| 00:00.35 | mmu_man | hands Dave his Sportster 56k |
| 00:01.35 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 00:04.45 | *** join/#openmoko mboldisc (n=mike@c-75-73-28-183.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 00:08.30 | *** join/#openmoko vinicius_ (n=vininim@189.26.195.98.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 00:09.31 | Dave | hot |
| 00:15.15 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@124-170-224-116.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:15.21 | Dave | RASTER |
| 00:15.29 | masked | lol raster |
| 00:15.36 | raster | grrrr |
| 00:15.48 | masked | are you in .au atm? |
| 00:15.50 | raster | is about to chop heads off |
| 00:16.02 | gurugentoo | raster: mind if I help? |
| 00:16.18 | masked | lol raster |
| 00:16.22 | masked | let it rest |
| 00:16.32 | masked | it's history now |
| 00:16.37 | raster | yes |
| 00:16.54 | masked | home? |
| 00:17.55 | masked | should come to vic and i'll buy you a beer. |
| 00:18.04 | masked | that's free beer raster. |
| 00:18.59 | raster | that's an expensive free beer |
| 00:19.09 | raster | to go all the way to smelly land :) |
| 00:19.18 | raster | no need to get smelly in melly |
| 00:19.48 | masked | but think of all the things you can do with free beer, even get paid to drink it, for a while anyway |
| 00:19.53 | masked | then things go pair shaped |
| 00:20.02 | masked | nah i'm a good 150km from melbourne |
| 00:20.13 | masked | north of |
| 00:21.11 | masked | all the pubs and clubs in .au smell like B.O. now that they've banned smoking |
| 00:21.55 | *** join/#openmoko cnwdup_ (n=harlekin@hnvr-4dbd47c2.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 00:22.13 | masked | raster: i'll even shout you a really good e build |
| 00:22.36 | masked | i know that must sound enticing to y |
| 00:22.36 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213-152-39-89.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) |
| 00:22.39 | masked | ou* |
| 00:25.19 | raster | masked: not in sydney |
| 00:25.26 | raster | well depends whihc ones |
| 00:25.35 | raster | theres your old-style pubs which yes - are smelly |
| 00:25.44 | raster | and your newr upmarket jobs |
| 00:25.48 | raster | that are all nice and non-smelly |
| 00:26.42 | masked | yah i was in melbs this week and discovered the belgium beer bar at the eureka on southbank |
| 00:26.57 | masked | man, i tell ya what, i also discovered beer that day. |
| 00:27.09 | raster | hhahaha |
| 00:27.17 | masked | 1 leffe blonde and i was hooked |
| 00:27.24 | raster | th readoak 100m up the road is pretty good |
| 00:27.28 | raster | they do belgian-like brews |
| 00:27.35 | raster | a block down is the belgian beer cafe too |
| 00:27.40 | raster | and the bavarian beer cafe... |
| 00:27.54 | masked | i love sydney |
| 00:27.54 | raster | there's always exquilibrium that has 64 beers on tap diagonally oppostie me |
| 00:28.01 | Dave | :) |
| 00:28.11 | masked | i've only spent little time there, but when i'm there i dont want to leave |
| 00:28.20 | raster | the sanctuary hotel immediately outside my front door for an ok beer range but nice foot $11 for a steak |
| 00:28.48 | raster | if u know your way around - u'll find pretty much every beer here u want |
| 00:29.07 | *** join/#openmoko batti (n=batti@p5B14A65E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:29.20 | masked | ok so the beer has you surrounded and doesn't want you to leave |
| 00:29.47 | masked | but you have to pay for it |
| 00:30.27 | masked | how does it feel to be on australian 'broadband'? |
| 00:30.33 | raster | that's fine by me |
| 00:30.35 | raster | paying for it |
| 00:30.42 | raster | i actually have pretyt much cut down on beer |
| 00:30.44 | raster | no time |
| 00:30.49 | raster | have code to do |
| 00:30.51 | raster | as for boradband |
| 00:30.56 | raster | not quite japan |
| 00:31.04 | raster | but a damn side better than it was when i left |
| 00:31.06 | raster | i have 24mbit |
| 00:31.13 | masked | hell no |
| 00:31.14 | raster | and its snappy |
| 00:31.18 | masked | yeah |
| 00:31.27 | masked | im on 8mbit here |
| 00:31.36 | masked | calling tio tomorrow to fix the situation |
| 00:33.40 | raster | at least i can avoid the telstra line charges these days |
| 00:33.50 | masked | i'm building a wireless network all across the city, and i need adsl2+ at the gateways |
| 00:34.04 | masked | yeah, naked dsl is good |
| 00:34.16 | raster | nekkid |
| 00:34.24 | raster | as such tho |
| 00:34.29 | raster | .au recently got a lot cheaper |
| 00:34.32 | raster | with the falling aussie |
| 00:34.36 | masked | i can call telstra tomorrow and get adsl2+ on, but if i go through anyone else i can't because im on a sub-exchange |
| 00:34.36 | raster | i'm ok with it |
| 00:35.22 | masked | which telstra have neglected to inform anyone about and infact deliberatly list on the database that i'm connected to the main exchange in the centre of town |
| 00:35.55 | raster | aaah |
| 00:36.03 | raster | thus no one 4else knows hwo to hook u up |
| 00:36.12 | masked | hence why when i checked the broadband checker to see if i can get naked adsl2+ through internode, it reports yes |
| 00:36.25 | raster | internude |
| 00:36.37 | masked | but any attempt get knocked back |
| 00:36.48 | gurugentoo | that seems to be a common theme |
| 00:37.11 | masked | yes |
| 00:37.20 | masked | but you see here in my city |
| 00:37.43 | masked | this was the first location telstra enabled adsl2+ before any other provider |
| 00:37.55 | raster | smellstra |
| 00:38.02 | Dave | haha |
| 00:38.05 | Dave | assy |
| 00:38.13 | Dave | Give it to us! |
| 00:38.16 | masked | hel$tra |
| 00:38.34 | Dave | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/a021c845b2f5bc5f98e3b6a78ad925f7.png |
| 00:38.50 | masked | and the only reason they could do that was because of the sub-exchanges |
| 00:39.25 | masked | which is likely to be considered anti-competative nature |
| 00:39.34 | masked | if i play it out right |
| 00:39.55 | masked | Dave: that looks fugly |
| 00:40.22 | *** join/#openmoko Ainulindale (n=ainu@calaquendi.org) |
| 00:40.57 | Zorkman | disagrees |
| 00:41.28 | Dave | >:o |
| 00:41.41 | raster | it does look a little arse |
| 00:41.55 | Dave | Then make something better. |
| 00:41.56 | Dave | Huh? |
| 00:42.02 | raster | i have |
| 00:42.26 | masked | it looks cheap and tacky, not laid out right, not utilising space, and looks like something that should never be used in a production environment |
| 00:42.28 | Dave | heh |
| 00:42.52 | balrog-k2n | the cow is sexy |
| 00:43.05 | masked | the cow is the worst part |
| 00:43.25 | masked | it really shows how much effort gets put into openmoko |
| 00:43.34 | masked | openmoko at its pinnicle |
| 00:43.40 | balrog-k2n | it might be a dog though |
| 00:44.05 | Dave | yes |
| 00:44.08 | Dave | moo |
| 00:44.08 | masked | best thing about the whole lot |
| 00:44.11 | masked | is the font rendering |
| 00:44.22 | raster | points to illume's default illume theme and e17's b&w |
| 00:44.32 | Dave | slaps masked around a bit with a large raster |
| 00:44.33 | Zorkman | it utilises space as good as the standard 2008.x does... |
| 00:44.44 | masked | b&w? |
| 00:44.48 | raster | http://www.rasterman.com/files/the-gang-03.jpg |
| 00:44.53 | mmu_man | pets http://embedded.hug-nordic.org/ |
| 00:44.57 | raster | http://www.rasterman.com/files/b_and_w_e.png |
| 00:45.22 | balrog-k2n | no cow? |
| 00:45.33 | mmu_man | moooo |
| 00:45.44 | BobOfDoom | I think it might be a hybrid of a cow and a sheep |
| 00:45.53 | BobOfDoom | it looks too fluffy to be a regular cow |
| 00:46.05 | masked | Zorkman: yeah, and you can't use the standard 2008.x release for anything anyway |
| 00:46.18 | masked | its by no way an indication of anything |
| 00:46.30 | Zorkman | masked: true; but still i prefer it over the standard 2008.x theme |
| 00:46.36 | balrog-k2n | mmu_man: does it actually run on neo1973? |
| 00:46.38 | masked | that home bar at the top is atleast 3 times the same it should be |
| 00:46.56 | balrog-k2n | mmu_man: or is it a mockup? |
| 00:47.08 | mmu_man | just a very old mockup |
| 00:47.20 | balrog-k2n | ah |
| 00:47.20 | mmu_man | I've yet to finish my m68k port before looking at ARM |
| 00:47.24 | raster | 3 times the same? |
| 00:47.30 | viq | raster: just curious, what underlying OS are you using? |
| 00:47.36 | raster | viq: linux |
| 00:47.42 | viq | which distro? |
| 00:47.46 | raster | oe |
| 00:47.53 | masked | raster: size* |
| 00:47.56 | masked | typo |
| 00:47.57 | viq | On your desktop? |
| 00:47.58 | *** join/#openmoko slaxxin (n=brian@ip70-178-27-23.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 00:48.07 | raster | masked: the scap one? |
| 00:48.18 | Weiss | BobOfDoom: it's "quality programmer art", and masked: that's a very cynical interpretation |
| 00:48.27 | masked | yep |
| 00:48.38 | balrog-k2n | mmu_man: one of the screens says Device: Sony Ericsson m600i |
| 00:48.41 | balrog-k2n | mmu_man: does it run on this? |
| 00:48.43 | raster | hmm |
| 00:48.48 | raster | well the top space is wasted |
| 00:48.54 | raster | thatys an earea to put gadgets |
| 00:48.59 | *** join/#openmoko bernt (n=bernt@dslb-084-060-107-132.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 00:48.59 | raster | only one there is the confiog gadget |
| 00:49.06 | viq | raster: OE on your dekstop too? |
| 00:49.10 | raster | imho the home/list of apps is silly there |
| 00:49.15 | raster | viq: of course not |
| 00:49.15 | raster | :) |
| 00:49.22 | mmu_man | balrog-k2n surely no, we don't have an ARM port yet |
| 00:49.29 | viq | Well, that's what I'm asking about ;) |
| 00:49.36 | mmu_man | I guess it's the only pic the webmaster found :p |
| 00:49.36 | masked | if your using that much space you should have a lot of functions or a few very powerful ones that deserve to be big |
| 00:49.37 | Weiss | masked: it's just a bit of fun by someone who can't draw to save his life. the author's real aim is to work on kernel stuff, and is learning right now to try and get to a stage where he can make a contribution |
| 00:49.45 | raster | viq: aaah. use ubuntu on desktop |
| 00:49.54 | balrog-k2n | mmu_man: :( |
| 00:49.56 | BobOfDoom | Weiss: But I like it... a hybrid cow/sheep makes perfect sense. You can get wool *and* milk from it. |
| 00:50.02 | viq | Ah, thanks. |
| 00:50.05 | raster | masked: mind u that much space is only used when it slides out |
| 00:50.09 | mmu_man | balrog-k2n feel free to help :p |
| 00:50.13 | viq | BobOfDoom: or neither ;) |
| 00:50.13 | raster | normalyl u onyl see the X, ^ etc. icons |
| 00:50.31 | raster | so thats "temporarily expanded" mode |
| 00:50.44 | masked | yeah |
| 00:50.48 | balrog-k2n | mmu_man: so someone drew all these screens pixel by pixel? |
| 00:50.57 | masked | but in that case, it's expanded simply for no reason |
| 00:51.05 | raster | u want it biggish so u can hit the damn controls |
| 00:51.11 | mmu_man | balrog-k2n no, likely from real shots + cropping |
| 00:51.18 | raster | masked: he's expanded it int he screenshot to show off all his icons |
| 00:51.22 | Zorkman | BobOfDoom: a normal sheep also gives you milk, doesn't have to be a hybrid sheep/cow :) |
| 00:51.23 | balrog-k2n | mmu_man: ah ok |
| 00:51.27 | raster | so u knwo whats up there thats normally hidden |
| 00:51.37 | raster | its a signle screenshot of the ui in a transitory state |
| 00:51.40 | mmu_man | actually Haiku runs pretty well on eeePC and friends |
| 00:51.44 | balrog-k2n | mmu_man: well.. visually it's not much more impressive than gpe (~2004) |
| 00:51.47 | masked | raster: yeah |
| 00:51.52 | masked | but theres nothing there. |
| 00:52.06 | raster | so u're being critical of something for the reason of wasting space |
| 00:52.09 | mmu_man | balrog-k2n we don't really favor eyecandy, more simplicity and consistency |
| 00:52.09 | masked | but Home, a hammer and a shifter |
| 00:52.10 | balrog-k2n | mmu_man: but it would be cool to have another kernel supporting the GTA :p |
| 00:52.12 | raster | which is actually not its normal state |
| 00:52.12 | raster | :) |
| 00:52.22 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo1 (n=paul@76-10-173-74.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 00:52.25 | mmu_man | well I have the patched qemu running, just need to port to ARM |
| 00:52.25 | raster | its only the "i want to go control some extra stuff" state |
| 00:52.42 | *** part/#openmoko LetoTo1 (n=paul@76-10-173-74.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 00:52.56 | masked | ok point taken |
| 00:52.59 | raster | i personalyl stuck a pager there and added in virtual desktops again |
| 00:53.03 | raster | i like my virtual desktops |
| 00:53.04 | raster | :) |
| 00:53.26 | raster | i might consider adding code to illume to impose layout policy on a per-desktop basis |
| 00:53.34 | raster | so 1 desktop can be "fullscreen windows" |
| 00:53.38 | raster | another be windowed mode |
| 00:54.01 | raster | tho thats will up the complexity... |
| 00:54.04 | raster | that |
| 00:54.34 | masked | at 640x480 u dont really need windows |
| 00:54.37 | masked | just containers maybe |
| 00:55.03 | raster | some people like it |
| 00:55.09 | raster | use it as a miniature desktop |
| 00:55.11 | raster | i agree |
| 00:55.14 | raster | its dubiously useful |
| 00:55.24 | raster | but there's a whole standard windowed wm lurking there |
| 00:55.59 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (n=jd@modemcable100.136-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 00:56.08 | masked | ok |
| 00:56.41 | masked | i'm passing out at the kb from sleep dep, valium and seroquel. |
| 00:56.48 | masked | l8r |
| 01:00.08 | Dave | Hey Bob :) |
| 01:00.16 | Dave | masked o_o |
| 01:00.19 | Dave | yeah.... okay |
| 01:00.32 | Dave | Anyhoo, I'd still like it, and I think you'd agree with me, Zorkman. |
| 01:00.56 | Zorkman | indeed I do |
| 01:01.03 | Dave | :D |
| 01:01.38 | Zorkman | and I would overall like to see more people pimping their freerunner and posting the result :) |
| 01:02.21 | Dave | heh, yeah, I suppose |
| 01:02.27 | Dave | mostly on the user end |
| 01:10.40 | *** join/#openmoko Saupy (n=chris@Q3602.q.pppool.de) |
| 01:12.39 | raster | PIMP! |
| 01:15.49 | Dave | :D |
| 01:19.52 | Zorkman | this []D [] []\\//[] []D is going to bed |
| 01:19.55 | Zorkman | goodnight all |
| 01:26.03 | Dave | \o/ |
| 01:30.40 | *** join/#openmoko toggles_w (n=toggles@tommywatson.com) |
| 01:40.04 | slaxxin | users? |
| 01:40.09 | Dave | Yes. |
| 01:40.11 | Dave | LIKE YOU |
| 01:40.13 | *** join/#openmoko balrog-k1n (n=balrog@cke207.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 01:40.17 | Dave | noob |
| 01:40.48 | slaxxin | nice chain DAVE |
| 01:42.29 | slaxxin | so what is it tonight fso again? |
| 01:43.43 | slaxxin | openmoookooo is an ugly cow |
| 01:44.52 | ixs | I'll drink to that. |
| 01:45.22 | slaxxin | dave.. were drying up over here |
| 01:46.56 | slaxxin | wheres the free beer thats what i want |
| 01:47.26 | slaxxin | apt wheres the free beer |
| 01:47.59 | ixs | you'll be needing apt-cache |
| 01:48.33 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:49.11 | ixs | i see |
| 01:50.17 | slaxxin | d a v e |
| 01:50.27 | slaxxin | no napping |
| 01:51.22 | ixs | I'm afraid I can't do this. |
| 01:51.22 | ixs | is now known as hal |
| 01:51.22 | Dave | :) |
| 01:51.25 | slaxxin | yaaaa didit |
| 01:52.56 | BobOfDoom | apt: where is free beer? |
| 01:52.56 | apt | somebody said free beer was in the ice box behind the couch. Try also http://freebeer.org/ |
| 01:53.15 | slaxxin | ooo thank u |
| 01:53.21 | *** join/#openmoko cnwdup_ (n=harlekin@hnvr-4dbd59c5.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 01:54.12 | slaxxin | so whos the debian user here? |
| 01:54.21 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-151-145-146.range86-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 01:55.19 | gurugentoo | I'm using debian... |
| 01:55.23 | slaxxin | i have debian on sd an i wanna use the maps on /media/card/debian for tango on fdom/flash |
| 01:56.25 | gurugentoo | hmm, sorry I haven't used gps/tango yet |
| 01:56.39 | slaxxin | so i set the conf in tango to read maps from /media/card/root/maps? |
| 01:56.59 | *** part/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@host-125-92.lalacap.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 01:57.18 | gurugentoo | sounds correct |
| 01:59.19 | Dave | guru :) |
| 01:59.53 | *** join/#openmoko Ainulindale (n=ainu@calaquendi.org) |
| 02:00.10 | gurugentoo | Dave: hehe |
| 02:02.27 | *** join/#openmoko mgregson (n=mgregson@76-10-128-253.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 02:13.28 | Dave | :) |
| 02:27.20 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (n=jd@modemcable100.136-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 02:42.30 | *** join/#openmoko Shlee (n=MrShlee@122-49-160-52.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 02:42.31 | *** join/#openmoko dns53 (n=dns@ppp246-215.static.internode.on.net) |
| 02:46.24 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 02:51.54 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 02:54.06 | *** join/#openmoko dskippy (n=dskippy@209-6-23-199.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 03:02.23 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 03:05.49 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@host86-151-121-212.range86-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 03:10.37 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 03:12.11 | *** join/#openmoko ipa1 (n=Administ@219-81-230-16.dynamic.tfn.net.tw) |
| 03:12.17 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 03:19.46 | *** join/#openmoko awwaiid (i=awwaiid@c-98-218-2-221.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 03:27.13 | Dave | moo |
| 03:31.10 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=user@61.16.248.242) |
