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| 00:30.14 | kd8ikt | <PROTECTED> |
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| 01:04.00 | StealthCP | need some help with my SHR, looking for a photo browser |
| 01:04.22 | StealthCP | and perhaps a nicer media player, is it possible to use the one from Qtopia? |
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| 01:29.28 | kd8ikt | http://www.opkg.org/category_4.html |
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| 01:55.35 | rooly|away | SOOooooo |
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| 01:59.35 | max_posedon | I'm SHR user, just did opkg update && opkg upgrade, but phonelog still doesn't working |
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| 01:59.58 | max_posedon | error : `The name org.smartphone.opimd was not provided` |
| 02:00.09 | pingvid | aloha all |
| 02:00.17 | rooly|away | allo |
| 02:00.25 | pingvid | who's looking for a job that can script like a sonofabitch |
| 02:00.45 | pingvid | apparently no t 'gopi' |
| 02:00.51 | rooly|away | i can script like a kid...and i'm male...but my mother isn't a dog so... |
| 02:01.07 | pingvid | im hearing a lot of potential |
| 02:01.14 | rooly|away | 'not i' said the dog |
| 02:01.15 | pingvid | you can script in flash? |
| 02:02.01 | rooly|away | jesus christ man. i just said no |
| 02:02.12 | pingvid | it was kinda confusing |
| 02:02.19 | pingvid | i can script like a kid... etc |
| 02:02.34 | rooly|away | that was more a pun |
| 02:02.36 | rooly|away | watch this: |
| 02:02.55 | rooly|away | script like a kid...script kid...script-kiddie |
| 02:04.05 | rooly|away | well |
| 02:04.07 | rooly|away | i thought it was funny |
| 02:04.46 | pingvid | deff dont quit yur day job to be a comedian |
| 02:05.16 | rooly|away | anywho, pingvid maybe you chould check out the developr's channel, or possibly one of the foss flash player communities |
| 02:05.25 | pingvid | wheres that? |
| 02:05.36 | rooly|away | check the topic |
| 02:06.06 | rooly|away | #openmoko-cdevel |
| 02:06.08 | *** join/#openmoko Defiant- (i=erik@c212157.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 02:06.17 | pingvid | thanks |
| 02:06.18 | pingvid | my bad |
| 02:06.22 | rooly|away | np |
| 02:06.24 | rooly|away | here to help |
| 02:07.36 | rooly|away | mmm mm mmm tgif spinach dip |
| 02:08.20 | pingvid | haha dream big buf |
| 02:08.21 | pingvid | bud |
| 02:09.00 | rooly|away | i can't help it...i'm a rather large person |
| 02:09.27 | pingvid | whatever dude - i wish i had a TGIF near me |
| 02:09.38 | rooly|away | oh....i got this from wall mart |
| 02:09.46 | pingvid | either way |
| 02:09.51 | pingvid | fucking canada. |
| 02:10.04 | rooly|away | it IS canada's fault |
| 02:10.17 | rooly|away | whats that phone company that's really asshole-ish in canada? |
| 02:11.59 | pingvid | all |
| 02:12.02 | pingvid | there are three |
| 02:12.08 | pingvid | and the three own all of the little ones |
| 02:12.10 | pingvid | rogers |
| 02:12.11 | pingvid | telus |
| 02:12.30 | rooly|away | mr. rogers telephone company |
| 02:12.34 | pingvid | yes |
| 02:13.23 | pingvid | i gotta get me some wallmart |
| 02:14.02 | rooly|away | try sam's club. then you can get a pallete of tgif spinach dip |
| 02:14.17 | pingvid | while im at it... why dont i just go see lady liberty |
| 02:14.39 | rooly|away | and eat some good ol' fashoined new york pizza |
| 02:15.10 | rooly|away | hey, and since you'll be in the neighborhood, stop by LA and Miami |
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| 02:17.58 | pingvid | yeah.. maybe boston? |
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| 03:06.09 | ncrfgs | hi |
| 03:06.22 | ncrfgs | I've read about openmoko on the web, and about the freerunner |
| 03:06.31 | rooly | its a wip |
| 03:06.51 | SpeedEvil | wips rooly. |
| 03:06.59 | ncrfgs | could you pls give me an idea of how do you backup sms and phonebook on your freerunner on a GNU/Linux machine? |
| 03:07.00 | kd8ikt | whip* |
| 03:07.07 | SpeedEvil | rsync |
| 03:07.15 | SpeedEvil | ncrfgs: basically. |
| 03:07.34 | ncrfgs | they're saved as single file? |
| 03:07.47 | SpeedEvil | ncrfgs: it's not yet at the point where you'd expect to be able to give the phone to a sane person and have them use it as their everyday phone. |
| 03:08.05 | rooly | in the current stack, yeah, its just a big sql database |
| 03:09.06 | raster | wips SpeedEvil |
| 03:09.13 | raster | <- king of wip |
| 03:09.23 | ncrfgs | ok, so let's say I have some ingoing and outgoing messages plus missed/received/dialed calles in my sql database on the FR |
| 03:09.42 | ncrfgs | what I have to do is plugging the SD card in some card reader and backup its content? |
| 03:09.44 | SpeedEvil | ncrfgs: what work is being done at the moment is on the phone |
| 03:09.48 | rooly | asuming your using some qtopia-based stack, of course |
| 03:09.51 | raster | that'd be amazing |
| 03:09.59 | raster | it'd imply the phone works reliably :) |
| 03:10.10 | SpeedEvil | ncrfgs: little work is being done on porting stuff to other phones, or desktop interaction at the moment. |
| 03:10.31 | SpeedEvil | ncrfgs: in many ways at the moment, most of the software stacks TOTALLY FAIL in major ways. |
| 03:10.47 | raster | if u plug into usb |
| 03:10.50 | SpeedEvil | Some will occasionally work for some people for limited uses. |
| 03:10.50 | raster | u get usbnet |
| 03:10.55 | raster | ie an ethernet device |
| 03:10.59 | raster | ifconfig usb0 up |
| 03:11.02 | raster | with the right ip |
| 03:11.05 | raster | add a route |
| 03:11.08 | raster | bingo - u can ssh in |
| 03:11.13 | raster | and scp stuff back and forth |
| 03:11.23 | *** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.172.10.37) |
| 03:11.48 | SpeedEvil | But if you want a phone you can give your somewhat computer literate (can work firefox) mother, it's not there yet. At all. |
| 03:12.08 | ncrfgs | oh nono |
| 03:12.42 | ncrfgs | it's just that my nokia 8310 phone has recently left me :( |
| 03:13.00 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 03:13.01 | raster | so the FR would be your only working phone? |
| 03:13.04 | ncrfgs | and I've been considering for some time to using Free Software on my mobile as well |
| 03:13.09 | rooly | if you want a phone to make you crazy, mad, annoyed, upset, stressed, and angry, but still love it, then you probably need a wife, not the FR |
| 03:13.23 | *** join/#openmoko weihsiu (n=walter@61-219-17-40.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 03:13.30 | ncrfgs | so I though this was the good occasion to get a FR |
| 03:13.31 | rooly | raster, some of us use the FR reliably |
| 03:13.44 | SpeedEvil | I've not heard anything saying 'FR after x/y/z' will ship with buzz fixes |
| 03:13.50 | SpeedEvil | that is a showstopper for some people |
| 03:14.09 | SpeedEvil | and you don't know if it's a showstopper before you buy, as it seems to affect some people variably. |
| 03:14.14 | raster | to date i have yet to see my FR reliably wake from suspend every single time |
| 03:14.19 | rooly | yeah, but some people are bitches |
| 03:14.27 | raster | at least 1 in 10 or 20 or so it will hang solid |
| 03:14.46 | rooly | it's been working fine for me for the last few weeks |
| 03:15.02 | rooly | running mwester's kernel (not optimized) and qtopia 4.3.2 |
| 03:15.04 | dufflebunk | raster: I didn't have any problems when I was using QT, 2008.12 seems to have some problems though |
| 03:15.29 | *** join/#openmoko Isajha (n=Isajha4@wrzb-d933d66f.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 03:15.56 | raster | i have qt on my day-to-day phone |
| 03:15.58 | rooly | raster, i do reboot daily tho, seeing as 4.3.2 doesn't always download sms when receiving them and waking up at the same time |
| 03:16.00 | raster | (motorola) |
| 03:16.07 | raster | and.. .that is one thing i do NOT want |
| 03:16.21 | raster | i've made my mind up about qt after having used it long enough :) |
| 03:16.35 | rooly | oh believe me, i don't want to use ity |
| 03:16.52 | rooly | but i also need a decently reliable phone and openmoko simply does not provide that |
| 03:17.30 | ncrfgs | mmm as long as it saves in/outgoing sms and phonecalls reliably np, it can shutdown during a phonecall it's ok :) |
| 03:17.35 | rooly | plus i like my bluetooth |
| 03:17.40 | *** join/#openmoko lloyd_fedora (n=darkstar@123.236.13.108) |
| 03:20.09 | ncrfgs | rooly, ity = ? |
| 03:20.25 | rooly | *it |
| 03:21.07 | ncrfgs | what did you mean with decently reliable BTW? I mean, does it occasionally reboot? |
| 03:21.54 | rooly | i manually reboot at least once a day |
| 03:22.17 | ncrfgs | does it lose your data? |
| 03:22.18 | rooly | i don't really NEED to, per se, but it doesn't always receive sms correctly when that sms causes a wakeup |
| 03:22.23 | rooly | nope, hasn't yet |
| 03:22.39 | rooly | as soon as the first sms goes thru correctly, you get all the ones before it that didn't receive tho |
| 03:22.51 | SpeedEvil | (for most users) there are issues with dropped calls, battery life, suspend, ... |
| 03:22.59 | SpeedEvil | Some of which make the phone unusable for some users |
| 03:23.24 | ncrfgs | sorry for my poor english, dropped calls = the call get terminated for no reason? |
| 03:23.40 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@adsl-75-62-0-61.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:23.49 | raster | i think most people will tell u |
| 03:23.54 | raster | get an FR as a cool toy to hack |
| 03:24.01 | raster | dont get it as a replacement of your daily phone |
| 03:24.07 | raster | not unless you like to deal with issues |
| 03:24.11 | raster | reboots |
| 03:24.11 | rooly | unless your crazy like rooly |
| 03:24.14 | raster | debugging |
| 03:24.19 | raster | buzz noises |
| 03:24.28 | MichaelShiloh | yo |
| 03:24.29 | ncrfgs | I use my phone very little |
| 03:24.35 | rooly | all trivial |
| 03:24.36 | raster | and are in love with the fr so much you overlook the problems |
| 03:24.48 | raster | then its fine |
| 03:24.49 | dufflebunk | I use use it as a day to day phone, but I don't use it much, and don't need it to be terribly reliable. |
| 03:24.50 | rooly | i can talk louder |
| 03:24.53 | raster | if you want a phone that works reliably |
| 03:25.00 | raster | like most other consumer phones |
| 03:25.03 | rooly | get a motorola v180 |
| 03:25.03 | raster | fr is not for you |
| 03:25.08 | MichaelShiloh | anyone seeing Ticket #1691 with 2008.12? |
| 03:25.11 | raster | suggestion is buy a normal consumer phone |
| 03:25.12 | rooly | god that was the best phone i've ever had |
| 03:25.13 | raster | and a Fr to play with |
| 03:25.34 | ncrfgs | rooly do you use a motorola v180 as everyday phone? |
| 03:25.43 | rooly | no |
| 03:25.48 | rooly | i use my FR as my everday phone |
| 03:25.50 | rooly | but i'm crazy |
| 03:26.09 | SpeedEvil | points his insanometer at rooly, and it melts. |
| 03:26.13 | rooly | plus i have the blind luck of having a good sim card, and a pretty decent network |
| 03:26.23 | rooly | at&t |
| 03:26.40 | ncrfgs | mmm I'm sorry I don't mean to be repetitive but I'm a bit confused |
| 03:26.48 | SpeedEvil | np |
| 03:26.51 | rooly | don't do what i do! |
| 03:27.17 | raster | i thnk i have thouroughly hated every phone i've ever had |
| 03:27.26 | raster | each one had "Something" cool about it |
| 03:27.31 | raster | and then was let down everywhere else |
| 03:27.50 | rooly | the thing about the FR is that it has the potential to be TOTALLY AWESOME |
| 03:27.55 | rooly | but seriously, asu sucks |
| 03:27.58 | SpeedEvil | passes raster a phone. http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=287 |
| 03:28.19 | raster | SpeedEvil: the zoom? |
| 03:28.34 | raster | (slow internude... will take 10 mins until that page loads) |
| 03:28.51 | rooly | i should probably right my own efl package to make asu act like a phone and not a silly desktop-esqu screen |
| 03:28.55 | SpeedEvil | 'Description: The infamous Portable Rotary Phone is an original rotary phone that has been modified to be a cellular phone. The Port-O-Rotary has a functional rotary dial, rings the original, loud metallic bells when a call is received, and even has a dial tone.' |
| 03:28.57 | dufflebunk | MichaelShiloh: I can't say I've ever had that problem, except when I'm screwing around with gsm mux and gprs |
| 03:29.12 | muxe | mux mux |
| 03:29.24 | raster | oooh |
| 03:29.27 | raster | hhahaha |
| 03:29.34 | raster | MichaelShiloh: yo mich! |
| 03:29.51 | MichaelShiloh | dufflebunk: this is a freshly flashed phone but i did try to run something. perhaps accidentally invoked the mux. i'll try a reflash. |
| 03:29.53 | ncrfgs | so I apologize in advance, but, I don't know of any consumer phone which uses Free Software, I don't need the FR (dunno how to say) to meet exagerated requirements I'd say |
| 03:29.59 | ncrfgs | I call very seldomly |
| 03:30.09 | ncrfgs | I just need to exchange a couple of sms a day |
| 03:30.15 | ncrfgs | and to backup them with ease |
| 03:30.19 | SpeedEvil | ncrfgs: quite a lot use free software |
| 03:30.28 | SpeedEvil | ncrfgs: but don't let you run software on them |
| 03:30.41 | rooly | ncrfgs, this phone is not for you |
| 03:30.42 | SpeedEvil | ncrfgs: a substantial fraction of new phones are linux in some form |
| 03:30.42 | rooly | not yet |
| 03:30.45 | rooly | give us a while longer |
| 03:30.55 | ncrfgs | along with backing up phonebook and phone calls |
| 03:31.08 | dufflebunk | MichaelShiloh: I don't think it's installed by default. So your problem is probably not what I've seen. |
| 03:31.28 | raster | SpeedEvil: i have ready numebrs of something like 50% of phones in unit volume are linux based |
| 03:31.35 | raster | of currently produced phones |
| 03:31.43 | rooly | thanks to nokia |
| 03:31.49 | SpeedEvil | Sounds plausible. |
| 03:31.52 | raster | (though most of those you dont see in the west - they are all floating around china/asia/japan) |
| 03:31.53 | balrog-kun | wow |
| 03:32.05 | raster | and yes |
| 03:32.09 | MichaelShiloh | dufflebunk: but you've given me the idea that i did do something, and a reflash might clear it up, then i can try to reproduce. thanks! |
| 03:32.10 | ncrfgs | is FR ready to meet those requirements as far as you can tell? or do you know of any cheap phone (I know FR isn't cheap but I would prefer not spending a lot for a not Free phone) which would allow me to easilly backup sms and phonebook/calls? |
| 03:32.11 | raster | totally closed systems |
| 03:33.01 | rooly | ncrfgs, no, the FR is not for you. you can *technically* back them up, but the trouble is not worth it since you can't access them after |
| 03:33.13 | dufflebunk | *LOL* |
| 03:33.14 | ncrfgs | why I can't access them? |
| 03:33.17 | rooly | however, i wouldn't be able to tell you what phone to use instead |
| 03:33.30 | ncrfgs | I mean if I backup the whole sql database I can access them with some sql queries can't I? |
| 03:33.56 | raster | SpeedEvil: did you get a beagleboard? |
| 03:34.00 | rooly | lemme rephrase, the trouble you would have to go thru to retrieve it would be wholey not worth it |
| 03:34.35 | rooly | but it is possible |
| 03:34.40 | ncrfgs | isn't just a matter of usbnet / ifconfig / scp? |
| 03:34.42 | rooly | the capability exists |
| 03:34.47 | rooly | pretty much |
| 03:34.47 | SpeedEvil | raster: I'm sharply limited on toys I can buy - owing to tiny disposable income, so no. I'd like one, but... |
| 03:35.11 | rooly | plus you have to find the database file, which may or may not be separated into hundred of peices |
| 03:35.19 | ncrfgs | :( |
| 03:35.27 | raster | SpeedEvil: ooh bugger - so still playing with your low end pic/fpga/pmu level devices? |
| 03:35.34 | SpeedEvil | raster: ATM, yes. |
| 03:39.56 | *** join/#openmoko orzing (n=orzing@220-132-135-169.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 03:46.39 | *** join/#openmoko Shlee (n=MrShlee@122-49-141-37.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 03:47.00 | rooly | so,... |
| 03:47.01 | rooly | yeah |
| 03:47.06 | Dave | drooly |
| 03:47.10 | rooly | the FR is on engadget again |
| 03:47.18 | rooly | blurry-camming android |
| 03:47.22 | rooly | oh the shame |
| 03:47.25 | *** join/#openmoko pcfe` (n=pcfe@a83-245-166-133.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 03:47.35 | Dave | meh :p |
| 03:47.45 | rooly | its like having a picture on the internet of balls in your mouth |
| 03:47.51 | Dave | In the end, you're all whores. |
| 03:51.48 | rooly | christ. people have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to devices |
| 03:51.54 | rooly | here's a quote |
| 03:52.05 | rooly | Now you need to have at least EDGE to compete as a smartphone, |
| 03:52.43 | rooly | since when did the FR start getting marketed to idiot middlemanagent types as a smartphone? |
| 03:52.59 | rooly | or that it is competing |
| 03:56.37 | Dave | haha |
| 03:56.58 | Dave | I was just looking over the "Best selling phones" of 2008... it's pretty sad, dismal, and pathetic. |
| 03:57.11 | Dave | I would never pay $400-500 dollars for any of them. |
| 03:57.54 | rooly | mind sending me that link? |
| 03:59.23 | Dave | Well, I was just going by the best sellers section of mobiledia, which for all intents and purposes here (US), it's fairly conclusive. |
| 03:59.41 | Dave | If anything it just provides a fair glimpse of how pathetic the mfc/markets are. |
| 03:59.46 | Dave | Sad as they may be :[ |
| 04:01.33 | Dave | The market really is, 85% Hey want yet another iPhone knock-off? 12% is hey, want a cool new looking phone but which actually sucks, and 3% is hey want the same old shit but with a crummier camera? |
| 04:01.37 | Dave | -_-; |
| 04:01.59 | Dave | AWESOME |
| 04:02.30 | rooly | lol |
| 04:02.53 | rooly | about the ONLY phone i'ave actually wanted, ever, is the new blackberry |
| 04:03.09 | rooly | aside from my FR, of course |
| 04:03.43 | mwester | never actually wanted the phone he likes the best. |
| 04:04.07 | rooly | now, my favorite phone of all time is the motorola v180 |
| 04:05.46 | mwester | The company issued Treos -- you used it, or you paid for your own cell calls. So I took it. And I found that I really really liked the Treos. I still think that while it's very dated now, the Treo 650 is still right up there with the best of the smartphones. We (opnemko community) would do well to model our UIs and user interactions after some of the features of the Treo. |
| 04:06.26 | rooly | well |
| 04:06.27 | rooly | why |
| 04:06.28 | rooly | don't |
| 04:06.29 | rooly | we |
| 04:07.02 | Dave | Because raster isn't running the show... |
| 04:07.05 | Dave | I mean *sssssssssssh* |
| 04:07.11 | Dave | (Don't tell Sean that) ;) |
| 04:07.30 | rooly | exactly |
| 04:07.38 | rooly | i don't care if i get banned |
| 04:07.42 | rooly | ASU SUCKS! |
| 04:08.00 | rooly | the gtk UI should have been kept, or at least adapted, to maintain useability |
| 04:08.10 | rooly | the interface should have at least been maintained |
| 04:08.18 | rooly | now...icons just get lost |
| 04:08.36 | rooly | want to dial a number? have more than 10 programs installed? good luck finding the icon! |
| 04:08.37 | Dave | duh |
| 04:08.54 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-76-200-143-210.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:08.55 | Dave | haha |
| 04:09.02 | Dave | You tell 'em, rooly! |
