IRC log for #openmoko on 20090330

00:00.25*** join/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@78-105-140-204.zone3.bethere.co.uk)
00:03.04Psiive done some more testing and i only get the dfu error -110 at the end of flashing on the 22mb fso-console-image-gta01.jffs2
00:03.34Psiif i flash a full 56MB shr image it flashes fine
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00:43.02Psithis is getting annoying, no fso console images will flash
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00:48.28Psidoes changing  bootcmd so it boots from sd card by default effect flashing the nand in any way?
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01:14.02DocScrutinizernope
01:14.48Psiits odd, it wont flash small images
01:14.51Psibut large ones work fine
01:18.42DocScrutinizerstrange
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01:23.11Psican you run dfu-util on the neo to flash itself, from a distro running on the sdcard?
01:23.55roolyhahaha
01:23.56roolyno
01:24.27mjrhowever, you can write to the flash in other ways from a system running on the sd card
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01:24.38mjrfor instance, you can, you know, mount it ;]
01:25.00Psihm
01:25.11mjryou should be able to dump an image to it but I don't know if dd is sufficient in this case, since there's those extra bits
01:27.37Psiim going to try flashing from a different pc
01:31.54DaveRooly, your head doing any better, man?
01:33.42slaxxinif its not an alchol headache i might can help
01:33.58Daveheh
01:34.00slaxxinthrough the internet
01:34.14Dave-_-
01:34.38slaxxinu need someone to doit for ya
01:36.00slaxxinpinch between yo thumb an index finger hard enough to make it hurt a coue times
01:37.17roolyDave: a little
01:37.33roolyaint pinching himself nowhere
01:37.40Davehaha, that's what I said :p
01:38.16roolyis watching speed racer again
01:38.22Davehaha
01:43.55ndnihilcaffiene helps headaches
01:44.00ndnihilas does vicodin
01:44.11ndnihil<-- gets chronic migraines
01:44.18roolyis well aware of the caffine connection
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03:13.42Daveretracile :)
03:14.46retracileDave!
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07:09.19methril|workmorning
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07:20.00ndnihilman, this numpty physics game is like crack+crayons
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07:32.43Hopscotchgood morning
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10:12.25huskutylsää
10:13.21huskuups., wrong window :S
10:13.49husku(finnish) tylsää=boring (english)
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10:32.49balrog-kunswitches back to gta01
10:33.46balrog-kunah, this fast bootloader
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10:36.25PaulFertserbalrog-kun: are you the one who implemented cpufreq btw?
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10:36.56balrog-kunPaulFertser: no, that would be cesarb i think
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10:37.51PaulFertserbalrog-kun: ah, thanks for the info. It'd be interesting to know if cpufreq brings any significant improvements wrt power consumption.
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12:48.20CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rb2eed938d8a0 10/fsogsmd/ (8 files in 6 dirs): fsogsmd: testing infrastructure
12:48.21CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rd9550e6ee182 10/README: README: link to wiki
12:48.22CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r9b5df86edae8 10/libfsoframework/vapi/Makefile.am: fsoframework: add Makefile.am in vapi dir
12:48.23CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * ra9582cf63858 10/fsogsmd/tests/.gitignore: fsogsmd: add test binary to .gitignore
12:48.24CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r87dce6beb4c5 10/fsogsmd/ (src/lib/atcommand.vala tests/testatcommand.vala): fsogsmd: AtPlusCPIN
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13:03.53moo---hoy
13:06.10Davemoo
13:07.57PaulFertserDave: do you have a Dave nature?
13:08.14tig|Dave!
13:10.08PaulFertserHaha, i hardlocked Dave :)
13:10.12Dave¬_¬
13:11.27tig|hmm time to reflash my freerunner I think,  it has been stablish for a while on SHR testing but wifi seems to be a bit flaky is the current unstable totally broken at the moment?
13:11.28PaulFertserDave: if you don't have one, you're not a true Dave, you know.
13:11.52Dave~_~
13:11.52aptSTOP DOING THAT!
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13:14.43PaulFertsertig|: wifi still has a load of problems which probably can't be really solved without upgrading firmware which is not possible (hopefully yet). Atheros admitted that they can reproduce some bugs, but they don't suggest what to do next. At least Werner is preparing a method to promptly restart the driver in case of some obvious malfunction, not that it can solve compatibility issues, but it can somewhat improve stability. So, if wifi is your only con
13:15.11PaulFertser(promptly and automatically)
13:16.20tig|so it looks like sit tight then for the moment :)
13:16.47PaulFertserDave: "My eyes are wide open \ Cant get to sleep \ One thing Im sure of \ Im in at the deep freeze"
13:18.59WeissPaulFertser: the end of your sentence ("if wifi is your only con...") got cut off for me..
13:19.37PaulFertserWeiss: oh, that's probably the script wasn't auto-loaded.
13:19.50PaulFertserconcern, probably you won't get much by upgrading to unstable.
13:20.04tig|thanks PaulFertser :)
13:20.14Dave:o
13:20.23PaulFertser(not that my words make enough sense anyway)
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13:43.34DocScrutinizerPaulFertser: moinmoin! how's live?
13:43.57DocScrutinizerPaulFertser: no classes today?
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14:16.32Weissmmm, touchscreen jitter
14:17.02Weisspoking and empty part of the screen just started OpenMooCow, which accordingly moo-ed at my office-mates..
14:17.06Weissan*
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15:03.45panickingHi all
15:05.46johnsu01raster: Where does the e17 battery module get its info from? On my FR debian install the meter never goes over 33%.
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15:10.12slaxxinmy cow is silent
15:11.34johnsu01is something in fso playing with my clock? I just updated with ntpdate-debian because the date was 3 days in the future, then a few minutes later, I look and it's 3 days in the past
15:11.42CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03ptitjes 07libfso-glib * rbda8e9493c12 10/ (ChangeLog Makefile.am autogen.sh gitlog-to-changelog):
15:11.42CIA-54freesmartphone.org: Generate Changelog from git log (script from Jim Meyering)
15:11.42CIA-54freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Didier 'Ptitjes <ptitjes@free.fr>
15:12.03Weissslaxxin: modprobe snd-pcm-oss possibly, depending on kernel config
15:12.13*** part/#openmoko TravellingGuy (n=Travelli@s142-179-145-108.ab.hsia.telus.net)
15:12.16Weiss(this is SDL's fault :(..)
