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| 01:06.14 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * reeba920073e6 10/ (4 files in 2 dirs): |
| 01:06.14 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: serial: decouple writing from deliverData. bytes are first enqueued now in a |
| 01:06.14 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: queue per virtual channel, then written from within the mainloop when the |
| 01:06.14 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: write-ready-watch triggers. This should fix blocking in deliverData for good. |
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| 03:03.48 | Dave | How are you mokomen? |
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| 03:19.35 | Dave | :o |
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| 03:36.00 | Dave | slaxxins |
| 03:36.23 | slaxxin | SuperDave |
| 03:36.47 | slaxxin | well me nephew has left the world |
| 03:36.48 | Dave | Yes Yes |
| 03:37.11 | slaxxin | 2 boys die in a fire in fayettville |
| 03:37.20 | Dave | Wtf!? |
| 03:37.24 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:37.33 | slaxxin | forrest turner |
| 03:37.36 | Dave | I hope a freerunner wasn't responsible |
| 03:37.41 | slaxxin | nope |
| 03:37.46 | Dave | :( |
| 03:37.56 | slaxxin | have we had a freerunner fire? |
| 03:38.08 | Dave | Uhhh..... no.............. |
| 03:38.13 | Dave | sweeps something under the rug |
| 03:38.17 | slaxxin | smoke? |
| 03:38.22 | slaxxin | lolol |
| 03:38.48 | slaxxin | i was speaking of the whole community not u dave |
| 03:38.54 | slaxxin | :) |
| 03:38.55 | Dave | ¬_¬ |
| 03:39.25 | slaxxin | so sound chips burn ok? |
| 03:39.39 | Dave | Are you making fun of me again? |
| 03:39.44 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:39.45 | *** part/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-24-6-167-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:39.49 | slaxxin | NO |
| 03:39.50 | Dave | _~ |
| 03:39.51 | Dave | ~_~ |
| 03:39.52 | apt | STOP DOING THAT! |
| 03:40.01 | Dave | apt, give me a break. |
| 03:40.01 | apt | ACTION gives a break. to dave |
| 03:40.06 | Dave | -_-; |
| 03:40.10 | slaxxin | duck dave |
| 03:40.11 | Dave | thanks... I guess -_- |
| 03:40.59 | slaxxin | so theres not been a freerunner cathch fire right? |
| 03:41.40 | Dave | Unofficially, I melted one last summer |
| 03:41.46 | Dave | but no fires, no. |
| 03:42.13 | slaxxin | well just a chip or did it get hot? |
| 03:42.44 | Dave | 200+F? |
| 03:42.53 | Dave | you be the judge :P |
| 03:43.07 | slaxxin | ouch |
| 03:43.52 | Dave | Yeah it was like 180F - 250F over 3 hours and change |
| 03:43.56 | Dave | I baked it :D |
| 03:44.01 | Dave | :( |
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| 03:46.04 | Dave | rooly! |
| 03:46.17 | rooly | yo yo |
| 03:46.53 | Dave | what up, yo |
| 03:47.04 | rooly | nm, just sittin around |
| 03:47.10 | rooly | lost me a game of 5$ poker |
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| 03:49.42 | Dave | meh |
| 03:57.38 | mwester | ya bought a freerunner, you lost you a game of $500 poker |
| 03:58.07 | Dave | :D |
| 03:58.17 | Dave | what a gamble |
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| 04:58.43 | slaxxin | yup i bought the spares pack |
| 04:59.04 | slaxxin | y then ended up losing 1 battery |
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| 05:00.19 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
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| 05:09.33 | slaxxin | i wonder how much stuff in the iphone started as open source software? |
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| 05:18.23 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03rod 07fso-makefile * r01d0be38f8a8 10/openembedded.mk: Use the bitbake -k flag when building package feeds |
| 05:18.25 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03rod 07refs/remotes/origin/HEAD * r546eec45b4ae 10fso-makefile/Makefile: Fixed the tracking of the stable branch |
| 05:18.26 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03rod 07refs/remotes/origin/master * r546eec45b4ae 10fso-makefile/Makefile: Fixed the tracking of the stable branch |
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| 06:37.20 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r4ae7746ea508 10/tests/sim.py: tests: add tests from storing messages into the SIM |
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| 06:52.33 | kgoetz | rwhitby: i dont know what your magic touch is, but i left the FR outside for 3 hours today and it didnt havea single satalite when i got it inside |
| 06:52.59 | rwhitby | kgoetz: was it set to the gps app in zhone? |
| 06:53.08 | rwhitby | and did it suspend? |
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| 06:53.56 | rwhitby | outside, holding it upright, touching the screen regularly so it doesn't suspend, with the zhone GPS applet active, you should get a fix within 5 minutes. |
| 06:56.20 | lindi- | interesting, I have managed to crash busybox syslogd :) |
| 06:56.25 | kgoetz | rwhitby: the gps app which you showed me - which has the coloured bars. |
| 06:56.31 | kgoetz | lindi-: nice work! |
| 06:56.43 | rwhitby | kgoetz: yep |
| 06:56.57 | kgoetz | rwhitby: it may have suspended, i thought i disabled it, but i probalby didnt -i'm still getting the hang of that image :) |
| 06:57.14 | rwhitby | there are about four things you need to change to stop it suspending. |
| 06:57.27 | rwhitby | zhone and e and probably something else all try and make it suspend |
| 06:57.53 | kgoetz | ah.i'll sit and keep touching it >.> |
| 06:57.56 | Wonka | lets loose a stream of curses about SHR |
| 06:59.13 | Wonka | i complained over a week ago about the lost screen lock on the AUX button |
| 06:59.24 | Wonka | got told it was known |
| 06:59.45 | Wonka | todau, opkg update, opkg upgrade |
| 07:00.11 | Wonka | after a whole week of not touching shr unstable |
| 07:00.32 | Wonka | it upgraded python-elementary. |
| 07:00.41 | Wonka | and that was all. |
| 07:01.32 | Wonka | in that week, i have written my own screen locker for debian... |
| 07:02.06 | Wonka | and the terminal i use under debian can handle utf8 chars |
| 07:02.57 | Wonka | and i built a german layout for matchbox-keyboard... |
| 07:03.33 | Wonka | i think i will just go back to debian for now |
| 07:04.13 | Wonka | although it's frameworkd is ages old |
| 07:04.21 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 07:04.26 | Wonka | and no ophonekitd at all. |
| 07:04.59 | Wonka | will look how i can install duke3d and stuff |
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| 07:07.14 | Wonka | *nag* *nag* SHR needs YOU *nag* |
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| 07:07.46 | Wonka | an<- slightly frustrated |
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| 07:31.01 | PaulFertser | Wonka: debian featured FSO ms5 before it was officially released. |
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| 07:36.16 | Wonka | PaulFertser: but it still doesn't update clock on acquiring gps fix |
| 07:37.07 | PaulFertser | Wonka: do you think that's because an old frameworkd version? Probably you miss a setting in your config? |
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| 07:45.55 | PaulFertser | Wonka: 2009.02.06 10:36:33 ogspd.gpsdevice INFO enabling ... 2009.02.06 10:37:11 otimed INFO adjusting clock by 87.798581 seconds |
| 07:47.24 | PaulFertser | Wonka: timesources = GPS,NTP in the [otimed] section in config. |
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| 07:50.13 | Wonka | PaulFertser: hrm, why didn't the config get updated automatically, debian-style? i didn't touch it and cannot remember any question about it... |
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| 07:50.47 | PaulFertser | Wonka: ask nomeata ;) |
| 07:50.50 | Wonka | PaulFertser: but still, this would make a relatively big point of criticism a relatively small one ;) |
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| 08:17.18 | spaetz | lindi-: no FSO and SHRÂ trac are totally separate. different account etc |
| 08:17.37 | spaetz | It should be possible to set a search up that queries both though |
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| 08:18.16 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 08:21.31 | *** join/#openmoko damunix (n=damunix@ARennes-257-1-84-3.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:23.09 | jd666 | [A |
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| 08:27.09 | damunix | hi |
| 08:28.01 | damunix | does anyone uses a GTA01 ? |
| 08:28.53 | *** join/#openmoko poco (n=neil@vau06-1-89-85-32-52.dsl.club-internet.fr) |
| 08:29.18 | damunix | I have a problem with the usb host with 2.6.26 kernel, anyone already try to make it work ? |
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| 08:32.31 | lindi- | spaetz: we should have a web of bug tracking systems |
| 08:35.39 | *** join/#openmoko khorben (n=khorben@bgl93-2-82-226-41-47.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:38.24 | spaetz | and only one account for FSO, OE, SHR, OpenMoko, etc |
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| 08:41.06 | PaulFertser | spaetz: main OM bugtracker will never work properly because of "political issues". That's what basically Andy said on the kernel ML. So, forget about it. We'll be lucky if this will not happen with FSO bugtracker as well. |
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| 08:42.28 | methril | morning |
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| 09:15.41 | panicking | Hi all |
| 09:15.58 | panicking | I start writing an open source ril library for android openmoko |
| 09:16.19 | panicking | and I know that GTA02 is a ti compatible chip |
| 09:16.32 | panicking | I think that having the mux |
| 09:16.45 | panicking | is not really need for gsm |
| 09:16.53 | panicking | is it correct? |
| 09:17.18 | panicking | the at command are always followed by \r |
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| 09:21.00 | PaulFertser | panicking: so, G haven't yet released their GSM library? |
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| 09:24.30 | PaulFertser | panicking: using multiplexing mode is highly recommended, because you'll be able to separate unsolicited replys and at commands, be notified of incoming messages, etc. Moreover, if you start a PPP GPRS session on a dedicated channel, you'll have a chance to still see incoming call or message indication and answer the call (GPRS will be suspended for the duration of call) |
| 09:24.47 | PaulFertser | panicking: for more information why multiplexing is good, ask mickey|zzZZzz :) |
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| 09:27.43 | tig| | 'ning all |
| 09:27.44 | PaulFertser | panicking: What's the status of openness of G1, btw? Is the kernel fully opened? What parts of software are still closed? Is google trying to screw us again talking obout "open source" and stuff while they don't really give us free software? |
| 09:28.32 | panicking | ok |
| 09:28.34 | panicking | I know |
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| 09:30.57 | PaulFertser | panicking: it'd be very nice of you if you answered my questions, btw. |
| 09:31.45 | igor321 | he doesn't work for google ya know |
| 09:31.46 | panicking | I don't know the status of G1, I'm not intersted on it |
| 09:32.00 | tig| | last I heard was that you could not flash unsigned kernels onto a retail G1 only the dev version |
| 09:32.18 | PaulFertser | panicking: but you seem to be the google advocate as you're interested in android. |
| 09:32.45 | igor321 | noone's a google advocate, it's just software that works |
| 09:32.59 | PaulFertser | igor321: proprietary software? |
| 09:33.20 | igor321 | PaulFertser: some parts of it, yes |
| 09:33.34 | igor321 | mostly in userland |
| 09:33.57 | PaulFertser | igor321: then why Andy spends so much time working on kernel parts that are needed to run proprietary software?? |
| 09:34.49 | igor321 | PaulFertser: you could also run proprietary apps in om2008 |
| 09:34.51 | tig| | PaulFertser: best person to talk to would probably be Chris De Bona who is the Open Source Program Manager at Google (and a very nice chap) who will most likely know what parts of android google are/can open |
| 09:35.28 | PaulFertser | igor321: but it's not the focus of the kernel devs. And running android for some unknown reason is. See the difference? |
| 09:35.46 | igor321 | PaulFertser: android _is_ open |
| 09:36.04 | igor321 | the only thing closed is the telephony lib |
| 09:36.06 | damunix | does gta01 support usb host ? |
| 09:36.08 | igor321 | soon to be opened up |
| 09:36.19 | PaulFertser | igor321: you can't say it's open while some part of it is closed. |
| 09:36.30 | igor321 | those closed apps are not in the openmoko dist of android |
| 09:36.44 | PaulFertser | igor321: except telephony lib |
| 09:36.52 | igor321 | PaulFertser: okay then, it will be open as soon as that library is open |
| 09:36.59 | igor321 | or someone ports OM's library |
| 09:37.11 | igor321 | or panicking writes a new one :) |
| 09:37.27 | PaulFertser | igor321: GPL requires that the user will be given ability to recompile and run recompiled versions. Is it the case with end-user G1? |
| 09:38.05 | igor321 | PaulFertser: dunno man, not really interested in G1, but i believe you can't |
| 09:38.15 | igor321 | android on the freerunner is more my game |
| 09:38.34 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@217.113.163.70) |
| 09:38.47 | igor321 | btw not sure gpl2 does that |
| 09:38.50 | igor321 | maybe v3 |
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| 09:40.06 | PaulFertser | igor321: "plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable." That's from GPLv2 |
| 09:41.07 | igor321 | i understand that signed kernels are not in the "spirit" of gpl |
| 09:41.08 | PaulFertser | igor321: and if google is trying to take away freedom from users of G1, i think that's highly immoral and nobody should help them to make android run anywhere. Why help bad people? Use bad people's software? |
