| 00:00.14 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: no - that's gta01 isn't it? |
| 00:00.26 | Chocky | got it to play movies off a USB key if one was present :o |
| 00:00.31 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: a bit, I've read tge datasheet a few tines |
| 00:00.42 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: 50633 is GTA02, 50606 would be GTA01 indeed |
| 00:01.10 | SpeedEvil | Times. |
| 00:01.23 | rivalarrival | Chocky: Eeew. |
| 00:01.47 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: My question is: can it be programmed to have a battery threshold voltage so that the system doesn't deep-discharge the battery? |
| 00:02.17 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: moot question. |
| 00:02.33 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Moot as in "if it did, it would've been done"? |
| 00:02.39 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: If it can't, you can do it with a 12 hourly wake |
| 00:03.25 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Well yeah. I've just come to wonder why that appears to still be an issue on GTA02 even |
| 00:03.34 | abraxa_ | Seems such a simple thing to do |
| 00:03.57 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: it's just software. |
| 00:04.05 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: it's just that... |
| 00:04.06 | SpeedEvil | Battery life at teh moment is very much a work in progress. Currently suspend is broken, so you get 6-12 hours depending on what's on. The hardware appears capable of doing a week standby, with 20 hours mp3, and 5 hours+ talk time. |
| 00:04.40 | ja | usb power enuf to run everything including both radios? |
| 00:04.54 | SpeedEvil | ja:both radios? |
| 00:04.58 | ja | 802.11g and gsm |
| 00:05.12 | SpeedEvil | ja: they are not on USB |
| 00:05.14 | SpeedEvil | ja: oh |
| 00:05.18 | SpeedEvil | ja: hmm |
| 00:05.29 | abraxa_ | ja: GSM can only be powered by battery |
| 00:05.31 | SpeedEvil | ja: 2W peak plus wifi... |
| 00:05.39 | SpeedEvil | ja: gonna be marginal if it works at all |
| 00:05.41 | SpeedEvil | ja: ah |
| 00:05.45 | SpeedEvil | points at abraxa_ |
| 00:05.53 | ja | yeah wifi is like 50 mw innit. usb power is like 250 ma for entire buss |
| 00:06.04 | SpeedEvil | ja: 500mA - 2.5W |
| 00:06.22 | ja | wants Tegra with open-everything drivers (yeah right, nvidia) |
| 00:06.53 | SpeedEvil | wants 3 axis skyhooks. |
| 00:07.18 | SpeedEvil | They're like accelerometers, but backwards. |
| 00:08.03 | *** join/#openmoko ginge (n=baz@cpc6-ward3-0-0-cust579.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 00:08.58 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Backwards? They *create* accelleration? |
| 00:09.13 | SpeedEvil | yep. |
| 00:09.29 | abraxa_ | ohh neat |
| 00:09.40 | *** join/#openmoko slomo_ (n=slomo@e179160198.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 00:11.53 | Chocky | why ewww? |
| 00:12.29 | *** join/#openmoko sitwon (n=adam@pool-71-178-11-192.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:12.31 | doc|home | they create acceleration? |
| 00:12.36 | doc|home | attaches 4000 to his car |
| 00:12.43 | Chocky | and racing stripes |
| 00:12.51 | rivalarrival | Chocky: Because it's not what I use, ergo, it must be horrible. :-) |
| 00:12.55 | Chocky | I see |
| 00:13.03 | Chocky | it has a 7" screen. that was most of its appeal |
| 00:13.27 | rivalarrival | Yeah, so's my eeepc. And about the same price. :-) |
| 00:13.41 | Chocky | eeepc didn't exist when I bought it :p |
| 00:13.47 | rivalarrival | Good point. |
| 00:13.51 | Chocky | and doesn't dash mount - as such |
| 00:14.06 | rivalarrival | Well, not without a bit of work. |
| 00:14.21 | SpeedEvil | avr: vastly |
| 00:14.23 | rivalarrival | But with a little sticky-tack |
| 00:14.23 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 00:16.17 | Chocky | hm, what will happen with this data plan AT&T sim? |
| 00:19.19 | Chocky | oh dear. I got an SMS message on it. |
| 00:19.24 | Chocky | for a 4th of july party |
| 00:19.50 | *** join/#openmoko hari (n=hklein@i59F700D7.versanet.de) |
| 00:22.00 | SpeedEvil | niklauz: you have to go some on a board where people are discussing sanding down DFN packages to make them lighter. |
| 00:22.01 | SpeedEvil | oops |
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| 00:25.54 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peeps@cpe-67-9-161-48.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 00:27.57 | Tanuva | yay. finally got through 600+ om-community and -devel mails I hadnt read the last days... >.< |
| 00:30.21 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@89.143.43.210) |
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| 00:37.43 | SpeedEvil | The Freerunner - heavier than 500 aeroplanes. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892415#post10134114 |
| 00:38.47 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z48c9.z.pppool.de) |
| 00:40.24 | retracile_ | *refresh* Aww, still in San Pablo |
| 00:43.01 | Tanuva | and we can still simply grab it. damn, hackers are heavy duty men. :D |
| 00:44.48 | *** join/#openmoko polz_ (n=polz@BSN-61-23-228.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
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| 00:59.20 | |Marco| | got a kernel panic I need to post |
| 01:03.39 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-58-170-92-81.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 01:06.28 | sitwon | is there any way to get a browser or terminal in the Qtopia image? |
| 01:16.47 | *** join/#openmoko fgau_ (n=fgau@pD953AB5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:16.50 | sitwon | anyone? |
| 01:17.59 | |Marco| | sorry, don't know |
| 01:18.41 | sitwon | :-/ |
| 01:18.42 | *** part/#openmoko stevenSn (n=ssinger@bas19-toronto12-1177848843.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:19.20 | sitwon | I like the om2007.2 firmware... but it sucks down my battery. the Qtopia firmware is battery-freindly, but has no terminal or browser.... what to do... |
| 01:20.10 | BHSPitLappy | sitwon, write a terminal and browser for qt |
| 01:20.23 | BHSPitLappy | or work on om2007's battery performance |
| 01:21.18 | sitwon | BHSPitLappy: yea, I was hoping I could use the om2007's terminal and browser in Qtopia, but it wouldn't load |
| 01:21.33 | Tanuva | grmpf, didnt think python would crash me that early |
| 01:21.37 | peepsalot | i was at a software conference today, telling a co-worker about the openmoko, the freerunner, and how I plan to use my recently ordered freerunner as an mp3 player. a couple minutes later I win an ipod nano in a raffle that I was automatically entered in. |
| 01:21.54 | *** join/#openmoko dimko (n=dimko@84-203-50-114.mysmart.ie) |
| 01:21.55 | sitwon | BHSPitLappy: I wouldn't know where to start w/ battery issues, but I can try to write a browser/term for QT |
| 01:21.55 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 01:21.59 | dimko | hello guys |
| 01:22.09 | dimko | correct me if i am wrong please |
| 01:22.12 | SpeedEvil | dimko: there may be girls here too. |
| 01:22.15 | SpeedEvil | You're wrong! |
| 01:22.22 | BHSPitLappy | haha |
| 01:22.31 | dimko | SpeedEvil: yeah yea ;) |
| 01:22.35 | dimko | anyway |
| 01:22.36 | Tanuva | but he also wants correction |
| 01:22.48 | SpeedEvil | I think there are people here that do correction. |
| 01:22.49 | peepsalot | since it doesn't work without itunes(ie no linux support), i'm just gonna sell it. they couldn't have picked a worse person to give it to, heh |
| 01:22.51 | dimko | first of all i need to update kernel |
| 01:23.06 | SpeedEvil | dimko: you've got a freerunner? |
| 01:23.12 | dimko | second of all i need to install jeff2 file |
| 01:23.15 | dimko | yes |
| 01:23.43 | dimko | question is: do i have to change kernel all the time with every distribution or any will do? |
| 01:23.53 | Tanuva | dimko: have a look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner |
| 01:23.54 | SpeedEvil | dimko: often |
| 01:24.01 | SpeedEvil | dimko: yeah - that page is good. |
| 01:24.10 | dimko | read it many times |
| 01:24.22 | dimko | i was confused regarding kernel... |
| 01:24.29 | dimko | can i compile mine? |
| 01:24.43 | Tanuva | you dont have to change it eveerytime you flash a new image, but updating it wouldnt be wrong I'd say |
| 01:24.43 | balrog-kun | you should probably use always the latest kernel, no matter what distro |
| 01:24.55 | balrog-kun | dimko: yes you can |
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| 01:26.05 | *** part/#openmoko ginge (n=baz@cpc6-ward3-0-0-cust579.manc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 01:26.22 | peepsalot | just thought it was funny that I would win an ipod nano, the epitome of intentionally crippled functionality that pissed me off about most cellphones and other electronics and led me to openmoko. |
| 01:26.24 | dimko | whats the difference? compiled in modules? |
| 01:26.35 | *** join/#openmoko Sonicadvance (n=Sonic@69.92.97.122) |
| 01:26.59 | dimko | are there modules in the first place? |
| 01:27.15 | dimko | or everything is compiled in? |
| 01:27.42 | dimko | and i might need an advice... |
| 01:28.16 | dimko | which distribution is going to be developed? is there a main distribution? |
| 01:28.34 | sitwon | peepsalot: did you consider Rockbox? |
| 01:28.54 | peepsalot | sitwon, don't think it works on 3rd gen nanos |
| 01:29.04 | z3cka | K |
| 01:29.11 | z3cka | OOPS |
| 01:29.15 | z3cka | srry |
| 01:29.21 | sitwon | peepsalot: so start a port, I'm sure there are a lot of 3rd gen nano owners who could benefit... |
| 01:29.46 | peepsalot | i don't have the patience or time to do such a thing |
| 01:30.10 | SpeedEvil | pays peepsalot a hundred million dollars to do it. |
| 01:30.20 | Chocky | always one clown when you arrange group things. guy was supposed to come this morning, then it was this evening, now it's tomorrow evening |
| 01:30.22 | SpeedEvil | peepsalot: where do you want me to mail your new banknote? |
| 01:30.27 | peepsalot | sitwon, rather spend any free time writing software supporting an open product like the freerunner :-) |
| 01:30.35 | sitwon | peepsalot: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14871.0 |
| 01:31.10 | sitwon | peepsalot: help me convince Neuros to get their N3 back on track ;-) |
| 01:31.44 | Chocky | tessier has his now, however. one more to the cause of the revolution. |
| 01:32.17 | peepsalot | SpeedEvil, hey, where'd you get all those monies! |
| 01:32.52 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Contoxicated (i=kcbnac@flirtini.mintygreen.net) |
| 01:32.59 | SpeedEvil | peepsalot: ebay |
| 01:33.17 | SpeedEvil | peepsalot: Zimbabwe is supporting its economy by ebaying 100 million dollar notes. |
| 01:33.32 | SpeedEvil | (about $.5 equivalent IIRC) |
| 01:33.46 | peepsalot | oh, nice! |
| 01:33.53 | Chocky | +S&H |
| 01:34.08 | Chocky | call now and get 2 |
| 01:34.11 | SpeedEvil | Insane. |
| 01:34.21 | SpeedEvil | At the beginning of the year, one buys a nice house. |
| 01:34.26 | SpeedEvil | At the end, a cabbage. |
| 01:34.34 | Chocky | why did you buy a cabbage? |
| 01:36.42 | SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/100-000-000-ZIMBABWE-BANK-NOTE-UNC-VERY-HARD-TO-OBTAIN_W0QQitemZ130236300387QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130236300387 |
| 01:38.47 | KrisAbsinthe | SpeedEvil: is it nessisary to install a diode on the cathode or just the anode of a solar panel? |
| 01:38.55 | KrisAbsinthe | *cant spell |
| 01:38.57 | SpeedEvil | KrisAbsinthe: only one |
| 01:39.16 | SpeedEvil | KrisAbsinthe: what you doing? |
| 01:39.38 | KrisAbsinthe | finishing the solar mod on my 1973 |
| 01:40.10 | SpeedEvil | Umm... |
| 01:40.14 | SpeedEvil | What are you doing? |
| 01:40.55 | KrisAbsinthe | I added a solar panel to my 1973 and now I need to install a diode, added 2hrs without the diode |
| 01:40.59 | BHSPitLappy | SpeedEvil, sounds pretty obvious to me |
| 01:41.11 | Chocky | looks at his photo collection. dammit, my kid will have nearly every day of his life documented. |
| 01:41.13 | BHSPitLappy | KrisAbsinthe, pics? |
| 01:41.30 | SpeedEvil | BHSPitLappy: sure - but there are many ways that risk screwing the battery. |
| 01:41.42 | BHSPitLappy | Chocky, it's too late, but you should take a picture of him every day and make a cool timelapse |
| 01:41.47 | KrisAbsinthe | my user page on the wiki |
| 01:42.09 | Chocky | oh, I have 4 years' worth |
| 01:42.31 | BHSPitLappy | I mean make him recreate a consistent pose every time |
| 01:42.44 | BHSPitLappy | for science! |
| 01:42.49 | Chocky | there's enough here that I could probably do that |
| 01:42.51 | KrisAbsinthe | I tested the battery not exploding yesterday,several hours in direct sunlight |
| 01:42.57 | Chocky | once every 2-4 weeks |
| 01:43.07 | BHSPitLappy | KrisAbsinthe, okay that's not the picture I meant |
| 01:43.10 | SpeedEvil | KrisAbsinthe: how are you connecting it? |
| 01:43.31 | KrisAbsinthe | shimmed the battery |
| 01:43.45 | SpeedEvil | KrisAbsinthe: what's the maximum output of the panel? |
| 01:44.14 | KrisAbsinthe | 5v 20ma |
| 01:44.27 | SpeedEvil | KrisAbsinthe: that won't do much. |
| 01:44.43 | KrisAbsinthe | cant risk too much |
| 01:45.01 | KrisAbsinthe | ill recheck that ampreage |
| 01:45.11 | SpeedEvil | KrisAbsinthe: even in full sun, that's about enough to stretch battery life by 10-15% when on. |
| 01:45.30 | SpeedEvil | KrisAbsinthe: and when off, it's enough to overcharge the battery possibly. |
| 01:45.57 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 01:46.20 | SpeedEvil | (depending on your GSM firmware version0 |
| 01:46.24 | KrisAbsinthe | I may have to build a realy small charging unit |
| 01:46.57 | KrisAbsinthe | there is a bit of space in the speaker housing |
| 01:47.22 | SpeedEvil | gg 4.2v shunt regulator |
| 01:47.23 | SpeedEvil | oos |
| 01:48.00 | KrisAbsinthe | bbl |
| 01:51.10 | SpeedEvil | KrisAbsinthe: something like http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tlv431a.html - set to 4.22V or so across the battery would make it 100% safe |
| 01:58.01 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa__ (n=abraxa@pD95FE30D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 02:15.13 | Dave | oh yeah |
| 02:15.29 | Dave | apparently the screen and definitely it's protector weren't mean for full sun :P |
| 02:15.38 | Chocky | -' |
| 02:15.49 | goodwill | Dave: what happened? |
| 02:16.39 | wastrel | presumably can't see the display in full sunlight |
| 02:17.05 | Chocky | FR is not compatiable with California |
| 02:17.18 | SpeedEvil | They are - but only for vampires. |
| 02:17.32 | goodwill | I see |
| 02:17.35 | wastrel | and blackulas |
| 02:18.07 | Chocky | hums at ScardeyCat images. |
| 02:19.00 | ieatlint_ | i've got the basis down for a simplistic program that turns on/off wifi and connects to a network |
| 02:19.12 | ieatlint_ | (a pre-defined network) |
| 02:19.21 | peepsalot | wastrel, what about scott bakulas? |
| 02:19.23 | ieatlint_ | basically runs wpa_supplicant, and hopes it sees something |
| 02:19.32 | Chocky | #!/bin/sh; iwconfig ..; ifconfig ... |
| 02:20.32 | Dave | Advice: Don't leave your freerunner in a hot car, during the day :D |
| 02:20.36 | ieatlint_ | eh, not quite that, it's a gui |
| 02:20.47 | nullpuppy | Dave: did teh screen melt? |
| 02:21.07 | Dave | it was! |
| 02:21.14 | Dave | (beginning to) |
| 02:21.19 | nullpuppy | woo! |
| 02:21.22 | sitwon | I would assume it would get really dark but then clear back to normal as it cooled down again |
| 02:21.22 | nullpuppy | how bad is it? |
| 02:21.37 | Dave | the protector on it had already bubbled, shriveled up melted, within an hour |
| 02:21.49 | nullpuppy | damn |
| 02:21.49 | Dave | two hours after that, I came back and was like... rut roh |
| 02:22.03 | SpeedEvil | Do what to roh? |
| 02:22.12 | SpeedEvil | I'm not sure he'd like that. |
| 02:22.18 | nullpuppy | any permenant damage? |
| 02:22.27 | Dave | haha |
| 02:22.28 | Dave | :P |
| 02:22.43 | Dave | Speedevil, you never know... ;) |
| 02:23.02 | wastrel | Dave: so you can read the display in driect sunlight? |
| 02:23.11 | SpeedEvil | wastrel: no |
| 02:23.12 | wastrel | just don't leave it in a hot oven eh. ok |
| 02:23.17 | SpeedEvil | wastrel: or rather - barely |
| 02:23.32 | SpeedEvil | wastrel: if you shield it with your hand, and squint real hard at large print. |
| 02:23.34 | wastrel | ok so you can't read the display in direct sunlight AND you can't leave it in a hot oven? |
| 02:23.51 | wastrel | well what the hell can you do with it? |
| 02:23.53 | wastrel | ;] |
| 02:24.38 | sitwon | wastrel: you also can't take it into the shower or swimming pool (especially not if you've eaten in the past 30min) |
| 02:24.42 | Dave | no |
| 02:24.54 | ieatlint_ | heh, i've yet to manually dial a call on the ASU... and just when i need to, i find out that when i press 7 i get {, 8 gives [, 9 ], 0 } |
| 02:25.03 | Dave | Speedevil, by then you've probably gone blind by the ambient light, or the reflecting light. |
| 02:25.06 | Dave | :p |
| 02:25.28 | *** join/#openmoko spdr_ (n=spdr@CBL217-132-240-21.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 02:29.16 | Chocky | mooh |
| 02:29.39 | Dave | moolah? |
| 02:29.51 | SpeedEvil | Woofe |
| 02:30.00 | Chocky | so, do these ScaredyCat images work on FreeRunner? |
| 02:30.16 | sitwon | Chocky: I was wondering that as well.... but haven't tried 'em yet |
| 02:30.45 | sitwon | in theory, you can't brick a Freerunner by flashing the wrong image.... right? |
| 02:30.55 | Chocky | correct. |
| 02:30.56 | *** join/#openmoko _newbie3 (n=kvirc@dslb-084-063-036-115.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 02:31.13 | ja | the BIOS cant get to a tftp flashable state or soething? |
| 02:31.22 | ja | a la wrt54g etc |
| 02:31.24 | Chocky | uboot. BIOS is an x86 thing |
| 02:31.25 | sitwon | if you don't figure it out, I'll give it a try tomorrow |
| 02:31.55 | sitwon | ja: I don't think you can overwrite the NOR FLASH w/o a dev board |
| 02:39.35 | ieatlint_ | okay, where do i go to submit a bug report for the ASU_ |
| 02:39.36 | ieatlint_ | ? |
| 02:40.08 | ieatlint_ | if connect to a computer via usb, the numbers 7 8 9 0 cannot be used on any input method... but they work perfectly once you take out the usb cable |
| 02:40.39 | Dave | yep ":p |
| 02:40.45 | ieatlint_ | this is known_ |
| 02:40.45 | ieatlint_ | ? |
| 02:41.06 | Dave | Well, I know about it... |
| 02:41.11 | Chocky | heh |
| 02:43.59 | *** join/#openmoko ambroff (n=ambroff@c-71-197-85-109.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 02:49.26 | KrisAbsinthe_ | SpeedEvil: Thanks |
| 02:50.05 | ieatlint_ | wtf... i just registered on docs.openmoko.org and my email verification token was "MUGGaabe" |
| 02:51.36 | ja | Tsvangirai++ |
| 02:52.33 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-181-216.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 02:53.19 | ieatlint_ | indeed |
| 02:53.39 | ieatlint_ | and there are 3 tickets for that issue already up, one dating back 4 months |
| 02:54.10 | Dave | :Phttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Comparison_of_file_systems&oldid=220529437#Features |
| 02:54.11 | ieatlint_ | apparently if you even just plug in the usb wall charger it still does it |
| 02:54.15 | Dave | lawls |
| 02:54.21 | Dave | yeah it's a known issue |
| 02:54.35 | Dave | one of the other images even has a similar issue |
| 02:54.40 | Dave | though they are completely unrelated :P |
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| 03:06.08 | linuxxr | http://joewing.net/programs/jwm/screenshots/jwm-2.0.png |
| 03:06.44 | linuxxr | http://joewing.net/programs/jwm/#description |
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| 03:38.23 | *** join/#openmoko MrShlee (i=MrShlee@202-6-128-43.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 03:42.45 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@75-101-10-86.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 03:56.55 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc-999@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 04:07.01 | *** join/#openmoko clare (n=clare@104.112.96.58.exetel.com.au) |
| 04:07.30 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree (n=laNY@58.33.111.202) |
| 04:11.25 | tessier | plays with his new phone |
| 04:11.32 | tessier | Let's see if we can get it to work with AT&T... |
| 04:20.27 | KrisAbsinthe_ | let me know |
| 04:23.20 | Chocky | moo |
| 04:25.06 | tessier | KrisAbsinthe_: It worked! |
| 04:25.10 | ozzloy | tessier: you got it already?!? |
| 04:25.16 | ozzloy | tessier: what order # are you? |
| 04:25.18 | tessier | KrisAbsinthe_: Took some fooling around and had a couple false starts but I can make and receive phone calls. |
| 04:25.21 | Chocky | 1345 :p |
| 04:25.32 | tessier | ozzloy: Umm...I did a group buy. Yeah. Thanks Chocky! :) |
| 04:25.51 | ozzloy | tessier: did you get a discount as a result? |
| 04:26.10 | tessier | Now I've got it on the network from my desktop via usb. I can ssh to it and get prompted for a root password but when I hit enter at the presumably blank root password it just seems to hang. |
| 04:26.20 | Chocky | just shy of $400 inc tax and shipping |
| 04:26.48 | ozzloy | for the phone, or phone+stuff? |
| 04:26.53 | Chocky | incl stuff |
| 04:26.57 | ozzloy | ooOOooh |
| 04:27.00 | tessier | phone plus all the charger, headset, other doodads. |
| 04:27.12 | tessier | The dog loves the laser pointer in the pen/stylud. |
| 04:27.13 | tessier | stylud |
| 04:27.17 | tessier | stylus! |
| 04:27.22 | ozzloy | heh |
| 04:27.22 | KrisAbsinthe_ | tessier: sweet thanks |
| 04:28.03 | ozzloy | i work for a company that makes very tiny cameras. do you guys have interest in putting a camera in the next hardware revision? |
| 04:28.16 | ozzloy | i'll poke around at work if there's interest |
| 04:28.17 | Chocky | It would be almost expected |
| 04:28.28 | Chocky | since at that time, _everyone_ will have one |
| 04:28.34 | tessier | Hrm...can't ssh in. |
| 04:28.44 | KrisAbsinthe_ | exactly, I think a company should make "snap ins" for the existing models too |
| 04:29.12 | nullpuppy | ozzloy: from what i can remember, gta03 is supposed ot have a camera, so you might want to contact openmoko if you think you're company would make a good fit.. |
| 04:29.28 | ozzloy | nullpuppy: kk |
| 04:29.58 | ozzloy | tessier: when did you get your precious? |
| 04:30.10 | tessier | ozzloy: This afternoon around 6:30 |
| 04:30.13 | tessier | evening I guess |
| 04:30.16 | tessier | Around 3 hours ago. |
| 04:30.27 | nullpuppy | i won't have mine until monday :( |
| 04:30.52 | nullpuppy | if ups was open tomorrow, i suppose i could drive to the hub, but.. meh, i think i can wait one more day. |
| 04:31.03 | nullpuppy | have a ton of stuff to do anyways |
| 04:31.45 | *** join/#openmoko jr (n=jr@p5493C314.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:32.25 | ozzloy | heh |
| 04:33.23 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 04:34.41 | *** join/#openmoko mib_4gihue (i=d863b241@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d02c386d9cab3079) |
| 04:39.17 | tessier | ah! It was my crazy ssh alias trying to automatically install my pubkey on the remote host (my freerunner, in this case) that was causing the login to appear to fail. Whee... |
| 04:39.19 | tessier | I'm in! |
| 04:39.22 | Chocky | hm, mplayer a bit messed up |
| 04:41.57 | Chocky | -fbdev better. |
| 04:42.05 | Chocky | just need to rotate now :p |
| 04:44.30 | Chocky | hm, need to trancode to 640x480 |
| 04:44.37 | Chocky | playing shrek on FR :o |
| 04:45.46 | nullpuppy | Chocky: haha, how well does it play? |
| 04:46.10 | Chocky | okish. but I'd trancoded it real small for my GPS which has low res |
| 04:46.19 | tessier | hmm... opkg update is telling me "Signature check failed" |
| 04:46.24 | Chocky | some guy's done some work for mplayer, which makes it work a lot better |
| 04:46.37 | Chocky | tessier: yeah, dunno, seems to work though |
| 04:46.51 | nullpuppy | alright, cool |
| 04:47.07 | tessier | Chocky: Well, after it says that a few times it them says "An error ocurred, return value: 8. Collected errors: |
| 04:47.07 | tessier | Failed to download http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.gz, error 0" |
| 04:47.25 | tessier | And it has a Failed to download message for each of the Packages.gz and Packages.sig it tried to download. |
| 04:47.37 | Chocky | yeh. was working early this morning |
| 04:47.52 | Chocky | but downloading the packages does work |
| 04:47.52 | mib_4gihue | Chocky: u r playing a movie on the FR? |
| 04:47.55 | Chocky | aye |
| 04:47.57 | tessier | ah, perhaps it's a dns problem... |
| 04:49.03 | *** join/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@61.170.249.211) |
| 04:49.49 | tessier | doh...I haven't even shared my network connection via nat yet. That's why. |
| 04:50.32 | KrisAbsinthe_ | getting excited lol |
| 04:53.34 | mib_4gihue | Chocky: i thought that wasnt supposed to be possible yet, what build are you using? |
| 04:53.53 | Chocky | qtopia. opkg install mplayer |
| 04:54.11 | Chocky | mplayer vo fbdev /media/card/shrek.mpg -vf rotate=1 |
| 04:54.19 | Chocky | mplayer -vo fbdev /media/card/shrek.mpg -vf rotate=1 |
| 04:57.11 | mib_4gihue | Chocky: did you get yours with the consumer release? |
| 04:57.15 | Chocky | yes |
| 04:57.27 | mib_4gihue | i want to be you |
| 04:57.38 | Chocky | careful what you wish for :p |
| 04:57.52 | niklauz | :) |
| 04:58.09 | Chocky2 | ah thats better! |
| 04:58.20 | carrar | WHERE IS MY FRICKEN PHONE!! |
| 04:58.23 | carrar | *sigh* |
| 04:58.37 | niklauz | hehe j/k |
| 04:58.51 | KrisAbsinthe_ | victory over the 1973, solar pannel finished |
| 04:58.58 | *** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@i59F700D7.versanet.de) |
| 05:02.00 | carrar | Are there any Amateur radio people in here? |
| 05:02.22 | carrar | Be cool to have a echolink or like client on the openmoko |
| 05:02.39 | KrisAbsinthe_ | Im getting my licence nest week |
| 05:02.42 | carrar | right on |
| 05:02.44 | carrar | Where you at |
| 05:02.45 | KrisAbsinthe_ | next* |
| 05:02.49 | KrisAbsinthe_ | Ohio |
| 05:02.51 | carrar | nice |
| 05:02.59 | carrar | How are you studying? |
| 05:03.05 | carrar | book? |
| 05:03.19 | carrar | I found the hamtestonline.com to be the best way |
| 05:03.33 | KrisAbsinthe_ | Used a podcast for the tech and about to cram the general down my skull with qrz.com |
| 05:03.38 | carrar | nice |
| 05:03.47 | carrar | I use the online web for my general and extra |
| 05:03.57 | carrar | got my tech & novice back in 89 |
| 05:04.01 | carrar | with code |
| 05:04.05 | KrisAbsinthe_ | damn..I was 9 |
| 05:04.07 | carrar | hahah |
| 05:04.12 | carrar | I just turned 40 today |
| 05:04.14 | carrar | @!#($!@)#($&!@#$&)@(!#$ |
| 05:04.41 | KrisAbsinthe_ | but yeah, I think echolink would be sweet on here |
| 05:04.48 | carrar | I think so too |
