| 00:00.58 | almien | rooly: they are 2MB/sec |
| 00:03.38 | rooly | impossible |
| 00:03.45 | rooly | a 56k dialup modem? |
| 00:04.27 | gurugentoo | heck ya |
| 00:04.44 | gurugentoo | no idea why wore people don't use dialup |
| 00:04.52 | rooly | if thats the case, shit, i'm going back to dialup |
| 00:05.23 | gurugentoo | I hope you realize I'm joking |
| 00:05.32 | rooly | oh, i know you are |
| 00:05.38 | rooly | i'm not so sure about almien tho |
| 00:05.51 | gurugentoo | making sure |
| 00:05.53 | gurugentoo | hehe |
| 00:06.02 | rooly | gawd i'm bored |
| 00:06.31 | rooly | see, its due to the fact that there's this hot chick i know that i'd much rather be spending time with than you losers. |
| 00:06.41 | rooly | nothing against you guys...its just yall aren't hot chicks |
| 00:06.50 | gurugentoo | make cpu freq scaling work on my FR? |
| 00:06.58 | gurugentoo | sounds pretty sexy to me |
| 00:07.07 | rooly | yeah, totally |
| 00:07.24 | rooly | an ass outta dis world |
| 00:07.35 | rooly | i never really paid attention to anything other than the face until now |
| 00:07.38 | rooly | i mean dayum |
| 00:07.40 | rooly | but whatever |
| 00:07.49 | rooly | im sure i've given somebody in here a hardon already |
| 00:07.53 | rooly | so i shall be quiet |
| 00:09.36 | almien | rooly:me? I'm just reading the OFCOM report that says everyone in UK was lied-to about the speed of their internet connection... |
| 00:09.42 | *** join/#openmoko Failrar (n=Failrar@fsm.xs4all.nl) |
| 00:09.52 | rooly | oh |
| 00:10.09 | rooly | laughs at that |
| 00:10.34 | *** join/#openmoko Slaxxer (n=brian@ip72-204-125-6.fv.ks.cox.net) |
| 00:10.44 | rooly | i'm glad i live in the US and can trust my isp's to be honest about their data throughput speeds |
| 00:11.18 | rooly | is flashing the shit out of his FR |
| 00:11.24 | rooly | ya know...since i don't need to make phone calls anymore |
| 00:11.41 | rooly | is just gonna use it for pre-pay internet usage |
| 00:11.45 | gurugentoo | 1Mb/s for $25/month...I hate isp's |
| 00:12.08 | rooly | with a usage cap too, right? |
| 00:12.14 | rooly | laughs again |
| 00:12.19 | rooly | cries inside as well... |
| 00:12.21 | rooly | bbl |
| 00:12.23 | rooly | food time |
| 00:12.33 | gurugentoo | no cap that I know of |
| 00:12.41 | gurugentoo | haven't reached it at least |
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| 00:31.52 | Slaxxer | wathell |
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| 00:54.15 | Digital-Pioneer | So, who's gonna buy me a bluetooth? :) |
| 00:55.34 | jc | Digital-Pioneer: pull one out of your mouth and paint it blue :D |
| 00:55.42 | jc | open source, bitch :D |
| 00:55.54 | tordo | i have a holey tooth you can get |
| 00:55.59 | jc | lol |
| 00:56.06 | jc | a diy bluetooth |
| 00:56.20 | Digital-Pioneer | jc: Yeah, the noise cancelling on those is absolute CRAP though. |
| 00:56.58 | Digital-Pioneer | I'd rather get the real deal, and have it work. :) |
| 00:56.59 | tordo | nah, mine gives a nice, clean signal of pain just about constantly |
| 00:56.59 | rooly | sighs |
| 00:56.59 | tordo | should be no problem to filter out |
| 00:57.09 | rooly | lol |
| 00:57.20 | jc | tordo: might wanna add a cappacitor there |
| 00:57.22 | *** join/#openmoko bipak_ (n=bip@p57B86EE2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:58.40 | tordo | yeah maybe |
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| 01:00.34 | *** part/#openmoko veranazogirl (n=qwerty@78.28.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 01:11.09 | almien | rooly: was it 2KB/s not 2MB/s? I might have blanked-out the memory of that factor-of-1024 difference between very slow (expensive) and ridiculously slow (less expensive) |
| 01:11.58 | *** join/#openmoko loca|host (n=tux@41.226.221.71) |
| 01:12.41 | rooly | lol |
| 01:12.49 | rooly | it might have been, almien |
| 01:14.16 | almien | nowadays it's much better; you get a maximum bandwidth approximately 30% of what they claimed in the advert |
| 01:14.42 | *** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@i59F7493A.versanet.de) |
| 01:15.02 | rooly | god i love this list |
| 01:15.02 | rooly | http://artlung.com/smorgasborg/how_to_tick_people_off.shtml |
| 01:17.45 | jc | ;p; |
| 01:17.47 | jc | lol |
| 01:17.49 | *** join/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@85.93.174.26) |
| 01:19.44 | henk | jc: i'd use <pre> </pre> i guess |
| 01:20.06 | jc | henk: welcome back ;) |
| 01:20.15 | jc | henk: I already added it, you can have a look ;) |
| 01:20.15 | henk | jc: thanks :) |
| 01:20.20 | henk | ok |
| 01:20.53 | jc | henk: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_Freerunner#Alternative:_using_nandwrite |
| 01:21.34 | *** join/#openmoko gurugentoo (n=narf@adsl-70-240-100-180.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 01:22.39 | henk | jc: thanks, i'm already looking at the diff... |
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| 01:27.20 | henk | whats the 'factory' partition (mtd5) for? |
| 01:27.49 | jc | henk: dunno, maybe u-boot environment |
| 01:27.56 | henk | no, thats u-boot_env |
| 01:28.04 | *** join/#openmoko dagger (n=dagger@piasek.co.uk) |
| 01:28.05 | jc | a default uboot environment |
| 01:28.58 | henk | hm, bt, wlan and usb ids/macs, imei and serial number in ascii files.... |
| 01:34.29 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@24-138-98-125.zing-net.ca) |
| 01:35.00 | rooly | is bored |
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| 01:58.53 | Digital-Pioneer | So, is there a way to initiate an SSH session over bluetooth from my Freerunner to my Linux-enabled laptop without having to run any commands on the laptop to listen for the BT connection? I'd rather if I could just do the whole connection from the FR. |
| 02:00.43 | SpeedEvil | pretty fundamentally only if the laptop is listening to BT +BNEP and has ssh listening |
| 02:01.13 | Digital-Pioneer | Well, I can do it, but I have to run several commands on both the FR and the laptop to do it. |
| 02:02.16 | Digital-Pioneer | Have to do some messing with pand and ifconfig |
| 02:02.18 | SpeedEvil | of course |
| 02:02.43 | SpeedEvil | set it up on laptop so it always runs |
| 02:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko Sharwin_F (n=Sharwin_@116.pool85-50-73.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 02:03.21 | Digital-Pioneer | But until I have an actual connection, bnep0 doesn't exist and I can't ifconfig it. |
| 02:04.25 | SpeedEvil | so script scanning bt regularly or something |
| 02:05.02 | Digital-Pioneer | But there's no (in-place) way to have it just accept and autoconfigure the connection when the FR comes a-calling? :P |
| 02:05.20 | SpeedEvil | i have no idea what your OS may do |
| 02:05.54 | Digital-Pioneer | For the most part it does whatever I tell it to. ;) |
| 02:06.32 | SpeedEvil | so tell it to do what you want. |
| 02:07.11 | Digital-Pioneer | Yes, and the question is how. :) |
| 02:08.50 | SpeedEvil | drops the python, bash, gcc manuals on Digital-Pioneers head. |
| 02:08.51 | mwester-laptop | Digital-Pioneer: The answer depends almost entirely on your host distro and release level; you'll have to google for how to set it up. (the bluez people don't seem to care about compatibility or consistency very much) |
| 02:09.10 | Digital-Pioneer | Heheheh |
| 02:09.34 | mwester-laptop | It should be pretty simple with no scripting of any significance on the laptop side; the Om side will require a bit of work. |
| 02:09.40 | Digital-Pioneer | gives SpeedEvil back his manuals grumbling about man not being installed on the FR. :P |
| 02:10.18 | Digital-Pioneer | Well, I'm all for scripting as long as I only have to run commands on one system when I need to activate the connection. |
| 02:10.23 | mwester-laptop | had his gta01 autoconnecting over bt to an NSLU2 running SlugOS with a bridged BT configuration. |
| 02:13.36 | rooly | laughs at himself |
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| 02:24.47 | Toaster` | General question. Is wifi at all more stable on SHR or with FSO? Or is it still an issue of major tweaking (outside of wpa_suplicant.conf, of course) |
| 02:25.21 | Toaster` | And I mean SHR/FSO in comparison to 2008.X |
| 02:54.49 | *** join/#openmoko dns53 (n=dns@ppp246-215.static.internode.on.net) |
| 02:56.16 | gurugentoo | Toaster`: using wpa_supplicant, I can connect to all of the networks I have available, what do you mean outside of wpa_supplicant? |
| 02:56.45 | gurugentoo | (on shr-unstable) |
| 02:57.26 | gurugentoo | I'm not seeing any stability problems |
| 03:06.32 | rooly | bored bored bored |
| 03:11.38 | Toaster` | gurugentoo: sorry for the delay. Well I think have my wpa_supplicant set up right (wpa_passphrasse and all that) but I can't connect to my WPA AP. |
| 03:13.00 | khaije1 | you guys seen this: http://www.wired.com/video/neo-freerunner/1813637570 |
| 03:13.15 | khaije1 | from a few months ago |
| 03:13.21 | khaije1 | (sept) |
| 03:15.39 | rooly | not sure, khaije1 |
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| 03:20.07 | Digital-Pioneer | OK, how do I turn bluetooth on so I can see a node with hciconfig -a? |
| 03:20.28 | *** join/#openmoko Slaxxer (n=brian@ip72-204-125-6.fv.ks.cox.net) |
| 03:20.45 | Slaxxer | wassa |
| 03:21.32 | rooly | nm |
| 03:21.35 | rooly | just BORED OUT OF MY MIND |
| 03:21.37 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-4-123.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 03:21.43 | rooly | i'm so bored that i installed om2008.12 |
| 03:21.51 | rooly | since...i have a phone and all now... |
| 03:22.09 | rooly | and to think...2008.12 actually seems to be a reliable phone |
| 03:22.14 | rooly | it can do all the things i want |
| 03:22.33 | rooly | make phone calls, receive them, send and recieve sms, and even do speaker phone |
| 03:22.41 | rooly | now i just gotta get gprs working |
| 03:24.16 | rooly | and a bluetooth keyboard thingy |
| 03:24.28 | Slaxxer | told u |
| 03:24.41 | rooly | no you didn't |
| 03:24.48 | Slaxxer | huh uh |
| 03:25.12 | Slaxxer | u wouldnt let go though |
| 03:25.20 | Slaxxer | devoted |
| 03:25.30 | Kamping_Kaiser | rooly, what were you running? |
| 03:25.36 | rooly | qt 4.3.2 |
| 03:25.37 | Slaxxer | shr works better than .12 |
| 03:25.40 | rooly | which i prefer |
| 03:25.52 | rooly | because...its...finished |
| 03:26.00 | Slaxxer | almost |
| 03:26.11 | rooly | yeah |
| 03:26.14 | rooly | moreso than asu |
| 03:26.30 | rooly | which, mind you, is going to be dropped sooner or later in favor of something fso-based |
| 03:26.33 | Slaxxer | can i boot through usb cable on a microsd card reader? |
| 03:27.02 | Slaxxer | i made a cable |
| 03:27.22 | rooly | iunno |
| 03:27.52 | mwester-laptop | No. |
| 03:27.57 | Slaxxer | ok |
| 03:28.23 | mwester-laptop | neither u-boot nor Qi support mass storage on USB. |
| 03:28.24 | rooly | where was that bluetooth app that let you connect a bt keyboard to asu |
| 03:28.35 | Slaxxer | can i read an microsd card throung that cable? |
| 03:29.10 | Slaxxer | should be able to do that? |
| 03:29.22 | Kamping_Kaiser | is the USB on a freerunner a usb host? |
| 03:29.30 | henk | Kamping_Kaiser: it can be |
| 03:29.31 | rooly | it ccan be set to host mode |
| 03:29.37 | Kamping_Kaiser | sweeeet. |
| 03:29.38 | rooly | but not by default |
| 03:29.42 | Kamping_Kaiser | thanks blokes. |
| 03:29.57 | rooly | check opkg.org for a useful app regarding usb host-mode |
| 03:29.59 | mwester-laptop | You can do that, but you have to follow the wiki to put the usb in host mode and have the correct usb/scsi driver modules loaded. |
| 03:30.15 | Slaxxer | then a usb keyboard is usable long as u dont use a lighted one? |
| 03:30.44 | rooly | theoretically, the FR's usb can output enough to power another FR for a short while |
| 03:30.58 | mwester-laptop | It's supposed to work, people have done it. No guarantee that any particular distro can gracefully handle that, though... |
| 03:31.00 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-23-79.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 03:31.01 | rooly | so it should be able to power even a lit usb keyboard |
| 03:31.18 | Slaxxer | not very long |
| 03:31.35 | Slaxxer | unless u build a y cable |
| 03:31.46 | mwester-laptop | that's the way to do it. |
| 03:31.52 | mwester-laptop | or use a powered hub. |
| 03:33.08 | rooly | mwester-laptop: was the wifi management in exposure so broken that they just HAD to take it out? |
| 03:33.16 | Dave | hey rooly |
| 03:33.21 | rooly | yo dave |
| 03:33.24 | rooly | still here? |
| 03:33.25 | Dave | oh and rooly, I've done that |
| 03:33.34 | rooly | done what |
| 03:33.36 | mwester-laptop | rooly: don't know what/why. |
| 03:33.39 | Dave | the freerunner-freerunner kinkiness |
| 03:33.43 | Dave | over usb |
| 03:33.44 | rooly | oh...sexy |
| 03:33.47 | Dave | uhh yeah |
| 03:33.48 | rooly | did you video it? |
