| 00:03.28 | *** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@ip72-219-131-110.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 00:03.56 | *** join/#openmoko chomchom (n=chomchom@78.32.95.81) |
| 00:04.18 | DocScrutinizer | vininim: `at` is the word |
| 00:04.47 | *** join/#openmoko BillK (n=Bill@124-169-171-201.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:08.18 | chomchom | Hello, I am looking to obtain access to general 'open source' project figures. I'm trying to find correlation between the no. of projects started in a particular year and the hot topics in IT. Has anyone any helpful suggestions they could recommend? |
| 00:09.33 | fredrin | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:10.35 | chomchom | Google trends is a bit thin on the ground sadly |
| 00:10.47 | chomchom | it provides ratios instead of hard numbers |
| 00:10.56 | chomchom | and only has aggregate info from 2004 |
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| 00:14.34 | vininim | DocScrutinizer: it seems at is a one time only thing |
| 00:16.39 | DocScrutinizer | vininim: oh, wasn't that what you needed? so for repeated "things" cron surely is more appropriate |
| 00:18.50 | DocScrutinizer | crontab -e to be precise ;) |
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| 00:25.02 | DocScrutinizer | hates crontab btw, as it needs a stupid `touch /etc/cron.deny` and invocation without option is the most dangerous variant |
| 00:25.33 | Dave | CVirus! |
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| 02:04.48 | SeligArkin | Hmm... |
| 02:05.00 | rooly1 | yup |
| 02:05.05 | rooly1 | you sure are right on that one SeligArkin |
| 02:05.19 | SeligArkin | rooly1: guess what I broke |
| 02:05.28 | rooly1 | okay, lets see |
| 02:05.34 | rooly1 | i have to ask first which distro |
| 02:06.00 | rooly1 | because each one breaks differently |
| 02:06.04 | Chocky | ;-) |
| 02:06.05 | DocScrutinizer | SeligArkin: hey :) |
| 02:06.12 | Chocky | each with their own comedy. |
| 02:06.17 | rooly1 | lol, yeah |
| 02:06.19 | SeligArkin | ahhha |
| 02:06.29 | rooly1 | and if qtopia, which version |
| 02:06.35 | rooly1 | because they all break differently too |
| 02:06.41 | SeligArkin | well I found a problem with the phonegui_*_show() functions |
| 02:06.44 | Chocky | and if X, then which version Y, and which kernel Z |
| 02:06.51 | SeligArkin | they can't handle not havin DISPLAY set |
| 02:06.58 | SeligArkin | but no, I broke openmoko-messages |
| 02:07.01 | *** join/#openmoko Defiant- (i=erik@c142225.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 02:07.01 | SeligArkin | in SHR |
| 02:07.07 | rooly1 | man |
| 02:07.08 | rooly1 | no fair |
| 02:07.09 | SeligArkin | it didn't l ike me getting a MMS it seems |
| 02:07.11 | rooly1 | i wanted to guess so bad |
| 02:08.03 | Dave | Rooly! |
| 02:08.10 | rooly1 | yo dawg |
| 02:08.10 | DocScrutinizer | SeligArkin: after all MMS isn't supported. but sure it shouldn't break |
| 02:08.23 | rooly1 | is writing an event receiver for his favorite 3d engine |
| 02:08.25 | SeligArkin | ** (process:2083): DEBUG: ogsmd_sim_retrieve_messagebook_callback() |
| 02:08.25 | SeligArkin | Failed to handle dbus error: Resource Device is not enabled, current status is 'disabled', 71 (dbus-glib-error-quark), code 32 |
| 02:09.03 | SeligArkin | now that I see the actual error, I am going to guess it was a coincidence |
| 02:09.21 | rooly1 | haha |
| 02:09.32 | rooly1 | yeah...unless the mms came from one of your contacts |
| 02:09.33 | *** part/#openmoko bar_code (n=ollo@222.128.24.75) |
| 02:09.42 | SeligArkin | no contacts setupp uet |
| 02:10.19 | SeligArkin | I am not happy about it just being name-number to be honest |
| 02:10.36 | DocScrutinizer | how could it tell whether it's been from a contact? ;-) |
| 02:10.44 | rooly1 | btw, DocScrutinizer, i was thinking, the gprs functions in frameworkd seem rather limited, don't you think |
| 02:10.47 | Dave | hmm |
| 02:10.56 | Dave | rooly, how's your distro coming along bro? |
| 02:11.00 | rooly1 | lol |
| 02:11.23 | rooly1 | i work 10 hours a day and sleep another 8... |
| 02:11.38 | rooly1 | so writing a distro is mostly a pipe dream |
| 02:11.41 | Dave | shit |
| 02:11.47 | Dave | should hire some mexicans, methinks |
| 02:11.50 | rooly1 | lol |
| 02:11.51 | SeligArkin | ... |
| 02:11.56 | rooly1 | ...i do work with some of those |
| 02:12.00 | DocScrutinizer | rooly1: no idea about that. what's it you are missing? |
| 02:12.01 | SeligArkin | I have no clue how I broke it |
| 02:12.13 | Chocky | Or at least, someone who doesn't say "lol" every second sentence :-( |
| 02:12.33 | rooly1 | well doc, dial number for one thing |
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| 02:13.09 | rooly1 | Chocky: i aint sayin that every second one. its every 3rd |
| 02:13.14 | SeligArkin | lol |
| 02:13.21 | rooly1 | heehee |
| 02:13.32 | SeligArkin | see what I did there? |
| 02:13.49 | Chocky | bitchx ... | grep -v lol |
| 02:13.52 | DocScrutinizer | rooly1: dial number for gprs? don't get it, sorry |
| 02:14.13 | rooly1 | different carriers have a different AT dial number for gprs connectivity |
| 02:14.26 | rooly1 | for instance, AT&T is something like ***99* |
| 02:14.46 | rooly1 | whereas the mostly standard one is something like *99 |
| 02:14.55 | DocScrutinizer | ah you're talking about that "*99#" |
| 02:15.00 | rooly1 | yeah, that |
| 02:15.35 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, this for sure should be a config option |
| 02:15.59 | Chocky | I'm not aware that *99* does anything different with AT&T. An I wrote the software for my company's product that dials for many different GSM modems |
| 02:16.05 | Dave | cHOX |
| 02:16.11 | Chocky | DaveBitch |
| 02:16.13 | DocScrutinizer | but as I said, I have no idea about details of FSO implementation |
| 02:16.45 | rooly1 | then maybe i'm misinformed |
| 02:16.53 | rooly1 | wouldn't be the first time |
| 02:17.11 | Chocky | IME, both numbers work fine. But of course, I wouldn't put anything past AT&T |
| 02:17.13 | DocScrutinizer | rooly: hm, missinformed? |
| 02:17.26 | SeligArkin | Rooly!? Misinformed!? NO WAI! |
| 02:17.31 | Chocky | so there could well be some ill-documented difference |
| 02:17.42 | Dave | Selig - chill |
| 02:17.50 | SeligArkin | :P |
| 02:19.41 | rooly1 | why oh why does windows always run my harddrive so much |
| 02:19.53 | DocScrutinizer | rooly1: I never was in charge of FSO |
| 02:20.00 | rooly1 | oh i know |
| 02:20.08 | rooly1 | i just thought you might know about it some |
| 02:20.26 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, who told you? |
| 02:20.29 | raster | DocScrutinizer: you are now! |
| 02:20.37 | rooly1 | nobody did |
| 02:20.44 | rooly1 | i'm a good guesser |
| 02:21.06 | raster | DocScrutinizer: you work at openmoko.. as do the fso team... thus as u both work there on the same procuct.. u'd probably know |
| 02:21.09 | DocScrutinizer | guess != information |
| 02:21.11 | SeligArkin | rooly1: guess what I'm going to do now that I broke SHR |
| 02:21.17 | raster | nudges DocScrutinizer |
| 02:21.19 | rooly1 | reflash? |
| 02:21.37 | SeligArkin | I'll get bacvk to you |
| 02:21.42 | SeligArkin | because I don't know yet |
| 02:21.56 | rooly1 | avoids lol, "haha, good to know" |
| 02:22.02 | DocScrutinizer | raster: you very well know I'm *not* working for om anymore ;) |
| 02:22.04 | Chocky | :o |
| 02:22.15 | raster | points to the nudge |
| 02:22.22 | raster | :) |
| 02:22.49 | SeligArkin | oh! |
| 02:22.52 | SeligArkin | I un-broke it! |
| 02:22.59 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 02:23.11 | SeligArkin | heh |
| 02:23.15 | SeligArkin | "This is a binary message" |
| 02:23.20 | DocScrutinizer | (borrowed from rooly ) |
| 02:24.15 | Chocky | frowns at vagalume |
| 02:24.16 | SeligArkin | I love my notify script |
| 02:24.29 | SeligArkin | Notify -sms "Something that took all night is done!" |
| 02:24.35 | SeligArkin | and it will text me |
| 02:24.47 | DocScrutinizer | sounds great |
| 02:25.17 | SeligArkin | it secretly uses the AT&T email -> txt interface |
| 02:25.47 | SeligArkin | though I guess its not much of a secret now... |
| 02:25.48 | Chocky | frowns even more at Mofi |
| 02:25.51 | Chocky | does nothing! |
| 02:27.19 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.206.102) |
| 02:27.40 | Chocky | how can I easily change orientation from within SHR? |
| 02:27.41 | *** join/#openmoko raspoutine (n=neil@vau06-1-89-85-32-52.dsl.club-internet.fr) |
| 02:27.45 | Chocky | without using command line :p |
| 02:29.35 | SeligArkin | Chocky: make a desktop icon to rotate |
| 02:29.45 | raster | e has a config dialog for that |
| 02:29.48 | mwester | remove the lcd, rotate, and reattach. |
| 02:29.50 | raster | but it doesnt quite fit on screen |
