IRC log for #openmoko on 20090325

00:01.37SpeedEvil(the decreased memory bus traffic helps power use)
00:01.54*** join/#openmoko fredrin (n=workingn@186-212-231-201.fibertel.com.ar)
00:02.24*** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk)
00:02.38roolyanyway
00:02.39roolybbl
00:02.49roolyshower and supper and then code
00:04.36SpeedEvilSave time! /me passes rooly a pot-noodle with the lid off, for the shower.
00:46.15*** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro)
00:49.05*** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@blfd-4db1c8bb.pool.einsundeins.de)
00:52.34*** join/#openmoko gcwilson (n=gcwilson@32.97.110.59)
00:54.15*** join/#openmoko OpenRaigedas (n=OpenSour@hst-254-124.splius.lt)
00:58.31*** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-181-60.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net)
01:03.42*** join/#openmoko paulproteus_ (n=paulprot@2002:db69:2513:0:0:0:0:1)
01:07.07*** join/#openmoko paulproteus_ (n=paulprot@2002:db69:2513:0:0:0:0:1)
01:11.25*** join/#openmoko GunsNRose (n=GunsNRos@222.212.48.123)
01:12.12*** join/#openmoko knguyen (n=knguyen@ip72-200-109-252.tc.ph.cox.net)
01:21.56*** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-99-2-134-25.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net)
01:22.10*** join/#openmoko Digital_Pioneer (n=digitalp@h17.200.255.206.cable.srcy.cablelynx.com)
01:23.29*** join/#openmoko GovCon (n=GC@cpc2-tref2-0-0-cust503.cdif.cable.ntl.com)
01:27.55*** join/#openmoko GNUGPL (n=OpenSour@hst-254-124.splius.lt)
01:33.00*** join/#openmoko knguyen (n=knguyen@ip72-200-109-252.tc.ph.cox.net)
01:35.28*** join/#openmoko slaxxin (n=brian@ip72-204-125-6.fv.ks.cox.net)
01:37.31*** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun)
01:41.44Chockymoo
01:59.04*** join/#openmoko knguyen (n=knguyen@ip72-200-109-252.tc.ph.cox.net)
02:00.00slaxxinoo
02:00.33Chockyooh
02:05.30roolyback
02:06.26*** join/#openmoko Defiant- (i=erik@c202168.adsl.hansenet.de)
02:08.35slaxxinstill using qt extended rooly?
02:10.23roolyno
02:10.27roolyi switched to paroli
02:12.14Chockyhms this whole paroli thing
02:16.23*** join/#openmoko Kero_ (n=kero@d74199.upc-d.chello.nl)
02:18.18*** join/#openmoko GunsNRose (n=GunsNRos@222.212.48.123)
02:33.16mwesterrefuses to even try a distro that sounds like something a woman takes to the beach, just on general principle. 'tis a silly name.
02:33.41Kamping_Kaiserreads up - what did i miss o_0
02:33.56*** join/#openmoko eolson (n=eolson@c-24-13-244-61.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
02:35.50slaxxinhow do u exit paroli to the regular fso desktop   or can u?
02:36.08slaxxinwith that latest paroli image
02:36.59slaxxinrooly?
02:37.52roolyyo
02:38.04roolyerm...its a configuration
02:46.58*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@89.143.150.239)
02:52.36DocScrutinizermwester: so at least it keeps tradition of silly names on FR sw
02:53.07roolyif raster doesn't use the eon name, i'm going to
02:54.13*** join/#openmoko fish_ (n=fish@freigeist.org)
02:55.40rasterrooly: use it for what?
02:55.47rasteri like the eon name...
02:55.59roolygood
02:56.04rasterthe problem is the next step...
02:56.07roolyi'm just ssayin
02:56.08rasteri'm all about nuts and bolts
02:56.12rastermarketing. names and ideas are great
02:56.22rasterbut we need the backbone to come to life
02:57.12roolyif you were to give me a price for one unit
02:59.55DocScrutinizerhttp://www.eon.com/
03:00.44rasterrooly: wholesale or retail?
03:00.58rasterrooly: and what would that price be fore?
03:01.21roolyretail
03:01.41rasterrooly: for the purpose of getting customers and/or funds to make it?
03:01.52raster$700 is a guess
03:02.03rasterbased on components, other costs, etc.
03:02.07rooly's roughly the retail of an iphone
03:02.15rasteryup
03:02.34rasterthough it'd have more advanced hardware than iphone
03:02.43rasterit's be likely not as slick/slim
03:02.45roolyminus the shitty closed system and stevejobsian control scheme
03:02.48rasterand software would be more rough
03:02.58rasterthough software will improve over time
03:03.11rasteralso $700 will be able to go down - if voluems go up
03:03.14roolynot to mention i could make my own changes to a fair degree, right?
03:03.18rastereg if u can somehow sell 200,000 of tyhem
03:03.24rasterthat of course will allow price to drop a lot
03:03.31rasteryup
03:03.40rasterwhole os is replacable
03:03.43rasterfrom kernel up
03:03.53rasterdo it completely new
03:03.59rasteror build on whats there at any layer
03:04.25rasteros runs off sd card (micro-sd)
03:04.28DocScrutinizerthat's what it's all about in the end
03:04.34rasterso even reflash is totally trivial with zero special hw
03:04.59rasterif u have an sdcard reader... u can reflash. no software or special cables needed
03:05.08rasterand u can generate os images that are trivial to flahs
03:05.17rasteror even easier - re-sell micro-sd's pre-imaged
03:05.20roolyraster, what about multiple sd cards and striping across them with one OS sd
03:05.21rasterjust plug in and use
03:05.35rasterwell my idea at least invovles 2 micro-sd's
03:05.44rasterone internal for os u cant remove without opening it up
03:05.49rasterand an external for "media"
03:05.56rasteru could stripe across the 2
03:06.08rasterthough the sd card speed on an omap3 is realyl impressive
03:06.15rasteri pull 26mb/sec off my sd here
03:06.19roolynice
03:06.39roolygot any shapes in mind?
03:07.06DocScrutinizerno like neo ;)
03:07.27roolylikes the neo's design
03:07.29roolyvery rugged
03:07.33roolyand spartan
03:07.43rasterrooly: thats entirely dependant on components
03:07.51rastermostly screen but also battery
03:08.05rasterbut in the end it needs to work
03:08.08roolyof, of course
03:08.17rasteri dont think we'd have the ability to do ipone-level sleek
03:08.20rasternot yet
03:08.28roolyif'n you did that i'd never buy it
03:08.34rasteri should draw some mockup design i had in mind
03:08.44DocScrutinizerhaving option of thicker bat would be great
03:08.49rasterbut i'd prefer a middleground of sleek but functional
03:08.53rasterie battery is replacable
03:08.59rasteru can easily open it
03:09.05rasterwith actual "Slots" on the side for plugs
03:09.07rasterand micro-sd
03:09.09rasterand buttons etc.
03:09.34rasterright now.. i'd "like" a qwerty kbd on it
03:09.45rasterbut totally not sure on if its mechanically doable
03:09.54DocScrutinizerduh, that's new :)
03:09.58*** join/#openmoko pcfe` (n=pcfe@a88-115-12-28.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
03:11.10rasterwell doable given we have no mech design people...
03:11.58DocScrutinizerhmm
03:13.25rasternb
03:13.33rasteri can pull 14.5m/sec off this microsd here too
03:13.47rastersoa s such i think it would be really fast even with 1
03:14.08rasterbut for hyper-io speed 2 might work as an lvm setup + raid-0
03:14.17rasterbut then NEVER unplug the external card.. or u'll be in pain
03:14.18raster:)
03:14.40*** join/#openmoko LittleLeo (n=chatzill@166.111.68.169)
03:14.48DocScrutinizerlol
03:14.58roolycan handle that
03:15.02DocScrutinizerraid1 ;D
03:15.13rasterbut the hw should be pretty powerful
03:15.21roolyraster: how bout making them both accessible, but one below the battery and one on the external case
03:15.27rasterDocScrutinizer:  err yeah. thats what i was thinking. striped.
03:15.35rasterrooly:  thats the idea
03:15.38roolyok
03:15.42rasterrooly:  both always accessible
03:15.44rasterpluggable
03:15.48rasterbut 1 is "hard to get to"
03:15.53raster(under the battery inside the case)
03:15.55roolyic
03:16.01rasterthe other is intended for dynamic hotplug
03:16.08rasterbut - you are free to use them differently if u want
03:16.18roolyso no such thing as bricking this device then
03:16.44rasternup
03:16.48rasterthe omap3 has bootloader in rom
03:16.57rasterthe bootloader in rom can boot off nand OR off sd
03:17.03rasterit the sd is formatted just right
03:17.04roolyooo, ooo, ooo, i know, make it compatible with the new sdxc format
03:17.09DocScrutinizerraster: multisim a low cost nice-to-have (mutually exclusive that is)
03:17.32*** join/#openmoko GunsNRose_ (n=GunsNRos@222.212.59.167)
03:17.33raster(right number of heads/cyclinders/sectors, with a fat partition wityh a special MLO file as the first fat entry in the file list for the fat fs)
03:18.03rasterso its unbrickable
03:18.29roolywonders how multi-sim is supposed to work
03:18.30raster(its just increasing degrees of carefulness to unbrick it - no special hw needed beyond a micro-sd card and something that can write to it on your pc/laptop)
03:18.35roolyyou just have 2 phone numbers?
03:18.39rasterDocScrutinizer:  multi-sim - i know little about
03:19.05rasteri dont know how that interacts with the baseband chipset
03:19.08rasterif it needs the support
03:19.11rasteror u fee dit in
03:19.18rasterso as such i'd go for 1 sim - until i know more
03:19.29DocScrutinizermutually exclusive multisim is stupid as bread: just a convenient way to "swap" sim
03:20.56rasterwell that sstupid
03:21.00roolyquite
03:21.03DocScrutinizerif you could fix the modem fw to switch workspace (stack, pc, registers etc), it could run two independant instances same time, switching sims by a gpio
03:21.06rasterit just makes the phone bigger and electrically more complex
03:21.20raster*&IF* u can get them both running at once
03:21.24rasteri'd be for it tho
03:22.10DocScrutinizerthat's all about if we get hand on gsm-fw
03:22.19rasterchances are u never will
03:22.22rasteri wouldnt bet on it
03:22.24rasterso until u can
03:22.27rasterdont design for it
03:22.28raster:)
03:23.01DocScrutinizernah, the electrical "overhead" is minimal
03:23.25rasterits having to find yet more room for a 2nd sim card in what will alreayd be a very crammed internals
03:23.37*** join/#openmoko knguyen (n=knguyen@ip72-200-109-252.tc.ph.cox.net)
03:23.46DocScrutinizerand maybe if we support the device, gsm-mnf might consider to implement
03:24.01rastermaybe
03:24.09rastercan put it on the list of possibilities
03:24.18rasterbut then i dont have an ide ahow the sim is hooked to the gsm fw
03:24.26rasterso if u can even electrically do it properly
03:24.56rasterrooly: is a keypad a must?
03:25.09roolyfer me? no
03:25.14rasterfor most?
03:25.14DocScrutinizerelectrically np
03:25.16roolyjust a decent software keyboard
03:25.21roolyraster, obviously not
03:25.27rasterthats a matter of software then
03:25.36rasterand a flat surface for the screen
03:25.40roolyso many people use htc's, iphones, and the new blackberry's
03:25.44raster(not bezeled in)
03:26.00rasterand "just big enough"
03:26.35raster(and otherwise software. imho u want capactitive multitouch for it too as basicalyl humans will press one key before they relase the other whihc just confuses resistive screens)
03:26.41*** join/#openmoko knguyen (n=knguyen@ip72-200-109-252.tc.ph.cox.net)
03:26.49DocScrutinizerif it's "big enough" a small bezel won't matter
03:27.00rasterDocScrutinizer:  yes - but then u are probably n800 size
03:27.06roolythe bezel is actually one of the main factors in the FR's ruggedness
03:27.15rasteralso bezel-less is simply sexier
03:27.30rasterrooly: i'm not too sure there
03:27.33roolyi am
03:27.39DocScrutinizeryou can do multitouch on R-ts!
03:27.43roolyknow how many times i shoulda smashed the screen already?
03:27.56roolythanks to the bezel not letting the screen hit
03:28.04roolymy FR is still going strong
03:28.12rasteri have some good examples of lack of bezel and the lcd is almsot impenetrable as the lcd is below another layer of perspex
03:28.16rasteron top of which is the ts
03:28.25rasterit has extra protection beyond what it has on the fr
03:28.40rasterrooly: hmm i think u have bad examples
03:29.03rasteri have 2 here that are the opposite of what u assume
03:29.14rastermotorola rokr e6
03:29.16DocScrutinizerraster: that's C-ts only
03:29.20rasterand this  other one
03:29.30rasterDocScrutinizer:  u can do resistive that way too
03:29.41DocScrutinizerR-ts has not that rigid surface
03:29.56rasterthese 2 do
03:29.59rasterwell its not toalyl rigid
03:30.05rasterit has some give
03:30.09rasterbut not that u can "see"
03:30.36DocScrutinizeryeah omnia e.g. has no bezel
03:30.43rasteryup
03:30.46rasterand thats resistive
03:30.58rasterthey put r-ts on top of a perspex panel
03:31.01DocScrutinizerbut there you see for *sure*
03:31.03rasterand under that panel is the actual lcd
03:31.09DocScrutinizerit's a bad ts
03:31.16rasterthe lcd actually gets a lot more protection
03:31.57*** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@212-183-117-217.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
03:33.55DocScrutinizerbtw I'd love a phone size of N800
03:34.07rasteri think u'd want a little smaller
03:34.16rasterif it could be the size of JUST the visible lcd
03:34.19rasteru'd be doing well
03:34.43DocScrutinizerok
03:34.47DocScrutinizerack
03:34.54rasteractually
03:34.58rasterthat is the size of this phone here
03:35.01rasterits abut omina-size
03:35.21rasterits the width of the n800 screen height
03:35.25DocScrutinizeryup
03:35.35rasterand lenth its n800 screen width PLUS one half of the padding to the side
03:35.39rasterso i'm not far off
03:35.40DocScrutinizerjust tested ;)
03:35.49rasterthe problem is the 4.3" lcd's come with too much bezel around the unit
03:36.11rasterit'd be nice if u can have the lcd with almsot NO extra metal/glass outside the visible area
03:36.13DocScrutinizerhmm
03:36.15rastermaybe 1-2mm
03:36.19rasterbut that isnt going to happen
03:36.33ChockyOk, so (a) why is the screen lock not working in SHR unstable and (b) why are some of the icons not showing?
03:36.43Chockynotes that raster likes to talk.
03:36.49DocScrutinizer(not happen) why?
03:37.03rasterDocScrutinizer: find that lcm.. and i'll be happy
03:37.07rasterchances are.. u wotn find it
03:37.27rasterin fact
03:37.37rasterdo u know of any good online list of lcm's
03:37.39DocScrutinizerraster: yup rare. but feasible
03:37.49DocScrutinizerhard to find tho
03:38.00rastercrap
03:38.06rasterthe domain i was using is now dead
03:38.26roolyanywho
03:38.31rastersupplier - whatever
03:38.33rastersite is down
03:38.36Chockyrools.
03:38.37roolyis gonna go off and do something else
03:38.43rasterdns doesnt resolve anymore
03:38.43roolyyo Chocky
03:38.44rasterpooo
03:39.15DocScrutinizerdomain hijacking? o.O
03:39.48rasterits just dead
03:39.57rastersupplier may have shut down
03:39.59rasterdunno
03:40.25DocScrutinizeruptime expired ;)
03:42.20*** join/#openmoko fish_ (n=fish@freigeist.org)
03:42.55*** join/#openmoko wirrwarr|2 (n=fz@ppp-93-104-3-205.dynamic.mnet-online.de)
03:43.27roolyChocky: what'd you want?
