IRC log for #openmoko on 20090131

`00:00.20`	`PaulFertser`	`ronny: show me the place in GPL that proves that "local" procedures are different from "remote".`
`00:01.26`	`catsup`	`that's not the question...`
`00:01.47`	`*** part/#openmoko badcloud (i=536c951b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b3ad8cf1a6b53a72)`
`00:01.57`	`PaulFertser`	`catsup: what is?`
`00:02.03`	`catsup`	`the question is whether a program A that makes remote calls to a program B is, in copyright law, a "derivative work" of B`
`00:02.15`	`ronny`	`PaulFertser: actually the gpl faq even tells to use ipc with different processes to allow extensions/plugins that are non-gpl`
`00:02.21`	`PaulFertser`	`catsup: i think remote calls are no different to local.`
`00:02.35`	`ronny`	`PaulFertser: same process vs ipc`
`00:02.39`	`catsup`	`if not, then regardless of the intent of the GPL, there is no copyright claim on the part of the authors of B against the publishers of A`
`00:02.43`	`PaulFertser`	`ronny: gpl faq is not the GPL itself. It doesn't count.`
`00:02.48`	`ronny`	`well`
`00:03.46`	`ronny`	`in case of doubt i say fuck the gpl - its ipc, they'll never stand that one in a actual case`
`00:04.12`	`PaulFertser`	`ronny: why are you so sure? Can you prove that claim with the license text?`
`00:04.40`	`catsup`	`ronny, the courts don't care about "ipc"; if your program lets you sell the functionality provided by authors of another program, the courts might listen to those authors`
`00:05.11`	`PaulFertser`	`Exactly`
`00:05.12`	`ronny`	`catsup: thats where the http example comes in`
`00:05.15`	`catsup`	`from the perspective of the user, if you take someone else's program and provide a UI on top of it, what does it matter what the implementation is? it looks like a derivative work doesn't it?`
`00:06.11`	`ronny`	`also the author will actually have to sue me`
`00:06.15`	`catsup`	`anyway the last i heard the legal question was undecided`
`00:07.27`	`catsup`	`(however it was quite a long time ago that i read that)`
`00:07.40`	`ronny`	`i do things like linking gpl3'd into gpl2only apps if the authors say they are ok with me doing that`
`00:07.55`	`catsup`	`if you are writing free software then fuck the law`
`00:08.09`	`catsup`	`do whatever makes the code work`
`00:08.22`	`PaulFertser`	`If you've got the author's permit to relicense their work, then it's ok.`
`00:08.35`	`ronny`	`no relicense`
`00:08.42`	`ronny`	`just a "wont sue ya"`
`00:08.59`	`ronny`	`well, for the rest i dont care`
`00:09.11`	`ronny`	`the whole gpl versioning thing is a big mess up`
`00:09.28`	`*** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74)`
`00:09.37`	`ronny`	`cause some people just dont want to trust the FSF`
`00:09.42`	`catsup`	`yep`
`00:10.09`	`catsup`	`it's not like the FSF could get away with radically changing anything, anyway`
`00:10.38`	`ronny`	`and now we have things like gpl2only apps that have so many copyright holders that make it basically impossible to "fix" it`
`00:10.45`	`catsup`	`like they have a non-profit charter they are legally required to follow`
`00:11.12`	`ronny`	`and gpl3 is just incompatible to gpl2`
`00:11.41`	`*** join/#openmoko badcloud (i=536c951b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0e51572a5d82bc9b)`
`00:11.53`	`ronny`	`from my point of view every new version of gpl is the fsf taking a bigger dump in front of my door`
`00:12.05`	`ronny`	`then they set it on fire and ring the doorbell`
`00:12.11`	`catsup`	`haha`
`00:12.13`	`catsup`	`naw`
`00:12.36`	`badcloud`	`has anyone managed to squeeze more than three quarter of a day's usage out of the FR using SHR+Andy Testing?`
`00:12.40`	`catsup`	`the gpl won't work forever`
`00:12.40`	`ronny`	`seriously - sometimes i need to combine gpl2only and gpl3only`
`00:12.42`	`catsup`	`it needs ot be updated`
`00:13.20`	`ronny`	`and i'll be fscking happy once the first people fire up gpl4only`
`00:14.13`	`ronny`	`casue im 100% sure 2 months later i'll have to combine gpl2only, gpl3only and gpl4only`
`00:14.24`	`ronny`	`and of course all of them are incompatible`
`00:15.32`	`ronny`	`hmm, this causes me so much hate and pain`
`00:15.54`	`catsup`	`heh`
`00:16.04`	`badcloud`	`are there any users in the house today??`
`00:16.51`	`ronny`	`catsup: all i can do is get a "wont sue ya" from the authors, then proceed`
`00:16.55`	`jonsmith1982`	`r`
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`00:17.44`	`badcloud`	`sigh`
`00:17.46`	`catsup`	`that constitutes a license`
`00:17.54`	`catsup`	`anyway nobody's going to sue you`
`00:17.57`	`catsup`	`just ignore it`
`00:18.07`	`*** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@166.129.70.187)`
`00:18.23`	`catsup`	`don't even read the licenses`
`00:18.27`	`catsup`	`what a waste of time`
`00:19.32`	`ronny`	`hmm, cant do that`
`00:19.46`	`ronny`	`the world is full of too many people that just need a reason`
`00:21.30`	`Dave`	`ronny!`
`00:21.36`	`Dave`	`hei badcloud`
`00:22.28`	`*** join/#openmoko ShellEvil (n=jkffjkjf@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)`
`00:22.30`	`badcloud`	`hey, Daveman`
`00:22.43`	`badcloud`	`what's up?`
`00:23.01`	`badcloud`	`eller, hva er opp ;)?`
`00:23.02`	`ronny`	`yo Dave`
`00:23.09`	`Dave`	`:P`
`00:23.15`	`Dave`	`not much`
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`00:24.13`	`Dave`	`throws vala at ronny`
`00:24.14`	`badcloud`	`remind me, which kernel+distro are you reviewing?`
`00:24.25`	`ronny`	`Dave: why that?`
`00:27.54`	`badcloud`	`dead silence`
`00:29.09`	`*** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i577B6D96.versanet.de)`
`00:29.10`	`*** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD43BE1.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`00:29.13`	`mwester`	`badcloud: hardly anyone here actually uses the phone. We are mostly here to exchange information on trying to get it to limp along.`
`00:29.39`	`badcloud`	`really?`
`00:29.41`	`badcloud`	`I use it`
`00:29.43`	`mwester`	`So there really aren't "users" here... the users long ago dumped the phones in the trash bin.`
`00:29.47`	`badcloud`	`it's quite the pain sometimes`
`00:29.49`	`ShellEvil`	`really`
`00:29.49`	`badcloud`	`but I use it`
`00:29.57`	`mwester`	`only us stubborn fools, and developers, are left here.`
`00:30.02`	`badcloud`	`so I'm the only one left?`
`00:30.08`	`badcloud`	`I'm still here, dammit`
`00:30.18`	`badcloud`	`never developed anything except a cold`
`00:30.34`	`mwester`	`If you're not a stubborn fool or a developer, then you are probably one of a very small handful of "users".`
`00:31.00`	`badcloud`	`this is quite the pessimistic chapter in open source history`
`00:31.09`	`mwester`	`No, it's actually quite a good time.`
`00:31.15`	`badcloud`	`really?`
`00:31.16`	`mwester`	`It's just that Om is quite depressing.`
`00:31.25`	`badcloud`	`I'd have expected more OM users`
`00:31.32`	`badcloud`	`supporting the dev team`
`00:31.36`	`ShellEvil`	`badcloud: some have expressed that opinion.`
`00:31.40`	`badcloud`	`by bitching about their bugs`
`00:31.42`	`ShellEvil`	`The problem goes two ways.`
`00:31.53`	`mwester`	`I've long asked Om where all their community developers went off to... they don't care.`
`00:31.53`	`badcloud`	`how so, Shell?`
`00:32.03`	`badcloud`	`ah, I c`
`00:32.10`	`ShellEvil`	`You don't encourage external development by doing various things OM has done.`
`00:32.43`	`badcloud`	`well, I've been running SHR and Andy for a week now`
`00:32.46`	`badcloud`	`pretty happy`
`00:32.56`	`ShellEvil`	`For example, changing the basis of the windowing stack without external notice that it was going to happen, barring announcements saying 'it'll be cool'.`
`00:32.56`	`badcloud`	`except for the occasional snag`
`00:33.02`	`badcloud`	`power issues too`
`00:33.32`	`ShellEvil`	`And not concentrating on fundamental issues that make it hard for joe-sixpack-developer to actually develop on the phone.`
`00:33.35`	`mwester`	`badcloud: That's outstanding. The only problem is that Om has changed the kernel in the past week, and now it won't even resume.`
`00:33.48`	`badcloud`	`god dammit`
`00:33.50`	`badcloud`	`why?`
`00:33.51`	`ronny`	`hmm`
`00:33.56`	`ShellEvil`	`(resume, ...)`
`00:34.20`	`*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-238-63.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)`
`00:34.29`	`Wonka`	`.oO( joe the plumber? )`
`00:34.32`	`ShellEvil`	`There seemed an impetus a bit back to do more with the community`
`00:34.39`	`ronny`	`the lack of pim/+sync is still keeping me on my other phone`
`00:34.41`	`Dave`	`Wonka :D`
`00:34.49`	`badcloud`	`only thing that's a bit weird is that the phone stops charging after so and so hours`
`00:34.53`	`badcloud`	`~12`
`00:34.54`	`apt`	`somebody said 12 was 1`
`00:34.56`	`ShellEvil`	`But at that time, most of them had wandered off I suspect, and wasn't really that interested in coming back.`
`00:35.16`	`Dave`	`Wester, I really wish sometimes you were a more dedicated blogger, as blasphemous as that sounds.`
`00:35.19`	`ShellEvil`	`So the attempts seem to have petered out somewhat for lack of respect.`
`00:35.36`	`Dave`	`either that or I should further subscribe to your newsletter...`
`00:35.42`	`ronny`	`hmm`
`00:35.51`	`ronny`	`om generally makes me unhappy these days`
`00:36.07`	`badcloud`	`ronny, I just use a uSD for backup and my calendar is a plain text file`
`00:36.18`	`ShellEvil`	`Also - concentrating on the 'easy' problem of hardware.`
