| 00:01.26 | badcloud | wifi is crawling along for some reason |
| 00:01.57 | badcloud | 315ms to google.com |
| 00:03.09 | eolson | badcloud, tracepath? (although that's probably not much help if the issue is on the freerunner) |
| 00:04.03 | badcloud | I'm getting 0.2ms on my laptop wifi |
| 00:04.05 | badcloud | same router |
| 00:04.17 | Fougner | oh |
| 00:06.52 | Dave | icky |
| 00:07.06 | Dave | so, between iphone, android, and openmoko, where do you guys lie? |
| 00:07.40 | Fougner | iphone seems to be quite nifty |
| 00:09.41 | mwester | My wife has an iphone which she loves, I still have found nothing that beats my venerable old Treo650 w/PalmOS, and I'm still here after two years struggling to get the GTA0x devices to give me what I really want, which is a fully-open, linux user-space, and fully-functional cell-phone. There isnt' anything else in the market that does that. |
| 00:10.06 | mwester | So there's still hope for Openmoko, it's just that in the two years, their niche has gotten much much much more cramped. |
| 00:10.19 | mjr | yeah it has |
| 00:11.01 | mwester | But I'm also of the opinion that the final solutions will come from the community, after enough of the "openmoko-fanboys" grow weary of Sean, and embrace FSO/SHR as the way to go... we need developers on that. |
| 00:12.51 | Fougner | mwester, what's your "title" in all this? |
| 00:12.57 | Fougner | you're not at OM |
| 00:13.23 | Fougner | right? =) |
| 00:13.28 | eolson | Dave, Of the three, I'll only use openmoko for my own phone. |
| 00:13.31 | Dave | We should hold sermons on weekends in #cdevel or something :p |
| 00:13.55 | mwester | Nope, not openmoko at all. My title is "cheif curmudgeon" |
| 00:14.02 | Dave | Mwester, the patron saint of openmoko realism? |
| 00:14.06 | Dave | heh |
| 00:14.31 | Fougner | hehe okay =) |
| 00:14.47 | badcloud | curmudgeon? |
| 00:15.05 | Fougner | yeah I think FSO (developed by team OM) and SHR (frontend developed by community) is a good mix |
| 00:15.17 | Fougner | badcloud, cheap person ;P |
| 00:15.21 | mwester | my spelling of it might be wrong |
| 00:15.22 | badcloud | ah |
| 00:15.26 | Fougner | badcloud, where you from? |
| 00:15.33 | Fougner | mwester, it was correct |
| 00:15.39 | badcloud | US/Israel |
| 00:15.45 | Fougner | ah |
| 00:15.49 | mwester | http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/curmudgeon |
| 00:15.52 | badcloud | what do you mean mix, though? |
| 00:15.54 | Fougner | I had to look it up ^^ |
| 00:15.58 | Dave | badcloud, spøkefugl :p |
| 00:16.05 | badcloud | mwester, first time I've heard that word before |
| 00:16.09 | mwester | "a crusty, il-tempered, and usually old man" <-- that's me. :D |
| 00:16.09 | Fougner | Dave din lilla gutt! |
| 00:16.26 | Dave | ;D;D |
| 00:16.27 | Fougner | mwester, you're not old? :O |
| 00:16.32 | mwester | I'm ancient. |
| 00:16.36 | Fougner | nooo |
| 00:16.41 | Fougner | you can't be |
| 00:16.46 | mwester | I participated in the committees that wrote the specs for dirt. |
| 00:16.52 | Fougner | lol |
| 00:16.55 | Fougner | I bet you're about 30 |
| 00:16.56 | badcloud | haha |
| 00:17.14 | Dave | crusty indeed. |
| 00:17.32 | mwester | 30? Nah, I wish I were that young again! |
| 00:17.36 | Dave | skittne nordmenn ¬_¬ |
| 00:17.53 | Fougner | dave, norrmän är roliga |
| 00:18.20 | *** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@blfd-4db1db0a.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 00:18.23 | Dave | bah! |
| 00:18.42 | Fougner | mwester, I guess you're some oldfashioned programmer then ;D |
| 00:18.47 | Fougner | Dave! :D |
| 00:18.49 | Fougner | ~_~ |
| 00:18.50 | apt | STOP DOING THAT! |
| 00:19.13 | Dave | du er en tøyse :p |
| 00:19.15 | *** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:19.16 | badcloud | ~_~ |
| 00:19.17 | apt | STOP DOING THAT! |
| 00:19.22 | Fougner | touse? |
| 00:19.25 | Fougner | toyse* |
| 00:19.28 | Fougner | tös+ |
| 00:19.28 | Fougner | ? |
| 00:19.31 | Fougner | flicka? |
| 00:19.36 | Dave | tosk :P |
| 00:19.40 | Fougner | ? |
| 00:19.44 | Fougner | fisk? :D |
| 00:19.45 | Fougner | fish? :D |
| 00:19.52 | Fougner | apt get me some jolt |
| 00:19.52 | apt | ACTION fetches me some jolt |
| 00:19.55 | mwester | Fougner: the first multi-user operating system kernel I hacked on was written entirely in FORTRAN and assembly. |
| 00:20.09 | Fougner | mwester, thattaboy |
| 00:20.17 | Dave | hot |
| 00:20.19 | Fougner | or how to spell it |
| 00:20.20 | mwester | I blame my poor programming practices on my youth. |
| 00:20.23 | Dave | mwester, were you ever a cobol fanboy? |
