| 00:00.07 | ieatlint | they'll help it go through... get them to stay on the phone while you order |
| 00:00.19 | niklauz | who OM? |
| 00:00.22 | linuxxr | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:00.24 | ieatlint | no, your cc company |
| 00:00.37 | linuxxr | 4th@ |
| 00:00.51 | niklauz | hmm, mkay |
| 00:01.12 | ieatlint | i used to work at ikea, and people would get purchases declined all the time |
| 00:01.45 | ieatlint | they'd move across the country and then try and spend a couple grand there and their cc company would block it... they'd make a 5 min call and then it'd go through |
| 00:02.14 | linuxxr | at the last i was putting the last 4 didgets of me bank # an it was asking for the last 4 #'s of me ss # |
| 00:02.24 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja_ (n=zefanja@drsd-4db355c0.pool.einsundeins.de) |
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| 00:23.21 | Railer | whos home |
| 00:23.40 | Railer | ? |
| 00:24.41 | alphabeat | I'm at work. Kind of like a 2nd home |
| 00:27.01 | SirBob1701 | whats the delivery time gonna be for standard shipping on US phones? |
| 00:27.43 | Railer | what does everyone think of the name "Free Runner"? |
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| 00:41.27 | ljp | better than neo1973 |
| 00:50.02 | wurp2|away | Does anyone remember the name of the home app on 2007.2? |
| 00:50.17 | wurp2|away | Railer: I hated it at first. Now I just don't think about it; it's just a word. |
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| 01:25.34 | GirlRiver | I am trying to get the auto emulation in ubuntu running. I have compiles QEMU source code in Hardy but when it boots I have an unresponsive emulator ... I don;t think I have compiled it incorrectly have I missed something ? |
| 01:26.03 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5e04f.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 01:31.25 | SpeedEvil | What does it do? |
| 01:31.52 | SpeedEvil | It will take several-many minutes to boot, as it's 10-40% speed of teh real device |
| 01:36.58 | GirlRiver | SpeedEvil, I get the picture with the 4 icons (phone, Q, Star and Lock) and a message in the middle of the screen saying No Network but all are unresponsive |
| 01:39.15 | SpeedEvil | Sorry, not used qemu. |
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| 01:41.52 | GirlRiver | SpeedEvil: ok thanks |
| 01:42.08 | GirlRiver | can anyone else help ? |
| 01:42.40 | SpeedEvil | You;'ve tried another image? |
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| 01:56.37 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5e04f.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 01:57.33 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes_ (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 01:58.40 | niklauz | btw what image is the FR shipping w/ ? |
| 01:58.55 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 02:00.59 | Dave | Greetings, friends. |
| 02:03.11 | nullpuppy | niklauz: i *think* its shipping with the latest stable 2007.2 |
| 02:03.15 | ferric | oy Dave! |
| 02:03.15 | nullpuppy | (from april-ish iirc) |
| 02:03.27 | nullpuppy | please correct me if i'm mistaken |
| 02:03.35 | SpeedEvil | It is |
| 02:03.43 | SpeedEvil | though I don't think it's as early as april |
| 02:04.21 | nullpuppy | ok |
| 02:04.33 | nullpuppy | i thought i heard april somewhere, but i don't recall where. |
| 02:04.46 | nullpuppy | and i may not be remembering correctly :) |
| 02:05.07 | Dave | April Software Update (ASU) ? |
| 02:05.19 | Dave | One of these terrible meaningless acronyms. |
| 02:05.33 | ferric | hah. |
| 02:05.57 | djp | so who's got one already ? |
| 02:06.26 | ferric | doesn't have one. |
| 02:06.31 | djp | my LUG is trying to arrange a group-buy |
| 02:06.49 | linuxxr | geterdone |
| 02:06.52 | wastrel | interesting. |
| 02:07.03 | wastrel | is there a volume discount? |
| 02:07.14 | djp | yup |
| 02:07.24 | linuxxr | 30 dollars |
| 02:07.29 | djp | it's like buy 9 get one free |
| 02:07.43 | wastrel | that would be cool also people smarter than me could help me get it set up fancy |
| 02:07.49 | wastrel | but my lug is generally useless |
| 02:07.55 | djp | always good ;-) |
| 02:08.02 | linuxxr | 4 g's |
| 02:08.09 | djp | mine's dubious at best |
| 02:08.11 | Dave | you buy it you buy it! |
| 02:08.12 | *** join/#openmoko MrTuttle (n=hklein@i59F73320.versanet.de) |
| 02:08.44 | djp | I'm buying one hell or high water, but I WOULD like to hear from earliest adopters |
| 02:09.20 | wastrel | comment thread on boingboing made me want to wait a bit. |
| 02:09.22 | ferric | is going to stick to the gta01 |
| 02:09.28 | wastrel | also lack of money :] |
| 02:09.45 | niklauz | lol @ lug bashing |
| 02:10.37 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:10.50 | SpeedEvil | It's not consumer electronics. |
| 02:10.56 | SpeedEvil | consumer-ready |
| 02:11.00 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack_ (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5f9bf.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 02:11.04 | niklauz | o o i was wondering about that |
| 02:11.23 | SpeedEvil | It's not even really a functional phone unless you're very technical, and relatively unpicky about stuff like missed calls. |
| 02:11.28 | linuxxr | but u can buy 1 an help wit the software for no extra cost |
| 02:11.36 | niklauz | when u say probable yuo mean thats what it'll be eventually? |
| 02:11.53 | SpeedEvil | niklauz: yes - based on understanding the hardware. |
| 02:12.02 | SpeedEvil | niklauz: the software simply isn't there yet. |
| 02:12.37 | niklauz | if that goal is acheivable that is totally incredible |
| 02:12.39 | linuxxr | comeon BUY 1 |
| 02:13.00 | niklauz | what do you think needs to happen? as in roadblocks or milestones |
| 02:13.16 | linuxxr | hackage |
| 02:13.21 | SpeedEvil | niklauz: about 10+ seperate little power managment tweaks. |
| 02:13.42 | niklauz | tell me, i'm very curious about this |
| 02:14.03 | djp | niklauz: simple, get 'em out there into the hands of hackers who won't be able to stand the shortcomings, and will fix it. |
| 02:14.08 | niklauz | i might not even use mine as a phone, so it's a big deal for me |
| 02:14.19 | niklauz | :-) |
| 02:15.08 | linuxxr | the keyboard is needing some att |
| 02:15.38 | wastrel | is HWR planned? |
| 02:15.47 | nullpuppy | hwr? |
| 02:15.52 | wastrel | handwriting recognition? |
| 02:15.56 | nullpuppy | oh |
| 02:16.02 | nullpuppy | hmm, that'd be nifty |
| 02:16.02 | niklauz | what about RAWR!!! ??? |
| 02:16.13 | niklauz | bear powered, ver eco-friendly |
| 02:19.48 | djp | wastrel: what comment on boingboing spooked you ? |
| 02:20.43 | wastrel | #3, wurp's |
| 02:21.06 | wastrel | mostly the battery life thing which i am very intolerant about |
| 02:21.09 | djp | I'm not getting 24 hours wait time out of my crappt Motorola razr, that's fer sher |
| 02:22.03 | djp | as I only get about 9 minutes life outta my ThinkpadT20, 6 hours sound like heaven |
| 02:22.26 | djp | I only half look at the thing as a phone |
| 02:23.00 | *** part/#openmoko jason_m (n=jason@c-71-201-190-24.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 02:23.29 | wastrel | batteryrefill.com <3 |
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| 02:28.11 | Dave | :o |
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| 03:13.40 | wastrel | speaking of LUGs, anyone NYC-area want to do an openmoko presentation? |
| 03:15.30 | *** join/#openmoko Tanuva (n=tanuva@e177229216.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 03:16.16 | vclark | Hello. I'm looking for any input on which band to buy (850 or 900). Haven't found anything on the wiki to answer my question. |
| 03:16.26 | vclark | I live i north america. |
| 03:16.30 | vclark | in |
| 03:16.39 | SpeedEvil | 850 |
| 03:16.45 | rtm | If you live in the US, you probably want the 850. |
| 03:16.51 | SpeedEvil | There is a link on the sop page |
| 03:16.53 | vclark | I do limited international travel |
| 03:17.01 | vclark | and my carrier is t-mobile |
| 03:17.08 | vclark | which uses 1900 |
| 03:17.16 | vclark | but has roaming deals for 850 |
| 03:17.29 | vclark | So I guess the question is... |
| 03:17.42 | vclark | How much do I really need 850? |
| 03:18.05 | vclark | I've been using a Sony-Erricsson p900 for about five years |
| 03:18.12 | vclark | which is 900/1800/1900 |
| 03:18.20 | vclark | I notice the coverage gaps |
| 03:18.33 | vclark | But it has gotten significantly better |
| 03:19.31 | vclark | what is "sop"? |
| 03:21.58 | *** part/#openmoko Quadduc (n=quadduc@90.149.198.188) |
| 03:24.24 | *** join/#openmoko johncylee (n=john@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 03:25.07 | SuN | John's using the firewall for IRC again :/ |
| 03:25.31 | SpeedEvil | vclark: depends on where you are |
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| 03:25.37 | SpeedEvil | vclark: shop |
| 03:25.55 | SpeedEvil | vc 'which freq2uency do I need' or something. |
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| 03:35.53 | Dave | Hmm |
| 03:42.39 | ieatlint | actually the answer for him is to go to tmobile's website |
| 03:42.57 | ieatlint | tmobile does have 850 roaming agreements, but only in a handful of places |
| 03:44.29 | ieatlint | their website will show coverage and tell you if it is 850 or 1900... |
| 03:44.41 | ieatlint | any metro area is 1900 |
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| 03:51.27 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa__ (n=abraxa@pD95FDED1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:51.56 | ljp | waits for gta02 to flash.... |
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| 03:55.25 | kdubois | where is the phone to US purchasers being shipped from / do we get a tracking number? |
| 03:58.55 | nullpuppy | kdubois: rumor has it that its shipping from fremont, ca on monday |
| 03:59.08 | nullpuppy | givin its from ups, we'll probably get trakcing numbers |
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| 03:59.55 | kdubois | nullpuppy: thanks! |
| 04:00.03 | nullpuppy | no prob ;) |
| 04:00.37 | bkruse | ello puppet |
| 04:00.49 | bkruse | What's up guys? |
| 04:02.14 | nullpuppy | not much, playing some d&D |
| 04:03.37 | SpeedEvil | 4e? |
| 04:03.41 | nullpuppy | yup |
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| 04:37.43 | jdavis_ | can I use a freerunner as a voip phone? |
| 04:39.24 | nullpuppy | yes, though, the software to do that likely isn't there yet |
| 04:39.56 | nullpuppy | well, potentially, not necessarily yes (yet) ;) |
| 04:41.16 | jdavis_ | Ok. I don't think I can use it as my every-day phone yet, but if it was a voip phone I'd be able to play with it without too much expense. |
| 04:41.59 | jdavis_ | Maybe I can just get a really cheap plan or something. |
| 04:43.15 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@h-60-229.A163.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 04:44.18 | SpeedEvil | voip - over - wifi, yes. |
| 04:44.31 | SpeedEvil | Not over GPRS - it's got too much delay |
| 04:44.45 | ljp | qtopia can do voip |
| 04:45.28 | alphabeat | hehe. voip over gprs |
| 04:45.57 | alphabeat | a few people have suggested using asterix in conjunction jdavis_ if that's an option |
| 04:50.46 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 04:56.57 | lindi- | "push to talk" style communications might work over grps? |
| 05:05.11 | *** join/#openmoko Zoup (n=Zoup@78.110.121.1) |
| 05:07.52 | jdavis_ | SpeedEvil: oh, perfect! |
| 05:09.21 | jdavis_ | alphabeat: Use asterisk how? I need to get a voip service anyway, so won't they be the ones with asterisk? |
| 05:12.04 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 05:13.36 | pmw | Has anyone gotten Freerunner to act as a dial-up modem yet? |
| 05:16.55 | Zoup | pmw: is that technically possible ? |
| 05:17.00 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 05:17.19 | SpeedEvil | With the right config, it can in theory act like a bluetooth modem. |
| 05:17.19 | alphabeat | jdavis_: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/017310.html |
| 05:17.32 | jdavis_ | alphabeat: thanks, reading now. |
| 05:18.10 | alphabeat | for DUN, in theory, you should be able to just set the phone as the gateway? |
| 05:18.16 | nullpuppy | hmm, I don't suppose there is an explanation anywhere of the om svn layout is there? |
| 05:20.31 | jdavis_ | What do people here recommend for memory to accompany the freerunner. I see kingston 4GB microSD for about $30, but I don't see anything much larger than that. |
| 05:20.49 | *** join/#openmoko BDo (n=bdonnett@linagoraberri.pck.nerim.net) |
| 05:20.59 | alphabeat | nullpuppy: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Using_Subversion is this what you're after? |
| 05:21.48 | alphabeat | jdavis_: there is talk of 8GB working on the mailing lists IIRC http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards |
| 05:22.41 | jdavis_ | alphabeat: thanks again. reading... |
| 05:23.52 | nullpuppy | jdavis_: amazon.com had an 8gb card for like $36 |
| 05:23.57 | *** join/#openmoko bkruse (n=bkruse@76.73.154.120) |
| 05:24.58 | nullpuppy | alphabeat: hmm, not really, but that'll do. was more interested in how things were layed out in the repo. |
| 05:25.00 | *** part/#openmoko bkruse (n=bkruse@76.73.154.120) |
| 05:25.02 | jdavis_ | nullpuppy: wow, cool. I'll get the phone first, and then experiment from there (although $36 is a cheap experiment). |
| 05:25.11 | nullpuppy | yeah |
| 05:26.15 | jdavis_ | When I get a freerunner, do I even need to tell my provider anything, or can I just pop the SIM card out of my current phone and into the freerunner? |
| 05:26.26 | SpeedEvil | jdavis_: pop! |
| 05:26.40 | jdavis_ | SpeedEvil: wow, this is sounding more and more plausible. |
| 05:26.55 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 05:27.16 | SpeedEvil | Some providers may in principle bar unknown IMEIs from their network, but I haven't heard of one that actually does. |
| 05:27.43 | jdavis_ | SpeedEvil: I think I'll need two phones, realistically, so I'll just add a line, which appears to only be about $10 extra |
| 05:30.22 | Zoup | I wonder if free runner has support for normal SD cards |
| 05:30.30 | Zoup | since they provide one with package ... |
| 05:30.58 | nullpuppy | i think that might be an adapter |
| 05:31.12 | Zoup | they said 512MB sd card ... |
| 05:31.37 | nullpuppy | yeah, its a 512mb micro-sd, the std sized one is an adapter |
| 05:31.48 | nullpuppy | so you can read the micro-sd card in a normal card reader or whatever |
| 05:32.03 | nullpuppy | at least tahts what it looks like from the picture |
| 05:32.44 | Zoup | aaha , so that is 512MB microsd and an adaptor for normal SD's |
| 05:33.09 | ieatlint | yeah, and without a camera, 512mb will be pretty decent... unless you plan on using it as an mp3 player |
| 05:33.28 | ieatlint | or a video player... seeing as it has a hardware mpeg4 decoder |
| 05:33.42 | Zoup | yep , good idea! |
| 05:34.10 | ieatlint | ... or to put maps on it for some sort of gps nav program .... too many ors :( |
| 05:34.12 | Zoup | i don't know if that support 8GB micro sd cards yet or not |
| 05:35.02 | goodwill | Zoup: FR has a hardware mpeg4 decoder? |
| 05:35.29 | ieatlint | the hw specs say it does |
| 05:35.53 | alphabeat | the playback rate at fullscreen is less than desirable though (10fps at 640x480 i think) |
| 05:36.13 | alphabeat | qvga (320x240) is fine at 25fps says raster |
| 05:36.39 | nullpuppy | SDHC is listed as supported, so the 8G looks like it should work. |
| 05:36.53 | goodwill | thats =kinda odd |
| 05:36.57 | goodwill | thats kinda odd |
| 05:36.58 | ieatlint | huh, where is the bottleneck that it can only pull 10fps at vga? |
| 05:37.13 | goodwill | with screen that size, it would need to be full screen |
| 05:37.36 | goodwill | meh |
| 05:39.13 | ieatlint | http://www.smediatech.com/product3362.htm is the hardware decoder (the 3362) |
| 05:40.50 | *** join/#openmoko grinich (n=grinich@66-224-185-202.atgi.net) |
| 05:42.24 | alphabeat | ieatlint: i'll try and find a source |
| 05:43.10 | ieatlint | thanks :) |
| 05:43.55 | *** join/#openmoko crib- (n=chris@port-195-158-167-6.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 05:44.05 | alphabeat | ieatlint: here's something: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Media_Player#Questions_and_Answers |
| 05:44.17 | alphabeat | i'm not entirely sure myself so you'll have to ask raster when he's online next |
| 05:44.42 | alphabeat | could be the limited bus or the lack of 3d acceleration... |
| 05:45.40 | ieatlint | well, supposedly that is 3d accel too |
| 05:45.52 | ieatlint | but yeah, the bus... or perhaps some sort of ram issue |
| 05:46.03 | alphabeat | ieatlint: this is relevant: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:Video_Player |
| 05:46.07 | ieatlint | that says it uses "a lot" of flash |
| 05:47.03 | *** join/#openmoko atul (n=qvantel@61.16.248.242) |
| 05:47.08 | nullpuppy | well, iirc, the 3d-accel is on the same, slow bus as the s-card |
| 05:48.05 | ieatlint | ah, that could indeed be a problem |
| 05:48.06 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=ufo@host86-132-96-196.range86-132.btcentralplus.com) |
| 05:48.23 | alphabeat | hmm. have a read of this thread: http://markmail.org/message/lb2tink2w6z4wfca#query:related%3Alb2tink2w6z4wfca+page:1+mid:v6ldwbctupaxshqd+state:results |
| 05:49.05 | alphabeat | ieatlint: specifically this: http://markmail.org/message/w4nlpxth25cefbra |
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| 05:52.05 | ieatlint | hmm |
| 05:52.08 | ieatlint | so yeah, a bus bottleneck |
| 05:52.22 | ieatlint | and i would bet that usb is on that same bus |
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| 05:54.14 | nullpuppy | yeah, so, its limited, but not horrible. |
| 05:54.18 | ieatlint | although some of the stats it says are either typos or something |
| 05:54.29 | tessier | wonders if/when he will get shipping info for the phone he bought the other day |
| 05:54.32 | ieatlint | because who even wants video on their phone at 1MBps? |
| 05:54.41 | *** join/#openmoko kvk (n=vinu@61.16.248.242) |
| 05:54.47 | nullpuppy | tessier_: me too. i want to know when i'll have it in my hands ;) |
| 05:54.49 | tessier | I paid extra for 3 day so hopefully they get it out promptly |
| 05:55.17 | nullpuppy | tessier_: where abouts do you live? |
| 05:55.33 | tessier | nullpuppy: San Diego, CA USA |
| 05:55.54 | ieatlint | well, it may be possible to also use a different resolution other than vga for playing videos |
| 05:56.12 | ieatlint | shrugs |
| 05:56.35 | alphabeat | yeah qvga is entirely possible |
| 05:57.08 | ieatlint | could be annoying as hell to switch resolutions though, although qvga on such a small screen probably would look just fine |
| 05:57.55 | alphabeat | it doesnt' look like usb is on the same bus as the glamo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware |
| 05:57.55 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@242.84-48-176.nextgentel.com) |
| 05:58.35 | alphabeat | S3C2442 is the evaluation board that a lot of stuff is attached to (like the CPU) so maybe not? i'm just speculating |
| 05:59.23 | ieatlint | well, if that's the case, it potentially could work with like a flash drive in the usb slot |
| 05:59.40 | ieatlint | wouldn't be the nicest setup, but yeah.. |
| 05:59.47 | SpeedEvil | no - th 2442 is the cpu |
| 06:00.02 | alphabeat | oh ok |
| 06:00.17 | alphabeat | http://www.meritech.co.kr/products/product_view.php?num=52 |
| 06:00.22 | alphabeat | looks like a mini computer |
| 06:00.44 | alphabeat | "embedded device" would be more appropriate |
| 06:01.25 | *** join/#openmoko jaypro (n=jaypro@adsl-75-49-44-161.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:04.40 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F43F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 06:08.34 | SpeedEvil | The S3C2442 is the SoC - system on a chip. It's got the CPU, UART, LCD driver, ... on it. It can be used in many applicaions - and is in the freerunner |
| 06:09.20 | *** join/#openmoko two3four (n=erik@81-233-151-113-no82.business.telia.com) |
| 06:09.21 | alphabeat | ahhsoo |
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| 06:21.59 | Zoup | what are these!! http://koolu.com/WE-Phone/WE-Phone-Introduction.html , Free runners ? |
| 06:23.57 | alphabeat | yeah this came up on the mailing list once |
| 06:24.40 | Zoup | they call theis phones WE Phone , is free runner is under BSD License ? no sign of openmoko on phones |
| 06:25.23 | alphabeat | michael shiloh says they're a distributor: http://markmail.org/message/c5yot24r6o7ef2la |
| 06:25.58 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=ufo@host86-132-96-196.range86-132.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 06:27.19 | nullpuppy | hahaha, and osx images in the picture.... |
| 06:27.48 | mbuf | i bet they wanted people to mumble-jumble "Wii" |
| 06:28.16 | nullpuppy | yeah, probably |
| 06:28.24 | nullpuppy | looks like its supposedly running android |
| 06:29.27 | kvk | When im compiling my package using standalone makefile im getting error, the error is in " URL: http://rafb.net/p/jQBWMU47.html ". can anyone help me in solving this error?? |
| 06:30.49 | polz | hmm... can't they be sued for misleading advertising ? |
| 06:31.43 | polz | I mean, this WE-Phone is obviously a FreeeRunner, but AFAIK the features described on the page don't work yet due to software issues |
| 06:33.02 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
| 06:33.39 | mbuf | polz, like what happened to "Lindows" |
| 06:34.28 | *** join/#openmoko ernst (i=ernst@d003057.adsl.hansenet.de) |
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| 06:36.11 | *** join/#openmoko methril (n=Methril@213.27.233.98) |
| 06:36.24 | methril | morning |
| 06:37.22 | *** join/#openmoko grinich (n=grinich@66-224-185-202.atgi.net) |
| 06:37.35 | alphabeat | oh hi |
| 06:37.39 | ferric | o hai. |
| 06:39.35 | *** join/#openmoko evolux (n=evolux@e176226003.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 06:44.00 | nullpuppy | huh, maddog is part of koolu |
| 06:44.58 | *** join/#openmoko cdm (n=cdm@pool-71-116-87-174.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 06:45.15 | alphabeat | ah no way |
| 06:45.33 | BlackFog | morning |
| 06:45.37 | alphabeat | oh hai |
| 06:49.49 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
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| 07:10.24 | yangvnc | I am using openmoko on motorola a780 phone, however when i am in the applications menu, i cannot scroll down the list |
| 07:10.32 | *** join/#openmoko pvborza (n=paul@89.137.50.204) |
| 07:11.02 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:11.36 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@195.6.104.193) |
| 07:13.13 | HauDyrArb | morning |
| 07:13.53 | *** part/#openmoko vrt (n=vrt@unaffiliated/cherubiel) |
| 07:15.11 | yangvnc | it seems that i figured out the slider |
| 07:15.21 | *** join/#openmoko jfrousval (n=jfrousva@ARouen-152-1-74-130.w90-22.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:15.47 | yangvnc | But how do you exit applications like feeder, they seem to get backrounded |
| 07:15.58 | yangvnc | backgrounded |
| 07:17.18 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@62.8.133.125) |
| 07:17.48 | *** join/#openmoko cherubiel (n=cherubie@unaffiliated/cherubiel) |
| 07:18.29 | tessier | http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/07/06/the-disruptive-potential-of-gps-on-the-iphone-3g |
| 07:18.41 | tessier | Interesting how they say the iPhone is not allowed to be used as a standalone GPS device. |
| 07:18.48 | tessier | OpenMoko won't have that restriction. |
| 07:18.58 | alphabeat | yeah that's funny |
| 07:19.04 | alphabeat | against teh developer's ToS |
| 07:19.07 | tessier | I can't wait to see what sort of collaborative GPS based applications are created. |
| 07:19.24 | tessier | We could develop our own map data and upload it via wireless |
| 07:19.41 | tessier | And someone could corral it all into one big database we could all share royalty-free. |
| 07:19.52 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive_ (n=goxboxli@242.84-48-176.nextgentel.com) |
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| 07:22.06 | *** join/#openmoko suuuper (n=suuuper@81-208-88-100.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 07:24.11 | lindi- | tessier: http://www.openstreetmap.org/ |
| 07:24.58 | *** join/#openmoko opendeep (n=pradeep@61.16.248.242) |
| 07:25.46 | *** join/#openmoko hamid (i=hamid@unaffiliated/hamid) |
| 07:27.00 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
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| 07:27.18 | *** part/#openmoko hamid (i=hamid@unaffiliated/hamid) |
| 07:27.24 | fale | hello |
| 07:28.35 | fale | I have seen that the freerunner-900 is ended, is there a date of availability? is possible preorder? |
| 07:33.17 | *** join/#openmoko evolux (n=evolux@win4077.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de) |
| 07:36.48 | lindi- | fale: did you ask if pulster.de has them? |
| 07:38.39 | methril | pulster.de doesn't have |
| 07:39.28 | fale | methril, lindi-:than I have to wait an undefined time? |
| 07:39.48 | methril | like me, fale |
| 07:40.13 | lindi- | methril: oh? |
| 07:40.14 | methril | a lot of people is waiting the next PVR |
| 07:40.19 | fale | methril: uff, I have $400 for other 3 days and after I have to return them -_- |
| 07:40.24 | fale | methril: PVR? |
| 07:40.33 | methril | the next mass market factory |
| 07:40.33 | lindi- | have to return them? |
| 07:40.45 | methril | return them? |
| 07:40.56 | fale | lindi-: weird thing, but if I don't spend them I lose them |
| 07:41.04 | fale | methril: is there a date? |
| 07:41.07 | fale | *data |
| 07:41.23 | methril | not yet |
| 07:41.25 | lindi- | fale: sounds very odd :) |
| 07:41.34 | methril | at least i didn't read anything in the ml |
| 07:41.35 | fale | lindi-: I know |
| 07:42.00 | fale | methril: uff, that is the only way? |
| 07:42.13 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host10-213-dynamic.30-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 07:42.20 | methril | i think so |
| 07:42.40 | lindi- | fale: can't you at least order from pulster.de now and they'll ship them when they get them? |
| 07:42.40 | fale | hi geaaru |
| 07:43.07 | fale | lindi-: I'll have to check it, because if it is, is very good :) |
| 07:43.30 | methril | ask pulster, but before that release, they did'nt accept preorders |
| 07:43.44 | methril | i don't know if that changed now |
| 07:44.05 | lindi- | i only know we ordered last wednesday or so |
| 07:44.06 | fale | lindi-: pulster wants ⬠;_; |
| 07:44.08 | geaaru | hi |
| 07:44.12 | lindi- | fale: sure |
| 07:44.21 | lindi- | fale: where are you? ;) |
| 07:44.38 | fale | methril: We start sales 07/05/2008 (5.July). Our first batch of units are sold out. You can make a order now to be sure to get a freerunner with our next delivery which we expect 25.July. |
| 07:44.54 | fale | lindi-: 3 days in usa, and after in ita |
| 07:44.56 | methril | nice, i didn't read it |
| 07:45.04 | lindi- | fale: but ita has EUR so it should be no problem? |
| 07:45.16 | tessier | fale: How many phones were sold? |
| 07:45.32 | fale | tessier: no idea |
| 07:45.48 | fale | lindi-: but I have 400$ not 400⬠;) |
| 07:46.12 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=mbarre@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:46.26 | lindi- | oh right, 329 eur is 516 dollars nowadays |
| 07:46.57 | fale | lindi-: in fact |
| 07:46.59 | lindi- | i bought mine at 299 eur (470 dollars) |
| 07:47.06 | lindi- | fale: so 400$ would be super cheap :) |
| 07:47.19 | fale | lindi-: from the official store is 400$ |
| 07:47.25 | lindi- | ok |
| 07:47.38 | opendeep | When I installing library in moko using toolchain , in make i got this error:grep: /space/fic/openmoko-daily/neo1973/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/pango-1.18.3-r0/pango-1.18.3/pango/libpangoft2-1.0.la: No such file or directory" |
| 07:48.11 | lindi- | fale: with taxes its cheaper for me to buy from pulster |
| 07:48.23 | fale | lindi-: you have already received yours? |
| 07:48.27 | lindi- | fale: not yet |
| 07:48.32 | fale | lindi-: I see |
| 07:48.36 | lindi- | fale: they emailed that it'll take at least this month |
| 07:48.44 | tessier | fale: I'm wondering if we sold out 100 phones or 100,000. :) |
| 07:48.46 | opendeep | I could not figure out from where it's searching for that path, any one has idea |
| 07:48.49 | fale | lindi-: maybe, I haven't counted the taxes |
| 07:48.56 | lindi- | fale: 22% VAT here |
| 07:49.08 | fale | lindi-: de? |
| 07:49.13 | lindi- | Finland |
| 07:49.25 | fale | tessier: imho more on 100 ;) |
| 07:49.29 | lindi- | fale: but if I pay from germany it is ok if the vat has been paid in germany |
| 07:49.32 | fale | lindi-: I see |
| 07:49.44 | lindi- | fale: but if i order from USA i need to pay 22% VAT |
| 07:49.52 | lindi- | s/pay/buy/ :) |
| 07:50.00 | fale | lindi-: I think that italy is 17% VAT |
| 07:50.49 | fale | lindi-: do you know if someone has already the freerunner? |
| 07:52.12 | tessier | Hopefully my phone will be shipped promptly. I'll be annoyed if I paid extra for 3-day and it ships like the OLPC did. |
| 07:52.38 | lindi- | fale: at least i don't know anybody in Finland who would have gotten his freerunner yet |
| 07:52.51 | fale | lindi-: I see |
| 07:53.04 | fale | lindi-: I have a couple question :D |
| 07:53.31 | lindi- | the "Helsinki I" order should be here soon i guess |
| 07:53.48 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK (i=root@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 07:54.11 | fale | lindi-: I'll checkout and probably join a group |
| 07:58.03 | fale | is there a patch for the injector for the wifi driver? |
| 07:58.32 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK (i=root@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 07:59.51 | ozzloy | tessier: are you the same tessier? |
| 08:01.04 | tessier | ozzloy: Yes. The One And Only. Accept no immitations! |
| 08:01.15 | ozzloy | have you a fr yet? |
| 08:02.01 | tessier | ozzloy: I ordered one July 4th. Paid for 3 day shipping. Hope it arrives soon. |
| 08:02.12 | tessier | Would love to be able to show it off at the KPLUG meeting this Thursday. |
| 08:02.39 | ozzloy | i gots one as well, same shipping |
| 08:02.49 | ozzloy | ooh i can go to meetings now! |
| 08:03.53 | *** join/#openmoko atul (n=qvantel@61.16.248.242) |
| 08:04.04 | tessier | ozzloy: Has it arrived yet? |
| 08:04.07 | *** part/#openmoko Zoup (n=Zoup@78.110.121.1) |
| 08:04.22 | ozzloy | tessier: no T_T |
| 08:04.37 | ozzloy | tessier: idk if it's been shipped yet |
| 08:07.24 | Tanuva | is just opening his freerunner-packet... |
| 08:07.34 | ozzloy | arg |
| 08:08.28 | *** join/#openmoko niki_ (n=niki@d54C4F1A0.access.telenet.be) |
| 08:08.42 | Tanuva | [holding his baby in his hands] feels just perfect... |
| 08:08.56 | *** join/#openmoko bkruse (n=bkruse@76.73.154.120) |
| 08:09.00 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4508 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/data/theme/sudoku.edc: add new keyboard 1-9 (Erin Yueh) |
| 08:09.32 | *** part/#openmoko bkruse (n=bkruse@76.73.154.120) |
| 08:09.45 | lindi- | Tanuva: no smoke yet? |
| 08:09.47 | niki_ | Hey guys, sorry to bother you. My Neo Freerunner just arrived "jeej" but there is something wrong with the pincode it asks after the bootup. Is this the Pin of my SimCard ? |
| 08:10.16 | niki_ | Now it only says "registering..." at the top |
| 08:10.44 | ozzloy | lindi-: heh |
| 08:11.32 | *** join/#openmoko geocode1 (n=geocode@loudsl01-253-100-123.iglou.com) |
| 08:13.38 | lindi- | niki_: i just fetched the rootfs image, what is the text that asks for the pin exactly? |
| 08:13.43 | lindi- | or is it image? |
| 08:13.54 | Tanuva | lindi-: no smok |
| 08:13.57 | niki_ | it is a nice looking popup box |
| 08:13.58 | lindi- | "pin" is too vague to grep for |
| 08:14.01 | *** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 08:14.19 | niki_ | it's when the phone is already booted up |
| 08:14.27 | lindi- | niki_: what's the text exactly? |
| 08:14.44 | niki_ | I have to reboot the phone, second... Sry |
| 08:15.28 | fale | niki_: do u have the freerunner? |