| 02:29.51 | raster | :) |
| 02:30.28 | SeligArkin | mwester wins. |
| 02:31.39 | Dave | :D |
| 02:32.03 | Dave | Chocky, better not, your face will stay that way :p |
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| 02:37.50 | Zorkman | Chocky: there is also omnewrotate, which uses accelerometers to rotate screen (if that is what you want..) |
| 02:38.01 | Dave | kinky |
| 02:40.45 | SeligArkin | bow chicka wow wow |
| 02:40.56 | Dave | pfft, you wish :p |
| 02:43.09 | SeligArkin | :P |
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| 03:15.03 | Chocky | brownchickenbrowncow |
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| 03:21.33 | Chocky | well, that seems to work |
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| 03:27.57 | Chocky | phil! |
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| 03:44.14 | Chocky | two more freakin' plane crashes |
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| 03:53.44 | penguinator | is it a common problem for the screen to be black and white after resuming when using the qi bootloader? |
| 03:57.47 | Zorkman | penguinator: search the mailinglist, there have been reports about it, but i certainly don't think it's very common (could be wrong, i'm not yet a qi user) |
| 03:58.41 | Chocky | hm, not much luck with GPS in SHR testing |
| 03:58.46 | Chocky | followed the hints on trac |
| 04:02.19 | penguinator | Zorkman: any clues for terms in the search? i tried google and nothing good came up |
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| 04:07.01 | Chocky | stupid glamo |
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| 04:57.29 | raster | Chocky: but glamo is so great! its the best gfx chip ever! |
| 05:01.50 | Dave | ahahahaha |
| 05:01.53 | Dave | Is it april already!? |
| 05:02.00 | Chocky | :o |
| 05:04.14 | Chocky | which clown put "goto" in one of the wiki templates? |
| 05:05.04 | raster | hahaha |
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| 05:18.49 | Dave | What's up, Doc? |
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| 05:53.10 | slaxxin | shr here yet? |
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| 06:40.29 | PaulFertser | rooly1 left, but i still want to inform users that dial number for GPRS doesn't matter. It works with the hardcoded FSO number as well. |
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| 06:41.42 | PaulFertser | penguinator: known problem, fixed in newer kernel versions. |
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| 07:06.31 | Dave | hhahahaha awesome, something's funky and this media-player alters the flow of time |
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| 07:10.43 | raster | magic mystery player |
| 07:10.52 | raster | thats what mplayer really is |
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| 08:01.43 | PaulFertser | I wonder where all that embedded drug-abusers come from. I read lpc24xx-linux (arm7 nommu) mailing list and see plenty of messages from people that make no sense at all. Like they can't read code or understand basic unix ideas. Now i the same clueless messages at sdhci-devel (hi bd2, you saw the messages i'm talking about ;) ). Where all those strange people come from? |
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| 08:11.44 | mithris | PaulFertser: school? i've been following the lpc2000 yahoo group for some time, and it feels like a majority of the threads are about help with schoolwork. (i hope so, i pray they don't get paid for anything they do) |
| 08:13.26 | PaulFertser | mithris: Oh? Sounds reasonable, i've never thought about that. I thought EA boards are a bit too expensive. |
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| 08:15.45 | PaulFertser | mithris: otoh EA doesn't target real developers as they don't use any modern build system (read buildroot) don't maintain the kernel and their dvd contains some stupid vmware image. |
| 08:17.27 | mithris | PaulFertser: hm, EA boards? |
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| 08:21.17 | PaulFertser | mithris: Embedded Artists development boards. They target uCLinux developers but in a very strange way. |
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| 08:22.08 | PaulFertser | mithris: they implemented most of the u-boot and uCLinux support for lpc2xxx. But in an unmaintainable way. |
| 08:22.33 | mithris | PaulFertser: ah, i got some lpc214x boars from EA.. never been bothered with uclinux tho. |
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| 08:41.41 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:42.16 | KenYoung | Hopscotch, Howdy! |
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| 11:04.51 | tomboy64 | could someone, who is successfully booting their freerunner from sd, give me the output of his "zcat /proc/config.gz | grep -i mmc" please? |
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| 11:14.10 | master_void | hello, i want to install vala-terminal_1.1.1 via opkg, than an error "Error: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for vala-terminal * libvte9(>=0.16.9)" where can i find this lib and how do i install it? |
| 11:15.03 | henk | tomboy64: useless use of cat, but anyway: http://paste.debian.net/31242/ |
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| 11:15.35 | tomboy64 | henk: zgrep would work, too, of course - thanks |
| 11:15.43 | henk | tomboy64: ;) |
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| 12:36.21 | SeligArkin | slaps gcc |
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| 12:46.37 | toggles_w | @sk021 |
| 12:47.07 | GovCon | ? |
| 12:47.45 | toggles_w | b34ns |
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| 13:08.18 | SM2k | on SHR, I used dbus' ousaged interface to attempt to start GPS. after a long time it returned silently, but logread -f is emitting an infinite supply of "Jan 5 19:03:00 om-gta02 user.info fso-gpsd[1443]: WARNING: Timeout: gypsy device not started" and getResourceState returns False |
| 13:08.43 | SM2k | did I miss a step or are things just sucking on their own? |
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| 13:14.50 | PaulFertser | SM2k: probably you need to request the resource and don't exit. Mdbus exits as soon as it calls the method, probably the resource gets released immediately? |
| 13:15.36 | SM2k | PaulFertser: interesting, I used mdbus as a debugging method. I actually used the python dbus interface originally |
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| 13:17.43 | SM2k | after rebooting the moko, I have: a getResourceState of True and a getResourcePolicy of auto |
| 13:17.59 | SM2k | my code actually calls setResourcePolicy GPS enabled |
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| 13:18.09 | PaulFertser | SM2k: that was a wild guess of mine, don't count on it too much. Read the specs and the code instead :) |
| 13:18.11 | SM2k | am I perhaps tripping things up by doing that? |
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| 13:18.49 | SM2k | PaulFertser: your wild guess counts for more than mine :-) |
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| 13:20.32 | PaulFertser | SM2k: actually, i'm not even a python programmer, but FSO code is easy enough. :) |
| 13:20.48 | SM2k | so's python (easy enough to read) |
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| 13:24.52 | PaulFertser | SM2k: btw, ophonekitd has a special script-friendly interface for requesting resources (keeps reference count and releases automatically). |
| 13:24.53 | SM2k | PaulFertser: ah, well when I left it alone and just watched the logs, it wallowed around pissing about gypsy all on it's own. |
| 13:25.03 | SM2k | it seems to suck without my help :-) |
| 13:25.18 | SM2k | ophonekitd? |
| 13:25.29 | PaulFertser | SM2k: yes, afaik. |
| 13:26.30 | PaulFertser | SM2k: btw, sometimes some parts of the frameworkd don't start and that can lead to weird errors in logs. Check frameworkd.log for ogpsd messages. |
| 13:26.31 | SM2k | is appears that that doesn't have a native python interface. I assume it must be called ala cmdline then? |
| 13:26.50 | PaulFertser | SM2k: i guess ophonekitd has a native dbus interface. |
| 13:27.07 | SM2k | http://slexy.org/view/s2dlcYYlki crap like that eh? :-) |
| 13:28.38 | bd2 | PaulFertser, hi. wrt eSDHC.. thanks! ;-) |
| 13:28.57 | SM2k | org.freesmartphone.ophoned that api I assume? |
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| 13:31.29 | PaulFertser | SM2k: no, that's FSO interface |
| 13:31.52 | SM2k | oh hey wait a moment. mdbus -s org.shr.ophonekitd.Usage /org/shr/ophonekitd/Usage there's that |
| 13:32.06 | SM2k | but I've been using org.freesmartphone.ousaged /org/freesmartphone/Usage |
| 13:32.19 | SM2k | .... are those interchangeable? |
| 13:32.34 | SM2k | the api's look suspiciously similar |
