| 00:00.21 | *** join/#openmoko Isajha (n=Isajha4@wrzb-4d00cd3c.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 00:01.22 | Kensan | raster: well it's weekend which means 2 workdays ahead for you ;) |
| 00:02.35 | raster | i'm at my desk |
| 00:02.38 | raster | plodding away |
| 00:03.48 | Kensan | raster: good, I guess I can go to bed then *heh* |
| 00:04.24 | Kensan | raster: did you get the mail? I am just doing another illume-image build. |
| 00:04.30 | raster | yes |
| 00:04.32 | raster | committed |
| 00:04.32 | raster | :) |
| 00:04.40 | Kensan | uh ok |
| 00:04.47 | raster | patches that don't apply will be solved when i next rebase |
| 00:05.14 | raster | when i do that i'll add in frameworkd etc. again |
| 00:05.16 | *** join/#openmoko mattl (n=mattl@fsf/staff/mattl) |
| 00:05.16 | Kensan | raster: yeah thought so. just wanted to give you a "status update" while I was at it. |
| 00:05.28 | mattl | hello. does anyone here use FDOM with GPRS? |
| 00:05.32 | Kensan | raster: oh, want a larger testuser base eh? ;) |
| 00:05.38 | raster | no |
| 00:05.48 | raster | just that it stopped being a bad behaver :) |
| 00:06.05 | raster | i am busy doing an entry widget for elementary |
| 00:06.08 | raster | man thats a lot of work |
| 00:06.12 | Kensan | raster: laforges input filter? |
| 00:06.27 | raster | but... it's enough now |
| 00:06.27 | Kensan | raster: entry? text-input? |
| 00:06.37 | raster | Kensan: yeah. mickey says it's all upstream now |
| 00:06.39 | raster | yes |
| 00:06.48 | raster | efl has been pretty weak there |
| 00:06.52 | raster | but it's got the whole hog now |
| 00:06.57 | raster | with markup and formatitng |
| 00:06.59 | raster | "rtf" like |
| 00:07.02 | Kensan | raster: ah right. Yeah I think with that usage dropped down to 2% |
| 00:07.02 | raster | anchors and links |
| 00:07.06 | raster | etc. |
| 00:07.16 | raster | and it looks pretty |
| 00:07.18 | Kensan | raster: ah yeah you were telling about it. |
| 00:07.22 | raster | as all the selection are edje |
| 00:07.25 | raster | the cursor is edje |
| 00:07.32 | Kensan | raster: nice. |
| 00:07.33 | raster | link styling is in edje |
| 00:07.42 | raster | so your links can glow and pulsate |
| 00:08.00 | raster | in fact the default cursor has a subtle floodlight facing up that pulsates slowly |
| 00:08.09 | raster | can't see it on the pure white bg |
| 00:08.09 | mattl | paulproteus: what are you using on your phone? |
| 00:08.16 | raster | but over a selection it's noticable |
| 00:08.16 | Kensan | raster: heh, see eye-candy is your department not OMs ;) |
| 00:08.27 | phobie | mattl I tried but noone can hear me |
| 00:08.32 | raster | and if the text is "dark" (like m as it has lots of down strokes) |
| 00:08.49 | raster | Kensan: nah. the problem is - eye candy was done long ago |
| 00:08.53 | mattl | phobie: when the GPRS is turned on? |
| 00:08.54 | raster | well the mechanisms to do it |
| 00:09.04 | raster | everyone thinks time is wated on it |
| 00:09.05 | *** join/#openmoko cnwdup_ (n=harlekin@hnvr-4dbd6598.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 00:09.05 | raster | its not |
| 00:09.13 | phobie | forget it |
| 00:09.13 | Kensan | raster: eye-candy for the whole gang. that's what I am talking about! |
| 00:09.16 | raster | it's just using something that brings in candy for free |
| 00:09.18 | paulproteus | mattbnz, Hey. |
| 00:09.22 | paulproteus | mattl, rather |
| 00:09.28 | raster | and enouhg professional self-respect not to produce somethng butt-ugly |
| 00:09.47 | Kensan | raster: hehe butt-ugly seems to work for way too mayn people... |
| 00:09.50 | paulproteus | mattl, An old Qtopia Snapshto. |
| 00:09.54 | mattl | ah |
| 00:10.04 | raster | ie when you think it's done (don't need candy" if it has a black box and white text with a green blopb for a cursor - thats ennough |
| 00:10.05 | Dave | Raster! |
| 00:10.09 | raster | i prefer to see it the apple way |
| 00:10.11 | Dave | I see you there! |
| 00:10.13 | raster | its done when its shiny :) |
| 00:10.15 | paulproteus | I'm up for whatever works and preferably enables more interesting apps, but lately I've been super swamped, not able to try stuff. |
| 00:10.17 | Dave | hah |
| 00:10.30 | mattl | raster: and wrapped in DRM ;) |
| 00:10.35 | raster | ok |
| 00:10.37 | raster | no drm |
| 00:10.42 | raster | now that is not part of being "done" |
| 00:10.58 | raster | that's part of "fuck the users" |
| 00:10.59 | paulproteus | raster, He's making fun of your reference to Apple earlier. (-: |
| 00:11.02 | raster | :) |
| 00:11.06 | paulproteus | Heh! |
| 00:11.12 | Dave | Damn raster |
| 00:11.13 | Kensan | mattl: you buy openmoko phones not rent them from OM ;) |
| 00:11.21 | raster | but iot isnt a lot more effort to make it polished and shiny |
| 00:11.22 | raster | really |
| 00:11.35 | raster | *IF* the tools you use drag that in for you doing most work for you |
| 00:11.52 | phobie | mattl I just ment that I could not make calls, just played the games and then isntalled the next image (no gprs) |
| 00:12.40 | Kensan | raster: btw I gave mdev a shot just a couple hours ago. Won't boot anymore *haha* Now I am not so sure it's good to not be sick anymore |
| 00:13.12 | raster | aaah |
| 00:13.16 | raster | u'll have to ask xora |
| 00:14.03 | mattl | phobie: ah. i can make lots of calls and do maps. i just want GPRS and then i'll be happy. |
| 00:14.54 | phobie | mattl since the currently installed illume is so much more responsive, I try to manage it with that image. |
| 00:15.07 | mattl | what's illume? |
| 00:15.27 | phobie | listen to raster and Kensan |
| 00:15.54 | phobie | http://download.enlightenment.org/misc/Illume/Freerunner/2008-10-12/ |
| 00:16.30 | phobie | mattl: gromez just told me to give that image a try several hours ago |
| 00:16.58 | Kensan | raster: I'll figure it out I guess. I won't be going anywhere this weekend. Still a bit weak. |
| 00:17.01 | Kensan | damn flue |
| 00:17.04 | Kensan | flu |
| 00:17.08 | Kensan | whatever |
| 00:17.13 | Kensan | arghs |
| 00:17.30 | raster | ugh |
| 00:17.32 | raster | yeah |
| 00:17.33 | *** join/#openmoko zmedico (n=zmedico@ip68-4-152-120.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 00:17.34 | raster | git moved again |
| 00:17.45 | Kensan | raster: huh? |
| 00:17.45 | raster | Kensan: winter coming eh? |
| 00:17.50 | raster | Kensan: oe git |
| 00:17.58 | raster | i have to fresly check out my git tree |
| 00:18.00 | Kensan | raster: no it's actually pretty warm here. |
| 00:18.02 | raster | and now reapply all my patches |
| 00:18.16 | Kensan | raster: git-format-patch |
| 00:18.20 | raster | yeah |
| 00:18.23 | raster | i have my patches saved |
| 00:18.40 | phobie | why are there no opkg-sources in the illume image? |
| 00:18.56 | raster | phobie: ? |
| 00:19.12 | Kensan | raster: why do you use svn for your things? feeling more comfortable with it? |
| 00:19.36 | raster | Kensan: unliek git - it doesnt fuck me over |
| 00:19.41 | raster | i like it |
| 00:19.43 | raster | it works |
| 00:19.51 | Kensan | raster: I was in germany last weekend and the damn hotel room was too cold :( |
| 00:20.05 | phobie | raster: just http://my-distribution.example/ |
| 00:20.14 | ieatlint | hey raster... have you tried qi instead of uboot yet? |
| 00:20.14 | Kensan | raster: well use what works best for you |
| 00:20.15 | raster | Kensan: aaah blame the germans! |
| 00:20.18 | KaZeR | Kensan, my build has just finished :) |
| 00:20.24 | ieatlint | knocked 20s off the boot time of your image |
| 00:20.26 | raster | ieatlint: no. |
| 00:20.34 | Kensan | raster: haha zee schermans |
| 00:20.38 | raster | i consider uboot "out of scole" |
| 00:20.39 | raster | :) |
| 00:20.52 | raster | phobie: umm.. i dont touch that |
| 00:20.59 | raster | i simple have the same stufffso does |
| 00:21.03 | raster | no feeds are set up |
| 00:21.07 | raster | as i dont provide a feed |
| 00:21.31 | Kensan | raster: maybe the bitbakery hides some ;) |
| 00:21.45 | raster | ieatlint: what does qi lose as opposed to uboot? |
| 00:21.52 | ieatlint | ok, what does scole mean? hehe |
| 00:22.03 | raster | Kensan: i'll leave it up to the bakery :) |
| 00:22.07 | phobie | raster: wouldn't it be good to include http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/unstable/ or something? |
| 00:22.09 | ieatlint | it loses a boot menu |
| 00:22.10 | raster | ieatlint: oops. scope |
| 00:22.11 | raster | :) |
| 00:22.25 | ieatlint | and it doesn't turn on the framebuffer for the boot process |
| 00:22.31 | Kensan | phobie: illume is rasters devel image. he leaves polishing etc up to others |
| 00:22.32 | raster | ieatlint: but it can do the rest? (splash, serial console, dfu etc.)? |
| 00:22.57 | raster | phobie: it wouldnt be because that wil conflict with the packages i build |
| 00:23.00 | raster | with versions etc. |
| 00:23.06 | raster | i dont TOUCH the opkg setup |
| 00:23.07 | ieatlint | definitely not dfu... haven't tried serial console |
| 00:23.15 | raster | its directly as fso and oe have it set up by default |
| 00:23.25 | raster | ieatlint: aaah - that'd make reflahs a bit hard |
| 00:23.30 | ieatlint | and no splash... it turns on the backlight, but doesn't touch the framebuffer |
| 00:23.37 | ieatlint | NOR uboot is still there |
| 00:23.42 | ieatlint | and perfectly fine for flashing |
| 00:23.53 | raster | i'll live |
| 00:24.02 | raster | i'll leave qi for "production fast boot" |
| 00:24.14 | raster | for me at least it's out of scope |
| 00:24.17 | ieatlint | anyway, you don't see a scrolling kernel load |
| 00:24.26 | ieatlint | and you don't see init |
| 00:24.26 | raster | but if i was doing a production device - i'd defintiely consider it |
| 00:24.34 | ieatlint | goes straight to the gui loading |
| 00:24.41 | raster | yeah |
| 00:24.51 | phobie | raster: does that mean, currently illume can not be used to place phonecalls or what has to be installed? |
| 00:24.52 | ieatlint | (about 5 seconds from turning on to the gui load splash) |
| 00:24.55 | raster | as long as all it does it do minimal serial console for rescue |
| 00:24.56 | Kensan | ieatlint: have you tried it? |
| 00:25.05 | raster | and read/unzip zimage and jump into it |
| 00:25.06 | raster | thats good |
| 00:25.08 | ieatlint | Kensan, yeah |
| 00:25.21 | raster | phobie: it has zero phone software on it |
| 00:25.25 | raster | its a very bare image |
| 00:25.30 | Kensan | ieatlint: do you have any pointers? I might give it a shot |
| 00:25.33 | ieatlint | raster, yeah, as i said, it took 20 seconds off the boot time... that's impressive for just changing a bootloader and nothing else |
| 00:25.41 | raster | ieatlint: thats excellenmt |
| 00:25.49 | raster | seriously |
| 00:25.56 | Kensan | ieatlint: well uboot takes 7 seconds and the kernel itself takes another 14 |
| 00:26.00 | Dave | Greetings friends. |
| 00:26.02 | raster | for a production "consumer" system i'd more than say "use it" |
| 00:26.04 | Kensan | then you start with init... |
| 00:26.10 | ieatlint | Kensan, no real pointers... http://people.openmoko.org/andy/qi-andy_ab8665e9ac10a054.udfu is the bin (flash it to u-boot), http://git.openmoko.org/?p=qi.git;a=summary is the source |
| 00:26.16 | Kensan | which is whole other bag of candy |
| 00:26.25 | Dave | candy? :D |
| 00:26.29 | ieatlint | hey dave |
| 00:26.37 | Kensan | ieatlint: right |
| 00:26.39 | raster | *IF it had dfu and the ability to maybe "halt on serial console if u hold down power button while powering on" it'd be perfect for both camps i think |
| 00:26.55 | ieatlint | oh, and it supports both sd and nand boots |
| 00:27.02 | raster | yeah |
| 00:27.08 | Kensan | ieatlint: but I would need serial console |
| 00:27.09 | raster | i just want dfu available with trivial ease |
| 00:27.15 | phobie | does that mean I can install a phone application from a other repository or is it a unusable development image? |
| 00:27.17 | raster | i use it all the time for reflash |
| 00:27.23 | Kensan | phobie: yes |
| 00:27.28 | ieatlint | it'll look at the first partition on the sd expecting ext2, and will load /boot/uImage.bin ... falling back to nand if it can't boot from sd |
| 00:27.33 | raster | phobie: yes. |
| 00:27.41 | phobie | Kensan: "yes" to a "or"-question??? |
| 00:27.47 | raster | u'll just have to fix the feed config files to point ot a working repo |
| 00:28.09 | ieatlint | well, for flashing, nor is easy enough.. but serial console is an issue |
| 00:28.10 | raster | ieatlint: as i said - it seems pretty awesome |
| 00:28.10 | Kensan | phobie: go with the first part of your question. |
| 00:28.17 | phobie | Any No one lives forever fans here? |
| 00:28.19 | raster | ieatlint: just missing dfu |
| 00:28.25 | raster | (and serial co nsole unknown) |
| 00:28.31 | phobie | "I mean jes to the first part an no to the second part" |
| 00:28.36 | raster | adding dfu shouldnt make it an slower |
| 00:28.39 | raster | just a bit bigger |
| 00:29.02 | ieatlint | raster, but it would also require the ability to pause the bootloader |
| 00:29.02 | raster | Receiving objects: 11% (29296/248131), 6.19 MiB | 9 KiB/s |
| 00:29.03 | phobie | s/jes/yes |
| 00:29.09 | raster | thats pretty rediculously slow |
| 00:29.26 | raster | ieatlint: yes. just need to check a gpio pin - power button |
| 00:29.35 | ieatlint | i suppose indeed |
| 00:29.40 | Kensan | raster: from oe? |
| 00:29.45 | ieatlint | and you wouldn't really need the screen turned on for it |
| 00:29.49 | raster | if its down pause boot - if it stays down for > 1 second permanently pause |
| 00:30.01 | raster | (ie its possible it'll be down ad user just turned on device but hasnt released it yet) |
| 00:30.12 | *** join/#openmoko JesseL6272 (n=Lemon@ip98-181-45-13.br.br.cox.net) |
| 00:30.13 | raster | ke yeah |
| 00:30.19 | raster | Kensan: yeah |
| 00:30.25 | Kensan | raster: I had ~ 650 kb |
| 00:30.38 | Kensan | raster: maybe they are messing around with it |
| 00:30.42 | raster | maybe |
| 00:30.47 | raster | but its not my internude |
| 00:30.53 | Kensan | raster: so the url I put in the patch is actually not working anymore? |
| 00:30.59 | raster | i normally can pull about 2mb/sec |
| 00:31.04 | raster | bytes - not bits) |
| 00:31.05 | Kensan | internude? |
| 00:31.10 | raster | oh |
| 00:31.14 | raster | thats from your patchg |
| 00:31.19 | raster | my old git tree doesnt work anymore |
| 00:31.21 | Kensan | are you trying to top my boobsplash?!? |
| 00:31.24 | raster | Kensan: internet |
| 00:31.26 | raster | internude |
| 00:31.27 | Kensan | *heh* |
| 00:31.29 | raster | nude |
| 00:31.30 | Kensan | classic |
| 00:31.34 | ieatlint | i wonder how long before the switch to ubifs comes too... there's already a bin of 2.6.27 that will boot the phone, but without mtd support (must use sd) |
| 00:31.34 | raster | the net is all about porn |
| 00:31.34 | Kensan | instant classic |
| 00:31.39 | raster | so i call it the internude |
| 00:32.06 | Kensan | ieatlint: I guess somebody has to benchmark and post to the ml ;) |
| 00:32.09 | raster | ieatlint: i'd like to know what benefits ubifs bringsa |
| 00:32.19 | raster | got a rundown of ubif vs jffs2? |
| 00:32.22 | ieatlint | better wearing from what i hear |
| 00:32.41 | raster | currently uninteresting there |
| 00:32.43 | raster | :) |
| 00:32.52 | raster | more thinkign features/performance |
| 00:32.53 | raster | eg |
| 00:33.04 | Kensan | raster: I believe mount time is drastically faster |
| 00:33.06 | raster | beign able to mark files, file types and file name glob masks to say "dont compress" |
| 00:33.07 | raster | etc. |
| 00:33.11 | raster | aaah mount time good |
| 00:34.16 | raster | http://osl.sed.hu/wiki/ubifs/index.php/IOzone |
| 00:34.18 | ieatlint | apparently it's faster too |
| 00:34.31 | Kensan | raster: http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/linux-kernel/2008/3/27/1273514 |
| 00:35.17 | *** join/#openmoko Kinetic (n=mike@pool-70-16-161-83.hag.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:35.50 | raster | hmmm |
| 00:36.16 | raster | mixed bag of results |
| 00:37.00 | Kensan | raster: yeah |
| 00:37.05 | Kensan | raster: especially read... |
