| 00:00.15 | MnemonicPunk | Say what you will about Google (I personally don't like them) biut they almost have a huge impact on any market they enter. |
| 00:00.21 | Tig|_ | OSX is built on an OS kernel and freebsd userland but is one of the most controlled environments ever |
| 00:01.37 | MnemonicPunk | They had a few duds, yes, but their success rate is scary. |
| 00:02.35 | MnemonicPunk | And while no one's looking, they're adding GSM tracking to your Google account. ;) |
| 00:02.45 | MnemonicPunk | *GPS |
| 00:02.46 | ieatlint | the java crap of android truly is the biggest issue i have with it |
| 00:02.51 | MnemonicPunk | Well, GSM too, I guess. |
| 00:03.15 | *** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@p5B149502.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:03.29 | ieatlint | i am hoping, likely in vain, that google will relent on that |
| 00:03.45 | MnemonicPunk | They won't. |
| 00:03.47 | Tig|_ | ieatlint: yeah the jave write once oh crap we need to do what to get it to compile? |
| 00:04.18 | ieatlint | huh? |
| 00:04.24 | MnemonicPunk | All their stuff is so tightly tied to the Dalvik VM, they probably even CAN'T kill the Java part before the G1 ships. xD |
| 00:04.33 | ieatlint | you use a java compiler with a special set of libraries... |
| 00:05.27 | ieatlint | well, i preordered one of the g1s... so i'll see |
| 00:06.37 | MnemonicPunk | Heh. ^^ |
| 00:07.03 | ieatlint | what i'm impressed with is that android supposedly doesn't support stereo over bluetooth or multitouch (both of which are supported by the hardware) |
| 00:07.10 | MnemonicPunk | I guess the G1 is the reason why Android is still part closed source. |
| 00:07.35 | MnemonicPunk | Google wanted a piece of the "exclusive marketing deal with T-Mobile" pie. ;p |
| 00:08.01 | ieatlint | eh, it also makes companies less nervous about it all |
| 00:08.19 | MnemonicPunk | Sure. |
| 00:08.41 | ieatlint | if they open it up after it's already in the hands of consumers, then the companies can't simply dump the product |
| 00:08.43 | MnemonicPunk | If Google AND T-Mobile trust it, it must be a first-class internet device and a first-class phone. ;) |
| 00:09.14 | ieatlint | i've personally no issues with either company |
| 00:09.29 | ieatlint | i realise the amount of personal data google mines from its users |
| 00:09.31 | mwester | Well, that's why I welcome it to the market -- I think it will make the Om devices more acceptable to all. |
| 00:09.35 | MnemonicPunk | I dislike both, for different reasons. ^^ |
| 00:09.52 | ieatlint | but... eh, they don't lie about it, and they've not shown any malign |
| 00:10.26 | MnemonicPunk | Google? They may not lie but they certainly try to trick you into giving more data then you want to. |
| 00:10.56 | Zorkman | trick? |
| 00:11.01 | ieatlint | i don't recall being tricked |
| 00:11.01 | MnemonicPunk | Example: |
| 00:11.11 | MnemonicPunk | The web protocol, you know that? |
| 00:11.27 | ieatlint | ? |
| 00:11.31 | ieatlint | you mean, http? |
| 00:11.34 | MnemonicPunk | No. |
| 00:11.39 | MnemonicPunk | Google Web Protocol |
| 00:11.47 | ieatlint | then no |
| 00:11.48 | zash | google:// |
| 00:11.53 | MnemonicPunk | That's there they track anything you do on Google and log that. |
| 00:12.16 | MnemonicPunk | Like: 13:45:11 Search for "openmoko", clicked third result |
| 00:12.25 | ieatlint | uhm, they don't lie about that |
| 00:12.30 | ieatlint | they even show you that data |
| 00:12.30 | zash | can they see which result one clicks on? |
| 00:12.38 | MnemonicPunk | They do show it, yes. |
| 00:12.47 | MnemonicPunk | That's not the problem I had with that feature. |
| 00:12.54 | ieatlint | zash, yes, you load a google url that forwards you to the site when you click on a result |
| 00:13.13 | MnemonicPunk | But it reactivates itself from time to time, even if you explicitly turn it off. |
| 00:13.18 | zash | and they have ads on shitloads of sites |
| 00:13.29 | MnemonicPunk | So... |
| 00:13.31 | ieatlint | MnemonicPunk, then get pissed at your browser for deleting the cookie |
| 00:13.54 | MnemonicPunk | The setting is linked to my Google Account. |
| 00:14.10 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@c-76-105-93-212.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 00:14.21 | MnemonicPunk | So whenever I'm logged in, it should stop logging. |
| 00:14.32 | MnemonicPunk | But Google even tracks you across several IPs. |
| 00:14.33 | ieatlint | well, i'm entirely aware of how much google tracks me |
| 00:14.49 | ieatlint | what i'm not aware of is how much the government tracks me, and that's what bothers me |
| 00:15.25 | mwester | knows just how incompetent the US government is, and doesn't worry about them tracking him. Instead, he worries about private companies doing that. |
| 00:15.26 | ieatlint | but google knowing i'm a perverted, democratic, linux geek somehow doesn't bother me |
| 00:15.27 | MnemonicPunk | If you don't delete the Google cookie right after an IP change, they relate the IPs. |
| 00:15.50 | *** join/#openmoko tholme (n=tholme@189.80-202-99.nextgentel.com) |
| 00:15.52 | ieatlint | mwester, the government is incompetent, but the nsa isn't |
| 00:16.13 | MnemonicPunk | ieatlint: It started scaring me when I visitied Google Groups the first time and it automatically suggested 10 groups that "I might be interested in" |
| 00:16.34 | MnemonicPunk | I recognized for most of them, how they related to my search terms. |
| 00:16.41 | MnemonicPunk | Of the last 4-6 weeks. |
| 00:16.45 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@124-170-117-193.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:16.48 | ieatlint | shrugs |
| 00:17.11 | ieatlint | i don't care enough... i know they mine massive amounts of data |
| 00:17.21 | roh | well.. if your browser accepts googles cookies, you have js on by default/do not block it AND you are logged in, you make it more than easy for them |
| 00:17.34 | MnemonicPunk | roh: True. =( |
| 00:17.49 | roh | if youre paranoid use http://www.scroogle.org or something like it |
| 00:18.12 | lindi- | over tor :) |
| 00:18.22 | roh | *gg* |
| 00:18.25 | MnemonicPunk | It's not that I'm paranoid. I don't go panicking only because someone tries to gather data. |
| 00:18.40 | MnemonicPunk | But I don't want anyone to know more than he really needs to. |
| 00:19.06 | mwester | I've stopped caring. |
| 00:19.18 | MnemonicPunk | Why does Google have to scrape every single site I visit only because there*s an ad in it? |
| 00:19.23 | mwester | Nothing I do is that unique; I get lost in the large numbers. |
| 00:19.53 | ieatlint | MnemonicPunk, it allows them to better target products and ads |
| 00:20.02 | ieatlint | which makes them a more profitable company |
| 00:20.29 | MnemonicPunk | Sure but they could at least respect my privacy and ask first. |
| 00:20.52 | ieatlint | if you have a google account, they did ask -- you didn't read |
| 00:21.03 | MnemonicPunk | But no, they just set a oookie. In case I already had one, they (again) relate the search data to the browsing data. |
| 00:21.15 | MnemonicPunk | I know, if you have one you accepted it. |
| 00:21.32 | MnemonicPunk | But they even do that if you don't have an account. |
| 00:22.04 | ieatlint | well, perhaps you should go into a local retail store and start yelling at them for not asking if it was ok for their security cameras to record you |
| 00:22.10 | Guest53760 | they just don't correlate it to your google account.. true |
| 00:22.31 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03werner * r4672 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches/ (5 files): |
| 00:22.31 | CIA-22 | openmoko: First steps towards getting S3C SPI to work. Still freaks out at higher |
| 00:22.31 | CIA-22 | openmoko: clock speeds and interrupt mode is actually the least efficient possible |
| 00:22.31 | CIA-22 | openmoko: mode. |
| 00:22.32 | Guest53760 | it's just OS-user/browser based |
| 00:22.56 | _Bill_ | darn.. someone holds my nick :P |
| 00:23.05 | MnemonicPunk | Nah, the security cameras are not there for selling more stuff. ;) They are to prevent people from stealing it. |
| 00:23.33 | _Bill_ | it used to be like this |
| 00:23.44 | ieatlint | ok, but in the end, the concept is to increase income for the ompany |
| 00:23.46 | ieatlint | company |
| 00:23.50 | raster | MnemonicPunk: you use thier products and services |
| 00:23.56 | MnemonicPunk | Yes, that's true. |
| 00:23.59 | MnemonicPunk | ^^ |
| 00:24.01 | _Bill_ | now they are used to scan what you are browsing most in the store so they can position better in the future |
| 00:24.02 | raster | (the moment you go to google.com... you are using them) |
| 00:24.10 | MnemonicPunk | I know, raster. |
| 00:24.14 | raster | ylu use them to search |
| 00:24.19 | raster | you are free to not do so |
| 00:24.24 | raster | and thus.. not give them any info |
| 00:24.29 | raster | you still have a choice :) |
| 00:24.40 | ieatlint | kinda my point |
| 00:24.42 | MnemonicPunk | Only a partial one though, raster. |
| 00:24.48 | raster | though i'm with mwester. i gave up careing long ago |
| 00:24.53 | ieatlint | you don't want the security cameras to record you, don't go to the store |
| 00:24.54 | _Bill_ | same here |
| 00:24.59 | _Bill_ | at least to some point |
| 00:25.05 | raster | you are an anonymous number |
| 00:25.09 | raster | a cookie # |
| 00:25.21 | raster | they know that that # goes around doing things |
| 00:25.23 | MnemonicPunk | Or did you ever see a "Warning! This page tracks your reading behaviour and visited websites!" message besides a Google ad? |
| 00:25.23 | *** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD45BCD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:25.27 | raster | they dont necessarily know its YOU |
| 00:25.27 | Zorkman | hello raster, I flashed Om2008.9 and I can't find illume-config and illume-config-illume anywhere (not in stesting, not in unstable) is there a way to get your keyboard and the spanner/wrench? |
| 00:25.40 | _Bill_ | i still don't run with the pack to whom a google office is the only true meka and who share their most intimate details over orkut or blogspot |
| 00:25.47 | ieatlint | although it would be awesome if your guest pass to google had the cookie # on it |
| 00:25.52 | raster | Zorkman: no idea. i dotn use/work on etc. 2008.09 |
| 00:25.59 | MnemonicPunk | lol |
| 00:26.08 | raster | _Bill_: same. |
| 00:26.20 | Zorkman | raster: thanks thought it was worth a try :) |
| 00:26.21 | raster | i like MY dataq with ME |
| 00:26.22 | ieatlint | "Oh, hey, it's you 02F9AB84! You manage to find that sex store you were searching for on Google Maps yesterday?" |
| 00:26.26 | raster | on MY hdd's |
| 00:26.28 | _Bill_ | raster: yeah |
| 00:26.34 | raster | not somewhere in the cloud |
| 00:26.38 | MnemonicPunk | "Don't ya go losing that or we'll garbage collect you!" |
| 00:26.45 | _Bill_ | i own my personal data and they better have a damn good reason for gathering it |
| 00:27.15 | raster | if all they do is watch waht i do as i fumble about usin their FREE servics |
| 00:27.16 | raster | fine |
| 00:27.22 | raster | i dont care |
| 00:27.26 | MnemonicPunk | But after so much negativity about Google from my side... I like them, from a technical standpoint. They've had some good ideas and some good plans well executed. |
| 00:27.28 | _Bill_ | yup |
| 00:27.33 | ieatlint | _Bill_, they have a d-day set, when they will import 50 million chinese people who've they been training to take over your identity |