| 13:32.48 | PaulFertser | SM2k: yeah shit like that. Gypsy should start clearly, without tracebacks. |
| 13:33.10 | PaulFertser | SM2k: read the full traceback message to understand why it happens. |
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| 13:34.28 | PaulFertser | bd2: btw, do they allow you to work enough on submission upstream or do they prefer fast and dirty results (or even custom work without really releasing it at all)? |
| 13:34.29 | roterguru | hi |
| 13:37.01 | roterguru | finally someone offers repair service for buzz problem in Germany ... here's the post on the mailing list: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-March/043971.html . how can I "mail him privately" ? I can't find his email adress :( |
| 13:38.29 | Zorkman | roterguru: Daniel Willmann daniel at openmoko.org |
| 13:38.43 | Zorkman | it says so ion top of the page |
| 13:38.46 | PaulFertser | roterguru: but he's not doing repair service. He's holding repair party. |
| 13:42.11 | roterguru | hm, ok ... maybe he accepts some freerunners sent by mail ... |
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| 13:44.56 | bd2 | PaulFertser, that depends. usually Freescale give us some time to upstream our work, sometimes results have higher priority though. other times you just cannot include some patch in a product until it's acked by the community. |
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| 13:52.45 | PaulFertser | bd2: nice to hear. I hope you enjoy your job :) |
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| 14:04.06 | master_void | hey, i want to install vala-terminal_1.1.1 via opkg, than an error "Error: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for vala-terminal * libvte9(>=0.16.9)" where can i find this lib and how do i install it? |
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| 14:06.26 | henk | master_void: you should mention the distribution you are talking about... |
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| 14:40.23 | Zorkman | does anyone know which is the latest kernel with squashfs AND wifi (with the kernels from http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/experimental/NeoFreerunner/ i don't get wifi.....) |
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| 14:45.13 | slaxxin | modules get installed? |
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| 14:46.31 | Zorkman | slaxxin: yes, i untarred them |
| 14:46.54 | Zorkman | i will probably be doing something wrong, but can't figure out what... |
| 14:47.27 | Zorkman | i had to install another kernel to be able to put the modules on the fr and untar them, then i reflashed to that newest kernel but ifconfig only gives me "lo" |
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| 15:11.35 | master_void | henk: i have a neo freerunner and use an image from branch org.openmoko.asu.stable |
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| 15:35.27 | saracen_ | My freerunner arrived today =) |
| 15:35.58 | SpeedEvil | saracen_: commiserations. |
| 15:36.03 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 15:36.06 | SpeedEvil | congratulations |
| 15:36.49 | saracen_ | :) |
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| 15:38.04 | Zorkman | enjoy it saracen_ |
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| 15:45.11 | Chocks | :o |
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| 16:43.03 | Chocks | the excitement |
| 16:43.34 | saracen_ | hmm, so I just flashed it with the latest filesystem and kernel, now it just has the openmoko logo... seems to have frozen during booting ;x |
| 16:43.39 | saracen_ | any ideas? |
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| 16:48.09 | Weiss | saracen_: kernel too big for u-boot? |
| 16:48.54 | saracen_ | How would I know? transfer got to 100%, while I was afk |
| 16:49.15 | saracen_ | I came back, and theres just the logo (the splash bootscreen one), no error messages |
| 16:49.26 | saracen_ | There a way to force restart? ;x |
| 16:51.06 | hiciu | remove battery? |
| 16:51.30 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@90.146.223.204) |
| 16:52.56 | saracen_ | Good point. In truth, I did try that and wondered why it was magically still on... (yeah, usb cable) =( |
| 16:52.56 | Weiss | which kernel did you use? (link?) |
| 16:53.10 | saracen_ | it was the one for 2008.12 release |
| 16:53.20 | saracen_ | http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/releases/Om2008.12/ |
| 16:53.36 | saracen_ | booted now |
| 16:55.24 | saracen_ | hmm, I think i'm missing some point. I booted just then by going to the NOR boot menu |
| 16:55.40 | saracen_ | shutdown, and now tried turning on phone again, same thing... |
| 16:55.52 | Weiss | so, NOR works, NAND doesn't? |
| 16:56.32 | saracen_ | if NAND is what usually boots, then yes. I can try going to the NAND menu and booting there... |
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| 16:57.22 | Weiss | yes, if you don't press anything, it'll use the bootloader from NAND to get started, but not show a menu |
| 16:58.02 | Weiss | it may be worth trying Qi, since it's faster and cleaner anyway |
| 16:58.09 | Chocks | and even more confusing ;-) |
| 16:58.14 | saracen_ | i just booted from the nand, it worked |
| 16:58.16 | saracen_ | Im confused |
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| 16:58.40 | Chocks | yes, there seems to be some issue with latest u-boot. mine doesn't come up from flash unless I explictly use the menu |
| 16:58.45 | saracen_ | I havent RTFM, I'm assuming the side button is "on", and not some "hold for logo of openmoko for no reason" |
| 16:58.51 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@93.84.112.66) |
| 16:59.05 | Chocks | aka bling button. |
| 17:00.36 | Weiss | the trouble with u-boot is that it does all kinds of initialisation of hardware which means the kernel has to start from a slightly weird state |
| 17:00.48 | Weiss | Qi is the answer to this - it does the absolute bare minimum |
| 17:01.23 | Weiss | and is faster, can boot bigger kernel images (if that's an issue for you), and has no separate boot menu to get confused by |
| 17:01.33 | *** join/#openmoko renato__ (n=renato@200.184.118.130) |
| 17:01.35 | Weiss | (faster bootloader means you get faster resume) |
| 17:03.29 | saracen_ | So, I imagine flashing Qi is the same as installing the kernel/filesystem, but to the u-boot partition? |
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| 17:04.02 | man1 | saracen_: It's way I did it |
| 17:04.09 | Weiss | yep, exactly |
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| 17:06.27 | Blu3 | buenos tacos |
| 17:06.36 | *** part/#openmoko mokel (n=hole@p5487C470.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:06.37 | *** join/#openmoko APz (n=fn-apz@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-fe19df00-212.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:06.37 | saracen_ | hmm, thought there was suppose to be some sort of wifi settings option for 2008.12 |
| 17:06.55 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkman (n=zork@78-22-123-127.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:07.28 | Blu3 | wifi works better if dhcp/static in /etc/network/interfaces so the shr-settings just turns it on/off |
| 17:07.36 | Blu3 | mofi just doesn't work |
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| 17:11.27 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 17:11.30 | Chocks | none of the wifi managers I tried with SHR work. |
| 17:11.36 | Chocks | all a bit sad story |
| 17:11.40 | Chocks | big |
| 17:11.55 | DocScrutinizer | conman 0.12 does, as stefan_schmidt announced 5min ago |
| 17:12.09 | Chocks | :o |
| 17:12.24 | Chocks | looks |
| 17:12.52 | Chocks | wonders where to look. |
| 17:13.03 | DocScrutinizer | no announcement on ML yet I assume |
| 17:13.20 | Chocks | I just look at archives, which is in any case delayed |
| 17:13.25 | DocScrutinizer | fso devels channel |
| 17:14.04 | Chocks | will settle for a URL |
| 17:14.04 | DocScrutinizer | anyway... |
| 17:14.10 | DocScrutinizer | away |
| 17:15.39 | tig| | Chocks: mofi works here on wpa networks |
| 17:15.45 | tig| | just turn wifi on first |
| 17:15.58 | Chocks | I did. |
| 17:16.02 | Chocks | mofi has a blank window |
| 17:16.40 | tig| | mofi takes a while to load |
| 17:16.54 | tig| | as when starting it is doing all the wifi scanning but does not give any feedback |
| 17:16.58 | Chocks | I see. |
| 17:17.56 | Chocks | tries again |
| 17:18.06 | tig| | but when SHR loads wifi is off (if you load settings just after it has loaded shr-settings sometimes tells you it is on even when it isn't :) ) |
| 17:18.49 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-088-065-087-099.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:19.07 | Chocks | waits for it. and waits. |