| 00:37.56 | raster | reads also are one of the mostcommon thi9ngs |
| 00:38.05 | raster | ie huge performance bottleneck |
| 00:38.23 | raster | beats logfs |
| 00:38.23 | ieatlint | reading is overrated |
| 00:38.32 | raster | but thats not being used |
| 00:38.35 | ieatlint | this has been my position since school |
| 00:38.48 | Kensan | ieatlint: heh |
| 00:38.59 | phobie | "close to be production ready" closer than om :) |
| 00:39.06 | phobie | so use it |
| 00:39.20 | Kensan | well seems like somebody should benchmark the whole bag of flash fs |
| 00:39.24 | ieatlint | it is production ready, that info is from like march |
| 00:39.32 | *** join/#openmoko hklein (n=hklein@i59F701C9.versanet.de) |
| 00:39.36 | ieatlint | it's in 2.6.27 |
| 00:39.37 | Kensan | well its in 2.6.27 so |
| 00:39.56 | Kensan | and its not marked as experimental right? |
| 00:40.07 | ieatlint | uhm... let me check |
| 00:40.45 | Kensan | no just "new" |
| 00:40.46 | Kensan | hehe |
| 00:41.22 | Kensan | raster: dont update oe now |
| 00:41.31 | Kensan | raster: probably too late :( |
| 00:41.39 | Kensan | raster: oe is broken atm. |
| 00:41.46 | raster | hmm |
| 00:41.50 | raster | seems ubifs looks good overall |
| 00:41.58 | raster | but needs some extensions methinks |
| 00:42.05 | raster | Kensan: shit |
| 00:42.21 | ieatlint | it should free up a bit of ram too |
| 00:42.29 | ieatlint | which is always good |
| 00:42.56 | raster | sure |
| 00:43.01 | raster | i like the write-back |
| 00:43.06 | raster | thats a bad bit of jffs2 |
| 00:43.12 | raster | iv'e noticed it |
| 00:43.16 | raster | itsa nasty actually |
| 00:43.33 | raster | i even considered farming off config file writes in e17 to a forked slave proc |
| 00:43.40 | raster | ie on save fork() |
| 00:43.45 | raster | and the child does the write and quits |
| 00:43.57 | raster | parent queues any more writes until child exits |
| 00:44.03 | Kensan | raster: hal is broken for me |
| 00:44.09 | raster | as such on normal fss's |
| 00:44.13 | raster | like ext2/3 etc. |
| 00:44.19 | KaZeR | mmm. i succeeded using bitbake, but it generated opk files. what is needed to get ipk files? (i followed this guide : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/BitBake) |
| 00:44.22 | raster | this si a no-braienr as the fs is write-back and does this for u |
| 00:44.38 | Kensan | KaZeR: opk is as good as ipk |
| 00:44.44 | raster | zash: same thing |
| 00:44.48 | raster | KaZeR: ipk == opk |
| 00:44.52 | KaZeR | ok thanks |
| 00:45.01 | ieatlint | i read a post from one guy claiming ubifs knocked 15s off the boot of his olpc vs jffs2 |
| 00:45.03 | KaZeR | should it be renamed to conform some kind of norm? |
| 00:45.09 | ieatlint | i didn't even know the olpc used mtd, hehe |
| 00:45.12 | raster | ieatlint: i'd believe it |
| 00:45.18 | raster | the fjss fs scan is nasty for mount time |
| 00:45.28 | raster | qi + ubifs shoudl nixe a lot of boot time |
| 00:45.31 | raster | nix |
| 00:45.48 | Kensan | raster: it seems that there's still some backslash from the git migration... |
| 00:46.00 | ieatlint | indeed, if ubifs took 15s off the boot.. combined with qi, that'd be 35s... impressive |
| 00:46.26 | Kensan | ieatlint: mdev for udev and you get another 10 |
| 00:46.37 | Kensan | roughly |
| 00:46.52 | ieatlint | wheee... |
| 00:46.55 | raster | ieatlint: yes |
| 00:47.02 | raster | .i still think it needs smarts |
| 00:47.06 | raster | maybe i should play with it one day |
| 00:47.19 | ieatlint | how about parallel init scripts? |
| 00:47.24 | raster | ie patch it |
| 00:47.36 | Kensan | ieatlint: not that much to benefit I think. |
| 00:47.56 | mjr | might help some, not a silver bullet |
| 00:48.03 | Kensan | ieatlint: laforge mentioned he had upstart running localy on his fso image |
| 00:48.25 | Kensan | ieatlint: mentioned he had a "slight" speedup but rather minor |
| 00:49.03 | raster | very likely |
| 00:49.10 | raster | the problem with boot is doign silly things |
| 00:49.12 | raster | in a silyl way |
| 00:49.21 | raster | jffs2 performance on mount is a problem |
| 00:49.23 | raster | uboot is |
| 00:49.30 | ieatlint | well, unsurprising i suppose... but still.. we're talking about nearly half the boot time if we net 20s from qi, 15 from ubifs and 10 from mdev... 45s |
| 00:49.30 | raster | and runing ldconfig on boot is |
| 00:49.42 | ieatlint | that's about half the boot time |
| 00:50.15 | *** join/#openmoko hklein (n=hklein@i59F701C9.versanet.de) |
| 00:50.51 | mwester | We need an adaptable userspace IMO --- we give the impression of long boot, and even worse long resume times, when we can fix a lot by just properly scheduling things so that the bits that the users want at the moment should be the things that start first. |
| 00:51.00 | Kensan | raster: I got another 20 off simply by removing unneded stuff |
| 00:51.12 | raster | bootmisc.sh |
| 00:51.17 | raster | it NEEDS to lose the ldconfig |
| 00:51.23 | Kensan | raster: yep, lots of stopid things in there |
| 00:51.30 | raster | yup |
| 00:51.32 | phobie | raster: why is the config saved to / and not to /home/root/ ? |
| 00:51.33 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-238-123.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 00:51.34 | mwester | As a specific example, if the phone resumes from GSM, all CPU and I/O priority should go to the processes directly dealing with setting up to allow the user to identify the incoming call and answer it. |
| 00:51.39 | raster | just remove the stupidity |
| 00:51.43 | mwester | (rather than restoring GPS state) |
| 00:51.44 | raster | remove anything from scrityps that does find |
| 00:51.45 | Kensan | mwester: yeah, especially for all the hardware that can be loaded as-needed |
| 00:51.48 | raster | or ls |
| 00:51.53 | raster | or grep 0-r |
| 00:51.58 | raster | anythign that rummages through ltos of fs |
| 00:52.22 | raster | phobie: config ends up there because of OE bugs |
| 00:52.30 | raster | phobie: when Oe starts x HOME is / |
| 00:52.36 | raster | thats why |
| 00:52.48 | phobie | urgh |
| 00:52.54 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@212.98.171.13) |
| 00:52.56 | raster | om fixed that ages ago |
| 00:53.02 | raster | but xora hasn' |
| 00:53.02 | Kensan | mwester: do you know how to fix the oe "conf/checksum.ini" build issues? |
| 00:53.10 | raster | but xora hasn't merrged ina lto fo oms' patches/fixes |
| 00:53.26 | raster | i can probably fix it... |
| 00:53.36 | mwester | Kensan: I'm living in checksum hell right now. |
| 00:53.39 | phobie | so it's just a communication problem? |
| 00:53.54 | raster | dunno |
| 00:54.00 | raster | i'd have to ask xora why he hasnt merged these |
| 00:54.03 | raster | is conflict |
| 00:54.05 | mwester | Kensan: what's the missing url? |
| 00:54.07 | raster | or just doesnt know of them |
| 00:54.08 | Kensan | mwester: is there a howto or a few pointers how to resolve these? |
| 00:54.09 | raster | or lack fo time |
| 00:54.20 | raster | xora WORKS for om |
| 00:54.28 | phobie | it is imporatant because you can not mount "something" to / |
| 00:54.31 | Kensan | mwester: http://hal.freedesktop.org/releases/hal-0.5.9.tar.gz |
| 00:54.34 | raster | so any comms problems are the usual intra-company ones |
| 00:54.35 | raster | :) |
| 00:54.47 | Kensan | mwester: tell me how to fix it :) |
| 00:55.24 | Kensan | raster: well graeme has done mdev but it's nowhere to be found... |
| 00:55.34 | raster | Kensan: :( |
| 00:55.48 | mwester | Kensan: http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Checksums |
| 00:55.59 | mwester | Do you have OE commit access? |
| 00:56.03 | Kensan | #raster: I wrote a mail to devel about boot time: |
| 00:56.08 | Kensan | mwester: nope |
| 00:56.18 | Kensan | mwester: maybe I can relay patches via you? |
| 00:56.26 | raster | crap |
| 00:56.31 | mwester | Ok. Then I'll add that one to my list of many to add to the checksums.ini file. |
| 00:56.34 | raster | and i dont have an oe tree as i nuked it to get a new one |
| 00:56.37 | raster | and its SLOOOOW |
| 00:56.50 | mwester | Sure, send me what you encounter... |
| 00:57.14 | Kensan | mwester: ok cool. what's your addy? |
| 00:57.30 | raster | phobie: i'll patrch upo x init to set HOME right and put it in my 0patchset |
| 00:57.38 | raster | it's up to mickey/graeme etc. to pcik up the patches |
| 00:57.42 | raster | i have pointed them to them |
| 00:57.43 | raster | :) |
| 00:58.01 | mwester | Kensan: mwester@dls.net |
| 00:58.04 | raster | i just have no commit access to oe's tree so i cant put any of this in for you |
| 00:58.10 | raster | thats why i maintain my own in e's svn |
| 00:58.19 | phobie | raster: fine! |
| 00:58.25 | Kensan | raster: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2008-October/002596.html |
| 00:58.34 | Kensan | mwester: thanks I will see what I can do |
| 00:58.43 | raster | Kensan: i saw that one :) |
| 00:58.57 | raster | Kensan: btw can u list all the things u have done? |
| 00:59.02 | raster | i can do them ones my oe tree is back |
| 00:59.07 | raster | and make proper patches of them? |
| 00:59.07 | Dave | :p |
| 01:00.03 | raster | phobie: the HOME=/ has disturbed me before. i noticed it @ om already and thats why its fixed there |
| 01:00.07 | raster | but OE has yet to follow suit |
| 01:00.09 | raster | i'll do it |
| 01:00.19 | raster | just once my tree is back |
| 01:02.22 | Kensan | raster: well not much actually |
| 01:02.24 | *** join/#openmoko skorzen (n=skorzen@89-180-137-167.net.novis.pt) |
| 01:02.36 | raster | 1 ldconfig nix |
| 01:02.39 | raster | i know thats slow |
| 01:02.40 | raster | what else? |
| 01:02.51 | raster | (removed what for example)? |
| 01:02.57 | Kensan | raster: let me see |
| 01:03.41 | raster | Kensan: i'll write them down |
| 01:03.44 | raster | implement |
| 01:03.46 | raster | and build |
| 01:03.49 | raster | and have full patches |
| 01:03.54 | raster | thats can go into oe |
| 01:04.14 | Kensan | raster: I am looking for my notes |
| 01:04.45 | Kensan | raster: I will see, that oe builds illume cleanly. |
| 01:04.59 | KaZeR | to anyone using navit (or wanting to test it) i've build an updated package (1255 is really old) : http://www.kazer.org/navit/FreeRunner/ |
| 01:05.08 | Kensan | raster: since I am building right now and the checksum buildfailures that come up I will send patch to mwester |
| 01:05.19 | KaZeR | maps can be fetched directly from http://maps.navit-project.org/download/ and need no processing |
| 01:05.29 | KaZeR | feedback in #navit please, thanks :) |
| 01:05.43 | KaZeR | Kensan, huge thanks for your help. it works :) |
| 01:07.32 | Kensan | raster: disabled portmap |
| 01:07.50 | raster | Kensan: portmap |
| 01:07.51 | raster | aaah |
| 01:07.56 | raster | oh thats used for nfs stuff |
| 01:07.57 | raster | yes |
| 01:08.04 | raster | i remember theer being some nfs setup |
| 01:08.06 | raster | we dont NEED that |
| 01:08.10 | raster | optional extra for hyper-nerds |
| 01:08.14 | Kensan | raster: yes but its not active by default |
| 01:08.27 | Kensan | "its" need not be |
| 01:08.35 | Kensan | its it is |
| 01:08.37 | Kensan | argh |
| 01:09.06 | Kensan | calls his english teacher to apologize |
| 01:10.11 | phobie | raster: funny, managed to fix it elsewhere but not on your image :) |
| 01:10.40 | Kensan | KaZeR: cool, glad I could help :) |
| 01:11.12 | raster | phobie: fix what? |
| 01:11.19 | Kensan | raster: ldconfig as already mentioned |
| 01:11.45 | Kensan | raster: avahi - don't think it's used currently |
| 01:11.46 | raster | Kensan: yeah. noted that |
| 01:11.56 | techiem2-r | ooh spiffy - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812339170 |
| 01:12.02 | mwester | avahi and hal -- overkill for what we need. |
| 01:12.32 | *** join/#openmoko Tetracomm (n=nicholas@72.252.29.2) |
| 01:12.37 | raster | mwester: the problem is hal is kind of necessary for things like connman |
| 01:12.41 | raster | or network manger |
| 01:12.52 | Tetracomm | Hello. |
| 01:12.55 | Kensan | raster: what I was about to do: udevsynthesize/udev -> mdev or unzip /dev-tarball on boot |
| 01:12.56 | raster | for removable sotrage handling in the case of external flash drives (Thumbdrives) |
| 01:12.58 | Tetracomm | When was the first OpenMoko phone released? |
| 01:13.00 | mwester | :) Need to do a 'tinyhal" |
| 01:13.02 | phobie | raster: that HOME=/ issue we talked about. |
| 01:13.04 | raster | and in the fuiture if u have externally accessible sd slots |
| 01:13.14 | raster | as really anything doign that stuff goes thru hal these days |
| 01:13.26 | raster | phobie: its not fixed in upsteram oe |
| 01:13.34 | raster | or wasnt the last git-fetch/rebase i did |
| 01:13.42 | raster | and hasnt been for a LONG time |
| 01:14.04 | mwester | Actually, the hal stuff isn't so bad if it can be deferred int eh startup, along with all the multi-media stuff and the SD card, etc... |
| 01:14.05 | phobie | ok it was fixed "somewhere" TM |
| 01:14.42 | raster | missing this like: |
| 01:14.43 | raster | line: |
| 01:14.46 | raster | ./xserver-nodm-init/xserver-nodm: [ -z $LOGNAME ] && export LOGNAME=root && export HOME=/home/root |
| 01:14.58 | raster | grep -r home/root . |
| 01:14.58 | raster | ./xserver-kdrive-common/Xinit:export HOME=/home/root |
| 01:15.03 | raster | (in OE) |
| 01:15.03 | phobie | Tetracomm: you have to look at the mailinglists if none here knows... |
| 01:15.08 | raster | but in Om's tree: |
| 01:15.14 | raster | grep -r home/root . |
| 01:15.14 | raster | ./xserver-kdrive-common/Xinit:export HOME=/home/root |
| 01:15.14 | raster | ./xserver-nodm-init/xserver-nodm: [ -z $LOGNAME ] && export LOGNAME=root && export HOME=/home/root |
| 01:15.15 | Tetracomm | :( |
| 01:15.26 | raster | i know where it was fixed in om |
| 01:15.31 | raster | and why :) |
| 01:15.43 | Kensan | Tetracomm: released as in "anybody" could buy it? |
| 01:15.43 | mwester | But it's a secret? |
| 01:15.50 | raster | mwester: yeah. hald can be deferred until after ui is up |
| 01:15.52 | raster | mwester: i agree |
| 01:15.54 | Kensan | Tetracomm: that would be last june or so |
| 01:16.04 | Tetracomm | Ok. |
| 01:16.06 | raster | the ui SHOULD be smart enough to wait for hal to come up anyway |
| 01:16.10 | raster | if it isnt already up |
| 01:16.14 | mwester | Yep. |
| 01:16.14 | Kensan | Tetracomm: maybe you find something in the wiki |
| 01:16.16 | raster | eithe rkeep olling for it every few seconds |
| 01:16.27 | raster | or listen for dbus events for new service owners |
| 01:16.30 | Kensan | Tetracomm: it was GTA01Bv4 |
| 01:16.34 | Tetracomm | Jul 9 2007: OpenMoko goes live, is that it? |
| 01:16.53 | Kensan | mwester: do you need a signed-off patch or does a simple git-diff patch do? |
| 01:17.28 | Kensan | Tetracomm: I am not sure. Try the announce ml I am sure there was an announcement mail from sean ;) |
| 01:17.30 | Tetracomm | What do they mean by that? "OpenMoko goes Live |
| 01:17.36 | Tetracomm | Ok. |
| 01:17.37 | mwester | Kensan: simple patch is ideal, I'll be globbing them up into a set of rolled-up commits anyway (else I'll be commiting the same file every few minutes here!) |
| 01:18.09 | Kensan | Tetracomm: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-July/000017.html |
| 01:18.12 | Kensan | Tetracomm: there you go |
| 01:18.38 | Tetracomm | Thank you. |
| 01:18.40 | raster | Kensan: ooh another thing that can be improved |
| 01:18.50 | raster | rename init scritps to initscript.sh |
| 01:18.57 | raster | rc will source them instead of execcing hem |
| 01:19.33 | Kensan | raster: I did remove some shell stuff |
| 01:20.12 | Kensan | I didn't actually keep track because I was just toying around at the time. I wanted to take a closer look this week but alas I got the flue :( |
| 01:20.57 | raster | damn flu |
| 01:21.05 | raster | blame zee grmans jaaa! |
| 01:21.12 | Kensan | raster: haha |
| 01:21.23 | Kensan | mwester: first one sent your way ;) |
| 01:21.37 | Kensan | raster: got me pretty good this time :( |
| 01:21.51 | sicu | techiem2-r: cool, but would've been ideal if it could at least provide 1000mA, not limited to 150-500mA :/ |
