| 00:01.54 | laen | SpeedEvil: true, and that is why i don't even understand creating all those distro's for the FR and 1973.. why didn't they just use for example Debian with it's EmDebian project, and focus on the tools.. Debian works allready. |
| 00:02.05 | *** join/#openmoko Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) |
| 00:02.54 | laen | And all the extra's come from the debian repos anyway. So, then they only would have had the kernel and phone stuff to work on. |
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| 00:03.27 | vininim | Is there any suggested way of handling GPRS on SHR? |
| 00:08.00 | lindi- | laen: emdebian didn't exist at that time probably |
| 00:13.13 | lindi- | laen: hmm, i'm now thinking that I should have a really simple program to only answer calls. it could run without connection to X and would only play ringtone and take AUX to answer a call |
| 00:13.20 | lindi- | laen: currently if X crashes I can't answer calls |
| 00:16.42 | shellevil | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:16.50 | shellevil | and pulse-dial! |
| 00:18.09 | lindi- | yeah answer and hangup |
| 00:18.11 | vininim | awesome, gprs works! |
| 00:18.48 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rc9e5d80540d5 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: fix ListProviders for systems that do not return the access technology. Closes FSO #329 |
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| 00:34.34 | vininim | okay, going outside to try agps |
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| 01:04.01 | vininim | wat |
| 01:04.03 | vininim | root@om-gta02 ~ $ mdbus -s org.freedesktop.Gypsy /org/freedesktop/Gypsy org.freedesktop.Gypsy.Device.GetFixStatus |
| 01:04.04 | vininim | 1 |
| 01:04.13 | vininim | root@om-gta02 ~ $ mdbus -s org.freedesktop.Gypsy /org/freedesktop/Gypsy org.freedesktop.Gypsy.Position.GetPosition |
| 01:04.13 | vininim | (0, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0) |
| 01:04.43 | mwester | what manner of mathematical equations are you writing, vininim ? |
| 01:05.36 | vininim | trying to figure out why agps isn't working y_y |
| 01:06.06 | vininim | FixStatus 1 means OK or not OK? |
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| 01:06.32 | mwester | suspects this is an example of the lunacy imposed on the world by things like dbus. |
| 01:06.53 | vininim | oh, 1 means none x_x |
| 01:06.57 | mwester | god forbid that an application actually have a SIMPLE command-line usage, and print a useful error diagnostic! |
| 01:07.18 | mwester | curses dbus and all who have fallen under it's evil spell |
| 01:07.52 | vininim | heh |
| 01:08.07 | vininim | I wonder what is the interaction between agps and fso-gpsd |
| 01:08.40 | vininim | do they conflict? what should I run first? will fso-gpsd turn gps off and on? |
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| 01:23.57 | rhkfin | vininim: I'd think gpsd on first (according to my 2008.12 experience). |
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| 01:48.12 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07dbus-hlid * r0a3bc4679538 10/ (9 files in 2 dirs): remove i18n support |
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| 02:03.47 | rhkfin | I have a .tar.gz on my server. Downloaded it to FR and try to tar zxf it but I get 'tar: corrupted octal value in tar header'. md5sum is the same on both and on server I can open it without any problems. Ideas? |
| 02:04.23 | *** join/#openmoko lymeca (n=lymeca@85-220-112-39.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is) |
| 02:05.14 | vininim | rhkfin: try gunzip followed by tar |
| 02:06.43 | rhkfin | vininim: I repackaged it on the server (instead of Ark on my local) and now it works. Weird.. I never have trusted Ark anyway :) |
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| 02:13.15 | docscrutinizer2 | (Ark) :-/ |
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| 02:30.18 | *** topic/#openmoko is Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | Freerunner is in stock in some resellers. | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Quickstart | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems | Keyboard numbers for 2008.8 : slide finger up on the keyboard |
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| 02:59.32 | jeff_ | would anyone know how to enable sound? I compilied my own kernel from the git repository and I am wondering if there are settings in the .config that I missed |
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| 03:13.38 | Dave | orzo |
| 03:13.46 | orzo | dave |
| 03:14.06 | orzo | i want to configure X so that it just recognizes any keyboard i plug in |
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| 03:14.16 | Dave | uh huh |
| 03:14.17 | orzo | its not doing it |
| 03:14.18 | Dave | still on that? |
| 03:14.22 | Dave | heh |
| 03:14.36 | orzo | well, i made my bluetooth keyboard appear alwayas present |
| 03:14.37 | orzo | so it works |
| 03:14.53 | orzo | but i want to use this dell keyboard and now would have to edit xorg.conf and restart and such |
| 03:14.57 | orzo | it seems like i shouldnlt have to do that |
| 03:16.41 | *** join/#openmoko playya__ (n=playya@f051071197.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 03:22.42 | orzo | apparently debian uses xorg server 1.4.0 |
| 03:22.50 | orzo | and i need 1.5 or newer for hotplug |
| 03:23.07 | vininim | I thought lenny included 1.5 |
| 03:23.30 | orzo | well its not in debian unstable |
| 03:25.55 | Dave | ouch :\ |
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| 03:29.48 | docscrutinizer2 | Dave! |
| 03:30.18 | Dave | Joerg! |
| 03:30.32 | docscrutinizer2 | \o/ |
| 03:30.40 | Dave | ^_^ |
| 03:31.12 | orzo | is that emoticon depicting an offered vagina? |
| 03:31.39 | docscrutinizer2 | tztztz |
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| 03:33.29 | docscrutinizer2 | orzo: be careful! Eventually some Dr. psy. might use this instead of a Rohrschach test ;) |
| 03:33.29 | Dave | hahaha |
| 03:33.34 | Dave | hahaha yeah |
| 03:33.35 | Dave | :p |
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| 03:37.49 | vininim | While Debian may be playing it safe with GNOME, it has opted for the latest stable release of X.org - version 7.3. The latest X.org brings some nice new features like hot-swappable support for input devices such as mice and keyboard and enhanced support for touch screens and tablets. |
| 03:38.22 | vininim | you could try a dist-upgrade |
| 03:39.35 | playya__ | </advertisment> |
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| 03:42.17 | orzo | uum |
| 03:42.28 | orzo | i think that's wrong |
| 03:42.31 | orzo | it's 7.3 |
| 03:42.52 | orzo | but apparently the xorg xserver package for 7.3 is 1.4 |
| 03:43.55 | orzo | whatever you're quoting is probably in error |
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| 04:36.10 | Dave | :( |
| 04:36.15 | Dave | frownymoko |
| 04:41.38 | ColdFyre | is there a changelog for the shr builds? |
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| 04:54.08 | slaxxin | power button stays lit |
| 04:54.14 | slaxxin | orange |
| 04:58.15 | Dave | neat |
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| 05:23.30 | slaxxin | shr worked for a few minuits |
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| 05:24.17 | slaxxin | seemed to be more responsive |
| 05:24.35 | slaxxin | no segfaults |
| 05:25.13 | slaxxin | it wasnt the wsod it had some fading color |
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| 05:39.55 | ColdFyre | slaxxin: what was the build date? |
| 05:40.10 | ColdFyre | the one from feb 15 has been running for 3 days for me perectly |
| 05:40.27 | ColdFyre | as in i have not rebooted the phone |
| 05:41.06 | slaxxin | rootfs? |
| 05:41.32 | slaxxin | 2-18 |
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| 05:41.58 | ColdFyre | havent tried that one :x |
| 05:42.00 | slaxxin | with that latest.bin? |
| 05:42.12 | ColdFyre | yes, latest bin |
| 05:42.13 | slaxxin | or mwesters? |
| 05:42.17 | slaxxin | ok |
| 05:43.12 | ColdFyre | which did you use |
| 05:43.24 | ColdFyre | (i was going to try the 2/18) |
| 05:44.05 | slaxxin | im pretty sure it was latest.bin but i changed it 3 times |
| 05:44.15 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:45.19 | slaxxin | is everybody pretty sure that all these freerunners have exactly the same chips in them? |
| 05:45.58 | ColdFyre | some act strange, some don't |
| 05:46.01 | ColdFyre | /shrug |
| 05:46.43 | slaxxin | is it a range of serial #'s? |
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| 05:48.42 | ColdFyre | i'd say probably not, but i can't answer for certain |
| 05:55.07 | mwester | They have all the same chips in them, we have been told. However, some of them have some minor changes around the LED circuit, the PMU, and similar peripheral sorts of places. |