| 08:16.01 | niki_ | Yes |
| 08:16.09 | niki_ | Just arrived here |
| 08:16.12 | Tanuva | its alive! |
| 08:16.43 | lindi- | i am trying to figure out how to get all source code :) |
| 08:16.49 | lindi- | git clone git://git.openmoko.org/git/openmoko.git openmoko |
| 08:16.52 | lindi- | at least i guess |
| 08:16.56 | *** join/#openmoko erwin (n=erwin@245.29.201-77.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 08:17.02 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK_ (i=root@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 08:17.21 | erwin | Hi, what is the login/password in openmoko console ? (i use Qemu) |
| 08:17.23 | niki_ | so after the intro music, the popup asks me |
| 08:17.25 | niki_ | Enter PIN |
| 08:17.55 | niki_ | it's a regular window that I can move aropund |
| 08:18.21 | niki_ | ok, now the phone blocks when moving it around. Do I need a more recent image or smth ? |
| 08:18.34 | *** join/#openmoko uzytkownik (n=uzytkown@87-205-174-111.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 08:18.34 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@lbcsi.fri.uni-lj.si) |
| 08:18.52 | lindi- | Binary file ./usr/bin/phone-kit matches |
| 08:19.06 | lindi- | (from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080706/Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080706-om-gta02.rootfs.tar.gz in case you wonder) |
| 08:19.34 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-75-28-22.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:19.47 | lindi- | strings returns quite a large number of options: corporate PIN,corporate PUK,PIN,PUK,SIM PIN,new SIM PIN,new SIM PUK,PIN2,PUK2,network PIN,network PUK,network subset PIN,network subset PUK,service provider PIN,service provider PUK |
| 08:20.04 | niki_ | wow |
| 08:20.22 | niki_ | well, I'm going to put it back in another phone, delete the pin from the simcard |
| 08:20.31 | niki_ | and then try again |
| 08:20.51 | *** join/#openmoko pazante (n=patrik@77.105.224.113) |
| 08:24.27 | *** join/#openmoko Wizzard (n=wizzard@159.148.31.137) |
| 08:26.09 | lindi- | i am trying to figure out how to fetch the sources :) |
| 08:32.02 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@233-64.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 08:37.25 | lindi- | ok, found it from http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/phone-kit/ |
| 08:37.42 | lindi- | niki_: i think it should be the PIN of our SIM |
| 08:37.50 | lindi- | niki_: it doesn't accept it? |
| 08:37.58 | niki_ | nope |
| 08:38.02 | *** join/#openmoko MrShlee (n=MrShlee@219-90-154-39.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 08:38.20 | lindi- | hmm |
| 08:38.29 | niki_ | But I can't see what I'm typing |
| 08:38.29 | lindi- | niki_: and it works in some other phone? |
| 08:38.32 | niki_ | yes |
| 08:39.27 | *** part/#openmoko cherubiel (n=cherubie@unaffiliated/cherubiel) |
| 08:39.35 | niki_ | maybe it's something with the keyboard |
| 08:39.36 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-22-144.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:39.41 | niki_ | I mean the touch screen keyboard |
| 08:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko blan (n=blan@dslb-088-065-224-090.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:40.44 | niki_ | hmm it doesn't seem to work |
| 08:42.11 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@83.68.218.53) |
| 08:42.18 | niki_ | Apperently there is no option to turn the pin off in my other cellphone |
| 08:42.35 | niki_ | If I could do just that my problem wil be solved I guess |
| 08:43.01 | *** join/#openmoko cekay (n=christia@gate.tarent.de) |
| 08:43.04 | niki_ | cool, the openmoko has vi |
| 08:44.00 | niki_ | Is it normal I only have 5 applications or so ? |
| 08:44.16 | *** join/#openmoko rtm (n=rtm@pool-151-199-44-198.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 08:44.25 | lindi- | niki_: how can you see that if the touch screen does not work? |
| 08:44.39 | niki_ | the touch screen works |
| 08:45.00 | niki_ | but it's the box where I have to enter my numbers |
| 08:45.01 | lindi- | but the virtual keyboard there doesn't? |
| 08:45.04 | niki_ | yes |
| 08:45.37 | lindi- | niki_: did you try entering text to some other application than phone-kit? |
| 08:45.44 | *** part/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 08:45.46 | lindi- | (phone-kit asks for the PIN) |
| 08:45.56 | rtm | Does anyone happen to know how I can classify a project in the "Trove Software Map" for Openmoko projects? I've got a newly approved project which I want to classify. |
| 08:45.57 | niki_ | yes |
| 08:46.08 | niki_ | I have used the terminal |
| 08:46.26 | niki_ | and tried the dialer |
| 08:46.58 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 08:47.11 | *** join/#openmoko jeremy_chan1 (n=jeremy_c@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 08:47.13 | lindi- | niki_: and it doesn't work? |
| 08:47.21 | niki_ | nope |
| 08:47.28 | niki_ | I mean entering text does work |
| 08:47.31 | niki_ | and numbers |
| 08:47.41 | lindi- | oh, but PIN doesn't? |
| 08:47.42 | niki_ | but ofcourse I can't dial anything without the PIN code |
| 08:47.45 | niki_ | nope |
| 08:47.48 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 08:47.52 | lindi- | rright |
| 08:48.13 | niki_ | and I'm 100% sure it's the right pin, I tried my other phone again 5 min ago |
| 08:49.06 | lindi- | niki_: but you don't get "wrong pin" warning either? |
| 08:49.22 | niki_ | nope |
| 08:49.25 | rtm | Nevermind - I found the answer. |
| 08:49.29 | lindi- | niki_: sounds like a bug :) |
| 08:49.35 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 08:49.54 | niki_ | It only says wrong PIN after I try 3 times |
| 08:50.05 | niki_ | but normaly a SIM card should be blocked then |
| 08:50.22 | niki_ | but it keeps working fine in my other phone |
| 08:50.43 | niki_ | so my guess is that it's not reading the pin correctly from the SIM or smth |
| 08:51.18 | niki_ | I'm going to search my place for another phone, maybe I can disable the PIN code |
| 08:51.38 | lindi- | niki_: hm |
| 08:52.00 | *** join/#openmoko StealthCP (n=stealthc@user-5444388e.lns2-c10.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 08:57.52 | lindi- | niki_: i can't find any mention of a similar bug |
| 08:58.00 | niki_ | strange |
| 08:58.07 | lindi- | niki_: can you please register at http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ and report it as new bug (ticket)? |
| 08:58.35 | lindi- | niki_: tell me the url so that i can add myself to watchlist and get email on bug activity |
| 08:58.39 | niki_ | Yeah no problem, just gonna try 1 more thing |
| 08:58.52 | niki_ | I changed the PIN code to smth else |
| 08:59.05 | lindi- | niki_: if this is really a bug many many people are going to hit it soon :) |
| 08:59.33 | niki_ | Strange that nobody mentioned it already |
| 08:59.53 | lindi- | niki_: maybe it only happens in some specific case |
| 09:00.02 | lindi- | niki_: you should include as much details as you can |
| 09:01.37 | niki_ | In another phone I changed the "ask for PIN code" setting, and now the Neo doesn't ask for a pincode, but it can't find a network neither |
| 09:01.44 | niki_ | registereing... |
| 09:06.57 | *** join/#openmoko Thegh (n=quaim@ip-85-197-140-56.lind-sata.dsl.bikab.com) |
| 09:07.19 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@89.143.149.83) |
| 09:14.22 | SpeedEvil | niki_: where are you, are you sure you've got hte right frequency band phone? |
| 09:15.05 | StealthCP | I've just bought the GSM 850 model. I live in the UK. |
| 09:15.09 | StealthCP | This should still work, right? |
| 09:15.58 | StealthCP | I tend to travel between the US and UK, once or twice a year, so |
| 09:15.59 | ieatlint | the frequency can't make it give a pin issue |
| 09:16.14 | ieatlint | StealthCP, you should've gotten the 900 |
| 09:16.27 | ieatlint | most metropolitan areas in the US use 1900 |
| 09:16.32 | StealthCP | I see |
| 09:16.33 | StealthCP | http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_gb.shtml |
| 09:16.34 | ieatlint | unless you're hitting up the countryside |
| 09:16.50 | ieatlint | albeit, 850 is used a little bit in some metro areas with ATT |
| 09:16.56 | HauDyrArb | VODAFONE Ltd |
| 09:16.57 | HauDyrArb | |
| 09:16.57 | HauDyrArb | GSM 900/1800 |
| 09:16.59 | StealthCP | From what I see here, it appears networks are on 1800 |
| 09:17.11 | StealthCP | which both Freerunners support, yes? |
| 09:17.24 | ieatlint | yes |
| 09:17.26 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: use t-mobile I think |
| 09:17.32 | SpeedEvil | stevenSn: that's not the point |
| 09:17.34 | ieatlint | 900 is used a bit more on the continent though |
| 09:17.43 | StealthCP | hmm |
| 09:17.51 | StealthCP | there are no 900s left in stock it seems |
| 09:17.53 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: the problem is that if 900 is used in an area you won't get it |
| 09:17.54 | HauDyrArb | 900 is mostly europe |
| 09:18.10 | ieatlint | the 900 hasn't been on sale for the openmoko.com store |
| 09:18.17 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: however - if you're US/UK only - t-mobile will work well. |
| 09:18.19 | HauDyrArb | i ordered from the eurpean reselles |
| 09:18.37 | ieatlint | yeah, tmobile in the US exclusively uses 1900mhz in metropolitan areas |
| 09:19.00 | ieatlint | rural areas sometimes roam onto other networks (for free), which may use 850... but never in big cities |
| 09:19.03 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: t-mobile does not have a 900 licence in the UKI I mean |
| 09:19.41 | nikluaz | the correct one for the US is the 900, not the 850? |
| 09:19.46 | StealthCP | I see. Well, I've purchased the 850, so I'll need to stick with this |
| 09:19.51 | StealthCP | hmm, ok |
| 09:19.54 | StealthCP | if this is so |
| 09:20.02 | StealthCP | then when would you get the 850 model? |
| 09:20.02 | ieatlint | i still don't quite get why it's not a quadband phone |
| 09:20.04 | SpeedEvil | niki_: sorry - I was talking of t-mobile-UK |
| 09:20.20 | ieatlint | nikluaz, 850 is correct for the US |
| 09:20.33 | SpeedEvil | leat: simply as the design was found to be triband only when 02 was in late design |
| 09:20.40 | niki_ | ow sorry, diddn't see somebody was tlaking to me |
| 09:20.45 | niki_ | yeas I have the right one |
| 09:20.51 | niki_ | the 900 for Belgium |
| 09:20.52 | nikluaz | o ok, i thought so |
| 09:21.19 | nikluaz | why did the 900's sell out so quickly? |
| 09:21.21 | ieatlint | SpeedEvil, yeah, but i can buy a gsm quadband modem for $146 with an AT interface just like the openmoko... |
| 09:21.36 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: however. |
| 09:21.37 | ieatlint | $184 if i want GPS built in |
| 09:22.03 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: That would cover the whole BOM of the phone - total. |
| 09:22.11 | ieatlint | bom? |
| 09:22.17 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: price of compoennts |
| 09:22.38 | ieatlint | i somehow doubt the markup on the phone is $200 |
| 09:23.09 | HauDyrArb | nikluaz, most of the 900 phones were sendt to europa |
| 09:23.11 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: It's not that simple. Tehre is cost of components, then there is cost of assembly. |
| 09:23.42 | ieatlint | yeah, and testing, packaging, shipping, etc |
| 09:23.43 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: But to tget back to the point - you generally don't want a module in a phone. It adds lots too much volume. |
| 09:24.00 | *** join/#openmoko IXian-Probe (i=ixian@118.80-203-48.nextgentel.com) |
| 09:24.10 | ieatlint | well, i remember reading that the radio is quadband in the FR |
| 09:24.19 | ieatlint | but there was some other sort of bottleneck forcing triband |
| 09:24.21 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: you need to integrate it on the mainboard, and open chipsets are not easily available. |
| 09:24.26 | niki_ | I'm flashing it, and will see if it makes any difference |
| 09:24.32 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: the design was fixed as a triband |
| 09:24.42 | ieatlint | shrugs |
| 09:24.54 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: The triband was known to work. The quadband design might hav hade problems. |
| 09:24.56 | ieatlint | i'm not trying to be overly critical, mind you |
| 09:25.13 | ieatlint | ah |
| 09:25.19 | ieatlint | well, that's a pretty good reason then, hehe |
| 09:25.39 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: the GSM section did not change from neo1973 to FR |
| 09:25.59 | ieatlint | yeah, admittedly the lack of edge nearly made me decide against it |
| 09:26.08 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 09:26.22 | ieatlint | here's to hoping san francisco actually gets a free city-wide wifi network in the near future |
| 09:27.26 | ieatlint | that, and i plan to buy a 3g dongle for my laptop when tmobile releases one and turns on their 3g towers here |
| 09:28.31 | fish_ | ah crap. my build failed while compiling python-pygobject-native: gobject-generate-constants >> constants.py | /bin/sh: gobject-generate-constants: command not found |
| 09:29.11 | fish_ | should that be on my host system? |
| 09:30.07 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=mbarre@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:31.15 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 09:31.29 | SpeedEvil | finds accelerometers with a 4uv/sqrt(Hz) noise. |
| 09:36.55 | HauDyrArb | give me som NoiZe!! |
| 09:36.55 | Tanuva | grmpf. there's no usb0-interface coming up although neo is in NOR/usbnet is loaded/lsusb lists the neo. anything I'm missing? |
| 09:38.48 | fish_ | do you have 'gobject-generate-constants' in your path? |
| 09:39.53 | fish_ | python-pygobject-native have it in "/data/Data/fso/build/tmp/work/x86_64-linux/python-pygobject-native-2.14.2-r0/" in the 'constants.py' target.. |
| 09:40.58 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 09:43.55 | SpeedEvil | HauDyrArb: I was just surprised at the accuracy. For context, after a minute of integration, these would be out by some 70cm, compared to some 250m from the ones in the FR. |
| 09:44.13 | SpeedEvil | (unfortunately, these are too large to go in FR) |
| 09:44.35 | niki_ | Just flashed the Neo with the latest stable root file system. Still can't connect to a network |
| 09:45.15 | HauDyrArb | i also thourght that 4uv sounds small |
| 09:45.22 | SpeedEvil | HauDyrArb: ug |
| 09:45.38 | HauDyrArb | aaah |
| 09:45.39 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 09:45.50 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@195.6.104.193) |
| 09:46.22 | HauDyrArb | anyway micro g's or v's is small :-) |
| 09:46.30 | *** join/#openmoko ernst (i=ernst@d026245.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 09:46.39 | *** join/#openmoko ernst (i=ernst@d026245.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 09:46.40 | ieatlint | niki_... are you using a 3g sim? |
| 09:46.51 | SpeedEvil | harzi: the ones in the Wii accelerometer are 50* as noisy. |
| 09:46.59 | SpeedEvil | HauDyrArb: |
| 09:47.12 | ieatlint | "Hej guys, I had got my today and i have tested it, but my 3G card |
| 09:47.12 | ieatlint | doesn't function with it. he can't find a network and is unable to get |
| 09:47.12 | ieatlint | the pin. (i have disabled pin with another phone, then there was only |
| 09:47.12 | ieatlint | the problem that he doesn't find a network)" |
| 09:47.16 | ieatlint | from the mailing list |
| 09:47.17 | niki_ | Not that I am aware of |
| 09:47.18 | niki_ | hmm |
| 09:47.24 | HauDyrArb | SpeedEvil, as the FR or the ones you found |
| 09:47.27 | leinir | They don't need so much precision, since they've got the infrared location spotting to help :) |
| 09:47.48 | roh | ieatlint which image are you using? |
| 09:47.49 | *** join/#openmoko spdr (n=spdr@89-138-3-207.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 09:47.56 | roh | ieatlint and which carrier is your sim from? |
| 09:47.58 | SpeedEvil | HauDyrArb: the ones I've found - compared to teh wii - the ones in the FR are a thousand times worse than the ones in the FR. |
| 09:48.23 | niki_ | ieatlint: looks like that's the same problem I have, damn |
| 09:48.25 | ieatlint | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/020340.html |
| 09:48.26 | *** join/#openmoko kwek (n=martijn@188.Red-213-97-48.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:48.29 | ieatlint | it's a huge thread |
| 09:48.45 | ieatlint | 35 or so posts |
| 09:49.09 | ieatlint | roh, i've not gotten my phone yet, it's niki that has the problem |
| 09:51.53 | ernst | How many Satelites does i need to have a fix point ? |
| 09:51.59 | ernst | with freerunner |
| 09:52.08 | SpeedEvil | ern/: at least 3 |
| 09:52.17 | SpeedEvil | ernst: for a 2D fix, 4 for a 3D fix |
| 09:52.26 | ieatlint | yeah, 3 is the mathematical min |
| 09:52.30 | SpeedEvil | ernst: are you having problems getting a fix? |
| 09:53.44 | ernst | yes |
| 09:53.57 | ernst | i use cat /dev/ttySAC1 |
| 09:53.59 | SpeedEvil | ernst: been outside for 15 min or so? |
| 09:54.08 | ernst | and tango gps and gpsd and gps sight |
| 09:54.23 | SpeedEvil | ernst: you're getting reported sats, and the time is right? |
| 09:54.33 | ernst | but i stay 1 hour in the garden withut tree's and i have only one satlite |
| 09:54.37 | SpeedEvil | Odd |
| 09:55.37 | SpeedEvil | I'd look over the mailing list for GPS threads in the last few days. |
| 09:56.27 | ernst | thanks |
| 09:57.16 | niki_ | http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/666 |
| 09:58.07 | niki_ | It's a 12 month old tread. Hope it still will be fixed |
| 09:59.46 | ernst | but it's not for the freerunner |
| 09:59.48 | roh | ieatlint niki_ i've just wrote a followup to the thread on openmoko-community with my tests and results |
| 10:00.33 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau1 (n=mbarre@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:00.52 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=mbarre@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:00.58 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.218.41.31) |
| 10:01.01 | ieatlint | hopefully it's that simple |
| 10:01.10 | ieatlint | i only have a 2g sim myself, so i'm not too concerned |
| 10:02.32 | ieatlint | i've also a spare sim card here, still in its credit card sized plastic punchout |
| 10:02.51 | roh | yeah.. still its weird.. |
| 10:03.01 | niki_ | ok will try that |
| 10:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko asdfgh (n=spdr@CBL217-132-213-151.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 10:03.28 | roh | if i had access to a sim-tracer i would log the process and see if the sim does any weird shit like try to access STK or so in that moment |
| 10:03.43 | roh | btw.. afaik STK is deactivated on om |
| 10:05.39 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:06.57 | *** join/#openmoko nomeata (i=nobody@nomeata.de) |
| 10:07.03 | ieatlint | i love sim cards |
| 10:08.22 | nomeata | Hi. I had a look at a Freerunner yesterday, and Iâm wondering what softwarestack that was. What comes preinstalled on them, and in what version? |
| 10:09.03 | SpeedEvil | nomeata: it's a GTK version of the software - 2007.2 IIRC. |
| 10:09.30 | nomeata | SpeedEvil: thx. Is that still the recommended one, or should users upgrade? (Iâm probably getting my freerunner today) |
| 10:09.40 | SpeedEvil | nomeata: it's at the moment a barely functional normal phone, that is outperformed by any phone at all, even the cheapest. |
| 10:10.45 | SpeedEvil | nomeata: tehre are at teh moment three software stacks, ASU, the 2007.2 one, and FSO. |
| 10:11.10 | SpeedEvil | Where is it... |
| 10:11.32 | SpeedEvil | There was a URL someone posted explainign the difference. |
| 10:11.37 | SpeedEvil | anyway. |
| 10:11.41 | mjr | http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ |
| 10:11.44 | *** join/#openmoko aggtrfrad (n=aggtrfra@CPE001346891e81-CM0018c0d9db72.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 10:11.46 | SpeedEvil | That's the bunny. |
| 10:11.55 | niki_ | roh: just change the pin to 0000, still not worky |
| 10:12.04 | *** join/#openmoko AndrewMohawk (n=andrew@dsl-240-191-188.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 10:12.31 | nomeata | I saw that blog post, but itâs still not clear what stack is the best for daily telephoning use |
| 10:13.04 | SpeedEvil | nomeata: the 2007.2 one probably at the moment. That may change dramatically. |
| 10:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko spdr (n=spdr@DSL217-132-217-24.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 10:13.29 | nomeata | so no upgrade necessary. |
| 10:13.51 | SpeedEvil | Well - if you're expecting it to be a funcitonal phone - it's basically not at the moment. |
| 10:13.58 | nomeata | is the package manager capable of upgrading itself, similar to apt-get upgrade, or do I usually re-flash the phone |
| 10:14.04 | SpeedEvil | It's a hacking platform that may have some incidental phone technology. |
| 10:14.10 | SpeedEvil | It's a hacking platform that may have some incidental phone software. |
| 10:14.19 | nomeata | Well, doing phone calls and writing SMS is all I need anyways :-) |
| 10:14.19 | SpeedEvil | flashing is the usual way at the moment. |
| 10:14.26 | nomeata | ok, thx |
| 10:14.42 | polz | nomeata: even that functionality tends to still be a bit flakey |
| 10:14.42 | SpeedEvil | This should hopefully improve soon. |
| 10:16.04 | nomeata | and whatâs the best place to be kept up-to-date? the community-mailinglist? |
| 10:16.17 | SpeedEvil | nomeata: that and here |
| 10:16.44 | nomeata | ok, great. Iâm looking forward to getting my device :-) |
| 10:16.58 | *** join/#openmoko pkern (n=pkern@debian/developer/pkern) |
| 10:17.31 | pkern | Hm, kernel suspend works in general, but after some time the phone just not wakes again. The GSM chip is still logged into the net, but the display does not come up again and USB networking doesn't work, too. |
| 10:18.11 | nomeata | pkern: hi :-9 |
| 10:19.06 | polz | pkern: try using mwester's kernel image |
| 10:19.57 | pkern | nomeata: No SMS yet. |
| 10:20.15 | AndrewMohawk | on the freerunner? |
| 10:20.26 | SpeedEvil | pkern: SMS works for me - GTA01 with the 2007.2 - I see no reason why it wouldn't work on FR. |
| 10:20.26 | pkern | polz: Do you have a pointer, by chance? (And yes, Freerunner.) |
| 10:20.38 | nomeata | pkern: do SMS get lost when you receive them while having the sim card in the freerunner, or can you read them after pluggin them in a regular phone |
| 10:20.42 | pkern | SpeedEvil: Yeah, sorry, meant something else. ;-) SMS works. |
| 10:20.46 | nomeata | pkern: oh, nevermind you mean _that_ SMS :-) |
| 10:21.06 | polz | pkern: from here:http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories |
| 10:21.09 | pkern | nomeata: I lost all my SMS when reflashing. So I guess they're saved in the phone. |
| 10:21.28 | polz | pkern: there's a link to: http://moko.mwester.net/ |
| 10:21.35 | pkern | polz: Yep, found it, thanks. (: |
| 10:22.24 | polz | btw, does bluetooth work for anyone with a neo1973 and a recent kernel image ? |
| 10:22.59 | *** join/#openmoko Gaap (n=gianluca@host194-0-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:23.17 | pkern | The images are pretty "old", though. |
| 10:23.17 | *** part/#openmoko Gaap (n=gianluca@host194-0-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:25.09 | polz | pkern: but they're the only ones that work for me |
| 10:25.18 | polz | at least on my neo1973 |
| 10:25.22 | ieatlint | in my experience with gsm, the modem will download the sms to the sim, and the phone will then read it from there |
| 10:25.46 | ieatlint | then, depending on the phone, or how it's configured, it'll leave the sms on the sim, or copy the sms from the sim to its own database |
| 10:26.19 | ieatlint | so in theory, if the phone's software doesn't support sms, it'll still go onto the sim... and if you brush up on the modem's AT commands, you can read it from a terminal |
| 10:27.21 | nomeata | ok |
| 10:27.39 | pkern | nomeata: At least you could check with libgsmd-tool, if you fix the SEGV. ;) |
| 10:27.40 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl (n=bumbl@91-113-62-202.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 10:28.53 | nomeata | pkern: have you already set up a qemu-thingy for testing and developing? |
| 10:29.32 | pkern | nomeata: I had. Was pretty easy. I would have to resetup it to target openmoko-devel instead of qtopia, though, I guess. |
| 10:29.40 | pkern | polz: Also the neod patch? |
| 10:30.02 | nomeata | pkern: or installed debian on the freerunner? :-) ( http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian ) |
| 10:30.42 | pkern | nomeata: I hate that ipkg is called opkg, I mistyped so often... ;-) |
| 10:31.49 | *** join/#openmoko ascot (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 10:32.06 | nomeata | pkern: do you thinks itâs possible to create a few proper .debs with the phone-specific apps so that we can use apt-get on the phone for updates? |
| 10:36.08 | *** join/#openmoko erwin_ (n=erwin@84-75-28-22.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:40.07 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4509 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/src/sudoku_ui.py: add number keyboard, clear callback, button clicked callback (Erin Yueh) |
| 10:40.58 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4510 10/developers/erin_yueh/pythonEFL-sudoku/data/theme/sudoku.edc: modify number buttons (Erin Yueh) |
| 10:41.00 | *** join/#openmoko Zoup_ (n=Zoup@78.110.121.1) |
| 10:42.09 | HauDyrArb | it would be cool to install debian on the phone and then be able to run apt-get install openmoko and then you get all the Moko goodies on top of debian |
| 10:42.26 | Ainulindale | Debian ? Yuk ! :-) |
| 10:42.56 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: yuk ? why yuk ? |
| 10:43.05 | Ainulindale | I don't like Debian. |
| 10:43.13 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: why ? :) |
| 10:43.15 | ieatlint | what's your poison, Ainulindale? |
| 10:43.16 | HauDyrArb | Ainulindale, sad for you |
| 10:43.20 | Ainulindale | Because it sucks :-) |
| 10:43.32 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: why we use something that sucks ? :) |
| 10:43.43 | Ainulindale | And more seriously, I prefer Gentoo because I can master every inch of my system |
| 10:43.52 | Ainulindale | I remember one time I had to build a really tiny system with a pdf reader |
| 10:43.54 | ieatlint | high fives Ainulindale |
| 10:43.55 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: why zillion of people built their distribution based on something that sucks ? :) |
| 10:43.55 | HauDyrArb | cant understand Debian sucks.... DOES NOT COMPUTE!! |
| 10:43.59 | Ainulindale | I tried to apt-get install xpdf |
| 10:44.04 | ieatlint | portage rules :) |
| 10:44.07 | Ainulindale | Impossible to install without esd |
| 10:44.19 | Ainulindale | Why would I install something to read sound in order to be able to read pdf ?! |
| 10:44.20 | broonie | Ainulindale: Did you report this bug? |
| 10:44.25 | Ainulindale | It wasn't a bug ! |
| 10:44.34 | Ainulindale | That's what is saddening me |
| 10:44.42 | Zoup_ | well , maybe problem is between chair and keyboard :) |
| 10:44.57 | broonie | Ainulindale: If it's installing extra stuff it sounds like a bug to me.... |
| 10:45.02 | Ainulindale | Oh, yeah, because there's surely a xpdf-without-esd to install :-) |
| 10:45.16 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: Exactly! :)) |
| 10:45.23 | Ainulindale | broonie: in fact it was a dependency of a dependency of xpdf which was built against esd |
| 10:45.27 | Tanuva | whats the difference between tar.gz and jffs2-rootfilesystems? |
| 10:45.32 | broonie | Ainulindale: Yes, I know. |
| 10:45.37 | broonie | IIRC it's been fixed now. |
| 10:45.37 | Ainulindale | And that's what I don't like in Debian |
| 10:45.41 | Ainulindale | That and the fact that it sucks |
| 10:45.50 | mjr | Tanuva, other's a tar archive, other's a ready-to-flash image file |
| 10:45.51 | Ainulindale | And the stupid politics about free/non-free |
| 10:46.08 | Ainulindale | (If my english is fuzzy please excuse me, I'm ill and steaming right now) |
| 10:46.10 | ieatlint | i'm not quite as critical, but i feel that gentoo's portage system has significant advantages in the way it works |
| 10:46.13 | Ainulindale | (Trying to keep my lungs within me) |
| 10:46.15 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: well , you see , debian has binary packages , thats best way to provide binary packages :) you dont build packages in debian |
| 10:46.16 | Tanuva | mjr: arr! I could have guessed that... |
| 10:46.18 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@90-227-33-55-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 10:46.31 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: I know, I know, but as I said, it doesn't make sense to me |
| 10:46.32 | *** join/#openmoko apol (i=apol@62.57.50.245.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 10:46.33 | broonie | Ainulindale: You run into trouble with the people who install the library in question looking for sound support then get upset if it doesn't work. |
| 10:46.39 | Ainulindale | I don't want to install things that aren't useful. |
| 10:46.47 | Ainulindale | broonie: Yep I know |
| 10:46.55 | *** join/#openmoko asdfgh (n=spdr@CBL217-132-204-198.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 10:46.55 | Ainulindale | But that's what I think is a problem |
| 10:47.04 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: well , wasting processor on building every packages does not make any sense to me as well :) |
| 10:47.08 | Ainulindale | Their choice was their choice, to support a specific set of functionalities |
| 10:47.14 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: i cant imagine doing that on 250-300 production servers |
| 10:47.15 | Ainulindale | But for my part I don't want to build X when I don't need it |
| 10:47.25 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: "wasting" ? |
| 10:47.36 | ieatlint | Zoup_, it's a one-time affair, and you can distribute the compilation or pre-compile packages as you specifically want them on other computers |
| 10:47.37 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: Waste of time , processing power |
| 10:47.38 | broonie | Like I say, that particular one has been resolved so that you can do what you want; if you run into trouble with stuff like this you really should report it to whoever provided stuff (Debian in this case) rather than bitching on IRC. It may just be nobody noticed yet. |
| 10:47.44 | Ainulindale | When you have 250-300 prod servers, there's a fair chance that they are the same |
| 10:47.53 | Ainulindale | In that case you bild your image distro on one gentoo server |
| 10:47.58 | Ainulindale | And then deploy the binary packages on every other one |
| 10:47.58 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: thats waste of time and resources :) |
| 10:48.01 | Ainulindale | According to your needs |
| 10:48.02 | ieatlint | gentoo is more efficient once working |
| 10:48.06 | Ainulindale | And that's not waste |
| 10:48.07 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: no , in many cases they are not the same :) |
| 10:48.27 | ieatlint | meh, i disagree that it's a waste |
| 10:48.27 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: indeed , when you GET it working , which is time and resource wasting :) |
| 10:48.31 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: You are telling me that you need this specific option of apache activated on one, and that on another one ? |
| 10:48.39 | HauDyrArb | Ainulindale, OK you just stick with Gentoo then we will use Debian :-) |
| 10:48.40 | Ainulindale | If that's the case you will waste the same amount of time in debian |
| 10:49.00 | ieatlint | Zoup_, i type "emerge system" and come back 6 hours later ... or better yet, i type that and go to bed ... done. |
| 10:49.07 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: nop , i do apt-get install apache2 on all of them :) not compiling anything |
| 10:49.20 | Ainulindale | broonie: I don't use Debian so I don't have to report that, no :-) |
