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| 01:22.22 | slaxxin | mwesters latest stable kernel with bytstores 2008.12 modification |
| 01:25.07 | slaxxin | when is SHR going to drop |
| 01:25.39 | slaxxin | will it have the ,28 kernel when it is released? |
| 01:26.02 | slaxxin | will it still segfault |
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| 01:31.26 | davi | I would like one of the next OpenMoko 100% Free Software mobiles would include a hardware similar to the |
| 01:31.28 | davi | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:31.57 | davi | QWERTY keyboard, camera, video recording, etc. |
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| 01:44.39 | Dave | omc, anybody? |
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| 02:54.00 | niv | ok, guys... |
| 02:54.30 | niv | i have some situation in which my freerunner simply crashes |
| 02:55.12 | niv | i use debian and an 8 GB mmc memory |
| 02:55.42 | niv | i run on battery |
| 02:55.48 | niv | and i start a gprs session |
| 02:55.50 | niv | voila |
| 02:57.28 | niv | after rebooting my freerunner there seems to be no evidence |
| 02:57.31 | niv | (the perfect crime) |
| 02:59.09 | slaxxin | is it a neopwn? |
| 02:59.29 | niv | its a freerunner :) |
| 03:00.07 | niv | or what do you mean? |
| 03:00.42 | slaxxin | http://www.neopwn.com/software.php |
| 03:01.33 | slaxxin | i cant get my debian to boot with Qi:9 |
| 03:02.14 | niv | i still use the original uboot shipped with it :) |
| 03:05.34 | niv | and i think its not neopwn, what i have here. |
| 03:05.53 | niv | its something between debian sid and debian experimental.. with an openmoko 2.6.28 kernel |
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| 05:06.34 | slaxxin | dave u got an HTC touch or something? |
| 05:06.50 | slaxxin | those work pretty smooth |
| 05:07.17 | slaxxin | my neighbor has i |
| 05:07.21 | slaxxin | 1 |
| 05:07.48 | slaxxin | but he cant play Duke Nukem on it:) |
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| 05:33.41 | Toaster` | Has anyone attempted pairing a FR with a Blacberry plantronics 655 via bluetooth? |
| 05:34.02 | Toaster` | I'm rather new to BT and am slightly lost |
| 05:35.41 | Toaster` | I can scanand see the device, but I'm at a loss as to how to connect it |
| 05:37.10 | slaxxin | select a picture then options tab should say send or sometimes something stupid |
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| 05:37.44 | slaxxin | pair with the device |
| 05:38.30 | Toaster` | slaxxin: are you responding to me? |
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| 08:07.40 | josch | mickey|zzZZzz: ping :D |
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| 08:58.39 | docscrutinizer2 | moin |
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| 09:03.35 | hipitihop | waves to the residents |
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| 10:32.03 | p3t3r__ | Hi all, just got a used (and non-working FreeRunner). Timestamp is 20080618. All I can say to now, is that it doesn't switch on, but as i don't have a volt meter this could be even due to an empty battery |
| 10:32.54 | leinir | Hook it up to the wall charger and leave it to sit for a while (like half an hour or so) |
| 10:33.00 | Kamping_Kaiser | does it power up if you plug it in over usb/via the charger without the battery? |
| 10:33.18 | shellevil | 6 hour |
| 10:33.37 | leinir | Then hold in the AUX button (the square one at the top) and press the power button :) |
| 10:35.45 | p3t3r__ | Kamping_Kaiser: No, it doesn't... |
| 10:36.44 | p3t3r__ | leinir: Thanks. Assuming that this won't work either, any chance to get it working again? Maybe using a debug board? |
| 10:37.12 | leinir | That i don't know, i'm afraid :) |
| 10:37.25 | Kamping_Kaiser | p3t3r__, do you have an idea why it no longer works ? |
| 10:37.43 | leinir | This is just how i do it when i run out of battery, which unfortunately happens every once in a while :) |
| 10:38.37 | p3t3r__ | Kamping_Kaiser: Well, the guy that sold it to me said that it just stopped working some days ago.. didn't mention that it was due to a flashing error or something like that |
| 10:40.17 | Kamping_Kaiser | p3t3r__, pity theres not a lot to work on (as to why it no longer works). |
| 10:42.33 | p3t3r__ | Kamping_Kaiser: I know. Would be great to know more, but unfortunately I don't. I will ask the seller again, and maybe he remembers some extra details, now that I bought the unit ;) |
| 10:43.10 | p3t3r__ | besides: Which hardware revision is it? Any ideas? 20080618 sounds rather old, doesn't it? |
| 10:44.11 | leinir | That's the first run, i believe... |
| 10:44.11 | leinir | same as mine |
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| 10:44.11 | leinir | So it's not got the GPS fix |
| 10:44.53 | leinir | you'll be able to verify that by looking at the SD slot - if there's a tiny component between two of the legs, it's got the GPS fix :) |
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| 10:48.25 | p3t3r__ | leinir: I guess that the lacking GPS fix isn't a huge problem (at least while I not using GPS)? |
| 10:50.05 | leinir | Not really, no :) |
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| 11:31.05 | p3t3r__ | so thanks for now.. have to leave. |
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| 12:05.44 | badcloud | hey y'all |
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| 12:13.52 | davi | I would like one of the next OpenMoko 100% Free Software mobiles would include a hardware similar to the |
| 12:13.52 | davi | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:13.52 | davi | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:13.55 | davi | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:14.37 | davi | HTC_Dream has the hardware locked and so I can not install my modified Linux kernel |
| 12:14.46 | PaulFertser_ | davi: easily unlocked |
| 12:15.11 | davi | PaulFertser_, via software or hardware? |
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| 12:15.18 | davi | Flashing ROM? |
| 12:15.28 | davi | Any URL? |
| 12:15.35 | davi | <PROTECTED> |
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| 12:15.38 | PaulFertser_ | davi: just install old firmware version, then flash the modified bootloader, then install whatever you want. No special hardware required. |
| 12:16.07 | PaulFertser_ | davi: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=455860 |
| 12:16.12 | davi | thanks |
| 12:16.15 | davi | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:16.24 | PaulFertser_ | davi: please report the results! |
| 12:16.26 | davi | So the hardware locked part is solved. |
| 12:17.05 | davi | What about the software part? That is to say, is all the Android software 100% _free software_? |
| 12:17.19 | Kamping_Kaiser | tried asking an android channel? |
| 12:17.25 | Kamping_Kaiser | these all seem reasonably OT here |
| 12:17.45 | davi | sorry |
| 12:17.50 | davi | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:18.23 | PaulFertser_ | Kamping_Kaiser: i hope i can encourage some hacker to port FSO to HTC dream, so not that OT |
| 12:18.27 | PaulFertser_ | ;) |
| 12:18.32 | Kamping_Kaiser | PaulFertser_, :) |
| 12:18.34 | davi | What I would like is OpenMoko releasing a phone with similar hardware capabilities to avoid all the mess-hacking with the HTC Dream |
| 12:18.47 | Kamping_Kaiser | davi, re your last question, afaik all thre bits that integrate with google are non-free |
| 12:19.02 | PaulFertser_ | davi: kernel is 100% free, as to A itself -- as free as on FR, i think i can give you a link to what components are closed. |
| 12:19.20 | davi | Kamping_Kaiser, I see.Well I am not interesting in "Google integration" :) |
| 12:19.42 | PaulFertser_ | davi: we can't expect such a phone from OM. Too many reasons, but it's just not possible. |