| 03:33.53 | Dave | haha no |
| 03:33.56 | rooly | dude |
| 03:33.56 | Dave | Maybe I should have... |
| 03:33.58 | rooly | tits or gtfo |
| 03:34.05 | Slaxxer | where are the little mokos at? |
| 03:34.07 | mwester-laptop | Dave plugs freerunners into many unusual things -- stereos even. |
| 03:34.22 | Dave | Hey :( |
| 03:34.35 | Dave | Are you going to mock me for that for the rest of my days, Wester? ;) |
| 03:34.40 | mwester-laptop | yep! :P |
| 03:34.42 | Dave | Though, it was pretty funny |
| 03:34.51 | Dave | Though scared the crap out of me when something popped |
| 03:34.51 | rooly | whats this about a stereo |
| 03:34.57 | Dave | hides |
| 03:35.10 | Slaxxer | sound? |
| 03:35.30 | Slaxxer | did it fry the stero too? |
| 03:35.44 | rooly | still finds his favorite apps to be openvibe and openmoocow |
| 03:36.03 | Slaxxer | openly share dave |
| 03:36.05 | Dave | rooly, then you'll appreciate my omc2 :) |
| 03:36.15 | Dave | When I get around to releasing |
| 03:36.21 | rooly | thats yours? |
| 03:36.28 | Dave | No, but it was inspired by me. |
| 03:36.49 | rooly | noticed dillo-ssl was put into opkg.org |
| 03:36.50 | rooly | nice |
| 03:36.56 | Dave | yep! |
| 03:38.27 | rooly | so |
| 03:38.28 | rooly | zomg |
| 03:38.30 | rooly | whats that about |
| 03:39.43 | Slaxxer | i tried it |
| 03:40.09 | Slaxxer | fat software |
| 03:40.44 | rooly | well, of course |
| 03:40.48 | rooly | its java after all |
| 03:40.52 | Slaxxer | is dillo the better browser? |
| 03:41.24 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-17-9.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 03:41.28 | rooly | dillo is to fast as sun is to hot |
| 03:41.41 | Slaxxer | yay |
| 03:42.35 | rooly | but |
| 03:42.38 | rooly | dillo has its problems |
| 03:43.36 | mwester-laptop | but -- does it run on android? |
| 03:44.05 | mwester-laptop | goes trolling ;) |
| 03:44.31 | rooly | no, of course not |
| 03:44.33 | jc | I have some radical numbers for you |
| 03:44.44 | rooly | i have some irrational numbers for you! |
| 03:44.49 | raster | slaps mwester-laptop with a cybord |
| 03:44.50 | raster | slaps mwester-laptop with a cyborg |
| 03:45.12 | jc | compiling busybox for thumb decreases its code size by 26% as opposed to arm |
| 03:45.19 | mwester-laptop | sends raster some more electric sheep to count. |
| 03:45.30 | jc | also, compilling a hello world and counting its main function, its about 57% improvement |
| 03:45.46 | jc | interested in more details ? |
| 03:45.47 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-198-242.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 03:45.54 | raster | jc: but does it blend? |
| 03:45.55 | mwester-laptop | jc: Yeah - does it work? |
| 03:46.08 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.78.178.63) |
| 03:46.10 | raster | counts -1 sheep |
| 03:46.11 | jc | we were working on it for about 2 hours on #gentoo-openmoko |
| 03:46.14 | jc | great deal of fun |
| 03:46.15 | jc | facts: |
| 03:46.18 | jc | lets see the hello world |
| 03:46.21 | mwester-laptop | can get 100% size decrease, if you don't mind that the resulting binary doesn't actually run! |
| 03:46.33 | raster | jc: even if code is smaller |
| 03:46.35 | raster | is it faster |
| 03:46.36 | jc | I have a simple program: |
| 03:46.39 | raster | ios it stable |
| 03:46.40 | raster | ... |
| 03:46.42 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:46.42 | jc | #include <stdio.h> |
| 03:46.42 | jc | int main(void) |
| 03:46.42 | jc | { |
| 03:46.42 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:46.43 | jc | } |
| 03:47.00 | raster | as such it really is just a compile optinj so its kind of moot other than playing with |
| 03:47.04 | jc | then I do: |
| 03:47.05 | jc | gcc -mthumb -o hello-thumb.o hello.c |
| 03:47.08 | jc | then: |
| 03:47.19 | jc | gcc -marm -o hello-arm.o hello.c |
| 03:47.34 | jc | then I strip them both |
| 03:47.35 | raster | umm |
| 03:47.42 | raster | why the .o? |
| 03:47.47 | jc | ls shows no difference at all |
| 03:47.53 | raster | u produced an actual executable |
| 03:47.58 | jc | but thats probably just cuz theyr padded |
| 03:47.59 | raster | making it a .o.. is misleading |
| 03:48.00 | raster | :) |
| 03:48.02 | jc | lets see disassembly |
| 03:48.04 | jc | the good part |
| 03:48.07 | jc | main function |
| 03:48.09 | raster | no ls will just round up |
| 03:48.18 | raster | and the fs will show # of blocks |
| 03:48.25 | raster | use stat and u'll get real size |
| 03:48.40 | jc | oh crap, i stripped them |
| 03:48.58 | jc | raster: I was comparing size in bytes |
| 03:48.59 | *** join/#openmoko bembel (n=bembel@mail.heinzigartig.de) |
| 03:49.14 | raster | not incredibly useful |
| 03:49.25 | jc | moving on |
| 03:49.25 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.27 | raster | speed |
| 03:49.29 | jc | guess which is which |
| 03:49.30 | jc | 000083d4 <main>: |
| 03:49.30 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.30 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.30 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.30 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.32 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.34 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.36 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.38 | raster | in fact speed is probably your biggest factor to worry about |
| 03:49.41 | jc | 000083d8 <main>: |
| 03:49.42 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.42 | raster | it is at least the same? |
| 03:49.44 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.46 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.48 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.50 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.52 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.54 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.56 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.56 | mwester-laptop | Actually the OE folks have been working on making thumb available for some images; the end figures are less dramatic for real-world code, but it works for most packages. |
| 03:49.59 | *** part/#openmoko bembel (n=bembel@mail.heinzigartig.de) |
| 03:50.00 | jc | which is thumb of these two? ;) |
| 03:50.08 | jc | first one is arm, second one is thumb |
| 03:50.18 | jc | it would SEEM the thumb one is bigger |
| 03:50.22 | jc | but look at the middle paragraph |
| 03:50.26 | jc | those are the actual bytes |
| 03:50.34 | jc | lets count them |
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| 03:51.14 | jc | I see I was off before |
| 03:51.23 | jc | arm one has 28, am I counting correctly ? |
| 03:51.59 | jc | thumb one has 20 |
| 03:52.04 | jc | yeah that seems more like it |
| 03:52.06 | jc | so it was less |
| 03:52.18 | jc | way less |
| 03:52.22 | jc | but still its faster |
| 03:52.46 | jc | sdram has 16 bit data bus afaik |
| 03:52.56 | jc | that means one memory cycle per one thumb instruction |
| 03:53.02 | jc | (most instructions) |
| 03:53.22 | jc | lets see busybox then |
| 03:53.40 | raster | get some meaningful benchmarks |
| 03:53.42 | jc | arm is 826524 |
| 03:53.50 | jc | thumb is 613532 |
| 03:53.59 | jc | I can't *run* the thumb one, it segfaults |
| 03:54.05 | raster | HAHAHAHAHAHHAA |
| 03:54.12 | jc | thats cuz of a bad choice of ABI in the current gentoo stage3 image |
| 03:54.13 | raster | hi-5's mwester-laptop |
| 03:54.25 | raster | small.. but doesnt work |
| 03:54.26 | raster | :) |
| 03:54.34 | jc | whatever |
| 03:54.43 | Slaxxer | lol |
| 03:54.46 | jc | live happily ever after with your arm blobs :0 |
| 03:54.47 | jc | :) |
| 03:55.01 | raster | my working arm blobs |
| 03:55.03 | raster | :) |
| 03:55.12 | jc | our thumb ones will be working soon too |
| 03:55.14 | jc | on gentoo |
| 03:55.31 | Slaxxer | might be 27% faster |
| 03:55.34 | jc | we need to bootstrap everything from stage1 to be aapcs abi |
| 03:55.47 | jc | and a lot smaller, thats for sure |
| 03:55.54 | jc | aapcs allows mixing arm and thumb |
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| 03:56.30 | jc | so packages that have for example some assembly optimizations and are not thumb aware can be still compiled as arm and run properly |
| 03:56.36 | jc | I'm thinking mplayer, ffmpeg and such |
| 03:57.32 | raster | reminds me.. need to build all the dev tools |
| 03:57.39 | raster | time to do some neon mojo |
| 03:57.53 | mwester-laptop | jc: thumb works; if you poke around the dev branch in the OE repo you should be able to figure out what packages it doesn't yet work with. I thought someone got it working with busybox. |
| 03:58.20 | jc | I'm talking about gentoo |
| 03:58.29 | mwester-laptop | I realize that. |
| 03:58.34 | jc | there it should work regardless of patches |
| 03:58.40 | jc | its just about cflags... |
| 03:58.49 | mwester-laptop | But I thought that perhaps you might like to not have to re-invent the wheel, is all. |
| 03:59.08 | jc | do you use softfloat at least ? |
| 03:59.15 | mwester-laptop | And, no, it's not about cflags -- it's about packages that (for example) use inline assembly. |
| 03:59.16 | raster | mwester-laptop: it's gentoo - they like to do things the hard way. :) it's part of the charm of gentoo |
| 03:59.20 | raster | :) |
| 03:59.35 | raster | like wait 2 days for their os to install as it's busy building itself |
| 03:59.36 | raster | :) |
| 03:59.48 | raster | to each - their own |
| 03:59.51 | mwester-laptop | There are some that just don't work, and IIRC it might be bugs in the toolchain. |
| 03:59.55 | jc | raster: yeah we like it the hard way, reinventing the wheel |
| 04:00.01 | mwester-laptop | And there are some that just don't seem to perform correctly. |
| 04:00.05 | jc | raster: like writing our own windows managers and widget toolkits |
| 04:00.10 | rooly | snickers |
| 04:00.29 | jc | oh what the hell anyway, I'll just keep it to myself |
| 04:00.58 | mwester-laptop | If you can figure out what others have done, perhaps you can focus on the problem code, and get that working. |
| 04:01.05 | mwester-laptop | but what do I know? |
| 04:01.27 | jc | point being |
| 04:01.32 | raster | jc: i am not favorable to gentoo users. they have become one of the biggest pains i have experienced as a developer. sorry to say |
| 04:01.37 | jc | packages that don't work in thumb can be still compiled as arm |
| 04:01.47 | mwester-laptop | Exactly. That's what OE has done. |
| 04:01.56 | raster | like "i need hels0rz! my buildz i5 b0rk3n! helps!" |
| 04:02.02 | raster | when they just go "emerge BLAH" |
| 04:02.09 | raster | and come running to the upsteram developers for help |
| 04:02.24 | raster | as they think they are eleet and are so cool because they compile their stuff |
| 04:02.28 | jc | raster: the same thing I see with ubuntu people on #gentoo |
| 04:02.31 | raster | but they havent the first clue when somethnig goes wrong |
| 04:02.49 | rooly | likes messing around with compiling |
| 04:02.56 | rooly | but only when its worthwhile |
| 04:02.59 | mwester-laptop | removes raster from his "auto-ignore-hax0rz" list... |
| 04:03.01 | raster | they prefer to pastebin compiler output and have the developers read it for them and say "see that line theree "error - blah.h not found... maybe thats the problem?" |
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| 04:03.06 | rooly | as in, not compiling my os for myself |
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| 04:03.17 | jc | raster: whell do you think I did this to show how l33t am I ? |
| 04:03.25 | raster | no |
| 04:03.51 | raster | but i did accurately state that genoo does things the hard way |
| 04:04.04 | raster | that is is how they like to do it |
| 04:04.09 | raster | they WANT to compile things |
| 04:04.11 | jc | I haven't seen a single bitching haxor wannabe from the gentoo community as you describe, but many ubuntu ones |
| 04:04.15 | balleyne | question about Masquering support for connecting to the internet through a PC via USB. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Masquerading_support talks about where the options are "found" but I've no idea where to find them... where should I be looking? |
| 04:04.17 | raster | they all keep saing "i am using gentoo to learn about linux" |
| 04:04.19 | jc | maybe its given by different environment |
| 04:04.24 | raster | its accurate - its what they WANT |
| 04:04.42 | raster | but of course - you want to have a go at me for being a software developer and writing code that gosh.. may COMPETe with other software |
| 04:04.51 | jc | raster: but gentoo does simplify compilling a lot |
| 04:05.09 | jc | you just tweak a few stuff and you have binaries with support only for stuff you actually need |
| 04:05.30 | raster | as i havent gone and just decided to never write anythgni because sosmoene did something vaguely similar somewhere else (whihc is completely wrong - if u knew anything about e - it bears very little similarity to almost anything and has reasons for being done) |