03:43.45Chockystill have blank icons for pythm and openmoko-contacts
03:44.26roolyoh, erm, okay
03:45.20ChockyAnd no screen lock with Aux button
03:47.01Blu3chocky, the openmoko-contacts.png seems to be broken, if you copy another icon, it'll come up fine
03:47.22Chockyhm
03:47.34Chockyseems ok on my real Linux desktop
03:47.37roolynn's everyone
03:48.07Blu3yeah, but the png loader on shr doesn't seem to like it
03:48.10*** part/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@12.151.197.98)
03:48.13Chockypoo poo
03:51.44rasterdoes it appear if u killall -HYP enlightenment
03:51.45rastererr
03:51.48rasterdoes it appear if u killall -HUP enlightenment
03:51.49rasterrestart e
03:52.09rasterbasically there is a fundamental problem with how things are installed by opkg in ipks
03:52.13rasterand the fdo .desktop standard
03:52.21Chockyheh, no kidding
03:52.31ChockyI ran the icons through 'convert'.  didn't help
03:52.58*** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@ip72-219-131-110.oc.oc.cox.net)
03:53.15ChockyX restart doesn't help; tried that several times already
03:54.45rasterok
03:54.50rasterthen its simply not finding/liking the icon
03:58.11ChockyI don't think it's that simple
03:58.32ChockyIf I rename the icon in the .desktop file, it works.  but if I copy another icon to the name, it doesn't.
03:59.13rasterits not finding the icon
03:59.15rasterwhere is the icon?
03:59.25rasterand what is the icon filename
03:59.30Chockysigh
03:59.32rasterand how does the .desktop refer to it
03:59.36Chockyplease don't patronize me.
03:59.47rasteri am asking for the file paths
03:59.51rasterif u want help
04:00.04rasterit may not even be TRYING ot load it as it never found it
04:00.08ChockyNo kidding.
04:00.15rasterthus - i'm asking
04:00.23ChockyBut a barrage of commentary is not helpful either.
04:00.39ChockyGive me some freakin' credit.
04:01.05raster?
04:01.09Chocky!
04:01.29*** join/#openmoko phosphoricx (n=fmaker@c-76-114-38-109.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
04:01.37rasterok. then deal with it yourself.
04:01.51Chockyuh huh.
04:02.08rasteri was trying to help by trying to get some finromation
04:02.16*** join/#openmoko tenzind (n=tenzin@202.144.158.193)
04:02.20rasterwhich you'd prefer to go "duh" on as you seem to know it all
04:02.23ChockyI'm sure you think that's the case.
04:02.28rasterso go ahead
04:02.34ChockyBut not like this.  Not with your verbal diaharrea
04:02.47johnsu01...
04:02.52rasteri havent said give or take anything more than you have
04:02.59*** join/#openmoko GunsNRose (n=GunsNRos@222.212.59.167)
04:03.09Chocky*whoosh*
04:03.10*** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-71-198-208-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
04:03.18rasteryou have basically given vague grunts of "err it doesnt work"
04:03.23ChockyI haven't.
04:03.26rasterwith no tangible useful detail i can use
04:03.34ChockyNo, that's wrong.
04:03.44raster<Chocky> If I rename the icon in the .desktop file, it works.  but if I copy another icon to the name, it doesn't.
04:03.47rasterfor starters
04:03.50rasterchange from what to what?
04:03.57ChockyI haven't had a chance.  You've talked and talked.  only listening to yourself
04:03.59rasterno useful detail
04:04.03ChockyThen ASK!
04:04.05Chockyidiot
04:04.07Chockygeez.
04:04.14rasteri DID
04:04.15Chockytalk about someone who can't shut up
04:04.20raster<raster> its not finding the icon
04:04.20raster<raster> where is the icon?
04:04.20raster<raster> and what is the icon filename
04:04.31Chockylook at the scrollback before I came in.  it's 200 lines of you talk, talk talk
04:04.33rasteri made a quick guess of an assessment
04:04.50Chockylook, you're not helping.  Can you shut up already?
04:05.08*** join/#openmoko woxz (i=d2ca1087@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9fdd8b70ead0d8d8)
04:05.13raster(after you were using convert thinkign the file itself was corrupt/broken/not lodable)
04:05.19rasterand 2 simple q's
04:05.22rasterfor 2 bits of info
04:05.29ChockyYou have a fanstastic skill of stating the obvious.
04:05.34rasterwhere you begin to sigh and say i'm patronizing you
04:05.48Chockynow you're rehashing what you said.  you must be fun at a party.
04:05.56rasterthats because you wont answrer
04:06.00rasterand go straight into bashing me
04:06.09ChockyNo, you're being dishonest
04:06.17rasterno i'm not
04:06.19rasterscroll back
04:06.20Chockyyep.
04:06.21rasterand read
04:06.24Chockylook
04:06.27ChockyI'm raster
04:06.28rasteri can do it just as well as u can
04:06.28Chockytalk
04:06.29Chockytalk
04:06.31Chockyme
04:06.33Chockynot listen
04:06.35Chockyrandom thing
04:06.36Chockytalk
04:06.39Chockyrepeat what I said
04:06.40Chockytalk
04:06.43rasterDUDE its irc
04:06.44Chockylook at me. lal lal lal
04:06.50rasterlistenign is not mutually exclusive to typing
04:06.51ChockyDUDE, you can't shut up!
04:07.01rasterneither can you
04:07.08rasteranswer the q
04:07.10ChockyNo
04:07.12rasteror get off your soapbox
04:07.14ChockyI don't want your help.
04:09.13*** join/#openmoko mrmoku (n=mrmoku@ppp-93-104-41-5.dynamic.mnet-online.de)
04:09.24rasternb
04:09.33rasterit may simply be a lack of knowledge of irc
04:09.38rasterbut u never pasted/gave the file paths
04:09.45ChockySee, you can't shut up.
04:09.47rasteras u probably pasted them in and as they start with a /
04:09.57rasterthey were never printed - irc cmd's
04:10.12ChockyYou know, I thought you were a nice guy from the comments that people made.  Now I see you've got a serious ego problem.
04:10.15rasterand i was readign back just to check i didnt miss anything
04:10.25ChockyDude, stop making stupid assumptions.
04:10.38*** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.172.33.101)
04:10.49ChockyAnd I already said I didn't want your help.
04:11.12raster<raster> change from what to what?
04:11.12raster<Chocky> I haven't had a chance.  You've talked and talked.  only listening to yourself
04:11.13raster<raster> no useful detail
04:11.13raster<Chocky> Then ASK!
04:11.13raster<Chocky> idiot
04:11.15rasteri did ask
04:11.20rasterand u never replied except to abuse me
04:11.24ChockyForget it.
04:11.29Chockyyou have a serious problem
04:11.36rasteri have been trying to figure out where i patronised you
04:11.36ChockyI already said 3 times I don't want your help.
04:11.39rasteror ignored your answers
04:11.43Chockyshut up already.
04:11.48Chockyfor goodness sake.
04:12.17rasterbut in the end i suspect you have a mental issue with knowing what you are even doign or saying or following your own speech, letalone that of others.
04:12.21rasteri will not shut up
04:12.25Chockyawww, baby
04:12.34rasternot because you simply say so
04:12.35Chockyare you so insecure about these icons that you have to berate it out of me?
04:12.42rasterthis is a free form - i am free to talk as i pelase, as are you
04:12.54Chockyindeed, it seems you cannot shut up.   Like I said, 200 lines of ramble.
04:12.59rasterand no i'm not insecure
04:13.09rasteri am tryign to get information that may help possibly fix a bug
04:13.23rasterbut it seems u are in no way wanting to even give the info to help that
04:13.27*** join/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@61.170.167.211)
04:13.31*** part/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@61.170.167.211)
04:13.34ChockyNot like this, no.  
04:14.08rasterfeel free to live with the bgu then
04:14.09ChockyI already have to deal with people who are full of themselves and full of assumptions in my day job. I won't do it here.
04:14.10rasterbug
04:14.26rasterdude - where does it imply i'm full of myself
04:14.33rasterplease quote me on that?
04:15.05ChockyVery well.  I'll quote you on "I'm full of myself".
04:15.08Chockyas you ask.
04:15.16rasterwhere?
04:15.20ChockyThere, you just said it.
04:15.38rasteryou really do have a mental problem.
04:17.18*** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@61.16.248.242)
04:18.49pjzChocky: dude.
04:18.58Chockypjz: dude yourself
04:22.53pjzChocky: so, to recap. SHR unstable, some icons (pythm and openmoko-contacts) are missing.  Aand that seems to be all the info I can find.
04:23.44Chockywell, indeed.  there was more info that that, but it was buried in the screed of text.
04:24.33pjzChocky: oh, right, changing the name in the .desktop file works, but moving another icon to the same name doesn't.
04:24.43Chockyyessir.
04:24.57pjzChocky: which could be explained if something is doing some caching in the middle such that the new contents of that file aren't really being picked up.
04:26.19pjzChocky: changing the contents of that file to a known-working icon and then rebooting would test that.
04:26.52pjzChocky: but you probably figured that out since, you know, I have to give you some credit.
04:27.01rasterreboot is a bit extreme - killall -HUP enlightenment will do the job
04:27.21*** join/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@61.170.167.211)
04:27.22*** join/#openmoko GunsNRose_ (n=GunsNRos@222.212.59.167)
04:27.31Chockypjz: you can save the patronizing comments for the noobs, ta.
04:27.57*** part/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@61.170.167.211)
04:28.11pjzChocky: ah, but coming in here and asking for help and then dissing raster is a definite noob move.
04:28.46ChockyPerhaps, but given the context, and his screeds of text, justified.
04:29.04ChockyIn any case, it was a continuation of a conversation from this morning with others.
04:30.35pjzregardless. dissing him when he's trying to help is just rude.
04:30.41rasterbingo
04:30.46ChockyI strongly content he wasn't help.  
04:30.48Chockycontend.
04:31.05Chockyhelping.  No matter what you and he _thought_ he was doing.
04:31.15pjzChocky:  he was trying, which is more than you'll get if your rude like that to the rest of the smart contributors here and run them all off.
04:31.29pjzs/your/you're/
04:31.43Chockypjz: you seem to be missing a few tricks.  First of all, I've contributed a great deal.
04:32.03ChockySecond, raster's approach is not at all helpful.  I've been on IRC longer than just about anyone here.  Helped many many people.
04:32.12pjzChocky: yeah, well, I know raster's name off the top of my head and I don't know yours, and I've been lurking since before GTA01
04:32.15Chockyso don't lecture me.
04:32.25Chockybully for you.
04:32.40cjbI don't recognize Chocky's nick either.
04:33.01ChockyLook back over the last few days.  I think you'll find a few do.
04:33.17ChockyAnd just because I haven't been lurking here the last months, doesn't mean I haven't helped.  
04:33.55ChockyBut I guess we're too interested in personal examination rather than the results of what I'm seeing
04:34.29*** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-99-2-134-30.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net)
04:35.04ChockyAs you suggested, I copied a working one, and restarted the X server.  Instead of the previous white blank icon file, I now get nothing at all for the icon.
04:35.39cjbChocky: so, your asserted reputation, which none of us seem to know anything about, is not doing a good enough job at excusing you of being dismissively rude to someone who was clearly making an honest attempt at helping.
04:36.00cjbIt looks to me like you went non-linear at about the time he started asking for things that you might expect from a sensible bug report.
04:36.01Chockycjb: assert all you want.
04:36.04rasterChocky: i've been on irc for > 10years... and in my experience what you have done was just plain rude and with no reason for being so.
04:36.17ChockyI've been on IRC for 20 if we're comparing.
04:36.32ChockyLooks like no one is interested in this bug.  At least in a helpful way.
04:36.38rasterdude
04:36.40rasteri asked for info
04:36.43rasteras cjb said
04:36.46ChockySorry, that was wrong.  15 years.
04:36.56rasteryou just went off on a tangent in insulting me at that point
04:37.10Chockyuh uh.
04:37.14rasterat this point i certainly have no desire to help you.
04:37.23Chockyfinally.
04:37.30ChockyI only asked you 5 times not to help me.
04:37.42ChockySorry you couldn't take a hint.
04:37.45cjbChocky: it did look an awful lot like a case of "I'm too important to file bug reports that are actionable by other humans".
04:38.02Chockycjb: it's nevertheless not the case.
04:39.06pjzclearly we all need to join http://peternaullsappreciationsociety.blogspot.com/
04:39.19ChockyDon't worry.  I've already been dissesed over pointing out many broken things, because I'm trying to have a complete understading of OM development.  too many heads in the sand.
04:39.21Chocky:o
04:39.24pjzChocky: assert  all you want
04:39.55Chockywell, we're well and truly away from the icon issue now. Anyone still care?
04:39.55rasterChocky: dude. u pointed out a break. i tred to get more info on the exact situation and pertinent details that will hle[p fix it.
04:40.05rasteryou refused to provide them and instead chose to be rude.
04:40.27rasterno wonder people will stick their head in the sand when you are involved.
04:41.09Chockyheh, nice jumping to conclusions again.
04:41.25cjbChocky: if you go to a doctor, unable to solve your medical problems by yourself, and they say "Open your mouth and say ah" and you say "This is insulting you're an idiot the problem's clearly in my chest"...
04:41.33pjzChocky: sure. what are the paths to the icons in question? did you try rebooting or -HUPping enlightenment?
04:41.33cjb.. you can rightly expect a less than helpful response.
04:41.42Chockycjb: do you want to try a car anology for completeness?
04:41.50cjbChocky: I would be delighted to.
04:41.51rasterpjz:  thats just what i asked - with little result :(
04:42.16Chockyraster: as I said, you have great difficultly saying nothing when you should be listening.
04:42.31rasterChocky:  i'm STILL waiting for you to provide info
04:42.35pjzChocky: and you have great difficulty ignoring others faults.
04:42.40rasterall you want to do is claim i'm not listening
04:42.44Chockyraster: you just said you didn't want to help me.  
04:42.47rasteri have asked.. repeatedly
04:42.50rasterothers have now asked
04:42.50Chockyraster: please stop responding to me.
04:43.01rasterand you simply stonewall.
04:43.02pjzChocky: are you unable to ignore him?
04:43.04rasterhell no
04:43.15rasteri'm goign to respond and keep so
04:43.18rasteras long as i please
04:43.24Chockyraster: so, let's be clear.  Do you want to help me or not?  You just said you didn't.
04:43.25rasteryou are in a public forum
04:43.25pjzChocky: most irc clients have a way to do that, I think
04:43.32rasterchhell i dont wanjt to
04:43.42rasteri just want to watch to see if you will even respond to anyone else askign the same thing
04:43.48rasterwhihc you seemingly refuse to as well
04:43.51rasterso it's not really just me
04:43.51ChockySo you are responding to me, even though you don't want to; presumably, just to be an ass.
04:43.52pjzChocky: so now you're ignoring me.
04:43.54pjzChocky:  nice.
04:44.00pjzChocky: and here I am trying to help you.
04:44.19Chockypjz: I'm not; I'm waiting for raster to make up his mind.
04:44.27rasteri'm more curious in the kind of way you are about a car accident and everyone rubbernecks. they all just want to see "how bad was the crash"
04:44.47*** join/#openmoko dkirker_ (n=dkirker@adsl-99-2-134-30.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net)
04:44.48pjzChocky: so ignore him then and just answer me.
04:44.57Chockypersonally, I don't like driving.
04:45.17pjzChocky: wonderful for you. totally irrelevant to the question at hand,though.
04:45.34Chockypjz: I'd rather not at this point.  Thanks for your offer.  I'll take the matter up tomorrow with those who are more level headed.
