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| 00:43.35 | hozer | hrrrm |
| 00:44.00 | hozer | I just managed to put something in /etc/X11/Xsession.d that prevents E from starting up |
| 00:44.35 | hozer | it's supposed to be in the background.. how can I get in and edit the file on the rootfs? |
| 00:44.59 | hozer | is there a way to edit or move files from uboot? |
| 00:45.06 | slaxxin | nano? |
| 00:45.13 | slaxxin | oo |
| 00:45.23 | hozer | I can't get vala-terminal |
| 00:45.34 | hozer | I need the equivalent of 'init=/bin/sh' |
| 00:45.41 | hozer | but that doesn't work so well on a device with no keyboard |
| 00:45.56 | lindi- | just attach a keyboard |
| 00:46.07 | hozer | is usb-hid built in? |
| 00:46.14 | lindi- | i don't know what kernel you run |
| 00:46.23 | hozer | shr |
| 00:46.27 | hozer | shr-testing |
| 00:46.33 | lindi- | and with what config |
| 00:46.43 | hozer | heh |
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| 01:48.22 | slaxxer | over here |
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| 02:17.43 | slaxxin | iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -j MASQUERADE -s 192.168.0.0/24 |
| 02:18.16 | slaxxin | sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 |
| 02:18.30 | slaxxin | ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 |
| 02:18.51 | mwester-laptop | bash: iptables: command not found |
| 02:19.17 | mwester-laptop | bash: sysctl: command not found |
| 02:19.36 | mwester-laptop | bash: ifconfig: wrong window selected |
| 02:19.41 | slaxxin | lol |
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| 02:22.55 | Digital_Pioneer | Ahhh, finally got back my internet... :) |
| 02:26.32 | Digital_Pioneer | OK, so it would appear Mofi does not work if your network has no DHCP... :\ |
| 02:32.40 | ColdFyre | been slow in the world of new releases coming out.. |
| 02:32.41 | slaxxin | i dont know if mofi works if u do have dhcp |
| 02:33.27 | Digital_Pioneer | I don't have DHCP, and mofi doesn't work. :) |
| 02:38.12 | Dave | huh? |
| 02:38.28 | Dave | what's wrong with iwconfig? |
| 02:39.19 | Digital_Pioneer | That's what I use, but the keyboard in there isn't exactly massive. ;) |
| 02:39.36 | slaxxin | we need mofi |
| 02:39.43 | Dave | NO WE DON'T |
| 02:40.06 | slaxxin | what do we need then dave/ |
| 02:40.19 | Dave | More flux capacitors? |
| 02:40.22 | Digital_Pioneer | I don't need no mofi, I just prefer a GUI when I'm tangling with WPA. |
| 02:40.27 | slaxxin | auto wifi |
| 02:40.43 | Dave | autowifi beam out! |
| 02:41.04 | *** join/#openmoko PloenK (n=tscholz@gw-ka-01-ext.vpn.ploenk.net) |
| 02:41.22 | slaxxin | a flux capacitor would work |
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| 02:43.01 | Dave | :] |
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| 02:54.49 | Digital_Pioneer | OK, so the settings program in SHR doesn't work. I click them, and I get a green flash, and that's it. Is this not yet implemented or something? |
| 02:54.56 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal_ (n=azaghal@91.148.112.202) |
| 02:55.03 | slaxxin | mee to |
| 02:55.14 | slaxxin | others dont happen to |
| 02:55.33 | Digital_Pioneer | Hmmm. |
| 02:55.48 | Digital_Pioneer | How about the GPS? How do I use it? |
| 02:55.52 | Dave | :p |
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| 02:57.18 | slaxxin | it does work in shr |
| 02:57.28 | Digital_Pioneer | Of coooourse it doesn't. |
| 02:57.37 | Digital_Pioneer | Why not, dare I ask? |
| 02:57.40 | slaxxin | sure it does |
| 02:57.53 | Digital_Pioneer | Oh, my bad, I misread. |
| 02:57.59 | Digital_Pioneer | Thought you said it didn't work. |
| 02:58.12 | slaxxin | although it took almost 30 minuits yesterday |
| 02:58.28 | Digital_Pioneer | So how do I use it? TangoGPS doesn't have any idea where I'm at. |
| 02:58.34 | slaxxin | dave said that |
| 02:59.03 | nkinkade | Digital_Pioneer: Does tangoGPS even see any satellites? |
| 02:59.42 | Digital_Pioneer | nkinkade: No clue. |
| 03:01.05 | nkinkade | Digital_Pioneer: Click on the trip tab. The bottom part tells you. |
| 03:01.23 | Digital_Pioneer | nkinkade: Nope.' |
| 03:02.14 | nkinkade | It didn't work for me for a while either. Then about 2 days ago i set the clock and it suddenly started working right at that moment. |
| 03:02.41 | Digital_Pioneer | Is there any kind of command line query I can run on the GPS? |
| 03:03.06 | nkinkade | Theres some framework stuff you can check with cli-framework, but it didn't do me any good. |
| 03:03.18 | nkinkade | Partly because I didn't know how to use it. |
| 03:04.18 | Digital_Pioneer | What does cli-framework do? I can't get any real response from it. When I ctrl-c it says some python stuff, but that's no use... |
| 03:13.07 | Dave | I said what? |
| 03:14.56 | nkinkade | Digital_Pioneer: You exit it with ctrl-d. |
| 03:15.21 | nkinkade | http://totalueberwachung.de/blog/2008/10/14/fso-tutorial-part-1-gps |
| 03:15.48 | nkinkade | None of that was helpful for resolving my GPS issue, but it was interesting. |
| 03:18.17 | *** join/#openmoko vininim (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim) |
| 03:19.59 | *** part/#openmoko nkinkade (n=nkinkade@72-28-215-022-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net) |
| 03:23.49 | Digital_Pioneer | So does anyone know how to make the GPS work in SHR? I can't get any satellites. |
| 03:24.17 | slaxxin | the latest shr? |
| 03:28.00 | Digital_Pioneer | Yes. |
| 03:28.04 | Digital_Pioneer | Just flashed it today. |
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| 03:40.15 | Digital_Pioneer | Can I safely add the 2008.8 package repos in SHR? |
| 03:40.21 | Digital_Pioneer | The SHR ones seem... Weak. |
| 03:43.23 | orzo | why not add signatures to the packages? |
| 03:48.16 | mwester-laptop | orzo: or better still, why not put the non-pgp-signed opkg on the images instead? |
| 03:48.36 | orzo | heh |
| 03:49.18 | orzo | why's that better |
| 03:51.31 | *** join/#openmoko Digital-Pioneer (n=digitalp@h65.198.255.206.cable.srcy.cablelynx.com) |
| 03:52.00 | sicu | Digital_Pioneer: my gps works fine outside as long as i leave the FR outside with a clear view to the sky |
| 03:52.20 | sicu | it always takes longer on first fix, so leave it for about 30mins and see what you get |
| 03:54.24 | Digital-Pioneer | sicu: OK, there is no clear sky right now, and I don't want to leave a $400 piece of hardware in the freezing rain... ;) So what do I have it do for 30 mins? What should I have running, enabled, etc? |
| 04:01.02 | *** join/#openmoko mgregson (n=mgregson@76-10-128-253.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 04:07.46 | Digital-Pioneer | The Freerunner doesn't have a vibrator in it does it? |
| 04:10.47 | Digital-Pioneer | Ooh, it does. Didn't even know! |
| 04:12.02 | orzo | pervert |
| 04:12.25 | *** join/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@mobile-166-214-197-152.mycingular.net) |
| 04:12.41 | Digital-Pioneer | Very funny. |
| 04:12.49 | rooly | i know |
| 04:14.05 | orzo | how do i tell midori a url? |
| 04:14.30 | Digital-Pioneer | That's a very good question. Heheh |
| 04:14.45 | orzo | i guess i could google it |
| 04:14.46 | orzo | heh |
| 04:14.54 | rooly | lol |
| 04:15.13 | rooly | try file->open |
| 04:16.20 | Digital-Pioneer | The viber isn't very powerful... But it exists. |
| 04:16.51 | rooly | just attach a large rubber prosthesis to the phone, it should work just fine |
| 04:17.08 | rooly | preferably cylindrically shaped |
| 04:19.07 | orzo | file->open doesnt do the trick for me |
| 04:19.56 | rooly | poke around |
| 04:20.00 | rooly | its in there somewhere |
| 04:21.20 | Digital-Pioneer | orzo: Who's the pervert now? |
| 04:21.44 | rooly | you are, digi |
| 04:21.46 | rooly | stil |
| 04:21.55 | Digital-Pioneer | Aye, you are. |
| 04:23.14 | orzo | two perverts in love |
| 04:23.58 | orzo | i put midori in full screen mode |
| 04:24.07 | orzo | now how do i get my top shelf back? |
| 04:24.08 | orzo | heh |
| 04:27.25 | *** join/#openmoko fuzzbox (n=fuzzbox@99.154.245.196) |
| 04:29.22 | rooly | take midori out of full screen mode] |
| 04:31.07 | orzo | yes |
| 04:31.08 | orzo | how? |
| 04:31.26 | rooly | i dunno |
| 04:31.27 | orzo | i selected fullscreen from teh view menu |
| 04:31.32 | rooly | try crashing your browser |
| 04:31.46 | rooly | try this |
| 04:31.55 | rooly | select a text entry box |
| 04:31.58 | orzo | i killed it |
| 04:32.36 | rooly | well, i was gonna say, pull out an input box and when the keyboard comes up, hit ctrl+w |
| 04:33.09 | orzo | i always have to select qwerty from the top shelf to get a keyboard |
| 04:33.36 | rooly | ic |
| 04:33.42 | orzo | is that not expected? |
| 04:33.45 | rooly | hmm....your kinda shit-outta-luck then, eh? |
| 04:34.04 | orzo | is qwerty suppoesd to pop up on its own? |
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| 04:47.22 | sicu | orzo: not in SHR |
| 04:48.40 | sicu | orzo: if you have latest SHR, a quick click on pwrbtn will give you a system menu that lets you choose (suspend, lock, shutdown, close, home) |
| 04:48.56 | orzo | heh |
| 04:49.19 | *** join/#openmoko polymar_ (n=polymar@vpn.yellowpages.com) |
| 04:49.23 | orzo | anybody use dillo? |
| 04:49.57 | rooly | i have |
| 04:50.02 | rooly | 's quite nice |
| 04:51.04 | orzo | heh |
| 04:51.22 | *** join/#openmoko DrRabbit_ (n=tuna@ip68-99-219-29.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 04:51.23 | orzo | i wrote a patch for it many years ago to make it wrap text around photos properly |
| 04:51.27 | rooly | the whole 'it loads up in less than a second' |
| 04:52.00 | orzo | they rejected my patch because i didnt do it the way the guy who wrote the layout component envisioned |
| 04:52.01 | rooly | as compared to any of the webkit browsers |
| 04:52.18 | rooly | thats foss, orzo |
| 04:52.31 | Digital-Pioneer | orzo: SSH in and kill midori |
| 04:52.49 | rooly | while your at it, opkg remove midori |
| 04:52.50 | orzo | well dillo still do what i implemented |
| 04:52.55 | orzo | er |
| 04:52.58 | orzo | still cant do |
| 04:53.22 | orzo | i fail to see why his way is better, but he's german and i sense a bit of a communication barrier |
| 04:53.24 | rooly | thats foss for ya, orzo |
| 04:53.39 | rooly | also...he's german |
| 04:54.03 | rooly | americans tend to like singletons, europeans seem to like correct programming practices |
| 04:54.11 | orzo | heh |
| 04:54.24 | orzo | "correct" |
| 04:54.24 | *** join/#openmoko d-b_ (n=alias@unaffiliated/d-b) |
| 04:54.55 | orzo | see |
| 04:55.42 | rooly | comes right after b |
| 04:55.43 | orzo | i was just interpretting objects differently than he was |
| 04:56.11 | orzo | i think my disign was closer to what you'd want based on what we need the program to do |
| 04:56.16 | rooly | oh, no, that was no insinuation towards your ability |
| 04:56.21 | orzo | and his design was based closer on reading the CSS spec |
| 04:57.13 | orzo | he wanted to match software classes with CSS spec concepts |
| 04:57.23 | orzo | which i dont see any point to |
| 04:58.02 | orzo | anyway, they regret rejecting my patch |
| 04:58.05 | orzo | heh |
| 04:58.14 | rooly | do they? |
| 04:58.18 | rooly | really? |
| 04:58.23 | orzo | well they say so to the list |
| 04:58.38 | orzo | but thats the project lead |
| 04:58.44 | rooly | shit happens |
| 04:58.53 | orzo | not the guy who is in charge of the layout component |
| 04:59.34 | rooly | i'm on fsking dialup here |
| 04:59.49 | rooly | running a 3g aircard here |
| 05:00.01 | rooly | and getting 14kbps |
| 05:00.19 | orzo | sucks |
| 05:00.24 | orzo | shit happens |
| 05:00.50 | rooly | i try to tell people, "3g is still dialup" |
| 05:00.52 | rooly | but nooooo |
| 05:00.55 | rooly | nobody listens |
| 05:01.12 | orzo | i'm not really familiar |
| 05:01.20 | orzo | 3g is the cellular network, right? |
| 05:01.39 | orzo | it's not broadband? |
| 05:01.40 | rooly | its the cellular data network speed rating |
| 05:01.58 | orzo | and its that slow? |
| 05:02.06 | rooly | yup |
| 05:02.13 | orzo | i was considering cellular inernet |
| 05:02.23 | rooly | 30$'s a month in the US |
| 05:02.32 | rooly | should use free dialup instead |
| 05:02.36 | rooly | you'd be better off |
| 05:03.06 | orzo | i didnt know i could get it for as low as 30 |
| 05:03.29 | rooly | thats how much it'll cost me to add it to my cell phone plna |
| 05:03.31 | rooly | *plan |
| 05:04.13 | rooly | its probably a good deal more expensive on its own |
| 05:04.28 | orzo | okay |
| 05:04.49 | orzo | is there a faster cellular internet? |
| 05:05.46 | madwoota | 4G! |
| 05:06.17 | rooly | yeah, it'll run at 20-25 |
| 05:06.52 | orzo | is it compatible with the openmokos? |
| 05:07.01 | rooly | phttt |
| 05:07.02 | rooly | hahahahaha |
| 05:07.20 | rooly | 4g isn't here yet, orzo |
| 05:07.44 | Digital-Pioneer | OK, where do you get /usr/lib/libpulse.so.0? I'm trying to install a program that wants it... |
| 05:08.11 | rooly | pulseaudio or pulse-audio maybe> |
| 05:08.20 | rooly | opkg list | grep pulse |
| 05:08.49 | orzo | is the cellular voice signal digital underneath? |
| 05:09.07 | Digital-Pioneer | Ahhh. |
| 05:09.11 | orzo | can we program our neos to send raw data in teh voice signal? |
| 05:09.20 | rooly | nope |
| 05:09.26 | rooly | tried that meself |
| 05:09.36 | rooly | aka no faxes |
| 05:09.54 | orzo | why not? |
| 05:10.01 | rooly | has to do with codecs |
| 05:10.10 | orzo | oh |
| 05:10.13 | orzo | so it is digital |
| 05:10.17 | rooly | no |
| 05:10.20 | orzo | but we have to follow some rules |
| 05:10.23 | orzo | based on codecs |
| 05:10.30 | rooly | its analog on your end |
| 05:10.43 | orzo | well my end is a neo and your end is a neo |
| 05:11.08 | rooly | the network passes the audio signal thru codecs that remove non-voice sounds |
| 05:12.27 | *** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.167.82.75) |
| 05:14.37 | orzo | so what you tried was taking raw data and turning into an audio fax signal or something |
| 05:15.07 | rooly | i tried doing gsm dialup |
| 05:15.13 | rooly | which is the same thing |
| 05:15.16 | rooly | no-go |
