| 00:00.10 | Mononoke | cries |
| 00:02.49 | *** join/#openmoko pea (n=pea@75.58.4.163) |
| 00:04.52 | ephcon_ | what is the status on power management for the freerunner? |
| 00:10.14 | davo_ | is curious how much tick-less support adds to the battery life |
| 00:12.46 | raster | tickless is AWESOME |
| 00:12.54 | raster | *IF* u get it right |
| 00:12.58 | davo_ | heh |
| 00:13.17 | raster | in fact... tickless should have been done so long ago it's not funny |
| 00:13.29 | davo_ | well |
| 00:13.30 | raster | like back in 0.9xx kernel days |
| 00:13.31 | davo_ | its not easy |
| 00:13.43 | raster | i would have done it to start with |
| 00:13.44 | davo_ | it has obvious benefits |
| 00:13.54 | slaxxin | bear down on it |
| 00:14.01 | davo_ | how much trap handling code do you write on a daily basis? |
| 00:14.01 | davo_ | :D |
| 00:14.14 | davo_ | its also not that big an issue until you go embedded |
| 00:14.27 | davo_ | which is "relatively" recent |
| 00:14.41 | davo_ | granted there are power issues in data centers |
| 00:14.54 | davo_ | but the whole having 500,000 servers all talking to each other |
| 00:15.07 | davo_ | is "comparatively" recent as well |
| 00:15.12 | davo_ | mind you |
| 00:15.18 | davo_ | I'm not knockin' it |
| 00:15.29 | raster | "trap code"? |
| 00:15.51 | mwester | used to trap gophers |
| 00:15.55 | raster | and i'd do it becauser its just the right thing to do |
| 00:16.02 | mwester | We got a nickel for each tail |
| 00:16.05 | davo_ | heh |
| 00:16.09 | mwester | from the local farmers. |
| 00:16.12 | raster | as such resolution of things like select() is tied to tick interval |
| 00:16.23 | raster | if u go tickless resolution is then limited to resolution of the rtc. |
| 00:16.28 | raster | whihc should be better |
| 00:16.29 | raster | :) |
| 00:16.43 | raster | but same |
| 00:16.45 | raster | noit knocking it |
| 00:16.52 | raster | it just should have been done long before now |
| 00:16.52 | raster | :) |
| 00:20.28 | slaxxin | mmmmmmgopher stew |
| 00:21.34 | slaxxin | that sounds like rasters first release,,,,Gopher Stew |
| 00:21.49 | slaxxin | yummy |
| 00:22.24 | slaxxin | ok so its not the first |
| 00:22.59 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@BAA2768.baa.pppool.de) |
| 00:24.47 | raster | hahaha |
| 00:27.22 | mwester | Hrmmmph. You laugh, but if the economy here doesn't get fixed, that's what I'll be eating... :( |
| 00:27.59 | raster | thyats why you're going to pump 700bhillion into it! |
| 00:28.02 | raster | to fix it!@ |
| 00:28.03 | raster | :) |
| 00:28.12 | mwester | was a little nervous this first morning of the new fiscal quarter, when his ssh keys were rejected by the corporate server when he went to check his email. |
| 00:28.19 | davo_ | heh |
| 00:28.45 | raster | mwester: might eb time to look at a new job? |
| 00:29.29 | mwester | Yeah, I got an email from my boss with some internal projects he needs done -- I think he might be trying to tell me something. |
| 00:29.35 | Wonka | getting powertop to run on OM could show places to improve... |
| 00:29.40 | Wonka | (besides tickless) |
| 00:29.48 | mwester | I think powertop does run on it |
| 00:29.51 | davo_ | doesn't arm use tickless? |
| 00:29.54 | mwester | Dunno where a binary is, though. |
| 00:30.04 | davo_ | how does powertop work? |
| 00:30.43 | mwester | davo_: I think it depends on the kernel and chipset; very recent kernels should support tickless, but the hardware support for the GTA02 isn't there yet. |
| 00:30.50 | davo_ | oh |
| 00:30.52 | Wonka | somehow asks the kernel what caused how many wakeups |
| 00:31.07 | raster | mnmmm |
| 00:31.09 | raster | tickless |
| 00:31.14 | raster | then all we need is less polling |
| 00:31.18 | davo_ | Wonka: a bigger issue is axing any apps that do polling |
| 00:31.19 | davo_ | right |
| 00:31.20 | raster | (from userspace) |
| 00:31.30 | davo_ | raster beat me |
| 00:31.32 | mwester | Nothing wrong with polling. |
| 00:31.36 | davo_ | uhm |
| 00:31.38 | raster | there also comes a "poll interval" at which it "doesnt matter" |
| 00:31.41 | raster | eg |
| 00:31.51 | raster | wake up every 5 seconds is in the "who gives a crap" land |
| 00:31.58 | raster | as long as everyone wakes up at the same time! |
| 00:32.04 | raster | ie u synchronise polling |
| 00:32.34 | Wonka | there was stuff added to enable that too |
| 00:33.14 | raster | what stuff? |
| 00:33.25 | mwester | Right - a master task that handles polling and notifies/dispatches other tasks to handle things. Basically that's like moving stuff out of the kernel into user space where policy can be more easily applied. |
| 00:33.29 | Wonka | is "polling" as in select(,,,NULL) considered polling at all? |
| 00:33.44 | raster | like a /sys file u can select on to get a "wake up now and poll" signal from the kernel? |
| 00:34.01 | Wonka | raster: lemme look... |
| 00:34.03 | raster | Wonka: thats not polling |
| 00:34.26 | raster | Wonka: polling is when u select WITH a regular timeout or use sleep() |
| 00:34.37 | Wonka | ok |
| 00:34.48 | raster | if the kernel has a /sys file node to guarantee everyone gets a "poll now" message at the same time - i'll happily throw it into ecore_poller |
| 00:34.50 | Wonka | thats exactly what i wanted to know :) |
| 00:34.52 | raster | which is just for this stuff |
| 00:35.00 | raster | it synchronises all polling within an apps main loop |
| 00:35.17 | raster | it doesnt guarantee resolution or accuracy - just accepts a power-of-2 hint as to "how often" |
| 00:35.31 | raster | ie 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 etc. |
| 00:35.42 | raster | and 1 == 1/8th of a second by default |
| 00:35.52 | raster | though that poller virtual tick interval is configurable |
| 00:35.53 | raster | :) |
| 00:36.12 | raster | \if the kernel provides something similar - i'll happily throw it into the back end |
| 00:36.39 | raster | mwester: i wonder if the central proc should do the polling or simply handle registration of "i want to poll" processes |
| 00:36.48 | raster | and all it does is gather all the procs that say "i want to poll" |
| 00:36.56 | raster | and simply send back to them a "wake up" byte on a socket |
| 00:37.05 | raster | but it sends them all together |
| 00:37.13 | raster | so they all wake up at once |
| 00:37.23 | raster | its not quite as efficient as doing the poll *IN* the poller proc |
| 00:37.31 | raster | but its more flexible.. |
| 00:38.48 | Wonka | raster: this is what i meant: http://lwn.net/Articles/228143/ |
| 00:38.49 | mwester | Do you want them to wake all together, though? Memory and processor contention might be a problem. I would think you might like to have multiple "queues" |
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| 00:39.32 | *** part/#openmoko threedee (n=andre@217.39.7.252) |
| 00:39.43 | raster | mwester: well memory i wouldnt consider an issue - the procs are alive and listening already using ram and likely all ram needed to poll is already set up and used |
| 00:39.59 | raster | yes- cpu might be an issue |
| 00:40.06 | raster | but thats what the scheduler should handle |
| 00:40.36 | raster | i know i was planning on punting off all of e's poling needs intoa central polling process in the bg |
| 00:40.50 | raster | it just gets fed things to do via dlopen()'ed modules |
| 00:41.03 | raster | and about how often to poll |
| 00:41.12 | raster | and it can lower its priority down to lowes pri |
| 00:41.31 | raster | so when it wakes up to poll - if anything else needs cpu it should get pre-empted as its polling tasks are "not essential" |
| 00:42.11 | raster | Wonka: hmm - dont think i want those |
| 00:42.19 | raster | i still want regular wakeups |
| 00:42.21 | raster | BUT |
| 00:42.33 | raster | i want them to be able to shift around to be merged |
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| 00:42.40 | Wonka | ack. |
| 00:42.41 | raster | eg oif u have 3 procs waking up every 2 seconds |
| 00:42.48 | raster | they all still wake up about every 2 secs |
| 00:42.50 | raster | BIUT |
| 00:42.54 | raster | they wake up at the exact same time |
| 00:43.08 | raster | they may wake up in 2.5 or 3 secos |
| 00:43.10 | raster | or 1 sec |
| 00:43.13 | raster | it may vary a bit |
| 00:43.19 | raster | but still - about every sec |
| 00:43.20 | Wonka | you need to shift about two of them by about 2s added up |
| 00:43.22 | raster | err 2 sec |
| 00:43.34 | raster | then apps that poll ever 4 secs - wake upat the same time the 2 sec ones do |
| 00:43.38 | raster | but onyl ever 2nd "tick" |
| 00:43.39 | raster | etc. |
| 00:43.49 | Wonka | and those that wake up every 5s? |
| 00:43.56 | raster | "not allowed" |
| 00:44.00 | raster | rounded down to 4 |
| 00:44.02 | raster | :) |
| 00:44.10 | raster | thats why i adopted power-of-2 for ecore_poller |
| 00:44.16 | raster | then it can collect them together |
| 00:44.16 | Wonka | and do they need to wake up every 2s - wouldn't every 4s be enough? |
| 00:44.29 | raster | thats up to the app and what it is doing |
| 00:44.41 | davo_ | http://www.vergenet.net/~raster/ |
| 00:44.52 | raster | the 2, 4, 8 ,16 sec etc. is a decision by the programmer as to just how often the info may change so a poll is needed |
| 00:44.56 | raster | eg batery life |
| 00:45.25 | raster | but other thigns like wifi signal may need to be polled more often (every second) |
| 00:45.30 | raster | bqttery every 32 sec |
| 00:45.33 | raster | battery |
| 00:45.44 | raster | hopefully power insert/remvoe is an event |
| 00:45.55 | raster | and when u get power insert/remove u do a battery poll then |
| 00:46.03 | raster | in addition to the "every 32 sec" |
| 00:46.12 | raster | u wont get rid of poling i think |
| 00:46.18 | raster | but i can make it more efficient |
| 00:46.40 | raster | tick -> tickless removes a few hundred cpu wakeups a second |
| 00:46.48 | raster | that alone is a MASSIVE imrpovement |
| 00:48.38 | Dave | RASTER |
| 00:48.44 | raster | moo |
| 00:48.49 | Dave | rastermoo |
| 00:48.54 | Dave | Hello to you! |
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| 00:49.25 | raster | moollo |
| 00:50.14 | Dave | heh |
| 00:50.27 | Dave | I think I am going to try to install the illume keyboard on OM2007 tonight. |
| 00:50.34 | balrog-k1n | it shouldn't be a fixed polling period in the first place... |
| 00:50.47 | Dave | Hopefully it doesn't result in epic fail. |
| 00:51.21 | balrog-k1n | if you have apps that want to be alerted when the battery reaches 10% and you're at 60% and it looks like it only decreases 1% per minute.. you can go to sleep for half an hour safely |
| 00:51.53 | raster | balrog-k1n: thats why i refer to it as virtual poller ticks |
| 00:52.06 | raster | and u scheduler a poll job in terms of N ticks where N is a power of 2 |
| 00:52.11 | Dave | oh snaps, are we talking about battery? |
| 00:52.12 | raster | tick is a flexible value |
| 00:52.20 | raster | eg when plugged into pmains power u can decrease it |
| 00:52.25 | raster | when on battery increase |
| 00:52.25 | Dave | is raster attempting to integrate that into his awesome image? |
| 00:52.50 | balrog-k1n | raster: ah, cool |
| 00:52.51 | raster | when the user has gone idle for > 30 sec, increase as well |
| 00:52.52 | raster | etc. |
| 00:53.02 | Dave | What are we increasing here? |
| 00:53.11 | slaxxin | battery life |
| 00:53.11 | raster | so surew |
| 00:53.13 | raster | u still wake up |
| 00:53.16 | balrog-k1n | that's quite smart |
| 00:53.22 | raster | but 1. u collect wakeups to all happen at the same time |
| 00:53.41 | raster | 2. u can force those wakeups to become heavily extended |
| 00:53.53 | Dave | raster, does it wake up successfully? |
| 00:53.58 | raster | right now for example my poll "tick" is 1/8th of a sec |
| 00:54.07 | raster | so u ask for a "4" u get 0.5 secs between polls |
| 00:54.13 | balrog-k1n | yeah, i hear they are discussing a similar idea for reducing wake-ups under linux in general |
| 00:54.15 | raster | but that 1/8th of a sec is globally changable |
| 00:54.34 | balrog-k1n | so that if there are 10 processes waiting in select().. their wakeups are groupped |
| 00:54.42 | raster | but this is definitely for non-critical polling tasks |
| 00:54.45 | raster | eg |
| 00:54.49 | raster | read battery level |
| 00:54.53 | raster | or get wifi signal strength |
| 00:54.57 | raster | or get gsm strenth |
| 00:54.58 | raster | etc. |
| 00:55.03 | Dave | sounds good |
| 00:55.07 | raster | anything where there is no way to get an interrupt/signal from the device |
| 00:55.32 | raster | of course if the device offers the ability to interrupt u if signal changes > 1% or battery etc etc. |
| 00:55.33 | raster | use that |
| 00:55.34 | Wonka | mh. wifi signal strength should be possible |
| 00:55.41 | raster | balrog-k1n: and yes. |
| 00:55.42 | Dave | Hello WOnka! |
| 00:55.50 | raster | the problem is - right now i have this internal to a process |
| 00:55.51 | Wonka | can only be measured when a packet comes in |
| 00:55.59 | Wonka | and that causes an interrupt |
| 00:56.17 | raster | within the mainloop it will group wakeup polls together and use the virtual tick to know how long the sleep interval is betwene poll wakeups |
| 00:56.24 | raster | it doesnt extend outside the proc |
| 00:56.28 | Wonka | gsm strength change does cause something to libgsm-thingie... is that one polling? |
| 00:56.31 | raster | we n4eed to be able to extend outside of a proc |
| 00:56.32 | balrog-k1n | ah |
| 00:56.36 | raster | it should be fairly easy though |
| 00:56.39 | raster | to do |
| 00:56.43 | mwester | is an idiot. sigh. |
| 00:56.46 | raster | we could use dbus |
| 00:56.54 | raster | but that may be overkill |
| 00:57.14 | raster | i was pondering a simple unix socket |
| 00:57.16 | Dave | MWESTER |
| 00:57.18 | raster | and a simple process |
| 00:57.23 | raster | handles client unix socket connects |
| 00:57.28 | mwester | copies the correct kernel in place, and decides to pay more attention to what he's doing instead of reading IRC :D |
| 00:57.42 | Dave | But we like you, Mwester!! :) |
| 00:57.45 | Wonka | org.fso.poll.2s? |
| 00:57.49 | mwester | raster: semaphore? |
| 00:57.49 | raster | client writes a "word" (int) that basically says "me - this client, i want to be woken up every 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc. ticks" |
| 00:57.54 | Dave | hehe |
| 00:58.03 | raster | then client simply waits for a byte to be written to it down the socket as a wakeup |
| 00:58.07 | Dave | 2, 4, 6, 8, who will we assassinate? |
| 00:58.09 | raster | dameon can collect it all together trivially |
| 00:58.16 | Dave | nominates Sean :P |
| 00:58.18 | mwester | Just have a bank of semaphores, one for each power of two, and let client wait on the correct one. |
| 00:58.29 | raster | mwester: how do u indicate poll interval? |
| 00:58.37 | Dave | take 'em to the bank! |
| 00:58.43 | raster | mwester: doesnt work well with select() loops |
| 00:58.48 | raster | which is what most apps use |
| 00:58.56 | Dave | poll() ? |
| 00:59.01 | raster | if its not an fd - u create trouble |
| 00:59.01 | Wonka | mwester: isnt the point of semaphores that only one client is waked for every signal? |
| 00:59.16 | Dave | Raster, why wouldn't it be an fd? |
| 00:59.19 | mwester | Wonka: Yes, but you can let them all loose too. |
| 00:59.20 | *** join/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@astound-69-42-18-131.ca.astound.net) |
| 00:59.25 | Dave | waves to Torikun |
| 00:59.30 | mwester | raster: good point about select() |
| 00:59.32 | Dave | Mwester, that sounds naughty. |
| 00:59.36 | raster | Dave: i'm proposing an fd-based soln |
| 00:59.42 | raster | semaphores indeed are leaner |
| 00:59.51 | Dave | File Descriptors Gone Wild? |
| 00:59.52 | raster | but will be nasty for everyone in their select()'s |
| 01:00.04 | raster | unless someoen has a better idea? |
| 01:00.06 | mwester | has been doing a git bisect to find a bad patch, but didn't pay attention and has been copying the same kernel to the FR after each bisect... sigh... |
| 01:00.09 | Wonka | anyway. i'll hit the sack now. |
| 01:00.14 | raster | i could whip up a daemon like this in an hour |
| 01:00.19 | raster | including full autofoo tree |
| 01:00.21 | Dave | Mwester - oops? |
| 01:00.21 | Wonka | mwester: ouch. |
| 01:00.28 | raster | i could also throw in a dbus interface too for free? |
| 01:00.46 | mwester | dbus is hardly free! :D |
| 01:00.52 | Dave | Raster - hooray! |
| 01:00.56 | Torikun | yo |
| 01:00.56 | raster | in fact |
| 01:00.57 | Dave | Free is always good! |
| 01:01.01 | raster | i could add it to wake |
| 01:01.08 | Dave | Unless it's more shitty icons from Xora :P |
| 01:01.09 | raster | it already is an "at" replacement |
| 01:01.16 | Dave | oh, is this all part of waked? |
| 01:01.27 | raster | inteded to exec jobs at second-interval accuracy as well as set the rtc to wake up from suspend to run the jobs |
| 01:01.41 | mwester | I think if you want dbus, you should have a task that waits using the polling mechanism and sends the dbus message itself, rather than have the poller do that. |
| 01:01.46 | raster | i can add a uni socket for "simple apps" and a dbus interface as well |
| 01:02.12 | raster | mwester: why? |
| 01:02.34 | mwester | dbus is rather heavyweight for sub-second polling, no? |
| 01:02.39 | raster | (curious. i dont see why it cant just be the same thing)? |
| 01:02.52 | raster | mwester: yes |
| 01:02.56 | raster | in which case dont use the dbus api |
| 01:02.58 | raster | use the unix socket |
| 01:03.08 | mwester | ok |
| 01:03.08 | raster | the same proc will OFFER both interfaces |
| 01:03.19 | raster | if no one uses the dbus one - it end sup not doing anything |
| 01:03.22 | raster | ends |
| 01:03.24 | raster | up |
| 01:03.35 | Dave | down |
| 01:03.40 | raster | only problem is its a session-based service |
| 01:03.42 | raster | not system |
| 01:03.51 | mwester | Ok, so it won't just be broadcasting poll messages every 1/8 th of a second then. |
| 01:03.54 | Dave | isn't that rather taxing? |
| 01:03.59 | raster | oh hell no |
| 01:04.15 | raster | with the unix socket i knows what client is connected |
| 01:04.27 | raster | and knwos client X wants to be woken up every N poll intervals |
| 01:04.36 | raster | it only wakes up at the minimum interval |
| 01:04.46 | raster | eg if the most frequent poll is 1 sec |
| 01:04.49 | raster | then every sec it wakes up |
| 01:04.58 | Dave | Ah |
| 01:05.08 | raster | but it will ONLY send the "hey wakeup" byte to the client(s) that want to be woken every second |
| 01:05.17 | raster | so only procs that need waking get a wake |
| 01:05.32 | raster | the waker only wakes up exactly as often as needed |
| 01:05.37 | raster | no more |
| 01:06.01 | raster | i need a way to dettect wake from suspend actuallyu |
| 01:06.21 | raster | though i despise suspend... |
| 01:06.31 | raster | much prefers the zero-clock thing omap does.... |
| 01:06.45 | Dave | pictures raster's walls covered in his crazy program flow and application design ideas (perhaps the kitchen walls house his UI designs?) |
| 01:07.00 | raster | dfav i dont use paper |
| 01:07.04 | raster | or write on walls |