| 05:05.00 | mmontour | carrar: echolink doesn't seem to be open-source |
| 05:05.02 | carrar | some sort of client like that |
| 05:05.15 | carrar | I think the protocol is |
| 05:05.17 | carrar | maybe |
| 05:05.25 | carrar | I actualy don't know |
| 05:05.31 | *** join/#openmoko rtm (n=rtm@pool-68-160-37-238.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 05:05.34 | KrisAbsinthe_ | lol |
| 05:05.52 | carrar | I bet IRLP is |
| 05:06.10 | carrar | that would be just as good |
| 05:06.16 | KrisAbsinthe_ | Good chance on that one |
| 05:06.30 | KrisAbsinthe_ | if there is Linux code available that would be great lol |
| 05:06.43 | carrar | They should build a PPT button into the next phone |
| 05:06.48 | carrar | PTT |
| 05:06.57 | carrar | like those nexttel phones |
| 05:06.57 | kd8ikt | or "let go to listen" |
| 05:07.00 | KrisAbsinthe_ | could code the aux button to do it |
| 05:07.01 | carrar | yeha |
| 05:07.03 | carrar | ok |
| 05:07.11 | carrar | completely programmable? |
| 05:07.15 | mmontour | The packet-radio (ax25) suff compiles on the Neo without too much difficulty, but there's a bug with the OSS sound driver that prevents the 'soundmodem' software TNC from working properly |
| 05:07.22 | carrar | I don't have my freerunner yet |
| 05:07.34 | mmontour | I did manage to send an APRS report a few weeks ago |
| 05:07.56 | kd8ikt | that would be cool to setup like a peer to peer walkie network |
| 05:08.00 | niklauz | i don't have a FR yet but i was wondering does anyone use theirs as a tether for a laptop et al? |
| 05:08.10 | tessier | So...what's the status of 802.11 networking on the freerunner? I don't see any info on accessing the net via 802.11 on the wiki or basic googling |
| 05:08.11 | carrar | Need a flex radio in the openmoko |
| 05:08.13 | carrar | heh |
| 05:08.19 | carrar | so it can to APRS |
| 05:08.20 | carrar | do |
| 05:08.40 | Chocky | tessier: it's a bit bust in default image. |
| 05:08.49 | niklauz | is it possible to have it server as a femtocell :) ? |
| 05:08.50 | Chocky | can you poke with iwconfig etc |
| 05:08.56 | mmontour | it can do it with the help of my icom handheld and a custom cable. |
| 05:08.59 | niklauz | *serve |
| 05:09.07 | carrar | woo |
| 05:09.13 | carrar | that could be interesting |
| 05:09.19 | carrar | feed it gps points |
| 05:09.28 | mmontour | this was on a Neo1973, but it should work on Freerunner too |
| 05:09.31 | KrisAbsinthe_ | packet radio on the FR lol |
| 05:09.38 | carrar | heheh |
| 05:09.47 | carrar | make a nice TNC controller |
| 05:09.50 | carrar | heh |
| 05:10.28 | kd8ikt | hamateur eadio |
| 05:11.00 | carrar | <- W7RSZ |
| 05:11.19 | mmontour | VE7ABP here |
| 05:11.32 | carrar | WOAh and they come out of the wood work! |
| 05:11.33 | carrar | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:11.49 | carrar | woo just north of me too |
| 05:12.16 | kd8ikt | well hello tim & mike |
| 05:12.22 | carrar | :) Hi James! |
| 05:12.50 | kd8ikt | you should pop into #hamradio with me & KrisAbsinthe_ |
| 05:12.57 | KrisAbsinthe_ | mmontour: where are you |
| 05:12.58 | kd8ikt | and a ton of others |
| 05:13.12 | mmontour | Ah, Bellevue. That is quite close. (I'm in Vancouver, BC) |
| 05:13.51 | carrar | yeah |
| 05:13.57 | nullpuppy | whose in bellevue? i'm in bothell |
| 05:14.05 | carrar | I actually have my Samurai Sushi shirt on too |
| 05:14.09 | carrar | from Vancounver |
| 05:14.12 | carrar | (sp) |
| 05:14.15 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@h-60-229.A163.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 05:16.59 | Chocky | enough from me. return to the frustration tomorrow |
| 05:19.14 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peepsalo@24.174.8.249) |
| 05:21.13 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@220-136-176-197.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 05:21.19 | *** part/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@220-136-176-197.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 05:26.08 | carrar | mmontour, what do you do for work in Vancouver? |
| 05:26.24 | KrisAbsinthe_ | anyone try that debian fro the 1973 |
| 05:29.41 | *** join/#openmoko MrShleee (i=MrShlee@202.6.132.90) |
| 05:30.19 | tessier | upgrades his software |
| 05:30.26 | tessier | The wiki says wireless works but needs manual configurign |
| 05:30.28 | tessier | So that's next |
| 05:31.42 | tessier | uh |
| 05:32.13 | tessier | So while upgrading the ssh server it turned off ssh which disconnected me which killed the upgrade process and now I can't ssh backin |
| 05:32.15 | tessier | Not so smart |
| 05:32.27 | tessier | So now I get to use the "console" and tap tap tap my way to restarting ssh |
| 05:32.57 | *** join/#openmoko hklein___ (n=hklein@i59F700D7.versanet.de) |
| 05:33.06 | rtm | Is the Openmoko AGPS UI program preloaded somewhere on the Freerunner, or must it be installed? |
| 05:33.19 | tessier | rtm: Must be installed |
| 05:33.26 | tessier | Just a sec...I've got a url... |
| 05:33.40 | rtm | tessier: Thanks! |
| 05:33.49 | tessier | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#The_Package_Contents |
| 05:33.57 | tessier | It mentions installing the gps stuff |
| 05:34.03 | tessier | That's an invaluable page for getting started |
| 05:34.33 | KrisAbsinthe_ | I recomend TangGPS.org |
| 05:34.44 | tessier | You mean tangogps.org? |
| 05:34.59 | KrisAbsinthe_ | yes lol |
| 05:35.03 | tessier | The url I gave mentions how to install tango gps too |
| 05:35.11 | tessier | I installed it but haven't yet gone outside to pick up a gps signal to see if it works |
| 05:35.20 | rtm | KrisAbsinthe: Yes, I have that running, and it works well. I'm just interested in checking out any other AGSP code that's available. |
| 05:35.30 | KrisAbsinthe_ | yup |
| 05:35.55 | niklauz | how is the battery life currently? |
| 05:36.50 | tessier | How do I get a / on the standard keyboard? |
| 05:37.28 | tessier | I need to do a ./sshd to restart my ssh |
| 05:37.31 | tessier | Or I could reboot I guess.. |
| 05:38.33 | KrisAbsinthe_ | I dont know if they ever fixed the OSKB. it lacked the / the num pad style one has it |
| 05:38.45 | *** join/#openmoko milo_ (n=nilsense@dslb-088-076-232-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 05:38.52 | tessier | num pad style one is default right? |
| 05:38.58 | tessier | Where is / on that one? |
| 05:39.05 | tessier | I haven't installed the full keyboard thing yet |
| 05:39.15 | KrisAbsinthe_ | in the + |
| 05:39.23 | KrisAbsinthe_ | 3 times i think |
| 05:39.42 | *** join/#openmoko opendeep (n=pradeep@61.16.248.242) |
| 05:39.46 | tessier | I just get 3 +'s |
| 05:39.47 | KrisAbsinthe_ | dont allways work though |
| 05:40.02 | KrisAbsinthe_ | you in terminal |
| 05:40.08 | tessier | yes |
| 05:40.19 | KrisAbsinthe_ | let me check |
| 05:40.52 | KrisAbsinthe_ | not working damnit |
| 05:41.00 | KrisAbsinthe_ | its the little things |
| 05:41.15 | tessier | Ok...so how do I reboot this thing so it automatically restarts ssh? :) |
| 05:41.18 | owen1 | does openmoko identify the wireless network and connects automatically? |
| 05:41.22 | tessier | Holding down the power button isn't doing anything.... |
| 05:41.26 | tessier | owen1: Unfortunately, no. |
| 05:41.28 | tessier | owen1: Just a sec... |
| 05:41.35 | tessier | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan |
| 05:41.43 | tessier | I'm about to give the wireless a try myself, after I fix my broken ssh |
| 05:42.06 | KrisAbsinthe_ | pressing the power should bring up a menu |
| 05:42.10 | owen1 | tessier: so whenever u go somewhere with wireless u need to mess aroung with a config file? |
| 05:42.21 | tessier | owen1: I don't know... |
| 05:42.35 | KrisAbsinthe_ | not if you add essid="any" |
| 05:42.40 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182052081.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 05:42.40 | KrisAbsinthe_ | and its open |
| 05:42.52 | owen1 | tessier: (-: when did u get your phone and what are u plan of doing with it? |
| 05:44.14 | tessier | owen1: I got it 4 hours ago. I plan to use my phone like a phone and make phone calls with it. |
| 05:44.28 | tessier | If wireless and gps and other stuff works so much the better. |
| 05:44.47 | niklauz | i hope to use mine to take over the world |
| 05:45.02 | niklauz | or at least as a gprs wlan access point |
| 05:45.06 | niklauz | for my laptop |
| 05:45.26 | owen1 | tessier: do u have to use t-mobile carrier to make phone calls? |
| 05:46.01 | owen1 | tessier: (i assumed u'r in the us) |
| 05:46.02 | tessier | owen1: You can use any gsm carrier you want as far as I know. I use AT&T/Cingular |
| 05:46.46 | malik1972 | neocon doesnt seem to work |
| 05:47.38 | owen1 | tessier: so if u have AT&T all you need is to move your sim card into the moko? |
| 05:47.53 | tessier | owen1: That's what I did and it worked. |
| 05:48.28 | owen1 | tessier: so out of the box, it's working as phone? no issues? |
| 05:48.35 | tessier | owen1: Correct |
| 05:48.47 | owen1 | tessier: cool |
| 05:48.51 | tessier | So far. I've only made 3 or 4 calls with it. Haven't tested bluetooth and other stuff. But so far so good |
| 05:49.22 | owen1 | tessier: are u in the US? |
| 05:49.33 | owen1 | tessier: how much did it cost? |
| 05:49.47 | tessier | owen1: I am in the US. I did a group buy. $196 including shipping and tax etc. |
| 05:49.48 | tessier | er... |
| 05:49.49 | tessier | 396 |
| 05:50.55 | owen1 | tessier: is there a way to make calls without a carrier? |
| 05:51.09 | carrar | sip over wifi? |
| 05:51.22 | KrisAbsinthe_ | not yet |
| 05:51.35 | owen1 | tessier: and is it thicker than iphon? |
| 05:51.40 | owen1 | iphone |
| 05:51.48 | *** join/#openmoko spannu (n=asdf@c-24-4-145-33.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:52.19 | carrar | the iPhone customer base is not suitable typically for a openmoko |
| 05:52.24 | carrar | thats been my findings |
| 05:52.52 | tessier | owen1: Just slightly |
| 05:53.01 | owen1 | tessier: nice |
| 05:53.10 | tessier | It's a very nice size/shape |
| 05:53.26 | owen1 | tessier: too bad i am with verizon.. |
| 05:53.39 | carrar | switch |
| 05:54.17 | KrisAbsinthe_ | get a prepaid SIM for the FR |
| 05:54.27 | owen1 | carrar: isn't it the edge network? |
| 05:54.41 | owen1 | KrisAbsinthe_: are u talking to me? |
| 05:54.58 | carrar | onlined limited by your phone |
| 05:55.00 | carrar | only |
| 05:55.17 | carrar | I have a cigular/AT&T HSPDA card |
| 05:55.29 | carrar | it streams a constant 1mbps |
| 05:55.34 | nibbler | doesn't verizon have a gsm network? |
| 05:56.00 | owen1 | nibbler: i don't know |
| 05:56.22 | KrisAbsinthe_ | owen1: yeah, buy a FR if you want one and get a prepaid At&T phone(walmart $15) use the sim from that for the FR until you switch to a GSM provider |
| 05:56.44 | KrisAbsinthe_ | nibbler: No verizon is TDMA/CDMA |
| 05:56.50 | nibbler | mhh. i see. |
| 05:57.35 | *** join/#openmoko jfrousval (n=jfrousva@ARouen-152-1-46-192.w90-22.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 05:57.46 | owen1 | KrisAbsinthe_: what is FR? |
| 05:58.27 | carrar | Fruit Rollups? |
| 05:58.36 | carrar | maybe France |
| 06:00.02 | tessier | FR = Freerunner |
| 06:00.17 | KrisAbsinthe_ | exactly |
| 06:00.43 | KrisAbsinthe_ | I got tired of typing that a week after they announced the name |
| 06:04.17 | KrisAbsinthe_ | can someone give me their output of /etc/proc/apm |
| 06:04.19 | owen1 | how much do i need to pay for AT&T for the data plan? |
| 06:04.46 | KrisAbsinthe_ | they have $60 for unlimited, maybe less with a new signup |
| 06:07.18 | owen1 | is it reasnable to buy FR just for it's wifi/gps capabilities (since i am not going to switch from Verison)? |
| 06:07.49 | KrisAbsinthe_ | depends how much you like linux |
| 06:08.26 | owen1 | KrisAbsinthe_: i just switched to debian (from ubuntu) and enjoy tweaking it. |
| 06:08.42 | niklauz | thats not bad |
| 06:08.59 | niklauz | the 60$/at&t plan |
| 06:09.22 | KrisAbsinthe_ | even the Neo1973 is good for GPS. Thats all I use it for, other than ettercap lol |
| 06:09.39 | niklauz | owen1: i'm going to use my work bb's sim for the FR |
| 06:09.55 | *** join/#openmoko drath (i=vmaster@p5B07D68C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:10.06 | tessier | KrisAbsinthe_: ettercap eh? What do you do with that? |
| 06:10.33 | KrisAbsinthe_ | check my LAN |
| 06:11.08 | tessier | for what? |
| 06:11.25 | owen1 | are there different browsers to choose from and are the usable? |
| 06:11.33 | owen1 | the=they |
| 06:11.50 | KrisAbsinthe_ | non-local traffic |
| 06:12.54 | tessier | KrisAbsinthe_: aliens? |
| 06:13.28 | KrisAbsinthe_ | lol, wardrivers |
| 06:13.36 | *** join/#openmoko KrisAbsinthe (n=KrisAbsi@cpe-24-210-164-205.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 06:13.47 | KrisAbsinthe | had to switch computers |
| 06:15.36 | tessier | Wow, opkg upgrade sure takes a while |
| 06:15.50 | owen1 | is surfing the web convinient? is the browser usable? |
| 06:16.13 | tessier | owen1: I haven't really tried it yet. I just got my personal site to come up then moved on to upgrading software |
| 06:16.49 | niklauz | does the qtopia stack use webkit? |
| 06:19.34 | owen1 | does it have a protection case? is it sturdy? |
| 06:19.38 | *** join/#openmoko sitwon (n=adam@pool-71-178-11-192.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 06:20.41 | tessier | owen1: Seems pretty study to me. More sturdy than my Treo IMHO |
| 06:20.50 | tessier | I like the rounded shape and rubberized edges. |
| 06:21.00 | tessier | Not really rubber but bouncy plastic |
| 06:21.08 | tessier | Seems like it would fare well in a drop |
| 06:21.31 | KrisAbsinthe | I dropped my 1973 from waist height |
| 06:21.45 | tessier | runs opkg upgrade from the console terminal instead of via ssh so the ssh upgrade doesn't cut me off and kill the upgrade process |
| 06:22.16 | *** join/#openmoko Fossi (n=fossi@d192092.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 06:24.12 | KrisAbsinthe | well, I am putting the 2007.1 image on my neo lol |
| 06:25.11 | lpotter | niklauz: qtopia 4.4 will |
| 06:25.11 | tessier | wonders what image he is currently running |
| 06:25.14 | tessier | Hopefully something recent. |
| 06:25.36 | KrisAbsinthe | yeah, 7-9-08 |
| 06:27.04 | BHSPitLappy | my brain is acting weird |
| 06:27.36 | BHSPitLappy | when you said "putting", I read it as you would read "a putting green" |
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| 06:28.06 | KrisAbsinthe | lol |
| 06:28.36 | geekgirl | hi |
| 06:28.44 | owen1 | to tweak it u connect it via usb to your computer and ssh into it? |
| 06:28.51 | KrisAbsinthe | yup |
| 06:29.05 | niklauz | tips hat at lpotter |
| 06:29.33 | tessier | You know what is my favorite part of the freerunner phone? |
| 06:29.35 | owen1 | actually, do u have to be connected with usb or maybe wireless connection will be enough? |
| 06:29.42 | tessier | The pet exerciser. |
| 06:30.01 | geekgirl | does anyone have the freerunner yet? |
| 06:30.08 | KrisAbsinthe | any network connection could be configured, i use Bluetooth most the time |
| 06:30.11 | tessier | owen1: wireless is enough but it seems at this point you have to configure the wireless via the usb net connection |
| 06:30.16 | tessier | geekgirl: Yes, lots have it |
| 06:30.21 | tessier | Including me |
| 06:30.48 | geekgirl | know of any promotional deals or discounts or anything? |
| 06:30.51 | owen1 | tessier: you shuold blog about your experinentation. |
| 06:31.09 | tessier | geekgirl: The group buy |
| 06:31.18 | tessier | geekgirl: Buy 10 and get a discount. |
| 06:31.22 | geekgirl | how much do you save on the group buy? |
| 06:31.24 | tessier | So round up 9 friends who want a phone |
| 06:31.32 | tessier | uh...I don't recall. Check the wiki |
| 06:31.37 | geekgirl | thanks |
| 06:31.51 | geekgirl | trying to buy it for a friend |
| 06:32.06 | KrisAbsinthe | they should do a trade-in for the 1973, I added solar panels though |
| 06:32.16 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 06:32.16 | tessier | hmmm |
| 06:32.18 | tessier | I did an opkg upgrade |
| 06:32.21 | owen1 | can it play video? vlc/mplayer? |
| 06:32.24 | tessier | And it seems to be writing the new kernel to flash and everything |
| 06:32.31 | tessier | So is this the same as upgrading the image? |
| 06:32.58 | tessier | owen1: Yes |
| 06:33.01 | tessier | owen1: mplayer |
| 06:33.08 | *** part/#openmoko Arg0nauT (n=steve@bas2-toronto02-1279462409.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 06:33.10 | tessier | KrisAbsinthe: solar eh? Very cool. |
| 06:33.29 | tessier | Wow, my phone just rebooted all by itself. Presumably part of the upgrade. |
| 06:33.38 | KrisAbsinthe | trying to add battery life, so far about 20% we will see lol |
| 06:34.20 | tessier | Hopefully someday we can coat the surfaces of everything with solar panels |
| 06:34.20 | BHSPitLappy | KrisAbsinthe, you should definitely get the device to output more than it inputs |
| 06:34.30 | tessier | If the whole phone were coated with solar I wonder how much power it would get |
| 06:34.35 | BHSPitLappy | I've learned that's a key principle in the design of any machine |
| 06:34.47 | tessier | Probably not much since mine is always in my pocket. Except when I sleep which is at night when it wouldn't get much solar power either. :) |
| 06:34.54 | KrisAbsinthe | I would like to balance it out to 1:1 lol not gonna happen though |
| 06:34.57 | BHSPitLappy | Pocket Power? |
| 06:35.10 | BHSPitLappy | KrisAbsinthe, move to phoenix? |
| 06:35.32 | KrisAbsinthe | ACK, I hate heat. |
| 06:36.56 | owen1 | how is the touch screen? in it responsive and easy to use? |
| 06:37.04 | tessier | owen1: yes |
| 06:37.06 | tessier | It is very nice |
| 06:37.08 | niklauz | pocket powe sounds a little dirty |
| 06:37.18 | KrisAbsinthe | yeah it does |
| 06:37.43 | KrisAbsinthe | ok the 2007.1 image sucks |
| 06:37.50 | niklauz | though there is research relating to using kinetic energy in clothing to generate electricity |
| 06:38.35 | tessier | pocket power sounds cool. I've never quite understood how self-winding watches and other kinetic power stuff worked |
| 06:38.44 | niklauz | krisabsinthe, lol :( |
| 06:39.14 | tessier | Who follows an lol with a :( ? |
| 06:39.30 | rtm | Manic depressives. |
| 06:39.30 | tessier | My dog died! :) I won the lottery! :( |
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| 06:40.31 | niklauz | it's like a sympathetic laugh, hehe idk |
| 06:40.50 | niklauz | ya it does look funny |
| 06:42.37 | KrisAbsinthe | go obama ...... id get eaten alive in the other channel. just though I would put it out there |
| 06:44.08 | niklauz | is obama going to 'free my phone' ? |
| 06:44.27 | owen1 | drop test "Should pass 1m direct drop to concrete ground or 1.5m on slide with carpet". tessier, try it and let us know! |
| 06:44.36 | niklauz | is going to milk my cow, or do my dishes before my gf starts complaining about them? No! |
| 06:44.43 | niklauz | don't beleive the hype |
| 06:45.02 | niklauz | only the freerunner can do those things! |
| 06:45.11 | KrisAbsinthe | HA HA HA |
| 06:45.16 | niklauz | :) |
| 06:45.37 | niklauz | ya obama is pretty impressive |
| 06:45.56 | KrisAbsinthe | Better than the incumbent |
| 06:46.05 | KrisAbsinthe | but so is Mr.Ed |
| 06:46.23 | niklauz | lol |
| 06:46.30 | niklauz | this is true |
| 06:46.43 | garnser_ | is there any equvialent to rc.local on the openmoko? |
| 06:46.45 | niklauz | u know, there should be a chuckle out loud tla |
| 06:51.11 | tessier | hmm....my freerunner isn't picking up any gps signals |
| 06:51.38 | KrisAbsinthe | are you inside |
| 06:51.39 | KrisAbsinthe | lol |
| 06:52.28 | tessier | No, I went out in my back yard |
| 06:52.37 | tessier | Running the AGPS test I see 42 failed fixes |
| 06:52.39 | tessier | 0 good fixes |
| 06:52.55 | KrisAbsinthe | hmm, that sucks. I know nothing about the FR |
| 06:53.08 | tessier | KrisAbsinthe: You just have the 1973? |
| 06:54.24 | KrisAbsinthe | yeah, wont buy another OM device for a long time. I helped find about 200 bugs. Including the "Show stopper" No GSM 850.. they refused to repair my phone, even if i paid them |
| 06:54.43 | tessier | oops |
| 06:54.51 | tessier | What's wrong with your phone? |
| 06:55.12 | tessier | I see lots of NMEA data in the log... |
| 06:55.37 | KrisAbsinthe | I cant make calls in most of my state |
| 06:55.54 | tessier | And that's a phone defect? |
| 06:56.22 | KrisAbsinthe | an oversight by OM. |
| 06:56.50 | sitwon | tessier: it seems the GPS not working is a common issue... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS_Problems and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_GPS_antenna_repair_SOP |
| 06:59.21 | sitwon | I think my FR might also be affected by the GPS problems, I'm going to do a more thourogh investigation tomorrow to be sure it's not user error in my case |
| 07:00.35 | owen1 | is it too big to carry as an mp3 player? is there a way to wrap it on my arm as an ipod? |
| 07:00.59 | owen1 | (it will be nice to get rid of my nano) |
| 07:02.03 | KrisAbsinthe | glad I can read some german, just installed this sweet image but its german. i like it |
| 07:02.04 | sitwon | owen1: it's a little smaller than the original iPod, not as small as a nano or as thin as the touch |
| 07:02.05 | tessier | owen1: It's a lot bigger than a nano |
| 07:02.35 | tessier | sitwon: Hmm...Any idea how to open it up so I can inspect the gps antenna? I'm not afraid of some poking or even soldering. |
| 07:02.39 | owen1 | tessier: i know. i wonder if it can replace my nano.. |
| 07:02.49 | sitwon | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 |
| 07:03.33 | KrisAbsinthe | its real easy |
| 07:03.39 | sitwon | owen1: I think you might want to wait a little bit... I don't think the battery would last too long if you used it as an mp3 player (just a guess though) |
| 07:04.45 | KrisAbsinthe | tessier: If you need to make the special tool to get the screws out let me know and ill tell you how |
| 07:06.27 | tessier | I only see one torx screw. |
| 07:06.47 | tessier | in the top right when looking at the back of the phone right-side up |
| 07:07.07 | KrisAbsinthe | oh, I *assumed* it was the same as the 1973 |
| 07:07.55 | KrisAbsinthe | which was torx, but I didnt have one. |
| 07:08.10 | tessier | This looks like torx also |
| 07:10.14 | KrisAbsinthe | what the hell is the command to make a program display on a different screen |
| 07:10.23 | tessier | WTF would they use Torx on an open phone? |
| 07:10.33 | carrar | hahah |
| 07:10.34 | tessier | Torx is what you use when you want to stop people from dicking with things. |
| 07:10.50 | KrisAbsinthe | and a BIC pen is the liberator |
| 07:10.54 | carrar | I use TORX 27 to take the darbey cover off my Harley |
| 07:11.07 | tessier | BIC pen? |
| 07:11.45 | carrar | if my openmoko is interchangable with my harley? thats hot |
| 07:11.51 | tessier | None of my little screwdrivers are torx it seems. I do have a few torx somewhere but they are much bigger. |
| 07:12.02 | KrisAbsinthe | melt it to make an impression, let it cool and its good for one screw |
| 07:12.39 | tessier | KrisAbsinthe: That sounds JUST like an ex-gf of mine... |
| 07:13.05 | KrisAbsinthe | LoL |
| 07:13.13 | MrShleee | The question is - do I buy a FR now or later? |
| 07:13.15 | nibbler | nope... if you want to stop people from dicking with things you use these: http://www.foerch.de/files/customized/foerch/productcatalog/bf05c5ee-0e13-46ea-8129-e9ff9071a601/thumbnails/image_4.jpg |
| 07:13.44 | nibbler | or one of these... http://www.screwfastfix.com/sec_scr.html |
| 07:16.50 | tessier | T6x40...what does the x40 mean? |
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| 07:24.45 | tessier | just ordered a Torx T6 |
| 07:24.53 | tessier | I can wait a few days to fix the GPS. |
| 07:25.00 | tessier | Now to figure out how to make it power back up again. It's a bit weird. |
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| 07:25.47 | KrisAbsinthe | thats not good |
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| 07:30.19 | tessier | hmm...the little red light under the aux button flashes occasionally but I can't get the rest of the phone to power up now. |
| 07:30.52 | tessier | I think maybe the battery is just really low |
| 07:31.42 | tessier | It makes a really faint static like sound when I push the button. I guess I've drained it already. |
| 07:31.45 | tessier | leaves it for the night |
| 07:32.32 | KrisAbsinthe | probably. I hate it for you |
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| 08:08.04 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 08:17.29 | tessier | wonders why the time and date on his openmoko is wrong |
| 08:17.35 | tessier | Isn't it supposed to get it from the GPS network? |
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| 08:52.19 | Tanuva | hm.. my neo with fso-image was suspended for 7h with 100% accu. now at least 95% are left. very nice. |
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| 09:00.29 | rtm | Has anyone seen any "official" response from Openmoko.com to the GPS problems many/most/all? buyers of the Freerunner are seeing with the GPS unit? |
| 09:03.11 | MrShlee | Nothing official - It is a real issue but the amount of people affected is unknown. |
| 09:04.14 | rtm | I think everyone within our 10-pack buyer's group has a unit that doesn't work at all. |
| 09:05.03 | rtm | Since the warranty is so short, I wpnder if we should send them all back if we don't hear something soon. |
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| 09:06.42 | rtm | It's a shame, because the GPS performance of the neo1973 was actually pretty good once gllin became available. |
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| 09:23.03 | Lo-lan-do | I think I have bits of ASU installed along the Openmoko stuff |
| 09:23.15 | Lo-lan-do | (I can briefly see boots during the booting process) |
| 09:23.20 | Lo-lan-do | Any idea what package to remove? |
| 09:23.47 | rtm | I think the recent 2007.2 images show the boots during booting. |
| 09:24.06 | Lo-lan-do | I see. |
| 09:24.37 | Lo-lan-do | Next question: can I get the tools tu use a locale I installed? |
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| 09:25.11 | rtm | I have installed a recent image, I see the boots, but nothing seems to be broken (apart from GPS, which was broken before I put in the new image) after it boots. |
| 09:25.11 | Lo-lan-do | I installed locale-base-fr-fr, I'd like to have the Contacts app use it (at least for sorting names) |
| 09:25.27 | ieatlint_ | actually i think only the ASU has the boots |
| 09:25.46 | ieatlint_ | if it boots into a black home screen with a grid of icons, it's ASU |
| 09:25.54 | ieatlint_ | "Assassin", "Campwifi", etc |
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| 09:26.28 | Lo-lan-do | It doesn't here, I just see the boots briefly. |
| 09:26.49 | ieatlint_ | so i've yet to touch the gps... is the problem that it doesn't work at all, or that it takes 15min to get a fix? |