| 03:39.36 | *** part/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 03:39.46 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey-t (n=emonkey@static-pro-212-101-27-121.adsl.solnet.ch) |
| 03:54.23 | *** join/#openmoko jeffszusz (n=jeffsz@d57-97-215.home.cgocable.net) |
| 03:57.08 | *** part/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 04:03.23 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=root@mauve.plus.com) |
| 04:06.47 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 04:15.27 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-203-173.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 04:18.59 | slick666 | back all |
| 04:19.11 | slick666 | I figured out how to get qemu running |
| 04:19.42 | slick666 | but now that I have OM booted in qemu the os doesn't really do anything |
| 04:19.49 | slick666 | I can click on the icons |
| 04:20.04 | slick666 | but they don't do anything |
| 04:21.02 | slick666 | anyone else have this or am I just missing something |
| 04:23.38 | edistar | might just be super slow |
| 04:28.00 | nemik | slick666: is it just 4 icons at the bottom? |
| 04:28.19 | *** join/#openmoko arndot (n=arndt@port-92-196-74-164.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 04:28.29 | nemik | if so, you probably have an old firmware. there's instructions on getting a newer one at the bottom of the wiki for qemu |
| 04:28.48 | nemik | i tried today but the newer one wasn't working. |
| 04:37.43 | slick666 | yea |
| 04:37.54 | slick666 | it's just the 4 I cons |
| 04:39.27 | slick666 | I used the wiki to get the makefile |
| 04:39.42 | slick666 | it downloaded and built everything |
| 04:39.56 | slick666 | automatic to be sure |
| 04:40.10 | slick666 | but not too functional |
| 04:40.52 | mwester | Pretty cool for only 1 1/2 years of work, huh?!! |
| 04:41.04 | slick666 | yea |
| 04:41.12 | slick666 | it's an awsome idea |
| 04:41.45 | slick666 | I want to see it in action, but without the hardware :) |
| 04:42.18 | slick666 | is there a way to download and build the latest through the qemu makefile I have? |
| 04:46.38 | *** join/#openmoko data|2 (n=datachao@189.27.191.132.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 04:47.46 | *** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer2 (n=jr-N810@p5493C3BE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:49.00 | *** join/#openmoko Tetracomm (n=nicholas@72.252.29.2) |
| 05:12.53 | *** join/#openmoko aggtrfrad (n=nona@CPE0014bf3f862a-CM0018c0d9db72.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 05:16.21 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5f6de.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 05:20.28 | *** join/#openmoko dwb (n=david@pdpc/supporter/active/dwb) |
| 05:27.30 | *** join/#openmoko Cervajz (n=Cervajz@r9ha50.net.upc.cz) |
| 05:35.21 | *** join/#openmoko Tanuva (n=tanuva@e177226137.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 05:42.22 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 06:05.02 | *** join/#openmoko peter-b (n=peter_b@p5497A051.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:07.01 | *** join/#openmoko ColdFyre (n=coldfyre@c-98-234-65-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:19.22 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@220-136-186-246.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 06:19.37 | *** part/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@220-136-186-246.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 06:20.23 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (n=jd@modemcable100.136-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 06:37.33 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 06:40.02 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@85.182.50.5) |
| 06:45.41 | *** join/#openmoko Cervajz (n=Cervajz@r9ha50.net.upc.cz) |
| 06:47.04 | *** join/#openmoko ipa (n=Administ@219-81-229-51.dynamic.tfn.net.tw) |
| 06:53.20 | *** join/#openmoko lloyd_fedora (n=darkstar@86.99.34.14) |
| 06:53.31 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178062082.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 07:01.16 | tomboy64 | goood morning |
| 07:09.57 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 07:11.12 | *** join/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@host-125-92.lalacap.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 07:21.20 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 07:39.30 | *** join/#openmoko Ainulindale (n=ainu@calaquendi.org) |
| 07:41.40 | *** join/#openmoko Ke (n=jkarlson@siira.hut.fi) |
| 07:42.52 | Ke | does freerunner still have proper video drivers? |
| 07:45.21 | lindi- | Ke: still? |
| 07:45.31 | Ke | well yet |
| 07:47.13 | *** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 07:48.52 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E15DE1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:49.51 | *** join/#openmoko bipak (n=bip@p57B84A7A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:53.26 | kd8ikt_ | sdfff |
| 07:55.32 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@77.84-49-129.nextgentel.com) |
| 07:56.01 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 08:07.53 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 08:09.01 | *** join/#openmoko anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5B07F64C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:23.50 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-088-066-099-097.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:27.31 | *** join/#openmoko Pander (n=chatzill@ip235-130-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 08:32.20 | *** join/#openmoko quickdev (n=quickdev@p5B057C97.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:34.34 | *** join/#openmoko pazante (n=patrik@user113.77-105-224.netatonce.net) |
| 08:40.57 | *** join/#openmoko sdonk (n=alex@host175-102-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:43.10 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@e181116129.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 08:44.37 | *** join/#openmoko lloyd_fedora (n=darkstar@86.99.34.14) |
| 08:45.12 | *** join/#openmoko Ainulindale (n=ainu@calaquendi.org) |
| 08:48.02 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@c-7564e455.04-302-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 08:48.18 | *** join/#openmoko Flyser (n=flyser@dialin-145-254-178-246.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:49.42 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-39-174.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:50.28 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@85.182.50.5) |
| 08:50.41 | *** part/#openmoko lloyd_fedora (n=darkstar@86.99.34.14) |
| 08:52.14 | *** join/#openmoko holymoo (n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 08:59.13 | *** join/#openmoko s_p (n=s_p___@77.241.163.216) |
| 09:00.11 | *** join/#openmoko lijian (n=lijian@218.58.59.73) |
| 09:06.48 | *** join/#openmoko Ko_deZ (n=mt@062016213048.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 09:10.24 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-218-127-23.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:17.18 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-092-154.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 09:18.42 | *** join/#openmoko mlpug (n=username@a91-156-63-86.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 09:19.43 | *** join/#openmoko d-b (n=alias@124-168-156-177.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 09:19.50 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host52-51-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:20.35 | PBeck | hallo |
| 09:22.52 | *** part/#openmoko rawtatoor (n=rawtatoo@c-67-163-214-238.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 09:22.55 | *** join/#openmoko Spudm1 (n=aaron@122-57-182-76.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 09:24.01 | Sargun | heya |
| 09:24.13 | *** join/#openmoko Ainulindale (n=ainu@calaquendi.org) |
| 09:27.55 | *** part/#openmoko Spudm1 (n=aaron@122-57-182-76.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 09:35.12 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=almien@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 09:35.33 | *** join/#openmoko dns53 (n=dns@ppp246-215.static.internode.on.net) |
| 09:39.43 | *** join/#openmoko FredFokan (n=fred@39-15.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 09:41.22 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@90-227-33-55-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 09:42.28 | *** join/#openmoko HauDyr (n=kim@79.142.229.123.static.knet.bolignet.dk) |
| 09:43.18 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.18.197.116) |
| 09:44.18 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@94.36.121.222) |
| 09:48.21 | *** join/#openmoko Mek (n=marijn@93.157.1.37) |
| 09:50.34 | *** join/#openmoko ipa1 (n=Administ@219-86-104-156.dynamic.tfn.net.tw) |
| 09:55.56 | Shlee | Android Is Not Good Enough for Sprint.. |
| 09:56.14 | Shlee | ha ha.. like anything could make Sprint look worse |
| 09:56.29 | ronny | sprint? |
| 09:56.41 | cjb_ie | US cellco |
| 09:57.06 | *** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=chatzill@78-20-186-137.access.telenet.be) |
| 09:58.09 | *** join/#openmoko ipa2 (n=Administ@219-86-107-189.dynamic.tfn.net.tw) |
| 09:59.47 | *** join/#openmoko vinicius (n=vininim@189.26.194.69.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 10:07.55 | Dave | møø |
| 10:08.34 | *** join/#openmoko zogg_ (n=zogg@78-62-16-160.static.zebra.lt) |
| 10:09.11 | Pander | hi |
| 10:11.13 | ieatlint | dave, wtf are you doing awake? |
| 10:11.18 | Dave | :DDD |
| 10:11.37 | *** join/#openmoko pwerken (n=pwerken@83.119.198.36) |
| 10:12.15 | Dave | nice to see you too, lint :P |
| 10:14.11 | *** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.167.88.216) |
| 10:14.13 | *** join/#openmoko norro_ (n=norro@e181074109.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:14.57 | zogg_ | morning. |
| 10:17.03 | ieatlint | yeah, i'm unsure of why i'm up |
| 10:17.17 | ieatlint | except because it takes me 90min to get home, and i'm dreading it |
| 10:20.21 | *** join/#openmoko FredFoka1 (n=fred@39-15.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 10:20.59 | Dave | heh |
| 10:21.27 | *** join/#openmoko ipa (n=Administ@219-81-233-65.dynamic.tfn.net.tw) |
| 10:21.54 | *** join/#openmoko mac2k (n=mac2k@ip-88-152-137-48.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 10:23.42 | *** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net) |
| 10:23.57 | *** join/#openmoko Ainulind1le (n=ainu@calaquendi.org) |
| 10:24.36 | ieatlint | ok, so 20min till my bus comes |
| 10:25.19 | Dave | Hope it's accurate ;p |
| 10:33.45 | Dave | Have a nice ride, lint :) |
| 10:33.59 | ieatlint | thx, cya |
| 10:34.17 | *** join/#openmoko ipa1 (n=Administ@219-81-239-253.dynamic.tfn.net.tw) |
| 10:35.22 | *** join/#openmoko j4p13j0 (n=jaap@ip54-32-166-62.adsl.versatel.nl) |
| 10:36.39 | Dave | :) |
| 10:38.35 | *** join/#openmoko Ainulindale (n=ainu@calaquendi.org) |
| 10:39.00 | *** join/#openmoko Batchy (n=batchy@AVelizy-155-1-45-2.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:43.41 | *** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer2 (n=jr-N810@p5493C3BE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:47.08 | *** join/#openmoko haakeyar (n=haakeyar@cB83A4BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 10:49.37 | *** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@c80-216-18-41.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 10:53.47 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-084-057-083-157.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:59.08 | *** join/#openmoko Hire1 (n=hire@host131-236-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:00.00 | *** join/#openmoko mgww (n=mgww@193.170.133.214) |
| 11:02.51 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-75-74.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 11:03.11 | *** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host23-162-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:05.47 | *** join/#openmoko poetic (n=isak@dhcp-47-203.nomad.chalmers.se) |
| 11:05.55 | *** join/#openmoko zeev (n=zeev@CBL217-132-202-165.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 11:06.59 | zeev | do I understand it correctly - a successful porting of android to FR would mean resolving of all software problems and only hardware issues would remain? |
| 11:07.48 | rhkfin | depends how you define 'successful' I guess.. |
| 11:08.10 | viq | And if you don't count software problems with android... |
| 11:08.12 | zogg_ | kernel problems span through all distributions? |
| 11:08.17 | rhkfin | It might include fixing some kernel bugs or stuff.. |
| 11:08.44 | lindi- | zeev: what software issues are there? |
| 11:09.02 | zeev | viq: yes that I don't count since there are enough people to take care of it |
| 11:09.55 | viq | Are there? |
| 11:10.50 | raster | zeev: as much as a successful porting on qte to freerunner solves all software problems |
| 11:10.56 | zeev | lindi-: I don't know, since I don't have a FR, just consider buying one... thats why I'm asking... what about suspend/resume issue? |
| 11:12.31 | lindi- | zeev: it depends on whether you consider that software or hardware issue |
| 11:13.03 | lindi- | zeev: "first sector of SD card is corrupted on resume" is probably not going to be fixed by android? |
| 11:13.18 | lindi- | zeev: bugs in wlan driver are probably going to be fixed either |
| 11:13.59 | raster | u'll also have all the need to handle all the quirks of the gsm modem |
| 11:14.09 | raster | so all ta commandest controls by android will need a going-voer |
| 11:14.17 | raster | as every gsm modem has its own quirks and behaviors |
| 11:14.40 | raster | not to mention power usage |
| 11:14.46 | *** join/#openmoko khorben (n=raw@34.180.197-77.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 11:14.47 | raster | eg if android expects to suspend/resume |
| 11:14.59 | raster | or if it expects zero-clock like nokia use ont eh n770/800/810 |
| 11:15.07 | raster | oh there's a lot fo gotchas |
| 11:15.23 | raster | android isnt any big fix for them |
| 11:15.30 | raster | its just "yer another gui app stack" |
| 11:15.37 | raster | to compete with x11, qte |
| 11:15.54 | zeev | is gtk based? |
| 11:15.56 | *** join/#openmoko caratorn (n=aratorn@tui75-3-88-168-237-15.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:17.10 | raster | andorid? |
| 11:17.12 | lindi- | i just switched to icewm |
| 11:17.23 | zeev | yes, android |
| 11:17.27 | raster | no |
| 11:17.39 | raster | android is more like qte (qtopia) |
| 11:17.43 | raster | it has its own windowing system |
| 11:17.47 | raster | orn api' |
| 11:17.52 | raster | own api's/toolkits |
| 11:17.55 | zeev | ok, thanks |
| 11:17.59 | raster | which you need to write java code to use/access |
| 11:18.17 | viq | in short android is android-based ;) |
| 11:18.30 | raster | so if u want to develop for android - at this stage as best i know - it's done with the language and compiler/toolkit they specify/give you in the sdk |
| 11:18.32 | raster | or not at all |
| 11:19.30 | zeev | ok, than I'll still have to wait to a properly working FR :( |
| 11:19.37 | DocScrutinizer2 | have much fun on porting standard X-apps tehn! |
| 11:20.02 | raster | ugh |
| 11:20.21 | raster | i have no like of all these "lets do our own windowing / display system" os-efforts |
| 11:20.30 | raster | it fragments things greatly |
| 11:20.34 | raster | if everyone stuck to x11 |
| 11:20.47 | DocScrutinizer2 | yo |
| 11:20.50 | raster | then u'd at least be able to run the majority of apps from one "system" on another |
| 11:20.53 | raster | eg qt apps in x11 |
| 11:20.54 | raster | or gtk app |
| 11:20.58 | raster | or normal java apps |
| 11:21.06 | raster | OR android... i they played ball |
| 11:21.52 | DocScrutinizer2 | guess why OM/TT ported qt to X |
| 11:22.27 | DocScrutinizer2 | qtopia that is |
| 11:23.07 | raster | well m,ostly because sean/wil/wolfgang loves qtopia |
| 11:23.11 | raster | and wanted it |
| 11:23.28 | raster | but at the same time just using it withotu x means alienating a huge number of devs |
| 11:23.33 | raster | basically forcing them int c++ and qt |
| 11:23.47 | raster | so either u write/port/whatever an xserver for qtopia |
| 11:23.53 | raster | or u port qte to x |
| 11:23.53 | DocScrutinizer2 | so they had to use X |
| 11:24.02 | raster | the 2nd makes more sense in the long term |
| 11:24.27 | DocScrutinizer2 | android is no X |
| 11:24.39 | raster | nup |
| 11:24.43 | raster | it's got its own world |
| 11:25.41 | DocScrutinizer2 | its basically a smartphone world, no computer os |
| 11:27.13 | DocScrutinizer2 | FR is designed to be a computer that incidentally can do phonecalls using the GPRSmodem |
| 11:28.12 | leinirAWAY | It really ought to be marketed more in that direction :) |
| 11:28.52 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-39-174.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:30.42 | raster | DocScrutinizer2: its 2 very different philospohies on development yes |
| 11:30.43 | *** join/#openmoko RedFlash (n=RedFlash@host161-56-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:30.48 | raster | android comes from the phone-world |
| 11:30.53 | raster | where they think like a phone |
| 11:31.01 | raster | not like a "desktop os" |
| 11:31.06 | raster | ie all apps are fullscreen |
| 11:31.23 | DocScrutinizer2 | fb |
| 11:31.23 | raster | a lot of apps literally do and AHVE to take over the screen |
| 11:31.27 | raster | 1 process at a tiem on the screen |
| 11:31.38 | raster | to display the signal strength/battery meter while a process is up |
| 11:31.44 | raster | each process has to do it themselves |
| 11:31.53 | DocScrutinizer2 | lol |
| 11:31.56 | raster | instead of a windowing system where that stuff is take care of by something else |