| 00:20.27 | Dave | heh |
| 00:20.31 | mwester | No, never liked writing essays. |
| 00:20.42 | mwester | z |
| 00:20.45 | Dave | :) |
| 00:20.53 | Dave | pascal? |
| 00:21.05 | Fougner | you guys talk about languages invented before my birth ^^ |
| 00:21.10 | Dave | ja |
| 00:21.21 | Fougner | old stuff ;D |
| 00:21.23 | mwester | I coded in pascal and cobol, but the big thing at the time in terms of structured languages was PL/1 |
| 00:21.25 | eolson | oh crap, going to feel old now |
| 00:21.32 | Dave | ooh la la |
| 00:21.41 | Fougner | GO ADA! |
| 00:21.42 | mwester | PL/1 Subset G |
| 00:21.44 | Dave | a friend of mine is still, to this day, an rpg guy |
| 00:21.56 | mwester | I confess to having done RPG as well. |
| 00:22.05 | Dave | he does hardcore low-level gpu programming |
| 00:22.11 | Dave | and other voodoo like that |
| 00:22.26 | Dave | I just stay on my side of ... things :) |
| 00:22.27 | mwester | GPU's with RPG? Can't be the same RPG then. :D |
| 00:22.44 | Dave | rpg3 |
| 00:23.02 | eolson | Dave, you're thinking mmorpg |
| 00:23.06 | Dave | no |
| 00:23.18 | eolson | . o O (just kidding) |
| 00:23.20 | *** join/#openmoko ike (n=ike@akademia.szluug.org) |
| 00:23.21 | Dave | :P |
| 00:23.35 | Dave | slaps eolson around a bit with a large steak |
| 00:23.56 | eolson | throws some old GPUs at Dave |
| 00:23.56 | mwester | I think we should port COBOL to the FR. Just for the pure shock factor. |
| 00:24.12 | Fougner | mwester, let's port Dave to the FR :D |
| 00:24.36 | Dave | hey, it can't be worse than some of the current stuff :P |
| 00:24.44 | Dave | Fougner, hey, that might work!... |
| 00:24.45 | *** join/#openmoko nio_ (n=nio@5571ef58.dsl.concepts.nl) |
| 00:24.49 | Dave | hey wait :P |
| 00:25.12 | Fougner | xD |
| 00:25.25 | Dave | pictures himself "pulling the pin" on a freerunner, and lobbing it over in Fougner's direction |
| 00:25.44 | eolson | someone has too many freerunners |
| 00:25.46 | Fougner | pulling the pin? |
| 00:26.11 | Dave | YES |
| 00:26.12 | mwester | Dave is being violent with FreeRunners again. |
| 00:26.29 | badcloud | you guys are being silleh |
| 00:26.32 | Fougner | . o O ( a swimmingpool filled up with Dave's FRs ) |
| 00:26.50 | Dave | and unstable electromagnetic pool full of black scariness |
| 00:29.22 | Fougner | uuh scaray |
| 00:29.24 | Fougner | scary* |
| 00:29.30 | Fougner | I'm tired |
| 00:29.37 | Fougner | I better go to sleep now zzz |
| 00:29.44 | badcloud | you know what this phone reminds me of? the black knight from holy grail |
| 00:29.45 | Fougner | shutdown -h now |
| 00:29.52 | Dave | heh |
| 00:29.52 | Fougner | badcloud, HAHA |
| 00:30.00 | Fougner | "NONE SHALL PASS" |
| 00:30.01 | badcloud | never admitting defeat |
| 00:30.09 | Fougner | hm |
| 00:30.13 | Dave | mv fougner /home/fougner/bed |
| 00:30.15 | badcloud | I'm inVINcible!!! |
| 00:30.31 | Fougner | that's goldeneye :o |
| 00:30.39 | Fougner | iPhone tries to walk over the bridhe |
| 00:30.41 | Dave | hahaha |
| 00:30.42 | Fougner | bridge* |
| 00:30.44 | badcloud | na, still Monty Python |
| 00:30.58 | Fougner | Boris =) |
| 00:31.20 | Fougner | rm -rf /dave |
| 00:31.33 | eolson | dave's in /home |
| 00:31.37 | Fougner | echo "Dave" >> /dev/freerunner |
| 00:31.39 | Dave | ;p |
| 00:31.43 | Dave | *crash* |
| 00:31.48 | badcloud | face it, if all efforts were pointed towards one opensource distro, the consumer population for this device would triple |
| 00:31.58 | badcloud | instead of branching out so much |
| 00:32.12 | eolson | badcloud, unless it was the wrong distro :/ |
| 00:32.21 | badcloud | right |
| 00:33.09 | eolson | badcloud, everything's going to be based on fso, so at least there'll be a stable base. |
| 00:33.20 | Fougner | yeah probably |
| 00:33.22 | badcloud | that's good |
| 00:33.36 | Fougner | openmoko is just developing the official OM2008.* and the FSO, right? |
| 00:33.43 | Fougner | the rest is community based |
| 00:34.07 | badcloud | I see |
| 00:34.09 | eolson | well, they're leading FSO (mickey), I think there are community developers too. |
| 00:34.23 | Fougner | ah |
| 00:34.41 | Fougner | well, better |
| 00:35.07 | Fougner | I think I can help in development |
| 00:35.13 | eolson | Fougner, and they've stopped developing OM2008.* and are focusing on paroli (on top of FSO) |
| 00:35.20 | Fougner | oh :o |
| 00:35.23 | Fougner | gosh |
| 00:35.43 | Fougner | it better be good then >:| |
| 00:36.20 | badcloud | does fso5 come with x builtin? |
| 00:36.36 | Fougner | fso is just a framework, or? |
| 00:36.44 | Fougner | or, "the base" |