| 09:27.24 | Lo-lan-do | Doesn't work at all for some people, myself included :-( |
| 09:28.03 | Tanuva | i have had an unassisted fix within 200secs once |
| 09:28.28 | malik1972 | hello, new problem, new luck |
| 09:28.34 | rtm | ieatlint: openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2, which I think is a 2007.2 rootfs, boots showing boots, but has the traditional 2007.2 UI (kinetic scroll of icons, etc). |
| 09:29.00 | ieatlint_ | that is 2007.2 |
| 09:29.07 | ieatlint_ | if it says qtopia-x11 or something, it's ASU |
| 09:29.14 | rtm | It shows them boots. |
| 09:29.16 | malik1972 | cannot connect to uboot via usb, no /dev/ttyACM0 on the desktop side |
| 09:29.27 | malik1972 | it disappeared |
| 09:29.49 | rtm | It says nothing about qtopia, and it looks nothing like the youtube videos I've seen of ASU. |
| 09:29.58 | ieatlint_ | i'd go outside to try my gps, but i'm not wearing any pants |
| 09:30.23 | rtm | /dev/ttyACM0 will disappear if uboot times-out. |
| 09:31.22 | ieatlint_ | i look forward to the theorised/fantasised SHR |
| 09:31.52 | rtm | ieatlint: I believe most of the reports on GPS performance so far have been from people wearing pants. You could increase the volume of perameter space searched. |
| 09:32.26 | malik1972 | rtm: tried to reboot, reconnect, its not there anymore |
| 09:32.52 | ieatlint_ | well, i'm also at my girlfriend's apartment and it's not in the safest area and it's 2:35am |
| 09:33.53 | rtm | malik1972: Did you reboot the phone, or the computer you are going to download from? |
| 09:34.14 | malik1972 | rtm: both, module ctm_acm is loaded |
| 09:35.01 | malik1972 | cdc sorry |
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| 09:35.51 | rtm | malik1972: Sorry, I don't know what the problem is then. I've seen that device disappear, as recently as tonight, but only when uboot timed out. Restarting uboot fixed it. Setting the uboot timout interval to a huge number fixed it for good, I think. |
| 09:36.53 | malik1972 | rtm: thats not the problem, the problem maybe on the desktop side |
| 09:37.22 | rtm | What distribution are you running on the desktop? |
| 09:37.29 | malik1972 | opensuse 10.3 |
| 09:37.40 | malik1972 | i tried to mknod it |
| 09:37.45 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485F664.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:37.52 | malik1972 | but it didnt helped |
| 09:38.01 | malik1972 | mysterious |
| 09:38.14 | rtm | malik1972: You did see the device at some time in the past, right? |
| 09:38.20 | malik1972 | sure |
| 09:38.44 | malik1972 | i flashed a new uboot version and that also worked in the beginning |
| 09:40.53 | malik1972 | new try |
| 09:43.35 | *** join/#openmoko DocCod (n=doctomoe@88.207.136.98) |
| 09:43.39 | spydon | Does all Freerunners have that GPS issue? |
| 09:43.50 | mjr | no |
| 09:44.09 | rtm | spydon: A very large number do. |
| 09:44.35 | spydon | Okay :/ |
| 09:45.28 | mjr | wouldn't be so sure of all the reports... somebody in the finnish group order had problems, but when I got my hands on his device and grepped ttySAC1 for a couple of minutes, it got a fix fine... |
| 09:45.43 | *** join/#openmoko christ (n=chatzill@h135128.upc-h.chello.nl) |
| 09:45.57 | mjr | currently I'm a bit skeptical of gpsd perhaps getting confused from the chip's output |
| 09:46.37 | *** join/#openmoko exco (n=exco@e181100035.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:46.41 | christ | I'm trying to setup MokoMakefile on a newly installed Ubuntu 6.06. apt-get complains that sqlite3 is not an available package. Any ideas? |
| 09:46.51 | exco | hello |
| 09:47.40 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=Dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 09:47.52 | rtm | mjr: Do you know if openmoko-agpsui connects to gpsd, or if it parses the GPS chip's output directly? |
| 09:48.10 | mjr | dunno about that, but apparently he did try that too |
| 09:48.45 | ieatlint_ | the gps tty is one-way isn't it? |
| 09:48.48 | mjr | so, I'd grep ttySAC1 directly for fixes before being too sure there's a problem |
| 09:48.51 | mjr | ieatlint_, no |
| 09:49.21 | ieatlint_ | so the controls are what, off/on? or can you feed it a last location type deal to aid in getting a fix? |
| 09:49.47 | rtm | mjr: I grep'd ttySAC1 directly, and did not see any valid data come through. |
| 09:50.04 | mjr | you can feed it orbital data (and get a dump before turning it off so you can reinitialize it) |
| 09:50.07 | DocCod | ieatlint_: you can feed it with data |
| 09:50.15 | mjr | that will help a lot with esp. the first fix time |
| 09:50.32 | mjr | rtm, okay (I presume also waiting for a reasonable time in a reasonable spot for a fix) |
| 09:50.37 | ieatlint_ | that's good then |
| 09:50.54 | DocCod | I got my FFT down from > 10 Minutes to 1-2 Minutes by feeding it almanac and ephemeridis data |
| 09:51.07 | mjr | I don't doubt there are faulty units around, just saying that at least in this case it might've been some software glitch since I got a fix pretty quickly |
| 09:51.09 | rtm | mjr: Yup, I stood for more than 1 hour in a baseball filed. |
| 09:51.16 | rtm | (field) |
| 09:51.46 | mjr | of course it might've been also a glitchy connection that happened to be better when I tried, but I'll be keeping an eye out for that |
| 09:52.28 | ieatlint_ | well, i'm convinced to put pants on and go try it |
| 09:52.36 | rtm | One thing seems indisputable - the neo1973's GPS chip was better. |
| 09:52.36 | ieatlint_ | but i'm flashing a 2007.2 image at the moment |
| 09:53.06 | ieatlint_ | well if it's a fix time, it could be an issue of feeding it init data |
| 09:53.17 | exco | opkg update |
| 09:53.28 | mjr | I didn't have orbital data to feed it, so my result is just from the sats |
| 09:53.40 | exco | sorry wrong window |
| 09:53.47 | mjr | exco, no kidding? :) |
| 09:54.07 | ieatlint_ | whoever puts the packages on http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080712/ screwed up today |
| 09:54.12 | ieatlint_ | i've two images labeled Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080712-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 09:54.30 | ieatlint_ | one i downloaded one in the morning and one at night, and they're different md5sums |
| 09:58.04 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@83.68.218.53) |
| 10:02.58 | malik1972 | i get also "No such Alternate Setting: "kernel"" while flashing a kernel |
| 10:03.25 | Tanuva | seems to be a bug, simply try again |
| 10:03.31 | Tanuva | I get this message sometimes, too |
| 10:04.04 | ieatlint_ | it's the device isn't quite initialised yet and it doesn't detect it |
| 10:04.20 | ieatlint_ | i mean, it detects the device, but not that the device isn't ready |
| 10:05.26 | malik1972 | i cannot connect to uboot via usb and not use df-util |
| 10:05.49 | malik1972 | where i have to work on desktop side? |
| 10:06.41 | *** join/#openmoko mira (n=mira_von@82.208.25.254) |
| 10:07.30 | malik1972 | has someone similiar problems? |
| 10:07.46 | *** join/#openmoko ohin (n=opera@zli1-v-1-166.static.adsl.vol.cz) |
| 10:08.33 | ieatlint_ | dfu-util has been very reliable for me |
| 10:09.17 | malik1972 | hmmm |
| 10:09.27 | ieatlint_ | how are you getting into u-boot? |
| 10:09.36 | malik1972 | via nand |
| 10:09.38 | ieatlint_ | are you pressing aux and then power, or power and then aux? |
| 10:09.41 | malik1972 | poer+aux |
| 10:09.49 | malik1972 | 1. power |
| 10:09.49 | ieatlint_ | try aux+power |
| 10:09.52 | malik1972 | the aux |
| 10:09.58 | ieatlint_ | hasn't failed me yet |
| 10:11.34 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 10:12.04 | malik1972 | okay, dfu-util works after rebooting |
| 10:12.20 | ieatlint_ | yay |
| 10:12.58 | malik1972 | i am reflashing things |
| 10:13.45 | christ | Ok, apt-get install sqlite* has helped a bit, now I get: make openmoko-devel-image |
| 10:13.47 | christ | ( cd build && . ../setup-env && \ |
| 10:13.49 | christ | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:13.50 | christ | ERROR: sqlite3 version 3.3.0 or later is required. |
| 10:13.52 | christ | make: *** [openmoko-devel-image] Error 1 |
| 10:14.35 | Elleo | you probably want libsqlite3-0 and libsqlite3-dev |
| 10:15.07 | malik1972 | nevertheless i can not use /dev/ttySAC0 |
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| 10:31.29 | christ | libsqlite3-0 is already the newest version. |
| 10:31.30 | christ | libsqlite3-dev is already the newest version. |
| 10:31.39 | christ | Thanks, but I had these already. |
| 10:32.31 | Elleo | and are they newer than version 3.3? (apt-cache show libsqlite3-0 will tell you) |
| 10:32.47 | Elleo | though if you're using a vaguely recent distribution they should be |
| 10:34.42 | Elleo | oh and I think you also require the python sqlite3 bindings (python-pysqlite2) though I'd have thought it'd be more explicit if that's what was missing |
| 10:35.19 | christ | Version 3.2.something... |
| 10:35.29 | christ | pysqlite2 I have as well... |
| 10:35.41 | Elleo | well, that would appear to be your problem then |
| 10:35.41 | christ | I just installed them this morning! |
| 10:35.52 | Elleo | what distribution are you using? |
| 10:35.58 | christ | 6.06 TLS... |
| 10:36.05 | Elleo | yeah, that's quite old |
| 10:36.13 | christ | Old, I know, but one I also know will work with QEmu... |
| 10:36.22 | christ | And I mean to _install_ in QEmu. |
| 10:36.34 | *** join/#openmoko CMatters (n=lowell@80.80.170.124) |
| 10:36.43 | Elleo | well, you could compile a newer version of sqlite yourself I guess |
| 10:36.43 | christ | So, redo from scratch and install 7.something? |
| 10:36.52 | christ | Perhaps, how? |
| 10:37.22 | Elleo | download the sqlite source and go through the normal procedure (./configure && make && sudo make install) |
| 10:37.33 | Elleo | or sudo checkinstall to have it automatically make a debian package for you |
| 10:38.06 | Elleo | or you could try getting a more recent package from a newer distribution, but I expect it'll depend on a lot of other newer packages too |
| 10:38.24 | Elleo | the easiest option would probably be to just upgrade to Hardy (assuming the upgrade works correctly) |
| 10:39.31 | Elleo | or another option would be to just install hardy in a chroot |
| 10:39.47 | Elleo | although that'd take up quite a lot of space |
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| 10:50.01 | `pwgen` | mickeyl|lunch: ping |
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| 10:54.05 | Tanuva | hmm... either the python-edje tutorial is broken or theres something wrong with the neo... |
| 10:54.07 | ieatlint_ | does openmoko-agpsui use gpsd? |
| 10:54.28 | Tanuva | I think it accesses /dev/ttySAC1 directly, but not sure |
| 10:54.50 | ieatlint_ | i thought so too, but it occured to me that if it didn't, it may explain its failure to fix |
| 10:55.10 | Tanuva | but gpsd starts when the fix is there, not before... |
| 10:55.20 | *** join/#openmoko tunys (n=tuna@unaffiliated/t00na) |
| 10:55.23 | tunys | helloes mokos |
| 10:55.39 | Tanuva | maybe its using this strange "gllin" I'm reading about everywhere |
| 10:55.52 | ieatlint_ | gllin from what i read is for the gta01 |
| 10:55.58 | Tanuva | ah... |
| 10:56.10 | Ainulindale | mickey|lunch: just so you know, I tried to do frameworkd -s ogsmd on 2007.2 with a dead phonekit, and it fails to register (timeout, as if I didn't have GSM) |
| 10:56.16 | tunys | uh, can anyone else get to fica.com |
| 10:56.18 | ieatlint_ | "Gllin is an userspace driver for a hammerhead GPS chip. It was distributed on phase1 openmokos. " http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gllin |
| 10:56.59 | Tanuva | hmm... so where does it get its data from... I thought it would cat the device file because you can see the raw output in the other tab |
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| 10:57.29 | ieatlint_ | when i cat the device i get the same data over and over again -- no variation |
| 10:57.46 | Tanuva | because you have no fix yet |
| 10:58.04 | *** join/#openmoko lzy-- (n=lzy@59-126-117-54.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 10:58.12 | Tanuva | that changes once you got a fix, which I experienced once |
| 10:58.14 | ieatlint_ | hmmm, i still think it should be giving something |
| 10:59.24 | Tanuva | grml, I need some decent edje tutorial... the one on the enlightenment wiki produces errors on the noe |
| 10:59.29 | Tanuva | s/noe/neo/ |
| 10:59.44 | `pwgen` | gllin is a userspace driver uesed on gta01 hardware . it can provide nmeap output |
| 10:59.52 | *** part/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182052081.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 11:11.03 | ieatlint_ | when openmoko-agpsui gives me messages like "stopped gllin successfully" ... i do truly wonder if it's just a software issue |
| 11:11.29 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009013021.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 11:13.28 | mickeyl | Robot101: ping |
| 11:14.43 | emilis_info | hm hm |
| 11:14.56 | emilis_info | anyone knows where can I find X log under FR? |
| 11:15.03 | mickeyl | try /tmp/x.log |
| 11:15.57 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 11:15.59 | emilis_info | mickeyl, thx |
| 11:18.37 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: am I supposed to kill gsmd in order to launch frameworkd ? |
| 11:18.45 | *** join/#openmoko surf2me (n=surfer@unixboard/users/surf2me) |
| 11:18.47 | *** join/#openmoko mira (n=mira_von@82.208.25.254) |
| 11:18.51 | Ainulindale | I don't know if it manages it by itself |
| 11:19.00 | mickeyl | Ainulindale: yes. the both compete for /dev/ttySAC0 |
| 11:19.27 | Ainulindale | Ok, so in order to have a working frameworkd, I have to kill gsmd, kill phone-kit, then launch frameworkd |
| 11:19.30 | Ainulindale | Any special parameter ? |
| 11:20.55 | mickeyl | for a start, i'd limit it to only the ogsmd subsystem |
| 11:20.59 | mickeyl | by calling it with -s ogsmd |
| 11:21.11 | mickeyl | then, it will launch gsm0710muxd (which you hopefully have installed) |
| 11:21.14 | mickeyl | and launch itself |
| 11:21.26 | Ainulindale | Oh, gsm0701muxd you say |
| 11:21.28 | Ainulindale | :-) |
| 11:21.37 | Ainulindale | (weird the debug log didn't say anything about that) |
| 11:22.19 | Ainulindale | Which package is it in ? |
| 11:22.27 | mickeyl | gsm0710muxd.ipk |
| 11:22.31 | mickeyl | (similar) |
| 11:22.48 | mickeyl | it's a dependency of frameworkd, so it should be installed automatically, if you installed from a feed |
| 11:22.54 | Ainulindale | Ah if I didn't type in 0701 instead of 0710 |
| 11:24.27 | *** join/#openmoko AKIIIN-ist (n=KELEBEK@88.250.90.213) |
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| 11:34.57 | emilis_info | hmm... there is no cron in FR?? |
| 11:35.36 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@213.207.219.238) |
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| 11:36.58 | fossi|openmoko | hi |
| 11:37.44 | fossi|openmoko | pidgin is wasting a little much space to be useful |
| 11:39.18 | leinir | Hmm... surely this is something where telepathy would be the solution :) |
| 11:39.19 | anno^da | lol |
| 11:39.49 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: Hmmm I have a bunch of name errors |
| 11:40.00 | *** join/#openmoko bigon (n=bigon@cl-3.bru-01.be.sixxs.net) |
| 11:40.21 | mickeyl | claiming name "foo" not allowed due to system configuratio? |
| 11:40.29 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: and it can't find /dev/input/event5 it seems |
| 11:40.31 | *** join/#openmoko pjj (n=pjj@223-134-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 11:40.37 | mickeyl | that should be ok |
| 11:41.00 | mickeyl | it tries to open all input event nodes and stops once it can't find the first one |
| 11:41.14 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: nope, NameError: global name 'Info' is not defined |
| 11:41.48 | Ainulindale | And the weird thing |
| 11:42.07 | Ainulindale | NoSectionError: No section: 'ophoned' |
| 11:42.24 | mickeyl | hmm, ok slowly |
| 11:42.30 | mickeyl | do you installed an uptodate package? |
| 11:42.34 | Ainulindale | Yep |
| 11:42.36 | mickeyl | ok |
| 11:42.39 | mickeyl | next thing |
| 11:42.42 | mickeyl | inspect /etc/frameworkd.conf |
| 11:42.48 | Ainulindale | Built it .. hmmm.. the day before yesterday I think |
| 11:43.46 | mickeyl | hmm, strange. ophoned is not supposed to read something from the config |
| 11:43.51 | Ainulindale | (nothing special in it it seems) |
| 11:44.07 | Ainulindale | (and no references to ophoned) |
| 11:44.26 | mira | work apt-get install ? |
| 11:44.29 | mickeyl | it's best, if we get the full output |
| 11:44.32 | mickeyl | export FRAMEWORK_DEBUG=1 |
| 11:44.35 | mickeyl | ./frameworkd |
| 11:44.41 | mickeyl | then pastebin the log of that |
| 11:45.11 | Ainulindale | I was just doing that |
| 11:45.20 | Ainulindale | in fact it tries to get the modem type it seems |
| 11:45.25 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 11:45.31 | mickeyl | that sounds like you have a very old frameworkd |
| 11:45.35 | mickeyl | before the renaming of ophoned to ogsmd |
| 11:45.39 | mickeyl | make sure you really have the laste |
| 11:45.40 | mickeyl | t |
| 11:47.04 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E161DA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:47.08 | Ainulindale | http://pastebin.com/m63056317 |
| 11:47.41 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: my OE.mtn file timestamp is from the 12th |
| 11:47.54 | mickeyl | ah |
| 11:48.04 | mickeyl | you are building with the default stamps |
| 11:48.14 | Ainulindale | Default stamps ? |
| 11:48.14 | mickeyl | i said multiple times: |
| 11:48.24 | mickeyl | require conf/distro/include/fso-autorev.inc |
| 11:48.30 | mickeyl | require conf/distro/include/moko-autorev.inc |
| 11:48.33 | mickeyl | if you want to build FSO |
| 11:48.44 | Ainulindale | Oh, didn't see that anywhere. |
| 11:48.56 | Ainulindale | Where am I supposed to put these require ? |
| 11:49.02 | mickeyl | FSO had so many changes i did not have the time to update conf/distro/sane-srcrevs.inc twenty times per day :D |
| 11:49.07 | mickeyl | conf/local.conf |
| 11:49.14 | Ainulindale | ok will do that then |
| 11:49.33 | mickeyl | take care that you really have the latest stuff then. git revisions are not ordered :/ |
| 11:49.48 | mickeyl | lexical comparison can and will lead to false results |
| 11:50.23 | DocCod | For all of you interested in using GPRS and improving GPS performance by using AGPS, take a look at a HowTo I wrote this morning: |
| 11:50.27 | DocCod | http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=295 |
| 11:50.58 | DocCod | Once I am sure it is ok and works for at least some of you, I will put it into the Wiki |
| 11:51.34 | Ainulindale | DocCod: I never once got a fix personally :-/ |
| 11:51.57 | *** join/#openmoko fifafrazer (n=as@0x5738ccd0.rdnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk) |
| 11:52.18 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: ahh end of lunch ... |
| 11:52.52 | mickeyl | after lunch is before lunch ... :D |
| 11:53.29 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: beware you will grow and grow and get "bigger" and "bigger" *FG* |
| 11:54.10 | mickeyl | indeed |
| 11:54.28 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: got still problems keeping my moko in sleep mode ... every signal strengh change will wake it up (:-(( |
| 11:54.35 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 11:55.08 | mickeyl | still |
| 11:55.13 | mickeyl | hmm, let me check something |
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| 11:55.31 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: maybe firmeware problem ? |
| 11:56.24 | `pwgen` | i tried it manually useing mickeyterm and apm -s .. still after 4 or 50 sec it is awakening |
| 11:58.40 | mickeyl | pastebin me your ti_calypso/channel.py |
| 11:58.56 | `pwgen` | mompl |
| 11:59.46 | mickeyl | aaah |
| 11:59.47 | mickeyl | heh |
| 11:59.50 | mickeyl | nevermind |
| 11:59.52 | mickeyl | typo alarm |
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| 12:02.10 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: http://pastebin.com/m361d3675 |
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| 12:03.06 | `pwgen` | i added a second +CNMI=2,1,0,0,0 but that doesnt help |
| 12:04.16 | mickeyl | http://rafb.net/p/gaJgVw33.html |
| 12:04.18 | mickeyl | that will fix it |
| 12:04.34 | mickeyl | forgot some '+'es, so the commands were ignored |
| 12:04.55 | `pwgen` | ah his see |
| 12:05.10 | `pwgen` | damm i was blind ... |
| 12:05.14 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rfc73862ab64e 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO]: fix suspend/resume commands for channel |
| 12:06.33 | Lo-lan-do | Does OM already have some way to synchronise contacts and/or calendars with external sources? |
| 12:08.33 | Lo-lan-do | I did the import from SIM stuff, and I even wrote some Python based on that to edit the data afterwards, but ideally I'd like to sync with my main PC. |
| 12:09.06 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176111002.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:09.59 | leinir | i would love to see openmoko using akonadi for storage of PIM stuff... |
| 12:10.27 | leinir | It'd remove the whole discussion about having to store it in a qtopia specific format, evolution specific, (insert personal favourite here) format... :) |
| 12:10.52 | Lo-lan-do | ...akonadi specific... |
| 12:11.46 | leinir | Lo-lan-do: Akonadi being a method for storage and access, which isn't tied to a specific program, it just seems, well... the way to go :) |
| 12:11.57 | mickeyl | isn't akonadi much too huge? |
| 12:12.09 | leinir | (and don't go "Oh, but it's made by KDE peoples, so it aer ebuls!" ;) ) |
| 12:12.17 | Lo-lan-do | One could argue that eds-dbus is also a method for storage and access. |
| 12:12.21 | leinir | mickeyl: Let me just check the size of it... |
| 12:14.33 | leinir | Hmm... i was under the impression it was library agnostic... |
| 12:14.51 | leinir | it seems it's based on Qt - though i may very well be wrong, and looking at the wrong stuff ;) |
| 12:15.49 | Lo-lan-do | A graphical toolkit used in a storage abstraction? |
| 12:16.31 | leinir | No, Qt isn't a graphical toolkit, you're confusing it with GTK :) |
| 12:16.54 | leinir | Qt has a whole slew of data manipulation features as well, which can be found in QtCore :) |
| 12:17.02 | Lo-lan-do | Ah yes, right. Qt is a whole operating system, along with a programming language. |
| 12:17.35 | leinir | It's a programming environment - a friend of mine described it as .NET without the braindamage ;) |
| 12:17.45 | Lo-lan-do | I had a look at it once and ran away screaming. Not only is it based on C++, but it's not even real C++. |
| 12:17.49 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-58-126.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:18.00 | leinir | (he's a professional .NET developer, which is much fun ;) ) |
| 12:18.01 | *** topic/#openmoko by pjj -> Buy Freerunner at http://openmoko.com/ , or linked distributors. | Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates | Software means it's _NOT_ a stable phone, even for the expert user. This will change as more is developed. | #openmoko-cdevel for community dev efforts | Shipping status updates: http://xkcd.com/281/ | GPS prblem: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_GPS_antenna_repair_SOP | http://digg.com/linux_unix/5 |
| 12:18.15 | *** join/#openmoko MrShlee (i=MrShlee@202-6-129-223.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 12:18.16 | pjj | title to long I guess |
| 12:18.26 | leinir | pjj: Seems that way :) |
| 12:18.36 | *** topic/#openmoko by pjj -> Buy Freerunner at http://openmoko.com/ , or linked distributors. | Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates | Software means it's _NOT_ a stable phone, even for the expert user. This will change as more is developed. | #openmoko-cdevel for community dev efforts | Shipping status updates: http://xkcd.com/281/ | GPS prblem: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_GPS_antenna_repair_SOP |
| 12:18.44 | pjj | http://digg.com/linux_unix/5_real_reasons_to_avoid_iPhone_3G |
| 12:18.49 | pjj | a good article to read :) |
| 12:18.53 | leinir | Lo-lan-do: What's your language of choice, then? :) |
| 12:19.13 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: still same problem ... |
| 12:19.16 | Lo-lan-do | leinir: Why, the best one, of course. |
| 12:19.34 | leinir | Right, LOLCode, should've known ;) |
| 12:19.47 | pjj | it talks about the iPhone why it's bad to buy one, and that's it's more ethical and to protect your freedom if you buy a freerunner |
| 12:19.53 | Lo-lan-do | I.e, shell, Perl, Python, C#, C, C++ even, sometimes even Lisp. Depending on the task at hand. |
| 12:19.59 | mickeyl | `pwgen`: hmm, out of ideas then |
| 12:20.13 | leinir | Lo-lan-do: That is a decidedly more useful language, thanks :) |
| 12:20.38 | leinir | (also, just because Qt is based on C++ doesn't mean you can't write apps in, say, Python :) ) |
| 12:20.41 | *** join/#openmoko rm (n=rm@osbk-4db18b18.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 12:20.46 | Lo-lan-do | adds a sixth reason to buy a Freerunner: "It can't track your position and tell Big Brother about it, since the GPS doesn't work" |
| 12:20.55 | `pwgen` | when i use mickeyterm and send this string, and doing manually apm -s ,it should stay sleeping. i am rught ? |
| 12:21.13 | `pwgen` | s/rught/right/ |
| 12:21.19 | mickeyl | `pwgen`: argh |
| 12:21.20 | mickeyl | no |
| 12:21.28 | mickeyl | sorry, the +'es are completely bogus |
| 12:21.38 | mickeyl | i'm not yet awake enough it seems |
| 12:21.43 | `pwgen` | LOL |
| 12:21.48 | mickeyl | perhaps we should not mix % and + lines |
| 12:21.48 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl (n=bumbl@91-113-62-34.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 12:22.10 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-160-212.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:22.17 | `pwgen` | back from lunch all blood in your stomach |
| 12:22.49 | *** join/#openmoko mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de) |
| 12:23.03 | rm | Who is interested in MokoSec? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021476.html |
| 12:23.55 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-218-123-8.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:24.00 | Ainulindale | Weird, bitbake freezes over illume |
| 12:24.58 | Ainulindale | Oh well found why, svn certificate it seems. |
| 12:25.23 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 12:27.37 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rd9c1243b6642 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: ogsmd: [TI CALYPSO]: revert last change with was completely bogus |
