IRC log for #openmoko on 20090222

00:00.21[Rui]PaulFertser_: well, thanks for the link, it's one idea more I haven' tried :)
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00:00.44[Rui]maybe it needs to load up once on a more conventional phone
00:01.00[Rui]aha! his other phone doesn't register either
00:01.02[Rui]that's good
00:01.14[Rui]this way I have a quite normal phone to complain about
00:01.39[Rui]it's a N O K I A so it should work, shouldn't it? (hope the vendor balks)
00:02.07PaulFertser_[Rui]: Good. BTW, maybe you need some additional "first registration" steps?
00:02.38PaulFertser_[Rui]: or it doesn't register to network at all?
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00:02.59[Rui]PaulFertser_: doesn't register.
00:03.10[Rui]message was: "failed to register sim card"
00:03.25PaulFertser_[Rui]: cool, now you have a decent way to complain :)
00:03.33[Rui]hell yeah!
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01:20.42|Marco|is there a trick to storing changes to u-boot boot-menu ?
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01:57.28slaxxinmy shr has vertical lines
01:57.37slaxxinafter suspend
01:58.13slaxxinhave to reboot
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03:14.11Digital-PioneerI just installed SHR unstable. ophonekitd doesn't run.
03:14.16Digital-PioneerIt runs, but dies.
03:14.22Digital-PioneerSays SIM isn't unlocked.
03:15.58Digital-PioneerSHR testing worked just fine.
03:16.20Digital-PioneerUnknown SIM error: Antenna powered off or SIM not unlocked yet, 77 (dbus-glib-error-quark), code 32
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03:24.59slaxxini have had many inconsistencies installing shr
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03:33.08Digital-PioneerSo.... Can I fix it, or do I flash back to Testing?
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04:40.53slaxxincant seem to make shr work with any latest kernels
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05:43.40Arg0naut#openmoko-cdevel
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06:35.35doc|homeanyone else have the midori icon missing on shr?
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06:45.01Arg0nauton first install yes, but after opkg update/upgrade it fixed itself
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07:05.12vmxhi. is there a preferred sofware to make a contribution to openstreetmaps as easy as possible?
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07:17.07doc|homeis ssh not in shr?
07:17.12doc|homeas in an sshd
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08:29.44lymecaI was attracted to shr because good power management is very important to me
08:29.57lymecahttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions#Power
08:30.30lymecaI know I don't want Gentoo, and I think Android isn't quite ready yet with respect to the keyboard (or at least that's what I've heard?)
08:30.49lymecaWhat will give me reliable telephony with good power management?
08:33.38lymecaAlso, can I use Qi with no microSD card?
08:33.47lymecaAnd do 16GB microSD cards work?
08:34.56PaulFertser_lymeca: yes, Qi can be used without uSD card
08:35.03lymecaGood
08:35.08lymecaI think I want to upgrade to Qi
08:35.16lymecaNot sure what I want to put on top of it.
08:35.22lymecaI'm using a really old FDOM
08:35.32lymecaI installed it back in November I think.
08:35.33PaulFertser_lymeca: and yes, 16Gb are supposed to be working, there were some reports. But cards can be different, you know.
08:35.46lymecaAye
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08:37.35PaulFertser_Digital_Pioneer: please file a bug that includes ophonekitd output (ogsmd DEBUG output may be handy as well).
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09:13.10elserpientepeople, how know why Fr on new 2.6.28 kernels doesn't recognize under XP/Vista? It is able only under 2.6.24?
09:14.54PaulFertser_elserpiente: because all xp users are not motivated enough to fix it.
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09:16.13elserpientei'm simple don't know how thats why i'm asking :)
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09:16.26PaulFertser_elserpiente: read what upstream maintainer wrote: http://marc.info/?l=linux-usb&m=123507198413197&w=2
09:16.35elserpientethanks
09:18.42PaulFertser_elserpiente: my guess is that if one enables a debug in s3c-udc driver it can help too.
09:20.17elserpienteso i must patch kernel source...
09:20.44PaulFertser_elserpiente: one line doesn't count
09:21.19elserpientewhere is s3c-udc lie?
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09:23.45elserpienteis it header? found s3c-udc.h
09:23.53PaulFertser_elserpiente: drivers/usb/gadget/s3c2410_udc.c
09:24.26elserpientewhich line
09:24.31elserpiente#define DEBUG_NORMAL    1
09:24.31elserpiente#define DEBUG_VERBOSE   2
09:25.11freerunnerlivehello
09:25.17elserpientehi
09:25.41PaulFertser_elserpiente: you don't even need to patch the source, it's in Kconfig (config USB_S3C2410_DEBUG). Just choose all possible debugging messages with menuconfig
09:25.56freerunnerlivecan anyone make fix http://neverball.org/ to run with openmoko neo freerunner accelometer ?
09:26.34elserpientePaulFertser_ : is it fix that issue?
09:27.12PaulFertser_elserpiente: enabling debug fixes absence of debug messages. Debug log might help somebody to fix the issue.
09:28.01elserpientei see :)
09:28.49PaulFertser_elserpiente: probably if you post a followup to the message i gave you a link with this debug log, you might get more hints from the upstream maintainer.
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11:44.20h4vhow can I enable 100mA charging in shr-unstable?
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12:02.56Fougnermorning xD
12:06.48SpeedEvilchecks.
12:06.50SpeedEvilAfternoon.
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12:14.48badcloudheyloo pips
12:16.02SpeedEvilHowever - the walls are 50-60cm stone/brick, 5cm air, and plasterboard.
12:16.03SpeedEviloops
12:17.08badcloudhey there Speed
12:17.26badcloudyou building a house?
