| 00:00.48 | kd8ikt | 18:45 < Ainulindale> 00:40:25 < Ainulindale> It's the only profile for embedded devices of this kind (illume) |
| 00:00.55 | kd8ikt | ;D |
| 00:00.56 | quatrox | all the other options are just the gnome with more icons on the view port |
| 00:02.03 | quatrox | kd8ikt: the clean gnome works very well for me |
| 00:02.37 | quatrox | but the web browser has too large fonts (even when zoomed out max) |
| 00:03.31 | quatrox | anyway - I will try Illume before I say anything more |
| 00:10.53 | kd8ikt | i figure just rm /home/root/* -r and restart x |
| 00:11.26 | *** join/#openmoko datachaos (n=datachao@189.27.178.166.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 00:11.35 | kd8ikt | or just the .e folder |
| 00:13.47 | *** join/#openmoko dougt_ (n=dougt@c-69-181-65-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:16.00 | Fougner | kd8ikt: what? =D |
| 00:16.50 | *** part/#openmoko FilipLinux4BE (n=Filip@77.109.123.60) |
| 00:19.02 | *** join/#openmoko polymar_ (n=polymar@12.186.229.30) |
| 00:21.26 | *** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:23.04 | *** join/#openmoko holymoly (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 00:25.15 | kd8ikt | to change x settings/languages like on first boot |
| 00:25.22 | kd8ikt | (shr) |
| 00:28.37 | *** join/#openmoko emsyr (n=emsyr@ppp079166073254.dsl.hol.gr) |
| 00:28.58 | Fougner | kd8ikt: aha, so that's is the solution for doing a "system setup" =D |
| 00:32.54 | Fougner | Ainulindale: hmm, how can I turn on the GPS ? |
| 00:33.27 | kd8ikt | yeah reflashing would be a waste |
| 00:36.06 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@91-113-60-192.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 00:36.16 | Fougner | Ainulindale: never mind. |
| 00:37.41 | *** join/#openmoko divinebovine (n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca) |
| 00:40.03 | *** join/#openmoko aussiemale (n=gonePost@114-198-3-67.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 00:41.31 | jonkristian | Ainulindale: what was wrong with todays image? |
| 00:41.59 | *** join/#openmoko hothoofs (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 00:42.14 | *** join/#openmoko unknown_lamer (n=clinton@cpe-024-211-230-216.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:42.32 | Ainulindale | jonkristian: I borked a lot of things trying to fix the build process |
| 00:43.10 | jonkristian | Ok, but the latest should work now? |
| 00:43.44 | Ainulindale | Yes |
| 00:44.22 | jonkristian | Ok, cool, i want to try and get wireless working, i've never gotten it to work before, but im testing a new wireless ap without encryption for the time being. |
| 00:44.52 | Ainulindale | Ok then |
| 00:48.23 | Fougner | Ainulindale: wireless should work just by activating and connect via GUI? |
| 00:48.25 | *** join/#openmoko Proton23 (n=proton@p57BA7CED.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:48.43 | *** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@p5B149414.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:48.47 | Ainulindale | I don't know, I don't use it |
| 00:52.10 | *** part/#openmoko Proton23 (n=proton@p57BA7CED.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:53.52 | *** join/#openmoko peelooo (n=peeloo@AToulouse-152-1-95-217.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 00:54.09 | jonkristian | Fougner: the gui has a tendency to hang for a loooong time |
| 00:54.49 | Ainulindale | Complain to the mofi guys =) |
| 00:55.21 | jonkristian | Maybe there are better alternatives? |
| 00:55.43 | *** join/#openmoko Proton23 (n=proton@p57BA7CED.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:56.40 | *** join/#openmoko bernt (n=bernt@dslb-084-061-112-055.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 00:58.29 | Fougner | yeah, Ainulindale how do I connect not using GUI? |
| 00:59.40 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@189-39-157-98.gru.flash.tv.br) |
| 01:01.29 | viq | ifup/ifdown and wpa_supplicant ? |
| 01:02.18 | *** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD47108.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:03.58 | jonkristian | Fougner: iwconfig and udhcpc or ifconfig if you need static |
| 01:04.11 | CIA-51 | openmoko: 03werner * r4811 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches-tracking/hif-fix-suspend.patch: Backup, before changing in_suspend to a mutex. |
| 01:07.13 | *** join/#openmoko chouchen (n=chatzill@125.115.2.2) |
| 01:07.55 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@124-170-172-117.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:09.07 | *** join/#openmoko u_l-lap (n=clinton@cpe-024-211-230-216.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 01:14.22 | CIA-51 | openmoko: 03werner * r4812 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches-tracking/README: Make it clear that this isn't the place to look for useful code. |
| 01:23.52 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-236-201.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 01:24.46 | *** join/#openmoko DieMumie1 (n=DieMumie@W3788.w.pppool.de) |
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| 01:46.19 | *** part/#openmoko emsyr (n=emsyr@ppp079166073254.dsl.hol.gr) |
| 01:56.52 | *** join/#openmoko slchen (n=slchen@122-116-241-177.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 02:14.42 | kd8ikt | heh werner |
| 02:23.19 | *** join/#openmoko lysanderslair (n=jeff@bas5-london14-1088884034.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:42.53 | *** join/#openmoko Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) |
| 02:44.51 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 03:13.30 | *** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=matic@BSN-95-236-51.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
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| 03:28.54 | CIA-51 | openmoko: 03werner * r4813 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches-tracking/debug-gta02-trigger.patch: Added description. |
| 03:29.55 | *** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i577B6460.versanet.de) |
| 03:42.04 | CIA-51 | openmoko: 03werner * r4814 10/developers/werner/ahrt/host/tmc/ (lib/dxplore.py lib/scope.py setup.py): (log message trimmed) |
| 03:42.04 | CIA-51 | openmoko: Highlights: |
| 03:42.04 | CIA-51 | openmoko: - increase delay to improve reliability of communication with DS1000 |
| 03:42.04 | CIA-51 | openmoko: - some bug fixes |
| 03:42.04 | CIA-51 | openmoko: Details: |
| 03:42.06 | CIA-51 | openmoko: - setup.py: forgot to install phosphor.py |
| 03:42.10 | CIA-51 | openmoko: - lib/scope.py: increase pause after commands from 100ms to 300ms :-( |
| 03:42.51 | *** join/#openmoko weihsiu (n=walter@220-134-133-103.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 03:51.58 | kd8ikt | ew my bellybutton smellz |
| 03:55.53 | CIA-51 | openmoko: 03werner * r4815 10/developers/werner/wlan-resume/ (. trigger vds.py): Backup my WLAN resume debugging environment. |
| 03:56.56 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 04:26.36 | *** join/#openmoko netx (n=rlange@horus.darkempire.org) |
| 04:36.58 | slaxxin | hey jonkristrinson your off the coast of africa |
| 04:41.16 | *** join/#openmoko phobie (i=phobof@momo.das-netzwerkteam.de) |
| 04:41.49 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 04:57.19 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178018059.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 05:01.31 | slaxxin | http://www.hackable1.org/ |
| 05:01.46 | slaxxin | anybody did it yet? |
| 05:04.20 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:09.37 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 05:18.07 | slaxxin | The first beta version is ready. Still a work-in-progress and rough around the corners but it is installable in five minutes from the tar balls, boots up, can make and receive phone calls and has working GPS. |
| 05:18.10 | slaxxin | wham |
| 05:22.45 | kd8ikt | what the hell ayre you talkin about |
| 05:24.05 | pjz | slaxxin: but.. does it suspend and resume? |
| 05:24.21 | slaxxin | parlez vous francais>? |
| 05:25.27 | slaxxin | pjz can qualify for ? # 1 |
| 05:26.06 | slaxxin | since no questions have been posted at the site yet |
| 05:26.13 | pjz | slaxxin: also: I don't see a call log, which is quite handy when most contact apps suck |
| 05:26.34 | kd8ikt | yeah i had to do a logread to see who's call i missed |
| 05:26.34 | slaxxin | does the call log on shr work? |
| 05:26.43 | kd8ikt | nope |
| 05:27.03 | pjz | heck if I know; I use qtopia |
| 05:27.11 | slaxxin | it does on 2008.9 though |
| 05:27.17 | kd8ikt | does logread |grep Status count as a call log app? |
| 05:29.59 | slaxxin | is there an upgrade on shr from yesterday to today? |
| 05:30.40 | *** join/#openmoko rawtatoor (n=rawtatoo@c-67-163-214-238.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 05:33.20 | kd8ikt | the latest dunno how usable it is |
| 05:33.39 | slaxxin | mostly works |
| 05:33.53 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:34.04 | kd8ikt | tangogps? |
| 05:34.11 | slaxxin | gps works good |
| 05:35.39 | slaxxin | had i instance of the phone calling my friend but i was unable to talk or hear even though the call went through an i heard the ring in the earpiece |
| 05:36.14 | slaxxin | maybe the phone connection but i dought it |
| 05:36.53 | slaxxin | that hackable 1 site may be worth a try i bet it develops rather quickly |
| 05:37.48 | slaxxin | i got a couple spare 4gig microsds laying around |
| 05:38.13 | slaxxin | so did u try to setup armdslack yet? |
| 05:40.23 | kd8ikt | i've gone through like 3 uSD cards and they all fail |
| 05:40.31 | kd8ikt | dunno wf is up with tha |
| 05:40.40 | kd8ikt | i blame the glamo and om |
| 05:43.07 | kd8ikt | tried lowering the clk.. nodice |
| 05:43.36 | kd8ikt | buffer errors / general io errors after 1GB (4gb card) |
| 05:44.05 | kd8ikt | so now i'm using a 4GB uSD card with 2 512 partition :P |
| 05:44.24 | slaxxin | yay |
| 05:44.53 | slaxxin | might just be the partition table funky |
| 05:45.13 | slaxxin | i use kingston |
| 05:45.36 | slaxxin | maybe class 4 idk |
| 05:45.41 | kd8ikt | class 6 |
| 05:47.41 | slaxxin | mine are c4 |
| 05:47.57 | kd8ikt | so you saying i should get a class4 |
| 05:48.32 | slaxxin | no |
| 05:49.01 | slaxxin | im saying maybe buy name brand memory |
| 05:49.36 | mwester | exit |
| 05:49.48 | mwester | sigh. Wrong command. |
| 05:50.03 | slaxxin | mwester is class 6 sdcard ok for us? |
| 05:50.26 | slaxxin | orare there issues |
| 05:50.28 | kd8ikt | cause i've been having wicked troubles with mine |
| 05:50.29 | mwester | dunno. there are a lot of variables. |
| 05:50.56 | slaxxin | freerunners with debian on card |
| 05:51.14 | mwester | Well, it would be a kernel or u-boot (or qi) issue |
| 05:51.17 | mwester | not userspace |
| 05:51.24 | slaxxin | the class 6 has higher transfer rates i would guess? |
| 05:51.29 | kd8ikt | yea |
| 05:51.32 | kd8ikt | the highest |
| 05:51.35 | kd8ikt | class |
| 05:51.35 | mwester | Theoretcially |
| 05:51.44 | mwester | there's a latency problem |
| 05:51.53 | slaxxin | y or higher compression? |
| 05:52.00 | kd8ikt | well not with a gta02 ;) (fast transfer rates) |
| 05:52.04 | mwester | A rough analogy is like a disk drive |
| 05:52.04 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:52.13 | mwester | you have transfer rate, but you also have seek time. |
| 05:52.25 | kd8ikt | mwester: if it helps anything past 1GB io error |
| 05:52.49 | mwester | So a high-speed card can transfer data fast, but it might take a while to get the first dtaa block. |
| 05:52.56 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:53.05 | mwester | This is a problem with sd controllers because they have timers. |
| 05:53.27 | kd8ikt | i tried that lower clk u-boot hack and no dice |
| 05:53.30 | mwester | If you crank up the clock (to move data faster), then the timer counts faster too -- leaving you with less time for the card to respond in. |
| 05:53.33 | slaxxin | keep things tight? |
| 05:54.13 | mwester | So the "hack" a lot of drivers (not just the glamo) do is to slow the clock waaaaay down until the card reports data ready, then crank it back up. |
| 05:54.27 | mwester | It seems that there are other factors with some of the SDHC cards and timing. |
| 05:55.06 | mwester | I am suspecting that perhaps one needs to accomodate requests into the second half of the card (for example) differently than the first half. |
| 05:55.25 | mwester | of course, name-brand (read sandisk) cards don't usually have such issues. |
| 05:55.42 | *** join/#openmoko Toriku1 (n=rusher@astound-69-42-18-131.ca.astound.net) |
| 05:56.05 | Toriku1 | http://rusher.webhop.org/wordpress/?p=246 <--WANT TO PORT THAT TO THE FREE RUNNER |
| 05:56.18 | mwester | but being a skeptical sort, I can imagine some fly-by-night sd mfgr building a card with fast access and low latency to the first GB (so that it does well in any simple tests), and go cheaper flash for the rest of it... |
| 05:56.33 | kd8ikt | wish i knew this cards manufacturer all i know is its been branded by the computer stores name |
| 05:56.40 | kd8ikt | (microcenter) |
| 05:56.59 | kd8ikt | but hey my lil cousin bought it for me for 12$ |
| 05:57.04 | slaxxin | yea just take it back |
| 05:57.04 | mwester | kd8ikt: you can get the card's id info -- I think u-boot prints it when it tries to boot from it. |
| 05:57.19 | mwester | $12 for a 4GB sdhc micro? |
| 05:57.21 | mwester | :D |
| 05:57.54 | mwester | Another thing you should know is some real bad practice common on eBay. |
| 05:58.12 | slaxxin | i bought 2 class 4 kingston cards for 27 dollars delivered |
| 05:58.25 | kd8ikt | not kingstons? |
| 05:58.32 | kd8ikt | bait and swithc? |
| 05:59.12 | slaxxin | each came with 2 adapters |
| 05:59.24 | mwester | Many flash devices are the same, they just program them based on what parts of the flash work. So a 1GB flash device may be identical to an 8GB device -- except that it failed QA on 7GB. So they program it with info on what parts work, and what doesn't, label it and sell it as a 1GB unit. That's all good. |
| 05:59.47 | kd8ikt | heh |
| 05:59.50 | mwester | The evil part is that there are companies that (it is claimed) reprogram these 1GB units. |
| 06:00.06 | mwester | They reset them to the full (i.e. bad) capacity and sell them. |
| 06:00.25 | slaxxin | yea an sell to these comp shops as store branded |
| 06:00.47 | kd8ikt | manufacture 0xb1 OEM "SM" productname 000000, revision 1.0 |
| 06:01.23 | mwester | kd8ikt: heh! not very informative. but hey, I'd open a bug on it with openmoko. |
| 06:01.25 | slaxxin | so but kingston not sandisk |
| 06:01.45 | *** part/#openmoko Toriku1 (n=rusher@astound-69-42-18-131.ca.astound.net) |
| 06:01.45 | mwester | Kingston are good too - name brand as well. |
| 06:01.59 | kd8ikt | SD 2.0 yeah the zero's could be from me doing a dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk0 |
| 06:02.10 | mwester | has a few no-name ones that work well, but all very small. |
| 06:02.44 | slaxxin | mwester if the partition table is just messed -- how would we fix that |
| 06:03.14 | mwester | Let Andy or Werner go shopping for a stack of el-cheapo units; I think the glamo can do better than it does, even if it has to slow down a bit. At least if there's a bug open then others are aware that they should pay attention to the wiki page on ones that work. |