| 01:21.54 | Kensan | raster: well I'll have some time over the weekend. |
| 01:22.17 | techiem2-r | yeah...there are some car only ones that do 1A |
| 01:22.37 | mwester | has a belkin one that claims to do an amp |
| 01:22.59 | raster | Kensan: i'll nuke some of these anyway |
| 01:23.02 | raster | as they are silly |
| 01:23.04 | raster | like ldconfig |
| 01:23.06 | mwester | wonders if it has a resister to identify it, and if so, what value? |
| 01:23.09 | raster | thats a bit meaty lump of boot there |
| 01:23.30 | sicu | mwester: where'd you get it? |
| 01:24.02 | Kensan | raster: I guess networking can be postponed after all else is up |
| 01:24.21 | techiem2-r | and does it do wall and car? |
| 01:24.24 | techiem2-r | hehe |
| 01:24.24 | sicu | i have a mini usb one that does 2A |
| 01:24.31 | mwester | I didn't -- one of my kids came home with it from some school trip; they killed their ipod batteries and picked it up somewhere on the journey. |
| 01:24.39 | sicu | mine only does car though :/ |
| 01:25.46 | techiem2-r | and wouldn't 2A harm the FR? |
| 01:25.46 | techiem2-r | hehe |
| 01:25.46 | techiem2-r | or does the FR limit it's own draw? |
| 01:25.50 | mwester | FR is very careful. |
| 01:25.55 | mwester | too careful, IMO ;) |
| 01:26.02 | techiem2-r | lol |
| 01:26.18 | mwester | it will starve itself to death on a USB charger. |
| 01:26.27 | raster | Kensan: that could be |
| 01:26.34 | techiem2-r | ah yes, that default to 100mA |
| 01:26.35 | techiem2-r | lol |
| 01:26.38 | raster | though for us - and debuggign the earlier net is up, the better |
| 01:27.19 | Kensan | raster: yes, I was thinking about the "later" steps :) |
| 01:28.54 | Kensan | raster: same goes for console/kernel boot messages. |
| 01:29.20 | sicu | mwester: you're sure the FR wouldn't draw too much with 2A available to it ? |
| 01:29.43 | sicu | havn't actually tried mine yet |
| 01:30.11 | raster | Kensan: those are less likely to be needed imho |
| 01:30.13 | raster | :) |
| 01:30.35 | mwester | sicu: Yep, positive -- it'll max out at 1A |
| 01:30.52 | Tetracomm | The website should have a features page for each phone. |
| 01:30.53 | Kensan | raster: the motto is: if you want the kernel boot message you should know how to get them via console ;) |
| 01:31.54 | mwester | blindfolds Kensan, hands him a wrench, and tells him to go find out what's wrong with his automobile. |
| 01:32.07 | Kensan | raster: bluetooth could be postponed too |
| 01:32.12 | techiem2-r | hehe |
| 01:32.21 | raster | bt - definitely |
| 01:32.35 | raster | might agree on usbnet/net actually |
| 01:32.44 | Kensan | runs after mwester with the wrench and trips over his FR |
| 01:32.45 | mwester | agrees about bt on startup, but not on resume. |
| 01:33.05 | raster | so movr xserver-nodm |
| 01:33.16 | raster | down to S50 |
| 01:33.22 | raster | hm |
| 01:33.24 | raster | maybe S40 |
| 01:33.28 | mwester | Oh - you guys are doing startup only? |
| 01:33.29 | mwester | cool. |
| 01:33.45 | raster | dropbear can move off to S60 |
| 01:33.52 | raster | as thats useless until usbgadget and network is up |
| 01:34.15 | raster | eyeah |
| 01:34.16 | raster | just boot |
| 01:34.20 | raster | :) |
| 01:34.57 | sicu | mwester: thx, good to know. found a good writeup about it: http://quickstart.openmoko.org/#chargerdetection =] |
| 01:36.10 | Kensan | raster: bootmisc.sh : Update motd |
| 01:36.41 | Kensan | raster: can be removed |
| 01:37.10 | raster | yeah |
| 01:37.13 | raster | motd - useless |
| 01:37.27 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:37.30 | raster | thast should go too |
| 01:38.19 | raster | no messing with the console forcibly |
| 01:38.19 | Tetracomm | I think that is VERY VERY important, ok? |
| 01:38.19 | raster | that screws ant bootsplash trying to be slick |
| 01:38.19 | Tetracomm | To put a features list on the openmoko website. |
| 01:38.19 | Tetracomm | Please... |
| 01:38.19 | Tetracomm | I didn't see anything when I went there. |
| 01:38.19 | raster | its not needed |
| 01:38.23 | Kensan | raster: the if in "alignment" can be simplified |
| 01:38.28 | raster | oh wait |
| 01:38.33 | raster | talking about boot? |
| 01:38.35 | raster | ot website? |
| 01:38.47 | Tetracomm | Website. |
| 01:38.49 | raster | Kensan: yeah a bit ugly |
| 01:38.53 | raster | te aah' |
| 01:38.58 | raster | never mind then |
| 01:39.50 | Kensan | raster: well my shell-foo is not all that good but I think banner can also be simplified |
| 01:40.30 | raster | actually motd isnt used |
| 01:40.33 | raster | its "no" in config |
| 01:40.43 | Kensan | raster: sysfs is doing a grep on /proc/filesystems |
| 01:40.48 | raster | oh wait |
| 01:40.48 | Kensan | raster: ah k |
| 01:40.49 | raster | never mind |
| 01:40.52 | raster | log is reverse |
| 01:40.56 | raster | it is used |
| 01:41.00 | raster | yes |
| 01:41.04 | raster | uname and sed running is silly |
| 01:41.46 | raster | should remove the banner |
| 01:41.50 | raster | consoel shoudl be empty |
| 01:41.57 | raster | blank - no banners, text etc. |
| 01:42.04 | raster | if i want stuff in console |
| 01:42.15 | raster | i'll set console in the uboot kernel b oot params |
| 01:42.22 | raster | so it runs the nromal console there |
| 01:42.32 | Kensan | raster: ramdisk is also grepping |
| 01:42.52 | mwester | waits for them to get to volatiles... |
| 01:43.03 | Kensan | mwester: feel free to chip in :) |
| 01:43.52 | Dave | :) |
| 01:44.24 | mwester | "too many cooks" |
| 01:44.43 | mwester | I'll stick to the SD card stuff |
| 01:44.46 | mwester | for the moment |
| 01:44.48 | raster | hmm |
| 01:45.12 | Kensan | mwester: I didn't take you for the quiet type ;) |
| 01:45.42 | raster | mwester: just making notes |
| 01:45.46 | mwester | No, but once in a while it's fun to sit at the table and watch the cooks furiously create something :) |
| 01:45.51 | raster | waiting for git to finsih cloning |
| 01:46.22 | Kensan | mwester: hehe I am not furious, actually I am pretty sleepy |
| 01:46.46 | Kensan | package 3350 something |
| 01:46.58 | Kensan | I knew 4 cores are not enough *sigh* |
| 01:47.41 | Kensan | raster: dropbear can be pushed back also. Goes along with networking ;) |
| 01:47.56 | raster | Kensan: yes |
| 01:48.40 | mwester | wants support for an env var (set by init via boot command line) to pull network and dropbear startup early in boot process... |
| 01:50.32 | Kensan | mwester: yeah, never forget the god mode ;) |
| 01:50.35 | raster | mwester: u can just rename the SXXX scripts |
| 01:50.41 | Kensan | the env var will be "idkfa" |
| 01:50.42 | raster | to re-order them for tyourself for hacking |
| 01:50.50 | raster | note |
| 01:50.59 | raster | focusing on how to make boto fast for a target "prodyct" |
| 01:51.10 | raster | ie get ui up as fast as possible for users as thats what the ultimate aim is |
| 01:51.22 | Kensan | raster: you've got mail ;) |
| 01:51.46 | raster | aaah |
| 01:51.47 | raster | :) |
| 01:51.54 | Kensan | package 3800 |
| 01:52.09 | mwester | But Mr. raster! The whole point is so that one can get into the system to FIX it if something in the boot process causes it to hang or crash! So renaming the S files is not a good solution... |
| 01:52.40 | sicu | Tetracomm: what do you mean by feature list ? |
| 01:53.02 | raster | mwester: ooh u want to export the env var from uboot? |
| 01:53.06 | Kensan | mwester: well we could do a shell script that you can pass as init which only brings up networking and ssh |
| 01:53.07 | SpeedEvil | As long as you can reboot with a key held down and drop out of fastboot mode... |
| 01:53.55 | mwester | That reminds me of a demo I attended back when I worked for Sun Microsystems -- mainframe IT guy watching the demo, the workstation panicked and crashed, the guy doing the demo watched the panic on the screen, then turned to the IT guy and said "I bet you've never had your mainframe reboot this fast before." .... nice try, but no cigar! |
| 01:54.43 | Tetracomm | sicu: A list of the phone's features. |
| 01:54.50 | mwester | raster: any tokens on the command line not claimed by the kernel are passed through as env vars to init. |
| 01:55.22 | raster | mwester: i know :) thats why i was checking that was ytour intent |
| 01:55.30 | mwester | So if you add "bootmode=phone" to the kernel boot line, that will be found in the envronment for the boot scripts to use. |
| 01:55.34 | raster | ie set boot command to "SAFEBOOT=yes |
| 01:55.37 | raster | or something |
| 01:55.41 | raster | (maybe something shorter |
| 01:55.47 | raster | like HACKER=yes |
| 01:55.50 | raster | :) |
| 01:56.23 | mwester | Yep. If we have some of the scripts check, the user can set a preferred boot profile, and speed, or reorder, things to their needs. But that's a future thing, I expect. |
| 01:56.51 | raster | yeah |
| 01:56.54 | raster | makes sense |
| 01:56.56 | raster | i agree |
| 01:57.05 | raster | so u basically have a resume mode for userspace/boot |
| 01:57.08 | raster | i woudl do this |
| 01:57.14 | raster | RESCUE=yes |
| 01:57.17 | raster | on cmd-line |
| 01:57.31 | raster | if RESCUE is set to yes in init.d/rc |
| 01:57.37 | raster | then run a special fallback boot |
| 01:57.44 | raster | that only brings up usb gagdte |
| 01:57.47 | raster | networkign ande dropbear |
| 01:57.49 | raster | thats it |
| 01:57.50 | raster | nothing else |
| 01:57.51 | SpeedEvil | uboot can set kernel environs? |
| 01:57.53 | raster | or |
| 01:57.58 | raster | it just runs these first |
| 01:58.02 | raster | then continues with boot |
| 01:58.23 | SpeedEvil | net and dropbear in a teeny initroot or something is handy |
| 01:58.35 | Kensan | yeah |
| 01:58.36 | raster | SpeedEvil: that is another matter entirely |
| 01:58.36 | SpeedEvil | Used that before. |
| 01:58.41 | raster | a whoel sepearte initrd for that |
| 01:58.48 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 01:58.48 | raster | there are levels of safety |
| 01:58.51 | raster | how many do u really want? |
| 01:58.51 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 01:58.55 | SpeedEvil | 844. |
| 01:58.55 | raster | sure |
| 01:58.59 | raster | initrd would do it too |
| 01:58.59 | SpeedEvil | Or maybe 843. |
| 01:59.05 | raster | but really we need to be sane |
| 01:59.09 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 01:59.09 | raster | i think mwester is right |
| 01:59.29 | raster | a way to say "oh fuck my boot is fucked and usbnet doenst come up.. i'ms screwed without a debug board" |
| 01:59.35 | Kensan | raster: usb-net dropbear first and then carry on, that sounds good |
| 01:59.37 | SpeedEvil | As long as it's got a 'safe' mode of some supid form. |
| 01:59.38 | raster | and fix it |
| 01:59.50 | raster | of course that'd be for advanced users |
| 01:59.58 | raster | who are fuckign with their boots |
| 01:59.59 | SpeedEvil | raster: maybe. |
| 02:00.01 | Kensan | with a "press CTRL-C to abort" |
| 02:00.06 | Kensan | *muahaha* |
| 02:00.07 | Kensan | scnr |
| 02:00.09 | raster | average users will never use it |
| 02:00.15 | sicu | Tetracomm: the wiki can be a bit messy, but mostly everything is buried in there somewhere |
| 02:00.15 | raster | as they will have no idea how to get a serial console |
| 02:00.19 | sicu | Tetracomm: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison |
| 02:00.19 | raster | and be scared of typing in stuff |
| 02:00.21 | SpeedEvil | raster: 'when you get your freerunner, run this program to make a rescue microsd'. |
| 02:00.31 | raster | so for them- just use the 'gui reflash util" |
| 02:00.41 | raster | (whihc doesnt exist, but should) |
| 02:00.53 | techiem2-r | emails ezgear to ask for specs on their 2 port car/wall charger |
| 02:00.56 | raster | SpeedEvil: no need |
| 02:01.09 | raster | just download a "sane known released flash image"" |
| 02:01.13 | raster | and reflahs from desktop |
| 02:01.25 | raster | reflash |
| 02:01.26 | SpeedEvil | desktop can be far away. |
| 02:01.29 | raster | coudl be |
| 02:01.43 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: hm but how are you accessing the phone then? |
| 02:01.55 | raster | but u shouldnt be messing with shit at that level if u are far away |
| 02:01.55 | raster | seriously |
| 02:02.01 | Kensan | you are doing this because you want to ssh in... |
| 02:02.03 | raster | if u are far away - dont mess with stuff that will/could make your device not boot |
| 02:02.08 | SpeedEvil | I was assuming a 'OMG, my phone ate itself' problem. |
| 02:02.34 | raster | SpeedEvil: i think the reflahs-from-desktop is an adequate solution for the "my phone ate itself" |
| 02:02.34 | *** join/#openmoko ipa (n=Administ@219-81-237-6.dynamic.tfn.net.tw) |
| 02:02.35 | SpeedEvil | So a thing on SD which grabs a image of the flash, and rewrites it with a good image, ... |
| 02:02.41 | SpeedEvil | true. |
| 02:02.46 | SpeedEvil | It's pretty irreleveant. |
| 02:02.55 | raster | we are solving the "now it doesnt boot and i would need to buy a dbeug board to get a serial console to figure ths out.. or reflash": |
| 02:02.57 | SpeedEvil | There are vastly more important stuff to wotrk on. |
| 02:03.00 | raster | and just bring up usbnet earlier |
| 02:03.00 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: that problem should not be solved at this level. |
| 02:03.15 | Kensan | imho |
| 02:03.18 | raster | thats simple enough to do |
| 02:03.23 | *** join/#openmoko jeffszusz (n=jeffsz@d57-97-215.home.cgocable.net) |
| 02:03.26 | SpeedEvil | raster: doesn't dfu-util read flash images too? |
| 02:03.32 | raster | and more common that the "it ate itself and i have no mechanism to reflahs from a dekstop/laptop" |
| 02:03.35 | SpeedEvil | raster: just pull it off and mount it |
| 02:03.37 | raster | SpeedEvil: yes |
| 02:03.46 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: you can download all the partitions from the phone afaik |
| 02:03.51 | mwester | agrees with SpeedEvil's thinking on the topic -- a rescue mode using nothing but an SD card reader/writer should be available for when all else fails. |
| 02:03.52 | raster | SpeedEvil: but u cant run thigns to see what they are doing |
| 02:03.53 | raster | :) |
| 02:03.55 | SpeedEvil | Though admittedly, ARM binary screws that. |
| 02:03.56 | raster | well u can.. qemu |
| 02:03.59 | raster | which isnt a gta02 anyway |
| 02:04.01 | raster | so u miss hardware |
| 02:04.39 | raster | i'm just worried about speeding up boot |
| 02:04.57 | SpeedEvil | Fix suspend/resume, then we only need to do it once! |
| 02:04.58 | raster | and a "save flash and have it resored auto by uboot" is an entirely separate topic |
| 02:04.59 | raster | :) |
| 02:05.02 | Kensan | mwester: maybe a "backup kernel+initrd" for rescue tasks? |
| 02:05.11 | raster | while making boto fast - if that makes usbnet take longer or less likely to be reliable |
| 02:05.16 | SpeedEvil | ah. |
| 02:05.23 | raster | mwester: is right in wanting a mode to make it more reliable again |
| 02:05.28 | SpeedEvil | Sorry, I came in in teh middle, and should have backscrolled, sorry. |
| 02:05.37 | raster | as we make usbnet come up much later in favor oof a faster boot to gui |
| 02:06.00 | SpeedEvil | commits sudoko. |
| 02:06.15 | raster | if usbnet doesnt come up then |
| 02:06.16 | Kensan | hands SpeedEvil some digits |
| 02:06.32 | raster | (u still need a desktop and usb link to get to uboot to set that env.. or a uboot menu pre-configured) |
| 02:06.40 | raster | then u are in the "oh shit my image is fucked" land |
| 02:06.45 | SpeedEvil | uboot menu item works well. |
| 02:06.54 | raster | but that could happen right now - so no different to our current situation |
| 02:07.05 | Kensan | raster: the respective hw-modules for bluetooth and wlan should also be loaded just before they are needed. |
| 02:07.39 | Kensan | let's no try to solve multiple different issues at once. |
| 02:07.56 | raster | Kensan: agreed |
| 02:08.05 | raster | tho as such can move them for now just to after x startuo |
| 02:08.07 | raster | tho the problem is |
| 02:08.13 | raster | they will slow down x as they start in the bg |
| 02:08.20 | raster | so as such yes |