`00:36.27`	`badcloud`	`works in a pinch`
`00:36.28`	`ShellEvil`	`When GTA01 is quite adequate as a basic phone.`
`00:36.39`	`ShellEvil`	`Even a fairly non-basic phone`
`00:36.43`	`ronny`	`i remember a few years back i asked why the heck a slow gtk instead of e - now they do it`
`00:36.57`	`ShellEvil`	`GTK is not particularly slow.`
`00:37.09`	`ShellEvil`	`It's slow if you expect transparency, animation, ...`
`00:37.32`	`ronny`	`cairo is a killer for any speed`
`00:37.47`	`ShellEvil`	`Consider that the GTA01 is basically equivalent to a pentium/150 or so, with a VGA screen.`
`00:37.48`	`Dave`	`:D`
`00:37.52`	`badcloud`	`well, I'd love to stay and rant, but I gotta get some shuteye`
`00:38.01`	`ShellEvil`	`There were quite adequate and fast UIs for those.`
`00:38.03`	`ShellEvil`	`WAve.`
`00:38.13`	`badcloud`	`proud to be part of such a small minority though`
`00:38.23`	`badcloud`	`we will prevail with this mess!!`
`00:38.44`	`badcloud`	`...won't we??`
`00:38.54`	`ShellEvil`	`Maybe.`
`00:39.01`	`ronny`	`probably wouldnt buy it again`
`00:39.18`	`ShellEvil`	`'we' needs a sufficient number of devs - either internal or external - to provide a functioning device.`
`00:39.31`	`badcloud`	`shitsa`
`00:39.49`	`badcloud`	`that's why opkg is crawling along?`
`00:39.53`	`badcloud`	`(.org)`
`00:40.29`	`badcloud`	`I was surprised`
`00:40.41`	`badcloud`	`there was one week with only two or so additions`
`00:41.18`	`badcloud`	`some of which were already included in the OM wiki (minimo to name one)`
`00:41.50`	`ronny`	`ShellEvil: i consider gtk as quite bloated compared to e`
`00:42.01`	`badcloud`	`ok, well`
`00:42.03`	`badcloud`	`night`
`00:42.25`	`ShellEvil`	`ronny: sure. that's moderately irrelevant though IMO. I've used gtk on a 150MHz P1, and it's not that slow.`
`00:43.08`	`ronny`	`ShellEvil: i prefer fast over "not that slow"`
`00:43.14`	`ShellEvil`	`Right.`
`00:43.38`	`ShellEvil`	`But have you actually compared like with like on comparable hardware?`
`00:43.40`	`ronny`	`performance "sins" love to pile up`
`00:45.01`	`*** join/#openmoko xcasex (n=rrg@71-197.lerstenen.t3.se)`
`00:45.02`	`ShellEvil`	`I find all the 'OMG - it's slow' arguments to be rather specious - given that I've used FF on the device, displaying X over USB, and it was completely fast, with no perceptible delays.`
`00:45.11`	`*** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@p5B1497A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`00:45.23`	`ShellEvil`	`And that I could have implemented the UI in FF on the desktop and had it adequately fast.`
`00:45.57`	`ShellEvil`	`(GTA01)`
`00:46.01`	`ronny`	`hmm`
`00:46.20`	`ronny`	`the ui is sluggish on my gta02`
`00:46.31`	`ShellEvil`	`Anyway - IMO - first you don't make it fast. First you make it WORK.`
`00:46.40`	`ShellEvil`	`With suspend, call handling, ...`
`00:46.48`	`ShellEvil`	`sighs.`
`00:47.11`	`Dave`	`:(`
`00:47.30`	`Dave`	`Quit furthering our freerunner induced depression, Speedevil :P`
`00:47.42`	`ShellEvil`	`Notice the hundreds of quite slow WinCE phones out there.`
`00:47.53`	`ShellEvil`	`They manage to sell despite not being 100% snappy`
`00:48.11`	`Dave`	`In fact, they are highly crappy :D`
`00:48.27`	`ronny`	`just cause stuff sells doesnt mean its good`
`00:49.26`	`Dave`	`Hell, look at our market :D`
`00:49.30`	`Dave`	`fucking idiots :D`
`00:50.53`	`ronny`	`anyway, i need pim sync since like 6 months now`
`00:50.59`	`ronny`	`before i cant use it as main device`
`00:51.04`	`Dave`	`assy :\`
`00:54.41`	`Dave`	`offers ronny one of his cookies`
`00:55.11`	`ronny`	`i'll just go to sleep now`
`00:55.22`	`Dave`	`:(`
`00:55.28`	`ronny`	`tomorow will be hellish lots of work`
`00:55.50`	`Dave`	`poor ronny`
`00:55.53`	`ronny`	`my task list is getting close to 100 items agaain`
`00:55.58`	`Dave`	`openmoko only makes his life worse :(`
`00:56.22`	`ShellEvil`	`places 'tear up task list' on ronnys task list.`
`00:56.33`	`Dave`	`quick, reorder!`
`00:56.45`	`*** join/#openmoko Digital_Pioneer (n=digitalp@h65.198.255.206.cable.srcy.cablelynx.com)`
`00:56.50`	`ronny`	`times when irony hirts more than i should`
`00:56.53`	`ronny`	`*hurts`
`00:56.58`	`Dave`	`:\`
`00:57.03`	`ronny`	`hmm`
`00:57.29`	`ronny`	`i wonder if one can come up with hirts and hurts as recursive acronym for what gnu hurd is`
`00:57.58`	`Dave`	`:o`
`00:58.04`	`Dave`	`mÃ¸Ã¸?`
`00:58.41`	`ronny`	`Dave: its a microkernel thats made out of fail`
`00:58.51`	`Dave`	`hahaha`
`00:58.54`	`Dave`	`YES`
`00:59.03`	`Dave`	`high-fives ronny`
`00:59.13`	`*** join/#openmoko Sharwin_F (n=Sharwin_@90.163.50.195)`
`01:01.12`	`ronny`	`hmm`
`01:01.30`	`ronny`	`damn, im sleepy and full of ideas to implement`
`01:01.50`	`Dave`	`:(`
`01:02.01`	`ShellEvil`	`passes ronny the idea of lying down for 8 hours and shutting eyes.`
`01:02.42`	`ronny`	`ok, night`
`01:03.05`	`*** join/#openmoko zash (n=zash@zash.se)`
`01:05.20`	`Dave`	`truste`
`01:30.57`	`*** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@91-113-124-145.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`01:31.25`	`*** join/#openmoko peter__b (n=peter_b@p5497BBB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
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`01:56.55`	`bove2`	`hi.`
`01:57.31`	`bove2`	`my Nokia N82 just got nicked. Is Qt still the best option for a everyday phone?`
`02:02.34`	`*** join/#openmoko speedevil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)`
`02:02.59`	`*** join/#openmoko Rampentpancake (n=IceChat7@adsl-68-91-120-196.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)`
`02:03.18`	`Rampentpancake`	`hello again`
`02:03.49`	`*** join/#openmoko shanka (n=shashank@59.92.148.103)`
`02:04.40`	`*** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@bas5-london14-1177976543.dsl.bell.ca)`
`02:05.46`	`Rampentpancake`	`does any one here know where i can get linux drivers for my wi-fi card?`
`02:06.16`	`Rampentpancake`	`it's a NETGEAR WG311 v3`
`02:06.27`	`*** join/#openmoko Defiant- (i=erik@c202235.adsl.hansenet.de)`
`02:08.15`	`Rampentpancake`	`anyone?`
`02:08.36`	`*** join/#openmoko shanka (n=shanka@59.92.148.103)`
`02:09.20`	`*** join/#openmoko Arhuaco3 (n=n@Dynamic-IP-cr2001184846.cable.net.co)`
`02:12.42`	`*** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro)`
`02:17.12`	`Dave`	`What's the chipset?`
`02:17.16`	`Dave`	`you should try to figure that out`
`02:17.51`	`Rampentpancake`	`sorry, what do you mean by chipset?`
`02:18.38`	`*** join/#openmoko xcasex (n=rrg@71-197.lerstenen.t3.se)`
`02:19.07`	`*** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@78-1-188-224.adsl.net.t-com.hr)`
`02:19.13`	`Dave`	`just check online and do research`
`02:19.15`	`Dave`	`:]`
`02:19.22`	`Dave`	`other people have probably tried it :P`
`02:19.22`	`CVirus`	`LOL`
`02:19.39`	`Rampentpancake`	`hmm ok`
`02:19.49`	`Rampentpancake`	`sorry to bother you`
`02:20.02`	`Dave`	`Nah, it's fine, but rather than explaining, I'll just help you help yourself :)`
`02:20.39`	`Dave`	`Since, I'm sure someone else has done this, and wifi drivers in linux is a big deal so I'm certain the info is more readily out there than by going to netgear's website or something :)`
`02:25.48`	`*** join/#openmoko phoborg (i=phobfn@momo.das-netzwerkteam.de)`
`02:31.46`	`*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-238-63.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)`
`02:33.03`	`*** join/#openmoko Shlee (n=MrShlee@ppp121-45-197-112.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net)`
`02:37.08`	`*** join/#openmoko los (n=los@194.29.137.44)`
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`02:43.30`	`Rampentpancake`	`so since this is #openmoko, how many of your are on irc with your freerunner?`
`02:43.30`	`*** join/#openmoko RaggedDruid (n=AWOO@c-98-200-49-127.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
`02:45.45`	`Kt_`	`I'm thinking that number will be close to 0`
`02:45.57`	`Dave`	`maybe 3`
`02:46.03`	`Rampentpancake`	`it's that unstable?`
`02:46.06`	`Dave`	`and we disconnect frequently :P`
`02:46.12`	`Dave`	`;D`
`02:46.18`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`Rampentpancake, flamebait?`
`02:46.25`	`Dave`	`Ze Kaiser!`
`02:46.36`	`Rampentpancake`	`oh well, price you gotta pay i guess`
`02:46.48`	`Rampentpancake`	`flamebait, no!`
`02:47.01`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`Dave, allo`
`02:47.02`	`Rampentpancake`	`i just thought it would be cool to ask`
`02:47.36`	`*** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@ip72-219-131-110.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`02:47.37`	`Kt_`	`I just wish my husband had at least one phonethat worked reliably`
`02:48.12`	`Kt_`	`that had a volume control that you did not have to access in CLI`
`02:48.28`	`RaggedDruid`	`sup pancake?`
`02:48.56`	`Rampentpancake`	`RaggedDruid: not too much`
`02:49.51`	`mwester`	`wonders where people get their nicks from...`
`02:50.09`	`Rampentpancake`	`hello mwester`
`02:50.16`	`mwester`	`'allo`
`02:50.26`	`Rampentpancake`	`i fixed my ubuntu problem`
`02:50.38`	`mwester`	`you switched to Fedora?`
`02:50.42`	`mwester`	`:P`
`02:50.44`	`Rampentpancake`	`i wish`
`02:51.12`	`Rampentpancake`	`turns out i did not specify where i wannted the image to mount`
`02:51.26`	`Rampentpancake`	`newbie mistake`
`02:51.42`	`mwester`	`;) yeah, that'll do it. It then has to go to the fstab to see if it can figure out what you meant.`
