicians prevent it |
| 01:55.28 | mwester | Ok, you've both demonstrated that you are better qualified to fix the US economy than Obama and Geitner. : p :D |
| 01:55.36 | doc|laptop | sweet |
| 01:55.43 | doc|laptop | I'd demand their job but fuck that shit. |
| 01:55.44 | fredrin | nah, the current system is about 300 years old, started by the goldsmiths |
| 01:55.44 | doc|laptop | :) |
| 01:55.56 | doc|laptop | does not want to have to play that deck of cards |
| 01:56.02 | doc|laptop | fredrin: nope, not at all |
| 01:56.19 | mwester | doc|laptop: I think that's the general problem -- the people that CAN do the job don't want anything to do with it. |
| 01:56.32 | mwester | Which leaves the lawyers. |
| 01:56.41 | doc|laptop | fredrin: the current system is a bastardised version of the system of old, but the market limits have been taken off and now everything's propped up on fake money (and therefore happy thoughts) |
| 01:57.26 | fredrin | doc|laptop: i can agree with that more or less |
| 01:57.44 | eolson | doc|laptop, so are you in favor of stock markets? |
| 01:58.08 | doc|laptop | fredrin: the only reason that happened is because politicians made it law that that was how it must work. "You will use X currency for taxes and you must accept it for payment of debts" which basically gives them a monopoly over the currency. |
| 01:58.12 | doc|laptop | eolson: absolutely |
| 01:58.24 | DocScrutinizer | sure Bayer (for aspirin) |
| 01:59.00 | doc|laptop | eolson: but also of proper deregulation of them. The SEC does a terrible job, but it's thought that they can regulate them properly. They can't and they have enough power (via the government) to try to fix things. |
| 01:59.17 | doc|laptop | but in "fixing" things they're screwing them up even worse |
| 01:59.31 | eolson | doc|laptop, ah yes, deregulation is the key! /sarcasm |
| 01:59.33 | husku | hehe. like it would matter what you think :) |
| 01:59.38 | fredrin | doc|laptop: true, but the evil thing is that it's illegal to make a competing system. |
| 01:59.41 | doc|laptop | they (with the treasury, fed etc) are keeping bad businesses alive |
| 02:00.01 | doc|laptop | eolson: erm, the government is the only thing keeping most of these assholes in jobs |
| 02:00.14 | fredrin | stock market is more a riged game |
| 02:00.17 | fredrin | like a casino |
| 02:00.20 | Dave | :D |
| 02:00.23 | doc|laptop | eolson: the financial industry is the most regulated industry existence. You still think regulation works? |
| 02:00.36 | fredrin | the house wins, but the consept of stocks is not stupid |
| 02:00.41 | doc|laptop | eolson: look into history and you'll see that there was more competition before the regulation we have now |
| 02:00.57 | eolson | doc|laptop, I'm going with: finance industry is a casino |
| 02:01.01 | doc|laptop | eolson: and what's more, small banks were growing their market share at the expense of bigger ones |
| 02:01.06 | eolson | doc|laptop, who has the money is in charge |
| 02:01.15 | doc|laptop | eolson: this one is, but it's that because the government is pulling the strings |
| 02:01.28 | fredrin | and bankers |
| 02:01.35 | fredrin | that pulls governments |
| 02:01.36 | eolson | doc|laptop, nope, money will be in charge if you don't have regulations too. |
| 02:01.58 | *** part/#openmoko FFForever2 (n=chris@cpe-98-154-165-249.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 02:02.11 | doc|laptop | eolson: they (the government) recently suspended mark to market, which means the bankers can price things at what they think they should be worth rather than what they're actually worth. So all you'll see now is better results based on phoney numbers. |
| 02:02.31 | doc|laptop | eolson: yeah, but without the regulations the banks don't get bailouts |
| 02:02.51 | doc|laptop | eolson: they have to stand on their own two feet. Bad banks go bust, good ones get their business. |
| 02:02.52 | fredrin | om should get a bailout lol |
| 02:03.00 | fredrin | just 10% of a AIG bonus |
| 02:03.31 | Dave | :p |
| 02:03.32 | Dave | wtf |
| 02:03.35 | eolson | doc|laptop, it's not one or the other --> bailouts or regulation. I agree, banks should have to stand up by themselves. The problem now is they're so big, they're linked to the economy |
| 02:03.36 | Dave | OM BAILOUT? |
| 02:03.45 | doc|laptop | eolson: sure, but why is that? |
| 02:04.07 | doc|laptop | eolson: what other business is so important that if it fails the entire economy of countries can fall apart? Why is that? |
| 02:04.08 | eolson | doc|laptop, because money controls the government |
| 02:04.09 | fredrin | lol too big to fail |
| 02:04.21 | doc|laptop | eolson: nope, because they work on leverage. legally mandated leverage. |
| 02:04.24 | fredrin | that was the logic of dinosaurus too |
| 02:04.48 | KenYoung | I;m eating more candy. I'll be too big to fail soon. |
| 02:05.03 | eolson | one good thing, bad economy --> good for open source :) |
| 02:05.08 | DocScrutinizer | wtf?! *I* should get a bailout |
| 02:05.19 | doc|laptop | no one should get a bailout |
| 02:05.24 | doc|laptop | stand on your own two feet :) |
| 02:05.28 | doc|laptop | stop spending my money |
| 02:05.47 | doc|laptop | bad businesses must fail, otherwise it's just wasted money |
| 02:05.56 | doc|laptop | realises where he's saying that :) |
| 02:06.12 | rooly1 | okay |
| 02:06.14 | *** join/#openmoko tessier (n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com) |
| 02:06.18 | tessier | So...WTF? :P |
| 02:06.25 | Dave | rooly :D |
| 02:06.28 | Dave | Heh, Ken :P |
| 02:06.39 | rooly1 | wtf |
| 02:06.39 | fredrin | true, the governments should just do nothing and let things implode by it self, but of course governemnts always must do somethings |
| 02:06.43 | DocScrutinizer | a bad business??? :) |
| 02:06.53 | rooly1 | i sorta just found out about this discontinuation thing |
| 02:07.00 | rooly1 | and like i said |
| 02:07.00 | rooly1 | wtf |
| 02:07.01 | doc|laptop | fredrin: they've spent trillions of your money and your kids money, nothing has changed. |
| 02:07.09 | slaxxin | i say let em fry |
| 02:07.23 | doc|laptop | fredrin: things are not improving, in fact, they're just devaluing savings of those who didn't get into debt. It's all a scam. :( |
| 02:07.25 | fredrin | doc|laptop: the governemnt of norway don't get my money |
| 02:07.43 | doc|laptop | fredrin: if you have savings they do. Look up the "inflation tax" |
| 02:07.47 | KenYoung | doc|laptop, Look on the bright side. By the end of the Obama administration, we'll all be millionaires. |
| 02:07.55 | rooly1 | ... |
| 02:07.57 | doc|laptop | KenYoung: :D |
| 02:07.58 | *** join/#openmoko DrVino (n=Elive_us@201.255.166.215) |
| 02:08.04 | eolson | doc|laptop, actually, i think they're reducing the budget deficiet -- but I don't like big company bailouts either |
| 02:08.09 | doc|laptop | KenYoung: zimbabwe stylee! |
| 02:08.18 | KenYoung | You betcha |
| 02:08.21 | doc|laptop | eolson: hahahaahahah, and if you believe that I've got a bridge for sale |
| 02:08.25 | doc|laptop | ;) |
| 02:08.40 | tessier | I bought an OLPC laptop and a Freerunner wanting to support the cause. I guess I've gambled and lost on both. |
| 02:08.41 | Dave | :P |
| 02:08.58 | doc|laptop | tessier: I'm beginning to think I'm the kiss of death for stuff :) |
| 02:09.05 | doc|laptop | should buy a WM6 phone |
| 02:09.49 | DocScrutinizer | doc|laptop: have a lot of fun with it! XD |
| 02:10.03 | doc|laptop | :( |
| 02:10.13 | Dave | :( |
| 02:11.32 | mjr | the aux button should do something on the om2008, yes? |
| 02:11.32 | DocScrutinizer | wm6 makes me want to use my microwave ;-) |
| 02:11.38 | doc|laptop | DocScrutinizer: haha |
| 02:11.45 | Dave | :D |
| 02:11.48 | Dave | bBzzzzzzzzzzzzzzap |
| 02:11.54 | Dave | *arc* *arc* *sizzle* |
| 02:12.02 | doc|laptop | DocScrutinizer: there are samsung blackjacks here for 149. I'm kinda tempted. At least those would work :( |
| 02:12.04 | Dave | sounds much like my laptop last week :D |
| 02:12.22 | Dave | Btw, my fix seems to have gone over without a hitch :D |
| 02:12.23 | fredrin | no, beer time |
| 02:12.25 | eolson | doc|laptop, what's wronger with your freerunner? |
| 02:12.55 | doc|laptop | eolson: even with shr it's far from ideal. I mean, I use my phone mostly for texts, but the messaging app doesn't even match numbers against my contacts. |
| 02:13.10 | slaxxin | what no frying? |
| 02:13.25 | doc|laptop | eolson: hopefully things will improve with the upcoming release |
| 02:13.35 | doc|laptop | but apparently that's not high on their list :/ |
| 02:13.46 | eolson | doc|laptop, ok, I don't sms much and I'm using FSO until SHR is released, so I can't help you much there. |
| 02:13.58 | *** join/#openmoko XorA (n=XorA@94-193-93-235.zone7.bethere.co.uk) |
| 02:14.03 | slaxxin | i have seen a lot of misdirection |
| 02:14.13 | doc|laptop | slaxxin: hmm? |
| 02:14.18 | rooly | sighs |
| 02:14.46 | Dave | pats rooly on the back |
| 02:14.48 | fredrin | om lacks a dictator |
| 02:14.48 | DocScrutinizer | joerg sighs too |
| 02:14.52 | Dave | there, there... man |
| 02:14.56 | fredrin | Dave: step up to the job |
| 02:14.58 | slaxxin | saying 1 thing then doing the something completely different |
| 02:14.59 | doc|laptop | DocScrutinizer: pm? |
| 02:15.19 | DocScrutinizer | huh? joerg@om? |
| 02:15.21 | XorA | guessed the topic of conversation from the /. ing :-) |
| 02:16.01 | doc|laptop | actually, nevermind |
| 02:16.05 | rooly | read it, went to the blogs, and figured, "eh, what the hell" |
| 02:16.26 | rooly | so |
| 02:16.32 | rooly | i'll be going to bed soon |
| 02:16.40 | rooly | because nobody is onat all |
| 02:17.08 | rooly | and by nobody i of course mean the people i want to talk to |
| 02:17.18 | DocScrutinizer | rooly: :)) |
| 02:17.36 | DocScrutinizer | bah |
| 02:17.46 | XorA | hey DocScrutinizer did you never finish that reading? |
| 02:17.59 | rooly | has anyone tested qtei? |
| 02:18.03 | DocScrutinizer | XorA: reading? |
| 02:18.12 | XorA | Scrutinizing |
| 02:18.26 | DocScrutinizer | nope, it's a tick |
| 02:18.46 | rooly | so nobody |
| 02:18.56 | DocScrutinizer | others read books, me reads schem |
| 02:20.51 | DocScrutinizer | good schem or datasheet I even might read again after some time, for the mere fun, despite knowing them by heart ;-) |
| 02:25.20 | DocScrutinizer | but sometimes I'm playing pinball for leisure |
| 02:25.58 | DocScrutinizer | or read schem of the pinball machine ;D |
| 02:26.45 | SeligArkin | wanders back in |
| 02:27.07 | Dave | SELIG |
| 02:27.14 | SeligArkin | DAVE |
| 02:27.20 | Dave | bombards Seligarkin with malfunctioning freerunners |
| 02:27.25 | SeligArkin | eep |
| 02:28.58 | Dave | :D |
| 02:29.39 | SeligArkin | counters with... defective software! |
| 02:29.45 | Dave | AAAAAAAAAH :D |
| 02:29.47 | *** part/#openmoko DrVino (n=Elive_us@201.255.166.215) |
| 02:29.47 | Dave | kinky :p |
| 02:29.52 | SeligArkin | :p |
| 02:30.07 | SeligArkin | you look at a wall and think 'kinky' don't you? :P |
| 02:30.15 | Dave | Nah |
| 02:30.20 | eolson | you mean mirror |
| 02:30.21 | Dave | maybe your basement lair though ;p |
| 02:30.30 | *** join/#openmoko pcfe` (n=pcfe@a88-115-18-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 02:30.43 | SeligArkin | I have a basement lair? |
| 02:31.05 | SeligArkin | Oh well I have a small section of basement with lots of electronic stuff I got, but thats hardly kinky |
| 02:31.22 | Dave | :] |
| 02:31.25 | Dave | says you :p |
| 02:31.44 | SeligArkin | heh |
| 02:32.00 | DocScrutinizer | triggers the big gdb |
| 02:33.25 | SeligArkin | ponders |
| 02:33.27 | DocScrutinizer | and an EMP to intercept stray FR |
| 02:33.31 | *** join/#openmoko GastrocNemius (n=bergelin@c80-216-131-228.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 02:33.34 | Dave | fuck my freerunner needs more memory |
| 02:33.40 | SeligArkin | MOAr MEMOrY! |
| 02:33.47 | Dave | something like that, yeah |
| 02:33.58 | doc|laptop | and a faster proc :) |
| 02:33.58 | rooly | question marks to dave |
| 02:34.05 | doc|laptop | and a better gsm chip :) |
| 02:34.10 | SeligArkin | That reminds me |
| 02:34.13 | doc|laptop | unhappy |
| 02:34.16 | *** join/#openmoko bergelin (n=bergelin@c80-216-131-228.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 02:34.34 | DocScrutinizer | fsck gsm chip. laser uplink |
| 02:34.43 | *** join/#openmoko phosphoricx (n=fmaker@c-98-208-21-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:34.45 | SeligArkin | questioning universe for giving her this complex mind |
| 02:34.46 | doc|laptop | does that need line of sight? :) |
| 02:35.14 | rooly | slaps SeligArkin |
| 02:35.17 | rooly | go get me a beer |
| 02:35.25 | DocScrutinizer | doc|laptop: has enough power - always line of sight ;P |
| 02:35.29 | SeligArkin | stabs rooly with a conceiled knife |
| 02:35.43 | doc|laptop | DocScrutinizer: haha |
| 02:35.48 | rooly | dodges like jesus |
| 02:35.48 | doc|laptop | touche |
| 02:35.53 | doc|laptop | haha |
