| 00:00.28 | doc|work | I hope it's not smaller, I'm reading pt4 or so sized fonts on the bus on my n800, would like to be able to do the same on phone |
| 00:00.36 | doc|work | e-books++ |
| 00:00.46 | cb22 | small fonts++ |
| 00:00.49 | SpeedEvil | Raster was intimating a larger, but lower res screen. |
| 00:01.01 | SpeedEvil | I don't know if that was merely his wish, or ... |
| 00:01.28 | doc|work | goes all the way and finds a 14inch crt |
| 00:01.48 | cb22 | boo for low res. i say give it 1920x1080 in 3.5 inches |
| 00:02.02 | doc|work | eleventybillion dpi |
| 00:02.07 | doc|work | home time :) |
| 00:06.39 | *** join/#openmoko MrTuttle (n=hklein@i59F75ED8.versanet.de) |
| 00:07.10 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.12 | SpeedEvil | More seriously. |
| 00:08.19 | SpeedEvil | I don't think 285dpi is needed. |
| 00:08.23 | SpeedEvil | 200dpi - yes. |
| 00:08.58 | Dave | heehee |
| 00:09.03 | SpeedEvil | 100dpi just isn't quite enough to cut it on a small screen device, but 285 is too high - you don't get any significant benefit IME over 200 |
| 00:09.03 | Mek | yeah, the 200dpi screen of the n810 is plenty... |
| 00:09.06 | Dave | Hello roh :) |
| 00:09.37 | Dave | and Mek :] |
| 00:09.47 | cb22 | roh: you dont want to take my money :( |
| 00:09.48 | SpeedEvil | A 4" 640*480'd be nice |
| 00:09.53 | *** join/#openmoko Danker (n=tadas@78-61-62-81.static.zebra.lt) |
| 00:10.03 | cb22 | SpeedEvil: isnt that a little big? |
| 00:10.09 | SpeedEvil | cbrake_away: meh |
| 00:10.22 | SpeedEvil | cb22: I want a big screen - to the edges of the device. |
| 00:10.43 | cb22 | depends on the aspect i suppose |
| 00:11.24 | cb22 | a screen covering the entire device would be rather awesome |
| 00:11.32 | Dave | We need a messaging client for fr :P |
| 00:11.41 | cb22 | and i mean the entire front, maybe like a 1mm border |
| 00:12.13 | SpeedEvil | cbrake_away: well - what I'd really like would be a 50/50 keypad/colour screen on the front, and e-ink on the back over the whole back. |
| 00:12.14 | roh | cb22 hm? |
| 00:12.44 | roh | cb22 ran against hitrust error 500? |
| 00:13.01 | roh | thats your bank blocking the transfer propably |
| 00:13.15 | SpeedEvil | Don't suppose anyone can comment on production runs and quantities? |
| 00:13.25 | *** join/#openmoko djp (n=djp@76-10-148-120.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 00:13.43 | cb22 | roh: yep, 4 different banks blocked it :/ |
| 00:13.48 | Dave | :| |
| 00:13.55 | cb22 | i need to call them |
| 00:14.24 | cb22 | roh: i hear things about fic america also selling the freerunner? |
| 00:15.30 | roh | cb22 they are the hub we're using |
| 00:15.47 | cb22 | ah, so it's not like another distributor |
| 00:16.38 | SpeedEvil | Pointless graph of reported stock in shop: http://www.mauve.plus.com/Freerunner.gif |
| 00:17.01 | cb22 | got anything that will work without graphics? |
| 00:17.04 | cb22 | no X here |
| 00:17.21 | Infinyte1 | What kinda 3D stuff can the Freerunner achieve? |
| 00:18.10 | SpeedEvil | cb22: dropping fairly linearly from 400 at 6PM on the 3rd (GMT) to 160 now |
| 00:18.22 | SpeedEvil | Infinyte1: limited |
| 00:18.30 | SpeedEvil | Infinyte1: basically it's unimplemented. |
| 00:18.36 | Infinyte1 | Well I mean |
| 00:18.41 | Infinyte1 | Hardware-wise |
| 00:18.53 | SpeedEvil | Infinyte1: the 3D accel turned out to be not really working very well. It's designed for QVGA. |
| 00:19.02 | cb22 | 512^^2 is the max tex. size |
| 00:19.10 | Infinyte1 | Ah o_O |
| 00:19.21 | cb22 | so all 3d you do has to be less then that, which rules out vga |
| 00:19.52 | cb22 | SpeedEvil: and according to your calculations, when do you think it will go out of stock? |
| 00:20.03 | SpeedEvil | cbrake_away: who knows. However. |
| 00:20.25 | cb22 | however? |
| 00:20.37 | SpeedEvil | cb22: if you go linearly - 17 hours or so from now. |
| 00:20.52 | cb22 | eish |
| 00:21.02 | cb22 | must order one :/ |
| 00:21.08 | cb22 | you getting one SpeedEvil ? |
| 00:21.21 | SpeedEvil | cb22: Taking the steepest part - 11 - and the shallowest part - maybe 24 |
| 00:21.40 | SpeedEvil | cb22: I have at the moment absolutely no spare cash. I had to buy stuff for roof repairs. |
| 00:22.10 | cb22 | ouch :/ |
| 00:22.40 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03roh * r4507 10/trunk/feeds/community-repository/file-index.txt: - add comic reader to repository |
| 00:22.57 | SpeedEvil | cb22: of course, there could be 5000 sitting next to the shop waiting to get checked in. |
| 00:23.23 | cb22 | SpeedEvil: that would be ideal :) |
| 00:23.38 | cb22 | roh: do you have any more info on what steve said about picking up from the factory? |
| 00:23.56 | Dave | heehee |
| 00:25.46 | SpeedEvil | tty: not NiFe. |
| 00:25.47 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 00:26.59 | Infinyte1 | Err, so the graphics accelerator in it doesn't work at all? o_O |
| 00:27.54 | SpeedEvil | Infinyte1: it works - sort-of. |
| 00:28.08 | SpeedEvil | Infinyte1: but the way it works barely compensates for its defects. |
| 00:28.13 | cb22 | theres 2d accel, like xv and the like |
| 00:28.36 | Infinyte1 | Ah, well we ever gonna see some homebrew games and such on it? |
| 00:28.59 | Infinyte1 | Or like, emulators for older consoles perhaps? Assuming you own the console, of course. >_> |
| 00:29.14 | SpeedEvil | You can. |
| 00:29.29 | SpeedEvil | Infinyte1: broadly - QVGA resolution isn't a problem - you can do most anything. |
| 00:29.43 | SpeedEvil | Infinyte1: as long as you're happy with 20fps or so refresh rates. |
| 00:29.55 | SpeedEvil | Infinyte1: VGA is horribly limited. |
| 00:30.58 | Infinyte1 | Interesting. All just curiosity anyways, I'm still gonna be getting one. When I can get the card to validate. :| |
| 00:31.14 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z6fd6.z.pppool.de) |
| 00:31.18 | Infinyte1 | Oh, one thing though. How long till Pidgin or somesuch equivalent gets working on it? |
| 00:31.28 | SpeedEvil | The glamo 2d/3d accel is connected over a 7 megabytes/second bus. This is shared with the SD, and does not support DMA. So if you are writing 3M/second to the display, you lose 40% of the CPU. If you are reading .5M/s from the SD, you lose another 10% |
| 00:31.37 | SpeedEvil | pidgin works now. |
| 00:31.45 | SpeedEvil | I've had it running displaying on the neo. |
| 00:31.46 | Infinyte1 | Ooo, seriously? |
| 00:31.49 | Infinyte1 | Nice. |
| 00:31.57 | Infinyte1 | Any VoiP stuff yet? |
| 00:32.02 | SpeedEvil | Though not running on the neo - I haven't got a working build tree ATM. |
| 00:32.11 | SpeedEvil | VoIP over wifi only. (and no client) |
| 00:32.30 | Infinyte1 | Ah. |
| 00:32.38 | SpeedEvil | GPRS is way too slow for most VOIP - 2s delays. |
| 00:32.59 | cb22 | ptt maybe |
| 00:33.20 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 00:36.20 | bobkare | Hm, is there a projection issue or something with tangoGPS? It consistently shows me being at http://openstreetmap.org/?mlat=59.94431&mlon=10.94357&zoom=16&layers=B00FTF when I'm actually up near Lundåsveien |
| 00:40.26 | zash | bobkare: go somewhere, and check if there is a static offset |
| 00:41.17 | bobkare | it seems like it is (though I've not travelled far) |
| 00:41.40 | zedstar | u sure u not been drinking? |
| 00:41.55 | zash | bobkare: try getting raw position data from somewhere |
| 00:42.12 | zash | or, some other mapping program |
| 00:42.23 | bobkare | yeah, trying to find the script to convert the logfile to something sensible now |
| 00:44.22 | *** part/#openmoko ConfidentiaL (n=anders@79.160.97.102) |
| 00:44.42 | *** join/#openmoko Pjj_ (n=Pjj@107-143-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 00:45.54 | bobkare | zash: It logs the same data it displays. I'll go collect some raw nmea then |
| 00:47.39 | bobkare | Uh, how can I start something that dumps from /dev/ttySAC1 to a file in the OM terminal? The keyboard has neither > nor = |
| 00:47.47 | bobkare | (afaics) |
| 00:49.57 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-144-137-197-243.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 00:52.58 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@c-76-105-93-212.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 00:53.43 | bobkare | nm, I just started it nohupped from an ssh session before going outside |
| 00:54.23 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja (n=zefanja@drsd-4dbcb67c.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 00:56.53 | bobkare | zash: dumping nmea gives me just about a correct position (typical gps performance) |
| 01:27.34 | Qwell | SpeedEvil: where were you seeing the availability? |
| 01:27.37 | Qwell | (of stock) |
| 01:27.41 | tunys | has quit ("No real reason") |
| 01:27.46 | cb22 | Qwell: he's using 1337 haxxors |
| 01:28.02 | cb22 | IIRC, he enters like 1000 to buy, and then it says there are only x left |
| 01:28.23 | Qwell | seriously? |
| 01:28.51 | Qwell | ahh, guess so |
| 01:29.26 | Dave | argh, it'd be so nice if to have a rotate ability |
| 01:29.40 | Qwell | so, 157 |
| 01:32.44 | roh | cb22 picking up at the factory? in china? |
| 01:33.05 | cb22 | roh: in Fremont, but michaels email answered my question |
| 01:33.16 | roh | dunno anything about that. heard something about picking ones up in fremont, but thats something michael or steve would know |
| 01:33.20 | Dave | haha |
| 01:33.26 | Dave | it's a bit of a drive, don't you think? :P |
| 01:33.30 | Dave | (and a boat ride) |
| 01:34.15 | cb22 | not from mountain view |
| 01:34.32 | *** join/#openmoko troy_ (n=troy@156.34.176.14) |
| 01:34.32 | Dave | to china? |
| 01:34.39 | cb22 | to fremont |
| 01:34.56 | Dave | oh snaps, you're in mv? :D |
| 01:35.04 | cb22 | not quite |
| 01:35.18 | Dave | oh, well, stop by in PA sometime if you want to do lunch :D |
| 01:35.23 | cb22 | actully, i'm going to be staying in sunnydale |
| 01:35.36 | cb22 | visiting google's hq :D |
| 01:35.44 | Dave | hahaha |
| 01:35.47 | Dave | sunnyvale ftl |
| 01:36.04 | cb22 | damn this eee keyboard |
| 01:36.05 | Dave | though yeah visit teh goog |
| 01:36.08 | Dave | hahaha hot |
| 01:36.17 | Dave | I was thinking of buying one |
| 01:36.17 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-144-137-197-243.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 01:36.20 | *** join/#openmoko cdm (n=cdm@pool-71-116-87-174.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 01:36.25 | Dave | the *new* one... |
| 01:36.38 | cb22 | actually they are paying for me :p << a grand prize winner from ghop |
| 01:36.41 | cdm | afternoonish |
| 01:37.00 | Dave | heh |
| 01:37.09 | cb22 | interestingly enough, we're having a talk on android |
| 01:37.14 | Dave | :P |
| 01:37.24 | cb22 | so i want to have a freerunner there |
| 01:37.24 | Dave | coincidental? I think not! *shifty-eyed look* |
| 01:37.25 | cdm | mmm, Android |
| 01:37.43 | cb22 | Dave: you said you had a few freerunners, any chance of selling one? |
| 01:38.01 | Dave | No, sorry. |
| 01:38.17 | Dave | Perhaps one, eventually (after I'm done with it) |
| 01:38.38 | cb22 | aw, ok. i need to figure out a way to get one. i'm there from the 9th -> 13th, and an worried that i might miss it |
| 01:38.52 | Dave | Oh! |
| 01:38.55 | Dave | I see. |
| 01:40.24 | cb22 | and shipping to south africa is $140, so i'm not planning on getting it that way |
| 01:40.52 | Dave | o_o |
| 01:41.09 | Qwell | I wish the store took paypal |
| 01:41.13 | cb22 | not to mention $50 of tax, and the fact that it'll probably be stolen by customs |
| 01:41.29 | Dave | yeah, gg |
| 01:41.35 | Dave | so, fuck that :) |
| 01:41.51 | cb22 | the best would be if steve could organize something at fremont |
| 01:42.02 | Dave | Perhaps |
| 01:42.13 | cb22 | perhaps? |
| 01:42.40 | Dave | I don't know, talk to Steve! |
| 01:43.03 | Dave | perhaps create a little incentive, I don't know :P |
| 01:43.29 | cb22 | yeah, there was a recent email on the ml about it. amazingly enough my mentor from the project i did work for also wants to get one |
| 01:43.44 | Dave | heh :P |
| 01:43.46 | Dave | I'm sure MANY do |
| 01:44.01 | cb22 | out of the 30 people, we are the only 2 :( |
| 01:44.12 | Dave | lame |
| 01:46.25 | Dave | haha, man I wish the phone had a better browser |
| 01:46.32 | Dave | or at least lynx |
| 01:47.10 | cb22 | compile it then |
| 01:47.14 | cb22 | elinks ftw |
| 01:47.21 | Dave | pfft |
| 01:47.29 | Dave | modernization my ass :p |
| 01:52.43 | Dave | meanwhile, there is no way of entering text into browser fields -_-; |
| 02:00.40 | *** part/#openmoko pabs3 (n=pabs@d122-105-78-204.per9.wa.optusnet.com.au) |
| 02:01.59 | Arg0naut | does anyone know when a freerunner bought last night will be shipped? |
| 02:02.14 | Arg0naut | from the webstore |
| 02:11.55 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=ufo@host86-132-96-196.range86-132.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 02:22.43 | *** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@i59F75ED8.versanet.de) |
| 02:27.59 | GirlRiver | I am trying to get the austo emulation for MokoMakeFile running in Ubuntu Hardy and when I try to get the MokoMakeFile from http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile I get error message ... no route to host. Can someone give me the correct address ? |
| 02:28.40 | rwhitby | GirlRiver: yes, my site is down at the moment. The MokoMakefile wiki page has an alternate location which will work |
| 02:29.15 | rwhitby | http://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile |
| 02:30.42 | *** join/#openmoko _newbie3 (n=kvirc@dslb-084-063-039-002.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 02:34.22 | GirlRiver | rwhitby: thank you ... |