04:45.49rasteris still rubbernecking to see how this highway acceident looks like
04:45.55rasterChocky: the same peolpe will be here
04:45.58rasterday in and out
04:46.02rasterso have fun :)
04:46.03pjzChocky: aww, taking your openmoko and going home? seems.. familiar
04:46.11ChockyNot at all
04:46.20johnsu01pjz: let him, please
04:46.32pjzChocky: wait, wait, no... no, that was a website, not a phone. different.
04:47.31rastercome people like to take websites home
04:47.35rasterwho knows why
04:47.48DocScrutinizerraster: I /IGNOREd chocky some 1..2d ago because he didn't stop giving incoherent useles "bug-comments". (basically doing exactly what he accused you for). I gave him another chance, but that's been a bad idea obviously. so I'll ignore chock* now and problem solved
04:48.00Chockyoh, the comedy
04:48.05pjzraster: the internet knows! see http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.acorn.misc/msg/7cfbffc5caa70b12?hl=en
04:48.37ChockyUnfortunatley, the general attitude with OM development has been to highly fragment things, and pretend there are no issues.
04:48.48ChockyOh, you want to dial?  just ssh in and poke this thing first.
04:49.03ChockyRotate the screen - sure, just ssh in and run xrandr.
04:49.30ChockyThere's something like 20 different distros.  And no one seems to thing that's any kind of problem.
04:49.39ChockySome of them have next to no documentation.
04:49.45Chockys/thing/think/
04:50.22rasterDocScrutinizer: aaah. i wasnt the only one :)
04:50.23ChockyThe wiki is a huge shambles, although much less so than it was at FR release.  
04:50.46DocScrutinizerraster: :)
04:50.50pjzraster: got him on ignore now?
04:50.55rasteri thought i was going nuts
04:51.06rasterthat i had said something insulting or patronising
04:51.15rasterthat somehow my grasp of english had collapsed :)
04:51.17ChockySo, assuming I had a real bug to reported, it's pretty unclear where it would be even reported.  Each sub-sub project has its own trac, etc.
04:51.21pjzraster: nah, he's just a bit techy and pretentious
04:51.27rasterpjz:  i'm still rubbernecking :)
04:51.45pjzraster: ugh. don't trouble yourself. not worth it, I'm sure.
04:52.19*** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
04:54.26ChockyWell, at least the highlight is highly amusing people like Dave.  If nothing else, I come here to talk to him.
04:54.27rasteraaah silence
04:57.07pjzraster: so whatcha been up to?. haven't seen you post much lately
04:57.09Blu3chocky, edit your openmoko-contacts.desktop file, change this:
04:57.10Blu3-Categories=Application;Office;PIM;
04:57.11Blu3+Categories=Application;PIM;Office;
04:57.24rasterpjz: been busy contracting
04:57.28rasterdoing some speeches
04:57.35pjzraster: ah, cool
04:57.47rasterbeen working on elementary adding lots of stuff. now test selection works together with scrolling
04:57.55rasteru can do it on a touchscreen nicely
04:58.02rasterits not perfect - but servicable
04:58.08ChockyBlu3: no joy, already tried some similar stuff.
04:58.20Blu3i just did it, it fixed it
04:59.02DocScrutinizers/test/text/ ;)
04:59.10Blu3it may be a cache issue, but this is what fixed it for me
05:01.08ChockyBlu3: hm, yeah.  Poke the pythm one similarly, restarted X, still the same
05:03.23rasterDocScrutinizer:  yeah.. text
05:03.25rasteroops
05:03.27raster:)
05:03.41DocScrutinizernevermind
05:03.53rasterpjz:  also genlist is pretyt solid
05:03.57rasteralso handles trees
05:04.06rasterso u can do incredibly huge lists/trees
05:04.24rasteri'm working on evas optimizations now
05:06.38ChockyBlu3: hm, so maybe what you first suggested.  Something it didn't like about those icons that running through 'convert' didn't help
05:06.42Chockyanyway, bed time.
05:06.56Chockyback for more abuse (from SHR and IRC) tomorrow
05:08.04*** join/#openmoko jakob_ (i=jakob@pureenergy.cc)
05:08.27*** join/#openmoko atsui (n=atsui@adsl-67-121-145-31.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
05:08.45*** join/#openmoko alexxy[home] (n=alexxy@gentoo/developer/alexxy)
05:08.53Blu3chocky, i suspect it's something like that
05:12.10*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh)
05:18.28*** join/#openmoko Raigedas (n=OpenSour@hst-254-124.splius.lt)
05:33.51*** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=christoo@89.143.150.239)
05:34.21*** join/#openmoko nihil (n=nihil@ppp-70-246-149-1.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net)
05:34.32nihilhowdy
05:34.49nihilfinally pulled the trigger and ordered a freerunner
05:35.07nihilwaits at the door for it to show up
05:36.00nihilany advice for speeding up boot time?
05:36.23nihilive got avr32 boards booting rather quickly, but I haven't played with embedded ARM yet
05:36.35rasteruse an omap3...
05:36.39rasterma them things are fast
05:36.54nihilomap3?
05:37.07nihilfirmware revision?
05:37.08rasterTI omap 34xx 35xx
05:37.18rasteroh u mean make the freerunenr faster
05:37.22rastermake it do less
05:37.23raster:)
05:37.25nihilyeah, the freerunner
05:37.55rastermake it just do less
05:38.04rasterthe biggest 2 problems are 1. IO and 2. slow cpu/ram
05:38.25nihilI wanted to make a phone with avr32 and a psp touchscreen display
05:38.29nihilthen I came across the freerunner
05:38.58nihilwhat kind of battery life does it get?
05:40.11rasterthe same boot setup on am omap3 with even more work to do and more expensive IO takes about 22sec on an omap3 (from uboot pause end to full ui up and working)
05:40.19rasterthats loading some expensvie bg's and more
05:40.32nihilsounds about the same time I get on avr32
05:40.33rasterhmm
05:40.40rasterbattery life depends on how long it stays suspended
05:40.50rasteri think some people report 48hrs
05:41.08nihilis it capable of receiving calls when suspended?
05:41.24mmontouryes
05:42.02rasterthe gsm system is yet another arm cpu
05:42.04rasteron its own chip
05:42.10rasterit stays alive and handles the gsm stack
05:42.15nihilgotcha
05:42.27nihilsounds like the gm862 module I have
05:42.28rasterwhen a call or sms comes in it interrupts the host cpu (the 2442) and it should wake from suspend
05:43.50nihilI'm not expecting to replace my laptop, but would it suffice for taking to the park and getting some work done? at most I'd need ssh and a browser
05:44.23nihilbeen eyeballing that laser projection bluetooth keyboard for it
05:44.36rasterhmm i'd say.. no
05:44.52rasterscreen is really tiny
05:44.56rasteru need huge fonts
05:45.03rasterand u end up with really minimal info display ability
05:45.08rasterunless u hold it up really close
05:45.11raster(and then cant focus)
05:45.11raster:)
05:45.18nihilI see
05:45.28rastereven an n800/n810 is pushing it at 4.3"
05:45.31nihilany rumors of a next-gen version of it?
05:45.32rasterthe fr is 2.8"
05:45.40nihil3g perhaps?
05:45.41rasterthere are rumors
05:45.56rasterom has been tight lipped about anything
05:45.58rasterits up to them
05:46.02rasteryou will have to ask there
05:46.14rasteri know i'm interested in doing an open phone that has better specs
05:46.15rasterie 3d
05:46.27rasterwifi, bt, bigger screen, faster cpu/soc
05:46.37nihilsounds like what I'm after
05:47.09rasterproblems are 1. 3g module - who where and what will make for one that at least on the kernel/os side is open
05:47.20rasterthats the big missing bit
05:47.27rasterthe rest is solvable
05:47.49raster(well need to find camera module too, battery and a few other minor things)
05:47.56xrnis initramfs compiled into uImage.bin?
05:47.58nihiltried telit?
05:48.20nihilthey're open, not sure if they make a 3g module though
05:48.50nihilsome of their modules even have python built in
05:48.58nihilthough I'd prefer perl
05:49.05rasterhmm
05:49.06rasterno
05:49.17nihilthey're an italian company
05:49.32rasterhmm
05:49.32rasterwait
05:49.34nihilhttp://www.telit.com/
05:49.41*** join/#openmoko seeseekey (n=Miranda@p54BC3904.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
05:49.45rasterare they the ones that have some python thing going?
05:49.50nihilyeah
05:50.09nihilive got their gm862-quad-gps module
05:50.16nihilit's not what I'd call "ultra tiny"
05:50.18nihilbut not bad
05:50.26rasteralso depends on cost
05:50.35nihileh, for the right hardware, I'd pay
05:50.50rasterwell how much are their umts/hspa modules in volume
05:50.53rastereg 1000+
05:50.59rasteror 10000+
05:51.00rasteretc.
05:51.08rasterballpark
05:51.09raster$300?
05:51.10*** join/#openmoko dwb (n=david@a177027.upc-a.chello.nl)
05:51.16*** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244)
05:51.19nihilI paid about that for a single module retail
05:51.21raster200? 100? 50? 70? 30?
05:51.27nihil$300'ish if I remember right
05:51.30rasterok
05:51.33rasterthats really pricey
05:51.44rasterand that would totally blow out the gom cost
05:51.56rasterthat would be 50% of the whole bom cost
05:52.09nihilhrm, the gm862 is now $99 without gps
05:52.16nihillooks like prices came down
05:52.31nihil$159 for the quad band with gps
05:52.37rasterbut thats not 3g
05:52.40nihiltrue
05:52.49rasterthats the problem
05:52.55rasterahh they are the python mob
05:52.59rasteri liked there before
05:53.02rasterwas expensive
05:53.38nihilwow, their 865 has wifi built in too
05:53.39rasterhow much do their prices go down when in volme
05:53.55*** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-095-208-018-011.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
05:54.01rasteri know that single units carry 50% -> 300% markup over volume prices
05:54.24nihillooks like their new modules are much much smaller than the ones I have
05:54.28nihilnot seeing 3g though
05:54.47rasterthey list 3g modules
05:54.56rasterthe 864's
05:55.02nihilperfect
05:55.24nihiland the 865 I was looking at is wifi only
05:55.28nihil<-- doesnt read italian
05:55.37raster864-e or 864-e-auto seem the right ones
05:56.11nihilhave you seen the avr32 line of mcu?
05:56.23rasterhmm no
05:56.29nihilvery impressive, particularly considering its size and power consumption
05:56.34rasterbut my guess is at the level we're talking - avr32 doesnt compete
05:56.41rasterit looks like its in the real low end space
05:56.53rasterits not really a matter of how good is it within its domain
05:57.11rasterits that it doesnt scale up to the 500mhz cortex-a8 range of performance
05:57.34*** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
05:57.48nihilthey arent far behind
05:58.28nihilive been playing with atmels ngw100 devboard
05:58.35nihilperforms much better than I thought it would
05:58.43*** part/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-095-208-018-011.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
05:58.56nihilhttp://atmel.com/dyn/products/devices.asp?family_id=682
05:59.01rasternihil:  compared to what?
05:59.14nihilcompared to every other embedded linux device ive seen
05:59.24*** join/#openmoko agg1n (n=jan@static-87-245-33-214.teleos-web.de)
05:59.26nihilrunning it on APs and such
05:59.28rasterdo you have some benchmark that can give a reasonable performance comparison?
06:00.06nihilnot in solid numbers no
06:00.19nihilbut the ass-dyno is impressed
06:00.24rasteras i said - best i know they are playing in the lower end space
06:00.31rasterie they'd possibly compete with armv4
06:00.35raster@ 400mhz
06:00.42raster(and of course be lower power)
06:00.53rasterbut thats still many factors behind armv7 cortex
06:01.02nihilso you're liking this omap3?
06:01.49rasteromap3 is about 4x the performance of the armv4 in the freerunner (clock for clock)
06:01.50rasterand yes
06:01.55rasteri've bene playing with it a fair bit
06:02.05rasterTI really are doing a good job supportign power management
06:02.29rasterwith a tickless kernel and their pm patches (going upstream to kernel) it really uses pretty much no power for the cpu core while idle
06:02.38nihilnice
06:02.40rasterit literally doesnt tick the clock and registers go into self-refresh
06:02.58rasterat least the numebrs i saw was it was measuring 0v 0a in the cpu core
06:02.59rasterwhen idle
06:03.12rasterit only uses pwoer when it actually serviced an interrupt
06:03.17rasteror actively computer
06:03.25rasteru still have a cost for memory refresh and other components
06:03.42rasterbut at least cpu core is now "out of the loop" as long as u keep it idle as much as u can
06:04.08nihilsounds like a nifty device
06:05.04rasterwell it is just a chip
06:05.05rastera soc
06:05.17rasterram and flash get put on in a pop arrangement
06:05.26rasterits micro-bga too
06:05.29rasterwhihc lends to some issues
06:05.34nihilugh bga
06:05.34raster(production ones)
06:05.49nihilI stand no chance of soldering that, even with a home-brew reflow oven
06:05.54rasterie finding a fab that can handle microbga
06:05.59rasteryeah
06:06.17rasterbut you get a cpu, multi-playfield display with 2 rgb and 2 yuv layers
06:06.31rastera 430mhz dsp core that can do 8 instruction issue per cycle
06:06.36rasterand a 3d core
06:06.44raster(sgx) and camera interfaces and a few other doobies
06:06.50rasterlots of usb and sio lines
06:06.52rastersdio
06:06.55rasterits a fairly nice chip
06:07.10nihilsounds like a plan, when can we expect to see your prototype? :)
06:07.12rasterin the scheme of things - its one of the best things to float by me in recent times
06:07.16rasterhahaha
06:07.22rasterthat depends on many factors
06:07.24rastermostly money
06:07.30nihilI'll buy one
06:08.46nihilhell, I'll buy two
06:08.55rasterhahaha
06:09.09raster<PROTECTED>
06:10.32*** join/#openmoko d-b (n=alias@unaffiliated/d-b)
06:10.50nihilpretty anodized CNC T-6 alum case
06:11.11nihilwith countersunk hex bolts
06:11.59nihilperhaps borrow a video ipod connector
06:12.10nihilseen several accessories that would go well with such a device
06:14.34rasteralum is a problem
06:14.35rasterRF
06:14.40nihiltrue
06:14.44nihilguess that rules out CF too
06:14.53rasterat best you could do partial metal
06:15.00rasteror a metal frame
06:15.04rasterwith plastic "panels"
06:15.13rasteron some/several sides
06:15.18rasteras a phone is RF-heaven
06:15.30raster(gsm/3g , wifi, bt, gps)
06:15.36rasterits tough to block off RF
06:15.56rasteru have to try keep the rf emittors away from eachother too
06:16.34nihilive got a buddy who is great with RF
06:16.48nihilI'm sure he could come up with something suitable
06:16.56rastersure
06:17.03rasterbut the real problem is
06:17.09rasteru have a prototype hand-build and hacked up
06:17.17rasterreally expensive as some bits were done in a fab as a 1-off
06:17.22raster(or maybe u made 5 of them)
06:17.24nihilyeah
06:17.24rasterwhat next?
06:17.24raster:)
06:17.50nihilnext is finalizing the design, sending it off to china to get made (and subsequently copied), then flood the market before they bring theirs out
06:18.06rastersending it off is a problem
06:18.13rasterin that u'll need to pay for all the units/components
06:18.17nihilwonder if olimex could handle that
06:18.24rasterand finalising the design, gettign fcc and ec certs
06:18.38nihiltelit modules are already FCC approved
06:18.42rasterhaving the factory have a propert test rig setup
06:18.46rasterand all the software for the test rig
06:18.47rasteretc.
