IRC log for #openmoko on 20080921

`00:00.55`	`gregdude`	`mesa-dbg did install, but the others are not working still.... so can this really be a missing dependency from the repository? where do i file a bug, if it is?`
`00:06.32`	`*** join/#openmoko mattington (n=DevUser@211.100.255.114)`
`00:14.09`	`*** join/#openmoko DieMumie1 (n=DieMumie@W19ed.w.pppool.de)`
`00:26.02`	`*** join/#openmoko KenYoung (n=Ken@pool-68-160-0-143.bos.east.verizon.net)`
`00:26.12`	`*** join/#openmoko tdobson (n=a_lead_f@dobsad.plus.com)`
`00:33.38`	`Infoport`	`should I untar SHR's modules...tgz in the root dir, or in the /boot partition (with the kernel)?`
`00:37.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`I would expect root dir`
`00:37.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:39.04`	`Infoport`	`SpeedEvil that seems to be right. I started to untar where it was in /home/root, and it didnt put it in absolute dir, so I moved to /`
`00:56.51`	`*** join/#openmoko bmidgley (n=bmidgley@c-24-2-92-215.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`01:00.21`	`*** join/#openmoko tsuchan (n=tomek@chello089079062222.chello.pl)`
`01:00.43`	`*** part/#openmoko tsuchan (n=tomek@chello089079062222.chello.pl)`
`01:01.03`	`*** join/#openmoko El_Senator (n=El_Senat@0x4dd4371c.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`01:04.11`	`*** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@BAA16c8.baa.pppool.de)`
`01:14.47`	`*** join/#openmoko t0h (i=tommi@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-fe0cdf00-1.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`01:15.05`	`*** part/#openmoko El_Senator (n=El_Senat@0x4dd4371c.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`01:16.49`	`*** join/#openmoko Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)`
`01:23.07`	`*** join/#openmoko swc\|666 (n=swc\|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821)`
`01:24.36`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`woo! another 1.5 hrs of OSM trails done. eventually i'll even get them processed and uploaded :\|`
`01:24.40`	`*** join/#openmoko matholio (n=matt@124-170-235-103.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`01:24.48`	`*** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@212.98.171.13)`
`01:25.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`:)`
`01:26.26`	`*** join/#openmoko Yanroy (n=rdm@68-186-247-225.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com)`
`01:26.31`	`Yanroy`	`hi all`
`01:26.46`	`Yanroy`	`can I get 2008.9 by doing an opkg upgrade on 2008.8?`
`01:26.57`	`Yanroy`	`and is there any reason why I might not want to do that?`
`01:29.48`	`slaxxin`	`starting fresh is always more better`
`01:33.09`	`KenYoung`	`Yanroy, There's a discussion of whether yo can upgrade or not on the cummunity mailing list under the thead "[ASU 2008.9] Is it required to reflash, or opkg update & upgrade is enough?"`
`01:33.49`	`KenYoung`	`Sorry about the typos - I was on the phone...`
`01:34.45`	`*** join/#openmoko Infinyte (n=Infinyte@66.146.252.212)`
`01:35.23`	`Infinyte`	`Hmm.. How do you connect to the internet via Debian right off the bat? All the things I normally use aren't there. So I'm not sure how. (Via WiFi I mean.)`
`01:35.30`	`stevenSn`	`my qpe is consuming 98% of the cpu, I don't think it is is scanning the SD card for media (because I've commented out the lines in Storage.conf, and strace doesn't show sdcard activity). I also don't get any audio when making/receiving calls. Any ideas?`
`01:37.04`	`KenYoung`	`stevenSn, I've asked that question many times, and never received a response. Having a process go CPU bound for several minutes after every reboot is VERY annoying.`
`01:37.58`	`KenYoung`	`stevenSn, Does qpe stay CPU bound for more than a few minutes after rebooting?`
`01:37.58`	`Yanroy`	`KenYoung: thanks for pointing me to that thread. I just read it`
`01:38.17`	`Yanroy`	`I'm still confused though... that thread didn't seem to reach a definitive conclusion`
`01:38.28`	`Yanroy`	`they seem to be claiming that 2008.8 updated == 2008.9 updated?`
`01:38.34`	`stevenSn`	`KenYoung: This isn't after a reboot. I reboot and things seem 'fine' for a while, but eventually qpe goes CPU bound. Have you confirmed.`
`01:38.36`	`Yanroy`	`which makes no sense, and they didn't seem able to verify it`
`01:39.48`	`gregdude`	`Yanroy, I had today 2008.8 updated, used for a while then reflashed with 2008.9.... they feel pretty much the same, the same kinds of instabilities...`
`01:40.17`	`KenYoung`	`stevenSn, Oh - I don't see that behavior. Are you running the newly announced 2008.9 ?`
`01:40.48`	`stevenSn`	`KenYoung: No this is a 2008.08 updated last about a week ago (maybe a bit less)`
`01:42.24`	`Infinyte`	`Anyone know how to connect to Wifi on Debian? >.>`
`01:42.29`	`*** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com)`
`01:42.29`	`gregdude`	`stevenSn, then it worth an update, last week there were a few tweeks, that worth the effort (gtk looks much better now, e.g. for TangoGPS, for starters...)`
`01:42.58`	`KenYoung`	`stevenSn, Sorry, I haven't seen that - I'd recommend flashing the 2008.9 kernel and rootfs. But I don't know much.`
`01:43.45`	`*** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@77.128.22.200)`
`01:44.52`	`gregdude`	`though, having said that, i have more unexplained freezing too....`
`01:47.31`	`*** join/#openmoko mwester-treo (n=user@nslu2-linux/mwester)`
`01:48.09`	`*** join/#openmoko RayDar (n=raydar@c-67-171-26-100.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`01:48.27`	`*** join/#openmoko slaxxer (n=root@ip70-178-27-23.ks.ks.cox.net)`
`01:48.29`	`RayDar`	`how do I recover from a completely drained battery again?`
`01:48.33`	`stevenSn`	`I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between the 2008-08 updated from 6 days ago vs 2008.09`
`01:48.59`	`gregdude`	`RayDar, remove batter, and put it back, press AUX and hold, plug in cable and pray...`
`01:49.34`	`gregdude`	`RayDar, for me it works twice out of 3 times...`
`01:49.38`	`stevenSn`	`RayDar: Plug the freerunner into the wallcharger, leave it off for a few hours then turn it on, if you can't boot now with the charger plugged in`
`01:50.01`	`slaxxer`	`g`
`01:50.35`	`gregdude`	`may be anecdotal, but I never had to wait hours...`
`01:50.44`	`RayDar`	`gregdude: Holy crap! That did it. Thanks for the tip.`
`01:51.20`	`slaxxer`	`gg`
`01:51.31`	`RayDar`	`really has to remember not to let it drain all the way.`
`01:52.19`	`gregdude`	`sure thing.... hard to keep the little devil from draining, though....`
`01:52.31`	`*** part/#openmoko slaxxer (n=root@ip70-178-27-23.ks.ks.cox.net)`
`01:52.36`	`mwester-treo`	`somebody should write that missing bit of code to shutdown before that happens in the first place...`
`01:53.29`	`gregdude`	`is there really now trickle charging, though? it is pretty annoying that it charges fully half the night, and then it is totally drained again by morning....`
`01:53.31`	`RayDar`	`mwester-treo: Indeed`
`01:54.23`	`Tupeco`	`I wonder if my fdom drains the battery much faster than normal since I broke gsm by tweaking the gprs-connect script`
`01:55.02`	`Tupeco`	`turing gsm-mux and wifi off, still drained the battery in three hours`
`01:55.37`	`stevenSn`	`I've noticed that sometimes the phone uses a lot of power when it is 'suspended' but rebooting puts it back to the normal suspend usage.`
`01:56.35`	`Tupeco`	`although just now it didn't drain completely in 6 hours.. could be the gesture daemon, which Iäm not sure I turned off earlier`
`01:57.03`	`gregdude`	`I use it for GPS-ing a lot, GSM+GPS on, Brightness on medium - over 5 hours of usage every time.`
`01:57.31`	`Tupeco`	`does the gps require an external antenna?`
`01:57.40`	`ShellEvil`	`tuqs: no`
`01:57.44`	`gregdude`	`no, but it helps :))`
`01:57.49`	`Tupeco`	`k`
`01:58.08`	`gregdude`	`without antenna - takes 10-15-20 minutes sometimes to lock on enough satellites`
`01:58.16`	`*** part/#openmoko Infinyte (n=Infinyte@66.146.252.212)`
`01:58.30`	`gregdude`	`after about 30-45 minutes it can be pretty awesome signal on its own...`
`01:58.45`	`*** join/#openmoko centaur5 (n=fishman@209-33-197-88.dsl.infowest.net)`
`01:59.00`	`gregdude`	`with antenna, however, locks on in a few minutes, and great signal (even inside the house)`
`01:59.17`	`Tupeco`	`do we have gsm-assisted gps anywhere near in the future?`
`01:59.25`	`gregdude`	`unplug the antenna afterwards, and the phone keeps the good lock`
`02:00.00`	`gregdude`	`you mean kinda gsm-triangulation like the iPhone had?`
`02:00.25`	`Tupeco`	`don't know about the iPhone, but similar to the E90 communicator`
`02:01.09`	`gregdude`	`i think that's an open area to fill in...`
`02:01.33`	`gregdude`	`Apple could do it, probably, because of collaboration with the service provider, which let them have all the tower positions`
`02:02.00`	`gregdude`	`i was playing with manual gsm today, and you can get the tower codes that way`
`02:02.13`	`Tupeco`	`I'm not sure if you need collaboration from the service providers`
`02:02.54`	`gregdude`	`so if someone would put together a program, that uses gsm, and records the towers, then share that information with other OM people - that would work....`
`02:03.27`	`gregdude`	`needs lots of contribution but that's what the whole thing is about....`
`02:04.51`	`Tupeco`	`huh, freerunner is actually listed as supporting assisted gps in wikipedia`
`02:05.24`	`gregdude`	`isn't assisted gps a different thing?`
`02:06.01`	`Tupeco`	`it uses gsm to get a rough bearing, thus aiding the gps to focus on the correct satellites.. or something`
`02:06.10`	`gregdude`	`i think agps is through the interwebs (or at some places through radio?) to provide extra information for more precise location`
`02:06.47`	`Tupeco`	`I'm not at all sure if I've even understood the concept correctly`
`02:06.55`	`gregdude`	`like there is a very well known base station and you determine your location compared to that...`
`02:07.18`	`ShellEvil`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGPS`
`02:07.24`	`gregdude`	`in the States they have a few stations like that, in Europe I couldn't find any nearby...`
`02:07.57`	`ShellEvil`	`There are several different things called AGPS - that explains`
`02:08.37`	`gregdude`	`Cheers :) one should never forget: wikipedia's your friend.`
`02:09.28`	`gregdude`	`by the way, has anyone tried doing manual GSM AT codes with 2008.8/2008.9?`
`02:09.47`	`gregdude`	`through the qtopia interface`
`02:10.35`	`gregdude`	`i think maybe it should be somehow through qcop, but couldn't figure out...`
`02:10.53`	`*** join/#openmoko mikef187 (n=mike@c-68-54-9-73.hsd1.nm.comcast.net)`
`02:11.30`	`mikef187`	`So I found an app that will charge the freemode fast`
`02:11.53`	`mikef187`	`freerunner`
`02:11.59`	`mikef187`	`BCharge`
`02:12.48`	`gregdude`	`how fast is fast?`
`02:12.57`	`Tupeco`	`I got a nice jolt from the wall charger today after disconnecting it from both the wall and the phone`
`02:13.06`	`Tupeco`	`wonder how mach that was`
`02:13.09`	`Tupeco`	`much`
`02:14.26`	`gregdude`	`i used to get this from my Eee charger all the time :) OM discharges that fast that I don't need to unplug the charger, so it's pretty safe...`
`02:15.15`	`*** join/#openmoko arquebus (n=shintaro@201.148.62.226)`
`02:16.39`	`*** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@212-183-116-210.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`02:19.00`	`*** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@85.182.55.187)`
`02:20.17`	`*** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213.152.39.89)`
`02:33.53`	`malik1972`	`someone out there who subscribed to a mailing list?`
`02:34.34`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`reasonably pointless question isnt that?`
`02:34.41`	`malik1972`	`no!!`
`02:35.05`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`i have to admit, i saw no point in it.`
`02:35.22`	`malik1972`	`Kamping_Kaiser: do you get every single email or is it possible to get them bundled?`
`02:36.14`	`malik1972`	`Kamping_Kaiser: i am asking because i want to sent them to my business adress, dozens of emails would be no good`
`02:36.42`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`malik1972, its a mailman list, so it should support digest mode`
`02:36.54`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`depending on how its configured, it could be from one email a day up`
`02:37.54`	`malik1972`	`Kamping_Kaiser: that sounds good`
`02:38.55`	`malik1972`	`Kamping_Kaiser: using private internet is forbidden, private email is allowed it would be a good solution for me to be informed while at work;-)`
`02:39.16`	`malik1972`	`Kamping_Kaiser: thanx i will try it`
`02:39.46`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`malik1972, good luck with it`
`02:44.14`	`malik1972`	`Kamping_Kaiser: my first question was more or less "is someone awake?";-)`
`02:45.22`	`*** join/#openmoko nite613 (n=chris@i216-58-80-207.cybersurf.com)`
`02:45.28`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`malik1972, perhaps next time move on to your real qustion (in this case "can someone tell me if the offical lists support diget mode")`
`02:46.56`	`malik1972`	`Kamping_Kaiser: i didnt know about "digest mode" as i avoided mailing lists for years, but you are right concerning the "dont ask to ask, just ask"`
`02:47.46`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`malik1972, yep. i'm not intending to be a bastard, its just easy for me :p so no offence meant`
`02:48.57`	`malik1972`	`Kamping_Kaiser: no problem, you cant offend me, i would care as i dont know you`
`02:49.08`	`malik1972`	`^nt`
`02:49.13`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`nod.`
`02:50.29`	`malik1972`	`what distribution(s) you are using with your neo/freerunner?`
`02:50.42`	`*** join/#openmoko Infinyte (n=Infinyte@66-146-252-212.gtmc.net)`
`02:50.46`	`*** part/#openmoko Infinyte (n=Infinyte@66-146-252-212.gtmc.net)`
`02:51.05`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`the last daily of the gtk one - 2007.12? before 2008.08 came out`
`02:51.19`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`and i'm half way through a debian install, which i should get back to at some point`
`02:52.12`	`gregdude`	`2008.9`
`02:52.29`	`malik1972`	`my problem with debian is that i have to setup the desktop myself to fit the needs of the smaller screen`
`02:52.58`	`malik1972`	`did they ported illume to debian? this was the aim some weeks ago`
`02:53.06`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`i was going to try for a pure CLI, and get the FR acting as a multi-network router`
`02:55.37`	`*** join/#openmoko andersfeder (n=feder@0x5552b3e2.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`02:57.08`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: i also updated to 2008.9, but some central issues like "audio quality" remains unsolved and its not on the milestone list for 2008.10, little bit disappointing for me`
`02:58.20`	`gregdude`	`to be honest, since I have my OM, i used it to call anyone eactly twice, and not a single message, so cannot really testify about sund quality. those two calls were alright, though...`
`02:59.25`	`gregdude`	`mostly using it as a gadget - gps and some home-brewed games....`
`03:00.38`	`gregdude`	`when I got it, first that was disappointing, now can see progress in several areas, so getting more excited every day. even with the outstanding issues`
`03:03.19`	`*** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@65.249.24.103)`
`03:04.02`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: thats true. i use qtopia and the poor audio qualitiy besides some waking ups from calls are the only issues with this distribution, i could use it as my main phone if they are solved`
`03:05.16`	`gregdude`	`i really dislike the keyboard - that's the main thing keeping me off (besides the practical issue of short battery life)`
`03:06.28`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: the keyboard is really really good for writing sms, qtopia 4.4 will probably get a better terminal keyboard replacing the matchbox one`
`03:07.20`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: i reconfigured the predictive one, added german language and changed the size of the keyboard, so i can use my fingers`
`03:07.34`	`gregdude`	`that sounds like a good start...`
`03:08.19`	`gregdude`	`i think "previewing" every single thing you type is really strange, though... and makes everything much slower...`
`03:08.26`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: as they will provide rotation there should be no problems anymore on the keyboard side`
`03:09.05`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: its not usable for the terminal etc thats sure`
`03:11.09`	`gregdude`	`or anything :) asking your PIN at the start - it's blanked out, but while typing there's the preview for anyone to see.... Adding a key for wireless network in the gui? the code is wider then the screen in preview, so you cannot even se the last few letters when typing....`
`03:11.53`	`*** join/#openmoko zeno (n=zeno@75-173-254-82.clsp.qwest.net)`
`03:12.35`	`gregdude`	`but these are pretty solvable things - should just get down to modify the existing system for myself, not just adding software (and complaining about the state of things :)....`
`03:12.50`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: okay, i was speaking of trolltechs qtopia not om 2008.x for my opinion om should drop qtopia as soon as possible and use fso`
`03:13.35`	`gregdude`	`fair enough :)`
`03:14.09`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: the qtopia stuff should be a intermediate solution`
`03:14.10`	`gregdude`	`how much is the FSO just an experiment and how much is that the "future"?`
`03:14.19`	`malik1972`	`its the future`
`03:15.00`	`KenYoung`	`gregdude, Yup, FSO is the future 2008.x was probably an expensive diversion.`
`03:15.14`	`malik1972`	`integration of qtopia was a bad idea in my opinion`
`03:15.41`	`gregdude`	`Then I shouldn't invest too much time into hacking this one, probably :)`
`03:16.28`	`malik1972`	`most applications are on the 200x side so many people use it nevertheless`
`03:16.57`	`gregdude`	`i tried Milestone III yesterday, but it wasn't really working for me - stuck at "connecting to dbus"....`
`03:16.57`	`malik1972`	`what about the shr project?`
`03:17.38`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: i didnt tried it really, but they provide updates, did you installed them?`
`03:18.22`	`malik1972`	`the ui is just a proof of concept`
`03:18.45`	`malik1972`	`its the right way`
`03:19.00`	`gregdude`	`i cannot say I spent much time with it this time :) flashed back my working 2008.9, because I wanted to use it...`
`03:19.41`	`malik1972`	`if fso fails om will fail as the intermediate solution is no solution and they will not deliver it with trolltechs qtopia;-)`
`03:19.41`	`gregdude`	`the idea is good, though, i'm interested. just need to find the time to basically start to know my freerunner from scratch again...`
`03:20.19`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: use a multiboot system`
`03:20.43`	`gregdude`	`one on the SD card, one on the flash?`
`03:20.53`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: yepp`
`03:20.58`	`*** join/#openmoko LetoTo1 (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com)`
`03:21.23`	`*** join/#openmoko niki (n=niki@0x5553169c.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`03:21.26`	`*** part/#openmoko LetoTo1 (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com)`
`03:21.29`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: i have qtopia on nand, debian+fdom+fso ms3 on sd`
`03:21.46`	`gregdude`	`you're right, should set it up.... another thing I didn't get around to do yet. :)`
`03:21.53`	`*** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au)`
`03:22.33`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: once setuped its a very good wy to test the newer stuff without touching your "main installation"`
`03:23.20`	`gregdude`	`You just did the things according to the wiki? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card`
`03:23.42`	`*** join/#openmoko lpotter_ (n=ljp@CPE-124-191-144-181.vic.bigpond.net.au)`
