| 00:00.10 | PaulFertser_ | Rip the old off and solder the new one. |
| 00:00.11 | baba_melone | but not with inverted pinout |
| 00:00.21 | PaulFertser_ | Jack doesn't have a pinout |
| 00:00.22 | *** part/#openmoko dougt_ (n=dougt@c-24-6-167-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:00.41 | PaulFertser_ | baba_melone: that is, you buy it and you solder it however you need it. |
| 00:01.08 | baba_melone | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:01.40 | baba_melone | the tip of my headphone's jack belongs to the right (or left?) speaker |
| 00:01.44 | PaulFertser_ | baba_melone: alternatively, you can take your converter and a razor blade. Patiently use the blade to get access to the pins. Resolder, test, apply lots of glue. |
| 00:02.14 | baba_melone | yeah, thats what i meant by [00:59] <baba_melone> and then combine it with the one I have now |
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| 00:06.09 | PaulFertser_ | baba_melone: i think the idea of the pinout used in FR is to be compatible with mono headsets. |
| 00:06.43 | baba_melone | hm |
| 00:06.47 | baba_melone | its not a problem |
| 00:07.02 | *** part/#openmoko DorX (n=freak@p5B3B2763.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:07.07 | baba_melone | i love soldering |
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| 00:08.18 | baba_melone | I just have to prevent the jack from being plugged in completely |
| 00:08.31 | baba_melone | theres no soldering necessary actually |
| 00:09.11 | PaulFertser_ | And you'll have the channels swap this way. |
| 00:10.01 | baba_melone | u mean the pinout is also left-right reversed |
| 00:10.07 | baba_melone | thats no problem |
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| 00:34.55 | PaulFertser_ | Did anyone ever got or heard about anyone who got bluetooth working over PCM (that is, used BT for GSM) on GTA02/GTA01? |
| 00:37.26 | shellevil | I recall vaguely people saying they'd gotten a2dp headphones working - however I don't recall anyone saying they'd gotten calls working. |
| 00:37.50 | shellevil | I've used external BT GPSs, which is quite different. |
| 00:38.38 | *** join/#openmoko batti (n=batti@blfd-4db0e9cd.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 00:38.41 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r13a3069efe96 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/fso_actions.py: oeventsd: use QueuedDBusAction only for triggers that really need it; RingTone for now |
| 00:38.42 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rf6ca17af5e34 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/cinterion_mc75/ (modem.py unsolicited.py): ogsmd: [CINTERON MC75] catch up with changes in ogsmd |
| 00:39.22 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rb652f9cc4efb 10/ (docs/ogsmd/lessons tools/cli-framework): tools: add cell broadcast to cli-framework |
| 00:39.33 | PaulFertser_ | shellevil: yes, i've read about a2dp, for sure. The question is about dedicated PCM interface of the BT chip. |
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| 00:43.28 | SpeedEvil | I've not heard anyone mention success on any hardware on IRC. |
| 00:43.42 | SpeedEvil | The question is if it's actually been tested/works? |
| 00:44.20 | SpeedEvil | I've heard lots of people say 'use bluetooth and there is no buzz' |
| 00:44.30 | SpeedEvil | Nobody saying 'I use bluetooth and there is no buzz' |
| 00:44.53 | SpeedEvil | I haven't kept up with the MLs though. |
| 00:45.25 | PaulFertser_ | SpeedEvil: :) |
| 00:45.50 | mickeyl | PaulFertser_: shoragan is working on it. it's his task for the next 10 days or so |
| 00:46.01 | PaulFertser_ | mickeyl: wow |
| 00:46.03 | mickeyl | [BT headset] |
| 00:46.16 | PaulFertser_ | mickeyl: do you know if he has any progress? |
| 00:46.25 | mickeyl | yes, i think he's almost finished |
| 00:46.31 | mickeyl | so far it looks good |
| 00:46.42 | mickeyl | but lets wait for him to answer before giving high hopes |
| 00:46.44 | mickeyl | :) |
| 00:47.08 | mickeyl | we're adding one or two convenience calls to FSO |
| 00:47.13 | mickeyl | to setup/teardown everything |
| 00:47.33 | PaulFertser_ | mickeyl: i'm interested more in how it's done on hardware layer. Does he route audio over PCM? |
| 00:48.08 | mickeyl | yes |
| 00:48.17 | mickeyl | (and that's about all i know) |
| 00:48.49 | PaulFertser_ | mickeyl: ok, thanks a lot for the info. |
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| 01:01.49 | PaulFertser_ | mickeyl: do you by any chance know if he is using bluez 4.x API? |
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| 01:02.12 | Arg0naut | openmoko-cdevel |
| 01:02.33 | mickeyl | PaulFertser_: yes |
| 01:02.40 | PaulFertser_ | Cool |
| 01:02.41 | mickeyl | i said we're going bluez4 |
| 01:02.49 | mickeyl | it's da futured ;) |
| 01:02.56 | mickeyl | err, future |
| 01:03.23 | mickeyl | i consider bluez4 being a part of FSO-noncore |
| 01:03.28 | mickeyl | (architecture, that is) |
| 01:03.30 | mickeyl | same as connman |
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| 01:04.52 | PaulFertser_ | Moreover, it doesn't seem that bluez 3.x is actively developed anymore. |
| 01:05.10 | mickeyl | yes |
| 01:05.16 | mickeyl | Marcel dropped it |
| 01:06.39 | PaulFertser_ | Too bad so many old docs left, that's confusing as hell. Even some test programs in the sources are not valid anymore :) |
| 01:07.26 | mwester | plus it's all full of that flawed thinking that somehow cryptic dbus signals (which you are supposed to generate by some black magic) replace config files. |
| 01:07.56 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 01:08.00 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 01:08.24 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: btw, i thought about why we disagree about FR and stuff and i think i found the root reason |
| 01:09.03 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: To put it simple, it's because i like Jack Kerouac's books and you don't ;) |
| 01:09.31 | *** join/#openmoko tombhadAC (n=tombhad@pD95DD6B8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:09.38 | mwester | I guess you're wrong there, because I have no idea who that is. |
| 01:09.42 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: that is, i don't think that one needs a new shiny smartphone for happiness/peace at all. |
| 01:10.30 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: i'd buy a used n-gage or smth if i needed this functionality. |
| 01:11.20 | mwester | If it makes you feel better to attempt to reduce other's motivations to such trivia, then you and I truely have nothing at all in common. |
| 01:11.27 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kerouac |
| 01:15.31 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: i don't attempt to reduce anyone's motivation. It's just i don't feel like it makes sense to be motivated to have a smartphone. I consider "the road" to be of far more importance than "the destination". Hacking together is the road for me, and having a working smartphone is the destination. |
| 01:16.33 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: "attempt to reduce other's motivations to such trivia" i misread. |
| 01:17.44 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: i don't try to do that, of course. It's just that between having a working smartphone and hacking i'd always choose hacking. |
| 01:21.35 | orzo | if you have a working smart phone, you can hack on bigger and better things |
| 01:22.05 | PaulFertser_ | orzo: not if it runs qtopia :p |
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| 01:40.40 | ashbert | has the VoiceNotes app on qtopia ext-4.4.2 worked for anyone on gta 01 ? |
| 01:41.05 | ashbert | in my case, it just creates a wav file of 44bytes ... with nothing in it |
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| 02:19.17 | jrodger | When trying to install Om2008.12"only GTA01 hardware supported by AS0c driver?" |
| 02:19.27 | jrodger | what is wrong? |
| 02:19.42 | PaulFertser_ | jrodger: trying to install gta01 image on gta02? |
| 02:20.21 | vininim | anyway to make speech-dispatcher work together with other apps? |