15:12.30slaxxinok thanks
15:12.46Weissor if you're on Debian, there's a weirdness in SDL which we haven't figured out yet..
15:12.56Weiss(audio mixing callback never gets called)
15:13.12slaxxinshr unstable 2.6.28 r-3
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15:13.51Weissshr-testing here
15:14.27slaxxinswitched from r-4 an the wsod went away
15:14.38johnsu01Weiss: I think I solved this issue on Debian
15:14.45*** join/#openmoko viktor__ (n=viktor@residence-232-134.mschaffer.ualberta.ca)
15:14.49johnsu01Weiss: are you using pygame?
15:14.57Weissi've never had a WSoD, except when it was my fault when screwing around with Glamo
15:15.06Weissjohnsu01: nope, it uses SDL directly..
15:15.35johnsu01wow the wiki is loading slowly
15:15.41slaxxinv6 gta02?
15:16.03johnsu01Weiss: well, export SDL_AUDIOMIXER=alsa might help
15:16.05Weissslaxxin: think so, or V5..
15:16.12Weisshere's the Debian bug report: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=520411
15:16.48slaxxinwatch out the botmaster is winding up
15:17.02johnsu01Weiss: ah, okay
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15:20.03slaxxinmoooooOOOOOOO
15:20.27slaxxinthe cow is no longer silent
15:20.55Zorkmanbut does it give milk?
15:21.14slaxxinmmmmmmm
15:21.55slaxxinhave to try it next time
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15:54.24frankS2is the sound qual in the phone shit still? or shall i try to find it and upgrade?
15:54.37frankS2or just leave it be in the closet
15:55.38mmontourfrankS2: it needs hardware rework to get rid of the GSM buzzing. There is now a software fix that turns on echo suppression in the Calypso chipset.
15:55.39Weissalways been fine for me :)
15:56.02frankS2mmontour: oh hardware, i see, blargh
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15:57.39mwesterIf you mean sound quality in the mp3/music playback, that is another hardware fix.
16:00.15frankS2i mean both
16:00.17frankS2lol
16:00.37*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.196.61.1)
16:00.46frankS2well as a phone its shit, as a device its cool
16:01.38*** join/#openmoko Digital_Pioneer (n=digitalp@192.133.129.3)
16:03.08DocScrutinizerfrankS2: >> or shall i try to find it and upgrade?<< please rephrase
16:03.32*** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (n=AntonTak@poolofdespair.net)
16:03.45frankS2if any new software is up
16:03.46frankS2firmware
16:04.43DocScrutinizersound issues are 1)buzz, 2)echo, 3)low-bass-vol on headset
16:05.00DocScrutinizerfrankS2: what specifically is your question?
16:05.50DocScrutinizerfrankS2: echo is considered fixed by most recent sw
16:06.32DocScrutinizerfrankS2: buzz and bass are two distinct hardware issues that won't fix via sw.
16:06.51DocScrutinizerfrankS2: for buzz here is a SOP-paper and buzzfix parties
16:07.47DocScrutinizerfrankS2: for bass there are some prototype rework descriptions to be found in wiki, but no tested rework SOP "for the masses"
16:07.56frankS2i see
16:08.00frankS2what about the battery
16:08.07frankS2i have a nokia from 2003 and it lasts like for ever
16:08.11DocScrutinizerwhat's about bat?
16:08.20frankS2and the openmoko lasts maybe for some hours
16:10.47*** part/#openmoko xiangfu (n=liuxiang@123.121.247.113)
16:11.14Weissat the moment for me, 16 hours of mostly standby uses roughly 33% of a battery
16:12.11Weissso that's about 48 hours of standby
16:12.28lindi-Weiss: what's current_now on resume?
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16:13.27max_posedonyes, gta02 use 23mAh during syspend
16:13.36max_posedon(according to my tests)
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16:15.11lindi-max_posedon: you mean 23 mA?
16:16.10max_posedonyes
16:16.32*** join/#openmoko SomeT (n=somet@cpc1-leic13-0-0-cust815.leic.cable.ntl.com)
16:16.38SomeThello
16:16.40SomeTi need some advice
16:16.57SomeTi flashed my fr with FYP yesterdat
16:17.01SomeTi mean yesterday
16:17.16Weisslindi-: 39937
16:17.23SomeTand it is really slow, especially when I open internet browser Fennic
16:17.24max_posedonbut as I know, gsm modem have "deep suspend" mode, which is disabled now
16:17.29SomeTit crashes
16:17.39SomeTi flashed it with neotool
16:17.51SomeTand i get two errors coming up saying warning when i boot the phone
16:18.01SomeTto that of which i am yet to write them down
16:18.12lindi-max_posedon: but how much does it consume when gsm is off completely?
16:18.28SomeTbut could it be the fact that i flashed it with neotool, the two errors upon boot or could it be the fact fyp is a bit crap and slow anyway?
16:18.41max_posedonlindi-, I don't know
16:18.43SomeTanyone know?
16:19.11lindi-SomeT: do you have source packages for fennic?
16:19.24max_posedonI also tested "neo on, screen off" - 100mA, "neo on, screen on" - ~220mA, "neo on, screen on, gsm on" - ~300mA
16:20.41SomeTsource packages?
16:20.53lindi-SomeT: yeah, *diff.gz and *.dsc
16:21.01lindi-SomeT: and *orig.tar.gz
16:21.13DocScrutinizermax_posedon: that would result in some 50h of standby time :) not that bad
16:21.28shellevil?
16:21.37shellevil1200/100
16:21.41DocScrutinizershellevil: ??
16:21.47shelleviloh
16:21.48DocScrutinizer1200/23
16:22.08shellevilyeah - 30mA or so is what I see with all off but hte GSM modem
16:22.29shellevilsometimes fails to backscroll enough.
16:22.33DocScrutinizersleep4 or sleep2?