| 02:39.45 | *** join/#openmoko fgau_ (n=fgau@tmo-100-2.customers.d1-online.com) |
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| 03:00.37 | root | ~/sb end |
| 03:00.41 | root | argh |
| 03:01.12 | *** join/#openmoko lzy-- (n=lzy@59-126-117-54.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 03:07.11 | *** join/#openmoko jeffszusz (n=jeffsz@d57-109-198.home.cgocable.net) |
| 03:07.28 | jeffszusz | heyyyy |
| 03:07.36 | jeffszusz | i see the Freerunner is released |
| 03:07.50 | jeffszusz | is it actually working? does it make calls reliably? |
| 03:08.08 | *** join/#openmoko fgau_ (n=fgau@tmo-108-2.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 03:09.22 | SpeedEvil | The software is in a state of flux |
| 03:09.26 | SpeedEvil | So not really. |
| 03:09.33 | jeffszusz | hmm |
| 03:09.44 | jeffszusz | so it's still very much a "hobbiest" phoneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
| 03:09.50 | SpeedEvil | You can with effort get a working software stack |
| 03:09.50 | jeffszusz | woops, sorry about the e's |
| 03:09.54 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 03:10.09 | SpeedEvil | It's absolutely not mass market |
| 03:10.28 | jeffszusz | i have a NON-linux using friend who is trying to decide between OpenMoko and a Symbian or Nokia N-Series |
| 03:10.47 | SpeedEvil | Ok - avoid OM for the moment |
| 03:10.52 | SpeedEvil | It's certainly not ready. |
| 03:10.58 | jeffszusz | i suspected so |
| 03:13.09 | jeffszusz | thanks for the clarification |
| 03:13.34 | SpeedEvil | Wish I could say otherwise, but it's not ready yet :( |
| 03:14.21 | *** join/#openmoko Tanuva (n=tanuva@e177228172.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 03:15.39 | *** join/#openmoko ieatlint (n=ieatlint@adsl-71-141-108-211.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
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| 03:25.17 | jeffszusz | i'm stuck with a CDMA network until february anyway... by the time i can switch to a GSM provider i'm sure OpenMoko will be ready ;) |
| 03:26.17 | wastrel | gsm you say |
| 03:26.36 | jeffszusz | yes i do say |
| 03:26.51 | wastrel | i don't know anything about cellular. |
| 03:27.04 | jeffszusz | GSM is the kind of network the Neo will work on |
| 03:27.06 | *** join/#openmoko Tsingi (n=tsingi@CPE000d8803ff13-CM00195eefbbb8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 03:27.17 | wastrel | is it available in the US? |
| 03:27.20 | linuxxr | 155 |
| 03:27.20 | jeffszusz | it's the global standard...but the US and Canada are more entrenched in a network that uses CDMA technology. |
| 03:27.39 | jeffszusz | wastrel: you can get GSM in the US from AT&T and T-Mobile. everyone else is CDMA or ADMA |
| 03:28.37 | troy_ | anyone know where bitbake checks md5 sums from? I'm trying to build poky and keeps giving errors saying md5s dont match... :( |
| 03:29.50 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=ufo@host86-132-96-196.range86-132.btcentralplus.com) |
| 03:30.54 | Dave | hmm, are all the media players highly experimental? :p |
| 03:34.08 | jeffszusz | i think EVERYTHING on openmoko is highly experimental at this stage |
| 03:34.18 | jeffszusz | even phonecalls |
| 03:38.12 | Dave | haha, true enough |
| 03:38.24 | Dave | though actually I haven't had any problems with calls at all |
| 03:38.28 | Dave | :P |
| 03:38.45 | jeffszusz | you will if you install a media player....*cough* |
| 03:38.47 | jeffszusz | j/k, i have no idea |
| 03:38.49 | jeffszusz | i don't have one yet |
| 03:38.56 | Dave | :D |
| 03:39.17 | *** join/#openmoko JonCruz (n=joncruz@adsl-76-232-123-137.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 03:59.49 | *** part/#openmoko Tsingi (n=tsingi@CPE000d8803ff13-CM00195eefbbb8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
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| 04:04.15 | macdonalder | doc|home: reply sent ;) |
| 04:04.24 | macdonalder | in short, yes, still interested |
| 04:04.46 | doc|home | macdonalder: excellent |
| 04:05.08 | doc|home | macdonalder: going to give him until tomorrow morning to reply. That fair enough? |
| 04:05.17 | macdonalder | yup, that's fine |
| 04:05.29 | doc|home | macdonalder: where in vancouver are you? |
| 04:06.00 | macdonalder | 16th & dunbar-ish |
| 04:07.28 | doc|home | ok, will give you a shout at about 11am tomorrow (if I'm awake :) ) and we can meet up during the day if that suits you |
| 04:07.37 | *** join/#openmoko Railer (n=Railer@S0106001839c24abd.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 04:07.42 | doc|home | hey Railer |
| 04:07.57 | Railer | hey |
| 04:07.58 | Dave | What's shakin' old man? |
| 04:08.00 | macdonalder | oh ok... were you looking to get money then? |
| 04:08.15 | macdonalder | is a little in the dark as to the details |
| 04:08.28 | Railer | Everything is shaking, some things are falling off.... |
| 04:08.37 | doc|home | macdonalder: if you don't mind, I'm transferring the money for the last couple of days (slow process :/) to my credit card but not ordering until I've been mostly covered. |
| 04:08.56 | doc|home | have one phone worth left to be paid |
| 04:09.46 | Railer | so UPS air will cover brokerage, just call them when the package is in the air tell them what's on it and you canprepay the duty/gst, and you're golden |
| 04:10.00 | Railer | Alberta's 10 ordered today |
| 04:10.06 | doc|home | yey! :) |
| 04:10.15 | doc|home | Railer: do you get a tracking code? |
| 04:10.35 | Railer | So anyone know what games come default on this biatch? |
| 04:10.38 | doc|home | Railer: and can you go into a UPS office and pay or does it have to be over the phone? |
| 04:10.51 | Railer | I'm sure either |
| 04:10.53 | macdonalder | doc|home: how much are we talking? |
| 04:11.04 | Railer | gst on 4000 |
| 04:11.17 | doc|home | macdonalder: the phone is 369.99 (iirc) + gst + delivery (113/10) |
| 04:11.29 | Railer | Dave! |
| 04:11.33 | doc|home | macdonalder: so I'm looking for 400 up front and we can sort the rest afterwards |
| 04:11.43 | macdonalder | alright |
| 04:11.43 | doc|home | then my own liability is limited :) |
| 04:11.53 | *** join/#openmoko Tsingi (n=tsingi@CPE000d8803ff13-CM00195eefbbb8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 04:11.53 | macdonalder | haha yeah, that's reasonable |
| 04:12.01 | Railer | Dave! |
| 04:12.30 | Railer | what games come on this thing stock people! I need to know! |
| 04:12.40 | doc|home | Railer: not very many, if any |
| 04:12.52 | Railer | I want cribbage and nethack |
| 04:12.55 | doc|home | Railer: they can't get power management nor calls stable, you think they're going to worry about games? :) |
| 04:13.05 | doc|home | Railer: then get hacking :) |
| 04:13.34 | Railer | this thing will make call right? we can hope for that right? |
| 04:13.51 | doc|home | maybe :) |
| 04:14.24 | Railer | why am a worried I'm buying a $400 open source brick? |
| 04:14.56 | doc|home | because it's only a very temporary brick |
| 04:14.58 | linuxxr | write the dang code |
| 04:15.26 | Railer | i'm gonna help with the getting started guide project |
| 04:15.44 | macdonalder | feeds the code monkeys |
| 04:16.04 | linuxxr | that is what i need |
| 04:16.14 | Dave | a bunch of crappy games |
| 04:16.15 | Railer | slide the pizza in under the door ONLY AFTER the code comes out, |
| 04:16.21 | Dave | hehe |
| 04:16.27 | Dave | I'd rather take a decent media player |
| 04:16.29 | doc|home | do NOT open that door! |
| 04:16.30 | *** join/#openmoko DarkFox (n=jd@modemcable213.6-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 04:16.32 | Railer | So how old is everyone here? |
| 04:16.42 | linuxxr | the door is open |
| 04:16.55 | doc|home | Dave: then do :) I'm considering porting an mpd client to it |
| 04:17.07 | doc|home | and my python is non-existant |
| 04:17.12 | doc|home | must get a python book |
| 04:17.34 | Railer | for god sakes! never let your monkeies see day light, they'll burst into flames! |
| 04:17.36 | wastrel | python? |
| 04:17.37 | macdonalder | mpd would be great |
| 04:17.55 | Railer | yes python, we code with snakes |
| 04:18.21 | Railer | there are lots on line |
| 04:18.38 | Dave | :P |
| 04:18.43 | Dave | *hisssssssssss* |
| 04:18.46 | doc|home | wastrel: yeah, afaik the client I want to use is done in python |
| 04:18.59 | Railer | Dave! how old are you? me 40\ |
| 04:19.21 | doc|home | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:20.19 | macdonalder | heh, I use it hooked up to icecast to listen to music at work |
| 04:20.34 | doc|home | nice :) |
| 04:21.03 | doc|home | I just copied my music onto my mp3 player and copied it onto my work machine :) |
| 04:21.07 | doc|home | waves to the RIAA |
| 04:22.17 | Dave | :D |
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| 04:36.07 | Railer | what the hell is everyone doing? |
| 04:36.26 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178060157.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 04:38.44 | linuxxr | 148 |
| 04:38.57 | linuxxr | warning-fail |
| 04:39.03 | macdonalder | playing with openembedded |
| 04:39.49 | linuxxr | gettin a error code at the store |
| 04:41.11 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 04:41.41 | linuxxr | 146 left |
| 04:42.02 | linuxxr | proly till august |
| 04:46.37 | Railer | linuxxr, you programming anything on for FR? |
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| 04:54.46 | Dave | :\ |
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| 04:58.59 | Railer | :\ |
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| 05:01.26 | iratsu | is the freerunner's microSD slot sdhc compliant? |
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| 05:04.07 | macdonalder | iratsu: I believe it is |
| 05:04.28 | macdonalder | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards |
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| 05:14.36 | Dave | old macdonald |
| 05:14.42 | Dave | old mcrailer |
| 05:15.01 | ferric | hiya Da |
| 05:15.04 | ferric | ve |
| 05:15.21 | Dave | Hello ferric :P |
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| 05:23.22 | Railer | hey i just figured out the whole emulator thang! well I now have a project for the weekend! |
| 05:30.35 | Dave | Hooray! |
| 05:31.12 | *** join/#openmoko KrisAbsinthe (n=KrisAbsi@cpe-24-210-164-205.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 05:31.24 | KrisAbsinthe | anyone around |
| 05:31.51 | rtm | Yup. |
| 05:31.59 | Railer | anyone want to tell me what ubuntu version will qemu work with best? |
| 05:32.18 | Railer | Dave is here but he's hiding |
| 05:32.31 | KrisAbsinthe | having troubles with gllin. get bad magic |
| 05:32.43 | macdonalder | I've had it running with 7.10 but I haven't tried with 8.04 |
| 05:33.01 | KrisAbsinthe | when ipkg install gllin...ipkg |
| 05:34.13 | Railer | macdonalder, so what do i need to write python for this thing? and if i write a successful program do I need the dboard to install it live or could i just load it in? |
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| 05:50.40 | KrisAbsinthe | about the topic; the battery life, so is OM going to release another crap ass model? |
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| 06:18.51 | goodwill | KrisAbsinthe: not its actually kernel related... |
| 06:18.59 | goodwill | KrisAbsinthe: you seem to be a ray of sunshine |
| 06:21.35 | KrisAbsinthe | lol, just tired of my device being un usable, i bought my gta01 before we knew about the gsm 850 limitations |
| 06:22.05 | KrisAbsinthe | do you know what kernel I will need for gllin, need a GPS for HOPE |
| 06:22.31 | goodwill | no idea |
| 06:23.26 | roh | gllin as it is on 3rdparty.downloads.om.org uses a wrapper which makes normal kernels usable |
| 06:23.49 | mmontour | The only gllin/kernel interaction is that the power-control files in /sys were renamed at some point, but the current kernel should have symlinks so that either name will work |
| 06:24.05 | KrisAbsinthe | ive flashed like 10 times and every time the gllin returns bad magic durring ipkg install |
| 06:24.20 | roh | gllin should never have done power control itself. sequencing is done by the kernel |
| 06:24.37 | roh | sure you downloaded the ipkg and not an html-error? |
| 06:24.42 | KrisAbsinthe | gllin *should* have been open source |
| 06:24.45 | mmontour | Check that your gllin ipkg is actually an ipkg. Sometimes your browser will download a copy of the EULA instead. |
| 06:24.46 | roh | use your browser to download |
| 06:25.06 | KrisAbsinthe | yeah even did a microSD transfer from my desktop |
| 06:25.08 | roh | KrisAbsinthe that was not our place to decide in the beginning |
| 06:25.22 | KrisAbsinthe | i know, stupid closed vendors |
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| 06:27.20 | KrisAbsinthe | one thing im worried about is future development for the GTA01 now that the 02 is available |
| 06:27.57 | goodwill | KrisAbsinthe: well the images are being compiled for both so far |
| 06:28.21 | CM | Haven't worked very good with my gta01 lately |
| 06:28.44 | kamisamanou | I was wondering what service providers some of you were using? |
| 06:28.47 | CM | And I guess there's a risk they will get too big for the flash |
| 06:28.54 | mmontour | I don't really mind that gllin is closed-source. What I really wanted was a datasheet for the hardware. |
| 06:28.56 | KrisAbsinthe | At&T |
| 06:29.49 | KrisAbsinthe | Ill be happy if i can get gllin to work again |
| 06:30.25 | kamisamanou | KrisAbsinthe: To what extent do you use email, web, and such and is there a particular package your using that seems to be a good deal? |