| 02:20.36 | jrodger | Om2008.12-gta02..... |
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| 02:41.53 | slaxxin | welp i went to carthage Mo. today an took a look at the con-agra turkey plant that makes boiler oil from turkey scrap at the butterball turkey plant |
| 02:42.17 | slaxxin | it looked extememly complex |
| 02:43.15 | slaxxin | i have pictures |
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| 02:44.58 | mwester | Some parts of "being green" I just don't wanna know about!!! :P |
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| 02:45.45 | slaxxin | yup |
| 02:45.52 | slaxxin | ok |
| 02:46.56 | mwester | At least we can't preserve smells yet; I imagine such a process must smell as bad as it sounds! |
| 02:47.12 | slaxxin | the process is capable of using any waste stream except radioactive |
| 02:47.30 | slaxxin | nope it has the latest scrubbers on it |
| 02:47.52 | slaxxin | i couldnt smell any bad smells at all |
| 02:48.14 | slaxxin | depolmerization |
| 02:49.26 | slaxxin | 500f 600psi then straight to a vacume chamber all takes very little time |
| 02:49.51 | slaxxin | it just breaks even with no subsides |
| 02:51.34 | slaxxin | its said that non-recyclables an sewage will do the same thing |
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| 02:54.51 | mwester | wonders if gta02s would "recycle" |
| 02:56.00 | slaxxin | refrigerators all plastics pretty much everything |
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| 03:22.54 | Dave | hehe |
| 03:23.31 | slaxxin | SuperDave |
| 03:28.22 | CVirus | davey |
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| 03:37.10 | slaxxin | http://www.daveyandgoliath.org/snowboard/index.html |
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| 03:51.27 | Dave | :D |
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| 04:02.07 | slaxxin | http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/NeoFreeRunner/WebHome |
| 04:03.01 | slaxxin | fso milestone 5.5 |
| 04:03.11 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:10.12 | Dave | 5.5? |
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| 04:15.39 | slaxxin | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates/February_20%2C_2009 |
| 04:16.19 | slaxxin | FSO meets paroli-for a fully functional paroli, FSO team came up with fso milestone 5.5. FSO MS 5.5 will contains everything needed by paroli. |
| 04:16.44 | slaxxin | so its not ready yet i guess |
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| 04:57.56 | ecloud_home | ok I'm back |
| 04:58.01 | ecloud_home | boot_usb built |
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| 05:01.19 | ecloud_home | ./boot_usb read 0x60800 2048 kct |
| 05:01.39 | ecloud_home | got something |
| 05:03.29 | ecloud_home | oops wrong channel :-) |
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| 06:47.08 | kd8ikt | /exec ifconfig |
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| 06:52.40 | Dave | :P |
| 06:54.13 | lewis | I have tested koolus beta 3 and OM testing |
| 06:54.30 | lewis | the major issue for me is the "never resume" with WSOD |
| 06:54.48 | lewis | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:55.02 | lewis | tks |
| 06:55.32 | imrehg | lewis: have you tried any of the images on http://panicking.kicks-ass.org/download/ |
| 06:55.52 | imrehg | they are working on the android on freerunner, and seem to have quite a bit of success |
| 06:56.28 | imrehg | people report all sorts of cool things on their mailing list, too bad I haven't had time to check it yet |
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| 06:58.37 | imrehg | lewis: here's the forum that has most of the info about their things: http://forum.koolu.org/viewforum.php?f=10 |
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| 06:59.41 | lewis | yep, I know, thank you. but i dont like web forum format |
| 07:00.22 | lewis | ok, thanks for your efforts |
| 07:00.33 | lewis | just to report, maybe |
| 07:00.41 | lewis | :) |
| 07:01.44 | lewis | I will try those paniicking.kiick-ass image |
| 07:02.08 | lewis | but i think that is not only an Android issue |
| 07:02.46 | imrehg | it feels like it is very interconnected |
| 07:03.11 | imrehg | like Qi issues that don't show up in OM images cause trouble in android, and sometimes vice-versa |
| 07:03.18 | lewis | maybe some firmware... I would like to buy a debug board |
| 07:03.45 | imrehg | i mentioned it to you, because they do successful suspense - resume, and sort... |
| 07:03.57 | imrehg | yeah, debug board would help :) |
| 07:04.06 | lewis | :) |
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| 07:04.11 | imrehg | depending on how deep one wants to dive in... |
| 07:05.25 | lewis | yep |
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| 07:07.17 | lewis | sometimes WSOD bug disappear, but it looks like recurrent... I hope that it is a different cause each time that it appear |
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| 07:43.03 | PaulFertser_ | Hey :) can at least two people with GTA02 and at least one with GTA01 provide me with their "hciconfig hci0 revision |grep SCO\ mapping" (with bluetooth enabled). |
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| 07:52.53 | Defiant- | Anyone tried netsurf yet? |
| 07:55.01 | PaulFertser_ | Defiant-: can you please help me? |
| 07:55.09 | Defiant- | PaulFertser_: still booting... |
| 07:55.28 | PaulFertser_ | Ok, i didn't try netsurf btw. |
| 07:56.34 | Defiant- | PaulFertser_: SCO mapping: PCM |
| 07:56.37 | Defiant- | GTA02 |
| 07:57.15 | PaulFertser_ | Defiant-: cool thanks. I think that's the same for everybody. Now i wonder about GTA01. |
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| 08:05.54 | gfather | hello guys |
| 08:06.39 | *** join/#openmoko Zic (n=zic@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.zic) |
| 08:06.47 | gfather | anyone thought of using real time os ? |
| 08:07.53 | PaulFertser_ | I wonder if anybody has ever routed SCO (not A2DP) over hci usb on FreeRunner. |
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| 08:15.59 | Defiant- | ok, netsurf doesn't feel bad |
| 08:20.15 | billk | PaulFertser_: root@om-gta02 ~ $ hciconfig hci0 revision |grep SCO\ mapping |
| 08:20.15 | billk | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:20.15 | billk | root@om-gta02 ~ $ |
| 08:20.28 | PaulFertser_ | billk: thanks :) |
| 08:27.18 | spaetz | morning |
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| 08:49.02 | PaulFertser_ | lpotter: ping |
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| 10:11.14 | jrodger | I am really concerned, I have a FR running qi-s3c2442, but each time I try install Om2008.12 I get an error about AS0c drviers only working on a GTA01 device????? |
| 10:11.36 | henk | normal afaict |
| 10:12.19 | jrodger | ? |
| 10:13.13 | henk | does it stop booting? or does it continue and boot normal? |
| 10:13.15 | Wonka | it's ASoC, nor? "alsa system on chip" |
| 10:14.42 | jrodger | it stops booting, I am really interestied in trying Om2008.12 FDOM is too bloated for normal use |
| 10:15.24 | PaulFertser_ | jrodger: OM2008.12 has no future, do you know about that? |
| 10:16.07 | mirko-paroli | jrodger: PaulFertser_ is right rather try an om unstable or FSO MS5 |
| 10:16.17 | PaulFertser_ | jrodger: or SHR |
| 10:16.29 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser_: hehe :) true or that one |
| 10:17.15 | PaulFertser_ | mirko-paroli: btw, it'd be cool if you helped Debian folks to package Paroli. ;) |
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| 10:17.42 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser_: I would love to and also to get the remaining e packages just not sure if I can contribute anything, got a name? |
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| 10:18.52 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser_: or a channel? |
| 10:18.53 | jrodger | I tried SHR, I liked it but was concerned about the lack of sound..... |
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| 10:19.46 | PaulFertser_ | mirko-paroli: i think you can contact nomeata here or write a mail to pkg-fso mailing list and if you mention all the components needed to run paroli i hope you'll get an answer. I'm not using E yet, so can't say much more about it. I think you can find them also at #openmoko-debian |