12:17.38SpeedEvilNo.
12:17.44SpeedEvilMy house at the moment has
12:17.50SpeedEvilHowever - the walls are 50-60cm stone/brick, 5cm air, and plasterboard.
12:17.58SpeedEvilAnd the floor is just suspended wood over sand. Hence - not much insulation.
12:18.04SpeedEvilI'm renovating.
12:18.17badcloudI sea
12:18.25SpeedEvilWhich is taking OM related time and budget :/
12:18.40Fougner:o
12:18.43badcloudlemme ask you. which distro are you using on yours?
12:18.44Fougnerbad thing =(
12:18.53Fougneryeah, tell us
12:19.07SpeedEvilNo GTA02 ATM. See above.
12:19.10badcloudor rather, which kernel would be the most stable for 2008.12?
12:19.15badcloudgotcha
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12:20.17badcloudmy FR stopped charging the batt and accessing gsm after a day running SHR lite+andy-moredrivers
12:20.35badcloudthink I might go back to 2008.12 if it works with qi
12:21.05Fougner:D
12:21.10FougnerDave !!!!!
12:21.24SpeedEvil2-3m radius, and 20m length
12:21.26SpeedEviloops
12:21.30Fougnerhaha
12:21.42badcloudDave! I wanna have your baby!
12:22.04FougnerSpeedEvil, that's a really big ****
12:22.29Fougnerreal*
12:22.31SpeedEvilAlas, I was describing the hemicylindrical isothermal sand under my house.
12:22.45FougnerAlas?
12:23.16Fougnerah, dictionay
12:23.20Fougner+r
12:23.32badcloudcan I just ask what boot/kernel/rootfs combo you guys are using?
12:23.39badcloudI'm sick of flashing every other week
12:24.19Fougnerfor the moment, uboot + 2008.12 release kernel and rootfs
12:24.40*** join/#openmoko chomwitt (n=chomwitt@ppp-94-69-50-92.home.otenet.gr)
12:24.44badcloudand did you manage to use an illume keyb with that?
12:24.54Fougnernope
12:25.03Fougnerhaven't tried
12:25.09badcloud...or cancel out the dictionary?
12:25.30badcloudyou know, character per one touch
12:26.05Fougnerah, you're not english? =)
12:26.08*** join/#openmoko Zorkman (i=Zorkman@dD576909C.access.telenet.be)
12:26.12badcloudnope
12:26.14badcloudAmerican
12:26.28badcloudbut it can get iffy when using the terminal
12:26.31FougnerI meant, you're not using english
12:26.38Fougnerhaha, yeah
12:27.08badcloudbecause last time I tried that flashing, I couldn't shut the damn word completion off
12:27.39Fougnerheh
12:27.46badcloudcan you?
12:27.56Fougnernope
12:28.03badcloud:P
12:28.11badcloudnuts to it all
12:28.19Fougnerbut maybe I can read a little.. and then shut it off
12:28.38*** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host76-59-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
12:28.57badcloudI tried a friend's iPhone today. it's response within the system software is uncanny
12:29.18badcloudits#
12:29.21Fougnerlooks up uncanny in a dictionary..
12:29.34badcloudthat's the type of speed and smoothness that should be strived to here
12:29.46badcloudit takes forever to change profiles in shr
12:29.50SpeedEvilsmoothness is optional.
12:29.54badclouduncanny=amazing
12:29.56SpeedEvilAt least initially
12:30.00badcloudright
12:30.02SpeedEvilsnappy is just fine
12:30.10badcloudI agree
12:30.21badcloudthat's why I like the OM stack so much
12:30.27Fougnerhaha, the dictionary says uncanny = scary, spooky
12:30.41SpeedEvilFougner: also unbelievable
12:30.50badcloudright
12:30.55badclouddepends on context
12:31.12Fougneryeah, but I translated it back from swedish =)
12:31.22badcloudoverraskert
12:31.25badcloud?
12:31.33Fougner?
12:31.39badcloudor does that mean 'surprised'
12:31.48Fougneröverraskad
12:31.56badcloudright
12:32.02Fougner:)
12:32.17FougnerI'm jealous...
12:32.22badcloudof...
12:32.46Fougneryou guys don't have to learn a second language.. you'll be doing just fine speaking english basically all over the world
12:33.01badcloudI always feel guilty about that
12:33.07FougnerxD
12:33.24Fougnerwell, you shouldn't
12:33.40badcloudthat people go through grade school English to talk to ignorant Americans like me
12:33.49*** join/#openmoko stra (n=stra@163-98.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch)
12:34.00badcloudbut if you say so...
12:34.02Fougnergrade school ?
12:34.12straanyone familiar with the powermngt settings in SHR?
12:34.19badcloud3rd through 7th usually
12:34.24badcloudsure, stra
12:34.34badcloudbut not completely
12:34.35Fougnerbadcloud, what age?
12:34.37straim getting confused what all the settings mean
12:34.42strais there any documentation?
12:34.43*** join/#openmoko JanC (n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC)
12:34.50badcloudhmmm, 9-14
12:35.02badcloudgood question, stra
12:35.21badcloudtried google/openmoko's wiki?
12:35.28strayeah
12:35.30Fougnerwell, actually we begin to learn english in first grade. from the age of 7
12:35.50Fougner*from first grade ?
12:36.00strabadcloud, you know how to disable the pwr mngt ?