| 12:20.11 | davi | PaulFertser_, due to mobile network security? |
| 12:20.25 | PaulFertser_ | davi: it would be cool if someone ported some fully non-A distribution to Dream, not debian chroot, like many run. |
| 12:20.37 | PaulFertser_ | davi: basically due to low production volumes. |
| 12:21.19 | davi | PaulFertser_, So, you advice buy and HTC dream instead of an OpenMoko? |
| 12:21.28 | davi | advise* |
| 12:21.34 | davi | an* |
| 12:22.06 | PaulFertser_ | davi: only if you're a dedicated hacker with experience who wants to port FSO to Dream. Otherwise, not ;) |
| 12:22.52 | davi | PaulFertser_, What do you mean by "FSO"? |
| 12:23.29 | PaulFertser_ | davi: http://freesmartphone.org |
| 12:23.44 | davi | I am looking at it ... |
| 12:23.52 | PaulFertser_ | davi: list of proprietary A components (not very relevant for porting FSO, but still): http://www.telesphoreo.org/pipermail/g1-hackers/2009-January/000495.html |
| 12:24.26 | davi | I am looking at it ... |
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| 12:25.20 | davi | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:25.48 | badcloud | has anyone found a way to install minimo on shr? |
| 12:26.02 | davi | Is there any possibility of getting a work for telecommute as developer for this free software projects? |
| 12:26.52 | PaulFertser_ | davi: telecommute? |
| 12:26.58 | Gromgull1 | badcloud - opkg install with opkg.org repository enabled? |
| 12:27.00 | davi | PaulFertser_, Telework |
| 12:27.06 | Gromgull1 | oh actually - you need to do -force-depends |
| 12:27.14 | Gromgull1 | it needs gtk+fastscaling, which is now called gtk+ |
| 12:27.21 | davi | PaulFertser_, Telework being located at Europe |
| 12:27.22 | Gromgull1 | just make sure that is installed and then force-deps install minimo |
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| 12:28.42 | badcloud | I think I tried that, gives me an md5sum error |
| 12:29.56 | badcloud | on libxft2 |
| 12:32.51 | badcloud | http://mibbit.com/pb/Orad2V |
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| 12:38.12 | badcloud | hey there, doc |
| 12:40.43 | Gromgull1 | badcloud: i don't know - but adding the om2007 repository to SHR seems like asking for trouble |
| 12:41.24 | badcloud | right, I'll remove that. only did that to add openmoko-dates2+tasks2 |
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| 12:43.07 | badcloud | done |
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| 12:43.45 | badcloud | thanks |
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| 12:49.43 | gromgull | It worked now? |
| 12:50.39 | badcloud | I can try again, but I remember trying before adding the repo and it not working |
| 12:50.49 | badcloud | trying now |
| 12:54.40 | badcloud | nope http://mibbit.com/pb/itsvjt |
| 12:56.03 | gromgull | and this is where you need -force-depends |
| 12:56.10 | gromgull | the package IS probably installed as gtk+ |
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| 12:56.28 | badcloud | that's what I thought |
| 12:56.33 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 12:56.34 | badcloud | but how can I convince opkg? |
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| 12:57.03 | gromgull | opkg -force-depends install minimo |
| 12:57.12 | gromgull | will convert the dependency error to a warning |
| 12:57.55 | badcloud | worth a shot |
| 12:59.42 | badcloud | http://mibbit.com/pb/aHrSPV again, no dice |
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| 13:01.15 | gromgull | type what I did :) Force-depends before install |
| 13:01.44 | badcloud | just flat out 'opkg -force-depends'? |
| 13:03.43 | gromgull | install minimo |
| 13:04.06 | badcloud | I did that, only with the ipk link |
| 13:04.19 | badcloud | minimo isn't in the repo list in shr |
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| 13:05.09 | gromgull | add the opkg.org repository |
| 13:06.08 | badcloud | how |
| 13:06.09 | badcloud | ? |
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| 13:06.37 | badcloud | or rather, where do I find the .conf file? |
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| 13:08.55 | gromgull | echo "src/gz opkgorg http://www.opkg.org/packages" > /etc/opkg/opkg-feed.conf |
| 13:09.13 | badcloud | thanks again |
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| 13:12.20 | badcloud | http://mibbit.com/pb/MqOWVd I can't imagine why I would think it would end differently |
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| 14:22.48 | *** join/#openmoko mrmoku|away (n=mrmoku@ppp-93-104-100-81.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 14:23.11 | *** join/#openmoko divanorama (n=divan@ivanco.convex.ru) |
| 14:33.27 | *** join/#openmoko methril|laptop (n=methril@169.73.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 14:34.22 | *** join/#openmoko madxray (n=madxray@dslb-088-073-239-239.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:37.31 | madxray | hi. If have strange behavior with wifi: WPA connection is established and I'm sshing into FR but I can neither ping the AP nor reach anything else beside members of the LAN. routes are ok..any clue? known problem? |
| 14:38.33 | lindi- | madxray: you ssh over wifi? |
| 14:39.04 | madxray | japp from laptop via WPA into FR |
| 14:40.00 | madxray | after starting second dropbear instance for FR's IP:22 it was no problem |
| 14:40.11 | madxray | Distro is OM2008.12 |
| 14:40.47 | *** join/#openmoko PaulFert` (n=PaulFert@ppp91-77-8-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 14:42.01 | *** join/#openmoko methril|laptop (n=methril@169.73.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 14:44.44 | lindi- | madxray: tcpdump -s0 -w d -i eth0 |
| 14:44.45 | lindi- | madxray: then send something via ssh, and try to ping it over wifi |
| 14:49.42 | *** join/#openmoko joerg_42 (n=jr-N810@p5493DA24.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:51.00 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@g226210012.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:52.03 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 14:57.36 | *** join/#openmoko chris_debian (n=chris_de@host86-148-127-173.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:58.24 | *** join/#openmoko mac2k (n=mac2k@ip-88-152-139-166.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 15:01.33 | *** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i59F7C669.versanet.de) |
| 15:02.16 | chris_debian | Hi, all. I was stupid enough to buy a Google 'phone because I thought the OM was still having teething troubles. I notice that GTA03 is a long way off and may not have 3G. Would this have any issues with using satnav/ gps software? Forgive my stupid question. |
| 15:03.12 | *** join/#openmoko madxray (n=madxray@dslb-088-073-185-042.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:03.48 | lindi- | chris_debian: what has 3g to do with gps? |
| 15:05.41 | madxray | lindi-: it happens again and I could not recognise anything special |
| 15:06.20 | *** join/#openmoko Amygos (n=amygos@adsl-ull-74-236.49-151.net24.it) |
| 15:06.55 | chris_debian | lindi- i don't know, I'm trying to work out what 3G does for the mobile phone. |
| 15:07.31 | Wonka | chris_debian: even with GPRS you can download AGPS assist data in less than 10 seconds - i see no other possible connection between 2.5G/3G and GPS |
| 15:07.51 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@94.36.93.49) |
| 15:08.01 | *** join/#openmoko Piet (i=pietor@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xC5C71DCE) |
| 15:09.31 | chris_debian | Wonka, thanks for that. I thought I'd ask a straightforward question, rather than googling forever. I may need to eBay my G1 and buy an Openmoko (as I should have done in the first place). |
| 15:09.49 | Wonka | *g* |