| 00:27.41 | _Bill_ | lol |
| 00:27.44 | raster | but fucked if they are going to get all the detailed content of my private data or business data |
| 00:27.47 | MnemonicPunk | I just don't want them snooping deeper into my private stuff then I knowingly allow them. |
| 00:28.02 | raster | imho anyone using google docs is not doign themselves (or their business) a favor. |
| 00:28.06 | _Bill_ | yeah.. how did userfriendly say about it... their moto is "Don't be evil, not don't get rich" |
| 00:28.10 | raster | (from a confidentiality point of view) |
| 00:28.40 | _Bill_ | raster: i do agree.. but it's so difficult to make that undestandable to security illiterate |
| 00:28.44 | MnemonicPunk | I'd never use gmail for anything I consider confidential. o.o |
| 00:29.00 | raster | _Bill_: find an analogy |
| 00:29.02 | raster | eg |
| 00:29.28 | _Bill_ | and i specifically use security-illiterate there.. as there are so many computer-literate persons who don't give a shit about their privacy |
| 00:29.45 | _Bill_ | raster: analogy is not hard to find indeed... |
| 00:30.05 | MnemonicPunk | "Imagine you don't keep your diary at home but have some carry it for you, day for day. You'll have it accessible, anytime, anywhere... But the certain someone can read it whenever he wants to as well!" |
| 00:30.38 | MnemonicPunk | That's how I explained it to my mum. xD |
| 00:30.39 | _Bill_ | MnemonicPunk: point well made |
| 00:30.54 | raster | "imagine all your contracts, bills, personal diary entries - you left them on the train because u ran out of room at home, and you always take gyhe same ttrain to and from work... so whenvr you are there you can pick up your diary and add some entries... but you leave it there. the owners of the train can happiyl read your diaries, inspect your contracts and whatever any time they like as their own the locked box on that train." |
| 00:30.57 | raster | or somthing... |
| 00:31.20 | raster | _Bill_: well security illiterate != give a shit |
| 00:31.25 | raster | u may be 100% literate |
| 00:31.27 | raster | and know all about it |
| 00:31.30 | raster | and still not give a shit |
| 00:31.31 | raster | :) |
| 00:31.34 | MnemonicPunk | Yeh. |
| 00:31.49 | _Bill_ | well.. i kinda excluded straight-on stupid :P |
| 00:32.06 | MnemonicPunk | "Why should I stop using the big blue E? It plays the internet! I don't need another one!" |
| 00:32.08 | *** join/#openmoko johngay (n=john@adsl-153-49-176.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:32.10 | mwester | Yet, consider that once educated, that same person who now is paranoid about checking certificates and such when they give out their credit card # online will go to a restaraunt, and hand the PHYSICAL card (!) to some guy they don't know, who takes it back somewhere else in the back where they cannot see them -- and they are not worried about that. Go figure. |
| 00:32.11 | ieatlint | yeah, ignorant people can be just as paranoid |
| 00:32.24 | ieatlint | i used to be a cashier... and i once upset a paranoid customer |
| 00:32.39 | ieatlint | who was buying something with a credit card, and the store had those touchscreens to sign on.. |
| 00:32.43 | *** join/#openmoko Microtechno (n=ubergeek@219-90-248-29.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 00:33.05 | ieatlint | he refused to sign electronically, because "then they'd have a digital copy of my signature and could make as many copies as they wanted" |
| 00:33.19 | MnemonicPunk | Well... the chance for someone to steal your card at the place he works at is much lower than on the net, but it is certainly not zero. xD |
| 00:33.24 | mwester | I worked for a manager once; he wrote "Ask to see ID" by the signature area on all his credit cards; he said that very few places ever did ask him for his ID. |
| 00:33.36 | ieatlint | i told him they could just scan the paper reciept he signed and make just as many copies.... NOT a good idea to tell those paranoid people |
| 00:33.45 | _Bill_ | mwester: wonders of post-socialist countries (estonia here).. actually.. you use smartcards and they bring the terminal to your table and you enter your pin in your table so that noone can truly observe it and get a check right there |
| 00:34.14 | mwester | I think that's a great idea. |
| 00:34.49 | ieatlint | dpeneds on the encryption scheme for the wireless device ;) |
| 00:35.03 | _Bill_ | analog signatures are anyway too easy to fake these days |
| 00:35.10 | _Bill_ | ieatlint: GSM |
| 00:35.20 | _Bill_ | it's a GSM card-terminal |
| 00:35.40 | _Bill_ | not wifi, not wimax.. not anything a consumer can get their hands on |
| 00:35.52 | MnemonicPunk | Wait. |
| 00:35.56 | ieatlint | interesting |
| 00:36.02 | MnemonicPunk | GSM = GSM as in mobiles? |
| 00:36.05 | _Bill_ | yeah |
| 00:36.13 | raster | mwester: eyah.. then again i logn ago accept3ed that credit cas are just inherently insecure crap. i rely on the "deny p-ayement" fallback for feeling secure |
| 00:36.14 | raster | :) |
| 00:36.16 | _Bill_ | GPRS is the comm-channel |
| 00:36.17 | ieatlint | but i meant more of the type of encryption scheme -- eg, like just an ssl session |
| 00:36.35 | MnemonicPunk | Do they think "noone can program a GSM device to intercept this anyways"? |
| 00:37.03 | mwester | agrees with raster --- and uses multiple credit cards to limit exposure online and while travelling. |
| 00:37.14 | raster | yup |
| 00:37.23 | raster | at least rememebr tokeep recipts |
| 00:37.27 | _Bill_ | MnemonicPunk: GSM transmissions are inherently encrypted anyways.. true... with some effort they are interceptable these days.. but still.. way much more effort that the profot |
| 00:37.31 | _Bill_ | profit |
| 00:37.37 | raster | and check your card statements every month |
| 00:37.40 | raster | and keeep them |
| 00:37.47 | raster | anythign on ther that doesnt match a recipt |
| 00:37.49 | raster | flag it |
| 00:37.50 | _Bill_ | raster: ebanking for that |
| 00:37.50 | raster | call it in |
| 00:37.54 | raster | let the bank deal with it |
| 00:38.06 | raster | _Bill_: i still prefer papr here |
| 00:38.10 | MnemonicPunk | I don't have any experience with that, but I heard only a few days ago that cracking GSM communications is only a matter of minutes. |
| 00:38.10 | raster | basically for lgal reasons |
| 00:38.11 | _Bill_ | hehe |
| 00:38.22 | mwester | _Bill_ makes a fair point; the investment to intercept the GSM credit card info is far too expensive, considering that you can just as well get that same data elsewhere much easier and cheaper. Bribe a shopkeeper. |
| 00:38.24 | raster | (ie walking to court with a papr recipt/bill is much.. easier) |
| 00:38.25 | _Bill_ | raster: you think your analog signature is more safe= |
| 00:38.39 | raster | _Bill_: hell no! |
| 00:38.47 | raster | _Bill_: have u SEEN my signature? |
| 00:38.52 | raster | any signature can be forged |
| 00:38.58 | _Bill_ | raster: nope... but i get the idea |
| 00:38.59 | raster | just stare at it for a bit and try |
| 00:39.06 | raster | doesnt matter how complex |
| 00:39.10 | raster | i gave up |
| 00:39.13 | raster | mines' a squigle |
| 00:39.14 | MnemonicPunk | In some countries you can simply search the trash bin for receipts. ;p |
| 00:39.20 | raster | almost a "x" |
| 00:39.21 | ieatlint | raster, you want funny, just start signing reciepts "void" |
| 00:39.34 | ieatlint | odds are, they won't even notice |
| 00:39.35 | MnemonicPunk | lol |
| 00:39.41 | raster | ieatlint: i know |
| 00:40.00 | _Bill_ | btw.. you also get a receipt in electronic transaction |
| 00:40.00 | raster | i'm so happy when once in a while a store clerk actually looks at my card's signature and the one i wrote down |
| 00:40.03 | raster | to see if they match |
| 00:40.07 | _Bill_ | so it's just as arguable |
| 00:40.09 | MnemonicPunk | function PayWaiter(float fExpectedValue) { return null; } |
| 00:40.25 | Wonka | MnemonicPunk: about GSM encrption: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5/3 |
| 00:40.28 | raster | tho as such i'ma cash-guy |
| 00:40.31 | raster | i pay in cash |
| 00:40.39 | _Bill_ | i've signed my reciepts as "XXX" |
| 00:40.45 | raster | that way i avoid undue exposure to the inherent insecurity of cards |
| 00:40.48 | _Bill_ | noone ever noticed |
| 00:41.06 | _Bill_ | Wonka: yeah.. i know.. |
| 00:41.25 | ieatlint | i never give out my SSN, and that's about the biggest security step i make |
| 00:41.27 | _Bill_ | being former Tele2 Estonias network&billing engineer |
| 00:41.30 | ieatlint | i use plastic constnatly |
| 00:41.31 | raster | i belive in privacy mostly |
| 00:41.45 | raster | but man i cant wait for the day where u ned a dna sample to confimr your identiy |
| 00:41.57 | MnemonicPunk | Luckily we don't have real SSNs here, yet. But our government is working on it. >_> |
| 00:42.08 | raster | or an iris scan |
| 00:42.12 | raster | and tfingerprint |
| 00:42.20 | raster | at least something REALLY hard to forge |
| 00:42.24 | _Bill_ | iris scan is forgeable |
| 00:42.35 | _Bill_ | thind "Demolition Man" :P |
| 00:42.37 | _Bill_ | think |
| 00:42.38 | lpotter | or navel lint anylasis |
| 00:42.39 | ieatlint | depends on the sophistication of the scan |
| 00:42.52 | sicu | raster: you mentioned earlier that you had made your own image file (.summary) ... are they available for download? |
| 00:42.52 | Wonka | raster: like in "Minority Report"? |
| 00:43.09 | _Bill_ | rectal scan..i've always been fond of those :P |
| 00:43.16 | Wonka | raster: btw, fingerprints are forgeable at the moment. |
| 00:43.23 | raster | _Bill_: tghats why i said iris AND finger |
| 00:43.30 | Wonka | raster: ever watch "myth busters"? |
| 00:43.31 | raster | and yes |
| 00:43.35 | raster | so u need more than one |
| 00:43.36 | _Bill_ | finger is forgeable even more easily |
| 00:43.41 | _Bill_ | i |
| 00:43.41 | ieatlint | not to mention, fingerprints are unreliable sources of data |
| 00:43.42 | raster | difficulty goes u[p |
| 00:43.45 | raster | i'd prefer dna |
| 00:43.51 | _Bill_ | i've tried on my thinkpad |
| 00:43.59 | _Bill_ | dna would work |
| 00:44.08 | ieatlint | and i don't mean forgeable -- i mean that certain types of laborers don't really have fingerprintts |
| 00:44.10 | raster | sicu: nup. because of the gpl. |
| 00:44.16 | _Bill_ | but still it would be even easier to harvest that a fingerprint |
| 00:44.25 | raster | gpl makes it infeasible to do |
| 00:44.26 | sicu | raster: ahh .. sux :/ |
| 00:44.27 | ieatlint | i used to know someone who did sheetmetal work... tore up his hands so much, he simply had no fingerprints |
| 00:44.47 | ieatlint | plus, all those amputees... :P |
| 00:44.57 | raster | _Bill_: i wouldnt get rid of pin #'s |
| 00:44.58 | _Bill_ | ieatlint: rectal scans |
| 00:45.11 | raster | _Bill_: but i'd take iris scan or fingerprint over signature any day |
| 00:45.12 | sicu | wtf is a rectal scan |
| 00:45.17 | MnemonicPunk | ieatlint: That's cool. Probably could have caused lots of buffer underruns on their high-security servers with that. xD |
| 00:45.18 | ieatlint | lol |
| 00:45.26 | Wonka | when we use dna for ID, i'll wait for the first retrovirus to disable our ID systems... |
| 00:45.40 | *** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD45BCD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:45.44 | MnemonicPunk | lol |
| 00:45.47 | _Bill_ | sicu: that's when someone stucks a 3d scanner up your ass and scans for your rectal patterns |