12:36.18badcloudno
12:36.19badcloudsorry
12:36.33straidle_dim and idle setting seem to have no effect
12:36.38badcloudlook at http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Customize
12:36.49badcloudyeah, I tried that too
12:37.10badcloudcouldn't read fbreader for more than 10 seconds without the screen fading
12:37.39badcloudPower management ¶  You can adjust parameters in  /etc/freesmartphone/oevents/rules.yaml /etc/freesmartphone/opreferences/conf/profiles/default.yaml
12:37.59strathanks, i will have a look
12:38.03Zorkmanbadcloud: have you tried updating your shr-setting and taking a look at the new "powe rmanagement" there?
12:38.42badcloudactually no, but that's at the end of my list. I can't charge or access my sim card
12:38.54badcloud(charge the battery)
12:39.20badcloudplus I can't stand how slow shr's settings is
12:39.36badcloudI can do for less options in exchange for some response time
12:39.41*** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-153-106-148.range86-153.btcentralplus.com)
12:40.00badcloudplus most of the things are doable via terminal
12:40.02badcloudso...
12:40.13Fougneryeah, why is everything so slow in the FR? :O
12:40.27FougnerI'd like it to be fast as a normal phone :D
12:40.33SpeedEvilFougner: software
12:40.38badcloudwell, I think it depends on which distro you're using
12:41.01FougnerI've tried a lot, but all of them are slow in some way
12:41.09badcloudso far I've tried OM 2008.12 and shr (+lite)
12:41.10SpeedEvilFougner: the FR is as fast as a P200 with an ISA video card.
12:41.22badcloudOM is fine
12:41.22Fougnerpentium 200MHz?
12:41.26SpeedEvilyes.
12:41.32badcloudqi speeds things up in general
12:41.41Fougnerhaha
12:41.49Fougnerthat's not very cool =(
12:42.14badcloudyou can still do quite a lot with that hardware
12:42.15straat least the SHR settings app schould be fast, since it it really simple. No need for cpu intense tasks.
12:42.26Fougneryeah of course
12:42.37badcloudoh, it's totally a resource waster
12:43.05FougnerI think the problem is the graphical system, like Enlightenment?
12:43.30badcloudI think you might be onto something
12:43.35Fougner^^
12:43.37strabut shoudnt englightement be "the" light and fast graphics system?
12:43.38badcloudthere should be a distro that looks crappy
12:43.51badcloudlike the old black and white macs
12:44.39badcloudthat's where gentoo debian, etc. come in handy
12:44.45Fougnerstra, yes, but E is year 2000 software, and the FR compares to 1990 computer :I
12:44.58badcloudgood point
12:45.00Sharwin_FI was told that the thing that makes shr-settings slow is dbus
12:45.01Heinervdmenlightnment has a lot of png graphics to show, that makes it so slow
12:45.35Heinervdmturning on an of settings needs lot of time because of dbus
12:45.40rasterits not png by the time it gets there
12:45.46rasterits compiled into .edj files in a different format
12:45.58Fougnerraster, right :)
12:45.59Sharwin_Fdbus calls are not asynchronicous with GUI
12:46.09rasterit's surprisingly swift if you actually look at the platform
12:46.26rastertry enlightenment own config dialogs
12:46.34rasteror try elementary-test
12:46.42raster(the elementary test app - testign efl)
12:46.51rasterslowness will be proportional to the complexity of stuff to draw
12:46.55rasterand how many pixels to draw
12:46.59rasterscrolling == drawing
12:47.03Fougneroh my..
12:47.19rasterso scrolling a fullscreen list == redraw the whole screen
12:47.31badcloudI love how nice scummvm runs on OM
12:47.31rasterredraw is slow mostly thanks to glamo's slow bus
12:47.38rasterpartly due to a slow cpu and ram bus
12:47.47Fougnerokaaay
12:47.57Fougnerwe need more hardware!!
12:47.59Fougner:D
12:48.03strai am impressed by the speed that you can switch between apps
12:48.03rasteralways
12:48.05*** join/#openmoko alx} (n=alx}--@79.88.95.134)
12:48.05badcloudor better at least
12:48.11straalso the illume settings are fast
12:48.19rasterscummvm is a fairly bad comparson
12:48.24straso, i dont see a reason for the shr settings to be so slow
12:48.26badcloudare you kidding, stra?
12:48.31rasterit renders most stuff at a low bitdepth in a low res internal buffer
12:48.32badcloudohhhh, illume
12:48.41badcloudnm, stra
12:48.41rasterand without much alpha blending, stretching or anything interesting
12:48.46Heinervdmi'm impressed by the scrolling speed of qtextended
12:48.55badcloudI know, but it's still cool, raster
12:48.59Sharwin_Fraster, that's the cause also for showing video?
12:49.01FougnerGTA03, featuring ARM 1.8GHz, 512MB DDR3 RAM,
12:49.04rastervery different kettle of fish
12:49.05Fougner:D
12:49.07badcloudeven thought the graphics are what, 8 bit?
12:49.41jyrohi, has anyone here successfully run pygame on SHR before?
12:49.51jyroI keep getting "pygame.error: No video mode large enough for 480x640"
12:49.53Zorkman<Fougner> GTA03, featuring ARM 1.8GHz, 512MB DDR3 RAM, 2seconds battery life time? :p
12:50.04badcloudhahaha
12:50.04SpeedEvil03 has an integrated GPU
12:50.10SpeedEvilinto the SoC
12:50.13SpeedEvilthings are _lots_ better
12:50.14FougnerZorkman, we'll need a biiig battery
12:50.32badcloudlaptop bat with usb encasing
12:50.38Fougneruhm. yeah
12:50.50Fougnerevery GTA03 owner, will need a backpack
12:50.56Fougnerand solarcells
12:51.00badcloudit'll be like the good ol' days when portable phones weren't so portable
12:51.37*** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl)
12:51.45Fougnerwell, at least we can run E on without lag :D
12:51.47badcloudone thing which wasn't that good for me in OM was battery life
12:52.01Fougneryeah, horrible
12:52.02badcloudI think it barely lasted a day
12:52.15badcloudwhereas in shr, almost two
12:52.16rasterSpeedEvil: you may be... surprised :)
12:52.31*** join/#openmoko mirko-paroli (n=mirko@cust-IP-10.data.tre.se)
12:52.36rasterand seriously - its not big
12:52.38FougnerI think it depends on the open thingy in the FR
12:52.45rasterthe 6410 isnt any more hungry than 2442+glamo
12:52.47badcloudopen thingie?
