| 00:00.09 | orzo | start with something that you'll be motivated to finish |
| 00:00.25 | orzo | if you are a die hard nes fan, why not |
| 00:01.19 | badcloud | oh, shit (losing all my body fluids through my saliva glands) |
| 00:01.40 | badcloud | I might do that next vacation I take |
| 00:01.46 | badcloud | someone recommended I start with python |
| 00:01.51 | orzo | no |
| 00:01.55 | orzo | not for the emulator |
| 00:02.04 | orzo | i would recommend python ordinarily |
| 00:02.06 | orzo | but not for you |
| 00:03.11 | badcloud | hmmm |
| 00:03.11 | orzo | you should learn c and study teh emulator code until you see how it works |
| 00:03.15 | badcloud | gotcha |
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| 00:05.04 | orzo | there's two ways to go with tuxnes, you can learn ARM assembly and right a translation table similar to what they've done with x86, or you can adapt the code more generally and have it use the LLVM library to do JIT compiling on any platform supported by that library. |
| 00:05.11 | orzo | s/right/write/ |
| 00:06.34 | orzo | LLVM requires you learn some c++ |
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| 00:10.58 | badcloud | well, step by step |
| 00:11.03 | badcloud | first step, sleep |
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| 02:39.20 | Dave | :o |
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| 03:28.53 | projektdotnet | if writing python apps for FSO/SHR what is the best gui toolkit to use? |
| 03:31.37 | cjb | gtk |
| 03:32.00 | projektdotnet | thx |
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| 04:20.51 | slaxxin | since things are changing to fso/shr why doesnt opkg reflect that change? |
| 04:21.46 | AntonTakk | slaxxin: i was under the impression that the "official" route was fso/paroli |
| 04:22.04 | slaxxin | all the packages should work with she atleast as well as they work in 2008.12 |
| 04:22.17 | slaxxin | *shr |
| 04:22.33 | slaxxin | ok |
| 04:22.42 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
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| 04:27.02 | slaxxin | is fso 5.5 released? |
| 04:27.16 | slaxxin | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates/February_20,_2009 |
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| 04:38.30 | rooly | please god let this connection hold |
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| 04:54.46 | slaxxin | is it 2008.12? |
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| 04:56.52 | joerg_42 | rooly: use direct-line laser transmission! if connection breaks down simply increase power py factor 100 until it works again ;D |
| 05:00.51 | joerg_42 | rooly: don't forget the special goggles or you'll eventually burn a dark spot into your macula, like I did |
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| 07:23.50 | methril | morning |
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| 08:37.19 | panicking | Hi all |
| 08:37.29 | panicking | I would like to build a reference filesystem |
| 08:37.38 | panicking | for the imx31 using fso-distribuition |
| 08:37.46 | panicking | i think that is teorically possible |
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| 08:43.42 | methril | it's |
| 08:45.33 | panicking | I have a develop board with arm11 and I'm want to write a demo |
| 08:45.49 | panicking | maybe add this architecture to the fso-smartphone projects |
| 08:45.52 | panicking | is a good idea |
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| 10:04.24 | PaulFertser_ | Can anybody explain me how on earth am i supposed to reply to community mailing list properly if it has Reply-To set incorrectly? |
| 10:06.01 | rhkfin | How does it have it set? |
| 10:06.03 | henk | PaulFertser_: looks alright over here... |
| 10:06.30 | rhkfin | try reply to all? |
| 10:06.37 | PaulFertser_ | rhkfin, henk It has Reply-To set to the mailing list itself which obviously doesn't make sense. |
| 10:07.05 | henk | PaulFertser_: why not? |
| 10:07.54 | rhkfin | henk: maybe because http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html |
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| 10:10.10 | rhkfin | -> PaulFertser_ start a discussion & flamewar on the list to try to get it changed. |
| 10:10.25 | henk | hm i've read that... some time ago. thanks |
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| 10:21.50 | PaulFert1er | henk: sorry guys, i was disconnected and lost all your replys about Reply-To header. |
| 10:23.43 | rhkfin | PaulFertser_: http://pastebin.com/d421c91a0 |
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| 10:25.19 | PaulFert1er | rhkfin: so basically you agree that what community list does is stupid? |
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| 10:27.07 | rhkfin | PaulFert1er: I guess so but changing it might cause many lost list mails (only the original author receives it). |