| 06:03.23 | slaxxin | i think a class 4 is fast enough |
| 06:03.33 | mwester | partitoin table? Just fdisk it. |
| 06:04.26 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:04.39 | mwester | Max speed from the glamo is like 16MB/sec or less. |
| 06:05.17 | mwester | you're wasting money on class 6, and you might find that class 2 is no different in practice from class 4 |
| 06:05.24 | slaxxin | i have a pny sdcard 2 gig that works well |
| 06:05.42 | kd8ikt | i didnt notice it was class6 till i got home |
| 06:05.55 | kd8ikt | one of those at the register deals ;) |
| 06:06.07 | kd8ikt | i was looking at the GB's |
| 06:06.24 | slaxxin | i dont know if the class 6 is a problem or not |
| 06:06.56 | kd8ikt | i did backup the original mbr and some before i did my partition playing |
| 06:07.05 | kd8ikt | maybe i should hexdump it |
| 06:10.21 | kd8ikt | its just damn depressing |
| 06:10.26 | *** join/#openmoko Big-Pat (n=Big-Pat@c-24-118-242-237.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 06:10.46 | mwester | open a ticket. |
| 06:11.15 | mwester | btw, have you tested it thoroughly on a host system? |
| 06:11.21 | mwester | (bonnie++) |
| 06:11.44 | slaxxin | hackable1 is 340 megs;(( |
| 06:11.58 | slaxxin | owell |
| 06:12.21 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:12.27 | kd8ikt | well... i dont reallt have anything else besides the phone that can read uSD or regular SD cards |
| 06:12.51 | mwester | *thump* /me falls out of his chair |
| 06:13.30 | slaxxin | ausb dongle card reader can be purchased |
| 06:13.38 | mwester | OfficeDepot here has a little USB/SD adaptor (noname) for < $6 |
| 06:13.49 | slaxxin | yay |
| 06:14.07 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.196.215.192) |
| 06:14.21 | kd8ikt | :P |
| 06:15.15 | slaxxin | i would take those off brand memories an return them an get a reader an a name brand microsd c4 |
| 06:18.14 | *** join/#openmoko peter__b (n=peter_b@p5497948D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:19.04 | kd8ikt | ok but when that namebrand wont work for me i'm gonna come back here and tear you a new ass |
| 06:19.12 | kd8ikt | :D |
| 06:20.52 | SpeedEvil | kd8ikt: have you tried reverting the GPS patch? |
| 06:20.59 | *** join/#openmoko mndar (n=mandar@210.18.172.204) |
| 06:21.05 | SpeedEvil | kd8ikt: or turning the drive strength up |
| 06:21.18 | kd8ikt | those are some good idears |
| 06:21.32 | kd8ikt | btw wtf is drive strength |
| 06:21.46 | SpeedEvil | Think of it like a spring. |
| 06:22.05 | mndar | i want considering buying a freerunner. When do u think GTA03 will be released. there have been forum posts saying that it might be released in Dec 08. is that true? |
| 06:22.08 | SpeedEvil | The ideal waveform from the pin goes straight up or down in a squarewave like _-_-_- |
| 06:22.16 | SpeedEvil | mndar: absolutely noy |
| 06:22.18 | SpeedEvil | mndar: absolutely not |
| 06:22.45 | SpeedEvil | kd8ikt: the drive strenght is what strength of spring is used to pull it up or down. |
| 06:22.50 | kd8ikt | so would strength be slower and more pronounced? or the other way ---____---- |
| 06:23.00 | mndar | SpeedEvil: so when is it likely to be released ? |
| 06:23.06 | SpeedEvil | kd8ikt: the edges with an infinitely strong spring would take no time, and emit infinite RFI. |
| 06:23.31 | SpeedEvil | kd8ikt: as you reduce the drive strength, it takes longer and longer to get to the end voltage, and emits less RFI on the way |
| 06:23.50 | kd8ikt | hey less RFI is always good ;) |
| 06:24.00 | SpeedEvil | mndar: given that at the moment the hardware design isn't really finished, and there aren't even any cased prototypes, I'd be surprised at 6 months |
| 06:24.10 | mndar | k |
| 06:24.24 | kd8ikt | nah i read something about some test gta03 boards |
| 06:24.38 | SpeedEvil | kd8ikt: not factory ready by any means. |
| 06:24.41 | kd8ikt | they are playing with the foresight team |
| 06:24.53 | kd8ikt | oh ofcourse |
| 06:24.53 | *** part/#openmoko rawtatoor (n=rawtatoo@c-67-163-214-238.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 06:27.19 | slaxxin | what about a shielding cocer of some sort |
| 06:27.32 | slaxxin | cover* |
| 06:27.56 | slaxxin | to stop the rfi |
| 06:28.09 | slaxxin | a can |
| 06:28.24 | kd8ikt | oh i kinda laughed at joergs hack for openening/releasing the sd card |
| 06:28.28 | mwester | very difficult, as the part that needs to be shielded is not really the SD card... it's those long wires on the connector. |
| 06:28.38 | slaxxin | thats what the iphope did |
| 06:29.13 | slaxxin | connector to the sdcard? |
| 06:29.14 | kd8ikt | cause lets see you take your sim out you need to release the sd card? hmm what do you have that can slip inbetween the cracks and release the sd card?!?! |
| 06:29.23 | kd8ikt | THE SIM CARD! |
| 06:29.26 | DocScrutinizer | kd8ikt: actually n new shipments for this component the manufacturer "stole" my idea ;-) |
| 06:29.37 | kd8ikt | perfect width to shim the SD out |
| 06:30.00 | kd8ikt | the tape pull tab? |
| 06:30.21 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 06:30.25 | kd8ikt | joerg is that you? |
| 06:30.31 | DocScrutinizer | printed "PULL" on it :-D |
| 06:30.32 | slaxxin | pocket knife? |
| 06:30.46 | DocScrutinizer | ~joerg |
| 06:30.47 | apt | extra, extra, read all about it, joerg is a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer |
| 06:30.56 | slaxxin | yay |
| 06:31.07 | kd8ikt | seriously though a sim card already in you hand works great at leveraging the SD card out |
| 06:31.38 | kd8ikt | heh |
| 06:32.03 | kd8ikt | but to retract that is a great OEM problem solve of the sdcard removal |
| 06:32.39 | kd8ikt | but mines more mcgyver |
| 06:32.57 | SpeedEvil | kd8ikt: tantalum cap behind the card, reverse polarised to eject the card. |
| 06:33.12 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 06:33.22 | DocScrutinizer | works once |
| 06:33.32 | DocScrutinizer | though very cute |
| 06:34.03 | SpeedEvil | ejection is a bitch. |
| 06:34.08 | mwester | has anyone noticed how bleedin' difficult it is to find those uSD cards when you drop them under your desk? |
| 06:34.25 | SpeedEvil | is currently pondering ejectable SD, or glued down with conductive glue SD. |
| 06:34.33 | slaxxin | doc will the gta03 have an different access to the sdcard? |
| 06:34.39 | SpeedEvil | (for production) |
| 06:34.46 | kd8ikt | heh i had one fly out and land inside my shoe |
| 06:34.52 | SpeedEvil | Nice ejectors on the SD cost. |
| 06:35.10 | SpeedEvil | Volume, weight, dollars, mechanical problems. |
| 06:35.20 | mwester | wants a scheme like the N800 -- one uSD captive (for rootfs and boot), and one SD or uSD externally accessable. |
| 06:35.33 | slaxxin | yup |
| 06:35.46 | kd8ikt | swap out your mp3 collection |
| 06:35.53 | SpeedEvil | Are you willing to pay $4 extra on a removable microSD? |
| 06:36.06 | kd8ikt | here's my 4$ |
| 06:36.08 | slaxxin | yes we are |
| 06:36.56 | kd8ikt | and a 4$ tip |
| 06:36.57 | SpeedEvil | And are you willing to raise the price of the whole phone for everyone by that? |
| 06:37.12 | kd8ikt | if you build it they will come |
| 06:37.14 | mwester | SpeedEvil: depends on total cost of the device of course -- but given that a 2GB uSD is probably < $1 for an OEM, the ejector is a big cost. |
| 06:37.34 | slaxxin | ahhh as we go along theres going to be improvments like this |
| 06:38.00 | kd8ikt | will it even toast my bread? (GTA03) |
| 06:38.38 | slaxxin | camers built into the screen |
| 06:38.53 | mwester | Generally there are some early engineering prototypes that can toast your bread ;) |
| 06:38.53 | slaxxin | card scanner |
| 06:38.58 | SpeedEvil | You can't build a camera into the screen. |
| 06:39.14 | slaxxin | cant never did anything |
| 06:39.15 | kd8ikt | card reader (mag stripe) |
| 06:39.17 | SpeedEvil | At least - at any cost. |
| 06:39.48 | kd8ikt | i like that theres heavy talk about using a gyro |
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| 06:39.54 | SpeedEvil | And every little thing you add adds $1-$100, and at some point... |
| 06:40.03 | slaxxin | 3000 dollar openmoko ;) |
| 06:40.08 | SpeedEvil | If I was involved with it, I'd be vetoing the gryo. |
| 06:40.15 | SpeedEvil | I really, really want a gyro. |
| 06:40.31 | slaxxin | why veto then? |
| 06:40.31 | SpeedEvil | But, it costs - for 3 axis, at least $15. |
| 06:40.31 | kd8ikt | muwahaha /me begins designing a rocket to go to the moon using the moko at its heart |
| 06:40.45 | SpeedEvil | Which means you need to put $30 on the price really. |
| 06:40.58 | mwester | shakes his head... he just wants his openmoko to make a phone call reliably. |
| 06:40.59 | SpeedEvil | And the software to exploit the existing hardware isn't there yet. |
| 06:41.27 | kd8ikt | but so help me god every lil nook and cranny better have full docs and fully open no smedia BS |
| 06:41.30 | SpeedEvil | Adding a gyro - when any software to exploit the accellerometer isn't there yet - is insane. |
| 06:42.07 | SpeedEvil | s/accellerometer/GSM module/ |
| 06:42.09 | slaxxin | H E L P !!!! |
| 06:43.44 | kd8ikt | i kinda want to make an R/C plane/drone that fly's without user intervention using the om |
| 06:44.17 | kd8ikt | UAV? is that what there called? |
| 06:44.22 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 06:44.40 | SpeedEvil | diydrones.com |
| 06:44.40 | kd8ikt | nowonder our battery life sucks the big one |
| 06:44.56 | kd8ikt | theres a kitchen sink inside this phone |
| 06:45.54 | kd8ikt | so joerg then tell me, is there anyone messing with the glamo stuff |
| 06:46.08 | kd8ikt | atleast producing some opendocs? |
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| 06:47.01 | kd8ikt | i heard raster say something about opengl ES is sorta possible but with pitfalls |
| 06:47.40 | kd8ikt | almost like everyone is shrugging off further hassles of messing with this infernal chip |
| 06:49.34 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 06:49.39 | SpeedEvil | Focussing on the wrong crap. |
| 06:49.46 | SpeedEvil | Which would you rather have. |
| 06:49.58 | SpeedEvil | A phone that has slick animations of broken interfaces. |
| 06:50.10 | SpeedEvil | Or one that has slightly choppy animations of working interfaces? |
| 06:50.26 | DocScrutinizer | kd8ikt: don't ask me glamo things. I can tell for sure there's no glamo in GTA03 |
| 06:50.48 | kd8ikt | well its the one thing i/we/thepeople dont have any power over at all |
| 06:50.59 | SpeedEvil | has a soldering iron! |
| 06:51.12 | SpeedEvil | (though ripping out the glamo would be ... problematic) |
| 06:51.35 | kd8ikt | so no1 at om is touching the glamo? |
| 06:52.13 | SpeedEvil | so no1 at om is touching the hammerhead GPS chip? |
| 06:52.22 | kd8ikt | for all i know the SD card issues i'm having is the glamo-mc crap |
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| 06:55.42 | kd8ikt | cause i probably wont stop bitchin about it till i see a torrent on demonoid with every possible doc about some unheard of smedia glamo 3362 |
| 06:56.00 | kd8ikt | ;D |
| 06:56.49 | kd8ikt | ROFL |
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| 07:29.21 | kd8ikt | ew the silent treatment |
| 07:29.35 | kd8ikt | :P |
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| 10:01.09 | samgee | is anybody able to start navit on shr? |
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| 10:03.59 | samgee | I got rid of some of the errors by fiddling with navit.xml |
| 10:04.03 | samgee | now I get: |
| 10:04.09 | samgee | navit:convert_to_attrs:failed to create attribute 'icons_xs' with value '60' |
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| 10:05.16 | quatrox1 | why is the value 60? |
| 10:05.23 | quatrox1 | icons are 64 |
| 10:05.48 | samgee | I don't know what the value means |
| 10:05.54 | samgee | I just uncommented it |
| 10:07.09 | samgee | hm, changing it to 64 gives me the same error |
| 10:07.50 | quatrox1 | can you strace it? |
| 10:08.03 | samgee | ah, removing the attribute got rid of the error |
| 10:08.21 | samgee | next error is: |
| 10:08.23 | samgee | navit:vehicle_new:invalid type 'gpsd' |
| 10:09.14 | tef | samgee, for the moment is not a good idea to use navit on shr. Ainulindale say that cause actually some problems. (and i'm not able to start navit too :s) sorry for my english :p |
| 10:10.22 | samgee | tef, are those problems documented somewhere? |
| 10:11.03 | samgee | strace doesn't give me any new information |
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| 11:57.25 | sakkara | haha LOLm very good the om-jokes :o) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Jokes |
| 11:58.02 | DocScrutinizer | actually copied from from ML I'd guess |
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| 12:12.38 | Kero | The one with the photographer is stale, there are no images to flash, these days... |
| 12:12.56 | Kero | is sad |
| 12:16.45 | bumbl | raster: ping |
| 12:17.15 | bumbl | Kero: shr |
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| 12:28.17 | DocScrutinizer | hi everyone! could you please check http://downloads.openmoko.org/schematics/debugboards/OpenMoKo_Debug_Board_V3_MP.pdf for sufficient permissions etc? can you read? thanks! |
| 12:29.49 | dns53 | it downloaded fine |
| 12:29.50 | DocScrutinizer | s/can you/you can/ |
| 12:30.05 | DocScrutinizer | dns53: thanks! :-) |
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| 12:37.20 | SpeedEvil | wokrs hwer |
| 12:37.31 | SpeedEvil | Though that download broke my keyboard :) |
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| 12:39.22 | walkie | is it known problem what om2008.9 have no sound from loud speaker, only from headphones, please help me |
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| 13:12.30 | Zorkman | anyone using navit or something else for routing and navigating? |
| 13:14.03 | quatrox | Zorkman: do you get errors? |
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| 13:17.05 | dns53 | navit works great |
| 13:17.37 | bumbl | dns53: does it? |
| 13:18.52 | quatrox | dns53: It will not work in SHR yet |
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| 13:22.04 | dns53 | in 2008.9 it works fine for me |
| 13:22.47 | quatrox | :) |
| 13:23.17 | walkie | sorry for repeating, is it known problem what om2008.9 have no sound from loud speaker, only from headphones, please help me |
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| 13:24.15 | lindi- | walkie: restore strereout.state? |
| 13:24.51 | walkie | tried restore every .state |
| 13:25.01 | walkie | no result |
| 13:26.20 | Zorkman | too bad :(, i'm using shr |
| 13:26.27 | walkie | it is fresh install of om2008.9 - no ring sound after first boot, but when headphones connected ring sound is heard |
| 13:27.08 | walkie | in factory image on this phone ring sound is ok trough loud speaker |
| 13:27.58 | lindi- | walkie: you hear sounds from headphones even when state matches stereout.state? |
| 13:28.04 | Tig| | I have just installed one of the testing images of SHR and I am stunned :) I am seriously impressed :) |
| 13:28.45 | *** join/#openmoko Fougner (n=alex@81-234-228-127-no32.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:29.19 | Zorkman | dns53: which maps do you use for navit? |
| 13:30.04 | dns53 | the ones from cloudmade |
| 13:30.12 | dns53 | osm data |
| 13:30.29 | Fougner | oh, Navit ? =D |
| 13:30.42 | Zorkman | myeah... osm won't cut it where I live... |
| 13:30.54 | dns53 | then fix osm |