| 04:09.59 | rooly | can someone tell me why exactly did they abandon the gtk interface |
| 04:10.51 | Dave | sssssssh |
| 04:11.09 | Dave | quiet... or you'll reawaken the holy war, either that, or the wester :p |
| 04:11.44 | Dave | We've all gone on many-a-tirades about this very issue, time and time again. |
| 04:11.54 | rooly | i realize it was slow |
| 04:12.08 | Dave | It all comes down to, yeah yeah, Openmoko was, in this particular case, stupid (made poor decisions and yeah well, I think the lightbulb joke on the wiki/Jokes page sums it up pretty nicely) :) |
| 04:12.22 | rooly | ic |
| 04:12.25 | raster | Dave: would you pay $800 for somethng totally awesome? |
| 04:12.25 | raster | :) |
| 04:12.30 | Dave | Perhaps |
| 04:12.34 | Dave | IS IT A PANDORA? |
| 04:12.41 | rooly | yeah, the lightbulb joke does sum it up |
| 04:12.56 | raster | lets say its the same as a pandora |
| 04:12.59 | raster | just smaller screen |
| 04:13.02 | raster | and with 3g |
| 04:13.14 | Dave | oh snap? |
| 04:13.20 | Dave | Are you designing it? |
| 04:13.24 | raster | and a really awesome aluminium milled case |
| 04:13.27 | Dave | building it? |
| 04:13.35 | rooly | was that a six or an 8 |
| 04:13.36 | Dave | RAISING AN UNSTOPPABLE ARMY OF THEM? |
| 04:13.38 | raster | (well with plastic bits and holes for RF...) |
| 04:13.38 | rooly | eight |
| 04:14.57 | rooly | raster, does it run linux? |
| 04:17.00 | raster | lets assume it does |
| 04:17.04 | raster | and uses X |
| 04:17.08 | raster | so u can sue any wm/ui u like |
| 04:17.11 | raster | or if u like qt |
| 04:17.15 | rooly | oh, well that throws the iphone out of it |
| 04:17.18 | raster | or android |
| 04:17.21 | raster | though it'd be nicer if everyone just ran under x |
| 04:17.27 | Dave | Raster, where do I sign my soul away? :) |
| 04:17.29 | raster | so u could have "qt in a window" |
| 04:17.30 | rooly | yes, it would |
| 04:17.37 | raster | or "android in a window" |
| 04:17.39 | raster | :) |
| 04:17.57 | Dave | Oh and raster, does this include the model design we came up with that one night for a transparent tacticle keyboard - touchscreen interface? :) |
| 04:17.58 | Digital_Pioneer | Everything runs Linux... Most servers... Embedded systems... The PS3 and xBox.... Even microsoft.com runs on Linux. |
| 04:18.24 | Dave | Digital, yes, even the most blasphemous of systems/corporations :) |
| 04:18.28 | rooly | but does it blend |
| 04:18.34 | Dave | rooly, everything blends. |
| 04:18.39 | *** join/#openmoko chouchen (n=chatzill@61.153.22.67) |
| 04:18.40 | Dave | but |
| 04:18.44 | Dave | Does it IMPLODE? |
| 04:18.46 | Dave | :D |
| 04:18.51 | raster | Dave: unknown :) |
| 04:19.07 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 04:19.09 | Dave | Raster, aww, I thought we had something going there on that rather creative design we concocted. |
| 04:19.12 | Digital_Pioneer | Dave: Even the creator of windoze can't live without Linux driving their computers... I love it. |
| 04:19.24 | Dave | Yes, hi-larious. |
| 04:22.24 | raster | Dave: mechanically tough |
| 04:22.27 | raster | but lets see |
| 04:22.46 | raster | just wonderign if $800 is a pricepoint willing ot be paid for |
| 04:22.53 | raster | thats about what the iphone costs |
| 04:22.53 | *** join/#openmoko RedDog (n=reddog@mastersword.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:22.55 | raster | if you guy it outright |
| 04:22.57 | rooly | is that an eight or a six! |
| 04:22.58 | raster | buy |
| 04:23.08 | *** join/#openmoko viq (n=viq@unaffiliated/viq) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:23.24 | Dave | yeah :\ |
| 04:23.30 | Dave | rooly, what the hell are you talking about? |
| 04:23.31 | rooly | i can't really tell, i'm on a really crappy 20" tv |
| 04:23.39 | rooly | 800 or 600 |
| 04:23.53 | Dave | $800 |
| 04:23.54 | Dave | EIGHT |
| 04:23.57 | rooly | thanks |
| 04:23.59 | Dave | EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARUS |
| 04:24.13 | Dave | or so raster claimed |
| 04:24.34 | Dave | Though I figure he is merely theorizing/fantasizing at this point. |
| 04:24.42 | SpeedEvil | IIRC the iphone 3G teardowns indicated a price of maybe $150 |
| 04:24.42 | Dave | Isn't that right, Mr. Raster? :) |
| 04:24.45 | SpeedEvil | For the hardware |
| 04:24.53 | Dave | haha, really? |
| 04:24.58 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 04:25.02 | Dave | Likely because they produce so many of them, right? |
| 04:25.09 | SpeedEvil | That helps lots, yes. |
| 04:25.13 | rooly | people ask me why i would pay 400$ for a phone that doesn't work |
| 04:25.13 | Dave | yeah |
| 04:25.39 | rooly | i look at them with an iphone and ask why they would pay 600 for a phone that is so crippled, it could never do what i want my phone to do |
| 04:25.42 | Dave | and iphone for me would cost about $800 shipped from Japan. |
| 04:25.46 | Dave | or under that, from China. |
| 04:25.48 | *** join/#openmoko jonsmith1982 (n=jon@82-38-88-58.cable.ubr01.donc.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 04:26.00 | SpeedEvil | If you say 'We're thinking of putting your chip into our new iphone'. Your competitor has offered a price of $3/chip. What can you do. |
| 04:26.14 | raster | SpeedEvil: cost of components |
| 04:26.15 | SpeedEvil | Then you're going to bend over backwards to get under $3. |
| 04:26.25 | Dave | assholes |
| 04:26.25 | raster | and thats buying in millions of units quantities |
| 04:26.31 | Dave | yeah yeah |
| 04:26.32 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 04:26.39 | Dave | :( |
| 04:27.28 | raster | if u produce something that only has lets say 10k or 20k units |
| 04:27.28 | raster | instead of 10million |
| 04:27.31 | raster | your prices are MUCH higher |
| 04:27.47 | raster | also rememebr that if u do moulds an injection mold is somewhere in the range of 60-150k |
| 04:27.51 | raster | just to mave it made |
| 04:27.56 | raster | every case costs like $0.2 |
| 04:28.00 | Dave | haha |
| 04:28.01 | raster | but the setup costs are high |
| 04:28.08 | raster | do short runs and your costs per unit are very high |
| 04:28.09 | Dave | yeah :\ |
| 04:28.12 | raster | same with 3g |
| 04:28.15 | raster | ans soc |
| 04:28.16 | Dave | ick |
| 04:28.18 | raster | and all the other bits |
| 04:28.21 | Dave | so, uhh |
| 04:28.31 | raster | thus pice for small runs will always be high |
| 04:28.39 | raster | so mayaswell just take top-of-the-line components |
| 04:28.42 | Dave | raster, and multitouchscreen displays? :) |
| 04:28.45 | raster | that cost mroe anywaye |
| 04:28.49 | raster | and make it somethng premium |
| 04:28.50 | Dave | raster, agreed. |
| 04:29.03 | Dave | Cadillac, baby |
| 04:29.10 | rooly | raster, what kind of touch? |
| 04:29.13 | *** join/#openmoko paulproteus (n=paulprot@2002:db69:2513:0:0:0:0:1) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 04:30.13 | rooly | capacitive or pressure |
| 04:30.15 | raster | capacitive |
| 04:30.20 | Dave | raster likes to touch ;p |
| 04:30.23 | raster | so likely able to do multitouch |
| 04:30.29 | raster | pressure is just not worht it |
| 04:30.32 | Dave | oh oh |
| 04:30.38 | raster | touches his pussy |
| 04:30.39 | Dave | and multi-color led's please!! |
| 04:30.44 | Dave | ;p |
| 04:30.52 | Dave | Raster - I DEMAND THIS! |
| 04:30.58 | raster | pussy purrs |
| 04:31.13 | Dave | wtf, mine moos o_O |
| 04:31.20 | raster | was mulling somethng like a 3" or 3.5" screen |
| 04:31.33 | raster | so far cant find the 320x640 3.5" i've seen |
| 04:31.39 | raster | but the 3" 272x480 is out there |
| 04:31.47 | Dave | aww |
| 04:31.53 | Dave | yeah, but |
| 04:31.55 | rooly | vga, qvga, or better |
| 04:31.59 | Dave | you can't settle... |
| 04:32.21 | SpeedEvil | 8.9" screens are cheap :) |
| 04:32.31 | Dave | enter the netbooks |
| 04:33.05 | rooly | anyway |
| 04:33.08 | rooly | you guys mull it over |
| 04:33.16 | raster | i';d like 320x640 |
| 04:33.19 | rooly | but as far as i'm concerned, 3g is pointless |
| 04:33.21 | raster | but i cant find it anywhere |
| 04:33.26 | rooly | its still freakin dialup |
| 04:33.28 | raster | i can find the 272x480 |
| 04:33.32 | Dave | I could totally see raster an I opening up a secret shop |
| 04:33.34 | raster | so almost iphone res |
| 04:33.38 | raster | (320x480) |
| 04:33.42 | raster | but smaller screen |
| 04:33.47 | raster | (3" vs 3.5 for iphone) |
| 04:33.56 | rooly | okay, one quick test |
| 04:34.09 | rooly | ping using FR's grps gets between 400 and 700 |
| 04:34.10 | Dave | Raster, where's my 320x640? |
| 04:34.13 | raster | rooly: vast numebr of peolpe disagree |
| 04:34.16 | rooly | and a little higher for the first packet |
| 04:34.16 | Dave | rooly, nice |
| 04:34.19 | raster | and as such.. a vast amount of $ disagrees |
| 04:34.25 | raster | ie "no 3g - and no sale" |
| 04:34.36 | Dave | 3g blows |
| 04:34.41 | Dave | It's all about 4G now, baby! |
| 04:34.46 | rooly | my computer running off of a 3g air card gets 250 ping |
| 04:34.51 | rooly | so... |
| 04:34.55 | rooly | no, not worth it |
| 04:34.59 | rooly | cause its STILL DIALUP |
| 04:35.00 | Dave | that blows |
| 04:35.02 | Dave | hahaha |
| 04:35.08 | Dave | Rooly, where the hell do you live then? |
| 04:35.10 | mwester | Oh the heck with 3G and 4G -- I have 21G here! |
| 04:35.14 | raster | which 3g? |
| 04:35.16 | rooly | i'm in mississippi |
| 04:35.20 | Dave | the MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON |
| 04:35.22 | rooly | at&t |
| 04:35.26 | mwester | Ajnd I'll be upgrading to 97G soon! |
| 04:35.27 | raster | umts? hspa? |
| 04:35.29 | Dave | oh and yeah, EVDO > 3G |
| 04:35.33 | Dave | :P~ |
| 04:35.35 | rooly | hell if i know |
| 04:35.37 | raster | telcos want 3g |
| 04:35.39 | rooly | at&t aircard |
| 04:35.40 | Dave | backwater telcos? |
| 04:35.45 | raster | they want to get data the hell off their 2g networks |
| 04:35.49 | Dave | yeehaw? |
| 04:35.54 | Dave | yeah |
| 04:36.11 | mwester | thinks all the hype about "G"s is silly when data plans are so outrageously priced, that's what's really holding back the technology. :( |
| 04:36.17 | Dave | Raster, a friend of mine wrote a paper last year on methods for desaturation using 3G infrastructure and something |
| 04:36.20 | raster | hdpa is 7.2mbit |
| 04:36.24 | rooly | agreed, mwester |
| 04:36.24 | raster | hsupa |
| 04:36.26 | Digital_Pioneer | mwester: Hear hear. |
| 04:36.27 | raster | i mean |
| 04:36.28 | SpeedEvil | Data plans have to be expensive on some networks. |
| 04:36.31 | Dave | mester, yeah, the companies are holding it back! |
| 04:36.38 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise all that happens is the data saturates the net |
| 04:36.38 | rooly | i'd happily accept dialup if it didn't cost 50$'s a month |
| 04:36.41 | raster | mwester: indeed |
| 04:36.42 | Dave | Speedevil, no, no they don't, not here. |
| 04:36.55 | raster | mwester: htough as such theres a factor of 100-200x more for 2g data than 3g here |
| 04:37.00 | raster | in cost |
| 04:37.05 | Dave | Not when there's fiber running under everyone's ass (at least in the civilized parts of the wor... country). |
| 04:37.05 | raster | so... 3g or bust |
| 04:37.10 | Digital_Pioneer | My stupid plan gives me 1.95 cents/kb. I don't use GPRS. :P |
| 04:37.14 | SpeedEvil | Dave: fibre is irrelevant |
| 04:37.23 | SpeedEvil | Dave: the important part is the spectrum. |
| 04:37.27 | Dave | blah |
| 04:37.34 | SpeedEvil | Dave: you can only push so many megabytes/second out of a tower. |
| 04:37.41 | SpeedEvil | Dave: that can either be voice calls or data |
| 04:37.45 | Dave | I'll just sit here content, in my compound, with my sat phone, thank you very much. |
| 04:37.47 | SpeedEvil | Dave: straight swap |
| 04:38.08 | Dave | Speedevil, first get rid of CDMA. |
| 04:38.17 | pingvid | did anyone read the scam of the century - that text messages cost networks nothing http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/12/text-messages-c.html |
| 04:38.22 | pingvid | i know im coming in the middle of a convo |
| 04:38.25 | Dave | oh and convince 60% of the market to throw out all their infrastructure and income. |
| 04:38.34 | Dave | then things will start moving. |
| 04:38.49 | SpeedEvil | text messages cost nothing. |
| 04:38.59 | SpeedEvil | But lacking text messages, prices for other stuff needs to risrt |
| 04:39.24 | pingvid | u dont know what its like in canada- there a monopoly on the companies - theyre astronomical |
| 04:39.36 | pingvid | the full article on texting is http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/business/28digi.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1230611928-2cEC3D72BVEImwKFGh1SIw |
| 04:39.46 | raster | Dave: http://www.tarakash.com/josh/20081201863/Gadgets/Nokia-launches-true-iPhone-Killer-5800-XpressMusic.html |
| 04:39.53 | Dave | Speedevil, here's a thought, if you convinced more and more of the population to use TTY, would that improve things? |
| 04:40.44 | Digital_Pioneer | pingvid: How am I not surprised? |
| 04:41.05 | Digital_Pioneer | And I'm sure data transfer plans don't cost telcos a thousandth of what they charge. |
| 04:41.13 | Dave | oh snap? |
| 04:41.14 | pingvid | i dont know about that |
| 04:41.24 | pingvid | theyve got fuckloads of overheads but yeah - its a mafia |
| 04:41.39 | Dave | pingvid just hit it right on the head :) |
| 04:41.49 | Dave | I was about to respond, Digital Pioneer, but that's it. :) |
| 04:42.02 | pingvid | pingvid to the rescue! |
| 04:42.07 | Dave | Raster, oh and I've seen that before, yes :) |
| 04:42.08 | Dave | hah |
| 04:42.46 | pingvid | man cnn is some depressing shit |
| 04:43.27 | rooly | you mean you still actually watch tv news? |
| 04:43.30 | Dave | Raster, haha... wow, I was just about to say Pastor... |
| 04:43.33 | rooly | i stopped doing that years ago |
| 04:43.40 | pingvid | haha - background while on ninjavideo |
| 04:43.41 | Dave | (which, strangely, would have been seemingly accurate) |
| 04:43.42 | pingvid | but yeah |
| 04:43.47 | pingvid | im analog like that |
| 04:43.50 | Dave | Anyway, raster, have you gotten your hands on one of those yet? |
| 04:43.58 | Dave | played with one, or tried things out? |
| 04:44.29 | *** join/#openmoko leavittx (n=leavittx@11-113.admiral.tvoe.tv) |
| 04:44.38 | raster | it has a 2.5" 320x640 lcd |
| 04:44.46 | raster | if i can find a supplier |
| 04:44.49 | raster | i'm set |
| 04:44.51 | pingvid | whats this? |
| 04:44.52 | raster | thats a 1st choice |
| 04:44.57 | raster | err |
| 04:44.59 | raster | 3.5" |
| 04:45.06 | raster | and no - i havent |
| 04:45.48 | raster | just looking for an lcd |
| 04:45.58 | pingvid | monitor? |
| 04:46.10 | rooly | yes |
| 04:46.16 | raster | no |
| 04:46.22 | rooly | a 3.5" lcd moniter running at 320x640 |
| 04:46.27 | rooly | thats what he's looking for |
| 04:46.29 | raster | HAHAHAH |
| 04:46.40 | pingvid | hahahaa |
| 04:46.49 | rooly | if you don't know your imperial, then ~8cm |
| 04:46.53 | pingvid | i'd say get spare iphone parts |
| 04:47.08 | raster | wrong res |
| 04:47.13 | pingvid | htc? |
| 04:47.24 | rooly | yeah, the FR has a much higher rez than the iphone or ANY htc phone |
| 04:47.35 | pingvid | maybe even GPS parts! |
| 04:47.40 | raster | nokia 7710 also uses it |
| 04:47.42 | rooly | its pretty much only beat by MIDs |
| 04:47.43 | raster | http://my-symbian.com/s90/techdata_7710.php |
| 04:47.51 | Dave | huzzah! |
| 04:48.18 | Dave | Raster, you going to shake them up, and then possibly down? :) |
| 04:48.23 | Dave | (for the info) |
| 04:50.35 | raster | rooly: actually it's trounced by anything in japan |
| 04:50.35 | raster | :) |
| 04:50.35 | raster | 800x480 in 3" is now normal there |
| 04:50.35 | raster | 832x480 in 3.2" on some of the sharp phones is.. just incredible |
| 04:50.48 | raster | shake up nokia?> |
| 04:51.03 | rooly | raster, why not use a japanese screen then |
| 04:51.19 | raster | rooly: impossible to find a supplier |
| 04:51.20 | rooly | bulloks if it costs more |
| 04:51.39 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 04:51.39 | MichaelShiloh | raster: engadget doesn't think much of the nokia device |
| 04:51.45 | rooly | thats crazy talk. if its more or less standard in japan, i'm sure there's a supplier |
| 04:52.03 | raster | MichaelShiloh: not a problem |
| 04:52.03 | Dave | not if you're not inhouse, or in the family :) |
| 04:52.06 | raster | i just want the screen |
| 04:52.09 | rooly | MichaelShiloh, engadget is like rupert and ebbs for movies |
| 04:52.09 | raster | :) |
| 04:52.10 | Dave | haha |
| 04:52.15 | Dave | time for a harvest? |
| 04:52.16 | raster | rooly: you dont know how it works in japan |
| 04:52.18 | rooly | you go with the exact opposite of what they say |
| 04:52.19 | raster | :) |
| 04:52.23 | rooly | your right, i don't |
| 04:52.39 | raster | basically the TELCO orders the parts |
| 04:52.43 | raster | they arrange everything |
| 04:52.47 | raster | they DEFINE how the ui will be |
| 04:52.50 | pingvid | mannnn this looks sooooo good |
| 04:52.51 | pingvid | http://www.collider.com/entertainment/news/article.asp/aid/10284/tcid/1 |
| 04:52.52 | raster | and they order 30 million screens |
| 04:53.04 | raster | then they tell their suppliers "you will use this screen, and thius chip, anbd this thing" |
| 04:53.08 | raster | and then they do |
| 04:53.15 | raster | if u arent ordering 30million screens |
| 04:53.19 | raster | they dont evenm talk to you |
| 04:53.22 | raster | hell its not listed |
| 04:53.29 | raster | its custom buuilt and ordered |
| 04:53.34 | raster | u can look for a price list |
| 04:53.37 | raster | it doesnt exist |
| 04:53.46 | raster | if u want it - yo bneed to find the maker |
| 04:53.52 | raster | wait for the exclusive supplier deal to end |
| 04:53.59 | raster | then discuss with them |
| 04:54.10 | raster | and to do that u'd better have a name that says "i'm going to order a fuckload of these" |
| 04:54.14 | Dave | unfortunately, yes. |
| 04:54.54 | rooly | so you can't even ask the telco politely for say a couple hundred thousand spare screens, at a profit to them? |
| 04:55.04 | Dave | hell to the fuck no |
| 04:55.10 | raster | rooly: no |
| 04:55.15 | raster | as they dont even talk to you |
| 04:55.22 | Dave | you obviously haven't been in business in the US very long, rooly :P |
| 04:55.24 | raster | you are an annoying fly buzzing in the room |
| 04:55.27 | raster | to be shooed out |
| 04:55.42 | rooly | sighs |
| 04:55.46 | rooly | gotta love noncompetes |
| 04:55.46 | raster | in .jp its not about profit |
| 04:55.51 | raster | its about RELATIONSHIPS |
| 04:55.57 | rooly | laughs |
| 04:55.59 | Dave | YES |
| 04:56.05 | raster | you must maintain the business relationships u have |
| 04:56.14 | rooly | we can start refering to countries by their tld |
| 04:56.14 | raster | not run after the last doller in profit |
| 04:56.25 | Dave | like everyone does here :) |
| 04:56.36 | Dave | nickel & diming motherfuckers |
| 04:57.29 | MichaelShiloh | rooly: rotfl |
| 04:57.34 | rooly | anywho, i've got to sleep |
| 04:57.38 | Dave | aww |
| 04:57.42 | rooly | cause here in the .us, its kinda late |
| 04:57.47 | MichaelShiloh | raster: but really, what turns you on so much about this device? |
| 04:57.47 | Dave | that's too bad, rooly |
| 04:57.57 | MichaelShiloh | rooly: you must be east coast; g'night |
| 04:58.03 | rooly | nah |
| 04:58.07 | rooly | just have to wake up at 4:30am |
| 04:58.08 | rooly | nn |
