| 00:00.11 | ieatlint | he'll just go stand outside security with a camera to see the hot chicks |
| 00:00.32 | rivalarrival | Not since they shot down my idea for passenger security - If you can get through the metal detector without setting it off, they pull you aside and issue you a handgun. |
| 00:00.34 | *** join/#openmoko Centaur5 (n=fishman@209-33-197-88.dsl.infowest.net) |
| 00:00.53 | *** join/#openmoko avoine (n=avoine@pdpc/supporter/active/avoine) |
| 00:01.04 | ieatlint | i very rarely set those metal detectors off |
| 00:01.11 | SpeedEvil | ponders a screaming 5 year old with a M16. |
| 00:01.45 | ieatlint | they never pull me out for extra security checks either... i guess i don't fit any terrorist profiles, which is funny, since i'm of irish descent |
| 00:02.09 | rivalarrival | Change your name to Abdul McFinnigan. |
| 00:02.11 | Centaur5 | Sorry if this is a very simple question but following the Getting Started instructions on the freerunner it says that when you ssh in over usb just hit enter for password but it says permission denied. |
| 00:02.23 | ieatlint | lol |
| 00:02.35 | SpeedEvil | Centaur5: you're sure you're connected to your FR? |
| 00:02.52 | mmontour | Centaur5: are you sure you're ssh-ing to the right address (and as user 'root')? |
| 00:03.11 | mmontour | Some people use 192.168.0.200 (host pc) instead of 192.168.0.202 (device) |
| 00:03.15 | nullpuppy | huh, wtf. |
| 00:03.19 | doc|work | bricode: hehe, cool, well, only need one order :/ |
| 00:03.24 | nullpuppy | ok, the time is WAY off on this thing. |
| 00:03.25 | nullpuppy | hmm |
| 00:03.36 | Centaur5 | yes, ifconfig on usb0 is 192.168.1.200 |
| 00:03.37 | bricode | doc|work: Tell your friends :) |
| 00:03.43 | doc|work | bricode: just a hint btw, looked at koolu, they were more expensive and weren't offering any extra warranty :/ |
| 00:03.49 | Centaur5 | oh crap, out of habit I did 1.200 instead of 0.200 |
| 00:03.51 | doc|work | bricode: :) |
| 00:04.01 | rivalarrival | Centaur5 FAIL! :-) |
| 00:04.16 | doc|work | bricode: although I think they changed their site since I looked at first |
| 00:04.17 | SpeedEvil | uses the cheesy #!/bin/ash |
| 00:04.17 | SpeedEvil | date `ssh 192.168.0.200 date "+%m%d%H%M%Y.%S"` |
| 00:04.29 | bricode | doc|work: We're at $399. Warranty isn't spelled out as well as it should be, but is 1 yr according to manufacturer. |
| 00:04.41 | Centaur5 | Sorry, that was a stupid error |
| 00:04.42 | doc|work | bricode: and for 10pack? |
| 00:04.51 | bricode | $369/phone. |
| 00:05.06 | bricode | doc|work: before taxes+shipping. |
| 00:05.07 | doc|work | damn, that's a better deal, shame it wasn't set up earlier :/ |
| 00:05.18 | doc|work | bricode: the warranty being the winner there |
| 00:06.25 | ieatlint | my credit card offers a warranty on anything i buy with it... so that's my failsafe |
| 00:06.51 | doc|work | ieatlint: for how long? |
| 00:07.05 | ieatlint | i think 1 year |
| 00:07.22 | doc|work | nice |
| 00:07.25 | doc|work | what acrd? |
| 00:07.27 | doc|work | *card |
| 00:07.38 | ieatlint | i have it on a citibank card and an amex |
| 00:07.51 | doc|work | ah |
| 00:08.06 | doc|work | meh, for how much you pay in fees, we could probably get another 10 pack :) |
| 00:08.15 | ieatlint | lol |
| 00:08.22 | ieatlint | nah, there is no annual fee on either |
| 00:08.38 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@211.84-49-138.nextgentel.com) |
| 00:09.41 | kelvie_work | oh finally.. a shipping notification |
| 00:09.58 | ieatlint | yay, congrats |
| 00:10.18 | kelvie_work | hehe |
| 00:11.05 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@91.184.75.244) |
| 00:12.15 | feitingen | doc|work: your gov't probably wants a 10 pack too |
| 00:13.39 | doc|work | feitingen: the only this government will get one is when they're 10 years old and I'm shoving them up their... oh look, home time! |
| 00:13.45 | Centaur5 | Alright, I changed the IP address and I'm definitely connecting to the openmoko at 192.168.0.200 but it still says permission denied. |
| 00:13.51 | doc|work | bye :) |
| 00:14.03 | ieatlint | Centaur5, your pc is .200 |
| 00:14.06 | ieatlint | the openmoko is 202 |
| 00:14.13 | feitingen | lol |
| 00:14.29 | Centaur5 | ieatlint: Got it, thanks |
| 00:14.52 | feitingen | lol @ doc, that is. |
| 00:15.36 | *** join/#openmoko no7 (n=dk@krlh-5d856a9b.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 00:17.15 | ieatlint | ok, i've finally got all my shit together to go down to the beach and try these gps receivers |
| 00:17.27 | ieatlint | i'll get on irc once i'm there... bb in a few |
| 00:17.29 | rivalarrival | damn, they must be shipping it straight from Sunnyvale to the Cleveland area... It's been on a truck 4 days now. |
| 00:18.19 | kdubois | rivalarrival: mines been on a truck 4 days, stopped in illinois now. somehow they're saying itll be in ann arbor by tomorrow... |
| 00:18.51 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:19.44 | rivalarrival | They can get them moved pretty good - their "Sort" is second to none. |
| 00:22.09 | feitingen | i cant wait until they invent teleports so i can get my mail instantly |
| 00:22.27 | webar7 | bricode: I sent a message to sales@koolu.com today :) |
| 00:22.31 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@90-227-33-55-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 00:22.37 | webar7 | the prices on the site seem wrong? |
| 00:22.49 | bricode | webar7: How so? |
| 00:23.14 | webar7 | it says: $299* PHONE |
| 00:23.14 | webar7 | NEW! 5 PACK AT $384 PER PHONE |
| 00:23.14 | webar7 | 10 PACK AT $369 PER PHONE |
| 00:23.21 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rd9dd480fe8fe 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: |
| 00:23.21 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: ogpsd: Configure GPS to output NAV-POSLLH, NAV-POSUTM and NAV-TIMEUTC |
| 00:23.21 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: Changed message identificaion to class-id pairs because the numbers used for IDs are not unique. |
| 00:23.21 | webar7 | 299? |
| 00:23.27 | SpeedEvil | Look at the * |
| 00:23.32 | webar7 | oh :) |
| 00:23.44 | SpeedEvil | penmoko Freerunner with 25 free Google Apps sign ups or 7 Premier Google Apps sign-ups or combination thereof through the Koolu Referral Program. Register |
| 00:24.02 | *** join/#openmoko Pjj (n=pjj@028-185-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 00:24.17 | bricode | webar7: We're lowering the barrier of entry to those in emerging nations. |
| 00:24.30 | webar7 | ! |
| 00:24.41 | SpeedEvil | bricode: so the pretty coloured cases are cruel lies at the moment? |
| 00:25.01 | rivalarrival | Not for anyone with a can of Krylon! |
| 00:25.26 | bricode | SpeedEvil: Future examples. You can do anything with volume. If you want to buy a 500 pack, I'll make them whatever colour you want. |
| 00:25.42 | SpeedEvil | bricode: in moulded, not painted cases? |
| 00:25.43 | webar7 | I like the idea of a protective cover/glove thing for a "touch screen" phone doubling as keyboard |
| 00:26.24 | bricode | SpeedEvil: That would depend on cost and manufacturing processes. |
| 00:26.41 | SpeedEvil | bricode: idly wondering. I'd really like spare cases for my Neo. |
| 00:26.58 | bricode | SpeedEvil: Right now we're only sourcing complete units. |
| 00:27.03 | webar7 | bricode, what if I drive to your office with the Toronto Asterisk User Group in a rented bus and they all demand: 1) a TAUG meeting on the premises 2) discounts on phones available at the meeting |
| 00:27.11 | SpeedEvil | bricode: yeah - assumed so |
| 00:27.22 | *** join/#openmoko shpedoikal (n=key@cpe-24-28-4-203.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 00:27.29 | cb22 | yay! |
| 00:27.54 | bricode | webar7: Can't do discounts. Margins are rough enough as it is. If you want a cheaper phone, sign up for Google Apps through us. |
| 00:27.54 | webar7 | bricode, :) |
| 00:27.55 | SpeedEvil | webar7: I see no circuit diagram |
| 00:27.56 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 00:28.06 | cb22 | previously my streaming app needed to wait for the whole video to be encoded before it could start the streaming |
| 00:28.20 | webar7 | bricode, ok no discounts .... |
| 00:28.31 | cb22 | as it used http, and http sends content-length headers, so if the file grows, it ignores it |
| 00:28.36 | webar7 | bricode: but can they get the phones in person :) |
| 00:28.45 | SpeedEvil | cb22: nice. |
| 00:28.48 | bricode | webar7: Or buy a 10-pack. |
| 00:28.48 | cb22 | now i had a brainwave, and as a second transport method, i'm using ssh |
| 00:29.00 | cb22 | so ssh <host> cat /videofile | mplayer - |
| 00:29.12 | cb22 | and videofile can be growing, and it works :) |
| 00:29.13 | *** join/#openmoko ieatlint_ (n=ieatlint@m360e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 00:29.20 | webar7 | bricode, does the missisauga location have phones :) |
| 00:29.25 | SpeedEvil | It sort of works. |
| 00:29.33 | SpeedEvil | mplauyer needs to support groiwing files properly. |
| 00:29.34 | webar7 | imagines a massive line up |
| 00:29.34 | kdubois | cb22: clever hack, or you could just run vlc to stream it unicast to your phone |
| 00:30.02 | cb22 | kdubois: normally you cant do that over gprs |
| 00:30.16 | *** join/#openmoko slomo__ (n=slomo@e182126249.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 00:30.16 | cb22 | well ,depends on your provider really |
| 00:30.24 | cb22 | SpeedEvil: indeed |
| 00:30.33 | cb22 | dont even think of seeking |
| 00:31.08 | bricode | webar7: We have stock in Ontario, but do not offer a storefront. |
| 00:31.15 | kdubois | cb22: ah, i thought you were on a lan |
| 00:31.30 | cb22 | kdubois: a lan? where would the fun be in that :) |
| 00:31.36 | webar7 | pulls the car off the highway |
| 00:31.50 | webar7 | ok ... so much for camping out in front the building |
| 00:32.39 | bricode | webar7: Order a phone and you'll have it by the end of the week if you're in Ontario. |
| 00:32.52 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182062138.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 00:33.15 | kdubois | bricode: i dunno about that. its taking 12 days to get to michigan... |
| 00:33.30 | webar7 | I'm getting a personal one ... my boss wouldn't let us buy any because "they don't have cameras" ... a few years back we couldn't buy nokias because "they have cameras" ... :-P |
| 00:33.36 | *** join/#openmoko RenaultR83 (n=Renault@AToulon-151-1-154-7.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 00:33.52 | bricode | kdubois: From California, or Canada? |
| 00:35.01 | kdubois | from california |
| 00:35.08 | nullpuppy | webar7: haha |
| 00:35.39 | webar7 | funny how the IT dept. is less and less knowledgeable about technology and more and more knowledgeable about ITIL type rules for "managing change" and corporate regulation/policy about what you aren't allowed to do with it after they've spent the bazillion and 5 year plan to get the stuff |
| 00:36.04 | ieatlint_ | ok, i'm standing in the open holding my fr vertically from the bottom |
| 00:36.09 | rivalarrival | webar7: Does this surprise you? Some arbitrary reason to deny you the right to spend funds? |
| 00:36.23 | ieatlint_ | nearst object is 100m+ away |
| 00:36.31 | rivalarrival | ~bofh |
| 00:36.32 | apt | [bofh] Bastard Operator From Hell - see http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/ |
| 00:36.39 | ieatlint_ | let's see how long for a lock |
| 00:36.45 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja_ (n=zefanja@drsd-4dbcad6b.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 00:37.05 | rivalarrival | ieatlint_ Did you bring a tent? |
| 00:37.08 | webar7 | rivalarrival, IT - especially big public sector or corporate IT == bofh |
| 00:37.14 | ieatlint_ | nope :P |
| 00:37.26 | rivalarrival | ieatlint_: Well, good luck with that. |
| 00:37.39 | ieatlint_ | not enough battery power to stay the night :P |
| 00:37.45 | rivalarrival | webar7: Everyone can learn from the BOFH. :-) |
| 00:38.22 | rivalarrival | ieatlint_: are you using it now? (For IRC?) |
| 00:38.38 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=bmk789@c-98-223-16-230.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 00:39.06 | bmk789 | has there been any talk of google gears porting to OM? |
| 00:39.15 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 00:39.18 | SpeedEvil | You just then. |
| 00:39.18 | ieatlint_ | no, i'm tethering to my laptop from another phone... tried for a few minutes to get gprs working on it, but pppd kept giving me errors |
| 00:39.30 | cb22 | sweet, my eee has enough power to do the transcoding real time with no problems |
| 00:39.34 | ieatlint_ | "Connect script failed" ... nothing more, and i'm using the same connect script right now on my laptop.. |
| 00:39.46 | rivalarrival | Hmmm. |
| 00:39.49 | rivalarrival | Odd. |
| 00:40.04 | ieatlint_ | yeah, i think it was an ownership issue with the tty device for the gsm modem |
| 00:42.14 | SpeedEvil | Maybe gsmd just has it open |
| 00:42.27 | SpeedEvil | kill that |
| 00:42.30 | bmk789 | does mokomakefile have the new GUI changes? |
| 00:44.47 | ieatlint_ | still not seeing even a single sat with the FR |
| 00:46.26 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint_: :( |
| 00:46.28 | *** join/#openmoko cnwdup_ (n=harlekin@hnvr-4dbd6fbd.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 00:46.50 | ieatlint_ | trying a cold start with another gps i have |
| 00:46.54 | SpeedEvil | Seadog: why'd you want an opamp? |
| 00:46.56 | SpeedEvil | oosp |
| 00:48.04 | nullpuppy | i noticed on the daily builds i was playing with in qemu had some games.. what package(s) provide those? |
| 00:52.20 | ieatlint_ | it sees a sat |
| 00:52.40 | abraxa_ | nullpuppy: oh-puzzles |
| 00:52.59 | ieatlint_ | i had to restart it... 730s in it sees one sat |
| 00:53.20 | abraxa_ | bmk789: "new GUI changes"? |
| 00:54.21 | bmk789 | e17, qt, and such |
| 00:54.35 | webar7 | where is the openmoko "emulator" cd image? |
| 00:55.16 | webar7 | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU ?? |
| 00:55.30 | abraxa_ | bmk789: MokoMakefiles calls it the openmoko-qtopia-x11-image (aka ASU) |
| 00:56.05 | bmk789 | ok, thanks |
| 00:56.52 | *** join/#openmoko fredrin (i=3047@en.ifi.uio.no) |
| 00:58.10 | abraxa_ | webar7: I don't see mention of a CD image there. If you refer to a VMware image, that got never released for... who knows why. An OM employee in .tw made it, though |
| 00:59.09 | ieatlint_ | still sees only 1 sat.. has a 27snr, compared to a 41snr on my other device |
| 01:01.29 | ieatlint_ | my other device took 12min from a cold start |
| 01:02.05 | nullpuppy | hrm, no fix w/ gps :/ |
| 01:02.15 | nullpuppy | agps gives me lots of fails |
| 01:02.34 | nullpuppy | abraxa_: oh-puzzle doesn't work ;) |
| 01:03.24 | feitingen | hm, i just booted my freerunner, and the boots come up AFTER init. |
| 01:06.04 | ieatlint_ | ok, i'm packing up and going home |
| 01:06.13 | abraxa_ | nullpuppy: You forgot the "s" in puzzles ;3 |
| 01:07.10 | nullpuppy | whoops |
| 01:07.12 | nullpuppy | my bad :) |
| 01:07.13 | nullpuppy | thanks |
| 01:07.15 | rivalarrival | fail |
| 01:08.37 | Dave | Who/what are we talking about? |
| 01:08.48 | Dave | oh, the gps being failicious? |
| 01:08.54 | nullpuppy | yup |
| 01:08.56 | Dave | Indeed. |
| 01:09.02 | Dave | Most of the time. |
| 01:09.07 | nullpuppy | using factory shipped fw at the moment |
| 01:09.30 | nullpuppy | how stable do the daily builds tend to be? |
| 01:09.39 | Dave | Not like those homemade freerunners?:P |
| 01:09.54 | Dave | Nully puppy the GTK ones are fine. |
| 01:10.03 | nullpuppy | hehe |
| 01:10.05 | nullpuppy | k |
| 01:12.17 | *** join/#openmoko nubn (n=nubn@82-171-124-207.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 01:15.50 | ieatlint | ok |
| 01:16.09 | ieatlint | i'm thoroughly convinced the gps problem is not antenna related -- at least on my phone |
| 01:16.31 | ieatlint | on the walk back, it peaked its snr to 40 for the one sat it could see... under a large grove of trees, it dropped only to 15 |
| 01:16.35 | Seadog | does anyone know roughly when the software will be stable enough to be used day-to-day? I'm considering buying one around november/october time |
| 01:16.35 | ieatlint | that's decent |
| 01:18.25 | bricode | ieatlint: GPS antenna design perhaps? |
| 01:19.09 | ieatlint | no, i'm saying it's not the antenna |
| 01:19.42 | balrog-kun | Seadog: i don't think anybody knows |
| 01:19.47 | balrog-kun | it was expected last year |
| 01:19.59 | ieatlint | as i understand it, the software side can feed the gps soft location data to assist in getting a lock... but in general, the firmware on the gps device will get a lock completely independent of the software side |
| 01:20.20 | ieatlint | i think it may be an issue with the gps device's firmware, but that is PURE speculation |
| 01:20.27 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: yes |
| 01:20.48 | Seadog | balrog-kun: yeah I saw that, oh well I can wait! |
| 01:20.51 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: why not antenna related? |
| 01:20.55 | *** join/#openmoko djp_ (n=djp@76-10-148-120.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 01:21.17 | ieatlint | SpeedEvil, because when i do see satellites, i get decent signal strength |
| 01:21.32 | ieatlint | it's just seeing them to begin with that's a problem |
| 01:21.38 | tessier | ieatlint: Tonight I am going to buy a torx 6 and open my phone and inspect the GPS antenna connection. |
| 01:22.01 | tessier | ieatlint: My GPS doesn't work at all. I get NMEA data in the log but I'm not sure that means anything. |
| 01:22.11 | tessier | It never gets a fix or registers any signal strength. |
| 01:22.17 | ieatlint | well half the gps antenna connector you can see without opening the case (i mean, with a screwdriver, by opening the back cover) |
| 01:22.48 | ieatlint | it took 730seconds of standing still with my phone held pretty optimally to see one satellite |
| 01:22.55 | balrog-kun | got a T-6 screwdriver with his neo :) |
| 01:22.56 | ieatlint | i waited another 15min, and never saw another |
| 01:23.23 | ieatlint | it could be the gps device's firmware is botching the gps sat data decode |
| 01:23.24 | balrog-kun | unfortunately instead of pouch, stylus and batteries |
| 01:23.52 | SpeedEvil | iratsu: if it's barely picking that one up, ... |
| 01:23.53 | balrog-kun | and guitar pick :( |
| 01:23.55 | SpeedEvil | iea: |
| 01:24.23 | ieatlint | mjr is also quite adamant that it is not an antenna issue, and my own experience seems to support his claim |
| 01:24.40 | ieatlint | (note that it may be a soldering issue on some devices, but not all anyway) |
| 01:24.48 | SpeedEvil | That could be really awkward if it's not. |
| 01:25.12 | SpeedEvil | tessier: just 'blank' NMEA sentances with no fix? |
| 01:25.24 | ieatlint | "Before getting a fix, the GPS spits out lots of "$GPTXT,01,01,01,NMEA unknown msg*58", though these stop once a fix is obtained." |
| 01:25.52 | SpeedEvil | It seems to be once any signal is gotten, however faint. |
| 01:25.58 | nullpuppy | what /dev spits out the NMEA stuff again? |
| 01:26.02 | SpeedEvil | Then it outputs 'normally' |
| 01:26.07 | SpeedEvil | nullpuppy: /dev/ttySAC1 |
| 01:28.13 | tessier | SpeedEvil: Well, I don't know anything about NMEA. I don't know what a sentence with a fix looks like. |
| 01:28.28 | tessier | I'll check it out on the /dev/ttySAC1 later and find some examples to show. |
| 01:29.21 | SpeedEvil | See the GPS article on the wiki |
| 01:29.51 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS |
| 01:30.06 | SpeedEvil | A position without a fix looks like: |
| 01:30.06 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:30.06 | SpeedEvil | One with a fix: |
| 01:30.06 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:30.23 | SpeedEvil | (central scotland) |
| 01:31.02 | nullpuppy | hmm, currently getting stuff like $GPGGA,,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*48 |
| 01:31.06 | nullpuppy | and stuff |
| 01:31.10 | SpeedEvil | YHeah |
| 01:31.15 | ieatlint | 0s and 9s means no fix |
| 01:31.20 | SpeedEvil | that's saying 'I'm a GPS withoout a fix' |
| 01:31.24 | nullpuppy | goes outside for a few |
| 01:34.53 | Dave | :) |
| 01:35.15 | *** join/#openmoko ljp (n=lpotter@218.185.108.156) |
| 01:37.18 | nullpuppy | same results :/ |
| 01:37.45 | *** join/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@210.13.121.62) |
| 01:37.48 | *** join/#openmoko hari (n=hklein@i59F76AC8.versanet.de) |
| 01:38.25 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrod (n=Crfrod@208.65.61.50) |
| 01:38.35 | ieatlint | woe is us |
| 01:38.41 | ChandleWEi | how to set clock? |
| 01:39.13 | nullpuppy | i used rdate |
| 01:39.26 | nullpuppy | requires net access though |
| 01:40.01 | ChandleWEi | nullpuppy: I change my time in terminal ,bu my gui home time never change |
| 01:40.17 | nullpuppy | wierd. mine updated |
| 01:40.31 | ChandleWEi | nullpuppy: I also can net access |
| 01:41.07 | aevin | ChandleWEi: timezone issues? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Timezone |
| 01:41.22 | ChandleWEi | aevin: thx |
| 01:44.59 | *** join/#openmoko MTrevi (n=3v1n0@host8-246-static.12-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 01:45.09 | ChandleWEi | aevin: great , thx again |
| 01:45.57 | aevin | np. someone else wrote it. |
| 01:47.29 | ieatlint | okay, i managed to do something interesting at least |
| 01:48.42 | ieatlint | managed to switch it to binary mode or something |
| 01:48.54 | ieatlint | it's outputing data in binary, hehe |
| 01:49.35 | ChandleWEi | how to set install calendar, I opkg list|grep calendar never get anything |
| 01:53.15 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 01:53.24 | *** join/#openmoko aggtrfrad (n=aggtrfra@CPE001346891e81-CM0018c0d9db72.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:54.09 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@203-214-104-29.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:55.50 | *** join/#openmoko benlake (n=benlake@c-98-201-153-180.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 01:56.10 | benlake | got his FreeRunner |
| 01:56.21 | benlake | hail folks |
| 01:56.29 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 01:56.45 | benlake | just the person I wanted to see :P |
| 01:56.49 | Dave | :D |
| 01:56.54 | benlake | or Dave, you are both quite useful |
| 01:56.59 | benlake | even better! |
| 01:57.18 | Dave | hehe |
| 01:57.23 | Dave | What can we do for you, Benlake? :) |
| 01:57.48 | benlake | wonders why his FR wont power back on |
| 01:57.51 | benlake | :? |
| 01:58.03 | benlake | I am trying to connect to it via serial USB |
| 01:58.11 | benlake | but I have apparently broked it! |
| 01:58.27 | nullpuppy | is it charged? |
| 01:58.32 | benlake | yeppers |
| 01:58.41 | benlake | I see the device |
| 01:58.54 | Dave | OH |
| 01:58.57 | benlake | does it have to be in "Set console to USB" to respond? |
| 01:59.15 | benlake | I've tried minicom and "screen /dev/tty.usbmodem5b141 115200,cs7,-ixon" |
| 01:59.19 | Dave | Have you tried disconnecting it from usb, and letting it sit five or so minutes and then attempting to power it back on as normal? |
| 01:59.29 | benlake | I have not |
| 01:59.36 | Dave | Try that :) |
| 01:59.36 | benlake | shout I shut it down, then disconnect it? |
| 01:59.43 | Dave | eh, it's on now? |
| 01:59.45 | benlake | aye |
| 01:59.50 | Dave | oh, what the |
| 01:59.55 | Dave | I thought you said it wouldn't power on? |
| 02:00.18 | benlake | it was on, then I logged in to IRC and it has dimmed the screen |
| 02:00.27 | benlake | wasn't waking up but I heard clicks in the speaker |
| 02:00.35 | Dave | okay... so what exactly are you saying? :D |
| 02:00.40 | benlake | held aux and power for 5 seconds and got the boot menu |
| 02:00.42 | Dave | I'm not sure I understand the situation. :) |
| 02:01.01 | benlake | hehe, ok well before THAT happened it was on and taking calls and generally being a stunna |
| 02:01.19 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 02:01.22 | benlake | then I wanted to USB serial that bad boy and get to hax0ring |
| 02:01.35 | benlake | but haven't been able to connect serial wise |
| 02:01.39 | benlake | via USB. |
| 02:02.01 | Dave | ssh? |
| 02:02.09 | benlake | minicom/screen |
| 02:02.19 | benlake | serial device |
| 02:02.41 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack_ (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5e770.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 02:03.04 | Dave | okay |
| 02:03.45 | benlake | I tried putting it in "set console to usb" but right after I hit power, it says "hit aux to return to boot menu" and then goes back to the boot menu |
| 02:03.58 | Dave | oh, ick |
| 02:04.20 | benlake | I'm guessing it should stay there a bit longer |
| 02:04.27 | benlake | should I even bother with that? |
| 02:06.22 | aggtrfrad | what about wifi packet ingection? are there any drivers for gta2? |
| 02:07.41 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 02:07.45 | SpeedEvil | Not supported. |
| 02:07.59 | *** join/#openmoko ancient123 (n=ancient1@c-68-42-37-37.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 02:09.01 | ancient123 | does anyone here have experience with the ublox agps script ? |
| 02:11.06 | swc|666 | aggtrfrad: use an external USb card |
| 02:11.11 | benlake | hmm, mac turned off USB ports. note to self, don't reboot FR while connected to USB. |
| 02:12.08 | *** join/#openmoko KrisAbsinthe_ (n=Kris3563@cpe-24-210-164-205.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 02:12.18 | swc|666 | aggtrfrad, hopefully (but doubtfully) atheros will open up some of the firmware |
| 02:13.33 | benlake | no thoughts Dave? |
| 02:13.38 | benlake | SpeedEvil? |
| 02:13.55 | aggtrfrad | oh so thats the problem? atheros did not release firmware for latest cheapsets? ah sucks |
| 02:14.05 | SpeedEvil | aggtrfrad: yes |
| 02:14.13 | swc|666 | aggtrfrad, closed source |
| 02:14.18 | SpeedEvil | aggtrfrad: though it isn't a latest chipset AIUI |
| 02:14.39 | benlake | brb |
| 02:15.29 | swc|666 | aggtrfrad, i've built a kernel to support my alfa awus036b on a debian arm microsd install (w/powered hub)... all i need is my FR now (tomorrow) |
| 02:17.14 | swc|666 | here is a question... is there truth to this? - when the battery of the FR runs all the way down you have to use another battery to get it to boot again while plugged in(?) |
| 02:17.25 | *** join/#openmoko jeffszusz (n=jeffsz@d57-109-198.home.cgocable.net) |
| 02:17.33 | swc|666 | then swap the 2nd battery with the dead one* |
| 02:17.35 | swc|666 | ? |
| 02:18.16 | Dave | yep |
| 02:19.33 | swc|666 | good to know i suppose |
| 02:19.54 | SpeedEvil | Battery life at teh moment is very much a work in progress. Currently suspend is broken, so you get 6-12 hours depending on what's on. The hardware appears capable of doing a week standby, with 20 hours mp3, and 5 hours+ talk time. |
| 02:20.10 | SpeedEvil | It should eventually get better on very low battery too. |
| 02:21.57 | swc|666 | SpeedEvil, i c... i'd love to find a higher mA battery for it in the interim |
| 02:22.23 | swc|666 | none of those nokia ones on the wiki are better tho |
| 02:24.41 | SpeedEvil | Battery life will improve over time. |
| 02:27.07 | *** join/#openmoko ambroff (n=ambroff@c-71-197-85-109.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:27.54 | *** join/#openmoko seeker_ (n=chatzill@unlim-12.vpn.tomsk.net) |
| 02:30.30 | *** join/#openmoko _newbie3 (n=kvirc@dslb-084-063-024-003.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 02:34.48 | trix | 5+ hours talk time is wonderful, great for being on hold with the service provider to find out about those mystery charges that've appeared on the bill |
| 02:35.26 | *** join/#openmoko fidiot (n=jason@adsl-99-132-113-188.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:41.41 | linuxxr | WHICH PROVIDER? |
| 02:41.49 | linuxxr | Ssorry |
| 02:42.23 | trix | sprint, though that won't be a problem with gsm |
| 02:42.36 | *** join/#openmoko jeremychang (n=jeremy_c@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 02:42.37 | ieatlint | i just realised that when i connect to a wireless network, ANYONE on the network can ssh to my phone and login as root |
| 02:42.58 | linuxxr | killler |
| 02:43.00 | ancient123 | ... |
| 02:43.13 | linuxxr | awc666 |
| 02:43.15 | ancient123 | ieatlint, that better be fixed before i go to defcon o.O |
| 02:43.19 | linuxxr | swc666 |
| 02:44.05 | SpeedEvil | ancient123: or at least pull out your SIM :) |
| 02:44.06 | ieatlint | yeah, i somehow assumed all along that the sshd on the phone automatically binded to 192.168.0.202 and not a generic * |
| 02:44.33 | ancient123 | SpeedEvil, not a problem my sim doesn't work right now anyways xD |
| 02:44.46 | ancient123 | nor does my GPS for that matter.... even with assist |
| 02:44.50 | SpeedEvil | Add a /etc/issue, and a user account |
| 02:44.58 | trix | can you get service activated / set up before having the freerunner in hand? |
| 02:46.54 | SpeedEvil | trivex`: phone service? |
| 02:46.57 | SpeedEvil | trix: |
| 02:46.58 | trix | yeah |
| 02:47.07 | SpeedEvil | trix: sure - all you need is a SIM |
| 02:47.16 | SpeedEvil | trix: in some markets, this is hard to get. |
| 02:47.27 | linuxxr | i assume i can take the sim from anlg an put it in the freerunner |
| 02:47.34 | SpeedEvil | trivex`: for me, I can buy a prepaid SIM for $1, or $0 from some provicders. |
| 02:47.43 | linuxxr | from a lg |
| 02:47.44 | SpeedEvil | linuxxr: anlg? |
| 02:47.50 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 02:47.53 | linuxxr | an LG |
| 02:48.09 | linuxxr | at^t lg phone |
| 02:48.13 | SpeedEvil | linuxxr: yes. - if it's the right frequency band - the Freerunner - and there aren't any issues with your SIM |
| 02:48.17 | trix | speedevil, ah cool. i'm just excited to have it in hand, but since i don't have gsm service right now (though i do have an old at&t sim card) i was curious if i'd be able to get service before having the actual phone |
| 02:48.18 | linuxxr | am i wrong? |
| 02:48.42 | trix | it'd be nice to take it out of the box and make a phone call without all that provider noise |
| 02:49.10 | SpeedEvil | You can swap it round. |
| 02:49.23 | *** join/#openmoko benlake (n=benlake@c-98-201-153-180.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 02:49.27 | SpeedEvil | between phones without telling the company. |
| 02:50.15 | SpeedEvil | swap SIMs. |
| 02:50.27 | trix | does the freerunner come with a sim card? |
| 02:50.28 | rivalarrival | Does the GSM standard send the IMEI, etc. back to the operator? |
| 02:50.33 | SpeedEvil | trix: no |
| 02:50.37 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: yes |
| 02:50.58 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: in principle, a provider can whitelist only their phones. |
| 02:51.05 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: but none seem to. |
| 02:51.06 | trix | ok..so i might be able to get this old sim card i have here activated w/ service without having the phone with me? |
| 02:51.15 | SpeedEvil | trix: you might. |
| 02:51.30 | trix | thanks for the info speedevil |
| 02:51.44 | SpeedEvil | trix: I don't know about your provider, for me it's much easier. |
| 02:52.10 | trix | it'd be at&t, alltel or tmobile here..whoever i can get the best deal through |
| 02:52.20 | Arg0naut | trying to get wlan going but when trying dhcp i get "run-parts: /etc/udhcpc.d/99avahi-autoipd exited with return code 1" |
| 02:53.36 | Dave | ah |
| 02:53.37 | benlake | I'm fuzzy on what state the phone should be in to connect to it via USB serial |
| 02:54.02 | SpeedEvil | benlake: for the GTA01 - you press and hold AUX after power on. |
| 02:54.09 | SpeedEvil | benlake: for GTA02 - I'm unsure. |
| 02:54.13 | benlake | oh and has anyone been told their phone hums by a call receiver? |
| 02:54.53 | benlake | SpeedEvil: did the gta01 have a bootloader? |
| 02:55.00 | SpeedEvil | benlake: usb-serial is connectable when the boot menu is visible |
| 02:55.10 | benlake | ah ok |
| 02:55.13 | SpeedEvil | And the lsusb entry changes then |
| 02:55.16 | benlake | let me try again |
| 02:58.21 | benlake | sweet |
| 02:58.52 | benlake | oh sob, it turned off |
| 02:59.00 | ancient123 | have many other people in here had problems with the GPS ? |
| 02:59.10 | SpeedEvil | ancient123: quite a few unfortunately. |
| 02:59.18 | ancient123 | >.< |
| 02:59.32 | ancient123 | and im guessing sim cards has been the other issue? |
| 02:59.58 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Howto_Test_Your_GPS_with_agpsui |
| 03:00.04 | ancient123 | shakes his fist at his treo 650 ... I THOUGHT I WAS FINALLY RID OF YOU! |
| 03:00.09 | SpeedEvil | It's an issue for a few - I'mnot really sure. |
| 03:00.14 | tessier | ancient123: My GPS doesn't work. My AT&T SIM does. |
| 03:00.29 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems |
| 03:00.31 | tessier | just returned from Home Depot with a $19 tool set because that is the only thing they had which had a Torx 6 screwdriver in it |
| 03:00.35 | benlake | t-mobile SIM works for me |
| 03:02.10 | ancient123 | SpeedEvil, ive had mine sat at my window for an hour... i live in new mexico... there is nothing in the way of the sky and im picking up nothing :'( |
| 03:02.56 | ancient123 | i even tried the ublox stuff to try and bootstrap it to no avail (although that did get me to install the dev environment finally) |
| 03:03.03 | SpeedEvil | Some windows are not transparent to GPS |
| 03:03.06 | benlake | rebooted the moko while plugged in again |
| 03:03.10 | benlake | frak! |
| 03:03.50 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 03:04.00 | ancient123 | snickers at benlake |
| 03:04.09 | SpeedEvil | If your windows have been replaced/installed in the last 20 years or so, they may well be coated in such a way to not let GPS in. |
| 03:04.23 | ancient123 | new house |
| 03:04.26 | ancient123 | so prolly >.< |
| 03:04.30 | SpeedEvil | (or out) |
| 03:04.30 | Dave | or EZ-pASS |
| 03:04.45 | SpeedEvil | However, it could also be that your GPS is broken. |
| 03:04.56 | Dave | YES IT COULD. |
| 03:04.57 | Dave | :( |
| 03:05.31 | *** part/#openmoko fidiot (n=jason@adsl-99-132-113-188.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:05.37 | *** join/#openmoko couretca (n=Renault@86.197.194.45) |
| 03:05.39 | SpeedEvil | Dave: one only of your GPSs is broken? |
| 03:06.16 | Dave | Yes. |
| 03:06.24 | Dave | Only one, it would seem. |
| 03:06.30 | Dave | Though I have about forty others which are untested. |
| 03:06.36 | Dave | :) |
| 03:06.58 | *** join/#openmoko tunys (n=tuna@unaffiliated/t00na) |
| 03:07.25 | ancient123 | hmm well time to wander out side for a few i guess |
| 03:07.57 | *** join/#openmoko Chocky_ (n=peter@cpe-76-176-123-40.san.res.rr.com) |
| 03:08.48 | Dave | GPS testing, I presume. |
| 03:08.52 | Chox | wut |
| 03:09.04 | *** join/#openmoko nigel_c (n=nigel_c@mail.crca.org.au) |
| 03:09.04 | Chox | Dave, etc. |
| 03:09.20 | SpeedEvil | It's a cunning plot to get linux users to go outside! |
| 03:09.25 | Chox | yes |
| 03:09.27 | Dave | hahaha |
| 03:09.29 | ancient123 | yep... if getting a fix sucks this much then im gonna hate taos come winter time |
| 03:09.49 | Chox | I hate IM too |
| 03:10.03 | ieatlint | screw outside... i just put mine near a big window |
| 03:10.04 | Dave | haha |
| 03:10.16 | ieatlint | running gpsd over wifi so i'm sitting at my desktop reading the data |
| 03:10.20 | CVirus | LOL @ SpeedEvil |
| 03:10.25 | ieatlint | 10010 seconds and counting ... nothing |
| 03:10.37 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r5aaa5b5a88b3 10/otapi/ (2 files in 2 dirs): otapi: add org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.GetHomeZones() -> a(iii), for retrieving the homezone coordinates from the SIM card. |
| 03:10.45 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r68d6d36d0d56 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: add org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.GetHomeZones() -> a(iii), retrieves home zone coordinates in Gauss-Krueger format |
| 03:10.45 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r31af10560104 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO]: enable cell broadcasts for home zone |
| 03:10.46 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rfbffe473dcb3 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/parser.py: ogsmd: make the new parser more forgiving wrt. spec violations |
| 03:10.48 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r6b918819df48 10/ (ChangeLog framework/subsystems/ogsmd/objects.py): ogsmd: update ChangeLog |
| 03:10.52 | CVirus | CIA-46: fuck you |
| 03:11.30 | Dave | :S |
| 03:11.31 | Dave | :D |
| 03:12.06 | *** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@i59F76AC8.versanet.de) |
| 03:12.51 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:14.33 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213.152.39.89) |
| 03:16.26 | *** join/#openmoko netx303 (n=rlange@horus.darkempire.org) |
| 03:18.30 | *** part/#openmoko seg|ars (n=seg|ars@adsl-67-123-205-241.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 03:18.41 | ancient123 | nadda |
| 03:18.43 | ancient123 | :( |
| 03:19.05 | ancient123 | i have a cellphone with gps... that cant make calls or use gps... |
| 03:19.21 | ancient123 | it has a gimped out linux console though ^.^ |
| 03:19.56 | *** join/#openmoko sitwon (n=adam@pool-71-178-11-192.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:20.06 | Dave | :P |
| 03:20.07 | Dave | yep |
| 03:20.08 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=woot@dsl-67-55-13-241.acanac.net) |
| 03:20.11 | *** part/#openmoko aggtrfrad (n=aggtrfra@CPE001346891e81-CM0018c0d9db72.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 03:21.35 | ancient123 | i am here http://www.wunderground.com/US/NM/Albuquerque/KAEG.html |
| 03:21.41 | *** join/#openmoko benlake (n=benlake@c-98-201-153-180.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 03:22.07 | ancient123 | new mexico.. where scattered clouds mean a high chance to rain *eyeroll* |
| 03:22.08 | notserpe | where can I find some latest/recent GTA01 images? |
| 03:23.11 | Arg0naut | so i tried flashing ASU on to the phone now it freezes at the openmoko splash screen, any suggestions? |
| 03:23.38 | tessier | Ok, I finally got my phone open. The GPS antenna connector looks fine. It goes in with a click. |
| 03:23.42 | tessier | The solder joints look good. |
| 03:24.11 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 03:24.51 | Arg0naut | anybody? |
| 03:25.09 | sitwon | Arg0naut: try flashing again |
| 03:25.17 | sitwon | Arg0naut: or flash a different image |
| 03:25.23 | benlake | My FR keeps shutting down if I let it sit on the boot screen after 60 seconds |
| 03:25.39 | benlake | even if I connect to it via USB serial.. How do I stop that? |
| 03:25.41 | SpeedEvil | benlake: you may need to keep pressing aux occasionally |
| 03:25.47 | mmontour | there's a boot_menu_timeout environment variable that you can set |
| 03:25.50 | benlake | every 60 seconds? |
| 03:25.54 | SpeedEvil | benlake: there is alos a setting you can set in the environemtn |
| 03:26.28 | benlake | ah, what shell am I in when I'm in USB serial? |
| 03:26.48 | SpeedEvil | uboot |
| 03:26.54 | sitwon | benlake: it's uboot, check the wiki for commands |
| 03:27.11 | benlake | I don't want to connect it again until I know what's up because when it powers down my mac turns off the USB port. It does that when there is funky voltage, I've zapped it before |
| 03:27.18 | benlake | will do |
| 03:27.21 | benlake | thanks |
| 03:27.27 | mmontour | wiki "Bootloader_environment" |
| 03:28.04 | benlake | thanks |
| 03:29.16 | tessier | During the phone bootup when kernel messages are scrolling like mad I noticed this: |
| 03:29.20 | tessier | CRCFAIL 0x1a3d |
| 03:29.32 | tessier | That appears half a dozen times or so. I that norma? |
| 03:29.44 | *** join/#openmoko mcoram (n=mcoram@HR-mcoram-1208378673.Stanford.EDU) |
| 03:29.53 | mwester | One wouldn't think so, but nobody seems alarmed too much... |
| 03:30.41 | tessier | mwester: You've seen it too? |
| 03:31.28 | *** join/#openmoko rtm (n=rtm@pool-151-199-61-168.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:31.39 | *** join/#openmoko mmaestri (i=c9fe5c3d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8eed09f664bae1a1) |
| 03:31.59 | SpeedEvil | I think it's a soft-error from the NAND |
| 03:32.14 | notserpe | someone refresh my memory is there anything different between an openmoko-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 and an OpenMoko-openmoko-image-glibc blah blah in the same dir on the snapshots website? they are same size and same date. |
| 03:32.19 | SpeedEvil | these should be correctable automatically' |
| 03:32.59 | mmontour | notserpe: no difference, the shorter name is a symlink to the other one (at least it was the last time I looked) |
| 03:33.28 | notserpe | tnx |
| 03:33.47 | benlake | is boot_menu_timeout in seconds? |
| 03:33.51 | ancient123 | i am highly amused that the media player will play mp3 but not flac... i have yet to try ogg though |
| 03:33.52 | notserpe | is 2007.11 the newest official? |
| 03:34.24 | notserpe | sorry, I've been out of the loop for about 6 months. |
| 03:35.06 | tessier | The time on my freerunner is always wrong. Isn't it supposed to get it from the gsm network? |
| 03:35.41 | SpeedEvil | tessier: not implemented yet |
| 03:35.55 | tessier | ah...well...is there an ntp client available? |
| 03:36.24 | notserpe | what firmware rev is shipping on the freerunner? |
| 03:37.11 | *** join/#openmoko Tanuva (n=tanuva@e177228227.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 03:37.24 | ieatlint | notserpe, 2007.2 .. as release in april 2008 |
| 03:37.40 | sitwon | tessier: opkg install ntp |
| 03:37.49 | sitwon | make sure you set the correct timezone |
| 03:38.23 | ieatlint | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Latest_Images talks about the images (briefly) and http://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ holds the "stable" 2007.2 release that it ships with |
| 03:38.34 | Dave | opkg install cellphone |
| 03:39.47 | notserpe | wow. how stable is the neo/freerunner at this point? |
| 03:40.01 | tessier | ieatlint: When would I ever have to actually flash a new image as opposed to doing an opkg upgrade? |
| 03:40.32 | ieatlint | tessier, i dunno... at the very least, i imagine a kernel upgrade would require a flash |
| 03:40.34 | sitwon | notserpe: well mine hasn't tried to cut it's wrists if that's what you mean... |
| 03:40.36 | notserpe | basically what is a good image to put on my GTA01v4? |
| 03:40.49 | tessier | ieatlint: I did an opkg upgrade and it seemed to download the kernel and flash it itself. |
| 03:41.06 | ieatlint | well then, aren't you special |
| 03:41.08 | ieatlint | :P |
| 03:41.14 | tessier | I guess I am! :) |
| 03:41.18 | ieatlint | i dunno, i'm just a user |
| 03:41.31 | tessier | Me too. I just got my phone yesterday. |
| 03:41.35 | notserpe | sitwon: I've just sat down about 15 minutes ago to get caught up abit on openmoko. Haven't been following it much since I've been way too busy since last september. |
| 03:41.39 | tessier | I've already taken it apart and installed a bunch of software. |
| 03:42.45 | notserpe | are there buildhost daily changelogs someplace? |
| 03:42.58 | ancient123 | i have to say the "boot" screen on the daily image is rather interesting |
| 03:43.02 | ieatlint | impressively, there doesn't seem to be changelogs :( |
| 03:43.37 | notserpe | so is there any point in flashing my 1973 in an effort to actually use it on a trip in the next 2 weeks? last time I checked, dialer wasn't working... I'm assuming things have impressed. |
| 03:43.40 | notserpe | er improved. |
| 03:43.43 | tessier | scp's mp3's onto his freerunner |
| 03:44.06 | sitwon | notserpe: the dialer works now |
| 03:44.14 | ieatlint | notserpe, well, the dialer works fine on my gta02 with essentially the same software |
| 03:44.31 | ieatlint | if you want usability, check out the qtopia images up there... they give you pretty decent sms and telephony |
| 03:44.33 | notserpe | sitwon what image you running? |
| 03:45.35 | sitwon | notserpe: right now, the latest from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ |
| 03:45.45 | notserpe | on a freerunner? |
| 03:45.52 | sitwon | openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2 |
| 03:46.00 | sitwon | yea |
| 03:46.14 | sitwon | I've also tried the Qtopia image, it's pretty impressive |
| 03:48.01 | notserpe | I'm gonna see how bad the bleeding is with the latest snapshot of qtopia then. |
| 03:48.54 | notserpe | wow, I totally missed that whole nokia/trolltech gpl thing last month. |
| 03:51.07 | *** join/#openmoko tenzind (n=tenzin@dns.moic.gov.bt) |
| 03:51.26 | ieatlint | is this a good apm message? "Off-line, battery status critical" :P |
| 03:52.32 | kd8ikt | tessier: how long does it take so save one file |
| 03:52.41 | kd8ikt | to save one* |
| 03:53.40 | tessier | kd8ikt: Save? Practically instantly. It's writing to flash. Just a few seconds to copy a file over. 500KB/s. |
| 03:54.07 | kd8ikt | sdcard? |
| 03:54.47 | ieatlint | the asu displeases me |
| 03:55.01 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=charlie@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 03:55.04 | *** part/#openmoko charlie137 (n=charlie@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 03:55.10 | rtm | ieatlint: Why so? |
| 03:55.44 | ieatlint | its ui is clunky, the settings are inaccessible |
| 03:56.00 | ieatlint | it doesn't have gsmd, so no libgsm-tool |
| 03:56.33 | cjb | notserpe: think I missed it too. what's that? |
| 03:58.55 | rtm | ieatlint: I will forgive anything like that if some group of people developes a stack that actually makes the Freerunner work as a phone. Reliably, For at least 24 hours between charges. Until that happens, the whole thing is just a hobby. |
| 03:59.30 | ieatlint | true |
| 03:59.57 | linuxxr | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:00.22 | ieatlint | although the settings thing is pretty annoying |
| 04:00.35 | ieatlint | if you go into the settings, select modules...there's a whole bunch of things that won't open |
| 04:01.31 | tessier | Yeay! mplayer can find and play my mp3's |
| 04:01.34 | tessier | Now to try a movie... |
| 04:01.59 | Chox | hah |
| 04:02.16 | Chox | might need to use mplayer for that :p |
| 04:02.25 | cjb | it would be interesting to see a "qtopia status" wiki page |
| 04:02.35 | cjb | that labels all of the things that get in the way of using it as a primary phone |
| 04:02.37 | Dave | no kidding :) |
| 04:02.37 | linuxxr | too much stuff in mplayer? |
| 04:02.41 | cjb | and links them to their Trac bugs |
| 04:02.46 | Dave | hah |
| 04:02.46 | cjb | and crosses them off when they're fixed |
| 04:03.04 | cjb | does anyone have a couple of bugs we could get the page started with? |
| 04:03.42 | ieatlint | cjb, no gps support |
| 04:03.48 | tessier | Chocky: I have mplayer installed. That is how I played the mp3 |
| 04:04.21 | tessier | gps problems, getting time from gsm not implemented, 802.11 not automatically setup, lots of things to work on. ;) |
| 04:04.39 | cjb | ieatlint: huh. any idea what's missing? mainly gpsd? |
| 04:04.48 | cjb | if so, who would take a patch to add gpsd to that build? |
| 04:04.54 | tessier | Also power management seems a bit weird. |
| 04:04.56 | ieatlint | no, the device isn't there when i looked for it |
| 04:05.00 | ieatlint | no ttySAC1 |
| 04:05.07 | cjb | oh. maybe you didn't install the kernel modules? |
| 04:05.30 | tessier | crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 204, 65 Apr 26 08:26 /dev/ttySAC1 |
| 04:05.34 | tessier | The device is there for me. |
| 04:05.43 | tessier | Running a default image and tangogps installed |
| 04:05.44 | ieatlint | interesting |
| 04:05.50 | ieatlint | then nevermind |
| 04:06.37 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 04:06.57 | ieatlint | i'm installing the qtopia from yesterday now |
| 04:07.00 | ieatlint | will see |
| 04:07.11 | cjb | does the phone work okay in qtopia? |
| 04:07.23 | ieatlint | yeah, sms, telephony work fine |
| 04:07.25 | Chox | I just did opkg upgrade :p |
| 04:07.28 | ieatlint | and it has the best input methods |
| 04:07.31 | ieatlint | by far the best |
| 04:07.35 | cjb | that's pretty cool |
| 04:07.39 | cjb | sounds like most people should use that, then? |
| 04:08.06 | ieatlint | well, that's what the asu is supposed to be about... merging the openmoko and qtopia stuffs |
| 04:09.07 | ieatlint | does qtopia have any webbrowser? i seem recall hearing that 4.4 will have one, but can we even install another browser at the moment? (eg, minimo) |
| 04:09.16 | Chox | yes |
| 04:09.17 | Chox | and yes |
| 04:10.05 | *** join/#openmoko saurabh1403 (n=saurabhg@59.178.52.93) |
| 04:11.39 | *** join/#openmoko mmaestri (i=c9fe5c3d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b8ce8828743b85fd) |
| 04:14.33 | tessier | hmm...can the mplayer in the repo not play ogg theora? |
| 04:14.41 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 04:18.56 | ieatlint | here's a qtopia image issue... the ability to boot into it without issue |
| 04:19.45 | ieatlint | every time i start it, qpe fucks up and i have to ssh in and restart it |
| 04:20.35 | linuxxr | http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20080714/tc_pcworld/148356;_ylt=AiotyQnX6sYmvIAjzBLhXheor7oF |
| 04:20.43 | linuxxr | justincase |
| 04:21.22 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 04:21.40 | linuxxr | u might need something like this |
| 04:22.40 | linuxxr | my freerunner is being held hostage i fear |
| 04:23.04 | tessier | mplayer seems like it needs some work too |
| 04:23.22 | tessier | Playing an mpeg video the screen goes black, mplayer is using 14% cpu, and nothing happens. |
| 04:23.27 | tessier | I have to ssh in and kill mplayer |
| 04:23.44 | tessier | When playing an ogg-theora I can get the audio after a long wait but no video and the screen stays normal. |