16:22.35max_posedonDocScrutinizer, not bad, but I don't know what is "deep suspend" gsm mode
16:22.38SomeTnah
16:22.43max_posedonwhich is disabled in shr by default
16:22.48SomeTwhy would that make a difference to the whole phone running slow?
16:23.04max_posedonand is it possible enable it, may be neo will be able live much longer
16:23.09DocScrutinizermax_posedon: deepsleep_gsm is AT%sleep=4
16:23.32SomeT?
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16:25.37lindi-SomeT: hard to say without source
16:25.47DaveDoc, but does it wake up? :p
16:26.02SomeTit is FYP
16:26.09SomeTthe whole thing runs slow
16:26.12SomeTdistro
16:26.17SomeTis this normal?
16:26.20max_posedonDave, as I know, it will, but not always)
16:26.35Dave:|
16:26.54max_posedon(as I remember it was main reason, for diabling it for shr/fso)
16:27.04Daveyeah ~_~
16:27.31max_posedonbut I don't know anystatus with latest calypso firmware
16:28.29WeissSomeT: run "top" or "htop", and see if anything's obviously eating CPU
16:28.38SomeTtop?
16:28.40SomeThtop?
16:28.46SomeTsorry im still a bit of a newb to linux
16:28.50SomeTi used to use it years ago
16:28.54WeissSomeT: also, i see a noticable slowdown when something is thrashing the "disk"
16:29.14SomeTi put a new sd card in it the other day?
16:29.16Weisstop is a utility which shows how much memory/CPU processes are using, in a table ranked by CPU
16:29.31SomeTits like windows task manager in a sense?
16:29.54Weissyep
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16:30.02Weissexcept it runs on a terminal
16:30.19Weisshtop is a fancier version which comes with SHR/FSO, but plain top should be available on both
16:30.20SomeTah ok
16:30.31SomeTis FYP a crap distro?
16:30.43SomeTi have been hitting my head trying to figure out which is best
16:30.47SomeTtried google android at first
16:30.50SomeTbut to complex
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16:31.39shellevilI tried to compile slackware.
16:31.43shellevilBut failed.
16:31.43SomeTto install
16:31.48SomeThaha
16:32.07Weissi'm using SHR-testing at the moment. it's a bit basic, but quite reliable for me and works as a good compromise between stability and having something modern (e.g. which copes with a 2.6.28+ kernel..)
16:32.32SomeTcan i install it using neotool?
16:32.56saracenI can't use SHR anymore, I can't recieve SMS. It just stopped working, and sometimes the "messages" application crashes
16:33.24SomeTto many messages perhaps
16:33.32SomeTi used to have that problem with an old nokia phone
16:33.37saracenNope. I removed them, when it was working
16:33.48SomeTreboot t!
16:33.51SomeThaha
16:33.53saracenDone many times :P
16:34.59*** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84.226.236.237)
16:35.19SomeTgotta go
16:35.20SomeTcya
16:35.22DocScrutinizermax_posedon: Dave : sleep=[24] doesn't relate to wake from suspend in any way
16:38.39*** join/#openmoko apt (i=ibot@rikers.org)
16:38.39*** topic/#openmoko is Users of Openmoko Hardware | Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org/ | Before asking read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
16:38.56Chocksapt bounce DocScrutinizer
16:38.57aptACTION bounces DocScrutinizer till DocScrutinizer burps
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16:57.16DocScrutinizermax_posedon: still 23mA is somewhat too much for suspend with gsm standby in sleep4. Should be down to 5..10mA
16:57.51shellevilsleep4 keeps RAM alove?
16:58.16max_posedonDocScrutinizer, May be, I don't know, I just tested current shr
16:58.19*** join/#openmoko raspoutine (n=neil@vau06-1-89-85-32-52.dsl.club-internet.fr)
16:58.31PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: hehe, my classes are only on fridays, dayjob today. Did nothing useful for freerunner, not much useful for the job. I guess it's ok, that's how my life goes.
16:58.53Dave-_-
16:58.57DavePoor Paul
16:59.10Chocks:o
16:59.14*** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.78.178.63)
16:59.17DaveJoerg, yeah, that's what I was thinking
16:59.23*** join/#openmoko eolson (n=eolson@anlextwls097-000.wl.anl-external.org)
16:59.25DocScrutinizersleep4 suspends gsm to a short sleep of ~2sec then short rcvr on and back to sleep again
16:59.30DaveI was quite impressed with the palm in that respect :D
16:59.51*** join/#openmoko tessier_ (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines)
16:59.54tessier_Hello all
17:00.02DaveHello sex-machine
17:00.13tessier_:)
17:00.17Dave;)
17:00.21tessier_Dave: Good morning you big stud!
17:00.27DaveHowdy ;D
17:00.43Chockssexonnastick
17:00.50tessier_Chocks: Yes?
17:00.55Chocksjust sayin'
17:01.07Dave:p
17:01.13tessier_I know, I know. I get it all the time. No autographs, please.
17:01.34*** join/#openmoko esk_ (i=esk@esk.cs.usu.edu)
17:01.49Chocksah, it's you.  how's the job hunt?
17:01.51tessier_So how's openmoko coming along? I have a freerunner which is 9 months old and sitting around doing nothing because the software wasn't really usable for a day to day phone. But I wanted to support the project.
17:01.56tessier_We getting any closer?
17:01.59DocScrutinizershellevil: our data for gms-standby in sleep4 is sth like 4mA iirc
17:02.09Chockshaha.
17:02.24tessier_Chocks: The job hunt is slow as one might expect.
17:02.28Chockshum.
17:02.36Davetessier, welcome to the club :D
17:02.46tessier_I've flashed the phone up once, played with it for a while. Don't really have time for development work as I have other things going on that pay my bills for now.
17:03.04ChocksFWIW: you get slightly more google hits than I do.
17:03.29tessier_But my current day to day phone isn't cutting it. Really wish I could switch to the freerunner. I am tempted to go iphone but...I dunno. It just feels like selling out. :)
17:03.37tessier_And Android is Linux but not as hackable/open as the freerunner.