| 11:32.09 | raster | thats the last time i looked at some of the phone "os"'s out there |
| 11:32.17 | raster | multitasking was unknown :) |
| 11:32.22 | raster | well ok - for back-end stuff |
| 11:32.32 | raster | for the front end its 1 process to rul them al for the whole screen |
| 11:32.38 | raster | not sure about android's details tho |
| 11:32.40 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-218-127-23.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:32.42 | leinir | That's not what android does, they do have a framing system and such, each app has a viewport, not the full screen |
| 11:32.47 | raster | but they are coming from that world |
| 11:32.48 | raster | :) |
| 11:32.51 | leinir | They are more a java type thing, really |
| 11:32.56 | leinir | Each program is a sandbox |
| 11:33.13 | raster | as i said |
| 11:33.16 | raster | not sure about androiud |
| 11:33.25 | pelifante | each program is coded by an android |
| 11:33.26 | raster | but i get thje feeling it comes much more from that world |
| 11:33.36 | raster | than from the x/linux/desktop world |
| 11:33.44 | leinir | Yeah, it does come from that world :) |
| 11:34.06 | *** join/#openmoko bipak_ (n=bip@p57B837D5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:34.07 | leinir | The window management is a full-screen concept (a tiling wm with only one tile, essentially) |
| 11:34.54 | raster | yeah |
| 11:34.56 | raster | thats my point |
| 11:35.02 | raster | its better than the others i've seen |
| 11:35.07 | raster | years ago |
| 11:35.20 | raster | but still a different world |
| 11:35.29 | DocScrutinizer2 | only runs java though |
| 11:35.34 | leinir | It's kind of what ASU does, right? |
| 11:35.50 | Ke | still is there anyone who would like to use an app less than fullscreen on a freerunner or so |
| 11:35.57 | leinir | It *can* show windowed windows as well, but programs run in full size unless something odd happens :) |
| 11:35.57 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178062082.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:36.03 | Ke | the display is quite minimal |
| 11:36.50 | DocScrutinizer2 | ke: thats not the point |
| 11:37.15 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r69f31318b901 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py: ousaged: readd os import and ~lart pychecker. Thanks quickdev |
| 11:37.17 | leinir | , |
| 11:37.25 | DocScrutinizer2 | try porting any of ur fav apps to android :-/ |
| 11:37.29 | leinir | oops, arm on keyboard ;) |
| 11:37.34 | tomboy64 | i'm a bit annoyed http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1718 |
| 11:37.44 | tomboy64 | a wee bit only :-D |
| 11:38.39 | zash | DocScrutinizer2: aka rewriting in java |
| 11:38.49 | DocScrutinizer2 | yup |
| 11:39.08 | raster | Ke: it all depends on the app. |
| 11:39.10 | raster | for example |
| 11:39.12 | leinir | zash: More than that, you have to most likely rethink the program structure as well |
| 11:39.19 | raster | i could handle having a music player take 1/3 the screen |
| 11:39.38 | raster | and the bottom 2/3 could be a news feed i'm reading |
| 11:39.54 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 11:39.57 | Ke | ok |
| 11:39.59 | *** join/#openmoko Gyb (n=Gyb@f053155177.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:40.01 | raster | also u assume the FR and its screen size |
| 11:40.06 | raster | if u think more generically |
| 11:40.11 | raster | imagine a phone with the screen the n800 has |
| 11:40.16 | raster | 800x480 4.3" |
| 11:40.22 | pelifante | DocScrutinizer2: well, java apps should port well.. the other apps.. if all of their dependencies are installed (glibc, etc..) should run ok outside the jvm i think |
| 11:40.24 | raster | u could quite haoppily share 2 apps on that any day |
| 11:40.31 | raster | :) |
| 11:41.03 | Ke | well I still wouldn't |
| 11:41.17 | DocScrutinizer2 | pelifante: and how do they display? |
| 11:41.18 | Ke | but I guess someone would |
| 11:41.26 | raster | no need to preclude by design |
| 11:41.33 | raster | make it a config option |
| 11:41.46 | pelifante | DocScrutinizer2: hum.. good question :p |
| 11:41.56 | pelifante | DocScrutinizer2: fortunately all my favourite apps are command line :P |
| 11:42.31 | DocScrutinizer2 | pelifante: so go look for a java based xterm then :-P |
| 11:42.37 | *** join/#openmoko Proton23 (n=proton@p57BA5494.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:43.00 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@62.57.49.116) |
| 11:43.36 | pelifante | java term |
| 11:43.55 | DocScrutinizer2 | or simpy press ctrl-alt-F2 :D |
| 11:43.55 | pelifante | someone implemented a unix kernel in java, i wonder if it would run in the android vm |
| 11:44.46 | DocScrutinizer2 | like qemu running windoze - lol |
| 11:44.52 | tomboy64 | lol |
| 11:45.07 | *** join/#openmoko ipa (n=Administ@219-86-107-18.dynamic.tfn.net.tw) |
| 11:46.16 | *** join/#openmoko gnu{- (n=gnu@quiet.toad.com) |
| 11:47.45 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176096212.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:48.20 | *** join/#openmoko sdonk (n=alex@host175-102-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:49.50 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=almien@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 11:50.45 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03niklas.coding 07libframeworkd-glib * r5dc148e22bab 10/src/ogsmd/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Adjusted sms functions. |
| 11:51.14 | *** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer (n=jr@p5493C3BE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:52.09 | swetland | raster: I'm not a framework guy, but my understanding is the windowmanager policy is designed to be pluggable, such that one could implement something other than one fullscreen app at a time. the surfaceflinger (compositor) certainly is quite happy to deal with any number of arbitrary sized overlapping surfaces |
| 11:52.59 | leinir | swetland: android? |
| 11:53.50 | swetland | nods |
| 11:53.55 | raster | swetland: thats cool |
| 11:54.32 | swetland | the intent is to be open to support less traditional phone-centric devices and profiles, though obviously 1.0 was largely built around traditional phone interfaces |
| 11:55.26 | swetland | I imagine we'll have to shake some bugs out when people start exploring other uses, but the bones of the framework provide for 'em |
| 11:55.31 | leinir | i did get that vibe from the presentation video on source.android.com :) |
| 11:56.09 | swetland | one of the appealing parts of doing this open source (a bunch of us worked on hiptop/sidekick, webtv, etc in past lives) is building tools to use for future projects |
| 11:56.40 | swetland | and hopefully some stuff that other folks will find useful too |
| 11:56.45 | *** join/#openmoko xiangfu (n=xiangfu@125.96.8.141) |
| 11:57.02 | raster | saweare you going to allow native dev? |
| 11:57.07 | raster | ie non dex/java based? |
| 11:57.14 | raster | ie expose apis' with standard symbols? |
| 11:57.26 | swetland | so, the system itself is designed to support multiple runtime environments |
| 11:57.38 | swetland | we don't rely on the vm for any real security -- that's handled at the linux process level |
| 11:58.22 | swetland | for 1.0, we're putting together an NDK (native dev kit) which will provide tools for assembling shared libs for bundling in apks (android packages / apps) to extend stuff with native code |
| 11:58.45 | swetland | that works today (you can bundle a .so with an app, have it provide extensions via jni, etc) |
| 11:58.59 | raster | the other way around |
| 11:59.08 | raster | standard c app can just run and display |
| 11:59.21 | swetland | that's further out, but something I'd like to see too. will probably happen in phases. |
| 11:59.35 | raster | i'll wait until that day :) |
| 11:59.51 | swetland | what I'm pushing for first is a sort of "gamekit" native api, providing display surfaces, events, audio path, etc |
| 12:00.18 | swetland | and then building up from there with the remoted stuff for access to data (the content providers, etc) |
| 12:01.07 | *** join/#openmoko ipa2 (n=Administ@219-86-106-96.dynamic.tfn.net.tw) |
| 12:01.08 | raster | chances are tho... it's just too much of "yet another display system and platform to support" |
| 12:01.14 | raster | i'm already drowining in them |
| 12:01.18 | raster | i need to trim them down actually |
| 12:01.22 | swetland | we're prepared to support the java language apis for 1.0+, have tools to verify compatibility, error the build out on breakage, etc. the native stuff is not ready to be frozen at this point |
| 12:01.26 | swetland | nods |
| 12:02.26 | swetland | I'd love to see other runtimes / native apps in other toolkits running side by side as first class citizens in the system, longer term |
| 12:02.44 | *** join/#openmoko khaije1 (n=khaije@unaffiliated/khaije1) |
| 12:03.00 | raster | so far support: win32 (gdi, d3d) wince (fb), sdl, x11, xcb, xrender, gl, qtopia, quartz, directfb... |
| 12:03.00 | swetland | we had to pick our battles for 1.0 so we could actually ship |
| 12:03.06 | raster | and thats a pain to maintain |
| 12:03.12 | swetland | nods |
| 12:03.36 | raster | shcnaes are a gl-es enigne will pop up soon - so i'm goign to have to rationalize soon enough |
| 12:03.47 | swetland | saw something about enlightenment and a new lightweight toolkit thing running in 32MB -- is that baseline just for the wm/toolkit, or actually running apps in 32MB? |
| 12:04.05 | raster | swetland: apps runing |
| 12:04.10 | swetland | nice |
| 12:04.16 | raster | swetland: baseline for e+x+all the other linux goop is 17m |
| 12:04.25 | raster | no wait |
| 12:04.26 | raster | wrong |
| 12:04.27 | raster | 12m |
| 12:04.33 | swetland | what size display? |
| 12:04.34 | raster | (excluding kernel) |
| 12:04.44 | raster | got 17m free |
| 12:04.47 | raster | on a 32m box |
| 12:04.49 | raster | 320x320 |
| 12:05.09 | *** join/#openmoko methril|laptop (n=methril@38.72.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 12:05.09 | raster | it just works autoamtically on pretty much everything from qvga up to 800x4800.. and higher |
| 12:05.20 | *** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD47CEC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:05.29 | raster | i've done some effort lately to support full dpi adjusting/scaling |
| 12:05.42 | tomboy64 | might it be that assassin is broken? |
| 12:05.48 | swetland | does it support some level of double buffering or other fun to avoid tearing / watching-the-ui-repaint? |
| 12:05.55 | raster | i test on 240x320, 272x480, 320x320, 640x480, 480,640, 800x480 |
| 12:06.08 | raster | (at variuos real-life dpi's) |
| 12:06.18 | raster | aah no |
| 12:06.20 | raster | no compositing |
| 12:06.21 | swetland | that's something that drives me nuts about winmo and the stuff that runs on the nokia tablets -- constantly seeing flashes of white / partially drawn gunk |
| 12:06.23 | tomboy64 | i did an upgrade via opkg and since then it complains whenever i start it that it can't get the repos |
| 12:06.24 | raster | thats on the plans for e18 |
| 12:06.39 | raster | and when i do it the compositor will try and vsync composites |
| 12:06.39 | swetland | nods |
| 12:06.42 | tomboy64 | but upkg update/upgrade and everything else from the cli works fine |
| 12:06.44 | raster | if it can get reliable vsync info |
| 12:06.51 | raster | if not - make sure at least updates are synced |
| 12:06.57 | raster | even if off-sync to vsync |
| 12:06.58 | raster | :) |
| 12:07.11 | raster | i can limit excessive draws |
| 12:07.18 | raster | eg if an app draw > refresh rate of screen |
| 12:07.24 | raster | dont bother compositing any faster than that |
| 12:07.34 | raster | also coallate updates to be at the same time |
| 12:07.35 | raster | eg |
| 12:07.57 | raster | app one draw at frame 1.3, app2 at 1.6 and app 3at 1.8 - u'll see the upsates meregs at frame 2 of all 3 |
| 12:08.06 | raster | rather than it try and do 3 separate updates |
| 12:08.13 | raster | it shoudl make compositing "sane" |
| 12:08.15 | swetland | one big reason we went with the compositor model was to avoid partial draws and also ensure that one app being slow doesn't hold up other apps (don't want the incall stuff to drag if the fg app is having issues) |
| 12:08.24 | raster | excluding the need for either a really godo software compositor |
| 12:08.32 | raster | or really good xrender fallbacks.. or hardware accel |
| 12:08.33 | raster | :) |
| 12:08.46 | swetland | it costs us in memory (main fb double buffered, windows double buffered), but the system can always draw if it needs to, which is nice |
| 12:08.56 | raster | yeah |
| 12:08.59 | raster | i understand |
| 12:09.12 | raster | inf act elementary (toolkit ui for this stuff) double-buffer sitself by default |
| 12:09.21 | raster | the whole window has a backing pixmap |
| 12:09.35 | raster | but u still miss fancy compositing effects without a compositor |
| 12:09.40 | swetland | is looking forward to the mobile chipset folks finally moving to gpu hw that can handle multiple contexts |
| 12:09.47 | raster | it'll turn off its own double-buffering if it detetcs a real composite manager |
| 12:10.02 | swetland | we *really* wanted to use the gpu for both the compositor and the fg app on the msm7201a but it just wasn't possible |
| 12:10.33 | raster | well it all depends |
| 12:10.35 | raster | its always possible |
| 12:10.38 | raster | but is it "sane" ? |
| 12:10.39 | raster | :) |
| 12:10.57 | raster | ie u'd have to shadow the full context of any process drawing |
| 12:10.58 | swetland | well, if we had more time we could have funneled all gl ops through a server |
| 12:11.10 | raster | and on a switch - restore your current context |
| 12:11.15 | Flyser | raster: can you explain why x11-16 works on your latest image, while it doesn't on other builds like the FSO images? |
| 12:11.19 | raster | but that could be incredibly expensive |
| 12:11.31 | raster | u'd also need to sync /flush operations etc. |
| 12:11.44 | swetland | the gpu architecture itself and the requirement for the driver to be in userspace caused some massive security headaches if 2 clients, especially 1 trusted, 1 not, had accesl at the same time |
| 12:12.04 | raster | yeah |
| 12:12.09 | raster | the direct access is the problem |
| 12:12.12 | raster | as u said |
| 12:12.16 | dolf1074 | bricode: are you there? |
| 12:12.22 | raster | if u indirected thru a server (egt x) u'd have no problem |
| 12:12.23 | raster | BUT |
| 12:12.29 | raster | u'd pay for it in performance |
| 12:12.35 | swetland | yeah |
| 12:12.38 | raster | for thigns that do large operatiosn but not many |
| 12:12.47 | raster | (eg compositing and drawing of large blobs of stuff) it'd be fine |
| 12:13.05 | raster | those that like to pump zillions of small poly's and ops at the gfx system will suffer |
| 12:13.26 | raster | Flyser: not sure really. i havent looke dat what the others do - i just have ensured i build stuff correctly :) |
| 12:13.28 | swetland | anyone in contact in the folks hacking on v4t support / android-on-freerunner? ben leslie's been doing a bunch of good work on that and has a discussion underway on build system improvements: |
| 12:13.32 | swetland | http://groups.google.com/group/android-porting/browse_thread/thread/5edf8d06370f0d7 |
| 12:13.51 | swetland | which may be of interest to them, if they haven't already done all of this themselves |
| 12:13.55 | raster | swetland: i kind of hoep at some point someone comes up with a android-display-system-on-x11 layer |
| 12:14.06 | raster | ie maps android primitives to x11 ones |
| 12:14.10 | raster | so everyone can play together |
| 12:14.13 | raster | al lat the same time |
| 12:14.14 | raster | :) |
| 12:14.19 | swetland | raster: I think it'd be easier to stack x11 on the android compositor |
| 12:14.24 | swetland | but in theory you could go either way |
| 12:14.43 | raster | i'm biased |
| 12:14.44 | raster | :) |
| 12:14.51 | swetland | no surprise |
| 12:14.55 | raster | i like to see x on the bottom :) |
| 12:15.32 | swetland | does x have a non-single-threaded server design that allows for simultaneous drawing from multiple clients these days? |
| 12:15.40 | swetland | I'm totally out of touch as far as recent developments there |
| 12:15.46 | raster | umm |
| 12:15.47 | raster | no |
| 12:15.54 | raster | but... umm... why does that matter? |
| 12:16.13 | swetland | we like to not have situations where one client ends up starving others, etc |
| 12:16.21 | raster | x rotates through the request queues from all clients |
| 12:16.29 | raster | it tries to give them equal love |
| 12:16.31 | raster | the problem isnt x |
| 12:16.33 | raster | its the drviers |
| 12:16.36 | raster | eg |
| 12:16.37 | swetland | ah |
| 12:16.44 | raster | the driver will stall and block waiting for a "big" op to finish |
| 12:16.50 | raster | before going on |
| 12:16.57 | raster | as such drivers shoudl use command queues |
| 12:17.10 | raster | and ebvery x request gets translated into 1 or more command-queue ops |
| 12:17.16 | raster | most gfx chips canty do multile ops at once |
| 12:17.19 | raster | they do 1 op |
| 12:17.28 | swetland | yeah |
| 12:17.29 | raster | and wqithin that 1 op can parallelise it to "Get it done really fast" |
| 12:17.36 | raster | some do have multiple ones |
| 12:17.47 | raster | but then u will see the same problems - contention for shared resoruces anyway |
| 12:18.04 | raster | so x doesnt need to become multi-threaded internally |
| 12:18.11 | raster | its simpler and better the way it is |
| 12:18.18 | raster | guarantees state and consitency nicely |
| 12:18.32 | raster | but it just needs to be better at asynchronously handing off stuff to the driver/gfx layer |
| 12:18.42 | raster | and doing a "fire and forget" kind of thing |
| 12:19.09 | raster | and come back to the command-queue shadow every now and again to make sure the command-que doesnt grow out fo control |