| 05:56.09 | mwester | In terms of things that might affect the device locking up, failing to boot, the WSoD, that seems to be normal variance in parts due to some circuits that are a bit too sensitive. |
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| 06:00.12 | wenjie | Is there any news about gsoc 2009? |
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| 08:31.09 | soul9 | anyone get android beta3 to boot? |
| 08:32.16 | soul9 | it just displays a black screen on my phone |
| 08:32.30 | soul9 | looks like it tries to boot, but it just sits there with a black screen |
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| 08:39.21 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 08:41.27 | ccfly | hello :) |
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| 08:52.24 | bartuer | Hi, I want to download the rootfs to phone, like that dfu-util -a rootfs -R -D, but receive "No such Alternate Setting: "rootfs"", anybody know that? thanks |
| 08:53.59 | PaulFertser_ | bartuer: probably you have other dfu-capable devices attached. |
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| 08:54.57 | bartuer | PaulFertser_: lsusb Bus 002 Device 003: ID 04fe:0006 PFU, Ltd |
| 08:54.57 | bartuer | Bus 002 Device 002: ID 04fe:0008 PFU, Ltd |
| 08:55.12 | PaulFertser_ | bartuer: use dfu-util -l |
| 08:55.30 | bartuer | dfu-util - (C) 2007 by OpenMoko Inc. |
| 08:55.31 | bartuer | This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY |
| 08:55.31 | bartuer | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:55.31 | bartuer | Found Runtime: [0x0a12:0xffff] devnum=8, cfg=0, intf=0, alt=0, name="UNDEFINED" |
| 08:55.45 | bartuer | dfu-util said only one |
| 08:55.59 | bartuer | dfu-util - (C) 2007 by OpenMoko Inc. |
| 08:55.59 | bartuer | This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY |
| 08:55.59 | bartuer | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:55.59 | bartuer | Opening USB Device 0x0000:0x0000... |
| 08:55.59 | bartuer | Claiming USB DFU Runtime Interface... |
| 08:56.00 | bartuer | Determining device status: state = dfuIDLE, status = 0 |
| 08:56.02 | bartuer | WARNING: Runtime device already in DFU state ?!? |
| 08:56.04 | bartuer | No such Alternate Setting: "rootfs" |
| 08:56.15 | PaulFertser_ | bartuer: use pastebin next time, please |
| 08:56.45 | PaulFertser_ | bartuer: "Opening USB Device 0x0000:0x0000" that is wrong. |
| 08:56.56 | PaulFertser_ | bartuer: are you sure you're staying in u-boot while trying that? |
| 08:57.23 | bartuer | PaulFertser_: yes, I am sure, |
| 08:57.41 | bartuer | PaulFertser_: need wait 30 seconds? |
| 08:57.45 | *** join/#openmoko Cervajz1 (n=Cervajz@45.215.broadband4.iol.cz) |
| 08:58.06 | PaulFertser_ | bartuer: if you wait for more than 30 seconds in NOR u-boot, it'll restart the device. |
| 08:58.52 | bartuer | PaulFertser_:always display BOOT MENU means stay in u-boot, right? |
| 08:59.46 | PaulFertser_ | bartuer: if you're using NOR u-boot, then no u-boot settings are saved in u-boot env ever. |
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| 09:08.11 | bartuer | PaulFertser_: I find another bluttooth plug on my machine, remove it, flash begin, thanks! |
| 09:08.26 | PaulFertser_ | bartuer: i told ya :) |
| 09:09.01 | PaulFertser_ | bartuer: though you can just specify VID/PID of FR manually in the dfu-util command line. Wiki has an example of that. |
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| 09:10.35 | bartuer | PaulFertser_:I forget I that, yes, but before plug the phone to the mainboard usb socket, I can not see the vendor id, I just the unknown bluetooth adapter |
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| 09:15.26 | PaulFertser_ | Looks like what Harald wrote 1.5 years ago still applies :( http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2007/07/17#20070717-sick-not-insane |
| 09:18.56 | methril | morning |
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| 09:23.16 | bartuer | PaulFertser_: I have seen that, but I am also a human |
| 09:23.41 | PaulFertser_ | bartuer: that == Harald's post ? |
| 09:24.45 | bartuer | PaulFertser_: I read it about 1.5 years ago, I subscribe his blog when he start openezx |
| 09:26.05 | PaulFertser_ | bartuer: do you mean that you defend insane TPE customs and stupid managers from silicone vendors and inadequate management inside OM and so on? |
| 09:26.35 | soul9 | anyone get android beta3 working? |
| 09:27.59 | PaulFertser_ | soul9: what for? |
| 09:28.47 | bartuer | PaulFertser_: oops, I access it, misunderstand you |
| 09:29.02 | PaulFertser_ | bartuer: every time? ;) |
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| 09:40.46 | CIA-49 | openmoko: 03werner * r4923 10/developers/werner/wlan-trial/wlan-trial.init: - add /usr/sbin to PATH so that wpa_supplicant is found |
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| 09:53.20 | torpor | hiya |
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| 10:06.37 | mithris | yo torpor |
| 10:08.46 | torpor | yo mithris |
| 10:09.07 | torpor | anyone got android running on their FR's? |
| 10:09.13 | torpor | is it worth trying out? |
| 10:10.12 | PaulFertser_ | torpor: why anyone would want that? |
| 10:13.50 | torpor | i wrote an android app last night in an hour |
| 10:13.51 | torpor | its awesome |
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| 10:28.09 | laen | Nee :P the opposite side. |
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| 10:30.56 | laen | Oo |
| 10:31.50 | laen | soul9: got it installed and working, phone only started working it seemed when i booted without usb cable connected to it.. but then again the sound was way too low, could barely hear. |
| 10:32.23 | laen | lindi-: Mmmm good one. I'm thinking about client/daemon setup of it now.. like mpd and whatever client (mpc/gmpc/etc). |
| 10:32.50 | laen | lindi-: but that does mean you can answer and hangup phonecalls with the AUX indeed, that'd be a req. |
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| 10:33.39 | *** join/#openmoko sigi (n=sigi@54-115.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 10:33.45 | laen | lindi-: did you look at pyneo btw? Seems like a full python implementation (even though i didn't get it to work at all yesterday, graphically). |
| 10:34.06 | *** join/#openmoko sigi (n=sigi@54-115.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 10:34.09 | sigi | hi |
| 10:34.43 | sigi | tangoGPS crashes when I try to change the cache dir |
| 10:35.06 | sigi | where are those settings stored? |
| 10:35.57 | laen | .config i believe |
| 10:36.02 | rhkfin | laen: ~/.gconf/apps/tangogps |
| 10:36.09 | sigi | cool thanks |
| 10:36.11 | laen | sigi: see rhkfin |
| 10:36.13 | laen | :P |
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| 10:39.48 | sigi | there's only the name of the repo in the config file, not the cache dir. Do somebody know where the repo infos are stored? |
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| 10:44.06 | laen | find / -type f -iname *tangogps* or something? :P |
| 10:45.06 | sigi | I'm eager to try out "opkg files tangogps" but got another opkg process running right now :) |
| 10:46.08 | laen | killall opkg :P |
| 10:46.59 | sigi | don't know if "opkg upgrade" would like that |
| 10:47.06 | sigi | :P |
| 10:47.34 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=Satan@41.196.211.190) |
| 10:47.54 | laen | Hey, your phone, not opkg's! :P |
| 10:48.30 | *** join/#openmoko kait (n=email@cmnz-4d05a5ab.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 10:49.17 | jrodger_ | Hello, I ahve a freerunner and I am trying yto upgrade the image to OM2008.12 but every time I do it says that AM02 can run on GTA01......but the file says it for GTA02 hardware....what am I missing |
| 10:52.02 | lindi- | laen: not yet |
| 10:52.12 | lindi- | laen: i only need something simple and reliable as usual :) |
| 10:52.41 | lindi- | laen: I missed a call since xglamo crashed on resume (it started to consume 80% cpu time and responded so slowly that kapula totally froze) |
| 10:53.01 | laen | lindi-: hmmm never had that before Oo |
| 10:53.34 | laen | lindi-: but nevertheless, depending on X is understandable, not optimal :P |
| 10:53.42 | soul9 | PaulFertser_: what do you mean what for? :-) |
| 10:53.51 | lindi- | laen: of course if a GUI app is working it can also show that there is an incoming call |
| 10:54.01 | laen | yup :) |
| 10:54.04 | soul9 | laen: interesting, it doesn't seem to boot at all here |
| 10:54.17 | soul9 | without the cable |
| 10:54.51 | laen | lindi-: well the good news is that i finally finished some other tutorials i was doing.. the bad news is that i wanna wait till 2.6 hits the stable trees in distributions so i can startoff with p3k-code right away when learning it :p |
| 10:55.04 | laen | soul9: ah the first boot takes like 10 minutes. |
| 10:55.12 | laen | and i'm not that exaggerating at all :p |
| 10:55.37 | laen | soul9: once it booted, power it off, unplug, boot again. |