| 00:36.57 | eolson | badcloud, probably depends on which package you download, but you can just opkg install zhone and it'll probably pull in X |
| 00:36.59 | Fougner | but there is a sample app ? |
| 00:37.09 | Fougner | yeaaaah |
| 00:37.11 | Fougner | zhone! |
| 00:37.13 | Fougner | Dave! |
| 00:37.18 | Fougner | ~_~ |
| 00:37.18 | apt | STOP DOING THAT! |
| 00:37.28 | Fougner | apt fetch Dave some coffee |
| 00:37.32 | Dave | :o |
| 00:37.39 | Fougner | apt get Dave some coffee |
| 00:37.40 | apt | ACTION fetches Dave some coffee |
| 00:38.07 | Dave | pours coffee on apt |
| 00:38.19 | Fougner | apt are you alive? |
| 00:38.20 | apt | The dead cannot live |
| 00:38.24 | Dave | :D |
| 00:38.33 | Fougner | apt I hate you :) |
| 00:38.33 | apt | You hate you :)? |
| 00:38.41 | Dave | haha |
| 00:38.47 | Fougner | apt stop it! |
| 00:38.48 | apt | ACTION leaps to his feet and stops it! |
| 00:38.56 | DocScrutinizer | fools ;D |
| 00:38.57 | Dave | apt, what time is it? |
| 00:38.59 | apt | Dave: what are you talking about? |
| 00:39.00 | eolson | Fougner, yes, it seems like a framework or something, I'm not expert, so I'll refer you: |
| 00:39.00 | eolson | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO |
| 00:39.00 | eolson | http://www.freesmartphone.org |
| 00:39.05 | Dave | apt, hammer time! |
| 00:39.26 | Fougner | apt, zombie killing mode! |
| 00:39.27 | apt | ACTION summons an army of the undead to eat killing mode! |
| 00:39.41 | eolson | apt help us |
| 00:39.48 | Fougner | apt help U.S |
| 00:40.12 | Fougner | apt help eolson |
| 00:40.25 | Fougner | apt help |
| 00:41.33 | Fougner | apt uptime |
| 00:42.25 | Fougner | apt cpuinfo |
| 00:42.25 | Dave | aptime? |
| 00:42.26 | Dave | :D |
| 00:42.40 | Fougner | apt cpustats |
| 00:42.40 | apt | Total CPU usage: 10184.1 s ... Total used: 2.9 % (parent/child ratio: 100.0 %) |
| 00:42.49 | *** join/#openmoko phosphoricx (n=fmaker@moobilenet-122-188.ucdavis.edu) |
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| 00:42.54 | Fougner | I think I want apt as my pet :D |
| 00:43.58 | eolson | apt what are you? |
| 00:43.59 | apt | I am a blootbot. For more info see <blootbot> |
| 00:44.07 | Fougner | blootbot |
| 00:44.14 | Fougner | apt is stupid :D |
| 00:44.21 | eolson | apt what is apt |
| 00:44.22 | apt | well, pt is a Manuel |
| 00:44.31 | DocScrutinizer | apt: apt |
| 00:44.32 | apt | extra, extra, read all about it, apt is apt, or kinky. A Pretty_Cool Tool. APT package handling utility -- command-line interface |
| 00:44.46 | Fougner | apt get remove apt |
| 00:44.47 | apt | ACTION fetches remove apt |
| 00:44.56 | Fougner | apt-get remove apt |
| 00:45.00 | Fougner | hmm |
| 00:45.07 | Fougner | does someone here know about a welldeveloped bot ? |
| 00:45.15 | Fougner | more powerful than apt? :P |
| 00:45.36 | eolson | apt who is more powerful than you? |
| 00:45.38 | apt | eolson: what are you talking about? |
| 00:45.52 | DocScrutinizer | Fougner: doesn't apt prepare coffee for you ? XD |
| 00:46.09 | eolson | apt what are you talking about? |
| 00:46.38 | Fougner | DocScrutinizer, yeah he does :D |
| 00:49.48 | badcloud | doesn't seem like wifi works in fso5 |
| 00:50.45 | *** join/#openmoko uhsf (n=uhsf@modemcable016.172-57-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 00:53.05 | DocScrutinizer | apt: spank dave |
| 00:53.06 | apt | ACTION bends dave over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on dave's pasty white buttocks. |
| 00:54.06 | DocScrutinizer | hmmpf, bzzbot and apt same sorta morons |
| 00:54.44 | DocScrutinizer | :D |
| 00:56.46 | badcloud | hey, doc |
| 00:56.59 | badcloud | you know how to turn the wifi radio on in fso? |
| 01:00.58 | eolson | http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td2333773|a2333773 |
| 01:01.35 | eolson | dang, that didn't work |
| 01:01.56 | eolson | http://n2.nabble.com/-FSO-milestone-5--No-wifi---td2333773ef1958.html#a2333773 |
| 01:01.58 | *** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (n=AntonTak@poolofdespair.net) |
| 01:02.10 | eolson | badcloud, that's wifi info. |
| 01:02.22 | eolson | cya, gotta go |
| 01:02.46 | Dave | :p |
| 01:02.51 | Dave | oh shit |
| 01:03.00 | Dave | What or WHO is doing things to my ass!? |
| 01:04.50 | badcloud | thanks, eolson |
| 01:05.00 | badcloud | already was there |
| 01:05.03 | badcloud | Dave?????? |
| 01:05.51 | badcloud | should I be worried? |
| 01:07.03 | Fougner | Dave? |
| 01:07.09 | Dave | o_O |
| 01:07.12 | Dave | What????? |
| 01:07.14 | Fougner | what about your ass? |