| 17:19.34 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.99.106) |
| 17:19.51 | tig| | the current testing image does seem to be more flakey for wifi at the moment but it does work |
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| 17:27.36 | Chocks | hum |
| 17:27.39 | Chocks | pokes his AP |
| 17:29.48 | Chocks | hm, if I only knew what IP it got |
| 17:30.09 | tig| | the mofi window should tell you |
| 17:30.55 | Chocks | it's nice and blank, so no |
| 17:31.03 | Chocks | :| |
| 17:31.08 | Chocks | arping not helping. |
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| 17:33.47 | Weiss | Chocks: the router's IP address, or the Neo's? |
| 17:33.53 | Chocks | Neo's |
| 17:33.59 | Weiss | ifconfig? |
| 17:34.04 | Chocks | :p |
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| 17:34.16 | Chocks | I shouldn't have to bring up a terminal on it, and tediously type that out |
| 17:34.35 | brokencycle | hi! |
| 17:34.36 | Weiss | no, you shouldn't, but maybe this time you do |
| 17:34.41 | Chocks | sobs |
| 17:34.57 | saracen_ | i dont think my SIM card works =( |
| 17:35.06 | Weiss | saracen_: bug #666? |
| 17:35.26 | mmontour | saracen_: have you upgraded to "moko11" GSM firmware? |
| 17:35.36 | Chocks | sobs more. the keyboard came up too wide |
| 17:35.58 | saracen_ | Err, < new. All I've done so far is charged the phone and flashed to 2008.12 |
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| 17:36.36 | *** part/#openmoko c0d3x42 (n=vince@78.33.60.2) |
| 17:36.59 | mmontour | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing (skip down to the "SD card" method) |
| 17:37.00 | Chocks | discovers no IP address has been assigned. |
| 17:38.17 | Chocks | blah |
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| 17:56.10 | rooly | so... |
| 17:56.35 | rooly | whadaya think would happen if we put...say...the Hurd as the FR's kernel |
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| 17:56.55 | Chocks | good idea. It'll be ready as soon as we can make a phone call. |
| 17:57.06 | tig| | hehe :) |
| 17:57.45 | rooly | avoids lol, "but really i was refering to performance |
| 17:57.47 | rooly | " |
| 17:59.24 | Chocks | got an ARM port of the Hurd? |
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| 18:00.12 | rooly | no...would it be difficult beyond modifying configs and then running make on it? |
| 18:00.39 | Chocks | yes |
| 18:00.55 | rooly | drivers i assume |
| 18:00.57 | Chocks | we are talking some months of work, if there's no ARM support already |
| 18:01.01 | Chocks | everything. |
| 18:01.05 | rooly | crap |
| 18:01.10 | rooly | fsck that then |
| 18:01.35 | Chocks | And yes, you still need drivers after that. |
| 18:01.36 | rooly | i don't have the time to invest in playing around like that |
| 18:01.53 | rooly | just to likely half-brick my fr |
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| 18:13.19 | master_void | hello, when i try to make the image "MokoMakefile" with this command "make fso-gta02-testing-image" the error is "ERROR: Nothing Provides 'fso-image'". i use this tutorial "http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile" |
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| 18:22.06 | saracen_ | mmontour: That worked, thank you :) |
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| 18:22.55 | DocScrutinizer | [2009-03-23 18:00:37] <Weiss> the trouble with u-boot is that it does all kinds of initialisation of hardware which means the kernel has to start from a slightly weird state |
| 18:23.35 | DocScrutinizer | uh, no. Kernel has to do no assumptions whatso ever about precious init of hw |
| 18:23.52 | DocScrutinizer | uBoot actually *does* some init. |
| 18:24.14 | *** join/#openmoko tomer (n=tomer@89-139-201-52.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 18:24.35 | DocScrutinizer | Kernel very faslely relying on some of these inits, though it shouldn't |
| 18:24.46 | Wonka | ugh. that's evil. |
| 18:24.52 | rooly | wow |
| 18:24.54 | rooly | that is bad |
| 18:24.56 | rooly | gross |
| 18:25.04 | rooly | no wonder its booted in debug |
| 18:25.07 | Wonka | and I seem to have a new hobby... |
| 18:25.14 | Wonka | leaving my FR at places... |
| 18:25.32 | DocScrutinizer | so not Qi is the solution, but part of the problem, and a clean kernel is solution to qi problem |
| 18:25.54 | Wonka | i'd deny Qi being part of the problem in this circumstances |
| 18:26.03 | Wonka | Qi helps finding the problem |
| 18:26.07 | *** join/#openmoko tomer_ (n=tomer@89-139-201-52.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 18:26.12 | Wonka | but Qi is not part of it, the Kernel ist |
| 18:26.16 | DocScrutinizer | well maybe I should s/problem/"problem"/ |
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| 18:30.10 | DocScrutinizer | lol, s/precious/previous/ |
| 18:35.20 | Chocks | moo. |
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| 18:39.19 | saracen_ | the texting app is pretty damn cool, I was thinking "how is my finger going to press one of those letters" ;x |
| 18:44.15 | rooly | which distro, saracen_ |
| 18:44.53 | saracen_ | 2008.12 |
| 18:45.24 | saracen_ | Although, i cant work much else out, other than that it predicts based on where your finger was |
| 18:45.39 | saracen_ | How do i do fullstops, for example =( |
| 18:46.03 | PaulFertser | saracen_: 2008.x is at end of life FYI |
| 18:46.29 | saracen_ | whens the next expected release? |
| 18:46.45 | rooly | wants to know this too |
| 18:47.35 | PaulFertser | saracen_: Read about paroli with FSO, that's what OM-the-company is going to release as the next official distro. Completely different comparing to 2008.x |
| 18:47.59 | rooly | wants messaging to be more |
| 18:47.59 | PaulFertser | saracen_: or you can go community way and use SHR (FSO based too) which is community-driven. |
| 18:48.09 | rooly | 'per-conversation' as opposed to 'per-message' |
| 18:48.41 | rooly | plus they really need to make sure that 1-xxx-xxx-xxxx and xxx-xxx-xxxx and recognized as the same thing |
| 18:48.53 | PaulFertser | rooly: SHR project is there for you to enjoy and hack. Just dig your C cross-compiler and improve the messaging app. |
| 18:48.53 | mirko-paroli | saracen_: next release is aimed for june, see angus' mail to community and devel |
| 18:49.12 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: the same goes for paroli :P |
| 18:49.19 | mirko-paroli | except no C compiling |
| 18:49.34 | PaulFertser | mirko-paroli: yes, sure. :) |
| 18:49.35 | dcordes | paroli? |
| 18:50.01 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host26-28-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:50.26 | PaulFertser | mirko-paroli: it's a bit strange to see how many users don't know much about what's going on... Community updates really suck. |
| 18:50.34 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: agreed |
| 18:51.09 | mirko-paroli | however the information distributed in these channels here is rather biased |
| 18:51.13 | mirko-paroli | but anyway |
| 18:51.24 | *** join/#openmoko pb__ (n=pb@89-168-150-245.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:51.28 | mirko-paroli | just to make it clear, git access to paroli is only a patch away |
| 18:52.46 | Chocks | it's on parole? |
| 18:53.03 | Chocks | biased? what? here? |
| 18:53.09 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.78.178.63) |
| 18:54.55 | PaulFertser | mirko-paroli: it's historically biased. Because those who's active advertise what they like/work on. Some SHR devs even haven't used Zhone btw :) A natural law. |
| 18:55.33 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.93.245) |
| 18:55.39 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: I just don't feel like debating again |
| 18:55.58 | PaulFertser | mirko-paroli: i too. Just explained why the information is biased. |
| 18:56.05 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: we would probably reach some form of agreement again, as we believe in the same it seems |
| 18:56.11 | Chocks | mirko-paroli: can you give me a 2 setence summary of what the point of paroli is? |
| 18:56.14 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: just not standing on the same side of the fence ... yet |
| 18:56.41 | PaulFertser | Chocks: why not read the official description? http://www.paroli-project.org/about-paroli/ |
| 18:56.48 | Chocks | I did. confusing. |
| 18:57.14 | mirko-paroli | Chocks: plugin-based python daemon to connecting to FSO and develop apps on/in it |
| 18:57.20 | mirko-paroli | oh sry |
| 18:57.26 | mirko-paroli | half the sentence is missing |
| 18:57.31 | mirko-paroli | goes searching for it |
| 18:57.42 | *** join/#openmoko dagger (n=dagger@piasek.co.uk) |