| 10:55.42 | sigi | crap I "opkg upgrade"d and now e is crashing and can't recover from the crashes... |
| 10:55.58 | laen | sigi: cause opkg is crap and e is crap :P |
| 10:56.11 | laen | this calls for.. |
| 10:56.15 | sigi | laen: what the alternative? |
| 10:56.16 | laen | http://crapalert.org! |
| 10:56.20 | sigi | :) |
| 10:56.41 | laen | sigi: Debian offcourse. Ask lindi-, it is teh best.. it's a normal, existing distro. |
| 10:57.08 | sigi | yeah I've been playing with hackable:1 yesterday.. |
| 10:57.22 | lindi- | laen: also, the bad news is that there is still a bug in ogsmd somewhere. it sometimes stops responding to any dbus calls at all |
| 10:57.26 | laen | I try all distro's every 2 months, and it all results in me returning to my debian everytime. |
| 10:57.45 | *** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=chatzill@d51A515D7.access.telenet.be) |
| 10:57.47 | lindi- | laen: it will send signals on incoming call but won't reply to any dbus function calls |
| 10:58.13 | sigi | what "tast bar" and phone apps are you using on debian? |
| 10:58.14 | amarsh04 | laen, on the openmoko handsets or on other machines? |
| 10:58.54 | amarsh04 | runs Debian, has no openmoko hardware but tries to keep up with the developments |
| 10:59.17 | sigi | s/tast/task |
| 10:59.30 | laen | amarsh04: openmoko freerunner |
| 10:59.56 | laen | lindi-: using the aux to pick up you mean? |
| 11:00.15 | amarsh04 | thanks laen |
| 11:00.17 | lindi- | laen: using AUX won't help with that bug |
| 11:00.37 | laen | lindi-: ah there's a bug about it.. got ya. |
| 11:01.18 | amarsh04 | what convinced me about debian was being able to upgrade glibc without rebooting and having the continually updated testing and unstable branches |
| 11:01.22 | sigi | laen: what phone/sms apps do you use on debian? Does the illume keyboard work there too? |
| 11:01.40 | lindi- | sigi: illume keyboard works only with one window manager |
| 11:02.07 | lindi- | laen: http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/348 is the bug |
| 11:02.08 | sigi | lindi-: e? |
| 11:02.13 | lindi- | sigi: e |
| 11:02.41 | lindi- | hmm, http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/348 does not seem to respond. i better start to mirror those too |
| 11:02.53 | sigi | is xfce or lxde useful and fingerfriendly? |
| 11:04.00 | sigi | btw, my upgraded om2008.12 installation is indeed hosed after the "opkg upgrade" |
| 11:04.29 | lindi- | sigi: i use icewm |
| 11:04.36 | lindi- | sigi: i found xfce bit too heavy |
| 11:04.57 | sigi | lindi-: Ok, gonna try "deian on freerunner" once more then |
| 11:05.29 | sigi | are there rootfs.tar.gz's somewhere or is the installation script the way to go? |
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| 11:05.47 | lindi- | sigi: installer |
| 11:06.06 | lindi- | sigi: but you can of course run the installer in qemu and copy the results to phone |
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| 11:06.33 | sigi | lindi-: thanks for the hint |
| 11:06.37 | lindi- | sigi: http://people.debian.org/~aurel32/qemu/arm/ has premade qemu image |
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| 11:08.44 | sigi | lindi-: which needs 10GiB? |
| 11:09.36 | lindi- | sigi: it's qcow2 |
| 11:09.40 | sigi | lindi-: or is this the max size of the filesystem of the image? |
| 11:09.46 | sigi | lindi-: ok |
| 11:09.53 | lindi- | sigi: it'll grow automatically up to 10G |
| 11:11.09 | sigi | lindi-: that's the problem I've got about 2GB free space on my notebook ;P |
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| 11:14.09 | soul9 | laen: oooh, first boot should be with usb cable in? |
| 11:14.19 | *** part/#openmoko los (n=los@194.29.137.44) |
| 11:20.43 | lindi- | sigi: do it remotely on some other computer? |
| 11:25.24 | Serdar | qtextended tells me at the tab modem in system info, "Model: 'Neo1973 Embedded GSM Modem'" is that correct also for a freerunner? |
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| 11:33.11 | shellevil | yes |
| 11:33.32 | shellevil | The modem is - pretty much - identical. |
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| 11:38.15 | laen | soul9: ya |
| 11:39.28 | sigi | So whats the best phone/sms app for debian right now? |
| 11:39.50 | sigi | Has someone already tried paroli on debian? |
| 11:40.07 | mirko-paroli | sigi: sadly there is bindings missing |
| 11:40.22 | mirko-paroli | so paroli doesn't run on it yet, if you don't want to build them yourself |
| 11:40.27 | Serdar | phone works with qtextended |
| 11:40.37 | laen | what's paroli? |
| 11:41.05 | Serdar | really nice. the other person cannot send a busy message |
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| 11:41.14 | mirko-paroli | laen: http://www.paroli-project.org/about-paroli/ |
| 11:42.13 | Serdar | is it possible to install multiboot at openmoko? |
| 11:44.57 | laen | So, i'm asking myself.. *Why is paroli edje dependent.. i don't get it*. |
| 11:45.16 | mirko-paroli | laen: how do you mean? |
| 11:45.25 | lindi- | Serdar: what is multiboot? |
| 11:45.26 | laen | I don't want enlightenment. |
| 11:45.38 | laen | mirko-paroli: So, paroli is a total no-go. |
| 11:46.02 | laen | It's aiming to be a framework and turns out not to be just a framework at all. |
| 11:46.08 | mirko-paroli | laen: strong opinion. what would you prefer than? |
| 11:46.20 | Serdar | lindi-, selecting the distribution in uboot |
| 11:46.20 | mirko-paroli | a framework? |
| 11:46.35 | lindi- | Serdar: just use different boot options for that? |
| 11:46.51 | sigi | laen: isn't fso meant to be the framework? |
| 11:46.58 | laen | mirko-paroli: well, for example lindi- is making a python/gtk phone app. If paroli would just be a framework handling things, there would be no dependancy on whatever, and the front-end (phone or sms app) would have the deps. |
| 11:47.09 | Serdar | lindi-, to switch the dsitributions |
| 11:47.16 | lindi- | Serdar: yep |
| 11:47.30 | lindi- | Serdar: u-boot works just like grub in this case |
| 11:47.39 | laen | sigi: yeah but not as a layer between hardware and software.. the framework is just for handling, paroli could be that layer. |
| 11:47.42 | mirko-paroli | laen: a) where do we claim to be a framework? |
| 11:47.56 | Serdar | qtextended is nice for calling, but I can't use wlan or gps, maybe another distribution can do that |
| 11:48.09 | mirko-paroli | laen: where do we get the manpower to support all that if everyone is working on his own phone app ? |
| 11:48.12 | laen | mirko-paroli: nowhere, but why aren't ya? You're explaining paroli as if it is a layer between the hardware and frontends.. |
| 11:48.45 | laen | mirko-paroli: if everyone's working on their phone app, there's more time to develop paroli. Now, all the work will go to the paroli frontends. |
| 11:49.00 | mirko-paroli | yes I do indeed, but pointing at python and efl, for now |
| 11:49.13 | mirko-paroli | laen: i don't think that everyone will focus on the apps |
| 11:49.21 | mirko-paroli | laen: and I |
| 11:49.35 | mirko-paroli | and I'd be happy if there was effort to open up paroli a bit |
| 11:49.52 | mirko-paroli | mind you tichy (our core) had support for multiple backends such as gtk etc |
| 11:50.04 | mirko-paroli | we dropped it because we have no man-power |
| 11:50.05 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=Satan@41.196.136.38) |
| 11:50.26 | mirko-paroli | so please before you claim we don't want something and hence are evil and smallsighted ask first |
| 11:51.18 | mirko-paroli | the structure in paroli is also so flexible that you can easily replace the parts that are bound to efl |
| 11:51.19 | laen | No but i think this is just "yet another application" with ugly deps. So, if you think thats cool.. thats fine. I think it's a waste of effort again. |
| 11:51.25 | *** join/#openmoko kennyz (n=kennyz@uralnet.org) |
| 11:52.28 | mirko-paroli | you may very well think that, however it is a biased view and certainly not development friendly |
| 11:52.37 | laen | Sorry there, but it sounded exciting at start, guess i just was a bit overexcited. |
| 11:53.08 | mirko-paroli | as I said we are open for everything and charlie, the main guy behind tichy, was very sad to drop the other graphics things |
| 11:53.14 | mirko-paroli | if there is room and a group that wants to work on that |
| 11:53.17 | mirko-paroli | be my guest |
| 11:53.20 | laen | No look at it this way: yay, paroli will run on OM2008.* or so, fine.. but what about running it on Debian, we will have to port it all again. |
| 11:53.45 | sigi | laen: or port e libs? |
| 11:53.56 | mirko-paroli | as I said the offer to change it and make it flexible upstream stands |
| 11:54.23 | mirko-paroli | I simply don't have the time right now |
| 11:54.42 | mirko-paroli | (and not the knowledge/expertise) |
| 11:54.52 | laen | Naw. Nevermind, i just got a bit too excited. So we now have Zhone, Openmoko-phonestuff, FSO stuff, Qtextended phonestuff and now paroli too, yay. |