| 04:58.17 | raster | MichaelShiloh: nothing. jus the scree res/size |
| 04:58.20 | raster | a good combo |
| 04:58.22 | rooly | not that i'll sleep... |
| 04:58.34 | mwester | 4:30AM is still "last night" in my opinion. |
| 04:59.04 | mwester | Oh come on raster - you know you love the WSoD. |
| 04:59.58 | pingvid | i know its not the right room... but anyone know how to set up what emails get sent to users on a site |
| 05:01.38 | *** join/#openmoko tenzind (n=tenzin@dns.moic.gov.bt) |
| 05:01.45 | raster | 3.5" 320x480 on the iphone is a little low-dpi wise |
| 05:02.05 | raster | 3.5" 320x640 is a 2:1 aspect ratio |
| 05:02.16 | raster | so room for a lot of vertical (or horizontal) content |
| 05:02.24 | raster | higher dpi than iphone |
| 05:02.28 | raster | but not as high as freerunner |
| 05:02.35 | raster | tho freerunner is nuts with dpi |
| 05:02.45 | Dave | It's great! |
| 05:02.49 | Dave | Stupendously amazing :D |
| 05:02.57 | Dave | too bad it's not very usable for much else :) |
| 05:03.30 | raster | i think a "somehwre in between" res/dpi is the sweet spot |
| 05:03.36 | Dave | right |
| 05:03.39 | raster | where its high enough dpi to look good at normal usage distances |
| 05:03.47 | raster | and not be an insane # of pixels to fill |
| 05:03.52 | raster | thus reducing performance |
| 05:03.54 | Dave | hah |
| 05:03.59 | Dave | and not power whore :) |
| 05:04.08 | raster | sure |
| 05:04.12 | Dave | though, damn, that freerunner display *is* nice :) |
| 05:04.15 | raster | the larger the lcd the more power it'll suck |
| 05:06.04 | raster | yes |
| 05:06.08 | raster | but realistically |
| 05:06.13 | Dave | heh |
| 05:06.19 | raster | u cant see the pixels in most real life use |
| 05:06.19 | Dave | okay okay |
| 05:06.32 | raster | so the grunt used to fill them just blurs away |
| 05:06.36 | Dave | true, especially on an everyday device, getting tossed around |
| 05:06.40 | raster | u need to find a nice middleground |
| 05:06.50 | raster | where u get nice crisp clear images |
| 05:06.53 | raster | and text |
| 05:06.55 | raster | color is good |
| 05:06.58 | raster | brightness good |
| 05:07.02 | Dave | do research |
| 05:07.03 | raster | power usage low |
| 05:07.06 | Dave | test devices |
| 05:07.13 | raster | processing grunt needed to fill it is reduced |
| 05:07.21 | Dave | play around, load your UIs on the buffet |
| 05:07.36 | raster | no need - thats what i already "know" |
| 05:07.44 | Dave | good |
| 05:07.45 | raster | result of having done graphics for so long |
| 05:07.48 | raster | :) |
| 05:07.49 | Dave | true :) |
| 05:07.53 | Dave | hah! |
| 05:08.00 | MichaelShiloh | i'm calling it a night as well. raster, mwester, speedevil - nice to see you all again |
| 05:08.05 | Dave | So, what's keeping you... the moolah? (and perhaps the optional backing) ? |
| 05:08.06 | raster | i have at least my instincts telling me what the sweet spot is |
| 05:08.11 | raster | MichaelShiloh: nite! |
| 05:08.13 | raster | :) |
| 05:08.24 | raster | Dave: i'm an organised person |
| 05:08.24 | raster | i' |
| 05:08.28 | raster | m getting organised |
| 05:08.30 | raster | :) |
| 05:08.36 | raster | and mulah is another |
| 05:08.39 | Dave | Ah |
| 05:08.47 | Dave | So are you still in the plotting stages then? |
| 05:08.59 | Dave | Origanizing your thoughts, principles, and arsenal? |
| 05:09.00 | jonsmith1982 | wasn't there a discussion about using multi-touch screen instead of single and the main argument was not being able to get the higher resolutions? |
| 05:09.02 | raster | in the avanced plottign stages |
| 05:09.10 | Dave | Eeeeeeeeeeexcellent. |
| 05:09.26 | raster | jonsmith1982: resolution is separate from touch input |
| 05:09.28 | Dave | also affordability, I believe. |
| 05:09.38 | raster | its merely to do with findelity of displayed imagery |
| 05:09.41 | raster | input is entirely separate |
| 05:09.56 | jonsmith1982 | k. |
| 05:09.57 | openmoko | does multitouch really matter? |
| 05:10.11 | raster | openmoko: yes. |
| 05:10.16 | raster | if u do a virtual on-screen kbd |
| 05:10.20 | raster | absolutely |
| 05:10.29 | raster | otherwise its a nice bonus |
| 05:10.50 | Dave | Man, now I really wish I did have that keyboard we talked about raster :\ |
| 05:11.02 | Dave | and I'm already envisioning it being retractable. |
| 05:11.17 | Dave | (somehow...) |
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| 05:22.47 | jonsmith1982 | is it normal for for the api to be broken in developement? shr-testing API-BREAKAGE! i'm no c programmer however i managed to fix it but why would they break the api in such a simple way without fixing the other side? |
| 05:29.18 | jonsmith1982 | API Breackage! Renamed new_frameworkd_handler() to frameworkd_handler_new() and dbus_connect_to_bus() to frameworkd_handler_connect(). |
| 05:30.46 | raster | api breakage is normal in developemtn |
| 05:30.50 | raster | u are using a TESTING image |
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| 06:09.15 | Digital_Pioneer | OK, my FR is stuck in suspension. |
| 06:09.48 | Digital_Pioneer | I can't get it to do anything. No CPU interrupts wake it up, I pulled the battery and held the power and aux buttons for 15 seconds, put batt back in, it still won't start. |
| 06:10.23 | Digital_Pioneer | I even called it, and I hear a ring tone on the line, but the FR remains dead. |
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| 06:13.07 | Digital_Pioneer | Ahh, got it. It worked when I plugged to USB instead of wall. Weird. |
| 06:13.35 | Digital_Pioneer | I can't imagine it drained its battery... It's been in suspension, and was fully charged just a couple hours ago. |
| 06:14.07 | Digital_Pioneer | I think it's that mwester kernel's fault. It likes to get stuck in suspension. |
| 06:21.28 | kd8ikt | mwester wears army boots |
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| 06:50.15 | gecco | good morning |
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| 07:32.02 | leavittx | good morning |
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| 08:12.48 | leavittx | is anybody alive here now?=) |
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| 08:24.16 | mps | raster: why not just keep the 640x480 display? |
| 08:24.47 | mps | keep the only decent part in fr and just change everything else around it so that we get the processing power to actually draw something on it :) |
| 08:25.16 | raster | because its overkill |
| 08:25.32 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon_ (n=max_pose@80.249.94.143) |
| 08:25.39 | raster | its like buying a f1 car to drive in peak hour traffic to work |
| 08:25.43 | raster | it doesnt get u there faster |
| 08:25.51 | raster | u just get bragging rights for a while |
| 08:26.00 | mps | if we get enough cpu to actually draw video at 640x480 then I don't see how it's overkill |
| 08:26.08 | raster | until u realise the maintenance costs are eating a hole in your wallet |
| 08:26.10 | raster | :) |
| 08:26.14 | raster | i do |
| 08:26.40 | raster | as a lowe res will let you do other things |
| 08:26.46 | raster | no matter what reduce pixel # |
| 08:26.54 | raster | u get either higher fps |
| 08:27.02 | raster | or the ability to "do more" at a given fps |
| 08:27.13 | mps | sure |
| 08:27.26 | raster | like spending $100,000 on your house front door |
| 08:27.35 | raster | but only spending $100,000 on the rest of the house |
| 08:27.44 | raster | you should balance things |
| 08:28.03 | *** join/#openmoko jonsmith1982 (n=jon@82-38-88-58.cable.ubr01.donc.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 08:28.21 | mps | but imo being able to play h264-videos is a decent benchmark of "enough power per pixel" |
| 08:28.37 | mps | for a mobile phone |
| 08:30.03 | raster | a very simpe view of things |
| 08:30.06 | raster | simple |
| 08:30.09 | raster | :) |
| 08:30.19 | mps | and if you have excess power then going for a higher-dpi display isn't a bad way to use that power |
| 08:30.44 | raster | you will never have excess |
| 08:30.50 | raster | ever |
| 08:31.04 | raster | :) |
| 08:31.19 | mps | well I don't see much benefit in being able to draw @100fps vs. @60fps on a lcd |
| 08:31.42 | madwoota | no excess cpu power? |
| 08:32.08 | madwoota | wonders what System Idle Process is for then :) |
| 08:33.12 | mps | and I do like fr's dpi, you can actually have a decent number of lines of text on the display |
| 08:33.23 | mps | w/ kanji at more than 8pt detail |
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| 08:35.37 | raster | the fact is u wont do 100fps |
| 08:35.43 | raster | because then u'll ADD a feature |
| 08:35.46 | raster | eg anti-aliasing |
| 08:35.49 | raster | to make it smoother |
| 08:35.52 | raster | and thus drop your fps |
| 08:35.55 | raster | or u'll add overlays |
| 08:36.02 | raster | and dont think of just videoo playback |
| 08:36.07 | raster | thats a very limited use-case |
| 08:36.12 | raster | as it has dfined limits |
| 08:36.25 | raster | ie the resolution of a video is poinltess being > than the res of the screen |
| 08:36.29 | raster | and fps > that original video is pointless |
| 08:36.38 | raster | so u have fairly well known recable limits |
| 08:36.40 | raster | reachable |
| 08:36.45 | raster | extend to other things |
| 08:36.49 | raster | eg games |
| 08:37.05 | raster | with 1/2 the pixels you can double the # of enemies you can draw |
| 08:37.11 | raster | on the screen and keep the same fps |
| 08:37.20 | mps | well in a generation or two of socs u will do anti-aliasing&overlays&100fps |
| 08:37.30 | raster | you can draw multiple layers of parallax scrolling |
| 08:37.33 | raster | not just 1 or 2 but 3, 4 etc. |
| 08:37.35 | *** join/#openmoko Obri (i=daniel@sonne.alt-f4.ch) |
| 08:37.37 | raster | and so on |
| 08:38.06 | mps | well games will never have enough power and will always drive hw development |
| 08:38.54 | raster | 2d u's too |
| 08:38.58 | raster | ui's |
| 08:39.06 | raster | a ui will become less boring |
| 08:39.09 | mps | but if you're building a device, I'd be perfectly happy with one that can do everything up to full-screen-h264 |
| 08:39.12 | raster | being to have animat4ed backdrops |
| 08:39.21 | raster | eg water glistening in sunlight |
| 08:39.32 | raster | with reflections... |
| 08:39.50 | raster | i'm making the point that you can throw the processing power itno more pixels than your eye can actually see |
| 08:39.54 | raster | (thus losing your work) |
| 08:40.03 | raster | or spending it on things your eye can see |
| 08:40.07 | raster | or user can experience |
| 08:40.08 | mps | if you can't do that with the same power as h264 playback then efl isn't as efficient as I thought it was :P |
| 08:40.36 | raster | i argue that the pixels on the 2.8" vga on the freerunner at normal usage levels are far beyond most peoples eyesigfht |
| 08:40.49 | raster | (unles you hold it up so close that its almost in your face |
| 08:41.42 | mps | I do hold it pretty close when reading stuff from it in small fonts |
| 08:41.46 | mps | and I like it that way :) |
| 08:41.57 | mps | and with a high dpi you don't need the anti-aliasing |
| 08:41.59 | raster | most people don't |
| 08:42.20 | raster | yes you do |
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| 08:42.33 | raster | trust me |
| 08:42.38 | raster | its the catch cry for people all the time |
| 08:42.47 | raster | and you do spot the ugliness of no aa |
| 08:42.49 | raster | very easily |
| 08:42.55 | madwoota | aa makes the ugly go away |
| 08:43.01 | raster | even at 300dpi |
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| 08:45.03 | mps | it's a catch cry because most of existing displays are low-dpi :) |
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| 08:45.19 | raster | no |
| 08:45.31 | raster | the catch cry of "wit6h a high dpi screen you can get rid of doing aa" |
| 08:45.32 | mps | sure you can spot it, but everything's about choices |
| 08:45.34 | *** part/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu_ (n=Leachim@M452f.m.pppool.de) |
| 08:46.00 | raster | also the vga screen is expensive |
| 08:46.02 | mps | just saying that if you're making an expensive premium device then a "worse than fr" display might not be very attractive |
| 08:46.10 | raster | relative to lower res screens |
| 08:46.23 | mps | does it matter in small production runs? |
| 08:46.35 | mps | as you yourself said, might as well get the best components |
| 08:46.36 | raster | the fr's screen is stubby and short too |
| 08:46.49 | raster | also display is not all about # of pixels |
| 08:46.57 | raster | its brightness, color reporduction, contrast etc. |
| 08:47.07 | raster | the fr's screen is not the best |
| 08:47.28 | raster | being 4:3 |
| 08:47.37 | raster | it means you either have to make a short stubby device |
| 08:47.45 | raster | or fill in a lot of device with blank bits |
| 08:48.20 | *** join/#openmoko lpotter (n=lpotter@58.173.176.153) |
| 08:48.27 | mps | but it's available in small quantities? |
| 08:48.30 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl (n=bumbl@212-183-117-58.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 08:48.49 | raster | possibly |
| 08:49.05 | raster | but the screen is not the right one for such devices |
| 08:49.32 | raster | i'd love one of the 800x480 3" screens the japanese have |
| 08:49.35 | Sargun | My OpenMoko automatically got IPv6. |
| 08:49.38 | raster | but they are impossible to find |
| 08:49.44 | mps | yeah |
| 08:49.50 | raster | same with the 640x320 ones nokia are using |
| 08:49.50 | Sargun | Well, and IPv6 address and then locked in. |
| 08:50.10 | raster | the 640x480 means a stubby 4:3 display |
| 08:50.12 | Sargun | I'd love IPv6 over GPRS. |
| 08:50.17 | raster | going for widescreen (or tall) is good |
| 08:50.29 | raster | its also closer to golden ratios that are more appealing to humans |
| 08:50.40 | Sargun | Please don't hack my freerunner: http://www.sixxs.net/tools/traceroute/?pop=noc-6&dpop=other&dest=2001:5a8:4:2cb0:212:cfff:fe8e:e515 |
| 08:51.14 | mps | just saying that if the only viable option is 272x480 then I'd consider the fr screen as well |
| 08:51.29 | mps | the screen is not the part that people are complaining about on the fr |
| 08:51.45 | Sargun | the modem is. |
| 08:51.50 | raster | i have considered it |
| 08:51.56 | raster | and tossed it early on :) |
| 08:52.03 | bumbl | the screen is not that bad |
| 08:52.09 | bumbl | the case is the problem |
| 08:52.21 | bumbl | although I think the case itself looks good |
| 08:53.19 | Sargun | I like the case. |
| 08:53.34 | bumbl | me too |
| 08:53.44 | bumbl | but it takes away fingerfriendly space |
| 08:53.44 | Sargun | I dislike the modem mostly, and the MMC/SDHC interface... I wish it had full-sized SDHC |
| 08:54.08 | Sargun | I don't care... That doesn't make the Freerunner any less awesome of a development platform |
| 08:54.22 | bumbl | development is not everything |
| 08:54.32 | Sargun | That's what I use my freerunner for. |
| 08:54.41 | Sargun | Honestly, I need a good toolchain for my freerunner... Debian basically replaced that |
| 08:54.50 | bumbl | someday people have to start just using it or openmoko will go bankrupt |
| 08:54.51 | Sargun | I'd be really happy if the FR took CF |
| 08:55.04 | Sargun | but that'll happen when pigs fly.. |
| 08:55.30 | raster | cf is a dying format |
| 08:55.50 | raster | only professional cameras and cf->ide things in pc's are using it |
| 08:55.55 | raster | full sd is alive and kicking |
| 08:56.16 | mps | nothing wrong with micro-sd |
| 08:56.20 | raster | but its physically big and thus makes the device big just to plug it in |
| 08:56.30 | raster | an sd slot does take significant space on a board |
| 08:56.36 | raster | micro-sd is fine for this kind of thing |
| 08:57.12 | mps | just make sure that it supports everything and not just the biggest sdhc on the market at manufacturing time |
| 08:57.29 | raster | thats hard |
| 08:57.33 | bumbl | yeah and as µsds are damn cheap nowadays |
| 08:57.53 | raster | as how can u make sure it supports stuff that doesnt even exist yet - as u cant test! |
| 08:57.55 | Sargun | raster, I'd be happy with full sized SD. |
| 08:58.10 | mps | raster: by doing stuff according to the sdhc specification? |
| 08:58.32 | mps | n95 supports micro-sdhc's way bigger than they had during the device's development |
| 08:58.37 | Sargun | I want to be able to plug in that SDHC expander, or the other crap I have. |
| 08:59.10 | raster | mps: "doing stuff" is not in the hands of the vendor mostly |
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| 08:59.28 | raster | only in the hands of the supplier |
| 08:59.28 | raster | (or creator) |
| 09:00.00 | mps | the device manufacturer gets to choose the component suppliers |
| 09:00.11 | mps | just make sure to choose wisely :) |
| 09:00.58 | bumbl | any progress on #1024 and wsod? |
| 09:02.42 | raster | often thats not so easy |
| 09:02.46 | raster | if u want to make somethng open |
| 09:02.52 | mps | sure |
| 09:02.56 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-85-150.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 09:04.16 | mps | just make sure to look at all the options available openly in small quantities and choose the best one |
| 09:04.32 | mps | instead of taking the first one and trusting that it'll be as good as any |
| 09:08.37 | *** join/#openmoko Gilly (n=btw@about/essy/ilkimys/gilly) |
| 09:09.05 | mps | and in many cases the problems can be as simple as having an inappropriately sized capacitor at some point |
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| 09:10.00 | mps | "oh it seems to work just fine in our tests with available cards, let's not care that the specification says something different" |
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| 09:14.52 | kd8ikt | shenanigans |
| 09:16.19 | Defiant- | mps: simple? try to find those errors... |
| 09:18.07 | mps | well the community found many of those on gta01 boards as soon as they got access to the boards/schemas :) |
| 09:18.36 | mps | would of course be better to have a good hw designer in the first place |
| 09:19.34 | Defiant- | so you don't say the openmoko people have good hw designers? |
| 09:19.54 | *** join/#openmoko moo--- (n=quassel@oul110-gw10.netplaza.fi) |
| 09:19.58 | mps | i might wager so |
| 09:21.25 | mps | but good ones are expensive and hard to find |
| 09:22.43 | bumbl | Defiant-: i wouldn't say they are bad - they were just a bit inexperienced when doing gta01 and gta02 afaik |
| 09:25.58 | mps | and they don't have the numbers and qa available in big companies |
| 09:26.04 | Defiant- | bumbl: so there is hope for a better gta03 :) |
| 09:26.20 | bumbl | well kind of |
| 09:26.26 | bumbl | people want 3g |
| 09:26.37 | bumbl | but 3g modems are unaffordable for openmoko |
| 09:26.39 | mps | which is why it'd been all the more important to get the layouts verified by as many eyes as possible *before* printing any boards :) |
| 09:26.40 | Defiant- | thats not a problem they can currently fix |
| 09:26.49 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@jusuf-laptop.visitor.congress.ccc.de) |
| 09:26.54 | bumbl | i know |
| 09:27.02 | Defiant- | mps: true release early release often |
| 09:28.30 | bumbl | the good thing about gta03 will be the new shiny gps chip and the new soc |
| 09:28.37 | Defiant- | no glamo :) |
| 09:28.45 | bumbl | yeah |