12:52.47Fougnerraster, HOW do you knooow?
12:52.55rasteri have a 6410 phone in front of me
12:53.09rasterFougner: because i have stuff well ahead of what om has :)
12:53.12raster(the same hw)
12:53.17raster(well same soc)
12:53.22rasterwith an even higher res screen
12:53.28SpeedEvilraster: surprised in a good way?
12:53.31SpeedEvil:)
12:53.34rasterSpeedEvil:  no.
12:53.35raster:)
12:53.42Fougnerbadcloud, yeah, FR is open phone you know? all components is separate and stuff.. all the big companys make their stuff in closed IC ?
12:53.51SpeedEvilraster: I figure at absolute worst, it's got a fast framebuffer.
12:53.57SpeedEvilraster: anything else is gravy.
12:54.03Heinervdmraster: isn't elementary themeable?
12:54.20badcloudsure, I know. I just didn't understand in what connection you're mentioning this
12:54.22*** join/#openmoko Quiliro (n=ututo@201.217.102.167)
12:54.30Fougnerbadcloud, batterylife
12:54.35badcloudoh
12:54.46rasterSpeedEvil:  oh hell yeah.
12:54.50rasterthe fb is in sysyetm ram
12:54.56rasteru can do 32bpp too
12:55.07rastersoftware rendering is "Acceptable"
12:55.12FougnerI think the FR's drains more battery because there's a lot of components.. big companys make it all integrated.
12:55.19rastereven with more pixels than the gta03 will have (or gta02 - same screen on both)
12:55.30rasterand thats evas rendering - testing elementary and stuff
12:55.40rasterits still maybe 1/2 the power of an omap3 system
12:55.45rasterso stil behind that curve
12:55.46SpeedEvilFR drains lots of battery as much powersaving stuff is unimplemented
12:56.01rasterHeinervdm:  elementary is perfectly themable :)
12:56.24FougnerSpeedEvil, so nothing to do with my closed/open components theory?
12:56.36SpeedEvilFougner: not especially
12:56.37Heinervdmraster: so one can make a very simple theme that's faster on the gta02
12:56.51rasteryou can
12:56.59rastertho you will still have not a great speedup
12:57.08rasterits still rendering in 32bpp internally
12:57.13rasterconverting to 16bpp on display
12:57.16Fougnerbaah
12:57.17rasterunless u use the 16bpp enigne
12:57.20rasterand thats also buggy
12:57.24Fougnergah
12:57.33Heinervdmok
12:57.34rasteras it has only ever been used to do a subset of what evas does
12:57.52Fougnerraster, isn't 32bpp overkill for the FR then?
12:57.57rasterpossibly
12:58.02rasterbut thats the rendering engine for evas
12:58.11*** join/#openmoko ndrs__ (n=andres@89.100.140.238)
12:58.15rasterthe reason it can look so good even with software
12:58.29Fougnerhmm..
12:58.30rasteralso it simplifies coding and support - only have to implement 1 depth for rendering routines
12:58.36rasterconvert only as a final step
12:58.43rasterthe 16bpp runs in 16bpp internally
12:58.44Fougnerhmm, you're way out of my league.. xD
12:58.44rasterits faster
12:58.48rasterbut it drops a lot of quality
12:58.59rasteryou can notice it.. a lot
12:59.31badcloudis there a webpage with different kernels (mwester, andy, etc)?
13:00.16Fougnerbadcloud, not what I've seen
13:00.21Fougnerbut heey
13:00.32badcloudkinda hard to find them
13:00.46Fougnerwhat distros are you using on your desktop/laptop computers??
13:00.46rasterthe gta02 will be afar cry faster than the gta02
13:00.49rasterlike worlds
13:00.58badclouddebian
13:00.58rasterthe 6410 (cpu/soc/gpu etc.) in it is vaguely modern
13:01.02rastersomething "up to date"
13:01.11Fougnerraster, the gta02 will be faster than the gta02?
13:01.17Fougnerhmm :/
13:01.20rasterthe gta02 is more like a pentium-200
13:01.33rasterwhere all the other phones companies are releasing are 3ghz core2 duos
13:01.34raster:)
13:01.41rasterok not quite that bad
13:01.49Fougnerhaha
13:01.51kWHello, does anybody know whether I can load the standard kernel ( http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/releases/Om2008.12/Om2008.12-om-gta02.uImage.bin ) with Qi?
13:01.51rastermaybe a 500mhz p3
13:01.56rastervs 3ghz core 2 du's
13:01.59rasterduo's
13:02.00Fougnerraster, what distro do you use on your computer?
13:02.05rastererr i meant gta03
13:02.17Fougnerraster, yeah I figuread
13:02.19Fougnerfigured*
13:02.23rasterbut as such gta03 likely wont be so bleeding edge in many other ways
13:02.25rasterbut it will be open
13:02.26badcloudkW, I'm curious myself
13:02.27*** join/#openmoko agg1n (n=agg1n@static-87-245-9-22.teleos-web.de)
13:02.30rasteri use ubuntu
13:02.33Fougnerah
13:02.41badcloudyou could always flash back to u-boot if it can't
13:02.56kWbadcloud: well, that's not so easy
13:02.58FougnerSpeedEvil, what distro do you use?