| 04:28.09 | ieatlint | tessier, try running mplayer from the ssh session to see any errors/info |
| 04:28.16 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@75-101-10-86.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 04:28.21 | ieatlint | type "export DISPLAY=:0.0" first though |
| 04:28.35 | ieatlint | (then, any gui app run in that ssh session will show up on the FR's screen) |
| 04:28.50 | tessier | ah, good idea |
| 04:30.08 | tessier | Are bluetooth headsets working yet? |
| 04:30.15 | tessier | The wiki says no but some of this info is out of date |
| 04:30.29 | tessier | As there is now an applet to power on bluetooth |
| 04:30.35 | ieatlint | uhm, i tried it earlier in 2007.2 and it was a no |
| 04:30.43 | ieatlint | haven't tried it in the asu or qtopia |
| 04:30.53 | ieatlint | i suppose i can in a min |
| 04:31.01 | notserpe | cjb: I was mentioning the brief article I saw about trolltech pulling qtopia gpl version for 3 weeks due to some funky business related to the nokia buy |
| 04:32.18 | *** join/#openmoko jOERG (n=jr@p5493BE77.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:33.39 | tessier | Wow. I did an opkg upgrade on Saturday and it downloaded and installed a bunch of stuff. Now I do it again two days later and it downloads and installs at least as much. Is stuff really changing that fast or is it duplicating efforts? |
| 04:34.15 | Chox | if the kernel changes, then there will be lots of little packages |
| 04:34.19 | Chox | that is 1/2 of it |
| 04:34.31 | Chox | OE tends to break stuff up a lot more than Debian |
| 04:34.57 | notserpe | xp so sucks. |
| 04:35.12 | tessier | oops...and just like last time I was ssh'd in when I did the upgrade and it upgraded dropbear and kicked me off |
| 04:35.42 | ieatlint | [AO_ALSA] alsa-lib: pcm.c:2106:(snd_pcm_open_conf) Cannot open shared library /usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_pcm_bluetooth.so |
| 04:35.49 | ieatlint | no, it does not support bluetooth yet |
| 04:36.09 | Chox | yes, that bit is fun |
| 04:36.16 | Chox | oh yes, it forgets the upgrade if that happens |
| 04:36.19 | Chox | you need to do: |
| 04:36.21 | ieatlint | installing alsa-lib, might do something |
| 04:36.32 | ieatlint | nope |
| 04:36.32 | Chox | opkg install dropbear >/dev/null 2>&1 |
| 04:36.35 | Chox | that's why |
| 04:36.47 | Chox | _then_ you can pull everything |
| 04:38.30 | ieatlint | in order to get bluetooth headsets working with alsa, you need only add a device in asound.conf that says "type bluetooth" "device bdaddr" ... then tell applications to use that alsa device |
| 04:39.01 | ieatlint | so the phone for instance could say call this phone number and use the bluetooth headset instead of dmix, and the sound would work fine... it's a very simple interface |
| 04:39.22 | ieatlint | but it lacks the bluetooth alsa library at the moment |
| 04:39.51 | SpeedEvil | That's a bit more complex as I understand it. |
| 04:40.07 | SpeedEvil | The bluetooth device can send the audio directly, not going through the CPU. |
| 04:40.15 | SpeedEvil | Or maybe I'm confused. |
| 04:40.33 | *** join/#openmoko Hoolxi (i=cb6ea385@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a3c43b286e71f5e5) |
| 04:40.34 | ieatlint | i've configured bluetooth headsets on linux for use with things like gizmo/skype |
| 04:41.21 | ieatlint | it's that simple... pair it, create an entry in asound.conf/asoundrc, and tell apps to use that device |
| 04:42.24 | ieatlint | you can even control the device using the standard alsa mixer ... for instance, i named my headset "hs" ... "alsamixer -D pcm.hs" |
| 04:42.43 | ieatlint | ALSA lib control.c:874:(snd_ctl_open_conf) Cannot open shared library /usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_ctl_bluetooth.so ... no bluetooth support in alsa is provided |
| 04:43.39 | nullpuppy | have you checked to see if the file was there? |
| 04:44.34 | ieatlint | there's just a folder called smixer in the alsa-lib dir |
| 04:44.53 | nullpuppy | ok |
| 04:46.28 | ieatlint | apparently the support is added through bluez |
| 04:46.35 | notserpe | ooo my neo is getting flashed for the first time in 9 months... it feels strange. |
| 04:47.10 | nullpuppy | hehe |
| 04:47.16 | tessier | hmm |
| 04:47.18 | nullpuppy | i should flash my fr |
| 04:47.39 | tessier | *** IN FUNCTION: ecore_event_handler_del() |
| 04:47.46 | tessier | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:47.54 | tessier | *** NAUGHTY PROGRAMMER!!! |
| 04:47.56 | tessier | etc etc |
| 04:48.25 | mwester | Yeah, somebody at OM is still sitting in the corner for that. |
| 04:49.36 | tessier | So that is a known/fixed issue? |
| 04:50.20 | notserpe | what's the state of sdio wifi for the neo presently? |
| 04:50.29 | tessier | sdio? |
| 04:50.47 | notserpe | wifi in sd slot |
| 04:50.50 | tessier | Setting up 802.11 wifi is next on my list. |
| 04:51.05 | feitingen | notserpe: i got it working with wpa |
| 04:51.14 | notserpe | what card you using? |
| 04:51.27 | feitingen | the built in card |
| 04:51.29 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc-999@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 04:51.46 | notserpe | I'm talking 1973 not freerunner. |
| 04:51.57 | feitingen | oh, sorry |
| 04:52.20 | notserpe | I'll dig around the wiki i guess. |
| 04:53.33 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:53.38 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 04:54.09 | linuxxr | is everybodys freerunner showing up on scedule\ |
| 04:54.20 | tessier | linuxxr: Seems to be |
| 04:54.34 | nullpuppy | hmm, should i flash uboot as well as kernel and rootfs? |
| 04:54.39 | linuxxr | ok mines still says san pablo |
| 04:54.48 | nullpuppy | linuxxr: mine arrived today |
| 04:54.52 | *** join/#openmoko walrustown (n=emezeske@c-69-242-224-62.hsd1.az.comcast.net) |
| 04:54.54 | linuxxr | cool |
| 04:55.08 | walrustown | has anyone been able to get WPA2 working with their FR? |
| 04:55.27 | tessier | walrustown: I heard there were problems with anything but open AP's |
| 04:55.44 | walrustown | tessier, thanks |
| 04:55.58 | walrustown | although that wasn't exactly what I wanted to hear :/ |
| 04:56.38 | Chox | using WEP here with qtopia |
| 04:56.54 | Chox | shipped kernel has issues with Wifi |
| 04:57.23 | ikjh | WEP works fine for me if I set the key before I set the essid. After I set the essid I can't change the key. |
| 04:57.28 | Stroller | How about WPA? |
| 04:57.28 | Chox | yeh |
| 04:57.29 | notserpe | sounds to me like the gta02 hardware was ready but not software. |
| 04:57.44 | Chox | some funnies. typical of Linux wifi tho. |
| 04:58.09 | nullpuppy | hmm, qtopia, or gtk. decisions decisions... |
| 04:58.15 | ikjh | notserpe: Tell that to the GPS in mine. |
| 04:58.56 | notserpe | does a gta01 debug board work with freer? |
| 04:59.49 | nullpuppy | iirc, sorta |
| 05:00.00 | nullpuppy | you get some features, but not everything |
| 05:01.04 | *** join/#openmoko saurabh1403 (n=saurabhg@59.178.37.8) |
| 05:03.40 | *** join/#openmoko xaid|work (n=Xaid|Wor@d121-173-37.home3.cgocable.net) |
| 05:03.49 | *** join/#openmoko mgregson (n=mgregson@S0106000f66911f39.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 05:06.04 | CM | nullpuppy: You probably don't need to flash uboot |
| 05:06.04 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@h-60-229.A163.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 05:06.08 | notserpe | how many backorders of freerunner are there currently? any chance I'll get one shorty on the second run? |
| 05:06.27 | nullpuppy | CM: *nods* |
| 05:06.42 | nullpuppy | are there changelogs posted anywhere? that'd be kinda handy |
| 05:07.06 | notserpe | nullpuppy, nobody responded with a yes to my asking the same thing about an hour ago |
| 05:07.17 | nullpuppy | k |
| 05:07.28 | nullpuppy | might post something in the ML later then |
| 05:07.55 | *** join/#openmoko BDo (n=bdonnett@linagoraberri.pck.nerim.net) |
| 05:09.09 | tessier | hmm |
| 05:09.28 | tessier | opkg update never finishes. It runs into that "Input handle pointer is null" and then crashes. |
| 05:09.45 | tessier | If I run it again it will upgrade all of the same packages over again. WTF? |
| 05:09.56 | tessier | Doesn't it keep a db of what versions it currently has and not upgrade those like rpm does? |
| 05:10.37 | ieatlint | no issues here with opkg update or upgrade |
| 05:11.00 | *** join/#openmoko newb_ (n=abhi@124.124.12.157) |
| 05:13.37 | newb_ | hi can anyone tell me which is the best OS for openmoko development? |
| 05:13.47 | walrustown | DOS |
| 05:13.50 | ieatlint | beos |
| 05:13.56 | kelvie | Emacs |
| 05:14.37 | kelvie | seriously, though, whatever you're comfortable in |
| 05:14.51 | kelvie | I personally find it rough doing any kind of development in Windows |
| 05:14.54 | ieatlint | well, with a linux environment at least |
| 05:14.55 | kelvie | never tried a Mac |
| 05:15.02 | kelvie | but in the end, it's all just plumbing for Emacs |
| 05:15.06 | cjb | I'm going to go out on a limb and say Linux |
| 05:15.13 | cjb | (Ubuntu's pretty good.) |
| 05:15.17 | ieatlint | i've heard people complain about lack of dfu-util in windows... as though the rest of us care |
| 05:15.41 | mwester | That isn't the only thing windows lacks. |
| 05:18.05 | Stroller | newb_: sorry, everyone's taking the piss, which is pretty understandable if you're an experienced Linux user. Openmoko is Linux-based and you're best using a Linux desktop for development |
| 05:18.48 | newb_ | Stroller: i meant best Linux; I don't consider Windoze and the like as OSes. |
| 05:18.59 | ieatlint | hey now, we stopped saying bullshit midway through our "advice" |
| 05:19.19 | ieatlint | careful... beos has a lot of redeeming qualities |
| 05:19.24 | ieatlint | it is a real os! |
| 05:19.30 | newb_ | Stroller: i'm having serious issues getting the Qemu to work on Ubuntu |
| 05:19.38 | newb_ | so i was wondering if i should switch to something else |
| 05:19.41 | nullpuppy | ieatlint: beos or hiaku? |
| 05:20.17 | ieatlint | i am unfamiliar with haiku |
| 05:20.34 | nullpuppy | really? huh. alright ;) |
| 05:20.56 | nullpuppy | hiaku (or is haiku ... either way) is an open implementation/clone of beos |
| 05:21.08 | ieatlint | ah, the people who didn't give up |
| 05:21.17 | nullpuppy | yeah |
| 05:21.22 | nullpuppy | pretty much |
| 05:21.32 | nullpuppy | haiku-os.org |
| 05:21.38 | *** join/#openmoko newb__ (n=abhi@124.124.12.157) |
| 05:21.54 | newb__ | seriously which linux flavor do most people use for openmoko development? :) |
| 05:22.13 | ieatlint | there is no answer to that |
| 05:22.16 | ieatlint | no one's done a poll |
| 05:22.20 | mmontour | I've used both Debian and OpenSUSE 10.3 |
| 05:22.36 | ieatlint | and i'm on gentoo |
| 05:22.37 | newb__ | mmontour: did the qemu work for u? |
| 05:22.38 | nullpuppy | i'm currently using ubuntu |
| 05:22.51 | newb__ | nullpuppy: did u manage to get qemu working? |
| 05:23.03 | nullpuppy | yeah |
| 05:23.21 | mmontour | The qemu that's part of the 'make openmoko-devel-image' worked. I haven't tried using qemu directly |
| 05:23.26 | nullpuppy | very slow, but it did work |
| 05:23.43 | *** join/#openmoko Railer (n=Railer@S0106001839c24abd.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 05:23.49 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r3eb865ecd108 10/src/server/phone/telephony/callpolicymanager/cell/ (cellmodemmanager.cpp cellmodemmanager.h): [gsm] Handle failing AT+CFUN for the TI Calypso |
| 05:24.03 | newb__ | nullpuppy: mine hangs with a jffs2 notice and warning so i was wondering if it's a problem with Ubuntu |
| 05:24.08 | mmontour | You may have to manually install a gcc 3.x to build qemu - it has issues with higher compiler versions |
| 05:24.49 | Psi | hm.. Are you supposed to end up with a x86 binary when bulding the openmoko-sample2 application using the toolchain, i would have expected an arm binary? |
| 05:24.59 | newb__ | mmontour: but otherwise i can get the toolchain working right? i shouldn't have issues with that. and also i guess i can flash the neo after that. |
| 05:25.12 | newb__ | Psi: u should get an arm binary |
| 05:25.22 | Psi | well i dont, hehe |
| 05:25.28 | tessier | Every time I reboot my phone it comes back up and says "2 missed calls" at the bottom of the screen |
| 05:25.36 | nullpuppy | Psi: whats your local.conf build target set at? |
| 05:26.16 | newb__ | tessier: that's nice. someone is missing u LOL |
| 05:26.24 | Psi | i wouldnt know, im new to linux development, just following 'building a sample project' on the wiki |
| 05:26.27 | rivalarrival | tessier: That's my fault - every time you reboot, I call you twice. |
| 05:26.41 | nullpuppy | ok |
| 05:26.45 | tessier | Both very useful answers, thanks. :P |
| 05:26.54 | newb__ | tessier: :) |
| 05:26.57 | tessier | And I installed ntpd and the time is still always wrong. |
| 05:27.12 | newb__ | tessier: check the timezone |
| 05:27.19 | notserpe | does the neo gps work yet? |
| 05:27.25 | nullpuppy | shouldn't there be a way to pull time from gsm? |
| 05:27.26 | notserpe | 1973... |
| 05:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko iormz (n=oramirez@189.153.44.174) |
| 05:27.34 | tessier | newb_: it says it is 9:59. That isn't right in any time zone |
| 05:27.51 | newb__ | nullpuppy: not all networks allow u to pull time |
| 05:27.53 | mmontour | I haven't tried with the toolchain - I built the whole image with MokoMakefile. It is possible to build without qemu, but you have to disable binary locale generation for glibc |
| 05:27.56 | iormz | hi, is there other tutorial for programming in openmoko ? |
| 05:27.58 | nullpuppy | tessier: at least not on earth... ;) |
| 05:27.58 | rtm | notserpe: GPS on neo1973 has worked well for 7 or 8 months now. |
| 05:28.03 | newb__ | tessier: it's 10:59 where i am |
| 05:28.03 | iormz | I have read the helloworld one.. |
| 05:28.08 | nullpuppy | newb__: alright |
| 05:28.33 | feitingen | tessier: install ntpdate instead of ntpd |
| 05:28.36 | tessier | newb_: That seems unlikely |
| 05:28.37 | notserpe | diversity can't fix on this image I just loaded. |
| 05:29.36 | tessier | ah, ntpdate did it. Now how do I set the timezone? |
| 05:30.01 | nullpuppy | ln -sf /usr/share/i/can't/remmeber/zone/info/path /etc/localtime |
| 05:30.04 | rtm | notserpe: The neo1973 needs gllin to work. |
| 05:30.18 | *** join/#openmoko andred (n=aduffeck@kde/duffeck) |
| 05:30.23 | tessier | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:30.39 | nullpuppy | yeah, then country/city or whatever |
| 05:31.43 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-143.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 05:32.18 | nullpuppy | hmmm, /me comtemplates building something similar to motorola phone tools for openmoko |
| 05:32.49 | newb__ | nullpuppy: openmoko works on Motoming, Motorokr |
| 05:33.01 | nullpuppy | nods |
| 05:33.11 | nullpuppy | does the phone tools app still work with it then? |
| 05:33.31 | nullpuppy | i'm just thinking having an app to sync contacts, etc easily would be kinda nice |
| 05:33.36 | newb__ | nullpuppy: i haven't tried it out myself but i know some ppl who have |
| 05:34.53 | nullpuppy | ok |
| 05:36.05 | *** join/#openmoko benlake (n=benlake@c-98-201-153-180.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 05:36.12 | benlake | sighs |
| 05:36.51 | benlake | I wonder why so little of the OSX wiki page uses 10.5 |
| 05:37.31 | tessier | WTF? I changed the /etc/localtime symlink and it's still doing UTC. |
| 05:37.59 | tessier | ops |
| 05:38.00 | tessier | oops |
| 05:38.04 | tessier | /etc/localime isn't quite right |
| 05:38.05 | nullpuppy | restarted x? |
| 05:38.07 | benlake | How might I go about entering a forward slash using the numeric keypad the default terminal utilizes (2007.2 is what I mean by default) |
| 05:38.08 | nullpuppy | lol |
| 05:38.35 | nullpuppy | benlake: you have to install the alternate keyboard. |
| 05:38.39 | walrustown | need..... vi... editing mode.... |
| 05:38.42 | nullpuppy | info is on the Getting Started wiki page |
| 05:38.53 | benlake | of which I cannot do because I can't get any useful networking going |
| 05:38.54 | tessier | YEAY. Now we have the correct time. |
| 05:39.03 | nullpuppy | tessier: woot |
| 05:39.10 | benlake | and half of the networking steps require commands that use forward slashes! |
| 05:39.11 | nullpuppy | benlake: why not? |
| 05:39.12 | *** join/#openmoko milo_ (n=nilsense@dslb-088-078-000-031.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 05:39.22 | nullpuppy | benlake: can you ssh into it? |
| 05:39.26 | tessier | benlake: Gotta get network over USB goign |
| 05:39.34 | tessier | benlake: I did that without needing to use the on screen keyboard |
| 05:39.46 | benlake | that is what I have been trying to do |
| 05:39.59 | nullpuppy | benlake: all you need to do is bring up usb networking on the pc and ssh to 192.168.0.202 |
| 05:40.00 | benlake | all the osx driver do not work on 10.5 |
| 05:40.11 | nullpuppy | oh |
| 05:40.12 | nullpuppy | hrm |
| 05:40.23 | benlake | and the PPP commands require a forward slash |
| 05:40.46 | nullpuppy | hmm.. can you ssh over bluetooth? |
| 05:40.49 | ozzloy | i just put in a sim card, it says "registering" and i can't make or receive a call |
| 05:40.49 | benlake | so I have this chicken and this egg you see... |
| 05:40.59 | ozzloy | btw, i just got a freerunner |
| 05:41.03 | tessier | ozzloy: Turn on the gsm modem |
| 05:41.07 | benlake | would not have guessed |
| 05:41.14 | tessier | ozzloy: Click on the antenna icon in the upper right |
| 05:41.28 | ozzloy | tessier: it has 2 bars |
| 05:41.48 | tessier | ozzloy: Do it anyway. Turn it on and the go back in there and turn on auto-register. That's what I had to do. Then it worked fine. |
| 05:42.01 | ieatlint | benlake, do you have a wifi network you can connect it to? |
| 05:42.17 | benlake | yep, I've seen those commands to |
| 05:42.40 | ieatlint | you should be able to get it online via wifi... with a lot of effort on that crappy keypad |
| 05:42.51 | ozzloy | tessier: turned it off and back on, it just has a question mark |
| 05:42.59 | ozzloy | wait, maybe it's registering right now |
| 05:43.38 | tessier | ieatlint: wifi is my next project now that I have time working. That and somehow finishing an upgrade. |
| 05:43.44 | ozzloy | still question mark |
| 05:43.48 | ozzloy | power cycling! |
| 05:43.48 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r822ccdef5e1a 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qsoftmenubar.cpp: [help] Only show the "Help" menu entry if a provider of the Help service is installed |
| 05:44.15 | feitingen | tessier: freerunner or 1973? |
| 05:44.30 | benlake | ieatlint: the first command asks me to create a file |
| 05:44.35 | ozzloy | freerunner |
| 05:44.47 | benlake | ieatlint: I can't navigate the fs without a forward slash |
| 05:44.48 | ozzloy | tessier: i have wifi working |
| 05:44.54 | ieatlint | yes, you can |
| 05:45.02 | ieatlint | "cd .." |
| 05:45.03 | ieatlint | a lot |
| 05:45.05 | ozzloy | tessier: is there a meetup this thursday? |
| 05:45.18 | ieatlint | then when at / ... "cd etc", etc |
| 05:45.49 | ieatlint | you really need to get usb networking working |
| 05:45.50 | benlake | and then when I'm editing the file I enter "ctrl_interface=/var/run/wpa_supplicant |
| 05:45.50 | benlake | " |
| 05:46.05 | benlake | I hear yeah man, I would do it... if I could |
| 05:46.08 | ieatlint | oh, point taken |
| 05:46.16 | rivalarrival | Copy/paste? |
| 05:46.23 | ieatlint | can you get a >? |
| 05:46.42 | feitingen | benlake: i usually does cd .. and copies the / from the prompt |
| 05:46.57 | benlake | negative |
| 05:47.09 | benlake | hmm |
| 05:47.28 | rivalarrival | Wow. The keyboard doesn't have common *nix characters? |
| 05:47.37 | feitingen | for special characters i recommend making a file in ~ you can cat and copy from |
| 05:47.38 | ieatlint | ok, i have a solution |
| 05:47.47 | *** join/#openmoko Pjj (n=pjj@028-185-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 05:47.58 | ieatlint | find a file that has a / in it |
| 05:48.06 | ieatlint | and vi can copy/paste it |
| 05:48.34 | benlake | trying... |
| 05:48.38 | rivalarrival | here: I'll send you a bunch: /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// |
| 05:48.44 | rivalarrival | Merry Christmas. :-) |
| 05:48.49 | benlake | got it! :P |
| 05:49.00 | ieatlint | just make sure not to overwrite a file you need now |
| 05:49.04 | benlake | ok now, omfg am I really about to attempt this. |
| 05:49.07 | ieatlint | :saveas bleh |
| 05:49.11 | *** join/#openmoko icman__ (n=icman@123-240-172-143.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 05:49.18 | ieatlint | (make that the first thing you do) |
| 05:49.47 | rtm | rivalarrival: Please post those on the wiki! |
| 05:49.49 | benlake | w00t! |
| 05:50.22 | benlake | n/m that was short lived :P |
| 05:50.27 | ieatlint | lol |
| 05:50.45 | Stroller | ieatlint: when you're in edit mode in vi, how do you exit back to command mode? The default keybopard has no escape key |
| 05:51.05 | ieatlint | oh ... uhm ... right... hehe |
| 05:51.18 | rivalarrival | hehe, WTF. |
| 05:51.30 | Stroller | lol |
| 05:51.33 | benlake | Is it just me, but was the lack of a full keyboard just a slight oversight? |
| 05:51.35 | Stroller | It's fsck'd up |
| 05:51.39 | rtm | Stroller: Why not save yourself enormous grief and install the matchbox keyboard? |
| 05:52.02 | ljp | why not just use usbnet and ssh into it |
| 05:52.03 | Stroller | benlake: I think if you upgrade to the newer firmware it's better |
| 05:52.20 | benlake | why the hell not! |
| 05:52.26 | ieatlint | omg, ed isn't on this? |
| 05:52.33 | rivalarrival | Yeah, quit screwing around with it and fucker it up! |
| 05:52.36 | Stroller | rtm: at the time, I didn't have USB networking working. Because the Freerunner was plugged into the wall and had not completed it's full first charge |
| 05:53.19 | ieatlint | benlake, yeah, without usb networking, you're screwed |
| 05:53.30 | ieatlint | why doesn't it work? something with osx? |
| 05:53.41 | ieatlint | because my solution for that, is go get a linux live cd |
| 05:53.52 | benlake | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MacOS_X#USB_Networking |
| 05:53.55 | ozzloy | tessier: what area of sd are you in? |
| 05:54.05 | ozzloy | tessier: i might not be close enough to an 850 tower |
| 05:54.09 | benlake | apparently not a "fault" situation |
| 05:54.18 | Stroller | ieatlint: : "why doesn't it work? something with osx?" - are you taking to me? |
| 05:54.22 | ozzloy | is it supposed to continually say "registering"? |
| 05:54.23 | ieatlint | no, benlake |
| 05:54.35 | benlake | but the drivers to overcome some default assumptions aren't working for me |
| 05:54.55 | benlake | ieatlint: yes I know... not a fault situation...it is no ones fault |
| 05:54.57 | ieatlint | benlake, well, either work that out, or get a linux livecd :P |
| 05:55.00 | Stroller | ieatlint: ok, thx |
| 05:55.31 | benlake | I have a couple linux boxes, but they are all on duty :P |
| 05:56.07 | benlake | I'd rather futs with OSX as it is where my phone will live |
| 05:56.23 | Stroller | benlake: ah! 10.5 seems to be impossible here, too. 10.4 is pretty lame, too (looks like it needs a reboot of OS X if you reboot the Freerunner) |
| 05:56.34 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-088-065-068-067.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 05:57.00 | benlake | all sorts of rebooting has occurred, but I see none of the devices they say should show up |
| 05:57.11 | *** part/#openmoko notserpe (n=woot@dsl-67-55-13-241.acanac.net) |
| 05:57.30 | nullpuppy | benlake: so, ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 fails in osx? |
| 05:57.53 | benlake | there is no usb0 device |
| 05:57.59 | benlake | that is what the drivers were trying to rectify |
| 05:58.02 | nullpuppy | ok |
| 05:58.02 | Stroller | No, I didn't under 10.5, either. It's just flat. Even using that kext linked to in the wiki |
| 05:58.08 | nullpuppy | ah, alright |
| 05:58.51 | benlake | I wish the booted moko would let me serial in tty style |
| 05:59.10 | benlake | cause I can do that |
| 05:59.25 | nullpuppy | need a debug board to do that |
| 05:59.34 | Stroller | I think I'm just gonna plug it into a Linux box and ssh into that |
| 05:59.36 | benlake | blargpants |
| 05:59.51 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M844c.m.pppool.de) |
| 06:01.04 | ljp | the freeruneers modem seems keep loosing it registered status. at least the device I have |
| 06:01.41 | Stroller | ljp: I had problems registerng & it turned out the SIM wasn't seated correctly |
| 06:02.25 | ljp | oh it registers fine, but then reregisters after only a few minutes or so |
| 06:02.54 | benlake | ok, the download page tells me to go http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/ for the FR recommended images, but the images say gta01!? |
| 06:03.26 | Stroller | Well, ljp, I just thought it might be possible your SIM holder was coming loose, or something? |
| 06:03.44 | ljp | possibly. trying it without the sd card |
| 06:04.03 | vpv | ayeuu: How did you manage to update the boot menu settings to boot from SD? For some reason it doesn't save the changed settings for me, tried with neocon. |
| 06:04.48 | Stroller | ljp: once the SIM holder has hinged down you have to slide it. Note "LOCK ->" is stamped into the holder |
| 06:05.26 | benlake | I've seen the link roll through here a lot, so I hate to ask, but where is the flashing guide? |
| 06:06.08 | benlake | Oh I fail, totally see it |
| 06:06.20 | kd8ikt | benlake: http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ |
| 06:06.26 | benlake | bows |
| 06:06.51 | kd8ikt | helps to sift a bit through http://downloads.openmoko.org and get the folder structure |
| 06:07.11 | *** join/#openmoko vadim (n=Vadim@212.248.18.162) |
| 06:07.42 | benlake | thanks everyone |
| 06:07.48 | benlake | sleeps |
| 06:08.06 | *** join/#openmoko two3four (n=erik@81-233-151-113-no82.business.telia.com) |
| 06:09.15 | *** join/#openmoko sandos_ (n=sandos@me-210-97-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
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| 06:11.00 | walrustown | hey wait a second |
| 06:11.07 | walrustown | the headset jack |
| 06:11.12 | walrustown | is not 1/8"! |
| 06:11.28 | nullpuppy | nope! |
| 06:11.39 | walrustown | aw, hell |
| 06:11.43 | nullpuppy | 2.5mm |
| 06:11.43 | walrustown | I wanted to plug my headphones in :/ |
| 06:12.40 | ieatlint | don't worry, it's a feature |
| 06:13.03 | *** join/#openmoko mgregson (n=mgregson@S0106000f66911f39.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 06:13.12 | walrustown | oh, it is? |
| 06:13.13 | walrustown | yay |
| 06:14.30 | walrustown | guess it's adapter time |
| 06:15.23 | nullpuppy | ok. qtopia or gtk. decision time |
| 06:16.13 | ieatlint | apparently you need to restart qpe after you run "upgrade" ... |
| 06:16.23 | *** join/#openmoko saurabh1403 (n=saurabhg@59.178.37.8) |
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| 06:21.47 | nullpuppy | that was close... |
| 06:21.55 | nullpuppy | nearly tried to flash rootfs to kernel.... |
| 06:21.55 | *** part/#openmoko Tronic (i=tronic@zi.fi) |
| 06:24.59 | ieatlint | nullpuppy, it wouldn't have done anything bad really |
| 06:25.04 | ieatlint | you'd just have to re-flash the kernel again |
| 06:25.18 | nullpuppy | yeah |
| 06:25.33 | *** join/#openmoko newb (n=abhi@124.124.12.157) |
| 06:25.41 | nullpuppy | damn rootfs takes too long to flash |
| 06:25.50 | *** join/#openmoko Lo-lan-do (n=roland@mirenboite.placard.fr.eu.org) |
| 06:27.19 | ljp | thanks to usb1 |
| 06:27.27 | nullpuppy | yup |
| 06:28.00 | ieatlint | quite so |
| 06:28.10 | ieatlint | let that be the least of our problems |
| 06:28.18 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-143.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 06:28.29 | kd8ikt | what are you flashing it with? |
| 06:29.06 | kd8ikt | a personal build or what |
| 06:30.11 | ieatlint | heh, opkg let me install gtk apps without gtk installed |
| 06:30.18 | ieatlint | truly an awesome package manager :P |
| 06:30.37 | nullpuppy | kd8ikt: currently daily of gtk build |
| 06:30.40 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@195.6.104.193) |
| 06:30.46 | kd8ikt | hm thats unlike opkg to do that |
| 06:30.51 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 06:32.09 | kd8ikt | but then again its not the installers fault its that http://downloads.openmoko.org/openmoko-repository/Freerunner/Packages is empty |
| 06:32.32 | ieatlint | yeah, it's the packager of this app... i'm needlessly bashing |
| 06:33.23 | kd8ikt | heres what a sane Package file looks like http://downloads.openwrt.org/backports/0.9/Packages |
| 06:34.05 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@140.78.42.115) |
| 06:34.17 | ecraven | morning ;) |
| 06:35.26 | *** join/#openmoko jeremychang (n=jeremy_c@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 06:37.26 | kd8ikt | see what i'm saying? |
| 06:38.27 | ozzloy | bhhhb |
| 06:42.41 | nullpuppy | anyone have any idea why not all my contacts are showing up? |
| 06:42.47 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
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| 06:43.19 | nullpuppy | in gtk image |
| 06:43.27 | nullpuppy | (flashing to test qtopia now) |
| 06:46.04 | sontek | my moko will be here tomorrow morning |
| 06:47.56 | AciD | hey |
| 06:48.27 | AciD | how can you set sound volume (better yet: how can you disable the ticking sound each time you touch the screen ?) |
| 06:49.31 | *** join/#openmoko pazante (n=patrik@user113.77-105-224.netatonce.net) |
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| 07:06.51 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rd0246d971a34 10/test/test.py: Some minor changes |
| 07:06.51 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rab726444d1c1 10/ (13 files in 9 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://git@git.freesmartphone.org/framework |
| 07:09.30 | *** join/#openmoko seeker_ (n=chatzill@unlim-12.vpn.tomsk.net) |
| 07:10.04 | ChandleWEi | have anyway to install pdf in openmoko? |
| 07:11.15 | nullpuppy | hrm. /me reverts back to gtk |
| 07:11.20 | *** part/#openmoko Lo-lan-do (n=roland@mirenboite.placard.fr.eu.org) |
| 07:11.27 | *** join/#openmoko atul (n=qvantel@61.16.248.242) |
| 07:12.25 | vpv | nullpuppy: did you try ASU or 'upstream' qtopia? |
| 07:12.32 | nullpuppy | ASU |
| 07:12.49 | nullpuppy | todays daily build |
| 07:13.21 | *** join/#openmoko andrewy (i=andrewy@209.126.180.153) |
| 07:13.35 | vpv | ok, upstream qtopia is supposedly quite nice, but I haven't gotten anything to boot from the SD yet, so I'm still just using GTK |
| 07:13.44 | andrewy | My provider (Sprint PCS) isn't listed on http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_us.shtml , should I be looking for it under another name? |
| 07:13.46 | nullpuppy | nods |
| 07:13.58 | nullpuppy | andrewy: sprint isn't gsm |
| 07:14.06 | andrewy | oh :( |
| 07:14.14 | nullpuppy | yeah :/ |
| 07:14.33 | nullpuppy | primary us gsm providers are tmobile and att |
| 07:14.58 | andrewy | tmobile has bad reception in my area and i'm not about to use att |
| 07:15.00 | andrewy | oh well |
| 07:15.01 | nullpuppy | don't know of any others |
| 07:15.12 | nullpuppy | sorry man :/ |
| 07:15.53 | andrewy | not being tempted to buy a new phone is probably a good thing |
| 07:15.57 | andrewy | thanks though |
| 07:16.03 | nullpuppy | hehe, yeah |
| 07:16.05 | nullpuppy | no prob. |
| 07:17.46 | *** join/#openmoko balzar (n=user@83.89.222.214) |
| 07:18.22 | newb | sleeps |
| 07:18.27 | *** join/#openmoko HauDyrArb (n=kh@cpe.atm2-0-90202.0x535ce7aa.virnxx13.customer.tele.dk) |
| 07:19.55 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 07:20.31 | *** join/#openmoko kwek (n=martijn@188.Red-213-97-48.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 07:20.39 | balzar | hello everyone! i have been keeping an eye on openmoko for some time with a great deal of excitement. before i make a purchase, i would really like to know what is the longest battery life time achieved so far?? |
| 07:21.15 | *** part/#openmoko andrewy (i=andrewy@209.126.180.153) |
| 07:22.05 | ieatlint | balzar, that depends on a LOT of factors ... basically, assume not long enough |
| 07:22.29 | ieatlint | it'd be like: go to bed, charge your phone ... go to work, charge your phone, go home, charge your phone... |
| 07:23.20 | Stroller | Really? I thought you could usually expect to get a day out of the Freerunner |
| 07:23.29 | balzar | on openmoko's wiki there is some info about getting from 12 hours up to 21 ? |
| 07:23.51 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 07:23.55 | ieatlint | well, depends on your use |
| 07:24.09 | nullpuppy | iirc, factory shipped firmware will give you around 6. not sure where the other firmwares sit currently |
| 07:24.09 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@vpn1-8.tu-graz.ac.at) |
| 07:24.20 | ieatlint | 6 sounds right to me |
| 07:24.38 | nullpuppy | with gps/wifi/bt/etc off, you should be good for a while if its in suspend most of the time. |
| 07:25.16 | ieatlint | well, suspend is dangerous |
| 07:25.27 | ieatlint | things don't always return, and calls can be missed in suspend mode |
| 07:25.36 | nullpuppy | nods |
| 07:25.41 | no7 | hm, will openmoko run j2me apps? |
| 07:25.57 | nullpuppy | should, just need to install a j2me runtime. |
| 07:26.02 | ieatlint | there's a java runtime for it |
| 07:26.02 | nullpuppy | afaik |
| 07:26.10 | ieatlint | i forget what it's called.. something weird |
| 07:27.43 | *** join/#openmoko anno^da (n=anno^da@p5B07CBA1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:27.52 | no7 | ive developed this crypto app for secure communication for j2me platform |
| 07:28.11 | no7 | only thing im afraid of, its firmware update over the air |
| 07:28.25 | no7 | will openmoko be safe from that? |
| 07:28.33 | ieatlint | hmmm, there's a "jamvm" packaged labelled "A compact Java Virtual Machine which conforms to the JVM specification version 2." |
| 07:29.06 | no7 | ieatlint: what about MIDP, CLDC ? |
| 07:29.31 | ieatlint | i don't even know what those are |
| 07:29.36 | ieatlint | i despise java myself |
| 07:30.01 | no7 | why? java is great |
| 07:30.09 | ieatlint | uh.. right |
| 07:30.27 | no7 | actually, it is |
| 07:30.49 | no7 | what do you despise it for? |
| 07:30.50 | ieatlint | mono is better, and i don't like it much either |
| 07:32.40 | no7 | never heard of mono, srry |
| 07:32.54 | ieatlint | aka .net |
| 07:33.17 | ieatlint | my problem with runtime languages like java is that they are bulky, slow and never properly integrate with the host os |
| 07:33.53 | *** join/#openmoko jeffszusz (n=jeffsz@d57-109-198.home.cgocable.net) |
| 07:34.01 | no7 | java being slow its a myth^^ |
| 07:34.07 | walrustown | it's not a myth |
| 07:34.14 | beni_ | its an old myth |
| 07:34.25 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@195.6.104.193) |
| 07:34.46 | walrustown | it might get exaggerated, but it is not a myth |
| 07:35.06 | no7 | actually, sometimes java is even faster than p.e. c++ |
| 07:35.09 | ieatlint | java didn't get better, computers did and it became less noticeable |
| 07:35.12 | beni_ | very old myth and repeaded way too often |
| 07:35.22 | no7 | yes beni_ |
| 07:35.38 | *** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@61-217-199-247.dynamic.hinet.net) |
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| 07:35.47 | ieatlint | it's a myth that has proven true to me throughout my entire experiences with it |
| 07:36.06 | walrustown | I think the examples in which java is faster than C++ are *rather contrived* |
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| 07:36.46 | ieatlint | the logic of that is simply... odd... if c++ is slower than java, it's because something is wrong with the c++ code |
| 07:36.52 | beni_ | the problem is, that there are plenty apps out there that are old and buggy and thus slow. |
| 07:37.03 | beni_ | you can also have horribly slow c apps |
| 07:37.17 | beni_ | ieatlint: same ture for java these days. |
| 07:37.25 | walrustown | that's an absolutely general statement |
| 07:38.03 | walrustown | but 99% of the time the same buggy, slow program written in C and Java will be faster in C. |
| 07:38.10 | ieatlint | ironically i'm wearing a sun t-shirt right now, lol |
| 07:38.23 | walrustown | :P |
| 07:38.34 | ChandleWEi | I scan http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Calendar but I alos don't know how to install it, I opkg list|grep calendar but get nothing |
| 07:38.55 | no7 | walrustown: 99% of the time it will be programs written in c that have buffer overflows etc. -.- |
| 07:38.59 | ieatlint | ChandleWEi, try "grep -i calendar" |
| 07:39.10 | *** join/#openmoko dachary (n=loic@prodin-gw.gre.skyrock.net) |
| 07:39.10 | ieatlint | openmoko-dates2 " The Openmoko Calendar" |
| 07:39.18 | walrustown | no7, no doubt |
| 07:39.35 | walrustown | but I'm not arguing that C > Java |
| 07:39.38 | walrustown | in all respects |
| 07:39.46 | ChandleWEi | ieathlint: thx ,I get it |
| 07:40.17 | walrustown | I'm just arguing that the "Java being slow is a myth" thing is silly |
| 07:40.34 | walrustown | Trust me, I like Java, and I'm not going to go write my next web app in C |
| 07:40.35 | *** join/#openmoko ChaosEagle (n=ChaosEag@p54BD178A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:40.41 | no7 | walrustom: its because of gui stuff |
| 07:40.47 | ChaosEagle | good morning everyone ^^ |
| 07:40.55 | ChaosEagle | (or whatever time it is at your location ;) ) |
| 07:40.59 | walrustown | Morning |
| 07:41.08 | no7 | morning ChanServ |
| 07:41.11 | no7 | ChaosEagle |
| 07:41.15 | no7 | that is |
| 07:41.17 | ChaosEagle | lol |
| 07:41.19 | ChaosEagle | nm =) |
| 07:41.19 | ieatlint | as i said, i think mono is better |
| 07:41.25 | walrustown | no7, it is largely GUI stuff, but it really boils down to the fact that there is an extra layer of indirection for *everything* |
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| 07:41.46 | *** part/#openmoko balzar (n=user@83.89.222.214) |
| 07:42.19 | ieatlint | anyway, i am starting to learn python now (and it's insanely easy to learn :) |
| 07:42.23 | ChaosEagle | could anyone tell me where to get a qtopia-image for putting on my sd? |
| 07:42.37 | ieatlint | for writing a quick application, i would agree with the general conception that it is quite good |
| 07:42.38 | nullpuppy | personally, i find java as a language to be sorta ugly. but regardless, the primary problem, speed wise, is crappy jvm's. |
| 07:42.47 | walrustown | python is next on my learn list. I did ruby, and have decided that it can be absurdly evil (monkey-patching, anyone) |
| 07:42.53 | nullpuppy | java will never be as fast as native, but it does have potential to be pretty decent |
| 07:43.04 | no7 | nullpuppy java6 has made great improvements |
| 07:43.06 | walrustown | nullpuppy, agreed, pretty decent |
| 07:43.25 | nullpuppy | no7: thats great. it still won't be the same as native ;) |
| 07:43.26 | ieatlint | walrustown, i was able to take my knowledge of c/++ and write a gtk app with glasses in about 45min |
| 07:43.29 | nullpuppy | it's impossible |
| 07:43.45 | walrustown | ieatlint, for the moko? |
| 07:44.00 | ieatlint | yeah |
| 07:44.00 | nullpuppy | ieatlint: glasses? |
| 07:44.03 | walrustown | woot! |
| 07:44.07 | ieatlint | lol |
| 07:44.13 | ieatlint | glasses, classes, something like that :P |
| 07:44.17 | nullpuppy | hehe |
| 07:44.20 | ieatlint | "no wonder it didn't run!" |
| 07:44.24 | walrustown | I'm trying to reserve this weekend for making a game for the FR |
| 07:44.25 | nullpuppy | lol |
| 07:44.28 | no7 | nullpuppy: not the same, sometimes even better^^ |
| 07:44.49 | ChaosEagle | walrustown: w00t! What do you have in mind? |
| 07:44.53 | walrustown | I'm so tired of hearing "sometimes even better" |
| 07:45.12 | ieatlint | no7, it is simple not possible for java to be better than native if the native code is done correctly |
| 07:45.13 | nullpuppy | no7: how is that possible? you have an extra layer of translation being done w/ java, therefor more clockcycles |
| 07:45.15 | no7 | walrustown srry for my bad english^^ |
| 07:45.16 | walrustown | ChaosEagle, ever play the wooden game "labyrinth" ? Like that, using the accelerometers |
| 07:45.31 | nullpuppy | no7: if java is running faster then native, then the native code is fubar |
| 07:45.34 | walrustown | no7, your english is fine, it's your views on Java that I take issue with :) |
| 07:45.41 | ChaosEagle | walrustown: oh, that would be awesome! :) |
| 07:45.54 | beni_ | some balancing game would be very cool |
| 07:46.03 | ChaosEagle | still waiting for someone to improve the wesnoth port, though ;) |
| 07:46.08 | beni_ | i remember a nice funny game where you have to guide a drunken guy home |
| 07:46.35 | ieatlint | have there been any accelerometer apps? |
| 07:46.37 | beni_ | as he walks he keeps drinking and the mor ehe has drunk, the less he is able to walk |
| 07:46.41 | walrustown | ChaosEagle, we'll see what happens. it looks like I'll have to deal with the accelerometers at a pretty low level at this point... hopefully it doesn't balloon into too much work. also, I can't find docs on using the GPU :/ |
| 07:46.54 | ChandleWEi | ieathlint: have anyway to view pdf? I can't find xpdf in opkg |
| 07:46.58 | no7 | nullpuppy: code optimization during runtime |
| 07:47.26 | ChaosEagle | walrustown: oh, okay - yeah, maybe someone should first write an easy interface/lib for the accelerometers |
| 07:47.28 | ieatlint | hmmm |
| 07:47.44 | ieatlint | "poppler - 0.6.4-r0 - Poppler is a PDF rendering library based on the xpdf-3.0 code base." ... but indeed no actual pdf viewer |
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| 07:47.59 | walrustown | ChaosEagle, I think I'm going to do that. Someone else suggested writing an X11 driver, but I don't know X, so it will probably be a reaaaally simple lib |
| 07:48.04 | ChaosEagle | did anyone manage to boot qtopia from SD, btw? |
| 07:48.16 | ChaosEagle | walrustown: neat! =) |
| 07:48.33 | walrustown | ChaosEagle, I hope so. We'll see how I feel about it after a week or so! |
| 07:48.37 | ChaosEagle | I guess I need to brush up on my C at some point, but... GTK+ looks so intimidating -.- |
| 07:49.06 | ieatlint | yeah, gtk is evil |
| 07:49.08 | walrustown | I think all C++ class frameworks are intimidating |
| 07:49.27 | ChaosEagle | hmm... is python an alternative to write simple gui apps? |
| 07:49.34 | ieatlint | the accelerometers are documented quite well on the wiki... they seem very simple to use |
| 07:49.51 | ieatlint | yeah, python gtk is simpler, i can attest to that |
| 07:49.53 | walrustown | Yeah, shouldn't be too bad |
| 07:49.59 | ChaosEagle | I was thinking of writing a frontend for iwlist/iwconfig/ifconfing to make wardriving/walking possible ;) |
| 07:50.14 | ChaosEagle | cool, than I guess I'll try learning python now ;) |
| 07:50.20 | no7 | nullpuppy: runtime compilation does checks on code thats used often and does inlining etc on most used parts |
| 07:50.46 | walrustown | do it! |
| 07:50.48 | no7 | wont be possible for precompiled code |
| 07:50.51 | mjr | gtk isn't evil, it's C that is evil, gtk's native api is just incidental. Pygtk is fine indeed :] |
| 07:50.56 | ieatlint | ChaosEagle, yeah, you could do that in a few hours if you know a bit of c/c++ |
| 07:51.26 | ieatlint | no7, the compiler does that |
| 07:51.42 | ieatlint | java just added that as a feature to make it faster |
| 07:51.43 | ChaosEagle | ieatlint: Yeah, as a command line app, sure - but I didn't learn gtk yet, and looking at the tutorials, I don't feel like it, either... :/ |
| 07:52.00 | walrustown | the developers should inline important stuff by using a profiler anyways |
| 07:52.01 | ieatlint | ChaosEagle, i mostly gave up on gtk's c api |
| 07:52.10 | ieatlint | as mjr says, pygtk is quite simple |
| 07:52.18 | ieatlint | it reminds me of ncurses |
| 07:52.20 | no7 | ieatlint: for native code, you cant optimize all parts of it to that degree |
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| 07:52.28 | ChaosEagle | *nods* |
| 07:52.43 | walrustown | no7, g++ -O3 |
| 07:53.01 | ChaosEagle | are the relevant libs available in openmoko? |
| 07:53.02 | walrustown | no7, --march=whatever -sse2 |
| 07:53.04 | ieatlint | no7, yeah, gcc optimises the code heavily |
| 07:53.05 | ChaosEagle | i.e. pygtk |
| 07:53.12 | no7 | walrustown still, dont think it would work, huge code would be produced during runtime it would be slower |
| 07:53.15 | nullpuppy | no7: how much do you know about compilers? |
| 07:53.21 | ieatlint | ChaosEagle, opkg install python-pygtk |
| 07:53.25 | nullpuppy | how much c/c++ code have you written? |
| 07:53.27 | walrustown | no7, try beating a compiler that optimises for *the exact architecture the code is running on* |
| 07:53.28 | ChaosEagle | cool, thanks |
| 07:53.31 | no7 | nullpuppy: actually to be honest, little-.- |
| 07:53.36 | *** join/#openmoko giantHogweed (n=Frank@Pbbd3.p.pppool.de) |
| 07:53.59 | no7 | but i get some points of code optimization |
| 07:54.08 | ieatlint | with gcc, you can write the same piece of code 5 different ways and end up with an identical binary |
| 07:54.15 | ChaosEagle | ieatlint: And which version is it? The one for GTK2? |
| 07:54.37 | ieatlint | python-pygtk - 2.10.4-ml8 - Python GTK+ 2.10.x Bindings |
| 07:54.37 | nullpuppy | no7: without knowing how a compiler optimizes, or how things end up afterwords, its hard to really make a decent comparison |
| 07:54.40 | no7 | ieatlink: the compiler wont be able to tell which parts of the code will be used most during runtime |
| 07:54.51 | ChaosEagle | ieatlint: okay, thanks! |
| 07:54.55 | walrustown | no7, that's the developer's job |
| 07:55.04 | ieatlint | no7, oh, you mean on a per-user basis? like.. i generally press this button the most? |
| 07:55.18 | no7 | walrusteam, impractical for larger projects |
| 07:55.23 | no7 | town |
| 07:55.28 | ieatlint | larger projects rarely use java |
| 07:55.29 | walrustown | no7, I don't want a runtime analyzing my code while it's running in production.... I want *my code* running in production |
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| 07:55.51 | walrustown | no7, have you worked on a larger project? it's not impractical, it's called oprofile |
| 07:55.52 | beni_ | ieatlint: rarely but that doesnt mean anything. |
| 07:56.04 | beni_ | we have some huge java applications here in production. |
| 07:56.27 | ieatlint | well, as i said, i speak from my experiences, and more notably, my opinions |
| 07:56.43 | walrustown | I speak from the absolute truth that has been passed down to me from God |
| 07:56.51 | ieatlint | so i'm not trying to claim what i say is absolute fact |
| 07:56.53 | beni_ | :D |
| 07:57.00 | ieatlint | walrustown, there you go |
| 07:57.03 | ieatlint | god made me |
| 07:57.07 | ieatlint | so how can i be wrong? |
| 07:57.09 | walrustown | I'm basically the Pope of software |
| 07:57.13 | ieatlint | are you saying god did a half-assed job? |
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| 07:57.27 | beni_ | heresy!!11eleven! |
| 07:57.44 | walrustown | God has a drinking problem, maybe he was a little wasted when he made you |
| 07:58.05 | ieatlint | well, that explains where i got that problem from |
| 07:58.16 | ieatlint | here i thought it was because i'm of irish descent |
| 07:58.28 | walrustown | well who did you think created the irish!? |
| 07:58.35 | walrustown | the big drunk bearded dude in the sky |
| 07:58.48 | ieatlint | yeah, rumour has it he gave us whiskey so we wouldn't rule the world |
| 07:59.28 | walrustown | scotch wiskey > irish wiskey |
| 07:59.32 | walrustown | there I said it |
| 07:59.40 | ieatlint | whisky is scotch, whiskey is irish |
| 07:59.54 | walrustown | *hangs his head low with shame* |
| 07:59.59 | walrustown | Touche |
| 08:00.06 | ieatlint | really good whiskey is fantastic |
| 08:00.25 | ieatlint | but a $40 bottle of whiskey can't compare to a $40 bottle of scotch, i concede :( |
| 08:00.43 | walrustown | well that's it, to the liquor cabinet I go |
| 08:00.45 | no7 | ieatlint: theres no reason for drinking whiskey but for its alcohol content |
| 08:01.00 | walrustown | no7, you are demoted |
| 08:01.02 | ieatlint | you've not had the right whiskey then :) |
| 08:01.23 | *** join/#openmoko yasker (n=yasker@nat/intel/x-aafbfb1bf57babc4) |
| 08:01.59 | ieatlint | i like 18 year bushmills... but i tend to drink cheaper, i've 18 year glenlivet.. |
| 08:02.24 | walrustown | I like the 18 year glenlivet a lot |
| 08:02.36 | ieatlint | yep, tis very decent |
| 08:02.38 | walrustown | On the cheaper side, Jameson is good |
| 08:02.42 | walrustown | I think that's irish |
| 08:02.47 | ieatlint | yep |
| 08:02.49 | ieatlint | it's ok |
| 08:02.59 | no7 | walrustown undoubtedly whiskey tastes great to many people |
| 08:03.17 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E17F72.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:03.27 | ieatlint | whiskey is the only hard alcohol i'll drink straight... and no, it's not to get drunk... |
| 08:03.35 | ieatlint | it's an acquired taste |
| 08:03.43 | no7 | if you like things its also because of anticipation |
| 08:04.32 | no7 | hm hard to explain |
| 08:05.06 | ieatlint | uh, no, i understand the concept |
| 08:05.08 | walrustown | well I'm out, you guys have a good night (or whatever) |
| 08:05.12 | ieatlint | but is that bad? |
| 08:05.19 | ieatlint | goodnight |
| 08:05.45 | no7 | ieatlint: guess its some kind of human concept |
| 08:05.49 | no7 | neither good nor bad |
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| 08:08.29 | no7 | maybe related to thins like if you like java, or c |
| 08:09.08 | no7 | to an objective observer, both wont be appealing if hes not into programming |
| 08:09.32 | no7 | anyways..... |
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| 08:23.26 | ChaosEagle | aww, crap |
| 08:23.38 | ChaosEagle | seems like my laptop hdd is dying... |
| 08:23.47 | ChaosEagle | I'm off ^^;;; |