| 02:08.28 | raster | they shoudl be set up only on demand |
| 02:08.45 | SpeedEvil | Will the user always command them to come up? |
| 02:08.48 | Kensan | raster: does upstart do this? |
| 02:08.52 | SpeedEvil | If so, that'd normally be after boot? |
| 02:09.15 | SpeedEvil | When there is less disk use pressure. |
| 02:09.22 | *** join/#openmoko freelock_ (n=john@logan.freelock.com) |
| 02:09.33 | raster | Kensan: yes |
| 02:09.35 | Kensan | maybe for the bt and wifi the user would need to activate? |
| 02:09.40 | raster | upstarte basically paralellises |
| 02:09.43 | raster | the proboem is |
| 02:09.49 | *** join/#openmoko ezekiel-v3 (n=ezekiel@h-67-100-144-50.nycmny83.covad.net) |
| 02:09.53 | raster | then u have multipel processes hammering the cpu for context switches |
| 02:09.56 | raster | or IO from the same device |
| 02:09.57 | raster | flash |
| 02:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@116.84-49-131.nextgentel.com) |
| 02:10.02 | Kensan | raster: I mean does upstart also allow for dynamic modprobing of hardware etc |
| 02:10.03 | raster | whihc is the limiting bottleneck anyway |
| 02:10.09 | raster | so it doesn thelp much as harald found out |
| 02:10.18 | raster | if u are all stuck ion the same resource (IOP) |
| 02:10.26 | raster | simply reducingt io is the only thing to do |
| 02:10.30 | raster | ooh |
| 02:10.34 | raster | modprobing no |
| 02:10.37 | raster | thats not upstarts job |
| 02:10.43 | raster | its job it ONLY tro run initscripts |
| 02:10.43 | Kensan | raster: I was more thinking of upstart to do the "bring up resource" more dynamically |
| 02:10.44 | mwester | Kensan: yep, a backup/rescue kernel/initfs --- one very simple idea is that we have 4 MB for the kernel -- we can tuck a rescue kernel in the second half of that, that kernel/initrd needs only (for example) to boot, look for a VFAT SD card, scan it for a uImage.bin and/or roofs.jffs2, and flash those if found. |
| 02:10.46 | raster | but iot knows dependencies |
| 02:10.53 | raster | so srcips A depends on script B |
| 02:10.59 | raster | whcih depends on C |
| 02:11.04 | *** join/#openmoko SWAT (n=swat@ubuntu/member/swat) |
| 02:11.06 | raster | and so it runs those in order C,B, A |
| 02:11.19 | raster | but in parallel it can run X, Y because they dont depend on A, B or C |
| 02:11.33 | Kensan | mwester: the initrd could contain multiple actions which could be displayed like the uboot menu. save userdata to sd for example |
| 02:11.55 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@adsl-99-2-134-30.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:11.56 | mwester | That too -- that's more ambitious, but is more compatible with Qi |
| 02:12.03 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: if you've already got uboot as a menu system, why do two? |
| 02:12.14 | mwester | (and something I'm working on, as a matter of fact ;) |
| 02:12.15 | mwester | ) |
| 02:12.26 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: you can't access everything from uboot |
| 02:12.32 | mwester | SpeedEvil: You don't. We need to dump uboot. |
| 02:12.40 | raster | mwester: i would opt for just using the microsd for all "rescue" stuff |
| 02:12.42 | raster | personally |
| 02:12.42 | Kensan | mwester: o really :) |
| 02:12.44 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: no - I was meaning as a dumb menu. For smarter stuff, yeah. |
| 02:12.50 | raster | known good kernel on sd |
| 02:12.54 | raster | known good rootfs on sd |
| 02:13.14 | raster | after first boot of device userspace in a gui can ask u if u want to make a rescuesd |
| 02:13.21 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: well I was jsut expressing that I think a simple textbased menu is enough for rescue stuff. |
| 02:13.22 | raster | u can make a resue sd from tyour desktop too |
| 02:13.25 | raster | anywhere |
| 02:13.25 | Kensan | anyway back to boot |
| 02:13.42 | mwester | raster: Yeah, but that gets us into the "gotta have a linux system to write the filesystems" thing -- unless you do what was done for the Treo originally. |
| 02:13.46 | raster | as long as uboot supports a bootmenu of "reflahs from rescue sd" |
| 02:13.58 | raster | then u have the "all shit hit the fan and i have no pc in sight" solution |
| 02:14.01 | mwester | Which, btw, I have no problem doing for a rescue kernel. |
| 02:14.11 | raster | mwester: no no |
| 02:14.21 | Kensan | raster: I thought upstart can also react to dbus messages. it fits with the whole frameworkd dbus stuff to dynamically bring up hardware or put it back to sleep |
| 02:14.21 | raster | the sd is pre-prepared by userspace on fr |
| 02:14.23 | raster | or a desktop |
| 02:14.34 | raster | all uboot does is mount the fat fs on sd |
| 02:14.43 | raster | find specific known rescue images |
| 02:14.45 | mwester | Are you going to have the rescue sd with you on every trip you take, then? |
| 02:14.45 | raster | and flash them |
| 02:14.51 | phobie | when I try to make a screenshot, I am not fast enough to switch to the application I want to shot. How to prevent that? |
| 02:14.57 | raster | mwester: no - the built-in sd has it |
| 02:15.00 | SpeedEvil | mwester: tehre are neat little keychain microSD holders. |
| 02:15.03 | raster | if u dont make a resscue sd |
| 02:15.14 | raster | well - silyl you for saying "no i dont want a rescue image" |
| 02:15.19 | Kensan | mwester: I think there's enough space on the kernel partition ;) |
| 02:15.30 | raster | u'll need to get a pc and some internet to downlload/create one |
| 02:15.32 | Kensan | raster: focus were on the boot topic |
| 02:15.33 | Kensan | ;) |
| 02:15.38 | mwester | ponders the idea of a uboot option that creates a snapshot of the current flash onto a file on the SD card... |
| 02:16.01 | techiem2-r | mmm |
| 02:16.04 | raster | mwester: nay reast u'd want to do it from uboot and not userspace? |
| 02:16.18 | raster | err |
| 02:16.19 | raster | reason |
| 02:16.29 | mwester | .... because that's REALLY what you want, no? you don't want to reset your phone to a virgin image, if it toasts, you want to restore it from some sane point in time... |
| 02:16.41 | mwester | raster: files in use, and all that. |
| 02:16.47 | mwester | but could be worked around. |
| 02:16.49 | raster | mwester: yes yes1 |
| 02:16.50 | Kensan | mwester: yes but you can do that from the initramfs |
| 02:16.58 | raster | but the "make my current kernel + rootfs a rescue sd" |
| 02:17.01 | raster | is just a userspace util |
| 02:17.03 | raster | u run any time |
| 02:17.09 | raster | "backup now. my phone is working well" |
| 02:17.10 | sicu | phobie: i have the exact same problem :/ |
| 02:17.13 | phobie | raster: like this one http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/db1c385e6611782621ab61b4bba5c506.png |
| 02:17.14 | mwester | Ok, what I meant was a uboot menu option, I didn't say that uboot CODE would do it! |
| 02:17.26 | Kensan | hehe |
| 02:17.27 | phobie | there needs to be a timer |
| 02:17.28 | SpeedEvil | As a side-issue - what's the speed of the onboard flash? |
| 02:17.30 | raster | all the userspace process needs to do is sync |
| 02:17.43 | mwester | But I think raster is right -- we should be able to snapshot a running image reasonably well. |
| 02:17.46 | raster | kill -STOP all other processes except itself |
| 02:17.50 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: abysmal :( let's hope Harald comes through with the hw-ecc patches. |
| 02:17.52 | SpeedEvil | mwester: suspend |
| 02:17.53 | raster | or set the scheduler to realtime fifo |
| 02:17.55 | raster | write |
| 02:18.04 | raster | reset scheduler back to normal |
| 02:18.05 | raster | continue |
| 02:18.07 | mwester | Oooo -- hibernate |
| 02:18.11 | mwester | and snapshot that. |
| 02:18.21 | mwester | and then resume |
| 02:18.25 | raster | (depends if u want gui updates while saving the rescue - if u want gui then u'll need at least X also working) |
| 02:18.26 | SpeedEvil | Then you need to snapshot the FS too tho |
| 02:18.34 | mwester | Yep |
| 02:18.35 | raster | mwester: that'd also be an option |
| 02:18.46 | mwester | many possibilities |
| 02:18.56 | Kensan | these things could all be packed into a neat initramfs :) |
| 02:19.02 | mwester | Yep |
| 02:19.03 | raster | but i htink the "save my current rootfs/kernel/whgatevre now so i can get back to just this point" as a userspac eutil is a good idea |
| 02:19.16 | raster | if u really want to solve the "i just blew up my phone" problem |
| 02:19.24 | SpeedEvil | 'shutdown and save this image as known good' 'd be easy. |
| 02:19.56 | sicu | isn;t that what the 'neotool' does ... snapshot a running image? |
| 02:20.01 | Kensan | raster: back to boot stuff? |
| 02:20.03 | *** join/#openmoko esthar (n=esthar@student164-128.hampshire.edu) |
| 02:20.03 | raster | oho not a lot u can do excep thave the snap delayed more |
| 02:20.31 | mwester | sicu: Sort of -- it has some serious problems, not the least of which is that it requires a Linux host. |
| 02:20.49 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 02:20.53 | Kensan | raster: I think upstart is not just the replacement for init scripts bout it can dynamicall start & stop services in response to dbus message |
| 02:20.58 | raster | Kensan: ok ok :) |
| 02:21.08 | mwester | Can upstart help with managing the sequencing from resume? |
| 02:21.09 | raster | woo |
| 02:21.11 | raster | git back |
| 02:21.19 | Kensan | raster: hehe sorry for bullying |
| 02:21.37 | raster | git-fetch; git-rebase origin/master |
| 02:21.38 | raster | ok |
| 02:21.44 | raster | thats the update thing for git... right> |
| 02:21.48 | raster | just need to check |
| 02:21.53 | Kensan | mwester: not sure. I don't know upstart too well but it seems it is very flexible |
| 02:22.00 | Kensan | raster: you need a patch |
| 02:22.13 | Kensan | raster: you can to git pull |
| 02:22.28 | raster | sorry |
| 02:22.31 | raster | git-fetch; git-rebase origin |
| 02:22.43 | raster | Kensan: git-pull seems to make a dogs breakfast of things |
| 02:22.55 | Kensan | but that's what git pull does |
| 02:23.11 | raster | well it seems my patch files end up bizarre |
| 02:23.12 | Kensan | speaking of breakfast |
| 02:23.20 | Kensan | oh |
| 02:23.21 | Kensan | hm |
| 02:23.32 | raster | and what patch do i need? |
| 02:23.35 | raster | btw |
| 02:23.36 | raster | ? |
| 02:23.43 | Kensan | well pull does git rebase origin master |
| 02:23.50 | Kensan | it rebases your local master on the origin |
| 02:23.55 | Kensan | and only the master branch |
| 02:24.08 | Kensan | mwester: did you commit the hal patch to oe? |
| 02:24.39 | Kensan | raster: sent you the pacth |
| 02:25.10 | Kensan | raster: it applies to org.openembedded.dev/conf/checksum.ini |
| 02:25.23 | raster | ugh |
| 02:25.24 | raster | ok |
| 02:25.33 | raster | other git users say NOT to use git-pull |
| 02:25.37 | raster | so wtf do you use? |
| 02:25.48 | raster | despises git |
| 02:25.58 | raster | fecking shit fucks up all the time |
| 02:26.21 | Kensan | 0_o |
| 02:26.22 | BobOfDoom | doesn't git-pull merge, not rebase ;) |
| 02:26.30 | Kensan | BobOfDoom: yes |
| 02:26.37 | Kensan | my bad |
| 02:26.40 | raster | one person says git-pull |
| 02:26.42 | Kensan | hides |
| 02:26.49 | Tetracomm | Alright, sicu. |
| 02:26.50 | Tetracomm | Thank you. |
| 02:26.53 | raster | then another 2 say "dont do that thats bad - do git-fetch and git-rebase origin" |
| 02:26.58 | raster | then you say to sod git-pull |
| 02:27.08 | raster | can git just bloody make up tis midn as tyo what is "svn update" |
| 02:27.11 | raster | give me one |
| 02:27.15 | BobOfDoom | depends what you want to do |
| 02:27.17 | sicu | Tetracomm: np =] |
| 02:27.19 | raster | i just want to pull in updteram changes and merge them to my tree |
| 02:27.21 | raster | thats all |
| 02:27.22 | raster | simple |
| 02:27.22 | BobOfDoom | if you're trying to keep patches floating on top |
| 02:27.28 | BobOfDoom | then rebase |
| 02:27.33 | raster | i have my own patches |
| 02:27.40 | BobOfDoom | ah |
| 02:27.41 | raster | some of them make it upsteram along the way |
| 02:27.50 | BobOfDoom | so your tree has no local commits? |
| 02:27.53 | BobOfDoom | you just want to update? |
| 02:27.53 | Tetracomm | They need to put the features on the phone's page though. |
| 02:27.55 | raster | yes - it does |
| 02:27.57 | raster | local commits |
| 02:28.01 | raster | i have a nice patchset |
| 02:28.04 | BobOfDoom | ok |
| 02:28.09 | Kensan | raster: you should do the local commits on a branch |
| 02:28.09 | BobOfDoom | rebase then, to keep your patches on top |
| 02:28.11 | Kensan | not the master |
| 02:28.12 | raster | i export them with fromatpatch whenever i rebase |
| 02:28.17 | raster | and i publish that |
| 02:28.22 | raster | thats my way of "complyign with gpl" |
| 02:28.29 | raster | ie i offer my patches to all upsteram stuff |
| 02:28.36 | raster | Kensan: i do |
| 02:28.42 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:28.48 | raster | i have my raster branch i always live in |
| 02:28.57 | Kensan | when you do the git pull you should me on the master branch |
| 02:29.11 | Kensan | at least it works for me ok ... |
| 02:29.42 | Kensan | but rebase is probably more in sync with your workflow... |
| 02:29.50 | BobOfDoom | just avoids git pull and does fetch and rebase or merge seperately, depending on what I'm doing |
| 02:29.58 | BobOfDoom | if applying stuff to some upsteram, rebase is probably what you want |
| 02:30.02 | Kensan | it will keep your patches ontop of upstream |
| 02:31.52 | Kensan | damned it's 4:30 here |
| 02:33.41 | techiem2-r | lol |
| 02:35.27 | raster | is buys re-applying patches by hand thanks to git upsteram screwage |
| 02:35.49 | Kensan | :( |
| 02:36.17 | Kensan | Well I need to get some sleep |
| 02:37.04 | raster | nite man! |
| 02:37.15 | Kensan | raster: I will try to look into udev/mdev tomorrow... |
| 02:37.21 | raster | cool |
| 02:37.37 | raster | ooh bollockpoobumcrap |
| 02:37.46 | Kensan | raster: the one patch I sent you was the only one necessary to build illume again. |
| 02:37.47 | raster | how do i apply a git binary diff? |
| 02:38.02 | Kensan | git binary diff? |
| 02:38.05 | raster | git-apply |
| 02:38.08 | BobOfDoom | git apply |
| 02:38.13 | Kensan | git-am should swallo anything I think? |
| 02:39.00 | Kensan | anyway |
| 02:39.08 | Kensan | raster: catch you tomorrow/later |
| 02:39.19 | raster | grrr |
| 02:39.22 | raster | it doesnt apply |
| 02:39.29 | Kensan | raster: let's see where we get with this boot thingy. |
| 02:39.29 | raster | but it errors out at firs doesnt apply |
| 02:39.32 | raster | i know it conflicts |
| 02:39.35 | raster | i'll fix it later |
| 02:40.32 | Kensan | good luck |
| 02:40.35 | Kensan | later |
| 02:40.36 | raster | ooh wait |
| 02:40.38 | raster | it did |
| 02:40.42 | raster | it just silently added the files |
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| 02:57.35 | raster | ok |
| 02:57.42 | raster | home var fix now in local git commit list |
| 02:57.47 | raster | lets see |
| 02:57.51 | raster | who else is on the chopping block |
| 02:59.23 | techiem2-r | haha |
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| 03:00.01 | mwester | what git repo will you be committing this work to? |
| 03:00.23 | mwester | apologizes to his English teacher for ending a sentence a preposition with. |
| 03:00.41 | raster | mwester: local tree |
| 03:00.44 | raster | patch files go in svn |
| 03:00.57 | raster | as i dont have git commit access to oe |
| 03:01.08 | mwester | You should get that changed. |
| 03:01.08 | raster | if i had access i'd be putting all my stuff in there |
| 03:01.15 | raster | right now its just a pita |
| 03:01.22 | raster | if i did a patch every few months - it'd be fine |
| 03:01.27 | raster | but i seem to have a small forest of them |
| 03:01.40 | raster | hos do u list patches? |
| 03:01.50 | raster | how |
| 03:01.51 | raster | in git |
| 03:02.00 | raster | (withotu generating formatpatch stuff) |
| 03:02.01 | raster | ? |
| 03:02.03 | raster | without |
| 03:02.17 | mwester | I just use git diff |