| 01:07.14 | mwester | They make 4x8 sheets of panelling made from that whiteboard material. |
| 01:07.14 | raster | i actually just do it in my head |
| 01:07.15 | Dave | Well, aren't we brilliant :) |
| 01:07.19 | Dave | Aha! |
| 01:07.23 | Dave | That explains a lot, raster ;) |
| 01:07.27 | raster | i hate paper |
| 01:07.29 | raster | and pens |
| 01:07.32 | raster | such a mess |
| 01:07.35 | Dave | No wonder you're slightly ... uhh... crazy? :) |
| 01:07.43 | slaxxin | hay |
| 01:07.47 | raster | i tend to keep most of my stuff in my head |
| 01:08.00 | Dave | Does it ever become too much? |
| 01:08.19 | cjb | I don't use paper either. I type faster than I can write. |
| 01:08.23 | Dave | I guess you just let a bunch of it ooze out here into the channel, one globby bit at a time :) |
| 01:08.26 | raster | sometimes |
| 01:08.34 | Dave | cjb, whiteboard, on occasion? ;) |
| 01:08.40 | Dave | raster, don't worry, we appreciate it :) |
| 01:08.46 | cjb | rare occasion |
| 01:08.52 | Dave | bah :P |
| 01:08.54 | raster | its good training for the brain |
| 01:08.57 | raster | i dont take notes in meetings |
| 01:09.01 | raster | i just remember stuff |
| 01:09.09 | Dave | He's a woman! |
| 01:09.17 | raster | i also tend to not do the "i will need to check and get back to you" much in meetings |
| 01:09.18 | zash | raster: i used to do that to |
| 01:09.26 | raster | as i generally can answer immediately from the top of my head |
| 01:09.31 | raster | so it is helpful. |
| 01:09.37 | zash | back in the days |
| 01:09.44 | raster | but yes - sometimes its to omuch |
| 01:09.52 | raster | some things fall through the cracks |
| 01:09.52 | zash | but then the tierdness came |
| 01:10.03 | raster | zash: more coke! |
| 01:10.03 | raster | :) |
| 01:10.11 | zash | :D |
| 01:10.33 | zash | the tierdness and boredoom of DOOM! |
| 01:10.49 | mwester | How can you get bored of Doom? |
| 01:11.23 | zash | .. iduno |
| 01:12.26 | Dave | zash :o |
| 01:12.56 | Dave | sometimes things fall through the cracks? |
| 01:13.00 | Dave | isn't that what the wife's for? ;) |
| 01:14.48 | Wonka | zash: "iduno" will not work. try "iddqd" and "idkfa" |
| 01:15.26 | zash | my brain hurts! |
| 01:15.50 | zash | ok, wth |
| 01:15.53 | zash | perl is weird |
| 01:16.02 | Wonka | perl rocks |
| 01:16.07 | Wonka | ruby rocks too |
| 01:16.16 | Dave | use perl; |
| 01:16.16 | Wonka | but some things should be renamed |
| 01:16.19 | Dave | roflcopters |
| 01:16.23 | Wonka | use strict; |
| 01:16.28 | Dave | Has anyone ever noticed cellphones look retarded? |
| 01:16.32 | Wonka | no php; |
| 01:16.38 | zash | ruby is nice, i need to learn more perl |
| 01:16.47 | zash | Dave: they do? |
| 01:16.52 | Wonka | collect should be renamed to map |
| 01:17.33 | Dave | dude this one looks like a widget |
| 01:17.33 | Dave | this other one is a calculator ripoff |
| 01:17.45 | Dave | oh and the widget one looks more like a stopwatch |
| 01:17.49 | *** join/#openmoko palichis (n=palichis@190.154.61.251) |
| 01:17.55 | zash | Wonka: collects makes more sence |
| 01:18.17 | zash | do stuff to an array, and collect the results |
| 01:18.57 | zash | might be damaged by learning ruby before perl |
| 01:19.08 | Wonka | zash: but every it's named map |
| 01:19.12 | Wonka | zash: perl, haskell, ... |
| 01:19.19 | Wonka | everywhere else |
| 01:19.20 | Wonka | i meant |
| 01:19.31 | Wonka | <- too tired |
| 01:19.40 | Wonka | should really leave now. |
| 01:19.45 | Wonka | cu |
| 01:19.47 | Dave | haha this one looks like an ipod |
| 01:19.51 | Dave | but on steroids |
| 01:21.20 | *** join/#openmoko Quadduc (n=quadduc@216-145-97.211110.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 01:21.38 | johngay | Hey Dave. |
| 01:22.52 | zash | IPODS ON STEROIDS! |
| 01:23.08 | zash | http://www.robertopiecollection.com/Application/Images/Teleph/746-RED-lg.jpg |
| 01:23.18 | zash | apple ripped of that |
| 01:25.48 | johngay | What are people running on their FRs these days? |
| 01:31.15 | mwester | "This is very bad. Enlightenment SEGV'd. This is not meant to happen and is likely a sign of a bug in Enlightenment..." |
| 01:31.28 | mwester | Raster, did you do that?!? :p |
| 01:31.40 | raster | do what? |
| 01:31.43 | kgoetz | mwester: the bit i love is whn everything keeps working after ;0 |
| 01:31.50 | mwester | Now I need to find the F1 key on my Neo. |
| 01:32.00 | mwester | Ooh, it just did it again. |
| 01:32.06 | raster | just press the button |
| 01:32.13 | raster | (the touchscreen works) |
| 01:32.23 | raster | its e's segv handler |
| 01:32.32 | raster | e doesnt like to segv rudely on you |
| 01:32.43 | raster | it likes to politely inform you of its intention to segv |
| 01:32.52 | mwester | Of course, F2 is not so useful on the neo :) |
| 01:33.00 | raster | letting you go off to a console and attach gdb and see whats up |
| 01:33.06 | raster | or just say "fuck it" and hit restart |
| 01:33.06 | raster | :) |
| 01:33.11 | raster | u dont need f2 |
| 01:33.14 | raster | just press the button |
| 01:33.15 | mwester | I broke something. |
| 01:33.31 | raster | if it keeps happening u've likely done something bizarre |
| 01:33.41 | raster | as such i know of only 1 segv right now |
| 01:33.44 | raster | and thats on shutdown |
| 01:33.50 | mwester | yeah, the buttons onscreen work fine; it's just in an endless loop. I just suspended and resumed FSO |
| 01:33.57 | mwester | Let me reboot and try that again. |
| 01:33.58 | raster | (only happens when i do a halt/shutdown of the device) |
| 01:34.20 | raster | what exactly causes the segv is a matter for debuging and gdb time |
| 01:36.06 | mwester | Which is rather hard to do, I would imagine, if the device is in the process of shutting down! |
| 01:36.12 | raster | but whatever image u are running likely has older code |
| 01:36.19 | raster | so i cant really say |
| 01:36.25 | raster | yeah |
| 01:36.30 | raster | so i havent tracked that one down yet |
| 01:36.34 | raster | but its not a high priority :) |
| 01:36.36 | mwester | Oh yeah, really old -- it's just a test userspace so I can check out patches and such. |
| 01:37.48 | raster | aaaah |
| 01:37.54 | raster | in that case.. not a lot i can do to help :( |
| 01:38.20 | *** join/#openmoko ephcon_ (n=ephcon@student167-250.hampshire.edu) |
| 01:40.14 | johngay | raster, what's your latest image like? |
| 01:40.43 | Dave | sexy? |
| 01:41.21 | Dave | Fuck, and iphone is $800-1000... shit |
| 01:41.33 | davo_ | Dave? |
| 01:41.35 | davo_ | where? |
| 01:41.41 | johngay | I'm still runnung 2007.2 'cause it does everything I need ATM. I've got FSO on my SD, but I can't even add contacts with it )-: |
| 01:41.51 | davo_ | if you take all the extra AT&T crap in to account, perhaps |
| 01:42.05 | Dave | No |
| 01:42.08 | Dave | CDMA |
| 01:42.20 | Dave | Jongay, yeah, so am I |
| 01:42.22 | Dave | it's awesome |
| 01:42.31 | raster | johngay: its a collection of software build using OE that happens to run on a freerunner... |
| 01:42.32 | raster | :) |
| 01:43.00 | raster | davo_: apply hk is sellting iphones unlocked for about %720 |
| 01:43.01 | raster | err |
| 01:43.03 | raster | $720 |
| 01:43.07 | davo_ | oh |
| 01:43.09 | raster | thats more like the "full price" |
| 01:43.12 | davo_ | right |
| 01:43.14 | johngay | But how is it for daily use? |
| 01:43.17 | raster | ie at&t hasnt subsidised it |
| 01:43.24 | raster | whihc is about ballpark for smartphones |
| 01:43.34 | raster | johngay: doesnt have anything for daily use |
| 01:43.35 | davo_ | well its not so much subsidy as hiding it in the contract |
| 01:43.39 | raster | its pretty bare bones |
| 01:43.59 | raster | davo_: no such thing as a free lunch. subsidies are not free |
| 01:44.00 | Dave | cheap |
| 01:44.03 | davo_ | the IPhone also has 3G + larger display (albeit lower res) + H.264 decode |
| 01:44.06 | Dave | Raster, I buy from Japan |
| 01:44.11 | raster | someon pays.. somewhere. it coems back to haunt u sooner or later |
| 01:44.12 | davo_ | TANSTAAFL |
| 01:44.13 | Dave | So perhaps it's more expensive |
| 01:44.15 | davo_ | lol |
| 01:44.19 | davo_ | no need to tell me that |
| 01:44.25 | davo_ | I was just debating the term |
| 01:44.34 | Dave | and yeah, retail price |
| 01:44.37 | davo_ | I would use the euphemism "amortize" |
| 01:44.39 | Dave | not cheap, off the boat shit |
| 01:44.42 | johngay | Guess I'll stick with 2007 for a while still. |
| 01:44.48 | Dave | davo ;) |
| 01:44.50 | Dave | Johngay, yeah |
| 01:45.02 | Dave | Johngay, I'm attempting to get the illume kbd working on 2007 at the moment :) |
| 01:45.12 | Dave | If it works, it'll make it that much more awesome and usuable. |
| 01:45.21 | Dave | (over that of all the other distros out there, for a while longer) |
| 01:46.51 | johngay | Well, I still want to get Apples BT Keyboard for mine. |
| 01:47.27 | raster | Dave: sure... guess subsidy isnt the right word... "loan" might be better |
| 01:47.28 | raster | "_ |
| 01:47.34 | slaxxin | its heavy glass is it not? |
| 01:47.45 | Dave | hehe |
| 01:47.57 | Dave | heavy glass? |
| 01:48.08 | slaxxin | the apple BT keyboard |
| 01:48.23 | johngay | You talkin' about the Apple keyboard, no, it's brushed aluminum, I think. |
| 01:48.32 | *** join/#openmoko arquebus (n=shintaro@201.148.61.215) |
| 01:49.09 | slaxxin | i say one at best buy that looked like brusheb alum.. but was glass |
| 01:49.10 | Dave | jUST LIKE ALL THEIR OTHER FLIMSY CRAP! |
| 01:49.20 | Dave | a glass keyboard? |
| 01:49.30 | Dave | sounds like even more epic fail than usual, from apple. |
| 01:49.36 | johngay | Better than a glass hammer (-; |
| 01:49.36 | slaxxin | it was very nice |
| 01:49.47 | davo_ | caresses his iPhone and glares at Dave |
| 01:50.02 | raster | ipoon |
| 01:50.07 | Dave | dude |
| 01:50.09 | davo_ | iPwn? |
| 01:50.09 | Dave | haha |
| 01:50.13 | johngay | At only $80, it's pretty nicely priced, for Apple too. |
| 01:50.20 | Dave | apple makes cheap crap. |
| 01:50.26 | Dave | What's surprising? |
| 01:50.50 | mwester | has a hand-me-down iPod he was given to fix. Two of them even. |
| 01:51.03 | Dave | "fix" |
| 01:51.04 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 01:51.08 | Dave | as in, bob barker style? |
| 01:51.12 | mwester | The first one was named "Poddy", so I had to name the second one "Porda". |
| 01:51.29 | swc|666 | lol |
| 01:52.02 | raster | woot |
| 01:52.02 | Dave | Where's porny? |
| 01:52.02 | johngay | I booked my skydive today (-= |
| 01:52.05 | Dave | or is that one yet to come? |
| 01:52.06 | raster | senate passed bailout |
| 01:52.13 | Dave | Johngay, cool, can we push you out of a plane? |
| 01:52.28 | mwester | Eh, won't help me much, personally. |
| 01:52.35 | Dave | haha |
| 01:52.47 | raster | awaits his treo650 |
| 01:52.50 | johngay | I'm sorry Dave. You know I can not let you do that. |
| 01:53.07 | mwester | Somebody teach the american car companies how to build something someone want to drive, and the economy here might pick up a bit. |
| 01:53.16 | raster | t last.. another plat5form to throw illume onto... |
| 01:53.24 | Dave | I'm sorry John, you know I'm going to stab you in the face now. |
| 01:53.35 | *** join/#openmoko FxChiP (n=FxChiP@76.209.86.11) |
| 01:53.44 | Dave | uh oh, it's Fxchip! |
| 01:53.44 | mwester | I booted the zaurus image, or whatever that is, on my 650 last night -- rather cool. |
| 01:53.55 | mwester | But what is that funny looking dinosaur on the screen? |
| 01:54.04 | davo_ | mwester: they *wanted* to drive SUVs and trucks :-/ |
| 01:54.06 | Dave | FxChip, you're late, we're already dissing apple, and their cheap products, and poorly chosen service alliances. |
| 01:54.37 | davo_ | Dave is preparing to be burned at the stake for heresy |
| 01:54.43 | johngay | We knew the senate was going to pass it, they wrote it. It's the house that needs to shoot it down again. |
| 01:54.54 | FxChiP | fun |
| 01:55.09 | FxChiP | I hope the House shoots it down again |
| 01:55.13 | FxChiP | But apparently the Senate threw in some incentives |
| 01:55.13 | raster | mwester: opie i think |
| 01:55.24 | raster | mwester: don't worry. i'll brew u some 650 magic when i get mine |
| 01:55.26 | raster | :) |
| 01:55.29 | Dave | Davo, if anything, YOU are the blasphemer here. Bring your fucking iPhone into #openmoko ! |
| 01:55.33 | mwester | Anyway, I shall not grouse about things too much, I have my toys, and if the worst happens, I'll just have much more time to work on Om stuff ;) |
| 01:55.37 | johngay | I say let the American Dollar go the way of the rubble |
| 01:55.43 | FxChiP | has an iPhone |
| 01:56.00 | Dave | Johngay, I take it you'll be dropping over cuba then, eh? |
| 01:56.01 | davo_ | rouble? |
| 01:56.05 | Dave | ;) |
| 01:56.08 | *** join/#openmoko threedee (n=andre@217.39.7.252) |
| 01:56.09 | Dave | davo, haha |
| 01:56.16 | Dave | either one, I suppose :P |
| 01:56.18 | raster | mwester: u can always get another job |
| 01:56.19 | raster | :) |
| 01:56.27 | johngay | I'll just go back to Ireland. The Euro is still strong. |
| 01:56.28 | Dave | raster, you offering? ;) |
| 01:56.34 | raster | mwester: who knows.. i might be hiring soon... |
| 01:56.37 | Dave | The currency is strong with this one! |
| 01:56.45 | Dave | Raster, where do we sign up? :) |
| 01:56.45 | mwester | I can. I'm just tired of the two year here, two years there thing. |
| 01:56.58 | Dave | Mwester, it's rough :\ |
| 01:57.00 | raster | hahahaha |
| 01:57.20 | johngay | Intel is still holding my job there for me. |
| 01:57.39 | Dave | heh heh |
| 01:58.24 | johngay | I was makin' twice what I make here, but now it's more like 4 times since the dollar crashed. |
| 01:58.37 | raster | got more phones efl is going onto |
| 01:58.55 | mwester | So what's funny is that now that my customer business has dried up for the short term, the assignment I got from my boss is entirely in... java. Gack! |
| 01:59.10 | raster | in major manufacturers |
| 01:59.30 | raster | mwester: GAAAACK! quit now! before it gets worse! |
| 01:59.37 | mwester | hehe! |
| 01:59.55 | mwester | The irony is rich indeed. |
| 01:59.59 | johngay | But everyone codes in java now. Just ask Sun (-; |
| 02:00.07 | Dave | huzzah! |
| 02:00.13 | raster | slaps johngay with a trout |
| 02:00.16 | mwester | My customers are all embedded, C and c++ -- automotive and medical. |
| 02:00.25 | Dave | WHAT ARE YOU DOING THEN!? |
| 02:00.31 | mwester | Right now? |
| 02:00.34 | Dave | JAVA? |
| 02:00.35 | mwester | I'm learning Java. |
| 02:00.36 | Dave | What? |
| 02:00.43 | Dave | Hahahahahahahahahaha |
| 02:00.48 | zash | javaids |
| 02:00.49 | Dave | hands Mwester the red pill |
| 02:00.52 | mwester | hehe! |
| 02:01.23 | raster | mwester: do you want us to put you down? |
| 02:01.24 | mwester | Android, here I come! |
| 02:01.28 | raster | it will be less painful... |
| 02:02.06 | Dave | haha |
| 02:02.09 | Dave | Traitor :P |
| 02:02.48 | mwester | I'm too stubborn for that! The good thing is that I get to pick my internal project -- so it has occurred to me that perhaps I can figure out how to write something on a phone stack. |
| 02:03.57 | johngay | I guess You'll be getting the new G1, mwester? |
| 02:04.05 | Dave | hehe |
| 02:04.13 | mwester | Ooh, I wonder if I can get my boss to spring for that? |
| 02:04.29 | *** join/#openmoko aliases143 (n=alias@203-158-54-192.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 02:04.32 | johngay | Tell him you need ot for testing on. |
| 02:05.01 | mwester | I'm afraid he'll probably send me one of the company-standard blackberries instead, though. |
| 02:05.30 | mwester | I'll send it back to him with FSO on it... |
| 02:05.30 | johngay | It's also half the price of the FR. You just need to open a google account and T-Mobile contract. |
| 02:06.10 | johngay | Stay away from the crackberries!! |
| 02:06.14 | raster | not half the price |
| 02:06.20 | raster | bet its close to double |
| 02:06.20 | Dave | CRACK |
| 02:06.34 | raster | u havent accounted for the load t1 gives u |
| 02:06.35 | Dave | wester, hahaha |
| 02:06.36 | Dave | >:) |
| 02:06.43 | mwester | I sent the crackberry back after my new-hire training class; I paid for my own Treo instead. |
| 02:06.54 | Dave | slick |
| 02:07.10 | raster | mwester: nice. |
| 02:07.27 | raster | mwester: btw - how was the boot into linux on the treo? |
| 02:07.29 | johngay | $179. |
| 02:07.35 | raster | as i understand it u just stick kernel + root image on sd |
| 02:07.42 | raster | use cocboot (set it up to boot the right image names) |
| 02:07.45 | mwester | The blackberry model scared me more than the closed phones do -- basically you get a pseudo-open phone, but it is remotely controlled and administered by your IT department -- Yikes! |
| 02:07.47 | raster | and away u go |
| 02:07.52 | Dave | whee |
| 02:07.54 | raster | reset the phone to get back to palmos? |
| 02:07.57 | mwester | raster - it was a breeze to boot it up. |
| 02:08.06 | raster | cool |
| 02:08.13 | mwester | Simplest, easiest Linux install I've ever done on a device. |
| 02:08.15 | raster | so its as easy as it seems? |
| 02:08.24 | Dave | :D |
| 02:08.27 | raster | palmos - AWESOME bootloader |
| 02:08.27 | mwester | Yep. We need to do that for the FR. |
| 02:08.28 | raster | :) |
| 02:08.30 | mwester | Seriouslly |
| 02:08.44 | johngay | My friend got a trio, then he put WinCE on it !?!?!?!? |
| 02:08.55 | Dave | ROFL |
| 02:09.01 | Dave | To... make it better... !?!? |
| 02:09.13 | mwester | We need a basic loader in flash, the SD card needs to be standard FAT32, the rootfs needs to be a file along with the kernel -- something so that the mass market users feel really comfortable with it. |
| 02:09.23 | johngay | So he could get his Outlook E-Mails on it. |
| 02:09.33 | Dave | That sounds like a terrible excuse |
| 02:09.34 | raster | mwester: we talked of this already @ om for gta04 |
| 02:09.48 | raster | andy etc. wanted an ext2 fs on sd |
| 02:09.59 | raster | i was much mroe inclined to fat32 + kernel image file and ext2 image file |
| 02:10.09 | raster | with the base fat32 also mounted |
| 02:10.17 | Dave | Raster, why don't they ever listen to real people? |
| 02:10.28 | johngay | Isn't there a way to cat the kernel and rootfs? |
| 02:10.30 | Dave | too much blind design |
| 02:10.42 | mwester | Yep. I have now seen that work raster, and I'm now a believer. |
| 02:10.46 | raster | (so if u put it in your pc all "data" files like photos, sms's, emails, etc. are sotred on the fta32 mount, and the ext2 image is only for instaleld software and ~/ for dot-files etc.) |
| 02:11.06 | raster | mwester: i was already a believer |
| 02:11.13 | raster | at first OS on sd was a bit of a "wtf" |
| 02:11.17 | raster | but i've warmed to it |
| 02:11.20 | raster | heavily |
| 02:11.26 | mwester | I confess that I was one of the ones who thought ext3 on the sd card was the rigth way... |
| 02:11.36 | raster | ALL i think is needed is to esnure a very fast SDIO interface |
| 02:11.44 | raster | ie now its criticval path |
| 02:12.03 | mwester | well, reliable would be nice too; we seem to have had some regressions in that area since the GPS SD clock fix came in. |