| 10:20.08 | PaulFertser_ | jrodger: lack of sound? It works for everybody with SHR. Get shr unstable, get corresponding kernel. |
| 10:20.18 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser_: cool thx will try :) |
| 10:20.44 | PaulFertser_ | mirko-paroli: it will really widen the target audience because not everybody likes running OE-based distro, you know :) |
| 10:21.14 | Wonka | SHR rocks. mostly. |
| 10:21.17 | mirko-paroli | PaulFertser_: yepp i do know :) didn't give it a shot yet (debian that is) because of the lack of packages |
| 10:21.25 | Wonka | debian is not bad too |
| 10:21.43 | Wonka | in some sorts more usable actually |
| 10:22.04 | Wonka | i have debian running most of the time, actually |
| 10:22.23 | Wonka | for IRC over SSH over GPRS and some GPS |
| 10:22.34 | jrodger | how do I identify the unstable release? |
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| 10:24.06 | PaulFertser_ | jrodger: it's called unstable :) |
| 10:29.10 | jrodger | PaulFertser_:I could not see the bin file in Unstable......am I blind? |
| 10:30.01 | PaulFertser_ | jrodger: http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/ |
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| 10:30.50 | jrodger | PaulFertser_: just using the "latest" bin, correct? |
| 10:31.07 | PaulFertser_ | jrodger: ah, you're talking about the kernel. |
| 10:31.34 | jrodger | yes |
| 10:31.35 | PaulFertser_ | jrodger: then yes, there's only one there anyway :) "latest" is most probably a symlink. |
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| 10:32.35 | Wonka | hrm. |
| 10:32.58 | Wonka | is there any way to start qi without flashing it to the u-boot partition? |
| 10:33.13 | Wonka | (without using debugboard) |
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| 10:33.59 | Wonka | and: does the u-boot in NOR use the u-boot_env partition? |
| 10:34.10 | lindi- | Wonka: no |
| 10:34.19 | lindi- | Wonka: otherwise you could brick it? |
| 10:34.54 | Wonka | lindi-: ok, yes. but what config does it use? |
| 10:35.53 | lindi- | Wonka: one in the NOR |
| 10:35.58 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: i think you can start qi after downloading it to RAM via dfu. |
| 10:36.13 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: but i don't see a reason why that can be needed. |
| 10:36.19 | Wonka | lindi-: any way to read that config |
| 10:36.29 | lindi- | Wonka: sure |
| 10:36.44 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: i'd like to play with qi and a small kernel designed to choose another kernel to kexec |
| 10:36.55 | lindi- | $ grep 0000 *wiki|grep -i nor |
| 10:36.55 | lindi- | Neo_FreeRunner_Memory_Mapping.wiki:nCS0: 00000000 07FFFFFF 4K steppingstone or NOR (Aux held down) <br> |
| 10:36.59 | lindi- | Neo_FreeRunner_Memory_Mapping.wiki:nCS3: 18000000 1FFFFFFF NOR <br> |
| 10:37.19 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: u-boot in NOR always uses the same config and some steps on boot. I think i can find it in the sources if you really need it. |
| 10:37.41 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: but flashing Qi to your u-boot partition doesn't affect u-boot environment anyway. |
| 10:38.00 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: i just want to be sure i can somehow boot my debian even if i damaged my NAND bootloader |
| 10:38.05 | lindi- | Wonka: so at least in kernel land you can ioremap(0x18000000, 0x1FFFFFFF) and read it |
| 10:38.11 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: but you can always flash u-boot back |
| 10:38.16 | Wonka | anyway, i could just reflash u-boot |
| 10:38.17 | Wonka | yes |
| 10:38.19 | lindi- | Wonka: not sure if /dev/mem suffices |
| 10:38.22 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: using NOR that you can't damage |
| 10:38.23 | Wonka | via nor u-boot |
| 10:38.42 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: one can read nor u-boot via /dev/mtd0 |
| 10:39.05 | Wonka | ah, yes. but not write. |
| 10:39.07 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: really? |
| 10:40.00 | lindi- | hmm, by holding aux on bootup? |
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| 10:40.14 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: no, just anytime |
| 10:40.22 | Wonka | hexdump -C /dev/mtdblock0 | less, /boot |
| 10:40.24 | Wonka | works |
| 10:40.35 | Wonka | finds stuff looking like u-boot internals |
| 10:41.03 | lindi- | Wonka: but that can be the nand uboot |
| 10:41.33 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: no |
| 10:41.46 | lindi- | to which one? ;) |
| 10:41.56 | Wonka | was there a GTA02v6 in July 2008? |
| 10:42.01 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: that can't be nand u-boot, as it's read from NOR :) |
| 10:42.10 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: really? |
| 10:42.40 | Wonka | there's "Defaulting to GTA02v6" in mtdblock0... |
| 10:42.44 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: but i thought you could upgrade nand uboot by writing to mtdblock0 |
| 10:43.03 | lindi- | Wonka: what's the version number? |
| 10:43.20 | Wonka | lindi-: of what? |
| 10:43.26 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: to mtdblock1 |
| 10:43.28 | lindi- | I do sudo strings /dev/mtdblock0 | grep ^U-Boot | head -n1 |
| 10:43.34 | lindi- | to get my u-boot version number |
| 10:43.47 | lindi- | it says 'U-Boot 1.3.2-moko12 (May 9 2008 - 10:28:48)' |
| 10:43.51 | Wonka | U-Boot 1.3.2-moko12 (May 9 2008 - 10:28:48) |
| 10:44.15 | Wonka | mtdblock1: |
| 10:44.16 | Wonka | U-Boot 1.3.2-moko12 (Sep 16 2008 - 09:53:49) |
| 10:44.19 | Wonka | different. |
| 10:44.36 | Wonka | so, mtdblock0 clearly is NOR, and not NAND. |
| 10:45.38 | Wonka | i want to have some qi that does _nothing_ than loading and booting a kernel image from nand flash. |
| 10:46.00 | Wonka | (and the stuff absolutely necessary before that) |
| 10:46.26 | lindi- | Wonka: what do you read from mtdblock1? |
| 10:46.34 | Wonka | lindi-: see above |
| 10:47.14 | lindi- | Wonka: but you read from mtdblock0? |
| 10:47.16 | lindi- | ah |
| 10:47.49 | Wonka | that kernel should take care of initializing the rest, search for bootable configs, maybe have the user choose one, and kexec the appropriate kernel |
| 10:47.50 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: i think you'll need to modify Qi for that because it will try to boot from uSD before NAND. |
| 10:48.01 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: then i will |
| 10:48.13 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: qi should not even try to access uSD, IMO. |
| 10:48.26 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: why don't you like that it tries to access uSD? |
| 10:48.45 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: "linux can do it better". |
| 10:48.59 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: better access uSD? |
| 10:49.04 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: boot a small linux to display a boot menu and kexec the kernel |
| 10:49.20 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: keep qi simple and stupid |
| 10:49.30 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: i understand the idea and like it. But there's one thing you need to know. |
| 10:49.32 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: keep complexity that linux needs anyway only in linux |
| 10:49.46 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: GTA03 will have only uSD boot. |
| 10:49.58 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: aaargh. the stupidity. |
| 10:50.13 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: how much flash does the GTA03 SOC have? |
| 10:50.15 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: not the stupidity. Maintainability and predictability. |
| 10:50.27 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: do not know yet. |
| 10:50.48 | lindi- | Wonka: it's quite easy to brick Qi if it only accesses NAND, right? |