| 13:31.35 | walkie | lindi-, when i restore stereoout.state i hear right earphone and no sound when headphones disconnected |
| 13:35.21 | *** join/#openmoko joezeewa1ls (n=bob@e181042058.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:36.27 | *** join/#openmoko shyam_k (n=user@117.196.137.73) |
| 13:37.51 | shyam_k | hi all, my first mobile after getting a job would certainly be openmoko, but yet to leave the academic pupa, which would be the best low-end mobile thts close towards the concept of a free phone? |
| 13:38.07 | SpeedEvil | there isn't. |
| 13:38.15 | SpeedEvil | nokia 3330. Damn near free. |
| 13:38.36 | shyam_k | may be after some more years when symbian becomes free? |
| 13:38.38 | shyam_k | :) |
| 13:39.32 | Ke | isn't it already? |
| 13:39.40 | shyam_k | declared..but.. |
| 13:40.02 | *** join/#openmoko elserpiente (n=_@213.186.103.1.utel.net.ua) |
| 13:40.23 | Ke | just releasing the source code doesn't make it any better |
| 13:40.44 | shyam_k | hmm.. |
| 13:41.00 | SpeedEvil | You can get windows source code. |
| 13:41.15 | SpeedEvil | Through some program I forget the name of. |
| 13:41.27 | shyam_k | ic.. |
| 13:41.39 | Ke | but that is not probably legal? |
| 13:42.03 | SpeedEvil | There is open-source. Then there is the ability to edit that source and recompile to a working object that you can distribute legally. |
| 13:42.08 | SpeedEvil | and there is stuff in between. |
| 13:42.13 | SpeedEvil | Ke: legally even. |
| 13:42.38 | Ohmu | what's the state of the OM software? in a nutshell? what works and what doesn't? |
| 13:42.43 | SpeedEvil | Ke: Maybe that's changed. |
| 13:43.06 | SpeedEvil | There are >5 basic software stacks. |
| 13:43.19 | Zorkman | can anyone still acces google sattelite maps or google topographic maps with tango gps? |
| 13:43.27 | SpeedEvil | None of which is in the state remotely where you'd consider giving it to someone that's not a geek. |
| 13:43.29 | Ke | I would think that Open release of windows XP/Vista source code would have gotten very much publicity |
| 13:43.47 | SpeedEvil | Ke: it's only if you're a _big_ customer IIRC. |
| 13:43.54 | Ohmu | SpeedEvil, I'd say the same for Linux, only 30 not 5 |
| 13:44.13 | SpeedEvil | Ohmu: the problem is somewhat different. |
| 13:44.27 | SpeedEvil | Ohmu: for a phone, you need a suite of applications that look and work the same. |
| 13:44.55 | SpeedEvil | Ohmu: you need them all to play together, so you can take a call while writing an SMS, and it'll just work. |
| 13:45.14 | Ohmu | SpeedEvil, so is the problem in user-space code? are all 5 stacks building off the same kernel? |
| 13:45.19 | SpeedEvil | Ohmu: and you need all of the applications to talk to the backend in a consistent way. |
| 13:45.24 | SpeedEvil | Ohmu: pretty much. |
| 13:45.27 | shyam_k | Ohmu: haai!:) |
| 13:45.39 | Ohmu | hey there bud :) |
| 13:45.58 | SpeedEvil | Ohmu: for the limited case where no suspending at all is done, the kernel mostly works. |
| 13:46.14 | Ohmu | shyam_k, I'm in India again. Ill PM you now. |
| 13:46.38 | SpeedEvil | Ohmu: for the neo1973 it's quite stable, or at least some versions are. Some people with FR hardware have problems. |
| 13:47.02 | shyam_k | lost his nokia 1100 in an auto and now searching for a good mobile which is half the price of neo freerunner.. |
| 13:47.13 | shyam_k | Ohmu: oh cool! |
| 13:47.30 | SpeedEvil | Oh - and it's also not got to slow down beyond half a second or so UI or so between button presses, and ... |
| 13:49.06 | Ohmu | SpeedEvil, that always mystifies me. why on earth in a multitasking OS, nobody seems able to provide consistent spontaneous UI response |
| 13:49.18 | SpeedEvil | It's 'trivial' to make a software stack that works with a pointer and looks like a linux desktop. |
| 13:49.44 | shyam_k | which mobile would you people advice for half the price of freerunner? |
| 13:49.46 | SpeedEvil | And you bring up the phone app via a menu, and kill it before you use the internet, ... |
| 13:50.01 | SpeedEvil | shyam_k: I can offer a cut-down freerunner for 1/2 price. |
| 13:50.12 | SpeedEvil | has a bandsaw! |
| 13:50.17 | SpeedEvil | shyam_k: do you want left or right? |
| 13:50.33 | Ohmu | shyam_k, I always get another 3310 :p |
| 13:50.36 | shyam_k | i left.. |
| 13:50.48 | shyam_k | :) |
| 13:51.12 | Ke | SpeedEvil: nota that selling the other part for half the price will reduce the value of the other half! |
| 13:51.46 | shyam_k | may be wait till i get fund for openmoko and till then "stallman ki jai, go away big brother, you cant catch me"!!!!:) |
| 13:53.09 | Ohmu | SpeedEvil, any ideas as to what's the fundamental problem? is it apps being coded ruthlessly inconsiderate to their neighbours? Is it absence of some interprocess framework? or failure to separate UI threads fromworker threads? |
| 13:54.08 | Ke | shyam_k: openmoko is not good enough for stallman |
| 13:54.22 | Ke | well probably |
| 13:56.13 | Fougner | can someone here recommend adapter from 2.5mm FR jack to normal 3.5mm stereo? =D |
| 13:56.53 | Ke | gold plated and vacuum insulated? |
| 13:57.09 | Ke | isn't it just a piece of metal |
| 13:57.56 | Fougner | haha, what in the hell would the vacuum insulation do? =D |
| 13:58.12 | Fougner | GAAH, Starling audio player isn't stable =P |
| 13:58.38 | *** join/#openmoko mr_nice (n=nice@77.21.130.13) |
| 14:00.28 | SpeedEvil | Ohmu: my personal view is that it's poor managment of the community, and changing targets. |
| 14:01.01 | *** join/#openmoko shyam_k` (n=user@117.196.135.109) |
| 14:01.07 | SpeedEvil | Ohmu: new software stacks and applications have in the past 'just appeared' with little details as to what's upcoming. |
| 14:01.09 | *** join/#openmoko Isajha (n=Isajha4@wrzb-d933dc4c.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 14:01.52 | SpeedEvil | Ohmu: this obviously causes problems for people who were considering developing stuff. That and the lack of a big list of stuff which OM is _not_ doing. So people don't assume that it is. |
| 14:03.12 | SpeedEvil | (and not work on whatever) |
| 14:03.18 | *** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net) |
| 14:04.13 | Ke | just get the base stable enough and community will do the rest |
| 14:05.13 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-088-065-100-071.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:05.29 | Ohmu | SpeedEvil, I guess this is the swings & roundabouts of community driven projects vs top down coroporate driven stuff |
| 14:05.56 | SpeedEvil | Ohmu: There seems to be a cultural problem somewhere, certainly. |
| 14:06.47 | Ohmu | Ke, but what is that base? a kernel? an API? would it stipulate interprocess standards, UI conformance, ... ? |
| 14:06.51 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@host81-153-16-228.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:08.03 | *** join/#openmoko elserpiente_ (n=_@213.186.110.127.utel.net.ua) |
| 14:08.05 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, the kernel is broken. |
| 14:08.20 | SpeedEvil | Suspend doesn't work properly. |
| 14:08.35 | SpeedEvil | Those are really quite fundamental issues. |
| 14:08.38 | mwester | It almost doesn't matter what the base is initially defined to be; in a well-managed community project the expanding of the base from just kernel apis to (for example) a framework would be natural. In the case of Om, it has splintered. |
| 14:08.59 | mwester | But to start with base kernel functionality would be nice. |
| 14:09.39 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 14:11.41 | Tig| | has anyone had any experiences with bluetooth keybp |
| 14:11.54 | Tig| | has anyone had any experiences with bluetooth keyboards and SHR ? |
| 14:12.01 | Tig| | blasted enter key |
| 14:12.35 | Tig| | I did a hidd --search and it connected to it but then did not work |
| 14:12.36 | Ohmu | how to stop this splintering? better communication? it always seems to happen. Like we have KDE and gnome. |
| 14:13.15 | Ohmu | where is the splintering occurring? at what level? is it equivalent to different linux distros running the same kernel? |
| 14:14.44 | *** join/#openmoko kirun (n=kirun@78-86-140-200.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 14:14.50 | Ke | Ohmu: perhaps like kernel and libraries for base functionalities |
| 14:14.58 | *** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=chatzill@78-20-187-88.access.telenet.be) |
| 14:16.08 | Ohmu | eats .. brb |
| 14:16.11 | *** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host206-11-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:19.24 | *** join/#openmoko HauDyr (n=kim@79.142.229.123.static.knet.bolignet.dk) |
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| 14:31.40 | Fougner | blah! =D |
| 14:32.12 | Fougner | .oO( someone has to do something about that openmoko community stuff.. ) |
| 14:32.33 | Fougner | reorganize the whole community =D |
| 14:33.28 | mickeyl | sounds good |
| 14:33.29 | mickeyl | but who? |
| 14:33.54 | SpeedEvil | Fougner: your first task - rewrite the wiki. |
| 14:34.04 | Mononoke | hmm my openmoko acts strange lately |
| 14:34.31 | Mononoke | red led just blinks when I try to turn it on or charge it or even get to boot menu :/ |
| 14:36.06 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=almien@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 14:36.30 | Fougner | mickeyl: do we have the knowledge and skills to do the kernel and basic things on real "developer" level ? |
| 14:37.05 | *** join/#openmoko niki (n=niki@0x5553169c.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 14:37.40 | Fougner | if that's so , let's just develop a very basic core where suspend and so on works well, and then go for the other applications.. is this possible? |
| 14:37.49 | mickeyl | of course it is |
| 14:38.00 | mickeyl | Om is taking care of the kernel |
| 14:38.03 | mickeyl | FSO is taking care of the services |
| 14:38.10 | mickeyl | the community can take care of the apps |
| 14:38.10 | Fougner | ah |
| 14:38.14 | Fougner | wow |
| 14:38.18 | Fougner | nice mixup |
| 14:38.20 | mickeyl | i guess that's a good split |
| 14:38.35 | Fougner | install OM + FSO |
| 14:38.38 | Fougner | eeh.. |
| 14:38.54 | Fougner | okay |
| 14:39.20 | mwester | It's working pretty well right now. :) |
| 14:39.38 | valos[fr] | Mononoke: same problem for me yesterday, I re-flash the kernel to be able to boot again |
| 14:39.42 | *** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host206-11-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:39.53 | Fougner | mwester: hey hacker! |
| 14:39.56 | Fougner | =D |
| 14:40.34 | Fougner | so, is there a way to contribute in some other way than just testing out apps? ^.^ |
| 14:41.07 | Mononoke | valos[fr]: thanks I'll give it go |
| 14:41.17 | mickeyl | sure, graphics, ui design, sound, documentation |
| 14:41.38 | Fougner | mickeyl: give me a crash course in UI design xD |
| 14:41.47 | Fougner | I mean, what apps to use and develop in? |
| 14:42.53 | Fougner | I've looked into basic basic programming stuff, but I'll surely know how to draw UI :) |
| 14:44.39 | bumbl | Fougner: suspend and resume works perfect here |
| 14:45.37 | *** join/#openmoko hobitti (n=hobitti@YKCMXLI.gprs.saunalahti.fi) |
| 14:45.55 | bumbl | Fougner: for developing: start with python and the efl (enlightenment foundation libraries) |
| 14:49.07 | Ke | any guesses on gta03 timeline |
| 14:49.15 | *** join/#openmoko Isajha (n=Isajha4@wrzb-d933dc4c.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 14:49.22 | Ke | my old phone just broke down |
| 14:49.35 | *** join/#openmoko slchen (n=slchen@122-116-241-177.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 14:49.47 | Ke | well still it might not be useable at release time |
| 14:51.07 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@189-39-157-98.gru.flash.tv.br) |
| 14:51.10 | *** join/#openmoko ^Chechen^ (i=_Chechen@chechen.kraslan.ru) |
| 14:51.15 | *** part/#openmoko ^Chechen^ (i=_Chechen@chechen.kraslan.ru) |
| 14:51.16 | quatrox | Ke: I would guess somewhere in the second half of 2009 |
| 14:51.52 | Ohmu | runs open source software and hardware. Does it also run open source management and business model? |
| 14:52.15 | Ohmu | OpenMoko runs ... |
| 14:54.00 | *** join/#openmoko arzej (n=user@dfv41.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 14:55.55 | TAsnn | Ohmu, yeah, all the money they make belong to the community, and you can take it/use it/change it (to euros?), though it's viral, if you do so, your bank account also belongs to everyone. |
| 14:56.40 | Fougner | TAsnn: LOL! |
| 14:56.41 | *** join/#openmoko xkr47 (n=xkr47@a88-112-18-173.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:57.13 | Fougner | everyone will have access to Ohmu's bank account then =D |
| 14:57.32 | TAsnn | Fougner, omg, he already used the money? |
| 14:57.33 | Fougner | piracy is not stealing |
| 14:57.34 | Ohmu | who wants my overdraft? |
| 14:57.39 | TAsnn | free mokos for all. |
| 14:58.35 | Fougner | also, code is knowledge, for computers. to share it doesn |
| 14:58.40 | Fougner | doesn't hurt anyone =D |
| 14:58.53 | quatrox | but the cannot transfer money to his bank account unless they document that the money is white |
| 14:59.24 | Fougner | do we need to pay taxes in an open source society? =D |
| 14:59.28 | *** join/#openmoko two3four (n=erik@81-233-151-113-no82.business.telia.com) |
| 14:59.37 | quatrox | no |
| 14:59.41 | Fougner | ^^ |
| 14:59.48 | Fougner | eheh |
| 14:59.59 | Fougner | I can borrow my neighbour's car if I want to |
| 15:00.12 | Ohmu | I'll vote for an opensource government! |
| 15:00.19 | quatrox | Fougner: we must not violate the laws |
| 15:00.24 | Fougner | but I let the other people use it too |
| 15:00.41 | Fougner | quatrox: what? =D |
| 15:03.30 | TAsn | Fougner, depends how he licensed his car |
| 15:03.38 | TAsn | if it's bsd, you don't have to give it to anyone |
| 15:03.41 | TAsn | though gpl... |
| 15:04.17 | quatrox | Fougner: I thought of patents |
| 15:04.23 | *** join/#openmoko datachaos (n=datachao@189.27.176.237.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 15:04.29 | Ke | you don't have to share gpl with anyone |
| 15:05.19 | quatrox | Ke: we cannot share money if the currency is restricted by patents |
| 15:05.20 | TAsn | he has to release the car, with any of it's modifications (scratches/flat tires/etc...) back to the public... |
| 15:05.40 | Fougner | LOL |
| 15:05.40 | Fougner | hahah |
| 15:05.45 | Fougner | funny stuff |
| 15:06.17 | Ke | I thought GPL only required to share the source, if you share the binary |
| 15:06.22 | *** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl) |
| 15:06.27 | Fougner | but honestly, if I want to help out with UI, should I learn python and EFL? =D |
| 15:06.39 | Ke | python =o( |
| 15:07.19 | quatrox | Fougner: python, GTK+/Qt/ETK, dbus |
| 15:08.07 | Fougner | uh |
| 15:08.09 | Fougner | help =( |
| 15:08.26 | quatrox | it is not difficult:) |
| 15:08.30 | quatrox | start with python |
| 15:08.51 | quatrox | dbus is 2 lines:) |
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| 15:11.42 | quatrox | Fougner: do you prefer abstract object oriented GUI, then Qt can be used with python |
| 15:11.51 | quatrox | else you can use GTK+ |
| 15:12.04 | quatrox | to create widgets, etc |
| 15:12.29 | quatrox | python is the defacto language here |
| 15:12.45 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@udc-cesga.udc.es) |