`03:23.49`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: i am not sure, i did it some months ago, maybe they changed something`
`03:24.38`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: it should be much easier now, using some scripts to setup the uboot environment properly`
`03:25.07`	`gregdude`	`what scripts do you mean? i could always use easier ways :)`
`03:25.55`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: i know that the debian installation provided a script to manipulate uboot_env`
`03:26.11`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: and is saw one on the mailing list`
`03:27.26`	`*** join/#openmoko slaxxer (n=root@ip70-178-27-23.ks.ks.cox.net)`
`03:27.31`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: perl script mentioned here http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/support/2008-September/003037.html`
`03:30.14`	`gregdude`	`that looks pretty encouraging to start with "i destroyed something and cannot make it work again" ... :)`
`03:32.11`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: ohh, i guess he will not have the problems i had, it took me one weekend to "realive" the nand boot`
`03:33.15`	`malik1972`	`gregdude: good night`
`03:33.15`	`*** join/#openmoko meteoryte (n=meteoryt@203-217-35-123.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`03:33.24`	`*** join/#openmoko zeno (n=zeno@97-112-135-23.clsp.qwest.net)`
`03:33.35`	`*** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123.240.172.254)`
`03:34.08`	`*** join/#openmoko gambler (n=gambler@124-171-160-32.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`03:37.40`	`*** join/#openmoko zeno_ (n=zeno@97-112-135-23.clsp.qwest.net)`
`03:41.15`	`*** join/#openmoko datenmau1wurf (n=datenmau@e178141021.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`03:42.33`	`*** join/#openmoko mmaestri (i=c9fe4ba2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-096f5b275141ff83)`
`04:03.07`	`*** join/#openmoko swc\|666 (n=swc\|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821)`
`04:12.25`	`*** join/#openmoko wipf (i=wipf@vpn026a.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de)`
`04:26.07`	`*** join/#openmoko shaz (n=shazaliv@116.58.100.82)`
`04:27.46`	`*** join/#openmoko leinirAWAY (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:27.46`	`*** join/#openmoko jpieper (n=jpieper@207-180-187-171.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com)`
`04:28.03`	`*** join/#openmoko andersfeder (n=feder@0x5552b3e2.adsl.cybercity.dk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.03`	`*** join/#openmoko nite613 (n=chris@i216-58-80-207.cybersurf.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.03`	`*** join/#openmoko aliases133 (n=alias@124-168-152-234.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`04:28.03`	`*** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@unixboard/users/neldoreth) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.03`	`*** join/#openmoko bove (n=opera@cm-84.208.114.37.getinternet.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.03`	`*** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de)`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@bofh.xelerance.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko moo--- (n=quassel@oul110-gw10.netplaza.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko Tig\| (n=tigger@82.153.215.237) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko boozkachu_ (n=nick@mail.phgroup.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko rep (n=rep@work.etcho.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko felipe_ (n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko tomjoad440 (n=tomjoad4@adsl-70-130-176-119.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko RP (i=1000@tim.rpsys.net)`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko drazak (n=drazak@drazak.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko sprite_tm (n=jeroen@sprite.student.utwente.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko harzi (n=dani@84-73-143-231.dclient.hispeed.ch) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=tasn@89.1.24.224.dynamic.barak-online.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko pb_ (n=pb@castle.reciva.com)`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko warkult (n=warkult@god-mo.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.04`	`*** join/#openmoko treb0r (n=rob@89.21.12.17) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko tuqs (i=tuqs@tuqsnet.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko Karrde (i=sehaton@shodan.irccrew.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko cryptix (n=cryptix@foxtrot076.server4you.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko HdR (n=hdr@87.118.118.174) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko xcasex (n=rrg@ua-83-227-156-234.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko Zanoi (i=zanoi@zanoi.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko starox (n=fredo@sd-11162.dedibox.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko Basheri (i=basher@hehz.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko aevin (i=eivindsy@unaffiliated/aevin) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko jakob_ (i=jakob@pureenergy.cc) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko mBartGS (n=bart@88.191.65.220) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko apollo13 (n=napollo1@unaffiliated/apollo13) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko Brinky (i=brinky@faui2k3.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko blinx (n=blinx@unixboard/users/blinx) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko sparrow (n=sparrow@mortar.walled.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko Viiru (n=viiru@ryoko.zyrain.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko nibbo (i=nibbo@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-2e5dea777643cedf) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko Elleo (n=Elleo@unaffiliated/elleo) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.05`	`*** join/#openmoko nyu (n=rmh@unaffiliated/nyu)`
`04:28.06`	`*** join/#openmoko feitingen (i=feitinge@cakebox.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.06`	`*** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@webbox1220.server-home.net)`
`04:28.06`	`*** join/#openmoko mpr (i=mp@solute.xen-host.de)`
`04:28.06`	`*** join/#openmoko Agrajag- (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.06`	`*** join/#openmoko HardDisk_WP (n=Marco@wikipedia/harddisk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.06`	`*** join/#openmoko TobiX (i=tobias@zoidberg.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.06`	`*** join/#openmoko ixs (n=andreas@lacht.ueber.gattinnen-im-netz.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.06`	`*** join/#openmoko beni_ (n=beni@skyforcesystems.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.06`	`*** join/#openmoko keithp (n=keithp@home.keithp.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.25`	`*** join/#openmoko Kero (n=kero@i66203.upc-i.chello.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.25`	`*** join/#openmoko wanders (i=andersg@0x63.nu)`
`04:28.25`	`*** join/#openmoko Mononoke (i=social@cray.x86.sk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.26`	`*** join/#openmoko h4v (n=h4v@ks28152.kimsufi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.26`	`*** join/#openmoko transylvania (i=leon@lor34-1-82-240-239-234.fbx.proxad.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.26`	`*** join/#openmoko aloril (n=aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe25fa00-28.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`04:28.26`	`*** join/#openmoko mjr (i=mjr@aulis.sange.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.26`	`*** join/#openmoko Tm_T (i=tm_travo@ubuntu/member/kde.developer/jkekkonen) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.26`	`*** join/#openmoko xkr47 (i=xkr47@a88-112-22-94.elisa-laajakaista.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.26`	`*** join/#openmoko str4nd (i=str4nd@wikipedia/str4nd) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.28`	`*** join/#openmoko rafa (n=rafa@200.123.158.181) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.28`	`*** join/#openmoko Tanuva (n=tanuva@e177230254.adsl.alicedsl.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko Thegh (n=quaim@88-206-219-253.highlandnet.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko bipak (n=bip@p57B8586F.dip.t-dialin.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@p579B8944.dip.t-dialin.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko paulproteus (n=paulprot@2002:cbb2:8293:0:0:0:0:1) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko Kt_ (n=Kirsat@adsl-232-4-32.asm.bellsouth.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko DEac- (n=deac@Argentum.DenKn.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko rtp (n=rtp@sat78-7-88-166-121-96.fbx.proxad.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko numbah (n=pkoskela@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko wejp (n=wejp@moon.spacetechnology.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko Robot101 (i=robot101@light.bluelinux.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko _XXLT (n=XXLT@herkules.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko vallor (i=scott@pdpc/supporter/monthlygold/vallor) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko parodyoflanguage (i=pseudony@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko weirdedout (n=gonePost@220-253-56-105.VIC.netspace.net.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko dgilmore (n=dgilmore@fedora/dgilmore) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`04:28.29`	`*** join/#openmoko ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie)`
`04:30.50`	`*** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer (n=jr@84.147.215.149)`
`04:31.00`	`*** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.167.67.149)`
`04:36.04`	`*** join/#openmoko Ganneff (i=joerg@freenode/staff/debian.joerg)`
`04:57.12`	`*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh)`
`04:59.01`	`*** part/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au)`
`05:06.47`	`*** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw)`
`05:08.24`	`*** join/#openmoko dwb (n=david@pdpc/supporter/active/dwb)`
`05:24.33`	`*** join/#openmoko bricode (n=bricode@200.122.185.24)`
`05:28.12`	`*** join/#openmoko Kt_ (n=Kirsat@adsl-232-4-32.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`05:30.01`	`*** join/#openmoko zeno_ (n=zeno@97-112-133-51.clsp.qwest.net)`
`05:42.35`	`*** join/#openmoko peter-b (n=peter_b@p5497B40D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`05:43.43`	`*** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@c-d364e455.04-302-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`05:43.54`	`*** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=user@61.16.248.242)`
`05:48.32`	`*** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw)`
`06:15.51`	`*** part/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@host-125-92.lalacap.clients.pavlovmedia.com)`
`06:16.26`	`*** join/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@69.42.18.131)`
`06:16.31`	`*** part/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@69.42.18.131)`
`06:16.47`	`*** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123.240.172.254)`
`06:26.27`	`*** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@135.84-49-129.nextgentel.com)`
`06:30.37`	`*** join/#openmoko rddDavid51 (n=roudoudo@gar31-1-82-224-8-235.fbx.proxad.net)`
`06:32.40`	`*** join/#openmoko lawnjart (n=scsh@pool-72-87-42-8.ptldor.fios.verizon.net)`
`06:33.59`	`*** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244)`
`06:37.23`	`*** join/#openmoko Zoup (n=Zoup@78.110.121.1)`
`06:37.28`	`Zoup`	`anywhere were able to compile http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/gpio/ ?`
`06:37.47`	`Zoup`	`where can i get arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc source/packages ?`
`06:43.02`	`*** join/#openmoko froksen (n=froksen@87.54.254.190)`
`06:49.33`	`*** join/#openmoko cbrake (n=cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net)`
`06:49.33`	`*** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu_ (n=fn-javac@Mdf72.m.pppool.de)`
`06:51.26`	`*** join/#openmoko recluze (n=hilbert@116.58.100.82)`
`06:52.05`	`*** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@193.171.42.55)`
`06:53.48`	`*** join/#openmoko Fossi (n=fossi@d192018.adsl.hansenet.de)`
`07:01.31`	`*** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@220-136-179-192.dynamic.hinet.net)`
`07:01.46`	`*** part/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@220-136-179-192.dynamic.hinet.net)`
`07:07.05`	`*** join/#openmoko fale (n=fale@89.96.108.175)`
`07:15.07`	`*** join/#openmoko Batchy (n=batchy@AVelizy-155-1-52-193.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`07:19.44`	`*** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw)`
`07:20.38`	`*** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E152B8.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`07:22.11`	`*** join/#openmoko Shlee (n=MrShlee@122-49-158-104.ip.adam.com.au)`
`07:22.57`	`*** join/#openmoko harnir (n=harnir@dhcp046-205.ds.amg.gda.pl)`
`07:23.01`	`harnir`	`hello`
`07:29.27`	`*** join/#openmoko lloyd_fedora (n=chatzill@dxb-as16619.alshamil.net.ae)`
`07:29.51`	`*** join/#openmoko cheng (n=cheng@141.76.49.20)`
`07:34.11`	`*** join/#openmoko atul (n=Atul@61.16.248.242)`
`07:37.31`	`CIA-22`	`freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r1fdbbd7fd7f2 10/fsod/src/subsystems/Time/ (Makefile.am Time.vala): Emit Minute signal with 'struct tm' values`
`07:37.32`	`CIA-22`	`freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r279de8351607 10/fsod/src/subsystems/Time/ (time-helpers.c time-helpers.vapi): add time-helpers.[c\|vapi]`
`07:38.10`	`*** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123.240.172.254)`
`07:48.35`	`*** join/#openmoko rddDavid51 (n=roudoudo@82.224.8.235)`
`07:49.49`	`*** join/#openmoko El_Senator (n=El_Senat@0x4dd4371c.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`07:50.13`	`*** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw)`
`07:54.36`	`*** join/#openmoko ekot1 (n=ekot@77.50.36.0)`
`07:55.07`	`*** part/#openmoko ekot1 (n=ekot@77.50.36.0)`
`08:04.32`	`*** part/#openmoko Zoup (n=Zoup@78.110.121.1)`
`08:05.26`	`*** join/#openmoko pazante (n=patrik@user113.77-105-224.netatonce.net)`
`08:08.48`	`*** join/#openmoko eliasp (n=quassel@HSI-KBW-085-216-068-107.hsi.kabelbw.de)`
`08:09.53`	`*** join/#openmoko mrmoku (n=mok@ppp-88-217-93-92.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`08:13.54`	`*** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au)`
`08:19.05`	`*** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@84-74-82-151.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`08:19.09`	`*** join/#openmoko SabotageAndi (n=andreas@85-127-81-53.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)`
`08:24.59`	`*** join/#openmoko flat (n=bkaplan@c-98-210-154-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`08:25.06`	`*** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw)`
`08:26.46`	`*** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@85.181.167.105)`
`08:30.59`	`*** join/#openmoko froksen (n=froksen@87.54.254.190)`
`08:37.10`	`Shlee`	`Anyone know if its possible to backup sms's on the Qtopia 4.3 release and import them into a fresh 2008.9 install?`
`08:37.57`	`*** join/#openmoko balrog-k1n (n=balrog@clo251.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)`
`08:39.21`	`*** join/#openmoko two3four (n=erik@c83-251-40-108.bredband.comhem.se)`
`08:42.33`	`*** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de)`
`08:42.35`	`*** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de)`
`08:43.38`	`*** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw)`
`08:44.23`	`malik1972`	`Shlee: there is an qtmail/sms folder or something like that, you may try to copy it over`
`08:45.24`	`malik1972`	`Shlee: but i guess it will not work as a sql database is behind all that stuff`
`08:46.16`	`*** join/#openmoko Proton23 (n=proton@p57BA5DD4.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`08:50.10`	`*** join/#openmoko sicu (n=si_u@cm-84.208.99.25.getinternet.no)`
`08:52.34`	`*** join/#openmoko sakkara (n=sakkara@d83-187-185-42.cust.tele2.at)`
`08:53.13`	`sakkara`	`good morning =)`
`08:53.14`	`*** join/#openmoko marcels (n=marcel@mstoop.xs4all.nl)`
`08:56.16`	`*** join/#openmoko dracozna (i=thomas@217.121.150.144)`
`09:04.28`	`*** join/#openmoko HauDyr (n=kim@knet-gip124.prod.bolignet.dk)`
`09:04.53`	`*** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@90-227-33-55-no42.tbcn.telia.com)`
`09:04.55`	`*** join/#openmoko NineX (i=ninex@NineX.eu.org)`
`09:06.41`	`*** join/#openmoko Flyser__ (n=flyser@145.254.176.71)`
`09:09.47`	`*** join/#openmoko jucs (n=jucs@p57AE5155.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`09:17.55`	`*** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw)`
`09:19.36`	`*** join/#openmoko Blastur (n=kebab@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com)`
`09:19.40`	`*** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-75-29-146.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`09:20.51`	`*** join/#openmoko surf2me (n=surfer@unixboard/users/surf2me)`
`09:30.24`	`*** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host78-55-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`09:31.41`	`*** join/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@91.89.242.202)`
`09:31.44`	`*** join/#openmoko El_Senator (n=El_Senat@0x4dd4371c.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`09:32.39`	`*** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw)`
`09:35.40`	`*** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`09:40.10`	`*** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at)`
`09:40.49`	`*** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=user@61.16.248.242)`
`09:43.27`	`*** join/#openmoko Temris (n=pawel@abqu228.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)`
`09:47.31`	`*** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@pdpc/supporter/active/bluelightning)`
`09:48.09`	`*** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@unixboard/users/neldoreth)`
`09:48.18`	`*** part/#openmoko El_Senator (n=El_Senat@0x4dd4371c.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`09:49.35`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`how do i change the screen orientation on 2008.08?`
`09:54.11`	`Temris`	`with xrandr`
`09:54.36`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`ah.`
`09:54.43`	`*** join/#openmoko chomwitt (n=chomwitt@athedsl-394397.home.otenet.gr)`
`09:54.48`	`Kamping_Kaiser`	`its a function that i actually use from '07`
`09:55.55`	`*** join/#openmoko fale (n=fale@89-96-108-175.ip12.fastwebnet.it)`
`10:00.36`	`*** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@unixboard/users/neldoreth)`
`10:01.38`	`*** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@host-84-221-254-115.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`10:02.07`	`*** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=chatzill@78-20-186-137.access.telenet.be)`
`10:05.20`	`*** join/#openmoko Sonicadvance (n=Sonic@24-116-252-18.cpe.cableone.net)`
`10:08.10`	`*** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@unixboard/users/neldoreth)`
`10:09.05`	`*** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@unixboard/users/neldoreth)`
`10:09.09`	`*** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g226200080.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`10:09.22`	`*** join/#openmoko qQQQzAZ (n=ljp@CPE-124-191-144-181.vic.bigpond.net.au)`
`10:09.28`	`*** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@p579B8F71.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`10:09.46`	`*** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-213-92.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)`
`10:10.01`	`*** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@unixboard/users/neldoreth)`