| 10:50.51 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: if it's 4MB, its enough for qi and that stepstone kernel |
| 10:51.07 | Wonka | lindi-: that's what we have NOR for, nor? |
| 10:51.19 | lindi- | Wonka: so you want it to only access NOR? |
| 10:51.19 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: the thing is: they are going to even start Qi from uSD. SoC will fetch Qi from uSD automatically afaik. |
| 10:51.31 | lindi- | Wonka: or you want that u-boot will be shipped too? |
| 10:51.32 | Wonka | lindi-: via nor you can repair qi and its kernel |
| 10:51.51 | Wonka | lindi-: not necessarily u-boot but an dfu-thingie |
| 10:52.15 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: but with GTA03 you don't even need a NOR. Just plug uSD in any cardreader and do what you want. |
| 10:52.22 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: whee. will it have one or two usd slots? |
| 10:52.27 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: no :( |
| 10:53.09 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: meh. separation of system and data impossible? |
| 10:53.26 | Wonka | ok, now i have debian on usd too, next to my data... |
| 10:53.34 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: why? Partition your uSD however you like it. |
| 10:54.06 | Wonka | how much trouble putting qi the right way on a uSD? |
| 10:54.19 | Wonka | will, e.g., windows damage it? |
| 10:54.32 | Wonka | (end users...) |
| 10:54.58 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: i don't think windows will damage it, though i don't care |
| 10:55.39 | Wonka | i soooo like this concept... undamageable NOR dfu update util, boot loader and small but usable system for gsm, gps, gprs, ssh in nand, debian on uSD... |
| 10:56.11 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: I for me don't care either. but End Users[tm] should not easily damage it, or they will not want to use it |
| 10:56.35 | Wonka | a phone that does not work after you removed the SD card is... somehow stupid, IMO. |
| 10:56.36 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: i'm sick of end users. I'd better pay more for hardware. |
| 10:57.00 | Wonka | the more End Users are interested in the same hardware as you, the less you pay |
| 10:57.24 | Wonka | and i am a) interested in paying less, and b) interested in having more people pay less for better stuff |
| 10:57.41 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: no, NAND is expensive and SD not. Think of it. I've recently removed internal GPS antennae and forgot to plug it back. Wondered why gps is not working :) Who's at fault? ;) |
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| 10:58.22 | Wonka | _that_ is obviously your fault |
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| 10:59.06 | Wonka | i want an uSD slot for system, and a SDIO capable externally accessible SDHC slot for data. |
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| 10:59.14 | Wonka | can't be that hard, can it? |
| 10:59.20 | lindi- | Wonka: external usb sd card reader? ;) |
| 10:59.43 | Wonka | lindi-: can't put that in my pocket together |
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| 10:59.56 | Wonka | lindi-: don't want any stuff clinging to my mobile |
| 11:00.09 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: i think it's hard because S3C has only one SD interface probably. |
| 11:00.25 | lindi- | i'd be totally happy with only one uSD |
| 11:00.47 | lindi- | but i'd like to have some extra AVR chip inside the case :) |
| 11:01.01 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: having usb host provides you with much more than SDIO |
| 11:01.03 | lindi- | and a second usb port for charging would be cool too |
| 11:01.05 | Wonka | lindi-: i'd be happy with only one uSD, and happier with an additional SD slot |
| 11:01.29 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: i don't necessarily need SDIO, but it opens possibilities. |
| 11:01.32 | PaulFertser_ | Looks like GTA03 is more consumer-oriented therefore we won't be happy with it anyway |
| 11:01.40 | Wonka | data SD access via USB would be fine too |
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| 11:02.09 | Wonka | and having some bus to connect stuff... |
| 11:02.35 | Wonka | at least one free internal usb port ... |
| 11:02.39 | Wonka | s2c |
| 11:02.44 | Wonka | er. |
| 11:02.46 | Wonka | i2c |
| 11:03.32 | lindi- | Wonka: leaving empty space inside the case if of course not something that usually is wanted |
| 11:03.55 | Wonka | alternate back plate? |
| 11:04.10 | lindi- | maybe |
| 11:04.13 | Wonka | and in gta02 there seems to be enough space for an internal debug board... |
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| 11:04.43 | Wonka | you need to be able to attach stuff somewhere first... |
| 11:05.19 | Wonka | hm, watertight moko with enough air in it to swim |
| 11:07.49 | Wonka | but still, if qi just booted a small bootloader linux, then that one could do so much stuff so much better |
| 11:08.13 | Wonka | you could even edit kernel commandlines via on-screen keyboard |
| 11:08.32 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: to my understanding GTA03 will look for bootloader at the end of SD card, that should be left unpartitioned. So i see no problems with any os here. |
| 11:08.40 | PaulFertser_ | (end should be unpartitioned) |
| 11:08.50 | Wonka | mhmh |
| 11:09.41 | Wonka | well, most of my genious plan is still possible :) |
| 11:10.21 | Wonka | hrm, how big has grub2 gotten, by the way? |
| 11:10.22 | henk | windows users will likely damage that... doesn't qi fit in the mbr? |
| 11:10.50 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: yes, but i see no reason to trim Qi to disallow reading from uSD. Moreover you can use it for debugging your initramfs by placing the kernel with initramfs to uSD. |
| 11:10.51 | Wonka | windows users will possibe damage anything they can write to |
| 11:11.18 | PaulFertser_ | henk: i've just told you where the Qi is written according to 6410-partition-sd.sh |
| 11:11.31 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: there is no reason to disallow qi reading from usd if gta03 will require that |
| 11:11.44 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: :) |
| 11:12.09 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: i just think the NOR / NAND / uSD stuff was a very good and very stable idea |
| 11:12.29 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: probably yes... I won't argue on that one. |
| 11:12.38 | henk | PaulFertser_: don't start again, will you? ;) |
| 11:12.56 | Wonka | but then, if SoC directly reads bootloader from end of uSD, that's also quite unbreakable |
| 11:13.04 | PaulFertser_ | henk: why not? :p |
| 11:13.08 | Wonka | and if uSD is defective, exchange it. |
| 11:13.20 | PaulFertser_ | henk: but Qi is not placed in MBR according to the script |
| 11:13.35 | henk | Wonka: it's unbreakable? how abot someone repartitioning the usd? |
| 11:13.36 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: until SoC sucks at reading shitty uSDs |
| 11:14.00 | PaulFertser_ | henk: repartition it again and that's all :) You don't break hardware by partitioning. |
| 11:14.12 | henk | PaulFertser_: i know, you said that you said so ;) i just wonder why it's not in the mbr... |
| 11:14.18 | Wonka | henk: not permanently breakable. you will always get it back into a working state without special hardware tools. |
| 11:14.26 | Wonka | henk: without JTAG and stuff |
| 11:14.35 | henk | yeah thats true |
| 11:14.47 | Wonka | you don't even need DFU |
| 11:14.49 | PaulFertser_ | henk: MBR is 512 bytes only, you know |
| 11:14.50 | henk | not bricked but broken |
| 11:15.06 | henk | PaulFertser_: yes. but grub fits doesn't it? |
| 11:15.06 | Wonka | ah, ok. that's the word i missed using :) |
| 11:15.14 | Wonka | henk: haha. stage1 fits. |
| 11:15.29 | Wonka | henk: then loads stage1.5 from sectors 1 to n |
| 11:15.36 | Wonka | henk: then loads stage2 from fs |
| 11:16.22 | PaulFertser_ | MBR is not the safest place anyway, too many programs like to touch it unlike the end of uSD :) |