| 09:41.46 | catsup | :D |
| 09:41.51 | igor321 | first of all google ain't bad |
| 09:41.56 | catsup | in conclusion, fuck google |
| 09:42.17 | PaulFertser | igor321: they support Chinese goverment and censorship? How that can be not bad? |
| 09:42.22 | *** join/#openmoko ccfly (n=ccfly@212.235.185.131) |
| 09:42.24 | catsup | google has too much information |
| 09:42.25 | ccfly | hello folks :) |
| 09:42.44 | PaulFertser | igor321: and that particular trick with signed G1 kernel is plain disgusting. |
| 09:42.44 | igor321 | PaulFertser: you have to weigh between the good and the bad |
| 09:42.46 | catsup | it's like having nuclear weapons |
| 09:43.05 | igor321 | PaulFertser: also you have to differentiate beetween software and hardware |
| 09:43.12 | catsup | PaulFertser, you know the newer GPL versions have been designed to prevent that kind of bullshit |
| 09:43.12 | igor321 | firstl google doesn't make the G1 |
| 09:43.23 | PaulFertser | igor321: they fully support it. |
| 09:43.24 | igor321 | that's t-mobile's doing |
| 09:43.39 | igor321 | hardware can also be free and unfree |
| 09:43.44 | doc|home | t-mobile don't make it either |
| 09:43.47 | PaulFertser | catsup: i know but even GPL2 doesn't allow to close down hardware completely. |
| 09:43.57 | catsup | PaulFertser, i'm not sure about that |
| 09:44.08 | PaulFertser | catsup: "plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable." That's from GPLv2 |
| 09:44.10 | catsup | in fact i believe you are wrong |
| 09:45.10 | catsup | i see how you are trying to bend that passage and it is somewhat plausible in a certain way, but i don't think it can be taken seriously as having legal force |
| 09:45.24 | kd8ikt | ... |
| 09:45.28 | igor321 | i consider it a loophole myseld |
| 09:45.30 | igor321 | *f |
| 09:45.30 | kd8ikt | goog morning |
| 09:45.31 | PaulFertser | catsup: if you can install something, but can run, that can't be called installation. |
| 09:45.44 | PaulFertser | s/can run/can't run/ |
| 09:45.52 | catsup | PaulFertser, yeah, but "the scripts necessary" refers to information, but in the case of a locked hardware platform there's something else |
| 09:45.58 | ccfly | it's called Tivoization, GPL3 closes that nasty loophole I beleive |
| 09:46.07 | PaulFertser | catsup: scripts necessary includes hardware keys |
| 09:46.15 | catsup | haha but those are not scripts |
| 09:46.17 | catsup | you see what i mean |
| 09:46.19 | catsup | you are bending it |
| 09:46.29 | catsup | it does not say "everything necessary for installation" but "scripts necessary for installation" |
| 09:47.32 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-155-240-150.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 09:47.44 | igor321 | it's irrelevant to our discussion, android's got all it takes to install it anywhere, being unable to install it on the G1 is a hardware issue |
| 09:47.54 | PaulFertser | catsup: ok, i might be wrong that it's legally enforceable. But i consider everybody who goes this way highly immoral to say the least. |
| 09:48.08 | PaulFertser | igor321: that's what google wants. |
| 09:48.14 | catsup | igor321: no you see |
| 09:48.48 | igor321 | PaulFertser: google or the telcos |
| 09:49.12 | catsup | igor321: hacking on android is like adding features to the g1 |
| 09:49.19 | catsup | and fuck that shit! |
| 09:49.28 | PaulFertser | igor321: It's google. If they didn't want a deal with telcos, they wouldn't. |
| 09:49.42 | igor321 | aren't you adding features to the FR the same? |
| 09:49.50 | kd8ikt | tries to turn the thermostat down |
| 09:49.50 | panicking | PaulFerser: I little bit confusing! I can change android file and try it on the freerunner? |
| 09:49.51 | PaulFertser | catsup: yeah, fuck that shit, i agree. |
| 09:49.55 | catsup | if i'm writing code for a proprietary phone at least i want a piece of the proprietary income you know what i mean |
| 09:50.04 | kd8ikt | hope your brought your asbestos suit |
| 09:50.22 | *** join/#openmoko bubak (n=martin@4.179.broadband10.iol.cz) |
| 09:50.25 | PaulFertser | panicking: i don't know what you mean. What android file? |
| 09:50.38 | panicking | If I add a new ril |
| 09:50.45 | panicking | for the freerunner |
| 09:50.55 | panicking | It's a problem |
| 09:50.57 | panicking | ? |
| 09:51.03 | catsup | ril? |
| 09:51.08 | PaulFertser | panicking: why do you want to do anything for Android at all? |
| 09:51.20 | panicking | or if I change the HubKeyboard lock? |
| 09:51.26 | panicking | type |
| 09:51.30 | igor321 | you guys should be aware that there's more to android than the G1 |
| 09:51.43 | igor321 | it's really plain to see |
| 09:51.51 | igor321 | it runs on the fr it runs on the beagle |
| 09:52.04 | PaulFertser | igor321: G1 shows google's intentions, and that's dead important! |
| 09:52.41 | catsup | man google is just buying up all the big databases it can get |
| 09:52.58 | igor321 | i really don't consider google responsible for the hardware |
| 09:53.02 | PaulFertser | And advertising their online "services" |
| 09:53.09 | igor321 | that's neither made by them nor sold by them |
| 09:53.28 | PaulFertser | igor321: but inspired by them, that's for sure. And they're happy to support that hardware first. |
| 09:53.45 | catsup | if they're writing software for it, then it's made by them |
| 09:53.48 | igor321 | actually the phone google _does_ sell has no restrictions of the sort |
| 09:53.57 | igor321 | so yeah, you have a moot point there guys |
| 09:54.39 | catsup | what phone google does sell |
| 09:54.40 | PaulFertser | igor321: google is playing together with telcos, on their side. Can't you see it? |
| 09:54.45 | PaulFertser | catsup: dev variant |
| 09:54.50 | PaulFertser | catsup: "unlocked" |
| 09:54.53 | catsup | oh |
| 09:54.57 | catsup | but overpriced |
| 09:55.10 | catsup | that's what i see as the future of unlocked hardware |
| 09:55.23 | catsup | it will always be available to developers, maybe with special professional licensing like doctors or whatever |
| 09:55.33 | catsup | but for the majority, 'trusted computing' |
| 09:55.46 | igor321 | no man, with openmoko, the floodgates are open |
| 09:55.53 | catsup | heh |
| 09:55.57 | catsup | i mean computers man |
| 09:56.00 | igor321 | i expect to see more open hardware in the future |
| 09:56.01 | catsup | PCs |
| 09:56.14 | catsup | maybe there's increasing impetus to manufacture it |
| 09:56.43 | catsup | but for that very reason there is increasing impetus on the part of those outside of the industry to control and surveil communication |
| 09:57.44 | *** join/#openmoko d-b (n=alias@124-171-36-187.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 09:57.48 | igor321 | for now, short of producing your own chips and licencing your own spectrum in "freeland" somewhere, there's really no way to control that |
| 09:57.58 | igor321 | yeah it sucks |
| 09:58.03 | catsup | um |
| 09:58.07 | catsup | i'm not talking about phones |
| 09:58.15 | igor321 | what you talking bout |
| 09:58.17 | catsup | computers |
| 09:58.26 | catsup | PCs, whatever |
| 09:58.28 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal (n=azaghal@91.148.115.145) |
| 09:58.41 | catsup | i think phones are how PCs get taken over by closed platforms, they will break in |
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| 09:58.57 | catsup | because of their mobile connectivity, they will be better than open platforms, even while being closed |
| 09:59.25 | igor321 | i see |
| 09:59.33 | *** join/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@210.13.121.62) |
| 09:59.34 | *** part/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@210.13.121.62) |
| 09:59.35 | PaulFertser | Fuck, that android shit made me feel even worse than before :( |
| 09:59.46 | *** join/#openmoko khorben (n=khorben@nat/af83/x-b9999122027cfd93) |
| 10:00.31 | igor321 | you all should read some android code or something, to make you feel betweer |
| 10:00.43 | igor321 | compile it for the x86, it's free software dammit :) |
| 10:00.49 | igor321 | *better |
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| 10:02.53 | PaulFertser | bullshit |
| 10:04.11 | *** join/#openmoko CM (i=cm@shaka.acc.umu.se) |
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| 10:38.31 | piksi | hi, just out of curiosity: are there plans to make openmoko compatible with android phones such as the G1 ? |
| 10:39.07 | KenYoung | piksi, Compatible in what way? The Openmoko Freerunner already can run Android. |
| 10:39.48 | PaulFertser | Fuck android! |
| 10:39.56 | piksi | as my sentence stated: compatible as in android phones able to run openmoko |
| 10:40.35 | PaulFertser | piksi: android phones are too locked up. Otherwise, FSO aims to be compatible to as much devices as possible. |
| 10:40.57 | piksi | i got my hands on a google dev phone and after finding out that apps need to be written in java (eew) with a closed api (eew) i was very disappointed |
| 10:41.05 | kd8ikt | how long do you guys plan to be at each others throats? |
| 10:41.48 | PaulFertser | kd8ikt: until i die!!! |
| 10:41.57 | PaulFertser | kd8ikt: ;) |
| 10:42.12 | piksi | PaulFertser: doesn't even the G1 telnet root exploit give the ability to flash another os? (i'm not an expert on this) |
| 10:42.57 | MrShleee | PaulFertser: You understand google wants android to become WIDELY used by many providers? there are going to be limitations |
| 10:43.07 | KenYoung | I've got a G1 and a Freerunner - I greeatly prefer the Freerunner. The applications available for Android are almost comically bad. |
| 10:43.09 | MrShleee | they are targeting the iPhone, nothing more. |
| 10:43.15 | PaulFertser | piksi: porting FSO to G1 would be interesting, i think FSO developers will help you in that. |
| 10:43.15 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=Free_maN@217.174.199.201) |
| 10:43.46 | ccfly | well google has a problem with vendor which don't like an idea of open phones in hands of their customers |
| 10:43.50 | MrShleee | KenYoung: Nods.. We have the G2 coming to Australia soon. The contact includes a huge 700MB of data ;) |
| 10:43.53 | PaulFertser | MrShleee: i don't care about providers, fuck them |
| 10:43.57 | ccfly | so until that changes |
| 10:44.23 | ccfly | by vendors I meand providers if I can correct myself :> |
| 10:44.28 | MrShleee | until we can homebrew a G3 network, we're stuck |
| 10:44.41 | piksi | i'd love to see the ability for openmoko to spread onto android phones.. that would be awesome. luckily i got the unlocked phone so if someone forks android into something reasonable at least i'm able to change into that... |
| 10:45.16 | KenYoung | MrShleee, At least Apple insists that all iPhone plans have unlimited data. |
| 10:45.36 | MrShleee | Not in Australia, we have 1GB plans |
| 10:45.45 | piksi | but thanks for the info and good luck with the development :-) i'm all in for openmoko |
| 10:45.47 | KenYoung | MrShleee, Even for iPhones? |
| 10:45.52 | MrShleee | Nods. |
| 10:45.55 | kd8ikt | morning ken |
| 10:46.09 | KenYoung | kd8ikt, Good morning! |
| 10:46.15 | ccfly | why fork entire android, why wouldn't we just use their application level stuff (JVM, Java API) ? |
| 10:46.18 | MrShleee | I've got a 5GB plan with the only provider who offers them to the public |
| 10:46.22 | KenYoung | MrShleee, That's terrible. |
| 10:46.27 | MrShleee | with $20/MB over the limit |
| 10:46.59 | kd8ikt | damn |
| 10:47.02 | MrShleee | I have a $700 bill i'm trying to debate because I went over my limit |
| 10:47.05 | MrShleee | hah |
| 10:47.07 | KenYoung | I thought US providers were bad... |
| 10:47.13 | MrShleee | Atleast American has competition |
| 10:47.18 | kd8ikt | thats a bit excessive for a MB |
| 10:47.31 | *** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host221-133-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:47.34 | MrShleee | KenYoung: US has competition of sorts. |
| 10:47.37 | *** part/#openmoko piksi (n=piksi@pi-xi.net) |
| 10:48.00 | bubak | has anyone obtaing GPS fix with latest SHR unstable? |
| 10:48.26 | vanous123 | bubak: i do |
| 10:48.33 | *** join/#openmoko sleipnir (n=Sleipnir@p4FDD6072.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:48.40 | MrShleee | Australia has 3 networks.. none of them willing to move forward, they still charge 20c per sms |
| 10:48.49 | MrShleee | and blah blah blah, they want it to be 1999 forever |
| 10:49.07 | MrShleee | No effort onto mobile internet |
| 10:49.20 | vanous123 | bubak: i have flashed unstable from Jan 19, updated yesterday and got fix in 30 secs |
| 10:49.28 | transylvania | Same problem in France, 3 operators, same offers and price ... |
| 10:51.12 | bubak | vanous123: thanks for info, i will try again, maybe the kernel is the key, i have jan 22 |
| 10:51.34 | rzr | transylvania: until free.fr will change the bizness :) |
| 10:51.35 | bubak | * i will try again == will not give up :) |
| 10:52.34 | vanous123 | bubak: shr/fso starts gps with some agps logic, if your time/timezone is not correct it may be slower i've heard |
| 10:54.25 | transylvania | rzr: not done for the moment |
| 10:55.27 | bubak | vanous123: i have CET, time is stored in UTC of course and im unable to get a fix since i have the jan 22 version, with some december release, it was ok and worked as expected |
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| 10:55.55 | bubak | vanous123: you think i can change the tz to UTC entirely? |
| 10:56.04 | vanous123 | bubak: i had the same feeling yesterday, this is why i flashed Jan 19 |
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| 10:56.35 | vanous123 | bubak: but i have also figured navit has changed conf a bit so this was confusing me too |
| 10:56.53 | bubak | vanous123: there is no more jan 19 version :( |
| 10:56.55 | vanous123 | bubak: i just wen outside and got a fix in about half minute |
| 10:57.03 | vanous123 | i have it localy stored |
| 10:57.18 | bubak | may i ask you for a copy? |
| 10:57.24 | bubak | just kernel and modules? |
| 10:57.34 | bubak | i can offer ftp access somewhere |