| 04:05.41 | mwester-laptop | balleyne: that's your kernel config, in the event that your distro has a kernel that is missing that stuff. |
| 04:05.55 | raster | so dont mind me while i now have a good go at gentoo. |
| 04:06.05 | mwester-laptop | Most distros have iptables and all that already built-in or installable via kernel modules. |
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| 04:06.20 | jc | I don't know squat about e |
| 04:06.42 | jc | only thing I heard about its philosophy is its supposed to be eyecandy somehow |
| 04:07.08 | raster | ok - so let's agree - i know more about gentoo than you do of e :) |
| 04:07.25 | jc | thats probably true |
| 04:07.31 | mwester-laptop | things thumb is quite promising, but thinks that its counter-productive to have two different communities not cooperating on sorting out the last issues with thumb mode. |
| 04:07.41 | jc | you definitely know more about e than I do |
| 04:07.47 | raster | and if you want to have a go at me for writing software and giving it away for free with no strings attached - then you'll very likely have me have a go at you |
| 04:07.49 | balleyne | mwester-laptop: ok, thanks. turns out I just needed to run some iptables commands |
| 04:07.51 | jc | so I guess you have your good reasons |
| 04:07.53 | rooly | he better sure as hell know more... |
| 04:08.10 | raster | and i've been helping gentoo users read their compiler output for many many many years |
| 04:08.24 | jc | rooly: I know he develops it, my point |
| 04:08.26 | raster | i have respect for gentoo devs |
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| 04:08.29 | raster | its hardy work |
| 04:08.31 | raster | vapier is amazing |
| 04:08.36 | raster | err hard work |
| 04:08.47 | jc | I think I remember him from our lists |
| 04:09.03 | raster | its a hard job to keep up with all the devs out there |
| 04:09.13 | mwester-laptop | it might be hardy work too, if it can handle the colder growing zones ;) |
| 04:09.16 | raster | i have talked with him often |
| 04:09.20 | raster | he knows his stuff |
| 04:09.24 | jc | I don't do much help usually, so I'm pretty happy that I came with something possibly radically enhancing experience on fr |
| 04:09.42 | raster | thats cool |
| 04:09.45 | jc | and here we go again.. somebody already came up with it |
| 04:09.47 | raster | but dont get so excited about it |
| 04:09.50 | jc | even though its not mainstream |
| 04:10.00 | raster | i have learnt in the past |
| 04:10.14 | raster | compiler options will almost always - in the real world, net you very small changes/gains |
| 04:10.34 | raster | you can sit and argue over -O3 vs -O2 vs -Os vs -funroll-loops etc. |
| 04:10.38 | mwester-laptop | thumb has more promise than most, though. |
| 04:10.46 | jc | well arm has two instruction sets, this is picking one over the othetr |
| 04:10.52 | jc | a HUGE difference |
| 04:10.59 | jc | maybe for good, maybe for baad |
| 04:11.16 | jc | smaller instructions but possibly more of them |
| 04:11.16 | raster | but in the end there is normally a very simple judiciously used set that are probably universal (to a given target) |
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| 04:11.33 | jc | I proved that busybox is smaller when in thumb than in arm.. so the 'smaller' factor is more significant than the 'more of them' factor |
| 04:11.38 | raster | and most other stuff is quibbling over a few % - unless you literally go upsteram and fix algorithms.. or work on some inner-loop magic with simd asm (iwmmx/neon etc.) |
| 04:11.39 | raster | :) |
| 04:11.57 | jc | there WERE more thumb instructions than arm ones in the main for hello world, but overall, it was a good deal smaller |
| 04:12.03 | raster | jc: smaller is good |
| 04:12.06 | raster | it will use less ram |
| 04:12.11 | jc | yeah |
| 04:12.12 | raster | tho try it on more than busybox |
| 04:12.16 | jc | and more importantly |
| 04:12.16 | raster | try it on glibc |
| 04:12.20 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:12.22 | jc | I'll try it on the qwhole system |
| 04:12.25 | raster | yup |
| 04:12.28 | raster | also |
| 04:12.28 | jc | more importantly |
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| 04:12.35 | jc | instructions are mostly 16 bits |
| 04:12.35 | raster | produce a jffs2 image of arm vs thumb |
| 04:12.38 | raster | and see the difference |
| 04:12.41 | jc | one memory fetch cycle per instruction |
| 04:12.44 | raster | as such jfffs2 is a compressed fs |
| 04:12.49 | raster | thumb may not compress as well |
| 04:12.57 | raster | oh sure |
| 04:13.01 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:13.05 | mwester-laptop | http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2008-October/006718.html |
| 04:13.06 | jc | see this: |
| 04:13.07 | jc | <jc> guess which is which |
| 04:13.07 | jc | <jc> 000083d4 <main>: |
| 04:13.07 | jc | <jc> 83d4: e1a0c00d mov ip, sp |
| 04:13.07 | jc | <jc> 83d8: e92dd800 push {fp, ip, lr, pc} |
| 04:13.07 | jc | <jc> 83dc: e24cb004 sub fp, ip, #4 ; 0x4 |
| 04:13.09 | jc | <jc> 83e0: e59f0004 ldr r0, [pc, #4] ; 83ec <main+0x18> |
| 04:13.11 | jc | <jc> 83e4: ebffffc5 bl 8300 <_init+0x44> |
| 04:13.13 | jc | <jc> 83e8: e89da800 ldm sp, {fp, sp, pc} |
| 04:13.13 | raster | but - you may actualyl make some loops longer and slower |
| 04:13.15 | jc | <jc> 83ec: 0000847c .word 0x0000847c |
| 04:13.15 | mwester-laptop | spam! |
| 04:13.17 | jc | <raster> in fact speed is probably your biggest factor to worry about |
| 04:13.19 | jc | <jc> 000083d8 <main>: |
| 04:13.19 | raster | as the instructions are simplified |
| 04:13.21 | jc | <jc> 83d8: b580 push {r7, lr} |
| 04:13.23 | jc | <jc> 83da: af00 add r7, sp, #0 |
| 04:13.23 | raster | you have a very simple case |
| 04:13.25 | jc | <jc> 83dc: 4b02 ldr r3, [pc, #8] (83e8 <main+0x10>) |
| 04:13.27 | jc | <jc> 83de: 1c18 adds r0, r3, #0 |
| 04:13.31 | jc | <jc> 83e0: f7ff ff8e bl 8300 <_init+0x44> |
| 04:13.33 | jc | <jc> 83e4: 46bd mov sp, r7 |
| 04:13.35 | jc | <jc> 83e6: bd80 pop {r7, pc} |
| 04:13.37 | jc | <jc> 83e8: 00008478 .word 0x00008478 |
| 04:13.39 | jc | the middle paragraph are raw bytes |
| 04:13.41 | jc | they look pretty random to me |
| 04:13.43 | jc | compression shouldn't make much difference |
| 04:13.48 | rooly | rafb.net/paste |
| 04:13.50 | rooly | next time |
| 04:13.51 | jc | raster: yes thats what I'm afraid |
| 04:14.01 | raster | as i said |
| 04:14.02 | jc | for some code, actually ARM is MUCH more powerfull |
| 04:14.07 | raster | dont get exited over such a small example |
| 04:14.08 | raster | :) |
| 04:14.12 | raster | yup |
| 04:14.13 | mwester-laptop | watches an important URL scroll off the screen due to the flood, gets totally p***ed off, and leaves this pointless discussion with jc, who clearly doesn't want to communicate. |
| 04:14.18 | jc | that it outweights the smaller thumb by lot |
| 04:14.21 | raster | thats why i am saying to temper your enthusiasm |
| 04:15.02 | raster | i know that i need to put neon asm into evas |
| 04:15.02 | jc | mwester: right, sorry |
| 04:15.02 | raster | and probably put in some arm asm for preloads to get some speedups |
| 04:15.02 | raster | and that may negate anything thumb can do (and give a good 10 ro 20% speedup with preloads) |
| 04:15.22 | jc | raster: still you can mix thumb and arm even in a single program |
| 04:15.29 | jc | I saw that in the busybox binary disassembly |
| 04:15.39 | raster | jc: see mwester-laptop's url post |
| 04:15.57 | jc | functions that were mostly just calling external libraries were actually compiled as arm to save a mode switch |
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| 04:16.53 | raster | yes |
| 04:16.55 | raster | see that url |
| 04:16.56 | raster | :) |
| 04:17.08 | raster | you get some gains |
| 04:17.14 | jc | mwester-laptop: sorry, missed it, thanks |
| 04:17.21 | raster | in size and seemingly speed in some tests |
| 04:17.25 | raster | but less than 25% or 50% |
| 04:17.26 | raster | by a lot |
| 04:17.36 | raster | and you get added complexity |
| 04:17.45 | jc | damn thats not too much |
| 04:17.47 | raster | the q is - is the small gain worth the complexity |
| 04:18.04 | jc | just 9% in python, thats awful |
| 04:18.11 | raster | so speedups of 9-16% there in 2 cases |
| 04:18.16 | raster | tho dubious as kernel changed |
| 04:18.19 | jc | well in gentoo, its no complexity to specify -mthumb instead of -marm in cflags |
| 04:18.22 | raster | and average size saving is 12% |
| 04:18.24 | jc | but otherwise, maybe |
| 04:18.39 | raster | oh its complexity knowing what apps/libs use arm asm |
| 04:18.42 | raster | and need special care |
| 04:19.08 | jc | when it fails during build, compile it with -marm next time |
| 04:19.13 | raster | now it adds complexity onto upsteram to split code so you can sanly use thumb like you want to without special casing |
| 04:19.29 | raster | also you pay a price in cycles on mode switch |
| 04:19.38 | raster | if you switch too much you will pay a perf hit |
| 04:19.42 | raster | anyway |
| 04:19.42 | jc | as I said in the busybox example |
| 04:19.47 | raster | theres a lot to consider |
| 04:19.54 | raster | its not as simple as it looks |
| 04:19.55 | raster | :) |
| 04:19.57 | raster | gotta run |
| 04:19.59 | jc | when a function was short and was just calling a 32bit external library, it was compiled as arm |
| 04:20.01 | raster | stuff to do before stuff closes |
| 04:20.02 | raster | bbl |
| 04:20.03 | raster | :) |
| 04:20.11 | jc | for example all usage printfs |
| 04:20.14 | jc | ok, bye |
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| 04:23.00 | balleyne | the Getting Started guide says "Try checking the .conf files in the /etc/opkg/ directory. If you see four URLs pointing at http://buildhost.openmoko.org/ , this is your problem. " What's the solution? What should the URLs be? |
| 04:23.15 | balleyne | (this is about trying opkg upgrades) |
| 04:23.20 | rooly | yeah |
| 04:23.35 | rooly | it should be http://downloads.openmoko.org/<some other stuff> |
| 04:24.04 | Slaxxer | flash shr or 2008.12 |
| 04:24.28 | balleyne | rooly: thanks |
| 04:32.23 | balleyne | rooly: made the change, is it expected that 'opkg upgrade' will return 'Nothing to be done' when I've got a new phone and I've never run an upgrade before? |
| 04:34.09 | rooly | sure |
| 04:34.14 | rooly | because you haven't run opkg update |
| 04:35.51 | balleyne | rooly: sorry, I run `opkg update` then `opkg upgrade`, after changing the URLs to downloads.openmoko.org... still says nothing to be done. Is that normal? or is it more likely that I've done something wrong? |
| 04:35.55 | Dave | registeres |
| 04:37.14 | rooly | whats your opkg update output |
| 04:37.33 | rooly | make sure there are no error 404's when downloading the package.gz's |
| 04:37.38 | balleyne | rooly: "Nothing to be done" |
| 04:38.08 | balleyne | rooly: ah, yeah, there are. (Getting Started said not to worry about 404s for sigs.. but there are for the Package.gzs too). |
| 04:38.20 | rooly | then you have the wrong download locations |
| 04:39.33 | balleyne | rooly: I'm thinking I have the URLs wrong.. i have http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.gz (just change the top level domain). I suppose that should be http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases... or some other subdirectory? |
| 04:39.36 | rooly | go look inside the http://downloads.openmoko.org/ directory and find the correct paths |
| 04:40.19 | rooly | probably, balleyne |
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| 04:51.50 | Dave | :) |
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| 05:27.37 | balleyne | wow. that was confusing. so, my freerunner ships with an unsupported distribution (Om 2007.2)? I've got opkg update working now with the scaredy cat repo. Getting Started guide did NOT help with that (editing now) |
| 05:32.23 | brian__ | install shr or 2008.12 |
| 05:33.39 | brian__ | prolly shr but since u are just getting your feet wet might as well install a few oss to check em out |
| 05:35.14 | brian__ | try qt extended first though |
| 05:35.43 | brian__ | 4.4.2 |
| 05:36.04 | balleyne | right. I was looking at installing 2008.12 in a bit, now looking at SHR... didn't realize there were so many. thanks |
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| 06:26.27 | AntonTakk | cdevel is dead quiet :-\ |
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| 06:57.29 | raster | bok |
| 06:57.52 | Tm_T | buk |
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| 07:02.00 | Dave | moo |
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| 09:25.14 | srdgame | hi all, which layer do you think busybox is? Application? or Middle-ware? |
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| 09:31.16 | henk | both to a certain level i'd say |