| 02:36.44 | SeligArkin | I hope there isn't a 'God' Because if there is, he is evil. >:( |
| 02:37.29 | rooly | why would 'god' be evil? |
| 02:37.39 | KenYoung | God isn't dead. He's just out of ammo. |
| 02:38.02 | rooly | gets a flash of the 'reload-reload' screen on area51 arcade games |
| 02:38.07 | SeligArkin | for giving me this confusing mind, I am not in the mood to explain what it is to random people today. :P |
| 02:38.09 | Dave | :D |
| 02:38.25 | rooly | okay |
| 02:38.26 | Dave | reload reload! |
| 02:38.27 | rooly | how about unrooly people |
| 02:38.34 | Dave | heh heh |
| 02:38.37 | Dave | that's what I always say ;) |
| 02:39.02 | SeligArkin | flails at the 'vi' implementation SHR has |
| 02:39.02 | DocScrutinizer | KenYoung: lol |
| 02:39.05 | rooly | somebody recently, chocks i think, came up with a crap load of good ones |
| 02:39.08 | doc|laptop | rooly: god is the one who wiped out most of the population with a giant flood. You think he's not evil? :) |
| 02:39.49 | rooly | what makes human death particularly evil? |
| 02:39.53 | rooly | i mean, we die anyway |
| 02:40.03 | rooly | it just happened to streamline the process |
| 02:40.10 | rooly | and by stream i really mean ocean |
| 02:40.24 | Dave | :D |
| 02:40.27 | SeligArkin | rooly: out of curiosity, what is your view on murder, then? :P |
| 02:40.43 | SeligArkin | if it's alright for god to do it, I can do it, too, can't I? |
| 02:40.51 | doc|laptop | rooly: haha |
| 02:40.57 | rooly | my personal opinion? i find murder most distasteful |
| 02:41.01 | rooly | i'm just presenting counterpoints |
| 02:41.04 | rooly | its what i do |
| 02:41.06 | doc|laptop | not to mention, impolite |
| 02:41.06 | SeligArkin | ah |
| 02:41.20 | rooly | but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do |
| 02:41.35 | SeligArkin | flails some more at the SHR image |
| 02:41.43 | SeligArkin | striped down utilitys == FAIL |
| 02:41.46 | rooly | i murdered a few billion microbes recently |
| 02:42.19 | DocScrutinizer | when god built this testset he introduced elements of local negative entropy. he had been warned it would end like this |
| 02:42.21 | doc|laptop | rooly: we don't really need to know what you do when you close your bedroom curtains |
| 02:43.42 | *** join/#openmoko rooly1 (n=CAC@12.151.197.98) |
| 02:43.50 | rooly1 | yeah... |
| 02:44.22 | rooly | so what were we talking about before i was so rudely interupted by a disconnect? |
| 02:44.43 | SeligArkin | how you killed a few billion babys recently |
| 02:44.48 | doc|laptop | potential babies |
| 02:44.58 | SeligArkin | sorry, potiental babys |
| 02:45.01 | doc|laptop | :) |
| 02:45.04 | rooly | microbes |
| 02:45.07 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@212-183-117-197.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 02:45.28 | Dave | Hey Selig, want to come over tomorrow, get some freerunner action going? :P |
| 02:45.34 | Dave | We'll terrorize the neighborhood :p |
| 02:45.40 | rooly | ooo...bow chicka bow-wow |
| 02:45.43 | rooly | hmm |
| 02:45.46 | Dave | hah |
| 02:45.47 | rooly | has an idea |
| 02:45.48 | doc|laptop | hahaha |
| 02:45.50 | Dave | uh oh |
| 02:45.51 | SeligArkin | Dave: heh |
| 02:45.53 | Dave | :D |
| 02:46.01 | rooly | cantenna for the FR |
| 02:46.11 | Dave | I have a large antenna |
| 02:46.18 | Dave | but yeah rooly, that's pretty badass |
| 02:46.22 | rooly | ... |
| 02:46.22 | rooly | bow chicka bow-wow? |
| 02:46.27 | Dave | HAHAHAHAHA |
| 02:46.29 | Dave | oh gawd :P |
| 02:46.30 | rooly | fix in merely split seconds |
| 02:46.32 | SeligArkin | It's true, I have seen it! |
| 02:46.36 | Dave | :O |
| 02:46.36 | rooly | !? |
| 02:46.40 | SeligArkin | :O |
| 02:46.41 | Dave | sssssssh! |
| 02:46.49 | rooly | no, its just sh |
| 02:46.54 | rooly | and in cygwin, sh.exe |
| 02:47.10 | SeligArkin | ... I should replace sh with a shell script |
| 02:47.10 | DocScrutinizer | hualp |
| 02:47.17 | *** join/#openmoko d-b_ (n=alias@124-168-165-111.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:47.25 | DocScrutinizer | hehehehehe |
| 02:47.29 | SeligArkin | I wonder how bad that would break stuff |
| 02:47.53 | rooly | very very much |
| 02:47.58 | rooly | since sh has specific formatting |
| 02:48.06 | rooly | each terminal has specific formatting |
| 02:48.11 | DocScrutinizer | like a dd if=/dev/null of=/dev/sda ? |
| 02:48.14 | rooly | 'duhs' but still |
| 02:48.31 | SeligArkin | I know that replaceing cat with a shell script breaks ubuntu's login. >.> |
| 02:48.40 | SeligArkin | and it breaks uname also, I think |
| 02:48.43 | rooly | orly? |
| 02:48.49 | SeligArkin | yes |
| 02:48.52 | rooly | neato |
| 02:49.00 | DocScrutinizer | replacing cat by mouse even worse |
| 02:49.01 | doc|laptop | stabs canadian telcos |
| 02:49.13 | rooly | what if i replace cat with a shell script that calls catto which is simply cat renamed |
| 02:49.13 | SeligArkin | I replaced it with a shell script consisting of 'echo Meow' |
| 02:49.19 | Dave | ;D |
| 02:49.26 | mjr | mmh, what to use on a gta01 that'd somewhat work as a phone? |
| 02:49.35 | doc|laptop | $25+$6.95 "access fee" for 500mb |
| 02:49.40 | Dave | ouch! |
| 02:49.47 | Dave | I was just about to ask, doc :) |
| 02:50.02 | SeligArkin | it went to console login, with 'Meow' as the computer name, iirc |
| 02:50.06 | Dave | I was talking with someone else here the other night about data rates and canuck carriers :] |
| 02:50.06 | rooly | got into a 'fight' with his dramatic roomate today |
| 02:50.13 | Dave | uh oh ¬_¬ |
| 02:50.22 | doc|laptop | Dave: stupid canadian regulators :( |
| 02:50.27 | SeligArkin | rooly: did you catch them wearing your makeup again? |
| 02:50.37 | doc|laptop | "let's limit competition! yey!" |
| 02:50.46 | rooly | little bitch got upset that i forgot an empty plate and plastic bottle on the coffee table and didn't pick it up before he got back from work |
| 02:50.53 | rooly | which was about 2 hours before me |
| 02:50.58 | rooly | so he went a threw it in my room |
| 02:51.24 | Dave | :\ |
| 02:51.24 | rooly | so i went and told him, "you really didn't have to do that, you know." |
| 02:51.29 | rooly | calmly, simply |
| 02:51.34 | Dave | hey, it's the canadian way! ;D |
| 02:51.37 | rooly | he instantly got definsive and accusing |
| 02:51.51 | rooly | so i responded, "okay, we'll play that game if you really want" |
| 02:51.59 | Dave | OH SNAP |
| 02:52.05 | Dave | No he di'int! |
| 02:52.10 | rooly | so tomorrow i'm gonna throw all his dirty clothes that he leaves in the goddam bathroom back on his bed |
| 02:52.18 | *** join/#openmoko d-b (n=alias@124-168-165-111.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:52.19 | rooly | which is a pile about 2 ft high |
| 02:52.19 | Dave | rooly |
| 02:52.22 | Dave | you need a new roommate |
| 02:52.26 | rooly | i know |
| 02:52.31 | rooly | but i don't get one til he gets fired |
| 02:52.35 | DocScrutinizer | a new flat |
| 02:52.36 | rooly | which can't be much longer |
| 02:52.42 | doc|laptop | rooly: why not move out? |
| 02:52.50 | Dave | uhhh |
| 02:52.55 | rooly | cause i'm a tenant at a work appartment |
| 02:52.58 | doc|laptop | wait, are you my housemate? don't move out :( |
| 02:53.02 | doc|laptop | jokes |
| 02:53.09 | Dave | oh :\ |
| 02:53.13 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 02:53.21 | rooly | and its stay here or in my car |
| 02:53.26 | doc|laptop | hmmm |
| 02:53.29 | doc|laptop | how big is the car? |
| 02:53.31 | rooly | and my car isn't very comfortable to sleep in |
| 02:53.34 | doc|laptop | ;) |
| 02:53.35 | DocScrutinizer | wasn't there a movie called "email"? |
| 02:53.37 | rooly | its a 99 honda accord 2-door |
| 02:53.41 | doc|laptop | fair enough |
| 02:53.49 | rooly | DocScrutinizer: "You've got mail" |
| 02:54.12 | rooly | with whats-his-name from the dan brown movie |
| 02:54.19 | ndnihil | yayyyyy, ive got mail, ive got mail, ive got mail, yayyyyyy |
| 02:54.19 | DocScrutinizer | that's the one |
| 02:54.47 | rooly | and whats her name from the lawyer-chick-sues-chemical-company-that-poisened-population-of-town |
| 02:55.09 | eolson | brokovich |
| 02:55.12 | rooly | yeah |
| 02:55.28 | DocScrutinizer | is alway mombling "eeeww, another mail. eek still another one" ;) |
| 02:55.42 | rooly | just glances at them now |
| 02:55.45 | Dave | poor rooly |
| 02:55.48 | rooly | i don't even 'mark all as read' anymore |
| 02:55.52 | rooly | poor me? |
| 02:55.57 | rooly | why poorme |
| 02:56.04 | rooly | i'm going to exact vengeance |
| 02:56.10 | SeligArkin | because you are about to get fired |
| 02:56.11 | rooly | if a game is going to be played, i will win |
| 02:56.22 | Dave | take pictures |
| 02:56.22 | rooly | me? |
| 02:56.23 | rooly | no |
| 02:56.25 | rooly | impossible |
| 02:56.26 | Dave | post online |
| 02:56.32 | rooly | i won't get fired unless i cuss out my boss |
| 02:56.33 | Dave | rooly can't get fired |
| 02:56.36 | Dave | he's too awesome |
| 02:56.37 | Dave | :D |
| 02:56.39 | rooly | nope |
| 02:56.47 | rooly | that and...me dad owns j00 |
| 02:56.58 | rooly | please slap me if i ever say that again |
| 02:57.01 | SeligArkin | your dad is my pimp? |
| 02:57.13 | rooly | sure sure |
| 02:57.22 | Dave | :D |
| 02:57.25 | rooly | more specifically tho, he's the owner of the company |
| 02:57.30 | Dave | OH |
| 02:57.31 | Dave | hahahahahaha |
| 02:57.34 | rooly | so me getting fired? not gonna happen unless i cuss him out |
| 02:57.51 | rooly | plus i do my job |
| 02:58.03 | rooly | and show up on time about 98% of the time |
| 02:58.08 | DocScrutinizer | ~wtf j00 |
| 02:58.09 | SeligArkin | or so you say |
| 02:58.38 | SeligArkin | junction 00? |
| 02:58.55 | Dave | hope it pays |
| 02:58.57 | rooly | i think its a dot-product between racists, anti-semites, and script kidies, all wrapped up into a nice bit of 'leet-speak' |
| 02:58.59 | doc|laptop | I think he's being anti-semitic |
| 02:59.03 | Dave | hope it's worth staying with an asshat roommate |
| 02:59.10 | Dave | cute |
| 02:59.10 | rooly | dave, its not |
| 02:59.21 | Dave | :| |
| 02:59.50 | eolson | rooly, you could live with your boss |
| 02:59.54 | rooly | but i either sink into the lappy, stay out of the apt all evening until he's gone to bed, and more usually, he just doesn't stay in here because there's nobody to bitch at |
| 03:00.12 | rooly | 'cause ahm nawt heuh |
| 03:00.29 | doc|laptop | rooly: or you give him a proper beating and he learns his lesson |
| 03:00.35 | rooly | i could |
| 03:00.37 | doc|laptop | has been watching too much of The Wire |
| 03:00.43 | rooly | but i won't |
| 03:00.50 | rooly | not unless one is provoked |
| 03:01.08 | rooly | see, if i don't throw the first punch, and don't provoke, i dont' get fired |
| 03:01.14 | rooly | and he's a little puss anyway |
| 03:01.38 | rooly | also about half my height |
| 03:01.44 | rooly | not literally, but a head shorter |
| 03:02.04 | SeligArkin | <dirty joke here> |
| 03:02.09 | rooly | ... |
| 03:02.14 | rooly | yeah, there too |
| 03:03.32 | rooly | jesus, why am i telling people all my problems recently |
| 03:04.08 | DocScrutinizer | rooly: tthat's en vogue it seems |
| 03:04.37 | DocScrutinizer | though some people don't even notice it |
| 03:04.44 | DocScrutinizer | when they do |
| 03:05.08 | rooly | its just not like me |
| 03:05.15 | DocScrutinizer | (talking about a certain speech held recently) |
| 03:05.38 | rooly | hmm? |
| 03:05.43 | rooly | one that's all over the intrarwebs? |
| 03:05.49 | DocScrutinizer | ah, nevermind |
| 03:05.55 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 03:06.10 | rooly | snickers |
| 03:07.35 | doc|laptop | dude here in the cafe fixing uneven painting. Whips out spirit iphone level :( |
| 03:08.01 | doc|laptop | *iphone spirit level |
| 03:08.39 | DocScrutinizer | wooow, seen that on FR a year ago I think |
| 03:09.00 | doc|laptop | until the battery died? :) |
| 03:10.13 | DocScrutinizer | doc|laptop: nah, we make the bat swell to autoadjust the spirit level ;) |
| 03:10.30 | doc|laptop | hehehe |
| 03:10.31 | DocScrutinizer | right Dave? |
| 03:10.54 | Dave | YES |
| 03:11.13 | *** join/#openmoko phosphoricx (n=fmaker@c-98-208-21-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:11.17 | rooly | i think the topic should be changed to "Massively redundant reports of massive redundancies..." |
| 03:11.23 | DocScrutinizer | THAT'S truely innovative engineering! |
| 03:11.59 | rooly | snickers |
| 03:12.15 | rooly | its funny that everything on the iphone was a tech-demo on the FR a year before |
| 03:12.54 | raster | rooly: except for actually decently fast gfx :) |
| 03:12.55 | raster | :) |
| 03:13.07 | raster | wonders why blender has to suck so much |
| 03:13.13 | rooly | hey |
| 03:13.13 | Dave | :D |
| 03:13.14 | rooly | hey hey hey |
| 03:13.15 | rooly | thatsa low blow |
| 03:13.26 | rooly | but the FR definitely had opengl long before |
| 03:13.35 | DocScrutinizer | bender? ;D |