`10:14.54`	`*** join/#openmoko El_Senator (n=El_Senat@77.212.55.28)`
`10:15.02`	`*** join/#openmoko ken (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-227-82.customer.ch.netstream.com)`
`10:16.09`	`*** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@unixboard/users/neldoreth)`
`10:16.57`	`*** join/#openmoko bumbl (n=bumbl@91-113-57-82.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`10:17.03`	`*** join/#openmoko fale (n=fale@89-96-108-175.ip12.fastwebnet.it)`
`10:18.25`	`*** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@91-113-121-146.adsl.highway.telekom.at)`
`10:18.34`	`*** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-178-192-170.sa.bigpond.net.au)`
`10:23.30`	`*** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@unixboard/users/neldoreth)`
`10:23.59`	`*** join/#openmoko mac2k (n=mac2k@ip-88-152-142-80.hsi.ish.de)`
`10:25.39`	`*** join/#openmoko rZr (i=rzr@lav35-1-82-236-136-171.fbx.proxad.net)`
`10:26.17`	`*** join/#openmoko froksen (n=froksen@87.54.254.190)`
`10:26.46`	`*** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@unixboard/users/neldoreth)`
`10:27.14`	`*** join/#openmoko Kame2 (n=manuel@port-92-196-98-215.dynamic.qsc.de)`
`10:27.47`	`*** join/#openmoko HauDyr (n=kim@knet-gip124.prod.bolignet.dk)`
`10:28.22`	`*** join/#openmoko fale (n=fale@89.96.108.175)`
`10:28.28`	`Gnutoo`	`hello, i've upgraded to 2008.9 and i can't install wesnoth: when i install libsdl I have: * Package libsdl-1.2-0 md5sum mismatch. Either the opkg or the package index are corrupt. Try 'opkg update'.`
`10:28.34`	`Gnutoo`	`what should i do`
`10:28.51`	`Gnutoo`	`and it's a libsdl that I compiled`
`10:29.52`	`*** join/#openmoko Openfree (n=df@58.33.108.2)`
`10:29.56`	`dolf1074`	`try to give your own compiled libsdl a higher revision number. Likely opkg is testing your package against the md5 of the package with the same revision on the server`
`10:30.30`	`Zorkman_`	`Gnutoo: on the ML somebody said to opkg -force-downgrade libboost-iostreams1.33.1_1.33.1-r1_armv4t.ipk`
`10:30.42`	`Zorkman_`	`he used ipk from used ipk from`
`10:30.42`	`Zorkman_`	`http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22124&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a`
`10:30.59`	`Gnutoo`	`dolf1074, ok thanks`
`10:31.17`	`Gnutoo`	`Zorkman_, yes i know that...but the problem is different here`
`10:31.40`	`Zorkman_`	`ok`
`10:31.41`	`Gnutoo`	`dolf1074, how do i do that without recompiling?`
`10:32.11`	`Gnutoo`	`Zorkman_, just renaming it will work?`
`10:32.23`	`dolf1074`	`don't know`
`10:32.37`	`Zorkman`	`Gnutoo: don't know, haven't tried it myself`
`10:32.52`	`Gnutoo`	`Zorkman, ok`
`10:35.51`	`*** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@236-102.dsl.iskon.hr)`
`10:42.00`	`*** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-80-173.dsl.scarlet.be)`
`10:45.02`	`*** join/#openmoko cnwdup (n=harlekin@hnvr-4dbd7f6c.pool.einsundeins.de)`
`10:45.47`	`*** join/#openmoko alfatangoxt (n=michele@82.49.161.137)`
`10:47.31`	`*** join/#openmoko mr_nice (n=nice@91-65-152-238-dynip.superkabel.de)`
`10:48.27`	`*** join/#openmoko sevenhundred (n=sevenhun@c-175be455.023-215-756d651.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`10:50.08`	`*** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl)`
`10:50.27`	`*** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@e181092174.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`10:51.47`	`*** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net)`
`10:52.48`	`Gnutoo`	`I've also opkg: Invalid tar header checksum ...can I just ignore it?`
`10:56.17`	`cga`	`hi all`
`10:56.20`	`cga`	`Zorkman: !!!`
`10:56.33`	`Zorkman`	`llo cga!`
`10:56.49`	`*** join/#openmoko sledgeas (n=sledge@unibz.it)`
`10:56.52`	`cga`	`2008.9 lose /etc/resolv.conf all the time. how can i solve this?`
`10:56.52`	`sledgeas`	`hello`
`10:58.21`	`sledgeas`	`tangogps question: is there a way i could store .osm files selectively exported from openstreetmap.org in FR to get around?`
`10:58.26`	`dolf1074`	`cga: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking, under the /etc/resolv.conf explanation`
`10:58.29`	`cga`	`and 2008.9 doesn't show the illume config tool in the top panel`
`10:58.35`	`cga`	`ok dolf1074 thanks`
`10:58.39`	`Zorkman`	`cga: i'm populating my SD card at the moment, i'll see if I have the same error`
`10:58.48`	`cga`	`ok`
`10:58.54`	`sledgeas`	`found it http://n2.nabble.com/How-to-create-offline-maps--td722864.html`
`11:01.40`	`cga`	`what's the name for the illume config tool in opkg???`
`11:02.18`	`Openfree`	`question about OE, can i search some *.bb recipe file by keyword, or description`
`11:02.38`	`Zorkman`	`i'm using a new 8GB sandisk SD card and I always get a kernel panic when booting, anybody know what to do`
`11:03.02`	`*** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD43D15.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`11:03.08`	`Zorkman`	`cga: there is illume-config-illume to get the spanner back`
`11:03.19`	`Openfree`	`Zorkman, you may post the log, so people can help`
`11:03.37`	`cga`	`Zorkman: cool thanks. i'm confused between packages with similar names`
`11:03.46`	`Temris`	`cga, illume-config`
`11:03.54`	`Zorkman`	`Openfree: how to post a log when i can't boot?`
`11:04.11`	`Zorkman`	`Temris, cga: if i'm not mistaking illume-config only gives the querty button`
`11:04.23`	`Zorkman`	`Temris, cga: illume-config-illume is needed fot the spanner`
`11:04.45`	`Temris`	`on 2008.9 it gave me also configuration`
`11:05.06`	`Zorkman`	`aha, only have experience with 2008.8`
`11:05.08`	`Openfree`	`Zorkman, can u route out the kernel printk log to serial console using debug board?`
`11:05.09`	`cga`	`ah`
`11:05.45`	`Zorkman`	`Openfree: don't have debugboard..`
`11:06.04`	`*** join/#openmoko Fl4v3R_ (n=Fl4v3R_@91.9.211.250)`
`11:06.13`	`Fl4v3R_`	`willst du in meine bande .?! wenn ja dann antworte mit "ja" & wenn nicht bitte mit "nein" antworten .!°`
`11:06.29`	`bipak`	`rofl`
`11:06.34`	`Fl4v3R_`	`bitte bei Fl4v3R melden^^`
`11:06.41`	`Fl4v3R_`	`=D`
`11:07.18`	`cga`	`thanks Zorkman Temris. now i have the spanner and the keyboard`
`11:07.39`	`*** part/#openmoko Fl4v3R_ (n=Fl4v3R_@91.9.211.250)`
`11:08.41`	`*** join/#openmoko jrei (n=jrei@ip-77-25-203-39.web.vodafone.de)`
`11:08.48`	`Openfree`	`Zorkman, alternative way is just dump to the screen, set proper kernal parameter, "quiet=0 loglevel=9"`
`11:09.57`	`jrei`	`hi, is the fdom image broken? checksum is same, but there are problems with extrakting some dir since there parent folders do not exist`
`11:10.41`	`*** join/#openmoko Kraften (n=johan@130.225.22.254)`
`11:11.03`	`Zorkman`	`Openfree: I don't know how to do that, i will try to google it, but first i'm going to eat`
`11:11.43`	`Openfree`	`jrei, which version do u use, i have no problem with 0813`
`11:11.46`	`*** join/#openmoko yabo (n=yaboroo@212251131010.customer.cdi.no)`
`11:12.07`	`jrei`	`Openfree: 14-sep-2008 11:33 81M`
`11:12.07`	`Openfree`	`Zorkman, it's in u-boot env`
`11:12.32`	`Gnutoo`	`i can't install the new wesnoth...on om2008.9.i think i'll build it against om2008.9`
`11:12.36`	`Gnutoo`	`it will be easier`
`11:13.46`	`jrei`	`Openfree: can you tell me if /usr/lib/terminfo is a link oder a dir`
`11:13.50`	`*** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182049070.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`11:14.47`	`Openfree`	`jrei, sorry, i'm wrong, i have used the jffs2 image , not the tarball`
`11:15.12`	`jrei`	`Openfree: k, thanks`
`11:19.03`	`Openfree`	`jrei, i've tried untar the ball in my host computer, and exactly as u met, usr/lib/terminfo link to ../share/terminfo`
`11:19.31`	`Openfree`	`some err, like "tar: var/run/utmp: Cannot open: No such file or directory"`
`11:19.35`	`bumbl`	`Zorkman: known bug`
`11:19.58`	`bumbl`	`the partition table of your sdcard is corrupted`
`11:20.09`	`bumbl`	`try to boot from flash`
`11:20.30`	`jrei`	`Openfree: there are some brocken links in the tar ball`
`11:21.09`	`jrei`	`Openfree: i guess they belong to a different user, when the tar was created`
`11:21.24`	`Openfree`	`<bumbl>, is that fixed?`
`11:22.23`	`jrei`	`maybe its not that pathfixed as it was named afterall ^^`
`11:22.55`	`bumbl`	`i don't think so`
`11:25.58`	`*** join/#openmoko t0h (i=tommi@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-fe0cdf00-1.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`11:26.14`	`*** join/#openmoko Sonicadvance (n=Sonic@24-116-252-18.cpe.cableone.net)`
`11:26.21`	`*** join/#openmoko tomer (i=3e5a7b05@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7203d0a7be59a1ee)`
`11:31.14`	`*** join/#openmoko zogg_ (n=zogg@78-62-16-160.static.zebra.lt)`
`11:35.12`	`*** join/#openmoko Psi (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz)`
`11:42.55`	`*** join/#openmoko widrone (n=drone@unaffiliated/widrone)`
`11:45.46`	`*** join/#openmoko datenmaulwurf (n=datenmau@e178183064.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`11:46.01`	`*** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@212.98.171.14)`
`11:48.59`	`*** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009017203.user.veloxzone.com.br)`
`11:52.35`	`*** join/#openmoko lloyd_fedora (n=chatzill@dxb-as16619.alshamil.net.ae)`
`11:53.21`	`*** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-75-29-146.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`11:53.38`	`*** join/#openmoko admiral0 (n=admiral0@151.57.148.199)`
`11:54.07`	`*** join/#openmoko TeringTu1y (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl)`
`11:54.21`	`*** join/#openmoko fsteinel (n=fsteinel@fedora/fsteinel)`
`11:54.59`	`*** join/#openmoko fifafrazer (n=as@3e6b395d.rev.stofanet.dk)`
`11:55.27`	`*** join/#openmoko e-Flex (n=e@90-224-118-96-no111.tbcn.telia.com)`
`11:55.30`	`*** join/#openmoko Zilla (n=Zilla@cc479555-b.hnglo1.ov.home.nl)`
`11:56.24`	`*** join/#openmoko dns53 (n=dns@ppp246-215.static.internode.on.net)`
`11:56.41`	`*** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host81-151-110-187.range81-151.btcentralplus.com)`
`11:59.39`	`*** join/#openmoko hanez (n=hanez@c227155.adsl.hansenet.de)`
`11:59.42`	`*** join/#openmoko TeringTu2y (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl)`
`11:59.45`	`*** join/#openmoko matholio (n=matt@124-170-235-103.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`12:09.47`	`*** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl)`
`12:14.43`	`*** join/#openmoko Kt_ (n=Kirsat@adsl-232-4-192.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`12:22.20`	`*** join/#openmoko jopk (n=chatzill@p5B16690A.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`12:23.36`	`cga`	`mmmm`
`12:23.45`	`cga`	`why does opkg autoremove fail?`
`12:27.24`	`*** join/#openmoko dolf1074_ (n=chatzill@78-20-186-137.access.telenet.be)`
`12:30.37`	`*** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@c-d364e455.04-302-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`12:30.40`	`cga`	`how do i set the illume keyboard to default and remove qtopia keyboard in 2008.9???? qtopia kdb sucks`
`12:31.02`	`*** join/#openmoko nielsle (n=nielsle@1385163737.dhcp.dbnet.dk)`
`12:31.21`	`*** join/#openmoko honza_ (n=Elenril@abak-ujezd.abak.cz)`
`12:31.22`	`jrei`	`cga: install illume-config and restart`
`12:32.00`	`*** join/#openmoko nielsle (n=nielsle@1385163737.dhcp.dbnet.dk)`
`12:32.18`	`cga`	`jrei: done already. but after that qtopia it's still there and it's the default kbd`
`12:32.49`	`jrei`	`hm, on my system it changed after the reboot`
`12:33.18`	`*** join/#openmoko Baird (n=root@203.14.156.149)`
`12:34.02`	`nielsle`	`I just flashed FSO milstone 3. Is it correct that the only opkg configuration file that I need is th following? http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-testing/conf/local.conf (I am not afraid of new packages breaking th system)`
`12:34.39`	`cga`	`jrei: reinstalling with -force-reinstall and rebooting. let's see if it works`
`12:34.57`	`*** join/#openmoko dns_ (n=dns@ppp246-215.static.internode.on.net)`
`12:35.20`	`jrei`	`cga: i just used the grafikal installer on the freerunner`
`12:35.39`	`*** join/#openmoko cnwdup (n=harlekin@hnvr-4dbd7f6c.pool.einsundeins.de)`
`12:36.00`	`cga`	`jrei: it's your choice.... i prefere to ssh and use the terminal`
`12:36.13`	`*** part/#openmoko Baird (n=root@203.14.156.149)`
`12:36.48`	`jrei`	`who doesn't ;)`
`12:37.09`	`*** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.167.88.19)`
`12:37.15`	`cga`	`you apparently :P`
`12:37.55`	`jrei`	`:-P`
`12:38.13`	`*** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.78.178.63)`
`12:39.07`	`jrei`	`does anyone know a howto build a tar from these jffs2 files, the fdom tar is broken`
`12:39.41`	`max_posedon`	`jrei, It isn't broken`
`12:39.44`	`dns_`	`give me a sec, i'll find it`
`12:39.49`	`max_posedon`	`just download version, from mirror`
`12:39.56`	`max_posedon`	`not from main link.`
`12:40.15`	`cga`	`jrei: ok now it works`
`12:40.27`	`jrei`	`max_posedon: can you point me to a proper tar?`
`12:40.39`	`jrei`	`cga: d`
`12:40.45`	`cga`	`?_?`
`12:40.48`	`max_posedon`	`http://openmoko.truebox.co.uk/mirror/compartida.net/Fat_and_Dirty_OM.200808-updates.20080913.rootfs.tar.gz`
`12:41.01`	`jrei`	`cga: thumbsup`
`12:41.06`	`cga`	`ok =)`
`12:41.07`	`jrei`	`max_posedon: thanks`
`12:41.39`	`cga`	`jrei: i use weecaht-curses in a terminal , i can't see emoticons`
`12:41.40`	`dns_`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image and follow: Mount on loopback device`
`12:42.33`	`*** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.78.178.63)`
`12:44.37`	`*** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@236-102.dsl.iskon.hr)`
`12:45.22`	`*** part/#openmoko sledgeas (n=sledge@unibz.it)`
`12:47.20`	`*** join/#openmoko LionKMP (n=lion@catv-89-133-185-26.catv.broadband.hu)`
`12:47.45`	`LionKMP`	`is there a ":" on the Terminal keyboard?`
`12:48.07`	`max_posedon`	`LionKMP, shift+;`
`12:48.45`	`LionKMP`	`:-) thanks`
`12:49.06`	`*** join/#openmoko Jamiro007 (n=javier_g@81.210.231.255)`
`12:49.29`	`*** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-16-155.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`12:49.40`	`*** join/#openmoko morphis (n=morphis@p54898943.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`12:54.49`	`*** join/#openmoko aliases123 (n=alias@unaffiliated/aliases123)`
`13:01.57`	`jrei`	`max_posedon: hm, the paths of that tar are wrong, and /usr/lib/terminfo and /tmp are empty files. Or i am still making a mistake`
`13:02.52`	`max_posedon`	`yes, path are wrong, as I remember, all files putted inside /var/tmp`
`13:02.52`	`*** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.18.198.85)`
`13:02.59`	`max_posedon`	`you just need move them`
`13:03.22`	`max_posedon`	`(cd /vat/tmp; ls -> you will see root folder)`
`13:03.32`	`jrei`	`i know`
`13:03.53`	`jrei`	`but there are problems untaring var/tmp/lost&found ...`
`13:04.37`	`max_posedon`	`I haven't this problem, to wish fs are you trying untar?`
`13:04.58`	`jrei`	`ext2`
`13:05.20`	`max_posedon`	`you can open tar, just with mc (for example) and copy only specified folders.`
`13:06.37`	`*** join/#openmoko MrShleee (n=MrShlee@122-49-158-104.ip.adam.com.au)`
`13:07.13`	`jrei`	`now i am getting`
`13:07.13`	`jrei`	`var/tmp/root/media/realroot/`
`13:07.13`	`jrei`	`tar: var/tmp/root: unplausibel alter Zeitstempel 1970-01-01 01:00:00`
`13:07.45`	`*** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl)`
`13:08.05`	`jrei`	`why is the media dir included???`
`13:08.25`	`max_posedon`	`because hal use this directory for mounting`
`13:08.47`	`jrei`	`with all its subdirs?`
`13:09.51`	`max_posedon`	`I don't know, may be, I didn't think about it, I just untar to microsd, move folders, and it works.`
`13:10.26`	`*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh)`
`13:10.38`	`jrei`	`i'd like to, but tar is complaining.`
`13:12.03`	`*** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.78.178.63)`
`13:13.55`	`LionKMP`	`keyboard keeps on resetting to the old one, after I had the cool keyboard from "illume-config". How to get that back without reboot?`
`13:14.29`	`LionKMP`	`e.g. I installed something, and keyboard in my terminal was reset to old ASU keyboard. (happened 3 times today)`
`13:14.46`	`LionKMP`	`then I reboot to get back the cool full keyboard. Any faster way than reboot?`
`13:17.09`	`*** join/#openmoko Raigedas (n=OpenSour@hst-241-40.splius.lt)`
`13:17.28`	`Raigedas`	`how to open terminal in debian/fso?`
`13:18.33`	`*** join/#openmoko reinouts (n=reinout@s559355fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl)`
`13:19.01`	`dns53`	`LionKMP switching keyboards does not dissable the qtopia one`
`13:19.53`	`LionKMP`	`dns53: can I get back the "switched one" if qtopia overtakes? (currently I always reboot to get it back)`
`13:21.46`	`dns53`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Keyboard_Debate Short answer: Add the line export QTOPIA_NO_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD=1 into the file /etc/X11/Xsession.d/89qtopia.`
`13:22.21`	`*** join/#openmoko caratorn (n=aratorn@tui75-3-88-168-237-15.fbx.proxad.net)`
`13:22.52`	`LionKMP`	`oh, yes, Iost that by flashing 2008.9 yesterday! thanks for reminding!`
`13:23.04`	`LionKMP`	`I try!`
`13:23.17`	`LionKMP`	`s/Iost/I lost/`
`13:25.16`	`*** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@p5B148B30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`13:25.58`	`caratorn`	`Hello, does anyone know how to change the keyboard translation table on the freerunner?`
`13:26.28`	`*** join/#openmoko jopk (n=chatzill@p5B16690A.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`13:27.24`	`LionKMP`	`translation?`
`13:27.33`	`dns53`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Keyboard_Debate has some notes`
`13:27.37`	`*** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e181173068.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`13:27.42`	`LionKMP`	`hehe, the ultimate answer`
`13:28.59`	`caratorn`	`I'm trying to get the latin1 codes using another input method`
`13:29.26`	`MrShleee`	`Anyone know how much data is stored on the SD memorycard? Id like to flash from Qtopia to 2008.9 and keep my SMSs`
`13:33.17`	`Zorkman`	`are FSO feeds already up again?`
`13:33.27`	`Zorkman`	`heard a while ago that bearstech feeds didn't work anymore`
`13:36.00`	`LionKMP`	`20070606, is there no newer Minimo?`
`13:36.24`	`LionKMP`	`seems mozilla renamed the project to Fennec and does not provide Om builds?`
`13:36.35`	`LionKMP`	`MrShleee: print them :)`
`13:41.01`	`tuqs`	`i did a mistake while flashing. unfortunately i tried flashing the uImage into the uboot section due to an typo. now every try to flash the device aborts with: No such Alternate Setting: "...". How to fix that? :S`
`13:41.46`	`Zorkman`	`tuqs: boot into NOR and flash uboot and everything else?`
`13:42.30`	`Zorkman`	`(boot into nor by holding aux and pressing power)`
`13:42.39`	`LionKMP`	`and next time you could try NeoTool to avoid typos in commands :(`
`13:43.16`	`tuqs`	`okay, thanks`
`13:43.23`	`Zorkman`	`why doesn't anyone make an ipk for duke 3d?`
`13:43.41`	`dns53`	`someone has`
`13:43.54`	`Zorkman`	`do you know where it is?`
`13:44.07`	`dns53`	`the data files are still copywritten the source is gpl`
`13:46.48`	`Zorkman`	`I can't find libsdl-1.2-0_1.2.9-r5_armv4t.opk`
`13:46.48`	`Zorkman`	`libsdl-mixer-1.2-0_1.2.6-r2_armv4t.opk`
`13:46.48`	`Zorkman`	`libsdl-ttf_2.0.3-r0_armv4t.opk`
`13:46.55`	`Zorkman`	`( i use the fso testing feeds)`
`13:47.13`	`Zorkman`	`i'll try to search some other feeds`
`13:48.25`	`Zorkman`	`the 2008.8 feeds seem to have them`
`13:49.21`	`dns53`	`opkg install -nodeps`
`13:49.56`	`Zorkman`	`opkg install http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8/armv4t/libsdl-mixer-1.2-0_1.2.6-r2_armv4t.opk gives an md5 error`
`13:50.04`	`dns53`	`the different versions don't seem to matter if you have the right version`
`13:50.33`	`Zorkman`	`ah, thanks`
`13:53.57`	`*** join/#openmoko NineX (i=ninex@gentoo.netzone.kom.pl)`
`13:53.57`	`*** join/#openmoko akus (n=akus@host66-174-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`14:00.07`	`*** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5e98b.pool.einsundeins.de)`
`14:01.23`	*** join/#openmoko OdyX` (n=OdyX@23-195.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch)