| 03:02.27 | *** part/#openmoko kd8ikt (n=kd8ikt@we.trekbeyond.org) |
| 03:02.36 | raster | i already committed my patches (locally) |
| 03:02.49 | raster | i just want the list git-formatpatch produces |
| 03:03.05 | raster | ok |
| 03:03.08 | raster | currently 13 patches |
| 03:03.14 | linuxxr | writing better patches than the oner of the os,,,,,hmmmm,, sounds alot like the way slackware got its beginning |
| 03:03.19 | raster | *nuked a few from my last list) |
| 03:03.23 | mwester | But honestly -- I use a gui tool gitk is the ugliest GUI I've seen in a while, but does a nice job of letting you view the branching structure and the individual patches that make it up. |
| 03:03.52 | raster | i dont like complex branching |
| 03:03.55 | raster | :) |
| 03:04.00 | raster | i like the svn/cvs model |
| 03:04.04 | raster | u have the 1 true head |
| 03:04.09 | raster | u commit to it when your shiut works |
| 03:04.15 | mwester | I don't either -- I like short-lived branches, directly off the main trunk. |
| 03:04.17 | raster | or at leats its build/runtime disabeld and breaks nothing |
| 03:04.46 | raster | at least over tiem in e development it has resulted in a head that is incredibly solid |
| 03:04.54 | raster | as u have to always sync with changes |
| 03:05.04 | raster | u cant run off into your own branch world for ages and ignroe the mainline |
| 03:05.16 | raster | and then when u come back find all the stuff that doesnt patch/work etc. anymore |
| 03:05.33 | raster | also u tend to be more careful |
| 03:05.39 | mwester | or worse, just merge your long-lived branch into the mainline without checking and break everything. |
| 03:05.45 | raster | you use compile and runtime ways of "having a branch" |
| 03:05.52 | raster | ie configure --enable-my-crap |
| 03:05.53 | raster | or |
| 03:05.59 | raster | myapp -enable-my-thing |
| 03:06.19 | raster | so int he end your playing is much mroe easily tested by people |
| 03:06.31 | raster | results in better quality as u get test results early and often |
| 03:06.42 | raster | but thats me :) |
| 03:06.47 | raster | i like that way of doing stuff |
| 03:06.53 | raster | anyway |
| 03:06.59 | raster | i probably shoudl get committ access |
| 03:07.15 | raster | i think i'm the only one who is maintainign or fixing the palmt650 stuff in oe |
| 03:07.21 | raster | as such the krenl doesnt build at all without my fixes |
| 03:07.23 | mwester | Yeah, just ask mickey or one of the other OE core devs, I expect. |
| 03:07.25 | raster | :) |
| 03:07.29 | raster | yeah |
| 03:07.30 | raster | i should |
| 03:07.33 | raster | but for now... |
| 03:07.38 | raster | back to adding to my patch farm |
| 03:07.43 | mwester | I can commit stuff for you (and happily will do so), but that's not ideal. |
| 03:07.52 | raster | mwester: yeah - its not |
| 03:07.58 | raster | mickey knows of my patch fark |
| 03:08.00 | raster | farm |
| 03:08.04 | raster | he's sucked some patches from it |
| 03:08.10 | raster | but others remain untouched |
| 03:10.55 | raster | hgmm |
| 03:10.57 | raster | do we need avahi |
| 03:10.59 | raster | yes or no? |
| 03:14.46 | techiem2-r | no? |
| 03:14.57 | techiem2-r | *shrug* |
| 03:15.15 | mwester | wonders what it does for us? |
| 03:15.42 | Kensan | avahi does the zeroconf stuff |
| 03:15.56 | Kensan | can't sleep |
| 03:16.09 | techiem2-r | yeah, it applies the default ip range when dhcp can't get an addy right? |
| 03:16.27 | *** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=matic@BSN-95-238-123.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 03:16.34 | mwester | hmm... so it's basically useful for nothing much. the wifi doesn't really work, and there's only one system on the other end when it's plugged into USB. |
| 03:16.53 | mwester | Sounds to me like that's something that can be deferred until the user decides they actually want it. |
| 03:17.01 | mwester | *if* they ever want it. |
| 03:17.08 | Kensan | mwester: let me quote the webiste: "Avahi is a system which facilitates service discovery on a local network. This means that you can plug your laptop or computer into a network and instantly be able to view other people who you can chat with, find printers to print to or find files being shared." |
| 03:17.12 | techiem2-r | yeah...I don't care if my wifi is on 169.whatever or whatever it is when it can't connect |
| 03:17.17 | Kensan | so no, I don't think we need it |
| 03:17.20 | Kensan | :) |
| 03:17.42 | mwester | hehe! An act of optimism must have put it in there to begin with. |
| 03:17.48 | techiem2-r | lol |
| 03:17.59 | Kensan | find printers |
| 03:18.10 | mwester | Yeah, lets run cups on the phone too! |
| 03:18.15 | techiem2-r | lol |
| 03:18.27 | techiem2-r | maybe in debian... |
| 03:18.27 | techiem2-r | lol |
| 03:18.55 | raster | i just moved it off until much later in boot\ |
| 03:19.02 | mwester | Well, let's make sure we have something worth printing then -- opkg install openoffice |
| 03:19.03 | raster | just was pondering if we want to iunstall it at all |
| 03:19.17 | mwester | raster: I would say let's pull it out. |
| 03:19.25 | mwester | I bet nobody notices. |
| 03:19.26 | raster | ugh |
| 03:19.31 | raster | need to find the thing that sucks it in |
| 03:19.36 | techiem2-r | ooo on the neo....*shudder* |
| 03:19.36 | linuxxr | yea it would bee too cool to print an invoice using a nearby printer standing in the office waiting to get paid |
| 03:20.24 | Kensan | raster: maybe you just want to deactivate? |
| 03:20.48 | Kensan | it's hooked to dbus so it's bound to happen that somebody will find out about it... |
| 03:21.46 | *** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 03:22.34 | mwester | Reading the docs, I can't imagine how they'd know it's gone -- it doesn't work on point-to-point links, so it's only useful on wifi - and that doesn't really work yet at all. |
| 03:22.49 | raster | ok |
| 03:22.51 | raster | rcS.d |
| 03:22.53 | mwester | So avahi is an utter and total waste of valuable flash space on the GTA01. |
| 03:22.57 | raster | hmm |
| 03:22.58 | techiem2-r | and getting a default IP on wifi when it can't connect is kinda pointless.... |
| 03:22.59 | raster | actually |
| 03:23.06 | raster | worry about that... later |
| 03:23.07 | raster | fgirs |
| 03:23.08 | raster | rebuild image |
| 03:23.20 | mwester | makes a note of another useless bit of bloat to get removed from his rather-stuffed neo :) |
| 03:23.45 | mwester | techiem2-r: the default IP is handled by dhcpcd -- different process. |
| 03:24.01 | techiem2-r | really? I thought avahi handled that when dhcp couldn't get an addy |
| 03:24.04 | techiem2-r | guess not |
| 03:24.04 | techiem2-r | lol |
| 03:24.24 | mwester | I can't find ANYTHING in the docs for avahi that give me any idea of what could possibly be using it on the current Om images. Seriously. |
| 03:24.56 | raster | i suspect its ./angstrom/angstrom-zeroconf-audio.bb |
| 03:24.57 | Kensan | mwester: nothing does. |
| 03:25.13 | raster | hmm |
| 03:25.15 | Kensan | raster: might be that. |
| 03:25.15 | raster | ... |
| 03:25.20 | raster | maybe not |
| 03:25.25 | Kensan | raster: let me check the depends.dot |
| 03:25.26 | raster | only sdr-im,age abd beagleboard |
| 03:25.39 | Kensan | raster: ah right, still converting to png... |
| 03:26.26 | raster | ./packages/pulseaudio/pulseaudio.inc |
| 03:26.33 | Kensan | oh |
| 03:26.34 | raster | hmm |
| 03:26.36 | Kensan | bummer |
| 03:27.00 | techiem2-r | oh right...pulse uses avahi |
| 03:27.02 | mwester | I didn't think Om images were still using pusleasuio |
| 03:27.06 | techiem2-r | but...2008.x doesn't use pulse |
| 03:27.08 | techiem2-r | hehe |
| 03:27.10 | Kensan | pulseaudio uses it so you can seamlessly stream audio to other avahi/pulseaudio devices in the local network |
| 03:27.15 | mwester | hehe! |
| 03:27.25 | raster | no |
| 03:27.26 | techiem2-r | yeah...which is pretty cool if you can get it working |
| 03:27.29 | raster | i dotn have pulseaudio installed |
| 03:27.30 | raster | grrr |
| 03:27.53 | techiem2-r | 2007.2 used pulse |
| 03:27.54 | techiem2-r | hehe |
| 03:27.57 | raster | ./conf/distro/angstrom-2008.1.conf |
| 03:27.59 | mwester | I think that avahi and pulseaudio is one of those things that can be re-investigated when the device boots and works properly. :) |
| 03:27.59 | raster | aja! |
| 03:28.18 | techiem2-r | and when they figure out how to let pulse work without killing the cpu |
| 03:28.19 | techiem2-r | lol |
| 03:28.19 | Kensan | mwester: totaly agree |
| 03:28.53 | Kensan | mwester: it's right there before "printing" |
| 03:28.53 | raster | DISTRO_EXTRA_RRECOMMENDS += " \ |
| 03:29.14 | Kensan | raster: chop away |
| 03:30.10 | raster | angstrom-2007-for-openmoko.inc |
| 03:30.15 | raster | culprit |
| 03:30.18 | raster | found it |
| 03:30.20 | raster | chop chop |
| 03:30.27 | raster | hmm |
| 03:30.34 | raster | do we need an openssh-sfpt server? |
| 03:30.38 | raster | if we have dropbear |
| 03:30.39 | raster | really? |
| 03:30.43 | Kensan | lol |
| 03:30.48 | raster | openssh-sftp-server |
| 03:31.01 | raster | someone rescue that one from the chop too |
| 03:31.16 | raster | is about to chop |
| 03:31.17 | Kensan | hands raster a Katana |
| 03:31.39 | Kensan | everybody is doing scp anyways |
| 03:31.53 | Kensan | some people are using nfs but that's a whole other gang |
| 03:32.36 | Docscrutinizer2 | fuse & sshfs |
| 03:32.49 | mwester | that's better. :) |
| 03:32.53 | techiem2-r | mmm |
| 03:33.40 | techiem2-r | wish I could do sshfs FROM my FR though |
| 03:33.41 | techiem2-r | hehe |
| 03:34.04 | *** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=mikici@92.36.172.164) |
| 03:35.17 | Kensan | ok 2nd time. off to bed, for real |
| 03:35.34 | techiem2-r | haha |
| 03:36.04 | Kensan | raster: will ping when I am back. |
| 03:36.15 | milos_ | !logs |
| 03:36.17 | cdbot2 | Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: |
| 03:36.18 | cdbot2 | http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko |
| 03:36.18 | cdbot2 | Live-logs are available at |
| 03:36.20 | cdbot2 | http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog |
| 03:36.21 | cdbot2 | See ?? help-logs for usage instructions |
| 03:36.30 | Kensan | have fun choping away |
| 03:36.55 | raster | opk |
| 03:36.59 | raster | full os build roaring along |
| 03:37.19 | raster | 19 bloody patches |
| 03:37.59 | raster | and i still need to now add eina as a package |
| 03:38.02 | raster | and update efl for deps |
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| 03:49.32 | sicu | yeh, eina caused me some trouble when i was installing a couple of days ago |
| 03:49.43 | raster | i havent even updated my tree |
| 03:49.47 | raster | but eina came in this week |
| 03:50.22 | sicu | so it was only just resently moved from proto then ? |
| 03:50.34 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5f59b.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 03:51.27 | sicu | meant for desktop, not FR =] |
| 03:52.35 | sicu | btw raster, the some of the latest pics on scap are from SHR |
| 03:52.53 | sicu | seem to remember you asking ainulindale about images |
| 03:53.23 | raster | ewww |
| 03:53.25 | raster | most ugly |
| 03:53.57 | Docscrutinizer2 | stupid maemo-xchat replaces intercapitalized "S" of DocScrutinizer - grrr >:-( |
| 03:55.50 | sicu | raster: haha ... they're not that bad ;p |
| 03:57.26 | sicu | what's up doc? =] |
| 03:57.31 | raster | sicu: some people have ... lower expectations/standards :) |
| 03:57.46 | sicu | *g* |
| 03:59.22 | DocScrutinizer2 | sicu: xchat "fixes" my nick presets |
| 04:00.42 | sicu | hehe .. it knows best |
| 04:01.43 | raster | DocScrutinizer2: trust the xchat |
| 04:01.45 | raster | it knows better! |
| 04:03.05 | DocScrutinizer2 | lol. yeah also auto-caps can't be disabled it seems |
| 04:03.23 | DocScrutinizer2 | annoying |
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| 04:21.10 | Shlee | Anyone aware of a QT 4.4 update? |
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| 04:38.10 | sicu | anyone know what i have to do to get GPS going on SHR |
| 04:38.43 | sicu | tangoGPS comes with the image, but cannot get a fix :/ |
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| 07:08.09 | kebomix | Free Programming ebooks With Direct Links & Request ebooks Here http://request-ebooks.blogspot.com/ |
| 07:09.52 | *** part/#openmoko kebomix (n=ahmed@41.233.43.77) |
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| 07:29.13 | ColdFyre | blogspam |
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| 07:29.50 | ||Leto|| | sicu: get openmoko-agpsui |
| 07:30.09 | ||Leto|| | sicu: then get an open space, outside a building, with clear view of the sky |
| 07:30.20 | ||Leto|| | sicu: you won't get a fix within a house |
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| 08:17.20 | gurugentoo | dude, gnugo compiles for arm hehe |
| 08:17.32 | gurugentoo | it works pretty well on the fr |
| 08:18.40 | rhkfin | what's gnugo? |
| 08:19.03 | cjb | a Go program |
| 08:19.49 | gurugentoo | now I just need a gui other than the terminal |
| 08:20.39 | rhkfin | ah, ok :) |
| 08:20.54 | rhkfin | i thought of something mobile :) |
| 08:21.48 | gurugentoo | perhaps "GNU Go" would have been better |
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| 08:22.32 | rhkfin | ). |
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| 09:04.14 | flexd_ | hmm |
| 09:04.30 | flexd_ | i haven't really used my FR in a while, havent had time with school and all, which image should i flash it with? |
| 09:04.37 | flexd_ | Preferably for maximum usage capability :p |
| 09:04.48 | flexd_ | I think it's flashed with some ancient qtopia image now. |
| 09:06.49 | leinir | Hmm... It depends what you mean by usage capability, really :) |
| 09:07.16 | leinir | Use-as-phone capability or go-insane-and-poke-about-with capability? :) |
| 09:07.22 | noaXess | hi all |
| 09:07.39 | noaXess | what feed do i need for my gta02 if i installed qtopia? |
| 09:07.53 | leinir | qtopia or qtextended? :) |
| 09:07.57 | noaXess | i installed qtopia-4.3.3-gta02-rootfs.jffs2 |
| 09:08.07 | leinir | Right, just a second (wrong channel ;) ) |
| 09:08.16 | leinir | neo feed at http://qtopia.net/packages/feed/4.3.2/neo |
| 09:08.38 | flexd_ | leinir: basically use as a phone, finger friendly, not going to crash everytime i press something. (or not likely to crash) |
| 09:08.47 | noaXess | leinir: so i need to change my feeds.. cause they point to http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/testing/... |
| 09:08.48 | flexd_ | + being able to explore a bit :p |
| 09:09.08 | leinir | flexd_: In that case, Qt Extended 4.4.1 :) |
| 09:09.20 | leinir | noaXess: Ooh, that... Different feed, sorry :) |
| 09:09.22 | flexd_ | leinir: right.. |
| 09:09.28 | flexd_ | Guess i'll just have to find my phone then ;) |
| 09:09.34 | leinir | noaXess: No, just try loading the actual site, it'll tell you what to do :) |
| 09:09.39 | flexd_ | It's not possible to flash it from windows is it? |
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| 09:10.31 | leinir | NO idea, don't use it i'm afraid :) |
| 09:10.43 | noaXess | jep.. :) don't use win.. :) |
| 09:11.05 | flexd_ | seems i can |
| 09:11.28 | flexd_ | I usually have a linux machine available, but this machine is windows and i cba to put another machine up ;) |
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| 09:13.08 | noaXess | flexd_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner there is a windows part |
| 09:13.13 | noaXess | Windows: http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/?group_id=166&release_id=162 |
| 09:14.43 | noaXess | leinir: if i flash the rootfs, will the current rootfs will be overwritten and some settings will still be available? |
| 09:15.47 | leinir | If you flash the rootfs, it'll also overwrite all your settings (as they're in /etc or /root iirc) :) |
| 09:16.03 | noaXess | ok.. means a fresh install |
| 09:16.20 | noaXess | hm.. look: more /etc/version -> 200809300955 |
| 09:16.34 | noaXess | is that not a om stamp.. or is it also a qtopia time stamp |