| 11:55.20 | mirko-paroli | paroli, openmoko-phonestuff and fso stuff are the same aren't they? |
| 11:55.26 | mirko-paroli | zhone is a testing tool |
| 11:55.49 | laen | Yeah but the best working so far it seems. |
| 11:55.56 | mirko-paroli | agreed |
| 11:56.12 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@93.84.112.66) |
| 11:56.13 | laen | So okay, you want another phone app for example.. why? |
| 11:56.20 | mirko-paroli | another phone app? |
| 11:56.27 | mirko-paroli | I want one |
| 11:56.30 | laen | Besides the openmoko and openmoko-zhone. |
| 11:56.30 | mirko-paroli | not another one |
| 11:56.40 | mirko-paroli | zhone is not meant to be for daily use |
| 11:56.46 | laen | Offcourse it's another one. |
| 11:56.51 | mirko-paroli | it certainly is good enough to provide that |
| 11:57.36 | sigi | I tried paroli and would be happy to replace zhone with it.. |
| 11:57.57 | laen | Yeah but that doesn't change my point sigi, that paroli is yet another phone app.. |
| 11:57.59 | mirko-paroli | but it has its limits that are inherent and won't go away as it is not meant to be a full-blown phone app |
| 11:58.22 | sigi | btw, mirko-paroli: who decided the sms background should be red? :) |
| 11:58.29 | mirko-paroli | sigi LOL |
| 11:58.33 | mirko-paroli | that is development |
| 11:58.42 | sigi | thought so... |
| 11:58.46 | mirko-paroli | TextView in etk does not allow me to change the text-color |
| 11:58.58 | sigi | mirko-paroli: LOL, ok |
| 11:59.00 | mirko-paroli | it should be white on black but I just can't get it there |
| 11:59.12 | mirko-paroli | laen: i understand your point |
| 11:59.34 | mirko-paroli | but I also think that complaining about something not being what you had hoped |
| 11:59.45 | laen | It was :) |
| 11:59.45 | mirko-paroli | and accusing others of not being smart won't help |
| 11:59.53 | laen | Not saying your not smart :) |
| 12:00.06 | mirko-paroli | well you said it is just same old same old |
| 12:00.09 | laen | I just feel that lots of effort are put in the wrong directions. |
| 12:00.10 | Serdar | how's android? |
| 12:00.21 | laen | Serdar: allmost functional. |
| 12:00.28 | mirko-paroli | laen: my main thing is, that I don't like toolkits |
| 12:00.29 | *** join/#openmoko C7` (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 12:00.34 | mirko-paroli | and would gladly replace all of them |
| 12:00.40 | mirko-paroli | unfort I can't right now |
| 12:00.47 | Serdar | laen, phone, wlan, bt and gps too? |
| 12:01.01 | mirko-paroli | om's distro's are running e so why should we go for something else |
| 12:01.05 | mirko-paroli | however |
| 12:01.10 | mirko-paroli | not blocking anything else |
| 12:01.22 | laen | Serdar: sort-off... wlan is hard to get working, gps works i believe, phone sound volume is too low, bt.. dunno. |
| 12:01.24 | mirko-paroli | if someone says she/he wants to make it usable with gtk as well |
| 12:01.29 | mickeyl | Serdar: looks like your gsm firmware is pretty old. I'd advise updating to moko11b1 |
| 12:01.38 | mirko-paroli | I will gladly help wherever I can |
| 12:02.08 | *** join/#openmoko alx} (n=alx}--@134.95.88-79.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 12:02.59 | mirko-paroli | laen: and the phone, message handling stuff etc is all e independent |
| 12:03.12 | mirko-paroli | there should only be e stuff in the apps and the gui module |
| 12:03.15 | laen | mirko-paroli: no as you and i before that allready said.. i got a bit excited thinking it was a framework. I'm not saying it's a bad project, i know people want something working and thus it's actually a good thing what you're doing. Just not what i'm waiting for or was hoping for :) |
| 12:03.40 | laen | Bad for me, thats all :P |
| 12:03.45 | mirko-paroli | laen: and I am saying turn it into what you think it should be |
| 12:03.57 | mirko-paroli | one does not mean we can't do the other |
| 12:04.07 | laen | mirko-paroli: can't make a mandarine out of an apple. |
| 12:04.12 | Serdar | mickeyl, how do I see how old my firmware is? |
| 12:04.14 | sigi | laen: that would actually be worth a try. rewriting paroli to use gtk |
| 12:04.23 | mirko-paroli | laen: well you want e deps to be gone |
| 12:04.24 | laen | Noo thanks. |
| 12:04.47 | laen | I want a layer.. paroli is no layer so rewriting it for gtk still doesn't get me what i want :) |
| 12:05.00 | sigi | mirko-paroli: I might even try that but don't expect too much, I don't have a lot of experience |
| 12:05.05 | mirko-paroli | you want it to not start apps? |
| 12:05.19 | mickeyl | Serdar: no idea with qt/e |
| 12:05.21 | mirko-paroli | laen: but to only answer calls from other apps via IPC? |
| 12:05.27 | mickeyl | with fso or shr it's one dbus call |
| 12:05.27 | sigi | mirko-paroli: not even talking about the free time :) |
| 12:05.44 | mickeyl | Serdar: your model string sounds like moko8 or so though |
| 12:05.56 | laen | mirko-paroli: indeed. |
| 12:06.00 | mickeyl | try talking with /dev/ttySAC0 |
| 12:06.03 | mickeyl | and issue AT+CGMR |
| 12:06.05 | mirko-paroli | sigi: hehe, looking forward seeing that come alive |
| 12:06.08 | mickeyl | after stopping qt/e |
| 12:06.11 | mirko-paroli | laen: actually that is on our plan as well |
| 12:06.24 | mirko-paroli | laen: true you couldn't knwo as I didn't write it anywhere |
| 12:06.31 | mirko-paroli | but that as well is "easily" doable |
| 12:06.33 | laen | But you integrate it into the apps, i want no integration whatsoever. |
| 12:06.34 | mirko-paroli | but needs live and effort |
| 12:07.01 | laen | hoping i will find the time to write that with lindi- sometime soon :) |
| 12:07.04 | Serdar | mickeyl, I guess I don't have any /dev/ttySACX devices |
| 12:07.07 | mirko-paroli | laen: no integration ... think I am not following |
| 12:07.37 | Serdar | I need to go to the hospital see you guys |
| 12:07.37 | mickeyl | Serdar: that's unlikely. /dev/ttySAC0 is the modem |
| 12:07.38 | mirko-paroli | it need live and effort of course ... |
| 12:07.54 | laen | mirko-paroli: well, that means it will become sort of a daemon.. but installing paroli will still require me to get edje etc. |
| 12:08.02 | mirko-paroli | ah |
| 12:08.06 | mirko-paroli | well |
| 12:08.08 | mirko-paroli | if |
| 12:08.12 | mirko-paroli | and this is speculation here |
| 12:08.15 | laen | And it will still get me the frontends etc. |
| 12:08.25 | mirko-paroli | we split paroli into various packages |
| 12:08.27 | mirko-paroli | having core |
| 12:08.30 | mirko-paroli | giu |
| 12:08.32 | mirko-paroli | and apps |
| 12:08.39 | laen | And that daemon will offcourse have paroli-specific stuff.. etc. |
| 12:08.40 | mirko-paroli | the core does not require apps |
| 12:08.45 | laen | hmm |
| 12:08.50 | laen | Tichy right? |
| 12:09.19 | mirko-paroli | yepp it is not the orig |
| 12:09.25 | mirko-paroli | a bit streamlined |
| 12:09.28 | mirko-paroli | but fast |
| 12:09.38 | mirko-paroli | and in itself very reliable |
| 12:09.55 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey-t (n=emonkey@160.85.38.186) |
| 12:10.03 | *** join/#openmoko massoud (n=massoud@85.233.200.18) |
| 12:10.46 | sigi | mirko-paroli: what distro are you running yourself, btw. SHR or FSO? |
| 12:11.15 | mirko-paroli | sigi: an openmoko unstable based on fso |
| 12:11.22 | mirko-paroli | never tried shr :( |
| 12:11.52 | mirko-paroli | lean : in essence |
| 12:11.54 | mirko-paroli | I completely agree with you |
| 12:12.16 | mirko-paroli | it is very limiting and in my dream-world it is a home to all kinds of apps and tks and what not |
| 12:12.34 | *** join/#openmoko tig| (n=Tig@aurix2.plus.com) |
| 12:12.40 | mirko-paroli | unfortunately we had to make certain sacrefices to get things moving |
| 12:12.42 | mirko-paroli | but |
| 12:12.48 | mirko-paroli | that does not mean we don't want them |
| 12:12.50 | mirko-paroli | guess that |
| 12:12.59 | mirko-paroli | is why I felt offended by what you said |
| 12:13.10 | mirko-paroli | as I didn't want to drop flexibility |
| 12:14.32 | laen | mirko-paroli: Ah i can get a bit too excited and dissapointed too much sometimes :) |
| 12:14.39 | laen | Sorry for offending ya :) |
| 12:14.54 | mickeyl | at the end of the day what counts is getting things done. what is the use of an überflexible thing if it will never reach the user. lets rather start small this time and enhance as we have one part completed. |
| 12:14.56 | mirko-paroli | well you couldn't know what you stepped into |
| 12:15.07 | mirko-paroli | mickeyl: yepp agreed |
| 12:15.29 | mirko-paroli | mickeyl: btw do you have the time to test the unstable paroli images? |
| 12:16.01 | mickeyl | not yet, i'm just about to release the milestone5 refresh 5.1, then i will branch 5.5 for Angus, and then I have time to test paroli. |
| 12:16.10 | mirko-paroli | ah ok |
| 12:16.37 | mickeyl | is the SIM bug a problem for you? |
| 12:16.44 | mickeyl | should i try to fix it before 5.1 or not? |
| 12:16.52 | mickeyl | err |