17:03.53lindi-tessier_: android is software, freerunner is hardware
17:03.58tessier_I really don't want to do java app dev just to add some really trivial thing to my phone.
17:04.00lindi-tessier_: software is more hackable than hardware
17:04.15tessier_And Android is Linux but not as hackable/open as the openmoko software.
17:04.20shellevilDocScrutinizer: yeah p that's more like it.
17:04.30lindi-tessier_: ah but i don't use openmoko distro anyway :)
17:04.30*** join/#openmoko ^wd^ (n=wd@82.119.147.190)
17:05.04shellevilwants openmoko on his printer.
17:05.23shellevil(It can print from PDF on SD, so there must be some smarts in there)
17:05.26*** join/#openmoko toi (n=toi@d54C2AAB7.access.telenet.be)
17:05.43lindi-shellevil: nmap it
17:05.50shellevilpoint
17:05.54tessier_I guess it's sounding like I should just plop down the bucks for an iphone then.
17:06.02Dave:[
17:06.08Davewow
17:06.21vininimplop down the bucks for android developers =X
17:06.28shellevilit's a lexmark all-in-one thing. At least it can - worst case - be used by simply printing to SD in PDF. And can scan the same way. Haven't investigated the wifi.
17:07.11shellevilSilly, but half price.
17:07.18Daveheh
17:08.34AntonTakkhey Dave
17:10.35DaveGreetings!
17:12.40FirefighterBlu3tessier, what doesn't it do that you need?
17:12.48*** join/#openmoko jonsmith1982 (n=jon@82-38-88-58.cable.ubr01.donc.blueyonder.co.uk)
17:12.52DaveProbably lots of trivial things :)
17:13.10Davea menu item here, a button there, an indicator somewhere :]
17:13.21AntonTakkgot a g1 to replace his daily phone, still hoping for om goodness thou
17:13.58PaulFertserAntonTakk: have you already rooted it?
17:14.03PaulFertserAntonTakk: are you going to try FSO on it?
17:14.16AntonTakkPaulFertser: fso can run on it?
17:14.37FirefighterBlu3well.  i can make and take calls, make and take sms.  my contacts work and my phone log works.  there are things that are broken like timestamps being nonexistant for sms records and not using TZ for voicemail messages and VM records have broken From entries
17:15.00PaulFertserAntonTakk: some porting should be done to use its modem and alsa driver, but it already has a functioning kernel, which is a great advantage.
17:15.17FirefighterBlu3the gps works 99% great, wifi works 99% great, gprs works with my shell script
17:15.19AntonTakkand no, i need a phone i can rely on for work, and the g1 has it's anoyances (no decent calendar applet for the desktop), but it sends and receives calls all day with no problems
17:15.42FirefighterBlu3i do want a calendar app, 'tis true
17:15.45DaveWait until May :)
17:15.53FirefighterBlu3and there isn't a working email client
17:16.21AntonTakkPaulFertser: wouldn't you need the dev phone 1 for that? to get around the signed os image requirement on the g1?
17:17.37*** join/#openmoko Digital_Pioneer (n=digitalp@192.133.129.18)
17:17.48DaveThe mobile phone world sucks.
17:18.03PaulFertserAntonTakk: do you have a recent european or an US/UK version?
17:18.18PaulFertserDave: to generalize: the world sucks.
17:18.25FirefighterBlu3it's a bit buggery when i answer a call and it takes another 15 seconds for the call to actually get answered.  sms ringtones and call ringtones seem to fight for priority because they chunk really badly
17:18.29Dave\o/
17:18.37FirefighterBlu3but my phone does work well enough for day to day use
17:19.21*** join/#openmoko nio__ (n=nio@86.92.255.117)
17:19.27AntonTakkPaulFertser: pretty sure it's a us version, since i got it from the tmobile kiosk in the mall with my contract
17:19.51Davehahahaha
17:19.57Daveassy
17:20.16PaulFertserAntonTakk: then rooting shouldn't be a problem: http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:XvRP0DDVjCoJ:forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D455860+spl+bootloader+dream&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk
17:20.24AntonTakki was thinking about getting the unlocked dev phone 1, but at 425 and no access to protected apps in the market, i decided not to
17:20.26PaulFertser(google cache as the original is not available atm)
17:21.17tessier_FirefighterBlu3: Sounds like I should give it a try then. I really just want to be able to make and receive calls and SMS messages reliably plus browse the web/get email via gsm or 802.11.
17:21.42PaulFertsertessier_: i use my freerunner as the only cell phone from November.
17:21.54FirefighterBlu3well, all that works well and good (i use dillo for browsing) except for email
17:22.04tessier_I hope to be able to hack it to download my podcasts via rss feeds every night while within range of my 802.11 access point at home and then play them in my car. That would be awesome.
17:22.16tessier_What's the problem with email?
17:22.20PaulFertsertessier_: gprs and wifi (with most APs) works to surf the web. Calls and smses are working too (not always without problems, but still).
17:22.26FirefighterBlu3none of the current SHR email programs work for SSL/imap based email receipt
17:22.32FirefighterBlu3i can send ssl/smtp just fine
17:22.39tessier_SHR?
17:22.56tessier_I guess I could do without SSL/imap although I don't like to.
17:22.59lindi-shr is a distro
17:23.11tessier_I could even use webmail if the web browser is good enough. squirrelmail is pretty basic.
17:23.15FirefighterBlu3SHR is the recommended distro for freerunner users that are fairly new to the freerunner
17:23.27FirefighterBlu3sounds like it'd work for you
17:23.39tessier_I forget which two distro's I've tried.
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17:24.13PaulFertserAntonTakk: please don't forget to inform about the results of your rooting. I guess it shouldn't be hard, as you most probably have the old version which can be easily downgraded to the fancy root-console-on-today-screen one.
17:24.18tessier_FDOM was the last thing I flashed it with iirc.
17:24.49tessier_A shame FreeRunner is unlikely to ever have turn by turn GPS. But I can live without that. The antenna is so small that it barely works anyway.
17:25.04tessier_Even in my Motorola Z9 the GPS is almost useless. It's always 10 seconds behind in driving directions which means a lot of missed turns.
17:25.05PaulFertsertessier_: ever heard of Navit?