| 05:15.35 | orzo | do we have access to the actual signal that is being transmitted from our phone |
| 05:15.58 | orzo | not the audio |
| 05:16.12 | orzo | but the underlying cellular packets or whatever |
| 05:16.22 | rooly | doesn't matter |
| 05:16.29 | rooly | the phone hardware doesn't do the filtering |
| 05:16.33 | rooly | its the network |
| 05:16.42 | rooly | some networks it would very well work on |
| 05:16.45 | rooly | others it won't |
| 05:16.49 | orzo | well im curious about the answer anyway |
| 05:17.11 | rooly | it wouldn't be particularly hard to catch them |
| 05:17.18 | Digital-Pioneer | Anyone here tried the eightball app? Useless little fun thing. :P |
| 05:17.23 | Digital-Pioneer | But it won't work on mine. |
| 05:17.26 | rooly | agreed, digi |
| 05:17.29 | rooly | aww |
| 05:17.31 | rooly | i'm sowwy |
| 05:17.38 | rooly | why not? |
| 05:18.14 | Digital-Pioneer | I shake it, nothing happens. |
| 05:18.30 | rooly | touch the screen |
| 05:18.37 | *** join/#openmoko ChandleWEi1 (n=chandle@210.13.121.62) |
| 05:18.51 | Digital-Pioneer | Yeah, I know, but what fun is that?! |
| 05:19.33 | orzo | my phone doesnt have an accelerometer |
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| 05:19.45 | Digital-Pioneer | orzo: ? |
| 05:19.48 | *** part/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) |
| 05:19.48 | Digital-Pioneer | No Freerunner? |
| 05:19.55 | orzo | it's neo1973 |
| 05:20.02 | Digital-Pioneer | Awww. |
| 05:20.35 | ColdFyre | i just got a gta03 |
| 05:20.47 | orzo | i didnt know those were available |
| 05:20.55 | ColdFyre | they aren't |
| 05:20.59 | AntonTakk | woo, had my fr on all day (granted suspended most of it) and only the first of the four indicator bars went out :) |
| 05:21.04 | ColdFyre | i built a time machine using my gta02 |
| 05:21.31 | AntonTakk | roughly 16 hours :) |
| 05:21.43 | AntonTakk | er |
| 05:21.50 | AntonTakk | battery charge indicator bars |
| 05:22.01 | rooly | AntonTakk: i've gotten mine to run for over 2 days without dieing or charging before |
| 05:22.22 | AntonTakk | nice |
| 05:22.31 | rooly | but thats kinda hard, since you have to reboot at least once a day usually |
| 05:23.25 | AntonTakk | i only had to reboot it after playing with fourier, didn't setup sound properly for a test call afterwards |
| 05:23.40 | AntonTakk | but it received the call just fine |
| 05:24.00 | AntonTakk | and the volume adjuster works, a bit hard to use thou |
| 05:24.23 | AntonTakk | if only it would receive mms and read my sim contacts :) |
| 05:25.29 | orzo | uh |
| 05:25.34 | orzo | opkg is upgrading my kernel |
| 05:25.48 | AntonTakk | welp, just wanted to report the good battery life experience |
| 05:26.04 | AntonTakk | night all |
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| 06:42.02 | CIA-67 | openmoko: 03charlie * r4872 10/developers/charlie/Tests/Python/import/ (. module1.py module2.py test.py): Add python import tests scripts |
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| 06:46.30 | mwester | reads the mailing list archives for the past week, and notes that the natives grow increasingly more restless. |
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| 06:54.57 | gecco | good morning |
| 06:55.03 | cdm | g'da |
| 06:55.05 | cdm | day |
| 06:59.42 | CIA-67 | openmoko: 03charlie * r4873 10/developers/charlie/Tests/paroli_report.txt: Add paroli_report.text |
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| 07:31.05 | d-b | hi there is any one on qtopia 4.4.1 i think it is -> where is the gtalk app |
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| 07:32.23 | slaxxin | is that not on shr? |
| 07:32.29 | *** join/#openmoko ayeuu (n=ayeuu@80.125.173.56) |
| 07:32.52 | d-b | i don't know. i'm not using shr |
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| 07:38.22 | slaxxin | i think its 4.4.2 with gtalk |
| 07:38.39 | slaxxin | anyways i used it yesterday |
| 07:38.50 | d-b | gtalk ? |
| 07:38.52 | d-b | or 4.4.2 |
| 07:39.16 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
| 07:40.05 | rob_w | hi there .. i would be selling my 2 openmoko`s .. for low budget ! |
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| 07:41.06 | slaxxin | http://other.lastnetwork.net/OpenMoko/ |
| 07:41.26 | d-b | nice ? |
| 07:41.40 | slaxxin | is that not it? |
| 07:41.45 | d-b | what is this tho + why dl from there and not qt site ? |
| 07:42.54 | slaxxin | well if they were at the qt site u wouldnt be looking for them |
| 07:43.02 | slaxxin | :) |
| 07:43.06 | d-b | what? |
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| 07:57.46 | d-b | slaxxin: are you going to answer that... |
| 07:58.01 | d-b | so in qt extended they don't have voip / gtalk compiled atm ? |
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| 08:04.48 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:04.59 | sleipnir | morning |
| 08:05.12 | henk | moin |
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| 08:09.32 | d-b | slaxxin: ok fair enough _> saw mailing list --> is it good ? |
| 08:09.57 | henk | that's a sad story... |
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| 08:54.36 | d-b | btw what is the official reason for not including a terminal in any of the om2008 releases ? |
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| 09:09.16 | henk | d-b: there is openmoko-terminal in the repository isn't there? |
| 09:12.19 | Sargun | Man, OM is cool |
| 09:13.20 | feitingen | :D |
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| 09:13.34 | der-lehmann | tell us why |
| 09:13.50 | Sargun | der-lehmann, because I can SSH into it |
| 09:13.53 | Sargun | I can make it buzz |
| 09:14.14 | Sargun | I can use it as both a tool to monitor global uptime, as a neat sex toy for my girlfriend, and it looks funny. |
| 09:14.23 | Sargun | and the screen is beautiful. |
| 09:14.29 | Sargun | I use a Treo, I like things that look funny |
| 09:14.42 | Sargun | ;-P |
| 09:16.18 | der-lehmann | buzzing is cool? |
| 09:16.30 | Sargun | der-lehmann, very. |
| 09:16.40 | Sargun | I wrote an application which synced the buzzing with music |
| 09:17.12 | henk | buzzing? you mean the vibrations, right? |
| 09:17.16 | Sargun | yes. |
| 09:17.21 | gurugentoo | I'm not sure I'd want to use it as a sex toy... |
| 09:17.23 | henk | not the 'buzzing' as in 'buzz issue' |
| 09:17.24 | *** join/#openmoko soman (n=somnath@61.16.248.242) |
| 09:17.26 | der-lehmann | now i understand |
| 09:17.30 | Sargun | gurugentoo, Why not? |
| 09:17.37 | Sargun | Oh, also, I can install Gentoo on it. |
| 09:17.41 | Sargun | I can throw gentoo at someone |
| 09:17.44 | Sargun | while it is running |
| 09:17.47 | Sargun | That's pretty neat. |
| 09:18.16 | gurugentoo | don't want to get it...ahem messy |
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| 09:20.23 | gurugentoo | though that could be avoided.. |
| 09:20.57 | Sargun | gurugentoo, Sammich baggy. |
| 09:22.17 | gurugentoo | Sargun: wireless control could be entertaining |
| 09:23.06 | gurugentoo | it's a whole new marketing angle hehe |
| 09:23.08 | Sargun | gurugentoo, It is. |
| 09:23.14 | Sargun | I tried it with my girlfriend. |
| 09:23.51 | gurugentoo | fun |
| 09:24.25 | henk | how do you control the vibrating? |
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| 09:26.10 | Sargun | henk, Wifi |
| 09:26.46 | henk | nvm, i meant on the F |
| 09:26.51 | henk | FR, but i found it |
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| 09:30.03 | Sargun | oh |
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| 09:35.13 | CIA-67 | openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4874 10/developers/erin_yueh/bt/ (6 files): add GPL2 license, still testing version 0.1 |
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| 10:58.37 | d-b | wait so who in here uses their phone as a phone ? (openmoko freerunner) -> what battery life do you get on om2008.9 |
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| 11:12.10 | lindi- | d-b: isn't that entirely up to the kernel? |
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| 11:22.10 | d-b | lindi-: well yes. i guess -> re suspend and foo . but what do people get |
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| 11:22.32 | d-b | do people feel it is reliable enough to be used as a phone for day without charging it |
| 11:23.16 | lindi- | d-b: reliability of phonecalls is also up to the userland |
| 11:23.38 | d-b | lindi-: right. |
| 11:24.20 | d-b | but overall does anyone feel it (any distro) reliable enough to be used for a phone day as a phone /making calls /smsing without charging it |
| 11:24.27 | lindi- | d-b: i have not managed to compile om2008.9 |
| 11:24.49 | d-b | lindi-: ... there is an image... i believe -> i haven't tried too... |
| 11:25.37 | d-b | lindi-: mmm i might get a smaller debian on the 512mb sdcard and see how long that lasts. -> my big 8gb sdcard just keeps wiping |
| 11:25.41 | d-b | (itself) |
| 11:25.44 | lindi- | d-b: i don't do images, sorry :) |
| 11:25.54 | d-b | ah fair enough . |
| 11:26.06 | lindi- | if something does not compile i can't hack on it |
| 11:27.03 | d-b | lindi-: ok. lindi- do you use your phone as a phone atm / have |
| 11:27.14 | lindi- | d-b: yeah |
| 11:28.11 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@dyn1205-203.wlan.ic.ac.uk) |
| 11:28.34 | d-b | lindi-: and how long does it last for / do you consider it reliable |
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| 11:28.46 | lindi- | d-b: i never let it discharge fully |
| 11:29.05 | lindi- | d-b: it's around three percentage units per hour |
| 11:29.33 | lindi- | i don't have time to leave the phone in suspend for a day to test this, i need to place calls in between :) |
| 11:29.41 | d-b | lindi-: fair enough. |
| 11:29.46 | d-b | so you say 3% an hour ? |
| 11:29.57 | d-b | is this on debian .. or shr .. |
| 11:29.59 | lindi- | 3 percentage units yes |
| 11:30.03 | lindi- | not percentages of course |
| 11:30.09 | lindi- | since then it would never get empty :) |
| 11:30.20 | lindi- | d-b: debian yes |
| 11:30.25 | lindi- | d-b: with stable-tracking 80f4 kernel |
| 11:30.34 | d-b | ah ? so 100% --> after one hour 97% ? |
| 11:30.40 | lindi- | yeah |
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| 11:30.47 | d-b | with fso open ? |
| 11:30.51 | d-b | suspened... |
| 11:30.58 | lindi- | and registered to gsm network yes |
| 11:31.13 | d-b | and do you know how much a phone call reduces the battery life ? |
| 11:31.39 | d-b | lindi-: so where can i get a copy of the kernel / did you compile it |
| 11:32.00 | lindi- | d-b: a lot |
| 11:32.11 | d-b | >10% ? |
| 11:32.26 | d-b | this seems fairly reasonable. |
| 11:32.27 | lindi- | it's around 6 hours if the phone is just sitting idle and not suspended |
| 11:32.46 | lindi- | so i'd say 4 hours of talk time or so to be conservative |
| 11:33.08 | d-b | lindi-: mmm i seem to have a very large echo on debian using fso tho. |
| 11:33.21 | lindi- | d-b: git.openmoko.org is the way to help with kernel stuff |
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| 12:10.06 | mjr | so does testing ever shut down the screen if you don't let it suspend (which usually crashes the second time)? that's nice |
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| 12:40.31 | gecco | openvibe is out http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenVibe |
| 12:41.09 | henk | lol |
| 12:42.05 | gecco | i search betatester |
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| 12:42.32 | henk | just a sec ;) |
| 12:42.45 | d-b | ..... rofl |
| 12:42.51 | viq | :D |
| 12:43.16 | gecco | :) |
| 12:43.18 | zedstar | is waiting for the user submitted pics using it |
| 12:43.24 | gecco | ahhaah |
| 12:43.25 | mudyc | gecco: don't you have a girlfriend of your own?-) |
| 12:43.43 | gecco | yes... i have... but she don't wont to use it :) |
| 12:43.47 | d-b | um you know there are usb things. rofl |
| 12:44.00 | henk | i'll ask my GF if she wants to test it in a few hours ;) |
| 12:44.14 | gecco | henk: take picture :) |
| 12:44.35 | gecco | now i'm going to take lunch... see you |
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| 12:44.42 | henk | i guess not 'g' |
| 12:44.51 | henk | but who knows... |
| 12:45.21 | zedstar | c'mon it's christmas ;) |
| 12:45.29 | univac | gg g ggg ggggg ooogle |
| 12:46.14 | henk | hm, doesn't vibe at all :-/ |
| 12:53.02 | henk | hrhr works now... wrong path. |
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| 13:07.43 | CVirus | OpenVibe is the first open source vibration. With this software you can control the vibration of the FreeRunner for give pleasure to your girlfriend. |
| 13:07.44 | CVirus | ROFL |
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| 13:16.34 | CIA-67 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r001f5426d595 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/audio.py: odeviced: audio: try harder to escape spaces in filenames |
| 13:16.34 | CIA-67 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r41216b7057ec 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/fso_actions.py: oeventsd: spawn processes asynchronous in CommandAction. Closes FSO #235 |
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| 13:25.34 | alphaone | raster: ping |
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| 13:28.49 | CIA-67 | openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openmoko.stable * rcd512fd1e1ae 10/conf/distro/openmoko.conf: openmoko.conf: change feed to Om2008.8. |
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| 14:16.22 | der-lehmann | anyone using scummvm in shr? |
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| 14:25.25 | mjr | ok so what to do when a FR unit seems to come out of suspend relatively intact, except usually on the second time it'll blank the display (usually blinking down after first working for just a moment after the restore)? |
| 14:26.20 | Tig| | I had that on shr, basically you have to unsuspend then tap the screen to bring it back |
| 14:26.56 | mjr | how about when trying that did not elude one's imagination |
| 14:27.17 | mjr | and when another unit with the same software seems to function better in this regard |