| 12:16.53 | mickeyl | sms bug |
| 12:16.55 | mirko-paroli | mickeyl: we built around it for now |
| 12:17.03 | mickeyl | ok, good |
| 12:17.11 | mirko-paroli | we just manually delete from the sim after receiving |
| 12:17.38 | mirko-paroli | so sending and receiving works without probs now |
| 12:18.07 | mirko-paroli | of sms that is ofc |
| 12:18.44 | mirko-paroli | mickeyl: the fso distros don't suspend do they? |
| 12:19.17 | mirko-paroli | Will asked about it when I mentioned the screen-lock ... |
| 12:19.20 | mickeyl | autosuspend is deactivated by default |
| 12:19.29 | mickeyl | add a rule and it does |
| 12:19.36 | mirko-paroli | ah and will it wake up? |
| 12:19.44 | mickeyl | of course |
| 12:19.47 | mirko-paroli | i think i tried that by pressing the power button and then calling ... |
| 12:19.48 | mickeyl | suspend/resume is rock solid with ms5 |
| 12:19.49 | mirko-paroli | ah ok |
| 12:19.51 | mirko-paroli | nice |
| 12:19.52 | *** join/#openmoko cbrake (n=cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 12:19.57 | mirko-paroli | I'll give it a go :) |
| 12:20.07 | mickeyl | i'm using fso5 for my daily phone since monday |
| 12:20.17 | mirko-paroli | that's the only thing missing to me going to paroli daily |
| 12:20.17 | mirko-paroli | cool |
| 12:20.18 | mirko-paroli | congrats |
| 12:20.21 | mirko-paroli | zhone ? ;) |
| 12:20.35 | mickeyl | for now yeah, that's the thing I'm familiar with |
| 12:20.40 | mickeyl | hopefully soon paroli |
| 12:20.47 | mirko-paroli | hehe, hope so too :=) |
| 12:20.55 | mickeyl | i did also conduct standby tests |
| 12:20.56 | mickeyl | see here: |
| 12:21.10 | mickeyl | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/StandbyLifetime |
| 12:21.15 | mickeyl | i think that's quite amazing lifetime |
| 12:21.25 | mickeyl | (always suspended, of course) |
| 12:21.31 | mirko-paroli | 69h nice |
| 12:21.33 | *** join/#openmoko alx} (n=alx}--@134.95.88-79.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 12:21.39 | mirko-paroli | that is enough for me :) |
| 12:22.05 | mickeyl | yep, same here |
| 12:22.18 | mirko-paroli | need to flash every 24-48h anyhow ;) |
| 12:22.28 | mirko-paroli | should get my contacts saved on the sd instead ;) |
| 12:25.53 | sigi | mirko-paroli: on my last tests of paroli, in the Tele app: all the keys seem to be too far down, almost out of screen area.The space above the keys seems to be too big... |
| 12:25.57 | SpeedEvil | has a silly question. |
| 12:26.05 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: have you done any tests with GSM off? |
| 12:26.10 | mirko-paroli | sigi: the design is for 480x640 |
| 12:26.28 | sigi | mirko-paroli: thats what I'm using |
| 12:26.32 | mirko-paroli | sigi: we will change the image config to get that size and then it fits perfectly |
| 12:26.35 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: not yet, that should give a major boost though |
| 12:26.37 | *** join/#openmoko jrodger (n=jrodger@C-59-101-92-230.syd.connect.net.au) |
| 12:26.41 | mirko-paroli | well the illume top bar consumes space |
| 12:26.45 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: i expect we can get 100h then |
| 12:26.56 | sigi | mickeyl: ah, got it |
| 12:27.02 | mirko-paroli | sigi: and that we need to get |
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| 12:34.49 | *** join/#openmoko loca|host (n=tux@196.203.53.221) |
| 12:34.54 | *** join/#openmoko [-zeno-] (n=zeno@host134-111-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:37.06 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: this is 'just' halting the CPU, and restarting it, it's not going all the way into shutting down the CPU, and rebooting from 'cold' ? |
| 12:38.03 | lindi- | any tips on how to quickly build a faraday cage to block gsm signals? i need it to debug a bug |
| 12:38.45 | SpeedEvil | A) wrap it in foil |
| 12:38.57 | lindi- | is that enough? i guess i need to test with another phone |
| 12:39.11 | SpeedEvil | If you don't need USB, or ..., then yes, that'll work |
| 12:39.16 | SpeedEvil | a couple of layers, overlapped |
| 12:39.23 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: i can't unplug usb or the phone will wake |
| 12:39.45 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: otherwise i'd go to the underground parking lot |
| 12:39.52 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: simple suspend/resume, just as on your laptop |
| 12:39.55 | mickeyl | suspend to RAM |
| 12:40.17 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: unplugging the GSM antenna on the motherboard will give a bit less signal |
| 12:40.27 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: probably not enough to make it lose connection though |
| 12:40.57 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: i'd rather avoid that :) |
| 12:41.21 | SpeedEvil | Placing in a (unplugged) microwave may or may not work. |
| 12:45.02 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: good point, unfortunately that is too far away |
| 12:46.17 | laen | The microwave is too far away? :P You need a smaller house lindi-! |
| 12:46.41 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178011044.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:48.09 | lindi- | laen: well the usb cable is not long ehough :) |
| 12:48.18 | laen | oh hehe |
| 12:48.50 | laen | I'd go with tinfoil. |
| 12:51.12 | Karrde | I wonder if putting the FR inside a computer case would be enough |
| 12:51.37 | Karrde | Then the USB cable length wouldn't be a problem ;) |
| 12:52.38 | Wonka | the diameter of an usb cable should be less than GSM wavelength |
| 12:52.51 | Wonka | so one could solder a metal case the FR fits in |
| 12:52.55 | Wonka | ground that one |
| 12:53.31 | Wonka | and attach a metal door that has a hole in a corner big enough for the cable |
| 12:53.51 | lindi- | Karrde: definitely not |
| 12:54.05 | Wonka | and i think a ferromagnetic metal would be better, since the magnetic part of the EM wave cannot pass it, iirc |
| 12:54.06 | lindi- | but tinfoil seems to work |
| 12:54.38 | lindi- | now i need to somehow get the usb cable go out of the tinfoil without leaking |
| 12:56.34 | SpeedEvil | Wonka: not really |
| 12:56.50 | SpeedEvil | Wonka: aluminium shielding - if complete - will work fine |
| 12:58.26 | Wonka | SpeedEvil: yeah, needs to be thicker than the penetration depth of the magnetic part |
| 12:59.01 | Wonka | lindi-: as long as the hole is smaller than about 1/10 of the wavelength, it's ok. if i read wikipedia correct. |
| 12:59.45 | Wonka | the speed of light / (1800 megahertz) = 166.551366 millimeters |
| 12:59.50 | *** join/#openmoko Amygos (n=amygos@adsl-ull-12-234.49-151.net24.it) |
| 12:59.53 | Wonka | says google |
| 13:00.02 | Wonka | 16mm is waaaay enough for an usb cable |
| 13:05.15 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree (n=df@222.65.140.197) |
| 13:07.47 | mirko-paroli | mickeyl: just added the rule and it works |
| 13:07.47 | mirko-paroli | cool |
| 13:07.48 | mirko-paroli | thx |
| 13:07.55 | mirko-paroli | now I can use it daily :) |
| 13:08.01 | mirko-paroli | and see what I should build during the nights ;) |
| 13:09.58 | mickeyl | :) |
| 13:10.05 | mickeyl | toi toi toi |
| 13:10.32 | mirko-paroli | hehe thx |
| 13:10.34 | mickeyl | now that suspend/resume seems so solid, I'll probably make the rule the default soon |
| 13:10.51 | mirko-paroli | do you have a list of things one could add to the profile etc ? |
| 13:11.00 | mirko-paroli | like a cookbook |
| 13:11.05 | mirko-paroli | also for the rules? |
| 13:11.13 | mickeyl | not really |
| 13:11.24 | mickeyl | profile does not support more than ringtone atm. |
| 13:11.30 | mickeyl | we should add brightness and stuff there |
| 13:11.33 | mirko-paroli | ah ok |
| 13:11.54 | mickeyl | for the rules the possibilities are endless, just defined by the amount of triggers and actions we have |
| 13:12.05 | mickeyl | but i'm still not sure whether oeventsd is what we want |
| 13:12.11 | mickeyl | so that's why i didn't document that yet |
| 13:12.18 | mirko-paroli | ah ok |
| 13:12.35 | mirko-paroli | I am just tinkering with the vibration, actually more looking for it etc |
| 13:12.41 | mirko-paroli | have no vibration on messages |
| 13:12.48 | *** join/#openmoko janrikard1 (n=janrikar@ip-83-209-13-38.cenara.com) |
| 13:12.51 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@114-42-97-220.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 13:12.57 | mickeyl | ya, that's expected |
| 13:13.08 | mirko-paroli | ah ok |
| 13:13.09 | mickeyl | i guess the MessageToneAction does not use vibration yet |
| 13:13.18 | mickeyl | take a look in oeventsd/fso_actions.py |
| 13:14.06 | mickeyl | the whole actions and triggers have been added in an ad-hoc fashion, since i kind of still believe that a full-fledged telephony app will probably skip some of the rules, implementing some things on their own |