| 11:16.45 | Wonka | (or does stage1 load sectorlist from sector written into stage1, and then stage1.5 from sectorlist, and then stage2 from fs? something like that...) |
| 11:16.47 | henk | Wonka: ah, right... |
| 11:17.37 | henk | PaulFertser_: but repartitioning the usd would include the end of usd in a partition, which breaks the bootloader. apart from that i'd say that keeping stuff in unpartitioned space is broken by design... |
| 11:18.13 | PaulFertser_ | henk: i can't imagine a better scheme though. |
| 11:18.53 | PaulFertser_ | henk: the idea is that you can easily fix the boot without hardware and software. Without NOR in every device, etc. |
| 11:18.55 | henk | PaulFertser_: use primary partition #4 instead of unpartitioned space? |
| 11:19.15 | PaulFertser_ | henk: what if a user repartition that too? ;) |
| 11:19.32 | Wonka | PaulFertser_: bad user. |
| 11:19.44 | Wonka | include the space into any partition |
| 11:19.48 | Wonka | at least |
| 11:19.59 | Wonka | should be doable independently |
| 11:20.14 | Wonka | iirc windows shifted around partitions on me once |
| 11:20.28 | Wonka | so that primary 3 suddenly was primary 2 and 2 was 3 |
| 11:20.30 | henk | PaulFertser_: if he doesn't know what it's for he shouldn't delete it. but if he doesn't know something's there at all, he is likely to just maximize his partition. |
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| 11:21.23 | PaulFertser_ | henk: ok, you can partition it like that if you like, SoC won't care anyway ;) |
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| 11:21.43 | henk | PaulFertser_: ah good. |
| 11:23.20 | Wonka | SoC reading directly from uSD sounds overly complex to me anyway |
| 11:24.01 | PaulFertser_ | Wonka: i don't trust it's ROM bootloader because it can just randomly not like some cards. But anyway... Ask Andy ;) |
| 11:24.15 | Wonka | i'd accept having some (updatable, even if over jtag) code in some flash to read bootloader more easily |
| 11:24.33 | Wonka | same reasons |
| 11:24.42 | Wonka | and maybe some more, don't know |
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| 12:02.23 | deepsight1 | i just installed SHR but i've got no keyboard, in settings i just get none and default so i select default but nothing shows up |
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| 12:53.15 | billk | With the contacts on SHR - how do you new contacts? - I cant move |
| 12:53.37 | billk | to the second window to enter the actual number! |
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| 13:23.12 | Daverix | Hi, what is now the best distribution for just calling and sms? The official 2008.12? |
| 13:24.02 | Defiant- | probably qtopia |
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| 13:25.40 | Daverix | if I have a dist on my sd-card and using Qi, there is no way to switch to the installed dist on the phones memory? |
| 13:26.53 | Daverix | using qtopia on my sd-card but want to test other dists on the phones memory |
| 13:27.01 | Daverix | and using Qi |
| 13:27.09 | Daverix | is ot possible? |
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| 13:43.51 | PBeck | ahoi |
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| 13:44.28 | lindi- | Daverix: chroot? |
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| 13:48.06 | Zoup | have you ever experienced illume on debian? keyboard seems half opened |
| 13:49.08 | Daverix | how do I use chroot? :) |
| 13:49.45 | henk | Daverix: you can skip boot possibilities with aux button in qi |
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| 13:50.50 | henk | Daverix: not in qry please |
| 13:51.42 | Daverix | qry? |
| 13:53.01 | henk | query |
| 13:53.01 | Daverix | i read that you must implement your own boot loader if you want to use Qi? Then it's only possible to boot from one dist at the moment if not one dist has a boot option? |
| 13:53.16 | henk | no. qi tries sd partition 3, then 2, then 1, then nand |
| 13:53.25 | henk | read the wikipage about qi |
| 13:53.50 | Daverix | but if I have a dist on my sd-card and want to boot from nand? |
| 13:54.00 | Daverix | i have |
| 13:54.20 | henk | then read it again |
| 13:54.25 | Daverix | there is no boot loader |
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| 13:54.43 | Zoup | Daverix: boot using NOR |
| 13:55.32 | henk | Daverix: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qi#Choosing_a_Kernel |
| 13:57.40 | Daverix | aha! now i get it :) |
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| 14:04.49 | henk | Daverix: :) |
| 14:07.14 | henk | uhm wtf? 'stop and exit zhone' shuts the device down? |
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| 14:35.55 | stra | spaetz: what FSO version is the current unstable release of SHR using? |
| 14:37.37 | mrmoku | stra: its based on the fso/milestone5 branch of openembedded... for frameworkd SHR is using AUTOREV aka current HEAD |
| 14:38.34 | *** part/#openmoko sylar91 (n=sylar@83.225.74.170) |
| 14:38.37 | mrmoku | stra: you can check the installed packages in http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/openmoko-shr-lite-image-glibc-ipk--20090218-om-gta02-testlab/installed-packages.txt |
| 14:40.30 | stra | mrkoku, thank you for the info |
| 14:40.41 | stra | mkmoku: what exactly is your role in SHR? |
| 14:41.13 | mrmoku | stra: don't know :-) doing this and that... |
| 14:41.31 | mrmoku | looking after the buildhost is one thing of that |
| 14:43.17 | stra | i think I will give shr a try |
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| 14:44.39 | stra | hope to get a chat with spaetz, he lives just 20min from me |
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| 15:03.04 | cga | 0ffrf/exi |
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| 15:29.21 | sylar91 | hi, I have a pygame issue, anybody could help me please? |
| 15:31.03 | PaulFertser_ | lpotter: ping |
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| 15:35.23 | |Marco| | sylar91: what's the problem ? |
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| 15:36.28 | sylar91 | |Marco|: when I create a window it fills with the black color the part of the screen unused by pygame |
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| 16:10.53 | slaxxin | feb 18 andys tracking |
| 16:11.00 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:11.57 | slaxxin | i guess i have damaged Qi |
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| 16:22.23 | baba_melone_ | Hi, Ive got a question to the openmoko toolchain |
| 16:22.54 | baba_melone_ | Ive downloaded the most recent one and followed the steps from the wiki page about the toolchain |
| 16:22.56 | *** join/#openmoko Yashy (n=yashy@mail.improfessional.com) |
| 16:23.22 | baba_melone_ | but there is no file opkg-target in the archive I downloaded |
| 16:23.35 | baba_melone_ | only opkg-key and opkg-cl |
| 16:24.12 | *** part/#openmoko jlmoko (n=jluis@149.Red-83-45-209.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 16:25.57 | elserpiente | run . ./setup-env |
| 16:26.06 | baba_melone_ | i did |
| 16:26.21 | baba_melone_ | I also run fine /usr/local/openmoko -name opkg-target |
| 16:26.28 | elserpiente | and add path |
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| 16:26.34 | baba_melone_ | I did |
| 16:26.43 | baba_melone_ | find didnt return any results |
| 16:26.53 | baba_melone_ | so opkg-target doesnt exist |
| 16:27.20 | elserpiente | should exist |
| 16:27.24 | elserpiente | re check all |
| 16:27.42 | baba_melone_ | it doesnt exist Ive tried it several times now |
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| 16:28.09 | elserpiente | sorry, try that . /usr/local/openmoko/arm/environment-setup |
| 16:28.44 | baba_melone_ | you dont seem to understand. find doesnt find any file or directory named opkg-target |
| 16:29.07 | baba_melone_ | so whatever I would add to my path, it doesnt come into existence |
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| 16:32.02 | elserpiente | dunno, haven't thought about that before :) |
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| 16:32.46 | elserpiente | after environment-setup, opk-target appears at my |
| 16:32.57 | baba_melone_ | hm |