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| 15:08.14 | b0ef | ehlo |
| 15:08.17 | b0ef | was there an SOP for the gsm buzz posted somewhere? |
| 15:10.21 | b0ef | ah, got it |
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| 15:45.41 | CIA-67 | freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r81dc88aa7842 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ericsson_F3507g/ (__init__.py channel.py mediator.py modem.py unsolicited.py): Merge commit 'origin/stefan-F3507g' |
| 15:45.42 | CIA-67 | freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r9e4966d35572 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ (3 files in 2 dirs): |
| 15:45.42 | CIA-67 | freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: First working ericsson F3507g modem driver |
| 15:45.42 | CIA-67 | freesmartphone.org: SIM access is working, PDP fails at the moment because the connect |
| 15:45.44 | CIA-67 | freesmartphone.org: script sends an ATZ which the F3507g responds to with ERROR. |
| 15:45.46 | CIA-67 | freesmartphone.org: It seems that changing CSCS has an effect on *all* strings, even CSCS |
| 15:45.48 | CIA-67 | freesmartphone.org: itself and COPS. This will need to be worked around later. |
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| 16:17.03 | slaxxin | shr news |
| 16:20.17 | Tig| | there is shr news? |
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| 16:28.25 | sicu | Tig|: @ om planet |
| 16:29.14 | Tig| | aha ta |
| 16:31.41 | Tig| | wooo good news :) |
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| 16:36.56 | Dave | :) |
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| 17:02.44 | jonkristian | dangit, shr refuses ssh:/ |
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| 17:04.11 | nkinkade | jonkristian: I think this was (is?) a known issue in some cases ... I believe you can just open a terminal on the Neo and ifup usb0 or ifconfig usb0 up, or something like that. |
| 17:04.56 | Tig| | iirc mofi had a bug in it that took usb0 down when it starts and does not put it back when finished |
| 17:05.18 | jonkristian | ah yes, but it's been working quite well until last night |
| 17:05.19 | nkinkade | Yes I saw that one too, and in those cases a simple "ifconfig usb0 up" fixed it for me. |
| 17:05.37 | jonkristian | probably some conflicts there, but im re-flashing testing first:) |
| 17:05.47 | jonkristian | yuppyupp |
| 17:05.58 | jonkristian | btw, happy xmas everybody |
| 17:06.07 | Tm_T | happy tuesday |
| 17:06.12 | jonkristian | Tm_T: that too |
| 17:07.22 | jc | you need to start dropbear and make sure it listens on the interface you're connecting to |
| 17:08.20 | jc | netstat -tean should tell you somethings listening on port 22 |
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| 17:21.44 | vallor | jazus |
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| 17:56.00 | Sargun | Hello all. |
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| 18:04.26 | bhuvi | did anybody know the cost of openmoko mobile in india |
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| 18:12.15 | bhuvi | did anybody know the cost of openmoko mobile in india |
| 18:12.36 | SpeedEvil | bhuvi: I don't think anyone does |
| 18:12.41 | SpeedEvil | I'd have a look on the wiki |
| 18:12.48 | SpeedEvil | Or ratehr - nobody on right now knows |
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| 18:13.49 | l403 | does anyonoe have some newer EZX openmoko rootfs images? |
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| 19:02.52 | LostInSpace | hey guys |
| 19:03.04 | LostInSpace | any of you have a quick link to download s3c24xx-gpio_1.0 source code? |
| 19:03.31 | Zorkman | maybe ask the question in #openmoko-cdevel ? |
| 19:05.39 | *** join/#openmoko mujo (n=mathieu@74.94.204.102) |
| 19:06.32 | LostInSpace | thanks |
| 19:07.41 | mujo | hi, I just got my neo freerunner(woohoo!), I got a sim from at&t and its not in the wiki's supported list. Should I update the firmware as specified here:http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing or go kick and scream at the at&t store to get an older sim? |
| 19:07.59 | Zorkman | mujo; did you test it first? |
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| 19:08.34 | mujo | yes, it says registering |
| 19:08.54 | mujo | I try to wiggle it in different position(physically) as well with no result |
| 19:09.20 | mujo | the SKU is 71247 |
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| 19:09.50 | slaxxin | is it a 71234G? |
| 19:10.04 | slaxxin | o |
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| 19:12.18 | slaxxin | iare the contacts all over to one side an not centered up? |
| 19:12.40 | slaxxin | or close to center? |
| 19:13.29 | mujo | no |
| 19:13.36 | mujo | there are 8 contacts |
| 19:13.47 | mujo | they seem to fit the device's contacts |
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| 19:16.27 | mujo | the 8 device's pins even show up on the sim card |
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| 19:22.12 | LostInSpace | any of you guys have an openembedded openmoko package installed that they can check s3c24xx-gpio bitbake file so I can get the URL to the source of s3c24xx-gpio? |
| 19:23.08 | jc | s3c24xx-gpio? why not have look at the git ? |
| 19:23.33 | LostInSpace | checked quickly didn't see it |
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| 19:23.52 | jc | s3c24xx-gpi site:git.openmoko.org revea;s" |
| 19:23.54 | LostInSpace | i just want to compile that code (little app to poke/peek s3c24xx gpios) |
| 19:23.57 | jc | http://git.openmoko.org/git/openmoko.git/packages/images/fso-image.bb |
| 19:24.11 | jc | guess that's not it |
| 19:24.34 | LostInSpace | no that's not it =) |
| 19:24.43 | LostInSpace | but thanks for trying heheh |
| 19:25.25 | jc | http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?pkgname=s3c24xx-gpio-dev |
| 19:25.28 | jc | says its on svn |
| 19:25.48 | jc | http://svn.openmoko.org/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/dump-gpio.patch |
| 19:25.51 | jc | and here we have it |
| 19:26.03 | jc | aah nah thats the kernel part |
| 19:26.53 | LostInSpace | hehe |
| 19:26.57 | LostInSpace | i just want to see this app |
| 19:27.09 | LostInSpace | i'm using devmem2 right now to try and debug gpios |
| 19:27.19 | LostInSpace | but someone suggested s3c24xx-gpio |
| 19:27.26 | jc | why do that ? |
| 19:27.45 | jc | you trying to flash leds in extreme style? ;) |
| 19:28.00 | LostInSpace | no |
| 19:28.07 | LostInSpace | I have this old gps |
| 19:28.12 | LostInSpace | that runs linux |
| 19:28.20 | LostInSpace | stupid company never released their kernel source |
| 19:28.30 | LostInSpace | i'm trying to pressure them with gpl-violations lol |
| 19:28.39 | LostInSpace | anyways I wanna use this useless gps as a nice little gadget |
| 19:28.42 | LostInSpace | kinda like my Z |
| 19:28.47 | jc | I know that feeling, might try the same with mikrotik :P |
| 19:28.49 | LostInSpace | but anyting USB fails right now |
| 19:29.04 | LostInSpace | but I still have the old kernel (flash partition) backup |
| 19:29.04 | *** join/#openmoko tifereth (n=tuxi@p4FD653E8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:29.08 | LostInSpace | and I can still boot the old kernel |
| 19:29.18 | LostInSpace | I'm trying to see if they put a GPIO to control usb |
| 19:29.22 | LostInSpace | like pb_ suggested |
| 19:30.06 | jc | it seems its not a part of openmoko svn |
| 19:31.35 | jc | stupid binary blob |
| 19:31.36 | jc | s |
| 19:31.49 | jc | gotta hate standard packaging utilities |
| 19:32.22 | *** join/#openmoko ScarEye (n=scareye@12.27.87.66) |
| 19:33.11 | mwester | SRC_URI = "svn://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target;module=gpio;proto=http" |
| 19:33.25 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=federico@moinmoin/developer/federico) |
| 19:35.04 | LostInSpace | oh |
| 19:35.27 | jc | svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.openmoko.org': Connection refused |
| 19:35.49 | LostInSpace | module? |
| 19:36.08 | jc | gpio ? |
| 19:36.24 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@84-74-81-174.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:36.28 | LostInSpace | http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/gpio/ |
| 19:36.31 | LostInSpace | seems to do the same thing |
| 19:36.42 | jc | the http one works |
| 19:36.52 | LostInSpace | mind u says for 2442 |
| 19:37.24 | LostInSpace | same base hex add for gpios 5600xxxxxxxxx |
| 19:37.33 | LostInSpace | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:37.39 | LostInSpace | wonder if they are mapped the same way |
| 19:38.22 | jc | huh.. its called gpio and yet its downloading lots of artwork? :) |
| 19:39.11 | jc | I think I got it wrong somehow, nevermind |
| 19:40.10 | jc | yeah, forgot to add /gpio |
| 19:41.09 | jc | wth |
| 19:41.21 | jc | are ports unprotected in userspace ? |
| 19:41.24 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=Deubeuli@AFontenayssB-151-1-6-112.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:42.04 | *** join/#openmoko alexxy|home (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171) |
| 19:42.23 | LostInSpace | !?!?! |
| 19:42.41 | jc | seems so, this tool is written for linux :) |
| 19:43.06 | jc | all hail potential virus writers |
| 19:43.13 | lindi- | jc: you need root? |
| 19:43.30 | jc | that would make sense |
| 19:43.43 | *** join/#openmoko claudyus (n=root@85-18-194-11.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 19:43.54 | jc | but even though you're root you should not have unprotected access to memory mapped periherals |
| 19:43.58 | jc | I thought the soc had mmu |
| 19:44.05 | jc | ooooooh |
| 19:44.06 | jc | dumb me |
| 19:44.08 | jc | now I get it |
| 19:44.15 | jc | it does it over /dev/mem |
| 19:44.19 | jc | never mind then |
| 19:44.35 | LostInSpace | yup |
| 19:44.38 | LostInSpace | like devmem2 |
| 19:45.00 | jc | I'm not used to having raw memory access :D |
| 19:45.02 | LostInSpace | mwester, funny can't see to get the file from that SRC URI |
| 19:45.28 | jc | LostInSpace: svn checkout http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/gpio gpio |
| 19:45.49 | LostInSpace | jc, i'm there |
| 19:45.52 | LostInSpace | already checked it out before |
| 19:45.55 | LostInSpace | i Can use it |
| 19:46.00 | LostInSpace | probably need to modify it |
| 19:46.02 | jc | its gpio.c as it seems |
| 19:46.03 | LostInSpace | since that was written for 2442 |
| 19:46.11 | LostInSpace | and will need different port ranges |
| 19:46.38 | jc | if it was called 24xx maybe its usable across the whole family |
| 19:46.48 | jc | I think they probably have different ports but same base |
| 19:47.03 | LostInSpace | yes but |
| 19:47.17 | LostInSpace | wouldn't s3c24xx-gpio be called s3c24xx.gpio.c |
| 19:47.19 | LostInSpace | and not gpio.c |
| 19:47.20 | LostInSpace | ? |
| 19:48.35 | jc | maybe someone tried it on a different soc from the same family and came to conclusion it works too so he'd call the package s3c24xx-gpio |
| 19:48.55 | jc | If these ports apply for you: |
| 19:49.02 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.02 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.02 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.02 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.02 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.03 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.05 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.07 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.09 | jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.11 | LostInSpace | well pretty sure J doesn't apply |
| 19:49.21 | LostInSpace | the rest i'd have to check |
| 19:49.26 | jc | which cpu is it ? |
| 19:49.29 | LostInSpace | quickly like that it seems to make sense |
| 19:49.32 | LostInSpace | s3c2410a |
| 19:50.11 | jc | well unfortunately havent got that one handy |
| 19:50.21 | LostInSpace | i have the pdf |
| 19:50.35 | LostInSpace | i'll cross check the hex address and number of bits/ports |
| 19:50.55 | jc | I have S3C2442B datasheet handy and it says: |
| 19:50.59 | jc | - Port A(GPA): 25-output port |
| 19:51.00 | jc | - Port B(GPB): 11-input/out port |
| 19:51.00 | jc | - Port C(GPC): 16-input/output port |
| 19:51.00 | jc | - Port D(GPD): 16-input/output port |
| 19:51.00 | jc | - Port E(GPE): 16-input/output port |
| 19:51.00 | jc | - Port F(GPF): 8-input/output port |
| 19:51.02 | jc | - Port G(GPG): 16-input/output port |
| 19:51.04 | jc | - Port H(GPH): 9-input/output port |
| 19:51.06 | jc | - Port J(GPJ): 13-input/output port |
| 19:51.11 | jc | seems to be exact match |
| 19:51.14 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@pdpc/supporter/active/bluelightning) |
| 19:51.20 | jc | obviously written by a fr developer I'd think |
| 19:51.25 | LostInSpace | as i'm guessing pt_a applies for output only and pt_b appiies for input/output |
| 19:51.45 | jc | as you can see, seems s |
| 19:51.46 | LostInSpace | jc, you have 25output ports on gpa yes the gpio.c specifies only 23 =P |
| 19:51.46 | jc | so |
| 19:51.54 | LostInSpace | so doesn't matche your proc from what i read |
| 19:52.24 | jc | oh you mean pins |
| 19:52.33 | LostInSpace | jc no |
| 19:52.37 | LostInSpace | first line |
| 19:52.48 | LostInSpace | 43 { "A", 0x00, 22, pt_a }, = 23 port |
| 19:52.48 | jc | maybe they omitted the ones that are used for special functions |
| 19:52.53 | LostInSpace | 0 + 22 = 23 |
| 19:52.59 | *** join/#openmoko Alinermedia (n=jaranda@201.143.102.101.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 19:53.02 | LostInSpace | you said ur proc has 25ports on GPA |
| 19:53.08 | LostInSpace | there for it doesn't match your proc =) |
| 19:53.23 | jc | pins :D |
| 19:53.30 | jc | there are 9 ports |
| 19:53.43 | jc | port A, port B, port C, ... |
| 19:54.00 | jc | lets see |
| 19:54.01 | *** part/#openmoko Alinermedia (n=jaranda@201.143.102.101.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 19:54.17 | jc | - Port C(GPC): 16-input/output port and in the tool: 45 { "C", 0x20, 15, pt_b } |