| 15:10.20 | PaulFertser | chris_debian: do you by any chance want to port FSO to G1? |
| 15:10.40 | chris_debian | Paul, FSO? |
| 15:11.02 | Wonka | er... doesn't the customer version of G1 only take signed stuffà |
| 15:11.03 | Wonka | ? |
| 15:11.19 | PaulFertser | Wonka: can be easily rooted |
| 15:11.34 | Wonka | and btw, i think laforge is right with his anger about that signed binary stuff |
| 15:11.39 | chris_debian | Wonka, if I understand your question, you can set-up your "sources" to be installed from non-official places. |
| 15:11.47 | PaulFertser | chris_debian: http://freesmartphone.org the telephony stack used on FR and probably will be used for other HTCs as well. |
| 15:12.11 | chris_debian | I just don't see why I should have to mod my phone to get root. I stupidly believed Google when they open-sourced the phone on the date of release! |
| 15:12.31 | Defiant- | android is open source, not the rest |
| 15:12.34 | Wonka | chris_debian: which would not help if it verified the code was signed by some special CA |
| 15:12.35 | chris_debian | Paul, will have a look. I'm not a coder, just a die hard GNU/Linux fan. |
| 15:12.51 | PaulFertser | Defiant-: for you reference: http://www.telesphoreo.org/pipermail/g1-hackers/2009-January/000495.html |
| 15:12.58 | PaulFertser | Defiant-: A is _not_ open source |
| 15:13.07 | Defiant- | not? |
| 15:13.16 | PaulFertser | Defiant-: read the link |
| 15:13.19 | chris_debian | G1 is definately not "open enough" |
| 15:13.49 | Defiant- | PaulFertser: Do the kernel/driver belong to android` |
| 15:14.17 | PaulFertser | chris_debian: FR still requires quite some dedication to be used as a daily phone. Hardware is clumsy, you have to apply one easy fix to get rid of GSM buzz, there're other problems etc. |
| 15:14.39 | PaulFertser | Defiant-: for A to run several special kernel drivers must be present |
| 15:14.41 | chris_debian | You can't even ls all of the directories, due to permissions. I don't think uname works, either, just to indicate how it is locked down! |
| 15:15.06 | PaulFertser | chris_debian: A doesn't provide posix userspace, no wonder. |
| 15:15.58 | chris_debian | Paul, I'm aware that it's still a bit rough around the edges, with call quality being an issue last time I looked. This is why i went to G1. Did I read that people use qtopia or something, that is a little more mature, or am I mislead? |
| 15:16.05 | chris_debian | Paul....Ahhh! |
| 15:16.12 | PaulFertser | chris_debian: Qtopia sucks |
| 15:16.17 | chris_debian | :-) |
| 15:16.28 | chris_debian | Is that where KDE came from originally? |
| 15:16.32 | PaulFertser | chris_debian: and did that all the time. End-user non-flexible forked stuff. |
| 15:16.52 | lindi- | PaulFertser: it's easy only for those who are confident with modding hardware :) |
| 15:16.53 | PaulFertser | KDE uses Qt library, Qtopia derivates from Qt library. |
| 15:16.58 | PaulFertser | lindi-: yes |
| 15:17.29 | leinir | KDE uses Qt, and originally came from a guy in Germany, who in short wanted to make a Linux desktop that his girlfriend would want to use :) |
| 15:17.43 | chris_debian | So could I use the OM as an everyday 'phone, or should I put up with the G1 for another 18 months until the end of my contract? |
| 15:17.47 | leinir | (note the difference between being able to use and wanting to use there ;) ) |
| 15:20.09 | chris_debian | Looks like the UK supplier has run out of OM's for now, anyway. |
| 15:21.22 | lindi- | PaulFertser: have you heard anything about om making the buzz fix official? |
| 15:23.10 | madxray | lindi-: i dumped two successful pings (to my laptop and some wired PC in the LAN) and some echo requests to my AP/router. Arp request was answered correctly |
| 15:23.15 | PaulFertser | lindi-: in the following revisions it will come pre-installed. Nothing about rework. |
| 15:23.49 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 15:24.14 | PaulFertser | chris_debian: have you already installed debian on your G1? |
| 15:24.48 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: do you know anything about the rework status? |
| 15:24.56 | chris_debian | Paul: No, to be honest, other than a proof of concept, I couldn't see the point. |
| 15:25.32 | PaulFertser | chris_debian: some can use FR as a phone, some can't. Depends on how desperate you need to have a really reliable cell phone functionality. But situation is improving rapidly. |
| 15:25.51 | PaulFertser | chris_debian: to be able to run any program packaged for Debian, isn't it a good enough reason? ;) |
| 15:26.05 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: nope, sorry |
| 15:26.34 | Dave | Hi Joerg :) |
| 15:26.41 | DocScrutinizer | moin Dave |
| 15:26.44 | Dave | :) |
| 15:27.35 | chris_debian | Paul: That is a good reason, but it doesn't make an open-source 'phone. I have several PC's I can run Debian on. |
| 15:28.03 | chris_debian | Paul: When you say the situation is improving rapidly, do you know what is being done? |
| 15:28.07 | davi | I am interested in _Free Software_ phones not just Open Source ones |
| 15:28.11 | thomasg | chris_debian: you said the G1 wouldn't be open enough: what does that mean exactly? are there still binary, non-opensource, drivers needed for the hardware? doesn't the phone-stuff (modem) work without additional binary stuff? |
| 15:29.00 | madxray | DocScrutinizer: is there some central page (i do not me the bug list) on the status of this important topic? I don't like to search the huge lists every time to stay updated ;-) |
| 15:29.12 | chris_debian | thomasg: I don't have root and many of the apps in the "Market" are beta's that will be charged for. I just prefer OM's ethos. |
| 15:29.23 | *** join/#openmoko chouchen (n=chatzill@125.115.173.92) |
| 15:29.50 | lindi- | thomasg: that url listed some non-free parts of android yes |
| 15:29.55 | thomasg | chris_debian: ok, I can see that with the regular g1 that only accepts signed kernels and no per-default root-access. I was thinking about the hardware in general |
| 15:29.56 | DocScrutinizer | madxray: most easy and up-to-date info you'll get here by simply asking me |
| 15:30.22 | Dave | So, what exactly are we scrutinizing this morning? :) |
| 15:30.22 | chris_debian | thomas: not sure about the hardware. |
| 15:30.25 | thomasg | lindi-: ah, haven't seen the link, that's useful, thanks |
| 15:30.33 | PaulFertser | chris_debian: for G1 probably nothing is improving, it won't be an open-source phone ever. But kernel, FSO, hardware, distributions, telephony applications etc are improving for OM, probably will have a semi-usable phone by the middle of the year. |
| 15:30.35 | DocScrutinizer | Dave: bip |
| 15:30.37 | chris_debian | Checking the link...... |
| 15:31.00 | DocScrutinizer | Dave: and alsa.state vs a new concept via amixer |
| 15:31.15 | *** join/#openmoko booxter (n=booxter@night02.sml.by) |
| 15:31.27 | PaulFertser | thomasg: A is proprietary, prooflink: http://www.telesphoreo.org/pipermail/g1-hackers/2009-January/000495.html |
| 15:31.28 | *** join/#openmoko Sharwin_F (n=Sharwin_@64.pool85-50-74.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 15:31.54 | madxray | DocScrutinizer: ok, you said that ;-) I thought about the central thing to aviod dozens of posts to the lists and to keep your head free to develop more "how to solder if you do not fear to brock/meld your FR" guides |
| 15:32.04 | thomasg | I find it highly disappointing, that almost no owner of the g1 (especially the developer edition) knew/knows about the closed parts |
| 15:32.22 | thomasg | they all all the time argue with their kernel sources available at android.com, but nobody tells about the closed stuff... |
| 15:32.29 | PaulFertser | thomasg: developer edition is no different to consumer edition |