13:03.02badcloud? why not
13:03.06kWbadcloud: I've successfully used Qi for booting newer kernels
13:03.31kWbadcloud: and now I'm analyzing a bug and checking whether that bug appears in new and old kernels
13:03.37badcloudand none of them work well with 2008.12?
13:03.47badcloudwhich bug?
13:03.52Fougnerbadcloud, what theme do you use for your machine?
13:04.02badcloudfluxbox
13:04.13kWbadcloud: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2217
13:05.50badcloudyikes
13:06.02badcloudthat looks arful, kW
13:06.07kWbadcloud: yes, it is
13:06.15*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.181)
13:06.20kWbadcloud: apparently, Qi boots with the kernel 2.6.24, but only when a battery is inserted
13:06.42badcloudgood to know
13:07.06*** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host76-59-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
13:07.32badcloudI'll give it a whirl tonight and tell you my findings
13:07.48*** join/#openmoko weihsiu (n=walter@220-134-133-103.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
13:08.24kWbadcloud: thank you :-)
13:08.56badcloudwhy don't you want to try again?
13:09.09*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.181)
13:09.52badcloudkW?
13:10.02Fougnerbadcloud, fluxbox? where can I find it?
13:10.05badcloudwhat's stopping you from trying?
13:10.23Fougnerbadcloud, his wife :O
13:10.47kWbadcloud: you mean u-boot vs. qi?
13:11.04FougnerkW, probably
13:11.04badcloudI mean, kW, why not just flash the bootloader
13:11.08Fougner:)
13:11.13badcloudand then switch back if it doesn't load
13:11.24*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.181)
13:11.40badcloudFougner, http://fluxbox.org/download/
13:11.53kWbadcloud: well, this complicates things... because when I want to boot a newer kernel, I've to switch back to Qi ... but it looks like I won't have any option
13:12.04badcloudit's in the debian repo I think
13:12.23badcloudwell, at any rate
13:12.34badcloudI'll try it around 21:00 CET
13:12.52*** join/#openmoko stephan (n=stephan@koln-4db434fb.pool.einsundeins.de)
13:12.58Fougneroh, badcloud, I meant what theme you're using, not the desktop environment :)
13:13.05badcloudohhh
13:13.08badcloudcan't remember
13:13.25Fougneranyway, I'm on ubuntu and gnome
13:14.02Fougnerbut lately I've been a little angry at ubuntu, making stuff I don't want it to do.. f****** up my sound and stuff
13:14.15badcloudI think I chose one of the builtin themes provided by fluxbox
13:14.26Fougnerso I'm thinking about wandering over to Debian
13:14.40badcloudwhat hardware are you running?
13:14.59*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.181)
13:15.12Fougnertoshiba laptop, AMD Turion 64 1.56GHz, 4GB RAM, ATI mobility radeon HD2400
13:15.20badcloudnoice
13:15.21Fougnersomething like that
13:15.26Fougnernice? :P
13:15.32SpeedEvilFougner: slackware
13:15.39badcloudI got a thinkpad r31
13:15.45FougnerSpeedEvil, HEH! You're a real haxxor then
13:15.55SpeedEvilFougner: not on the GTA01.
13:16.05SpeedEvilFougner: though I did have a go compiling slackware on it.
13:16.23FougnerSpeedEvil, don't confuse me.. you're running slack on your normal computer..
13:16.27badcloudwell, I'm off
13:16.29SpeedEvilyes
13:16.36Fougnerbadcloud, you're leaving? :(
13:16.43badcloudI could stick around
13:16.52badclouddid you want to ask something?
13:17.26FougnerIBM Thinkpad
13:17.34badcloudpentium III
13:17.42Fougner"where to buy, OfficeMax: $131.99"
13:17.49badcloud1.13 ghz
13:17.51Fougnerit's that cheap?
13:18.03badcloudgot me
13:18.11badcloudI bought mine 5 or so years ago
13:18.14Fougnerah
13:18.15Fougnerehhehe
13:18.16FougnerI c
13:18.26*** join/#openmoko cesarb_ (n=cesarb@grumari.nitnet.com.br)
13:18.28badcloudbut it runs like a charm
13:18.30Fougnerbut badcloud , as I said I'm thinking about switching to Deb
13:18.38badcloudapart from s-video
13:18.49Fougnerdo you have compiz fusion in the repos?
13:19.03badcloudcheck to see if there are good wikis for your model
13:19.15badcloud(for installing a certain distro)
13:19.29badcloudunless you reaaaaally know your shit
13:19.30Fougnerah, well, I don't like that kind of stuff
13:19.34Fougnerhaha
13:19.43Fougnerno; i'm not a real expert
13:19.56Fougnerbut installing debian shouldn't be hard
13:20.06badcloudsure
13:20.13badcloudit's quite straightforward
13:20.18badcloudyou have installer cds
13:20.19Fougnerand stable :D
13:20.23badcloudfull and net
13:20.38Fougner?
13:21.09badcloudhttp://www.debian.org/CD/
13:21.30Fougnerbadcloud, I already have the debian 5.00 DVD on my server =)
13:21.36badcloudgud
13:21.37FougnerI'm thinking about burning it
13:21.41Fougnergod? :O
13:21.45*** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@p579B8E89.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:21.46badcloudgood
13:21.48FougnerxD
13:21.54Fougnergud = god in swedish
13:21.58badcloudha
13:22.00FougnerxD
13:22.10badcloudbut I should get a bite to eat
13:22.13badcloudbe back in the evening
13:22.16badcloudlaterz
13:22.41FougnerKevin_Mitnick_-_Art_Of_Deception.torrent
13:22.58badcloudfor conmen, or serial daters?