| 01:07.19 | Dave | Wtf are you people doing!? |
| 01:08.44 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.78.178.63) |
| 01:08.48 | Fougner | Haha |
| 01:08.50 | Fougner | goodnight dave |
| 01:08.54 | Fougner | gotta sleep now ;P |
| 01:09.30 | Dave | :D |
| 01:09.32 | Dave | Finally |
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| 01:19.26 | Dave | javascript-- |
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| 04:39.10 | CIA-49 | openmoko: 03werner * r4940 10/developers/werner/gta03/cam/patches/ (4 files): Add CAMIF platform device and use it on GTA03. We now crash one clock later ;-) |
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| 04:48.12 | Dave | eheh |
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| 06:19.10 | jonwil | Are there any plans for a JAVA VM on OpenMoko? |
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| 06:20.32 | jonwil | Or is it a case of "if you want one, write one"? :P |
| 06:23.03 | mwester | Android runs on it - clearly it has a VM. |
| 06:23.12 | mwester | There are others as well. |
| 06:23.39 | mwester | But I don't do java, so I can't do anything but point you to the wiki and maling list for previous discussions |
| 06:25.43 | jonwil | oh ok |
| 06:26.05 | jonwil | I did some googling and it seems like there is Android and its VM and there are some efforts towards a native OM VM |
| 06:26.13 | jonwil | and that the native VM efforts havent gone that far |
| 06:26.20 | jonwil | mostly because of something called Jazelle whatever that is |
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| 06:27.12 | jonwil | oh wait I remember now, the issue is that |
| 06:27.34 | jonwil | that ARM CPUs (including IIRC the one in the OM phones) have these Jazelle extentions to make JAVA run faster |
| 06:27.43 | jonwil | but that they are undocumented and proprietary |
| 06:27.49 | jonwil | hence no support for them in free VMs |
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| 06:39.35 | *** topic/#openmoko is Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | Freerunner is in stock in some resellers. | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Quickstart | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems | Keyboard numbers for 2008.8 : slide finger up on the keyboard |
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| 06:47.33 | TurTle_ | does Tmobile have the Openmoto? |
| 06:48.44 | TurTle_ | hry? |
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| 06:55.59 | jonwil | you cant get any mopenmoko phone from any carriers AFAIK |
| 07:00.30 | Wonka | TGIF |
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| 07:25.16 | harrytt | hi~ |
| 07:26.18 | harrytt | any body there? |
| 07:26.19 | playya | hi |
| 07:27.44 | harrytt | is people changing opinions about openmoko project here? |
| 07:28.55 | lindi- | harrytt: yep |
| 07:30.07 | harrytt | ok.. |
| 07:31.09 | harrytt | may I post a link here, I need people help me to finish a survey.... |
| 07:32.14 | PaulFertser_ | mickey|zzZZzz: In case it's still interesting to you, EU version of Dream was rooted by xda guys, instructions provided. |
| 07:35.15 | harrytt | or I just post...... |
| 07:36.02 | PaulFertser_ | harrytt: are you going to post the results? |
| 07:36.30 | PaulFertser_ | harrytt: especially it'd be interesting to see the results for devs separated from end-users and stuff like that. |
| 07:36.55 | harrytt | when I finish it, of course I will post the result... |
| 07:37.32 | harrytt | currently I need collect feedback as much as possible,, |
| 07:40.00 | PaulFertser_ | harrytt: it's a bit too early for Europe, so you can try to motivate more people a bit later. And please, show the meaningful results, i'd like to know if there are many devs who feel very dissatisfied with OM-the-company but like the community. |
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| 07:40.53 | harrytt | thanks |
| 07:41.51 | PaulFertser_ | harrytt: are you an OM employee? |
| 07:42.10 | harrytt | I left there few months ago... |
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| 07:43.14 | harrytt | I worked for OM sales from initial stage |
| 07:43.51 | PaulFertser_ | harrytt: OM had a great potential but with all the epic screw-ups i can hardly see any future for them... I hope i'm wrong though and just being overly-pessimistic. |
| 07:45.38 | harrytt | things is changing everyday... |
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| 07:47.30 | harrytt | I still hope they can drive the company as well as possible |
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| 07:50.54 | raster | harrytt: harry? |