06:18.48nihilas are many of the other necessary modules
06:18.49rastersure
06:18.50*** join/#openmoko knguyen_ (n=knguyen@ip72-200-109-252.tc.ph.cox.net)
06:18.50rastermodules are
06:18.55rasterbut u will need it for the rest too
06:19.00nihiltrue
06:19.03rasterie that the device as a whole complies
06:19.06*** join/#openmoko sleipnir (n=Sleipnir@p4FDD54A0.dip.t-dialin.net)
06:19.20rasterto be honest... i'm not a hardware guy
06:19.28rasterthis is just about the limit of what i know
06:19.44rasteri'm in software... all i want is a damned decent platform to bend to my evil will :)
06:23.50nihilsame here
06:24.02nihilmust be tiny, powerful, and open
06:27.53rastertiny is a problem
06:28.25rasteras u always have to make a compromise between screen size (ease to see stuff) vs size and longevity (battery size vs capacity)
06:28.30rasterso how tiny.. is tiny?
06:28.34*** join/#openmoko lpotter_ (n=ljp@58.173.176.153)
06:30.58*** join/#openmoko UndrWater (n=Russell_@pool-96-240-57-89.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
06:31.23UndrWaterwhat's the module for wifi on the FR?
06:31.39*** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@118-169-112-34.dynamic.hinet.net)
06:31.58rasterUndrWater: ar6000
06:32.34UndrWaterraster: thanks!
06:34.18raster:)
06:34.53UndrWaterdoes one modprobe that?  I've lost my GUI (SHR), so I'm trying to "turn on wifi"
06:35.00*** part/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-71-198-208-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
06:35.10nezza-_-UndrWater: taken a look in /sys?
06:35.26UndrWaternot yet...i will
06:36.24nezza-_-UndrWater: i think rfkill is the keyword
06:37.17*** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host26-28-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
06:37.40*** join/#openmoko mithris (n=mithris@ua-83-227-219-197.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
06:38.12*** join/#openmoko Piet (i=pietor@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xC5C71DCE)
06:38.32nezza-_-well.. if we're talking about powerful on the go.. how much power do we need? and where do we need the power? CPU? Memory? Graphics?
06:39.19raster"as much as you can get"
06:39.22rasteris the normal answer
06:39.23raster:)
06:39.33nihiloverkill is a good thing
06:40.07nezza-_-raster: sure ;-) but the cpu in the openmoko is powerful enough as i think
06:40.33rasterimho it isnt
06:40.44raster1. 640x480 is a lot of pixels to fill
06:40.55rasterthe gfx chip isnt really that good at that
06:41.43raster2. somethng like an omap3 is capable of even being a laptop
06:41.46rasterits powerful enough
06:42.06rasterthe more cpu grunt you have - the more freedom developers have
06:42.28nezza-_-well the graphics part is another thing.. the glamo is a huge problem
06:42.59rasterany gfx solution these days is closed
06:43.01rasterfor embedded
06:43.07rasterso u are left with software if u want open
06:43.12rasterthus - get all the cpu grunt u can get
06:43.35nezza-_-raster: sure.. but on the openmoko we can't use it for graphic output.. or am i wrong?
06:43.49*** join/#openmoko vivijim1 (n=vivijim@201.54.15.194.rev.neoviatelecom.com.br)
06:44.49PaulFertserUndrWater: One is supposed to use frameworkd odeviced interface to turn on wifi.
06:44.55rasternezza-_-: a cpu can always generate gfx
06:45.04rasterand the cpu on the freerunner has lcd out
06:45.15rasterit can drive an lcd and can a framebuffer
06:45.20rasterthe glamo is not needed for that
06:45.37nezza-_-raster: okay.. i thought the glamo is between the lcd and the cpu..
06:46.55*** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host70-133-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
06:47.40nihilgod I hate p2k
06:47.59rasternezza-_-:  on the freerunenr it is
06:48.10rasterbut the 2442 can work without the glamo and an lcd can be hooked to it
06:48.18nezza-_-raster: that was the point i was talking about :-)
06:49.09rasterbut the glamo just is a blob of ram
06:49.15rasteru can write to it like any other ram
06:49.20rasterits just very slow to write to it
06:49.21nezza-_-raster: sure, but it is slow
06:49.37rasterthe freerunner setup is fairly bad in that sense
06:49.51rasterits a really high-rese screen atached to the other end of a chip that has a really slow pipe going to it
06:50.01rasteru can do things with the cpu
06:50.07rasterbut its slow to get them out there
06:50.17rasterthe glamo itself only implements a subset of useful operations
06:50.21rasterand even then they are limited
06:50.30rasterit was designed more for wvga than vga res
06:50.32rastererr qvga
06:50.36rasterthat vga
06:50.38rasterthan
06:50.49nezza-_-raster: i know i know.. and the slow connection was the point i was complaining about..
06:50.56rasteryes
06:51.18rasteri'm wondering how this hooks into "how much power do we need? and where do we need the power? CPU? Memory? Graphics?"
06:51.20raster:)
06:51.27rasterie when talking a new soc
06:51.36rasterwe know the situation freerunner has
06:51.46nezza-_-< nezza-_-> raster: sure ;-) but the cpu in the openmoko is powerful enough as i think
06:52.02nezza-_-sorry, it's 8 o clock in the morning here ;-)
06:52.37rasterhmm
06:52.41rasterno
06:52.45rastereven thats not powerful enough
06:52.47rasterimho
06:52.48nezza-_-i'm a little bit tired and so i may not be able to get anything ;)
06:53.01rasterof course .. whats "enough"
06:53.08nihilhey raster, I don't suppose you know moto filesystem permission values?
06:53.09rasterif all u want is a solid color bg to your widgets
06:53.09nezza-_-raster: okay.. in my company we are working with some new omap processors, they are really fast
06:53.12rasterand simple bitmaps text
06:53.13rasterfine
06:53.19rasterif all uw ant is a static ui - sure
06:53.24rasterif u want to make it dynamic
06:53.24nezza-_-raster: no.. i want animations :-)
06:53.31rasteruse blending, animation, smooth scrolling etc.
06:53.36rasterthen u want all u can get
06:53.47rasternihil: moto?
06:53.51nihilmotorola
06:53.53nihilp2k
06:54.01rastererrr
06:54.05rasterwhihc ones
06:54.07rastersome run linux
06:54.11rasterand beats me whats on them tho
06:54.15nihilcdma
06:54.16rasteri've never poked around really
06:54.21nihilw755
06:54.23nihilnothing fancy
06:54.23nezza-_-sure. and it's important that things like screenrotation can be done 'in hardware'
06:54.44nihilsame basic setup as e815, v710, v3/rzr, etc...
06:54.54nihill7 and l6 fit in there too
06:54.57rasterdont know it :(
06:55.11rasteronly moto i have is a rokr 36
06:55.15nihilI've always been a die hard moto fan
06:55.20rasterand i never really fiddled with it beyond using it as a "real phone"
06:55.22nihilbut modding them is such a pain in the ass
06:55.32nihilthat's what prompted me to pull the trigger on the freerunner earlier this evening
06:55.55rasternezza-_-: put it this way. i think an omap3530 or 3535 or 3530 would be just the right thing
06:56.06rasterat maybe 480x320 or 320x640 (no higher)
06:56.08nezza-_-raster: we are putting it in this direction.
06:56.17rasterand u'd be able to have a very veyr very nice ui
06:56.22nezza-_-raster: but we use some 'higher' CPUs... as we have a large screen with 800x480
06:56.31nezza-_-s/higher/faster
06:56.35rasteri think it'd handle 800x480
06:56.39rasterin fact it is decent
06:56.44rasterbut i'd just not do that
06:56.46nezza-_-raster: sure, we're testing it already
06:56.50rastertho that depends on screen size
06:56.54rasteri am talking 3-4"
06:57.04nezza-_-well the screensize is around 8"
06:57.11rasteri have a s3x6410 driving 800x480 3.4"
06:57.11nezza-_-(no, it's not a netbook ;-) )
06:57.20rastererr s3c6410
06:57.27rasterthe omap3 is about 2.5x the speed of the 6410
06:57.34raster(on benchmarks)
06:57.50rasterand the 6410 imoh is "just" able to sanely drive the screen attached to it
06:58.00rasterso an omap3 would be "comfy" but not amazing
06:58.04rastergo down to 640x320
06:58.16rasterand u have to drive many fewer pixels and u'd go from "comfy" to "wow"
06:58.31nezza-_-well in the past we've used a AT91SAM9261.. so almost ANY omap would be better
06:59.03nezza-_-raster: i know i know.. but for our needs it runs really good on 800x480
06:59.19nezza-_-if we will run into trouble we will change the resolution
06:59.36nezza-_-but at the moment it's just so 'sharp & crispy'
06:59.42rasteryeah
07:00.33nezza-_-raster: by the way i've just finished a product which uses EDJE..  I will send you a description via email :-)
07:01.00rasterawesome!
07:01.14nezza-_-raster: yes.. the people who are using it are really pleased with it :-)
07:01.21rastercool
07:01.22nezza-_-thanks for your great work!
07:01.27rastermind u i accept it has its limits
07:01.32rasterby all means
07:01.42rasterits trying to walk a fine line between desgner and programmer
07:01.54rasterallowing non-coders the ability to do layout and design and animation
07:02.18nezza-_-sure, but for 'non-coders' the documentation is not good enough at the moment i think :)
07:03.09nezza-_-and actually i'm working on something which uses elementary.. http://0x2a-blog.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/podcastepisodes.png
07:04.31rasteryeah
07:04.33rasterdocs suck atm
07:04.57rasterthats always a problem
07:05.06rasteraaah cool
07:05.09rasteran rss feed reader
07:05.17rasterloosk simple - but thats the point
07:05.25rasterits meant to look simple but attractive
07:07.28*** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@114-45-173-164.dynamic.hinet.net)
07:07.32*** part/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@114-45-173-164.dynamic.hinet.net)
07:08.23nezza-_-raster: yes.. it's simple and effective
07:08.27nezza-_-easy to use on a touchscreen
07:09.01*** join/#openmoko booxter_ (n=booxter@80.249.92.139)
07:10.49rasternezza-_-:  thats its main goal for now
07:10.54rastermust be ts friendly first
07:11.00rasteri am keeping desktop in mind
07:11.02rasterand so on
07:11.07rasterbut thats a "lower priority"
07:11.22*** part/#openmoko UndrWater (n=Russell_@pool-96-240-57-89.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
07:11.37nezza-_-raster: i'm thinking about writing a configuration tool for our touchscreen devices in elementary.. as it is simple to use and fast to write
07:12.26rasternezza-_-: thats good to hear
07:12.33rasterif elementary is "hard" i'd like to know
07:12.36rasteri know its different
07:12.40rasterand docs are not abundant
07:12.48nezza-_-well some things are difficult to realize..
07:12.54rastertho the test.c code does serve as a decent example
07:13.05nezza-_-for instance the huge api difference between list and toolbar
07:13.06rasterbut you do need to get youre head into it
07:13.30nezza-_-in it's default state no element of a toolbar is selected
07:13.38rasterhmmm
07:13.42nezza-_-but if you click on one it is selected, but you can't just deselect it
07:13.47rastertrue
07:13.48nezza-_-in lists it is no problem
07:14.00rastertho i kind of left that up to the code to indicate which one to select :)
07:14.22rasteri think that though is me not finishing off toolbar
07:14.25rasterit should have 2 modes
07:14.27rastera select mode
07:14.29rasterwhihc it kind of does now
07:14.32rasterand a "run mode"
07:14.33nezza-_-raster: sure, but sometimes the toolbar is just a good 'button row' ;-)
07:14.47rasterwhcih is more a matter that u press a toolbar item and it "does something" ones
07:14.49nezza-_-or 2 types of elements
07:14.50rasterthen goes unselected
07:15.04*** join/#openmoko janrikard (n=rikard@ip-83-209-13-38.cenara.com)
07:15.12nezza-_-yes.. because if you click on it if it's already selected nothing will happen ;)
07:15.36rasteryeah
07:15.46rasteri think i just need to clear up the usability there
07:15.54rasterso it does all of what i wanted from it
07:16.31nezza-_-but test.c is a very good documentation.. even though i still don't get some things ;)
07:17.26rasterhahaha
07:17.27rastergood!
07:17.32rasteri need to do more examples
07:17.35rasterbut its a start
07:17.51rastercombines actually writing code (need somethnig to drive the api) and testing and docs in 1
07:17.52*** join/#openmoko sunbear17 (n=sunbear1@cl-9.muc-02.de.sixxs.net)
07:18.13Hopscotchgood morning
07:18.31rasterhops on Hopscotch
07:18.33raster:)
07:19.18*** join/#openmoko ozzloy (n=ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy)
07:22.06*** join/#openmoko fredrin (n=workingn@186-212-231-201.fibertel.com.ar)
07:23.07PaulFertserHahaha, Steve finally officialy comments on the buzz fix issue :)
07:24.04*** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
07:24.10huskuPaulFertser: url?
07:25.12PaulFertserhusku: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-March/044493.html
07:25.46huskuthx
07:28.18fredrinso the Buzz is justa A6 rev issue?
07:29.04nezza-_-raster: so how far is the 'wifi in bootloader' project? =P
07:29.57rasterooh that
07:30.05rasterkexec handles that
07:30.11rasternot sure how totally useful that is
07:30.13rasterbut hey
07:30.14raster:)
07:30.31nezza-_-raster: ;-)
07:30.52PaulFertserfredrin: the buzz is universal issue affecting all phone prior to reworked A6.
07:30.55*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@89.143.150.239)
07:31.00*** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-088-065-087-099.pools.arcor-ip.net)
07:31.10PaulFertserfredrin: the buzz from external headset is an issue affecting all devices prior to A8.
07:32.14fredrinbut if you use a2dp headset your cool? right?
07:39.16*** join/#openmoko mirko-paroli (n=mirko@80.251.192.2)
07:41.41*** join/#openmoko knguyen (n=knguyen@wireless-23-39.uawifi.arizona.edu)
07:46.45*** join/#openmoko joejoe (n=imlich@129.187.227.207)
07:49.18*** join/#openmoko anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5B07E658.dip.t-dialin.net)
07:49.36PaulFertserfredrin: no
07:49.42PaulFertserfredrin: a2dp is uni-directional.
07:50.01*** join/#openmoko sth0R (n=sth0R@123.146.70.199)
07:54.00*** join/#openmoko wd_ (n=wd@in.soviet.russia.brains.suxx.us)
07:57.28*** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p549BC601.dip.t-dialin.net)
07:59.24*** join/#openmoko freerunnerlive (n=ernst@p57B5FFBE.dip.t-dialin.net)
08:02.27*** join/#openmoko poco (n=neil@vau06-1-89-85-32-52.dsl.club-internet.fr)
08:03.06*** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-77-11.dsl.scarlet.be)
08:04.11*** join/#openmoko polaru (n=polaru@93.113.192.70)
08:07.13*** join/#openmoko azaghal (n=azaghal@149.231.178.212.adsl.dyn.beotel.net)
08:10.53PaulFertserfredrin: but bluetooth headsets with mic support SCO (HSP or HFP) so it should be cool without any buzz and echo issues.
08:11.16*** join/#openmoko simon__ (n=simon@cpe90-146-223-204.liwest.at)
08:11.22fredrinPaulFertser: :)
08:12.31PaulFertserfredrin: why don't you want to try it yourself? FSO already has some support.
08:12.52fredrinPaulFertser: need to buy a headset first
08:12.56*** part/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p549BC601.dip.t-dialin.net)
08:13.15PaulFertserfredrin: you better borrow it.
08:13.31fredrintrue
08:14.21PaulFertserfredrin: looks like not all headsets are compatible, at least the cheapest one i borrowed from my friend had some strange SCO issues (everything worked except there was no sound at all); and the one i borrowed from a co-worker worked fine (i didn't test GSM, only SCO sound output) with exactly the same configuration.