| 10:49.33 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: humm ... you dont have 250-300 customers and angry boss do you ? :) 6 hours , gush :) |
| 10:49.41 | Ainulindale | I installed it once, saw that it wasn't fulfilling my needs, installed gentoo |
| 10:49.52 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r138725d818be 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade splinter as of Chia-I Wu's request |
| 10:49.53 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03olv 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r4c041c705759 10/packages/ (10 files in 2 dirs): add/update more maps |
| 10:49.53 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03olv 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r37b7995e6793 10/conf/checksums.ini: add/update checksums of maps |
| 10:49.58 | ieatlint | Zoup_, no, but if i did, i'd standardise my hardware, and create binary packages for it |
| 10:50.10 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: Ok , your need are not god needs, so IF gentoo works for you , it does not mean that DEBIAN sucks :) right ? |
| 10:50.34 | Ainulindale | No, it means that I spent ten minutes trolling saying that debian sucks just to see if you would follow :-) |
| 10:50.35 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: impossible in enterprise , even in single datacenter you have to server zillion of different hardwares |
| 10:50.35 | *** part/#openmoko pkern (n=pkern@debian/developer/pkern) |
| 10:50.38 | Ainulindale | But still, I think it sucks :-) |
| 10:50.51 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: hehehe :) |
| 10:51.01 | ieatlint | debian is a blunt solution |
| 10:51.08 | Ainulindale | Seriously, as I said, I don't like it because it doesn't fit for me, that's all |
| 10:51.10 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rec39b3690513 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [task] Bump the PR of task-openmoko-feed to force a rebuild |
| 10:51.17 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: best possible binary packaging solution :) |
| 10:51.19 | Ainulindale | Then there's the discussion about free/non-free |
| 10:51.19 | ieatlint | it's a "i need it to do this" with a "okay, but you have to take ALL OF THIS" thing |
| 10:51.32 | Ainulindale | But as I'm not a user I think it's not my choice, and I don't have anything to say |
| 10:51.33 | ieatlint | gentoo is a "i need it to do this" and you get exactly what you need |
| 10:51.56 | ieatlint | and if you are compiling for the same arch, with the same dependencies, you can create a binary package to use |
| 10:52.01 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: well , that might save you some disk space , but waste time and resources :) |
| 10:52.14 | ieatlint | i don't think you get it :P |
| 10:52.19 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: "waste" is inappropriate I think |
| 10:52.23 | ieatlint | it's not an issue of disk space |
| 10:52.24 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: when ever i install debian , i do remove 85% of services :) yes :) |
| 10:52.29 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: my system mainly builds package once a week, for 1 hour |
| 10:53.08 | Ainulindale | And depending on the need, though, something like gentoo specific to the arch could be needed |
| 10:53.13 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: but there are binary packages for that , which reduces 1 hour wasted time to seconds :) |
| 10:53.23 | Ainulindale | (I can't remember which company bought a cluster on gentoo for hardware optimization when rendering 3D) |
| 10:53.40 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: and then you have tons of useless dependencies |
| 10:53.44 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: yes, you can compile once , create package , scp to entire world , but not using simple apt-get install apache2 ? :) |
| 10:53.49 | Ainulindale | I think it's a different philosophy that's all |
| 10:54.01 | Ainulindale | For my part I prefer to be able to master each and every aspect of my system |
| 10:54.07 | Ainulindale | I don't feel secure if that's not the case |
| 10:54.11 | niki_ | Ok, so with Belgium operator BASE the phone IS working, so time to Ditch Mobistare |
| 10:54.13 | ieatlint | Zoup_, no, instead it takes maybe 3 steps, and i get only what i want |
| 10:54.17 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: they are different , none sucks :) |
| 10:54.29 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: No, no, Debian sucks, because I don't like it :-) |
| 10:54.42 | ieatlint | debian is a blunt instrument, gentoo is far more precise |
| 10:54.44 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: no update , no upstream automatic configuration ... ? :) |
| 10:55.00 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: thats a good reason! ;) |
| 10:55.04 | ieatlint | uh, not sure what you mean |
| 10:55.09 | ieatlint | updates are easy as hell |
| 10:55.11 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: that's wrong what you said about updates and so on |
| 10:55.14 | broonie | Ainulindale: Point is, it's not really constructive to complain about things in the way you're doing - often this ends up with "...and they still haven't fixed issue X which I never told them about.". |
| 10:55.21 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: you build your own package , scp them around the world , how do you update ? :) |
| 10:55.21 | ieatlint | and automatic config? not an issue |
| 10:55.23 | Ainulindale | If you have an overlay for binaries, you can do pretty much the same thing in Gentoo |
| 10:55.31 | ieatlint | you don't scp them |
| 10:55.46 | niki_ | why dont yall try arch :-d |
| 10:55.47 | ieatlint | you have all the computers use a common package repository |
| 10:55.50 | Ainulindale | broonie: it was a simple example to point out, while trolling, what I don't like :-) |
| 10:56.08 | Ainulindale | broonie: But don't worry, I won't hate you because you use software which sucks :-p |
| 10:56.08 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: so , you suggest upstream binary packages dont you ? :) |
| 10:56.10 | ieatlint | and you update portage's database from a local server, as needed |
| 10:56.23 | ieatlint | upstream? not sure what you mean |
| 10:56.32 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: 'from gentoo' ? :) |
| 10:56.36 | Ainulindale | Nope |
| 10:56.38 | ieatlint | no |
| 10:56.44 | ieatlint | you make your own binary packages |
| 10:56.45 | Ainulindale | From the cluster maintainer |
| 10:56.49 | ieatlint | nope |
| 10:57.09 | Zoup_ | then you need to maintain cluster, time wasted / bandwidth :) |
| 10:57.10 | ieatlint | you build a bin package, and configure the clients to use a binary package when available |
| 10:57.12 | Ainulindale | If you have 100 server and install gentoo on them, you probably have a specific need you won't be able to fulfill with debian |
| 10:57.19 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: No, you didn't understand |
| 10:57.37 | Ainulindale | There's some kind of equivalent to sources.list in gentoo |
| 10:57.43 | ieatlint | maintaining the cluster is minimal, and the bandwidth is essentially identical to debian |
| 10:57.53 | Ainulindale | And you can easily specify where to find binary packages for each and every package |
| 10:57.57 | Ainulindale | It's not usually done, that's all |
| 10:58.09 | ieatlint | yeah, updates are done as needed, not as available |
| 10:58.19 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: minimal is much more than zero , i dont provide bandwidth for debian , there are mirrors for packages that i use :) |
| 10:58.32 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: Neither do we |
| 10:58.40 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: and build them ? |
| 10:58.41 | ieatlint | yeah, i don't get what you mean |
| 10:58.48 | ieatlint | we download the source once |
| 10:58.50 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: what ? |
| 10:58.50 | ieatlint | we compile them |
| 10:58.53 | ieatlint | we host them locally |
| 10:58.59 | ieatlint | the bandwidth is minimal |
| 10:58.59 | Ainulindale | And we win |
| 10:59.02 | Ainulindale | Because debian sucks :-p |
| 10:59.05 | Zoup_ | haha :) |
| 10:59.08 | Ainulindale | (I love to troll uselessly) |
| 10:59.10 | ieatlint | :) |
| 10:59.13 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r42e23c9c95cf 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin] Bump up the reversion of assassin to 174. |
| 10:59.14 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r4edef25e43fa 10/packages/openmoko-projects/assassin_svn.bb: [Assassin] Add curl to assassin's depends. |
| 10:59.14 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r5859db9c1aa7 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: rev illume to 1 second after blank for suspend |
| 10:59.15 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r9fe976c3ec22 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade splinter as of Chia-I Wu's request |
| 10:59.16 | Zoup_ | and we just : apt-get install software :) its single step :) |
| 10:59.16 | Ainulindale | But hey guys I'm really really sick |
| 10:59.18 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03olv 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rb0d4ef652fc8 10/packages/ (10 files in 2 dirs): add/update more maps |
| 10:59.19 | Ainulindale | So please don't mind :-) |
| 10:59.21 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03olv 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r852bbcc5bc67 10/conf/checksums.ini: add/update checksums of maps |
| 10:59.24 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r406b8308091f 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [task] Bump the PR of task-openmoko-feed to force a rebuild |
| 10:59.24 | ieatlint | gentoo also allows much more obscure software |
| 10:59.25 | Tanuva | loves to read this discussion.. |
| 10:59.32 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: what ieatlint is equivalent to "emerge software" |
| 10:59.34 | ieatlint | and supports installing packages from cvs |
| 10:59.35 | Ainulindale | One less word |
| 10:59.38 | Ainulindale | So easier and faster :-p |
| 10:59.44 | ieatlint | /svn |
| 10:59.47 | Zoup_ | CVS ? oh my god! :)) |
| 10:59.54 | Ainulindale | And I can't speak english anymore it seems |
| 11:00.10 | ieatlint | what's your native tongue? |
| 11:00.17 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: you can install them from git if you prefer =) |
| 11:00.19 | Zoup_ | i cant understand , why should i waste of customer time , processing power to build things ? |
| 11:00.20 | Ainulindale | French |
| 11:00.35 | ieatlint | ah, a frenchie.... wtf is with your crazy as azerty keyboard? :P |
| 11:00.39 | ieatlint | now that sucks ;) |
| 11:00.42 | Ainulindale | :-) |
| 11:00.59 | Tanuva | *fg* |
| 11:01.04 | ieatlint | Zoup_, how long do you think it takes to build things? |
| 11:01.07 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: Just a simple example, but what if some security flaw in apache was allowing remote access |
| 11:01.12 | Tanuva | I've been to france once, typing on such thing is like hell... |
| 11:01.13 | Ainulindale | And what if this flaw was in some module |
| 11:01.18 | Zoup_ | much more than exctracting tar files |
| 11:01.25 | Ainulindale | You'd surely want to reduce the amount of useless modules |
| 11:01.34 | Ainulindale | It's purely schematic but it's a theoretical example |
| 11:01.34 | *** join/#openmoko pvborza (n=paul@89.137.50.204) |
| 11:01.53 | ieatlint | Zoup_, name a package... if i have it on my system, i'll compile it and tell you how long it takes |
| 11:02.05 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: apache2 :) |
| 11:02.13 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: sorry :) |
| 11:02.18 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: i was telling you : apache2 :) |
| 11:02.24 | ieatlint | i use lighttpd actually |
| 11:02.28 | IXian-Probe | yeah, what if the flaw was a flaw in some dingabobby, because there will always be flaws in dingdangs and dohikeys regardless. "what if" ain't worth shit.. regardless of how flawed it is ;) |
| 11:02.38 | ieatlint | i suppose i can install apache for a moment |
| 11:02.46 | Ainulindale | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:02.46 | Ainulindale | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:03.07 | Ainulindale | Merge time is download/decompress/compil/install |
| 11:03.09 | Zoup_ | 5 minutes is compare able to 15 second installation under debian ? |
| 11:03.13 | ieatlint | ok, am predownloading the packages |
| 11:03.24 | IXian-Probe | seriously, it's not about what is the best, it's about what is the best for the task at hand. ^_^ |
| 11:03.26 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: it's not the matter of the time but of what you want :-) |
| 11:03.32 | *** join/#openmoko Wander_w (n=wander@ip5653a3cb.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 11:03.37 | ieatlint | compiling... |
| 11:03.44 | Ainulindale | In a production environment, 5 minutes in order to install a software isn't that much |
| 11:03.45 | ieatlint | has to install apache-tools first |
| 11:03.46 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: Time is VERY important in enterprises :) |
| 11:03.50 | Zoup_ | apt-get install apache2 -y 0.30s user 0.00s system 99% cpu 0.304 total |
| 11:03.53 | Ainulindale | You will spend more time to configure hopefully |
| 11:04.02 | Zoup_ | you see ? :) |
| 11:04.10 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: NO :) |
| 11:04.18 | ieatlint | yeah, and how long does it take you to get a coffee or go to the toilet? |
| 11:04.22 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: my machine is a home machine, and I didn't enable ccache nor prefecth |
| 11:04.24 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 11:04.28 | ieatlint | real1m3.698s |
| 11:04.33 | IXian-Probe | ... seriously, does anyone compile and install on a _production computer_ in enterprises? ?!? |
| 11:04.34 | Ainulindale | s/prefecth/prefetch |
| 11:04.40 | ieatlint | oh my god... it took 33.698 seconds longer!!! |
| 11:04.42 | *** join/#openmoko diego_at_work (i=5960ae7b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b7f9f95752f4bfcb) |
| 11:04.51 | ieatlint | you must be right, imagine the time i've wasted... |
| 11:04.51 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: YES :) |
| 11:04.54 | Ainulindale | IXian-Probe: Yep, I saw that. Working and all, and people being really happy. |
| 11:04.59 | IXian-Probe | *shudder* |
| 11:05.06 | Wander_w | well, isn't the prefferd practice to install the new version alonside the old version, and then tell the router to start redirecting new clients to the new version? |
| 11:05.14 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: 33 second for apache , XX for XXXX and etc and etc :) it takes 5 minutes to install PXE debian while in gentoo , god knows :) |
| 11:05.25 | IXian-Probe | Then the last word anyone they would like to hear is "Ops" |
| 11:05.26 | Zoup_ | PLUS waste of processing power :) |
| 11:05.34 | ieatlint | the only packages that take any amount of time are qt, glib and gcc |
| 11:05.35 | Ainulindale | IXian-Probe: but in this kind of environment where performance is critical, you generally have a qualification environment |
| 11:05.35 | Wander_w | ...and then shutting down the old version after 10 mins? |
| 11:05.48 | IXian-Probe | Wander_w: mhm, redundancy is king. ^_^ |
| 11:06.21 | Wander_w | no, uptime is :D |
| 11:06.33 | IXian-Probe | Ainulindale: exactly, if performance is critical.. Then precompile on a virtual machine or a identical separate machine. ^_^ |
| 11:06.45 | Ainulindale | IXian-Probe: That's what I was meaning |
| 11:06.46 | IXian-Probe | imho |
| 11:06.58 | ieatlint | plus, if a security breach is determined, i can push out patches to clients in minutes |
| 11:07.00 | Ainulindale | But as I'm sick I'm in a "say things ununderstable" mood |
| 11:07.00 | *** join/#openmoko giantHogweed (n=Frank@P82b3.p.pppool.de) |
| 11:07.05 | IXian-Probe | Ainulindale: okey, then compiletime and installtime doesn't mean anything. ^_^ |
| 11:07.20 | Ainulindale | IXian-Probe: That's what we were trying to explain to Zoup_ |
| 11:07.22 | IXian-Probe | Ainulindale: np ;) |
| 11:07.23 | roh | still.. i see a discussion where someone bashs debian for being to less configurable as totally bollocks because the discusser obviously has no clue about debian *sigh* |
| 11:07.55 | Ainulindale | roh: Yay ! Come with us and troll :-) |
| 11:08.04 | Zoup_ | IXian-Probe: your solution is impossible in enterprise :) |
| 11:08.17 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: I beg your pardon but no |
| 11:08.18 | ieatlint | note that i'm not bashing debian exactly, i'm merely arguing that the exclusion of gentoo because it compiles packages is a flawed criticism |
| 11:08.20 | Zoup_ | IXian-Probe: at least , not logical , why you maintain maintained ? |
| 11:08.20 | Wander_w | tis opensource; what is this nonsense about some distro's being "less configurable"? |
| 11:08.31 | Ainulindale | I currently work for sanofi-aventis and I'm doing exactly what IXian-Probe said |
| 11:08.35 | Zoup_ | Wander_w: i agree |
| 11:09.07 | ieatlint | Zoup_, it matters, especially on some packages |
| 11:09.09 | roh | Ainulindale i think i just explained why such a discussion is worthless and cannot follow up to something where one discusses on a base of arguments, since its obvius one doesnt know how things are really working in the first place. |
| 11:09.11 | ieatlint | mplayer, for instance |
| 11:09.23 | Ainulindale | roh: :-) |
| 11:09.29 | roh | ieatlint where does one exclude gentoo? |
| 11:09.38 | Ainulindale | roh: I don't remember how this conversation started by the way |
| 11:09.44 | Wander_w | mplayer is best compiled by yourself, on any distro |
| 11:09.46 | IXian-Probe | Zoup_: Let me put it this way.. I'm not letting anything other than Debian or Freebsd near _my_ servers thank you. Regardless of compiletime and installtimes. Such things doesn't even enter the consideration in _enterprise_.. It does on the other hand figure big when geeks start comparing penis sizes... eg.. bogomips and compiletimes ^_^ |
| 11:09.46 | Ainulindale | I'm pretty sure it was because I said "debian sucks" out of the blue |
| 11:09.46 | Zoup_ | ieatlint: mplayer installation takes as long as copying files for me :) |
| 11:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko troy_ (n=troy@142.166.111.209) |
| 11:09.58 | roh | (besides in lots of projects which close 50%of gentoo-users bugreports as 'wontfix, do not fuck up the cflags' |
| 11:10.18 | ieatlint | damn right roh, it's a fucking feature, not a bug. |
| 11:10.30 | Ainulindale | roh: true :-) |
| 11:10.44 | IXian-Probe | signing of trollfest ^_^ |
| 11:10.50 | Zoup_ | IXian-Probe: Its perfect if you can Maintain every pieces , but in "Enterprise" you dont have time to : |
| 11:10.51 | ieatlint | and i'm an rhce, so i've had my fill of yum/apt-get |
| 11:10.55 | roh | ieatlint yes..its a mighty feature, still its a bug to touch it if one has 'no clue' |
| 11:10.58 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-179-204.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:11.24 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: depends on the enterprise |
| 11:11.33 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: Zillion of angry customers |
| 11:11.34 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: some ministeries in France are starting to ask that |
| 11:11.38 | IXian-Probe | hmm.. OT/HUMOR : Is Trolltech a company that create irc troll bots? ^_^ |
| 11:11.39 | IXian-Probe | ;) |
| 11:11.48 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@rt94.highlink.ru) |
| 11:11.48 | roh | ieatlint touching cflags means 'youre on your own, or need to know what you are doing', thus i can only agree with projects that close bugs which have their origin in 'wrong cflag-settings' .. still no harm intended. |
| 11:11.50 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.218.41.31) |
| 11:11.57 | Zoup_ | IXian-Probe: haha , im not from troll tech |
| 11:12.09 | IXian-Probe | me neither, but it's a lame joke anyway ;) |
| 11:12.15 | ieatlint | you shouldn't touch the cflags on a running system though |
| 11:12.23 | roh | to be fair, i find it quite sad that the 'users' in gentoo made work of maintainers so unbearable for some time, that many good people left to other distros/projects |
| 11:12.28 | Zoup_ | WHY! IS THIS OPENMOKO ? :)) |
| 11:12.30 | *** join/#openmoko erwin_ (n=erwin@84-75-28-22.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:12.45 | Zoup_ | and in the end , i says its unfair to say debian sucks :) |
| 11:12.49 | *** join/#openmoko smhar (n=Home@193.188.117.67) |
| 11:13.00 | Ainulindale | roh: that's a problem within the maintainer community |
| 11:13.04 | *** join/#openmoko MrShlee (n=MrShlee@219-90-154-39.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 11:13.06 | ieatlint | i stand by my description of it being a blunt tool |
| 11:13.19 | Ainulindale | There's people which tend to redirect bugs to upstream without a reason |
| 11:13.42 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: unfair ? No. Subjective ? Yes ! :-) |
| 11:13.43 | roh | ieatlint the point is: you shouldnt touch them at all if you do not know what youre doing. and if one just tries to set ones globally the 'one' is most certainly _wrong_.. see qemu, see mplayer.. touching cflags there _breaks_ stuff. and _is_ wrong |
| 11:14.03 | Zoup_ | Ainulindale: hahhaha :) |
| 11:14.13 | Ainulindale | Zoup_: that's the main point I think |
| 11:14.21 | Ainulindale | Each and every one of us looks for something different that's all |
| 11:14.22 | roh | Ainulindale could be.. i am a ubuntu/debian poweruser, but i still like openwrt and openembedded for the embedded world. |
| 11:14.32 | Ainulindale | You prefer features which suck, and I'm not that's all :-P |
| 11:14.32 | Zoup_ | ieatlint , Ainulindale : if in your envinronment debian sucks , it not necessary sucks everywhere :) |
| 11:14.45 | ieatlint | i didn't say it sucked :P |
| 11:14.50 | Ainulindale | No I did :-) |
| 11:14.57 | ieatlint | and i still say that you shouldn't be changing your cflags |
| 11:14.59 | roh | Ainulindale and i wouldnt use gentoo not because of the idea, but because they havent enough good people for the quality i need in total |
| 11:15.01 | Ainulindale | But I like to be provocative ;-) |
| 11:15.11 | HauDyrArb | Ainulindale, you are |
| 11:15.13 | Ainulindale | roh: I see your point |
| 11:15.24 | Ainulindale | HauDyrArb: that's because I'm sick and bored ! |
| 11:15.31 | Ainulindale | I can't work, I'm at home sweating like a pig in a sauna |
| 11:15.36 | Ainulindale | With the nose bigger than a potatoe |
| 11:15.44 | Ainulindale | And it's summer !! ! |
| 11:15.57 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: well.. at least you have your moko to play with? |
| 11:15.57 | ieatlint | gentoo has serious issues, and i won't claim otherwise, but i like it |
| 11:15.57 | HauDyrArb | its also funny to read when all jumops to Debians side :-) |
| 11:15.57 | Zoup_ | hey can you install Gentoo on Freerunner ? |
| 11:16.01 | roh | Ainulindale e.g. on the desktop i have ubuntu everyhwere because the gnome stuff is properly configured to 'start working' and not waste days in setting up stuff |
| 11:16.04 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: Noooo ! :'-( |
| 11:16.16 | ieatlint | Zoup_, in theory, yes... they have support for arm |
| 11:16.18 | roh | after 10 years on linux one sees some things differently ;) |
| 11:16.27 | Ainulindale | roh: I installed ubuntu on several computers for my friends, because I see plainly it's something easy to use |
| 11:16.41 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:17.25 | Wander_w | that's why there is Ubuntu |
| 11:17.36 | Ainulindale | Ubuntu isn't the same thing I think |
| 11:17.36 | *** part/#openmoko diego_at_work (i=5960ae7b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b7f9f95752f4bfcb) |
| 11:17.49 | Ainulindale | Mostly because there's compiz-fusion |
| 11:17.51 | Ainulindale | Which is baaad |
| 11:17.53 | Ainulindale | starts a new troll |
| 11:18.07 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: why is compiz bad? |
| 11:18.11 | Ainulindale | huhu |
| 11:18.17 | Wander_w | I'm quite fond of it |
| 11:18.20 | ieatlint | i happen to support fascism, actually |
| 11:18.26 | Ainulindale | I still can't understand its use, besides the graphical acceleration trough hardware |
| 11:18.34 | Ainulindale | +h |
| 11:18.57 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: until recently I used fluxbox, I think it's a good testimony of my graphical taste |
| 11:19.06 | roh | it has no use. its for people who like eye-candy. |
| 11:19.11 | Wander_w | it's use is to provide some sort of distraction of the thing ppl call "work" |
| 11:19.19 | roh | its for them to shut up and let other people work on stuff that makes sense |
| 11:19.20 | Wander_w | and to impress chicks ofcourse |
| 11:19.28 | Ainulindale | roh: hahaha :-) |
| 11:19.29 | IXian-Probe | *snicker* |
| 11:19.44 | ieatlint | yeah, i've had too many people go "look what i can do" |
| 11:19.46 | Ainulindale | I'm picturing Wander_w trying to impress chicks |
| 11:19.59 | ieatlint | as useful as having your desktops appear on a 3d box is... |
| 11:20.05 | Wander_w | "look at my cube! it rotates!" |
| 11:20.05 | ieatlint | i somehow am comfortable with the 2d |
| 11:20.10 | Ainulindale | "Wait, I'll show you something. Wait what was the keyboard shortcut again ? ... mmmm grep... hmmm cat.... Seg fault ?!" |
| 11:20.53 | Ainulindale | I think the only feature I like on compiz is the shortcuts on reduced windows, showing the activity |
| 11:21.36 | Wander_w | but seriously... compiz has convinced more of my friends to try linux than any other piece of software |
| 11:21.48 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: It's sad :-) |
| 11:22.01 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: It's reality; get used to it |
| 11:22.01 | ieatlint | ahh *nix... where else can we elitist fucks argue over semantics that no one else understands or cares about |
| 11:22.10 | ieatlint | openbsd rules! |
| 11:22.13 | ieatlint | :P |
| 11:22.16 | Ainulindale | People who come to the linux world in order to have better eye candy won't say long |
| 11:22.28 | Wander_w | ieatlint: Theo? Is that you? |
| 11:22.29 | Ainulindale | Because even on Ubuntu, you will have to do something with CLI tools |
| 11:22.54 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: you're just wrong about that |
| 11:22.58 | Ainulindale | (it was "stay long" of course) |
| 11:23.09 | Ainulindale | (My keyboard is trying to flee my flu) |
| 11:23.26 | ieatlint | maybe if you got rid of the azerty layout it'd help |
| 11:23.26 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: I don't think I'm wrong, it's a personal experience |
| 11:23.29 | HauDyrArb | You cant escape the CLI |
| 11:23.33 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: ttsss :-) |
| 11:23.36 | ieatlint | honestly, why is your m next to the L? |
| 11:23.42 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: My parents don't even know what a CLI is, but use Linux |
| 11:24.01 | Wander_w | for quite a long time allready |
| 11:24.03 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: that way we can write more easily "lamer" :-p |
| 11:24.18 | Ainulindale | (And I don't know why) |
| 11:24.26 | Ainulindale | (I'm qwerty/azerty fluent) |
| 11:24.34 | ieatlint | i use qwertz myself |
| 11:24.40 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: but you help them |
| 11:24.45 | ieatlint | although living in the states, i am qwerty fluent as well |
| 11:24.47 | Ainulindale | When they have a problem |
| 11:24.54 | Ainulindale | Or they have fixed needs |
| 11:25.02 | Wander_w | Wander_w: I install software for them *just like i did with windows* |
| 11:25.04 | Ainulindale | Because when someone tries to do something specific |
| 11:25.11 | Ainulindale | Or tries to use esoteric devices |
| 11:25.12 | ieatlint | brb, more beer |
| 11:25.16 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 11:25.25 | Ainulindale | You won't be able to help him as exactly as you would do with CLI |
| 11:25.59 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: what do you mean? I just install updates occasionally and kick the printer |
| 11:26.01 | ieatlint | mmm, beer |
| 11:26.04 | Wander_w | and that is it |
| 11:26.06 | *** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 11:26.20 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: For example, they want their computer in wifi, or they have bought a scanner, etc... |
| 11:26.32 | Wander_w | They don't buy that |
| 11:26.37 | Wander_w | don't do wifi |
| 11:26.40 | Ainulindale | Yep so that's your example :-) |
| 11:26.43 | Ainulindale | My friends do that |
| 11:26.45 | Wander_w | they do as I tell them to do |
| 11:26.49 | Ainulindale | And it's hard for them |
| 11:26.59 | Ainulindale | A friend of mine tried to install ampache |
| 11:27.03 | Ainulindale | The php library manager |
| 11:27.15 | Ainulindale | He didn't understand he needed apache |
| 11:27.19 | Ainulindale | For him it was the same |
| 11:27.32 | Ainulindale | I had to help him, and it was pure commandline :-) |
| 11:27.46 | ieatlint | Ainulindale, let me say that your english is extremely good... your word choice and sentence structure are that of a native speaker |
| 11:28.00 | Wander_w | could you friend do these same installations on windows by him/herself? |
| 11:28.18 | bobkare | Is there any howto-like docs for taking an existing application and packaging it for opkg and make it show up nicely in the menu? |
| 11:28.22 | Ainulindale | Thanks, I'll try to be ill more often :§) |
| 11:28.29 | ieatlint | haha |
| 11:28.35 | *** join/#openmoko diego_at_work (i=5960ae7b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b7f9f95752f4bfcb) |
| 11:28.35 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: I switched keyboards just for your pleasure |
| 11:28.39 | Ainulindale | azerty macintosh |
| 11:28.52 | ieatlint | too bad i don't like france :P |
| 11:28.53 | Wander_w | azerty... that french? |
| 11:28.54 | Ainulindale | (a friend of mine gave me a powerbook in order to install gentoo) |
| 11:29.03 | Wander_w | ah.. "bonjour, ca va?" |
| 11:29.30 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: a good way to say hi is "debian suce des ours guatémaltèques" |
| 11:29.44 | Ainulindale | (Debian sucks bears from guatemala) |
| 11:29.46 | Wander_w | had a year of french classes in highschool |
| 11:30.14 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: just to answer your question, in this case in windows I think it still could be hard |
| 11:30.18 | Ainulindale | But things like using a scanner |
| 11:30.24 | Ainulindale | I think it's not mature enough right now |
| 11:30.33 | Ainulindale | And given its maturity it's hard for users |
| 11:30.36 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: yeah; why don't you try to say Hi in dutch: "Ik gebruik niets liever dan debian" |
| 11:31.07 | Ainulindale | I won't try to speak dutch because duch sucks at least like debian :§p |
| 11:31.09 | Ainulindale | ARGH |
| 11:31.12 | Ainulindale | This keyboard drives me mad |
| 11:31.27 | ieatlint | lol |
| 11:31.28 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: just a particular group of users: those that can use windows well |
| 11:31.30 | ieatlint | i like dutch :) |
| 11:31.36 | Ainulindale | I prefer dutch people |
| 11:31.38 | *** join/#openmoko p3t3r__ (n=peter@wlan.net-you.de) |
| 11:31.46 | Ainulindale | I went on a wonderful trip near Delft |
| 11:31.50 | Wander_w | steps away from Ainulindale |
| 11:31.56 | ieatlint | i speak english and a bit of german, so i can read a bit of dutch |
| 11:31.58 | Wander_w | just what are you planning to do to me? |
| 11:32.05 | Ainulindale | :-) |
| 11:32.18 | Ainulindale | Seriously the only problem with dutch people is that they're way too tall |
| 11:32.23 | ieatlint | lol |
| 11:32.28 | ieatlint | dutch women are hot though |