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| 10:58.57 | vanous123 | bubak: i have uploaded the kernel here: http://vanous.penguin.cz/files/om/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin |
| 10:59.15 | vanous123 | bubak: you might have to wait a bit, it'Ä being scp'd and it takes a while |
| 10:59.45 | vanous123 | bubak: ok, it's complete now |
| 11:00.09 | rzr | transylvania: http://www.newlc.com/en/forum/strategie-freeiliad-et-la-telephonie-mobile |
| 11:00.35 | bubak | vanous123: downloading |
| 11:00.54 | bubak | vanous123: kernel done |
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| 11:30.41 | PaulFertser | piko: it seems that even stock G1 can be unlocked quite easily thanks to dedicated attackers. And it already runs Debian (in chroot) |
| 11:32.21 | PaulFertser | it was meant for piksi but he's gone :-/ |
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| 11:40.40 | PaulFertser | Android dev clarify what userspace bits on G1 are proprietary: http://www.telesphoreo.org/pipermail/g1-hackers/2009-January/000495.html |
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| 12:28.15 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * rb8430f9e8898 10/src/ (channel.vala serial.vala): write fewer bytes in a row to the pty; give other channels a chance to transmit data as well |
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| 12:57.04 | enriko | has anybody tried the hackable:1 |
| 12:57.07 | enriko | ? |
| 12:57.25 | dns53 | is it avalable? |
| 12:57.34 | enriko | yeah |
| 12:57.42 | enriko | a beta |
| 12:58.07 | enriko | needs a 2G sd |
| 12:59.01 | herby | .whats that? (got a link for me?) |
| 12:59.21 | henk | debian based gnome mobile distro |
| 12:59.28 | henk | it's in the wiki |
| 12:59.32 | herby | thanks |
| 12:59.39 | enriko | does it work |
| 12:59.41 | enriko | ? |
| 12:59.49 | enriko | gsm calls and messages |
| 12:59.54 | enriko | ? |
| 13:00.45 | henk | i guess not... it'd probably be a lot more popular if everything worked reliably |
| 13:00.49 | dns53 | it has security software |
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| 13:01.49 | henk | dns53: as i said: based on debian ;) |
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| 13:04.23 | enriko | so as today |
| 13:04.33 | enriko | still no software can make calls? |
| 13:04.53 | henk | not true. making calls should be possible with every distro |
| 13:05.02 | Weiss | makes calls just fine |
| 13:05.03 | enriko | ( i mean without echo and the possibility to answer to an incoming call ) |
| 13:05.04 | henk | if you hear the other side is a completely different topic. |
| 13:05.13 | henk | enriko: ah you mean like with a real phone? |
| 13:05.20 | enriko | yes |
| 13:05.36 | henk | then i don't know of one which works reliably for everyone trying it. |
| 13:05.46 | enriko | o tried some |
| 13:05.58 | enriko | qtextended has echo issues |
| 13:06.04 | enriko | and you can't answer a call |
| 13:06.07 | enriko | incoming |
| 13:06.35 | enriko | besides if you receive an sms you can't answer without a stylus |
| 13:07.10 | enriko | i am not understanding why something as a keyboard with large keys |
| 13:07.22 | enriko | is still not implemented |
| 13:07.33 | MrShleee | OM needs a full screen keyboard.. landscape |
| 13:07.55 | enriko | i don't want to use the stylus |
| 13:07.57 | herby | cant you just copy that keyboard with large keys from the.. uuhmm... openzaurus project!? |
| 13:08.10 | enriko | at least not to write an sms |
| 13:08.18 | Weiss | doesn't understand what magic secret all the other phone manufacturers know that we don't - they all work fine for everyone, despite clearly differing network conditions as we've found |
| 13:08.35 | MrShleee | enriko: The OM devs are working on the hardware stablity over functionalty at this very second |
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| 13:08.51 | enriko | i guess |
| 13:08.53 | henk | enriko: try qwo |
| 13:08.58 | enriko | qwo? |
| 13:09.07 | tig| | enriko: you do know that the sms software is designed to work as prediction so hitting the exact keys is not needed |
| 13:09.22 | henk | enriko: quikwriting for openmoko. alternative input method which works fine with the finger. |
| 13:09.25 | MrShleee | tig|: Its not perfect. |
| 13:09.35 | tig| | no it isn't perfect |
| 13:09.40 | henk | especially not for non-english text ;) |
| 13:09.41 | enriko | henk, on wich distro? |
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| 13:10.04 | henk | enriko: whatever... an opkg is available, but you can compile the source on debian or so. |
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| 13:15.44 | herby | so there aint any distro which can makeCalls/takeCalls without problems ? (i'm new to this) |
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| 13:17.27 | henk | afaik that's correct. |
| 13:17.37 | lindi- | henk: depends on what 'without problems' means :) |
| 13:17.44 | lindi- | blah, meant herby |
| 13:18.43 | herby | so its more like a pda which 'sometimes' can make calls and most the times its a pda...? |
| 13:18.52 | SpeedEvil | well. |
| 13:18.56 | SpeedEvil | pda may be strong. |
| 13:19.18 | SpeedEvil | It's got variable functionality almost daily with various images. |
| 13:19.35 | SpeedEvil | Stuff breaks or works randomly one week and not the next. |
| 13:19.40 | herby | (okay - got lots more 'equippment' that a pda -> gps bluetooth wifi ...) |
| 13:20.18 | henk | depends on the pda... |
| 13:20.19 | herby | SpeedEvil: okay... sounds a bit strange ... that things which used to work break again... |
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| 13:20.52 | SpeedEvil | herby: unfortunately, yes. |
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| 13:21.35 | SpeedEvil | It's a function of the tiny dev team unfortunately. |
| 13:21.39 | auge | hi |
| 13:22.08 | herby | i somehow dont really understand, that asfor its 'just' a linux based device it should be simple to get a voice connection through a systen interface of this 'computer' ... |
| 13:22.16 | SpeedEvil | It is. |
| 13:22.34 | SpeedEvil | kill the frontend, bring up a shell, start minicom, atd5551234 |
| 13:22.36 | herby | because its this cellphone technique? |
| 13:22.42 | SpeedEvil | Simple. |
| 13:23.02 | SpeedEvil | Getting it all to work as an integrated cellphone is somewhat harder unfortunately. |
| 13:23.09 | herby | okay... |
| 13:23.25 | SpeedEvil | And at the moment it seems that most effort is going into new hardware. |
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| 13:23.54 | SpeedEvil | Though some have commented that the existing hardware is just fine, and is not the problem (barring a couple of niggles) |
| 13:24.41 | herby | so in my mind...(my oppinion or whatever) is ...that everything should be shellbased ... which would be the simplified way... and then trigger window options.. for the x interface. |
| 13:24.51 | enriko | ok so i used 300 euros |
| 13:25.03 | enriko | for hardware that is born obsoleted |
| 13:25.21 | SpeedEvil | enriko: A) It was never said that it was a working phone. |
| 13:25.27 | SpeedEvil | enriko: B) Yes. :( |
| 13:25.27 | herby | enriko: where did you buy it? (Germany or Austria?) |
| 13:25.33 | enriko | germany |
| 13:25.35 | henk | SpeedEvil: it wasn't? |
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| 13:25.51 | herby | enriko: but not at pulster... right? |
| 13:26.12 | herby | enriko: (they just sell it for 250 bucks now=) |
| 13:26.12 | SpeedEvil | henk: actually no, on 'buy now' pages at openmoko at least it never actually specified functionality. |
| 13:27.44 | henk | SpeedEvil: there is a 'faq' on openmoko.com: Can i use my FreeRunner on any network, worldwide? |
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| 13:28.05 | SpeedEvil | henk: any GSM network worldwide. |
| 13:28.26 | herby | henk: which is nothing about the funktionality of the software... |
| 13:28.29 | auge | Is it possible to use the Freerunner as a SIP-Phone over WLAN? |
| 13:28.48 | SpeedEvil | henk: though you may need the right variant for your area - 850/900MHz |
| 13:28.55 | herby | auge: no clue - but i guess so. cause i had a zaurus ... that was possible.. |
| 13:29.28 | auge | hm |
| 13:29.29 | henk | the keyword is 'use'. i don't consider it 'usage' when the phone registers, but i don't really receive the sms, sms aren't sent, if i can answer a call sound quality is miserable, after a while i just get disconnected from the network without the phone noticing it, ... |
| 13:29.56 | auge | herby: its an important question for me ;) |
| 13:30.05 | henk | imho i _can't_ use it "on any network"... |
| 13:30.13 | herby | auge: (and reminding that both zaurus and freerunner are 'simple' linuxbased, thouchpad integrated, and low hardware featured computers...) |
| 13:30.37 | SpeedEvil | henk: true I was addressing merely hardware loimits |
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| 13:32.16 | herby | ... cant anyone connect to the guys who prog stuff like this gsm connections for companies and ask if they would prog the same feature (for open software) in their free time? :) |
| 13:32.21 | henk | SpeedEvil: i know. but this faq entry made me think 'ok, the phone seems to be usable as a phone. i don't care about gps, wifi and bluetooth, that'll probably work sooner or later, but the core phone functionalities (calls, sms) do work and they do work on any network...' |
| 13:32.35 | enriko | exactly |
| 13:32.51 | enriko | besides if it's an hardware problem |
| 13:32.56 | SpeedEvil | henk: at various times in history, the software stack has seemed on the verge of actually materialising as a real phone. |
| 13:32.57 | enriko | i should have my money back |
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| 13:33.15 | SpeedEvil | henk: then the software direction has gotten completely changed. |
| 13:33.18 | herby | henk: i just thought around the other way... maybe i cant use it as a phone... but as pda with many interfaces (bluetooth, wifi, usb, gps!) |
| 13:34.27 | herby | enriko: but is it really a hardware problem? (i'm not sure about that..) |
| 13:34.40 | SpeedEvil | herby: sorry - what is? |
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| 13:35.04 | enriko | herby, that's why i will never have my money back |
| 13:35.11 | enriko | i know |
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| 13:37.08 | herby | SpeedEvil: ...I just mentioned if not anyone could connect to the guys who prog gsm software at work ..(but i didnt adress that only to you...) :) |
| 13:37.59 | herby | at least there are some programmers who already did this fine... as in some other phones using linux or macOs (which is nearly the same) ... phone and sms functionality is working finde. |
| 13:38.25 | herby | these programmers... I somehow think that more than a handful of people... |
| 13:38.45 | *** join/#openmoko roman_ (n=roman@endor.theo2.physik.uni-stuttgart.de) |
| 13:39.11 | herby | ...could code that funktionality again..or at least take a look at the code and give some hints. That would help a lot! wouldnt it ?? |
| 13:39.39 | herby | (what a pitty that I havent already coded this... =) ) |
| 13:40.50 | henk | SpeedEvil: yeah, so? it ain't usable, is it? and the page looks like it is a phone, just not perfectly ready. and it's everything _but_ a phone... |
| 13:43.30 | henk | SpeedEvil: i don't care that they changed directions for software developement more often than i buy new underwear or whatever... they give the impression it's usable as a phone and it's not. not to start about reliability... that's all i'm saying and that's all i'm fscked up about. i like the device. once i got used to it being not usable as a phone at all for most of its owners, i started treating it like a mini computer and i really really like it. ... |
| 13:43.36 | henk | ... but i intended it to be a replacement for my old nokia, now i don't have money left for a mobile phone, which is a bit annoying too... |
| 13:43.47 | CIA-49 | openmoko: 03werner * r4914 10/developers/werner/wlan-trial/ (Makefile wlan-trial.myroot): |
| 13:43.47 | CIA-49 | openmoko: - wlan-trial.myroot: added busybox-udhcpd to allow for differential analysis |
| 13:43.47 | CIA-49 | openmoko: - Makefile: new target "dfu" to do all the flashing |
| 13:43.47 | CIA-49 | openmoko: - Makefile: bumped version |
| 13:44.31 | enriko | you can't say actually that is honest |
| 13:44.46 | enriko | to sell the device on the actual premisies |
| 13:45.28 | enriko | ok the website does not says that it's gonna work as a phone or a wifi device or a gps |
| 13:45.37 | enriko | but it does not say it's not working either |
| 13:45.38 | CIA-49 | openmoko: 03werner * r4915 10/developers/werner/wlan-trial/patch-20090206.patch: Patch used for this trial kernel. Not suitable for our baseline. |
| 13:45.53 | enriko | i mean i can bet |
| 13:46.01 | enriko | if there was a law suit |
| 13:46.05 | enriko | i would win |
| 13:47.10 | henk | exactly... one could have guessed from the mails on the mailing list but seriously: i don't read every products mailing list for 2 months just to find out whether it's stable or not. nobody is used to companies selling unstable hardware or hardware without working software or mobiles without mobile phone functionality yet... |
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| 14:03.25 | evolux | is there a way to activate the illume keyboard from an application without having library dependencies on ecore and stuff? |
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| 14:12.14 | slaxxin | up untill a point a few days ago there was a warning that this is a developmental phone that was not stable an is meant for developers an not end users so your lawsuit will fail:) |
| 14:12.53 | slaxxin | the notice was as plain as day |
| 14:15.34 | herby | ...has anyone tested the android image? |
| 14:16.25 | herby | just read that it sould make calls quite fine, but has to reboot if signal gets too bad .. |
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| 14:18.00 | slaxxin | and if u turn on gps u cant turn it off |