| 08:24.05 | *** part/#openmoko ChaosEagle (n=ChaosEag@p54BD178A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 08:27.35 | sontek | What email client does openmoko use? |
| 08:29.31 | ath | It doesn't. |
| 08:29.51 | sontek | so there is no way to currently get e-mail on the openmoko? |
| 08:29.54 | sontek | other than webmail? |
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| 08:32.46 | sontek | Thats odd to me, I haven't seen a phone without an email clien in years |
| 08:33.30 | sontek | the nokia n810 has an ok one, that should be easy to port |
| 08:33.37 | ath | You work in Nokia's development department? |
| 08:34.14 | muhoo | is there any web browser for qtopia? |
| 08:34.16 | sontek | Nope |
| 08:34.22 | muhoo | nope?! |
| 08:34.31 | muhoo | seems like a pretty big oversight. hmm. |
| 08:34.32 | sontek | muhoo: that was to ath |
| 08:34.43 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rf8ea76150e7e 10/test/test.py: More tests |
| 08:34.45 | muhoo | sontek: sorry |
| 08:35.05 | Karrde | muhoo: there is a very basic webkit-browser and minimo |
| 08:35.47 | ieatlint | qtopia 4.4 supposedly has a browser, but 4.3 is all that's out for the freerunner at the moment |
| 08:36.12 | tenzind | Am new to OpenMoko. Just booted my brand new GTA01 on Qemu under Debian Lenny. :) |
| 08:36.23 | sontek | so what are the default apps that come on the moko? web browser? jabber client? anything to open documents/spreadsheets? terminal/ssh client? rdp/vnc client? |
| 08:36.46 | ieatlint | sontek, i don't think you understand what it all is really |
| 08:36.52 | muhoo | Karrde: thanks. webkit is the gtk one, right? is minimo the qt one? |
| 08:37.02 | ath | sontek: software is not ready yet: the phone is for developers. |
| 08:37.18 | ieatlint | the freerunner is hardware |
| 08:37.25 | sontek | ath: I thought GTA01 was for developers and the freerunner was for consumers |
| 08:37.31 | ieatlint | there are 4 different linux-based images you can install on it |
| 08:37.44 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@vpn32-018.rz.fh-offenburg.de) |
| 08:37.44 | nullpuppy | it will be |
| 08:37.47 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@dD577D009.access.telenet.be) |
| 08:37.59 | muhoo | GTA01 was mostly for hardware hackers. GTA02 hardware seems pretty stable, but the software is nowhere near ready |
| 08:38.03 | ath | GTA01 was hardware beta, Freerunner is complete hardware but no software yet. |
| 08:38.22 | tenzind | Now how do I switch off the GTA01 running in Qemu? |
| 08:38.28 | sontek | that makes sense |
| 08:38.30 | ieatlint | gta03 will be for consumers, gta02 will be acceptable for consumers probably around the time gta03 is out :P |
| 08:38.49 | sontek | I ordered one, i'll just have to keep my treo around for day to day use |
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| 08:39.08 | sontek | but since it runs Linux, porting apps that run native linux wont be hard, will it? |
| 08:39.12 | muhoo | like, frinstance, the openmoko image has a web browser, but is missing a ton of other apps, but the qtopia has just about every app you'd want... except a web browser |
| 08:39.24 | sontek | so an app like evolution could be ported? |
| 08:39.26 | muhoo | *sigh* |
| 08:39.50 | muhoo | right now i'm getting this: |
| 08:39.51 | muhoo | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:39.59 | muhoo | someone updating something right now? |
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| 08:42.59 | muhoo | anyone got a binary package of minimo for the freerunner anywhere? |
| 08:43.13 | sontek | muhoo: is it easy to switch between the images? |
| 08:43.22 | sontek | muhoo: like have 3 sd cards, one for each? |
| 08:43.36 | muhoo | sontek: that'd work. or put one in flash, another on sd |
| 08:43.47 | muhoo | has qtopia in flash an is sticking with it like glue |
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| 08:43.56 | ieatlint | sontek, in theory, yes |
| 08:44.14 | muhoo | i'm determined to get a working smartphone with some useful apps |
| 08:44.18 | ieatlint | switching sd cards require removing the battery and sim card |
| 08:44.42 | leinirAWAY | muhoo: Are phone functions working for you on qtopia? :) |
| 08:44.44 | muhoo | if i can get qterminal installed somehow, and find a binary of minimo, i'm done |
| 08:44.57 | muhoo | leinirAWAY: very basic phone, sure. |
| 08:45.04 | ieatlint | the current qtopia image includes qterminal |
| 08:45.13 | muhoo | but US$400 is a lot to spend for the functions of a $20 phone :-( |
| 08:45.14 | leinirAWAY | muhoo: when you say qtopia, you don't mean ASU, right? :) |
| 08:45.26 | muhoo | no, i mean the qtopia image from july 14th |
| 08:45.30 | leinirAWAY | right :) |
| 08:45.59 | leinirAWAY | cos i tried on Friday and didn't have sms and voice - i shall have to give it another shot :) |
| 08:46.00 | muhoo | ieatlint: where? it's not in the default image, and i'm doing an opkg list and not seeing it |
| 08:46.15 | ieatlint | muhoo, are you looking in applications? |
| 08:46.27 | ieatlint | i'm on the 7/13 image |
| 08:46.37 | ecraven | hm.. compiling on the FR is slow business |
| 08:46.46 | andred | hm, qpe eats 100% cpu (with ASU image) when a sd-card is inserted. it's fine without a sd-card. does anybode else face that problem? |
| 08:46.48 | muhoo | i'm on the 7/14 image. there's no qterminal |
| 08:46.59 | ieatlint | from the home screen, i click on the qtopia logo, then select the 4 boxes thing (bottom, 2nd from the right) |
| 08:47.11 | ieatlint | "Terminal" is on the list |
| 08:47.13 | muhoo | also, is there any special opkg.conf magic i need to do in order to get the good qtopia stuff? |
| 08:47.14 | sontek | muhoo: you are lucky you only paid $400 ;) They doubld charged me so I got the luck of paying $800 for the little bit of functionality ;) |
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| 08:48.07 | muhoo | well due to a bulk buy snafu i ended up paying US$500, but that's a different story |
| 08:48.18 | muhoo | and one i don't really want to get into |
| 08:48.49 | muhoo | also, is there a SIP phone app for qtopia? |
| 08:48.53 | tessier | Yeay! Wireless on my freerunner works! |
| 08:48.53 | beni_ | can one use the FR without battery (e.g. usb-powered?) |
| 08:49.22 | sontek | I'd like to keep running GTK apps, so the best bet would probably to to use the FSO stack? |
| 08:49.36 | sontek | since both qtopia and default are being phased out? |
| 08:50.00 | andyfrommk | beni_: probably not, it wont boot on usb without battery and they say dont pull battery out with usb plugged in |
| 08:50.03 | ieatlint | beni_, no from usb |
| 08:50.08 | ieatlint | but you can from the wall charger |
| 08:50.21 | ieatlint | usb doesn't provide enough power in my experience |
| 08:50.43 | ecraven | the SD cards in the FR are microSD, right? no sdhc? |
| 08:50.54 | muhoo | wow, the qtopia phone app already supports SIP? http://doc.trolltech.com/qtopia2.2/html/voip-integration.html |
| 08:51.06 | muhoo | that'd be sweet |
| 08:51.16 | ieatlint | minimo ipkg binaries http://www.ginguppin.de/node/16 |
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| 08:53.03 | muhoo | ieatlint: thanks! |
| 08:53.36 | ieatlint | np |
| 08:53.47 | ieatlint | thank whomever compiled and posted it |
| 08:54.02 | ieatlint | i am updating the wiki with that link now.. |
| 08:55.23 | muhoo | ok quick question. how do i install a .qpk package? |
| 08:55.34 | muhoo | i found one for qterminal! but it's not an .opk, it's a .qpk |
| 08:55.54 | ieatlint | uhm, i dunno, there's a qtopia package manager in the qtopia settings |
| 08:56.23 | muhoo | is there an equivalent to the "alien" package in debain to convert a qpk to an opk? |
| 08:56.35 | muhoo | the qtopia package manager is the suck |
| 08:56.41 | tessier | Freerunner sure does boot slow...fortunately we won't be rebooting it much once the software is figured out |
| 08:56.48 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x_ (n=alvar@80-218-171-130.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:57.13 | muhoo | tessier: there's a bug open on that, IIRC. the task is to replace the heavyweight sysvinit with some kind of linuxrc or lighteweight init clone |
| 08:57.55 | tessier | I like the sysv init. I don't see how that could be taking so long. It's hard to tell what it's doing all that time. |
| 08:58.08 | andyfrommk | muhoo: didn't you find qterminal in the official image from 7/14? |
| 08:58.19 | muhoo | andyfrommk: no. it's not there |
| 08:58.30 | ieatlint | sysvinit on my eeepc takes almost no time, and that's a 633mhz cpu... |
| 08:59.14 | muhoo | ah. |
| 08:59.24 | muhoo | opkg will install a qpk, looks like! |
| 08:59.26 | andyfrommk | muhoo: did you get the 7/14 image from here http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/index.php |
| 08:59.38 | muhoo | help |
| 08:59.40 | muhoo | Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/libxt6_1.0.5-r1_armv4t.ipk, error 0 * |
| 08:59.43 | muhoo | why? |
| 09:00.09 | ieatlint | is the phone online? |
| 09:00.27 | *** join/#openmoko madwoota (i=mad@woota.net) |
| 09:00.33 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 09:00.42 | muhoo | andyfrommk: no. i got it from here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080714/ |
| 09:00.51 | muhoo | and, aw crap, now there's a july 15th image |
| 09:00.59 | ieatlint | note you can always download that url, put it onto the moko and run opkg directly on the file |
| 09:01.24 | ieatlint | the phone otherwise needs to be online, and the default route needs to be fixed |
| 09:01.42 | muhoo | ieatlint: mine? sure. |
| 09:01.50 | ieatlint | if you type "route" and it shows default 192.168.0.200, you need to run "route del default gw 192.168.0.200" |
| 09:01.55 | *** join/#openmoko polz_ (n=polz@lbcsi.fri.uni-lj.si) |
| 09:02.46 | ieatlint | by default, it tries to route packets through the usb interface under the assumption your computer is 192.168.0.200 and is doing nat |
| 09:03.00 | muhoo | ah, networking problem |
| 09:03.41 | muhoo | dns, looks like. i rebooted my phone without running my script to set up the resolv.conf properly |
| 09:03.44 | muhoo | thanks |
| 09:03.49 | muhoo | is too tired now |
| 09:04.00 | ieatlint | yeah, it's a fun phone :P |
| 09:04.36 | *** join/#openmoko atul (n=qvantel@61.16.248.242) |
| 09:04.47 | ecraven | why does Xglamo try to open tty255?? |
| 09:05.02 | ieatlint | because it hates you |
| 09:05.03 | muhoo | it's exciting. i love when projects just get up a head of steam |
| 09:05.05 | tessier | Anyone know how to zoom out in the web browser? |
| 09:05.12 | muhoo | and everything moves so quickly |
| 09:05.17 | ChandleWEi | anyone know which software can be use for pdf |
| 09:05.32 | ieatlint | which web browser? |
| 09:05.33 | tessier | I've got my wireless working but when browsing the web everything is so big I can't see much of any page on the screen. |
| 09:07.03 | ieatlint | clearly someone needs to compile xpdf for arm |
| 09:09.19 | *** join/#openmoko Antenagora (n=antenago@147.162.252.190) |
| 09:09.29 | tessier | I added in the qwerty keyboard mentioned on the getting started page. This thing is so small it's just as hard to use as the numpad keyboard. |
| 09:09.30 | newb | ecraven: tty225! wow |
| 09:10.36 | ecraven | seems that's a -1 gone wrong ;) |
| 09:10.50 | ecraven | hm.. how do we disable the mouse pointer? |
| 09:11.12 | muhoo | awesome |
| 09:11.24 | muhoo | minimo works, and it rules |
| 09:11.45 | ieatlint | that on qtopia? |
| 09:11.49 | ieatlint | muhoo |
| 09:11.51 | muhoo | yerp |
| 09:12.07 | ieatlint | the 7/15? |
| 09:12.18 | muhoo | qtopia 7/14 with minimo from that german dude's website |
| 09:12.35 | muhoo | and liberal use of "opkg upgrade" |
| 09:12.42 | ieatlint | lol, yeah |
| 09:12.46 | ieatlint | i'm not a fan of opkg |
| 09:12.53 | muhoo | really? i like it a lot |
| 09:12.59 | muhoo | is a debian guy |
| 09:13.14 | ieatlint | is not |
| 09:13.34 | ecraven | should Xglamo provide glx? |
| 09:13.50 | muhoo | it's a apt-get lite. ipkg was created for use in the debian installer, then it got used by the openwrt project, and then it got turned into opkg and qpkg apparenly |
| 09:15.31 | *** join/#openmoko JOSF (i=JOSF@3e70d70a.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 09:16.54 | JOSF | Hi. I would be interested whether any Openmoko developer is working together (or on) the Mozilla Mobile project. To be precise: I'd be interested whether there is any efforts to get the mobile Mozilla or XULRunner running on Openmoko. |
| 09:19.07 | muhoo | JOSF: isn't minimo the mobile mozilla? there's already a package for it, it's been ported |
| 09:19.32 | muhoo | i just installed and ran it about 15 seconds ago :- |
| 09:19.34 | muhoo | :-) |
| 09:20.31 | ieatlint | no |
| 09:20.34 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-62-216-215-53.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 09:20.39 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 09:20.41 | ieatlint | minimo is severely outdated |
| 09:20.51 | ieatlint | it was never intended to be a product to release |
| 09:21.10 | ieatlint | mozilla mobile is what is being developed, using parts of minimo as a base |
| 09:21.32 | muhoo | ah |
| 09:21.44 | muhoo | "severely outdated" as it may be, it works great |
| 09:21.51 | muhoo | browses websites, can't beat that |
| 09:21.51 | ieatlint | and i am sure that openmoko is an intended platform for it, but i personally know of no official cooperation/collaboration |
| 09:22.01 | JOSF | muhoo: That is good news. However, it is not Minimo. Minimo never has been finished and it was declared as abandoned by its main developer quite some time ago. |
| 09:22.15 | JOSF | Also, it was designed mainly for Windows Mobile. |
| 09:22.25 | JOSF | The Mozilla company has started another effort. |
| 09:22.31 | muhoo | yeah, it has kind of a windoze-y look to it |
| 09:22.34 | JOSF | It's got full backing. |
| 09:22.40 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@83.68.218.53) |
| 09:22.48 | muhoo | nice. thanks |
| 09:23.08 | muhoo | ok, how do i install a qpk package on an openmoko? |
| 09:23.21 | muhoo | it turns out they're totally different than opk's |
| 09:23.22 | ieatlint | openmoko isn't an os |
| 09:23.56 | muhoo | emacs is an OS :-P |
| 09:24.20 | JOSF | It would be nice to have a fully running Mozilla (the platform) with the Python XPCOM on Openmoko. :) |
| 09:24.38 | ieatlint | "Use your Qtopia device with a network connection to download individual ipkgs, or copy the software packages to a cf or sd card. Then use the Add/Remove software application to install from Documents." |
| 09:24.52 | muhoo | ieatlint: linky? |
| 09:24.56 | ieatlint | i realise that says ipkgs, but perhaps try and put the qpk in the documents |
| 09:25.01 | ieatlint | http://www.qtopia.net/modules/xoopsfaq/index.php?cat_id=3#24 |
| 09:25.05 | muhoo | thx |
| 09:25.22 | ieatlint | ( ~/Documents ) |
| 09:25.43 | muhoo | i don't know where the "Add/Remove software application" is though |
| 09:25.54 | lpotter | unfortunately, qtopai lacks the ability to install software locally, i.e. without being in a feed |
| 09:25.55 | *** join/#openmoko dachary (n=loic@ds9-externe.orbus.fr) |
| 09:26.15 | muhoo | what do you mean by "in a feed"? |
| 09:26.25 | lpotter | on a web server |
| 09:26.27 | JOSF | I have read in the Wiki, that the Freerunner is not capable of running MPEG4 at full speed. Is that because of the hardware or the software? |
| 09:26.36 | lpotter | you could install a web server :) |
| 09:26.39 | ieatlint | lpotter, might you know the address of the official feed? |
| 09:26.51 | ieatlint | i see where to put in the address, but i know not the address |
| 09:26.59 | muhoo | ieatlint: there's no "~/Documents" |
| 09:27.06 | muhoo | root@om-gta02:~# pwd |
| 09:27.06 | muhoo | /home/root |
| 09:27.14 | muhoo | root@om-gta02:~# ls |
| 09:27.14 | muhoo | Applications Settings packages |
| 09:27.23 | ieatlint | hmmm, my memory must've failed me |
| 09:27.49 | lpotter | ieatlint: I havent gotten anything in the feed yet. |
| 09:28.02 | muhoo | lpotter: is there a hack/workaround for, say, installing the qpe-qterminal.qpk on an openmoko phone with qtopia image? |
| 09:28.26 | lpotter | there is a new image at qtopia.net with terms app |
| 09:28.27 | ieatlint | muhoo, type "file qpe-qterminal.qpk" |
| 09:28.37 | muhoo | it's a tarball |
| 09:28.47 | muhoo | with a control file, and another tarball inside of it |
| 09:28.51 | muhoo | like russian dolls |
| 09:29.02 | ieatlint | hah |
| 09:29.29 | lpotter | yes, but just untaring that will not install it, as an entry needs to get placed in the database |
| 09:30.01 | leinirAWAY | lpotter: Using the image from Thursday last week i could neither make calls nor send or receive sms - do you know anything about that? :) (as in, was it a glitch that happened to me, a known problem, fixed, not fixed... ;) ) |
| 09:30.03 | muhoo | oh i see |
| 09:30.04 | newb | JOSF: i think it would be because of both |
| 09:30.21 | newb | mpeg4 is complicated |
| 09:30.54 | ieatlint | actually it's because of the system bus |
| 09:31.04 | muhoo | lpotter: somehow the opkgs manage to do all that |
| 09:31.26 | muhoo | so there *is* a way to install qtopia packages without a qpk |
| 09:31.32 | ieatlint | the gta02 has this chip http://www.smediatech.com/product3362.htm |
| 09:31.39 | ieatlint | which includes a hardware mpeg4 codec |
| 09:31.42 | lpotter | muhoo: if you are talking regualr qtopia, it still needs to be placed in the database. otherwise qtopia wont see it |
| 09:32.04 | muhoo | lpotter: i'm using the qtopia-x11-foo stuff in openmoko |
| 09:32.07 | ieatlint | but the bus that that chip is on, is the same bus that the lcd and the sd card are on... to read, decode and display it exceeds the bus's bandwidth |
| 09:32.16 | ieatlint | (At least, it does at vga resolution) |
| 09:32.39 | muhoo | that opkg installer is doing *something* to make qtopia's qpe thingie happy |
| 09:32.55 | muhoo | because it shows up in the launcher, instantly |
| 09:33.05 | leinirAWAY | muhoo: You misunderstood my question previously, then - you are not running the qtopia image, you are running the ASU pre-release image :) |
| 09:33.13 | mjr | it was my impression that at vga resolution the chip is simply too feeble to decode, rotate and scael |
| 09:33.21 | mjr | that's not a bus issue anymore |
| 09:33.26 | mjr | and no the lcd is not on the same bus |
| 09:33.39 | muhoo | leinirAWAY: i'm running this image: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080714/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080714-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 09:33.44 | muhoo | that exact one |
| 09:33.45 | mjr | scale |
| 09:33.49 | leinir | muhoo: Right, that's ASU :) |
| 09:33.50 | ieatlint | mjr, my info is from the mailing list, and i am definitely not an informed party beyond that |
| 09:33.53 | leinir | Not qtopia :) |
| 09:33.56 | muhoo | leinir: !!! |
| 09:34.06 | muhoo | arizona state university? |
| 09:34.19 | leinir | Hmm? Ehrm... no, Aalborg University ;) |
| 09:34.22 | ieatlint | muhoo, that's the ASU |
| 09:34.37 | leinir | {April,August} Software Update :) |
| 09:34.49 | muhoo | ah, hmm. i didn't know that. leinir: thanks |
| 09:35.00 | ieatlint | the qtopia images come from qtopia.net |
| 09:35.21 | leinir | So, now that we've found out about that, your confusion should be eased slightly - lpotter is talking about the actual qtopia image, not ASU :) |
| 09:35.21 | `pwgen` | Aaloborg univerity ? |
| 09:35.23 | muhoo | oh. wow. that'd explain why i'm so confused. i thought i was running something totally different. |
| 09:35.36 | muhoo | lpotter: sorry |
| 09:35.40 | tessier | 0 good fixes and 168 fails. The log says a lot of "NMEA unknown msg*58" and a few entries with some other stuff. |
| 09:35.41 | `pwgen` | leinir , u ar from aalborg ? |
| 09:35.48 | leinir | `pwgen`: i am indeed :) |
| 09:35.59 | tessier | I checked my GPS antenna connector earlier and it is solid. Something is definitely wrong with the GPS. |
| 09:36.03 | `pwgen` | cool i will move in 2 month to aaloborg ... |
| 09:36.08 | *** join/#openmoko TeNoVi (n=runegang@157.82-134-47.bkkb.no) |
| 09:36.11 | ieatlint | tessier, ignore the unknown messages |
| 09:36.24 | leinir | `pwgen`: Really? Nifty :) We shall have to go out for a brew :) |
| 09:36.26 | ieatlint | but yeah, if the GPG messages rerport just a bunch of 0s and 9s, it means no fix |
| 09:36.38 | `pwgen` | sure .. |
| 09:36.39 | lpotter | muhoo: no worries |
| 09:36.39 | tessier | ieatlint: Yeah, 0's and 9's |
| 09:37.01 | *** join/#openmoko methril (n=Methril@213.27.233.98) |
| 09:37.22 | ieatlint | if you can manage to get a fix with the gps, the fix will be solid |
| 09:37.31 | ieatlint | it will keep the fix |
| 09:37.46 | ieatlint | but getting the fix is a very difficult feat |
| 09:38.01 | tessier | I stood out in the back yard and tried. No luck. |
| 09:38.07 | ieatlint | how long? |
| 09:38.14 | tessier | a minute or two |
| 09:38.19 | ieatlint | no where near enough |
| 09:38.20 | leinir | lpotter: So, know anything about that thing with telephony not working at all for me? :) (someone else confirmed it, randomly, so i'm not entirely alone ;) ) |
| 09:38.25 | HauDyrArb | i get a fix after around 300 secs when i am outside |
| 09:38.26 | ieatlint | no gps can get a cold fix in a min or two |
| 09:38.40 | tessier | ieatlint: My TomTom can. |
| 09:38.46 | tessier | What do you mean cold fix? |
| 09:38.48 | Karrde | tessier: for the first fix you need to stay stationary for about fifteen minutes |
| 09:38.48 | ieatlint | i doubt it's a cold fix |
| 09:38.48 | TeNoVi | Not a cold start |
| 09:38.59 | methril | morning |
| 09:39.00 | ieatlint | cold fix means the gps has no idea where it is |
| 09:39.03 | tessier | Karrde: Wow, really? I guess I'll just leave it out there then. |
| 09:39.09 | Karrde | give or take few minutes |
| 09:39.21 | muhoo | ok, stepping back a bit. how would i get the qterminal to run on the asu? |
| 09:39.37 | ieatlint | my garmin hiking gps can get a fix in under 30 seconds if i'm near where i turned it off |
| 09:39.46 | muhoo | i have a qpk. i'm trying ot figure out how to get it goign on an opk based system |
| 09:39.51 | ieatlint | a cold fix from it took 12 minutes when i timed it earlier today |
| 09:39.54 | Karrde | if you are able to feed assist data to the gps, then the fix time should be reduced to few minutes |
| 09:39.59 | lpotter | muhoo: you wold have to compile it for qtopia -x11 |
| 09:40.08 | `pwgen` | leinir: you now christian jensen ? |
| 09:40.30 | muhoo | lpotter: hmm. thanks. ouch. maybe someone's done that already then. |
| 09:41.06 | ieatlint | muhoo, there are x11 terminal apps |
| 09:41.30 | tessier | just put the phone out on top of the car in the driveway |
| 09:41.39 | tessier | I'll leave it there for 15 and then 30 minutes and see what happens. |
| 09:42.04 | muhoo | ieatlint: yeah, there are tons of them. but how do i get them to show up in the qtopia launcher? and to use a keyboard that has all the control characters? |
| 09:42.08 | ieatlint | tessier, the phone will not get the best reception that way |
| 09:42.11 | tessier | ieatlint: So once it has a fix it will remember where it is and next time I use the gps app it will be faster? |
| 09:42.27 | tessier | ieatlint: Where would you suggest? |
| 09:42.28 | ieatlint | one thing i read said to put it in a ceramic mug, heh |
| 09:42.40 | tessier | I can put it on the ground. |
| 09:42.43 | ieatlint | a driveway is fine, it's the flat on it's back that's not optimal |
| 09:42.49 | tessier | ah |
| 09:42.54 | tessier | I'll see if I can stand it up then |
| 09:42.59 | ieatlint | and no, it won't be faster |
| 09:43.12 | ieatlint | the chip supports that concept, but the software doesn't -- yet |
| 09:43.28 | muhoo | is there a decent keyboard for ASU that'll let me do control, esc, /, |, and the like? |
| 09:43.32 | muhoo | ascii |
| 09:43.36 | muhoo | qwerty |
| 09:44.06 | tessier | ieatlint: So the GPS is pretty useless right now... |
| 09:44.12 | ieatlint | yep |
| 09:44.27 | leinir | `pwgen`: ehrm... the name doesn't ring a bell, i'm afraid :) |
| 09:44.27 | mjr | nope |
| 09:45.01 | muhoo | tessier: the GPS has been pumping out zeroes for days. no fixes. |
| 09:45.33 | muhoo | gpspipe -r 127.0.0.1 2947| awk -F, '/\$GPGGA/ {print (substr($3,0,2) + (substr($3,3) / 60.0)) $4, (s |
| 09:45.37 | muhoo | ubstr($5,0,3) + (substr($5,4) / 60.0)) $6}' |
| 09:46.20 | `pwgen` | ok allborg isn`t as small as i thought , |
| 09:46.30 | `pwgen` | s/allborg/aalborg/ |
| 09:47.16 | *** join/#openmoko Antenagora (n=antenago@147.162.137.1) |
| 09:48.54 | swc|666 | will have his FR in 4hrs 12mins |
| 09:49.12 | lpotter | leinir: not to osure., it works for me |
| 09:51.09 | emacsen | leinir, did you upgrade to the latest image? |
| 09:51.41 | kd8ikt | where is it? |
| 09:52.03 | *** join/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@host81-153-198-60.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 09:52.31 | muhoo | i just need a working, fully-functional keyboard applet for qtopia/ASU that'll work with an x11 terminal |
| 09:53.31 | *** join/#openmoko djsigfault (i=c0c6058f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c332d6522c669c20) |
| 09:55.08 | tessier | WOOHOO! |
| 09:55.09 | tessier | GPS works! |
| 09:55.25 | tessier | It took nearly 300 seconds but I got good fixes. |
| 09:55.36 | tessier | And the location is correct. It shows me my street name etc. |
| 09:55.48 | trickie | lucky duck |
| 09:55.59 | ozzloy | tessier: wooo! |
| 09:56.18 | ieatlint | that just on top of your car then? |
| 09:56.34 | tessier | ieatlint: Yeah. I propped it up on a windshield wiper so the GPS antenna is up. |
| 09:56.59 | kd8ikt | hm hope it wont always be that slow to grab a fix |
| 09:56.59 | ieatlint | well yay :) |
| 09:57.13 | tessier | kd8ikt: Me too. |
| 09:57.17 | mjr | that sounds like what you'd expect without assist |
| 09:57.18 | ozzloy | tessier: do you have an external gps antenna? |
| 09:57.20 | tessier | And I hope it eventually gets turn by turn directions etc. |
| 09:57.30 | tessier | ozzloy: No. This is with internal GPS. |
| 09:57.33 | mjr | well that's a map issue |
| 09:57.39 | ozzloy | \0/ |
| 09:57.46 | tessier | mjr: Yes but it's still software. |
| 09:57.58 | tessier | And it seems like the GPS could get a fix much faster if it didn't always start cold. |
| 09:57.59 | leinir | emacsen: Not yet, no - i'm about to :) |
| 09:58.02 | mjr | osm is currently suboptimal for car routing, not expressing many restrictions |
| 09:58.03 | leinir | lpotter: ok, thanks :) |
| 09:58.18 | tessier | mjr: osm? |
| 09:58.22 | mjr | openstreetmap |
| 09:58.25 | tessier | ah |
| 09:58.35 | tessier | mjr: Is that what tangogps uses? |
| 09:58.39 | mjr | yes |
| 09:58.41 | ozzloy | gnight |
| 09:58.42 | emacsen | leinir, I've been mostly happy |
| 09:58.45 | ozzloy | tessier: congrats |
| 09:58.49 | leinir | emacsen: Brilliant :) |
| 09:58.50 | mjr | (per default, anyway) |
| 09:58.51 | tessier | ozzloy: Thanks. night |
| 10:00.09 | mjr | tango doesn't do routing at all (currently), http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Rana might be something to look at if you want to try routing based on osm out but I don't know how fast it is... navit is another that does routing |
| 10:04.15 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-58-170-92-81.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 10:04.40 | tessier | This friends feature is pretty cool. I should register. |
| 10:05.37 | *** join/#openmoko xcasex (n=xcasex@ua-83-227-156-234.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 10:05.39 | ecraven | how do we hide the mouse pointer on the neo? |
| 10:07.47 | TeNoVi | When I do a "opkg update" I get "Signature check failed". Is that important? |
| 10:07.59 | muhoo | so what exactly *is* the "ASU"? is it a dead end? |
| 10:08.28 | muhoo | April was a long way ago, and August hasn't come up yet, but I'm wondering if this branch i'm on has any future |
| 10:08.42 | TeNoVi | And I get a "Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/Packages.sig, error 404" |
| 10:08.45 | HauDyrArb | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions |
| 10:08.55 | leinir | muhoo: It's the image that will be shipping on the proper mass market release - problem is sort of that the man writing it doesn't actually like what he's being forced to write for The Man, so to speak ;) |
| 10:09.33 | leinir | Luckily, however, anything written for it will eventually help when he begins writing a new stack based in part on his work there, and on the FSO image :) |
| 10:09.36 | muhoo | so the future is qtopia, using the openmoko packaging system? |
| 10:10.16 | muhoo | ok, i'm getting it now |
| 10:10.18 | leinir | The pure qtopia image is quite a different beast - primarily due to the fact it doesn't use an X server to show what's on screen |
| 10:10.28 | muhoo | ASU is the business thing. "give us something that works, goddammit!" |
| 10:10.38 | leinir | Not entirely... |
| 10:10.49 | *** join/#openmoko Antenagora_study (n=antenago@147.162.137.2) |
| 10:11.01 | muhoo | wheras FSO looks like the academic purist thing |
| 10:11.05 | leinir | They're making some interesting decisions on usability that clash quite heftily with the rest of the way the platform works |
| 10:11.32 | emacsen | muhoo, well not just qtopia... they're porting qtopia to X for example |
| 10:11.34 | muhoo | they, meaning trolltech? or the ASU team? or the FSO team? |
| 10:12.07 | leinir | muhoo: OpenMoko - they are telling raster what to do, and he just has to do it, basically :) |
| 10:12.14 | emacsen | muhoo, ASU is |
| 10:12.20 | JOSF | So, is there something going to be done with the MPEG4 problem for GTA-03 ? |
| 10:12.29 | *** part/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@host81-153-198-60.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:12.55 | JOSF | (to be honest, I do not plan to watch MPEG4 on a mobile phone, but it may be got for marketing reasons NOT to have reviews moaning about this) |
| 10:13.09 | muhoo | hah |
| 10:13.19 | *** join/#openmoko nubn (n=nubn@82-171-124-207.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 10:13.27 | JOSF | I am much more interested in keeping the velocity sensors in the coming versions of the hardware :) |
| 10:13.36 | muhoo | the wiki page for ASU says telephony is "between unstable and no", but it works perfectly for me |
| 10:13.38 | lpotter | qtopia was already ported to x by trolltech |
| 10:13.50 | muhoo | sms seems to work fine too |
| 10:13.51 | muhoo | so far |
| 10:13.51 | JOSF | Imagine: Shaking your mobile creates random numbers for your keypair ;-)) |
| 10:14.22 | leinir | muhoo: The information on there is already outdated - development is quite rapid ;) |
| 10:14.31 | leinir | Feel free to update it :) |
| 10:14.47 | JOSF | Or games like those I played hwn I was a child: They had holes and little balls and you neede to move the whole thing so, that all balls found a hole to rest in. |
| 10:15.54 | emacsen | my main concern as of this moment, other than when my InvisibleShield will arrive, is that since the move to qtopia and away from EDS and other gnome technologies, the issue of synchronization |
| 10:16.05 | emacsen | everything else is a known bug |
| 10:16.32 | emacsen | For all gnome gets wrong, they seem to throw a lot of effort into stuff like that |
| 10:17.05 | TeNoVi | Has anyone tested InvissibleShield? The full body protection or just the screen protection? |
| 10:17.20 | emacsen | TeNoVi, wait for tonight when mine is set to arrive |
| 10:17.26 | TeNoVi | ok |
| 10:17.34 | emacsen | tonight = ~14 hours |
| 10:17.35 | TAsnn | emacsen, how much was it? |
| 10:17.51 | emacsen | TAsnn, $24 US I believe, something like that |
| 10:18.03 | TAsnn | cool not that pricy :) |
| 10:18.13 | TAsnn | got a link to one suitable for the moko? |
| 10:18.31 | emacsen | for a sheet of plastic, it seemed a little high, but compared to the device, no, not high |
| 10:18.47 | emacsen | if you order, I have two, count em two coupons for 20% off |
| 10:19.01 | TAsnn | emacsen, it's not just plastic! it also has glue on it. |
| 10:19.02 | TAsnn | ;0 |
| 10:19.05 | Tanuva | at least its cut to fit the neo |
| 10:19.07 | emacsen | http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/cell-phone/openmoko |
| 10:19.17 | TeNoVi | Do they have free worldwide shipment? |
| 10:19.27 | muhoo | man it is out of date that wiki |
| 10:19.31 | muhoo | ASU definitely has python |
| 10:19.40 | muhoo | the system wouldn't run without it |
| 10:19.48 | Tanuva | TeNoVi: at least europe is possible for free |
| 10:19.49 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@83.68.218.53) |
| 10:19.56 | emacsen | muhoo, python is one thing, but AFAIK there are no qtopia bindings in pyqt |
| 10:20.01 | TAsnn | emacsen, is there a reason why i should want the full body and not just the screen? |
| 10:20.19 | emacsen | TAsnn, I have no idea. I don't have mine yet |
| 10:20.21 | flaushy | emacsen: how to get the coupons for zagg? |
| 10:20.35 | leinir | TAsnn: Nah, that's more for other, less sturdy devices *cough*iphone*cough* ;) |
| 10:20.41 | ecraven | hm.. can i setup distcc so it helps the FR with cross-compiling? |
| 10:20.48 | emacsen | flaushy, if you order, there's an area where it says coupon, right at the end. IM me then |
| 10:20.53 | TAsnn | leinir, exactly what i thought. |
| 10:20.55 | emacsen | I'll leave for work in about 40 mins |
| 10:21.03 | flaushy | okie thx :) |
| 10:21.06 | TAsnn | i will get only the screen :) |
| 10:21.18 | muhoo | emacsen: what? the wifi app in ASU is written in python with qt bindings |
| 10:21.24 | flaushy | emacsen: u have unlimited coupons? |
| 10:21.27 | emacsen | muhoo, is it? |
| 10:21.31 | muhoo | it's a pretty cool little app too |
| 10:21.45 | emacsen | flaushy, no, I have TWO coupons. That is I have one coupon, then another coupon, hence not telling everyone :) |
| 10:21.57 | muhoo | emacsen: yep, campwifi.py |
| 10:22.00 | flaushy | okie :) |
| 10:22.05 | flaushy | thx |
| 10:22.16 | emacsen | muhoo, hrm... I asked in #qtopia and was told that the bindings didn't exist. Will have to check |
| 10:22.25 | Tanuva | muhoo: but there arent any python-qt packages installed Oo |
| 10:22.29 | Tanuva | neither in the repo |
| 10:22.42 | muhoo | emacsen: http://pastebin.com/m65e90834 |
| 10:22.44 | emacsen | what does campwifi do? |
| 10:23.00 | muhoo | it's "etk" i guess |
| 10:23.02 | muhoo | whatever that is |
| 10:23.09 | emacsen | oh, enlightenment tool kit |
| 10:23.18 | kd8ikt | finger wifi app? |
| 10:23.27 | Tanuva | so no qt but enlightenment |
| 10:23.31 | emacsen | I'm using the qtopia image |
| 10:23.41 | muhoo | wait a minute |
| 10:23.51 | muhoo | how many graphical toolkits are on this thing?! |
| 10:23.52 | muhoo | 1) gtk |
| 10:23.57 | muhoo | 2) qtopia/qt |
| 10:23.59 | kd8ikt | too manny |
| 10:24.00 | emacsen | muhoo, no, gtk is depricated |
| 10:24.01 | TAsnn | emacsen, you better be here today and tell us how it is :) |
| 10:24.02 | muhoo | 3) enlightenment |
| 10:24.04 | TeNoVi | Is there an GUI to show and connect to wifi? (Standard openmoko image) |
| 10:24.15 | emacsen | 3) not all of enlightenment, just etk |
| 10:24.27 | TAsnn | i gotta know if it does anything to the performance of the touch screen! ;) |
| 10:24.30 | muhoo | TeNoVi: yes, in the ASU. it's this little script http://pastebin.com/m65e90834 |
| 10:24.44 | muhoo | the coolest thing abotu that script is the wifi.wifi python package, that does all the scanning and connecting |
| 10:25.08 | emacsen | the other concern I'd have about python apps, and maybe people will laugh, is if you run N python apps, that's N interpreters |
| 10:25.09 | ecraven | has anyone tried distcc with the Freerunner? |
| 10:25.15 | muhoo | it's a blast firing up a python interactive interpreter on my PHONE |
| 10:25.22 | muhoo | and using that to scan wifi networks :-) |
| 10:25.28 | tessier | opkg update gets me 404's when trying to download the packag lists. It's been doing this all day. Anyone know why? |
| 10:25.51 | muhoo | emacsen: i think a lot of it is implemented in shlibs |
| 10:25.53 | tessier | muhoo: It works well? |
| 10:26.05 | muhoo | tessier: as well as anything else on an openmoko phone :-) |
| 10:26.11 | Tanuva | tessier: sure its not just the signatures? |
| 10:26.11 | tessier | muhoo: I've been wondering how I would find open access points without some sort of discovery software |
| 10:26.13 | emacsen | lpotter, does this new image from today diddle the glamo the right way? |
| 10:26.24 | emacsen | so most of you are using asu? |
| 10:26.30 | *** join/#openmoko atul (n=qvantel@61.16.248.242) |
| 10:26.31 | TeNoVi | muhoo: How does that script work? Can I just place it in /usr/bin/python and then it just works?.. Sry, I'm not any good with this yet. I've just used Linux a cupple of years :S |
| 10:26.34 | tessier | Tanuva: Positive. I've seen the failed signature checks before. But this time it is getting 404's |
| 10:27.01 | muhoo | TeNoVi: just install the ASU image, and you get this for free |
| 10:27.15 | TeNoVi | hmm... |
| 10:27.25 | muhoo | TeNoVi: i have NFI if it'll even work on the other images |
| 10:27.45 | muhoo | dunno if they have that wifi python lib, or if they have ecore, or etk or whatever prerequisites |
| 10:27.49 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@91.184.75.76) |
| 10:28.17 | *** join/#openmoko methril|away (n=Methril@213.27.233.98) |
| 10:28.50 | tessier | Well, I've been playing with my phone for 3 hours now. Time for bed. night all |
| 10:29.05 | kd8ikt | 3hrs is nothin |
| 10:29.17 | Tanuva | muhoo: fso has enlightenment included |
| 10:29.17 | muhoo | damn this is so addicting, i've been at it since... OMG |
| 10:29.33 | muhoo | Tanuva: then it should work, why not, try it and see what happens |
| 10:29.38 | kd8ikt | ut yeah time for me to hit the hay aswell |
| 10:29.52 | Tanuva | wants qt on the neo >.< |
| 10:30.15 | muhoo | time: 03:29AM. time i started messign around with freerunner: 03:40PM |
| 10:30.19 | muhoo | 12 fucking hours |
| 10:30.28 | TeNoVi | muhoo: Is there a way to dualboot images on the Neo? |
| 10:30.29 | swc|666 | 329 am here too |
| 10:30.39 | *** join/#openmoko jOERG_rw (n=jr@p5493FB3F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:30.40 | *** join/#openmoko Sonicadvance1 (n=Sonic@69.92.97.122) |
| 10:30.43 | muhoo | TeNoVi: nfs boot or SD boot, yes |
| 10:30.52 | swc|666 | muhoo... where r u? |
| 10:30.59 | muhoo | swc|666: SFO |
| 10:31.15 | swc|666 | coo - seattle here |
| 10:31.28 | Tanuva | muhoo: update works here, just failing to get the sigs |
| 10:31.38 | TeNoVi | is away: I'm busy |
| 10:31.38 | Tanuva | ah. no. |
| 10:31.38 | swc|666 | pulling an all nighter so i can get my FR @ 7am from my group |
| 10:31.39 | Tanuva | damn |
| 10:31.55 | muhoo | IIRC the sigs aren't there anymore, and their absence doesn't break anything |
| 10:33.21 | Tanuva | but the packages.gz doesnt come either |
| 10:33.24 | muhoo | hah! |
| 10:33.44 | muhoo | i installed the matchbox keyboard, and i got three instances of them filling up the screen |
| 10:33.51 | muhoo | wheep wooow |
| 10:33.59 | Tanuva | argh, my resolv.conf was still default, why does this damn thing get reset after each reboot on the neo >.< |
| 10:34.16 | Tanuva | yeah, tricore typing engine :P |
| 10:34.54 | muhoo | oh this matchbox keyboard would be PERFECT if i can only get the damn thing to behave with ASU illume |
| 10:34.56 | Tanuva | now its getting the packages.gz successfully |
| 10:36.08 | *** join/#openmoko Nanotron (n=Nanotron@p54AE236C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:39.15 | TAsnn | Tanuva, i guess resolv,conf is being reset because you use some kind of dhcp client |
| 10:39.38 | TAsnn | aint got my neo yet so im not 100% sure about anything, though that's what im thinking. |
| 10:39.48 | TAsnn | *i think ( |
| 10:40.12 | Tanuva | nope, everything static here |
| 10:40.46 | TAsnn | i c. well no clue :) |
| 10:41.53 | Tanuva | hehe |
| 10:43.58 | TeNoVi | is back (gone 00:12:20) |
| 10:46.44 | TeNoVi | Hmm. Can anyone confirm the e-mail at the community list: Reason for GPS problems found! |
| 10:48.05 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-58-126.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:48.28 | abraxa_ | TeNoVi: Several people of the German community can |
| 10:48.32 | *** join/#openmoko opendeep (n=pradeep@61.16.248.242) |
| 10:48.34 | ieatlint | interesting... |
| 10:48.40 | TeNoVi | I'm off to test it now |
| 10:48.42 | ieatlint | i'll give it a try in a few min |
| 10:51.17 | *** join/#openmoko Zoup (n=Zoup@78.110.121.1) |
| 10:51.31 | Zoup | Dear all , where i can find blue prints , board maps and etc of free runner ? |
| 10:54.32 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
| 10:54.32 | abraxa_ | Zoup: They aren't public - OM first wants to make up for the R&D losses |
| 10:55.21 | Zoup | abraxa_: interesting , any more info on this ? |
| 10:56.45 | muhoo | really? i thought the CAD files were all public? |
| 10:57.10 | mjr | case cad files are |
| 10:57.16 | muhoo | ah |
| 10:57.33 | Tanuva | R&D? |
| 10:57.41 | TeNoVi | Hmm. I've already got contact with sattelits after 200 secs, but no fix :D Thats promising |
| 10:57.49 | muhoo | ok all, thanks for your help. going to sleep now |
| 10:57.54 | TeNoVi | Inndoor |
| 10:57.55 | abraxa_ | Tanuva: Research & Development |
| 10:57.58 | TeNoVi | *indoor |
| 10:58.01 | Tanuva | TeNoVi: I had a fix after 200sec and contact after ~100 - 150 I think |
| 10:58.36 | Tanuva | needs to find out how to modify the zhone start screen... |
| 10:59.28 | Ainulindale | Tanuva: it's a python script |
| 10:59.38 | emilis_info | what's the current status of zhone?: calls, sms, contacts? |
| 10:59.41 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201.45.49.162) |
| 10:59.44 | Tanuva | I know, but Im not at all familiar with etk |
| 10:59.54 | Tanuva | emilis_info: calls only |
| 10:59.59 | emilis_info | heh |
| 11:00.12 | emilis_info | I'll wait then |
| 11:00.15 | emilis_info | :) |
| 11:00.17 | TeNoVi | Yesterday it took me one and a half hour to just get contact indoor... |
| 11:00.39 | TeNoVi | But I still got no fix |
| 11:01.48 | ieatlint | i'm painfully watching a progress bar from dfu-util so i can go try this :P |
| 11:03.10 | *** join/#openmoko quickdev (n=quickdev@p5B0551C3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:03.28 | `pwgen` | emilis_info: calling / receving calls / partly apm working |
| 11:03.49 | `pwgen` | zhone i only a sample for the underlaying framework. |
| 11:06.04 | `pwgen` | s/i/is/ |
| 11:06.16 | emilis_info | understood |
| 11:06.28 | emilis_info | :) |
| 11:06.52 | emilis_info | I'll wait for calls+sms+contacts and then start using and coding on top of it |
| 11:07.23 | emilis_info | Because I use FR as my main phone... |
| 11:07.23 | emilis_info | :) |
| 11:07.43 | leinir | emilis_info: raster is expecting, once ASU is out the door, to move the stack over on FSO and remove the company-infused braindamage :) |
| 11:08.20 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-74-60.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 11:08.38 | `pwgen` | emilis_info: the api is already running, you can code what you will, there are only approches /samples/demos for the frameworkd |
| 11:08.54 | emilis_info | is ASU what I get if I do opkg update & upgrade? |
| 11:09.07 | TAsnn | emilis_info, i don't think so. |
| 11:09.07 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner * r4526 10/developers/werner/ahrt/host/tmc/ (python.c tmc.c usbtmc.c): (log message trimmed) |
| 11:09.07 | CIA-46 | openmoko: - usbtmc.c: added support for Rigol-specific protocol variations |
| 11:09.07 | CIA-46 | openmoko: - usbtmc.c (bulk_write): combined "dump", "usb_bulk_write", and error handling |
| 11:09.07 | CIA-46 | openmoko: into a single function |
| 11:09.07 | CIA-46 | openmoko: - python.c (tmc_py_read): return string such that it can also contain NUL |
| 11:09.11 | CIA-46 | openmoko: characters |
| 11:09.13 | CIA-46 | openmoko: - tmc.c (tmc_stop): pthread_join so that we race less when sending new |
| 11:09.13 | TAsnn | i think you should flash qtopia image.3 |
| 11:09.14 | beni_ | i thought FR knows SMS? |
| 11:09.49 | emilis_info | ok |
| 11:10.49 | *** join/#openmoko roudoudoudavid (n=roudoudo@gar31-1-82-224-8-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:12.11 | *** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 11:12.27 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:13.13 | ieatlint | i can confirm the microsd removal fix for gps |
| 11:13.39 | quickdev | ieatlint, you have the same issue? |
| 11:13.43 | ieatlint | went outside, in a non-optimal spot |
| 11:13.50 | *** join/#openmoko Mek (n=marijn@sd511660d.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 11:13.51 | ieatlint | 48s TTFF |
| 11:13.54 | TeNoVi | Hmm. I've got gps time after 200 secs, but still no fix after 1188 secs |
| 11:13.56 | quickdev | perfekt :) |
| 11:14.13 | quickdev | ieatlint, before it didn't work at all? |
| 11:14.37 | *** topic/#openmoko by cb22 -> Buy Freerunner at http://openmoko.com/ , or linked distributors. | Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates | Software means it's _NOT_ a stable phone, even for the expert user. This will change as more is developed. | #openmoko-cdevel for community dev efforts | Shipping status updates: http://xkcd.com/281/ | GPS prblem: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_GPS_antenna_repair_SOP | Possible GPS Fix: http://list |
| 11:14.38 | ieatlint | hell, i can see 4 sats from my desk and neither of my other 2 gps recievers can even see 1 |
| 11:14.41 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r8c17f29e2131 10/ (build dfu-uboot): Build scripts |
| 11:14.42 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r1ebdcad82c9c 10/cpu/arm920t/config.mk: stop-internetworking-warning.patch |
| 11:14.42 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r7e36139ffa3b 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: uboot-force-backlight-on.patch |
| 11:14.43 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03andy 07andy * ra5a7ebd4fb67 10/ (board/neo1973/common/jbt6k74.c drivers/video/smedia3362.c): uboot-fix-lcm-flicker.patch |
| 11:14.43 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r19a477b3d041 10/drivers/misc/pcf50633.c: fix-rtc_get_return.patch |
| 11:14.47 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03trimarchi 07andy * r4ec60973cf2e 10/cpu/arm920t/s3c24x0/nand_read.c: nand_skip_bad.patch |
| 11:14.47 | cb22 | guess the topic is too long |
| 11:14.50 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r78b9f3d35143 10/cpu/arm920t/start.S: add-find-wake-reason.patch |
| 11:14.52 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03andy 07andy * r96611475add0 10/board/neo1973/gta02/pcf50633.c: uboot-fix-OOCCTL-reset-phase.patch |
| 11:14.53 | ieatlint | quickdev, "yes" |
| 11:14.55 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r579930fbe92f 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-wait-silently.patch |
| 11:14.58 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r20716cb52c3e 10/board/neo1973/gta02/ (gta02.c pcf50633.c): deadbat-defer-ldo.patch |
| 11:14.58 | ieatlint | i got a fix with it before once |
| 11:15.01 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * rdfed9cc17ea6 10/board/neo1973/gta02/ (gta02.c pcf50633.c): deadbat-soft-start.patch |
| 11:15.04 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r6d0431712c07 10/ (board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c drivers/video/smedia3362.c): deadbat-defer-glamo.patch |
| 11:15.07 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r967bd3baccc1 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-cpu-idle.patch |
| 11:15.10 | ieatlint | on 3 other occasions, it managed to see 1 satellite, but never got any fix |
| 11:15.11 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * rd96e96d5eec2 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-cpu-200.patch |
| 11:15.13 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r9f788dcc9c67 10/cpu/arm920t/start.S: fix-early-upll.patch |
| 11:15.15 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * rb663ea63563e 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-gta02v5-noled.patch |
| 11:15.18 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r1e1410ba46c6 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-alternate.patch |
| 11:15.23 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r53c9bd51b52f 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-safe-voltage.patch |
| 11:15.36 | *** topic/#openmoko by cb22 -> Buy Freerunner at http://openmoko.com/ , or linked distributors. | Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates | Software means it's _NOT_ a stable phone, even for the expert user. This will change as more is developed. | #openmoko-cdevel for community dev efforts | GPS prblems: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_GPS_antenna_repair_SOP and http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021774.html |
| 11:16.01 | ecraven | yay! got chicken scheme + sdl + cairo working on the FR |
| 11:16.18 | emilis_info | what do you use for gps testing? |
| 11:16.40 | *** join/#openmoko ralisi (n=raphael@91-66-238-33-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 11:16.40 | `pwgen` | gpsd |
| 11:16.50 | ieatlint | i was using openmoko-agpsui |
| 11:17.32 | ieatlint | i don't know if this is really good or bad... the last thing i want to do is choose between an sd card or the gps |
| 11:17.41 | TAsnn | hehe i agree |
| 11:17.46 | ieatlint | i guess better to have the choice than not.. but still |
| 11:17.56 | quickdev | ieatlint, did you try the most recent kernel? maybe there are some sdcard related changes? |
| 11:17.57 | TAsnn | it's better to have both ;0 |
| 11:18.15 | TAsnn | quickdev, i think it's the sd card itself blocking the signal. |
| 11:18.21 | zedstar | ecraven: did u build a current version of chicken scheme and package it? |
| 11:18.25 | ieatlint | quickdev, i previously used the ASU from 7/13 |
| 11:18.29 | ecraven | zedstar: i installed debian ;) |