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| 10:27.52 | PaulFert1er | rhkfin: let it be like that then, less stupid traffic on list, i see only benefits |
| 10:28.06 | rhkfin | :) |
| 10:29.48 | PaulFert1er | rhkfin: but imagine another case: someone not subscribed writes to the list. I reply to him but because of Reply-To header the reply goes only to the list obviously, and he loses the reply. |
| 10:30.35 | rhkfin | PaulFert1er: someone not subscribed can't post, I guess..? |
| 10:31.06 | PaulFert1er_ | rhkfin: no, he can, but his message has to pass moderator approval. |
| 10:31.31 | rhkfin | ok |
| 10:31.42 | rhkfin | (you don't have to convince me but the Rest :) |
| 10:32.10 | PaulFertser | I'll be told to re-read the archives where this matter was already discussed :( |
| 10:32.13 | PaulFertser | Screw them |
| 10:32.47 | panicking | Hi all |
| 10:33.02 | panicking | PaulFertser: Hi |
| 10:33.13 | rhkfin | PaulFertser: heh :) |
| 10:33.25 | PaulFertser | panicking: Hi :) how's it going. passed your tough deadlines? |
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| 10:33.49 | rhkfin | (besides posting something to a list adn expecting to get an answer without subscribing sounds ~weird to me) |
| 10:33.59 | panicking | I put the gprs on android but ask to test it because I don't know how to test :D |
| 10:34.09 | PaulFertser | rhkfin: it's not actually, because people usually don't drop CC's |
| 10:34.09 | panicking | in the middle I start a new project with the mx31 |
| 10:35.25 | PaulFertser | panicking: Yeah, read about your imx31 project. What does the hardware have except the CPU? |
| 10:35.56 | PaulFertser | rhkfin: so you will not only get all the replys to your message but actually the whole thread if CC's are preserved. |
| 10:37.14 | panicking | All |
| 10:37.18 | panicking | gps, display |
| 10:37.21 | panicking | camera |
| 10:37.26 | panicking | keyboard |
| 10:37.33 | panicking | usb network |
| 10:37.54 | panicking | I'm not sure if it has a gsm too |
| 10:38.23 | rhkfin | PaulFertser: true |
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| 10:40.21 | PaulFertser | panicking: what use-cases are you targeting? |
| 10:40.48 | panicking | I'm starting to buld the fso-smartphone image |
| 10:40.53 | panicking | for imx31 |
| 10:41.59 | PaulFertser | panicking: be sure to include X.org fbdev server, i hope your device doesn't have a glamo :) |
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| 10:42.31 | panicking | yes ofcourse the device daes'nt have glamo |
| 10:43.37 | PaulFertser | panicking: and i don't quite see how fso is useful without the gsm. If only for GPS management... |
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| 10:45.34 | panicking | http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Getting_Started |
| 10:45.47 | PaulFertser | panicking: does it have a decent vendor support? Video drivers, mpeg4, etc? |
| 10:46.15 | panicking | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_FSO#Building_manually |
| 10:46.31 | panicking | Yes it is the frescale develop board |
| 10:47.44 | PaulFertser | Do they provide an X.org driver? |
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| 10:48.23 | PaulFertser | I wonder how they integrate the other parts for "fancy multimedia". |
| 10:48.28 | panicking | Well, I have received this board yesterday |
| 10:48.48 | panicking | so I start today |
| 10:48.53 | panicking | download the freescael kernel |
| 10:49.03 | panicking | and take a look over the net to find some information |
| 10:49.32 | panicking | I think that it start with qt-embedded over framebuffer |
| 10:49.39 | bjdooks | your first mistake was trusting a chip vendor to do something useful |
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| 11:06.50 | CIA-49 | openmoko: 03werner * r4926 10/developers/werner/gsm/ (. moko11/ moko11/RELNOTES): Release notes for moko11. (Unfinished - let's see if more issues turn up.) |
| 11:06.58 | jonwil | Anyone here any good with ARM assembly? |
| 11:07.07 | lindi- | jonwil: not good but have used |
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| 11:07.19 | Wonka | mmh... moko11 is not ready yet? |
| 11:07.31 | lindi- | Wonka: release notes are not |
| 11:07.38 | Wonka | ah :) |
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| 11:08.07 | jonwil | I am tryingh to reverse engineer some ARM binaries and I cant make head nor tail of it (and this is someone who can code x86 no problems :P |
| 11:08.23 | lindi- | jonwil: are you in a place where that is supposedly legal? |
| 11:08.40 | bjdooks | jonwil: yes |
| 11:09.16 | PaulFertser | lindi-: is there a place where reversing anything for private purposes is illegal? |
| 11:09.32 | lindi- | PaulFertser: but it's not private anymore if we discuss it over internet? ;) |
| 11:09.42 | shellevil | AIUI in the EU, it's legal to reverse engineer for compatibility purposes |
| 11:10.13 | PaulFertser | lindi-: no, it's still private until he gives the results to someone, i guess. |