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| 14:24.53 | slaxxin | anybody installed with the new 02 kustomizer script? |
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| 14:26.42 | herby | is there anybody who actually develops any distro !? Or are just users in here?? |
| 14:27.14 | slaxxin | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:Kustomizer |
| 14:27.35 | slaxxin | ther are here |
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| 14:32.24 | PaulFertser_ | herby: no, some developers are monitoring this channel and answer on reasonable questions. |
| 14:33.14 | mwester | some developers answer unreasonable questions too. |
| 14:33.25 | mwester | some developers are even unreasonable themselves. |
| 14:34.27 | Weiss | hehe |
| 14:35.31 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: whom are you hinting at? ;) |
| 14:36.22 | *** join/#openmoko walker (n=walker@0x55535724.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 14:36.30 | herby | okay - thanks. just wanted to know. |
| 14:36.57 | mwester | Well, nothing other than the opinion the Om organization has of me, of course! :D (If you can't get them to work with you, I figure you can at least p*** them off.) |
| 14:37.15 | herby | hopefully i will be one of the developpers soon ;) but first i have to get my freerunner package ... und the "post" in Berlin really sucks... they always need one extra day. |
| 14:38.02 | mwester | Ah, another one with high hopes -- that will soon be ground into the dust by the pit of doom and despair that nothing but Openmoko development can create... |
| 14:38.18 | herby | is it forbidden to post links in here? |
| 14:38.24 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: :) |
| 14:38.25 | mwester | Speaking of that, how goes it, PaulFertser_ ? |
| 14:38.29 | herby | no - i wont be disappointed. |
| 14:38.41 | tig| | herby: feel free |
| 14:38.41 | mwester | herby: that's good -- low expectations is the key. |
| 14:39.42 | herby | mwester: i already made enough experiences in that direction. |
| 14:40.03 | herby | (used to code for several years.... and sometimes got really frustrated.) |
| 14:40.22 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: i'm mostly happy with .29 kernel, btw. Of known issues on GTA02 only alsa instability left, i think. And i've just reported at openmoko-cdevel my latest test of resume from GSM (i reproduced the inability to resume, but my FR was not disassembled atm). |
| 14:40.36 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * r6cbac30f96e3 10/src/multiplexer.vala: ignore 0710 data bytes until the channel has been cleared to send |
| 14:41.08 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: i still hope wi-fi issues will be sorted out soon, as Wernel still works for OM and has a good contact at atheros. |
| 14:41.40 | herby | so - for everyone who is waiting.... for whatever to happen!!!! (okay - lyrics in german, but nice melody!)..... enjoy some minutes on youtube and chill for a sekond!.... |
| 14:41.53 | herby | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx-bh6JHHO8 |
| 14:41.57 | herby | (enjoy) |
| 14:41.59 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: #1024 seems to be abandoned by OM or else they have payed for the ticket and accomodation to send Dieter wherever needed to reproduce it. |
| 14:42.07 | mwester | Werner is the only one there who has any skills for working with the community - I am beginning to think that we may yet have a working wifi on the gta02 after all. |
| 14:42.15 | mwester | As for the GSM - forget it. |
| 14:43.03 | PaulFertser_ | And ogsmd got some attention in Jan (but obviously not enough to be stable), that's good news too. |
| 14:43.04 | mwester | They've given up on the GTA02, and my bet is that the feel that fixing 666 was "sufficient" -- we're going to have to live with the rest of the problems. |
| 14:43.10 | mwester | It's all GTA03 now. |
| 14:43.16 | PaulFertser_ | Otherwise i'm extremely frustrated and dissatisfied. |
| 14:43.31 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r4c20045ac9b0 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): |
| 14:43.31 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO] Add support for the next-generation 07.10 multiplexer from FSO. |
| 14:43.31 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: Set 'ti_calypso_muxer' to 'fso-abyss'. Default value is gsm0710muxd for the time being. |
| 14:44.04 | mwester | "abyss" and the ti calypso -- that goes together, doesn't it? |
| 14:44.08 | mwester | :D |
| 14:44.09 | mickey|zzZZzz | hahaha |
| 14:44.12 | mickey|zzZZzz | it does |
| 14:44.12 | PaulFertser_ | And qtopia |
| 14:44.13 | mickey|zzZZzz | no kidding |
| 14:44.38 | herby | even if there is the gta03 comming... it will have the same os! only a different wifi driver!... where's the problem?! |
| 14:45.02 | PaulFertser_ | mickey|zzZZzz: No TIMEOUT here for more than a 24h. And i just disabled resetting of communication timeout on incoming data. |
| 14:45.45 | mickey|zzZZzz | PaulFertser_: interesting |
| 14:45.46 | mwester | herby: a) we have no stable kernel because Om is working on the latest unstable upstream kernel sources in order to get support for the chip in the 03 -- instead of making the 2.6.28 kernel work on the gta02. |
| 14:45.47 | mickey|zzZZzz | good news |
| 14:46.19 | mwester | herby: b) the problem parts in the 02 are not in the 03, so there is no need to fix those problems for the gta03. |
| 14:46.20 | herby | there is not one stable linux kernel available vor the chip used in gta02!!!??? |
| 14:46.42 | mickey|zzZZzz | PaulFertser_: i just completed my first phone call with the new muxer, so the basics are there now. will take a look at the timeout and flow control drama next |
| 14:46.48 | mickey|zzZZzz | but not today |
| 14:46.49 | mwester | herby: there has never been an OM-released kernel for the gta01 or the gta02 that can be considered stable. |
| 14:46.54 | mickey|zzZZzz | exhausted from too many muxer nightshifts |
| 14:46.55 | herby | does the gta03 have a different gsm chip also!? |
| 14:46.59 | mwester | yes |
| 14:47.16 | PaulFertser_ | mickey|zzZZzz: BTW, are you going to ask Dieter about #1024 (status, tickets, so on)? Or should i better write him an e-mail myself (i'm a bit reluctant to do that because i just "inappropriately" bashed Brenda because of her "community update")? |
| 14:47.35 | mwester | goes to re-read his mail, he didn't see anything. |
| 14:47.40 | herby | mickey|zzZZzz: are you the one who developped many stuff for the zaurus pda's as well!? |
| 14:47.42 | mickey|zzZZzz | PaulFertser_: feel free to contact him directly, he's really a nice guy |
| 14:47.49 | mickey|zzZZzz | herby: guilty as charged :) |
| 14:47.56 | PaulFertser_ | mickey|zzZZzz: the problem is: i'm not |
| 14:48.01 | mickey|zzZZzz | that's true, hehe |
| 14:48.15 | herby | wow! great work!! got a sl5500 myself! |
| 14:48.24 | *** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@i59F730D9.versanet.de) |
| 14:48.25 | mickey|zzZZzz | good ole times |
| 14:48.32 | herby | hehe :) |
| 14:48.37 | mickey|zzZZzz | i spent years on OpenZaurus |
| 14:48.43 | mickey|zzZZzz | too bad Sharp dropped the ball |
| 14:49.24 | herby | i didnt really follow the story on openzaurus... didnt know that sharp dropped it. |
| 14:49.33 | mickey|zzZZzz | well, the hardware |
| 14:49.46 | mickey|zzZZzz | once they pulled out of the EU and US market, it was doomed |
| 14:49.52 | mickey|zzZZzz | which is a shame really |
| 14:50.06 | mickey|zzZZzz | and they never understood nor tried to push anything upstream |
| 14:50.36 | herby | yepp. |
| 14:50.41 | herby | hmm |
| 14:51.35 | herby | at least i got one of your kernel images saved somewhere... so i will use my sl5500 for playing music in my bathroom :) streamed via wifi... |
| 14:51.51 | mickey|zzZZzz | righto |
| 14:53.09 | *** join/#openmoko Arhuaco (n=n@186.81.232.38) |
| 14:53.49 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.68.50) |
| 14:54.08 | *** join/#openmoko matholio (n=matttt@124-170-235-125.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 14:54.16 | *** join/#openmoko srdgame (n=srdgame@123.122.113.121) |
| 14:54.53 | henk | mwester: are you employee of openmoko? |
| 14:55.23 | tig| | I still have my collie :) |
| 14:55.28 | srdgame | hi all, where can I get the source of openmoko? |
| 14:55.42 | henk | srdgame: openmoko is a company... |
| 14:56.00 | srdgame | henk, I heard that it is open source |
| 14:56.16 | henk | the company? |
| 14:56.17 | slaxxin | oui |
| 14:56.34 | srdgame | I mean its code. |
| 14:57.12 | henk | srdgame: what's code? |
| 14:57.15 | ezekiel-v3 | openmoko is also a platform. srdgame, developer information is all over the wiki. |
| 14:57.39 | ezekiel-v3 | openmoko.org |
| 14:58.15 | srdgame | ezekiel-v3, I just saw one URL: http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/Om2008.9-Lite.iso |
| 14:58.19 | herby | cant you guys take the kernel from the zaurus systems? or is it a different chipset.. or such? |
| 14:58.35 | *** join/#openmoko e-Flex (n=e@78-69-212-22-no111.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 14:58.42 | *** join/#openmoko krau[away] (n=krau@200.184.118.130) |
| 14:58.52 | srdgame | ezekiel-v3, is there svn or git server? |
| 14:59.09 | ezekiel-v3 | srdgame: start over from the beginning. go to openmoko.org and click on 'wiki' |
| 15:00.17 | rzr | herby: do you follow zorus scene ? |
| 15:00.26 | ezekiel-v3 | oh, looks like it takes you straight to wiki.openmoko.org now anyway. |
| 15:00.44 | herby | rzr: I used to....years ago.. |
| 15:01.04 | rzr | no more news about it ? |
| 15:01.29 | rzr | ordered 2 FR yesterday |
| 15:01.29 | *** part/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.68.50) |
| 15:01.40 | herby | rzr: I dont have any... besides that zaurus is dead.... but. their kernels have been kinda stable.. |
| 15:02.15 | rzr | qtopia right ? |
| 15:02.18 | herby | so i wonder why there aint any stable kernel vor the gta02? |
| 15:02.24 | herby | yes - qtopia. |
| 15:02.40 | herby | which is available for the freerunner too... i guess. |
| 15:02.45 | rzr | is it ? |
| 15:02.59 | rzr | this will merge in maemo5 i think |
| 15:04.59 | herby | rzr: I thought i read it anywhere on the web that qtopia is available too... and i have seen screenshots of the qt logo on the FR. |
| 15:05.05 | henk | it is |
| 15:05.24 | herby | btw. anyone tested this project parolli ?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx-bh6JHHO8 |
| 15:05.46 | herby | they say that its possible to make calls if configured correctly. |
| 15:05.51 | herby | ups. |
| 15:05.54 | herby | wrong link. |
| 15:05.56 | herby | sorry. |
| 15:06.06 | herby | http://www.paroli-project.org/faq/ |
| 15:06.12 | herby | (this is what i meant) |
| 15:07.03 | *** join/#openmoko nio_ (n=nio@86.92.255.117) |
| 15:09.21 | herby | is waiting for the postman..... damn.. |
| 15:09.29 | *** join/#openmoko arfmarf (n=arfmarf@c-47b7e355.016-70-6f72653.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 15:10.49 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201.45.49.162) |
| 15:10.49 | henk | herby: making calls is possible with debian, Om, SHR, fso, ... probably any dist. 'making calls' as you know it from proper phones - i don't know. some people report, it is possible for them... it worked for me with the headset, when i tried it with fso and debian some times. |
| 15:12.33 | lindi- | herby: depends on what "stable kernel" means :) |
| 15:13.09 | Weiss | i would agree :) |
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| 15:14.22 | herby | henk: so where is the problem with calls like on a regular cellphone? does it get disconnectet? does it have bad quality (echo etc)? as for now i'm still waiting for the postman,... i can only ask for that (no own experiences) |
| 15:14.59 | herby | lindi: means what stable kernel means in general. like in any distro. a kernel with (nearly) no problems. |
| 15:15.02 | lindi- | herby: http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/334 is most disturbing to me right now |
| 15:15.07 | herby | (whicht doesnt crash etc) |
| 15:16.01 | Weiss | my FR hasn't crashed for months |
| 15:16.20 | lindi- | my fr just crashed when i tried xorg glamo driver from git |
| 15:16.37 | spydon | Weiss, dist? |
| 15:16.45 | Weiss | spydon: OM2008.12-testing |
| 15:17.02 | spydon | nice, how is the batterytime on that one? |
| 15:17.06 | Weiss | lindi-: which git repository? there are a few at the moment (this will soon be centralised) |
| 15:17.26 | lindi- | Weiss: git://github.com/larsclausen/xf86-video-glamo.git |
| 15:17.26 | herby | lindi: doesnt the vendor help ... a little on information about drivers ... or such? |
| 15:17.27 | Weiss | spydon: i get around 36 hours or so i think |
| 15:17.41 | lindi- | herby: vendor of calypso gsm chip is TI |
| 15:17.54 | toggles_w | Weiss: seirously, look at your phone, is there a logo on it that reads "Nokia"? |
| 15:18.02 | toggles_w | ;-) |
| 15:18.03 | herby | and they cannot give hints on the driver? |
| 15:18.21 | Weiss | lindi-: ah.. you're the person who just posted a report to OM-Devel? |
| 15:18.26 | SpeedEvil | The TI calypso chipset is basically end-of-life. |
| 15:18.37 | lindi- | Weiss: yes |
| 15:18.37 | Weiss | toggles_w: nope :)... i guess i just got luck |
| 15:18.39 | Weiss | lucky* |
| 15:18.51 | lindi- | Weiss: are you working on xorg? |
| 15:18.52 | SpeedEvil | They have _NO_ real interest in supporting an end-of-life chipset that a teeny maker bought 3 of. |
| 15:19.06 | *** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 15:19.13 | herby | is this calypso chipset used in any other device!?? (maybe not if its broken... like not usable) |
| 15:19.18 | SpeedEvil | (Well - 5000 maybe. but _TEENY_ volumes.) |
| 15:19.21 | Weiss | lindi-: yep. i'm Thomas White - posted in most of the threads on this subject |
| 15:19.25 | *** join/#openmoko jc_ (n=jc@88.146.126.102) |
| 15:19.31 | SpeedEvil | herby: your support level scales with the amount you spend. |
| 15:19.34 | Weiss | lindi-: i have a particular interest in getting DRI working, and building 3D support on top of that |