| 00:46.03 | _Bill_ | sicu: these are unique aswell.. or so it has ben told |
| 00:46.09 | MnemonicPunk | lol |
| 00:46.24 | lpotter | I refer the navel lint scan |
| 00:46.30 | ieatlint | i question just how second hand that info is bill :P |
| 00:46.32 | _Bill_ | US Customs do that for years already.... |
| 00:46.45 | sicu | _Bill_: so that's what they were doing at my last job interview ... i thought they were just being friendly |
| 00:46.46 | _Bill_ | altho they usually say that they search for narcotics |
| 00:47.00 | MnemonicPunk | lol |
| 00:47.39 | _Bill_ | damn. i |
| 00:47.45 | MnemonicPunk | And then someone uses that data to model Goatse 2.0 |
| 00:47.48 | _Bill_ | 'm runnung out of wine here |
| 00:47.58 | _Bill_ | MnemonicPunk: don't go there |
| 00:48.04 | MnemonicPunk | _x |
| 00:48.08 | MnemonicPunk | :x |
| 00:48.46 | _Bill_ | anyway.. all security is imaginary |
| 00:49.03 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03werner * r4673 10/developers/werner/ahrt/host/tmc/lib/ (crc.py scope.py): |
| 00:49.03 | CIA-22 | openmoko: Highlight: |
| 00:49.03 | CIA-22 | openmoko: - logic analyzer downloads are now about 66% faster |
| 00:49.03 | CIA-22 | openmoko: Details: |
| 00:49.03 | CIA-22 | openmoko: - lib/crc.py (crc.crc16): didn't even run |
| 00:49.04 | CIA-22 | openmoko: - lib/scope.py (rigol_la_data): only add data if it is different from the |
| 00:49.08 | CIA-22 | openmoko: previous sample |
| 00:49.10 | ieatlint | 10minutes until a chipmonk debates a black muslim |
| 00:49.14 | sicu | now see what you did ... Varox left the channel, scarred for life |
| 00:49.36 | _Bill_ | however you implement it.. it's fakeable, penetrateable, or otherwise uncomfortable |
| 00:49.37 | johngay | So, who's rushing out for the new G1? |
| 00:49.44 | mwester | And in the middle of all this, Werner is doing real coding work. |
| 00:49.55 | mwester | Get back to work all you! |
| 00:50.00 | _Bill_ | mwester: at least someone |
| 00:50.01 | raster | bah! |
| 00:50.05 | raster | work shmork |
| 00:50.08 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 00:50.18 | MnemonicPunk | Anyone else want an Ubuntu Image? xD |
| 00:50.21 | raster | sometimes really despises gpl |
| 00:50.22 | _Bill_ | mwester: it's bloody 03:50AM here... no work for me |
| 00:50.27 | sicu | meh, G1 doesnt even have an audio jack |
| 00:51.03 | ieatlint | sicu, so get the damned dongle |
| 00:51.03 | johngay | How's the stack coming along? I've been out of touch for a week. |
| 00:51.09 | mwester | _Bill_: did you forget that appointment you set up for 8AM tomorrow morning, then? ;) |
| 00:51.46 | _Bill_ | mwester: luckily.. i just checked my calendar and it still has no appointments for tomorrow |
| 00:52.08 | *** join/#openmoko KenYoung (n=Ken@pool-151-204-251-88.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:52.10 | _Bill_ | first one is on monday... |
| 00:52.50 | mwester | notes that it's the end of the fiscal quarter next week, and that his calendar is completely, totally, open. |
| 00:53.00 | mwester | wonders if he should start working on a resume. |
| 00:53.17 | _Bill_ | mwester: out of job? |
| 00:53.31 | _Bill_ | i'm just off for a vacation in spain.. |
| 00:53.36 | KenYoung | I just installed the most recent version of FDOM, and now I have the bug where audio is lost on the dialer app after the device has been suspended. Does anyone know a fix for that? |
| 00:53.42 | mwester | Not yet. But if the sales guys don't come up with some business, they'll start laying off staff. |
| 00:54.02 | _Bill_ | so i hope i'll find an open wifi in Benalmadena so you guys can find me in a week in tangogps :P |
| 00:54.04 | mwester | I don't expect to be the first to go, but once that happens, it's usually not much fun anymore. |
| 00:54.41 | raster | mwester: where do u slave? |
| 00:55.14 | raster | swears |
| 00:55.20 | raster | my memtest86 errors are now gone |
| 00:55.21 | _Bill_ | darn.. i should pick up my C coding some day.. it's been years now since i've written a serious line |
| 00:55.22 | raster | wtf... |
| 00:55.22 | mwester | I'm a field tech guy for a software vendor; I cover the midwest US -- which is seriously depressed right now. |
| 00:55.50 | raster | _Bill_: you should. once u co9nqour c.. the world is your oyster |
| 00:56.02 | raster | mwester: ooooh.. thats why |
| 00:56.19 | raster | (let me guss - a small vendor?) |
| 00:56.22 | mwester | Yep. |
| 00:56.22 | raster | guess |
| 00:56.26 | raster | aaah |
| 00:56.26 | _Bill_ | raster: i've written my own 3d engine as a python module for a local TV stations weather report sone 4 years ago.. |
| 00:56.28 | raster | bugger |
| 00:56.30 | raster | :( |
| 00:56.35 | raster | well just think |
| 00:56.36 | _Bill_ | on SDL an OGL |
| 00:56.43 | _Bill_ | so i'm no stranger.. |
| 00:56.44 | raster | you can throw in a few $1000 to bail out wallstreet |
| 00:56.54 | _Bill_ | but that was the last thing i actually wrote |
| 00:56.54 | mwester | heh! |
| 00:57.15 | raster | _Bill_: do not forsake your c! |
| 00:57.17 | raster | :) |
| 00:57.27 | _Bill_ | i still loathe java :P |
| 00:57.36 | johngay | I say let wall street colapse and buy Euro's. |
| 00:57.39 | _Bill_ | being a systems guy ;P |
| 00:57.48 | raster | mwester: just think... its about 4k per taxpayer (adult) in the usa to help wall stret out. |
| 00:57.51 | raster | poor bugger |
| 00:57.57 | raster | they ned some help |
| 00:58.05 | raster | they're in a bit of a squeeze! |
| 00:58.14 | raster | _Bill_: yay |
| 00:58.17 | _Bill_ | us is just tasting their own well grown fruit... |
| 00:58.19 | raster | hi-5's _Bill_ |
| 00:58.29 | _Bill_ | bows to raster |
| 00:58.33 | mwester | raster: I'm just glad I'm not the guy in our company that handles the financial companies in NY -- not only is he going to pay for this in his taxes, most of his jobs have just dried up or been cancelled. |
| 00:58.48 | johngay | I was up by wall street today, I'm just sorry those windows don't open any more. |
| 00:59.14 | mwester | johngay: It would be entertaining, but hazardous for the pedestrians if they opened. |
| 00:59.37 | raster | mwester: :( |
| 00:59.53 | raster | johngay: already ben doping that. i have a significant chunk fo $ in euros. |
| 01:00.09 | _Bill_ | hmmh. may i offer a themesong for the occasion: Weather Girls - It's raining men |
| 01:00.20 | mwester | groans. |
| 01:00.31 | raster | hahahahah |
| 01:01.33 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-30-72-201.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 01:01.44 | raster | the sucky bit is... |
| 01:01.55 | _Bill_ | yeees? |
| 01:01.56 | raster | i thnik that 700b+ bailout is necessary' |
| 01:02.06 | mwester | raster: curiousity question -- where's Werner based? |
| 01:02.15 | mwester | sees commits at odd times... |
| 01:02.47 | raster | mwester: argentina |
| 01:02.54 | mwester | oh! |
| 01:03.26 | mwester | That would explain it. I just assumed he was in Europe somewhere... |
| 01:03.47 | _Bill_ | truly multicontinental development |
| 01:03.50 | raster | well he's austrian |
| 01:03.55 | raster | who grewq up in switzerland |
| 01:04.09 | raster | and moved to bunos aires and loves it there |
| 01:04.24 | mwester | That's cool. |
| 01:05.09 | mwester | On other news, I now have an extra Treo 650. |
| 01:05.19 | raster | extra? |
| 01:05.23 | raster | send me one! |
| 01:05.48 | _Bill_ | hmh.. i wonder.. if anyone needs an senior systems guy with extensive experience in unix, oracle and storage in wild world outside estonia |
| 01:05.50 | mwester | Nope! it'll soon be "non-extra" when I get linux on it. |
| 01:06.30 | johngay | cues "The Weather Girls" |
| 01:06.35 | raster | mwester: hahaha |
| 01:06.42 | raster | mwester: let me know what u are doing |
| 01:06.47 | raster | i have my eyes set on one too |
| 01:06.57 | raster | i was building a plamt650 image for it last night |
| 01:07.07 | _Bill_ | Treo, would it be usable? |
| 01:07.07 | raster | but well.. seems my system has totally fuckd up its rootfs |
| 01:07.11 | raster | and /home too... |
| 01:07.29 | raster | _Bill_: from the looks if it - yes, except u need to boot from palmos via its cocoboot |
| 01:07.37 | _Bill_ | uhh |
| 01:07.39 | raster | no driver for built in flash (tho built in is only 32m) |
| 01:08.17 | raster | and i think audio record is broken |
| 01:08.18 | raster | so phone calls are one-way |
| 01:08.18 | raster | otherwise everything works |
| 01:08.18 | _Bill_ | lol.. semi-usable.. |
| 01:08.18 | raster | if audio was fixed |
| 01:08.18 | _Bill_ | almost as good as gta02 then :P |
| 01:08.19 | raster | fully usable |
| 01:08.24 | raster | =(it seems) |
| 01:08.35 | raster | booting from plamos isnt that bad a deal |
| 01:08.44 | raster | think of plamos as a big fat gui bootloader |
| 01:08.49 | mwester | PalmOS boots really fast. |
| 01:09.00 | raster | mwester: possibly better than uboot :) |
| 01:09.08 | mwester | I was just typing that :D |
| 01:09.19 | _Bill_ | and uboot should be lightweight in theory |
| 01:09.39 | raster | aaah... theory |
| 01:09.47 | mwester | uboot got distracted somewhere, had a few drinks, and is now convinced that its an operating system. |
| 01:09.50 | Zorkman | speaking of uboot, does anybody know what they are doing with Qi (or whatever it name is, the bootloader formally known as kboot) |
| 01:10.02 | mwester | qi is growing. |
| 01:10.12 | _Bill_ | mwester: it's happened before to opensource projects... think emacs |
| 01:11.13 | mwester | hmmmpph. But emacs is a better operating system than even linux! All we need is someone to build hardware that can execute the native clisp code, and linux will be obsolete. |
| 01:11.47 | _Bill_ | mwester: yeah.. a goos OS but a darn bad code editor |
| 01:12.08 | mwester | Zorkman: I think the plan is that qi will be able to be flashed into NAND on the 02. |
| 01:12.27 | _Bill_ | you really shouldn't be able to play nethack and check your email *in* you editor |
| 01:13.01 | mwester | ignores the criticism of the only proper text editor (and operating system) |
| 01:13.08 | _Bill_ | lol... |
| 01:13.42 | _Bill_ | it will never grow old.. redhat vs debian vs suse... emacs vs vi.. sendmail vs postfix... |
| 01:17.42 | raster | BOOO |
| 01:17.51 | raster | dopwnload is slooow.. |
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| 01:18.07 | raster | needs himself a new ubuntu iso for rescue... |
| 01:18.13 | _Bill_ | get a fatter pipe |
| 01:18.40 | _Bill_ | got scared away from debian in 2000 by dselect.... |
| 01:19.22 | raster | well i alreayd have 24mb it |
| 01:19.28 | _Bill_ | wow |
| 01:19.33 | raster | but my 802.11 isnt keeping up |
| 01:19.53 | _Bill_ | i'm still on 8... and estonia is supposed to be a premium IT country |
| 01:20.14 | raster | well this isnt that great |
| 01:20.16 | raster | japanis better |
| 01:20.19 | raster | had 100mbit there |
| 01:20.32 | raster | when i lived in tokyo |
| 01:20.50 | raster | ad 45mbit 5 years ago there. |
| 01:20.57 | raster | so 24 is a downgrad |
| 01:20.59 | _Bill_ | well.. sweden has fiber to an apartment deal going to those in Breadbandsbolaget area |
| 01:20.59 | raster | downgrade |
| 01:21.04 | mwester | offers raster an antique -- a genuine physical cat-5 cable to fix his wifi problem. |
| 01:21.09 | raster | then again... most of the internet can barewly pull 20mbit |
| 01:21.20 | raster | most of it is 3-5mbit at best |
| 01:21.41 | raster | mwester: yeah... i'd take that... but my desktop already has that |