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17:25.41tessier_No
17:25.41PaulFertsertessier_: also you can easily attach an external gps antenna if you're not satisfied with the internal's performance.
17:25.46tessier_Just googled it...
17:25.52AntonTakkZombie, Run! should be ported to the fr
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17:25.56tessier_PaulFertser: I might have to do that. Keep it permanently mounted in the car...
17:26.24tessier_agps? Hmm...sounds like things have improved quite a bit in the GPS area.
17:26.42tessier_Last I used it was exactly during the time the GPS antenna interference bug with writing to the flash was being found.
17:27.08Daveheh yeah
17:27.10Davegood times ... :)
17:27.15tessier_That's another thing I want to do...be able to record lat/long and a note quickly and easily. Especially for client locations, good restaurants, etc.
17:27.34Davetangogps!
17:27.41tessier_Dave: I was actually quite heartened and impressed with the way it was handled. Shit happens. It was discovered and fixed. I have nothing but admiration for the openmoko guys.
17:27.55Dave:D
17:27.58PaulFertserAntonTakk: one of the instructions on rooting HTC Dream: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/blog.php?b=147
17:28.00Davehugs tessier
17:28.24PaulFertserAntonTakk: really, no need to buy a dev phone as you can use a modified bootloader and load both signed and unsigned images.
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17:28.57DavePaul: Hot :D
17:29.01tessier_Dave: How are things as far as updates? Does dpkg or whatever openmoko uses actually work now so I don't have to re-flash all the time to get updates/fixes?
17:29.29DaveYeah
17:29.49DaveIt's been working like that for quite some time, though not without it's occasional hiccups, but you rarely have to reflash :)
17:29.57DaveUnless *you* break something, on your own :p
17:31.24tessier_It definitely didn't work last summer when I got mine which is one of the reasons I kinda stalled on using it. Figuring out how to flash wasn't too hard but enough of a hassle that I don't do it often and now I've forgotten so I get to figure it out again.
17:31.45DaveBelieve me, I remember :D
17:31.47DaveI was there!
17:31.51Dave:P
17:32.07tessier_Navit looks pretty awesome. If it really works or eventually works this will really give the other guys including iphone a run for their money.
17:32.42tessier_Anyone have any recommendations on a good external GPS antenna that works with Freerunner?
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17:33.51Zorkmantessier_: any gps antenna will do i think
17:36.07DaveYeah, I just saw some screenshots of the latest today, and I was a bit impressed how far it's come, myself.
17:36.29DaveZOrkman, roger that - even my coathanger contraption :)
17:36.39Davewhen I finally got the proper adapter built :P
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17:37.47Davetessier: check out the bottom of http://scap.linuxtogo.org/index.php?page=1
17:37.51ZorkmanDave: off course only when it's quality clothing
17:37.57Dave;D
17:37.59DaveIndeed
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17:42.06shelleviltess: navit is the _easy_ cheap bit.
17:42.46shellevilQuality freely available maps suitable for routing with all the appropriate hints built in are the horribly hard part.
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17:51.02Chocksmoo
17:51.14Chockstessier_: so, who you working for now?
17:51.29tessier_Chocks: Cutting Edge
17:51.41Chocksbut they're more like Blunt, Rusty, Edge?
17:51.45tessier_Chocks: A third-rate storage appliance vendor you have likely never heard of.
17:51.47tessier_Exactly.
17:52.04Chockshttp://www.cuttingedge.org/
17:52.11tessier_cuttedge.com actually
17:52.22tessier_They weren't cutting edge enough to buy the actual domain name when it was available.
17:52.23Chocksheh
17:52.49tessier_shellevil: So how are the quality freely available maps being generated?
17:53.11Chockscrowdsourcing
17:53.16tessier_shellevil: it seems like it should be possible to automatically generate them using data from the users....
17:53.36tessier_Pretty much everyone drives over the same places and you can tell which people drove on the same lanes/roads going to where etc.
17:54.22tessier_I would love to participate in something like that. I would happily share the lat/long of all of the points along my travels.
17:54.41Chockstessier_: yes, so we were looking for someone, but we're hopelessly disorgnized, and we kinda stopped.  The truth is, we're actually more productive without the guy that left.
17:54.55tessier_Chocks: Looking for a Linux guy?
17:55.01Chocksyessir.
17:55.12tessier_That's a bad sign when you are more productive without the guy who left... :)
17:55.35tessier_Chocks: My resume can be found online at http://tracyreed.org/the-resume-of-tracy-r-reed if anyone over there would like to take a look.
17:55.39Chocksyessir
17:55.53Chocksbut I'm not sure if I want to be upstaged by someone with more Google exposure than me ;-)
17:55.57tessier_I could be available in 2-3 weeks. I always give my former employer the easiest transition possible.
17:55.58tessier_hahaha
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17:57.01tessier_And we just wrapped up a big project and are about to begin a new project. I'm hoping something comes along soon before I get too far down the road with the new project.
17:57.15CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03ptitjes 07libfso-glib * re2a9fbe374b9 10/src/Makefile.am:
17:57.15CIA-54freesmartphone.org: Use new --gir valac option
17:57.15CIA-54freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Didier 'Ptitjes <ptitjes@free.fr>
17:58.37Chockswe've just got a new sales person, so I don't know what the deal was.  Our big problem is not Linux knowledge per se, but the huge amount of time we have to devote to customer support.
17:58.56Chockssome of that is very complex networking setups.  
17:59.14ChocksSome of the clowns we have talked to didn't know what a subnet was.
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18:03.07Chocksdammit.  Google street view is not _quite_ detailed enough to make out street numbers on the curb.
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18:06.46Chocksmoo
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18:07.46shelleviltessier_: first start out with 100000 users...
18:08.05Chocksmix, wait 10 years. voila!  Google
18:08.23shelleviltessier_: plus - it doesn't get you names, or ...
18:09.04tessier_shellevil: Much easier to program in the names later than to have to gather all of the data yourself.
18:09.18shellevilyou can't legally do anything with the streetview imagery other than go 'Oooh - I can see my house from here'.