| 09:30.06 | bumbl | the question is if i am able to justify to buy a new phone |
| 09:30.12 | Defiant- | but I was surprised to see that I was able to view the 25c3 livestream on my gta02 with debian-mplayer |
| 09:33.25 | mps | I wonder where raster is planning to find affordable 3g :) |
| 09:34.39 | raster | secret stash |
| 09:34.41 | mps | maybe he has some 3g usb stick manufacturer in his backpocket or something |
| 09:34.41 | raster | :) |
| 09:34.52 | raster | not quite |
| 09:34.55 | raster | :) |
| 09:35.11 | bumbl | no raster has connections |
| 09:35.32 | mps | if it's hsdpa/hsupa then it's indeed something quite valuable |
| 09:35.50 | mps | would actually be possible to compete with the cellphone big guys |
| 09:35.51 | bumbl | yes and no |
| 09:36.05 | bumbl | a hspa phone would force me to buy a data plan |
| 09:36.19 | mps | they support the old stuff too |
| 09:36.40 | mps | but you start to actually get acceptable latencies with hspa |
| 09:36.43 | bumbl | yeah but if i had hspa i would want to use it |
| 09:37.05 | mps | and w/ 3g+gsm you can actually make a phone that works everywhere |
| 09:37.07 | bumbl | and data plans are cheap here |
| 09:37.16 | raster | mps: hsupa/hsdpa |
| 09:37.21 | mps | w00t |
| 09:37.28 | mps | where do I sign up |
| 09:37.32 | bumbl | haha |
| 09:37.46 | raster | small module (about 25x30mm) |
| 09:37.50 | raster | and only 2.5mm thick |
| 09:38.07 | raster | and price-wise its much less than the competition |
| 09:38.41 | mps | wonder why openmoko isn't considering that? |
| 09:39.23 | bumbl | wonders why raster wrote on the mailinglist that 3g is so expensive - sabotage? |
| 09:39.25 | raster | they might not know about it |
| 09:39.33 | bumbl | :p |
| 09:39.39 | raster | bumbl: it is.. until i found this one |
| 09:39.45 | raster | (whihc i found after that mail) |
| 09:39.52 | bumbl | ah ok |
| 09:40.01 | raster | until then everythng i found was somewhere $150-$250 |
| 09:40.12 | raster | just for the chip |
| 09:40.39 | bumbl | so you are sure you want to do your own hardware? |
| 09:41.39 | raster | a umts module i am looking at right now form another vendor is 145euro - if u buy 100+ |
| 09:41.54 | raster | bumbl: no one is making the right hardware |
| 09:42.05 | raster | so its diy as a "only choice) |
| 09:42.12 | bumbl | hehe yes |
| 09:42.23 | bumbl | but 145⬠is still expensive |
| 09:45.25 | Sargun | get an open source client side GSM implementatio |
| 09:47.05 | bumbl | raster: does your "dream phone" include a keyboard? |
| 09:47.34 | raster | Sargun: BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 09:47.38 | raster | ROTFL |
| 09:47.38 | raster | hehehehe |
| 09:47.42 | raster | gigglez |
| 09:47.50 | raster | bumbl: it'd be nice |
| 09:47.55 | raster | i'd go a slide-out kbd |
| 09:47.59 | bumbl | because although this might complicate things a keyboard is very handy |
| 09:48.00 | raster | but mechanically that might be a bit much |
| 09:48.10 | raster | of course if the funding comes through |
| 09:48.11 | bumbl | yeah like the g1 does |
| 09:48.14 | raster | that might not be a problem |
| 09:48.25 | raster | well i'd do it vertically |
| 09:48.29 | raster | not landscape mode |
| 09:48.33 | raster | is sldie down in portrait |
| 09:48.50 | raster | but pretty much u'll be stuck with chosing landscape or portrait |
| 09:48.57 | bumbl | a whole keyboard in portrait mode |
| 09:49.01 | bumbl | ? |
| 09:49.11 | raster | it'd been done before |
| 09:49.14 | raster | :) |
| 09:49.22 | Sargun | raster, yes, I know it's a mobile geeks we dream.. |
| 09:49.26 | raster | stares at his treo |
| 09:49.30 | Sargun | and it wont happen. |
| 09:49.33 | bumbl | I just can't imagine it at the moment |
| 09:49.44 | *** join/#openmoko Fossi (n=fossi@e182067240.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:49.48 | raster | Sargun: evbne IF it ewas open source |
| 09:50.00 | raster | u're up for patent licenses out the wazoo |
| 09:50.05 | raster | and u'd never get it approved |
| 09:50.10 | bumbl | http://www.gadgetsonthego.net/pics/treo.gif<- like that but sliding out? |
| 09:50.57 | raster | yes |
| 09:51.01 | raster | and well thinner |
| 09:51.09 | Sargun | raster, you might get it approved.. if you did some sort of signing. |
| 09:51.21 | raster | thinner but taller keys |
| 09:52.00 | raster | so what you lose in horizontal pushspace |
| 09:52.06 | raster | u make up for in vertical |
| 09:52.22 | raster | but mechanically kbd is hard |
| 09:52.31 | bumbl | yep |
| 09:52.42 | bumbl | one would have to buy an existing solution |
| 09:52.52 | raster | i'd lean to a really nice capacitive touchscreen with multitouch |
| 09:53.19 | raster | so take the treo kbd |
| 09:53.30 | raster | cut it down to about 50-60% width |
| 09:53.46 | raster | (same # of keys just squashed horizontally) |
| 09:54.41 | raster | also a kbd makes the device thicker |
| 09:54.45 | raster | and more prone to brekage |
| 09:55.00 | raster | (if its slide-out) |
| 09:55.06 | raster | if its fixed (ala a treo/blackberry) |
| 09:55.11 | raster | you have an easier time |
| 09:55.18 | raster | but you have to make the thing huge to have a big screen and kbd |
| 09:55.25 | raster | so u need to give something up |
| 09:56.46 | Sargun | raster, isn't the slide-out patented? |
| 09:56.55 | Sargun | the treo keyboard is patented. |
| 09:57.33 | Fossi | everything is patented |
| 09:57.58 | bumbl | your onscreen keyboard + modified default.kbd (keys a bit better grouped) is cool |
| 09:58.16 | bumbl | although it can't compete with a true keyboard |
| 09:58.20 | *** join/#openmoko lpotter_ (n=lpotter@58.173.176.153) |
| 10:02.08 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.65.175) |
| 10:02.44 | raster | bumbl: no it cant |
| 10:02.58 | raster | but in the interest of practicality - kbd may need to take a back-seat for now |
| 10:05.30 | bumbl | sure |
| 10:06.30 | bumbl | although I know some who haven't bought the freerunner just because it has no hardware keyboard |
| 10:07.19 | Defiant- | yeah, the keyboard is an issue - especially the default one shipped with om2008.x |
| 10:07.56 | Defiant- | however there are cool input methods out there like rosetta |
| 10:07.59 | bumbl | well the one who is the openmoko designer who made this desicion is a moron |
| 10:08.31 | Defiant- | fullack. Who is shipping a phone/pda for linux geeks without a keyboard |
| 10:09.08 | raster | bumbl: a hw keyboard is good |
| 10:09.11 | raster | it has tactile feedback |
| 10:09.13 | raster | BUT |
| 10:09.17 | raster | once createds |
| 10:09.20 | raster | its fixed |
| 10:09.28 | raster | its not goign to change |
| 10:09.28 | *** join/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74) |
| 10:09.31 | raster | u cant change how a key behaves other than it presses |
| 10:09.39 | raster | the key it outputs is printed on it |
| 10:09.41 | bumbl | yeah |
| 10:09.42 | raster | ie fixed |
| 10:09.59 | raster | (you can do doing stupid things like remapping it to output different sutff but now its just getting stupid) |
| 10:10.16 | Defiant- | raster: and? Still you have a always working input method |
| 10:10.16 | raster | and covering multipel langauges with such a fixed kbd is costly |
| 10:10.17 | bumbl | one could give tactile feedback with the help of the vibrator (even if this means that the vibrator wears down faster) |
| 10:10.29 | Defiant- | and that is what you need on an experimantal device |
| 10:10.33 | raster | unless u have high enough voluem to do kbd variants (one per country/language/region) |
| 10:10.55 | raster | an ons-creen kbd (vkbd) is totally flexible |
| 10:11.01 | raster | and up to the imagination of whoever writes it |
| 10:11.17 | raster | Defiant-: what if its not experimental? |
| 10:11.22 | bumbl | well raster i think there is noone who has anything against qwerty |
| 10:12.10 | bumbl | most programmers I know use qwerty even if they have qwertz keyboards |
| 10:12.20 | Defiant- | raster: thats not the case right now. Gta02 is an experiment, gta03 will also be. Once the base hardware is working and we have basic software you can start changing the input method |
| 10:12.39 | raster | bumbl: yeah - but also it makes the device much bigger |
| 10:12.56 | raster | Defiant-: software already works for that stuff |
| 10:13.09 | Defiant- | raster: no it does not. |
| 10:13.21 | raster | just some people decide to give you a kbd thats only useful for entering sms's and emails |
| 10:13.32 | raster | and not much else |
| 10:13.35 | raster | and make it hard to switch |
| 10:13.48 | raster | (i'm not going to go into that again) |
| 10:14.03 | Defiant- | the because openmoko is trying to target the enduser with their distribution with is...well... |
| 10:14.12 | Defiant- | not yet a good idea |
| 10:14.21 | raster | not going into it |
| 10:14.48 | raster | it doesnt change the fact that a keyboard is a mechanical nightmare |
| 10:14.57 | raster | if u do slide-out to save space |
| 10:14.58 | *** join/#openmoko admiral0 (n=quassel@151.57.207.5) |
| 10:14.59 | raster | its even worse |
| 10:15.11 | raster | and you have patent problems |
| 10:15.16 | raster | that once u produce the thing |
| 10:15.19 | raster | u cant go change it |
| 10:15.22 | raster | not without high cost |
| 10:15.24 | admiral0 | hi raster |
| 10:15.24 | ronny | what about bluetooth? |
| 10:15.33 | raster | (shoudl someone come at u with a patent infrignment suit) |
| 10:15.40 | raster | bt is no problem |
| 10:15.40 | ronny | or just usb |
| 10:15.50 | raster | thats one reason why i lean to the no-kbd side |
| 10:15.57 | raster | as u can add a kbd via bt easily |
| 10:16.02 | raster | and then it can be big and easy to type with |
| 10:16.09 | raster | admiral0: hey |
| 10:16.46 | [Rui] | or using x2x you just drag your mouse to the side focus on the window and type from your best keyboard :) |
| 10:16.55 | raster | hahaha |
| 10:17.00 | raster | at that point |
| 10:17.01 | raster | "why" |
| 10:17.04 | raster | you are at your desk |
| 10:17.10 | raster | use the big screen in front of you! |
| 10:17.31 | raster | (though what WOULD be cool is the ability to drag a docuemnt u are editing off your desktop onto the phone screen with the mouse |
| 10:17.32 | *** join/#openmoko wd (n=wd@php.suxx.us) |
| 10:17.43 | raster | and then just pick up the phone and walk out - and continue to edit it |
| 10:17.50 | raster | or for that matter the web page uwere browsing |
| 10:17.54 | raster | the email u were working on |
| 10:18.01 | raster | etc. |
| 10:18.01 | raster | ) |
| 10:18.09 | admiral0 | that would be very nice |
| 10:18.42 | raster | anyway |
| 10:18.48 | raster | time to make some food |
| 10:18.51 | raster | munc munch |
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| 10:22.23 | bumbl | raster: hmm isn't that what surface already does |
| 10:22.36 | bumbl | you know that multitouch thing from microsoft |
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| 10:28.34 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 10:28.52 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 10:28.59 | *** join/#openmoko reinouts (n=reinout@s559355fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 10:29.56 | m0nt0 | hi |
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| 10:54.17 | StealthCP | has anyone got GPS working under SHR testing? |
| 11:03.59 | *** join/#openmoko leavittx (n=leavittx@11-113.admiral.tvoe.tv) |
| 11:04.08 | leavittx | hey! |
| 11:04.27 | leavittx | what is the best firmware for neo now? |
| 11:05.10 | StealthCP | what defines best? :P |
| 11:05.16 | admiral0 | gsm(1) or rootfs(2)? (1) latest (2) there is no "best" |
| 11:05.28 | StealthCP | here's my rundown (I've tested everything) |
| 11:05.34 | StealthCP | in no particular order |
| 11:05.54 | Sargun | Debian FTW |
| 11:06.01 | leavittx | with wi-fi and calls |
| 11:06.13 | StealthCP | Qtopia 4.3.3 (Trolltech's Qtopia, works reliably as a phone, few memory leaks in the media player, generally usable (if all you want is a phone)) |
| 11:06.15 | *** join/#openmoko nomeata (i=nobody@nomeata.de) |
| 11:06.45 | leavittx | I wasn't able to connect to wi-fi with qtopia... |
| 11:06.59 | leavittx | do you know anth about this? |
| 11:07.00 | StealthCP | SHR (Stable Hybrid Release, the community maintained distro, comes around as still being reliable as a phone but with lots of perfect awesomeness) |
| 11:07.36 | leavittx | where can I get latest qtopia? |
| 11:07.42 | StealthCP | Om2008.12 (The latest Openmoko release, nice if you want to see in which direction they're heading, but is useful for perhaps bright rooms at best) |
| 11:08.10 | leavittx | in wiki there is only 4.4.2 |
| 11:08.15 | edje2 | hi all, does anyone know how to use dbus to read SMS [2008.12] |
| 11:08.16 | StealthCP | There's Qt Extended (4.4.x release branch) and Qtopia 4.3.x I'd recommend Qtopia over Qte |
| 11:08.27 | StealthCP | because everything works yep |
| 11:08.39 | StealthCP | the latest Qtopia can be obtained from |
| 11:08.54 | StealthCP | http://qtextended.org/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6&min=0&orderby=titleA&show=10 |
| 11:08.58 | admiral0 | edje2(there is no frameworkd on 2008.12) |
| 11:09.00 | StealthCP | this page, but also view the next page |
| 11:09.08 | StealthCP | (which contains 4.3.3 for GTA02) |
| 11:09.31 | kd8ikt | i like qte but i really like the previous ones ability to have crap like the time clock on the homescreen |
| 11:09.46 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=chatzill@79-70-62-69.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 11:09.57 | edje2 | admiral0: ok, but there are service files for qmail etc ( /opt/Qtopia/services/ ) |
| 11:10.18 | kd8ikt | and why couldnt i find the dialer in qt... only could really call people aready in my phonebook |
| 11:10.29 | admiral0 | never used them.. i prefer frameworkd |
| 11:10.32 | kd8ikt | world time |
| 11:11.11 | leavittx | thanks=)) |
| 11:11.15 | StealthCP | leavittx, if you haven't tried out SHR yet I'd strongly advise you do, before you settle for something else |
| 11:11.35 | edje2 | admiral0: and gsm0710muxd uses dbus-send to obtain a pts. so for gsm0710muxd it does work |
| 11:12.08 | StealthCP | I avoided it for a while but it's (imo) better than anything else right now, due to the fact that you can still use it as a phone, and there's so much software and everything works and it's just the perfect hybrid :) |
| 11:12.12 | leavittx | where can I get binary SHR? |
| 11:12.13 | admiral0 | didn't know that |
| 11:12.16 | StealthCP | so in answer to your question, SHR |
| 11:12.22 | StealthCP | I'll send you to the images I used |
| 11:12.33 | StealthCP | I'll get you testing and not unstable, for obvious reasons |
| 11:12.41 | StealthCP | http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/ |
| 11:12.49 | StealthCP | you probably want |
| 11:12.52 | StealthCP | http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2 |
| 11:12.52 | *** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer2 (n=jr-N810@81.163.100.201) |
| 11:12.52 | StealthCP | and |
| 11:12.56 | StealthCP | http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin |
| 11:13.13 | admiral0 | i used shr-unstable |
| 11:13.15 | dns53 | does shr have tangogps? |
| 11:13.21 | admiral0 | more interesting |
| 11:13.31 | admiral0 | yes shr has tangogps |
| 11:13.32 | leavittx | thanks a lot, StealthCP! |
| 11:13.39 | admiral0 | yes it has navit |
| 11:13.50 | admiral0 | yes it has a functional phone |
| 11:13.51 | admiral0 | ;) |
| 11:14.08 | StealthCP | no problem :) the first thing I do when I get help or find out something is start froviding help back, makes me feel good :P |
| 11:14.12 | dns53 | well navit and tangogps and the dialer are just about all i use |
| 11:14.32 | StealthCP | admiral0, out of curiosity, how is unstable? |
| 11:14.44 | StealthCP | I mean, is it (literally) unstable? |
| 11:14.47 | admiral0 | well.. it works |
| 11:14.58 | StealthCP | or have you had success with it? (have you used testing to compare?) |
| 11:14.59 | PBeck | admiral0: you are a pr-manager? :> |
| 11:15.03 | admiral0 | dialer has the new ui |
| 11:15.16 | admiral0 | define pr-manager |
| 11:15.27 | PBeck | admiral0: promotion-manager :p |
| 11:15.38 | admiral0 | no |
| 11:15.39 | StealthCP | normally pr = public relations |
| 11:15.45 | PBeck | StealthCP: argh oki ^^ |
| 11:16.02 | StealthCP | and I felt you meant project, so heh |
| 11:16.07 | PBeck | that sounds like promotion :p 12:13:39 < admiral0> yes it has navit |
| 11:16.07 | PBeck | 12:13:51 < admiral0> yes it has a functional phone |
| 11:16.14 | admiral0 | i have my own distro, but for now SHR is much better |
| 11:16.18 | PBeck | and now => YES WE CAN! :D |
| 11:16.27 | PBeck | admiral0: which? |
| 11:16.32 | StealthCP | ok, anyone here (right now) that uses testing? |
| 11:16.34 | admiral0 | :D |
| 11:16.40 | admiral0 | telefoninux |
| 11:16.46 | PBeck | StealthCP: i use testing |
| 11:16.55 | StealthCP | have you got GPS on the go yet? |
| 11:16.57 | admiral0 | telefoninux.projects.openmoko.org |
| 11:17.20 | *** join/#openmoko Milad (n=milad@unaffiliated/slackark) |
| 11:17.32 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@edu-62.117.zhaw.ch) |
| 11:17.34 | admiral0 | StealthCP : u mean elefoninux? |
| 11:17.43 | StealthCP | no, I mean on SHR testing |
| 11:18.02 | PBeck | admiral0: is telefoninux only for debian background or gui? |
| 11:18.11 | admiral0 | shr testing works fine |
| 11:18.12 | StealthCP | I had to modify /etc/init.d/fso-gpsd because the syntax was all wrong, and didn't work properly |
| 11:18.18 | PBeck | StealthCP: yes of course |
| 11:18.23 | StealthCP | but even then when gpsd is running it's not been working |
| 11:18.26 | *** join/#openmoko nio_ (n=nio@5571ef58.dsl.concepts.nl) |
| 11:18.32 | PBeck | StealthCP: with no changes - it works |
| 11:18.49 | StealthCP | PBeck, could you send me your unchanged file? (pastebin?) |
| 11:19.03 | admiral0 | PBeck:telefoninux is debian mostly recompiled with better cflags and with e17 |
| 11:19.05 | PBeck | mom |
| 11:19.13 | PBeck | admiral0: ah okay |
| 11:21.19 | PBeck | http://nopaste.de/p/aqsRmFGCR StealthCP |
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| 11:23.03 | PBeck | StealthCP: but is should say - it works for weeks for me - and then no gps-fix anymore - i have no answer :/ |
| 11:23.20 | PBeck | StealthCP: only a reflash solved the problem |
| 11:24.04 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201.45.49.162) |
| 11:27.36 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst_ (n=Horst@e176110239.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:28.40 | PBeck | so i go offline now - bye |
| 11:29.00 | *** join/#openmoko WyrM (n=wyrm@20158181046.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 11:32.59 | *** join/#openmoko jernst (n=jernst@151-9.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 11:33.17 | StealthCP | see that's completely different from mine |
| 11:34.42 | jernst | Hello, I just received my freerunner and it won't boot up (the screen shows some green points and get's stucked here). I tried to flash Om 2008.12 (kernel and rootfs) but it won't book from nand boot loader. IÂ can boot from the nor boot loader though... |
| 11:36.17 | admiral0 | jernst flash qi on nand |
| 11:38.22 | jernst | ok done (from the nor boot menu) |
| 11:38.33 | jernst | then should I reboot to the nand ? |