| 01:21.42 | _Bill_ | 3-5 is already evolved parts of the world |
| 01:21.51 | raster | this is laptop that likes to be unwried |
| 01:22.02 | raster | my desktop's hdd is fucked |
| 01:22.12 | _Bill_ | i wouln't be surprised to see people getting online with good old v92 or such |
| 01:22.13 | mwester | adds another antique - a genuine netgear 5-port switch. |
| 01:23.03 | mwester | is prejudiced against wifi; and prefers a physical cable whenever possible. |
| 01:23.13 | raster | mwester: same |
| 01:23.15 | raster | except laptops |
| 01:23.17 | _Bill_ | always |
| 01:23.26 | _Bill_ | laptops have docks |
| 01:23.30 | raster | mine doesnt |
| 01:23.36 | raster | it just roams around anyway |
| 01:23.40 | raster | from lunge |
| 01:23.44 | raster | to dining tabel |
| 01:23.45 | raster | bed |
| 01:23.45 | raster | etc. |
| 01:23.49 | _Bill_ | only when you really-really have to move you downgrade to 802.11 |
| 01:27.01 | Zorkman | any qtopia users still awake? |
| 01:27.22 | Zorkman | the modem keeps registerering and unregistering, just like with 2007.2 a month ago |
| 01:27.36 | mwester | Oh goody! A volunteer! |
| 01:28.19 | mwester | http://moko.mwester.net/ <-- follow the links to the "bouncy rubber calypso" page |
| 01:29.37 | _Bill_ | weirdly.. i'm on fdom from the beginning of sept and i get that really seldomly |
| 01:29.57 | slaxxin | meetoo |
| 01:30.24 | raster | _Bill_: no extra cabls to use |
| 01:30.31 | raster | i HATE cables |
| 01:30.45 | Zorkman | mwester: thanks! I hope i'll have some time free soon to play with the FR and then I will test this and report back |
| 01:31.15 | _Bill_ | raster: i generally et the idea so.. no need to explain |
| 01:31.30 | raster | normally i use desktop anyway |
| 01:32.06 | raster | as its got the big kbd, nice mouse attached all the big screens and ltos of ram, disk and cpu to burn |
| 01:32.13 | raster | just i have to rescue it |
| 01:32.18 | raster | something bad (tm) happened |
| 01:32.44 | _Bill_ | lol.. happened to me a couple of times |
| 01:33.13 | mwester | notes that most of the time something bad (tm) happens to his big 'puters, the something bad (tm) is mwester. |
| 01:34.01 | _Bill_ | hehe.. yeah.. last time i killed my big one i installed the alpha kde 4.2 on it :P |
| 01:35.57 | mwester | I needed more space, so I added an external USB drive. Then one day, I decided to move the external USB drive internal, and keep it on the USB... I misplugged the USB/IDE adaptor, and by the time the ordeal was over, I had one USB/IDE adaptor destroyed, three Western Digital drives that were somehow damaged to where they could no longer ID themselves as drives(!), and one 500Watt power supply. |
| 01:37.02 | *** join/#openmoko lixianjing (n=chatzill@61.144.207.69) |
| 01:38.32 | _Bill_ | wtf.. how the heck did you do that? |
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| 01:39.39 | dingman | Following the directions at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPRS, I see that as promised my settings dialog is dead, but the suggested fix doesn't work. Anyone know what I really need to do? |
| 01:40.37 | Zorkman | mwester: do you know the status of the suspend-kills-the-sd? |
| 01:40.50 | mwester | Fixed in latest kernels. |
| 01:41.17 | Zorkman | thanks mwester; due to some renovations i have not had the time to keep up with everything as much as I wanted to |
| 01:41.30 | mwester | _Bill_: I still don't know how I did it all. :) But I am now much more careful. |
| 01:42.16 | _Bill_ | mwester: well.. you should be.. that's a quite a harvest even for a seasoned hw guy.. |
| 01:42.36 | _Bill_ | only has couple of UltraSPARCIII processors on his soul... |
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| 02:04.32 | Dave | Hmm |
| 02:04.36 | Dave | Zorkmans |
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| 02:35.06 | Zorkman | yes Dave? |
| 02:35.13 | Zorkman | (make it quick, gonna go to bed) |
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| 04:16.08 | danwink | dude duke3d is awesome! |
| 04:16.15 | danwink | it crashed pretty quickly |
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| 04:48.42 | lpotter | tat makes it awesome? |
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| 05:03.16 | ieatlint | i have evil thoughts of finding a way to attach my rfid reader to the phone and then go around and read people's passports |
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| 05:05.28 | cjb | I'm going to bet on that being ultimately unsatisfying :) |
| 05:06.02 | cjb | "Hi.. wait, you aren't carrying a passport? You suck." "What? You are, but it's in your backpack and it has to be no more than two inches away from me for me to read it? You suck too!" |
| 05:06.06 | Shlee | Anyone know whats happening with FDOM? It contains an updated rootfs with no kernel release.. |
| 05:06.13 | Shlee | no changenotes ;) |
| 05:06.21 | ieatlint | actually no, because it also could read other types of rfid tags... and as they gain in prevelance... |
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| 05:17.40 | Shlee | Answered: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-September/031761.html |
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| 05:29.20 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r55c9246002fc 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/om.py: ogpsd: use the persist module for storing aiding data |
| 05:29.21 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r6d461349a3a9 10/ (etc/freesmartphone/persist/README setup.py): conf: add readme file for the persist directory and ship it |
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| 06:42.53 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r5736992b5130 10/ (ChangeLog conf/example/frameworkd.conf framework/config.py): support configurable global debug log destination |
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| 06:56.04 | ieatlint | well, it took me 4 cds and a lot of aggrevation to discover that i can't burn in atapi mode without causing errors on the resulting disc |
| 06:57.14 | FxChiP | :/ |
| 06:57.20 | FxChiP | Which program? |
| 06:58.16 | ieatlint | cdrecord |
| 06:58.25 | FxChiP | oh |
| 06:58.27 | FxChiP | fun |
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| 07:08.54 | MrShleee | I'm a little confused, imagine I drained my battery and nix won't boot.. |
| 07:08.58 | MrShleee | how do I chanrge the FR? plug it in and leave it.. |
| 07:09.12 | MrShleee | or boot it into the bootloader with flashing red light |
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| 07:11.25 | ceda | MrShleee: if you can boot the bootloader then the battery isn't really drained is it? |
| 07:11.53 | ceda | MrShleee: anyway, keeping the FR plugged in does charge the battery but at a very low pace |
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| 08:46.20 | bove | hi. anyon here using Sandisk E12M cards? |
| 08:49.27 | viq | I have a sandisk microSD, I have no idea whether it's E12M |
| 08:52.38 | bove | but it works fine? |
| 08:52.46 | viq | Yes. |
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| 09:35.59 | Blastur | anyone know if RB433 works good with OpenWRT yet? |
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| 09:42.47 | Shlee | wishes he knew how to backup sms messages... the sqlite files don't seem to contain the whole message. |
| 09:42.53 | Shlee | :( |
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| 09:44.39 | Shlee | Does anyone know how sms are handled by the qtmail Application? |
| 09:44.41 | thrashold | Shlee: Incoming or outgoing? The incoming should be available on your sim card, too. You could read them from there. A script to shutdown qtopia stuff, connect to the modem and send the appropriate commands. |
| 09:45.12 | Shlee | incoming and outgoing seem to be stored on the flash too |
| 09:45.44 | Shlee | ./home/root/Application/qtmail/qtopia_db.sqlite seems to store most of them |
| 09:45.53 | Shlee | I assume the rest are stored on the sim |
| 09:46.06 | Shlee | no way to export/import from one to the other |
| 09:46.08 | Shlee | nor backup |
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| 09:46.36 | Shlee | If I knew where they were stored.. I'll throw up a script |
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| 10:00.49 | viq | Hm, how to make om2008 read .Xresources? Or otherwise make xterm white-on-black? |
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| 10:03.29 | Gnutoo | hello, what's the best way to achieve that: having zhone and the framework inside 2008.9(and so remove qtopia phone applications) |
| 10:04.03 | Gnutoo | it's because in FSO i miss the "lot of packages" of 2008.9 |
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| 10:14.05 | Gnutoo | by the way MokoMakefile fails: http://pastebin.com/m1b1f94de |
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| 10:46.16 | fletch | hi, i need some help pls :) |
| 10:46.36 | fletch | i want to make an opkg update, but i get "Could not obtain administrative lock" |
| 10:46.59 | fletch | than i make "killall packagekitd" and i get "killall: packagekitd: no process killed" |
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| 11:40.50 | Shlee | Mofi never works.. Anyone else having an issue? |
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| 11:54.14 | Bish | in which language is the illume keyboard written |
| 11:54.16 | Bish | ( not qtopia ) |
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| 11:55.36 | sakkara | Shlee: mofi is strange, with 2008.8 it worked great for me, but in 2008.9 and FDOM it doesnt... |
| 11:56.31 | sakkara | i just made a /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf and i start wifi with "ifdown eth0" and "ifup eht0" |
| 11:56.57 | sakkara | but be sure that wifi is turned off in the settings |
| 11:59.23 | Shlee | ok, it was on. |
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| 12:43.41 | Shlee | sakkara: mofis thinks EVERY single wifi connection is WPA |
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| 12:45.17 | sakkara | Shlee: may be... i only use wpa, so i dont know^^ |
| 12:46.37 | sakkara | but sometimes it is strange, there is always a wpa_supplicant -u starting, even if always kill it, don't know where it comes from... |
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| 13:17.41 | bipak | fast aux led blinking means kernel dump, right? |
| 13:20.28 | TAsn | bipak, i think this means battery is low. |
| 13:20.31 | TAsn | not sure though. |
| 13:20.45 | TAsn | it may be also a kernel panic, though i got it when my bat was low. |
| 13:21.15 | bipak | hmm it didn't respond on anything |
| 13:21.22 | bipak | and i was playing with bluetooth |
| 13:21.39 | bipak | bat symbol is quite full |
| 13:21.52 | bipak | checks the logs |
| 13:23.10 | bipak | TAsn: i think there was, slow and fast blinking |
| 13:23.16 | bipak | maybe slow blinking means low bat |
| 13:24.35 | bipak | grml |
| 13:24.38 | bipak | panic again |
| 13:24.50 | bipak | its reproduceable |
| 13:25.08 | bipak | doing hcitool cc <addr of the neo> |
| 13:25.17 | bipak | kills the kernel |
| 13:25.28 | bipak | qtopia 4.3.3 |
| 13:27.24 | bipak | .. doing hcitool cc <addr of the neo> on the hostmachine.. |
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| 13:47.57 | balrog-k1n | bipak: panic on the neo? o_O |
| 13:48.05 | bipak | yep |
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| 13:58.10 | johngay | If I haven't updated my uboot, does the second partition need to be ext2? I tried using ext3 but it just panics. |