| 12:19.21 | raster | (ie limit the size and then block if the command-que is full and needs draining) |
| 12:19.58 | raster | as such - in my experience i've never been able to starve x with 1 client |
| 12:19.59 | raster | ever |
| 12:20.05 | raster | UNLESS the driver is arse |
| 12:20.29 | swetland | how minimal is this E17 stuff? is it a self contained toolkit or used in conjunction with gtk or something else? |
| 12:20.43 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-155-247-223.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:20.53 | raster | (eg its a sloooow software fallback for things like gl or xrender and so u have to wait for a really slow blob of code to do the software version of the op) |
| 12:21.06 | raster | swetland: e is pretty self-contained |
| 12:21.17 | raster | e itself is a wm - the usual more old-style |
| 12:21.22 | raster | but with a tonne of built-ins |
| 12:21.24 | *** join/#openmoko hama_ (n=hama@p5084C603.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:21.27 | raster | eg widget set/toolkit |
| 12:21.28 | raster | filemanager |
| 12:21.36 | raster | all its own config dialogs and plugin system etc. |
| 12:21.54 | raster | the libs written for it are of course separated out as stand-alone libs |
| 12:22.13 | raster | and can (And are) used outside of the wm (and all these libs are what has sucked up dev time for e17 and why it's taking forever) |
| 12:22.22 | raster | elementary is just a shared lib |
| 12:22.25 | raster | like gtk or qt |
| 12:22.31 | raster | but it build on the efl libs |
| 12:22.38 | raster | i make maximum use of them |
| 12:22.45 | raster | a widget is about 50-300 lines of c code |
| 12:22.54 | swetland | nods |
| 12:22.56 | raster | so widgets are tiny affairs that are brain-dead easy to crank out |
| 12:23.05 | raster | evas/edje etc. take care fo the rest |
| 12:23.14 | raster | so efl is more liek a toolkit building toolkit |
| 12:23.21 | raster | its so easy to write a toolkit usign it |
| 12:23.25 | raster | peolpe keep writing more of them |
| 12:23.29 | swetland | I'll have to check it out sometime |
| 12:23.33 | raster | and each one gets smaller/simpler |
| 12:23.47 | swetland | something I'm interested in is going very very lightweight (32MB and below) |
| 12:23.57 | raster | unlike gtk and qt the state engine and drawing is abstracted entirely out of the toolkit itself |
| 12:24.02 | raster | event loop etc. too |
| 12:24.13 | swetland | smartphones are fun, but heading down into the much less expensive mass market chipset range is interesting |
| 12:24.39 | swetland | interesting |
| 12:24.39 | raster | so all u do is implement a higher level policy and set of layouts/ideas and logical groupings of features |
| 12:24.47 | raster | yeah phone are fun |
| 12:24.52 | raster | my treo650 is my "low end" platform |
| 12:24.53 | Wonka | swetland: for chinese values of "interesting"? |
| 12:24.57 | raster | basically my theory is |
| 12:25.00 | raster | if it works there |
| 12:25.02 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkman (i=Zorkman@dD57719B4.access.telenet.be) |
| 12:25.03 | raster | and i can run apps |
| 12:25.06 | raster | and make calsl and do sms's |
| 12:25.14 | raster | i have covered all i need to on the low end |
| 12:25.21 | raster | everythnig else from there is just luxury |
| 12:25.30 | raster | i shoudl get my pandora soon |
| 12:25.49 | raster | and i'll be gettign a 6410 (Samsung) based device soon with gl-es libs |
| 12:26.00 | swetland | hiptop1 was fun. 24mhz arm7, 16mb ram. these modern devices feel luxurious by comparison |
| 12:26.11 | raster | so thats definitely gettign the high-end covered |
| 12:26.21 | raster | swetland: HAHAHAAH wow |
| 12:26.22 | Kensan | raster: pandora should be shipping mid november afaik... |
| 12:26.24 | raster | ok thats small |
| 12:26.39 | swetland | raster: the *fun* part was we did almost all of it in java and it actually was pretty snappy |
| 12:26.45 | raster | Kensan: yeha - i have a slight complication in that i have to move address betwene now and december 15 |
| 12:26.54 | raster | so its going to need soem redirecting of packages |
| 12:27.20 | Kensan | raster: oh hope that works out ok :( |
| 12:27.21 | raster | swetland: i will admit now. after some bad experiences with java - i swore off ever touching it ever again. :) |
| 12:27.30 | swetland | and while I do love little homebrew kernels, it's fun to have linux this time around, kernelwise |
| 12:27.43 | swetland | raster: the language is not too bad, the libraries annoy the crap out of me |
| 12:28.23 | swetland | if you throw away almost everything but the bare minimum java.lang stuff, and build your own toolkits, and keep it simple and light it can work really nicely (which is what we did on hiptop) |
| 12:28.27 | raster | swetland: hmm i foudn the vm to be arsetastic |
| 12:28.32 | raster | and gc |
| 12:28.39 | raster | the api - i was 'meh" on |
| 12:28.47 | raster | i just was pissed off |
| 12:29.00 | *** join/#openmoko oon (n=oon@pdpc/supporter/base/oon) |
| 12:29.00 | raster | i HAD to sue java for my pet subject - computer graphics (at university) |
| 12:29.15 | swetland | yeah, not exactly the best match |
| 12:29.20 | raster | and the best way to piss me off is to force me to use somethng that was not apprioriate on my pet subject |
| 12:29.26 | swetland | especially in the earlier days of java and the hw at the time |
| 12:29.28 | raster | before i started comp gfx |
| 12:29.33 | raster | i had written a 3d texture mapping enigne |
| 12:29.48 | raster | (those days when quake came out and everyone wanted to write their own quake engine? those days) |
| 12:29.57 | raster | so i had one that did 40-50fps in 320x240 |
| 12:30.00 | raster | textures, gouraud shading |
| 12:30.05 | raster | lens flare |
| 12:30.07 | raster | 16bit gfx |
| 12:30.10 | raster | in x11 - in a window |
| 12:30.16 | raster | it ran on my p120 at the time wonderfully |
| 12:30.19 | swetland | nice |
| 12:30.21 | raster | used about 1mb of ram |
| 12:30.33 | raster | BUT |
| 12:30.39 | raster | then i had to use java |
| 12:30.41 | raster | simialr window |
| 12:30.44 | raster | 1fps |
| 12:30.59 | raster | flat polygons (no texture - what. textures didnt exist back then!) |
| 12:31.07 | raster | and the thing needd 70mb of ram |
| 12:31.22 | raster | because the gc wouldnt clena up until i put in sleeps every few seconds to let it |
| 12:31.32 | raster | no mater how many refrences i set to NULL |
| 12:31.35 | raster | it wouldnt clean |
| 12:31.44 | raster | and as of that day.. i swore never to touch java again |
| 12:31.48 | raster | :) |
| 12:31.53 | swetland | a couple years ago, when I was taking a break after danger and before android, I spent some time fiddling with opengl on linux for the first time since I did gl on irix back in school |
| 12:31.59 | swetland | s/irix/iris/ |
| 12:32.19 | swetland | and wow, mediocre gpus these days amaze me. total luxury |
| 12:32.32 | raster | yeah |
| 12:32.49 | raster | the proiblem is a lot of that luxury is trapped behind closed and often crappy libs |
| 12:32.52 | raster | (gl) |
| 12:33.03 | raster | not the gl api |
| 12:33.06 | raster | but the implementation of it |
| 12:33.13 | raster | eg software paths for thigns that SHOULD be a hw path |
| 12:33.15 | raster | nothng u can do |
| 12:33.17 | swetland | had cobbled together a little model loader, demo dealie. it was just crazy fast, hundreds of fps... turned on textures for shits and grins... no drop in speed. didn't even blink |
| 12:33.40 | raster | things like not working with x properly and getting out of sync or getting clip regions wrong |
| 12:33.57 | raster | like 2d and 3d subsystems basically ignoring eachothers existence at all |
| 12:34.01 | swetland | haven't had a chance to play with shader stuff. next time I take some serious time off, I need to catch up on the state of the art on gpu stuff |
| 12:34.04 | raster | whereas pixmaps SHOULD be textures |
| 12:34.17 | raster | windows SHOULD just be quads with the texture drawn in it |
| 12:34.17 | raster | etc. |
| 12:34.28 | swetland | yeah, that'd be nice |
| 12:34.28 | raster | so 2d and 3d should be the same thing |
| 12:34.53 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@fsf/member/zedstar) |
| 12:34.57 | raster | i've been waiting for this since like 1998 |
| 12:35.09 | swetland | I'm encouraged that we're starting to see vendors address the multicontext issues |
| 12:35.33 | raster | i think i was claiming back then "thats where the future is - 2d will just use the 3d engine - all it needs is for 3d to do all the basics 2d needs and then just "get on with it" |
| 12:35.40 | raster | yeah |
| 12:35.41 | swetland | not all of them, and not always well, but at least we're moving a bit away from "only one guy can muck with the gpu at a time" |
| 12:35.46 | raster | or at leats suport fast context switchingt |
| 12:35.54 | raster | instead of doing it all in software higher up |
| 12:35.55 | swetland | yah |
| 12:36.19 | raster | being able to read/write a context blob as a dumb blob of ram too for when u run out of hardware context slots |
| 12:36.40 | *** join/#openmoko ptitjes (n=didier@93.2.7.240) |
| 12:36.50 | *** join/#openmoko valos[fr] (n=valos@mar92-6-82-227-150-198.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:36.59 | *** join/#openmoko morphis (n=morphis@p5489870F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:37.37 | raster | i'm hoping it improves |
| 12:37.48 | raster | tho doing cool software rendering is fun |
| 12:37.52 | swetland | I should pick up a freerunner sometime and check out whatever the latest shiny is from you guys |
| 12:37.57 | raster | it gets boring after a while |
| 12:37.58 | raster | then again |
| 12:38.03 | raster | gfx hw is doing as full circule |
| 12:38.09 | raster | went from cpu doing gfx |
| 12:38.19 | raster | to specialised fixed-func silicon |
| 12:38.19 | swetland | I've been heads down on our stuff for almost 4 years now, not spending much time looking at the other stuff going on |
| 12:38.26 | raster | now gfx chips are general purpose "cpu's |
| 12:38.28 | raster | doing gfx |
| 12:38.33 | raster | and everyone si doing gfx in shaders |
| 12:38.42 | swetland | nods. the industry does keep going cyclical |
| 12:38.55 | raster | it wont be long before gfx chips are just massively parallel chips with simple cores and direct ram access |
| 12:38.58 | raster | in fact... |
| 12:39.06 | raster | i am working on one of those |
| 12:39.09 | raster | a co-processor |
| 12:39.10 | swetland | as stuff moves off to specialized hw, back on to cpus, etc |
| 12:39.14 | raster | it isnt even claiming to be a gfx chip |
| 12:39.17 | raster | its a ram chip |
| 12:39.32 | raster | literally 180nm dram - 8MB |
| 12:39.41 | raster | with cpu's on it runing at hihg clockrate |
| 12:39.48 | swetland | fun |
| 12:39.53 | raster | u turn it into a gfx chip just with some code |
| 12:40.14 | Wonka | 180nm - fucking big stuff! |
| 12:40.52 | Wonka | raster: there needs to be some output engine too - a ramdac or something |
| 12:41.04 | *** join/#openmoko Octy92 (n=octy@77.242.188.73) |
| 12:41.55 | raster | Wonka: i know. and even at 180nm my quick "apples vs apples" comparison put 1 of its cores at about 70% the speed of the 2442 in the fr at 400mhz |
| 12:42.03 | raster | and it has 4 cores |
| 12:42.09 | raster | and thats a first-gen chip |
| 12:42.14 | raster | it also uses all of 32mw |
| 12:42.22 | raster | and.. costs a fraction of even what the glamo costs |
| 12:42.23 | raster | :) |
| 12:42.41 | Wonka | what do we need the 2442 for? |
| 12:42.54 | raster | technially u dont |
| 12:43.01 | Wonka | :) |
| 12:43.04 | raster | they're also looking at runing a complete os/system on it |
| 12:43.15 | raster | but its firsat intent was a drop-in dram chip |
| 12:43.19 | raster | u solder it on like any dram |
| 12:43.23 | raster | no differnt |
| 12:43.34 | raster | and the ram is just mapped in your memory space |
| 12:43.40 | raster | and u write to it from the cpu |
| 12:43.45 | raster | feed it data to process |
| 12:43.51 | raster | get it back when its done |
| 12:44.09 | raster | its a first-gen |
| 12:44.15 | raster | the next gen is much mroe interesting |
| 12:44.24 | Wonka | i seem to have missed what actual chip you are talking about... |
| 12:44.27 | raster | as its goign to drop its process down |
| 12:44.32 | raster | up clockrate a lot |
| 12:44.36 | raster | and # of cores will explode |
| 12:44.37 | methril|laptop | what are you talking about? i'm missing some hw? |
| 12:44.37 | Wonka | even better |
| 12:44.52 | raster | ie 64MB not 8, 64 processors, and 1ghz |
| 12:45.01 | raster | thats the 2nd gen |
| 12:45.02 | Wonka | with 32mW? |
| 12:45.09 | raster | higher |
| 12:45.15 | raster | itds 8mw per core in the existign design |
| 12:45.17 | raster | well less than 8 |
| 12:45.25 | Wonka | still, if it's less than the 2442... |
| 12:45.26 | *** join/#openmoko poetic (n=isak@dhcp-47-203.nomad.chalmers.se) |
| 12:45.29 | raster | 8 is a pessimistic side |
| 12:45.40 | raster | it should use msaybe half that per core |
| 12:45.43 | raster | so 4mw/core |
| 12:45.47 | raster | 4*64 (256mw) |
| 12:45.54 | Wonka | still big fun |
| 12:46.03 | raster | so at 1ghz |
| 12:46.09 | Wonka | and cores that are not in use will not use power, i think |
| 12:46.25 | raster | thats about 89 2442's worth of compute |
| 12:46.30 | raster | at 256mw |
| 12:46.37 | Wonka | yeah. gta04? ;) |
| 12:46.39 | raster | and yes |
| 12:46.43 | raster | cores can be stopped |
| 12:46.46 | raster | and not use power |
| 12:46.54 | raster | the problem is as a core os chip it has gotchas |
| 12:47.02 | raster | rueght now no mmu |
| 12:47.10 | raster | so no way to do virtual memory or memory protextion |
| 12:47.13 | raster | no interrupts |
| 12:47.18 | Wonka | mmh |
| 12:47.21 | raster | its missing a lot of thnigs |
| 12:47.30 | methril|laptop | do you have any link? |
| 12:47.33 | raster | but as a cop-rocessor u throw stuff at to munch away on |
| 12:47.35 | methril|laptop | i'd like to take a look |
| 12:47.39 | raster | its really promising |
| 12:47.44 | raster | nup |
| 12:47.48 | raster | sorry |
| 12:47.55 | raster | you should know more details in a few months |
| 12:47.57 | Wonka | but it might be possible to hand it much stuff to do that the host processor wouldn't need to do then so it can sleep more often? |
| 12:48.02 | methril|laptop | and some reference? |
| 12:48.22 | raster | patent application |
| 12:48.29 | methril|laptop | oh!! as allways :( |
| 12:48.53 | Wonka | patented proc doesn't mean non-free docs automatically... |
| 12:49.04 | raster | it doesnt |
| 12:49.08 | raster | they want it all ot be open |
| 12:49.09 | methril|laptop | yes, i know |
| 12:49.13 | raster | already have an sdcc port |
| 12:49.19 | raster | will do a gcc one after sdcc is stable |
| 12:49.27 | methril|laptop | but all the HW companies tries to keep the docs under NDA |
| 12:49.27 | raster | and otherwise all programming docs will be open |
| 12:49.33 | methril|laptop | i hope it's n ot the case |
| 12:49.34 | Wonka | raster: x server completely on that baby might be nice - only the part on the host that needs to do interrupt stuff |
| 12:50.02 | raster | http://www.tomicpu.com/documents/patent_application.pdf |
| 12:50.06 | raster | but it seems to be dead |
| 12:50.07 | Wonka | ssl crypto acceleration |
| 12:50.11 | methril|laptop | uhm!! nice, i like sdcc |
| 12:50.13 | methril|laptop | :D |
| 12:50.27 | raster | methril|laptop: i simply have told u what i knew before i signed the nda |
| 12:50.28 | raster | ie |
| 12:50.32 | raster | the patent has most of that |
| 12:50.39 | raster | i know a lot more thats beyond that now |
| 12:50.53 | raster | i have the compielr ans sources and the emulator etc. here |
| 12:51.06 | raster | i've played with it a bit - thus the ability to comapre with a 2442 |
| 12:51.07 | methril|laptop | well, thank you for the info, it's an interesting hw |
| 12:51.14 | raster | admittedly thats comparing the simulator |
| 12:51.20 | raster | and "assuming" thngs |
| 12:51.44 | methril|laptop | it's the simulator available? |
| 12:51.49 | methril|laptop | or closed sw too? |
| 12:52.03 | Wonka | "simulator" like "spice"? |
| 12:52.09 | Wonka | or more like "qemu"? |
| 12:52.16 | raster | ummm |
| 12:52.25 | raster | a bit of a bastard child of a cunch of thngs |
| 12:52.32 | raster | but now w'ere in nda land :) |
| 12:52.38 | methril|laptop | hehehe |
| 12:52.40 | raster | methril|laptop: its closed for now |
| 12:52.53 | Wonka | i did some things at university with XilinX ISE... |
| 12:52.54 | methril|laptop | i understarnd |
| 12:52.56 | *** join/#openmoko Cervajz (n=Cervajz@r9ha50.net.upc.cz) |
| 12:53.02 | raster | WILL be open on release - iw when the silicon exists and the simulator has bugs ironed out |
| 12:53.10 | Wonka | targeted on Spartan 3 |
| 12:53.17 | raster | anyweay |
| 12:53.20 | raster | its a pretty cool chip |
| 12:53.29 | raster | if this had existed this time last year |
| 12:53.33 | methril|laptop | yes, it's something different |
| 12:53.37 | raster | i'd have said "dump glamo - put this in" |
| 12:53.40 | Wonka | yeah, with .2 W it won't get very warm :) |
| 12:53.46 | raster | as its completely programmable |
| 12:53.51 | raster | u could use it for gfx |
| 12:53.51 | Wonka | raster: as I said, GTA04 :) |
| 12:53.57 | raster | or for vidoe decoding |
| 12:53.58 | raster | audio |
| 12:54.11 | raster | for any compute tasks- especially if they walk through lots of ram |
| 12:54.22 | Wonka | raster: OpenGL stuff! Compositing! |
| 12:54.29 | raster | as the cpres are part of the dram itself they have really low latency access to ram |
| 12:54.32 | raster | like hyper-low |
| 12:54.32 | Wonka | raster: audio filtering, echo cancellation... |
| 12:54.50 | viq | Isn't hardware for gta04 already decided? |