| 11:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko CIA-47 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 11:41.01 | jernst | hmm I cannot boot into nand anymore it seems |
| 11:41.10 | Sargun | jernst, can you get to NOR? |
| 11:41.21 | jernst | when I press power button then aux, the phone vibrates and goes back into nor book menu |
| 11:41.31 | jernst | Sargun: yes |
| 11:41.44 | jernst | U-boot 1.3.2 moko12 |
| 11:42.47 | StealthCP | Qi does not offer a boot menu |
| 11:43.04 | StealthCP | you should feel two quick phuts from the vibration |
| 11:43.48 | jernst | StealthCP: I felt the vibration, but then it went back to nor menu |
| 11:43.56 | StealthCP | interesting |
| 11:46.11 | *** join/#openmoko Cervajz (n=Cervajz@r2ab25.net.upc.cz) |
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| 11:51.51 | opentrinity | hi ...i have installed 2008.12, all is good but omview doesn't show jpg....anyone could help me? |
| 11:53.50 | jernst | I fixed the boot problem, thanks |
| 11:54.00 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=chatzill@79-70-62-69.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 11:54.28 | jernst | now I cannot place a call because it says Missing SIM altough the SIMÂ seems to be well placed |
| 11:54.43 | jernst | is there some configuration to do or should IÂ check the sim card socket ? |
| 11:56.37 | *** join/#openmoko yoyo (n=yoyo@c20-97.icpnet.pl) |
| 11:56.51 | henk | jernst: iirc the new gsm firmware can fix that problem. have a look at the wiki about it. |
| 11:57.03 | yoyo | hi |
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| 12:22.12 | jernst | henk: will try thanks |
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| 13:12.31 | jernst | the gsm flash upgrade didn't go as planned... I tried everything on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing |
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| 13:14.16 | jernst | it always stays stucks somewhere |
| 13:14.27 | jernst | sometime ****4, other times C------ |
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| 13:19.19 | jernst | I think I'll have to return it :-( |
| 13:22.16 | PaulFertser_ | jernst: Do you know that there's an advanced flashing method (probably involving ROM bootloader of calypso, but i'm not sure)? |
| 13:22.49 | jernst | PaulFertser_: I think that's with -oo instead of -oO |
| 13:22.49 | PaulFertser_ | jernst: Are you sure you've disabled every app that could want to touch the modem during your flashing? |
| 13:23.08 | jernst | yes I'm using the recommanded fso-console image |
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| 13:26.52 | PaulFertser_ | jernst: that's strange. The instructions worked well for me, exactly as described on the wiki (despite i used my Debian install)... |
| 13:27.38 | jernst | PaulFertser_: could you use your sim card at all before following those instructions ? |
| 13:28.36 | PaulFertser_ | jernst: yes, i could. We've no 3G sim cards here yet, so that wasn't a problem. But there were many reports about not-working sim-cards, and gsm firmware update solved this issues. |
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| 13:31.24 | PaulFertser_ | jernst: Have you tried to flash an older firmware as described on the wiki? |
| 13:33.25 | jernst | yes I tried v.8 |
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| 13:35.26 | PaulFertser_ | jernst: you may get help from DocScrutinizer2 (Joerg), i think. If he's not too busy at ccc. :) |
| 13:36.01 | jernst | PaulFertser_: thanks, let's hope he can do something ;-) |
| 13:36.16 | jernst | I will try v. 7 downgrade |
| 13:36.44 | PaulFertser_ | jernst: To get help you probably need to ask him. Probably at #openmoko-cdevel ;) |
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| 13:45.08 | PaulFertser_ | jernst: just a wild guess. Have you tried lowering the baud rate? 57600? |
| 13:46.21 | jernst | yes |
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| 13:48.05 | PaulFertser_ | jernst: And you have no strange messages in dmesg during the update? I'm out of ideas then, sorry. Catch Joerg on irc ;) |
| 13:53.50 | PaulFertser_ | jernst: Have you tried what Michael described at http://n2.nabble.com/problems-with-calypso-firmware-update-tp1565196p1566012.html ? |
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| 13:55.14 | Valla | http://straseni.kompletne.cz/baf.php?page=straseni&kolo=7&od=62 ROFL ! xD |
| 13:55.45 | jernst | PaulFertser_: I tried something similar and the flash process always starts here (but it doesn't finish) |
| 13:56.03 | jernst | PaulFertser_: I will use the exact same command as Michael and let you know the difference |
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| 14:01.59 | Valla | http://straseni.kompletne.cz/baf.php?page=straseni&kolo=7&od=62 ROFL ! xD |
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| 14:24.26 | moritz | morning |
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| 14:25.31 | Tig| | afternoon |
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| 14:38.34 | Dave | Tig |
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| 14:39.06 | Tig| | Dave! |
| 14:41.45 | Dave | :P |
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| 14:51.17 | Tig| | right time to set up remoko and mythtv :) |
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| 15:07.24 | leachim_dot_eu | eig wollten wir ja weg |
| 15:07.35 | leachim_dot_eu | oh sry |
| 15:07.46 | leachim_dot_eu | wrong window ^^ |
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| 15:13.54 | think-free | is away: Ausente por el momento |
| 15:14.02 | think-free | is back. |
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| 15:36.24 | jonkristian | It's quite, is everybody in bed with openvibe? |
| 15:37.03 | Defiant- | openvibe? |
| 15:37.05 | igor321 | on my crotch as i type :P |
| 15:37.20 | igor321 | keeps me relaxed |
| 15:37.35 | jonkristian | nice:) |
| 15:37.47 | jonkristian | Probably the most useful thing i've seen so far. |
| 15:37.57 | igor321 | Defiant-: the gnu/vibrator |
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| 15:39.32 | ronny | wtfP |
| 15:39.33 | Defiant- | ! |
| 15:39.39 | Tig| | lawks |
| 15:39.40 | Defiant- | don't need that ;) |
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| 15:57.44 | Tig| | jonkristian, just made a minor enhancement to that wiki page :) |
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| 15:58.33 | Dave | go moko go moko go! |
| 15:58.48 | Dave | ronny, it's you! |
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| 16:00.48 | badzero | i searching a image for vbox ose for demo dokumentation how can i donload ? |
| 16:02.25 | *** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@U5202.u.pppool.de) |
| 16:02.50 | Tig| | badzero, I assume you mean : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Is_there_an_emulator_available_for_Openmoko.3F |
| 16:03.43 | badzero | yes emulation but worke this in vbox? |
| 16:04.15 | Tig| | Isnt vbox an x86 emulator? |
| 16:04.29 | zash__ | what about qemu |
| 16:05.00 | badzero | yes vbox emulate x86 |
| 16:05.17 | Tig| | badzero, openmoko runs on the ARM processor |
| 16:05.23 | *** join/#openmoko Gilly_ (n=btw@www.linusinstituutti.fi) |
| 16:05.30 | Tig| | so you need an ARM emulator |
| 16:05.44 | Tig| | such as qemu |
| 16:05.52 | zash__ | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu |
| 16:06.27 | JaMa | and is there kernel for gta02fake machine? or newer machine directly for gta02? |
| 16:06.47 | JaMa | In svn is still only 02fake and patch for some revision of andy-2.6.26 kernel.. :( |
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| 16:11.47 | badzero | ok thats litelbit komplicadet for me with pach wath ever |
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| 16:23.17 | PaulFertser | jernst: i might have missed your status report. Is your problem solved? |
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| 16:43.10 | Dave | How are you gentlemen? |
| 16:43.13 | Dave | and ronny |
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| 17:07.39 | Mortak | hi all |
| 17:08.12 | fredrin1 | all say hay |
| 17:08.36 | pcfe | trying to import a few hundred addresses from jPilot vcf export to the QT image, I run into the problem of having UTF-8 chars in my version 3.0 file. How do I convert that cvf file to version 2.1? |
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| 17:26.15 | Dave | Cervajz :o |
| 17:26.25 | Cervajz | Dave: ? :) |
| 17:26.58 | Cervajz | Dave: What's happanned? |
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| 17:32.22 | Dave | Hi hi hi |
| 17:32.32 | Dave | you still have those images up on cervajz ftp? ^^ |
| 17:34.00 | Cervajz | Dave: Hello, no I don't have? Do you want it? |
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| 17:35.10 | Dave | I recall someone uploading it to your ftp, I believe. |
| 17:35.25 | Dave | I remembered, but then I could never remember the spelling of your name :P |
| 17:36.00 | Cervajz | Dave: I have Om2007 Om2008.8 2008.9 2008.12 |
| 17:36.47 | Cervajz | Dave: Android, FAD, Qtopia and FSO too |
| 17:37.09 | Cervajz | Dave: I can very simple move it into my server, if you want ;) |
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| 17:49.48 | moritz | just wrote my first python/gtk program |
| 17:50.04 | moritz | a vibrator application for the freerunner =) |
| 17:50.19 | moritz | supports fast, medium and low vibration |
| 17:50.53 | Tig| | moritz, would this be openvibe? :) |
| 17:51.02 | moritz | also a good name |
| 17:51.09 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=fz@ppp-88-217-85-17.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 17:51.11 | moritz | so far its called NeoVibrate |
| 17:51.41 | ronny | does it have hints for adult usage? |
| 17:51.46 | moritz | no |
| 17:51.50 | leinir | moritz: What Tig| is referring to is that one was released earlier this month with that name :) |
| 17:51.53 | Tig| | ah ther is one called openvibe already : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenVibe |
| 17:51.55 | moritz | oh |
| 17:51.59 | moritz | damn |
| 17:52.25 | Tig| | there is something very telling about the first apps that people are writing for the FR :P |
| 17:52.36 | moritz | a bit competition isn't a bad thing, i guess |
| 17:53.03 | Dave | Cervajz: YES :D |
| 17:53.09 | Dave | Let me steal :] |
| 17:53.13 | tschaka | moritz or a bit cooperation :p |
| 17:53.27 | moritz | :-) |
| 17:53.54 | moritz | if just my fucking gps would work |
| 17:53.55 | Cervajz | Dave: What concrete do you want? |
| 17:54.20 | Tig| | tschaka, so you are suggesting cooperating with vibrators? :P |
| 17:54.29 | Dave | concrete? |
| 17:54.31 | tschaka | Tig| haha :D |
| 17:54.35 | Dave | more like image/kernels! |
| 17:54.46 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@35-239-dsl.kielnet.net) |
| 17:55.18 | Tig| | tschaka, actully it could have been worse, it could have been a split of the first codebase, then you would have forking vibrators :P |
| 17:55.44 | Dave | o_o |
| 17:55.48 | Dave | Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
| 17:55.48 | SpeedEvil | Forking codebases can be a pain in the butt. |
| 17:55.55 | Dave | and a retarded idea |
| 17:55.59 | Tig| | moritz, GPS problems? |
| 17:56.21 | Tig| | SpeedEvil, forking vibrators can be a pain in the <NO CARRIER> |
| 17:56.27 | ronny | lol? |
| 17:57.13 | moritz | Tig|: yes. so far i did not have gps working once. |
| 17:57.20 | Dave | ONE CANNOT SIMPLY TANGOGPS THEIR WAY INTO MORDOR |
| 17:57.39 | SpeedEvil | Yes you can. |
| 17:57.57 | SpeedEvil | You just need a GPS that supports latitude, longitude, altitude, and imaginary components. |
| 17:58.17 | Dave | :D |
| 17:58.18 | Tig| | SpeedEvil, the FR one supports imaginary movement :) |
| 17:58.34 | Tig| | you can be standing still and it will be all over the place :) |
| 17:58.55 | *** join/#openmoko chomwitt_ (n=chomwitt@adsl47-171.ath.forthnet.gr) |
| 17:58.55 | moritz | what's the recommended way for "fixing up" permissions of entries beneath /sys? |
| 17:58.56 | *** join/#openmoko imme-away (n=imme@unaffiliated/immeemosol) |
| 17:59.13 | SpeedEvil | err - no |
| 17:59.16 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 17:59.24 | Tig| | moritz, I have had no problems with it here on any recent image, it works best on FSO based images IME |
| 17:59.26 | moritz | simply adding commands to /etc/rc.local? |
| 17:59.29 | imme-emosol | anyone dutch in here? |
| 17:59.56 | moritz | Tig|: right now i have Debian on my SD card and that OM 2008.12 image in flash. never got a fix. |
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| 18:00.09 | moritz | i mean: a "gps fix" |
| 18:00.31 | moritz | Tig|: as far as i know Debian is based on that FSO thing. |
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| 18:01.35 | Tig| | moritz, ok first things are the obvious you are pointing it upwards |
| 18:01.41 | imme-emosol | Is the Neo Freerunner stable enough to use it daily? I've read battery-life is max. 3 hrs. under constant use, is this true? |
| 18:02.00 | SpeedEvil | No, yes, maybe. |
| 18:02.07 | moritz | Tig|: sorry? |
| 18:02.32 | Tig| | you are not lying the phone down while waiting for a fix are you? |
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| 18:03.48 | moritz | well, several times i tried to have my FR lying next to an open window. several times i was carrying it outside while walking around. |
| 18:03.53 | imme-emosol | SpeedEvil: sure? |
| 18:05.19 | moritz | shall i throw it into the air while waiting for a fix? :) |
| 18:05.47 | SpeedEvil | imme-emosol: yes |
| 18:05.56 | Tig| | moritz, hmm most odd. it works here, takes a while to get the first fix though |
| 18:06.28 | SpeedEvil | imme-emosol: it's not really suitable for a day-day phone by any other than the insane, it can last as little as 3-4 hours unplugged, and the actual battery life depends on distribution. |
| 18:06.39 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201.45.49.162) |
| 18:07.23 | *** join/#openmoko _DerHorst (n=Horst@e182092105.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:07.34 | imme-emosol | SpeedEvil: But the 3-4 hours unplugged is the only reason for it not being suitable for a day-day-phone, or is there more to that? |
| 18:07.36 | *** join/#openmoko bartv (n=magick@demands.xs4all.nl) |
| 18:07.54 | *** join/#openmoko widrone (n=drone@unaffiliated/widrone) |
| 18:07.59 | SpeedEvil | there's more. |
| 18:08.24 | SpeedEvil | Unfixable buzz on some users phones, needing hardware fix, and suspend problems at the moment. |
| 18:08.54 | Tig| | the phone stack is very basic on some distributions |
| 18:09.24 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: hardware fix is simple. And what suspend problems are you talking about? |
| 18:10.31 | lindi- | PaulFertser: it's simple in some ways yes but it's bit tricky since it is hardware stuff :) |
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| 18:11.08 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@90-227-33-55-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 18:11.12 | PaulFertser | lindi-: people seem to be _too_ afraid of any hardware stuff. Therefore they tend to over-complicate problems. |
| 18:11.53 | lindi- | PaulFertser: yes i am afraid of breaking it :) |
| 18:12.56 | PaulFertser | lindi-: i can't believe there exists a place in a civilised world where you can't find a guy who does SMT rework. |
| 18:13.56 | PaulFertser | lindi-: i had my tooth fixed today. Doesn't seem to be much trickier than fixing buzz on FR ;) |
| 18:14.44 | *** join/#openmoko samgee (n=samgee@70.35-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 18:15.34 | lindi- | PaulFertser: sure |
| 18:15.46 | lindi- | PaulFertser: but it's not a matter of apt-get install, i mean, you need to talk to people IRL :) |
| 18:16.14 | *** join/#openmoko lpotter (n=lpotter@58.173.176.153) |
| 18:16.15 | PaulFertser | lindi-: that can be hard for FR owners, indeed :) |
| 18:16.29 | *** join/#openmoko alexxy|home (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171) |
| 18:16.41 | SpeedEvil | paulproteus: sure |
| 18:16.49 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: it's 'simple' in terms of rework. |
| 18:17.09 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: in what terms it's hard then? |
| 18:17.18 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: would you buy a phone that needed a hardware fix that will not be warrantied if the guy screws it up and kills your phone? |
| 18:17.46 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: if it's the only phone that can give me freedom, yes. |
| 18:18.08 | SpeedEvil | Fair enough. |
| 18:18.15 | lindi- | PaulFertser: bluetooth headset can workaround buzz too |
| 18:18.21 | SpeedEvil | It's _definately_ not a 'normal user' option though. |
| 18:18.45 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: actually, i did. I don't think i can really count on warranty from koolu, as my phone was bought and transfered by a proxy that's already non-existant. |
| 18:19.29 | SpeedEvil | Having said that, I'd expect fixed phones to start hitting the OM store real soon now. |
| 18:19.33 | SpeedEvil | If this is fact or not... |
| 18:20.11 | *** join/#openmoko ScarEye (n=scareye@12.27.87.124) |
| 18:20.40 | bumbl | SpeedEvil: the question is what is with the European freerunner users which all have 2 years warranty |
| 18:21.06 | SpeedEvil | bumbl: consumer legislation in some places requires 2 year warranties |
| 18:21.29 | SpeedEvil | If however, the backer of that guarantee has gone bankrupt, ... |
| 18:21.47 | bumbl | yeah and the buzz rework falls into the guarantee |
| 18:21.49 | PaulFertser | bumbl: is it guaranteed by the resellers? Then ask them. What do they say now? |
| 18:21.54 | SpeedEvil | (as PaulFertser implied - I'm haven't checked) |
| 18:22.27 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=grml@adsl-074-236-102-092.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:22.51 | *** join/#openmoko alexxy|home (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171) |
| 18:23.08 | bumbl | so openmoko or the resellers will have to pay for it |
| 18:23.32 | SpeedEvil | Only if the reseller is in buisness, or has taken out insurance for that event. |
| 18:23.32 | orzo | pay for what? |
| 18:23.39 | SpeedEvil | pay for the rework |
| 18:23.48 | PaulFertser | bumbl: i don't remember openmoko having guaranteed any kind of warranty. So, i guess, it's provided by the retailers. |
| 18:23.59 | SpeedEvil | There was a 15 day DOA warranty |
| 18:24.02 | orzo | what rework? |
| 18:24.10 | SpeedEvil | orzing: to fix the GSM buzz |
| 18:24.21 | SpeedEvil | orzo=orzing? |
| 18:24.25 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: that's not exactly warranty we're talking about though. |
| 18:24.28 | orzo | no |
| 18:24.32 | bumbl | PaulFertser: openmoko gave the European resellers a kind of warranty |
| 18:25.02 | bumbl | afair |
| 18:25.05 | PaulFertser | bumbl: was it publicly announced? I can't remember seeing anything about it. |
| 18:25.15 | bumbl | PaulFertser: nah |
| 18:25.22 | SpeedEvil | bumbl: as I understand, no. YYou caan't sell consumers stuff with less than a 2 year waarranty. |
| 18:25.32 | bumbl | it wasn't |
| 18:25.37 | SpeedEvil | Insome parts of europe. |
| 18:25.39 | bumbl | SpeedEvil: not in the EU |
| 18:25.45 | Tig| | I don't think there has ever been a clear statement by OM regarding warranties |