| 15:13.31 | Fougner | quatrox: I know about this book, "dive into python", but what about GTK+ ? |
| 15:13.39 | Fougner | how to learn? =) |
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| 15:21.42 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r847140750778 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 15:21.42 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: odeviced: fix a couple of problems in the Audio problem and support new features |
| 15:21.42 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: such as a loop parameter and an optional length override (time in seconds). |
| 15:21.42 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: NOTE: Some codecs (i.e. machine emulators such as siddec) can not find out |
| 15:21.45 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: when a song ends, hence it will play forever until you stop it (or give |
| 15:21.47 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: it a length override, which is now possible). |
| 15:21.49 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: WARNING: API breakage in org.freesmartphone.Device.Audio.PlaySound() |
| 15:21.52 | *** join/#openmoko Brinky (i=brinky@faui2k3.org) |
| 15:25.39 | Ohmu | Fougner, google is your friend :) |
| 15:26.35 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@93-138-84-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 15:26.54 | Mononoke | valos[fr]: by the way how do I flash kernel when I can't get to uboot menu ? :) |
| 15:28.15 | elserpiente | try nor menu |
| 15:28.16 | *** join/#openmoko DieMumiee (n=DieMumie@W3788.w.pppool.de) |
| 15:29.23 | Fougner | Ohmu: it's my best actually ;D |
| 15:29.44 | jonkristian | where do i get 2007.2 images? |
| 15:29.58 | Fougner | jonkristian: that's what SHE said!!! |
| 15:30.16 | Fougner | hej din gutt! |
| 15:30.30 | jonkristian | hallo |
| 15:30.38 | Fougner | vad gör du? |
| 15:31.11 | jonkristian | Lurer på hvor lenge dette prosjektet varer før folk mister interessen. |
| 15:31.31 | jonkristian | :D |
| 15:31.33 | Fougner | haha |
| 15:31.52 | sakkara | Mononoke: i think your problem is that your battery is too low for booting |
| 15:32.04 | Fougner | det kommer vara så länge open source lever =D |
| 15:32.34 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-29-96.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:32.38 | jonkristian | Fougner: :) HÃ¥per bare det vil komme noe som faktisk funker snart. |
| 15:33.22 | jonkristian | Siste shr tar jo en evighet å boote, f.eks. |
| 15:33.51 | Fougner | jonkristian: första gången tar alltid lång tid. har du testat å startat flera gånger? |
| 15:33.56 | jonkristian | Jepp |
| 15:34.03 | Fougner | okej |
| 15:34.14 | Fougner | starta inte om den då! det är ju Linux =D |
| 15:34.17 | mwester | orgleborgle |
| 15:34.36 | jonkristian | Tenkte jeg skulle prøve 2007.2 igjen, og så eventuellt skifte til debian elns. |
| 15:35.03 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 15:35.11 | Kensan | find himself in openmoko-svenska |
| 15:35.55 | Fougner | Kensan: you're swede? =D |
| 15:36.00 | Fougner | mwester: WHAT? =D |
| 15:36.28 | Kensan | Fougner: no, just spent some time there during university ;) |
| 15:36.31 | mwester | Isn't that what the swedish chef from the Muppets said all the time? |
| 15:36.36 | jonkristian | lol |
| 15:37.40 | Fougner | mwester HAHAHAHHAHA |
| 15:37.52 | Fougner | Muppets <3 |
| 15:38.04 | Fougner | Kensan: where are you from? |
| 15:38.12 | Fougner | Mahnah-Mahnah! |
| 15:38.32 | Fougner | looks up the swedish chef at youtube |
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| 15:40.59 | Fougner | HAHA |
| 15:41.04 | Fougner | Chocolate on the moose |
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| 15:43.09 | slaxxin | anybody tried the Hackable1 with debian? |
| 15:43.10 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07stabilization/milestone4 * r17c759181713 10framework/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/channel.py: ogsmd: remove watchForHUP in GSM channel on close(). This fixes FSO ticket #240 |
| 15:43.21 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r674ea927d454 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py: ousaged: add FIXME |
| 15:43.38 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r438c1fe15570 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/channel.py: Merge commit 'origin/stabilization/milestone4' |
| 15:45.10 | *** join/#openmoko weihsiu (n=walter@220-134-133-103.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
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| 15:48.53 | bumbl | learning to code python is really easy |
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| 15:56.45 | Fougner | bumbl: you think = :o |
| 15:57.48 | TAsn | roh, ? |
| 15:58.32 | bumbl | Fougner: yep |
| 15:59.51 | Fougner | bumbl: so, if I learn some python and some of the EFL you think I can do something useful? :D |
| 15:59.58 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@93-138-84-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 16:01.43 | *** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74) |
| 16:01.56 | bumbl | Fougner: yep |
| 16:02.11 | bumbl | you could for example write applications you find useful |
| 16:02.20 | bumbl | and share them with others |
| 16:02.30 | bumbl | or work on existing apps |
| 16:02.40 | *** join/#openmoko apol__ (n=apol@udc-cesga.udc.es) |
| 16:02.54 | bumbl | big parts of the ui are written in python |
| 16:03.03 | bumbl | + efl |
| 16:03.18 | Ohmu | Fougner, read a lot, play around, explore, experiment. that way you'll naturally become an asset to the foss community. takes a lot of patience. |
| 16:04.51 | *** join/#openmoko mmaestri (i=c9fe5c07@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-12e9aef6c73f764e) |
| 16:09.13 | *** join/#openmoko BluesLee (n=malik197@e182060043.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:09.15 | *** join/#openmoko jopk (n=chatzill@p5B1662E3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:09.36 | jopk | hi |
| 16:10.20 | jopk | I have installed deforaOS-player, how can I start it? or where are the files located? |
| 16:13.03 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@wikipedia/norro) |
| 16:18.35 | Fougner | bumbl: yeah, sounds nice. |
| 16:19.56 | *** join/#openmoko loca| (n=tux@41.227.3.88) |
| 16:23.56 | Fougner | gah |
| 16:24.00 | Fougner | disturbing |
| 16:24.13 | Fougner | most of the music services "are for US only" |
| 16:25.12 | *** join/#openmoko blan (n=blan@HSI-KBW-082-212-048-118.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:25.46 | *** join/#openmoko emilis_info (n=emilis@clt-84-32-58-67.vdnet.lt) |
| 16:28.51 | Fougner | bumbl: all python scripts must start with #!/usr/bin/python, right? |
| 16:29.09 | DocScrutinizer | looks about correct |
| 16:29.30 | DocScrutinizer | though there was a recent posing about using "env" |
| 16:29.48 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, cant remember |
| 16:30.01 | zash | Fougner: if it is going to be exec()ed or something i think |
| 16:30.21 | Kero | that's usually #!/usr/bin/env program |
| 16:30.37 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:30.45 | bumbl | they must not start with that but they should; the alternative is #!/usr/bin/env python |
| 16:30.46 | DocScrutinizer | sth like that |
| 16:30.49 | Kero | which saves the day when people want to override with /usr/local/bin or $HOME/bin |
| 16:31.31 | Fougner | hehe, okay |
| 16:32.03 | bumbl | and # -*- coding: utf-8 -*- |
| 16:32.08 | bumbl | for utf 8 |
| 16:32.36 | Fougner | uhm |
| 16:32.55 | bumbl | below the #!/usr/bin/env python line |
| 16:36.28 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@91-113-59-29.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 16:38.49 | Big-Pat | I'm going to be learning python. Should I start with 2.6 or go directly to 3.0rc3. |
| 16:39.17 | Big-Pat | I know that the changes aren't that big but, is 3.0 worth it yet? |
| 16:39.37 | Big-Pat | does OM even support 3.0? |
| 16:40.14 | igor321 | 3.0 isn't out, so i'd say it isn't worth it |
| 16:40.41 | igor321 | i've also a question |
| 16:40.56 | igor321 | is there the edje compiler thingy in fso? |
| 16:40.57 | Big-Pat | well it's rc3 so we're not that far away |
| 16:41.22 | igor321 | Big-Pat: yeah, i guess, only that it's not backwards compatible with 2.x series |
| 16:41.24 | mwester | 2.5 / 2.6 will be the mainstream for python for quite a while yet. |
| 16:41.55 | Big-Pat | Well then that's what I shall go with, Thanks! |
| 16:42.20 | lindi- | python programs that only work with one version of python are not nice |
| 16:42.26 | mwester | er, that should probably read "for python apps", not "python" |
| 16:42.40 | igor321 | raster: the .edc files? should i recompile them on the moko? the ones from my desktop don't seem to work |
| 16:42.46 | igor321 | something about spanking me |
| 16:42.54 | mattbnz | Big-Pat: you'd do best to focus just on learning the python syntax and ways of doing things |
| 16:43.05 | mattbnz | the differences between 2.6 and 3.0 are pretty minor in the grand scheme of things |
| 16:43.07 | *** part/#openmoko Kagee (i=hildenae@wikimedia/Kagee) |
| 16:43.20 | bumbl | igor321: they should work |
| 16:43.36 | bumbl | at least they do here |
| 16:44.52 | igor321 | bumbl: thanks, will investigate further |
| 16:45.09 | igor321 | is there any easy way to get edje_cc on the moko |
| 16:45.11 | bumbl | you can compile them on the moko too though |
| 16:45.12 | bumbl | yes |
| 16:45.17 | igor321 | some opkg or something? |
| 16:45.55 | bumbl | opkg install edje-utils |
| 16:47.51 | igor321 | bumbl: you the man :) |
| 16:49.11 | TAsn | Big-Pat, from what I hear, python 3 is python 2.6 without many hacks |
| 16:49.43 | TAsn | i.e python3 restricts users to write in a pythonish way even harder than 2.6 |
| 16:49.55 | TAsn | though what you write in python3 will work on python 2.6 |
| 16:50.03 | TAsn | though not always the other way around. |
| 16:50.07 | Big-Pat | As in I don't need to hack it to do stuff, or they didn't? |
| 16:50.24 | *** join/#openmoko evolux (n=evolux@p54AAA3CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:50.30 | TAsn | no, I mean, people usually code wrong |
| 16:50.31 | Big-Pat | Are you sure about that? |
| 16:50.44 | Big-Pat | (3 code woriking in 26) |
| 16:50.57 | TAsn | from what I hear |
| 16:51.38 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-239-117.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 16:51.44 | TAsn | I mean, people usually do stuff in a crooked way instead of the way the language creator intended... |
| 16:54.49 | bumbl | TAsn: yeah - python 3.0 will be stricter and will clean some "weird" old behaviour afaik |
| 16:55.10 | TAsn | Big-Pat, see? I wasn't making that up ;] |
| 16:55.28 | TAsn | bumbl, thanks for the rescue ;] |
| 16:55.34 | igor321 | there are glamo speedups coming in the new kernel, right? |
| 16:55.58 | Big-Pat | I wasn't doubting you! Just making sure. |
| 16:57.37 | TAsn | Big-Pat, and you were right doing so ;] |
| 16:57.51 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-160-75-138.range86-160.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:58.02 | Big-Pat | igor321, From what I've been reading on the lists they're already doing most of what they can. |
| 16:58.36 | *** join/#openmoko jopk (n=chatzill@p5B1662E3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:58.51 | igor321 | Big-Pat: not sure if i understand you? |
| 16:59.13 | mwester | igor321: there are no glamo speedups. |
| 16:59.16 | igor321 | i was under the impression that the glamo clock has been boosted in the .28 kernel |
| 16:59.40 | mwester | That's also been done in the current "stable" kernels. |
| 17:00.23 | *** join/#openmoko toer (i=tore@179.81-166-86.customer.lyse.net) |
| 17:00.31 | Fougner | oh lord =( so FR will be laggy forever? |
| 17:00.33 | igor321 | mwester, i see |
| 17:01.12 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 17:01.24 | igor321 | well, i wouldn't say that illume is laggy, far from it |
| 17:01.44 | igor321 | but the edje kinetic list thingy i'm trying out is laggy as hell |
| 17:01.46 | mwester | Fougner: lag is a manifestation of improper usage of the hardware, IMO. it means that someone is going to have to more carefully pick what UI features they can use on the glamo. |
| 17:02.28 | quatrox | mwester: can the glamo clock speed be set from /sys or /proc? |
| 17:02.33 | mwester | i.e. you can get away with a lot of ridiculous UI coding if you have a 100 teraflop mega-graphics-chip ( ala Vista) |
| 17:02.55 | mwester | quatrox: good question. |
| 17:04.03 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 17:04.22 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r89a83bca0ee6 10/framework/subsystems/onetworkd/ (__init__.py sharing.py): onetworkd: just playing around... |
| 17:04.32 | *** join/#openmoko Dave (n=dave@pool-141-150-139-103.mad.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:04.44 | mwester | quatrox: AFAICT, the only glamo clocks that can be changed are those for the SD card interface. |
| 17:04.55 | Dave | Greetings Mwester :) |
| 17:04.59 | Fougner | mwester, you mean, you replace good effective coding with mega-graphics-chips ? |
| 17:05.31 | mwester | Fougner: Yes. Additionally, one can replace effective design with "eye candy". |
| 17:05.33 | quatrox | mwester: ok! Thanks:) |
| 17:05.51 | Fougner | mwester, eye candy is nice, if it's useful at the time |
| 17:06.42 | TAsn | Fougner, compiz-cube is rather useful ;] |
| 17:07.02 | TAsn | I like it a lot, I zoom out and read from all of my desktops while rotating |
| 17:07.06 | TAsn | :) |
| 17:07.18 | mwester | compiz-cube is no more useful than any other way of switching to multiple workspaces. That's a perfect example of eye-candy. |
| 17:07.35 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178018059.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:07.51 | mwester | I like it -- but I recognize that it is ONLY for pleasure, not added functionality, and I need to turn it off if my graphics card can't handle it. |
| 17:07.57 | TAsn | mwester, it's not just an eye candy, I find it useful easily rotating around and viewing two desktops in the same time |
| 17:08.17 | TAsn | for instance when I read something in ff |
| 17:08.18 | mwester | TAsn: there are any number of ways to do that without requiring 3-D rotations. |
| 17:08.31 | TAsn | mwester, that's for sure ;] |
| 17:08.37 | TAsn | so yeah, it's an eye candy |
| 17:08.38 | mwester | And the "jiggly" windows? Useful? noooooO! |
| 17:08.44 | mwester | But fun. |
| 17:08.57 | TAsn | but the 3d cube is more natural |
| 17:09.02 | TAsn | than all the other options. |
| 17:09.23 | TAsn | jiggly windows aren't essential, that's for sure ;] |
| 17:09.26 | igor321 | what about the expose' thing? |
| 17:09.30 | mwester | Just like it would be so much fun to do the compiz-style rotation, and even the "jiggly window" thing on the GTA02 with the accelerators... think about it. |
| 17:09.32 | igor321 | that's somewhat useful :) |
| 17:09.38 | TAsn | but, hey, rounded corners aren't a must as well |
| 17:09.41 | mwester | It's just sad that the Glamo can't do it. |
| 17:09.44 | TAsn | though it still looks great ;] |
| 17:09.49 | mwester | Yep. |
| 17:09.50 | *** join/#openmoko linuksamiko (n=sascha@dslb-084-058-220-068.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:09.57 | mwester | Frankly, color isn't a must. |