| 15:32.37 | madxray | thomasg: think about meraki |
| 15:32.40 | thomasg | (expect the bootloader) |
| 15:32.44 | thomasg | *except |
| 15:32.58 | madxray | thomasg: same story...same background |
| 15:33.07 | PaulFertser | thomasg: that can be easily changed |
| 15:33.38 | PaulFertser | thomasg: but google attitude sucks and is plain offensive, i agree. |
| 15:33.40 | DocScrutinizer | madxray: well originally I intended to regularly report via [HW]-ml. There's so small progress though I didn't post any update for a long time now |
| 15:33.48 | thomasg | PaulFertser: ok, but my point was, that people who buy this edition and are android-opensource-advocates should know about the closed stuff. |
| 15:34.06 | tilman | i've rebooted fso m5 twice and zhone still cannot connect to dbus. what's wrong? :p |
| 15:34.15 | PaulFertser | thomasg: i didn't seen an android-opensource-advocate for a while |
| 15:34.55 | PaulFertser | My grammar sucks again :-/ |
| 15:34.56 | madxray | DocScruntinizer: ok so i will hook on another list |
| 15:35.02 | *** join/#openmoko von_fritz (n=fritz@host116-191-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:35.06 | thomasg | I was interested in the hardware, so I asked many owners about how open it really is and if I could build my own kernel on a non-android distro. all told me, that everything was open and available in their git repo. |
| 15:35.29 | *** join/#openmoko methril|laptop (n=methril@169.73.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 15:35.35 | PaulFertser | thomasg: So, you can build your kernel on any distro with cross-compiler, can't you? |
| 15:36.00 | thomasg | of course, but I couldn't use the phone-hardware, because it is only accessible with closed source software |
| 15:36.09 | PaulFertser | thomasg: btw, do they give any schematics and pcb component placement files? If not, that clearly shows how "open" they are. |
| 15:36.34 | *** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=chatzill@d51A515D7.access.telenet.be) |
| 15:36.46 | thomasg | ok, I can understand this, because the hardware is HTCs part, and I don't expect them to know or care about "openness" at all |
| 15:36.50 | PaulFertser | thomasg: what part of the hardware are you interested? I think gsm modem is accessible through regular ttys, isn't it? |
| 15:37.09 | thomasg | what I can't understand is, that google delivers the software and calls it "completely open source" while it isn't. |
| 15:37.21 | thomasg | PaulFertser: according to that mail it isn't. |
| 15:37.29 | PaulFertser | PR/Marketing bullshit, as usual |
| 15:37.36 | thomasg | currently, proprietary userspace bits include: |
| 15:37.36 | thomasg | - htc RIL (radio interface) library and data files |
| 15:38.28 | PaulFertser | thomasg: but you can write your own implementation to work with "AT/QMI ontrol channels provided via GPL kernel drivers" |
| 15:38.48 | Dave | Hi Paul :) |
| 15:39.08 | thomasg | ok, first of all, my C skill suck pretty much, so I couldn't if I wanted :) |
| 15:39.18 | PaulFertser | Dave: How do you do :) |
| 15:39.36 | *** join/#openmoko bipak_ (n=bip@p57B85EA8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:39.39 | thomasg | but nevertheless, this library seems to be the interface between the modem and the AT layer, so I don't think this can be done without reverse engineering |
| 15:39.44 | PaulFertser | thomasg: so, google is spreading BS, but that's no news. |
| 15:40.02 | PaulFertser | thomasg: i bet the modem mostly supports standard GSM at commands. |
| 15:40.27 | Dave | gsm bs? |
| 15:40.38 | PaulFertser | Dave: marketing BS :) |
| 15:40.40 | thomasg | as I understand this it does, but only over the proprietary RIL interface |
| 15:40.48 | Dave | ah! |
| 15:40.48 | *** join/#openmoko Fale (n=Fale@89-96-108-175.ip12.fastwebnet.it) |
| 15:40.50 | Dave | damn :P |
| 15:40.54 | Dave | Hate that shit, Paul :) |
| 15:41.16 | Wonka | who doesnt? |
| 15:41.20 | PaulFertser | thomasg: nope, all other htc phones work with the modem in a regular "at command over serial interface" way. |
| 15:41.35 | PaulFertser | I don't. Hating is stupid. Hurts only myself if i try. |
| 15:42.00 | Dave | WONKA |
| 15:42.11 | Wonka | wrong. |
| 15:42.25 | Wonka | i do hate marketing bs |
| 15:42.43 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@93-136-48-95.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 15:42.45 | Wonka | :p |
| 15:43.31 | Dave | :D |
| 15:43.31 | shellevil | If hating hurts only yourself, you're holding the ax wrong. |
| 15:43.34 | Dave | Yes... |
| 15:43.35 | thomasg | ok, let's see the positive side: at least google makes sure, that I'll buy openmoko phones in future, no matter how much PITA they can be in some situations :) |
| 15:43.39 | Dave | Let the hate flow THROUGH you... >:) |
| 15:44.41 | thomasg | for now I focus all my hate on OpemEmbedded, because it doesn't want me to build anything :( |
| 15:45.02 | PaulFertser | thomasg: let's ask chris_debian to try to root his g1 and kill the phone application and connect to the serial via stty or picoterm or minicom or whatever. |
| 15:45.17 | gromgull | dumb question - when typing with the predictive illume keyboard, i get a bunch of suggestions, how do I scroll in the list? |
| 15:45.20 | thomasg | chris_debian: you heard the man :) |
| 15:45.36 | chris_debian | Just doing it......... |
| 15:45.43 | Dave | oh snap |
| 15:45.49 | Dave | So what exactly are we doing here, Paul? |
| 15:45.59 | Dave | Other than breaking and entering :P |
| 15:46.26 | DocScrutinizer | thomasg: you already updated FW?? :-) |
| 15:46.36 | PaulFertser | Dave: is it a phylosophical question or you're trying to understand what we are talking about? |
| 15:46.44 | Dave | the latter |
| 15:46.46 | Dave | :P |
| 15:46.58 | Dave | I'd say I missed the first 3/4 of the conversation. |
| 15:47.02 | thomasg | DocScrutinizer: no, I was about to - as soon I fixed the audio stuff I'm struggling with :) |
| 15:47.20 | thomasg | now I have a kernelpatch for that in OE, but it doesn't build... |
| 15:47.22 | *** join/#openmoko d-b (n=alias@unaffiliated/d-b) |
| 15:47.33 | PloenK | Hi |
| 15:47.52 | thomasg | however, I'm glad to hear, that the part of the modem firmware that OM actually _can_ fix is getting fixed |
| 15:47.55 | DocScrutinizer | I seem to remember you asked me about updating moko5 on a gta01 long time ago? |
| 15:47.58 | PloenK | How long will it take for tangogps to display the position? |
| 15:47.59 | PaulFertser | Dave: HTC Dream aka G1 comes preinstalled with android which has some proprietary parts. But google says every now and then that A is open-source. That's marketing BS. But i guess one can access the gsm modem via regular serial port and use AT commands as usual. |
| 15:48.16 | thomasg | DocScrutinizer: yeah, I think that might have been me |
| 15:48.36 | Dave | So this is what you currently endeavor to find out? :) |
| 15:48.39 | chris_debian | Guys, I've got a large screwdriver out and am just applying it to my G1. Root must be inside somewhere.... |
| 15:48.47 | thomasg | :) |
| 15:48.50 | Dave | hah! |
| 15:48.56 | Dave | crack that thing open! |
| 15:48.59 | thomasg | chris_debian: if you can't find your hammer, just ask |
| 15:49.03 | Dave | :D |
| 15:49.03 | PaulFertser | chris_debian: need a link to rooting procedure? |
| 15:49.22 | thomasg | chris_debian: let's hope you have a US edition, not EU |
| 15:49.30 | thomasg | afaik EU is not yet root-able |
| 15:49.31 | *** join/#openmoko sakkara (n=sakkara@d86-33-116-43.cust.tele2.at) |
| 15:49.32 | chris_debian | Got the link, thanks. I have a plastic faced mallet that should minimize the dameage. |
| 15:49.39 | chris_debian | UK edition. |
| 15:49.54 | chris_debian | *damage |
| 15:49.54 | PaulFertser | chris_debian: why are you openning the case? |
| 15:50.04 | chris_debian | I'm not, just being silly. |