| 15:19.51 | lindi- | Weiss: i'd just want rotation :) i don't really need fancy features |
| 15:19.53 | amarsh04 | if it's eol I wish they'd release full documentation including errata |
| 15:19.55 | SpeedEvil | herby: if you buy 1000000 chipsets, then TI will fly people out to you to get it working. |
| 15:20.27 | SpeedEvil | herby: if you buy 5000, you'll get people looking at it as they have time once they're done with pressing office buisness like making paper-clip animals. |
| 15:20.58 | herby | what does one chipset of that cost...? |
| 15:21.07 | Weiss | lindi-: lars expressed a particular interest in randr and modesetting. we generally hope to have KMS working at some point as well |
| 15:21.11 | lindi- | herby: i don't think they sell individual chips :) |
| 15:21.16 | SpeedEvil | herby: This is a guess - but $10 would probably be ballpark. |
| 15:21.22 | SpeedEvil | herby: maybe $5 even |
| 15:21.35 | SpeedEvil | herby: @1K |
| 15:22.24 | herby | okay.. but if they really stop to produce it. will they publish the docs? |
| 15:22.28 | lindi- | Weiss: does resume work for you with xorg glamo? |
| 15:22.34 | lindi- | herby: probably not |
| 15:22.36 | SpeedEvil | herby: almost invariably not. |
| 15:22.59 | Weiss | lindi-: can't say i've tried... |
| 15:23.05 | lindi- | Weiss: ok |
| 15:23.09 | Weiss | lindi-: does it work if you temporarily switch back to xf86-video-fbdev? |
| 15:23.26 | lindi- | Weiss: i'll try. |
| 15:23.36 | SpeedEvil | herby: plus - that doesn't help you much |
| 15:23.59 | Weiss | lindi-: if yes, then it indicates the command queue stuff is doing something wrong. if not, then it could be some deeper problem with Xorg or the kernel |
| 15:24.04 | SpeedEvil | herby: you have a pile of source code and no knowledge of it. Probably no convenient build platform. |
| 15:24.13 | SpeedEvil | herby: (to build an image for the GSM module) |
| 15:24.24 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:24.27 | rzr | Weiss: about 3d , ise OM still hiring to get a decent glx impentation ? |
| 15:24.46 | henk | SpeedEvil: btw what client are you using? |
| 15:24.53 | SpeedEvil | herby: you then have to work out what's causing your bug - which is going to take someone skilled, and ... |
| 15:24.57 | lindi- | Weiss: just tested, fbdev works |
| 15:24.59 | herby | SpeedEvil: howcome the have no interest in their chipset beeing successful!? |
| 15:25.27 | SpeedEvil | herby: because it's a tail-end chipset on which they don't make much money |
| 15:25.37 | SpeedEvil | herby: and they don't sell many. |
| 15:25.43 | lindi- | Weiss: any ideas on what should i do to debug this? |
| 15:26.11 | PaulFertser_ | SpeedEvil: pile of source code would be extra-cool but OM doesn't have anything except small part (at command intepreter) afaik. |
| 15:26.18 | herby | with really stable linux drivers.... (even if they would be closed source) the FreeRunner would be the BOMB... stable calls would be the hit for this ! |
| 15:26.33 | SpeedEvil | herby: Do you A) Spend an hour of support time on a chipset where you make $5/chipset, and sell 10 million/yearonth, or one where you make $1/chipset, and are now selling 100K/year |
| 15:26.45 | Weiss | rzr: still hiring? don't *think* so.. they just took on two new graphics people who are also working partially on 3D. i guess 2D gets priority from them, but when moving to DRI, 2D and 3D become closely related |
| 15:26.50 | herby | then other ... manufacters would see that even the old chipset gets good quality and buy new chipsets... |
| 15:26.56 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser_: I was answering the hypothetical 'if TI stopped producing it would they release source' thing. |
| 15:27.06 | SpeedEvil | herby: doesn't work that way |
| 15:27.21 | SpeedEvil | herby: manufacturers of this stuff don't care about support of trailing edge stuff. |
| 15:27.27 | *** join/#openmoko bipak_ (n=bip@p57B8656D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:27.34 | Weiss | lindi-: anything in /var/log/Xorg.0.log? |
| 15:27.34 | SpeedEvil | herby: as they've already been there and done that design by the time it becomes important. |
| 15:27.48 | rzr | Weiss: ok , I'll try to track paid job on the website |
| 15:28.40 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@122-116-62-89.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 15:29.21 | herby | SpeedEvil: okay - they dont think that way. but am I right...? if they would behave otherwise - they would see it would pay out... or not? |
| 15:29.33 | SpeedEvil | herby: in some markets - yes. |
| 15:30.00 | SpeedEvil | herby: for example - microcontrollers. Your average spotty 12 year old can buy one, download the docs, and do stuff. Possibly even come up with a working product. |
| 15:30.02 | herby | (if other peoble see that an old chip got quality even though its end of life. they would buy a new chip of that company) |
| 15:30.34 | SpeedEvil | herby: however, for cellphones, you need perhaps $500 _minimum_ investment in PCBs and stuff to even get it working. |
| 15:30.53 | mwester | Most companies when they evaluate a vendor will examine how they have supported or dealt with customers of similar size -- so how TI treats Openmoko is completely insignificant to (for example) a company the size of Motorola. |
| 15:31.05 | SpeedEvil | herby: that's assuming you get it all right first couple of times, and completely neglecting certifications, which will add 2 zeros at least to that. |
| 15:31.25 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 15:31.34 | herby | SpeedEvil: shit- |
| 15:31.36 | SpeedEvil | The notion that Apple cares how TI treats OM is a joke. |
| 15:31.37 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@f051076166.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:31.48 | herby | cant someone break in and steel the fucking docs!? |
| 15:31.59 | SpeedEvil | herby: also the testgear you require to get it working properly will be $50K++ |
| 15:32.01 | jc_ | so.. I guess youre talking Calypso now... |
| 15:32.17 | SpeedEvil | herby: they have - google the calypso docs - the docs for hte hardware have been leaked. |
| 15:32.28 | SpeedEvil | jc_: to some extent |
| 15:32.42 | SpeedEvil | jc_: 90% of the above applies to the glamo and wireless chips too |
| 15:32.54 | *** join/#openmoko kraut` (n=kraut@e181116039.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:32.56 | herby | so its all about the code for that driver!? |
| 15:33.03 | jc_ | except nothing has leaked for the glamo even though several people have the docs ;) |
| 15:33.17 | SpeedEvil | herby: the calyupso has 2 ARM processors inside, and radios. |
| 15:33.18 | herby | whats the glamo? |
| 15:33.34 | Weiss | herby: graphics chip |
| 15:33.36 | SpeedEvil | herby: it has complex software stacks that run on these to implement GSM, and the AT command set. |
| 15:33.38 | herby | and what is radios? |
| 15:33.55 | SpeedEvil | herby: radio - voices through the air |
| 15:34.00 | jc_ | oh.. someone wants to fix gsm chipset firmware, am I wrong? :) |
| 15:34.02 | herby | ah okay. |
| 15:34.10 | herby | :) |
| 15:34.22 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 15:34.53 | herby | damn... there aint a openhardware... gms chip project..? |
| 15:35.14 | SpeedEvil | herby: it would actually be illegal to market a phone with such a device in some places. |
| 15:35.32 | jc_ | hmm.. people don't dyi fabricate chips with arm cores on a daily basis I'm afraid |
| 15:35.40 | SpeedEvil | herby: it would also be almost impossible to program. |
| 15:35.45 | spydon | yeah you can fuck up lots of stuff for other people with phones :P |
| 15:36.07 | mwester | and end up in jail in some countries |
| 15:36.19 | jc_ | and can't you do that if you just hack up a simple transceiver with the same modulation/frequencies and just put in noise ? |
| 15:36.28 | lindi- | Weiss: nope, nothing. it probably does not have time to write it to disk |
| 15:36.28 | mwester | yep |
| 15:36.39 | SpeedEvil | jc_: sure - there is a different issue between 'x bought a cellphone jammer' |
| 15:37.04 | jc_ | whats the difference with 'x bought a neo freerunner' |
| 15:37.07 | SpeedEvil | jc_: and 400000 asocial 12 year olds download a 'free' data transfer app that uses the GSM channels without regulation. |
| 15:37.10 | toggles_w | so when's the gta03 due out? |
| 15:37.16 | jc_ | you can jam a wifi with that.. I don't see why you shouldnt be able to jam gsm ;) |
| 15:37.26 | Weiss | lindi-: either at the time of suspend/resume or at the reboot? |
| 15:37.33 | mwester | jc_: because cops use gsm, but they don't (yet) use wifi? |
| 15:37.47 | jc_ | wifi is on ISM band... |
| 15:37.54 | mwester | It's about power (political). |
| 15:37.55 | jc_ | afaik, you can put whatever you want on that |
| 15:38.06 | jc_ | at least here |
| 15:38.17 | *** join/#openmoko tig| (n=Tig@aurix2.plus.com) |
| 15:39.03 | herby | all that stuff sucks so much... its all about the greed of the companies.... *sigh* |
| 15:39.06 | mwester | jc_: no, there are regulations. but the point is that if you mess with (for example) a ham radio band, you'll annoy a lot of people. If you tweak the dial just a bit, and mess with "voice of america", you'll annoy a few powerful people for a short time, then they will annoy you. :) |
| 15:39.21 | lindi- | Weiss: neither |
| 15:39.31 | lindi- | Weiss: should it log something at suspend? |
| 15:39.49 | jc_ | mwester, there are some radiation regulations here.. at one point, our government actually came around with spec analyzers when they discovered there were several wifis in here, fun stuff watching them |
| 15:39.51 | mwester | jc_: GSM falls into the "powerful people are watching" category, wifi does not. |
| 15:40.03 | lindi- | jc_: is it legal to jam wifi? ;) |
| 15:40.18 | jc_ | but aside from those, you can put whatever you want on the ism band |
| 15:40.25 | jc_ | be it bluetooth, wifi or a microwave |
| 15:40.38 | mwester | jc_: you do understand that GSM is not on the ism band? |
| 15:40.44 | jc_ | yeah |
| 15:40.46 | mwester | OK |
| 15:40.50 | lindi- | jc_: but wifi has to detect radar and stop transmitting if it detects that one is in use |
| 15:40.58 | lindi- | jc_: you can't just send anything |
| 15:41.04 | jc_ | lindi-, bt does that, afaik |
| 15:41.27 | lindi- | jc_: bt is so low power that it probably is not an issue? |
| 15:41.40 | lindi- | jc_: i am not sure if bt is required to avoid radars |
| 15:42.09 | jc_ | lindi-, bluetooth hops around everything |
| 15:42.18 | herby | ^^ |
| 15:42.21 | Weiss | lindi-: maybe. i haven't looked much at what log messages are given by that version of the driver.. |
| 15:42.22 | herby | hip hop.. |
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| 15:43.54 | lindi- | Weiss: at least source code does not mention suspend |
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| 15:48.38 | Weiss | lindi-: yeah. i strongly suspect that the command queue engine of Glamo needs at least a reset after suspend.. maybe compare what Xglamo does? |
| 15:48.50 | lindi- | Weiss: checking... |
| 15:51.00 | SpeedEvil | herby: regulations are not due to greed. They are due to the fact that one person using a GSM channel to talk to their friend 2Km away without regulation will knock out 8 or 16 calls - some of which may be emergency calls. |
| 15:51.04 | lindi- | Weiss: grep -ri suspend ./hw/kdrive/glamo |
| 15:51.08 | lindi- | Weiss: does not find anything |
| 15:51.51 | Weiss | lindi-: hmm.. i wonder how it gets away with that... |
| 15:52.09 | lindi- | Weiss: maybe it uses some other term |
| 15:54.14 | lindi- | Weiss: does glamo lose power on suspend? |
| 15:54.25 | lindi- | Weiss: or can the hardware retain some state? |
| 15:55.12 | mwester | the kernel goes through much work to suspend the glamo and wake it back up; it does not lose power completely IIRC, but it is placed into a low-power state. |
| 15:56.08 | mwester | It does lose or reset some state, and if I understood the kernel efforts around the WSoD problem, the documentation is woefully lacking in what needs to be done to wake it correctly on resume. |
| 15:56.27 | lindi- | mwester: ok |
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| 15:56.53 | lindi- | mwester: any idea if userland (/usr/bin/Xglamo) is doing something special at suspend or resume? i am looking at the code but i can't immediately figure it out |
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| 15:57.22 | herby | SpeedEvil: that wasnt what i meant... I meant companies not trying to help a bit when they *think* it wouldt get them any money although its the best advertising fot their work (working chipsets) ... |
| 15:57.52 | SpeedEvil | herby: consider the other side |
| 15:57.53 | Weiss | looking at the glamo-core kernel code, it looks like the memory is supposed to keep its values, but the engines are disabled and reenabled over suspend. that'd certainly upset it... |
| 15:58.01 | Weiss | quetion is, why does Xglamo get away with it? |
| 15:58.16 | SpeedEvil | herby: you pull an engineer off talking to apple trying to get them to buy, to talk to someone that's bought a few dozen chips? |
| 15:58.51 | jc_ | herby: sure but they waste a lot of money on people power in it then and whats theyr guarantee anything will come up from it ? |
| 15:59.25 | jc_ | datasheets would be great, though |
| 15:59.26 | SpeedEvil | herby: especially given the person you probably want to talk to will cost TI well over a hundred dollars an hour. |
| 15:59.39 | Weiss | lindi-: glamo_power() in drivers/mfd/glamo/glamo-core.c if you're interested. there are some comments in the code |
| 16:00.37 | herby | SpeedEvil: why will it cost hundred dollars an hour talking to someone? |
| 16:01.16 | lindi- | herby: since their time is valuable? ;) |
| 16:01.24 | herby | the only problem i can see here ... is that the linuxdriver developped by XY doesnt work correctly... |
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| 16:02.01 | lindi- | herby: which driver are you talking about now specifically? |
| 16:02.11 | jc_ | with calypso, I think its about the firmware |