| 17:10.13 | SpeedEvil | You can do horizontally jiggly windows on GTA01 I think. |
| 17:10.14 | mwester | in fact, a well-designed UI needs to consider the color-blind. |
| 17:10.15 | TAsn | mwester, not a must, though it's useful with pictures |
| 17:10.23 | TAsn | SpeedEvil, lol ;] |
| 17:10.26 | SpeedEvil | goes to look up if you can generate an interrupt on line-changes |
| 17:10.34 | SpeedEvil | virtual window, ... |
| 17:10.52 | mwester | SpeedEvil: Does the GTA01 fb do hardware scrolling at all? |
| 17:10.58 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 17:11.04 | TAsn | hmm I'm really thinking about starting to experiment with the accelerators. |
| 17:11.06 | SpeedEvil | Well - it supports virtual windows |
| 17:11.16 | SpeedEvil | which you can move essentially instantly |
| 17:11.17 | igor321 | mwester: this patch, http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commit;h=c420296610012894ade01893bab2a52cd80882ae |
| 17:11.29 | igor321 | it isn't in stable |
| 17:11.46 | igor321 | and it supposedly boost glamo by 60% |
| 17:11.58 | mwester | Give me a branch and a string; I can't cut and paste from the IRC client. |
| 17:12.01 | linuksamiko | hej everyone, is there a fix or at least a workaround for this "3G SIM" bug? And is it a general FR problem (most likely hardware) or does it work with another distro like qtextended (so a software problem with OM)? I'm stuck here with my phone not being able to use my O2-Germany Card. |
| 17:12.24 | igor321 | mwester: stable-tracking, fix-glamo-turbo |
| 17:12.27 | Staticwave_Ace | linuksamiko: upgrade your gsm firmware |
| 17:12.53 | linuksamiko | this helps? and do you have a link how I can do that? |
| 17:13.01 | Staticwave_Ace | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing |
| 17:13.14 | Staticwave_Ace | "fixes bug #666" which is the 3G sim bug |
| 17:13.37 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@c-6e64e455.04-302-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 17:14.16 | Fougner | mwester, the jiggly windows are not useful, but they're funny as hell |
| 17:14.30 | Staticwave_Ace | linuksamiko: just, please, don't brick your modem |
| 17:14.52 | quatrox | Fougner: you will very soon be tired of it |
| 17:15.11 | Fougner | quatrox: define "soon".. I've had it since last year or something |
| 17:15.26 | linuksamiko | staticwave: is it such a dangerous procedure? |
| 17:15.44 | Staticwave_Ace | "Warning: there are chances to _completely_ brick your GSM modem on messing around with FLUID! Please watch out for typos!" |
| 17:15.55 | slaxxin | yikes |
| 17:15.59 | Staticwave_Ace | just read throughly first |
| 17:16.01 | quatrox | Fougner: look at iPhone - all those useless graphial things made all users excited - now they just think it is annoying and lags |
| 17:16.25 | Fougner | quatrox: that's why I prefer Linux over commercial software ;) |
| 17:16.39 | linuksamiko | staticwave: I gues once it's flashed there is no way back isn't there? |
| 17:17.27 | Staticwave_Ace | linuksamiko: see very bottom of wiki page |
| 17:17.33 | Staticwave_Ace | you can move around in firmware space a bit |
| 17:17.34 | Fougner | if the openmoko ever "lags" and annoy the users, people can change it the way they want =D |
| 17:17.35 | mwester | igor321: if someone were to merge that change into the stable branch, will you do the necessary testing with the various images to verify that it is stable on that kernel version? |
| 17:17.58 | *** join/#openmoko drath (n=vmaster@p5B07F3F4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:18.13 | walkie | is there any way to get some files in qtopia-phone-x11-mediaplayer filelist? i found that there is options->filesystem rescan in original qtopia, but how to do that in openmoko? |
| 17:18.40 | Fougner | walkie: put your files in /home/root/Documents |
| 17:18.46 | igor321 | mwester: sure, with 2 or 3 images, why not? we could do some benchmarks |
| 17:18.50 | *** join/#openmoko mmaestri (i=c9fe5c07@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6169ce2c75117f2b) |
| 17:18.52 | *** join/#openmoko Flyser (n=flyser@dialin-145-254-180-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:18.59 | mwester | linuksamiko: that problem seems to be that if the flashing fails, there is no way to recover -- your GSM will not work again even to be reflashed. Hopefully Om can find a way to recover, but it does not look good, and there seem to be a couple of people who have had such failures when flashing. |
| 17:19.14 | mwester | igor321: ok. it's on the list. |
| 17:19.22 | walkie | Fougner, already did it, but nothing happends |
| 17:19.28 | Fougner | reboot =D |
| 17:19.53 | Fougner | qpe is using the annoying scanning system |
| 17:20.32 | Fougner | to the people of Python: Dictionary is like an array? |
| 17:20.50 | Dave | hah |
| 17:20.51 | linuksamiko | wow I'm not sure if I will brick my neo the first day I got it. Maybe I get another provider. That realy seams to be a little too heavy. |
| 17:20.59 | *** join/#openmoko walkie__ (n=walkie@ppp91-76-186-75.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 17:21.04 | Dave | yeah, python has some fucked up classifications of data structures |
| 17:21.08 | Staticwave_Ace | linuksamiko: you might be able to exchange your SIM |
| 17:21.12 | Fougner | Dave: you code Py? |
| 17:21.29 | linuksamiko | allready called them, they won't change it |
| 17:21.35 | Dave | I did some :) |
| 17:21.43 | Fougner | hihi |
| 17:21.51 | Dave | I've been learning bits at a time since the summer. |
| 17:21.58 | Dave | It helps, when coding for the phone. |
| 17:21.59 | Fougner | cool |
| 17:22.08 | Fougner | Dave: what do you code? |
| 17:22.26 | joezeewa1ls | linuksamiko:maybe you can ordner the newes generation of their sim, it worked with O2 in germany |
| 17:22.26 | mwester | swear word |
| 17:22.29 | mattbnz | Fougner: a Dictionary in Python is like a hash, or a map in other languages. |
| 17:22.39 | Dave | Yeah, but reading the pydocs, much like you are makes you constantly say, silly python creators were you smoking a doob when you came up with these naming schemes. |
| 17:22.40 | mattbnz | Python's list is more like a traditional array. |
| 17:22.54 | mattbnz | ordered, numeric indices, etc |
| 17:22.54 | Dave | Then again, Larry was smoking something when he did likewise with perl :P |
| 17:23.04 | Dave | but it makes more sense to me. |
| 17:23.33 | linuksamiko | joezeewa1ls: when did they get this new version? I got my new SIM-Card about 6 month ago I don't think they changed it allready |
| 17:23.42 | *** join/#openmoko xcasex_ (n=rrg@ua-83-227-156-234.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 17:24.17 | linuksamiko | joezeewa1ls: but I will considre it hoping to get it working |
| 17:24.33 | *** join/#openmoko datachaos (n=datachao@189.27.165.141.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 17:25.25 | joezeewa1ls | i read about it on one of the mailinglist a few weeks ago. |
| 17:27.08 | Fougner | WOHOOO LISTS! |
| 17:27.14 | Fougner | there's my array |
| 17:27.43 | linuksamiko | joezeewa1ls: and the new one is supposed to work? Then I gues I will wait till monday and get a new one. The GSM-modem-flashing-thing is too risky for me. The phone was too expansive for that. |
| 17:27.47 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl_ (n=bumbl@91-113-62-24.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 17:28.12 | Fougner | soo, what do you guys think. how much do I need to learn just to make a simple application in GTK ? =D |
| 17:28.41 | bumbl_ | not much |
| 17:28.44 | Dave | tuples, yeah |
| 17:28.51 | Dave | just download a simple app |
| 17:28.54 | Fougner | who? |
| 17:28.58 | Dave | or check out some of the current freerunner py apps :D |
| 17:29.06 | Fougner | Dave: like? |
| 17:29.08 | Dave | it's easy to copy & paste to start :P |
| 17:29.21 | Fougner | I want to clean up all the FSO bad dirty code |
| 17:29.47 | Fougner | so people can start buying Freerunners and use it as supermegastable phones and PDAs |
| 17:30.10 | Fougner | Dave: example of FR Py-app? |
| 17:30.16 | Dave | many |
| 17:30.44 | Dave | it may be outdated and/or useless aqt this point, but check out gta02.py :) |
| 17:30.50 | Fougner | uhm |
| 17:30.53 | joezeewa1ls | linuksamiko: i found the mail, subject was "Any hope for bug #666?" from 30.10.08 the second answer from Roland Kossel tells about the working new O2 card. |
| 17:30.53 | Fougner | where? |
| 17:31.34 | Fougner | DAVE! WHERE? =D |
| 17:31.37 | Fougner | ~_~ |
| 17:31.38 | apt | STOP DOING THAT! |
| 17:31.39 | joezeewa1ls | linuksamiko: the mail was on community ML |
| 17:31.43 | linuksamiko | joezeewa1ls: thanks alot I will take a look at this one |
| 17:31.58 | Fougner | apt! |
| 17:31.59 | Dave | look |
| 17:32.01 | Dave | search |
| 17:32.10 | Dave | code |
| 17:32.27 | Fougner | apt get me some simple python apps for the freerunner |
| 17:32.28 | apt | ACTION fetches me some simple python apps for the freerunner |
| 17:32.28 | bumbl_ | neo1973-germany.de |
| 17:32.37 | bumbl_ | is nice too |
| 17:32.45 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-155-246-59.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:32.50 | bumbl_ | python everywhere |
| 17:33.04 | Fougner | bumbl_: will check that out, thanks |
| 17:33.36 | bumbl_ | the hp is german though (which shouldn't matter ... code is universal ) |
| 17:35.02 | Fougner | bumbl_: must be harder to find things I'm looking for though |
| 17:36.13 | bumbl_ | just had a look at it again |
| 17:36.14 | *** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host206-11-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:36.18 | bumbl_ | and most things are english |
| 17:36.21 | Fougner | oh, Python and Glade has something in common? =D |
| 17:36.25 | bumbl_ | so that shouldn't be a problem |
| 17:37.22 | *** join/#openmoko netx (n=rlange@horus.darkempire.org) |
| 17:38.00 | Fougner | oh, wow, negative list indices |
| 17:39.28 | lindi- | Fougner: it's just shorthand for indexing from the end of the list. python does not have negative indexes (ada does) |
| 17:41.51 | Fougner | lindi-: yah, and your point is? :) |
| 17:42.09 | mwester | they're different. |
| 17:42.54 | lindi- | Fougner: in ada i can declare an array that where the indexes are for example from -3 to +7 :) |
| 17:43.36 | mwester | which avoids having do do stuff like: i = array[ indexvar + 3 ] |
| 17:44.02 | Fougner | ah |
| 17:44.03 | Fougner | and what's the point with that? =P so I don't get incorrect expectations? |
| 17:44.03 | Fougner | I just learned a thing in python and you guys just crush my dreams =( |
| 17:45.00 | mwester | So you don't get caught in one of the very common coding errors, which is confusion over what index variable gets the first element in an array. |
| 17:45.21 | bumbl | ada ... is it still in use today? |
| 17:45.32 | Fougner | ah, good to know |
| 17:45.32 | Fougner | mwester, strong principles? =D |
| 17:45.36 | TAsn | bumbl, I saw some stuff written in that |
| 17:45.38 | TAsn | so I guess yeah. |
| 17:45.43 | mwester | i.e. in C, it is array[0], in some other languagnes it is array[1], in even others it depends only one how the array was declared. |
| 17:45.56 | mwester | Yes, ada is still in use today. |
| 17:46.15 | mwester | I see it mainly in the defence industries -- they even use it in realtime embedded. |
| 17:46.47 | TAsn | mwester, actually the c style is tho most intuitive in my opinion, although many do not think the same. |
| 17:47.13 | Fougner | when declaring an array, it's logical that the first index is 0 |
| 17:47.23 | bumbl | hmm the ada syntax is not to my liking (just had a look at a hello world) |
| 17:47.30 | mwester | I guess it depend on what you learned first. |
| 17:47.38 | Fougner | mwester, it always is ;) |
| 17:47.56 | Fougner | I looked at C++ first |
| 17:47.58 | mwester | Those who were unfortunate enough to learn with the BASIC interpretor tend to like arrays that start at 1 |
| 17:48.01 | Kensan | Ada got a revamp with Ada 2005. |
| 17:48.13 | Fougner | what did you guys learn first? |
| 17:48.15 | Kensan | and it is in use today. you just don't hear all that much about it. |
| 17:48.25 | lindi- | bumbl: yeah |
| 17:48.32 | SpeedEvil | Fougner: zx81 basic. |
| 17:48.48 | Fougner | SpeedEvil: and you're from... Venus? |
| 17:49.01 | Fougner | zx81, sounds like a spaceship to me :o |
| 17:49.17 | Fougner | I bet that's a real hacker language =D |
| 17:49.21 | Fougner | cool ^_^ |
| 17:49.27 | SpeedEvil | en.wikipedia.org/wiki/zx81 |
| 17:49.37 | lindi- | bumbl: you have to do a lot of typing to write a bug in ada :) |
| 17:49.46 | bumbl | haha |
| 17:50.53 | *** join/#openmoko grummel69 (n=christia@cl-13.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 17:51.06 | lindi- | and afaik it's the only language where GCC can be asked to treat extra spaces inside comments as fatal errors |
| 17:51.31 | bumbl | hmm I got to programming with The C Programming Language by Kerningham and Ritchie; it's not the best starting point in my hubbly opinion |
| 17:51.35 | bumbl | lindi-: wtf |
| 17:51.56 | bumbl | why should this be a fatal error |
| 17:52.50 | Fougner | SpeedEvil: cool, how old were you? |
| 17:52.55 | lindi- | bumbl: since it might indicate a bug in the comment? ;) |
| 17:53.00 | Kensan | bumbl: well python doesn't like misplaced tabs either. |
| 17:53.20 | bumbl | Kensan: yep but a bug in comment |
| 17:53.36 | lindi- | bumbl: the language does not care about whitespace but GCC has a lot of options on how to warn/error on style issues in ada |
| 17:53.53 | Kensan | bumbl: Ada strives for readable code, so missformated comments are things the compiler can point out to you |
| 17:54.53 | Kensan | lindi-: are you actively programming in Ada? |
| 17:55.17 | lindi- | Kensan: not really, just porting an old ada program at work |
| 17:55.23 | Kensan | lindi-: meaning: are you getting paid to write code in Ada? ;) |
| 17:55.34 | Kensan | lindi-: ah I see. |
| 17:56.38 | lindi- | Kensan: yeah |
| 17:57.21 | lindi- | http://rafb.net/p/QmdfSu55.html lists the GCC style checks for ada |
| 17:58.06 | SpeedEvil | Fougner: ~8 |
| 17:58.11 | *** join/#openmoko Tanuva (n=tanuva@f054002225.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:58.17 | lindi- | Kensan: 'o check subprogram bodies in alphabetical order' might annoy a few people who are used to be able to declare functions in the order they want to :) |
| 17:58.39 | bumbl | wow |
| 17:58.51 | Fougner | SpeedEvil: wow.. that's young |
| 17:59.41 | Fougner | SpeedEvil: what are you doing today. Working at NASA? =D |
| 17:59.46 | Kensan | lindi-: well they can disregard that option :) |
| 18:00.01 | Fougner | so, if I install glade, can I develop something for the FR? =D |
| 18:00.02 | *** join/#openmoko pb__ (n=pb@castle.reciva.com) |
| 18:00.05 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=almien@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:00.14 | SpeedEvil | Fougner: currently disabled, on a relatively small disability allowance for the government. Trying to develop stuff to sell on ebay. |
| 18:01.42 | *** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer2 (n=jr-N810@118-166-66-77.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 18:02.31 | *** join/#openmoko prosoft (i=0c6d229e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-619815655b7801ca) |
| 18:03.19 | Fougner | SpeedEvil: hehe, Ebay =D |