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| 09:36.20 | srdgame | henk, do you mean that it can be either of them in certain view point? |
| 09:38.17 | henk | yes, but i'm not in any way qualified to say so ;) |
| 09:39.08 | srdgame | henk, could you look at this arch diagram? |
| 09:39.09 | srdgame | http://linux.chinaunix.net/bbs/attachments/month_0812/20081210_0cbb32138942cb0346f2q0yowIQyQs0Y.jpg |
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| 09:41.49 | srdgame | I am not feel good about his diagram. |
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| 09:50.05 | slim_ | hello all, |
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| 09:52.13 | srdgame | slim_, hi |
| 09:52.26 | slim_ | hello srdgame |
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| 09:53.25 | srdgame | slim_, ;-) |
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| 09:53.35 | slim_ | srdgame: how are you ? |
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| 09:53.55 | slim_ | i want to own openmoko :) |
| 09:54.53 | slim_ | is openmoko available in china, ? |
| 09:55.17 | srdgame | slim_, yes, in Taiwan I think. |
| 09:55.31 | srdgame | slim_, I am in Beijing, it is not available |
| 09:55.33 | slim_ | my friend now in china, |
| 09:55.50 | slim_ | srdgame: how i can buy one ? |
| 09:57.21 | srdgame | I think you could get the information from its website. www.openmoko.com |
| 09:57.29 | srdgame | It has online store |
| 09:57.41 | slim_ | thanks srdgame |
| 09:57.54 | srdgame | slim_, welcome :-) |
| 09:58.08 | slim_ | my friend now in shenzhen |
| 09:58.51 | slim_ | is this far from Beijing ? |
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| 10:00.15 | srdgame | slim_, yes, it is very far from here. It costs 24hours by train. 3hours by air |
| 10:00.31 | slim_ | this is too far :) |
| 10:01.12 | srdgame | slim_, where are you? |
| 10:01.22 | slim_ | srdgame: now in Egypt |
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| 10:02.33 | srdgame | slim_, :-) far far alway from here. |
| 10:02.54 | slim_ | yes srdgame :) |
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| 10:03.21 | gfather | raster , u there ? |
| 10:03.30 | slim_ | srdgame: but one feel that live in china with products i use from there :) |
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| 10:48.04 | Bert_2 | Hi, can I ask some questions about the different distributions I can run on the Neo Freerunner here or is this strictly about the openmoko distro ? |
| 10:49.01 | gfather | nah , say anything u want |
| 10:49.12 | Bert_2 | okey ;) |
| 10:49.34 | Bert_2 | so, openmoko, qtopia and debian seem to be the most usable distros mentioned on the wiki |
| 10:50.04 | gfather | yes , and if u need a more fuctional , use the openmoko fso image |
| 10:50.08 | Bert_2 | but it's not very clear whether they have basic phone functionality and whether the battery lasts more than 1 day |
| 10:50.39 | Bert_2 | I read that FSO is just a framework with a dial demo app, has it advanced then ? |
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| 10:52.25 | Bert_2 | gfather: ??? |
| 10:54.11 | henk | Bert_2: 'usable'? i wouldn't really call openmoko's distribution and qtopia 'usable', but it's probably rather that i don't _want_ to use them. at least atm. |
| 10:55.09 | Bert_2 | so what distro should I pick henk if I would like to make/receive calls, SMS, use GPS and surf using wifi on the Neo Freerunner ? |
| 10:56.06 | gfather | Bert_2 i told you , use the fso images |
| 10:56.07 | henk | Bert_2: i'd use one of debian, shr, fso probably |
| 10:56.40 | Bert_2 | so FSO is usuably (altough it's all over the wiki that it isn't) |
| 10:56.53 | Bert_2 | ? |
| 10:56.54 | henk | Bert_2: it is? where? |
| 10:57.10 | Bert_2 | searches the pages where he saw that |
| 10:58.15 | gfather | lool |
| 10:58.32 | gfather | man just use it , if u didnt like it change it , thats what cool about opensourced |
| 10:58.36 | gfather | opensource |
| 10:59.15 | Bert_2 | yeah, but I don't want to try everything I can try :p |
| 10:59.20 | Bert_2 | then it's going to take ages |
| 10:59.32 | Bert_2 | ow, I found a comparison table :D |
| 10:59.55 | henk | which is not very informative imho |
| 11:00.22 | Bert_2 | well, the table tells me what works and what doesn't |
| 11:00.29 | gfather | Bert_2 all here are reporting that fso is the most functional images , so try them |
| 11:00.33 | Bert_2 | apparently FSO can't do bluetooth, is that correct ? |
| 11:00.49 | Bert_2 | yeah, I'll tru FSO when I get my Freerunner :D |
| 11:00.52 | Bert_2 | *try |
| 11:00.56 | henk | Bert_2: yes, but most of it is not true, afaik |
| 11:02.15 | Bert_2 | okey, so the table say wiki doesn't work and that GPRS and WiFi are not working through UI, but the Wifi part sounds rather silly as you can make a starter for that, right ? |
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| 11:02.42 | henk | yes, but there other problems with wifi, kernel-related iirc |
| 11:03.56 | Bert_2 | what kind of problems ? |
| 11:04.46 | Bert_2 | speed problems or does it stop working ? |
| 11:04.54 | henk | the latter |
| 11:04.54 | lindi- | Bert_2: http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/cgi-bin/openmoko-bugs.py?q=lindi%0D%0A%28wifi%7Cwlan%29 |
| 11:05.57 | Bert_2 | and are those getting fixed soon or is the wifi just permanently *BROKEN* for the next months ? |
| 11:08.30 | Bert_2 | (sorry for the pile of questions, I'm just very interested in the development of this phone and how the many distros work, the wiki really needs updates) |
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| 11:25.15 | jipey | hi guys |
| 11:25.21 | Bert_2 | hi |
| 11:25.26 | jipey | I have a small question |
| 11:25.40 | Bert_2 | go ahead |
| 11:25.53 | jipey | I'm a new user of openmoko (which is really awesome :) :) :)) |
| 11:26.05 | Kamping_Kaiser | :) |
| 11:26.06 | jipey | but I face a freeze somtimes, |
| 11:26.22 | jipey | when playing with address book for instance |
| 11:26.39 | dns53 | have you flashed everything? |
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| 11:26.57 | henk | Juice__: what distribution are you talking about. |
| 11:27.06 | jipey | yep, I use openmoko 12 2008 |
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| 11:27.40 | henk | jipey: and you have flashed the kernel, the rootfs and perhaps also a new u-boot and are starting via the nand uboot? |
| 11:27.57 | jipey | flashed kernel and rootfs, not uboot |
| 11:28.21 | jipey | start is default start, i'm not sure is it nand or something else |
| 11:28.49 | henk | yes, that's nand then. |
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| 11:29.16 | jipey | should I flash the old uboot ? is this freeze a known issue to have this openmoko freezing sometimes ? (no black or white screen) |
| 11:29.20 | dns53 | it seems you need to flash uboot or install qi |
| 11:29.37 | henk | jipey: updating uboot helps with some issues. |
| 11:29.58 | dns53 | the original one had that bug, that has been fixed for ages |
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| 11:30.13 | jipey | wow okay :) |
| 11:30.23 | jipey | thank you very much, I'll do it now :) |
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| 11:31.39 | jipey | by the way, what is qi ? another bootloader ? |
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| 11:32.45 | henk | yes |
| 11:32.46 | PaulFertser | jipey: Simpler, faster and more robust without some bugs still present in u-boot. |
| 11:33.01 | dns53 | yes, it is faster, it will boot of sd card first, then phone, and there is no menu to choose between them |
| 11:33.09 | henk | but you don't get a boot menu, so not really usable for dualboot systems. |
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| 11:33.32 | dns53 | you dual boot by removing the sd card |
| 11:34.01 | henk | lol, right |
| 11:34.02 | dns53 | it boots the sd card if it finds the kernel under /boot on the card |
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| 11:35.13 | dns53 | you need qi to boot android or you need to work out how to modify the uboot to allow for bigger kernels |
| 11:35.53 | jipey | ok I see |
| 11:37.12 | jipey | I should update uboot of nand flash, never the one in nor flash right ? |
| 11:37.23 | lindi- | jipey: you can't write to NOR |
| 11:37.36 | jipey | :) |
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| 11:38.05 | dns53 | yeah so you can always go back |
| 11:39.10 | PaulFertser | henk: You can skip a boot possibility in Qi by pressing AUX button! |
| 11:39.30 | henk | PaulFertser: oh? where do you have that info from? |
| 11:39.36 | PaulFertser | sources |
| 11:40.06 | PaulFertser | Do it while the RED led is on. It'll vibrate to indicate that one boot possibility is skipped. |
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| 11:49.56 | vmx | PaulFertser: so you can get into a system on the flash, even if there is a system on the sd card without removing the sd card? |
| 11:52.49 | PaulFertser | vmx: yes |
| 11:53.07 | vmx | so is there any reason not so use qi? |
| 11:53.47 | PaulFertser | You can even have several partitions on your SD and keep a separate systems on them. Qi tries to boot from the 1, 2, 3 (primary partitions), then NAND. |
| 11:54.39 | PaulFertser | vmx: Some special testing purposes like lindi-'s probably require a more sophisticated system, but it'd be better done with a minimal kernel and initramfs imo. |
| 11:54.52 | vmx | PaulFertser, how would you choose between 1, 2 and 3? |
| 11:55.18 | dns53 | you can modify the uboot menu |
| 11:55.35 | PaulFertser | vmx: It tries to boot from 1, turns the red LED on, you press AUX, it turns off the led, vibrates, tries to boot from the 2nd, turns the LED on, etc. |
| 11:55.47 | PaulFertser | Not a big deal |
| 11:56.08 | vmx | nice |
| 11:56.31 | vmx | "how do you know which one to boot?" - "i can feel it" ;) |
| 11:56.43 | PaulFertser | And with u-boot you have to be always ultra-carefull, watch for consistency, u-boot is a support hell, actually. Qi is always predictable, no environment, no hidden variables, nothing extra. |
| 11:58.21 | PaulFertser | And to fine-tune kernel parameters, just add what extra params you need to /boot/append-GTA02. BTW, Qi supports symlinks. |
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| 12:01.33 | dns53 | i did notice the symlinks in some of the tar distro releases |
| 12:01.36 | jipey | and boots faster ! |
| 12:01.42 | jipey | (with less kernel lines) |
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| 12:23.59 | henk | PaulFertser: ah nice. thanks :) |
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| 12:25.49 | PaulFertser | henk: you're welcome |
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| 13:55.34 | lut4rp | this just hit me - anyone thought of Openmoko + Nokia 5800? |
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| 13:58.45 | dns53 | what is a 5800 can you flash a new os or does everything need to be signed |
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| 14:01.29 | lut4rp | I dont get you're trying to say, but here's what's 5800 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_5800_XpressMusic |
| 14:02.21 | lut4rp | and here's the technical details - http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/5800_XpressMusic |
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| 14:02.50 | lut4rp | oops, gotta go for a while. |
| 14:02.51 | SpeedEvil | suspects the 'xpressmusic' is the interesting bit, and wouldn't work under OM. |
| 14:03.09 | lut4rp | SpeedEvil, why? what's with the XpressMusic? |
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| 14:04.21 | SpeedEvil | I thought tthat was nokias free music phone |
| 14:04.37 | SpeedEvil | (*) Free may have differing meanings. |
| 14:05.05 | lut4rp | nothing to do with the XpressMusic tag. |
| 14:05.11 | SpeedEvil | k |
| 14:05.17 | lut4rp | it just means its 'more' music enabled |
| 14:05.20 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 14:05.30 | SpeedEvil | As to the rest. |
| 14:05.33 | lut4rp | supports lots of formats, and they give a brilliant earphone in the box |
| 14:05.48 | SpeedEvil | OM barely 'works' on the 'supported' hardware. |
| 14:05.58 | SpeedEvil | Anything else is going to be entirely up to your own efforts. |
| 14:06.01 | lut4rp | yeah, I know. |
| 14:06.16 | lut4rp | but I have this sudden urge to get one and totally destroy it :) |
| 14:06.32 | SpeedEvil | First - can you find out how to reflash it. |
| 14:06.38 | SpeedEvil | Second, can you find a toolchain. |
| 14:06.45 | SpeedEvil | third - are there drivers for all the hardware |
| 14:07.03 | SpeedEvil | fourth - application coding for differing peripherals, ... |
| 14:07.38 | lut4rp | SpeedEvil, I *really* need to run off for a while, I'll be back after an hour or less |
| 14:07.42 | SpeedEvil | wave |