08:22.11*** join/#openmoko knguyen_ (n=knguyen@wireless-23-16.uawifi.arizona.edu)
08:34.00*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.196.61.1)
08:34.53*** join/#openmoko two3four (n=erik@81-233-151-113-no82.business.telia.com)
08:35.00*** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@62.196.2.6)
08:40.35PaulFertser"Tried fscking and it didn't seem to fix the problem." :) yeah, f*cking rarely helps to fix problems.
08:42.09CVirusROFL
08:43.01*** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@nat/redhat/x-f7db4196f0e7bb7d)
08:50.39huskuPaulFertser: well, it fixes some problems. at least with wife :)
08:53.01tomboy64and not to forget, it relaxes *tremendously* :)
08:59.49*** join/#openmoko booxter_ (n=booxter@cpmsq.epam.com)
09:03.17CViruswtf are you guys talking about !!
09:03.22CVirusfsck - check and repair a Linux file system
09:03.29CVirusthat's all what it does
09:03.55CVirusfsck --wife /dev/pussy
09:03.57CVirusLOL
09:07.01methril|workmorning
09:09.35PaulFertserCVirus: fsck.vwife --pretend /dev/dummy
09:10.17*** join/#openmoko panicking (n=Michael@77.224.194.88)
09:10.20CViruslol
09:10.43*** join/#openmoko serdar1 (n=Serdar@wwwmail.uni-duesseldorf.de)
09:10.52CVirusPaulFertser: this is equivalent to the "masturbate" command :-p
09:11.20PaulFertserCVirus: you got the point :)
09:11.25CVirushaha
09:11.33PaulFertserProbably offtopic here.
09:11.42CVirusyeah .. I gotta get back to studying anyways .. later
09:11.48PaulFertserwonders if _that_ can be offtopic on any IRC channel.
09:16.04*** join/#openmoko |Leto| (n=tomboy64@e178049231.adsl.alicedsl.de)
09:18.27*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@89.143.150.239)
09:21.50*** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.172.33.101)
09:21.53*** join/#openmoko pazante (n=patrik@user113.77-105-224.netatonce.net)
09:22.30*** join/#openmoko alexxy (n=alexxy@gentoo/developer/alexxy)
09:22.39*** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@fsf/member/zedstar)
09:27.36*** join/#openmoko morphis (n=morphis@hfw-ext-wlan.rz.hs-bremen.de)
09:27.56*** join/#openmoko morphis (n=morphis@hfw-ext-wlan.rz.hs-bremen.de)
09:29.30*** join/#openmoko tig| (n=Tig|@aurix.plus.com)
09:40.54*** join/#openmoko knguyen (n=knguyen@wireless-23-23.uawifi.arizona.edu)
09:44.01*** join/#openmoko valos[fr] (n=valos@coquelicot-adsl.easter-eggs.com)
10:01.25*** join/#openmoko N-Mi__ (n=nicolas@193.253.42.6)
10:03.55*** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@ppp91-122-27-236.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru)
10:04.56*** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@217.113.163.70)
10:07.51*** join/#openmoko tholin_lap (n=tholin@113.130.218.80)
10:08.01*** join/#openmoko weirdedout (n=gonePost@220-253-45-191.VIC.netspace.net.au)
10:22.07panickingHi all
10:22.09panicking:)
10:29.51*** join/#openmoko surf2me (i=c1aa2adb@unixboard/users/surf2me)
10:31.52*** join/#openmoko morphis_ (n=morphis@hfw-ext-wlan.rz.hs-bremen.de)
10:32.14*** join/#openmoko ndrs__ (n=andres@89.100.140.238)
10:33.39*** join/#openmoko kore_ (n=kore@busimess.org)
10:40.34*** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@g226144090.adsl.alicedsl.de)
10:43.04serdar1hey panicking
10:45.12panickingserdar1, hi
10:45.48serdar1panicking: did your fileserver changed?
10:45.57panickingwhy
10:45.57serdar1it was slow last time
10:46.00panicking?
10:46.54*** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@195.32.70.17)
10:48.12*** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@217.113.163.70)
10:49.18*** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178049231.adsl.alicedsl.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
10:49.19panickingseeseekey, i think that i don't remove the traffic shape
10:49.29panickingserdar1, i think that i don't remove the traffic shape
10:49.40panickingseeseekey, sorry wrong user
10:49.47*** join/#openmoko jpieper (n=jpieper@207-180-187-171.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com)
10:57.51serdar1panicking: you need better connection?
10:59.01panickingserdar1, the server is an ixp425 with an usb pendrive in my home
10:59.14serdar1I have a server my own
10:59.28serdar1I have a call, we talk it later, brb
11:01.51*** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@93.84.112.66)
11:02.02panickingok
11:03.30*** join/#openmoko freerunnerlive (n=ernst@p57B5C212.dip.t-dialin.net)
11:04.31serdar1panicking: I want create a openmoko blog for me, and I can share your files too, if you want
11:05.12panickingperfect
11:05.17panickingI can add as a mirror
11:05.22panickingin dowload page
11:05.32*** join/#openmoko freerunnerlive1 (n=ernst@p57B5C5F2.dip.t-dialin.net)
11:06.00*** join/#openmoko knguyen (n=knguyen@ip70-176-108-142.ph.ph.cox.net)
11:06.09serdar1okay, I am at work now, cannot do a thing now, and tonight I have to do with redcross, when are you available here?
11:06.21serdar1I was looking for you few weeks ago :D
11:06.52*** join/#openmoko freerunnerlive1 (n=ernst@p57B5C5F2.dip.t-dialin.net)
11:07.29*** join/#openmoko wanders_ (n=andersg@0x63.nu)
11:13.58serdar1panicking: is 1G space enough?
11:14.27panickingI use less that 100mb
11:14.58*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@89.143.150.239)
11:16.28serdar1hmm okay than 100m
11:16.53serdar1I have only 2 Tb traffic, hope it is enough
11:20.39panickingyes :) I think so
11:21.34henkserdar1: if it gets too much i could provide a mirror too without traffic limit.
11:22.25serdar1henk: that is my whole limit
11:22.31serdar1for my server :)
11:22.48*** join/#openmoko Kero (n=kero@213.46.74.199)
11:23.55*** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-095-208-018-011.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
11:24.34henkserdar1: what do you mean?
11:24.49serdar1henk: traffic limit for a server?
11:25.01henkserdar1: 2tb per month?
11:25.06serdar1yes
11:25.18henkwould be more than enough for my server...
11:26.48henki've used 16G since start of the year 'g'
11:26.54*** join/#openmoko mirko-paroli (n=mirko@cust-IP-11.data.tre.se)
11:30.30panickingserdar1, can you send me an email, with the details. I must help one friend with his business
11:30.32panicking:)
11:32.47*** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@91-113-121-186.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
11:33.08serdar1panicking: I am at work too :)
11:33.53*** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@140.78.104.186)
11:34.25*** join/#openmoko agg1n (n=jan@static-87-245-33-214.teleos-web.de)
11:35.28*** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
11:40.35*** join/#openmoko tjikkun (n=tjikkun@195-240-122-237.ip.telfort.nl)
11:45.18*** join/#openmoko xkr47 (i=xkr47@a88-112-18-173.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
11:57.01*** join/#openmoko Derick (n=derick@jdi.jdi-ict.nl)
11:57.47*** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@g226144090.adsl.alicedsl.de)
11:58.37Derickthis is odd, my screen powers down even when I am using applications
11:58.50Derickany idea why that could be?
12:02.50*** join/#openmoko tig|1 (n=Tig|@aurix2.plus.com)
12:07.41SM2kDerick: which distro?
12:12.25DerickFSO 5.1
12:12.29*** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201.45.49.162)
12:12.32Derickit just started doing this
12:12.38Derickrebooting now to see if that does things
12:12.46*** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun)
12:12.46DerickI was heavy using it (compiling on it)
12:12.53Derickperhaps it messed up some video memory
12:13.49CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r681bad1ab327 10/vapi/ecore.vapi: vapi: EcoreFdHandler is new class, might make constructor a static method (inline with GDir and friends?)
12:13.51CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r7ed3c2a7b278 10/examples/library/mainloops.vala:
12:13.51CIA-54freesmartphone.org: example/library: read from E mainloop
12:13.51CIA-54freesmartphone.org: bidirectional communication indication seems to work now
12:13.51CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r77446381b648 10/ (7 files in 3 dirs): eflvala: move first bits into library
12:13.54CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * rfa97bd857224 10/ (Makefile.am configure.ac examples/Makefile.am): make library optional; improve wording
12:14.34SM2kyou're... compiling on the phone. you know a cross compiler might be faster.
12:14.48shellevilfor small stuff, not really.
12:14.52Derickit is, but it caused issues with the linker... libtool
12:14.57shellevilIt's not a slow processor.
12:15.08Derickand messing with libtool is going to take a hell of a lot more time
12:15.14shellevilCompared to state of the art a decade ago say.
12:15.19DerickI found many broken things though... mostly gtk .la files that are broken
12:15.26Derickhow would I go about fixing those in the distro?
12:16.33Derickhmm, now it even does it while booting (and not boot)
12:17.14Derickoh wait, I was beein impatient
12:17.58*** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@g226144090.adsl.alicedsl.de)
12:23.56*** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-095-208-018-011.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
12:26.17freerunnerlive1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UB6peyst3M
12:26.35*** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E1610F.dip.t-dialin.net)
12:28.19*** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback)
12:28.56*** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178049231.adsl.alicedsl.de)
12:29.06*** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=toi@d54C2AAB7.access.telenet.be)
12:33.24Any_Keyfreerunnerlive1: nice
12:36.19*** join/#openmoko morphis (n=morphis@hfw-ext-wlan.rz.hs-bremen.de)
12:36.38morphishmpf odd vpn client ...
12:41.02*** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178049231.adsl.alicedsl.de)
12:43.04freerunnerlive1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW7jitXrfUI
12:44.45*** part/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-095-208-018-011.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
12:44.54laenHehe, http://koolu.org can has open dir.
12:46.41*** join/#openmoko [-zeno-] (n=zeno@host194-26-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
12:46.55*** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
12:47.11*** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-095-208-018-011.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
12:49.05*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@89.143.150.239)
12:49.22*** join/#openmoko edje2 (n=chatzill@ckpceka.ipv6.kapitein.org)
12:50.59*** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@ecg.fri.uni-lj.si)
12:56.37*** join/#openmoko vivijim1 (n=vivijim@189-38-252-191.static-corp.ajato.com.br)
13:02.27*** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@ecg.fri.uni-lj.si)
13:05.38*** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i577B64F1.versanet.de)
13:07.48*** join/#openmoko SM2k (n=stu@cpe-071-070-211-081.nc.res.rr.com)
13:07.49*** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host70-133-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
13:12.59Derickseems to be solved now btw
13:13.09DerickI now have php+gtk+dbus all nicely working
13:15.04saracen_I've just got a message that my storage is full for text messages - if I put the memory card in will this change matters? I assumed the phone could store a fair amount of them.
13:15.40Dericksaracen_: afaik they're stored on the SIM, which has a limited capacity
13:15.42*** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host26-28-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
13:15.55saracen_Yeah, my sim hardly stores any ;x
13:16.28mjrbasically the software stack, whatever you're currently using, needs to get support for slurping the messages to the phone memory and freeing the sim
13:17.00saracen_using shr atm =(
13:17.39*** join/#openmoko ScarEye (n=scareye@12.27.87.66)
13:19.02*** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@monitor.interfree.it)
13:23.12*** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD45111.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:26.17*** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@216.231.62.127)
13:32.18*** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@g226144090.adsl.alicedsl.de)
13:37.32*** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84.226.255.76)
13:43.12*** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@unaffiliated/jaebird)
13:48.43*** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=ibex@d51A515D7.access.telenet.be)
13:51.37*** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-088-066-103-178.pools.arcor-ip.net)
13:52.19CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r0417b49d649b 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): examples: remove direct writing into the queue from mainloop example
13:54.50*** join/#openmoko morphis (n=morphis@hfw-ext-wlan.rz.hs-bremen.de)
13:55.36*** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
13:56.17CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * rd2869fbeb707 10/README: README: Elementary.h no longer needs patching
13:57.36DocScrutinizersaracen_: FSO should download SMS from SIM/modem-storage to userland
13:58.00*** join/#openmoko slchen (n=slchen@122-116-241-177.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
13:58.57*** join/#openmoko two3four (n=erik@81-233-151-113-no82.business.telia.com)
13:59.08DocScrutinizermjr: basically *not* phone-mem but actually "computer"-mem. phone-mem is consideered to reside inside calypso
14:02.15*** join/#openmoko Sharwin_F (n=Sharwin_@90.163.58.97)
14:03.04mjrokay, semantics, but I suppose that terminology is well-founded
14:03.13*** join/#openmoko Gyb (n=Gyb@f053154148.adsl.alicedsl.de)
14:03.32mjranyway, off the SIM to some other persistent storage :)
14:04.56*** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
14:11.40*** part/#openmoko Derick (n=derick@jdi.jdi-ict.nl)
14:11.55saracen_DocScrutinizer: So, a formatted microsd card should do the trick?
14:13.09DocScrutinizerfirst of all you need to find out why it doesn't happen right now
14:13.37saracen_Well, the microsd card isnt in. Or do you mean it should already be saving them to the phones memory?
14:14.15DocScrutinizerif your NAND is completely crowded so not a single sms may fit, it might help to use uSD for aux storage
14:14.44*** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176099095.adsl.alicedsl.de)
14:15.12DocScrutinizeryup, as inget it they should be moved to nand storage usually
14:15.25shellevil'Please write down the following SMSs on the auxilliary storage post-its provided.'
14:15.34DocScrutinizers/ing3/i ge/
14:18.21saracen_hmm, weird, got plenty of memory left, as displayed by df
14:19.55*** join/#openmoko ptitjes (n=didier@247.73.198-77.rev.gaoland.net)
14:21.03*** part/#openmoko ptitjes (n=didier@247.73.198-77.rev.gaoland.net)
14:21.09mrmokusaracen_: SHR has sms still on SIM only
14:23.30DocScrutinizersaracen_: nevermind my nonsense
14:23.32DocScrutinizersorry
14:27.19*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.3.74)
14:29.57*** join/#openmoko morphis (n=morphis@hfw-ext-wlan.rz.hs-bremen.de)
14:31.29*** join/#openmoko edgar (n=christop@cm56-141-251.liwest.at)
14:32.43*** join/#openmoko gcwilson (n=gcwilson@cpe-70-112-190-84.austin.res.rr.com)
14:40.10*** join/#openmoko lol_h (n=laurent@ip-213-49-78-133.dsl.scarlet.be)
14:42.58*** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=KenSentM@unaffiliated/kensentme)
14:44.15*** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@g226144090.adsl.alicedsl.de)
14:46.43*** join/#openmoko larry_jr (n=Larry@200.184.118.130)
14:57.32*** join/#openmoko nio__ (n=nio@86.92.255.117)
14:57.35*** join/#openmoko Jack_Flame (n=dani@net-93-148-230-224.t2.dsl.vodafone.it)
14:57.53*** part/#openmoko Jack_Flame (n=dani@net-93-148-230-224.t2.dsl.vodafone.it)
14:58.24*** join/#openmoko TimRiker (i=timr@2002:ad75:e858:0:0:0:0:1)
14:58.41*** join/#openmoko moo--- (n=quassel@80.75.108.12)
14:59.11CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r87b827ce9909 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): ophoned: use prefrences to configure the headset
14:59.12CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r66e764b8a0fe 10/framework/ (4 files in 2 dirs): opreferencesd: enforce types in SetValue
15:01.29nezza-_-|work<PROTECTED>
15:07.34*** join/#openmoko morphis (n=morphis@hfw-ext-wlan.rz.hs-bremen.de)
15:09.03*** join/#openmoko eolson (n=eolson@anlextwls097-000.wl.anl-external.org)
15:15.14*** part/#openmoko nemik (n=cyanact@c-67-173-76-34.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
15:15.50*** join/#openmoko HellDragon (i=jd@modemcable022.187-203-24.mc.videotron.ca)
15:19.19*** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-78-133.dsl.scarlet.be)
15:20.03*** join/#openmoko bumbl (n=bumbl@91-114-185-57.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
15:22.44*** join/#openmoko Digital_Pioneer (n=digitalp@192.133.129.3)
15:26.20*** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro)
15:27.21*** join/#openmoko fradeve (n=fradeve@87.19.76.196)
15:27.48Chocksalldave.