`14:02.19`	`*** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu_ (n=fn-javac@U5feb.u.pppool.de)`
`14:04.13`	`*** join/#openmoko swc\|666 (n=swc\|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821)`
`14:08.17`	`*** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g226200080.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`14:09.01`	`Kensan`	`Hi there`
`14:09.09`	`LionKMP`	`is there a volume control?`
`14:09.11`	`LionKMP`	`hi`
`14:09.21`	`Kensan`	`What's the easiest way to temporarily add/change boot parameters in uboot?`
`14:09.23`	`leinir`	`There's something like 40 or so ;)`
`14:09.31`	`LionKMP`	`(other than alsamixer, a graphical one maybe)`
`14:09.52`	`leinir`	`qalsamixer :)`
`14:10.26`	`*** join/#openmoko batti (n=batti@p5B14B9B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`14:11.20`	`LionKMP`	`not in om 2008.8 :(`
`14:11.38`	`LionKMP`	`.9`
`14:12.38`	`*** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=matic@193.95.237.77)`
`14:13.08`	`jrei`	`is there a way to import contacts from somewhere`
`14:13.20`	`LionKMP`	`jrei: yes! vcf:`
`14:13.27`	`jrei`	`jey :)`
`14:13.37`	`LionKMP`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Import_Vcf_Contacts`
`14:17.27`	`*** join/#openmoko j_ack_ (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5e3e6.pool.einsundeins.de)`
`14:19.31`	`MrShleee`	`Recommend the 2008.9 release over Qtopia? or is more work needed before it's a stable phone?`
`14:19.56`	`LionKMP`	`a lot more imho (but I am just a beginner user)`
`14:20.19`	`Tm_T`	`use both and find out?`
`14:21.08`	`MrShleee`	`I'm flashing as we speak, just looking for the public opinion.`
`14:21.35`	`Tm_T`	`MrShleee: I wouldn't count on public opinion much`
`14:22.23`	`fletch`	`hi, how can i add a wallpaper to the om2008 theme?`
`14:24.27`	`MrShleee`	`Thee of little faith`
`14:25.50`	`ieatlint`	`faith is overrated`
`14:26.02`	`*** join/#openmoko zogg_ (n=zogg@78-62-16-160.static.zebra.lt)`
`14:26.07`	`*** join/#openmoko mrmoku (n=mok@ppp-88-217-56-239.dynamic.mnet-online.de)`
`14:26.14`	`ieatlint`	`just like science`
`14:27.39`	`ieatlint`	`it's like gravity, it's just a theory`
`14:28.31`	`slaxxin`	`but its an working therory`
`14:28.58`	`ieatlint`	`clearly you haven't read the article on "intelligent falling"`
`14:29.50`	`ieatlint`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_falling (if it's on wikipedia, it HAS to be true)`
`14:32.01`	`*** join/#openmoko michelecs (n=michelec@82.85.33.53)`
`14:35.51`	`*** join/#openmoko mm (n=mm@69-196-131-178.dsl.teksavvy.com)`
`14:38.33`	`*** join/#openmoko SabotageAndi (n=andreas@85-127-81-53.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)`
`14:39.47`	`mm`	`#openmoko-cdevel`
`14:41.04`	`*** join/#openmoko jopk (n=chatzill@p5B16690A.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`14:42.16`	`*** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net)`
`14:42.57`	`*** join/#openmoko mm (n=mm@69-196-131-178.dsl.teksavvy.com)`
`14:45.50`	`*** join/#openmoko ayeuu (n=ayeuu@tss37-1-82-228-161-185.fbx.proxad.net)`
`14:48.01`	`*** join/#openmoko mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de)`
`14:48.47`	`Zorkman`	`when i type "apm" in the terminal of FSO it returns nothing (just a blank line)`
`14:48.53`	`Zorkman`	`is there a different command in FSO?`
`14:50.28`	`mm`	`When I try the standard "ssh root@192.168.0.202" I get "Connection refused". Why?`
`14:52.10`	`viq`	`mm: did you set up networking with FR?`
`14:52.37`	`LionKMP`	`ssh -l root IP`
`14:53.13`	`ieatlint`	`user@host is proper too, lion`
`14:53.14`	`LionKMP`	`hm, ignore, it works with @ too. Cool :)`
`14:53.49`	`mm`	`viq: I set up networking by hand, using "modprobe usbnet" and ifconfig`
`14:54.12`	`LionKMP`	`I needed to disable mandrvia firewall to get this working (however some rule changes should be enough)`
`14:54.13`	`viq`	`mm: and what's the address of you "normal" network?`
`14:54.24`	`mm`	`viq: Or are you asking if I set up networking on the FR itself?`
`14:54.45`	`LionKMP`	`FR has usb network enabled by default if you use om 2008.8.`
`14:55.24`	`mm`	`viq: There is no normal network. Just my asus eee and the FR`
`14:55.43`	`viq`	`eee is not connected to any network?`
`14:56.02`	`ieatlint`	`mm, "ping 192.168.0.202" ... if you don't get replies, then the usb networking between the phone and your computer is not setup`
`14:56.18`	`*** join/#openmoko bricode (n=bricode@200.122.185.24)`
`14:56.21`	`ieatlint`	`if it does reply, but you still can't ssh, then the sshd isn't running on the phone`
`14:56.28`	`*** join/#openmoko froksen (n=froksen@87.54.254.190)`
`14:57.11`	`mm`	`ping 192.168.0.200 and ping 192.168.0.202 both work`
`14:57.54`	`mm`	`On the FR, I am using qtopia. How do I find if sshd is running?`
`14:58.07`	`ieatlint`	`"pgrep -l dropbear"`
`14:59.30`	`ieatlint`	`so either sshd isn't running, or you setup your networking very wrongly :P`
`15:02.44`	`mm`	`pgrep -l dropbear returns nothing`
`15:03.36`	`ieatlint`	`ok, then that's the problem`
`15:03.37`	`*** join/#openmoko Flyser_ (n=flyser@212.144.71.158)`
`15:03.53`	`ieatlint`	`"/etc/init.d/dropbear start" should start it`
`15:03.55`	`*** join/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@91.89.242.202)`
`15:06.00`	`mm`	`Starting Dropbear SSH server: Segmentation Fault`
`15:06.15`	`ieatlint`	`yeah, you have an issue :P`
`15:06.47`	`ieatlint`	`if it's not an issue for you to re-flash the phone, i would recommend that... it'd be the simplest solution`
`15:06.57`	`spydon`	`Does that snake game with the accelerometers work yet?`
`15:07.17`	`mm`	`Which distribution might I try?`
`15:07.22`	`*** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@85.181.175.219)`
`15:07.36`	`ieatlint`	`you should be able to reinstall qtopia`
`15:07.57`	`ieatlint`	`spydon, "work" is such a relative phrase`
`15:08.05`	`ieatlint`	`under microsofts use of the word, sure`
`15:08.22`	`spydon`	`ieatlint, ^^. where can I get it then? :P`
`15:08.25`	`mm`	`I don't get why reinstalling would help - its not that I have done anything much since installing - or is installing flakey?`
`15:09.24`	`ieatlint`	`http://tehinterweb.com/snake is the beta version, not changed since yesterday morning (that's the bin, .c/.h for source)`
`15:10.57`	`*** join/#openmoko Flyser (n=flyser@212.144.71.158)`
`15:11.07`	`slaxxin`	`mm which one have u tried?`
`15:11.27`	`ieatlint`	`oh, and it requires libecore-config, and the package is in the fso trees and i'm told installs fine on 2008.9`
`15:11.28`	`slaxxin`	`have u tried fdom?`
`15:12.13`	`mm`	`I have tried networking only on Qtopia.`
`15:12.51`	`*** join/#openmoko Kt_ (n=Kirsat@adsl-176-42-71.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`15:12.53`	`*** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.78.178.63)`
`15:13.09`	`*** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@pornpipe.stroller.uk.eu.org)`
`15:13.44`	`spydon`	`hmm weird now opkg cant get a lock and its not packagekitd...`
`15:15.16`	`spydon`	`ill just reboot it`
`15:16.34`	`*** join/#openmoko reckey (n=reckey@ti400720a081-2331.bb.online.no)`
`15:17.22`	`*** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD43D15.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`15:17.28`	`*** join/#openmoko uhsf (n=uhsf@modemcable009.150-57-74.mc.videotron.ca)`
`15:21.14`	`ceda`	`have anyone of you seen a RSS reader that is stable on the OpenMoko?`
`15:21.40`	`ceda`	`I'd like to read my news on the way to/from work and tried using minimo and google's reader for the iPhone`
`15:21.56`	`ceda`	`that worked kind of OK but minimo still isn't very reliable`
`15:22.15`	`ceda`	`I basically spent 10 minutes struggling with gprs and minimo, and 5 minutes with actual reading :P`
`15:23.22`	`ieatlint`	`so go look for a gtk rss reader that fits well onto the freerunner screen, or write one :P`
`15:25.45`	`*** join/#openmoko ArteK (i=root@artekw.cerbero.pl)`
`15:26.19`	`*** join/#openmoko Tuju (n=tuju@178.156.190.90.sta.estpak.ee)`
`15:26.34`	`Tuju`	`what 'hold down AUX' means?`
`15:26.43`	`spydon`	`totally awesome ietlint!`
`15:27.04`	`spydon`	`are you the author?`
`15:27.08`	`ieatlint`	`Tuju, the button on the top left of the phone is the AUX button`
`15:27.14`	`ieatlint`	`spydon, yes`
`15:27.29`	`Tuju`	`ieatlint: ah, didn't even notice that there is more than one button :)`
`15:27.32`	`ieatlint`	`i have a lot of expansion planned for it`
`15:27.32`	`Tuju`	`ieatlint: thanks`
`15:27.51`	`ieatlint`	`:)`
`15:28.06`	`spydon`	`nice, will you release it in the community repos when you have expanded it?`
`15:28.27`	`ieatlint`	`probably`
`15:29.10`	`ieatlint`	`i've got a list of projects i'm working on...`
`15:31.23`	`ieatlint`	`spydon, oh, btw, an important note... to quit, simply spike the Z axis (eg, drop the phone ~3inches onto your lap)`
`15:31.32`	`ieatlint`	`creating a proper interface is on my todo list :)`
`15:32.03`	`spydon`	`hehe that was why it "crashed" when I putted it on the table ^^`
`15:32.25`	`ieatlint`	`yep... it was the easiest way to handle it without writing a proper ui`
`15:32.39`	`ieatlint`	`it will also quit if you run the snake into itself (a difficult task)`
`15:33.08`	`spydon`	`hehe yeah I tried`
`15:33.10`	`ieatlint`	`i need to adjust a lot of the things, like how much the snake grows and such, and i've the concepts laid out to implement maps`
`15:33.56`	`ieatlint`	`it will support maps based on xpm images... you make an xpm image, and can load it as a map, nothing more needed`
`15:34.26`	`spydon`	`ah so then its quite easy to make your own maps, huh?`
`15:34.35`	`*** join/#openmoko Shlee (n=MrShlee@122-49-158-104.ip.adam.com.au)`
`15:34.40`	`Shlee`	`I need a twitter client`
`15:34.47`	`ieatlint`	`it's a working concept, unimplemented`
`15:35.28`	`spydon`	`yeah`
`15:35.29`	`Shlee`	`ok, wrong channel.`
`15:37.46`	`*** join/#openmoko Temris_ (n=pawel@abrx9.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)`
`15:39.58`	`*** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@85.179.221.125)`
`15:44.04`	`yabo`	`Hello`
`15:44.08`	`yabo`	`i need some help with opkg`
`15:44.16`	`yabo`	`i am trying to use opkg update`
`15:44.29`	`yabo`	`but all im getting are "signature check failed"`
`15:44.30`	`yabo`	`s'`
`15:44.47`	`Tm_T`	`you never will get success with signatures`
`15:44.52`	`Tm_T`	`ignore those errors`
`15:45.29`	`ceda`	`oh, with the new FSO image I can play ogg files without jitter! :D`
`15:45.51`	`yabo`	`oki thanks`
`15:50.46`	`*** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117)`
`15:52.22`	`*** join/#openmoko TeringTu1y (n=maarten@195-241-125-243.ip.telfort.nl)`
`15:52.40`	`yabo`	`so im trying to install Minimo`
`15:52.49`	`*** part/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@236-102.dsl.iskon.hr)`
`15:52.50`	`yabo`	`but im missing a bunch of dependencies`
`15:53.06`	`*** join/#openmoko michelecs (n=michelec@82.85.33.53)`
`15:53.07`	`yabo`	`wiki tells me to try opkg install libfreetype6`
`15:53.19`	`yabo`	`but i got *cannot find package libfreetype6`
`15:53.21`	`yabo`	`:-S`
`15:53.30`	`yabo`	`dns is configured`
`15:56.37`	`Tuju`	`how big the rootfs is?`
`15:57.18`	`Tuju`	`which is the best image now? FSO or Qtopia?`
`15:57.53`	`TAsn`	`Tuju, haha starting wars? ;]`
`15:58.03`	`TAsn`	`i like fso better, though people may argue.`
`15:58.05`	`Tuju`	`TAsn: maybe...maybee.... :)`
`15:58.21`	`TAsn`	`is taking cover.`
`15:58.28`	`TAsn`	`I don't like qt.`
`15:58.34`	`TAsn`	`is heading to the bunker.`
`15:58.34`	`TAsn`	`;]`
`15:58.52`	`Tuju`	`let's say that I use KDE on desktop, so I probably prefer something Qt based, but also i'd prefer higher functionality as everything is so early development still.`
`15:59.13`	`mwester`	`Tuju: FSO if you are a developer; Qtopia if you want a phone.`
`15:59.18`	`TAsn`	`j/k gtg. though i must add i use fso, though i think qtopia is more mature. especially since fso is just the framework`
`15:59.25`	`mwester`	`No battles to have; facts are facts!`
`15:59.35`	`Tuju`	`mwester thanks for clear answer! :)`
`15:59.35`	`TAsn`	`mwester, I wish you were right.`
`15:59.59`	`TAsn`	`though wars are usually started without any relation to facts or reason ;]`
`16:00.15`	`TAsn`	`/join #moko-philosophy`
`16:00.15`	`TAsn`	`;]`
`16:00.26`	`*** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.175.87)`
`16:01.29`	`Tuju`	`i'm too old for wars already :-/`
`16:01.41`	`Tuju`	`make all, not wars.`
`16:02.36`	`Tuju`	`can you update both FSO and Qtopia with pkg-management in-device or is either one only firmware updated?`
`16:03.17`	`Tuju`	`still wonders the size of rootfs after 163MB downlad and still going`
`16:04.42`	`mwester`	`Tuju: FSO - yes. Qtopia - not working for various reasons at this time.`
`16:05.02`	`Tuju`	`mwester ack, I'll put FSO then.`
`16:05.32`	`ceda`	`mwester: oscillating GSM. what can be done to help you with this?`
`16:05.46`	`ceda`	`I'm on the latest testing-image now`
`16:06.00`	`mwester`	`Tuju: I'm really serious about the distinction though -- FSO is a framework, a programming API with a slapped-in GUI (zhone) to test that programming API. It's very incomplete as a phone.`
`16:06.06`	`mwester`	`Qtopia is the other way around.`
`16:06.21`	`mwester`	`ceda: FSO?`
`16:06.25`	`ceda`	`mwester: yes`
`16:06.44`	`ceda`	`off downloads.freesmartphone.org`
`16:06.51`	`Tuju`	`mwester perhaps i could put both in, FSO into card and Qtopia into internal flash.`
`16:06.55`	`ceda`	`s/off/from/`
`16:07.18`	`ceda`	`apt: your right little bot`
`16:07.23`	`mwester`	`Tuju: That's a good idea. I have multiple images on my phones, and boot into the one of interest.`
`16:08.48`	`mwester`	`ceda: If you get a log from FSO (mickey explains how to do that in his announcement email IIRC); edit the log to remove or obscure your PIN, phone numbers, and other private data, and pastebin that, that would help.`
`16:08.57`	`*** join/#openmoko rphlx (i=foobar@cpe-76-167-117-244.socal.res.rr.com)`
`16:09.16`	`Gnutoo`	`hello, i've a problem with moko makefile: http://pastebin.com/m61d219f0`
`16:09.27`	`Gnutoo`	`what should i do? is it a known problem?`
`16:11.49`	`*** join/#openmoko kirun (n=kirun@110.170.pn.adsl.brightview.com)`
`16:11.51`	`*** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.18.198.85)`
`16:13.25`	`Fradeve`	`hi all`
`16:14.44`	`Fradeve`	`I'm trying to use matchbox-window-manager with xfce4; the wiki says to remove xfwm4 and modify /usr/bin/zhone-session to start up matchbox, but when I remove xfwm4, apt removes automatically also xfce4`
`16:14.44`	`*** join/#openmoko evolux (n=evolux@g228001203.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`16:14.51`	`Fradeve`	`is there a way to avoid this?`
`16:15.36`	`ceda`	`mwester: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework/Status_Update_4#Best_way_to_hand_us_debug_logs`
`16:15.41`	`ceda`	`that way?`
`16:18.24`	`Tuju`	`dfu_upload error -62`
`16:18.41`	`*** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@BAA16c8.baa.pppool.de)`
`16:20.00`	`lindi-`	`Fradeve: how many files does xfce4 have?`
`16:21.07`	`*** join/#openmoko chomwitt (n=chomwitt@athedsl-4399532.home.otenet.gr)`
`16:22.01`	`yabo`	`hello, how can i change my wallpaper on the fr? I am using Qtopi`
`16:22.05`	`yabo`	`Qtopia*`
`16:22.49`	`lindi-`	`mwester: shouldn't all fr owners be developers? ;)`
`16:23.01`	`*** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@85-18-201-166.ip.fastwebnet.it)`
`16:23.28`	`*** join/#openmoko pwerken (n=pwerken@83.119.198.36)`
`16:23.51`	`*** join/#openmoko tdobson (n=a_lead_f@dobsad.plus.com)`
`16:26.19`	`*** join/#openmoko marcels (n=marcel@mstoop.xs4all.nl)`
`16:26.24`	`mwester`	`lindi-: ;) Yes. But after a year, even developers need to show results if they wish continued funding.`
`16:26.37`	`mwester`	`wants new toys.`
`16:27.03`	`ceda`	`mwester: http://wendt.se/software/openmoko/ticket-1024/frameworkd-080921.log`
`16:27.05`	`mwester`	`ceda: Yep - that's the wya.`
`16:27.28`	`ceda`	`mwester: I noticed two times when the UI said "No service"`
`16:27.34`	`ceda`	`during that log capture`
`16:28.43`	`yabo`	`mwester, i made a wallpaper for the fr. where do i store it so i can change make it my wallpaper from the qtopia settings-menu?`
`16:29.34`	`*** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host81-151-110-187.range81-151.btcentralplus.com)`
`16:29.40`	`mwester`	`yabo: anywhere that qtopia is set to search for images. If you have an sd card, and it's mounted on /media/card, put it there -- and then tell qtopia to rescan.`
`16:30.00`	`yabo`	`okidoki, thank you!`
`16:30.10`	`mwester`	`"S COMVIQ" ?`
`16:30.18`	`ceda`	`mwester: yes?`
`16:30.49`	`mwester`	`Is that a valid carrier name?`
`16:30.52`	`ceda`	`it's been like that all the time. Other networks looks like "vodafone SE" and "Telia SE" but Tele2 looks like that`
`16:30.56`	`yabo`	`btw mwester, does my wallpaper need to be in a specific format?`
`16:30.59`	`yabo`	`ie filetype`
`16:31.12`	`mwester`	`yabo: Dunno, you'll have to read the qtopia docs. I use jpg.`
`16:31.17`	`yabo`	`ok`
`16:31.19`	`ceda`	`mwester: it's the first network I got working with GPRS, I can place calls and send/receive SMS`
`16:31.37`	`yabo`	`how do i tell qtopia to rescan?`
`16:31.49`	`mwester`	`No problem; it clearly is working ok, it just looked very odd as a carrier name.`
`16:31.53`	`ceda`	`mwester: I can change SIM card (carrier) if you want to and redo`
`16:32.11`	`mwester`	`yabo: device menu - you'll have to poke about a bit; don't remember off the top of my head.`
`16:32.25`	`mwester`	`ceda: If you can do that, does it have the same problem?`
`16:33.01`	`Fradeve`	`lindi-: what do you want to say with "how many files does xfce4 have"?`
`16:33.14`	`lindi-`	`Fradeve: yeah, how many files are part of the xfce4 package`
`16:33.16`	`bipak`	`hi, is it possible to extract the phonenumbers from the SIM card?`
`16:33.25`	`lindi-`	`bipak: zhone does it`
`16:33.26`	`ceda`	`mwester: I'll redo with another carrier just to be sure that the problem is there with this image`
`16:33.36`	`Fradeve`	`lindi-: 12`
`16:33.36`	`lindi-`	`bipak: so yes`
`16:33.39`	`bipak`	`lindi-: ah ok`
`16:33.50`	`lindi-`	`Fradeve: ah, so it's not just empty meta package then?`
`16:33.52`	`bipak`	`so i need to install zhone on 2008.9? does that work?`
`16:34.11`	`Fradeve`	`lindi-: ahhhh wait... yeah probably it's a metapackage`
`16:34.21`	`lindi-`	`Fradeve: how can it be meta package if it has 12 files?`
`16:34.37`	`lindi-`	`bipak: i haven't yet managed to build 2008.9`
`16:34.41`	`Fradeve`	`lindi-: probably I'm wrong, let's search`
`16:34.42`	`lindi-`	`bipak: hard to comment :)`
`16:35.24`	`bipak`	`i just used the tar file`
`16:35.39`	`mwester`	`ceda: it's definitely the same problem. I didn't look at the timing yet, but the symptoms are consistent.`
`16:36.01`	`yabo`	`mwester, i think im doing it wrong.. I put bg.jpeg in /mnt/card/wallpapers and hit "Rescan documents" on Devtools. then i headed to Qtopia Settings Appearance and tried to change my wallpaper. what do you do when you change your wallpaper?`
`16:36.34`	`mwester`	`/mnt/card isn't right -- it would be /media/card`
`16:36.43`	`yabo`	`oh`
`16:37.02`	`ceda`	`mwester: ok. I'm booting now with my everyday SIM which uses another carrier`
`16:37.07`	`mwester`	`And make sure to give it a minute or two to do the scan; it searches the filesystem and updates a SQL database with the locations of the media files.`
`16:37.44`	`*** join/#openmoko leinir (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir)`
`16:38.20`	`yabo`	`oki`
`16:39.19`	`yabo`	`it didnt appear in the list`
`16:41.01`	`yabo`	`the Image viewer finds the picture though`
`16:41.31`	`ceda`	`yabo: try another format?`
`16:42.17`	`yabo`	`alrigh`
`16:42.18`	`yabo`	`t`
`16:42.20`	`ceda`	`or just .jpg (it might not look at all files, but only those with specific extensions)`
`16:42.25`	`*** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host81-151-110-187.range81-151.btcentralplus.com)`
`16:43.23`	`*** join/#openmoko RedFlash (n=RedFlash@host21-40-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`16:43.49`	`*** join/#openmoko Kt_ (n=Kirsat@adsl-176-42-223.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`16:44.46`	`ceda`	`mwester: looks like the PIN is remembered (I entered it when the phone booted up first, before I killall'ed python ...). Is that gsm0710d?`