| 19:54.24 | jc | lets see what special function port C has |
| 19:54.27 | *** join/#openmoko Alinermedia (n=jaranda@201.143.102.101.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 19:54.49 | *** join/#openmoko matc (n=camenzin@adsl-84-227-62-211.adslplus.ch) |
| 19:55.23 | jc | some lcd stuff |
| 19:55.32 | jc | afaik, lcd is controlled by glamo on fr, so doesn't apply |
| 19:55.37 | SpeedEvil | http://www.elinux.org/Hammer_Board |
| 19:55.40 | SpeedEvil | may be of use |
| 19:55.47 | jc | oh I know where to find a clue |
| 19:55.51 | SpeedEvil | it's got some pinouts of the 2410, nicely written down |
| 19:55.57 | jc | there was some gpio description by the devs |
| 19:55.59 | SpeedEvil | but the datasheet is the real answer |
| 19:56.16 | SpeedEvil | and the schematic |
| 19:56.41 | jc | https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/doc/hardware/GTA02v4/gpio.txt |
| 19:56.52 | mwester | The 2410 manual is on the web. |
| 19:56.52 | jc | GPC5IGPC5PIO_5 |
| 19:56.52 | jc | thats our answer |
| 19:56.56 | jc | all NC except this one |
| 19:56.59 | jc | so that adds up |
| 19:57.22 | jc | they omitted the pins that are used for special purposes on the fr, obviously |
| 19:57.38 | jc | but anyway, if you modify it, maybe it will work for you too |
| 19:58.00 | TAsn | is it just me or have the OM certificated expired something like a month ago? |
| 19:58.57 | jc | yeah, I just added an exception |
| 20:01.23 | jc | SpeedEvil, hey thats a cool board :) |
| 20:01.27 | LostInSpace | i have the s3c2410 manual |
| 20:01.30 | LostInSpace | i aam comparing the gpio.c |
| 20:01.36 | LostInSpace | just sick of using devmem2 for gpios =) |
| 20:01.38 | SpeedEvil | jc: it is |
| 20:01.54 | jc | nice way of avoiding the soldering |
| 20:02.24 | LostInSpace | an arduino on steroids! |
| 20:02.33 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host22-224-dynamic.30-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:02.40 | jc | actually, I think 'arduino on steroids' is just ARM7TDMI with minimal clock ;) |
| 20:02.56 | jc | I saw it somewhere |
| 20:03.07 | *** join/#openmoko ^wd^ (n=wd@82.119.147.190) |
| 20:03.15 | jc | oh her it is: http://pandatron.cz/?559&vyvojovy_kit_at91sam7s256_firmy_kramara |
| 20:04.52 | jc | this thing is crazy |
| 20:04.58 | jc | with mmu and everything |
| 20:05.06 | *** join/#openmoko mirko-paroli (n=mirko@80.251.192.2) |
| 20:05.08 | *** join/#openmoko ayeuu (n=ayeuu@80.125.173.55) |
| 20:05.55 | *** join/#openmoko dougt__ (n=dougt@c-69-181-65-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:06.52 | jc | it's a shame it doesn't have external memory interface though |
| 20:07.15 | Tm_T | jc: use the knife |
| 20:07.26 | jc | Tm_T: knife ? |
| 20:07.50 | Tm_T | plastic case, knife and creativity == external interface |
| 20:08.05 | Tm_T | (if you're lucky and/or skillful) |
| 20:08.08 | *** join/#openmoko cb22_ (n=federico@dsl-245-162-117.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 20:08.08 | jc | I don't get it :) |
| 20:08.32 | Tm_T | jc: sillyness, ignore |
| 20:08.51 | jc | you mean like slicing the die so I can access the internal busses? :D |
| 20:08.52 | *** join/#openmoko morosino (n=morosino@adsl-84-226-105-148.adslplus.ch) |
| 20:09.07 | Tm_T | jc: and then use duct-tape |
| 20:09.09 | jc | that would be hard core... |
| 20:09.21 | jc | yeah if you've got micron precision hands ;) |
| 20:09.36 | Tm_T | like me |
| 20:10.58 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-69-181-65-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:10.58 | jc | I'd just sample it and solder it myself if I needed it, requieres less precision and reverse engineering skill ;P |
| 20:11.03 | balrog-kun | i'm sure the duct-tape alone would suffice |
| 20:11.20 | balrog-kun | no need for knives |
| 20:11.33 | jc | if it has pins for that |
| 20:12.33 | jc | oh actually I think atmel Xmega is arduino on steroids ;) |
| 20:13.40 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@h249n2c1o1036.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 20:13.52 | jc | even the arm7tdmi one is so powerful that it would not even see arduino in comparison and probably just crush it like a fly |
| 20:14.14 | jc | I think it can't even be underclocked to 20 MHz hehehe |
| 20:14.44 | jc | (kidding, but you get the point) |
| 20:15.51 | *** part/#openmoko Alinermedia (n=jaranda@201.143.102.101.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 20:17.33 | LostInSpace | actually |
| 20:17.37 | LostInSpace | with micro positioning needles |
| 20:18.14 | LostInSpace | some fuming nitric acid...some nail polish some wood stain remover it could be done! |
| 20:18.19 | *** join/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) |
| 20:18.34 | *** join/#openmoko Alinermedia (n=jaranda@201.143.102.101.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 20:18.47 | morosino | hi everybody |
| 20:18.52 | jc | try it and submit for a honorary hack a day post to make your hack ever living ;) |
| 20:19.07 | jc | that would be cool |
| 20:19.26 | LostInSpace | lol |
| 20:19.27 | jc | 'ever tired of the simple SoC dev modules denying you acess to internal memory buses?' |
| 20:19.33 | LostInSpace | oh and an ultrasonic cleaner 2 |
| 20:20.00 | jc | 'turns out its very easy! you just need ultra precision tools' |
| 20:20.00 | morosino | I have a question regarding the wsod: is this still a problem with the freerunner? |
| 20:20.31 | LostInSpace | wood stain remover = hydrofluoric acid =) if you were wondering |
| 20:20.46 | jc | good to know |
| 20:21.13 | jc | maybe I'll try that on one of those old communist us ttl nand copies lying around |
| 20:21.16 | *** join/#openmoko claudyus (n=root@85-18-194-11.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 20:21.51 | jc | morosino: I haven't seen it since I got mine |
| 20:22.02 | LostInSpace | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnY7UVyaFiQ&eurl=http://vodpod.com/watch/799006-smart-card-hacking&feature=player_embedded |
| 20:22.06 | LostInSpace | chris tavnorsky |
| 20:22.19 | LostInSpace | tarnovsky sorry hahaha |
| 20:22.43 | jc | heeey thats so cool :D |
| 20:24.11 | LostInSpace | it's old |
| 20:24.14 | LostInSpace | nothing new |
| 20:24.18 | LostInSpace | but this guy has skillz =) |
| 20:24.43 | jc | I saw something like this with poor mans standard pdip dies |
| 20:24.43 | LostInSpace | i also like the techniques of removing security locks on microchips using a camera flash and a microscope |
| 20:25.01 | jc | and the pic micros ;) |
| 20:25.14 | jc | yeah those are THE skills ; |
| 20:25.15 | jc | ;) |
| 20:25.19 | LostInSpace | yup |
| 20:25.26 | LostInSpace | but requires alot of equipment to do it right |
| 20:25.27 | jc | (and equipment) |
| 20:26.10 | jc | 'sit on the bus' |
| 20:26.13 | jc | love the sound of that :D |
| 20:26.44 | LostInSpace | lol |
| 20:26.51 | LostInSpace | it's a nicer attack |
| 20:26.56 | LostInSpace | using glitchers is kinda nasty |
| 20:27.08 | LostInSpace | using a trim pot to control VCC and see how the chip reacts at diff voltages |
| 20:27.15 | LostInSpace | see if it accepts commands it shouldn't |
| 20:27.34 | jc | with AVRs I tried, flash and eeprom writing ceases to work |
| 20:27.59 | jc | and at low voltage, it seems to switch off |
| 20:28.10 | LostInSpace | well this is the thing |
| 20:28.16 | LostInSpace | u have to find the voltage that the chip still works |
| 20:28.19 | LostInSpace | and that it hickups |
| 20:28.31 | LostInSpace | sometimes it'll take 10 hours for the hickup to happen when you are passing the command |
| 20:28.33 | jc | I think it has brown out detection at a safe level |
| 20:28.36 | LostInSpace | which is a pain in the arse |
| 20:28.53 | LostInSpace | jc, depends tho |
| 20:29.03 | LostInSpace | i had a POV project i complete with a pic16f628 |
| 20:29.16 | jc | oh don't get me started on pics :) |
| 20:29.20 | LostInSpace | and when i programmed the chip with boden it wouldn't start on 3v (two 1.5volt batts) |
| 20:29.25 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=federico@moinmoin/developer/federico) |
| 20:29.45 | LostInSpace | but if i took my variable psu I could power the chip up at 5 and then lower it to under the brown out voltage and the chip still worked |
| 20:29.46 | LostInSpace | lol |
| 20:29.52 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 20:29.56 | jc | thats not necessarily 3V, I think one cell goes as low as 1.1V when discharging |
| 20:29.57 | LostInSpace | wada brown out defective detectors those have |
| 20:30.05 | LostInSpace | i was giving an example |
| 20:30.15 | LostInSpace | i wanted to run my project on 3volts (which i knew the chip could handle) |
| 20:30.22 | LostInSpace | yet somehow it was refusing to |
| 20:30.25 | LostInSpace | i later found out |
| 20:30.34 | LostInSpace | my willem software wasn't writting the correct config bits |
| 20:30.39 | LostInSpace | and wasn't disabling boden |
| 20:30.48 | jc | well the thing is, 1.5V battery doesn't have 1.5V all the time |
| 20:30.55 | jc | actually its a minimum amount of time, if ever |
| 20:30.59 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl (n=bumbl@91-113-58-203.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 20:31.13 | LostInSpace | jc that's not my point silly =P |
| 20:31.30 | jc | oh |
| 20:31.52 | LostInSpace | my point is i think the 16f628 is locked at like 4.5volts of brown out threshhold |
| 20:32.05 | jc | and what was the setting ? |
| 20:32.08 | LostInSpace | i could power up the chip with 5volts on variable psu then lower it down to 4volts and the chip would work |
| 20:32.28 | LostInSpace | yet boden should've tripped out at 4.5volts (dunno if it's 4.5volts i don't fully remembre) |
| 20:32.32 | jc | I can't beleive it could be 0.5V off |
| 20:32.36 | LostInSpace | but i do know it has a fixed boden |
| 20:32.41 | jc | maybe there were other factors |
| 20:32.45 | LostInSpace | actually all of the ones i had could go lower then 4.5volts |
| 20:32.47 | jc | like power saving once the chip was on |
| 20:33.06 | LostInSpace | anynways i did this to see thill when it stopped |
| 20:33.15 | LostInSpace | usualy 3.9volts the chip would stop responding |
| 20:33.51 | LostInSpace | so i was confused i wanted to use my software and microchip with 2 1.5volt batts and once it worked switch to 2 3volt lithium coin cells |
| 20:34.01 | jc | but pics are bad for your health anyway... even if brainded on the hardware side too or not |
| 20:34.24 | LostInSpace | see my issue was the pdf said |
| 20:34.30 | LostInSpace | even if i didn't used the L (low voltage one |
| 20:35.00 | LostInSpace | it should still operate at (taking this from pdf right now to be exact) |
| 20:35.25 | LostInSpace | 3.0v to 5.5v...and L version (low voltage) 2.0 to 5.5v |
| 20:35.25 | jc | you could have got there a temporary boost by using a inductor, hopefully long enough to get the chip running |
| 20:35.43 | LostInSpace | i don't like going the booster way for a small project |
| 20:35.48 | LostInSpace | that i want on the cheappppp cheap side |
| 20:35.54 | jc | just for the start up |
| 20:36.00 | jc | a simple inductor on the vcc ;) |
| 20:36.04 | LostInSpace | for the startup i went variable PSU |
| 20:36.11 | LostInSpace | anyways i wasn't testing boden |
| 20:36.23 | LostInSpace | i was wanting to see if the program worked and why didn't work at 3.0volts like the pdf said |
| 20:36.32 | LostInSpace | sratched my head more and more |
| 20:36.40 | *** join/#openmoko mgregson (n=mgregson@76-10-128-253.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 20:37.05 | jc | you can start up AVR on a way lower voltage than expected too |
| 20:37.14 | LostInSpace | well the issue was |
| 20:37.14 | jc | but some stuff won't work |
| 20:37.16 | jc | thats bad |
| 20:37.21 | LostInSpace | i didn't know why it didn't wanna start |
| 20:37.28 | LostInSpace | at 3.0volts as it should've |
| 20:37.41 | LostInSpace | and that's when i started investigating with other pic16f628 i had lying around |
| 20:37.51 | LostInSpace | discovering they all magicaly triggered off at the same voltage |
| 20:38.03 | LostInSpace | at first i discarded boden since voltage was below boden |
| 20:38.10 | LostInSpace | and I hadn't programmed boden |
| 20:38.26 | jc | but you got your fuses wrong, as I get it |
| 20:38.40 | LostInSpace | well i didn't |
| 20:38.46 | LostInSpace | the sivava willem software had them wrong |
| 20:38.50 | LostInSpace | and still do as of today |
| 20:38.55 | LostInSpace | even tho i sent them manyyyyyy god damn emails |
| 20:38.59 | jc | bad for them |
| 20:39.04 | jc | do your own programming equipment ;) |
| 20:39.06 | LostInSpace | but i love the programmer and it's compatible with pony prog and others |
| 20:39.17 | jc | I had piccolo for pic |
| 20:39.25 | jc | after that I did custom programmers |
| 20:39.33 | jc | because of its obviously crappy design |
| 20:39.40 | jc | I got disappointed |
| 20:40.40 | LostInSpace | well the willem has an astonishingly good hardware design |
| 20:40.48 | LostInSpace | cheap cheap and i've programmed so many devices |
| 20:40.53 | jc | they try to say they've got the greatest equipment on earth for programming anything but still they can't power of paralle port and use crappy 7805 on 12V line (!) |
| 20:40.59 | LostInSpace | even some that aren't supported (my friends bios update failed hahaha ) |
| 20:41.05 | *** join/#openmoko khorben_ (n=khorben@p57A205D0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:41.13 | LostInSpace | the willem i have uses usb power |
| 20:41.29 | jc | anyway pics aren't good for your health ;) |
| 20:41.37 | LostInSpace | they hurt my head |
| 20:41.41 | LostInSpace | but they were cheap when i got them |
| 20:41.42 | jc | memory paging is so backwards |
| 20:41.47 | LostInSpace | mind you i do like programming in ASM |
| 20:41.47 | jc | same here |
| 20:41.51 | jc | me too |
| 20:42.01 | LostInSpace | http://www.sivava.com/EPROM_Programmer_4.html |
| 20:42.03 | LostInSpace | thats what i gots |
| 20:42.16 | LostInSpace | and trust me |
| 20:42.42 | jc | huh.. EPROM programmer ? |