| 06:31.44 | KrisAbsinthe | on the smart phone I have(blackjack) i use everything, so AT&T has an unlimited package, for 5 phones i pay 160 a month |
| 06:32.28 | lindi- | gta02 doesn't need gillin, right? |
| 06:32.37 | mmontour | right. |
| 06:33.06 | *** join/#openmoko carrar (i=tim@osburn.com) |
| 06:33.14 | lindi- | just checking, i ordered it three days ago :) |
| 06:33.14 | carrar | ok hightrust is broked |
| 06:33.46 | rtm | carrar: In what way is Hi Trust broken? |
| 06:33.47 | kamisamanou | Krisabsinthe: So would you recommend using a mainstream phone and the freerunner together over just the freerunner? |
| 06:33.59 | Hoolxi | is there any application support music playback, which can be installed in GTA02 |
| 06:34.00 | carrar | it gave me some error after wanting more info |
| 06:34.09 | KrisAbsinthe | I would just use the freerunner if i had one |
| 06:34.13 | carrar | very none descript error |
| 06:34.16 | carrar | like "error" |
| 06:34.20 | rtm | carrar: Was it Gateway Error 500? |
| 06:34.24 | carrar | yes |
| 06:34.24 | KrisAbsinthe | hell id use just my gta01 if i was not exiled to a GSM 850 area |
| 06:35.02 | goodwill | hmmm |
| 06:35.10 | rtm | carrar: I got that error because my credit card bank was blocking the transaction because transactions from Taiwan looked suspicious to it. |
| 06:35.31 | carrar | they need a american processing company |
| 06:35.35 | kamisamanou | Kris...: Yeah, I know what you mean. |
| 06:35.35 | carrar | for american orders |
| 06:35.39 | rtm | carrar: I called my bank, told the to let the transaction go through, and I no longer got the error 500. |
| 06:35.57 | carrar | did you have to go through the whole order process again? |
| 06:36.02 | KrisAbsinthe | I have been trying to sell my 01 to help pay for the freerunner |
| 06:36.02 | carrar | or just call the bank? |
| 06:37.23 | rtm | I had to place the order again. I got a confirmation email from Openmoko after the entire process was complete, so I'm ppretty ssure everything worked. |
| 06:37.43 | lindi- | KrisAbsinthe: sell it to somebody in 900 area? |
| 06:37.51 | carrar | thanks, calling my bank now |
| 06:37.52 | roh | carrar the point is not processing. its where the money goes. and om is not a company in the us or eu |
| 06:38.35 | KrisAbsinthe | trying, going to ebay soon if i can get this gllin to work, just need a GPS for hope in two weeks |
| 06:39.27 | mmontour | KrisAbsinthe: if you can't install the package with ipkg, you can extract the contents with "ar x gllin_whatever.ipk" - this will give a "data.tar.gz" with the actual files (same as a .deb) |
| 06:40.23 | KrisAbsinthe | yeah, i tryed that and got something like lib.so something when i ./gllin ill try again and post results |
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| 06:41.06 | carrar | ok trying again |
| 06:41.08 | mmontour | You should have the actual binary as /home/root/gllin/gllin.real, with /home/root/gllin/gllin as a bash wrapper script |
| 06:41.10 | goodwill | has anyone build gta02 images useing mokomakefile |
| 06:41.22 | goodwill | I only seem to able to build gta01 ones |
| 06:41.47 | goodwill | hmmm |
| 06:41.58 | goodwill | maybe that setup-machine-gta02 |
| 06:42.42 | kamisamanou | Here's another question that I have: The GTA01 I understood was kind of beta, and not ready for prime time. Is the 02 full fledged mainstream? |
| 06:43.15 | KrisAbsinthe | attempt one was opkg install gllin_1.0\+r350-r0_fic-gta01.ipk |
| 06:43.15 | KrisAbsinthe | opkg: invalid magic obviously failed |
| 06:43.36 | lindi- | kamisamanou: gta02 is definitely not for an average consumer yet afaik |
| 06:44.06 | mmontour | what's the md5sum of that .ipk? |
| 06:44.28 | KrisAbsinthe | 56c808877cafe9a5ddf309c6b9c04578 |
| 06:44.58 | KrisAbsinthe | can opkg extract packages |
| 06:45.11 | mmontour | different than what I have - mine's 2019d71f... (but same filename) |
| 06:45.24 | kamisamanou | lindi: What is really the major showstopper? |
| 06:45.46 | mmontour | what's the file size? Mine is 1976050 bytes |
| 06:45.52 | KrisAbsinthe | hmm, just a sec |
| 06:45.53 | carrar | w00t |
| 06:45.54 | carrar | ok |
| 06:45.56 | carrar | all good |
| 06:46.06 | rtm | goodie! |
| 06:46.19 | lindi- | kamisamanou: i am still waiting for my device so i don't have personal experience |
| 06:46.36 | lindi- | kamisamanou: but i understood that the software is still very much in development |
| 06:46.48 | KrisAbsinthe | 1976050 bytes |
| 06:47.04 | goodwill | it seems mokomakefile differintiates between gta02 and freerunner |
| 06:47.10 | goodwill | anyone know why |
| 06:47.22 | kamisamanou | lindi: thanks |
| 06:47.26 | paulproteus | goodwill, Seemed to me it treated the same. |
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| 06:48.20 | goodwill | paulproteus: yeah...I see the .PHONY |
| 06:48.21 | KrisAbsinthe | seems im getting a different md5 on my laptop than on the neo |
| 06:48.28 | lindi- | kamisamanou: but if you know gnu/linux and its enough that basic things work and you want to help out then it might be for you if i understood it right |
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| 06:48.59 | paulproteus | What's the fix for a GTA01 with a drained battery, again? |
| 06:49.10 | paulproteus | I have had it hooked up to a computer for the past 24h and it doesn't seem to turn on still. |
| 06:49.14 | kamisamanou | Does anyone know how well the phones(01/02) interact with a linux system. e.g. calendar & contacts management? |
| 06:49.17 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar_ (n=xamindar@32.155.114.42) |
| 06:49.21 | carrar | now to get it to switch to sip/asterisk when at home on the wifi |
| 06:49.38 | mmontour | unplug usb, remove battery for 10s, replace battery, plug in usb, wait an hour or so without pressing any buttons |
| 06:49.46 | rtm | paulproteus: Leave the battery out of the unit for an hour or more, then recharge. |
| 06:49.54 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-22-144.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 06:50.48 | paulproteus | tries mmontour's strategy (-: |
| 06:50.59 | paulproteus | Do you guys know if GTA02 has the same annoyance? |
| 06:51.16 | paulproteus | It seems like it would be useful to unconditionally wake up the Neo every 1h to see if the battery is close to dead, and if it is, just power off. |
| 06:52.30 | goodwill | does anyone have bash-completion for make? |
| 06:53.04 | paulproteus | goodwill, Yeah, Debian includes in /etc/bash_completion. |
| 06:54.21 | goodwill | ah, got it |
| 06:54.42 | goodwill | paulproteus: I use gentoo, but that gave the right push |
| 06:54.51 | paulproteus | Great (-: |
| 06:57.03 | rtm | I have done a trivial port of the x48 HP calculator emulator, to make it run on the neo1973. The port was trivial, because all I had to do was re-arrange the display to make it fit in a VGA screen. |
| 06:57.16 | kamisamanou | why can't battery life be discussed.....that little sentence up there is harassing my curiosity. |
| 06:57.20 | goodwill | kamisamanou: I believe the contacts stuff right now uses evolution-dataserver |
| 06:57.32 | goodwill | kamisamanou: so it should be fine...but I could be wrong |
| 06:57.33 | rtm | It doesn't seem worthwhile to define a project for that, since my changes were trivial. |
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| 06:57.53 | rtm | How should I make it available for anyone else who wants to use it? |
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| 06:58.28 | kamisamanou | goodwill:thanks |
| 06:58.39 | lindi- | rtm: has upstream accepted your fixes? |
| 06:59.20 | rtm | Upsteam seems unresponsive - the code may have been abandoned. I son't know how long I should wait to hear from the original authors. |
| 06:59.45 | rtm | opps, don't, not son't |
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| 07:06.39 | mmontour | paulproteus: gta02 should be able to boot from USB power even if it has a discharged battery. However there are currently some bugs in that area - see the kernel ML. |
| 07:06.56 | paulproteus | mmontour, The linux kernel ML? |
| 07:07.03 | mmontour | openmoko-kernel |
| 07:07.04 | paulproteus | Or some OM kernel list? |
| 07:07.08 | paulproteus | Oh, /me joins it |
| 07:08.17 | paulproteus | mmontour, Do you happen to know if it's possible (yet?) to schedule wake-ups from sleep? |
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| 07:08.49 | lindi- | rtm: right, hp-71 emulator would be cool but i am not sure if hp actually open sourced it all |
| 07:08.59 | mmontour | I don't know. |
| 07:09.18 | paulproteus | Duly noted. |
| 07:10.16 | ieatlint | lol, i just got the message from the announce list that the store is open |
| 07:10.49 | mmontour | I got it about 4 hours ago |
| 07:10.53 | rtm | Well, I've got the HP48G emulator working. The ROM images aren't technically free, but HP has consented to them being made available on the web. |
| 07:11.53 | rtm | It sure beats the default OM calculator. |
| 07:12.15 | mmontour | cool. I wonder if I can find any of my old HP48SX programs... |
| 07:13.06 | rtm | If you've got the ROM image for a 48SX (you can find it on the web) this emulator will do that model too. It will emulate any of the 48 series. |
| 07:13.06 | lindi- | 'The HP-71B was designed as an open machine. HP made available detailed documentation which described OS information (including full source code), file formats, how to create BASIC extensions, etc.' |
| 07:13.33 | lindi- | but that doesn't unfortunately say anything about distributing or changing the source |
| 07:14.58 | goodwill | from .object import Object |
| 07:15.05 | mmontour | I don't have a ROM image yet. I did have an actual 48SX but it died many years ago. I may still have a backup somewhere on my PC |
| 07:15.12 | goodwill | is the . before object a python 2.5 syntax |
| 07:15.42 | rtm | I uploaded a screen shot of it running on the neo1973. You can see it under recent changes on the Wiki if you're interested. |
| 07:17.18 | mmontour | Oh, right, the 48G changed to the ugly colors. Apart from that it looks nice. |
| 07:17.39 | goodwill | cause according to this http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/#guido-s-decision |
| 07:17.47 | goodwill | its should be in 2.4 too |
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| 07:23.53 | kamisamanou | I've been reading some faqs and was inspired with this quesion. If the Neo charges via usb will it charge with a wall plug to usb converter similar to what is made for iPods? |
| 07:24.34 | Infinyte1 | I second that question. |
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| 07:29.00 | mbuf | kamisamanou, AFAIK, they already ship the device with a USB-wall charger |
| 07:29.23 | Infinyte1 | Err, ah right. |
| 07:29.24 | Infinyte1 | >_> |
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| 07:41.03 | kamisamanou | mbuf: thanks |
| 07:41.22 | mbuf | kamisamanou, np |
| 07:41.35 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:42.14 | kamisamanou | btw, after 10 years of using the internet, im, chat, etc. I finally figured out AFAIK is As Far As I Know. |
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| 07:42.47 | Infinyte1 | Woah, that's what it means? |
| 07:43.11 | Infinyte1 | ... Why's there a 1 after my name? |
| 07:43.19 | Infinyte | There. |
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| 07:45.10 | TAsn | Infinyte, you had it for the last 12hrs ;0 |
| 07:46.12 | Infinyte | Well it's in like, dark blue. On a dark grey background. So I couldn't read it well. And I just now was looking really close at my computer whislt scrolling Eve Online and noticed it when checking the chat. >_> |
| 07:46.52 | TAsn | yeah yeah... ;) |
| 07:47.07 | Infinyte | >_> What's a CTCP? |
| 07:47.10 | TAsn | well, im off again. |
| 07:47.26 | Infinyte | Seeya. |
| 07:47.53 | TAsn | Infinyte, don't know what the acronym means, though it is used for probing info, for instance, ctcp version, checks what is your irc client |
| 07:48.05 | Infinyte | Ah I see. |
| 07:48.12 | TAsn | more correctly asks, you client doesn't have to answer... |
| 07:48.42 | Infinyte | I'm on Pidgin. 2.4.2. I think 2.4.3 is out, I should go snatch it. |
| 07:49.08 | pabs3 | Infinyte: indeed, .3 fixes a security bug |
| 07:49.37 | TAsn | pabs3, im not sure about that, i think it only fixes the icq protocol version. |
| 07:49.41 | TAsn | well cya. |
| 07:49.56 | Infinyte | I kinda wish Miranda was still multiplatform. :< |
| 07:49.58 | Infinyte | Seeya. |
| 07:50.33 | pabs3 | TAsn: debian changelog says it fixes an MSN integer overflow security issue CVE-2008-2927 |
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| 08:00.22 | KrisAbsinthe | can the latest kernel read FAT |
| 08:00.48 | Infinyte | Why would you want it to read your mom? |
| 08:00.50 | Infinyte | Oooo burn. |
| 08:00.53 | Infinyte | <_< Just kidding. |
| 08:00.58 | KrisAbsinthe | funny |
| 08:01.01 | Infinyte | Sorry, it's late. ^^; |
| 08:01.06 | KrisAbsinthe | no problem |
| 08:01.16 | KrisAbsinthe | it was unexpected at least |
| 08:02.03 | Infinyte | Yay. :D But uhh, unfortunately I don't know the answer to your question. I would assume so though, since lots of USB thumb drives's are still in FAT.. I think. |
| 08:02.18 | rtm | Yo' momma's such a nerd she use bitbake to cook dinner! |
| 08:02.51 | KrisAbsinthe | having troubles converting my 2gb microSD to ext3. messes up the superblocks |
| 08:05.22 | flexd | wtf, my fr still cant get a fix on GPS :/ |
| 08:05.26 | flexd | (non assited) |
| 08:05.29 | flexd | assisted* |
| 08:05.59 | flexd | I am inside though, but i had it outside for like 40minutes and still got no fix earlier :/ |
| 08:06.18 | KrisAbsinthe | cant help with the FR sorry |