| 13:14.28 | mickeyl | really, the rules are just convenience and a starting point. |
| 13:14.38 | mickeyl | not a substitute for a managing app |
| 13:14.42 | mickeyl | or controller |
| 13:14.56 | soul9 | hum, laen, first boot is just black screen? |
| 13:15.25 | soul9 | laen: because even with the usb plugged in, all i get is black screen, X doesn't seem to start at all |
| 13:15.37 | soul9 | (qi, so black screen is normal as long as X isn't started) |
| 13:15.53 | mirko-paroli | mickeyl: messagetoneaction is not vibrating yet |
| 13:15.54 | mirko-paroli | ok |
| 13:16.48 | mirko-paroli | and in regards to skipping rules and implementing self, my 10 cents is, that I am rather happy with building rules etc in the framework using DBus |
| 13:20.34 | mickeyl | :) |
| 13:20.50 | mickeyl | i was almost sure you were thinking like that ;) |
| 13:20.57 | mickeyl | honestly though, it makes sense |
| 13:21.07 | mickeyl | that way we get a more accurate idea of what a full fledged UI needs |
| 13:21.19 | mickeyl | so i'm happy to get more use-cases and requirements for the rule engine |
| 13:21.27 | mickeyl | leading eventually to something really flexible and nice |
| 13:22.02 | mickeyl | it also means we have to port oeventsd to something faster though |
| 13:22.03 | mirko-paroli | mickeyl: am I that predictable ? |
| 13:22.07 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 13:22.11 | mickeyl | no no |
| 13:22.30 | mirko-paroli | LOL, well i guess in this case I am |
| 13:22.55 | mirko-paroli | coz as i said i think of paroli more as gui for the framework and its functions |
| 13:23.29 | mirko-paroli | and maybe if we get there at some point as a daemon layer to other progs/projects |
| 13:23.42 | mickeyl | *nod* |
| 13:24.10 | mirko-paroli | laen: btw if you wanna talk to the guy who built the core his nick is charlie137 |
| 13:24.21 | mirko-paroli | or use the devel list |
| 13:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@92-60-53-2.rev.bonet.sk) |
| 13:27.50 | mmp | Hello, anyone tried to use GPS on most recent kernel shipped with SHR unstable? |
| 13:28.04 | laen | k |
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| 13:31.40 | mirko-paroli | mickeyl: how is the suspend triggered |
| 13:31.49 | mirko-paroli | it seems it doesn't always fire when paroli is running |
| 13:31.59 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@213.158.72.21) |
| 13:32.21 | mickeyl | it's a timer |
| 13:32.35 | mickeyl | based on the idlenotifier |
| 13:32.39 | mickeyl | idlenotifier is a state machine |
| 13:32.42 | mickeyl | going through a couple of states |
| 13:32.45 | mickeyl | busy |
| 13:32.46 | mickeyl | idle |
| 13:32.47 | mickeyl | idle_dim |
| 13:32.49 | mickeyl | idle_prelock |
| 13:32.50 | mickeyl | lock |
| 13:32.52 | mickeyl | suspend |
| 13:33.05 | mickeyl | on every state change you get a signal |
| 13:33.05 | *** join/#openmoko lunartear (n=cayres@ip68-102-234-195.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 13:33.09 | mickeyl | and then you can react to that |
| 13:33.15 | mickeyl | (which is what the rules do) |
| 13:33.39 | mickeyl | requesting CPU or Display changes the state machine |
| 13:33.48 | mickeyl | i.e. if you request the CPU resource |
| 13:33.53 | mickeyl | you forbid falling into the suspend state |
| 13:34.05 | mickeyl | if you request 'Display', you will not fall into the idle_dim state |
| 13:34.22 | mickeyl | that allows for different usage styles |
| 13:34.39 | mickeyl | try opening an 'mdbus -s -l' session somewhere |
| 13:34.46 | mickeyl | then you can check whether the signals are sent in the first place |
| 13:35.00 | mirko-paroli | i have the log open |
| 13:35.01 | mickeyl | (yes, i should document all that, but my team is small...) |
| 13:35.13 | mirko-paroli | hehe no worries |
| 13:35.24 | mirko-paroli | I am in for writing documentation |
| 13:35.32 | mirko-paroli | so once I understand I can also document |
| 13:35.39 | mickeyl | ah, great |
| 13:35.59 | mirko-paroli | it doesn't go beyond lock right now ... |
| 13:36.01 | mirko-paroli | hmm ... |
| 13:36.11 | mickeyl | sounds like resource may be active? |
| 13:36.12 | mickeyl | err |
| 13:36.14 | mickeyl | CPU resource |
| 13:36.32 | mickeyl | or the timeout is too high |
| 13:36.34 | mirko-paroli | that would mean i requested it somewhere? |
| 13:36.41 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 13:36.46 | mickeyl | which you probably did not |
| 13:36.56 | mirko-paroli | nope |
| 13:37.04 | mirko-paroli | not that I know about it |
| 13:37.09 | mickeyl | let me check the default suspend timeout |
| 13:37.15 | mirko-paroli | 20 |
| 13:37.31 | mickeyl | right |
| 13:40.11 | *** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (n=AntonTak@poolofdespair.net) |
| 13:42.51 | mirko-paroli | mickeyl: hmm I get no automatic suspend |
| 13:43.17 | mirko-paroli | but it wakes up all right |
| 13:43.43 | mirko-paroli | hmm seems my rule got lost ... |
| 13:43.46 | mirko-paroli | anyhow |
| 13:43.52 | mirko-paroli | will look more into it tomorrow or sth |
| 13:44.57 | mickeyl | k, if the problems persist, ping us again |
| 13:45.34 | *** join/#openmoko Digital_Pioneer (n=digitalp@h65.198.255.206.cable.srcy.cablelynx.com) |
| 13:45.52 | mirko-paroli | k |
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| 14:07.21 | panicking | mickeyl: Hi again, I have some strange behvior after resume of the calypso |
| 14:07.43 | panicking | I heard noise on incoming call, if I use the muxer initizialization |
| 14:07.56 | panicking | without muxing the channel the sound is perfect |
| 14:08.20 | panicking | again |
| 14:08.42 | panicking | I use only one channel, so the only differnet is using or not using the mux channel |
| 14:09.21 | mirko-paroli | k an early day for me, have a nice day everyone |
| 14:09.32 | sigi | mirko-paroli: bye |
| 14:10.43 | *** join/#openmoko los (n=los@194.29.137.44) |
| 14:11.42 | mickeyl | panicking: that sounds strange. are you sure you use %N187 command? |
| 14:11.49 | mickeyl | this is noise gate and echo filter |
| 14:12.02 | mickeyl | and it seems it has to be issued before every call |
| 14:12.19 | *** part/#openmoko los (n=los@194.29.137.44) |
| 14:12.42 | panicking | The gsm part is the same |
| 14:12.58 | panicking | using: gsm+mux noise |
| 14:13.04 | panicking | using: gsm+serial |
| 14:13.07 | panicking | is ok |
| 14:13.12 | mickeyl | no idea on that one |
| 14:13.16 | panicking | I send the command |
| 14:13.17 | panicking | ok |
| 14:13.19 | panicking | thanks |
| 14:13.22 | mickeyl | sorry |
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| 14:19.34 | panicking | micheyl: how are you sure that the write done by the ogsmd arrives to gsmmuxd before the system is suspend? |
| 14:20.06 | panicking | Maybe it can be happen, that I send some command, but I don't have time to send to the serial device |
| 14:20.20 | panicking | before device suspend |
| 14:20.21 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@xsftbnupc07.upc.es) |
| 14:21.44 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r345625aa72dc 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: otapi: CbGetCellBroadcastSubscriptions: remove shadowing the error module |
| 14:22.11 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r7252c7959acb 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/cinterion_mc75/channel.py: ogsmd: [CINTERION MC75] remove low level initialization; not necessary with good muxers ;) |
| 14:22.39 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r7d358eceb89b 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/cinterion_mc75/modem.py: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO] use fso-abyss |
| 14:23.28 | mickeyl | ogsmd waits for all commands to be process before triggering suspend |
| 14:24.18 | mickeyl | we wait for the actual 'OK' or 'ERROR' response for every command |
| 14:24.24 | mickeyl | otherwise you have race conditions |
| 14:24.41 | panicking | Yes you all right |
| 14:24.44 | panicking | the response is ok |
| 14:24.53 | panicking | I think that there are some control packet |
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| 14:35.28 | kait | hello, i am trying to get the qemu emulator running. With the MokoMakefile everything works fine until it comes to "flashing" the virtual device. All i get then is: U-boot failed to finish writing in 60 seconds, giving up. Whats wrong? |
| 14:37.17 | kait | The same thing happens when i try it the "manual"-way as described in the wiki. |
| 14:41.39 | evolux | can someone tell me who is responsible for projects.openmoko.org, i.e. some mail address? |
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| 15:07.32 | rhkfin | Where to find the next community newsletter draft? |
| 15:08.33 | rhkfin | Found it, thanks :) |
| 15:08.45 | Zorkman | no problem :p |
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| 16:54.18 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * r1f677a0ff49f 10/src/serial.vala: |