| 16:02.11 | herby | so the best thing which could happen is: TI progs one that is closed source (which is the firmware indeed since that is not intelligent to be put out OpenSource because of misuse) |
| 16:02.42 | herby | lindi: the gsm driver... |
| 16:02.49 | lindi- | herby: but it has nothing to do with linux |
| 16:02.57 | jc_ | the gsm driver is uart driver in kernel |
| 16:02.59 | lindi- | herby: so it's not "linux driver" |
| 16:03.00 | jc_ | which works fine |
| 16:03.05 | herby | okay. |
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| 16:03.30 | herby | is the firmware buggy ? or is it just not implemented in the driver the way it maybe could be? |
| 16:03.47 | lindi- | herby: yes |
| 16:03.51 | herby | (got no clue - just want to learn) |
| 16:03.53 | jc_ | yeah, from what I was told, lots os workarounds are necessary in the framework to get it working |
| 16:04.03 | jc_ | s/os/of/ |
| 16:04.12 | lindi- | jc_: and still some things are fundamentally broken in the parser :/ |
| 16:04.23 | jc_ | lindi-, what parser ? |
| 16:04.31 | lindi- | jc_: ogsmd |
| 16:04.42 | lindi- | jc_: that parsers AT responses |
| 16:04.44 | jc_ | lindi-, you call that 'the parser' ? :D |
| 16:04.44 | herby | i be gone.... need to picture the berlin sunset with my DSLR ;) |
| 16:04.47 | herby | see Ya. |
| 16:04.52 | jc_ | ah.. right.. |
| 16:05.06 | jc_ | herby: bye |
| 16:05.31 | lindi- | jc_: ogsmd has a StateBasedLowlevelAtParser |
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| 16:07.25 | jc_ | lindi- well.. thats what I figure, it parses messages from calypso and twiddles its internal state |
| 16:08.29 | SpeedEvil | her: because you have to train a senior skilled engineer that would otherwise be doing other productive stuff to support calypso. |
| 16:08.38 | SpeedEvil | oh |
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| 16:14.58 | Sargun | SpeedEvil, Calypso is pretty crappy, eh? |
| 16:17.21 | PaulFertser_ | mwester, lindi-: so, i disassembled my FR and now doing some tests: nothing gsm-related is running. I started minicom in one console. In the other i ensured that gsm reset is 0 and did echo 1 > power_on. |
| 16:17.30 | PaulFertser_ | After that i can communicate with modem via minicom |
| 16:17.36 | SpeedEvil | Sargun: as I understand it - hardwarewise - probably not |
| 16:17.41 | mwester | Don't forget to enable HW flow control. |
| 16:17.51 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: yes, it's HW. |
| 16:17.58 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: i'd use picocom, minicom is horrible but maybe that's just me :) |
| 16:18.08 | jc_ | lindi-, I hate it too |
| 16:18.36 | PaulFertser_ | Now, i manually assert the testpoint that powers the modem off. When i deassert, i see "AT-Command Interpreter ready" every time. |
| 16:18.47 | mwester | Yes. |
| 16:18.54 | mwester | That's correct |
| 16:19.05 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: and interrupt count increases? |
| 16:19.20 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: grep modem /proc/interrupts |
| 16:19.34 | PaulFertser_ | When i do echo 1 > flowcontrolled, and assert power line afterwards, i see interrupt counter incrementing. Only after echo 1 >flowcontrol and only once until i echo 0 >flowcontrol |
| 16:20.20 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: so if gsm sends the interrupt before the phone has suspended fully it won't generate more interrupts? |
| 16:20.22 | mwester | Yep, exactly correct |
| 16:20.39 | lindi- | (yes i know the suspend code is supposed to cancel suspend in this case but does it?) |
| 16:20.47 | mwester | The GSM will *ONLY* interrupt if it is flow-controlled and has data to send |
| 16:20.54 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: then i do the following: for i in `seq 50`; do echo 1 > flowcontrolled; echo mem > /sys/power/state; echo 0 > flowcontrolled ; done |
| 16:21.02 | PaulFertser_ | and try to resume by asserting power control |
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| 16:21.38 | lindi- | mwester: the questions is, is there a race between the above two first echo commands? |
| 16:22.00 | mwester | lindi-: there should be no race there. |
| 16:22.10 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: lindi- it works rarely to unsuspend. |
| 16:22.22 | lindi- | mwester: can you deassert the gsm power between those echo commands? ;) |
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| 16:22.31 | lindi- | sorry, meant PaulFertser_ |
| 16:22.39 | mwester | gsm power does not power off |
| 16:22.42 | PaulFertser_ | But mostly i'm able to unsuspend only with power button |
| 16:22.59 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: i assert the line that DOES really power off the modem. |
| 16:23.15 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: unless it has some parasitic power from elsewhere |
| 16:23.17 | mwester | gsm power is a "push-button" that powers up the GSM when enabled. Subsequent "pushing the button" resets it. |
| 16:23.32 | mwester | PaulFertser_: Nope, it does ot power off the GSM. |
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| 16:24.13 | jc_ | what if you cut vcc ? |
| 16:24.19 | jc_ | isnt it on some gpio ? |
| 16:24.21 | mwester | By pulling the battery? |
| 16:24.29 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: 3rd page of schematic, upper left corner, TP1760 controls U1705 switch. R1752 IS NC. |
| 16:24.30 | jc_ | nah i mean calypsos vcc |
| 16:24.30 | mwester | No, VCC for the GSM comes from the battery. |
| 16:24.40 | jc_ | nevermind then... |
| 16:24.45 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: upper right corner |
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| 16:25.08 | mwester | PaulFertser_: We've been over this on the mailing list with Werner and Andy and Jeorg. |
| 16:25.13 | mwester | But it doesn't matter. |
| 16:25.33 | mwester | The point is that if the GSM is flow controlled, and it powers up, the init message should cause it to interrupt. |
| 16:25.34 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: i can't touch the "push-button" because it buried deep. |
| 16:26.10 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: yes, i know. But it's not quite so in suspended state for an unknown reason. |
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| 16:28.48 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: when unsuspended i'm trying to do "echo 0 > flowcontrolled; grep modem /proc/interrupts; echo 1 >flowcontrolled" after every manual assertion and the irq counter increases every time |
| 16:30.03 | mwester | But not when suspended? |
| 16:30.04 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: And "push-button" is pressed all the time since i turned it on with echo 1 > power_on . |
| 16:30.10 | mwester | Ok |
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| 16:30.28 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: mostly i can't wake it up from suspend with asserting that point |
| 16:30.36 | PaulFertser_ | but sometimes it works |
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| 16:34.10 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: heh, it works every second time it seems |
| 16:34.22 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: push-button sucks :( |
| 16:37.51 | PaulFertser_ | Funny how that behaves different when not suspended... |
| 16:39.03 | PaulFertser_ | The test is obviously not entirely correct but i have control only over modem power switch while suspended :( |
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| 16:42.00 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: i'm sure i deassert power between these echo commands. |
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| 16:45.27 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: Any ideas? I can't imagine an explanation :( |
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| 16:49.17 | mwester | PaulFertser_: a) the GSM power-on/off is more complicated than we think, and it doesn't actually power-up the same way when suspended (perhaps the other GPIOs going to the unit affect it?) |
| 16:50.25 | mwester | b) the GSM is broken |
| 16:50.55 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: funny thing is it is too stable. Wakes up the board every second time :) |
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| 16:51.39 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: (other GPIOs) i think only CPU Rx probably changes state on suspend and i'm not sure in that... |
| 16:51.40 | mwester | PaulFertser_: when I was debugging the overrun problems and flow-control issues with the GSM, I found no reliable way to deal with it other than to suspend the phone, and send it an SMS to wake it. I blew through USD 50 in per-paid phone charges in a couple of months just working on that problem. |
| 16:52.33 | mwester | It is expensive to debug these issues. And part of the reason that Andy and Werner have not done so is that I don't think they even have operational SIM cards in their phones. |
| 16:53.01 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: why didn't you attached another cell phone to your PC to use that to call it (and you can avoid picking up), that'd be probably free? |
| 16:53.13 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: i use asterisk to make automated calls |
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| 16:54.57 | mwester | PaulFertser_: because incoming calls always woke it, but SMS did not. |
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| 16:55.35 | lindi- | mwester: they don't have operational sim? |
| 16:56.02 | PaulFertser_ | I wonder, how to summon Werner here? DocScrutinizer could do it in a minute. |
| 16:56.11 | mwester | lindi-: I theorize that they do not, because I do not recall any time they have run any tests on the GSM that involve actually making or receiving calls. |
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| 16:56.47 | lindi- | mwester: hrm |
| 16:56.56 | mwester | But perhaps they do, and they simply don't think in terms of using user-space stuff. |
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| 16:58.09 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: but now i have a reproducible pattern without explanation and i'm completely lost :( |
| 16:59.07 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e179035187.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:59.14 | PaulFertser_ | And even exact semantics of that fucking push-button are unknown... |
| 16:59.31 | mwester | PaulFertser_: the semantics are on the mailing list archives. |
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| 17:02.27 | vanous123 | mwester: sms can be sent free from internet |
| 17:02.43 | PaulFertser_ | vanous123: but not in an automated manner mostly |
| 17:03.16 | orzo | why not an automated manner? |
| 17:03.17 | auge | bye |
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| 17:03.28 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: i have a script to send SMS automatically via my provider |
| 17:03.38 | PaulFertser_ | orzo: at least our operators have a CAPTCHA :( |
| 17:03.44 | vanous123 | PaulFertser_: sounds silly to debug on a phone and not to have some flat rate plans for that... |
| 17:04.09 | orzo | not att, heh. They just have a plain email gateway |
| 17:04.54 | mwester | vanous123: T-Mobile pre-paid charges 10 cents for incoming SMS regardless of origin. |
| 17:05.01 | vanous123 | is thinking if there would be a way to setup one phone with cheap sms for those testing purposes |
| 17:05.10 | vanous123 | incoming? |
| 17:05.20 | SpeedEvil | offers a host USB port. |
| 17:05.20 | vanous123 | are you kidding? |
| 17:05.20 | vanous123 | what country do you live in? |
| 17:05.20 | mwester | nope. |
| 17:05.22 | mwester | US |
| 17:05.27 | SpeedEvil | In some backwards places, you get charged for incoming. |
| 17:06.05 | vanous123 | hmm |
| 17:06.07 | vanous123 | ok |
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| 17:10.27 | vanous123 | so automated sms sending would not really solve it, the trouble is receiving... |
| 17:15.21 | orzo | att charges for incoming to, but you can purchance unlimited |
| 17:15.27 | orzo | purchase |
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| 17:15.50 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: any other ideas? Am i doing something completely wrong here? |
| 17:17.00 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: i don't unfortunately have much hw knowledge here |
| 17:17.41 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: but if you restart calypso after echo 1 > flowcontrolled but before suspend can you then wake it from suspend with another restart? |
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| 17:20.30 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: as expected, it refuses to suspend, because level interrupt is still there |
| 17:20.37 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: good |
| 17:20.55 | eolson | fyi: How To Send Email To Any Cell Phone (for Free) (sms gateways): http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/email-to-sms/ |
| 17:21.15 | SpeedEvil | Those typically have problems. |
| 17:21.28 | SpeedEvil | You can't - as you'd like to - send a SMS every minute for a few hours. |
| 17:21.49 | SpeedEvil | typically anyway. |
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| 17:22.41 | eolson | ah, too bad |
| 17:24.15 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: if i do echo 1 > flowcontrolled; (assert/deassert); echo 0 > flowcontrolled; echo 1 > flowcontrolled; echo mem > /sys/power/state; (assert/deassert) i resume every time |
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| 17:27.46 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: there's certainly some timing issue involved. if i do echo 0 > flowcontrolled; (wait 1 sec) echo 1 > flowcontrolled; (wait 1 sec) echo mem > /sys/power/state; (assert/deassert) i resume every time as well |
| 17:28.15 | lindi- | PaulFertser_: interesting |