| 16:33.09 | baba_melone_ | what version of the toolchain do you have |
| 16:33.42 | elserpiente | http://downloads.openmoko.org/developer/toolchains/openmoko-i686-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2 |
| 16:34.27 | baba_melone_ | yeah, thats the one I have |
| 16:34.38 | baba_melone_ | so youvve got the latest |
| 16:34.44 | elserpiente | yep |
| 16:34.49 | baba_melone_ | because this file is actually no file but a link |
| 16:35.24 | baba_melone_ | can you give me the md5 sum |
| 16:35.47 | baba_melone_ | mine is 85b479850768a851847f33cee4584d79 |
| 16:35.56 | baba_melone_ | of the bzipped archieve |
| 16:38.01 | elserpiente | i've deleted it :) |
| 16:38.12 | baba_melone_ | hm, k |
| 16:39.04 | baba_melone_ | when did you download it |
| 16:39.26 | elserpiente | two days ago |
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| 16:39.31 | baba_melone_ | oh |
| 16:39.44 | baba_melone_ | ill give it another try |
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| 16:44.29 | elserpiente | baba_melone_ : opkg-target is alias |
| 16:44.31 | elserpiente | alias opkg-target='LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/openmoko/arm/lib /usr/local/openmoko/arm/bin/opk |
| 16:44.41 | elserpiente | look at /usr/local/openmoko/arm/setup-env |
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| 16:47.28 | *** part/#openmoko |Lynx| (n=lynx@lebt.im.ueberwachungsstaat.info) |
| 16:48.51 | lindi- | hmm, is it possible that ram contents is preserved over poweroff? |
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| 16:52.25 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: yes, for some time |
| 16:52.28 | SpeedEvil | There is a near-zero power mode which will. |
| 16:52.33 | SpeedEvil | Self-refresh of RAM. |
| 16:52.39 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: this is biting me. i have a circular log buffer |
| 16:52.41 | SpeedEvil | Even without that, data may persist for some seconds. |
| 16:53.10 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: even without power SDRAM stores its contents for some time. Especially when it's cold. |
| 16:53.12 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: it is recognized by some magic numbers. those magic numbers seemed to survive poweroff but the contents of the log is full of garbage |
| 16:53.36 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: now it takes 5 minutes for it to dump this random garbage to my screen :) |
| 16:53.37 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: how long do you keep it in poweroff? |
| 16:53.47 | lindi- | probably around 5 seconds |
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| 16:54.03 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: then preserving some sdram contents is normal |
| 16:54.13 | lindi- | kind of interesting |
| 16:54.31 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: there's a security research paper about, made a lot of fuss. |
| 16:54.35 | *** part/#openmoko Siph0n (n=Siph0n@ip68-99-198-225.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 16:54.41 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: so if the phone does not come out of suspend i can take the battery out for a really short while and then be able to read the kernel log buffer |
| 16:54.46 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: yeah, cold boot attacks |
| 16:55.13 | lindi- | (watchdog is disabled during suspend so it does not help) |
| 16:55.25 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: i think so, yes. |
| 16:55.26 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: reliability really depends on lots of 'stuff'. |
| 16:55.49 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: yep |
| 16:55.57 | SpeedEvil | A good rule of thumb is that it only works if you don't want it to. |
| 16:56.02 | lindi- | :) |
| 16:56.11 | DocScrutinizer2 | sdram content may survive like 90% after 10min |
| 16:56.29 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer2: that has interesting power saving opportunities :) |
| 16:56.43 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer2: just put disk cache to ram and CRC each page |
| 16:56.46 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: btw, that patch of yours is cool :) |
| 16:56.55 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: self-refresh is very low power. ~3mW IIRC. |
| 16:56.56 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer2: then powerdown the other 64M ram chip |
| 16:57.03 | *** part/#openmoko sylar91 (n=sylar@83.225.74.170) |
| 16:57.05 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: which one? |
| 16:57.08 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: you could in principle last months. |
| 16:57.12 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: ah, ramconsole |
| 16:57.33 | DocScrutinizer2 | alas power consumption to regenerate the lost bits will be higher than possible savings |
| 16:59.27 | DocScrutinizer2 | often after boot you also see a short flash of last framebuffer content, even after minutes |
| 16:59.46 | SpeedEvil | Isn't that internal glamo? |
| 16:59.49 | SpeedEvil | (on FR) |
| 16:59.54 | DocScrutinizer2 | yup |
| 17:00.16 | DocScrutinizer2 | anyway it's also dram |
| 17:00.43 | DocScrutinizer2 | baically lots of small capacitors |
| 17:00.45 | SpeedEvil | But implementing suspend to self-refreshed RAM, and going cold otherwise would in principle save oodles of power. |
| 17:00.59 | DocScrutinizer2 | yup |
| 17:01.07 | SpeedEvil | (though maybe not really so startling if you've got GSM on) |
| 17:01.12 | DocScrutinizer2 | suspend to ram |
| 17:02.54 | Dave | Good day, Joerg :) |
| 17:03.01 | DocScrutinizer2 | iirc we're already switching ram to lowpower selfrefresh mode on suspend. we don't real suspend to ram though, keeping register content in cpu static |
| 17:03.12 | DocScrutinizer2 | hi dave |
| 17:03.57 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: yeah - from memory the amount of power the CPU uses is really quite high, even in its lowest power mode (though less so if clocked down). But ~48h is fine. |
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| 17:04.00 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer2 |
| 17:04.49 | DocScrutinizer2 | powering down SoC is a quite complex task |
| 17:04.52 | SpeedEvil | (lowest power modes that don't require essentially a reboot on startup) |
| 17:04.56 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 17:05.32 | SpeedEvil | You've got to teach the bootloader stuff, get it all coming up really rapidly. |
| 17:05.59 | SpeedEvil | And if it lasts 48h without bothering, it's a hell of a lot of work to go from 48-70h (with GSM on) |
| 17:06.02 | DocScrutinizer2 | nasty is samsung doesn't provide decent power consumption figures in their doc |
| 17:06.12 | DocScrutinizer2 | for power down states |
| 17:06.26 | DocScrutinizer2 | of different parts of SoC |
| 17:06.34 | SpeedEvil | They somewhat break it down. |
| 17:07.10 | SpeedEvil | (from memory of the 2440) |
| 17:07.25 | SpeedEvil | But that, and 'real' measurements are very lacking. |
| 17:08.16 | SpeedEvil | Well - rds(on) will lead to _much_ higher power dissipation if you replace a 0.5R fet with a 2R one. So you can't just assume that it'll work. |
| 17:08.18 | SpeedEvil | oosp |
| 17:12.16 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: would be cool if somebody uses the device as a PDA and does not have GSM on |
| 17:12.41 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 17:12.56 | lindi- | also we should get gsm deep sleep work but that is another story |
| 17:13.05 | SpeedEvil | Potentially also if you're in quiet mode, you want to turn GSM off. |
| 17:13.27 | SpeedEvil | Or if you've got under 5% of battery power, suspend to disk even. |
| 17:14.03 | DocScrutinizer2 | sure |
| 17:14.14 | SpeedEvil | (though with glamo-SD, that's hideously slow) |
| 17:14.28 | SpeedEvil | (or with GTA01-SD too.) |
| 17:14.58 | SpeedEvil | If you can hit the SD's 'real' speed, then it may not be bad at all with fast SD. |
| 17:18.15 | lindi- | btw, just a poll, how much do your phones consume during suspend when gsm is on? |