| 18:57.51 | Chocks | suggests the formatting on that page could be markedly improved |
| 18:58.18 | mirko-paroli | is always happy to receive patches, even for non-code |
| 18:58.27 | Chocks | well, just fix the line wraps :p |
| 18:58.57 | PaulFertser | mirko-paroli: i promise i won't forget to mention Paroli next time i'll be talking about various distros/environments. :) |
| 18:59.01 | mirko-paroli | in short, paroli is a layer between apps and fso, or that is the ultimate goal rather |
| 18:59.15 | Chocks | crazy middleware? |
| 18:59.17 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: nah, i like it quiet and forgotten :P |
| 18:59.55 | mirko-paroli | Chocks: the idea is to give non-programmers, or inexperienced ones and easy access |
| 19:00.10 | mirko-paroli | so we take most of the heavy dbus fighting and fso registering etc |
| 19:00.24 | mirko-paroli | and let the dev worry only about the app and the UI itself |
| 19:00.37 | Chocks | I see. And this fits into the goals of OM-the-company (OMTC)? |
| 19:00.48 | mirko-paroli | NOTE: that is the plan |
| 19:00.49 | mirko-paroli | not the reality |
| 19:00.59 | mirko-paroli | hehe |
| 19:01.01 | mirko-paroli | kinda |
| 19:01.02 | mirko-paroli | :P |
| 19:01.14 | Chocks | Ok, different topic, what is GTA02v7? |
| 19:01.37 | PaulFertser | Chocks: the next PCB revision. |
| 19:01.41 | *** join/#openmoko znik (n=joker@59.177.64.172) |
| 19:02.14 | PaulFertser | Chocks: has a buzz fix and a weird cap lowering volume for the earpiece. AFAIK |
| 19:02.27 | Chocks | right. |
| 19:02.48 | Chocks | And what are the current/planned/pipedream changes for GTA03? |
| 19:03.31 | DocScrutinizer | ha |
| 19:03.33 | PaulFertser | Chocks: what is widely known is that it will have a capacitive touch-screen and will be more end-user targeted. |
| 19:03.57 | Chocks | Same CPU? |
| 19:03.57 | PaulFertser | Chocks: and it will not have that fucking glamo :) |
| 19:04.04 | PaulFertser | Chocks: no, better and faster. |
| 19:04.11 | PaulFertser | Chocks: S3C6410 |
| 19:04.26 | Chocks | what gfx chip? And almost certainly similar/same GSM hardware? |
| 19:04.42 | PaulFertser | Integrated graphical core, afaik. GSM hardware is much better. |
| 19:04.54 | Chocks | Ah yes. |
| 19:04.55 | PaulFertser | Chocks: EDGE support with a sane modern enough modem. |
| 19:05.01 | Chocks | right. |
| 19:05.51 | Chocks | same physical dimensions, buttons? |
| 19:05.53 | DocScrutinizer | only thing widely unknown but for sure is specs and even intention do do gta03 massively changed at least every 3 months |
| 19:06.01 | Chocks | heh. |
| 19:06.04 | Chocks | yes. |
| 19:06.21 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: am i right in understanding that A7 rev won't include the ultimate buzz fix and only internal mic will be fixed? |
| 19:06.33 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 19:06.48 | DocScrutinizer | A7 is A6 with buzzfix |
| 19:06.58 | DocScrutinizer | big-C fix |
| 19:07.05 | PaulFertser | And a stupid earpiece cap :( |
| 19:07.31 | DocScrutinizer | well this one resurrected every once in a while |
| 19:07.47 | DocScrutinizer | need to short |
| 19:08.34 | znik | is the organisation taking part in gsoc? |
| 19:08.45 | DocScrutinizer | it's virtually impossible to find out about whether and when it was in for A4/5/6 |
| 19:08.45 | mirko-paroli | znik: nope |
| 19:09.18 | znik | mirko-paroli: is thr any simmilar organization in gsoc? |
| 19:09.35 | mirko-paroli | znik: I believe shr and fso tried |
| 19:09.36 | mirko-paroli | not sure if they were admitted |
| 19:09.46 | Chocks | There does seem to be a lack of leadership and/or direction at OMTC. For example, the current sitation with software could have been hugely different by just supplying a degree of direction and goals to the community. Nothing overhanded, just something. |
| 19:10.06 | znik | mirko-paroli: thanks |
| 19:10.17 | mirko-paroli | znik: sry it was a negative answer |
| 19:10.30 | mirko-paroli | truly wish it would have been different |
| 19:10.34 | *** join/#openmoko man1 (n=sabban@demon.enst.fr) |
| 19:10.42 | znik | mirko-paroli: i thnk so too |
| 19:10.59 | Chocks | is Michael Shiloh still doing stuff? |
| 19:11.16 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: afaik current stock of A6 is reworked big-C to be same as A7 |
| 19:11.33 | znik | mirko-paroli: is thr any contributors program kind of thing for openmoko like OLPC! |
| 19:12.01 | DocScrutinizer | I *think* Michael left |
| 19:12.14 | mirko-paroli | not sure what you are hinting at, but there is no funding from OM towards community development |
| 19:12.18 | Chocks | he got pretty quiet after FR went on sale |
| 19:12.19 | mirko-paroli | afaik |
| 19:12.55 | Chocks | is not hinting at funding, if you were talking to me. |
| 19:13.11 | znik | mirko-paroli: OLPC give XOs to ppl who would like to contribute in any kind.This way developers could test their programs real time! |
| 19:13.19 | mirko-paroli | znik: ah |
| 19:13.39 | mirko-paroli | znik: not sure, how that is handled now ... |
| 19:13.44 | Chocks | appreciates that free hardware, etc, etc is often difficult/impractical. but that's not what I'm talking aobut. |
| 19:13.48 | znik | mirko-paroli: does OM deliver freerunner etc for testing purposes? |
| 19:14.16 | DocScrutinizer | znik: getting harder |
| 19:14.24 | mirko-paroli | wow, you have questions, I am the gui guy ... not really involved in shipping, testing, marketing, sales or likewise |
| 19:14.30 | mirko-paroli | but right now I wouldn't count on it |
| 19:14.50 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 19:14.54 | mirko-paroli | but DocScrutinizer is the better qualified to answer those questions |
| 19:15.01 | znik | mirko-paroli: its ok! i was only considering of such an option |
| 19:15.17 | znik | DocScrutinizer: hi |
| 19:15.21 | mirko-paroli | znik: once again, I think you are on the right track and wish it was done |
| 19:15.44 | znik | DocScrutinizer: getting harder???? |
| 19:16.01 | DocScrutinizer | I pushed hard to get the one for Ainulindale shipped |
| 19:16.49 | DocScrutinizer | now a lot of staff left who were very helpful back when |
| 19:19.03 | *** part/#openmoko znik (n=joker@59.177.64.172) |
| 19:19.31 | DocScrutinizer | (including myself ;) |
| 19:20.01 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=Maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 19:20.03 | mirko-paroli | sheds a tear |
| 19:20.48 | DocScrutinizer | no sarcasm please, mirko-paroli ;) |
| 19:21.33 | mirko-paroli | hej, DocScrutinizer that's not nice, I am not happy about all that, not at all |
| 19:21.45 | mirko-paroli | quite the opposite |
| 19:23.18 | rooly | mirko-paroli, i'm looking at paroli, and i'm wondering how i get what you have there working |
| 19:23.30 | rooly | i'll search around to see if i can get it installed because it looks sexy so far |
| 19:23.49 | mirko-paroli | the easiest is the imafe |
| 19:23.50 | mirko-paroli | image |
| 19:23.56 | mirko-paroli | what distro do you use? |
| 19:24.12 | rooly | atm, i'm using qte 4.4.1 |
| 19:24.16 | mirko-paroli | oh |
| 19:24.16 | rooly | and rather hate it |
| 19:24.21 | saracen_ | Anybody here personally tried Android on the freerunner? Wondering what it's like speed-wise |
| 19:24.30 | Chocks | pretty usable |
| 19:24.48 | Chocks | although still too many bugs to be practical in the current snapshots. |
| 19:24.51 | mirko-paroli | rooly: are you good with booting from SD and all that ? |
| 19:24.58 | saracen_ | What is the most usable distro atm, for everyday use? (Want to try that out, before I start hacking) |
| 19:25.24 | mirko-paroli | saracen_: before anyone else says it: SHR |
| 19:25.29 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: :P |
| 19:26.18 | PaulFertser | mirko-paroli: how about installing paroli on SHR btw, are there any incompatible dependencies? |
| 19:26.26 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: should work |
| 19:26.31 | mirko-paroli | think vininim tried it once |
| 19:26.43 | rooly | mirko-paroli i've done it |
| 19:26.55 | mirko-paroli | ah |
| 19:27.01 | mirko-paroli | yeah, should be no prob |
| 19:27.24 | rooly | mirko-paroli, i'm looking at paroli on your site and it looks rather sexy so far |
| 19:27.38 | Chocks | sexonnastick |
| 19:27.41 | mirko-paroli | rooly: check http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/unstable/NeoFreerunner/ |
| 19:28.31 | mirko-paroli | there is a paroli image |
| 19:28.39 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@91-113-121-115.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 19:28.58 | mirko-paroli | that boots directly into paroli and yes you can switch off the "full-screen" occupying devil ;) |
| 19:29.02 | Chocks | :o |
| 19:29.13 | rooly | atm wants a phone for phone's sake |