| 20:43.44 | jc | oh it can do pics too |
| 20:43.52 | *** join/#openmoko l403 (n=l@85.132.159.239) |
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| 20:44.46 | jc | I did all my programming with ICSP or whatever it was called anyway |
| 20:44.54 | jc | so I had just a simple cable passthrough |
| 20:45.21 | LostInSpace | at work i have 4 port jtags (for jtagging) and bitbang flash programmers (dataio) |
| 20:45.27 | LostInSpace | i made the work buy some of those sivava |
| 20:45.35 | LostInSpace | for 300$ you program alot of stuff |
| 20:45.43 | jc | you work with those things ? |
| 20:45.55 | LostInSpace | yup |
| 20:46.02 | jc | what kinda work you do? ;) |
| 20:46.02 | LostInSpace | mostly data IO for programming tho |
| 20:46.08 | LostInSpace | cause willems are 2 slow |
| 20:46.15 | LostInSpace | but for home uses |
| 20:46.28 | LostInSpace | and it has an ICSP connect on their 2 |
| 20:46.39 | LostInSpace | scroll down the page for a liste of supported chips |
| 20:47.20 | jc | PIC16F84(A) were the stuff of my programming days |
| 20:47.29 | jc | the cheapest available but still pretty expensive |
| 20:47.36 | jc | nowadays avrs are even much cheaper here |
| 20:47.48 | jc | they finally got here and gained popularity in homebrew |
| 20:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko ARZEJ (n=user@dfz154.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 20:48.01 | LostInSpace | yu |
| 20:48.03 | LostInSpace | yup |
| 20:48.07 | LostInSpace | 16f628 is their new equivalent |
| 20:48.11 | LostInSpace | well their old new equiv |
| 20:48.15 | LostInSpace | not is' like 16f628A or something |
| 20:48.43 | jc | I remember when I had to do UART emulation in software cuz it didn't have a port, lol |
| 20:48.55 | LostInSpace | that sucked |
| 20:49.02 | LostInSpace | at least the 16f628 had one =) |
| 20:49.03 | jc | nowadays just seeing a response on pc terminal doesn't get you all excited anymore |
| 20:49.10 | LostInSpace | nah 2 easy |
| 20:49.18 | jc | just have a right crystal |
| 20:49.29 | LostInSpace | anywahs like i said the willem from sivava works pretty well for cheap |
| 20:49.45 | LostInSpace | i've restored many dead pcs (bios update corrupted/failed) |
| 20:49.45 | jc | I was dumb then so I used a micro without hardware uart and with 4MHz crystal :D |
| 20:49.57 | LostInSpace | even asus crash free bios (it fails miserably on my friends board hahaha) |
| 20:49.58 | jc | that means 1MHz in PIC-speak lol |
| 20:50.10 | LostInSpace | well now with the built int 4mhz crystal |
| 20:50.14 | LostInSpace | still means 1mhz =P |
| 20:50.36 | LostInSpace | 4mhz internal clock |
| 20:50.38 | jc | AVRs divide by two but they have onboard pll multiplier |
| 20:50.42 | LostInSpace | divivde by 4 to get instruction cycle |
| 20:50.56 | LostInSpace | i even had my pics intenal osc noted down |
| 20:51.02 | LostInSpace | since i was doing freq gens |
| 20:51.06 | jc | so the instruction cycle is as long as period of the crystal |
| 20:51.07 | jc | thats neat |
| 20:51.13 | LostInSpace | thank god the hp oscilloscope here was precise hahaha |
| 20:51.16 | jc | and you get up to 20MHz |
| 20:51.19 | LostInSpace | yeah |
| 20:51.20 | jc | suck on that, microschip ;) |
| 20:51.21 | LostInSpace | AVR for the win! |
| 20:51.28 | jc | *microchip |
| 20:52.10 | SpeedEvil | Other fun device. http://stmcircle.com/ |
| 20:52.22 | SpeedEvil | 23 bit microprocessor, LCD, accelerometer, all for $50 US |
| 20:52.41 | jc | SpeedEvil: lookup error |
| 20:52.44 | LostInSpace | don't you mean |
| 20:52.47 | LostInSpace | stm32circle.com? |
| 20:52.50 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 20:52.51 | SpeedEvil | that |
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| 20:53.15 | SpeedEvil | Oh - there's a new one that's not round |
| 20:53.18 | jc | oooh cortex |
| 20:53.22 | jc | isn't that the arm core ? |
| 20:53.26 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 20:53.28 | SpeedEvil | no MMU |
| 20:53.32 | jc | the one that got me soooo greatly excited |
| 20:53.36 | LostInSpace | god dang it |
| 20:53.43 | jc | that it came in hobbbyist friendly packages |
| 20:53.47 | LostInSpace | downloaded angstrom.dev |
| 20:53.48 | SpeedEvil | But ~70MHz 200k of ROM, 20K of RAM in a 4*4mm package |
| 20:53.53 | LostInSpace | that has s3c24xx-gpio_svn.bb |
| 20:54.01 | SpeedEvil | jc: QFN is nice to solder :) |
| 20:54.04 | jc | and when I read a first datasheet I came across, discovered its a goddamn harvard architecture? :P |
| 20:54.04 | LostInSpace | same SRC URI as mwester gave...failes to fetch as well |
| 20:54.46 | SpeedEvil | jc: sort-of. |
| 20:55.06 | jc | shame anyways |
| 20:55.08 | LostInSpace | seems to be the same as gpio.c tho |
| 20:55.09 | SpeedEvil | jc: it's by default haarvard, you can run code from RAM space, it's just slower as you get bus contention |
| 20:55.12 | LostInSpace | so i'll go with that |
| 20:55.35 | jc | oh |
| 20:55.36 | LostInSpace | jc, to answer your question |
| 20:55.48 | LostInSpace | jc, i work with semiconductor inventory and we have a semiconductor lab |
| 20:56.16 | LostInSpace | jc, XRF machines...quad pod jtags...data io programmers...environmental chambers...tape and reel makes etc etc |
| 20:56.20 | jc | well in 8051 you can too copy code over to external ram and switch it over gpio to be a program memory |
| 20:56.29 | jc | that doesn't make it von neumann' |
| 20:56.35 | LostInSpace | Which I use for alot of personnal projects or arguments when the time comes hahaha |
| 20:56.37 | *** join/#openmoko arzej (n=user@dfz154.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 20:57.15 | jc | LostInSpace: nice, I'd love to work with MCUs too :P |
| 20:57.17 | LostInSpace | IE my brother when he was a kid had a golden looking pokemon card and my mother was sure it wasn't gold plated) and I was...slammed it in the XRF and voila AU % pops up! mouhahah |
| 20:57.35 | jc | but here in Czech Republic, programming sucks so I think I'll be a train engineer |
| 20:57.36 | LostInSpace | mind you the XRF devices we have aren't the best |
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| 20:58.10 | jc | lol |
| 20:58.16 | mwester | wants to be in the circus when he grows up. |
| 20:58.57 | LostInSpace | bombarding stuff with X-rays is always fun |
| 20:59.05 | jc | wants to drive trains two days a week and spend all the money and raises other train engineers got admitted due to constantly rebelling on hacking and writing programs for fun :P |
| 20:59.20 | mwester | Microwave ovens work pretty well when yo udon't have XRF thingies. |
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| 20:59.55 | LostInSpace | lol |
| 21:00.03 | LostInSpace | yes but XRF tells you approximatly what's in the thingy |
| 21:00.09 | LostInSpace | while the microwave oven just melts it |
| 21:00.21 | LostInSpace | unless you're making grape plasma in the microwave oven |
| 21:00.23 | jc | oh, thats just a side effect |
| 21:00.25 | LostInSpace | then that's fun 2 |
| 21:00.34 | LostInSpace | x-ray fluorescense is nice! |
| 21:01.13 | LostInSpace | we mostly use it for RoHS purposes |
| 21:01.35 | jc | ahh who came up with that genius thing |
| 21:01.43 | LostInSpace | europeans |
| 21:01.50 | LostInSpace | and then china decided to make their own |
| 21:01.56 | jc | you really get to love the crappy green soldering lead |
| 21:02.01 | LostInSpace | but in small prints omit all kids toys from their RoHS jurisdiction lol |
| 21:02.10 | LostInSpace | no lead! |
| 21:02.11 | jc | well I certainly didn't vote for it |
| 21:02.16 | LostInSpace | crappy grean soldering compound |
| 21:02.18 | jc | dunno hows it called in english |
| 21:02.20 | jc | yeah |
| 21:02.30 | jc | right right... no lead :D :D: D |
| 21:02.31 | LostInSpace | Restriction Of Hazardous Substances |
| 21:02.37 | *** part/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-091-089-131-041.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 21:02.42 | LostInSpace | well it really depends what kinda soldering alloy you choose |
| 21:02.47 | LostInSpace | some aren't as bad as others |
| 21:02.50 | jc | I meant the wire-ish thing you solder with :P |
| 21:02.58 | LostInSpace | mind you all lead free alloys look like you just did a cold solder |
| 21:03.02 | jc | they teach us RoHS in school too |
| 21:03.04 | LostInSpace | and it's been oxidizing for 10 years |
| 21:03.04 | jc | bastards |
| 21:03.19 | LostInSpace | jc soldering alloy =) |
| 21:03.27 | jc | all right then :D |
| 21:03.27 | LostInSpace | trust me i'm against the lead free in some ways |
| 21:03.55 | jc | hobbyists hardly pollute environment with soldering more than all the corporations large factories :P |
| 21:04.24 | jc | and still only soldering alloy available here in hobbyist shop is pb-free |
| 21:04.42 | jc | to make your life miserable even after work |
| 21:04.50 | SpeedEvil | jc: shops - generally - suck everywhere. |
| 21:05.01 | SpeedEvil | jc: that's why there is the internet |
| 21:05.02 | jc | well they don't suck for everything, they actually try :) |
| 21:05.11 | jc | getting general components there is great |
| 21:05.13 | jc | very cheap |
| 21:05.22 | jc | like resistors, caps, inductors, switches, leds, all the stuff |
| 21:05.25 | jc | even avrs are ok |
| 21:05.29 | SpeedEvil | great. |
| 21:05.40 | jc | but for everything smarter, like large memories or cpus you have to use internet thats true |
| 21:05.53 | jc | from practices, sd cards are great cheap large memories for mcus |
| 21:05.58 | jc | *practice |
| 21:06.34 | jc | goddamn 1 Mbit NAND full of errors costs more than a 2GB SD card here |
| 21:07.21 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@host81-153-20-85.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:07.52 | jc | also the pads just beg for soldering :)) |
| 21:09.45 | Wonka | i'd like a quite big nor flash for XIP kernel, busybox, and some more stuff |
| 21:09.52 | *** join/#openmoko sindre (n=sindre@212251182058.customer.cdi.no) |
| 21:10.06 | Wonka | appropriately fast, of course |
| 21:10.09 | jc | sd cards transparently remap.. |
| 21:10.13 | *** join/#openmoko sindre (n=sindre@212251182058.customer.cdi.no) |
| 21:10.15 | Wonka | or mram |
| 21:10.15 | jc | thats neat too |
| 21:10.24 | jc | hey are mrams already available? :) |
| 21:10.28 | *** join/#openmoko sindre (n=sindre@212251182058.customer.cdi.no) |
| 21:10.44 | Wonka | re sdcards: nak. i'd rather access raw flash there with an appropriate flash fs. |
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| 21:11.23 | jc | they're really simple to worth with with the alternative interface |
| 21:11.43 | jc | well I never considered NORs or NANDs as an option |
| 21:12.00 | jc | another accessible storage for hobbyists are old IDE hard drives |
| 21:12.06 | *** join/#openmoko neolynx (n=u@155-252-221-213-pool.dsl.fcom.ch) |
| 21:12.12 | jc | simple command set, slow enough interface |
| 21:12.35 | jc | on ARM you could memory map them |
| 21:12.39 | jc | via memory abort in |
| 21:12.41 | jc | int |
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| 21:13.04 | jc | assuming your cpu can protect pages |
| 21:13.07 | Wonka | hmm... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mram sounds nice... |
| 21:13.24 | lindi- | jc: but simple avr probably does not have mmu? |
| 21:13.34 | jc | lindi- nope in avr its impossible |
| 21:13.46 | jc | except some that have external bus |
| 21:13.50 | jc | and the trick there? quite simple |
| 21:13.52 | jc | you get a second avr |
| 21:13.58 | jc | hook it to the bus |
| 21:14.04 | jc | and hook it to the drive |
| 21:14.09 | jc | and program it to act as pass through |
| 21:14.11 | jc | you get the idea ;) |
| 21:14.13 | Wonka | mram in mobile phones would be _so_ nice for suspending |
| 21:14.51 | lindi- | would be cool to have custom avr running inside freerunner caes |
| 21:15.03 | jc | why so? arm is nice to program too |
| 21:15.12 | lindi- | jc: but eats more power? |
| 21:15.25 | jc | arm7tdmi actually eats lot less in some cases |
| 21:15.34 | lindi- | the custom avr could talk to the GPS chip and act as a data logger while keeping the main cpu in suspend |
| 21:15.42 | jc | it could |
| 21:15.49 | jc | you'd have to tap to gps uart by the avr |
| 21:15.50 | lindi- | jc: ok then we just need to do lots of linux development to save power on the main cpu |
| 21:15.59 | jc | you could talk to avr via i2c for example |
| 21:16.10 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@BAA4c48.baa.pppool.de) |
| 21:16.17 | Wonka | and avr could talk to ublox5 via i2c too |
| 21:16.27 | jc | yeah it doesn't make sense to add an avr |
| 21:16.34 | Wonka | ublox5 has usb too |
| 21:16.43 | Wonka | just use usb, scrap serial |
| 21:16.44 | jc | if you let the soc do simple commands on them and sleep for the rest of time you get much more power saving |
| 21:16.57 | jc | its not just how it works with linux |
| 21:17.00 | jc | thats a general purpose os |
| 21:17.07 | jc | you get task switching all the time |
| 21:17.34 | lindi- | jc: afaik even slow mode has not been used yet |
| 21:17.46 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.94.56) |
| 21:17.50 | jc | I think they use idle mode in idle loops |
| 21:18.06 | jc | and cpufreq scaling isn't implemented afaik |
| 21:18.14 | jc | actually I wanted to do some work on that sometime |
| 21:18.42 | lindi- | that'd be very useful :) |
| 21:19.02 | LostInSpace | awesome |
| 21:19.07 | LostInSpace | gpio.c will work very nicely |
| 21:19.13 | jc | I have no problems with the soc |
| 21:19.17 | jc | its just the kernel |
| 21:19.27 | jc | don't understand it yet... |
| 21:19.53 | jc | you have to notify everything clock has been changed and stuff |
| 21:19.55 | lindi- | jc: can you write custom program that acts as a data logger and does not need linux? |
| 21:20.14 | jc | lindi-: why not? ;) |
| 21:20.17 | lindi- | just boot it directly with uboot |
| 21:20.24 | jc | you can up it over USB DFU to memory |
| 21:20.25 | jc | and boot it |
| 21:20.28 | lindi- | forget display and all that stuff |
| 21:20.42 | jc | well actually with uboot you can't forget display and all that stuff |