| 18:03.41 | Fougner | can I buy something you developed then? :) |
| 18:03.48 | SpeedEvil | Fougner: not yet |
| 18:03.55 | Fougner | aw =( |
| 18:04.13 | bumbl | one can sell code on ebay? ;) |
| 18:04.21 | Tm_T | why not? |
| 18:04.31 | Fougner | I can sell my mom on ebay :O |
| 18:04.34 | Fougner | no? |
| 18:04.35 | Tm_T | you can sell souls of dead people so why not code too? |
| 18:04.58 | Fougner | Tm_T: HHAHA |
| 18:05.07 | SpeedEvil | Actually, I'm planning on selling hardware thingies. |
| 18:05.10 | Tm_T | Fougner: this has been done, really |
| 18:05.16 | SpeedEvil | Though with embedded code. |
| 18:05.19 | Tm_T | SpeedEvil: even better (: |
| 18:07.41 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@unaffiliated/jaebird) |
| 18:08.24 | lindi- | http://cofundos.org/ might be better place to buy/sell free software solutions |
| 18:11.25 | Fougner | SpeedEvil: _working_ Freerunners |
| 18:11.33 | bumbl | hmm if you want to sell "hobby"-code the dark side (apple) has a nice place to sell useless software (e.g. I am rich app) |
| 18:12.08 | SpeedEvil | gou: ? |
| 18:12.11 | SpeedEvil | Fougner: ? |
| 18:12.34 | *** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl) |
| 18:12.34 | Fougner | SpeedEvil: you can sell WORKING Freerunners =D |
| 18:13.06 | SpeedEvil | Fougner: oh - no |
| 18:13.10 | sakkara | there are working freerunners? =O |
| 18:13.16 | SpeedEvil | Fougner: original hardware, original software. |
| 18:13.36 | Fougner | hum |
| 18:13.51 | SpeedEvil | Though I suppose in theory with the supplied schematics, you could strip a freerunner, and replace it on your own board with no glamo. |
| 18:14.04 | Fougner | except Glade, is there something helpful I can install to develop ? =D |
| 18:15.12 | bumbl | eclipse *ducks and runs* |
| 18:15.45 | *** join/#openmoko BluesLee (n=malik197@e182060043.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:16.27 | Fougner | bumbl: why? |
| 18:16.31 | bumbl | sakkara: yes it is reported that there are some working freerunners behind the seven mountains. The seven dwarfs got one. |
| 18:16.42 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@logan.freelock.com) |
| 18:17.09 | sakkara | XD |
| 18:17.27 | bumbl | Fougner: because eclipse is not that popular in a community which has the church of emacs |
| 18:17.38 | Dave | haha |
| 18:17.41 | Fougner | oh. |
| 18:17.42 | Fougner | emacs |
| 18:17.45 | Fougner | I've hard of it |
| 18:17.49 | Fougner | heard* |
| 18:17.49 | Dave | puts up the gang sign |
| 18:17.53 | Dave | vim4lyfe yo |
| 18:18.11 | Fougner | isn't that the new generation of Apple's Macbooks? |
| 18:18.16 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r9d7524a2c72d 10/ (5 files in 3 dirs): onetworkd: connection sharing convenience (WIP, there is no such thing as a Network subsystem...) |
| 18:18.18 | joezeewa1ls | * joezeewa1ls joins daves gang |
| 18:18.19 | sakkara | LOL |
| 18:18.29 | Dave | >:) |
| 18:18.43 | Fougner | iMacs, eMacs, |
| 18:18.47 | Dave | fear us, cjb |
| 18:18.48 | Fougner | nah |
| 18:18.50 | *** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer (n=jr@118-166-66-77.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 18:18.56 | Dave | Joerg! |
| 18:19.05 | Fougner | Dave, can I join your gang? =) |
| 18:19.06 | cjb | blinks |
| 18:19.16 | Dave | Fougner, no |
| 18:19.23 | Fougner | aaw, why not? =( |
| 18:19.25 | Dave | We don't cater to your kind ¬_¬ |
| 18:19.58 | Fougner | uhm |
| 18:20.09 | Fougner | I don't want your food actually |
| 18:20.29 | Dave | I wasn't talking food. |
| 18:21.12 | DocScrutinizer | Dave: I'm here all the time :-) |
| 18:21.12 | Fougner | then what? |
| 18:21.23 | DocScrutinizer | you just don't recognize |
| 18:21.44 | Dave | :p |
| 18:21.54 | Dave | jserv--, will you be my friend? |
| 18:21.58 | Fougner | bumbl: Emacs =D |
| 18:22.16 | DocScrutinizer | and: I'm known by many names >:-) |
| 18:22.33 | Dave | :P |
| 18:22.42 | bumbl | Fougner: Vim |
| 18:22.44 | Dave | Notorious |
| 18:23.15 | Fougner | bumbl: Nano! |
| 18:23.44 | bumbl | baeh |
| 18:24.38 | Dave | I hear it's fucked on the phone. :P |
| 18:27.46 | Fougner | haha, to all swedes, listen to radio P3's "Fragglarna".. about the swedish hacking group that hacked NASA, Universities all over USA and stuff |
| 18:28.04 | Dave | o.O |
| 18:28.09 | Dave | hva? |
| 18:28.20 | Fougner | vadå va Dave? =D |
| 18:29.45 | Dave | ¬_¬ |
| 18:30.08 | SpeedEvil | You only get to claim to hack NASA if you make the shuttle land at heathrow. |
| 18:30.29 | Dave | damn sved |
| 18:30.54 | SpeedEvil | ponders if heathrow is actually an alternate. |
| 18:31.03 | Dave | Fouuuuuuuuuuuugneeeeeeeeeeeer |
| 18:31.26 | Fougner | Daaaaaaaaveeeeeeeeeee |
| 18:31.32 | Dave | dra til helvete :[ |
| 18:31.46 | Fougner | SpeedEvil: Actually, "Fragglarna" did hack the NASA and stuff |
| 18:32.44 | Tig| | hahahahaha shuttle landing at heathrow, "er houston, the tower says we have to enter the holding pattern for 30 mins due to problems at terminal 5" |
| 18:33.09 | Dave | DOES NOTE COMPUTE |
| 18:33.10 | bumbl | Fougner: he hacked the NASA and is not in Guantanamo |
| 18:33.12 | bumbl | respect |
| 18:33.13 | Dave | not |
| 18:33.13 | bumbl | :p |
| 18:33.26 | Dave | Bumble, TERRORIST!? |
| 18:33.38 | Fougner | bumbl: what? |
| 18:34.04 | Tig| | Dave: what goes woof woof *boom*? |
| 18:34.09 | *** join/#openmoko nadio (n=nobody@about/philosophy/nadio) |
| 18:34.11 | Dave | o_O |
| 18:34.13 | Tig| | a terrierish |
| 18:34.15 | Dave | Explosive puppies? |
| 18:34.19 | Dave | -_-; |
| 18:34.36 | Tig| | a terrierist even |
| 18:34.43 | Tig| | blasted keyboard |
| 18:35.08 | Dave | slaps Tig around a bit with his own keyboard |
| 18:35.42 | Tig| | good job I am not using the model m |
| 18:36.14 | Fougner | Tig|: ger! |
| 18:36.23 | Fougner | Tigger =D |
| 18:36.38 | Tig| | evening all |
| 18:37.50 | Tig| | opens a beer and ponders finding out why SHR testing and BT keyboards does not work |
| 18:38.00 | Dave | YAY |
| 18:38.07 | Dave | I fixed my usb bus! |
| 18:38.18 | *** join/#openmoko _micm_ (n=micm@p50872217.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:38.20 | mwester | adds bluetooth headsets to Tigl's pondering. |
| 18:38.29 | bumbl | Fougner: Gary McKinnon will be extradited to the USA |
| 18:38.29 | Dave | Tig, er du full? :p |
| 18:38.45 | Dave | Bumble, he gon git it ;p |
| 18:38.48 | Tig| | Dave: usb? lawks, most of them are diesel |
| 18:38.52 | mwester | ponders suggesting to Dave that he plug the USB into his headphone jack again. |
| 18:39.10 | quatrox | Dave: selvsagt er han det |
| 18:39.52 | bumbl | mwester: lol |
| 18:39.55 | Dave | Mwester - Hey, fuck you! - I resent that :P |
| 18:40.00 | Dave | I only did it once :( |
| 18:40.29 | SpeedEvil | For those that were wondering. Heathrow is in fact long enough to land the shuttle on. |
| 18:40.31 | Dave | oh yeah, and for anyone listening - don't try that :P |
| 18:40.32 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@e181178041.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:40.38 | SpeedEvil | But it'd need to be a manual landing. |
| 18:40.53 | Fougner | please help =( |
| 18:40.54 | Dave | sounds like an equally bad idea then, Speedy |
| 18:40.55 | kd8ikt | i heard they just openend up another runway there |
| 18:41.00 | mwester | Could it get off the ground again, on it's little helper plane? |
| 18:41.04 | Dave | Fougner, make teh web wit pearl!? |
| 18:41.05 | SpeedEvil | kd8ikt: nope |
| 18:41.17 | SpeedEvil | mwester: the carrier plane is IIRC a 'normal' 747 |
| 18:41.32 | Fougner | Dave: perl even |
| 18:41.34 | mwester | well, normal in the sense that it carries a shuttle on top |
| 18:41.46 | mwester | a bit of extra weight |
| 18:41.49 | SpeedEvil | mwester: just with a few hardpoints on the top. The crane would be a bitch though. I'm not sure how that's done. |
| 18:41.56 | Dave | wow |
| 18:42.06 | Dave | that's one heavy ... woman ;p |
| 18:42.13 | Tig| | technically that would make the shuttle luggage, and we all know what happens to that at heathrow :P |
| 18:42.21 | mwester | hahaha! |
| 18:42.22 | Dave | hahaha |
| 18:42.30 | Dave | ;D |
| 18:42.54 | *** part/#openmoko nadio (n=nobody@about/philosophy/nadio) |
| 18:42.55 | viq | Who knows, maybe they would get home with two? ;) |
| 18:43.22 | Dave | Russians? |
| 18:43.51 | mwester | would they even want it back, after the customs officials got done with it? |
| 18:44.10 | Tig| | "Dear NASA we have found your shuttle, it is at our sorting warehouse in italy and will be posted out to you via UPS, hugs and kisses BA" |
| 18:44.55 | viq | ".. in 1 x 1 x .5 m boxes" ;) |
| 18:45.25 | Tig| | :) |
| 18:45.50 | Tig| | it is when the first box turns up "box 3 of 1345" :) |
| 18:46.08 | mwester | Nah, I think the letter would note that proof-of-ownership would be required to release it. |
| 18:46.16 | *** join/#openmoko Isajha (n=Isajha4@wrzb-d933dc4c.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:46.23 | mwester | wonders if the shuttle has a serial number |
| 18:46.31 | quatrox | haha |
| 18:46.45 | quatrox | It should have |
| 18:46.57 | viq | On the underside, as usual ;) |
| 18:47.06 | quatrox | on the engine |
| 18:47.14 | Fougner | mwester, "yeah, you should be able to read 'all your mokos belong to us' on it" |
| 18:47.15 | quatrox | and inside |
| 18:47.21 | Tig| | wonders if you can only take liquids on if they are in little bottles |
| 18:47.50 | *** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@vpn.yellowpages.com) |
| 18:48.48 | quatrox | Tig|: it depends on whether it will be a private or commercial flight |
| 18:49.30 | Tig| | "did you pack this shuttle yourself sir?" |
| 18:49.41 | *** join/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74) |
| 18:49.52 | quatrox | Tig|: if you use your personal plane, you can always bring all your coca cola glass bottles:) |
| 18:50.27 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@e181178041.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:50.49 | Dave | Mwester SIN? |
| 18:51.38 | Fougner | DAVE =D |
| 18:55.09 | Dave | QUAD DAMAGE |
| 18:55.55 | almien | 'attach orbiter here, black side down' |
| 18:56.58 | Dave | they'll certainly fail at even that |
| 18:57.40 | CIA-51 | openmoko: 03werner * r4816 10/developers/werner/fake-calup/calup.myroot: Added fuser. |
| 18:59.01 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@e181178041.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:00.57 | almien | SpeedEvil: image of the crane is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SCA_mate.ogg |
| 19:01.59 | viq | "ooops, it fell" |
| 19:02.20 | Dave | rut roh D: |
| 19:02.20 | SpeedEvil | I was wondering ratehr how the crane was transported. |
| 19:02.21 | mwester | good grief that's huge |
| 19:02.36 | *** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=fn-javac@U5d15.u.pppool.de) |
| 19:02.52 | viq | It looks like it's constructed, not transported ;) |
| 19:03.29 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - I mean is it a standard kit tehy can erect in 14 days on a flat bit of land, or is it more permenant. |
| 19:03.44 | bumbl | wow 20% inflation in iceland |
| 19:03.52 | Dave | holy shit |
| 19:03.53 | Dave | :[ |
| 19:04.30 | doc|home | bumbl: not surprising given their currency collapsed |
| 19:05.43 | Dave | :( |
| 19:05.48 | quatrox | SpeedEvil: not more? |
| 19:05.51 | Fougner | Dave! |
| 19:06.15 | quatrox | sorry - meant bumbl |
| 19:06.31 | Dave | bumble, would this be an inappropriate time for more bailout jokes? ;D |
| 19:06.34 | bumbl | doc|home: yep |
| 19:06.56 | bumbl | quatrox: they said 20% in the news |
| 19:07.05 | quatrox | bumbl: I would guess it was 100% - the country is bankrupt |
| 19:07.12 | bumbl | quatrox: yep |
| 19:07.39 | almien | getting more nervous about having savings in GBP |
| 19:07.53 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@unaffiliated/jaebird) |
| 19:08.26 | bumbl | Dave: the news speaker made a kind of joke: "the shopkeapers are really down/tired because of changing the price labels so often" |
| 19:09.01 | bumbl | almien: hmm pounds are quite stable |
| 19:09.55 | bumbl | although they lost too |
| 19:10.11 | *** join/#openmoko jnilsson (n=jnilsson@173.Red-83-33-227.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:10.17 | Dave | haha, yeah |
| 19:10.22 | Dave | gas prices, hell yeah! |
| 19:10.23 | jnilsson | hi guys |
| 19:10.47 | jnilsson | im currently working on using the debian armel userspace on my htc elf |
| 19:11.06 | jnilsson | its booting but (of course) with a lot of errors |
| 19:11.18 | jnilsson | the first one that i notice is that usb0 does not work |
| 19:11.23 | bumbl | gas prices in iceland: >2€ per litre |
| 19:11.27 | jnilsson | it does work with other userspaces |
| 19:11.35 | lindi- | jnilsson: modprobe the module |
| 19:11.37 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=toi@d54C2AAB7.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:12.03 | jnilsson | lindi: yea, my kernel does not support modules i think... |
| 19:12.15 | jnilsson | could be the problem? |
| 19:12.20 | quatrox | jnilsson: that is the same as in Scandinavia |
| 19:12.47 | jnilsson | quatrox: Scandinavia? |
| 19:12.58 | quatrox | yes |
| 19:13.31 | kd8ikt | scandinavit |
| 19:13.36 | jnilsson | it gives me an error that the s. link from /etc/network/run does not work |
| 19:13.38 | quatrox | lol |
| 19:13.42 | Kensan | jnilsson: are you using a htc phone? Fyi, there's a htc-linux channel (#htc-linux) here on freenode. |
| 19:13.55 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-218-125-62.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:14.00 | jnilsson | kensan: yea? ill check it thx |
| 19:15.10 | *** join/#openmoko Isajha (n=Isajha4@wrzb-d933dc4c.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:20.22 | *** join/#openmoko mgregson (n=mgregson@76-10-128-253.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 19:21.42 | *** join/#openmoko Henkie (n=terrordu@5571fddc.ftth.concepts.nl) |
| 19:21.51 | *** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74) |
| 19:32.50 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 19:34.08 | *** join/#openmoko polymar (n=polymar@ip72-219-149-151.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 19:45.35 | Dave | slaps raster around a bit with a large barracuda |
| 19:45.52 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5cda1.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 19:47.45 | *** join/#openmoko FilipLinux4BE (n=Filip@77.109.123.60) |
| 19:52.46 | *** join/#openmoko jucs (n=jucs@p57AE4BD2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:52.48 | *** part/#openmoko jucs (n=jucs@p57AE4BD2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:53.09 | *** join/#openmoko Mek (n=marijn@93.157.1.37) |
| 19:53.25 | Fougner | Dave: |
| 19:53.26 | Fougner | =D |
| 19:53.31 | Fougner | what up? |
| 19:54.45 | *** join/#openmoko Schugy (n=chris@vpn7.hotsplots.net) |
| 19:55.05 | *** join/#openmoko valos[fr] (n=valos@mar92-6-82-227-150-198.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:55.20 | Tig| | woot just had my first call on SHR-testing |
| 19:56.04 | Tig| | a little bit quiet for me but audio was clear and the person on the other end did not realise it was my openmoko :) |
| 19:58.44 | *** join/#openmoko slaxxin (n=brian@ip70-178-27-23.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 19:59.40 | gurugentoo1 | Tig|: could you post your gsmhandset.state? |
| 19:59.53 | Tig| | erm |
| 20:00.05 | Tig| | possibly :) |