| 11:18.39 | ieatlint | right now i just flashed the 7/15 image on it to try |
| 11:18.41 | ecraven | and copied Xglamo and libts from 2007.2 |
| 11:18.51 | emacsen | ecraven, have you posted that to the list? |
| 11:18.58 | ecraven | just barely fits on 500 mb |
| 11:19.02 | ecraven | if i remove most of the locales |
| 11:19.04 | emacsen | ecraven, I know unknown_lamer is focused on guile |
| 11:19.08 | ecraven | i will, when i have a "demo" app |
| 11:19.11 | ecraven | i don't like guile at all ;) |
| 11:19.17 | zedstar | ecraven: where is the arm deb of chicken scheme? |
| 11:19.28 | ieatlint | a cold fix in 48s... that just seems insane |
| 11:19.29 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-143.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 11:19.39 | ieatlint | are we sure the gps firmware isn't caching its last fix? |
| 11:19.54 | ieatlint | i got it to fix once before, albeit about 90km from where i just got this fix |
| 11:20.09 | emacsen | ecraven, I love how insanely pedantic schemers are "I love lisp." "Lisp 1 or 2?" "One" "I love scheme" "Me too" "I love guile" "YOU BASTARD, YOU MUST DIE NOW!" |
| 11:20.26 | ecraven | zedstar: normal debian repositories |
| 11:20.30 | quickdev | TAsnn, that little sd card? It would take me by surprise ;) |
| 11:20.33 | ecraven | emacsen: hehe, of course! |
| 11:21.00 | ieatlint | well, as the mailing list post theorises, EMC... it makes sense |
| 11:21.04 | zedstar | ecraven: ok cool....there is an ipk of chicken scheme btw but is a few versions old |
| 11:21.06 | Ainulindale | Well, a simple test here |
| 11:21.06 | emacsen | ecraven, maybe if I posted that I'd add "Scheme R5 or R6?" or something of the sort |
| 11:21.11 | Ainulindale | Went outside without the SD card |
| 11:21.14 | Ainulindale | TTFF 62s |
| 11:21.18 | Ainulindale | Cold reset, TTFF 1s |
| 11:21.31 | Ainulindale | (inside, it's still a bit harder) |
| 11:21.33 | Ainulindale | (But then I have signal) |
| 11:21.43 | ecraven | so the sd card is blocking the signal? |
| 11:21.48 | quickdev | Ainulindale, TTFF 1s is a coincidence ;) |
| 11:21.50 | ieatlint | no, the sd card isn't |
| 11:21.55 | Ainulindale | quickdev: Yep |
| 11:22.12 | ieatlint | the idea is that the communication with the sd creates electrical interference for the gps |
| 11:22.57 | quickdev | ieatlint, why does it concern only a few devices? |
| 11:23.00 | Zoup | ieatlint: is that an issue only when you are using sat phones ? |
| 11:23.11 | ieatlint | quickdev, it concerns all |
| 11:23.20 | ieatlint | people who had gps working before had very crappy signal |
| 11:23.27 | ieatlint | several minutes for a fix, etc |
| 11:23.27 | quickdev | ieatlint, but some more or less? |
| 11:23.36 | ieatlint | geography methinks |
| 11:23.40 | zedstar | ecraven: i gave up packaging chicken scheme a while back as didnt think there was much interest from users here |
| 11:23.46 | ieatlint | some places just get better signal |
| 11:23.48 | quickdev | ieatlint, I tested mine some hours ago - in my car, TTF 1 minute and 10 satellites when driving |
| 11:24.00 | ecraven | zedstar: i want some scheme, and chicken seems the easiest, and it has dbus/sdl/cairo bindings |
| 11:24.00 | TeNoVi | I've got a fix.... Faster than ever but still slow. Fix after 1734 secs, inside and rainy weather |
| 11:24.01 | ieatlint | or the time of day you try... the sats are orbiting |
| 11:24.16 | emdete | ieatlint: this is not true, i have a prototype that is working fine |
| 11:24.30 | emdete | ieatlint: sd inserted, fix in 1-3min which is normal |
| 11:24.32 | ieatlint | this is truly weird |
| 11:24.37 | zedstar | ecraven: yeh chicken scheme rocks IMO anyway |
| 11:25.07 | ieatlint | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:FR_SIM_SD_open.jpg shows the socket for the sd |
| 11:25.14 | ieatlint | is this the same as yours emdete ? |
| 11:25.36 | quickdev | the golden thing is the gps connector? |
| 11:25.45 | ieatlint | yes |
| 11:25.56 | ieatlint | that thing on the right in that pic is the antenna connector for the gps |
| 11:26.01 | ieatlint | (for the internal antenna) |
| 11:26.17 | emdete | ieatlint: i have a gta01 that does nit work, a prototype gta02 that works and a mp gta02 that does not |
| 11:26.50 | quickdev | is it possible that two batches of sd-cards are in the wild? |
| 11:26.53 | ieatlint | someone get some bubble gum wrappers, put the foil side up and the sd card on top of it :P |
| 11:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko apol (i=apol@62.57.51.21.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 11:27.54 | ieatlint | i really don't see how it could be the sd card itself... |
| 11:28.19 | emdete | ieatlint: yes, for the prototype its exactly the design |
| 11:29.36 | ieatlint | i wish i had saved some of those antistatic bags |
| 11:29.53 | *** join/#openmoko mmaestri (i=a8e22868@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8192ee39c4cac7df) |
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| 11:33.28 | quickdev | emacsen, do you have a sandisk 512mb card? |
| 11:33.37 | quickdev | *emdete |
| 11:34.06 | emdete | quickdev: i use the card that came with the device |
| 11:35.36 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r3f38474f96a3 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-wait-silently.patch |
| 11:35.37 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r77ef5a9f9200 10/board/neo1973/gta02/ (gta02.c pcf50633.c): deadbat-defer-ldo.patch |
| 11:35.38 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07stable * rce1e253ee6e7 10/board/neo1973/gta02/ (gta02.c pcf50633.c): deadbat-soft-start.patch |
| 11:35.39 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r1e126c864247 10/ (board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c drivers/video/smedia3362.c): deadbat-defer-glamo.patch |
| 11:35.41 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r0f0533a0434c 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-cpu-idle.patch |
| 11:35.44 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r539eeece8bb0 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-cpu-200.patch |
| 11:35.47 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07stable * rcd57a43e495d 10/cpu/arm920t/start.S: fix-early-upll.patch |
| 11:35.49 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r718426fdc01e 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-gta02v5-noled.patch |
| 11:35.52 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r8fa55aac744e 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-alternate.patch |
| 11:35.55 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07stable * r4c53f3417cd7 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-safe-voltage.patch |
| 11:36.16 | ieatlint | lots of updates :) |
| 11:36.23 | ieatlint | dead battery fixes sound good |
| 11:36.31 | ieatlint | as does a driver for the smedia chip |
| 11:37.01 | Zoup | why they are still under /neo1973 direcotry ? |
| 11:37.44 | ieatlint | perhaps they're a bit nostalgic |
| 11:37.56 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r3f38474f96a3 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-wait-silently.patch |
| 11:37.56 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r77ef5a9f9200 10/board/neo1973/gta02/ (gta02.c pcf50633.c): deadbat-defer-ldo.patch |
| 11:37.57 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * rce1e253ee6e7 10/board/neo1973/gta02/ (gta02.c pcf50633.c): deadbat-soft-start.patch |
| 11:37.57 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r1e126c864247 10/ (board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c drivers/video/smedia3362.c): deadbat-defer-glamo.patch |
| 11:38.00 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r0f0533a0434c 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-cpu-idle.patch |
| 11:38.02 | Zoup | hehe |
| 11:38.02 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r539eeece8bb0 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-cpu-200.patch |
| 11:38.04 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * rcd57a43e495d 10/cpu/arm920t/start.S: fix-early-upll.patch |
| 11:38.06 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r718426fdc01e 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-gta02v5-noled.patch |
| 11:38.09 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r8fa55aac744e 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-alternate.patch |
| 11:38.12 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner 07andy * r4c53f3417cd7 10/board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c: deadbat-safe-voltage.patch |
| 11:38.51 | *** join/#openmoko cnwdup (n=harlekin@hnvr-4dbd6fbd.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 11:40.37 | swc|666 | gj werner |
| 11:40.46 | swc|666 | andy |
| 11:40.49 | swc|666 | ++ |
| 11:42.44 | *** join/#openmoko xMDKx (n=mdkcore@nat/mandriva/x-20bbb3dd7a84bb5d) |
| 11:44.14 | beni_ | is the internal gps antenna damaged? |
| 11:45.14 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@83.68.218.53) |
| 11:45.47 | swc|666 | beni_, possibly... its random iirc |
| 11:45.57 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl (n=bumbl@91-113-62-86.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 11:49.08 | abraxa_ | beni_: The antenna appears fine - noise seems the major factor |
| 11:49.12 | beni_ | but hardware isn't random usually - maybe the assembly process damages the antenna somehow under some circumstances that where not present at the release candidate |
| 11:49.36 | beni_ | sd card bad? |
| 11:49.44 | beni_ | or some wiring inside the phone? |
| 11:50.03 | ieatlint | the battery creates a bigger shield than the sd card |
| 11:50.40 | *** join/#openmoko TeNoVi (n=runegang@157.82-134-47.bkkb.no) |
| 11:51.05 | swc|666 | beni_, the assembly i think is correct |
| 11:51.17 | swc|666 | for the problems* |
| 11:51.37 | ieatlint | you expect me to believe that china did a substandard job? |
| 11:51.38 | ieatlint | hah. |
| 11:52.42 | *** join/#openmoko Hoolxi (n=ooooops@58.33.111.202) |
| 11:52.52 | *** join/#openmoko cedric (n=cedric@enlightenment/developer/cedric) |
| 11:53.36 | swc|666 | ieatlint, lol! |
| 11:53.49 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
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| 11:55.37 | *** join/#openmoko ebbe (n=ebbe@users173.kollegienet.dk) |
| 11:55.46 | BlackFog | hi |
| 11:56.20 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 11:56.30 | beni_ | fortunately there are ppl on this problem. |
| 11:56.52 | beni_ | unfortunately i now have fear to get a FR with hardware problems |
| 11:57.02 | ebbe | Wow. What just happened with tangogps.org? |
| 11:57.09 | beni_ | gps is one of the features i liked most on fr |
| 11:57.10 | mjr | Yes well. I'm hoping for an on-line kludge to fix it... |
| 11:57.26 | mjr | but we'll see |
| 11:58.00 | ieatlint | someone will test it and see |
| 11:58.53 | ieatlint | someone who is confident in their soldering ability could test it |
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| 12:17.50 | TeNoVi | Hmm. I ran "opkg upgrade", and the phone downloaded some stuff. Now it is has quit X and some text is scrolling over the screen. The same text over and over again. Something like "pcf50633_irq:entering(irq=53, pcf=c7d34c00): scheduling work, and something more... It's hard to read |
| 12:17.53 | TeNoVi | What is it? |
| 12:18.24 | TeNoVi | I'm afraid to turn of the phone in case there is something that can damage anything |
| 12:18.41 | ieatlint | sounds like a crash of sorts |
| 12:18.52 | abraxa_ | TeNoVi: The PCF50633 is the power management chip, it's normal kernel debug output |
| 12:18.56 | TeNoVi | What should I do? |
| 12:18.59 | abraxa_ | TeNoVi: It simply means that X crashed |
| 12:19.11 | abraxa_ | Reboot :) |
| 12:19.16 | TeNoVi | hmm. Should I take out the battery? |
| 12:19.22 | ieatlint | also, you cannot hurt your freerunner with software unless you're using a debug board |
| 12:19.29 | TeNoVi | hmm, okey |
| 12:19.35 | SpeedEvil | pulling the battery is safe. |
| 12:19.39 | *** join/#openmoko tubastian (n=tubastia@pD9547478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:19.48 | TeNoVi | I manage to ssh to it |
| 12:19.48 | abraxa_ | ieatlint: Actually, someone managed to. He borked his u-boot_env |
| 12:19.52 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: or unless you flash the uboot partition over 1000 times. |
| 12:20.03 | TeNoVi | I ran shutdown |
| 12:20.07 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_:that shouldnb't bork the NOR rescue partiotion thouhg? |
| 12:20.13 | TeNoVi | That seemed to work |
| 12:20.22 | ieatlint | yeah, from i understood there were two backups |
| 12:20.46 | ieatlint | and uboot only has 1000 writes? |
| 12:21.23 | TeNoVi | Do you know why x crashed? Any reason? """ Oh, I've got a coupple of boots in the booting :P( |
| 12:21.26 | TeNoVi | *) |
| 12:21.28 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Noooo idea what he did. He claimed that NOR and NAND u-boot access the same u-boot_env, though that's a bit hard to believe indeed |
| 12:21.30 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: the first block of the NAND has no error correction. |
| 12:21.50 | ieatlint | and NOR? |
| 12:21.57 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: and is rated for only 1000 writes |
| 12:22.02 | SpeedEvil | (without errors) |
| 12:22.04 | TeNoVi | At least I've got a coupple of boots for two secounds |
| 12:23.03 | TeNoVi | What callendar is "standard" in Openmoko? I can see the callendar icon, but cannot open it |
| 12:23.23 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - that's not properly setup at the moment. |
| 12:23.31 | SpeedEvil | It needs to launch a chooser. |
| 12:23.43 | TeNoVi | hmm |
| 12:23.47 | SpeedEvil | That pops up a python, c or c++ development environment, so you can write one. |
| 12:24.17 | ieatlint | SpeedEvil, so if NAND gets corrupted, NOR can still boot it though, correct? |
| 12:24.26 | ieatlint | and is NOR even readonly? |
| 12:25.32 | andred | does anybody know why gtk-apps do not appear in the ASU launcher? |
| 12:25.33 | mjr | it's read only if you don't have a debug board |
| 12:26.50 | raster | andred: nothng to do with gtk. if the app provides a snatdnard .desktop file |
| 12:26.53 | raster | with categories set |
| 12:26.59 | raster | so it shows in a snatnard menu |
| 12:27.04 | raster | like it would on your desktop linux box |
| 12:27.10 | raster | it will appear in the launcher in asu |
| 12:27.16 | raster | the asu launcher (part of illume/e) |
| 12:27.24 | raster | uses the freedesktop.org menu file spec |
| 12:27.28 | quickdev | Did anyone already test tangogps with local map data? |
| 12:27.38 | raster | same as the "start: menu u seein gnome/kde/e/xfce |
| 12:28.05 | abraxa_ | ieatlint: NOR is read-only unless you have a debug board |
| 12:28.08 | retracile | *refresh* Woot! it's in Mesquite. c'mon, c'mon... :) |
| 12:28.21 | andred | raster: i installed openmoko-terminal2 from the standard repository for example and it doesn't show up |
| 12:28.34 | andred | raster: although the .desktop file is in place and looks sane |
| 12:28.57 | ebbe | quickdev: Local map data? |
| 12:29.24 | quickdev | ebbe, it's possible to download for example the map data of germany - is it possible to use this with tango? |
| 12:30.18 | ebbe | quickdev: From where? ASU? I think that is for the 'ASU' gps-program |
| 12:31.04 | quickdev | ebbe, in general - with tangogps |
| 12:31.12 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@vpn1-49.tu-graz.ac.at) |
| 12:32.04 | feitingen | raster: sorry to bother, but do you have some tips on setting up a build environment for openmoko? |
| 12:32.28 | ebbe | quickdev: TangoGPS needs images. If you're thinking of data for routing software, it will not work. Try navit instead |
| 12:32.51 | abraxa_ | feitingen: Search the wiki for toolchain - or if you're brave and don't mind steep learning curves, use OpenEmbedded through MokoMakefile |
| 12:33.11 | raster | andred: as i said. if it has a.desktop.. WITH CATAGORIES set...(theres als an exception if it has System & Settings in categories its filtered out as its assumed to be a system configuration app) |
| 12:33.15 | quickdev | feitingen, toolchain will be the easiest option ;) |
| 12:33.19 | feitingen | thanks |
| 12:33.21 | raster | feitingen: mokomakefile |
| 12:34.17 | andred | raster: the openmoko-terminal has "Categories=GTK;Application;Utilities" and yet it doesn't show up :) |
| 12:36.54 | raster | it may have something else missing |
| 12:37.00 | raster | i KNOW in gneral .desktops work |
| 12:37.18 | raster | i have made my own packages with test apps that put .desktop files in /usr/share/applications |
| 12:37.20 | raster | and they show up |
| 12:39.16 | feitingen | my openmoko-terminal.desktop has Categories=GTK;Application;Utilities; and it shows up perfectly |
| 12:39.43 | *** join/#openmoko larry_jr (n=Larry@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:39.54 | andred | feitingen: in ASU? |
| 12:40.58 | feitingen | asu? |
| 12:42.27 | *** join/#openmoko WielkiTost (n=Wielki@dhe3.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
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| 12:44.08 | webar7 | is there a prebuilt package repo? I'd like fetchmail :) |
| 12:45.16 | *** join/#openmoko sledgeas (n=leleiva@galahad.fbk.eu) |
| 12:45.20 | sledgeas | hello |
| 12:46.30 | quickdev | hi sledgeas |
| 12:47.22 | sledgeas | old paste: (02:16:23 PM) sledgeas: Guilt: buy from openmoko store: "GSM 900Mhz variant stock is due on on July 25th" (yesterday it was july 15th) |
| 12:47.22 | sledgeas | (02:21:15 PM) abraxa_: sledgeas: I'd assume it has to do with the newly discovered NOR and GPS issues |
| 12:47.49 | sledgeas | does this mean, they are fixing the hardware issues? |
| 12:48.32 | cb22 | NOR issue? |
| 12:48.41 | feitingen | sledgeas: i heard it was a typo? |
| 12:49.14 | TeNoVi | 15th was a typo i heard |
| 12:49.20 | sledgeas | oh |
| 12:49.32 | sledgeas | so there is no way that they are fixing the hardware? |
| 12:49.35 | ieatlint | i heard a week ago or so that 900mhz was due in the 25th |
| 12:49.52 | sledgeas | (GPS soldering, and µSD card issue) |
| 12:49.55 | ieatlint | they can't fix the hardware that fast, especially when the exact problem isn't confirmed |
| 12:50.01 | *** join/#openmoko Valahano (n=Valahano@78-60-12-245.static.zebra.lt) |
| 12:50.47 | sledgeas | riite.. |
| 12:51.31 | IXian-probe | btw. I'm testing the GPS on two GTA02 without SD cards... both has suddenly become capable of even indoors tracking in my apartment.. ^_^ |
| 12:52.17 | *** join/#openmoko Blackhorn (n=Yann@78.113.254.38) |
| 12:54.32 | abraxa_ | sledgeas: It was just an assumption - I guess it's not true then :) |
| 12:54.43 | sledgeas | :) |
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| 12:57.59 | Lo-lan-do | Hi all |
| 12:58.11 | Lo-lan-do | Yay for working GPS :-) |
| 12:58.28 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@vpn32-043.rz.fh-offenburg.de) |
| 12:58.29 | sledgeas | without µSD :( |
| 12:59.03 | Mirv | yay for finding the culprit at least |
| 12:59.36 | *** join/#openmoko ascot (n=ascot@vpn1-25.tu-graz.ac.at) |
| 12:59.40 | vpv | hopefully there'd be a fix for the already sold devices... |
| 12:59.46 | Lo-lan-do | But for some reason, it gives me results that are about 1km off... |
| 12:59.56 | Mirv | I'm experimenting a bit with putting something between the sd card (reader) and gps antenna connector, but I think it's not helping |
| 13:00.17 | Lo-lan-do | Is that known/fixable? |
| 13:00.37 | abraxa_ | Lo-lan-do: Let it see more satellites |
| 13:00.55 | Lo-lan-do | It does that even with 8 satellites in sight. |
| 13:01.07 | abraxa_ | That's odd then |
| 13:01.25 | sledgeas | Mirv: probably the pins of SD which come in contact short something for GPS in the circuits (hope not though :)) |
| 13:01.26 | Lo-lan-do | Maybe it's just agpsui. |
| 13:01.58 | Lo-lan-do | Although TangoGPS shows me about 200km off. Apparently it rounds lat/long to integers. |
| 13:02.03 | edistar_ | Lo-lan-do: I don't get wrong results with agpsui |
| 13:02.15 | *** join/#openmoko MrShlee (i=MrShlee@202-6-128-136.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 13:02.27 | Lo-lan-do | I'll walk around outside later today. |
| 13:02.52 | ieatlint | pins aren't being shorted |
| 13:02.59 | ieatlint | you'd definitely know if that were happening |
| 13:04.23 | sledgeas | well, just a bit, lmao (it doesn't kill off the signal, too) |
| 13:05.09 | *** join/#openmoko Tig| (n=tigger@82.153.215.237) |
| 13:06.39 | Dave | :) |
| 13:06.45 | Dave | Ecraven |
| 13:07.01 | ecraven | hey dave ;) |
| 13:07.29 | *** join/#openmoko Nanotron (n=Nanotron@p54AE236C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:08.26 | andred | raster: it does show up if i add the "Office" category |
| 13:08.47 | andred | hopes he didn't set any filter or something like that |
| 13:10.44 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@h67-212.rz.fh-offenburg.de) |
| 13:11.01 | *** join/#openmoko newb (n=abhi@124.124.12.157) |
| 13:11.22 | *** join/#openmoko billk (n=upirc@203.59.139.8) |
| 13:12.53 | andred | ok, it shows up as soon as it contains a fdo standard category. the OM2007.2 .desktop files don't, unfortunately |
| 13:13.05 | sledgeas | are there cases where GPS works with SD card like nothing happened? and what is the percentage? |
| 13:13.21 | *** join/#openmoko Nanotron (n=Nanotron@p54AE236C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:14.10 | abraxa_ | sledgeas: One of emdete's GTA02 is that way |
| 13:14.47 | ieatlint | a dev model, though, not a general production one |
| 13:15.35 | abraxa_ | ieatlint: Which should be 100% identical in that area (microSD + GPS) |
| 13:15.37 | *** join/#openmoko TeNoVi_ (n=runegang@157.82-134-47.bkkb.no) |
| 13:16.18 | *** join/#openmoko weatherhead (n=danw_ups@cpc1-midd4-0-0-cust684.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 13:16.33 | ieatlint | it should be, yes |
| 13:16.45 | *** part/#openmoko billk (n=upirc@203.59.139.8) |
| 13:16.55 | *** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (n=AntonTak@64.81.101.148) |
| 13:17.05 | ieatlint | but would they have approved the design for final production if test productions showed such an obvious gps issue? |
| 13:17.46 | raster | andred: they jo of standards :) |
| 13:17.48 | raster | joy |
| 13:17.49 | raster | :) |
| 13:18.08 | raster | thats due to the applications.menu only listing things with standard categories |
| 13:18.39 | *** join/#openmoko TeNoVi_ (n=runegang@157.82-134-47.bkkb.no) |
| 13:18.48 | Elleo | if the sd is inserted after a fix has been acquired does it lose the fix? or is reduced signal quality not such an issue first fix? |
| 13:19.02 | Elleo | issue after first fix* |
| 13:19.55 | Lo-lan-do | Hah, found the bug. |
| 13:20.22 | Lo-lan-do | TangoGPS rounds the lat/long to a degree, but agpsui rounds them to a minute. |
| 13:20.31 | HauDyrArb | Lo-lan-do, then squish it |
| 13:20.35 | raster | thats silly |
| 13:20.44 | Lo-lan-do | Since I live neither on a pure meridian/parallel nor on a minute one, I get wrong positions. |
| 13:20.46 | raster | rounding to such coarse granularity is nigh useless |
| 13:21.00 | raster | gps can give accuracy to about 10m |
| 13:21.10 | sledgeas | that's how you get 1 km offset, Lo-lan-do |
| 13:21.12 | sledgeas | ? |
| 13:21.27 | Lo-lan-do | Yup. |
| 13:21.27 | raster | thats about seconds |
| 13:21.33 | raster | thats about 3 seconds |
| 13:21.42 | Mirv | Elleo: when I managed to get a fix with SD card in place, it stayed extremely well |
| 13:21.44 | Lo-lan-do | 26 seconds. |
| 13:21.58 | raster | so rounding even tothe nearest minute reduces accuracy by a factor of 20 |
| 13:22.01 | Mirv | can the SD card reader be powered off via software? |
| 13:22.15 | sledgeas | Mirv: but he asks about getting a quick fix w/o SD, and t hen re-inserting it |
| 13:22.21 | Elleo | Mirv: okay, one of my main uses for the freerunner is to be hacking on mapping type stuff, so sd + gps is pretty important to me ;) |
| 13:22.28 | raster | the sd card reading is provided by the glamo |
| 13:22.36 | sledgeas | Elleo: same here |
| 13:22.37 | cb22 | hmm |
| 13:22.38 | Elleo | so if it maintains a fix after the sd has been inserted that's a satisfactory work around for me |
| 13:22.39 | Mirv | sledgeas: yes I know, I wonder if it would be similar to just powering off the reader while getting the first fix |
| 13:22.45 | Mirv | Elleo: same here |
| 13:22.46 | raster | we are not sure if its the actual sd card housing and wiring |
| 13:22.59 | raster | or the glamo cuasing interference when an sd card is in and owered up |
| 13:23.03 | cb22 | worries that it will have something weird to do with the glamo |
| 13:23.08 | raster | but sd card reading is done by the glamo |
| 13:23.11 | cb22 | (what raster just said) |
| 13:23.24 | raster | so powering off the glamo may help |
| 13:23.24 | AntonTakk | hi all, i just got my freerunner last night, so far, everything seems to work fine - except making/receiving calls/sms - i keep getting the message 'Method "Dial" with signature "s" on interface "org.openmoko.PhoneKit.Dialer" doesn't exist' - seems to be this bug on the trac: http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1079 |
| 13:23.31 | raster | but that will nicely leave you with no display |
| 13:23.41 | *** part/#openmoko Lo-lan-do (n=roland@mirenboite.placard.fr.eu.org) |
| 13:23.42 | raster | and this also would explain neu1973 vs freerunner |
| 13:23.44 | raster | as glamo was added |
| 13:23.50 | raster | and sd moved to the glamo |
| 13:23.55 | raster | and that kind of makes sense |
| 13:24.00 | raster | it may be too early to say |
| 13:24.08 | Mirv | so, powering off glamo and when you hear "beep" (fix gotten), you can push a button to power up glamo again?-) |
| 13:24.11 | raster | but strike one more for the glamo on suckiness. |
| 13:24.16 | AntonTakk | but that bug on trac doesn't seem to tell how to fix the problem |
| 13:24.35 | cb22 | anyone out there with a freerunner and some tinfoil? |
| 13:24.43 | *** join/#openmoko b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141231.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 13:24.45 | Xaos | do hats count? |
| 13:24.55 | raster | (again 0- may be too early to say, but i can't resist poking at the glamo again.. it's my favorite culprit to blame for almost anything) |
| 13:25.08 | Elleo | heh |
| 13:25.17 | cb22 | the polar icecaps are melting... that damn glamo! |
| 13:25.28 | raster | damn glamo! |
| 13:25.28 | Mirv | cb22: I tried to put some tinfoil wrapped in some tape and put that between the GPS connector and card reader (it fit some way in between them), but it didn't help |
| 13:25.34 | raster | i'm hungry |
| 13:25.37 | sledgeas | Mirv: the question is: did you effectively try to get a fix w/o SD card, and then re-inserting it? |
| 13:25.38 | raster | damn glamo! |
| 13:25.41 | raster | :) |
| 13:26.03 | cb22 | well... |
| 13:26.04 | sledgeas | and if no, could you please try it for us with Elleo :) |
| 13:26.26 | mjr | sledgeas, well if he already held acquired fixes fine with a card, is there any bloody difference? |
| 13:26.38 | Mirv | sledgeas: I haven't tried that, dunno how could I reinsert the SD card without removing battery. and what mjr said ^ |
| 13:26.38 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFDAE5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:26.45 | cb22 | is there an external gps antenna with the same gain as the internal one? |
| 13:26.55 | cb22 | Mirv: keep it powered over usb |
| 13:26.57 | raster | Mirv: kep fr plugged into usb for power |
| 13:27.03 | Mirv | (right) |
| 13:27.12 | raster | cb22: jinx |
| 13:27.13 | raster | :) |
| 13:27.15 | sledgeas | :):) |
| 13:27.29 | *** join/#openmoko exastra (n=go@75.148.80.90) |
| 13:27.40 | notcb22 | cb22 |
| 13:27.44 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@220-136-176-197.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 13:27.45 | cb22 | there :p |
| 13:27.52 | Xaos | cool...so the FR can remain powered without battery as long as it's plugged into USB? that's awesome! |
| 13:27.58 | thomasg | so, who else is soldering the glamo out right now? :) |
| 13:28.10 | Mirv | what I mean is that here where I don't get any fixes with the card inserted, I could keep the fix I acquired elsewhere just fine even with the card |
| 13:28.10 | Xaos | should be receiving his FR today! Yippee! |
| 13:28.17 | AntonTakk | i know 2007.2 is the official recommended image, but have any of you tried asu? how solid is it telephony wise? |
| 13:28.33 | Mirv | and I assume the same happens if I got the fix without the card first and then inserted the card |
| 13:28.39 | cb22 | what would be interesting is to know if the external antennas get a fix because they are external, or because they jut provide a lot more gain then the internal one, offsetting the noise/whatever from the sd card |
| 13:28.44 | sledgeas | mjr: if he got fix _faster_ w/o SD (that's the thing, and not waiting for minutes to get a fix with SD on the openest area), we wonder of the fix is lost after he re-inserts it |
| 13:28.58 | sledgeas | i.ei fix/updates/signal strength |
| 13:29.21 | mjr | sledgeas, why would it be? |
| 13:29.44 | cb22 | AntonTakk: the last i heard, about as solid as an ideal gas |
| 13:30.23 | AntonTakk | .....sorry, not much of a chemist here :) |
| 13:30.30 | Elleo | a more meaningful test would be if he was in an area where he couldn't get a fix without removing the sd, then see if it's lost upon insertion |
| 13:30.33 | sledgeas | mjr: ask Elleo, why |
| 13:30.44 | newb | :( i want my freerunner |
| 13:31.03 | newb | santa be nice and send me one fast |
| 13:31.09 | sledgeas | that's what i've been trying to explain, thanks Elleo |
| 13:31.23 | *** join/#openmoko polz_ (n=polz@cpe-92-37-20-82.dynamic.amis.net) |
| 13:32.12 | *** join/#openmoko Sascha (n=sisawess@cssun.rrze.uni-erlangen.de) |
| 13:32.44 | SpeedEvil | plays the new openmoko theme. |
| 13:32.52 | Mirv | Elleo: well, one example that I can't get a fix without SD here inside this building, but when I got the fix elsewhere and had the card in, it was kept inside this building |
| 13:32.58 | SpeedEvil | To the Tune of Blame Canada. |
| 13:33.06 | Elleo | Mirv: okay, that's encouraging |
| 13:33.08 | SpeedEvil | Blame Glamo3d. |
| 13:33.22 | Dave | You have been Glamoed! |
| 13:33.25 | SpeedEvil | Shouldn't simply not using the SD ensure it's not clocked? |
| 13:33.36 | Dave | oh, speedevil |
| 13:33.50 | Elleo | I'll try doing some more extensive tests along that theme when mine arrives (until then it's back to obsessively refreshing the UPS tracking :/) |
| 13:33.57 | Dave | I fear the cpu runs too hot, normally. |
| 13:34.09 | Dave | It would be nice if it could clock down, when resting. |
| 13:34.16 | Dave | or something. |
| 13:34.19 | SpeedEvil | Also - it's not implausible that it's a combination of problems on some phones. |
| 13:34.29 | SpeedEvil | Dave: poke cesar b. |
| 13:34.31 | sledgeas | i wonder how many toasted CPUs we'll get during APM testings :) |
| 13:34.39 | Dave | Heh, alright :) |
| 13:34.56 | SpeedEvil | With a sub-par antenna connection, it's more vulnerable to internal interference. |
| 13:35.04 | SpeedEvil | sledgeas: shouldn't really be any. |
| 13:35.24 | sledgeas | nah? |
| 13:35.27 | SpeedEvil | sledgeas: You can't set it fast enough to cause damage |
| 13:35.43 | sledgeas | so, no overclockings? :):) |
| 13:36.07 | Dave | cesarb |
| 13:36.13 | SpeedEvil | You can overclock it a bit - but not really fast enough to kill it |
| 13:36.17 | Xaos | I've got a liquid nitrogen cooled FreeRunner overclocked to 2GHz... |
| 13:36.21 | Xaos | ;-) |
| 13:36.31 | sledgeas | ic, good self-protection |
| 13:36.36 | SpeedEvil | And you can overvolt the CPU if you really want to kill it |
| 13:36.56 | Xaos | just kidding...but it'd be a b!tch to carry around the LN2 to keep it cool in my pocket |
| 13:37.04 | madwoota | how bout a portable water cooling kit ? |
| 13:37.39 | Xaos | how bout a urine cooled kit? hook up a catheter to your pocket that you keep the FR in |
| 13:37.41 | Xaos | ;-) |
| 13:37.58 | Xaos | then you'd have to keep drinking beer to keep your FR from overheating |
| 13:37.59 | SpeedEvil | Xaos: now you're just taking the piss. |
| 13:38.12 | Xaos | Beer-powered FR! |
| 13:38.41 | sledgeas | overheating-prevented FR by beer :) |
| 13:39.04 | ecraven | ah, nice. my first working chicken scheme + sdl game on the FR ;) |
| 13:39.20 | Xaos | WOOHOO!!!! 07/15/2008 8:23 A.M. OUT FOR DELIVERY |
| 13:39.27 | Dave | o.O |
| 13:39.31 | AntonTakk | Xaos :) |
| 13:39.34 | Dave | lulz? |
| 13:40.08 | Xaos | of course...I'll have to wait until I get home to plug it in and charge it before doing anything useful |
| 13:40.15 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@66.205.179.175) |
| 13:40.35 | Xaos | Is the scaredycat image the best for overall usefulness (telephony)? |
| 13:40.36 | SpeedEvil | Xaos: note that urine cooling voids the warranty. |
| 13:40.43 | Xaos | SpeedEvil: LOL |
| 13:40.43 | AntonTakk | Xaos: it turns on when you plug it in, so you can play a bit while it charges, just don't unplug it |
| 13:41.15 | Xaos | I'm thinking of loading a good solid (HA!) image on the flash and do my testing, etc. while booting off the SD |
| 13:41.58 | *** join/#openmoko sontek (n=sontek@opensuse/member/Sontek) |
| 13:41.58 | *** join/#openmoko Lo-lan-do (n=roland@mirenboite.placard.fr.eu.org) |
| 13:42.04 | Xaos | my wife's going to take my RAZR v3i away when the FR shows up, so I need some level of phone stability (I'll have her old crappy phone for backup though) |
| 13:42.24 | Lo-lan-do | Further debugging led me to the conclusion that TangoGPS and agpsui shouldn't be run with LANG=fr_FR. |
| 13:42.40 | Lo-lan-do | I guess that's the reason they misinterpret the results of the NMEA stream. |
| 13:42.43 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@196.218.41.31) |
| 13:42.53 | Lo-lan-do | When back to no locale, I get proper positioning \:O |
| 13:42.54 | SpeedEvil | ... |
| 13:43.04 | Lo-lan-do | Er... I meant \o/ |
| 13:43.07 | SpeedEvil | I guess it's doing wierd things with , |
| 13:43.19 | Xaos | Those wacky French...no wonder they get lost |
| 13:43.19 | Lo-lan-do | That's my guess too. |
| 13:43.24 | Xaos | ;-) |
| 13:44.33 | *** join/#openmoko Hoolxi (n=ooooops@58.33.111.202) |
| 13:44.55 | *** join/#openmoko billk (n=upirc@203.59.139.8) |
| 13:44.55 | *** part/#openmoko billk (n=upirc@203.59.139.8) |
| 13:45.27 | *** join/#openmoko billk (n=upirc@203.59.139.8) |
| 13:46.05 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178035038.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:46.10 | sledgeas | can the flight mode be turned on for FR? like /etc/init.d/gsmd stop ? :) |
| 13:46.22 | AntonTakk | Xaos: i'm in the same boat as you, the freerunner's software curently does everything I need except make/recieve calls/sms :) |
| 13:48.57 | *** join/#openmoko Tuxxedo (i=Tuxxedo@208.101.33.58) |
| 13:49.02 | *** part/#openmoko Lo-lan-do (n=roland@mirenboite.placard.fr.eu.org) |
| 13:49.16 | *** part/#openmoko billk (n=upirc@203.59.139.8) |
| 13:49.19 | cb22 | anyone with a freerunner out there with mplayer installed who feels like being a guinea pig :)? |
| 13:49.33 | Tuxxedo | There were 2 people on a boat: /hop and /quit. /hop got off, who's still on the boat? |
| 13:49.50 | Chocky_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:50.00 | rivalarrival | the person still in the boat is /quit. |
| 13:50.04 | Tuxxedo | shh, looking for newbs.. |
| 13:50.13 | CVirus | not in here |
| 13:50.15 | cb22 | they are all in #2,000 |
| 13:50.37 | Chocky_ | Alt-F4 for the answer |
| 13:50.49 | Hoolxi | hi, how to install a package(ipk format) into freerunner? must i download it into the phone |
| 13:51.29 | ebbe | Hoolxi: Move it to the phone and do "opkg install file.ipk" |
| 13:51.46 | *** join/#openmoko nezza-_- (i=troth@unixforge.de) |
| 13:52.46 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kW@unaffiliated/kw) |
| 13:52.47 | LetoTo | Hello Paul, this is UPS. I am calling about your shipment. What's the package Paul, running shoes? |
| 13:53.16 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 13:53.19 | cb22 | hehe |
| 13:53.25 | cb22 | i can imagine |
| 13:53.30 | Hoolxi | ebbe, thx, is there any other way? say, can i install into local rootfs before i package it into JFFS2 ball |
| 13:53.55 | Xaos | LetoTo: Why does UPS even care? |
| 13:53.56 | ebbe | Hoolxi: Yes, but I don't know how :) |
| 13:54.18 | Hoolxi | ebbe, thank u anyway |
| 13:54.30 | LetoTo | Xaos: they want more of my money. import duties |
| 13:54.47 | Xaos | ahhh... |
| 13:55.00 | LetoTo | "handling fees" |
| 13:55.10 | Xaos | so glad that the States are not allowed to charge duties between themselves |
| 13:55.11 | LetoTo | never ship UPS to Canada |
| 13:55.24 | Xaos | FreeRunner...yeah...those are shoes! |
| 13:55.40 | Xaos | or...maybe it's a pedometer...it can do that...right? |
| 13:55.44 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=mbarre@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:55.55 | rivalarrival | Letoto: "Yes, discount shoes - 'Free'Runners - they have virtually no value" |
| 13:56.17 | LetoTo | unfortunately, the package already said $390 :P |
| 13:57.39 | *** join/#openmoko opentrinity (n=opentrin@host106-105-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:58.40 | LetoTo | It's now in LIVONIA,MI |
| 13:58.50 | LetoTo | this is one sad delivery path :) |
| 13:59.20 | *** part/#openmoko sledgeas (n=leleiva@galahad.fbk.eu) |
| 13:59.30 | opentrinity | MI_ MIlano? |
| 13:59.48 | *** join/#openmoko sledgeas (n=leleiva@galahad.fbk.eu) |
| 13:59.51 | rivalarrival | Mine has made it to Hodgkins IL on its way to Akron. |
| 14:00.35 | opentrinity | LetoTo, r u italian? |
| 14:00.39 | LetoTo | mine stayed in Hodgins for a few days |
| 14:00.49 | LetoTo | opentrinity:no Dutch, living in Toronto |
| 14:00.57 | opentrinity | ops |
| 14:00.58 | *** join/#openmoko mzb_d800 (n=mzb@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 14:01.00 | rivalarrival | opentrinity: MI = Michigan |
| 14:01.03 | opentrinity | so far XD |
| 14:02.15 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree (n=laNY@58.33.111.202) |
| 14:02.19 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r187d4aea2ba9 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Fix a stupid mistake |
| 14:03.02 | *** join/#openmoko Longfield (n=valentin@80-219-4-155.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:03.35 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03john_lee * r4527 10/developers/john_lee/pyfso/ (5 files): (log message trimmed) |
| 14:03.35 | CIA-46 | openmoko: stuffs abstracted from another project trying to create a python |
| 14:03.35 | CIA-46 | openmoko: binding for fso dbus api. |
| 14:03.35 | CIA-46 | openmoko: * accelerometer.py needs to be integrated into frameworkd |
| 14:03.36 | CIA-46 | openmoko: * dialer.py a simple dialer implementation that depends on |
| 14:03.36 | CIA-46 | openmoko: fso_backend.py |
| 14:03.40 | CIA-46 | openmoko: * fso_backend.py a dbus wrapper. the biggest problem is that it |
| 14:05.27 | TeNoVi | I get "AR6000 scan complete: 0" and next line: "AR6000 Neighbor Report Event" and next line "bssid 00:19:5b:b4ec:67" I got this after I ran opkg upgrade. Now after it has worked a while with download, it started to apply, and suddenly there it was. What can I do? |
| 14:06.23 | mw| | TeNoVi: that is just debug-info from the wireless driver |
| 14:07.41 | *** join/#openmoko ascot (n=ascot@vpn1-50.tu-graz.ac.at) |
| 14:08.01 | mw| | however, should not appear unless you change loglevel or run dmesg as far as I know |
| 14:09.54 | retracile | *refresh* Aww, still in Mesquite. |
| 14:10.28 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 14:13.47 | TeNoVi | mwl: I thougt so, but thats not all. "pcf50633 0-0073: pcf50633_irq scheduling work" and "pcf50633 0-0073: pcf50633bl_set_intensity |
| 14:14.23 | mw| | TeNoVi: yeah, they appear all the time asswell. Debug info aswell |
| 14:15.05 | mw| | not that I yet have had time to figure out what the pcf50633 chip is |
| 14:15.19 | summatusmentis | OM had interns this summer? |
| 14:15.41 | *** join/#openmoko linuxxr (n=brian@ip70-178-27-23.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 14:15.45 | *** join/#openmoko Clint (n=Clint@thumb.scru.org) |
| 14:15.49 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 14:16.32 | *** part/#openmoko Clint (n=Clint@thumb.scru.org) |
| 14:17.20 | Xaos | retracile: you in the DFW Metroplex? |
| 14:18.16 | ecraven | are there known problems with sdl+cairo and the FR? |
| 14:18.17 | TeNoVi | mwl: So. What should I do now? Just wait. X is not started, and as I can see, it is not possible to start it manualy without a keyboard |
| 14:18.40 | TeNoVi | I got this in the upgrade prosess |
| 14:19.25 | retracile | Xaos: yep |
| 14:20.02 | linuxxr | mansfield |
| 14:20.05 | *** join/#openmoko sandman__ (n=willis@c-71-62-234-171.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 14:20.38 | Xaos | retracile: me to...I live up north and work in NW Dallas |
| 14:21.37 | Xaos | and MINE's out for delivery. nyah nyah nyah |
| 14:21.41 | Xaos | ;-) |
| 14:22.02 | beni_ | i wonder if mine is already produced |
| 14:22.13 | beni_ | delivery is sheduled to 25. |
| 14:22.49 | retracile | is envious |
| 14:23.05 | retracile | Xaos: Did you go ground, or pay extra? |
| 14:23.43 | Xaos | ground...cheap shipping |
| 14:23.52 | retracile | same here |
| 14:23.55 | Xaos | I ordered mine on the 3rd (order 1220) |
| 14:28.30 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 14:28.49 | *** join/#openmoko trix (n=trix@c-76-115-43-169.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
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| 14:38.39 | abraxa_ | <Xaos> cool...so the FR can remain powered without battery as long as it's plugged into USB? that's awesome! <~ Yes, although the GSM department will be unpowered |
| 14:38.58 | abraxa_ | But you can change batteries that way, for example. |
| 14:39.22 | kelvie | wow.. it shipped yesterday |
| 14:39.26 | kelvie | and is already in Vancouver |
| 14:42.59 | *** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@i59F76AC8.versanet.de) |
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| 14:46.27 | ecraven | has anyone else noticed problems with cairo on the FR?? |
| 14:48.09 | abraxa_ | ecraven: Define "problems" |
| 14:48.44 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@79.68.78.64) |
| 14:49.03 | ecraven | abraxa_: colors are off, everything is stretched and distorted ;) |
| 14:49.46 | abraxa_ | ecraven: Maybe it's using the wrong display bit depth? |
| 14:50.26 | ecraven | abraxa_: how do i change that? |
| 14:50.31 | ecraven | i'm using RGB24 |
| 14:50.42 | ecraven | there's only ARGB32, A1 and A8 in addition to that |
| 14:51.36 | abraxa_ | points at raster - he might have an idea, I unfortunately don't |
| 14:52.14 | ecraven | cairo.h says: @CAIRO_FORMAT_RGB16_565: This format value is deprecated. |
| 14:52.22 | ecraven | the openmoko is rgb16, right? |
| 14:52.29 | Arg0naut | can anyone help me with my wireless? my freerunner can ping computers in my network but not outside of it |
| 14:52.43 | raster | ecraven: fr screen deptn is 16bot |
| 14:52.51 | raster | so using 24/32bit visuals is going to not help u much |
| 14:52.52 | raster | :) |
| 14:53.03 | LetoTo | Arg0naut: sounds like routing issue |
| 14:53.04 | ecraven | raster: hm.. then cairo has a problem |
| 14:54.33 | linuxxr | mine has been stuck in san pablo since the 12th |
| 14:55.21 | cjb | linuxxr: mine updated yesterday (14th) to say that it had left san pablo on the 11th |
| 14:55.32 | cjb | so there's just an update delay going on |
| 14:55.32 | linuxxr | cool |
| 14:55.43 | cjb | but when it updated, it also moved the estimated delivery back |
| 14:55.46 | cjb | 15th->17th |
| 14:55.47 | linuxxr | then i wont get excited |
| 14:56.18 | linuxxr | i was thinking evil things |
| 14:56.59 | Dave | of course you were! |
| 14:57.02 | Dave | Evil! |
| 14:57.24 | linuxxr | iwas thinking somebody changed the address in the mail room an got it shipped to them |
| 14:57.40 | *** join/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@host81-153-198-60.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 14:58.11 | raster | ecraven: it may. if cairo doesnt support 16bpp output - your'e in truble then. |
| 14:58.12 | raster | :) |
| 14:59.11 | ecraven | raster: i'm quite sure it doesn't |
| 14:59.15 | ecraven | back to sdl gfx then ;) |
| 14:59.17 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=mbarre@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:59.51 | mjr | well how nice of cairo |
| 15:00.49 | raster | or u can use evas |
| 15:00.50 | raster | :) |
| 15:01.56 | ecraven | url? |
| 15:01.58 | summatusmentis | so, how do I get OM to send me a free FR, without putting in much effort? |
| 15:02.05 | ecraven | i need something i can access from scheme (possibly via c bindings) |
| 15:02.27 | cjb | summatusmentis: why do you think that should be possible? |
| 15:02.39 | summatusmentis | because I'm a poor college student :) |
| 15:02.44 | summatusmentis | cjb: mostly a joke |
| 15:02.48 | *** join/#openmoko Hoolxi (n=ooooops@58.33.111.202) |
| 15:02.51 | retracile | summatusmentis: You can get a Free FR, it just costs money. :) |
| 15:03.03 | *** join/#openmoko GoldenHawk (n=goldenha@flr3-174.corp.golden.net) |
| 15:03.13 | summatusmentis | retracile: heh |
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| 15:05.41 | N-Mi | yay !!! my payment is being processed, pulster will at last be able to ship my FR \o/ |
| 15:06.24 | spydon | N-Mi, will you get it with the "25-batch"? |
| 15:06.54 | N-Mi | spydon: 25-batch ? |
| 15:07.03 | cjb | oh, cool, the GPS problems got diagnosed |
| 15:07.19 | ecraven | they did? |
| 15:07.43 | ebbe | cjb: More info? |
| 15:07.58 | trickie | ebbe: take out your sdcard |
| 15:08.01 | cjb | community list |
| 15:08.13 | *** join/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@HSI-KBW-085-216-120-185.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 15:08.14 | cjb | yeah, apparently having an SD card in causes the low signal strength |
| 15:08.16 | cjb | incredible. |
| 15:08.22 | Elleo | ecraven/ebbe: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021774.html |
| 15:08.31 | spydon | N-Mi, didn't the first batch sell out pretty fast and the second would arrive the 25 of july? |
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| 15:08.50 | spydon | N-Mi, sorry for my crappy English ^^ |
| 15:09.00 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@91.184.75.76) |
| 15:09.15 | Chocky | all. |
| 15:09.39 | N-Mi | spydon: my order is from the first batch, but it took long for my bank to process the international transfer for the payment |
| 15:09.59 | spydon | N-Mi, I see, do you know when you will get it? |
| 15:11.14 | ecraven | raster: care to explain to me in a few sentences how evas works? |
| 15:11.29 | N-Mi | spydon: I've just sent a mail to Pulster to tell him I can see the transfer on my online bank account, if he can see it too ge will ship my FR the same day (as he said to me in a previous mail) |
| 15:11.47 | raster | ecraven: very differently to cairo or SDL |
| 15:11.54 | spydon | N-Mi, nice |
| 15:12.03 | raster | ecraven: SDL does almost nothing. it basically handles kbd/mouse abstraction |
| 15:12.09 | ecraven | hm.. callback from c into scheme doesn't sound good |
| 15:12.12 | raster | and getting a window/fullscreen up |
| 15:12.22 | raster | and then lts u blast pixels yourself |
| 15:12.33 | raster | those pixel may be yuv via xvideo |
| 15:12.38 | raster | or native format |
| 15:12.48 | raster | ie rgb (16bit 565, 8bit, 24/32bit) |
| 15:12.49 | N-Mi | spydon: and DHL's website tells that an air mail takes one day to go from Germany to France |
| 15:12.50 | raster | etc. |
| 15:13.07 | raster | cairo does a lot more |
| 15:13.14 | raster | it haslots of drawing primitives. |
| 15:13.20 | raster | but its immediate-mode |
| 15:13.25 | raster | u draw, then forget |
| 15:13.35 | spydon | N-Mi, yeah I saw that too, pretty neat |
| 15:13.39 | raster | if u change something u need to redraw it |
| 15:13.43 | raster | vas is a stateful cavas |
| 15:13.48 | raster | u create and destroy objects |
| 15:13.54 | raster | configure them how u like them |
| 15:13.58 | raster | eg create image object |
| 15:14.05 | raster | put in middle of screen |
| 15:14.06 | raster | show it |
| 15:14.06 | raster | then forget |
| 15:14.19 | raster | place a big image below everything and size it to the window - forget aboutit |
| 15:14.23 | raster | all redraws are done for u |
| 15:14.28 | raster | automatically |
| 15:14.32 | ecraven | raster: sounds good, i just have to figure out how i can make callbacks work. |
| 15:14.37 | raster | any change in state is evaluated and updated for you |
| 15:14.45 | raster | it is a c api |
| 15:14.48 | raster | and is callback heavy |
| 15:15.14 | Elleo | so evas is more equivelant to something like goocanvas? |
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| 15:16.29 | AntonTakk | anyone have phone-kit not becoming a zombie on startup in 2007.2? |
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| 15:18.02 | Chocky | wonders if raster is done yet. |
| 15:18.04 | ecraven | raster: is there an evas for debian? |
| 15:18.45 | raster | Elleo: dont know goocanvas |
| 15:18.50 | Dave | Is ecraven done yet? |
| 15:19.07 | Elleo | from what you've said it sounds similar, although more aimed at vector stuff (it's cairo based) |
| 15:19.07 | Dave | ;p |
| 15:19.27 | Elleo | similar interms of usage at any rate |
| 15:20.41 | TeNoVi | How can I see when the battery is fully charged? |
| 15:21.06 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 15:21.09 | LetoTo | WINDSOR, ON, CA |
| 15:21.17 | *** part/#openmoko xMDKx (n=mdkcore@nat/mandriva/x-20bbb3dd7a84bb5d) |
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| 15:21.20 | LetoTo | it's slowly migrating to me like a squirrel |
| 15:21.34 | edistar | raster: may I ask you something? is the glamo able to do hot-swap for the microSD card? |