`16:44.49`	`*** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de)`
`16:45.40`	`ceda`	`mwester: the signal strength is different with the carrier I'm using now. Guess it's using another physical end point as well`
`16:45.52`	`*** join/#openmoko RedFlash (n=RedFlash@host21-40-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`16:45.55`	`*** join/#openmoko _alcik_ (n=alcik@chello087207026137.chello.pl)`
`16:46.52`	`ceda`	`antenna tower`
`16:47.38`	`yabo`	`where is the original background-image stored?`
`16:48.02`	`*** join/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@host-125-92.lalacap.clients.pavlovmedia.com)`
`16:48.24`	`rooly`	`where would i go to submit feature requests?`
`16:48.48`	`ceda`	`mwester: last question, how long do you want the capture period to be? I've seen "No service" twice now`
`16:49.37`	`*** join/#openmoko El_Senator (n=El_Senat@0x4dd4371c.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`16:49.46`	`ceda`	`and there it went down once more`
`16:51.17`	`*** join/#openmoko TAsnn (n=tasn@93-172-236-95.bb.netvision.net.il)`
`16:51.21`	`*** join/#openmoko noaXess (n=noaXess@gw.ptr-80-238-209-47.customer.ch.netstream.com)`
`16:51.56`	`_alcik_`	`Hello everyone`
`16:52.18`	`_alcik_`	`anyone can answer some qtopia questions?`
`16:52.26`	`ceda`	`mwester: http://wendt.se/software/openmoko/ticket-1024/frameworkd-080921-second-carrier-telia.log`
`16:52.31`	`ceda`	`the second run`
`16:52.52`	`*** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5e498.pool.einsundeins.de)`
`16:54.23`	`*** join/#openmoko milo__ (n=nilsense@dslb-088-078-248-031.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`16:55.16`	`*** join/#openmoko [Rui]__ (n=Rui@81.84.168.89)`
`16:55.23`	`*** join/#openmoko cheng (n=cheng@xGagB214.WH1.TU-Dresden.De)`
`16:56.09`	`[Rui]__`	`hi`
`16:59.58`	`*** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009017203.user.veloxzone.com.br)`
`17:00.57`	`*** join/#openmoko [Rui]__ (n=Rui@81.84.168.89)`
`17:02.57`	`[Rui]__`	`hi, my connection's really unstable today`
`17:03.54`	`yabo`	`so, when im connected to my phone with ssh/usb, is there some easier way to copy files to the phone from my computer than to upload to the internet and then wget from the phone?`
`17:04.19`	`Wonka`	`yabo: scp`
`17:04.25`	`Tuju`	`my first rootfs backup failed, around 250MB phone screen went white and it rebooted.`
`17:04.43`	`[Rui]__`	`so hey, how can I know & set my current qtopia profile _NOT_ from the GUI`
`17:04.45`	`Tuju`	`second is going, if it fails too, I'm going to reflash it anyway.`
`17:04.50`	`*** join/#openmoko apapi (n=user@3ll54-1-88-168-196-60.fbx.proxad.net)`
`17:04.51`	`rooly`	`scp <file to copy> root@192.168.0.202:/path/to/file`
`17:05.39`	`[Rui]__`	`I really want to have my new rotate program turn it into silent profile when I turn it down :)`
`17:06.13`	`rooly`	`i'd like apm to turn off deep sleep mode when charging`
`17:07.50`	`*** join/#openmoko tuXXX (n=damien@86.74.35.252)`
`17:08.00`	`yabo`	`thanks Wonka`
`17:12.27`	`*** join/#openmoko bipak_ (n=bip@p57B854F2.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`17:13.21`	`*** part/#openmoko mm (n=mm@69-196-131-178.dsl.teksavvy.com)`
`17:13.53`	`mwester_`	`ceda: Thanks - same problem on that SIM too.`
`17:14.41`	`ceda`	`mwester_: your welcome, I'm glad I can help`
`17:15.36`	`*** part/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@host-125-92.lalacap.clients.pavlovmedia.com)`
`17:15.52`	`*** join/#openmoko gregdude (n=imrehg@79-78-128-67.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`17:16.10`	`*** join/#openmoko RedFlash (n=RedFlash@host21-40-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`17:18.40`	`Tuju`	`dfu_upload error -62 - it fails at 258MB.`
`17:19.04`	`Tuju`	`that's it, i'm flashing it over, backups or not.`
`17:25.09`	`*** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host234-36-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`17:28.16`	`*** join/#openmoko quickdev (n=quickdev@p5B053E74.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`17:29.07`	`*** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net)`
`17:33.37`	`Tuju`	`is it possible to write flash card over usb?`
`17:34.07`	`*** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@p579B8F71.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`17:35.01`	`*** join/#openmoko j_ack_ (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5e9be.pool.einsundeins.de)`
`17:36.17`	`TAsnn`	`http://www.neopwn.com/`
`17:36.18`	`TAsnn`	`lol ;]`
`17:38.22`	`*** join/#openmoko Flyser_ (n=flyser@212.144.71.158)`
`17:38.56`	`spydon`	`TAsnn, ownage ^^`
`17:39.24`	`TAsnn`	`spydon, aye!`
`17:39.46`	`TAsnn`	`shall i phone the office or own the network?`
`17:39.49`	`TAsnn`	`;]`
`17:39.58`	`TAsnn`	`my friend already compiled a lot of bt utils`
`17:40.10`	`Gnutoo`	`ah ok...rt73...because i wondered how they did packet injection/monitor etc... with the current firmware...`
`17:40.11`	`TAsnn`	`once i have time i will make packages out of them (he is lazy)`
`17:40.18`	`TAsnn`	`Gnutoo, hehe yeah.`
`17:40.29`	`viq`	`TAsnn: unfortunately you can only buy it.`
`17:40.36`	`TAsnn`	`viq, really?`
`17:40.48`	`viq`	`TAsnn: well, try finding a download.`
`17:40.52`	`TAsnn`	`doesn't that violate gpl?`
`17:40.52`	`*** part/#openmoko jrei (n=jrei@ip-77-25-203-39.web.vodafone.de)`
`17:41.02`	`TAsnn`	`viq, anyhow, i aint gonna use it anyway.`
`17:41.03`	`TAsnn`	`;]`
`17:41.08`	`viq`	`:P`
`17:41.51`	`yabo`	`can you watch flash video (.flv) on the freerunner?`
`17:42.01`	`spydon`	`hehe why would you need a web server on it?! :P`
`17:43.55`	`Gnutoo`	`TAsnn, it depends...if they provide a paper that permit you to order the sources on cd...it's fine...`
`17:46.29`	`*** join/#openmoko centaur5 (n=fishman@209-33-197-88.dsl.infowest.net)`
`17:47.43`	`*** join/#openmoko unlotto (n=unlotto@ip114.rev112.brygge.net)`
`17:48.14`	`ieatlint`	`Gnutoo, nope`
`17:48.57`	`ieatlint`	`for instance, i can't start selling copies of debians cds for $50 advertising it as a full os, but give you debian.org as a free place to get it`
`17:49.04`	`ieatlint`	`gpl says reasonable costs only`
`17:49.04`	`Tuju`	`qtopia kernel doesn't boot.`
`17:49.24`	`Tuju`	`Starting kernel ... -- and that's it.`
`17:49.28`	`Gnutoo`	`ieatlint, yes resonable cost...for the source...not the binaries...`
`17:50.04`	`ieatlint`	`hmm`
`17:50.31`	`*** join/#openmoko MTrevi (n=3v1n0@host234-250-static.12-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it)`
`17:50.42`	`Gnutoo`	`yabo, we have mplayer, but you could try to patch it to get glamo support to get youtube videos that aren't anymore flv(.mp4)`
`17:51.26`	`[Rui]__`	`has anyone noticed the accelerometers hanging?`
`17:51.43`	`Gnutoo`	`by the way iceweasel will be half usable and slow...`
`17:52.04`	`Gnutoo`	`i've tried firefox 3.1 on the freerunner...and there were issues with ssl:`
`17:52.53`	`Gnutoo`	`if you goes to a webpage where there is a certificate to accept the windows that imports the certificate is too small to be usable...`
`17:53.13`	`Gnutoo`	`but if you import the certificate via ssh -Y you can use it...`
`17:54.46`	`*** join/#openmoko unlotto (n=unlotto@ip114.rev112.brygge.net)`
`17:55.24`	`[Rui]__`	`I think I'm getting hangs while reading from events3`
`17:56.45`	`TAsnn`	`Gnutoo, how fast is it?`
`17:57.29`	`Gnutoo`	`TAsnn, slow to load...after you can navigate...i've tried only with one page at the same time`
`17:57.36`	`TAsnn`	`i c.`
`17:57.41`	`TAsnn`	`well i like minimo anyway ;]`
`17:57.48`	`TAsnn`	`though it also takes ages to load.`
`17:57.53`	`Gnutoo`	`minimo doesn't have ssl`
`17:57.59`	`TAsnn`	`are you sure?`
`17:58.01`	`Gnutoo`	`nor midori`
`17:58.03`	`TAsnn`	`i think you are wrong.`
`17:58.04`	`Gnutoo`	`yes`
`17:58.09`	`TAsnn`	`sec i will confirm.`
`17:58.12`	`Gnutoo`	`ok`
`17:58.24`	`TAsnn`	`since i remember i used gmail on it.`
`17:58.34`	`Gnutoo`	`there is also the openmoko-browser2 that doens't have it...`
`17:58.47`	`Gnutoo`	`but I tried inside om2008.8 not 2008.9`
`17:58.52`	`TAsnn`	`but moko broweser sucks ass ;]`
`17:59.06`	`Tuju`	`Note: dfu-util seems to consistently fail with a "-62" error on 64-bit Linux. -- right.`
`17:59.30`	`TAsnn`	`Gnutoo, any ideas for a light weight ssled page+`
`17:59.31`	`TAsnn`	`?`
`17:59.47`	`Gnutoo`	`TAsnn, what do you need to see?`
`17:59.54`	`Gnutoo`	`TAsnn, only your mail?`
`18:00.05`	`TAsn`	`Gnutoo, no, i want to check if ssl works`
`18:00.07`	`parodyoflanguage`	`Okay, I have a question. Are Google Android phones going to be open too?`
`18:00.17`	`TAsn`	`parodyoflanguage, iirc no.`
`18:00.19`	`Gnutoo`	`ah page...not package`
`18:00.27`	`TAsn`	`aye ;]`
`18:00.39`	`*** join/#openmoko hipitihop (n=denis@97.91.221.203.static.comindico.com.au)`
`18:00.40`	`Gnutoo`	`https://webmail.no-log.org/src/login.php`
`18:00.43`	`TAsn`	`too long`
`18:00.45`	`cjb`	`parodyoflanguage: "open" in that network operators can use it without a license fee, not in that consumers can run their own code on them.`
`18:00.53`	`TAsn`	`i will try paypal`
`18:01.01`	`parodyoflanguage`	`cjb: :(`
`18:01.02`	`cjb`	`(I read someting about a $100 signing fee per app or something weird. I guess it's all up to the operators.)`
`18:01.07`	`Gnutoo`	`https://webmail.no-log.org`
`18:01.24`	`parodyoflanguage`	`will openmoko support android?`
`18:01.38`	`cjb`	`sounds plausible.`
`18:01.46`	`*** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-155-247-230.range86-155.btcentralplus.com)`
`18:01.48`	`parodyoflanguage`	`Yeah.`
`18:01.50`	`viq`	`parodyoflanguage: the question should be whether android will support openmoko`
`18:01.52`	`TAsn`	`Gnutoo, well it does support ssl.`
`18:02.05`	`TAsn`	`minimo`
`18:02.09`	`Gnutoo`	`TAsn, wow...i'll try again...mabe because of certs`
`18:02.13`	`parodyoflanguage`	`viq: Well, at some point you have to succumb to the network effect.`
`18:02.34`	`viq`	`parodyoflanguage: you can't really change existing hardware to support a new operating system`
`18:02.39`	`parodyoflanguage`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Dream`
`18:02.40`	`*** join/#openmoko LionKMP (n=lion@catv-89-133-185-26.catv.broadband.hu)`
`18:02.59`	`*** join/#openmoko raynet (n=raynet@bb-81-175-213-113.dsl.phnet.fi)`
`18:03.20`	`cjb`	`parodyoflanguage: hm, I think that might be out of date`
`18:03.28`	`cjb`	`I heard that Google dropped HTC in favor of Qualcomm`
`18:03.31`	`Gnutoo`	`TAsn, wow so mabe i won't have to use firefox anymore...`
`18:03.38`	`TAsn`	`Gnutoo, ;]`
`18:04.04`	`*** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@236-102.dsl.iskon.hr)`
`18:04.07`	`parodyoflanguage`	`viq: Hmm. I didn't realize that Android was hardware specific. I don't know much about cell phone technology :)`
`18:04.20`	`*** join/#openmoko lymeca (n=lymeca@unaffiliated/lymeca)`
`18:04.23`	`viq`	`parodyoflanguage: it's an operating system, what did you expect?`
`18:04.25`	`parodyoflanguage`	`cjb: Ah.`
`18:04.47`	`lymeca`	`Okay so I want a Freerunner, and I want to buy one today. But I can't decide between 850 and 900, so I would love some advice.`
`18:04.49`	`parodyoflanguage`	`viq: A virtual machine of some kind.`
`18:05.00`	`*** join/#openmoko milosF (n=milos@92.36.168.204)`
`18:05.07`	`cjb`	`viq: huh? it runs Linux and Java. what's not portable?`
`18:05.07`	`lymeca`	`I live in the USA right now, but plan on moving to Europe over the summer, and potentially permanently a year after that.`
`18:05.19`	`TAsn`	`lymeca, ouch.`
`18:05.20`	`lymeca`	`Is there no way to have one Freerunner work in both USA and Europe?`
`18:05.23`	`TAsn`	`hard to decide`
`18:05.26`	`cjb`	`lymeca: different parts of Europe have different GSM.`
`18:05.26`	`TAsn`	`actually they both do`
`18:05.36`	`Gnutoo`	`parodyoflanguage, if you were carefull at the licences used for android...they use the apache licence with is not copyleft...that is to say a vendor can take the source and not give back(they can give you a binary with no source) ...and i bet the phones vendors won't give you the source...but you will still have the source of the linux kernel...and mabe someone could port the opnemoko stack on it`
`18:05.37`	`TAsn`	`the difference is in the country sides`
`18:05.46`	`lymeca`	`just... 850 works BETTER in USA, and 900 works BETTER in Europe?`
`18:05.51`	`TAsn`	`no`
`18:06.05`	`TAsn`	`lymeca, 850 works in the countryside in us and 900 doesn't.`
`18:06.07`	`cjb`	`Gnutoo: their reference implementation is open, though.`
`18:06.12`	`TAsn`	`and the other way around.`
`18:06.13`	`TAsn`	`iirc.`
`18:06.18`	`LionKMP`	`hm, I think I use 1800. is that possible? How to check?`
`18:06.20`	`Gnutoo`	`cjb, yes and non standard...`
`18:06.22`	`cjb`	`lymeca: you are not being specific enough. "Europe" is not homogenous.`
`18:06.30`	`viq`	`cjb: hardware platform it's compiled for?`
`18:06.34`	`cjb`	`viq: ARM`
`18:06.38`	`lymeca`	`cjb: Iceland, germany, and Netherlands`
`18:06.40`	`TAsn`	`cjb, i think all of europe uses 900`
`18:06.44`	`Gnutoo`	`as non standard i mean that they didn't use existing free software bricks`
`18:06.51`	`lymeca`	`perhaps a bit of France and England`
`18:06.57`	`TAsn`	`isn't it just north america (australia?) and japan who use 850?`
`18:06.58`	`lymeca`	`They all have 900 in them`
`18:07.09`	`cjb`	`cool, sounds like you should go with 900`
`18:07.13`	`cjb`	`850 isn't really used in the US`
`18:07.20`	`lymeca`	`But I'm in college in the US right now`
`18:07.23`	`cjb`	`as I understand it. the other two frequencies are.`
`18:07.25`	`lymeca`	`and I want it to work`
`18:07.29`	`lymeca`	`now`
`18:07.41`	`cjb`	`it would. the 850 isn't very important.`
`18:08.05`	`*** join/#openmoko MTrevi (n=3v1n0@87.12.250.234)`
`18:08.34`	`parodyoflanguage`	`Gnutoo: I'm all into the FS philosophy; but even in that philosophy freedom is the important thing, especially with the current state of lock in with cell phone vendors. It's interesting how every other day a story pops up on Slashdot how another application has been forbidden access to everyone's iPhone by Apple.`
`18:08.52`	`parodyoflanguage`	`It just boggles the mind.`
`18:08.58`	`lymeca`	`Okay then how does 1800 and 1900 fit into the picture?`
`18:09.12`	`lymeca`	`It's very confusing and I don't know which phone to pair up with which service.`
`18:09.14`	`Gnutoo`	`parodyoflanguage, you're right`
`18:10.09`	`parodyoflanguage`	`I understand that the iPhone is a pretty slick toy, but one has to wonder when even the supposed owner of the said device is only given limited access to the device. Apple still has root.`
`18:10.48`	`ieatlint`	`iphone fans argue you can circumvent apple's application blocks, and you can get root on the phone`
`18:10.49`	`parodyoflanguage`	`Okay, I'll stop preaching to the choir now :)`
`18:10.50`	`*** join/#openmoko Tig\|_ (n=tigger@82.153.215.237)`
`18:10.55`	`lindi-`	`parodyoflanguage: it would have been easier if we could just have taken some existing hardware and developed free software userland for it. unfortunately that can't be done without specs :/`
`18:11.08`	`lindi-`	`parodyoflanguage: so now we have both experimental hardware and software`
`18:11.38`	`ieatlint`	`yeah, that would've been nicer`
`18:11.47`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: Yes, that's great. You can break into your own property. That sounds like a bug, not a feature :)`
`18:12.00`	`ieatlint`	`but then, openmoko formed the community, and they wouldn't exist if it weren't for the hardware`
`18:12.16`	`ieatlint`	`parodyoflanguage, sady, it sounds like a lot of software these days :(`
`18:12.38`	`ieatlint`	`i've a stack of bluray movies, a brd-rom, and no way to play them in linux`
`18:12.46`	`ieatlint`	`it's quite depressing`
`18:13.23`	`parodyoflanguage`	`lindi-: Aye.`
`18:13.55`	`Gnutoo`	`ieatlint, that's a huge risk...a forced update could brick the device`
`18:15.01`	`ieatlint`	`Gnutoo, sure, but apple won't do that`
`18:15.08`	`ieatlint`	`they've already proven they won't`
`18:15.16`	`Gnutoo`	`ieatlint, how?`
`18:15.41`	`ieatlint`	`because apple has released a lot of updates, for both the original iphone and the 3g`
`18:15.44`	`paulproteus`	`lindi-, I suggested a year and a half ago that OM just be built on some of the already-hacked HTC-brand Windows Mobile phones.`
`18:15.45`	`paulproteus`	`As per #htc-linux.`
`18:15.47`	`ieatlint`	`and they've never tried to do it`
`18:16.03`	`parodyoflanguage`	`I'm in the middle of another "Apple bans iPhone App" discussion on slashdot, and it's sad to see how the Apple fanboys are just bending over backwards, plowing through every impasse of reason, just to defend Apple's actions here.`
`18:16.09`	`ieatlint`	`and even if it's just 1000 users who hacked their phones (and it's probably many times that), they'd make a lot of noise`
`18:16.27`	`ieatlint`	`the sentiment of apple intentionally bricking peoples phones is REALLY bad press`
`18:16.36`	`ieatlint`	`so they won't...`
`18:16.47`	`*** join/#openmoko cdm (n=cdm@71.116.119.187)`
`18:16.47`	`ieatlint`	`don't get me wrong, i'm not an iphone person, at all`
`18:16.54`	`ieatlint`	`i have too may friends who are, though :(`
`18:17.01`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: link?`
`18:17.14`	`parodyoflanguage`	`http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/21/122225`
`18:17.31`	`nyu`	`apple.slashdot.org... not surprising :-)`
`18:17.41`	`ieatlint`	`eh, i dislike apple fanboys too... but apple does have reason`
`18:17.44`	`parodyoflanguage`	`True, but it shows up on the mainpage.`
`18:17.59`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: Oh, I know they have reason: self-interest.`
`18:18.07`	`ieatlint`	`there's an implied warranty if not explicit provided by apple for all software you install on the phone, and they need to cover their support costs`
`18:18.19`	`ieatlint`	`they're a business, what reason should they have?`
`18:19.03`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: such kind of brand protection is irrelevant. their platform will die if they fail to follow ballmer's mantra`
`18:19.11`	`nyu`	`developers developers developers developers`
`18:19.17`	`nyu`	`the only smart thing I heard from that guy`
`18:19.18`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: I'm not against self-interest. Self-interest is the way the world works. But the way the free market is supposed to work is that product is successful when the self-interest of the company aligns with the self-interest of the customer.`
`18:19.39`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: that's an illusion`
`18:19.48`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: we align it ourselves, via enforcement`
`18:20.03`	`nyu`	`the market won't do it for you`
`18:20.19`	`nyu`	`instead, focus on providing a free alternative`
`18:20.21`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: The market is part of the enforcement process.`
`18:20.24`	`cjb`	`parodyoflanguage: laissez-faire capitalism isn't doing so hot this week, it turns out.`
`18:20.39`	`ieatlint`	`satisfying a small minority of customers (ie, people who are really upset about X program being banned) versus reinforcing the image of a stable phone and thus attracting more customers ... easy choice, and fewer support calls`
`18:20.42`	`parodyoflanguage`	`cjb: It has it's ups and downs.`
`18:21.18`	`ieatlint`	`i'm not justifying the authoritarian practice, but rather criticising those who bitch`
`18:21.30`	`ieatlint`	`you bought into a closed system, found out it was closed, and are upset`
`18:21.33`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: call it this way if you like. the thing is, instead of complaining about them being evil, we should replace them`
`18:21.34`	`ieatlint`	`boohoo for you`
`18:21.54`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: there's no public scrutiny`
`18:22.08`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: you aren't supposed to make an investigation every time you buy something are you?`
`18:22.26`	`ieatlint`	`nyu, there was no investigation needed`
`18:22.27`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: I suggest that the majority of iPhone customers don't even understand the difference between open and closed. That's the way the tech industry has always worked: companies take advantage of the ignorance of their customers.`