| 11:32.44 | ieatlint | and the dutch travel a lot... everywhere i've gone, there are always dutch people |
| 11:32.48 | Ainulindale | I don't know I'm not allowed to look at women my girlfriend would kill me |
| 11:32.59 | ieatlint | lol |
| 11:33.03 | HauDyrArb | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:33.21 | ieatlint | my girlfriend will say "wow, look at her boobs" |
| 11:33.31 | Wander_w | yeah.. I can say a few words Thai, so I can read english |
| 11:33.54 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: and mine would say "wait you're looking at her boobs ? *plönk*" |
| 11:34.05 | ieatlint | you can read english because your dutch... :P |
| 11:34.14 | ieatlint | 90% of the dutch seem fluent in english |
| 11:34.27 | Wander_w | ieatlint: I wonder why that is :P |
| 11:34.33 | ieatlint | Ainulindale, clearly you need a bisexual girlfriend :P |
| 11:34.41 | HauDyrArb | only when you read it through a bottle of Vodka |
| 11:34.44 | ieatlint | movies |
| 11:34.50 | Ainulindale | (Because they're pretty much the only one speaking their tongue :-/) |
| 11:34.58 | ieatlint | haha, yeah... dutch? you mean ketel one, heineken and grolsch? |
| 11:35.00 | Wander_w | (It might be that english is taught from 10 years old until 16-22) |
| 11:35.18 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: same thing here now, but dutch people understood sonner it was necessary I think |
| 11:35.34 | Ainulindale | In France we still have those people thinking about the french "exception" |
| 11:35.51 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: yeah, and the english movies don't get dubbed over in the native tongue |
| 11:36.00 | *** join/#openmoko clarkphp (n=clark@adsl-074-244-241-038.sip.bna.bellsouth.net) |
| 11:36.03 | ieatlint | yep |
| 11:36.04 | Ainulindale | Yep that's awful |
| 11:36.24 | bobkare | Dutch seems to be a weird combination of english deutch and scandinavian languages minus pretty much all the consonants |
| 11:36.29 | ieatlint | my german friends in d?sseldorf drive to nl to see movies because of that |
| 11:36.30 | Wander_w | (The A-team in german is rather amusing) |
| 11:36.34 | Ainulindale | In our french tv networks, there's just one channel which broadcast movies in the original tongue |
| 11:36.46 | Ainulindale | And one out of six broadcasts |
| 11:36.57 | Ainulindale | (of the same movie) |
| 11:37.13 | ieatlint | south park in german isn't |
| 11:37.34 | ieatlint | i was watching it to see what they said for "oh no! you killed kenny!" "you bastards!" |
| 11:37.34 | Wander_w | yeah... but the subtitles are allways just over the tits of the girls :P |
| 11:37.54 | ieatlint | instead it was like "ach schei?e! sie haben kenny ermordert |
| 11:38.13 | ieatlint | and that was i |
| 11:38.13 | ieatlint | t |
| 11:38.16 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: god bless you |
| 11:38.24 | Wander_w | ieatlint: .. yeah... amusing; that's what I said |
| 11:39.04 | ieatlint | and germans somehow just don't seem to find nazi jokes funny |
| 11:39.12 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: in France for people my age (25) we started studying english at 12 |
| 11:39.22 | Ainulindale | Now children start at 8 or 10 |
| 11:39.32 | ieatlint | my friends were aghast when they visited california and heard us using nazi casually to describe people |
| 11:40.11 | ieatlint | schools here start teaching foreign language in year 7, but it's optional |
| 11:40.12 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: good for them, I'll ask a 8 yo. if I want a "Bloc du glace" (and not a glass of beer) |
| 11:40.27 | *** join/#openmoko xMDKx (n=mdkcore@nat/mandriva/x-bc06ec921c7ab9bb) |
| 11:40.35 | ieatlint | is taught through year 12, but many colleges require 2 years of foreign language |
| 11:40.45 | ieatlint | spanish is most popular here, being california |
| 11:40.47 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: a "bloc de glace" ? |
| 11:40.50 | ieatlint | followed by mandarin |
| 11:41.03 | Wander_w | (we went on a holiday to france once, and no matter what we asked; we allway got a glass of beer) |
| 11:41.13 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: a block of ice |
| 11:41.27 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: yep thanks, I can pretty much speak french :-P |
| 11:41.27 | ieatlint | lol, and you're complaining? |
| 11:41.35 | Ainulindale | But french beers are horrid |
| 11:41.50 | ieatlint | kronnenbourg isn't bad... although it's essentially german |
| 11:41.56 | Wander_w | ieatlint: well.. yeah, we needed the ice to cool our stash of beer |
| 11:42.00 | Ainulindale | I'm forced to order online in order to have real beers |
| 11:42.17 | Ainulindale | (belgian beers) |
| 11:42.23 | ieatlint | i can't get palm or altbier here... and that makes me sad |
| 11:42.30 | Ainulindale | (not german one which suck as much as debian) |
| 11:42.42 | Ainulindale | whistles |
| 11:42.50 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: and what about the dutch beers? :P |
| 11:42.50 | ieatlint | well, i can pay $8 for a 8+month old altbier, but meh |
| 11:43.02 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: I don't think I ever drank one |
| 11:43.05 | ieatlint | dutch beers? :P |
| 11:43.11 | *** part/#openmoko diego_at_work (i=5960ae7b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b7f9f95752f4bfcb) |
| 11:43.14 | ieatlint | heineken is the universal "okay, i can drink that" |
| 11:43.24 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: no. |
| 11:43.26 | ieatlint | grolsch is "yeah, it's a good pilsener" |
| 11:43.38 | ieatlint | and that about covers dutch beer |
| 11:43.43 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: Heineken? |
| 11:43.56 | Ainulindale | Each time I drink Heineken, a new tentacle grows on my forehead |
| 11:44.03 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (i=andre@weissburgunder.am.uni-erlangen.de) |
| 11:44.13 | Ainulindale | It's awful, it's not even beer ! |
| 11:44.19 | Ainulindale | It's a lager for god sakes :-) |
| 11:44.25 | Ainulindale | -s |
| 11:44.26 | ieatlint | i drink local myself |
| 11:44.37 | Wander_w | ieatlint: jupiler? Brand? Oranjeboom? Amstel? |
| 11:44.38 | ieatlint | the west coast of the US has some fantastic beers |
| 11:44.47 | ieatlint | amstel is meh |
| 11:44.54 | ieatlint | oranjeboom is on par with heineken |
| 11:44.57 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: jupiler is drinkable, but just barely |
| 11:44.59 | ieatlint | brand and jupiler i've not had |
| 11:45.18 | ieatlint | i got addicted to palm last time i was in holland |
| 11:45.19 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: if you want true beer, Tongerlo, Rochefort, Kaastelbier, Tripel Karmeliet and so on |
| 11:45.28 | ieatlint | although i'm not a huge belgian beer fan |
| 11:45.37 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: there's a french website (which also exists in dutch) which is selling them |
| 11:45.39 | Wander_w | *Kasteelbier |
| 11:45.57 | ieatlint | come try some western US beer :P |
| 11:45.58 | Ainulindale | Last time I ordered 20 liters |
| 11:46.01 | ieatlint | anchor steam |
| 11:46.17 | ieatlint | the style is "california common" ... unique to us |
| 11:46.20 | ieatlint | good shit |
| 11:46.31 | ieatlint | british ales are also fantastic |
| 11:47.14 | ieatlint | and go to the czech republic for a pilsener... |
| 11:47.19 | ieatlint | austrian beer sucks ass |
| 11:47.28 | ieatlint | don't let them convince you g?sser is good |
| 11:47.38 | bumbl | ieatlint: that isn't true |
| 11:47.48 | *** join/#openmoko nadio (n=nobody@about/philosophy/nadio) |
| 11:47.57 | ieatlint | which part? :P |
| 11:48.02 | Ainulindale | Here's a more constructive troll than the distro one :-) |
| 11:48.03 | bumbl | Goesser sucks but Stiegl is really good |
| 11:48.07 | nadio | Hello, I am wonder if its acceptable to ask a GSM/3G related question here=? |
| 11:48.15 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 11:48.16 | ieatlint | stiegl? that's austrian? |
| 11:48.26 | bumbl | yes |
| 11:48.34 | *** join/#openmoko eth01 (i=foo@gentoo/user/eth01) |
| 11:48.39 | Wander_w | Openmoko doesn't have 3g, if that's what you are asking |
| 11:48.47 | ieatlint | ok, i like stiegl |
| 11:48.52 | eth01 | reason i don't use it |
| 11:48.54 | eth01 | muaha. |
| 11:49.01 | bumbl | since 1492 good beer |
| 11:49.05 | roh | bobkare have you seen http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain ? |
| 11:49.12 | nadio | I have a data card, Named "Option qualcomm 3g CDMA" Wonder what is the name of the manufactor? |
| 11:49.18 | nadio | Option or qualcomm ? |
| 11:49.25 | eth01 | considering most of the networks here are private, just wouldn't be possible |
| 11:49.46 | ieatlint | qualcomm is cdma, and entirely incompatible with gsm |
| 11:49.55 | nadio | CDMA? |
| 11:50.06 | eth01 | Code division multiple access |
| 11:50.07 | nadio | ok thanks, so Option the manufactor? |
| 11:50.08 | ieatlint | cdma is a protocol |
| 11:50.12 | ieatlint | gsm is a protocol |
| 11:50.17 | eth01 | er, channel access |
| 11:50.19 | ieatlint | they are not at all compatible |
| 11:50.40 | Wander_w | nadio: is there a FCC number on it? You can use that number to find the manufacturer |
| 11:50.44 | bobkare | roh: thanks for the tip, I'll start there |
| 11:50.51 | roh | ieatlint do not confuse stuff there.. 2g is GMSK modulation, 3g uses WCDMA. |
| 11:50.59 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 11:51.02 | roh | nadio ack. option is the manuf. |
| 11:51.06 | ieatlint | true, but cdma is not wcdma |
| 11:51.09 | roh | qualcom builds chips |
| 11:51.11 | ieatlint | 3g has too many names :( |
| 11:51.19 | ieatlint | qualcom also owns the patents on cdma |
| 11:51.23 | ieatlint | and is a nazi with them |
| 11:51.28 | Ainulindale | By the way guys, up to date monotone checkout : a setup.py file is missing for zhone |
| 11:51.34 | Ainulindale | (for fso-image) |
| 11:51.36 | bobkare | roh: I'm thinking of helping package rana (openstreetmap viewing/routing with it's own renderer) |
| 11:52.13 | nadio | Wander_w: Yes |
| 11:52.24 | nadio | FCC ID |
| 11:52.25 | ieatlint | i'm using beer to alieviate pain from a wisdom tooth... this is probably not a smart decision |
| 11:52.49 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: no it's not. Beer is the solution to everything. |
| 11:53.01 | ieatlint | agreed :) |
| 11:53.35 | ieatlint | it is also my solution to the fact that i have to sit across a table for 6 hours on tuesday as the person i hate most in the world is questioned by my lawyer... |
| 11:53.42 | Ainulindale | I wonder when bearstech will receive their freerunner, sigh'. |
| 11:53.47 | ieatlint | alcohol makes me not stress about it :) |
| 11:53.48 | Wander_w | ieatlint: better use something stronger; whiskey or such |
| 11:54.04 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: huh ? |
| 11:54.10 | ieatlint | yeah, i've got some glenlivet 18 year here... i should switch |
| 11:54.13 | roh | bobkare the toolchain is nice for testing and building simple, single things.. on the long run a bitbake recipe (.bb file) and inclusion into OE would be nice |
| 11:54.28 | ieatlint | i'm suing someone and they give their deposition on tuesday |
| 11:54.35 | ieatlint | (it's the american way..." |
| 11:54.37 | ieatlint | ) |
| 11:54.38 | Ainulindale | Oh |
| 11:54.56 | Ainulindale | I don't know if it's quick in the USA but in France... |
| 11:55.08 | nadio | What does the SNR (Serial) Number stand for? |
| 11:55.09 | Ainulindale | It has been a year since I sued my previous landlord |
| 11:55.11 | ieatlint | no, it's slow... 12-18 months |
| 11:55.13 | Ainulindale | Still waiting for the results |
| 11:55.21 | *** join/#openmoko russellb (n=russell@asterisk/developer-and-stable-maintainer/drumkilla) |
| 11:55.25 | Ainulindale | Which should come in october or so |
| 11:55.25 | nadio | Also a type of FCC ID ? |
| 11:55.32 | Wander_w | nadio: no |
| 11:56.06 | bobkare | roh: this should be pretty simple, it's a python app that I pretty much just have to run after installing some deps |
| 11:56.08 | ieatlint | my father died last year with a brain tumour... my evil sister got him to change his will 3 weeks before he died when he couldn't state his name |
| 11:56.14 | ieatlint | so i'm suing my sister |
| 11:56.36 | nadio | Please explain the use of SNR ? |
| 11:57.01 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: nice :-/ |
| 11:57.41 | ieatlint | yeah, and that's no lie... she's made up some pretty horrible things about me to try and explain it... and i get to sit across from her tuesday :) |
| 11:57.55 | Wander_w | nadio: the serial number is for the manufacturer to track where, when and how a device was made |
| 11:58.31 | *** join/#openmoko Subfusc (n=Subfusc@kri3-1x-dhcp375.studby.uio.no) |
| 11:58.37 | ieatlint | yay for booze |
| 11:58.58 | Subfusc | hurray |
| 11:59.47 | Wander_w | so if you have a defect device, a manufacturer can go "Oh SNR #XYZ was made by machine X which had fault Y so now the solution is to do Z" |
| 12:02.32 | nadio | I am having a little problem, "OPTION GlobeTrotter PC cards only. This Firmware and Software is not intended for customized PC cards obtained through a Network Operator (eg. Vodafone, T-Mobile," |
| 12:03.01 | nadio | Problem is I have, one of these, cards, and I need to unlock it, by reflashing the rom, (because its operator locked) |
| 12:03.37 | nadio | the manufactorer says just that my card doesn't exist in there database, and noway to continue :( |
| 12:03.40 | Ainulindale | So, has anybody had the same problem I had with setup.py while building zhone ? |
| 12:09.20 | *** join/#openmoko spdr (n=spdr@DSL217-132-195-69.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 12:14.29 | *** join/#openmoko kvk (n=vinu@61.16.248.242) |
| 12:15.45 | *** join/#openmoko Tig| (n=tigger@82.153.215.237) |
| 12:16.14 | *** join/#openmoko piti (n=pablo@mut38-1-82-67-65-78.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:16.50 | *** join/#openmoko atul (n=qvantel@61.16.248.242) |
| 12:18.15 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r5befce0fdbad 10/devices/ficgta01/src/plugins/phonevendors/ficgta01/vendor_ficgta01.cpp: [gsm] Do not announce calls as incoming that were outgoing |
| 12:18.17 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r4536af05deff 10/src/ (10 files in 6 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/qtopia |
| 12:18.52 | yangvnc | This Neo FreeRunner is still a beta version (not ready for mass market) ? |
| 12:19.39 | HauDyrArb | The software is the hardware should be OK |
| 12:21.37 | yangvnc | Is a version after FreeRunner planned also? |
| 12:21.51 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@e177191157.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:24.02 | mjr | gta03 is in planning stages, belldandy knows how long it'll take though |
| 12:24.08 | mjr | certainly the 02 took its while :] |
| 12:25.04 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-75-28-22.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:27.51 | yangvnc | I am trying openmoko on A780 and I must say that the interface is really nice and clean ! |
| 12:28.23 | yangvnc | However the dialing doesn't work out yet on this phone |
| 12:29.04 | edistar_ | yangvnc: \o/ cool |
| 12:32.58 | *** join/#openmoko troy_ (n=troy@142.166.111.114) |
| 12:34.07 | *** join/#openmoko lzy-- (n=lzy@59-126-117-54.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 12:34.53 | Wander_w | what is a A780> |
| 12:34.56 | Wander_w | ? |
| 12:35.18 | Tig| | Motorolla phone according to google |
| 12:35.36 | Wander_w | ah.. didn't know openmoko works on those as well |
| 12:38.52 | yangvnc | Wander_w: yep partially |
| 12:45.28 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176120054.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:47.53 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03werner * r4511 10/developers/werner/mic/ (. README SIMULATE a6.sch a7.sch dat2qdf out2dat wolfson.sch): Simulation of the GTA02 microphone input circuit. |
| 12:47.58 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 12:49.49 | evolux | i'm trying to follow http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr but i get some linker error: |
| 12:50.00 | evolux | /home/evolux/stuff/openmoko/build/tmp/staging/i486-angstrom-linux/usr/lib/libecore_con.so: undefined reference to `curl_easy_setopt@CURL_OPENSSL_3' |
| 12:51.09 | evolux | i'm using ubuntu and i know that there is "libcurl-gnutls" and "libcurl-openssl". But i'm not really sure how to tell mokomakefile which one to use |
| 12:51.36 | *** part/#openmoko jeremy_chan1 (n=jeremy_c@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 12:51.40 | *** part/#openmoko AndrewMohawk (n=andrew@dsl-240-191-188.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 12:52.43 | *** join/#openmoko sindre (n=sindre@084202252254.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 12:53.01 | Wander_w | apt-get remove libcurl-gnutls; apt-get install libcurl-openssl ? |
| 12:55.19 | evolux | it seems that there is only gnutls for libcurl3 |
| 12:55.26 | evolux | but i have installed openssl for curl4 |
| 12:56.03 | *** join/#openmoko ernst (i=ernst@d062087.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 12:56.26 | evolux | i don't really know bitbake. Is it enough to just restart make openmoko-devel-image after having changed the installed libraries? |
| 12:59.03 | Wander_w | can't hurt to try |
| 12:59.37 | evolux | but of course, it does not work ;-) |
| 13:01.23 | *** join/#openmoko kduboi1 (n=kevin@d149-67-242-122.clv.wideopenwest.com) |
| 13:02.08 | Wander_w | .... then do a make clean? |
| 13:02.40 | Wander_w | make distclean, make proper, make mrproper or make justcleanitallready |
| 13:03.50 | ieatlint | whisky good |
| 13:03.55 | Wander_w | told you so |
| 13:04.03 | ieatlint | indeed |
| 13:04.04 | ieatlint | :) |
| 13:04.08 | Wander_w | :) |
| 13:04.45 | Wander_w | .... it's not a good idea to sit drunk in front of a lawyer though |
| 13:05.02 | ieatlint | heh, i'll be sober for that |
| 13:05.40 | ieatlint | i sit sober in front of a lawyer, then take a train back into san francisco, drive to pick up my girlfriend from a different train, and then get drunk as hell |
| 13:05.42 | Wander_w | maybe valium is a good idea :P |
| 13:05.45 | ieatlint | that'S my plan :) |
| 13:05.57 | ieatlint | i have valium, but... not a good idea |
| 13:06.24 | ieatlint | i have another sister who got an addiction to valium and vicodin... don't fuck with it |
| 13:06.33 | Wander_w | doesn't go down well with the booze you are planning to drink |
| 13:06.41 | ieatlint | plus valium+alcohol == liver failure |
| 13:06.48 | Wander_w | haha... nice sisters you have :P |
| 13:07.02 | ieatlint | yeah, well, the drug addict one isn't evil |
| 13:07.18 | HauDyrArb | remember Prince Valium from Spaceballs? |
| 13:07.21 | Wander_w | no |
| 13:07.24 | ieatlint | hehe |
| 13:08.03 | ieatlint | as i said, i have valium, but i only take it if i really need it or am going for certain medical operations for which i have phobias (and for which it is prescribed) |
| 13:08.18 | ieatlint | i'm irish, we stick to our booze |
| 13:08.44 | Wander_w | good for you... but I thought you were USAian |
| 13:08.44 | pvborza | here's a video with my gesture recognition library that is also used on the Neo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX50lXuJ28Q |
| 13:09.00 | ieatlint | yeah, i'm an american |
| 13:09.07 | ieatlint | a calfironian, i like to specify |
| 13:09.08 | pvborza | hope you enjoy watching the gestures and controlling Amarok with the Wii http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX50lXuJ28Q |
| 13:09.16 | HauDyrArb | Irish/Ameriacan :-) |
| 13:09.35 | ieatlint | in the US, we're all immigrants, so we identify ourselves as irish, british, french, german, chinese, et |
| 13:09.36 | ieatlint | c |
| 13:09.46 | ieatlint | we don't specify "irish-american", etc |
| 13:09.50 | Wander_w | .... that's pretty stupid |
| 13:09.51 | edistar_ | how do I activate vibration? echo 1 /sys/class/leds/xxx ? |
| 13:10.13 | ieatlint | we're known for stupidity, too |
| 13:10.16 | evolux | Wander_w: omg |
| 13:10.24 | Wander_w | because... you were born in the USA right? |
| 13:10.25 | ieatlint | but irish here refers to ethnicity |
| 13:10.30 | evolux | Wander_w: i would prefer not waiting another 8 hours for the compilation |
| 13:10.44 | ieatlint | just remember, california doesn't mean USA :P |
| 13:10.50 | ieatlint | i was born in california |
| 13:10.56 | Wander_w | evolux: it should skip the tasks that were already completed, relax |
| 13:11.06 | HauDyrArb | ieatlint, the "good" thing is there is stupidity enough to the whole world :-) |
| 13:11.07 | evolux | Wander_w: also after a make clean? |
| 13:11.10 | ieatlint | we legalised gay marriage, condemn the iraq war, etc |
| 13:11.20 | Wander_w | evolux: oh yeah... forgot about that |
| 13:11.25 | evolux | *g* |
| 13:11.39 | Wander_w | ieatlint: you copied the gay marriage from us |
| 13:11.47 | ieatlint | bah |
| 13:11.53 | ieatlint | we're san francisco |
| 13:11.58 | ieatlint | we copied gayness from no one! |
| 13:12.15 | Wander_w | ieatlint: ....riiiiight |
| 13:12.27 | HauDyrArb | san francisco = GAY |
| 13:12.36 | Wander_w | see: "What did the romans ever do for us" |
| 13:12.45 | ieatlint | i voted for obama, i was at the gay pride parade, and i proudly wear a gay pride obama sticker on my jacket |
| 13:12.51 | ieatlint | and i am not gay |
| 13:13.07 | HauDyrArb | at least you are happy |
| 13:13.10 | *** join/#openmoko dvarnes (n=davidv@203-206-128-239.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:13.13 | ieatlint | indeed :) |
| 13:13.47 | ieatlint | i condemn bigotry, as almost all san franciscans do |
| 13:14.16 | HauDyrArb | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry |
| 13:14.18 | ieatlint | and i'm proud that i my representative is the speaker of the house of representatives |
| 13:14.43 | ieatlint | that i live in the first US state that allows all gay marriages |
| 13:14.52 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 13:15.24 | ieatlint | and that our sewage treatment plant will soon be renamed in honour of our president |
| 13:16.22 | *** join/#openmoko kdubois (n=kdubois@fw.arb.zattoo.com) |
| 13:16.51 | ieatlint | i'm a socialist, and an educated one at that |
| 13:17.00 | HauDyrArb | The Geroge W. Bush SewagePlant |
| 13:17.17 | ieatlint | and my views and opinions are common, so i love my city and my state... the bear flag republic |
| 13:17.28 | ieatlint | essentially :) |
| 13:17.46 | ieatlint | we'll send our shit to george w bush |
| 13:19.04 | ieatlint | "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" -- Thomas Jefferson, a man who by all American accounts is a "founding father" -- a patriot, a founder |
| 13:19.08 | HauDyrArb | other presidents get Ships or Space centers named after them but not Bush :-) |
| 13:19.33 | *** join/#openmoko larry_jr (n=Larry@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:20.01 | ieatlint | and a man for whom i am named after |
| 13:21.03 | Ainulindale | It's funny how different people from America think really different about Bush |
| 13:21.17 | Ainulindale | Whereas in other countries there's some kind of unanimity on the subject |
| 13:21.34 | ieatlint | unanimity... have you seen bush's approval ratings? |
| 13:21.49 | *** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@i59F73320.versanet.de) |
| 13:21.52 | ieatlint | america is united in its disapproval of bush |
| 13:22.01 | Ainulindale | Now it is yes |
| 13:22.12 | ieatlint | true |
| 13:22.17 | ieatlint | it previously was not |
| 13:22.27 | Ainulindale | (Which is what I was wondering about) |
| 13:22.39 | ieatlint | i was anti-bush from the start |
| 13:22.53 | Ainulindale | Same thing for Patriot Act, I'm truly amazed at the fact it was adopted |
| 13:22.59 | ieatlint | but bear in mind, the US approval of the iraq war was because we were lied to |
| 13:23.01 | ieatlint | by bush |
| 13:23.16 | ieatlint | we were lied to |
| 13:23.31 | ieatlint | we trusted the office of the president |
| 13:23.33 | Ainulindale | Lied to, I don't know |
| 13:23.37 | Ainulindale | Bullied, I think so |
| 13:23.47 | ieatlint | our representatives were bullied, perhaps |
| 13:23.53 | ieatlint | but we believed them |
| 13:23.57 | ieatlint | well, many of us did |
| 13:24.05 | Ainulindale | Right now in France we have some motion ingoing about downloads and stuff |
| 13:24.05 | ieatlint | i didn't, and my representatives didn't |
| 13:24.17 | ieatlint | well, france isn't clean either |
| 13:24.30 | ieatlint | i am not one of the idiotic anti-french people |
| 13:24.31 | Ainulindale | If you're caught downloading illegaly, some private representatives of copyright owners could ask providers to cut off your access to the internet |
| 13:24.45 | Ainulindale | And it's clearly way too stupid |
| 13:24.52 | ieatlint | if you're caught downloading illegally, it's your issue |
| 13:24.59 | ieatlint | take better precautions |
| 13:25.07 | ieatlint | usenet with ssl :P |
| 13:25.10 | Ainulindale | That's not my case, but as I was saying |
| 13:25.20 | Ainulindale | If your access is cut |
| 13:25.31 | ieatlint | anyway, me point is that you can criticise the US all you want |
| 13:25.32 | Ainulindale | And if you can't access to the Internet in your home |
| 13:25.38 | ieatlint | but realise that the US is not a single body |
| 13:25.41 | Ainulindale | A part of your access to the information is cut |
| 13:25.52 | Ainulindale | And as in France there's a polemic about the mediatic power of the president |
| 13:25.55 | ieatlint | california never has supported bush |
| 13:26.04 | Ainulindale | It's truly harmful for freedom, and freedom of access to the information |
| 13:26.05 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: no - they shave there. |
| 13:26.14 | Ainulindale | But average people/voter doesn't have a clue about that |
| 13:26.17 | Ainulindale | So it goes on |
| 13:26.20 | ieatlint | i haven't shaved in like 10 days :P |
| 13:26.31 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: Oh I realize that |
| 13:26.37 | Ainulindale | As I said => |
| 13:26.50 | Ainulindale | "It's funny how different people from America think really different about Bush" |
| 13:27.19 | ieatlint | few people not involved in politics know more about the world than i do :) |
| 13:27.36 | ieatlint | i follow the AP, the bbc and der Spiegel religiously |
| 13:27.41 | ieatlint | and apply common sense to their reports |
| 13:27.45 | roh | i find it even more funny how many people from america think that somebody somewhere else should care for their unimportant dickfights |
| 13:27.59 | ieatlint | you should care |
| 13:28.06 | ieatlint | mccain vs obama |
| 13:28.16 | ieatlint | if you think it doesn't matter to you, you're blind |
| 13:28.30 | SpeedEvil | roh: it's unumportant only if america is isolationist, and never buys anything from anywhere else. |
| 13:28.37 | Ainulindale | It does matter but it's not as important as it seems, especially for european people |
| 13:28.46 | HauDyrArb | The more the governments fight p2p the more people start using GNUnet/FreeNet etc. |
| 13:28.57 | Ainulindale | For Europe what is more a bother is the conglomerate Sarkozy/Berlusconi, for example |
| 13:29.08 | ieatlint | heh |
| 13:29.09 | SpeedEvil | freenet/... have inherent bandwidth/security trades though. |
| 13:29.18 | ieatlint | yeah, sarkozy is... bizarre |
| 13:29.24 | roh | i don't give a s*it about who is the next figure to be controlled by the industry there. they all do not oppose war and military industry(on the contrary,, these companies found the elections) so the outcome is the same. |
| 13:29.29 | ieatlint | and berlunsconi... i don't get it |
| 13:29.31 | Ainulindale | HauDyrArb: Last motion about that in France could harm even that |
| 13:29.50 | ieatlint | roh, i realise how you feel |
| 13:29.51 | HauDyrArb | hour own then WIFI net |
| 13:29.54 | StealthCP | ok, from what I've gathered, the 850 appears to work in Mainland Europe.. right? |
| 13:29.58 | ieatlint | but obama truly is like kennedy |
| 13:29.59 | StealthCP | perhaps not just as much? |
| 13:30.04 | HauDyrArb | then our own WIFI net |
| 13:30.10 | ieatlint | he will end the iraq war as soon as he can |
| 13:30.17 | roh | ieatlint just for your information.. i'm german and feel 'european' |
| 13:30.18 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: you mean he's bound to get shot ? |
| 13:30.20 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: it varies |
| 13:30.31 | ieatlint | hah |
| 13:30.32 | roh | StealthCP 850 is for the us isolationists *cough* |
| 13:30.35 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: in some places, with some carriers it will work as well as a quadband phone. |
| 13:30.38 | StealthCP | I see. It looks like there'll be some areas which work and some which don't |
| 13:30.40 | ieatlint | i have a lot of respect for germans |
| 13:30.47 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: In others, it won't work at all. |
| 13:30.47 | ieatlint | exposed to them at a young age |
| 13:30.54 | ieatlint | my german friends support obama |
| 13:30.55 | StealthCP | right |
| 13:30.56 | roh | StealthCP gsm900 and 1800 are the 'international' bands |
| 13:30.56 | Ainulindale | "exposed" :-) |
| 13:31.00 | ieatlint | he is socialist |
| 13:31.10 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: not in the common sense |
| 13:31.17 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: for example, in the U, go with t-mobile, and you get as good performance as a quadband - t-mobile does not use 900MHz. |
| 13:31.20 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: UK |
| 13:31.22 | kdubois | ieatlint: ++ |
| 13:31.25 | Ainulindale | More a liberal democrat than a socialist I think |
| 13:31.32 | StealthCP | As I wish to use it in the US as well I think the 850 seems to be a good choice |
| 13:31.34 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: Also - t-mobile have nice pay-as-you-go tarrifs. |
| 13:31.37 | StealthCP | T-Mobile? hmm ok |
| 13:31.38 | Ainulindale | But then I ought to read more about his views |
| 13:31.38 | ieatlint | heh, well, i'm about as socialst as you can get |
| 13:31.46 | ieatlint | i admit he's moderate |
| 13:31.57 | StealthCP | I'm currently on O2, however I was considering Orange or the 3 network again |
| 13:32.13 | SpeedEvil | StealthCP: for example, 1 pound a day data cost cap, (.7p/k before that), and the ability to buy 5 days data for 2.50 |
| 13:32.15 | StealthCP | I actually live in Northern Ireland, so coverage of some networks isn't just as good on this side |
| 13:32.23 | Any_Key | pvborza, looks pretty good, dos gestures have to be as sharp as on the video? |
| 13:32.27 | ieatlint | obama is against starting wars |
| 13:32.40 | ieatlint | even if he only prevents a war with iran, i'll call him a success |
| 13:32.51 | HauDyrArb | ieatlint, what about finishing :-) |
| 13:32.53 | roh | ieatlint i think the us first needs to go bankrupt before anything will change in politics there. regarless if its about weapons or foreign policies. a 2-party system 'owned' by the industry is nothing which changes without strong force or reason. but surely not from within |
| 13:33.21 | pvborza | Any_Key: no, it all depends on the classifier |
| 13:33.28 | ieatlint | i agree that the 2 party system is a major flaw |
| 13:33.29 | Ainulindale | roh: I quite agree with that, even if it's kind of extremist |
| 13:33.37 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: And what if Iran suceeds in developing the ninja toads that they have been over the past decades? Will you be so grateful after you have been beheaded by a silent green assasin? |
| 13:33.37 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: a flaw, I don't think so |
| 13:33.41 | ieatlint | but the US going bankrupt would be bad for all |
| 13:33.43 | pvborza | Any_Key: on the Neo, the gestures won't need to be that quick and fast |
| 13:33.45 | Ainulindale | It's a consequence of the democracy |
| 13:33.57 | Ainulindale | We're going towards the same thing in France |
| 13:34.00 | ieatlint | SpeedEvil, if they get nuclear weapons, so be it |
| 13:34.02 | pvborza | Any_Key: it all depends on the values with which the classes were trained |