| 15:21.49 | edistar | raster: you speak german, right? http://80.61.221.9/gpstests.txt |
| 15:22.22 | raster | Elleo: not much info on goocanvas... |
| 15:22.52 | ebbe | Anyone know what happened with tangogps' homepage? |
| 15:22.59 | raster | edistar: dont know if it can hotswap |
| 15:23.09 | edistar | raster: ok |
| 15:23.14 | TeNoVi | ebbe: Is anything wrong? |
| 15:23.16 | raster | frankly hotswap of d has never even bee tested as best i know |
| 15:23.21 | Dave | explosion!11 |
| 15:23.25 | raster | basically since u need to remove the battery to get to it |
| 15:23.26 | edistar | raster: because if I insert it while the FR is running it doesn't recognize it |
| 15:23.33 | ebbe | TenoVi: Only commercials.. |
| 15:23.37 | raster | any removal of sim or sd card is pretty much assumed to mean a powerdown |
| 15:23.40 | raster | :/ |
| 15:23.49 | Elleo | raster: yeah, it lacks any sort of decent website, there's resonable documentation distributed as far as I remember, I fiddled with the python bindings for it a while back when making a topological map/network editor |
| 15:23.56 | TeNoVi | ebbe: Do you have a screenshot? It's looking fine here |
| 15:23.59 | Elleo | distributed with it* |
| 15:24.04 | edistar | raster: okey |
| 15:24.12 | raster | edistar: was ist der "dummy" |
| 15:24.27 | edistar | raster: ein plastikstueck in der form einer microSD-karte |
| 15:24.32 | raster | aaah |
| 15:24.34 | ebbe | TenoVi: Maybe dns-capture?? |
| 15:24.37 | raster | dummy-karte |
| 15:24.40 | edistar | just to test if it was a mechanical failure |
| 15:24.55 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@net70-17.metalit.net) |
| 15:25.08 | raster | ja - wir wissen was jetzt mit dem gps los ist |
| 15:25.21 | TeNoVi | ebbe: hmm... |
| 15:25.26 | edistar | raster: erzaehle |
| 15:25.33 | raster | i'll wait for the official explanation to come out |
| 15:25.41 | edistar | okey |
| 15:25.41 | ebbe | tenoVi: http://imagebin.org/22553 |
| 15:25.45 | raster | but we do have a hardware fix |
| 15:25.51 | edistar | \o/ cool |
| 15:25.58 | raster | its a board-change with an addec capacitor |
| 15:26.01 | raster | :( |
| 15:26.02 | cjb | raster: any idea if it's performable by outsiders? |
| 15:26.04 | edistar | oh |
| 15:26.05 | Chocky | ugh. |
| 15:26.14 | raster | andy has thrown about the idea of a software fix |
| 15:26.16 | cjb | aw. a board layout change, or just adding a wire and the cap? |
| 15:26.28 | raster | that is still under investigation |
| 15:26.43 | raster | cjb: well - addint a wire is a board change :) |
| 15:26.46 | cjb | ok. good luck :) |
| 15:26.50 | edistar | so every FR has to be sent to a reseller? |
| 15:26.52 | Chocky | well, I still don't have GPS working. that might be becase it seems to be a mess under the qtopia image |
| 15:26.55 | mw| | raster: does GPS work with dummy-SD card? |
| 15:27.15 | edistar | mw|: it does for me |
| 15:27.18 | raster | dunno |
| 15:27.25 | raster | i havent done anything with gps... ever |
| 15:27.28 | raster | on the fr |
| 15:27.39 | mw| | edistar: aaah.. so the fault is electrical then |
| 15:27.57 | TeNoVi | ebbe: That was realy strange... I've got the same adress... What country are you in? |
| 15:28.05 | raster | the clock rail to the sd card is causing rf interference |
| 15:28.05 | emdete | raster: is known what exactly happens? |
| 15:28.05 | ebbe | TeNoVi: Denmark |
| 15:28.06 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213-152-39-89.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) |
| 15:28.12 | emdete | ah, sry |
| 15:28.15 | mw| | and the different timeing I get with external-antenna vs internal (with SD card removed) probably comes from different quality of the GPS-antennas? |
| 15:28.16 | raster | we ask the glamo topower down sd when idle |
| 15:28.16 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2E9EA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:28.24 | raster | but it apparentlky doesnt seem to power the clock down |
| 15:28.25 | TeNoVi | ebbe: Ah, saw that now :P Norway here |
| 15:28.27 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 15:28.34 | raster | so glamo isnt doing what it is asked to |
| 15:28.50 | edistar | raster: but if SD and gps is used at the same time the problem would persist? |
| 15:28.50 | raster | andy's sofware fix will be to try and see if he can get it to manually power down from the driver |
| 15:28.54 | raster | when the driver thgins its idle |
| 15:28.59 | raster | not auto-powerdown from glamo |
| 15:29.06 | raster | that MAY work as a software fix |
| 15:29.07 | *** join/#openmoko apol (i=apol@62.57.51.21.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 15:29.11 | raster | so as long as sd card io si idle |
| 15:29.15 | raster | gps will not be interfered with |
| 15:29.19 | raster | with a software fix |
| 15:29.20 | mjr | raster, sounds potential at least |
| 15:29.21 | raster | if it works |
| 15:29.36 | raster | edistar: correct |
| 15:29.37 | emdete | so using cards from sd for navigation doesnt work at all then...? |
| 15:29.40 | TeNoVi | ebbe: Try http://www.theproxyfree.com/ |
| 15:29.43 | raster | that means ACTIVE sd cardio |
| 15:29.45 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@dsl54009F5D.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 15:29.46 | raster | ieactiveread/write |
| 15:29.58 | raster | if it ewas idle - it'd be foricbly powered down |
| 15:30.10 | raster | emdete: it would inhibit getting an initial fix |
| 15:30.18 | ecraven | if the hardware fix works, can we send in our FR to get it fixed for free? |
| 15:30.18 | raster | but i believe once u have a fix it works |
| 15:30.18 | ebbe | TeNoVi: Yep. Works |
| 15:30.21 | raster | even with sd card |
| 15:30.30 | raster | ecraven: i dont know |
| 15:30.33 | raster | as i said |
| 15:30.36 | ecraven | guesses? |
| 15:30.42 | raster | wait for the official line |
| 15:30.43 | emdete | raster: not for me: mines looses the fix when plugin off ext. antenna |
| 15:31.47 | mjr | emdete, but your software doubtfully uses the card actively all the time anyway |
| 15:31.50 | raster | emdete: it maqy be that an external ant/ has different reciever characteristics and so needs a re-fix |
| 15:31.54 | raster | i dont really know |
| 15:32.41 | *** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@i59F76AC8.versanet.de) |
| 15:32.43 | emdete | mjr: more or less, yes, i read maps, write those tiles that are new and write email and stuff too. but not all the time |
| 15:32.51 | sledgeas | raster: so no chances of soldering this at home.. |
| 15:33.14 | ecraven | raster: so in a way, evas is like a GL scene graph? |
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| 15:36.32 | mjr | emdete, nevertheless, it's somewhat intermittent. Of course, it's to be determined if the chip can keep fixes in the gaps... |
| 15:38.18 | abraxa_ | raster: Thanks for the heads-up btw |
| 15:38.21 | SpeedEvil | really, really hopes it's a trivial mod. |
| 15:38.29 | mjr | really. |
| 15:38.39 | raster | sledgeas: i dont know. i'm not a hw guy. |
| 15:38.44 | SpeedEvil | Worst case, it could be a re-layout. |
| 15:38.49 | raster | ecraven: yes. a lot of a gl scene graph |
| 15:38.53 | SpeedEvil | Best case it's a component change. |
| 15:38.59 | ecraven | raster: how hard would it be to package it for debian? |
| 15:39.00 | Chocky | SpeedEvil: omgpwnies |
| 15:39.05 | tedo | raster: would it be possible to clock down the sdcard via the glamo? |
| 15:39.05 | raster | ecraven: somewhere between gl and a full "game engine" no physics etc. enginein evas |
| 15:39.13 | raster | but you do describe a 2d world to it |
| 15:39.17 | SpeedEvil | (If it's not the cable) |
| 15:39.20 | raster | and manipulate it |
| 15:39.22 | ecraven | raster: sounds very much like what i want ;) |
| 15:39.46 | raster | ecraven: as for debian - it's in debiuan testing already. |
| 15:39.59 | raster | tedo: it should be abl to be clocked off |
| 15:40.03 | raster | as siuch it should already be |
| 15:40.09 | *** join/#openmoko tschaka (n=tschaka@p5B0EA4B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:40.10 | raster | we ask glamo to clock off when idle |
| 15:40.10 | raster | but it doesnt |
| 15:40.16 | raster | well doenst do hat we wasked |
| 15:40.29 | raster | so we need to try bypass auto-clock-ffo by manually clocking off from the driver |
| 15:40.52 | ecraven | raster: ah, perfect. i'll try more tomorrow, going to test my gps now ;/ |
| 15:40.55 | tedo | raster: ok, i mean in general. eg if gps == on then sd_clock = slow; |
| 15:41.51 | raster | tedo: i dont know if we have slwo clocks for sd |
| 15:42.01 | mjr | mmh, underclocking the sd bus would perhaps be an interesting experiment if possible, which is not necessarily the case... |
| 15:42.02 | raster | i know we have on and off |
| 15:42.17 | raster | as i'm not working on the stuff - i'm jut summarising the discussion so far |
| 15:42.18 | raster | :) |
| 15:42.27 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 15:42.29 | raster | as such it should be "off" anyway |
| 15:42.31 | tedo | raster: thx :) |
| 15:42.31 | raster | ie |
| 15:42.38 | raster | if u are not actually reading or writing sd card data |
| 15:42.42 | raster | it SHOULD be off |
| 15:42.47 | *** join/#openmoko kennyz (n=kennyz@uralnet.org) |
| 15:42.51 | mjr | aanyway, hope to hear more from the subject soon from official sources then |
| 15:42.55 | raster | so if u are not actively reading or writign files on sd WHILE trying to get a gps fix |
| 15:42.58 | raster | u should be fine |
| 15:43.03 | raster | *IF* the sd card would clock off |
| 15:43.05 | raster | whihc it doesnt |
| 15:43.13 | Chocky | hm. |
| 15:43.13 | raster | so this is all about the software fix |
| 15:43.20 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@p57B29406.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:43.24 | raster | whihc is possible for everyone to benefit from without hw returns/fixes |
| 15:43.29 | Chocky | yes. |
| 15:43.33 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=mbarre@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:43.36 | raster | as such the sd clock really should be off anyway |
| 15:43.41 | cjb | raster: thanks for the update |
| 15:43.41 | raster | so this saves us more power |
| 15:43.47 | mjr | indeed, even from the power standpoi...echo |
| 15:43.48 | raster | it SHOULd have been off |
| 15:43.56 | raster | as we asked glamo to turn it off when not in use |
| 15:43.59 | raster | but it didnt |
| 15:44.06 | raster | so either way |
| 15:44.20 | raster | its a power-saving fix |
| 15:44.20 | raster | and improved gps |
| 15:44.20 | mjr | yeah |
| 15:44.51 | raster | in fact |
| 15:44.53 | raster | for you guys: |
| 15:44.55 | raster | http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=5cb541702a40dc61fababe4613f6838df1c2acbd |
| 15:45.02 | raster | if u want to go patch your kernels |
| 15:45.03 | *** join/#openmoko surf2me (n=surfer@unixboard/users/surf2me) |
| 15:45.06 | raster | andy just finished the patch |
| 15:45.29 | cjb | looks good! |
| 15:45.42 | cjb | I wonder how long it takes to bring the clock up and down. |
| 15:46.13 | *** join/#openmoko getxsick (i=skfarek@unaffiliated/getxsick) |
| 15:46.25 | edistar | raster: the hw fix would stop the interference? so gps would _always_ get the same reception regardless of SD io? |
| 15:46.33 | *** part/#openmoko getxsick (i=skfarek@unaffiliated/getxsick) |
| 15:46.37 | cjb | edistar: likely, yes |
| 15:46.57 | cjb | but raster has a good point, that driving clocks unnecessarily is something to fix in general, for power reasons etc |
| 15:47.31 | edistar | obviously |
| 15:47.40 | wurp2|semi_away | Is there a known issue with pulseaudio and resume? |
| 15:47.58 | *** join/#openmoko ccube__ (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 15:48.04 | wurp2|semi_away | Yesterday I had Milestone 1 of FSO running on my 01 all day, and had forgotten to shut down pulseaudio |
| 15:48.26 | raster | edistar: i think it does. not sure on details there, but it means the software fix is ONLY a power improvement |
| 15:48.37 | wurp2|semi_away | I understand why this prevented it from ringing aloud, but it also appeared to fubar any ability to receive a call while suspended |
| 15:48.39 | raster | as such |
| 15:48.45 | raster | if the software fix is reliable |
| 15:48.49 | raster | i think its sufficient |
| 15:48.50 | wurp2|semi_away | And also apparently the ability to make calls after it resumed |
| 15:49.00 | raster | simply sd card io needs to be avoided while gettign a gps fix |
| 15:49.14 | edistar | raster: okey |
| 15:49.35 | edistar | raster: no, I don't think it is sufficient.. |
| 15:49.35 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@83.68.218.53) |
| 15:49.37 | TeNoVi | wurp2|semi_away: I'm having the same problem with the standard image :S (If I got it right what you said) |
| 15:49.45 | wurp2|semi_away | (Note: the reason pulseaudio is on FSO is that I am working on getting 2007.2 stuff working on it. I meant to have my 2007.2 stuff "turned off" during my day so I could use it for calls |
| 15:49.51 | tedo | raster: the patch says that the sdcard clk is variable (just for your info) |
| 15:49.57 | edistar | raster: not only when getting a fix.. in sheltered areas one also would keep the fix.. |
| 15:50.11 | mjr | tedo, interesting |
| 15:50.11 | wurp2|semi_away | TeNoVi: That makes sense, since pulseaudio is always running in the standard image |
| 15:50.33 | raster | edistar: why is it not sufficient? |
| 15:50.36 | wurp2|semi_away | TeNoVi: And must run if you want sound, except sound during calls should still work with pulseaudio down in 2007.2 |
| 15:51.00 | raster | when actively reading and writing to the sd card ull lose reception quality |
| 15:51.01 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178251151.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:51.06 | raster | whihc comes back up when IO stops |
| 15:51.22 | *** join/#openmoko key (n=key@nat/ibm/x-6ddd4edbc7b4475a) |
| 15:51.31 | sledgeas | raster: but if you read GPS data like every 1 second and write it to SD? |
| 15:51.39 | TeNoVi | wurp2|semi_away: I loose the "ringtone" sound, but i can hear people talk and they can hear me in a call |
| 15:51.43 | mjr | you don't sync it to SD every second |
| 15:51.50 | mjr | or you're killing the card ;] |
| 15:51.52 | wurp2|semi_away | TeNoVi: I'm not sure if people running the standard image have ever gotten good suspend/resume consistently |
| 15:51.59 | wurp2|semi_away | TeNoVi: After suspend/resume? |
| 15:52.04 | sledgeas | ok, so it's being cached elsewhere then |
| 15:52.04 | swc|666 | if i shutdown the FR and leave the power cable plugged in does it charge? or soed it have to be powered on? |
| 15:52.08 | raster | sledgeas: u wont write AT the same time |
| 15:52.16 | swc|666 | soed/does* |
| 15:52.18 | raster | i read gps.. THEN writ to sd |
| 15:52.20 | raster | and if anything |
| 15:52.22 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176102152.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:52.22 | raster | the sd is buffered |
| 15:52.25 | TeNoVi | wurp2|semi_away: Yes. only after suspend/resume. If It don't suspend, it's fine |
| 15:52.29 | wurp2|semi_away | TeNoVi: I lose the ringtone sound regardless of suspend/resume, because FSO tries to talk to alsa directly - pulseaudio is not supposed to be running on FSO at all |
| 15:52.33 | raster | so it maqy be several seconds before u write it in reality as its in cache |
| 15:52.39 | tedo | Is the slew rate of the sdclock configurable? |
| 15:53.01 | wurp2|semi_away | TeNoVi: What I *also* lose, most of the time, is the ability to get or make a call after a resume |
| 15:53.05 | zmoll | Lame! I have to wait longer for me fr |
| 15:53.10 | zmoll | All, We have just had an update from Openmoko saying that that our delivery of Freerunners has been delayed by new custom procedures in China. We were expecting to have these in our office and ready to send out to you on the 18th July. However Openmoko are now telling us that they will not be able to ship them to us until 21st July so we now expect to have them ready to send out on 28th July. |
| 15:53.41 | wurp2|semi_away | TeNoVi: But it does sound as if both of our issues could have one cause: problems in pulseaudio resume |
| 15:53.42 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. Is GPS serial connected to the debug board? |
| 15:53.47 | sledgeas | raster: so software fix cures just the consequence but not the cause. you admit that the clock interference with rf is a flaw in chip design and to get rid of it completely (shielding off the interference) would be already a challenge for home-hardware-solderers :) out there? |
| 15:53.55 | SpeedEvil | IOW - can you power everything else off, and wake GPS |
| 15:54.07 | TeNoVi | wurp2|semi_away: Hmm. I can recive and call, but if the phone is going back in suspend, the phone wount wake up if someone is calling |
| 15:54.11 | SpeedEvil | sledgeas: it may be impossible |
| 15:54.18 | SpeedEvil | sledgeas: depending ont he design of the PCB. |
| 15:54.30 | sledgeas | even that, exactly |
| 15:55.01 | wurp2|semi_away | TeNoVi: OK, mine will wake on a call, but it will never actually let me take the call, and calling was broken after the wake |
| 15:55.18 | *** join/#openmoko fuzzyt (n=tim@70.59.221.233) |
| 15:55.27 | SpeedEvil | It might even be something like direct EMI of the RAM bus. |
| 15:55.28 | wurp2|semi_away | TeNoVi: I think you'll find that the media player, and keyboard click, also are broken after resume |
| 15:55.41 | SpeedEvil | GPS is 'only' 10 times higher in frequency than the RAM bus. |
| 15:55.51 | raster | zmoll: hooray customs! |
| 15:56.16 | *** join/#openmoko Valahano (n=Valahano@78-60-12-245.static.zebra.lt) |
| 15:56.21 | raster | sledgeas: yes. it cures the consequence and makes it work - if you pause/hold SD IO while geting gps info |
| 15:56.23 | cjb | SpeedEvil: Hm? What's wrong with the SD-clock-leaks-into-GPS-RF theory? |
| 15:56.34 | raster | as such it si very easy to hold sd io while gps device is active |
| 15:56.39 | cjb | doesn't see where the RAM bus came from. |
| 15:56.42 | raster | hell the kernel could automatically do this |
| 15:56.48 | SpeedEvil | cjb: I've not seen anything that backs it up other than conjecture. |
| 15:56.49 | raster | on a read of gps device |
| 15:56.50 | raster | FIRST |
| 15:56.54 | sledgeas | will require another patch - exactly, should be automatized ;) |
| 15:57.05 | raster | wait for any pending writes to sd to finish |
| 15:57.10 | raster | pause sd writes |
| 15:57.11 | zmoll | that was me quoting an email from Truebox, other suppliers may not be affected as badly. |
| 15:57.12 | raster | clock of sd |
| 15:57.14 | cjb | SpeedEvil: so you're replacing it with a different, and even more unsubstianted conjecture? :) |
| 15:57.14 | raster | do gps thing |
| 15:57.24 | raster | then when gps io finished |
| 15:57.26 | SpeedEvil | cjb: does dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/card/foo reliably kill the GPS |
| 15:57.34 | raster | bring sd back up and continue |
| 15:57.36 | raster | its possible |
| 15:57.40 | cjb | SpeedEvil: no, because the SD clock is *always* on. |
| 15:57.43 | raster | with a performance penalty |
| 15:57.45 | cjb | (when an SD card is inserted) |
| 15:57.48 | raster | and complexity penalty |
| 15:57.49 | raster | in software |
| 15:57.51 | swc|666 | if i shutdown the FR and leave the power cable plugged in does it charge? or does it have to be powered on? |
| 15:57.56 | raster | so its a doable fix in software |
| 15:58.03 | cjb | raster: interesting idea, I wonder what the timescales are |
| 15:58.04 | raster | as SD IO and GP Io go both through the kernel |
| 15:58.06 | raster | so it can do this |
| 15:58.08 | TAsnn | swc|666, iirc powerd on. |
| 15:58.12 | TAsnn | powered* |
| 15:58.13 | raster | in fact |
| 15:58.17 | swc|666 | TAsnn, : thanx |
| 15:58.18 | raster | unless y are calling fsync() |
| 15:58.21 | SpeedEvil | cjb: however, with SD, you've got 4 bits toggling at the same time as the clock. |
| 15:58.24 | raster | for sd IO write |
| 15:58.28 | raster | (whihc you shouldnt be) |
| 15:58.32 | SpeedEvil | cjb: so wirte/read may make it lots worse. |
| 15:58.41 | raster | the only conseaquence would be a greater latency on read of uncached data |
| 15:58.48 | raster | IF doing a gps read at the same time |
| 15:58.51 | raster | so not that big a hit |
| 15:58.57 | raster | justa nast-code-complexity hit in the kernel |
| 15:59.03 | raster | where now 2 drivers need to be aware of eachother |
| 15:59.07 | raster | and block eachother out |
| 15:59.18 | cjb | SpeedEvil: it may, but I don't see what your point is anymore. |
| 15:59.22 | SpeedEvil | Worst case I suppose is GPS loses sats every time you touch the SD. |
| 15:59.28 | SpeedEvil | Like going into a tunnel. |
| 15:59.35 | cjb | you're trying to argue that it isn't the fault of the SD by saying that it will be even more the fault of the SD when we bitbang it? |
| 15:59.37 | raster | SpeedEvil: apparently the clokc line is continually buzzing with clokc signals |
| 15:59.42 | raster | without read/write happning |
| 15:59.45 | raster | it SHOULDNT be |
| 15:59.51 | raster | we asked glamo to auto-powerdown when idel |
| 15:59.53 | raster | it doesnt |
| 16:00.01 | SpeedEvil | cjb: no - I'm saying that if the clock signal leaks, data write/read should probably make it worse. |
| 16:00.09 | cjb | raster: his point still stands, though. when the clock is on, you will be disrupting the GPS radio. |
| 16:00.12 | raster | so get driver to force a power down of the sd clock when no io is active will help |
| 16:00.15 | sledgeas | SpeedEvil: it means re-inserting SD after fix should already be loosing GPS sats |
| 16:00.20 | raster | it still emans ACTIVe Io means the SD clock is up |
| 16:00.22 | raster | and that affects gps |
| 16:00.37 | cjb | SpeedEvil: I think that sounds correct. |
| 16:00.41 | raster | if we can find a way to mutally exclude sd io and gps activity |
| 16:00.41 | SpeedEvil | Are there any tests that have actually lead to this SD theory? |
| 16:00.49 | SpeedEvil | Or is it just hypothesis? |
| 16:00.51 | raster | we will be golden in terms of a reliable software fix |
| 16:00.51 | cjb | SpeedEvil: Getting a good fix is the hard part, though, and we know we can do that with the clock off. |
| 16:00.55 | cjb | SpeedEvil: There are tests. |
| 16:00.58 | raster | it just comes with a performance penalty |
| 16:00.59 | raster | as as such |
| 16:00.59 | cjb | http://80.61.221.9/gpstests.txt |
| 16:01.07 | raster | the Fr is full of performance penalties anyway |
| 16:01.10 | raster | another wont kill us |
| 16:01.12 | raster | :) |
| 16:01.14 | cjb | SpeedEvil: and about ~50 people who just posted to community@ agreeing that their FR works if they take out the SD. |
| 16:01.28 | SpeedEvil | cjb: They seem to be encrypted |
| 16:01.31 | SpeedEvil | cjb: Ah. |
| 16:01.33 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 16:01.46 | SpeedEvil | I haven't been reading community as much as I should. |
| 16:01.59 | SpeedEvil | It could be something as stupid as a missing decoupling cap. |
| 16:05.41 | Dave | decouples SpeedEvil |
| 16:06.41 | raster | anyway |
| 16:06.45 | raster | if a software fix is possible |
| 16:06.48 | raster | its going to happen |
| 16:07.05 | raster | as a hw fixis really not something anyone wants... unlessthere is no choice |
| 16:07.08 | edistar | anyone got a patched kernel yet? |
| 16:07.40 | edistar | raster: is the software fix not already in the patch? |
| 16:07.51 | Dave | Qtooooooooooooooopia |
| 16:07.57 | raster | that is a first software fix |
| 16:08.00 | raster | *IF* |
| 16:08.03 | raster | that solves things |
| 16:08.09 | raster | the same way as no sd card" solves it |
| 16:08.18 | raster | (as long as u dont do SDIO while using gps) |
| 16:08.27 | raster | then we have the start of a more workable fix |
| 16:08.45 | raster | we can consider mutually-exclusively locking out GPS Io and SD IO |
| 16:08.48 | raster | so they nver interfere |
| 16:08.53 | raster | it may be doable |
| 16:08.57 | raster | but weneed to see |
| 16:09.57 | cjb | SpeedEvil: yes, it is indeed fixed by adding a single cap. |
| 16:09.58 | SpeedEvil | It sounds unlikely to me that it's GPS and SD IO that's the issue. |
| 16:10.10 | *** join/#openmoko paguilar (n=paguilar@217.194.179.73) |
| 16:10.13 | SpeedEvil | But GPS use and SD IO |
| 16:10.22 | cjb | SpeedEvil: it doesn't seem unlikely to anyone working on it. |
| 16:10.59 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@net70-17.metalit.net) |
| 16:11.02 | mwester | wurp2|semi_away: Yes, there is a bug in the ALSA driver somewhere that causes trouble on suspend/resume with Pulseaudio -- see my website for a workaround for this problem. |
| 16:11.37 | SpeedEvil | In that the interference isn't with the GPS output - the serial port reads just fine. But the GPS input stage - which is picking up hash from the SD IO. |
| 16:12.00 | cjb | SpeedEvil: oh, absolutely |
| 16:12.00 | raster | SpeedEvil: hmmm no sd doesnt use sdio? |
| 16:12.16 | cjb | raster: he just means "input/output on the SD controller" |
| 16:12.34 | raster | ooh |
| 16:12.36 | raster | yes |
| 16:12.39 | raster | the probem is |
| 16:12.42 | cjb | SpeedEvil: the claim has always been that it's high-frequency leaking from the SD clock into the GPS antenna path. |
| 16:12.42 | raster | the way he sd driver is now |
| 16:12.45 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - I was addressing rasters 'mutually-exclusively locking out GPS Io and SD IO' |
| 16:12.45 | wurp2|semi_away | mwester: Excellent, thanks! I was sure remembered something about it, but searching the ML archives for "pulseaudio resume" turned up nothing useful |
| 16:12.46 | raster | sdio is ALWAYS on |
| 16:12.52 | raster | here is ALWAYS clock there if a card is in |
| 16:12.55 | raster | that is bad |
| 16:12.56 | raster | for power |
| 16:13.00 | raster | andy's patch fixes that |
| 16:13.04 | raster | its a glamo bug |
| 16:13.14 | Dave | wurp2audio |
| 16:13.16 | raster | it doesnt auto-power off the sd clock line as requested when idle |
| 16:13.20 | cjb | raster: how do you define "GPS IO" |
| 16:13.21 | cjb | ? |
| 16:13.24 | *** join/#openmoko anno^da (n=anno^da@p5B07CBA1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:13.32 | Dave | wurp2py |
| 16:13.43 | SpeedEvil | raster: yes - but that's not an issue - this should cause power problems, but not GPS problems. |
| 16:13.47 | cjb | raster: the GPS is going to output NMEA over the serial port once per second |
| 16:14.06 | cjb | raster: we don't tell it when it can do that. it does it itself. we can't say "for this 20ms, don't use your radio". |
| 16:14.13 | cjb | (I think this is SpeedEvil's point.) |
| 16:14.26 | SpeedEvil | It needs a lock on the satellites all the time for optimum prformance. |
| 16:14.40 | Dave | HDOP: 1.0 :D |
| 16:14.50 | Dave | oh it was nice, I was out at the pool the other day |
| 16:15.00 | Dave | I got a 6/4 fix in 0.5seconds :P |
| 16:15.16 | raster | SpeedEvil: i know it should cause only power problems |
| 16:15.16 | wurp2|semi_away | mwester: So your stuff (or some equivalent) was never pulled into the mainline? Or am I just making the mistake of using a FSO kernel instead of one built from the 2007.2 branch? |
| 16:15.19 | raster | SpeedEvil: it is a hw issue |
| 16:15.32 | raster | SpeedEvil: of course, but the choise is - you fix the hw youself with a soldering iron |
| 16:15.38 | raster | everyone has to send their FR's back for repqair |
| 16:15.44 | raster | OR we work a software workaround |
| 16:15.50 | *** join/#openmoko alvarezp (n=alvarezp@201.139.193.235) |
| 16:15.54 | cjb | raster: careful, that line could be taken out of context :) |
| 16:16.00 | raster | every product on the planet pretty much is full of software workarounds fo hw bugs |
| 16:16.10 | cjb | it's true. |
| 16:16.31 | wurp2|semi_away | Dave: You got a gps fix on a FR in 0.5 seconds? |
| 16:16.31 | raster | and normally these are worked around like we are doing now long before release |
| 16:16.36 | Dave | yeah |
| 16:16.39 | raster | and without you even knowing there was an issue to start wtih |
| 16:16.40 | Dave | but I agree it's totally flaky |
| 16:16.45 | Dave | sometimes it takes five minutes |
| 16:17.00 | Dave | or more, depending on location, time of day, and satellites in the sky, etc. |
| 16:17.05 | mwester | wurp2|semi_away: Some of my stuff has not yet made it into the "stable" kernel; it'll get there when OM gets serious about fixing the problems that those patches address. Until then, they will continue to fuddle about with reliability issues with the GSM and data. Along with the kernel patches, i also have some APM configs to woraround known problems that still exist. |
| 16:17.07 | cjb | raster: yeah, it's a shame that your test environment didn't pick this up. |
| 16:17.12 | Dave | and other times you find out your internal antenna is broken! |
| 16:17.13 | Dave | :D |
| 16:17.18 | cjb | raster: s/your/FIC's/, of course |
| 16:17.23 | Dave | whines at Speedevil |
| 16:17.24 | raster | cb22: i think we could "suspend" gps while doing sd io |
| 16:17.38 | cjb | raster: suspend *what*? |
| 16:17.41 | raster | we should be able to suspend it without it losing its satellite and internal data |
| 16:17.42 | cjb | raster: turn off the GPS radio? |
| 16:17.52 | raster | aleast for a short period while flushing out to sd or reading data |
| 16:17.58 | *** join/#openmoko ernst (n=ernst@blfd-4db0e753.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 16:18.10 | ernst | Hello Mokos |
| 16:18.17 | raster | cjb: no suspend the whole unit |
| 16:18.20 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@fl-69-69-22-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 16:18.25 | raster | put it in a paused state |
| 16:18.38 | raster | where it doesnt readany satellite data for a period of time |
| 16:18.40 | raster | then back on |
| 16:18.43 | ernst | I search a Navigation tool and i want to have the tool navit but i can't find it. |
| 16:18.50 | raster | unblox may be able to help us here |
| 16:19.00 | ernst | Do anyone know about Servers ? |
| 16:19.07 | Dave | What servers? |
| 16:19.13 | ernst | Navit |
| 16:19.29 | ajbrun | hi all - anyone know how well the screen protectors from zagg.com fit together? |
| 16:19.34 | ernst | http://aiurlano.netsons.org/OpenMoko/ipk/armv4t/ the link ist brocken |
| 16:19.39 | ajbrun | The full size ones that is that goes front and back |
| 16:20.00 | SpeedEvil | raster: you pretty fundamentally can't suspend easily for short periods with no consequences. |
| 16:20.03 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g228019064.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:20.22 | wurp2|semi_away | ernst: I think navit should be in the standard 2007.2 repositories... |
| 16:20.36 | cjb | SpeedEvil: how short, and which consequences? |
| 16:20.38 | SpeedEvil | raster: Your noise and ability to hold the signal will always drop unfortunately. |
| 16:20.39 | wurp2|semi_away | ernst: Did you try 'opkg update; opkg list | grep navit'? |
| 16:21.05 | SpeedEvil | cjb: It really depends where the noise is getting in. |
| 16:21.21 | SpeedEvil | cjb: if it's noise on the VCO, then that could have very bad effects. |
| 16:21.22 | raster | lets see |
| 16:21.28 | ajbrun | i guess it's worth while to get the full body protector over just the screen protrector? |
| 16:21.31 | raster | sure - it will have consequences |
| 16:21.36 | raster | but maybe we can make it work |
| 16:21.36 | wurp2|semi_away | mwester: Great, your stuff will be in SHR :-) |
| 16:21.37 | ernst | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:21.50 | wurp2|semi_away | ernst: You did opkg update first? |
| 16:21.50 | raster | ie if we can suspend for 200ms |
| 16:21.54 | raster | do some SDIO |
| 16:21.56 | raster | hen wake up again |
| 16:22.00 | raster | go suspend again for 200ms |
| 16:22.00 | TAsnn | ajbrun, why do you need the full body? |
| 16:22.01 | raster | etc. etc. |
| 16:22.04 | ernst | :) |
| 16:22.04 | SpeedEvil | raster: it depends where the noise goes. |
| 16:22.05 | ernst | no |
| 16:22.21 | wurp2|semi_away | ernst: Please put my userid at the beginning of your messages, there's too much traffic to find them otherwise |
| 16:22.22 | raster | SpeedEvil: assuming the noise is gone as the sd clokc is off when sdio is off |
| 16:22.25 | SpeedEvil | raster: if it's corrupting the GPS chipsets idea of accurate time, then it's basically got to re-lock. |
| 16:22.29 | wurp2|semi_away | ernst: You'll need to |
| 16:22.37 | wurp2|semi_away | ernst: Need to opkg update, that is |
| 16:23.07 | raster | we might be able to |
| 16:23.08 | raster | might not |
| 16:23.10 | raster | lets see |
| 16:23.17 | SpeedEvil | raster: there are several possibilities - it's simply massive jamming signal. This will be - more or less - similar to walking under a tree. |
| 16:23.40 | ernst | :wurp2|semi_away so response |
| 16:24.16 | ernst | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:24.22 | SpeedEvil | raster: It could be corrupting the VCO, which will cause the time that the GPS chipset thinks it is to drift randomly when the SD clock is on. This will act as very random jumps in position, and horrible performance as it has to re-lock while 'impossible' things happen. |
| 16:25.08 | SpeedEvil | raster: more actual in-detail tests and inspections of schematics may reveal stuff. |
| 16:25.15 | *** join/#openmoko MoR4euZ (n=mor4euz@port-87-234-145-132.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 16:26.14 | *** join/#openmoko blan (n=blan@dslb-092-075-245-101.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:26.21 | SpeedEvil | Of course, this could be in combination with the bad soldering issue. |
| 16:27.25 | raster | i am just exploring a software-only fix |
| 16:27.29 | raster | here is a hw fix |
| 16:27.32 | raster | 'as such |
| 16:27.39 | raster | we have one that is confirmed - i think |
| 16:27.48 | SpeedEvil | raster: I agree - software nasty workarounds sound possible. |
| 16:27.51 | raster | but that hw fix isnt able to be updated "in the field" |
| 16:27.58 | *** join/#openmoko Guilt (n=Karthik@allegro/user/Guilt) |
| 16:28.00 | raster | *IF* we can gte a sw only fix |
| 16:28.03 | raster | it will be a huge help |
| 16:28.05 | raster | if not |
| 16:28.06 | ajbrun | TAsnn, is the full body one not worth it then? |
| 16:28.08 | raster | e are left with hw-only |
| 16:28.13 | SpeedEvil | raster: I'd be returning mine under warranty I suspect if I was in the US and had bought one. |
| 16:28.25 | raster | i would too |
| 16:28.45 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 16:28.45 | raster | but om doesnt seem to like working under the normal market rules of producing a product that is hardware |
| 16:28.48 | SpeedEvil | Are some not affected? |
| 16:28.48 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=kdean06@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 16:28.57 | raster | i think in the factory |
| 16:29.02 | raster | the test rig had a really strong signal |
| 16:29.07 | raster | so it was never noticed |
| 16:30.07 | cjb | raster: any idea why the hw fix isn't okay for the field? it's just adding a cap? |
| 16:30.42 | ajbrun | is the back of the freerunner fairly scratch resistant compared to the screen? |
| 16:30.44 | raster | cjb: "the field" means u need no special equimpent |
| 16:30.50 | raster | nor do u need to buy any components |
| 16:30.59 | raster | if u need to go buy some cap |
| 16:31.02 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:31.03 | raster | and get your soldering iron out |
| 16:31.09 | raster | it is no longer an "in he field" update |
| 16:31.13 | raster | tho some may be ABLE to do it |
| 16:31.16 | raster | it is a select few |
| 16:31.17 | cjb | oh, I see :) |
| 16:31.39 | cjb | I don't think it's only "a select few" for OM owners who can use a soldering iron, but I agree that it's not the majority. |
| 16:31.40 | raster | a software/firmware update is in-thefield |
| 16:31.54 | raster | as it is kind of expected u have a pc of some sort |
| 16:31.57 | raster | and a usb connection |
| 16:32.07 | raster | and that u can use it to update |
| 16:32.10 | cjb | (I would rather buy a cap and solder it than use the software hack, I guess.) |
| 16:32.28 | *** join/#openmoko zAMz1 (n=chatzill@mue-88-130-47-141.dsl.tropolys.de) |
| 16:32.29 | raster | also the runs and saps on the board of a phone are different to your 1980's beta-max |
| 16:32.39 | raster | it requiesa a muxh more skilled hand |
| 16:32.43 | raster | as its much finer-detail |
| 16:32.44 | cjb | I know. I work for OLPC. |
| 16:32.51 | SpeedEvil | And a young eye to actually see the damn things. |
| 16:32.55 | cjb | (Our board is four-layer surface mount.) |
| 16:32.59 | summatusmentis | cjb: you do? cool :) |
| 16:33.04 | raster | even if it were the coars-grained electronics that your average soldering iron and hand can handle |
| 16:33.04 | SpeedEvil | pours 100000 01005s over cjb. |
| 16:33.10 | raster | i'd say its not a field-upgradable fix |
| 16:33.10 | cjb | SpeedEvil: hahaha |
| 16:33.15 | SpeedEvil | notes cjb looks rather dusty. |
| 16:33.32 | raster | cjb: yeah - thats a whole level of complexity |
| 16:33.37 | raster | i do understand that YOU may be able to |
| 16:33.42 | raster | and we'll happily tell u how to do it |
| 16:33.48 | cjb | *nod* |
| 16:33.55 | raster | i'm just thinking about the other 99.9% of buyers |
| 16:33.55 | raster | :) |
| 16:34.11 | SpeedEvil | Modern components are silly. I'm currently putting a 32 bit 8M computer with SD into a board about 14*20mm |
| 16:34.17 | SpeedEvil | microSD |
| 16:34.19 | cjb | it would be a nice notion of community if some of us were willing to set up repair centers |
| 16:34.23 | cjb | to do the ECO for people for free |
| 16:34.24 | *** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 16:34.29 | Sargun | Dash uses OpenMoko right? |
| 16:34.35 | SpeedEvil | Sargun: hardware only |
| 16:34.41 | SpeedEvil | Sargun: kernel and drivers |
| 16:34.41 | cjb | I think I'd do a few, if it were just a 10-20 minute fix. |
| 16:34.42 | retracile | raster: there may be some qualified folks in metropolitan areas that could volunteer to do the soldering for people in the area... |
| 16:34.44 | SpeedEvil | Sargun: no software |
| 16:34.50 | *** join/#openmoko doc|work (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 16:34.51 | cjb | retracile: right |
| 16:34.54 | doc|work | stabs UPS |
| 16:34.58 | Sargun | SpeedEvil, Do you know how to get to the uBoot screen? |
| 16:35.03 | raster | cjb: i've mentioned before that perhaps we need tomake this community thing moe than just what it is |
| 16:35.05 | doc|work | RICHMOND, |
| 16:35.10 | retracile | cjb: you beat me in the typing ;) |
| 16:35.14 | SpeedEvil | Sargun: I think you might press the aux button when powering on - I've never used a FR. |
| 16:35.15 | doc|work | BC, CA 07/15/2008 5:38 A.M. REGISTERED WITH CLEARING AGENCY / SHIPMENT SUBMITTED TO CLEARING AGENCY |
| 16:35.23 | raster | allow community members to register to become authorised "Repair" and "cusotmisation" centers |
| 16:35.29 | doc|work | but at 10.45 AM it's departing philadelphia!? |
| 16:35.31 | raster | ie they know the FR in great dtail, hw and software |
| 16:35.36 | raster | but dont work for OM |
| 16:35.39 | raster | they can de-brick phones |
| 16:35.47 | cjb | raster: we've done this for OLPC, it's working well |
| 16:35.53 | raster | reflash custom firmware imagesfor people |
| 16:35.57 | cjb | http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Repair_centers |
| 16:36.00 | raster | and even do minor hw fixes |
| 16:36.12 | raster | OM would then support these "authorised" repairers |
| 16:36.12 | SpeedEvil | cjb: the phone is quite less dissasemblable than the OLPC |
| 16:36.19 | raster | by offering parts at a discount |
| 16:36.22 | SpeedEvil | cjb: the LCD is glued onto the board forex. |
| 16:36.27 | raster | offering actual phones at a discount |
| 16:36.30 | cjb | SpeedEvil: ah. |
| 16:36.42 | raster | offering things like listing of "official repari centerclosest to you is... cjb!" |
| 16:36.43 | raster | etc. |
| 16:36.44 | SpeedEvil | cjb: and that covers up the bluetooth and LCD connection points |
| 16:36.59 | Stroller | ajbrun: I order the full-body Invisishield, but if I'd seen a Freerunner first I would have just got a screen-protector. The back of the Freerunner's case is a thick matt black plastic and the sides are rubberised. I wouldn't worry about minor marks in it - I think it would be quite resistant, and they wouldn't show the way they might on a glossy-cased Nintendo DS |
| 16:37.08 | raster | so maybe these repair centers get to do warranty work like this and om pais for it |
| 16:37.11 | raster | pays |
| 16:37.19 | cjb | raster: it sounds like a good plan. |
| 16:37.21 | SpeedEvil | wants spare FR/neo cases. |
| 16:37.25 | raster | as it may be much cheaper to pay yopu $10/phone |
| 16:37.29 | raster | to resolder a cap |
| 16:37.34 | raster | than ship it back to taiwan |
| 16:37.35 | cjb | I'm sure it would be. |
| 16:37.36 | raster | fix it there |
| 16:37.37 | raster | ship it back |
| 16:37.39 | SpeedEvil | has a wifi upgrafe idea for GTA01. |
| 16:37.55 | SpeedEvil | raster: and 5% breakage rate. |
| 16:37.55 | raster | but i guess it could also give birth to a whole set of vertical markets |
| 16:38.03 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176097248.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:38.12 | raster | some of these "repair centers" |
| 16:38.17 | raster | can also offer extra services |
| 16:38.18 | cjb | raster: We had a problem with some OLPC boards that required connecting up a serial console to fix |
| 16:38.21 | raster | like custom firmware images for clients |
| 16:38.25 | raster | eg government |
| 16:38.30 | cjb | (disassemble laptop, attach serial connector, do fix, put back together, takes about 30 mins) |
| 16:38.33 | raster | or business |
| 16:38.36 | raster | anyway |
| 16:38.39 | raster | it was an idea bandied about |
| 16:38.44 | cjb | and we couldn't find anything cheaper than just sending out new machines |
| 16:38.45 | raster | if ythe cumminity likes it |
| 16:38.52 | SpeedEvil | passes raster an extra pack of 200 bandis. |
| 16:38.53 | raster | it 1. builds a world-wide support network fast |
| 16:39.09 | wurp2|semi_away | TeNoVi: If you want your issues to go away, use mwester's fix from http://moko.mwester.net/fixes.html |
| 16:39.12 | raster | 2. spreads the money around allowing these repair centers tomake a bit of money on their own to fund themselves if they want |
| 16:39.34 | cjb | any company would charge like $100/hour for the rework, and shipping would kill having our people do it. the community repair centers are what made the rework for those machines possible. |
| 16:40.13 | cjb | raster: we actually don't pay people for the OLPC rework. it's pretty shocking, but we found that people just wanted to help and were glad to replace things for people whose laptops had broken. |
| 16:40.19 | raster | where were u doing the fixes? |
| 16:40.31 | *** join/#openmoko anno^da (n=anno^da@p5B07CBA1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:40.49 | cjb | the companies we looked at contracting were in Boston, our factory is in Shanghai/Taipei, and the community repair centers are all over. |
| 16:40.50 | raster | interesting |
| 16:40.56 | raster | i guss iw as being more commercially minded |
| 16:41.06 | raster | no such thing as a free lunch - i believe that |
| 16:41.14 | raster | so wondering how ot make ti work and scale |
| 16:41.16 | cjb | yeah, I would have expected that too |
| 16:41.22 | raster | and in the end u'll have to accept stuff costs money |
| 16:41.25 | cjb | there's a lot of goodwill around the OLPC project, people believe in it |
| 16:41.25 | raster | parts, time etc. |
| 16:41.37 | cjb | it's remarkable that the goodwill is still there, because we do a pretty bad job of managing it sometimes |
| 16:41.37 | raster | i know i just dont have the time to do goodwill thingslike that |
| 16:41.38 | cjb | but it's there |
| 16:41.41 | cjb | I think OpenMoko is like this too |
| 16:41.43 | raster | my personal time is so valuable to me |
| 16:41.48 | raster | no way in hell would i do it |
| 16:41.53 | raster | but then i may be an exception |
| 16:41.56 | raster | as i'm so busy |
| 16:42.02 | raster | open soruce projects to work on |
| 16:42.04 | raster | om work |
| 16:42.05 | cjb | the average OM owner would fix up someone else's OM for free, because they know it would suck if theirs broke, and they like helping people |
| 16:42.10 | raster | a real lie somehwre between them |
| 16:42.25 | raster | maybe i underestmate how many peolpe there are with nothing to do... |
| 16:42.25 | raster | :) |
| 16:42.29 | cjb | maybe :) |
| 16:42.35 | ajbrun | Stroller, does the full body one 'show' at all on the edges where the front meets the back? |
| 16:43.07 | ajbrun | i know you wouldn't, but if it's a nice smooth fit, i might anyway since it's not too expensive |
| 16:43.39 | Stroller | ajbrun: I don't know - it hasn't arrived yet. |
| 16:43.48 | ajbrun | ah lol :p |
| 16:44.16 | ajbrun | when it due to arrive? |
| 16:45.20 | *** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.168.111) |
| 16:46.06 | Stroller | ajbrun: I'm not sure. I think it's overdue. It's been 11 days now. |
| 16:46.47 | Stroller | ajbrun: I have two 20% discount codes here, BTW. Let me know if you want one. |
| 16:47.01 | cjb | raster: a correction -- we actually said that repair centers can charge extra money if they want to, but no-one has so far. I guess they probably would start doing that if the number of repairs they got sent went up such that it wasn't easy to keep on top of them anymore. |
| 16:47.07 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-218-123-8.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:47.17 | cjb | it sort of depends how many repair centers we end up with, how saturated they get. |
| 16:47.17 | ajbrun | Stroller, that would be great |
| 16:47.42 | *** join/#openmoko DaveLab (n=dave@pool-141-150-11-209.mad.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:47.44 | DaveLab | Hail! |
| 16:47.53 | ajbrun | i was going to search the net for one, but if you have one that you're willing to give, then that's sure ti work |
| 16:48.09 | TAsnn | ajbrun, i think i will buy the screen only version. |
| 16:48.27 | TAsnn | the full body of the fr seems to be durable enough. |
| 16:48.38 | ajbrun | screen only it is then since 2 of you have said so |
| 16:48.42 | TAsnn | i don't find any reason to protect the plastics from scratches. :) |
| 16:48.58 | TAsnn | ajbrun, i might be wrong. |
| 16:49.40 | TAsnn | ajbrun, anyhow, someone said 9 hours ago that he will be back with his fr and full body protector in 14 hours |
| 16:49.52 | TAsnn | soon enough we will know if it's needed. |
| 16:49.53 | TAsnn | :) |
| 16:50.10 | ajbrun | k - i might order tomorrow then |
| 16:50.27 | ajbrun | i don't like scratches, but i really want it to look good too |
| 16:50.45 | ajbrun | i don't want much of a gap between the back protector and the front |
| 16:50.52 | TAsnn | i really think shiny plastic looks cheap :) |
| 16:51.00 | *** join/#openmoko apol (i=apol@62.57.51.21.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 16:51.08 | raster | cjb: i guess thaqt depends |
| 16:51.12 | ajbrun | see through shiny plastic? |
| 16:51.21 | raster | cjb: as i said.. i'm underestimateing how many people have extra time on their hands |
| 16:51.25 | TAsnn | ajbrun, it will spark |
| 16:51.31 | ajbrun | spark? |
| 16:51.34 | raster | cjb: then again what peolpe donate in repair cnters i know i donate in open code |
| 16:51.34 | TAsnn | which i don't like |
| 16:51.37 | raster | so its the same thing |
| 16:51.43 | TAsnn | ajbrun, shine, reflect light. |
| 16:51.46 | ajbrun | ah |
| 16:51.50 | TAsnn | ajbrun, i don't like that. |
| 16:51.54 | raster | but i can imagine u'd want to have a minimal fee just to avoid "stupid" send-ins |
| 16:51.57 | TAsnn | i like mat finish :) |
| 16:52.00 | raster | so people need to think about it first |
| 16:52.10 | raster | before pestering you to fix their own mistakes for them |
| 16:52.38 | ajbrun | i'll probably come back here tomorrow and see if anyone has their full protector yet, but it's looking likly that i'll be getting just the one for the screen |
| 16:53.06 | *** join/#openmoko blan (n=blan@dslb-092-074-194-140.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:53.07 | DaveLab | Hmm, this python sure is annoying |
| 16:53.23 | cjb | raster: yeah, we have a rule that we fix hardware problems only, nothing like reflashes or reinstalls. |
| 16:53.47 | doc|work | firmware upgrades possible too? |
| 16:54.01 | doc|work | stuff that can't be distributed |
| 16:54.01 | TAsnn | ajbrun, what im more interested about is whether the protector affects responsiveness of the touch screen. |
| 16:54.15 | *** join/#openmoko jr (n=jr@p5493D48B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:54.19 | ajbrun | i wouldn't have thought it should |
| 16:54.22 | ajbrun | it's only 2mm |
| 16:54.31 | doc|work | TAsnn: marginally, and it's negated by the fact that you're less afraid of actually touching the screen :) |
| 16:55.13 | raster | cjb: the problem is when peolpe send things in that are not hw problems |
| 16:55.19 | raster | just because theyare too lazy to figure it out |
| 16:55.27 | raster | so u need to put an "incentive" price |
| 16:55.30 | raster | like $10 for a fix |
| 16:55.33 | ajbrun | GAAAH - the freerunner deliver has been delayed by 10 days |
| 16:55.36 | ajbrun | GRRRRR |
| 16:55.43 | raster | to make them go "well i'll spend a it of time myself trying to figure out if its hw or software" |
| 16:55.44 | doc|work | o.O |
| 16:55.56 | ajbrun | europe is anyone cares |
| 16:56.42 | TAsnn | ajbrun, wtf no!!! :( |
| 16:56.44 | DaveLab | :P |
| 16:56.46 | DaveLab | haha |
| 16:56.48 | ajbrun | and apparently affects all freerunners |
| 16:57.02 | ajbrun | We have just had an update from Openmoko saying that that our delivery of |