| 19:29.36 | mirko-paroli | rooly: that should work |
| 19:29.54 | mirko-paroli | if you have patience with some of the other apps |
| 19:30.08 | mirko-paroli | currently building a pager mechanism to make lists somewhat usable |
| 19:30.09 | rooly | is a very patient person |
| 19:30.25 | rooly | and zhone/fso were the most stable yet |
| 19:30.29 | mirko-paroli | I was told calling works well |
| 19:30.32 | mirko-paroli | the rest probably not so much |
| 19:30.50 | rooly | should i use qi or keep my uboot |
| 19:31.06 | saracen_ | What is paroli? =( I'm confused |
| 19:31.16 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 19:31.31 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: good at creating a two sentence summary? |
| 19:31.32 | mirko-paroli | I'll publish it on the page as well |
| 19:31.42 | *** join/#openmoko kirun (n=kirun@78-86-154-194.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:31.43 | mirko-paroli | to have something to point to |
| 19:32.10 | mirko-paroli | rooly: I believe in theory both should work |
| 19:32.12 | henk | rooly: qi |
| 19:32.41 | mirko-paroli | hides as he has never managed to get it to work ... the booting from sd that is |
| 19:32.45 | PaulFertser | mirko-paroli: i'm not native, moreover i only read your description, so i won't dare :) You previous one-sentence explanation sounded very easy to understand btw. |
| 19:33.20 | rooly | is good at summaries after experience using |
| 19:33.25 | sleipnir | anyone here has more info on andy's leaving? |
| 19:33.30 | mmontour | My recommended approach is: Qi bootloader, single partition on SD holding kernel and rootfs, NAND kernel+rootfs that exports the SD-card as a USB storage device |
| 19:34.37 | johnsu01 | mmontour: why as a usb storage device? |
| 19:34.40 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: in short, paroli is a layer between apps and fso, the idea is to give non-programmers, or inexperienced ones and easy access so we take most of the heavy dbus fighting and fso registering etc and let the dev worry only about the app and the UI itself |
| 19:34.41 | mmontour | This way Qi boots your OS from SD by default but you can use the Aux button to boot from NAND when you want to re-install the SD card |
| 19:35.07 | rooly | doesn't want to boot from SD |
| 19:35.09 | mmontour | This avoids ever having to take the SD card out of the FR |
| 19:35.09 | rooly | i want nand |
| 19:35.30 | rooly | ...faster |
| 19:35.40 | rooly | marginally, but still |
| 19:36.13 | PaulFertser | mirko-paroli: i'd mention the python plugin idea too, because many people feel like python is too slow and not having to start a new intepreter for every app is an obvious benefit. |
| 19:36.23 | mmontour | In that case I would stick with u-boot for now |
| 19:36.54 | *** join/#openmoko mortenlysgaard (n=mortenly@85.221.51.48) |
| 19:37.01 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: ah k thx |
| 19:37.22 | rooly | mirko-paroli, how might i set the time from paroli |
| 19:37.41 | mirko-paroli | if you click on the time |
| 19:37.47 | mirko-paroli | the colon should start blinking |
| 19:37.54 | rooly | fawesome |
| 19:38.01 | mirko-paroli | then you can adjust the time with the aux-button |
| 19:38.14 | mirko-paroli | pressing == one minute |
| 19:38.22 | mirko-paroli | holding == ... ehm ... |
| 19:39.17 | rooly | yeah...i need hours... |
| 19:39.32 | mirko-paroli | yeah it is 10 minute steps right ? |
| 19:39.42 | rooly | i'm about to flash it as soon as it finishes |
| 19:40.04 | rooly | i don't really care about flashing in and out images |
| 19:40.16 | rooly | takes only a few minutes to set back my preferences in any distro |
| 19:40.18 | *** join/#openmoko DrRabbit (n=xchat@ip68-99-219-29.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 19:41.36 | rooly | i just hate having to reset the time by 18 hours every time... |
| 19:44.32 | DocScrutinizer | mirko-paroli: the much-behatred weird "will-sheme"? ;D |
| 19:44.56 | mirko-paroli | LOL |
| 19:45.11 | mirko-paroli | I wish I had time to do a propper settings app |
| 19:45.17 | mirko-paroli | clock would be first on the menu ;) |
| 19:45.26 | DocScrutinizer | ack |
| 19:45.42 | mirko-paroli | followed by, alarm, wifi, bt, gps, gprs |
| 19:45.49 | mirko-paroli | and many many other fun things |
| 19:45.58 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 19:46.21 | mirko-paroli | sooooon |
| 19:46.22 | mirko-paroli | :) |
| 19:47.56 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@f051174044.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:48.23 | rooly | flashing now |
| 19:48.49 | rooly | mirko-paroli, i'll help out with what time i have |
| 19:49.25 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=toi@d54C2AAB7.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:49.36 | mirko-paroli | rooly: would be great, but just to warn you, many got frustrated because of the guidelines I have to follow |
| 19:49.39 | mirko-paroli | so my tip is |
| 19:49.47 | mirko-paroli | if you like the design and the way it works in general |
| 19:50.30 | mirko-paroli | feel free to create your own apps and explore what paroli is capable of doing because our reference apps are not exploring really ... |
| 19:51.12 | mirko-paroli | rooly: I will also support you on that of course |
| 19:51.37 | *** join/#openmoko agg1n (n=jan@static-87-245-14-99.teleos-web.de) |
| 19:51.37 | mirko-paroli | and happily so :) |
| 19:52.12 | rooly | needs to learn python tho |
| 19:52.16 | rooly | i'm a c/c++ coder |
| 19:52.18 | mirko-paroli | ah |
| 19:52.26 | mirko-paroli | you could also jump to phase 2 :) |
| 19:52.27 | rooly | no, i need to learn python anyway |
| 19:52.37 | rooly | to old to not know python |
| 19:52.41 | mirko-paroli | hehe |
| 19:53.04 | mirko-paroli | I think it is more like an odd dialect of C ... says me not knowing C :) |
| 19:53.14 | rooly | lol |
| 19:53.45 | rooly | ime, python is more reminiscent of c combined with a useable java |
| 19:54.23 | rooly | is gonna stick with uboot |
| 19:54.57 | DocScrutinizer | wonders where there is any diff between coding-lang following same pragma |
| 19:55.18 | *** join/#openmoko khorben (n=dont@AGrenoble-257-1-61-114.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:55.25 | Chocks | emacs! |
| 19:55.25 | Chocks | vi! |
| 19:58.10 | sleipnir | so noone has any info on why andy left and how kernel development will look like in the future??? |
| 19:58.49 | Chocks | heh |
| 19:58.51 | Chocks | Linus. |
| 19:59.43 | Defiant- | wtf andy left? |
| 19:59.47 | *** join/#openmoko Piet (i=pietor@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xC5C71DCE) |
| 20:00.42 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@94.36.110.25) |
| 20:01.01 | *** join/#openmoko DorX (n=freak@p5B3B2E8A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:01.23 | *** join/#openmoko Piet (i=pietor@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xC5C71DCE) |
| 20:01.49 | *** part/#openmoko DorX (n=freak@p5B3B2E8A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:03.00 | PaulFertser | Python has closures and other functional language features. Makes a lot of difference, afaik. |
| 20:03.56 | *** join/#openmoko Amygos (n=amygos@adsl-ull-168-237.49-151.net24.it) |
| 20:04.34 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=toi@d54C2AAB7.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:04.43 | Chocks | bash, all the way, baby |
| 20:04.47 | *** join/#openmoko edje (n=chatzill@pced.ipv6.kapitein.org) |
| 20:05.10 | sleipnir | Defiant-: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2009-March/009574.html |
| 20:05.31 | Defiant- | sleipnir: thx |
| 20:07.34 | rooly | is about 70% done flashing |
| 20:08.39 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@79-66-81-39.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:09.18 | *** join/#openmoko poco (n=neil@vau06-1-89-85-32-52.dsl.club-internet.fr) |
| 20:10.29 | *** join/#openmoko moocow (n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca) |
| 20:11.55 | mirko-paroli | hopes rooly is not too devasted after flashing ... |
| 20:12.01 | rooly | lol |
| 20:12.11 | rooly | qte4.4.1 is just a couple types away |
| 20:12.22 | mirko-paroli | lol |
| 20:12.23 | saracen_ | what is it youre flashing atm? |
| 20:12.29 | rooly | fso-paroli |
| 20:12.35 | saracen_ | ah, yeah, me too :P |
| 20:12.42 | rooly | its a race then |
| 20:13.04 | saracen_ | Firefox failed the download, so I resumed it with wget, while flashing... So, "stream flashing" doesnt work. Just incase you wondered. |
| 20:13.23 | saracen_ | youre way a head, due to my streamflash failure :) |
| 20:13.44 | rooly | lol |
| 20:13.45 | rooly | ouch |
| 20:14.10 | *** join/#openmoko AVee (n=AVee@edsger.d6.nl) |