| 21:20.49 | jc | you have to turn them off if you want to save power ;) |
| 21:20.53 | lindi- | ah true |
| 21:21.03 | lindi- | but we can ask uboot to do it |
| 21:21.10 | lindi- | so that the payload can be simple |
| 21:21.22 | jc | then you accidentaly write it to nor and have yourself a fancy neo brick |
| 21:21.36 | lindi- | i thought writing to nor was not possible? |
| 21:21.49 | jc | someone says yes, someone says no |
| 21:21.53 | jc | I don't know personally |
| 21:22.00 | jc | over JTAG its definitely possible |
| 21:22.09 | lindi- | also with debug board it can be rescued |
| 21:22.15 | jc | brb |
| 21:22.16 | *** join/#openmoko reinouts (n=reinout@s559355fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 21:23.51 | LostInSpace | JTAG ftw |
| 21:23.59 | LostInSpace | had no choice to find out the jtag pin outs on the gps i'm messing with |
| 21:24.25 | LostInSpace | was fun! (thank god 4 ports need 10kpull resistors) |
| 21:24.30 | LostInSpace | made my job of finding the possible pins easier =) |
| 21:24.33 | Wonka | ah, that's why you're LostInSpace |
| 21:24.53 | Wonka | *duck* |
| 21:24.54 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.94.56) |
| 21:24.56 | LostInSpace | Wonka, lol |
| 21:25.09 | LostInSpace | no worries I have some sorta sense of humor hidden somewhere =) |
| 21:25.22 | Wonka | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:25.25 | Wonka | SystemError: NULL result without error in PyObject_Call |
| 21:25.28 | Wonka | wtf? |
| 21:25.30 | LostInSpace | and right now /dev/senseofhumoer -> /dev/random |
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| 21:35.17 | LostInSpace | well hopefully gpio.c will help me figure out why anything i plug in to usb ports turns out not responding |
| 21:35.49 | LostInSpace | used devmem2 to edit misccr to put 2nd usb port in host mode and anything i plug in error -62 as well w00t |
| 21:35.56 | LostInSpace | wish me luck |
| 21:36.47 | LostInSpace | http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/gpio/README <--- The pin state can be followed by "R", which indicates that the |
| 21:36.47 | LostInSpace | corresponding pull-down resistor is active. |
| 21:36.53 | LostInSpace | don't they mean pull-up resistor? |
| 21:37.19 | *** join/#openmoko jOERG_zzZZzz (n=jr@118-166-71-84.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 21:37.24 | pb_ | yeah, probably |
| 21:37.27 | LostInSpace | oh yeah they mean pull up |
| 21:37.33 | pb_ | crazy samsung keep switching between pull-ups and pull-downs |
| 21:37.36 | *** join/#openmoko joerg_42 (n=jr-N810@118-166-71-84.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 21:37.41 | LostInSpace | pb_, really? |
| 21:37.48 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 21:37.58 | LostInSpace | well for the s3c2410 it's pull up at least according to the GPXUP port configs |
| 21:37.59 | LostInSpace | lol |
| 21:38.13 | LostInSpace | mind you i thought using pull downs is considered a big nono now adays |
| 21:38.24 | pb_ | yeah, really. s3c2410 has pull-up resistors: set the bit in GPxUP to disable them. |
| 21:38.25 | LostInSpace | a try to avoid case |
| 21:38.40 | pb_ | s3c2412 has pull-down resistors instead, though again the same register bit disables them. |
| 21:38.50 | pb_ | I'm not quite sure what s3c2442 has offhand |
| 21:38.56 | LostInSpace | the gpio.c was made for s3c2442 (so far seems to match my s3c2410 except i don't have port J) |
| 21:39.06 | lindi- | LostInSpace: why are they nono? |
| 21:39.23 | LostInSpace | lindi-, a big NO NO means something you're not supposed to do/avoid |
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| 21:42.53 | lindi- | LostInSpace: yes but why should you avoid pulldowns? |
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| 21:46.45 | Wonka | http://bugs.debian.org/508710 hit me too |
| 21:48.25 | Dave | :o |
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| 21:53.54 | jc | LostInSpace: the fr soc has pull-downs |
| 21:54.37 | LostInSpace | jc that's weird |
| 21:54.58 | LostInSpace | afaik i was always told pull downs were only good for TTL |
| 21:55.00 | jc | yeah, not used to them either |
| 21:55.18 | jc | it has cmos levels afaik |
| 21:55.23 | LostInSpace | afaik depending on your devices 0/1 thresholds i guess |
| 21:55.31 | SpeedEvil | los: err - no |
| 21:55.43 | LostInSpace | SpeedEvil, care to elaborate =) |
| 21:55.52 | jc | PORT PULL-DOWN REGISTER (GPBDN-GPJDN) |
| 21:55.52 | jc | The port pull-down register controls the pull-down resister enable/disable of each port group. When the |
| 21:55.52 | jc | corresponding bit is 0, the pull-down resister of the pin is enabled. When 1, the pull-down resister is disabled. |
| 21:55.52 | jc | If the port pull-down register is enabled then the pull-down resisters work without pin?s functional setting(input, |
| 21:55.53 | jc | output, DATAn, EINTn and etc) |
| 21:56.00 | SpeedEvil | pull-ups and pull-downs are used to connect external devices that may not have defined logic levels all the time. |
| 21:56.05 | SpeedEvil | For example. |
| 21:56.09 | LostInSpace | i know that silly |
| 21:56.10 | jc | yeah |
| 21:56.13 | LostInSpace | you don't want a port in a floating state |
| 21:56.22 | CIA-67 | openmoko: 03werner * r4876 10/developers/werner/greg/ds.pl: Dumper for raw whitespace-separated hex bytes. |
| 21:56.28 | LostInSpace | afaik it depends on your 0/1 threshold levels to know if you can use pull-downs |
| 21:56.29 | jc | LostInSpace: what country are you from? ;) |
| 21:56.32 | *** join/#openmoko Pyrasi (n=dan@74-140-180-181.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 21:56.32 | SpeedEvil | If you have a button connected between + and the input, then you enable the pull-down on that input, then you don't need an external resistor. |
| 21:56.45 | LostInSpace | aka a 5volt core using anything under 0.8volt = 0 and anything abovr 4volt = 1 |
| 21:56.51 | jc | SpeedEvil: us losers with avrs are used to pull ups |
| 21:56.57 | SpeedEvil | They also keep the voltage at a high or low level if nothing else is driving it. |
| 21:56.58 | jc | so we have 'pushed' state as logic 0 |
| 21:57.12 | LostInSpace | actually |
| 21:57.12 | LostInSpace | a pull-down/up |
| 21:57.13 | LostInSpace | is only used for 2 functions |
| 21:57.15 | jc | SpeedEvil: and how do you debounce them? ;P |
| 21:57.18 | LostInSpace | stop the pin from being in a floating state |
| 21:57.26 | SpeedEvil | If a voltage drifts out of being close to either supply, then it also means that an input uses more power |
| 21:57.27 | LostInSpace | and 2 stop it from being a short when pushed to the opposite state |
| 21:57.28 | SpeedEvil | jc: software |
| 21:57.32 | jc | nasty |
| 21:57.39 | SpeedEvil | jc: A) nasty. |
| 21:57.40 | jc | in a soc running linux |
| 21:57.42 | jc | thats not cool at all |
| 21:57.48 | SpeedEvil | jc: B) free. |
| 21:58.08 | LostInSpace | like i said stop from being in a floating point status...and stop it from being in a short status when opposite is applied |
| 21:58.09 | jc | well guess its only a little fraction of procesing power |
| 21:58.14 | jc | if you check them slow enough |
| 21:58.18 | SpeedEvil | jc: if you've got 10 buttons, and debouncing in hardware takes $.01 per, and you're making tens of thousands of these, it's not a no-brainer. |
| 21:58.25 | jc | 10 buttons? :P |
| 21:58.31 | jc | afaik fr has 2 |
| 21:58.33 | SpeedEvil | jc: done right, it's interrupts. |
| 21:58.34 | LostInSpace | obviously if your using a pull up and the button grounds the VCC that's a short scenario (but the pull-up resistor stops you from using more then 0.1ma) in average |
| 21:58.36 | jc | maybe + headphone jacks |
| 21:58.41 | LostInSpace | thus why 10k pull ups are mostly the standard |
| 21:58.47 | jc | SpeedEvil thats even more nasty, you get multiple useless interrupts |
| 21:59.05 | LostInSpace | the question is I was always told to stay away from pull down |
| 21:59.06 | SpeedEvil | jc: interrupts - done right - take under a microsecond. |
| 21:59.11 | LostInSpace | since you can have floating grounds |
| 21:59.23 | LostInSpace | causing your known state to become unknown |
| 21:59.30 | jc | you could but I guess since theyre not always pushed guess that overally gets better than checking them periodically |
| 21:59.38 | SpeedEvil | LostInSpace: were you taught this back in the mists of time? |
| 21:59.43 | SpeedEvil | LostInSpace: ~1980 |
| 21:59.45 | LostInSpace | SpeedEvil, lol |
| 21:59.48 | LostInSpace | look at trains |
| 21:59.56 | LostInSpace | even today they have floating ground issues =) |
| 22:00.04 | LostInSpace | mist of 2008 beginning of 2009 =) |
| 22:00.06 | SpeedEvil | LostInSpace: TTL logic typically had _very_ weak pull-ups compared to pull down. |
| 22:00.17 | SpeedEvil | LostInSpace: at least in many families. |
| 22:00.59 | jc | trains ? |
| 22:01.01 | LostInSpace | SpeedEvil, I would love to continue this conversation with you but I have to go =( sorry about that |
| 22:01.07 | LostInSpace | SpeedEvil, hopefully we can resume this later =) |
| 22:01.09 | SpeedEvil | ##electronics |
| 22:01.13 | SpeedEvil | also |
| 22:01.16 | SpeedEvil | wave |
| 22:01.25 | *** part/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-237-83.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 22:01.42 | jc | well afaik a simple MOSFET requieres about 1M resistor on gate to be safely pulled up |
| 22:01.57 | SpeedEvil | jc: you mean a power MOSFET? |
| 22:01.59 | jc | or maybe down |
| 22:02.01 | jc | nope |
| 22:02.01 | *** join/#openmoko dougt_ (n=dougt@c-69-181-65-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:02.03 | LostInSpace | SpeedEvil, before I go please note I'm not dismissing your answer just debating and trying to see whats what =) |
| 22:02.05 | jc | a regular cheap one |
| 22:02.10 | jc | switching one of course |
| 22:02.21 | *** join/#openmoko nio_ (n=nio@5571ef58.dsl.concepts.nl) |
| 22:02.22 | SpeedEvil | jc: 1M is _way_ lower than the impedence of the gate. |
| 22:02.32 | SpeedEvil | jc: leakage is tiny, even at elevated temperatures. |
| 22:02.39 | jc | afaik, its not :) |
| 22:02.47 | jc | I have tried it on breadboard |
| 22:02.53 | Wonka | jc: trains need to be rebooted sometimes too... |
| 22:03.03 | jc | I made a simple MOSFET switch on breadbord with LED |
| 22:03.10 | SpeedEvil | jc: Ah. Breadboard. The board of lies! |
| 22:03.26 | Wonka | jc: today, a german ICE train had to rebooted because of a GPF, took about 30mins |
| 22:03.27 | jc | pulling gate up with 1M resistor safely held it up |
| 22:03.27 | SpeedEvil | jc: breadboard has several problems. |
| 22:03.42 | jc | touching it and stuff then didn't affect the leds status |
| 22:03.57 | jc | I consider that a safe pull up for my purposes ;) |
| 22:04.22 | SpeedEvil | Sjc: ure - but that's not really relevant to actual circuit design. |
| 22:04.43 | SpeedEvil | jc: you design to the components - if the user decides to poke with fingers, they deserve all they gett. |
| 22:05.17 | jc | what problems does breadbord have ? |
| 22:05.30 | jc | they don't teach us that kinda stuff here |
| 22:05.35 | SpeedEvil | Ok. BUZ10 - a common - but somewhat older FET. gate-source leakage current is a max of 100nA, with 10nA being typical at 20V |
| 22:05.45 | jc | thats huge |
| 22:05.55 | jc | mine has max 10nA |
| 22:06.03 | jc | BS170 |
| 22:06.10 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-237-83.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 22:06.17 | Sargun | I found a workaround for the charging problem. |
| 22:06.42 | *** join/#openmoko claudyus (n=claudyus@85-18-136-99.fastres.net) |
| 22:06.44 | Sargun | Add these two lines to your crontab: |
| 22:06.45 | Sargun | * * * * *rootecho 500 > /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/force_usb_limit_dangerous |
| 22:06.45 | Sargun | * * * * *rootecho -n "fast_cccv" > /sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/chgmode |
| 22:06.56 | jc | that translates to about 500 Gohm |
| 22:07.00 | jc | M |
| 22:07.02 | jc | Mohm |
| 22:07.12 | Sargun | jc, that's in Mw isn't it? |
| 22:07.32 | jc | the leakage? thats in ampers, its current |
| 22:07.38 | Sargun | oh. |
| 22:07.48 | Sargun | I thought you were talking about what I was talking about |
| 22:07.56 | jc | oh sorry, nope |
| 22:07.58 | SpeedEvil | jc: A) intermittent connections - not so bad with new breadboard and clean components. B) there is 10-15pF between each adjacent line of connectors. C) poor ground and power distribution. |
| 22:08.20 | jc | SpeedEvil ok, whats A about ? |
| 22:08.55 | SpeedEvil | jc: hte connections on the breadboard get dirty and bent with use. Eventually they don't always make contact. So the component you push into the hole may not connect. |
| 22:09.06 | jc | hte ? |
| 22:09.10 | SpeedEvil | jc: the |
| 22:09.12 | jc | oh |
| 22:09.23 | jc | yes, thats true |
| 22:09.41 | jc | although it didn't happen to me yet |
| 22:09.59 | jc | btw |
| 22:10.11 | jc | what effect has spilled coke on the breadbord ? :P |
| 22:10.36 | jc | I cleaned it but theres some of the brown crap left, avrs work though |
| 22:11.44 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 22:12.10 | jc | with the cappacitance, theres some capacitance between any two given points in space, wouldn't wonder about it that much |
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| 22:12.39 | *** join/#openmoko tifereth (n=tuxi@p4FD653E8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:12.39 | jc | although its clear you can't use it for high freq prototyping or something |
| 22:13.09 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 22:14.47 | jc | and about the poor power distribution, if you mean like losses on the lines, its not even measurable with my crappy equipment |
| 22:15.46 | jc | if I had such high tech stuff at home I'd have made freerunner according the schematics and not bought it in the first place ;) |
| 22:15.55 | Sargun | Hahaha |
| 22:16.12 | Sargun | SpeedEvil, Did you do the A7 workaround on your F?R |
| 22:16.17 | jc | but anyways I like supporting the openmoko guys |
| 22:16.26 | jc | appreciate the effort a lot |