13:23.02badcloudor both
13:23.05Fougner?
13:23.10Fougnerconmen?
13:23.13badcloudyou know, like that method man shit
13:23.19Fougnereh
13:23.32FougnerKevin Mitnick is a hacker
13:23.38Fougnerthis is social engineering stuff
13:23.44Fougner=)
13:23.45badcloudrightttt
13:23.47badcloudforgot
13:23.49FougnerxD
13:23.56badcloudI remember reading about him ages ago
13:24.08Fougnerso you're not so young? =)
13:24.12badcloud28
13:24.14badcloudyou?
13:24.16Fougner19 =)
13:24.23badcloudthere you go
13:24.26badcloudtoodles
13:24.27Fougnerhaha
13:24.30*** part/#openmoko badcloud (i=53f2186d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-cd077e41594fb638)
13:24.31Fougnertoodles?
13:24.33rasteryoung whippersnappers
13:24.37rastertoddlers
13:24.38*** join/#openmoko jonsmith1982 (n=jon@82-38-88-58.cable.ubr01.donc.blueyonder.co.uk)
13:24.44Fougnerenglish please? :P
13:24.55rastertoddlers
13:25.08Fougnerahhh
13:25.09FougnerI se
13:25.10Fougnersee
13:25.16FougnerI looked it up xD
13:25.20raster:)
13:25.24FougnerI'm not that young :O
13:26.10Fougnerhey you guys get your drivers license when we still drives our mopeds
13:26.11rasternot 19?
13:26.16raster19... toddler!
13:26.17raster:)
13:26.19Fougnernooo
13:26.21Fougner:|
13:26.27Fougnernot toddler!
13:26.33rasterrelative to me - yes.
13:26.39raster<- 33
13:26.45Fougnergah
13:27.01mirko-parolihej raste
13:27.04mirko-parolihej raster
13:27.11mirko-paroliwanna share some of your wisdom ?
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13:27.37Fougneroh btw, raster do you know about a good place to learn linux from scratch.. like, how everything's working, how I can solve problems that appear?
13:27.48Fougneryeah, raster share your wisdom =)
13:27.56Fougneran ebook maybe? =)
13:27.57SpeedEvilfind /usr/man |xargs zless
13:28.11rastermirko-paroli: you have.. maybe 2 mins
13:28.16mirko-parolihehe
13:28.18FougnerSpeedEvil, you sure?
13:28.18rasterbefore i go to snoozland
13:28.35mirko-paroliraster: I want to disable the enlightenment (or illume) config dialog
13:28.41rasterFougner: dunn. i just poke around in stuff see how it works
13:28.43mirko-parolias it overrides my config
13:28.45rasterwriting code is a good way
13:28.46rasterlots of it
13:28.47rasterc
13:28.54rasternone of this python molly-coddling
13:29.01FougnerI like c++ =)
13:29.11Fougnerbut I need to learn more of it in that case
13:29.23Fougnerhave to find a good C-book then
13:29.37mirko-paroliraster: is there a way I can do that when building an image?
13:30.04rastermirko-paroli:  no
13:30.09rasterall modules are compiled
13:30.15rasterconfig panel is a module
13:30.17rasterdisable it
13:30.25rastermake your own config profiles
13:30.26raster:)
13:30.31mirko-paroliraster: ah ok
13:30.36mirko-paroliwell I guess that helps :)
13:30.39mirko-paroliit does actually
13:30.41mirko-parolithx
13:30.42mirko-paroli:)
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13:31.56rasterFougner: learn by writing things u may think are hard
13:32.16rasterlearn to do all those things u see apps do
13:32.24rasterdo it in c so u actually have to do the os system level stuff
13:32.34rasternot al wrapped up behind 3234 layers of libs/abstraction
13:32.37rasterand u'll learn
13:32.38raster:)
13:33.15Fougnerwell, the bad thing about that is, Im
13:33.24FougnerI'm afraid of doing it the wrong way
13:33.41rasterthen do it the wrong way
13:33.43rasterfigure it out
13:33.45rastermake a mistake
13:33.46rasterlearn
13:34.14Fougnerbut maybe I should read just a little before starting out?
13:34.21rasterbah
13:34.25rasterread schmead
13:34.26raster:)
13:34.29rasterread src
13:34.30Fougnerschmead?
13:34.33rasterwant to know how it works
13:34.36rasterfind somehting that does it
13:34.37rasterread it
13:34.40rasterfollow the breadcrumbs
13:34.52raster(nd that thing calls some other lib/func - follow that src) and so on
13:34.53Fougnerraster, everyone learns different
13:35.06rasterwell thats how i did it
13:35.09rasteryou're asking me
13:35.18raster:)anyway
13:35.20rastersnooz time
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13:35.29rasterlet this egl demo run overnight - see where it ends up
13:35.30raster:)
13:35.37rastersnoozes
13:35.43SpeedEvilnight.
13:35.58leinirFougner: If you learn through reading, i can only suggest reading the original c++ book (The C++ Language), and then the book on writing beautiful code that was just released :)
13:36.26leinirhttp://www.research.att.com/~bs/C++.html
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13:38.56leinirhttp://www.amazon.com/Beautiful-Architecture-Leading-Thinkers-Software/dp/059651798X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235032618&sr=1-1
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14:25.52pJokis there a place to download the pand precompiled for the openmoko?