| 14:00.22 | Bish | .. will gta3-5 have a phys. keyboar? that would be fukig shitty |
| 14:00.38 | izzyb | I seem to have corrupted my u-boot image in NAND. I was trying to install debian and something must have gone wrong. Now none of the boot options in NAND seem to work and flashing u-boot doesn't seem to fix it. Is there something else I need to flash to fix this problem? |
| 14:02.30 | mwester | izzyb: probably your uboot env needs to be rebuilt. I think that's something you need to do by hand AFAIK |
| 14:02.50 | izzyb | hmm, links to instructions? |
| 14:03.08 | mwester | johngay: second partition? to load the kernel from, or rootfs? |
| 14:03.34 | mwester | izzyb: sorry, dunno. search the wiki, or I hope you had a backup of those settings before you messed with 'em! |
| 14:04.07 | johngay | rootfs |
| 14:04.28 | mwester | rootfs is kernel, uboot only cares about the partition it gets the kernel from. |
| 14:04.46 | mwester | recent kernels should have ext3 built in. |
| 14:05.55 | johngay | I've got the kernel in the first partition, FAT, and the rootfs in the second ext3, but it doesn't boot. I was trying FDOM 20080913. |
| 14:06.29 | johngay | I'm getting ready to try OM2008.9 and wanted to be sure I formatted things right. |
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| 14:09.43 | izzyb | mwester, thanks, I had an old backup that did the trick :) |
| 14:12.50 | Bish | i do not wanta physical keyboard on neo gta2+ !! |
| 14:13.56 | Bish | will there be one ! , ahh |
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| 14:15.37 | izzyb | would love to have a physical keyboard on the device. coming form the palm treo, I kind of miss the keyboard |
| 14:15.56 | izzyb | although a hideaway keyboard would be nicer ;) |
| 14:16.16 | Bish | big display = displaykeyboard + hideaway keyboard :( |
| 14:16.36 | johngay | Then get the G1 |
| 14:16.42 | Bish | .. who has to decide it? |
| 14:16.44 | Bish | johngay: G1? |
| 14:16.49 | Bish | johngay: android? |
| 14:17.02 | mwester | izzyb: Glad you got it working; this is actually becoming a FAQ -- can you add a comment about this problem for others who follow whatever instructions you did for installing debian? |
| 14:17.08 | johngay | T-Mobiles new phone, yea. |
| 14:17.17 | izzyb | yes and no. screen keyboards aren't as nice as real keyboards if your doing lots of typing which I do |
| 14:17.43 | johngay | Or get the Apple BT Keyboard. Looks real nice. I'm getting one. |
| 14:17.46 | Bish | who has to decide it.. has something been decided about aht topic already? |
| 14:18.06 | balrog-k1n | switches to SD booting too because i need 2.6.26 and it won't read my nand flash :( |
| 14:18.08 | Bish | will gta04 have screen keyboard only to? |
| 14:18.29 | Bish | balrog-k1n: .. then dont use 2.6.26:P |
| 14:18.36 | izzyb | mwester: actually, I don't have debian working, but perhaps the wiki entry for debian should include such info |
| 14:18.42 | balrog-k1n | Bish: i need it... |
| 14:18.45 | izzyb | I'll see if I can add something |
| 14:18.50 | Bish | balrog-k1n: ah okay |
| 14:18.54 | balrog-k1n | Bish: you said you don't want a physical keyboard though? |
| 14:18.58 | Bish | yeah |
| 14:19.11 | balrog-k1n | prefer on-screen? |
| 14:19.15 | Bish | fuck yeah |
| 14:19.26 | Bish | i will die if gta3+ will have phys. keyboards |
| 14:19.32 | balrog-k1n | *nods* ;) |
| 14:19.32 | Bish | i really liked on-scree |
| 14:21.26 | Bish | does someone know what will happen concerning the keyboard? |
| 14:21.34 | Bish | or does nobody know |
| 14:22.27 | balrog-k1n | doubts there will be a physical keyboard |
| 14:22.33 | Bish | :(((((88 |
| 14:22.44 | balrog-k1n | it's very difficult to produce |
| 14:22.48 | balrog-k1n | lots of moving parts |
| 14:22.57 | Bish | :) thats great |
| 14:23.01 | balrog-k1n | assembling the phone would take 10x longer |
| 14:23.14 | Bish | i will code a on screen keyboard that will be fraeking good |
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| 14:23.21 | Bish | so evryonewants on screen! u will see |
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| 14:23.35 | balrog-k1n | already feels excited :) |
| 14:23.40 | Bish | yeah :) |
| 14:23.53 | Bish | beware of bish, will pwn qtopia ! |
| 14:24.10 | Bish | seriously qtopia is shit |
| 14:24.17 | Bish | even cpp is shi |
| 14:24.27 | Tm_T | Bish: mmmm, stop |
| 14:24.34 | Bish | Tm_T: stop what? |
| 14:24.45 | Tm_T | pointless rant |
| 14:24.54 | Bish | Tm_T: okay , yes thanks |
| 14:24.56 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-236-44.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 14:29.54 | Bish | whats in youur heeaaad, zooombaeeeh zombaeeeh aeeh aeeh |
| 14:30.01 | Bish | sorry couldnt resist |
| 14:30.31 | Tm_T | . |
| 14:37.24 | [df] | does the fso framework daemon replace gsmd? |
| 14:37.40 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03werner * r4674 10/developers/werner/wlan-spi/patches/ (hack-silence-battery.patch tweak-spi.patch): |
| 14:37.40 | CIA-22 | openmoko: - moved SPI clock setting from hack-silence-battery.patch (oops !) to |
| 14:37.40 | CIA-22 | openmoko: tweak-spi.patch |
| 14:37.40 | CIA-22 | openmoko: - set the maximum SPI clock to 12MHz and explained what happens if we exceed |
| 14:37.40 | CIA-22 | openmoko: this limit |
| 14:37.44 | CIA-22 | openmoko: - removed unnecessary dummy read before last SPI byte |
| 14:40.56 | balrog-k1n | [df]: yes, it's got its own gsmd |
| 14:41.54 | Dave | :p |
| 14:41.58 | Dave | ogsmd? |
| 14:42.13 | balrog-k1n | yep somethinggsmd |
| 14:42.26 | balrog-k1n | yay, 2.6.26 booted into FSO |
| 14:42.53 | balrog-k1n | there are a couple of very weird issues very apparent at first look but it booted |
| 14:43.00 | *** join/#openmoko fale_ (n=fale@89-96-108-175.ip12.fastwebnet.it) |
| 14:43.02 | balrog-k1n | like the time is running 4x slower |
| 14:43.17 | Dave | :) |
| 14:43.27 | Dave | what? |
| 14:43.29 | Dave | timehax? |
| 14:43.36 | balrog-k1n | it's probably my fault :) |
| 14:43.45 | *** join/#openmoko RedFlash2002 (n=RedFlash@host8-44-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:44.27 | balrog-k1n | mmm i want my usb net :( |
| 14:45.46 | Dave | aww |
| 14:47.18 | *** join/#openmoko fale_ (n=fale@89-96-108-175.ip12.fastwebnet.it) |
| 14:50.46 | *** join/#openmoko fale_ (n=fale@89-96-108-175.ip12.fastwebnet.it) |
| 14:52.24 | *** join/#openmoko sandwitch (n=mark@247-50-223.ftth.xms.internl.net) |
| 14:55.11 | hossi | i'm trying to unpoack a .tar ~# tar -xvf rtorrent-0.8.3.tar.gz |
| 14:55.11 | hossi | tar: invalid tar magic |
| 14:55.30 | balrog-k1n | hossi: it's gzipped |
| 14:55.45 | balrog-k1n | try -xvzf to ungzip and untar in one command |
| 14:57.19 | Dave | balrogkun |
| 14:57.23 | *** join/#openmoko RedFlash2000 (n=RedFlash@host23-108-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:57.26 | Dave | hehe |
| 14:57.30 | Dave | broken magic |
| 14:57.39 | hossi | blinx: # tar -xvzf rtorrent-0.8.3.tar.gz |
| 14:57.39 | hossi | tar: invalid tar magic |
| 14:57.53 | hossi | ops wrong, balrog-k1n |
| 14:57.58 | balrog-k1n | not enough mana! |
| 14:59.44 | hossi | balrog-k1n: any idea? |
| 15:00.50 | balrog-k1n | nope |
| 15:01.03 | balrog-k1n | you could try gunzip rtorrent-0.8.3.tar.gz first and then tar -xvf |
| 15:01.35 | Dave | :p |
| 15:01.49 | Dave | balrog, you be driftin' too hard :p |
| 15:01.53 | hossi | balrog-k1n: doesn't work :/ |
| 15:02.17 | balrog-k1n | what's the error? |
| 15:02.50 | hossi | balrog-k1n: same as before |
| 15:03.07 | *** join/#openmoko skorzen (n=skorzen@89-180-78-83.net.novis.pt) |
| 15:03.09 | balrog-k1n | it's a broken tarball then |
| 15:03.23 | balrog-k1n | someone gzipped something else as a prank |
| 15:03.49 | hossi | balrog-k1n: I get that message everytime I try to unpack |
| 15:04.18 | tdobson | http://www.steamd.net/2008/07/the-hockey-puck-that-is-the-ne.html #this guy is a dick |
| 15:04.25 | bipak | someone with qtopia here? |
| 15:04.40 | Tm_T | bipak: always someone, don't ask to ask, just ask (; |
| 15:04.41 | *** join/#openmoko Flyser_ (n=flyser@dialin-145-254-177-253.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:04.44 | Tm_T | tdobson: how so? |
| 15:04.55 | bipak | Tm_T: :) |
| 15:05.06 | tdobson | Tm_T: title "The hockey puck that is the Neo FreeRunner" |
| 15:05.34 | bipak | somewith with qtopia here, who can send me his udev.conf and links.conf from the /etc/udev directory? Ive just delted mine... |
| 15:05.45 | Tm_T | tdobson: I wouldn't say him a dick |
| 15:06.21 | *** join/#openmoko Temris (n=pawel@abrt5.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 15:06.30 | tdobson | Tm_T: I know. "I strongly disagree with him" but :-/ |
| 15:06.33 | tdobson | it annoys me :P |
| 15:06.39 | Dave | :P |
| 15:06.42 | Tm_T | tdobson: you also insulted all dicks |
| 15:07.17 | Dave | What? |
| 15:07.17 | tdobson | Tm_T: oh well :P |
| 15:08.17 | *** join/#openmoko kkk-man (n=kkk@user-160u2eq.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 15:08.40 | hossi | anyone got the shell-lastFM player working on the NF? http://nex.scrapping.cc/code/shell-fm/ |
| 15:10.40 | hossi | it would be awesome to listing to music via last.fm |
| 15:11.12 | *** join/#openmoko weirdedout (n=gonePost@220-253-56-105.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 15:11.13 | Dave | Do they not use a real streaming protocol? |
| 15:11.19 | Dave | if so, mplayer? |
| 15:11.50 | tdobson | last.fm is mp3 |
| 15:11.57 | tdobson | 128kbps |
| 15:12.10 | bricode_ | tdobson: He might be a dick, but he does have some valid points. |
| 15:12.43 | Dave | :) |
| 15:13.05 | Dave | So who's a dick? |
| 15:13.10 | tdobson | bricode_: possibly - the fsf article is a little unclear but mainly people find it hard to interpret |
| 15:13.37 | bricode_ | Dave: I believe I'm a dick :) |
| 15:13.40 | Tm_T | Dave: noone else than dick itself |
| 15:13.54 | quickdev | hossi, there's a gui lastFM player...and it's working for me. I'm using fso-ms3 |
| 15:14.01 | tdobson | the fsf recommended the FR *not* on the basis it was a touch screen device with similar specs but because it is a completely free phone stack |
| 15:14.21 | *** join/#openmoko Azalyn (n=junon@modemcable061.93-83-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 15:14.43 | *** join/#openmoko almien (n=OJW@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 15:14.50 | tdobson | http://s11.video2.blip.tv/1110000158061/Flamekebab-LRLUK2008TheGongaThongLightbulbTalkExtravaganzaMatthew517.flv # about being a dick :P |
| 15:15.24 | bricode_ | tdobson: That's true, with a couple of oddball provisions, that in my opinion, are nutters. |
| 15:15.48 | tdobson | bricode_: elaborate :) |
| 15:16.16 | bricode_ | tdobson: For example, the GSM, GPS and Wifi firmwares are considered "hardware" from the FSF perspective if they aren't changed once the product ships. |
| 15:16.21 | *** join/#openmoko aliases123 (n=alias@unaffiliated/aliases123) |
| 15:16.35 | bricode_ | tdobson: That means, to maintain the "openness" you can't update those firmwares in the field. |
| 15:17.02 | aliases123 | bricode_: ? |
| 15:17.26 | bricode_ | tdobson: If you do, you violate the idea that the firmware is a piece of hardware (from the FSF perspective), thus the phone isn't fully "open". |
| 15:17.50 | tdobson | bricode_: you mean hardware firmware? |
| 15:18.05 | bricode_ | Which is nutters because if there is, say, a new GSM firmware that fixes an issue, it *should* be updated. |