18:09.45shellevilThere are _all_ sorts of cool thhings you can do in principle given adequate imagery.
18:09.46tessier_I use streetview sometimes to check out neighborhoods before I go there.
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18:10.31shellevilFor example, I did some numbers, and my local town would take about 200G (40000 people) to capture in enough detail to read housenumbers from the kerb, and perhaps 5-6 days.
18:11.02shellevilThis is with a device on a car, taking panoramas every 5m or so.
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18:11.38Chocksshellevil: well, that's almost the point.  In fact, I'm looking for rentals.
18:11.40shellevilThen there is all sorts of fun feature extraction you can do - again in principle.
18:11.53shellevilFrom streetsigns, to speed limits, to house numbers.
18:11.58shellevilrentals?
18:12.22Chocksmy landlord is selling (or trying to), so I have to move.  nice to try and look at in on Google first.
18:12.38shellevilah
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18:13.09Chockssometimes you can make up the curb numbers if you squint.  sometimes you can see them on houses.   most of the time, you actually have to drive there and see.
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18:13.56ChocksAnd for all kinds of reasons (mostly geographical), I'm limited to where I can move to.
18:14.37Chocksooh, I want a "duel master".  Does it come with the swords?
18:14.42shellevilyeah - I was looking at 2.5cm resolution out to 20m or so. - so 3000*1000 pixels or so should more or less work.
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18:15.57tessier_ponders a crowd-sourced streetview
18:16.06ChocksAnd the Google street number approximation is hopeless if it's a cul-de-sac.
18:16.07tessier_Unfortunately it takes special expensive hardware to do it right.
18:16.15Chockstessier_: what, people?
18:16.19tessier_You can't just have people walking around with cell phone cameras blasting away.
18:16.28shelleviltessier_: crowdsourced doesn't work so well.
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18:16.36Chockssure you can :p
18:16.37DocScrutinizerhehe
18:16.37shelleviltessier_: you need one consistent platform really.
18:16.48shelleviltessier_: and it's not _that_ expensive
18:16.55DocScrutinizerpicture-stich?
18:17.00shelleviltessier_: $800 or so, buying stuff.
18:17.07shellevilUnless you get silly.
18:17.11Chocksshellevil: yes, and yes. I met a guy with hardware for the census next year.  lots of planning is the major problem, really.  
18:17.27Chocksthe hardware itself was probably < $200, although very custom.
18:18.07DocScrutinizerprobably video would simplify things
18:18.17DocScrutinizercompared to photos
18:18.40shellevilSilly: https://framos.eu/news.html?&L=3&p=98
18:18.45shellevilvideo...
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18:19.00shellevilit's not quite as simple, yes, in some ways it helps
18:19.23Chockssweet.  50k fps
18:19.43shellevilAnyone want to buy me 24 of those?
18:19.49shellevil(8 views, RGB)
18:20.06shellevilActually, RGBI would be good, so make it a round 32.
18:20.11Chocks:o
18:20.11DocScrutinizermmpffffh
18:20.25Chocksthink of the pr0n!
18:20.34shellevilIIRC ~8000e each
18:24.59ndnihildamnit damnit sonofabitch
18:25.20ndnihillooks like VPN is blocked on at&t network
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18:31.51PaulFertserHey, new letter from Dieter wrt #1024 at -hardware!
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18:32.48ndnihilwho is dieter, and did he say anything cool?
18:34.24PaulFertserndnihil: it's the guy investigating #1024.
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18:34.34PaulFertserndnihil: everything he says is cool by definition.
18:34.50Chockssounds German
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18:39.00tessier_Dieter is the guy from Sprockets on SNL
18:39.05tessier_"TOUCH MY MONKEY!!!!"
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18:39.41Chocksis in a distinct minority, having never seen SNL
18:39.52ndnihilyou aren't missing anything
18:41.54ndnihilok, I give up
18:42.00ndnihilwhat is #1024?
18:42.07ndnihilnot seeing it in any of the tracs
18:42.32mmontourhttp://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024
18:43.05ndnihildoh
18:43.07mmontourdoes this still work?
18:43.11mmontour!ombug 1024
18:43.19cdbot2* * Bug 1024, Status: Unknown Error ()
18:43.25mmontourguess not.
18:44.26Chocksmmmmmontour
18:44.39tessier_SNL was good in the 80's through early 90's. After that it went downhill..
18:44.49tessier_Once all of the comedians gave up cocaine it just wasn't funny anymore.
18:44.58Chocksand went off to become big name actors
18:45.14Chocksor died
18:47.05Chockswonders about the other 8 jokers who got an OM through his 10-pack purchase.
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18:48.11Chockssome of them were pretty nutty.  On Tess had genuine geek cred :p
18:48.17Chockss/On/Only
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18:53.36ndnihilany suggestions on getting gps working? device appears to be there, but can't get a fix
18:53.52mmontourGo outside to an area with a good view of the sky
18:53.59ndnihiltried that
18:54.06ndnihilit was working at one point
18:54.18ndnihileven getting signal in here
18:54.43ndnihilthis place is like a faraday cage
18:54.46ndnihilmesh and plaster
18:55.14Chocksheh
18:55.29ChocksGPS takes forever to look IME, and often doesn't come back quicly after resume
18:55.59ndnihilit has been on for 10 hours, no suspend/resume
18:56.11Chockssounds bad ;-)
18:56.21ndnihilusb is plugged in
18:56.50ndnihilI thought it was the extra modules that made it work
18:56.59ndnihilbut after a re-flash and adding them again, no love
18:57.02Chockscertainly, the original kernel was really bad with it
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18:57.56ndnihilrunning shr testing
18:58.01ndnihilwith the extra modules
18:58.25Chocksslaps iptables
18:58.34Chockshe "nat" table is not intended for filtering, hence the use of DROP is deprecated and will permanently be disabled in the next iptables release
18:58.41ChocksI'll filter where I want, thanks :p
18:58.49ndnihilheheh
18:58.57Chocksdon't tell me how my router works.
18:59.12Chocksthat's my customers' job :p
18:59.28ndnihilplease tell me they're actual customers
18:59.33ndnihiland not newspeak for 'users'
18:59.41Chocksno, actual.