| 03:13.46 | mwester | and the fact that it could make a phone call. That's rather a nice feature, for a phone, at least once in a while. |
| 03:13.47 | rooly | even if it was ogl 1.2 software and 6fps with only 4 vertices |
| 03:13.51 | DocScrutinizer | my favourite bot |
| 03:13.52 | raster | rooly: it never had it |
| 03:14.08 | raster | rooly: it had a chip "in theory capable of it" |
| 03:14.16 | raster | ooh |
| 03:14.18 | *** join/#openmoko SeligArkin (i=selig@wenduri.darkdna.net) |
| 03:14.19 | raster | software gl doesnt count |
| 03:14.24 | rooly | sure it does |
| 03:14.32 | raster | unless its hyper-optimsied software that actually is "fast" (for software) |
| 03:14.33 | SeligArkin | Well that was fun |
| 03:14.35 | rooly | iphone never had software gl |
| 03:14.43 | doc|laptop | this is funny http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1188191&cid=27461149 |
| 03:14.59 | rooly | would kiss whoever could port homeworld to FR |
| 03:15.13 | rooly | don't make me kiss myself |
| 03:15.17 | rooly | cause i go all the way |
| 03:15.52 | raster | homeworld would need source first |
| 03:16.06 | rooly | source is available |
| 03:16.07 | raster | as such the 3d hw on the gta02 is pretty weak |
| 03:16.13 | raster | but the 6410.. that would be doable |
| 03:16.14 | rooly | just stripped of things like bink video |
| 03:16.16 | ndnihil | just use wine |
| 03:16.19 | raster | that the gta03 was using |
| 03:16.23 | rooly | slaps ndnihil |
| 03:16.27 | ndnihil | :) |
| 03:16.27 | raster | ooh it is? |
| 03:16.28 | raster | ok |
| 03:16.32 | rooly | wine is NOT an emulator |
| 03:16.33 | Dave | :o |
| 03:16.39 | raster | u'd also need to implement full gl on top of gles |
| 03:16.40 | raster | possible |
| 03:16.41 | raster | but work |
| 03:16.45 | raster | or convert to gles |
| 03:16.59 | ndnihil | imagines how painfully slow wine on the FR would be |
| 03:17.42 | raster | ndnihil: t wouldnt be slow.. as it wouldnt do much but instantly exit |
| 03:17.51 | rooly | ndnihil: it wouldn't work at all |
| 03:17.52 | raster | so it'd get to exiting really fast |
| 03:18.02 | rooly | wine runs on x86 archtectures |
| 03:18.14 | rooly | wine is NOT an emulator |
| 03:18.26 | ndnihil | well, wine could run on any arch, but the software it would be running wont |
| 03:18.58 | rooly | so if you could find windows source, or windows apps compiled for a full windows desktop running on an arm9 core (doesn't exist) then maybe wine would be useful |
| 03:19.38 | ndnihil | XP source was floating around, but really I think I'll pass |
| 03:19.39 | rooly | windows *app* source |
| 03:19.53 | DocScrutinizer | rooly: that's why FR-vmware started years ago |
| 03:20.15 | rooly | ..?? |
| 03:20.22 | DocScrutinizer | ;D |
| 03:20.30 | rooly | gawd |
| 03:20.37 | rooly | lets not even joke about a vm running on the FR |
| 03:20.56 | ndnihil | spins up another DomU on the FR |
| 03:21.04 | doc|laptop | heh |
| 03:21.08 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 03:21.22 | DocScrutinizer | is Dom0 |
| 03:21.40 | DocScrutinizer | *cough* |
| 03:22.37 | rooly | domo origato |
| 03:22.51 | ndnihil | atsui tenke denu ne?! |
| 03:22.57 | ndnihil | er |
| 03:22.58 | ndnihil | desu |
| 03:24.16 | Dave | o_O |
| 03:24.27 | rooly | snickers |
| 03:24.32 | rooly | good one ndnihil |
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| 03:30.26 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 03:38.33 | paulproteus | http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bernerzeitung.ch%2Fdigital%2Fmobil%2FVorlaeufig-kein-weiteres-LinuxTelefon%2Fstory%2F15176367&sl=de&tl=en&history_state0= ? |
| 03:38.51 | rooly | we know |
| 03:39.00 | paulproteus | I just learned, pardon me. |
| 03:39.07 | Dave | :) |
| 03:39.26 | rooly | its really non-news |
| 03:39.36 | *** join/#openmoko mwester (n=mwester@209-242-7-134.rev.dls.net) |
| 03:39.50 | SeligArkin | watches torchwood |
| 03:41.27 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 03:41.29 | rooly | just like the 'orphaned works bill' in the US, its something that should have happened a long time ago, but is only news now because someone spoke about it and a bunch of ignorant bloggers are complaining |
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| 03:42.00 | Dave | hahah |
| 03:42.41 | paulproteus | rooly, Fair enough. |
| 03:42.49 | SeligArkin | hedh |
| 03:42.54 | SeligArkin | 'They made you aminisa' |
| 03:43.29 | rooly | paulproteus: it really only means a slow-down in developement |
| 03:43.39 | rooly | not that any of us were seeing anything noticeable anyway |
| 03:43.41 | rooly | us end-users |
| 03:44.03 | *** join/#openmoko brain (n=knoppix@ip72-204-125-6.fv.ks.cox.net) |
| 03:44.10 | doc|laptop | would have been nice to have a gta03 in the works |
| 03:44.17 | doc|laptop | just to see the company continue :/ |
| 03:44.22 | rooly | mmhmm |
| 03:44.31 | KenYoung | doc|laptop, Yup. |
| 03:44.32 | doc|laptop | so, can we predict what the new device might be? :) |
| 03:44.42 | doc|laptop | anyone got any suggestions? :) |
| 03:44.44 | KenYoung | Defective |
| 03:44.47 | rooly | lol |
| 03:44.48 | doc|laptop | hahaha |
| 03:44.52 | rooly | lmao |
| 03:45.02 | doc|laptop | that has to go onto the jokes page |
| 03:45.07 | doc|laptop | or would that be in bad taste? |
| 03:45.19 | brain | :) |
| 03:45.29 | doc|laptop | DocScrutinizer: any objections? :) |
| 03:47.57 | brain | WELL |
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| 03:51.27 | rooly | do it |
| 03:51.28 | rooly | OD IT |
| 03:51.33 | rooly | DO even |
| 03:52.35 | doc|laptop | hehe |
| 03:53.13 | SeligArkin | DOOEEET |
| 03:54.02 | doc|laptop | can't remember his wiki login |
| 03:54.07 | doc|laptop | someone else want to do it? |
| 03:54.14 | rooly | doesn't have a wiki login |
| 03:54.22 | rooly | doesn't like wiki's really |
| 03:54.26 | rooly | too hard to find any information |
| 03:54.36 | doc|laptop | search++ |
| 03:55.15 | rooly | wiki search needs pow(wiki.search, (unsigned int)-1) |
| 03:55.19 | rooly | before its useable |
| 03:55.54 | ndnihil | google <string> +site:wiki.wherever |
| 03:56.10 | ndnihil | better than most wiki and forum search functions |
| 03:56.19 | rooly | still gross |
| 03:56.43 | rooly | the problem with a wiki is it has no site map |
| 03:56.48 | rooly | no structure |
| 03:57.20 | ndnihil | the real problem with wiki is that stupid name, "wiki" |
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| 04:01.30 | Dave | Cervajz :S |
| 04:01.31 | Dave | :D |
| 04:02.10 | Cervajz | Dave: What? |
| 04:03.12 | SeligArkin | dave must be randy again |
| 04:11.09 | SeligArkin | watches some SG-1 |
| 04:12.04 | rooly | wishes that season 9 and 10 weren't so god-awfully....awful? |
| 04:12.43 | SeligArkin | wishes hulu had more than season 1 |
| 04:13.16 | rooly | the pirate bay has links to more |
| 04:13.29 | SeligArkin | :p |
| 04:13.52 | *** join/#openmoko d-b (n=alias@124-168-165-111.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 04:13.56 | SeligArkin | and i don't have the internets or the disk space to rip it off |
| 04:13.59 | SeligArkin | :P |
| 04:14.33 | rooly | ic |
| 04:18.30 | Dave | :p |
| 04:18.49 | Dave | poor little selig |
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| 05:01.51 | SeligArkin | watches 1x21 then goes to sleep |
| 05:08.30 | rooly | places a hidden camera in her room |
| 05:14.14 | SeligArkin | does a striptease for the camera |
| 05:14.58 | rooly | grows a massive erection |
| 05:15.02 | rooly | aww damnit |
| 05:15.04 | rooly | damnit |
| 05:15.13 | rooly | thanks alot SeligArkin. now i have to beat it down |
| 05:15.43 | SeligArkin | heh |
| 05:16.05 | SeligArkin | didn't know you liked guys in girls clothes. :P |
| 05:16.41 | rooly | well, to each his own, eh? |
| 05:18.00 | SeligArkin | haha |
| 05:18.08 | SeligArkin | 'mmmm goa'uld tv...' |
| 05:18.27 | rooly | ooo! |
| 05:18.37 | rooly | goa'ulds gone wild! |
| 05:18.49 | SeligArkin | haha |
| 05:19.28 | rooly | i think i shall sleep |
| 05:19.29 | rooly | its late |
| 05:19.35 | rooly | and i have to be up at the crack of dawn |
| 05:19.39 | rooly | and itss gonna be cold |
| 05:19.41 | rooly | ... |
| 05:19.41 | SeligArkin | ... oh god, moaning and saying 'oh yes' in goauld voice... |
| 05:19.46 | SeligArkin | oh god I haste you roo |
| 05:19.53 | rooly | err |
| 05:19.56 | rooly | s? |
| 05:20.04 | SeligArkin | cries trying to get the image out of her head |
| 05:20.28 | rooly | SeligArkin: its already there from the movie |
| 05:20.31 | rooly | the first movie |
| 05:20.38 | rooly | when the chick gets made into a queen |
| 05:20.41 | slaxxin | need a linuxquestions.org type of setup |
| 05:21.23 | SeligArkin | I need a blow-....., deier... |
| 05:21.42 | rooly | is that an attempt at drier or derier |
| 05:21.52 | SeligArkin | drier |
| 05:22.00 | SeligArkin | notes hulu is a drain on her internets |
| 05:22.06 | rooly | snickers |
| 05:22.08 | rooly | night |
| 05:22.11 | rooly | gotta go |
| 05:22.15 | rooly | its gonna be hell in the morning |
| 05:22.18 | SeligArkin | night |
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| 09:09.35 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 09:16.12 | azaghal | Yo, btw |
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| 09:27.11 | CVirus | shall we leave this channel ? |
| 09:27.33 | ruskie | why |
| 09:27.41 | CVirus | OM is dying in my opinion |
| 09:27.44 | CVirus | I'm too frustrated |
| 09:28.10 | CVirus | I'll buy an N97 :-p |
| 09:28.52 | ruskie | lol |
| 09:28.58 | azaghal | Actually, OM shows why it's important that the product is Free "Software" |
| 09:30.35 | ruskie | I think the formula for OM is wrong |
| 09:30.55 | ruskie | it should try to compete against stuff like the nokia N/E series... |
| 09:31.00 | azaghal | Well, they made some errors, but the good thing is we can survive :) |
| 09:31.04 | SpeedEvil | ruskie: there should be more $ on the left |
| 09:31.20 | ruskie | while infact it seems to be more competing against HTC and WM devices |
| 09:31.43 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it, there has not been confirmation on if or not there will be new run(s) of FR |
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| 09:32.16 | SpeedEvil | If FR is still actually selling - then there is no development involved in making another 2000, with all the fixes. |
| 09:34.08 | CVirus | I guess Steve Mosher and Sean do nothing but talk |
| 09:34.25 | CVirus | they never even talked on IRC |
| 09:34.25 | SpeedEvil | I hesitate in saying that. |
| 09:34.36 | SpeedEvil | They have produced useful hardware. |
| 09:34.55 | CVirus | they have "failed" at producing useful hardware |
| 09:35.00 | SpeedEvil | dash? |
| 09:35.04 | CVirus | ah ok |
| 09:35.13 | CVirus | well |
| 09:35.19 | SpeedEvil | And I find GTA01 useful, though I don't actually use it much as a phone. |
| 09:35.25 | CVirus | we never knew what happened with dash .. except on the day it was released |
| 09:36.26 | SpeedEvil | http://www.amazon.com/Dash-Express-Internet-Connected-All-Your-Base-Portable-Navigator/dp/B0014CIBWC/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1238924150&sr=8-1 |
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| 09:45.16 | SpeedEvil | I note that the dash is now on sale - one person notes they've stopped selling |
| 09:45.46 | SpeedEvil | and used ones are $120 |
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| 09:52.23 | Shlee | The OM wasn't a failed experiment in any light tho. Hardware issues/software issues/NDA issues/political issues aside |
| 09:54.54 | SpeedEvil | Many believe substantially more could have been achieved with the same investment. Which could be viewed as a failure. |
| 09:55.15 | SpeedEvil | It has certainly - so far - failed to achieve any of the stated aims at the beginning of the project. |
| 09:55.53 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: what were they? |
| 09:56.02 | SpeedEvil | Good question. |
| 09:56.09 | SpeedEvil | stares back into the mists of time. |
| 09:56.16 | lindi- | i got what i expected |
| 09:56.40 | lindi- | of course i was hoping to be positively surprised but my real expectations were not that high |
| 09:56.43 | SpeedEvil | Not the explanations of what you got when ordering a phone - that was mostly sane. |
| 09:57.16 | SpeedEvil | The optimism as to where the project was going - that it would be consumer ready 'soon'. |
| 09:57.30 | PBeck | lindi-: than is your expectance a other than the description text on the website ;) |
| 09:57.49 | lindi- | PBeck: parse error |
| 09:57.50 | PBeck | on example => the buzz |
| 09:58.01 | PBeck | or the gps problem with sd |
| 09:58.03 | lindi- | my buzz is fixed :) |
| 09:58.14 | lindi- | my sd bandwidth is high enough |
| 09:58.22 | SpeedEvil | http://openmoko.com/press/OpenMoko_20061107.pdf |
| 09:58.24 | SpeedEvil | for example |
| 09:58.33 | zeroedout | neva had buzz! |
| 09:58.38 | mithris | from the beginning, was the 'plan' or atleast idea to have the community provide the software for the phone? or was OpenMoko supposed to get a solid base, and then the community would add gadgets and cool stuff? |