| 08:06.22 | flexd | It's like it almosts gets there, but still spamming "unknown msg*58" -_- |
| 08:07.47 | flexd | KrisAbsinthe: haven't tried it |
| 08:07.47 | flexd | ? |
| 08:09.10 | AVee | KrisAbsinthe: Did you use fdisk first to create the partion? |
| 08:09.48 | AVee | had a USB stick one which horribly messed up, recreating the partiontable fixed that. |
| 08:12.45 | pabs3 | is FAT a good idea on SD cards? wouldn't you use JFFS2 or LogFS or something? |
| 08:13.29 | *** join/#openmoko alexxy (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171) |
| 08:16.53 | *** join/#openmoko wolog_ (n=wolog@AOrleans-152-1-48-54.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 08:39.16 | mjr | pabs3, SD does its own block-level wear-leveling so adding another level of leveling wouldn't do much good |
| 08:39.26 | pabs3 | ah, ok |
| 08:39.40 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178000063.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 08:41.23 | rtm | mjr: Is one garaunteed that any SD card does wear-leveling? I had heard that some cheap ones did not. |
| 08:42.21 | mjr | I thought that applied mostly to USB sticks |
| 08:43.41 | mjr | anyway, it is part of the spec, and wasit speedevil who once indicated that the leveling would actually be done by the controller and not the card itself |
| 08:43.51 | mjr | but I'm not sure of that myself |
| 08:44.58 | *** join/#openmoko Railer (n=Railer@S0106001839c24abd.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 08:45.33 | *** join/#openmoko Renault (n=Renault@AToulon-151-1-3-120.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:45.42 | Railer | so how weak are the batteries? |
| 08:47.02 | mjr | 1200mAh |
| 08:48.14 | Railer | ya but waht's that gonna get me 1 hour? 2? or just across the parking lot? |
| 08:48.59 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 08:49.15 | rtm | Railer: I can run tangogps for ~4 hours on my neo1973, and it is a big CPU hog. |
| 08:49.22 | mjr | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_%28GTA02%29_Battery |
| 08:49.32 | Railer | no worries then |
| 08:50.40 | Railer | it's fine for that big a system |
| 08:50.56 | Railer | how is tangogps? |
| 08:51.33 | rtm | Railer: tangogps is quite nice - but it just displayes maps and tracks. It does not have the ability to plan routes. |
| 08:52.15 | Railer | hey sounds find to me and it calculate speed and ETA? |
| 08:52.27 | rtm | You can preload map tiles, so that your moko doesn';t need to have a network connection in order to display your position on the map. |
| 08:52.56 | rtm | Speed yes, ETA no. But it's opensource! Add what you want to it! |
| 08:53.11 | mjr | eta would mostly make sense if you had the routing thing |
| 08:53.25 | mbuf | rtm, try navit.sf.net ? |
| 08:53.34 | Railer | what maps just europe or NA too? |
| 08:53.36 | mjr | routing would be nice to add to it though, but yeah, there's other things like navit |
| 08:53.58 | mjr | it uses Openstreetmap per default |
| 08:54.10 | rtm | mjr: Yes, that would be best, but the low end Garmin units, for example, do ETA without route finding. THey just use the component of you velocity in the direction of the destination. |
| 08:54.11 | mjr | so whatever they have so far, and if they don't you can add it :þ |
| 08:54.52 | rtm | mbuf: No, I've never heard of that. |
| 08:54.57 | mjr | you can configure it to use other map sources, but this may go against their acceptable use policies |
| 08:55.09 | Railer | cool |
| 08:55.19 | Railer | garman? |
| 08:55.43 | rtm | I really, really wish the USGS would put their topo maps online. |
| 08:56.05 | rtm | Railer: Sorry about my spelling. |
| 08:56.57 | *** join/#openmoko Infinyte (n=Infinyte@66-146-251-206.gtmc.net) |
| 08:57.07 | Infinyte | Well I'm off to bed. |
| 08:59.33 | rtm | mbuf: Thanks for the pointer to navit. It looks very nice. |
| 08:59.45 | mbuf | rtm, np |
| 09:01.06 | *** join/#openmoko torito (n=deepsigh@ti0034a380-dhcp0755.bb.online.no) |
| 09:02.13 | tunys | Mmmm... I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight. |
| 09:02.35 | *** join/#openmoko LionKMP (n=lion@catv-5985b8e7.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 09:03.26 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@zux221-155-248.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:03.26 | *** join/#openmoko milko_ (n=milko@3mhz.net) |
| 09:04.30 | milko_ | Hello. I'm trying to compile OpenMoko with MokoMakefile. The compile fails with `mkimage: Can't map arch/arm/boot/uImage: No such device'. What does that mean? |
| 09:05.55 | *** part/#openmoko pabs3 (n=pabs@d122-105-78-204.per9.wa.optusnet.com.au) |
| 09:06.38 | torito | any pointers into creating themes for openmoko? |
| 09:09.30 | tunys | wow |
| 09:09.40 | tunys | I can almost buy half of a FreeRunner |
| 09:10.29 | doc|home | win! |
| 09:10.33 | doc|home | wait, which half? |
| 09:10.44 | torito | doc|home: i was going to ask the same |
| 09:10.47 | torito | ;) |
| 09:10.50 | doc|home | hehe |
| 09:10.52 | tunys | Hmm... |
| 09:10.56 | doc|home | very important question |
| 09:11.00 | tunys | do I want the speaker or the mic? :D |
| 09:11.21 | tunys | Can I get the inner half? |
| 09:11.23 | tunys | :D |
| 09:11.29 | torito | tunys: i would buy the part with the lanyard loop |
| 09:11.31 | torito | jajajaj |
| 09:11.52 | tunys | waits patiently for commission |
| 09:11.57 | tunys | ... |
| 09:12.08 | tunys | stops waiting patiently and paces around |
| 09:12.46 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-171-130.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:13.22 | *** join/#openmoko surf2me (n=surfer@unixboard/users/surf2me) |
| 09:13.30 | tunys | So when I actually get a FreeRunner, what will I do with the other 300 bucks I'll have? |
| 09:14.07 | mbuf | tunys, save it for the next release |
| 09:14.17 | milko_ | What was the bash variable specifying all arguments of a script? |
| 09:15.09 | tunys | mbuf, and have two of the same phone, only one is slightly different? |
| 09:16.41 | mbuf | tunys, you can give the first one to me, then |
| 09:16.51 | mbuf | milko_, $@ |
| 09:16.55 | tunys | can I sell it to you? :P |
| 09:17.01 | milko_ | mbuf: Thank you :) |
| 09:17.16 | mbuf | tunys, we shall decide after you buy the next release |
| 09:17.37 | tunys | mbuf, you got it :) |
| 09:17.56 | tunys | mbuf, if not here, you can find me in #lojban #plugaz and #teensonlinux |
| 09:18.05 | tunys | in case we forget each other's nicks |
| 09:18.06 | mbuf | tunys, ok |
| 09:18.20 | tunys | I'm also in #asciipr0n and a couple different Ruby-related chans |
| 09:22.05 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176123235.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 09:24.25 | XorA|gone | mwester: just sent an email about your SHR image |
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| 09:31.35 | ccfly | good morning :) |
| 09:31.57 | smhar | good afternoon :) |
| 09:32.13 | ccfly | that's a matter of perspective :) |
| 09:32.25 | ccfly | And I'm not talking about timezones :> |
| 09:32.57 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@78-69-111-16-no83.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 09:32.59 | XorA|gone | ~ugt |
| 09:33.00 | apt | ugt is probably Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 09:33.23 | KrisAbsinthe | anyone want to buy a gta01 or trade for GPS unit |
| 09:33.54 | XorA|gone | has too many gta01 already |
| 09:34.06 | smhar | XorA|gone, never knew that before.. thank you |
| 09:34.57 | XorA|gone | it lies about created in mipslinux though, we were using it long before there was such a thing :-) |
| 09:36.29 | KrisAbsinthe | anywhere I can wget gllin from |
| 09:36.57 | KrisAbsinthe | or punch it in the face |
| 09:41.09 | XorA|gone | unfortuneatly its hidden behind a license acceptance form |
| 09:42.25 | KrisAbsinthe | i noticed, i wasted a few hours thinking I had gotten it, i should get in the habit of check the MD5 of stuff |
| 09:44.38 | *** join/#openmoko erwin_ (n=erwin@zux221-155-248.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:46.49 | flexd | 11:13 < tunys> So when I actually get a FreeRunner, what will I do with the other 300 bucks I'll have? |
| 09:47.04 | tunys | that's what I said |
| 09:47.04 | flexd | send it to me so i can buy a new gfx card :D? |
| 09:47.18 | *** join/#openmoko ectomorph (i=ecto@cm-84.215.116.24.getinternet.no) |
| 09:47.19 | flexd | tunys: i think my suggestion is a good idea! |
| 09:47.39 | tunys | I need a new hard drive. :P |
| 09:47.43 | ectomorph | anyone know when the gsm 900 phones will be in the store? |
| 09:48.00 | tunys | no, but they will be at some point |
| 09:48.36 | ectomorph | ok, so the phones going through eu distributors are also gsm 850? |
| 09:49.34 | tunys | no, that's where all the 900s went |
| 09:49.51 | ectomorph | ah,ok, ill buy one from then i guess :) |
| 09:49.52 | tunys | India and Europe got all the 900s, I hear. |
| 09:50.01 | ectomorph | from eu |
| 09:50.18 | tunys | gets back to coding with his Bach and Shakespeare action figures |
| 09:51.01 | tunys | Oh, Bach... aren't you glad that Ruby has a net/smtp library? |
| 09:51.18 | tunys | makes this commission a hell of a lot easier |
| 09:51.59 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=MarcOCha@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:52.47 | tunys | is basically getting paid to send email with a link |
| 09:53.55 | flexd | Working on a saturday? :/ |
| 09:54.06 | tunys | at home |
| 09:54.13 | tunys | it's also 3 am |
| 09:54.38 | flexd | it's 12:00 here, saturday morning. |
| 09:55.33 | Kamping_Kaiser | slaps EU and india for getting all the gsm900's then |
| 09:55.46 | Kamping_Kaiser | wasnt even enough left for .au >( |
| 09:55.53 | flexd | pats his FR |
| 09:56.08 | tedo | not even enough for the eu |
| 09:56.16 | tunys | blows a bit of dust off shakespeare's shoulder |
| 09:56.19 | tunys | Europe's huge |
| 09:56.30 | tunys | a lot of Linux users too, thanks to Mandriva |
| 09:56.48 | Kamping_Kaiser | theres lots of EU based distros |
| 09:56.59 | tunys | Mandriva's the biggest |
| 09:57.10 | tunys | I think SuSE was French in a past life |
| 09:57.27 | Kamping_Kaiser | i thought it was .de |
| 09:57.28 | flexd | I use Debian and Linux Mint myself, nationality of the distro does not matter as they all come with all the languages anyway.. |
| 09:57.49 | tunys | Kamping_Kaiser, you're probably right |
| 09:57.58 | Kamping_Kaiser | flexd, interesting mix (those two dists) |
| 09:58.20 | tunys | flexd, i've seen very little support for .lojban. |
| 09:58.30 | tunys | they support Esperanto though :/ |
| 10:01.53 | *** join/#openmoko kuzgun (n=deniz@unaffiliated/kuzgun) |
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| 10:06.45 | flexd | Kamping_Kaiser: their about the same |
| 10:06.49 | flexd | debian is.. debian |
| 10:07.09 | flexd | linux mint is a ubuntu variant i think, has some userfriendly stuff, very desktop friendly |
| 10:07.20 | Kamping_Kaiser | yeah, its ubuntu based |
| 10:10.22 | tunys | You know, my programming teacher (Visual Basic, eeewwww) last year was teaching us about development methods |
| 10:10.41 | tunys | He told us that we should use the "waterfall" method |
| 10:10.48 | tunys | I just read up on it |
| 10:11.17 | tunys | apparently, when it was first introduced in a paper, it was actually being negatively criticized |
| 10:11.34 | tunys | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_model |
| 10:11.56 | tunys | Never liked that teacher... |
| 10:22.20 | *** join/#openmoko tunys (n=tuna@unaffiliated/t00na) |
| 10:22.35 | tunys | that sucked |
| 10:28.04 | *** join/#openmoko oly (n=oly@78-86-186-177.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:29.33 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-078-042-063-042.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 10:29.46 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 10:29.46 | oly | I just setup a host based development enviroment, when i launch oh-launch it creates a window bigger than my screen is there an option to fix this some where ?? |
| 10:30.26 | tunys | Woo! |
| 10:35.44 | smhar | anyone got a good engkish english dictionary for freerunner? |
| 10:35.56 | smhar | s/engkish/english |
| 10:36.46 | opendeep | I am building a package using toolchain, when installing dependency library , I got "configure: error: Gnome-vfs requires libbz2 to compile.", libbz2 is already installed in system |
| 10:37.06 | milko_ | So I'm trying to compile OpenMoko, and the compilation fails, mkimage giving no such device. I managed to strace it. http://pastebin.com/m2530637d Can anyone give me a clue why it does this? |
| 10:37.33 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@pdpc/supporter/active/bluelightning) |
| 10:38.48 | opendeep | Am i need to install libbz2 in "/usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/include" |
| 10:39.00 | opendeep | Anybody help me |
| 10:39.06 | TAsn | smhar, any command line dic will do |
| 10:39.17 | TAsn | none cli must be adapted... |
| 10:41.24 | *** join/#openmoko cekay (n=cekay@xdsl-213-196-243-113.netcologne.de) |
| 10:42.04 | milko_ | Hm, well, it seems that ZFS over Fuse doesn't support mmap (at least in this case, as it has no problem to mmap other files). Any clue on how to compile OpenMoko without mmap, or I should write try to wrap mmap/munmap wrapper using malloc/write? |
| 10:42.07 | *** join/#openmoko spin_ (n=spin@CPE-76-178-13-212.natmtn.res.rr.com) |
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| 10:50.19 | spin_ | Hi! Does anybody know what's wrong with the store..? us.direct.openmoko.com is not reachable since i tr |