| 20:15.30 | rooly | booting |
| 20:15.34 | Blu3 | what package on shr has the predictive keyboard, or, how can i disable it from my list of keyboards? |
| 20:15.38 | rooly | i take it paroli runs on a full x server |
| 20:15.51 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 20:15.51 | mirko-paroli | rooly: yepp |
| 20:15.53 | Chocks | :o |
| 20:15.57 | Chocks | full X, bring it |
| 20:16.07 | rooly | what about x forwarding |
| 20:16.12 | Chocks | ssh, baby |
| 20:16.20 | rooly | back and forth? |
| 20:16.26 | Chocks | whatever you need to do :p |
| 20:17.06 | *** join/#openmoko lunartear (n=cayres@ip68-102-234-195.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 20:18.16 | rooly | asu doesn't do incoming x forwarding... |
| 20:20.47 | rooly | laughs at the hand-drawn squiggle used for charging |
| 20:20.47 | Chocks | :o |
| 20:22.50 | rooly | mirko-paroli how do i do things like scroll |
| 20:22.59 | mirko-paroli | haha |
| 20:23.01 | mirko-paroli | yeah |
| 20:23.04 | mirko-paroli | welcome to my world |
| 20:23.13 | mirko-paroli | etk scrolling has been broken since ages |
| 20:23.23 | mirko-paroli | and elm segfaults on me all the time |
| 20:23.33 | mirko-paroli | so I handcrafted a paging mechanism just now |
| 20:23.43 | mirko-paroli | hope I get it into the image tonight |
| 20:23.47 | Chocks | moo. |
| 20:23.50 | mirko-paroli | feels ashamed |
| 20:24.14 | Chocks | ashes to ashamed |
| 20:24.28 | Chocks | as long as your name isn't ashmed |
| 20:24.46 | mirko-paroli | Chocks: uuuuu cheap :P |
| 20:24.56 | Chocks | cheap comedian? yessir. |
| 20:26.13 | mirko-paroli | :) |
| 20:26.58 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: In short, paroli is a layer between applications and fso. The idea is to give non-programmers, or inexperienced ones, easy access to the device. So the core takes care of most of the heavy dbus fighting and fso registering etc and lets the devs worry only about the app and the UI itself. Paroli is plug-in based and requires only a single python instance to run any number of applets and services. |
| 20:27.32 | *** join/#openmoko t0h (n=tommi@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-fe0cdf00-1.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:30.10 | PaulFertser | mirko-paroli: Sounds good to me :) Make FSO a hyperlink and probably everyone who can read will understand what paroli is after in a matter of seconds. :) Probably in some part of description you might want to add some "retaliation" to the claims you're re-inventing the wheel :) |
| 20:30.37 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: LOL |
| 20:31.05 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: following the talks on cdevel, i think there is more people that have the idea of an extra layer |
| 20:31.19 | rooly | the dialer is kickin' ass |
| 20:31.42 | saracen_ | I think i'm booting in.. |
| 20:31.46 | Chocks | wants a kicked horse-donkey hybrid |
| 20:32.01 | saracen_ | It said configuring a punch of kernel modules, now I have a black screen |
| 20:32.12 | mirko-paroli | saracen_: patience ;) |
| 20:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@g228082159.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:32.33 | saracen_ | Ah, I see :P |
| 20:32.47 | PaulFertser | mirko-paroli: i'm usually afraid of extra layers. After having some experience with microsoft windows api over-engineering is scaring me. Probably some people feel the same. |
| 20:33.27 | saracen_ | I/O Msgs Tele People... |
| 20:33.27 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser: it should always be optional |
| 20:33.31 | saracen_ | Whats this? =( |
| 20:33.37 | mirko-paroli | I/o = call logs |
| 20:33.40 | mirko-paroli | Msgs = SMS |
| 20:33.43 | mirko-paroli | Tele = Dialer |
| 20:33.47 | mirko-paroli | People = PhoneBook |
| 20:33.51 | saracen_ | should they be clickable? |
| 20:34.00 | mirko-paroli | yepp, if they are still gray |
| 20:34.07 | mirko-paroli | then you aren't registered yet |
| 20:34.21 | mirko-paroli | if you have no SIM in the phone, wait 30 secs, the request times out |
| 20:34.26 | mirko-paroli | and gives you access to the apps |
| 20:34.44 | saracen_ | Ah, but I had to do the MOTO11 thing to get this sim to work |
| 20:34.47 | saracen_ | MOKO* |
| 20:35.24 | PaulFertser | saracen_: once you did it, it works for every distro :) |
| 20:35.38 | saracen_ | but I have to do it again? |
| 20:35.38 | slaxxin | where is your latest images mirkjo? |
| 20:35.48 | slaxxin | -j |
| 20:35.51 | mirko-paroli | http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/unstable/NeoFreerunner/ |
| 20:36.00 | mirko-paroli | fso-paroli-image-om-gta02.jffs2 |
| 20:36.42 | saracen_ | Do I just do the MOTO11 thing again? |
| 20:37.16 | mirko-paroli | saracen_: iirc you flashed the modem firmware |
| 20:37.30 | mirko-paroli | that is not affected by any distro flashing |
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| 20:37.48 | freerunnerlive | what about icq and pidgin |
| 20:37.59 | saracen_ | I see |
| 20:38.10 | saracen_ | mirko-paroli: GSM init timed out |
| 20:38.10 | freerunnerlive | pidgin need a new version of pidgin but i can not find version 2.5.5 |
| 20:38.18 | freerunnerlive | is there a solution ? |
| 20:38.24 | mirko-paroli | saracen_: a sim you have in the phone ? |
| 20:38.30 | mirko-paroli | sounds like yoda |
| 20:38.44 | saracen_ | mirko-paroli: Yeah, the sim is in the phone |
| 20:38.51 | mirko-paroli | hmm that is bad then ... |
| 20:38.53 | Chocks | 900 years old, this good you look, hmmmm? |
| 20:38.58 | saracen_ | Cant read messages from it, either. |
| 20:39.25 | mirko-paroli | it means that the fso timed out |
| 20:39.52 | mirko-paroli | *ponder |
| 20:39.53 | mirko-paroli | * |
| 20:39.57 | mirko-paroli | you could ssh into the phone |
| 20:40.01 | mirko-paroli | and check the fso log |
| 20:40.05 | mirko-paroli | or syslog in this case |
| 20:40.12 | mirko-paroli | to see if the fso can read your sim |
| 20:40.18 | mirko-paroli | any special SIM ? |
| 20:40.41 | saracen_ | just an O2 P&G |
| 20:40.47 | mirko-paroli | hmm |
| 20:42.08 | saracen_ | where would i find these logs? |
| 20:42.23 | mirko-paroli | do a logread in your console |
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| 20:54.40 | SM2k | I keep getting dfu_upload error -110 while attempting to back up the rootfs partition using dfu-util. it doesn't always fail at the same point |
| 20:56.31 | saracen_ | mirko-paroli: I restarted, it eventually registered |
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| 20:56.51 | mirko-paroli | saracen_: glad to hear that |
| 20:56.55 | saracen_ | mirko-paroli: Anyway to turn up the volume on calls? |
| 20:57.00 | SM2k | http://pastebin.ca/1369552 |
| 20:57.17 | mirko-paroli | saracen_: shoudl be clicking the aux button |
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| 20:59.57 | SM2k | I can't even get 1/30th of the way thru the backup before it simply hangs and then dies with that error :-P |
| 21:00.12 | mmontour | SM2k: short answer = "give up" |
| 21:00.24 | SM2k | not an option :-P |
| 21:00.33 | Chocks | try harder ;-) |
| 21:00.37 | SM2k | hah |
| 21:01.07 | mmontour | There used to be a u-boot bug that broke dfu-util upload. I think (but am not sure) that it was fixed at some point. |
| 21:01.17 | Chocks | mmmmmontourmmm. |
| 21:01.29 | SM2k | so use nand. |
| 21:01.48 | SM2k | nope. no different |
| 21:02.21 | bjdooks | breaks the usb analyser, again |
| 21:02.26 | Chocks | aw. |
| 21:02.28 | DocScrutinizer | SM2k: use linux? |
| 21:02.38 | SM2k | I am using linux :-) |
| 21:02.54 | mmontour | Is your NAND u-boot up to date? |
| 21:03.21 | SM2k | I'm using gta02v5_and_up-u-boot.bin from 2008.12 |
| 21:03.34 | DocScrutinizer | hmm I never heard this type of failure with "good" usb-cable then |
| 21:03.41 | SM2k | I couldn't find one for SHR when trolling the repos |
| 21:04.17 | SM2k | DocScrutinizer: the cables likely good. It's worked without fail for a number of devices, I've just never tried to back up before. |
| 21:04.30 | mmontour | checked the git log - 2008-10-07 "Fix DFU upload in u-boot" |
| 21:05.11 | SM2k | U-Boot 1.3.2-moko12 (Dec 17 2008 - 00:49:17) |
| 21:05.42 | Chocks | :o |
| 21:06.07 | SM2k | switched cables. same result. that's one variable removed. |
| 21:06.21 | SM2k | anybody have a clue what -110 is? |
| 21:06.46 | DocScrutinizer | SM2k: backup is borked to the point of downloading whole partitiom then -110 |
| 21:07.05 | nezza-_- | can anyone explain to me how i can update the version of elementary in shr-testing? |
| 21:07.13 | DocScrutinizer | <ever heard of premature aborts though |
| 21:07.14 | SM2k | DocScrutinizer: I'm getting a variable number of bytes before failure |
| 21:07.35 | saracen_ | mirko-paroli: If I was to install debian, think paroli would run on top of it? |