| 20:00.39 | gurugentoo1 | I just got called and there was a really bad echo, I'm curious if your version would help :-) |
| 20:02.08 | *** part/#openmoko linuksamiko (n=sascha@dslb-084-058-220-068.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:02.25 | gurugentoo1 | Tig|: which image is that specifically? I'd really like to be echo-free |
| 20:03.28 | *** join/#openmoko phobie (n=phob@momo.das-netzwerkteam.de) |
| 20:04.42 | *** join/#openmoko Tig|_ (n=tigger@82.153.215.237) |
| 20:05.24 | Tig|_ | meh bloody network mangler... |
| 20:11.20 | Fougner | :O |
| 20:17.20 | Tig|_ | hmm is there an easier way of getting the state file off the device without having to cut an paste it a screen at a time |
| 20:17.31 | Tig|_ | there is no mail, no sftp |
| 20:17.39 | mwester | scp |
| 20:17.56 | mwester | nfs |
| 20:18.19 | mwester | what could be better for development than nfs on the base image?! :D |
| 20:18.19 | gurugentoo1 | hehe, definitely scp |
| 20:18.23 | Tig|_ | nope, neither of those are on it |
| 20:18.34 | mwester | then you have a different shr than I |
| 20:18.53 | gurugentoo1 | I've used scp, it's there hehe |
| 20:19.14 | Tig|_ | ah |
| 20:19.23 | Tig|_ | wait I see scp from the freerunner side |
| 20:20.52 | *** join/#openmoko dolf1074_ (n=chatzill@vpnj151.ugent.be) |
| 20:23.24 | *** join/#openmoko gurugentoo (n=narf@r74-192-209-66.bcstcmta02.clsttx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net) |
| 20:24.18 | *** join/#openmoko loca|host (n=tux@41.227.3.88) |
| 20:24.33 | Tig|_ | gurugentoo1: http://pastebin.com/m65d0a72b |
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| 20:26.29 | *** join/#openmoko loca|host (n=tux@41.227.3.88) |
| 20:28.29 | Fougner | hehe |
| 20:29.20 | Fougner | enlightenment.org seems to be offline |
| 20:29.24 | Fougner | can someone verify this? |
| 20:29.41 | gurugentoo | same here |
| 20:30.17 | Tig|_ | can't get to it here |
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| 20:46.24 | Fougner | hmm |
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| 21:08.27 | Fougner | Pepsi on the rocks |
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| 21:34.24 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: 03wessel 07fso-gpsd * r87f471bef6da 10/ChangeLog: Reformatted ChangeLog |
| 21:34.25 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: 03wessel 07fso-gpsd * r9fe4af5eaf48 10/ (ChangeLog fso-gpsd.c): Improved Gypsy compatibility |
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| 21:47.50 | TAsn | raster, hey, is there a way to make the keyboard appear from command line/code? (i'm just wondering ;) ) |
| 21:50.24 | *** join/#openmoko jserv--- (n=jserv@118-169-100-38.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 21:50.42 | raster | TAsn: ummm. well.. you could write somethng that could do it. you just need to send an xclientmessage to root |
| 21:50.47 | raster | that support is still there. |
| 21:50.56 | raster | though it probably should be deprecated |
| 21:51.23 | TAsn | no good way to do it? |
| 21:52.02 | TAsn | because if I let's say want to map the keyboard toggle to the AUX button I'll miss that option ;] |
| 21:52.03 | raster | why do u want to? |
| 21:52.41 | raster | well i can always make the kbd add an action |
| 21:52.59 | raster | saves doing a whole exec + conenct to x + send event round trip |
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| 21:57.43 | TAsn | raster, I don't but I thought about let's say, making apps ask for the keyboard when they pop up text boxes |
| 21:57.51 | TAsn | or stuff like that. |
| 21:58.04 | TAsn | I'm sure there are more reasons why to do so. |
| 22:01.04 | *** join/#openmoko L0f3n (n=m00n@87-126-130-84.btc-net.bg) |
| 22:01.10 | Dave | Raster! |
| 22:01.10 | *** part/#openmoko L0f3n (n=m00n@87-126-130-84.btc-net.bg) |
| 22:01.15 | raster | TAsn: apps can ask for the kbd |
| 22:01.20 | Dave | Oh, surprise surprise |
| 22:01.21 | raster | but the "correct way" |
| 22:01.25 | raster | is a property on their window |
| 22:01.32 | Dave | The enlightenment server is back online \o/ |
| 22:01.47 | raster | it automaticallyh will come up if the focused window has a property saying "i want a kbd" |
| 22:01.58 | TAsn | raster, I see, cool. |
| 22:02.08 | raster | better than the xclientmessage way as its more reliable and tolerant of app crashes/failures |
| 22:02.08 | TAsn | well I just wondered anyway ;] |
| 22:02.23 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 22:02.23 | TAsn | I mean, this may some day be useful. |
| 22:02.29 | raster | so whenever focus changes e just does what the property asks |
| 22:02.33 | raster | or when the property changes |
| 22:02.45 | raster | so as such - apps can ask for it |
| 22:02.53 | raster | they can also send a message - thats the old matchbox way |
| 22:03.03 | raster | its supported but i'd say "For compat only" |
| 22:03.19 | raster | so an app can ask for its kbd any time |
| 22:03.26 | raster | that should mostly be up to the widget set |
| 22:03.44 | TAsn | can gtk apps ask for a kbd? |
| 22:03.48 | TAsn | without using etk that is. |
| 22:03.51 | raster | or whenever the app knows "a user should be entering text now" |
| 22:03.57 | raster | yes - they can |
| 22:04.07 | raster | use the input method that came with matchbox-keyboard |
| 22:04.12 | TAsn | not with the old compat mode? |
| 22:04.19 | raster | thats the old compat mode |
| 22:04.29 | raster | u could write a new input method that set a property instead |
| 22:04.47 | TAsn | i know, i wrote it before I saw your answer ;] |
| 22:04.58 | TAsn | anyhow, thanks, you gave me more than enough info.;] |
| 22:05.22 | TAsn | btw, why do you restrict bug posting in e to registered users only? |
| 22:05.26 | TAsn | did someone spam you? |
| 22:05.36 | *** join/#openmoko unknown_lamer (n=clinton@cpe-024-211-230-216.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:06.45 | TAsn | because it's way more convenient to be able to post without the effort of registering, I mean, bug reports should be as accessible as possible (in my opinion) |
| 22:07.00 | raster | TAsn: to trac? |
| 22:07.09 | TAsn | yeah. |
| 22:07.12 | raster | yes |
| 22:07.13 | raster | spam |
| 22:07.41 | TAsn | grr, email spam is bad, bug tracking spam is even worst ;[ |
| 22:07.44 | raster | we've had enough problems before with spambots or just idiots in formus, wiki and bugzilla posting spam |
| 22:07.56 | TAsn | damn them. |
| 22:08.02 | raster | so just as a policy to minimise it - we require registration |
| 22:08.14 | raster | it'd be nice not to require it |
| 22:08.20 | raster | but the world forces us to |
| 22:08.20 | TAsn | yeah ;0 |
| 22:08.38 | raster | at the moment tho i'm not really paying attention to bugs on trac |
| 22:08.38 | TAsn | you are not evil, you are just victims of evil people. |
| 22:08.38 | TAsn | ;] |
| 22:08.45 | raster | got a todo list already thats full |
| 22:08.49 | raster | i'm not hunting for more "to do" |
| 22:08.53 | TAsn | raster, hehe |
| 22:09.02 | TAsn | mine is a minor fix anyway |
| 22:09.03 | raster | i will go through trac once the todo list pipe has been emptied |
| 22:09.03 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:09.10 | raster | so it'll be gotten to |
| 22:09.13 | raster | just expect delay |
| 22:09.29 | TAsn | hehe it's so minor I don't think it will ever be first ;] |
| 22:09.45 | TAsn | it's so minor that it's not even that important ;] |
| 22:10.06 | TAsn | anyhow, thanks again. |
| 22:10.07 | TAsn | night. |
| 22:10.31 | raster | nite! |
| 22:10.31 | raster | :) |
| 22:14.48 | *** join/#openmoko freqmod (i=freqmod@iskrembilen.com) |
| 22:19.10 | *** join/#openmoko pooze1 (n=imo@56.80-203-73.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:19.31 | pooze1 | hey... is there a way to get opkg to continue an interupted upgrade? |
| 22:20.04 | pooze1 | I started doing the upgrade from stable to testing locally on the terminal, but it seems X was stopped, which killed my terminal, which in turn killed the opkg upgrade. |
| 22:20.23 | pooze1 | then I logged in via ssh to do the opkg upgrade, but it started all over again. |
| 22:20.29 | pooze1 | and then dropbear was restarted |
| 22:20.39 | pooze1 | so I lost the connection, which in turn killed the upgrade. |
| 22:21.13 | pooze1 | any clues? |
| 22:21.24 | viq | use screen |
| 22:21.33 | pooze1 | that's the "way to go" ? |
| 22:21.46 | pooze1 | and... how can I be sure screen isn't restarted? ;-) |
| 22:21.56 | viq | I don't know if it's "the" way, but that's what I would do. Screen is addictive ;) |
| 22:22.18 | viq | you'd need to explicitly kill it, or reboot the box |
| 22:23.06 | pooze1 | viq: I was considering it.. but then I thought... since all the files seems to be downloaded and configured, but not replaced at the root-filesystem yet (?), there should be a way to just continue.. |
| 22:24.29 | viq | no idea |
| 22:25.57 | badcloud | would't you be better off tracking down and deleting the files installed, tinkering with the opkg.conf and then reinstalling? |
| 22:26.45 | pooze1 | badcloud: what do you mean? this was already a clean install of the stable image. |
| 22:26.57 | pooze1 | only installed the terminal to do the upgrade there |
| 22:27.29 | pooze1 | and changed the /etc/opkg files to point to the testing repository instead |
| 22:28.07 | pooze1 | the only problem was that apparently opkg wanted to restart both X and dropbear, which will kill my session and stop the opkg itself. |
| 22:28.18 | *** join/#openmoko badcloud27m (n=blah@ti400720a342-1500.bb.online.no) |
| 22:28.22 | badcloud27m | oh |
| 22:28.35 | badcloud27m | I thought you were talking about a package |
| 22:29.11 | pooze1 | no, full upgrade from stable to testing. ;) |
| 22:29.18 | badcloud27m | yikes |
| 22:29.35 | pooze1 | it was working for some good 20-30 minutes "downloading" and "configuring" the packages.. |
| 22:29.48 | pooze1 | yet only 80 MB is used on my rootfs |
| 22:29.59 | pooze1 | and nothing (?) seems to be touched on the filesystem. |
| 22:30.05 | pooze1 | hmm... :-/ |
| 22:30.14 | pooze1 | wonder what the opkg was doing all that time anyway. |
| 22:31.02 | pooze1 | updating the list of currenly installed packages completely at the end of the upgrade? so the packages installed are actually the newest version, just opkg doesn't know it is? |
| 22:41.14 | Fougner | raster: you're the E-guy? |
| 22:43.52 | raster | Fougner: yes. i'm on drugs. |
| 22:50.52 | Dave | hah :p |
| 22:50.58 | pooze1 | ;) |
| 23:00.56 | *** join/#openmoko muxe (n=muxe@i577B79C8.versanet.de) |
| 23:02.36 | Fougner | raster: lol seriously, you're the Enlightenment guy ? =D |
| 23:03.06 | TAsn | Fougner, read the about page in the enlightenment website |
| 23:03.07 | raster | if they say so... |
| 23:03.10 | raster | L( |
| 23:03.12 | raster | :) |
| 23:03.17 | TAsn | I can verify, the e guy is called raster |
| 23:03.31 | viq | e-raster ;) |
| 23:03.45 | TAsn | if you can cross check this guys identity, i'll vouch for him ;] |
| 23:03.47 | TAsn | night again. |
| 23:03.53 | *** join/#openmoko gromgul1 (n=ggrimnes@p54A6B6E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:04.08 | Fougner | :O |
| 23:04.14 | Fougner | you guys are weird |
| 23:04.25 | raster | i did say i was on drugs... |
| 23:04.32 | Fougner | stop it ^^ |
| 23:04.32 | raster | :) |
| 23:04.57 | Fougner | anyhow raster, would you please make a human being understand the way Python + Edje + E works? |
| 23:05.29 | raster | can't help u with the python |
| 23:05.42 | Fougner | maybe not, but never say never =) |
| 23:05.53 | Dave | hah! |
| 23:05.55 | raster | i prefer my development to be fast and simple without things getting in my way :) |
| 23:05.57 | Fougner | I just want to know how they interact |
| 23:06.13 | Fougner | raster: how's that going ? =D |
| 23:06.21 | raster | python is this big fat thing that gets in your way and makes development slow |
| 23:06.37 | Fougner | and the alternative is? |
| 23:06.48 | raster | that u always have to go add bindings to, to do anything :) |
| 23:07.04 | Fougner | ehm. anyhow |
| 23:07.21 | Fougner | Enlightenment is a windowmanager, right? |
| 23:07.24 | raster | and that means some cython abomination and footwork or some other pain.. just to call a function call. that in c or c++ or d.. would be just that. a function call |
| 23:07.25 | raster | :) |
| 23:07.48 | raster | so for me - python is just stuff that eats ram, cpu and creates work |
| 23:07.56 | raster | so i dont do it |
| 23:08.00 | Fougner | well |
| 23:08.02 | raster | e is a wm - yes |
| 23:08.10 | raster | and thats a topic on its own |
| 23:08.21 | Fougner | and it can interact with python right? |
| 23:08.35 | Fougner | the wm is the "UI", am I right? |
| 23:08.35 | Dave | raster :[ |
| 23:09.35 | Fougner | E can interact with both C and Python I suppose |
| 23:09.45 | *** join/#openmoko flexd (n=kek@79.160.12.127) |
| 23:09.57 | Fougner | and python is quite enough for a simple app like a calculator or something |
| 23:10.41 | raster | a wm is a wm |
| 23:10.46 | raster | it manages windows |
| 23:10.54 | raster | doesnt care who produces the window |
| 23:10.57 | raster | a window is a window |
| 23:11.07 | raster | it has no clue who or what produced it |
| 23:11.13 | raster | and what langauge its in |
| 23:11.16 | raster | u have an x window id |
| 23:11.25 | raster | e also happens to provide a lot more than just managing windows |
| 23:11.28 | Fougner | ah |
| 23:11.30 | raster | like launching apps |
| 23:11.37 | Fougner | good |
| 23:11.37 | raster | and a lot of other stuff besides |
| 23:11.46 | Fougner | so, UI, is like GTK and so on? |
| 23:11.59 | raster | ("panels, gadgets to check on battery level, wifi signal, gsm, time, etc. etc. etc.) |
| 23:12.09 | raster | ui of what? |
| 23:12.18 | Fougner | I don't know ^^ |
| 23:12.35 | Fougner | I'm trying to figure out where to start developing apps for the moko |
| 23:12.46 | Fougner | I just want to clear things up |
| 23:12.49 | Fougner | Enlighten me ;D |
| 23:13.11 | raster | u can use anything u like |
| 23:13.15 | raster | thats the bizarre thing |
| 23:13.28 | raster | people seem to think to develop for a hpone.. they suddenly have to use a specific toolkit or language |
| 23:13.29 | Fougner | haha |
| 23:13.38 | raster | because every previous phone os has forced them into this box |
| 23:13.45 | raster | ie u do it our way - or bugger off |
| 23:13.51 | Fougner | no, I know there's plenty of choices |
| 23:13.53 | raster | use whatever u like |
| 23:13.59 | raster | its an xserver |
| 23:14.02 | raster | apps create windows |
| 23:14.09 | Fougner | goooood |
| 23:14.16 | raster | u have a 1 button mouse with no mouse movement unless the button is down |
| 23:14.16 | Fougner | expalin more |
| 23:14.21 | Fougner | explain even |
| 23:14.24 | raster | and no keyboard (but it can be simulated) |
| 23:14.38 | raster | so generally take what u are familair with and go that way |
| 23:14.45 | raster | unless u are not familiar enough with anything |
| 23:14.50 | Fougner | exactley |
| 23:14.58 | raster | then you're not "writign an app for moko" |
| 23:15.00 | Fougner | I've looked into C++ a bit |
| 23:15.08 | raster | u are learning to develop apps |
| 23:15.24 | raster | so moko or not you are a learner in the world of coding |
| 23:15.25 | raster | :) |
| 23:15.25 | Fougner | raster: that's a more correct way to say it yes =) |
| 23:15.40 | raster | a hpone is just a pc with a slower cpu |