| 12:54.51 | raster | so gfx is an obivous calling as its often high-bandwidht with lots of data flying about |
| 12:54.52 | Wonka | wants it too |
| 12:55.09 | raster | and the cool bit is |
| 12:55.17 | raster | u only need to do some of the acceleration and work |
| 12:55.19 | Wonka | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA04 "no text" |
| 12:55.21 | raster | as the docs are open |
| 12:55.26 | raster | u do the most pressing big things |
| 12:55.35 | raster | then the community can add mroe accel over time as they want/need |
| 12:55.41 | raster | just by writing software for the accel |
| 12:55.42 | raster | :) |
| 12:55.49 | *** join/#openmoko TeLLuS (n=Johan@179.108.227.87.static.f.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 12:55.51 | Wonka | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA04_revisions |
| 12:55.53 | raster | so for an open development model it is perfect |
| 12:55.58 | Wonka | »# Based on a more advanced SoC |
| 12:55.58 | raster | anyway |
| 12:56.01 | Wonka | # maybe based on the samsung 6400 or 6410« |
| 12:56.01 | raster | time to snooze |
| 12:56.05 | Wonka | night |
| 12:56.06 | raster | ciao! |
| 12:56.10 | *** join/#openmoko neolynx (n=u@32-123-204-62-pool.dsl.fcom.ch) |
| 12:56.17 | methril|laptop | ciao |
| 12:56.26 | Wonka | that chip sounds big fun |
| 12:56.28 | methril|laptop | we put presure :D |
| 12:56.30 | viq | Wonka: there was some discussion on mailing lists regarding newer samsung chip vs some OMAP thing, and it was basically "Yeah, sorry, it was already decided we'll go with the samsung chip, maybe next one could have it" |
| 12:56.30 | methril|laptop | looks |
| 12:56.45 | Wonka | viq: ok, then gta05... |
| 12:56.51 | methril|laptop | hehehe |
| 12:57.07 | methril|laptop | but they could use this chip with the samsung |
| 12:57.07 | Wonka | with 64 cores and 1GHz that one should be real fun in "normal" PCs too |
| 12:57.31 | *** join/#openmoko sigius (n=sigius@93-125-185-45.dsl.alice.nl) |
| 12:57.38 | methril|laptop | it like a accel chip with more capabilities :) |
| 12:57.39 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 12:58.11 | *** join/#openmoko mrmoku (n=mok@ppp-62-216-214-144.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 12:58.13 | Wonka | 64MB, 64 cores - makes 1024 cores with 1024MB video ram. don't know if current ATI or NVIDIA could match that... |
| 12:58.29 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@85.182.50.5) |
| 12:58.52 | Wonka | also, crypto-stuff, video decoding, video encoding, ... |
| 12:58.55 | Wonka | big big fun |
| 12:59.28 | lindi- | i thought xilinx fpga always required proprietary stuff to work |
| 12:59.43 | methril|laptop | not now lindi- |
| 12:59.55 | *** join/#openmoko Staticwave_Ace (n=Ace@d57-135-60.home.cgocable.net) |
| 12:59.55 | methril|laptop | you have some "open" tools |
| 13:00.03 | methril|laptop | the ISE is free to download |
| 13:00.06 | lindi- | methril|laptop: DFSG? |
| 13:00.26 | Ke | I think you guys whoever does this gta04 should really work on PR |
| 13:01.10 | Ke | after several hours of researh I still would have no idea in what state openmoko is |
| 13:01.28 | Ke | or target hardware |
| 13:01.31 | lindi- | methril|laptop: i don't really care about free to download if i can't modify it and give it to others |
| 13:01.52 | lindi- | Ke: openmoko inc., the software they make or the hardware? |
| 13:02.21 | methril|laptop | http://www.xilinx.com/ise/logic_design_prod/webpack.htm |
| 13:02.26 | Wonka | Ke: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA04_revisions |
| 13:02.28 | methril|laptop | lindi- take a look on it |
| 13:02.36 | Ke | lindi-: I don't know because the openmoko.com/openmoko.org is in such a horrible state |
| 13:02.42 | Wonka | Ke: wasnt that hard after looking where "GTA03" redirected |
| 13:03.20 | lindi- | methril|laptop: it wants me to create an account |
| 13:03.49 | Ke | Wonka: from where? |
| 13:04.02 | lindi- | methril|laptop: does that software really meet DFSG (http://www.debian.org/social_contract)? |
| 13:04.03 | methril|laptop | well, you could do a dummy one |
| 13:04.10 | methril|laptop | i don't know |
| 13:04.14 | *** join/#openmoko hipitihop (n=denis@203.221.91.97) |
| 13:04.23 | Wonka | Ke: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA03 redirects to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA03_revisions |
| 13:04.26 | lindi- | methril|laptop: since it doesn't surely look like it |
| 13:04.33 | Wonka | Ke: trying http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA04_revisions then was no big step for me |
| 13:04.38 | hipitihop | waves to the inmates |
| 13:05.43 | lindi- | methril|laptop: of course i'd love to be proven wrong in this case |
| 13:06.04 | methril|laptop | give me time to take a look :) |
| 13:06.18 | hipitihop | Can someone point me to instructions on how to correctly install the minimal kernel module set from http://moko.mwester.net/dl.html#kernels |
| 13:06.21 | methril|laptop | i know that you could program the FPGAs "free" |
| 13:06.32 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 13:06.34 | hipitihop | I have qtextended 4.4.2 |
| 13:06.34 | Ke | Wonka: for instance I heard rumours that parts of graphics hardware for freerunner had no docs and no one was actually developing drivers |
| 13:06.40 | lindi- | hipitihop: i don't know what "free" is |
| 13:06.48 | lindi- | methril|laptop: sorry, meant you ^ |
| 13:06.56 | lindi- | methril|laptop: you better define your terms :) |
| 13:06.59 | mjr | Ke, that's pretty correct |
| 13:07.13 | Ke | Wonka: getting information about such things could be a bit easier |
| 13:07.15 | *** join/#openmoko unlotto (n=unlotto@ip114.rev112.brygge.net) |
| 13:09.20 | *** join/#openmoko victor362 (n=victor36@i59F5FA25.versanet.de) |
| 13:14.48 | *** join/#openmoko GISM (n=GISM@p5B09E1B1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:14.53 | *** join/#openmoko Ainulindale (n=ainu@calaquendi.org) |
| 13:20.54 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03morphis * r306 10/trunk/umaf/python-elementary/ (. src/ src/elementary.pxd src/elementary.pyx src/window.pxd): Added python elementary bindings |
| 13:22.48 | _Bill_ | hipitihop: 4.4.2?? |
| 13:23.19 | CIA-49 | freesmartphone.org: 03seeseekey * r307 10/trunk/ (python-elementary/ umaf/python-elementary/): |
| 13:23.39 | ronny | hmm, ew svn |
| 13:23.47 | *** join/#openmoko ipa (n=Administ@219-86-116-174.dynamic.tfn.net.tw) |
| 13:25.08 | *** part/#openmoko ptitjes (n=didier@93.2.7.240) |
| 13:25.14 | hipitihop | _Bill_, yes that's what it reports but listed as 4.4.1 on qtextened download site |
| 13:25.15 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-53-89.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:25.34 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213.152.39.89) |
| 13:26.39 | _Bill_ | hipitihop: on gta02? |
| 13:26.47 | hipitihop | yes |
| 13:27.18 | _Bill_ | cause the gta02 image i see, is the same i have on mine atm.. and this is for sure 4.4.1 |
| 13:27.27 | _Bill_ | from 2008/10/03 |
| 13:28.28 | hipitihop | yes same, but poking around somewhere it says it is 4.4.2 unless I'm w...w....wrong |
| 13:29.02 | *** join/#openmoko johngay (n=john@adsl-10-237-184.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 13:30.07 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-53-89.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:30.07 | Zorkman | hipitihop: you're not wrong |
| 13:30.20 | Zorkman | mine aslo did that |
| 13:30.35 | _Bill_ | hmh.. let me boot mine up |
| 13:30.37 | Zorkman | and i was 100% sure i downloaded 4.4.1; so don't worry about it |
| 13:30.51 | _Bill_ | lorn goofs us all :) |
| 13:31.10 | Shlee | it doesn't matter.. its 4.4.2 BUT |
| 13:31.22 | *** join/#openmoko Ainulindale (n=ainu@calaquendi.org) |
| 13:31.25 | Shlee | that release is real unstable.. so wait afew weeks for the next release |
| 13:32.01 | hipitihop | Zorkman, are you running uImage-gta02-g291a9d50_mwester-stable.bin ? |
| 13:32.05 | _Bill_ | Shlee: i do agree with that |
| 13:32.18 | Zorkman | hipitihop: yes |
| 13:32.30 | _Bill_ | tried that for some days and moved back to my old handy.. |
| 13:32.37 | Zorkman | well, i rAn it, installed FDOM now |
| 13:32.48 | hipitihop | Zorkman, did you also install the minimal modules tgz ? |
| 13:32.49 | _Bill_ | fdom was seriously slow for me.. |
| 13:32.53 | Zorkman | i have the bouncing calypso bug so that image was of not much use for me |
| 13:33.03 | Zorkman | hipitihop: yes |
| 13:33.33 | hipitihop | Shlee, what are the instabilities ? |
| 13:35.51 | *** part/#openmoko Hire1 (n=hire@host131-236-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:37.57 | _Bill_ | indeed.. system info shows qtextended 4.4.2 (c) by Nokia and built by: lpotter@dropbear |
| 13:38.05 | _Bill_ | polarbear |
| 13:38.08 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=root@mauve.plus.com) |
| 13:38.17 | Shlee | lol drop bear |
| 13:38.36 | _Bill_ | there's a new buildhost name for you, lorn :) |
| 13:39.36 | Shlee | Australias love the dropbear myth. |
| 13:39.48 | SpeedEvil | ssh! |
| 13:40.11 | hipitihop | it's not a myth :-) |
| 13:42.04 | hipitihop | Shlee, I've been running 4.4.2 and while it has some annoying things I could hardly say it is unstable. |
| 13:43.54 | hipitihop | Shlee, care to elaborate ? |
| 13:45.17 | Shlee | GUI crashes, bouncing calypso, sms cloning, sms full, battery life is lower than 3.4 |
| 13:46.31 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=almien@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:46.36 | *** join/#openmoko marcels (n=marcel@mstoop.xs4all.nl) |
| 13:47.33 | hipitihop | is there a feed for any updates or must we wait for full release |
| 13:48.10 | Shlee | not receiving calls/SMS and requiring a reboot |
| 13:51.42 | _Bill_ | i just started wondering.. how difficult would be creating a script to port ispell dictionarys for raster keyboard.. |
| 13:56.44 | *** join/#openmoko nomeata (i=nobody@nomeata.de) |
| 14:04.44 | *** join/#openmoko Schugy (n=chris@Q12b0.q.pppool.de) |
| 14:05.31 | *** join/#openmoko kirun (n=kirun@207.88.125.91.rb4.adsl.brightview.com) |
| 14:09.15 | *** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=matic@BSN-95-203-173.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 14:09.16 | Zorkman | anybody else has some problems with epdf viewer in FDOM? |
| 14:09.30 | Zorkman | when opening the program it asks for a password |
| 14:09.33 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-084-057-083-157.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:15.57 | nemik | how do you guys run the qemu emulator? with custom builds? i'm trying with the daily snapshots and have problems |
| 14:16.46 | nemik | everytime i tell uboot to boot to kernel, it starts, checksums returns OK, then instead of booting into the kernel it instantly goes back to u-boot. and it's stuck in this loop. anyone encounter this? |
| 14:17.37 | AJuOnLiNE|sh | nemik: if you get it working tell me too :P |
| 14:17.52 | nemik | hey! |
| 14:18.06 | nemik | same issue? |
| 14:18.44 | AJuOnLiNE|sh | nemik: i tried once. but didnt dig further. i have an unusable build of qtopia running by default. |
| 14:18.54 | nemik | i only got it working once, with the super-old 2007 images that seems completely broken anyway. |
| 14:18.59 | nemik | yea, that was the one |
| 14:20.53 | *** part/#openmoko Quadduc (n=quadduc@216-145-97.211110.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 14:21.54 | *** join/#openmoko AlexBkk (n=alex@ppp-124-120-81-3.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 14:23.48 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=almien@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 14:24.10 | AlexBkk | Hello there. Does anyone have updated info about multiplexing? |
| 14:24.15 | *** join/#openmoko valos[fr]1 (n=root@mar92-6-82-227-150-198.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:24.22 | *** join/#openmoko christooss2 (n=matic@BSN-95-203-173.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 14:24.27 | *** part/#openmoko valos[fr]1 (n=root@mar92-6-82-227-150-198.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:25.48 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-084-057-083-157.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:30.36 | *** join/#openmoko sdonk (n=alex@host175-102-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:31.30 | *** join/#openmoko Isajha (n=Isajha4@wrzb-d933d407.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 14:32.18 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009034164.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 14:33.00 | AlexBkk | I would like to have gprs working, but the wiki is outdated |
| 14:33.10 | AlexBkk | any help? |
| 14:34.52 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-203-173.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 14:37.56 | *** join/#openmoko datachaos (n=datachao@189.27.191.132.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 14:40.30 | AlexBkk | Does anyone else have problems using gprs? |
| 14:40.34 | *** join/#openmoko Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) |
| 14:40.54 | Zorkman | never tried it |
| 14:41.54 | valos[fr] | works for me under FSO using sephora |
| 14:42.37 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@host86-151-121-212.range86-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:43.57 | AlexBkk | thanks, I was trying to use in OM 2008.9 |
| 14:44.12 | *** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl) |
| 14:47.33 | *** join/#openmoko Hydrant (n=aj@CPE0011950c737b-CM0012c90d1420.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 14:48.30 | Hydrant | Hey all... my neo has been on a shelf for a couple of months (been busy)... I plugged it into a charger overnight, and it won't turn on... I tried taking out the battery and it won't power on without it... so I tried a different USB cable other than the official openmoko charger, and same thing... ideas ? |
| 14:49.58 | Zorkman | hydrant: have you tried to boot into NOR? |
| 14:50.05 | Zorkman | hold aux and then power |
| 14:50.08 | _Bill_ | probably the battery is drained |
| 14:50.11 | Zorkman | while battery in and plugged in |
| 14:51.05 | Zorkman | otherwise insert battery, hook FR on pc with the USB cable (directly, not through a hub) and wait some time.. some people reported it worked again if they followed this procedure |
| 14:51.17 | _Bill_ | either charge your battery with some compatible nokia or just put the compatible nokias battery in for boot time, then connect the charger and change the batter to your dead one.. should start charging :) |
| 14:51.29 | _Bill_ | Zorkman: wasn't charging handled in kernel? |
| 14:51.38 | _Bill_ | i seem to recall something along the lines |
| 14:51.58 | Zorkman | _Bill_: yes but it seemed it would trickle charge a bit when just connected through usb |
| 14:52.14 | Hydrant | okay... let me try that... aux and power |
| 14:52.26 | _Bill_ | hmh.. Zorkman you might be right... |
| 14:52.28 | Zorkman | once i couldn't get my FR to boot because of a drained battery and nothing worked for me, except booting into NOR, that worked without problem strangely enough |
| 14:52.53 | Zorkman | once in NOR i could boot the FR and the battery would start charging |
| 14:53.05 | _Bill_ | weird.. |
| 14:53.28 | *** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=matic@89.143.138.91) |
| 14:53.52 | Hydrant | nothing for me yet... let me get my charger and try that... I also have spare batteries somewhere (I got them with my thing) |
| 14:55.28 | Pander | Does anyone know what the size is of an application icon? 80x80, 120x120 or 128x128 |
| 14:58.03 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 14:58.04 | Hydrant | nothing... I tried taking out the SD card and sim card, still not working :-( |
| 14:58.13 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-084-057-083-157.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:58.20 | Zorkman | :( |
| 14:58.32 | Zorkman | try to leave it plugged in like i said for while |
| 15:00.24 | *** join/#openmoko Ainulindale (n=ainu@calaquendi.org) |
| 15:00.45 | Zorkman | is pidgin no longer in the feeds? |
| 15:00.52 | *** join/#openmoko mgregson (n=mgregson@76-10-136-179.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 15:00.54 | AlexBkk | 80x80 pixels is fine, but a larger icon will be scaled anyway |
| 15:00.55 | Zorkman | de we need to download it from rabenfrost? |
| 15:01.16 | *** join/#openmoko q0b (n=q0b@xdsl-87-78-67-218.netcologne.de) |
| 15:01.28 | *** join/#openmoko bove2 (n=opera@cm-84.208.114.37.getinternet.no) |
| 15:01.47 | Hydrant | just plugged into the PC via USB ? |
| 15:02.37 | *** join/#openmoko mgregson1 (n=mgregson@76-10-162-61.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 15:05.22 | slaxxin | surley 1 of those batterys has some power |
| 15:05.24 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-39-174.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:06.32 | *** join/#openmoko Ainulindale (n=ainu@calaquendi.org) |
| 15:06.38 | *** join/#openmoko chomwitt (n=chomwitt@ppp-94-69-22-136.home.otenet.gr) |
| 15:09.25 | *** join/#openmoko RedFlash (n=RedFlash@host161-56-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:12.01 | bove2 | Just downloaded the latest fso yesterday, but there are no icons for bluetooth, gsm, gps, wifi... like it says in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO_UI_Tutorial |
| 15:14.13 | bove2 | so how can I for instance turn on bluettoth? |
| 15:14.54 | mwester | Hydrant: plug it into anything at all; in its current state it doesn't matter how much power the host end has to supply, just that it can supply any at all. :( |
| 15:15.35 | Zorkman | mwester: do you know if the FR will ever be able to charge like a "normal phone" when the battery is empty? |
| 15:17.02 | mwester | Zorkman: I guess that's a matter of opinion; some seem to be of the belief that it is "close enough", as the GTA03 uses the very same broken power management chip that permits the device to get into this broken state. |