| 16:54.18 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: serial: support priorities for read and write watches. |
| 16:54.18 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: NOTE: This needs yet another patch against vala which I'm going to send upstream. |
| 16:55.34 | lindi- | aiee, patches to compilers |
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| 17:12.27 | bricode | Anyone know how to turn off the accelermeters using /sys? |
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| 17:16.38 | Zorkman | bricode: maybe set the threshhold to enourmously high? |
| 17:16.56 | bricode | Zorkman: Okay, but is there an interface in /sys to do that? |
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| 17:19.49 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * r94e934994602 10/src/ (channel.vala consts.vala serial.vala): increase read priority on pty's to get better latency on long answers (in other VCs) |
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| 17:20.48 | spydon | If I have the freerunner connected to my computer how can I get the sound that should come from the fr speakers to come from the computer speakers? |
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| 17:43.26 | kd8ikt | bricode: hows android |
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| 17:44.00 | bricode | kd8ikt: Coming along. I've got a cupcake build working now of the latest released code. Am fixing some of the issues with the new code base. |
| 17:44.30 | kd8ikt | yeah i just compiled the koolu git tree yesterday |
| 17:44.41 | kd8ikt | dunno what to do with it :D |
| 17:44.46 | kd8ikt | but it compiled yay |
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| 17:45.49 | bricode | kd8ikt: There's a channel dedicated to Android on the Freerunner. It's #freerunner-android |
| 17:46.05 | bricode | kd8ikt: Questions about Android are best directed there. |
| 17:46.18 | kd8ikt | coolness |
| 17:46.30 | kd8ikt | i 'm gonna hang out there |
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| 18:11.37 | rhkfin | Has anyone been able to make yaouh run on desktop? |
| 18:11.50 | rhkfin | This is what it gives me: http://pastebin.com/d75f5c0ae |
| 18:12.06 | rhkfin | Running on Ubuntu 8.10, trying on tupdate 300K of tiles |
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| 18:14.54 | laen | Charging through the usb-cable.. is that disabled by setting usb_mode to host instead of device, or is that disabled by setting hostmode to 1? |
| 18:16.00 | laen | Ah, hostmode it seems. |
| 18:16.51 | lindi- | yep |
| 18:16.53 | lindi- | GTA02_sysfs says it |
| 18:17.39 | laen | So getting a "powered" usb hub, connecting one cable from neo to the hub, and the keyboard to the hub.. i can have a working keyboard _and_ charge the neo.. right? |
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| 18:18.01 | laen | Oh i believe i asked that allready :P |
| 18:18.31 | laen | To you that is :) |
| 18:19.01 | lindi- | laen: nope |
| 18:19.15 | laen | nope as in i didn't ask you or nope that can't be done? |
| 18:19.17 | lindi- | laen: to downstream hub ports can't talk to each other |
| 18:19.20 | lindi- | s/to/two/ |
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| 18:20.05 | lindi- | laen: USB unfortunately can not be compared to ethernet in any way |
| 18:20.46 | laen | But whats the difference.. you can set the usb to host usb_mode, without providing the 5v to the device.. |
| 18:20.53 | laen | It's like with a normal pc.. |
| 18:21.10 | lindi- | laen: you can't connect normal pc to the downstream port of a hub |
| 18:21.22 | lindi- | laen: and the upstream port is not powered |
| 18:21.36 | laen | Ah so you have to allways power the usb port? |
| 18:21.53 | lindi- | laen: you have to modify a usb hub to make this |
| 18:23.02 | laen | But what is the idea behind powered usb hubs then if powering them doesn't help devices? |
| 18:23.20 | lindi- | laen: it helps devices |
| 18:23.25 | lindi- | laen: it powers the downstream ports |
| 18:23.44 | laen | Ah and cause the moko is in host mode it doesn't get powered.. |
| 18:24.08 | lindi- | laen: if you connect fr to downstream port it will be powered |
| 18:24.21 | lindi- | laen: but it can't talk to any other device then |
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| 18:28.48 | laen | Hmmm. Hey do you know if bluetooth is working then? |
| 18:29.08 | lindi- | laen: should be |
| 18:29.30 | laen | Never tried bluetooth, ever :) Have it on my laptop but.. haven't even installed bluez :p |
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| 18:30.04 | lindi- | i'm currently trying to recover from the shock that while freerunner can appear as mass storage device and ethernet device it can not be made to look like an usb keyboard if i read the specs right. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-February/004791.html |
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| 18:35.31 | laen | DOesn't have infrared right? |
| 18:35.38 | lindi- | laen: no ;) |
| 18:35.49 | lindi- | would be quite useful actually |
| 18:35.55 | lindi- | to make it a remote |
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| 18:36.04 | laen | Yeah found a nice supersmall keyboard, but it's IR. |
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| 18:36.07 | lindi- | full irda would not be necessary |
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| 18:36.55 | laen | http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Product_Id=157612# << the one i found :) |
| 18:37.31 | lindi- | laen: nice way to broadcast everything you type :) |
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| 18:45.48 | laen | Yeah! :D |
| 18:46.31 | laen | But if i use the openmoko constantly not in suspend, it'll be 1 hour and it's empty or so. |
| 18:46.56 | lindi- | laen: really? it seems to be around 5-6 hours here |
| 18:47.07 | laen | Well tbh i never tried hehe. |
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| 18:53.06 | root_at | hey, i cant switch to fullscreen mode with omview...does anyone have any other imageviewer(for shr), outer neon? |
| 18:53.53 | root_at | or can someone tell me why its not working? there are names of files everywhere(thumbnail mode) but no pics, and with down i should get into the fullscreen mode but i doesnt work |
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| 19:18.04 | toggles_w | who |
| 19:18.06 | toggles_w | broke |
| 19:18.08 | toggles_w | mofi |
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| 19:18.09 | toggles_w | > |
| 19:18.11 | toggles_w | ? |
| 19:18.46 | rhkfin | Did it ever really work? |
| 19:18.56 | toggles_w | aww.. i dunno, i hoped.. |
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| 19:35.25 | torpor_ | sup |
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| 20:14.34 | simoo | Hi if I have flashed to use qi can I flash back to uboot? |
| 20:14.54 | lindi- | simoo: sure |
| 20:15.40 | simoo | lindi oh good thanks, also can I make the fixes that enable it to boot kernels larger than 2meg perminant? |
| 20:15.52 | lindi- | simoo: sure? |
| 20:16.55 | simoo | lindi: where do i download the most recent uboot? |
| 20:18.49 | henk | simoo: why do you want to use uboot? |
| 20:19.12 | lindi- | simoo: git.openmoko.org |
| 20:19.37 | simoo | because i am running android and there is a really strange problem; If i use qi I can not add contacts |
| 20:21.34 | simoo | lindi: thanks, urm... what file do I download? |
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| 20:23.31 | sigi | hi |
| 20:27.12 | lindi- | simoo: you clone the git repo and compile it |
| 20:27.24 | lindi- | simoo: qi should have nothing to do with contacts though |
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| 20:29.48 | simoo | lindi: I know it shouldn't, it's so strange, is there an image I can flash not sure if I know how to compile stuff |
| 20:30.04 | lindi- | simoo: i don't do images, sorry |
| 20:30.07 | henk | simoo: um right, so you think it's an issue with the bootloader. that seems logical to me. |
| 20:31.13 | simoo | henk: yeah, this post seems to point that way http://forum.koolu.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=81&p=690&hilit=add+contact#p690 |
| 20:31.59 | henk | great forum... requires registration for reading. |
| 20:32.13 | simoo | yeah that kind of sucks |
| 20:32.17 | Defiant-_ | henk: bugmenot |
| 20:32.36 | henk | Defiant-_: hm? |
| 20:32.53 | simoo | it's really just a couple of people confirming that you can add contacts when using uboot but not qi |
| 20:32.54 | Defiant-_ | henk: bugmenot.com |
| 20:33.09 | PaulFertser | simoo: the advice is as good as the forum it seems :p |
| 20:33.15 | Defiant-_ | henk: the firefox addon is quite useful |
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| 20:33.38 | henk | PaulFertser: ack |
| 20:33.51 | henk | simoo: then the bugs are in uboot and android... |
| 20:34.15 | simoo | you mean qi, it works with uboot |
| 20:35.41 | simoo | so is it advised to use qi, that is the replacement for uboot yes? |