| 13:34.08 | ieatlint | iran isn't stupid |
| 13:34.11 | roh | of course.. but hey.. see how russia went from corrupt communism to corrupt kaapitalism, owned by the mobster... |
| 13:34.20 | ieatlint | if they attack someone with nukes, they'll get nuked |
| 13:34.22 | roh | went qite fast |
| 13:34.23 | ieatlint | and they know it |
| 13:34.44 | Ainulindale | ieatlint: In between some will die, and we won't get our phones |
| 13:34.50 | ieatlint | i expect the republican party here to split |
| 13:34.50 | Ainulindale | So it's as bad :§p |
| 13:34.56 | Ainulindale | (My keyboard is killing me) |
| 13:35.05 | ieatlint | the republican party is divided |
| 13:35.16 | roh | ieatlint thats why having ones is stupid in the first place (especially because its fscking expensive to 'have' |
| 13:35.18 | Any_Key | bets off all, lets train our phones to be gentle :-) very nice work! |
| 13:35.32 | ieatlint | between the "evolution doesn't exist" and the people who believe socialism is evil |
| 13:35.44 | kdubois | socialism is the worst |
| 13:35.45 | roh | ieatlint e.g. germany doesnt have nukes. and still is on the list of 'countries which just could build one if needed' |
| 13:35.46 | Ainulindale | Hahah, "evolution doesn't exist" |
| 13:35.47 | ieatlint | i fully expect there to be a wig party returning |
| 13:36.08 | SpeedEvil | roh: as could microsoft. |
| 13:36.09 | ieatlint | roh, yeah, well, sarkozy offered germany nukes |
| 13:36.12 | Ainulindale | I'm such a great fan of the Flying Spaghetti Monster :-) |
| 13:36.25 | CVirus | FSM FTW |
| 13:36.30 | Ainulindale | :-P |
| 13:36.32 | ieatlint | ja, FSM FTW! |
| 13:36.43 | roh | ieatlint whatfor? i guess he has understood one thing. not having ones is bliss. having ones gives you nothing besides _extreme_ costs |
| 13:36.45 | ieatlint | says the californian/san franciscan agnostic :P |
| 13:37.01 | ieatlint | he? |
| 13:37.04 | Ainulindale | Being agnostic is gay, so is being religious ! :-) |
| 13:37.14 | ieatlint | merkel declined the offer |
| 13:37.18 | ieatlint | not schoerder |
| 13:37.33 | roh | storing and handling such shit, and even the 'maintainance' is extemely expensive and brings one no gain in the end (besides not having radioactive leaks) .. but hey.. not having ones is even cheaper! |
| 13:37.56 | ieatlint | well, i don't support nuclear weapons |
| 13:38.08 | ieatlint | i support nuclear power plants, however |
| 13:38.11 | roh | after all.. wars with weapons are so obsolete. |
| 13:38.18 | ieatlint | indeed |
| 13:38.23 | ieatlint | wars are economic now |
| 13:38.24 | *** join/#openmoko Xaos (n=read@pool-71-170-53-17.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:38.37 | roh | wars are fought on the market.. just see how the dollar is worth nothing |
| 13:38.47 | ieatlint | indeed |
| 13:39.11 | ieatlint | america is as ignorant as you think |
| 13:39.19 | ieatlint | but there are intelligent americans nonetheless |
| 13:39.21 | Xaos | well, most of us anyway |
| 13:39.26 | roh | i have friends who fly to the us for work sometimes.. they always buy lots of stuff for us who do not travel there if not forced by gun. why? its so cheap to buy electronics there |
| 13:39.31 | SpeedEvil | roh: Saw some nice accelerometers that would just about fit in GTA01 - and give actual inertial guidance class performance, drifting under a meter in a minute. Then I got the price - 200 quid per axes :( |
| 13:39.35 | kdubois | ? i'm not big into tearing down my own country... |
| 13:39.48 | kdubois | also, i cant help but feel politics is slightly offtopic |
| 13:39.49 | roh | SpeedEvil hrhr |
| 13:40.08 | roh | kdubois indeed. |
| 13:40.11 | ieatlint | i have a well above average intelligence, and i've been to over 15 european countries... i fall into a very small minority of americans |
| 13:40.20 | ieatlint | i am not elitist, but i am proud of where i come from |
| 13:40.25 | Ainulindale | kdubois: yeah it was nicer when we talked about how debian sucks :-) |
| 13:40.27 | Xaos | I'm not big into tearing down my own country (USA) either, but our leadership has been destroying this country for decades and the ignorant public school educated nits don't care |
| 13:40.50 | ieatlint | but i also have been know to say that i am from the bear flag republic (ie, california) |
| 13:40.54 | SpeedEvil | And the UK has utterly failed to exploit our oil wealth. |
| 13:41.01 | SpeedEvil | Whcih is a shame, now it's all run out. |
| 13:41.04 | roh | ieatlint its not about intelligence. its about people who do stuff and not just sit around and do not care or ignore stuff. but yeah-.. this discussion went much to far |
| 13:41.22 | kdubois | Ainulindale: the default etch kernel has a bug that makes gdb useless ;) but i still use debian anyways |
| 13:41.22 | ieatlint | i do what is within my power |
| 13:41.28 | Xaos | ieatlint: I'm from the Great Sovereign Republic of Texas myself. ;-) |
| 13:41.43 | ieatlint | i attend protests, i sign petitions, i vote for politicians who support my beliefs |
| 13:41.57 | Ainulindale | Which is pretty useless nowadays unfortunately |
| 13:42.01 | ieatlint | Xaos, and the bear flag honours texas |
| 13:42.07 | Xaos | ;-) |
| 13:42.18 | ieatlint | the california flag's star and red stripe is a homage to texas :) |
| 13:42.23 | roh | too many people think in 'countries' or republics or so anyways.... its always 'inner-world-politics' not 'inner or outer country' |
| 13:42.26 | Xaos | nice...I did NOT know that |
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| 13:42.45 | ieatlint | yep, we broke off from mexico just as texas did |
| 13:42.59 | ieatlint | but we did it after texas, and designed our flag in honour of our role model -- texas |
| 13:43.15 | Xaos | I wish we (those in the US) would go back to thinking of ourselves as citizens of our states (e.g. Texans) as opposed to Americans...we were better off back then |
| 13:43.17 | roh | one who thinks till a border has failed already. international markets, international information networks, people do not care about lines on maps anymore. they travel, they sell and buy, they work. the rest is unimportant |
| 13:43.52 | roh | Xaos nationalism gets you nowhere. i am german, believe me. i know. |
| 13:44.02 | ieatlint | not true |
| 13:44.06 | ieatlint | nationalism gets you far |
| 13:44.10 | Ainulindale | (nope) |
| 13:44.21 | ieatlint | californians are nationalistic |
| 13:44.23 | Xaos | exactly...I'm speaking about identifying with my State...not the Federation of States |
| 13:44.25 | Ainulindale | I quite agree with my fellow european ;-) |
| 13:44.25 | kdubois | ieatlint: it does not. small government for the win |
| 13:44.25 | ieatlint | and it helps us |
| 13:44.33 | ieatlint | we buy local, we support local |
| 13:44.33 | roh | ieatlint nope. because in the end any country needs stuff from somewhere else. |
| 13:44.46 | ieatlint | true |
| 13:44.48 | roh | ieatlint e.g. coffee. doesnt grow everywhere. that simple |
| 13:44.53 | kdubois | back to phones? |
| 13:44.54 | Xaos | roh: that's where the market comes in...not nationalism |
| 13:44.59 | Xaos | back to phones |
| 13:44.59 | ieatlint | coffee, fine |
| 13:45.08 | Xaos | which I'm getting from Taiwan ;-) |
| 13:45.09 | roh | ieatlint that is nothing which one needs to force. the rising oilprices take care already. |
| 13:45.10 | ieatlint | but name another produce that can't come from california :P |
| 13:45.17 | Ainulindale | roh: yay, coffee, here's an example I can understand :-) |
| 13:45.33 | Xaos | let's talk about these Taiwanese phones for a bit... |
| 13:45.37 | Ainulindale | It's a pity only an american company sells good green coffee :-) |
| 13:45.45 | roh | Xaos market means 'world'. any company who segments markets is wrong and will fail on the long run. |
| 13:45.45 | ieatlint | all i can say, is think of california as a country unto itself |
| 13:45.51 | Xaos | Are they shipping the whole lot today (for those of us that bought one)? |
| 13:45.53 | ieatlint | we're pretty decent then |
| 13:46.16 | Xaos | will they send shipping confirmation (and tracking numbers)? |
| 13:46.35 | ieatlint | i have a dozen produce markets within walking distance of me, all of whom get their produce from local farms |
| 13:46.48 | roh | i think there will be a confirmation with tracking number. atleast our shopsystem is prepared for that |
| 13:46.58 | ieatlint | the tomato craze here in the US due to contaminated crops... not an issue here |
| 13:47.01 | Ainulindale | roh: and regarding the resellers in Europe ? |
| 13:47.10 | Ainulindale | I was wondering when bearstech will received its lot |
| 13:47.11 | ieatlint | i walk to the market, get tomatoes direct from the farm |
| 13:47.31 | Dave | Good morning gentlemen, and Ainulindale. |
| 13:47.32 | roh | Ainulindale dunno. thats totally seperate. they have their own duty to talk woth customers. |
| 13:47.44 | Ainulindale | Dave: hey :-) |
| 13:47.47 | Dave | :p |
| 13:47.52 | roh | Ainulindale distributor means they handle everything with the customer themselves |
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| 13:47.59 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: 'food miles' is a meaningless concept and those that treat it as the sole metric should be stabbed. |
| 13:48.02 | Ainulindale | roh: Yep, I was just wondering if their bunch was sent |
| 13:48.14 | ieatlint | SpeedEvil, incorrect |
| 13:48.14 | Dave | Excellent! |
| 13:48.23 | ieatlint | gilroy, california |
| 13:48.28 | ieatlint | garlic capitol of the US |
| 13:48.47 | ieatlint | anyone who buys garlic in the US that isn't from gilroy be damned |
| 13:49.09 | ieatlint | food miles is meaningful |
| 13:49.14 | Dave | What? |
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| 13:49.22 | ieatlint | i've met the famers who grow my crops |
| 13:49.23 | Dave | How dare you insult the Garlic! |
| 13:49.34 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: you need to coneider total carbon emissions, if you're claiming food miles is a proxy for that - which it's not. Flowers grown in african and flown to the UK can produce less CO2 over lifetime than ones grown in europe - as the ones in europe need heated greenhouses. |
| 13:49.35 | Dave | garlicsmites ieatlint |
| 13:49.58 | ieatlint | i claim nothing with flowers |
| 13:50.03 | ieatlint | i claim with local crops |
| 13:50.20 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: local crops - not grown in heated conditions - it's a bit more level. |
| 13:50.24 | ieatlint | the local produce stands stock what is in season |
| 13:50.44 | ieatlint | exactly |
| 13:50.52 | ieatlint | my local produce stands sell california produce |
| 13:51.06 | ieatlint | if it's not in season, it's not available |
| 13:51.18 | ieatlint | the supermarket sells not-in-season produce, however |
| 13:51.42 | ieatlint | i am not an environmentalist |
| 13:51.52 | roh | ieatlint well.. lets wait and see.. i will bet that the bowing to the industry which allowed seeds to be copyrighted and genetic modified crops for being resistant to diverse chemical stuff will be a desaster in the end |
| 13:52.01 | HauDyrArb | ieatlint, do you grow your own crops *wink* *wink* |
| 13:52.07 | ieatlint | but i am proud of my local heritage, and that includes buying only from local farms |
| 13:52.17 | roh | monocultures always end in disaster in nature. it needs pluralism. same as opensource. |
| 13:52.23 | ieatlint | it would be illegal for me to grow my own crops :P |
| 13:52.46 | ieatlint | and i support genetically modified crops |
| 13:52.53 | ieatlint | i am not an organic freak |
| 13:53.02 | roh | the interresting point btw is that this stuff is mostly infertile and thus cannot generate new seeds |
| 13:53.12 | ieatlint | but yeah, i live in a US national park, where introducing foreign plants is a federal crime |
| 13:53.15 | roh | which is basically the 'lock-in' for the seed-companies |
| 13:54.21 | roh | ieatlint the point with genetic modifies crops is that its a 'totalitarian' decicion (which btw currently means that us growers cannot sell stuff to europe) |
| 13:54.24 | ieatlint | also means any crime i commit is federal offence |
| 13:54.24 | ace-- | they can also bring disease which wipes out an entire species :) |
| 13:54.49 | ace-- | just look at what happened to grapes |
| 13:54.53 | ieatlint | heh |
| 13:54.59 | roh | because you cannot make it happen that it doesnt 'spread' and cross its genetics with wildlife |
| 13:55.14 | roh | ace-- yap. |
| 13:55.42 | ieatlint | well, my whisky is catching up |
| 13:55.43 | roh | fucking around with nature in the goal of building monocultures is a recipe for disaster. |
| 13:56.36 | *** join/#openmoko opendeep (n=pradeep@61.16.248.242) |
| 13:57.07 | roh | btw.. do not get me wrong.. i wouldnt mind eating these crops.. (of course i want products to be labeled to have the option to choose), but i believe i do not want the seeds allowed anywhere in europe because it would make it impossible to get non-genetic modified food then. |
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| 13:59.25 | Dave | Are we still talking abot garlic? |
| 14:00.08 | Dave | what does federal offenses and eating crops have to do with one another? :P |
| 14:00.17 | Dave | Is there a conspiracy here I was unaware of? :) |
| 14:00.29 | Dave | KILLER CROPS!? |
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| 14:01.10 | *** join/#openmoko cherubiel (n=cherubie@unaffiliated/cherubiel) |
| 14:01.12 | Wander_w | KILLER CROPS ON YOUR OPENMOKO |
| 14:01.19 | Dave | o_o |
| 14:01.24 | Dave | ph33rs |
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| 14:02.05 | Wander_w | be a patriot and destroy your KILLER CROPS-bearing openmoko |
| 14:03.16 | HauDyrArb | arrgh Brains |
| 14:03.58 | Dave | BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSS |
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| 14:04.26 | Dave | Wander, wouldn't that be nice :) |
| 14:05.02 | roh | btw.. i can really recommentd to listen to the brazil OST while working on OM related stuff |
| 14:05.05 | Wander_w | dave: I'm afraid I can't do that, dave |
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| 14:05.16 | Dave | stabbity-stabs WAnder_w. |
| 14:05.33 | Dave | Actually, more aptly... |
| 14:05.40 | Dave | beats Wander_w with doc|home. |
| 14:05.49 | Wander_w | ouch |
| 14:05.51 | Dave | :D |
| 14:05.58 | Dave | Canucked! |
| 14:06.18 | Dave | Impersonating HAL should be considered a Federal Offense! |
| 14:06.20 | Dave | :P |
| 14:06.50 | Wander_w | only if the officer/judge is also called "Dave" |
| 14:07.02 | Dave | ~_~ |
| 14:07.03 | apt | STOP DOING THAT! |
| 14:07.12 | Dave | Unlikely... |
| 14:07.21 | Dave | FOR THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! |
| 14:07.34 | *** part/#openmoko cherubiel (n=cherubie@unaffiliated/cherubiel) |
| 14:07.36 | Wander_w | and ONE other.. |
| 14:07.41 | Wander_w | and ONE other |
| 14:07.45 | Dave | What one other!? |
| 14:07.45 | Wander_w | and ONE other... |
| 14:07.53 | Wander_w | the other guy called dave |
| 14:07.55 | Dave | draws his sword... |
| 14:08.15 | Wander_w | do you need a pencil to draw that? |
| 14:08.35 | piti | hi. I just created an #openmoko-fr channel, and, as I saw that #openmoko is registered as primary group, I thought about asking there for it. |
| 14:08.39 | Dave | runs Wander_w through for getting in the way. |
| 14:09.34 | Wander_w | gee thanks |
| 14:09.37 | Ainulindale | piti: bonne idée :-) |
| 14:09.45 | piti | Ainulindale, ;) |
| 14:09.49 | Dave | French -_-; |
| 14:10.42 | linuxxr | ran through by a nationalist what a drag |
| 14:11.08 | linuxxr | nationalism is the cause of war |
| 14:12.14 | linuxxr | its starts in junior high then gets worse in highschool then we practice it the rest of our stupid lives |
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| 14:18.48 | roh | linuxxr well.. sometimes i think children should learn to be happy with what they have... after all for the most of us, living in the '1st' world its more bickering about unimportant stuff than anybody who really would have had a reason to bicker because of missing food or drinking water could understand |
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| 14:25.25 | Dave | Let's see what other exciting apps I can install on the phone :D |
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| 14:25.57 | PBeck | ahoi |
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| 14:27.59 | trickie | anyone know where i can grab a ASU build to play with? Don't have net at home, but was hoping to grab one here at work to take home and flash... |
| 14:29.35 | dos1 | trickie: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/ |
| 14:29.42 | dos1 | ASU is qtopia-x11 |
| 14:30.02 | trickie | dos1: thanks |
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| 14:37.19 | Dave | Joerg! :) |
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| 14:38.16 | jOERG_rw | Dave: yeah, just found the time to have a look at irc, before I leave for brunch in sunset ;-) |
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| 14:40.26 | Dave | Yay :) |
| 14:40.31 | Dave | Nice to see you, Joerg. |
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| 14:41.28 | jOERG_rw | Dave: have a look at nickname-list! I'm already gone to have a meal ;-) |
| 14:41.42 | jOERG_rw | nice to meet ya too |
| 14:42.00 | jOERG_rw | leaves room |
| 14:44.26 | Ainulindale | hmmmmm coffee |
| 14:47.34 | igor321 | the gsoc dude made a video |
| 14:47.37 | igor321 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX50lXuJ28Q |
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| 14:50.39 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: I though you misunderstood the "fr" in the channel name :-) |
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| 14:54.42 | Wander_w | Ainulindale: I didn't misunderstand, I'm just bored |
| 14:55.06 | TAsn | damn, all the eu retailer raised prices:( |
| 14:55.07 | Wander_w | ...and reading a bit of french once in a while doesn't hurt |
| 14:55.19 | Wander_w | (just no-one seems to be talking there) |
| 14:55.33 | Wander_w | TAsn: damn, how much is it now? |
| 14:55.37 | TAsn | 350eu in two of the german ones, and 330 in pulster |
| 14:55.40 | Ainulindale | TAsn: raised ? |
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| 14:55.49 | TAsn | i think truebox is still 272 eu though. |
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| 14:55.52 | Ainulindale | TAsn: 328 on bearstech, never moved |
| 14:56.00 | TAsn | Wander_w, and that's without shipment! |
| 14:56.01 | Ainulindale | But there's french vat |
| 14:56.26 | TAsn | truebox is 272gbp inc in uk shipment* |
| 14:56.39 | *** join/#openmoko cratos (n=cratos@122.167.32.166) |
| 14:56.43 | TAsn | Ainulindale, im really thinking about getting it from the us ;\ |
| 14:56.48 | Wander_w | in british pounds... so like.. 400 euros? |
| 14:56.53 | TAsn | though i would really like the warrenty. |
| 14:57.02 | Ainulindale | TAsn: did you try group sales ? |
| 14:57.09 | Ainulindale | TAsn: in France there's a 1 year warranty |
| 14:57.15 | TAsn | Wander_w, 350 +- |
| 14:57.22 | Ainulindale | where do you live out of curiosity ? |
| 14:57.24 | TAsn | Ainulindale, in all of the eu there's 2 year iirc. |
| 14:57.30 | TAsn | Ainulindale, israel... |
| 14:57.37 | Ainulindale | Oh yeah :-/ |
| 14:57.50 | TAsn | Ainulindale, sucks to be me ;\ |
| 14:57.55 | Xaos | Wow...glad to be a Texan! 407 U.S. dollars = 259.417426 Euros |
| 14:58.02 | Ainulindale | If you weren't so far I could have bought one for you and brought it to you but Israel is a little bit too far |
| 14:58.03 | TAsn | we also have huge taxes here. |
| 14:58.12 | Ainulindale | Xaos: yep but you're getting the 850 one |
| 14:58.12 | Xaos | so I'm getting my Neo for 260 euros...cool |
| 14:58.13 | TAsn | Ainulindale, hehe :) where are you from? |
| 14:58.17 | Ainulindale | France |
| 14:58.31 | nadio | Xaos: 260EUR? :) |
| 14:58.35 | Xaos | it's a good thing I'm getting the 850...otherwise it wouldn't work as well here in the States |
| 14:58.35 | TAsn | Ainulindale, i have a french uncle |
| 14:58.40 | Xaos | ;-) |
| 14:58.40 | TAsn | im thinking about asking him. |
| 14:58.40 | nadio | that's acceptable prices |
| 14:58.49 | edistar_ | Xaos: noone wants the US FR anyway :P |
| 14:59.05 | Xaos | good...market forces drive the price down for those of us that do |
| 14:59.38 | *** join/#openmoko spdr (n=spdr@CBL217-132-249-151.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 15:00.01 | *** part/#openmoko cratos (n=cratos@122.167.32.166) |
| 15:00.17 | TAsn | Xaos, damn you ;( |
| 15:00.47 | *** join/#openmoko BDo (n=bdonnett@linagoraberri.pck.nerim.net) |
| 15:01.09 | SpeedEvil | An interesting figure from a vendor of a small embedded CPU board. (can run linux, very small) was that about 1% of his sales are to the USA. |
| 15:03.12 | Wander_w | then that company sucks at marketing |
| 15:03.35 | Ainulindale | TAsn: you should ask him then |
| 15:04.12 | TAsn | Ainulindale, i know. |
| 15:04.20 | TAsn | my only consideration |
| 15:04.42 | *** join/#openmoko cratos (n=cratos@unaffiliated/cratos) |
| 15:05.01 | TAsn | is whether to buy in in the us for 260Euro without a warranty or for 330 euro with one. |
| 15:05.03 | TAsn | ;\ |
| 15:05.24 | Ainulindale | TAsn: with bearstech you also have a sd card, the pouch and the headset |
| 15:05.36 | Ainulindale | which wasn't the pulster offer as I remember |
| 15:05.39 | Wander_w | TAsn: don't you need to pay import taxes over those 260 euro's? |
| 15:05.53 | kdubois | does the freerunner use alsa? |
| 15:05.58 | lindi- | afaik yes |
| 15:05.58 | TAsn | Wander_w, shh, don't tell the government :) |
| 15:06.21 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: not if it's considered as a gift |
| 15:06.23 | TAsn | Ainulindale, do i really need the pouch and the headset? |
| 15:06.24 | Wander_w | have them (company X in the USA) wrap it in gift paper :) |
| 15:06.28 | Ainulindale | TAsn: Your choice |
| 15:06.41 | Ainulindale | Wander_w: in France there's a tolerance for small items |
| 15:06.53 | Wander_w | TAsn: do you want scratches on your openmoko? |
| 15:06.55 | TAsn | and iirc pulster does ship with a 512 sd card. |
| 15:06.58 | Ainulindale | For example I'm used to buy cds in the USA |
| 15:07.00 | TAsn | Wander_w, no. |
| 15:07.00 | *** part/#openmoko xMDKx (n=mdkcore@nat/mandriva/x-bc06ec921c7ab9bb) |
| 15:07.05 | Ainulindale | I only pay high shipping |
| 15:07.07 | Wander_w | TAsn: then you need a pouch |
| 15:07.13 | TAsn | Wander_w, do you have a picture of it? |
| 15:07.14 | Ainulindale | But a 2 euros CDs when it's 20 in France... |
| 15:07.25 | igor321 | the shipping from openmoko.com is crazy expensive |
| 15:07.37 | igor321 | $170 for me |
| 15:07.39 | Wander_w | TAsn: depends on what "it" is |
| 15:07.45 | igor321 | that's _really_ crazy |
| 15:07.52 | TAsn | <Wander_w> TAsn: then you need a pouch |
| 15:07.56 | TAsn | igor321, i know. |
| 15:08.00 | Wander_w | TAsn: then no |
| 15:08.03 | TAsn | 100+ to here. |
| 15:08.28 | spydon | Have anyone tried the invisibleshield for openmoko? |
| 15:08.29 | TAsn | Ainulindale, i think sending it as a gift from the us is a good idea :) |
| 15:08.29 | SpeedEvil | igor321: did you order the openmoko-tombstone too? |
| 15:08.30 | SpeedEvil | igor321: for all your needs - a polished granite curved slab, with a distinctive loop at the top. |
| 15:08.49 | Ainulindale | TAsn: Depends on the version you want |
| 15:09.07 | TAsn | Ainulindale, i want the 900, i will wait for it. |
| 15:09.13 | Wander_w | SpeedEvil: do you get the source code with that? |
| 15:09.27 | igor321 | SpeedEvil: yes the shipping is crazy :) it's like $30-40 for USPS |
| 15:09.54 | igor321 | $170, that's... i don't know... a really impolite price :) |
| 15:09.58 | SpeedEvil | Wander_w: it's all hardware. No software. |
| 15:10.34 | Wander_w | SpeedEvil: ah... ok... what about the CAD drawings? |
| 15:10.46 | wurp2 | Hello everybody |
| 15:10.58 | Wander_w | hmmm.. I get this from the openmoko store: "Unfortunately there is no Shipping Rate available for your destination and/or weight of your cart" |
| 15:11.17 | igor321 | Wander_w: where do you live? |
| 15:11.27 | Wander_w | The Netherlands |
| 15:11.34 | igor321 | oh that's weird |
| 15:11.52 | Wander_w | ...or should I put in a real adres first? |
| 15:12.07 | igor321 | nah, i just put in my contry and town |
| 15:12.20 | igor321 | every thing else sadfgdsd |
| 15:12.55 | *** part/#openmoko Xaos (n=read@pool-71-170-53-17.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:13.06 | Wander_w | Now I've tried it with "Amsterdam" (because, you know, that is where *everybody* in the netherlands lives) and it's 83 dollar to ship |
| 15:13.19 | trickie | Wander_w: get one from a european supplier, then it doesn't cost the world for shipping |
| 15:13.26 | igor321 | oh, that ain't much |
| 15:14.32 | Wander_w | trickie: it is actually cheaper to import one from the USA |
| 15:14.48 | Wander_w | just 307 euro's with shipping included |
| 15:15.11 | igor321 | Wander_w: they propably slap all kinds of taxes on ya |
| 15:15.13 | trickie | hmmm, ok... except you will get charged tax yeah? |
| 15:15.29 | trickie | on 307 euros... you will pay at least 50 euro tax |
| 15:15.36 | Wander_w | I wonder how much they charge for a gift wrap? |
| 15:15.56 | igor321 | haha, that rarely works nowadays |
| 15:16.00 | igor321 | unfortunately |
| 15:16.31 | Wander_w | so, if i order it as a gift to my girlfriend... then its a gift right? |
| 15:16.55 | Wander_w | or is this just for gifts from USAians to europeans? |
| 15:17.17 | igor321 | i had many ebay gifts taxed :) |
| 15:17.23 | igor321 | but i wouldn't know |
| 15:17.49 | Ainulindale | Yep, it depends on <insert name of people responsible for custom taxes which name I forgot in english> |
| 15:17.50 | igor321 | i doubt the openmoko shop would write whose gift is it |
| 15:17.56 | Wander_w | customs |
| 15:18.04 | Ainulindale | I wasn't sure, but thanks :-) |
| 15:18.32 | igor321 | yeah boureaucracy sucks |
| 15:18.37 | igor321 | i had to get a permit even |
| 15:18.41 | igor321 | for the openmoko |
| 15:18.49 | Wander_w | permit? why? |
| 15:19.07 | trickie | if they in anyway declare the goods as a phone/electrical gadget i bet you will get charged... happens to me everytime in AMS |
| 15:19.11 | igor321 | cause it uses radiofrequencies :) |
| 15:19.39 | trickie | igor321: where was that? that you needed permits for? |
| 15:19.41 | Wander_w | igor321: yeah, that's the whole point of a telephone |
| 15:20.00 | igor321 | i realise that :) it's just that i live in croatia |
| 15:20.07 | igor321 | and small governments |
| 15:20.12 | igor321 | they like to control |
| 15:20.17 | igor321 | ya know? ;) |
| 15:20.37 | *** join/#openmoko zAMz1 (n=chatzill@mue-88-130-44-012.dsl.tropolys.de) |
| 15:20.51 | igor321 | so i had to get a permit to import a phone :) |
| 15:20.52 | Wander_w | don't all goverments like to control? |
| 15:20.59 | igor321 | yeah but the small ones |
| 15:21.12 | Ainulindale | Depends on the country you live in I guess :-) |
| 15:21.12 | igor321 | they are like the person with the smallest penis |
| 15:21.21 | igor321 | they have to ride the biggest car |
| 15:21.25 | Ainulindale | Argh |
| 15:21.34 | igor321 | i hope you get the analogy :) |
| 15:21.37 | Ainulindale | Some child is practicing the flute near me |
| 15:21.59 | Ainulindale | And I'm gentle when I say "practicing" |
| 15:22.07 | Ainulindale | Looks as if he's trying to kill a pig with it |
| 15:23.31 | SpeedEvil | Ainulindale: Don't be so ungracious. |
| 15:23.38 | SpeedEvil | Ainulindale: Unless you don't eat pork. |
| 15:23.48 | Ainulindale | If I had a microphone I would register it |
| 15:24.03 | Ainulindale | Because you know, you're on your balcony happily drinking coffee while discussing with people |
| 15:24.11 | Ainulindale | And next thing you know you're deaf |
| 15:24.29 | Ainulindale | (And I do eat pork. Pork is good for you.) |
| 15:24.36 | igor321 | "take your flute and shove it, kid" |
| 15:24.37 | Ainulindale | (In fact I think I will cut myself some slice of a nice french saucisson) |
| 15:25.39 | tunys | guys, i need a labcoat |
| 15:26.40 | SpeedEvil | tunys: http://www.sexypvclabcoats.com/ |
| 15:26.41 | Dave | Are you sure you don't require a different type of white coat? ;) |
| 15:26.54 | SpeedEvil | tunys: or just ebay. |
| 15:27.06 | tunys | What's sad is I actually clicked that link... |
| 15:27.23 | tunys | SpeedEvil, A used labcoat? with people's smeared organs on it??? |
| 15:27.31 | Ainulindale | Sounds nice |
| 15:27.53 | tunys | No, I'll smear organs on my labcoat MYSELF! |
| 15:29.58 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176120054.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:30.12 | tunys | I bet you're the only one with that quit message... |
| 15:30.40 | Sup3rkiddo | we use Looonix, no steenking virus can affect us |
| 15:31.06 | tunys | SSHs into Sup3rkiddo and forkbombs his kernel |
| 15:31.10 | Ainulindale | And we call ourselves loonatix = |
| 15:31.13 | Ainulindale | ! |
| 15:32.21 | *** part/#openmoko broonie (i=broonie@cassiel.sirena.org.uk) |
| 15:33.39 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst_ (n=Horst@e176120054.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 15:40.04 | SpeedEvil | That's a bit more extreme. |
| 15:40.06 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 15:42.13 | *** join/#openmoko WielkiTost (n=Wielki@dfx230.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
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| 15:49.54 | effbiai | ARM920T rev 0 (v4l) == ARMv4. rite? |
| 15:50.16 | *** part/#openmoko nadio (n=nobody@about/philosophy/nadio) |
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| 16:04.25 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@pD95FDED1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:04.25 | niki_ | ieatlint: The problem is solved for me. I got myself a new SIM card from my operator, and it works like a charm! |
| 16:05.36 | michael | is there something similar to /etc/timezone? or can i just create it like on the desktop |
| 16:05.45 | *** join/#openmoko cdm (n=cdm@pool-71-116-87-174.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 16:06.49 | Tanuva | wonders how one should enter a pin in asu/qtopia on a keyboard which only has letters... |
| 16:07.17 | *** join/#openmoko smhar (n=Home@193.188.117.67) |
| 16:07.25 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 16:07.47 | abraxa_ | michael: http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:all4mXYBT78J:www.rwhitby.net/blog/nslu2-linux/setting-the-openmoko-timezone.html+site:rwhitby.net&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=23 |
| 16:07.57 | dos1 | Tanuva: click some letter and drag on top |
| 16:08.04 | roh | Tanuva switch to numbers with a stroke 'up' |
| 16:08.14 | dos1 | Tanuva: this will show you numbers and special symbols |
| 16:08.19 | Tanuva | ah :) |
| 16:09.36 | *** join/#openmoko Xaos (n=read@pool-71-170-53-17.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:09.55 | michael | abraxa_: thanks |
| 16:11.21 | *** join/#openmoko joteiro (n=jpizarro@141.30.205.124) |
| 16:11.39 | Ainulindale | Hmpf, still can't resolve this setup.py issue |
| 16:12.07 | *** part/#openmoko joteiro (n=jpizarro@141.30.205.124) |
| 16:14.05 | Tig| | dos1, does that give you access to a delete key? that was something I could not find on the asu (mind you I did not find the numbers either) |
| 16:14.13 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@vpnb082.ugent.be) |
| 16:15.17 | dos1 | Tig|: delete key is when you drag some letter on left ;] |
| 16:15.37 | Tig| | blast I was looking ages for that :( |
| 16:16.09 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-24-130-118-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 16:17.59 | Ainulindale | Where should I look for zhone files ? |
| 16:18.23 | *** join/#openmoko jpizarrom (n=jpizarro@141.30.205.124) |
| 16:18.31 | *** join/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@HSI-KBW-085-216-121-052.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
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| 16:19.22 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e181166140.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:19.37 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, its a python script...so nano /usr/bin/zhone |