| 07:51.01 | raster | harrytt: you left? |
| 07:51.08 | harrytt | hey..man |
| 07:51.21 | harrytt | how are you doing? |
| 07:51.24 | raster | hey man |
| 07:51.33 | raster | not bad. and you? |
| 07:51.36 | harrytt | how about your Chinese? |
| 07:51.41 | raster | what got you moving? |
| 07:51.54 | raster | bu hao. bu hao! |
| 07:52.18 | raster | (chongwen) |
| 07:52.18 | harrytt | haha~~cool |
| 07:52.31 | raster | i've had to learn some korean lately... so i'm all confused again |
| 07:52.37 | raster | why did you leave? |
| 07:52.41 | harrytt | come on give me hand..I need people fill in my survey... |
| 07:52.48 | raster | or you cant/dont want to talk about it (in public)? |
| 07:53.01 | raster | what survey where? |
| 07:53.12 | harrytt | We talk in person...OK? |
| 07:53.17 | harrytt | http://www.t0ny.net/harrytsai/index.php?sid=45769&lang=en |
| 07:53.21 | raster | mei wen ti :) |
| 07:53.31 | harrytt | so cool.... |
| 07:53.56 | harrytt | this survey is for my Master thesis... |
| 07:54.15 | raster | hmm |
| 07:54.23 | raster | this looks just like a survey some swiss guys sent out :) |
| 07:54.28 | raster | or similar! |
| 07:55.12 | harrytt | a Taiwanese guy.... |
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| 07:57.26 | harrytt | Raster...where are you now? |
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| 07:58.50 | harrytt | wa da si wa Harry san.... |
| 08:00.16 | raster | sydney :) |
| 08:00.53 | raster | hahahaha |
| 08:01.03 | raster | watahsi wa Harry-san |
| 08:01.36 | harrytt | anyway..you undersatood the mean |
| 08:02.47 | harrytt | A Li Ga do... Raster-san |
| 08:03.35 | raster | hehehehehe |
| 08:03.36 | raster | :) |
| 08:03.40 | raster | arigatou! |
| 08:03.41 | raster | :) |
| 08:04.51 | harrytt | maybe I need post the link every hour....ask people give me a hand |
| 08:05.12 | PaulFertser_ | Ok, to root EU HTC Dream only 20 EUR is needed to buy QMAT. Looks like it's still much cheaper than buying a dev version. But after that you won't be able to buy apps from android market. What a stupid system, all this android shit sucks! :) |
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| 08:07.16 | harrytt | I may find many kindly developers to give me a hand ... :) |
| 08:07.26 | raster | hahahaha |
| 08:08.49 | harrytt | http://www.t0ny.net/harrytsai/index.php?sid=45769&lang=en Give me a hand pls!!!! |
| 08:09.51 | CM_work | harrytt: Filled it in :) |
| 08:10.11 | harrytt | thank very much..... |
| 08:16.17 | raster | harrytt: ok- survey filled :) |
| 08:16.35 | raster | just rememebr to remind people and they will |
| 08:16.55 | harrytt | arigatou!! |
| 08:17.11 | raster | xie xie |
| 08:17.33 | PaulFertser_ | And for those who say it's not Google's fault, and rather HTC's/O2/whatever, i say that it is Google's fault! If they were against tivoization, they'd released under GPLv3 or smth like that. They could prevent tivoization but apparently they didn't want to, quite the opposite, they wanted to make android more appealing to phone vendors to sell more crap on android market. So, Google is guilty, IMHO! |
| 08:18.50 | raster | PaulFertser_: google made as much of the os non-gpl to make it easy to close off if vendors want to |
| 08:19.12 | raster | as well as thats just how that group in google works |
| 08:19.16 | raster | they come from the mobile world |
| 08:19.30 | raster | so to them a gpl glibc thats big and full of features is "Bloat' |
| 08:20.08 | raster | (even tho even my tiny treo640 with 32m ram is more powerful than my pc i originally wrote enligthenment on whne i started with linux - same ram and a faster cpu than the p120 i had) |
| 08:20.21 | raster | so the idea of "bloat" is i think a little far fetched for thigns like that |
| 08:20.32 | raster | but i agree - i dont think android is really open |
| 08:20.37 | raster | even tho they wave the open flag |
| 08:20.46 | raster | and say they are open |
| 08:20.55 | raster | they dont even ship "linux' as in a linux system |
| 08:20.58 | raster | only a linux kernel |
| 08:21.03 | raster | the rest of userspace != linux |
| 08:21.10 | raster | its somethingelse kind-of linux-like |
| 08:21.20 | PaulFertser_ | raster: i know. I'm just trying to prove to other people that android is not about "being free" and even not about "being open" (open and appealing only for "big" phone vendors). And that's the reason why i think that android doesn't belong to the openmoko community world. |
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| 08:22.41 | harrytt | even google wants open everything..the manufactures is impossible to open it |