| 14:07.44 | SpeedEvil | good luck |
| 14:07.50 | dns53 | there have been ports to other devices, what was the old palm mobile phone? |
| 14:08.04 | SpeedEvil | I think ports is probably a bit strong for most of them. |
| 14:08.15 | SpeedEvil | AIUI, most have been 'I've got it sort-of-working on xxx' |
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| 14:23.14 | vanous123 | does anyone have an idea who overwrites my /etc/profile LANG exports in X? Xserver itself? |
| 14:24.53 | quatrox | vanous123: does something modify the file? |
| 14:25.33 | vanous123 | quatrox: no, but something exports whole bunch of locale settings while x server starts |
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| 14:26.15 | lindi- | vanous123: grep -r LANG /etc |
| 14:26.16 | quatrox | so something overrides LANG env? |
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| 14:26.25 | vanous123 | quatrox: and it doesn't seem to be coming from the startup scripts in /etc/X.. |
| 14:27.21 | vanous123 | lindi-: grep -r LANG /etc finds only my entry |
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| 14:27.46 | quatrox | vanous123: which distro? |
| 14:27.56 | vanous123 | SHR |
| 14:28.16 | lindi- | vanous123: then what is LANG set to under X? |
| 14:28.58 | dns53 | would illume set it? |
| 14:29.06 | vanous123 | dns53: hmm |
| 14:29.17 | vanous123 | dns53: that could be |
| 14:29.28 | quatrox | vanous123: from my ssh: env|grep LANG returns nothing |
| 14:29.38 | quatrox | let me check inside X |
| 14:29.51 | vanous123 | inside X its en_EN_UTF |
| 14:29.59 | vanous123 | sort of |
| 14:30.08 | lindi- | vanous123: echo $LANG returns that? |
| 14:30.37 | vanous123 | en_US.UTF-8 |
| 14:31.09 | quatrox | same here |
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| 14:37.41 | Shlee | Anyone know much about decompiling a MIPS linux binary? |
| 14:37.59 | lindi- | Shlee: quite a lot |
| 14:39.26 | quatrox | vanous123: I guess something is run when X is started |
| 14:39.43 | quatrox | maybe /usr/lib/python2.5/locale.py |
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| 14:39.47 | quatrox | or something |
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| 14:40.39 | vanous123 | quatrox: that could be |
| 14:42.04 | quatrox | vanous123: you can create /home/root/.xserverrc |
| 14:42.16 | quatrox | and set the env var there |
| 14:42.29 | quatrox | maybe it works |
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| 14:46.48 | vanous123 | quatrox: .xserverrc didn't help but now i've found land settings in illume. will try |
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| 14:51.23 | vanous123 | quatrox: ok, so it was illume, after changing it in the wrench prefs all works. one has to (of course) install glibc-binary-localedata-xx-xx |
| 14:52.06 | quatrox | ohh... nice:) |
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| 15:12.58 | RedFlash | hi, someone managed to get remoko running on Om2008.12 ? |
| 15:15.07 | tordo | running, yes |
| 15:15.08 | tordo | working, no |
| 15:15.22 | tordo | not that i tried very hard |
| 15:16.25 | RedFlash | i see .. same here ... problem seems to be : |
| 15:16.25 | RedFlash | Can't listen on HID control channel: Address already in use |
| 15:16.25 | RedFlash | ERROR: Bluetooth is off |
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| 15:24.16 | quatrox | RedFlash: /etc/init.d/bluetooth stop |
| 15:24.21 | quatrox | then try again |
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| 15:28.52 | RedFlash | thats stragne .. when bluetooth is running (meaning i did not stop it with your cammand) on startup remoko restarts the bluetooth ... |
| 15:28.52 | RedFlash | Stopping Bluetooth subsystem: hcid. |
| 15:28.52 | RedFlash | Starting Bluetooth subsystem: hcid hid2hci. |
| 15:29.23 | RedFlash | wehn bleutooth is not running i get this (error?) message DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.bluez was not provided by any .service files |
| 15:30.04 | quatrox | strange |
| 15:30.20 | Shlee | Speaking of bluetooth, the iPhone bluetooth people have released their first gui release. |
| 15:30.42 | quatrox | Shlee: is that web based? |
| 15:31.02 | Shlee | Nope.. you need to jailbreak |
| 15:31.10 | quatrox | haha |
| 15:31.24 | quatrox | good thing I don't have any iPhone:) |
| 15:31.26 | Shlee | 1.0 of their bluetooth stumbler.. they are working on a BT stack |
| 15:31.39 | lut4rp | SpeedEvil, i'm back |
| 15:31.56 | lut4rp | SpeedEvil, found http://dailymobile.se/forum/nokia/flashing-your-brickeddead-phone/ |
| 15:34.49 | zedstar | writing a bluetooth stumbler for the moko is straightforward |
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| 15:40.06 | quatrox | I guess it will take some time before iPhone gets basic functionality |
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| 15:53.10 | zash__ | roew |
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| 16:16.44 | badcloud | roEW |
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| 16:31.54 | Slaxxer | is it monday yet |
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| 16:33.34 | lut4rp | depends where on planet Earth you are :) |
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| 16:40.42 | Slaxxer | yea i want one of those blackbackground paroli dialers as well as a blackbackground terminal keyboard on shr |
| 16:41.25 | Slaxxer | or the ability to switch between the 2 would be better |
| 16:41.53 | mirko-paroli | hi slaxxer |
| 16:41.55 | Slaxxer | o no ? |
| 16:42.00 | Slaxxer | wassa |
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| 16:42.29 | Slaxxer | he said nothing an had an excess flood hmmmmm that cannot be good |
| 16:43.05 | Slaxxer | might be time to sun a few diff os an ip for a while |
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| 16:43.38 | Mononoke | what's difference between tester and bugzapper ? |
| 16:43.48 | Mononoke | *+the |
| 16:44.06 | mirko-paroli | Slaxxer, got a pic of the black keyboard? |
| 16:44.24 | Slaxxer | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:44.33 | Slaxxer | yep |
| 16:44.44 | Slaxxer | http://planet.openmoko.org/ |
| 16:45.11 | Slaxxer | can i changhe to that? |
| 16:45.18 | Slaxxer | how to? |
| 16:47.31 | mirko-paroli | Slaxxer that is the paroli dialer, I meant the shr kbd |
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| 16:53.01 | Slaxxer | y mine is white background |
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| 16:54.06 | Slaxxer | blinding stuff looks like there was no forethought |
| 16:55.24 | Slaxxer | daytime use maybe but i dont know if the black would work better in high light |
| 16:55.56 | *** part/#openmoko bembel (n=bembel@mail.heinzigartig.de) |
| 16:57.00 | Slaxxer | it appears to be the same dialer except reversed |
| 16:57.30 | mirko-paroli | ah so you mean in the shr dialer it is all white ? |
| 16:57.36 | mirko-paroli | I haven't seen the shr dialer |
| 16:57.51 | Slaxxer | is there a setting to change the dialer pad to black? |
| 16:58.20 | mirko-paroli | in shr I do not know |
| 16:58.26 | mirko-paroli | I am working on paroli |
| 16:58.35 | mirko-paroli | and have no insight on shr |
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| 16:58.41 | Slaxxer | thanks it looks great |
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| 17:01.56 | Slaxxer | the keyboard on shr wastes alot of prime real estate |
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| 17:03.13 | Slaxxer | 20 spots could increase the key size more than enough to make me happy |
| 17:03.56 | Slaxxer | instead of 1 full keyboard have 2 an keep it simple |
| 17:04.37 | Slaxxer | sweep motion to switch keyboard foe ease of use |
| 17:04.53 | Slaxxer | KISS me |
| 17:06.44 | *** join/#openmoko Sharwin_F (n=Sharwin_@116.pool85-50-73.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 17:07.13 | Slaxxer | keep the full terminal for hacking |
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| 17:13.53 | Slaxxer | prolly 30 spaces counting that bar for prdictive words which really irritates me enough |
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| 17:16.03 | Slaxxer | is there a setting to change the dialer pad to black? in shr? |
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| 17:30.02 | md2k7 | Slaxxer: i was trying to create something like the iphone keyboard |
| 17:30.18 | md2k7 | it would be nice in landscape, with full width |
| 17:30.31 | md2k7 | but i didn't manage to make it full width |
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| 17:39.30 | Slaxxer | thats what is needed |
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| 17:39.59 | Slaxxer | finger friendly |
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| 17:40.35 | Slaxxer | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:45.53 | Sharwin_F | Is there any easy way to set the terminal keyboard to be the default one instead the predictive one in SHR? |
| 17:46.15 | Sharwin_F | 'cause I prefer using the terminal one and I've to change it always |
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| 17:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@90-227-33-55-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 17:58.52 | Slaxxer | do u have shr unstable or testing? |
| 17:59.22 | Sharwin_F | Slaxxer, hmm that's a good question |
| 17:59.44 | Slaxxer | where did u get it? |
| 17:59.59 | Slaxxer | i have unstable |
| 18:00.01 | Sharwin_F | Slaxxer, this is the file name: openmoko-shr-image-glibc-ipk--20081216-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 18:00.14 | Slaxxer | 1216 is old |
| 18:00.30 | Sharwin_F | Slaxxer, I've updated it with opkg update & upgrade |
| 18:00.34 | *** join/#openmoko mortenlysgaard (n=mortenly@85.252.185.100) |
| 18:00.34 | Sharwin_F | is it ok then? |
| 18:00.38 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@24.84-48-212.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:00.38 | Slaxxer | if i were u i would move on up |
| 18:00.57 | Sharwin_F | Slaxxer, where's the image? |
| 18:01.27 | Slaxxer | http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/?C=M;O=D |
| 18:02.05 | Slaxxer | mine works well:) |
| 18:02.16 | Sharwin_F | ok I'll try |
| 18:02.29 | Slaxxer | plus shr is fixing to release |
| 18:02.31 | Sharwin_F | I'll make a backup first thought :) |
| 18:02.45 | Slaxxer | for any reason:)? |
| 18:02.57 | Slaxxer | back up what? |
| 18:03.10 | Slaxxer | music/ |
| 18:03.12 | Slaxxer | ? |
| 18:03.25 | Sharwin_F | Slaxxer, the one I have, I've added & modified certain things :) |
| 18:03.32 | Slaxxer | ok |
| 18:03.49 | Sharwin_F | but it's not the same upgrading with opkg than reflashing? |
| 18:04.23 | *** join/#openmoko ramir3z (n=leo_rami@189.128.176.199) |
| 18:04.45 | Slaxxer | u opkg upgrade to testing --not unstable as far as i know |
| 18:05.27 | Slaxxer | i guess u can change the file to point there |
| 18:05.27 | Sharwin_F | mmm but I see there's only lite images in that page |
| 18:05.54 | Sharwin_F | so I'll get less apps installed by defautl isn't it? |
| 18:05.58 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-16-156.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 18:06.01 | Slaxxer | i added fbreader an duke 3d to mine |
| 18:06.26 | Slaxxer | trudge on fearless leader |
| 18:06.38 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal (n=azaghal@91.148.115.239) |
| 18:06.43 | Slaxxer | its realy pretty good |
| 18:06.56 | Slaxxer | l |
| 18:07.22 | *** part/#openmoko ramir3z (n=leo_rami@189.128.176.199) |
| 18:07.29 | Sharwin_F | Slaxxer, but the apps than don't come with lite (ie pidgin) are easily installable through opkg? |
| 18:07.48 | Slaxxer | i didnt install pidgen |
| 18:08.03 | *** join/#openmoko wd_ (n=wd@in.soviet.russia.brains.suxx.us) |
| 18:08.13 | Slaxxer | has a phone call log thats cool |
| 18:08.28 | Slaxxer | i put meoem on to |
| 18:08.54 | Slaxxer | an the keyboard that u want |
| 18:09.37 | Slaxxer | and the selector for keyboards is correctly set to ease use |
| 18:09.46 | Sharwin_F | Slaxxer, ok, donwloading :) |
| 18:10.15 | Slaxxer | its not as lite as u would think |
| 18:10.17 | *** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=chatzill@d51A515D7.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:10.36 | Slaxxer | not near as lite as om |
| 18:11.56 | Sharwin_F | well it says what's on each one here: http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Get%20Started |
| 18:13.08 | Sharwin_F | Slaxxer, is it something broken at the moment in unstable version? |
| 18:13.25 | Slaxxer | not as far as i can tell |
| 18:13.50 | Slaxxer | wifi works |
| 18:13.58 | Slaxxer | gps works |
| 18:14.20 | Slaxxer | with terminal command |
| 18:14.45 | Slaxxer | im sure theres a bug or 2 |
| 18:15.19 | Slaxxer | but it shurely is good because the release is near |
| 18:16.13 | Slaxxer | i use it for my phone |
| 18:16.13 | Slaxxer | SHRly |
| 18:16.14 | Sharwin_F | ok |