| 11:10.18 | jonwil | In this case I am reverse engineering the notepad binary of motorola phone to find out how it stores the notes |
| 11:10.25 | jonwil | which counts as compatibility |
| 11:10.38 | shellevil | no strace? |
| 11:10.43 | lindi- | jonwil: looking only at data files is not enough? |
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| 11:12.06 | jonwil | no, file is binary of some kind |
| 11:12.12 | jonwil | its possibly some special format database |
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| 11:12.44 | lindi- | i haven't yet converted my nokia communicator 9110 notes :) |
| 11:12.53 | lindi- | they seem to be mostly plain text with some extra formatting |
| 11:13.11 | lindi- | jonwil: what's the problem you have with it? |
| 11:13.36 | jonwil | There seems to be library called libexzdb which notepad app talks to |
| 11:13.48 | jonwil | The bit thats giving me trouble is subroutine calls |
| 11:13.59 | jonwil | as in, I cant tell which subroutine is being called |
| 11:14.22 | lindi- | jonwil: what OS does it run on? |
| 11:14.29 | jonwil | linux |
| 11:14.34 | jonwil | eabi |
| 11:15.01 | lindi- | jonwil: ah |
| 11:15.03 | jonwil | It seems as though the code has been compiled with some switch for position independant code |
| 11:15.08 | lindi- | jonwil: can i get the binary somehow? |
| 11:15.24 | lindi- | jonwil: aren't libraries always PIC? |
| 11:15.31 | jonwil | no, this isnt the library |
| 11:15.36 | jonwil | its the notepad binary |
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| 11:16.11 | jonwil | I see a large table with entries like this or so |
| 11:16.13 | jonwil | .got:0002531C DB_Close_ptr DCD DB_Close |
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| 11:16.23 | jonwil | and a bunch more after that |
| 11:16.45 | bjdooks | that'll be a library link table for when the library has loaded |
| 11:17.24 | jonwil | An actual subroutine call (or what I assume to be one) looks like this or so |
| 11:17.26 | jonwil | LDR R0, =aEzx_local_down |
| 11:17.37 | jonwil | =aEzx_local_down points to a string in the data segment |
| 11:17.42 | jonwil | then BL sub_E3D4 |
| 11:17.49 | jonwil | sub_E3D4 for example looks like this |
| 11:17.54 | jonwil | ADR R12, loc_E3DC |
| 11:17.57 | jonwil | ADD R12, R12, #loc_17000 |
| 11:18.03 | jonwil | loc_E3DC: |
| 11:18.07 | jonwil | LDR PC, [R12,#0x248]! |
| 11:18.16 | jonwil | I have no clue what those 3 instructions are actually doing |
| 11:18.45 | [df] | what's at loc_17000? |
| 11:19.01 | bjdooks | ADR and ADD are an PIC way of finding the address of a place |
| 11:19.15 | bjdooks | the third is then a jump to the location of *(R12 + 0x248) |
| 11:19.24 | jonwil | .text:00017000 is just some point somewhere in the code |
| 11:19.31 | jonwil | its not even the start of a function |
| 11:19.54 | bjdooks | you need to take the first two as a pair. it'll be really |
| 11:20.09 | bjdooks | [ADD|SUB] PC, R12, #constant |
| 11:20.17 | bjdooks | ADD R12, R12, #constant |
| 11:20.32 | bjdooks | where the two constants form an offset of PC to the data it wants |
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| 11:21.16 | bjdooks | in c, it'd be: |
| 11:21.32 | bjdooks | void (*fn)(arg) = address_of_function; |
| 11:21.43 | bjdooks | (fn)(arg); |
| 11:21.47 | jonwil | ok, so if the function is at address E3D4, what will be in R12 after ADR R12, loc_E3DC? |
| 11:21.59 | bjdooks | the address of loc_E3DC |
| 11:22.11 | jonwil | which is E3DC |
| 11:22.12 | bjdooks | the second will make it loc_E3DC+0x17000 |
| 11:22.22 | lindi- | jonwil: it needs to know where in memory it is itself |
| 11:22.28 | lindi- | right? |
| 11:22.43 | jonwil | yeah |
| 11:22.53 | jonwil | so given these instructions |
| 11:22.55 | jonwil | ADR R12, loc_E3DC |
| 11:22.57 | jonwil | ADD R12, R12, #loc_17000 |
| 11:23.00 | jonwil | LDR PC, [R12,#0x248]! |
| 11:23.05 | jonwil | the C would be something like |
| 11:23.10 | jonwil | R12 = E3DC |
| 11:23.22 | jonwil | R12 = R12 + 17000 |
| 11:23.35 | lindi- | jonwil: can you print the first instruction in hex? |
| 11:23.36 | jonwil | jump to [R12+248] |
| 11:23.41 | bjdooks | yep |
| 11:24.01 | jonwil | First instruction is 00 C6 8F E2 in hex |
| 11:24.08 | bjdooks | 253DC is R12, R12+248 is 25624 |
| 11:24.14 | jonwil | second is 17 CA 8C E2 |
| 11:24.51 | jonwil | Looks like I need to somehow make an IDA macro to automate this :P |
| 11:24.57 | jonwil | so it can do the math for me automatically |
| 11:25.55 | lindi- | hrr, IDA is proprietary |
| 11:26.08 | shellevil | strace and gdb |
| 11:26.11 | shellevil | may help |
| 11:26.16 | jonwil | strace dont work on this phone |
| 11:26.41 | shellevil | The notepad thingy may send uncompressed strings to the library, which then writes them compressed |
| 11:26.58 | shellevil | looking at the calls... |
| 11:27.01 | jonwil | even if it does, doesnt matter since what I am writing is going to run on the phone |