| 08:23.20 | PaulFertser_ | harrytt: google doesn't, that's the main problem |
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| 08:24.44 | laen | Google doesn't want to open, how did you come up with that? :P |
| 08:24.47 | laen | Google doesn't even commit their kernel patches and work back to the community, they keep it all secret. |
| 08:25.10 | laen | Google is all about datamining, getting to know as much about you as they can. |
| 08:25.22 | laen | Which is what their browser does: send everything you go to and type, to Google. |
| 08:25.45 | PaulFertser_ | To be able to sell you more consumerist shit. |
| 08:26.04 | laen | Well, the datamining and crosslinking of the data is what made 'em succesfull. |
| 08:26.26 | max_posedon | Hm.. actually openmoko sometimes have same problem, see qemu. |
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| 08:27.38 | CM_work | PaulFertser_: Read a long article about Android on arstechnica yesterday. It said that Google blamed the lack of openness on pressure to release a phone as fast as possible, but that they try to open up things more now |
| 08:27.46 | CM_work | Not so sure I believe that.. |
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| 08:28.01 | laen | Marketingtalk :) |
| 08:28.10 | raster | PaulFertser_: i know. if andorid was about open and free - it would share a lot more with standard "linux" distros |
| 08:28.13 | raster | ie use normal glibc |
| 08:28.24 | raster | normal busybox, tools, libs, x11, etc. |
| 08:28.35 | CM_work | Yeah, instead of rewriting stuff under the Apache license |
| 08:29.09 | PaulFertser_ | raster: and instead they're telling lies about how any POSIX-compliant environment is so unsuitable even for modern "constrained" devices and other nonsense like that. |
| 08:29.26 | PaulFertser_ | CM_work: i don't buy that too, so we agree here :) |
| 08:29.41 | PaulFertser_ | Now to find an android fan to bash together :) |
| 08:29.48 | CM_work | Hehe |
| 08:29.50 | harrytt | Pls give Harry a hand fill this survey, http://www.t0ny.net/harrytsai/index.php?sid=45769&lang=en |
| 08:29.51 | laen | :P |
| 08:30.00 | raster | PaulFertser_: correct. that is total bs. |
| 08:30.06 | raster | it is an attempt to justify it |
| 08:30.16 | raster | imoh andorid is a very divisive force in the open world |
| 08:30.21 | raster | they are playnig the open trumpet |
| 08:30.24 | raster | waving the flags |
| 08:30.31 | raster | trying to attract all the oss devs |
| 08:30.38 | raster | but u have to specially port to andorid |
| 08:30.49 | CM_work | Android IS more open than the iPhone, but it's still very very far from truly being open |
| 08:30.53 | raster | if it were linux the only thing u'd care about is if it compiles for arm |
| 08:31.03 | raster | and if your library dependencies are there (and compile) |
| 08:31.08 | harrytt | is anybody going to kick me out? hehe.... |
| 08:31.13 | raster | CM_work: oh absolutely. more open indeed |
| 08:31.17 | CM_work | thinks the Android SDK looks shiny though |
| 08:31.22 | raster | but its not the open i think the openmoko community wanted |
| 08:31.26 | raster | not just open in terms of code |
| 08:31.27 | CM_work | No, not at all |
| 08:31.42 | raster | but open in terms of "its the same open and same os i already develop for and use on my desktop" |
| 08:32.12 | raster | excuses like "its all too fast to work" are stupid |
| 08:32.16 | raster | err too fat to work |
| 08:32.22 | raster | openembedded works on my treo650 |
| 08:32.26 | raster | with a mere 32m ram |
| 08:32.30 | raster | boots to x and e |
| 08:32.32 | raster | and i can run apps |
| 08:32.40 | raster | admittedly itsa pushing it |
| 08:32.43 | raster | but it works |
| 08:32.54 | raster | prety well too |
| 08:33.09 | raster | if it were not for the python frameworkd - it'd be able to make calls etc. etc. |
| 08:33.16 | CM_work | Hehe |
| 08:33.38 | raster | it could possibly be leaned down too |
| 08:33.42 | raster | a bit |
| 08:33.49 | CM_work | FSO Milestone 5 works really well on my GTA01. First one where Calling, Answering, suspend and sms has worked right away |
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| 08:34.06 | raster | but i dont buy the "glibc etc. etc. (posix whatever) is too big" argument as its wrong - and proven wrong. |
| 08:34.30 | raster | CM_work: boot your gta02 with mem=32 with the kernel and see how well it works |
| 08:34.30 | raster | :) |
| 08:34.40 | CM_work | Hehe, true |
| 08:34.55 | CM_work | How big is glibc? ulibc? |