| 02:12.07 | *** part/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@astound-69-42-18-131.ca.astound.net) |
| 02:12.10 | raster | the ext2/3 image file shoudl eman symlinks and normal unix fs stuff works |
| 02:12.17 | raster | for root and packages and for ~/ |
| 02:12.36 | raster | and just make symlinks from ~/Data th the fat32 mount point |
| 02:12.37 | mwester | It is easy to make it so for community releases. |
| 02:12.38 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-69-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:12.47 | raster | (well create a data dir on the fat32 and munt that) |
| 02:12.52 | raster | and put all "normal day to day" data there |
| 02:12.56 | raster | so its accessible on all pc's |
| 02:12.59 | raster | all os's |
| 02:13.00 | raster | everywhere |
| 02:13.09 | raster | u dont need linux to "Reflash" |
| 02:13.16 | raster | just put a new kernel and os image file on |
| 02:13.20 | raster | trivial to pack u |
| 02:13.24 | raster | (just zip the stuff up) |
| 02:13.30 | raster | err back up |
| 02:13.37 | raster | and all the day to day data |
| 02:13.40 | raster | like .txt notes |
| 02:13.45 | raster | photos, messages |
| 02:13.50 | raster | are acessible files for all os's |
| 02:13.58 | raster | u will pay a price for a ext2 loopback on fat |
| 02:14.01 | raster | but it should be small |
| 02:14.08 | mwester | Very small I think. |
| 02:14.10 | raster | compared to the slow speed of sdio.... its nothing |
| 02:14.19 | mwester | FAT is such a simple fs. |
| 02:14.21 | raster | as it is on fr |
| 02:14.30 | raster | sdio and flash speed are pretty much the same |
| 02:14.41 | raster | i think in theory flash shouldbe much faster |
| 02:14.42 | raster | but its not |
| 02:14.52 | raster | also u remvoe jffs2 complexity and overhead |
| 02:14.57 | raster | thats good |
| 02:15.03 | raster | but i'm with you |
| 02:15.12 | arquebus | anyone know if Nokia's maemo.org mobile linux OS is compatible with openmoko? |
| 02:15.20 | raster | arquebus: no. |
| 02:15.25 | raster | try mamona |
| 02:15.27 | raster | its closer |
| 02:15.31 | arquebus | raster, ok, thx |
| 02:15.34 | mwester | arquebus: different ARM versions |
| 02:15.50 | arquebus | mwester-ah ok, didnt know |
| 02:15.51 | raster | different packaging systems |
| 02:15.55 | raster | different distribution |
| 02:15.57 | raster | ... |
| 02:16.24 | Dave | It's not rasterOS, that's for sure :) |
| 02:16.33 | raster | mwester: definitely with u on the "os on sd card with fat32 fs and everything is either a kernel image file, a rootfs ext2/3 image and data files" |
| 02:17.32 | slaxxin | http://doc.trolltech.com/qtextended4.4/index.html |
| 02:18.24 | Dave | yeah yeah |
| 02:18.26 | Dave | we know, we know |
| 02:18.52 | raster | Dave: that reminds me. i should build images for the n8xx too... |
| 02:19.07 | Dave | That sounds great! |
| 02:19.22 | Dave | I only have an N95 :| |
| 02:20.11 | FxChiP | http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/10/thursdays-copyr.html |
| 02:21.10 | Dave | Hmm? |
| 02:21.15 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03rod 07fso-makefile * ra76501635024 10/Makefile: Use the org.openembedded.dev branch from the org.openembedded.dev trial git repo |
| 02:21.50 | Dave | ugggh |
| 02:21.56 | Dave | FUCK YOU, UDEV! |
| 02:22.25 | FxChiP | udev has ridiculousness everywhere |
| 02:22.31 | FxChiP | damn good system though |
| 02:22.58 | FxChiP | I just wish the rules language didn't suck so hard |
| 02:23.09 | mwester | It should be written in Perl. |
| 02:23.13 | mwester | ;) |
| 02:23.32 | FxChiP | so that the rules language can be completely un-understandable? |
| 02:23.37 | FxChiP | sorry for the repeat |
| 02:23.37 | FxChiP | but |
| 02:23.38 | FxChiP | nothx |
| 02:23.45 | mwester | It bore repeating. |
| 02:24.16 | Dave | I'm still baffled. |
| 02:24.17 | mwester | As an old co-worker told me, "if it was hard to write the code, doggone it it should be hard to read!" |
| 02:24.31 | FxChiP | as my common sense tells me, "that is bullshit." |
| 02:24.32 | raster | HAHAHAHAH |
| 02:24.42 | mwester | He also used vi. And claimed that a GUI and a mouse was for "feeble minds". |
| 02:24.55 | mwester | He was a hoot, though. |
| 02:25.24 | *** part/#openmoko arquebus (n=shintaro@201.148.61.215) |
| 02:25.45 | FxChiP | He's an idiot |
| 02:25.49 | mwester | Actually, Python would be pretty cool, but I just can't get over the throw-back to column-sensitivity a la FORTRAN from 1821 or so. |
| 02:25.55 | FxChiP | Who doesn't grasp the concept of multiple paradigms |
| 02:26.04 | FxChiP | Column-sensitivity? |
| 02:26.14 | Dave | EBCDIC? |
| 02:26.24 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 02:26.26 | mwester | remembers punched cards, and EBCDIC. |
| 02:26.27 | Dave | busts out his s390 |
| 02:26.30 | Dave | \o/ |
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| 02:36.28 | Dave | aww, what happened to the raster debate. |
| 02:38.18 | FxChiP | What's wrong with raster? |
| 02:38.30 | FxChiP | raster's a pretty cool guy, eh codes enlightenment and doesn't afraid of anything |
| 02:38.33 | raster | debate? |
| 02:39.04 | johngay | nite, all. |
| 02:40.09 | zash | webapps written in brainfuck! |
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| 02:44.18 | Dave | rofl |
| 02:46.51 | parodyoflanguage | raster: Yeah, you're going to debate Sarah Palin tomorrow. |
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| 02:49.59 | Dave | uhh |
| 02:51.39 | ieatlint | i knew it, raster is joe biden |
| 02:52.15 | parodyoflanguage | Oh, he's not running for vice-president? It's these speeches, I'm telling you. Blowing my mind. |
| 02:54.20 | ieatlint | is it difficult working with a secret muslim? |
| 02:58.29 | raster | parodyoflanguage: debate that stupid wench? fuck yeah! bring it on! |
| 02:58.30 | raster | :) |
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| 03:01.58 | ieatlint | this has been an odd political year, heh |
| 03:02.20 | parodyoflanguage | raster: Heh :) |
| 03:02.44 | parodyoflanguage | raster: I'm gonna watch this debate for entertainment value. She's come across as a bimbo so far when she's been interviews. |
| 03:02.59 | parodyoflanguage | "So what periodicals do you read?" "All of them!" |
| 03:03.18 | ieatlint | how about the russia thing? :) |
| 03:03.23 | ieatlint | "you can see russia from alaska!" |
| 03:03.39 | ieatlint | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:03.41 | parodyoflanguage | ieatlint: I didn't see that one. Wasn't that on Saturday Night Live though? |
| 03:04.12 | ieatlint | yes, but SNL didn't really have to change what she said in real life |
| 03:04.21 | parodyoflanguage | ah |
| 03:04.42 | raster | parodyoflanguage: man - i know more about the usa, its newspapers, politics and geography than she does! |
| 03:04.50 | raster | and i'm a smelly aussie |
| 03:04.54 | ieatlint | she claimed that she has foreign policy experience due to alaska's proximity to russia, adding further that one can see russia from alaska they're so close |
| 03:05.01 | parodyoflanguage | raster: To be fair, she's not from the USA. She's from Alaska. |
| 03:05.06 | rwhitby | raster: aussies know everything |
| 03:05.07 | raster | and she is clueless when it comes to foreign politics/affairs of the world |
| 03:05.08 | ieatlint | lol |
| 03:05.17 | raster | rwhitby: good point! |
| 03:05.17 | raster | :) |
| 03:05.52 | parodyoflanguage | oh, aussie. I get it now :) |
| 03:05.57 | ieatlint | lol |
| 03:06.00 | parodyoflanguage | Sorry, I just had a Palin moment. |
| 03:06.17 | ieatlint | you thin palin knows the difference between aussieland and austria? |
| 03:06.49 | parodyoflanguage | You can't get to aussieland without a warp whistle. |
| 03:06.59 | raster | ieatlint: might be worth testing |
| 03:07.00 | zash | ieatlint: australia? |
| 03:07.07 | raster | as she has no clue where irn, gaza etc. are |
| 03:07.09 | raster | :) |
| 03:07.35 | ieatlint | ask her to explain the difference between england, the UK and great britain |
| 03:07.46 | ieatlint | and then locate all 3 on a map :P |
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| 03:08.55 | zash | ieatlint: not even I know that! |
| 03:09.16 | parodyoflanguage | ieatlint: Well, I'm not familiar with those subtleties either. UK is the whole state; england is just one part of the UK. Not sure about Great Britain. |
| 03:09.29 | ieatlint | it should be entertaining tomorrow... until one realises that if elected, there's a reasonable chance of mccain dying and her taking office |
| 03:10.11 | zash | ieatlint: damn you, now i know that |
| 03:10.26 | ieatlint | hehe |
| 03:10.28 | zash | ieatlint: more knowledge I have little to no use for |
| 03:10.34 | parodyoflanguage | ieatlint: I think they're going to play it so that Palin acts wounded whenever Biden says anything, to make him seem like the aggressor. That'll work because she's a woman. |
| 03:11.09 | zash | now i'll get alzheimers from overloading my brain! |
| 03:11.13 | zash | MY BRAIN HURTS |
| 03:11.17 | ieatlint | england is a country in the UK, great britain is the island with scotland, wales and england on it, and the UK is the nation encompasing scotland, wales, england, northern ireland and various overseas territories |
| 03:11.50 | raster | ieatlint: thats easy (uk, england, etc. etc.) |
| 03:11.55 | parodyoflanguage | ieatlint: tu |
| 03:12.13 | raster | but then again - i do tend to keep abreast of the world... |
| 03:12.21 | ieatlint | raster, a majority of americans can locate england on a map, but a majority cannot locate the UK ... it's not easy for us, apparently ;) |
| 03:12.35 | raster | not surprised |
| 03:12.43 | raster | ask them to locate tasmania |
| 03:12.44 | raster | :) |
| 03:12.49 | ieatlint | i can :) |
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| 03:13.00 | parodyoflanguage | Of the coast of Africa, right? |
| 03:13.04 | parodyoflanguage | *Off |
| 03:13.08 | ieatlint | lol |
| 03:13.09 | zash | parodyoflanguage: yes |
| 03:13.14 | ieatlint | that's madagascar |
| 03:13.20 | zash | parodyoflanguage: Way off! |
| 03:13.22 | zash | the coast |
| 03:13.24 | zash | of africa |
| 03:13.25 | rwhitby | raster: who have you been asking to show their map of tassie? |
| 03:13.25 | zash | :D |
| 03:13.48 | raster | rwhitby: seppos |
| 03:13.48 | parodyoflanguage | Well, the stereotype has to be true *some* of the time :) |
| 03:14.03 | zash | coffee || sleep |
| 03:14.07 | raster | or even better |
| 03:14.11 | raster | find honshu |
| 03:14.32 | parodyoflanguage | no clue |
| 03:14.33 | zash | or EVEN better, find a country that doesn't suck |
| 03:14.34 | raster | or boreno |
| 03:14.35 | rwhitby | raster: http://www.mykaussie.com/images/SueMapofTassie.jpg |
| 03:14.36 | ieatlint | you'd be surprised of america's ignorance, even with all the jokes |
| 03:14.38 | raster | or new guinea |
| 03:14.39 | raster | :) |
| 03:14.40 | parodyoflanguage | find rhode island :D |
| 03:15.00 | parodyoflanguage | New Guinea is easy. Next to New Zealand. |
| 03:15.05 | raster | rwhitby: AHAHHAHAHAHAH |
| 03:15.05 | ieatlint | ask the average american to name 5 countries in which we've officially sent troops into combat over the past 20 years |
| 03:15.17 | raster | rwhitby: "heading south!" |
| 03:15.18 | raster | :) |
| 03:15.32 | raster | ieatlint: dude./ the list is much more than 5! |
| 03:15.34 | raster | thats too easy |
| 03:16.00 | ieatlint | surprisingly, it's not |
| 03:16.10 | ieatlint | (too easy, but yes, the list is probably 20+) |
| 03:16.13 | parodyoflanguage | raster: I think the difficult part is the "official" criteria. |
| 03:16.40 | ieatlint | parodyoflanguage, can you name 5? :) |
| 03:17.12 | parodyoflanguage | I dunno. :) |
| 03:17.18 | ieatlint | exactly :) |
| 03:17.38 | ieatlint | iraq, afghanistant, serbia, bosnia, panama |
| 03:17.49 | kgoetz | remember 'sent troops into' does not equal 'declared war on' :) |
| 03:18.13 | parodyoflanguage | right. Combat was the tricky part. I don't know if Kuwait counts or not. Saudi Arabia. |
| 03:18.16 | rwhitby | http://www.heritage.org/research/nationalsecurity/cda04-11.cfm |
| 03:18.34 | ieatlint | kuwait does, but i don't recall the US in combat in saudia arabia |
| 03:19.03 | parodyoflanguage | I think we were just stationed there. |
| 03:19.09 | parodyoflanguage | During the first Gulf War. |
| 03:19.19 | ieatlint | somalia is one that's gray... it doesn't fit the definition of what we call a country |
| 03:19.57 | ieatlint | you could also add pakistan to the list, in light of the past month's events :P |
| 03:20.50 | parodyoflanguage | And for some reason it's hard for me to separate the countries we've sent troops to from the countries that people talk real badly about on TV. |
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| 03:22.39 | parodyoflanguage | Anyway, gotta go before I embarrass myself more. :D |
| 03:24.07 | ieatlint | hah, no worries |
| 03:24.25 | ieatlint | they're so under reported and essentially not taught in schools, that it's to be expected |
| 03:24.55 | parodyoflanguage | What do you call books that people stick on their bookshelves just for show to look sophisticated? |
| 03:25.50 | ieatlint | reminds me of good will hunting with matt damon asking "do you just send away for a shrink set?" |
| 03:26.52 | parodyoflanguage | There was a show a while back where there's this company who will go out and buy books for you to stock on your bookshelves. |
| 03:26.59 | parodyoflanguage | I thought there might be a word for that. |
| 03:27.37 | ieatlint | none that i know |
| 03:28.36 | rwhitby | parodyoflanguage: it would be the same company that does the books and plastic TVs for furniture stores |
| 03:28.38 | parodyoflanguage | I was actually flabbergasted that people actually do that, and now I can't look at peoples bookshelves the same anymore. |
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| 03:29.31 | parodyoflanguage | rwhitby: I think they're real books though. |
| 03:30.08 | parodyoflanguage | I think they just buy a bunch of classics. |
| 03:30.31 | zash | COFFEE!! |
| 03:30.43 | davo_ | parodyoflanguage: my mother has a friend who cuts the backs off of old books so she can glue them and create an erudite looking stairwell |
| 03:30.47 | davo_ | its really quite appalling |
| 03:32.51 | parodyoflanguage | heheh |
| 03:33.10 | parodyoflanguage | Someone should do that with bibles :D |
| 03:33.43 | parodyoflanguage | Make people ask themselves, should I, or should I not, walk these steps? |
| 03:33.47 | ieatlint | sounds like a plan, let's go hit up the church of latterday saints for some free ones |
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| 03:34.14 | parodyoflanguage | Yeah. It would be much less expensive. They're practically giving them away. |
| 03:34.45 | FxChiP | erudite? |
| 03:34.48 | FxChiP | yikes. |
| 03:34.50 | ieatlint | anyway, i'm bailing on this topic before a religous war starts |
| 03:34.51 | FxChiP | That's bad. |
| 03:50.19 | Dave | :p |
| 03:50.25 | Dave | apt: start a holy war! |
| 03:50.26 | apt | ACTION gets a holy war! started |
| 03:50.33 | Dave | bah :P |
| 03:50.36 | Dave | weak |
| 03:50.47 | Dave | evil lint |
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| 04:10.13 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * ra14614785c06 10/classes/base.bbclass: [base.bbclass] Make it fatal if no entry in checksums.ini exist |
| 04:10.14 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * reb2082dff47b 10/ (12 files in 7 dirs): [squeak] Remove unbuildable old version of the squeak vm |
| 04:10.14 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r3523b9701cef 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [task-openmoko-feed] Put back the java stuff |
| 04:10.15 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r278c59500f5e 10/packages/swt/swt-gtk.inc: [swt] We will need jni.h of GNU classpath to build |
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| 04:12.10 | hipitihop | Squeak VM ? I did not know that was in and why is it being taken out ? |
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| 04:28.17 | rwhitby | hipitihop: it said unbuildable old version ... |
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| 04:33.18 | Dave | heehee |
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| 06:54.12 | methril|meeting | morning |
| 06:56.10 | davo_ | not here |
| 06:56.38 | davo_ | need to qualify with timezone :D |
| 06:58.20 | Kensan | raster: ping |
| 06:58.28 | raster | pog |
| 06:59.03 | Kensan | raster: oh, that was quick :) |
| 06:59.18 | Kensan | raster: I tried to build illume image yesterday |
| 06:59.49 | Kensan | raster: and for some seriously stupid reason it didn't work and I haven't figured out why.:( |
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| 07:00.16 | raster | and.... |
| 07:00.23 | raster | why didnt it build |
| 07:00.24 | raster | and where? |
| 07:00.35 | Kensan | raster: when I issue ./oe-build-illume.sh |
| 07:01.00 | raster | which bit breaks? |
| 07:01.02 | Kensan | raster: right at the beggining somethings off with some env variable but I can't figure it out. |
| 07:01.16 | raster | hmmmm |
| 07:01.24 | raster | dont have much to go on |
| 07:01.39 | Kensan | raster: hold on, I need to pastebin the output |
| 07:02.19 | Kensan | raster: http://nopaste.com/p/aPxYE6aV0 |
| 07:02.21 | alphabeat | hey raster while you're here and at answering q's, does your image suspend/resume ok? |
| 07:02.55 | Kensan | raster: it literally creates a {$OMDIR} directory(!). |
| 07:03.07 | Kensan | raster: eh ${OMDIR} I mean. |
| 07:03.10 | raster | hmmm |
| 07:03.24 | raster | mayeb u should nuke rm -rf ~/oe first before the svn checkout |
| 07:03.42 | Kensan | raster: I did. |
| 07:03.50 | Kensan | raster: It was non-existant before the co |
| 07:04.02 | raster | hmmm |
| 07:04.11 | raster | NOTE: Out of date cache found, rebuilding... |
| 07:04.12 | raster | ... |
| 07:04.15 | raster | that seems odd |
| 07:04.18 | Kensan | raster: yeah |
| 07:04.21 | raster | ERROR: opening ${OMDIR}/org.openembedded.dev/packages/*/*.bb: file not found |
| 07:04.25 | raster | that too |
| 07:04.48 | Kensan | raster: yes, I think it says no package provides illume because it does not build the cache properly |
| 07:05.22 | Kensan | raster: but I can't figure out why it breaks. |
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| 07:05.54 | Kensan | raster: It must be some stupid escape character thing or so, otherwise it would not create ${OMDIR} imho. |
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| 07:06.57 | raster | hrrrm |
| 07:07.06 | raster | what is /bin/sh on your box? |
| 07:07.10 | Kensan | raster: btw I quickly removed some obvious things from boot and reduced the boottime to 105 seconds.That's about 20 seconds less. |
| 07:07.18 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:07.18 | raster | 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2008-01-20 13:48 /bin/sh -> bash* |
| 07:07.33 | Kensan | raster: sh -> bash |
| 07:08.35 | raster | hrrrrm |
| 07:08.42 | Kensan | raster: I don't understand, what bitbake is doing at that point... |
| 07:09.13 | raster | NOTE: Handling BitBake files: / (5847/5847) [100 %] |