| 12:27.51 | rm | Wieviele schwerwiegende Fehler (GPS-IS-Antenne, Grafik-IS Problem) sind in der aktuellen Schaltungsgestaltung vorhanden? (GTA02) [ How many circuit problems are actually builtin GT02?) |
| 12:28.22 | *** join/#openmoko emacsen (n=serge@pool-141-156-47-15.washdc.btas.verizon.net) |
| 12:28.30 | *** join/#openmoko zAMz (n=chatzill@mue-88-130-37-064.dsl.tropolys.de) |
| 12:28.54 | emacsen | Anyone here using the pure qtopia image? |
| 12:31.16 | leinir | emacsen: Yup :) |
| 12:32.41 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: replaces % with + . same result, after 16 sec 'org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.SignalStrength: 61' awakening |
| 12:33.24 | mickeyl | interesting. this means for some reason it won't suspend the channel for you |
| 12:33.29 | mickeyl | i don't have error checking in the suspend yet |
| 12:33.34 | mickeyl | try the following |
| 12:33.43 | mickeyl | split the combined self.enqueue |
| 12:33.47 | mickeyl | into individual self.enqueue |
| 12:33.49 | mickeyl | for every command |
| 12:33.53 | mickeyl | and see whether that fixes it |
| 12:33.59 | mickeyl | so, instead of : |
| 12:34.06 | mickeyl | +FOO;+BAR;+YO |
| 12:34.07 | mickeyl | you doo |
| 12:34.10 | emacsen | leinir, okay, so since we last spoke, made a phone call? |
| 12:34.13 | mickeyl | self.enqueu("+FOO" |
| 12:34.14 | mickeyl | self.enqueu("+BAR" |
| 12:34.16 | mickeyl | self.enqueu("+YO" |
| 12:34.23 | `pwgen` | copy |
| 12:34.28 | leinir | Aah right, no i've not - lemme do it now :) |
| 12:34.58 | `pwgen` | with +CGREG=0 and not %CGREG=0 |
| 12:34.59 | mjr | DocCod, hey thanks for that gprs/agps writeup :) |
| 12:35.14 | DocCod | mjr: you're welcome |
| 12:35.19 | rm | Marcus Bauer schreibt in der E-Post Liste, dass einige Fehler bekannt waren, aber nicht angegangen wurden. Stimmt das? [Marcus Bauer claims about problems in OpenMoko Development that were known, but not solved, because of disinterest. Is that true?] |
| 12:35.30 | DocCod | mjr: took me 3 days to get it working for myself, so I thought I'd share :) |
| 12:35.35 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: Is there any way to be sure that I have the latest frameworkd version ? |
| 12:36.13 | mickeyl | Ainulindale: check the gitrev with git.freesmartphone.org |
| 12:36.13 | leinir | emacsen: Nope, no sound either way |
| 12:37.10 | emacsen | leinir, okay, at least it's consistent across people |
| 12:37.40 | leinir | i'm trying to send a text... |
| 12:38.33 | leinir | doesn't look like it's going through either |
| 12:38.52 | kW | rm: I'd be interested in MokoSec |
| 12:39.25 | kW | rm: (But I'd call it MokoSecurity for marketing purposes) |
| 12:40.12 | emacsen | leinir, okay, well, pretty useless as a phone I'd say, at least in current state |
| 12:40.20 | kW | rm: specifically, I'd like to run openmoko filesystems over DM-crypt, using an intuitive graphical-stroke password input method to provide the master-password |
| 12:40.50 | leinir | emacsen: Indeed - i hope lpotter might have some input on this "slight" problem ;) |
| 12:41.07 | Lo-lan-do | Is there any game or toy in the repositories to toy with the accelerometers? |
| 12:41.24 | kW | rm: I'm also interested in encryption over GSM, but this would require data calls (or a reverse-GSM-audio codec), as openmoko does not have access to the digital data stream of voice calls |
| 12:42.07 | rm | kW: All right, but I'm only another interested person. Let your wishes _please_ be known at: https://moksec.networld.to/trac/ oropenmoko-devel@lists.openmoko.org . My answer to your questions follow now. |
| 12:42.08 | emacsen | kW, there have been attempts at this in the past |
| 12:42.37 | emacsen | kW, it's my understanding they generally don't go well |
| 12:42.40 | rm | kW: oberhauseralex at networld.to |
| 12:43.26 | kW | rm+emacsen: note that people who are successful to do voice call encryption may die due to "suicide": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron_(hacker) |
| 12:43.39 | rm | kW: Isn't it possible to connect an Fingerprint Reader? Or does this corrupt all security reason'? |
| 12:43.52 | emacsen | kW "Worse case of suicide I've ever seen" |
| 12:43.53 | emacsen | ;) |
| 12:44.23 | rm | kW: Oh yes, that's typical case of "modern freedom" in "Money-World". |
| 12:44.25 | kW | rm: I'd like to boot my openmoko phone as is |
| 12:44.45 | kW | rm: so if my freerunner doesn't come with a fingerprint reader by default, I won't require it |
| 12:44.49 | emacsen | leinir, I'm wondering about the pre-alpha August release |
| 12:45.09 | emacsen | leinir, I found the original software to work... well, sort of sometimes |
| 12:45.12 | leinir | emacsen: That one does sort of work - i know i sent and received texts using it at any rate :) |
| 12:45.27 | emacsen | leinir, I couldn't figure out how to send :) |
| 12:45.39 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g226205039.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:45.40 | emacsen | leinir, the icons confused me |
| 12:45.45 | kW | rm: entering the password should be done using multiple strokes, maybe on a 5*5 raster, resembling a process of painting (but with a certain order) |
| 12:45.47 | emacsen | the whole interface did generally |
| 12:45.56 | emacsen | kW, you mean the key |
| 12:46.09 | kW | emacsen: the password to the key |
| 12:46.21 | kW | emacsen: as the key has fixed length, while the password may have variable length |
| 12:46.21 | rm | kW: I think a most generic approach to encrypted voice-calls (VOIP?) would fit. Is it possible to calle encrypted over IP with e.g. Portable Computers yet? |
| 12:46.32 | leinir | emacsen: Yeah, that's why raster wants to kill ASU when he's done ;) |
| 12:46.51 | kW | rm: the problem is that this rules out encryption over traditional voice calls |
| 12:47.14 | kW | rm: but this may be acceptable in the first place |
| 12:47.20 | mjr | kW, you can't do that anyway |
| 12:47.29 | *** join/#openmoko ayeuu (n=ayeuu@tss37-1-82-228-161-185.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:47.29 | emacsen | leinir, Ah, Raster... mixed feelings there |
| 12:47.30 | *** join/#openmoko paroneayea (n=user@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 12:47.53 | leinir | He'll be reworking it to sit on top of FSO, without the braindamaged "usability" decisions imposed by the project managers :) |
| 12:47.56 | kW | mjr: I mean, it also rules out encryption over traditional GSM CSD calls (connections with a constant bitrate) |
| 12:48.00 | emacsen | but yeah a UI improvement would be... important |
| 12:48.14 | rm | kW: Yes, if no reader is plugged in, you can touch a Number combination perhaps in combination with "voice recognation" of a "secret" (not very loud) spoken word, or sentence ("Sesam, öffne Dich!"). |
| 12:48.22 | emacsen | leinir, I'm a geek, and I found the default UI... confusing |
| 12:48.32 | leinir | emacsen: You're not alone |
| 12:48.38 | mjr | kW, 'kay, yeah, CSD calls you probably want to do without IP... |
| 12:48.44 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@pdpc/supporter/active/bluelightning) |
| 12:48.52 | emacsen | leinir, anyway thanks for confirming the phone situation |
| 12:48.52 | leinir | emacsen: raster's basically just doing as he's told, he's said directly that he will never be using ASU himself ;) |
| 12:48.53 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=tim@p5B24C669.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:49.10 | emacsen | leinir, well what came on the phone isn't ASU |
| 12:49.26 | emacsen | I've yet to see ASU, actually |
| 12:49.46 | kW | rm: but even if a reader is plugged in |
| 12:50.03 | emacsen | leinir, Now I'll have to see if wireless works with asu |
| 12:50.13 | kW | rm: you know, there are countries where people get their fingers chopped of just to activate something which is dependent on fingerprint-readers... |
| 12:50.23 | leinir | ASU is quite funky, really :) |
| 12:51.04 | emacsen | leinir, funky as in "Play the funky music" or funky as in "God, have you throw out the trash in the last month? Your apartment smells funky?" |
| 12:51.33 | leinir | funky as in odd, but with large amounts of nifty :) |
| 12:51.59 | emacsen | leinir, so you went from ASU to qtopia? |
| 12:52.05 | leinir | Yes :) |
| 12:52.17 | emacsen | that good eh? |
| 12:53.03 | leinir | Qtopia? Yeah, i like it a lot - bar the whole phone functionality messup ;) |
| 12:54.01 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182052081.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:54.02 | Kensan | rm: VoIP (especiall RTP) needs too much bandwidth and is only feasable over Wlan. |
| 12:54.08 | rm | kW: Sure, a "cell-Reader" who captures "DNS-Information" would be better. Why not plugging in a "Passwort_Input_Will_Tester" with help of "Electro Myographical Analysis". In next Sentence I get back to point. |
| 12:54.57 | emacsen | leinir, yes and no... I have a few questions/issues. I need to figure out if/how to get opensync for pim and calendar. I need to get wireless working. I need to get, A PHONE (text messaging isn't so important because I'm in the US) and I'd like to learn how to make a pyqt qtopia-compatible application |
| 12:55.00 | kW | kW: ah, you are right... a new input method would be moving the freerunner in a specific sequence... |
| 12:55.01 | Kensan | rm, kW: Smartcard with pin-entry would provide strong crypto: http://www.certgate.com/web_de/produkte/ |
| 12:55.05 | rm | kW: I think most important will be a "simple and quick" SMS-Crypter and SMS-Decrypter as implented in Programs. |
| 12:56.13 | kW | rm: yes, SMS-encryption is a good thing to start... we should implement compression, too, and settle on a standard though, because else we would fractionate the SMS encryption landscape |
| 12:56.29 | kW | rm: SMS-encryption should be based in public keys known for the particular recipient |
| 12:56.33 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: (:-(( doesnt help , |
| 12:56.46 | kW | rm: SMS-encryption should be based on a public key known for the particular recipient |
| 12:57.25 | kW | Kensan: does this help? does the freerunner have a smartcard-reader (apart from the SIM-card reader)? |
| 12:58.04 | kW | Kensan: also consider the threat model: if someone can steal your phone, then someone may steal your smartcard (which you carry with you), too |
| 12:58.07 | rm | kW: good Idea with Moving (using the acceloromators). |
| 12:58.13 | Kensan | kW: the URL i posted is a Smartcard in microSD format. So you could put it in the microSD slot of the freerunner. |
| 12:58.45 | mickeyl | `pwgen`: ok, then the only fix for now is to disable %CSQ= in the first place |
| 12:58.51 | kW | Kensan: but if someone steals your phone, then the thief also steals your smartcard which is plugged into the phone... |
| 12:59.00 | mickeyl | i will do some tests towards the 2nd half of the week when we're in release mode again |
| 12:59.14 | Kensan | kW: ? If he has my smartcard and does not know the pin I am fairly certain he can not access any data I have properly protected with the SC. |
| 12:59.36 | rm | Kensan: I never heard about this "Smartcard". Perhaps you could explain an example (in GTA02) ? |
| 12:59.53 | kW | Kensan: I see, you take the smartcard as a storage for a longer key if we just want to employ a short PIN |
| 13:00.12 | Kensan | rm: take your credit card of your banking account. It's basicaly the same level of security. |
| 13:00.19 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=broedje@92.116.242.155) |
| 13:00.28 | kW | Kensan: I have to check whether smartcards are that uncrackable that they never reveal an encryption key |
| 13:00.47 | Kensan | kW: the smartcard does the crypto operations, the keys do not leave the smartcard. It is only unlocked if you enter the pin. |
| 13:00.59 | leinir | emacsen: i keep forgetting how unimportant texting is in the US... while here it's alpha and omega :) |
| 13:01.27 | Kensan | kW: I know a bit about smartcards and most of them are secure. |
| 13:01.28 | kW | Kensan: doesn't work for dm-crypt of all the openmoko block devices though, in this case, the key has to be in RAM |
| 13:01.43 | Kensan | kW: otherwise banks would not use them in that way. |
| 13:02.05 | kW | Kensan: even if you have a scanning tunneling microscope? |
| 13:02.19 | kW | Kensan: banks use many silly insecure technology... like DES |
| 13:02.48 | Kensan | kW: you can store small amount of data in the protected data "space" of the smartcard. This means you could put your symmetric key on the SC as "data blob" which can only be gotten form the smartcard if you enter the pin. |
| 13:02.48 | rm | kW: I need some time to answer to your sentences. I have heard that A. Merkel communicates through SMS. Tough it should be in interest of "official correspondence" not to be "with-readen by other "Security-Services"). Aren't there already (prooven) Programs, that could crypt, compress and decrypt Digits (160) in a "prooven" secure way? |
| 13:02.51 | *** join/#openmoko crib (n=chris@port-195-158-167-6.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 13:02.53 | kW | Kensan: and re-using PINs all the time for POS-transactions (while surveillance cameras watch the customers type in the PINs) is insecure, too... |
| 13:03.25 | Kensan | kW: it depends on what assurance level your SC provides. |
| 13:03.30 | kW | rm: I'm not sure whether there is already SMS encryption... but if there is, we should stay compatible |
| 13:03.39 | kW | Kensan: hehe |
| 13:03.50 | zash | sms encryption is useless |
| 13:03.57 | kW | zash: because? |
| 13:03.59 | Kensan | kW: reusing insecure pins is not a shortcoming of smartcards. it's a user issue. |
| 13:04.04 | rm | zash: Why? |
| 13:04.06 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=kvirc@211.84-49-138.nextgentel.com) |
| 13:04.16 | tunys | rm, do you have a friend whose nick is -rf? |
| 13:04.30 | kW | Kensan: it's a bank's issue... common bank cards force you to re-use PINs |
| 13:04.35 | emacsen | leinir, yeah, well it's really expensive here |
| 13:04.46 | zash | a SMS is max 140 bytes, and costs a lot |
| 13:05.02 | leinir | Yeah, i remember - you even pay to bloody well *receive* the things, it's in-bleeding-sane |
| 13:05.02 | Kensan | kW: ? What kind of banks are you dealing with? ;) |
| 13:05.05 | kW | zash: this doesn't mean that people are not using SMS like mad |
| 13:05.06 | zash | its far better to just dump the data over gprs, and cheaper |
| 13:05.19 | kW | Kensan: banks which belong to the VISAplus network |
| 13:05.25 | kW | (that is, in essence, all banks) |
| 13:05.32 | Lo-lan-do | Where can I find the sources for openmoko-contacts2? |
| 13:05.52 | tunys | Hey, i have a question about the contacts app |
| 13:05.59 | kW | zash: that's worth considering |
| 13:06.11 | tunys | does it store contacts in a txt file or a db? |
| 13:06.20 | Lo-lan-do | tunys: eds db, apparently |
| 13:06.28 | tunys | oic |
| 13:06.42 | zash | kW: personaly, i would like XMPP over GPRS + SSL |
| 13:06.57 | kW | rm: maybe we should provide "fakeSMS" as such: if we know that the recipient can receive encrypted SMS messages, then we conclude that the recipient is reachable by GRPS too, and deliver encrypted SMS messages by GRPS, while we deliver unencrypted SMS messages by SMS |
| 13:07.11 | kW | zash: then you use ordinary Jabber ;-) |
| 13:07.18 | zash | kW: yes |
| 13:07.38 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e44b173.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 13:08.05 | rm | kW: The public and private key standard (I know from GnuPG) is surely one interesting security option. I personally prefer changing keys _and_ changing Encryption Methods. That at first someone tells the Receiver the Method and then he could send the SMS. For Example: "Starting IP-connected computer over GSM-SMS with Encryption Method first synchronised by Sender(Mobil) and Receiver(Station) |
| 13:08.21 | kW | zash: mhh... but it needs to look like SMS... and: your operator actually needs to support you being silent for a long time without charging you excessive amounts of money |
| 13:08.45 | SpeedEvil | rm: you're missing the key-sharing step, which is complex. |
| 13:09.18 | kW | rm: yes, sure... before encrypting, the encryption method and the receiver's public key needs to be established for the sender |
| 13:09.19 | zash | kW: yeah, the wakeup from gsm would be nice |
| 13:10.39 | kW | zash: maybe we can use USSD for that |
| 13:10.41 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: it seems working ( better , its awakening now when the modem lost the network ) |
| 13:10.51 | zash | kW: and what is that? |
| 13:10.58 | SpeedEvil | kW: USSD is horribly expensive in some cases |
| 13:11.13 | kW | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSD |
| 13:11.16 | *** join/#openmoko tschaka (n=tschaka@p5B0EB687.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:11.35 | kW | SpeedEvil: could be, that's why "maybe" ;-) |
| 13:11.37 | SpeedEvil | Oh |
| 13:11.46 | SpeedEvil | USSD is network driven only |
| 13:11.51 | SpeedEvil | You can't send over it. |
| 13:11.56 | SpeedEvil | I thought you meant CSD |
| 13:12.30 | zash | what about a gsm or landline on a jabber server that can call 1 signal to a phone and then hangs up |
| 13:12.39 | Ainulindale | Does anybody know what I'm suppose to delete to force bitbake to actually refetch the sources of a git repo ? |
| 13:12.46 | zash | at least here, that wont cost anything |
| 13:12.48 | kW | zash: good idea |
| 13:13.07 | kW | zash: we design a "go online" notification service |
| 13:13.12 | SpeedEvil | CSD is expensive annoyingly. |
| 13:13.20 | SpeedEvil | Dataq phone-phone service |
| 13:13.24 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: correction not sleeping longer than 4 - 60 secs |
| 13:13.27 | kW | which has some well known MSISDNs (phone numbers) |
| 13:13.44 | kW | in case a call comes from these phone numbers, the phone does not answer |
| 13:13.54 | kW | but rejects |
| 13:14.00 | mickeyl | `pwgen`: yeah, seems something broke since milestone1 |
| 13:14.02 | zash | and then checks IM and/or mail |
| 13:14.09 | kW | zash: yes |
| 13:14.30 | CIA-42 | openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r4cda24e6b765 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb: [openmoko-asu-feed] Add task-openmoko-asu-feed.bb |
| 13:14.37 | *** join/#openmoko nik11 (n=nik11@2a01:e35:2e44:eb50:21f:5bff:fef4:86c7) |
| 13:15.06 | kW | zash: I could run such a service, I have some ISDN cards on my servers |
| 13:15.39 | kW | zash: however, there is a risk for the operator of such a service that actually a connection gets established |
| 13:15.39 | rm | tunys: No it are the First Digits of my Pre- and Pastname. |
| 13:16.18 | tunys | Ah |
| 13:16.30 | nik11 | hi here |
| 13:17.27 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: found a typo ,, still testing |
| 13:19.49 | *** join/#openmoko Nanotron (n=Nanotron@p54AE1BC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:21.08 | kW | zash: by the way: there needs to be a fallback service in case the receiver of an SMS message has put the SIM card into a non-openmoko phone |
| 13:21.23 | rm | kW: I think Encryption is important for all "sended Text". Aren't they Java Virtual Machines on other phones, so that interested people can ("perhaps", "I don't know how") use a Java-Emulated Programm for Encrypting, Compressioning and En-Compressioning and Decrypting their SMS? How little can 160 Digits be "encrypted"? |
| 13:22.00 | kW | rm: I think that using Java or not is not important for how to implement encryption |
| 13:22.56 | kW | rm: and the 160 digits limit is somewhat challenging because we have very little space to send a nonce or a symmetric key... so maybe we use full asymmetric encryption without symmetric keys |
| 13:23.31 | kW | rm: SMS payload is actually just 140 bytes |
| 13:23.45 | *** join/#openmoko cnwdup (n=harlekin@hnvr-4dbd6d2f.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 13:24.02 | zash | rm: try generating 160 chars of lorem ipsum, encrypt it with something and compress it |
| 13:24.04 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: just checking, but I'm not supposed to have ophoned and ogsmd at the same time right ? |
| 13:24.29 | zash | i did some test a while ago and got 5 times the original size |
| 13:24.30 | rm | SpeedEvil: Does Key-Sharing not only mean, that both Communicators have the keys copied in their "RAM" ? |
| 13:24.34 | zash | (gnupg) |
| 13:24.52 | Kensan | kW: why not use sms as a "data channel" and model a protocol on top of that, that takes care of encryption/compression, fragmentation etc.? |
| 13:25.00 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: my channel.conf http://pastebin.com/m2568d1c5 |
| 13:26.05 | Kensan | kW: like setting the MTU to 140 bytes or so ;) |
| 13:26.21 | zash | Kensan: ehm, over $800 per MB? |
| 13:26.22 | kW | Kensan: in some regions of the world, people pay about 1250â¬/MB when using SMS |
| 13:26.56 | zash | Kensan: and gprs is like $ 2.5 |
| 13:27.07 | Kensan | kW: of course you would only use it for low bandwidth stuff, but that's basically what you are talking about. |
| 13:27.37 | Kensan | kW, zash: you are both talking about adding services to sms and using sms as the basic communication protocol. |
| 13:27.39 | kW | Kensan: however, one could model each pair of sender-receiver as _one_ long term (never breaking) connection, where each packet is of 140 bytes |
| 13:27.45 | *** join/#openmoko blan (n=blan@dslb-088-067-094-043.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:27.47 | `pwgen` | Kensan: whats about the idea useing hamradio to encode the init data |
| 13:28.21 | zash | Kensan: didnt you say that? |
| 13:28.32 | kW | Kensan: that is, one SMS per communication endpoint to setup the connection and then just use sequence numbers (and hope that there is zero packet loss) |
| 13:28.37 | rm | kW: I meant manually synchronised "Encryption Methods". That there is a little bit flexibility in the "Encryption Method". "Ones "GnuPG", then "Own-Programmed-Encryption", and so on. Perhaps couppled with "Moon-Stand, or ... "Weather Forecast" for my Region. |
| 13:28.55 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@220-136-176-197.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 13:29.08 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: 5 min still sleeping !!! |
| 13:29.17 | Kensan | zash: yes, I did say that. But I merely put your and kW's discussion in the context of layered (network) protocols. |
| 13:29.21 | kW | rm: I don't think that GnuPG is optimized for size|minimum amount of packets |
| 13:29.23 | mickeyl | Ainulindale: ophoned is something on top of gsmd. it doesn't do harm atm. |
| 13:29.27 | mickeyl | ogsmd, that is |
| 13:29.43 | Ainulindale | Ok, I have it, so I guess it's right. |
| 13:30.07 | Ainulindale | My wrapper doesn't work but that's another problem |
| 13:30.08 | mickeyl | `pwgen`: i see. seems that we need to issue the commands one-by-one then. |
| 13:30.09 | Kensan | kW: how reliable is SMS? The operator will cache SMS if they cannot be delivered, right? |
| 13:30.09 | mickeyl | strange |
| 13:30.18 | kW | Kensan: yes, and no |
| 13:30.35 | kW | Kensan: yes, operators cache SMS messages, no, they do not guarantee delivery |
| 13:30.42 | Kensan | kW: yeah there's some timeout but for all practical purposes that should work no? |
| 13:30.44 | *** part/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182052081.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:30.50 | kW | Kensan: and no, they do not send you non-delivery notifications |
| 13:31.06 | kW | Kensan: no, I know some operators who do reorder messages |
| 13:31.22 | kW | Kensan: that is, if a message is not delivered promptly, it will delivered after exactly 24 hours |
| 13:31.30 | Kensan | kW: ic. So some sort of sequence numbering etc would be needed. |
| 13:31.40 | zash | are we talking about encryption over sms? |
| 13:31.42 | kW | Kensan: all messages inbetween have a "future" sequence number |
| 13:32.03 | kW | Kensan: however, there are stream ciphers which do not need ordering of packets AFAIK |
| 13:32.26 | Kensan | kW: you could use a timeout. Something like if SMS1 has More-fragments set then another one should arrive within T minutes. |
| 13:33.02 | *** join/#openmoko WielkiTost (n=Wielki@dga82.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 13:33.06 | Kensan | kW: well it depends what kind of cipher you want to use. |
| 13:33.16 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@90-227-33-55-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 13:33.42 | Kensan | kW: AES in Countermode might be an option. |
| 13:33.50 | kW | Kensan: yes... but: each reply from receiver to sender costs more money, too |
| 13:34.33 | *** join/#openmoko gweeper (n=justin@zoski.net) |
| 13:34.52 | Kensan | kW: yes, thats true. But loss or non-delivery of SMS is tricky I guess. |
| 13:34.54 | kW | Kensan: I think if stream ciphers like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salsa20 are used, then reordering becomes a non-issue |
| 13:35.02 | kW | and (loss, too) |
| 13:35.40 | kW | Kensan: "This gives Salsa20 the unusual advantage that the user can efficiently seek to any position in the output stream." |
| 13:35.43 | zash | but, gprs and ssl? |
| 13:35.44 | Kensan | kW: yes, it's not that much of a problem, but what does it mean for the "application" side? If one packet is missing, what do I do with the data I have? |
| 13:35.53 | Kensan | kW: Aes CTR has the same property |
| 13:35.58 | kW | Kensan: however, we need to evaluate the strength of Salsa20 first |
| 13:36.01 | kW | Kensan: ah :-) |
| 13:36.16 | kW | Kensan: each packet is a normal SMS message |
| 13:36.37 | kW | Kensan: so if a packet did not arrive, then it's payload SMS message did not arrive |
| 13:36.46 | Kensan | zash: yes, it is more fitting to do general purpose data transmission over gprs. an it actually is a no brainer over GPRS since you can do full-blown ip. |
| 13:37.17 | Kensan | kW: yes, so how do you recover? or do you abort? |
| 13:37.32 | zash | the only advantage that sms has is the wakeup |
| 13:37.33 | kW | Kensan: there is no need to recover, the message just did not arrive |
| 13:37.41 | Kensan | kW: notify the sender, that soem data is missing or notify the user that he should try to find a wlan hotspot? ;) |
| 13:37.45 | kW | Kensan: (optionally you can tell the user that a message is missing) |
| 13:38.10 | *** join/#openmoko sandman__ (n=willis@c-71-62-234-171.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 13:38.28 | Kensan | kW: so we would be stuck with the delivery guarantees of "normal" SMS. |
| 13:38.33 | kW | Kensan: that's another idea actually, to store all sent SMS messages such that they can be sent _a second time_ over encrypted Jabber (once the sender has a cheap internet connection) |
| 13:39.03 | `pwgen` | mickeyl: and awakening on phone call YUHU |