| 08:36.32 | max_posedon | glibc about 1.3M |
| 08:36.42 | raster | thats the file |
| 08:36.48 | raster | njot all of it is paged in and used at runtime |
| 08:37.07 | raster | it also compresses and provides a lot of utils and things that in other cases exist in other libs outside of libc |
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| 08:47.48 | CM_work | Ok, thanks |
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| 08:52.53 | harrytt | Say Thank You to those people who filled my survey...... :) |
| 08:53.11 | harrytt | http://www.t0ny.net/harrytsai/index.php?sid=45769&lang=en |
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| 09:06.59 | CIA-49 | openmoko: 03werner * r4941 10/developers/werner/gta03/cam/patches/ (5 files): |
| 09:06.59 | CIA-49 | openmoko: The clocks seems to be fine now. The driver doesn't ask for a sensible |
| 09:06.59 | CIA-49 | openmoko: frequency (266 MHz instead of 44 MHz), but this is probably a different |
| 09:06.59 | CIA-49 | openmoko: issue. In any case, it gets what it asks for. |
| 09:08.22 | *** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=chatzill@d51A515D7.access.telenet.be) |
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| 09:10.09 | CM_work | harrytt: Maybe there's some people in #openmoko-cdevel that's not in here? Ask there too ;) |
| 09:12.36 | harrytt | OK |
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| 09:31.43 | DocScrutinizer | harrytt: OM finally does some basic marketing evaluation? Great! :-) |
| 09:32.08 | harrytt | hehe...you mean this survey? or |
| 09:32.14 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 09:32.33 | harrytt | actually..this is my thesis survey.... |
| 09:32.46 | DocScrutinizer | keep in mind you won't see many non-customers though |
| 09:33.01 | DocScrutinizer | ahh, thesis. I thought it's for Sean ;-) |
| 09:33.33 | harrytt | I left OM job few months ago...the survey is for me...maybe I can talk to Sean about the result... |
| 09:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | maybe our management would be interested in the results nevertheless |
| 09:33.54 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 09:34.26 | harrytt | need more people help to finish it ... |
| 09:34.35 | DocScrutinizer | well cya. I'm out for breakfast now |
| 09:35.12 | harrytt | don't forget it.... |
| 09:35.15 | DocScrutinizer | (help) me isn't a representative person to fill it ;D |
| 09:35.57 | *** join/#openmoko kraut` (n=kraut@e181126148.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:36.07 | DocScrutinizer | I will ask some of my friends though |
| 09:36.18 | harrytt | thanks |
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| 09:36.27 | DocScrutinizer | np :) |
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| 09:46.17 | harrytt | http://www.t0ny.net/harrytsai/index.php?sid=45769&lang=en |
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| 09:46.55 | harrytt | Need your support to finish this survey... |
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| 10:08.32 | rhkfin | Could someone w. 2008.12 try to install these failing opkg.org repository packages: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-February/042811.html |
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| 11:20.25 | Pietrao | hi |
| 11:20.43 | Pietrao | i've got some problem with bluetooth |
| 11:21.11 | Fougner | me too =) |
| 11:21.19 | Fougner | in fact, we all got some problems with bt =( |
| 11:21.26 | Pietrao | can someone post his /etc/default/bluetooth? |
| 11:21.34 | Fougner | what distro? |
| 11:21.37 | Pietrao | om |
| 11:21.44 | Fougner | 2008.9/12 ? |
| 11:21.54 | Pietrao | 2008.12 |
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| 11:22.06 | tomboy64 | i've got no problem with bluetooth |
| 11:22.12 | tomboy64 | i just don't use it :-D |
| 11:22.16 | Pietrao | :D |
| 11:22.26 | Pietrao | I can't find the device |
| 11:22.44 | Pietrao | root@om-gta02:~# hcitool dev |
| 11:22.46 | Pietrao | Devices: |
| 11:22.50 | Fougner | HID2HCI_ENABLE=true |
| 11:22.59 | Fougner | that's my default bluetooth |
| 11:23.06 | Pietrao | only that? |
| 11:23.14 | Fougner | yup, two comments too |
| 11:23.30 | Fougner | # Run hid2hci (allowed values are "true" and "false") |
| 11:23.56 | Pietrao | and in your /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 11:24.22 | Pietrao | iface bnep0 inet dhcp? |
| 11:25.23 | Fougner | # Bluetooth networking |
| 11:25.23 | Fougner | iface bnep0 inet dhcp |
| 11:25.41 | Pietrao | mm |
| 11:25.44 | Pietrao | tnx |
| 11:25.47 | Fougner | np |