| 16:19.55 | Ainulindale | nope my problem is bitbake can't build zhone |
| 16:20.01 | Ainulindale | because it lacks some setup.py file |
| 16:20.10 | *** join/#openmoko piksi- (n=piksi@vipunen.hut.fi) |
| 16:20.11 | *** part/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e181166140.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:20.23 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, hmm, pastebin?....letme try rebuilding zhone |
| 16:20.58 | Ainulindale | wait for me to reset env variables |
| 16:22.39 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, builds fine here |
| 16:23.49 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net) |
| 16:24.05 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=DoG@196.218.41.31) |
| 16:24.12 | ecraven | hello ;) |
| 16:24.52 | ecraven | Just got myself a shiny new Freerunner! Beautiful, works nicely, but is slow as hell, and has no software.. How do I remedy these two minor problems? |
| 16:25.26 | abraxa_ | ecraven: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ |
| 16:25.35 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@211.84-49-138.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:25.45 | Ainulindale | http://pastebin.com/m6fbf5476 <- Sup3rkiddo |
| 16:26.13 | Tanuva | strange. I can ping the neo from my wlan, but I cant ping other wlan clients from the neo... |
| 16:26.15 | Ainulindale | So seemingly my sources lack the setup.py file |
| 16:26.21 | Ainulindale | Tanuva: routes ? |
| 16:26.32 | abraxa_ | Tanuva: IP forwarding enabled? |
| 16:26.35 | Tanuva | Ainulindale: only the one for eth0 exists.. |
| 16:26.52 | Tanuva | abraxa_: the neo is on the wlan, no forwarding nessecary... |
| 16:26.56 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Burzum@196.218.41.31) |
| 16:26.58 | Ainulindale | Tanuva: well then add routes for your wlan, no ? |
| 16:27.02 | Tanuva | it should access the router directly |
| 16:27.14 | Ainulindale | Isn't it on a different subnet ? |
| 16:27.23 | Tanuva | no |
| 16:27.32 | Tanuva | eth0 is on the same net as my other pc |
| 16:27.33 | roh | Tanuva tried with some other wifi client? |
| 16:27.54 | abraxa_ | Tanuva: Ah right, my bad. |
| 16:27.58 | *** join/#openmoko Xaos (n=read@pool-71-170-53-17.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:28.01 | Ainulindale | Sup3rkiddo: so, what do you think ? |
| 16:28.08 | roh | Tanuva there are accesspoints which can do client-isolation.. basically 'do not forward wifi to wifi'-feature |
| 16:28.14 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, just sec, my browsers are buggy |
| 16:28.27 | Tanuva | roh: but then my whole lan wouldnt work like it does :) |
| 16:28.31 | ecraven | Where do I find images for ASU/FSO? |
| 16:28.44 | roh | Tanuva ok.. so you are sure that works.. |
| 16:28.45 | Tanuva | ecraven: check the wiki for "Latest_Images" |
| 16:29.12 | *** join/#openmoko tanner (n=marc@179-127.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 16:29.13 | Tanuva | roh: aaahm... hmm.. just noticing.. give me a minute... |
| 16:29.20 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, ah, i see you are not using Makefile? |
| 16:29.35 | Ainulindale | Nope, I just did a simple bitbake fso-image |
| 16:29.41 | Ainulindale | with OE git repository |
| 16:29.45 | Ainulindale | err mtn repository |
| 16:29.54 | ecraven | Does the standard image support any wlan? Or do I need to flash a new image via usb? |
| 16:30.59 | Tanuva | roh: hm. route is correct. |
| 16:31.01 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, hmm, i am not aware really, since i havent use OE directly, you could cross-check your recipes with the download location....more often its a case of changing ${WORKDIR} a bit |
| 16:31.20 | Ainulindale | Sup3rkiddo: Hmmm, don't know how to do that I fear :-) |
| 16:31.49 | ecraven | Are the ASU snapshots usable in general? For phone and text? |
| 16:31.58 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, packages/freesmartphone/zhone_*.bb, (note that this may not be right) |
| 16:32.49 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E14814.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:32.57 | Ainulindale | Yep but it does seem to me as if a file was missing, but it gets the file correctly |
| 16:33.08 | *** join/#openmoko Xaos (n=read@pool-71-170-53-17.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:33.08 | Ainulindale | So I guessed that wasn't the problem |
| 16:33.20 | Ainulindale | The only file I have in the sources is a file named "zhone" though |
| 16:33.29 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, hmm, could you paste the ${WORKDIR} here, lets see if it matches with mine |
| 16:33.38 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, i often screw up with that...:P |
| 16:33.50 | Ainulindale | The workdir of my .bb ? |
| 16:33.50 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (n=jd@modemcable213.6-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 16:34.21 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, yeppity yep |
| 16:34.55 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, S = "${WORKDIR}/git" |
| 16:34.59 | Sup3rkiddo | ^^ |
| 16:35.20 | Ainulindale | same here |
| 16:37.20 | Ainulindale | where is it supposed to download sources ? |
| 16:37.30 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, under tmp/work/ |
| 16:37.40 | Ainulindale | first thing I checked, and just a file then |
| 16:38.34 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, under here?, build/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi |
| 16:38.49 | Sup3rkiddo | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:38.51 | Sup3rkiddo | ? |
| 16:38.53 | Tanuva | ah. ping does *neither* work to the neo nor from it. I accidentally tested it using the usb connection |
| 16:39.01 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net) |
| 16:39.23 | Ainulindale | Hmmm weirdly enough for me it's in tmp/work/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/zhone-0.0.0+gitr900105c27bd176fdca4e8f896b2c8221181491de-r6/ |
| 16:39.32 | *** join/#openmoko ronocdh_ (n=ronocdh@n2-54-126.dhcp.drexel.edu) |
| 16:39.45 | Ainulindale | (weirdly for "armv4t") |
| 16:39.53 | ecraven | Sorry to ask again, my connection dropped: Are the ASU snapshots usable in general? For phone and text? |
| 16:40.22 | *** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 16:41.03 | *** join/#openmoko tubastian (n=tubastia@pD954584B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 16:41.21 | Ainulindale | Sup3rkiddo: Did I misconfigured something ? |
| 16:42.19 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, i am not sure, run bitbake with the debug flag |
| 16:43.00 | Ainulindale | Sup3rkiddo: I meant, does the fact that my workdir is armv4t-angstrom-something is normal ? |
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| 16:44.12 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, i am not sure....running with debug flag for bitbake will give you some hints |
| 16:45.03 | Tig| | ecraven, I have found power issues are slightly worse on the ASU at the moment |
| 16:45.14 | Ainulindale | Sup3rkiddo: hmmmmm |
| 16:45.17 | Ainulindale | | + BUILD_SYS=x86_64-linux |
| 16:45.17 | Ainulindale | | + HOST_SYS=arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi |
| 16:45.26 | Ainulindale | Doesn't look quite normal to me, does it ? |
| 16:45.38 | Tig| | ecraven, the 2007.2 builds are still probably the best for phone and text |
| 16:45.58 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, letme run it here |
| 16:48.00 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, its the same for me as well |
| 16:48.05 | Tanuva | yay. my neo's gsm-enabled :) |
| 16:49.23 | Ainulindale | well then with the r9 I don't have the same files you have with the r4 |
| 16:49.34 | ronocdh | this question probably gets asks every 10 minutes from new people in here, but can I just buy an openmoko (correct gsm version) and pop a sim card in it? |
| 16:49.45 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, yeah, my tree is a bit behind |
| 16:49.47 | *** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:49.48 | ronocdh | from a local provider in my area. it is of course sold as an unlocked phone? |
| 16:50.17 | bobkare | ronocdh: yeah that should work. seems a few people have trouble with their sim-cards though |
| 16:50.23 | bobkare | of course there is no locking |
| 16:50.31 | Ainulindale | Sup3rkiddo: so I guess there's a problem with the latest version |
| 16:50.59 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, yeah should be, i didnt note the revision as i should, iirc, OM tree is a bit behind OE |
| 16:51.29 | Ainulindale | So what should I do ? |
| 16:51.54 | Sup3rkiddo | i have no idea :/...sorry...maybe some OE guru can help |
| 16:52.17 | Ainulindale | Mickeeeyyyy ! :-) |
| 16:52.18 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: You're still having build problems? |
| 16:52.30 | Ainulindale | wurp2: Yep |
| 16:52.47 | Ainulindale | Either I'm dumb or doomed |
| 16:52.49 | Ainulindale | http://pastebin.com/m6fbf5476 |
| 16:53.02 | ecraven | Tig|: are those the ones that come with the phone? |
| 16:53.05 | *** join/#openmoko Xaos (n=read@pool-71-170-53-17.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:53.10 | Ainulindale | That's what we get while trying to build latest I guess :-) |
| 16:53.33 | wurp2 | Is that if you just try a straight download & build? |
| 16:53.39 | wurp2 | No fiddling with conf parameters? |
| 16:53.41 | ronocdh | bobkare: thank you. i'm very eager to pick one of these up. |
| 16:53.48 | Ainulindale | wurp2: just setting the right machine |
| 16:54.20 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:54.23 | wurp2 | What is your machine? |
| 16:54.33 | Ainulindale | MACHINE="om-gta01" |
| 16:54.39 | *** join/#openmoko Renault (n=Renault@AToulon-151-1-15-29.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:54.39 | Ainulindale | and DISTRO="openmoko" |
| 16:54.41 | wurp2 | Didn't it default to that? |
| 16:54.43 | *** join/#openmoko te_acrid (n=acrid@p54B0EB93.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:54.46 | wurp2 | I though tmine defaulted to that |
| 16:54.55 | wurp2 | And I didn't fiddle with the DISTRO, either... |
| 16:54.56 | Tig| | ecraven, yes but there are slightly updated images available off the om.com website |
| 16:55.04 | Ainulindale | Default distro is angstrom |
| 16:55.12 | Ainulindale | I just put openmoko as adviced on some wiki article |
| 16:55.15 | wurp2 | Isn't that correct? |
| 16:55.24 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=kdean06@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 16:55.24 | Ainulindale | I suppose so |
| 16:55.29 | wurp2 | Hmm, I built zhone with the default distro |
| 16:55.32 | wurp2 | and machine |
| 16:55.53 | wurp2 | And the image it generated was a gta01 image |
| 16:55.54 | Ainulindale | I don't know the right person which could help me with that so... stuck again :-) |
| 16:56.03 | wurp2 | What I did: |
| 16:56.16 | wurp2 | Blew away *everything*. Clobber doesn't clobber everything. |
| 16:56.21 | wurp2 | wget the MokoMakefile |
| 16:56.29 | wurp2 | clean out all my environment variables |
| 16:56.30 | *** join/#openmoko cheng (n=cheng@xGagB214.WH1.tu-dresden.de) |
| 16:56.34 | Ainulindale | I'm building with bitbake wurp2 |
| 16:56.41 | Ainulindale | With openembedded mtn |
| 16:56.41 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: O |
| 16:56.50 | wurp2 | nm, I am of no use to you then :-) |
| 16:57.05 | Ainulindale | I was willing to try the latest |
| 16:57.18 | Ainulindale | In fact I did exactly what's written on the wiki FSO page |
| 16:57.26 | Ainulindale | (as I wrote that...)) |
| 16:57.33 | wurp2 | You will end up with all the bitbake directory structures if you use mokomakefile... |
| 16:57.43 | Ainulindale | Yep but it doesn't get the same versions |
| 16:57.44 | *** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@i59F73320.versanet.de) |
| 16:57.47 | wurp2 | MM just calls bitbake over & over afaict |
| 16:57.50 | wurp2 | Ah, OK |
| 16:57.52 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, you could hack the recipes for that |
| 16:58.07 | Sup3rkiddo | uses vala from svn which isnt in the OE mtn at all |
| 16:58.51 | Ainulindale | Can anybody give me his SRC_URI for zhone_git.bb ? |
| 16:59.40 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, SRC_URI = "${FREESMARTPHONE_GIT}/zhone.git;protocol=git;branch=master |
| 17:00.36 | Ainulindale | Same here |
| 17:01.02 | Ainulindale | and your FREESMARTPHONE_GIT is ? |
| 17:01.32 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, git.freesmartphone.org |
| 17:01.44 | Ainulindale | (where is it located by the way ?) |
| 17:02.40 | Ainulindale | org.openembedded.dev/conf/bitbake.conf:FREESMARTPHONE_GIT = "git://git.freesmartphone.org" |
| 17:02.45 | Ainulindale | Same thing here then |
| 17:04.05 | *** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net) |
| 17:05.58 | Ainulindale | Does bitbake updates the sources if they're not up to date ? |
| 17:06.02 | Ainulindale | -s |
| 17:06.06 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (n=fsteinel@pD9FBC39D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:07.07 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, i think it checks sane-srcrevs for packages from svn/cvs/git |
| 17:07.40 | Ainulindale | Meaning ? :-) |
| 17:08.25 | *** join/#openmoko alvarezp (n=alvarezp@201.139.193.235) |
| 17:09.13 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, its in openembedded/conf/distro/include |
| 17:09.51 | *** join/#openmoko tg_ (i=tg@digit.drk.hu) |
| 17:09.58 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, DISCLAIMER: i may be leading you to a wild goose chase which is often the case |
| 17:10.04 | Ainulindale | :-) |
| 17:10.13 | Ainulindale | seems there is an autorev for fso |
| 17:10.45 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, you could set zhone to ${AUTOREV} in sane-srcrev, not sure if its the right way though |
| 17:10.52 | Ainulindale | it's already there |
| 17:11.06 | _ferric | o hai! |
| 17:11.15 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, oh ok |
| 17:11.33 | Ainulindale | but then hmmm |
| 17:11.44 | Ainulindale | there's another entry in sane-srcrevs.inc |
| 17:11.48 | Ainulindale | which matches my version |
| 17:12.23 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, try changing to ${AUTOREV} there |
| 17:12.49 | wurp2 | Hi _ferric |
| 17:12.58 | *** part/#openmoko Princess^^ (n=Princess@209-252-134-170.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 17:13.03 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@host-84-220-76-76.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 17:13.12 | _ferric | sup wurp2? |
| 17:13.25 | *** join/#openmoko roudoudoudavid_ (n=roudoudo@gar31-1-82-224-8-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:13.26 | _ferric | any luck getting raw fso working with 2007.2? |
| 17:13.58 | wurp2 | No real progress yet |
| 17:14.03 | Sup3rkiddo | _ferric, you can make it work, but the apps should use it... |
| 17:14.24 | wurp2 | I hunted down where the window manager was set, and I've been researching how to mount the jffs2 files on my PC so I can diff 'em |
| 17:14.31 | _ferric | Sup3rkiddo: indeed. have you been following our little SHR thread? |
| 17:15.34 | *** join/#openmoko balrog-k1n (n=balrog@ckz152.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:15.38 | Sup3rkiddo | _ferric, yeah, i wasn't aware you are working on that |
| 17:16.05 | Ainulindale | Sup3rkiddo: worked |
| 17:16.09 | Ainulindale | autorev fell out with r6 |
| 17:16.14 | Sup3rkiddo | aha |
| 17:16.21 | Ainulindale | So you're my new god, do you mind ? |
| 17:16.41 | *** join/#openmoko Dave (n=dave@pool-141-150-11-209.mad.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:16.51 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, muhuhuhuhahaha |
| 17:16.51 | _ferric | Sup3rkiddo: damn that wiki page says so! |
| 17:17.12 | *** join/#openmoko McPeter (n=McPeter@unaffiliated/mcpeter) |
| 17:17.12 | _ferric | Sup3rkiddo: i'm not doing much yet though, i blew a capacitor on myu linux box's PSU so it's dead in the water. |
| 17:17.18 | *** part/#openmoko McPeter (n=McPeter@unaffiliated/mcpeter) |
| 17:17.20 | spydon | Does anyone know if it's still possible to use the random thingy on the wiki in any way, it had a button a few months ago? |
| 17:17.32 | _ferric | spydon: what random thingy? |
| 17:17.51 | Ainulindale | Sup3rkiddo: So I guess from your laugh my new divinity is evil ? :-) |
| 17:17.57 | Sup3rkiddo | _ferric, i could use some help with my soc project as well...i am doing a c (vala) implementation of odeviced |
| 17:17.59 | *** join/#openmoko milko_ (n=milko@3mhz.net) |
| 17:18.00 | Sup3rkiddo | Ainulindale, :P |
| 17:18.11 | spydon | _ferric, you could get random pages in the wiki |
| 17:18.25 | _ferric | Sup3rkiddo: yes, I've been reading your BS on devel@ |
| 17:18.35 | Dave | ferric :P |
| 17:18.36 | wurp2 | _ferric: His BS? |
| 17:18.38 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Burzum@196.218.41.31) |
| 17:18.39 | milko_ | Could someone give me link to the page on the Wiki describing how to configure u-boot with cu or minicom? |
| 17:18.40 | Sup3rkiddo | _ferric, *sniff* |
| 17:18.50 | _ferric | hugs Sup3rkiddo |
| 17:19.01 | _ferric | wurp2: a joke! i made a funny. |
| 17:19.20 | lindi- | wurp2: http://gentoo-wiki.com/Mounting_a_block_device_with_JFFS2 |
| 17:19.38 | wurp2 | _ferric: awesome |
| 17:19.54 | _ferric | heh. no, i think Sup3rkiddo is actually doing cool shit. |
| 17:19.56 | wurp2 | lindi-: It's not a block device, it's a file |
| 17:20.25 | Sup3rkiddo | yay |
| 17:20.26 | wurp2 | lindi-: The place where I left off, I had a script that would mount the file as a fake block device, but one of the binaries it needs, I didn't have |
| 17:20.27 | _ferric | Sup3rkiddo: in terms of background, though, the current implementation of odeviced is not in C? |
| 17:20.28 | lindi- | wurp2: they use losetup to make a file bloc device |
| 17:20.29 | Sup3rkiddo | shit is hot |
| 17:20.42 | wurp2 | lindi-: Was looking into how to get it ... blkmtd or something |
| 17:20.47 | Sup3rkiddo | _ferric, vala generates C, so its c code which runs in the end |
| 17:20.49 | *** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl) |
| 17:20.51 | SpeedEvil | Sup3rkiddo: if it is - get to a doctor! |
| 17:20.52 | lindi- | wurp2: mtdblock needs an mtd device |
| 17:21.12 | _ferric | Sup3rkiddo: aiee. what is vala? |
| 17:21.17 | Sup3rkiddo | _ferric, vala doesnt need any runtime dependencies |
| 17:21.23 | lindi- | wurp2: what binary do you lack? |
| 17:21.32 | wurp2 | blkmtd, I thought |
| 17:21.49 | Sup3rkiddo | _ferric, its sort of a language for GObject programming...heaven if you are used to GObject boilerplate in C |
| 17:21.51 | wurp2 | I'm not at home, so I can't do it right now, anyway |
| 17:22.25 | wurp2 | lindi-: Your instructions are better than the ones I was looking at, thanks! |
| 17:22.29 | wurp2 | Emailing to self at home. |
| 17:22.55 | _ferric | Sup3rkiddo: gotcha |
| 17:23.22 | Sup3rkiddo | _ferric, http://live.gnome.org/Vala |
| 17:24.31 | milko_ | How do you quote the value when using setenv? |
| 17:25.21 | Sup3rkiddo | _ferric, is there some sort of wiki page for SHC? |
| 17:26.06 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p57B29BF0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:26.13 | _ferric | Sup3rkiddo: yeah |
| 17:26.15 | _ferric | ~shr |
| 17:26.16 | apt | well, shr is Stable Hybrid Release, a combination of the FSO, some of the 2007.2 GTK software, and the ASU that provides all of the functionality of the 2007.2 software, but with the stability of the FSO. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Stable_Hybrid_Release |
| 17:26.35 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-152-1-90-83.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:27.22 | milko_ | I deleted my SD boot entry from uboot, how do I make it come back? |
| 17:28.40 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@81.214.36.95) |
| 17:28.42 | Tanuva | once I ifup'ed eth0 on gta02, it comes up, but there are some error messages related to unsupported operations on iocalls (http://rafb.net/p/095E5W14.html) anything to do about it? |
| 17:28.54 | Sup3rkiddo | _ferric, thanks |
| 17:29.09 | _ferric | kein problem! |
| 17:29.24 | lindi- | wurp2: it works? good! |
| 17:30.26 | Tig| | Tanuva, you get those anyway, wifi will still work with them# |
| 17:33.27 | Sup3rkiddo | SpeedEvil, must be those spices |
| 17:33.38 | ecraven | does the wireless networking work on the standard image? |
| 17:33.42 | mjr | spice melange |
| 17:33.46 | ecraven | I can't seem to associate with an access point |
| 17:34.13 | Tanuva | Tig|: then my mistake must be somewhere else - the neo is associated, but I cant ping it nor ping from it |
| 17:34.33 | Tig| | Tanuva, are you getting an IP address from it? |
| 17:35.11 | Tanuva | no, it has a static address, theres no dns running on my router |
| 17:36.18 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@cpe-90-157-213-131.dynamic.amis.net) |
| 17:37.31 | nullpuppy | so, from the post on the community list, doesn't look like phones will ship until tomorrow ;( |
| 17:37.46 | *** join/#openmoko nezticle (n=nezticle@208.104.129.127) |
| 17:38.02 | nullpuppy | at least for those of us in the US |
| 17:39.13 | Dave | The gps must flow! |
| 17:39.20 | Dave | that, and the wifi :p |
| 17:39.43 | nullpuppy | hehe |
| 17:39.52 | kdubois | nullpuppy: thats unfortunate... :( |
| 17:40.05 | nullpuppy | kdubois: yup :( |
| 17:40.12 | Xaos | nullpuppy: DOH! and UPS ground is 4 days to me from Fremont CA, that means another lonely weekend |
| 17:40.34 | nullpuppy | Xaos: :( |
| 17:40.39 | nullpuppy | you might get it friday |
| 17:40.43 | kdubois | Xaos: i may in the same boat as you, ca->mi is like 3 or 4 days |
| 17:40.55 | nullpuppy | i'm hoping for thursday (was hopping for wednesday) |
| 17:41.00 | Xaos | UPS has a page that will calculate it for you |
| 17:41.17 | Tanuva | Dave: if it just would do so... |
| 17:41.27 | nullpuppy | Our warehouse in Fremont, CA will be back to work on Monday (7/7) and start shipping process. Your order number should be ready to ship by Tuesday. Thanks. <-- thats from the list |
| 17:41.45 | nullpuppy | dude that got that was order 1562 |
| 17:41.57 | Dave | Yes, if only :( |
| 17:41.59 | Xaos | hmmm...wonder if my order (1220) will be out sooner... |
| 17:42.22 | Dave | Are we starting a lottery now? :P |
| 17:42.28 | Dave | Drawing numbers? :p |
| 17:42.42 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl (n=bumbl@91-113-56-22.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 17:43.01 | wurp2 | lindi-: I dunno if it works - I'm at work, and I can't check until I get home |
| 17:43.35 | *** join/#openmoko i_b0t (n=ibot@hmbg-4dbe2529.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 17:43.44 | kdubois | its estimate is saturday, i think ups does saturday deliveries? |
| 17:44.00 | Xaos | UPS ground won't deliver on Sat. sorry |
| 17:44.29 | Xaos | did you get a notice with a tracking notice? I've received nothing but an order confirmation when I placed the order |
| 17:44.53 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrodf (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26) |
| 17:45.16 | nezticle | Everytime i try and order from the openmoko store i just get a gateway error from hitrustpay, what is the deal with that |
| 17:46.31 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 17:47.28 | nullpuppy | Xaos: it sounds like we'll get tracking numbers when they ship |
| 17:47.39 | nullpuppy | if we're lucky, today, likely tomorrow |
| 17:47.39 | *** join/#openmoko LionKMP (n=lion@catv-5985b8e7.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 17:47.59 | Tanuva | nezticle: call your bank, they need to unlock the transfer |
| 17:49.07 | Xaos | nullpuppy: that's what I was hoping. I guess I'm just being pesty 'cause I've been waiting so long for this to actually ship. |
| 17:49.22 | nullpuppy | Xaos: hehe, yeah, no worries, i'm just as anxious |
| 17:49.32 | nullpuppy | brb |
| 17:49.44 | *** join/#openmoko jakob__ (i=jakob@pureenergy.cc) |
| 17:51.19 | wurp2 | Anyone know if git will update files properly if you switch repos? |
| 17:51.39 | lindi- | wurp2: ok |
| 17:53.35 | kelvie_ | wurp2: what do you mean? |
| 17:54.37 | *** join/#openmoko Varox-DT (n=Varox@p4FD45FF7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:55.40 | *** join/#openmoko spdr (n=spdr@CBL217-132-249-151.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 17:56.55 | wurp2 | kelvie_: Well, in this specific instance I'm running MokoMakefile with one OM_GIT_BRANCH value, then I change it, and run again |
| 17:56.56 | kelvie_ | oh that depends on what the Makefile does |
| 17:56.56 | wurp2 | But presumably what's happening behind the scenes is a git pull, then switching to another repo, then another git pull |
| 17:56.56 | kelvie_ | ah by repo you mean a git remote |
| 17:56.57 | Dave | stupid git. |
| 17:57.01 | wurp2 | I haven't used git directly at all (but I've used CVS & SVN extensively, and played with darcs and arch, which are similar) |
| 17:57.08 | wurp2 | Dave: heh |
| 17:57.18 | kelvie_ | hehe.. git has its own vocabulary |
| 17:57.23 | ecraven | will the ASU be faster than the system delivered with the freerunner? |
| 17:57.24 | Dave | Unfortunately. |
| 17:57.31 | wurp2 | kelvie_: yeah, to me that's the repository... but it's a good point that really your local is a repository, too |
| 17:57.32 | evolux | ok, i was not able to resolve my problem with curl openssl 3 |
| 17:57.33 | *** join/#openmoko i_b0t (n=ibot@hmbg-4dbe2529.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 17:57.39 | evolux | here is the error output: http://rafb.net/p/s9nPfL46.html |
| 17:57.43 | Dave | high-fives wurp |
| 17:57.46 | wurp2 | I will try to use the proper terminology as I learn it :-) |
| 17:57.54 | Dave | I am in a similar boat. |
| 17:57.54 | evolux | can someone help me? ;-) |
| 17:58.04 | kelvie_ | it will be updated if it does do that |
| 17:58.07 | kelvie_ | a checkout + pull |
| 17:58.07 | Ainulindale | Sup3rkiddo: fully working FSO image o/ |
| 17:58.16 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-088-065-110-004.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:59.10 | wurp2 | kelvie_: OK, then I will assume that MokoMakefile does the right things to get the proper file contents when the branch (remote) changes |
| 17:59.56 | wurp2 | Dave: The "learning git" boat? |
| 18:00.48 | kelvie_ | I wasn't badly corrupted by SVN yet when I started to learn Git, so it was pretty smooth for me :) |
| 18:01.15 | *** join/#openmoko emilis_info (n=emilis@clt-84-32-58-67.vdnet.lt) |
| 18:01.46 | evolux | actually, curl is linked against openssl that is distributed via mokomakefile, isn't it? |
| 18:02.15 | nezticle | thank you Tanuva it was my bank |
| 18:02.55 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@16.106.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 18:04.10 | wurp2 | kelvie_: Well, darcs works the same way, so I have exposure |
| 18:04.20 | wurp2 | But it has been low key |
| 18:04.25 | lindi- | i booted openmoko using qemu by following http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Using_MokoMakefile -- i now see http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko1.png but neither the Q or the start symbols seem to react to clicks |
| 18:04.42 | Dave | wurp, no, the I'm used to cvs/svn for many years, along with the more optional, fuck this git bullshit, leave me alone, I understand how things work :) |
| 18:04.47 | lindi- | how do i start an application? |
| 18:05.12 | Dave | just because you're not entirely down with the 'lingo' ;) |
| 18:05.18 | lindi- | wurp2: i like darcs too :) |
| 18:05.56 | Dave | :] |
| 18:06.49 | wurp2 | Dave: well, CVS & SVN don't let you have hierarchical repositories |
| 18:06.57 | *** join/#openmoko apol (i=apol@62.57.50.245.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 18:07.07 | wurp2 | Dave: which is nice, 'cause it lets you have good revision controlled forks w/o any permissions from the primary devs |
| 18:07.12 | *** join/#openmoko ascot (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 18:07.14 | wurp2 | and similar niceties |
| 18:07.32 | *** join/#openmoko hari (n=hklein@i59F774DA.versanet.de) |
| 18:11.33 | ecraven | if i want to put a kernel on the sd card, what exactly should its name be? /boot/uImage.bin? /boot/uImage? |
| 18:11.35 | Dave | As far as I know, sure they do. |
| 18:12.01 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 18:12.03 | Dave | It's always just a matter of how much sanity you are willing to sacrifice, in selecting which path you will proceed down :) |
| 18:12.21 | Dave | but, to each their own (and their own subsequent demise). |
| 18:12.36 | Dave | That's what I say, anyway :) |
| 18:13.18 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-144-137-197-243.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 18:14.18 | Tanuva | the qtopia-db prevents me from unmounting the sd card (to repartition it). is it possible to disable some service that accesses the db? |
| 18:15.35 | Dave | hot |
| 18:15.42 | Xaos | lindi: I can't get farther than that either. |
| 18:16.10 | lindi- | Xaos: i managed to get to main menu once |
| 18:16.13 | Dave | Not to change the subject, but why are more and more people getting all ga-ga over the new qtopia-openmoko hybrid? |
| 18:16.22 | Xaos | lindi: How? |
| 18:16.22 | lindi- | Xaos: my guess is that the part that tries to talk to gsm hangs |
| 18:16.27 | lindi- | Xaos: by luck :) |
| 18:16.32 | Dave | It's really a piece of crap, and that isn't subjective. :P |
| 18:16.32 | Xaos | lindi: LOL |
| 18:16.36 | lindi- | Xaos: i am recompiling with --enable-phonesim |
| 18:16.49 | Dave | lindi, I am not so sure I would call that luck ;) |
| 18:17.40 | Dave | ./configure --with-obedience |
| 18:17.42 | Dave | :P |
| 18:17.51 | Dave | make it do what you want! |
| 18:18.22 | nullpuppy | Dave: isn't qtopia the 'wave of the future' so to speak thouhg? |
| 18:18.36 | wurp2 | Dave: Is someone getting ga ga over it? |
| 18:18.54 | *** join/#openmoko tg (i=tg@x-net.hu) |
| 18:18.55 | wurp2 | Dave: I thought everyone more or less hated it, except that it enables new UI toolkits |
| 18:20.14 | lindi- | Dave: it doesn't compile with --enable-phonesim |
| 18:20.38 | lindi- | Dave: it has include for qt3 but wants qmetatype.h that is only in qt4 afaik |
| 18:21.31 | lpotter | ASU is not qtopia |
| 18:21.56 | wurp2 | Yeah |
| 18:22.15 | wurp2 | but the unstable qtopia port on top of the unstable asu is not happy making |
| 18:22.42 | lindi- | wurp2: asu? |
| 18:23.13 | *** join/#openmoko Subfusc (n=Subfusc@kri3-1x-dhcp375.studby.uio.no) |
| 18:23.38 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * r398fcd5000c4 10/mickeydbus/mdbus: add mdbus, a convenient dbus introspection and calling utility |
| 18:23.38 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * r6d57f66c9d4e 10/mickeydbus/ (TODO mdbus): mdbus version 0.9 |
| 18:23.39 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * rfa2cba50eea3 10/mickeydbus/mdbus: mdbus: add simple method calling (without parameters) |
| 18:24.03 | Tig| | lindi-, this explains it best: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ |
| 18:24.30 | Tig| | that link could really do with going in the topic :) |
| 18:25.19 | lindi- | Tig|: uh oh, any idea which of those i am running? |
| 18:25.42 | *** join/#openmoko doc|work (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 18:25.54 | lindi- | it says "qtopia" when it starts |
| 18:26.21 | doc|work | grrr, why is it, that in this day and age, it takes 3 days to transfer money to a credit card? |
| 18:26.25 | Tig| | lindi-, the one shipping with the freerunners is gtk (2007.2) the ASU is qtopia based |
| 18:26.41 | lindi- | Tig|: aha, so i should figure out how to make my qemu use gtk |
| 18:28.08 | Tig| | lindi-, if you attempting to emulate what the phones are shipping with now then yes gtk, in August (hopefully) people will start moving to the ASU (August software update) which will use the qtopia apps by default but will still be able to run the gtk apps if you want to |
| 18:28.13 | *** join/#openmoko i_b0t1 (n=ibot@hmbg-4dba15b4.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 18:28.46 | lindi- | Tig|: i should modify openmoko/env to do that? |