| 13:39.19 | kW | Kensan: this can be enhanced the following way: always prefer encrypted SMS over encrypted Jabber, if the receiver is offline however, use encrypted SMS over SMS |
| 13:39.24 | rm | kW: I meant Java-Using as an Fallback_Catch_Method on _other Phones_ than Neo-Compatible ones. |
| 13:39.39 | kW | rm: I see |
| 13:39.49 | Kensan | kW: having messaging integrated in one application is a big plus since the phone could determine the best way to send them (if wlan is available try jabber or email, if not try gprs with jabber & email, if not try sms etc.) |
| 13:39.50 | zash | my phone does not have java |
| 13:39.51 | kW | rm: that's why we should design, establish a standard and then stick to it |
| 13:40.12 | kW | Kensan: hehe |
| 13:40.30 | Kensan | rm: I thought you do not have access to SMS on java phones |
| 13:40.42 | Kensan | rm: at least not on most phones. |
| 13:40.42 | kW | Kensan: depends on the phone AFAIK |
| 13:41.30 | rm | kW: I have no Idea with symmetric or asymmetric Keys. I am only a 'Laie'. |
| 13:42.16 | kW | rm: no worries :-) |
| 13:42.26 | rm | kW: Then, how many 'Information' can be encrypted in 140 bytes? |
| 13:42.36 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182052081.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:42.37 | SpeedEvil | rm: 140 bytes worth |
| 13:42.44 | SpeedEvil | rm: as much as in a normal SMS |
| 13:43.07 | rm | zash: I will try it, but this needs time. |
| 13:43.19 | Kensan | rm: compression igets interesting when you send multiple sms. |
| 13:44.21 | kW | rm: plus overhead... that is a nonce, a counter, and so on... |
| 13:44.26 | Kensan | rm: doing proper key establishment/agreement should not be underestimated. or you simply use the gpg/pgp infrastructure |
| 13:44.34 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 13:44.55 | kW | rm: that overhead can quickly become 8 bytes or 16 bytes |
| 13:45.33 | kW | Kensan: we should use a method which sets up a secure communication pair using not more than two SMS messages |
| 13:45.55 | rm | zash: 160 Digits can, with your Methods, store 800 'encrypted digits'? |
| 13:46.06 | kW | Kensan: that basically means that all the information regarding the public key should fit into a SMS... however, a 1024 bit public key already needs 128 bytes... |
| 13:47.38 | Kensan | kW: it would be easier if we say: you need to exchange your public keys before you can use encrypted sms or something along the lines. |
| 13:48.06 | kW | Kensan: that's impractical |
| 13:48.08 | zash | rm: what now? |
| 13:48.28 | kW | Kensan: this is why internet encryption is not widespread... |
| 13:48.38 | zash | rm: i meant that 160 characters became something like 160*5 bytes when encrypted |
| 13:48.42 | zash | rm: with gpg |
| 13:49.29 | zash | rm: but there is probably better suited chiphers |
| 13:49.35 | Kensan | kW: it is, but if you take the approach I briefly stated above (one big "messaging" app) then the keys are already there. |
| 13:50.14 | kW | Kensan: you cannot define the problem away... more obstacles -> less users |
| 13:50.27 | kW | by the way... even 1024 bits key size is too small nowadays |
| 13:50.40 | kW | (at least for RSA and Diffie-Hellman) |
| 13:50.44 | rm | kW: Does the people in 'some regions of the world' also have gold 'Kitchen-Plates' in Front of their "Home-Calculators"? I would assume 'Dubai' or something like that for such a Region. Perhaps they their have also such an Ammount/MiB? |
| 13:51.30 | kW | rm: how much do you pay per SMS message? |
| 13:51.36 | Kensan | kW: yes but we are talking about a pretty specific application, it will never be a "general purpose" protocol. So considering the circumstances one could make that compromise |
| 13:52.52 | kW | Kensan: the more specific the application, the less users will we have anyways... that means the more specific the application, the more specific to the uses (e.g. encrypted SMS over SMS) it should be |
| 13:53.22 | Kensan | kW: well what's your target audience? |
| 13:53.47 | rm | kW: The long-term connection is not a that bad idea. But it should be indexed with different "Encryption_Methods" for every SMS. |
| 13:54.31 | rm | kW: Like a Pin/TAN List in Banking, a SMS_Index_Number/Encryption_Method List. |
| 13:54.51 | kW | Kensan: the target audience is people who want to use SMS as normal (that is as mad as normal), just encrypted |
| 13:54.55 | Kensan | kW: my point is: if you have someone that cares about encrypting his sms, then I imagine that person accepts that there are some constraints under which that can work. Copying a public key to your freeruner is not that much work. especially when you could directly do that via wlan from a keyserver. |
| 13:55.06 | Kensan | kW: is. |
| 13:55.09 | Kensan | kW: ic. |
| 13:55.11 | kW | Kensan: no, encryption has to be plug and play in order to work |
| 13:55.35 | kW | Kensan: else only a minority will use it and eventually it will be outlawed, because everybody who uses encrypted is a terrorist |
| 13:55.36 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: ping |
| 13:55.40 | kW | Kensan: else only a minority will use it and eventually it will be outlawed, because everybody who uses encryption is a terrorist |
| 13:56.04 | Kensan | kW: I just don't see that, because openmoko phones that support this kind of sms encryption are a marginal number. So all your friends will have "normal" phones that cannot decrypt your sms. |
| 13:56.17 | kW | Kensan: then this has to change |
| 13:56.20 | rm | kW: So that the "Short-Interesting" Information Word, can be protected in "Sentence" for long-Term Connection with changing "Encryption Methods". |
| 13:56.34 | kW | Kensan: that's why rm talked about implementing SMS encryption on different platforms |
| 13:56.44 | Kensan | kW: oh ok. so we are not talking about a technical issue. |
| 13:57.04 | kW | Kensan: no, we talk about (political) economics here ;-) |
| 13:57.20 | *** join/#openmoko drscream (n=drscream@gw.doc.fruky.net) |
| 13:57.28 | Kensan | kW: well see, I missed that part at the beginning. I see your plan now. |
| 13:57.40 | kW | rm: I don't get you, do you want to switch encryption methods as a means to switch encryption keys? |
| 13:57.49 | Kensan | I for one welcome our new sms encrypting overl... oh, wrong forum. |
| 13:59.09 | kW | ;-) |
| 13:59.39 | Tanuva | arrrgh python-pygtk is available for the neo, but no python-pyqt :/ |
| 13:59.40 | Kensan | kW: unfortunately, I believe until you reach your goal, SMS will be obsolete. |
| 13:59.57 | kW | Kensan: you are a technician, I suppose... |
| 14:00.07 | kW | Kensan: if you were an economist, you wouldn't think so ;-) |
| 14:00.44 | kW | Kensan: just because GPRS and WLAN are technically superior, it does not mean that people will stop using SMS |
| 14:01.09 | Kensan | kW: yes, I am an engineer ;) |
| 14:01.10 | kW | Kensan: there are countries where people use SMS like mad, sending 30 messages a day |
| 14:01.24 | Chocky | like the United States? :p |
| 14:01.38 | *** join/#openmoko bantu (n=bantu@phpbb/modifications/bantu) |
| 14:01.38 | kW | Chocky: actually, the US has been a latecomer in SMS uptake |
| 14:01.40 | Chocky | and the telcos are laughing all the way to the bank |
| 14:01.54 | Chocky | I know, but I know such people |
| 14:02.05 | kW | Chocky: yes, they are laughing... |
| 14:02.09 | Kensan | kW: well that's basically everywhere. But I believe the habit of using the mobile phone will drastically change in the coming years. As I mentioned: one will not care over which medium you send the message, you just want to send a message. |
| 14:02.27 | Chocky | and yes, SMS costs about 1000 times what it should |
| 14:02.50 | Chocky | given that email is close to free |
| 14:02.53 | Kensan | Chocky, that's why I think it will be gone sooner than later. |
| 14:03.24 | Chocky | then we'll have more spams than ever over SMS |
| 14:03.41 | kW | Kensan: that habit may change for the "avantgarde" users, but the wide body of non-technical users are just learning how to use SMS... they won't learn some other technology else just because it is available and more efficient |
| 14:04.00 | Kensan | kW: just learning? |
| 14:04.22 | Kensan | kW: sms is the backend. Entering messages into your phone, that's what people have learned. |
| 14:04.24 | kW | Kensan: people need to learn the concept of what an SMS message is... |
| 14:04.40 | Kensan | kW: no they don't care. |
| 14:04.42 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@pD95FE30D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:04.49 | Kensan | kW: and neither should they. |
| 14:05.13 | kW | Kensan: yes, and now confront them "Er... You have to install my public key into your phone... download it here, bring it onto this little microSD-card... plug it in... chose my key..." |
| 14:05.16 | Kensan | kW: people want to tell their friends something they don't want to send an SMS. |
| 14:05.44 | kW | Kensan: you get now why SMS encryption needs to be as seamless as possible? ;-) |
| 14:05.48 | Kensan | kW: that's why I said the audience for such an application is very small. |
| 14:06.29 | Chocky | so, the wiki is hopelessly unclear on this, but if I plug FR and a device into a hub, I can access the device via FR. it will draw power from FR of course. |
| 14:06.31 | kW | Kensan: that's why I say whe must optimize the application (+its ecosystem) such that the audience becomes as large as possible |
| 14:06.47 | Kensan | kW: that's why I say you are betting on a dying horse ;) |
| 14:06.48 | kW | Kensan: you know the network effect: the use of a network of n nodes is proportional to n²... |
| 14:07.02 | vpv | any qtopia-on-sd-card users here? how do I get the root filesystem as tarball or folder to copy to the sd card? |
| 14:07.23 | vpv | do I need to do as instructed here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image#Mounting_the_JFFS2_image_on_a_loop_back_.28MTD_RAM.29_device |
| 14:07.27 | kW | Kensan: for the small (technically advanced) audience maybe, but not for the bulk audience |
| 14:07.28 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 14:07.54 | Chocky | vpv: I think the Debian instructions will be very similar: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian |
| 14:08.11 | Kensan | kW: well, there we disagree :) |
| 14:08.38 | *** join/#openmoko mirezwer (n=mirezwer@104-174-222-85.adsl.verat.net) |
| 14:09.04 | kW | Kensan: this may not be a practical problem if we build a system which caters for both the technical advanced and the bulk users |
| 14:09.31 | Ainulindale | Does somebody know if there's a debug mode for old openmoko-* packages ? |
| 14:09.35 | Ainulindale | (dialer for example) |
| 14:10.13 | *** join/#openmoko MrShlee (i=MrShlee@202-6-129-17.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 14:10.36 | Kensan | kW: well then the first and foremost problem is if you have access to SMS on *most* phones. |
| 14:10.48 | Kensan | kW: be it via Java or whatnot. |
| 14:10.55 | Chocky | moo. |
| 14:11.10 | vpv | Chocky: I would still need the rootfs in a tarball (not .jffs2), which is what I'm looking for... |
| 14:11.23 | kW | Kensan: Java, Symbian, Windows Mobile, Openmoko... |
| 14:11.38 | kW | I forgot the iphone, of course... |
| 14:11.39 | *** part/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@220-136-176-197.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 14:11.59 | Kensan | kW: if you can't provide a solution for *most* phones then it's dead in the water. |
| 14:12.01 | dimko | hi guys |
| 14:12.10 | Kensan | kW: or reduced to the technical users |
| 14:12.11 | dimko | has tryed different distributions already |
| 14:12.13 | kW | Kensan: that's what I'm saying |
| 14:12.32 | dimko | did anyone try gps yet? |
| 14:12.47 | dimko | no matter what i do - i can't make it work... |
| 14:12.59 | Tanuva | dimko: search the community-ml archives ;) |
| 14:13.04 | Chocky | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080712/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080712-om-gta02.rootfs.tar.gz |
| 14:13.06 | Tanuva | youll find hundreds of mails |
| 14:13.39 | Chocky | Tanuva: and much confusion. The page on the wiki is best |
| 14:14.05 | Chocky | FWIW, I haven't make it work yet either |
| 14:14.06 | Tanuva | hm.. right. |
| 14:14.33 | dimko | just curious, are there any developers on this channel? |
| 14:14.54 | Chocky | yes, but it's Sunday 7am in California :p |
| 14:15.23 | Tanuva | 16:15/4:15pm in germany :P |
| 14:15.25 | Kensan | kW: well then I wish you good luck with that project. :) |
| 14:17.27 | kW | Kensan: thank you... :-) I'll have to do other stuff and get a proper Freerunner (without hardware (GPS) bugs) first... ;-) |
| 14:18.42 | Kensan | kW: you mentioned dm-crypt. how about that project? |
| 14:19.03 | Kensan | kW: btw, are you subscribed to the mokosec-ml? |
| 14:19.30 | kW | Kensan: I'm subscribed now |
| 14:20.17 | Kensan | kW: ic, I sent a mail their earlier today with my ramblings about "GSM-Call" encryption. maybe you want to take a look in the archives... |
| 14:20.25 | kW | Kensan: I'll tackle dm-crypt first, because I think it is important to get this into mainstream and I like to store sensitive data (e.g. passwords) on my phone without worrying that this data leaks somewhere |
| 14:21.00 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: Good news, openmoko-dialer calls our adapter. Bad news it crashes after. |
| 14:21.23 | Kensan | kW: sounds good. Maybe we can do it in a way that using the before mentioned microSD smartcard for key storage is painless and easy to use. |
| 14:22.15 | *** join/#openmoko avoine (n=avoine@pdpc/supporter/active/avoine) |
| 14:22.23 | mickeyl | Ainulindale: progress :) |
| 14:22.41 | kW | Kensan: I'd like to use the microSD slot for extended storage (e.g. music)... so I'd like to develop a version which survives without using the microSD slot |
| 14:22.54 | kW | (this does not preclude storing keys in a microSD smartcard, of course) |
| 14:22.55 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: yep, but I was just looking for a way to debug dialer, I suppose I have to build it and install the dbg version ? |
| 14:23.34 | Kensan | kW: yes I was more saying, that the solution should work easily in all cases. |
| 14:24.01 | Kensan | kW: the microSD smartcard has 512 Meg too. not much but still |
| 14:25.13 | kW | Kensan: a combined smartcard+storage card would be interesting... |
| 14:25.17 | mickeyl | Ainulindale: should be simpler. usually OE emist a -dbg package containing the debug symbols for every package. so, install a few debug symbol packages and launch dgb |
| 14:25.31 | kW | or even TCPA in freerunner for that purpose (I know some people would object...) |
| 14:25.33 | Kensan | kW: that's what it is. |
| 14:25.42 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: that was my guess, so I just have to wait until bitbake openmoko-dialer ends I guess |
| 14:26.00 | kW | Kensan: I mean with 8GiB |
| 14:26.09 | Kensan | kW: one can do a lot with a real smartcard on the freerunner ;) |
| 14:26.15 | Kensan | kW: yeah 512 is a bit low. |
| 14:26.38 | Kensan | kW: I imagine space is tight ;) microSD is crazy small... |
| 14:31.21 | Tanuva | is there somewhere documentation on python-netclient? Google isnt helpful >.< |
| 14:33.48 | rm | zash: my old phone also has no Java. But then these phones are not able (source-closed) to receive or send enrypted SMS or Decrypt SMS. As most (all?) Phones are (Source-closed) they cant take part of Encryption (e.g. of SMS), or? |
| 14:41.46 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (n=fsteinel@pD9FBBEF4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:42.13 | Chocky | alright. Debian on my FR. gotta be done. |
| 14:43.39 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrod (n=Crfrod@208.65.61.50) |
| 14:44.16 | Lo-lan-do | Yeah. Get Josm running on it too, and the crowd will love you. |
| 14:44.20 | rm | kW: 0,19 Euro / SMS to other Mobile-Phone-Services, 0,05 Euro / SMS to T-Mobil. |
| 14:45.15 | Chocky | = rip off :p |
| 14:45.54 | Ainulindale | Hmpf. Can't build openmoko-dialer, it seems I can't build openmoko-libs, won't find the sources, even on the svn. |
| 14:46.55 | leinir | Hmm... lemme just check my prices... |
| 14:47.16 | rm | kW: I also would support the generic approach. Like HTTP-Sec."SMS-Sec." |
| 14:48.00 | rm | kW: Yes. There should really be an open Standard for Encryption of SMS. |
| 14:48.15 | *** join/#openmoko ecstazie (n=alex@host.213.240.207.105.customers.net-surf.net) |
| 14:48.20 | leinir | DKK 0.10 per SMS, DKK 0.01 per minute talk, DKK 1.00 per MB data traffic, DKK 1.00 per MMS |
| 14:48.25 | *** part/#openmoko ecstazie (n=alex@host.213.240.207.105.customers.net-surf.net) |
| 14:48.34 | leinir | and in EUR, lessee... |
| 14:49.06 | *** join/#openmoko pvborza (n=paul@79.119.152.70) |
| 14:49.22 | *** join/#openmoko sintuar (n=daniel@ip-141-31-188-91.nat.selfnet.de) |
| 14:49.39 | sintuar | hello |
| 14:49.52 | kW | rm: this is till 312.5â¬/MB to T-Mobil |
| 14:50.01 | leinir | EUR 0.0134 per SMS, EUR 0.0013 per minute talk, 0.1344 per MB data traffic, 0.1344 per MMS |
| 14:50.08 | Ainulindale | Is there a feed where I could get the dbg version of any package ? |
| 14:50.20 | leinir | Prepaid plan with no minimum spend :) |
| 14:50.25 | kW | leinir: looks like data traffic is the cheapest |
| 14:50.33 | sintuar | I am thinking about buying this phone, and I am interested in the gps feature, but I hav eno clear if there is any navigation program and maps |
| 14:50.42 | leinir | kW: Yup :) |
| 14:50.43 | Chocky | there are |
| 14:50.44 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 14:51.20 | sintuar | Chocky, and where can they be found? |
| 14:51.22 | rm | kW: If it is possible, then every Message is encrypted with an other Encryption Method following a Index on a List, that was before "manually" created. |
| 14:51.30 | Chocky | in the packages :p |
| 14:51.35 | Chocky | took at tangogps |
| 14:51.55 | Chocky | and for GPS on the wiki |
| 14:52.34 | sintuar | I will have a look at it... I didn't know there were free maps :) |
| 14:52.47 | kW | rm: why should this be? |
| 14:53.12 | kW | leinir: what is the latency of data traffic? |
| 14:53.37 | leinir | i don't know, i've never used it i'm afraid :) |
| 14:54.03 | kW | leinir: it looks like voice over data seems to be the cheapest, too |
| 14:54.21 | kW | leinir: and thus encrypted voice over data would not only be secure, but also cheaper |
| 14:54.39 | leinir | *nods* Bibob's data traffic is supposedly quite good, yeah :) |
| 14:55.22 | Dave | leiir! |
| 14:56.07 | leinir | curtsies to Dave :) |
| 14:56.14 | Chocky | h5s Dave |
| 14:56.33 | Dave | o/^ |
| 14:56.56 | Chocky | Dave: FR -> USB hub -> USB device will let me access device from FR, right? |
| 14:57.26 | Ainulindale | Well, openmoko-libs seem to be nowhere, anybody knows where they're located ? |
| 14:58.31 | *** join/#openmoko tschaka (n=tschaka@p5B0EB687.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:59.04 | aevin | in picture 7 on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 it may seem like there is some kind of epoxy or other insulator on the solder between gps antenna cable and gsp antenna module. has anyone seen this on their GTA02/FreeRunner ? |
| 14:59.13 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5e2e1.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 14:59.14 | Dave | possibly |
| 14:59.21 | *** join/#openmoko matsch (n=matsch@dyndsl-091-096-004-164.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 14:59.31 | Dave | it is very likely though |
| 14:59.42 | Chocky | well, I'll just have to try. |
| 14:59.58 | Dave | yep :) |
| 15:00.13 | sintuar | Chocky, is it possible to use maps from other programs with tangogps? |
| 15:00.13 | Dave | I suppose it depends on your usb hub :] |
| 15:00.23 | Chocky | only thing is, the mouse will be bigger than the FR ;p |
| 15:00.28 | Dave | sintaur, sure you can use other map repos |
| 15:00.29 | Chocky | sintuar: dunno. |
| 15:00.35 | Dave | Chocky, rofl :D |
| 15:00.43 | Chocky | _and_ it's a small mouse |
| 15:00.48 | *** join/#openmoko Fossi (n=fossi@e176047096.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:00.51 | Dave | teehee |
| 15:00.52 | sintuar | Dave, I ment like just install tomtom maps |
| 15:00.55 | Dave | not another shower radio? :D |
| 15:00.56 | sintuar | or something like that |
| 15:01.01 | Dave | ohhhhhhhh |
| 15:01.15 | Chocky | heh, commerical maps will be more tricky |
| 15:01.15 | Dave | you just want a map app? :P |
| 15:01.17 | Dave | or tomtom |
| 15:01.21 | Dave | right |
| 15:01.23 | sintuar | well |
| 15:01.23 | Dave | also illegal :D |
| 15:01.30 | Dave | not htat many here care :P |
| 15:01.32 | sintuar | well, depends where you live |
| 15:01.33 | sintuar | :-P |
| 15:01.42 | Chocky | free maps tend not to have things like one way streets, but that |
| 15:01.49 | sintuar | yes, that is why |
| 15:01.51 | Chocky | but that's improving, and depends upon country |
| 15:02.19 | Dave | In Soviet Russia, country maps you! |
| 15:02.30 | Chocky | mm, frogpad so expensive |
| 15:03.08 | sintuar | so, I suppose that tangogps can not do routing... |
| 15:03.27 | Chocky | there's other GPS mapping apps for FR |
| 15:03.46 | Chocky | I don't know how all the features compare |
| 15:03.47 | Dave | uhh |
| 15:03.51 | Dave | right |
| 15:04.00 | Dave | there's a new nav on actually :D |
| 15:04.07 | Dave | specifically aimed at driving, I believe :) |
| 15:04.12 | Chocky | och. |
| 15:04.19 | sintuar | how is it called? |
| 15:04.24 | Chocky | "sexy" |
| 15:06.05 | Dave | heh |
| 15:06.14 | Dave | I think it meant, WHAT is it called ;) |
| 15:06.26 | *** part/#openmoko bantu (n=bantu@phpbb/modifications/bantu) |
| 15:07.37 | Chocky | hm, accessing the mircoSD is kinda slow. |
| 15:07.53 | Chocky | copying via SD slot on desktop |
| 15:08.11 | Chocky | ugh. full |
| 15:08.13 | Chocky | gives up |
| 15:08.22 | SpeedEvil | Chocky: mine goes at 12M/second when plugged into my USB2 reader |
| 15:08.38 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-218-123-8.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:08.49 | Dave | Speedevil, cheater. |
| 15:08.57 | Chocky | yes, this is a USB2 reader |
| 15:09.45 | Chocky | unpacks it locally first, then removes crap |
| 15:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko hari (n=hklein@i59F700D7.versanet.de) |
| 15:10.03 | Dave | clean up your mess :P |
| 15:10.17 | Chocky | not my mess. someone else's |
| 15:10.22 | Dave | :P |
| 15:10.52 | Chocky | plus Debian is a bit bloated for embedded systems |
| 15:10.57 | Dave | pah! |
| 15:11.01 | Dave | >:) |
| 15:11.26 | sintuar | guys, thanks for the info ;) |
| 15:11.54 | *** join/#openmoko nurdys (n=nurdys@bft33-1-88-168-253-54.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:12.21 | Chocky | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:12.30 | Dave | Nooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 15:12.33 | Dave | :( |
| 15:12.42 | Chocky | man = 13MB. whoosh. |
| 15:13.05 | Dave | jackass :P |
| 15:13.27 | Chocky | still 474MB. well, at least it'll fit now |
| 15:13.28 | Dave | I'm pissed enough that OM doesn't have manpages. |
| 15:13.32 | Dave | right :P |
| 15:13.33 | Dave | heh |
| 15:13.34 | rivalarrival | Why are we blowing away the doc files? |
| 15:13.44 | Dave | You know you could just get a bigger card :P |
| 15:13.46 | Chocky | cos the Debian image was 515MB |
| 15:13.56 | Chocky | time, effort and money |
| 15:14.02 | Dave | Dude, netinstall, motherfucker! :D |
| 15:14.10 | Chocky | once I get it to boot, I can remove more packages. |
| 15:14.15 | Chocky | that'll take forever. |
| 15:14.28 | rivalarrival | Your loading debian on your OM? |
| 15:14.34 | Chocky | do you doubt my Debian skillz, padawan |
| 15:14.35 | Dave | Hell yeah! |
| 15:14.40 | Chocky | Hell yeah x 2 ! |
| 15:14.48 | malik1972 | hello |
| 15:14.49 | rivalarrival | Awesome. |
| 15:14.56 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 15:15.07 | malik1972 | is "df-util --upload" buggy? |
| 15:15.22 | Ainulindale | Well I can't find this #@! openmoko-libs sources |
| 15:16.19 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 15:16.57 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@16.106.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 15:17.53 | norro | is there a command line editor on gta02 by default that is not vi? |
| 15:17.56 | rivalarrival | Damn, where is UPS taking my phone? It left sunnyvale on Friday, but hasn't been scanned since... |
| 15:18.37 | Chocky | opkg install nano |
| 15:18.59 | Dave | opkg install debian |
| 15:19.00 | Dave | :D |
| 15:19.04 | *** join/#openmoko Fossi (n=fossi@e176047096.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:19.17 | Chocky | that's a longer way to get nano, yes |
| 15:19.34 | nullpuppy | whats wrong with vi? |
| 15:19.45 | Chocky | everything! |
| 15:19.51 | nullpuppy | bah! |
| 15:19.58 | Dave | hah |
| 15:20.00 | Dave | teh hate |
| 15:20.02 | Chocky | :wq! is what's wrong with vi |
| 15:20.13 | nullpuppy | hehe |
| 15:20.18 | sitwon | argh.... I'm pretty sure my FR is affected by the broken GPS issue |
| 15:20.26 | nullpuppy | loves teh vim |
| 15:20.57 | Dave | high-fives nullpuppy |
| 15:21.02 | SpeedEvil | sitwon: :( |
| 15:21.07 | Dave | sitwon, yeah :( |
| 15:21.16 | leinir | Chocky: Simple, it's approach to usability - there's more to usability than effectiveness ;) |
| 15:21.32 | leinir | vi is fine - but not as default editor for anything |
| 15:21.32 | SpeedEvil | sitwon: you've found the GPS page? |
| 15:21.38 | leinir | It scares people away ;) |
| 15:21.41 | SpeedEvil | sitwon: and how to check it? |
| 15:21.43 | sitwon | SpeedEvil: I found three |
| 15:21.50 | sitwon | and I've been following convos on the ML |
| 15:21.50 | Chocky | hum. what is uBoot expecting for uImage. |
| 15:22.00 | nullpuppy | leinir: but it's so easy to use! and so freaking powerful! |
| 15:22.01 | sitwon | I don't get any dBm |
| 15:22.07 | sitwon | no fixes even after 15 min |
| 15:22.10 | nullpuppy | (once you realize how to use it at least....) |
| 15:22.11 | SpeedEvil | sitwon: been outside? |
| 15:22.11 | sitwon | nothing that even looks like a fix |
| 15:22.17 | sitwon | SpeedEvil: ofcourse |
| 15:22.20 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 15:22.28 | SpeedEvil | passes sitwon a soldering iron. |
| 15:22.34 | rm | [Vielen Dank für die Aufmerksamkeit. M.f.G.] Thanks for Attention. |
| 15:22.45 | sitwon | is there any word on wheter or now OpenMoko will fix it or do we have to crack it open ourselves? |
| 15:22.55 | SpeedEvil | Not yet. |
| 15:22.58 | Chocky | sitwon: I suggest we wait the week out and see what they say |
| 15:22.59 | leinir | nullpuppy: Exactly my point - it's super effective :) Which is *not* what you want if you only use it every three or four weeks ;) |
| 15:23.18 | nullpuppy | leinir: hehe, *shrugs* |
| 15:23.23 | sitwon | ok... I'd rather not take a soldering iron to it myself |
| 15:23.31 | Chocky | I will if I have to. |