`02:51.50`	`RaggedDruid`	`on that note, would it be possible for me to compile an XBMC livecd with Mandriva or Fedora instead of ubuntu? for some reason ubuntu doesn't like my computer.`
`02:51.59`	`*** join/#openmoko MrShleee (n=MrShlee@ppp121-45-197-112.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net)`
`02:52.00`	`Rampentpancake`	`what is fstab?`
`02:52.03`	`RaggedDruid`	`it'll load for a bit, but then just stall.`
`02:52.57`	`mwester`	`RaggedDruid: Don't think so...`
`02:53.15`	`RaggedDruid`	`sucks`
`02:53.39`	`*** join/#openmoko shanka (n=shanka@59.92.133.188)`
`02:53.50`	`mwester`	`Rampentpancake: it's one of the central files for your linux install: /etc/fstab contains the list of all disk and storage devices on your system, and where (and how) they should be added (or not).`
`02:54.07`	`Rampentpancake`	`how do you guys maintan the 24live log?`
`02:54.22`	`Rampentpancake`	`like, is it a java thing or what?`
`02:55.11`	`Dave`	`Hmm?`
`02:56.24`	`Rampentpancake`	`on the openmoko wiki it gives a link to the 24 live log of irc on #openmoko`
`02:56.55`	`Rampentpancake`	`i was just thinking if it was written in java or something else entirely`
`02:57.00`	`*** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@vpn.yellowpages.com)`
`02:57.21`	`Dave`	`bot bot bot`
`02:57.26`	`Dave`	`apt: bot?`
`02:57.27`	`apt`	`I ain't no stinkin' bot. I am a finely tuned and hand crafted tool. Oh wait... I guess I am a bot (that you should not abuse).`
`02:57.30`	`Dave`	`:p`
`02:57.38`	`Dave`	`abuses apt`
`02:57.41`	`Dave`	`hehe`
`02:57.42`	`mwester`	`Dave -- stop abusing the bot.`
`02:57.49`	`Dave`	`Okay, okay :[`
`02:57.53`	`Dave`	`no fun for me`
`02:57.54`	`Rampentpancake`	`oh so it's a bot`
`02:57.54`	`mwester`	`apt: poor bot`
`02:58.02`	`Dave`	`pets apt`
`02:58.23`	`Rampentpancake`	`what's it written in?`
`02:58.46`	`Dave`	`PEARL!`
`02:58.49`	`mwester`	`apt: what are you?`
`02:58.50`	`apt`	`I am a blootbot. For more info see <blootbot>`
`02:58.58`	`mwester`	`Perl`
`02:59.03`	`Rampentpancake`	`perl huh?`
`02:59.05`	`Rampentpancake`	`cool`
`02:59.10`	`Dave`	`Yep`
`02:59.13`	`Rampentpancake`	`is it open source?`
`02:59.16`	`Dave`	`duh`
`02:59.18`	`Dave`	`perl is life`
`02:59.47`	`mwester`	`;) wanna pick a fight? Just shout "Perl beats the **** out of Python!" in a room full of Linux geeks.`
`03:00.00`	`Rampentpancake`	`dave:you didn't write it by any chance?`
`03:00.01`	`Dave`	`apt: start a holy war!`
`03:00.02`	`apt`	`ACTION gets a holy war! started`
`03:00.08`	`Dave`	`bah -_-`
`03:00.16`	`Dave`	`pancake, no`
`03:00.19`	`mwester`	`apt: Perl is better than Python`
`03:00.20`	`apt`	`ACTION forces ^Migs^ to use perl`
`03:00.22`	`Dave`	`but I did contribute to B:BB`
`03:00.39`	`Dave`	`which is what most all real bots use`
`03:00.43`	`playya_`	`python > perl`
`03:00.49`	`Dave`	`pfft`
`03:00.50`	`Rampentpancake`	`python is better`
`03:00.51`	`mwester`	`see?`
`03:00.54`	`Dave`	`maybe for writing REAL programs`
`03:00.56`	`Dave`	`coughs`
`03:01.00`	`Dave`	`:P`
`03:01.00`	`Rampentpancake`	`just kidding`
`03:01.03`	`playya_`	`yes.`
`03:01.05`	`Dave`	`actually it's funny`
`03:01.17`	`Dave`	`apparently and ironically python has a much bigger overhead`
`03:01.18`	`playya_`	`but maybe you could have more fun with perl`
`03:01.23`	`Dave`	`duh`
`03:01.28`	`Dave`	`nothing is fun about python`
`03:01.32`	`Dave`	`except that it goes hiss`
`03:01.35`	`mwester`	`If the GTA02 ran emacs for the operating system, and perl for the framework -- it would be done and we'd all be waiting for the gta05 by now.`
`03:01.42`	`Rampentpancake`	`honestly, i have no preferance as to what language i use`
`03:01.46`	`Dave`	`:D`
`03:01.51`	`playya_`	`heh`
`03:02.00`	`Dave`	`Well I'm sure there's one thing we can all agree on`
`03:02.16`	`Dave`	`when it comes to simple string manipulation... perl is a no-brainer :P`
`03:02.30`	`Dave`	`also, it's fun & dirty :P`
`03:02.34`	`Dave`	`JUST LIKE YOU, APT!`
`03:02.37`	`Dave`	`>:)`
`03:02.51`	`Rampentpancake`	`but i will say this: python is faster to get into`
`03:02.53`	`playya_`	`pokes apt`
`03:03.00`	`Dave`	`touches apt`
`03:03.52`	`mwester`	`apt: run away!`
`03:04.00`	`Dave`	`mwester: botsnack`
`03:04.10`	`mwester`	`is doing anything to avoid having to do any real work.`
`03:04.18`	`Dave`	`haha, same here :]`
`03:04.45`	`mwester`	`I have documentation for the week's work that's due. I should have done it earlier, but...`
`03:04.49`	`playya_`	`no prolog in openembedded :(`
`03:04.55`	`Dave`	`waahaha`
`03:05.05`	`Dave`	`mwester, but... we're here!`
`03:05.07`	`Dave`	`and we like you!`
`03:05.10`	`Dave`	`:)`
`03:08.10`	`Rampentpancake`	`what is the gta02?`
`03:08.22`	`Rampentpancake`	`is it the hardware?`
`03:08.51`	`Dave`	`yes`
`03:08.53`	`Dave`	`model number`
`03:09.15`	`*** join/#openmoko dns53 (n=dns@ppp246-215.static.internode.on.net)`
`03:09.54`	`Rampentpancake`	`ah`
`03:09.57`	`Rampentpancake`	`i see`
`03:12.29`	`Dave`	`e.g. currently it is the gta02v5 (5 is the revision number of the hardware model)`
`03:12.39`	`Rampentpancake`	`hmm`
`03:12.46`	`Rampentpancake`	`that's neat`
`03:13.26`	`Rampentpancake`	`in an ironic twist of fate, i don't even have a freerunner`
`03:13.38`	`Rampentpancake`	`and i'm on #openmoko`
`03:13.42`	`Rampentpancake`	`oh well`
`03:14.31`	`*** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-24-6-167-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`03:15.51`	`*** join/#openmoko _madwoota (i=mad@woota.net)`
`03:16.57`	`*** join/#openmoko kW (n=kW@unaffiliated/kw)`
`03:17.03`	`*** join/#openmoko dougt_ (n=dougt@c-24-6-167-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`03:22.54`	`Rampentpancake`	`so is there a freerunner equivelent of a "killer app" right now?`
`03:23.21`	`Rampentpancake`	`or is it largly "pray it doesn't crash" apps?`
`03:32.49`	`*** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-24-6-167-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`03:33.00`	`*** part/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-24-6-167-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`03:38.43`	`*** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-24-6-167-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`03:38.54`	`kW`	`Rampentpancake: well, I'm working on it... ;-)`
`03:42.08`	`Dave`	`:]`
`03:42.46`	`Rampentpancake`	`hmm`
`03:43.10`	`Rampentpancake`	`can i run openmoko as a live cd?`
`03:44.02`	`Rampentpancake`	`like is it a bootable linux distribution?`
`03:53.02`	*** join/#openmoko pcfe` (n=pcfe@a88-115-6-155.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
`03:53.10`	`Dave`	`ahahahahahahaha`
`03:53.12`	`Dave`	`oh man`
`03:53.19`	`Dave`	`hahahahahahahahahahhhahhaahaahaha`
`03:53.29`	`Dave`	`You're going on the wiki, pancakeman!`
`03:53.31`	`Dave`	`:D`
`03:55.34`	`Dave`	`also, haha holy crap, this is hilarious`
`03:55.36`	`Dave`	`http://www.om.vptt.ch/site/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/poster81947927.jpg`
`03:56.16`	`Rampentpancake`	`ooooh boy, i have a feeling i stated something blindingly apperent`
`03:57.08`	`*** part/#openmoko Kagee (i=hildenae@wikimedia/Kagee)`
`03:57.13`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`lol`
`03:57.54`	`Dave`	`:D`
`03:58.12`	`Dave`	`Man, when OM has motivational posters... you know it's something big...`
`03:58.13`	`Dave`	`EPIC?`
`03:58.20`	`Dave`	`awaits the EPIC MOKO poster`
`03:58.20`	`*** part/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-24-6-167-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`03:59.32`	`playya_`	`can some please try to run this: git clone git://git.freesmartphone.org/fso-monitord.git && cd fso-monitord && ./autogen.sh && make all maintainer-clean && ./autogen.sh && make && cd ..`
`04:00.01`	`playya_`	`i think there is a mistake in data/makefile.am`
`04:00.19`	`Dave`	`sup playa`
`04:00.28`	`Dave`	`unsurprising`
`04:01.50`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`lol @ jpg`
`04:02.08`	`Dave`	`I'm glad you still find it amusing, Mr. Kaiser :)`
`04:02.23`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`Dave, :) i hadnt seen it before`
`04:05.35`	`Rampentpancake`	`ha ha ha`
`04:06.22`	`Dave`	`:D`
`04:06.29`	`Dave`	`Man, you should check out the jokes page`
`04:06.44`	`Dave`	`I'm slowly converting it into an om-bash... without anybody's knowledge`
`04:06.44`	`Dave`	`:P`
`04:07.24`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`haha. didn't know there was a jokes page :p`
`04:07.42`	`Dave`	`:D!`
`04:07.44`	`Dave`	`Read it, read it!`
`04:10.22`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`i will, at some point. perhaps after i smack pmwiki into submission :)`
`04:10.36`	`Dave`	`hooray`
`04:13.55`	`Rampentpancake`	`i notice i'm on the jokes page`
`04:13.59`	`Rampentpancake`	`XD`
`04:14.05`	`Dave`	`YYep :P`
`04:14.11`	`Dave`	`dude,`
`04:14.14`	`Dave`	`sorry to say, but`
`04:14.23`	`Dave`	`noobs make great quotes`
`04:14.23`	`Dave`	`:D`
`04:14.31`	`Rampentpancake`	`it's ok`
`04:14.33`	`Dave`	`but in a good way`
`04:14.36`	`Dave`	`I'm not insulting you at all :)`
`04:14.49`	`Rampentpancake`	`i am a n00b after all`
`04:15.06`	`Rampentpancake`	`no, of course not, it's all in good fun`
`04:15.48`	`*** join/#openmoko _madwoota (i=mad@woota.net)`
`04:17.27`	`Dave`	`:))`
`04:20.01`	`Rampentpancake`	`and in retrospect, i'm famous!`
`04:20.03`	`Rampentpancake`	`?`