| 22:17.06 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 22:17.15 | Sargun | yeah |
| 22:17.40 | jc | this is hackers development in almost the real sense |
| 22:17.46 | Wonka | hmmm... need to find some way to find out what i changed in my SHR install... |
| 22:18.11 | jc | when companies that make the chips decide to start cooperating and release datasheets this WILL be open source |
| 22:19.02 | SpeedEvil | B) catches out about a person every week or two over on ##electronics |
| 22:19.25 | jc | in what sense ? ;) |
| 22:19.35 | SpeedEvil | jc: sorry - had connection probs |
| 22:19.41 | Sargun | fail. |
| 22:19.52 | SpeedEvil | jc: coke will unfortunately rapidly corrode the contacts if it's got in there. |
| 22:19.55 | SpeedEvil | jc: diet? |
| 22:20.02 | jc | no, the real deal |
| 22:20.11 | jc | but only over a part of it |
| 22:20.13 | SpeedEvil | Sargun: I have no FR |
| 22:20.20 | jc | I got a second one anyways ;) |
| 22:20.37 | Sargun | SpeedEvil, oh, can you go find someone with an FR and do the workaround? |
| 22:20.41 | SpeedEvil | jc: sugar will keep it wet, and the acid will make it corrode |
| 22:20.43 | jc | still it works hehe |
| 22:20.51 | *** join/#openmoko Toaster` (n=toaster@bas10-kitchener06-1176145182.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:20.59 | jc | that doesn't sound cool.. |
| 22:21.14 | jc | but what I did with it was rather dumb I must confess |
| 22:21.22 | SpeedEvil | If anyone sends me a FR, I'll try anything with it. |
| 22:21.26 | Toaster` | Interesting. Ubuntu just updated network manager... and mixing managed and unmanaged devices seems to work just fine |
| 22:21.28 | jc | I ripped the bottom insulating part and removed the rails and cleaned them |
| 22:21.57 | jc | well if anyone had such a large sum to spend ;) |
| 22:22.20 | jc | I had to work for it too |
| 22:22.28 | jc | lots of crappy php development |
| 22:22.31 | jc | booooring as hell |
| 22:22.36 | Toaster` | This should make usb networking easier (or at least less aggravating on ubuntu/debian systems. |
| 22:22.38 | jc | gotta love web apps |
| 22:23.55 | *** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=chatzill@78-23-167-142.access.telenet.be) |
| 22:24.07 | jc | SpeedEvil you know what? you don't get a good feeling about the freerunner when peeking through the wiki or sitting here |
| 22:24.16 | jc | the aura is really.. weird and not nice |
| 22:24.24 | jc | but once you get it, you just LOVE that little device ! |
| 22:24.28 | Sargun | gets out of his aura |
| 22:24.39 | Sargun | paints his aura black and red with spray paint |
| 22:24.43 | Sargun | gets back in his aura |
| 22:24.46 | Sargun | growls |
| 22:24.52 | Sargun | scares away little children. |
| 22:25.02 | jc | heey don't make fun of it :P |
| 22:25.13 | jc | that lawsuit thing just amplifies my argument |
| 22:25.36 | jc | dumb people are not happy with theyr phones |
| 22:25.47 | jc | I think it has to do with marketing |
| 22:25.58 | jc | because dumb people shouldn't buy them in the first place |
| 22:26.08 | *** part/#openmoko carcinoma (n=carcinom@pool-40-153-197-89.dbd-ipconnect.net) |
| 22:26.21 | jc | openmoko must have some genius marketing targeted against its developers |
| 22:26.33 | Sargun | heh |
| 22:26.34 | jc | just to gain high sales |
| 22:26.41 | Sargun | steve mosher, no, he's harmless. |
| 22:26.43 | jc | but also, create a lot of hate in the community |
| 22:26.49 | jc | flooding it with dumb people, like ubuntu |
| 22:26.58 | jc | and thats what destroys the developers |
| 22:26.59 | Sargun | HAhhahahahah |
| 22:27.01 | jc | thus a bad aura |
| 22:28.16 | jc | well, thats what I think anyway, haven't been watching it long :P |
| 22:34.11 | *** join/#openmoko Kt_ (n=Kirsat@c-24-98-184-147.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 22:34.19 | jc | freerunner isn't a normal phone.. |
| 22:34.29 | *** join/#openmoko menace (n=knorr@unaffiliated/menace) |
| 22:34.31 | jc | its more like... a dreamy arm9 devboard :P |
| 22:35.10 | jc | its a nice cpu, with minimal capabilities so not overcomplicated but still has mmu so linux perfectly possible |
| 22:35.29 | jc | and the datasheets just nice |
| 22:36.01 | jc | all in one place, as people coming from inferior microcontrollers expect |
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| 22:48.02 | mwester | agrees: "well, thats what I think anyway, haven't been watching it long :P" ... it's clear jc hasn't been watching it long enough. |
| 22:48.33 | mwester | I'm not going to start the raging war here, but I will say that you're wrong. |
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| 22:50.33 | jc | actually its good to hear |
| 22:50.50 | jc | or read/ whatever |
| 22:51.21 | jc | maybe its just a handfull of people who piss you off |
| 22:51.32 | jc | *l |
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| 22:52.22 | jc | for example, I don't like the guys who wanted to sue you attitude at all |
| 22:52.39 | jc | I got the idea this was a prevalent attitude in the community... |
| 22:53.01 | mwester | There is a growing tide of resentment. |
| 22:53.05 | mwester | For good reason. |
| 22:53.15 | *** part/#openmoko menace (n=knorr@unaffiliated/menace) |
| 22:53.23 | jc | why is that ? |
| 22:53.39 | mwester | The product *was* misrepresented, Om *has* failed in numerous (almost every imaginable) way. |
| 22:54.05 | mwester | The good news is that the community, and a very small number of Om employees, have come together to try to make a difference. |
| 22:54.10 | mwester | But Om - they failed. |
| 22:54.16 | jc | well the worst actual hardware thing I noticed was glamo |
| 22:54.24 | raster | man... off the list.. onto the # |
| 22:54.53 | mwester | raster: it's been on the list for months. |
| 22:55.02 | mwester | er, I mean IRC. |
| 22:55.09 | raster | mwester: well recently it's exploded :) |
| 22:55.16 | raster | but i know... don't worry :) |
| 22:55.21 | raster | oooh ok |
| 22:55.34 | mwester | I'm only surprised that it took as long as it did to explode. |
| 22:55.40 | raster | i guess its just the recent mailings are just being mirrored here :) |
| 22:55.51 | raster | i am too |
| 22:55.58 | mwester | The mailings mirror the sentiments first expressed here. |
| 22:56.13 | *** join/#openmoko gcwilso1 (n=gcwilson@32.97.110.59) |
| 22:56.16 | raster | i can understand people |
| 22:56.22 | raster | gta01 was pitched as devs only |
| 22:56.25 | raster | gta02 was not |
| 22:56.38 | raster | people in the community of course defend it the same way |
| 22:56.51 | jc | I take gta02 as a total hacker thing |
| 22:56.55 | mwester | Om has it's rabid "fanboys" just like apple does. |
| 22:57.02 | jc | you can't seriously label it as a smartphone |
| 22:57.03 | raster | but i know it definitely wasn't pitched that way - it was picthed ready to use |
| 22:57.11 | jc | if you want a smartphone, get a crappy htc diamond |
| 22:57.28 | raster | jc: less crappy than a gta02 :) |
| 22:57.33 | mwester | jc: yes, and the frustration is from those who were lead to believe that the gta02 was, from a hardware point -of-view, a fully-ready phone. |
| 22:57.36 | jc | way crappy |
| 22:57.39 | jc | I had it for some time |
| 22:57.44 | mwester | And Om represented it that way. |
| 22:57.47 | jc | WM sucks BIG TIME |
| 22:57.54 | jc | but say whatever you want, it warks |
| 22:57.56 | jc | *works |
| 22:58.04 | jc | you can call, you can organize your time, whatever |
| 22:58.05 | mwester | And when it didn't work out, Om failed to communicate effectively with those folks. The result is a total lack of trust anymore. |
| 22:58.06 | raster | bingo |
| 22:58.14 | jc | its not hackable |
| 22:58.19 | jc | and as a hacker, you get to hate it |
| 22:58.19 | raster | i too dont like winmo |
| 22:58.32 | jc | I even TRIED to program for it in VS |
| 22:58.45 | jc | whenever I got into lib problems I just screamed mad as hell |
| 22:58.49 | jc | everything so closed |
| 22:58.56 | jc | the same with j2me on my former phone |
| 22:58.58 | jc | fucking sandbox |
| 22:58.59 | *** join/#openmoko exactt (n=max@e181139166.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:59.09 | raster | but mwester is right. om didnt place any warning about the phone not working as a phone. people bought lots of them with the impression it was ready to go. |
| 22:59.11 | jc | now I can twiddle leds by writing registers, finally freedom |
| 22:59.31 | raster | hehehe |
| 22:59.38 | raster | an open phone is a fatastic thing |
| 22:59.42 | raster | its a cool idea |
| 22:59.46 | raster | and it does sell |
| 22:59.50 | raster | the problem is in the execution |
| 22:59.50 | *** join/#openmoko RedFlash (n=RedFlash@host58-53-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 22:59.58 | SpeedEvil | raster: exactly. |
| 23:00.07 | SpeedEvil | raster: who do we need to execute is the question. |
| 23:00.13 | Dave | potatoes |
| 23:00.24 | raster | ie - hardware that works (solid phone subsystem that can sleep, wake, reliably handle all the phone functionality and read all sim cards) |
| 23:00.31 | jc | you can't hook to usb uart on diamon and control an avr project in a beautiful easily hacked pygtk interface for gods sakes |
| 23:00.36 | jc | *diamond |
| 23:00.39 | Dave | raster, like the treo? :) |
| 23:00.45 | exactt | hey guys, short question: just trying to install scummvm on SHR... i get: $ opkg install libvorbis |
| 23:00.45 | exactt | Collected errors: |
| 23:00.46 | exactt | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:00.47 | Dave | minus the phone part :p |
| 23:00.49 | raster | power management that means it'd at least last a few days - much like the n800, which never even suspends |
| 23:01.00 | exactt | can anybody help? thx! |
| 23:01.04 | jc | yeah |
| 23:01.08 | Dave | exact: opkg search *vorbis* |
| 23:01.11 | jc | it has hardware problems |
| 23:01.34 | jc | they have been worked around at least to a point that the thing works |
| 23:01.37 | Dave | Raster, in my opinion the treo's power management is old, and crusty, but is very impressive, comparably |
| 23:01.42 | jc | the efforts appreciated a lot |
| 23:01.48 | Dave | It can stay on for WEEKS and resume fine. |
| 23:01.59 | Dave | no problems :) |
| 23:02.29 | exactt | @Dave: thx! i guess its too late at night already... just forgot the obligatory opkg update ... thx |
| 23:02.30 | raster | Dave: hahaha right now treo doesnt suspend/resume right// but it's been hacked for fun by people. not sold as such with linux in a working state :) |
| 23:02.32 | jc | thats all I need when I'm not hacking stuff with it :P |
| 23:03.32 | jc | yeah people had even harder time with ninetndo ds |
| 23:03.41 | Dave | raster, ah :p |
| 23:03.43 | jc | I think they'll get it right in time |
| 23:03.47 | Dave | my zires are awesome |
| 23:04.02 | Wonka | today, i typed "apm -s" in a terminal in SHR, then verified tapping the screen provoked no reaction... 8 hours later, i found it shut down, with empty battery. |
| 23:04.03 | Dave | cocoboot is a godsend |
| 23:04.06 | jc | this is improvement over all devices mentioned so far |
| 23:04.15 | jc | they give you schematics and datasheets for gods sake :) |
| 23:04.30 | jc | you don't even gave to use linux on it |
| 23:04.32 | Dave | haha nintendo |
| 23:04.35 | mwester | jc: you talk, but don't listen. That's NOT the point. |
| 23:04.36 | jc | whatever you hack and works |
| 23:04.53 | jc | I think I didn't get it |
| 23:05.55 | mwester | I know. And I'm not going to argue. But please respect the point of view of some others, who rightly feel that they have not been treated fairly by Om. |
| 23:06.10 | Dave | Yeah, seriously :( |
| 23:06.28 | Dave | Just ask the Lady Basil. |
| 23:06.42 | mwester | Lady Basil is very happy with her GTA01. |
| 23:06.43 | jc | you mean like they can't 'just' power it on and call with it, get on internet and stuff ? |
| 23:07.02 | Dave | Mwester, and her GTA02? |
| 23:07.21 | mwester | jc: I said I'm not going to argue. Your statement just shows that you truely do not understand. Please accept that others have a different experience than you. |
| 23:07.31 | jc | and what is that ? |
| 23:07.35 | mwester | Dave: the GTA02 is mine. :P |
| 23:07.41 | Dave | Ah :D |
| 23:08.01 | jc | I accept of course, but I'm curious what the community is up to |
| 23:08.10 | mwester | jc: it's been explained. Reread the logs for this channel for the past 6 months, re-read the mail lists if you really wish to know. I think, however, that you just want to argue. |
| 23:08.32 | jc | thats not it, where are the logs ? |
| 23:08.33 | mwester | goes off to get some work done. |
| 23:08.49 | jc | well sorry for getting the wrong idea |
| 23:08.51 | Dave | offers mwester some mashed potatoes and gravy he just made on his way out |
| 23:08.56 | jc | I just told you how I feel about it |
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| 23:11.57 | Dave | jc, if you're not busy you can get working on the wiimoko ;p |
| 23:14.01 | jc | dammit my internet connection is acting up on me.. |
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| 23:18.32 | orzo | hello |
| 23:18.39 | orzo | I want to turn my phone into a laptop |
| 23:18.53 | *** part/#openmoko Alinermedia (n=jaranda@201.143.102.101.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 23:18.57 | jc | Dave: wiimoko ? |
| 23:19.02 | orzo | an ac adapater, keyboard, and laptop battery |
| 23:19.15 | jc | well DNS is acting up on me, right now I'm stuck here and can't use google or anything |
| 23:19.25 | jc | does anybode know some free dns please ? |
| 23:20.18 | orzo | the laptop battery charger would be built into the keyboard and the wall outlet wire would feed into it and there'd be a male usb plug sticking up behind the keys to mount a neo on sideways |
| 23:21.01 | jc | this is weird, I can't even ping this server and yet I can see what you say |
| 23:21.35 | orzo | jc, are you talking to me? |
| 23:21.43 | emsyr | jc: what's the problem? |
| 23:21.51 | jc | oh thank god, a reply |
| 23:21.57 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p549BEEB7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:22.01 | jc | our dns servers blacked out |