| 09:58.41 | PBeck | lindi-: when i buyed my freerunner the sayed it has no mistakes and i can use it as phone when the software is ready |
| 09:58.59 | PBeck | lindi-: not the bandwith => a gps fix |
| 09:59.17 | PBeck | but i think the software solution is as good as the hardwaresolution right? |
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| 09:59.35 | lindi- | PBeck: no. the software solution is better |
| 09:59.36 | PBeck | mithris: the develop paroli of course the will provide the software |
| 09:59.42 | PBeck | *they |
| 09:59.43 | lindi- | PBeck: gpx fix? |
| 09:59.56 | lindi- | PBeck: i have no problems with gps fix |
| 10:00.17 | Shlee | I supported this project because I was hoping the idea of an open source phone would allow greater investment in the next release... and snowball |
| 10:00.18 | PBeck | lindi-: the problem that you have to wait hours for a gps fix |
| 10:00.21 | Shlee | hopefully it still does |
| 10:00.36 | SpeedEvil | - for me - GTA01 - with an adequate software stack would be a _completely_ adequate phone. |
| 10:00.37 | PBeck | lindi-: i hope you understand my bad english :) |
| 10:01.02 | PBeck | Shlee: it's not at the end :) we are at the beginning :) |
| 10:01.03 | lindi- | PBeck: i don't need to wait for hours to get gps fix |
| 10:01.16 | PBeck | lindi-: hum that WAS a problem |
| 10:01.29 | PBeck | lindi-: the had applied a hardware fix and a software solution to fix it |
| 10:01.29 | lindi- | PBeck: yeah |
| 10:01.48 | PBeck | but i think the software solution was alone enough, right? |
| 10:01.58 | lindi- | yep |
| 10:02.05 | PBeck | ok than its ok |
| 10:02.12 | Shlee | I'd keep my GTA01 for an adroid phone |
| 10:02.18 | PBeck | lindi-: have you applied the buzz fix yourself? |
| 10:02.39 | holycow | so anyone know what the new product is going to be? |
| 10:02.49 | lindi- | PBeck: nope, i used the help of a collegue who is familiar with smd soldering |
| 10:03.17 | PBeck | lindi-: hum - i should look into the solution, perhaps i can apply it myself |
| 10:03.52 | lindi- | PBeck: if you don't have soldering experience i would not recommend |
| 10:04.38 | PBeck | lindi-: i have a bit smd soldering experience :) |
| 10:05.07 | PBeck | perhaps its enough ;) |
| 10:05.14 | lindi- | PBeck: then you can try |
| 10:05.18 | PBeck | holycow: perhaps a mp3 player? |
| 10:05.21 | lindi- | just don't start without the right components |
| 10:05.31 | PBeck | holycow: i dont know - we can discuss a few ideas ;) |
| 10:05.39 | holycow | heh |
| 10:05.40 | PBeck | lindi-: jpo |
| 10:05.43 | PBeck | *jop |
| 10:06.03 | PBeck | Shlee: when android runs on the freerunner the hardware it not useless ;) |
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| 10:06.08 | PBeck | *is |
| 10:06.33 | PBeck | Shlee: but i think in the future we will have a few stable platforms - i hope so :) |
| 10:06.58 | lindi- | PBeck: you really think so? |
| 10:07.17 | lindi- | PBeck: the issues I have are related to kernel, X and ogsmd. none of these will android fix |
| 10:07.28 | holycow | so just out of curiosity, is access to the cell networks controlled by a 'cellular modem?' |
| 10:07.40 | lindi- | holycow: what does that mean? |
| 10:07.41 | holycow | i'm just curious if the concept is similar to how we handle network access on a pc |
| 10:08.08 | holycow | i.e. can one buy 'cel modems' to attach to sbc's? |
| 10:08.18 | PBeck | lindi-: why you need ogsmd in android? |
| 10:08.26 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 10:08.30 | SpeedEvil | holycow |
| 10:08.43 | lindi- | PBeck: to talk to calypso? |
| 10:08.54 | holycow | SpeedEvil: neat |
| 10:08.57 | PBeck | lindi-: ogsmd is the framework? |
| 10:09.12 | lindi- | PBeck: well, you need something that talks to the gsm, right? |
| 10:09.17 | PBeck | android use it? i think they had a own solution? |
| 10:09.20 | SpeedEvil | holycow: think of radio as lots of 10base-t networks, connected to everyone in range on the same frequency. And maybe a hundred thousand seperate networks for each different frequency |
| 10:09.50 | holycow | oh neato. thats a neat way to visualize it |
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| 10:11.05 | PBeck | lindi-: it gives many solution to talk with the hardware |
| 10:11.34 | holycow | SpeedEvil: so theoretically, one can probably buy some off the shelf sbc components and build their own cel device |
| 10:11.46 | holycow | they won't be able to sell it because of regulation, but it might be doable? |
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| 10:22.18 | lindi- | PBeck: but android does not know the quirks of calypso gsm chiop |
| 10:23.43 | PBeck | lindi-: but the not use the framework - that will be new for me |
| 10:23.46 | PBeck | *they |
| 10:26.23 | lindi- | PBeck: what makes you think google android would use fso frameworkd+ |
| 10:27.11 | Shlee | fso is the best for handling the calypso quirkiness tho |
| 10:27.20 | PBeck | lindi-: ogsmd? |
| 10:27.31 | lindi- | PBeck: ogsmd is part of frameworkd |
| 10:27.44 | PBeck | 12:07:17 < lindi-> PBeck: the issues I have are related to kernel, X and ogsmd. none of these will android fix |
| 10:27.52 | PBeck | lindi-: but not a part of android |
| 10:28.05 | PBeck | so why should android fix ogsmd? |
| 10:28.08 | lindi- | PBeck: yes, android has its own module for talking to the gsm chip |
| 10:28.21 | PBeck | ok, where is the problem then? :) |
| 10:28.29 | lindi- | PBeck: it does not handle the quirks of calypso |
| 10:30.02 | PBeck | example? |
| 10:30.16 | PBeck | and why it should not handle the quirks in the future? |
| 10:30.52 | lindi- | PBeck: why would it handle them any better than ogsmd? ;) |
| 10:31.19 | PBeck | why not? |
| 10:31.28 | PBeck | i think they have the same information |
| 10:31.40 | lindi- | PBeck: they don't have access to NDA'd calypso sources |
| 10:31.56 | PBeck | lindi-: but they can look into the ogsmd code? |
| 10:32.00 | lindi- | PBeck: sure |
| 10:32.20 | PBeck | so they will have the same information |
| 10:32.23 | lindi- | PBeck: but since even ogsmd is not that stable yet it won't help |
| 10:32.33 | PBeck | lindi-: lol |
| 10:33.47 | lindi- | PBeck: http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/calypso-modem |
| 10:34.18 | PBeck | lindi-: btw any project can sign the nda |
| 10:34.34 | PBeck | lindi-: so i think the android porter can do the same |
| 10:35.14 | lindi- | PBeck: really? |
| 10:35.34 | PBeck | lindi-: they do the same with glamo, why not for the gsm chip? |
| 10:36.32 | lindi- | PBeck: is it the same? |
| 10:36.50 | lindi- | PBeck: glamo is from Smedia |
| 10:36.55 | lindi- | PBeck: calypso is from TI |
| 10:37.35 | PBeck | lindi-: openmoko can say that he is a employee |
| 10:38.00 | PBeck | a freelancer so why he not should get the nda? |
| 10:38.24 | pazante | do you need to put in modules manually when using SHR-testing |
| 10:38.28 | pazante | http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin |
| 10:38.41 | pazante | http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2 |
| 10:39.05 | lindi- | PBeck: maybe |
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| 10:40.31 | pazante | i cant get suspend/resume working properly |
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| 10:41.35 | lindi- | PBeck: i'm just trying to argument that android in its current form won't help me with my freerunner issues unfortunately |
| 10:44.08 | PaulFertser | pazante: what exactly the problem? |
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| 10:44.47 | pazante | it wont resume |
| 10:45.15 | PaulFertser | pazante: resume from what event? |
| 10:45.19 | PaulFertser | pazante: kernel version? |
| 10:45.58 | pazante | event and if i push the power button |
| 10:46.58 | PaulFertser | pazante: inserting usb (wallcharger or PC) should resume it too. What kernel version are you using? |
| 10:49.39 | pazante | PaulFertser: kernel version 2.6.28-rc4 |
| 10:50.33 | PaulFertser | pazante: and how do you suspend? Have you tried to "echo mem > /sys/power/state"? |
| 10:52.20 | PBeck | lindi-: i think no distri is perfect |
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| 10:53.00 | lindi- | PBeck: true |
| 10:53.36 | PBeck | lindi-: i use my neo only for geocaching und osm with tangogps ;) |
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| 10:53.56 | PBeck | lindi-: but i hope that i will it use for more in the future :) |
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| 10:54.40 | PBeck | lindi-: or can use it ;) |
| 10:55.35 | pazante | PaulFertser: i only have it on auto suspend |
| 10:55.45 | lindi- | PBeck: you should try navit |
| 10:57.31 | PBeck | lindi-: i need only a mapviewer no navigation |
| 10:57.34 | PBeck | i like tangogps :) |
| 10:58.26 | lindi- | PBeck: you can use navit like that |
| 10:59.13 | PBeck | lindi-: i should test it ;) |
| 11:01.37 | lindi- | PBeck: the advantage is that the maps take much less space |
| 11:01.50 | PBeck | lindi-: how much? |
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| 11:08.26 | azaghal | PBeck: 21MB for whole Serbia. |
| 11:08.48 | azaghal | PBeck: And easier to download them on some other machine, then transfer them to Neo. |
| 11:09.10 | azaghal | (there's a nice tool on navit's site for downloading OSM maps) |
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| 11:19.24 | PBeck | azaghal: that sounds great |
| 11:19.41 | PBeck | i have a few gb for a part of germany ;) |
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| 11:19.57 | azaghal | I think there's a pre-made bin file for Germany, btw. |
| 11:20.18 | Wonka | last time i looked at navit, its OSM map download function produced artifacts in rectangular form |
| 11:20.27 | Wonka | looked really ugly |
| 11:20.34 | azaghal | Or not... |
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| 11:20.36 | PBeck | azaghal: yep i think so too |
| 11:20.37 | azaghal | PBeck: wget -O germany.bin http://maps.navit-project.org/api/map/?bbox=5.185546875,46.845703125,15.46875,55.634765625 |
| 11:20.43 | azaghal | But that's not prebuilt. |
| 11:20.50 | Wonka | i'd like something that works with the native osm binary format |
| 11:20.52 | PBeck | ok thanks |
| 11:21.01 | azaghal | Wonka: The tool on the site? |
| 11:21.09 | azaghal | Or the tool within navit app? |
| 11:21.18 | azaghal | Because it lookd ok here |
| 11:21.31 | Wonka | azaghal: "some mapviewer" |
| 11:21.40 | Wonka | azaghal: argh, misunderstanding |
| 11:21.41 | PBeck | Wonka: which format you mean? |
| 11:21.54 | Wonka | azaghal: don't know which tool it was, back then |
| 11:22.16 | azaghal | I think it has improved over time :) |
| 11:22.32 | azaghal | Maemo Mapper might still hold an edge over it feature-wise, though. |
| 11:22.39 | Wonka | PBeck: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Mobile_Binary_Protocol |
| 11:23.00 | azaghal | I wonder if anyone tried making 3D maps using GPS traces? |
| 11:24.16 | Wonka | azaghal: just forget that. only yesterday, i was tracking along a road wich clearly was several m above NN, and GPS said -11m |
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| 11:24.28 | azaghal | Heheh |
| 11:24.29 | azaghal | Pitty |
| 11:24.36 | ruskie | lol |
| 11:24.37 | azaghal | Wonka: Limitiation in FR GPS device? |
| 11:24.45 | Wonka | azaghal: vertical DOP is _way_ too big, even with 8 satellites used |
| 11:24.48 | ruskie | now go down 11 meters in the middle of the highway ;) |
| 11:24.49 | azaghal | Wonka: I guess it's good it didn't show -2m ;) |
| 11:24.56 | azaghal | Ah, ok. |
| 11:25.25 | ruskie | hell atlast people might actually consider that the device isn't all-knowing and start using their brains again |
| 11:25.30 | PBeck | Wonka: ok thanks |
| 11:25.34 | Wonka | maybe a better gps device (ublox 5?) will have better results |
| 11:25.35 | azaghal | Using GPS for time-setting might be interesting as well. I've seen some page about it on wiki. |
| 11:25.55 | Wonka | azaghal: that's implemented in frameworkd since weeks or even months |
| 11:26.07 | azaghal | Nice :) |
| 11:26.35 | PBeck | i think the freerunner gps is a very good device |
| 11:26.38 | azaghal | Am I right to guess that development of fso framework will depend on community exclusively as well now? |
| 11:27.07 | azaghal | I'd like to find a GPS device that does communication over USB but has its own power supply, though :) |
| 11:27.15 | ruskie | that'd be nice |
| 11:27.34 | PBeck | azaghal: to your notebook? |
| 11:27.36 | ruskie | shouldn't be to much of a prob I think... the data lines are separate |
| 11:27.40 | azaghal | PBeck: To FR :) |
| 11:27.51 | PBeck | why? |
| 11:27.54 | azaghal | No idea how much power bluetooth consumes. |
| 11:28.00 | PBeck | i think the chip is very accurat |
| 11:28.07 | azaghal | Nah, not that. |
| 11:28.14 | azaghal | With GPS battery can last ~2-3 hours only. |