| 07:09.13 | raster | NOTE: Parsing finished. 5592 cached, 0 parsed, 255 skipped, 0 masked. |
| 07:09.13 | raster | NOTE: Cache is clean, not saving. |
| 07:09.13 | raster | NOTE: build 200810021708: started |
| 07:09.14 | raster | ... |
| 07:10.11 | davo_ | one thing to look for is to see if you can't batch fork / exec |
| 07:10.14 | Kensan | raster: the TMPDIR var from local.conf does not get interpreted correctly for some reason. That's why ${OMDIR} gets created |
| 07:10.18 | raster | what distro? |
| 07:10.25 | raster | yeah |
| 07:10.27 | Kensan | raster: ubuntu hardy |
| 07:10.27 | raster | it should tho |
| 07:10.42 | Kensan | amd64 |
| 07:10.51 | raster | hmm |
| 07:10.52 | raster | same |
| 07:10.55 | raster | but 32bit |
| 07:11.36 | raster | xserver-xephyr |
| 07:11.36 | raster | monotone netpbm lynx libsdl-dev dosfstools git help2man gcc-3.4 python-psyco |
| 07:11.36 | raster | git-core cogito python-dev m4 sed bison make cvs gawk libc6-dev g++ |
| 07:11.36 | raster | subversion sharutils docbook openjade quilt libmpfr-dev libpcre3-dev texinfo |
| 07:11.36 | raster | texi2html libboost-date-time-dev libboost-filesystem-dev libboost-regex-dev |
| 07:11.37 | raster | libboost-test-dev libboost-dev zlib1g-dev build-essential dh-make debhelper |
| 07:11.40 | raster | devscripts fakeroot cu gtkterm libusb-dev |
| 07:11.41 | raster | apt-get install those |
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| 07:11.48 | raster | just for the hell of it |
| 07:12.01 | Kensan | raster: I already have. I've built oe with the Mokomakefile and that works. |
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| 07:12.09 | raster | grrrr |
| 07:12.10 | ieatlint | libc is overrated |
| 07:12.30 | Kensan | raster: it's very strange and I think it's something very silly, that's why it's annoying me. |
| 07:12.31 | raster | i........don;t know |
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| 07:12.49 | raster | the problem with oe is its sheer enormity and levesl |
| 07:12.52 | raster | with some in pyuthon |
| 07:12.53 | raster | some shell |
| 07:13.11 | raster | and then u have all the autofoo levels between to with configure and make etc. etc. |
| 07:13.13 | Kensan | raster: yeah. I asked in the oe channel but nobody was around. |
| 07:13.21 | raster | and tracing why somethnig happens is a nightmare |
| 07:13.33 | ieatlint | plus 98% of OE is simply making hacks to allow you to cross compile |
| 07:13.44 | ieatlint | in large part due to issues with automake |
| 07:14.05 | Kensan | raster: I don't even have a picture what bitbake does to build the cache etc. Otherwise I could follow the control flow through the code... |
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| 07:15.00 | Kensan | raster: I'll try to build it on my notebook. |
| 07:15.16 | Kensan | raster: well later, I need to get to work. |
| 07:16.52 | raster | hmm |
| 07:16.52 | raster | ok |
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| 07:37.51 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:42.34 | alphabeat | raster: thanks for your answer about suspend on the mailing lists. just remembered i got it to suspend via terminal (apm -s) but couldn't get it to resume either. although that's a given if the buttons weren't being processed |
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| 07:43.21 | raster | not really |
| 07:43.27 | raster | when suspended userspace isnt in control |
| 07:43.36 | raster | buttons should issu a wakeup to kernel to resume |
| 07:43.49 | raster | the buttons while runnig is another issue |
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| 08:52.16 | APz | hey folks; got my freerunner this morning, and I'm preparing to install debian on it |
| 08:52.51 | APz | however I ran into a problem, my 4 GB microsdhc card doesn't seem to get detected. the 512M one that came with freerunner works great |
| 08:52.54 | Tm_T | oh noes |
| 08:53.16 | Tm_T | slaps APz with #openmoko-fi |
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| 08:54.05 | APz | Tm_T: thing there's less slapping involved on the finnish channel? :) |
| 08:54.18 | Tm_T | who knows (; |
| 08:54.25 | Tm_T | just like to have you there too |
| 08:54.34 | APz | okay |
| 08:55.09 | transylvania | APz: I tried to install sunday, install process was broken by libcaca/libcucu dependancy problem in sid |
| 08:55.36 | APz | anyway, after some digging, it'd appear that the Sandisk card I bought is a new variant of the one listed in the compatibility chart |
| 08:55.56 | APz | transylvania: I don't think i'll have much trouble sorting out debian's problems once I got it near-installed state |
| 08:58.43 | transylvania | APz |
| 09:00.57 | transylvania | gstreamer was just unstalable |
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| 09:14.09 | Kensan_ | raster: just a quick update: the same issue arises when I try to build on my notebook. It's also Ubuntu Hardy on a 32-bit Centrino Notebook. |
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| 09:15.19 | Kensan_ | raster: plus patches 0002, 0010 (sane-srcrevs.in and ttf.inc) do not apply. |
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| 09:25.50 | Shlee | APz: SDHC seems to have issues.. There have recently been some kernel patches to improve the compatability but.. good luck |
| 09:26.12 | APz | just upgraded the kernel to 2008.9 |
| 09:26.28 | APz | I'm checking if that would make the new card more usable |
| 09:31.01 | Shlee | I mean within the last week.. so try and find the nightly builds |
| 09:31.27 | APz | after upgrading the card appears correctly and I was able to fdisk it |
| 09:31.57 | APz | is there anything worth knowing if I compile my own kernel for neo? |
| 09:32.08 | APz | any crucial patches to vanilla kernel? |
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| 09:33.44 | Kensan_ | APz: see the kernel repository at git.openmoko.org |
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| 09:34.10 | APz | okay, thanks |
| 09:34.45 | APz | I take it cross compilers work like for any other platform? |
| 09:35.06 | APz | wasn't planning on installing gcc on the neo |
| 09:37.33 | Wonka | i'd like to have a modules.tar for http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/testing-om-gta02-*.uImage.bin |
| 09:37.54 | Tm_T | hrrrr |
| 09:38.45 | Wonka | for http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om*/*.uImage.bin too |
| 09:39.20 | Wonka | i could just extract them from the rootfs.tar.gz, but why download that much stuff? |
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| 09:48.40 | Kensan_ | APz: use the toolchain. Let me get you the link |
| 09:49.14 | Kensan_ | APz: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain#Building_Openmoko_Kernel_from_git_repo_using_Toolchain |
| 09:49.56 | APz | which type of fat should I use for the boot partition on the SD? |
| 09:50.05 | APz | I made a 20 megabyte partition for the kernel |
| 09:50.14 | APz | fat16 or 32? |
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| 09:53.53 | Wonka | APz: fat16 |
| 09:54.15 | APz | ok |
| 09:54.19 | Wonka | APz: fat32 is only useful for really big partitions... greater than 32GB, maybe |
| 09:54.41 | Wonka | just installed powertop... |
| 09:54.41 | Wonka | Top causes for wakeups: |
| 09:54.42 | Wonka | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:54.42 | APz | I know, but I wasn't completely sure if the bootloader had any compatibility modes for different fat variations |
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| 09:56.58 | Wonka | lol: |
| 09:56.59 | Wonka | Suggestion: Enable the CONFIG_HPET_TIMER kernel configuration option. |
| 09:56.59 | Wonka | Without HPET support the kernel needs to wake up every 20 milliseconds for |
| 09:57.07 | Wonka | some housekeeping tasks |
| 09:57.18 | Wonka | as if the freerunner had HPET... |
| 09:57.48 | APz | I guess the hints are pretty generic |
| 09:57.55 | APz | then again, the hpet does wonders on laptops |
| 09:58.03 | APz | with nohz |
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| 09:59.23 | APz | does it matter if the partition with the kernel is set bootable or not? |
| 09:59.29 | Wonka | ack |
| 09:59.35 | Wonka | does not matter |
| 09:59.59 | Wonka | uboot reads the file and doesn't care for the bootable flag at all |
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| 10:00.29 | APz | ok, just wasn't sure what kind of magic there is behind the "fat + ext2"-option in the boot menu |
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| 10:02.02 | Shlee | I assume someones installed bootcharting already? |
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| 10:03.22 | Wonka | Shlee: bootwhat? |
| 10:04.35 | Shlee | Tool to record the booting process, tells you when what module/service ticks in |
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| 10:09.03 | ieatlint | i dunno if i'm late in reporting this, but there's a download for qtopia 4.4.1 for the freerunner now |
| 10:09.14 | Tm_T | not very late |
| 10:09.31 | ieatlint | well, seeing as it's dated 10/1... couldn't be too late ;) |
| 10:09.38 | Tm_T | because that page/server wasn't available everywhere a moment ago |
| 10:09.56 | Tm_T | direct url forr image: http://qtextended.org/downloads/neo/qtopia-4.4.1-gta02-rootfs-10011058.jffs2 |
| 10:10.38 | ieatlint | oddly, now that you posed that url, my download speed went from 200kbps to 130kbps |
| 10:10.39 | ieatlint | bastard. |
| 10:10.42 | ieatlint | ;) |
| 10:10.53 | Tm_T | haha |
| 10:11.13 | Tm_T | ~700 kbps |
| 10:11.16 | leinir | *giggles* Hmm... my download speed was roughly "fast"... shame the flashing is so slow ;) |
| 10:11.32 | Tm_T | ieatlint: so it wasn't my fault, son |
| 10:11.51 | ieatlint | yeah, i know... it happened too quickly to honestly be your fault |
| 10:12.07 | Tm_T | shame, I so wanted to make it happen (;) |
| 10:12.23 | ieatlint | nice, the server is in norway |
| 10:12.48 | Shlee | P.S. What Kernel? |
| 10:13.14 | Shlee | and 4.4.2 is out on the depo |
| 10:13.44 | ieatlint | lol, when you said "not very late" .. you meant like 5min or something, didin't you? |
| 10:13.54 | leinir | ieatlint: Roughly yes :) |
| 10:13.59 | dns53 | how is the new qtopia? does it have gps? |
| 10:14.01 | leinir | In Tm_T's case less ;) |
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| 10:14.25 | ieatlint | that's impressive, i just checked to see if qtextended.org was up for the first time in like 18 hours |
| 10:14.41 | ieatlint | speed is down to 70KBps now... |
| 10:14.51 | ieatlint | guess it's popular |
| 10:15.30 | Tm_T | ieatlint: I still can get over 500 kbps |
| 10:16.02 | ieatlint | which side of the atlantic are you on? |
| 10:16.13 | Tm_T | Europe |
| 10:16.18 | SpeedEvil | In a contended link with multiple tcp/ip sessions over it, the link will tend to be hogged by those with the lowest round-trip time in the absence of any other factors. |
| 10:16.32 | ieatlint | so, what kernel should i be using with this jffs2 image? |
| 10:16.55 | Tm_T | no idea |
| 10:17.15 | ieatlint | yay... |
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| 10:18.24 | leinir | i'm trying it with the one from the 3.3.3 package (mwester's one), i'll report how that works :) |
| 10:19.09 | ieatlint | i'm trying with the 10/1 fso kernel, so similarly.. will let you know .. although i half expect a kernel to be posted on qtextended.org before i finish flashing/booting |
| 10:20.35 | ieatlint | someone go modify dfu-util so it gives you an actual percentage instead of #s, and an eta to completion |
| 10:21.21 | leinir | Just add a ] at the end :) |
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| 10:21.28 | leinir | It'll do the trick nicely :) |
| 10:21.38 | ieatlint | no, it won't |
| 10:22.04 | ieatlint | because in order to do that would require redrawing the entire line, which would create visual artefacts |
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| 10:25.39 | Wonka | gaah. could someone please package e17 and sephora for debian? ;) |
| 10:26.12 | ieatlint | build it from source :) |
| 10:26.32 | Wonka | that's what i have debian for - building stuff myself |
| 10:26.45 | Wonka | NOT. |
| 10:26.53 | ieatlint | that's why i have gentoo ... "emerge e" ... |
| 10:27.00 | ieatlint | laughs meniacally |
| 10:27.12 | Wonka | yeah right. emerge on a 400MHz ARM. |
| 10:27.30 | ieatlint | ok, so cross compile |
| 10:27.38 | Wonka | with a Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz 2GB RAM just 50cm away... |
| 10:27.56 | Wonka | need toolchain. |
| 10:27.57 | ieatlint | gentoo has a crosscompiling infrastructure |
| 10:28.01 | Wonka | mokomakefile? |
| 10:28.25 | ieatlint | "crossdev -t arm-unknown-linux-gnueabi" ... toolchain built |
| 10:28.47 | ieatlint | you then use the standard gentoo package manager to populate the toolchain with libraries |
| 10:29.00 | Wonka | mh... apt-cross |
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| 10:29.48 | ieatlint | although, it's far from perfect, especially in amd64 (vs x86) |
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| 10:30.49 | ieatlint | one guy in here i know create a qemu image running gentoo, and then set up distcc to compileusing the host machine |
| 10:31.37 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * r5323655abd7f 10/packages/ (16 files in 6 dirs): [Descriptions] Adding more description to applications |
| 10:31.37 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * r28e0e80477f1 10/ (15 files in 10 dirs): Merge branch 'org.openmoko.dev' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/openmoko into org.openmoko.dev |
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| 10:38.44 | dns53 | where is the qtopia image? qtopia.net seems to be upgrading at the moment |
| 10:38.53 | leinir | qtextended.org :) |
| 10:39.38 | lpotter | qtopia.net should start to point to qtextended.org sometime soon |
| 10:40.04 | dns53 | so it's a nokia site? or community? |
| 10:40.04 | Tm_T | (:) |
| 10:40.12 | Tm_T | it's trolltech site? |
| 10:40.26 | lpotter | Trolltech! long live Trolltech! |
| 10:40.31 | Tm_T | indeed |
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| 10:41.28 | dns53 | being the image that i can actually make a phone call all the time it's great |
| 10:41.42 | Tm_T | erm |
| 10:42.13 | ieatlint | hmm |
| 10:42.26 | ieatlint | first impressions of the web browser are mostly good |
| 10:42.40 | ieatlint | has a decent implementation of javascript (does the google suggestion thing quite well) |
| 10:43.02 | ieatlint | but i quickly learnt that you can't say go to "google.com" ot it loads "file:///google.com |
| 10:43.29 | Kensan_ | raster: btw I was able put in an order for a Pandora yesterday! woho! |
| 10:44.29 | dns53 | one linux powered geek device is enough for me for a while |
| 10:44.53 | lpotter | ieatlint: first task tracker bug! weee! |
| 10:45.16 | Shlee | Hopefully the qtopia 4.4.1 works with the FDOM 2008.9 kernel |
| 10:45.27 | ieatlint | it also is failing to return from sleep... but that is more likely due to the kernel mismatch |
| 10:45.59 | ieatlint | lpotter, where is the qtopia trac? and what kernel should i be using? hehe |
| 10:47.21 | lpotter | latest. http://trolltech.com/developer/task-tracker |
| 10:47.53 | ieatlint | oh, and congrats on the release! and thanks :) |
| 10:51.56 | edistar_ | lpotter: nice release |
| 10:52.13 | edistar_ | lpotter: could you provide a working kernel too? |
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| 11:06.27 | lpotter | sure. |
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| 11:26.02 | xMDKx | morning |
| 11:26.23 | Shlee | Good morning Murder Death Kill |
| 11:27.06 | xMDKx | XD |
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| 11:32.12 | CVirus | Good morning |
| 11:32.17 | CVirus | my name is Jurgen Guntherswarchzaffenstrassen |
| 11:32.19 | CVirus | :-p |
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| 11:36.04 | Shlee | Ashley Kail myself. |
| 11:39.03 | ieatlint | CVirus, you do realise that means gunther black-ape-street? |
| 11:39.33 | CVirus | never knew that |
| 11:39.34 | CVirus | lol |
| 11:40.45 | ieatlint | :) |
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| 11:43.07 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm_ (n=thomas@pD9E17E4F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:44.01 | Shlee | waits for his OpenPandora.. start shipping at the end of November! damn it |
| 11:45.42 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 11:48.01 | *** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu_ (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-078-042-218-154.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 11:48.20 | Kensan_ | Shlee: I finally ordered mine last night. It seems they still have a couple left :) |
| 11:49.19 | ieatlint | i'll be interested to see how that project goes |
| 11:49.43 | ieatlint | at the moment, it looks to me like a smaller eeepc on arm and with graphics |
| 11:49.44 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-088-065-228-015.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:49.54 | leinir | Indeed, the old one was a very interesting toy, and this one seems to have rocking potential :) |
| 11:50.57 | ieatlint | the eeepc is perfect for women... fits perfectly into a medium sized purse... but even being in san francisco, people would look at me oddly if i wend around with a purse |
| 11:52.34 | alephnull | It's European! |
| 11:52.56 | raster | ieatlint: it's not a purse1 it's a man bag! |
| 11:53.37 | ieatlint | yeah, and that would fly, if i were gay |
| 11:53.48 | ieatlint | and i'm obviously not gay -- i don't dress anywhere near nice enough |
| 11:54.01 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@p57A645A3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:55.00 | raster | you're just in denial |
| 11:55.06 | raster | you know you want a man bag! |
| 11:55.36 | ieatlint | i just need to get my gay friends to give me some style advice :P |
| 11:56.09 | ieatlint | sadly, gay geeks aren't exactly known for it :( |
| 11:56.21 | *** join/#openmoko dns_ (n=dns@ppp246-215.static.internode.on.net) |
| 11:56.39 | Kensan_ | raster: did you happen to read the comments I made earlier? (Build doesn't work on my notebook either :() |
| 11:56.52 | raster | Kensan_: damn! it doesn't? grrr! |
| 11:56.53 | raster | why |
| 11:56.58 | raster | kicks oe |
| 11:56.59 | Kensan_ | raster: same message |
| 11:57.19 | raster | ieatlint: and hook u up with thier girlfriends - as all the hot chicks hang around gay guys |
| 11:57.20 | Kensan_ | raster: it must be some stupid environment/escape char thing |
| 11:57.21 | raster | :) |
| 11:57.29 | raster | Kensan_: bugger. |
| 11:57.40 | raster | i'm at a bit of a loss... |
| 11:57.53 | Kensan_ | raster: me too, BUT did you read my second spam message? ;) |
| 11:57.53 | raster | without tracing it all the way through everywhere... |
| 11:58.10 | raster | patches |
| 11:58.11 | ieatlint | raster, that's only vaguely true |
| 11:58.12 | Kensan_ | raster: hm might need to figure out how to debug python programs. |
| 11:58.14 | raster | they should apply |
| 11:58.22 | ieatlint | hot chicks don't hang around gay geeks much |