| 10:50.40 | spin_ | Hi! Does anybody know what's wrong with the store..? us.direct.openmoko.com is not reachable since i tried first a coupple of hours ago... |
| 10:52.20 | rtm | spin: I can reach it. |
| 10:55.48 | spin_ | rtm: how did you test it? |
| 10:57.17 | rtm | spin: I went to www.openmoko.com/store.html, then clicked on BUY FROM OPENMOKO STORE, which successfully took me to the page you mentioned above. |
| 11:01.12 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-169-244.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 11:13.32 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@221-7.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 11:18.52 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 11:21.14 | milko_ | Anyone does know if mmap's offset when mapping a file on the disk, is from the start of the file, of from the current position of the fd? |
| 11:27.52 | igor321 | so yeah the GPS issue |
| 11:28.05 | igor321 | can someone say something about it |
| 11:28.12 | igor321 | cause it seems hardware |
| 11:29.11 | *** join/#openmoko apol (i=apol@62.57.50.245.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 11:35.00 | TAsn | igor321, have you tried the mailing list? |
| 11:35.28 | igor321 | TAsn: no, i haven't |
| 11:35.46 | igor321 | though i expect a shitstorm there |
| 11:35.55 | TAsn | igor321, asking the devs is the best solution... |
| 11:36.10 | igor321 | i just need an immidiate answer cause i'm about to order |
| 11:36.26 | TAsn | as i said yesterday, i don't even own one myself... |
| 11:36.26 | igor321 | i believe they're hush hush about it |
| 11:37.02 | TAsn | igor321, worst case, you can return it if it doesn't work, though that's really a bad state to be in. |
| 11:37.09 | igor321 | i belive they should adress it asap |
| 11:37.24 | igor321 | well i'm not sure about the warranty |
| 11:37.28 | igor321 | does it cover that? |
| 11:37.30 | TAsn | from what i saw gps works for many people (only one said otherwise) |
| 11:37.41 | TAsn | igor321, a malfunctioning product? |
| 11:37.44 | TAsn | heck yeah. |
| 11:37.51 | TAsn | (i think) |
| 11:37.55 | igor321 | cause the gps technically works |
| 11:37.57 | bobkare | I'm not so sure about the gps issue |
| 11:38.01 | igor321 | with an external antenna |
| 11:38.25 | igor321 | i've seen three people on the ML who can't get a fix at all |
| 11:38.29 | TAsn | igor321, i c. well as i said, i don't know enough about the issue to help. |
| 11:38.30 | igor321 | that's pretty bad, no? |
| 11:38.34 | bobkare | The one where I got an offset seems to have cleared after staying still for an hour or so |
| 11:38.40 | TAsn | igor321, that's terrible... |
| 11:38.48 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-143.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 11:38.52 | *** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net) |
| 11:39.02 | igor321 | an offset? |
| 11:39.36 | *** join/#openmoko ufo76 (n=ufo@host86-132-96-196.range86-132.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:39.59 | bobkare | yes, it seemed to place me a several hundred meters away. did so on two consecutive afternoons |
| 11:40.07 | kuzgun | whats the GTK+ version on openmoko&toolchain, is it 2.10?? |
| 11:40.40 | TAsn | bobkare, as i told someone yesterday, seems like the fbi is playing pranks on you. |
| 11:40.53 | igor321 | bobkare: and after an hour of standing still it was okay? |
| 11:41.03 | bobkare | igor321: like i said however, it cleared up and gave me a good fix after I'd stood still for a very long time |
| 11:41.15 | igor321 | TAsn: american stopped jamming GPS 10 yrs ago |
| 11:41.22 | igor321 | bobkare: that's really bad |
| 11:41.40 | opendeep | where can i get libraries for openmoko? |
| 11:41.53 | bobkare | I'll have to see how it works now though, if it's just some kind of temporary thing the first time it tries to get a fix or something |
| 11:42.10 | kuzgun | opendeep: which libraries are you talking about? |
| 11:42.13 | fish__ | what was the name of this vector based gps app? one was rana and the other..? |
| 11:42.14 | TAsn | bobkare, though now for real, this means that either that spot has reflections which means the om gets the sat signal off a building instead from the sat |
| 11:43.03 | TAsn | or that the "known" sat position of certain sats that rise above your house at noon is wrong in the om |
| 11:43.12 | igor321 | TAsn: i don't think gps works like that :) |
| 11:43.30 | igor321 | the former :) |
| 11:43.32 | opendeep | kuzgun:When installing dependency library , I got this "configure: error: Gnome-vfs requires libbz2 to compile. |
| 11:43.33 | opendeep | " |
| 11:43.47 | TAsn | igor321, about the reflection? |
| 11:43.52 | bobkare | igor321: you certainly can get false positions becouse of reflections |
| 11:43.52 | igor321 | yes |
| 11:43.59 | TAsn | igor321, sure it does. |
| 11:44.01 | igor321 | how so? |
| 11:44.05 | kuzgun | opendeep: did you look at here => http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain#Installing_additional_libraries_into_the_toolchain |
| 11:44.10 | TAsn | gps knows where the sats are supposed to be |
| 11:44.14 | TAsn | get a signal |
| 11:44.19 | TAsn | and compare time |
| 11:44.27 | TAsn | in order to calc a position |
| 11:44.30 | TAsn | iirc |
| 11:44.40 | TAsn | so a reflection means |
| 11:44.45 | igor321 | so how does a reflection from a nearby bulidng change anything? |
| 11:44.54 | TAsn | you get the certain signal with a delay |
| 11:45.06 | bobkare | igor321: it changes the length the signal travels |
| 11:45.19 | bobkare | TAsn: hm, yeah, if it was something about the almanac it could make sense I guess |
| 11:45.20 | TAsn | so the gps device thinks that it's in bigger distance than what it really is. |
| 11:45.25 | igor321 | the signal travels maybe 100 meters more |
| 11:45.37 | TAsn | igor321, which means |
| 11:45.46 | igor321 | how great was your offset bobkare? |
| 11:45.51 | TAsn | you get 100 meter of false positioning. |
| 11:46.11 | TAsn | igor321, that depends of course what is reflecting and that's position. |
| 11:46.24 | opendeep | kuzgun:Yes , i fallowed like that only but i don't know how to install libbz2 because it is not available with configure file. |
| 11:46.28 | bobkare | several hundred meters |
| 11:46.51 | igor321 | yeah i get it, but where there any buildings to reflect upon? |
| 11:47.03 | bobkare | pretty much only one |
| 11:47.09 | TAsn | igor321, as we don't know the terrain |
| 11:47.21 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@cpe-90-157-213-131.dynamic.amis.net) |
| 11:47.24 | igor321 | and how come the fix was correct after an hour |
| 11:47.32 | igor321 | something is definetly fishy with the gps |
| 11:47.33 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x_ (n=alvar@80-218-171-130.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:47.43 | bobkare | I'll try walking someplace else the next time I'm trying to get a fix |
| 11:47.59 | TAsn | nor do we know the exact behavior of the buildings we can't know what happend... |
| 11:48.13 | TAsn | igor321, that hour may be gps related, as in broken hw |
| 11:48.18 | TAsn | though it can also mean |
| 11:48.23 | TAsn | the sat moved enough |
| 11:48.27 | kuzgun | opendeep: in fact I have libbz2, but it does not come with the toolchain I think |
| 11:48.31 | TAsn | so it doesn't reflect anymore |
| 11:48.41 | TAsn | or that the real signal arrives first... |
| 11:48.45 | igor321 | aren't the sats stationary? |
| 11:48.46 | kuzgun | I used mokomakefile to make a openmoko-devel-image, so it came with it |
| 11:48.53 | TAsn | igor321, no |
| 11:49.03 | bobkare | igor321: no, they have a pretty low orbit, not geostationary |
| 11:49.18 | igor321 | oh okay |
| 11:49.26 | igor321 | pardon my ignorance :) |
| 11:49.29 | TAsn | igor321, making sats stationary means a lot of sats in order to cover the whole world :) |
| 11:49.50 | TAsn | igor321, ignorance can be solved (wikipedia ;0 ) |
| 11:50.02 | TAsn | igor321, though there's nothing to be sorry about. |
| 11:50.28 | igor321 | i wouldn't say that :) |
| 11:50.35 | igor321 | anyways |
| 11:50.47 | igor321 | i'd certainly lika an official statement regarding this |
| 11:50.51 | TAsn | igor321, now the big Q should you (and i) buy one or not? |
| 11:50.58 | kuzgun | opendeep: many of the libraries that you will need may not come with the toolchain, I think you should install them by yourself |
| 11:51.01 | igor321 | it is a _big_ issue |
| 11:51.22 | igor321 | TAsn: i didn't care about the glamo or nothing, but i was really hoping for usefull GPS |
| 11:51.28 | TAsn | bobkare, if you can get another gps device to compare with, that would be great. |
| 11:51.37 | TAsn | igor321, i DO care about glamo |
| 11:51.48 | kuzgun | opendeep: I have a similar problem too |
| 11:51.51 | TAsn | but i can't wait to gta03 i want one now :) |
| 11:51.59 | igor321 | me too |
| 11:52.09 | TAsn | igor321, but gps is a must. |
| 11:52.15 | igor321 | exactly. |
| 11:53.16 | igor321 | so possibly the sat position info is corrupted in some GTA02's? |
| 11:53.22 | igor321 | could that be what's causing it |
| 11:54.08 | TAsn | igor321, a lot of stuff can cause corruptions |
| 11:54.18 | TAsn | even the position of the ant in the device... |
| 11:54.22 | tedo | imho the sat position info is aquired from the sats |
| 11:55.08 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 11:55.24 | igor321 | so it's probably a flaw of the internal antenna's design... |
| 11:55.29 | igor321 | oh man |
| 11:55.37 | tedo | or a clock issue |
| 11:55.43 | TAsn | by ant in device, i meant hw schematics... |
| 11:56.08 | TAsn | tedo, as i said earlier, it can be a lot of things... |
| 11:56.18 | igor321 | how precise is the clock supposed to be? |
| 11:56.34 | igor321 | i understand there are some problems setting time on the GTA |
| 11:56.55 | TAsn | igor321, i think the gps clock is a diffrent clock than the mokos... |
| 11:57.06 | TAsn | igor321, not sure though. |
| 11:57.07 | *** join/#openmoko vladimir_ (n=vladimir@85-168-199-172.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 11:57.24 | *** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.160.61) |
| 12:00.48 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:00.55 | opendeep | kuzgun:But in this case I downloaded libbz2 but there is no configure file to cross compile. |
| 12:01.33 | kuzgun | I don't know the situation with libbz2 |
| 12:02.23 | *** join/#openmoko Tig| (n=tigger@82.153.215.237) |
| 12:02.47 | igor321 | TAsn: i just read the ML again, it's not a clock issue, the GPS works fine once someone connect the externall ant |
| 12:03.08 | kuzgun | opendeep: lets take a look at the thread here => http://markmail.org/message/tqfinmcfwi5h6q5p#query:libebook%20openmoko%20pkg-config+page:1+mid:tqfinmcfwi5h6q5p+state:results |
| 12:03.20 | TAsn | igor321, so it may be a problem of a sucky ant ;) |
| 12:03.21 | kuzgun | I think its useful for the problem we have |
| 12:03.51 | igor321 | TAsn: i guess so :) |
| 12:04.36 | TAsn | igor321, gps signals are weak as is, maybe the gets too much noise inside the device. |
| 12:05.18 | TAsn | well, two Q's, do people get it to work without the external ant? and do OM have anything to say about it? |
| 12:05.27 | igor321 | TAsn: we should wait for a couple more field reports yeah |
| 12:05.35 | igor321 | 1.) they do |
| 12:05.41 | igor321 | 2.) not yet they havent |
| 12:05.46 | TAsn | igor321, i c. |
| 12:05.57 | TAsn | well we should really try to prob for an answer :) |
| 12:06.47 | igor321 | they're probaby weary of a another hw revision... but gps not working as in GTA01 is a BIG issue |
| 12:07.08 | TAsn | igor321, a very big issue indeed. |
| 12:07.23 | TAsn | igor321, that's a deal buster for me. |
| 12:07.36 | TAsn | although i really need a new phone... |
| 12:07.45 | TAsn | i need one for over an year now :) |
| 12:07.54 | igor321 | oh man, me too, and my mp3 player is also broken :) |
| 12:08.10 | TAsn | igor321, same here. |
| 12:08.33 | TAsn | my mp3 player is an ipod, so you can say it came broken out of the factory ;0 though now it's really broken... |
| 12:08.46 | jOERG_rw | igor321: please describe what exacxtly you didi to get first fix on GPS |
| 12:09.01 | TAsn | im off. :) |
| 12:09.09 | igor321 | bye TAsn |
| 12:09.11 | TAsn | igor321, try and get an answer, please :) |
| 12:09.16 | igor321 | joerg, that wasn't me |
| 12:09.26 | igor321 | it was bobkare |
| 12:09.28 | jOERG_rw | igor321: oh sorry then |
| 12:10.10 | igor321 | and someone yesterday was also complaining, couldn't get a fix without the external ant |
| 12:11.21 | jOERG_rw | @everybody (GPS): The antenna for GPS "looks" long axis of device. So placing the device flat on surface will make GPS ant look to horizon :-/ You have to hold upright to have good signal |
| 12:13.24 | igor321 | let's hope that that's all there is to it :-/ |
| 12:13.35 | Kamping_Kaiser | :\ |
| 12:14.23 | *** join/#openmoko Blalien (n=test@ip565b6b3c.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 12:14.57 | jOERG_rw | igor321: sure! I hear statements like "placed it on my table in garden for 2h, no fix". I'm pretty sure they just lay it there, flat on table -> no fix for sure |
| 12:15.48 | tedo | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:15.57 | jOERG_rw | igor321: ...pointing to the wall of their house ;-D |
| 12:16.11 | jOERG_rw | tedo: yep |
| 12:16.24 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@pD95FD28D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:16.52 | igor321 | lemme ask one more question? |
| 12:16.58 | jOERG_rw | tedo: you can see from SIDE when you remove bat/back-lid. the small ceramic block on top of device |