| 18:16.36 | Sharwin_F | which command do u use to start gps? because I can't start it on my fr |
| 18:17.24 | Slaxxer | when it ran all the way down an shut off this morning i just powered up an it came up then i plugged it in |
| 18:17.55 | Slaxxer | its fso-gpsd i think |
| 18:18.03 | Slaxxer | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:18.55 | Slaxxer | so it still had power enough to restart even though it shut off on low battery |
| 18:19.51 | Elleo | Sharwin_F: fso-gpsd should be started automatically; make sure you have initscripts-shr installed not initscripts |
| 18:20.08 | Elleo | otherwise lo isn't brought up properly and nothing can connect to fso-gpsd |
| 18:20.14 | Sharwin_F | Elleo, I try to start it but it fails |
| 18:20.17 | Sharwin_F | $ /etc/init.d/fso-gpsd start |
| 18:20.18 | Sharwin_F | Starting freesmartphone.org gpsd compatibility daemon: start-stop-daemon: invalid option -- P |
| 18:20.18 | Sharwin_F | BusyBox v1.11.3 (2008-12-24 11:42:30 CET) multi-call binary |
| 18:20.18 | Sharwin_F | Usage: start-stop-daemon [OPTIONS] [-S|-K] ... [-- arguments...] |
| 18:20.18 | Sharwin_F | (failed) |
| 18:20.45 | Elleo | oh yeah, I remember having that issue |
| 18:20.55 | Elleo | edit /etc/init.d/fso-gpsd |
| 18:22.04 | Elleo | and change the start-stop-daemon line in the start section to: |
| 18:22.10 | Elleo | start-stop-daemon --start -x /usr/sbin/fso-gpsd -- -S localhost:gpsd -P /var/run/${NAME}.pid |
| 18:23.19 | *** join/#openmoko alfatangoxt (n=michele@host212-177-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:23.51 | Slaxxer | is that the brokek part u were refering to |
| 18:23.53 | Sharwin_F | Elleo, yes, now works :) |
| 18:24.25 | Sharwin_F | but is then GPS activated on startup, so eating power to he battery all the time? |
| 18:24.30 | Elleo | no |
| 18:24.38 | Elleo | it only activates when a program requests the GPS |
| 18:24.46 | Sharwin_F | ok :D |
| 18:24.56 | Elleo | and the deactivates when no more clients want it |
| 18:26.07 | Sharwin_F | should now tangoGps work without doing anything more? |
| 18:28.37 | Elleo | Sharwin_F: I think so |
| 18:29.08 | Sharwin_F | I'll flash he SHR image before |
| 18:30.08 | Sharwin_F | Slaxxer, plase, tell me that with unstable telephony related apps have improved a lot xD |
| 18:30.11 | Sharwin_F | *please |
| 18:30.42 | *** join/#openmoko loca| (n=tux@41.226.7.205) |
| 18:32.01 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@net203-187-146.mclink.it) |
| 18:32.32 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g228075190.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:32.33 | *** join/#openmoko Hire (n=hire@host226-193-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:32.58 | Slaxxer | alot |
| 18:33.57 | Sharwin_F | yey good! :D |
| 18:34.17 | Slaxxer | still its a little unstable |
| 18:34.46 | Slaxxer | sometimes the phone quits |
| 18:36.57 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-16-156.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 18:37.51 | Sharwin_F | what do you mean? while calling? |
| 18:38.09 | Sharwin_F | the app crashes? |
| 18:41.37 | Sharwin_F | The unstable image is downlaoding at 10 kb/s >.< |
| 18:45.00 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host250-27-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:46.40 | *** join/#openmoko fredrin (n=workingn@r190-135-135-19.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 18:47.01 | *** join/#openmoko Cervajz (n=Cervajz@r2ab25.net.upc.cz) |
| 18:52.05 | *** join/#openmoko reinouts_ (n=reinout@s559355fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 19:03.01 | *** join/#openmoko samgee (n=samgee@210.32-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:05.47 | *** part/#openmoko Hire (n=hire@host226-193-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:06.09 | *** join/#openmoko Hire (n=hire@host226-193-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:07.22 | *** join/#openmoko PaulFertser (n=pavel@ppp83-237-104-190.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 19:10.52 | Sharwin_F | when charging the kernel ithe first time I read it charges gnome-vfs. Is not newer gvfs? |
| 19:11.03 | rob79 | anyone fso with paroli ? ^^ |
| 19:11.22 | mirko-paroli | rob79 kinda :) |
| 19:11.54 | rob79 | Ecore_X initialization failed! |
| 19:12.06 | rob79 | Etk can not initialize the requested engine! |
| 19:12.16 | rob79 | tips ? |
| 19:12.34 | mirko-paroli | what distro? |
| 19:12.52 | rob79 | fso testing |
| 19:13.40 | mirko-paroli | can you pastebin the whole error somewhere? |
| 19:14.14 | Sharwin_F | Slaxxer, can I have more than 20 messages in inbox with SHR unstable? |
| 19:15.00 | rob79 | http://pastebin.com/m1af65c2d |
| 19:17.43 | mirko-paroli | ah |
| 19:17.52 | mirko-paroli | are yiu starting from console on you notebook/pc ? |
| 19:18.25 | rob79 | with the desktop (TLauncher) and try it with the console |
| 19:18.44 | mirko-paroli | try |
| 19:19.00 | mirko-paroli | export DISPLAY=:0 in your console before paroli-launcher |
| 19:21.32 | rob79 | hmm code 1 and no error msg grml |
| 19:22.25 | *** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i577B5636.versanet.de) |
| 19:22.37 | mirko-paroli | code 1 ? |
| 19:22.59 | rob79 | ahh in console ^ |
| 19:23.00 | rob79 | ^^ |
| 19:23.09 | mirko-paroli | btw you desktop icon is called TLauncher or PLauncher? |
| 19:24.07 | *** join/#openmoko jadams (n=jadams@71.91.9.234) |
| 19:24.10 | jadams | hey hey |
| 19:24.22 | rob79 | TLauncher |
| 19:24.52 | mirko-paroli | which package did you install ? |
| 19:25.00 | rob79 | opgk has no paroli in fso ? |
| 19:25.08 | mirko-paroli | nope |
| 19:25.12 | mirko-paroli | how did you install it? |
| 19:25.35 | rob79 | opkg tichy |
| 19:25.46 | rob79 | not found the new paroli site ^^ |
| 19:25.51 | mirko-paroli | ah |
| 19:26.08 | rob79 | wiki in openmoko is little bit old ? |
| 19:26.20 | mirko-paroli | http://www.paroli-project.org/running-paroli/ |
| 19:26.24 | mirko-paroli | yapp |
| 19:26.40 | mirko-paroli | will get on that wiki page now(); := |
| 19:26.41 | mirko-paroli | :) |
| 19:27.03 | jadams | any way to run hackable:1 on the neo1973? I understand it doesn't fit, in general, but surely I can just boot it off of the SD, right? |
| 19:28.16 | quatrox | jadams: that should work |
| 19:28.41 | jadams | quatrox, cool. I'm always trying to figure out how to turn the neo into something useful for me, haven't yet used it in anything worthwhile |
| 19:30.00 | quatrox | jadams: a distro does not care if it is run from flash or sd |
| 19:30.13 | quatrox | as long as /etc/fstab is correct |
| 19:30.23 | quatrox | and I guess it is |
| 19:30.24 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-238-173.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 19:32.43 | quatrox | jadams: you got both GTA's? |
| 19:34.23 | *** join/#openmoko Fossi (n=fossi@e182069002.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:34.37 | rob79 | hmm sos only ^^ but works |
| 19:37.16 | quatrox | raster: what is the correct way to set the illume keyboards default keyboard layout? |
| 19:37.37 | quatrox | I would like the terminal to be default |
| 19:37.39 | jadams | quatrox, I only have the gta01 neo 1973 |
| 19:37.40 | mirko-paroli | rob79 i changed the wiki page, a bit scarce but at least no wrong info anymore, thx for pointing it out |
| 19:37.45 | mirko-paroli | rob79 only sos? |
| 19:40.59 | quatrox | jadams: you said you want to turn it into something useful. Define useful. A phone? |
| 19:41.29 | *** join/#openmoko alfatangoxt (n=michele@host55-11-dynamic.8-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:44.14 | rob79 | PLauncher on every boot ? |
| 19:44.14 | jadams | quatrox, I have a phone. I bought an android, and I'm pretty happy with it. I've had the neo since they first came out and never used it for anything but a few echo-filled calls and some playing with numpty, which I loved |
| 19:44.16 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485BD0C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:44.25 | quatrox | ahh |
| 19:45.11 | *** join/#openmoko Hire (n=hire@host226-193-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:45.11 | quatrox | maybe the wiki has some hints |
| 19:45.16 | mirko-paroli | rob79 yes, for now it does not start at boot time |
| 19:46.14 | rob79 | hmm no service :/ after pin |
| 19:46.27 | mirko-paroli | it might take a little |
| 19:46.32 | mirko-paroli | usually 20-30 sec |
| 19:47.01 | mirko-paroli | the time for registering on the network is not optimal |
| 19:49.19 | *** join/#openmoko loca| (n=tux@41.226.121.50) |
| 19:50.41 | rob79 | hmm first start no service / second start sos only and no pin display |
| 19:52.06 | *** join/#openmoko alx} (n=alx}--@AToulouse-152-1-9-37.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:54.11 | *** join/#openmoko PloenK (n=tscholz@gw-ka-01-ext.vpn.ploenk.net) |
| 19:56.21 | *** join/#openmoko f1ori (n=flori@nat-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 19:56.23 | *** join/#openmoko Mortak (n=Mortak@i577B9561.versanet.de) |
| 19:56.36 | Mortak | hi |
| 19:57.07 | mirko-paroli | rob79 got console output? |
| 19:57.17 | mirko-paroli | if not there is a log in /tmp/ |
| 20:00.44 | *** join/#openmoko arya (n=chatzill@59.92.141.205) |
| 20:01.39 | rob79 | log in tmp path tztz ^^ |
| 20:01.51 | mirko-paroli | hehe |
| 20:04.31 | Dave | Mister Paroli |
| 20:05.23 | mirko-paroli | ya? |
| 20:06.09 | *** join/#openmoko sindre (n=sindre@212251182058.customer.cdi.no) |
| 20:08.15 | rob79 | Network not allowed ? lol ^^ |
| 20:08.29 | mirko-paroli | ah that is an fso error |
| 20:08.33 | mirko-paroli | I know that one :) |
| 20:08.53 | mirko-paroli | sure the sim works? |
| 20:09.09 | mirko-paroli | (i know kinda stupid question) ;) |
| 20:09.11 | rob79 | jep with zhone |
| 20:09.16 | Dave | software software software |
| 20:09.17 | mirko-paroli | outsch |
| 20:09.20 | mirko-paroli | that one hurt ;) |
| 20:09.24 | rob79 | zhone is remoced ^^ |
| 20:09.51 | *** join/#openmoko Quadduc (n=quadduc@90.149.196.137) |
| 20:10.21 | *** join/#openmoko gringo (n=gringo@h195202184107.med.cm.kabsi.at) |
| 20:10.43 | mirko-paroli | can you pastebin the error? |
| 20:11.17 | rob79 | yes |
| 20:11.20 | mirko-paroli | thx |
| 20:11.24 | mirko-paroli | Dave ??? |
| 20:11.40 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal (n=azaghal@91.148.114.139) |
| 20:13.49 | *** join/#openmoko marcels (n=marcel@cp1189687-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) |
| 20:16.07 | *** join/#openmoko agg1n1 (n=agg1n@static-87-245-11-155.teleos-web.de) |
| 20:16.16 | *** join/#openmoko poco (n=neil@vau06-1-89-85-32-52.dsl.club-internet.fr) |
| 20:16.20 | *** join/#openmoko cnwdup (n=harlekin@hnvr-4dbd47df.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 20:16.23 | cnwdup | Hello |
| 20:16.52 | cnwdup | Does the Om2008.12 images support illume keyboard dictionaries in utf8 encoding? |
| 20:17.58 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@85.131.189.115) |
| 20:21.10 | *** join/#openmoko aryasheel (n=aryashee@59.92.141.205) |
| 20:22.20 | *** part/#openmoko arya (n=chatzill@59.92.141.205) |
| 20:23.16 | Sharwin_F | Slaxxer, did you have any problems installing duke3d? where did you installed from? |
| 20:23.17 | *** join/#openmoko snake__[away] (n=g@193.111.241.213) |
| 20:23.31 | Sharwin_F | I don't have any duke3d binary when I install it |
| 20:24.54 | cnwdup | Also where can I set which keyboard dictionary and which keyboard layout is being used? I can't find anything helpful in the wiki. |
| 20:25.33 | *** join/#openmoko ndrs__ (n=andres@89.100.143.108) |
| 20:27.56 | rob79 | paroli first try http://pastebin.com/m4a3c51c2 |
| 20:29.00 | rob79 | paroli second launch http://pastebin.com/md1318b1 |
| 20:29.11 | mirko-paroli | can't use freesmartphone GSM : org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.AuthFailed: that means the pin is wrong |
| 20:29.14 | mirko-paroli | doesn't wrong |
| 20:29.19 | mirko-paroli | doesn't it ? |
| 20:30.25 | rob79 | hmm |
| 20:30.44 | rob79 | easy pin ^^ 2 tries |
| 20:32.24 | rob79 | no message wrong pin ? |
| 20:32.31 | mirko-paroli | no not yet :( |
| 20:33.15 | mirko-paroli | should add one |
| 20:33.23 | mirko-paroli | *hits himself on the head* |
| 20:33.41 | mirko-paroli | can you make a bug report on trac.paroli-project.org ? |
| 20:33.42 | rob79 | yep but think it was the right one |
| 20:34.06 | mirko-paroli | sry here is the url http://www.paroli-project.org/trac |
| 20:34.10 | mirko-paroli | hmm |
| 20:34.11 | rob79 | ok |
| 20:34.14 | mirko-paroli | that is strange indeed |
| 20:35.01 | cnwdup | Whats the default init level? |
| 20:35.43 | rob79 | 5 ? i think ^^ |
| 20:35.50 | cnwdup | Thanks. (-: |
| 20:36.00 | rob79 | not sure ;) |
| 20:36.15 | cnwdup | /etc/runlevel confirmed that. ^^ |
| 20:37.16 | Digital-Pioneer | Does anyone know a way to listen to the phone going on a modem? |