| 21:08.03 | SM2k | took the hub out of play just in case |
| 21:08.05 | mirko-paroli | saracen_: not before we get a full elementary version ready, there is no etk package for debian |
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| 21:08.20 | DocScrutinizer | SM2k: nobody cared so far as backup this way is a non-sense |
| 21:08.26 | SM2k | fingers crossed. this looks better |
| 21:08.36 | SM2k | DocScrutinizer: oh? |
| 21:09.00 | DocScrutinizer | scp / to host-pc |
| 21:09.09 | DocScrutinizer | flash new image |
| 21:09.18 | SM2k | DocScrutinizer: of really? ok |
| 21:09.20 | DocScrutinizer | restore config files |
| 21:10.00 | SM2k | I assume this is because the size of the partition doesn't match the size of the image? |
| 21:10.09 | DocScrutinizer | using scp another time |
| 21:10.30 | SM2k | I normally wouldn't try to back up / like that cause trying to copy /proc or /sys does nasty things |
| 21:10.52 | SM2k | what kind of config files would need to be touched up after than process? |
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| 21:11.20 | DocScrutinizer | hmm it's a little more work than just copying /, I admit |
| 21:11.25 | SM2k | by the by. it really was the hub causing issues. plugging directly into the machine caused the error to go away. |
| 21:12.18 | DocScrutinizer | heh, thaat's written in wiki, isn't it? ;D |
| 21:12.24 | SM2k | so this image I'm pulling off the openmoko can't/shouldn't be flashed back onto a device? |
| 21:12.57 | DocScrutinizer | SM2k: you may try. might even work |
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| 21:13.20 | SM2k | It is important that you connect the USB cable directly from your computer to your phone. If there is a hub between them, backup (and flashing) will mostly likely fail. aye the text your refer to is present. :-) |
| 21:13.28 | DocScrutinizer | just nobody seen any use in doing this so far |
| 21:14.16 | DocScrutinizer | running to get some pizza now |
| 21:14.41 | SM2k | DocScrutinizer: well, I'm trying to provision a base image to flash to multiple phones. in the interest of time I'm trying the admittedly lame approach of building a base image manually. I'll script building the image later |
| 21:18.43 | DocScrutinizer | fair enough. Please report whether flashing your freshly created backup works |
| 21:19.08 | SM2k | it occurs to me I might need to delete ssh keys since I've booted the phone once. |
| 21:19.20 | SM2k | anything else I should scrub in your mind? |
| 21:21.48 | DocScrutinizer | SM2k: (ssh keys): `ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null root@192.168.0.202` ?? |
| 21:23.01 | tomboy64 | test |
| 21:23.17 | tomboy64 | test |
| 21:23.24 | SM2k | eh? no I'm more concerned with the fact that I'd have multiple phones with the same server keys |
| 21:23.31 | SM2k | hi tomboy64 |
| 21:23.37 | tomboy64 | hihi |
| 21:23.47 | DocScrutinizer | SM2k: bit for creating an image to flash mutliple phones yeah probably scrub them |
| 21:23.48 | SM2k | I assume that's what "test" is for |
| 21:24.04 | tomboy64 | :-D |
| 21:24.05 | tomboy64 | no |
| 21:24.22 | tomboy64 | i removed pre- and postfix from my timestamps and nick-displays |
| 21:24.29 | DocScrutinizer | wooow, rain, hail, and **LiGhTnInG** outside :D |
| 21:24.34 | tomboy64 | so that i can see moooaaar text |
| 21:24.36 | SM2k | DocScrutinizer: well one things certain, this "bloats" the image. |
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| 21:26.42 | SM2k | hrm. mebbe easier to just go snag an ubuntu liveCD and use ipkg... |
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| 21:28.36 | Chocks | oops ^ reboot my router at home :o |
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| 21:29.27 | DocScrutinizer | SM2k: (bloats) this tiny keyfile? |
| 21:29.39 | mmontour | SM2k: it is possible to mount a jffs2 image on your pc using 'mtdram', make changes, then create a new image with mkfs.jffs2 |
| 21:30.12 | SM2k | nah. dfu-util an 88M image to the phone then retrieve it with dfu-util and you get a much larger image back off |
| 21:30.18 | SM2k | mmontour: yes |
| 21:30.21 | DocScrutinizer | mmontour: that's the way, yup |
| 21:30.21 | SM2k | I do that |
| 21:30.25 | SM2k | but I don't have ipkg |
| 21:30.42 | SM2k | so I can't install a couple of packages I need to |
| 21:30.45 | Chocks | opkg |
| 21:30.46 | Chocks | :p |
| 21:31.02 | SM2k | aye |
| 21:31.10 | DocScrutinizer | SM2k: as I told ya: backup will get the whole partition |
| 21:31.16 | SM2k | yes |
| 21:31.28 | mmontour | you may be able to fake it with 'ar' (.ipks are 'ar' archives containing a 'data.tar.gz' with the actual files) |
| 21:31.58 | DocScrutinizer | SM2k: prbably your image is 256M then |
| 21:32.07 | SM2k | mmontour: I built my ipk files by hand actually. doesn't the system have some sort of package database I'd then need to futz with? |
| 21:32.28 | SM2k | DocScrutinizer: will be after it downloads. this is slow. :-) |
| 21:33.17 | DocScrutinizer | yeah some 40min presumably |
| 21:33.18 | mmontour | the FR uses "opkg", similar to ipkg but with different bugs |
| 21:33.30 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 21:33.48 | DocScrutinizer | it has much *better* bugs ;) |
| 21:34.04 | mmontour | I didn't want to pass judgement on them |
| 21:34.09 | SM2k | at least you didn't refer to them as undocumented features |
| 21:34.45 | nezza-_- | can anybody explain me why bitbake -c rebuild elementary still gives me an old version of Elementary? |
| 21:35.03 | DocScrutinizer | fsk, now weather is ok again, and pizza bakery is closed :( |
| 21:35.16 | SM2k | toolchain has a copy of opkg-cl iirc |
| 21:35.46 | SM2k | DocScrutinizer: sucks |
| 21:37.04 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r029e859d539d 10/vapi/ecore.vapi: ecore.vapi: add FdHandlerFlags and ExeFlags |
| 21:37.06 | CIA-54 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * rf40799346258 10/examples/library/ (Makefile.am mainloops.vala): mainloops: more work on inter-thread-communication infrastructure |
| 21:41.25 | saracen_ | Will i run in to problems if I use for 4GB microsd card? |
| 21:42.24 | SM2k | saracen_: there's no reason you should have trouble. |
| 21:42.56 | SM2k | come to think of it, what's the max parition size for FAT32? |
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| 21:45.50 | SM2k | hah. DocScrutinizer by the by, the moko hits dfu_upload error -84 when you try to back up the entire partition exactly as http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-August/026773.html |
| 21:46.08 | SM2k | tries mtdram |
| 21:46.27 | Chocks | mmmmmmmmmmmmmoooooooo! |
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| 21:53.01 | azaghal | saracen_: There was some page on wiki with list of compatible cards and problematic ones. |
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| 21:56.43 | AVee | That list would be http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards |
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| 21:59.11 | SM2k | mmontour: I mounted my image in ram to make changes. I made the mtdram exactly the same size as the original image... when I try to make changes, I get "no space left on device" |
| 21:59.51 | SM2k | I assume therefore that I need to make the mtfram bigger than the original image? not familiar enough with the inner workings of jffs2 |
| 22:00.34 | SM2k | mtdram |
| 22:01.12 | mmontour | mtdram may not let you modify files in-place. Just copy the directory tree to your hard drive and work on it there ("cp -a" or similar to preserve permissions, device files, etc). |
| 22:01.43 | SM2k | ah. that makes sense. |
| 22:02.11 | SM2k | http://mhonarc.axis.se/jffs-dev/msg01316.html <<< it might let me, but making mtdram exactlyt he same size isn't going to help my cause |
| 22:02.49 | SM2k | I assume it's possible to reconstruct a new jffs2 filesystem image after making my modifications |
| 22:03.30 | mmontour | "mkfs.jffs2". You need to tell it the eraseblock size (128K) and tell it to use padding. I don't remember the exact command-line args to do this |
| 22:04.03 | SM2k | that's enough to go on I think. :-) thanks |
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| 22:34.52 | johnsu01 | I'm not sure what's going on with ecore_input, but building e17 is causing me all kinds of problems |
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| 23:20.11 | spaetz | mickey|zzZZzz: examples/library/mainloops.vala:55.13-55.23: error: The name `close' does not exist in the context of `Posix' Posix.close( writefd ); |
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| 23:27.05 | Chocks | hm, it's me. |
| 23:27.25 | Chocks | dunno why bitchx took 3 hours to auto-rejoin |
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