`18:22.40`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: maybe not for you`
`18:22.41`	`ieatlint`	`no where does apple even imply that it was open, in any way shape or form`
`18:22.59`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: no, that's assumed by the customer`
`18:23.03`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: I guess there's some sick justice involved in this, but I can't fully stomach it myself.`
`18:23.14`	`ieatlint`	`parodyoflanguage, and those customers are the ones who won't see the app in the store and never know it was banned`
`18:23.31`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: when you buy a fridge, you'd be fscking annoyed if your assumption that you can put anything inside without the fridge "banning you" were not correct`
`18:23.59`	`nyu`	`anyway, apple will find its way`
`18:24.00`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: They'll never know what apps they'll never see in the store.`
`18:24.06`	`ieatlint`	`nyu, but a fridge is closed, if it breaks, and you don't go to an authorised dealer, then yeah, you lose your warranty`
`18:24.17`	`nyu`	`if they alienate their developers, they alienate their customers. too bad for them`
`18:24.27`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: this has nothing to do with warranty`
`18:24.32`	`*** join/#openmoko recluze (n=hilbert@116.71.218.96)`
`18:24.36`	`ieatlint`	`apple didn't care much about the developers to begin with`
`18:24.43`	`ieatlint`	`it took them over a year to create an sdk`
`18:24.47`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: I'm talking about fridges that make their own decisions for you, and decide what you should eat`
`18:24.49`	`ieatlint`	`and they charge $100 to get it`
`18:24.57`	`nyu`	`it has nothing to do with warranty`
`18:25.12`	`paulproteus`	`ieatlint, I agree with you, but you probably already know that.`
`18:25.17`	`paulproteus`	`re: "those who bitch"`
`18:25.18`	`ieatlint`	`nyu, it's an invalid analogy then`
`18:25.19`	`nyu`	`any company stupid enough to market such a thing will eventually go out of bussiness`
`18:25.25`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: not at all`
`18:25.36`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: you simply didn't see anti-user fridges before`
`18:25.48`	`nyu`	`but you've seen anti-user computers`
`18:25.49`	`ieatlint`	`heh`
`18:25.52`	`*** part/#openmoko recluze (n=hilbert@116.71.218.96)`
`18:26.00`	`paulproteus`	`nyu, But I disagree.`
`18:26.01`	`ieatlint`	`that analogy would work if the phone prevented you from calling certain people`
`18:26.08`	`ieatlint`	`or bringing the phone into certain states`
`18:26.14`	`paulproteus`	`It's not all users that they're anti!`
`18:26.17`	`paulproteus`	`That's the trick.`
`18:26.21`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: it's not a phone`
`18:26.33`	`ieatlint`	`nyu, the iphone works as promised (except for the 3g, hehe)`
`18:26.44`	`ieatlint`	`a refridgerator works as promised`
`18:26.48`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: stop talking about it as if it were a phone. everybody knows the iphone is a computer`
`18:26.56`	`ieatlint`	`heh`
`18:26.58`	`yabo`	`its not a computer`
`18:27.05`	`ieatlint`	`it's an embedded device`
`18:27.10`	`yabo`	`its accessory for design and music-students`
`18:27.27`	`paulproteus`	`nyu, "everybody knows" - we do.`
`18:27.28`	`nyu`	`really? I see a computer in it. what makes the difference?`
`18:27.31`	`paulproteus`	`Do the users know or care?`
`18:27.38`	`nyu`	`oh wait, I know. the difference is made by the fact it's locked down`
`18:27.41`	`nyu`	`circular argument`
`18:27.48`	`ieatlint`	`nyu, ok, i have a phone from 1999, one of the old nokia bar phones`
`18:27.50`	`paulproteus`	`nyu, Look, I think we all hate the iPhone's restrictions equally here.`
`18:27.51`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: Anyways, I suggest you check out the FS philosophy (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/) sometime. The incredible thing is that this stuff was written decades ago. It's rather abstract and hard for some people to grasp, but that is also the reason why it's so far reaching. But if you're interested in software, this should interest you too.`
`18:28.00`	`ieatlint`	`it has a OS, games, software.. is it a computer?`
`18:28.03`	`nyu`	`paulproteus: they care at some point, when they want to do things and they can't`
`18:28.15`	`paulproteus`	`nyu, Yes, and like all of us, people face trade-offs.`
`18:28.23`	`nyu`	`paulproteus: I don't hate them, just pity them...`
`18:28.24`	`paulproteus`	`My parents know that I can run an Asterisk server in the basement for $20 a year.`
`18:28.44`	`paulproteus`	`But they'd rather pay Comcast more money to have less control so they can do less worrying.`
`18:28.57`	`ieatlint`	`the iphone is advertised as a phone -- it can freely make and recieve calls on the network for which it was advertised... it can load websites, etc, all as advertised`
`18:28.59`	`Zorkman`	`my FSO ms3 doesn't charge when pluggend into usb and "apm" returns a white line, what can I do?`
`18:29.22`	`nyu`	`paulproteus: people never pay to have less control. except maybe alcoholics in rehab`
`18:29.32`	`paulproteus`	`I'm also 3000 miles away now, so they think Comcast is more likely to help them when it breaks.`
`18:29.33`	`ieatlint`	`anyway, you get what apple promises you, beyond that, your results may vary`
`18:29.36`	`nyu`	`paulproteus: what you describe is people paying for a service`
`18:30.02`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: I don't hate them either. I fear them. Anyone who thinks this is limited to a line of Apple products is naive.`
`18:30.12`	`*** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (n=AntonTak@poolofdespair.net)`
`18:30.16`	`paulproteus`	`So there are a huge number of competing interests. I just want that to be clear to us Free Software proponents that when people buy the iPhone, they could be doing it for rational reasons.`
`18:30.17`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: apple is naive`
`18:30.37`	`ieatlint`	`apple isn't naive, they just don't care`
`18:30.38`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: when I read these things about them, I can't help but think these people have totally lost contact with reality`
`18:30.57`	`ieatlint`	`the advanced users cause the problems, they want the customer who goes "LOOK! SHINY!"`
`18:31.09`	`ieatlint`	`and they got them -- a whole lot of them`
`18:31.19`	`nyu`	`let's see the end of the day shall we?`
`18:31.26`	`nyu`	`who's gonna get more apps`
`18:31.28`	`nyu`	`more developers`
`18:31.30`	`nyu`	`more community`
`18:31.47`	`paulproteus`	`Either Apple or Android. Hard to say at this point.`
`18:31.54`	`ieatlint`	`heh, that's an entirely different argument nyu`
`18:32.09`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: no, it's directly related to their policy of alienating stakeholders`
`18:32.28`	`paulproteus`	`BTW, I'm currently enjoying using the FR and Qtopia as my primary phone.`
`18:32.29`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: I don't think anyone is accusing Apple of false advertising.`
`18:32.35`	`nyu`	`too much hubris, they lost reason`
`18:32.48`	`paulproteus`	`Thanks lpotter and mwester for your work on that!`
`18:32.49`	`ieatlint`	`nyu, you keep thinking apple cares, they don't`
`18:33.06`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: but they will when they find themselves lagging behind`
`18:33.21`	`ieatlint`	`they added an sdk after people bitched so much, not as part of their original iphone business model`
`18:33.45`	`ieatlint`	`unlikely, apple has the sway to get priorietary software onboard`
`18:33.51`	`ieatlint`	`adobe flash, for instance`
`18:33.54`	`*** join/#openmoko gregdude (n=imrehg@79-78-128-67.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`18:34.01`	`nyu`	`apple doesn't like flash`
`18:34.18`	`Zorkman`	`people: is it bad to unterupt an opkg upgrade?`
`18:34.19`	`ieatlint`	`hmm, i know their browser doesn't have it, but i thought it had other support..`
`18:34.20`	`ceda`	`apple infringes on Apple (records)`
`18:34.21`	`nyu`	`neither do we. or microsoft. or... well, nobody except adobe it seems g`
`18:34.25`	`Zorkman`	`because i really have to go`
`18:34.43`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: I think the problem with the iPhone is with the things that they don't advertise. No one should expect full disclosure, but this is a biggie.`
`18:34.56`	`gregdude`	`Zorkman, are you installing or running with -test?`
`18:35.02`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: they cut a deal with google so they could access youtube media without flash`
`18:35.06`	`ieatlint`	`parodyoflanguage, what don't they disclose?`
`18:35.11`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: So, if I'm a bitch, at least I'm not Apple's bitch :)`
`18:35.12`	`ceda`	`Zorkman: you _can_ get into trouble, but you might also have no bigger problems`
`18:35.27`	`ceda`	`depends on which package your upgrading`
`18:35.30`	`Zorkman`	`ceda: i'll try my lucki :)`
`18:35.31`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: That customers don't have full access to the device.`
`18:35.32`	`Zorkman`	`bye`
`18:35.50`	`ieatlint`	`parodyoflanguage, i think it's reasonably assumed`
`18:36.05`	`ieatlint`	`and i've not heard of anyone intending to sue apple for not "disclosing" that`
`18:36.15`	`nyu`	`ieatlint: actually, most customers don't understand what "having access" means`
`18:36.30`	`ieatlint`	`nyu, yeah, and they're the best customers`
`18:36.35`	`nyu`	`but they understand what "sorry, I won't do this for you" means`
`18:36.46`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: There's no law against it. It's still not right though. Like I said, they're praying on the ignorance of their customers.`
`18:37.00`	`ieatlint`	`i think most iphone users are oblivious to what their phone is capable of`
`18:37.28`	`AntonTakk`	`ieatlint: porn! ;)`
`18:37.33`	`ieatlint`	`i know it, in fact, as i used to use a nokia n80 (symbian phone), and when the iphone first came out, i had had this n80 for a year`
`18:37.56`	`ieatlint`	`and i can't tell you how many friends i have who got iphones and tried to brag to me about things my n80 had been doing for a full year prior`
`18:38.21`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: So, that sort of brings me to my next point. If iPhone customers and potential customers aren't aware of these serious drawbacks to the iPhone, and don't understand what good open and free access to the phone is, then it is up to the community to explain things and give opinions about Apple products.`
`18:38.35`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: Or, in your language, it is our duty to "bitch" :)`
`18:38.37`	`paulproteus`	`parodyoflanguage, preying, unless that was some wicked pun`
`18:38.49`	`ieatlint`	`parodyoflanguage, people don't care`
`18:38.53`	`gregdude`	`ieatlint, one should look around in Japan, they apparently shun at the iPhone, because it's too "stupid" compared to their gadgets...`
`18:39.07`	`parodyoflanguage`	`paulproteus: No, just wrong spelling :)`
`18:39.17`	`ieatlint`	`until you can show them your neo, with an app on it they can't match, they'll not give the slightest bit of interest`
`18:39.18`	`[Rui]__`	`Screw Apple, nobody needs no stinking payment or authorization to install my freshly new rotate-0.1.0`
`18:39.18`	`LionKMP`	`gregdude: wow cool :)`
`18:39.25`	`[Rui]__`	`http://blog.1407.org/2008/09/21/new-rotate-for-openmoko/`
`18:39.26`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: They don't know why they should care.`
`18:39.42`	`paulproteus`	`lol [Rui]__! (-:`
`18:39.42`	`AntonTakk`	`ieatlint: remoko and orrery come to mind`
`18:39.43`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: they understand better with practical explanations`
`18:39.45`	`ieatlint`	`parodyoflanguage, because they don't have the time to care`
`18:39.49`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: Let people decide for themselves when the reasons are given, but don't bitch about people bitching about Apple.`
`18:39.56`	`ceda`	`[Rui]__: nice`
`18:40.00`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: i.e. I can run this app on my FR you can't run this app on your iphone`
`18:40.28`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: Hahah. Okay, you're going in the direction of unreasonable now.`
`18:40.49`	`paulproteus`	`Not that they don't "have time" to care but that they have other things they care even more about.`
`18:40.56`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: This is when you should calm down and think about this issue for a couple of nights :)`
`18:40.59`	`ieatlint`	`you're saying you should make philosophical arguments as to why people shouldn't use apple`
`18:41.01`	`paulproteus`	`Environmentalists who think that buying a Mac will help them save more trees might be justified in their own minds.`
`18:41.08`	`ieatlint`	`people are even going to feign interest, parodyoflanguage`
`18:41.31`	`ieatlint`	`aren't, rather`
`18:42.03`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: Some people will. You think everyone has the same limited attention span as you do :)`
`18:42.06`	`ieatlint`	`and i criticise any apple user who agreed to a licence that restricts them, and then complains when apple excercises that licence`
`18:42.13`	`parodyoflanguage`	`ieatlint: Not everyone is the same.`
`18:42.16`	`paulproteus`	`People who want to "revolutionize the way we appreciate media on a mobile platform" don't care about the Freedom of that platform, they care about how many users they can reach to have the biggest impact.`
`18:42.19`	`paulproteus`	`I know, I've talked to them.`
`18:42.42`	`*** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD43D15.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:42.46`	`ieatlint`	`parodyoflanguage, i've had enough conversations with people about linux to have a pretty good understanding of how they would react`
`18:42.47`	`nyu`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_(psychology)`
`18:43.10`	`Tig\|_`	`paulproteus: I think you will find environmentalist don't like apple as they are right up on the shitlist as far as greenpeace are concerned regarding their policies : http://www.greenpeace.org/apple/`
`18:43.35`	`paulproteus`	`Tig\|, After that came out Apple improved.`
`18:44.02`	`paulproteus`	`I'm not Apple apologist, don't get me wrong. For Christ's sake I'm a Debian maintainer. It's just that I understand that people have priorities, and that for very few people is software freedom even visible in the top N.`
`18:44.07`	`nyu`	`Tig\|_: but apple has a beautiful logo. they must be env-friendly!`
`18:44.08`	`[Rui]__`	`Tig\|: it's also of importance to note their language`
`18:44.22`	`[Rui]__`	`Tig\|: they don't say don't use Apple, they say: Apple fans, demand better`
`18:44.33`	`parodyoflanguage`	`paulproteus: Well, it really isn't the most important thing.`
`18:44.47`	`parodyoflanguage`	`paulproteus: Hell, my happiness is more important than software freedom.`
`18:44.53`	`nyu`	`paulproteus: it always is (hello fellow debianite). but they usually only see it after a long chain of consequences, so they don't understand the problem`
`18:44.54`	`[Rui]__`	`so maybe we should alert iPhone users that they don't have their freedoms, and if they don't want to change their phones, at least demand their freedoms back, from Apple`
`18:45.01`	`paulproteus`	`Sometimes I act against the last thing you said, parodyoflanguage. (-:`
`18:45.02`	`Tig\|_`	`well apple fans are locked in stockholm syndrome with apple anyway`
`18:45.10`	`parodyoflanguage`	`paulproteus: Put on any absolute scale, software freedom is very low on anyone's priority list.`
`18:45.40`	`slaxxin`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:45.49`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: I don't agree. it's just difficult to identify. I heard people countless times complain about problems that are caused by their lack of freedom, without being able to identify the cause`
`18:46.03`	`nyu`	`even if explained to them (sigh)`
`18:46.18`	`paulproteus`	`sighs with nyu`
`18:46.39`	`*** join/#openmoko trashhold (n=milko@3mhz.net)`
`18:46.42`	`paulproteus`	`I'm going to go get dressed, but it's been fun chatting with y'all. (-:`
`18:46.47`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: So, it's like mosquitos biting you. It typically won't kill you, but you'd be better off without it. I agree.`
`18:46.53`	`paulproteus`	`If anyone wants to talk more, Google my cell number and ring me on my FreeRunner. (-;`
`18:46.59`	`*** join/#openmoko lambda (n=seb@33.15.195-77.rev.gaoland.net)`
`18:47.00`	`nyu`	`example: computer crashes because it's running an nvideous blob because they bought card from a vendor that doesn't respect their freedom`
`18:47.07`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: But, you can get along through life even with mosquitos biting you all the time.`
`18:47.08`	`ceda`	`[Rui]__: you gotta make rotate less sensitive`
`18:47.22`	`trashhold`	`Hello everybody :) Is there a simple way to make sftp or fish work with dropbear?`
`18:47.24`	`parodyoflanguage`	`See ya pantsd_`
`18:47.35`	`[Rui]__`	`ceda: I tried, but in some cases the heuristics are borked`
`18:47.41`	`ceda`	`my freerunner started to flicker while it was on the couch here next to me (just a few degrees angle)`
`18:47.54`	`[Rui]__`	`ceda: yes, the README says so in the known issues`
`18:47.56`	`parodyoflanguage`	`err, bye paulproteus`
`18:47.59`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: sometimes a new breed of mosquitoes comes up, and they have large teeth and cut people's limbs off`
`18:47.59`	`ceda`	`[Rui]__: but you could introduce a "silent time"`
`18:48.18`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: That's the danger over the horizon.`
`18:48.30`	`[Rui]__`	`the changelog, I mean`
`18:48.47`	`[Rui]__`	`ceda: look at the code, you'll see I tried that already :)`
`18:48.49`	`slaxxin`	`a 4 foot tall flying red rooster CAN be right`
`18:49.05`	`[Rui]__`	`ceda: but something went horribly wrong and it would stop rotating quickly.`
`18:49.08`	`trashhold`	`Or is there any way to upload the files over to Neo1973, any distro, without installing openssh, and without using only the console?`
`18:49.29`	`*** join/#openmoko mac2k (n=mac2k@ip-88-152-142-80.hsi.ish.de)`
`18:49.52`	`slaxxin`	`copy them to the sdcard?`
`18:50.07`	`slaxxin`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:50.11`	`nyu`	`"cat > file" from the X11 keyboard`
`18:50.17`	`*** join/#openmoko adsllc (n=davel@cblmdm72-240-119-60.buckeyecom.net)`
`18:50.28`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: But, I think the problem with the FS movement has been that there's this loss of context, an understanding of what the importance of FS is in the scheme of things. In some contexts, it's just an annoyance. In other contexts, it's hugely important. But without the ability to prioritize the issue appropriately, the FS movement has largely been seen as a group of zealots.`
`18:50.32`	`slaxxin`	`install from sdcard:)`
`18:50.38`	`trashhold`	`Well, taring and untarring them over ssh will be faster than turning the phone off... I want speed :)`
`18:51.29`	`adsllc`	`Does anyone know the fix for "UnboundLocalError: local variable 'first_iface' referenced before assignment " when running Mofi?`
`18:51.37`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: so? maybe we are a group of zealots, but our zeal is for freedom. theirs is for money. I think it's clear we have the moral high ground`
`18:51.55`	`*** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@85.182.54.207)`
`18:52.04`	`slaxxin`	`microsoft will rewrite history showing THEY were the inventors of open source`
`18:52.07`	`trashhold`	`You know, tar c IMG_9299.jpg \| ssh 192.168.0.202 'tar x -C /media/card/Pictures/', is not the greatest way to upload a single picture :)`
`18:52.23`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: Well, between the fs movement and the proprietary vendors, I support the fs movement.`