| 11:28.24 | azaghal | Bro's external GPS can last for ~6-7 hours. |
| 11:28.41 | PBeck | azaghal: you mean only the battery time? |
| 11:28.46 | azaghal | Yes. |
| 11:28.52 | PBeck | i think it will be longer that 2-3 hours |
| 11:29.08 | azaghal | Well, 2-3 hours is what apm used to show me. |
| 11:29.27 | PBeck | i have it not testest but after 2-3 hours my freerunner was only on 50% |
| 11:29.32 | PBeck | *tested |
| 11:29.33 | azaghal | But I'm impressed how much it can last with wifi on. (8-9 hours with screen brightness at 30%) |
| 11:29.52 | azaghal | Actually, my Nokia 6300 tends to deplete battery very fast when the screen is kept lit. |
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| 11:31.33 | lindi- | Wonka: is there anything that uses OSM MBP? |
| 11:31.37 | Wonka | i'd like to get me some USB charger device built that uses AA cells or something... |
| 11:31.43 | Wonka | external battery pack |
| 11:31.47 | Wonka | lindi-: i don't know |
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| 11:32.49 | lindi- | Wonka: i bought my usb battery for $14 |
| 11:33.28 | Wonka | lindi-: but I am (sometimes) working on "zgps" - ripped the GPS part of zhone out and started extending that - and am thinking about putting tracking and map viewing into that so that i won't need tangogps any more |
| 11:33.43 | PBeck | http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/index.html Wonka |
| 11:33.57 | lindi- | Wonka: why not just work on navit? |
| 11:34.07 | lindi- | Wonka: navit already supports many map formats already afaik |
| 11:34.13 | PBeck | Wonka: perhaps you can use pylgrm? |
| 11:34.23 | Wonka | lindi-: i'd like to have an "all in one" gps app |
| 11:34.51 | Wonka | PBeck: nice device |
| 11:35.16 | lindi- | Wonka: isn't navit trying to do that? |
| 11:35.46 | *** join/#openmoko Gun_Smoke (n=S@fsf/member/GunSmoke) |
| 11:36.05 | lindi- | and "all in one" sounds difficult. "do one thing and do it well" is much easier to understand and develop |
| 11:36.06 | Wonka | lindi-: hm, does navit show satellite signal strengths, satellite positions? |
| 11:36.32 | lindi- | Wonka: not sure, wouldn't be too difficult to add though? |
| 11:36.46 | PBeck | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/bb0143acc306410e938f25756f626e40.png Wonka pygrm, but it uses pyneo |
| 11:37.17 | PBeck | so you have different map providers - but pylgrm only shows it - pymapd do the work in the backgroun |
| 11:37.31 | PBeck | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/2c3cbcc15cd10b8488a0bc376fcf6eb8.png |
| 11:37.55 | Wonka | lindi-: http://chaos.in-kiel.de/~w/openmoko/zhone-modwonka-left.png http://chaos.in-kiel.de/~w/openmoko/zhone-modwonka.png |
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| 11:38.03 | lvh | hi |
| 11:38.04 | PBeck | http://www.millions.ca/~stacy/mintyboost/ <= mintyboost with freerunner |
| 11:38.05 | azaghal | Wonka: There's some link on wiki for external battery pack for FR :) |
| 11:38.05 | Wonka | lindi-: woulnd't want to lose those |
| 11:38.31 | azaghal | lindi-: Define "USB battery", please :) |
| 11:38.58 | Wonka | PBeck: quite nice one |
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| 11:39.42 | PBeck | so i will go offline now |
| 11:39.43 | PBeck | bye bye |
| 11:39.43 | Wonka | PBeck: you are near hamburg? i am near Kiel... |
| 11:39.56 | PBeck | Wonka: i am near stuttgart ;) |
| 11:39.57 | lindi- | azaghal: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3060 Rechargeable USB Emergency Power Backup Pack 2400mAh $14.43 |
| 11:40.00 | Wonka | PBeck: :( |
| 11:40.12 | lindi- | Wonka: wouldn't it be easy to have those as separate apps? |
| 11:40.16 | azaghal | Thanks |
| 11:40.32 | PBeck | Wonka: but i gives a few people where lives in hamburg ;) |
| 11:40.35 | PBeck | *it |
| 11:40.35 | Wonka | lindi-: that's what i have now |
| 11:40.58 | azaghal | Man, it'll be hard for me to pass customs on my way back from USA :D |
| 11:41.07 | Wonka | lindi-: i "just" need some decent map viewing app now |
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| 11:41.19 | azaghal | lindi-: What size is it? |
| 11:41.26 | azaghal | Wonka: navit :) |
| 11:41.28 | Wonka | lindi-: tangogps does much, but it's not really perfect |
| 11:41.31 | PBeck | http://fyp-map.relei.de/ <= Wonka |
| 11:41.53 | lindi- | azaghal: smaller than fr :) |
| 11:42.10 | Wonka | PBeck: not much up here... |
| 11:42.10 | azaghal | Nice, I might end-up buying two. |
| 11:42.15 | PBeck | Wonka: yes ;) |
| 11:42.30 | azaghal | Time to figure out if I can have it shipped to a hotel ;) |
| 11:42.52 | PBeck | so i go offline bye bye Wonka ;) |
| 11:42.58 | Wonka | hf |
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| 11:56.56 | munga | hello. do you know where I can download the celldb either from cellhunter or opencellid ? I can't find any working link on their websites... |
| 11:58.02 | munga | there is a "download db" on cellhunter, but the php script times out very quickly ... |
| 11:59.03 | lindi- | munga: opencellid.org has a link surely? |
| 11:59.21 | lindi- | munga: the 'raw data' link |
| 11:59.35 | Dave | :D |
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| 11:59.46 | Dave | Wish onen was here :P |
| 11:59.59 | Wonka | hm. anyone got any idea how i can find a mem leak in a python app? |
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| 12:01.06 | Dave | Good luck :D |
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| 12:03.02 | munga | lindi-: I'm sorry but I can't see on their page ... Am I being stupid ? |
| 12:03.33 | lindi- | munga: try using lynx or elinks |
| 12:03.51 | Wonka | starts with VIRT 25524 RSS 14276... |
| 12:03.56 | munga | yes... I guess that was the problem !! thanks |
| 12:04.06 | Dave | :P |
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| 12:07.52 | IvdSangen | im too stupid to get gcc working on shr testing |
| 12:08.25 | IvdSangen | where is the assembler? |
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| 12:31.07 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r9fec63410b6a 10/ (.gitignore docs/frameworkd.conf.sample): add sample configuration |
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| 12:42.32 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r5b71dd4e432b 10/libfsoframework/fsoframework/subsystem.vala: fsoframework: subsystem: s/error/logger.warning/ |
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| 13:12.52 | beer_ | is there any good news about gta02v7 (a buzz free phnoe)? |
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| 13:14.06 | simoo | i don't think openmoko are making phones anymore |
| 13:14.22 | PaulFertser | simoo: they do |
| 13:14.24 | mickeyl | 02 is still in production |
| 13:14.27 | mickeyl | as are parts |
| 13:14.37 | PaulFertser | simoo: they still sell gta02 and will produce it more if there is a demand |
| 13:14.41 | simoo | oh that's good news |
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| 13:15.23 | simoo | I didn't understand the article properly cos it needed to be translated |
| 13:15.36 | mjr | Yeah, they're just not _designing_ a new phone right now. If they survive, which I hope they will, but am uncertain, they'll likely return to that at some point. |
| 13:15.47 | PaulFertser | Or the article was wrong, as usually all the articles are. |
| 13:16.14 | azaghal | Buzz problem was hardware problem in the end? |
| 13:16.28 | simoo | so development on the freerunner has stopped and development on a new phone has stopped but they will continue to make the freerunner? |
| 13:16.29 | PaulFertser | azaghal: sure, it's known for more than half a year already. |
| 13:16.34 | azaghal | mjr: Wait, they're not closing down OpenMoko Inc then? |
| 13:16.43 | PaulFertser | simoo: the development of freerunner software is not stopped. |
| 13:16.44 | azaghal | PaulFertser: Shucks :/ |
| 13:17.10 | simoo | PaulFertser: just cut back> |
| 13:17.12 | beer_ | but will they update gta02v6 with the bugfix around the buzz (also known as gta02v7)? |
| 13:17.13 | mjr | azaghal, they're not. Yet, at least. |
| 13:17.19 | dos1 | stopped is ONLY development of GTA03 |
| 13:17.27 | dos1 | GTA02 is fine ;p |
| 13:17.46 | simoo | I'm glad to hear that :) |
| 13:17.47 | mjr | Well, it's not fine, but it's "okay". |
| 13:17.50 | azaghal | Ok, I had the impression they're stopping development altogether. There's gotta be some English-written article out there. |
| 13:18.09 | mickeyl | read my blog post |
| 13:18.25 | beer_ | dos1: I will not say that gta02 is fine becouse it still have hardware bugs (buzz bug) |
| 13:18.26 | simoo | could you give me a link? |
| 13:18.36 | mickeyl | top on planet.openmoko.org atm. |
| 13:18.46 | dos1 | beer_: i mean development of gta02 is fine, as it isn't stopped |
| 13:18.48 | lindi- | beer_: but gta02V7 |
| 13:18.58 | simoo | thanks |
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| 13:19.56 | dos1 | beer_: there will be even gta02v8, so gta02 developing is fine ;p |
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| 13:26.33 | Shlee | just /. news isn't real news. |
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| 13:45.21 | Shlee | mmm community updates. or. the reason I live |
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| 13:50.55 | Dave | laughs at Selig |
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| 14:18.59 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rbecf32ee86b4 10/fsodeviced/src/plugins/kernel26_leds/plugin.vala: fsodevice: kernel26_leds: complete SetNetworking, SetBrightness cleans trigger now. |
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| 14:28.16 | beer_ | I will just hear how many in here is gonan by a new phone after latest information about OM? |
| 14:30.24 | leinir | Not me :) |
| 14:30.56 | azaghal | I _have_ one. |
| 14:31.09 | azaghal | What I need to buy is a dozen or two of batteries just in case :) |
| 14:31.30 | azaghal | In fact, OpenMoko Inc. might make more money now selling batteries etc than Neo Freerunners now ;) |
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| 14:33.19 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r07029d0443a9 10/fsogsmd/ (6 files in 4 dirs): fsogsmd: start with TI Calypso Modem Plugin |
| 14:33.37 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r832bb431242d 10/TODO: add TODO |
| 14:34.33 | azaghal | Argh, alioth.debian.org is down and now my apt-cacher-ng is confused as hell :) |
| 14:36.44 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rc37b8ea98fad 10/fsogsmd/src/plugins/modem_ti_calypso/ (Makefile.am plugin.vala): fsogsmd: add missing modem_ti_calypso files |
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| 14:43.01 | TAsn | http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240 |
| 14:43.04 | TAsn | is this true? |
| 14:43.04 | TAsn | ;[ |
| 14:44.28 | mickeyl | yes and no |
| 14:44.33 | mickeyl | the article doens't quite cut it |
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| 14:45.50 | TAsn | i c. |
| 14:45.57 | TAsn | well what's the yes/no? |
| 14:45.59 | TAsn | ;] |
| 14:46.07 | TAsn | raster, here? |
| 14:46.18 | TAsn | I think I have a clue concerning utf input. |
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| 14:52.58 | dyf | why doesn't it cut it? |
| 14:53.35 | dyf | it says that it'll be discontinued |
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| 14:55.02 | raster | TAsn: ja? |
| 14:55.07 | raster | dyf: ? |
| 14:55.15 | TAsn | look, xev output: |
| 14:55.27 | TAsn | state 0x0, keycode 249 (keysym 0xcec, hebrew_lamed), same_screen YES, |
| 14:55.27 | TAsn | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:55.52 | TAsn | for some reason xlookupstring can not get the associated string |
| 14:55.54 | raster | aaah xlookupstrting is failing |
| 14:55.57 | dyf | raster: http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240 |
| 14:55.58 | beer_ | that just mean you should buy more phomes wile you can |
| 14:55.58 | raster | thats why |
| 14:56.03 | TAsn | isn't that a locale issue? |
| 14:56.10 | raster | dyf: ooh that. old news. |
| 14:56.15 | TAsn | raster, do you know how to fix it? |
| 14:56.19 | raster | TAsn: to be honest.. i don't know |
| 14:56.30 | TAsn | hehe #xorg are not helping either |
| 14:56.35 | TAsn | actually they are ignoring me ;[ |
| 14:56.37 | dyf | raster: April 4 is old news? |
| 14:56.58 | TAsn | raster, what's xlookupstring db? |
| 14:57.03 | raster | TAsn: ecore_x wraps that |
| 14:57.11 | raster | it uses Xutf8LookupString() if available |
| 14:57.25 | raster | if not - it tries XmbLookupString() |
| 14:57.28 | TAsn | raster, I don't care about ecore_x yet, as it seems, it's a "deeper" problem. |
| 14:57.33 | raster | oooh wait |
| 14:57.40 | TAsn | ? |
| 14:57.42 | raster | it only does so.. if _ecore_x_ic |
| 14:57.46 | raster | ie if an input method exists |
| 14:59.03 | Dave | Rasterize! |
| 15:00.53 | raster | TAsn: theres more than 1 way to get the string from a keypress |
| 15:00.57 | SeligArkin | wonders why she was being laughed at |