| 20:37.22 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@unixboard/users/neldoreth) |
| 20:37.27 | Digital-Pioneer | Modem is at devnode /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 20:37.41 | lindi- | Digital-Pioneer: ? |
| 20:38.59 | Digital-Pioneer | lindi-: It's not a FR I'm using now, it's a RAZR, so the question is OT, sorry. Just figured someone might know here. |
| 20:39.05 | rob79 | correct pin but sim auth failed hmm |
| 20:39.19 | *** join/#openmoko gfather1 (n=g@77.241.65.48) |
| 20:39.35 | Digital-Pioneer | I have the RAZR connected via USB, and the computer sees it as a modem. I'm wondering if there is a way to use the computer's audio capability instead of the phones. |
| 20:40.39 | rob79 | @mirko-paroli more testing tomorrow ^^ |
| 20:40.43 | aryasheel | Can we install openmoko on Motrola E6 |
| 20:40.46 | aryasheel | ?? |
| 20:40.55 | mirko-paroli | rob79 sure, am very curious how that comes |
| 20:41.11 | mirko-paroli | I have 3 SIMs here and never had that error :( |
| 20:41.32 | rob79 | i can test a another sim |
| 20:42.01 | rob79 | any german sim tested ? |
| 20:42.10 | mirko-paroli | yapp got a vodafone one here |
| 20:44.03 | *** join/#openmoko Piet (i=pietor@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xC5C71DCE) |
| 20:44.24 | mirko-paroli | rob79 do you have a phone to test the SIM? |
| 20:44.41 | mirko-paroli | i could also tell you how to get the PIN you enter displayed |
| 20:45.37 | rob79 | 2 mobile phones and 2 sims |
| 20:45.45 | rob79 | testing in work |
| 20:50.07 | rob79 | sims are ok |
| 20:50.27 | rob79 | none work on fr |
| 20:50.47 | rob79 | with paroli ^^ |
| 20:51.12 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@74.13.221.204) |
| 20:51.40 | rob79 | need more debug msg ^^ |
| 20:52.23 | mirko-paroli | rob79: r u still getting the fso error? |
| 20:53.27 | rob79 | hmm any changes in fso sim auth ? |
| 20:53.33 | mirko-paroli | btw if you set emission.part_text_set('num_field-text',new_stars) to emission.part_text_set('num_field-text',new) |
| 20:53.34 | rob79 | its a testing image |
| 20:53.49 | mirko-paroli | in paroli-dialer.py line 511 |
| 20:54.01 | mirko-paroli | it will show you the numbers you enter during PIN |
| 20:58.32 | rob79 | path ? ^^ |
| 20:59.13 | mirko-paroli | rob79 usr/share/paroli/applications/paroli-dialer |
| 21:01.14 | Dave | dumps snow on sicu |
| 21:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko mokel (n=hole@p5487DE23.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:03.25 | mokel | any one has a package of meooem? the link in om wiki and opkg.org is down |
| 21:07.23 | rob79 | numbers are ok |
| 21:07.28 | rob79 | @ mirko |
| 21:07.30 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 21:07.33 | mirko-paroli | very strange |
| 21:07.39 | mirko-paroli | but still the same error? |
| 21:08.37 | rob79 | yes |
| 21:08.47 | rob79 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:08.58 | rob79 | strange warning ^^ |
| 21:09.13 | mirko-paroli | the line before gives you the fso error |
| 21:09.14 | mirko-paroli | ;) |
| 21:09.58 | mirko-paroli | we don't want paroli to crash when a service fails |
| 21:10.18 | mirko-paroli | but the error msg is a bit little info |
| 21:13.47 | *** join/#openmoko Gyb (n=Gyb@g224237230.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:14.10 | *** join/#openmoko hanez_ (n=hanez@d049145.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 21:14.32 | mirko-paroli | rob79 i'll test it again |
| 21:14.43 | Wonka | $ DISPLAY=:0 /usr/bin/openmoocow |
| 21:14.43 | Wonka | Neo Freerunner detected |
| 21:14.43 | Wonka | Unable to open audio: No available audio device |
| 21:14.46 | Wonka | WTF? |
| 21:15.07 | Wonka | "mplayer /usr/share/openmoocow/moo.wav" does work though |
| 21:16.26 | PaulFertser | Wonka: oss emulation? |
| 21:17.22 | Wonka | PaulFertser: mplayer doesnt find oss and then successfully tries alsa |
| 21:18.01 | Wonka | $ DISPLAY=:0 aoss /usr/bin/openmoocow |
| 21:18.01 | Wonka | ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/$LIB/libaoss.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored. |
| 21:18.06 | PaulFertser | Wonka: sure. But openmoocow probably can't do alsa. Try aoss (userspace oss->alsa wrapper) |
| 21:18.10 | Wonka | *headdesk* |
| 21:18.13 | *** join/#openmoko iskaja1 (n=user@dslb-088-064-153-065.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:18.48 | PaulFertser | Wonka: patch openmoocow to support ALSA natively? Or compile oss-emulation modules. ;) |
| 21:19.13 | Wonka | there is /usr/lib/libaoss.so.0 |
| 21:19.17 | mirko-paroli | rob79 ok, it is my fault |
| 21:19.19 | DocScrutinizer2 | waaaaaahhhHHH! aoss :-( |
| 21:19.20 | Wonka | but not /usr/lib/libaoss.so |
| 21:19.28 | mirko-paroli | I'll try to fix it |
| 21:19.34 | DocScrutinizer2 | DEPRECATED |
| 21:19.37 | Wonka | and especially no /usr/$LIB/ |
| 21:19.52 | Wonka | DocScrutinizer2: it's at least ugly |
| 21:20.06 | Wonka | DocScrutinizer2: i didn't actively install it! |
| 21:21.49 | Wonka | after a quick vim session on /usr/bin/aoss, it moos |
| 21:21.55 | DocScrutinizer2 | every app should support alsa, and every app should have a config option to select the particulaer alsadev to be used (*NO* standard hardcoded!) |
| 21:22.21 | rob79 | python looks interesting ^^ |
| 21:23.44 | DocScrutinizer2 | (alsa) see e.g. twinklephone.com for how to do alsa |
| 21:24.51 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@93-141-69-42.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 21:25.11 | Dave | JOERG |
| 21:25.50 | Wonka | it's not my app, and atm i am not inclined to fix it... |
| 21:26.08 | Wonka | if i was inclined to do something, i'd rather enhance zgps |
| 21:26.38 | Wonka | or start writing my IM+IRC-Client |
| 21:26.41 | Dave | zgps? |
| 21:27.30 | Wonka | Dave: the gps part from zhone. nothing more at the moment, but i plan to have it show OSM maps and also log tracks. |
| 21:27.35 | *** part/#openmoko iskaja1 (n=user@dslb-088-064-153-065.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:28.00 | Wonka | Dave: maybe render map display itself from osm vector data, later |
| 21:29.42 | *** join/#openmoko mortenlysgaard (n=mortenly@85.252.185.100) |
| 21:30.08 | *** part/#openmoko mokel (n=hole@p5487DE23.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:30.16 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer2: do you think every sound app should use some lib (e.g. libao) to be compatible with other free OSs? |
| 21:30.24 | Dave | aha |
| 21:30.26 | Dave | yeah |
| 21:30.38 | Dave | Wonka, that works fine on pc for now right? it's just that you'd like that on the phone? |
| 21:30.41 | Dave | or what |
| 21:31.34 | Wonka | Dave: that even runs fine on my FR |
| 21:31.41 | Wonka | Dave: that which is there |
| 21:31.52 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer2: and what's your opinion on pulseaudio, btw? |
| 21:32.00 | Wonka | Dave: which is not more than the GPS part of zhone, at the moment :( |
| 21:32.04 | DocScrutinizer2 | PaulFertser: i don't see a standard for audio trans-os, so it basically doesn't care how app handles os-specific audio. a lib is a possibility... |
| 21:32.57 | DocScrutinizer2 | PaulFertser: pulse is a resource-hog and worth nothing for simple audio tasks like the ones we see on Neo |
| 21:34.11 | DocScrutinizer2 | theres just one issue with alsa i know of, and that's hotplug of soundcards (like bt-hs) |
| 21:34.21 | *** join/#openmoko loca| (n=tux@41.226.121.50) |
| 21:34.29 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer2: Like dynamic switching from handset to bluetooth? And controlling sound of every app independently? |
| 21:35.12 | DocScrutinizer2 | nah, where is the problem of controling audio app-specific with alsa? |
| 21:36.34 | DocScrutinizer2 | again see twinklephone.com yahoo-ml, where I did an example volume slider for ringtone specifically |
| 21:36.38 | PaulFertser | If every app implements softvol internally, then there's no problem. But it's code duplication. afaik alsa doesn't present an individual mixer control to every app. |
| 21:37.51 | DocScrutinizer2 | open "softvol" for audio device, and it will have its own slider |
| 21:38.05 | DocScrutinizer2 | just that plain simple |
| 21:38.19 | PaulFertser | Oh, cool :) |
| 21:39.14 | DocScrutinizer2 | yeah, alsa is cryptic and nasty, but its not that crippled as most people think |
| 21:40.43 | PaulFertser | Alsa's very flexible but plugin documentation is not always very clear. And "ordinary users" can't understand it at all. |
| 21:41.22 | *** join/#openmoko mstevens (n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org) |
| 21:41.31 | DocScrutinizer2 | i'm thinking this very minute about automatically loading correct alsa.state on opening alsa devices like handset-speaker, ringer, headset, handset-earpiece etc |
| 21:41.50 | DocScrutinizer2 | with alsa-hooks you should be able to do this |
| 21:42.29 | PaulFertser | And, btw, most of the items in http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/AlsaIssues seem to have some ground. |
| 21:43.05 | mstevens | how do I recharge a completely flat neo? |
| 21:44.13 | DocScrutinizer2 | hmm, dunno this site. But i know pulse is designed for low latency and happily uses up 100% cpu by adding zeroes of two silent audiostreams |
| 21:45.26 | DocScrutinizer2 | in the end i don't know of any soundcard drivers other than the alsa ones |
| 21:45.49 | DocScrutinizer2 | pulse just a layer over it |
| 21:47.10 | PaulFertser | AFAIK PA's developer is seriously targeting embedded devices. It shouldn't waste cpu, it's an effective design. And i think that his developer has enough alsa experience to judge about alsa's problems. |
| 21:48.08 | *** join/#openmoko Sharwin_F- (n=Sharwin_@134.pool85-50-95.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 21:48.31 | PaulFertser | mstevens: look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_Battery |
| 21:48.58 | mstevens | will that apply to the 1973 as well? |
| 21:49.51 | quatrox | mstevens: I didn't check the wiki page, but yes |
| 21:49.55 | PaulFertser | mstevens: some tricks will work regardless. |
| 21:50.35 | PaulFertser | mstevens: the easiest way, i guess, is too boot with a nokia battery, than plug-in the wall charger, ensure maximum charging current and hot-swap the batteries. |
| 21:50.57 | DocScrutinizer2 | PaulFertser: (pulse) well, guess why pulse has been kicked out of OM |
| 21:51.19 | mirko-paroli | rob79 I found out what the prob is |
| 21:51.24 | mirko-paroli | it is not at all your numbers |
| 21:51.33 | mirko-paroli | but a service that doesn't get discovered |
| 21:51.42 | mirko-paroli | am trying to find out why that is the case |
| 21:51.50 | rob79 | ok |
| 21:51.58 | mirko-paroli | sry about that |
| 21:52.06 | rob79 | np ^^ |
| 21:52.10 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer2: either it has some non-fixed bugs or nobody wanted to look at it closely. It's even probably that OM's alsa drivers have bugs. |
| 21:52.12 | mirko-paroli | will try to get a new package with a fix ready till tomorrow |
| 21:52.49 | PaulFertser | PaulFertser: much effort for no real gain for most end-users. Therefore it's been kicked out, i guess. |
| 21:53.12 | DocScrutinizer2 | hmm, those are written by broonie of Wolfson Inc iirc |
| 21:53.35 | PaulFertser | It doesn't mean they are bug-free, does it? ;) |
| 21:55.02 | DocScrutinizer2 | but it for sure doesn't mean pulse has any advantage over alsa (other than better doc, so people prefer to try and implement pulse instead of understanding alsa) |
| 21:55.03 | quatrox | a program without bugs is useless because it has size = 0 |
| 21:56.16 | DocScrutinizer2 | and, as mentioned before, pa uses alsa kernel drivers |
| 21:56.50 | DocScrutinizer2 | pa is just a layer between alsa nd userspace |
| 21:57.16 | DocScrutinizer2 | afaik |
| 21:57.22 | quatrox | thinks pa is overkill |
| 21:57.41 | DocScrutinizer2 | nota bene, i don't like alsa as well, and i'm no expert |
| 21:57.55 | DocScrutinizer2 | quatrox: ACK |
| 22:01.33 | quatrox | besides, switching between handset and headset generates an irq which a daemon picks up and loads the correct state file |
| 22:02.13 | DocScrutinizer2 | quatrox: yup, that's the way it is supposed to be |
| 22:02.39 | quatrox | but not fully implemented yet |
| 22:03.29 | DocScrutinizer2 | depends i guess. dunno about recent state of this topic in different distros |
| 22:04.02 | *** join/#openmoko loca| (n=tux@41.226.64.117) |
| 22:04.56 | quatrox | DocScrutinizer2: e.g. activate speaker during a call and then deactivate it - or, insert the headset when the call is active - this didn't work last time I checked.... but everything else worked:) |
| 22:05.02 | DocScrutinizer2 | quatrox: btw: its a little more tricky, as you cant just load the correct statefile once on jackinsert. Playback of ringtone e.g. would override that |