| 15:18.10 | aliases123 | bricode_: ???? dont follow you. |
| 15:18.24 | bricode_ | aliases123: Which part? |
| 15:18.38 | aliases123 | oh ... the openmoko has a gsm proble... are you talking about the gsm chip in the freerunner ? |
| 15:19.04 | bricode_ | tdobson: The GSM, GPS and Wifi all have closed firmware that run on their own CPU cores. |
| 15:19.17 | tdobson | bricode_: no |
| 15:19.33 | tdobson | bricode_: the GSM has non-free firmware as this is a legal requirement |
| 15:19.38 | aliases123 | bricode_: yep. that's true. i hate the atheros for being full mac. the gps --> ? ah not sure about taht the gsm is different. |
| 15:19.46 | tdobson | the wifi uses a fully free driver, as with the GPs |
| 15:19.46 | bricode_ | tdobson: That's true. |
| 15:20.11 | bricode_ | tdobson: There's a different between free driver and the firmware that the driver interacts with. |
| 15:20.21 | tdobson | I know |
| 15:20.27 | bricode_ | aliases123: Yeah, the full mac is good and bad, depending on perspective. |
| 15:20.39 | bumbl | tdobson: wifi uses a computer generated driver |
| 15:20.47 | aliases123 | yeah. if you like not being able to use the chipset properly sure. |
| 15:20.49 | tdobson | afaik, on the freerunner the only non-free user updatable firmware is on the gsm chip |
| 15:20.53 | bumbl | and this is why the openmoko wifi driver sucks |
| 15:21.10 | *** join/#openmoko cnwdup (n=harlekin@hnvr-4dbd4501.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 15:21.18 | bricode_ | tdobson: also see GPS and wifi firmwares. |
| 15:21.47 | tdobson | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_Openness # here is info lets all read it |
| 15:21.49 | bricode_ | tdobson: GPS also has legal requirements that require firmware restriction. |
| 15:21.50 | thrashold | bricode_: That's not exactly nuts, although I agree that the FSF have used a very strange and questionably acceptable way to "solve" the issue with firmware's freedom. |
| 15:22.38 | bricode_ | thrashold: My issue with that perspective is that you must set the firmware in stone. If that firmware has an enhancement, it should be updated. |
| 15:23.27 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@135.84-49-129.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:23.50 | tdobson | bricode_: its a fair point at some level - we should favour free firmware over anythign else |
| 15:24.10 | *** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host78-55-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:24.11 | lindi- | i'd like to get free gsm firmware since i think i just hit a bug in it |
| 15:24.21 | tdobson | the issue of whether dropping the firmware into ROM/hardware is debatable - obviously you have different opinions to other people here :) |
| 15:24.22 | lindi- | (#151 in fso trac) |
| 15:24.22 | bricode_ | aliases123: The full mac allows you to sleep the main cpu and still do radio stuff. The OLPC hacked the marvel firmware to do mesh and packet forwardin. |
| 15:24.46 | tdobson | isn't sure exactly what he thinks but would prefer to have the non-free bit in hardware if it had to exist |
| 15:24.49 | bricode_ | tdobson: I agree with free firmware in principle, but in practice, it's quite different. |
| 15:25.00 | tdobson | lindi-: so would I# |
| 15:25.19 | aliases123 | bricode_: i agree with free everything. |
| 15:25.21 | thrashold | bricode_: Well, if your turn your head upside down, it begins to make some sense. |
| 15:25.23 | tdobson | lindi-: but there are legal restrictions which aren't openmoko inc's fault |
| 15:25.24 | lindi- | i don't understand how AT%CBHZ=1 can possibly have such an influense on voice quality |
| 15:25.43 | lindi- | it shouldn't be related to voice in any way |
| 15:26.05 | tdobson | anyway. I have to get on :) cheers for the vhat :) |
| 15:26.09 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@189.70.36.75) |
| 15:26.12 | tdobson | becomes dormant again |
| 15:26.40 | *** join/#openmoko fale_ (n=fale@89-96-108-175.ip12.fastwebnet.it) |
| 15:27.06 | bricode_ | lindi-: What does that do? |
| 15:28.00 | lindi- | bricode_: it should enable home cell broadcast messages |
| 15:28.16 | lindi- | bricode_: but it appears to have a really bad side effect on voice quality |
| 15:29.36 | *** join/#openmoko sicu (n=si_u@cm-84.208.99.25.getinternet.no) |
| 15:32.03 | hossi | quickdev: what's the nme of the gui? |
| 15:32.36 | quickdev | hossi, vagalume |
| 15:34.55 | *** join/#openmoko cnwdup (n=harlekin@hnvr-4dbd4501.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 15:37.30 | *** join/#openmoko jlmoko (n=jluis@248.Red-88-3-89.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 15:37.49 | *** join/#openmoko e_s_p (n=evan@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) |
| 15:41.16 | *** join/#openmoko norro_ (n=norro@e181085225.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:42.49 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczx (n=simon@ip-58-28-152-201.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 15:44.13 | xzcvczx | does anyone know/seen whether there are plans do get a permanant splash screen during boot(missing out kernel messages)? |
| 15:44.38 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@146-230.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 15:45.09 | lindi- | xzcvczx: how about picking a nick that is bit easier to remember? ;) |
| 15:45.42 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 15:45.56 | xzcvczx | lindi-: actually its very easy to remember, i bet you will still remember it in about 3 hrs LP |
| 15:45.59 | xzcvczx | :P* |
| 15:47.45 | *** join/#openmoko RedFlash2002 (n=RedFlash@host133-104-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:47.49 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=federico@moinmoin/developer/federico) |
| 15:50.01 | *** join/#openmoko Dave (n=dave@pool-141-150-10-99.mad.east.verizon.net) |
| 15:50.12 | Dave | Hello gentlemen |
| 15:50.15 | Dave | and bricode, the dick :) |
| 15:50.32 | Dave | Don't worry, we like you, brian :) |
| 15:50.42 | bumbl | lol |
| 15:50.43 | retracile | Dave! ;) |
| 15:50.48 | Dave | \o/ |
| 15:51.07 | johngay | Dave's not here, man! |
| 15:51.28 | Dave | YES I AM |
| 15:51.50 | Dave | stabs johngay in the face with his burning magnesium dagger of greeting |
| 15:51.51 | hossi | where can one find the list of packages for om2008? |
| 15:52.01 | johngay | Dave? |
| 15:52.03 | Dave | hossi, presumably in the respository. |
| 15:52.21 | Dave | johngay :) |
| 15:52.50 | johngay | Is that dave? |
| 15:52.56 | hossi | Dave: where is that? :) |
| 15:53.05 | retracile | wants to know Dave's supplier |
| 15:53.14 | Dave | :o |
| 15:53.24 | Dave | >:) |
| 15:53.33 | *** join/#openmoko Temris_ (n=pawel@absa231.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 15:53.35 | Dave | slips something to retracile |
| 15:53.46 | *** join/#openmoko NineX (i=ninex@gentoo.netzone.kom.pl) |
| 15:55.59 | johngay | OK, I'm running 2008.9 from SD. I imagine I can update this without screwing up whats in flash? |
| 15:57.19 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-084-057-073-014.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:58.54 | *** join/#openmoko LionKMP (n=lion@catv-89-133-185-26.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 15:59.03 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-092-154.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 15:59.13 | PBeck | hallo |
| 16:00.16 | mwester | johngay: hopefully. but I don't know if the kernel post-install script is smart enough to know not to reflash the kernel; it has no knowlege of where the running kernel was booted from. |
| 16:01.43 | johngay | Kinda mute point, it seems. The installer isn't smart enough to use my wifi, though settings shows it is good. |
| 16:01.58 | lindi- | johngay: install.sh? |
| 16:02.04 | sicu | DAVE |
| 16:02.54 | johngay | Is there even a term in this? |
| 16:03.00 | *** join/#openmoko |R (n=bob@dsl-67-55-12-229.acanac.net) |
| 16:03.08 | *** join/#openmoko pea (n=pea@75.58.4.163) |
| 16:03.09 | lindi- | johngay: ? |
| 16:03.36 | johngay | I'm tryin' 2008.9 from SD. |
| 16:04.06 | sicu | there will be if you install it |
| 16:04.33 | johngay | Can't install anything if it's too dumb to use my wifi. |
| 16:04.52 | *** part/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@146-230.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 16:05.13 | lindi- | johngay: isn't that a kernel issue? |
| 16:05.57 | johngay | I don't know. I just put http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.9/ on my SD card and booted from it. |
| 16:06.31 | johngay | settings shows my wifi at 27%, but the installer says it can't find any repositories. |
| 16:07.29 | johngay | still likes the original 2007 that came with the phone. |
| 16:08.02 | xzcvczx | johngay: FSO is quite nice now |
| 16:08.24 | xzcvczx | well if you disable gsm, and just use gps the battery lasts quite a while as well :P |
| 16:09.22 | xzcvczx | and disable wifi |
| 16:09.56 | lindi- | johngay: does ping work? |
| 16:10.48 | johngay | How do I ping without a term??? |
| 16:10.55 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.84-48-212.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:11.01 | lindi- | johngay: by not using three question marks |
| 16:12.08 | Dave | lindi :P |
| 16:12.18 | Dave | SICU |
| 16:12.46 | froksen | is it correct understood that you can use the Linux-system-dictionary as the SMS dictionary on one of the enviroments ? |
| 16:12.48 | Dave | omgwtfrootkits! |
| 16:13.09 | johngay | Well, 2008.9 hasn't changed my mind about where OM is heading )-= |
| 16:13.33 | froksen | I´m from denmark, so its quite impornent that I can spell some of the special danish words :-p |
| 16:14.28 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:16.36 | johngay | Even suduko on this sucks. |
| 16:16.46 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: rather random, |
| 16:18.08 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: where's OM heading. |
| 16:18.16 | SpeedEvil | More on-topically. |
| 16:18.28 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: oh duh, my bad. |
| 16:18.28 | SpeedEvil | I've come up with another use-case for a camera. |
| 16:19.03 | SpeedEvil | Huge shelf full of coffee with assorted prices and special offers -> OCR -> automatic calculation -> That one is cheap |
| 16:19.16 | retracile | SpeedEvil: light-level detection for automatic backlight control? ... oh |
| 16:19.58 | xzcvczx | retracile: i am not sure the power required to power the camera would actually make it worth that |
| 16:20.00 | SpeedEvil | Took the time to try to find the 'cheap' offers. Turns out that as is not unusual, the offers were the normal prices. |
| 16:20.11 | SpeedEvil | xzcvczx: it is. |
| 16:20.25 | SpeedEvil | Camera is cheap - espsecially if you power it up .1s/5 |
| 16:20.35 | SpeedEvil | And take a 100*100 frame |
| 16:21.25 | *** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host78-55-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:21.45 | xzcvczx | in comparison to a light detector or somehting though? |
| 16:22.00 | xzcvczx | s/ht/th/ |
| 16:22.22 | xzcvczx | gah you useless bot |
| 16:23.07 | johngay | Yea, just build a USB light sensor. |
| 16:23.09 | sicu | googles is going for it: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20080232574.PGNR.&OS=DN/20080232574&RS=DN/20080232574 |