| 15:23.39 | sitwon | and if it is poor soldering it should be coverd by the warranty |
| 15:23.43 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E1742B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:23.53 | Dave | http://bc.tech.coop/blog/images/curves.jpg |
| 15:24.03 | *** join/#openmoko z0idberg_ (n=zoidberg@pD9E94C71.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:24.10 | Dave | huhu |
| 15:24.15 | *** join/#openmoko anishmangal2002 (n=anish@59.178.37.169) |
| 15:24.26 | leinir | Dave: Looks about right :) Kate is missing, though ;) |
| 15:24.42 | Dave | pfft |
| 15:24.46 | Dave | doesn't deserve one |
| 15:24.56 | Dave | fucking KDE |
| 15:25.07 | Chocky | KDE on FR - Hell yeah! |
| 15:25.11 | *** join/#openmoko serge_ (n=serge@pool-141-156-47-15.washdc.btas.verizon.net) |
| 15:25.27 | nullpuppy | hmm, yeah, that looks about right. |
| 15:25.47 | leinir | Chocky: There's a GSoC project to get Plasma to work on small formfactor devices :) The main target is Neo1973 ;) |
| 15:25.54 | Chocky | muh |
| 15:25.58 | Dave | :p |
| 15:26.04 | nullpuppy | wonders if the emacs graph is supposed to imply that you go insane using it. |
| 15:26.04 | *** join/#openmoko Fossi (n=fossi@e176047096.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:26.42 | Tanuva | leinir: wtf? they really want that? Oo |
| 15:26.42 | Dave | uh huh :P |
| 15:26.52 | Dave | Tanuva! |
| 15:26.59 | Tanuva | Dave! |
| 15:27.31 | zash | lol vim! |
| 15:27.36 | leinir | Tanuva: Of course :) Plasma is supposed to be resolution independent, so getting it to work on something like the freerunner, well... :) |
| 15:27.42 | MrShlee | Dave: Where does "huhu" originate? |
| 15:27.55 | Dave | Look it up! :D |
| 15:27.56 | zash | didn't i see screenshots of KDE4 on the freerunner? |
| 15:27.56 | *** join/#openmoko Blastur (n=kebab@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 15:28.00 | zash | on scap.blahasomething |
| 15:28.05 | leinir | zash: Very likely :) |
| 15:28.31 | leinir | i know there were some posted on planetkde.org at one point :) |
| 15:28.42 | Elleo | scap.linuxtogo.org probably |
| 15:30.30 | Elleo | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/84dfd969e800538893c6e63e34742e99.png |
| 15:31.04 | leinir | There ya go :) Thanks! |
| 15:31.10 | balrog-kun | neat |
| 15:31.12 | Elleo | no problem :) |
| 15:31.23 | Dave | balrogkun! ^^ |
| 15:31.27 | zash | was to lazy to write scap.linuxtogo.org |
| 15:32.07 | Ainulindale | mickeyl ? if you have five minutes, I can't manage to build openmoko-libs, it won't find the sources (http or svn) |
| 15:32.09 | Tanuva | is surprised |
| 15:32.13 | Ainulindale | Even with AUTOREV |
| 15:33.15 | malik1972 | does upload option in df-util work? |
| 15:33.43 | mickeyl | svn.openmoko.org works from ehre |
| 15:34.01 | Ainulindale | Yep it works but it won't find the sources |
| 15:34.05 | balrog-kun | malik1972: i heard it works |
| 15:34.12 | balrog-kun | from juri_ |
| 15:34.16 | Ainulindale | it can't find http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/openmoko-libs |
| 15:34.16 | malik1972 | it doesnt for me |
| 15:34.22 | Ainulindale | which is normal as it doesn't exist it seems |
| 15:34.35 | Ainulindale | And as it's a dependency of openmoko-dialer... |
| 15:35.09 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 15:35.19 | mickeyl | openmoko-libs... |
| 15:35.25 | malik1972 | balrog-kun: want do backup nor uboot env and to restore it in nand env |
| 15:35.25 | mickeyl | that sounds pretty old |
| 15:35.31 | mickeyl | perhaps you're looking for openmoko-dialer2 |
| 15:35.34 | *** part/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@83.68.218.53) |
| 15:35.36 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@83.68.218.53) |
| 15:35.38 | mickeyl | openmoko-dialer no longer exists, really |
| 15:35.47 | mickeyl | i should remove that 2007.1 stuff from OE |
| 15:35.52 | Ainulindale | Ow man this is such a pain :-) |
| 15:36.18 | Ainulindale | Oh by the way thanks for the feed thing, it's really working nicely |
| 15:36.27 | mickeyl | :) |
| 15:36.32 | Ainulindale | I think we ought to set up one for SHR |
| 15:36.51 | Ainulindale | Instead of bitbaking our own packages individually |
| 15:36.51 | malik1972 | balrog-kun: but it backups the nand uboot env !?! |
| 15:37.46 | balrog-kun | i don't know |
| 15:39.28 | *** join/#openmoko crib (n=chris@port-195-158-167-6.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 15:41.40 | *** join/#openmoko erwin_ (n=erwin@80-218-123-8.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:41.53 | *** join/#openmoko awesomo4k (n=arhodes@c-76-26-146-101.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 15:42.33 | cesarb | Is Mokomakefile's "make update" working for anyone? It's failing for me with "fatal: Needed a single revision" "invalid upstream origin/bitbake-om" |
| 15:43.49 | CM | cesarb: Worked for me yesterday |
| 15:43.53 | CM | From a clean build |
| 15:44.12 | CM | then I got a problem with assasin using https for svn |
| 15:44.15 | *** join/#openmoko blan_ (n=blan@dslb-092-075-245-191.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:44.35 | CM | And after I got around that it failed on mono-native |
| 15:44.54 | cesarb | CM: strange. Mine should be the cleanest build, since I nuked everything and started from scratch yesterday, and only did "make setup", "make build-qemu", "make tools" and "make image" |
| 15:45.08 | cesarb | CM: with the most recent mokomakefile |
| 15:45.16 | CM | Same here |
| 15:45.34 | CM | Didn't start completely clean though, just with a make clobber |
| 15:45.41 | *** join/#openmoko LionKMP (n=lion@catv-5985b8e7.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 15:45.42 | CM | then make update all |
| 15:45.52 | awesomo4k | hi errbody |
| 15:46.00 | *** join/#openmoko Hannes_S (n=Hannes_S@f054020008.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:46.16 | rivalarrival | I prefer make cobbler |
| 15:46.31 | nuclear_eclipse | mmm, cobbler |
| 15:46.32 | rivalarrival | peach, blueberry, |
| 15:46.40 | nuclear_eclipse | hungry |
| 15:47.16 | awesomo4k | i'm on ubuntu 8.04 and want to try building all from scratch. i have v1 hardware (freerunner on the way) . got a link that says exactly what to do start to finish? |
| 15:47.42 | CM | awesomo4k: Yes, I think there's good instructions in the wiki |
| 15:48.13 | awesomo4k | k. wasn't sure if that was current. |
| 15:48.22 | CM | awesomo4k: Easiest way is probably by using the makefile: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
| 15:49.24 | cesarb | tested with the most recent git too, so it's not the distro's old git causing the problem |
| 15:49.29 | awesomo4k | on another note... has anyone got a non-X11 distro in the works? |
| 15:50.00 | cesarb | awesomo4k: weren't they going _away_ from non-X11 distros? |
| 15:50.39 | CM | Doesn't MokoUnderground use the fb directly? |
| 15:50.39 | dimko | can anyone give me a link on some goo jiff2 file please? something that is more or less usable? i am not looking for quickness, rather for being future ritch |
| 15:50.44 | *** join/#openmoko PatrickJPatience (n=Matt@dpc6747231200.direcpc.com) |
| 15:50.58 | awesomo4k | MokoUnderground -- i saw that .. wasn't that some german hackers ? |
| 15:51.14 | awesomo4k | i was thinking ncurses w a touchscreen in my head |
| 15:51.15 | CM | pokes emdete :) |
| 15:51.45 | CM | awesomo4k: Maybe just use a minimal angstrom or fso-light image? |
| 15:51.50 | PatrickJPatience | Anyone tried using the Freerunner with Rogers? |
| 15:52.06 | awesomo4k | fso-light ? |
| 15:52.09 | CM | dimko: Tried ScaredyCat's 2007.2 images? |
| 15:52.18 | CM | awesomo4k: You can build it using the makefile |
| 15:52.26 | CM | It's a minimal fso image |
| 15:52.33 | awesomo4k | cool. |
| 15:52.58 | CM | dimko: http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ |
| 15:53.15 | dimko | CM: thank you :) |
| 15:53.16 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@p57B29C84.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:53.28 | nuclear_eclipse | CM: isn't FSO already minimal? :P |
| 15:53.51 | CM | nuclear_eclipse: Heh, I just finished building both, haven't tried them yet |
| 15:53.58 | awesomo4k | how long do builds usually take |
| 15:54.03 | CM | dimko: I suggest the scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-om-gta01.jffs2 image |
| 15:54.23 | CM | awesomo4k: The first build takes a while. Depends on what computer you have |
| 15:54.42 | nuclear_eclipse | I couldn't get the scaredycat images working on my FR |
| 15:54.53 | awesomo4k | cray y/mp |
| 15:54.58 | dimko | is already wgeting it |
| 15:55.08 | CM | dimko: Oh, sorry |
| 15:55.20 | CM | Make sure it's for a FreeRunner and not GTA01 |
| 15:55.30 | dimko | thats coo, i have freerunner |
| 15:55.46 | *** join/#openmoko `pwgen` (n=ew@port-92-202-110-184.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 15:56.23 | awesomo4k | can i build a dist that works on both gta01 and freerunner or is it significantly different for the new hardware ? |
| 15:56.36 | dimko | yae |
| 15:56.44 | dimko | was downloading gt01 |
| 15:56.51 | CM | awesomo4k: I guess the ipkgs works fine |
| 15:56.56 | Tanuva | you would need differend modules I think... but mostly it could work fine |
| 15:57.00 | *** part/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@61.170.249.211) |
| 15:57.16 | Tanuva | *different |
| 15:57.19 | CM | dimko: Latest official builds for the freerunner: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080712/ |
| 15:57.27 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-218-123-8.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:57.36 | cesarb | CM: could you see if your bitbake/.git/config file has more than the "[core]" section? mine has only that section, which doesn't make sense |
| 15:57.36 | vpv | any idea why I get "Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(179,2)" when trying to boot either 2007.2 or Qtopia proper from the "default" SD card? I've followed http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Boot_from_sd_card |
| 15:57.48 | dimko | tryed most fo them by now... :( |
| 15:58.09 | Tanuva | vpv: there was discussion about it, but I dont know if they have a real solution to this issue yet |
| 15:58.27 | CM | cesarb: http://pastebin.ca/1070952 |
| 15:58.32 | Dave | leinir make my qtopia work please! |
| 15:58.32 | Tanuva | ah. discussion about or discussion on? or another preposition? :D |
| 15:58.42 | vpv | Tanuva: so is it an issue with the new kernel or what? |
| 15:59.07 | *** part/#openmoko PatrickJPatience (n=Matt@dpc6747231200.direcpc.com) |
| 15:59.08 | Tanuva | vpv: since the kernel produces the message, I'd say yes. but I'm no expert |
| 15:59.11 | leinir | Dave: Hmm? i'm just a user! lpotter is the one who knows :) |
| 15:59.18 | cesarb | CM: yep, yours make sense. I'm trying to figure out which nonsense did mokomakefile did to nuke that section |
| 15:59.23 | vpv | It'd be great to be able to dual-boot to qtopia (or ASU) with the 2007.2 |
| 15:59.24 | *** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.147.21) |
| 15:59.24 | jakob__ | is there any fso image around, which I could boot from the sd card to play around with evas/edje and it's python bindings? |
| 15:59.26 | cesarb | s/did mokomakefile did/did mokomakefile do/ |
| 15:59.47 | Tanuva | vpv: it was something about ext2 being a module instead of compiled into the kernel |
| 15:59.52 | Dave | lpotter is even less helpful! |
| 16:00.41 | vpv | Tanuva: well, with my very limited kernel experience, that could probably make sense ;) |
| 16:00.54 | jOERG_rw | Dave: morning! |
| 16:01.39 | Dave | Hello Joerg! :D |
| 16:02.07 | cesarb | CM: great, doing the _checkout_ with the distro's old git doesn't setup things properly... and later it tries to do a checkout -b ... --track ..., but the distro's git doesn't have --track! |
| 16:02.09 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@ppp-82-135-92-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 16:02.20 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g226205039.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:02.34 | CM | cesarb: Ah, crappy.. |
| 16:02.38 | cesarb | That's what I get for using last year's distro :| |
| 16:02.57 | nuclear_eclipse | cesarb: what distro? |
| 16:02.58 | jOERG_rw | is just charging a noname battery "For 6230i" in FR. Costs him 5⬠|
| 16:03.00 | cesarb | now has to remember to add his self-compiled git to the path before using mokomakefile |
| 16:03.16 | cesarb | nuclear_eclipse: Ubuntu 7.04 |
| 16:03.19 | Dave | :o |
| 16:03.29 | dimko | CM: well, i dont want to ask many stupid questions, can you perhaps give me some of your link on distributions? i mean, wiki for openmoko is cool, but you may have soething thaat is not there. thanks |
| 16:03.34 | nuclear_eclipse | add, you could just install the gt package from newer ubuntu :P |
| 16:03.39 | Dave | joerg, so what all can charge the fr? |
| 16:03.48 | Dave | any dumb usb charger? :o |
| 16:04.24 | jOERG_rw | Dave: 3.6V LiIon batteries that snuggly fit n mechanically |
| 16:04.35 | Dave | eh? |
| 16:04.36 | CM | dimko: Hmm.. I don't know if there's any good overview anywhere |
| 16:04.54 | Dave | any charger will do? :o |
| 16:05.10 | dimko | i asked this question yesterday night, but i don't want to depend on one opinion only - is there need to update kernel everytime you update filesystem? i know it probably wil work, but will there be any problems with modules or anything like that? |
| 16:05.13 | Dave | I mean, it auto-negotiates, right? |
| 16:05.17 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213-152-39-89.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) |
| 16:05.21 | SpeedEvil | dimko: maybe |
| 16:05.23 | SpeedEvil | Dave: no |
| 16:05.26 | Dave | haha |
| 16:05.26 | jOERG_rw | Dave: sorry I didn't get your question. Please reword |
| 16:05.36 | Dave | I was hoping you wouldn't notice, sPEEDEVIL |
| 16:05.36 | SpeedEvil | Dave: dumbchargers are not smart enough to negotiate |
| 16:05.40 | Dave | :P |
| 16:05.43 | Dave | :D |
| 16:05.52 | Dave | but I want to blow mine up... :( |
| 16:06.01 | SpeedEvil | Dave: they have recognition methods that must be picked up by the FR |
| 16:06.16 | CM | dimko: Usually you can update the kernel and rootfs independently, but don't leave the kernen un-updated for too long :) |
| 16:06.28 | dimko | scaredy cat image for frerunner is quite old though... |
| 16:07.15 | jOERG_rw | Dave: SpeedEvil: FR takes every USB-wallcharger. You have to switch to fastcharge via sowftware, because they miss the magic 47k-resistor |
| 16:07.22 | CM | dimko: I noticed. He only has a gta01, like me |
| 16:07.38 | CM | I almost forgot there's all these FreeRunner people in here now ;) |
| 16:07.42 | dimko | CM: sure, i know, that fresh kernel is feature ritch kernel, but my point is - is there a problem with jeff2 files if i dont update kernel with them? is there a special kernel for every jffs2? |
| 16:07.43 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: yes, that's what I mean |
| 16:08.17 | jOERG_rw | Dave: SpeedEvil: FR in turn charges every battery that's LiIon and fits to the mechanical dimensions to insert |
| 16:08.20 | dimko | CM: fair enough, may be someone shod do #freerunner? :) |
| 16:08.51 | CM | dimko: Hehe, na, just me being a bit slow. I'll wait for the gta03 for now, need to save some cash |
| 16:09.21 | dimko | its not going to have gps if i am not mistaking |
| 16:09.47 | dimko | really wants gps feature, since he is going to buy a motorbike |
| 16:09.50 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: yeah, without 47k or sw-switching, it will only power 100mA :-/ |
| 16:10.01 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: that's USB-spec |
| 16:10.25 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: not to kill any usb-host |
| 16:11.31 | *** part/#openmoko VDVsx (n=VDVsx@router-citi.uevora.pt) |
| 16:11.52 | Dave | joerg, yeah |
| 16:11.55 | Dave | I'd rather it did :D |
| 16:12.04 | *** join/#openmoko anishmangal2002 (n=anish@59.178.46.59) |
| 16:12.13 | Dave | I have a few car chargers |
| 16:12.30 | Dave | and who knows what they're specs are :p |
| 16:12.51 | Dave | but at the very least each one should power it 100mA then, right? :P |
| 16:12.54 | jOERG_rw | Dave: nah, those are "unbreakable" |
| 16:13.04 | *** join/#openmoko nomeata (i=nobody@nomeata.de) |
| 16:13.07 | nuclear_eclipse | Dave: it should say *exactly* what their specs are, on the casing :P |
| 16:13.11 | Dave | haha |
| 16:13.16 | Dave | nuclear_eclipse: nope :D |
| 16:13.22 | Dave | haha |
| 16:13.23 | CM | dimko: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-June/018425.html |
| 16:13.31 | Dave | I could test one of them though |
| 16:13.37 | jOERG_rw | Dave: they are good for a 500mA anyway, for sure |
| 16:13.47 | Dave | I would assume so |
| 16:13.53 | Dave | I'm pretty sure they're 1A |
| 16:14.20 | Dave | Well, it's all good. |
| 16:14.27 | Dave | So long as you don't leave you freerunner in the car on a hot day |
| 16:14.31 | Dave | because it will melt :D |
| 16:14.46 | rivalarrival | Really? That sucks. |
| 16:14.51 | jOERG_rw | Dave: yeah probably :D |
| 16:14.53 | Dave | also, if the battery gets too hot, it shuts off |
| 16:14.55 | Dave | :[ |
| 16:15.44 | jOERG_rw | rivalarrival: ever forgot a vnyl-LP in a car on a hot day ;-) |
| 16:15.47 | jOERG_rw | ? |
| 16:15.53 | *** join/#openmoko Guilt (n=Karthik@allegro/user/Guilt) |
| 16:16.04 | Dave | I've forgotten casette tapes |
| 16:16.05 | nuclear_eclipse | jOERG_rw: you mean CD's ;) :P |
| 16:16.06 | rivalarrival | jOERG_rw: Considering I was born in 1981, no. |
| 16:16.08 | Dave | they melted into the dash |
| 16:16.10 | Dave | :D |
| 16:16.46 | jOERG_rw | rivalarrival: ah, sorry. always frget I'm an old man ;-P |
| 16:16.59 | rivalarrival | jOERG_rw: Old? Try ancient. :-) |
| 16:17.38 | Dave | :D |
| 16:17.59 | jOERG_rw | rivalarrival: so yu're not exactly a DJ? I bet... |
| 16:18.00 | Dave | Nah, Joerg is good! :D |
| 16:18.10 | SpeedEvil | Dave: the alternative is to just assume that any 5V source that's not a USB host in suspend or active is a valid cahrger, and fast charge from it. |
| 16:18.19 | SpeedEvil | Dave: but that's not been implemented yet. |
| 16:18.34 | Dave | Right |
| 16:18.50 | Dave | I am aware of the stinginess and lack of fancy features in that department |
| 16:18.56 | SpeedEvil | Battery life at teh moment is very much a work in progress. Currently suspend is broken, so you get 6-12 hours depending on what's on. The hardware appears capable of doing a week standby, with 20 hours mp3, and 5 hours+ talk time. |
| 16:18.57 | Dave | Joerg has kept me up to date |
| 16:18.57 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: but that's exactly he line I actually was thinking along this very moment |
| 16:19.14 | Dave | right :) |
| 16:19.31 | Dave | No automagic :P |
| 16:19.43 | nomeata | Hi. If I want to hack a little bit on the openmoko-messages2 package, what is the easiest way to get started? MokoMakefile or something smaller? |
| 16:19.46 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: na, wouldn't bet for 20h MP3 |
| 16:19.55 | Dave | heh |
| 16:19.57 | Dave | more power! |
| 16:19.58 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: it's high CPU-load anyway |
| 16:19.58 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: I can get near that on GTA01 |
| 16:20.03 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: no it's not |
| 16:20.04 | Dave | steals Speedevil's powerpack |
| 16:20.14 | Dave | fight fight fight fight! |
| 16:20.16 | rivalarrival | Should just make it run off 3 AAA-nimh |
| 16:20.17 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: 60MHz or so is required for MP3 |
| 16:20.30 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: I've had it going at about 60% of CPU at 100MHz on GTA01 |
| 16:20.56 | jOERG_rw | rivalarrival: perfectly feasible, just cnnect to ba-cntacts |
| 16:21.06 | Dave | I thought 90MHz was required for good decompression and realtime eq |
| 16:21.17 | jOERG_rw | gnah, battery-contacts |
| 16:21.22 | Dave | hehe |
| 16:21.26 | rivalarrival | hates lithion ion batteries. |
| 16:21.31 | Dave | :D |
| 16:21.32 | Dave | yay |
| 16:21.38 | SpeedEvil | Dave: eq - ... decoding works fine. |
| 16:21.48 | Dave | yeah |
| 16:21.48 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: sounds god :-) |
| 16:21.55 | jOERG_rw | good |
| 16:22.13 | Dave | Yeah I mean, do we -really- need a 500MHz mp3 player? ;) |
| 16:22.16 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: Assuming cpufreq and volting on the SoC on FR works OK. |
| 16:22.19 | nomeata | Sounds like http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain is the way to go, right? |
| 16:22.23 | nuclear_eclipse | Dave: yes! |
| 16:22.24 | jOERG_rw | wonders if he finds time to unpack and connect the new keyboard today |
| 16:22.25 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: and there are no oopses. |
| 16:22.28 | Dave | haha |
| 16:22.32 | rivalarrival | Dave: Yes. Yes we do need a 500mhz mp3 player. |
| 16:22.42 | Dave | so that's like what, 1hr of battery life? :P |
| 16:23.20 | Dave | stupid ipod |
| 16:23.32 | jOERG_rw | Dave: een on 500MHz you get several hours, when backlit dim |
| 16:23.33 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: the image of the 'extras' pack in the shop shows a 1200mAh GTA01 pack. Is GTA01 and GTA02 bats compatible - or is the piccy wrong. |
| 16:23.38 | rivalarrival | Maybe in the current model. I'm gonna slap a big ol sealed lead acid on the back. It'll look like a cell phone from 1988. |
| 16:23.54 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: I have run my GTA01 off a car battery for 24h |
| 16:23.57 | Dave | joerg, maybe two, with the backlight fully illuminated :) |
| 16:24.13 | Dave | They should be |
| 16:24.20 | SpeedEvil | rivalarrival: for logging GPS results |
| 16:24.35 | SpeedEvil | has wondered about pimping the backlight. |
| 16:24.36 | Dave | too bad the os seems to implode after that :P |
| 16:24.43 | Dave | hell yeah |
| 16:24.46 | Dave | funky colors |
| 16:24.48 | Dave | flashy lights |
| 16:24.49 | SpeedEvil | 1W+ LED |
| 16:24.51 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: never had a look at that. You can use GTA01-bat in GTA02. though I dn't think we're shipping any more GTA01-bats |
| 16:25.20 | nomeata | wonders if anyone has put the toolchain in an apt-getâable repository for debian/ubuntu, but google does not find anythin. |
| 16:25.24 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: can the GTA01 work with a 02 bat? |
| 16:25.37 | Dave | Yes |
| 16:25.38 | Dave | It does. |
| 16:25.42 | SpeedEvil | And charge? |
| 16:25.44 | Dave | We have this in the lab. |
| 16:25.44 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK_ (i=root@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 16:26.00 | SpeedEvil | is undeusre if thethermistor is actually used. |
| 16:26.10 | Dave | I noticed last week, our GTA01s that we have in the lab apparently have GTA01 batteries in them |
| 16:26.14 | Dave | They definitely charge, too |
| 16:26.17 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: not quite sure. probably not. GTA01 needs NTC for temp-detection AFAIK. GTA02-bat doesn't have |
| 16:26.22 | Dave | Though the GTA01 battery life is awful |
| 16:26.28 | Dave | comparatively :| |
| 16:26.35 | SpeedEvil | Daviey: I've had it up for 12h |
| 16:26.37 | SpeedEvil | dave: |
| 16:26.44 | SpeedEvil | Dave: at 100MHz, undervolted a bit. |
| 16:26.52 | Dave | Yeah well, I'm saying, with no power-saving features, at normal CPU |
| 16:27.02 | Dave | the people who've used them told me it sucked |
| 16:27.10 | Dave | and I witnessed it go down in an hour |
| 16:27.13 | Dave | :| |
| 16:27.17 | SpeedEvil | It's not that bad. |
| 16:27.22 | SpeedEvil | Unless something's wrong. |
| 16:27.26 | Dave | Yeah yeah |
| 16:27.27 | SpeedEvil | I regularly take it out for 3 |
| 16:27.32 | Dave | Nice |
| 16:27.35 | SpeedEvil | I regularly take it out for 3+ hour shopping/mapping trips. |
| 16:27.39 | Dave | Oh, so I've been doing gps tests with the freerunners |
| 16:27.47 | Dave | taking them in the car and such |
| 16:27.47 | Dave | yeah |
| 16:27.50 | SpeedEvil | With the backlight on and tangogps running |
| 16:27.52 | Dave | I went shopping the other day |
| 16:28.00 | Dave | I got some nice battery life out of it too! |
| 16:28.01 | SpeedEvil | and bluetooth GPS logging |
| 16:28.09 | Dave | running tango and whatnot |
| 16:28.18 | Dave | downside was, I forgot how hot it would get in the car... :P |
| 16:28.34 | Dave | almost lost a freerunner |
| 16:28.48 | jOERG_rw | away having the urgently needed latte macciato for breakfast |
| 16:28.57 | Dave | haha |
| 16:29.04 | Dave | That's some breakfast, Joerg :P |
| 16:29.18 | jOERG_rw | standard ;-) |
| 16:29.36 | jOERG_rw | might even consider to *eat* smething |
| 16:29.36 | Dave | bleh :P |
| 16:30.29 | nomeata | I noticed that http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-messages2/ had no commits since three month. Is that then the current source for the daily built image? |
| 16:30.38 | Dave | Joerg, that would be good :) |
| 16:30.41 | Dave | Enjoy your breakfast! |
| 16:31.11 | *** join/#openmoko Varox-DT (n=Varox@p4FD475B1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:31.16 | Dave | Speedevil, so have you fashioned a decently sized battery pack for the phone? :) |
| 16:31.22 | mmontour | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:32.09 | malik1972 | can someone help with neocon? |
| 16:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko madwoota (n=mad@woota.net) |
| 16:32.17 | *** join/#openmoko mmaestri (i=c9fe59e4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0f38a07f7f4a8b27) |
| 16:32.39 | malik1972 | mmontour: hi |
| 16:32.40 | *** join/#openmoko sindre (n=sindre@084202252254.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 16:32.45 | Dave | If that's a conference, or convention, I have yet to hear about it :D |
| 16:32.50 | Dave | sounds awesome though |
| 16:32.54 | jakob__ | does anyone know if a package containing the embryo_cc compiler exists? Or what way is there to compile and create and edje file? |
| 16:32.56 | Dave | We should have one, haha. |
| 16:33.16 | *** join/#openmoko sindre (n=sindre@084202252254.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 16:34.02 | SpeedEvil | Dave: the silly one - in principle would run it for a couple of weeks. But that the earlier comment was about the stock battery. |
| 16:40.57 | *** join/#openmoko blan_ (n=blan@dslb-088-066-109-199.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:42.37 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja_ (n=zefanja@drsd-4dbcaa49.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 16:42.54 | *** join/#openmoko madwoota (n=mad@woota.net) |
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| 16:47.34 | *** join/#openmoko VDVsx (n=VDVsx@bl5-145-87.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 16:48.32 | Dave | right, I figured :) |