15:27.54fradevecould someone explain me how "Timeouts settings" in SHR works?
15:27.59Chocksheh
15:28.10Chockswhat is your problem?
15:28.35fradeveI don't understand the difference in lock, idle_prelock, idle and idle_dim
15:28.37*** join/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin)
15:28.57*** join/#openmoko Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
15:29.25Digital_PioneerAck, my GUI is completely dead.
15:30.30*** join/#openmoko Digital-Pioneer (n=digitalp@192.133.129.3)
15:30.49Digital_Pioneer<PROTECTED>
15:31.08Chockshow did you get to that state?
15:31.30Digital_PioneerIf I run Xglamo manually, I get an X screen, but I can't run enlightenment_start with it, it dies because of some missing function in a library or something...
15:31.42Chocksheh. upgrade *all* your libraries.
15:32.02Digital_PioneerI'm doing an `opkg upgrade` now.
15:32.16Digital_PioneerIt's upgrading quite a bit, as is common for SHR-U.
15:33.07Digital_PioneerOh, I know what it did.
15:33.25Digital_PioneerIt failed in the middle of an opkg upgrade I did earlier...
15:33.36Digital_PioneerHeheh
15:33.39Chocks:p
15:33.42Chocksblames navit
15:35.11Digital_Pioneerdoesn't have Navit. Ditched it.
15:35.17Chocks:o
15:35.28Digital_PioneerCouldn't figure out the UI.
15:36.31Chocksnods
15:36.36*** join/#openmoko ssweeny_ (n=scott@pool-96-236-165-148.pitbpa.east.verizon.net)
15:36.37Chocksplus it broke opkg upgrade
15:45.16*** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i59F7F6D0.versanet.de)
15:46.00Digital_PioneerIs libimlib2-loaders supposed to be replacing imlib2?
15:46.08*** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.88.36.205)
15:47.16Chocksmoo
15:48.38*** join/#openmoko gaba1 (n=gaba@r190-135-48-74.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy)
15:49.17*** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@monitor.interfree.it)
15:53.25*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh)
15:53.43*** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@g226144090.adsl.alicedsl.de)
16:02.34*** join/#openmoko agg1n (n=jan@87.245.33.214)
16:05.01*** join/#openmoko wd (n=wd@in.soviet.russia.brains.suxx.us)
16:05.49*** join/#openmoko morphis (n=morphis@hfw-ext-wlan.rz.hs-bremen.de)
16:06.23*** join/#openmoko gcwilson (n=gcwilson@32.97.110.59)
16:08.23*** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-078-042-071-198.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
16:08.33PBeckahoi
16:11.06*** join/#openmoko gnutoo_ (n=gnutoo@host169-162-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
16:11.16Chocksahoy
16:11.29dentahoj
16:12.02Chocksahough
16:13.05*** join/#openmoko dougt_ (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
16:13.08*** part/#openmoko dougt_ (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
16:17.22*** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
16:23.57*** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@vpn.yellowpages.com)
16:24.21*** join/#openmoko eolson (n=eolson@anlextwls097-000.wl.anl-external.org)
16:29.42*** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=Free_maN@217.174.199.201)
16:31.21Sharwin_Fhmm how do I untar a .tar.bz2 in the neo?
16:31.36Chocksopkg install tar
16:31.42Chockswill make your life easier
16:31.44Sharwin_F<PROTECTED>
16:31.44Sharwin_Ftar: invalid option -- j
16:31.55Chocksbusybox tar is sucky
16:31.59cjb$ bunzip2 archive.tar.bz2
16:32.06cjb$ tar xf archive.tar
16:33.38Sharwin_Fok thanks :)
16:33.50*** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.172.33.101)
16:34.23Chockscurses complex routing issues.
16:34.47*** join/#openmoko joejoe (n=imlich@129.187.227.207)
16:34.54*** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman)
16:39.22*** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@cpe90-146-223-204.liwest.at)
16:40.04*** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman)
16:43.13*** join/#openmoko dougt_ (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
16:43.22*** join/#openmoko JanC (n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC)
16:43.22*** join/#openmoko felipe_ (n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se)
16:44.11*** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.88.36.205)
16:44.57*** part/#openmoko dougt_ (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
16:45.12*** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun)
16:45.14*** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman)
16:47.01*** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@dsl081-165-076.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
16:50.25*** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman)
16:51.57*** join/#openmoko sunbear17 (n=sunbear1@cl-9.muc-02.de.sixxs.net)
16:55.48*** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman)
16:58.26*** join/#openmoko two34 (n=erik@c83-251-59-237.bredband.comhem.se)
16:59.00*** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=toi@d54C2AAB7.access.telenet.be)
17:00.45*** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman)
17:02.40*** part/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-095-208-018-011.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
17:05.55*** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=Free_maN@unaffiliated/freeman)
17:06.25*** join/#openmoko tombhadAC (n=tombhad@pD95DFBAA.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:12.11*** part/#openmoko andylockran (n=andy@87.117.230.179)
17:12.57*** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (n=AntonTak@poolofdespair.net)
17:14.49*** join/#openmoko blan (n=blan@HSI-KBW-082-212-048-118.hsi.kabelbw.de)
17:19.12*** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun)
17:23.47*** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-078-042-071-198.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
17:26.07*** join/#openmoko s_p (n=digy@77.241.163.216)
17:29.14*** join/#openmoko zobi8225 (n=zobi8225@jem75-11-88-188-163-1.fbx.proxad.net)
17:31.25*** join/#openmoko Digital_Pioneer (n=digitalp@192.133.129.3)
17:33.24*** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD45111.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:34.26*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@89.143.150.239)
17:38.12*** join/#openmoko divanorama (n=divan@ivanco.convex.ru)
17:38.24*** part/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@89.143.150.239)
17:38.25*** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun)
17:39.49*** join/#openmoko khorben (n=dont@port-83-236-217-161.static.qsc.de)
17:41.54*** join/#openmoko jonsmith1982 (n=jon@82-38-88-58.cable.ubr01.donc.blueyonder.co.uk)
17:44.55*** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@93.84.112.66)
17:45.10*** join/#openmoko Amygos (n=amygos@151.49.235.255)
17:45.46*** join/#openmoko vinimacs (n=vininim@deneb.grad.dcc.ufmg.br)
17:46.23vinimacsDoes framework implement agpsd?
17:49.09*** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g229214188.adsl.alicedsl.de)
17:49.21*** join/#openmoko agg1n (n=jan@static-87-245-35-140.teleos-web.de)
17:53.11*** join/#openmoko peelooo (n=peeloo@gar31-2-82-224-211-191.fbx.proxad.net)
17:53.54peelooohi all, i tried to install android on my GTA02 last night, but somthing happened and the phone is now blocked on boot
17:54.13peeloooon fso: block at agnstrom login - on android: loop on robot screen
17:54.40Chocksyou need to prepare your SD card exactly, or android gets all upset.
17:55.04*** join/#openmoko vivijim1 (n=vivijim@200.198.122.2)
17:55.14peeloooChocks: yes, i followed the tuto, worked on first time, but reflash it and got upset
17:55.28Chockshow is it "upset"?
17:55.33*** join/#openmoko janrikard (n=rikard@95.209.6.229.bredband.tre.se)
17:55.41peelooolooping on robot screen
17:55.58peelooorobot flashing, stop flashing, screen reload, loop
17:56.04Chockswhich version did you try?
17:56.14ChocksMichael's cupcake image is at present the best one.
17:56.28Chockswith right kernel.
17:56.50peeloooa mix a various uImage-vXX and cupcake/no-cupcake
17:57.07Chocksif you mix and match you could have problems.
17:57.12Chockss/could/will/
17:57.22peeloooyes, I confirm :)
17:57.54Chocksplus delete the crap from your SD card if you change versions.
17:58.13peeloooI've tried to restore uboot and fso, removing the sd, but still block on angstrom login prompt
17:58.30Chocksblock?
17:58.51peeloooI just got the login prompt, it doesn't go further
17:59.06Chockswhich login prompt?  ssh, or some FSO thing on screen?
17:59.18peeloooon the screen
17:59.31peeloooom-gta02 login:_
18:00.31peelooocould it be because I installed Qi to use android? should it be configure to start the system another way?
18:00.53*** join/#openmoko samgee (n=samgee@212.36-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
18:03.30*** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@12.186.229.30)
18:03.38peeloooi'll try to pass the prompt and let you know ;)
18:11.19*** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.88.36.205)
18:19.45*** join/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@95.89.148.250)
18:23.43*** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=christoo@89.142.99.170)
18:26.04*** join/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin)
18:34.38*** join/#openmoko polymar_ (n=polymar@12.186.229.30)
18:35.20*** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-088-065-087-099.pools.arcor-ip.net)
18:37.30*** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-155-247-190.range86-155.btcentralplus.com)
18:48.02*** join/#openmoko amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-134-152.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net)
18:50.15*** join/#openmoko leinir (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir)
18:50.21DaveLEINIR
18:50.47leinircurtsies "Sir" :)
18:52.44ChocksD.
18:53.22*** join/#openmoko rwhitby` (n=rwhitby@au1.astc-design.com)
18:53.31*** join/#openmoko Piet (i=pietor@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xC5C71DCE)
18:54.58Chocksmoo.
18:55.42DaveIndeed.
18:55.48*** join/#openmoko PinDemon (n=PinDemon@89.131.25.103)
18:57.11*** join/#openmoko rooly (n=CAC@adsl-227-0-198.jan.bellsouth.net)
18:57.20Chocksrools!
18:57.21roolyya hoo
18:57.26roolyhas a brand new nephew
18:57.31rooly9lbs, 9oz, 21"
18:57.32Chockso:
18:57.39Chockswhat OS?
18:57.56roolynot sure yet
18:58.02*** join/#openmoko losinggeneration (n=losingge@ics184-9.icsincorporated.com)
18:58.07roolymight be a dual boot methodist/catholic
18:58.12Chocksuh oh.
18:58.24Chocksdepressed _and_ guilty.
18:58.53roolyboy don't you have alot to learn about catholics
18:59.01roolyand methodists for that matter
18:59.20Chocks"a lot".
18:59.35Chockssuggests he already knows far too much about both.
18:59.51roolydo you know any educated members?
19:00.02Chocksoh dear.  
19:00.15ChocksYes, I talk to the pope each week.
19:00.38*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@BSN-142-99-170.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
19:00.40roolydon't make a statement like that without the ability to back it up
19:00.44Daverooly!
19:00.47roolyyo dave
19:01.09Chocksright, and the pope shouldn't make statements about condoms he doesn't understand.
19:01.14Chockswhat's your point?
19:01.20Davefuck the pope
19:01.25Chocks:o
19:01.29Davehe's not even running 3.0
19:01.30*** join/#openmoko zelegolas (n=zelegola@ip216-239-67-175.vif.net)
19:01.41roolycondoms he does understand
19:01.51Daveoh yeah?
19:02.30roolyjust because the pope is celibate doesn't mean he's necissarily a virgin
19:02.55roolyso like i said
19:02.55nihilof course, by allowing condom/contraceptive use amongst his followers, he is limiting chance of reproduction, which means less fresh meat to brainwash
19:03.16roolydon't make a statement like that when you have no way of backing it up
19:03.35roolywhat up dave
19:03.37roolyhow ya's doin
19:03.37Chocksshame.  Christians do that all the time.
19:03.46DaveWatch out, you might offend rooly and his religious view :P
19:03.48Daveviews
19:03.54nihilhas anyone found a larger capacity battery for the FR?
19:03.58roolyChocks, they sure do. And i tell them the same thing
19:04.05Chocksgood.
19:04.07Chockspats.
19:04.22mmontournihil: not that I've seen (except for external ones that provide USB power)
19:04.25SM2khttps://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1946 << that's one nasty bug.
19:04.25ChocksAnd in all fairness, my knowledge of methodists is quite limited.
19:04.35Chocksanyway.
19:05.05nihilmmontour: thanks, I wonder if the spacer casing that one company made would accomodate a larger battery instead of their multimedia receiver
19:05.24ChocksFR is already too phat.
19:05.32nihiltrue
19:05.50Daverooly, you gettin' hitched soon? ;p
19:05.55roolyme? no
19:05.59roolywhy?
19:06.00Davehahaha
19:06.03Davenothing :P
19:06.07Davejust thought I'd ask for the hell of it
19:06.19roolyif i knew the right girl, maybe
19:06.22Daveand No, I'm not mocking your dating success in any way :)
19:06.27Daveyeah, exactly
19:06.28Chocks:o
19:06.34Davesame
19:06.35nihilhttp://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6565189083.html
19:06.47nihilvery thick with that spacer
19:07.03Chocksnihil: ew ;-)
19:07.21*** join/#openmoko DeVol (i=DeVol@dD576BB91.access.telenet.be)
19:07.22nihilI bet you could cram some serious battery in it though
19:07.39Chocksyes.  and put a serious bulge in your trousers.
19:07.47nihillike I need another one of those
19:07.57*** part/#openmoko mrmoku (n=mrmoku@ppp-93-104-41-5.dynamic.mnet-online.de)
19:08.00roolyafk
19:08.00Chocksthere's a monster in my pants, and it does a funny dance.
19:08.25Chocksplus a battery that was that size would double the FR weight
19:08.26Davebbq
19:08.35nihilcant wait for his FR to show up
19:08.41*** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@81.184.58.169.dyn.user.ono.com)
19:08.55nihilgot pissed off with p2k/moto last night and finally hit "proceed to checkout"
19:09.00Chocks:p
19:09.31nihileven worse, CDMA/VZW p2k
19:10.05nihilit dawned on me that I'd much rather be playing with a different device
19:10.49*** join/#openmoko dougt_ (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
19:11.17roolylaughs
19:13.20nihilso I've seen the openmoko wiki, but not too many "user" pages about things that are being done with the FR
19:13.49nihilis it a stale area? or is nobody sticking their crap on das interweb
19:14.19ChocksI know
19:14.23ChocksIt's bad.
19:14.34ChocksIt took me some days to go through it and catch up with everything.
19:14.37Chocksand it's still confusing.
19:14.39SpeedEvilA) Everybody wrote wiki pages
19:14.46SpeedEvilB) Nobody wrote apps to go with them
19:14.48Chocksbut I think I can answer 90% of your questions
19:15.41nihilnot sure what questions I have just yet
19:15.58nihiljust trying to get a feel of what the community is doing with the devices
19:16.11Chockseverything and nothing.  Nothing is really complete yet.
19:16.14mmontournihil: mostly cursing at it, trying to get it to work at all
19:16.22SpeedEvilHaving them sit on the shelf and being looked at I suspect for >90% of them
19:16.31nihilwinces
19:16.55Chocksmine did until I got an 8GB sd.  which I'm not even using presently :p
19:17.04Chocksand recovered the battery
19:17.09roolysee, its like this: a great many of the people who bought them did so under the false pretense that this was a finished system that worked well
19:17.15SpeedEvilI suspect many people expected them to be a sort-of-functional 'main' phone much,much sooner than this.
19:17.23nihilI've got a 2G tf/msd laying around, that should be plenty for embedded
19:17.36ChocksI knew it was going to be a hard slog, I'm just disappointed at so much splintering
19:17.40roolyenjoys fighting with his computers. it lets him know they are actually doing something
19:17.44mmontourOn the other hand, real progress is being made and important bugs are being fixed. There is still (some) hope for the project
19:17.48Chocksnihil: the plan was to put movies and music on it.