| 15:50.06 | tilman | should i be able to start frameworkd manually on fso m5? i'm getting these errors: http://643268d6232ad7f7.paste.se/ |
| 15:50.22 | chris_debian | The UK 'phone can be rooted, buy downgrading the patching. |
| 15:50.29 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@g226210012.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:50.30 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: Is that "open" the sort of that applies to the OS, but not to the bootloader which will refuse to load a nonsigned OS? :-> |
| 15:51.10 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: no, OS is not fully open as well. Look here for very important parts that are missing: http://www.telesphoreo.org/pipermail/g1-hackers/2009-January/000495.html |
| 15:51.28 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: so, what about flashing from moko5? |
| 15:51.47 | DocScrutinizer | duh, nothing special? |
| 15:52.05 | DocScrutinizer | just now its feasible |
| 15:52.19 | PaulFertser | tilman: looks like you have a broken installation/corrupted files. |
| 15:52.57 | tilman | yay ;x |
| 15:53.02 | thomasg | chris_debian: ok, think the UK version might be rootable, it comes with the old firmware that allows it the same way as the US edition does. central/eastern europe editions however don't allow that :( |
| 15:53.16 | Wonka | PloenK: depends. with no almanach data, it can take up to 12 minutes. you need strong enough signal reception of course. |
| 15:53.17 | chris_debian | Ahhh, ok. |
| 15:53.42 | PloenK | thx Wonka, so I'll wait |
| 15:54.06 | PaulFertser | thomasg: why do you think that? Have you read http://www.webnetta.com/2009/01/02/t-mobile-g1-rc30-to-jfv13/ ? |
| 15:54.30 | *** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net) |
| 15:54.53 | thomasg | no, I haven't (thanks), I only know what this trusty person says :) http://pavelmachek.livejournal.com/ |
| 15:55.01 | PaulFertser | PloenK: for me GPS fix takes about 1-2 minutes with almanac. |
| 15:55.22 | *** join/#openmoko Montgoss (n=montgoss@173-20-187-41.client.mchsi.com) |
| 15:55.37 | tilman | does anyone have the md5sum of fso-image-om-gta02.jffs2 (for milestone 5)? |
| 15:55.41 | Montgoss | Anyone know how to fix: "ALSA lib seq_hw.c:457:(snd_seq_hw_open) open /dev/snd/seq failed: No such file or directory" |
| 15:56.31 | balrog-kun | happy valentines |
| 15:56.42 | DocScrutinizer | Wonka: and if you have a few seconds of dropout at the end of that 12min interval, you may need to wait for another one to get complete data from sat |
| 15:57.17 | DocScrutinizer | Wonka: so "good signal needed" can't be emphasized storng enough |
| 15:57.22 | Wonka | ack |
| 15:57.33 | Wonka | but i have agps-full....py |
| 15:57.36 | Wonka | and gprs |
| 15:57.46 | Wonka | so i usually don't need more than 30s |
| 15:57.50 | DocScrutinizer | yeah lovely |
| 15:58.23 | thomasg | is anyone here able to build pkgconfig-native in OE? |
| 15:58.26 | Wonka | also i got a 10pF piece of fly doings on the right pins :) |
| 15:58.39 | DocScrutinizer | :-))) |
| 15:58.54 | DocScrutinizer | did the fix yourself? |
| 15:59.21 | PaulFertser | thomasg: you're right, "Huh... so it seems flashing rc29 to g1 bought in Czech Republic is not easily possible: bootloader checks region (CID) and will not allow flashing..." |
| 15:59.25 | Wonka | had a friend do the soldering |
| 15:59.57 | DocScrutinizer | he should be able to do bigC as well |
| 16:00.03 | Wonka | and when the weather is warmer, i'll take my FR and my magnetic compass and hunt down some plastic cans |
| 16:00.06 | madxray | tilman: e2814619fc767a9d9ab19528a8fb77b0 fso-image-om-gta02.jffs2 |
| 16:00.07 | madxray | chbe@farnsworth |
| 16:00.08 | thomasg | PaulFertser: yeah, afaik the same goes for some other countries in this region (basically all where the phone came on the market in 2009) |
| 16:00.25 | tilman | madxray: thanks |
| 16:00.33 | tilman | i'll try flashing that again :( |
| 16:00.43 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=lkjsdfkj@mauve.plus.com) |
| 16:00.49 | gromgull | hmm - enlightenment takes 40% pretty much always... |
| 16:00.51 | madxray | tilman: hope it is number 5...it's the last from start of feb |
| 16:01.37 | tilman | madxray: yes, that should be ms5 |
| 16:01.38 | Dave | Wonka :) |
| 16:01.48 | gromgull | 40% cpu that is |
| 16:01.57 | Dave | eww |
| 16:02.45 | DocScrutinizer | :-< |
| 16:03.48 | *** join/#openmoko Piet (i=pietor@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xC5C71DCE) |
| 16:04.32 | thomasg | gromgull: iirc that's a specific problem with newer shr/fso releases, not a general problem |
| 16:05.03 | gromgull | thomasg: this is FSO-m5 |
| 16:05.16 | Montgoss | Anyone successfully connect a MIDI device to their Neo? |
| 16:05.33 | gromgull | is there also a fix? :) |
| 16:06.22 | thomasg | Montgoss == steven? :) |
| 16:07.06 | Montgoss | thomasg: maybe... :-$ |
| 16:07.53 | thomasg | gromgull: sry, haven't had a closer look, enough trouble at other points at moment. don't even know if there's already a solution, afaik unloading and reloading all E modules helps |
| 16:08.20 | thomasg | Montgoss: well, if so, we've been mailing 2 days ago (about euphony) |
| 16:08.38 | lindi- | Montgoss: if its just usb it works just like on your PC |
| 16:08.46 | Montgoss | thomasg: oh yah |
| 16:09.01 | Montgoss | lindi-: it doesn't create a /dev/midi device like it does on my PC |
| 16:09.21 | lindi- | Montgoss: put your kernel config online somewhere |
| 16:09.34 | thomasg | ok, so I can inform you, that I've not only spotted the reason for the delay, but also for a big performance problem (which are directly related). I think it's a problem with the sounddriver, and I hope I can fix it |
| 16:09.52 | Montgoss | lindi-: errr.... not sure what you mean by "kernel config" |
| 16:10.08 | Montgoss | thomasg: that's good news |
| 16:10.28 | lindi- | Montgoss: linux kernel configuration file ".config" defines what features are enabled |
| 16:10.28 | Montgoss | thomasg: soundriver as in alsa? |
| 16:10.47 | lindi- | Montgoss: maybe your kernel does not have usb midi device support |
| 16:11.05 | thomasg | Montgoss: yes |
| 16:11.16 | thomasg | I also tried OSS, but that didn't help much |
| 16:11.18 | Montgoss | lindi-: ok. and where is that .config file? |
| 16:11.28 | lindi- | Montgoss: depends on the distro |
| 16:11.32 | Montgoss | SHR |
| 16:11.40 | thomasg | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:11.41 | lindi- | no idea |
| 16:12.10 | thomasg | however, many OM based distros don't have that feature enabled, so you have to check the buildsystem or kernel git, where the default configurations rest |
| 16:12.46 | Montgoss | it was /proc/config.gz |
| 16:13.15 | Montgoss | line 1389 says "# CONFIG_USB_MIDI_GADGET is not set" |
| 16:13.22 | madxray | wasn't there a post on one of the lists about FR corrupting an Linksys WLAN repeater? my Zyxel has also very strange issues after my previously reported tries to connect my FR. My Laptop is connected but iwlisting is some kind of unknown strangeness http://3dc9ed5dfa867558.paste.se |
| 16:13.24 | lindi- | Montgoss: you don't want a midi gadget |
| 16:13.25 | Montgoss | i'm guessing that's a bad sign, yah? :-( |
| 16:13.31 | lindi- | Montgoss: that is no sign |
| 16:13.52 | Montgoss | lindi-: that's the only occurrence of MIDI in the file |
| 16:14.31 | Montgoss | lindi-: what should I be looking for? |
| 16:15.18 | lindi- | Montgoss: find -name Kconfig|xargs grep MIDI in source code |
| 16:16.22 | lindi- | Montgoss: i think you need SND_USB_AUDIO |
| 16:16.32 | lindi- | Montgoss: documented as 'Say Y here to include support for USB audio and USB MIDI devices.' |
| 16:17.12 | PaulFertser | wonders why G1 can't be accessed with JTAG. |
| 16:17.25 | SpeedEvil | Thermite. |