18:59.44ndnihilnew CIO is trying to get us to call users "customers"
18:59.49ndnihiland it pisses me off
18:59.51Chockssomeone of them paying lots of money.
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19:01.37Dave:o
19:02.03ChocksDave
19:02.16DaveAffirmative.
19:02.31ndnihilDave's not heeere mannn...
19:02.37DaveUggh
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19:09.48AntonTakkhehe - "You seriously overestimate our users" - IT mantra
19:10.44Dave:)
19:10.53Daveman
19:11.04Davethere was a time we were a dev-fighting duo :)
19:13.14ChocksThat's not the problem we face.  It's the customers overestimating themselves.
19:13.25Chockstime bandits.
19:26.44Davehahaha
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19:28.45Dave/o\
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19:28.46bazehas there been any news about the gta03 except the change of the name?
19:28.48Chocks<PROTECTED>
19:28.48ChocksDance Dave, dance!
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19:28.49BluesLeebaze: chnage of the name to what?
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19:28.49baze3d7k
19:28.49BluesLeewhat?:-)
19:28.49Chockshow stoopit.
19:28.49bazeyep
19:28.49BluesLeeno
19:28.50bazeand i guess that's the only news on that thing. at least the only i know of :/
19:28.50BluesLee3d7k?
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19:28.50bazehttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA03
19:28.51bazecodename only
19:28.52bazeno idea why gta03 wasn't good enough as a codename ;)
19:28.53BluesLeeyeah
19:28.53BluesLeei dont care, i dont assume that it will be a ready to use phone
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19:28.54Chocksheh
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19:30.54DaveTASN
19:31.01TAsnDAVE!!!
19:31.03TAsnsup? ;]
19:31.12ChocksTASN1?
19:31.27TAsnChocks, ?! (I don't think I know you) hey ;]
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19:31.32Chocks:p
19:31.37Chockshello.
19:31.44Dave:D
19:31.45TAsnChocks, I know dave because he's a moko legend.
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19:31.50Davehahaha ;D
19:31.57ChocksDave is my bitch, and that's all that matters.
19:31.58TAsnhe has fans all around the community. ;]
19:31.58DaveWhy thank you... (I think)
19:32.10Daveand stalkers... apparently :x
19:32.20TAsnyeah (not me though)
19:32.39TAsnI remember your scap stalker.
19:33.19ChocksI'm sure Dave holds the record for breaking the most FRs
19:34.16bumblnah
19:34.30TAsnChocks, I think that's what he's famous for. ;]
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19:41.03Chocksbumbl: oh, there's a contender for the title? ;-)
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19:42.59DaveChocks, youfucker :P
19:43.00Zorkmani think he just owns >50% of the entire FR population
19:43.04Davebut it's probably right :(
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19:43.08Davehahahaha
19:43.22Zorkmanhe can always blame it on his labrats
19:43.33Daveor lulu :o :o
19:43.35Davehides
19:43.36Zorkmanthey just love to nibble at that neversleeping calypso
19:43.40Zorkmanhahaha
19:43.42Davehaha
19:43.55bumblChocks: well i think they broke a lot of neos in taipei
19:44.01bumbland sold them all to Dave
19:44.06bumblto go round the bend
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19:46.00DaveThat's where they all came from!
19:46.34ChocksThe point was, Taipei probably took a team.  Dave is just one, heroic, person.
19:47.08ChocksHaving said that, I'm sure if I was in Dave's position, I would have broken my share
19:48.06ChocksAnd I think I'm extremely lucky in having only roasted one device here in the last two years.  Put a black hole through the center of a compactflash card.
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19:48.17Chocks12V != 5V
19:48.23Dave:D
19:48.31Davehaha yeah, I learned that the hard way with hdd's :P
19:48.32azaghalIf I switch over to Qi, will I still be able to flash the internal flash somehow?
19:48.36Dave*bzzzzzzzzzap*
19:48.50Chocksazg: wit NOR
19:48.59Zorkmanazaghal: sure
19:49.00mmontourazaghal: yes, see the "flash_eraseall" and "nandwrite" commands
19:49.07azaghalOkey-dokey
19:49.14azaghalAnd any hackable:1 user around?
19:49.25ChocksAzalyn: did for a bit, but it got annoying
19:49.25DaveMmontour!
19:49.34Chockssilly bitchx
19:50.00Chocksno obvious development, and no obvious adavantage over SHR, apart from it being a full Debian
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20:25.33CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * rdac286bef67e 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/convert.py:
20:25.33CIA-54freesmartphone.org: ogsmd/convert: rewrite 7-bit handling for performance
20:25.33CIA-54freesmartphone.org: Inspired by libgsmd_sms.c
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20:32.59CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * re6622364b1c6 10/tests/sms.py: tests/sms: test encoding performace
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22:06.53CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r6a9ed7b007b4 10/fsogsmd/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
22:06.53CIA-54freesmartphone.org: fsogsmd: some fun with generated classes for at command parsing
22:06.53CIA-54freesmartphone.org: NOTE: just playing, dunno whether this will lead into something or not
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22:24.22SomeThi
22:24.30SomeTi just installed SHR Testing
22:24.38SomeTand can not get WIFI or calls working
22:25.58|Marco|oh ?
22:26.26|Marco|have you gotten a gsm connection on the phone at all in any other distro ?
22:27.14SomeTyes
22:27.17SomeTin all distros
22:27.20SomeTincluding this on
22:27.23SomeTi can make the call
22:27.28SomeTjust can not hear anything
22:27.43SomeTwhen i run mofi as well it just crashes
22:28.51SomeT?
22:35.56Chockswelcome to SHR
22:36.41SomeTthanks
22:36.51SomeTis there an alternative i can use to mofi?
22:36.58Chockshahaha.
22:37.01Chocksiwconfig
22:37.13SomeTthanks
22:37.27SomeTthis is quite ambitious of me
22:37.34ChocksPS.: that wasn't a very helpful response I gave.
22:37.34SomeTbut im thinking of making my own distro
22:37.46SomeTwell thats what google is for, lol
22:37.58ChocksOk, but use some grammar in your distro documentation :p
22:38.17SomeTwhat do you mean?