| 17:29.19 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: and now i resume every time even if i do without any delays: echo 0 > flowcontrolled ; echo mem > /sys/power/state ; echo 1 > flowcontrolled |
| 17:29.23 | PaulFertser_ | lindi-: i'm freaking out :( |
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| 17:31.01 | PaulFertser_ | (this latest result when i can resume every time is actually what i expected from the beginning) |
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| 17:33.24 | PaulFertser_ | And now i don't get it again :-/ oh my |
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| 17:34.06 | PaulFertser_ | That's bad karma because of my anger |
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| 17:39.27 | PaulFertser_ | This one seem to work reliably: for i in `seq 50`; do echo 0 > flowcontrolled ; echo mem > /sys/power/state ; echo 1 > flowcontrolled ; sleep 0.2 ; done |
| 17:40.17 | PaulFertser_ | More reliably, but not entirely reliably |
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| 17:44.14 | PaulFertser_ | But notice how it unsuspends even if it was echo 0 > flowcontrolled before suspending! |
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| 17:47.07 | PaulFertser_ | Yes, with echo 0 >flowcontrolled and then suspending in cycle (no more manipulations done) it wakes up every second time. |
| 17:48.54 | PaulFertser_ | mwester: now, can you explain _that_ ? ;) |
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| 18:14.08 | gromgull | hi all |
| 18:14.33 | gromgull | Will kernel 2.6.28 work with the normal bootloader, or do I need the new one? |
| 18:15.24 | gromgull | i.e. do I need Qi, or does it work with new uboots? |
| 18:15.35 | henk | you should use qi anyway :) |
| 18:15.55 | henk | uboot is deprecated. you are talking about freerunner, right? |
| 18:16.53 | max_posedon | gromgull, u-boot is ok. |
| 18:17.04 | gromgull | yep - it's a freerunner |
| 18:17.18 | gromgull | and qi does everything I need nowadays? late last year it still lacked some features |
| 18:17.47 | Karrde | For me, qi causes either WSoD or black and white screen |
| 18:17.55 | Karrde | uboot works fine |
| 18:18.00 | max_posedon | as for me, while u-boot is works, I don't want to change in., |
| 18:18.03 | max_posedon | *it |
| 18:18.17 | PaulFertser_ | Karrde: qi causes WSoD? No way, Qi doesn't even touch Glamo! |
| 18:18.22 | *** join/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74) |
| 18:18.27 | Karrde | PaulFertser_: tell it to my FR |
| 18:18.53 | gromgull | oh well - what's the double level of firmware for... i'll try qi |
| 18:18.55 | PaulFertser_ | Karrde: Qi doesn't touch glamo, Qi doesn't touch backlight. |
| 18:19.21 | PaulFertser_ | gromgull: what features did Qi lack late last year? |
| 18:19.30 | gromgull | i forget |
| 18:19.31 | *** join/#openmoko tjikkun (n=tjikkun@195-240-122-237.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 18:19.40 | gromgull | it's just something I thought I read |
| 18:19.45 | Karrde | PaulFertser_: Well, if I use Qi, I have either black and white screen or WSoD after resume |
| 18:19.55 | Karrde | PaulFertser_: no such problem with u-boot |
| 18:20.01 | PaulFertser_ | Karrde: so, you boot fine but can't resume? |
| 18:21.13 | Karrde | PaulFertser_: with uboot I can usually resume |
| 18:21.24 | *** join/#openmoko edgar83 (n=christop@gtng-4d08aa16.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:21.38 | PaulFertser_ | Karrde: can you boot with Qi or not (not talking about suspend/resume here) |
| 18:21.54 | Karrde | PaulFertser_: I can boot |
| 18:22.31 | AntonTakk | last i read the qi page it did mention a bug where qi doesn't like to resume |
| 18:23.16 | PaulFertser_ | AntonTakk: i use Qi from early December and have no problems with resume because of Qi. |
| 18:23.40 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host24-213-dynamic.30-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:23.50 | AntonTakk | just saying what the qi page said |
| 18:23.53 | *** join/#openmoko kraut`1 (n=kraut@e181105083.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:24.12 | PaulFertser_ | AntonTakk: just saying what i really experienced on a real device. |
| 18:26.17 | kd8ikt | lol check this out http://sourceforge.net/projects/gps-tron/ |
| 18:28.21 | *** join/#openmoko alx} (n=alx}--@79.93.12.10) |
| 18:29.29 | *** join/#openmoko deniska[ru] (n=denis@ppp91-77-254-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 18:29.46 | deniska[ru] | hi ^_^ |
| 18:30.38 | deniska[ru] | I'm trying to set up emulator using this instruction: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU |
| 18:31.28 | deniska[ru] | I compiled qemu, successfully ran download.sh |
| 18:31.42 | deniska[ru] | but flash.sh doesn't work >_< |
| 18:33.05 | max_posedon | Does you use MokoMakefile? |
| 18:33.37 | gromgull | now I remember - qi doesn't have dfu support |
| 18:33.58 | max_posedon | gromgull, you don't need it |
| 18:34.12 | gromgull | i know - i can get it from nord... nand or whatever it's called |
| 18:34.13 | max_posedon | nor uboot are always on neo. |
| 18:34.29 | gromgull | exactly :) |
| 18:38.22 | *** part/#openmoko deniska[ru] (n=denis@ppp91-77-254-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 18:39.23 | *** join/#openmoko deniska[ru] (n=denis@ppp91-77-254-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
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| 18:47.20 | gromgull | Hmmm - no usb networking with andy-tracking kernel? |
| 18:47.37 | PaulFertser_ | gromgull: works for me |
| 18:47.42 | gromgull | ok |
| 18:47.45 | gromgull | then it's my bad |
| 18:48.36 | PaulFertser_ | gromgull: but the latest Qi has an interesting feature to read usb MAC from "factory" partition. It's possible that something was broken because of that. |
| 18:48.52 | PaulFertser_ | gromgull: and that's a know issue that FSO and SHR don't have usb networking on first boot. |
| 18:49.19 | gromgull | ok - thanks |
| 18:51.24 | *** join/#openmoko bpl (n=blarsen@206-248-181-220.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 18:51.28 | *** join/#openmoko janrikard (n=janrikar@c-a5c0e455.25-93-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 18:51.57 | gromgull | Hmm - the host machine still detects a RNDIS/ethernet device, but usb0 wont come up... |
| 18:52.17 | PaulFertser_ | gromgull: you can try to type on FR's terminal: ifdown usb0; ifup usb0 |
| 18:54.43 | *** join/#openmoko kirun (n=kirun@78-86-154-194.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
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| 19:03.34 | *** part/#openmoko dTx (n=user@ip-129-15-127-253.fennfwsm.ou.edu) |
| 19:04.48 | *** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74) |
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| 19:12.20 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * r3777ae763c60 10/ChangeLog: release as 0.2.0 |
| 19:14.04 | *** join/#openmoko DieMumiee (n=DieMumie@W168e.w.pppool.de) |
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| 19:42.02 | |Marco| | gromgull: I found that adding usb0 to the line containing "auto lo" in interfaces in /etc/network/ to help |
| 19:42.34 | gromgull | [Marco]: on the moko |
| 19:42.35 | gromgull | ? |
| 19:42.38 | |Marco| | mm |
| 19:42.40 | |Marco| | correct |
| 19:43.53 | |Marco| | some change removes "usb0" from interfaces file, I don't know why |
| 19:47.36 | *** join/#openmoko rainglasz (n=rainglas@p4FC4B080.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:50.45 | *** join/#openmoko peppertarts (n=peter@strapp.plus.com) |
| 20:00.32 | subfusc | @weather Oslo, Norway |
| 20:00.46 | *** join/#openmoko alfatangoxt (n=michele@host149-200-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:02.22 | gromgull | [Marco]: i thought i'll try flashing FSO for now... i'll try later :) |
| 20:04.37 | *** join/#openmoko rooly1 (n=rooly@adsl-227-0-75.jan.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:06.14 | peppertarts | Hey all, just to let you know I carried out the buzz fix this evening. And it works beautifully! No more buzz! |
| 20:06.22 | peppertarts | Some pics: |
| 20:06.23 | peppertarts | http://www.strapp.co.uk/files/DSC01231.JPG |
| 20:06.31 | peppertarts | http://www.strapp.co.uk/files/DSC01240.JPG |
| 20:06.37 | peppertarts | http://www.strapp.co.uk/files/DSC01262.JPG |
| 20:07.16 | peppertarts | Getting that TINY resistor straight is by far the most difficult part |
| 20:07.46 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@net203-187-146.mclink.it) |
| 20:10.24 | DocScrutinizer | [2009-02-06 17:18:36] <PaulFertser_> Now, i manually assert the testpoint that powers the modem off. When i deassert, i see "AT-Command Interpreter ready" every time. |
| 20:10.57 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, just reading the log, seems there's some problems with interrupt from calypso? ;-) |
| 20:11.00 | PaulFertser_ | DocScrutinizer: is it really you or a ghost? Can i believe my eyes? :) Hey, Joerg! I missed you a lot :) |
| 20:11.25 | PaulFertser_ | No jokes, seriously |
| 20:11.58 | PaulFertser_ | I even lost all motivation to further verify "the bass fix". |
| 20:14.12 | DocScrutinizer | [2009-02-06 17:24:30] <mwester> No, VCC for the GSM comes from the battery. [jOERG] NOPE |
| 20:26.39 | *** join/#openmoko rainglasz (n=rainglas@p4FC4B080.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:26.52 | *** join/#openmoko rzr (n=RzR@lav35-1-82-236-136-171.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:37.13 | *** join/#openmoko mick_laptop (n=mweiss@clamwin/admin/mickhome) |
| 20:37.54 | mick_laptop | ok, this might sound crazy - but does anyone know how to get phone calls working w/ the fat and dirty distro? |
| 20:38.13 | mick_laptop | i can make a call and people can answer - just no sound goes through |
| 20:38.42 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=Deubeuli@AFontenayssB-151-1-48-149.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:41.03 | mick_laptop | another thing, i'm also trying to get the gps to work - i just get (under the GPS test) Fixes: 0 good ## fail ## total -- where ## is a number that keeps incrimenting |
| 20:41.13 | DocScrutinizer | mick_laptop: completely screwed gsmhandset.state? |
| 20:42.30 | mick_laptop | DocScrutinizer: and how would i fix it? |
| 20:42.32 | mick_laptop | :) |
| 20:43.12 | Dave | oy -_- |
| 20:43.42 | mick_laptop | hi Dave |
| 20:44.01 | DocScrutinizer | look at wiki, check the different gsmhandset.state you find in different distris, and compare them with diff |
| 20:45.12 | mick_laptop | as for the inability to hear someone on the other side of a phone call - any ideas w/ regards to that? |
| 20:45.26 | mick_laptop | well, both sides don't hear one another |
| 20:46.15 | PaulFertser_ | mick_laptop: your "hearing" problem sounds like a bad state file, yes |
| 20:46.37 | mick_laptop | ah |
| 20:47.01 | mick_laptop | that would mess up both gps and gsm |
| 20:47.07 | *** join/#openmoko tomer (n=tomer@89-138-154-130.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 20:47.14 | mick_laptop | didn't know that |
| 20:47.31 | *** part/#openmoko christooss (n=christoo@BSN-143-149-78.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 20:49.05 | PaulFertser_ | mick_laptop: no, gps can't be messed by alsa states files |
| 20:49.29 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-088-065-121-116.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:51.29 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.93.28) |
| 20:51.43 | mick_laptop | then i misunderstood - thanks for clarifying |
| 20:51.55 | mick_laptop | troubleshooting both things at once |
| 20:52.35 | *** part/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@85.93.174.26) |
| 20:52.48 | orzo | i want a program to collect gps coordinates for cell ids |
| 20:52.56 | orzo | has someone written that already? |
| 20:53.16 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-24-6-167-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:53.45 | lindi- | orzo: should be quite easy to write fortunately |
| 20:55.30 | orzo | i'm going to save a polygon for each seen cellid. Every new gps coordinate will be discarded if its internal to the cell id's polygon, otherwise it becomes a new vertex and internal vertices are discarded |
| 20:56.27 | *** join/#openmoko root_at (n=Anon@194.208.239.170) |
| 20:56.53 | orzo | then i'll use that as an aproximate gps when the receiver is powered off |
| 20:57.32 | *** join/#openmoko rob79 (n=rob@f054011081.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:58.33 | shellevil | IDs are not globally unique |
| 20:58.45 | orzo | so if i need to input a location into say, a point-of-purcase bank book program, i can at least display a map or make a dropdown for selecting a location of sale if the gps is off |
| 20:58.46 | shellevil | If you're thinking of making this as more than a toy |
| 20:59.27 | shellevil | Also - there are portable GSM cells used for events |
| 20:59.32 | orzo | what about ID + providor? |
| 20:59.45 | shellevil | not unique over country |
| 20:59.50 | shellevil | countries |
| 20:59.52 | shellevil | AIUI |
| 21:00.20 | shellevil | As I understand it they won't repeat within 40Km or some relatively small limit |
| 21:00.36 | *** join/#openmoko emsyr (n=emsyr@ppp079166063024.dsl.hol.gr) |
| 21:00.43 | orzo | oh |
| 21:00.54 | orzo | i thought it'd at least pin point the city im in |
| 21:01.13 | shellevil | You can often pickup multiple cells |
| 21:01.21 | shellevil | which will help there. |
| 21:02.08 | shellevil | Or a->b->c->d->e->a->f->g - if a is duplicated and you poll even slowly you can pick that up |
| 21:02.19 | shellevil | (that a is duplicate) |
| 21:02.55 | orzo | by duplicate, you mean a different cell with the same id? |
| 21:03.00 | shellevil | This is from vague recollections, you may want to do some research |
| 21:03.01 | shellevil | yes |
| 21:04.22 | *** join/#openmoko toshikondo (n=toshi@c-180-198-27.bi.dial.de.ignite.net) |
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| 21:04.36 | orzo | darn, i was hoping just to keep convex polygons |
| 21:05.34 | orzo | maybe i should save off transition points |