| 16:17.44 | Montgoss | lindi-: that find returned no results... |
| 16:18.02 | gromgull | thomasg: removing the dropshadow module and reducing the framerate seems to bring it down to about 10% - still this is a lot for not doing anything |
| 16:22.39 | lindi- | Montgoss: did you run it in linux source code? |
| 16:23.30 | Montgoss | i ran it on the SHR source tree |
| 16:24.23 | Dave | Paul, tentacles1 |
| 16:24.24 | Dave | ! |
| 16:25.17 | *** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i59F7E1E4.versanet.de) |
| 16:26.01 | PaulFertser | Dave: since when that is a problem for hackers? ;) |
| 16:26.05 | niv | mh... well, anyone gprs on batterie working? *G* |
| 16:26.22 | niv | (and debian on an 8 GB mmc?) *duck* |
| 16:26.47 | *** join/#openmoko leinir (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 16:27.26 | *** join/#openmoko hdfhefgaert43t (i=bite@gateway/tor/x-02fd159c32587260) |
| 16:27.41 | niv | at least that one is reproducable... i am on battery... start gprs with the grps-on.sh script from the wiki, remove the default route to usb0 and do something with the network and my freerunner freezes |
| 16:27.54 | tilman | fso is working nicely after i flashed it again ._o |
| 16:28.11 | Dave | :D |
| 16:29.01 | PaulFertser | niv: i don't remove the default route manually |
| 16:29.09 | PaulFertser | niv: using debian |
| 16:29.22 | niv | PaulFertser: what do you do to use gprs then? |
| 16:30.04 | *** join/#openmoko jyro (n=jayesh@116.72.99.224) |
| 16:30.17 | PaulFertser | niv: nothing except mdbus -s $BUSNAME $OBJECTPATH $METHODNAME $APN "$USERNAME" "$PASSWORD" |
| 16:30.21 | Montgoss | lindi-: was that not correct? |
| 16:30.36 | *** join/#openmoko madxray (n=madxray@dslb-088-073-178-208.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:30.49 | lindi- | Montgoss: i don't know what "SHR source tree" exactly means sorry |
| 16:31.00 | lindi- | Montgoss: where is it? |
| 16:31.12 | niv | PaulFertser: what do you insert for $BUSNAME, $OBJECTPATH and $METHODNAME? :) |
| 16:31.27 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g227028095.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:31.43 | Montgoss | lindi-: it's all the source that goes into the SHR distro images |
| 16:31.48 | PaulFertser | niv: org.freesmartphone.ogsmd /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device org.freesmartphone.GSM.PDP.ActivateContext of course |
| 16:31.54 | Montgoss | lindi-: i was pretty sure it included the kernel |
| 16:32.01 | lindi- | Montgoss: how many Kconfig files? |
| 16:32.10 | *** join/#openmoko freelock_ (n=john@logan.freelock.com) |
| 16:32.18 | Montgoss | lindi-: at least 30 |
| 16:32.37 | niv | PaulFertser: i will try that on battery *G* |
| 16:32.46 | niv | PaulFertser: thx for the hint |
| 16:33.00 | lindi- | Montgoss: i find 489 |
| 16:33.01 | Montgoss | lindi-: actually, looks more like 50 |
| 16:33.22 | PaulFertser | niv: isn't it the same as on wiki? |
| 16:33.34 | lindi- | Montgoss: here's a list: $ find -name Kconfig| nc paste.dyndns.org 1234 |
| 16:33.35 | lindi- | http://paste.nerv.fi/33160707.txt |
| 16:34.57 | Montgoss | lindi-: mine are all under "om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/kernel/arch/arm/" |
| 16:35.06 | DocScrutinizer | wow paste.dyndns.org 1234 |
| 16:35.29 | lindi- | Montgoss: you must have somewhat stripped source code then |
| 16:36.28 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: how do you tell the http link then? |
| 16:36.39 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: netcat prints it to stdout |
| 16:36.44 | Montgoss | lindi-: i think the modules are separate. would that make the difference? |
| 16:36.47 | DocScrutinizer | keeeewl |
| 16:37.05 | lindi- | Montgoss: i don't understand SHR build architecture, sorry. maybe they are built separately |
| 16:37.09 | DocScrutinizer | creates a shortcut ;) |
| 16:37.32 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: debian has 'pastebinit' package already |
| 16:38.54 | DocScrutinizer | no debian here :/ |
| 16:42.09 | *** join/#openmoko janrikard (n=janrikar@81-226-6-45-o1044.telia.com) |
| 16:43.29 | DocScrutinizer | wtf did they do to my beloved shell??? |
| 16:43.32 | DocScrutinizer | jr@halley:~/Documents/OpenMoko/images> nc |
| 16:43.33 | DocScrutinizer | Das Programm 'nc' kann im folgenden Paket gefunden werden: |
| 16:43.35 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:43.36 | DocScrutinizer | Zum installieren versuchen Sie: sudo zypper install netcat-openbsd |
| 16:43.47 | DocScrutinizer | OMG |
| 16:44.06 | DocScrutinizer | want my "cmd not found" back! |
| 16:44.51 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: that is a debian extension |
| 16:45.09 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@94.36.93.49) |
| 16:45.27 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: man bash says "The name of a shell function to be called if a command cannot be found. The return value of this function should be 0, if the command is available after execution of the function, otherwise 127 (EX_NOTFOUND). Enabled only in interactive, non POSIX mode shells. This is a Debian extension." |
| 16:45.38 | DocScrutinizer | what, the nasty zypper response? |
| 16:45.59 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: what does your man bash say about it? |
| 16:45.59 | DocScrutinizer | eeeek |
| 16:46.10 | DocScrutinizer | prolly same |
| 16:46.21 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: so you have a tiny bit of debian there too :) |
| 16:46.22 | *** join/#openmoko Obri (i=daniel@sonne.alt-f4.ch) |
| 16:46.49 | DocScrutinizer | I'm perfectly hapy with "command not found" and netcat |
| 16:47.13 | DocScrutinizer | warmduscher |
| 16:47.25 | DocScrutinizer | debian, pfff |
| 16:47.39 | niv | mh... PaulFertser well, again my freerunner freezes ... i will give it a try this evening.. |
| 16:47.45 | lindi- | niv: total crash? |
| 16:47.47 | DocScrutinizer | time to change distri it seems |
| 16:47.58 | *** join/#openmoko crib (n=chris@port-92-193-83-220.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 16:48.02 | niv | lindi-: total crash, yes. |
| 16:48.13 | lindi- | niv: can you reproduce it easily? |
| 16:48.20 | DocScrutinizer | btw this pastebin really works like a charm |
| 16:49.08 | niv | lindi-: battery, gsm on, gprs on (with PaulFertsers command) |
| 16:49.29 | niv | i gotta go... see you this evening.. |
| 16:49.32 | lindi- | niv: ok |
| 16:49.54 | gromgull | does fso/shr provide a way to turn off wifi? |
| 16:50.09 | gromgull | even using some dbus commandline thing? |
| 16:50.15 | PaulFertser | gromgull: sure |
| 16:50.25 | Sharwin_F | gromgull, shr-settings? |
| 16:50.40 | gromgull | Sharwin_F: well ok - FSO :) |
| 16:51.57 | Sharwin_F | gromgull, haha ask someone to write some fso-settings app :P |
| 16:52.17 | Sharwin_F | it should be possible through dbus cmd line, but don't know which |
| 16:52.48 | PaulFertser | gromgull: look how you can easily find it: mdbus -s |
| 16:53.11 | *** join/#openmoko XVirus (n=Satan@41.196.56.153) |
| 16:53.12 | PaulFertser | gromgull: then mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.odeviced |
| 16:53.32 | PaulFertser | gromgull: then mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.odeviced /org/freesmartphone/Device/PowerControl/WiFi |
| 16:53.55 | PaulFertser | gromgull: finally mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.odeviced /org/freesmartphone/Device/PowerControl/WiFi org.freesmartphone.Device.PowerControl.SetPower 0 |
| 16:54.08 | gromgull | Excellent - thanks! |
| 16:57.20 | *** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer (n=jr@p5493DA24.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:59.02 | gromgull | haha - it worked, i forgot I was connected by ssh over the wifi i just turned off though |