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| 17:18.50 | SpeedEvil | hasn't measured with anything close to a recent kernel. |
| 17:18.54 | lindi- | i just replied to andy that here it is around 33-35 mA |
| 17:19.12 | SpeedEvil | With very ancient GSM firmware on GTA01 with everything else shutdown 30mA |
| 17:19.22 | SpeedEvil | that's shutdown - not suspended. |
| 17:19.43 | lindi- | if I can trust 'current_now' immediately after resume |
| 17:19.53 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: interesting |
| 17:20.01 | lindi- | i think i should measure this with GSM off |
| 17:20.07 | SpeedEvil | I dunno. I'd trust the integrated charge over an hour more. |
| 17:20.15 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: is the AT@POFF required to realy power of GSM? |
| 17:20.21 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: it was. |
| 17:20.27 | lindi- | but isn't? |
| 17:20.32 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: I don't know if it is with current firmware. |
| 17:20.42 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: GTA02v5 has a hardware power switch |
| 17:20.47 | lindi- | ok |
| 17:21.02 | DocScrutinizer2 | lindi-: on gta02 nope |
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| 17:21.26 | SpeedEvil | hasn't been keeping up on GTA02. :/ |
| 17:21.39 | lindi- | ok, i'll check what this consumes when gsm is off |
| 17:21.52 | Dave | yeah |
| 17:22.26 | DocScrutinizer2 | assumes that's the strange difference between "gsm-antenna power" and "gsm enable" |
| 17:24.30 | DocScrutinizer2 | PaulFertser_: what's stae of integrating switch and pushbutton operation in /sysfs gsm node? |
| 17:24.47 | DocScrutinizer2 | s/stae/state/ |
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| 17:25.54 | PaulFertser_ | DocScrutinizer2: to be honest, i was distracted by other funny things :( |
| 17:26.36 | DocScrutinizer2 | PaulFertser_: I stopped Werner and Andy from looking into it... |
| 17:26.51 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: 26 mA during suspend when GSM is off |
| 17:27.02 | lindi- | i am not sure if that one data point can be trusted though |
| 17:27.41 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: that would mean that gsm consumes only 7-9 mA |
| 17:27.47 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: and the other parts consume most of it |
| 17:29.06 | DocScrutinizer2 | lindi-: there's just one sensible way to answer your question: suspend for one hour, on time with gsm and another time without, then each time readout charge state of C-counter before and after |
| 17:29.35 | DocScrutinizer2 | 7-9mA looks about right though |
| 17:30.50 | PaulFertser_ | DocScrutinizer2: i was all enthusiastic about that and then suddenly i thought "we lived so long with it working improperly, why hurry now"... And somehow that put this idea to the back of my mind. And, btw, for GSM flashing process i'd use pmu and gpio anyway to be on the safe side and kernel-independent. I can make it my first priority if you like (the other tasks i have in mind is routing diagram and looking more into alsa driv |
| 17:32.10 | *** part/#openmoko mymas_ (n=mymas@FNAfb-02p3-159.ppp11.odn.ad.jp) |
| 17:33.00 | DocScrutinizer2 | would be great to come up with a fix, if it was only for keeping credibility ;-) We told "will be fixed" |
| 17:34.00 | PaulFertser_ | Choose: routing diagram first or the fix first? ;) |
| 17:34.06 | DocScrutinizer2 | and like with alsa noone really understands how to operate the current nonsense |
| 17:34.31 | DocScrutinizer2 | sysfs gsm that is |
| 17:35.15 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: and yes, I agree 7-9mA seems about right |
| 17:36.32 | DocScrutinizer2 | should be 4-5mA iirc, but so hey what |
| 17:37.42 | DocScrutinizer2 | even on 10mA gsm can operate 120h from a fullcharged bat |
| 17:38.26 | DocScrutinizer2 | for bat live we need to find powerhogs that really do nasty |
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| 17:39.21 | DocScrutinizer2 | gsm could be one of them, when actively reregistering every minute |
| 17:39.37 | DocScrutinizer2 | (1024) |
| 17:40.12 | DocScrutinizer2 | 7-9mA might be accurate for sleep=2 |
| 17:40.58 | DocScrutinizer2 | sleep=4 might give you 4mA and constant recamping |
| 17:41.50 | DocScrutinizer2 | ...pushing average consumption to several tens of mA |
| 17:42.52 | DocScrutinizer2 | put FR on your active noiseqube to check ;-) |
| 17:43.51 | DocScrutinizer2 | each register-action gives U wellknown dr-drr-dr-drr-dr buzz |
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| 17:52.59 | DocScrutinizer2 | PaulFertser_: (know operate gsm nonsense) even Werner comes up with paradox results about "switching off gsm" doesn't reduce or even increases consumption. My only explanation for this is he didn't realize switching sysfs is *not* powering down gsm reliably |
| 17:54.44 | PaulFertser_ | DocScrutinizer2: i don't say it's not necesarry. I should have done that long time ago. :( |
| 17:55.25 | PaulFertser_ | DocScrutinizer2: as to his results, probably he used Qi before we found that its PMU setup prevented controlling power switch. |
| 17:56.17 | DocScrutinizer2 | basically not gsm is like motor bike. switch on ignition (powerswitch) isn't actually starting motor. releasing kickstart (sysfs) doen't stop the motor |
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| 17:56.48 | DocScrutinizer2 | s/not/now/ |
| 17:58.09 | DocScrutinizer2 | unlike motorbike on gsm user has no real feedback about actual state of "motor" |
| 17:58.18 | PaulFertser_ | Though sysfs performs PMU action to switch GPIO that controls power anyway. My guess is that he used Qi in that testing and that PMU GPIO issue wasn't yet known. |
| 17:58.46 | DocScrutinizer2 | yup, maybe |
| 17:59.11 | PaulFertser_ | Turning off ignition will stop the motor no matter which state kickstart is :) |
| 17:59.46 | DocScrutinizer2 | anyway I consider sysfs status flaky at least, and needs a decent fix for sure. The sooner the better |
| 18:00.35 | DocScrutinizer2 | (kickstart) like does switch, no matter what stae of pushbutton is |
| 18:01.27 | PaulFertser_ | I understand :( So, what goes first, wm8753 routing diagram with alsa control names or this sysfs issue (which can require some time to test how much time pushbutton requires to act reliably). |
| 18:02.00 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * rf9e59f7f5fe0 10/src/serial.vala: io_add_watch_full patch has been commited upstream with changes; catch up |
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| 18:02.29 | DocScrutinizer2 | power up (=sysfs on) should be: enable powerswitch. wait 100mS, push button. |
| 18:02.47 | PaulFertser_ | I know, i saved your detailed explanation |
| 18:03.10 | DocScrutinizer2 | button released by first "hello" from gsm uart |
| 18:03.34 | DocScrutinizer2 | (nasty for different-driver-issue?) |
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| 18:04.28 | DocScrutinizer2 | power off via sysfs should be: send AT@POFF, wait 1sec, disable powerswitch |
| 18:04.50 | DocScrutinizer2 | s/1/2/ |
| 18:05.10 | PaulFertser_ | Why send AT@POFF? |
| 18:05.25 | DocScrutinizer2 | (gsm modem likes tto say bye to BTS) |
| 18:05.47 | PaulFertser_ | How they lived when this command was not yet implemented? |
| 18:05.58 | DocScrutinizer2 | PaulFertser_: I'd prefer fixing sysfs first |
| 18:06.48 | PaulFertser_ | DocScrutinizer2: sure, i'll start working on this right now then |
| 18:06.58 | DocScrutinizer2 | (lived) doesn't really hurt. BTS will recover eventually - in the end you could have went downstairs to parking deck as well |
| 18:07.26 | PaulFertser_ | So, probably we can avoid using it to not mess with different driver. |
| 18:07.41 | DocScrutinizer2 | it's just polite |
| 18:07.58 | DocScrutinizer2 | PaulFertser_: (right now) great |
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| 18:09.11 | PaulFertser_ | You previous description of powering included asserting reset too. Do you now think that applying power without touching reset is enough? |
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| 18:09.37 | DocScrutinizer2 | yup |