| 21:07.28 | *** join/#openmoko vininim (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim) |
| 21:07.31 | orzo | i could assume cells are not overlapping or adjacent until i actually see with gps on a transition from one cell to the other |
| 21:08.10 | Dave | orzo! |
| 21:08.15 | orzo | dave |
| 21:08.21 | orzo | hows it goin |
| 21:08.30 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@adsl-ull-142-8.49-151.net24.it) |
| 21:08.39 | Dave | eh, slow :P |
| 21:08.42 | orzo | do you use debian on your phone, dave? |
| 21:08.59 | Dave | Nope |
| 21:09.18 | orzo | i use a bluetooth keyboard that requires fake hid emulation on top of some funky serial bluetooth interface |
| 21:09.35 | Dave | sounds about right |
| 21:09.41 | orzo | i write a daemon to do it for me so i dont have to use the funky old obsoleted hidd program |
| 21:09.53 | orzo | wrote |
| 21:10.07 | orzo | well its not about right, i think nother keyboards are more plug and play with modern bluez |
| 21:10.25 | orzo | they implement some sort of bluetooth hid service |
| 21:10.44 | *** join/#openmoko samgee (n=samgee@74.47-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 21:10.49 | orzo | the hidd program is deprecated in latest bluez releases |
| 21:10.57 | shellevil | orz: simply geohash them. |
| 21:11.02 | orzo | they've discontinued support for this fake hid emulation stuff |
| 21:14.02 | orzo | does anybody else use fake hid? It's called "J-Three" by the hidd program and that's how it looks in /proc/bus/input/devices |
| 21:16.05 | *** join/#openmoko leavittx (n=leavittx@87.237.113.11) |
| 21:16.21 | orzo | geohash what, shellevil ? Every time i see a gps coordinate, geohash that ? |
| 21:17.47 | orzo | i'll have tons of observed locations i figure |
| 21:18.44 | orzo | oh i see |
| 21:18.53 | shellevil | orz: something like store the first location you find it in, and if you see it again in a different 30Km grid-square centred on that position, call it a new poly |
| 21:20.01 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkman (i=Zorkman@dD576909C.access.telenet.be) |
| 21:20.55 | *** part/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@Ra316.r.pppool.de) |
| 21:22.18 | orzo | ok |
| 21:26.21 | Dave | Are you doing two separate things, orzo? :P |
| 21:28.07 | orzo | im not doing anything atm, but i have a lot to od |
| 21:28.11 | orzo | heh |
| 21:28.27 | orzo | my debian install is becoming more slick |
| 21:28.58 | orzo | bt keyboard, bt networking, gps, phone receiving/sending with addressbook lookup, ... |
| 21:29.27 | orzo | debian now works better than qtextended for me |
| 21:29.32 | orzo | except for text messages |
| 21:30.00 | Dave | :) |
| 21:30.08 | Dave | sweet |
| 21:30.47 | orzo | i'd like a bankbook program for keeping track of my account |
| 21:30.57 | orzo | for card purchaces |
| 21:31.35 | orzo | that'd automatically reconcile with the bank and also use position data to try and clasify purchases for seeing intersting budget data |
| 21:32.40 | orzo | i wanted ot to just grab gps position when i enter a purchase, but gps uses too much battery and it wont always be on and takes too long to get a fix from the off position |
| 21:33.26 | orzo | also, i have a usb wifi adapter. I need to build a kernel to make that work because mwester didn't build the right kernel module |
| 21:33.59 | orzo | it'll zd1211rw |
| 21:34.41 | orzo | i'm also thinking of setting up runlevels for battery mode |
| 21:35.01 | orzo | if battery is high and fast charge is enabled, i might a well turn on bluetooth and gps |
| 21:37.24 | orzo | i use a python dbus program for doing bluetooth networking and that program just does some stuff to make the connection and then suspends itself while the connection is on. For some reason, if i let the program quit, i guess dbus objects are destroyed and the daemon brings down the network connection |
| 21:38.12 | orzo | It doesnt make a lot of sense to me to have to have that process alive (but suspended) |
| 21:38.25 | orzo | is that a bug? |
| 21:38.43 | orzo | or a symptom of python/dbus rathr than say C++/dbus or something |
| 21:39.28 | orzo | this is bluez's dbus interface i refer to, not frameworkd |
| 21:41.24 | orzo | X was flaky with my keyboard, so my keyboard driver daemon actually keeps the fake hid device always so that the OS doesnt know its being unplugged and replugged. That daemon also suspends itself when the keyboard isnt around (I send SIGCONT to tell it to probe for the keyboard) |
| 21:41.59 | Dave | kinky :D |
| 21:42.52 | *** join/#openmoko e-Flex (n=e@c83-253-111-81.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 21:44.13 | orzo | my xrandr doesn't work with xorg fbdev driver. I believe it worked in 2007.2 with kdrive or something. It'd be nice to have but debian's kdrive derivative apparently is not compiled with tslib support so the touch screen wont work |
| 21:44.53 | rooly | my wishlist: |
| 21:46.22 | rooly | a dock for the OM, with mouse, keyboard, 4 usb slots (or 6 and no ps2's), a 500mA charger, and DisplayPort compiled into the kernel so as to forward X to a larger apparatus |
| 21:46.42 | *** part/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-24-6-167-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:47.15 | Dave | Rooly! |
| 21:47.15 | orzo | rooly, why dont you get an Eee Pc with a usb gsm modem? |
| 21:47.29 | Dave | rooly (basically, a beagleboard?) :p |
| 21:47.46 | Dave | or basically, just buy an asus ;p |
| 21:47.58 | orzo | ya |
| 21:49.00 | *** join/#openmoko booxter (n=booxter@night02.sml.by) |
| 21:49.03 | orzo | i'd like to put battery charging under software control |
| 21:49.14 | orzo | but when i plug in a battery it draws some power regardless |
| 21:49.28 | orzo | an external battery pack i mean |
| 21:49.44 | orzo | i'd like to have something small i can just leave plugged in |
| 21:49.51 | orzo | to augment the battery |
| 21:50.26 | orzo | the phone will use some sort of energy conserving algorithm for charging or not charging from its external battery |
| 21:51.51 | orzo | maybe when it sees its sysfs battery voltage indicator drop below a certain level, it will activate fast charge |
| 21:52.06 | rooly | no, i want a dock |
| 21:52.15 | rooly | so's i can take my phone with me |
| 21:52.26 | orzo | but not yoru doc? |
| 21:52.42 | *** part/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@adsl-227-0-75.jan.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:52.43 | orzo | wouldnt an asus eee pc work as a doc for you? |
| 22:00.36 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:00.39 | shellevil | covers HellDragon in a 3.48mm layer of Brie. |
| 22:01.26 | Dave | :D |
| 22:01.42 | Dave | orzo: batterypack! |
| 22:01.43 | Dave | :D |
| 22:02.21 | *** join/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@adsl-227-0-75.jan.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:02.31 | rooly | sorry about that |
| 22:02.36 | orzo | jerk |
| 22:02.39 | orzo | j/k |
| 22:03.03 | orzo | i have a great idea |
| 22:03.14 | orzo | XGGI instead of Xorg fbdev or kdrive |
| 22:03.48 | Dave | haha |
| 22:04.47 | orzo | i used to have cvs access to ggi |
| 22:05.06 | orzo | i rewrote their checkmode interface |
| 22:05.29 | orzo | they're a cool bunch and deserve more of me than they get |
| 22:05.32 | orzo | heh |
| 22:06.48 | Dave | hah |
| 22:07.41 | rooly | orzo, you seem rather well versed...where should i know you from |
| 22:07.55 | Dave | :o |
| 22:08.04 | orzo | heh |
| 22:08.16 | orzo | i dont know, did you work on ggi? |
| 22:08.27 | *** join/#openmoko ace_ (n=ace@ns1.nologin.org) |
| 22:08.34 | rooly | nope, i guess i'm asking, what foss projects have you worked on |
| 22:08.40 | orzo | oh |
| 22:08.47 | orzo | ggi, dillo |
| 22:08.56 | orzo | im not sure anything else is much prominent |
| 22:09.03 | rooly | try me |
| 22:09.30 | *** join/#openmoko d-b (n=alias@203-214-145-230.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:09.36 | eolson | cheers for dillo |
| 22:09.41 | Dave | laughs |
| 22:09.46 | orzo | i mean prominent enough to stand out in my brain. I did write some scheme related projects |
| 22:10.03 | Dave | neat. |
| 22:10.07 | orzo | i do haskell stuff and talk about it in #haskell sometimes |
| 22:10.08 | rooly | is annoyed at dillo...it doesn't load log-in prompt websites properly |
| 22:10.12 | Dave | high-fives orzo |
| 22:10.23 | Dave | rooly, heh yeah |
| 22:10.34 | orzo | well tehy didnt take my patch |
| 22:10.41 | rooly | my favorite red-light-district websites are secondary log-in prompted |
| 22:10.46 | orzo | they wanted me to rework it in some way but it didnt make enough sense to me to bother |
| 22:10.54 | Dave | haha |
| 22:11.02 | rooly | i hear the dillo guys are tools |
| 22:11.07 | Dave | hahaha |
| 22:11.10 | orzo | ya i didnt like dillo guys |
| 22:11.16 | orzo | thats why im so fond of the ggi guys |
| 22:11.26 | orzo | i went to ggi right after dillo |
| 22:11.31 | eolson | yeah, have to use midori for login websites |
| 22:11.51 | rooly | can't seem to get midori |
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| 22:11.58 | rooly | i think i'm gonna have to do a full reinstall |
| 22:12.10 | rooly | whats the latest and greatest distro |
| 22:12.11 | orzo | i installed firefox on my phone but its not good heh |
| 22:12.16 | rooly | thats not asu |
| 22:12.20 | rooly | but still works |
| 22:12.28 | orzo | well i like debian |
| 22:12.33 | Dave | SHR? |
| 22:12.39 | rooly | as a phone i suppose |
| 22:12.48 | eolson | will have to upgrade to fso5 soon, running fso4 atm. |
| 22:12.49 | Dave | orzo, haha yeah it's not :P |
| 22:12.53 | Dave | rooly, nothing? :) |
| 22:13.04 | rooly | well, partially as a phone then |
| 22:13.06 | Dave | eolson, might want to hold off on that for a few more days :) |
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| 22:13.30 | orzo | well i have everything but text messages in debian |
| 22:13.31 | eolson | :) ah, thanks for the tip. |
| 22:13.44 | Dave | things are getting fixed up |
| 22:13.48 | eolson | I figured i'd give them a few days, maybe a week will be good |
| 22:13.58 | Dave | they released, but things exploded or were missing |
| 22:14.13 | Dave | I'm sure in a day or two most of that all will be straightened out though :) |
| 22:14.24 | orzo | the phone UI i use is lindi-'s and its nothing very fancy, but it works and you can hack on it easy as its just a little python file |
| 22:14.36 | Dave | yes orzo :) |
| 22:14.36 | eolson | has figured out never to take vacation after releasing software -- those are the busiest days. |
| 22:14.45 | Dave | haha yeah |
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| 22:14.53 | Dave | or good days for vacation (leaving the country) |
| 22:14.55 | Dave | if you're hiding :D |
| 22:15.03 | Dave | from the impending doom of bugreports and failures |
| 22:15.03 | Dave | :D |
| 22:15.05 | eolson | right, or quitting :) |
| 22:15.08 | Dave | :P |
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| 22:15.36 | lindi- | orzo: i'm planning to reorganize it a bit so that the logic and UI part are separate classes |
| 22:15.44 | lindi- | orzo: to make hacking even easier :) |
| 22:15.49 | Dave | woohoo |
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| 22:41.31 | rooly | has gotten good results from 2007.2/11 |
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| 22:45.40 | Dave | rooly, yes! :) |
| 22:51.31 | orzo | you use 2007.2, Dave? |
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| 22:53.59 | Elleo | I just can't seem to get GPS working on SHR :/ |
| 22:54.12 | Elleo | I have the correct time, and time zone set |
| 22:54.26 | Elleo | if I use openmoko-agpsui I get a fix in a couple of minutes |
| 22:54.38 | Elleo | but never with the SHR stuff :/ |
| 22:54.53 | Elleo | I spent hours lost in brussels because of this :P |
| 22:55.53 | mwester | you tried to actually ***USE*** the freerunner for something it was designed to do????!! |
| 22:56.11 | Dave | :DD |
| 22:56.16 | orzo | heh |
| 22:56.29 | mwester | Ah, hope... the last thing to die ;) |
| 22:56.30 | orzo | ive been pointed the wrong way by a TomTom more than once |
| 22:56.51 | orzo | anyway, i use GPS on my neo1973 with no problem so far |
| 22:57.04 | orzo | but i've not actually needed it |
| 22:57.10 | Elleo | it also seems to hate being in a foreign country |
| 22:57.12 | mwester | hehe - my Garmin still insists that the best way out of my neighborhood is to drive over a dirt mound. |
| 22:57.20 | Elleo | anything depending on the sim card doesn't work |
| 22:57.30 | Elleo | contacts, messages, etc. |
| 22:57.36 | Elleo | I can make phone calls though |
| 22:57.48 | orzo | you use a gta02 right? |
| 22:57.51 | Elleo | yep |
| 22:58.09 | shellevil | I've used it with tangogps to nav |
| 22:58.09 | Elleo | there's nothing wrong with the GPS hardware wise |
| 22:58.14 | shellevil | worked fine. |
| 22:58.18 | shellevil | (gta01) |
| 22:58.21 | Elleo | it's just the new SHR stuff that doesn't work at all for me |
| 22:58.31 | orzo | the gsm firmware can be flashed with a program called fluid |
| 22:58.32 | max_posedon | Elleo, pure, but... reboot |
| 22:58.34 | Elleo | if I installed gpsd and had it talk to the hardware directly it'd be fine |
| 22:58.38 | orzo | maybe tehres some update for you |
| 22:58.45 | max_posedon | sometimes it help with latest SHR |
| 22:58.58 | Elleo | max_posedon: I've rebooted numerous times |
| 22:59.07 | orzo | oh |
| 22:59.19 | orzo | i use frameworkd on debian but i use gpsd for gps |
| 22:59.27 | max_posedon | Elleo, do you installed it on microSD? |
| 22:59.30 | Elleo | yeah, I'm use fso-gps |
| 22:59.34 | Elleo | max_posedon: nope, nand |
| 22:59.37 | orzo | gta01 has different gps hardware |
| 22:59.46 | max_posedon | hm... Elleo it works for me. |
| 22:59.52 | max_posedon | (sometimes) |
| 22:59.55 | Elleo | heh |
| 23:00.22 | max_posedon | but latest image isn't a good enough anyway |
| 23:00.57 | Elleo | oh well, I should get some sleep |
| 23:01.12 | Elleo | need to be up earlier to give me time to get lost ;) |
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