`18:53.05`	`slaxxin`	`if ui cant beatem,, joinem, an takem over`
`18:53.09`	`[Rui]__`	`parodyoflanguage: you seem to be confused, nobody sane says Free Software is the most important thing.`
`18:53.32`	`nyu`	`I do. but I'm insane :-P`
`18:53.36`	`*** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust818.midd.cable.ntl.com)`
`18:53.51`	`[Rui]__`	`parodyoflanguage: put anyone in a life or death situation, and people will prefer to live rather than die.`
`18:53.51`	`parodyoflanguage`	`[Rui]__: Well, the sane aren't always the most vocal.`
`18:54.02`	`slaxxin`	`i doo too an im not sane:)`
`18:54.17`	`[Rui]__`	`parodyoflanguage: even Richard Stallman would prefer to live, but he'd be brave enough to die for it, I suppose.`
`18:54.20`	`AntonTakk`	`[Rui]__: i have to agree, personally, i think it floats around third/forth depending on context`
`18:54.20`	`parodyoflanguage`	`[Rui]__: Right. That's all I'm trying to say. And people are still questioning me on it.`
`18:54.22`	`LionKMP`	`wow, I found a new meny by clicking the tool on the taskbar! After 2 months ownership.`
`18:54.39`	`[Rui]__`	`parodyoflanguage: the thing is, you're placing very shallow reasons`
`18:54.49`	`parodyoflanguage`	`[Rui]__: ?`
`18:54.49`	`trashhold`	`[Rui]__: Well, but it's more important than it seems at first. The software has become a fundamental part of our lives...`
`18:54.56`	`trashhold`	`s,The s,S,`
`18:55.12`	`nyu`	`[Rui]__: if I had to choose, I'd love an accelerometer-based rotator`
`18:55.27`	`parodyoflanguage`	`[Rui]__: See. People are questioning your statement even here. :)`
`18:55.51`	`nyu`	`who cares about live and death when you got a nifty accelerometer thing`
`18:55.59`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: heh`
`18:56.07`	`[Rui]__`	`trashhold: not more important than breathing air.`
`18:56.38`	`parodyoflanguage`	`[Rui]__: I think determining the overall priority of free software is badly needed for the fs movement.`
`18:56.46`	`[Rui]__`	`parodyoflanguage: you have placed the choice on shallow reasons, not life or death situations.`
`18:57.10`	`parodyoflanguage`	`[Rui]__: I can imagine some zealots who, for example, won't help their mother send and email unless she agrees to switch to a free OS.`
`18:57.43`	`*** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@BAA16c8.baa.pppool.de)`
`18:57.45`	`parodyoflanguage`	`[Rui]__: What shallow reasons?`
`18:57.52`	`[Rui]__`	`most people who chose iPhone did it for: a) being a fanboy, b) thinking the gay user interface is so much better than all the features they lost from their previous phone, c) all of the above`
`18:57.55`	`kirun`	`I'm for free software, and I bought my mother a Mac.`
`18:58.01`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: are they more zealots than their mother? your situation cannot be judged without all context`
`18:58.17`	`[Rui]__`	`there's no reason in favour of the iDicatorPhone that isn't shallow :)`
`18:58.37`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: if you strip it, you seem to be emmitting a generic judgement that would apply to any variation`
`18:58.40`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: Of course they are. The point of free software is supposed to bring people together, not divide people.`
`18:59.21`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: and what's the point to justify non-free software?`
`18:59.33`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: it's completely missing in your description`
`18:59.44`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: That it's your mother's computer and she can do what she wants with it? :)`
`19:00.00`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: maybe it was needed for a reason, or maybe it's purely arbitrary`
`19:00.13`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: nobody was questioning that`
`19:00.41`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: Then what aren't you still getting?`
`19:00.48`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: my point is, don't make absolute judgements over ethical conflicts`
`19:01.19`	`parodyoflanguage`	`And my point is: help your mother sending an email, even if she doesn't use free software :)`
`19:01.48`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: why doesn't she? you state it as if it were a fact of nature`
`19:02.05`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: Because that's what she's used to using.`
`19:02.46`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: ok, so rephrase it as "help your mother sending an email, even if she can't do it with free software because she has a strong dependency on a non-free UI"`
`19:02.51`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: It takes older people longer to accustom themselves to changes, and they far prefer everything staying familiar.`
`19:02.57`	`nyu`	`see? that's the part you ommitted`
`19:03.22`	`*** join/#openmoko geaaru_ (n=geaaru@host130-171-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`19:03.22`	`*** join/#openmoko emilis_info (n=emilis@clt-84-32-58-67.vdnet.lt)`
`19:03.29`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: I think you're being pedantic :D`
`19:03.31`	`nyu`	`though, maybe that dependency is not so strong. when _my_ mother migrated, she didn't even notice the UI change`
`19:03.35`	`trashhold`	`nyu: The problem with proprietary software is on the side of the developer/"vendor", not on the side of the user. The user is affected by the proprietary software, but there is nothing wrong with the fact the he or she is using it.`
`19:03.36`	`nyu`	`no, I do have a point`
`19:04.11`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_The_Children_(politics)`
`19:04.15`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: Okay, I can see it in the sense that for other reasons your mom might be using the computer because she isn't aware of a free alternative.`
`19:04.38`	`*** join/#openmoko RayDar (n=raydar@32.159.102.50)`
`19:05.34`	`RayDar`	`Is there a tutorial on how to compile a "hello world" for my phone? -- in C would be nice.`
`19:06.08`	`cjb`	`RayDar: I usually use bitbake`
`19:06.26`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: BTW, my last comment was agreeing with you, btw.`
`19:06.28`	`trashhold`	`nyu: In theory, the decision whether you should help the user must not be affected by his choice, and the right thing is to help. Some people choose to not help in such cases, because they believe it might help in the long term and reduce the problem with prop. software, but it's still not the right thing to do`
`19:06.46`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: :-)`
`19:07.04`	`*** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@bofh.xelerance.com)`
`19:07.16`	`nyu`	`trashhold: you're oversimplifiing a complex ethical situation`
`19:07.39`	`RayDar`	`Oh no. It's a moral canundrum.`
`19:07.58`	`AntonTakk`	`is 2008.x usable as a daily phone yet?`
`19:08.00`	`trashhold`	`nyu: I believe that I was closer to just stating that is a complex situation :)`
`19:08.02`	`parodyoflanguage`	`RayDar: We're discussing fs philosophy :)`
`19:08.10`	`*** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-16-155.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`19:08.17`	`[Rui]__`	`AntonTakk: I'm using it as a daily phone`
`19:08.20`	`nyu`	`trashhold: but you say "this is always the right thing to do, no matter what"`
`19:08.37`	`nyu`	`and I agree it is in some cases, but it depends on lots of things`
`19:08.45`	`*** part/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@91.89.242.202)`
`19:09.27`	`parodyoflanguage`	`trashhold: Hmm...`
`19:10.10`	`parodyoflanguage`	`Well, in general, even outside of the scope of sofware, in order to support the freedom of others, you're supposed to support their ability to make their own choices.`
`19:10.38`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: how does someone's ability to make choices need external support?`
`19:11.17`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: Well, what's the difference between freedom and bondage?`
`19:11.20`	`nyu`	`if I choose that I want to use MS-Office, and you don't install it for me, that doesn't mean you're obstructing my freedom`
`19:11.28`	`trashhold`	`nyu: No, my point was, that the right thing, only in respect to the situation, forgetting everything outside its scope, is to help. :) I sometimes don't, but when I do so, someone is affected by my desire to improve something... And I might not be improving it much, you know... :)`
`19:11.37`	`nyu`	`as long as you don't prevent me from installing it`
`19:11.42`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: A slave can still make his own choices, but he isn't considered free.`
`19:12.11`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: not because of lack of support, but because of the presence of restriction`
`19:12.59`	`parodyoflanguage`	`So, positive and negative freedom.`
`19:13.02`	`[Rui]__`	`just a thing... interesting as this is, you're discussing Free Software, could you continue on #fsf or #gnu ?`
`19:13.36`	`nyu`	`parodyoflanguage: no. freedom is asserted by self-determination. it's not freedom when someone else gives it to you`
`19:13.37`	`[Rui]__`	`it's more or less gone to the point where you're discussing it only you three/four`
`19:13.44`	`nyu`	`uhm`
`19:13.44`	`parodyoflanguage`	`[Rui]__: Heh, good point. But I gotta go anyway.`
`19:13.46`	`nyu`	`right`
`19:14.05`	`[Rui]__`	`generating alot of "spam" for almost 400 people .)`
`19:14.10`	`nyu`	`I should do some work ;-)`
`19:14.14`	`parodyoflanguage`	`nyu: Sure. I'll have to mull that over.`
`19:14.17`	`[Rui]__`	`and I'm making dinner!`
`19:14.29`	`*** part/#openmoko _alcik_ (n=alcik@chello087207026137.chello.pl)`
`19:14.52`	`*** join/#openmoko dolf1074 (n=chatzill@78-20-186-137.access.telenet.be)`
`19:15.43`	`Gnutoo`	`hello, what's the size in pixel of the upper bar?`
`19:15.50`	`Gnutoo`	`in om2008.9`
`19:17.04`	`*** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-088-067-083-041.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`19:17.45`	`*** join/#openmoko tuXXX (n=damien@86.74.35.252)`
`19:19.42`	`*** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176112164.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`19:22.17`	`nyu`	`Gnutoo: take a screenshot, then you can check it in gimp`
`19:22.41`	`Gnutoo`	`nyu, ok thanks`
`19:23.32`	`Gnutoo`	`nyu, how do i take a screenshot in 2008.9...i know how to do it in FSO...but not here...`
`19:23.39`	`*** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net)`
`19:25.06`	`*** part/#openmoko El_Senator (n=El_Senat@0x4dd4371c.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`19:27.31`	`*** join/#openmoko \|FiLiP\| (n=Filip@213.219.172.68.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net)`
`19:29.46`	`*** join/#openmoko Tig1 (n=user@82.153.215.237)`
`19:31.23`	`LionKMP`	`Gnutoo: gre-scap`
`19:31.40`	`Gnutoo`	`LionKMP, thanks`
`19:31.49`	`LionKMP`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gpe-scap`
`19:31.52`	`LionKMP`	`not gre :)`
`19:32.33`	`LionKMP`	`I run it from SSH with "DISPLAY=:0 gpe-scap", so that I can take any time.`
`19:35.45`	`*** join/#openmoko pd_ (n=pd@154-goc-29.acn.waw.pl)`
`19:35.54`	`pd_`	`hello`
`19:36.08`	`pd_`	`i need help with sim card issue`
`19:36.12`	`pd_`	`who can help me?`
`19:36.48`	`LionKMP`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_Hardware_Issues#Some_SIMs_Don.27t_Work ?`
`19:37.15`	`LionKMP`	`(I don't know the problem, I just know that article, so I linked in case you didn't see yet.)`
`19:37.41`	`pd_`	`LionKMP: this is not a answer ... yesterday i succesful register my sim today after reboot i didnt get any sim request`
`19:37.59`	`pd_`	`this is problem`
`19:38.24`	`LionKMP`	`sorry, I don't know. Let's wait to see if someone else.`
`19:43.38`	`ceda`	`how do I get my FSO image into USB Host mode?`
`19:47.42`	`*** join/#openmoko milosF (n=milos@92.36.153.193)`
`19:49.06`	`LionKMP`	`is this not ok for FSO? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Host_Mode`
`19:53.09`	`ceda`	`nope`
`19:53.18`	`*** join/#openmoko bernt (n=bernt@dslb-084-061-234-129.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`19:53.26`	`ceda`	`my keyboard doesn't light up, which it did before :(`
`19:54.24`	`ceda`	`(when pressing NumLock)`
`19:54.46`	`*** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@85.182.54.207)`
`19:55.21`	`*** join/#openmoko Flyser__ (n=flyser@212.144.71.158)`
`19:56.53`	`ceda`	`nyu: at the dinner table at christmas 2003 I told my relatives/extended family that I won't help them with their windows issues`
`19:57.16`	`ceda`	`... after 5 years time`
`19:57.39`	`ceda`	`the reason being that there would be no reason to run Microsoft's Windows as a OS`
`19:57.46`	`ceda`	`it has no advantages to Linux by then`
`19:58.06`	`ceda`	`that was a premonition and I think I'll stick to it`
`19:59.38`	`ceda`	`today, for all the people that sat around that table (and their kids), windows is an enabler in regards of gaming (I have two cousins that like to play WOW) but for everything else, there really is no valid reason for paying 100 â¬ for their OS`
`19:59.58`	`ceda`	`my grandparents run ubuntu, 06.10 and they're still happy with it`
`20:00.07`	`ceda`	`it have never failed them, it just keeps on running`
`20:01.46`	`malik1972`	`what does "Would you like to receive list mail batched in a daily digest?" on the mailing lists exactly mean? one bundled mail a day or one additional one?`
`20:02.52`	`cjb`	`one a day`
`20:02.56`	`*** join/#openmoko stefreak (n=stefreak@frnk-590cea2d.pool.einsundeins.de)`
`20:03.11`	`*** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213.152.39.89)`
`20:04.22`	`malik1972`	`cjb: so there is no risk of getting hundreds of emails, thats fine`
`20:05.08`	`kd8ikt`	`cool just baught a cheap bt headset to play with`
`20:05.13`	`kd8ikt`	`11$`
`20:05.53`	`malik1972`	`cjb: is there a specific time when this email is sent?`
`20:07.05`	`cjb`	`malik1972: probably midnight? dunno.`
`20:07.38`	`*** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.141.203)`
`20:09.00`	`malik1972`	`cjb: thanx, if i subscribe and activate daily digest, i will get only one email a day, otherwise i could not handle it at work`
`20:09.17`	`*** join/#openmoko zlfita (i=atilla@turtle.stack.nl)`
`20:10.53`	`trashhold`	`What good image viewer is suggested for a use with the Neo?`
`20:12.54`	`pd_`	`omview is quite nice`
`20:13.02`	`Tig1`	`trashhold: I have used the gpe one`
`20:13.05`	`*** join/#openmoko bernt (n=bernt@dslb-084-061-234-129.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`20:13.31`	`pd_`	`how can i restart gsm modem on om2008?`
`20:13.37`	`*** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host78-55-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`20:14.10`	`TAsn`	`pd_, i never had om2008 though i can guess that it will be something like`
`20:14.22`	`TAsn`	`/etc/init.d/gsmd restart`
`20:15.07`	`*** join/#openmoko Gyb (n=Gyb@f053153062.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`20:17.08`	`*** join/#openmoko bernt (n=bernt@dslb-084-061-234-129.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`20:17.30`	`pd_`	`TAsn: there are no gsmd`
`20:17.40`	`*** join/#openmoko bernt (n=bernt@dslb-084-061-234-129.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`20:18.03`	`TAsn`	`no idea ;\ sorry.`
`20:18.10`	`TAsn`	`was my only guess ;[`
`20:18.12`	`trashhold`	`Tig1: Thank you very much :)`
`20:18.54`	`*** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@212.98.171.14)`
`20:19.27`	`ceda`	`anyone FSO-ish around?`
`20:19.30`	`*** join/#openmoko bernt (n=bernt@84.61.234.129)`
`20:21.36`	`*** join/#openmoko e-Flex (n=e@90-224-118-96-no111.tbcn.telia.com)`
`20:22.31`	`*** join/#openmoko mr_nice (n=nice@91-65-152-238-dynip.superkabel.de)`
`20:32.38`	`*** join/#openmoko bricode (n=bricode@200.122.185.24)`
`20:33.50`	`Tig1`	`ceda: I have used it if that helps :)`
`20:35.23`	`nyu`	`ceda: they can still play wow with wine. though I think wow is a worse problem than windows in many ways`
`20:35.45`	`ceda`	`Tig1: thanks. I'll see if I can figure out some more on my own first`
`20:36.02`	`ceda`	`nyu: ok and ok`
`20:38.24`	`*** join/#openmoko Xecuter (n=yo@c82C345C1.dhcp.bluecom.no)`
`20:45.58`	`*** join/#openmoko nite613 (n=chris@i216-58-80-207.cybersurf.com)`
`20:46.18`	`*** join/#openmoko RayDar (n=raydar@32.159.58.89)`
`20:47.00`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: hey, are you there?`
`20:47.17`	`cjb`	`hi, yup`
`20:47.33`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: I sent you an email about rotate, did you check it out?`
`20:47.48`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: meanwhile, I took the concept and rewrote it from scratch`
`20:47.50`	`RayDar`	`Please tell me I don't have to "build openmoko from scratch" to compile a "Hello World" program.`
`20:47.53`	`cjb`	`yep! I don't have much time for OM stuff at the moment, but it looked pretty good`
`20:48.02`	`cjb`	`[Rui]__: neat, got a link?`
`20:48.14`	`*** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-088-067-083-041.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`20:48.19`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: yes, it showed up on p.o.o just a couple of hours ago`
`20:48.21`	`LionKMP`	`RayDar: all you need is this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain`
`20:48.25`	`cjb`	`ok`
`20:48.36`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: http://blog.1407.org/2008/09/21/new-rotate-for-openmoko/`
`20:49.12`	`*** join/#openmoko nicfer (n=Administ@168.226.105.19)`
`20:49.12`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: it's still marginally less stable than your original one, but I found out that by reading a full packet at once I got clean results`
`20:49.21`	`*** join/#openmoko Proton23 (n=proton@p57BA74E1.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`20:49.22`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: full set of packets, that is.`
`20:49.24`	`cjb`	`that's odd, I thought I was reading a full packet at once`
`20:49.43`	`cjb`	`I do a single read(2) of seven lines or so, and couldn't get it totally stasble.`
`20:49.49`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: I read 4 packets, and map them to 4 input_events`
`20:49.59`	`[Rui]__`	`x, y, z and syn`
`20:50.13`	`nicfer`	`one question, does the freerunner play vorbis audio files?`
`20:50.21`	`[Rui]__`	`and from my initial test (merely printing out the data) it seemed to be working quite fine!`
`20:50.22`	`lindi-`	`nicfer: that's not a hardware feature`
`20:50.28`	`lindi-`	`nicfer: you decode it in software`
`20:50.36`	`[Rui]__`	`one could even notice patterns of movement just by waving regularly the phone`
`20:50.55`	`lindi-`	`nicfer: so it is not very energy efficient but works`
`20:51.21`	`cjb`	`[Rui]__: cool, I'll try it out`
`20:51.36`	`RayDar`	`LionKMP: Thanks... reading now.`
`20:51.38`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: heh, at your own time ;) thanks for the inspiration`
`20:51.40`	`*** join/#openmoko oramirez (n=oramirez@189.153.196.149)`
`20:51.40`	`nicfer`	`I mean, is it powerful to play them?`
`20:52.09`	`ceda`	`well, that was all for this weekend`
`20:52.21`	`lindi-`	`nicfer: sure`
`20:52.32`	`nicfer`	`what about theora?`
`20:53.04`	`RayDar`	`Is there some doc on how to setup network forwarding from my laptop through the USB to the neo 1973 and out the cellular modem?`
`20:53.15`	`lindi-`	`nicfer: haven't tested but that's quite resource intensive`
`20:53.51`	`ceda`	`RayDar: do you mean that you want access to internet on your laptop via the neo?`
`20:54.03`	`RayDar`	`ceda: Yessir`
`20:54.07`	`LionKMP`	`RayDar: what os? I simply used the mandriva control center's share internet feature. (there is, anyway. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Usb_networking)`
`20:54.26`	`*** join/#openmoko Zoup (n=Zoup@91.98.73.95)`
`20:55.07`	`ceda`	`RayDar: iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -s 192.168.0.200 -d ! 192.168.0.0/24 -j MASQUERADE`
`20:55.11`	`ceda`	`on the neo`
`20:55.17`	`RayDar`	`LionKMP: I already have that working (on Gentoo BTW) -- so that my neo can use my laptop's Internet. I wanna go the other way -- so that my laptop can use my neo's Internet.`