| 16:57.02 | ajbrun | Freerunners has been delayed by new custom procedures in China. We were |
| 16:57.02 | ajbrun | expecting to have these in our office and ready to send out to you on the |
| 16:57.02 | ajbrun | 18th July. However Openmoko are now telling us that they will not be able |
| 16:57.02 | ajbrun | to ship them to us until 21st July so we now expect to have them ready to |
| 16:57.03 | ajbrun | send out on 28th July. |
| 16:57.12 | DaveLab | yep |
| 16:57.13 | cjb | raster: yeah, that sounds plausible |
| 16:57.22 | DaveLab | doc, so how's your freerunner? |
| 16:58.32 | kelvie | ouch |
| 16:58.47 | kelvie | and here I am contemplating working at home today to receive mien :P |
| 16:58.49 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-168-003.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:58.53 | doc|work | DaveLab: me? still waiting :/ should arrive today but UPS's tracking is all screwy so hard to tell |
| 16:59.10 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@cm207-109.liwest.at) |
| 16:59.13 | kelvie | doc|work: ups said mine arrived in Richmond already :O |
| 16:59.14 | cjb | yeah, I wonder what's up with UPS |
| 16:59.17 | kelvie | from shipping yesterday |
| 16:59.25 | ecraven | raster: quick evas question, can i register callbacks for on-click on rectangles, lines, etc? |
| 16:59.49 | doc|work | kelvie: mine is registered for clearing there too :) not sure if that means it will clear today though and be out for delivery tomorrow or what the story is |
| 17:00.13 | TAsnn | i just hope the 25th shipment from open moko . com won't delay too much! |
| 17:00.13 | kelvie | yeah.. mine's still scheduled for tomorrow though |
| 17:00.17 | kelvie | but I'm hoping :p |
| 17:00.24 | kelvie | since I live in Richmond anyways |
| 17:00.34 | kelvie | should have sent it to his work address |
| 17:01.02 | doc|work | kelvie: ah, cool, mine was scheduled for today, that'd suck :) |
| 17:01.39 | *** join/#openmoko meshuga_ (i=meshuga@c-67-183-112-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 17:01.39 | raster | ecraven: yup |
| 17:02.04 | kelvie | hehe |
| 17:02.17 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@net70-17.metalit.net) |
| 17:02.46 | doc|work | so, is this fix software only? |
| 17:03.18 | sontek | I have an openmoko in hand |
| 17:03.34 | cjb | doc|work: the fix is hardware. the software workaround might do the job, and if not there's a different and more complicated software workaround that might also do the job. |
| 17:03.51 | sontek | How long does it take to register to the phone service? |
| 17:03.58 | sontek | its mean saying "registering" for like 15 minutes |
| 17:04.09 | DaveLab | then it's probably not reading your SIM? |
| 17:04.40 | cjb | yeah, that's what it says when it can't talk to the SIM. |
| 17:04.46 | doc|work | cjb: hmmm, ok |
| 17:04.48 | sontek | how do I fix it? |
| 17:04.57 | doc|work | sontek: try reseating it |
| 17:05.22 | DaveLab | hahaha, and someone was all vigilant about UPS here |
| 17:05.23 | AntonTakk | i'm having that problem, have restarted several times - no luck' |
| 17:05.42 | doc|work | DaveLab: vigilant? |
| 17:05.52 | cjb | you can try using libgsm-tool |
| 17:05.59 | *** join/#openmoko grinich (n=grinich@204.245.206.235) |
| 17:06.03 | cjb | it might tell you whether AT commands are failing |
| 17:06.06 | AntonTakk | would it be best to power the freerunner off to try re-seating the sim? |
| 17:06.31 | Stroller | AntonTakk: you'll certainly need to remove the battery |
| 17:06.49 | AntonTakk | can always power via usb thou |
| 17:07.12 | Stroller | AntonTakk: when I had that I found that I had not locked the SIM card holder. Once you have pushed it down flat you need to slide it sideways. Note the "Lock ->" stamped in the holder |
| 17:07.34 | Stroller | I would personally power it off |
| 17:08.11 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176104086.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:08.57 | DaveLab | Yes |
| 17:09.13 | DaveLab | pesters ecraven |
| 17:09.34 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl_ (n=bumbl@91-113-112-149.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 17:10.29 | *** join/#openmoko kduboi1 (n=kevin@d149-67-242-122.clv.wideopenwest.com) |
| 17:10.48 | sontek | uh oh, It reseated it and now it wont power on |
| 17:10.51 | ecraven | raster: that is cool ;) are there some easy example applications i could learn of? |
| 17:10.54 | sontek | the top button blinks red |
| 17:10.57 | sontek | but it doesn't power on |
| 17:11.21 | AntonTakk | mine powered on as soon as i put the battery back in |
| 17:11.23 | raster | ecraven: aaaahmmmmmm |
| 17:11.43 | raster | ecraven: enlightenment cvs is full of code and examples |
| 17:11.50 | raster | but not really many ae small and easy |
| 17:11.51 | raster | and |
| 17:11.52 | sontek | which button is the power button? |
| 17:11.57 | sontek | i've hit both and its not powering up |
| 17:12.03 | AntonTakk | round one, next to the usb plug |
| 17:12.04 | sontek | its plugged in as well |
| 17:12.10 | AntonTakk | have to hold it for a few seconds |
| 17:12.21 | *** join/#openmoko djsigfault (n=chatzill@stout-dip1.nat.okstate.edu) |
| 17:12.29 | sontek | ahh, holding it works |
| 17:13.05 | *** join/#openmoko renato (n=renato@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:13.31 | *** join/#openmoko smurfy-phil (n=smurfy@ppp-88-217-24-158.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 17:14.54 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@host-84-220-79-31.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 17:16.31 | sontek | this interface is very cryptic :P |
| 17:16.36 | sontek | I have no idea what those icons mean |
| 17:17.28 | sontek | and when you send a message, the icons jump to the middle of the screen instead of staying at the bottom |
| 17:17.33 | AntonTakk | it's not a nuclear reactor - touch them and find out :) |
| 17:17.39 | sontek | thats what i'm doing :P |
| 17:17.52 | sontek | is it worth it to submit bug reports about this interface? or is it going away? |
| 17:17.54 | AntonTakk | lucky, phone-kit barfs on mine :( |
| 17:18.06 | AntonTakk | can't call of sms |
| 17:18.16 | AntonTakk | or* |
| 17:18.36 | Stroller | Wait, sontek! Let me hide in my concrete shelter before you press that! |
| 17:18.49 | AntonTakk | trying the tried and true "put paper behing it to hold it forward" :) |
| 17:18.54 | *** join/#openmoko polz_ (n=polz@cpe-90-157-213-131.dynamic.amis.net) |
| 17:19.23 | Stroller | AntonTakk: I also got my SIM the wrong way around the first time |
| 17:19.25 | Stroller | blushes |
| 17:19.57 | AntonTakk | Stroller: see, the odd thing is the very first time i turned it on, i was able to make a call and it worked beautifully |
| 17:20.56 | doc|work | so, those of us with gta02s, are we going to get hung out to dry when the gta03 with official updates when gets released? :/ |
| 17:21.00 | *** join/#openmoko thseiler (n=thomas@gprs01.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 17:21.11 | doc|work | er, badly phrased ^ |
| 17:21.16 | sontek | is there a way to switch to qwerty onscreen keyboard? |
| 17:21.21 | *** join/#openmoko balrog-k1n (n=balrog@cls22.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:21.45 | ebbe | doc|work: What do you mean? The programs should be usable on both |
| 17:22.20 | sontek | I haven't used this style keyboard in years, its killing me :P |
| 17:22.54 | Stroller | ebbe: yeah, but to be fair the GTA01 owners don't seem to be so well supported at present |
| 17:23.09 | doc|work | ebbe: what Stroller said |
| 17:23.20 | mwester | hehe! Ain't that the truth. |
| 17:23.24 | ebbe | Stroller: Why not? There are hardware issues (I have one too) |
| 17:23.37 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@195.6.104.193) |
| 17:23.39 | Stroller | ebbe: sorry? You have a GTA01? |
| 17:23.51 | ebbe | Stroller: Yes |
| 17:24.00 | Stroller | I understood that many of the new images didn't work on GTA01 |
| 17:24.15 | ebbe | Stroller: There are made versions that do |
| 17:24.27 | ebbe | I've tried ASU also |
| 17:24.40 | Elleo | sontek: http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Complete_QWERTY_Keyboard_On_The_Freerunner |
| 17:24.41 | ebbe | FSO, om2007.2 |
| 17:24.48 | sontek | so be honest, who here caries their stylus around? :P |
| 17:24.48 | Stroller | Official versions or community versiosn? |
| 17:24.58 | sontek | that thing is huge |
| 17:25.05 | Stroller | sontek: I would if I had cats |
| 17:25.09 | doc|work | sontek: I do :) |
| 17:25.10 | Stroller | I really like cats |
| 17:25.17 | mwester | There are no official versions of ASU for the GTA01 |
| 17:25.19 | doc|work | sontek: although that's for a nokia n800, not for a phone :) |
| 17:25.20 | Stroller | Bunnies hate being picked up |
| 17:25.33 | ebbe | Stroller: ASU official, and new versions om 2007.2 community.. but who cares? |
| 17:25.45 | sontek | I know the first thing i'm going to do is write on it with the pen |
| 17:25.51 | donomo | is ASU what shipped with gta02? what does that stand for? |
| 17:26.06 | doc|work | living xkcd :( |
| 17:26.09 | rivalarrival | All Sexed Up |
| 17:26.14 | mwester | Actember (new month) Software Update |
| 17:26.20 | donomo | lol |
| 17:26.22 | doc|work | hey, where'd the topic link go |
| 17:26.23 | doc|work | ? |
| 17:26.50 | mwester | ASU is not shipped with the device; it's not ready yet. The 2007.2 (aka GTK) firmware is shipped. |
| 17:27.02 | Elleo | doc|work: it was sacrificed infavour of the gps mailinglist link, as the topic was too long for both |
| 17:27.19 | doc|work | :( |
| 17:27.50 | rivalarrival | doc|work: Why not dump the warning about not being a stable phone... It doesn't make sense anyway... |
| 17:28.00 | sontek | doesn't this have wireless? |
| 17:28.01 | doc|work | rivalarrival: yeah it does :) |
| 17:28.03 | sontek | wifi* |
| 17:28.06 | Stroller | ebbe: I just got the impression that right now you don't have so many options if you have a GTA01. I mean, I guess it's cool that the community is providing updates, but don't you think that really Openmoko should be supporting both devices in their images? it does make you think that GTA01 owners might get stitched up. But hopefully Openmoko will support all their devices in a single image once they get the frameworks stabilised |
| 17:28.41 | Stroller | The warning about a stable phone could be replaced with a link to an FAQ in the wiki |
| 17:29.11 | rivalarrival | doc|work: Yeah, but it could be summarized: "phone is not yet stable" |
| 17:29.30 | rivalarrival | that would leave enough room for the package update link. :) |
| 17:29.40 | Stroller | Yeah, but a lot of people come on here asking "how much `not stable' is it?" |
| 17:29.47 | ebbe | Stroller: I really don't complain, and have anyone else with a gta01 that? |
| 17:29.57 | rivalarrival | Stroller: Tell them to buy it and find out. :-) |
| 17:30.10 | rivalarrival | or, RTFM |
| 17:30.17 | linuxxr | iits still a dev release |
| 17:30.59 | DaveLab | Regardless |
| 17:31.05 | *** join/#openmoko Blastur (n=kebab@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 17:31.59 | linuxxr | they will sell it on ebay ") |
| 17:32.18 | GoldenHawk | is still itchin' for his freerunner :/ |
| 17:32.46 | linuxxr | an some unfortinate body will buy it an all is well |
| 17:32.49 | sontek | ahh, so there is no ui/networkmanager type thing for wifi on it yet? |
| 17:33.18 | donomo | sontek: not that i can find :) |
| 17:33.22 | sontek | I'll work on that tonight :) |
| 17:33.24 | sontek | thats easy enough |
| 17:33.35 | *** join/#openmoko jeward (n=jeward@ares.chinoc.net) |
| 17:34.00 | jeward | I'm returning my iPhone today, is the Freerunner ready for prime time? |
| 17:34.13 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 17:34.18 | doc|work | but it is usable |
| 17:34.19 | sontek | jeward: not even close |
| 17:34.22 | doc|work | just :) |
| 17:34.31 | SpeedEvil | It's usable for very low levels of usable. |
| 17:34.34 | jeward | So what do you get, a wee linux box that can make phone calls? |
| 17:34.36 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:34.36 | sontek | jeward: but it can make phone calls :P |
| 17:34.49 | doc|work | SpeedEvil: it makes calls and can text, right? |
| 17:34.49 | jeward | What about calendaring/alarms/e-mail? |
| 17:34.50 | sontek | jeward: basically, and a very nice platform to hack on :) |
| 17:34.53 | jeward | :) |
| 17:34.57 | sontek | jeward: none of that is finished yet |
| 17:35.06 | doc|work | jeward: ah, now you're getting overly optimistic :) |
| 17:35.07 | sontek | jeward: well there is a calendar for it though |
| 17:35.21 | jeward | Can't you just drop something like Damn Small Linux on top of it? |
| 17:35.38 | unknown_lamer | now that emacs has dbus support I should roll an fso-emacs image and write an elisp ui for dialing |
| 17:35.47 | donomo | ha |
| 17:36.03 | unknown_lamer | you laugh now but someone will do it |
| 17:36.11 | jeward | You know it. :) |
| 17:36.34 | jeward | "What, can't dial the phone from emacs!? Inconceivable!" |
| 17:36.50 | donomo | today is my first full day with the freerunner. i trust the software enough to receive calls/sms. |
| 17:36.57 | doc|work | stallman: "Why hasn't someone done this yet?!" |
| 17:37.07 | jeward | Oh, well, minimally, that would do the trick. |
| 17:37.08 | donomo | so its my everyday phone until i get tired of recharging it every 12 hours |
| 17:37.15 | Elleo | jeward: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian |
| 17:37.19 | jeward | I could use cron for calendaring... ;) |
| 17:37.34 | TeNoVi | donomo: 12 hours in standby? |
| 17:37.52 | jeward | Wow, if you can drop debian on it, you're golden. |
| 17:38.26 | donomo | TeNoVi: thats with a fair amount of playing around on it yesterday |
| 17:39.14 | ebbe | donomo: And the latest updates? |
| 17:39.17 | TeNoVi | donomo: But you used suspend/resume? |
| 17:39.18 | Elleo | jeward: I don't think the phone is working in those circumstances yet, though some hacking around with something like http://wiki.neilandtheresa.co.uk/Titchy_Mobile might be fruitful if you're interested in going that way |
| 17:39.26 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 17:39.42 | donomo | ebbe: only what shipped. |
| 17:39.55 | donomo | TeNoVi: havent heard of suspend/resume |
| 17:40.06 | jeward | Would an HTC Universal be a good way to go presently? |
| 17:40.09 | ebbe | donomo: Battery life maybe a bit better with newest updates |
| 17:40.23 | donomo | ebbe: is there an opkg command to do that? |
| 17:40.37 | ebbe | opkg update; opkg upgrade |
| 17:40.39 | Elleo | jeward: depends what you want, I have a universal at the moment myself (until my freerunner arrives) |
| 17:40.47 | Elleo | and it's a fairly nice phone in general |
| 17:40.50 | Elleo | but a bit delicate |
| 17:40.51 | *** join/#openmoko luroh (n=ishmael@1-1-3-4a.va.gbg.bostream.se) |
| 17:41.00 | jeward | As in easily damaged? |
| 17:41.00 | donomo | ebbe: k. though im not sure if opkg update is really updating anything. it complains of key signature errors |
| 17:41.05 | Elleo | yeah |
| 17:41.22 | Elleo | mine is currently in need of some repairs, for the second time for different issues |
| 17:41.26 | ebbe | donomo: Just try the upgrade |
| 17:41.29 | jeward | So if you're upgrading to Freerunner, you must think it's the way to go. |
| 17:41.40 | Elleo | admittedly my phones tend to get slightly more rough treatment than most, due to them falling of bikes and stuff ;) |
| 17:41.50 | Elleo | off* |
| 17:41.56 | jeward | :) |
| 17:42.19 | TeNoVi | If I try to opkg upgrade it just exits X, and you see the kernel messages or something like that... |
| 17:42.21 | Elleo | well, I think it's the way to go for me, because I want to hack around with a lot of the stuff on there |
| 17:42.24 | Elleo | and I don't tend to use my phone as a phone very often |
| 17:42.49 | Elleo | mostly it's a ebook reader, mapping device and "emergency" internet access |
| 17:42.53 | jeward | I'll be falling back to the Treo 755P once I return the iPhone today. |
| 17:43.04 | Elleo | with me only making an actual phone call once every month or so |
| 17:43.16 | abraxa_ | TeNoVi: That's why I removed the "opkg upgrade" from the "getting started with your freerunner page". It breaks things too often. |
| 17:43.34 | jeward | Primary thing for me would be SMS, then ssh, then phone, calendar, etc. |
| 17:43.51 | ebbe | Wops, then don't listen to me then.. :) |
| 17:44.07 | TeNoVi | hmm. I can't download the new "list" when I opkg update either. I get a 404 message. Any reason why? The internet connection is fine |
| 17:44.19 | Elleo | well, a universal will provide those things in one form or another (windows mobile has mobile putty, although that's a bit of a pain, or titchy mobile does a very nice job) |
| 17:44.37 | Elleo | or you can install openmoko on it |
| 17:44.53 | Elleo | but last time I tried the power management on the universal under openmoko was terrible |
| 17:45.05 | Elleo | and it runs very hot |
| 17:45.53 | Elleo | butand having a built in keyboard is handy |
| 17:46.29 | Elleo | but if you're likely to drop it at all, or have it get knocked around then it's maybe not the way to go |
| 17:47.17 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E17F72.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:48.31 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@85.182.50.182) |
| 17:51.19 | DaveLab | Right :P |
| 17:51.27 | DaveLab | a modular deal for input devices would be nice |
| 17:51.31 | DaveLab | or whatever :] |
| 17:51.42 | TAsnn | sorry for the really out of topic q |
| 17:51.51 | TAsnn | but what's the english name for | |
| 17:51.53 | TAsnn | ? |
| 17:51.57 | TAsnn | for the sign | that is. |
| 17:52.26 | sontek | what development environment do most people use on the moko? |
| 17:52.29 | sontek | C? Java? Python? |
| 17:52.33 | *** join/#openmoko ace (n=ace@cable-82-119-8-95.cust.blue-cable.de) |
| 17:52.48 | Tanuva | TAsnn: its a pipe |
| 17:52.48 | *** part/#openmoko ace (n=ace@cable-82-119-8-95.cust.blue-cable.de) |
| 17:52.58 | TAsnn | not in linux |
| 17:53.03 | TAsnn | the actual sign's name :) |
| 17:53.13 | TAsnn | like + is plus and . is a dot ;) |
| 17:53.14 | Tanuva | yes, its a pipe. |
| 17:53.30 | ebbe | sontek: C, C++, Python |
| 17:53.42 | Tanuva | theres no name for this sign since its used nowhere else i |
| 17:53.50 | Tanuva | i'd say. |
| 17:53.57 | TAsnn | Tanuva, i doubt that. |
| 17:54.13 | Tanuva | theres a mathematical use, but for that I only nkow the german name |
| 17:55.23 | *** join/#openmoko Maybelline (n=jeremy@68-187-38-92.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) |
| 17:55.26 | DaveLab | Why does the Internet setting configuration app in Qtopia crash the phone? |
| 17:55.27 | TAsnn | Tanuva, what's that? |
| 17:55.46 | TAsnn | modulo is the english name for the mathematical use iirc |
| 17:55.52 | TAsnn | though the sign must have a name. |
| 17:55.57 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@vpnd014.ugent.be) |
| 17:56.51 | Tanuva | no, modulo is something else |
| 17:57.10 | spydon | modulo... isnt that % |
| 17:57.14 | Tanuva | its the sign for what abs() does |
| 17:57.16 | Tanuva | yes |
| 17:57.32 | Tanuva | the absolute value of a number |
| 17:58.16 | spydon | like 4%3=1 |
| 17:58.25 | TAsnn | isn't % in programming languages? |
| 17:58.27 | DaveLab | ebbe, so am I the odd man out, using perl? ;) |
| 17:58.28 | TeNoVi | Can I control the Neo via vnc? I've managed to do it the other way... |
| 17:58.29 | fuzzyt | TAsnn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_bar |
| 17:58.36 | Tanuva | TAsnn: no, theres a difference between % and | |
| 17:58.43 | TAsnn | because iirc 2|8 is 8%2 |
| 17:58.52 | Tanuva | never heard of that |
| 17:58.53 | TAsnn | Tanuva, ok ;) |
| 17:58.56 | spydon | Ah okay |
| 17:58.59 | ebbe | DaveLab: Well, maybe a little, byt aren't we all? :) |
| 17:58.59 | TAsnn | fuzzyt, that's cheating. |
| 17:59.04 | DaveLab | hah! |
| 17:59.05 | TAsnn | abs() |
| 17:59.06 | DaveLab | True enough ;) |
| 17:59.07 | TAsnn | is |
| 17:59.10 | TAsnn | | | |
| 17:59.17 | *** join/#openmoko Lo-lan-do (n=roland@mirenboite.placard.fr.eu.org) |
| 17:59.19 | DaveLab | pokes Leinir |
| 17:59.27 | Lo-lan-do | Hi again guys. |
| 17:59.28 | TAsnn | abs(-5) is |-5| |
| 17:59.35 | doc|work | ok, this is screwy, 5.38am, richmond canada, registered with clearing agency, 12.33pm arrival in Louisville kentucky? |
| 17:59.36 | DaveLab | Where are all you Qtopia users? :P |
| 17:59.38 | doc|work | kelvie: ^ |
| 17:59.43 | DaveLab | doc - ahahaha |
| 17:59.50 | DaveLab | YOU'RE GOING THE WRONG WAY! |
| 17:59.56 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5f8cf.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 17:59.56 | doc|work | stabs UPS |
| 18:00.10 | DaveLab | Actually it's funny, that's the way it likely has to travel. |
| 18:00.10 | linuxxr | dont kill him |
| 18:00.24 | Chocky | is a Qtopia "user" |
| 18:00.28 | doc|work | DaveLab: richmond is an hour from where I live, kentucky is ... not |
| 18:00.30 | DaveLab | It's probably one of those, everything has to be routed through a primary distribution hub. |
| 18:00.34 | doc|work | kentucky = far far away |
| 18:00.34 | Chocky | or rather, I have it, but I'm not using the phone as such |
| 18:00.37 | DaveLab | Doc, yeah but it's still, procedure :) |
| 18:00.40 | linuxxr | still in san pablo |
| 18:00.41 | DaveLab | doc, yeehaw? |
| 18:00.42 | Lo-lan-do | Just wondering: if I write files to /home/root (rather than to the SD card), where is the data stored? One of the NAND/NOR flash thingies? |
| 18:00.46 | doc|work | DaveLab: :/ |
| 18:00.49 | *** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@i59F7049A.versanet.de) |
| 18:00.55 | DaveLab | Hey, I'm just telling you how it is. |
| 18:01.00 | doc|work | I wonder if they're pre-clearing the package, before it arrives |
| 18:01.04 | DaveLab | Doc, believe me, I am frequently similarly pissed. |
| 18:01.14 | DaveLab | Since there's a fucking transfer station less than a mile away from my house. |
| 18:01.16 | Chocky | as opposed to just clearing it? |
| 18:01.29 | doc|work | DaveLab: you should hijack the van |
| 18:01.30 | DaveLab | Yet some packages being shipped to me, arrive there then get shipped to 35min away from me |
| 18:01.39 | DaveLab | then back, for delivery, which is lame. |
| 18:01.48 | DaveLab | haha Funny you should mention that |
| 18:02.10 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
| 18:02.20 | DaveLab | One time it was an "emergency," or so I put it, so I called the company up, and they granted me clearance to pick it up at the txfr station :P |
| 18:02.22 | *** join/#openmoko Varox-DT (n=Varox@p4FD47C85.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:02.25 | DaveLab | It was a pain, though. |
| 18:02.30 | DaveLab | Clearly they aren't designed to do this. |
| 18:03.44 | doc|work | DaveLab: nice |
| 18:04.05 | DaveLab | Right |
| 18:04.23 | cnwdup | Since openmoko-messages crashes for me, I want to manually access the new SMS I got. I found something on the wiki concerning that task (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_SMS) but the line cu -l /dev/ttySAC0 doesn't work for me. It returns cu: /dev/ttySAC0: Line in use. Does this mean another process is accessing that device? |
| 18:04.31 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (n=fsteinel@pD9FBC350.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:04.36 | Lo-lan-do | writes some shell to preemptively download OSM tiles for TangoGPS for the whole town and neighbouring city |
| 18:04.47 | DaveLab | I'm just thankful I didn't have to face the full wrath of the overbearing bureaucracy here :D |
| 18:05.04 | Lo-lan-do | I hope the tile.openstreetmap.org people don't keep a close eye on their logs. |
| 18:05.26 | DaveLab | Like filling out ten thousand forms, and then getting them signed by six different people, and then bringing it back to the first, and then having to proceed in a similar manner with a secondary form... |
| 18:05.30 | DaveLab | oy |
| 18:06.13 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@70-1-215-217.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 18:06.13 | *** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.141.213) |
| 18:06.49 | spydon | I wonder if there is an app so you can tune the mic on the freerunner so you can change your voice when calling people... :P |
| 18:07.02 | SpeedEvil | spyre: not at the moment. |
| 18:07.06 | SpeedEvil | spyr: |
| 18:07.23 | SpeedEvil | There are a number of thoughts along that line. in the wiki. |
| 18:07.31 | spydon | hehe nice |
| 18:07.36 | doc|work | openmoko: phones for stalkers |
| 18:07.44 | spydon | Tabcompletion likes you SpeedEvil :P |
| 18:07.53 | SpeedEvil | For example - if you find someone having an annoyingly high voice, you can frequency shift them down. |
| 18:07.56 | SpeedEvil | Per number. |
| 18:08.08 | Chocky | sweet, auto attenuation |
| 18:08.14 | spydon | hehe that would be awesum |
| 18:08.27 | DaveLab | Can someone tell me about python-pygps? |
| 18:08.45 | SpeedEvil | Pythons! On a GPS! |
| 18:08.54 | DaveLab | SpeedEvil: haha |
| 18:09.02 | DaveLab | Speedevil, not quite. |
| 18:09.12 | DaveLab | I'm tired of these motherfucking snakes, on my motherfucking freerunner. |
| 18:09.21 | DaveLab | They never seem to do what I tell them :( |
| 18:09.53 | macdonalder | doc|work: kentucky... we're getting closer... |
| 18:09.54 | SpeedEvil | ponders snake - with accel. |
| 18:09.57 | *** join/#openmoko blat78 (n=blat78@p5B03C5D7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:10.25 | doc|work | macdonalder: marginally, it was supposed to be delivered today |
| 18:10.26 | *** join/#openmoko DocCod (n=doctomoe@88.207.136.98) |
| 18:10.43 | macdonalder | yeah, somehow it ended up on the east coast :S |
| 18:10.46 | cjb | aw, I thought my moko was here but it was another package that I don't care much about. |
| 18:10.58 | cjb | loses package roulette. |
| 18:11.07 | DaveLab | Speedevil, you're an evil evil man, you know that? :P |
| 18:11.09 | doc|work | haha |
| 18:11.11 | SpeedEvil | http://www.marcobarrera.com/games/snake.php |
| 18:11.18 | DaveLab | macdonalder: want me to pick it up for you? :P |
| 18:12.04 | macdonalder | mmm no thanks :P |
| 18:12.45 | *** join/#openmoko Varox-DT (n=Varox@p4FD47C85.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:13.28 | DaveLab | So where would I find the documentation (api), if any, for python-pygps? |
| 18:13.29 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-58-126.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:15.10 | *** join/#openmoko ralisi (n=raphael@91-66-238-33-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 18:15.15 | donomo | any idea on how to get opkg update to work in spite of signature failures? log: http://pastie.org/pastes/234020 |
| 18:16.16 | Lo-lan-do | donomo: It doesn't seem to cause problems. |
| 18:16.43 | Elleo | donomo: the signature check isn't the problem, the problem is that it's failing to download anything at all |
| 18:16.45 | donomo | Lo-lan-do: in the pastie, the opkg upgrade fails to download any updates and suggests running opkg update |
| 18:17.10 | donomo | Elleo: the net connection is good, or so i thought |
| 18:17.15 | donomo | double checks |
| 18:17.17 | Elleo | Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.gz, error 0 |
| 18:17.20 | Elleo | etc. |
| 18:17.36 | Elleo | it's not downloading the Packages.gz files in the first place |
| 18:17.44 | donomo | Elleo: i took that as a badly worded way to say the signature failed |
| 18:17.50 | donomo | Elleo: but i'll check the net connection |
| 18:18.28 | Elleo | try wgetting the file and see what happens |
| 18:19.48 | Xaos | ok...trying to setup a full development environment now (not just qemu like before). I'm guessing that I want to set it up as FSO. If I do that, then I can still install the apps from the 2007 and ASU repositories...right? (kinda like my own SHR-attempt) |
| 18:20.50 | donomo | Elleo: fixed the net connection, but similar error: http://pastie.org/234030 |
| 18:21.00 | *** join/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74) |
| 18:21.35 | *** join/#openmoko ab0oo (n=johng@c-76-97-204-50.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 18:21.56 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@16.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 18:21.57 | Elleo | donomo: I think the update should still have happened correctly, dispite the signature problem (there are no signature files at present) |
| 18:22.04 | Elleo | try doing the upgrade now and see what happens |
| 18:22.33 | GoldenHawk | Yay! My phone just shipped! *boogies down* |
| 18:22.47 | GoldenHawk | Good times ^.^ |
| 18:22.58 | donomo | Elleo: ah its looking better so far. thx |
| 18:23.05 | Sargun | Wait, Dash uses OpenMoko hardware? |
| 18:23.15 | *** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74) |
| 18:23.38 | Elleo | no problem :) |
| 18:23.44 | SpeedEvil | Sargun: openmoko designed |
| 18:24.01 | Sargun | Can I get the board design? |
| 18:24.07 | Sargun | or is it not open |
| 18:24.17 | SpeedEvil | yes, and yes. |
| 18:24.21 | Sargun | Where? |
| 18:24.34 | SpeedEvil | Buy, dissasemble, reverse engineer. |
| 18:24.36 | Sargun | wait, I can get the board design, but the board design is not open |
| 18:24.37 | Sargun | ah. |
| 18:24.38 | Sargun | ok |
| 18:24.40 | Chocky | laffs |
| 18:24.46 | Sargun | I was hoping I could find the JTAG port |
| 18:24.50 | Sargun | I have one |
| 18:25.01 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right. |
| 18:25.06 | SpeedEvil | Does it have USB? |
| 18:25.24 | Sargun | they have the USB port as a virtual USB ethernet interface |
| 18:25.26 | raster | SpeedEvil: the debug board? |
| 18:25.37 | SpeedEvil | raster: no - the dash |
| 18:25.47 | raster | oooh |
| 18:25.48 | raster | dunno |
| 18:25.55 | raster | i dont pay attention to dash |
| 18:25.57 | Sargun | CDC ethernet |
| 18:26.00 | raster | as its a us-only product |
| 18:26.03 | SpeedEvil | Sargun: does anything interesting happen to the usb-ids on boot when you press keys? |
| 18:26.10 | raster | useless outside the usa |
| 18:26.11 | raster | :( |
| 18:26.31 | Lo-lan-do | Hmm. FR hasn't frozen yet today. |
| 18:26.32 | SpeedEvil | Sargun: indicating there might be a serial entry into the bootloader like uboot |
| 18:26.39 | Sargun | SpeedEvil, I was in uBoot |
| 18:26.41 | Sargun | no serial entry |
| 18:26.46 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 18:26.50 | Lo-lan-do | Seems removing the SD card has other positive side-effects :-) |
| 18:26.53 | SpeedEvil | I assume no keyboard? |
| 18:26.59 | Sargun | no keyboard |
| 18:27.05 | Sargun | haven't yet taken it apart. |
| 18:27.30 | raster | dash as such isnt an "open device" |
| 18:27.39 | raster | it may happen to run linux |
| 18:27.47 | raster | and om may have happened to manufacture it for dash |
| 18:27.56 | SpeedEvil | And it uses an OM kernel. |
| 18:28.22 | SpeedEvil | Without I assume the glamo. |
| 18:28.40 | Sargun | They built their own kernel. |
| 18:28.50 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 18:29.01 | DaveLab | What are we fighting over now? |
| 18:29.11 | raster | no glamo |
| 18:29.15 | raster | lucky them |
| 18:29.17 | raster | :) |
| 18:29.18 | donomo | is there a clock app in opkg somewhere? |
| 18:29.36 | Chocky | see getting started guide |
| 18:29.36 | donomo | really misses a clock on the phone |
| 18:29.42 | donomo | k |
| 18:29.52 | SpeedEvil | while true; do date;done |
| 18:30.27 | donomo | while true; do festival speak `date`; done |
| 18:30.33 | vpv | I'm now running qtopia from the SD card, if I do "opkg upgrade", will it still upgrade the packages on the "main system", which is 2007.2 or whatever it's called |
| 18:31.12 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * rc5e172dc8df8 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/ (callscreen.cpp callscreen.h): [qtopia] Do not launch a command on call changes. We will use dbus... |
| 18:31.12 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * rbfd1f6cfb604 10/src/server/phone/callscreen/semithemed/ (callscreen.cpp callscreen.h): [power management] Do not suspend the device when we have active calls |
| 18:31.14 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r741502c03806 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qsoftmenubar.cpp: [softmenu] Do not show empty menus |
| 18:31.15 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r9de6c2b5db5a 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qsoftmenubar.cpp: [softmenu] Move the widget type check up |
| 18:31.17 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * ra2808905d337 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qsoftmenubar.cpp: [softmenu] Disable/Enable the "Options" entry depending on having options |
| 18:31.20 | LetoTo | vpv: if your / is the mounted sd, then the sd |
| 18:32.03 | kelvie_work | hmm.. so what's going to happen with the sdcard/GPS issue? |
| 18:32.08 | kelvie_work | will we be able to send it back? :( |
| 18:32.22 | SpeedEvil | kelvie_work: It sounds probable. |
| 18:32.27 | *** join/#openmoko webar7_ (n=webart@CPE0080c8f208a5-CM001371173cf8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 18:32.56 | kelvie_work | gah.. back to the US and back is almost 100 dollars |
| 18:32.57 | donomo | opkg upgrade.. Restarting Dropbear SSH server: Connection to 192.168.0.202 closed by remote host. |
| 18:33.03 | donomo | nice. |
| 18:33.05 | kelvie_work | thanks to UPS |
| 18:33.10 | vpv | LetoTo: I'll have to check on that, but I think it had the SD card mounted in /media/something. Though how would it be able to run qtopia then? But anyways I'm now waiting for it to hopefully suspend... |
| 18:33.40 | *** join/#openmoko dragon-djani (n=kvirc@80.254.110.1) |
| 18:34.01 | doc|work | macdonalder: hmmm, now seems it's in vanc |
| 18:34.13 | doc|work | macdonalder: REGISTERED WITH CLEARING AGENCY / RELEASED BY CLR AGENCY. NOW IN-TRANSIT :D |
| 18:34.17 | *** join/#openmoko roudoudoudavid_ (n=roudoudo@gar31-1-82-224-8-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:34.19 | doc|work | kelvie_work: how about yours? |
| 18:35.21 | kelvie_work | doc|work: UPS INTERNAL ACTIVITY still :p |
| 18:35.26 | kelvie_work | since 3am.. which I assume is when it gets off the airplane |
| 18:35.36 | kelvie_work | I'm scheduled for tomorrow nayways |
| 18:36.19 | macdonalder | doc|work: yeah, I don't think that means it's here... it's just that customs work by people in richmod to pre-clear it has been done :S |
| 18:38.06 | kelvie_work | I'm just worried about sending it back now to get the GPS thing fixed :/ |
| 18:38.25 | doc|work | macdonalder: dunno, we'll see, but that seems to read like Registered with clearing agency has sub sections, one of which is "released by clearing agency and now in transit" |
| 18:38.26 | kelvie_work | even if you put "for repairs" on it.. customs will still charge you GST/PST for the actual value of the thing |
| 18:39.10 | TeNoVi | I can't get trough with opkg upgrade. It just stops, and I've to restart the phone. When I run opkg upgrade again, it starts over again |
| 18:39.17 | *** join/#openmoko torito (n=deepsigh@ti0034a380-dhcp0755.bb.online.no) |
| 18:41.17 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g228088070.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:42.06 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@16.106.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 18:42.06 | cnwdup | Oh, actually it doesn't seem to be openmoko-messages which segfaults for me. It seems to be libgsmd which segfaults if I want to read SMS. How can I make this right or investigate further? Should I file a bug report or is this already known? |
| 18:42.06 | AciD | hey |
| 18:42.25 | Lo-lan-do | TeNoVi: Run opkg upgrade inside screen, or from the OM terminal. |
| 18:42.25 | AciD | I'm trying to share my internet connection following this procedure (I'm ubuntu) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner |
| 18:43.09 | AciD | but this implies to modify the /etc/network/interface file which I do not want (it's monitored by networkmanager). is there a way to share the connection without touching this file ? |
| 18:43.45 | edistar | AciD: yes, usb networking via dnrd |
| 18:44.12 | *** join/#openmoko fuzzyt (n=tim@70.59.221.233) |
| 18:44.12 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e44b173.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 18:44.22 | edistar | AciD: check the wiki, usb networking, then somewhere on the site you'll find a script for dnrd and the source for it.. just install the software and everytime you want to set up the usb network run the script |
| 18:44.40 | AciD | hum hum |
| 18:44.47 | edistar | AciD: it's really easy |
| 18:44.56 | edistar | AciD: if you stop the script everything is back to normal |
| 18:45.05 | edistar | AciD: so no danger at all |
| 18:45.09 | AciD | i'll try that if I find the thread |
| 18:45.14 | AciD | thx for the tip |
| 18:46.16 | Stroller | AciD: look on the Ubuntu forums about internet connection sharing and see the "Ubuntu" or networkmanager way of doing it. |
| 18:46.54 | Lo-lan-do | I'm not sure the FR is currently on the same level of newbie-friendliness as Ubuntu. |
| 18:47.02 | *** join/#openmoko zouzou (n=zouzou@unaffiliated/zouzou) |
| 18:47.22 | Stroller | breathes a sigh of relief that his internet connection is up |
| 18:47.26 | Stroller | Fucking pets |
| 18:47.36 | Stroller | I'll have to buy a spare telephone cable |
| 18:48.38 | doc|work | Stroller: hah, someone I worked with had that problem too. Rabbit chewed numerous mouse cables |
| 18:49.24 | mjr | fucking pets is generally frowned upon |
| 18:49.48 | Stroller | They're little shits, man |
| 18:50.15 | Arg0naut | anyone using the mediaplayer? |
| 18:50.19 | doc|work | s/they're/their |
| 18:50.45 | *** join/#openmoko LionKMP (n=lion@catv-5985b8e7.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 18:51.03 | *** join/#openmoko fuzzdk (n=fuzzdk@1503032171.dhcp.dbnet.dk) |
| 18:51.13 | edistar | Arg0naut: yes |
| 18:51.54 | Stroller | Now they're down the other end of the room, looking all lop-eared & adorable. |
| 18:52.05 | *** join/#openmoko lameass (n=tim@ppp-62-216-212-4.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:52.22 | doc|work | Stroller: dinner! |
| 18:52.29 | Stroller | A water-pistol has been very effective at training them off chewing cables, but sometimes they just can't resist. |
| 18:52.34 | doc|work | hahaha |
| 18:52.38 | Stroller | doc|work: :P |
| 18:52.51 | doc|work | Stroller: water + cables = magic smoke escape |
| 18:53.02 | doc|work | when misaimed |
| 18:53.09 | Stroller | I don't think I could ever eat rabbit again. It was excellent last time I had it. |
| 18:53.14 | doc|work | hehehe |
| 18:53.44 | doc|work | they should allow you to GPS track UPS vans :o |
| 18:53.46 | Stroller | I've stayed in this gite in Provence a couple of times - the owner is the most AMAZING cook |
| 18:54.52 | edistar | doc|work: they should just switch on the FR, so you can track your device on the way ;) |
| 18:55.06 | *** join/#openmoko jfrousval (n=jfrousva@ARouen-152-1-41-72.w90-22.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:55.31 | doc|work | edistar: haaha |
| 18:55.38 | doc|work | edistar: probably wouldn't get a fix :) |
| 18:55.49 | TeNoVi | Lo-lan-do: (sry was away) I'm running the opkg upgrade from the OM terminal. |
| 18:55.51 | edistar | doc|work: depends on the microSD ;) |
| 18:56.10 | doc|work | hehe |
| 18:56.31 | edistar | has anyone got a patched kernel? |
| 18:56.32 | spydon | Can anyone add "http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Special:Random" to the Wiki navigation menu again? :P |
| 18:56.36 | kelvie_work | I wonder if I should refuse the package when it arrives :O |
| 18:56.44 | kelvie_work | so I don't have to send it back to get the GPS fixed (if necessary) |
| 18:56.53 | doc|work | kelvie_work: it might not be :/ |
| 18:56.54 | kelvie_work | or would that be bad :p |
| 18:57.09 | kelvie_work | doc|work: what might not be? it may not be broken? :p |
| 18:57.26 | doc|work | kelvie_work: it might not be necessary to do a hardware fix |
| 18:57.30 | kelvie_work | oh |
| 18:57.35 | kelvie_work | it seems likely |
| 18:57.47 | kelvie_work | then again if it isn't _too_ difficult I could hack it myself (in the OpenMoko spirit :p) |
| 18:57.49 | doc|work | you might even be able to ship to koolu maybe? that'd be much nicer |
| 18:57.55 | SpeedEvil | At best the software workaround is a dairly broken hack. |
| 18:57.58 | SpeedEvil | fairly. |
| 18:57.59 | doc|work | yes |
| 18:58.00 | kelvie_work | yeah |
| 18:58.14 | SpeedEvil | In that you access the SD, and it jams your GPS. |
| 18:58.15 | kelvie_work | either way it's ~100$ round trip |
| 18:58.23 | kelvie_work | to the US and back |
| 18:58.26 | doc|work | kelvie_work: should be covered by warranty |
| 18:58.32 | doc|work | kelvie_work: no, koolu are in canada |
| 18:58.37 | kelvie_work | oh |
| 18:58.42 | kelvie_work | they're just a distributor though |
| 18:58.54 | kelvie_work | wasn't there a guy from koolu here? :p |
| 18:58.56 | doc|work | might be able to fix things though |
| 18:59.00 | doc|work | kelvie_work: yes! :) |
| 18:59.04 | doc|work | can't remember who |
| 18:59.17 | kelvie_work | either way I'm not that optimistic |
| 19:00.29 | *** join/#openmoko eeerival (n=rival@cpe-65-25-55-55.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 19:01.36 | *** join/#openmoko stephelton (n=stephen@tx1-6.intrameta.com) |
| 19:02.01 | stephelton | anyone had issues with fr not registering via gsm? |
| 19:02.21 | doc|work | stephelton: yep, reseat the sim card seems to work for most |
| 19:02.21 | AciD | I do |
| 19:02.35 | AciD | how do you do that doc|work ? |
| 19:02.39 | SpeedEvil | It may or may not be possible for someone near you to do the work to repair the GPS. More details on hyow OM's going to handle it need to come out. |
| 19:02.44 | doc|work | AciD: take it out, put it back in again :) |
| 19:02.45 | AciD | ah, re-seat |
| 19:02.49 | doc|work | hehe |
| 19:02.50 | sontek | whats the status of porting apps to the openmoko? Is it just if they can run on the processor it has? |
| 19:02.51 | AciD | not reset |
| 19:02.53 | AciD | :) |
| 19:02.55 | doc|work | :) |
| 19:03.01 | sontek | so something that has been ported to n810, should be easy? |
| 19:03.06 | doc|work | easier :) |
| 19:03.30 | Stroller | stephelton: yes, when the card wasn't inserted properly. I had it the wrong way round. You also need to slide the SIM card holder into the "Lock ->" position once its closed |
| 19:03.31 | *** join/#openmoko mmaestri (n=mmaestri@201.254.92.61) |
| 19:03.32 | mjr | sontek, well, mostly you need to take into account the limited resolution and stuff |
| 19:03.41 | AciD | fr keeps asking for pin code, but 0000 (which is mine uber pin code) just don't pass the verification. any ideas why ? |
| 19:03.48 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-152-1-90-239.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:03.56 | stephelton | Stroller: doc|work thanks i'll play around with it |
| 19:04.09 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 19:04.12 | AciD | the pin code outputs * instead of real letter and numbers so I can't check what's the output.. |
| 19:04.20 | cjb | AciD: that can mean that the SIM is incompatible electrically, I think |
| 19:04.30 | sontek | whats the browser called? I don't see a menu entry for it |
| 19:04.32 | cjb | avtobiff: there was some community@ or device-owners@ thread about it |
| 19:04.33 | AciD | :( |
| 19:04.38 | fuzzdk | Anyone have an idea about when you can buy a fr with a gps antenna that works? |
| 19:04.44 | mw| | AciD: you got a quite new SIM card, don't you |
| 19:04.55 | edistar | sontek: opkg install openmoko-browser2 and then it should appear in the menu |
| 19:04.56 | AciD | new from last summer |
| 19:04.59 | edistar | at the very bottom |
| 19:05.12 | *** part/#openmoko Lo-lan-do (n=roland@mirenboite.placard.fr.eu.org) |
| 19:05.15 | mw| | AciD: if possible, try an older model SIM-card if you have |
| 19:05.24 | kelvie_work | fuzzdk: it seems all of this just got found out today, so until the OM guys say anything everyone's just guessing at this point |
| 19:05.39 | AciD | i'll give it a try with my other phone, as soon as I manage to share my internet connection and update the FR |
| 19:05.46 | AciD | thx for the tips guys |
| 19:05.52 | kelvie_work | It seems unlikely that they're going to ask all 2k+ of us to send our phones all back for repair... |
| 19:05.56 | fuzzdk | Ok. thanks for the info. Don't know if I should cancel my order. |
| 19:06.02 | kelvie_work | same |
| 19:06.08 | kelvie_work | it arrives tomorrow.. considering just sending it back |
| 19:06.21 | kelvie_work | but I should email them first |
| 19:06.23 | edistar | AciD: try deactivating the sim verification and then try it in the FR again |
| 19:06.48 | AciD | edistar > how so ? |
| 19:07.00 | edistar | AciD: no idea, but it worked for me |
| 19:07.10 | *** join/#openmoko newbieguyforlinu (n=newbiegu@122.162.70.118) |
| 19:07.12 | edistar | AciD: in my normal phone I could deactivate pin entry |
| 19:07.21 | *** join/#openmoko newbieguyforlinu (n=newbiegu@122.162.70.118) |
| 19:07.31 | cjb | kelvie_work: they'll do it in software if they possibly can. that doesn't mean the hardware fix won't be a good idea anyway, though. |
| 19:07.33 | newbieguyforlinu | hi guys and gals |
| 19:07.44 | *** join/#openmoko jamewill (n=jamewill@79-69-252-130.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 19:07.48 | AciD | edistar > you mean desactivating the pin verification in another phone ? |
| 19:07.49 | kelvie_work | cjb: it seems pretty tough to fix via software (as mentioned a bit earlier) |
| 19:08.00 | edistar | AciD: yes |
| 19:08.02 | cjb | yes, hence "possibly can". |
| 19:08.16 | sontek | is there a way to hit 'up' in the terminal, so I can repeat a command? |
| 19:08.26 | kelvie_work | but since mine isn't here yet (still at the airport), I can just refuse the package and cancel |
| 19:08.27 | kelvie_work | I'd assume |
| 19:08.47 | AciD | edistar > that would mean the sim card keeps that "don't verify my pin" information on it, hum, weird |
| 19:08.53 | newbieguyforlinu | hello guys |
| 19:09.02 | newbieguyforlinu | I'm newbie for this mokoopen |
| 19:09.12 | newbieguyforlinu | sorry openmoko |
| 19:09.21 | edistar | AciD: it does save that information, yes |
| 19:10.20 | trix | i just missed the package from UPS. :( |
| 19:10.27 | eeerival | newbieguyforlinu: Welcome. So are a lot of us. |
| 19:10.39 | newbieguyforlinu | could anyone tell me, where can i get architecture of openmoko? |
| 19:10.40 | eeerival | trix: sucks to be you. |
| 19:11.07 | eeerival | newbieguyforlinu: what do you mean? |
| 19:11.07 | trix | eeerival: no Exception :( |
| 19:11.30 | Maybelline | trix: I'm staring out my front window, trying to prevent just that scenario. |
| 19:11.37 | trix | haha |
| 19:11.40 | trix | that's great |
| 19:11.42 | edistar | newbieguyforlinu: arm4 |
| 19:11.45 | newbieguyforlinu | architecture for openmoko |
| 19:12.33 | newbieguyforlinu | what to give presentation on openmoko? |
| 19:12.53 | newbieguyforlinu | but not getting detail information about openmoko |
| 19:12.55 | Maybelline | trix: Look who just pulled up! :) |
| 19:13.08 | newbieguyforlinu | edistar are u there |
| 19:13.15 | trix | Maybelline: sad eyes |
| 19:13.38 | trix | lucky. |
| 19:13.39 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 19:13.46 | eeerival | newbieguyforlinu: have you looked at the wiki pages? |
| 19:13.56 | edistar | newbieguyforlinu: sorry? |
| 19:14.04 | AciD | edistar > I tried the "gta01" dnrd script with the fresjly compiled dnrd 2.20.3 and got this error : ERROR: Could not chdir to /usr/local/etc/dnrd, No such file or directory |
| 19:14.17 | AciD | edistar > have you already seen that before ? |
| 19:14.32 | edistar | yeah, you have to ./configure, make, make install the source provided |
| 19:14.33 | newbieguyforlinu | yes |
| 19:14.44 | AciD | edistar > I did that already |
| 19:15.00 | edistar | AciD: and that worked without any errors? |
| 19:15.00 | AciD | I jsut compiled and installed it |
| 19:15.02 | mw| | AciD: remember to give ./configure a proper --prefix option |
| 19:15.03 | AciD | yes |
| 19:15.12 | edistar | not sure how I fixed that.. |
| 19:15.32 | *** part/#openmoko ralisi (n=raphael@91-66-238-33-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 19:15.32 | newbieguyforlinu | edistar please help me |
| 19:15.36 | AciD | mw| > which kind of prefix ? /usr/local ? |
| 19:15.48 | edistar | newbieguyforlinu: what exactly do you need to know? |
| 19:16.11 | mw| | AciD: that would depend on where you want it to be installed. Most used is either / /usr or /usr/local |
| 19:16.12 | edistar | AciD: somehow I seem to have that directory |
| 19:16.30 | mw| | /usr/local is the default, as seen above, where it expects to find its config files |
| 19:16.34 | newbieguyforlinu | i need to given presentaion on architecture of openmoko |
| 19:16.42 | edistar | newbieguyforlinu: okey |
| 19:16.50 | edistar | newbieguyforlinu: it is based on an arm processor |
| 19:16.56 | edistar | newbieguyforlinu: but is similar to a pc.. |
| 19:16.57 | mw| | make install probably should have made /usr/local/etc/dnrd and put some config files there |
| 19:17.13 | edistar | newbieguyforlinu: 128mb ram etc, flash memory as hdd, card reader for expansion |
| 19:17.21 | eeerival | language barrier... English isn't his first language. |
| 19:17.36 | doc|work | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:17.39 | doc|work | " |
| 19:17.41 | AciD | making.. |
| 19:17.42 | doc|work | Your package is in the UPS system and has a rescheduled delivery date of 07/16/2008. " |
| 19:17.45 | doc|work | arses! |
| 19:17.48 | doc|work | stabs UPS |
| 19:18.05 | edistar | doc|work: tomorrow? |
| 19:18.09 | doc|work | yeah |
| 19:18.15 | newbieguyforlinu | edistar-> MMI modules is communicating using d-bus right |
| 19:18.23 | edistar | doc|work: I had to use 'date' to find that out ;) |