| 11:58.24 | raster | git-formatpatch generated them |
| 11:58.31 | raster | but maybe upsteram has changed since i patched/generated |
| 11:58.32 | Kensan_ | raster: nono, the third spam then ;) I was able to order a pandora |
| 11:58.41 | ieatlint | all the hot (female) geeks i've met are taken :( |
| 11:58.47 | raster | ieatlint: oh gay GEEKS! well... of course not! |
| 11:58.47 | raster | :) |
| 11:58.57 | raster | aaah panny |
| 11:58.57 | Kensan_ | raster: yeah I think it's that. Upstream had some conflicting commits probably |
| 11:58.58 | raster | cool |
| 11:59.02 | ieatlint | raster, yeah, oddly my friends are geeks ;) |
| 11:59.02 | raster | more toys |
| 11:59.13 | raster | i hope someone else brews up a panny oe recipie for the machine |
| 11:59.14 | raster | soon |
| 11:59.17 | raster | :) |
| 11:59.19 | Kensan_ | raster: when will I have time to play with all of my toys *sigh* |
| 11:59.23 | raster | its almost a beagleboard |
| 11:59.25 | raster | so should be easy |
| 11:59.40 | ieatlint | there's an dev event at google sf this saturday... there'll be like 8 hot women and 50 socially inept guys (myself included) |
| 11:59.45 | ieatlint | and all 8 women will be taken |
| 12:00.08 | Kensan_ | ieatlint: why, is the Football team convetion across the hall? |
| 12:00.20 | Wonka | ieatlint: normal. |
| 12:00.21 | Shlee | Anyone know if we have a qtopia 4.4 kernel? |
| 12:00.30 | Wonka | ieatlint: even not-so-hot women tend to be taken |
| 12:00.40 | ieatlint | Wonka, sadly true |
| 12:00.55 | leinir | Shlee: Just use the old one - mwester's one for example :) |
| 12:01.02 | ieatlint | not-so-hot is fine really, it's the whole intelligence thing that matters |
| 12:01.11 | ieatlint | my ex was smart, she just had other issues, hehe |
| 12:04.41 | Shlee | wtf.. You cannot confirm Time Zone. |
| 12:04.48 | Wonka | beauty comes from the inside |
| 12:04.49 | Shlee | mmmm can anyone confirm that |
| 12:05.18 | Kensan_ | raster: I will take another stab at it later tonight... |
| 12:05.25 | leinir | Shlee: i can confirm that it doesn't work :) |
| 12:05.30 | raster | hands Kensan_ a large knife |
| 12:05.40 | raster | ããï¼ |
| 12:06.11 | Kensan_ | raster: Ok, I will go at it Tokugawa-style ;) |
| 12:07.15 | Kensan_ | raster: maybe someone in #oe can give a hint... will see. |
| 12:10.12 | Shlee | Second bug: The first item on the lists seem to be missing the top third until you move it. |
| 12:11.44 | raster | indeed |
| 12:11.52 | raster | cut cut cut |
| 12:12.21 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 12:14.55 | xt | qtopia 4.4 is fairly awesome |
| 12:15.48 | max_posedon | ieatlint, btw, don't you know, Is it possible atlist, read non-latin characters in sms? (cyrrilic for example). |
| 12:16.39 | ieatlint | not sure what you mean |
| 12:17.00 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * r65f6a3ffa6c9 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [Assassin] Bump up to version 263 |
| 12:17.08 | ieatlint | sms supports it, but as to if any openmoko image supports it.. i dunno |
| 12:17.08 | max_posedon | I can't read russian sms with qtopia-4.3.3 |
| 12:17.16 | Shlee | The screen keeps turning off on me.. and it just crashed or something |
| 12:17.21 | Shlee | but all in all. a good release :) |
| 12:17.28 | max_posedon | qtopia just haven't russian fonts. |
| 12:17.42 | ieatlint | sms has two modes... ascii and pdu, pdu being essentially raw data (which can be interpreted as any char set) |
| 12:18.03 | ieatlint | as to if qtopia supports pdu... i dunno, and as to if it supports cyrillic, i dunno |
| 12:18.07 | Shlee | Where shall thou submit bug reports? |
| 12:19.02 | ieatlint | reading the fso trac, i know fso has added support for pdu sms, but not sure if any gui supports it |
| 12:19.05 | max_posedon | ieatlint, for example, for reading sms I need to reboot to Om2008.9, because qtopia display-s just empty space insteed cyrrilic. (I think qtopia-4.3 hasn't russian fonts). |
| 12:19.55 | ieatlint | max_posedon, i am likely not the best source of info, as i primarily don't use qtopia, and my language knowledge doesn't go bayond the latin char set |
| 12:20.21 | ieatlint | http://trolltech.com/developer/task-tracker i the qtopia bug tracker |
| 12:20.30 | raster | ieatlint: how do u know what charset to use? |
| 12:20.30 | max_posedon | ok, I'll test myself in 3-4 hours, thanks for the link. |
| 12:20.37 | ieatlint | and if that is not already up there, then that is a very apt bug |
| 12:20.43 | ieatlint | raster, because i configure it |
| 12:21.00 | Shlee | Sound quality ist good. |
| 12:21.02 | ieatlint | i'm currently on utf-8, which encompasses more than latin charset, realise :) |
| 12:21.14 | ieatlint | i realise |
| 12:21.42 | ieatlint | i use a german keyboard layout, and as such i became "aware" of the localisation issues of linux |
| 12:21.58 | ieatlint | and pdu sms has a lot more features than non-ascii chars |
| 12:22.01 | raster | ieatlint: but if someone sends u an sms |
| 12:22.06 | raster | how do u know what charset its in |
| 12:22.25 | raster | and if u send one.. how does the other party know what charset it's in? |
| 12:22.31 | ieatlint | right now i know because the version of fso/zhone i have doesn't support pdu sms |
| 12:22.40 | raster | ahahhaah |
| 12:22.43 | raster | but to support |
| 12:22.46 | raster | how edo u know? |
| 12:22.51 | raster | is there some header that tells u? |
| 12:22.53 | ieatlint | i'm not the one to ask :) |
| 12:22.59 | ieatlint | that sounds likely |
| 12:23.02 | raster | aaah |
| 12:23.05 | ieatlint | but the fso guys would know |
| 12:23.14 | ieatlint | the trac logs says they got it working (pdu sms) |
| 12:23.27 | ieatlint | so the fso code would tell you |
| 12:23.43 | ieatlint | (i don't believe zhone uses the pdu sms support, however) |
| 12:24.07 | *** join/#openmoko jtickle (n=jtickle@ip-152010152154.ess.appstate.edu) |
| 12:24.22 | raster | k |
| 12:24.26 | raster | tho i think they do now |
| 12:24.31 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@91-113-120-160.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 12:24.32 | raster | as i saw screenshots with chinese in zhone |
| 12:24.38 | ieatlint | nice |
| 12:24.41 | raster | so i think they were working on it |
| 12:24.45 | transylvania | qtopia 4.4.1 out |
| 12:25.05 | raster | and frameworkd and zhone support to supprot changes in frameworkd go hand in hand for texting |
| 12:25.09 | raster | zhone IS the test suite |
| 12:25.10 | Tm_T | transylvania: and? |
| 12:25.14 | dns53 | where is the kernel for 4.4.1 |
| 12:25.24 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E1591E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:25.25 | Tm_T | dns53: use openmoko kernel |
| 12:25.28 | ieatlint | they were, their trac says they have it working in the framework... but it says nothing (that i've seen) of zhone support |
| 12:25.35 | transylvania | I only see the jffs2 |
| 12:26.06 | Tm_T | transylvania: use openmoko kernel |
| 12:26.10 | ieatlint | mickey is the obvious source for info on it |
| 12:26.27 | ieatlint | but if you want specs, the gsm specs are the answer |
| 12:26.34 | transylvania | Tm_T: will test it in a few hours |
| 12:26.36 | ieatlint | the sms info should explain how sms pdu is handled |
| 12:26.38 | transylvania | back to home |
| 12:26.43 | ieatlint | and how it's identified vs just ascii |
| 12:27.32 | raster | ieatlint: i was hoping u'd just serve as a spec-reading machine for me! |
| 12:27.32 | Tm_T | first boot with Qtext 4.4.1 and first seqfault seen |
| 12:27.32 | raster | :) |
| 12:27.50 | ieatlint | hehe, that's how i see you for edje ;) |
| 12:27.58 | raster | hhehehehe |
| 12:28.32 | ieatlint | anyway, i'm excellent at memorising info, as far too many people will attest to (a LOT of people at the openmoko meetings i attend assume i work for openmoko) |
| 12:28.43 | ieatlint | but i haven't read the specifics on the standard |
| 12:29.15 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@78-22-198-251.access.telenet.be) |
| 12:30.00 | raster | buggah! |
| 12:30.13 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@135.84-49-129.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:30.51 | ieatlint | hehe, sorry |
| 12:31.27 | ieatlint | btw, if you ever come to sf, i'll buy you pint ;) |
| 12:32.11 | Shlee | the task tracker doesn't include the ability to select the 4.4 brance |
| 12:32.14 | Shlee | branch |
| 12:32.31 | raster | ieatlint: that makes up for it@! |
| 12:32.32 | raster | :) |
| 12:32.39 | raster | ok |
| 12:32.49 | raster | default english dict now has frequency info in it... |
| 12:32.49 | Shlee | Rick Astley shortlisted for MTV award - Best Act Ever.. Vote now http://ema.mtv.co.uk/vote/ He would vote for you, He wouldn't let you down. |
| 12:32.50 | ieatlint | hehe |
| 12:32.53 | ieatlint | beer always does |
| 12:32.55 | raster | werd to yo mothaaaa! |
| 12:32.56 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@xsftbnupc02.upc.es) |
| 12:33.09 | Tm_T | Shlee: please nooo |
| 12:33.48 | Tm_T | hates that kind of spam |
| 12:34.28 | Shlee | Sorry. |
| 12:34.51 | Shlee | My problem with task tracker means I cannot submit bugs :( |
| 12:38.07 | Tm_T | doesn't mean you should punish us all with some mtv spam |
| 12:39.57 | Kensan_ | raster: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/pandora-gaming-handheld-runs-%C3%A5ngstr%C3%B6m |
| 12:40.27 | raster | that is wordalicious! |
| 12:41.13 | ieatlint | "wordalicious" ... few things can beat that adjective! |
| 12:41.20 | raster | happiness is me |
| 12:41.37 | raster | well actuall y no |
| 12:41.57 | raster | i want to know why my geom_Set ias not being called on my bitch fo a scroller! |
| 12:42.01 | Kensan_ | raster: well it depends. If I don't figure out why the bloody He&%ç it doesn't work for me I need to stick my head deeper into OE than I wanted to... |
| 12:42.08 | ieatlint | hehe, my mother managed to get on a flight with a bottle of water (acidentally), and i started cracking up when she commented that she doesn't fit a terrorist profile |
| 12:42.18 | raster | oooh wait! |
| 12:42.21 | raster | i know why |
| 12:42.21 | ieatlint | because, you know, the irish would never resort to terrorism |
| 12:42.29 | raster | dagnamnit! |
| 12:42.39 | Kensan_ | trembles in fear |
| 12:43.10 | zash | tss, terrorism |
| 12:43.14 | raster | ponders what can be done |
| 12:43.24 | raster | realises a major flaw in his design |
| 12:43.27 | zash | nuking the crap out of ppl > terrorizing |
| 12:43.29 | raster | shudders |
| 12:43.35 | raster | realises he has to rewrite it |
| 12:43.37 | raster | POO! |
| 12:43.47 | Kensan_ | raster: so it's not *MY* stupidity? |
| 12:44.01 | Kensan_ | raster: well it wouldn't mean that I am not stupid but still... |
| 12:44.13 | ieatlint | whatever... the irish would never be terrorists ;) |
| 12:44.34 | raster | Kensan_: no no. |
| 12:44.37 | raster | nothnig to do with oe |
| 12:44.42 | raster | this would be elementary... |
| 12:45.01 | Kensan_ | raster: hm ok, what is it then? all the suspense is bad for my health... |
| 12:45.26 | edistar | # Sie sind sicher, dass niemand unbefugten Zugang zu Ihrem Handgepäck oder einem von Ihnen mitgenommenen Gegenstand hatte. |
| 12:45.37 | edistar | oO, sry about the spam |
| 12:45.52 | ieatlint | lol |
| 12:46.09 | edistar | was just checking in online.. |
| 12:46.13 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r8cbdbb924d5d 10/contrib/site-conf/ (aclocal.m4 configure.ac m4/squeak.m4): [site-conf] Add the tests for the squeak vm |
| 12:46.21 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * rb8dce443685f 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [squeak] Attempt to add squeak 3.10-1 |
| 12:46.33 | raster | Kensan_: elementary |
| 12:46.48 | raster | (the widget set behind the alarm app for example) |
| 12:46.54 | Kensan_ | raster: hm I don't quite follow... |
| 12:47.21 | Kensan_ | raster: hold on, are we talking about the same thing? (I am talking about building illume with your scripts). |
| 12:47.29 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 12:47.45 | Kensan_ | raster: ah ok, lol. |
| 12:47.50 | Kensan_ | raster: I just reread. |
| 12:47.51 | raster | no |
| 12:47.55 | raster | talking of different things |
| 12:48.06 | Kensan_ | raster: just put me on ignore, that should work out better. |
| 12:48.21 | edistar | :D |
| 12:48.40 | Kensan_ | moves over and stands in the corner, very quietly... |
| 12:50.45 | raster | hahahaha |
| 12:50.48 | raster | ok |
| 12:50.51 | raster | time to do something else... |
| 12:52.53 | Shlee | fungible |
| 12:56.55 | *** join/#openmoko leinir (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 12:58.18 | *** join/#openmoko flavior (n=flavior@201-65-98-68.poolip.JPA.embratel.net.br) |
| 12:58.21 | *** join/#openmoko tjikkun (n=tjikkun@195-240-122-237.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 12:58.43 | *** join/#openmoko Hire (n=hire@host174-158-dynamic.61-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:00.10 | *** join/#openmoko asciiforever (n=Jon@74-131-26-229.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
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| 13:07.00 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213-152-39-89.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) |
| 13:07.19 | hipitihop | so who has the 4.4.1 qt-extended running ? |
| 13:07.27 | leinir | raises a paw ;) |
| 13:07.35 | leinir | Me! It's well and properly smooth :) |
| 13:08.14 | hipitihop | scrambles to download 4.4.1 |
| 13:09.09 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 13:09.42 | hipitihop | leinir, the download has the jffs2, what bin are you using ? |
| 13:10.00 | leinir | You mean to say kernel, i take it? :) |
| 13:10.20 | leinir | i'm just using mwester's one from the 4.3.3 snapshot :) |
| 13:10.22 | edistar | hipitihop: I took a kernel from the daily builds |
| 13:11.37 | hipitihop | edistar, link please ... lost track with all the stacks of late |
| 13:11.54 | hipitihop | leinir, have that one too |
| 13:12.04 | edistar | http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/ |
| 13:12.24 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03werner * r4687 10/trunk/src/host/norwp/Makefile: Added -lusb, which seems to be needed for some builds. |
| 13:12.41 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@208-125.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 13:13.24 | Shlee | http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/testing-om-gta02-20080930.uImage.bin <-- is that the nightly kernel? |
| 13:14.00 | hipitihop | leinir, yes kernel sorry, I thought things like resume from suspend and other issues would need a kernel update too |
| 13:14.22 | Tm_T | leinir: hmmm, set gprs to use? |
| 13:14.31 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03tick * r4688 10/trunk/src/target/thumbnails/ (11 files in 2 dirs): [thumbnail] update Installer thumbnails |
| 13:15.18 | edistar | even wifi and browser works in qte 4.4.1 :) |
| 13:15.58 | hipitihop | edistar, how do I know which is the better kernel from those two locations ? |
| 13:16.16 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03werner * r4689 10/developers/werner/dbgrst/Makefile: Add -lusb because libftdi needs it. |
| 13:16.31 | edistar | hipitihop: two locations? |
| 13:17.26 | edistar | hipitihop: I can only find one gta02 kernel at downloads.openmoko.org/daily |
| 13:17.54 | hipitihop | http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/ and "mwester's one from the 4.3.3 snapshot" mentioned by leinir |
| 13:17.59 | Hire | I flashed my freerunner with qte 4.4.1 and sorry... it sux |
| 13:18.18 | hipitihop | Hire, please elaborate |
| 13:18.23 | slaxxin | \what sucks aabout it? |
| 13:18.42 | Hire | it's as qtopia 4.3.3 |
| 13:18.46 | Hire | ugly |
| 13:18.52 | hipitihop | what's the reference point |
| 13:18.54 | Hire | rotate don't support the accel |
| 13:19.09 | slaxxin | is that all? |
| 13:19.15 | edistar | hipitihop: oh, well.. mwesters is older, so I'd think the kernel modules in the new qte image wouldn't be compatible |
| 13:19.46 | Hire | no |
| 13:19.46 | hipitihop | Hire, according to the doco on qt-extended it is supposed to, at least at the qy framework level |
| 13:19.46 | edistar | rotate works very well |
| 13:19.46 | edistar | but the rest isn't amazing |
| 13:19.46 | Hire | no, I have tested it and I can only manual rotate |
| 13:20.02 | edistar | Hire: yes, rotate doesn't work automatically |
| 13:20.15 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru_ (n=geaaru@host251-50-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:20.17 | *** join/#openmoko lestat (n=Unknown@unaffiliated/corentin) |
| 13:20.19 | lestat | hi all |
| 13:20.23 | edistar | hi |
| 13:20.23 | Hire | and ... what is the difference from 4.4.1 and 4.3.3? the name |
| 13:20.27 | lestat | just got my neo free runner :D |
| 13:20.31 | edistar | Hire: try the browser |
| 13:20.32 | Dave | heh |
| 13:20.34 | Hire | I don't see the improvement |
| 13:20.48 | hipitihop | edistar, so you suggesting I use the http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/ or are my wires crossed |
| 13:20.56 | edistar | hipitihop: exactly |
| 13:21.02 | edistar | Hire: well, it's webkit-enabled now |
| 13:21.04 | Dave | leinir, it's no the only thing which is smooth ;) |
| 13:21.24 | Hire | and for what? :D |
| 13:21.38 | *** join/#openmoko batti (n=batti@p5B1497A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:21.41 | edistar | Hire: browsing the web? |
| 13:21.57 | Hire | only this, the browser? |
| 13:22.00 | lestat | i'm trying to download the theme for the media player using this documentation: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Installing_multimedia.2C_web_browsing_and_other_applications |
| 13:22.09 | edistar | Hire: a network manager too |
| 13:22.11 | Hire | on my freerunner I can use minimo and midori |
| 13:22.19 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=mbarre@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:22.20 | lestat | but the server http://abraxa.dyndns.org simply doesn't answer on port 81 |
| 13:22.21 | leinir | Dave: Of course not, rubber will do that :) |
| 13:22.27 | edistar | I'm not trying to sell qte, just saying that there are improvements |
| 13:22.37 | Dave | >:) |
| 13:22.49 | edistar | lestat: looks like his homepc is off ;) |
| 13:23.04 | Dave | edistar :P |
| 13:23.08 | lestat | heh |
| 13:23.25 | Hire | we need |
| 13:23.34 | Shlee | There was a 4.4 preview video with a ipod coverslidish menu.. |
| 13:23.41 | Hire | i tested it |
| 13:23.46 | Dave | leinir, speaking of rubbers, you got one for your freerunner yet? :P |
| 13:23.51 | edistar | Shlee: that wasn't 4.4, it was just a demo app |
| 13:23.59 | Dave | heh |
| 13:24.20 | leinir | Dave: A sleeve? Nah, i'm staying with just the screen protector :) |
| 13:24.29 | Dave | Ah :) |
| 13:24.36 | Dave | naughty, but nice ;) |
| 13:24.58 | Hire | we need shr |
| 13:25.02 | Dave | beats Mwester with 20 gsm modems |
| 13:25.16 | Dave | oh man |
| 13:25.24 | Dave | Death by Moko |