| 15:17.21 | Hydrant | hrrm |
| 15:17.27 | Hydrant | kinda sucks |
| 15:17.35 | Hydrant | maybe I can charge the battery in a compatible phone first ? |
| 15:18.15 | SpeedEvil | A perfectly workable solution in theory is to turn the phone off completely at bat = 10% |
| 15:18.34 | mwester | In my opinion, no, the fundamental flaw is in the hardware, and while recent u-boots have made it so that it is very unlikely that you'll get the PMU chip into this state, it is still possible. For example, if the little backup battery goes flat, and the real battery goes flat, then the phone is in a state where it will not charge at all . |
| 15:19.13 | leinir | Fundamental design flaws ftw... ;) |
| 15:19.26 | *** join/#openmoko mgregson (n=mgregson@76-10-132-238.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 15:19.27 | Zorkman | bah |
| 15:19.50 | mwester | SpeedEvil: that presumes that the two batteries do not self-discharge completely; evidence already indicates that it is very possible for both to discharge to a level that causes the PMU to reset. |
| 15:20.08 | mwester | Such a case is just to leave the unit in a desk drawer for a few months. |
| 15:20.22 | SpeedEvil | I'm not saying it's good. |
| 15:20.27 | mwester | Hydrant: Yes, charge the battery in something that can charge a Nokia battery. |
| 15:20.39 | SpeedEvil | mwester: only in cheap chargetrs |
| 15:21.03 | mwester | Expensive chargers sense a non-nokia battery? |
| 15:21.40 | mwester | kicks electronics manufacturers for each inventing their own proprietary batteries. |
| 15:22.13 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|relaXing (n=mickey@e180172015.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:22.14 | Zorkman | adds his boot |
| 15:22.41 | mwester | mickey! get to work!!! :p |
| 15:22.50 | mickey|relaXing | :D |
| 15:23.02 | mickey|relaXing | me needs a couple of months break... |
| 15:23.19 | mwester | You need to stay home for a few weeks, I would think. |
| 15:24.27 | Hydrant | hooray! |
| 15:24.33 | Hydrant | fresh battery worked just fine |
| 15:24.43 | *** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.167.88.216) |
| 15:24.47 | Hydrant | okay... that's a really annoying issue.. I presume there is a bug report on this already ? |
| 15:25.00 | *** join/#openmoko zogg_ (n=zogg@78-62-16-160.static.zebra.lt) |
| 15:27.39 | Zorkman | Hydrant: I don't know about a bug report but it is avery well known issue |
| 15:27.44 | Zorkman | there is a wiki page about it also |
| 15:28.21 | Hydrant | okay, so long as it's known... I thought I forgot how to turn the thing on for a minute :-( |
| 15:28.50 | *** join/#openmoko Bish (n=arne@p4FC4D4BC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:29.40 | Hydrant | thanks all... I have to take off |
| 15:30.06 | Zorkman | I'm using x11vnc on the FR and it works nicely, the only problem is speed... |
| 15:30.22 | Zorkman | is there a way to speed it up? |
| 15:31.42 | *** join/#openmoko two3four (n=erik@c83-251-40-108.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 15:34.36 | *** join/#openmoko RedFlash (n=RedFlash@host67-106-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:34.45 | SpeedEvil | displaying on FR, or desktop |
| 15:34.52 | *** join/#openmoko q0b_ (n=q0b@xdsl-87-79-135-38.netcologne.de) |
| 15:34.53 | Zorkman | on desktop |
| 15:35.11 | Zorkman | (i'm btw very pleased by the way everything works) |
| 15:36.27 | Zorkman | I run it on my FR with the command xterm -e x11vnc -display :0.0 -ncache 10 |
| 15:40.23 | *** part/#openmoko q0b_ (n=q0b@xdsl-87-79-135-38.netcologne.de) |
| 15:42.06 | *** join/#openmoko idvco (i=50791e66@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-07c1ee05a9c52a90) |
| 15:49.15 | *** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host23-162-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:50.31 | DocScrutinizer | mwester: nope, when bupbat and mainbat go flat, phone still charges if it can boot from usb (without bat). That's the case with all A6 versions, which have the bigger cap on Vsys |
| 15:52.32 | Zorkman | DocScrutinizer: and for those with an A5? |
| 15:54.10 | DocScrutinizer | depends. If it can boot without mainbat, it also will charge a drained bat. If it doesn't boot, it depemds on state of charger when last powerdown happened, and whether bupbat is still alive. If bupbat really is down too, you're deadlocked though |
| 15:55.04 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-084-057-083-157.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:56.19 | DocScrutinizer | some A5 boot one time out of 5 or 10, without bat. Some boot without problem. Some never will |
| 15:56.46 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178062082.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:57.56 | Zorkman | hmm, thanks, i always try to be very carefull, but sometimes the FR goes crazy and discharges when you blink :) |
| 16:02.36 | *** join/#openmoko Flyser_ (n=flyser@dialin-145-254-172-114.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:05.25 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176096212.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:09.08 | *** join/#openmoko wipf (n=wipf@vpn171b.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de) |
| 16:10.13 | *** join/#openmoko Ainulindale (n=ainu@calaquendi.org) |
| 16:10.23 | DocScrutinizer | sometimes samsung SGH-i900 OMNIA windoof freezes and bat discharges while device gets hot, even when hooked up on charger. You see this isn't an issue solely known to OM phones. Actually our phone can charge without system being up at all. |
| 16:11.36 | DocScrutinizer | we just need the system (or uBoot) to configure the PMU to do the actual charging task |
| 16:12.29 | *** join/#openmoko aggtrfrad (n=nona@CPE0014bf3f862a-CM0018c0d9db72.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 16:12.43 | Zorkman | are there plans to fix this in the future? |
| 16:12.49 | DocScrutinizer | so A6 is even better than OMNIA |
| 16:12.59 | DocScrutinizer | fix what? |
| 16:13.37 | DocScrutinizer | all A8 boot with dead bat, so all A6 will charge |
| 16:13.42 | Zorkman | the problems for A5 with booting/charging the empty batteries |
| 16:13.52 | DocScrutinizer | s/A8/A6/ |
| 16:14.35 | *** join/#openmoko Hire1 (n=hire@host131-236-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:14.51 | *** join/#openmoko quickdev (n=quickdev@p5B057C97.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:15.15 | DocScrutinizer | you could replace the 47uF inside (piggybacked) by a 100uF |
| 16:15.25 | DocScrutinizer | inside big can |
| 16:17.51 | tomboy64 | is there something special bout making 2008.9 display icons for apps? |
| 16:18.10 | tomboy64 | i added an "Icon=myownicon" to the desktop file |
| 16:18.16 | tomboy64 | how do i get this displayed? |
| 16:18.39 | tomboy64 | oh, and myownicon.png is listed in /usr/share/pixmaps |
| 16:19.41 | Zorkman | tomboy64: is the rest of your *.desktop file correct? |
| 16:19.49 | Zorkman | especially the categories stuff |
| 16:20.16 | Zorkman | if it can't find/read the icon you just get a blank icon, if there is something wrong in your *.desktop file it doesn't display at all |
| 16:20.28 | tomboy64 | it does display |
| 16:21.27 | tomboy64 | well |
| 16:21.29 | tomboy64 | the app |
| 16:21.33 | tomboy64 | but it has a black icon |
| 16:21.45 | tomboy64 | i took my xterm icon ... |
| 16:21.49 | tomboy64 | Icon=xterm |
| 16:21.54 | tomboy64 | it works for xterm.desktop |
| 16:27.29 | AlexBkk | Does anyone know how to install a dictionary in OM? |
| 16:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko methril|laptop (n=methril@38.72.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 16:27.35 | AlexBkk | For example stardict |
| 16:28.47 | Zorkman | not me |
| 16:30.35 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 16:30.41 | AlexBkk | I'm very happy in general with my phone, but there are so many things that I would like to do and don't know yet how |
| 16:33.40 | Zorkman | do you use it as a phone? (your daily phone) |
| 16:33.58 | AlexBkk | yes, I try to |
| 16:34.09 | Zorkman | what distro are you running? |
| 16:34.10 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 16:34.18 | AlexBkk | OM 2008.9 |
| 16:34.33 | AlexBkk | how about you? |
| 16:34.51 | Zorkman | meh, reflashing every day or so :) |
| 16:35.06 | *** join/#openmoko esthar (n=esthar@student165-170.hampshire.edu) |
| 16:35.11 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@89.143.138.91) |
| 16:35.22 | Zorkman | qtopia is best as a daily phone for me, but due to gsm constantly re-registering not yet there yet, next update will have the sleep=2 AT command i guess and i'll see if that is better |
| 16:35.37 | Zorkman | currently playing with FDOM |
| 16:35.54 | AlexBkk | have you tried debian yet? |
| 16:36.05 | Zorkman | nope, that's the only one i haven't tried yet |
| 16:36.23 | Zorkman | don't know why, but it doesn't appeal to me |
| 16:36.27 | AlexBkk | I haven't tried anything besides 2008.9, I want to get used to it first |
| 16:36.39 | _Bill_ | debian has some issues.. |
| 16:37.00 | Zorkman | _Bill_: it's the FR, EVEYTHING has "some issues" :) |
| 16:37.10 | AlexBkk | yes, I used debian in my notebook some time ago, never managed to configure everything |
| 16:37.48 | AlexBkk | maybe there should be some "mokubuntu" |
| 16:38.28 | _Bill_ | they may be historical and stuff but i still get nightmares.. "I have to install 100 servers and i only have potato CD and dselect" |
| 16:39.35 | lindi- | _Bill_: what kind of issues? |
| 16:40.10 | _Bill_ | lindi-: for me they are historical and painful... read my last comment about nightmares |
| 16:40.16 | *** join/#openmoko XgismX (n=GISM@p5B09CF92.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:40.43 | AlexBkk | _Bill_: so you are talking about times before the apt-get? |
| 16:41.07 | _Bill_ | well.. apt-get was introduced in woody i think.. |
| 16:41.27 | _Bill_ | but you still had to do your installation package-management with dselect :( |
| 16:41.39 | AlexBkk | sorry I never used debian before sarge |
| 16:41.49 | _Bill_ | and from these days on.. the world has never been the same |
| 16:42.01 | *** join/#openmoko TAsnn (n=tasn@89.1.25.21.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 16:42.07 | _Bill_ | but generally.. indeed.. debian is just another distro |
| 16:42.22 | Zorkman | what mediaplayer is best in 2008.9? i find pythm is very slow |
| 16:42.24 | _Bill_ | they are weird in some sense.. especially their puritan legal department... |
| 16:42.33 | lindi- | _Bill_: nope, i used apt-get in potato |
| 16:42.42 | _Bill_ | lindi-: not during install |
| 16:43.02 | _Bill_ | and i think it wasn't in the main distro.. altho i may be wring |
| 16:43.04 | _Bill_ | wrong |
| 16:43.10 | TeLLuS | How do I access when ssh, terminal and installer do not want to start? Only get portmap on port 111. Reflash the last and only option? On om2008.9 after installing the gsmmuxer and libs from ångström dist, trying to get gprs going. Booting on SD probably a bit hard without cardreader. Any more options? single-user mode? |
| 16:43.32 | lindi- | _Bill_: it was added in slink |
| 16:43.54 | *** join/#openmoko Nets (n=asaned@pcsp201-20.dynamic.supercable.net.ve) |
| 16:44.12 | lindi- | _Bill_: i have a slink machine here. '$ apt-get --version' => 'apt 0.3.11 for i386 compiled on Aug 8 1999 10:12:36' |
| 16:44.17 | _Bill_ | true.. just dug up as much.. but i don't recall when they changed the installer not to use dselect |
| 16:44.33 | AlexBkk | TeLLuS: I just broke my system yesterday that same way, trying to make gprs work with packages from angstrom |
| 16:44.38 | *** join/#openmoko evolux (n=evolux@g229223175.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:44.47 | AlexBkk | I didn't know how to fix it |
| 16:44.57 | *** join/#openmoko evolux_ (n=evolux@g229223175.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:45.04 | Nets | OpenMoko in a palmOne Lifedrive!!! |
| 16:45.10 | mickey|bloodpres | yay! |
| 16:45.12 | mickey|bloodpres | congrats |
| 16:45.13 | *** join/#openmoko ssweeny (n=scott@pool-72-95-253-254.pitbpa.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:45.42 | lindi- | _Bill_: with 100 servers you really want to just do one installation rsync it to the other 199 |
| 16:45.56 | tomboy64 | :-D |
| 16:46.04 | _Bill_ | dselect Documentation for Beginners |
| 16:46.06 | _Bill_ | Abstract This document contains is a short tutorial for first-time users of dselect, console Debian package handling frontend. It supplements the Installation Manual for Debian GNU/Linux 3.0. |
| 16:46.08 | tomboy64 | 100 servers and 199 rsyncs? |
| 16:46.12 | tomboy64 | :-D |
| 16:46.31 | _Bill_ | so in woody it still was default package manager |
| 16:47.00 | lindi- | depends on what default means, i didn't need to touch dselect at all |
| 16:47.22 | _Bill_ | well.. i take it that i was a debian-noob.. |
| 16:47.46 | AlexBkk | TeLLuS: what I finally did is use dfu-util to save a copy of my filesystem in my pc, then reflash a new OM2008.9 and use the saved copy to reconstruct a few configuration files. A lot of work anyway, hopefully there's some better way |
| 16:47.52 | _Bill_ | anyway i've avoided debian since i was first molested my dselect |
| 16:47.54 | _Bill_ | by |
| 16:48.00 | lindi- | _Bill_: but my boss used dselect for a long time since he started had used it before apt existed |
| 16:48.55 | _Bill_ | lindi-: maybe i'm just not dselect guy.. just like i'm not a emacs guy :) |
| 16:49.28 | TeLLuS | AlexBkk: Probably have to recompile the muxer for already installed libs.. ok, preparing for a reflash. I have only flashed it once before when I got it. I guess its time again. Thanks.. |
| 16:50.05 | lindi- | _Bill_: heh |
| 16:50.15 | lindi- | _Bill_: sure there are issues with debian but given my priorities it seems to fit best |
| 16:50.25 | TeLLuS | use dselect almost every day.. Since pre hamm days.. I guess. |
| 16:50.26 | AlexBkk | I wonder if you can fix your file system after copying to your PC, then reflash it back? |
| 16:50.35 | _Bill_ | well.. i've tried almost every major core distro in the world... i think.. |
| 16:51.17 | _Bill_ | from redhat 5.0 through debian, slackware, caldera, mandake, suse.. various source-based distros... |
| 16:51.31 | _Bill_ | and suse seems to fit my need these days... |
| 16:51.32 | TeLLuS | AlexBkk: Probably, but I think its faster to install again.. |
| 16:51.48 | AlexBkk | That's what I did, yes |
| 16:52.20 | AlexBkk | but still don't have any idea of how to configure the gprs, that's why I came here |
| 16:52.50 | *** part/#openmoko Nets (n=asaned@pcsp201-20.dynamic.supercable.net.ve) |
| 16:52.56 | lindi- | _Bill_: didn't suse use to do some proprietary software? |
| 16:53.00 | tomboy64 | _Bill_: i'm quite content with gentoo |
| 16:53.03 | lindi- | _Bill_: or do i remember wrong? |
| 16:53.14 | AlexBkk | TeLLuS: you say the muxer should be recompiled? |
| 16:53.28 | lindi- | tomboy64: i found it difficult to avoid proprietary software in gentoo |
| 16:53.40 | _Bill_ | suse, nope.. SuSE was the first german linux distro.. basicly slackware with rpm |
| 16:53.54 | _Bill_ | novell, who owns suse now, had its netware |
| 16:53.58 | Zorkman | AlexBkk: you followed the wiki? |
| 16:54.06 | Zorkman | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPRS |
| 16:54.21 | _Bill_ | tomboy64: gentoo is just another debian :) |
| 16:54.37 | AlexBkk | Zorkman: I tried, but the wiki referst to a script that is not available anymore |
| 16:55.03 | AlexBkk | I couldn't find what exactly the script did |
| 16:55.11 | lindi- | _Bill_: wasn't YaST proprietary? |
| 16:55.29 | *** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl) |
| 16:55.32 | tomboy64 | _Bill_: uh, i hate debian :-P |
| 16:55.41 | AlexBkk | and anyway, when I tried to install the muxer (and dependencies) from angstrom, my system didn't like it |
| 16:55.58 | _Bill_ | yast, nope |
| 16:56.11 | lindi- | _Bill_: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/1998-03/msg00002.html says there was no source code available |
| 16:56.13 | tomboy64 | AlexBkk: lots of stuff from the angstrom repos is incompatible with the 2008 distro |
| 16:56.14 | lindi- | _Bill_: for yast |
| 16:56.23 | _Bill_ | ow.. that was before my suse time :) |
| 16:56.42 | _Bill_ | at that time i was still a happy redhatter |
| 16:57.16 | _Bill_ | YaST is free software that Novell has made available under the GPL. |
| 16:57.25 | AlexBkk | tomboy64: yes, I learnt it the hard way. I'm trying not to use angstrom if some packages would be upgraded |
| 16:57.29 | *** join/#openmoko Octy92 (n=octy@77.242.188.73) |
| 16:57.31 | lindi- | _Bill_: perhaps now |
| 16:57.36 | lindi- | _Bill_: but in 1998 it wasn't? |
| 16:57.45 | _Bill_ | i wouldn't know.. really.. |
| 16:57.46 | tomboy64 | AlexBkk: remove it from your repos. |
| 16:58.01 | _Bill_ | i'm trying to find some timeline... |
| 16:58.02 | AlexBkk | thanks, I did that already |
| 16:58.02 | TeLLuS | AlexBkk: I guess so since I was made with other libraries.. I found the script file but it was nothing really special.. Maybe the gui to controll it, that I did not use. Also had to customize the gpe startup and not only replace it.. |
| 16:58.03 | tomboy64 | AlexBkk: download the stuff seperately from their site |
| 16:58.26 | _Bill_ | yup.. wasnt |
| 16:58.29 | _Bill_ | http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/History |
| 16:58.38 | _Bill_ | GPL'ed in 2004 |
| 16:58.40 | tomboy64 | did you guys manage to do it with 2008's muxer? |
| 16:58.53 | tomboy64 | or did you use gsm0710muxd as detailed in the wiki? |
| 16:59.04 | lindi- | _Bill_: so it seems |
| 16:59.06 | AlexBkk | I didn't try because the wiki says it won't work |
| 16:59.31 | *** join/#openmoko evolux___ (n=evolux@g229223175.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:59.31 | *** join/#openmoko Shrimpy_ (n=tony@24-241-53-115.static.gwnt.ga.charter.com) |