| 18:10.08 | DocScrutinizer2 | reset isn't applicable for gta02 anyway, and seems we don't need it |
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| 18:11.14 | DocScrutinizer2 | PaulFertser_: calypso does poweron-reset autonomously it seems. |
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| 18:12.30 | DocScrutinizer2 | in gta01 reset didn't do any good besides "cycling" for gsmflashing. it even hurts. so it's NC for gta02 |
| 18:12.46 | DocScrutinizer2 | we don't care about it |
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| 18:16.53 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 18:17.03 | PaulFertser_ | DocScrutinizer2: yes, i see NC now. Sure, doesn't seem to do any good. BTW, Andy allowed to do a 1-2 sec msleep there on power on, so i guess implementing some special measures to depress pushbutton only on first bytes from calypso. |
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| 18:17.31 | DocScrutinizer2 | ack |
| 18:17.52 | DocScrutinizer2 | first shot it's perfect anyway I guess |
| 18:18.41 | PaulFertser_ | Because it looks like the serial driver is generic (that flowcontrolled node is implemented independently), so messing with can be too hard |
| 18:19.31 | DocScrutinizer2 | maybe we find we can reduce to sth like 50mS so we're fine with 100mS here as well. that's chrome though, shugar on top |
| 18:20.22 | DocScrutinizer2 | just go ahaead implement a decent wS delay to start with |
| 18:20.31 | DocScrutinizer2 | err 2S |
| 18:21.02 | DocScrutinizer2 | mickey|cinema: enjoy! :-) |
| 18:21.08 | mickey|cinema | thanks, cu |
| 18:21.17 | DocScrutinizer2 | cu |
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| 18:36.32 | |Marco| | PaulFertser_: hey, I've got a few questions arround modifying qi if possible |
| 18:37.51 | PaulFertser_ | |Marco|: go on :) |
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| 19:04.55 | |Marco| | Wonka: are you accessable a.t.m. ? |
| 19:05.12 | Wonka | |Marco|: what for? |
| 19:05.25 | Wonka | aka "depends" |
| 19:05.39 | |Marco| | initramfs questions (if I've bugged the right person) |
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| 19:06.36 | |Marco| | you've been working on some form of bootmenu for initramfs? or have I poked the wrong person ? |
| 19:09.03 | Wonka | |Marco|: i intend to be some time, but atm i am just moving some thoughts around the idea. |
| 19:09.26 | |Marco| | can I poke you in pm ? |
| 19:12.04 | |Marco| | well, how much access do you get to the host device from initramfs, to begin with |
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| 20:08.33 | lindi- | |Marco|: host device? |
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| 20:29.33 | Serdar | is a higher class of micro sdhc better than lower classes? |
| 20:29.46 | Serdar | s/classes/class |
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| 20:42.56 | slaxxin | which kernel is best suited for shrlatest .jffs2 file feb 18 |
| 20:43.21 | slaxxin | the latest uimage? |
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| 20:45.04 | slaxxin | i have andy more drivers tracking -8601 |
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| 20:54.13 | slaxxin | inconsistencies in flashing are killing me |
| 20:55.18 | slaxxin | ok dave u win im dead |
| 20:55.25 | emsyr | Hello everyone. |
| 20:55.49 | slaxxin | howdy |
| 20:56.00 | emsyr | I'm trying to make an illume keyboard for Greek. |
| 20:56.19 | slaxxin | yea |
| 20:56.38 | emsyr | Does anyone know about which keysyms openmoko uses? |
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| 21:42.47 | slaxxin | well it finally does work |
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| 21:43.10 | rooly | raster: mofo, e is on my phone again |
| 21:43.40 | rooly | will bbl |
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| 21:45.04 | slaxxin | eeeek |
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| 21:45.28 | slaxxin | is it she feb 18 an latest.bin |
| 21:45.30 | slaxxin | ? |
| 21:45.35 | slaxxin | shr |
| 21:46.11 | slaxxin | i have had trouble getting sound to work before now |
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| 21:46.45 | ziarkaen | When is the next phone expected to be released? (ie, the one after the Freerunner) |
| 21:47.15 | Slaxxer | afaik not specified yet |
| 21:48.00 | ziarkaen | mmm |
| 21:48.05 | Zorkman | indeed, not specified yet |
| 21:48.13 | ziarkaen | Does the freerunner have touchscreen? |
| 21:48.13 | Zorkman | "normally" it would be "this year" |
| 21:48.31 | Zorkman | but we all know about the FR, the deadline just kept moving :) |
| 21:48.57 | Slaxxer | i like my freerunner |
| 21:49.00 | ziarkaen | Ah yes, well I always buy devices shortly before the next one is announced |
| 21:49.22 | ziarkaen | So my plan is to get the GTA03 at release time |
| 21:50.16 | Slaxxer | check the recent archives for some recent dialog about that |
| 21:53.56 | p3t3r__ | ziarkaen: maybe you can obtain a defected freerunner and try to repair it, like i did. got a FR this way for ~50 euros.. but i had to resolder the AUX button, which turned out to be broken (which was still better than what i thought first as i couldn't enter NOR flash bootloader and thought i had to get a debug board |
| 21:55.15 | Slaxxer | yea |
| 21:55.16 | ziarkaen | That seems very reasonable |
| 21:55.24 | ziarkaen | Although there are no guarantees :p |
| 21:57.57 | p3t3r__ | ziarkaen: sure. but when i grabbed mine at a well known internet auctionist, i thought that it was pretty likely to get rid of it for about the same amount of money or at least without much loss |
| 21:59.59 | *** part/#openmoko dwb (n=david@a177027.upc-a.chello.nl) |
| 22:01.08 | ziarkaen | How many have been produced? |
| 22:02.06 | Zorkman | <20k afaik |
| 22:02.23 | ziarkaen | Wow. |
| 22:02.32 | Zorkman | it's a collectors item :p |
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| 23:47.11 | [Rui] | gah my new sim card doesn't register! |
| 23:47.27 | *** join/#openmoko billk (n=billk@124-169-113-235.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:47.30 | [Rui] | I've upgraded the GSM firmware to moko10 and it doesn't register, sadly :( |
| 23:47.56 | *** part/#openmoko ali1234 (n=al@robotfuzz.co.uk) |
| 23:50.51 | [Rui] | echo -en 'AT+CGMR\r' >/dev/ttySAC0 is not giving me the gsm version! |
| 23:51.26 | [Rui] | phews... it does now... |
| 23:51.26 | PaulFertser_ | [Rui]: if you just upgraded to the version and fluid didn't give any errors, most probably everything is ok. Try your telephony distro. |
| 23:51.38 | [Rui] | at least it doesn't seem to be borked |
| 23:51.59 | [Rui] | PaulFertser_: I did that, and it still doesn't register the sim card |
| 23:52.24 | PaulFertser_ | [Rui]: probably 3G-only network? |
| 23:52.51 | [Rui] | PaulFertser_: not likely, since its plan allows gprs |
| 23:53.37 | PaulFertser_ | [Rui]: there were no reports about 2G-compatible sims not working after upgrade to moko10, afaik. Check electrical contacts probably. |
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| 23:54.00 | [Rui] | PaulFertser_: I'm plugging my old sim |
| 23:54.15 | [Rui] | PaulFertser_: the problem is that in a few days it won't work anymore :( |
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| 23:54.29 | PaulFertser_ | [Rui]: what if you have grease on your sim or pins? |
| 23:55.08 | [Rui] | PaulFertser_: doesn't look like it |
| 23:55.47 | PaulFertser_ | [Rui]: It'd be good if you try your new sim in another 2G-only phone. |
| 23:56.04 | [Rui] | PaulFertser_: I don't have any |
| 23:56.14 | [Rui] | I think |
| 23:57.16 | PaulFertser_ | [Rui]: what distro are you using? Can it be that it's not registering problem itself, but something else? |
| 23:57.24 | [Rui] | PaulFertser_: 2008.12 |
| 23:57.53 | [Rui] | PaulFertser_: I'm using it as my day to day phone, and it's the best one there is, for the moment, and to me. |
| 23:58.49 | [Rui] | now i have rebooted with my old SIM, and it worked purrfectly |
| 23:59.23 | PaulFertser_ | [Rui]: it might worth trying to register manually using instructions from http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket//2231 and look what it gives. |
| 23:59.30 | PaulFertser_ | [Rui]: otherwise, i'm out of ideas. |