| 13:26.47 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK (n=ArteK@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 13:26.49 | viq | MokoDM ;) |
| 13:26.55 | Dave | :D |
| 13:26.57 | Dave | sounds hot |
| 13:27.05 | viq | heh |
| 13:27.11 | Dave | Mooooookooooo KOOOOOOOMBAAAAAAAAT! |
| 13:27.19 | viq | :D |
| 13:27.29 | Dave | FINISH HIM! |
| 13:27.41 | viq | And a group of people shaking their phones as they have MK on them that's motion controlled ;P |
| 13:27.53 | Dave | cool |
| 13:29.22 | Dave | OMGROFLBBQ |
| 13:29.24 | Dave | OMFG |
| 13:29.37 | Dave | dies of a heartattack from his moko |
| 13:29.56 | Dave | Dude, WHERE is that fucking alarmclock ringer? |
| 13:30.11 | Dave | Someone needs to be strangled now. |
| 13:31.42 | Shlee | Alot of "splash-write" errors |
| 13:32.50 | Dave | yep |
| 13:32.58 | Dave | blame exquisite |
| 13:33.12 | Hire | why the fso stock is stopped? |
| 13:33.20 | Hire | ehm... |
| 13:33.30 | Hire | without commit for two days |
| 13:34.00 | Dave | Commit, you say? ... |
| 13:34.18 | Hire | yes |
| 13:34.22 | edistar | Hire: not, it's not stopped |
| 13:34.25 | *** join/#openmoko matholio_ (n=matt@124-170-126-69.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:36.20 | *** join/#openmoko hannes_s (n=Hannes_S@d018107.adsl.hansenet.de) |
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| 13:37.20 | Dave | funky gsm |
| 13:38.54 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-85-186.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 13:42.05 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * r6c7ef7d543fe 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin-thumbnail] Bump up the assassin-thumbnail to 2688 |
| 13:42.06 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * rfc4f13774b55 10/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Merge branch 'org.openmoko.dev' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/openmoko into org.openmoko.dev |
| 13:43.02 | *** join/#openmoko pabs3 (n=pabs@d122-105-76-234.per9.wa.optusnet.com.au) |
| 13:43.32 | pabs3 | which kernel image should be used with Qtopia 4.4.1? |
| 13:44.18 | max_posedon | the same as with 4.3.3 |
| 13:44.38 | Dave | pabs! |
| 13:44.39 | philhug | there's a kernel in the image itself... |
| 13:44.44 | *** join/#openmoko kwek (n=kwek@188.Red-213-97-48.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 13:45.41 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * ree0ea4929d28 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py: ousaged: make setPolicy a tasklet |
| 13:46.14 | *** part/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=KenSentM@ip-145-93-88-18.fontys.nl) |
| 13:51.25 | edistar | philhug: no.. there isn't.. it's just a jffs2, isn't it? |
| 13:52.09 | pabs3 | edistar: correct |
| 13:52.32 | pabs3 | :( qtextended.org is so slooooow |
| 13:52.49 | edistar | pabs3: use the daily kernel from downloads.openmoko.org |
| 13:52.49 | Dave | :D |
| 13:52.51 | edistar | e.g. |
| 13:53.02 | max_posedon | edistar, if you mount jffs2 image, you will find kernel in /boot folder |
| 13:53.03 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03tick * r4690 10/trunk/src/target/thumbnails/ (result/thumbnail.eet source/maps_om-maps-hong-kong.png): [assassin-thumbnail] adding hong kong thumbnail |
| 13:53.14 | Dave | haha |
| 13:53.16 | max_posedon | As I see it is the same as before. |
| 13:53.25 | Shlee | Use this Kernel with QT 4.4 http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/testing-om-gta02-20080930.uImage.bin |
| 13:53.41 | edistar | max_posedon: okey |
| 13:54.04 | *** join/#openmoko nemik_ (n=cyanact@c-67-173-76-34.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 13:54.41 | *** join/#openmoko sicu (n=si_u@cm-84.208.99.25.getinternet.no) |
| 13:54.43 | Dave | So has anyone used the Nokia 810 or the other tablet version? |
| 13:54.48 | max_posedon | Shlee, but jffs image contain some modules in /lib/modules directory |
| 13:55.11 | max_posedon | I think I'll have problems, if I'll use this kernle, won't it? |
| 13:55.29 | edistar | Dave: n770 |
| 13:56.25 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * r58d97deb1eab 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin-thumbnail] Adding thumbnail of Hong Kong |
| 13:56.34 | *** join/#openmoko bricode (n=bricode@200.122.185.24) |
| 13:56.58 | *** join/#openmoko shoragan (n=shoragan@debian/developer/shoragan) |
| 13:57.09 | Dave | edistar, yeah? :D |
| 13:57.26 | edistar | Dave: well.. I tried using it, why? |
| 13:58.03 | Dave | Okay, I don't get it... |
| 13:58.06 | Dave | What IS the RX-44? |
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| 13:58.29 | edistar | Dave: where did you find that? |
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| 14:03.13 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree (n=df@222.65.132.11) |
| 14:07.18 | Dave | Edistar, it's been smattered all over scap for a while now. |
| 14:07.30 | Dave | And I wanted to know what OS it was running too, because it looks so cool :X |
| 14:07.30 | *** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@118-169-107-28.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 14:07.44 | Dave | If -someone- could find out and let me know, I'd be interested. :) |
| 14:09.10 | *** join/#openmoko surf2me (n=surfer@unixboard/users/surf2me) |
| 14:09.12 | *** join/#openmoko aliases133 (n=alias@124-168-175-209.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 14:09.20 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@unixboard/users/neldoreth) |
| 14:16.48 | pabs3 | Dave: wot you talking about? |
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| 14:18.56 | Dave | The "RX-44" images on scap |
| 14:19.09 | Dave | there have been MANY over the past month or so |
| 14:19.20 | Dave | (prior to all those beagle fuckers taking over) :P |
| 14:19.27 | *** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=chatzill@78-20-186-137.access.telenet.be) |
| 14:21.06 | *** part/#openmoko Toutoug (n=ludovic_@tsf-wpa-1-183.epfl.ch) |
| 14:21.22 | pabs3 | hmm, nokia switching to kde |
| 14:21.39 | swc|666 | 0o |
| 14:21.42 | *** join/#openmoko mazzen (n=mortel@vpn-ce242024.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de) |
| 14:22.00 | *** join/#openmoko Toutoug (n=ludovic_@tsf-wpa-1-183.epfl.ch) |
| 14:22.46 | swc|666 | pabs3: where do u see that |
| 14:22.59 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * re9f5dfcb0bc8 10/tools/cli-framework: cli-framework: Add frameworkiface object |
| 14:22.59 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r2c12bd4a38da 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ (om.py ubx.py): |
| 14:22.59 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: ogpsd.gta02: Make sending aiding data more robust |
| 14:22.59 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: We now send the AID-INI packet even if we don't have a position in order |
| 14:23.01 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: to still set the time. Persistent data gets saved at the end of shutdown |
| 14:23.03 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r0e34d816d05e 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/om.py: |
| 14:23.05 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: ogpsd.gta02: Request AID-HUI packet for warmstart |
| 14:23.05 | *** join/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@gateway.penguincomputing.com) |
| 14:23.07 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: AID-HUI contains information about the leap seconds which we very much |
| 14:23.09 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: like to know. If we play back a correct AID-HUI packet we get valid UTC |
| 14:23.11 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: time instantly. |
| 14:23.33 | pabs3 | swc|666: google "RX-44" site:scap.linuxtogo.org |
| 14:23.46 | swc|666 | kk |
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| 14:37.38 | hipitihop | hmm can't set timezone & time on latest Qt 4.4.1 |
| 14:38.09 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 14:40.57 | Shlee | We know. |
| 14:41.14 | hipitihop | Shlee, is that aimed at me ? |
| 14:42.44 | hipitihop | ok I have set through ssh terminal via 'date -s mmddhhmm' however I can't do 'hwclock --systohc' |
| 14:43.51 | *** join/#openmoko Flyser (n=flyser@dialin-212-144-072-242.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 14:46.02 | sicu | Dave: it's probably just running one of the OS2k* ... looks like the OS2008 |
| 14:46.02 | sicu | Dave: http://europe.nokia.com/A4579470 |
| 14:46.02 | sicu | Dave: http://www.internettablettalk.com/software/ |
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| 14:55.30 | pabs3 | hmm, qtextended is a bit more flakey that qtopia |
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| 14:56.40 | *** part/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@gateway.penguincomputing.com) |
| 14:57.03 | *** part/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu_ (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-078-042-218-154.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 14:57.35 | sicu | pabs3: and by flakey you mean ...? |
| 14:57.57 | mwester | It has dandruff. |
| 14:58.05 | sicu | hehe |
| 14:58.12 | mwester | is downloading that image now, but it is slow... |
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| 15:01.33 | pabs3 | sicu: more bugs |
| 15:01.58 | dolf1074 | pabs3: like? |
| 15:02.00 | *** join/#openmoko lsobral (n=sobral@200.184.118.132) |
| 15:02.19 | max_posedon | pabs3, but it has web browser, and gps demo program) |
| 15:04.21 | *** join/#openmoko Flyser_ (n=flyser@dialin-145-254-189-138.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:04.46 | *** join/#openmoko gcwilson (n=gcwilson@nat/ibm/x-5e8832f71f35e12a) |
| 15:05.13 | *** join/#openmoko Toutoug (n=ludovic_@tsf-wpa-1-183.epfl.ch) |
| 15:05.39 | pabs3 | dolf1074: like not being able to clear call history |
| 15:07.35 | sicu | guess i'll be ok as i never recieve or make calls anyway |
| 15:08.53 | *** join/#openmoko aliases123 (n=alias@unaffiliated/aliases123) |
| 15:10.15 | pabs3 | if ounly I could get the menu out of this stupid ring mode |
| 15:10.31 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=mbarre@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 15:22.24 | *** join/#openmoko Graf_Ithaka (n=georg@unixboard/users/graf) |
| 15:22.35 | Graf_Ithaka | hi there :) |
| 15:22.35 | pabs3 | interesting, they use the same ssh key for qtextended and qtopia |
| 15:28.40 | *** part/#openmoko Toutoug (n=ludovic_@tsf-wpa-1-183.epfl.ch) |
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| 15:44.55 | Graf_Ithaka | bumbl: ah nice to see others from my country :) |
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| 15:46.57 | bumbl | Graf_Ithaka: hallo |
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| 16:08.35 | Staticwave_Ace | anyone tried out qt-4.4.1 yet? |
| 16:08.47 | max_posedon | yes. |
| 16:08.59 | Staticwave_Ace | comments? |
| 16:09.34 | max_posedon | little bit more bugs, but we have gps demo program and webbrowser. |
| 16:10.01 | Staticwave_Ace | bugs :( |
| 16:10.17 | *** join/#openmoko ReachFH (n=ReachFH@221.169.210.231) |
| 16:10.30 | Staticwave_Ace | qt has thus far been the most stable/useful |
| 16:10.46 | Staticwave_Ace | you can't add features and take away the phone ones |
| 16:11.14 | Hire | we need fso + paroli + tichky |
| 16:11.26 | Hire | tichy |
| 16:11.29 | Hire | or shr |
| 16:11.47 | sicu | we need a miracle |
| 16:14.02 | Hire | naaahh |
| 16:14.21 | alfatangoxt | d'ho! |
| 16:15.50 | Staticwave_Ace | max_posedon: what bugs have you seen so far? |
| 16:16.45 | max_posedon | I'm not alone). 1. can't switch timezone, 2. new "server screeen widgets doesn't work correctly" |
| 16:17.13 | sicu | 3. cannot erase call history |
| 16:17.35 | Staticwave_Ace | yeah, timezone |
| 16:17.39 | Staticwave_Ace | I can't set my time either |
| 16:17.51 | *** join/#openmoko niki (n=niki@0x5553169c.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 16:17.54 | Staticwave_Ace | the timezone problem is because /usr/share/timezone is missing the files |
| 16:18.04 | Staticwave_Ace | you could copy them from your desktop or somesuch |
| 16:18.21 | Staticwave_Ace | I don't think what "server screen widgets" are |
| 16:18.25 | Staticwave_Ace | er, don't know |
| 16:18.42 | *** join/#openmoko Flyser_ (n=flyser@dialin-145-254-189-138.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:19.15 | *** join/#openmoko cnwdup_ (n=harlekin@hnvr-4dbd6f96.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 16:19.19 | max_posedon | This is new menu, think about it like DesktopEnveronment on your desktop. |
| 16:20.02 | *** join/#openmoko molkko (n=username@a88-115-164-181.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:20.02 | Staticwave_Ace | hrm |
| 16:20.03 | Staticwave_Ace | okay |
| 16:20.07 | *** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 16:20.27 | Staticwave_Ace | max_posedon: at least it is noticably more responsive |
| 16:21.57 | max_posedon | and one more, when I touch power button, (for get up phone from sleep) FR get up, but show shotdown menu. |
| 16:22.10 | max_posedon | I already twice rebooted FR... |
| 16:22.18 | sicu | set time via ssh terminal 'date -s mmddhhmm' |
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| 16:27.02 | Staticwave_Ace | max_posedon: I noticed that on the old version too |
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| 17:05.19 | lymeca | How possible is it to brick a Freerunner? |
| 17:05.37 | bumbl | lymeca: no |
| 17:05.40 | *** join/#openmoko RedFlash2000 (n=RedFlash@host182-45-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:05.47 | lymeca | no what? |
| 17:05.53 | bumbl | not possible |
| 17:06.02 | bumbl | you can recover through nor uboot |
| 17:06.18 | bumbl | which you can't flash unless you have a debug board |
| 17:06.31 | bumbl | but if you have an debug board you are able to flash everything |
| 17:06.37 | bumbl | -> no brick possible |
| 17:06.48 | lindi- | bumbl: what if you change gsm firmware so that it can't be changed again? |
| 17:06.54 | lymeca | Okay so with a debug board one can brick the FR? |
| 17:07.26 | lindi- | lymeca: nope, with debug board you can boot by copying code to memory using jtag afaik |
| 17:07.41 | lindi- | lymeca: so it doesn't need even nor in that case |
| 17:08.00 | lymeca | Interesting okay. |
| 17:08.03 | *** join/#openmoko blan (n=blan@dslb-088-067-072-128.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:08.11 | lymeca | So upgrading from 2008.8 to 2008.9 does nto require flashing? |
| 17:08.15 | bricode | lindi-: Yep. That's that's you do. Copy a u-boot to memory (while pausing the proc) then resume at the memory location you loaded it to. |
| 17:08.23 | lymeca | But from 2007.2 to 2008.8 requires flashing? |
| 17:08.26 | bricode | Then flash image to nand/nor/whatever. |
| 17:08.39 | lymeca | Do all FR's ship with 2007.2? |
| 17:08.55 | max_posedon | I think yes. |
| 17:11.34 | mwester | lymeca: It is best to flash a new image when possible, rather than upgrading, as upgrading often breaks. |
| 17:12.27 | mwester | would certainly not try to upgrade from 2008.8 to 2008.9; there is little certainty that the result would be something useful or anything like the 2008.9 image itself. |
| 17:12.56 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@net70-17.metalit.net) |
| 17:13.22 | soltys | blah my fr don't like to show my current time ;/ (om2007.2) |
| 17:13.58 | *** join/#openmoko RedFlash2002 (n=RedFlash@host39-107-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:14.21 | soltys | it shows the time -1hour .. |
| 17:14.47 | soltys | /etc/localtime ponts at file for my timezone.. |
| 17:14.54 | soltys | any ideas ? |
| 17:15.36 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host81-159-133-196.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:15.39 | soltys | (its about that clock in 'today' screen in console it shows good time) |
| 17:16.05 | *** join/#openmoko rddDavid51 (n=roudoudo@gar31-1-82-224-8-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:16.09 | bumbl | lindi-: i thought you can't access the gsm firmware as a normal user |
| 17:16.17 | lindi- | bumbl: but as root? |
| 17:16.42 | bumbl | lindi-: even as root |
| 17:16.49 | lindi- | bumbl: really? |
| 17:17.10 | bumbl | the gsm firmare has to be unaccessible as there would be legal problems |
| 17:17.23 | bumbl | if one would be able to swap |
| 17:17.26 | lindi- | bumbl: is it? |
| 17:17.50 | bumbl | i think i have read this somewhere (mailinglist or wiki |
| 17:17.51 | bumbl | ) |
| 17:20.18 | mwester | The GSM firmware cannot be even read out on the Neo, at least by any documented means or any equipment that users have. |
| 17:20.18 | *** join/#openmoko HauDyr (n=kim@knet-gip124.prod.bolignet.dk) |
| 17:20.56 | mwester | Openmoko has the tools to be able to update the firmware in the GSM, but they have not made that available to anyone, so we cannot even update the firmware in the old Neo -- one must ship your Neo to Om, and they will flash it for you if your GSM version is old. |
| 17:20.57 | *** join/#openmoko LionKMP (n=lion@catv-89-133-185-26.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 17:21.27 | lindi- | mwester: so it's just software limit? |
| 17:21.51 | l403 | jtag? |
| 17:21.55 | lindi- | mwester: http://n2.nabble.com/GSM-firmware-hacking-td684093.html says you can get windows version of the firmware upgrade tool |
| 17:22.34 | mwester | That is unknown to me; there is an implication that the download happens on the audio port in some serial fashion. The "enable download" GPIO is no longer connected, I don't know what that does. |
| 17:24.07 | mwester | lindi-: Yes, I saw that email too -- that's why I stated "at least by any documented means" |
| 17:24.28 | *** join/#openmoko bove (n=opera@cm-84.208.114.37.getinternet.no) |
| 17:26.31 | *** part/#openmoko bove (n=opera@cm-84.208.114.37.getinternet.no) |
| 17:26.51 | *** join/#openmoko Zilla (n=Zilla@cc479555-b.hnglo1.ov.home.nl) |
| 17:26.55 | Zilla | Hi all |
| 17:29.51 | *** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=matic@BSN-95-213-56.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 17:33.05 | *** join/#openmoko zeev (n=zeev@85-250-219-91.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 17:35.11 | LionKMP | Is it ok to receive 4 error 404's from "opkg update"? |
| 17:35.17 | LionKMP | 5 actually |
| 17:35.26 | *** join/#openmoko mjr (i=mjr@aulis.sange.fi) |
| 17:36.12 | mwester | Yes |
| 17:36.30 | max_posedon | LionKMP, Have you at least one OK?) |
| 17:36.51 | LionKMP | yes, the daily-Multiverse is ok. |
| 17:37.03 | LionKMP | hm, maybe some more too. |
| 17:37.32 | LionKMP | ah, sorry, the 404's are just the sig files. |
| 17:37.38 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213.152.39.89) |
| 17:37.42 | zeev | I consider purchasing the Neo Freerunner, just a couple of questions: is it usable as basic telefone? I saw somewhere people hear strong echo when smb. calls them from a NeoRunner? Are there hardware problems? |
| 17:38.35 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-088-065-228-015.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:38.44 | LionKMP | zeev: this gives some details: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_Hardware_Issues |