| 16:59.43 | TeLLuS | Maybe we should try now.. |
| 16:59.52 | bove2 | how do you add shortcuts to the home screen on 2008.9? |
| 17:00.45 | tomboy64 | AlexBkk: huh? |
| 17:00.50 | AlexBkk | bove2: I learned that from section 4 of http://www.unixarea.de/openmoko.txt |
| 17:01.01 | Zorkman | bove2: add an *.deskot file in /usr/share/applications/ |
| 17:01.21 | Zorkman | i mean a *.desktop |
| 17:01.32 | Zorkman | just edit an existing one and save it under a different name |
| 17:01.46 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182048031.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:01.53 | AlexBkk | tomboy64: sorry, maybe I didn't understand your question |
| 17:02.19 | *** join/#openmoko anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5B07F64C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:02.38 | tomboy64 | AlexBkk: do you have gprs running? if yes, with the gui? if so, which tutorial did you use? |
| 17:02.48 | *** join/#openmoko parodyoflanguage (n=klh@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net) |
| 17:03.08 | AlexBkk | tomboy64: no, sorry, I still have no idea of how to get it running |
| 17:04.13 | AlexBkk | tomboy64: I tried to follow the first tutorial, but the packages from angstrom broke my system and I had to reflash |
| 17:04.20 | bove2 | Zorkman: thanks |
| 17:04.26 | parodyoflanguage | Any news on the next gen openmoko phone? |
| 17:04.41 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 17:05.35 | AlexBkk | tomboy64: can you use gprs? |
| 17:05.52 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-084-057-083-157.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:06.05 | tomboy64 | uhm |
| 17:06.06 | Schugy | next gen? it would be next gen with a new soc |
| 17:06.16 | tomboy64 | i tried the one on the wiki halfways |
| 17:06.29 | tomboy64 | but the gsm0710muxd misses the init-script |
| 17:06.36 | tomboy64 | and i was too lazy to get an old one |
| 17:06.41 | *** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@c80-216-18-41.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 17:07.09 | parodyoflanguage | Schugy: new soc? |
| 17:07.44 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-092-154.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 17:07.44 | Schugy | system on a chip |
| 17:07.52 | Schugy | it's Samsung at the moment |
| 17:07.57 | PBeck | hallo |
| 17:08.04 | parodyoflanguage | oh |
| 17:08.15 | parodyoflanguage | Schugy: Thanks for answering my stupid question :) |
| 17:08.20 | *** join/#openmoko ||Leto|| (n=tomboy64@78.52.53.105) |
| 17:08.20 | Schugy | adding a camera isn't really next gen |
| 17:09.11 | mickey|bbl | who did http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/4b297af16a14903d8d73ab9cd5944b11.png ? |
| 17:09.14 | mickey|bbl | anyone here? |
| 17:09.30 | mickey|bbl | s/anyone/the one/ |
| 17:09.41 | parodyoflanguage | Schugy: Well, I probably should have asked about the phone in development after neo freerunner. |
| 17:10.10 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-39-174.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:11.01 | Schugy | I knew what you wanted to know :-) |
| 17:11.05 | Schugy | gta 03 |
| 17:11.38 | TeLLuS | tomboy64: Misses init.d? Did you only use the included gsmmuxer-version? Maybe we could try with init file from ångström.. |
| 17:12.19 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@host40-166-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:13.45 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.196.144.188) |
| 17:14.14 | parodyoflanguage | So is the neo freerunner going to eventually become an actual mass market product? |
| 17:15.11 | *** join/#openmoko BluesLee (n=malik197@e182048031.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:15.28 | AlexBkk | TeLLuS: where did you find the script mentioned in the wiki? |
| 17:15.55 | TeLLuS | AlexBkk: Google on Internet.. :) |
| 17:16.02 | AlexBkk | ohhh |
| 17:16.27 | *** join/#openmoko FredFokan (n=fred@39-15.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 17:17.34 | bove2 | parodyoflanguage: At least not the gta02. I think some of the idea is to make a basis for other devices. Look for instance at the neopwn |
| 17:18.31 | parodyoflanguage | bove2: Thanks for answering. |
| 17:18.51 | parodyoflanguage | See...I'm really thinking of buying one but I'm not sure if I should wait or not. |
| 17:19.03 | Zorkman | does anybody have a version of mokopedia/kiwix running? |
| 17:20.15 | *** join/#openmoko evolux (n=evolux@g229223175.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:20.51 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|bbl (i=mickey@80.81.242.146) |
| 17:21.12 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g227016032.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:21.48 | *** join/#openmoko apol_ (n=apol@62.57.49.116) |
| 17:21.53 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-39-174.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:27.56 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@nmd.sbx13938.conifco.wayport.net) |
| 17:30.44 | *** join/#openmoko evolux__ (n=evolux@g229223175.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:30.54 | *** join/#openmoko noaXess (n=noaXess@gw.ptr-80-238-209-47.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 17:35.04 | *** join/#openmoko evolux_ (n=evolux@g229223175.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:35.08 | *** join/#openmoko evolux___ (n=evolux@g229223175.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:39.41 | *** join/#openmoko drjnut (i=proxy@caladan.darksnow.org) |
| 17:40.28 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@77.84-49-129.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:47.46 | *** join/#openmoko XXgismXX (n=GISM@p5B09D7A6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:50.29 | *** part/#openmoko AlexBkk (n=alex@ppp-124-120-81-3.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 17:50.46 | *** join/#openmoko anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5B07F64C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:52.04 | *** join/#openmoko bricode_ (n=bricode@200.122.185.24) |
| 17:52.34 | *** join/#openmoko valos[fr] (n=valos@mar92-6-82-227-150-198.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:53.05 | *** join/#openmoko CIA-50 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 17:54.55 | Zorkman | does anybody in here know how we can make our own splash screens? |
| 17:56.59 | lindi- | Zorkman: do you know how the current ones are done? |
| 17:57.39 | Zorkman | nope, that's why I'm asking |
| 17:57.54 | lindi- | Zorkman: what exactly is a splash screen? |
| 17:58.33 | Zorkman | when you boot the FR, you get a splash screen, an image that is shown for a short period |
| 17:58.34 | pelifante | Zorkman: i guess you draw a png or something in gimp, you upload it to the neo and store it somewhere in /usr/share/something |
| 17:58.44 | Zorkman | you can reflash it with dfu-util |
| 17:58.53 | lindi- | Zorkman: is it uboot that shows it? |
| 17:59.06 | pelifante | Zorkman: ah, the u-boot splashscreen |
| 17:59.07 | *** join/#openmoko kennyz (n=kennyz@uralnet.org) |
| 17:59.15 | Kensan | there's a wiki page |
| 17:59.24 | Kensan | it you are talking about the splashscreen from u-boot |
| 17:59.28 | Zorkman | not sure, it is omething that you see while uboot is doing "its thing" |
| 17:59.42 | pelifante | Zorkman: again, you draw it, you display it on the neo, you dump the framebuffer into a file, you gzip it, you flash it and voila :) |
| 17:59.48 | *** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net) |
| 17:59.57 | Kensan | Zorkman: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Splash_screen |
| 18:00.07 | *** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@i59F72CEF.versanet.de) |
| 18:00.20 | pelifante | cat /dev/fb0 > file then gzip file, the dfu-util -a splash -D file.gz or something |
| 18:00.22 | Zorkman | Kensan: thanks i just found it |
| 18:00.31 | *** join/#openmoko Staticwave_Ace (n=Ace@d57-135-60.home.cgocable.net) |
| 18:01.44 | Kensan | Zorkman: if the image is too big you may need to adjust uboot env splashimg size |
| 18:02.13 | Zorkman | Kensan: one question though, it says that i hve to use setenv if the size is not exaxlty 0x5000 |
| 18:02.54 | Zorkman | ah, nevermind |
| 18:02.55 | Zorkman | thanks |
| 18:07.26 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@h189n4c1o1036.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 18:11.14 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-75-74.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 18:11.33 | *** join/#openmoko kuzgun (n=deniz@unaffiliated/kuzgun) |
| 18:11.34 | *** join/#openmoko Saupy (n=chris@Q5609.q.pppool.de) |
| 18:15.48 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@e181074109.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:19.10 | *** join/#openmoko lloyd_fedora (n=darkstar@86.99.34.14) |
| 18:20.40 | *** join/#openmoko BenO (n=ben@82-69-120-120.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 18:22.17 | *** part/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@nmd.sbx13938.conifco.wayport.net) |
| 18:22.32 | *** join/#openmoko samgee (n=samgee@187.88-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 18:23.30 | *** join/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74) |
| 18:23.40 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@host86-151-121-212.range86-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:26.52 | *** join/#openmoko Zork|AwaY (i=Zorkman@dD57719B4.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:35.00 | *** join/#openmoko poetic (n=isak@nsabfw1.nsab.se) |
| 18:36.48 | *** join/#openmoko arzej (n=arzej@dgy199.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 18:38.06 | *** join/#openmoko Quadduc (n=quadduc@90.149.196.137) |
| 18:39.57 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@78.52.53.105) |
| 18:47.25 | JaMa | Is there some restriction on ext2 fs size for u-boot? |
| 18:48.04 | *** join/#openmoko Shrimpy_ (n=tony@24-241-53-115.static.gwnt.ga.charter.com) |
| 18:48.06 | JaMa | I cannot read partition bigger than 512MB.. ext2ls in u-boot prompt always return empty |
| 18:48.32 | JaMa | 2 partitions on the same SD card work ok |
| 18:49.11 | *** part/#openmoko BluesLee (n=malik197@e182048031.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:57.26 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.94.44) |
| 18:59.43 | *** join/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@host-125-92.lalacap.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 19:00.26 | Shrimpy_ | what is the command to connect to an open network? |
| 19:00.51 | lindi- | iwconfig eth0 essid $essid |
| 19:00.54 | lindi- | ifconfig eth0 up |
| 19:00.57 | lindi- | dhclient -d eth0 |
| 19:01.20 | Shrimpy_ | lindi-: thanks |
| 19:03.43 | Shrimpy_ | lindi-: after the last command it keeps reaping discover and request |
| 19:04.07 | Shrimpy_ | repeating |
| 19:04.30 | CIA-50 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r9961c94c9cb7 10/fsod/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): |
| 19:04.30 | CIA-50 | freesmartphone.org: 1.) Fixed an issue where the subsystem instances gets destroyed prematurely |
| 19:04.30 | CIA-50 | freesmartphone.org: 2.) Finalize Python interpreter in the PythonManager destructor |
| 19:04.30 | CIA-50 | freesmartphone.org: 3.) Fix ListObjectsByInterface logic in Device subsystem |
| 19:04.32 | CIA-50 | freesmartphone.org: 4.) Factory functions for subsystems return Subsystem.Manager instance instead of bool, after which it is correctly |
| 19:04.35 | CIA-50 | freesmartphone.org: inserted into the fso_objects hash_table |
| 19:09.42 | *** join/#openmoko drath (n=vmaster@p5B07F46B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:10.59 | Shrimpy_ | if you have to sign in on your wireless like it re routes you to a url to log it. would you be able to connect to the network and update? |
| 19:13.13 | *** join/#openmoko chomwitt (n=chomwitt@ppp-94-69-22-136.home.otenet.gr) |
| 19:23.56 | CIA-50 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r956584140ca9 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/powercontrol_neo.py: odeviced: improve WARNING wording |
| 19:24.07 | *** join/#openmoko neolynx (n=u@32-123-204-62-pool.dsl.fcom.ch) |
| 19:26.39 | *** join/#openmoko mrmoku_ (n=mok@93.104.101.104) |
| 19:29.08 | *** join/#openmoko blan (n=blan@HSI-KBW-082-212-048-118.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 19:29.56 | lloyd_fedora | i keep getting this error during the install when trying to install debian using the install script " P: Configuring helper/ cdebootstrap-helper-apt |
| 19:29.56 | lloyd_fedora | E: Internal error: install " .. then it stops and exits to the prompt .. any one know whats goin on .. ?? thanks |
| 19:35.14 | tomer | anyone runs citymap on the GTA02? |
| 19:38.36 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:40.54 | *** join/#openmoko evolux__2 (n=evolux@g228077096.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:41.21 | *** join/#openmoko evolux__3 (n=evolux@g228077096.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:42.10 | orospakr | Hm, I assume that Qtopia is still the best option for making a Neo1973 usable as an actual phone? |
| 19:43.07 | mickey|bbl | hmm |
| 19:43.23 | mickey|bbl | depends |
| 19:43.28 | leinir | It depends entirely on who you ask :) |
| 19:43.32 | cjb_ie | i'm not sure if android works on it yet |
| 19:43.49 | leinir | But it's what i use (that is, Qt Extended) |
| 19:44.30 | orospakr | Heh, Android would be *awesome*. |
| 19:44.33 | *** join/#openmoko lindi- (n=lindi@81.17.193.150) |
| 19:44.48 | orospakr | Android doesn't have an on-screen keyboard, though, which would make it pretty useless. :P |
| 19:45.39 | orospakr | is battery life better than a day now? can is resume from suspend on a call? |
| 19:45.43 | orospakr | s/can is/can it/ |
| 19:47.05 | leinir | Yes, it will keep quite a long time on standby (not tested it, but it's more than a couple of days at any rate), and it resumes on incoming calls and texts :) |
| 19:47.13 | orospakr | ooh! |
| 19:47.26 | orospakr | that is an improvement from last time I checked. |
| 19:47.39 | orospakr | link to an image? |
| 19:48.05 | leinir | They're up on http://qtopia.net/ like they used to be :) |
| 19:48.21 | leinir | You're looking for 4.4.1 :) |
| 19:49.27 | Shrimpy_ | which has more functions that work qtopia(extended) or debian |
| 19:51.36 | leinir | Phone stuff, it's qt extended |
| 19:51.47 | leinir | Other stuff, it's of course Debian, because of how it's done :) |
| 19:51.49 | *** join/#openmoko haakeyar (n=haakeyar@cB83A4BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 19:52.07 | leinir | (it's a full desktop, where qt extended is a more phone-ish system) |
| 19:55.01 | parodyoflanguage | Can anyone explain the SIM card thing? I've never used one before, right now I'm with Verizon. Who would I have to use as a provider? A web reference would work as well. |
| 19:55.58 | cjb_ie | any provider that'll sell you a sim card... |
| 19:56.19 | *** join/#openmoko evolux (n=evolux@g228077096.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:56.29 | parodyoflanguage | cjb_ie: i.e.? |
| 19:56.36 | rooly | at&t, tmobile |
| 19:56.49 | nullpuppy | verizon uses a CDMA network. the openmoko phone uses GSM, so you would need a company that uses GSM, such as at&t or tmobile |
| 19:56.58 | parodyoflanguage | Okay, thanks. |
| 19:57.11 | rooly | you could, of course...make your own |
| 19:57.23 | parodyoflanguage | I'm not familiar with any of this stuff. |
| 19:57.25 | rooly | but that would be more work than necessary |
| 19:57.32 | cjb_ie | rooly: make his own sim card? |
| 19:57.37 | rooly | no, phone company |
| 19:57.57 | cjb_ie | that would imply making a sim card too :) |
| 19:58.04 | rooly | true... |
| 19:58.12 | *** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-078-042-085-014.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 19:58.23 | cjb_ie | and there might be spectrum licensing issues |
| 19:58.25 | parodyoflanguage | Make my own phone company :) |
| 19:58.31 | cjb_ie | damn the FCC |
| 19:58.41 | parodyoflanguage | Build my own cell towers. |
| 19:58.52 | rooly | sighs |
| 19:59.08 | rooly | when is the wifi power gonna be configurable in userspace |
| 19:59.54 | orospakr | leinir, 4.4.1 doesn't appear to be listed on http://qtopia.net/modules/devices/openmoko.php |
| 19:59.58 | parodyoflanguage | But yeah, a cell phone is just a radio reciever/transmitter. I don't think you can usually use it for actual radio functions though (like CB, FM). |
| 20:00.27 | leinir | orospakr: That's because you should be looking under Downloads :) |
| 20:00.30 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=toi@d54C2AAB7.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:00.33 | DocScrutinizer | cjb_ie: no need for simcard on your own network ;-) |
| 20:00.56 | DocScrutinizer | just implemet any other authetication method |
| 20:01.03 | parodyoflanguage | DocScrutinizer: You just need to build your own cell phone too :) |
| 20:01.06 | cjb_ie | DocScrutinizer: i guess, with control over the phone firmware and the network he wouldn't be limited to emergency calls only |
| 20:01.23 | rooly | the fr does e911? |
| 20:01.37 | DocScrutinizer | the BTS decides on emergency numbers AFAIK |
| 20:01.47 | rooly | or whatever |
| 20:01.54 | rooly | the fr does emergency tho? |
| 20:02.07 | cjb_ie | GSM spec is for all phones to permit access to 112 emergency number regardless of whether sim is in or not |
| 20:02.15 | DocScrutinizer | anyway every GSM MS should register without simcard as well |
| 20:02.24 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 20:02.41 | cjb_ie | not all networks conform to that spec, however. |
| 20:03.04 | DocScrutinizer | but your *own* network may implement whatever you want |
| 20:03.20 | DocScrutinizer | => no need for a sim |