| 11:27.11 | shellevil | LD_PRELOAD ? |
| 11:27.14 | jonwil | i.e. I want to figure out how to talk to this ezxdb library |
| 11:27.47 | shellevil | Have you run 'file' over the database file? |
| 11:28.06 | jonwil | yes, didnt reveal anything |
| 11:28.32 | jonwil | let me look at it in hex editor see if that shows anything |
| 11:32.50 | jonwil | btw on this phone motorola block ptrace, block /dev/mem and friends and also block loading of kernel modules unless the MD5 of the module is in a special file on the root filesystem |
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| 11:33.01 | jonwil | so yeah we are limited in running GDB |
| 11:35.01 | lindi- | jonwil: nope |
| 11:35.14 | lindi- | jonwil: there's an injectable tracer |
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| 11:36.41 | lindi- | jonwil: 'Next Generation Debuggers for Reverse Engineering by Julien Vanegue, Thomas Garnier, Julio Auto, Sebastien Roy and Rafal Lesniak' |
| 11:36.49 | lindi- | jonwil: -- http://s.eresi-project.org/inc/articles/bheu-eresi-article-2007.pdf |
| 11:36.59 | lindi- | jonwil: -- http://s.eresi-project.org/inc/articles/bheu-eresi-slides-2007.pdf |
| 11:37.49 | jonwil | Question: How do parameters get passed to functions? |
| 11:37.52 | lindi- | jonwil: 'our novel embedded architecture is more adapted when debuggee systems are hostile and protected at the operating system level. This alternative modelization is also more performant as the debugger executes from inside the debuggee program and can read the memory o' |
| 11:38.01 | bjdooks | jonwil: R0..R3, then on the stack |
| 11:40.13 | jonwil | so R0,R1,R2 and R3 are like eax,ebx,ecx and edx on x86? |
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| 11:42.24 | lindi- | jonwil: it's just a convention yes |
| 11:42.36 | jonwil | ok |
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| 11:47.29 | CIA-49 | openmoko: 03werner * r4927 10/developers/werner/wolfhammer/buzz.state: |
| 11:47.29 | CIA-49 | openmoko: Crude adaptation of stereoout.state that feeds mic input through |
| 11:47.29 | CIA-49 | openmoko: the "sidechannel" to the speaker. This should give us a means to |
| 11:47.29 | CIA-49 | openmoko: check whether the buzz fix worked. |
| 11:47.29 | CIA-49 | openmoko: For now, wolfhammer produces a loud and clear buzz that seems |
| 11:47.29 | CIA-49 | openmoko: completely unimpressed by the addition of a capacitor. To be |
| 11:47.29 | CIA-49 | openmoko: continued ... |
| 11:47.54 | CIA-49 | openmoko: 03werner * r4928 10/developers/werner/athintd/athintd.c: Add option -d to enable debug output. |
| 11:48.49 | jonwil | is there a guide to ARM registers anywhere? |
| 11:49.00 | lindi- | jonwil: the ARM specs |
| 11:49.11 | jonwil | link? |
| 11:49.26 | lindi- | jonwil: 14128.pdf :) |
| 11:49.40 | lindi- | jonwil: first hit on google for that |
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| 11:50.34 | bjdooks | you want the EABI specs for the exact meaning, R0..R15 are pretty much interchnageable... |
| 11:50.49 | jonwil | btw, the ARM I am dealing with says it is a "Some Random V6 Processor rev 1 (v6l)" |
| 11:50.58 | jonwil | also it says its a 6TEJ |
| 11:51.13 | bjdooks | all that says is about the extra co-processors |
| 11:51.18 | lindi- | T is for thumb i think? |
| 11:51.23 | lindi- | v6 is instruction set? |
| 11:51.28 | bjdooks | thumb, extended-dsp, java iirc |
| 11:51.30 | jonwil | well it says features are "swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp java" |
| 11:51.38 | lindi- | bjdooks: jazelle that is? |
| 11:51.38 | jonwil | vfp is FPU |
| 11:51.45 | jonwil | java is special for java stuffs |
| 11:52.01 | jonwil | what would fastmult be? |
| 11:52.03 | jonwil | and swp and half? |
| 11:52.09 | bjdooks | fast multiplication for 32x32 |
| 11:52.20 | bjdooks | SWP is the SWP instruction |
| 11:52.26 | jonwil | which does what? |
| 11:52.26 | bjdooks | half is halfword load/store |
| 11:52.37 | bjdooks | it is for atomic locks |
| 11:52.50 | bjdooks | swap a value from register into memory, and vice-versa |
| 11:53.01 | jonwil | ok, makes sense |
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| 12:00.48 | jonwil | Whats the difference between B and BL? |
| 12:01.03 | jonwil | so BL is like call and B is like jump? |
| 12:01.05 | bjdooks | BL sets R14 to address after BL |
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| 12:01.29 | bjdooks | ie, R14 = PC + 4; PC = <addr> |
| 12:01.38 | jonwil | ok, so BL is for subroutine calls |
| 12:01.41 | Weiss | BL="branch and link" |
| 12:01.41 | jonwil | and B is for jumps |
| 12:01.51 | bjdooks | yep |
| 12:04.40 | bjdooks | both pc-relative |
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| 12:07.36 | jonwil | Whats a BLX for? |
| 12:07.50 | bjdooks | extension for jumping between ARM/Thumb modes |
| 12:08.14 | jonwil | so BLX <register> jumps to the address in <register> and switches to THUMB? |