| 15:01.01 | raster | XLookupString |
| 15:01.04 | raster | XmbLookupString |
| 15:01.07 | raster | Xutf8LookupString |
| 15:01.09 | TAsn | yeah, I know. |
| 15:01.09 | raster | :) |
| 15:01.14 | TAsn | though where do they get their data from? |
| 15:01.26 | SeligArkin | the 10th dimention |
| 15:01.27 | raster | from deep in x's own lookup tables |
| 15:01.42 | raster | that map modifiers + keysym to a string |
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| 15:04.10 | TAsn | and where does that get it's data from? |
| 15:04.14 | TAsn | it must come from somewhere |
| 15:04.25 | raster | i have never tracked it |
| 15:04.27 | TAsn | something must be different from my desktop computer. |
| 15:04.38 | beer_ | I am just wondering if (or when) the Neo Freerunner comunity will die after the annoncement |
| 15:06.52 | raster | TAsn: you mean it works on your desktop? |
| 15:07.17 | raster | beer_: hope it stays alive.. because there are plans outside of om to do a new open phone |
| 15:07.30 | TAsn | raster |
| 15:07.32 | TAsn | not |
| 15:07.34 | TAsn | no* |
| 15:07.36 | TAsn | haven't tested |
| 15:07.51 | TAsn | I just mean my keyboard works on my desktop |
| 15:07.59 | TAsn | and they are both sending the same keysym. |
| 15:08.00 | TAsn | ... |
| 15:08.06 | TAsn | (different states though) |
| 15:08.28 | beer_ | raste: where? and will he hardware be bether than Freerunner (with more nice stuff)? |
| 15:08.29 | TAsn | and of course, different keycodes. |
| 15:09.32 | raster | beer_: i wouldnt bother being invovled unless it was better. i'm invovled. where - around. people talking. the problem is money. we can talk and discuss all we want. without seriously large wads of cash - this cant go to production. |
| 15:09.41 | PaulFertser | TAsn: fyi i can type russian letters with matchbox-keyboard in rxvt-unicode. |
| 15:09.52 | raster | it's not like software where everyone can just sink some time into it in their bedroom |
| 15:10.06 | *** join/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@61.170.167.211) |
| 15:10.06 | TAsn | I can type hebrew letters with gtk ... |
| 15:10.11 | TAsn | gtk apps* |
| 15:10.17 | raster | hardware is different as its physical and invovles buying things like components, and has assembly and production costs. totally different to software |
| 15:10.19 | *** part/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@61.170.167.211) |
| 15:10.38 | raster | TAsn: i seriously am not sure |
| 15:10.40 | TAsn | the problem is that gtk apps translate keysyms on their own for some reason (or so I think) |
| 15:10.48 | raster | xlookupstring is returnign null |
| 15:10.49 | TAsn | though they shouldn't |
| 15:10.50 | raster | thats why |
| 15:10.52 | raster | no string |
| 15:10.54 | TAsn | raster, I know. |
| 15:10.59 | TAsn | it's something with X. |
| 15:11.11 | raster | and ecore_x has no inpute method handler to use Xutf8LookupString or XmbLookupString with |
| 15:11.35 | raster | (inptu methods are used for complex input like japanese/korean/chinese etc.) |
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| 15:17.07 | TAsn | I know, that's why I'm trying to look into xlookupstring's code now. |
| 15:18.27 | raster | i've never really looked |
| 15:18.34 | raster | my guess is.. this is beyond what it can do? |
| 15:18.40 | raster | (by default) |
| 15:18.47 | raster | and gtk is falling back to other methods? |
| 15:24.11 | *** join/#openmoko cga_ (n=cga@82.84.135.35) |
| 15:26.33 | thrashold | The battery of my Neo has swelled a bit (I can't close the cover fully anymore) and I have trouble booting the phone I managed once, then it quickly died, and I managed again after charging it for a few hours... Maybe I need a new battery? Hm... |
| 15:27.56 | Wonka | swollen batteries are most probably defective |
| 15:28.07 | Wonka | go get it exchanged |
| 15:28.43 | TAsn | raster, gtk works great |
| 15:28.50 | TAsn | though I think it translates by it's own. |
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| 15:34.50 | raster | TAsn: crap. thats a bug translation table to add |
| 15:35.34 | TAsn | raster, I'm not sure I got you, please rephrase. |
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| 15:35.54 | azaghal | thrashold: Holly poop - don't use that battery, get it out and throw it away. |
| 15:36.03 | SpeedEvil | swolen batteries are potentially dangerous, and should never, ever be used. |
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| 15:36.13 | SpeedEvil | Or stored on anything you don't care about if it goes on fire. |
| 15:36.48 | azaghal | TAsn: When you say gtk, do you mean some other keyboard used with gtk or Illume keyboard with gtk? |
| 15:37.12 | azaghal | Btw, I made Serbian layout and I was happy as a dog before it turned out it doesn't really work :) |
| 15:37.18 | azaghal | Renders very nicely, though ;) |
| 15:37.35 | TAsn | azaghal, illume keyborad with gtk apps... |
| 15:37.45 | TAsn | we are only talking about the illume keyboard. |
| 15:37.51 | TAsn | now when I say gtk translates |
| 15:37.55 | TAsn | I mean the actual lib. |
| 15:37.59 | azaghal | Ah... I thought that Illume Keyboard was the problem at the time. |
| 15:38.09 | raster | TAsn: map every available and possibly extended x keysyms + every modifier |
| 15:38.11 | TAsn | I bet they do that for supporting their own keyboard layout handling. |
| 15:38.26 | raster | (shit, ctrl, alt, and combos thereof (win, meta, hyper...) |
| 15:38.37 | TAsn | raster, ok, and you think it's broken? |
| 15:38.46 | azaghal | TAsn: Just to double-check, gtk apps work (as in non-latin chars) with illume-keyboard or...? |
| 15:38.54 | TAsn | azaghal, yeah. |
| 15:38.57 | TAsn | they do work. |
| 15:38.59 | raster | hmm |
| 15:39.07 | raster | no i just think it may be a limitation of xlib |
| 15:39.12 | azaghal | Hm... Wait, I what didn't work when I tried it? I think it was shift+key? |
| 15:39.13 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:39.25 | raster | but i cant try it for myself |
| 15:39.29 | azaghal | Now that I think about it, some things worked, some didn't. |
| 15:39.33 | raster | no idea if it shoudl work on a "properly installed system" |
| 15:39.44 | azaghal | What if we replace Xglamo with X.org? |
| 15:40.41 | TAsn | azaghal, isn't that the same? |
| 15:40.46 | TAsn | (a fork) |
| 15:40.56 | azaghal | No idea, I'm unsure. |
| 15:41.14 | azaghal | X.org is probably more complete? |
| 15:41.57 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r869cca2ff71a 10/fsogsmd/src/plugins/gsm_device/plugin.vala: fsogsm: try to instanciate modem plugin, if found |
| 15:41.59 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r69a969feef27 10/fsogsmd/ (4 files in 3 dirs): fsogsmd: add build skeleton for modem_cinterion_mc75 |
| 15:42.01 | TAsn | bah, it's taking forever to clone the libx11 git server... ;[ |
| 15:43.11 | azaghal | Trying this on Debian might prove easier. |
| 15:43.28 | TAsn | haha cloning the cgit with wget ;] |
| 15:43.56 | raster | azaghal: this is primarily lib/client side |
| 15:43.57 | raster | not server |
| 15:44.14 | azaghal | Ok |
| 15:44.14 | raster | and kdrive is jhust another server built off the same code as xorg |
| 15:45.07 | TAsn | well raster |
| 15:45.16 | TAsn | at least we found the problem ;] |
| 15:45.20 | TAsn | now we only need to fix it ;] |
| 15:45.27 | raster | yeah |
| 15:45.30 | raster | but it makes sense |
| 15:45.41 | TAsn | what makes sense? |
| 15:45.47 | TAsn | btw, isn't that locale related? |
| 15:45.50 | raster | the event loop is asking xlib "what is the string of this keypress" and xlib is saying "" |
| 15:45.57 | TAsn | oh, yeah |
| 15:46.02 | TAsn | I know it makes sense. |
| 15:46.14 | TAsn | that's why I checked it in the first place |
| 15:46.28 | TAsn | I figured something is inheritly broken. |
| 15:46.35 | raster | as such F1, F2, and others keys have no string |
| 15:46.37 | raster | so u have to ask |
| 15:46.43 | raster | u cant just use the keysym |
| 15:46.50 | raster | comma -> "," |
| 15:46.52 | raster | for example |
| 15:47.01 | raster | as for locale |
| 15:47.03 | raster | not sure |
| 15:47.07 | raster | i really dont know |
| 15:48.41 | TAsn | same here |
| 15:48.43 | TAsn | and as I said |
| 15:48.50 | TAsn | #xorg guys aren't helping ;[ |
| 15:48.54 | PaulFertser | TAsn: btw, do you know about git shallow clones? It's faster to download only several latest revisions. |
| 15:49.03 | TAsn | PaulFertser, wtf?! |
| 15:49.04 | TAsn | how? |
| 15:49.05 | TAsn | ;] |
| 15:49.30 | PaulFertser | TAsn: --depth <revnumber> |
| 15:50.17 | TAsn | I can do --depth HEAD? |
| 15:50.26 | PaulFertser | TAsn: --depth 1 |
| 15:50.31 | TAsn | nice. |
| 15:50.36 | TAsn | thanks. |
| 15:50.51 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178019001.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:51.17 | PaulFertser | TAsn: anyway you'll need xlib sources, not xserver. |
| 15:51.35 | TAsn | i know... |
| 15:52.42 | PaulFertser | TAsn: and afair, kdrive is something very experimental and probably it doesn't share any code with x.org. At least xmodmap doesn't work there properly. |
| 15:53.02 | TAsn | ;\ |
| 15:53.10 | TAsn | so you think it's a kdrive issue? |
| 15:53.42 | *** join/#openmoko uhsf (n=uhsf@modemcable016.172-57-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 15:54.09 | TAsn | Keyboard support |
| 15:54.09 | TAsn | At the time of writing, the KDrive server only has support for a generic Linux keyboard; the keyboard mapping is copied from the Linux kernel tables at startup. As X11 has richer keyboard information than Linux, and furthermore KDrive's mapping tables are incomplete, the results are not always perfect; I have found it necessary to fix my keyboard using xmodmap |
| 15:54.18 | TAsn | from kdrive's website. |
| 15:55.03 | max_posedon | kdrive included in latests xserver |
| 15:55.13 | TAsn | oops, not from their website. |
| 15:55.15 | PaulFertser | TAsn: i guess i can test with xorg. |
| 15:55.21 | max_posedon | as jyst specific hw |
| 15:55.28 | TAsn | you have illume+xorg installed? |
| 15:56.30 | PaulFertser | TAsn: i've just tried illume from the Debian repo and yes, i have it installed. BTW, do you think russian input should work in Zhone? It doesn't work for me with matchbox-keyboard iirc. |
| 15:56.33 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@79-66-107-124.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 15:56.53 | TAsn | PaulFertser, may be a font issue |
| 15:57.00 | TAsn | I don't yet know anything. |
| 15:57.01 | TAsn | ;] |
| 15:57.42 | PaulFertser | TAsn: font? No, i see russian in received messages without issues. |
| 15:58.01 | TAsn | i c. |
| 15:58.08 | TAsn | no idea then. ;] |
| 15:58.28 | TAsn | I have an idea, I'll try a normal keyboard. |
| 15:58.29 | TAsn | sec. |
| 15:58.56 | *** join/#openmoko Mek (n=marijn@93.157.1.37) |
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| 16:05.06 | TAsn | shit |
| 16:05.10 | TAsn | no usb keyboard |
| 16:05.43 | uhsf | I just read that FreeRunner is discontinued. That's no real surprise to me. I bought it as my first and only phone and because of the non-existence of open source alternatives, but I never considered the FreeRunner to be a real phone anyway. Now it happens to be more like a buggy prequel to the real first open source phone, the Palm Pre. Thanks to Openmoko anyway for allowing me to make, receive and miss some open source phone calls i |
| 16:06.10 | dos1 | uhsf: bullshit |
| 16:06.43 | dos1 | uhsf: FreeRunner is continued; GTA03 is discontinued |
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| 16:10.13 | PaulFertser | TAsn: just tried with matchbox-keyboard and xorg. The result is the same. |
| 16:10.22 | TAsn | tried xev? |
| 16:10.31 | TAsn | oh, with xorg? |
| 16:10.32 | *** part/#openmoko robster (n=robster@bungle.evilgeniuses.org.uk) |
| 16:10.34 | PaulFertser | TAsn: state 0x100, keycode 253 (keysym 0x100043f, U043F), same_screen YES, XLookupString gives 0 bytes: XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes: |
| 16:10.36 | TAsn | real xorg? |
| 16:10.52 | PaulFertser | TAsn: real xorg with framebuffer |
| 16:10.53 | TAsn | hm, try the same thing on your computer please |
| 16:11.03 | TAsn | here it shows the keysym's name. |
| 16:11.32 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon_ (n=max_pose@237-243-252-87-dynamic-pool.gprs.mts.by) |
| 16:11.38 | PaulFertser | TAsn: state 0x2000, keycode 38 (keysym 0x6c6, Cyrillic_ef), same_screen YES, XLookupString gives 1 bytes: (c6) "Æ" (that's using a real keyboard, not matchbox-keyboard) |
| 16:11.51 | TAsn | real keyboard on the moko? |
| 16:12.02 | PaulFertser | TAsn: on my computer like you asked :) |
| 16:12.08 | TAsn | ok. |
| 16:12.12 | TAsn | just wondered ;] |
| 16:12.15 | PaulFertser | TAsn: i've not connected anything to my FR yet. |
| 16:12.23 | PaulFertser | TAsn: have all the components, but no motivation. |
| 16:12.24 | TAsn | it seems something is broken in you xorg |