19:17.55Chocksmmontour: yessir.
19:18.02roolywill buy the gta03
19:18.08nihilwell, I do eventually want to replace my phones (currently a BB8800 and moto w755) with it, but I have no delusions about it being a finished product
19:18.17roolysince it will have superior hardware, then i'll hack around on the gta02
19:18.22*** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
19:18.32SpeedEvilGTA03 may not have superior hardware in all areas
19:18.36roolyHAS replaced it as his every day-use phone
19:18.41SpeedEvilsome features get dropped as I understand it.
19:18.49roolywhich?
19:18.53roolygps i can live without
19:19.07Chocksfinally replaced his *PINK* razr with FR.
19:19.11roolythat can be done using triangulation, phone side
19:19.15SpeedEvilrooly: yes - but is it a phone that's suitable to hand to your average 'tech' person, and they can use it without much hastle as a basic phone, or ...
19:19.39roolySpeedEvil: no, the FR and the neo1973 are both hacker phones
19:19.44roolypeople who like breaking stuff
19:19.58roolysimply to see how it works, then to fix it, possibly making it better
19:20.06roolyits not a nerd toy or a techie phone
19:20.07roolyafk
19:20.11*** part/#openmoko rooly (n=CAC@adsl-227-0-198.jan.bellsouth.net)
19:20.42SpeedEvilIMO, they are not hacker phones - with _minor_ hardware mods, both could be end-user suitable.
19:20.45SpeedEvilIt's a hacker OS.
19:20.55nihilideally I want a small device that will replace all my phones, GPS nav, and laptop (for minor excursions)
19:21.30nihilive got an adapter that will turn a small computer into a CD changer for VAG vehicles
19:21.40nihilwould like to plug that in when in the car as well
19:22.32*** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@95.89.148.250)
19:22.45CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * ra8e7bfd7d95c 10/ (8 files in 5 dirs):
19:22.45CIA-54freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: [FREESCALE NEPTUNE] fix call handling to report outgoing calls properly
19:22.45CIA-54freesmartphone.org: misc other fixes
19:26.29*** part/#openmoko dougt_ (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
19:27.02*** join/#openmoko rooly (n=CAC@adsl-227-0-198.jan.bellsouth.net)
19:27.05roolyback
19:28.40nihilI'd really like to see a device with an iphone/video ipod compatible port. saw some video glasses that looked good
19:28.49nihilan open device that is
19:29.05*** join/#openmoko LoRez (i=lorez@freenode/staff/lorez)
19:29.20Chocks:o
19:29.29roolyi'd like to see an apple device with a compatible port to other things for once
19:29.50nihilhah, good luck with that
19:29.50ChocksI'd like a moonannastick
19:30.04*** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g229214188.adsl.alicedsl.de)
19:30.28nihileven the hotel I was in last week had an ipod dock in the alarm clock
19:30.33Chocksheh
19:30.53roolysighs
19:30.58Chocksnever mind the bible in the drawer
19:31.11roolylol
19:31.13nihilhavent seen a bible in a drawer in a few years
19:31.32Chockspretty much every hotel room has them.
19:31.33nihilwoot!
19:31.38nihilScheduled Delivery: 27-March-2009
19:31.46nihiljust got shipping notification
19:31.51Chockscue xkcd cartoon.
19:32.03*** join/#openmoko LoRez (i=lorez@freenode/staff/lorez)
19:32.13nihilchocks: I haven't seen a bible in a hotel in a while
19:32.17Davehmm
19:32.34*** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@91-114-181-73.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
19:32.44Chockssuggests you haven't (a) looked, or (b) been in a hotel in a while
19:32.51nihilhotel in SF last week didnt have one, the one in chicago two months ago didnt have one, NY 4 months ago didnt have one
19:32.57Chocksheh
19:33.02nihiland yes, I look, and have been in them very recently
19:33.03Chocksthose cities are too liberal.
19:33.07nihiljust got back home monday
19:33.12nihilfrom SF
19:33.18Chockshotel I stayed at by Disneyland had one.
19:33.29*** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@94.36.110.25)
19:33.42roolydisneyland of all places
19:33.43Chocksor the Gideons got bored.
19:34.00nihildisney affiliated hotels I would totally expect to find them
19:34.00Chocksit was a Marriot, IIRC
19:34.08*** join/#openmoko LoRez_ (i=lorez@freenode/staff/lorez)
19:34.11Chocksbut yes, some disney theming in it.
19:34.39*** join/#openmoko DeVol_ (i=DeVol@dD576BB91.access.telenet.be)
19:35.05Chocksanyway
19:35.10Chocksshould be a FR in each drawer.  or something.
19:35.16Chocks_really_ piss people off.
19:35.35nihilif I can get a few company specific apps done for the FR, I think I can convince the suits to pick up a 10 pack
19:35.41roolylol
19:35.56nihil*hearts* job security
19:36.06rooly3 grand for a half-complete phone!?
19:36.16nihilnonono, for TEN half complete phones :)
19:36.18*** join/#openmoko peelooo (n=peeloo@AToulouse-151-1-16-236.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr)
19:36.38roolyof course, the gps combined with scriptable sms and phone and gprs...
19:36.45Chocksvs 2 grand or so over 2 years for one iphone :p
19:36.45Dave3 grand?
19:36.49Davehahahaha
19:37.01Daveten halfs doesn't even equal one hre
19:37.03Davehere
19:37.03Chocks4 grand even, including tax and delivery.
19:37.10nihilwe've spent far more on blackberry
19:37.10DaveOPENMOKO DEFIES MATH
19:37.12*** join/#openmoko DorX (n=freak@p5B3B309C.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:37.17roolylol
19:37.24roolygoes to the store
19:37.26roolybbiab
19:37.28Chocksnihil: I'm sure you have.
19:37.56*** join/#openmoko slaxxin (n=brian@ip72-204-125-6.fv.ks.cox.net)
19:38.03nihilBB is ok for what it is, but it lacks apps specific to my needs
19:38.13nihileven simple things, like an ssh client that doesnt suck balls
19:38.23Chocksbut it has a keyboard :p
19:38.57Chocksport SHR to G1 - opinions?
19:38.58nihiltrue, but I've been eyeballing these:
19:39.02*** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@BAA1bdc.baa.pppool.de)
19:39.05nihilhttp://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/8193/
19:39.32nihilwould rock to see that built into a phone
19:39.43Chockshm, yes
19:40.00slaxxinahh
19:40.16slaxxin<PROTECTED>
19:40.17Chocksbit tricky to see in brightly lit places, or use on a train without a flat surface
19:40.28*** join/#openmoko zelegolas (n=zelegola@ip216-239-67-175.vif.net)
19:40.29Chocksor a lot.
19:40.47nihilall sacrafices one can easily make for the sake of "damn that's cool"
19:40.50nihil;)
19:41.02Chocksblames Apple
19:41.10slaxxinpower intensive?
19:41.22nihildunno, haven't seen one in person yet
19:41.52nihilif worse comes to worse, I've got one of those rubbery roll-up waterproof keyboards
19:42.11slaxxinthat is cool
19:42.28nihilgot it to keep in the car for the planned carpc
19:42.38slaxxinic another shr unstable is arrived
19:43.01slaxxini was rather hoping for a milestone
19:43.30Chocksjust did a "ps ax" and misread "wakerd" as something else.
19:43.39slaxxinsince kustomizer worked out so well
19:44.44Chockspulls latest SHR comedy
19:46.12Chocksdammit.  why doesn't SHR keep the config files that you don't want to look at right now, like apt?
19:46.19Chockss/SHR/opkg/
19:47.22*** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@g226144090.adsl.alicedsl.de)
19:47.50*** join/#openmoko poco (n=neil@vau06-1-89-85-32-52.dsl.club-internet.fr)
19:48.04nihils/wtf/autoresponse?/g
19:48.09nihilnope
19:48.40Chocksnice try.
19:48.52Chocksmoo
19:48.55Chockss/moo/woof!/
19:49.25Chocksmooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
19:49.31Chockss/o/oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo/g
19:49.37Chockshm.
19:53.37nihilheh, needs a match in previous statement eh?
19:53.58nihils/statement/ass/ig
19:54.01nihils/statement/ass/
19:54.07nihilhah
19:54.25nihilit doesn't understand the trailing conditions
19:54.25Chockss/ass/donkey/
19:54.34Chocksit's IRC :p
19:55.01nihileh, a '.*' at the end of that string compare would fix that
19:55.32Chocksgeek.
19:55.39nihilheheh
19:59.21*** join/#openmoko esther13 (n=vincent@91.179.54.108)
20:02.43*** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@e183148103.adsl.alicedsl.de)
20:03.30*** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.93.137)
20:04.20*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@89.142.99.170)
20:11.18*** join/#openmoko freerunnerlive (n=ernst@p57B5C5F2.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:19.14roolyback
20:19.20Chockssid
20:19.22Chocks+e
20:19.30roolywho's +e
20:19.34roolywhat does +e even represent
20:19.37Chocksfriend of sid.
20:19.42roolyi know that +v is voice and +b is ban...
20:21.30*** join/#openmoko booxter_ (n=booxter@80.249.92.139)
20:22.03*** part/#openmoko kore_ (n=kore@busimess.org)
20:23.42DocScrutinizerwtf!%#%*@@*# apt spoiling my ignore filters
20:23.54Chocksaww.
20:23.59Chockslaffs.
20:24.17Chockslaffs at Doc's foolishness
20:24.21Chockss/laffs/laughs/
20:24.49Chockspokes apt
20:26.45*** join/#openmoko emacsian1 (n=ram@122.167.109.26)
20:27.15Chocksapt: wake up
20:27.16aptACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on up and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!"
20:27.51Chocksapt: annoy DocScrutinizer
20:27.52aptACTION dances around DocScrutinizer, poking whenever possible, tickling or doing whatever necessary to annoy DocScrutinizer to the maximum amount
20:28.56DocScrutinizerhenk: please!
20:29.53roolysnickers
20:29.57roolyi'm apt-proof
20:31.04Chocksapt: beer rooly
20:31.05aptACTION pours a pint of Guinness for rooly
20:31.08roolydodges like neo
20:31.19roolydon't like beer
20:31.31Chocksapt: unbeer rooly; coffee rooly
20:36.44*** join/#openmoko emacsian1 (n=ram@122.167.109.26)
20:48.36*** join/#openmoko khorben (n=dont@port-83-236-217-161.static.qsc.de)
20:51.56*** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro)
20:52.23*** join/#openmoko knguyen (n=knguyen@ip72-200-109-252.tc.ph.cox.net)
20:55.56*** join/#openmoko HellDragon (i=jd@modemcable022.187-203-24.mc.videotron.ca)
20:58.05*** join/#openmoko HellDragon (i=jd@modemcable022.187-203-24.mc.videotron.ca)
21:13.36*** join/#openmoko Zorkman (n=zork@78-22-123-127.access.telenet.be)
21:15.01Zorkmananyone running android from SD card with u-boot?
21:15.40*** join/#openmoko mwester-laptop (n=mwester@nslu2-linux/mwester)
21:15.54*** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@2001:7c0:1900:11:0:5efe:8d45:3da9)
21:18.01*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@89.142.99.170)
21:22.29*** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@12.186.229.30)
21:22.37*** join/#openmoko dns53 (n=dns@203.171.199.19)
21:23.40*** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net)
21:24.05*** join/#openmoko kirun (n=kirun@78-86-154-194.zone2.bethere.co.uk)
21:24.48*** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@adsl-84-226-65-244.adslplus.ch)
21:29.04ChocksZorkman: you? ;-)
21:29.35ChocksI think the wiki instructions might be a bit old, especially for cupcake
21:32.31ZorkmanChocks: it boots fine (only one message about not being able to acces tty device), but then it seems that there is no ts-capabilities, and the phone service crashed after a minute
21:32.43Chockshm, which version?
21:33.13Chocksyou almost certainly want to use Michael's cupcake, until Koolu finish with the released of merged stuff
21:33.33Chocksyou might have a kernel mismatch or something.
21:33.40ZorkmanuImage-v15-ex1.bin and freerunner-v14.6.jffs2.1
21:33.51Zorkmanthat could indicate kernel mismatch :p
21:33.56Chockscould.
21:34.07ChocksI think when I tried it, there was no ex1
21:34.14Chocksbut try cupcake
21:34.23Zorkmanwhere is it located?
21:34.40Chocksthere's a link from the wiki page to Michael's stuff
21:34.47*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@BSN-142-99-170.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
21:34.52Zorkmanbtw: you used qi? (if that is the case, i think it might just be the time to start using it also, i'll ahve to switch one day)
21:35.08ChocksI have, but too confusing right now.
21:35.12Chocksnot quite the control I wanted.
21:35.23Chockswill revist in a few weeks
21:35.47Zorkmanhttp://panicking.kicks-ass.org/download/uImage-v16.bin  and http://panicking.kicks-ass.org/download/freerunner-v14.6-cupcake.jffs2 ?
21:35.54Chocksaye
21:36.29Zorkmanalso: the wiki is quite confusing, i know that android normally need a media and a data partition, with the media partition bein FAT,
21:36.44Chocksyes, not well described, like much of the wiki :p
21:36.50Zorkman:)
21:36.55Zorkmanbut with u-boot the first one has to contain the kernel and the second the filesystem
21:37.03Zorkmanshould i make a third partition for it?
21:37.16Zorkmanor does that init.rc script handles it all well that is provided in the wiki
21:37.32Chocksyou can try; but you might run into problems.  there's some assumptions being made which the wiki doesn't describe well
21:38.14Chocksanyway, bbiab. good luck.
21:38.34Zorkmanthanks :)
21:45.01*** part/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@BSN-142-99-170.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
21:48.21*** join/#openmoko billk (n=billk@124-169-247-8.dyn.iinet.net.au)
21:49.15*** join/#openmoko peelooo (n=peeloo@AToulouse-151-1-16-236.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr)
22:01.05*** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@unaffiliated/jaebird)
22:10.11*** join/#openmoko TimRiker (i=timr@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker)
22:11.14Chocksmoo
22:15.27*** join/#openmoko peelooo_ (n=peeloo@AToulouse-151-1-16-236.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr)
22:19.53mmontour~lart OE and its unbuildable perl-native package
22:19.53aptsend killer squirrels to attack OE and its unbuildable perl-native package
22:23.19*** join/#openmoko Piet (i=pietor@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xC5C71DCE)
22:24.36pjzZorkman: if you figure out what works, update the wiki with it
22:24.47pjzthe wiki is not read-only, you know. that's the point of the wiki
22:27.57Chocks:o
22:28.18Chocksthe problem is, parts of the wiki are not easily readable ;-)
22:31.08*** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host169-162-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
22:31.37*** join/#openmoko rooly (n=CAC@12.151.197.98)
22:32.37*** join/#openmoko peelooo (n=peeloo@AToulouse-151-1-16-236.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr)
22:34.52*** join/#openmoko peelooo (n=peeloo@AToulouse-151-1-16-236.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr)
22:36.01*** join/#openmoko rooly1 (n=rooly@12.151.197.98)
22:36.20rooly1back
22:36.21Chocksr1
22:36.22Chocksside
22:36.38rooly1gonna go kill off the other laptop's stuff
22:36.40rooly1brb
22:36.43pjzChocks: so fix 'em
22:36.52ChocksI have been doing :p
22:37.08rooly1done
22:37.43Chocksyou may note that the present USB networking page is substantially my work.  Or was - it's probably morphed a bit since June
22:38.45ChocksMany of the pages could do with a huge clean out, but it takes a lot of time, even for one page.
22:39.18Chocksother stuff is just formatted really badly, and that can often be fixed in a few seconds.  That's a lot of what I've been doing recently.