| 12:08.27 | bjdooks | thum/arm is dependant on LSB of address |
| 12:08.30 | lindi- | read the specs :) |
| 12:09.06 | jonwil | ok |
| 12:09.51 | lindi- | jonwil: but feel free to ask if anything is unclear |
| 12:10.12 | jonwil | ok |
| 12:10.35 | lindi- | (even I can't remember what BLX does by heart) |
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| 13:05.59 | jonwil | ok, so R0 is where the return value from a function usually goes? |
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| 13:16.47 | lindi- | jonwil: yep |
| 13:16.52 | jonwil | ok |
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| 14:11.51 | PaulFertser | lucky to find that Gnus has a per-group configuration broken-reply-to does exactly what is needed to workaround fucked up community list behaviour. |
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| 15:44.10 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rda6dd8e07c52 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/unsolicited.py: |
| 15:44.10 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Follow renaming of properties attribute in SMS |
| 15:44.10 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: Fixes bugs 359 and 358 which are duplicates. |
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| 16:07.26 | kr1s | did someone know a german openmoko irc channel? |
| 16:07.40 | bjdooks | check the wiki |
| 16:07.47 | henk | kr1s: #neo1973-germany |
| 16:07.54 | kr1s | thx |
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| 16:31.01 | Eirik_ | 7j |
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| 17:37.39 | ChristW | I seem to be having problems with opkg upgrade. After some time, it exits with 'Killed'. It seems to have something to do with navit, since it regurlarly, but not always, gets killed in the download or during the 'configuring' stage. Is there anything I can do to troubleshoot? Also, the Freerunner seems to freeze during the opkg run. |
| 17:39.37 | Weiss | ChristW: run "top" in another session while you're doing it? sounds like opkg could be chewing up all the memory |
| 17:40.38 | Eirik_ | you know, i think i'm just going to curbstomp this thing and buy an iphone |
| 17:40.40 | ChristW | It does chew up all the CPU time, of that I'm sure :-) I'll try, since I've noticed that the FR seems to hang. |
| 17:41.05 | ChristW | I've just done 'opkg download navit', which works. Is there a way to update using that .opk file? |
| 17:41.51 | Weiss | ChristW: i'm interested in whether it's chewing all the memory, as well |
| 17:42.08 | ChristW | I'll run a 'top' next to it... |
| 17:42.29 | Weiss | you can extract the opkg file manually, but it's a thoroughly nasty thing to do (ar x file.opkg, tar -xzf data.tar.gz etc..) |
| 17:43.22 | slaxxin | eiric if u decide to ebay it i have some friends interested |
| 17:43.34 | ChristW | Nah, I'd rather use opkg for it... opkg has an '-offline' switch that looks promising, but gives me errors. |
| 17:43.37 | rhkfin | Eirik_: your decision, not ours. I'll interpret it more as a threatning what doesn't really work here :) |
| 17:45.19 | ChristW | Ho, hum. Right before 'top' stopped giving updates, I had %cpu at about 90, and %mem at about 45. And not it says 'killed' again. |
| 17:45.35 | ChristW | %s/not/now/ in the last sentence... |
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| 17:47.39 | ChristW | This looks reproducible. CPU at 65%-ish, memory at 45%-ish. |
| 17:48.09 | ChristW | And 'top' does not do any updates to the screen any more. |
| 17:48.33 | ChristW | Mind you, I'm running SSH from my desktop to the FR to see the top, perhaps I should run it on the FR itself? |
| 17:49.47 | Weiss | shouldn't make much difference i think |
| 17:52.22 | ChristW | It's still hanging... top gives no updates, and opkg is silent, as well. |
| 17:52.51 | ChristW | I've seen it do upgrades of navit, though... so it's only sometimes a problem. |
| 17:53.08 | ChristW | Maybe they should split it up into a data section and a program section... |
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| 18:25.52 | PBeck | ahoi |
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| 18:30.31 | sportman | is there an openmoko phone that runs on US carriers? |
| 18:30.46 | mjr | yes, the 850 MHz version of gta02 |
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| 18:32.04 | sportman | mjr what carrier would that be? |
| 18:32.07 | sportman | att/ |
| 18:32.08 | sportman | ? |
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| 18:45.21 | stephan | is there a way to disable the md5 check for opkg? |
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| 18:58.43 | Nobody96 | moin |
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| 19:02.24 | laen | Is there an option somewhere in /etc/ where you can tell the phone to not dim when it's connect via USB or powercable? |
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| 19:17.59 | rhkfin | laen: There's an optin.. wait.. oh, no wait, it's for suspend, not dim.. Don't know. |