| 16:12.29 | TAsn | (keysym 0x100043f, U043F) |
| 16:12.29 | TAsn | ;\ |
| 16:12.31 | TAsn | *your |
| 16:12.34 | PaulFertser | TAsn: and in your kdrive too ;) |
| 16:12.46 | TAsn | two different broken stuff though ;] |
| 16:14.25 | PaulFertser | TAsn: it's two different things. On desktop "state 0x2000, keycode 38", on virtual keyboard on FR it's "state 0x100, keycode 253" (probably not the same key, but both in russian layout). |
| 16:15.10 | PaulFertser | TAsn: on my PC i switch layout prior to typing russian. matchbox-keyboard sends the result directly in utf-8. |
| 16:15.30 | PaulFertser | TAsn: matchbox-keyboard-ui.c:223,mb_kbd_ui_send_press() Sending 'а' |
| 16:16.23 | TAsn | i c. |
| 16:16.30 | TAsn | illume keyboard doesn't |
| 16:16.40 | TAsn | illume keyboard acts as a keyboard |
| 16:16.49 | TAsn | from what I can tell. |
| 16:16.57 | raster | mb does too |
| 16:17.03 | raster | check libfakekey |
| 16:17.56 | raster | anyway |
| 16:18.00 | raster | 2:20am |
| 16:18.02 | raster | must zzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
| 16:18.05 | raster | zzzzzzzzzzzzzz's |
| 16:18.11 | PaulFertser | raster: good night :) |
| 16:18.15 | shellevil | night |
| 16:19.13 | TAsn | Rakshasa, night |
| 16:19.15 | TAsn | bah |
| 16:19.26 | TAsn | s/Rakshasa/raster/ |
| 16:19.55 | PaulFertser | TAsn: maybe you want to check urxvt sources to see how it handles the input? |
| 16:20.07 | TAsn | not related |
| 16:20.18 | TAsn | it's gtk which handles input |
| 16:20.22 | TAsn | and gtk translates by it's own. |
| 16:20.33 | *** part/#openmoko shellevil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 16:20.56 | *** join/#openmoko shellevil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
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| 16:22.56 | TAsn | PaulFertser, any idea what could the abbreviation Xim might mean? |
| 16:22.59 | PaulFertser | TAsn: xterm in utf8 works for me too. |
| 16:23.24 | TAsn | i see at a lot as function prefix. |
| 16:23.26 | PaulFertser | TAsn: and "which xterm | grep gtk" gives nothing of course. |
| 16:23.27 | PaulFertser | TAsn: so it's not gtk-related. |
| 16:23.49 | TAsn | yeah. |
| 16:23.50 | TAsn | hm... |
| 16:23.56 | TAsn | I wonder. |
| 16:24.10 | *** join/#openmoko Fish (n=SPARCman@AVelizy-152-1-54-104.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:24.14 | TAsn | http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib |
| 16:24.24 | TAsn | which will contain xim in your opinion? |
| 16:24.24 | TAsn | ;] |
| 16:24.43 | PaulFertser | TAsn: x input method? |
| 16:24.51 | TAsn | i thought so |
| 16:24.57 | TAsn | though libXi doesn't contain it. |
| 16:24.57 | TAsn | ;\ |
| 16:24.58 | *** join/#openmoko Gromgull (n=ggrimnes@p5DD11152.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:25.19 | Gromgull | Noone has actually made a buzz fix wiki page with links to all the photos people post? |
| 16:25.30 | Gromgull | Is there such a thing as the "official buzz fix guide"? :) |
| 16:25.33 | PaulFertser | TAsn: that's to enter some complex characters (like chinese) with the help of external program to show some cool panel and help enter pinin. |
| 16:26.06 | PaulFertser | Gromgull: sure, Joerg's SOP can be considered almost official guide. |
| 16:26.21 | Gromgull | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/GSM_EMI_noise/ this one? |
| 16:26.24 | TAsn | bah. |
| 16:26.30 | Gromgull | I guess that's it |
| 16:26.30 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 16:26.31 | Gromgull | thanks! |
| 16:26.32 | TAsn | then where will they be at? |
| 16:26.45 | PaulFertser | TAsn: who? ;) |
| 16:26.55 | TAsn | the xim* functions |
| 16:27.15 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * ra99a4f2a80b0 10/libfsoframework/ (7 files in 2 dirs): fsoframework: add FsoFramework.BaseObject, handling configuration and logging |
| 16:27.25 | PaulFertser | TAsn: why do you care? |
| 16:27.51 | TAsn | i'm trying to figure out |
| 16:27.59 | TAsn | where xlookupstring takes it's data from. |
| 16:28.04 | TAsn | I really think this may be a locale issue. |
| 16:28.12 | PaulFertser | TAsn: (-- Is it a national habit to ask questions in response to questions? -- Well, why do you ask? ) |
| 16:28.35 | TAsn | PaulFertser, ;] |
| 16:29.31 | PaulFertser | TAsn: then why xterm doesn't care and inserts the right character? |
| 16:32.19 | TAsn | no idea. |
| 16:32.30 | TAsn | that's what I'm trying to figure out. |
| 16:35.14 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * ra1df1974764a 10/libfsoframework/ (4 files in 2 dirs): |
| 16:35.14 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: fsoframework: AbstractObject: define basic repr() function and set ReprDelegate in construct |
| 16:35.14 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: classes deriving from AbstractObject need to define their own repr function |
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| 16:38.56 | *** join/#openmoko madwoota (i=mad@woota.net) |
| 16:39.45 | PaulFertser | TAsn: btw, rxvt-unicode doesn't work for me. Only xterm does. (on freerunner) One more thing to think about... |
| 16:40.05 | TAsn | yeah |
| 16:40.11 | TAsn | I googled and saw something about that |
| 16:40.18 | TAsn | can't remember what |
| 16:40.21 | *** join/#openmoko viktor (n=viktor@residence-232-134.mschaffer.ualberta.ca) |
| 16:40.26 | TAsn | though rxvt wasn't working with kdrive |
| 16:43.37 | TAsn | PaulFertser, are kdrive's libx11 and regular libx11 the same? |
| 16:44.12 | PaulFertser | TAsn: kdrive and xorg are servers. libx11 is client lib. |
| 16:44.23 | TAsn | oh |
| 16:44.32 | TAsn | i thought kdrive is a whole implementation. |
| 16:44.33 | TAsn | cool enough. |
| 16:45.07 | PaulFertser | TAsn: it's server implementation, yes. BTW, do you know that alternative to Xlib exists, it's called Xcb? |
| 16:45.22 | TAsn | oh, I heard about that |
| 16:45.27 | TAsn | do we use it on the moko? |
| 16:45.48 | PaulFertser | TAsn: any X app is free to use it. |
| 16:46.23 | TAsn | but do we? |
| 16:47.29 | lindi- | there's also pure java implementation of X client libraries |
| 16:48.31 | dos1 | TAsn: if i undestand it correctly it's only apps issue, which X lib it is using |
| 16:48.57 | dos1 | TAsn: so when we are instaling pidgin on moko, which is Xlib based, we are using Xlib |
| 16:49.13 | dos1 | TAsn: and when we are installing another app on moko, which is Xcb based, we are using Xcb too |
| 16:49.16 | TAsn | oh ok. |
| 16:49.57 | PaulFertser | TAsn: xcb is installed on my Debian. Can't figure what depends on it yet. |
| 16:51.11 | lindi- | ii xcb 2.4-4+b1 Pigeon holes for your cut and paste selections |
| 16:51.14 | lindi- | that one? ;) |
| 16:52.02 | PaulFertser | lindi-: no, libxcb1 |
| 16:54.59 | lindi- | PaulFertser: libx11-6 depends on libxcb1 |
| 16:56.11 | PaulFertser | lindi-: would you please share the command so i'll be able to find things like that myself? |
| 16:57.19 | lindi- | PaulFertser: iki.fi/lindi/what-depends-on |
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| 16:58.33 | PaulFertser | lindi-: wonderful, thanks :) |
| 17:01.25 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-078-042-071-198.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 17:01.38 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 17:01.44 | *** join/#openmoko Shlee (n=quassel@219-90-167-101.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 17:05.38 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@55-243-252-87-dynamic-pool.gprs.mts.by) |
| 17:07.21 | TAsn | ok |
| 17:07.24 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 17:07.28 | TAsn | i'm 99.99% sure it's a locale issue! |
| 17:07.47 | PaulFertser | TAsn: it's possible that xterm uses Xutf8LookupString, (which xev doesn't try) |
| 17:08.06 | TAsn | but e also uses that |
| 17:08.18 | TAsn | and here at home xlookupstring does work. |
| 17:08.24 | TAsn | PaulFertser, I think it's a locale issue |
| 17:08.28 | TAsn | we need a utf8 locale |
| 17:09.51 | PaulFertser | TAsn: yep, just tried with xev, it works! |
| 17:10.00 | TAsn | what works? |
| 17:10.05 | TAsn | locale? |
| 17:10.20 | PaulFertser | TAsn: XLookupString gives 2 bytes: (d0 bf) "п" |
| 17:10.28 | TAsn | where can I get myself a utf8 locale?! the moko doesn't even have locale-gen |
| 17:10.30 | TAsn | PaulFertser, locale? |
| 17:10.37 | PaulFertser | TAsn: after starting in en_US.utf8 locale |
| 17:10.41 | TAsn | bah |
| 17:10.43 | PaulFertser | TAsn: Debian does have it ;) |
| 17:10.51 | TAsn | I actually mailed a friend today |
| 17:10.59 | TAsn | saying I know how to solve the hebrew input issue |
| 17:11.04 | TAsn | (sent the mail this morning) |
| 17:11.09 | TAsn | telling him it's a locale issue |
| 17:11.18 | TAsn | I can't believe I was right and haven't tried it until now! |
| 17:11.19 | TAsn | ;[ |
| 17:12.33 | PaulFertser | TAsn: input is zhone doesn't work though. |
| 17:12.44 | TAsn | i don't use zhone ;] |
| 17:14.40 | PaulFertser | TAsn: so yes, locale issue confirmed :) Nice you found it! |
| 17:14.53 | TAsn | but I need a utf8 locale ;[ |
| 17:15.05 | TAsn | but great.! ;] |
| 17:15.08 | TAsn | I'm glad. |
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| 17:34.34 | TAsn | PaulFertser, hey, what did you do that worked with the utf8 locale? |
| 17:35.03 | PaulFertser | TAsn: export LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 |
| 17:35.53 | TAsn | hm... trying. |
| 17:35.59 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rb105ab8ff7d5 10/fsogsmd/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): fsogsmd: refactor for FsoFramework.AbstractObject and FsoGsm.AbstractModem |
| 17:36.14 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p579B8059.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:36.23 | TAsn | nope |
| 17:36.28 | TAsn | no success here |
| 17:36.36 | TAsn | although I thought I generated a proper locale. |
| 17:36.36 | TAsn | ;\ |
| 17:36.38 | PaulFertser | TAsn: locale -a output? |
| 17:36.59 | TAsn | i generated it by hand |
| 17:37.00 | PaulFertser | TAsn: i mean, it should include the locale you want to use. And then you need to start xev from the same terminal to have LC_ALL set. |
| 17:37.03 | TAsn | and called it just en_US |
| 17:37.10 | TAsn | without the .utf-8 |
| 17:37.44 | PaulFertser | TAsn: i doubt that's a correct way to do it. |
| 17:38.23 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.171.16.125) |
| 17:38.23 | *** join/#openmoko weirdedout (n=gonePost@220-253-14-121.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 17:38.34 | TAsn | ;\ |
| 17:39.03 | *** join/#openmoko lloyd_fedora (n=chatzill@123.236.13.245) |
| 17:39.19 | PaulFertser | TAsn: why can't you use locale-gen? |
| 17:39.21 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian1 (n=ram@122.171.16.125) |
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| 17:39.29 | TAsn | there's no such app/package available. |
| 17:40.00 | *** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl) |
| 17:40.16 | PaulFertser | TAsn: it's a simple bash script that uses localedef. |
| 17:42.26 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal_ (n=azaghal@91.148.112.67) |
| 17:43.31 | TAsn | thanks for the tip |
| 17:43.32 | TAsn | trying. |
| 17:44.36 | *** join/#openmoko roterguru (n=chatzill@p5B1675F8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:44.46 | roterguru | hi all |
| 17:44.54 | roterguru | how can I get qmake on OM? |
| 17:46.51 | TAsn | PaulFertser, no go. |
| 17:46.55 | TAsn | generated locales |
| 17:47.00 | TAsn | set LC_ALL |
| 17:47.04 | TAsn | ran xev |
| 17:47.08 | TAsn | nothing. |
| 17:47.20 | *** join/#openmoko edje (n=chatzill@pced.ipv6.kapitein.org) |
| 17:47.20 | TAsn | locale -a includes the wanted locale. |
| 17:48.58 | PaulFertser | TAsn: does it have utf8 at the end? |
| 17:49.31 | TAsn | duh. |
| 17:50.04 | PaulFertser | TAsn: i don't know, it works for me... |
| 17:51.16 | PaulFertser | TAsn: btw, when you set LC_ALL, you better use en_US.UTF-8, not en_US.utf8. The second might not work, i think i had some issues when configured my laptop with gentoo. |
| 17:51.27 | TAsn | tried both. |
| 17:52.08 | TAsn | on the other hand, I'm not using matchbox keyboard... |
| 17:54.49 | TAsn | PaulFertser, russian keyboard, right? |
| 17:55.03 | freerunnerlive | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k40WhlST3w |
| 17:55.18 | TAsn | PaulFertser, trying out a russian keyboard... ;] |
| 17:55.35 | freerunnerlive | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nskjem5Zo_k |
| 17:56.06 | TAsn | PaulFertser, It could be also a keymap issue. |
| 17:56.35 | *** join/#openmoko alfatangoxt (n=michele@host167-16-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:56.39 | PaulFertser | TAsn: yeah, russian matchbox-keyboard :) |
| 17:57.06 | TAsn | well I'm trying the russing illume keyboard ;] |
| 17:57.10 | TAsn | just to make sure. |
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| 18:00.39 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal (n=azaghal@host-105-62.kbcnet.co.yu) |