| 18:25.57 | SpeedEvil | Tig|: sure there has. |
| 18:26.09 | PaulFertser | MichaelShiloh: Are you still with OM? |
| 18:26.11 | SpeedEvil | Tig|: 15 day DOA, it came on a beermat with the device. |
| 18:26.15 | *** join/#openmoko HauDyr (n=kim@82.211.215.56) |
| 18:26.20 | Tig| | well apart from the DoA one |
| 18:26.43 | Tig| | my beer mat did not say anything about that, it just had a proverb on it |
| 18:27.01 | Tig| | oh and a thank your for freeing your phone or something |
| 18:27.12 | SpeedEvil | And a unicorn. |
| 18:27.45 | Tig| | and a cat toy |
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| 18:30.44 | *** join/#openmoko ratdonkey (n=jake@98.117.97.56) |
| 18:31.37 | bumbl | yeah |
| 18:31.52 | bumbl | actually i found the packaging of the freerunner really nice |
| 18:32.14 | SpeedEvil | I have no complaints at all as to the packaging. |
| 18:32.15 | Defiant- | bumbl: really? |
| 18:32.29 | Tig| | same here I thought the packaging was good |
| 18:32.35 | Defiant- | I got my freeruner in a 50x80x80 or something package |
| 18:32.36 | orzo | is openmoko reworking the hardware to elliminate the buzz? |
| 18:32.46 | PaulFertser | orzo: no |
| 18:32.58 | Defiant- | in it was a smaller package in which the the freeuner package was |
| 18:33.51 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-darl3-0-0-cust154.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:33.59 | bumbl | Defiant-: well I got a black box with green thing around it |
| 18:34.08 | bumbl | and in it the freerunner + a gift card |
| 18:34.20 | bumbl | everything looking very good |
| 18:34.32 | *** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 18:34.46 | moritz | i especially liked the paper notes with the logo of "Golden Delicious" |
| 18:35.08 | moritz | if i recall correctly, that's a sort of apples. |
| 18:36.02 | bumbl | i orderd by pulster so i didn't get that one |
| 18:36.35 | bumbl | although on the long term it would have been better to order @ gol del or trisoft |
| 18:41.44 | orzo | what's a 3g network |
| 18:41.48 | orzo | heh |
| 18:41.54 | orzo | my sim says 3g on it, and it works |
| 18:42.08 | PaulFertser | orzo: they're backward compatible |
| 18:42.11 | tschaka | 3g sim cards work with 3g and 2g |
| 18:42.18 | orzo | oh |
| 18:42.36 | tschaka | :) |
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| 18:49.35 | *** join/#openmoko thrashold (n=europan@3mhz.net) |
| 18:49.54 | thrashold | Any idea how to disable the mouse cursor in Qt apps? |
| 18:52.30 | think-free | thrashold : yes, wait |
| 18:52.38 | think-free | i'm looking for it |
| 18:53.06 | think-free | ->setCursor(QCursor(Qt::BlankCursor)); |
| 18:53.19 | thrashold | think-free: Thank you very much :) |
| 18:53.23 | think-free | ;) |
| 18:53.39 | think-free | is away |
| 18:53.44 | think-free | is back |
| 18:54.12 | think-free | is away |
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| 19:04.04 | Digital_Pioneer | Hello, world! |
| 19:04.14 | seameat | hi there |
| 19:04.45 | Digital_Pioneer | So what amazing advances have we made since yesterday? Who's got my stable kernel? |
| 19:04.54 | *** join/#openmoko mb_ (n=mbuesch@p5B09F35A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:05.06 | Digital_Pioneer | C'mon, someone give me the 3D mouse program. |
| 19:05.09 | Digital_Pioneer | :P |
| 19:05.14 | mb_ | are there any datasheets available on the wireless? |
| 19:05.44 | Digital_Pioneer | Has someone got me a WiFi GUI that supports static IPs yet? Heheh |
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| 19:32.26 | Slaxxin | i guess thats a NO |
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| 19:49.03 | Digital_Pioneer | Yeah, I guess not. |
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| 19:50.31 | Tig| | you could always get your DHCP server to issue the same one based on the MAC address |
| 19:51.15 | Digital_Pioneer | Tig|: I have no DHCP server. :) |
| 19:51.32 | Digital_Pioneer | The router doesn't send it. |
| 19:52.01 | Tig| | odd, is there not even one on the AP ? |
| 19:52.12 | *** join/#openmoko alexxy|home (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171) |
| 19:52.37 | Digital_Pioneer | There is, but I'm behind a wireless repeater, and it won't send past that. A bug known to that model, apparently. |
| 19:52.52 | Tig| | ah |
| 19:53.05 | Digital_Pioneer | Fortunately, I know everything I need to to configure manually. |
| 19:53.44 | Digital_Pioneer | But it's a real pain to type it all into terminal on the FR, when SSH isn't possible. |
| 19:54.00 | mwester | create a shell script - less typing. |
| 19:54.06 | Tig| | bung it all a script |
| 19:54.10 | Tig| | call it a.sh :) |
| 19:54.33 | Digital_Pioneer | Heheh |
| 19:54.39 | Digital_Pioneer | True enough |
| 19:56.07 | imme-emosol | SpeedEvil: So, I'm no developer, but I do program oo-php and I only use ubuntu on my own machines, do *you* think I am insane enough to try to use the FR as my day2day-phone? |
| 19:56.29 | *** join/#openmoko booxter (n=booxter@night02.sml.by) |
| 19:57.29 | Tig| | imme-emosol, it is less your linux skills more your willingness to miss calls / text messages have a running battle with battery and suspend issues and are willing to lose your contacts and sms each time you reflash every week or so |
| 19:58.17 | Digital_Pioneer | Ehh? Contacts and SMS are kept on SIM. |
| 19:58.21 | Digital_Pioneer | Reflash won't lose 'em. |
| 19:58.51 | imme-emosol | Tig|: okay, that's do-able. But will this piece of hardware be stable in the end some day, or will I probably have to buy new hardware? |
| 19:59.27 | Digital_Pioneer | GTA03 will probably save the world. But until then, we work to perfect GTA02. :P |
| 19:59.29 | *** join/#openmoko blan (n=blan@HSI-KBW-082-212-048-118.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 19:59.50 | Tig| | well the hardware is capable of being stable (after the buzz rework) it is more your patience while it is all being sorted |
| 19:59.57 | Digital_Pioneer | Honestly, I see nothing serious wrong with the hardware. |
| 20:00.31 | imme-emosol | I am very patient for stuff being sorted, I am however not so patient about ordering a FR. :P My current mobile-phone is falling apart you see... |
| 20:00.41 | Digital_Pioneer | Heheh |
| 20:00.54 | Tig| | If you are thinking of getting a FR I would also get a dirt cheap basic phone too to have as a back up |
| 20:01.01 | Digital_Pioneer | FR is my first phone. I still don't have anyone to call or be called by, but I love the phone. :P |
| 20:01.32 | imme-emosol | Tig|: backup for calling people? |
| 20:01.55 | Tig| | or for being called |
| 20:02.29 | imme-emosol | Hmmm, I think the people that want to call me will have to be as patient as me for things to get sorted out. Bad luck for them. ghehe. |
| 20:02.40 | Digital_Pioneer | Heheh' |
| 20:02.53 | Tig| | basically you will be playing with it and breaking it from time to time (even when it is working) so you may want a backup phone while you are spending ages messing about with it |
| 20:03.14 | Digital_Pioneer | Bah, just keep a backup flash handy at all times. :) |
| 20:03.32 | Digital_Pioneer | Oh, a backup battery would be good too. |
| 20:03.45 | Digital_Pioneer | needs one of those... |
| 20:03.52 | imme-emosol | 'nother question... qt or om? |
| 20:03.58 | Digital_Pioneer | SHR |
| 20:04.04 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176119235.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:04.15 | imme-emosol | Digital_Pioneer: I get an extra battery for nothing I order before 15 January. :) |
| 20:04.34 | Digital_Pioneer | imme-emosol: OK, have them send it to me. |
| 20:04.37 | Tig| | I personally think SHR, SMS is a bit flaky |
| 20:04.47 | Digital_Pioneer | Agreed, but I don't use SMS. |
| 20:04.53 | imme-emosol | Digital_Pioneer: You funny... |
| 20:05.00 | Digital_Pioneer | :) |
| 20:05.22 | imme-emosol | SHR, no screenies? :P |
| 20:05.47 | *** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl) |
| 20:06.21 | Tig| | http://shr.bearstech.com/trac/wiki/Screenshots |
| 20:06.45 | *** join/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@85.93.174.26) |
| 20:07.47 | imme-emosol | hm a tid iPhoney ... looks okay. |
| 20:08.12 | imme-emosol | But anyway, where I am ordering they are only offering to put om2008 or qt on it before they ship it to me... |
| 20:08.41 | Tig| | reflashing a FR is not hard |
| 20:08.48 | Tig| | and you will get used to it |
| 20:08.57 | Tig| | very used to it |
| 20:08.58 | imme-emosol | 'kay. :D |
| 20:09.16 | imme-emosol | So the debug-board will probably be handy as well right? |
| 20:09.48 | Tig| | unless you are doing hardware dev or low level programming dev you will not need one |
| 20:11.01 | Digital_Pioneer | imme-emosol: Yeah, a word to the wise: always have a up-to-speed backup flash handy. :) |
| 20:11.27 | Digital_Pioneer | Also, check out Neotool. Nice GUI someone put together for flashing, backing up, etc. OM phones. |
| 20:14.11 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@net203-187-146.mclink.it) |
| 20:14.13 | imme-emosol | And suddenly I realize, whilst looking at the openmoko-wiki, what am I whining about on IRC? If something goes wrong, I can read the wiki, I can go to IRC, the problem will be fixed. There is absolutely no need to hesitate. :D |
| 20:14.42 | Digital_Pioneer | Yes, the wiki is very useful. :) |
| 20:14.49 | imme-emosol | Digital_Pioneer: You're remarks have been analogly stored, thanks. |
| 20:14.57 | Digital_Pioneer | LOL |
| 20:15.51 | tschaka | question, is this echo on calling issue on every distribution? and does the gsm stop working after x hours on every distribution, too? |
| 20:19.16 | daMaestro | the echo on calls is fixed in 2008.12 |
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| 20:22.34 | tschaka | oh, thanks, nice :) |
| 20:24.40 | imme-emosol | So, will it erase my sim or just the flash? |
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| 21:02.27 | imme-emosol | I don't understand... My sim, will it be safe inside the FR or might it `crash`? |
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| 21:03.47 | Tig| | eh? I have never removed my SIM before flashing |
| 21:04.14 | Tig| | flashing only effects the phone memory not the sim |
| 21:04.24 | mjr | there shouldn't be anything there to fry it... oh, I suppose sufficiently wonky software could lock it up by trying the wrong pin and puk a number of times but I haven't had any do that yet ;] |
| 21:04.28 | mjr | yeah |
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| 21:04.54 | mjr | the sim's nothing to do with flashing |
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| 21:09.21 | hajmola | the community update said that 2008.12 will be the last ASU release... what are they switching to after that? |
| 21:09.46 | Tm_T | FSO |
| 21:09.50 | mwester | Something else new and untried: it is called "paroli" |
| 21:10.10 | mwester | It sounds like a funny-shaped pasta to me. |
| 21:10.21 | Tm_T | mwester: ah, that's what they call as the frontend of the attempt nowadays |
| 21:10.39 | *** join/#openmoko booxter (n=booxter@night02.sml.by) |
| 21:10.56 | Tig| | I thought the backend was going to be FSO and they were going to use paroli instead of the qt phone suite |
| 21:11.13 | mwester | Yep. They'll be use FSO for the framework, so unlike the previous attempts, this time it might be that Openmoko *cannot* screw it up as badly! :P |
| 21:11.40 | Tig| | puts that quote on a t-shirt |
| 21:12.11 | imme-emosol | Okay, thanks mjr and Tig| ... Hmmm the PUK, I'll go through my papers, 'cause I'll probably need it... |
| 21:12.14 | mwester | But I still think that a year from today, it will be Android, FSO/SHR, and possibly (but unlikely as they seem to have fallen asleep) Nokia/Trolltech with Qt Extended. |
| 21:12.45 | mwester | I think FSO/SHR is clearly the one that will do what most people expected of the device. :) |
| 21:13.05 | PaulFertser | mwester: What if OM starts to push on FSO team to deliver features and do it fast etc? Then i guess they can easily screw FSO as well. |
| 21:13.08 | Tm_T | mwester: I afraid Qtext department is needing more manpower |
| 21:13.15 | hajmola | does FSO have the ability to import contacts from a vcf or text file? |
| 21:13.25 | mwester | PaulFertser: Mickey will beat OM back into submission once again ;) |
| 21:13.26 | Tig| | no |
| 21:13.56 | PaulFertser | Tm_T: Qtext department is needing more independence from paying customers. |
| 21:13.57 | Tig| | hajmola, not at the moment, FSO is more of a testing image for the framework |
| 21:14.03 | mwester | Tm_T: I think you are right, but as long as the development effort is not a community effort, they will have few volunteers. |
| 21:14.34 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun` (n=ajbrun@host86-155-240-150.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:15.55 | PaulFertser | Tm_T: lpotter told me that the fixes developed in OM during ASU debugging were non-portable and therefore not accepted. And in an e-mail to the community mailing list he stated that they don't disclose many parts of Qtext due to NDA's with customers. That closeness is exactly the reason OM's fixes were not portable. One just can't guess what they're hiding. |
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| 21:17.37 | Tm_T | mwester: I know |
| 21:18.27 | Tm_T | PaulFertser: oh I know that |
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| 21:21.30 | king | I read this at the openmoko wiki. Can someone explain further? "In other words: if your existing router and desktop have addresses 192.168.0.(something) changing them to e.g. 192.168.1.(something) might save you a lot of troubleshooting later." |
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| 21:22.42 | king | Does that mean that if I set my laptop's IP as 192.168.1.x and gateway's as 192.168.1.x, it makes configuration easier as Neo is on 192.168.0.202? |
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| 21:23.10 | *** part/#openmoko imme-emosol (n=imme@unaffiliated/immeemosol) |
| 21:23.14 | Tig| | king, yes |
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| 21:24.24 | king | Tig|,And what if I have my laptop as 192.168.4.x and my router as 192.168.4.x. Does that also make configuration equally easy, or do I require my gateway and desktop to be on 192.168.1.x? |
| 21:24.47 | Tig| | king does not matter |
| 21:24.54 | king | Tig|, My understanding is that the only thing I should care about is that my laptop and gateway shouldn't be in the 192.168.0.x range. Is that right? |
| 21:24.54 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213-152-39-89.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) |
| 21:25.02 | Tig| | king that is correct |
| 21:25.29 | *** part/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213-152-39-89.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) |
| 21:25.56 | Tig| | basically your laptop will be on both networks so you want them on different ranges |
| 21:26.28 | *** join/#openmoko ScarEye_ (n=scareye@12.27.87.66) |
| 21:26.49 | king | Tig|, You mean Neo and the gateway to be on different ranges? The laptop is the binding thread, can it be on any range (that is neo's or the gateways) or should it be on the gateway's range for easier configuration? |
| 21:28.03 | Tig| | the neo should be on the 192.168.0.x range and you want your normal network on something else |
| 21:28.39 | king | Tig|, Does my laptop and gateway need to be on a similar range? Or can they be different? |
| 21:28.47 | Tig| | so your USB connection on the laptop should be 192.168.0.x and your ethernet / wifi should be different |
| 21:29.15 | Tig| | your wifi/ethernet connection on your laptop should be on the same range as your gateway |
| 21:29.24 | Tig| | or you will lose your net access :) |
| 21:30.17 | king | Tig|, What I understand as being in the 'same range' is being in the same series with just the last bit different, like 192.168.1.x. If my laptop has 192.168.1.x and my gateway has 192.168.4.x ip. Are they still considered to be on the same range? |
| 21:30.19 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal_ (n=azaghal@91.148.113.135) |
| 21:30.33 | king | *in |
| 21:31.31 | Tig| | right, set your gateway to be 192.168.1.1 and your laptop to 192.168.1.2 and it will be fine :) or let your gateway assign an IP via DHCP |
| 21:32.17 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=toi@d54C2AAB7.access.telenet.be) |
| 21:32.22 | Tig| | if your laptop is in the 192.168.1.x range and the gateway is in the 192.168.4.x range then they are in different ranges and it will not work |
| 21:32.44 | king | Tig|, Oh, that addresses my query. |
| 21:32.58 | *** join/#openmoko gringo (n=gringo@195.202.184.107) |
| 21:32.59 | Tig| | no problem :) |
| 21:33.24 | *** join/#openmoko mirko-paroli (n=mirko@80.251.192.3) |
| 21:33.32 | *** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=matic@BSN-95-237-239.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 21:33.46 | king | Tig|, Okay now I set my laptop and gateway to 192.168.1.x range. I am on ubuntu and I am able to log in via ssh into the Neo. I can ping my laptop from the ssh shell of the Neo but my router, outside world is not visible. |
| 21:34.03 | king | *from the neo |
| 21:34.09 | Tig| | right you probably don't have a DNS server set up on the Neo |
| 21:34.33 | Tig| | can you ping 66.249.91.104 from the neo |
| 21:34.37 | king | Tig|, I am pinging the internal IP of my gateway from the neo. That doesn't need a DNS server. |
| 21:34.40 | king | Tig|, no. |
| 21:34.55 | Tig| | right are you following the instructions on the wiki |
| 21:36.12 | Tig| | try this |
| 21:36.14 | king | Tig|, I am trying to follow them the best I can, specifically the http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking page. But I am not able to understand the iptables part. |
| 21:36.25 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@159.61.75-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 21:36.45 | Tig| | ok lets work through it :) |
| 21:37.24 | king | Tig|, Thanks :) |
| 21:37.27 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst_ (n=Horst@e176117183.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:37.28 | king | Tig|, I am here, iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24 |
| 21:37.30 | king | sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 |
| 21:37.30 | king | ip addr add 192.168.0.200/24 dev usb0 |
| 21:37.33 | Tig| | what you are doing is using IP tables to pass the traffic along from the freerunner to the gateway :) |
| 21:37.50 | Tig| | king : you need to either put sudo before each of those commands |
| 21:37.59 | king | Tig|, alright... |
| 21:38.04 | Tig| | or use the command sudo -s |
| 21:38.08 | Tig| | first |
| 21:38.14 | king | Tig|, I have not executed these yet. I need to understand what they are. |
| 21:38.28 | Tig| | they don't need modifications to work |
| 21:38.45 | king | Could you talk about the first line -s 192.168.0.0/24? Does that equal 255.255.0.0? |
| 21:38.47 | Tig| | the first one is the one that tells iptables to pass the traffic |
| 21:39.41 | Tig| | basically what it is saying is that it should allow and route traffic for all data coming from the 192.168.0.x network |
| 21:39.48 | Tig| | which is what the freerunner is on |
| 21:39.55 | mmontour | king: "/24" = 255.255.255.0. The number after the "/" is the number of "1" bits in the netmask (so "/8" = 255.0.0.0). |