`04:20.11`	`Rampentpancake`	`nah, guess not`
`04:21.37`	`Dave`	`:D`
`04:21.38`	`Dave`	`yep`
`04:21.46`	`*** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net)`
`04:24.30`	`*** join/#openmoko alphabeat1 (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au)`
`04:27.13`	`Rampentpancake`	`ok i figured out the answer to the question`
`04:27.42`	`Rampentpancake`	`stupid me`
`04:27.53`	`*** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro)`
`04:29.43`	`Dave`	`:)`
`04:29.52`	`Dave`	`Thank you for calling Dell.`
`04:30.11`	`Rampentpancake`	`ha ha yeah, shut up`
`04:30.14`	`*** join/#openmoko eolson (n=eolson@c-24-13-244-61.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`04:30.19`	`Rampentpancake`	`just kidding`
`04:30.22`	`Rampentpancake`	`lulz`
`04:31.18`	`Dave`	`:)`
`04:31.18`	`Dave`	`good`
`04:31.39`	`*** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242)`
`04:31.44`	`Rampentpancake`	`it's called sarcasm`
`04:32.35`	`Rampentpancake`	`of course, if i use it on you guys, then my computer will prob. have all the funcionality of a freerunner`
`04:32.52`	`catsup`	`hahaha`
`04:33.06`	`Rampentpancake`	`hah stupid joke`
`04:33.11`	`Dave`	`>:D`
`04:33.21`	`catsup`	`it's funny because it's true :D`
`04:33.24`	`Dave`	`Yeah`
`04:33.30`	`Dave`	`Don't underestimate us!`
`04:34.13`	`Rampentpancake`	`ok, i realize you guys have a sense of humor`
`04:34.42`	`Dave`	`Damn straight!`
`04:34.56`	`Rampentpancake`	`well then`
`04:35.00`	`Rampentpancake`	`good for you`
`04:35.02`	`Dave`	`Wouldn't that be pure evil?`
`04:35.06`	`Dave`	`The Openmoko Virus`
`04:35.10`	`Dave`	`:O`
`04:35.13`	`Rampentpancake`	`yeah`
`04:35.20`	`Dave`	`Infects your mobile devices and replaces the OS with OM`
`04:35.24`	`Dave`	`>:D`
`04:35.34`	`Dave`	`rendering the world's people useless`
`04:35.38`	`Rampentpancake`	`you should implement it as a "feature"`
`04:35.39`	`Dave`	`hahaha`
`04:35.45`	`Dave`	`haha`
`04:36.02`	`Rampentpancake`	`that what apple did with drm`
`04:36.08`	`Dave`	`hahaha yeah`
`04:36.10`	`Dave`	`those fuckers`
`04:36.19`	`Dave`	`they're all into the tentacle rape these days...`
`04:36.26`	`Rampentpancake`	`oh THAT that's a feature`
`04:36.29`	`daMaestro`	`cracked his freerunner scree`
`04:36.33`	`daMaestro`	`pouts`
`04:36.36`	`Dave`	`:O`
`04:36.37`	`Dave`	`Oh snap!`
`04:36.39`	`daMaestro`	`screen*`
`04:36.44`	`Rampentpancake`	`not trying to screw you over at all`
`04:36.47`	`Dave`	`What happened, you lent it to Bob, and he sat on it? :P`
`04:36.51`	`daMaestro`	`lol`
`04:36.53`	`Dave`	`;D`
`04:36.55`	`Dave`	`STILL GOT IT :D`
`04:36.59`	`Rampentpancake`	`huh`
`04:36.59`	`daMaestro`	`it was in my backpack, and... fail`
`04:37.05`	`Dave`	`Aww`
`04:37.08`	`Dave`	`shitty`
`04:37.13`	`Rampentpancake`	`sucks`
`04:37.25`	`Dave`	`I would still argue it's more durable than an iphone`
`04:37.31`	`Dave`	`or anything apple has put out`
`04:37.39`	`Rampentpancake`	`but`
`04:37.43`	`daMaestro`	`yeah, and i'm going to wait to see the gta03, but i doubt it will be dual sim... which i really want`
`04:37.54`	`daMaestro`	`i wont be ordering another gta02`
`04:38.15`	`Rampentpancake`	`i read somewhere that people are hacking linux on to iphones/itouchs`
`04:38.24`	`Dave`	`yeah`
`04:38.39`	`Rampentpancake`	`thereby giveing ipods the openess of openmoko`
`04:38.53`	`Rampentpancake`	`without the headaches hopefuly`
`04:39.30`	`Dave`	`Jon, if I ever give up on this project, I'll send you a pitymoko.`
`04:39.30`	`Rampentpancake`	`someone needs to make a true jingle for openmoko`
`04:40.02`	`Rampentpancake`	`like "free your phone, then watch it crash"`
`04:40.07`	`*** join/#openmoko jeffszusz (n=jeffszus@d57-97-215.home.cgocable.net)`
`04:40.14`	`Rampentpancake`	`"and beg for mercy"`
`04:40.43`	`Rampentpancake`	`although that's not really catchy`
`04:40.45`	`Rampentpancake`	`at all`
`04:40.47`	`daMaestro`	`Dave, thanks, but i already sent my gta01 to a worthy dev ;-)`
`04:40.56`	`*** join/#openmoko \|mr (n=lymeca@student167-75.hampshire.edu)`
`04:41.02`	`daMaestro`	`Dave, and i'll be using my gta02 for a sms gateway for some code i'm working on`
`04:41.28`	`daMaestro`	`i'm hoping that the General Mobile DSTL1 will be out soon, or i'm just going to get an android dev phone`
`04:42.22`	`Dave`	`Ah!`
`04:42.27`	`Dave`	`haha, nice`
`04:42.37`	`Dave`	`awww`
`04:42.40`	`Dave`	`pussy :p`
`04:43.24`	`daMaestro`	`damn, looks like Q3`
`04:43.44`	`Dave`	`:D`
`04:43.51`	`daMaestro`	`look, my gta02 screen cracked because i didn't keep it in my pocket (work phone was)`
`04:43.56`	`daMaestro`	`i need something dual sim`
`04:44.27`	`Dave`	`yeah`
`04:44.29`	`Dave`	`try asia`
`04:44.33`	`Rampentpancake`	`daMaestro: can't you open the thing up and replace it?`
`04:44.44`	`Rampentpancake`	`the screen i mean`
`04:45.15`	`Dave`	`...`
`04:45.17`	`daMaestro`	`Rampentpancake, i've thought about tracking down replacement parts; but i really don't have much $freetime`
`04:45.22`	`Dave`	`Why would you want to?`
`04:45.27`	`Dave`	`expensive`
`04:45.33`	`Dave`	`lke $100, anyway`
`04:45.38`	`daMaestro`	`yeah, i have a perfectly fine use for it`
`04:45.40`	`Rampentpancake`	`wow...`
`04:45.54`	`Dave`	`I don't know, for a while, there was a bunch of Gta01's up on ebay for parts`
`04:45.56`	`Dave`	`but that was a while ago`
`04:46.12`	`Dave`	`now it's just getting filled up with more and more dissatisfied freerunner buyers`
`04:46.17`	`Dave`	`who want to toss it`
`04:46.20`	`Dave`	`Â¬_Â¬`
`04:46.38`	`daMaestro`	`yeah, i had been using it as a day to day phone for about 2 months`
`04:46.39`	`daMaestro`	`:-/`
`04:46.49`	`Dave`	`WOW`
`04:46.53`	`Dave`	`One of few.`
`04:46.58`	`Dave`	`shakes fist`
`04:47.01`	`Dave`	`You bastard :p`
`04:47.04`	`Dave`	`making us look bad`
`04:47.40`	`Rampentpancake`	`making it seem as though the thing is acctualy usable`
`04:47.46`	`Dave`	`pretty much ;)`
`04:48.10`	`Rampentpancake`	`when it's not`
`04:48.39`	`daMaestro`	`i found it quite usable, but ran into plenty of bugs`
`04:49.07`	`Dave`	`What did you run?`
`04:49.09`	`Dave`	`Qtopia? Â¬_Â¬`
`04:49.12`	`Dave`	`qtx?`
`04:49.14`	`Dave`	`bbq?`
`04:50.09`	`Rampentpancake`	`well that about wraps it up for me`
`04:50.17`	`Rampentpancake`	`bye everyone`
`04:50.23`	`*** part/#openmoko else58 (n=else58@70.114.141.46)`
`04:50.28`	`Rampentpancake`	`thanks for the bad jokes :)`
`04:50.43`	`daMaestro`	`2008.12`
`04:50.54`	`Dave`	`Interesting...`
`04:51.06`	`Dave`	`well, Way to go you :)`
`04:51.15`	`daMaestro`	`i was even playing doom on it :-)`
`04:51.21`	`*** part/#openmoko Rampentpancake (n=IceChat7@adsl-68-91-120-196.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)`
`04:51.47`	`Dave`	`hot`
`04:51.54`	`Dave`	`how about those controls...`
`04:52.39`	`daMaestro`	`it didn't work very well on the bus... but i was surprised at how well the accelerometers worked`
`04:52.48`	`daMaestro`	`(bus == mass transit)`
`04:53.18`	`daMaestro`	`the spacebar was somewhat challenging to use (aka... open doors/activate switches)`
`04:54.13`	`daMaestro`	`i started working on remapping things and getting multiplayer going, but then ..... smash`
`04:54.43`	`daMaestro`	`and the screen is still in one piece with lost of cracks, seeing as how i had the invisible shield on it`
`04:55.17`	`Dave`	`ick`
`04:55.22`	`Dave`	`man`
`04:55.25`	`Dave`	`bricks?`
`04:55.35`	`daMaestro`	`s/lost/lots/`
`04:56.06`	`*** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@62.57.51.143.dyn.user.ono.com)`
`04:57.34`	`Dave`	`didn't SHIELD it much, did it? :\`
`04:57.46`	`ShellEvil`	`well - it's just for scratches`
`04:57.57`	`ShellEvil`	`does nothing for blunt force trauma`
`04:59.06`	`Dave`	`YES :D`
`04:59.16`	`Dave`	`haha, speaking of CSI...`
`05:00.02`	`Dave`	`It was Colonel Mustard, with the Revolver, in the Conservatory!`
`05:00.14`	`*** join/#openmoko gurugentoo (n=narf@r74-192-213-122.bcstcmta02.clsttx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net)`
`05:01.21`	`*** join/#openmoko \|mr (n=lymeca@student167-75.hampshire.edu)`
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`05:29.16`	`CIA-49`	`freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07fso-monitord * ra55a6be95504 10/src/ (consts.vala logger.vala monitor.vala): added FSO.Device.* signals`
`05:29.16`	`CIA-49`	`freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07fso-monitord * r03ab6127e29d 10/src/main.vala: added missing logger to monitor`
`05:29.18`	`CIA-49`	`freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07fso-monitord * r4206533fb9ed 10/ (data/Makefile.am src/monitor.vala):`
`05:29.18`	`CIA-49`	`freesmartphone.org: fixed error in data/makefile.am which removes the initskript on`
`05:29.20`	`CIA-49`	`freesmartphone.org: maintainer-clean`
`05:29.22`	`CIA-49`	`freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07fso-monitord * r97841d239ca2 10/data/fso-monitord: wget htmlized the skript`
`05:29.25`	`CIA-49`	`freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07fso-monitord * r6a7860dc09a1 10/data/fso-monitord: fixed initscripts permissions, again...`
`05:32.15`	`*** join/#openmoko jOERG_zzZZzz (n=jr@p5493DCDC.dip.t-dialin.net)`
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`05:47.55`	`johnsu01`	`well, slapping on a couple .encode("utf-8")'s fixed these zhone errors but I'm sure that's not the right thing to do`
`05:51.54`	`*** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-99-2-134-30.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net)`