| 23:15.41 | raster | less ram |
| 23:15.43 | raster | less/slower disk |
| 23:15.49 | raster | lower resolution and higher dpi |
| 23:15.53 | raster | and fewer input devices |
| 23:15.58 | Fougner | yah |
| 23:16.04 | raster | the rest is up to you |
| 23:16.17 | Fougner | so I suppose you say that C++ is fine as language |
| 23:16.18 | raster | i assume you have somethng u want to develop? |
| 23:16.20 | raster | somethnig specific? |
| 23:16.22 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-99-2-134-30.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:16.30 | raster | i'm agnostic on c++ |
| 23:16.40 | raster | personally i dont like the extra complexity and overhead |
| 23:16.48 | raster | its harder to follow/read than c |
| 23:16.48 | Fougner | looks up agnostic in a dictionary |
| 23:17.12 | raster | (if you go use all the c++ features) |
| 23:17.28 | raster | but it at least is compatible with c |
| 23:17.28 | Fougner | raster: I know about cout ^^ |
| 23:17.35 | raster | ie - u can just write c++ as if it were c |
| 23:17.49 | raster | and it looks/feels/eats/sleeps/breaths like its c too |
| 23:18.01 | Kensan | raster: just fyi: I got a mail about panny reorder/payment etc. yesterday. |
| 23:18.11 | Fougner | I've heard that before raster |
| 23:18.11 | raster | and thus its easier to trace, follow and know exactly whats going on |
| 23:18.16 | sakkara | but you can i++; xD |
| 23:18.22 | raster | Kensan: aaah - must be slow on it |
| 23:18.41 | raster | if i need objects - i am happy to make my own in c |
| 23:18.47 | sakkara | hm |
| 23:18.47 | raster | i dont need most of what c++ brings |
| 23:18.52 | raster | so i dont bother with it |
| 23:18.55 | Kensan | raster: seems like quite a few people in europe got the mails the last couple of days. |
| 23:18.57 | raster | and can create anything i need in c |
| 23:19.00 | Fougner | but as I said, raster, if I know something about c++, and want to code a simple app, just to learn, what should I look intp? |
| 23:19.25 | raster | Fougner: well nexty - pick a toolkit |
| 23:19.27 | raster | unless u want to do it all yourself |
| 23:19.31 | raster | what kind of app |
| 23:19.33 | raster | this is the thing |
| 23:19.33 | Fougner | toolkit? o.O |
| 23:19.45 | raster | first - work out a concrete goal |
| 23:19.48 | raster | what do uw ant to make |
| 23:19.49 | raster | a game? |
| 23:19.51 | raster | a media player? |
| 23:19.56 | raster | a text editor? |
| 23:19.58 | raster | a web browser |
| 23:20.03 | raster | what should it look like? |
| 23:20.08 | raster | sort that out at least first |
| 23:20.15 | raster | as that will determine what you do next |
| 23:20.33 | Fougner | let's say a very basic and simple mediaplayer, developed for use on embedded devices with touchscreen |
| 23:20.43 | raster | music |
| 23:20.46 | raster | video both? |
| 23:21.13 | Kensan | Fougner: well start out small don't go for the whole shebang in one step. |
| 23:21.14 | raster | Kensan: i started writign a wm... |
| 23:21.15 | raster | :) |
| 23:21.22 | raster | but i'm nuts |
| 23:21.23 | Fougner | hmm, OO says to me that would be a good thing to implement later |
| 23:21.48 | Fougner | just something that can play my wma/mp3 files in a queve.. |
| 23:22.00 | Kensan | raster: well you don't count, it's that simple. |
| 23:22.03 | Fougner | no last.fm stuff, no video, bla bla |
| 23:22.19 | Fougner | would c/c++ be a good choice for this, compared to python? |
| 23:22.31 | Fougner | python must be using a lot more resources |
| 23:22.32 | Kensan | Fougner: with whatever you feel comfortable with |
| 23:22.42 | sakkara | with qt, its easy to write such a player... |
| 23:22.54 | Fougner | c++ is the only compile language I know ^^ |
| 23:23.02 | Kensan | Fougner: if you don't know python but want to learn it go for python. If you know C++ and want to work with c++ do it with that language. |
| 23:23.05 | Ke | only? |
| 23:23.10 | Ke | not even bash? |
| 23:23.16 | Ke | ah |
| 23:23.19 | Ke | compile |
| 23:23.19 | balrog-k1n | Fougner: it would be a good choice |
| 23:23.23 | Fougner | Ke heheh |
| 23:23.27 | Fougner | gooood |
| 23:23.33 | Fougner | so, what's next |
| 23:24.06 | Fougner | I don't know S*** about how to do this, but, well, I need to start somewhere |
| 23:25.01 | Fougner | so raster, probably I don't even need to bother with E if I want to develop a simple audioplayer? |
| 23:25.09 | Kensan | Fougner: think about what functionality your app provides: features etc. then think about how the application would implement those. |
| 23:25.48 | Kensan | Fougner: well for starters your app would need to output a soundfile to speakers |
| 23:25.55 | Fougner | Kensan: how should I do that when I don't even know how it works? :S |
| 23:25.56 | Kensan | Fougner: no need for any UI there. |
| 23:26.04 | raster | Fougner: it all depends what u want the ui to be like |
| 23:26.17 | sakkara | Fougner: you want it in gtk, qt or even just command line? |
| 23:26.19 | Kensan | Fougner: if you don't know how it works then you should start learning how it works |
| 23:26.20 | raster | e itself is a wm |
| 23:26.30 | raster | asa part of developing e (why we've taken so long) |
| 23:26.41 | raster | we developed a whole host of libraries (loosely known as EFL) |
| 23:26.57 | raster | and those libraries do graphics, loop management, data loading/saving confiig management |
| 23:27.01 | raster | theme engine abstraction |
| 23:27.08 | raster | animation... etc. etc. etc. |
| 23:27.12 | Fougner | ok |
| 23:27.19 | raster | they have a style of their own different to gtk and qt |
| 23:27.26 | raster | they also do things very differently |
| 23:27.30 | daMaestro | gah, the damn phone crashing when receiving a sms at the same time as typing one is a PITA |
| 23:27.35 | raster | but can also be very flexible |
| 23:27.53 | Fougner | Kensan: a simple way to look up a file or directory, put them in the queve and then the rest is quite obvius ;) |
| 23:28.00 | raster | if you want a fancy ui - efl will probably net you one with much less effort |
| 23:28.00 | Fougner | obvious* |
| 23:28.04 | raster | and with greater flexibility |
| 23:28.18 | raster | but gtk and qt offer a more "standardised well documenteD" approach |
| 23:28.25 | raster | you will be able to do something simple easily |
| 23:28.38 | raster | but to get "interesting" will be a steeper learning curve thereafter |
| 23:29.22 | Fougner | okay then, let's start out on a low level, c++ and gtk or qt as UI |
| 23:29.25 | raster | thus why i asked "what do u want it to look like?" |
| 23:29.40 | raster | if i were u |
| 23:29.46 | raster | i'd first not worry about the phone |
| 23:29.54 | raster | just develop an app on your desktop |
| 23:29.59 | raster | ignore the device |
| 23:30.02 | raster | just rememebr |
| 23:30.06 | Fougner | ah |
| 23:30.08 | Fougner | it the same |
| 23:30.12 | Fougner | it's* |
| 23:30.14 | raster | 1. 1 mouse button - mouseover is useless. mouse moves only when button pressed |
| 23:30.27 | Fougner | exactley |
| 23:30.29 | raster | 2. low res. 480x640 - and rememebr fonts will be bigger on the device |
| 23:30.34 | raster | so make it fit in LESS than that |
| 23:30.38 | Fougner | no mouse, and then click |
| 23:30.50 | Fougner | yah |
| 23:30.59 | raster | u can use xephyr (nexted xserver) and fake 285dpi |
| 23:31.02 | raster | and see how things look then |
| 23:31.20 | raster | Xephyr :1 -noreset -ac -br -dpi 284 -screen 480x640x16 |
| 23:31.22 | raster | for example |
| 23:31.26 | raster | and then just run your app on :1 |
| 23:31.30 | Fougner | looks up xephyr in Synaptic |
| 23:31.34 | raster | DISPLAY=:1 my-app |
| 23:31.49 | raster | that will pretty much get you a godo start |
| 23:31.51 | *** join/#openmoko mokolade (n=mokolade@85.221.112.173) |
| 23:31.55 | Fougner | ehm |
| 23:31.56 | Fougner | well |
| 23:31.56 | raster | also rememebr limit your cpu and memory usage |
| 23:31.59 | raster | always keep it in mind |
| 23:31.59 | Kensan | Fougner: well you can develop your app starting at the UI or starting at the core functionality (playing soundfiles). |
| 23:32.14 | *** join/#openmoko HAL9000 (i=HAL9000@ppp-48-155.30-151.libero.it) |
| 23:32.16 | raster | once your app is all working and usable |
| 23:32.16 | Fougner | Kensan: I figured that one out =D |
| 23:32.18 | raster | and display right |
| 23:32.20 | raster | interacts right |
| 23:32.25 | raster | and plays sound reliably |
| 23:32.36 | Fougner | test on the FR =D |
| 23:32.41 | Kensan | raster: btw, how's illume for devices without touchscreen? |
| 23:32.50 | raster | (make sure you dont go using dozens of libraries that dont alreayd have a port to openembedded or you'll have to do the port/build of them too) |
| 23:33.17 | raster | and then.. you get to do the next stage |
| 23:33.21 | raster | and that is.. dealing with OE |
| 23:33.26 | raster | and setting up an OE build |
| 23:33.33 | raster | creating a .bb recipie for your app |
| 23:33.36 | raster | and building it |
| 23:33.45 | raster | and finally installing and running on the target |
| 23:33.53 | raster | thats a final stage (imho) if you are still learning to code |
| 23:33.57 | Fougner | OE? |
| 23:33.59 | raster | and have yet to write the app |
| 23:34.06 | raster | if u had an existing one to port. that'd be different |
| 23:34.11 | raster | open embedded |
| 23:34.14 | Fougner | ah |
| 23:34.19 | raster | Kensan: umm.. in what way do u mean? |
| 23:34.28 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:34.55 | Fougner | Kensan: how's UI and core interacting? |
| 23:35.05 | raster | core? |
| 23:35.14 | Kensan | raster: it seems that fso etc is moving to other hardware plattforms potentially without touchscreen, so only buttons. |
| 23:35.33 | raster | Kensan: no support |
| 23:35.39 | Fougner | raster: well, compare to "model" or "controller" in MVC |
| 23:35.45 | raster | can be done |
| 23:35.54 | raster | but not a priority for me |
| 23:35.58 | raster | and i have a lot of things to do |
| 23:36.01 | Kensan | raster: I see. |
| 23:36.09 | Kensan | raster: yeah, as usual :) |
| 23:36.20 | raster | i barely have much time to work on illume |
| 23:36.37 | Kensan | raster: hm ok. btw is your contracted work for Swisscom done? |
| 23:36.38 | raster | and there is a lot of stuff to improve/fix there |
| 23:36.44 | Kensan | raster: right. |
| 23:36.51 | raster | Kensan: well it'd down to /12 time now |
| 23:36.53 | raster | 1/2 |
| 23:36.57 | raster | i have other thnigs to do |
| 23:37.23 | Kensan | raster: okay. |
| 23:37.31 | raster | Fougner: that will mostly be governed byt eh toolkit u use |
| 23:37.51 | HAL9000 | there is someone from italy here? |
| 23:37.52 | Fougner | riddle... |
| 23:38.08 | raster | the toolkit invariably provides you with all the tools to have the ui loop and work as well as back-end code run and feed the ui with data etc. |
| 23:38.23 | Fougner | that's a toolkit.. |
| 23:38.31 | Dave | stabs HAL9000 |
| 23:39.40 | Fougner | lol |
| 23:39.42 | Fougner | Dave |
| 23:40.18 | Fougner | raster: so, practically, I download gtk dev files and start editing in vim or what? =P |
| 23:40.22 | HAL9000 | I'm sorry Dave I can't do that..... |
| 23:40.36 | raster | Fougner: basically |
| 23:40.48 | Fougner | uhm. |
| 23:40.56 | Fougner | oh lord I feel stupid ^^ |
| 23:42.21 | borg_ | Fougner: look for a hallo world app in gtk and look for a "play a music file" app in gstreamer and then make something that plays a file if you press a button |
| 23:42.29 | borg_ | that should be pretty easy for the beginning :) |
| 23:42.44 | Fougner | ehehe |
| 23:42.45 | Fougner | thanks |
| 23:42.55 | Fougner | GTK is always the same? |
| 23:42.58 | Weiss | Fougner: there is a GTK tutorial which is quite good |
| 23:44.08 | *** join/#openmoko Kheldar (n=lightkni@evr91-1-82-227-13-115.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:44.30 | Ke | do you have cmake port for openmoko yet? |
| 23:44.31 | Weiss | here: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk-tutorial/stable/ |
| 23:44.58 | Kheldar | hello, is there now a barcode reader under openmoko? |
| 23:45.24 | *** join/#openmoko bipak_ (n=bip@p57B8636C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:46.01 | Dave | Ke :D |
| 23:46.15 | HAL9000 | ok bye bye |
| 23:46.20 | viq | Kheldar: that would be nice, but it loses part of it's appeal due to no camera on OM |
| 23:46.23 | *** part/#openmoko HAL9000 (i=HAL9000@ppp-48-155.30-151.libero.it) |
| 23:47.18 | Ke | hello Dave |
| 23:47.27 | raster | fourthats the beauty of open linux phones |
| 23:47.32 | raster | they have the same windowing system |
| 23:47.36 | raster | same toolkit(s) |
| 23:47.42 | raster | and languages as a desktop |
| 23:47.45 | raster | its all the same thing |
| 23:47.55 | raster | just start writing an app |
| 23:47.59 | raster | nothing special |
| 23:49.43 | Fougner | raster: |
| 23:50.08 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (n=jd@modemcable100.136-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 23:50.14 | Fougner | so basically I could always search for the "computer" way, if problems arise? |
| 23:50.21 | raster | correct |
| 23:50.27 | raster | in fact u shoudl start there |
| 23:50.28 | Fougner | it's the same on the FR in the long run |
| 23:50.31 | raster | if u are new to programming |
| 23:50.31 | Fougner | ah |
| 23:50.34 | Fougner | yah |
| 23:50.35 | Fougner | well |
| 23:50.40 | raster | once u have all that down pat and under your belt |
| 23:50.51 | raster | and are comfortable and know what you are doing |
| 23:51.00 | Fougner | I can begin with the FR =D |
| 23:51.01 | raster | THEN its time to look at "so.. how do i make something better?" |
| 23:51.33 | Fougner | hehe |
| 23:51.45 | Fougner | I can start out with a simple audioplayer on my own computer first then |
| 23:51.48 | Fougner | lightweight of course |
| 23:51.57 | Fougner | made for embedded |
| 23:52.16 | raster | yup |
| 23:52.18 | raster | imho tho.. |
| 23:52.27 | raster | desktop aspps should be that ANYWAY |
| 23:52.39 | raster | desktop programmers lost the skilsl to make something efficient |
| 23:52.43 | raster | or just dont care |
| 23:52.51 | raster | thats why u need 1gig of ram |
| 23:52.56 | raster | and a 2+ghz cpu |
| 23:52.59 | raster | :) |
| 23:52.59 | Fougner | haha |
| 23:53.00 | Fougner | true |
| 23:53.07 | Fougner | it can't be so advanced |
| 23:53.18 | Fougner | make a mp3-file sound |
| 23:53.22 | raster | advanced != resource hog |
| 23:53.30 | raster | hmm |
| 23:53.34 | raster | i advise avoiding mp3 |
| 23:53.50 | raster | openmoko will never allow your app to be distributed via any of their feeds |
| 23:53.57 | raster | patent problems |
| 23:54.02 | raster | ogg would be fine |
| 23:54.19 | Fougner | raster: I'll take that when I come to that bridge ;) |
| 23:54.26 | raster | (dont blame openmoko - blame the software patent system and patent trolls) |
| 23:54.32 | Fougner | but my Musiccollection is in mp3 =( |
| 23:55.06 | Fougner | anyhow, thanks for the help |
| 23:55.15 | Fougner | will look into this and come back tomorrow =D |
| 23:56.22 | Kheldar | viq: oh, true... guess it disqualifies Neo for my project :/ thx anyway |
| 23:56.33 | *** part/#openmoko Kheldar (n=lightkni@evr91-1-82-227-13-115.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:59.33 | quatrox | hint: those that are against software patents should register at http://aktiv.ffii.org/?m=n&l=en |