| 17:03.12 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
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| 17:25.23 | SM2k | Just packaged Enlightenment for Foresight so that I could stage etk development from my desktop |
| 17:33.48 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host85-220-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:34.57 | mwester | Wake up!!!!!! |
| 17:34.59 | mwester | :P |
| 17:35.21 | mwester | goes to see what damage has been done in the Om community while he slept... |
| 17:38.25 | *** join/#openmoko Hire (n=hire@host83-14-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:40.18 | *** join/#openmoko sudharsh (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 17:40.54 | Dave | :D |
| 17:41.23 | mwester | It's Dave! |
| 17:41.27 | Dave | Huzzah! |
| 17:41.32 | mwester | The man of a thousand mokos |
| 17:41.43 | Dave | Haha, yes! |
| 17:48.05 | *** join/#openmoko Hurz (n=andy@p57984B43.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:48.27 | TeLLuS | Thinking about installing SHR but my Om2009.12 is running fine and a read that SHR need a reboot every day, is that true? |
| 17:48.33 | *** join/#openmoko xcasex (n=rrg@71-197.lerstenen.t3.se) |
| 17:49.24 | Zorkman | TeLLuS: enlightenment uses a lot of cpu, but if you suspend you don't need to reboot every day |
| 17:49.29 | Zorkman | and put shr on your sd card |
| 17:49.36 | Zorkman | that way you can keep your 2008.x |
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| 18:02.52 | Piet | is someone running openmoko off a crypto file system? if so, how does it perform? |
| 18:03.21 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@91-114-179-42.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 18:04.07 | Piet | also, experiences with selinux or the like would be interesting to me |
| 18:08.24 | mwester | notes we can hardly keep the devices working as is, and shudders at the thought of selinux on openmoko. Gaaaah! |
| 18:08.49 | *** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host221-133-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:16.31 | mwester | Piet: I can't find the email right now; you'll have to search the mailing list archives I guess. But someone did embark upon a project to get selinux working on the Om devices, quite some time ago. |
| 18:17.46 | *** join/#openmoko Digital_Pioneer (n=digitalp@h65.198.255.206.cable.srcy.cablelynx.com) |
| 18:20.41 | DocScrutinizer | laughs |
| 18:20.57 | *** part/#openmoko Montgoss (n=montgoss@173-20-187-41.client.mchsi.com) |
| 18:21.50 | DocScrutinizer | Piet: have you already changed permissions and created a standard user, so finally not all the apps are running at root level rights? |
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| 18:22.05 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@h193n4c1o1036.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 18:22.45 | DocScrutinizer | wonders when for god's sake some community member will check in a patch to fix this braindamaged annoyance |
| 18:23.46 | SpeedEvil | has never mated with a badger - even then. |
| 18:23.49 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 18:24.15 | mwester | wonders what channels SpeedEvil hangs about on, and then decides he does NOT wish to know. |
| 18:24.39 | SpeedEvil | Honestly, that was a perfectly natural, and reasonable comment on the other channel, in a completely non-perverted way. |
| 18:24.51 | Dave | :o |
| 18:25.09 | Dave | badger badger badger! |
| 18:25.13 | DocScrutinizer | ¿? |
| 18:26.26 | SpeedEvil | A comment based on 'And an August police search near Linz, Germany, was called off after the "bloodcurdling" screams reported as a woman in distress were actually the mating cries of a badger. [Daily Telegraph (London), 8-5-08] ' |
| 18:26.40 | *** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD46CA9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:26.49 | kd8ikt | ... |
| 18:27.06 | Dave | :O |
| 18:27.22 | *** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@ip72-219-131-110.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 18:27.56 | kd8ikt | did you give tha badger what it wanted? |
| 18:28.04 | kd8ikt | &*^% |
| 18:28.14 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 18:29.12 | SpeedEvil | http://www.newsoftheweird.com/archive/nw081012.html fun. |
| 18:29.26 | Dave | :o |
| 18:29.46 | kd8ikt | gamewarden caught malesting badger "screams consentual" |
| 18:30.34 | Dave | o_O |
| 18:31.20 | kd8ikt | thanx to opencyclemap i found out theres a bike path near me that goes on for 76miles 122km |
| 18:32.53 | kd8ikt | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Miami_Scenic_Trail |
| 18:33.17 | kd8ikt | i mean i've fished along it but i didnt know it went that far |
| 18:34.26 | PaulFertser | kd8ikt: can you imagine that in Moscow i know only of one bike lane and that's a professional racing track built for olympic 80 and most of that is occupied by stupid people with kids and dogs. Anyway it's too hard for long-time cycling. |
| 18:35.57 | kd8ikt | in soviet russia bike ride you |
| 18:36.04 | Zorkman | :) |
| 18:36.05 | Piet | DocScrutinizer: no, i haven't tried anything, am just wondering whether it's actually worth looking into |
| 18:36.08 | Zorkman | lol, those never get old :) |
| 18:36.39 | kd8ikt | only problem i dont have a bike |
| 18:36.50 | kd8ikt | guess i could hoof it the entire way |
| 18:37.05 | kd8ikt | closer than the appalacian trail |
| 18:37.40 | DocScrutinizer | Piet: definitely not as long as most basic user permissions management is FUBAR |
| 18:39.18 | Piet | i wasn't aware of the 'everything running as root' fiasco |
| 18:39.31 | SpeedEvil | It's hardly a fiasco |
| 18:39.50 | SpeedEvil | It'd be a fiasco if it was a polished complete phone stack, running as root. |
| 18:39.58 | SpeedEvil | There are much worse things than that. |
| 18:41.02 | kd8ikt | i wonder howmanny users around here are pwned |
| 18:41.22 | *** join/#openmoko |mr (n=lymeca@student167-222.hampshire.edu) |
| 18:42.02 | SpeedEvil | Though wifi + no password ssh is a bit silly |
| 18:42.51 | kd8ikt | i remove the localhost only garbage in /etc/default/dropbrea |
| 18:42.57 | kd8ikt | :D |
| 18:43.25 | kd8ikt | but i do change passwd and add ssh keys |
| 18:47.34 | kd8ikt | i see a feb13 uimage on fsounstable |
| 18:47.51 | kd8ikt | guess the rootfs failed? |
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| 19:01.16 | bergelin | i just installed debian on my freerunner, the installation went fine and booting as well. however, i'm not able to get a connection to it via usb. it works perfectly fine with 2008.12. when booting debian, an error is printing about it not being to bring up the usb0 interface. any ideas? |
| 19:04.10 | lindi- | bergelin: you probably did not load the ethernet gadget kernel module |
| 19:04.40 | lindi- | bergelin: see $ netcat paste.dyndns.org 1234 < /home/scratch/neo/2009-02-14/etc/modules |
| 19:04.43 | lindi- | http://paste.nerv.fi/11854175.txt |
| 19:04.47 | lindi- | bergelin: and consider /join #openmoko-debian |
| 19:06.38 | henk | bergelin: check dmesg it really is 'usb0'. i noticed that hackable1 is identified as 'eth0' over here... |
| 19:07.01 | lindi- | henk: eth0 is wifi usually? |
| 19:09.54 | bergelin | lindi-: thanks for your help. sorry for being a bit slow, should i add the content http://paste.nerv.fi/11854175.txt to my /etc/modules file? |
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| 19:11.14 | bergelin | henk: i haven't got any terminal on the freerunner, so i'm unable to run dmesg |
| 19:13.16 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@BAA1171.baa.pppool.de) |
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| 19:13.30 | bergelin | any terminal installed on debian that is, maybe it's possible to chroot into it from my om image and install one |