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`06:55.07`	`losinggeneration`	`anyone know what the difference with microSDHC 8GB and microSDHC 16GB cards are (and why apparently 8GB is supported and not 16GB)`
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`07:23.59`	`mwester`	`There are no difference other than timings.`
`07:24.12`	`mwester`	`(for the kernel at least)`
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`07:49.19`	`losinggeneration`	`mwester: so does that mean that 16GB cards may work (is it dependent on the kernel rather than the hardware in the om?)`
`07:50.05`	`mwester`	`No, that's not what I said.`
`07:51.16`	`losinggeneration`	`you're right, you didn't say that, that's why I was asking for a clarification of what you did say`
`07:52.30`	`mwester`	`Fact: some 8GB cards work, some don't on the gta02 -- the difference seems to be timing, and possibly drive strength or similar hardware/driver issues. Speculation: Since there are no differences between 8GB and 16GB cards apart from capacity, and since capacity is handled a level higher than the driver, therefore it is reasonable to assume that some 16GB cards may work.`
`07:52.45`	`*** join/#openmoko anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5B07FF10.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`07:52.53`	`rooly`	`and also 32gb cards`
`07:53.06`	`rooly`	`since they all rely on the same spec`
`07:53.30`	`losinggeneration`	`but they're just not tested (or if they have been they haven't been added to the wiki)`
`07:53.36`	`mwester`	`Yep. The big incompatible "jump" was SD -> SDHC (2GB to >2GB).`
`07:54.07`	`rooly`	`sdxc is the next one, iirc, which will jump to 2TB`
`07:54.31`	`mwester`	`isn't willing to spend the kind of money required just to be able to test a 16GB usd card!`
`07:54.36`	`*** join/#openmoko grummel (n=christia@cl-13.dus-01.de.sixxs.net)`
`07:54.52`	`rooly`	`is`
`07:55.00`	`rooly`	`in a few years`
`07:57.17`	`losinggeneration`	`oh shoot, there was one 16GB SDHC card listed on the wiki that I missed when looking it over`
`07:57.20`	`losinggeneration`	`my bad`
`07:59.56`	`rooly`	`must sleep`
`07:59.57`	`rooly`	`g'night`
`08:00.04`	`rooly`	`this is gonna hurt so bad in the morning`
`08:02.52`	`*** join/#openmoko gfather (n=user@79.173.224.219)`
`08:03.52`	`*** join/#openmoko gurugentoo (n=narf@tamulink-0004.vpn.tamu.edu)`
`08:06.24`	`SpeedEvil`	`32G and over is incompatible with current SDHC`
`08:06.39`	`SpeedEvil`	`stabs the SD association.`
`08:09.04`	`*** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-172-84.tll.elisa.ee)`
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`08:12.57`	`PaulFertser`	`mwester: I use FR as the only phone, i am a user.`
`08:13.56`	`PaulFertser`	`losinggeneration: there were reports that 16Gb SDHC works. Moreover, all 8Gb SDHC are supposed to work with the latest kernel (if not, you can try to provide enough debugging info to get them working, at least that's what others do).`
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`08:15.47`	`PaulFertser`	`mwester: SD -> SDHC is not a big jump, imho, as doesn't require any hardware changes for host controllers.`
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`08:21.12`	`Railer`	`how come no admins?`
`08:21.52`	`Defiant-`	`maybe their openmoko crashed :P`
`08:22.32`	`Railer`	`so I shut off my openmoko for the last 6 months, is it useable yet?`
`08:23.00`	`Defiant-`	`what do you understand under "useable"?`
`08:23.35`	`Railer`	`wifi, gps?`
`08:23.51`	`Defiant-`	`works for me`
`08:23.55`	`Railer`	`you can understand the other guy on the phone?`
`08:23.59`	`*** join/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@85.93.174.26)`
`08:24.09`	`*** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au)`
`08:24.13`	`Defiant-`	`don't use it as a phone`
`08:24.28`	`Railer`	`did you do the capisator mod for the gps?`
`08:24.41`	`Railer`	`why you in canada too?`
`08:26.05`	`Railer`	`so what version are you using?`
`08:26.15`	`Railer`	`sos/software?`
`08:26.19`	`Railer`	`os`
`08:26.35`	`Railer`	`does the wifi work solid now?`
`08:27.38`	`doc\|home`	`seems to work ok in shr, although I haven't used it that much`
`08:27.50`	`Railer`	`I remember Doc`
`08:28.37`	`Railer`	`so whats the most stable system now?`
`08:32.07`	`doc\|home`	`shr is good`
`08:32.15`	`doc\|home`	`although it has its quirks`
`08:32.25`	`doc\|home`	`not sure otherwise`
`08:32.33`	`doc\|home`	`out`
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`08:35.07`	`*** part/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-172-84.tll.elisa.ee)`
`08:35.58`	`gfather[a]`	`Railer id say android`
`08:36.13`	`Defiant-`	`Railer: me using debian and no gps mod`
`08:38.36`	`*** join/#openmoko richy (n=richy@91-64-164-208-dynip.superkabel.de)`
`08:42.44`	`Railer`	`andriod is new`
`08:43.07`	`Railer`	`any pics?`
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`08:45.25`	`gfather`	`Railer search google for android`
`08:46.14`	`Railer`	`done`
`08:46.25`	`Railer`	`got side tracked with opendoom`
`08:46.36`	`Railer`	`no open mokok`
`08:48.14`	`*** join/#openmoko marcels (n=marcel@cp1189687-a.roose1.nb.home.nl)`
`08:48.37`	`Railer`	`and how is voip over moko?`
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`08:51.01`	`*** part/#openmoko marcels_ (n=marcel@cp1189687-a.roose1.nb.home.nl)`
`08:59.18`	`*** part/#openmoko Railer (n=Jim_Bilo@S0106001e5840f44c.ed.shawcable.net)`
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`09:18.30`	`PBeck`	`ahoi`
`09:26.19`	`gfather`	`PBeck hay`
`09:26.33`	`PBeck`	`hi gfather :)`
`09:26.42`	`gfather`	`:)`
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`09:27.58`	`PaulFertser`	`gfather: Hi, dude :) Have you managed to start A finally?`
`09:29.05`	`gfather`	`PaulFertser yah m8 . long time ago :)`
`09:29.20`	`PaulFertser`	`gfather: what was the problem then?`
`09:29.26`	`gfather`	`PaulFertser i hope u install it to , i think ull be inpressed`
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`09:30.43`	`PaulFertser`	`gfather: no way, i'm religious ;) But what was the obstacle for you?`
`09:31.09`	`gfather`	`PaulFertser no problems m8 , well the problems still the same , :) , can localize om and the same stuff we discussed , but other than that , just trying to boost a audio and other stuff`
`09:32.00`	`*** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178001156.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`09:32.13`	`gfather`	`PaulFertser but i didnt post here any questions :)`
`09:32.53`	`PaulFertser`	`gfather: i remember you couldn't make A run from SD. Have you managed to do that and if yes, how?`
`09:34.15`	`gfather`	`yes , just got the A image , extracted it on sd , and got right init.rc and uimage v8 and it worked ;)`
`09:34.31`	`PaulFertser`	`gfather: but why didn't it work the first time then? ;)`
`09:34.42`	`*** join/#openmoko JSmile (n=JSmile@81-86-251-117.dsl.pipex.com)`
`09:34.44`	`gfather`	`uimage had to be renamed to uimage-gta02 something , and copied to /boot`
`09:35.34`	`gfather`	`PaulFertser well i didnt understand how the system should be to boot from sd, ut now i understand thanks to you ;)`
`09:36.20`	`PaulFertser`	`gfather: great for you. I hope you'll succeed in helping the community :)`
`09:37.25`	`gfather`	`i hope that to :)`
`09:38.03`	`gfather`	`well A seems more localizations friendlly and atleast it support bidi with the right fonts`
`09:38.16`	`gfather`	`maybe could do arabic keyboard to`
`09:39.19`	`*** join/#openmoko [-zeno-] (n=zeno@host24-33-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`09:39.52`	`PaulFertser`	`gfather: real bidi support? great. BTW, have i told you what one cool Israel developer said about RTL?`
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`09:40.49`	`gfather`	`PaulFertser) what ?`
`09:41.07`	`*** join/#openmoko grummel69 (n=christia@cl-13.dus-01.de.sixxs.net)`
`09:41.52`	`PaulFertser`	`gfather: he said: 'historic chinese and japanese was Top-to-Bottom, modern is left-to-right. I'd wish historic Hebrew was RTL and modern Hebrew was English'`
`09:42.58`	`gfather`	`hmm , well thats hard to be`
`09:43.24`	`gfather`	`rtl is so much diffrent than asian stuff , its like rtl langiages are impossible to change`
`09:43.50`	`PaulFertser`	`gfather: that's why he said he wished it was English ;)`
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`09:48.43`	`gfather`	`PaulFertser :)`
`09:49.38`	`gfather`	`if all languages where english , then we wouldve getting bored , and then allot of people will lose thier jobs :)`
`09:52.06`	`*** join/#openmoko poco (n=neil@vau06-1-89-85-32-52.dsl.club-internet.fr)`
`10:04.15`	`*** join/#openmoko root_at (n=Anon@194.208.239.170)`
`10:05.17`	`root_at`	`hey, i want to understand whats going on if i compile things with the toolchain, because i want to modify it. but about should i read? cross compiling? makefiles?`
`10:05.36`	`*** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@net70-17.metalit.net)`
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`10:22.04`	`losinggeneration`	`root_at: if you can compile things fine with the toolchain, you should be able to just edit it normally (if you say add source files and it uses autotools you should edit the Makefile.am)`
`10:23.38`	`root_at`	`i know how to compile my own projects with the toolchain, but i want him to use g++ instead of gcc`