| 09:16.54 | noaXess | where do i see what qtopia version i have installed? |
| 09:17.18 | noaXess | system info :) ok |
| 09:17.19 | noaXess | hm.. |
| 09:17.31 | noaXess | 4.3.3 |
| 09:17.41 | noaXess | now.. how to upgrade to 4.4.1 without reflashing it? |
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| 09:18.55 | sicu | looks like there's more effort involved in setting up a winblows machine for flashing the FR, than it would be to reformat, install linux and flash FR from there =] |
| 09:19.09 | sicu | or boot from livecd ... ;] |
| 09:20.11 | raster | sicu: and there's a problem with that? |
| 09:23.09 | flexd_ | sicu: i cba to do that :p |
| 09:23.19 | flexd_ | Guess i'll just hook it up to my server in the closet.. |
| 09:23.47 | sicu | hehe ... none whatsoever ... just trying to discourage flexd_ from his windows plans :p |
| 09:23.55 | sicu | ant it worked =] |
| 09:25.17 | ieatlint | i miss my lite brite |
| 09:25.54 | noaXess | on a neo freerunner need i the feed armv4t? |
| 09:25.57 | flexd_ | sicu: If it works in windows i might aswell do it |
| 09:26.44 | sicu | flexd_: the server in your closet runs windows ? |
| 09:26.57 | flexd_ | sicu: no, but it's like 5 meters away |
| 09:27.13 | flexd_ | cba to go all the way when im sitting 30cm from a usb outlet on my windows box :p |
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| 09:31.43 | sicu | haha ... lazy |
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| 09:32.13 | noaXess | if i do a opkg upgrade i get this: http://pastebin.com/d7cbb7fa5 |
| 09:32.29 | noaXess | any idea why this problem with libgmodule-2.0-0? |
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| 09:34.12 | noaXess | and also libgthread-2.0-0 |
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| 09:37.18 | noaXess | ? |
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| 10:19.19 | Kensan | raster: ping |
| 10:19.55 | raster | poong |
| 10:20.03 | Kensan | raster: ah there you are :) |
| 10:20.09 | Kensan | is tired |
| 10:20.20 | Kensan | raster: did you get your git repos fixed= |
| 10:20.21 | Kensan | ? |
| 10:20.24 | raster | yes |
| 10:20.32 | raster | building image with changes (bootup speedups etc.) |
| 10:20.39 | Kensan | nice! |
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| 10:20.58 | DocScrutinizer2 | moo |
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| 10:21.31 | raster | got proper patches ready |
| 10:21.35 | raster | just need to actually test |
| 10:22.07 | Kensan | raster: right. What did you change wrt init stuff? |
| 10:22.21 | Kensan | raster: did you chop a couple other things? |
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| 10:23.25 | raster | 0014-bootfast-improve-boot-speed-by-removing-useless-bi.patch |
| 10:23.26 | raster | 0015-boot-faster-move-avahi-to-level-51-for-init-late.patch |
| 10:23.26 | raster | 0016-move-xserver-earlier-to-S40-for-faster-boot.patch |
| 10:23.26 | raster | 0017-boot-faster-move-dropbear-to-S60-so-its-up-after-x.patch |
| 10:23.26 | raster | 0018-boot-faster-move-bluez-to-pri-55-after-x.patch |
| 10:23.26 | raster | 0019-remove-avahi-and-openssh-sftp-server-not-needed-fo.patch |
| 10:23.36 | raster | for now thats all |
| 10:23.46 | Kensan | raster: I will take your latest changes then once you push them and work on mdev |
| 10:23.50 | raster | 0014 remosed bootmisc uselessness |
| 10:24.08 | Kensan | raster: right, that's all the things we discussed this morning :) |
| 10:25.20 | noaXess | can't install any package the provides libgmodule.. |
| 10:25.26 | noaXess | Package libgmodule-2.0-0 wants to install file /usr/lib/libgmodule-2.0.so.0 |
| 10:25.32 | noaXess | any idea? |
| 10:25.40 | noaXess | But that file is already provided by package * libglib-2.0-0 |
| 10:26.16 | raster | Kensan: well some more in rcS.d |
| 10:26.23 | raster | like network coming up later |
| 10:26.24 | raster | etc. etc. |
| 10:26.45 | Kensan | raster: great. |
| 10:30.04 | raster | ok |
| 10:30.06 | raster | lets see if it boots |
| 10:30.08 | raster | at all |
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| 10:31.29 | noaXess | hey.. will i be ignored here? |
| 10:31.59 | Kensan | noaXess: no generally not but it seems nobody knows a solution to your problem. |
| 10:32.01 | raster | Kensan: it boots |
| 10:32.06 | Kensan | raster: cool :) |
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| 10:33.21 | noaXess | need a the armv4t feed on the om-gta02? |
| 10:33.23 | raster | unfortunately cant compare apples vs apples |
| 10:33.40 | noaXess | need i ^ |
| 10:33.47 | raster | different ubtoo timeouts on these 2 fr's |
| 10:33.55 | raster | and the new image has most of frameworkd back in |
| 10:33.59 | Kensan | raster: ah ic |
| 10:34.22 | raster | i think theres abotu a 10 second headstart on my old one |
| 10:34.25 | Kensan | raster: well then it's more "realistic" |
| 10:34.36 | raster | hmm |
| 10:34.44 | raster | cant spot a different in boot time :( |
| 10:34.56 | Kensan | hm... |
| 10:35.12 | raster | let me level out uboot land |
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| 10:40.02 | Kensan | raster: ldconfig alone gives you ~15 secs |
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| 10:47.38 | raster | hmmm |
| 10:48.01 | raster | uboot on one of my fr's loads and decompresses kernle much faster than the other |
| 10:48.03 | raster | odd |
| 10:48.09 | raster | about 5 seconds |
| 10:48.49 | raster | hmm |
| 10:48.51 | raster | neck and neck |
| 10:49.42 | raster | WOOOOOOOOOOOOO |
| 10:49.49 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:49.51 | raster | damnit |
| 10:49.53 | raster | frameworkd |
| 10:49.56 | raster | eating up ram |
| 10:50.27 | raster | thats about 7m or ram chewed up there |
| 10:50.30 | raster | is disturbed |
| 10:51.47 | Kensan | oh :( |
| 10:52.10 | raster | i was right to remove it frommy image |
| 10:52.26 | raster | for what is ju7st a back-end data/marshaller |
| 10:52.31 | raster | and event collector |
| 10:52.34 | raster | thats horrible |
| 10:52.38 | raster | e uses less ram |
| 10:53.06 | raster | (about 4m) |
| 10:53.17 | raster | and thats for hefty pixel/image/theme and font data |
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| 11:04.56 | Gromgull | wonders on the relationship between paroli, tichy and zhone |
| 11:05.16 | Hire | zhone is only a test program |
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| 11:07.12 | Gromgull | so zhone is only there while we wait for paroli |
| 11:07.34 | raster | or anything else that competes with it |
| 11:08.36 | Gromgull | and tichy is just a UI framework that will be used for paroli |
| 11:09.15 | raster | goes back to mulling his competing ui in c |
| 11:10.36 | Gromgull | Your c based FSO frontend? |
| 11:10.53 | Hire | no :) |
| 11:11.11 | Gromgull | his tichy competitor? |
| 11:11.41 | raster | i will do a dialler and sms and contact app in c |
| 11:11.42 | raster | anyway |
| 11:11.53 | raster | so basically all of the front end |
| 11:12.23 | Hire | and a nice notifer? |
| 11:12.28 | Hire | as 2007.2 |
| 11:13.18 | Gromgull | this sounds interesting - i always thought it a bit risky (i.e. slow) to write such a central part in python |
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| 11:23.27 | Kensan | raster: did you commit your patches? |
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| 11:24.26 | raster | Kensan: no |
| 11:24.28 | raster | not yet |
| 11:25.28 | admiral0 | raster:is there illume for debian? |
| 11:26.06 | raster | Kensan: have now |
| 11:26.13 | raster | admiral0: no that i know of |
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| 11:27.13 | admiral0 | raster:can enlightenment have some panels on one workspace, but not on another? |
| 11:27.23 | raster | yes |
| 11:27.42 | raster | shelf in e |
| 11:27.44 | admiral0 | :D |
| 11:27.44 | raster | in shelf config |
| 11:27.49 | raster | in advanced |
| 11:27.54 | admiral0 | fantastic |
| 11:28.06 | Kensan | raster: ok, I will rebuild here and take that as a base |
| 11:28.06 | admiral0 | ok |
| 11:28.14 | admiral0 | thank you |
| 11:28.32 | Kensan | raster: maybe I will remove all the phone stuff for the time being... |
| 11:28.34 | admiral0 | debian will be e17 for me now :D |
| 11:28.34 | Kensan | being |
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| 12:05.17 | lijian | hello |
| 12:05.54 | Lijia1 | 对ä¸èµ· æµè¯ |
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| 12:28.06 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r5c89c8b8495c 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py: ousaged: improve error specs, clean up, bump version |
| 12:28.06 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r5b2e4fdf7b30 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py: ousage: fix potential errors detected by pychecker |
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| 12:28.33 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r1f9002235a49 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/channel.py: ogsmd: send +CSMS=1 only after the SIM has been unlocked |
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| 12:38.48 | haakeyar | Hi. Has anyone looked at gbrainy? Looks like something that would be fun on the freerunner. I tried to crosscompile, but it requires gnome-sharp-2.0, which isn't in http://dev.bec-systems.com/feed/openmoko/mono/. |
| 12:40.08 | haakeyar | Another problem with it is that it doesn't allow a smaller window than 500x655, but it doesn't use all the space inside the window, so that could hopefully be changed without too much modification onf the code. |
| 12:41.16 | *** join/#openmoko Lijian (n=lijian@218.58.59.73) |
| 12:41.45 | raster | then modify away |
| 12:41.47 | raster | :) |
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| 12:46.41 | haakeyar | Yup, will probably look more at it, but if anyone else feels like having gbrainy on the FR, feel free to give it a try. I have to do my homework before I can do more (bah... I don't like to have homework in the weekends). ;) |
| 12:48.03 | SpeedEvil | passes haakeyar a dog, with a nametag 'Homeworkeater'. |
| 12:49.56 | DocScrutinizer2 | SpeedEvil: does the "dog" have a lanyard hole? :-) |
| 12:50.18 | viq | Depends how hard you try? ;) |
| 12:50.43 | DocScrutinizer2 | :-D |
| 12:54.33 | nikolajsheller | I've been fiddleing with my freerunner for a couple of days. Is there a way to synchronize Evolution with PIM on openmoko? |
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| 13:03.53 | DocScrutinizer2 | is there a way to enter "ctrl+F7" on N810-hw-keyboard? |
| 13:05.14 | DocScrutinizer2 | (maemo actually) |
| 13:07.13 | avtobiff | nikolajsheller, i don't know the answer to your question but i am also interested in this. btw, what pim do you use? |
| 13:07.26 | raster | DocScrutinizer2: none i know of |
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| 13:12.49 | DocScrutinizer2 | hmm,xmodmap? |
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| 13:16.08 | nikolajsheller | avtobiff: I want to use evolution. I would like to share contacts/calendar/mail between the openmoko and my desktop Evolution |
| 13:16.12 | raster | if they used e and illume |
| 13:16.21 | raster | i'd say "writ e akbd file that has F1-FN keys" |
| 13:16.22 | raster | :) |
| 13:17.47 | DocScrutinizer | actually "chr" key seems to have no modifier properties at all |
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| 13:18.19 | DocScrutinizer | also there seem to be unused valid combinations like ctrl-BS etc |
| 13:18.53 | DocScrutinizer | missinig ALT key is a PITA |
| 13:19.13 | raster | points at alt in the Termiona.kbd for illume |
| 13:19.16 | raster | admittedly |
| 13:19.19 | raster | missing function keys |
| 13:19.26 | raster | but hey |
| 13:19.31 | raster | u can only fit so much in |
| 13:19.32 | raster | :) |
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| 13:20.09 | DocScrutinizer | do things like "doubleclick" e.g. the ctrl key? to get ALT |
| 13:20.36 | raster | already have an alt |
| 13:20.37 | raster | "_ |
| 13:20.41 | raster | :) |
| 13:20.43 | raster | so no need |
| 13:20.53 | DocScrutinizer | hey, I bought N810 to learn how to do *better* on NEO ;-) |
| 13:22.21 | DocScrutinizer | painfully miss my "ALT-." in terminal of N810 ;-) |
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| 13:40.27 | kebomix | Free programming ebooks With Direct Links & Request ebooks Here http://request-ebooks.blogspot.com/ |
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| 14:15.01 | Gromgull | has anyone experience with mounting hte jffs2 images? |
| 14:15.08 | Gromgull | i.e. on a "normal" computer? :) |
| 14:16.05 | mjr | wiki has instructions |
| 14:17.38 | Gromgull | yes, but i get errors :) |
| 14:17.42 | Gromgull | mount: special device /dev/mtdblock0 does not exist |
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| 14:19.51 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczx (n=simon@gentoo/user/xzcvczx) |
| 14:20.18 | xzcvczx | does anyone have a toolchain set up for neo1973 that could compile 1 file for me? |
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| 14:22.28 | xiangfu | xzcvzx i have |
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| 14:25.22 | xzcvczx | xiangfu: http://rafb.net/p/1dclTd43.html |
| 14:25.28 | xzcvczx | if you wouldnt miond |
| 14:25.29 | xzcvczx | mind* |
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| 14:27.28 | linuxxr | WHAT "your heeaadd hurts too much to think" |
| 14:30.03 | *** join/#openmoko oon (n=oon@ankhoon.net) |
| 14:31.52 | Gromgull | ponders "mount: unknown filesystem type 'jffs2'" |
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| 14:32.01 | lindi- | xzcvczx: you don't have a debian machine around? |
| 14:32.43 | xzcvczx | lindi-: i am on a ubuntu one currently, but my download speed is very slow at the moment and i dont have the toolchain |
| 14:36.05 | *** join/#openmoko rkirti (n=kirtibr@203.199.213.3) |
| 14:36.10 | lindi- | xzcvczx: apt-get install emdebian-tools && sudo emsetup --arch armel && arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc -o hello hello.c fork for something so simple here in debian uns |
| 14:36.13 | lindi- | +table |
| 14:36.23 | lindi- | s/fork/works/ |
| 14:36.52 | xiangfu | xzcvczx: i got this: xz.c:(.text+0x1d4): undefined reference to `pow' |
| 14:37.05 | lindi- | xzcvczx: you forgot to link libm |
| 14:37.29 | xzcvczx | xiangfu: gcc -o altitude altitude.c -lm -Os |
| 14:38.40 | lindi- | xzcvczx: http://iki.fi/lindi/tmp/altitude is what i get |
| 14:38.46 | lindi- | xzcvczx: with arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc altitude.c -o altitude -Os -lm |
| 14:39.06 | *** join/#openmoko Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) |
| 14:39.11 | xiangfu | xzcvczx: got it |
| 14:39.44 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@adsl-ull-213-17.49-151.net24.it) |
| 14:40.14 | xzcvczx | cheers |
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| 14:42.27 | xzcvczx | lindi-: and thanks for the advice about emdebian-tools, hadn't see that before |
| 14:42.46 | lindi- | xzcvczx: i use it to build debian packages with distcc |
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| 14:53.10 | xzcvczx | lindi-: gah unfortunately emsetup == fail for me |
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| 14:56.19 | lindi- | xzcvczx: where's the bug report? |
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| 14:59.20 | xiangfu | xzcvcz: hi what is that |
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| 15:04.12 | xzcvczx | lindi-: ah working now just req'd a apt-get update |
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| 15:04.27 | xzcvczx | xiangfu: something i want to time on a newo |
| 15:04.32 | xzcvczx | neo* |
| 15:05.36 | xzcvczx | hence why it doesnt actually print anything out |
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| 15:16.04 | Gromgull | the greatest tragedy of my openmoko adventure is that I cannot get openmoocow to work |
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| 15:19.27 | Gromgull | root@om-gta02:~# alsamixer |