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| 19:24.59 | slaxxin | does fyp come with a media player like xmms or something? |
| 19:27.59 | lindi- | slaxxin: debian comes with xmms2 |
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| 19:40.19 | mib_ywr4l3 | is openmoko going to participate in gsoc2009? |
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| 20:18.27 | fredrin | like when i flash the FR with FSO5 with Paroli, just rootfs and kernel, it seams like the usb-networking modules is not included? why? And there is no way to get a shell on the phone.... |
| 20:18.31 | fredrin | what pas? |
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| 20:46.55 | Xterm | hiii |
| 20:47.25 | Xterm | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:47.45 | Xterm | i m trying to transfer saved data from one mobile to anotherduring an active phone call |
| 20:47.46 | laen | Oh man i love my phone. |
| 20:47.47 | *** join/#openmoko [Rui] (n=Rui@81.84.169.253) |
| 20:48.01 | laen | Had my sister on the phone, and the connection just died after like 30 minutes. |
| 20:48.04 | laen | Wheee :D |
| 20:48.26 | Xterm | is it possible to such thing in open moko |
| 20:48.45 | laen | Xterm: go to the wiki and come back in a week. |
| 20:48.49 | Xterm | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:49.20 | Xterm | wiki have nothing to deal with it |
| 20:49.50 | Xterm | i have doubt upon openmoko capability |
| 20:50.35 | Xterm | actually, i m trying to send an long text file from onemobile to another |
| 20:50.54 | Xterm | i thought as sound through microphone is digitalised and again converted into analog and then modulation of it is done to pass across |
| 20:51.03 | Xterm | if could send any other data instead that of from microphone... |
| 20:51.15 | *** join/#openmoko mmontour (n=mmontour@S01060016b606e65a.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 20:55.09 | Zorkman | Xterm: a few things make what you want rather difficult |
| 20:55.26 | Zorkman | one: the data (voice) is heavelly editted by the network companies |
| 20:55.52 | Zorkman | it' optimized for human voice |
| 20:56.07 | Xterm | okk |
| 20:56.15 | Zorkman | it would be possible to do something like sending morse with human-voices... |
| 20:56.34 | Zorkman | or some other encryption, but it would remain very slow i think |
| 20:56.51 | Zorkman | better to use gprs then... |
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| 20:57.20 | Xterm | how about using text to sound conversion |
| 20:58.04 | Xterm | i m thinking to do something innovative... |
| 20:58.05 | Zorkman | i think that should be possible |
| 20:58.19 | Xterm | okk |
| 20:58.28 | Zorkman | if you want expert advice: mail your idea to the community mailing list |
| 20:59.18 | Xterm | actually i talked in j2me and android community but they said it is not possible to send any saved data during call over gsm |
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| 21:00.14 | laen | So, is there still a bug open about the buzzing sound while calling or was that fixed with a patch/trick somehow? |
| 21:00.21 | Xterm | they suggested that to handle sound during call is a hardware thing... |
| 21:00.26 | Xterm | do u agree with it?? |
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| 21:17.25 | rooly | so...anyone have any luck with at&t and using fso's framework for gprs? |
| 21:20.30 | anttna | Hi, I haven't been following this channel / ml for a few days so apologies if this has been covered |
| 21:20.32 | anttna | Has anyone had a problem seeing the map with fyp and tangoGPS? |
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| 21:32.53 | anttna | sorry, i hope i haven't wasted anyones time. it is working now (i may have clicked xyz not zyx in th econfig edit). I have been trying to get it to work for a couple of days with no map showing |
| 21:32.55 | anttna | I am fairly sure that I checked the box _ i guess I didn't click ok? |
| 21:33.03 | *** join/#openmoko billk (n=billk@203-206-123-228.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 21:33.18 | lindi- | could not find any existing dictation software so i wrote my own: http://iki.fi/lindi/darcs/monologue/ -- can you suggest me some existing software that can record only when i speak? |
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| 21:39.44 | daramarak | Hi, I really want epdfreader on my moko. But I cannot seem to find |
| 21:39.57 | daramarak | libpoppler >= 0.64 |
| 21:40.16 | daramarak | Anyone know of a repo in om that got it? |
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| 21:42.32 | joerg_42 | lindi-: arecord | od | sed > dictation.raw ? |
| 21:43.20 | joerg_42 | sth along this line maybe? |
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| 21:51.11 | rooly | so nobody |
| 21:52.35 | anttna_ | rooly: not me |
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| 21:53.37 | rooly | ic |