| 18:28.49 | Tig| | in the long run the interface work and apps from the ASU will be carried over onto the FSO |
| 18:28.54 | _newbie3 | Tig|: why not add the link to the topic then? |
| 18:29.47 | Tig| | _newbie3, because I am used to channels where the ops fiddle with the topic instead :) |
| 18:30.23 | Tig| | lindi-, no idea on that bit as I have not used the qemu stuff |
| 18:30.32 | wurp2 | lindi-: April Software Update |
| 18:30.37 | _newbie3 | chanserv won't do it. See it like a wiki ;). At least the ops didn't set the topic changes restricted flag... |
| 18:30.54 | Tig| | :) |
| 18:31.03 | wurp2 | Tig|: I don't think they'll be carried into FSO |
| 18:31.14 | wurp2 | I thought FSO was supposed to stay "pure" and low-level |
| 18:31.19 | Tig| | will sort it in a min just debugging my wireless |
| 18:31.34 | wurp2 | I thought FSO was to be merged into ASU, or some future OM release |
| 18:31.35 | Tig| | wurp2, ah sorry the OM will become based on the FSO |
| 18:31.58 | wurp2 | Tig|: np, just making sure that I hadn't missed an update |
| 18:32.55 | _newbie3 | i think the FSO image is a test bed, but the FSO deamons should some time in the future go into the main image... |
| 18:33.15 | Tig| | nope just my crappy way of explaining it :) I used FSO because it will be what OM is based on :) and on that day there will be a lot less confusion and a lot of rejoicing :) |
| 18:33.39 | lindi- | Tig|: http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/uImage-2.6.24+git20080507-r0-om-gta02.bin? |
| 18:33.50 | lindi- | Tig|: is that the one on the shipped phone? |
| 18:34.07 | Tig| | well no as that is from scardycat's buildhost |
| 18:34.21 | Tig| | hang on will find the shipping images |
| 18:35.07 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g228008186.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:35.27 | lindi- | Tig|: thanks |
| 18:35.38 | Tig| | right you will not be able to run the exact shipping images on qemu as i understand it as it will only emulate the gta01 |
| 18:35.50 | Tig| | but the shipping images are these ones : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ |
| 18:36.25 | lindi- | Tig|: there are patches to support gta02 though? |
| 18:36.55 | lindi- | Tig|: where's the bootloader image? |
| 18:37.02 | Tig| | ah if so then it might: you will probably better with these though : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080706/ |
| 18:37.07 | *** join/#openmoko m4r3k (n=m4r3k@opensuse/member/m4r3k) |
| 18:37.37 | nullpuppy | there are patches to get pseudo gta02 .... you can use the fr rootfs images, but you have to use a special kernel |
| 18:37.39 | Tig| | which are the gta01 daily builds, most people I know with freerunners have flashed to a later daily build anyway |
| 18:38.18 | Tig| | in qemu I doubt you would see much difference between a gta01 and 02 image, a couple of device names are different but that is about it |
| 18:38.19 | harzi | C7`: ummen? |
| 18:38.21 | lindi- | Tig|: gta01? but how can freerunner users have them? |
| 18:38.40 | Tig| | lindi-, because there is another tree on the buildhost for freerunners |
| 18:39.40 | Tig| | the gta01 and gta02 images from the buildhost are as far as I can tell feature identical just with differing configs for the hardware |
| 18:39.57 | Tig| | so the differences are config only not functions |
| 18:40.00 | ecraven | how do i get mkfs.vfat onto my freerunner? |
| 18:40.02 | lindi- | Tig|: ok |
| 18:40.15 | Ainulindale | ecraven: vfat ? what for ? |
| 18:40.20 | ecraven | booting from sd |
| 18:40.26 | ecraven | the first partition needs to be vfat :( |
| 18:40.31 | Ainulindale | Oh |
| 18:40.40 | ecraven | i tried, but ext2 doesn't work |
| 18:40.46 | Ainulindale | ext3 ? |
| 18:40.47 | nullpuppy | in the dailyb snapshots, whats the difference between the openmoko-devel and openmoko-qtopia images? |
| 18:40.55 | ecraven | Ainulindale: nope |
| 18:40.57 | Ainulindale | nullpuppy: qtopia is asu |
| 18:41.03 | nullpuppy | ah ha, alright |
| 18:41.05 | Tig| | nullpuppy, devel is gtk |
| 18:41.38 | lindi- | Tig|: that daily dir has two rootfs images, "devel" and "qtopia-x11" -- which one would match what is being shipped most? |
| 18:41.41 | nullpuppy | ok, awesome. |
| 18:41.55 | Tig| | lindi-, devel :) |
| 18:41.57 | Ainulindale | lindi-: devel |
| 18:42.22 | Tig| | Ainulindale, I wish they had named those files differently :) |
| 18:42.49 | Ainulindale | Yep but I wish there wasn't three different images :-) |
| 18:42.53 | Ainulindale | It would be easier |
| 18:42.57 | Tig| | there is that too :( |
| 18:42.58 | nullpuppy | ok, now what is actually needed to flash the qemu image? do i just run flash.sh with a single image in images/openmoko? |
| 18:43.14 | Ainulindale | nullpuppy: there a env file in qemu/openmoko |
| 18:43.23 | Ainulindale | which has some variables to find the images |
| 18:43.33 | nullpuppy | hmm, alright |
| 18:43.34 | Ainulindale | s/there/there's/ |
| 18:43.36 | Tig| | Ainulindale, they ought to call the merged ASU and FSO image Highlander :) |
| 18:43.47 | Tig| | because eventually there will... |
| 18:43.55 | Ainulindale | Tig|: you mean SHR ? :-) |
| 18:43.59 | nullpuppy | is that in build/qemu or build/qemu/openmoko |
| 18:44.00 | nullpuppy | ? |
| 18:44.09 | Ainulindale | nullpuppy: build/qemu/openmoko/env |
| 18:44.21 | nullpuppy | ahh, i see now |
| 18:44.32 | lindi- | Tig|: any idea which kernel should i use? i see two options: uImage-2.6.24+git17+9af61cea8871d2303e06c5e71a121245d5fdc283-r0-om-gta01.bin uImage-om-gta01-latest.bin |
| 18:44.43 | *** part/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@HSI-KBW-085-216-121-052.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 18:44.43 | Tig| | Ainulindale, oh don't go there :) |
| 18:44.50 | Tig| | lindi-, they are the same :) |
| 18:44.54 | Ainulindale | Tig|: I'm already there |
| 18:44.54 | lindi- | rright |
| 18:45.36 | Tig| | lindi-, they just have different names, the latest is so that automated scripts will always be able to find it and the other is names what is actually in it :) |
| 18:45.45 | *** join/#openmoko zouzou (n=zouzou@unaffiliated/zouzou) |
| 18:45.56 | nullpuppy | hmm, based on what i see in env... does it just flash with the newest in the dir, or will multiple files cause problems? |
| 18:46.10 | Ainulindale | multiple files will do |
| 18:46.21 | Tig| | Ainulindale, I think it is a damn good idea atm but I don't think we need more confusion on here atm :) |
| 18:46.30 | nullpuppy | alright |
| 18:47.11 | Ainulindale | Tig|: yep |
| 18:48.10 | Tig| | Ainulindale, again it is another stopgap though :) |
| 18:48.15 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r9fb44e6aac6b 10/packages/efl1/ (etk/initial_viewport.patch etk_cvs.bb): [efl] etk didn't initial scrolled_view correctly. |
| 18:48.16 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 18:48.21 | Tig| | but it would be very handy right now :) |
| 18:48.38 | Ainulindale | Tig|: stopgap ? |
| 18:48.39 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@72-62-134-179.area2.spcsdns.net) |
| 18:49.02 | Tig| | I did try flashing the fso kernel on with the 2007.2 rootfs but alas it died on resume :( |
| 18:49.27 | Tig| | Ainulindale, well it is another fix until everything is unified agian |
| 18:49.45 | Ainulindale | There's a lot of work to do yep |
| 18:50.20 | m4r3k | It is not posible to buy GSM900 via webshop? why? |
| 18:50.46 | kelvie_ | hmm.. do you get a shipping notification when the fr ships? |
| 18:51.00 | nullpuppy | kelvie_: from what i read in the community list, yes. |
| 18:51.02 | kelvie_ | ah |
| 18:51.13 | nullpuppy | will likely ship tomorrow from the sounds fo it. |
| 18:51.13 | Tig| | m4r3k, I don't think they have arrived from the factory yet to the webshop |
| 18:52.40 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm2 (n=Mathias@vpnc220.ugent.be) |
| 18:53.12 | *** join/#openmoko alvarezp (n=alvarezp@201.139.193.235) |
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| 18:54.19 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07python-helpers * r5cf2a90d8660 10/mickeydbus/ (TODO mdbus): mdbus: method calling with arbitrary parameters seems to work now |
| 18:55.13 | Xaos | Ainulindale: OK, I'm in the ENV file, what would be a good thing to replace with what in order to get closer to what I'm going to have when my FR ships? |
| 18:55.29 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e181171007.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:55.39 | *** join/#openmoko thomasgruebler (n=thomasgr@85-124-167-249.work.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 18:55.45 | Ainulindale | Errr first you have to modify your local.conf in order to build the right image |
| 18:56.01 | Ainulindale | (MACHINE="om-gta02") |
| 18:56.20 | Ainulindale | Then you'll have to modify qemu parameters to run with the right machine (gta02fake) |
| 18:56.39 | Ainulindale | Then you'll have to modify the wildcards to point at the image you built |
| 18:56.49 | kdubois | this is going to be a dumb question, but how much setting up does the freerunner take out of the box in order to be able to make a call? |
| 18:56.54 | Ainulindale | But I think I'm not the right person to answer this kind of questions :-) |
| 18:57.29 | mjr | kdubois, pretty much none, but it's not quite the embodiment of realibility |
| 18:57.29 | Tig| | kdubois, well you have to put a sim in it, and that is about it |
| 18:57.54 | Tig| | kdubois you will have a poor battery life too |
| 18:57.55 | kdubois | oh, thats cool. i'm not opposed to setting things up, its just nice to work out of the box :D |
| 18:57.57 | Xaos | Thanks Ainulindale...I'll see what I can do from there...I really want to start "playing" with my phone before it gets here ;-) seeing what apps are available, etc. |
| 18:58.32 | kdubois | Tig|: my last smartphone had about 10 minutes of call time, as long as its better than that, ill be happy :P |
| 18:58.58 | mjr | it's better than that |
| 18:58.59 | Tig| | well it has that :) |
| 18:59.04 | doc|work | marginally ;) |
| 18:59.07 | doc|work | runs |
| 18:59.07 | Xaos | I've been using a Nokia 770 for a while and it's pretty cool. Does anyone know if any "other" apps have been ported yet? Like gnumeric, maemo mapper (or similar), fbreader, etc.? |
| 18:59.18 | doc|work | 6 hours iirc? it's just standby time that's not great |
| 18:59.24 | Tig| | actually I have been getting much better results recently |
| 18:59.32 | doc|work | Xaos: nope, not even close :/ |
| 18:59.44 | Xaos | doc|work: I figured... ;-) |
| 18:59.46 | Tig| | the FSO images are reporting 17 / 21 hours atm |
| 19:00.01 | nullpuppy | grrm still trying to use the wrong damn image... hmm |
| 19:00.03 | Tig| | as in a confirmed wake up after that long |
| 19:00.55 | Tig| | so it is getting better, I have also noticed the recent snapshots are getting better too, nothing massive just a bit better :) |
| 19:01.46 | *** join/#openmoko [Kame2] (n=manuel@port-92-196-47-6.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 19:02.28 | mjr | Xaos, TangoGPS is a gps thingy made with the Neos in mind |
| 19:02.40 | Xaos | Ainulindale: without modifying to the gta02, what would the recommendation be for the env file to get a working emulation and how would I "flash" the qemu? |
| 19:02.51 | Ainulindale | Tig|: you mean 17/21 of total battery time ? |
| 19:03.01 | Xaos | mgr: thanks...I'll take a look |
| 19:03.02 | lindi- | Xaos: you are trying to use qemu too? |
| 19:03.12 | Xaos | lindi: yep...same luck as you |
| 19:03.24 | Ainulindale | Xaos: the standard env file is good without switching to gta02 |
| 19:03.27 | lindi- | Xaos: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Using_MokoMakefile just calls flash.sh |
| 19:03.38 | lindi- | Ainulindale: with qemu? |
| 19:03.52 | Ainulindale | yep |
| 19:03.59 | *** join/#openmoko Sylar91 (n=Sylar91@83.224.206.29) |
| 19:04.00 | lindi- | Ainulindale: i couldn't figure out how to run any applications |
| 19:04.09 | Sylar91 | hi everybody |
| 19:04.17 | lindi- | Ainulindale: what should i do with http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko1.png? |
| 19:04.21 | Sylar91 | somebody knows mobileunix? |
| 19:04.41 | Ainulindale | lindi-: what would you do ? |
| 19:04.45 | *** join/#openmoko unknown_lamer (n=clinton@cpe-071-065-238-103.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 19:04.55 | lindi- | Ainulindale: i'd like to start any application, a game for example :) |
| 19:05.10 | Ainulindale | and the touchscreen doesn't work ? |
| 19:05.18 | lindi- | Ainulindale: the Q and start buttons don't seem to start anything although they change color to white when i push them |
| 19:05.44 | Ainulindale | lindi-: you used qtopia image ? |
| 19:05.56 | lindi- | Ainulindale: i used default openmoko/env |
| 19:06.09 | lindi- | Ainulindale: which seems to be qtopia i guess |
| 19:06.16 | Ainulindale | Nope |
| 19:06.24 | Ainulindale | I don't recognize this interface |
| 19:06.25 | *** part/#openmoko Sylar91 (n=Sylar91@83.224.206.29) |
| 19:06.57 | *** join/#openmoko tschaka (n=tschaka@p5B0EAAAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:07.31 | lindi- | Ainulindale: does your env read rootfs_wildcard="Open?oko-openmoko-*image*-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2"? |
| 19:08.00 | Ainulindale | I modified it but it was that |
| 19:08.08 | lindi- | Ainulindale: with that default i got qtopia |
| 19:08.14 | Ainulindale | Nope |
| 19:08.21 | Ainulindale | You got qtopia because you did get qtopia |
| 19:08.27 | lindi- | hmm? ;) |
| 19:08.33 | Tig| | Ainulindale, lindi- that is the pure qtopia interface not the ASU which is qtopia ported to X with other bits |
| 19:08.45 | Ainulindale | There's a variable I think to get a specific image |
| 19:08.48 | Ainulindale | I can't remember which |
| 19:09.11 | lindi- | Ainulindale: something not in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Using_MokoMakefile? |
| 19:09.11 | Xaos | the only change I made was to edit the Makefile and change to: OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.asu.dev |
| 19:09.25 | Ainulindale | lindi-: it's on your Makefile yes |
| 19:09.26 | Xaos | I get a similar interface to lindi |
| 19:09.35 | Ainulindale | grep OM_GIT_BRANCH |
| 19:09.40 | lindi- | rootfs_wildcard="Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080706-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2" |
| 19:09.46 | lindi- | seems to show me different interface |
| 19:09.48 | Ainulindale | For yours it seems to be org.openembedded.asu |
| 19:09.52 | Xaos | OM_GIT_BRANCH is at the top of the Makefile |
| 19:10.02 | Ainulindale | Just put dev |
| 19:10.07 | Ainulindale | And don't use ASU |
| 19:10.14 | Ainulindale | And if you use ASU I can't help you with that |
| 19:10.16 | Ainulindale | Never tried |
| 19:10.19 | Xaos | so, OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openembedded.dev then |
| 19:10.23 | Ainulindale | Yep |
| 19:10.27 | lindi- | Ainulindale: find|grep Makefile$|xargs grep OM_GIT_BRAN |
| 19:10.29 | Ainulindale | I got a working image with that |
| 19:10.30 | lindi- | Ainulindale: prints nothing |
| 19:10.33 | Xaos | cool...then what afterwards? |
| 19:10.41 | Ainulindale | lindi-: ngnnnggg ? |
| 19:10.42 | Xaos | to re-compile/flash? |
| 19:10.46 | nullpuppy | woo, got gtk daily to run via gta01 |
| 19:10.50 | lindi- | Ainulindale: are we following the same howto? ;) |
| 19:10.54 | Ainulindale | I just told you to check your variable in the makefile |
| 19:11.05 | *** join/#openmoko Danker (n=tadas@78-61-62-81.static.zebra.lt) |
| 19:11.19 | Ainulindale | lindi-: where your Makefile is, open it and check the variable |
| 19:11.26 | Ainulindale | And put org.openembedded.dev in it |
| 19:11.28 | Tig| | Ainulindale, that link about battery life on the FSO : http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-July/020339.html I knew I had the link somewhere :) |
| 19:11.45 | Xaos | should we then do a "make qemu" after changing that variable or is there a better command? |
| 19:11.49 | lindi- | Ainulindale: ON_GIT_BRANCH is not mentioned anywhere under https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973 |
| 19:12.10 | lindi- | OM even |
| 19:12.15 | Xaos | lindi...I found this last week when looking...change it to: OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openembedded.dev |
| 19:12.28 | Xaos | vi Makefile |
| 19:12.30 | lindi- | Xaos: grep doesn't find it :) |
| 19:12.47 | lindi- | maybe you have some other svn module there completely? |
| 19:12.48 | *** join/#openmoko chris_debian (n=chris@host86-129-214-145.range86-129.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:12.51 | lindi- | i only did svn checkout https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973 |
| 19:12.59 | *** join/#openmoko alvarezp (n=alvarezp@201.139.193.235) |
| 19:12.59 | Xaos | go down about 24 lines...it's in the Makefile |
| 19:13.01 | Ainulindale | You didn't use mokomakefile |
| 19:13.08 | lindi- | yep i didn't |
| 19:13.08 | Ainulindale | Check for mokomakefile on the wiki |
| 19:13.27 | Xaos | lindi: you on Ubuntu? if so, go here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu |
| 19:13.45 | Ainulindale | Xaos: no you don't have to make qemu |
| 19:13.45 | michael | what is a good future-proof choice for some small personal apps without phone-features like .xml visualisation...pygtk? |
| 19:13.53 | Xaos | wget the Makefile, then edit it with: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu |
| 19:13.56 | Ainulindale | You just have to make flash-qemu-local if you built your image |
| 19:14.06 | Ainulindale | or flash-qemu-official if you download the image |
| 19:14.19 | Xaos | cool ...thanks Ainulindale...I'll try that |
| 19:14.43 | Ainulindale | but hey I've got to go my girlfriend's bringing me some soup, good for ill people |
| 19:14.53 | Ainulindale | My head's going to explode |
| 19:15.02 | Xaos | and he even helps us out while he's on his deathbed...what a guy! |
| 19:15.13 | Ainulindale | Yep I'm a super hero :-) |
| 19:15.29 | lindi- | Xaos: debian but i'll try anyway |
| 19:15.50 | Xaos | lindi: should be close enough |
| 19:17.34 | ecraven | how do i boot from SD with freerunner? two partitions (fat16 with kernel, ext2 with root)? that's what the wiki suggests, but it doesn't work for me. i get kernel panics, unable to mount root fs on (179,2) |
| 19:17.50 | lindi- | Xaos: http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile is 504 :( |
| 19:17.56 | lindi- | Xaos: Connecting to www.rwhitby.net|66.159.209.53|:80... failed: No route to host. |
| 19:18.05 | Xaos | ecraven: try to get some Xanax for your kernel |
| 19:18.14 | TAsn | Ainulindale, where did you see that bearstech give a pouch and a headset? |
| 19:18.21 | TAsn | http://bearstech.com/shop |
| 19:18.26 | TAsn | says they don't... |
| 19:18.43 | mmontour | ecraven: try ext3 instead of ext2 for the rootfs. |
| 19:18.45 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178057133.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:18.55 | ecraven | mmontour: tried, doesn't work |
| 19:19.03 | Xaos | lindi: ooh....sorry about that...I swear that's where I got mine...want me to try to send you my Makefile? |
| 19:19.04 | TAsn | Ainulindale, nvm just re read it :) |
| 19:19.18 | mmontour | Also add a "rootdelay=5" to your boot parameters if it's not already there. |
| 19:19.18 | TAsn | Ainulindale, im having trouble with french you know... ;) |
| 19:19.24 | lindi- | Xaos: well, it should be fixed to the wiki :) |
| 19:19.44 | Xaos | well, that's where I got it last Thursday...don't know where it is now |
| 19:19.45 | ecraven | mmontour: i'm not sure how to do that, i just hold the aux button and then select boot from SD |
| 19:20.23 | lindi- | Xaos: found alternative: http://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile |
| 19:20.46 | Xaos | cool |
| 19:21.07 | wurp2 | ecraven: You have to use cu or screen to get a console on your bootloader, instead of running dfu-util |
| 19:21.26 | wurp2 | ecraven: A google search for site:wiki.openmoko.org rootdelay will probably get you instructions |
| 19:21.40 | mmontour | You would have to check/edit the u-boot environment variables. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader_commands may help, although not all of it will apply to the Freerunner |
| 19:21.44 | ecraven | i don't use dfu-util, i want to boot from SD, not re-flash |
| 19:22.26 | *** join/#openmoko angasule (n=angasule@190.176.248.15) |
| 19:22.42 | wurp2 | ecraven: That's why I said instead of using dfu-util :-) |
| 19:22.56 | wurp2 | ecraven: Do the stuff you would normally do for dfu-util, to get the usb console |
| 19:23.07 | wurp2 | If you do the search I talked about it should give you complete instructions |
| 19:23.14 | wurp2 | Or just follow mmontour's link :-) |
| 19:23.16 | ecraven | i'll look, thanks :) |
| 19:25.21 | ecraven | shouldn't this rootdelay be already in there? |
| 19:25.49 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@host-84-220-76-76.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:26.32 | wurp2 | ecraven: Not necessarily, alpha sw :-( |
| 19:26.32 | mmontour | ecraven: it might be. I don't have a Freerunner yet. |
| 19:27.10 | ecraven | how do i check the current kernel parameters? |
| 19:27.12 | mmontour | It does look like the Freerunner u-boot is missing the workaround for bug #799 (or else you wouldn't need to have the kernel on its own FAT partition) |
| 19:27.37 | mmontour | /proc/cmdline should show it |
| 19:27.50 | ecraven | hm.. so i should actually update the u-boot as well? |
| 19:28.06 | ecraven | i just don't want to brick it so badly i can't boot any more ;-/ |
| 19:28.27 | Xaos | Ainulindale, lindi: I still get a non-responsive GUI after booting up in qemu. It's a different color scheme than the image that lindi posted, but performs the same |
| 19:28.33 | mmontour | It should be impossible to brick a Freerunner, but it's probably best to leave u-boot alone until you have more experience with the device |
| 19:28.56 | Ainulindale | TAsn: standard french vat on this kind of product is 19.6% |
| 19:28.57 | lindi- | Xaos: i got different UI when i changed to "devel" image in env |
| 19:29.05 | TAsn | Ainulindale, ouch! :( |
| 19:29.07 | Ainulindale | TAsn: in order to get it removed, I don't know |
| 19:29.09 | Xaos | lindi: what did you change in env? |
| 19:29.12 | TAsn | i c, thanks :) |
| 19:29.52 | mmontour | afk |
| 19:32.01 | lindi- | Xaos: /home/lindi/irclogs/2008/freenode/#openmoko.07-07.log:22:09 < lindi-> rootfs_wildcard="Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080706-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2" |
| 19:33.47 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-179-204.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:34.26 | ecraven | has anyone tried the newest uboot on a freerunner? |
| 19:35.25 | nullpuppy | so.. how do you close stuff in the gtk image? (in qemu) |
| 19:35.36 | nullpuppy | some apps have a menu with a close option, but most don't... |
| 19:36.07 | dos1 | nullpuppy: on home screen you have 3td tab on bottom |
| 19:36.14 | dos1 | here you can close apps |
| 19:37.19 | *** join/#openmoko n1c0 (n=chatzill@vau06-1-82-228-253-122.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:38.58 | *** join/#openmoko pthorin (n=peter@c-be4be353.02-61-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 19:39.21 | m4r3k | Tig|: so, they will sell it? (GSM900 Free Runner version) |
| 19:39.23 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 19:39.39 | lindi- | Xaos: that 'make qemu' still starts qtopia here too |
| 19:40.51 | Xaos | lindi: here's what I've done (still waiting to see if it works)...1. modify env as you directed. 2. downloaded that jffs2 file 3. ran make flash-qemu-official 4. ran make run-qemu-snapshot |
| 19:40.57 | Xaos | waiting to see if it boots nicely... |
| 19:41.27 | Tig| | m4r3k, all the information I have seen says yes they will sell the GSM900 from the webshop when they have some units there :) GSM900 units have also been on sale through distributors but I don't know of any that have any in stock at the moment as I think they are all waiting for deliveries |
| 19:42.19 | nullpuppy | dos1: hmm, the middle button is what gives me all the apps.. |
| 19:42.20 | nullpuppy | hmm |
| 19:43.16 | dos1 | nullpuppy: middle button is menu, when you can RUN apps |
| 19:43.18 | nullpuppy | ah, there we are |
| 19:43.25 | nullpuppy | its the far right button |
| 19:43.25 | lindi- | Xaos: aha |
| 19:43.30 | nullpuppy | dos1: right.. |
| 19:43.33 | dos1 | nullpuppy: in right button you have RUNNING aps |
| 19:43.34 | *** join/#openmoko mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de) |
| 19:43.34 | nullpuppy | oh |
| 19:43.37 | dos1 | and you can close :) |
| 19:43.40 | nullpuppy | whoops. i misread what you said ;) |
| 19:44.03 | m4r3k | Tig|: oh, thanks for you information, i am not desperate anymore :-) |
| 19:44.16 | Xaos | lindi: SUCCESS!!! |
| 19:44.25 | Xaos | lindi: did you get it? |
| 19:45.58 | ecraven | if i flash the uboot, can i seriously break things? so that i can't repair them without a debug board? |
| 19:46.25 | lindi- | Xaos: where did you find suggestion to run flash-qemu-official? |
| 19:46.48 | Xaos | Ainulindale told me up above somewhere |
| 19:46.49 | mwester | ecraven: flashing uboot is safe on the gta02; it is not safe on the gta01 |
| 19:46.55 | ecraven | mwester: freerunner here |
| 19:47.02 | mwester | aka gta02 |
| 19:47.02 | Qwell | mwester: how's it safer? |
| 19:47.08 | *** part/#openmoko arun (n=arun@unaffiliated/sindian) |
| 19:47.12 | ecraven | so i could use gta02v5-latest.bin in the hope that then booting from SD works out of the box? |
| 19:47.21 | Qwell | is there a "good" uboot stored in ro flash or something? |
| 19:47.35 | lindi- | Xaos: rright |
| 19:47.36 | mwester | The gta02 has an alternate boot flash memory that can be used to boot if the primary uboot is damaged. |
| 19:47.48 | lindi- | Xaos: can you add everything you did to somewhere in the wiki? ;) |
| 19:47.50 | Qwell | neat |
| 19:48.11 | Xaos | do I need a login to edit the wiki...I'll try to set one up...which page do you recommend I edit? |
| 19:50.12 | *** join/#openmoko kuzgun (n=deniz@unaffiliated/kuzgun) |
| 19:50.33 | lindi- | Xaos: i think |
| 19:51.28 | Xaos | lindi: I'll try to update http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu with what I did since that is where I got my original info from |
| 19:52.56 | lindi- | Xaos: do you see http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko2.png? |
| 19:54.10 | ecraven | hm.. if i select set console to usb from the boot menu, i should be able to connect to /dev/ttyACM0 with neocon, right? my freerunner just returns to the boot menu after about 2 seconds ;( |
| 19:54.33 | bumbl | Tig|: would you mind to post your blog entry concerning wlan again? |
| 19:54.58 | lindi- | or can anybody else verify if http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko2.png is what is being shipped right now? |
| 19:55.12 | Tanuva | my FR's eth0 claims to have a wlan link quality of 165/94, this cant be true, can it? |
| 19:56.54 | Tig| | ello bumbl : http://da.mned.co.uk/2008/06/29/openmoko-freerunner-wpa-wifi-howto/ |
| 19:56.55 | edistar | Tanuva: no, there still is a bug.. |
| 19:57.18 | bumbl | thank you |
| 19:57.23 | Tanuva | edistar: so it might not be my fault that I cant get wlan to work correctly? |
| 19:57.27 | Tig| | bumbl, mind you I think I hit the same bug as you earlier :) so I am still looking into it :) |
| 19:57.29 | Tanuva | or is it just this calculation? |
| 19:57.52 | edistar | Tanuva: well, wifi does work, only the signal strength is not reliable |
| 19:57.53 | bumbl | oh sorry for that; I am trying it again from the beginning |
| 19:58.08 | edistar | Tanuva: I got it to work.. |
| 19:58.10 | Tig| | lindi-, that looks like it but no blue, it is more of a gold colour |
| 19:58.24 | lindi- | Tig|: oh well |
| 19:58.25 | *** join/#openmoko jonkristian (n=jonkrist@50.80-203-232.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:58.41 | Tanuva | edistar: strange. it says its correctly associated with the net, but I cant get any ping over |
| 19:58.42 | Xaos | lindi: yes, that's what I see...but without the blue color. ;-) |
| 19:58.55 | edistar | Tanuva: what does udhcpc tell you? |
| 19:59.04 | Tanuva | nothing, I have static ips here |
| 19:59.12 | edistar | Tanuva: oh, ok |
| 19:59.32 | edistar | Tanuva: mine only worked when I ifdown'ed usb0.. |
| 19:59.47 | jonkristian | The GSM 900 says sold out on the openmoko store, is it already sold out, or is it just not available yet? |
| 20:00.11 | _ferric | not avail yet |
| 20:00.27 | jonkristian | ok, that's what i though:) Any updates on when it will be? |
| 20:00.32 | Tanuva | edistar: but that should be a routing issue I think... I removed the default route over usb0 so it had to use eth0. and I told ping to use eth0... |
| 20:00.50 | edistar | Tanuva: should work then.. |
| 20:00.52 | edistar | Tanuva: which image? |
| 20:01.01 | lindi- | Xaos: what has changed the color? ;) |
| 20:01.25 | Tanuva | edistar: asu and gtk from 20080706 |
| 20:01.39 | Xaos | is yours orange when running? |
| 20:02.02 | Xaos | if so, then it's probably the screencap program you are using that is changing the palette. |
| 20:02.18 | *** join/#openmoko t_ (n=t@c5147525d.cable.wanadoo.nl) |
| 20:03.22 | Tig| | bumbl, right mine is working perfectly again, it did take two ifup ifdown sequences to get an ip |
| 20:03.46 | lindi- | Xaos: my device is still on its way |
| 20:04.08 | Tig| | what I have done (feck knows if this will help) is put a symlink to /etc/sysconfig/wpa_supplicant in /etc/defaults just in case |
| 20:04.13 | Xaos | lindi: mine too...although I haven't gotten the ship notice yet |
| 20:04.18 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-75-28-22.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:04.27 | Xaos | lindi: what was the location for the MokoMakefile that you found? |
| 20:05.11 | lindi- | Xaos: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokomakefile |
| 20:05.15 | lindi- | Xaos: links to alternatives |
| 20:05.48 | *** part/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@host81-153-198-60.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:05.57 | ecraven | how do i correctly call setenv menu_1 ...? |
| 20:06.21 | edistar | ecraven: while you're in uboot access it with cu |
| 20:06.37 | wurp2 | Or screen |
| 20:07.03 | ecraven | i am in uboot, i want to add rootdelay=5 to the kernel param list |
| 20:07.16 | ecraven | if i saveenv, the changes will stay when i reboot the neo? |
| 20:07.23 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-215-221.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 20:07.30 | edistar | ecraven: yes |
| 20:08.11 | Tanuva | can I somehow prevent asu from dropping its sqlite-db on the sdcard? |
| 20:08.49 | ecraven | hm.. seems rootdelay is already in there, and it still doesn't boot from my SD :( |
| 20:09.13 | ecraven | anything obviously wrong with this? menu_1=Boot from microSD (FAT+ext2): setenv bootargs ${bootargs_base} rootfstype=ext2 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootdelay=5 ${mtdparts} ro; mmcinit; fatload mmc 1 0x32000000 ${sd_image_name}; bootm 0x32000000 |
| 20:09.32 | *** join/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@host81-153-198-60.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:09.54 | bumbl | Tig|: /etc/defaults doesn't exist here; just /etc/default/ |
| 20:11.03 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@wikipedia/norro) |
| 20:13.27 | bumbl | Tig|: at the moment wlan works |
| 20:13.35 | bumbl | incl. dns |
| 20:13.39 | bumbl | is happy |
| 20:14.01 | torpor | yo |
| 20:14.58 | lindi- | Xaos: any idea how to hide virtual keyboard in terminal but still be able to use external keyboard |
| 20:15.14 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5f9bf.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 20:16.06 | Tig| | bumbl, oops I typoed :) I made a symlink in /etc/default/ even :) it is working??!!! \o/ |
| 20:16.28 | bumbl | yes |
| 20:16.40 | Tig| | yipeeee! |
| 20:16.58 | bumbl | ping www.google.com 0% packet loss; I am trying opkg update at the moment |
| 20:17.30 | Xaos | lindi: no...no idea as of yet. |