| 18:01.55 | TAsn | PaulFertser, mind showing me a full output line? |
| 18:01.58 | TAsn | (of xev) |
| 18:03.48 | PaulFertser | TAsn: http://pastebin.com/m1ee7bed0 |
| 18:03.54 | TAsn | thanks |
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| 18:07.50 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:07.53 | Dave | :o |
| 18:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko dyf (n=ad@wcpguelp492edinburgh.grokspots.com) |
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| 18:13.36 | linuksamiko | hello, does anybody know something about this development? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr821OgnvYc |
| 18:13.39 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.171.16.125) |
| 18:14.09 | linuksamiko | where can I get an image I wanne check it out |
| 18:14.35 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r52ba0881fe3b 10/fsogsmd/ (6 files in 5 dirs): fsogsmd: add singleline modem abstraction |
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| 18:21.01 | *** part/#openmoko uhsf (n=uhsf@modemcable016.172-57-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 18:21.44 | *** part/#openmoko xiangfu (n=xiangfu@123.121.226.133) |
| 18:21.48 | TAsn | PaulFertser, It's still not working. ;\ |
| 18:23.14 | PaulFertser | TAsn: XLookupString still doesn't lookup, i assume... :-/ |
| 18:23.25 | TAsn | aye. |
| 18:24.46 | PaulFertser | TAsn: if you start xterm with the LC_ALL set, do you see any errors? Does "locale" works properly in the started terminal? |
| 18:24.57 | TAsn | I wonder if I broken something without noticing. |
| 18:25.02 | TAsn | PaulFertser, don't have xterm. |
| 18:25.11 | PaulFertser | TAsn: well, urxvt? |
| 18:25.14 | TAsn | though I don't get errors when doing locale |
| 18:25.19 | TAsn | PaulFertser, only vala-terminal ;] |
| 18:25.32 | TAsn | and it's working great with heb |
| 18:25.32 | PaulFertser | TAsn: usually xlib programs complain when you try to start them in an unsupported locale. |
| 18:25.40 | TAsn | though iirc it worked before. |
| 18:25.45 | PaulFertser | TAsn: RTL? |
| 18:25.50 | TAsn | no |
| 18:27.15 | *** join/#openmoko flexd (n=flexd@127.79-160-12.customer.lyse.net) |
| 18:27.32 | TAsn | omg |
| 18:27.42 | TAsn | i didn't have libx11-locale installed |
| 18:27.46 | TAsn | retrying. |
| 18:28.23 | TAsn | YAY~!!! |
| 18:28.25 | TAsn | ;];];];];];] |
| 18:28.41 | PaulFertser | TAsn: how did you find that? |
| 18:28.49 | TAsn | what? not having it? |
| 18:28.57 | TAsn | opkg list | grep locale |
| 18:29.02 | TAsn | and went through all the packages |
| 18:29.06 | TAsn | checking what I may miss |
| 18:29.08 | PaulFertser | TAsn: why you thought it's needed? |
| 18:29.17 | TAsn | actually, I passed by it a couple of times |
| 18:29.24 | TAsn | thinking it's probably installed already |
| 18:29.29 | TAsn | though it WASNT |
| 18:29.30 | TAsn | wtf?! |
| 18:30.15 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@91-114-184-170.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 18:31.13 | TAsn | finally shr with unicode |
| 18:31.18 | TAsn | i'll tell them! |
| 18:31.34 | PaulFertser | Ahahah |
| 18:32.26 | TAsn | PaulFertser, I'm so happy!!!! ;] |
| 18:32.29 | TAsn | man |
| 18:32.31 | TAsn | finally! |
| 18:32.48 | TAsn | after i'll send the e rtl patch |
| 18:32.55 | TAsn | my life will be a lot easier!!! |
| 18:32.56 | TAsn | ;] |
| 18:33.08 | PaulFertser | TAsn: i'm so happy cause today i found my friends, they're in my head... |
| 18:33.16 | TAsn | hehe |
| 18:33.20 | TAsn | just thought about that myself |
| 18:33.21 | TAsn | ;] |
| 18:33.23 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rf1de0ae29da3 10/libfsoframework/fsoframework/ (fsoframework-2.0.gir fsoframework-2.0.vapi transport.vala): fsoframework: transport: add setDelegates to Transport interface |
| 18:33.24 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r77cac891a35f 10/fsogsmd/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): fsogsmd: open serial transport and enqueue a test command |
| 18:33.37 | *** join/#openmoko agg1n1 (n=jan@static-87-245-36-92.teleos-web.de) |
| 18:33.50 | PaulFertser | TAsn: (e rtl) do you have something in the works? |
| 18:33.56 | TAsn | not in the works |
| 18:33.57 | TAsn | done |
| 18:33.57 | TAsn | ;] |
| 18:33.59 | TAsn | I'm using it |
| 18:34.00 | TAsn | ;] |
| 18:34.10 | TAsn | well not 100% |
| 18:34.13 | PaulFertser | Wow |
| 18:34.14 | TAsn | though 99% |
| 18:34.18 | TAsn | rtl works |
| 18:34.24 | TAsn | though auto alignment doesn't, yet. |
| 18:34.35 | PaulFertser | TAsn: why doesn't you use plain old english for SMSes instead? ;) |
| 18:34.39 | TAsn | that'll require a big change. |
| 18:34.59 | TAsn | PaulFertser, girls find that patronizing and annoying. |
| 18:35.08 | PaulFertser | lol |
| 18:36.26 | *** join/#openmoko [-zeno-] (n=zeno@host118-91-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:37.22 | TAsn | I'm building a pack to do everything automatically. ;] |
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| 18:40.47 | TAsn | raster, btw, PaulFertser and I solved it if you are interested ;] |
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| 19:00.07 | TAsn | PaulFertser, I want to make a wiki entry, got a name suggestion? |
| 19:01.05 | PaulFertser | TAsn: configuring_utf8_locale? |
| 19:01.23 | TAsn | not catchy enough ;] |
| 19:01.40 | *** join/#openmoko dvarnes (n=davidv@203-206-128-239.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 19:01.52 | PaulFertser | TAsn: the ultimate fix to all utf8 issues |
| 19:01.54 | b0ef | ehlo |
| 19:01.57 | b0ef | is bluetooth supposed to work on shr-unstable? |
| 19:02.07 | PaulFertser | Yes |
| 19:02.11 | TAsn | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Localization |
| 19:02.14 | TAsn | how is this? |
| 19:02.37 | TAsn | PaulFertser, "The answer, to life, unicode and everything" sounds better |
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| 19:02.55 | PaulFertser | TAsn: yep :) |
| 19:03.00 | b0ef | PaulFertser: any page that is supposed to be specific for shr? - I run hcitool inq and it reports no devices |
| 19:03.28 | PaulFertser | b0ef: you need to turn on bluetooth first |
| 19:03.42 | PaulFertser | b0ef: shr-setting probably has a gui way to do it. |
| 19:04.40 | b0ef | PaulFertser: right, I'll try to find that; thanks.. |
| 19:04.52 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.171.16.125) |
| 19:04.57 | PaulFertser | b0ef: or you can directly use mdbus to use odeviced methods |
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| 19:07.23 | dos1 | b0ef: if you had suspended your neo, bt won't work |
| 19:07.30 | dos1 | b0ef: it's some kernel problem i think... |
| 19:08.18 | PaulFertser | dos1: it was fixed at some point |
| 19:08.30 | PaulFertser | dos1: iirc |
| 19:08.54 | dos1 | PaulFertser: with kernel from 1 april it still didn't worked |
| 19:09.08 | PaulFertser | dos1: :( |
| 19:10.01 | b0ef | maybe it was an april fools kernel |
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| 19:15.07 | *** join/#openmoko Serdar (n=Serdar@wwwmail.uni-duesseldorf.de) |
| 19:15.13 | Serdar | hi |
| 19:15.38 | TAsn | PaulFertser, does it work for you? |
| 19:15.43 | TAsn | (try inserting a text{ |
| 19:15.54 | TAsn | for some reason not all the keys are working for me atm, only some. |
| 19:15.56 | TAsn | weird shit. ;] |
| 19:16.11 | PaulFertser | TAsn: i'm a Debian user, how am i supposed to test it? |
| 19:16.21 | TAsn | xev |
| 19:16.25 | TAsn | oh, nvm. |
| 19:16.35 | lindi- | dos1: that bt kernel bug has been fixed |
| 19:16.43 | lindi- | b0ef: ^ |
| 19:17.20 | b0ef | lindi-: ah, nice, thanks |
| 19:18.04 | *** join/#openmoko weirdedout (n=gonePost@220.253-207-48.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 19:19.26 | PaulFertser | lindi-: i see no bt-related commits since the 1st april. And dos1 says that it didn't work with the 1st april kernel. |
| 19:21.08 | dos1 | PaulFertser, lindi-: i will check again, maybe it was another problem or with frameworkd |
| 19:21.24 | PaulFertser | dos1: yeah, it'd be nice to know for sure |
| 19:22.25 | lindi- | PaulFertser: different branch? |
| 19:22.42 | PaulFertser | lindi-: shr-unstable uses andy-tracking head everytime the image is built. |
| 19:23.09 | lindi- | PaulFertser: maybe that's a new regression then |
| 19:24.46 | TAsn | PaulFertser, here for some reason only a fem keys work. |
| 19:24.49 | TAsn | few* |
| 19:24.58 | b0ef | mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmartphone/Device/PowerControl/Bluetooth org.freesmartphone.Device.PowerControl.SetPower 1 |
| 19:25.04 | b0ef | this is not right?!? |
| 19:25.04 | *** part/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 19:25.28 | TAsn | I know the reason though. |
| 19:25.30 | PaulFertser | b0ef: no, it should be odeviced |
| 19:25.40 | PaulFertser | lindi-: yes, looks like that, i can reproduce it. |
| 19:26.04 | b0ef | PaulFertser: right, thanks |
| 19:26.20 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal (n=azaghal@68.225.178.212.adsl.dyn.beotel.net) |
| 19:26.40 | b0ef | right, still nothing with hciconfig after that command; I'll try to reboot it, then |
| 19:27.46 | PaulFertser | b0ef: yes, after reboot it should work. |
| 19:30.45 | *** join/#openmoko esapete (n=esa-petr@88.193.113.40) |
| 19:32.44 | b0ef | hmm, nope |
| 19:33.23 | PaulFertser | b0ef: then it's a new regression, thanks for reporting :) |
| 19:33.34 | b0ef | damn;) |
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| 19:42.36 | lindi- | PaulFertser: bug report time then :) |
| 19:44.13 | PaulFertser | lindi-: or debug |
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| 20:01.13 | cnwdup | Hello |
| 20:03.39 | DocScrutinizer | moin |
| 20:08.27 | *** join/#openmoko crib (n=chris@port-92-202-51-112.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 20:10.22 | *** join/#openmoko KenYoung (n=Ken@pool-151-199-57-180.bos.east.verizon.net) |
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| 20:14.15 | TAsn | PaulFertser, I think I made a working package ;] |
| 20:14.19 | TAsn | oh, wait, you don't use shr |
| 20:14.22 | PaulFertser | TAsn: congrats :) |
| 20:14.23 | TAsn | I wanted you to test ;] |
| 20:14.39 | TAsn | (since my installation is full of stuff I did manually...) |
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| 20:28.46 | cnwdup | When trying to build a cross compiling plattform from the scratch what target architecture one has to set? |
| 20:29.07 | cnwdup | I don't know how the triplet is composed (any suggestions where I can read up about that?). |
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| 20:33.32 | DocScrutinizer | cnwdup: #openmoko-cdevel |
| 20:33.44 | cnwdup | DocScrutinizer, thanks. |
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| 20:34.35 | *** part/#openmoko dos1 (n=dos1@unaffiliated/dos1) |
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| 20:38.23 | TAsn | hey, does X try to read xorg.conf in shr |
| 20:38.24 | TAsn | ? |
| 20:41.33 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive_ (n=goxboxli@204.84-48-126.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:45.14 | PaulFertser | TAsn: i think kdrive ignores xorg.conf |
| 20:45.26 | DocScrutinizer | TAsn: supply a crap-filled one and see if it barfs? |
| 20:45.42 | PaulFertser | TAsn: or strace ;) |
| 20:45.47 | TAsn | DocScrutinizer, good idea, though nvm now. ;] |
| 20:45.50 | DocScrutinizer | or strace :) |
| 20:47.40 | *** part/#openmoko dyf (n=ad@wcpguelp492edinburgh.grokspots.com) |
| 20:47.40 | TAsn | finally! |
| 20:47.40 | TAsn | man, illume keyboard has a very weird behavior! |
| 20:49.38 | *** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 20:55.17 | TAsn | one would expect it would just ignore the keyboard layout and do as it pleases, since it's keyboards are not layout related |
| 20:55.21 | TAsn | though it doesn't. ;] |
| 20:55.31 | TAsn | that's the main issue. |
| 20:55.47 | TAsn | well it should ignore only if it's the sole user. |
| 20:59.10 | TAsn | oh, actually it does, though there's something wrong with that. ;\ |
| 20:59.36 | astrocub | no more openmoko? http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/04/228240&art_pos=4 |
| 21:00.09 | DocScrutinizer | fud |
| 21:00.23 | SpeedEvil | astrocub: that may be slight overkill - but it's certainly gone through a massive change which isn't quite clear yet. |
| 21:00.36 | SpeedEvil | Involving sacking large numbers of people, whihc is usually a bad thing. |
| 21:00.50 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 21:00.55 | *** join/#openmoko m0nt0 (n=monto@151.57.207.13) |
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| 21:14.36 | KenYoung | astrocub, THere's an interesting talk by Sean Moss-Pults at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFuwhPXYxxI&feature=PlayList&p=96FB31DA6E4012DA&index=1 |
| 21:16.12 | TAsn | phew. I'm tired. |
| 21:16.12 | TAsn | ;] |
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