| 15:19.27 | Gromgull | alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such device |
| 15:19.28 | Gromgull | ugh... |
| 15:19.39 | DocScrutinizer | duh, sorry, didn't watch |
| 15:19.53 | DocScrutinizer | sorry wrong channel |
| 15:20.32 | geaaru | hi, i'm try to boot from microSD with my neo1937 but i have this error: No filesystem could mount root, tried: ext2 cramfs romfs |
| 15:20.57 | geaaru | Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: unable to mount root fs on unknown-block... |
| 15:21.02 | geaaru | s/ext2/ext3 |
| 15:21.26 | geaaru | this means that are supported only ext3 cramfs or romfs filesystem ? |
| 15:21.33 | geaaru | thanks in advance for any replies |
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| 15:28.05 | xiangfu | xzcvczx: seems you comment the printf |
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| 15:29.40 | Simpson_Penner_ | hallo |
| 15:30.42 | *** join/#openmoko Blanko (n=Blankowo@blankoworld.homelinux.com) |
| 15:30.47 | Simpson_Penner_ | ich wurde aus dem pennergame-chat gekickt und hab einfach mal den nächstbesten channel ausprobierz xD |
| 15:30.59 | xiangfu | xzcvczx: i compile a new one for you with "include <stdio.h>" and uncomment the printf lines |
| 15:31.54 | bipak | wtf. |
| 15:32.40 | lindi- | Gromgull: you hvaen't installed all modules needed perhaps? |
| 15:34.40 | Kensan | raster: sent you another oneliner. |
| 15:36.32 | Gromgull | lindi-: i've not touched the modules, this is default 2008.09 image |
| 15:36.35 | Gromgull | i ran opkg upgrade though |
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| 15:36.55 | lindi- | Gromgull: lsmod? |
| 15:37.02 | lindi- | Gromgull: zcat /proc/config.gz? |
| 15:37.04 | Gromgull | no modules are loaded |
| 15:37.23 | Gromgull | hmm... no modules? |
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| 15:40.30 | Dave | Hallo |
| 15:41.16 | Kensan | Hi Dave |
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| 15:41.54 | Kensan | Dave: fried a Zire today yet? |
| 15:42.20 | Dave | No! |
| 15:42.26 | Dave | They're sitting next to me, being good :) |
| 15:42.53 | Kensan | Dave: did you put one in the mail for me? ;) |
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| 15:43.05 | xzcvczx | xiangfu: lol, i don't need it to print anything out, hence why it was commented. |
| 15:43.19 | xzcvczx | xiangfu: just going to be using time ./blah to see how long it takes |
| 15:44.53 | quickdev | mickey|bbl, http://rafb.net/p/1yddpC62.html - could you have a quick look? power up antenna fails with a TIMEOUT (in frameworkd), not in dbus anymore.. |
| 15:45.00 | Dave | Kensan :D |
| 15:45.22 | Dave | time blah? |
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| 15:46.18 | mickey|bbl | quickdev: that looks pretty strange. are you using port forwarding by any chance? the contents is completely wrong / missing, looks like it's reading zero's from the ptys |
| 15:46.44 | mickey|bbl | err wait |
| 15:46.46 | mickey|bbl | that was event1 |
| 15:46.57 | xiangfu | xzcvczx: hi here is the output of my gta02 --> root@om-gta02:~# time ./altitude |
| 15:46.57 | xiangfu | pressure at 3000m is 100965.124462pascals |
| 15:46.57 | xiangfu | reconvert to meters is 3012.182553m |
| 15:46.57 | xiangfu | Command exited with non-zero status 36 |
| 15:46.57 | xiangfu | real0m 2.30s |
| 15:46.58 | xiangfu | user0m 2.25s |
| 15:47.00 | xiangfu | sys0m 0.01s |
| 15:47.11 | mickey|bbl | quickdev: i can't see CFUN in your dump |
| 15:47.19 | quickdev | yeah, that's missing |
| 15:47.33 | mickey|bbl | ok, so it doesn't even get so far |
| 15:47.37 | mickey|bbl | let me dig further |
| 15:47.40 | quickdev | mickey|bbl, I get a sim auth status signal, but no response to set antenna power |
| 15:48.01 | mickey|bbl | ah, here we are: |
| 15:48.10 | mickey|bbl | 2008.10.18 17:34:56 ogsmd INFO <CallChannel via /dev/pts/11>: HUP on socket, trying to recover |
| 15:48.18 | mickey|bbl | for some reason the channel hangs up |
| 15:48.31 | mickey|bbl | this is using port forwarding, right? |
| 15:48.37 | quickdev | yeah |
| 15:48.40 | quickdev | netcat and pty |
| 15:48.42 | xzcvczx | xiangfu: ah ok, my neo has just booted so i will be testing it on that in a minute |
| 15:48.43 | mickey|bbl | yep |
| 15:48.50 | mickey|bbl | that's the artefact i had as well |
| 15:48.58 | mickey|bbl | now it would be great if you could look into that |
| 15:49.25 | mickey|bbl | the recovering on HUP does not work, i know, but if it HUPs at all, then the problem lays in the lower level |
| 15:49.26 | xzcvczx | mickey|bbl: hey, just wondering whether an attempt at getting a static binary of gllin has been requested, i realise that it may be slightly bigger but it would avoid the need for the wrapper? |
| 15:49.49 | quickdev | mickey|bbl, we have to find why there are HUPs, right? |
| 15:49.53 | mickey|bbl | xzcvczx: "getting" from where? |
| 15:49.55 | mickey|bbl | quickdev: correct |
| 15:50.09 | mickey|bbl | xzcvczx: we can no longer expect any support from Broadcom on that |
| 15:50.27 | mickey|bbl | xzcvczx: I'd rather have someone looking into andrewzjs just-in-time OABI shim |
| 15:50.30 | xzcvczx | mickey|bbl: oh, ok |
| 15:50.48 | SpeedEvil | wishes for a source leak. |
| 15:50.55 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: don't we all. |
| 15:51.15 | SpeedEvil | Iphone uses the same one. |
| 15:52.21 | xzcvczx | it would be nice also as it means if you add a altimeter to the device you can get more accurate position data |
| 15:52.57 | *** join/#openmoko CIA-22 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 15:52.58 | xzcvczx | and so you can strap a neo/iphone onto the back of a missile :P |
| 15:53.04 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.196.145.88) |
| 15:53.09 | *** join/#openmoko Staticwave_Ace (n=Ace@d57-135-60.home.cgocable.net) |
| 15:53.58 | viq | You can't really do that, consumer GPSs shut down if acceleration or speed exceed certain limits. |
| 15:54.12 | Dave | What!? |
| 15:54.29 | SpeedEvil | Dave: ITAR limits |
| 15:54.39 | SpeedEvil | Dave: cut out at 60000ft/1000kts (both) |
| 15:54.46 | Dave | huh? |
| 15:54.50 | viq | That's one of the reasons why interface to GPS needs to be closed source, so you can't circumvent that. |
| 15:54.54 | SpeedEvil | Dave: it's a missile. |
| 15:54.59 | SpeedEvil | Dave: a munition rather |
| 15:55.00 | Dave | What's a missile? |
| 15:55.04 | SpeedEvil | Dave: a non-limited GPS |
| 15:55.09 | SpeedEvil | Dave: in terms of US law. |
| 15:55.11 | *** join/#openmoko accumulator (n=accu@195-240-237-161.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 15:55.15 | Dave | Fuck the US? |
| 15:55.35 | viq | Dave: indeed, why use their positioning system? |
| 15:55.35 | SpeedEvil | Dave: right next to it in the legislation is kick motors for satellites that are useful for dropping satellites off orbit onto targets. |
| 15:55.52 | quickdev | mickey|bbl, http://rafb.net/p/3ZOBy121.html |
| 15:56.03 | Dave | Goldeneye? |
| 15:56.05 | quickdev | gsm0710muxd[28606]: gsm0710muxd.c:569:pseudo_device_read(): Write to a channel which wasn't acked to be open. |
| 15:56.35 | Dave | is gsmd black now? |
| 15:56.44 | Dave | or is that a terrible pun? |
| 15:57.25 | xzcvczx | viq: i was commenting that if the source was leaked for gllin you could disable the limits |
| 15:57.32 | viq | Ah |
| 15:58.05 | viq | Yeah. And someone would get into a lot of trouble, I believe. |
| 15:58.10 | mickey|bbl | quickdev: this is a muxing problem. Please talk to emdete for more details. Occasionally we see this on the device as well but after some chars, it works |
| 15:58.18 | mickey|bbl | somehow it makes more problems when forwarding |
| 15:58.42 | quickdev | may this be the hup problem? |
| 15:58.55 | mickey|bbl | might be related, but not exactly that |
| 15:58.58 | xzcvczx | viq: only if they got caught :P |
| 15:59.08 | mickey|bbl | HUP is when the pty gets closed, right? |
| 15:59.20 | SpeedEvil | viq: it's only actually a US treaty, which forbids exports |
| 15:59.20 | mickey|bbl | and the muxer will never close a pty |
| 15:59.26 | mickey|bbl | only when the client opens and closes the pty |
| 15:59.43 | mickey|bbl | so i think the problem still is in the signalling |
| 15:59.46 | mwester | observes that those who have the ability to launch something that travels that fast and that high almost certainly already has access to GPS devices without the limits. |
| 15:59.50 | davi | I do not like the T-Mobile G1 mobile shape design. And its software is not free software. |
| 16:00.06 | xzcvczx | mwester_: yeah i was acutally going to say that as well |
| 16:00.44 | mwester | 's GTA01 just got a GPS fix sitting on his desk, on its back... perhaps the SD card clock *does* make a difference for the GTA01 as well. |
| 16:01.31 | Dave | Mwester! |
| 16:01.35 | xzcvczx | mwester_: really, i saw someone ask that on the mailing lists but i havent seen any proof yet |
| 16:01.58 | SpeedEvil | mwester: the difference between 'AND' and 'OR' is important to some. |
| 16:02.00 | mwester | Yes, someone very important asked about that ;) |
| 16:02.09 | SpeedEvil | mwester: you can launch a high altitude balloon cheap. |
| 16:02.17 | Dave | Hooray! |
| 16:02.20 | *** join/#openmoko mrmoku (n=mok@ppp-93-104-127-56.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 16:02.22 | SpeedEvil | mwester: well under $100 |
| 16:02.23 | Dave | Remember, Lawnchair Larry :) |
| 16:02.43 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: you show me a weather balloon that goes faster than 1000kts :P |
| 16:02.55 | Dave | haha |
| 16:02.55 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: many misimplement the limits. |
| 16:02.59 | Dave | rockets? |
| 16:03.26 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: and it cuts out at 60kft |
| 16:03.56 | SpeedEvil | Amateur balloons often hit 30Km+ |
| 16:04.08 | SpeedEvil | With assorted random cameras hung off them. |
| 16:04.16 | quickdev | mickey|bbl, damn, it's working fine now, I forgot to kill gsmmuxd on my neo when I rebooted |
| 16:04.19 | SpeedEvil | And GPS, and RF beacons. |
| 16:04.41 | mickey|bbl | quickdev: oops :) |
| 16:04.56 | mickey|bbl | quickdev: ya, the modem will happily let you acquire tons of muxed channels |
| 16:05.04 | mickey|bbl | only the first 4 will respond though :D |
| 16:05.10 | xzcvczx | i am surprised the cameras can still function at those sort of altitudes |
| 16:05.25 | quickdev | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:05.25 | quickdev | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:05.25 | quickdev | AssertionError: HUP on bogus source |
| 16:05.31 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: -40C is probably more of a problem than the lack of atmosphere. |
| 16:05.37 | *** join/#openmoko ipa (n=Administ@219-81-232-44.dynamic.tfn.net.tw) |
| 16:05.44 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: yeah i did realise that |
| 16:05.50 | quickdev | mickey|bbl, I get that...but I don't know if that bugs functionality |
| 16:05.55 | quickdev | I'll test a few things |
| 16:06.02 | xzcvczx | -20 is most electronics minimum limit |
| 16:06.44 | Dave | :O |
| 16:07.14 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: minimum specified limit. |
| 16:07.25 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: the electronics can rarely read the manual. |
| 16:07.30 | mickey|bbl | quickdev: perhaps it's just the timing that's upsetting the modem or the muxer |
| 16:07.30 | mwester | The amateur rocketry package I saw many years ago was completely encased in styrofoam packaging, and used the heat from the electronics onboard to keep the gear at a functioning temperature. |
| 16:07.41 | xzcvczx | i wouldnt want to push cmos sensors too far past that thought |
| 16:10.04 | SpeedEvil | http://www.natrium42.com/halo/flight2/#panoramas |
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| 16:12.15 | Kensan | raster: the immage I built has some kernel issues on boot (bluetooth and sound related). |
| 16:12.55 | Dave | who needs atmosphere anyway ?:D |
| 16:14.09 | *** join/#openmoko ccube_ (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 16:14.16 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:15.57 | Kinetic | anyone know how to jack up the volume on mic2? |
| 16:16.14 | Kinetic | i've already turned the vol to 3 in gsmhandset.state, but it is still hella quiet |
| 16:16.51 | Dave | shrugs |
| 16:16.55 | Dave | alsamixer? |
| 16:17.31 | quickdev | SpeedEvil, do you know if that's legal? What if there's an airplane? :) |
| 16:17.34 | *** join/#openmoko pb_ (n=pb@88-111-190-175.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:17.46 | Kinetic | any other settings which would improve the volume coming across the handset mic? |
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| 16:18.07 | drazak | Dave: alsamixer=<3 |
| 16:18.22 | xzcvczx | quickdev: if you live near an airport i would talk to ATC otherwise big amount of sky small amount of planes relatively speakinbg |
| 16:19.01 | quickdev | yeah, but there will be laws retricting the sky usage, hehe.. |
| 16:19.04 | SpeedEvil | quickdev: the actual time it spends at normal altitudes is fairly small. No airplanes at 30Km. |
| 16:19.12 | SpeedEvil | Well, now that the SR71 isn't flying. |
| 16:19.22 | xzcvczx | althought there is legally speaking restricted airspace above 13000feetish |
| 16:20.06 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - it's usually legal to launch balloons - you generally need to talk to someone, and may need to drive a few miles. |
| 16:20.10 | quickdev | very interesting project..hehe |
| 16:20.19 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178044108.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:20.54 | sicu | FAQ: Even though the chance of collision is very small, there was an aluminium foil inside the capsule for radar reflection. Control towers should have been able to track it. As for legality, as far as I can tell, it's permitted for that weight without requirements to notify any authority. |
| 16:21.32 | xzcvczx | sicu: that particular sort of radar is not the main one used anymore. |
| 16:21.45 | *** join/#openmoko unlotto (n=unlotto@ip114.rev112.brygge.net) |
| 16:21.56 | xzcvczx | and would be doubtful it would work unless your were right beside the airport |
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| 16:33.34 | mickey|bbl | ~seen abraxa |
| 16:33.37 | apt | i haven't seen 'abraxa', mickey|bbl |
| 16:33.37 | mickey|bbl | ~seen abraxa_ |
| 16:33.38 | apt | abraxa_ <n=abraxa@nv-76-0-206-49.dhcp.embarqhsd.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 45d 24m 48s ago, saying: 'thebishop: Well, there are no "variants" manufactured, so no variants to buy. You'd have to get a complete phone and toss the parts you don't want'. |
| 16:33.46 | mickey|bbl | ~seen abraxa__ |
| 16:33.47 | apt | abraxa__ <n=abraxa@pD95FC5CF.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 109d 18h 25m 58s ago, saying: 'Ghiottone: I looked earlier but unfortunately I can only find the user manual that we already have :('. |
| 16:34.16 | mickey|bbl | ~seen suprkiddo |
| 16:34.16 | apt | i haven't seen 'suprkiddo', mickey|bbl |
| 16:34.19 | mickey|bbl | ~seen supr3kiddo |
| 16:34.20 | apt | i haven't seen 'supr3kiddo', mickey|bbl |
| 16:34.23 | mickey|bbl | *sigh* |
| 16:34.29 | mickey|bbl | all these weird nicks |
| 16:34.35 | mickey|bbl | ~seen sup3kiddo |
| 16:34.36 | apt | mickey|bbl: i haven't seen 'sup3kiddo' |
| 16:34.38 | mickey|bbl | ~seen sup3rkiddo |
| 16:34.38 | apt | sup3rkiddo <n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh> was last seen on IRC in channel #gsoc, 8d 13m 11s ago, saying: 'summatusmentis,'. |
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| 16:38.32 | xzcvczx | mickey|bbl: theres no such thing as weird nicks |
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| 16:43.15 | Kensan | mickey|bbl: oe's openmoko kernel is not really functional, especially f1201f2ad74e7f4b6715b9b609bf3be1d2e609fc seems to mess up audio and bluetooth :( |
| 16:44.04 | mickey|bbl | that's a revision number of which SCM? |
| 16:44.19 | Kronk | flashes back to FDOM on his Freerunner |