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`10:37.14`	`*** join/#openmoko jopk (n=chatzill@p5B167113.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:37.30`	`jopk`	`hi all`
`10:37.37`	`jopk`	`how can a compile *.c on the freerunner?`
`10:38.09`	`*** join/#openmoko Fish (n=SPARCman@AVelizy-152-1-74-4.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
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`10:43.18`	`henk`	`jopk: like anywhere else probably...`
`10:44.06`	`jopk`	`I can't find a tutorial... :( is gcc the right way?`
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`10:44.56`	`*** join/#openmoko leinir (n=leinir@nobelnet.dk)`
`10:44.58`	`henk`	`afaik yes`
`10:46.05`	`Defiant-`	`jopk: yes`
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`11:39.12`	`cmader`	`hi there`
`11:40.25`	`cmader`	`I am trying SHR, but I get problems: the rootfs (now ext2, but i tried ext3 also) seems to be mounted ro`
`11:41.32`	`*** join/#openmoko Zic (n=zic@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.zic)`
`11:42.17`	`gfather`	`cmader) ?`
`11:43.12`	`*** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@fsf/member/zedstar)`
`11:43.15`	`cmader`	`yeah?`
`11:45.36`	`PBeck`	`cmader: how is that possible?`
`11:45.55`	`cmader`	`hmm, I don't know`
`11:45.59`	`PBeck`	`root@om-gta02 ~ $ mount`
`11:45.59`	`PBeck`	`rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)`
`11:46.13`	`*** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@e181180175.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`11:46.25`	`PBeck`	`cmader: can you paste the output from mount?`
`11:46.29`	`cmader`	`die meisten Nicks sind deutsc, seh ich gerade...`
`11:47.17`	`cmader`	`moment, das wird nen bisschen auer, hab das moko erst seid gestern und noch kein networking online....`
`11:47.31`	`*** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i577B6D96.versanet.de)`
`11:47.31`	`cmader`	`das wird nicht auer, sondern dauern`
`11:47.36`	`PBeck`	`cmader: channelsprache ist englisch, ansonsten #neo1973-germany`
`11:47.45`	`cmader`	`ok, english then`
`11:48.10`	`PBeck`	`#neo1973-germany ist the german fan channel of the openmoko-project :)`
`11:48.23`	`cmader`	`did not get up networking jet, therefore the output of mount will take some time`
`11:48.38`	`root_at`	`does anyone know what make wants me to do? http://nopaste.biz/64562`
`11:48.45`	`PBeck`	`cmader: you try it at the moment?`
`11:48.55`	`cmader`	`I will`
`11:49.08`	`root_at`	`compiled with the toolchain, main.CPP added it in configure.ac and /src/Makefile.am`
`11:49.19`	`cmader`	`oh, did I mention that I instaled SHR to sdcard?`
`11:49.41`	`PBeck`	`http://yourse.de/wiki/doku.php?id=openmoko:patricks_ersteschritte cmader`
`11:49.46`	`*** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@60-241-37-3.static.tpgi.com.au)`
`11:49.54`	`PBeck`	`for usb network`
`11:50.52`	`PBeck`	`a few tipps and tricks for me ^^`
`11:51.06`	`PBeck`	`cmader: why on sd-card?`
`11:52.04`	`*** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net)`
`11:52.16`	`*** join/#openmoko nomeata (i=nobody@nomeata.de)`
`11:53.17`	`cmader`	`it's on sdcard to avoid wearing off the internal flash ^^`
`11:53.41`	`cmader`	`and my girlfriend loves the games of FDOM`
`11:54.49`	`PBeck`	`lol`
`11:55.14`	`PaulFertser`	`cmader: ro comes from your bootloader, i guess.`
`11:57.13`	`dns53`	`im using shr and suddenly the battery is flat and does not seem to charge`
`11:58.30`	`cmader`	`I was thinking about that`
`11:59.15`	`*** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74)`
`11:59.43`	`*** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@94.36.93.49)`
`12:03.09`	`LittleIdiot`	`yaay, openwrt on the moko...`
`12:03.18`	`cmader`	`^^`
`12:04.02`	`PaulFertser`	`cmader: so, change the boot params, what's the problem?`
`12:04.03`	`LittleIdiot`	`no, seriously - why do people waste time porting yet another distro instead of helping developing with the other apps?`
`12:04.39`	`LittleIdiot`	`all this would be much more stable/useable if they'd all pull the same string...`
`12:04.55`	`lindi-`	`LittleIdiot: probably because it's fun?`
`12:05.20`	`losinggeneration`	`LittleIdiot: and porting distros doesn't usually require much coding, where developing apps is mostly just coding ;)`
`12:05.36`	`dagger`	`LittleIdiot: becuase linux is all about choices. Some people like to have their own distro`
`12:06.24`	`LittleIdiot`	`still, it takes a lot of time...`
`12:06.30`	`*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.96.184)`
`12:06.39`	`PBeck`	`LittleIdiot: it's the open source community ;)`
`12:06.44`	`*** join/#openmoko chouchen (n=chatzill@125.115.1.184)`
`12:07.19`	`lindi-`	`LittleIdiot: the alternative might be that they'd be doing something completely different :)`
`12:07.48`	`losinggeneration`	`LittleIdiot: time doesn't matter IMO, what matters is that it takes a different set of skills to port an os than to write/develop applications`
`12:07.59`	`cmader`	`changing the bot params via usbconsole, right?`
`12:08.31`	`LittleIdiot`	`yep, that's right losinggeneration ;)`
`12:08.36`	`PaulFertser`	`cmader: if you use u-boot, then yes`
`12:08.38`	`losinggeneration`	`you can know basically nothing about programming and still port an os (assuming the kernel is ported, and the applications don't require modification)`
`12:08.57`	`LittleIdiot`	`okay, maybe i'm just frustrated because i don't see much progress ;)`
`12:09.13`	`lindi-`	`LittleIdiot: what are you working on?`
`12:09.27`	`LittleIdiot`	`voice encryption`
`12:09.50`	`LittleIdiot`	`i'm writing an application that can make encrypted calls via csd connections`
`12:09.55`	`lindi-`	`LittleIdiot: did you get the recording stuff work?`
`12:10.20`	`ShellEvil`	`wishes CSD were available and cheap.`
`12:10.22`	`lindi-`	`LittleIdiot: i've been trying to debug http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket//2073`
`12:10.25`	`LittleIdiot`	`i did with pulseaudio, but since they switched to alsa - no, not really`
`12:10.26`	`losinggeneration`	`FSO is where the current official OM work is going right (I'm still pretty new to the community having only got into it a few days ago)`
`12:10.39`	`lindi-`	`LittleIdiot: you were able to record audio with pulseaudio?`
`12:10.48`	`LittleIdiot`	`yes`
`12:11.02`	`lindi-`	`LittleIdiot: can you please read the bug report and comment on it :)`
`12:11.25`	`lindi-`	`LittleIdiot: what kernel was it and when did you change alsa profiles?`
`12:11.26`	`LittleIdiot`	`okay, well - the lag really was 200-500 ms - quite unacceptable for voice communication`
`12:11.46`	`lindi-`	`LittleIdiot: the thing is, i can't record reliably without hitting kernel oops`
`12:11.56`	`lindi-`	`LittleIdiot: got some code somewhere?`
`12:12.04`	`*** join/#openmoko los (n=los@194.29.137.44)`
`12:12.14`	`LittleIdiot`	`just a moment, i'll have a look`
`12:13.21`	`cmader`	`ok, it's a bootloader problem`
`12:14.26`	`cmader`	`will the bootentry be persistent if i just add it with setenv?`
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`12:19.48`	`soul9`	`switching rootfs to ext4 âº`
`12:26.23`	`PaulFertser`	`cmader: no, you must do saveenv after that`
`12:26.41`	`PaulFertser`	`cmader: and for that to work, you should use NAND bootloader`
`12:27.34`	`*** part/#openmoko los (n=los@194.29.137.44)`
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`12:40.37`	`*** part/#openmoko cmader (n=chrisadm@g226239008.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`12:41.22`	`*** join/#openmoko cmader2 (n=cmader@g226239008.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`12:42.01`	`cmader2`	`hi again :)`
`12:43.33`	`*** join/#openmoko jopk (n=chatzill@p5B167113.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`12:44.08`	`cmader2`	`I am using minicom to connect to uboot via usb. my problem is, that the feedback (showing char after keypress) is one char late. that is very annoying :(`
`12:47.23`	`PaulFertser`	`cmader2: u-boot is very annoying, i agree ;)`
`12:47.38`	`PaulFertser`	`cmader2: i don't have a clue why that happens.`
`12:47.55`	`PaulFertser`	`cmader2: don't forget to saveenv after you tweak your environment`
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`12:48.48`	`PaulFertser`	`cmader2: i used minicom with u-boot ACM console and didn't experience this "one char late" thing.`
`12:50.09`	`*** join/#openmoko bove2 (n=opera@cm-84.208.114.37.getinternet.no)`
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`12:52.39`	`cmader2`	`after resetting the moko via console the problem has vanished`
`12:53.21`	`cmader2`	`thx to the channel. due to your help shr is booting now.`
`12:56.08`	`*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.96.184)`
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`12:57.14`	`cmader2`	`can I hardreset the freerunner without removing the battery?`
`12:58.07`	`cmader2`	`(yes, shm is not working properlym yet ;)`
`12:59.38`	`*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.96.184)`
`13:03.11`	`jopk`	`how can I get "make" on the freerunner?`
`13:03.31`	`th0br0`	`cmader2, what do you mean by hardreset?`
`13:03.41`	`*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.96.184)`
`13:03.41`	`th0br0`	`boot up nor and flash from there?`
`13:03.44`	`th0br0`	`w/o the battery?`