| 22:05.22 | quatrox | ahh |
| 22:06.36 | DocScrutinizer2 | and, as i mentioned some time ago, you actually MUST NOT playback ringtone via speaker while headset plugged, its electrically mutually exclusive |
| 22:07.32 | DocScrutinizer2 | (i.e. you may blow your hs or your ears, as hs cant be disabled when using speaker) |
| 22:08.00 | quatrox | that is not good |
| 22:08.18 | mwester-laptop | You can't make the phone ring while a headset is plugged in, then??? |
| 22:08.22 | mwester-laptop | Ooooo..... |
| 22:08.59 | DocScrutinizer2 | mwester: you can, but hs will get same full power as speaker does |
| 22:09.17 | mwester-laptop | :( |
| 22:09.20 | mwester-laptop | Oh well... |
| 22:09.30 | DocScrutinizer2 | hw |
| 22:09.40 | DocScrutinizer2 | see schem |
| 22:09.53 | mwester-laptop | is just accustomed to ringer volume being completely independent from other audio, that's all. |
| 22:10.05 | quatrox | mwester-laptop: why would you want that? When you use your headset, the music should fade away and you should hear a ringing in the headset while the phone vibrates |
| 22:10.16 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 22:10.35 | DocScrutinizer2 | thats the way this should be handled, yes |
| 22:11.09 | Wonka | yeah, full-power w48.wav to the HS! |
| 22:11.10 | mwester-laptop | quatrox: because often the headset sits in my pocket, not in my ears. Consider a crowded commuter train, with lots of noise -- I use a headset, but don't wear it all the time. |
| 22:11.27 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@74.13.221.204) |
| 22:11.33 | mwester-laptop | quatrox: it just means I'll have to keep it in the pocket where the vibrator can alert me to the call. |
| 22:11.50 | quatrox | mwester-laptop: then you might want to try BT headset |
| 22:12.11 | mwester-laptop | keep phone in pocket, I mean -- not just the headset in pocket. And yes, bluetooth is probably the option I'll need anyway to avoid the echo and buzz. |
| 22:12.33 | DocScrutinizer2 | mwester: you could start with headset, then slowly increase ringer volume of speaker |
| 22:12.35 | lindi- | mwester-laptop: %N187 seems to fix echo quite nicely here, only buzz is an issue |
| 22:12.36 | mwester-laptop | It would be nice to have bluetooth working some day, then. |
| 22:12.50 | mwester-laptop | DocScrutinizer2: that's a good idea, actually. |
| 22:13.04 | DocScrutinizer2 | thanks |
| 22:13.33 | quatrox | never had echo except when using the speaker |
| 22:14.08 | mwester-laptop | has had the echo, and suspects that mickey's latest commit will resolve that in SHR/FSO finally. |
| 22:14.24 | DocScrutinizer2 | lindi-: yup, it should fix echo for good |
| 22:14.35 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-218-126-28.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:16.21 | quatrox | what is %N187? |
| 22:16.42 | quatrox | echo cancelling? |
| 22:16.59 | DocScrutinizer2 | quatrox: AT%Nnnn : calypso echo cnacellation setup |
| 22:17.18 | quatrox | great:) |
| 22:17.18 | DocScrutinizer2 | and noise gate |
| 22:17.38 | *** join/#openmoko apol_ (n=apol@84.78.178.63) |
| 22:18.07 | quatrox | DocScrutinizer2: I assume I should flash the calypso to get that fix |
| 22:18.16 | DocScrutinizer2 | you can tune the actual parameters to meet your taste |
| 22:18.30 | DocScrutinizer2 | quatrox: nope |
| 22:18.42 | DocScrutinizer2 | always been there |
| 22:19.13 | quatrox | anyway, it is time for me to flash it soon |
| 22:19.20 | DocScrutinizer2 | just needs to be set before each single call, as its not "sticky" |
| 22:19.31 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer2: any progress on #1024? I though budfive gave some valuable info. And you can ask him to perform more tests. |
| 22:20.20 | DocScrutinizer2 | i'm starting to do real work again tomorrow. still curing my flu |
| 22:20.37 | *** part/#openmoko badcloud (n=bla@ti400720a342-0283.bb.online.no) |
| 22:20.49 | *** join/#openmoko badcloud (n=bla@ti400720a342-0283.bb.online.no) |
| 22:20.52 | DocScrutinizer2 | (1024) afaik, nothing new yet |
| 22:20.57 | badcloud | hey all |
| 22:21.16 | *** join/#openmoko arzej (n=user@dfs129.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 22:22.12 | badcloud | has anyone found a way to bypass the screenlock+zlock for incoming calls/sms? |
| 22:23.32 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.196.60.130) |
| 22:23.43 | quatrox | badcloud: it should be simple, but not sure if it is done yet |
| 22:24.25 | badcloud | simple for whom ;) |
| 22:24.46 | quatrox | the developers |
| 22:24.51 | DocScrutinizer2 | gnah, please dont enable the ts on inbound ringing, as phone still sitting in the pocket! |
| 22:25.12 | Wonka | ack |
| 22:25.22 | badcloud | I'm no dev... |
| 22:25.28 | *** join/#openmoko loca| (n=tux@41.226.69.11) |
| 22:26.33 | quatrox | badcloud: are you sure you want this? |
| 22:28.05 | quatrox | agrees with DocScrutinizer2 |
| 22:28.08 | *** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=chatzill@d51A515D7.access.telenet.be) |
| 22:29.15 | badcloud | quatrox, have you tried answering an incoming call when the display is locked with zlock?? |
| 22:29.19 | *** part/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@85.93.174.26) |
| 22:29.31 | quatrox | no |
| 22:29.49 | quatrox | what is the problem? |
| 22:29.50 | *** join/#openmoko Arg0naut (n=steveois@CPE001c10acab63-CM000a7369b290.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:29.59 | Arg0naut | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:30.06 | badcloud | it takes forever: aux, draw a big z |
| 22:33.28 | quatrox | is /dev/input/event4 the headset btn? |
| 22:35.00 | PaulFertser | quatrox: "Neo1973 Buttons" all of them, i guess |
| 22:35.23 | quatrox | nope |
| 22:35.29 | quatrox | 2,3 are accels |
| 22:38.56 | quatrox | badcloud: if you don't use the neo to play music, just suspend it |
| 22:39.12 | quatrox | it will wake up when you receive a call or sms |
| 22:39.53 | badcloud | that's not the case in shr from my experience |
| 22:40.34 | quatrox | badcloud: try a newer build |
| 22:40.36 | badcloud | usually what happens is that it wakes up, doesn't show the incoming call dialog, but won't stop vibrating and ringing |
| 22:41.38 | badcloud | how do I update to a newer build? flash or opkg? |
| 22:41.51 | quatrox | badcloud: flash would be the best |
| 22:42.18 | badcloud | what's the latest now? |
| 22:42.35 | badcloud | or at least, the latest stable build |
| 22:44.01 | quatrox | badcloud: which kernel are you using? |
| 22:44.14 | quatrox | badcloud: I compiled the newest one: http://shr.buildhost.quatrox.org/images/om-gta02/ |
| 22:44.14 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkman (n=zork@78-22-123-127.access.telenet.be) |
| 22:44.51 | mirko-paroli | rob79 still around? |
| 22:45.48 | quatrox | badcloud: let me know if there are problems on the image |
| 22:45.49 | badcloud | wow, thanks |
| 22:45.52 | badcloud | will do |
| 22:49.49 | quatrox | badloud: I will put them on a faster server, but don't have login yet, so it will take some time to download |
| 22:50.04 | badcloud | oh, and kernel, I've been using the 14-Dec-2008 |
| 22:50.34 | quatrox | same as I used... I did not have the problem you told me about |
| 22:50.52 | badcloud | lemme try again before I flash |
| 22:51.12 | Dave | nordmenn! |
| 22:51.17 | *** join/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@85.93.174.26) |
| 22:51.20 | badcloud | heisann |
| 22:51.27 | quatrox | hei |
| 22:51.27 | Dave | s'kjera? :) |
| 22:52.00 | quatrox | slapper av |
| 22:52.00 | sicu | sengetid |
| 22:52.00 | badcloud | other than a temperamental phone, ingenting |
| 22:52.25 | quatrox | badclaud: huff da |
| 22:53.11 | quatrox | s/au/ou/ |
| 22:53.20 | badcloud | ???? |
| 22:53.46 | quatrox | not good with an angry phone |
| 22:54.00 | rob79 | @mirko-paroli yes |
| 22:54.10 | mirko-paroli | rob79 i found the error |
| 22:54.32 | mirko-paroli | was sth in the init of the service |
| 22:55.01 | badcloud | ok, here we go. suspending.... |
| 22:55.01 | badcloud | calling... |
| 22:55.01 | mirko-paroli | so I am trying to fix the git version right now to have the package build in 1h07min ;) |
| 22:55.17 | badcloud | answering |
| 22:55.22 | badcloud | halle$%^&*luya |
| 22:55.32 | quatrox | :) |
| 22:55.49 | badcloud | so, what did you update on your image? |
| 22:56.02 | quatrox | nothing |
| 22:56.04 | badcloud | seems heftier than bearstech's |
| 22:56.07 | badcloud | ah |
| 22:56.48 | brian__ | so why is it 115 megs? |
| 22:57.05 | quatrox | just compiled the unstable |
| 22:57.19 | badcloud | for some reason though, I can't exit 'new sms' |
| 22:57.22 | brian__ | trying to dl |
| 22:57.46 | brian__ | 25KB/s |
| 22:57.54 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@BAA67a4.baa.pppool.de) |
| 22:57.59 | brian__ | shall i stop? |
| 22:58.28 | quatrox | brian__: i will put it on gigabit within a few days |
| 22:58.29 | badcloud | I can stop so you can get more bandwidth |
| 22:58.41 | brian__ | na |
| 22:58.46 | brian__ | no hurry |
| 22:58.47 | *** join/#openmoko elektranox (n=elektran@p548145AC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:59.15 | badcloud | don't need it anyway... yet :P |
| 22:59.19 | brian__ | 82KB/s |
| 22:59.32 | quatrox | hmm |
| 22:59.52 | brian__ | sorry |
| 22:59.56 | quatrox | brian__: it should be 25 times faster |
| 23:00.15 | brian__ | 91KB/s |
| 23:00.44 | brian__ | why is it 115 megs?/ |
| 23:00.56 | brian__ | whats new? |
| 23:01.10 | badcloud | t'was what I was askin too |
| 23:01.36 | badcloud | Dave, are you as psyched as I am about the wake on event?? |
| 23:02.03 | quatrox | it is not lite |
| 23:02.18 | brian__ | oic |
| 23:02.26 | badcloud | but the bearstech nonlite is 80 megs, isn't it? |
| 23:02.27 | quatrox | i should prob build that too |
| 23:02.27 | sicu | raster: your logo reminded me of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eon_(novel) and http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=3987 |
| 23:03.21 | *** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=matic@BSN-95-236-226.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 23:05.06 | brian__ | intresting |
| 23:05.22 | brian__ | raster has good company |
| 23:05.51 | brian__ | that works 2-3 different ways |
| 23:06.49 | Mortak | hmm, my freshly build shr has 120mb |
| 23:07.02 | brian__ | quatrox whats new here on this current image? |
| 23:07.18 | quatrox | not sure |
| 23:07.20 | *** join/#openmoko loca| (n=tux@196.203.110.220) |
| 23:08.08 | brian__ | mortak is it installed? |
| 23:08.09 | Mortak | brian__: ill try it tomorrow |
| 23:08.13 | brian__ | o |
| 23:08.43 | brian__ | 49 percent more an ima trying it |
| 23:09.19 | *** join/#openmoko batti (n=batti@p5B14AB77.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:09.52 | quatrox | Nota bene: I am not sure if the images are ok |
| 23:10.00 | badcloud | who do I thank for the suspend fix? |
| 23:10.15 | brian__ | ok |
| 23:10.22 | brian__ | i understand |
| 23:10.28 | badcloud | or rather the wake on event |
| 23:11.15 | badcloud | well, whomever, thank you |
| 23:11.18 | badcloud | and good night |
| 23:11.45 | *** part/#openmoko badcloud (n=bla@ti400720a342-0283.bb.online.no) |
| 23:13.00 | *** join/#openmoko peppertarts (n=peter@strapp.plus.com) |
| 23:14.39 | gurugentoo | any ideas for mounting the phone on a bike? |
| 23:15.04 | cjb | gurugentoo: see the comments on http://blog.printf.net/articles/2008/08/11/an-openmoko-bike-ride |
| 23:15.08 | cjb | there's also a mailing list thread |
| 23:16.46 | gurugentoo | sweet |
| 23:19.17 | elektranox | gurugentoo: http://elektranox.org/blog/?p=3 |
| 23:23.14 | gurugentoo | elektranox: that looks nice and easy... |
| 23:23.20 | gurugentoo | hmm |
| 23:23.49 | Mortak | i need one for my car :) |
| 23:25.00 | elektranox | gurugentoo: I can turn arround my bike and Freerunner will stay in the mounting :) |
| 23:25.45 | Dave | Mortak! |
| 23:26.00 | Mortak | Dave: ! |
| 23:26.10 | CVirus | Dave: ! |
| 23:26.16 | CVirus | it's me .. Wirus |
| 23:28.55 | *** join/#openmoko TeLLuS (n=Johan@179.108.227.87.static.f.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 23:33.51 | Dave | It's you! |
| 23:33.59 | Dave | I see you there, spreading your evil! |
| 23:35.43 | *** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i577B533E.versanet.de) |
| 23:40.43 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03mirko 07org.openmoko.dev * r559877790475 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: changed git revision for paroli -- PIN fix |
| 23:46.31 | *** join/#openmoko Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) |
| 23:46.49 | mirko-paroli | n8 everyone |
| 23:47.29 | rob79 | gn8 |
| 23:47.56 | mirko-paroli | rob79 till the next error ;) |
| 23:49.30 | *** join/#openmoko loca|host (n=tux@41.226.189.162) |
| 23:57.40 | *** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net) |