| 12:17.14 | igor321 | in total absence of GPS does AGPS give some approximate figures? |
| 12:17.16 | jOERG_rw | igor321: go ahead |
| 12:17.26 | jOERG_rw | igor321: nope |
| 12:17.34 | ccfly | AGPS only provides you with almanac and ephemerides |
| 12:17.40 | tedo | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:17.45 | jOERG_rw | igor321: AGPS is just to speed up TTFF |
| 12:17.56 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 12:18.05 | ccfly | that's wha it's called assisted GPS :) |
| 12:18.07 | ccfly | why |
| 12:18.36 | igor321 | triangulation from the GSM towers is unpossible :) |
| 12:18.39 | igor321 | ? |
| 12:18.56 | igor321 | i'm talking _very_ inprecise location |
| 12:18.59 | ccfly | it's possible if you have a valid snaphot of GPS towers with their locations |
| 12:19.18 | ccfly | look at google MyLocation |
| 12:19.21 | igor321 | towers id's are unique? |
| 12:19.31 | jOERG_rw | igor321: no, it's possible with lot's of tricks (see my post on ML on this). But it's different story than GPS |
| 12:19.34 | tedo | igor321: yes |
| 12:19.39 | ccfly | cell id is not guaranteed to be unique |
| 12:20.00 | ccfly | it's not worth the trobule if you have GPS |
| 12:20.03 | ccfly | trouble |
| 12:20.04 | igor321 | but in a context of a country for instance? |
| 12:20.06 | ccfly | sorry for typos |
| 12:20.19 | igor321 | they should be unique? |
| 12:20.23 | ccfly | that's nota problem you can just check your current mobile operator |
| 12:20.45 | igor321 | i understand that it's useless, having gps and all |
| 12:20.57 | igor321 | but what if i'm taken hostage in an underground lair :) |
| 12:21.08 | ccfly | thren use zombie repllent |
| 12:21.11 | jOERG_rw | cellid is supposed to be unique, combined with netid |
| 12:21.11 | ccfly | repellent |
| 12:21.44 | ccfly | not rellay, mobile operators can recconfigure their base stations and you're screwed |
| 12:21.55 | TAsn | igor321, there's a symbian\java (not sure) app that does just that. |
| 12:22.03 | ccfly | also they have mobile base stations which they deploy ocasionally |
| 12:22.12 | TAsn | it depends on a community db of ants. |
| 12:22.15 | jOERG_rw | ccfly: nah, they don't reconfig every week or so |
| 12:22.20 | ccfly | true |
| 12:23.49 | jOERG_rw | ccfly: look at my artikle in ML "Positioning using GSM revisited (again)" |
| 12:24.41 | jOERG_rw | ccfly: there's a 100EUR bounty still nobody clamed, as well ;-) |
| 12:24.50 | jOERG_rw | *claimed |
| 12:25.14 | jOERG_rw | probably I will withdraw it soon |
| 12:25.41 | jOERG_rw | err, earn myself ;-) by preparing the requested map |
| 12:25.56 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: what? |
| 12:26.13 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: what?! ;-) ? |
| 12:26.34 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: I was referring to the bounty. |
| 12:26.39 | *** join/#openmoko th0br0 (i=znc@unaffiliated/th00ry) |
| 12:27.04 | th0br0 | hey... I'm just wondering: is there a dual / tri band phone planned ? |
| 12:27.12 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: talking about the reward I promised to first person providing a nice map that shows my position when I made the tests |
| 12:27.19 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 12:27.35 | SpeedEvil | what tests? |
| 12:27.58 | jOERG_rw | GSM time-advance to different BTS |
| 12:28.36 | jOERG_rw | gives you a very precise idea of your current position, given you know where the BTS are located |
| 12:29.05 | jOERG_rw | needs some GSM hackering though |
| 12:29.05 | SpeedEvil | I failed to correlate those figures with position when I tried it. |
| 12:29.14 | SpeedEvil | On my figures. |
| 12:29.33 | SpeedEvil | These are logs of the at&EM1 or whatever? |
| 12:29.36 | jOERG_rw | TA? |
| 12:29.42 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 12:30.02 | jOERG_rw | nah, did them with a nokia6210 using monitor-mode |
| 12:30.07 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 12:30.53 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: U know TA is in increment of 550m ? |
| 12:31.16 | ccfly | @jOERG_rw: I'll look at this a bit later for sure, I'm very interested into this topic myself |
| 12:31.48 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: I diddn't find any nice figure on the engineering mode that seemed to correlate with TA. |
| 12:32.01 | jOERG_rw | ccfly: so read my post on ML. it declares exactly what I did and where to find the basics |
| 12:32.29 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: I didn't find anything nice or useful in EM |
| 12:33.47 | jOERG_rw | there's a further trick: you can't get TA for far BTS, just for the one you're associated with |
| 12:34.40 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: so you have to force-reassociate to different BTS by "bts test" or similar function, to get useful data |
| 12:35.24 | *** join/#openmoko OJW (n=OJW@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 12:35.55 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: ah |
| 12:35.56 | jOERG_rw | I did this for ~7 BTS, and you ave their exact locations cause it's o2-germany who's sending gauss-wegener coords |
| 12:36.37 | jOERG_rw | I posted all the raw data and promised a reward for somene making a nice map out of it. |
| 12:36.55 | SpeedEvil | I thought you could get TA from all BTS :( |
| 12:37.16 | jOERG_rw | probably now I will withdraw the reward, I seen it's too easy to do it myself ;-D |
| 12:37.41 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: nope. technically impossible |
| 12:37.55 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: you have to talk to BTS, to get TA |
| 12:38.09 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: can only talk to assoc BTS |
| 12:38.30 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: so have to reassociate |
| 12:39.14 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: to new BTS. send some packet. get TA for how to send packet correctly |
| 12:39.31 | SpeedEvil | Oh well - I'll wander off to do the garden then. |
| 12:39.31 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: it's a sync tng |
| 12:39.39 | jOERG_rw | *thing |
| 12:40.10 | jOERG_rw | away for breakfast |
| 12:40.13 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - I thought the handset talked occasionally to nearby BTSs to speed handoffs. |
| 12:40.37 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: nope. just listening |
| 12:40.51 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: talking nly for actual handover |
| 12:40.52 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: it is given a list by the current BTS, and only talks to another when told |
| 12:41.26 | jOERG_rw | when C1/C2 fall below threshold |
| 12:42.01 | jOERG_rw | it reassociates to new BTS with better C1/C2 |
| 12:42.48 | *** join/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@host81-153-198-60.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:42.53 | jOERG_rw | www.nobbi.com |
| 12:42.54 | SpeedEvil | That would explain why I failed to find a timing correlation in the engineering mode data. |
| 12:43.20 | jOERG_rw | good place to learn about htese things (German lang :-( ) |
| 12:43.33 | *** join/#openmoko nslu2-log (n=nslu2-lo@limax.nslu2-linux.org) |
| 12:44.13 | jOERG_rw | I never got meaningful TA prior to sending some packets to BTS |
| 12:44.24 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.218.41.31) |
| 12:44.28 | jOERG_rw | do "*#61#" e.g. |
| 12:45.13 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: please keep me up with every detail you find on EM! |
| 12:45.50 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: I tried to correlate every field recieved with distance from GPS logs, and found no clear data. |
| 12:46.12 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:46.31 | loufoque | Can I not use a 900Mhz model in the US? |
| 12:46.46 | loufoque | Can I not use a 850Mhz in Europe? |
| 12:46.52 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: you can |
| 12:46.54 | jOERG_rw | loufoque: you can |
| 12:47.03 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: in some cases with some providers it may not work in some areas |
| 12:47.14 | jOERG_rw | only just the 1800/1900 bands |
| 12:47.55 | jOERG_rw | if you come with a 850 to Germany, you'll need to use provider E+ or o2 |
| 12:48.03 | SpeedEvil | Some areas require 850/900. Many will work with 1800/1900. |
| 12:48.16 | jOERG_rw | T-com and vodafone use 900 |
| 12:48.33 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: err ?? |
| 12:49.11 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: I mean - it is often possible to get service on 1800/1900 in a country by picking the right carrier. |
| 12:49.11 | jOERG_rw | Germany is 900/1800 |
| 12:49.28 | loufoque | so the freerunner is x/1800/1900, where x = 850 or 900 ? |
| 12:49.31 | jOERG_rw | US is 850/1900 |
| 12:49.34 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: yes |
| 12:50.08 | jOERG_rw | you got 850/1800/1900, so some band should always work |
| 12:50.23 | *** join/#openmoko Thegh (n=quaim@ip-85-197-140-56.lind-sata.dsl.bikab.com) |
| 12:50.28 | jOERG_rw | not for every carrier though |
| 12:51.30 | loufoque | lots of providers seem to be 850-only in the US |
| 12:51.43 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. And many infill with 850 |
| 12:51.55 | SpeedEvil | WEll - at least one - t-mobile |
| 12:51.57 | jOERG_rw | that's usual in US |
| 12:52.23 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@zux221-196-244.adsl.green.ch) |
| 12:52.31 | jOERG_rw | so you're always better off with a triband matching your "homezone" |
| 12:52.53 | SpeedEvil | Or a quadband of course. |
| 12:52.59 | *** join/#openmoko rbs-tito (n=tito@88-107-11-227.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 12:53.05 | flexd | Hmmmm |
| 12:53.15 | jOERG_rw | though you may use nearly everywhere with little constraints on carriers to select from |
| 12:53.17 | rbs-tito | Evening all |
| 12:53.23 | flexd | Anyone here got experience with the FR's GPS? (any experience) |
| 12:53.27 | flexd | I cant seem to get a fix :/ |
| 12:53.32 | flexd | at all |
| 12:53.39 | SpeedEvil | flexd: I've used it once. Tehre are others reporting problems. |
| 12:53.56 | jOERG_rw | flexd: how did you hld the device to get first fix? |
| 12:53.57 | th0br0 | so the freerunner is a triband right ? |
| 12:54.02 | SpeedEvil | flexd: silly things. You are outside? Or have taken it outside for 15 minutes and seen it does not get a lock? |
| 12:54.09 | flexd | jOERG_rw: i havnet gotten a first fix |
| 12:54.14 | flexd | SpeedEvil: I sat outside for 40minute |
| 12:54.14 | flexd | s |
| 12:54.19 | flexd | It was by the window for 20 |
| 12:54.30 | jOERG_rw | yeah but how did you hold it???? |
| 12:54.31 | SpeedEvil | flexd: Ok - you are reading from /dev/ttywhatever? |
| 12:54.32 | flexd | im sitting next to a window (in the basement though) and it's been going for 12hours |
| 12:54.35 | flexd | yes |
| 12:54.41 | SpeedEvil | flexd: and getting NMEA strings? |
| 12:54.49 | flexd | Yes |
| 12:54.49 | SpeedEvil | flexd: though not position ones |
| 12:54.51 | flexd | it spams NMEA unknown cmd*58 |
| 12:54.56 | flexd | occasinally something else |
| 12:55.10 | SpeedEvil | flexd: Ok. Do you have another GPS? |
| 12:55.24 | SpeedEvil | flexd: And that works? |
| 12:55.37 | flexd | I dont have another GPS |
| 12:55.41 | jOERG_rw | flexd: go outside, hold the hing to the air, top to sky NOT FLAT, and you get FF very easily |
| 12:55.43 | flexd | but other GPS'es work in this area yes |
| 12:55.45 | SpeedEvil | flexd: In any case, outside for 40 minutes should get a lock |
| 12:55.52 | flexd | It didnt |
| 12:56.02 | flexd | I also took a car drive, took maybe 10minutes, no fix :/ |
| 12:56.16 | flexd | thinks he should get a ladder and try the roof |
| 12:56.19 | SpeedEvil | flexd: Many cars and windows have IR blocking on them, which may block GPS. |
| 12:56.21 | jOERG_rw | flexd: it won't fix when you drive |
| 12:56.38 | flexd | So i would need a external antenna to use it in a car? |
| 12:56.46 | flexd | hmmm |
| 12:56.51 | SpeedEvil | flexd: maybe - some cars don't do this |
| 12:57.11 | SpeedEvil | flexd: and you can get a perfectly OK signal. The issue is that it may be confused if it's mvoing, and not lock. |
| 12:57.18 | SpeedEvil | flexd: it will keep a lock. |
| 12:57.20 | jOERG_rw | flexd: nah, put it UPRIGHT to the sky and wait for <12min (that's max time to get alm and efem) |
| 12:57.21 | flexd | I could just have one with a long wire and put it out the window w/a magnetic lock to hold it in place. |
| 12:57.25 | flexd | ah |
| 12:57.56 | flexd | SpeedEvil: From the text i get from /dev/ttySAC1, which one of them will tell me how many satelites it has found already? |
| 12:58.10 | SpeedEvil | flexd: GPGSV or GPGGA will |
| 12:58.16 | flexd | it's giving SOME information that might be GPS coordinates |
| 12:58.22 | jOERG_rw | wikipedia:NMEA |
| 12:58.29 | SpeedEvil | flexd: however, before it picks up anything, it just spits out short sentances. |
| 12:58.47 | flexd | It says $GPSGSV,1,1,01,26,,,11*7C |
| 12:58.50 | flexd | for instance |
| 12:58.57 | SpeedEvil | A valid line looks like $GPRMC,104103.00,A,5613.004578,N,00306.719811,W,000.0,358.0,150408,,,A*40 |
| 12:59.01 | flexd | ah |
| 12:59.09 | SpeedEvil | Or $GPGGA,104103.00,5613.004578,N,00306.719811,W,1,07,3.0,134.0,M,0.263000,M,0.0000515,*5E |
| 12:59.15 | flexd | I have nothing like that hten |
| 12:59.26 | SpeedEvil | These are both 56 degrees north, 3 degrees west |