`13:03.47`	`*** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E14DAC.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`13:04.02`	`lindi-`	`jopk: depends on the distro, on debian i just apt-get install make`
`13:04.29`	`jopk`	`lindi: I've shr`
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`13:08.17`	`jopk`	`how can I get make on shr?`
`13:09.05`	`PaulFertser_`	`jopk: opkg install make ?`
`13:10.20`	`*** join/#openmoko yoyoek1 (n=yoyo@c20-97.icpnet.pl)`
`13:10.25`	`jopk`	`PaulFertser: opkg does not find such a package ...`
`13:11.00`	`PaulFertser`	`jopk: i'm a debian user, so can't comment on that ;)`
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`13:20.44`	`*** join/#openmoko Demind (n=marco@85-18-103-169.ip.fastwebnet.it)`
`13:22.15`	`Demind`	`hi`
`13:23.31`	`Demind`	`Does anybody know how I can calibrate the touchscreen?`
`13:23.57`	`jopk`	`has someone a package for make?`
`13:25.01`	`Wonka`	`Demind: tscalibrate or something like that`
`13:25.27`	`Demind`	`have you ever tried?`
`13:25.33`	`root_at`	`what do i have to install with opkg-target in the toolchain to get the /......./usr/lib/pkgconfig?`
`13:25.46`	`emsyr`	`Demind: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Ts_calibrate`
`13:25.53`	`Demind`	`in my Om 2008.12 I don't have it and I'm trying to install it`
`13:25.57`	`Demind`	`just read the Wiki`
`13:25.59`	`root_at`	`its missing, and if i install libs gcc cant find them`
`13:26.51`	`Demind`	`but I have big problems with xlibs (xcalibrate dependence)`
`13:27.26`	`jopk`	`or can someone compile a package for me?`
`13:27.33`	`emsyr`	`Demind: what problem?`
`13:27.45`	`Demind`	`Xlibs complains about libc version and libdl if I remember well and I can't believe I have to recompile the whole thing...A device with a touchscreen must have a calibration utility usable^^`
`13:27.53`	`*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.96.184)`
`13:28.03`	`Demind`	`I pastebin it and then give you the link give me 1 min`
`13:28.38`	`Demind`	`http://pastebin.com/m28d21027`
`13:28.54`	`*** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-088-065-121-116.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`13:29.00`	`Demind`	`This happens even if i try to connect via ssh with X redirection`
`13:29.10`	`Demind`	`because is a problem of xlibs of course`
`13:29.11`	`Demind`	`;)`
`13:31.43`	`*** join/#openmoko jonsmith1982 (n=jon@82-38-88-58.cable.ubr01.donc.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`13:33.06`	`*** join/#openmoko Fale (n=Fale@89-96-108-175.ip12.fastwebnet.it)`
`13:33.31`	`Demind`	`emsyr: no hints?`
`13:35.37`	`*** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@62.57.51.143.dyn.user.ono.com)`
`13:35.48`	`emsyr`	`Demind: for the moment...`
`13:37.01`	`Demind`	`I believe that someone could have tried to calibrate the touchscreen before me^^`
`13:38.27`	`*** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD46724.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`13:39.01`	`emsyr`	`Demind: whould you like to try this one : http://handhelds.org/packages/xcalibrate/ ?`
`13:39.16`	`emsyr`	`It seems to be a different tool`
`13:40.18`	`Demind`	`mmh`
`13:40.43`	`Demind`	`I'll be back in some minutes after having tried it thanks`
`13:41.52`	`emsyr`	`Demind: Have you seen this?`
`13:41.58`	`emsyr`	`As of August 2007, it is typically included in the Openmoko root filesystem, but does not appear in the graphical menus. You can run it from an ssh or GTKTerm2 command line.`
`13:42.18`	`Demind`	`yeah...I don't have it`
`13:42.31`	`Demind`	`I only have xtscal`
`13:42.37`	`Demind`	`that gives me:`
`13:42.41`	`emsyr`	`OK.`
`13:43.07`	`Demind`	`XCALIBRATE extension missing:`
`13:44.06`	`Demind`	`ah ok emsyr..it's the same package I tried before`
`13:44.12`	`Demind`	`it needs xlibs as a dependence`
`13:44.21`	`Demind`	`and then It gives that error`
`13:44.23`	`Demind`	`:(`
`13:49.28`	`*** join/#openmoko RedFlash (n=RedFlash@host122-109-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`13:50.13`	`emsyr`	`Demind: can't find something else for the moment.`
`13:50.55`	`emsyr`	`I'll try it in my FR and we'll talk to each other again.`
`13:51.44`	`Demind`	`thanks a lot`
`13:52.13`	`jopk`	`ok... finally got my package compiled ... now it wants to open sound device "/dev/dsp" but can't find it... where is the sound device on the freerunner?`
`13:52.30`	`Wonka`	`alsa.`
`13:52.43`	`jopk`	`just alsa?`
`13:52.50`	`Wonka`	`modprobe snd-pcm-oss`
`13:53.10`	`Wonka`	`to load compatibility module`
`13:54.55`	`*** join/#openmoko ^wd^ (n=wd@82.119.147.190)`
`13:55.15`	`jopk`	`Wonka: it sais "/dev/dsp: Device or resource busy" ... :(`
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`13:57.00`	`Wonka`	`sorry, no idea currently`
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`14:51.07`	`HauDyr`	`HEY! i have just searched on google and it says that all the resulting pages is infested with malware (just try to search for "puppies") :-)`
`14:51.31`	`PaulFertser`	`HauDyr: internet sucks`
`14:51.49`	`HauDyr`	`lol`
`14:53.39`	`SM2k`	`HauDyr: interestingly you're right. cute little buggers, those pups.`
`14:54.10`	`*** join/#openmoko mirko-paroli_ (n=mirko@100.192.216.81.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net)`
`14:55.27`	`HauDyr`	`SM2k, its probably those puppy sites that infest all computers :-)`
`14:55.49`	`SM2k`	`clearly when cute puppies get involved, no good can come from it`
`14:56.28`	`SM2k`	`oh that's fresh. follow one of the links`
`14:56.40`	`SM2k`	`then click on the Safe Browsing diagnostic page link`
`14:57.24`	`*** join/#openmoko emacsian2 (n=ram@122.167.96.184)`
`14:59.25`	`kW`	`HauDyr: same for me`
`14:59.35`	`*** join/#openmoko tomer (n=tomer@89-138-17-229.bb.netvision.net.il)`
`15:01.42`	`*** join/#openmoko RedFlash (n=RedFlash@host122-109-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
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`15:06.34`	`zedstar`	`anyone boot an shr-lite-image? is it meant to be a console based image?`
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`15:15.53`	`kW`	`HauDyr: it is fixed`
`15:16.21`	`SM2k`	`kW: not from here :-)`
`15:16.32`	`*** join/#openmoko mirko-paroli_ (n=mirko@100.192.216.81.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net)`
`15:17.27`	`kW`	`SM2k: well, the probability to get the bug has dropped below 100%`
`15:17.48`	`SM2k`	`aye`
`15:17.51`	`kW`	`it looks like some datacenters still need a restart or something...`
`15:18.16`	`SM2k`	`so how many ppl just got fired? :-)`
`15:20.05`	`SM2k`	`it was my fault. I accidentally put the internet into the trash`
`15:21.18`	`zedstar`	`did someone type google into google and break the internet?`
`15:22.30`	`Zic`	`zedstar: yes, it's a known bug now`
`15:23.46`	`zedstar`	`amazing how robust it is when it is only a little black box http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5b_ee3XYAI`
`15:25.04`	`*** join/#openmoko doxy2 (n=velli@cs27071040.pp.htv.fi)`
`15:25.08`	`doxy2`	`hey`
`15:26.29`	`*** join/#openmoko bipak_ (n=bip@p57B86236.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`15:26.30`	`doxy2`	`i'm trying to compile a kernel to Freerunner. Fails in drivers/input/keyboard/gpio_keys.c : "error: implicit declaration of function 'gpio_to_irq'"`
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`15:32.43`	`ruskie`	`finally decides to start saving for a freerunner...`
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`16:00.04`	`xzcvczx`	`i seem to remember reading somewhere that you could get the openmoko to put the modem interface over usb in the bootloader, anyone know where the docs are for that?`
`16:01.41`	`ShellEvil`	`I'm 37% sure you can't do that.`
`16:01.58`	`ShellEvil`	`There is a way to get it to go over serial to the debug board`
`16:02.08`	`lindi-`	`xzcvczx: the source code shows that the terminal emulator patches were added to u-boot`
`16:02.30`	`lindi-`	`zedstar: check the source, ask again if you can't find it from there`
`16:04.31`	`ShellEvil`	`s/37/7/`
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`16:12.38`	`zedstar`	`lindi- actually no need to read any source found answer on http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Get%20Started`
`16:13.46`	`Dave`	`Hrmm`
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`16:22.21`	`baba_melone`	`Hi, I have connected my neo to the internet ove`
`16:22.26`	`baba_melone`	`over my computer`
`16:22.46`	`baba_melone`	`but now i cannot download files larger than 98 kb`
`16:23.10`	`ShellEvil`	`files over 98kb, or a specific file that stops at 98K?`
`16:23.28`	`baba_melone`	`or I can only download the first 98kb and then continue the downlaod via wget -c`
`16:23.34`	`baba_melone`	`every file`
`16:23.39`	`baba_melone`	`not a specific one`
`16:24.03`	`ShellEvil`	`does it continue forever - or for anohter 98k?`
`16:24.03`	`baba_melone`	`for another 98 kb`
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`16:24.20`	`baba_melone`	`os is SHR`
`16:24.21`	`ShellEvil`	`you've connected it over the USB?`
`16:24.23`	`baba_melone`	`unstable`
`16:24.28`	`baba_melone`	`flashed today`
`16:24.32`	`baba_melone`	`yes, over usb`
`16:24.44`	`ShellEvil`	`That's somewhat odd.`
`16:24.59`	`baba_melone`	`http://pastebin.com/m1b991934`
`16:25.05`	`baba_melone`	`yeah, it is`
`16:25.26`	`baba_melone`	`and because of that error I cannot install any package larger t`
`16:25.32`	`baba_melone`	`than 98 kb`