22:40.21Chockswiki syntax is not always obvious to new contributors, and sometimes people put a lot of random stuff in that looks really funky :-|
22:40.28*** join/#openmoko Digital_Pioneer (n=digitalp@h17.200.255.206.cable.srcy.cablelynx.com)
22:41.14*** join/#openmoko d-b (n=alias@unaffiliated/d-b)
22:41.44*** join/#openmoko OpenRaigedas (n=OpenSour@hst-254-124.splius.lt)
22:41.47*** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby)
22:41.51*** join/#openmoko ^wd^ (n=wd@82.119.147.190)
22:45.26*** join/#openmoko SomeT (n=somet@cpc1-leic13-0-0-cust815.leic.cable.ntl.com)
22:45.34Chockscheese boy.
22:45.35SomeThello
22:45.53SomeTcould someone advise me how you get the battery cover off without long finger nails?
22:45.54SomeThaha
22:45.59Chocksguitar pick.
22:46.19SomeTdont have one
22:46.20Chocksplastic knife
22:46.25SomeTdont have one
22:46.31Chockscheese wrapper
22:46.35SomeT?
22:47.13SomeTdo u really have to pull down on it?
22:47.22SomeTi can get my fingernail in just barely though
22:50.37mmontourSomeT: easy to show visually, harder to describe in text. Basically you put the palm of your hand against the back of the FR, curl your fingers over the top, and pull back on the top of the case
22:51.49Chocksdoesn't work with sweaty palms
22:52.02SomeTso annoying, lol
22:52.05SomeTcant get it open
22:52.08SomeTstill
22:52.16Sharwin_Fwith a tooth?
22:52.18Sharwin_F:O
22:52.22Chocksyou are laughing at something annoying?
22:53.15ChocksI'm dead. lol
22:54.41*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.152.69.54)
22:55.23rasterSomeT: wait 1 week.. and you will have long enough nails :)
22:56.26Chocksoriginal neo was shipped with a guitar pick.  I guess they decided it wasn't needed for FR.
22:58.15mmontourThe pick was for taking off the front of the case (to attach a debug board)
23:01.10SomeTstill cant this open, haha
23:01.13SomeTso frustrating
23:01.24rasterSomeT:  at one end there is a little indent
23:01.38rasterlike a gap
23:01.41raster(the top end)
23:01.49CIA-54freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r0b8312af7c25 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): library: start with better thread class
23:02.26SomeTi know
23:02.30SomeTbut nothing works
23:02.36SomeTno matter how much i pry it open
23:03.21rastersimply take your fingernail - even if its short, and pry away from the case
23:03.24rasterit pops off
23:03.26rastereasily
23:03.29SomeTdo i reallu have to force it?
23:03.37rasteryes
23:03.41rasterit takes a little pressure
23:03.50SomeTsorted
23:03.51SomeTcheers mate
23:04.00SomeTsounds a pathetic thing to ask
23:04.09rasterits just a plastic cover
23:04.11SomeTbut i worry about breaking something i just paid £270 for, lol
23:04.19rasternothing sensitive there
23:04.24PaulFertserraster: you're amazing :)
23:04.55SomeThe just said it straight forward
23:04.58raster???
23:05.00SomeTno faffing around, haha
23:05.10SomeTjust force it off
23:05.14SomeTdont know why i didnt think of it
23:05.23SomeTnow to carefully insert my sim car and sd card
23:05.24PaulFertserraster: until you came nobody could explain him what to do. It took a great coder and artist to really help him ;)
23:05.41rastererrr hmm ok.
23:05.46SomeThaha
23:05.54SomeTwell i am a noob
23:06.00SomeTbut not to linux
23:06.09ChocksSomeT: what distro did you decicde on?
23:06.20SomeTdunno yet
23:06.23rasteri have opened gta01/02 cases often enough
23:06.24PaulFertserSomeT: i thought you had almost no nail at all, i tried to open it without using nails and failed too btw.
23:06.24SomeTi really want neopwn
23:06.25rasterboth front and abck
23:06.29SomeTbut its out of reach
23:06.29rasternever needed a tool
23:06.42SomeTi dont
23:06.42roolySomeT: what do you want
23:06.50SomeTneopwn
23:06.51SomeThaha
23:06.52ZorkmanSomeT: don't worry, i also was a noob when i started with the FR, and look at me know
23:06.53ZorkmanI can already boot it :p
23:06.58Zorkman(most of the time ;-))
23:07.06ChocksZorkman: but can you make a call?
23:07.22roolyfor a pure reliable phone that wakes up, lives well on battery, and etc, use some FSO distro
23:07.36Chocksor Qtopia :p
23:07.46SomeTi looked a bit at Qtopia
23:07.50roolyfor a fully featured phone, use qtopia 4.4.1/4.4.3 or 4.3.2
23:08.02Chocksrooly: well, for a "phone" yes.  fully featured, no :p
23:08.04SomeTi was also looking at Android purely because i use google services a lot for work related reasons
23:08.28roolyChocks: yeah, full phone except for wake-up alarms
23:08.46saracen_in shr, whats  the best way to mute the main speakers?
23:08.55Chocksheh.
23:09.07Chocksthey mute after about 3 seconds if you plug in headphones
23:09.13ZorkmanChocks: most of the time :) (although after sending an sms it stops working :))
23:09.52SpeedEvilAll FR problems can be solved with a bigger hammer.
23:10.32roolylol
23:10.50SomeTright
23:10.56SomeTi have got the sim card holder up
23:10.56Zorkmani bet the Fr can even break your hammer
23:11.01SomeTwhat about sd card holder
23:11.06SomeTwhat latches do i have to pull up?
23:11.08Zorkmanonly way to get hammer working again is pulling battery out and reflashing  ;)
23:11.15ChocksSomeT: heh. it's real fiddly first time
23:11.33ZorkmanSomeT: it's tricky, when you have it open, applie the super-cellotape-hax
23:11.47Chocksthe SD clips don't really work properly
23:12.02Chocksmy SD is held down by sim holder
23:12.18ZorkmanSomeT: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/sdcard-handle/ ?
23:12.35rooly's sim holds properly
23:12.39SpeedEvilThe SD clips work fine IME - unless you've bent them.
23:12.46SpeedEvilwhich is way too easy
23:13.06roolyis careful too so...
23:13.27ZorkmanSpeedEvil: i find them not very userfriendly
23:13.27SomeThow do u get the clips/latches open?
23:13.34SomeTi cant even see them?
23:13.35rasterSomeT:  just put fingernail under the end of the microsd metal cover
23:13.42raster(where the gap is)
23:13.44rasterand pull up
23:13.49rasterit needs a bit of pressure
23:13.54*** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.93.137)
23:14.19saracen_i found that a lot harder to do when the cards in
23:14.19rasterdid u get the sim card holder open first?
23:14.29SomeTyes
23:14.49SomeThopefull i aint broke it
23:14.53SomeTi pushed it down first
23:14.57SomeTrather than pulling up, lol
23:15.06SomeTit seems fine anyway its meant to be loose anyway
23:15.15SomeTas the battery holds into place properly right?
23:15.42Chocksthe sim holder holds it down
23:16.00ChocksYou don't want to rely on the battery for that.  my battery springs are loose, for example
23:16.14*** join/#openmoko peelooo (n=peeloo@AToulouse-151-1-16-236.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr)
23:16.28ZorkmanChocks: for android did you use init-sd.rc from the panicking site?
23:17.04raster(slide that up away from its hinge at the edge of the battery compartment, then it will pull up easily - to put it back just do the reverse - flip down and slide back to click into place)
23:18.06DocScrutinizerso printing saying "Lock -->"
23:18.39DocScrutinizerand "<-- Open" even
23:19.10SpeedEvilyou slide before tilting
23:19.10SpeedEvilin both cases
23:19.10SpeedEvilat least on GTA01 - I understnad the clips to be identical
23:19.13SpeedEvilslide, then turn phone upside down, and the SIM/SD socket should flop down
23:19.29SomeTi done it!
23:19.34ChocksZorkman: I may have just tried to hack it.  I tried Android with jffs2.  I then tried my built, but that had unrelated issues I didn't get to the bottom of.
23:19.35*** join/#openmoko tholin_ (n=tholin@113.130.218.103)
23:19.35mmontourThe SD holder is different (worse) on GTA02
23:19.36SomeTwithout bending or ruiing it, lol
23:19.50rasterDocScrutinizer: yeah... those labels :)
23:19.52SomeTi dont know why the sd card slot aint on the outside, lol
23:19.52DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: gta01 is inverse
23:19.53ChocksZorkman: in other words, I don't have a good answer
23:20.05SpeedEvildoc|home: Thanks.
23:20.10SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer
23:20.43*** join/#openmoko drjnut (n=drjnut@caladan.darksnow.org)
23:21.16DocScrutinizerthe SIM holder is worse on 01. much worse
23:21.28*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@89.142.99.170)
23:21.38SpeedEvilPersonally, I find it OK - once you're used to it. Easy to use, ...
23:21.39*** part/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@89.142.99.170)
23:21.53SpeedEvilHowever, that requires passing the half-hour swearing course.
23:21.56eolsonsuccessfully updates moko11 on gta01 with no problems (woo!)
23:22.13saracen_hmm, how can i delete some launcher icons from illume ;x
23:22.25DocScrutinizercooool! :-L
23:22.27Chocksdelete from /usr/share/application
23:22.33SpeedEvileolson: :)
23:22.34DocScrutinizererr :-)
23:22.39Chockssome may also be in .e
23:22.39saracen_ah, ty Chocks
23:23.03saracen_already checked there, thus confused
23:23.05Chocksor opkg remove :p
23:23.19saracen_well, i dont even have the package for a lot of them ;x
23:23.30eolsonyeah, wiki instructions worked great :)
23:28.32*** join/#openmoko Dominus (i=unices@195-241-252-199.ip.telfort.nl)
23:32.48SomeTright
23:34.38SomeTi just powered up my openmoko
23:34.46SomeThow do i get into the settings menu
23:34.53SomeTcan i not do this whilst its charging?
23:35.18Chocksheh, this'll be the default flash distro?
23:35.25ChocksSee the getting started guide on the wiki
23:36.00SomeTok thanks
23:36.15SomeTim starting with the default
23:36.20SomeTso i can get used to it
23:36.23ChocksYou'll end up with more questions than answers, but it's a start
23:36.29SomeTi always do that with every linux device i buy
23:36.49ChocksProblem is, the default is very dated
23:36.49SomeTi did it with my asus eeepc i started using xandros which was terrible
23:36.53SomeTthen ubuntu
23:36.57SomeTnow backtrack, haha
23:37.23ChocksWell, the default on my Linux machine was XP :p
23:37.53*** join/#openmoko khorben (n=dont@port-83-236-217-161.static.qsc.de)
23:38.29*** join/#openmoko Openfree (n=dennis@222.65.175.96)
23:38.39SomeTxp is alright
23:38.49ChocksNot for running Linux
23:40.53SomeTdefinitly
23:41.39SomeTon google android
23:41.48SomeTis it still possible to get debian running with in it?
23:41.53SpeedEvildeeply objects to having to buy windows with some hardware.
23:41.54SomeTand basic linux apps?
23:42.19ChocksWEll, I suppose.  You'd have to make a chroot.  But android doesn't use a real X server
23:42.53SomeTah ok
23:43.09ChocksSimilar issues with Qtopia
23:43.23SomeTwhats the best one then?
23:43.29Chocksheh.
23:43.34Chocksdepends what you want to do.
23:43.36SomeTif i wanna run basic linux apps along with decent usability
23:43.51ChocksSHR.  Or if you want full Debian, hackable:1
23:44.13Chocksor Qtopia, if you want a working phone (mostly)
23:44.42roolyif you want a barebones phone, fso-illume with zhone, or fso-paroli
23:44.57Chocksno shortage of choice.
23:45.32ChocksBut if you want Debian, you'll want to get another SD card.
23:45.51roolycontacts, sms, dialer, and recent calls
23:45.58Chocksunless someone wants to roll an emdebian for it
23:46.43SomeTwhat i want to do at the min
23:46.49SomeTis make it go on silent
23:47.01SomeThow can i do in the terminal
23:47.09SomeTi cant figure out from the commans i already know
23:47.27ChocksDon't tortore yourself with the default distro.
23:47.30Chockstorture
23:47.58SomeThaha
23:48.06SomeTis it eaasy to change the distro
23:48.14Chocksto the wikimobile!
23:48.21Chocksall there :p
23:48.30SomeTcan i use a live cd do you reckon?
23:48.38SomeTi am kidding btw, lol
23:48.41Chocksspanks
23:48.43saracen_SomeT: It is. Ive done it 4 times since I got my moko...
23:48.47Chockssure, just pop it in the CD drive
23:48.49saracen_that was on monday
23:49.08saracen_wiki gets you up to speed pretty quickly, and the guys in here :)
23:49.33mmontourModerately easy. Flash a new kernel + rootfs (or reformat SD card and un-tar an image there) then tweak your bootloader for whatever quirks your new distro requires.
23:49.39SomeThow do i tell when its finished charging?
23:49.54*** join/#openmoko peelooo (n=peeloo@AToulouse-151-1-16-236.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr)
23:50.04Chockshope your current distro tells you
23:50.21Zorkmanshr/fso distro's inform you with a blue led light on the powerbutton
23:50.30Zorkmanyou can also type in "apm" in the terminal
23:50.40saracen_oh, thats what that led is for
23:50.49*** join/#openmoko BillK (n=Bill@124-169-247-8.dyn.iinet.net.au)
23:50.56Zorkmanorange is charging, blue is fully charged...
23:51.01SomeTit just as a lighting symbol in the batter thing
23:51.15Zorkmanwould like it better if they used the red aux led for that, that is the powerdraining monster on the GTA055's
23:51.27SomeTi cant see no light?
23:51.40Zorkman2008.12 probably doesn't use it
23:51.52mmontourThe LEDs are controlled by software
23:51.52SomeTum
23:51.54ZorkmanSomeT: try to type "apm" in your terminal
23:51.57SomeTi just did
23:52.05SomeTit says online, battery charging
23:52.11SomeTi like this phone already, lol
23:52.31SomeTits not simple just how i like it
23:52.47mmontourThe true charging info lives in some /sys nodes - there's one for the PMU, one that gives you the voltage and current measured by the battery
23:53.18SomeTif i leave it on now
23:53.20SomeTwhen i go to bed
23:53.31SomeTwill the screen power down automatically?
23:53.37roolydepends on your distro
23:54.00Zorkmanand your settings...
23:54.20SomeTthats the main thing i neeed to do
23:54.25SomeTso i can leave it charging
23:54.36Zorkmanalways keep in mind: it's a freerunner, better to check twenty times, and then you might count on it to be reliable (for some perdiod :))
23:54.53roolyunless you run FSO
23:54.57Zorkmanif you keep it charging on the wallcharger it will (normally) never give you any problems
23:55.00rasterSomeT: have u reflashed an updated image?
23:55.01SomeTapm will also tell me when the battery is full right?
23:55.06SomeTnah not uet
23:55.13SomeTi only just powered the thing up, haha
23:55.17raster(eg latest 2008.x etc.) or this is "as is out of the box"
23:55.30rasterapm should - yes
23:55.34SomeTcool
23:55.39rasteryou willw ant to get a newer image onto it
23:55.43SomeTi dont know which distro version it is
23:57.18rasteru will want something newer
23:58.11*** join/#openmoko MrTuttle (n=hklein@66.187.227.198)
23:58.28ZorkmanSomeT: I recommond you try a few distro right away :)
23:58.42SomeTi dont have time
23:58.44SomeTnearly bed time
23:59.04ZorkmanI mean try them before you start using what you have now as a real/daily phone
23:59.36SomeTah ok cool
23:59.37SomeTwill do
23:59.39Zorkmanyou probably have a 2008.x version on it now, try the most recent one when you have time, also try SHR, qtopia...

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.