| 12:59.36 | jOERG_rw | flexd: you got no first fix yet!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 12:59.54 | SpeedEvil | flexd: this is a purchased one? |
| 12:59.58 | flexd | yes |
| 13:00.01 | jOERG_rw | GO OUTSIDE, HOLD THE THING UPRIGHT... |
| 13:00.08 | flexd | jOERG_rw: yea yea, im going |
| 13:00.11 | SpeedEvil | flexd: there were problems with early versions but those should be fixed. |
| 13:00.24 | flexd | But talking here and going outside does not work very well at the same time :p |
| 13:00.32 | flexd | I guess i'll try sitting outside a bit then |
| 13:00.37 | SpeedEvil | wave. |
| 13:01.14 | OJW | the problem with debugging gps applications -- having to go outside all the time to test them |
| 13:01.18 | flexd | by the way, any recommendations to which image to flash it with? Im using the one it came with atm, anything newer that works? |
| 13:01.28 | jOERG_rw | acquiring efem and alm need signal 30dB better than normal fix later. takes up to 12min |
| 13:01.49 | *** join/#openmoko apol (i=apol@62.57.50.245.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 13:01.50 | flexd | It's just a first time thing? Or will it take that long each time to get a fix? |
| 13:02.08 | SpeedEvil | flexd: first fix will take longer |
| 13:02.18 | flexd | k |
| 13:02.38 | jOERG_rw | it's to "download" alm and efem |
| 13:02.46 | jOERG_rw | takes a while |
| 13:02.47 | flexd | Does it have to be entirely clear skies around me (e.g no house wall etc) or can i just sit outside the door |
| 13:02.50 | SpeedEvil | OJW: GPS antennas with 3m or so cables are cheap. |
| 13:02.56 | SpeedEvil | flexd: outside the door will work |
| 13:03.09 | SpeedEvil | flexd: as long as you can see more than half the sky |
| 13:03.15 | SpeedEvil | flexd: the more sky the better |
| 13:03.15 | flexd | k hopping out the window then |
| 13:03.24 | SpeedEvil | Noooooooo! |
| 13:03.33 | SpeedEvil | watches flexd crash to the ground. |
| 13:03.37 | jOERG_rw | flexd: clear sky from horizon to horizon is best. otherwise may take longer |
| 13:04.01 | loufoque | what is the status of tangoGPS? Is it usable? |
| 13:04.04 | SpeedEvil | IME if it's got a clear view of any sat, it works. |
| 13:04.07 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: yes |
| 13:04.13 | flexd | SpeedEvil: Im on the first floor, so not very far down. |
| 13:04.14 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: it's a moving map |
| 13:04.17 | flexd | basement floor :) |
| 13:04.40 | loufoque | SpeedEvil: so it cannot calculate paths from a destination to another? |
| 13:04.45 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: no |
| 13:04.48 | jOERG_rw | flexd: altitude isn't the matter. direct sight to sats is |
| 13:05.31 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: google-maps is the only way you can do that at the moment - which requires a net connection. |
| 13:05.53 | *** join/#openmoko Zero_Dogg (n=zerodogg@mandriva/developer/Zero-Dogg) |
| 13:06.00 | loufoque | SpeedEvil: isn't there some open-source GPS navigation system that can be ported to the freerunner? |
| 13:06.10 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: the navigation system is the easy bit. |
| 13:06.16 | Tanuva | Arrrgh! My freerunner arrived today - but I wasnt at home that time and now have to wait until monday to fetch it from the post office :( |
| 13:06.18 | jOERG_rw | there's OSM |
| 13:06.19 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: the maps will cost literally millions. |
| 13:06.25 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: no there isn't. |
| 13:06.35 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: ?? |
| 13:06.37 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: OSM is not suitable for routing at teh moment. |
| 13:06.47 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: oh! |
| 13:06.57 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: even in the areas where it's complete, there is no turn restrictions even. |
| 13:07.10 | jOERG_rw | ahh I see |
| 13:07.19 | loufoque | SpeedEvil: just let people use google maps as a map source |
| 13:07.22 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: None of the major OSM tool editors has put them in, and there is just lots of debate. |
| 13:07.24 | loufoque | I think tango gps allows that |
| 13:07.39 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: You can't route from raster maps. |
| 13:07.47 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: and that's also not legal. |
| 13:08.21 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: you violate googles T&Cs by downloading and storing the map tiles. |
| 13:08.33 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 13:08.37 | jOERG_rw | who cares ;-) |
| 13:08.52 | SpeedEvil | Google will - if the device gets popular enough. |
| 13:08.57 | *** join/#openmoko Arg0naut (n=steveois@CPE001c10acab63-CM000a7369b290.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 13:09.10 | jOERG_rw | nah it's the SW, not the device |
| 13:09.15 | loufoque | SpeedEvil: if it's done by users and not by default then there is no problem |
| 13:09.16 | SpeedEvil | a couple of hundred users of tangoGPS downloading a hundred or several meg each isn't a big issue. |
| 13:09.36 | SpeedEvil | A few thousands might be noticable. |
| 13:10.03 | jOERG_rw | for sure if we sell million of FR, it might becme a problem |
| 13:10.36 | OJW | anyone know how many already got sold? |
| 13:10.45 | cb22 | 1000 maybe |
| 13:10.49 | loufoque | some guy that likes risks could download them all once and redistribute them |
| 13:10.58 | SpeedEvil | loufoque: it's terabytes |
| 13:10.58 | OJW | truebox keep claiming to be "overwhelmed" |
| 13:11.21 | SpeedEvil | cb22: I note the store now says 300 - up from 160 a few hours ago. |
| 13:11.51 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: what, sold FR, or remaining? |
| 13:11.57 | cb22 | SpeedEvil: nice :) i bet they know a thing or two and won't let it sell out too quickly :) |
| 13:12.08 | OJW | loufoque: didn't maemo mapper have to change the default map tiles from google to OSM for similar reason (legality of storing and using them) |
| 13:12.26 | cb22 | what about not storing them, but using it in a browser? |
| 13:12.34 | cb22 | and have some js that plots your gps position |
| 13:12.45 | cb22 | afaik that should be perfectly legal |
| 13:12.46 | jOERG_rw | cb22: no problem |
| 13:12.56 | OJW | isn't there some restriction on not aligning the tiles with a GPS position more recent than a certain number of hours? |
| 13:13.08 | loufoque | I don't even see why google likes it better when you fetch them from the web than when you download them once |
| 13:13.29 | loufoque | there aren't even ads when you download them |
| 13:13.30 | jOERG_rw | loufoque: ads! |
| 13:13.58 | loufoque | where? |
| 13:13.59 | *** part/#openmoko th0br0 (i=znc@unaffiliated/th00ry) |
| 13:14.16 | cb22 | loufoque: turn off adp maybe ;) |
| 13:14.26 | Tanuva | loufoque: they can see who wants to see what and when ;) |
| 13:14.29 | flexd | yawn |
| 13:14.30 | jOERG_rw | loufoque: they want to insert advertisments. those have to be up to date |
| 13:14.40 | flexd | I miiight have got a fix now |
| 13:14.41 | flexd | maybee |
| 13:14.53 | flexd | Its spamming more numbers like you said, but still unknown msg*58 too |
| 13:15.03 | flexd | and tangoggps does not agree, but im not sure it's setup right |
| 13:15.25 | flexd | yeah right |
| 13:15.32 | flexd | I odnt have gpsd installed :P |
| 13:16.02 | jOERG_rw | ifdown |
| 13:16.05 | TAsn | loufoque, you can check out sygic, although commercial and closed source they claim to have a working linux version... there is a chance the iface will work nice ;) |
| 13:18.25 | TAsn | also this might sound intresting... |
| 13:18.26 | TAsn | http://www.sygic.com/sdk/index.html |
| 13:19.09 | loufoque | how is .NET sdk interesting? |
| 13:19.17 | *** join/#openmoko Drakeson` (n=user@bas3-toronto02-1279400784.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 13:20.03 | TAsn | loufoque, didn't see it's .net, just did copy link location on an sdk link :) |
| 13:21.42 | *** join/#openmoko zerghase (n=zerghase@dslb-084-057-007-117.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:26.44 | flexd | this is proving harder then i thought... |
| 13:26.58 | flexd | now i cant get it on wlan again heh, and if i restart it i'll have to get a fix again :/ |
| 13:28.28 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@83.68.218.53) |
| 13:29.02 | pyknite | just ordered his Freerunner [inlove] |
| 13:29.29 | igor321 | anyone here ordered from bearstech? |
| 13:29.44 | igor321 | pulster seems to have raised prices just today... |
| 13:30.18 | pyknite | yep, I ordered from bearstech |
| 13:31.21 | pyknite | I paid 320euro |
| 13:31.39 | pyknite | and they had some in stock |
| 13:31.45 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@62.123.180.130) |
| 13:32.26 | pyknite | I mailed pulster two day back and they said me that they already have sell the first batch... they will get some new freerunner at the end of july |
| 13:32.37 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 13:32.37 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 13:33.01 | Tanuva | grml, my pulster-fr is waiting at the post office which is closed until monday. -.- |
| 13:33.18 | pyknite | arghh so long to wait |
| 13:33.21 | pyknite | ;) |
| 13:33.24 | Tanuva | yep |
| 13:33.29 | *** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.181.104) |
| 13:33.38 | Tanuva | too long. seems like I gotta kill me.... oh no. NO! |
| 13:33.42 | pyknite | i hope I will get mine next week |
| 13:34.09 | pyknite | but in a sense we are waiting for month... so one or two day more it's not so difficult ;) |
| 13:34.38 | Tanuva | it IS. because we have waited for so long, I dont want to wait one day longer... :D |
| 13:35.08 | pyknite | it's a different point of view ;) |
| 13:36.15 | *** join/#openmoko anno^da (n=anno^da@p5B07DB97.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:38.08 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@211.84-49-138.nextgentel.com) |
| 13:38.44 | *** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl) |
| 13:39.25 | flexd | hmmmm |
| 13:39.47 | flexd | Just cant get connected to my open wl an :s |
| 13:40.12 | igor321 | pyknite: when did you order from them? |
| 13:40.18 | *** join/#openmoko admiral0 (n=rda1988@151.57.206.5) |
| 13:41.05 | admiral0 | hello... my freerunner will arrive in august.... Currently i have vodafone(italy). Is it gonna work? |
| 13:41.19 | admiral0 | on the wiki there's a bug |
| 13:41.23 | admiral0 | #666 |
| 13:41.49 | LittleIdiot | thats only for the neo1973 |
| 13:41.50 | admiral0 | regarding vodafone... the last update is 5 weeks ago... any news? |
| 13:42.39 | igor321 | admiral0: you can always get another sim from vodafone |
| 13:42.42 | admiral0 | so vodafone italy sim cards work with the FR? |
| 13:43.11 | torito | admiral0: depends on which FR you ordered |
| 13:43.23 | torito | i guess |
| 13:43.35 | igor321 | torito: he's not asking about frequencies :) |
| 13:44.05 | admiral0 | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:44.15 | admiral0 | bought* |
| 13:44.27 | torito | oh |
| 13:44.51 | igor321 | admiral0: there's a possibility it won't work until the new gsm firmware |
| 13:45.06 | igor321 | but you can always get an another sim from vodafone |
| 13:45.36 | admiral0 | doh |
| 13:45.47 | flexd | wtf, rain |
| 13:45.50 | flexd | tons of rain |
| 13:45.54 | flexd | it was sunny a second ago :/ |
| 13:46.37 | *** join/#openmoko DocCod (n=doctomoe@78.141.146.211) |
| 13:47.40 | admiral0 | igor321: when will it be upgraded? |
| 13:47.49 | pyknite | igor321: just a few minute ago |
| 13:48.04 | igor321 | amiral0: i have no idea, sorry |
| 13:48.26 | igor321 | pyknite: did you get the confirmation? |
| 13:49.26 | admiral0 | thanks && bye (hope my sim will work) |
| 13:49.30 | *** part/#openmoko admiral0 (n=rda1988@151.57.206.5) |
| 13:49.46 | Danker | Is it possible to get android running on neo freerunner? |
| 13:50.04 | pyknite | the third of july they say me that they have some freerunner in stock |
| 13:50.58 | pyknite | the openmokomakefile is the way to get openmoko running on your machine? |
| 13:56.08 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@93-81-77-240.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 13:56.27 | mjr | Danker, not the provided binaries. It may be perhaps ported over if/when the code is actually freed. |
| 13:56.31 | torito | pyknite: the 2nd of july i order mine from bearstech and was told i would get it in the 2nd batch |
| 13:56.52 | Danker | mjr: So it isn't open now? |
| 13:56.57 | mjr | no |
| 13:57.04 | Danker | That sucks :| |
| 13:58.33 | OJW | hence the need for openmoko ;) |
| 13:59.28 | pyknite | torito: hu? i get this mail: http://pastebin.com/d449062de |
| 14:01.08 | *** join/#openmoko Kame2 (n=manuel@port-92-196-119-3.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 14:02.47 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@c-75-75-24-184.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 14:06.05 | flexd | hmm, my FR just froze up completely (terminal does not like having GPS data being spit into it for too long i think), can i just unplug the battery or will that do some damage? |
| 14:06.13 | flexd | Holding the power button in does nothing |
| 14:09.32 | *** join/#openmoko [Kame2] (n=manuel@port-92-196-67-227.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 14:11.00 | *** join/#openmoko tomjoad (n=tomjoad@adsl-70-130-172-239.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) |
| 14:11.03 | SpeedEvil | flexd: removing the battery is fine. |
| 14:11.08 | SpeedEvil | flexd: but first, you must |