| 21:39.57 | king | Alright, simple enough till now, I get it. |
| 21:40.14 | king | mmontour, so bigger the bit number smaller the network. |
| 21:40.49 | king | Tig|, Could you talk about the last line 'ip addr add...usb0'? |
| 21:40.52 | Tig| | king, the /24 is CIDR |
| 21:41.00 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-76-200-129-140.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:41.17 | king | Tig|, Right, I am good with that part :) |
| 21:41.23 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=chatzill@79-70-62-69.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:41.27 | Tig| | the last line simply adds the 192.168.0.200 address on the USB port |
| 21:41.42 | Tig| | basically putting a network connection on the end of the USB cable |
| 21:42.15 | king | Tig|, ok... I can ping the google.com from Neo's ssh shell now. |
| 21:42.19 | Tig| | but the clever part is that that connction is on the 192.168.0.x range which we have already told IPtables that we want to let through |
| 21:42.36 | king | Tig|, How would I change the name server's in Neo's /etc/resolv.conf? I can't execute gedit / vim on the ssh shell. |
| 21:42.41 | *** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer2 (n=jr-N810@echelon.ext.c-base.org) |
| 21:42.58 | Tig| | vi is available |
| 21:43.09 | king | Tig|, I don't think I am at that level to appreciate the beauty of the commands. It is just like calculus :( |
| 21:43.27 | Tig| | vi is similar to vim |
| 21:43.48 | Tig| | but if you can ping www.google.com you have a working nameserver already |
| 21:44.17 | *** join/#openmoko emilis_info (n=emilis@clt-84-32-58-67.vdnet.lt) |
| 21:44.32 | *** join/#openmoko [Rui] (n=Rui@81.84.169.253) |
| 21:44.41 | king | Tig|, I just needed to put in other public dns server's, not the opendns ones that come by default as my school uses opendns's dns side filtering. |
| 21:44.50 | king | Tig|, Its done now. |
| 21:45.02 | king | If I reboot my machine and reconnect the neo, will I have to execute all the commands again? |
| 21:45.41 | Tig| | ah right then, rm /etc/resolve.conf && echo nameserver dns.server.address > /etc/resolv.conf |
| 21:45.42 | Tig| | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:45.55 | Tig| | king: yes |
| 21:46.46 | king | Tig|, Ah, all of them? Specifically, ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0, followed by the three iptables related commands above? Is that all? |
| 21:46.51 | *** join/#openmoko yoyo (n=yoyo@c20-97.icpnet.pl) |
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| 21:47.28 | Tig| | you only need those three lines |
| 21:47.43 | king | Not the ifconfig usb0 lines? |
| 21:48.11 | Tig| | the last line does the same as the ifconfig line |
| 21:48.32 | king | Tig|, stupid me. Yes. |
| 21:48.44 | Tig| | just slightly different ways of doing it :) |
| 21:49.02 | Tig| | king, not stupid it was a valid question :) |
| 21:49.16 | king | Tig|, I am using Om2008.12 on the Neo, When I go to installer and select any of the categories (eg. Maps), I don't get a list of applications to click. Do I have to update the package list and all through the ssh shell? Doesn't the phone do it? |
| 21:49.42 | king | Tig|, You have been very encouraging. Kindly tell me when I get on your nerves :) |
| 21:49.48 | Tig| | can't help you there, I would have thought you could do it through the GUI I am running SHR here :) |
| 21:50.02 | Tig| | is there not an Update button at the bottom of the app |
| 21:50.46 | king | Tig|, there is I pressed update, it becomes highlighted 'green' and the title changes to update packages. It doesn't 'do' anything that I can see. |
| 21:51.21 | *** part/#openmoko badcloud (n=bla@CBL217-132-78-212.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 21:51.56 | king | Tig|, I think the update, updates packages, could you point me in the right direction, to get the package list so that all the categories inside the installer actually display the software available? |
| 21:52.04 | DocScrutinizer2 | Dave: thousands of hackers here. OMG |
| 21:52.16 | Tig| | erk, I don't have the package manager handy here so not sure |
| 21:52.28 | jonkristian | Tig|: how's video/sound playback on shr now? |
| 21:52.29 | Tig| | Update usually updates the list of available packages |
| 21:52.46 | jonkristian | Im going on a trainride on friday, would be cool to bring some videos:) |
| 21:52.51 | Tig| | Upgrade usually upgrades installed packages |
| 21:53.28 | *** part/#openmoko emilis_info (n=emilis@clt-84-32-58-67.vdnet.lt) |
| 21:53.34 | king | Tig|, Right... But I don't see anything happen on the screen. I will have to trawl the wiki. |
| 21:53.37 | Tig| | jonkristian, not tried video recently but have used it to listen to last.fm around the house (albiet quietly) |
| 21:54.27 | jonkristian | Tig|: so you even got wireless working then? |
| 21:54.38 | Tig| | yeah out of the box |
| 21:54.42 | jonkristian | What are you using? testing/unstable? |
| 21:55.00 | Tig| | testing I think |
| 21:55.12 | *** join/#openmoko Alinermedia (n=jaranda@201.143.102.22.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 21:55.16 | jonkristian | gah, i wish i could get wireless running |
| 21:55.16 | *** part/#openmoko Alinermedia (n=jaranda@201.143.102.22.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 21:55.26 | Tig| | works fine here onto a WPA PSK network |
| 21:55.55 | jonkristian | last time i tried it did register on the router, it got ip, but disconnected like a split second after. |
| 21:56.13 | jonkristian | yeah, got WPA PSK aswell |
| 21:56.20 | jonkristian | did you use mofi for it? |
| 21:56.32 | king | Tig|, Would the usb-hotplug script automate the process of making a lan with the neo over usb, and allowing it to connect to my gateway? |
| 21:56.35 | Tig| | I refashed the other day with the latest images from the shr.bearstech site and worked out the box, it has worked out the box each time with SHR I have been very impressed onto to different networks too |
| 21:56.53 | Tig| | jonkristian, yes using mofi |
| 21:57.30 | king | Tig|, Is SHR more feature complete or FDOM? What would be the different user-case scenarios for both? |
| 21:57.44 | Tig| | king, possibly I have not tried it. I just made a script with those three line in it and run it each time :) |
| 21:57.46 | jonkristian | I just flashed these, shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2 from the 16th and uImage from the 14th |
| 21:57.54 | king | Tig|, :) |
| 21:58.21 | jonkristian | Tig|: sound is pretty bad out of the box |
| 21:58.45 | Tig| | king, SHR is a different kettle of fish to FDOM, it is based on the FSO image |
| 21:59.33 | king | SHR is based on the FSO image? I thought it was what the community forked into with one of the Om2007 versions. |
| 21:59.55 | Tig| | nope |
| 22:00.22 | king | Tig|, So SHR is bleeding edge, not outdated glued up stuff like FDOM? Is that a distinctionL |
| 22:00.54 | *** join/#openmoko nio_ (n=nio@5571ef58.dsl.concepts.nl) |
| 22:01.04 | Tig| | originally it was going to be the 2007 apps on top of the FSO framework then because the 2007 apps needed too much work to get them running on FSO then they started to replace them all with new software |
| 22:01.06 | *** join/#openmoko hanez (n=hanez@d091164.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 22:01.18 | Tig| | but this is better explained on the SHR site |
| 22:01.29 | *** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@75-101-13-24.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 22:02.18 | Tig| | SHR is bleeding edge, FDOM is just the 2008.x image with more preinstalled apps and a couple of patches |
| 22:02.20 | *** join/#openmoko alexxy (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171) |
| 22:02.44 | Tig| | but you are better off reading the project pages for each to really understand what they are all about |
| 22:03.00 | king | Tig|, I am still stuck at getting a list of applications in the installer in Om 2008.12. The wiki page says as soon as I launch installer it refreshes the package list. See: |
| 22:03.26 | king | This is force update via ssh: root@om-gta02:/etc# opkg update |
| 22:03.26 | king | Collected errors: |
| 22:03.26 | king | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:03.45 | Tig| | ah that is because the package manager backend is still running] |
| 22:04.05 | king | Tig|, I stopped it from within the interface. Do I need to kill the backend? |
| 22:04.08 | almien | Tig|: circular reference -- the SHR website says to ask in IRC for more info ;) |
| 22:04.29 | Tig| | almien, doh! |
| 22:04.56 | Tig| | king, run : killall packagekit |
| 22:05.16 | king | Tig|, no process killed |
| 22:05.18 | Tig| | then you will be able to do an opkg update |
| 22:05.34 | Tig| | bugger I can't remember what it is called |
| 22:05.38 | king | Tig|, OK... It is updating. |
| 22:05.51 | king | Tig|, I simply did opkg ugdate. |
| 22:06.10 | Tig| | cool |
| 22:06.41 | king | Tig|, I have one more question. Would you tell me how to put the modules archive in the right place? |
| 22:06.57 | king | Tig|, Do I extract it to /lib/modules/*? |
| 22:07.16 | Tig| | eh you don't need the modules archive unless you are running it from SD |
| 22:08.22 | Tig| | ie dual booting and running a second image from the SD card |
| 22:08.39 | jonkristian | this is straange |
| 22:08.54 | king | Tig|, I am thinking of using FDOM. It uses the standard mwester kernel from here, http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#kernels. Don't I also need to extract the modules given in the same page? They say I need it for full functionality. |
| 22:09.00 | jonkristian | the FR got 10.0.0.5 however it's not online, but i can ping it from my laptop |
| 22:09.10 | jonkristian | the router is showing that it's offline |
| 22:10.05 | Tig| | jonkristian, have you got MAC locking or filtering turned on at the router? |
| 22:10.10 | jonkristian | can not ssh |
| 22:10.22 | jonkristian | Tig|: no, it shouldnt lock/filter |
| 22:10.38 | jonkristian | man this is weird, but it's one step closer |
| 22:10.38 | Tig| | jonkristian, by default SSH will not listen on the wifi connection |
| 22:10.49 | Tig| | only on the USB connection |
| 22:10.50 | jonkristian | any way to determin if it's actually the fr? |
| 22:11.10 | jonkristian | i mean, the router is showing nothing, but i can ping the ip |
| 22:11.41 | Tig| | can you ping the FR from the router? |
| 22:12.26 | jonkristian | no |
| 22:12.30 | jonkristian | tried via telnet now |
| 22:13.17 | jonkristian | this is weirding me out, lool |
| 22:13.20 | king | Tig|, the okpg update process enden with * Failed to download http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8/om-gta02/Packages.sig, error 404 |
| 22:13.38 | king | Tig|, three other similar messages appeared also. |
| 22:14.01 | Tig| | and can you ping the router from the FR |
| 22:14.14 | jonkristian | Tig|: hahaha! |
| 22:14.19 | Tig| | king, are you using those kernels for a specific reason? |
| 22:14.20 | jonkristian | I can ping my laptop from the FR |
| 22:14.24 | jonkristian | But not the router |
| 22:15.03 | king | Tig|, Yes, the FDOM pages asks me to use that. Even the QTExtended page asks me to use the same kernel. |
| 22:15.39 | Tig| | I would think you only need the kernel unless it says otherwise on the FDOM page |
| 22:15.55 | Tig| | king, ignore all errors about missing .sig files |
| 22:16.45 | king | Does the four failed to download 404 errors means I have got the wrong repo list? Please note that this is a freshly flashed Neo :) |
| 22:16.49 | Tig| | jonkristian, is your router and wifi access point the same device |
| 22:17.03 | jonkristian | Tig|: ok, turned of the freerunner, and it's definatley the phones adress, pinging stopped |
| 22:17.06 | Tig| | king, no there are no .sig files available on any of the repos |
| 22:17.08 | jonkristian | Tig|: yes |
| 22:17.18 | jonkristian | s/of/off/ |
| 22:17.44 | jonkristian | Tig|: so ill try a reboot and see if it works then. |
| 22:17.49 | *** join/#openmoko Fish (n=SPARCman@AVelizy-152-1-24-153.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:17.57 | Tig| | king, they should contain package signatures but none of the repositories bother to generate them yet as the software is changing so fast so you can ignore all missing .sig file errors :) |
| 22:18.27 | Tig| | king, you will have the correct repos |
| 22:18.37 | orzo | why does the speed of software change prevent generating sigs |
| 22:18.43 | king | Tig|, Thanks for clearing that up. |
| 22:19.03 | king | orzing, because they have to be generated so often? |
| 22:19.33 | orzo | so do the packages themselves |
| 22:20.12 | Tig| | orzo yes it is the package signatures, I think it is also because it is minor issue and there are bigger things to do at the moment :) |
| 22:20.12 | orzo | so add a sig generating step |
| 22:21.48 | jonkristian | Tig|: same thing on reboot. |
| 22:21.51 | Tig| | orzo, don't look at me, I am just a user :) |
| 22:22.15 | Tig| | jonkristian, right so you can ping your laptop over wifi |
| 22:22.19 | Tig| | from your FR |
| 22:22.26 | king | Tig|,Would you tell me how / where to extract a modules archive? |
| 22:22.26 | *** join/#openmoko lpotter (n=lpotter@58.173.176.153) |
| 22:22.45 | jonkristian | the fr can ping the laptop and the laptop can ping the fr. but the router doesn't see the fr at all. it has the dns of the router and i can't ping global like google.com , so only internal network works, in a weird way. |
| 22:23.20 | Tig| | king, you cd / |
| 22:23.29 | Tig| | then run the tar command on the page |
| 22:23.46 | Tig| | tar xzf /path/to/modules-min-whatever.tgz |
| 22:23.59 | Tig| | it must have the paths embedded in the tar file |
| 22:24.01 | king | Tig|, the modules are on my laptop and the tarball has to be extracted into the freerunner, how do I do that? |
| 22:24.08 | seameat | jonkristian, sounds like a subnet issue |
| 22:24.17 | Tig| | copy the tar file to the freerunner first :) |
| 22:24.27 | *** join/#openmoko Alinermedia (n=jaranda@201.143.102.22.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 22:24.30 | king | Tig|, Alright so I just extract it at '/' of freerunner. |
| 22:24.32 | *** part/#openmoko Alinermedia (n=jaranda@201.143.102.22.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 22:24.42 | king | Tig|, :) I thought you would give me a better solution. |
| 22:24.43 | Tig| | king, that is what the webpage suggests |
| 22:25.07 | Tig| | seameat, it does |
| 22:25.19 | jonkristian | seameat: ifconfig shows correct, 255.255.255.0 |
| 22:25.25 | jonkristian | seameat: if that was what you meant |
| 22:25.29 | seameat | hmm |
| 22:25.33 | Tig| | on which device |
| 22:25.45 | jonkristian | the fr |
| 22:25.58 | Tig| | what does the FR think its route is? |
| 22:26.00 | jonkristian | ive compared with my laptop, and everything seems correct |
| 22:26.13 | Tig| | route -n |
| 22:26.23 | jonkristian | route -n shows 10.0.0.1 on gateway |
| 22:26.42 | jonkristian | same as the lappy |
| 22:26.47 | king | Tig|, If we were to compare SHR and Om2008.12. Which would you say has more application support, and which is more stable? |
| 22:26.48 | Tig| | and FR is 10.0.0.5 |
| 22:27.05 | jonkristian | yes |
| 22:27.41 | Tig| | king, I have not tried 2008.12 yet so can't comment but I prefer the FSO based images such as SHR as they handle GPS more elegantly and via the framework |
| 22:28.08 | henk | jonkristian: put the outputs of 'ip add' and 'ip route' from every device on a paste service |
| 22:28.11 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@97.61.75-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 22:28.13 | Tig| | and what is the lappy ip? |
| 22:28.25 | Tig| | henk, now that is a very good idea :) |
| 22:28.35 | seameat | perhaps the fr should view the pc as the gateway? |
| 22:28.37 | king | Tig|, Are equal number of packages / software available for SHR and Om2008.12? Do they use a common repo for the apps? |
| 22:28.57 | Tig| | seameat, this is connecting via wifi not usb |
| 22:29.19 | Tig| | king, yes there should be a similar number of packages for both |
| 22:29.31 | seameat | Tig|, oh ok |
| 22:29.40 | king | Tig|, Does SHR have the snazzy zhone home screen and all? |
| 22:29.51 | henk | Tig|: hehe ;) |
| 22:29.57 | Tig| | SHR does not have zhone but FSO does |
| 22:30.07 | Tig| | SHR has it's own dialler app |
| 22:30.24 | Digital_Pioneer | king: SHR has the openmoko-utilities for dialling, texting, contacts, phonelogging... |
| 22:30.26 | jonkristian | henk: laptop first, http://rafb.net/p/VFgP7k93.html and http://rafb.net/p/A4o89y14.html |
| 22:30.36 | Tig| | king, basically you will be flashing new images for the next week or so playing with all of them :) |
| 22:31.00 | Digital_Pioneer | king: I've tried every image I've found, I keep coming back to my SHR. |
| 22:31.26 | king | king, I already tried QTExtended (never using it again), FDOM (bloated to the point of being unusable, Om2008.12(so bare bones I needed to get the net working to comment) |
| 22:31.41 | king | Tig|, :) |
| 22:31.43 | seameat | Digital_Pioneer, after trying FDOM again, i settled there |
| 22:31.56 | Digital_Pioneer | Bleh, FDOM... Fat and dirty. |
| 22:32.02 | *** join/#openmoko ndrs__ (n=andres@89.100.141.53) |
| 22:32.04 | seameat | Digital_Pioneer, SHR gave me errors every time i opened an app which had to access my SIM |
| 22:32.13 | king | Digital_Pioneer, What would you say are the performance / stability / battery life difference between SHR and Om2008.12. |
| 22:32.38 | Digital_Pioneer | I had 08.12 for altogether about 10 minutes. |
| 22:32.41 | seameat | lol |
| 22:32.42 | almien | seameat: was that the error which goes away with latest kernel? |
| 22:32.47 | Tig| | seameat, that has been fixed now as far as I can see but SHR is still bleeding edge and images at the moment are still testing ones |
| 22:33.00 | Tig| | jonkristian, odd |
| 22:33.05 | Digital_Pioneer | There was no way to get in, so I ditched it. |
| 22:33.08 | *** join/#openmoko alexxy (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171) |
| 22:33.12 | jonkristian | henk: freerunner, http://rafb.net/p/Y9o7pO84.html and http://rafb.net/p/hOomGH26.html |
| 22:33.13 | seameat | almien, i was using mwester's kernel... which i like, so i didnt try the shr specific kernel |
| 22:33.24 | Tig| | I am just firing up my FR now but I thought wifi on the FR was the eth0 device |
| 22:33.25 | jonkristian | sorry for the long time, had to bring usb0 ssh and scp and paste |
| 22:33.29 | almien | recognises the 10 minutes for 2008.12 - that's about how long it lasted on my phone too |
| 22:33.53 | jonkristian | Tig|: the first paste was my laptop |
| 22:34.10 | king | Tig|, bleeding edge = lot of head banging for me :( |
| 22:34.27 | Tig| | jonkristian, http://rafb.net/p/A4o89y14.html <<== FR? |
| 22:34.36 | Tig| | ah sorry |
| 22:34.56 | seameat | Tig|, i see. perhaps i should flash the shr kernel instead of mwester's and see if that works |
| 22:35.00 | Tig| | understand now :) |
| 22:35.09 | king | Tig|, I am downloading Om webkit based browser 29kb on my Neo. It is at 13% after 20 minutes. It is progressing excruciatingly slowly. Is it the usb1,1 bottleneck? |
| 22:35.16 | jonkristian | strange, i don't see anything problematic? |
| 22:35.30 | jonkristian | disregard that questionmark, heh |
| 22:35.40 | king | almien, Digital_Pioneer Why does Om2008.12 repel you people away so strongly? |