| 20:18.00 | *** join/#openmoko lpotter (n=ljp@CPE-124-191-144-181.vic.bigpond.net.au) |
| 20:18.01 | Xaos | ALL: I updated the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Automatic_emulation_in_Ubuntu to include how to get a WORKING image into qemu...update at the bottom |
| 20:18.05 | lindi- | Xaos: ok |
| 20:18.20 | SpeedEvil | Xaos: :) |
| 20:18.24 | Xaos | please check my update to the wiki and make sure it makes sense |
| 20:18.35 | cb22 | mickey|sofa: did you use something to generate http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:OpenmokoFramework08.png or did you just use gimpp? |
| 20:19.32 | paulproteus | Ainulindale, wurp2 etc: Sorry I've been away a day; I'll be back in touch in a few hours (-: |
| 20:20.11 | Ainulindale | No problem, but you know that you'll be whipped |
| 20:20.31 | cb22 | paulproteus: #openmoko-cdevel |
| 20:20.47 | *** join/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@host81-153-198-60.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:21.07 | bumbl | Tig|: I can't use of opkg because I can't reach the buildhosts IP (78.47.190.211) and url with my freerunner; my pc which is assoziated with the same router has no problem at all; I can ping other adresses though e.g. www.gentoo.org |
| 20:22.42 | Tig| | bumbl, I am beginning to suspect a bug in the dns resolver now or how it has been implimented :( |
| 20:23.03 | Tig| | bumbl, just a thought, chuck it into /etc/hosts and see if it can hit it |
| 20:23.20 | bumbl | yes there is a bug in the dns resolver but |
| 20:23.26 | Tanuva | has a date with his bed |
| 20:23.41 | bumbl | I can't reach neither the ip nor the url |
| 20:23.55 | Tig| | ah good point sorry |
| 20:23.55 | bumbl | gn8t Tanuva |
| 20:24.05 | Tig| | nn Tanuva |
| 20:25.23 | bumbl | Tig|: should we file a bug report or something like that? |
| 20:26.39 | Tig| | bumbl, Yes but I would still like to try and nail it down a bit more than we have atm :) Not sure how helpful it would be at this point :( |
| 20:27.09 | Tig| | if you can't ping the ip then it is not the dns resolver or is not in this case |
| 20:27.22 | Tig| | I suspect there are two bugs here confusing the issue |
| 20:27.31 | bumbl | no maybe it's a bug in the mac*** wlan kernel stack |
| 20:27.39 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 20:27.46 | Tig| | bumbl, could be |
| 20:28.35 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD9539E9E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:29.14 | Tig| | biab need to cook some food :) |
| 20:30.07 | bumbl | enjoy your meal |
| 20:32.52 | *** join/#openmoko Gyb (n=Gyb@f053152092.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:35.53 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=kdean06@fsf/member/kdean06) |
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| 20:44.07 | *** topic/#openmoko by paulproteus -> Buy Freerunner at http://openmoko.com/ , or linked distributors. | Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates | Software means it's _NOT_ a stable phone, even for the expert user. This will change as more is developed. | #openmoko-cdevel for community dev efforts |
| 20:44.19 | paulproteus | kdean06, See /topic (-: |
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| 20:47.12 | *** join/#openmoko StealthCP (n=stealthc@user-5444388e.lns2-c10.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
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| 20:50.52 | *** join/#openmoko andersfeder (n=feder@x1-6-00-0e-2e-63-4c-cb.k415.webspeed.dk) |
| 21:01.03 | bumbl | is there a wiki page which documents the filesystem of openmoko (where what settings are located, where to find background, ringtone,...) |
| 21:01.46 | *** join/#openmoko sontek (n=sontek@opensuse/member/Sontek) |
| 21:01.47 | wurp2 | bumbl: No :-( |
| 21:02.09 | wurp2 | bumbl: A lot of that will be different for different releases, but not all |
| 21:03.14 | *** join/#openmoko cruxis (n=cruxs@hnvr-4d07a420.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:04.17 | cruxis | Hi @all! does anyone use the campwifi program in the asu- image? it doesn't work for me....i don't see any wireless network etc. |
| 21:04.19 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@dslb-088-072-017-207.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:04.36 | bumbl | so I have to find it out the hard way |
| 21:05.05 | wurp2 | bumbl: Some of it will be scattered around on the wiki, but mostly, yes |
| 21:05.23 | wurp2 | Of course, there's nothing preventing you from creating a page to start organizing that stuff |
| 21:05.39 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 21:05.54 | bumbl | wurp2: i'll do that |
| 21:06.13 | bumbl | cruxis: afaik that thing is under development at the moment |
| 21:07.06 | *** join/#openmoko tanner (n=marc@191-100.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 21:07.16 | cruxis | bumbl: mmh, yes i thought something like this. So i've to manually configure the wireless network using woa_supplicant, is it correct? |
| 21:08.24 | *** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
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| 21:17.11 | Fossi | hi. i don't get it. i activated wifi on my new freerunner, but opgk update fails because it can't download the signature files. |
| 21:17.13 | *** join/#openmoko ||Leto|| (n=tomboy64@e178049027.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:18.14 | SpeedEvil | does ping www.google.com work? |
| 21:18.48 | Fossi | yes, it downloads the package.gz as well |
| 21:18.59 | Fossi | it just 404's on the signatures |
| 21:19.08 | SpeedEvil | I vaguely recall that the site has problems and is being fixed |
| 21:19.33 | Fossi | ok, because http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/all/Packages.sig is not there, so there is nothing to download |
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| 21:25.11 | *** join/#openmoko renato_ (n=renato@200.184.118.132) |
| 21:27.55 | wurp2 | I didn't think opkg update failed when it couldn't get the sigs... |
| 21:28.00 | wurp2 | Are you sure that's not just a warning? |
| 21:28.34 | bumbl | cruxis: yes you have to; i hope you have more success than I |
| 21:28.54 | Fossi | oh, didn't even check :D |
| 21:29.01 | Fossi | hehe |
| 21:29.05 | Fossi | the upgrade works |
| 21:29.10 | Fossi | stupid me |
| 21:29.38 | cruxis | bumbl: it's working fine for me ;-) ok....the next thing is, that i'll try to compile gnome "network-manager" ...maybe this could work ;-) |
| 21:29.43 | wurp2 | excellent |
| 21:29.49 | Tig| | not back yet but just popped back for a sec. I recall on a mailing list / here that you can safely ignore the .sog errors as they are just warnings |
| 21:31.11 | flexd_ | Just got a fix on the GPS with my FR :) |
| 21:31.28 | flexd_ | Thanks to Al Johnson on the mailing list. |
| 21:31.48 | bumbl | cruxis: I don't think it will but anyway my experience showed me (except on the freerunner) that network-manager is crap; wpa_supplicant works by far better |
| 21:32.03 | flexd_ | bumbl: did you get WPA/WEP encryption working with wpa_supplicant? |
| 21:32.10 | bumbl | no |
| 21:32.21 | Tig| | bumbl, it has died again? |
| 21:32.25 | bumbl | yes |
| 21:32.29 | Tig| | arse |
| 21:32.51 | cruxis | bumbl: ...i try ;-) i don't have any bad experience with the network manager...anyway |
| 21:33.03 | bumbl | for those who speak german I have summarized my tries here http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=247 |
| 21:33.38 | cruxis | bumbl: sag doch das wir aus dem selben land kommen ;-) |
| 21:33.45 | bumbl | ^^ |
| 21:33.46 | Fossi | alle ;p |
| 21:33.57 | Tig| | I am sodding off to Ireland tomorrow so don't have time to test this but I think the next step is to retest on a wep / open network to see if the same issues persist |
| 21:34.01 | flexd_ | Anyone here have any experience with tangogps? |
| 21:34.05 | Tig| | arse battery fail |
| 21:34.07 | bumbl | cruxis: ich komm aber aus oesterreich |
| 21:34.46 | cruxis | bumbl: niemand ist perfekt ;-) *scherz* back to english my friend ;-) |
| 21:35.00 | flexd_ | I dont have a SIM card in my FR atm, and i need to download the maps for my country/region to the memory card so i dont need a net :) |
| 21:35.06 | flexd_ | net access* |
| 21:35.22 | doc|work | Tig|: where in Ireland? |
| 21:35.30 | doc|work | is Irish (but in Canada) |
| 21:35.40 | Fossi | btw, i had quite some problems with wpa as well, but i guess that's more of a problem with my router |
| 21:35.50 | Fossi | my laptop acts up as well if i use it |
| 21:36.02 | Tig| | doc|work, belfast back in a sec this laptop is out of juice |
| 21:36.51 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 21:37.00 | bumbl | Fossi: that is the strange thing: my laptop and my pc have near to identical/ identical settings as the freerunner has but only the freerunner fails to stay online |
| 21:37.16 | Fossi | yeah, glimpsed over your report |
| 21:37.20 | Fossi | looks strange |
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| 21:43.43 | Fossi | is there a (n easy) way to kill that annoying touchpad sound |
| 21:44.39 | doc|work | Fossi: someone asked that, replacing the sound file with an empty wav file was the suggested solution (or edit the code to add an option) |
| 21:44.55 | *** join/#openmoko Tig| (n=user@82.153.215.237) |
| 21:45.51 | te_acrid | i love that sound btw :) |
| 21:46.37 | flexd_ | Hmmm |
| 21:46.40 | flexd_ | My FR is slooow |
| 21:46.49 | flexd_ | and load average is: 6.73, 6.02, 5.34 |
| 21:46.53 | doc|work | slow? be happy it's workign! :) |
| 21:46.55 | flexd_ | Havent rebooted it in a while :/ |
| 21:46.56 | doc|work | wow |
| 21:46.59 | doc|work | that's not right |
| 21:47.09 | flexd_ | events/0 is using 33.3% cpu |
| 21:47.15 | flexd_ | tango gps 12.8 |
| 21:47.16 | *** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 21:47.22 | flexd_ | avahi-daemon 10, neod 10.8 |
| 21:47.36 | flexd_ | according to top, under the %CPU column |
| 21:47.50 | flexd_ | the phone is actually a bit warm :o |
| 21:48.13 | flexd_ | (not warm, but i can feel it's a tad warmer than room temp) |
| 21:48.41 | flexd_ | So what should i do? |
| 21:48.52 | flexd_ | Im not that much of a linux exper |
| 21:48.53 | flexd_ | t |
| 21:48.57 | bumbl | halt# |
| 21:49.06 | flexd_ | restart it? |
| 21:49.13 | bumbl | yes |
| 21:49.21 | flexd_ | kk |
| 21:49.39 | flexd_ | that actually seemed to do nada |
| 21:49.46 | flexd_ | it just sits there in tangogps o_0 |
| 21:49.54 | flexd_ | wait nvm, here we go |
| 21:49.59 | bobkare | hm, what's events/0? it's completely idle here, barely has any cumulative cpu time |
| 21:50.02 | bumbl | even under linux a reboot may help |
| 21:50.12 | bumbl | events/0 are the accelerometres |
| 21:50.15 | flexd_ | I saw the FSO boot image now o_0 |
| 21:50.35 | bobkare | Ah, I've never tried them, might explain it |
| 21:50.55 | flexd_ | ive tried them once |
| 21:51.48 | flexd_ | I can't remember who, but someone had a sample program/python script called gta02.py, where you could turn the leds on and off, see wlans in the area and see accelerometer info |
| 21:52.17 | bobkare | that script crashed when I tried running it |
| 21:52.41 | flexd_ | Ran fine here, but maybe it hangs dormant, eating resources? :/ |
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| 21:53.14 | *** part/#openmoko cruxis (n=cruxs@hnvr-4d07a420.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:53.37 | flexd_ | argh crap |
| 21:53.51 | flexd_ | I had just booted the phone, and i had the power menu up to enable gps |
| 21:53.52 | bobkare | Hm, what I can do is run python gta02.py then wait for a while then press ctrl+c then it shows the panes for leds and wireless but accelerometer stuff is blank |
| 21:54.04 | flexd_ | then i manged to press it again and i was gonna dismiss it, and managed to shutdown the phone -_- |
| 21:54.11 | flexd_ | bobkare: weird |
| 21:55.07 | bobkare | I really hope it doesn't mean my accelerometers are somehow not working :/ |
| 21:56.55 | doc|work | hmm, under a 28 day DOA warranty, we get kinda screwed if the software doesn't work and we don't know therefore that hardware's not working :/ |
| 21:57.48 | edistar | bobkare: check with hexdump |
| 21:58.07 | bobkare | edistar: on what? |
| 21:58.27 | bobkare | I see the gta02.py script opens /dev/input/event3, there's nothing there if I cat it |
| 21:58.48 | isprins | why are the headset jack a non standard one ? |
| 21:58.51 | doc|work | shake the phone :) |
| 21:59.22 | bobkare | no change |
| 22:00.01 | edistar | bobkare: on the accels |
| 22:00.33 | flexd_ | hmmmm |
| 22:00.53 | bobkare | edistar: could you at least point me towards some documentation that explains where the device files are? |
| 22:00.58 | flexd_ | running only tangogps, i have 2.60, 2.86, 1.51 avg. load |
| 22:00.59 | edistar | bobkare: hexdump /dev/input/event2 |
| 22:01.01 | edistar | bobkare: hexdump /dev/input/event3 |
| 22:01.03 | edistar | bobkare: hexdump /dev/input/event1 |
| 22:01.09 | bobkare | right, thanks |
| 22:01.15 | edistar | should work |
| 22:01.37 | flexd_ | I thought it was only event3? |
| 22:01.45 | bobkare | Ah, seems to be event2 here |
| 22:01.47 | *** join/#openmoko rtm (n=rtm@pool-151-199-21-159.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:01.48 | edistar | flexd_: no, there should be 3 accels |
| 22:02.00 | flexd_ | edistar: only event3 is spamming jibberish |
| 22:02.02 | flexd_ | the other's spam nothing |
| 22:02.29 | bobkare | and here I have /dev/input/touchscreen0 pointing at event1 |
| 22:02.37 | edistar | flexd_: jibberish os ok |
| 22:02.38 | edistar | is ok |
| 22:02.49 | flexd_ | edistar: yea i know, but only event3 is spamming it |
| 22:02.57 | flexd_ | Which makes me believe all accels are event3? |
| 22:02.58 | *** join/#openmoko SirBob1701 (n=SirBob17@pool-72-81-42-139.phlapa.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:02.59 | rtm | Has anyone received confirmation that an order placed on the OM online store has shipped? |
| 22:03.01 | flexd_ | Just gotta parse it? |
| 22:03.07 | edistar | sry, event1 isn't accel |
| 22:03.11 | edistar | there are only two.. |
| 22:03.20 | *** join/#openmoko Thegh (n=quaim@ip-85-197-140-56.lind-sata.dsl.bikab.com) |
| 22:03.34 | edistar | flexd_: yeah, there is a kernel issue preventing event2 from 'spamming jibberish' |
| 22:03.57 | flexd_ | edistar: alrighty, havent tried using them yet anyway |
| 22:04.22 | edistar | flexd_: just parse that and you should be fine :) or wait for an FSO daemon ;) |
| 22:04.39 | flexd_ | uhm, i dont have a build enviroment setup atm |
| 22:04.45 | flexd_ | could someone build http://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/openmoko-agpsui/ for me? |
| 22:04.48 | flexd_ | for a freerunner :) |
| 22:05.08 | bobkare | flexd_: I just installed that with opkg |
| 22:07.33 | bobkare | edistar: Hm, ok. seems it's reveresed for me, spitting data on event2 but not 3 |
| 22:07.36 | Fossi | why is there no clock on the freerunner's home screen? |
| 22:07.40 | bobkare | *reversed |
| 22:07.47 | Fossi | is there anything you can do with it? |
| 22:07.54 | bobkare | Fossi: there is on the newest devel image |
| 22:08.04 | Tig| | Fossi: later images have it |
| 22:08.08 | Fossi | ok |
| 22:08.13 | Fossi | kinda makes no sense as is :) |
| 22:08.20 | edistar | bobkare: apparently that changes every boot |
| 22:10.01 | bobkare | OK. at least I got it to work so I know at least one accelerometer is working |
| 22:10.33 | TAsn | someone should make a DOA check script :) |
| 22:10.40 | *** join/#openmoko lzy-- (n=lzy@59-126-117-54.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 22:10.49 | TAsn | one that checks accelerometers, gps, wifi, bt and stuff :) |
| 22:11.03 | bobkare | this gta02.py thing isn't far off. does leds wifi and accels |
| 22:11.36 | Fossi | so, the latest images are more than what you get through opkg update? |
| 22:11.40 | bobkare | gps is a chore to test as you need to stand outside freezing for 20 minutes or so |
| 22:11.54 | edistar | Fossi: yes |
| 22:12.02 | doc|work | what's the current status of agps? |
| 22:12.38 | Tig| | bobkare: did not take 20 mins here for a fix, point it up and make sure you can see a good chunk of sky |
| 22:12.41 | bobkare | doc|work: Take a look at the community ML thread "GPS", seems somebody there has some scripts |
| 22:12.45 | *** join/#openmoko lzy-- (n=lzy@59-126-117-54.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 22:13.07 | bobkare | Tig|: I've done that. Repeatedly. Takes me at least 15 minutes |
| 22:13.47 | doc|work | bobkare: cool thanks |
| 22:14.22 | Tig| | bobkare: then I think there is a software issue somewhere :( |
| 22:16.23 | bobkare | Tig|: the ML thread I just referenced have loads of debug info. basically it needs a complete download of almanac + ephermis every time you restart the gps chip, which takes minimum 12 minutes |
| 22:16.49 | *** join/#openmoko piti (n=pablo@mut38-1-82-67-65-78.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:16.53 | bobkare | or 14 or something |
| 22:17.00 | doc|work | ouch |
| 22:17.22 | bobkare | except some people apparently somehow get very good signals or something and it just works |
| 22:17.41 | doc|work | couldn't that be stored to the disk or does it have to be refreshed? |
| 22:17.48 | Tig| | how the hell did I get a fix in a few mins then? /me is baffled as I installed gpsd and stuff and it just worked |
| 22:17.54 | cjb | I think those people are using pre-production GPA02s |
| 22:18.06 | wurp2 | Tig|: With AGPS I know it can fix earlier with a connection |
| 22:18.14 | Tig| | I had turned gps on in the past |
| 22:18.27 | Tig| | but this was after a flash |
| 22:18.29 | wurp2 | Tig|: I'm not sure if AGPS can get a fix earlier w/o a connection, based on cached data or something |
| 22:19.07 | Tig| | will do some testing |
| 22:19.38 | bobkare | seems much of the problem is that the gps chip should have had a little bit of memory - 4kB or something, to store the almanac. then it just needs to get ephermis data which is sent every 30 seconds |
| 22:20.17 | doc|work | er, in-bult flash? |
| 22:20.20 | Tig| | but tomorrow as it is raining and dark outside and i would rather sit inside with a beer :) |
| 22:20.23 | doc|work | why can't that be used? |
| 22:20.29 | doc|work | Tig|: wuss :) |
| 22:20.33 | bobkare | doc|work: ask u-blox |
| 22:21.09 | Tig| | doc|work: aye :) have to be on a 7am flight too so can't stay up too late :( |
| 22:21.12 | edistar | it's quite ridiculous to have a gps taking >12 min for a fix |
| 22:21.16 | doc|work | Tig|: :) |
| 22:21.31 | edistar | I waited for 2h outside with nothing but fields around me and didn't get a fix.. |
| 22:22.01 | Tig| | edistar: was the device lying flat? |
| 22:22.27 | edistar | Tig|: no, upright in my trousers |
| 22:22.27 | bobkare | but it seems the agps features of the chip can be used to give the gps a good idea of where it is, so if something is cooked up that gives it a reasonable idea of where it is that can be fed to the gps and it should get a fix much faster |
| 22:22.43 | *** join/#openmoko phr3ak (n=phr3ak@22-vh-shost.hostoffice.hu) |
| 22:22.58 | *** join/#openmoko rtp (n=rtp@2a01:e35:8a67:9600:20e:cff:fedc:7859) |
| 22:23.16 | Tig| | edistar: hmm, tin foil trousers? |
| 22:23.30 | edistar | Tig|: :D |
| 22:23.31 | Tig| | :) |
| 22:23.42 | doc|work | woah |
| 22:23.45 | doc|work | context++ |
| 22:24.05 | *** part/#openmoko Xaos (n=read@pool-71-170-53-17.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:25.38 | Tig| | just a quick q, the default images and packages don't have any AGPS support built in do they as I might have been connected to the wifi at the same time |
| 22:25.50 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009120124.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 22:26.00 | edistar | Tig|: afaik not |
| 22:26.16 | bobkare | Tig|: Hmmm, did you use the agps-test-whatever-it's-named-software? |
| 22:26.28 | bobkare | wouldn't surprise me if that had some magick... |
| 22:26.58 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@137-252.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 22:27.44 | Tig| | edistar: then the only explanation was that I had activated the gps earlier and it had got it's fix etc and then it was only later that it was when I installed gpsd that i noticed output |
| 22:28.46 | Tig| | even so 12mins for a fix? that is not right |
| 22:29.00 | bobkare | seems some people don't have as many issues with this, especially it seems to work fast if you have an external antenna |
| 22:29.24 | bobkare | so it's some kind of mix between antenna problem and lack of almanac storage and no agps-support |
| 22:29.36 | wurp2 | Tig|: I know I get fixes in << 12 minutes on my neo1973 when I just started the hardware |
| 22:30.07 | wurp2 | Tig|: But if you're getting a fix in < 4 seconds, it's got to be because the gps already had a fix, and you're just now getting a position update |
| 22:30.09 | Tig| | wurp2: is it the same chipset in the freerunner? |
| 22:30.17 | bobkare | From what I read on the ML this is freerunner-specific, doesn't happen on 1973 |
| 22:30.22 | bobkare | it's a completely different gps chip |
| 22:30.24 | wurp2 | Tig|: nope |
| 22:30.27 | Tig| | oh it was not 4 secs it was a min or so |
| 22:30.35 | wurp2 | That sounds like a real fix |
| 22:31.04 | bobkare | sounds like fix when the gps has almanac data already |
| 22:31.09 | wurp2 | bobkare: The once-every-12 minutes for the full satellite info is based on the satellites as far as I know |
| 22:33.41 | bobkare | wurp2: yes, I think that's almanac data that's transmitted in a 12-minute cycle |
| 22:34.24 | bobkare | Ohwell, I'm going to bed, have to get up early. hoping to get a fix in a reasonable amount of time tomorrow morning as I got one now and will leave the gps powered overnight |
| 22:35.08 | wurp2 | bobkare: If you have a fix now and you leave it powered, I think you'll just maintain a fix... |
| 22:35.17 | wurp2 | Depending on how indoors your neo is |
| 22:35.30 | wurp2 | i.e. I keep one just fine in my house, but not at work |
| 22:37.16 | bobkare | no, it has no satellite coverage here |
| 22:37.46 | bobkare | I'm just hoping that having almanac data will let me get a fix in a reasonable time in the morning |
| 22:38.52 | bobkare | I have checked that it works in a faster timespan, I took it indoors and let it maintain power, but I packed it in aluminum foil just to make sure it lost all signal. got a fix in a minute or so after going outside afterwards |
| 22:40.53 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r092ef7d99639 10/otapi/org.freesmartphone.GSM.PDP.xml.in: otapi: add documentation for org.freesmartphone.GSM.PDP |
| 22:41.45 | wurp2 | bobkare: excellent |
| 22:42.42 | bobkare | will be interesting to see if it helps me get a fix tomorrow morning. it should, the almanac data should be valid for that long iirc |
| 22:43.43 | *** join/#openmoko Thegh (n=quaim@ip-85-197-140-56.lind-sata.dsl.bikab.com) |
| 22:44.08 | mjr | afaik yeah |
| 22:44.16 | mjr | iirc, even |
| 22:44.40 | mjr | hopefully the "a" will enable faster fixes... |
| 22:45.36 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * rd4c403a17bdd 10/otapi/xhtml/ (2 files): otapi: update html documentation |
| 22:46.55 | *** join/#openmoko Sjano (i=l@217-132-139.211310.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 22:50.49 | SirBob1701 | So are we getting tracking numbers for us shipments when they leave warehouse? |
| 22:52.49 | rtm | Has anyone received confirmation that an order placed on the OM online store has shipped? |
| 22:53.05 | Tig| | SirBob1701: as far as I know people are awaiting UPS mails when things start shipping |
| 22:53.34 | *** join/#openmoko ljp (n=lpotter@218.185.108.156) |
| 22:53.37 | Tig| | rtm : people on here were expecting shipping tomorrow |
| 22:54.09 | rtm | Tig: So the belief is that no orders will actually ship today? |
| 22:54.21 | Tig| | but there has been no official announcement |
| 22:54.32 | cjb | rtm: someone on list said orders around #1500 will ship tomorrow. |
| 22:54.36 | SirBob1701 | Tig|: thanks sorry about being a pain |
| 22:54.40 | cjb | if yours is significantly < 1500, perhaps it's shipping today. |
| 22:55.01 | Tig| | SirBob1701: I know what you are going through :) |
| 22:56.26 | rtm | I'm 1367, but I've not heard that anyone has received notice of shipment. |
| 22:58.10 | SirBob1701 | cjb: i'm 1124 ordered at like 8 in the morning east coast lol |
| 22:59.20 | rtm | SirBob: I'd have been in at 5:30 EDT, if my lousy credit card comapany had not blocked the transaction. I had a cron job watching fo the store to open. |
| 22:59.47 | Tig| | is evil and strokes his freerunner :) |
| 23:00.05 | rtm | We will hunt you down. |
| 23:00.11 | Tig| | heh :) |
| 23:00.25 | SirBob1701 | mine was weird my credit card company let the transaction pass and then called me later for clearance. I got confirmation from openmoko before it ever finished processing |
| 23:00.29 | Tig| | I have a head start :) my gps works :) |
| 23:01.47 | doc|work | cool, so, eh, what are the coordinates? |
| 23:02.09 | cjb | I wonder if it's possible to tell tangogps where you're going from/to and have it download the most detailed map tiles for the path |
| 23:02.19 | Tig| | 13N37W :P |
| 23:02.23 | doc|work | cjb: it can be, if you make it so! :) |
| 23:02.32 | doc|work | Tig|: excellent, cruise missile on the way! |
| 23:02.34 | SirBob1701 | cjb: i was wondering the same thing. was thinking of looking at code |
| 23:02.35 | rtm | cjb: You can do that now. |
| 23:02.39 | mjr | cjb, hmm, that would be useful even without actual tracking |
| 23:02.48 | Tig| | cjb: would be an ace feature |
| 23:02.53 | mjr | /routing, that is |
| 23:02.56 | *** join/#openmoko pjj (n=pjj@223-134-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 23:03.05 | wurp2 | mjr: Routing on tangogps? |
| 23:03.15 | mjr | wurp2, "without" |
| 23:03.20 | mjr | as in how it is |
| 23:03.29 | Tig| | mjr: tangogps does not support routing and is more of a moving map |
| 23:03.29 | wurp2 | mjr: Ah |
| 23:03.37 | mjr | Tig|, _I know_ |
| 23:03.53 | SirBob1701 | what kinda file size are the tiles for tango? |
| 23:04.02 | wurp2 | prefixing your sentence w/ / is not a very clear way of saying without ;-) |
| 23:04.22 | *** join/#openmoko pjj (n=pjj@223-134-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 23:04.24 | mjr | correction to the end of my last sentence |
| 23:04.24 | Tig| | also if using osm for routing there are lots of info missing for routing, speedlimits, one way systems etc |
| 23:04.43 | wurp2 | ah |
| 23:04.43 | bobkare | Tig|: depends on where you are |
| 23:04.51 | mjr | I know that also (though I would like the feature regardless) |
| 23:04.55 | Tig| | apologies for preaching to the choir here :( |
| 23:05.04 | bobkare | have a look at rana btw |
| 23:05.21 | wurp2 | or navit |
| 23:05.25 | mjr | (I'm also not a carowner, so the limitations of osm data are less of an issue for me |
| 23:05.36 | wurp2 | although if rana will run at reasonable speeds on my 01 I'm very interested :-) |
| 23:05.37 | bobkare | not really streamlined for the freerunner yet, but it's getting there |
| 23:06.11 | bobkare | wurp2: then forget pyrender (at least for now) it's really slow on freerunner... |
| 23:06.28 | mjr | people seem to easily forget that light traffic wants routing too and is not so picky about one-way streets and speed limits |
| 23:06.42 | bobkare | wurp2: you can switch to mapnik or osmarender and just download tiles though |
| 23:07.07 | wurp2 | bobkare: Well, I like the vector maps |
| 23:07.09 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 23:07.45 | bobkare | *shrug* be prepared to wait for rendering then. at least it caches heavily |
| 23:08.20 | bobkare | bah, but i really need to go to sleep. /me disconnects from screen session |
| 23:08.22 | mjr | downloading tiles is fine if it'll still allow routing on them just the same, which one would presume? |
| 23:09.05 | Tig| | afaik tango is currently limited to plotting current location on bitmap tiles |
| 23:09.16 | mjr | Tig|, yes, not talking about tango anymore |
| 23:09.30 | Tig| | mjr oops sorry :/ |
| 23:10.14 | mjr | Rana can route, within the OSM limitations |
| 23:11.56 | mjr | and apparently it should be less insanely slow than pyroute |
| 23:12.36 | mjr | (given map tiles from the network and not rendered, at least, as discussed above) |
| 23:12.40 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:12.45 | *** join/#openmoko chillywilly (n=danielb@rrcs-67-53-13-27.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 23:13.04 | chillywilly | bah...the payment gateway service has really poor error reporting |
| 23:13.30 | chillywilly | I don't speak taiwanese either |
| 23:13.40 | chillywilly | ±z¿é¤J«HÂ¥ÃÂ¥dªº®Ã¶¡¹Lªø, ½Ã¦^Âì°Ã©±ºô¯¸Â«·s¥æ©ö¡C |
| 23:13.43 | chillywilly | fun |
| 23:13.46 | chillywilly | Timeout, please go back to Merchant web site and create a new order. |
| 23:13.59 | mjr | Tig|, anyway yeah sorry, being a bit snappy |
| 23:14.05 | mjr | -> sleep |
| 23:14.13 | Tig| | mjr nn |
| 23:14.23 | chillywilly | wonders if his excitement is premature |
| 23:14.55 | chillywilly | tries the CA distributor instead |
| 23:16.28 | chillywilly | or not...just links back to fic.com.tw |
| 23:21.45 | Tig| | nn all |
| 23:21.51 | Tig| | battery dead |
| 23:21.54 | *** part/#openmoko Tig| (n=user@82.153.215.237) |
| 23:22.44 | *** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host142-133-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 23:23.19 | *** join/#openmoko Danker (n=tadas@78-61-62-81.static.zebra.lt) |
| 23:25.42 | Sjano | hello |
| 23:29.55 | *** join/#openmoko mw|_ (n=stian@084202241056.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 23:30.31 | Gnutoo | hello,it seems that gta01's kernel support ps2 keyboard...but how do i enable it? i need a keyboard in qemu because setting the network without a keboard is pain.... |
| 23:31.06 | Gnutoo | and i can't install others software keyboards because i don't have the network |
| 23:32.01 | ferric | o hai. |
| 23:34.07 | Gnutoo | by the way i think i'll need the support for usb keyboard when i'll get the freerunner...(simplier to have an usb keyboard with luks setup) |
| 23:39.32 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r7809c75db0c2 10/otapi/ (9 files in 2 dirs): otapi: add org.freesmartphone.GSM.PDP.GetCurrentGprsClass() -> s |
| 23:40.01 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r84be9f5c04ed 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ti_calypso/channel.py: ophoned: [TI CALYPSO] use more detailed GPRS event reporting |
| 23:40.01 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rbd93489d2d89 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): |
| 23:40.01 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: implement remaining bits of org.freesmartphone.GSM.PDP: |
| 23:40.02 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: * ListAvailableGprsClasses() -> as |
| 23:40.04 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: * GetCurrentGprsClass() -> s |
| 23:40.06 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: * SetCurrentGprsClass(s) |
| 23:43.37 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=tim@ppp-88-217-78-189.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 23:44.38 | Gnutoo | anyone? |
| 23:47.00 | kinneh | Gnutoo: I got bt kb |
| 23:47.15 | Gnutoo | kinneh, under qemu? |
| 23:47.29 | kinneh | na on a neo |
| 23:47.46 | Gnutoo | kinneh, how do i enable the keyboard on qemu? |
| 23:48.12 | Gnutoo | kinneh, i tried usb and ps2 keyboard without success...but mabe my kernel doesn't have usbhost support |
| 23:48.48 | *** join/#openmoko apol_ (i=apol@62.57.50.245) |
| 23:48.57 | Gnutoo | is running low on battery |
| 23:49.06 | kinneh | I only used my physical neo |
| 23:49.24 | Gnutoo | kinneh, ok thanks...the problem is that i don't have the freerunner yet |
| 23:49.37 | kinneh | ok |
| 23:49.58 | Gnutoo | because if i had it there was a simple solution: wifi+ssh |
| 23:50.24 | kinneh | hehe |
| 23:50.26 | *** part/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:52.07 | *** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.188.237) |
| 23:58.40 | *** join/#openmoko Dave (n=dave@pool-141-150-11-209.mad.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:58.45 | Dave | How are you gentlemen? |
| 23:59.23 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