| 23:22.06 | jc | but I can get to the internet |
| 23:22.15 | jc | I can't find any alternative one since I can't use google |
| 23:22.23 | jc | could you please give me some free dns address ? |
| 23:22.40 | viq | 208.67.222.222 |
| 23:22.49 | jc | viq: thank you |
| 23:22.54 | CVirus | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:23.11 | emsyr | Are you talkinh about connecting to Internet through FR? |
| 23:23.19 | jc | hey seems to work nicely, thanks a lot :) |
| 23:23.22 | jc | to both ;) |
| 23:23.42 | jc | nope, my PC, i was stuck on this irc cause I didn't have dns ;) |
| 23:24.14 | jc | I used to work for the provider we have now, really since I know how things are done there I wonder why I didn't already found some spare dns |
| 23:24.21 | viq | opendns.com, you can go and check them out now - and trust we have not given you a poisoned dns and are now trying to make you feel everything is all right ;) |
| 23:24.31 | jc | unless you can't resolve opendns.com ;) |
| 23:24.49 | viq | jc: you can now since we gave you dns addresses ;P |
| 23:24.59 | jc | don't worry I don't mind revealing what I resolve :D |
| 23:25.03 | viq | I believe also 4.2.2.2 is a publicly available dns |
| 23:25.24 | jc | if you wanted you could have easily man in the middled my wifi |
| 23:25.43 | jc | I'l switch transparently to ours once theyr online |
| 23:25.56 | viq | jc: that is not the worry. The worry is that you say entered mail.google.com, the site looks as it should... Yet you are entering your password on my site. Or same thing with your bank. Or whatever. |
| 23:26.14 | jc | yeah, I know :) |
| 23:26.18 | viq | :P |
| 23:26.37 | jc | whatever if it makes you feel better |
| 23:26.45 | jc | you could have also set up opendns too |
| 23:27.13 | jc | its not like I can lose money or anything |
| 23:27.48 | *** join/#openmoko bamccaig (n=bamccaig@dsl-66-186-95-123.vianet.ca) |
| 23:28.19 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=kdfkjdfj@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:29.30 | jc | lol |
| 23:29.51 | jc | I went to change dhcp setting when I was at it and I got totally freaked out |
| 23:30.26 | jc | I was editing dhcpd.conf and adding the dns, saved, ok, restarted dhcpd and noticed the service didn't come up |
| 23:30.53 | jc | then it was a race against time to fix it before my pc tries to get a new address |
| 23:31.25 | jc | turns out I forgot a dash to separate it |
| 23:32.47 | jc | Dave: what did you mean by 'wiimoko' ? |
| 23:33.24 | mwester | orzo: That's a great idea! If you add one of the USB/VGA adaptors, you might be able to drive an external display, such as a projector... |
| 23:33.48 | raster | ooooh the pain |
| 23:33.51 | raster | the paaain |
| 23:34.07 | raster | drive a remote framebuffer over usb1.1? |
| 23:34.10 | raster | the pain |
| 23:34.12 | raster | :) |
| 23:34.14 | mwester | raster: slow... but how much speed do you need to show some slides in a presentation? |
| 23:34.19 | jc | what about wifi ? |
| 23:34.46 | raster | mwester: i hope it has enouhg video ram to double buffer... |
| 23:34.56 | raster | otherwise you can watch it copy pixels up... sloooowly |
| 23:34.56 | raster | :) |
| 23:35.09 | mwester | knows almost nothing about the USB framebuffer devices. |
| 23:35.12 | jc | well who knows how much video ram it has |
| 23:35.15 | Digital-Pioneer | So is there a working WiFi GUI available?... Mofi doesn't seem to work, but it might be udhcpc. |
| 23:35.23 | jc | the people who have glamo datasheets, thats who |
| 23:36.30 | raster | jc: no - he's talking of a usb vga out device. not glamo |
| 23:36.34 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it, all the USB framebuffer devices require 2 |
| 23:36.34 | SpeedEvil | usb2 |
| 23:36.42 | raster | i can tell u how much video ram glamo has - 8 m |
| 23:36.51 | jc | raster: but you have to prerender it somewhere ? |
| 23:36.51 | mwester | SpeedEvil: oh. bad idea then. :( |
| 23:37.02 | raster | jc: dont need glamo for that |
| 23:37.09 | jc | raster: do you have the datasheet? :D |
| 23:37.28 | raster | SpeedEvil: shouldnt usb be downwards compatible - ie it should drop to usb1.1 speeds? |
| 23:37.39 | SpeedEvil | raster: no |
| 23:37.39 | raster | jc: for the glamo? |
| 23:37.48 | jc | of course, you get 12Mbit NRZI encoded line |
| 23:37.51 | SpeedEvil | raster: some stuff just only works at USB2 speeds |
| 23:37.59 | mwester | I'm sure raster returned all proprietary docs when he left Om. |
| 23:38.14 | SpeedEvil | raster: it would need lots of additional hardware to support 1.1 |
| 23:38.22 | jc | add to that the fuss with bus management by the host and you get a slightly lower bandwidth for your data |
| 23:38.23 | raster | mwester: oh indeed. absolutely. |
| 23:38.25 | raster | :) |
| 23:38.39 | orzo | mwester: i could use a usb/vga adapter anyway |
| 23:38.40 | SpeedEvil | raster: for example, USB-TV devices that grab a digital TV multiplex whole, and don't decode it, just pass it intact to the PC. |
| 23:38.46 | jc | if its just a simple bulk endpoint, that framebuffer device, it shouldn't be so bad actually |
| 23:38.46 | *** part/#openmoko exactt (n=max@e181139166.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:38.49 | orzo | i've been hacking on a asus wlhdd |
| 23:38.58 | raster | SpeedEvil: hmm how? if it has its own framebuffer... or doesn't it do u literlally have to drive the video out scan over usb? |
| 23:38.59 | jc | raster: yeah for the glamo :) |
| 23:39.02 | SpeedEvil | raster: this may be more than can be squeezed down a 1.1 link, as it's 10 channels. |
| 23:39.05 | orzo | and its kind of tedius without a display |
| 23:39.17 | SpeedEvil | raster: I can't say - I haven't looked into it in detail. |
| 23:39.25 | raster | SpeedEvil: oh yeah - there are some things that literally have minimum data reqs |
| 23:39.31 | mwester | orzo: But I do think it's a good idea, esp. if it could all be compact enough to slip easily into a backpack or similar carrying case. |
| 23:39.32 | raster | but a usb vga-out device.... |
| 23:39.43 | SpeedEvil | raster: The minimal amount of looking I did stopped after I couldn't found anyone saying they'd had it working on 1.1 |
| 23:39.46 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=almien@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 23:39.54 | raster | SpeedEvil: fair enough |
| 23:39.55 | jc | shame |
| 23:40.02 | orzo | mwester: so im the first person to have this idea? i was sort of hoping its been done already |
| 23:40.03 | jc | I'd love to get my hands on that :) |
| 23:40.04 | SpeedEvil | raster: also. 'it doesn't work on USB1.1' |
| 23:40.08 | raster | just for a remote vga out - as long as the device has a framebuffer and does its own scanout |
| 23:40.14 | raster | i see no reason it wouldnt work on 1.1 |
| 23:40.20 | raster | just your data uploads.. wont be... fast |
| 23:40.25 | SpeedEvil | raster: vs 'My ... isn't working properly, the picture is slow to update' |
| 23:40.37 | SpeedEvil | raster: could be the support cost alone. |
| 23:40.42 | jc | consider this |
| 23:40.49 | jc | taking a old pci vga card |
| 23:40.53 | SpeedEvil | (but I have no idea) |
| 23:41.14 | SpeedEvil | We need to reuse existing code. |
| 23:41.19 | jc | and connecting it over a full speed usb 1.1 converter |
| 23:41.19 | mwester | orzo: I dunno -- I've seen discussions on custom cables, usb hubs, and keyboards all independently, but the idea of a single peripheral that would be a keyboard, usb hub, and power source for the FR I do not recall seeing mentioned before. |
| 23:41.19 | SpeedEvil | USB->glamo |
| 23:41.24 | raster | jc: even if i still had the datasheets. i definitely cant go giving them to people. that is not just in violation of the nda whihc still applies, even thouhg i've left, but it just wrong as its a breach of trust with om. |
| 23:41.33 | mwester | orzo: it sounds like a useful thing, if it is easily constructed. |
| 23:41.46 | jc | you convert some simple operations that need to work to direct commands over usb |
| 23:41.52 | jc | like line, polygon and stuff |
| 23:41.57 | jc | so it can be transmitted fast |
| 23:42.16 | jc | this would be easi to do with avr or something |
| 23:42.23 | jc | the real question is if the bandwidth is ok |
| 23:42.36 | jc | even if you have the acceleration functions mapped to usb interrupt commands |
| 23:42.48 | jc | because screen refresh would definitely be slow |
| 23:43.00 | jc | I can get you some numbers on bulk transfer via usb 1.1 if you want |
| 23:43.15 | jc | I think its not enough for a decent framerate but if you update atomically... |
| 23:43.27 | jc | but of course, 'think' is not enough |
| 23:43.56 | SpeedEvil | jc: that's irrelevant. |
| 23:44.13 | SpeedEvil | jc: the important thing is will the available USB devices work at all on USB1.1 |
| 23:44.15 | jc | well definitely no full screen videos |
| 23:44.39 | jc | oh they already did something like that ? |
| 23:44.43 | jc | usb graphics card ? |
| 23:44.51 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 23:45.13 | jc | huh.. I see... |
| 23:45.32 | jc | well heres the issue |
| 23:45.38 | SpeedEvil | I also want bluetooth and wifi monitors |
| 23:45.44 | jc | USB 2.0 label doesn't necessarily mean the device supports usb high speed mode |
| 23:45.48 | SpeedEvil | I know. |
| 23:46.01 | SpeedEvil | However, the devices - those I've seen dumps from require high-spee dmode. |
| 23:46.04 | jc | all high speed devices initially talk over full speed |
| 23:46.06 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 23:46.12 | SpeedEvil | yeah - high speed |
| 23:46.14 | jc | so they do know both |
| 23:46.15 | jc | but |
| 23:46.24 | SpeedEvil | they will negotiate as to high speed - but they won't function |
| 23:46.26 | jc | if the device decides it will only work on full speed |
| 23:46.31 | jc | oh. high speed |
| 23:46.36 | jc | theres nothing you can do |
| 23:46.51 | SpeedEvil | They require full speed to work |
| 23:46.54 | jc | its bad design practic... |
| 23:46.56 | jc | *e |
| 23:46.59 | SpeedEvil | tries to remember the stupid naming. |
| 23:47.05 | jc | yeah its stupid |
| 23:47.13 | SpeedEvil | high is 12, full is 480? |
| 23:47.16 | jc | yeah |
| 23:47.23 | jc | no |
| 23:47.26 | jc | the other way around :D |
| 23:47.32 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 23:47.40 | jc | me too |
| 23:47.49 | Wonka | jc: 4.2.2.2, 141.1.1.1 |
| 23:48.39 | jc | way to remember that |
| 23:48.39 | Wonka | ups, seem to have hit pgup several 10mins ago |
| 23:48.39 | jc | at the time of old usb standard, you had only two speeds |
| 23:48.39 | jc | low and full |
| 23:48.39 | jc | low for like HID devices and full for stuff that requiered bandwidth |
| 23:49.07 | jc | and they juiced it up a little and added a high speed mode afterwards |
| 23:49.17 | Wonka | and now you got VGA outputs on high... quite a HID, nor? :) |
| 23:49.19 | jc | so its 'full' speed but at the time of the old standard |
| 23:49.39 | jc | it was just a simplification, I think you get it ;) |
| 23:49.57 | Wonka | that's why the smiley was ther |
| 23:50.06 | SpeedEvil | stabs USB3 |
| 23:50.11 | jc | ooooh |
| 23:50.14 | Wonka | WUSB? |
| 23:50.16 | *** part/#openmoko Pyrasi (n=dan@74-140-180-181.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 23:50.18 | jc | the new one is called SuperSpeed :D |
| 23:50.18 | SpeedEvil | Wonka: no |
| 23:50.19 | jc | lol |
| 23:50.27 | jc | 4.8Gbit/s |
| 23:50.30 | Wonka | jc: Ludicrous Speed |
| 23:50.38 | SpeedEvil | Wonka: it's got extra wires in the cable, and 2 fibres. |
| 23:50.43 | jc | wonder what they throw on us with USB 4 ;) |
| 23:50.44 | Digital-Pioneer | How do you make an icon on the home screen of SHR? |
| 23:50.50 | SpeedEvil | bets it's gonna be _fragile_. |
| 23:50.57 | Wonka | jc: two transwarp channels |
| 23:51.01 | jc | lol |
| 23:51.03 | SpeedEvil | 4 wires you can just about do. |
| 23:51.12 | jc | somebody watches too much star trek ;) |
| 23:51.15 | SpeedEvil | ~10, isn't gonna be real robust. |
| 23:51.24 | jc | Warp speed ! |
| 23:51.38 | Wonka | jc: "ludicrous speed" is not star trek :> |
| 23:51.40 | jc | yeah, new one will be Warp 1, then Warp 2 and so on :D |
| 23:51.46 | jc | transwarp is ;) |
| 23:51.47 | Wonka | Warp USB |
| 23:51.53 | jc | lol |
| 23:51.53 | Wonka | WUSB |
| 23:52.13 | mwester | spaceballs |
| 23:52.20 | jc | already I see the marketing labels |
| 23:52.24 | Wonka | they jammed our radar! |
| 23:52.27 | jc | 'approaches warp speed !' |
| 23:52.32 | jc | with enterprise on it |
| 23:52.36 | Wonka | Warp USB the flame thrower? |
| 23:52.47 | Wonka | mmmmerchandising! |
| 23:53.07 | Digital-Pioneer | Can I run Opera mini on the Freerunner? |
| 23:53.40 | jc | mwester btw. where can I find log of this channel? I can't find anything |
| 23:56.02 | jc | apt: help |
| 23:56.27 | Wonka | apt kill yourself |
| 23:56.28 | apt | ACTION shoots a hyper-charged fluxpositrino gun at yourself |
| 23:56.35 | Wonka | apt kill ubuntu |
| 23:56.36 | apt | ACTION shoots a super-inverse fluxmeson gun at ubuntu |
| 23:57.19 | jc | apt: rot13 test |
| 23:57.19 | apt | grfg |
| 23:57.22 | jc | lol |
| 23:57.44 | jc | apt: rot13 bayl gur svefg bar vf pbeerpg |
| 23:57.44 | apt | only the first one is correct |
| 23:57.49 | jc | ooh |
| 23:57.58 | raster | Digital-Pioneer: icons are from .desktop files |
| 23:58.14 | raster | the same way all apps are installed and present a file saying how to run them |
| 23:58.19 | raster | same as on desktop linux |
| 23:58.28 | raster | just make sure the cateogry is valid |
| 23:58.40 | Digital-Pioneer | raster: Never messed with them. Always used a package manager or ran it manually. :) |
| 23:58.52 | raster | time to mess |
| 23:59.11 | Digital-Pioneer | Yeah, so can I run Opera Mini or Mobile on the FR? |
| 23:59.26 | jc | minimo is pretty cool, but dunno about opera |
| 23:59.45 | jc | minimos unusable without swap though |
| 23:59.48 | Digital-Pioneer | Minimo, ehh? Is it in opkg? |
| 23:59.54 | jc | dunno... |
| 23:59.57 | Digital-Pioneer | Oh, I haven't set up swap. |
| 23:59.59 | jc | but it works |