| 16:44.41 | Kensan | mickey|bbl: oe git |
| 16:45.15 | quickdev | mickey|bbl, http://rafb.net/p/TzdqK888.html - I killed my application and relaunched it....I didn't call release when killing....I understand the behaviour..but I should fail more gracefully? |
| 16:45.26 | Kensan | mickey|bbl: I don't quite understand koen's commit msg. |
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| 16:46.25 | Kensan | mickey|bbl: on boot alsa says: "No soundcards found" bluetooth seems to work fine though. |
| 16:46.43 | Kensan | mickey|bbl: simply judging by the syslog. |
| 16:48.12 | Kensan | mickey|bbl: something else seems to be off to, since I get "jffs2_scan_inode_node() crc failed" messages. In the end the rootfs gets mounted RO. |
| 16:48.16 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-092-154.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:48.28 | mickey|bbl | yeah |
| 16:48.29 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 16:48.31 | mickey|bbl | i keep getting the same |
| 16:48.34 | mickey|bbl | no idea what's going on there |
| 16:48.41 | mickey|bbl | and no time to investigate unfortunately |
| 16:50.20 | mickey|bbl | quickdev: yes, it should fail more gracefully. can you make a ticket please? |
| 16:50.25 | mickey|bbl | need to run now |
| 16:51.00 | Kensan | mickey|dinner: right. Maybe I get some time to look into it... |
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| 16:55.42 | Kensan | mwester: ping |
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| 16:56.43 | Dave | drazak :) |
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| 17:03.40 | AJuOnLiNE | anyone here has openmoko running under qemu? |
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| 17:04.51 | bipak | Kensan: was you the guy with the loud speaker yesterday? |
| 17:05.04 | Dave | hah |
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| 17:07.06 | Kensan | bipak: eh I don't think so. |
| 17:07.12 | bipak | okay :> |
| 17:07.17 | bipak | too many nicks.. .p |
| 17:07.27 | Kensan | bipak: there's only one Kensan |
| 17:07.30 | Kensan | *heh* |
| 17:07.36 | Kronk | lol |
| 17:08.14 | bipak | thats obviously true |
| 17:08.28 | bipak | tell that my brain |
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| 17:09.14 | Kensan2 | or is there? |
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| 17:09.45 | bipak | lol :D |
| 17:09.54 | Dave | brain make moko do what now? |
| 17:09.55 | bipak | i think it was kensan2 |
| 17:10.01 | Dave | brainmoko? |
| 17:10.14 | Dave | mindmoko |
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| 17:10.57 | bipak | huh oO |
| 17:11.08 | Dave | sense I make not! |
| 17:11.17 | bipak | lol |
| 17:11.23 | Dave | :D |
| 17:11.31 | bipak | i think you read to much lines here |
| 17:11.32 | bipak | :D |
| 17:12.12 | viq | make: don't know how to make sense. Stop in #openmoko |
| 17:12.13 | Dave | haha |
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| 17:12.20 | Dave | viq :P |
| 17:12.21 | Dave | aw |
| 17:12.34 | viq | :P |
| 17:12.58 | Kensan | Dave is just here to spice things up. His comments always aim at messing with our minds. |
| 17:13.01 | Kensan | be ware |
| 17:14.25 | Gromgull | how do I take a screenshot in 2008.09? |
| 17:15.00 | *** part/#openmoko qhartman (n=qhartman@69.30.1.228) |
| 17:15.18 | bipak | i think dave knows that |
| 17:15.18 | bipak | :P |
| 17:16.58 | Dave | ~_~ |
| 17:16.59 | apt | STOP DOING THAT! |
| 17:17.31 | Kensan | Gromgull: cat /dev/fb? > dump.raw |
| 17:17.34 | Tm_T | Gromgull: use "import -window root snapshot.png" ? |
| 17:19.08 | Gromgull | import from imagemagick? |
| 17:19.22 | Tm_T | yep |
| 17:19.30 | Tm_T | dunno if it works though |
| 17:19.32 | Gromgull | not opkg gettable? |
| 17:19.41 | Tm_T | aww |
| 17:20.57 | Kensan | Gromgull: gpe-scap |
| 17:23.08 | Gromgull | thanks Kenzan! |
| 17:23.20 | *** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=chatzill@78-20-186-137.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:23.39 | mwester | Kensan: pong |
| 17:24.15 | *** join/#openmoko just_asking_a_qu (n=andrew@adsl-251-40-253.jan.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:24.15 | Kensan | mwester: have you built an linux-openmoko_2.6.24-git-r10 kernel lately in upstream oe? |
| 17:24.30 | just_asking_a_qu | is anyone using SHR? |
| 17:24.33 | mwester | I don't use oe kernels -- I build them, but don't flash them. |
| 17:24.43 | Dave | :o |
| 17:24.49 | Dave | you walk a fine line, mwester ;) |
| 17:25.10 | Kensan | mwester: defconfig-oe is borked. |
| 17:25.15 | wurp2|working | just_asking_a_qu: Ainulindale and sicu are |
| 17:25.21 | Dave | SICU!? |
| 17:25.22 | just_asking_a_qu | i can't ssh my SHR running freerunner |
| 17:25.29 | mwester | Kensan: ;) every defconfig except mine is borked ;) |
| 17:25.40 | Kensan | mwester: hehe touché |
| 17:26.10 | mwester | IMO we might as well have a random defconfig generator; it would be hard to have any more differences between all the distros and their kernels. |
| 17:26.16 | mwester | What does it do wrong? |
| 17:26.25 | mwester | thinks this might be an excuse to put it right |
| 17:26.55 | Kensan | mwester: bt and audio get builtin. oddly enough Alsa does not find a soundcard anymore. |
| 17:26.58 | Dave | Mission statement generator! |
| 17:27.04 | wurp2|working | just_asking_a_qu: I tried it, but ran out of space on flash and time to try SD |
| 17:27.08 | Kensan | make randconfig, its all there |
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| 17:27.31 | Kensan | mwester: then jffs2 crc errors which lead to rootfs being mounted RO. |
| 17:27.52 | Kensan | mwester: just build a kernel with om-defconfig -> looks ok. |
| 17:28.14 | mwester | Kensan: good! :) I'll poke at it when I get FSO building again here, and make some other commits to rationalize it a bit. mickey|dinner can revert it if someone objects, but I doubt anyone will have any bit issues with a bit of cleanup. |
| 17:28.42 | Kensan | koen's commit msg says that the modules are builtin to workaround some toolchain brokenness. I don't quite understand though since oe is still a bit vodoo for me. |
| 17:29.00 | mwester | A commit message? What the date/time stamp on that? |
| 17:29.07 | Kensan | mwester: gimme a sec |
| 17:29.24 | Kensan | mwester: f1201f2ad74e7f4b6715b9b609bf3be1d2e609fc |
| 17:29.36 | Kensan | mwester: Date: Fri Oct 17 13:39:06 2008 +0200 |
| 17:30.03 | mwester | Ok, so very recent. |
| 17:30.04 | Kensan | mwester: maybe they fixed the toolchain issues in the meantime... |
| 17:30.35 | mwester | I think that's bleed-through from when angstrom was going to get rid of OABI compat, perhaps. |
| 17:30.38 | Kensan | mwester: kernel compilation went through ok eventhough sound & bt were built as modules |
| 17:30.52 | Kensan | mwester: hm ok. |
| 17:30.58 | mwester | I see no need for those to be modules, do you? |
| 17:31.12 | Kensan | mwester: btw, the defconfig also has some crap in it I think... |
| 17:31.39 | mwester | You're building fso I presume? |
| 17:31.41 | just_asking_a_qu | is anyone running SHR? |
| 17:31.44 | Kensan | mwester: is CONFIG_MACH_HXD8=y needed? |
| 17:31.50 | mwester | Nope |
| 17:31.57 | Kensan | mwester: rasters illume-image |
| 17:32.03 | Dave | Hello wurp |
| 17:32.21 | mwester | Oh, I don't have that image in OE, I think. |
| 17:32.29 | Kensan | raster: so upstream oe which uses linux-openmoko_2.6.24+git.bb |
| 17:32.31 | KaZeR | Kensan, do you share your builds? |
| 17:32.55 | Kensan | KaZeR: well I can but they don't really work so I don't know who would be interested ;) |
| 17:33.07 | KaZeR | ah.. if they don't work.. |
| 17:33.10 | KaZeR | :) |
| 17:33.45 | Kensan | KaZeR: actually I can't share them that easily since my public server is still a couple weeks out. |
| 17:34.03 | Kensan | mwester: so upstream oe which uses linux-openmoko_2.6.24+git.bb |
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| 17:34.39 | mwester | Yep. It'll take a bit to get the cross tools built for that. |
| 17:34.39 | Kensan | mwester: rasters stuff is located at http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/TMP/oe/ |
| 17:34.47 | mwester | Ok. |
| 17:34.56 | Kensan | mwester: he has all the scripts there |
| 17:35.12 | Kensan | mwester: he's maintaining his local patches there. Somebody should get him commit access to oe... |
| 17:35.23 | Kensan | mwester: would make things easier imho |
| 17:36.36 | Kensan | mwester: where can I fand your kernel-configs? do you "maintain" one for gta02? |
| 17:38.03 | Dave | checks mwester's "site" again |
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| 17:39.51 | Kensan | Dave: care to share the url? |
| 17:40.14 | Kensan | Dave: nvm :) |
| 17:40.24 | Kensan | puppies! |
| 17:40.45 | Dave | YES |
| 17:41.06 | mwester | Kensan: They are always in /proc/config.gz (or whatever that location is), but here's a URL: http://pastebin.ca/1230321 |
| 17:41.07 | just_asking_a_qu | i've read the networking section of the openmoko page and done everything it said, and i still can't ssh into the damn thing |
| 17:41.47 | Dave | fucking irritating calypsos |
| 17:41.50 | Kensan | mwester: thanks |
| 17:41.56 | mwester | np |
| 17:42.10 | Dave | Mwester, no more kernel updates? :( |
| 17:42.44 | mwester | Dave: Nope, I'm not excited about the latest patches on the stable branch. |
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| 17:43.25 | Kensan | mickey|dinner: using the OM defconfig for gta02 instead of the defconfig-oe solved it for me. The toolchain breakage describe in the commit msg seems to be fixed now... |
| 17:43.43 | Kensan | mwester: why is that? |
| 17:43.48 | mwester | "News flash! HUGE power savings for the FR!! Patch applied!!!" (fine print: "with this patch, not only may you experience the WSoD on resume, now you'll get that pleasure and joy when it merely blanks the screen!) |
| 17:44.28 | Kensan | mwester: ah that one... why did they slap that onto stable? |
| 17:44.56 | Dave | Mwester :( |
| 17:45.15 | Kensan|dinner | bbl |
| 17:45.17 | Dave | Depressing. |
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| 17:45.35 | mwester | Om had no business keeping that patch on stable as soon as that was reported -- it should have gone to a developer branch and been used to debug that Glamo problem more thoroughly. But instead it sits on stable... And Andy can't figure out why the release builds from Om and Oe don't pull the tip of his stable branch by default... ??!!! |
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| 17:47.07 | unknown_lamer | at least now a smaller bit of code than suspend/resume in general triggers the WSoD |
| 17:47.13 | unknown_lamer | perhaps it can be debugged now... |
| 17:47.17 | Gromgull | Why does my new image have no sound? |
| 17:47.22 | Gromgull | and no kernel modules loaded... |
| 17:47.23 | unknown_lamer | versus "oh there is some race condition that I can't figure out at all" |
| 17:47.24 | Gromgull | hmm |
| 17:47.29 | dolf1074 | mwester: where can you follow the patches that go into the stable branch? |
| 17:48.11 | Dave | oh hot |
| 17:48.17 | Dave | I found a bunch of Hg Cells |
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| 17:59.48 | Gromgull | is sound compiled as a module or built in for 2008.08? |
| 17:59.55 | Gromgull | 09 |
| 17:59.57 | Gromgull | i guess |
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| 18:24.33 | just_asking_a_qu | finally installing debian on my freerunner |
| 18:25.04 | Gromgull | just_asking_a_qu: good idea! |
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| 18:25.17 | Gromgull | there is also #openmoko-debia |
| 18:25.18 | Gromgull | n |
| 18:25.23 | just_asking_a_qu | cool |
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| 18:33.43 | Zorkman | welcome artur_ |
| 18:33.46 | Zorkman | and goodbye :) |
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| 18:34.29 | Kensan|dinner | mwester: are you also seeing "connect(): no such file or directory" messages after init loads? |
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| 19:05.26 | timur | hey guys, anyone had any luck disabling the power management stuff on the wireless card for the phone? |
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| 19:49.54 | ozzloy | i can't power on my phone. i just tried 3 different batteries |
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| 19:50.15 | ozzloy | i have no more batteries. what can i do now? |
| 19:56.36 | rooly|away | you're phone won't turn on? |
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| 20:00.10 | ozzloy | yes |
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| 20:02.05 | rooly|away | tried just plugging it into the wall charger and praying? |
| 20:02.23 | ozzloy | yeah tried that |
| 20:02.33 | ozzloy | wait, sans battery? |
| 20:02.39 | stevenSn | Have you tried holding down the the AUX button before pressing power? |
| 20:02.39 | rooly|away | no, with the battery |
| 20:02.48 | Tig| | is this the dead battery question perchance? |
| 20:02.55 | rooly|away | tis |
| 20:03.08 | ozzloy | 3 dead batteries simultaneously? |
| 20:03.28 | ozzloy | aux then power works |
| 20:03.32 | ozzloy | \0/ |
| 20:03.58 | rooly|away | plug in the wall charger and just wait |
| 20:04.08 | Tig| | take battery out, put battery in £10 nokia from supermarket charge for a bit then swap or use battery from other device fully power up FR then while plug in swap the battery |
| 20:04.17 | rooly|away | or do that |
| 20:05.19 | Tig| | I have had zero sucess with the plug it in and wait option, I suspect this is not compatable with the low level sw on shipping freerunners |
| 20:05.41 | ozzloy | i really don't think it's just a dead battery, i keep 1 battery in the bag always. charged, for situations like this |
| 20:05.57 | ozzloy | and the other one was already charged |
| 20:06.23 | ozzloy | i could see the one in the phone being drained, but not both of the others |
| 20:06.31 | Tig| | there might be new versions available but i have not flashed anything lower level than the kernel here and plugging it in and leaving it for over two days does not work :( |
| 20:07.06 | ozzloy | well aux -> power -> boot worked |
| 20:07.15 | Tig| | ozzloy: iirc if you remove the battery and leave it for x hours it will fully reset and do a clean wipe, the exact time is on the wiki |
| 20:07.38 | ozzloy | the fr will reset itself? |
| 20:08.00 | Tig| | if it has zero power ie no battery in |
| 20:08.56 | ozzloy | interesting. it booted into the qtopia extended image i had in there before |
| 20:09.07 | gurugentoo | hehe ok I'm almost done making a calendar for zhone, is there any special format that patches are supposed to be sent in? |
| 20:09.08 | ozzloy | so i don't think that it reset itself |
| 20:09.12 | Tig| | that is all user state data will go, boot loader will still be in so you can still load new software |
| 20:09.39 | Tig| | ozzloy: the exact time is on the wiki somewhere, it is todo with clearing all data |
| 20:09.50 | ozzloy | k |
| 20:09.54 | Tig| | unless I was reading about the gta01 |
| 20:10.07 | Tig| | I am getting very old :( |
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| 20:17.46 | ozzloy | i don't see it. but for now i'm just glad my fr booted cuz i needed to make some phone calls |
| 20:18.56 | rooly|away | snickers |
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| 20:51.00 | nikolajsheller | where can I browse the code for om2008.x? |
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| 20:51.57 | Panke | can anyone play mp3 with qt extended 4.3? |
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| 21:04.23 | zknwin3 | hey all |
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| 21:05.26 | Infoport | hello! I was at Qtopia, and it looks like QTExtended has only been released for gta01, with gta still on Qtopia 4.3.3 -- is this correct? |
| 21:07.10 | Infoport | doh! nevermind...I see it just is at the top, and not in descending order with the rest |
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| 22:39.35 | Kensan | mwester: ping |
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