| 21:53.51 | rooly | doesn't wanna mess with qtopia if he doesn't have to |
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| 21:59.18 | anttna_ | likes fyp |
| 21:59.33 | anttna_ | doh /me didn't work |
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| 22:00.09 | Wonka | it did. |
| 22:00.57 | anttna_ | doh |
| 22:04.57 | joerg_42 | lindi-: also look at 'sox silence' |
| 22:05.31 | anttna | Wonka: Thanks. I just saw the colour of my nick was the same and didn't look any closer. Thanks. I briefly used irc about 14 years ago at university but have only recently started using it again |
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| 22:06.29 | rooly | ... |
| 22:06.35 | rooly | should i flash in something other than FSO? |
| 22:07.10 | *** join/#openmoko Obri (i=daniel@sonne.alt-f4.ch) |
| 22:08.14 | UndrWater | try shr |
| 22:09.16 | rooly | no |
| 22:09.24 | rooly | won't do that again |
| 22:09.48 | *** join/#openmoko emsyr (n=emsyr@ppp079166093093.dsl.hol.gr) |
| 22:10.08 | rooly | so far, qte seems to be the only distro that has anything near decent gprs support |
| 22:10.22 | rooly | decides to flash it in |
| 22:13.30 | *** join/#openmoko faltantornillos (n=yo@81.202.142.12.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 22:15.05 | faltantornillos | Hello. I think linphone isn't available in the default shr repos, are there any other repos where I can find it? pelase |
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| 22:28.28 | UndrWater | faltantornillos: have you tried opkg.org? |
| 22:29.30 | faltantornillos | UndrWater yep but without luck |
| 22:33.49 | lindi- | joerg_42: but sox silence does not write down when it starts recording for voice |
| 22:34.39 | joerg_42 | err, don't understand. |
| 22:34.55 | lindi- | joerg_42: i want to later be able to correlate the data vrt. GPS position |
| 22:35.17 | lindi- | joerg_42: so that I can use it to extend openstreetmap with my voice notes |
| 22:35.17 | joerg_42 | probably real problem is sox using FP |
| 22:35.36 | joerg_42 | ahh I see |
| 22:35.38 | lindi- | joerg_42: and sox does not gettimeofday() so it is a problem |
| 22:37.42 | joerg_42 | yes that's not exactly audio domain problem, so "swiss army knife" will fail |
| 22:38.12 | shellevil | ponders bastard solution with strace to note when sox is writing. |
| 22:39.16 | lindi- | joerg_42: yep, i did actually read man sox before writing this, and also googled around and used apt-cache search |
| 22:39.30 | lindi- | slaxxin: ha! |
| 22:39.34 | joerg_42 | probably a script detecting a "trigger" via arecord plus some processing with od' grep etc mihht do |
| 22:40.10 | lindi- | might but the C version is not that complex either :) |
| 22:40.49 | lindi- | next i need to think about how to compress with speex and how to listen to the recordings |
| 22:42.13 | joerg_42 | compressing doesn't payback for voice recording of short takes |
| 22:42.41 | lindi- | joerg_42: yes i probably need to read speex docs to figure out how much padding i need |
| 22:43.50 | slaxxin | so which media player to use with fyp? |
| 22:43.58 | joerg_42 | generally some minutes of 8k-mono audio are smaller than libspeex, even uncompressed ;-) |
| 22:44.12 | lindi- | joerg_42: but of course i want high quality 44100 audio :) |
| 22:44.20 | joerg_42 | lol |
| 22:44.46 | joerg_42 | no sense in compressing this with speex then |
| 22:44.54 | lindi- | used nokia communicator for a long time and got annoyed when it couldn't record for more than 60 seconds at a time |
| 22:45.22 | joerg_42 | also compressing is kinda cpuhog |
| 22:46.14 | lindi- | joerg_42: but freerunner can do it realtime? |
| 22:46.27 | joerg_42 | probably |
| 22:46.33 | joerg_42 | dunno |
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| 22:50.36 | lindi- | joerg_42: should freerunner support recording at 32 kHz sampling rate? |
| 22:51.30 | lindi- | joerg_42: 'arecord -r 44100 -f S16_LE -t raw | speexenc --stereo --rate 44100 --16bit --le - a.speex' uses around 50% cpu for speexenc and 10% for arecord |
| 22:52.14 | joerg_42 | alsa should. if it's a genuine sampling rate of wolfson though I can't tell off the top of my head |
| 22:52.54 | joerg_42 | anyway what U r doing is nonsense (sorry). |
| 22:53.17 | lindi- | joerg_42: how come? ;) |
| 22:53.26 | joerg_42 | compressing will lose all the quality you hope to gain by 44( |
| 22:53.39 | lindi- | ok :P |
| 22:53.43 | joerg_42 | 44100 |
| 22:53.52 | lindi- | joerg_42: but suppose i want to do push-to-talk over GPRS |
| 22:53.58 | lindi- | joerg_42: which combination would you recommend? |
| 22:54.12 | *** join/#openmoko Xterm (n=IceChat7@64.251.25.150) |
| 22:54.15 | joerg_42 | gsm codec? |
| 22:54.24 | *** join/#openmoko imcsk8 (n=ichavero@nat.ti.uach.mx) |
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| 22:54.46 | joerg_42 | 8k 8bit mono format |
| 22:55.20 | shellevil | not with gprs |
| 22:55.23 | joerg_42 | if you want better quality, go for 16bit |