22:39.59Chocks"im", "lol"
22:40.48SomeTlol is an official word in my country
22:40.52SomeTit is in our dictionary
22:40.56SomeTalong with im
22:40.58ChocksAh yes, lestaville.
22:41.03SomeTno
22:41.07SomeTthat is my city
22:41.09saracenalso put some distro documentation in your distro documentation
22:41.30ChocksIf you mean England, I can assure you it is not.
22:42.19SomeTit is
22:42.25SomeTi am from here
22:42.27SomeTso i should know
22:42.30SomeTi read it once
22:42.41SomeTim just messing
22:42.42SomeTlol is
22:42.44SomeTbut im is not
22:42.55SomeTgrammar does not have to be perfect in a chat room
22:43.00SomeTfor example when the phone
22:43.03ChocksI know you're _trying_ to mess, but I actually lived in England
22:43.11SomeTwhere?
22:43.12SomeTlondon?
22:43.19SomeTor newcastle?
22:43.21saracenLondon is England.
22:43.31ChocksHah, no.  But very briefly in lestashire, and elsewhere.
22:43.31SomeTno its not
22:43.39saracenIt sure is
22:43.40SomeTits a terrible city i hate it
22:43.51SomeTi got really scared a few months ago when i was in london
22:43.51SpeedEvilLondon is a tiny part of england.
22:44.01SomeTit was to busy
22:44.11SomeTway more advanced than the tiny village i live in
22:44.20saracen"London" and "England" are interchangable.
22:44.42Chockssaracen: not to an American.
22:44.45SomeTi might be going over to the usa soon, haha
22:44.48SomeTfor four months
22:44.53SomeTi find out tommorow
22:44.57saracenChocks: I thought this only worked to an American? :)
22:45.13ChocksSimilarly, "Europe" and "England" are not interchangeable.
22:45.26SomeTi agree
22:45.32SomeTi hate europe
22:45.43saracenAnyway. I actually live in England. But I've seen Americans refer to England and London as though they're the same thing.
22:45.49ChocksAnyway, London is a bit different to the rest of England.
22:46.06ChocksI lived in Cambridge for 7 years.
22:46.36cjbsaracen: my hobby:  saying "you know that you're on an island right now, right?" to visiting Americans, and watching them go bug-eyed ;-)
22:46.52cjblived in Cambridge too
22:46.58Chockssaracen: I'm sure. my reference is really to extrapolating the food/culture of London to the rest of the UK
22:47.03saracencjb: Or asking them what state they think they're in :)
22:47.06cjbis in the other Cambridge now, then
22:47.10SomeTi typed in iwconfig in SHB and it says no wireless extensions?
22:47.20ChocksMy mother was born in the other _other_ Cambridge
22:47.21cjbs/then/though/
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22:48.13SomeT???
22:48.16Chocks!!!
22:48.21saracen?!?
22:48.25saracenI believe I win.
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22:48.35Chocksbooby prize.
22:48.44cjb‽‽‽
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22:48.57saracenSomeT: Turn wifi on.
22:49.03saracenTURN IT ON BEFORE WE ALL DIE
22:49.11saracenI felt drama needed to be added.
22:51.05SomeThow do i now turn wifi on without using mofi to make the browser pick it up?
22:51.09SomeTwithin the terminal?
22:53.01saracensettings => connectivity, or something like that.
22:53.07ndnihilsettings->internet
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22:53.11saracenThen mofo might even work.
22:53.16ndnihilbut that just turns it on
22:53.21Chocksmofomofiwifi
22:53.36ndnihilwont let you scan though, which I believe mofi needs to work
22:53.39saracenmeh
22:54.05ndnihileth0      Failed to read scan data : Resource temporarily unavailable
22:54.08ndnihilis what I get
22:54.19ChocksIsn't SHR great?
22:54.22ndnihil(from `iwlist scan`
22:54.23ndnihil)
22:54.25SomeTno
22:54.36SomeTi am going to make my own distro, haha
22:54.55ndnihiljust make debian packages
22:55.00ndnihilmuch easier
22:55.12SomeTi was thinking of starting with knoppix
22:55.20ndnihilopkg doesn't appear to handle dependencies very well
22:55.27ndnihilor at all
22:55.31daggerSomeT: if you believe your skills are up to the task - go for it! :D
22:55.35Chocksndnihil: it does. a bit.  leaves much to be desired.
22:55.57Chocksit's very RPM in its handling.  i.e, crap.
22:56.07ndnihilapt/dpkg was the only package management system that managed to drag me away from slackware
22:57.00SomeTgotta go
22:57.01SomeTcya
22:59.10ChocksHe wants to make a distro, but he didn't know what ssh was last week.  Good grief.
22:59.19ndnihilhahah
22:59.21ndnihilseriously?
22:59.45Chocks"I learn fast"
22:59.46Chocksetc.
23:00.11ndnihiloof
23:00.12saracenWho doesn't go from ssh to making their own distro in a matter of weeks, seriously.
23:00.19ChocksI am also compelling to make a distro, but perhaps for different reasons.  And at the same time, thinking that there already way too many.
23:00.30Chockser, compelling/considering
23:00.42Chocks+are.  so not grammar.
23:01.12CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07libeflvala * r46d180ba9e86 10/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
23:01.12CIA-54freesmartphone.org: Added eina
23:01.12CIA-54freesmartphone.org: Added examples for eina
23:01.13CIA-54freesmartphone.org: added Quicklaunch namespace for elm
23:01.14CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07libeflvala * rb02be5819954 10/ (configure.ac examples/eina/eina.vala):
23:01.14CIA-54freesmartphone.org: added examples/eina in configure.ac
23:01.18CIA-54freesmartphone.org: small changes in example
23:03.01ChocksHm, nearly April 1st.  Press release day.
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23:25.03*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-142-101-135.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
23:28.18*** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD4774D.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:40.59CIA-54openmoko: 03werner * r4965 10/developers/werner/bin/test-build-kernel: Check also the signed-off-by line.
23:46.22*** join/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin)
23:46.50*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-142-101-135.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)

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