14:26.27Digital_PioneerPaulFertser: Ahh, I'll get around to that eventually. :)
14:29.00PaulFertserDigital_Pioneer: hm, i've already forgot what i was talking about :)
14:29.29PaulFertserDigital_Pioneer: i see now, i know the lastlog command :)
14:29.44Digital_PioneerPaulFertser: Submit bug report about ophonekitd dying on SHR unstable.
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14:55.27roolyloves zhone
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15:02.53slaxxinsurly not
15:03.47slaxxinis it the theme on the fyp release?
15:04.01slaxxinDarkStar
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15:18.53jc_raster, hello, you around :) ?
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15:32.58slaxxinhow about changing the calculator in shr thats  more readable for old people like me
15:33.05slaxxin:)
15:34.06slaxxinget rid of those bordered icons
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15:42.33Fougnerjc_, raster went so snoozland
15:42.45jc_Fougner, thanks for the info :)
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17:45.17slaxxinreinstalling a kernel every couple of days is starting to suck
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18:10.43Guilthi.
18:10.51Guiltguys, today some shit happened.
18:11.15Guiltas i tried connecting the dboard's cable in the openmoko, i noticed that because I needed to bend the cable a little, it broke.
18:11.28Guiltumm. can I get a replacement for it from my vendor?
18:12.31slaxxindangit
18:12.57Guiltumm
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18:23.37Guilthello. anyone?
18:27.01shellevilhello
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18:41.01CIA-49freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libgsm0710mux * r2c99b0f317af 10/ (7 files in 2 dirs): autogenerate .vapi file for this library
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18:49.00sylar91hi, is there any news about the new xorg glamo drivers?
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18:49.18CIA-49freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libgsm0710mux * ra78777543de4 10/src/ (consts.vala server.vala):
18:49.18CIA-49freesmartphone.org: throw error if transport type is unsupported
18:49.19CIA-49freesmartphone.org: NOTE: Right now we only support PTY since we first need to get legacy fso-abyss running again.
18:49.23Elleosylar91: you're best to look on the devel mailing list, you'll find most info there
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18:50.11sylar91Elleo: I looked some days ago but I can't understand if there is a testing distribution or something to test them...
18:50.33Elleosylar91: not that I know of, you need to build everything yourself if you want to play with it
18:50.51Elleoand if you're not planning on actually working on the driver it's probably not worth your effort at the moment
18:51.36sylar91Elleo: mmm I have read that everything is working at the moment except the xrandr extension...
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19:11.27lindi-Elleo: everything?
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19:15.09CIA-49freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libgsm0710mux * r092fcf31f56a 10/ (11 files in 3 dirs):
19:15.09CIA-49freesmartphone.org: rename src to gsm0710mux, autobuidling the vapi requires that the directory
19:15.09CIA-49freesmartphone.org: has the same name as the (later) include directory
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19:17.23alorilthis looks promising HMD (actually more than just display) (not yet available though): http://www.vuzix.com/iwear/products_wrap920av.html
19:18.34CIA-49freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * r6ed342f83393 10/ (9 files in 2 dirs): catch up with project split (see ChangeLog)
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20:08.18faltantornillosHi there. In order to get gprs working under shr do I need to follow http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPRS or http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPRS_FSO? please
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20:09.11Tig|faltantornillos,  I would guess the FSO link but have not tried it,   SHR uses FSO as a base
20:09.58faltantornillosook, thx ;)
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20:15.38DocScrutinizer2PaulFertser: ping
20:16.36PaulFertserDocScrutinizer2: pong :)
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20:31.05panickingHi all
20:31.53Tig|hi panicking
20:32.31PaulFertserpanicking: Yo
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20:35.49panickingPaulFertser: Can I ask one question on AT+CHLD=1%d /* phone id call ?*/
20:36.12PaulFertserOh, i'm afraid i won't be able to answer :) ping mickey|cinema :)
20:38.13mwesterIs mickey|cinema still at the cinema?  Must be an epic motion picture, then... :D
20:38.16PaulFertserpanicking: i usually look at enfora's documentation for reference.
20:38.26PaulFertserConceptual art, yes :)
20:38.46panickingThanks, but I don't know if it is calypso related, can you give me the link?
20:38.57panickingI just find a workaround
20:39.03mwesterPerhaps someone made a movie out of Proust's work ...
20:41.03PaulFertserpanicking: i look at http://www.enfora.com/index.cgi?CONTENT_ID=258&User:LANGUAGE=zh , it has an ok description of most commands.
20:41.12PaulFertserpanicking: +CHLD is not calypso-specific
20:41.58panickingok, sorry first a take a look at the documentation
20:43.20PaulFertserThe good thing about this pdf is that it's searchable
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20:48.39panickingperfect
20:50.17Serdarhmm should I test shr-testing oder unstable hmm
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20:53.48PaulFertserSerdar: unstable
20:54.07PaulFertserSerdar: testing is too old, current unstable will become testing soon
20:55.07Serdarsound's like debian, but in debian unstable does never change :)
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20:58.44lindi-PaulFertser: unstable is teh broken right now :)
20:58.55PaulFertserlindi-: how come?
20:59.03lindi-'apt-get source libdrm-dev' sanoo 'E: Unable to find
20:59.05lindi-<PROTECTED>
20:59.11lindi-s/sanoo/says/
20:59.51lindi-hmm, wrong bug
21:00.21lindi-ignore those lines :)
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21:03.12badcloudheyaz
21:05.17PaulFertserlindi-: do you need hcidump of working SCO (on my laptop)?
21:05.31lindi-PaulFertser: would be cool
21:05.41PaulFertserlindi-: http://pastebin.com/m6046adf6 and http://pastebin.com/mf9e09ef
21:05.46lindi-PaulFertser: ideally we should have a repository of those dumps somewhere
21:06.26lindi-PaulFertser: hmm, all those data packets have just zeroes?