`16:25.47`	`baba_melone`	`which is very annoying`
`16:29.51`	`*** join/#openmoko amygos_ (n=amygos@adsl-ull-246-239.49-151.net24.it)`
`16:30.15`	`baba_melone`	`anyone else who can help me?`
`16:30.38`	`ShellEvil`	`what's the OS on the desktop?`
`16:30.45`	`baba_melone`	`mandriva`
`16:30.58`	`baba_melone`	`I used iptables`
`16:31.17`	`ShellEvil`	`you've not disallowed ICMP?`
`16:31.31`	`ShellEvil`	`and what happens - it stalls, you get connection terminated, ...`
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`16:37.12`	`baba_melone`	`hm`
`16:37.25`	`baba_melone`	`how can i disallow icmp`
`16:37.40`	`baba_melone`	`and i have never encountered the problem before`
`16:37.46`	`baba_melone`	`under om1008.12`
`16:37.53`	`baba_melone`	`under om2008.12`
`16:39.09`	`ShellEvil`	`No - disallowing ICMP may cause wierd symptoms - though 98K is a bit far into the file to hit them`
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`17:18.58`	`Dave`	`:o`
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`17:39.15`	`slaxxin`	`mand dagg pisa friking icestorm`
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`17:48.28`	`Dave`	`;o`
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`17:59.03`	Toaster`	`Anyone know where I can find blank svg logo template for SHR?`
`17:59.43`	`*** join/#openmoko kirun (n=kirun@78-86-154-194.zone2.bethere.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
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`18:18.34`	Toaster`	`Anyone know where I can find blank svg logo template for SHR?`
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`18:20.08`	`uhsf`	`wow, Messages stopped running unexpectedly. There was no error message. All my SMS were lost? I love my OpenMoko FreeRunner so much.`
`18:21.29`	`cjb`	`uhsf: they're stored on the SIM card.`
`18:22.46`	`uhsf`	`so how to retrieve them? SMS app is frozen.`
`18:24.24`	Toaster`	`uhsf: Was your phone connected to the network? IE: had dbus/frameworkd settled down?`
`18:26.01`	`uhsf`	`it was connected to the network. i suppose dbus/framework were fine.`
`18:26.21`	Toaster`	`And what distro are you running?`
`18:26.35`	`uhsf`	`shr`
`18:27.20`	Toaster`	`have you tried rebooting your phone? As cjb said, SMS are stored in the SIM, so they should still be there.`
`18:28.50`	`uhsf`	`ok, i just rebooted and wait for connection and messages are back`
`18:29.03`	*** join/#openmoko Toaster`_ (n=toaster@67.70.90.148)
`18:29.04`	`uhsf`	`i guess i should just reboot more often`
`18:32.20`	*** join/#openmoko Toaster` (n=toaster@67.70.90.148)
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`18:42.39`	`leachim_dot_eu`	`hi`
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`18:43.44`	`baba_melone`	`hm, there is some kinda update to my problem. the amount of data, after which the download is interrupted, varies each time I try to download a file`
`18:43.53`	`leachim_dot_eu`	`is here anybody who play cellhunter?`
`18:44.03`	`baba_melone`	`but it stays below 300 kb`
`18:44.56`	`baba_melone`	`how can I do some kind of debugging?`
`18:45.16`	`baba_melone`	`busybox's wget has no verbose option`
`18:45.16`	`PaulFertser`	`baba_melone: are you downloading from GPRS? Which distro?`
`18:45.22`	`baba_melone`	`no from usb`
`18:45.31`	`baba_melone`	`SHR`
`18:45.46`	`baba_melone`	`my desktops distro is mandriva`
`18:45.53`	`PaulFertser`	`baba_melone: no dmesg messages on both sides?`
`18:45.57`	`baba_melone`	`im using iptables to provide internet`
`18:46.26`	`baba_melone`	`mom`
`18:46.53`	`baba_melone`	`no`
`18:47.00`	`baba_melone`	`no messages on the neo`
`18:47.14`	`baba_melone`	`and none on the desktop`
`18:47.27`	`*** join/#openmoko JSmile (n=JSmile@81-86-251-117.dsl.pipex.com)`
`18:48.40`	`baba_melone`	`PaulFertser: any idea how to get some output, from wget or whatever`
`18:48.55`	`baba_melone`	`opkg just says "Error 200"`
`18:49.02`	`PaulFertser`	`baba_melone: does scp work properly? Install a full wget version then.`
`18:49.12`	`baba_melone`	`yeah`
`18:49.19`	`baba_melone`	`scp works properly`
`18:49.32`	`baba_melone`	`Ive copied ~100MB`
`18:50.06`	`baba_melone`	`and its not only wget`
`18:50.15`	`baba_melone`	`Failed to download http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/ipk//armv4t/Packages.gz, error 200`
`18:50.23`	`baba_melone`	`thats what opkg says`
`18:50.29`	`baba_melone`	`the file exists`
`18:50.35`	`baba_melone`	`but downloading it fails`
`18:50.48`	`PaulFertser`	`baba_melone: install a real wget by hand then.`
`18:51.02`	`PaulFertser`	`baba_melone: i'm out of ideas, really.`
`18:51.18`	`baba_melone`	`wget is not in the feeds`
`18:51.34`	`baba_melone`	`and I dont have any toolchain`
`18:52.56`	`*** join/#openmoko agg1n (n=agg1n@static-87-245-12-201.teleos-web.de)`
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`18:53.54`	`baba_melone`	`midori works btw`
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`19:14.42`	`mokel`	`anyone speaking finnish?`
`19:14.58`	`str4nd`	`Yes?`
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`19:26.21`	`mokel`	`argl, no one else speaking finnish?`
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`19:28.30`	`mjr`	`yes, and there's an #openmoko-fi by the way`
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`19:34.12`	`rainglasz`	`Anybody knows if there were intentions to use OPIE on the OpenMoko? Would be a possibility to have a rich running system, once the phone function are added.`
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`19:41.18`	`lindi-`	`rainglasz: one time passwords in everything? i use it`
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`19:42.05`	`rainglasz`	`lindi: sorry, I have no idea what you meant`
`19:42.50`	`lindi-`	`rainglasz: opie is an s/key system`
`19:43.30`	`lindi-`	`rainglasz: 'Use OPIE one time passwords for PAM authentication. A one time password is useful to avoid having your password sniffed and reused if you log in via an unencrypted channel or from a compromised system. The PAM module enables OPIE for programs such as SSH which use PAM for authentication.'`
`19:43.46`	`rainglasz`	`Oh no, I meant the Open Palmtop Integrated Environement, http://opie.handhelds.org`
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`19:44.49`	`rainglasz`	`lindi-: anyway, this other OPIE is indeed very interesting, will have a look. Thanks.`
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`20:32.56`	`fredrin`	`Greetings Alfa Geeks`
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`20:41.38`	`jopk`	`hi`
`20:41.47`	`root_at`	`hi, why cant i compile anything with arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-g++? i installed boost and cpp`
`20:42.34`	`jopk`	`where can I upload an ipk which I have created and I want to share, but which is not really ready (for testing only)`
`20:43.49`	`root_at`	`jopk, may you share it here?`
`20:43.58`	`jopk`	`how?`
`20:44.08`	`jopk`	`root_at, yes`
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`20:44.46`	`root_at`	`jopk, whats is? maybe i will try it out`
`20:45.22`	`jopk`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTick`
`20:47.45`	`root_at`	`where can i find the ipk?`
`20:47.47`	`jopk`	`I've created a package more or less by change (my first package), I don't even no how to make sure that all dependeces are satified :) but it worked for me.`
`20:48.02`	`jopk`	`I want to upload it ... and I don't know where`
`20:49.07`	`root_at`	`for the moment you could upload it on any filehoster...i think this would be enough to share it here`
`20:50.08`	`jopk`	`can you recommend one?`
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`20:51.40`	`root_at`	`jopk, maybe rapidshare? i dont know much english filehoster`
`20:53.58`	`jopk`	`root_at: http://www.file-upload.net/download-1421594/gtick-0.4.2_0.1_armv4t.ipk.html`
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`20:54.32`	`lindi-`	`rainglasz: but yes opie tools would be useful on FR too`
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`21:03.11`	`root_at`	`jopk, it doesnt request libsndfile`
`21:04.41`	`jopk`	`root_at, so it depends on libsndfile, right?`
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`21:05.14`	`root_at`	`yes, but when i installed it, it doesnt install libsndfile`
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`21:05.50`	`jopk`	`ok, I don't know how to fix this yet ...`
`21:07.40`	`root_at`	`i think you can look it up in the om wiki::toolchain`
`21:08.00`	`root_at`	`i will install libsndfile after i ate, and try gtick`
`21:09.13`	`jopk`	`k`
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`23:19.18`	`thomasg`	`my microSD is not recognized and I'm getting "mmc0: error -110 whilst initialising SD card" in dmesg. the SD is working fine on my PC - is the neo broken or what could be the reason? tried different kernel builds, 2.6.24 and 2.6.28`
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`23:42.53`	`root_at`	`thomasg, did the card work once?`
`23:42.59`	`thomasg`	`yes`
`23:43.34`	`root_at`	`thomasg, tried to fdisk it again?`
`23:43.48`	`thomasg`	`you can't fdisk anything that's not there`
`23:44.01`	`root_at`	`but you said its working on your pc?`
`23:44.01`	`thomasg`	`and from my PC it's freshly formatted`
`23:44.14`	`root_at`	`ahh ok..then i am sorry, if it worked once its seldom`
`23:44.14`	`thomasg`	`and partitionoed`
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