| 16:23.17 | retracile | xzcvczx: I'd expect a light detector (photoresistor) to be less power, but it is also less versatile than a camera. |
| 16:23.32 | SpeedEvil | A light detector is also not free. |
| 16:23.45 | SpeedEvil | If the camera is already there, then using it is free. |
| 16:24.06 | SpeedEvil | If it's not, then it's going to add at least $.25 to the cost-price, and $.5 to the sale price |
| 16:24.10 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: why not use some tiny usb camera? |
| 16:24.19 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: because it sticks out. |
| 16:24.26 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: a bit yes |
| 16:24.33 | retracile | lindi-: know of any good ones? |
| 16:24.43 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: You can't jam it in pocket, which removes most of the use-cases. |
| 16:24.57 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: all 'decent' USB cameras require USB2 |
| 16:25.01 | lindi- | my stv680 is quite small but i'm sure they could make it smaller |
| 16:25.04 | SpeedEvil | Or they go to stupidly low resolution. |
| 16:25.05 | lindi- | this is usb1 |
| 16:25.12 | xzcvczx | SpeedEvil: just find one that fits in the hole of the phone |
| 16:25.43 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: camera modules for phones are in the 4.5*4.5*2mm range. |
| 16:25.49 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: and costing $5 or under |
| 16:26.08 | *** join/#openmoko balajirrao (n=balaji@59.92.245.202) |
| 16:26.23 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: what kind of interface do they have? |
| 16:26.36 | *** join/#openmoko haakeyar (n=haakeyar@cB83A4BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 16:27.26 | xzcvczx | i have seen some with i2c for control and extra data lines for the image |
| 16:28.57 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: the SoC already has the camera interface |
| 16:29.14 | SpeedEvil | I2C for control, and 8 bit parallel databus. |
| 16:29.20 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: ah, does the $5 camera work there? |
| 16:29.26 | SpeedEvil | (which you have to read out at several dozen MHz |
| 16:29.28 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: yes |
| 16:29.35 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: for VGA cameras. |
| 16:29.39 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: did you try it? |
| 16:30.18 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: no - it's impossible to attach to GTA02 without major rework - and I have no GTA02 anyway. |
| 16:30.27 | *** join/#openmoko skorzen (n=skorzen@89-180-78-83.net.novis.pt) |
| 16:30.34 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: a billion chinese people can't be wong though. |
| 16:31.07 | SpeedEvil | http://www3.alps.com/e/npv_product/0425_FPDJ/FPDJ-E.HTML is typical of the breed. |
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| 16:39.47 | geaaru | hi at all, anyone can said me what is package that contains cu command (for AT command)? |
| 16:39.50 | geaaru | thanks in advance |
| 16:40.09 | xzcvczx | geaaru: what distribution? |
| 16:40.23 | geaaru | gentoo and debian |
| 16:40.37 | lindi- | geaaru: $ find-package-by-file bin/cu | netcat paste.dyndns.org 1234 |
| 16:40.37 | lindi- | http://rafb.net/p/ZyXGAe97.html |
| 16:40.49 | xzcvczx | gentoo == emerge -s uucp |
| 16:40.55 | xzcvczx | i think its taylor or something |
| 16:41.20 | geaaru | ah ok, it is uucp package... i will intalled it ... thanks |
| 16:42.06 | xzcvczx | geaaru: yeah just confirmed its taylor-uucp |
| 16:42.25 | xzcvczx | debian isnt it just 'apt-get install cu'? |
| 16:42.52 | lindi- | xzcvczx: yes |
| 16:43.32 | xzcvczx | lindi-: thanks, use ubuntu/gentoo never used debian |
| 16:43.38 | johngay | OK. So Om2008.9 is a no-go. Guess I'll try FSO now. |
| 16:44.07 | geaaru | yes taylor-uucp on gentoo... for debian i need wait tomorrow... in this moment i have only my gentoo. However, thank you very much for reply. |
| 16:44.53 | lindi- | geaaru: the great thing about chroots is that you can have both debian and gentoo and you can use both at the same time without needing to reboot |
| 16:45.35 | xzcvczx | johngay: just be aware FSO does not include gui wifi config |
| 16:46.01 | geaaru | lindi-: yes of course... this when i have space on my hardisk, but not now. :P :) |
| 16:46.22 | lindi- | geaaru: hard disk? i meant on the phone |
| 16:46.28 | johngay | Does it have a term? Can I still use the same commands I use with 2007? |
| 16:46.58 | xzcvczx | johngay: you will have to open the menu by clicking the down arrow at top of screen and clicking home then terminal is in the list |
| 16:47.15 | geaaru | hard disk for test my application before port it to openmoko environment |
| 16:47.21 | xzcvczx | s/down arrow/inverted triangle |
| 16:48.03 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 16:50.26 | johngay | It's a pain typing these long wget strings on the screen keyboard (-; |
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| 16:51.05 | cb22 | johngay, try tinyurl perhaps? |
| 16:51.36 | xzcvczx | i wouldnt mind a keypad 4*3 semi transparent full screen keyboard |
| 16:52.01 | johngay | shame wget can't tab-complete addresses /-; |
| 16:53.10 | lesouvage | I wnat to add open street map data of my own city to my freerunner. On the wiki there is the instruction: In addition to downloading map images from the OSM server etc. etc. Can some body give me a pointer on how to install a map from a osm server. |
| 16:53.30 | xzcvczx | lesouvage: what gps program? |
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| 16:55.48 | lesouvage | maps, the one that is part of om2008.9 see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om2008.8_Locations . It is working but because there is no map info it just shows a red spot covering half of the Netherlands. |
| 16:55.58 | lesouvage | sorry the program is locations |
| 16:56.00 | johngay | cb22 Thanx! Never even knew that existed. |
| 16:57.07 | SpeedEvil | .nl - you're lucky |
| 16:57.20 | SpeedEvil | .nl got data donated by a mapping company, so it's well covered. |
| 16:57.30 | lesouvage | xzcvczx: gps is "working out of the box" with om2008.9. Just have to turn gps on in settings. |
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| 16:58.19 | lesouvage | Speedevil: I know and it would be great to have it working on my freerunner. |
| 16:58.50 | lesouvage | But there is no "Install map Netherlands" in the installer :-( |
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| 17:08.06 | Gnutoo | lesouvage, alternatively you can install tangogps,gpsd,configure gpsd,connect to the internet and tap to the screen and a menu will appear...on the bottom of the menu there is "download" ...just select the zoom level you want to download... |
| 17:08.43 | Gnutoo | hello i've a problem...what's the sdl version of 2008.9? |
| 17:09.48 | Gnutoo | could someone type: opkg info libsdl-1.2-0 |
| 17:10.01 | Gnutoo | or okkg list | grep -i sdl |
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| 17:27.43 | Zorkman | mwester: you here? |
| 17:28.00 | Zorkman | I installed your patch for qtopia that is constantly re-connection to the gsm |
| 17:28.28 | Zorkman | and now i can no longer "draw my words" you know, write the letter with the touchscreen |
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| 17:36.14 | Zorkman | or maybe your twin mwester_ is online? :) |
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| 17:40.01 | lesouvage | gnutool: thanks for the info. I'm not that lucky with getting apss to work on the freerunner and i'm glad locations is working. |
| 17:41.11 | lesouvage | Does anybody how to get the description generator to work. (http://people.openmoko.org/olv/om-maps/desc-gen.html) I try it on my mac with firefox but holding the shift key doesn't seem to have any effect |
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| 17:52.07 | Zorkman | lesouvage: never heard of anyone not being able to get agpsui working (except when the gsp was defect) what distro are you using? |
| 17:56.35 | lesouvage | Zorkman: gps is working but I have no map info of my region. I found the wiki page. Will install it now. But what I actually need is a map of my region. I'm using om2008.9 |
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| 17:57.57 | lesouvage | Zorkman: thanks for the pointer, looks interesting. |
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| 18:07.09 | lesouvage | Is it a real problem when "signature check failed" message shows up with opkg update? |
| 18:09.40 | [df] | lesouvage: I don't think so |
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| 18:16.00 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rb0723b23405d 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): |
| 18:16.00 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: rules: Add IdleState DBus trigger and SetDisplayBrightness action |
| 18:16.00 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: We are handling the display dimming solely through the rules now. |
| 18:16.00 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: (Yes, the rules files is device specific nowadays...) |
| 18:16.50 | cjb | lesouvage: not at all |
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| 18:24.24 | lesouvage_ | Zorkman: I have installed agpsui succesfully (no error messages) should there be an icon show up at the home screen? |
| 18:25.26 | lesouvage_ | I found it. It was just a black icon with "open moko" |
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| 18:36.54 | lesouvage_ | zorkman: I just did little walk. It really is a great app. |
| 18:38.28 | lesouvage_ | it is even working in the house |
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| 18:53.24 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r188cefece5d3 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/ (generic.py helpers.py): ousaged: reorder imports and get rid of unused helpers module |
| 18:53.26 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * rb7455bd5b9c6 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py: ousaged: report time used for enabling and disabling a resource |
| 18:53.27 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * red4b8cf98db3 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py: ousaged: annouce new resources |
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| 19:24.05 | Gnutoo | anyone? |
| 19:24.40 | Zilla | ME? |
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| 19:26.18 | sicu | yeh you, if you have 2008.9 and can run: [2008-09-27 19:09:48] <Gnutoo> could someone type: opkg info libsdl-1.2-0 |
| 19:26.18 | sicu | [2008-09-27 19:10:00] <Gnutoo> or okkg list | grep -i sdl |
| 19:29.45 | lesouvage | I just tried agpsui and it is working and I installed tangogps, that look really great but doesn't seem to pickup any satelite. Is there a fix to get this program to work, or does it ust need stroger sgnal then agpsui. |
| 19:30.11 | lesouvage | I'm in typo mode ;-( |
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| 19:44.02 | Pyrasi | hi all |
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| 19:53.58 | Zilla | Ey |
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| 20:09.35 | Zilla | Zijn dr nog nederlanders hier? |
| 20:09.42 | lesouvage | ja |
| 20:09.57 | lesouvage | Why? |
| 20:10.07 | Zilla | gewoon... tis zo rustig hierzo |
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| 20:10.47 | lesouvage | I can hardly believe that 384 people has so little to say. |