| 22:36.12 | Digital_Pioneer | There was no way to get in, so I ditched it. |
| 22:36.13 | almien | king: it went into suspend and wouldn't resume |
| 22:36.26 | king | Digital_Pioneer, 'get in'? |
| 22:36.28 | Digital_Pioneer | Couldn't SSH, and there was no network GUI or terminal emulator. |
| 22:36.32 | jonkristian | Digital_Pioneer: yeah, i needs a reboot before ssh worked, afaik. |
| 22:36.37 | mwester | king: 2008.12 is an evolutionary dead-end. |
| 22:36.47 | seameat | what is this afaik people keep saying? |
| 22:36.48 | Tig| | king, erm it should not be that slow, perhaps it is the server at the other end, the OM servers have been known to be slow before |
| 22:37.09 | jonkristian | seameat: as far as i know |
| 22:37.10 | king | Tig|, SO SO slow? These are pre-dial up speeds man! |
| 22:37.31 | mwester | The servers are in .tw |
| 22:37.38 | king | mwester, So where do the OM employees concentrate on now? Bringing in the FSO and stuff? What SHR is trying to do? |
| 22:37.40 | Tig| | king, something is wrong there but I doubt it is the USB1 link :) |
| 22:37.44 | seameat | jonkristian, oh that makes sense, heh |
| 22:37.59 | king | Tig|, Glad to hear so, I thought everything was going to be THIS slow :-D |
| 22:38.05 | Tig| | nooooooooooo |
| 22:38.08 | jonkristian | Tig|: the router picked up the phone now, but it lists it as inactive, or offline. |
| 22:38.09 | mwester | king: Om focuses on the hardware, the kernel, and they support the FSO project. |
| 22:38.38 | seameat | are any of the freerunner distributions going to be affiliated with Google's Summer of Code in 09? |
| 22:38.44 | Tig| | jonkristian, can you ping it from the router yet? |
| 22:38.46 | king | mwester, But OM does espouse a favourite distro to leverage their hardware right? Which distro would they throw their weight behind now? |
| 22:38.49 | jonkristian | Tig|: picked up, in a sense that it had seen it somewhere along the way, still can't ping, same state. |
| 22:39.14 | Tig| | jonkristian, router reboot time? |
| 22:39.17 | seameat | or too soon to tell |
| 22:39.27 | *** join/#openmoko chomwitt_ (n=chomwitt@adsl46-106.ath.forthnet.gr) |
| 22:39.28 | jonkristian | Tig|: no ping, ill try a reboot then, bbs |
| 22:39.32 | Tig| | ttfn |
| 22:39.34 | henk | jonkristian: wait a sec? |
| 22:39.38 | jonkristian | ok |
| 22:39.48 | henk | jonkristian: what about routers interface config and routing table? |
| 22:39.49 | king | mwester, I am installing Om webkit based browser 29kb since 30 minutes . It has just reached 16%. What could be the issue? |
| 22:40.06 | Tig| | king, kill it and restart the install |
| 22:40.16 | Tig| | something has died there |
| 22:40.22 | king | Tig|, through ssh? killall packagekit? |
| 22:40.34 | king | Tig|, It is steadily moving forward, very very slowly :) |
| 22:40.47 | Tig| | are you installing via assassin or opkg |
| 22:41.06 | king | Tig|, through the Om2008.12 GUI, so that would be assassin, right? |
| 22:41.11 | Tig| | assassin is the gui yes |
| 22:41.29 | Tig| | close that and kill packagekit |
| 22:41.33 | Tig| | then restart it |
| 22:42.13 | king | Tig|,when I said killall packagekit through the SSH it said no process. I closed and open the installer on the Neo then. |
| 22:42.19 | *** join/#openmoko nio_ (n=nio@5571ef58.dsl.concepts.nl) |
| 22:42.19 | GNUtoo | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:42.26 | king | Tig|, Why would packagekit not be killed through the ssh? |
| 22:42.47 | Tig| | did it say no processes killed |
| 22:43.04 | king | Tig|, yes. |
| 22:43.16 | Tig| | if so that is because assassin did it when it closed, there was a bug where it used to stick around |
| 22:43.25 | Tig| | must have been fixed :) |
| 22:43.31 | Tig| | hurrah |
| 22:43.34 | cjb | isn't it packagekitd? |
| 22:43.54 | Tig| | cjb, erm that is a point, it is a daemon |
| 22:43.54 | king | Tig|, I tried to kill it while the gui was still open. |
| 22:44.26 | Tig| | king, I am being an idiot and cjb is right :) serves me right for doing it from memory :) |
| 22:44.30 | king | Tig|, Again the installer is stuck at 9%, now it went to 10. |
| 22:45.01 | Tig| | cjb, are you running 2008.X ? |
| 22:45.09 | king | Tig|, cjb, Yes! it is indeed a daemon. |
| 22:45.24 | cjb | Tig|: nope |
| 22:45.32 | Tig| | damn |
| 22:45.49 | Tig| | not running it here either |
| 22:45.50 | king | Tig|, I killed the daemon from ssh as it was stuck again. But the GUI Still shows assasin's GUI. Shouldn't that quit automatically as well? |
| 22:46.03 | Tig| | close that from the gui |
| 22:46.20 | Tig| | might be worth just checking from ssh that it is dead in the process list |
| 22:46.31 | king | Tig|, The SHR people say they don't consider the distro stable enough to even release the images, so I am staying away from it, given my ineptness with even the stable distros. |
| 22:47.07 | king | Tig|, Its gone. |
| 22:47.24 | Tig| | king, fair enough I am running it because it suits my needs better than any of the other images but I am not using it as my daily phone at the moment |
| 22:47.56 | Tig| | right try restarting that blasted webbrowser install |
| 22:48.38 | *** join/#openmoko jonkrist1an (n=jonkrist@61.84-48-52.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:48.51 | king | Tig|, Could it be that the routing through my laptop is slow? I restarted it again. It is stuck third time now. |
| 22:49.02 | jonkrist1an | wow, router just crashed before i had a chance to do anything |
| 22:49.38 | Tig| | king try downloading the ipk to your laptop |
| 22:49.45 | jonkrist1an | henk: you meant like this? http://lilledyret.com/2008-12-30-234400_1920x1200_scrot.png |
| 22:50.51 | henk | jonkrist1an: no, neither ip config nor routing tables on that screenshot... |
| 22:51.00 | king | Tig|, I don't know how to do that, links, instructions? |
| 22:51.01 | henk | perhaps under 'details'? |
| 22:53.08 | Tig| | king, are you installing midori |
| 22:53.12 | king | Tig|, Even opkg update is taking more than 5 minutes to finish. |
| 22:53.22 | GNUtoo | hello, how do I downgrade a package if -force-downgrade doesn't work...i realy need to downgrade |
| 22:53.32 | king | Tig|, Not installing anything now. First I tried Om browser, then midori. Both get stuck. |
| 22:53.36 | Tig| | king, is it slow to download |
| 22:53.39 | GNUtoo | because otherwise i've to wait until oe finishes to compile |
| 22:54.11 | Tig| | try picking a file at random that it is trying to fetch and on your laptop try fetching it |
| 22:54.59 | jonkrist1an | henk: http://rafb.net/p/OV5yIE32.html |
| 22:55.32 | *** part/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@U4418.u.pppool.de) |
| 22:55.32 | king | Tig|, I would need more specific steps. Don't understand what you are asking me to test. |
| 22:55.44 | jonkrist1an | henk: http://rafb.net/p/aTX1z880.html |
| 22:55.59 | jonkrist1an | henk: that's what i found in telnet, on the speedtouch |
| 22:56.02 | king | Tig|, Let me ditch Om2008.12. Let's SHR :) |
| 22:56.12 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@wikipedia/cesarb) |
| 22:56.17 | Tig| | king, ok you are currently updating via opkg update |
| 22:56.30 | king | Tig|, Yes that update finished. |
| 22:56.43 | Tig| | the first stage is it goes and downloads the file lists |
| 22:56.56 | Tig| | you can see the web addresses on the console |
| 22:56.58 | *** join/#openmoko mluser-work (n=mluser-w@208.178.12.226) |
| 22:57.20 | king | Tig|, You mean the SSH? |
| 22:57.36 | Tig| | copy one of those addresses that is taking a long time to finish and in a terminal on your laptop run : wget http://addressofslowfile |
| 22:57.41 | Tig| | yes on the ssh |
| 22:57.52 | Tig| | and see if it is any faster on your laptop |
| 22:58.46 | king | Tig|, midori is just stuck at downloading stage, I don't even get the %s |
| 22:59.23 | king | Tig|, Look at the latency! http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/ |
| 22:59.34 | king | root@om-gta02:/etc# ping google.com |
| 22:59.35 | king | PING google.com (209.85.171.100): 56 data bytes |
| 22:59.35 | king | 64 bytes from 209.85.171.100: seq=0 ttl=231 time=1216.656 ms |
| 22:59.37 | king | Tig|, ^ |
| 22:59.55 | king | Tig|, Alright I got it at 1% now. |
| 23:00.11 | Tig| | king, shr.bearstech comes straight up here |
| 23:00.12 | king | But the SSH doesn't display the list of files that it is trynig to fetch as you said. |
| 23:00.48 | king | Tig|, I pasted that URL by mistake, please see the ping time for google in the line below. |
| 23:00.53 | Tig| | ah right |
| 23:00.55 | GNUtoo | hello how do I downgrade a package? |
| 23:01.05 | king | Tig|, Still at !% |
| 23:01.07 | GNUtoo | editing the Packages files? |
| 23:01.46 | king | GNUtoo, opkg -force-downgrade <package>? |
| 23:01.46 | Tig| | king, I am not sure what is going on there but something is not right, have you rebooted the phone since you flashed it? |
| 23:01.52 | GNUtoo | king, doesn't work |
| 23:02.29 | king | Tig|, Let me flash SHR onto it. I am sick of Om2008.12 already. Which files do I take from here http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/? |
| 23:02.37 | GNUtoo | king, ah without the install |
| 23:03.07 | king | GNUtoo, :) |
| 23:03.26 | king | Tig|, What is the difference between the glibc images and the simple ones on that page? |
| 23:03.43 | Tig| | king, http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/shr-image-om-gta02.jffs2 and http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-testing/images/neo1973/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin |
| 23:03.56 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=Satan@41.196.62.96) |
| 23:04.13 | GNUtoo | king, ah no doesn't work without or with the install: http://rafb.net/p/3mdPXZ44.html |
| 23:05.01 | king | Tig|, Getting the packages. It is 0400am here now. |
| 23:05.11 | GNUtoo | king, i need my own version of libboost...for wesnoth |
| 23:05.32 | king | GNUtoo, I am one day old here. Sorry. |
| 23:05.55 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst_ (n=Horst@e176124036.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:06.02 | king | Tig|, There is some issue with my wifi I think. Those files are coming in at 2kbps! |
| 23:06.06 | GNUtoo | ok so who knows? |
| 23:06.15 | GNUtoo | king, ok thanks |
| 23:06.58 | Tig| | king, ah so it is not the FR then :) |
| 23:10.52 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176098181.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:12.16 | GNUtoo | even editing /var/lib/opkg/armv4t doesn't work |
| 23:12.21 | GNUtoo | still want to download it |
| 23:12.55 | GNUtoo | and shr build system can't 'unpack tree object d3b1136d29f88fa7bfcbedb6a195724e071cad77' so it fails |
| 23:13.01 | *** join/#openmoko mirko-paroli (n=mirko@c83-251-131-16.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 23:13.04 | GNUtoo | so no way to install wesnoth!!! |
| 23:13.29 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst_ (n=Horst@e176100160.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:13.37 | GNUtoo | and i have't my old oe temp dir anymore |
| 23:15.22 | *** join/#openmoko Dof_ (n=dof_@daupheus.com) |
| 23:16.51 | *** join/#openmoko _DerHorst (n=Horst@e176103076.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:17.44 | mb__ | Is it a know issue that network throughput sucks on ar6k? |
| 23:18.02 | *** part/#openmoko almien (n=chatzill@79-70-62-69.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 23:18.33 | mb__ | I'm wget-ing a file and wget uses up all of the CPU |
| 23:19.00 | mb__ | I wonder whether it's in the wireless driver or in some other part of the kernel. |
| 23:19.28 | lindi- | mb__: is it system or use time? |
| 23:20.03 | mb__ | lindi-: system |
| 23:20.18 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst_ (n=Horst@e176106020.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:20.29 | jd666 | .. mofi ist wohl gerade wech sich für die 2 Mädel-Posten im TV anwerben lassen |
| 23:20.33 | lindi- | mb__: then it's not wget but the driver |
| 23:20.35 | jd666 | ups.. |
| 23:20.51 | mb__ | lindi-: Yeah or the networking stack, but most likely the driver |
| 23:20.56 | *** join/#openmoko Fossi (n=fossi@d194020.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 23:21.07 | mb__ | lindi-: Possibly also sdio and stuff, dunno. |
| 23:21.30 | *** join/#openmoko pb_ (n=pb@79-71-242-68.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 23:22.19 | jonkristian | at least gps is working:) |
| 23:24.20 | *** join/#openmoko linkmauve_ (n=linkmauv@ath91-1-82-234-206-140.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:24.27 | linkmauve_ | Bonsoir tout le monde ! |
| 23:24.41 | Deubeuliou | hi |
| 23:25.31 | linkmauve_ | Sorry, I wanted to say âHiâ. |
| 23:26.30 | igor321 | your entry was far superior to "hi" |
| 23:26.36 | igor321 | no need to feel sorry man |
| 23:26.59 | linkmauve_ | :) |
| 23:27.23 | jonkristian | henk: any more good suggestions what i might try? |
| 23:27.33 | jonkristian | Or Tig| for that matter, heh:) |
| 23:31.32 | GNUtoo | hello is there realy anyone that could help me...i even tried to modify the package manually!!!! and it gave me: An error ocurred, return value: -49936. |
| 23:31.48 | GNUtoo | i realy *want* wesnoth |
| 23:31.51 | GNUtoo | it' |
| 23:31.53 | GNUtoo | oops |
| 23:32.22 | jonkristian | hm, the router says, ethernet interface unknown, maybe because it's eth0 ? |
| 23:32.30 | GNUtoo | i've been fighting for having it hours... |
| 23:32.35 | jonkristian | is that a possibility? |
| 23:32.52 | lindi- | jonkristian: what router? |
| 23:33.03 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.196.62.96) |
| 23:33.24 | Tig| | jonkristian, have you rebooted the router yet? |
| 23:33.36 | jonkristian | it's a thomson speedtouch ST585 |
| 23:33.38 | jonkristian | Tig|: yeah |
| 23:34.07 | jonkristian | Tig|: tried different stuff, reconnecting, rebooting the fra nd the router etc.. |
| 23:34.16 | jonkristian | also tried adding a global dns |
| 23:35.46 | Tig| | jonkristian, right lets think about this logicaly |
| 23:36.04 | Tig| | the only way for the FR to ping the laptop is to go via the router |
| 23:36.13 | Tig| | as it is connecting over wifi |
| 23:36.49 | jonkristian | Tig|: yeah |
| 23:37.31 | Tig| | same for the laptop to the FR |
| 23:38.04 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-237-239.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 23:38.58 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r6643f5fda9da 10/framework/patterns/processguard.py: add generic process guard class |
| 23:38.58 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r3f68994d0804 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 23:38.58 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: First step towards integrating Vala/C subsystems with frameworkd: |
| 23:38.58 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: Support external subsystems. If you add a section with an 'external' attribute, then |
| 23:39.01 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: the section will be treated as an external subsystem to launch with the path given as attribute: |
| 23:39.04 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: [mysubsystem] |
| 23:39.06 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: external=/foo/bar |
| 23:39.08 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: TODO: Add 'relaunch' attribute. |
| 23:39.10 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rf2d61c35f9c2 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): |
| 23:39.10 | jonkristian | yeah, Iv'e tried pinging from inside the router aswell. I can ping the phone fine from my laptop, and same goes for from the fr, but the fr can't ping the router. |
| 23:39.16 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: odeviced: Register objects under /org/freesmartphone/Device/Display/ also |
| 23:39.18 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: with an numerical incremental alias -- e.g. the first display can now |
| 23:39.20 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: also be accessed via /org/freesmartphone/Device/Display/0. |
| 23:39.22 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: rules: Adjust the default backlight brightness rule to use display "0". |
| 23:39.24 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: NOTE: This should be the last missing step to support Openmoko kernel |
| 23:39.28 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: versions 2.6.24 and also >= 2.6.27 for GTA01 and GTA02. |
| 23:39.30 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * ra369198b219c 10/framework/persist.py: persist: Use cPickle instead of Python-based implementation |
| 23:39.33 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r21f62890f42c 10/framework/ (5 files in 3 dirs): move services.py and netlink.py to patterns directory |
| 23:39.36 | CIA-47 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * red797b0a4f3a 10/framework/patterns/kobject.py: kobject: parse a bit more of netlink |
| 23:40.10 | jonkristian | When trying to ping the router from the fr it just hangs though, doesn't time out. hangs on the first line. |
| 23:40.30 | jonkristian | when i try to ping the fr from inside the router it timesout |
| 23:41.24 | Tig| | I still suspect a setting on the router somewhere |
| 23:42.25 | jonkristian | http://rafb.net/p/q7TBFF64.html |
| 23:43.07 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@159.196.98-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 23:43.36 | jonkristian | don't know with wpa-psk version is wpa2, maybe i should've used wpa or wpa+wpa2? |
| 23:44.20 | jonkristian | btw, i also reset the router and the only thing i've changed is to enable upnp and set up wpa. |
| 23:45.00 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=chatzill@79-70-62-69.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 23:45.44 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@87.252.243.156) |
| 23:46.06 | jonkristian | ill reboot and try iwconfig eth0 power off |
| 23:46.15 | *** part/#openmoko almien (n=chatzill@79-70-62-69.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 23:46.42 | jonkristian | Tig|: what channel are set on your ap? |
| 23:49.07 | Tig| | I am on channel 11 and WPA1 |
| 23:49.10 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009044224.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 23:49.32 | jonkristian | ok, ill try that |
| 23:51.56 | GNUtoo | i finally succedded removing libboost-iostream from /var/lib/opkg |
| 23:52.02 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst_ (n=Horst@e176116073.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:55.07 | henk | jonkristian: ping the ips of the 2 other devices from your laptop, phone and router so i get an overview of the problems. NOT the hostnames so we can make sure it's not a dns issue. perhaps there is a packet filter anywhere? |
| 23:56.04 | *** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i577B5F50.versanet.de) |
| 23:57.47 | *** join/#openmoko jonkrist1an (n=jonkrist@61.84-48-52.nextgentel.com) |
| 23:58.03 | Dave | jonkristian :) |
| 23:58.24 | jonkrist1an | Dave: Hi:) |
| 23:58.29 | Dave | :D |
| 23:58.44 | jonkrist1an | How's it going? |
| 23:59.21 | *** join/#openmoko widrone (n=drone@unaffiliated/widrone) |
| 23:59.25 | Tig| | Dave! |
| 23:59.49 | jonkrist1an | Tig|: nah, channel 11 regular wpa personal, still no joy then |
| 23:59.56 | Tig| | arse :( |