21:06.47PaulFertserlindi-: not all
21:06.54lindi-well, most
21:08.18PaulFertserlindi-: btw, i haven't managed to get any sound over HCI on FR yet :( probably that's a problem of unknown configuration key in firmware.
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21:19.20PaulFertserlindi-: btw, did you know that gsm reset sysfs node has no effect on GTA02? ;)
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21:22.04steinhi, anybody know how to set up emulation of the gta02 on linux?
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21:29.20lindi-s_k: what's your goal?
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21:29.59s_kI want to emulate the freerunner so I can test the various distributions until my own unit arrives
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21:30.07s_kand to do some developement as well when I get the time
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21:31.31lindi-funny, i had exactly the same thoughts last summer
21:32.11tony_hello whats the channel for android
21:32.34DocScrutinizer2cool, irc up again
21:32.49panickingtony_: freerunnner-android
21:32.58panickingfreerunner-android
21:33.00panickingsorry
21:33.12s_klindi, so what did you do? I have tried to get qemu and openembedded to work, but none seem to play nice :(
21:33.14tony_ppanicking: thanks!
21:33.38lindi-s_k: http://iki.fi/lindi/blog has some notes
21:33.50lindi-s_k: but after a few months I switched to the one true operating system that runs on x86 too :)
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21:35.50DocScrutinizer2apt_: are you well?
21:37.00Fougner~_
21:37.01apt_ is probably ALT-255
21:37.05Fougner:D
21:37.09Fougner~_~
21:37.09aptSTOP DOING THAT!
21:37.13Fougnerhey apt_  :D
21:37.28DocScrutinizer2:D
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21:40.09s_klindi-: I tried your guide now, but same error as the qemu guide on the openmoko wiki (fails at line 91 in flash.sh)
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21:41.31strtokhey
21:41.54strtokis there way to rescue a freerunner with completely discharged battery?
21:42.17PaulFertserstrtok: yes
21:42.38strtokhow?
21:42.42PaulFertserstrtok: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_Battery#What_to_do_if_your_battery_has_become_completely_discharged
21:42.48strtokthanks
21:44.07lindi-s_k: many things have changed after that
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21:45.11s_klindi-: I guess, and 64bit kubuntu add some exceptions as well I guess
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21:46.09lindi-s_k: btw, do you know C? have you done kernel programming?
21:47.20FougnerI've done it :)
21:47.27FougnerI invented Linux ;)
21:47.35s_klindi-: nope
21:47.46lindi-s_k: python?
21:47.47Tig|You are Al Gore and I claim my £5
21:47.58lindi-s_k: git? ;)
21:48.00FougnerxD
21:48.04FougnerI'm Al Gore too
21:48.17lindi-s_k: i think we should have a poll when that you fill when you order the device ;)
21:48.22s_klindi-: basic git commands should be ok
21:48.54lindi-i'm seriously struggling with git. have to make backups to make sure you don't lose anything important
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21:53.37crazy-geekhi
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21:55.18lindi-s_k: if you have extra time. i'd spend those learning C and debugging skills, you are going to need them :)
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21:56.06s_klindi-: hehe, looking forward to it ... and in 3 months Im probably gonna hate it :)
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21:58.02lindi-s_k: depends, i hope you were prepared :)
22:00.34s_klindi-: I hoped the software had matured to a level where I could use it without doing too much low level stuff
22:00.55lindi-s_k: difficult question :)
22:01.48mwesternotes that the community has the opportunity to set the expectations of a potential new FR owner...
22:02.04s_klindi-: but even if I dont get a virtual machine to test with I hope installing and upgrading will be possible
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22:02.24lindi-s_k: depends on the distro. i am biased since i have been running debian for 6 months or so
22:03.47s_klindi-: what gui do you use with that? I was thinking about installing debian, but I would also like to try the other distros
22:04.11lindi-s_k: icewm
22:04.44s_klindi-: screenshots anywhere?
22:04.51Defiant-_try the others first and then debian and you won't be disappointed ;)
22:05.16lindi-s_k: screenshots.debian.net
22:05.32s_khehe, but the qutopia one looks good
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22:17.14ZorkmanFRITTEN
22:17.35Zorkman(dutch for "french/freedom fries")
22:17.35frittenfresser_FRESSEN
22:18.02Zorkmani ate you at lunch :)
22:19.05Wonkaviva dusseldorfia
22:20.33frittenfresser_Fritten ist German for frensh fries
22:23.08Fougnerpimmel :D
22:23.21Fougneris german too, right?
22:23.29Fougnerkäse ;)
22:23.31Fougnerhaha
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22:25.55Wonka"weener", "cheese"
22:26.17WonkaKindergarten, Rucksack are german too, btw
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22:55.44slaxxinopkg an shr arn't nice to each other
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23:02.57badcloudtrue dat
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23:22.59Slaxxernow redhat makes a deal
23:26.38badcloudanyone know how to save a contact to SIM in om 2008.12?
23:27.39slaxxinselect options?
23:30.17|Marco|son of a... my freerunner still locks up while some wireless activitys are preformed...
23:31.04badcloudslaxxin, last contact I saved seemed to be to the device, not the SIM card
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23:46.52*** topic/#openmoko is Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | Freerunner is in stock in some resellers. | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Quickstart | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems | Keyboard numbers for 2008.8 : slide finger up on the keyboard
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23:59.38|Marco|looks like I cant have GSM, GPS and WiFi active at the same time...
23:59.57lindi-|Marco|: which kernel?

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