| 17:40.08 | LionKMP | anybody knows where to find Cannot find package python-mokoui? |
| 17:40.15 | *** join/#openmoko lesouvage (n=lesouvag@cc341200-a.assen1.dr.home.nl) |
| 17:40.34 | lesouvage | Has anybody tried Qt Extented 4.4.1 that has been released today? |
| 17:40.58 | zeev | "... may experience poor audio quality" does it happens often? |
| 17:41.17 | lesouvage | zeev: when? |
| 17:41.55 | zeev | ssue: The person on the other end of a GSM phone call may experience poor audio quality, to the point where he/she cannot carry on a normal conversation |
| 17:42.52 | *** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@118-169-107-28.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 17:45.54 | Dave | Mwester |
| 17:53.04 | Dave | -_- |
| 17:54.47 | lesouvage | Should it make any sense to spend time with trying Qt Extented 4.4.1 on my freerunner? |
| 17:54.50 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@e181092104.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:58.21 | *** join/#openmoko micm__ (n=micm@p50872DFB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:59.14 | *** join/#openmoko JadeFalcon (n=jadefalc@156-104.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 18:00.41 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@pdpc/supporter/active/bluelightning) |
| 18:04.02 | TAsn | lesouvage, why not? |
| 18:04.06 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e181174037.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:04.09 | TAsn | im downloading it myself now. |
| 18:04.36 | *** join/#openmoko two34 (n=erik@c83-251-40-108.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 18:04.40 | TAsn | though i can't find a kernel to flash. i guess i will just flash a generic kernel. |
| 18:05.39 | wurp2|gone | TAsn: was there a kernel recommended with the previous Qtopia release? |
| 18:05.50 | TAsn | wurp2|gone, there was one in the tar. |
| 18:06.59 | mwester | TAsn: I just updated the kernels: http://moko.mwester.net/qtopia.html |
| 18:07.22 | mwester | Or you can use the (older) one from the earlier images. |
| 18:07.46 | TAsn | mwester, cool, thanks. |
| 18:08.48 | *** join/#openmoko e_s_p (n=evan@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) |
| 18:11.46 | *** join/#openmoko owen_ (n=owen@netblock-68-183-238-239.dslextreme.com) |
| 18:12.26 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl (n=bumbl@91-113-119-144.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 18:13.51 | owen_ | greetings |
| 18:14.28 | *** join/#openmoko akus (n=akus@host66-171-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:15.44 | *** join/#openmoko Graf_Ithaka (n=georg@unixboard/users/graf) |
| 18:15.46 | *** join/#openmoko DrRabbit_ (n=tuna@ip70-176-117-108.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 18:15.46 | Graf_Ithaka | hi there :) |
| 18:16.15 | Graf_Ithaka | is there a way to prevent the keyboard vom popping up automatically? its just because sometimes its really annoying.. |
| 18:20.36 | owen_ | Is there way I can get my Neo Freerunner screen to duplicate on my PC screen, perhaps scaled up? Do I use a version of SSH? |
| 18:21.08 | *** join/#openmoko FilipLinux4BE (n=Filip@77.109.122.187) |
| 18:21.18 | Zilla | vnc anyone/ |
| 18:21.19 | Zilla | ? |
| 18:21.37 | *** join/#openmoko thrashold (n=europan@3mhz.net) |
| 18:22.25 | owen_ | More detail: I'm using Qtopia on my Freerunner. |
| 18:23.17 | Zilla | running a vnc-server on the freerunner? |
| 18:23.25 | *** join/#openmoko philhug (n=hug@62-2-144-106.static.cablecom.ch) |
| 18:23.32 | Zilla | srry i dont have a FR ;) |
| 18:24.06 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:25.09 | owen_ | Thanks for the input. I'll try these suggestions. |
| 18:25.31 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@212.98.171.13) |
| 18:26.06 | leinir | slaxxin: How do you know that he upgraded? :) |
| 18:27.17 | *** join/#openmoko |R (n=bob@dsl-67-55-4-221.acanac.net) |
| 18:27.47 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@212-2.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 18:28.14 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK (n=ArteK@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 18:28.27 | *** join/#openmoko dracozna_ (i=thomas@cc408686-b.leek1.gr.home.nl) |
| 18:29.42 | *** join/#openmoko flavioribeiro (n=flavior@201-65-98-68.poolip.JPA.embratel.net.br) |
| 18:31.17 | *** join/#openmoko madha1 (n=Administ@122.167.152.97) |
| 18:32.03 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@189.70.12.37) |
| 18:35.39 | *** join/#openmoko c0d3x42 (n=vince@78-86-164-151.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:39.40 | *** join/#openmoko cnwdup (n=harlekin@hnvr-4dbd6f96.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 18:40.05 | TAsn | whats are the modules packages from http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-testing/images/ for? |
| 18:40.19 | TAsn | i mean the tar.gz already includes modules. |
| 18:40.24 | TAsn | which are missing? |
| 18:41.59 | madha1 | does any one get iphone like kinetic scrolling..working |
| 18:42.20 | slaxxin | i dont i forgot the ? |
| 18:42.23 | leinir | Install Qt Extended ;) |
| 18:42.36 | leinir | slaxxin: Right :) |
| 18:42.40 | TAsn | madha1, what's that? |
| 18:42.44 | TAsn | and video? |
| 18:43.06 | *** join/#openmoko baba_melone (n=baba_mel@pD9EB0A24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:43.12 | madha1 | scrolling UI..with inertia |
| 18:43.14 | leinir | TAsn: Finger-scrolling, with elastic list ends :) |
| 18:43.26 | TAsn | i c. |
| 18:43.29 | baba_melone | Hi, Im wondering whether anyone here is experiencing the same gps issue as I do |
| 18:43.52 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 18:44.06 | baba_melone | GPS just works sometimes, but it almost always produces crap, barely one satellite and strange time stamps |
| 18:44.35 | leinir | And you can sort of throw the list - flick your finger and it'll continue scrolling as if you flicked a physical piece of paper :) |
| 18:44.58 | madha1 | leinir: ur right |
| 18:45.28 | leinir | It's very swish, works rather nicely in the new Qt Extended snapshot :) |
| 18:45.52 | baba_melone | dmesg |
| 18:48.06 | Dave | Leinir! |
| 18:48.26 | Dave | Yeah, I find that method of scrolling particular annoying. |
| 18:48.31 | Dave | and ineffective. |
| 18:49.39 | *** join/#openmoko chomwitt (n=chomwitt@adsl20-26.ath.forthnet.gr) |
| 18:50.25 | *** join/#openmoko kirun (n=kirun@50.163.pn.adsl.brightview.com) |
| 18:51.02 | zeev | is freerunner usable as a normal cellphone? |
| 18:51.14 | *** join/#openmoko j4p13j0 (n=jaap@ip54-32-166-62.adsl.versatel.nl) |
| 18:51.22 | zeev | I saw hardware issues but what is under bottomline? |
| 18:51.43 | lesouvage | baba_melone: I played with tango gps in combination with gpsd and I also noticed that it wasn't to reliable. I was told that my speed was 50 km/h while I was sitting on a chair. But I also have it seen working properly with lots of satelites ad 0 km/h while standing still. |
| 18:53.11 | *** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@91.143.127.196) |
| 18:53.47 | johnsu01 | lesouvage: mine consistently tells me that I'm traveling at 1-2 kmh even when standing still, but otherwise it seems to work pretty well |
| 18:56.17 | *** join/#openmoko pheno_ (i=pheno@210-159.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi) |
| 18:58.03 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-084-057-087-073.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:58.14 | zeev | hey guys - its a simple question: is freerunner usable as a normal cellphone? (about to buy one, need your recommendation) |
| 18:59.25 | baba_melone | zeev: yeah, it is |
| 18:59.36 | baba_melone | but it depends on the software youre using |
| 18:59.43 | baba_melone | qtopia works pretty well |
| 19:00.44 | zeev | I wanted to use debian - any experience with it? |
| 19:00.59 | zerghase | If you only want to use it as a cellphone qtopia is ok. But it lacks the advanced features (gps, web browser...) |
| 19:01.12 | lpotter | try 4.4.1 |
| 19:01.27 | zeev | so what about debian/cellphone combination? |
| 19:01.36 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@189.70.241.175) |
| 19:01.40 | lindi- | zeev: are you familiar with debian? |
| 19:01.46 | zerghase | You have to use zhone in debian |
| 19:01.47 | zeev | more or less |
| 19:02.01 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 19:02.08 | zeev | is it stable then? (basic cellphone features) |
| 19:02.18 | baba_melone | yeah, qtopia is |
| 19:02.27 | zerghase | zhone is not really stable... |
| 19:02.35 | toggles_w | zhone roxors! |
| 19:02.37 | baba_melone | or nokia's qtextended |
| 19:02.54 | baba_melone | btw: has anyone tested qtextended yet? |
| 19:02.54 | zerghase | you can't even configure/disable the ring tone in zhone |
| 19:03.01 | toggles_w | zhone roxors! |
| 19:03.13 | zerghase | Its just a testing app... |
| 19:03.15 | baba_melone | zhone is everything else than stable |
| 19:03.29 | toggles_w | zhone is all i use |
| 19:03.44 | toggles_w | i do spend a lot of time rebooting, this is true ;-) |
| 19:03.45 | baba_melone | if you wanna use your neo as a cell phone with high stability, you should use qtopia |
| 19:03.54 | baba_melone | ;) |
| 19:03.55 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@BAA2768.baa.pppool.de) |
| 19:04.02 | zerghase | yes |
| 19:04.07 | baba_melone | zhone is indeed cool, but for playing around |
| 19:04.14 | baba_melone | how is qtextended |
| 19:04.31 | zerghase | you can have qtopia on the internal flash and debian on a sd card |
| 19:04.34 | wurp2|gone | FSO MS1 was quite stable |
| 19:04.54 | wurp2|working | Reports from FSO MS3 are... not so good :-/ |
| 19:05.17 | toggles_w | yeah, i like it though, even if it is quirky |
| 19:05.21 | wurp2|working | But I use qtopia ;-) |
| 19:05.38 | toggles_w | i'd like to get it running on rasters image with the pretty keyboard |
| 19:05.43 | toggles_w | and the alarm clock |
| 19:05.45 | lpotter | i use qtextended |
| 19:05.58 | wurp2|working | toggles_w: Have you tried more recent snapshots? FSO devs told me a week or so ago that recent snapshots were much better than MS3 |
| 19:05.58 | baba_melone | lpotter: is it cool? |
| 19:06.01 | lpotter | qtopia is so.. last week |
| 19:06.11 | baba_melone | has it a package manager |
| 19:06.16 | lpotter | baba_melone: of course |
| 19:06.18 | toggles_w | nah, i've been trying to build the tesing image myself but it fails |
| 19:06.23 | wurp2|working | lpotter: Is qtextended Qtopia 4.4? |
| 19:06.29 | baba_melone | what software can one use under qtextended? |
| 19:06.31 | baba_melone | yeah |
| 19:06.31 | toggles_w | wurp2|working: if you have a link, i'll do it, i'm not afraid |
| 19:06.42 | lpotter | more or less |
| 19:07.24 | toggles_w | wurp2|working: where did you find the fso devs? i'd like to try and get my build issues resolved |
| 19:07.46 | baba_melone | lpotter: can one for instance use tangogps under qtextended? |
| 19:07.55 | baba_melone | and what about multimedia software |
| 19:07.57 | lindi- | wurp2|working: what's wrong with ms3? |
| 19:07.58 | wurp2|working | toggles_w: You can find them here... alphaone, mickey|zzZZzz... I know there are others, but I don't remember their irc names offhand :-( |
| 19:08.04 | lpotter | if its a qtopia application, yes |
| 19:08.05 | baba_melone | and power management |
| 19:08.20 | lpotter | qtopia has everything included |
| 19:08.30 | wurp2|working | baba_melone: I don't think there's a qtopia version of tangogps |
| 19:08.34 | baba_melone | hm |
| 19:08.36 | wurp2|working | lpotter: Does that now include a gps program? |
| 19:08.37 | toggles_w | wurp2|working: thanks, anyide on where to find a new image? |
| 19:08.44 | wurp2|working | 'cause it doesn't include one in 4.3.2 |
| 19:08.47 | baba_melone | but could one install gtk+ and tangogps? |
| 19:08.58 | zerghase | qtopia doesn't run a x server so you can't use gtk apps with it |
| 19:09.02 | wurp2|working | toggles_w: Sorry, no. I asked a couple of people - I'll let you know if I get an answer |
| 19:09.13 | toggles_w | wurp2|working: cool, thanks mate |
| 19:09.18 | wurp2|working | np :-) |
| 19:09.29 | *** join/#openmoko dracozna (i=thomas@cc408686-b.leek1.gr.home.nl) |
| 19:09.49 | baba_melone | qtopia has no x? cool, but this doesnt mean you cant use gtk |
| 19:09.59 | baba_melone | does qtopia use directfb? |
| 19:10.11 | baba_melone | then gtk is available too, im pretty sure |
| 19:10.31 | lpotter | qtextended uses QWS |
| 19:10.33 | wurp2|working | baba_melone: If you can get gtk to run on Qtopia I'm sure you could make a lot of people happy |
| 19:10.44 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-34-53.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:10.48 | lpotter | xqt |
| 19:10.49 | baba_melone | possible!!! |
| 19:10.53 | lpotter | port that |
| 19:11.01 | Dave | QtXXX |
| 19:11.25 | baba_melone | is there a software overview of qtopia? |
| 19:11.27 | wurp2|working | Dave: Sounds like a porn site |
| 19:12.24 | wurp2|working | baba_melone: I can give you an overview: much snappier phone support, slick interface, sms, media player, all stable |
| 19:12.27 | baba_melone | pornview on neo freerunner? |
| 19:12.36 | baba_melone | gps? |
| 19:12.40 | wurp2|working | You can read & edit text docs... and there are a few other apps |
| 19:12.50 | baba_melone | hm |
| 19:12.51 | wurp2|working | baba_melone: No gps app for 4.3.2 afaik |
| 19:12.57 | wurp2|working | lpotter would know about 4.4 |
| 19:13.02 | zerghase | wurp2|working: the qtopia media player sucks |
| 19:13.11 | baba_melone | doesnt sound that cool...rather lame end-user stuff |
| 19:13.17 | wurp2|working | I finally gave up gps to get stable phone :-( |
| 19:13.27 | wurp2|working | zerghase: In comparison to what? |
| 19:13.32 | baba_melone | it only sucks that I hace to reboot so often using ASU, because of the sound... |
| 19:13.37 | zerghase | for example mpd on debian |
| 19:13.50 | wurp2|working | zerghase: Dunno, haven't tried debian on the phone |
| 19:14.20 | wurp2|working | but qtopia's media player is better than the one on 2007.2 |
| 19:14.39 | zerghase | the 2007.2 didnt work at all for me |
| 19:14.39 | wurp2|working | baba_melone: I thought you were looking for stable... |
| 19:14.51 | wurp2|working | zerghase: You must have gotten a bad image |
| 19:14.56 | wurp2|working | Older 2007.2 works fine |
| 19:15.06 | zerghase | the media player always crashed |
| 19:15.11 | wurp2|working | I've had a gta01 since January, so my experience is pretty different than people on the FR |
| 19:15.11 | baba_melone | baba_melone: well I only said that Id like to get rid of rebooting |
| 19:15.18 | wurp2|working | zerghase: It never does for me... |
| 19:15.45 | wurp2|working | baba_melone: I'd think debian is the release to go for if you want something 'cool' |
| 19:15.48 | zerghase | so I had the most stable media-playing with debian |
| 19:15.56 | wurp2|working | zerghase: I can see that |
| 19:15.57 | baba_melone | yeah i know |
| 19:16.05 | zerghase | but debian is really bad as phone |
| 19:16.07 | baba_melone | but my sd card is too small |
| 19:16.14 | zerghase | Oh yes |
| 19:16.14 | wurp2|working | baba_melone: smaller than 500 mb? |
| 19:16.15 | baba_melone | only 512mb |
| 19:16.27 | zerghase | if you want to install anything besides the default apps in debian, you need more |
| 19:16.30 | baba_melone | and I installed xfce and the sd card was full |
| 19:16.30 | wurp2|working | You can fit debian plus maybe 30 meg of other stuff on that from what I've heard |
| 19:16.36 | wurp2|working | baba_melone: :-( |
| 19:16.38 | wurp2|working | Buy another one |
| 19:16.43 | wurp2|working | $6 for 2gb |
| 19:16.47 | baba_melone | i know |
| 19:16.57 | baba_melone | I will buy a 8gb card in a few days |
| 19:16.58 | zerghase | 25⬠for 8gb ^^ |
| 19:17.11 | baba_melone | yeah, I found one for 16⬠on ebay |
| 19:17.17 | Dave | yeah :P |
| 19:17.18 | zerghase | nice |
| 19:17.20 | Dave | el cheapo |
| 19:17.31 | wurp2|working | I'm holding out until I can get rid of a Radio Shack gift card by buying an 8gb sd there for <= $40 |
| 19:18.13 | wurp2|working | Sorry, stupid american terminal here. I dunno what unit of money is ^a,] |
| 19:18.32 | zerghase | you should use utf-8 ^^ |
| 19:18.57 | zerghase | It was the euro sign |
| 19:19.35 | wurp2|working | k |
| 19:19.47 | baba_melone | lulz |
| 19:21.59 | *** join/#openmoko wipf (i=wipf@vpn055a.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de) |
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| 19:24.35 | Dave | hmm |
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| 19:29.50 | j4p13j0 | Hi all ! Just ordered a FR today, and hoping to get it sometime next week. I've been reading the wiki about developing and cross-compiling but not sure what OS to use on the FR. |
| 19:30.28 | j4p13j0 | Is the new framework any stable yet ? |
| 19:30.50 | *** join/#openmoko chomwitt_ (n=chomwitt@adsl74-151.ath.forthnet.gr) |
| 19:31.56 | j4p13j0 | And what version of Qt does that support ? If I would compile against Qt 4.4 libs, would that be compatible with the ASU ? |
| 19:33.18 | j4p13j0 | I had some experience recompiling stuff for an archos PMA430, but that was pretty straithforward (Qt 3 stuff) |
| 19:34.22 | j4p13j0 | Not sure where to start really ... |
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| 19:36.50 | j4p13j0 | ping .... |
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| 19:38.43 | LionKMP | if you find the answers, please update the wiki page ;-D |
| 19:41.03 | j4p13j0 | I'm mostly interested to find out what toolchain is what, is a bit confusing. |
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| 19:42.02 | j4p13j0 | I'm not even sure what OS my FR ships with, but it's easy to reconfigure right ? |
| 19:42.25 | LionKMP | it ships with Om 2007.2, but that's very much outdated and abandoned. |
| 19:42.38 | LionKMP | you can easily re-flash it with Om 2008.9 for example. |
| 19:43.02 | LionKMP | (I use that, so any developer questions I ask regaring only Om 2008.9, to avoid "IF"s in the answers :) ) |
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| 19:45.28 | wurp2|working | LionKMP: 2007.2 is outdated and abandoned, and better than anything else from OM :-( |
| 19:46.03 | wurp2|working | j4p13j0: The kernel is shared between Qtopia and 2008.9, and that's essentially all |
| 19:46.25 | wurp2|working | Although you can build qt apps and run them on either Qtopia or 2008.9. I'm not sure if that requires a rebuild... |
| 19:46.52 | wurp2|working | efl is probably the 'official' OM gui toolkit, if there could be said to be such a thing |
| 19:47.18 | j4p13j0 | So 2008.9 is ASU based right ? For what GUI should programs be written ? GTK+ or Qt ? Does either one eventually be deprecated ? |
| 19:47.34 | j4p13j0 | Not familiar with efl .. |
| 19:47.42 | wurp2|working | j4p13j0: The toolchain is to let you compile basic stuff w/o building a full crosscompile environment. If you're doing significant dev work, you need the full cross-compile environment (mokomakefile is the easiest way to do this) |