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| 11:26.09 | *** part/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@61.170.161.139) |
| 11:26.59 | Pietrao | and if you do hciconfig |
| 11:27.05 | Pietrao | or hcitool dev? |
| 11:34.32 | Serdar | which os is now the workable one for freerunner, which does work with gsm, gps and wlan that's all I need now |
| 11:34.47 | Serdar | err wait alarm would be nice too |
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| 11:40.50 | Pietrao | someone with working bluetooth? |
| 11:42.00 | rhkfin | I've heard that the bluez is broken for 2008.12 and that's why remoko doesn't work with it.. |
| 11:42.34 | rhkfin | see http://code.google.com/p/remoko/issues/detail?id=5#c8 and https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2218 |
| 11:42.54 | Serdar | I am useing qtextended now, but I guess fso or shr are more lookable and supportable. |
| 11:44.40 | Pietrao | but i can't see the device |
| 11:44.52 | Pietrao | and i can't turn it up |
| 11:45.20 | Serdar | Pietrao, which os are you useing? |
| 11:45.28 | Pietrao | om2008.12 |
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| 11:45.56 | Serdar | hmmI was told not to use om2008.12 |
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| 11:47.56 | Pietrao | does bluez work properly on shr? |
| 11:48.48 | Serdar | no idea, try it out. |
| 11:48.55 | Pietrao | ok |
| 11:48.58 | Pietrao | i've to go |
| 11:48.59 | Pietrao | bye |
| 11:49.01 | *** part/#openmoko Pietrao (n=pietro@151.57.199.77) |
| 11:49.29 | Serdar | did I say something wrong? |
| 11:52.39 | *** join/#openmoko badcloud (n=raanan@ti400720a342-1433.bb.online.no) |
| 11:52.41 | badcloud | any way to get the menu bar back in midori? |
| 11:53.05 | badcloud | or the location bar, for that matter |
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| 12:41.23 | CIA-49 | openmoko: 03werner * r4942 10/developers/werner/gta03/cam/patches/ (6 files): |
| 12:41.23 | CIA-49 | openmoko: - hacked I2C registration to "work" (driver needs updating for new API) |
| 12:41.23 | CIA-49 | openmoko: - frequency is still x10 too high. can tweak this from user space. |
| 12:41.23 | CIA-49 | openmoko: - work around minor numbers not being assigned the way the driver expects |
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| 13:21.43 | *** join/#openmoko panicking (n=Michael@77.224.194.88) |
| 13:21.48 | panicking | hi all |
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| 13:31.53 | badcloud | hey, ho, don't go |
| 13:32.45 | rooly | is that a cheer or an insult |
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| 13:50.48 | badcloud | that was just to say hi |
| 13:51.10 | badcloud | no offence intenended |
| 13:51.16 | badcloud | *intended |
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| 13:53.42 | rooly | none taken anyhow |
| 13:53.59 | rooly | goes play a game |
| 13:54.10 | badcloud | ~_~ |
| 13:54.10 | apt | STOP DOING THAT! |
| 13:54.21 | rooly | nvm actually |
| 13:54.25 | rooly | still waiting on the download |
| 13:54.33 | rooly | 89 MB's takes a little while apparently |
| 13:54.36 | badcloud | apt: go play with yourself |
| 13:54.38 | rooly | i'm not used to not-cable |
| 13:54.50 | badcloud | apt, make me some coffee |
| 13:54.51 | apt | ACTION brews a nice hot cup of coffee for me some |
| 13:55.10 | badcloud | we're not paying you by the hour, you know |
| 13:55.36 | badcloud | what are you downloading, rooly? |
| 13:55.59 | rooly | darkspace |
| 13:56.08 | badcloud | haven't heard of it |
| 13:56.14 | badcloud | what is it? |
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| 13:56.22 | rooly | hmm... |
| 13:56.30 | rooly | ever played star trek armada? |
| 13:56.35 | badcloud | nope |
| 13:56.40 | badcloud | action/rpg? |
| 13:56.41 | rooly | homeworld? |
| 13:56.46 | badcloud | no |
| 13:56.51 | rooly | hegemonia |
| 13:57.08 | rooly | ...okay then |
| 13:57.08 | badcloud | also no |
| 13:57.17 | rooly | eve |
| 13:57.25 | badcloud | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:57.33 | rooly | oic |
| 13:57.37 | rooly | so you're way behind |
| 13:57.45 | badcloud | pretty much |
| 13:58.03 | badcloud | though I still enjoy the occasionally mario/zelda |
| 13:58.07 | badcloud | whathaveyou |
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| 13:59.18 | rooly1 | woop, gots work to do |
| 14:00.23 | badcloud | me too |
| 14:00.24 | badcloud | later |
| 14:00.28 | gromgull | is there some fix for the missing gtk+fastscaling pacakge for shr or fso? |
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