| 20:10.50 | Zilla | lesouvage, heb jij ook al zon neo-Fr? |
| 20:10.56 | lesouvage | yes |
| 20:11.14 | Zilla | ow srry i translate it..... do you have a neo FR? |
| 20:11.19 | Zilla | with wich carrier do you use it? |
| 20:12.04 | lesouvage | It arrived 4 days ago and I spend a lot of time to get some basic knowledge about setting up the device. |
| 20:12.39 | lesouvage | I'm not using it as my regular phone and my advice to you is not to that either. |
| 20:12.39 | Zilla | did you ordered it @ pulster.eu? |
| 20:13.31 | lesouvage | I bought it from Wim vandenputte from Belgium. |
| 20:14.09 | lesouvage | I have tried it as my phone one day but I missed several calls. |
| 20:14.46 | lesouvage | I'm now playng around with the gps apps and that is just great. really impressive and with a lot of potential. |
| 20:14.56 | Zorkman | lesouvage: if you want to use it as your daily phone: use qtopia |
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| 20:15.43 | lesouvage | Zorkman: I also have a hacked iPhone ;-) |
| 20:15.49 | Zilla | hmmz pulster.eu hasnt got any OM-FR on stock :( |
| 20:16.03 | Zilla | first gen iphone lesouvage ? |
| 20:16.17 | Zorkman | gps is indeed quite good (although this is my first experience with GPS, i'm quite |
| 20:16.28 | Zorkman | *happy with it |
| 20:17.16 | lesouvage | Zilla: I have it since november. The user interface is great and redefined the mobile phone. From a technical point of view it is not all that impressive and closed, very very closed. |
| 20:17.19 | *** join/#openmoko pb__ (n=pb@88-109-65-0.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:18.13 | Zilla | yeah... but so closed that only apple can let you install software... and if you installed software, at a later point they can just remotely erase it ;( |
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| 20:18.47 | Zorkman | too bad still has that many problems :( |
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| 20:18.56 | Zilla | with 3g and stuff |
| 20:19.08 | Zorkman | bah, I don't really care about 3g |
| 20:19.15 | Zilla | :( btw how does a 3gsimcard from kpn/hi perform in a om-FR? |
| 20:19.28 | Zilla | i know that you only have gprs coverage |
| 20:19.34 | Zilla | since the om isnt a 3g device |
| 20:19.35 | lesouvage | lesouvage: I had some nervous moments when jailbraking the phone. A jailbroken phone is great, lots of apps in the installer with public and open repositories. This really should be an example for the openmoko community. |
| 20:19.39 | Zorkman | don't know... I know a basic JIM MOBILE (base network) works great |
| 20:20.02 | lesouvage | I need some rest, I'm talking to myself on an irc channel |
| 20:20.11 | Zorkman | no you're not :) |
| 20:20.22 | Zilla | hmmz.... the only thing that the iphone has a great homebrew community is that its an apple product i think |
| 20:20.28 | Zilla | and that the interface is hot/new |
| 20:21.23 | *** join/#openmoko admiral0 (n=admiral0@151.57.202.75) |
| 20:21.30 | admiral0 | hi |
| 20:21.42 | Zilla | Ey |
| 20:21.43 | admiral0 | i've got a problem with opkg |
| 20:22.00 | admiral0 | Package libmpeg2-0 md5sum mismatch. Either the opkg or the package index are corrupt. Try 'opkg update'. |
| 20:22.00 | lesouvage | Zilla: the interface is close to perfect. I can explain it to everbody in 2 minutes. And it looks great and is responding without serious delay. But the businesmodel is greedy and very very 20th century. |
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| 20:22.30 | Zilla | the interface of the iphone is great indeed.... but i havent got an iphone |
| 20:22.34 | Zilla | its too expensive :( |
| 20:23.05 | Zilla | en het abbonnement dat je erbij moet nemen is ook zoo duur :( |
| 20:23.07 | lesouvage | The keyboard is pretty useless. Is there a way to replace it. I have tried it but I failed |
| 20:23.10 | Zilla | srry for the dutch |
| 20:23.18 | Zorkman | lesouvage: which distro are you using? |
| 20:23.22 | lesouvage | Zilla: that is what I mean with greedy |
| 20:23.26 | lesouvage | om2008.9 |
| 20:23.33 | Zilla | i know... |
| 20:24.07 | admiral0 | does anyone have any idea? |
| 20:24.08 | Zorkman | lesouvage: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Keyboard_Toggle |
| 20:24.30 | Zorkman | admiral0: maybe you can try to wget it and then install it? |
| 20:24.34 | lesouvage | Zorkman: thanks |
| 20:24.48 | admiral0 | Zorkman: tried already |
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| 20:24.57 | admiral0 | no success |
| 20:25.29 | admiral0 | and it happens with _any_ package |
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| 20:25.58 | lesouvage | Zilla, I know someone who has a hacked iPhone for sale for EUR 350,- It is used very short time but the costumer wasn't happy with the iPhone. It is a phoneshop |
| 20:26.32 | Zilla | great... but i always buy electronics first hand... |
| 20:26.44 | Zilla | i dont trust 2nd hand things |
| 20:27.35 | Zorkman | fudge it, i'm going to the bar |
| 20:27.44 | Zorkman | tomorrow there is a new day to fiddle with the fr :) |
| 20:27.51 | Zorkman | tot morgen! |
| 20:28.17 | Zilla | laterz, bye zorkman |
| 20:29.00 | Zilla | just... wich phone shop are you talking about lesouvage ? |
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| 20:34.08 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 20:37.03 | lesouvage | Zorkman: I have installed illume-config but the "restart X" command doesn't work. Should I reboot or is there another option? |
| 20:37.24 | lindi- | lesouvage: have you reported that as abug? |
| 20:37.56 | lesouvage | I just discovered it, 2 minutes ago, no I haven't report it, should I? |
| 20:38.21 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-236-44.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 20:38.46 | lesouvage | Maybe the "restart X" command isn't correct |
| 20:39.39 | lindi- | correct? |
| 20:40.05 | Zilla | startx restart anyone? or a simulated alt+ctrl+backspace? |
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| 20:53.51 | lesouvage | I discovered somthing strange. mkdir OSM results in a dir with the name osm. |
| 20:53.53 | tuXXX | kill the X server? |
| 20:53.59 | *** join/#openmoko Schugy (n=chris@Q3c7f.q.pppool.de) |
| 20:54.08 | tuXXX | lesouvage: on a fat fs? |
| 20:54.59 | lesouvage | tuXXX: yes, the sd card. now I understand |
| 20:56.03 | lesouvage | btw: my qwerty keyboard is working. Still don't understand the totaly unusable default keyboard. |
| 20:56.50 | tuXXX | which one? |
| 20:57.04 | lesouvage | the one that start guessing whet word you are typing |
| 20:57.41 | tuXXX | I think that it's one of the best things that I tried so far |
| 20:58.12 | tuXXX | it's not the one you should use if you try to use a terminal, I agree |
| 20:58.13 | lesouvage | tuXXXX: the strange thing is that I have a Maps dir on the SD card, with a capital |
| 20:58.47 | tuXXX | lesouvage: yes, fat behaves like that |
| 20:59.19 | tuXXX | if there is both capital and non-capital letter, it's displayed correctly |
| 20:59.29 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun` (n=ajbrun@host81-151-110-201.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:59.40 | lesouvage | tuXXX: it simply doesn't work typing in dutch |
| 21:00.34 | tuXXX | lesouvage: that's right, but I don't think that it's a big bug, I think that it will be easy to change the language with the right dictionnary |
| 21:02.15 | lesouvage | with sms you have the same, but it simpy doesn't fit into my system I'm very happy with the qwerty keyboard ;-) |
| 21:03.29 | *** join/#openmoko rufus__ (n=rufus@c-98-226-41-174.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:04.03 | tuXXX | the bad thing about the querty keyboard is that you can't use it with you fingers |
| 21:05.04 | lesouvage | tuXXX: well, you got a freat stylus with the freerunner! |
| 21:06.10 | tuXXX | I did, but it remains a stylus, it's not something I want to always carry with me. |
| 21:06.38 | tuXXX | I'd maybe do it if I could hide it somewhere in the case of the phone |
| 21:08.09 | tuXXX | that's here that personal preferences come |
| 21:08.40 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@cmr-208-124-159-154.cr.net.cable.rogers.com) |
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| 21:15.17 | Pyrasi | hmm....so i have FDOM installed on my moko...and calling works until i goto the contacts. Once in contacts, it says: "Loading sim.." and just sits there. After this...no calls work anymore |
| 21:15.28 | Pyrasi | anyone know how to fix this? I |
| 21:19.49 | *** join/#openmoko lesouvage_ (n=lesouvag@cc341200-a.assen1.dr.home.nl) |
| 21:21.37 | lindi- | Pyrasi: what does it send to gsm? |
| 21:21.43 | Zilla | bye all |
| 21:21.45 | Pyrasi | how can i tell? |
| 21:21.49 | lindi- | Pyrasi: strace? |
| 21:21.52 | *** join/#openmoko Juice_ (n=jorutila@vipunen.hut.fi) |
| 21:24.03 | Pyrasi | gimme a sec |
| 21:24.31 | *** join/#openmoko kgoetz (n=kgoetz@gnewsense/friend/pdpc.active.kgoetz) |
| 21:24.48 | Pyrasi | apparently locks up on suspend as well =/. I had to take the battery out to restart. |
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| 21:27.11 | Pyrasi | okay...its back up |
| 21:27.35 | Pyrasi | I have never used strace before....what params should i pass it? |
| 21:27.48 | tuXXX | strace programname |
| 21:28.28 | Pyrasi | k....anyone know the program name of the contacts app? |
| 21:28.40 | Pyrasi | guess i could look it up... |
| 21:30.43 | Pyrasi | DISPLAY=0 strace qcop-x11-launch addressbook %f |
| 21:30.49 | Pyrasi | does that sound right? |
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| 21:38.36 | Pyrasi | lindi-: Does DISPLAY=0 strace qcop-x11-launch addressbook, sound like the right command? |
| 21:44.51 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213-152-39-89.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) |
| 21:51.10 | Gnutoo | hello, what's the version of sdl in 2008.9? |
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| 21:56.07 | *** part/#openmoko Proton23 (n=proton@p57BA7BF6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 22:01.48 | svein | How can i format my SD card to default after a failed debian install? |
| 22:02.07 | svein | I cant unmount it, and removing it from fstab doesnt help |
| 22:03.31 | viq | Gnutoo: libsdl-1.2-0 - 1.2.9-r5 - Simple DirectMedia Layer - X11 Edition |
| 22:03.46 | Gnutoo | viq, ok...thanks a lot |
| 22:05.05 | viq | Gnutoo: actually, http://rafb.net/p/jFtjiL68.html |
| 22:05.53 | Gnutoo | that's why it doesn't want to install my libsdl 1.2.9-r5 |
| 22:06.18 | Gnutoo | it's because the version is exactly the same... |
| 22:06.39 | *** join/#openmoko jamasi (n=jamasi@kristall.xtal.RWTH-Aachen.DE) |
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| 22:11.38 | svein | Nevermind, I used a camera to format the card instead. |
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| 23:20.54 | koenigjm | Hey all, anyone having trouble with exposure and assassin after opkg updating with the angstrom repos (on 2008.9)? |
| 23:21.12 | koenigjm | even better anyone know of a solution? ;) |
| 23:23.31 | koenigjm | sorry, I performed an opkg upgrade not just an update |
| 23:24.27 | *** part/#openmoko FilipLinux4BE (n=Filip@77.109.122.106) |
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| 23:50.13 | Tm_M | hmm, I'm trying to make gprs work in 2008.8 or so without network connection in it, not a chance? |