| 19:48.05 | LionKMP | wurp2|working: "full" is that OE? |
| 19:48.16 | wurp2|working | 2008.9 is sort of another name for ASU. I personally wouldn't write apps in qt because they can't interact with X apps very well |
| 19:48.23 | wurp2|working | LionKMP: yeah |
| 19:48.36 | wurp2|working | I recommend GTK or e |
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| 19:48.47 | wurp2|working | qt *might* eventually be deprecated |
| 19:49.17 | wurp2|working | GTK and efl are almost certain to continue to work on OM releases |
| 19:49.25 | wurp2|working | efl = enlightenment foundation libraries |
| 19:49.40 | wurp2|working | e == efl == enlightenment |
| 19:49.58 | j4p13j0 | I'm not a devver really, but sometimes manage to port or recompile stuff to fit the device, do repackaging etc.. |
| 19:50.20 | wurp2|working | On the other hand, the only image that "just works" on the neo is Qtopia |
| 19:50.29 | lpotter | :) of course |
| 19:50.57 | wurp2|working | Well, you guys do have a bit of an advantage in software maturity & manpower |
| 19:51.07 | wurp2|working | Not that that's any reason not to run it :-) |
| 19:51.57 | LionKMP | when I installed Qtopia there were 9 apps for it. Now I have Om 2008.9 and I install whatever I want http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications |
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| 19:52.18 | wurp2|working | LionKMP: On the other hand, you can make & receive phone calls & SMS ;-) |
| 19:52.20 | lpotter | well, how many aps are you going to install? |
| 19:52.35 | LionKMP | wurp2|working: nah, who wants that, I have a phone ;-D |
| 19:52.35 | lpotter | besides, what else do you need that qtopia doesn;t have? |
| 19:52.38 | wurp2|working | lpotter: is 4.4 out for gta01? |
| 19:52.46 | wurp2|working | lpotter: gps :-) |
| 19:52.50 | lpotter | wurp2|working: not yet. will do an image today |
| 19:52.56 | wurp2|working | lpotter: Excellent, thanks! |
| 19:52.58 | lpotter | qtextended has gps |
| 19:53.16 | wurp2|working | lpotter: Fantastic, I'll be looking into it. |
| 19:53.18 | lpotter | and there are 3rd party apps that use gps as well |
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| 19:53.31 | wurp2|working | lpotter: The only 3rd party app I could find for gps didn't work |
| 19:53.34 | dolf1074 | lpotter: I can't ssh into my qt 4.4, anything changed? |
| 19:53.38 | LionKMP | lpotter: sorry, I appreicate the work, don't misunderstand me. I just want a small linux box, not a phone, in Neo. :) |
| 19:53.42 | wurp2|working | Rather, I installed it, and then I could see no way to run it |
| 19:53.56 | wurp2|working | LionKMP: Why not one of the gp2x descendants, then? |
| 19:54.25 | j4p13j0 | Doesn't QpeGPS work on Qtopia ? |
| 19:54.27 | LionKMP | wurp2|working: too late, I have Neo here already. (wow are there descendants of gp2x? :) ) |
| 19:54.29 | dolf1074 | also the USB connection mode don't launch an application |
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| 19:55.29 | wurp2|working | LionKMP: OpenPandora |
| 19:55.33 | wurp2|working | For at least one |
| 19:55.49 | wurp2|working | j4p13j0: Not for me |
| 19:56.08 | wurp2|working | I installed it; I could see no way to run it - no obvious command and no icon |
| 19:56.44 | wurp2|working | I didn't look for all the files the package installed, because I found something on the web that indicated it was only intended for some other platform anyway |
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| 19:57.32 | j4p13j0 | I suppose Qt3 apps no longer work in Qt4.x ? |
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| 19:59.56 | lindi- | j4p13j0: why not have both libs? |
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| 20:03.40 | j4p13j0 | lindi: Not sure... maybe memory footprint could be a downside. And not sure if qt3 and qt4 apps integrate that well. There's a whole lot of openzaurus software that is qt3 compatible... |
| 20:06.33 | LionKMP | you can start using the toolchain cross development without the device too. |
| 20:06.33 | LionKMP | you just can't run the resulting program, but if you reach a compiled binary, you should be already very happy :D |
| 20:06.34 | lpotter | zaurus was qt2 |
| 20:07.04 | j4p13j0 | But I don't know if these can be easily ported to qt4 either, that would be better. But then again, if efl or gtk is the way for the future. |
| 20:07.19 | lpotter | ha |
| 20:07.29 | lpotter | if they ever work. |
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| 20:08.04 | j4p13j0 | lpotter: Oh, well. Never mind that then. Too outdated, me and that software ;-) |
| 20:08.30 | lpotter | i dont beleive efl OR gtk is 'the way for the future' |
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| 20:10.08 | wurp2|working | lpotter: Spoken like a true Qtopia dev ;-) |
| 20:10.52 | wurp2|working | I do think FSO plus e will make a good platform someday |
| 20:11.02 | wurp2|working | But I have no idea when that day might come :-( |
| 20:11.24 | lpotter | there is only now... man :) |
| 20:11.30 | j4p13j0 | lpotter: Yeah, I think I remember you from openpma en pma430 irc or mailinglist |
| 20:11.49 | lpotter | hmm. ya, my pma is gather dust |
| 20:12.08 | lpotter | we had a prototype with a CF slot instead of wifi |
| 20:12.44 | j4p13j0 | Still use it as a mp3player @work ... |
| 20:13.22 | j4p13j0 | But looking forward to my FR ;-) |
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| 20:18.14 | bmidgley | what uboot is required to boot debian from sd? |
| 20:18.24 | lindi- | bmidgley: anything should do? |
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| 20:19.34 | bmidgley | hmm. using 1.3.2-rc2 on neo1973 I get an error reading uImage.bin |
| 20:20.50 | bmidgley | I followed the instructions on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnNeo1973 |
| 20:21.14 | philhug | bmidgley: you probably need to reconfigure uboot to load uImage from ext2 partition instead of FAT |
| 20:21.14 | bmidgley | just had to hack a bit to get the fso task (debian unstable broke) |
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| 20:21.54 | bmidgley | philhug: it does use ext2load, per the instructions |
| 20:22.13 | lindi- | bmidgley: how is unstable broken today? ;) |
| 20:23.10 | bmidgley | it happens :) |
| 20:26.40 | bmidgley | anyone see an issue with this u-boot output? http://pastebin.com/d1b6a656e |
| 20:26.50 | bmidgley | minicom crops line lines btw |
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| 20:28.32 | philhug | I think you need a newer uboot to boot from SD card |
| 20:29.16 | pb_ | bmidgley: ^a-w will make it wrap lines rather than truncating them |
| 20:30.00 | bmidgley | pb_ thx |
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| 20:32.29 | bricode | What's the latest stable 2.6.24 kernel branch for OM? |
| 20:37.33 | mwester | bricode: "stable" |
| 20:37.45 | bricode | mwester: Slick. Thanks. |
| 20:40.03 | LionKMP | is there any time in the day when #openmoko-cdevel channel is not dead? |
| 20:40.33 | LionKMP | I can't compile nothing and nobody never answers. :-) |
| 20:42.01 | lindi- | LionKMP: install debian to chroot and apt-get install build-essential, then you can compile :) |
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| 20:42.50 | LionKMP | hm, everyone points to different distributions. |
| 20:43.14 | lindi- | LionKMP: i use debian precisely because i'm guaranteed that apt-get --build source works |
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| 20:43.53 | LionKMP | should be possible on Om too. :( |
| 20:44.19 | Gnutoo | hello, when i launch vim file.c vim doesn't react like i'm used to(normally i call it with vim command and i've got the vim mode)...what should i do? is there a vim command to put it in vim mode? |
| 20:44.25 | LionKMP | i wonder how community developers succededed (if any) |
| 20:44.54 | Gnutoo | solved calling it vi... |
| 20:45.03 | lindi- | LionKMP: but seriously, bitbake probably works but you need to spend a lot of time to figure it out |
| 20:45.07 | LionKMP | Gnutoo: what? vim for me works exacly like usually.. ? |
| 20:45.26 | lindi- | LionKMP: i can fix more bugs by using debian so i use it right now. the fixes all go to upstream so it shouldn't matter |
| 20:45.34 | Gnutoo | LionKMP, i've gentoo...mabe they customised vim... |
| 20:45.34 | LionKMP | lindi-: do you mean the complete OE build? |
| 20:45.43 | lindi- | LionKMP: yeap |
| 20:46.11 | LionKMP | lindi-: hm, ok, I tried that (too) 3-4 times, but not recently (always failed building after some hours :) ) |
| 20:46.18 | LionKMP | on an error i was unable to fix. |
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| 20:47.05 | lindi- | LionKMP: i did that too, for a few weeks |
| 20:47.17 | LionKMP | lindi-: what apps you compile on that debian? qtopia-x11- apps? or the openmoko-mediaplayer2 and friends? |
| 20:48.00 | lindi- | LionKMP: i use freesmartphone.org reference implementation for my calls |
| 20:48.37 | lindi- | LionKMP: the packages are fso-frameworkd fso-gpsd fso-utils gsm0710muxd |
| 20:49.10 | LionKMP | hm... ok, those are "system stuff". :-p |
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| 20:49.20 | lindi- | LionKMP: system stuff? |
| 20:49.28 | LionKMP | daemons and so |
| 20:49.28 | lindi- | LionKMP: i use mplayer mostly |
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| 20:49.40 | lindi- | LionKMP: for audio and video |
| 20:49.54 | LionKMP | I didn't ask what you use, I asked what you compile. (and submit patches, you mentioned) |
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| 20:50.28 | lindi- | LionKMP: i have compiled those packages |
| 20:50.33 | lindi- | (not mplayer though) |
| 20:50.45 | LionKMP | I see. |
| 20:50.49 | lindi- | LionKMP: i have also sent bug reports to matchbox-keyboard |
| 20:51.01 | lindi- | x11vnc also crashes |
| 20:51.17 | LionKMP | what does not :) |
| 20:51.41 | lindi- | LionKMP: please see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?submitter=timo.lindfors%40iki.fi for my open bugs right now |
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| 20:53.56 | LionKMP | hm, ok, you meant debian upstream. |
| 20:54.05 | lindi- | LionKMP: hmm? |
| 20:54.26 | LionKMP | not Openmoko upstream |
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| 20:54.50 | LionKMP | sorry, I am confused I think. |
| 20:54.59 | lindi- | LionKMP: if some apps developed by openmoko inc are packaged to debian then they will get bug reports too |
| 20:55.11 | lindi- | LionKMP: but at the moment only freesmartphone.org apps i think |
| 20:55.29 | lindi- | LionKMP: ah and xserver-xglamo |
| 20:55.37 | LionKMP | I see |
| 20:55.52 | lindi- | LionKMP: the upstream of xserver-xglamo, kernel and uboot is openmoko inc |
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| 20:56.30 | lindi- | LionKMP: then you have phone software from freesmartphone.org and then a large pool of "normal" debian packages |
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| 21:04.37 | soltys | my om2007.2 gone nuts.. |
| 21:05.00 | soltys | on the screen i only get the aplets in tke up right corner and nothing else... |
| 21:05.02 | soltys | nay ideas ? |
| 21:05.11 | soltys | *any |
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| 21:11.03 | slaxxin | try the newest qt extended |
| 21:11.17 | wurp2|working | soltys: Is openmoko-today2 running? |
| 21:13.52 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@212.98.171.14) |
| 21:13.58 | soltys | wurp2|working: ps aux | grep today |
| 21:13.58 | soltys | root 1431 0.9 0.0 0 0 ? Z 23:06 0:04 [openmoko-today] <defunct> |
| 21:14.17 | wurp2|working | soltys: That's your problem |
| 21:14.29 | soltys | hm ? |
| 21:14.34 | wurp2|working | There is a line out in matchbox-session, I think, that kicks openmoko-today off |
| 21:14.53 | soltys | it worked well since over a month... |
| 21:14.54 | wurp2|working | You could try setting your DISPLAY and manually entering that line to see how (and if) it fails |
| 21:15.02 | wurp2|working | I dunno why it's broken |
| 21:15.16 | wurp2|working | But if you don't have openmoko-today running, you don't have the home screen |
| 21:15.30 | wurp2|working | I assume rebooting didn't help |
| 21:15.42 | soltys | yeap you;re right |
| 21:17.09 | bmidgley | philhug the latest bootloader boots debian fine :) |
| 21:17.18 | soltys | wurp2|working: http://wklej.to/emG my /etc/matchbox/session .. |
| 21:18.06 | philhug | cool |
| 21:18.09 | soltys | damn not the whole one copied |
| 21:18.40 | soltys | http://wklej.to/nYR this is the full one.. |
| 21:20.24 | soltys | hm when i start openmoko-today it segfaults :| |
| 21:21.13 | soltys | and that is strange about hour ago it worked well ... |
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| 21:58.28 | philhug | should the qt-extended support voip? |
| 22:00.01 | wurp2|working | soltys: Sorry, I switched to another window |
| 22:00.08 | wurp2|working | The segfault is your issue ;-) |
| 22:00.20 | wurp2|working | You could try running under strace to see what it is doing when it craps out |
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| 22:02.05 | wurp2|working | toggles_w: It looks as if you'll get the latest fso & zhone if you install debian |
| 22:03.05 | max_posedon | philhug, I think they will in next release may be, but in 4.4.2-image I can't find any voip client. |
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| 22:10.07 | philhug | I think it's a configure option |
| 22:10.24 | philhug | but maybe some code is missing in the GPL part |
| 22:12.10 | Dave | wurp2|failing |
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| 22:13.33 | wurp2|working | What'd I do? |
| 22:13.59 | Dave | worksegv? |
| 22:14.10 | Dave | ;p |
| 22:14.16 | wurp2|working | That's not me, that's soltys |
| 22:14.20 | Dave | Oh |
| 22:14.30 | Dave | Carry on, then. |
| 22:14.32 | wurp2|working | I was just telling him how to debug it |
| 22:14.37 | wurp2|working | kthx |
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| 22:15.39 | Toaster` | Quick question, on 2008.9 does one need to setup a wpa_supplicant.conf file if one is using the gui for a WPA2 connection? |
| 22:16.07 | Toaster` | And/Or is everything still flaky when it comes to wifi? |
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| 22:21.49 | Toaster` | Quick question, on 2008.9 does one need to setup a wpa_supplicant.conf file if one is using the gui for a WPA2 connection? |
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| 22:24.33 | wurp2|working | Toaster`: You should wait at least 7 minutes between repeating the exact same question |
| 22:25.18 | Dave | :P |
| 22:25.28 | wurp2|working | Which is my snarky way of saying I have no idea |
| 22:25.30 | Dave | hits wurp2's snooze |
| 22:25.35 | Dave | :D |
| 22:28.58 | Toaster` | wurp2|working: heh, fair enough. I did wait 5 though. Anyone have a clue though? |
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| 22:30.46 | *** join/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@gateway.penguincomputing.com) |
| 22:34.17 | lestat | i can't find how to install man pages :\ |
| 22:38.08 | *** part/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@gateway.penguincomputing.com) |
| 22:41.18 | *** join/#openmoko freelock_ (n=john@logan.freelock.com) |
| 22:42.27 | slaxxin | im not sure but if u use fdom it just asks for the password!! |
| 22:42.46 | slaxxin | phrase |
| 22:42.53 | slaxxin | key whatever |
| 22:43.10 | Dave | slaxxin |
| 22:43.15 | slaxxin | yay |
| 22:43.45 | slaxxin | watisit |
| 22:44.07 | *** join/#openmoko rufus_ (n=rufus@c-98-228-181-211.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:44.27 | slaxxin | superdave |
| 22:44.55 | slaxxin | u got the qtexcruded image |
| 22:45.36 | slaxxin | it does bluetooth out of the box |
| 22:45.42 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178000228.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:45.59 | slaxxin | only 64 megs |
| 22:46.00 | wurp2|working | Toaster`: btw, I do the same thing :-) |
| 22:47.59 | *** part/#openmoko rooly|away (n=chris@ip68-226-155-3.lf.br.cox.net) |
| 22:49.00 | slaxxin | wurp dave is mumbling at me somebody needs to check up on him |
| 22:49.14 | slaxxin | make sure hes ok |
| 22:50.03 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-218-145.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 22:51.23 | slaxxin | dave ,,,DAVE,,,,,,,,,,,, W A K E U P!!!! |
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| 23:00.20 | *** join/#openmoko Pyrasi (n=dan@74-140-180-181.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 23:00.57 | *** part/#openmoko Proton23 (n=proton@p57BA49D3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 23:06.14 | kgoetz | o_0 how can 'w' not know how many HZ the cpu is :S |
| 23:06.50 | viq | consistently ;) |
| 23:07.03 | kgoetz | oh :/ |
| 23:09.45 | *** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@p5B14955F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:10.32 | *** part/#openmoko FilipLinux4BE (n=Filip@77.109.122.187) |
| 23:13.31 | *** join/#openmoko aliases123 (n=alias@unaffiliated/aliases123) |
| 23:19.00 | *** join/#openmoko j4v4m4n (n=j4v4m4n@65.217.70.131) |
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| 23:19.56 | j4v4m4n | /msg nickserv |
| 23:20.32 | j4v4m4n | hi |
| 23:20.53 | j4v4m4n | how do I input in browser? |
| 23:24.15 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@124-170-117-193.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:24.39 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@74.13.229.226) |
| 23:25.34 | Dave | SLAXIN |
| 23:25.39 | Dave | Hi Joerg :) |
| 23:27.44 | j4v4m4n | dave hi |
| 23:27.52 | Dave | Greetings :) |
| 23:28.11 | j4v4m4n | I have a FreeRunner |
| 23:28.23 | Dave | Congratulations. |
| 23:28.24 | j4v4m4n | figuring out how to use the browser |
| 23:28.27 | Dave | heh |
| 23:28.28 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176115151.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:28.41 | j4v4m4n | how do I input anything in text boxes? |
| 23:35.32 | lestat | oops i added the angstrom repo but now when i boot the neo free runner it ask me to login before X is started but the there is no keyboard yet :'( |
| 23:37.17 | lestat | i got ssh access, is there a simple way to start x without asking to login before ? |
| 23:39.53 | *** join/#openmoko ezekiel-v3 (n=ezekiel@h-67-100-144-50.nycmny83.covad.net) |
| 23:42.37 | lestat | also when i push some buttons i see messages about irq etc |
| 23:45.03 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-218-145.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 23:46.21 | lestat | i got that error when trying to start graphical application: |
| 23:46.23 | lestat | openmoko-terminal2: error while loading shared libraries: libgobject-2.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 23:47.18 | *** join/#openmoko ||Leto|| (n=tomboy64@e178043026.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 23:50.37 | Dave | lesfail |
| 23:50.41 | *** part/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@bofh.xelerance.com) |
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