| 16:48.41 | Dave | Speedevil, I do think it's a smart idea |
| 16:48.46 | Dave | But no car batteries now :) |
| 16:50.20 | nomeata | hi. trying to follow the instructions from the Toolchain page, I get this error when running ./autogen.sh: |
| 16:50.32 | nomeata | checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs. |
| 16:50.32 | nomeata | If you meant to cross compile, use `--host'. |
| 16:51.08 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes_ (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 16:54.54 | exco | hello |
| 16:55.10 | Vegar | nomeata: on debian/ubuntu? |
| 16:55.56 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-58-170-92-81.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 16:56.19 | awesomo4k | where's the latest MokoMakefile |
| 16:56.24 | exco | what part am I missing if I don't have a regular taskbar (usb gsm,... icons)? |
| 16:56.27 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 16:56.57 | awesomo4k | oh n/m i guess the fires went away |
| 16:57.33 | garnser_ | nomeata: what's the URL to the Toolchain site? |
| 16:57.42 | nomeata | garnser_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain |
| 16:57.53 | garnser_ | thx |
| 16:58.05 | nomeata | Vegar: yes. It seems it works if I skip autogen.sh, at least for the demo app |
| 16:58.18 | Dave | attaches electrodes to Speedevil |
| 16:58.19 | Vegar | nomeata: apt-get install build-essential |
| 16:59.12 | Dave | huhu |
| 16:59.52 | nomeata | Vegar: thx, but thatâs all installed |
| 17:00.09 | Vegar | ok |
| 17:00.10 | *** join/#openmoko slchen (n=slchen@61-64-101-232-adsl-tpe.dynamic.so-net.net.tw) |
| 17:01.46 | awesomo4k | dang git is fast |
| 17:02.04 | garnser_ | does anyone have experience of the wifi dropping 2-3 past boot? |
| 17:04.30 | nomeata | next try, building openmoko-messages2, when I run om-conf, I get this: |
| 17:04.40 | nomeata | checking for EBOOK... configure: error: Package requirements (libebook-1.2) were not met: |
| 17:04.43 | *** join/#openmoko beaker82 (n=Daniel@adsl-76-208-147-243.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:04.50 | nomeata | but libebook-1.2 is available in /usr/local/openmoko |
| 17:05.25 | Ainulindale | mickeyl ? |
| 17:08.50 | nomeata | so, how do you build your packages for your freerunner? |
| 17:10.02 | SpeedEvil | cardboard + tape? |
| 17:11.07 | awesomo4k | what's FSO stand for |
| 17:11.09 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand_ (i=johnhand@fu/design/noxie) |
| 17:11.22 | nomeata | SpeedEvil: ;-) |
| 17:11.27 | SpeedEvil | Free Smartphone Omage. |
| 17:11.40 | awesomo4k | wtf? really? |
| 17:11.41 | balrog-kun | Ownage |
| 17:11.46 | SpeedEvil | is unsure of the O. |
| 17:11.53 | balrog-kun | it's FreeSmartphone.Org actually :p |
| 17:11.59 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 17:12.28 | awesomo4k | has anyone got the phone showing up as a storage device |
| 17:12.31 | awesomo4k | when plugged in usb |
| 17:13.04 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: you can |
| 17:13.12 | SpeedEvil | awesomo4k: in principle |
| 17:13.37 | awesomo4k | it _could_ be anything i wanted, with a little usb hacking, eh? |
| 17:13.50 | SpeedEvil | It's a USB gadget driver |
| 17:14.01 | SpeedEvil | the default one is a network adaptor |
| 17:14.08 | SpeedEvil | It fakes an ethernet port. |
| 17:14.21 | awesomo4k | yeah that's how i've been using it.. w/ssh |
| 17:14.36 | awesomo4k | works well. have to remember to turn off power mgmt though or it locks up my session |
| 17:15.01 | *** join/#openmoko balrog-k1n (n=balrog@ckw96.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:16.23 | awesomo4k | ok i'm at a critical point in my first full build |
| 17:16.28 | *** part/#openmoko beaker82 (n=Daniel@adsl-76-208-147-243.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:16.31 | awesomo4k | which OM_GIT_BRANCH to specify |
| 17:17.42 | cesarb | awesomo4k: depends on which distribution you want |
| 17:17.54 | awesomo4k | is there a page with all the choices and differences |
| 17:18.09 | cesarb | awesomo4k: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Distributions |
| 17:18.18 | awesomo4k | excellent thx |
| 17:18.48 | cesarb | is using 2007.2 since he needs a terminal; unfortunately, _matchbox-keyboard is now broken and I cannot get a hyphen!_ |
| 17:19.12 | cesarb | of course, I can get a hyphen with multitap-pad, but then I lose the other shell characters! |
| 17:19.46 | cesarb | hopes qtopia's promised terminal arrives soon, and also hopes qtopia's keyboard is saner |
| 17:20.02 | awesomo4k | bluetooth keyboard ? |
| 17:20.12 | cesarb | awesomo4k: no, builtin stylus keyboard |
| 17:20.49 | cesarb | awesomo4k: I could in theory use a bluetooth keyboard, except that I didn't test bluetooth with cpufreq yet (I'm working at cpufreq, which is why I cannot use usb/ssh... usb somehow breaks with cpufreq) |
| 17:21.26 | awesomo4k | this is a util for changing the cpufreq on the arm processor on the phone? |
| 17:21.35 | cesarb | awesomo4k: not a util, a kernel module |
| 17:21.38 | awesomo4k | related to power management? |
| 17:22.11 | cesarb | awesomo4k: you can use any normal linux cpufreq util, but you usually do echo ondemand > some/very/long/filename and let the kernel governor take over |
| 17:22.59 | SpeedEvil | passes cesarb a hundred million dollars to get cpufreq working properly. |
| 17:23.06 | Dave | haha |
| 17:23.11 | awesomo4k | cpufreq causes problems in regular linux on x86 too |
| 17:23.27 | awesomo4k | if you are a vmware user you've probably run into this |
| 17:23.38 | awesomo4k | clocks running twice as fast and stuff |
| 17:23.44 | Dave | colludes with Speedevil to fashion a nice conforming expandable batterypack for the GTA0X |
| 17:24.00 | awesomo4k | wants a video-out port |
| 17:24.18 | SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/100-000-000-ZIMBABWE-BANK-NOTE-UNC-VERY-HARD-TO-OBTAIN_W0QQitemZ130236300387QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130236300387&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318 |
| 17:24.20 | Chocky | wants moon on a stick |
| 17:24.28 | cesarb | awesomo4k: that's kinda better than my desktop, which CRASHES if you enable cpufreq. Which ubuntu insisted on doing last time I upgraded (which is why I went 6.10->7.04 and got stuck there) |
| 17:25.08 | awesomo4k | ick. |
| 17:25.16 | cesarb | OTOH, cpufreq works fine at work's laptop... which is to say, does nothing, since the CPU there doesn't have frequency switching |
| 17:25.47 | *** join/#openmoko polz_ (n=polz@cpe-90-157-213-131.dynamic.amis.net) |
| 17:26.10 | awesomo4k | looks like om2007.2 is the most full featured dist... and i like python.. would it be safe to use that one ? |
| 17:27.06 | *** join/#openmoko Nanotron (n=Nanotron@p54AE1BC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:27.12 | cesarb | awesomo4k: you have to start somewhere... you can change later, after all |
| 17:27.28 | cesarb | awesomo4k: 2007.2 was cooler because of the (now broken) terminal |
| 17:27.34 | nullpuppy | http://www.5min.com/Video/How-to-Get-Broke-by-Buying-an-iPhone-29134947 |
| 17:27.53 | awesomo4k | that's the default one, right? OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.dev <--- corresponds to om2007.2 |
| 17:27.57 | awesomo4k | ? |
| 17:27.59 | cesarb | awesomo4k: yep |
| 17:28.05 | *** join/#openmoko Varox-DT (n=Varox@p4FD475B1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:29.07 | awesomo4k | that probably seems obvious |
| 17:30.02 | *** join/#openmoko larry_jr (n=Larry@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:31.19 | nomeata | There is no libebook-1.2.pc in the toolchain provided on the wiki page, but there is http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/workdir/staging/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib/pkgconfig/libebook-1.2.pc. Does anyone know whatâs the proper way to get the same toolchain as the daily builder? |
| 17:33.16 | awesomo4k | anyone have problem with PARALLEL_MAKE = "-j 4" in local.conf ? |
| 17:34.03 | Dave | cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese |
| 17:35.07 | rivalarrival | "iPhone 3G. I haven't eaten in days." |
| 17:35.22 | *** part/#openmoko gweeper (n=justin@zoski.net) |
| 17:35.27 | Dave | What? |
| 17:35.34 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=tim@p5B24C669.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:35.44 | rivalarrival | Nullpuppy's link, about 10 minutes ago |
| 17:36.08 | nullpuppy | :) |
| 17:36.21 | awesomo4k | funny :) |
| 17:37.14 | mira | is it posible install openoffice ? |
| 17:37.33 | awesomo4k | /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr is not 0. This will cause problems with qemu so please fix the value (as root). |
| 17:39.40 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * ra412046669db 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.RetrieveMessagebook: validate parameters |
| 17:39.40 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r93379e0819e1 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/ (channel.py parser.py): |
| 17:39.40 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: ok, so my basic low-level parser is out of its depth now that we want to deal with |
| 17:39.42 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: multiline unsolicited responses (+CBM and friends)... So, here's an experimental state-based |
| 17:39.43 | Dave | Haha sweet, this had mercury cells in it |
| 17:39.45 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: parser for lowlevel AT parsing. Disable by default until I have more time to test. |
| 17:39.46 | sitwon | mira: on the Freerunner? wouldn't count on it |
| 17:39.47 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: Until then, +CBM will not be completed. |
| 17:39.49 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: I would really like some explanation on phonekit primitives by the way |
| 17:39.58 | mickeyl | Ainulindale: then you need to ask thomas wood |
| 17:40.00 | mickeyl | he did phonekit |
| 17:40.08 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: now, dialer manages to talk to frameworkd but exits when statuschanged is received |
| 17:40.25 | Ainulindale | And as I don't know what I'm supposed to give to StatusChanged... |
| 17:40.31 | mickeyl | well, check the .xml file |
| 17:40.36 | mickeyl | it needs to be in there, isn't it? |
| 17:40.47 | mickeyl | since this is generated code, you can rely on the xml |
| 17:40.48 | Ainulindale | The expected arguments are there |
| 17:40.53 | Ainulindale | Not what there's supposed to be |
| 17:40.59 | Ainulindale | s/there's/they are/ |
| 17:41.11 | Ainulindale | I know StatusChanged expects an integer |
| 17:41.15 | Ainulindale | But what's this integer, I don't know |
| 17:41.31 | *** join/#openmoko LionKMP (n=lion@catv-5985b8e7.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 17:42.02 | Ainulindale | There's pretty much nothing on the wiki on that part |
| 17:42.17 | mickeyl | yeah. phonekit was undocumented, that's one of the things i didn't like |
| 17:42.32 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=MarcOCha@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:42.34 | mickeyl | i'm afraid you need to check the code |
| 17:42.54 | Ainulindale | That's what I was doing right now :-/ |
| 17:43.10 | MarcOChapeau | good evening |
| 17:44.10 | MarcOChapeau | I'm afraid I have to ask this, since it might already have been asked. doesn't anyone find outrageous the wiki page about the "manual hackish GPS antena repair" ? |
| 17:45.31 | balrog-k1n | outrageous??? |
| 17:45.42 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@16.106.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 17:46.05 | *** join/#openmoko ab0oo (n=johng@c-76-97-204-50.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 17:46.09 | balrog-k1n | will bbl |
| 17:46.12 | rivalarrival | Outrageous, not really. I'd rather have the option than to be forced to ship it back, |
| 17:46.13 | cesarb | MarcOChapeau: nope. Would be only if it was the official recommended way |
| 17:46.32 | cesarb | MarcOChapeau: instead, it looks like someone from the community trying to be helpful |
| 17:46.35 | balrog-k1n | MarcOChapeau: it's what hacking is about :) |
| 17:46.40 | Elleo | what proportion of the phones have the GPS antenna issue? |
| 17:46.53 | MarcOChapeau | cesarb: well, this brings up a second question. Where is the official stuff ? |
| 17:46.55 | cesarb | MarcOChapeau: someone who is good with hardware hacking |
| 17:46.55 | ab0oo | does anyone know 1) how to report bugs in the Qtopia release and 2) if there are any repositories for additional Qtopia packages |
| 17:46.56 | *** join/#openmoko ikerc__ (n=ikerc@AMarseille-151-1-54-109.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:47.08 | ikerc__ | y'a des gens des rmll ? |
| 17:47.12 | Dave | Blarg |
| 17:47.20 | cesarb | MarcOChapeau: the official stuff probably will wait until they are sure that's the cause of the problem and have a plan to fix it |
| 17:47.26 | ikerc__ | comment ca blarg ?. |
| 17:47.31 | MarcOChapeau | heheh |
| 17:47.33 | rivalarrival | Wait - there's OFFICAL stuff? |
| 17:47.38 | ikerc__ | arf parle anglais :) |
| 17:47.58 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 17:48.10 | MarcOChapeau | ikerc__: what did you expect ? french ? |
| 17:48.14 | MarcOChapeau | not a chance... |
| 17:49.01 | MarcOChapeau | cesarb: I hope so. and I hope it's something that can be fixed by software. because there's no way we can all send back our devices for a hardware fix |
| 17:49.20 | Dave | What about the GPS repair? |
| 17:49.38 | Dave | Yeah I'm fairly certain one of mine has a fucked up connector |
| 17:49.43 | ikerc__ | not a chance .... why ? |
| 17:49.48 | Dave | Which after initial use broke off or something |
| 17:49.58 | Dave | It's strange :) |
| 17:50.03 | exco | where do I change date and time in OM? |
| 17:50.14 | MarcOChapeau | ikerc__: because we represent a ridiculous amount of the world population. face it ;-) |
| 17:50.23 | cesarb | MarcOChapeau: if it's a hardware problem, there's no way software can fix it |
| 17:50.33 | cjb | Dave: tried looking at it? |
| 17:50.53 | cjb | well, maybe we can buy a new "external" antenna and fit it inside the case in place of the current one |
| 17:50.59 | MarcOChapeau | cesarb: well, I know. but the previous discussions on the hardware list weren't that clear... |
| 17:51.04 | ab0oo | exco - get a terminal and run ntpdate. |
| 17:51.05 | cjb | that's probably $30-$50, as a worst-case |
| 17:51.14 | ab0oo | there are instructions on the wiki for setting up timezones |
| 17:51.15 | ikerc__ | MarcOChapeau fuck off |
| 17:51.22 | cjb | ikerc__: ? |
| 17:51.24 | exco | thx, ab0oo |
| 17:51.42 | ikerc__ | french maybe toglle the world up :) |
| 17:51.47 | *** join/#openmoko dwb (n=david@pdpc/supporter/active/dwb) |
| 17:52.59 | awesomo4k | is gcc available on the neo yet ? |
| 17:53.24 | sitwon | awesomo4k: it is... but why would you compile on an ARM? |
| 17:53.52 | awesomo4k | well it seems to do everything else |
| 17:54.22 | ikerc__ | no french people issued of the RMLL at mont de marsan ? |
| 17:54.26 | sitwon | compiling on the actual ARM would take forever... cross-compile from a faster machine |
| 17:54.38 | ikerc__ | in juilly first to 6 ? |
| 17:54.43 | ikerc__ | pm plz |
| 17:55.06 | awesomo4k | yeah was just curious .. could be handy for small things here and there |
| 17:55.19 | cesarb | sitwon: but then, imagine the fun of being able to say "my phone can compile a program"! |
| 17:55.23 | exco | is there also a gui option for date time? |
| 17:55.43 | cesarb | awesomo4k: you probably would have to put it on the SD, as gcc is somewhat large... |
| 17:56.10 | sitwon | cesarb: so it's turing complete. awesome. So is just about every other piece of consumer electronics on the market today |
| 17:56.10 | awesomo4k | my first linux install was on a 486 dx2 66 in 1993 |
| 17:56.16 | awesomo4k | it had gcc |
| 17:57.00 | Dave | cute |
| 17:57.41 | cesarb | awesomo4k: yeah, but it (a) probably had more free disk space than you have on the neo and (b) 1993's gcc was smaller |
| 17:58.46 | mjr | well, microsd space is cheap |
| 17:59.10 | mjr | at least I have way more capacity on my neo than on my 486/66 of old :] |
| 17:59.28 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-62-216-215-53.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 17:59.47 | rivalarrival | Epson Equity II w/ 20 mb ISA hard card |
| 17:59.55 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-078-042-063-042.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 18:00.05 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 18:00.10 | rivalarrival | Yo |
| 18:00.55 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:01.36 | retracile | *refresh* Aww, still in San Pablo |
| 18:01.44 | nomeata | johncylee: Hi. At http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2008-May/002913.html you said that you would add opkg-cl to the toolchain, but itâs not in the toolchain I just installed, linked from the wiki package. Where can I find the current toolchain? |
| 18:02.43 | *** join/#openmoko johan___ (n=chatzill@99-11-22-229.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:02.55 | exco | why did you change to opkg? (the nice tab autocompletion doesn't work with that, right?) |
| 18:03.29 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@62.123.180.130) |
| 18:03.34 | *** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@i59F7643E.versanet.de) |
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| 18:13.05 | feitingen | i'm curious about how to power down bluetooth, i sifted through some neod code, and it disables it by setting reset to 1, but does that power it down? |
| 18:14.14 | *** join/#openmoko cdm (n=cdm@pool-71-116-87-174.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 18:15.05 | *** join/#openmoko radiochickenwax (n=user@63.147.40.187) |
| 18:15.08 | cesarb | feitingen: it wasn't reset, it was something else on the pcf sysfs tree |
| 18:15.33 | cjb | feitingen: often placing a device "in reset" is equivalent to powering it off. dunno if that's the case here, though. |
| 18:15.38 | cesarb | feitingen: which cut the power to the bluetooth chipset (or enabled it back again) |
| 18:16.26 | *** join/#openmoko grummel69 (n=christia@cl-13.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 18:17.21 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@unaffiliated/ewanm89) |
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| 18:18.19 | feitingen | cesarb: there is a power_on there, but it doesnt seem to do anything |
| 18:18.44 | awesomo4k | my build is up to task 600 of 6989 ! |
| 18:20.14 | MarcOChapeau | awesomo4k: I've been sitting and watching over my fso build for few hours now. but I'm on a pentium. are you prepared to wait a month to get your image from your neo ? ;-) |
| 18:21.00 | awesomo4k | there's certainly a lot of dependencies i'm noticing |
| 18:21.09 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r4fd796e9f147 10/ (5 files in 2 dirs): add edje for contacts and a menu |
| 18:21.10 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * rff78ad069d18 10/ (10 files in 3 dirs): set the transition target in python and simplify page creation |
| 18:21.11 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r1a3db6b6a8be 10/data/images/ (button_contacts.png button_location.png): restore the old buttons |
| 18:22.26 | rivalarrival | WTF is CIA-42 always blathering about? |
| 18:22.33 | rivalarrival | WTF is CIA-42? |
| 18:22.41 | cesarb | feitingen: CIA-42 is a bot |
| 18:22.54 | cesarb | feitingen: it's showing the commits to some repository somewhere |
| 18:23.01 | CVirus | he's updating us about the status of his mother |
| 18:23.25 | awesomo4k | however recompiling this from scratch on my modern laptop is still probably faster than installing slackware 3.1 from floppies on a 486 |
| 18:23.36 | CVirus | haha |
| 18:23.39 | rivalarrival | Ouch. |
| 18:25.45 | awesomo4k | is there a useable gps/maps package for neo yet ? |
| 18:25.59 | MarcOChapeau | awesomo4k: I'd say tangoGPS |
| 18:26.02 | Elleo | awesomo4k: tangogps |
| 18:26.09 | HdR | mwester: on your website "erify that the new kernel has the correct support by checking that the file /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/flowcontrol exists." you should add an "led" -> /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/flowcontrolled |
| 18:26.17 | Elleo | or navit if you want routing |
| 18:26.29 | Elleo | though my few experiments with navit have generally ended in it crashing |
| 18:26.29 | *** join/#openmoko josch (n=josch@host140.natpool.mwn.de) |
| 18:26.52 | awesomo4k | sweet. |
| 18:26.53 | Elleo | hmm, unfortunately the tangogps site seems to be down today |
| 18:26.59 | awesomo4k | this has all the maps included ? |
| 18:27.00 | summatusmentis | does the neo have a working gps chip? on my n810, the chip takes upwards of 10 minutes to lock |
| 18:27.03 | Elleo | navit is: http://www.navit-project.org/ |
| 18:27.08 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs_ (n=tsdogs@62.123.180.130) |
| 18:27.12 | Elleo | awesomo4k: tango downloads map images from openstreetmap |
| 18:27.31 | Elleo | with navit you build your own binary map file from an openstreetmap file |
| 18:27.43 | *** join/#openmoko dwb (n=david@pdpc/supporter/active/dwb) |
| 18:27.51 | awesomo4k | hmm.,.. i have gta01 hardware |
| 18:28.06 | awesomo4k | no wifi.. tago caches maps though right ? |
| 18:28.12 | Elleo | yeah |
| 18:28.23 | Elleo | you could download the images on a desktop pc if you wanted |
| 18:28.27 | Elleo | then just transfer them to the neo |
| 18:28.28 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: Hmmm, looking at the sources I saw that the UI for dialer2 is truly linked to phone-kit |
| 18:28.38 | Ainulindale | In fact all the screens for incoming/talking are in phone-kit |
| 18:30.19 | awesomo4k | another question... can i plug an external hard drive into the phone and linux will see it as normal ? |
| 18:31.37 | vpv | summatusmentis: in my tests it's about the same and it needs quite good conditions |
| 18:31.55 | summatusmentis | vpv: :-/ ok |
| 18:33.37 | Elleo | awesomo4k: should work I think, though it'll need to be externally powered on the neo1973 (although I think pretty much all usb drives need external power anyway) |
| 18:34.23 | awesomo4k | cool. |
| 18:34.41 | rivalarrival | Will a typical powered USB hub work? |
| 18:35.32 | Elleo | I doubt it for a usb hard drive, they tend to require more than just 500mA |
| 18:35.48 | Elleo | even low powered laptop drives tend to be more power hungry than that I think |
| 18:36.05 | rivalarrival | Will the freerunner charge while in USB host mode? |
| 18:36.31 | Elleo | pass |
| 18:37.53 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178062180.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:37.55 | *** join/#openmoko MTrevi (n=3v1n0@host8-246-static.12-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:38.18 | Lo-lan-do | I doubt powered hubs also provide power to their host side. |
| 18:39.41 | malik1972 | any news from lpotter? |
| 18:39.49 | mjr | Lo-lan-do, they don't, of course |
| 18:39.58 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009013021.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 18:39.59 | rivalarrival | Lo-lan-do: I believe you are correct - however, I also believe that power could be supplied to the host side with a little hacking. |
| 18:40.18 | *** join/#openmoko peje (n=peje@224-48.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 18:40.24 | rivalarrival | Which brings me back to my question - will the phone charge while in host mode? |
| 18:40.38 | malik1972 | lpotter: hi, do you have some gifts for us?;-) |
| 18:40.47 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g226210154.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:41.08 | mjr | rivalarrival, it could. I believe I saw once, search the lists, that the FR could perhaps be configured into host mode but without power output, and with charging. But I don't believe it was a definite statement, rather pondering on the possibility. |
| 18:41.19 | mjr | recommend searching the lists yourself |
| 18:41.42 | rivalarrival | I'll do that. |
| 18:42.18 | Stroller | Elleo: you might be interested in http://www.macpower.com.tw/products/hdd2/clearlight/cl_400plus - it runs off USB power on just about every laptop (many) that I've tried it with. |
| 18:42.40 | Elleo | Stroller: neat |
| 18:43.15 | mjr | yeah 2.5" drives often can work on usb power |
| 18:44.08 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r68b880fd5b6f 10/ (4 files in 2 dirs): make a generic GRID_BUTTON macro and and an location example |
| 18:44.25 | Elleo | anyone have recommendations for a foldable keyboard with a mini usb connector? |
| 18:44.28 | Dave | hahaha |
| 18:44.41 | Dave | NTHGHTHDGDCRTDTRK |
| 18:45.03 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5e2e1.pool.einsundeins.de) |
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| 18:49.48 | awesomo4k | Elleo - i've been looking for a foldable bluetooth kb |
| 18:50.23 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@213.207.221.174) |
| 18:50.32 | Elleo | yeah, I wondered about a bluetooth one, but I'd like to keep battery usage to a minimum |
| 18:50.43 | Elleo | plus they tend to be more expensive |
| 18:51.04 | awesomo4k | and i'm not sure if there's crypto w/bluetooth either |
| 18:51.34 | mickeyl | Ainulindale: yeah, that's bad ("no") separation of UI and logic |
| 18:52.32 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrodf (n=Crfrod@208.65.61.50) |
| 18:52.49 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: so I guess the wrapper thingie is dead then |
| 18:52.58 | Ainulindale | We were wondering with MarcOChapeau about that |
| 18:53.18 | Ainulindale | We were thinking about separating the UI and phone-kit logic, then remapping the logic to frameworkd |
| 18:53.22 | Ainulindale | While still using the UI |
| 18:53.47 | Ainulindale | By the way, besides frameworkd (and possibly kernel), what are the differences between FSO and 2007.2 ? |
| 18:54.28 | *** join/#openmoko behdad1 (n=behdad@91.184.73.53) |
| 18:54.36 | mickeyl | hardly any differences, besides fso now using e-wm and being an EFL UI. it used to use matchbox |
| 18:54.59 | mickeyl | see images/fso-image. the underlying stuff is the same as 2007.2 |
| 18:55.07 | mickeyl | more or less standard OE |
| 18:55.12 | MarcOChapeau | mickeyl: I'm on milestone 1 right now and it's still matchbox. did that change recently ? |
| 18:55.15 | Lo-lan-do | Can one switch to FSO with just opkg, or does one need a full re-flashing? |
| 18:55.36 | MarcOChapeau | Lo-lan-do: reflashing is probably simpler |
| 18:55.40 | mickeyl | MarcOChapeau: yeah. FSO needs a keyboard, so we're trying to reuse raster's illume which contains an on screen keyboard |