| 20:36.19 | PaulFertser | simoo: qi is bootloader, uboot is bootloader, nothing to do with any contacts whatsoever |
| 20:36.37 | henk | simoo: no, i mean uboot. |
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| 20:36.46 | PaulFertser | simoo: if you like uboot and it works for you, no problems, use it. |
| 20:36.57 | simoo | PaulFertser: it would seem that is not the case |
| 20:37.28 | PaulFertser | simoo: tell koolu that their forum sucks. Mailing lists are so much better ;) |
| 20:37.34 | simoo | PaulFertser: is there an image anywhere that I can flash to get back to uboot? |
| 20:37.45 | simoo | PaulFertser: Yeah I will |
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| 20:38.34 | PaulFertser | simoo: http://people.openmoko.org/andy but i advice to use Qi, it has some bugs fixed, esp. with some large uSD cards. And it boots faster. And less tricky to set up, etc. I'm Qi advocate. |
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| 20:39.11 | simoo | PaulFertser: ok thanks :) |
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| 20:40.02 | henk | simoo: perhaps uboot does something funny for contacts to work, and qi doesn't do that? that's what i mean with bug in uboot. it shouldn't do such a thing. |
| 20:40.33 | PaulFertser | henk: what contacts are you talking about? |
| 20:40.35 | simoo | henk: i see, thanks, i'm gunna test it for myself and post up some info |
| 20:40.55 | simoo | I can hardly believe a boot loader has that effect |
| 20:41.05 | PaulFertser | simoo++ |
| 20:41.07 | henk | PaulFertser: the contacts that work for simoo with uboot but not with qi |
| 20:41.56 | PaulFertser | henk: what contacts? |
| 20:42.01 | PaulFertser | henk: sim contacts? |
| 20:42.09 | henk | PaulFertser: s/henk/simoo/ |
| 20:42.33 | henk | PaulFertser: i'm just referring to what he said. |
| 20:42.54 | PaulFertser | henk: why do you advice him to try different bootloader if you're talking about sim contacts? |
| 20:43.13 | simoo | PaulFertser: When running android, I can not add a contact, apparantly I could if I used uboot instead of qi - as strange as that sounds |
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| 20:43.24 | henk | PaulFertser: argh, do you have any idea what he and i were talking about? |
| 20:43.48 | henk | PaulFertser: do me a favor and scroll up just like 10 minutes. |
| 20:43.49 | PaulFertser | henk: i have an idea about bootloaders |
| 20:44.33 | PaulFertser | henk: you're talking about contacts and bootloaders. Contacts in the "PIM" sense? |
| 20:44.55 | henk | PaulFertser: good then explain him that it's probably uboot that does too much, not qi _not_ doing something that is needed for 'contacts' (see simoo's statement) in android to work. |
| 20:45.45 | PaulFertser | henk: i can't on earth understand what contacts are you talking about. If it's the SIM phonebook, then i see no technical possibility for bootloader to have any effect on them. |
| 20:46.38 | simoo | i don't think it's adding contacts to the sim but to the phone |
| 20:47.42 | henk | PaulFertser: please talk to simoo about the details. i'm just using the word 'contacts' because he is using it. |
| 20:48.31 | PaulFertser | henk: why are you talking about bootloaders then? Have you seen Qi's source? Have you seen u-boot source? |
| 20:48.41 | simoo | thanks for the help guys, i'll let you know what happens and explain if it's worth it |
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| 20:50.08 | henk | PaulFertser: you're messing with me, right? |
| 20:51.11 | PaulFertser | henk: No, i'm just hinting that changing bootloaders is not exactly the right thing to try when you have unrelated userspace problems. |
| 20:54.31 | henk | PaulFertser: i am saying "going from qi back to uboot is not the right way when something doesn't work with qi" |
| 20:55.08 | PaulFertser | henk: funny thing, i'm saying the same :) |
| 20:55.12 | PaulFertser | henk: sorry then |
| 20:55.45 | henk | PaulFertser: i know! that's why i thought you were messing with me... good that's cleared up :) what's next? |
| 20:55.54 | PaulFertser | henk: "< henk> simoo: perhaps uboot does something funny for contacts to work" this is what i disagree with |
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| 20:57.05 | henk | PaulFertser: i guess since qi is focused on doing as little as possible to get a system running, qi must be doing 'too much'? |
| 20:57.20 | henk | PaulFertser: i guess since qi is focused on doing as little as possible to get a system running, _uboot_ must be doing 'too much'? |
| 20:57.29 | henk | sorry |
| 20:58.02 | PaulFertser | henk: no, imho the initial guess that it's bootloader dependent is incorrect. |
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| 20:59.06 | henk | PaulFertser: ah ok. might be possible, but if that's what people say... 'shrug' |
| 21:00.07 | PaulFertser | henk: don't forget it's android users who say it at some stupid forum ;) |
| 21:00.26 | henk | :-p |
| 21:03.13 | mmp | Hello, sorry for repeating question; is there anyone, who has most recent SHR kernel (from 8.2.2009) and uses GPS? |
| 21:04.52 | PaulFertser | mmp: are you sure that problems are kernel-related? |
| 21:05.13 | mmp | PaulFertser: long story short, cat /dev/ttySAC1 just ends immediately, with no output |
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| 21:05.33 | mmp | and there are some weird rxerr errors in dmesg |
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| 21:06.42 | mmp | Also, I can't get fix and the GPS date is permanently on 1999-11-30 |
| 21:06.43 | Fougner | hello :D |
| 21:06.48 | Fougner | hey mmp! |
| 21:07.00 | mmp | Fougner: hello :) |
| 21:07.06 | Fougner | long time no see |
| 21:07.30 | PaulFertser | mmp: i see, don't know serial in enough details, sorry... |
| 21:07.50 | mmp | PaulFertser: np :) |
| 21:08.12 | mmp | Fougner: yes... I've been (and unfortunately also I am) busy with school and work :-( |
| 21:08.26 | Fougner | hehe |
| 21:08.48 | Fougner | so, what's new ? :D |
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| 21:20.01 | mmp | Fougner: not much... didn't have time to have a look on pymuse recently .. |
| 21:21.48 | Fougner | too bad |
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| 21:26.15 | Karrde | lets see if Qi still causes wsod with the latest andy tracking kernel |
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| 21:29.17 | Karrde | And it does. Granted, I have 2008.12, the dead distribution as discussed earlier. |
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| 21:36.42 | Fougner | :D |
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| 21:44.52 | simoo | Hi, i am trying to flash a uboot image but keep getting a dfu_download error can someone help? |
| 21:45.18 | henk | simoo: check dmesg when connecting your FR |
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| 21:46.31 | simoo | henk:it seems alright, it starts flashing then fails after about 5 hashes |
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| 21:58.02 | simoo | well, it's true... I changed to uboot and now I can add and import contacts |
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| 22:03.49 | PaulFertser | simoo: what have you tweaked in your u-boot env? |
| 22:04.26 | simoo | PaulFertser: nothing, I didn't need to as the most recent android kernel is 2mb |
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| 22:05.40 | PaulFertser | simoo: please show your "cat /proc/cmdline " |
| 22:06.51 | simoo | how do I get that up? |
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| 22:15.36 | Pyrasi | hi all |
| 22:16.09 | Pyrasi | so I'm trying to install e17 on my debian install, but i keep getting: e17: Depends: e17-data (= 0.16.999.050+svn20081207-2~fr.1) but 1:0.16.999.050+svn20090130-1 is to be installed |
| 22:16.16 | Pyrasi | has anyone else run into this? |
| 22:16.30 | Pyrasi | and is there an updated package anywhere that gets around this dependancy problem? |
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| 22:55.52 | sigi | hi |
| 22:56.40 | |Marco| | peek a boh |
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| 22:57.10 | |Marco| | *booh |
| 22:59.20 | sigi | someone familiar with FSO here? |
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| 23:00.55 | sigi | What signals do I have to send to fso that it doesn't dim/suspend when a program (paroli) is running? |
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| 23:32.12 | peppertarts | sigi: Use org.freesmartphone.Usage.RequestResource to request Display |
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| 23:38.04 | sigi | peppertarts: thanks, I'll try that as soon as I have fso running "normal" again, I somehow screwed up the resolution :) |
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| 23:57.44 | mirko-paroli | thx sigi |
| 23:57.50 | mirko-paroli | for the ticket that is :) |
| 23:58.24 | mirko-paroli | n8 everyone |