| 19:18.28 | doc|work | any grounds for ringing ups and bitching and whinging at them? |
| 19:18.39 | doc|work | expedited delivery my arse |
| 19:19.12 | mw| | calling UPS is probably going to speed everything up, or perhaps not :-p |
| 19:19.22 | newbieguyforlinu | edistar |
| 19:19.34 | edistar | newbieguyforlinu: MMI? |
| 19:19.42 | mw| | MMI = man machine interface |
| 19:19.49 | doc|work | ok, UPS are now on my list |
| 19:19.49 | AciD | slaps dnrd installer with userfriendlyness |
| 19:19.55 | edistar | mw|: ah, ok |
| 19:19.57 | newbieguyforlinu | man mechine interface |
| 19:20.05 | *** join/#openmoko gmaxwell (n=NT4TN@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001) |
| 19:20.09 | gmaxwell | Woo.. Freerunner arrived! |
| 19:20.26 | edistar | newbieguyforlinu: no idea, sry |
| 19:20.27 | cjb | *envy* |
| 19:20.27 | doc|work | shakes fist! |
| 19:20.42 | newbieguyforlinu | anyone can help me? |
| 19:20.53 | newbieguyforlinu | can anyone help me? |
| 19:21.00 | malik1972 | help with gps?;-) |
| 19:21.20 | malik1972 | ask |
| 19:21.23 | Tanuva | newbieguyforlinu: dont ask for help, ask ur question. we cant know in advance if we can help you |
| 19:21.32 | eeerival | newbieguyforlinu: What's your native language? |
| 19:21.46 | newbieguyforlinu | not english sorry |
| 19:21.48 | doc|work | I'm really pissed now |
| 19:21.57 | newbieguyforlinu | some local language |
| 19:22.08 | malik1972 | why doc|work |
| 19:22.13 | doc|work | because UPS suck |
| 19:22.30 | doc|work | you spend 125 dollars on expedited delivery and it's late |
| 19:22.44 | Tanuva | loves being in europe and having his fr since >a week :) |
| 19:22.47 | newbieguyforlinu | I'm Q is very simple, mmi module will communicate with other modules ( like lower layers) |
| 19:23.04 | cjb | I wonder if UPS is generally broken at the moment. My FR's location didn't get updated for 3 days, etc. |
| 19:23.04 | eeerival | doc|work: you spent 525 bucks on your freerunner? |
| 19:23.10 | kelvie_work | 10 pack |
| 19:23.16 | newbieguyforlinu | eeerival |
| 19:23.23 | kelvie_work | but I spent close to 500 on mine |
| 19:23.30 | newbieguyforlinu | did u get my q? |
| 19:23.33 | kelvie_work | UPS charges $45 US brokerage fees |
| 19:23.41 | newbieguyforlinu | eeerival |
| 19:23.42 | kelvie_work | + GST + PST in Canada (which adds up to 13% here) |
| 19:23.52 | gmaxwell | and btw. the ~$30 microsd card from amazon.com appears to work fine in the freerunner. |
| 19:24.01 | cjb | gmaxwell: what size is that? |
| 19:24.09 | edistar | gmaxwell: if you don't want gps, right? :P |
| 19:24.09 | gmaxwell | oh sorry! hehe 8gb |
| 19:24.10 | eeerival | newbieguyforlinu: no. I think you are trying to tell people about the openmoko freerunner. Is that correct? |
| 19:24.34 | newbieguyforlinu | about mobile phone stack |
| 19:24.46 | AciD | edistar > you do have a /usr/local//etc/dnrd file ? |
| 19:24.57 | edistar | AciD: yes |
| 19:25.13 | gmaxwell | edistar: Whats this about don't want GPS? does it break gps? (I've had the thing unboxed for about 10 minutes now. |
| 19:25.34 | kelvie_work | gmaxwell: read the last link in the topic |
| 19:25.44 | kelvie_work | they found out what was screwing with GPS.. it's the sd card reader |
| 19:26.16 | rivalarrival | newbieguyforlinu: Is this what you are looking for? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoSoftwareStack |
| 19:26.17 | edistar | gmaxwell: signal gets much weaker whenever there is a sd card inserted |
| 19:26.21 | cjb | gmaxwell: there's some electrical noise from the SD controller's clock hitting the GPS antenna, we think. |
| 19:26.35 | sitwon | from the post on the ML it seems that the SD card only breaks the GPS reception when it's powered on |
| 19:26.48 | rivalarrival | edistar: Oh boy, THAT'S gay. |
| 19:26.53 | cjb | sitwon: which it always is, when inserted. |
| 19:27.02 | gmaxwell | :) okay. |
| 19:27.06 | cjb | rivalarrival: please consider finding a different pejorative. |
| 19:27.07 | *** join/#openmoko JackTheBiscuit (n=JackTheB@78-32-125-173.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 19:27.13 | mjr | cjb, currently, due to a power management bug... |
| 19:27.38 | sitwon | cjb: is it not possible to temporarily power down the slot? |
| 19:27.42 | rivalarrival | cjb, my bad... That's a sack of crap. |
| 19:27.46 | cjb | sitwon: yup, being looked at now |
| 19:27.50 | cjb | rivalarrival: much better :) |
| 19:27.52 | newbieguyforlinu | ya |
| 19:28.07 | cjb | sitwon: hopefully that'll help. |
| 19:28.37 | mmontour | I wonder if it's possible to just change the clock rate, rather than powering it down entirely |
| 19:28.49 | cjb | me too. |
| 19:28.51 | sitwon | cjb: not a real "solution", but I agree, it's better than nothing |
| 19:28.54 | mjr | mmontour, someone said the source seems to imply it's possible |
| 19:28.56 | LionKMP | we have a bluetooth gps antenna for another phone here, do you think that could be used with OM? |
| 19:28.57 | edistar | mmontour: it's being handled by the glamo, and everyone should know how much the glamo can do.. |
| 19:28.58 | newbieguyforlinu | but this design is very complicated to understand |
| 19:29.10 | edistar | LionKMP: of course |
| 19:29.17 | mjr | but yeah, if possible, different sd clocks should be experimented with |
| 19:29.21 | mmontour | ~blame the glamo |
| 19:29.22 | apt | ACTION blames the glamo (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 19:29.33 | AciD | edistar > hum, could you paste the content of your dnrd file somewhere ? |
| 19:29.36 | LionKMP | edistar: is there a driver? I don't even know type, it says "WayFinder" (hehe, what else) |
| 19:29.55 | *** join/#openmoko torero (n=deepsigh@ti0034a380-dhcp0755.bb.online.no) |
| 19:30.05 | rivalarrival | newbieguyforlinu: Yes, it is. Try looking around the wiki. Ask about each part. |
| 19:30.09 | cjb | LionKMP: google for the model and "linux", and if it works on linux in general it will work on the OM. |
| 19:30.11 | newbieguyforlinu | eeerival-> are u running on target or on host system |
| 19:30.30 | rivalarrival | newbieguyforlinu: I am eeerival. |
| 19:30.31 | LionKMP | cjb: ok thanks (well, if I can find the type, but I'll try :) ) |
| 19:30.32 | sitwon | If SD card interferes w/ GPS it would make it difficult to use both concurrently, which might be a requirement for some applications |
| 19:30.36 | trix | so much for having almanac data *on* the SD card |
| 19:30.40 | newbieguyforlinu | ok |
| 19:30.44 | cjb | trix: haha |
| 19:31.03 | mmontour | LionKMP: Bluetooth has a general "rfcomm" serial-port driver that will probably work - just set that up and then tell gpsd (or whatever) to read from that device instead of /dev/ttySAC1 |
| 19:31.03 | newbieguyforlinu | which one your are using as target? |
| 19:31.34 | rivalarrival | newbieguyforlinu: I don't understand what you are asking. My phone hasn't been delivered yet. |
| 19:31.42 | mjr | trix, that's silly, it doesn't take long to read them from there |
| 19:32.04 | newbieguyforlinu | ok fine , how ur testing now? |
| 19:32.16 | *** join/#openmoko StealthCP (n=stealthc@user-5444388e.lns2-c10.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 19:32.19 | mjr | sitwon, depends. How much SD I/O you're really doing in how large bursts... |
| 19:32.30 | LionKMP | mmontour: ok, thanks, noted down, will try (when my fr arrives this week :) )! |
| 19:32.43 | rivalarrival | newbieguyforlinu: I am not testing yet. I will start on Thursday. |
| 19:32.47 | mjr | anyway, there was some potential mentioned what with increasing the gps chip voltage, but don't know more about that |
| 19:33.04 | cjb | mjr: I think Andy said it didn't seem to help but he was committing it anyway. |
| 19:33.14 | GoldenHawk | I have a general question for y'all. I want to develop applications for openmoko. I understand there are several distributions? What distributions run what kinds of applications? Is there a method of making applications that is most likely to continue to work in future generations of the OS software? |
| 19:33.25 | *** part/#openmoko reggestraat (n=a@hal.phenome.org) |
| 19:33.40 | newbieguyforlinu | could you please tell me , where can i get this h/w? |
| 19:33.45 | mjr | cjb, the µsd shutdown patch? |
| 19:33.47 | mmontour | doc|work: LOL @ your shipping woes. UPS, pronounced "oops". Considering the quality of their service, it is entirely appropriate that they chose brown as their company colour. |
| 19:33.49 | sitwon | mjr: reading maps from SD, or logging data to SD (such as wardriving), listening to music from the SD while using GPS for navigation.... |
| 19:34.17 | *** join/#openmoko surf2me (n=surfer@unixboard/users/surf2me) |
| 19:34.22 | mjr | that's what buffers are for |
| 19:34.26 | doc|work | mmontour: hahaha |
| 19:34.30 | doc|work | mmontour: yeah :/ |
| 19:34.42 | AciD | hum, dnrd is supposed to be installed on the host right, not the FR ? |
| 19:34.49 | balrog-k1n | GoldenHawk: hard to tell |
| 19:34.50 | newbieguyforlinu | rivalarrival? |
| 19:34.58 | mjr | cjb, in that case it's curious if the glamo really every shuts the sd clock off.. |
| 19:35.08 | balrog-k1n | GoldenHawk: make the unix compatible and possibly design UI with glade |
| 19:35.11 | balrog-k1n | *them |
| 19:35.16 | *** join/#openmoko feis_ (n=feis@p4FDCBE13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:35.18 | rivalarrival | newbieguyforlinu: Try openmoko.com. The US version is sold out. The European version is supposed to ship on the 25th. |
| 19:35.28 | balrog-k1n | i hear glade can later regenerate your UI for various toolkits |
| 19:35.29 | *** join/#openmoko Guilt (n=Karthik@allegro/user/Guilt) |
| 19:35.59 | LionKMP | rivalarrival: 25th? I'll get mine from from Golden Deli sooner I think. (they wrote, at least) |
| 19:36.08 | *** join/#openmoko dieg0s (n=chatzill@123.176.43.43) |
| 19:36.18 | *** join/#openmoko BuzzBlaster (n=chatzill@adsl-155-72-7.btr.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:36.34 | *** join/#openmoko Lo-lan-do (n=roland@mirenboite.placard.fr.eu.org) |
| 19:36.37 | rivalarrival | LionKMP: I could be wrong... that's the schedule I heard, though... |
| 19:36.47 | *** part/#openmoko Lo-lan-do (n=roland@mirenboite.placard.fr.eu.org) |
| 19:37.15 | *** join/#openmoko Lo-lan-do (n=roland@mirenboite.placard.fr.eu.org) |
| 19:37.20 | BuzzBlaster | how does one type the slash character ( / ) with the onscreen keypad? |
| 19:37.21 | Lo-lan-do | (Sorry about that) |
| 19:37.29 | Lo-lan-do | Is it me or is tangogps.org cybersquatted? |
| 19:37.39 | Stroller | BuzzBlaster: copy & paste |
| 19:37.42 | mjr | BuzzBlaster, one doesn't with the 2007.2 default :] |
| 19:37.49 | GoldenHawk | balrog-k1n: If I understand correctly there's a specification being made for the structure of the system and libraries and such for interoperability purposes, that will hopefully allow you to run a number of different compliant UIs.. I wonder if these UIs will require software to be specific to them in some way? |
| 19:37.54 | rivalarrival | Buzzblaster: We went over this earlier... The consensus is that one does not do that with the default keyboard. |
| 19:38.32 | rivalarrival | We got so far as to copy/pasting from another file in vi, but there's no esc key to get back to command mode. |
| 19:38.59 | gmaxwell | "Press START to begin GPS" .. DIE! there is no start! |
| 19:39.21 | SpeedEvil | gmaxwell: no - no. 'There is no try!' |
| 19:39.53 | BuzzBlaster | mjr: is it available on the qtopia stack? |
| 19:40.33 | mjr | *shrug* |
| 19:41.22 | malik1972 | lpotter: ping |
| 19:41.32 | balrog-k1n | GoldenHawk: i don't know if any of these concerns the UI |
| 19:41.46 | cnwdup | Any suggestion how I can identify the number (or the text itself) of the SMS that I just received? I cannot read them, neither with cu (ERROR) nor with openmoko-messages (segfault) nor with libgsmd-tools (segfault). I'd love to read that SMS. \-: |
| 19:41.51 | balrog-k1n | GoldenHawk: i'm pretty sure gtk will almost always be available |
| 19:42.09 | GoldenHawk | balrog-k1n: I'll keep that in mind. Thanks. |
| 19:43.05 | mjr | GoldenHawk, generally X11 will be at the bottom, that should provide the means to run software built with different toolkits |
| 19:43.14 | lpotter | malik1972: pong |
| 19:43.34 | malik1972 | lpotter: what was wrong with the power status? |
| 19:43.54 | lpotter | it didnt work, because it was setup to use apm |
| 19:44.27 | lpotter | apm on the 1973 works fine, but on the freerunner, it doent give any useful battery status info |
| 19:44.42 | malik1972 | lpotter: with other words it showed me a wrong scala |
| 19:44.52 | gmaxwell | Weeee.. and indeed.. the GPS is not working for me with the SD card installed. |
| 19:45.03 | gmaxwell | Is there a way I can try shutting off the sd card from software? |
| 19:45.14 | GoldenHawk | mjr: Okay it's making sense to me now.. like how you can run a gnome program under KDE |
| 19:45.37 | malik1972 | lpotter: i wondered as qtopia was usable for one day and then asking for more juice |
| 19:46.12 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=MarcOCha@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:46.14 | malik1972 | lpotter: here are some suggestions, recalibrations does not intelligent |
| 19:46.47 | malik1972 | lpotter: if i do a mistake, its hard to get a working calibration |
| 19:47.37 | MarcOChapeau | anyone knows if trisoft provides a warranty ? |
| 19:47.41 | lpotter | if it finds the data is too weird it will not write |
| 19:47.54 | doc|work | MarcOChapeau: not on their website? |
| 19:48.17 | MarcOChapeau | doc|work: couldn't find it... |
| 19:48.54 | malik1972 | lpotter: with the version of yesterday: it resumed in about 90 % of suspend cases and also from a call in suspend mode:-) |
| 19:49.12 | malik1972 | lpotter: it wrote it |
| 19:49.44 | lpotter | you want it to wake when a call comes in |
| 19:50.07 | lpotter | hmm.. or are you just reporting that it worked :) |
| 19:50.17 | malik1972 | lpotter: for me it worked |
| 19:50.34 | mmontour | cnwdup: libgsmd-tool will segfault if you just type "sl" - it wants a command like "sl=foo" (but I don't remember what "foo" is) to list SMSs |
| 19:50.40 | lpotter | ya, but then the display gets crud on it |
| 19:50.56 | DaveLab | yeah |
| 19:51.04 | cnwdup | mmontour: Will try that. Thanks for the hint! |
| 19:51.06 | malik1972 | lpotter: the calibration tool should restart if the data is weird |
| 19:51.15 | malik1972 | lpotter: thats correct |
| 19:51.18 | lpotter | malik1972: it does |
| 19:51.23 | mmontour | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_SMS might also have some hints |
| 19:51.29 | lpotter | try doing wonky points |
| 19:52.14 | malik1972 | lpotter: i did it by mistake and was really lost |
| 19:53.08 | malik1972 | lpotter: how can i redefine the hotlinks? |
| 19:53.39 | lpotter | which 'hotlinks'? you can have applications to the speeddial |
| 19:53.59 | malik1972 | lpotter: yes, i mean the speed dial entries |
| 19:54.10 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:54.35 | cnwdup | mmontour: I already tried that. But cu gives ERROR on querying the SMS list. libgmsd-tool now gives cme error: 321. Do you know what that means? |
| 19:54.36 | lpotter | select one of the 'Set..." |
| 19:54.45 | malik1972 | lpotter: is the battery status fixed in todays version? |
| 19:54.52 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 19:55.14 | malik1972 | lpotter: i selected a set, but i want to reselect another on that spot |
| 19:55.18 | mmontour | sorry, I don't know. |
| 19:55.37 | *** part/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=MarcOCha@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:55.42 | stephelton | i have my time set to 14:55 and my time zone set to chicago (-0600) but somehow my clock is saying 9:55 |
| 19:55.42 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@c-75-75-24-184.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 19:56.00 | SpeedEvil | Summertime? |
| 19:56.01 | lpotter | malik1972: hmm.. seems no way to select for options on touchscreen :) |
| 19:56.11 | lpotter | malik1972: will report that one |
| 19:56.29 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@bofh.xelerance.com) |
| 19:56.54 | malik1972 | lpotter: how long the battery survives with qtopia and usual doings |
| 19:57.16 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r2fa673a5ffee 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): |
| 19:57.16 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: tests: add test for ogsmd. NOTE: should later be enhance to feature |
| 19:57.16 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: different other subsystems as well etc. |
| 19:57.16 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r24389c80baf9 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: Improve stability of GetStatus() |
| 19:57.18 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r3ce49ebcbe3e 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): |
| 19:57.20 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: fix some bugs found by adding more testing code: |
| 19:57.22 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: * CallListCalls needs to derive from MiscMediator |
| 19:57.24 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: * [TI CALYPSO] ReleaseAll was not implemented |
| 19:57.26 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r2c3f174e7cf8 10/tests/ogsmd.py: use option parser for tests |
| 19:57.29 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r79540c7cad3d 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): ogsmd: CallCancelTest now works |
| 19:57.38 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * r1c4a036b2484 10/mickeydbus/mdbus: mickeydbus: optionally dump timestamps |
| 19:57.40 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-odeviced * re4e0dd3ae700 10/odeviced/modules/idlenotifier.py: python-ophoned: IdleNotifier: read timeout configuration from file |
| 19:57.44 | *** part/#openmoko pvborza (n=paul@79.119.152.133) |
| 19:58.19 | malik1972 | lpotter: i can check the real status on a terminal |
| 19:58.56 | *** join/#openmoko kennyz (n=kennyz@uralnet.org) |
| 19:59.17 | lpotter | not sure, havent done any testing like that |
| 19:59.57 | malik1972 | lpotter: i am unsatisfied with one day, the most of it in suspend mode |
| 20:01.09 | *** join/#openmoko Sonicadvance1 (n=Sonic@69.92.97.122) |
| 20:02.41 | kd8ikt | carry a backup battery? |
| 20:03.04 | malik1972 | no |
| 20:03.14 | *** join/#openmoko zmoll (n=zack@82-38-58-131.cable.ubr05.brad.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:03.20 | *** join/#openmoko weatherhead (n=danw_ups@cpc1-midd4-0-0-cust684.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:03.22 | kd8ikt | lucky for me i have like three thones that share the same battery |
| 20:04.21 | gmaxwell | hey.. how the @#$#@ do I hide the on screen keyboard? |
| 20:04.31 | rivalarrival | Damnit. My phone has been trapped in illinois for 13 hours now. |
| 20:05.26 | kd8ikt | heh |
| 20:05.34 | AciD | how can you definitively disable the clicking sound when tapping on the screen ? |
| 20:05.41 | SpeedEvil | Earplugs. |
| 20:06.00 | *** join/#openmoko Morge (n=mt@084202123010.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 20:06.11 | cnwdup | Are the SMS indexed from 1 asc? |
| 20:06.27 | spydon | AciD, rename the click soundfile :P |
| 20:07.24 | AciD | spydon > where to ? :o |
| 20:07.34 | Lo-lan-do | AciD: Suspend, resume. That kills it for me. |
| 20:07.56 | malik1972 | is there a problem with power management or does the freerunner runs mor than one day fot others? |
| 20:08.21 | spydon | malik1972, problem with power management |
| 20:08.48 | malik1972 | spydon: not solved, solvable? |
| 20:09.19 | AciD | I just phoned with FR \o/ |
| 20:09.25 | AciD | :> |
| 20:09.30 | kd8ikt | are things like gps and wifi being disabled when not in use? |
| 20:09.39 | cjb | AciD: how was the sound quality for the other person? |
| 20:09.44 | cjb | kd8ikt: yeah |
| 20:09.44 | AciD | bad |
| 20:09.48 | malik1972 | with other words my freerunner hats problems with powermangement and with gps fixing |
| 20:09.49 | AciD | very bad |
| 20:09.50 | cjb | heh |
| 20:09.57 | cjb | AciD: I think maybe alsamixer helps |
| 20:09.57 | AciD | with a lot of noise around |
| 20:09.58 | cjb | I hope |
| 20:09.58 | kd8ikt | and it still gobbles up power? |
| 20:10.00 | AciD | you too ? |
| 20:10.06 | cjb | I don't have my FR yet |
| 20:10.16 | kd8ikt | me either |
| 20:10.23 | kd8ikt | thur/fri |
| 20:10.31 | cjb | yeah |
| 20:10.43 | malik1972 | more problems? up to date i didnt tried wifi and bluetooth |
| 20:10.54 | mwester | malik1972: At present no freerunners can do more than a day without recharging; however that may be fixable by more sophisticated power management software that does not yet exist. |
| 20:10.56 | *** join/#openmoko sandos (n=sandos@me-210-97-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 20:11.20 | malik1972 | mwester: good to know |
| 20:11.39 | kd8ikt | what can be more sophisticated then turning off chips when not in use? |
| 20:11.51 | mwester | slowing the clocks |
| 20:12.03 | malik1972 | mwester: you modified the kernel |
| 20:12.12 | mwester | slightly |
| 20:12.22 | kd8ikt | does the cpu even support freq scaling |
| 20:12.30 | *** join/#openmoko weatherhead (n=danw_ups@cpc1-midd4-0-0-cust684.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:12.32 | malik1972 | i thought that my battery was bricked |
| 20:12.44 | wurp2|work | kd8ikt: Yes, if cesarb will ever finish implementing it |
| 20:12.48 | mwester | Yes the cpu supports freq scaling; the software is incomplete |
| 20:13.02 | kd8ikt | roger that |
| 20:13.14 | DaveLab | heh |
| 20:13.26 | DaveLab | so much cesarb bashing :P |
| 20:13.36 | DaveLab | Give the poor guy a break :) |
| 20:13.37 | wurp2|work | darn it, no fun pestering cesarb for all his hard work if he's not around |
| 20:13.45 | *** join/#openmoko key_ (n=key@nat/ibm/x-e730e2d20ea0c2e7) |
| 20:13.46 | stephelton | is there a node under proc that represents the battery? |
| 20:13.59 | DaveLab | hah |
| 20:14.05 | kd8ikt | is cesarb on of the paid openmoko guys? |
| 20:14.10 | wurp2|work | kd8ikt: nope |
| 20:14.15 | wurp2|work | Just a hard working community sap |
| 20:14.17 | cjb | stephelton: more likely /sys/class |
| 20:14.17 | mwester | There are many interactions, for example not all freqs are possible if one wishes to keep communicating with the GSM. So to run a very slow speeds requires that the GSM be flow controlled and the serial driver be suspended. So we first need to fix suspend/resume, then we can do the rest of the freq scaling |
| 20:14.19 | wurp2|work | I mean dev |
| 20:14.29 | stephelton | cjb you know what that is? |
| 20:14.29 | DaveLab | :P |
| 20:14.40 | cjb | no, because I don't have a FR yet. |
| 20:14.52 | wurp2|work | stephelton: search for check fast charge on the wiki |
| 20:14.59 | stephelton | wurp2|work: thx |
| 20:15.01 | wurp2|work | stephelton: I have a script out there that checks it |
| 20:15.02 | stephelton | cjb: i found some stuff |
| 20:15.12 | wurp2|work | stephelton: welcome |
| 20:16.32 | malik1972 | mwester: i thought fso should solve this "lowlevel" issues |
| 20:16.45 | mwester | no, this is far lower than fso |
| 20:17.06 | malik1972 | on the kernel side |
| 20:17.38 | mwester | fso has no special kernel; all images can use the same kernel |
| 20:17.48 | mwester | That's the good news. |
| 20:18.06 | wurp2|work | malik1972: fso doesn't use pulseaudio, that's why suspend/resume is better for it |
| 20:18.06 | stephelton | wurp2|work: "forcing fast charge mode"? |
| 20:18.20 | wurp2|work | stephelton: That will tell you the file to look at |
| 20:18.23 | wurp2|work | it's not my script |
| 20:18.24 | mwester | The bad news is that to enter these special power-saving modes will require that the user-space applications (FSO) know what the kernel can do, and tell the kernel what they want to happen -- this is not done yet either. |
| 20:18.24 | wurp2|work | sec |
| 20:18.32 | SpeedEvil | Battery life at teh moment is very much a work in progress. Currently suspend is broken, so you get 6-12 hours depending on what's on. The hardware appears capable of doing a week standby, with 20 hours mp3, and 5 hours+ talk time. |
| 20:18.35 | swc|666 | quick question... just got my FR today - is it advisable to do an opkg update &7 opkg upgrade or will it break stuff? 0.o |
| 20:18.41 | swc|666 | && |
| 20:19.03 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@pdpc/supporter/active/bluelightning) |
| 20:19.04 | wurp2|work | stephelton: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script |
| 20:20.14 | Tanuva | swc|666: do it |
| 20:20.23 | wurp2|work | Hey, did I understand right that the way to set fast charge on the 01 doesn't work on the FR? |
| 20:20.40 | wurp2|work | 'cause I see lots more downloads of my fast charge script, and I suspect it isn't doing those people any good |
| 20:20.48 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 20:21.06 | swc|666 | Tanuva, thnx ;) |
| 20:21.36 | malik1972 | wurp2|work: fso has better battery life |
| 20:21.45 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r2cf9d267bc41 10/src/server/phone/telephony/callpolicymanager/cell/ (cellmodemmanager.cpp cellmodemmanager.h): [gsm] Do not immediately fire the next CFUN but give the modem some time... |
| 20:21.45 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r153d3809db78 10/src/server/phone/phonestatusdbusexporter.cpp: [phone] At least emit something on startup |
| 20:21.46 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r2660ab006dd5 10/src/libraries/qtopiaphonemodem/qmodemsmsreader.cpp: [gsm] SMS initialisation fails with my TI calypso |
| 20:22.30 | ab0oo | is there a GUI version of alsa mixer (or some other mixer) for OM2007.2? |
| 20:22.35 | gmaxwell | holy crap.. how the @#$@# do I get the keyboard to go away! die! |
| 20:22.44 | wurp2|work | malik1972: Hmm, didn't know that. I never use FSO w/o suspend/resume |
| 20:22.54 | wurp2|work | malik1972: So it has *much* better battery life for me |
| 20:22.54 | Elleo | swc|666: you can always re-image, but I thought some people had been mentioning problems after an upgrade of the stock image |
| 20:23.06 | swc|666 | :/ |
| 20:23.38 | Elleo | but you'll want to upgrade sooner or later, so you might as well take the plunge and see what happens ;) |
| 20:23.48 | Sargun | How do I get my system to see my CDC ACM device: http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_CDC_ACM |
| 20:23.50 | swc|666 | yep ...trial/error :D |
| 20:23.50 | mmontour | wurp2|work: see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-July/003761.html |
| 20:26.24 | wurp2|work | mmontour: Great, thanks! I assume the values are 100, 500, and 1000? |
| 20:27.07 | wurp2|work | Ainulindale: |
| 20:27.10 | wurp2|work | ~SHR |
| 20:27.11 | apt | i guess shr is Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release |
| 20:27.57 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r7df69fb05363 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [qtopia] Pipe the output of qpe through the "logger" utility |
| 20:27.57 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r0ac52fc2a095 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [qtopia] The app to inform illume about incoming calls was never implemented, remove |
| 20:27.58 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r773100b58d87 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-qtopia-x11.bb: [qtopia] Remove the helpbrowser from the image. Qtopia should disable the Help entry |
| 20:27.58 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r30138c231a78 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to a version with various fixes |
| 20:28.46 | *** join/#openmoko budfive (n=asdf@cpe-76-95-115-142.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 20:28.46 | mmontour | wurp2|work: I don't know, but that sounds right. |
| 20:29.09 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-62-216-215-53.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:29.46 | *** part/#openmoko luroh (n=ishmael@1-1-3-4a.va.gbg.bostream.se) |
| 20:29.51 | sontek | how do you register an icon in the top bar (like bluetooth and battery) |
| 20:29.56 | sontek | is it just doing a GTK applet? |
| 20:30.54 | *** join/#openmoko sitwon (n=adam@static-71-166-233-112.washdc.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:31.02 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rcc3edb75c5c4 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Fix a stupid mistake |
| 20:31.08 | retracile | What does "DESTINATION SCAN" (as opposed to "DEPARTURE SCAN") mean? |
| 20:31.34 | Elleo | sontek: use MokoPanelApplet from moko-panel-applet.h (take a look at openmoko-panel-* for examples) |
| 20:31.57 | GoldenHawk | What's CIA-46 watching? git? |
| 20:32.08 | sontek | Elleo: thanks |
| 20:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko zmoll (n=zack@82-38-58-131.cable.ubr05.brad.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:32.22 | Elleo | no problem |
| 20:32.31 | sontek | Elleo: is it better to switch to qtopia/fso before I start working on apps? |
| 20:33.09 | Elleo | sontek: pass, I'm not terribly clear on the current progression myself |
| 20:33.17 | Elleo | I'd have thought once SHR emerges it won't make much odds |
| 20:33.22 | wurp2|work | sontek: I don't think so |
| 20:33.55 | Elleo | except for the fact that something like the current panel might be replaced by a component from one of the other platforms |
| 20:34.04 | wurp2|work | IMO 2007.2 is the platform to target if you want your apps used soon, and ASU should be able to run 2007.2 (GTK) apps when it is ready to run |
| 20:34.23 | *** join/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@HSI-KBW-091-089-243-119.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 20:34.27 | wurp2|work | Elleo: Yeah, good point... the panel is pretty specific. The panel will be the same between 2007.2 and SHR |
| 20:34.35 | Elleo | ah, cool |
| 20:35.00 | gmaxwell | I see that pulseaudio still gobbles cpu. |
| 20:35.01 | gmaxwell | lame. |
| 20:36.08 | edistar | anyone working actively on SHR? |
| 20:36.23 | wurp2|work | edistar: Most of the people talking on openmoko-cdevel |
| 20:36.35 | edistar | wurp2|work: ok |
| 20:36.38 | *** join/#openmoko Gyb (n=Gyb@f053153093.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:36.55 | *** part/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@85.182.50.182) |
| 20:37.03 | edistar | wurp2|work: #openmoko-devel? |
| 20:37.21 | edistar | that even exists |
| 20:37.24 | smurfy-phil | edistar: #openmoko-cdevel |
| 20:37.29 | edistar | smurfy-phil: thanks |
| 20:40.34 | *** join/#openmoko larry_jr (n=Larry@200.184.118.132) |
| 20:42.19 | *** part/#openmoko blat78 (n=blat78@p5B03C5D7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:45.12 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 20:45.13 | macdonalder | doc|work: LOUISVILLE,KY US 15/07/2008 16:05 DEPARTURE SCAN |
| 20:45.15 | macdonalder | ;) |
| 20:46.01 | swc|666 | FR kicks a$$ btw |
| 20:47.12 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes_ (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 20:48.35 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@83.68.218.53) |
| 20:49.33 | torero | its funny the mailing lists have more traffic than the irc channel Ã= |
| 20:49.40 | torero | :) |
| 20:49.56 | gmaxwell | Cannot find package emacs. |
| 20:49.57 | gmaxwell | :( |
| 20:50.07 | gmaxwell | My phone needs emacs! |
| 20:50.24 | retracile | gmaxwell: what for? It's got an OS already... |
| 20:50.25 | budfive | houw would you operate the shfit, ctrl, and meta? |
| 20:50.27 | trix | why so you can have a bunch of save files left over? :p |
| 20:50.42 | cjb | gmaxwell: if it still isn't around by thursday, I'll build it for you :) |
| 20:50.44 | cjb | needs emacs more. |
| 20:50.49 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r45c722de6701 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [qtopia] Pipe the output of qpe through the "logger" utility |
| 20:50.50 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r3b5f54e4c17b 10/packages/qtopia-phone/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [qtopia] The app to inform illume about incoming calls was never implemented, remove |
| 20:50.51 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r6e896b8cc93e 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-qtopia-x11.bb: [qtopia] Remove the helpbrowser from the image. Qtopia should disable the Help entry |
| 20:50.51 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rab6665bf6322 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to a version with various fixes |
| 20:50.54 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r4adf85030a6e 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Attempt at a stable kernel update. |
| 20:51.35 | gmaxwell | Well I can build it, .. I suppose. I had the build enviroment setup before for my old one. |
| 20:52.09 | budfive | if gnu emacs or xemacs are too bulky, look at qemacs. It's much lighter |
| 20:52.40 | cjb | budfive: he has an 8G microSD :) |
| 20:52.44 | cjb | just about the right size for ejacs |
| 20:52.46 | cjb | emacs |
| 20:53.07 | budfive | ok. i'd love to see it then. |
| 20:53.11 | gmaxwell | hehe. Oh come on.. I learned emacs on a system with far less memory/storage/cpu power than an unadorned GTA01. ;) |
| 20:53.22 | budfive | but really, how would one operate ctrl, shift and meta? |
| 20:53.37 | gmaxwell | budfive, sticky buttons on the on screen keyboard.. |
| 20:53.45 | *** join/#openmoko Lo-lan-do (n=roland@mirenboite.placard.fr.eu.org) |
| 20:53.50 | gmaxwell | or more realistically.. a bluetooth keyboard once those are working again. |
| 20:53.56 | budfive | oh. i see. |
| 20:54.01 | cjb | suggests foot pedals :) |
| 20:54.08 | budfive | ok. i now want xemacs for the FR. :) |
| 20:54.12 | cjb | hm, I should pick out a bluetooth keyboard. |
| 20:55.03 | *** join/#openmoko dfsfdsdfsfdf (n=anders@0x50c73552.adsl-fixed.tele.dk) |
| 20:55.32 | gmaxwell | I haven't gone bluetooth keyboard shopping yet.. I used to have this nice little clicky folding irda keyboard for my zaurus. |
| 20:55.57 | *** join/#openmoko nomeata (i=nobody@nomeata.de) |
| 20:56.16 | *** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net) |
| 20:58.36 | rivalarrival | I had a similar, serial keyboard for my old Jornada. |
| 20:59.02 | rivalarrival | Loved it. I think Stowaway made it... |
| 21:00.01 | gmaxwell | friend of mine has one of these: |
| 21:00.02 | gmaxwell | http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/ |
| 21:00.10 | gmaxwell | I should get him to loan it to me and try it out.. |
| 21:00.13 | donomo | gmaxwell: does it actually work? |
| 21:00.25 | lpotter | the apple bt keyboard is awesome |
| 21:00.37 | *** join/#openmoko matsch (n=matsch@host-091-097-056-196.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:00.47 | gmaxwell | the laser keyboard? yea.. it works, or so he says.. but I think his view was that you can't use it without looking (no tactile feedback) so you might as well use an onscreen keyboard. |
| 21:00.57 | rivalarrival | The Koolu website shows a freerunner with that keyboard and a mini-video projector built in. |
| 21:01.01 | gmaxwell | (not tested on openmoko yet, of course) |
| 21:01.03 | cjb | lpotter: it seems big |
| 21:01.41 | rivalarrival | It's vaporware, of course, but maybe not for long... |
| 21:02.01 | cjb | lpotter: do you know if it works with the FR? |
| 21:02.19 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 21:02.31 | gmaxwell | cjb: I thought bluetooth keyboards weren't working at the moment. |
| 21:02.37 | gmaxwell | some xinput issue or something |
| 21:02.43 | lpotter | i can try it. i use it as my main hacking keyboard |
| 21:03.32 | *** join/#openmoko aggtrfrad (n=aggtrfra@CPE001346891e81-CM0018c0d9db72.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:04.01 | gmaxwell | I need to hack a BT keyboard converter dongle into an IBM model-m keyboard. :) .. and carry that around with my FR. |
| 21:04.23 | gmaxwell | one of the late model ones with the nub mouse would be most fantastic. |
| 21:05.11 | rivalarrival | gmaxwell: That would be awesome. You could do all kinds of cool shit with that... |
| 21:05.14 | mmontour | gmaxwell: and one of these for making calls - http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/8928/ |
| 21:05.27 | *** join/#openmoko sandos_ (n=sandos@me-7-97-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 21:05.50 | *** join/#openmoko larry_jr (n=Larry@200.184.118.132) |
| 21:05.56 | gmaxwell | mmontour, there is enough space on the back of a model M to clue on a set of acoustic coupler muffs to hold that thing.. ;) |
| 21:06.12 | rivalarrival | gmaxwell: Call the bluetooth adapter a "Dingle" |
| 21:07.42 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5f8cf.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 21:12.59 | lpotter | cjb: its got full sized keys |
| 21:13.28 | lpotter | mmontour: i actually have that handset :) |
| 21:14.53 | kelvie_work | haha.. that's an awesome handset |
| 21:15.09 | swc|666 | has anyone here in the U.S. having AT&T been able to register the network? |
| 21:15.26 | swc|666 | i get register denied every time |
| 21:15.57 | *** join/#openmoko penguinator (n=penguina@c-68-39-4-202.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:20.00 | swc|666 | registration denied* |
| 21:21.38 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 21:22.42 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 21:23.18 | *** part/#openmoko torero (n=deepsigh@ti0034a380-dhcp0755.bb.online.no) |
| 21:24.13 | rivalarrival | swc|666: several people have mentioned that reseating the sim card usually fixes that problem. |
| 21:24.26 | swc|666 | hmm |
| 21:24.39 | rivalarrival | I can't say for sure, because UPS still has my phone in Illinois. |
| 21:24.43 | swc|666 | i've done that and i have bars on the signal.. |
| 21:24.50 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: opening and closing the SIM socket several times, while swearing works for me. |
| 21:25.35 | swc|666 | lol |
| 21:26.00 | *** join/#openmoko emacsen (n=serge@pool-141-156-47-15.washdc.btas.verizon.net) |
| 21:26.27 | rivalarrival | SpeedEvil: that method has served me well over the years... I usually include death threats, though... |
| 21:28.39 | *** join/#openmoko johngay (n=john@adsl-223-171-179.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:29.29 | emacsen | I aughta try the ASU huh |
| 21:31.31 | ieatlint | check the mailing list, a new post a min ago from joerg saying a software fix is in the works that may solve the gps problem |
| 21:31.54 | SpeedEvil | Work around badly AIUI. |
| 21:32.01 | SpeedEvil | goes to check ML |
| 21:32.16 | LionKMP | guys, I am on qemu. the "networking via pppd" looks ok, but ping says "host unreachable". any ideas? |
| 21:32.36 | LionKMP | local/remote IP was printed ok both sides. |
| 21:33.47 | Xaos | ok...so my FR is at home waiting for me. I guess the first thing I need to do is get the gps testing script and give it a whirl after it charges up? |
| 21:34.08 | Xaos | any other thoughts on initial tests before I start "playing" with it? |
| 21:35.37 | AntonTakk | i have a problem |
| 21:35.56 | AntonTakk | seems if phone=kit starts before gsmd, i can't make/receive calls |
| 21:36.24 | AntonTakk | er |
| 21:36.27 | donomo | a busybox upgrade happened and now 'ps' wont take any arguments |
| 21:36.44 | emacsen | How stable/unstable is ASU compared to the qtopia images? |
| 21:36.44 | retracile | Xaos: No, first thing is to give me directions to your house. ;) |
| 21:36.49 | AntonTakk | if phone-kit starts before the cell network has been registered |
| 21:37.46 | Xaos | retracile: LOL...uh. no |
| 21:37.49 | Xaos | ;-) |
| 21:37.54 | LetoTo | Tracking Number:1Z5VX038DL54105032 [wwwapps.ups.com] |
| 21:37.54 | LetoTo | Exception Reason: POWER OF ATTORNEY DOCUMENTATION IS MISSING AND IS REQUIRED FOR CLEARANCE |
| 21:38.05 | LetoTo | grrrrrrrrrr |
| 21:38.25 | LetoTo | oops. didnt mean to put in tracking number :P |
| 21:38.34 | donomo | heh. powned. |
| 21:38.39 | macdonalder | hijacks |
| 21:38.39 | Xaos | Delivery Date / Time: 15-July-2008 / 1:47 PM |
| 21:38.58 | balrog-k1n | redirects the delivery |
| 21:39.01 | *** join/#openmoko jamewill_ (n=jamewill@79-69-138-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:39.04 | LionKMP | :DDDD |
| 21:39.09 | LetoTo | :P |
| 21:39.14 | *** join/#openmoko peppertarts_ (n=peter@strapp.plus.com) |
| 21:39.21 | Xaos | redirect tracking number 1Z5VX038DL54105032 to retracile's house |
| 21:39.29 | donomo | waits on letoto's porch |
| 21:39.42 | *** join/#openmoko zbowling (n=zbowling@cpe-24-27-70-200.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 21:39.45 | mwester | Clearance, huh? So what country is that which seems to think cell phones are dangerous weapons? China? |
| 21:39.50 | zbowling | yay! i got my freerunner |
| 21:39.53 | zbowling | and dboard |
| 21:40.03 | ieatlint | mwester, it's customs :P |
| 21:40.09 | zbowling | unboxed it and took tons of pics |
| 21:40.25 | donomo | zbowling: you got a debug board? wow. what will you do with it? |
| 21:40.34 | ieatlint | and the US is a country which things cell phones can be dangerous weapons, and restricts their sale to certain countries (eg, north korea) |
| 21:40.53 | zbowling | donomo: kernel hacking... use that jtag to walk though the kernel |
| 21:41.00 | donomo | i put up a couple unboxing photos at http://flickr.com/photos/donpdonp/ |
| 21:41.09 | mwester | Well, the power of free speech is surely disconcerting to some governments |
| 21:41.14 | donomo | zbowling: interesting |
| 21:41.28 | doc|work | donomo: hate you :( |
| 21:41.33 | ieatlint | only we're the ones restricting their export to north korea :P |
| 21:42.01 | mwester | Well, we wouldn't want them to speak to one another, now would we? |
| 21:42.07 | zbowling | works for texas instruments and does this kind of thing a lot :-P want to hack the GSM modem driver for our chipset thats in there to beef it up |
| 21:42.21 | donomo | beef! |
| 21:42.38 | SpeedEvil | zbowling: can you put the GSM source up on the wiki? :) |
| 21:42.40 | mwester | would rather someone make it work before they "beef" it up |
| 21:42.50 | zbowling | hehe.. i wish i had it |
| 21:42.55 | doc|work | is the tip of the stylus neon green? |
| 21:42.57 | zbowling | i work in the education technology division |
| 21:43.09 | AntonTakk | doc|work: yep |
| 21:43.15 | doc|work | hmmm |
| 21:43.17 | doc|work | fugly! |
| 21:43.18 | SpeedEvil | zbowling: though I note the specs for the chip itself have leaked. |
| 21:43.19 | doc|work | :) |
| 21:43.22 | ieatlint | doc|work, yes, it's a bug, they're working on it |
| 21:43.26 | doc|work | ieatlint: haha |
| 21:43.27 | ieatlint | it should be purple |
| 21:43.32 | SpeedEvil | zbowling: but not the software. |
| 21:43.39 | mwester | But the specs for the chip are not that useful, frankly |
| 21:43.44 | donomo | doc|work: the pen contraption is ridiculous |
| 21:43.45 | AntonTakk | ieatlint: there may be a software fix :) |
| 21:44.19 | ieatlint | yeah, the stylus us meh... the laser in it causes a rattling noise when you use it (quite annoying, but the nature of the technology) |
| 21:44.26 | zbowling | SpeedEvil: well not really leaked... the customers can do what they want with them, but we only distribute them to the customers... the ones that are posted on the openness page are old but still mostly correct (but they are from the beta days and have our propitary notices on them) |
| 21:44.29 | doc|work | donomo: ridiculous how? |
| 21:44.29 | mwester | Yeah, just redefine the constant "green" to be "white" and all will be well. |
| 21:44.31 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: it's the battery |
| 21:44.31 | mmontour | ieatlint: the US is a country which thought T-shirts could be dangerous weapons. http://www.cypherspace.org/adam/shirt/ |
| 21:44.51 | donomo | doc|work: its huge. comes with a LASER POINTER. i'll never use it. |
| 21:44.51 | ieatlint | SpeedEvil, you sure? my understanding of lasers is that a piece needs to be loose |
| 21:44.56 | doc|work | I want a t-shirt that reads "I am not a terrorist" in arabic |
| 21:44.57 | SpeedEvil | zbowling: There are no publically available docs I mean. |
| 21:45.04 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: err - no. It's the batteries. |
| 21:45.09 | AntonTakk | SpeedEvil: no, it's the buttons |
| 21:45.13 | ieatlint | SpeedEvil, just verified, took the batteries out, still rattles |
| 21:45.16 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: or it may be the pen slapping around inside. |
| 21:45.18 | AntonTakk | SpeedEvil: hold the buttons - no noise |
| 21:45.29 | mwester | Fill it full of epoxy, no rattles. |
| 21:45.38 | ieatlint | am holding just the upper part, no pen in this section |
| 21:45.44 | doc|work | donomo: hmmm |
| 21:45.58 | ieatlint | but the battery housing is crappy... |
| 21:46.17 | ieatlint | half the time the led/laser won't turn on unless i like hit the pen against something |
| 21:46.31 | SpeedEvil | zbowling: the ones I refer to have 'THIS IS UNDER NDA' all over them, and the product page on the TI website says 'no docs unless you really convince us you're buying loads of them'. |
| 21:46.43 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@83.68.218.53) |
| 21:46.49 | kduboi1 | just unboxed his fr :D |
| 21:46.59 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 21:47.06 | LetoTo | it was because it became a "personal package" |
| 21:47.13 | zbowling | SpeedEvil: we do linux support indirectly.. rather then push our specs out public the minute the tech is out, we wait till a custom wants to use it with Linux (or something open), then we work with them, patch our own version of the stuff and distribute it to them.. when they release its up to them to release the changes, and eventually some some diffs in the community and pushes them back to the vanilla kernel on linus's tree... what |
| 21:47.18 | LetoTo | and no, all you guys can peek, but apparently not change anything :) |
| 21:47.40 | zbowling | SpeedEvil: http://zbowling.com/blog/2008/07/14/farewell-texas-instruments/ |
| 21:48.30 | doc|work | zbowling: why not just give out the specs? |
| 21:48.32 | AntonTakk | kdubois: can you make/receive calls with yours? |
| 21:48.39 | cjb | zbowling: doesn't seem to be loading. |
| 21:48.46 | doc|work | cjb: worked for me |
| 21:48.48 | SpeedEvil | zbowling: it's not a linux thing, I'm talking about the firmware inside the GSM modem, and the specs for its programming - which is quite irrelevant to someone wanting to run it with linux. Unless you are trying to run linux on the phone module itself. |
| 21:49.06 | zbowling | doc|work: ahh the firmware is a different matter.. we don't own all of it... |
| 21:49.15 | kdubois | AntonTakk: im still trying to figure out how to turn it on. where's the getting started guide? |
| 21:49.39 | *** part/#openmoko Xaos (n=read@pool-71-170-53-17.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:49.46 | AntonTakk | kdubois: online - power button is the round thing next to the usb port |
| 21:50.08 | AntonTakk | kdubois: have to hold it in for a few seconds |
| 21:50.12 | LionKMP | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner |
| 21:50.20 | SpeedEvil | zbowling: there have been a number of annoying issues with the firmware in the modem, so being able to hack it would be nice - but understandably very unlikely to happen. |
| 21:50.38 | kdubois | thanks. the bigger problem is getting the battery in :P |
| 21:50.41 | balrog-k1n | SpeedEvil: and the compiler for the firmware seems to be windows only :( |
| 21:50.57 | SpeedEvil | balrog-k1n: how did you come to that conclusion? |
| 21:51.06 | mwester | That's trivial compared to the NDA stuff. |
| 21:51.15 | AntonTakk | any of you know if there is a way to check if the sim card is in properly and able to be read? |
| 21:51.16 | balrog-k1n | SpeedEvil: it's an .exe? :p |
| 21:51.27 | SpeedEvil | balrog-k1n: where did you find the compiler? |
| 21:51.36 | mwester | Just to be able to read the docs on the proprietary "features" (read: bugs) would be so helpful. |
| 21:51.57 | balrog-k1n | SpeedEvil: well, it's not publicly available |
| 21:52.22 | SpeedEvil | balrog-k1n: you have something that takes source code and puts out an object? Or is it just a reflasher? |
| 21:52.28 | kdubois | why is this so hard to open?! |
| 21:52.33 | SpeedEvil | Of course you can't share it. |
| 21:52.34 | SpeedEvil | kdubois: it's not. |
| 21:52.38 | balrog-k1n | although it might, i dunno, in the end it's just ARM |
| 21:52.50 | SpeedEvil | kdubois: put your hand into a claw-shape. |
| 21:53.00 | balrog-k1n | SpeedEvil: i haven't tried to run it |
| 21:53.16 | balrog-k1n | the flasher does run on linux and i've tried running it and it worked |
| 21:53.17 | zbowling | doc|work: it would be too easy for people to copy our design because the spec gives all the information how its design away for the most part.. competators could clone it before we got our first, but we don't mind after the customer buys a few million and ships it to them give the docs we gave them out... the reason being is that we work on chipsets today that probably wont be put in devices for 3 to 4 years constantly.. thats plently |
| 21:53.19 | kdubois | yay, there it goes. haha |
| 21:53.25 | SpeedEvil | place the phone back on the heel of your palm, place your fingernail into the slot on the end, then twist the phone down to pull out of the slot |
| 21:54.24 | doc|work | zbowling: yeah, but for someone like openmoko, that's not exactly ideal :/ And aren't competitors likely to reasonably quickly reverse engineer them anyway? |
| 21:54.34 | spydon | kdubois, make youtube video :P |
| 21:54.40 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: the calypso chipset is almost end-of-life. |
| 21:54.44 | spydon | kdubois, youtube needs more openmoko videos :P |
| 21:54.52 | mmontour | I can accept a closed GSM firmware, but it's a real PITA that I can't field-update my unit to a new version of the firmware after it has been compiled on an official development system. |