| 20:03.24 | cjb_ie | as noted |
| 20:03.32 | parodyoflanguage | Interesting. |
| 20:03.44 | cjb_ie | but if he wants to roam from his own network to any other, he'll need a sim :) |
| 20:03.59 | cjb_ie | and roaming contracts, of course |
| 20:04.25 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, hard one to negotiate :-) |
| 20:04.28 | orospakr | parodyoflanguage, keep in mind that building a telephone company is not particularly easy. although if I recall correctly there have been some groups that have managed to make working GSM cells before. |
| 20:04.46 | parodyoflanguage | So if you install the same software on a bunch of neo freerunners in a small area (like a campground) you could have free calls within that area. |
| 20:05.09 | cjb_ie | yeah, it'd be like having eventphones |
| 20:05.14 | rooly | it would be a shitload of work, parodyoflanguage, but yes |
| 20:05.15 | DocScrutinizer | lol, you can buy a BTS11 for ~200USD on ebay |
| 20:05.37 | parodyoflanguage | (Which has always made sense to me. I don't know why I have to use the cell system to call someone next door.) |
| 20:05.39 | *** join/#openmoko Filip4BE (n=Filip@77.109.123.60) |
| 20:05.41 | cjb_ie | (eventphone = a bunch of german hackers that implemented roaming between DECT cordless base stations) |
| 20:05.53 | parodyoflanguage | cjb: ah. |
| 20:06.04 | cjb_ie | www.eventphone.de iirc |
| 20:06.16 | rooly | anyway, i'm still wondering why the wifi isn't in userspace |
| 20:06.29 | parodyoflanguage | It's cool though. The sky's the limit. |
| 20:06.30 | rooly | at least the power to the chip |
| 20:06.34 | quickdev | eventphone, I know that from 23c3, hehe |
| 20:06.39 | DocScrutinizer | cause it's a fullmac implementation |
| 20:07.02 | rooly | i'd google that, but my os is fonky right now |
| 20:07.04 | orospakr | leinir, well, I guess I just need to use dfu-util to flash on the kernel image and root image for 4.4.1, and I'm off to the races? |
| 20:07.18 | cjb_ie | i got a DECT phone at whatthehack - it worked very very well. they even rented a DDI range from the a dutch telco so people could receive calls from the outside world on their eventphones |
| 20:07.32 | leinir | orospakr: Yup, and make sure you grab the kernel modules for mwester's kernel as well :) |
| 20:07.52 | orospakr | ah, I was wondering about that. How are those installed? |
| 20:08.07 | rooly | so what is a fullmac implementation |
| 20:08.08 | orospakr | (I guess I will keep reading mwester's qtopia info page) |
| 20:09.02 | leinir | Yes, yes you will ;) |
| 20:09.35 | orospakr | leinir, I assume you mean that it's up to date. awesome. :) |
| 20:09.55 | orospakr | heh, 03 October. close enough. :) |
| 20:11.50 | *** join/#openmoko playya__ (n=playya@p579B8B4C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:21.20 | *** join/#openmoko Schugy (n=chris@Q2a72.q.pppool.de) |
| 20:25.40 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:27.09 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213-152-39-89.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) |
| 20:29.40 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@adsl-ull-79-61.49-151.net24.it) |
| 20:30.20 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl (n=thomas@dslb-088-075-082-183.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:31.37 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@adsl-89-217-159-52.adslplus.ch) |
| 20:32.22 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@logan.freelock.com) |
| 20:33.02 | *** part/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@adsl-89-217-159-52.adslplus.ch) |
| 20:34.03 | *** part/#openmoko lloyd_fedora (n=darkstar@86.99.34.14) |
| 20:37.06 | orospakr | leinir, phooey. it seems to hang at the uboot splashscreen. :( |
| 20:37.08 | *** join/#openmoko dskippy (n=dskippy@207-180-186-78.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 20:38.18 | orospakr | heh, I booted with USB in. I think that's why. |
| 20:38.30 | orospakr | now it's loading userspace... |
| 20:43.20 | *** part/#openmoko cryptix_ (n=cryptix@foxtrot076.server4you.de) |
| 20:49.11 | *** join/#openmoko haakeyar (n=haakeyar@cB83A4BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 20:52.05 | leachim_dot_eu | hello |
| 20:53.07 | leachim_dot_eu | does everybody know where i can get this theme? |
| 20:53.08 | leachim_dot_eu | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/a021c845b2f5bc5f98e3b6a78ad925f7.png |
| 20:54.45 | orospakr | whoa, qt441 is looking pretty good! |
| 20:56.13 | dskippy | orospakr: What about it? |
| 20:57.12 | orospakr | it WORKS. |
| 20:57.34 | orospakr | I wonder how long it takes to go into suspend. |
| 20:59.11 | *** part/#openmoko dwb (n=david@pdpc/supporter/active/dwb) |
| 21:00.28 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.94.44) |
| 21:01.02 | *** join/#openmoko arzej (n=arzej@dgy199.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 21:06.27 | *** join/#openmoko alfatangoxt (n=michele@host194-52-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:19.54 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@93-138-144-125.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 21:22.28 | *** part/#openmoko dskippy (n=dskippy@207-180-186-78.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 21:22.36 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@logan.freelock.com) |
| 21:28.19 | *** part/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-078-042-085-014.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 21:29.25 | *** join/#openmoko evolux (n=evolux@g228077096.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:30.27 | *** join/#openmoko nicfer (n=chatzill@168.226.105.24) |
| 21:30.53 | nicfer | one question, would be possible to install openmoko on an G1 phone? |
| 21:31.26 | viq | Do you have documentation for the hardware? |
| 21:32.45 | SpeedEvil | It's possible to install it on any phone with enough ROM and RAM. |
| 21:33.05 | SpeedEvil | If you are willing to reverse engineer any undocumented hardware/. |
| 21:33.18 | SpeedEvil | And write drivers. |
| 21:33.37 | SpeedEvil | And configure for the right size of screen and stuff |
| 21:33.42 | *** join/#openmoko poetic (n=isak@ua-83-227-225-24.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 21:36.17 | *** join/#openmoko evolux (n=evolux@g228077096.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:36.27 | *** join/#openmoko ato_ (n=ato@dingo.meshy.org) |
| 21:45.31 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.94.44) |
| 21:46.56 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009069208.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 21:47.23 | *** join/#openmoko nomeata (i=nobody@nomeata.de) |
| 21:50.21 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:52.56 | orospakr | nicfer, I think you've got it backwards. ;) |
| 21:53.13 | orospakr | nicfer, but yes, there is a public git tree at Google that should run on that device |
| 21:55.34 | orospakr | (git tree of the kernel, I should have been more specific) |
| 21:57.24 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 22:03.39 | *** join/#openmoko neolynx (n=u@32-123-204-62-pool.dsl.fcom.ch) |
| 22:11.14 | *** join/#openmoko KenYoung (n=Ken@pool-151-199-44-88.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:12.44 | *** join/#openmoko raynet (n=raynet@bb-81-175-213-113.dsl.phnet.fi) |
| 22:13.58 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 22:17.27 | Dave | KEnYoung :) |
| 22:18.51 | KenYoung | Hi Dave |
| 22:20.46 | Dave | Hallo :) |
| 22:20.57 | KenYoung | I swapped my Treo for a G1... |
| 22:20.57 | *** join/#openmoko reinouts (n=reinout@s559355fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 22:21.27 | Dave | oooh |
| 22:33.39 | TeLLuS | Yey, got my gprs working in om2008,9 with only the external muxer and no extra depend support libs. Now to make phone dialing work again... :/ reciving call is ok.. |
| 22:36.25 | Dave | :D |
| 22:44.54 | orospakr | KenYoung, nice. |
| 22:46.31 | KenYoung | orospakr, I feel so disloyal... |
| 22:47.29 | Dave | Why so? |
| 22:48.34 | orospakr | Android looks pretty awesome. I've done a little dev work with it with their SDK. |
| 22:48.38 | KenYoung | I had hoped I'd be able to use my Freerunner fulltime when I finally got sick of the Treo freeze-ups and crashes. |
| 22:49.05 | Dave | Ah :x |
| 22:49.12 | Dave | but were you running illume on it? :D |
| 22:49.22 | orospakr | illume? |
| 22:49.46 | *** join/#openmoko anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5B07F64C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:49.57 | Kensan | He said Yehova. |
| 22:49.59 | Dave | YES |
| 22:50.00 | KenYoung | Dave - no, I would nave, but I don't think my model Treo was supported - certainly I would not have been able to make calls with it. |
| 22:50.14 | Dave | oh, well, probably not |
| 22:50.16 | Dave | but oh well |
| 22:50.22 | KenYoung | s/have/nave |
| 22:50.23 | Dave | maybe for the better then |
| 22:50.41 | Dave | Ah, so you're disloyal, because you capitulated to the enemy? |
| 22:50.51 | Dave | Purchasing some apple crap? |
| 22:50.58 | Dave | or android rather |
| 22:51.00 | Dave | sorry |
| 22:51.01 | Dave | :D |
| 22:51.04 | KenYoung | Strategic retreat - I remain committed to OM! |
| 22:51.06 | Dave | Hope it works well, and you like it though :) |
| 22:51.08 | Dave | hah, yeah :) |
| 22:51.11 | Dave | good stuff Ken |
| 22:51.14 | Dave | We appreciate your work |
| 22:51.19 | Dave | And well, I personally like it! :) |
| 22:51.32 | KenYoung | Thanks very much, Dave. |
| 22:52.02 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (n=jd@modemcable100.136-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 22:52.20 | Dave | You are most certainly welcome, friend :) |
| 22:52.59 | KenYoung | I was rather underwhelmed by the third party Android ap.s which are available so far. |
| 22:53.12 | Dave | Disappointing, huh? |
| 22:53.49 | SpeedEvil | wishes he'd managed to get more done on the GPS reverse engineering of the last version. |
| 22:53.59 | KenYoung | no ssh, no shell (of course), no pdf viewer. |
| 22:54.09 | SpeedEvil | (with the aid of xephem modified to produce milimeter range-rates to satellites) |
| 22:54.14 | Dave | Ken :( |
| 22:54.15 | orospakr | I imagine ssh will be along before too long. |
| 22:55.04 | *** join/#openmoko data|2 (n=datachao@189.27.183.32.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 22:55.07 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: the Neo one? |
| 22:55.16 | KenYoung | orospakr, At the moment, the Freerunner has a lot more available for it. If the phone function were just rock-solid, it would be very competitive. |
| 22:55.29 | orospakr | Yeah, that would be nice. |
| 22:55.30 | Dave | Wow |
| 22:55.36 | Dave | That's pretty sad, Ken. |
| 22:56.05 | SpeedEvil | KenYoung: yes |
| 22:56.14 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 22:56.16 | SpeedEvil | kensan: |
| 22:57.00 | KenYoung | SpeedEvil, Did anyone actually reverse engineer the neo1973's GPS output? |
| 22:57.10 | SpeedEvil | KenYoung: not really |
| 22:57.21 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: oh, so you are still working on reverse engineering the driver? |
| 22:57.30 | SpeedEvil | KenYoung: we got to the stage where we could detect satellites, and read their doppler, but not any more than that |
| 22:57.44 | Dave | :( |
| 22:58.03 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: alas no - that pretty much stalled when it was announced that FR hadn't gone with the chip. |
| 22:58.15 | SpeedEvil | wonders if hte SIRF lawsuits will come to anything. |
| 22:58.27 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: yeah, that's what I thought thats why I was a bit surprised. |
| 22:59.01 | KenYoung | SpeedEvil, Did anyone try disassembling gllin? |
| 22:59.03 | SpeedEvil | (SIRF has been judged to have infringed Global Locates patents in several areas, and is awaiting judgement on penalties) |
| 22:59.10 | SpeedEvil | KenYoung: not directly I think |
| 22:59.34 | Kensan | hm... |
| 22:59.38 | mwester | Yeah, unfortunately the Global Locate/Broadcom folks also stopped working on it all as soon as they found out that the GTA02 was going with another chip. |
| 22:59.40 | SpeedEvil | KenYoung: protocol analysis of the serial datastream in conjunction with the visible satellites and known information on them |
| 23:00.34 | SpeedEvil | (though I note it's also in the Iphone 3G) |
| 23:01.02 | *** part/#openmoko Filip4BE (n=Filip@77.109.123.60) |
| 23:02.01 | Kensan | mwester: oh hey there. did you see the link I posted? |
| 23:02.12 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@124-170-224-116.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:02.15 | Kensan | mwester: http://repo.or.cz/w/linux-2.6/openmoko-kernel.git |
| 23:02.47 | Kensan | mwester: ops, just saw it. sorry |
| 23:03.07 | ixs | ahhhso |
| 23:03.12 | ixs | never mind |
| 23:03.13 | ixs | ewin |
| 23:03.53 | Kensan | raster: hi there. |
| 23:04.39 | *** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=chatzill@78-20-186-137.access.telenet.be) |
| 23:05.10 | *** join/#openmoko chomwitt_ (n=chomwitt@ppp-94-69-6-118.home.otenet.gr) |
| 23:07.02 | raster | Kensan: boo! |
| 23:07.03 | Kensan | mwester: how come you called it "knife-kernel"? Is there a story behind that name? ;) |
| 23:07.50 | Kensan | raster: been busy with e17 stuff? Interesting stuff the tomcpu... couldn't find much info though. |
| 23:08.46 | raster | Kensan: yes. been busy adding wizard stuff |
| 23:09.45 | Kensan | raster: ic. I've been very lazy so I did not get around making patches. |
| 23:10.40 | raster | no problems |
| 23:10.43 | raster | i've been busy myself |
| 23:12.11 | Dave | Rastermen |
| 23:14.59 | Kensan | raster: the thing you were talking about sometime this week (MINUS the eyecandy) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoTool#Screenshots |
| 23:15.03 | Kensan | ;) |
| 23:15.40 | raster | Dave: boo |
| 23:15.53 | Dave | AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH |
| 23:16.03 | raster | Kensan: nice. |
| 23:16.04 | *** join/#openmoko TeLLuS_ (n=Johan@179.108.227.87.static.f.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 23:16.53 | Kensan | raster: that's a big minus, the eye-candy ;) |
| 23:19.17 | raster | thats good enough |
| 23:19.21 | raster | better than cmd-line |
| 23:19.21 | raster | :) |
| 23:23.20 | *** part/#openmoko victor362 (n=victor36@i59F5FA25.versanet.de) |
| 23:24.51 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo1 (n=paul@76-10-173-74.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 23:29.22 | chomwitt_ | hi. i'd like to ask if gsmd , gsm stack are open source ? |
| 23:29.57 | KenYoung | chomwitt_, I think everything which runs on the SOC CPU is open source. |
| 23:31.19 | pelifante | chomwitt_: yes, they are |
| 23:31.47 | mjr | depends on what levels of the gsm stack you're talking about. The GSM chip is proprietary. |
| 23:32.47 | chomwitt_ | ok. show has gsm chip been reversed engineered or its specs are open? |
| 23:34.01 | pelifante | it uses a standard command set |
| 23:34.35 | pelifante | most modems look identically to the software running on the cpu because they talk AT commands |
| 23:35.01 | SpeedEvil | chomwitt_: it's not been reverse engineered - but hardware specs and programming info is out there. Firmware isn't. |
| 23:38.00 | chomwitt_ | ok. thanks a lot. |
| 23:40.04 | Kensan | pelifante: AT commands are far from "standard" unfortunately :( |
| 23:41.30 | Kensan | raster: I should be getting my debugboard towards the end of the week. I might take a look at qi when I get it... |
| 23:41.41 | pelifante | they are common enough that you can make a gsmd and a dialer that works for most modems :p |
| 23:42.21 | Kensan | pelifante: most vendors have their own "standardized" version of AT commandos. |
| 23:42.23 | chomwitt_ | :-) |
| 23:42.55 | Kensan | pelifante: when it comes to GSM I mean. |
| 23:43.27 | SpeedEvil | ponders AT commandos. |
| 23:44.16 | pelifante | Kensan: well, you're right that most vendors don't comply fully to gsm specs even if they claim they do... but there's a common subset that seems to be good enough |
| 23:44.41 | SpeedEvil | Or at least 'good enough' - with per-chip quirk lists |
| 23:45.20 | *** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=matic@89.143.138.91) |
| 23:45.26 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p579B8B4C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:45.52 | slaxxin | http://planet.openmoko.org/ |
| 23:46.10 | slaxxin | thats a pretty broken base image |
| 23:47.45 | slaxxin | i like the combination shaded lamp+ mini fan blade boot splash |
| 23:50.06 | Dave | heh, slaxxin |
| 23:50.25 | slaxxin | dave i got no sound on the base image |
| 23:50.39 | Dave | sweet |
| 23:50.40 | *** join/#openmoko TeLLuS__ (n=Johan@179.108.227.87.static.f.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 23:51.33 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.94.44) |
| 23:51.51 | slaxxin | dave would u tell me what this means? |
| 23:51.54 | slaxxin | sed -i -e s,asu,illume, /etc/enlightenment/default_profile |
| 23:52.45 | slaxxin | what is sed |
| 23:52.53 | ixs | replace asu with illumne in the file /etc/enlightenment/default_profile |
| 23:53.03 | ixs | slaxxin: sed is the "stream editor" |
| 23:53.13 | ixs | think about it as a scriptable editor |
| 23:53.22 | slaxxin | wow |
| 23:53.41 | pelifante | man sed will give you the exact info, but yeah, here it's used to replace occurrences of "asu" with "illume" |
| 23:53.44 | ixs | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sed |
| 23:54.58 | *** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 23:55.57 | Dave | haha |
| 23:58.14 | Dave | Sargun. |
| 23:58.18 | Sargun | Dave. |
| 23:58.29 | Sargun | oh, god this is ghetto. I have to do mouth-to-mouth on my laptop to get it to boot up |
| 23:58.57 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@60-241-37-3.static.tpgi.com.au) |