| 18:55.56 | Lo-lan-do | MarcOChapeau: Maybe, but I'd like a way back :-) |
| 18:56.26 | MarcOChapeau | Lo-lan-do: hehe, reflash again :-p |
| 18:56.26 | Lo-lan-do | Also, I didn't find much doc on what exactly the NAND and NOR flashes were, nor how they interfere with the system. |
| 18:56.32 | MarcOChapeau | mickeyl: that good to know |
| 18:57.22 | Lo-lan-do | Also, since I haven't found a (proper) way to export my contacts, I'm not sure I want to reflash. |
| 18:57.54 | Lo-lan-do | I tried with the Python DBUS API, but I can't get the list of all contacts :-/ |
| 18:58.10 | *** join/#openmoko z0idberg_ (n=zoidberg@pD9E94F78.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:58.16 | Lo-lan-do | I can only export those whose UID I know, and of course I can't get a list of UIDs. |
| 18:58.25 | tessier | I got my freerunner yesterday, played with it a little, charged it overnight, and now it seems dead and won't turn on. :( |
| 18:59.27 | Chocky | hold button for ages |
| 18:59.37 | Lo-lan-do | tessier: Happened to me a couple of times too. Remove battery and charge cable, then try again. |
| 19:01.13 | tessier | Lo-lan-do: Did that. A few times. |
| 19:01.23 | *** part/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 19:01.50 | tessier | oop |
| 19:01.57 | tessier | It worked that time. Weird. |
| 19:02.01 | Chocky | ssh alias again |
| 19:02.10 | tessier | But only on the second button press after I removed the battery |
| 19:02.28 | *** join/#openmoko anders_ (i=andersg@0x63.nu) |
| 19:02.33 | tessier | I'm not ssh'ing in. I'm just trying to get it to turn back on. It was off when I picked it up this morning. |
| 19:02.58 | summatusmentis | 7http://www.isarapix.org/pix22/1215796631.png |
| 19:03.01 | summatusmentis | :) |
| 19:03.02 | tessier | Today I get to look for a torx 6 screwdriver so I can see if my GPS antenna is broken. |
| 19:03.13 | summatusmentis | - the 7 at the beginning |
| 19:03.44 | *** join/#openmoko Fossi (n=fossi@e176047096.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:03.55 | tessier | summatusmentis: Why is suse shorter? |
| 19:04.16 | Chocky | has to do with it being German |
| 19:04.25 | Chocky | and where's Debian? |
| 19:06.19 | summatusmentis | Chocky: no idea, I just found it |
| 19:06.40 | summatusmentis | also, this was not the channel I was intending to send that to :) |
| 19:07.22 | Chocky | well, it has a torx on it |
| 19:08.07 | Lo-lan-do | I wonder why I keep replacing the back cover. |
| 19:08.22 | Lo-lan-do | I've had to remove the battery like three times today. |
| 19:09.32 | feitingen | Lo-lan-do: i do it too, even if i know i have to remove it again, i hope i dont have to. its the closest thing i will come to religion |
| 19:12.23 | Lo-lan-do | "But maybe this time it won't crash!" |
| 19:12.43 | *** join/#openmoko maskeye (n=maskeye@62-90-76-87.barak.net.il) |
| 19:13.31 | *** part/#openmoko maskeye (n=maskeye@62-90-76-87.barak.net.il) |
| 19:15.40 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net) |
| 19:15.41 | Chocky | hm, uBoot won't have it for booting Debian. settle with chroot for now |
| 19:17.01 | Ainulindale | mickeyl: what is the behaviour of frameworkd regarding the PIN code ? |
| 19:17.42 | mickeyl | frameworkd does not imply behaviour |
| 19:17.49 | mickeyl | you call SetAntennaPower(True) |
| 19:17.53 | *** join/#openmoko Wielki_Tost (n=Wielki@dfw3.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 19:17.54 | mickeyl | then you receive an ok |
| 19:17.58 | mickeyl | or you receive an error |
| 19:18.08 | Ainulindale | So there's no way to give the pin code ? |
| 19:18.08 | mickeyl | the error can contain details like SIM PIN required |
| 19:18.19 | mickeyl | then you can send the PIN with SendAuthCode() |
| 19:18.25 | Ainulindale | Ok :-) |
| 19:18.54 | Ainulindale | I though a good start would be to modify the phone-kit UI to use the appropriate FSO functions |
| 19:19.01 | mickeyl | *nod* |
| 19:19.06 | mickeyl | i agree |
| 19:19.14 | Lo-lan-do | phone-kit being the thing in OM2007.2? |
| 19:19.33 | mickeyl | yep |
| 19:20.02 | Lo-lan-do | (I'm still new here, hope you'll forgive my newbie questions) |
| 19:20.31 | feitingen | hum, i get cme error: 15 when i try to send my pin on some sim cards, does anyone know what it is? |
| 19:21.02 | mickeyl | SIM wrong |
| 19:21.12 | mickeyl | can mean your SIM is no longer allowed to join the network |
| 19:21.27 | mickeyl | or you have exhausted all your auth code tries |
| 19:21.30 | mickeyl | or it's physically broken |
| 19:21.48 | mickey|sofa | bbl |
| 19:22.12 | Chocky | http://db.tidbits.com/article/9690 |
| 19:22.15 | Chocky | hum. |
| 19:24.59 | *** join/#openmoko odiada (n=rmlmb@cpe-24-28-4-203.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 19:29.42 | ecraven | evening :) |
| 19:29.50 | ecraven | are there updates on a new FSO milestone? |
| 19:30.44 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs__ (n=tsdogs@62.123.180.130) |
| 19:33.24 | jakob__ | should the current fso milestone1 image boot? Because if I try the moko can't seem to execute the init process :( |
| 19:33.40 | jakob__ | is this a known problem or am I encountering something new here? |
| 19:34.12 | *** join/#openmoko lector_ (n=lector@89.222.150.19) |
| 19:35.29 | ecraven | it works for me |
| 19:35.44 | jakob__ | hmm thats strange |
| 19:36.00 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs__ (n=tsdogs@62.123.180.130) |
| 19:36.13 | ecraven | do you mean the released milestone, or did you compile yourself? |
| 19:36.26 | jakob__ | the released one. |
| 19:36.36 | ecraven | on a freerunner? |
| 19:36.42 | jakob__ | to be specific this one: http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/Openmoko-fso-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080617-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 19:36.47 | jakob__ | yes |
| 19:36.54 | ecraven | i think that's exactly the one i have |
| 19:37.05 | ecraven | did you flash it with dfu-util? |
| 19:37.20 | ecraven | and did you also flash the kernel that you can download at the same location? |
| 19:37.26 | jakob__ | At the moment I am trying to boot it from sd card |
| 19:37.42 | jakob__ | the kernel loads and finds its root |
| 19:37.46 | ecraven | mickey|sofa: any chance to get working gps (only /dev/ttySAC1, no gpsd or anything) on milestone2 of FSO? |
| 19:37.56 | ecraven | jakob__: i tried, but never got booting from SD card to work |
| 19:38.05 | ecraven | i think noone did, on a freerunner |
| 19:38.22 | jakob__ | but after that it does not seem to be able to execute init |
| 19:38.31 | *** join/#openmoko Bigcheese (n=bigchees@adsl-074-244-041-109.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:38.51 | jakob__ | ecraven: I have successfully booted the image the freerunner was shipped with from sd |
| 19:39.09 | jakob__ | so I don't think the problem is the sd |
| 19:39.11 | *** join/#openmoko lisaAa (n=lisaswit@cxr69-10-88-172-228-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:39.42 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182052081.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:41.00 | ecraven | jakob__: you copied that image to flash, and overwrote the internal memory? |
| 19:41.11 | exco | how do you shutdown gsm from terminal? |
| 19:41.13 | ecraven | i have tried three days, then i gave up, because nothing worked ;( |
| 19:41.21 | malik1972 | os on the 2nd partition of sd card, how can i tell this opkg? -d ?? |
| 19:41.37 | lisaAa | Hi guys, I'm at the end of beta test for my website and looking for feedback from internet savvy people. mind if I post url please? |
| 19:41.46 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs__ (n=tsdogs@62.123.180.130) |
| 19:42.28 | jakob__ | ecraven: I dumped the mtdblock containing the rootfs to my laptop installed it in a mtdram device there. Mounted it and copied the data over to the sd card. After that I had to adapt the bootargs to use ext3 instead of ext2. But it wasn't this hard |
| 19:43.28 | vpv | this is apparently what needs to be done with newer kernels: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/021524.html |
| 19:43.28 | ecraven | jakob__: i did all that, and tried with fso milestone 1 and with asu, neither worked. could you give me the menu_2 (or whatever it is for you) entry of your nand flash? |
| 19:43.43 | jakob__ | sure just a second |
| 19:44.07 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * rf53a099b263d 10/framework/subsystems/ogpsd/ubx.py: ogpsd: Add all the remaining UBX IDs |
| 19:44.13 | nomeata | ok, I managed to compile most of openmoko-messages2, by adding some -dev packages to the toolchain. Now I get this error: |
| 19:44.23 | ecraven | also i only want one partition, no fat boot partition.. |
| 19:44.30 | nomeata | /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib/libjana-gtk.so: undefined reference to `gdk_event_request_motions' |
| 19:44.33 | nomeata | when linking everything |
| 19:44.58 | jakob__ | ecraven: I don't think this is possible. Because the uboot can only read the kernel from fat |
| 19:45.21 | jakob__ | ecraven: I have two partitions on the sd one fat and one ext3 |
| 19:45.21 | nomeata | strangely, /usr/lib/libjana-gtk.so.0 is the only file on my freerunner that seems to contain this symbol. |
| 19:46.09 | ecraven | jakob__: ah, that might be the reason |
| 19:46.26 | jakob__ | why do want only one partition |
| 19:46.38 | jakob__ | I don't see the problem in having two :) |
| 19:48.26 | jakob__ | ecraven: http://nopaste.info/db3b64cd65.html |
| 19:49.46 | ecraven | jakob__: thanks, i'll try that tomorrow |
| 19:49.52 | ecraven | jakob__: i don't see a need for two ;) |
| 19:49.56 | ecraven | minimalism :-p |
| 19:50.03 | jakob__ | ecraven: if you have got a working FSO image in your flash could you tar it with the "-p" option and upload it somewhere for me? Maybe this damn image I have got is just broken |
| 19:50.26 | ecraven | i don't have my phone here, will you be online tomorrow during the day, gmt? |
| 19:50.49 | jakob__ | ecraven: yeah but uboot can only read the kernel from FAT and FAT as rootfs does not make a lot of sense :) Therefore there is a need for two partitions |
| 19:50.55 | *** part/#openmoko vclark (n=vclark@75.148.125.173) |
| 19:50.56 | jakob__ | ecraven: yeah I think I will be here :) |
| 19:51.39 | ecraven | then we'll talk tomorrow, i'll upload it in the morning |
| 19:51.45 | jakob__ | thanks :) |
| 19:51.53 | ecraven | jakob__: change uboot to read from ext2/3 ;) |
| 19:52.45 | jakob__ | *g* that would be the preferred way. But who wants to implement an ext2 reader in uboot? ;) |
| 19:53.55 | ecraven | take one from grub ;) |
| 19:53.55 | *** part/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@HSI-KBW-091-089-007-141.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 19:54.57 | Ainulindale | mickey|sofa: You talked about a SendAuthCode() method for frameworkd but I was wondering where it was |
| 19:55.06 | Ainulindale | Can't see it in ogsmd it sems |
| 19:55.07 | Ainulindale | +e |
| 19:56.48 | Chocky | right, this explains why uboot is getting upset at my Debian setup ;-) |
| 19:57.25 | Chocky | need to poke at uboot and get it to use the kernel in flash but boot from SD |
| 19:57.33 | *** join/#openmoko kennyz (n=kennyz@uralnet.org) |
| 19:57.38 | balrog-k1n | thought there was ext2 in u-boot? |
| 19:57.43 | Chocky | hm |
| 19:58.05 | Chocky | might be. grub does it, it's not super hard |
| 19:58.46 | Ainulindale | mickey|sofa: I said nothing. Just found it. |
| 19:59.31 | balrog-k1n | Chocky: so that doesn't explain why u-boot is getting upset ;) |
| 19:59.34 | Chocky | aye |
| 20:00.02 | Chocky | is trying to recall his past expertise with such things. takes a few days to get up to speed ;-) |
| 20:01.37 | Chocky | pokes Dave |
| 20:02.23 | *** join/#openmoko _kennyz (n=kennyz@uralnet.org) |
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| 20:24.50 | rgl | hellos |
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| 20:49.17 | geekgirl | hello |
| 20:49.52 | summatusmentis | i |
| 20:49.56 | summatusmentis | hi* |
| 20:50.01 | summatusmentis | I quit, ignore me |
| 20:51.13 | *** part/#openmoko geekgirl (n=geekgirl@c-67-162-91-202.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 20:52.47 | awesomo4k | why is my moko build compiling libxinerama isn't that for multiple monitors or something ? |
| 21:01.10 | awesomo4k | how do i enable the display of the X mouse pointer |
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| 21:14.07 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r2b735470915e 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/parser.py: |
| 21:14.07 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: fix SimpleLowlevelAtParser to wrap a unsolicited response line in a list |
| 21:14.07 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: This makes it compatible to StateBasedLowlevelAtParser |
| 21:15.42 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r1a6a05c50529 10/src/zhone: implement dialing from contacts |
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| 21:21.27 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r579c0fcf7cd7 10/src/zhone: fix fake dialer |
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| 22:13.41 | emacsen | waits with baited breathe for lpotter's new qtopia image (which he said he'd release tonight :) ) |
| 22:14.12 | z3cka | what is the current version of U-boot? |
| 22:18.23 | *** join/#openmoko michelecs (n=michelec@82.85.33.128) |
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| 22:26.47 | rgl | ~SHR |
| 22:26.48 | apt | i guess shr is Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release |
| 22:28.28 | edistar | emacsen: do you think one will be able to install qtopia on microSD? |
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| 22:44.04 | emacsen | edistar, no idea. doesn't matter much to me |
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| 22:46.52 | Elleo | edistar: I've had a slightly old version of qtopia booting from an sd card on my htc universal happily enough, so I'd assume doing the same from a microsd wouldn't be problematic |
| 22:48.19 | edistar | Elleo: super, thanks |
| 22:48.24 | Elleo | no problem |
| 22:49.01 | Elleo | it's not blazingly fast, but I think most of that's due to the low memory on the universal since 2007.02 runs quite nicely from an sd |
| 22:51.16 | rgl | are there some sales figures of freerunner? like, how many were sold? |
| 22:51.26 | edistar | Elleo: the shared bus will also be slightly uncomfortable.. |
| 22:51.31 | edistar | rgl: no, not yet |
| 22:52.03 | edistar | when will the qtopia images be ready? |
| 22:52.37 | *** join/#openmoko idoleo (n=idoleo20@201.197.8.34) |
| 22:53.21 | idoleo | hi, area anybody here? do you can help me? is about NVidia drivers |
| 22:53.41 | edistar | idoleo: I didn't know the FR hat an nvidia driver.. |
| 22:54.39 | idoleo | ok,thanks |
| 22:55.06 | Elleo | idoleo: you probably want to try the irc channel for your distribution |
| 22:55.12 | Elleo | they're more likely to be able to help you |
| 22:55.14 | edistar | idoleo: but otherwise, what's the problem? |
| 22:56.31 | *** join/#openmoko quickdev (n=quickdev@p5B05733F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:56.33 | quickdev | Hello |
| 22:58.22 | idoleo | i new in this page, but my problem is with NVidia drivers for 8500GT card |
| 22:59.52 | idoleo | i have FSX and i bought a aircraft addon; the textures are failing and i believe that the problem is the NVIdia´s drivers |
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| 23:00.48 | bricode | rgl: Out of curiosity, why are you interested in sales numbers? |
| 23:01.08 | edistar | idoleo: I think your distro # would help you more there |
| 23:01.27 | rgl | bricode, /me is curiouse(?) |
| 23:01.41 | bricode | rgl: fair enough. |
| 23:01.49 | idoleo | ok, thanks for your help, good day! |
| 23:01.49 | rgl | bricode, I want to known how much a "geek" phone is spreading hehe |
| 23:02.13 | bricode | rgl: it's spreading. |
| 23:03.14 | rgl | bricode, don't get me worn with that "geek" thing, I think openmoko is setting a mark on mobile history *G* |
| 23:03.37 | rgl | has to got one *G* |
| 23:03.44 | rgl | err to get *G* |
| 23:04.32 | dantalizing | can anyone tell me how to configure the usb to be storage when i hook it up, rather than network? |
| 23:04.41 | bricode | rgl: I would agree. But if you want to be famous, you should be careful of what you want to be famous for... |
| 23:05.16 | rgl | bricode, I don't want fame hehe |
| 23:05.32 | bricode | rgl: No I meant the Openmoko project. |
| 23:06.32 | rgl | bricode, ah, but I think it's got that fame right now, don't you agree? I mean, the software does not seem to there yet, so mere mortals can't use it yet, I guess *G* |
| 23:06.51 | edistar | dantalizing: you could install samba on the neo and export shares via usb |
| 23:07.14 | bricode | rgl: I would say it's currently on the cusp. Could go famous, or could fade over time. |
| 23:07.36 | Chocky | takes forver to update Debian on FR :| |
| 23:07.39 | bricode | rgl: Working software will be a huge requirement for the general public. |
| 23:07.53 | Chocky | don't have enough space to download all the updates. gotta be done piecemeal |
| 23:08.00 | edistar | Chocky: it's debian! on a 400mhz, super slow flash! what do you expect? |
| 23:08.13 | Chocky | edit: main problem is space |
| 23:08.16 | edistar | Chocky: get an 8gb card, then it's fun |
| 23:08.24 | Chocky | has already deleted lots of unneeded stuff |
| 23:08.36 | shoragan | Chocky, did you disable atime? |
| 23:08.37 | Chocky | yeah, those gigabits ;-) |
| 23:08.45 | Chocky | ahem, er, no ;-) |
| 23:08.45 | *** join/#openmoko netx303 (n=rlange@horus.darkempire.org) |
| 23:08.49 | Chocky | goes and does so |
| 23:09.01 | Chocky | so embarassed |
| 23:09.04 | dantalizing | edistar: so by default i cant set up to just connect to a computer and then drag & drop files to the sd? |
| 23:09.09 | rgl | bricode, if it doesn't hurry up, I'm affraid of latter :/ |
| 23:09.44 | bricode | rgl: I'd agree. Projects like this require critical mass to sustain it. |
| 23:09.55 | Chocky | I think it has that mass already |
| 23:10.00 | Chocky | but it will take time no matter what |
| 23:10.10 | edistar | dantalizing: not yet |
| 23:10.14 | rgl | bricode, I think android is set to be freed this year; but I'm affraid it doesn't run out of the box in OM |
| 23:10.23 | Chocky | or at least it will this week, once deliveries complete |
| 23:10.27 | dantalizing | edistar: thx |
| 23:10.33 | edistar | rgl: a company is working on porting android to the FR |
| 23:10.39 | bricode | rgl: It will be interesting to see how that plays out. |
| 23:11.06 | rgl | edistar, cool :D |
| 23:11.27 | bricode | Chocky: Yeah, it's a chicken and egg problem. Need enough developers with hardware to develop. Costs money to develop/manufacture the hardware initially. |
| 23:11.50 | Chocky | yes, but they're shipping now. hard part is done. |
| 23:11.53 | rgl | bricode, indeed. :D |
| 23:12.21 | Chocky | still very dubious about Andriod in terms of freeness |
| 23:12.28 | shoragan | edistar, which company? |
| 23:12.48 | bricode | Chocky: The hard part is actually adoption by a larger audience than technophiles. |
| 23:12.56 | Chocky | anyway, OpenMoko's stuff is here now. Android isn't. |
| 23:13.08 | rgl | Chocky, I think everyone will be very disapointed with them if its some sort of not quite open as they make it *G* |
| 23:13.24 | Chocky | same with that Linux phone wotsit. that's stupid closed |
| 23:13.26 | edistar | shoragan: can't remember.. |
| 23:13.35 | edistar | shoragan: W.E. or so |
| 23:13.48 | edistar | Chocky: motorola |
| 23:13.50 | bricode | shoragan: Koolu / WorksEverywhere. |
| 23:13.54 | shoragan | edistar, they would need to have access to the source, the current binaries are not compatible with the neo's cpu |
| 23:14.13 | *** join/#openmoko russellb (n=russell@asterisk/developer-and-stable-maintainer/drumkilla) |
| 23:14.24 | balrog-k1n | android was already quite disappointing with not having anything really innovative ui-wise |
| 23:14.46 | balrog-k1n | not sayign that openmoko isn't disappoing in various ways :p |
| 23:15.08 | Chocky | yes, but not in any way that hasn't been shown to be fixable in the past |
| 23:15.20 | edistar | shoragan: yes, there was someone from that company in this channel yesterday |
| 23:16.04 | balrog-k1n | most of the cpu incompatibilities have been worked around already |
| 23:16.16 | bricode | In the essence of full disclosure, I am affiliated with Koolu. |
| 23:18.43 | rgl | bricode, so you already have access to android source code? |
| 23:19.03 | bricode | rgl: I can't comment on that. |
| 23:19.46 | rgl | bricode, if the koolu about page is correct, you have *G* |
| 23:20.09 | cdm | I'm waiting for the 3rd contender... |
| 23:20.31 | rgl | the FR has that virtual keyboard led thing? like show in http://koolu.com/About/About-Koolu.html ? that seems a footage, but... |
| 23:20.31 | shoragan | the way i see it right now, is that even if google releases all the android source, it doesn't fit with the normal gnu/linux userspace |
| 23:20.55 | shoragan | they have used just the kernel and written their own userspace in java/dalvik |
| 23:21.08 | rgl | cdm, any ideia who? |
| 23:21.16 | cdm | rgl: yes. :) |
| 23:21.25 | shoragan | rgl, that virtual keyboard is not real ;) |
| 23:21.32 | rgl | cdm, spread the fud ;-) |
| 23:21.34 | mjr | shoragan, indeed, it's primarily a vm system that happens to use the linux kernel |
| 23:21.46 | cdm | rgl: nope. Not yet. |
| 23:21.51 | rivalarrival | bricode: You look like the geek from Oceans {11|12|13} |
| 23:21.58 | cdm | although it shouldn't be hard to figure out who I mean. |
| 23:21.59 | bricode | rivalarrival: Thanks. |
| 23:22.41 | bricode | shoragan: Actually, the concept can be found here: http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8193/ it works under Linux. |
| 23:23.15 | bricode | rgl: That image is an illustration of a future vision. |
| 23:23.20 | rgl | cdm, qnx? *G* |
| 23:23.41 | shoragan | bricode, yes i know the concept, it's just that there is *no* space left in the FR case |
| 23:23.45 | shoragan | ;) |
| 23:23.58 | bricode | shoragan: That is quite true. |
| 23:24.05 | cdm | rgl: no. |
| 23:24.13 | shoragan | balrog-k1n, can i read about the workarounds somewhere? |
| 23:24.14 | rivalarrival | Need bigger case... Expansion back? |
| 23:24.23 | cdm | rgl: Although there was a time that was possible. But then I left. |
| 23:24.33 | balrog-k1n | shoragan: yep, at http://benno.id.au/blog/2007/11/21/android-neo1973 |
| 23:25.37 | cdm | bbiab |
| 23:26.02 | shoragan | balrog-k1n, i read that article some time ago, and it seem like it was practically a dead end |
| 23:26.06 | Elleo | dantalizing: you might be able to get it to behave as a usb mass storage device by using the g_file_storage driver, but it probably wouldn't be trivial to get working |
| 23:26.40 | balrog-k1n | shoragan: there is exactly one armv5 instruction that the author of that text couldn't work around, i think (but haven't tried) it would be possible to replace this instruction with a dummy arm breakpoint in the decompressed binaries and implement the instruction in the kernel |
| 23:27.00 | mwester | ~logs |
| 23:27.01 | apt | i guess logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz |
| 23:27.11 | ayeuu | hi there, sorry for my lame question but : is there an easy way/howto for putting the latest snapshot in the micro sd card for testing it in "live" ? (without breaking anything) |
| 23:27.40 | balrog-k1n | shoragan: i assume that their vm doesn't generate code on the fly like java JIT does, or that if it does that then it doesn't use the blx insns |
| 23:27.46 | shoragan | balrog-k1n, interesting, that should work (but is probably not easy to do) |
| 23:28.07 | bricode | balrog-k1n: I thought it had more to do with the inlined 16-bit thumb instructions that couldn't be converted from the ARMv5 to ARMv4 thumb extensions... |
| 23:28.12 | edistar | ayeuu: of course, uboot already has boot from sd and you just need to copy the rootfs to the card |
| 23:28.58 | ayeuu | ok, thx a lot; i have to format the sd to ext3 or something like that ? |
| 23:28.58 | edistar | ayeuu: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD |
| 23:29.00 | balrog-k1n | bricode: iirc the thumb mode in armv5 has only the same additions as non-thumb, since armv4 |
| 23:29.03 | ayeuu | thx :) |
| 23:29.07 | edistar | ayeuu: ext3, yes |
| 23:30.32 | Dave | How's it coming, Chocky? |
| 23:30.55 | bricode | balrog-k1n: Ah. It's how the processor jumps back from thumb mode that's different. |
| 23:31.48 | balrog-k1n | bricode: oh, yeah, reading it again now :p |
| 23:32.04 | balrog-k1n | bricode: so the bx instruction would need to be replaced with a trap |
| 23:33.11 | balrog-k1n | oops, nope, the pop instruction :p |
| 23:36.08 | bricode | balrog-k1n: At the very least. If it's even possible to jump back to the proper ARM code location. |
| 23:36.36 | Chocky | Dave: slow, muh. got distracted by using my neighbor's Ripstik |
| 23:37.03 | bricode | 's FR just crashed. |
| 23:37.13 | Chocky | took your time ;-) |
| 23:38.05 | balrog-k1n | another idea is to trap jumps to a bogus address, which linux doesn't do currently, currently it can only trap (and emulate) undefined instruction, but in theory you can trap code prefetch aborts |
| 23:39.32 | feitingen | does anyone know if bluez-audio will be/is ported to the freerunner? |
| 23:39.39 | SpeedEvil | It's there. |
| 23:39.41 | SpeedEvil | AIUI |
| 23:39.49 | SpeedEvil | It's just not properly setup |
| 23:40.44 | feitingen | i tired to set it up as i did on my laptop, but mplayer complains about /usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_pcm_bluetooth.so being non-existing |
| 23:40.45 | SpeedEvil | Pu-238 - also keeps your head warm. |
| 23:41.18 | feitingen | google says it is usually part of bluez-audio or bluez-utils-alsa |
| 23:42.39 | quickdev | Is it possible to setup wlan with the original Freerunner image? I get several errors: "ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]: Operation not supported" and "Failed to set encryption." |
| 23:42.48 | Chocky | no |
| 23:42.53 | Chocky | you need to update the kernel at the least |
| 23:44.20 | quickdev | the wiki kernel page doesn't mentions prebuild images for gta02, are there some? |
| 23:44.29 | SpeedEvil | quickdev: yes |
| 23:44.38 | SpeedEvil | quickdev: I don't off-hand know where. |
| 23:47.09 | quickdev | would be fine to know ;) |
| 23:48.52 | quickdev | ah, found it on the buildhost |
| 23:51.59 | *** join/#openmoko batti (n=batti@p5B14C3F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:57.08 | Dave | Greetings, Speedy :) |
| 23:58.06 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 23:59.14 | cjb | evenin'. |
| 23:59.39 | cjb | is getting excited about prerendering map tiles for MA on his freerunner and not getting lost on his bike so much.. |