| 21:55.03 | SpeedEvil | Dave: you have 5 Freerunners. |
| 21:55.14 | SpeedEvil | Dave: can you juggle them, and youtube it? |
| 21:55.17 | *** join/#openmoko KrisAbsinthe_- (n=Kris3563@cpe-24-210-164-205.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 21:55.20 | doc|work | SpeedEvil: yeah, but it's not just about this one chipset, it's about all of them :/ |
| 21:55.26 | donomo | SpeedEvil: lol |
| 21:55.26 | mmontour | I'd be quite happy if I could download and then install a signed+encrypted blob |
| 21:55.40 | SpeedEvil | mmontour: I wonder if there is no security. |
| 21:55.43 | zbowling | doc|work: but by the time they reverse engineer them, its already 3 to 4 years old, tack on another year to design and get it out and they would of created a 5 year old product... there are companies that do that but they sell ultra cheap chips... |
| 21:55.57 | SpeedEvil | mmontour: hence the reluctance to distribute a flasher. |
| 21:56.13 | doc|work | zbowling: it takes that long? |
| 21:56.14 | zbowling | doc|work: they don't get the spec until our customer releases their first release of it and includes the spec for the open community... |
| 21:56.16 | *** part/#openmoko dfsfdsdfsfdf (n=anders@0x50c73552.adsl-fixed.tele.dk) |
| 21:56.42 | SpeedEvil | el1: no I diddn't. |
| 21:56.44 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 21:56.49 | zbowling | oh yah :-) intel, amd, and nvidia are the only ones turning their design around and shipping them in under 6 months |
| 21:56.59 | zbowling | intel on the pentium side |
| 21:57.09 | doc|work | zbowling: sorry, I meant reverse engineering takes that long? :) |
| 21:57.21 | mmontour | SpeedEvil: that's possible. Still sucks that I'd have to ship my unit to the USA to get the bugs fixed |
| 21:57.45 | zbowling | ooh... no... its getting a custom asic up, developing the firmware, etc.. it doesn't take that long to reverse engineer at all |
| 21:57.48 | stephelton | i get 'ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]' when trying to run wpa_supplicant -ieth0 |
| 21:57.57 | mwester | We make good bugs here, mmontour. |
| 21:57.59 | doc|work | zbowling: ah, yeah, that's what I was thinking |
| 21:58.03 | doc|work | mwester: hah |
| 21:58.23 | zbowling | doc|work: just to copy it and try to steal our business... |
| 21:58.32 | doc|work | yep |
| 21:58.43 | SpeedEvil | And then there is the issue that the best way to do something may well have changed in 5 years. |
| 21:58.53 | doc|work | zbowling: like the use of 2.5g :) |
| 21:59.02 | doc|work | er, sorry, misdirected |
| 21:59.02 | SpeedEvil | So you end up with a poorer product than you might have otherwise got. |
| 21:59.13 | doc|work | SpeedEvil: like the use of 2.5g :) |
| 21:59.17 | zbowling | hehe.. and we make a lot of chips... |
| 21:59.20 | doc|work | or glamo :( |
| 21:59.22 | zbowling | a lot of different versions too |
| 21:59.44 | SpeedEvil | wants some impactron CCD samples. |
| 21:59.58 | SpeedEvil | Those are cool. |
| 22:00.07 | SpeedEvil | And occasionally cooled. |
| 22:00.50 | SpeedEvil | (CCD imager, with integrated solid-state image intensifier) |
| 22:01.00 | doc|work | see, we look at the iphone, reasonably decent hardware, faster proc, faster gsm, and we're not likely to get to that any time soon in any properly open form |
| 22:02.01 | kdubois | wow, the resolution is spectacular :P |
| 22:02.12 | SpeedEvil | kdubois: that it is. |
| 22:02.15 | doc|work | kdubois: :( |
| 22:02.19 | doc|work | shakes fist at ups |
| 22:02.46 | mmontour | doc|work: where is your package now? |
| 22:02.56 | ezekiel-v3 | doc|work: I'm with you, I finally get hands-on come friday |
| 22:03.09 | Tanuva | is there any way to set the fr's clock directly? I have adjusted the timezone but dont get the right time yet.. |
| 22:03.11 | zbowling | yeah.. openmoko has to wait till someone else uses it free first to get them to create the free driver... now if FIC bought our high stuff, then we provide them the docs and they could turn them over to the community but FIC would have to develop with us on it.. we do that with Nokia on the OMAP used in the Nokia 770/N800/N810.... |
| 22:04.36 | stephelton | i just went and paid $25 for a new sim that also doesn't work \= i even took the 'sim cards that do NOT work" list with me... |
| 22:04.44 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 22:05.00 | doc|work | mmontour: I think it's in richmond, but the last van today probably left already |
| 22:05.00 | stephelton | and i can't talk to anyone because their reps are all tied up with apple douchebags |
| 22:05.09 | zbowling | plus TI is not on the Richardson Stallman Free Software bandwagon but the Linus Open Source Bandwagon |
| 22:05.51 | doc|work | zbowling: the way I read it was that the problem wasn't the use, it was that they weren't high enough numbers to even have someone talk to them |
| 22:05.52 | SpeedEvil | I don't think any of us here really care abou tthat. |
| 22:06.09 | SpeedEvil | zbowling: an initial run might be 1K I suspect. |
| 22:06.22 | SpeedEvil | zbowling: so _tiny_ volumes for a cellphone. |
| 22:06.34 | zbowling | yeah |
| 22:06.40 | doc|work | it's a shame they couldn't piggy back on someone else's run |
| 22:06.43 | zbowling | we do a lot of crafty agreements on each sale |
| 22:06.50 | zbowling | some things are higher IP then others |
| 22:07.01 | zbowling | i did talks around TI about it all the time |
| 22:08.00 | SpeedEvil | There is a large chunk of IP in the GSM stack unfortunately. |
| 22:08.44 | SpeedEvil | Not to mention the approvals issue. |
| 22:08.47 | kdubois | hey, look at that, it gets calls |
| 22:09.21 | spydon | crap, if I have a 3g sim, it wont work will it? |
| 22:09.45 | kdubois | mine says 3g on it and it works |
| 22:09.46 | cjb | might do. |
| 22:09.53 | *** join/#openmoko netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org) |
| 22:09.54 | trix | stephelton, where is that list at? the sim cards that do not work |
| 22:10.08 | doc|work | spydon: depends, some at&t (scum) cards are having problems |
| 22:10.13 | trix | i was planning on picking up a tmobile sim for $20 this afternoon |
| 22:10.18 | AntonTakk | Tanuva: date -s MMDDHHmm |
| 22:10.28 | stephelton | trix: wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers/ATT |
| 22:10.41 | stephelton | trix: s/ATT/Tmobile |
| 22:10.51 | SpeedEvil | #!/bin/ash |
| 22:10.51 | SpeedEvil | date `ssh 192.168.0.200 date "+%m%d%H%M%Y.%S"` |
| 22:11.00 | SpeedEvil | If you're feeling silly. |
| 22:11.06 | spydon | doc|home, well luckily we dont have at&t in Sweden :P |
| 22:11.14 | AntonTakk | Tanuva: also had to reboot the fr to make tz setting take effect |
| 22:11.28 | mmontour | See if there is a voltage rating on the SIM. Some reports (not confirmed yet AFAIK) suggest that there's a problem with 1.8V while 2.9V ones are OK. |
| 22:12.02 | trix | stephelton, thanks. |
| 22:12.07 | doc|work | spydon: heh, yeah, you just have the government make it law and then there's wiretapping :( |
| 22:12.35 | *** join/#openmoko larry_jr (n=Larry@200.184.118.132) |
| 22:13.29 | spydon | doc|home, I've been on 5 demonstrations against that f*ing law, apperantly it is going to be used in a bigger surveilance network that NSA has. Sweden never stands up against USA :( |
| 22:13.30 | *** join/#openmoko KrisAbsinthe_ (n=Kris3563@cpe-24-210-164-205.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 22:13.43 | doc|work | spydon: ugh |
| 22:14.26 | spydon | doc|work, Swedens government should be more like thepiratebay :P |
| 22:14.40 | doc|work | spydon: :/ |
| 22:15.35 | *** join/#openmoko KrisAbsinthe (n=Kris3563@cpe-24-210-164-205.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 22:15.55 | *** join/#openmoko awesomo4k (n=arhodes@c-76-26-146-101.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 22:15.55 | sontek | is there documentation somewhere on how to flash the phone? |
| 22:16.01 | sontek | I want to tryout the qtopia stack |
| 22:16.05 | awesomo4k | yay i got my new one ! |
| 22:16.05 | *** join/#openmoko a_thing (n=notroot@c-98-193-50-46.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:16.10 | cjb | sontek: of course, on the wiki |
| 22:16.10 | sontek | and can I convert back if I don't like it? |
| 22:16.19 | spydon | awesomo4k, make youtube video ;) |
| 22:16.25 | sitwon | spydon: I think the Pirate Bay is actually a political party in Sweden |
| 22:16.45 | awesomo4k | hey is gtav2 arm5 ? |
| 22:16.49 | spydon | sitwon, nope we have the pirate party |
| 22:16.51 | mjr | sitwon, no, they're separate |
| 22:16.56 | sontek | cjb: do you know what page has the details? |
| 22:17.01 | mjr | awesomo4k, no, 4 |
| 22:17.05 | spydon | sitwon, the pirate party is a lot more serius :P |
| 22:17.07 | awesomo4k | ahhh ... so still no android then |
| 22:17.08 | sitwon | was dissapointingly misinformed |
| 22:17.28 | awesomo4k | google has not released the source for their java-like vm have they ? |
| 22:17.35 | cjb | sontek: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner |
| 22:17.45 | mjr | awesomo4k, afaik no, and yeah, no android 'till it can be ported |
| 22:17.51 | sitwon | spydon: that's cool too, as long as they drink lots of rum |
| 22:18.01 | awesomo4k | damn them and their non-open-source ways ! |
| 22:18.09 | sitwon | suggests Barbancourt Rhum |
| 22:18.31 | spydon | sitwon, ^^ hehe we had a banana republic party a week ago :P |
| 22:19.04 | johngay | So what's the latest on the GPS/SD problem? |
| 22:19.39 | cjb | johngay: software fix hopefully forthcoming. |
| 22:19.48 | sitwon | Avast ye knaves, vote Aye on this here Bill or I'll cut ye liver out with me cutlass! Arrrr |
| 22:19.55 | cjb | there's a patch in andy's git for turning off the SD clock between transfers. |
| 22:19.58 | mjr | software workaround rather, but hopefully effective |
| 22:20.01 | cjb | it could use help with people testing it. |
| 22:20.05 | cjb | sorry, yes, workaround. |
| 22:20.11 | mjr | hardware fix in testing |
| 22:20.25 | awesomo4k | how to tell if i have the problem? |
| 22:20.32 | mjr | no info on practicalities if you want the hw fix |
| 22:20.57 | sitwon | awesomo4k: if you get better GPS reception with the SD card removed than with it inserted you have the problem |
| 22:21.08 | sontek | so how do I type / on the keyboard? |
| 22:21.14 | awesomo4k | ahh.. k. thx |
| 22:21.39 | *** join/#openmoko u_l-lap (n=clinton@cpe-071-065-238-103.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:22.00 | johngay | So it might be a good thing I didn't have the money to jump on the first batch? |
| 22:22.07 | *** join/#openmoko crib- (n=chris@port-195-158-167-6.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 22:22.42 | sitwon | sontek: you need to modfiy the /etc/multitap-pad/im-multipress.conf to include that character for multiple presses of the 1 key |
| 22:22.53 | sitwon | or switch to the matchbox keyboard |
| 22:23.10 | sontek | sitwon: ok, so is there a way to do that via my computer then? |
| 22:23.20 | sontek | sitwon: i'm just on the openmoko itself right now |
| 22:23.43 | awesomo4k | how do you switch to the horizontal display |
| 22:24.08 | nomeata | awesomo4k: press the AUX button and select âSwap Orientationâ |
| 22:24.20 | nomeata | awesomo4k: but then the touch pad does not work reliable, at least here |
| 22:25.15 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=kdean06@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 22:25.52 | sitwon | sontek: yea, follow the instuction on the Wiki for USB networking (in the Getting Started page) and then ssh into your FR and use vi to edit the file |
| 22:26.25 | awesomo4k | is there an encrypted voice project in the works? |
| 22:26.41 | SpeedEvil | Not stock. |
| 22:26.42 | sitwon | awesomo4k: encrypted how? |
| 22:27.03 | SpeedEvil | You can't analog encrypt voice - due to the GSM codec. |
| 22:27.14 | roh | gnha... |
| 22:27.21 | SpeedEvil | And GPRS is too slow for most uses. |
| 22:27.28 | awesomo4k | that sounds like a challenge :) |
| 22:27.37 | roh | jfyi: password reset on the docs.openmoko.org trac is somehow broken. i noted it on the startpage there. |
| 22:27.39 | SpeedEvil | Wifi or bluetooth would work. As would CSD. |
| 22:27.41 | zash | isnt gsm encrypted betwen the phone and towers? crappy encryption thou |
| 22:27.47 | mjr | zash, yes and yes |
| 22:27.52 | SpeedEvil | zash: that's not the problem |
| 22:27.58 | sitwon | SpeedEvil: I've read that even encrypted Skype calls can be decrypted with statistical analisys (packet size, frequency, etc) |
| 22:28.18 | SpeedEvil | Detected no. |
| 22:28.20 | roh | i am on it, but please do not 'just add a new account' for now. need a bit to sort it out. |
| 22:28.25 | SpeedEvil | Detected yes. Decrypted no. |
| 22:28.37 | mjr | but anyway, yes, CSD for encrypted neo-neo calls is the way to go, if you're stuck with doing it over GSM (and not with wifi etc) |
| 22:28.43 | cjb | wouldn't you need the GSM firmware to do that? |
| 22:28.44 | awesomo4k | traffic analysis can reveal the endpoints which are then subject to "other means" of intercept. |
| 22:28.57 | SpeedEvil | cjb: no - even with replaced firmware you can't. |
| 22:29.00 | awesomo4k | reference the german govt. use of trojans to get skype |
| 22:29.25 | SpeedEvil | cjb: you've still got the two uncontrolled codecs on the phone company side - at least 2, maybe more. |
| 22:29.34 | awesomo4k | but i digress - SpeedEvil .. you got a link on why gsm codec prevents crypto for voice |
| 22:29.40 | stephelton | i get 'ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]' when trying to run wpa_supplicant... anyone seen this before? |
| 22:29.43 | kdubois | does the fr have a text editor by default? |
| 22:29.46 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: to boil it down. |
| 22:29.58 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@82.113.106.16) |
| 22:30.03 | sitwon | some researchers were able to reconstruct encrypted skype conversations with surpising degree of accuracy using statistical analisys of sniffed traffic |
| 22:30.08 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: the GSM codec throws away anything that's not voice like. This is why it sucks so much for music - for example. |
| 22:30.26 | sitwon | is trying to find link |
| 22:30.34 | mjr | sitwon, was that the variable bitrate encoding thing? |
| 22:30.48 | awesomo4k | sitwon: interesting! |
| 22:30.49 | *** join/#openmoko jjcv (n=john@ip-118-90-8-15.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 22:30.52 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: It then processes the otuput data in such ways that small bit-errors make little audio difference. |
| 22:30.53 | mjr | (yeah, turns out variable bitrate encoding isn't very hot for encrypted conversations) |
| 22:31.02 | johngay | So a S/W work around or a H/W fix. What seems to be the root cause? |
| 22:31.25 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: the problem is that if you try to feed in a non-voice-like signal, the GSM codec in the phone corrupts it massively. |
| 22:32.03 | awesomo4k | so good crypto on voice should sound just like white noise... and the gsm codec would totally mess that up ? |
| 22:32.15 | sontek | are signature fails on update bad? |
| 22:32.19 | sontek | or normal? |
| 22:32.23 | sontek | Downloading http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/Packages.sig |
| 22:32.26 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: even if you bypass that level, there is still the corruption due to bit-errors on the radio link to the base-station, then the corruption due to decoding those errors to an 'analog (really IDSN)' signal that's sent to the other tower, and then coded again |
| 22:32.28 | sontek | Signature check failed |
| 22:32.40 | sontek | and same is happening for the neo1973 repos |
| 22:32.41 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: basically. There is an awful hack. |
| 22:33.14 | *** part/#openmoko budfive (n=asdf@cpe-76-95-115-142.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 22:33.17 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: namely you drive a vocal-tract synthesiser with digital data. And on the other end put a 'speech' recogniser. |
| 22:33.22 | rivalarrival | SpeedEvil: What about analog encryption methods? Inverted voice? |
| 22:33.25 | balrog-k1n | good crypto for voice would do voice recognition, change it to text, scramble, and read out loud using a voice synthesiser |
| 22:33.30 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: 1300 bits/sec have been gotten that way. |
| 22:33.39 | awesomo4k | ick. |
| 22:33.44 | awesomo4k | you are right that is awful |
| 22:33.59 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: that will be _horribly_ distorted - usually to unaudibility. |
| 22:34.05 | sontek | http://rafb.net/p/5VJm0o98.html |
| 22:34.09 | sontek | looks like it failed to update? |
| 22:34.11 | awesomo4k | so i guess regular data connection over ppp are woefully slow then eh |
| 22:34.14 | awesomo4k | on gsm |
| 22:34.21 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: Not really. |
| 22:34.36 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: GPRS is 5K/second or so. But with 2s delays up to |
| 22:34.37 | rivalarrival | SpeedEvil: Bullshit - they used to do it all the time on old military radios. |
| 22:34.50 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: this is not an old military radio |
| 22:35.08 | stephelton | kdubois: it has vi :) |
| 22:35.11 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: old military radios did not have to talk to completely standard towers, using codecs that they define. |
| 22:35.15 | awesomo4k | i mean using the audio channel on a gsm to dial into a modem |
| 22:35.25 | rivalarrival | SpeedEvil: Yeah, but the method is identical - a audio signal to a codec to a signal processor to another codec. |
| 22:35.27 | mjr | awesomo4k, well you don't do that on gsm |
| 22:35.35 | mjr | you make a cellular switched data call |
| 22:35.40 | awesomo4k | you "don't" but "can you"? |
| 22:35.42 | mjr | and get 9k6/14k4 |
| 22:35.43 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: and CSD is point-point data that you can talk phone-phone on at 9600bps. But... It's often very expensive. |
| 22:35.45 | kdubois | stephelton: i see. must get wifi working... |
| 22:36.06 | Morge | I remember someone at my college made a 4kbit voice codec thingy as a project back in 2001. They did a kind for vocal analyze to make the voice into information about the type of sound instead of the actual sound. Heavily compressed it sounded very flat, but it was very clear as well. To run the voice trough such an analyze process, then randomize and "encrypt" the audio, and then transmit it trough gsm as the resulting "random" vocal |
| 22:36.06 | Morge | sounds, could that be possible? |
| 22:36.06 | stephelton | kdubois: same here, i can't get wifi going |
| 22:36.07 | stephelton | kdubois: what problems are you having? |
| 22:36.14 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: Can't be enabled on some accounts, and has a long training delay AIUI. |
| 22:36.17 | mjr | "often" but not here in Finland for instance :] |
| 22:36.50 | mjr | Morge, 4kbit > 1.3kbit |
| 22:36.51 | Morge | rivalarrival: You are right. They run this encryption over analog lines from countries like malawi. Shure should be possible from a GSM network. |
| 22:36.58 | SpeedEvil | Morge: Any data signal that passes through the GSM codec has to have very similar charachter to speech. |
| 22:37.02 | kdubois | well, for starters, i dont know how to input a '/' character... |
| 22:37.06 | johngay | We had a voice encryption device that encoded the freq band info, then shaped white noise at the other end. Made people sound like donald duck (= |
| 22:37.12 | nomeata | sontek: these errors are normal and no problem |
| 22:37.13 | Morge | mjr: true, but the compression could be even better they mentioned. |
| 22:37.21 | gmaxwell | morge: Sure, you're describing a vocoder based speech codec. There are many in use today. |
| 22:37.37 | Morge | SpeedEvil: This would be voice sounds, just randomized. |
| 22:37.49 | rivalarrival | SpeedEvil: You can do it with any voice-grade channel. It's not all that secure - anyone with a soundcard and a signal processor can manipulate the intercepted data, but it is definitely doable. |
| 22:38.06 | sontek | this is what I get when I try to get wlan going: http://rafb.net/p/XzQOUo21.html |
| 22:38.09 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: the GSM channel is not a 'voice-grade' channel. |
| 22:38.12 | spydon | donomo, what does that car battery on the bike do? :O |
| 22:38.24 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: it's a voice-only channel, by design. |
| 22:38.25 | rivalarrival | SpeedEvil: Sure it is. |
| 22:38.40 | gmaxwell | unfortunately you can't efficiently pack the gsm voice channel with data.. too likely to get transcoded someplace in between. |
| 22:38.44 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: the codecs are explicitly designed to throw non-speech components away. |
| 22:38.48 | stephelton | kdubois: haha yeah you should probably ssh via another machine... |
| 22:39.05 | kdubois | i have no networking though |
| 22:39.13 | Morge | SpeedEvil: That is true, but most international calls goes trough gsm like codecs on satellite links. It still works. |
| 22:39.22 | gmaxwell | you could design a data modulation scheme that survives GSM .. but your bitrates would probably not be impressive.. and who knows what other processing in the middle might kill it. |
| 22:39.46 | SpeedEvil | Morge: international calls are voice. |
| 22:39.55 | donomo | spydon: the bike computer ha sgone through lots of iterations :) |
| 22:40.03 | sontek | iwlist scan shows the wireless network |
| 22:40.06 | sontek | I just need to connect to it |
| 22:40.08 | rivalarrival | SpeedEvil: They can't throw out all that much. |
| 22:40.09 | Morge | SpeedEvil: How long have you been working on an earth station with relevant experience? |
| 22:40.15 | awesomo4k | so do cryptophones in use nowadays just avoid that problem and make encrypted calls data calls? |
| 22:40.28 | stephelton | can i share my laptop's internet connection over the usb? |
| 22:40.42 | mjr | awesomo4k, yes, they do the sane thing and not bicker about it having to be possible over a voice call |
| 22:40.50 | stephelton | kdubois: you can ssh to the FR over usb -- see the "get started" page on the wiki |
| 22:40.56 | awesomo4k | wimps! |
| 22:41.07 | Morge | SpeedEvil: The voice _does_ go trough codecs on _most_ international calls over satellite. I know this for certain, as it was not possible for us to debug the audio quality on those circuits. |
| 22:41.14 | spydon | donomo, hehe :P |
| 22:41.21 | mjr | (to be exact, at least cryptophone.de does that, don't know about everything out there) |
| 22:41.28 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: try sending a random bit of music with several instruments playing at once over GSM. |
| 22:41.37 | roh | awesomo4k cryptophone uses csd data calls. |
| 22:41.42 | gmaxwell | awesomo4k, There is at least one crypto cell phone product that just uses data for the encyphered voice. |
| 22:42.06 | rivalarrival | SpeedEvil: You can't even do that with a telephone. |
| 22:42.06 | SpeedEvil | With one or two instruments, it sort-of-works. |
| 22:42.15 | mw| | depends on your definition of "works" |
| 22:42.17 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: yes, you can. The result is _much_ worse with GSM, even though voice quality may be comparable on a quiet link. |
| 22:42.20 | mjr | also cryptophone.de has their protocol documented, so if you want to do a free implementation to leverage their installed base... |
| 22:42.24 | Morge | SpeedEvil: That is irrelevant for a voice sound like randomized audio stream, if one can get that to work. |
| 22:42.32 | awesomo4k | so is there a frequency sweep test file you could use to determine the parameters for your gsm link at init then get the best method going for data transfer over it ? |
| 22:42.41 | roh | awesomo4k i know their stuff only a bit, but one can look into their source (not free and open source, just for the paranoid, still a closed product) |
| 22:42.45 | gmaxwell | VoIP over cellular data has worked just fine in my experience.. so nothing wrong with that approach. I understand that the PTT functionality some cell providers are now offering is just VoIP over their IP data infrastructure. |
| 22:42.46 | rivalarrival | SpeedEvil: Do you know how voice-inversion works? |
| 22:42.47 | SpeedEvil | Morge: As I said, that technique has been done - and gotten 1300 bits/second. |
| 22:42.55 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: yes. I've even built one. |
| 22:43.02 | roh | awesomo4k i know their stuff only a bit, but one can look into their source (not free and open source, just for the paranoid, still a closed product) |
| 22:43.03 | gmaxwell | rivalarrival, Voice inversion? The answer is "Insecurely" ;) |
| 22:43.09 | roh | igrh |
| 22:43.15 | SpeedEvil | Morge: though you have to design it to the GSM codec. |
| 22:43.16 | rivalarrival | gmaxwell: I said that earlier. |
| 22:43.33 | awesomo4k | roh: cryptophone? |
| 22:43.36 | gmaxwell | rivalarrival, nor will voice inverters typically survive GSM ... ;) |
| 22:43.49 | balrog-k1n | wonders how much the SD was affecting the gsm if it was practically killing gps |
| 22:43.53 | mjr | gmaxwell, yeah PTT you can do over gprs, you'll get the delays, but anyway |
| 22:44.09 | SpeedEvil | gmaxwell: for single instrument pure tones - maybe - but not voice. |
| 22:44.49 | rivalarrival | Alright, you guys keep telling yourselves that. I KNOW it works. |
| 22:44.59 | Morge | SpeedEvil: That could be sufficient. The codec I heard did give a very good quality voice on 4k. They said it was usable with way less, but it becomes impossible to identify the voice as the tone of voice and vocal characteristics disappear. IIRC, they actually wanted this on an airport tower to clean up the voice of the poor norwegian english. |
| 22:45.04 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: have you tried it over GSM? |
| 22:45.25 | rivalarrival | SpeedEvil: YES. |
| 22:45.26 | SpeedEvil | Morge: yes, you can get really bad audio over 1.3K |
| 22:45.35 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: voice inversion? Not over 'similar' codecs. |
| 22:45.36 | awesomo4k | this makes sense. the best crypto is uncompressable... so that would def. be at odds with the gsm codec |
| 22:45.41 | gmaxwell | Oh you can do okay sounding speech in 1.3k with proprietary vocoders. look at MELP. |
| 22:45.56 | SpeedEvil | gmaxwell: yeah - I was meaning open-source. |
| 22:46.07 | awesomo4k | what do things like stu phones use |
| 22:46.12 | SpeedEvil | wishes for nice open-source speech synths and decoders. |
| 22:46.24 | sontek | I'm associated to my ap but in iwconfig it shows: Encryption key:off |
| 22:46.27 | sontek | but i'm using wpa |
| 22:46.35 | gmaxwell | Speex works at 2400 bps but sounds cruddy. It's not targeted at that rate.. (at higher rates Speex is industry leading) |
| 22:46.45 | sontek | and this: wpa_supplicant -ieth0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -B returned failed to set encryption |
| 22:46.49 | Morge | SpeedEvil: Not nessesarily bad, just indistinguishable. Like an old computerized voce generator maybe. Still very easily recognized and understood, but not possible to identify the person in the other end based on voice characteristics. On an encrypted line, you would probably know who you are talking to anyway. |
| 22:47.12 | mjr | on an encrypted line you'd _want_ to know ;] |
| 22:47.12 | gmaxwell | There is some interest from the amateur radio world in funding development for a modern 800-4000 bps speech code (www.codec2.org). |
| 22:47.36 | Morge | mjr: That might be true. |
| 22:47.36 | mjr | 'course, this is all trivially solvable |
| 22:47.42 | gmaxwell | Vocoders are old tech.. there are a lot of examples that good poor quality in 1200-2400 baud that are long since patent expired. |
| 22:48.01 | mjr | recognize voice, send text, synthesize voice according to other party's parameters |
| 22:48.06 | SpeedEvil | Morge: Iw as meaning of open-source/available codecs give poor performance at that. |
| 22:48.08 | mjr | \o/ |
| 22:48.26 | SpeedEvil | mjr: Great! Go code the speech recogniser :) |
| 22:48.37 | Morge | SpeedEvil: I will try to figure out something about that project. brb. |
| 22:48.55 | balrog-k1n | recognize voice, send text, correct grammar, insert humour and eloquency, synthesise |
| 22:48.58 | awesomo4k | oh darn stu phones use propietary crypto |
| 22:49.14 | *** join/#openmoko KaZeR (n=kazer@237.162.95-79.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 22:49.16 | rivalarrival | awesomo4k: Ya think? :-) |
| 22:49.29 | gmaxwell | speedEvil: if you could handle 6kbit/sec, speex will give decent sounding results. |
| 22:49.36 | awesomo4k | actually i wouldn't think |
| 22:50.08 | gmaxwell | At about 6kbit/sec speex sounds roughly as good as full rate GSM. |
| 22:50.14 | awesomo4k | i'd think you'd want to use something very heavily scrutinized by the public |
| 22:50.48 | mjr | encrypted speex on gsm csd will be fine :) |
| 22:51.00 | SpeedEvil | Even really stupidly trivial works a bit higher freq - 3Kbits/sec - sample the derivative of thesignal at 3KHz, output a lowpassed version. |
| 22:51.00 | SpeedEvil | Male voices only. |
| 22:51.13 | johngay | Just get a pair of wind-talkers to encrypt and decrypt your conversation (= |
| 22:51.25 | awesomo4k | cheaper than a data plan |
| 22:52.06 | awesomo4k | does any of this have to do with LPC |
| 22:52.16 | rivalarrival | Here's a question - who are we trying to hide from? |
| 22:52.24 | gmaxwell | awesomo4k, just get a data only plan with unlimited bytes and have a service transcode for you. ;) |
| 22:52.24 | stephelton | anyone else have issues getting wifi going on the install that shipped with the FR? |
| 22:52.29 | johngay | THEM! |
| 22:52.39 | rivalarrival | As in, what level of technology would "THEM!" possess? |
| 22:52.46 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 22:52.50 | gmaxwell | awesomo4k, most waveform coders (like speex) use linear prediction. |
| 22:52.57 | johngay | Infinite! |
| 22:53.06 | mmontour | johngay: http://xkcd.com/257/ |
| 22:53.21 | rivalarrival | Then we need a one-time-pad encoding scheme. |
| 22:53.25 | *** join/#openmoko aggtrfrad (n=aggtrfra@CPE001346891e81-CM0018c0d9db72.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:53.50 | balrog-k1n | lossy infinite compression |
| 22:53.54 | awesomo4k | we need a pair of entangled photons in a pair of phones |
| 22:54.01 | gmaxwell | rivalarrival, a reasonable threat model is to say fuck the threat model and do the best you can reasonable do.. OTP is not reasonable. |
| 22:54.07 | johngay | Seen that, but its great. |
| 22:54.14 | awesomo4k | otp has "key distribution" problems |
| 22:54.55 | johngay | Don't give anyone the key! |
| 22:54.59 | awesomo4k | although a one time shipment of a 100 dollar hard drive filled with random data could encrypt quite a bit of low-bandwidth voice these days |
| 22:55.14 | rivalarrival | gmaxwell: If our encryption scheme doesn't significantly add to the difficulty in intercepting and decoding, there is no point in even doing it. |
| 22:55.35 | gmaxwell | Reasonably a device like openmoko could do strong symmetric key crypto with good public key key establishment.. stuff believed be be generally uncrackable today.. so why not use it, even if you're really only concerned about your kid sister listening in? :) |
| 22:55.56 | awesomo4k | my kid sister can't crack gsm. |
| 22:56.19 | awesomo4k | oh wait. those teenagers with fpgas can though. doh! |
| 22:56.59 | *** join/#openmoko aggtrfrad_ (n=aggtrfra@CPE001346891e81-CM0018c0d9db72.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:57.13 | johngay | Some people are just too paranoid these days. I always try to include the words 'nuclear' 'attack' 'bush' 'washington' in every phone conversation I have. |
| 22:57.29 | rivalarrival | waves to the friendly NSA agents! |
| 22:57.30 | Morge | SpeedEvil: Great title of that project. "Digital Filter". Does not say very much. Was hoping for a codec type hint. http://ask.bibsys.no/ask/action/show?pid=011485051&kid=biblio |
| 22:57.36 | awesomo4k | yeah you're not on any lists |
| 22:57.38 | rivalarrival | NSA: You guys having a good time? |
| 22:58.08 | johngay | Why would my bosses be listening in??? |
| 22:58.24 | johngay | Sorry, former bosses. |
| 22:58.40 | rivalarrival | NSA: Don't you want to go down to the S2B cafeteria for dinner? it's getting late and I know you're getting hungry. |
| 22:58.59 | summatusmentis | you worked for the NSA? doing what(unless you have to kill me after you tell me) |
| 22:59.24 | sontek | anyone have tmobile and get gprs working? i'm trying these: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/T-Mobile_pppd_scripts |
| 22:59.31 | sontek | and its saying connect script failed |
| 22:59.34 | johngay | tech on encryption equipment. |
| 22:59.35 | rivalarrival | summatusmentis: Nothing all that sexy. |
| 22:59.46 | *** join/#openmoko Skorzen (n=Skorzen@89-180-129-14.net.novis.pt) |
| 23:00.01 | sontek | I also tried following http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS |
| 23:00.21 | summatusmentis | johngay: cool... crypto seems interesting to me, but I get the impression I'd be dreadfully bored by it if I actually went into it |
| 23:00.45 | SpeedEvil | Morge: I don't know of the project |
| 23:01.01 | johngay | Yea. That about covers it. The over-heard traffic is much more interesting that the details. |
| 23:01.32 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: even a gig of OTP key for someone gives you a lot of talk-time. |
| 23:01.54 | rivalarrival | Wait - I missed something... Johngay: when did you work there? I left in 2004. |
| 23:02.01 | johngay | I could tell you what actually crashed in Roswell, for instance. |
| 23:02.09 | SpeedEvil | johncylee: was it elvis? |
| 23:02.20 | johngay | 86-96 |
| 23:02.28 | awesomo4k | please don't tell him. we're still not talking about that. |
| 23:02.50 | SpeedEvil | uh hu huh. |
| 23:03.39 | johngay | A proto-type jet fighter. Now who do I kill first? |
| 23:03.45 | rivalarrival | They never told me what crashed in Roswell. :( |
| 23:04.14 | rivalarrival | I was on the SIGINT side, though, not the tech side. |
| 23:05.02 | johngay | They didn't tell me. I saw some traffic just after Clinton was elected. He'd promised to de-classify it to get the wacko vote. |
| 23:05.21 | SpeedEvil | johngay: Steve Jobs? |
| 23:05.27 | SpeedEvil | johngay: The choice isn't easy. |
| 23:05.50 | sontek | It just says: "Connect script failed" when I use the tmobile ppd scripts |
| 23:06.03 | johngay | Actually that info was de-classified a few years ago. |
| 23:06.13 | awesomo4k | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MELPe |
| 23:06.50 | awesomo4k | somehow i don't think there's an open source version of this. |
| 23:06.52 | donomo | nice keyboard to use with the FR http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/15/logitech-cordless-keyboard-for-wii-arrives-at-e3/ |
| 23:08.54 | johngay | So, getting back to my reason for being here: What seems to be the root cause of the GPS problem??? |
| 23:09.11 | SpeedEvil | johncylee: it's not been revealed. |
| 23:09.24 | awesomo4k | is that little round thingy near the sd card an antenna connector? |
| 23:09.29 | awesomo4k | for the gps? |
| 23:09.30 | SpeedEvil | johngay: however, the symptom is feed of the SD clock somehow into some part of the GPS upsetting it. |
| 23:09.36 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: yes |
| 23:09.43 | *** join/#openmoko budfive (n=asdf@cpe-76-95-115-142.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 23:09.54 | awesomo4k | maybe people are bumping it when they put their sd card in |
| 23:10.16 | SpeedEvil | johngay: there is a software hack to turn the SD card off when not in use, but that's not an ideal solution. |
| 23:10.25 | awesomo4k | nm. |
| 23:10.25 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: doesn't seem very likely. |
| 23:10.40 | johngay | So it seems to be the SD clock feedback into the GPS circuit? |
| 23:11.33 | SpeedEvil | johngay: In some form, yes. |
| 23:11.56 | SpeedEvil | johngay: if it's inadequate decoupling, ... hasn't been revealed in public AIUI. |
| 23:12.23 | johngay | So this means that the SD card is on and getting clock even if it's not mounted? |
| 23:12.23 | sontek | has anyon had success getting gprs or wlan working on their freerunner? Should I update the image before I try this? |
| 23:12.26 | sontek | neither are working for me |
| 23:12.47 | ieatlint | sontek, wlan works for me |
| 23:12.56 | sontek | ieatlint: are you using security? |
| 23:13.08 | sontek | ieatlint: ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]: Operation not supported |
| 23:13.11 | sontek | Failed to set encryption. |
| 23:13.11 | ieatlint | gprs has an issue, i think pppd can't get ownership of the tty |
| 23:13.20 | sontek | Thats what I get with wlan |
| 23:13.22 | ieatlint | i'm using wpa/tkip |
| 23:13.39 | SpeedEvil | johngay: yes |
| 23:13.51 | SpeedEvil | johngay: It shouldn't have been - but the glamo was still clocking it. |
| 23:13.59 | *** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:14.03 | Dave | Greetings |
| 23:14.06 | ieatlint | sontek, did you follow http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan ? |
| 23:14.18 | sontek | ieatlint: yeah, thats how i'm getting the error |
| 23:14.25 | sontek | wpa_supplicant -ieth0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf -B |
| 23:14.30 | *** join/#openmoko emacsen (n=serge@pool-141-156-47-15.washdc.btas.verizon.net) |
| 23:14.32 | sontek | I run that command and get the errors I posted above |
| 23:14.34 | ieatlint | does that include the "ctrl_interface=/var/run/wpa_supplicant |
| 23:14.34 | ieatlint | " at the top? |
| 23:14.41 | johngay | So, does turning the SD card off gain any battery life gain? |
| 23:14.45 | *** join/#openmoko zenbalrog (n=johnnyc@adsl-71-153-49-191.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:15.18 | emacsen | if I want to use ASU, what's the kernel I should be using? |
| 23:15.27 | sontek | iwlist scan finds the network |
| 23:15.28 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009026237.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 23:15.39 | sontek | its just my wpa_supplicant can't set the key for some reason |
| 23:15.50 | awesomo4k | any idea how to get the full size onscreen keyboard? |
| 23:16.09 | *** join/#openmoko zbowling (n=zbowling@cpe-24-27-70-200.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 23:16.13 | Elleo | awesomo4k: http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Complete_QWERTY_Keyboard_On_The_Freerunner |
| 23:16.22 | awesomo4k | thx! |
| 23:16.27 | Elleo | no problem |
| 23:16.50 | *** part/#openmoko budfive (n=asdf@cpe-76-95-115-142.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 23:18.14 | ieatlint | sontek, remove the -B |
| 23:18.25 | ieatlint | see what it says |
| 23:19.15 | sontek | ieatlint: http://rafb.net/p/4LBvkI62.html |
| 23:19.15 | ieatlint | if it gives you timeout errors, open a new ssh session and type "iwconfig eth0 essid "youressid"" (enclose your essid in ") ... i'll bet you a coke that'll fix it |
| 23:19.31 | sontek | yeah, its giving timeouts |
| 23:19.40 | johngay | So it looks like there might be yet another hardware rev. soon? |
| 23:19.43 | ieatlint | leave wpa_supplicant running while you do that |
| 23:20.28 | sontek | ieatlint: so don't re-run wpa_supplicant? |
| 23:20.40 | ieatlint | yeah, just keep wpa_supplicant running |
| 23:20.46 | ieatlint | with the timeout errors and all |
| 23:20.52 | sontek | ieatlint: that didn't fix it, its associated, but it doesn't have the key set |
| 23:20.55 | sontek | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:21.03 | ieatlint | it will say that, ignore that |
| 23:21.07 | sontek | and I can't get dhcp from it |
| 23:21.15 | ieatlint | paste what it says now again |
| 23:21.29 | sontek | ieatlint: paste what? |
| 23:21.46 | ieatlint | is wpa_supplicant still timing out? |
| 23:23.14 | Dave | hisses |
| 23:23.36 | sontek | ieatlint: yeah, its still timeing out |
| 23:23.57 | ieatlint | hmmm, let me try something... |
| 23:24.04 | ieatlint | turn your head to right and cough |
| 23:24.50 | sontek | http://rafb.net/p/strVX886.html |
| 23:24.53 | sontek | thats my conf for it |
| 23:24.57 | ieatlint | are you using the 2007.2 image that came with the phone? |
| 23:25.24 | ieatlint | yeah, that's a weak password :P |
| 23:25.34 | sontek | ieatlint: yeah |
| 23:25.37 | ieatlint | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan |
| 23:25.43 | ieatlint | note that top of the example conf file |
| 23:25.57 | ieatlint | there are 3 lines, you need those lines |
| 23:26.04 | sontek | ieatlint: yeah, I have those too, sorry, missed the copy |
| 23:26.16 | sontek | eapol and ap_scan |
| 23:26.20 | sontek | and ctrl_interface |
| 23:26.37 | sontek | do you know if there is a way to pull a config from network manager in gnome? |
| 23:26.41 | ieatlint | that was a yes to running the image that came with the phone? |
| 23:26.43 | sontek | i'm connected to the wireless with my laptop |
| 23:26.48 | sontek | ieatlint: yeah |
| 23:26.52 | sontek | ieatlint: should I try updating? |
| 23:26.54 | ieatlint | perhaps that's the issue |
| 23:27.04 | ieatlint | i never even tried on the april 2007.2 |
| 23:27.10 | *** join/#openmoko aggtrfrad_ (n=aggtrfra@CPE001346891e81-CM0018c0d9db72.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:27.19 | ieatlint | wifi works perfectly fine on the asu, 2007.2 daily builds and qtopia |
| 23:27.23 | sontek | ieatlint: whats the best one to run? |
| 23:27.30 | sontek | asu is the qtopia stuff? |
| 23:27.43 | ieatlint | i've no answer to what the best is |
| 23:28.21 | ieatlint | qtopia has the best text input methods, and the most complete feeling UI, but there is no gtk support (so no browser, no gps apps, etc) |
| 23:28.43 | ieatlint | asu has the most features, including parts of qtopia's UI, but it's the least stable |
| 23:29.07 | sontek | asu is the stack that comes with the phone then? |
| 23:29.12 | ieatlint | nope |
| 23:29.16 | ieatlint | 2007.2 comes with the phone |
| 23:29.22 | ieatlint | but a release from april |
| 23:29.23 | mwester | confused yet? |
| 23:29.27 | ieatlint | like april 28 or something |
| 23:29.30 | *** join/#openmoko sudi (n=Sudi@g224155158.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:29.37 | ieatlint | there are daily builds -- the most recent of which 2007.2 |
| 23:30.05 | *** join/#openmoko zathras_laptop (n=david@202.54.106.66) |
| 23:30.17 | ieatlint | it's relatively stable, has gtk support... if you're looking for features and stability, it may be the best compromise, but it will be far from perfect |
| 23:30.38 | sontek | I don't need stability, i'm looking for being able to use my browser and wireless |
| 23:30.40 | mwester | And the application of some config files and a new kernel (moko.mwester.net) make the 2007.2 image work reasonably well, compared to the others. |
| 23:30.43 | sontek | everything outside that I really don't care about |
| 23:31.00 | *** part/#openmoko sudi (n=Sudi@g224155158.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:31.01 | mwester | Ah, dunno that there are any images with a usable browser |
| 23:31.03 | *** join/#openmoko billk (n=upirc@203.59.139.8) |
| 23:31.16 | ieatlint | minimo isn't bad actually |
| 23:31.18 | zathras_laptop | i've just got qemu running latest images...how do i "click" the buttons in qemu? |
| 23:31.28 | ieatlint | it's far from perfect, but you can load webpages and the like |
| 23:31.39 | johngay | puts on his flame retardant suit |
| 23:32.01 | johngay | I can't wait to see what nVidia's new SoC has to offer. |
| 23:32.33 | ieatlint | i need to get a cross-compiling environment setup... i'm just so lazy :( |
| 23:32.41 | ieatlint | but i really want to get bluez alsa support in |
| 23:32.42 | mwester | suspects the first thing it will offer will be a herd of Lawyers and an NDA that weighs more than a small automobile. |
| 23:34.03 | johngay | Well, nVidia does offer the best accellerated 3D support. |
| 23:34.13 | ieatlint | what's a good non-pastry dessert that can be made at home? |
| 23:34.34 | sontek | so when i'm flashing, I boot into the nor menu, and choose usb console? |
| 23:34.43 | *** part/#openmoko billk (n=upirc@203.59.139.8) |
| 23:34.49 | ieatlint | sontek, no |
| 23:34.55 | ieatlint | boot into the menu |
| 23:35.03 | ieatlint | then with the usb plugged in, run dfu-util |
| 23:35.19 | ieatlint | note that there is a timeout, and the phone will turn itself off if there is no activity |
| 23:35.53 | sontek | ok |
| 23:35.58 | sontek | and what image is the ASU one? |
| 23:36.01 | sontek | i'll try him first |
| 23:36.17 | ieatlint | if it says qtopia-x11 in the filename, it's asu |
| 23:36.53 | sontek | ok, but asu is the one that supports gtk also, its not qtopia by itself? |
| 23:37.21 | ieatlint | 2007.2 and asu support gtk |
| 23:37.26 | ieatlint | qtopia image does not |
| 23:37.31 | *** join/#openmoko chillywilly (n=danielb@rrcs-67-53-13-48.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:37.36 | *** join/#openmoko billk (n=upirc@203.59.139.8) |
| 23:37.38 | ieatlint | asu has parts of qtopia in it (like its sms app) |
| 23:37.38 | chillywilly | has his openmoko freerunner |
| 23:37.43 | sontek | Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080715-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 23:37.46 | sontek | i'm grabbing that one |
| 23:37.53 | ieatlint | that would be the asu |
| 23:37.58 | edistar | sontek: qtopia can't support gtk cause it doesn't use x11 |
| 23:38.07 | Sargun | How do you setup GPRS |
| 23:38.08 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@78.13.143.196) |
| 23:38.10 | *** join/#openmoko tunys (n=tuna@unaffiliated/t00na) |
| 23:38.15 | *** part/#openmoko billk (n=upirc@203.59.139.8) |
| 23:38.21 | sontek | Sargun: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner |
| 23:38.29 | sontek | Sargun: it has a link there, but I couldn't get it working |
| 23:38.43 | sontek | ieatlint: what kernel is best with it? just latest release? |
| 23:39.28 | sontek | I don't see any kernels in http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/ |
| 23:39.38 | edistar | sontek: uImage* |
| 23:39.54 | ieatlint | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080715/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin |
| 23:40.01 | sontek | thanks |
| 23:40.33 | ieatlint | i love projects where one has to memorise mass amounts of information |
| 23:40.41 | donomo | lol |
| 23:41.20 | Ghiottone | hi all |
| 23:41.27 | johngay | Isn't that what attracted you to Linux in the first place> |
| 23:41.51 | cesarb | sees his Konversation flashing in the corner |
| 23:41.53 | sontek | hmm, for some reason dfu-util thinks I have 2 devices plugged in |
| 23:41.56 | sontek | Found Runtime: [0x413c:0x8103] devnum=0, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="UNDEFINED" |
| 23:41.59 | sontek | Found Runtime: [0x1d50:0x5119] devnum=0, cfg=0, intf=2, alt=0, name="UNDEFINED" |
| 23:42.00 | cesarb | Don't worry, I also want that code finished ;-) |
| 23:42.21 | sontek | should I just pick a random one? |
| 23:42.53 | ieatlint | yeah, dfu-util did that to me too... was detecting my bluetooth dongle |
| 23:42.59 | Ghiottone | I have just updated the google custom search engine for openmoko. Now you can add it to firefox search enginges. URL is http://aiurlano.netsons.org/OpenMoko/ |
| 23:43.15 | ieatlint | you can use lsusb to find which one is really yours, and then specify the device to dfu-util |
| 23:43.47 | Ghiottone | sontek, dfu-util has a --list parameter that shows the devices |
| 23:44.22 | Ghiottone | sontek, my neo1973 showed firmware upgrade device or such in the name field |
| 23:45.01 | Ghiottone | sontek, be sure to use dfu-util with root account (su -) |
| 23:46.34 | chillywilly | is so excited |
| 23:46.50 | chillywilly | is attempting to remove the microSD card holder |
| 23:47.29 | sontek | i'm going to try to dual boot tonight :P |
| 23:47.40 | sontek | I have a bunch of sd cards |
| 23:47.44 | *** join/#openmoko Renault (n=Renault@AToulon-151-1-20-184.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:48.16 | ieatlint | chillywilly, uhm, i wouldn't do that |
| 23:48.17 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 23:48.44 | chillywilly | how else would I insert a card then? |
| 23:49.05 | ieatlint | oh, you mean to open the holder |
| 23:49.19 | chillywilly | yea except I am not seeing the tabs the wiki is referencing |
| 23:49.29 | chillywilly | the "latch" |
| 23:49.40 | ieatlint | it swings out |
| 23:49.49 | chillywilly | is following the wiki --> http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner |
| 23:49.51 | ieatlint | the hinge is on the end closest to the edge of the device |
| 23:50.04 | ieatlint | just pull lightly from the middle of the other end |
| 23:50.27 | chillywilly | sure I can see which way they want you to insert it via the picture on the slot holder |
| 23:51.22 | chillywilly | they mention not pulling up on the middle but releasing the latches |
| 23:51.36 | emacsen | so, I want to go from qtopia image to ASU. Do I need another kernel? |
| 23:51.39 | edistar | chillywilly: for the microSD just pull up |
| 23:53.10 | chillywilly | got it ; |
| 23:53.10 | chillywilly | ) |
| 23:54.03 | Dave | :] |
| 23:54.04 | chillywilly | microSD card installed ;P |
| 23:54.12 | Dave | wiki wiki |
| 23:55.20 | *** join/#openmoko batti (n=batti@p5B14C3F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:55.58 | johngay | Kewl, chillywilly, you've just killed GPS (= |
| 23:57.14 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@211.84-49-138.nextgentel.com) |
| 23:58.05 | ieatlint | the wiki really needs to be totally reorganised... |
| 23:59.06 | johngay | Well, get started then (= |