| 22:55.24 | lindi- | 'First of all, it's not clear whether GSM-FR is covered by a Philips patent (see http://kbs.cs.tu-berlin.de/~jutta/toast.html). Also, GSM-FR offers mediocre quality at a relatively high bit-rate, while Speex can offer equivalent quality at almost half the bit-rate. Last but not least, Speex offers a wide range of bit-rates and sampling rates, while GSM-FR is limited to 8 kHz speech at 13 kbps.' |
| 22:55.31 | lindi- | that's how they argument for speex |
| 22:55.41 | shellevil | GPRS is about 4.5kbytes/sec best |
| 22:56.54 | joerg_42 | there are other gsm codecs than just FR, and patents won't care |
| 22:57.14 | joerg_42 | anyway use whatever compression you like |
| 22:57.41 | *** join/#openmoko Tig| (n=tigger@tig.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 22:57.43 | joerg_42 | just don't exagerate on sampling rate. it doesn't pay back |
| 22:57.59 | lindi- | aha |
| 22:58.58 | lindi- | btw, bought torx T6 and some lead-free tin today. now i only need the cap and resistor to do buzz fix |
| 22:59.42 | joerg_42 | k, do you need help on finding a suiting cap? and R? |
| 22:59.56 | Tig| | hmm does u-boot do some battery testing before flashing a rootfs, I thought it would be powered from the USB when flashing? |
| 23:00.35 | joerg_42 | it's recommended to do flashing with charged bat only |
| 23:01.07 | Tig| | joerg_42, ah would this be why dfu-util just hangs, could it have decided there is not enough battery to flash? |
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| 23:02.17 | joerg_42 | nah, probably not. dfu-util doesn't care about destination's bat status. However if FR stalls, so will dfu-util |
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| 23:03.06 | Tig| | I think it must be battery related as just booted shr and it thinks the battery is flat, oops :) |
| 23:04.13 | lindi- | joerg_42: not sure, i could by start calling the local electronics shop |
| 23:04.22 | lindi- | s/by start/start by/ |
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| 23:05.59 | anttna | Hi does anyone know if there will be much difference in the power drawn by a 2m GPS antenna vs. a 5m antenna? |
| 23:06.38 | shellevil | none at all |
| 23:06.40 | joerg_42 | wtf is a 5m ant? |
| 23:06.47 | shellevil | assuming you mean cable, not diameter |
| 23:06.50 | joerg_42 | cable length? |
| 23:06.54 | joerg_42 | no diff |
| 23:07.03 | anttna | yes sorry 5m cable. Thanks |
| 23:07.04 | shellevil | If you mean diameter, then you will need much bigger positioner motors on the 5m :) |
| 23:07.34 | joerg_42 | lol ;D |
| 23:07.54 | shellevil | has done GPS on a 1.2m dish for better SNR |
| 23:09.20 | anttna | shellevil: for what application did you use a dish? |
| 23:11.04 | shellevil | ant: trying to get interesting results with the GPS in the GTA01 - reverse engineering |
| 23:11.10 | joerg_42 | shellevil: U can't use dish for GPS |
| 23:11.35 | shellevil | joe: sure you can |
| 23:11.39 | joerg_42 | btw 2m-band = 160MHz |
| 23:11.47 | shellevil | joerg_42: point dish at sat - voila. |
| 23:12.01 | shellevil | And GPS is 1542MHZ IIRC |
| 23:12.22 | joerg_42 | nonsense, you need multiple (>=3) sats *same time*! |
| 23:12.39 | shellevil | joerg_42: I diddn't say I was using it to get a position. |
| 23:12.41 | joerg_42 | gps = 2cm band |
| 23:12.46 | shellevil | joerg_42: err - no |
| 23:12.54 | shellevil | joe: nowhere near there |
| 23:13.23 | joerg_42 | err 20cm |
| 23:13.42 | joerg_42 | sth like that |
| 23:14.11 | shellevil | joerg_42: I was using it as an attempted aid for reverse engineering the binary protocol of the hammerhead. With it an an attenuator, you can calibrate the exact strength and see how the output of the chip varies |
| 23:14.27 | shellevil | !math (3*10^8)/.2 |
| 23:14.31 | shellevil | oops |
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| 23:26.26 | joerg_42 | shellevil: yea sorry for the typo |
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| 23:28.06 | shellevil | np. |
| 23:28.19 | shellevil | is doing software GPS ATM. Much fun. |
| 23:28.48 | shellevil | Especially on small general purpose processors. |
| 23:31.36 | daramarak | is it bad karma to use gifs in a openmoko project? |
| 23:32.45 | daramarak | Tkinter only supports gifs |
| 23:32.48 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@79-66-16-212.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 23:33.25 | shellevil | nothing wrong with gif. |
| 23:33.27 | shellevil | (now) |
| 23:33.32 | shellevil | all the patents have run out. |
| 23:34.06 | shellevil | Though nobody's published the source of a nice lossy gif encoder, which is a pity |
| 23:36.23 | daramarak | There is something wrong with gif. |
| 23:36.29 | daramarak | It isn't png |
| 23:37.00 | mjr | Well. gif is a rather limited format, but yeah, at least it's not very restricted anymore |
| 23:37.08 | mjr | indeed ;) |
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