| 19:17.08 | kd8ikt | ctl+alt+x? |
| 19:17.30 | kd8ikt | unless x failed to start |
| 19:18.30 | lindi- | bergelin: only "g_ether" is what you absolutely need for "usb0" |
| 19:19.01 | bergelin | thanks lindi-, i'll go ahead and try it out |
| 19:19.38 | lindi- | bergelin: if you want sound to work you might want 'snd-soc-neo1973-gta02-wm8753' :) |
| 19:19.56 | henk | lindi-: he wasn't talking about the host? |
| 19:20.11 | lindi- | henk: host? |
| 19:20.41 | bergelin | damn, both were already there |
| 19:20.46 | henk | lindi-: the host not being able to bring up usb0. but i guess he was talking about the FR. |
| 19:21.05 | bergelin | yep, exactly |
| 19:21.13 | lindi- | henk: it won't bring it up if FR is not ethernet gadget |
| 19:21.28 | henk | i know |
| 19:21.30 | bergelin | the default /etc/modules contained g_ether and snd-soc-neo1973-gta02-wm8753 |
| 19:21.58 | lindi- | bergelin: good |
| 19:22.07 | lindi- | bergelin: then that is not your issue |
| 19:22.13 | lindi- | bergelin: which kernel do you run? |
| 19:22.19 | bergelin | on host? |
| 19:23.22 | bergelin | lindi-: [bergelin@defiant ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.12-170.2.5.fc10.i686 |
| 19:23.29 | bergelin | running fedora 10 |
| 19:23.51 | lindi- | bergelin: on fr |
| 19:24.31 | bergelin | lindi-, i dont know how to check that since i haven't got any terminal on the debian installation |
| 19:26.25 | *** join/#openmoko _CoreDump (n=mhentges@hentges.net) |
| 19:26.51 | lindi- | bergelin: well well. that is a problem :) |
| 19:28.41 | bergelin | lindi-: haha yeah :) |
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| 19:31.42 | doc|work | does shr wake up out of suspend quickly enough to be useful? |
| 19:31.52 | doc|work | when I let it suspend it takes 4-5 seconds to come out |
| 19:32.13 | doc|work | maybe it's just because there's no sim card in it so it's suspending more than it might otherwise |
| 19:32.31 | lindi- | bergelin: i am happily running icewm and can launch xterm and xvkbd keyboard from menu easily :) |
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| 19:35.05 | bergelin | lindi-: i'm running the default ui, i think that it's called zhone. but since i'm not able to ssh into the fr, i guess there's no way to install icewm? |
| 19:35.20 | lindi- | bergelin: zhone is a dialer and demo program |
| 19:35.38 | lindi- | bergelin: you can always boot something from nand and chroot to your debian system |
| 19:36.26 | bergelin | oh ok |
| 19:36.36 | henk | or close zhone... |
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| 19:37.01 | henk | and have matchbox i guess |
| 19:37.01 | bergelin | lindi-: yeah, i'll do that. i'm actually running the installation again, i managed to break something before so debian did not boot |
| 19:37.18 | bergelin | thanks for your help, i'll come back when i've chrooted |
| 19:37.28 | bergelin | henk, how do i close zhone? |
| 19:38.05 | lindi- | bergelin: imho the "default" is too "phone-only" for my taste :) i see my fr more like a PDA |
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| 19:38.09 | henk | hm, good question. i don't know how the default setup looks or works exactly... |
| 19:38.23 | henk | lindi-: ack, me too |
| 19:38.29 | lindi- | henk: same here, i don't reinstall so i don't know what "default" is this week :P |
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| 19:39.59 | bergelin | lindi-, agreed, i would prefer having icewm or xfce |
| 19:40.58 | henk | i do reinstall, but with my own dpkg-selections and config files for fvwm an such, so i have no idea either, but i guess it's matchbox-wm with openmoko-panel-plugin at the top and zhone in the autostart. |
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| 19:45.09 | lindi- | henk: no e17? |
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| 19:50.35 | henk | lindi-: i don't think the install script has already been updated since the packages got into debian... |
| 19:54.53 | Zorkman | anybody using navit for routing? |
| 19:55.03 | Zorkman | (or some other to me unknown app)? |
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| 20:33.31 | bergelin | lindi-, alright, i have chrooted into debian and encountered something strange. when trying to modprobe g_ether, i get this root@om-gta02:/# modprobe g_ether |
| 20:33.31 | bergelin | FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.24/modules.dep: No such file or directory |
| 20:34.03 | bergelin | root@om-gta02:/# ls /lib/modules/ |
| 20:34.03 | bergelin | 2.6.28-20090105.git69b2aa26 |
| 20:44.49 | thomasg | bergelin: obviously you're running a 2.6.24 kernel, but have only modules for 2.6.28 |
| 20:46.22 | lindi- | bergelin: uname -r? |
| 20:46.36 | lindi- | ignore previous lline |
| 20:46.55 | bergelin | lindi-, 2.6.24 |
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| 20:55.45 | bergelin | lindi-, that's strange.. vmlinuz-2.6.28-20090105.git69b2aa26 is the one that uImage.bin points to. 2.6.24 is not even installed. |
| 20:55.57 | lindi- | bergelin: well, you booted some other os from nand? |
| 20:56.12 | bergelin | lindi-, oh yeah, haha nvm |
| 20:56.48 | bergelin | so that's why modprobe didn't work, stupid me |
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| 21:32.57 | Zorkman | just a small question: |
| 21:33.29 | Zorkman | bluetooth ad2p uses less energy then a headphone ? |
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| 21:39.17 | niv | ok guys i am back.. |
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| 21:44.35 | niv | lindi-: still there and motivated to help me? :) |
| 21:45.37 | docscrutinizer2 | Zorkman: i honestly doubt |
| 21:47.29 | docscrutinizer2 | hp shouldn't take much energy at all, given you usually have sth like 88dB/mW transducers |
| 21:48.12 | Zorkman | do you guess it would be somewhat eaqual? or expect the ad2p to use more?N |
| 21:51.02 | docscrutinizer2 | theoretical maximum is with 1.6V ^2 / 16ohm = 160mW |
| 21:51.26 | docscrutinizer2 | never can get even near that in real life |
| 21:52.08 | docscrutinizer2 | duh, moment please |
| 21:53.12 | docscrutinizer2 | nah, correct |
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| 21:53.56 | docscrutinizer2 | with a 32ohm usual headset used, it half of that |
| 21:54.16 | Zorkman | hmmm too bad |
| 21:54.30 | docscrutinizer2 | duh??? |
| 21:54.30 | Zorkman | was hoping to use bluetooth to get good low frequency |
| 21:54.41 | Zorkman | if it uses two times as much energy... |
| 21:54.45 | docscrutinizer2 | yeah no problem |
| 21:55.30 | docscrutinizer2 | those power consumptions are negligence compared to rest of system |
| 21:55.49 | Zorkman | thanks for the info and you time doc! |
| 21:56.01 | docscrutinizer2 | np, welcome |
| 21:56.18 | Zorkman | when my bt receiver arrives i'll try to get ad2p running and clean up some wiki entries about it |
| 21:56.52 | docscrutinizer2 | great! muuuch appreciated |
| 21:57.29 | docscrutinizer2 | imagine: battery has nearly 4000mWh power |
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| 21:58.48 | docscrutinizer2 | BT seems to transmit at 10mW, and will eat maybe 5 times that from VDD |
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| 21:59.19 | docscrutinizer2 | so hp and bt shouldn't be a noticeable difference |
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| 22:00.08 | docscrutinizer2 | and battery would last for 100h if it were just for hp or bt |
| 22:00.24 | docscrutinizer2 | cpu is the real power hog |
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| 22:30.35 | madxray | [OM2008.12] in illume I got the qt keypad randomly when switching workspaces and could not deactivate it...is this a known problem? |
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