`20:55.23`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: I did notice that both your way of reading packets and mine crash after some time`
`20:55.37`	`ceda`	`RayDar: then "ip route add default via 192.168.0.202" on the laptop/desktop`
`20:55.39`	`LionKMP`	`RayDar: ah, ok, sorry :)`
`20:56.38`	`ceda`	`RayDar: you might need to remove the default gw on the desktop if there was one before (which is most probable)`
`20:57.04`	`ceda`	`I used this on the train som weeks ago. worked like a charm`
`20:57.21`	`RayDar`	`ceda: OK. I will give your commands a try. If they work, I will re-connect to the IRC through my neo....`
`20:57.23`	`cjb`	`[Rui]__: huh, behaving pretty oddly here`
`20:57.36`	`cjb`	`seems like it hangs for five seconds and then does many rotate operations or something`
`20:57.42`	`ceda`	`RayDar: good luck`
`20:58.21`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: maybe something stuck on xrandr?`
`20:58.45`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: I am not very sure about my heuristics for the positions`
`20:58.48`	`cjb`	`maybe.. the console stops updating`
`20:58.59`	`cjb`	`and then it updates very quicklly and does many rotations in a row later`
`20:59.25`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: wow that I haven't noticed`
`20:59.28`	`*** join/#openmoko Cthobs (n=cerebus@fl-76-5-15-225.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)`
`20:59.37`	`[Rui]__`	`is right now trying to improve the heuristics`
`20:59.39`	`RayDar`	`ceda: Thanks... I'll need it.`
`20:59.49`	`cjb`	`ok :)`
`21:00.37`	`ceda`	`RayDar: if you have working internet on the Freerunner first (set up GPRS) and make sure the default goes through gprs/ppp0`
`21:00.37`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: sometimes I noticed that the accelerometer gave weird values`
`21:01.00`	`ceda`	`RayDar: then it should be very simple and cause no troubles`
`21:01.01`	`[Rui]__`	`I had the phone resting on a table, and sometimes it suddenly decided it had another kind of rotation (with a complete set of packets)`
`21:02.21`	`*** join/#openmoko tjikkun (n=tjikkun@195-240-122-237.ip.telfort.nl)`
`21:05.40`	`*** join/#openmoko parodyoflanguage (i=pseudony@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net)`
`21:06.05`	`[Rui]__`	`cjb: I noticed from your email that you're connected to OLPC, I'm a proud contributer to the G1G1 program, myself... but I did had to resort to a proxy :)`
`21:06.29`	`*** join/#openmoko flat (n=bkaplan@c-98-210-154-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`21:09.31`	`*** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009017203.user.veloxzone.com.br)`
`21:14.19`	`trashhold`	`Is there any way to edit xorg.conf so that there is right click emulation?`
`21:14.38`	`*** join/#openmoko ndrs__ (n=andres@89.100.134.85)`
`21:14.52`	`ceda`	`trashhold: there's been a way to hold the pen down to emulate right click`
`21:15.07`	`ceda`	`don't remember what was needed to be done to enable it`
`21:17.16`	`trashhold`	`That's what I need...`
`21:17.42`	`*** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@236-102.dsl.iskon.hr)`
`21:27.25`	`Zoup`	`anyone has experience on head phone jack repair ? :)) https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2019`
`21:31.12`	`*** join/#openmoko georgy_28 (n=georgy@217-117-42-7.teledisnet.be)`
`21:31.23`	`*** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.18.198.85)`
`21:31.23`	`Vegar`	`http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/21/1730256&from=rss`
`21:34.58`	`*** join/#openmoko Kt_ (n=Kirsat@adsl-176-42-223.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`21:35.19`	`trashhold`	`Vegar: If I had FR, I would already have kismet and aircrack installed :) Now I have to bring my laptop with me everywhere to be able to impress girls`
`21:36.17`	`Tig1`	`your laptop would be faster`
`21:38.01`	`trashhold`	`That's true, but I rarely see anyone using WEP anymore, only unsecured networks. So, it won't matter much :)`
`21:41.43`	`*** join/#openmoko chomwitt (n=chomwitt@athedsl-4399532.home.otenet.gr)`
`21:41.48`	`hipitihop`	`morning troops`
`21:42.03`	`kirun`	`The only reason to use WEP is if you have a DS`
`21:42.30`	`TAsn`	`kirun, nah`
`21:42.34`	`TAsn`	`you just install linux for ds`
`21:42.35`	`TAsn`	`;[`
`21:42.38`	`TAsn`	`;]`
`21:44.47`	`trashhold`	`I've seen laptops with cards that do not support WPA (or their owners claim so and couldn't configure them). But for some weird reason, everywhere I go, I see nobody using it. I used to, when I had problem getting WPA with bcm43xx :)`
`21:45.31`	`*** join/#openmoko Pjj (n=pjj@fsf/member/pjj)`
`21:45.59`	`*** join/#openmoko ndrs__ (n=andres@89.100.134.85)`
`21:46.16`	`mjr`	`afaik you could add wpa with driver software, but not positive... Haven't been really interested in those anyway. I use unencrypted wlan and ssh and/or tls for things that matter.`
`21:46.47`	`*** join/#openmoko RayDar (n=raydar@32.159.19.123)`
`21:46.56`	`mjr`	`(afaik also in practice nobody's done wpa for some legacy cards)`
`21:47.05`	`kirun`	`My computer's next to the phone socket, I use a wired connection to the router anyway`
`21:47.35`	`RayDar`	`ceda: I don't have an iptables command on my neo. :(`
`21:47.48`	`mwester`	`uses 28.8 dial-up; so slow don't even need a firewall.`
`21:48.45`	`kirun`	`I hear they have these 33.6 modems these days`
`21:49.32`	`mwester`	`Ah, that's ok. I find it a lot cheaper to let other experiment with that bleeding-edge stuff.`
`21:49.36`	`RayDar`	`used to use the very rare 18K modems -- back before 14.4K was cheap.`
`21:50.27`	`ljp`	`uses morsecode to tap out bits by hand`
`21:50.45`	`TAsn`	`'s first modem was 56k. he was too cheap before that.`
`21:50.53`	`TAsn`	`^^`
`21:51.13`	`trashhold`	`So nobody here's using CPIP?`
`21:51.36`	`Deubeuliou`	`I am trying to change Xterm's font size but I can't succeed using the -fn option: I don't know what do put in that option. I tried several tutos on the web but none helped. (xfontsel is even not packaged for the OM :/)`
`21:51.38`	`mwester`	`uses SNA`
`21:52.00`	`Tig1`	`trashhold: http://www.clubpenguin.com/cpip/ ???`
`21:52.20`	`mjr`	`got in the game with a whopping 300/1200 bps dual rate modem â¡`
`21:52.54`	`trashhold`	`Tig1: No, http://www.blug.linux.no/rfc1149/`
`21:53.35`	`*** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@static-pro-212-101-27-121.adsl.solnet.ch)`
`21:56.57`	`Tig1`	`trashhold: ah 1149 :) I still have to put the website up for our rfc1149 isp, it was announced here : http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2003/04/27/hermits-cave-isp-opens-for-business just after el reg announced theirs which went titsup in a comedy manner :)`
`21:57.25`	`*** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net)`
`21:57.42`	`Tig1`	`ye gods 2003`
`21:58.29`	`Tig1`	`with delivery times like this I should work for OM :P :)`
`22:00.32`	`yabo`	`gah..`
`22:00.36`	`yabo`	`why wont opkg ever work?`
`22:00.42`	`trashhold`	`But would I be able to use this service from OM? :P`
`22:04.29`	`Tig1`	`trashhold: hmm I should push the mobile internet angle then :)`
`22:09.03`	`*** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-16-155.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`22:09.40`	`*** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@host-84-221-254-115.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`22:11.56`	`*** join/#openmoko RayDar (n=raydar@32.159.157.171)`
`22:12.31`	`*** join/#openmoko niklauz (i=d863b241@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4a605cb1a57ffbf9)`
`22:12.32`	`RayDar`	`how do I install iptables`
`22:15.43`	`yabo`	`god opkg is driving me insane!`
`22:16.18`	`Tig1`	`what is it outputting now`
`22:16.22`	`yabo`	`whenever i try to download and install a package, i get "An error occured, return value: -1092662516."`
`22:16.32`	`yabo`	`what can i do?`
`22:16.40`	`Tig1`	`ooo that is a special one`
`22:16.48`	`yabo`	`on qtopia, dns is configured`
`22:17.20`	`Tig1`	`does qtopia have sig files?`
`22:17.38`	`yabo`	`oh yeah, when i try to opkg update`
`22:17.51`	`yabo`	`i get errors when it tries to install the .sigs`
`22:18.13`	`yabo`	`i can pastebin if you like`
`22:18.18`	`Tig1`	`sorry I was trying to find out what the numbers meant :)`
`22:18.25`	`yabo`	`alright`
`22:18.32`	`*** join/#openmoko Tanuva (n=tanuva@e177237085.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`22:19.22`	`RayDar`	`Tig1: The number are described on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Opkg`
`22:19.52`	`niklauz`	`thoughts on neopwn ? (http://www.neopwn.com/)`
`22:22.07`	`yabo`	`niklauz, remote-exploit should release a distro for the openmoko`
`22:22.30`	`Tig1`	`RayDar: well that link suggest and "unknown error"`
`22:23.03`	`RayDar`	`needs to take the time to study "iptables" one of these days.`
`22:23.20`	`yabo`	`no ideas on what i can try?`
`22:23.45`	`Tig1`	`yabo: what are you trying to achieve ?`
`22:24.14`	`Tig1`	`apologies my attention span is very short :)`
`22:24.15`	`yabo`	`install python`
`22:24.33`	`Tig1`	`which image are you using?`
`22:24.36`	`yabo`	`qtopia`
`22:24.49`	`Tig1`	`ah`
`22:25.06`	`Tig1`	`any other image I could help with`
`22:25.13`	`*** join/#openmoko blubs (n=irc@84-75-247-16.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`22:25.17`	`yabo`	`how is debian?`
`22:26.14`	`yabo`	`can you call and send text-messages with debian?`
`22:26.16`	`Tig1`	`I have heard that it is quite good for software but is using the FSO demo app for communications`
`22:26.51`	`Tig1`	`yabo at the moment if you want to use your freerunner as a phone then use qtopia`
`22:27.10`	`*** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au)`
`22:27.15`	`*** join/#openmoko bricode (n=bricode@200.122.185.24)`
`22:27.33`	`yabo`	`alright`
`22:27.37`	`yabo`	`do you know`
`22:27.49`	`yabo`	`if i can download python from python.org and install?`
`22:27.55`	`yabo`	`will that work+`
`22:28.13`	`Tig1`	`probably not unless it is compiled for arm4`
`22:28.31`	`yabo`	`usj.. stupid opkg`
`22:28.45`	`Tig1`	`you might be able to download it and make it work from one of the other images`
`22:29.00`	`yabo`	`2008.9`
`22:29.12`	`yabo`	`is that very unstable and stuff?`
`22:29.19`	`Tig1`	`that might work but you are on your own`
`22:29.53`	`yabo`	`you're using fso?`
`22:30.04`	`Tig1`	`I don't have the qtopia image experience to comment`
`22:30.45`	`Tig1`	`My freerunner is currently running FSO but I am a user not a programmer`
`22:31.13`	`yabo`	`aha`
`22:31.55`	`yabo`	`i want to have a flashy gui, and python + working text-messaging`
`22:31.59`	`Tig1`	`I was running FDOM for a while but it was clunky when it came to being used as a phone`
`22:32.49`	`Tig1`	`yabo: then you need to wait a few months for the framework stuff to really happen`
`22:32.57`	`yabo`	`alright`
`22:33.00`	`TAsn`	`yabo, for a phone i heard qtopia rocks`
`22:33.05`	`TAsn`	`for a dev device, im using fso`
`22:33.11`	`yabo`	`screw the gui then. i want python and text-messaging`
`22:33.15`	`TAsn`	`do what ever you like ;]`
`22:33.46`	`Tig1`	`text on the framework is not fully there imho atm`
`22:33.57`	`TAsn`	`Tig1, yeah.`
`22:34.01`	`TAsn`	`no support for ucs2`
`22:34.07`	`TAsn`	`though he may not need that.`
`22:34.13`	`TAsn`	`if he doesn't`
`22:34.36`	`ljp`	`thinks qtopia is perfectly fine for a dev device`
`22:34.37`	`TAsn`	`all he has to do is wait when a message arrives and move it to the mmc and erase it from the sim iirc.`
`22:34.50`	`TAsn`	`ljp, qtopia isn't the future.`
`22:35.07`	`TAsn`	`furthermore i said nothing about qtopia ;]`
`22:35.13`	`yabo`	`python on Qtopia anyone? halp!`
`22:35.13`	`TAsn`	`<TAsn> yabo, for a phone i heard qtopia rocks`
`22:35.13`	`TAsn`	`<TAsn> for a dev device, im using fso`
`22:35.16`	`nicfer`	`one question, is possible to use a compiler in a freerunner?`
`22:35.26`	`TAsn`	`nicfer, should be.`
`22:35.30`	`TAsn`	`the only Q is why.`
`22:35.32`	`Tig1`	`nicfer: yes`
`22:35.38`	`ljp`	`uh huh`
`22:35.39`	`mjr`	`yeah sure, but you don't want to really`
`22:35.45`	`mjr`	`it's an academic exercise`
`22:36.04`	`*** part/#openmoko \|FiLiP\| (n=Filip@213.219.172.68.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net)`
`22:36.07`	`TAsn`	`gn.`
`22:36.09`	`ljp`	`qtopia certainly has a bigger future now beign owned by the worlds largest phone manufacturer`
`22:36.23`	`Tig1`	`nicfer: you can but it is not going to be as fast as cross compiling on another box`
`22:36.28`	`trashhold`	`ljp: Either then, or its negation.`
`22:36.38`	`trashhold`	`s,then,that,`
`22:36.44`	`trashhold`	`I can't type today`
`22:37.53`	`ljp`	`qtopia is not being negated`
`22:40.51`	`trashhold`	`I meant the negation of your statement. The fact that it's owned by Nokia alone doesn't mean it has bigger future, it could, but it could also mean exacly the opposite.`
`22:41.02`	`yabo`	`im going to install 2008.8`
`22:41.03`	`yabo`	`brb`
`22:41.58`	`trashhold`	`For example, I was afraid of the possible discontinuation of the free versions of Qt and Qtopia, when I first heard about the acquisition.`
`22:42.29`	`ljp`	`we all were`
`22:42.50`	`ljp`	`but everyone thought they bought TT for Qtopia. which isnt really the case`
`22:43.01`	`*** join/#openmoko Pyrasi (n=dan@74-140-180-181.dhcp.insightbb.com)`
`22:44.16`	`mwester`	`is very interested to know what Nokia thinks of Qtopia on a competitor's hardware device`
`22:44.27`	`mwester`	`Hello Mr. ljp.`
`22:44.48`	`mjr`	`Well. I doubt the Neos are on their radar at this point`
`22:44.56`	`mjr`	`or well, radar, sure, but just a small blip`
`22:45.08`	`*** part/#openmoko RayDar (n=raydar@32.159.157.171)`
`22:45.10`	`ljp`	`you think bug Nokia considers small Openmoko a competitor?`
`22:45.16`	`ljp`	`big, not bug`
`22:45.31`	`mjr`	`hands ljp a pair of Freudian slippers`
`22:45.48`	`ljp`	`actually, Qt Software is unique in Nokia, as we have our own customers`
`22:47.21`	`mwester`	`Well, I'd hate for some low-level power-hungry Nokia manager to have a bad day, and issue some order to cease any further work to support the Neo or FT with Qtopia. I've seen managers do silly stuff like that before. :(`
`22:47.46`	`rwhitby`	`the neopwn guys seem to have forgotten that the GT02 wifi can't do packet injection ...`
`22:48.09`	`mwester`	`But on a positive note, how does one submit patches/fixes to Qtopia? The general bug tracker, or do you prefer some other means?`
`22:48.16`	`mjr`	`rwhitby, I saw a mention about them having support for multiple usb wifi sticks, presumably for that purpose...`
`22:48.50`	`ljp`	`well, considering the Neo port was all my idea and my work... they couldnt really stop me from doing it`
`22:49.00`	`rwhitby`	`they also have some FUD on the purchasing page about flashing bootloader being dangerous (they put it in red)`
`22:49.00`	`ljp`	`mwester: bug tracker`
`22:49.12`	`*** join/#openmoko alephnull_ (n=alok@122.167.90.47)`
`22:49.18`	`ljp`	`rwhitby: ya, thats too funny`
`22:49.42`	`rwhitby`	`mjr: ah, yes - their kits have usb wifi dongles`
`22:49.58`	`balrog-k1n`	`didn't openmoko wiki use to have an identical FUD?`
`22:50.09`	`balrog-k1n`	`probably still has`
`22:50.10`	`rwhitby`	`balrog-k1n: for neo1973 it was true`
`22:50.12`	`ljp`	`mwester: they could, but they woudl have one pissed off community developer that is known and likes to blog`
`22:50.37`	`balrog-k1n`	`oh, right, there's a backup bootloader`
`22:50.51`	`mwester`	`ljp: Ok. I'd also like to help in assembling/testing the new stuff, if you are looking for any guinea pigs or assistance.`
`22:50.56`	`rwhitby`	`so anything on OM pages is probably just normal out-of-date wiki stuff, instead of intentional FUD to make you buy neopwn instead of doing it yourself`
`22:51.03`	`Tig1`	`tbh an eee would be more subtle for pentesting`
`22:52.37`	`Tig1`	`otherwise you would be wanging your FR pretending you were ghostbusters for a bit`
`22:52.39`	`mwester`	`thinks using little things like tablets and phones for pen-testing is just plain silly.`
`22:52.49`	`rwhitby`	`but the screenshots show that at least the neopwn guys know what they are doing as far as choice of apps goes. most are probably just mockups menu entries at the moment, but good luck to them.`
`22:53.42`	`rwhitby`	`hmm - actually since it's debian most are probably real`
`22:53.44`	`Tuju`	`dfu-util or bootloader could make a sound when the download is done.`
`22:53.48`	`mwester`	`The professionals would suspect anyone with any type of handheld device; anyone else wouldn't care if you unloaded a full-size laptop and started working.`
`22:53.49`	`Tuju`	`it takes so long time.`
`22:54.23`	`mwester`	`But hey, everyone wants to play "Mr. Secret Agent Man" ;)`
`22:54.50`	`rwhitby`	`heh, on the hardware page they even say that it's unbrickable, but on the other page it's dangerous (in red) to flash :-)`
`22:55.03`	`*** join/#openmoko michelecs (n=michelec@82.85.33.53)`
`22:56.18`	`balrog-k1n`	`a plane could hit your house at the same time you were flashing the bootloader`
`22:56.43`	`trashhold`	`Well, maybe they mean that its unbrickable if you don't flash it? Or they could mean something else by dangerous :)`
`23:06.41`	`*** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@p5B14C349.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`23:10.24`	`*** part/#openmoko Tig1 (n=user@82.153.215.237)`
`23:11.18`	`nicfer`	`hmmm are there any freerunner reseller in Argentina?`
`23:12.10`	`bricode`	`Neopwn seems to be one of the first to offer a specific software stack for the Freerunner...`
`23:14.34`	`Tuju`	`doh, tried to flash again the phone and it doesn't boot.`
`23:14.55`	`Tuju`	`this time i ran i386 version of dfu-util on x86_64 os.`
`23:18.44`	`[Rui]__`	`argh I'm so stupid...`
`23:20.23`	`Pyrasi`	`anyone know an easy way to get rid of the u-boot patch for running debian on the microsd card? I formatted my sd card and dont want to boot off of the sd card anymore....but the nand u-boot continues to try to boot into it by default....even though i have reflashed the nand uboot`
`23:23.49`	`kd8ikt`	`cause it uses env var's that reside elsewhere (not in nand)`
`23:24.06`	`kd8ikt`	`need to get into uboot console and modify the vars`
`23:24.37`	`Pyrasi`	`do you know what var to modify?`
`23:24.55`	`kd8ikt`	`something like default= or somethin you should look around the wiki`
`23:26.20`	`kd8ikt`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader_commands#Environment`
`23:26.49`	`Pyrasi`	`cool...thanks`
`23:29.24`	`lawnjart`	`Hi all I finally got my freerunner working like a daily phone,`
`23:31.35`	`kd8ikt`	`what firmware you using?`
`23:32.30`	`lawnjart`	`FDOM`
`23:33.36`	`kd8ikt`	`suspend?`
`23:34.28`	`kd8ikt`	`i guess thats more of a kernel hicup then firmware`
`23:34.39`	`kd8ikt`	`er rootfs`
`23:34.56`	`kd8ikt`	`really wish that were stable`
`23:35.29`	`*** join/#openmoko donaq (n=darkie@cm86.epsilon54.maxonline.com.sg)`
`23:37.33`	`*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.196.134.191)`
`23:37.59`	`*** part/#openmoko lawnjart (n=scsh@pool-72-87-42-8.ptldor.fios.verizon.net)`
`23:38.40`	`kd8ikt`	`dude this cheap bluetooth headset i baught is annoying wont turn on and the instructions say to let it charge for 10hrs first :P but i wanna play now!`
`23:39.02`	`kd8ikt`	`fricken 10hrs!! gotta be shittin me i think its just DOA`
`23:39.21`	`CVirus`	`what's a DOA ?`
`23:39.28`	`kd8ikt`	`dead on arrival`
`23:39.54`	`kd8ikt`	`can really complain as it was just like 12$`
`23:40.15`	`kd8ikt`	`cheapest bt headset i've ever seen`
`23:41.50`	`kd8ikt`	`receipt says its normaly 30$`
`23:51.14`	`*** join/#openmoko gmaxwell (n=NT4TN@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001)`
`23:52.39`	`gmaxwell`	`So I just installed Om2008.9-gta02-20080916 and it seems to be sitting stuck at a screen with a picture of boots and "booting: 59%" Is this expected?`
`23:52.51`	`gmaxwell`	`oh â¦ sorry it just moved some more.`
`23:53.05`	`kd8ikt`	`patience`
`23:56.10`	`*** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@60-241-37-3.static.tpgi.com.au)`
`23:57.47`	`kd8ikt`	`something i cant grasp with this bt headset`
`23:59.25`	`*** join/#openmoko gregdude (n=imrehg@79-78-128-67.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.