| 14:11.13 | SpeedEvil | Dance the macarena! |
| 14:11.57 | SpeedEvil | You can also try sshing in, to see if it responds. |
| 14:12.10 | SpeedEvil | Sometimes it will, even if the GUI is locked. |
| 14:13.27 | SpeedEvil | wonders if he's pinging out again. |
| 14:13.41 | pyknite | there is no reset button? |
| 14:13.58 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p57B29013.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:14.34 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E1656F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:16.19 | SpeedEvil | pyknite: yes - it's under the battery |
| 14:16.30 | ath | No need for that. There are removable battery. |
| 14:16.30 | SpeedEvil | pyknite: remove the battery, and it's automatically pressed. |
| 14:16.43 | ath | :D |
| 14:17.58 | SpeedEvil | Hmm - http://www.mauve.plus.com/Freerunner.gif - looks like they dropped another 250 on the shop early this morning (GMT) |
| 14:20.35 | pyknite | SpeedEvil: thx |
| 14:22.47 | *** join/#openmoko pvborza (n=paul@89.137.50.204) |
| 14:22.47 | SpeedEvil | On GTA01, removing the battery for up to half an hour seemed to be required for some users. |
| 14:22.58 | SpeedEvil | To clear some conditions. |
| 14:23.15 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure what the maximum time to everything is reset is on the GTA02 |
| 14:25.36 | rtfming | rofl |
| 14:25.59 | cb22 | although GTA02 can run off usb power with no battery in |
| 14:26.08 | pyknite | half an hour to reset a device? it's seems a lot |
| 14:26.26 | cb22 | and AFAIK the min reason for resetting GTA01 was to make sure the gsm modem was shut down so you can slow charge the battry |
| 14:26.28 | SpeedEvil | pyknite: yes - I haven't observed that myuselfl, 5 mins seemed fine for me. |
| 14:26.29 | cb22 | main* |
| 14:27.26 | pyknite | SpeedEvil: I got a lot of device like gta (but under win mobile) and normally just 2 sec are great |
| 14:28.18 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 14:30.45 | *** join/#openmoko cheng (n=cheng@xGagB214.WH1.TU-Dresden.De) |
| 14:43.28 | wurp2|away_again | Does anyone know what the "no dbus" message means in zhone? |
| 14:45.03 | *** part/#openmoko Quadduc (n=quadduc@90.149.198.188) |
| 14:45.37 | zash | dbus is not responding/broken/missing/all of the above |
| 14:45.40 | zash | ? |
| 14:46.15 | *** join/#openmoko Aleoi (n=ooooops@58.33.97.167) |
| 14:46.39 | *** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:46.39 | wurp2|away_again | That was my guess, too, but I was hoping for something a little more specific |
| 14:47.18 | Dave | Greetings :) |
| 14:48.32 | wurp2|away_again | Good morning |
| 14:49.22 | Qwell | SpeedEvil: woot |
| 14:49.27 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@vpn32-056.rz.fh-offenburg.de) |
| 14:49.35 | Sup3rkiddo | wurp2|away_again, i get that as well, most prolly it means it couldn't register one of the objects properly....i get that when i test my code....but the battery meter still works |
| 14:50.11 | wurp2|away_again | Battery meter isn't working for me :-( |
| 14:50.24 | wurp2|away_again | Sup3rkiddo: are you on 01 or 02? |
| 14:51.34 | Sup3rkiddo | 02 |
| 14:51.52 | Sup3rkiddo | wurp2|away_again, /usr/bin/zhone is python :D |
| 14:51.55 | *** join/#openmoko Varox-DT (n=Varox@p4FD4629E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko zooko (n=user@nooxie.zooko.com) |
| 14:52.40 | wurp2|away_again | Sup3rkiddo: yeah |
| 14:54.49 | wurp2|away_again | oh yeah, the first boot doesn't work on zhone |
| 14:58.12 | Dave | Qwell :p |
| 14:58.22 | Qwell | Dave: |
| 14:58.23 | Qwell | ? |
| 14:59.17 | Dave | How about that shipment? |
| 15:01.27 | flexd | hmm, i think i have a fix on the GPS now |
| 15:01.37 | flexd | It's not showing the kind of numbers you did earlier |
| 15:01.53 | flexd | But it's showing similar stuff (just less numbers) and tangogps seems to halfthink it has a fix. |
| 15:02.08 | flexd | (it doesnt say no fix, but it doesnt display much usefulness either) |
| 15:04.01 | Tig| | flexd: one of the tabs on tangogps should give you some sat data |
| 15:04.15 | CVirus | How long does it take to get a fix ? |
| 15:04.16 | Tig| | it should also give you a time signal from the sat |
| 15:04.25 | flexd | it justs says nil/nal on most stuff |
| 15:04.30 | flexd | and the time is 1970 something :p |
| 15:04.39 | Tig| | in that case you don't have a lock |
| 15:04.43 | flexd | Hmm okay |
| 15:04.51 | Tig| | or |
| 15:04.52 | flexd | It didnt show that earlier though, it just said "no fix" at the map tab |
| 15:04.58 | Qwell | stupid question - does GPS return time? |
| 15:05.16 | SpeedEvil | Yes |
| 15:05.18 | Tig| | or tangogps is not talking to gpsd |
| 15:05.20 | flexd | Tig|: Maybe the sat's been up there since the 1970's? :p |
| 15:05.30 | Qwell | so, it could be used to keep time? seems useful |
| 15:05.37 | flexd | Tig|: it didnt show anything before cause i had forgot to add gpsd |
| 15:05.41 | zedstar | atomic time! |
| 15:05.42 | flexd | i installed gpsd, now it shows this. |
| 15:05.42 | Tig| | flexd: heh:) |
| 15:05.47 | TAsn | SpeedEvil, really? i thought it just sends a sync signal every X time. |
| 15:05.54 | SpeedEvil | fle, if it shows stuff like $GPGGA,1,12,,,,,3,,4,4$ |
| 15:06.12 | SpeedEvil | flexd: then that means that it's not got a valid position. |
| 15:06.27 | Qwell | oh, right, gps has it's own "time" |
| 15:06.41 | SpeedEvil | flexd: it's picked up the satellites - though it may not have enough data for a solution. |
| 15:06.51 | Qwell | "GPS, Global Positioning System time, is the atomic time scale implemented by the atomic clocks in the GPS ground control stations and the GPS satellites themselves. GPS time was zero at 0h 6-Jan-1980 and since it is not perturbed by leap seconds GPS is now ahead of UTC by 14 seconds. " |
| 15:07.01 | SpeedEvil | qwu: it will give you UTC time to within a fraction of a second. |
| 15:07.17 | Qwell | 14 seconds off, and epoch + 10 years |
| 15:07.35 | TAsn | Qwell, people just don't like standards :) |
| 15:07.36 | zash | weird that you need the time to get the time |
| 15:07.56 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@220-136-176-197.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 15:07.59 | *** part/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@220-136-176-197.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 15:08.55 | flexd | SpeedEvil: mind checking taking a look at it for me? (You can ssh into the box remotely) |
| 15:09.09 | SpeedEvil | flexd: sure |
| 15:09.09 | flexd | -checking |
| 15:11.55 | flexd | its raining like hell outside, so im not gonna go out again to get a fix |
| 15:12.07 | SpeedEvil | Shouldn't really affect it. |
| 15:12.07 | SpeedEvil | Oh |
| 15:12.52 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-81-33.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 15:13.15 | SpeedEvil | flexd: firewall probs? Anyway - http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm |
| 15:13.38 | flexd | You cant connect? |
| 15:14.13 | SpeedEvil | Nope. |
| 15:16.14 | torito | flexd: lol when you said it just started to rain like hell after a sunny day i was surprised it happen to me as well... we live in the same place i think :) |
| 15:16.23 | flexd | 7who torito |
| 15:16.29 | flexd | yeah heh |
| 15:16.30 | flexd | Oslo? |
| 15:16.33 | torito | yeap |
| 15:16.45 | torito | :D where did all that water came from? |
| 15:16.50 | flexd | No idea :/ |
| 15:16.57 | *** join/#openmoko Armed_Big_Ant (n=ant@91.117.14.29) |
| 15:17.01 | flexd | btw, there's a bunch of us norwegians in #openmoko-no :) |
| 15:17.23 | flexd | or, well people are speaking anyway. Most of us/them are in oslo meeting/getting their freerunners today |
| 15:17.24 | torito | well im not norwegian, i just live here :) im learning the language thou |
| 15:17.27 | flexd | ah :) |
| 15:17.48 | torito | today?! lucky ones, i will get mine by the end of the month :( |
| 15:18.10 | torito | if im lucky :'( |
| 15:18.50 | torito | so there are no problems with norwegian 3g simcards btw? |
| 15:19.22 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@78-22-5-158.access.telenet.be) |
| 15:25.02 | SpeedEvil | flexd: yeah - I noted that earlier on the page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS#GTA02_GPS |
| 15:25.06 | *** join/#openmoko Xand3r (n=alexande@p4FE96C6D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:25.35 | Xand3r | hey |
| 15:25.54 | flexd | Xand3r: hi. |
| 15:26.02 | Xand3r | i saw the openmoko on Linuxtag in berlin |
| 15:26.10 | Xand3r | where i can get one? |
| 15:26.16 | SpeedEvil | xaid|work: topic |
| 15:26.19 | SpeedEvil | Xand3r: topic |
| 15:26.25 | SpeedEvil | Oh |
| 15:26.34 | SpeedEvil | that should probably have www.openmoko.com in there. |
| 15:28.02 | Xand3r | thx |
| 15:28.51 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (n=fsteinel@pD9FBBF0D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:28.52 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> Buy Freerunner at www.openmoko.com , or linked distributors. |Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates |
| 15:30.55 | *** join/#openmoko effbiai (n=effbiai@idarlund.openvpn.hive.no) |
| 15:31.52 | SpeedEvil | flexd: vi |
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| 15:35.18 | Xand3r | much money, money i dont have -.- |
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| 15:42.39 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> Buy Freerunner at http://openmoko.com/ , or linked distributors. | Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates |
| 15:43.52 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178014248.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:44.11 | Dave | :D |
| 15:44.20 | Dave | How's tricks, Speed? |
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| 16:00.19 | CVirus | How can I buy from Truebox .. there seems to be no "Buy" button or so |
| 16:00.29 | CVirus | anyone from Truebox around ? |
| 16:01.18 | Weiss | CVirus: isn't that a 'Buy' button on the right at https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=Shop&thiscat=8 ? |
| 16:01.43 | CVirus | it doesn't add the item to my cart |
| 16:01.54 | Weiss | CVirus: oh, no 'Add to basket'.. just saw that |
| 16:02.01 | TAsn | CVirus, |
| 16:02.03 | Tanuva | did anyone apply an invisibleshield to the neo yet and can tell if it works well? (oh, rhymes...) |
| 16:02.04 | Weiss | i guess it's because they're out of stock for the 18th july order |
| 16:02.10 | CVirus | where is that ? |
| 16:02.14 | TAsn | enable javascript |
| 16:02.31 | CVirus | hmm |
| 16:02.32 | TAsn | oh, and Weiss is probably right. |
| 16:02.47 | Weiss | "Current availability for July 18th shipment:â Out of stock." |
| 16:03.14 | TAsn | Weiss, what were you intending to buy anyway? |
| 16:03.15 | CVirus | javascript is enabled but I can't see "Add to basket" |
| 16:03.27 | TAsn | Weiss, nvm :) |
| 16:03.43 | TAsn | CVirus, Weiss already answered you. |
| 16:03.49 | Weiss | TAsn: a Freerunner, of course :) (looks like the London group order isn't happening..) |
| 16:04.24 | CVirus | err .. sorry .. got your statement out of context .. got it now .. thanks |
| 16:06.20 | Weiss | also, there seems to be a lack of 900Mhz (European) model FRs upstream... :( |
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| 16:25.18 | Pjj | does the defualt software on the neo support sending/receiving btw? |
| 16:25.25 | Pjj | of SMS messages |
| 16:26.00 | Danker | Somebody said that yes |
| 16:26.41 | Pjj | because I read SMStool only supports sending them |
| 16:26.53 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 16:28.09 | balrog-kun | i don't think smstool is part of any of the default distros for neo |
| 16:28.59 | Dave | gah |
| 16:29.08 | Dave | one day it works, the next day, nothing -_- |
| 16:31.46 | effbiai | Pjj: yes, i've sendt and received sms |
| 16:32.03 | effbiai | tho i'm using yesterday's "today build" |
| 16:32.14 | Pjj | ok cool :) |
| 16:32.21 | effbiai | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/20080703/openmoko-devel-image-om-gta02.jffs2 |
| 16:32.22 | bobkare | I tested it with the default firmware too, worked there too |
| 16:32.28 | effbiai | roger that |
| 16:32.34 | Pjj | and battery life, in 'standby' , already ordered my neo but just curious |
| 16:32.40 | SpeedEvil | Battery life is a work in progress. The powersaving software is in a very rudimentary state. At the moment 12h is about the most. A week standby and 6 hours talk,20 hours mp3 is probable. |
| 16:33.23 | Pjj | hm sux how it is now, but I guess the batterylifetime is a high priority atm ? |
| 16:33.37 | Pjj | 20 hours op mp3 is pretty sweet though even if it was only 10 hours |
| 16:33.49 | SpeedEvil | Battery life is a work in progress. The powersaving software is in a very rudimentary state. At the moment 12h is about the most. A week standby and 6 hours talk,20 hours mp3 is probable. say Battery life is a work in progress. The powersaving software is in a very rudimentary state. At the moment 12h standby is about the limit. A week standby and 6 hours talk,20 hours mp3 is probable. |
| 16:33.52 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 16:33.53 | effbiai | this is a prototype Pjj .. |
| 16:34.18 | Pjj | yeah I know but still :) |
| 16:34.19 | Dave | speedbot strikes again |
| 16:34.20 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 16:34.23 | SpeedEvil | Software is a prototype. |
| 16:34.32 | SpeedEvil | The hardware can do much more than with the current software. |
| 16:35.11 | ezekiel-v3 | right, otherwise it would be misleading to call the hardware GTA if it were a prototype |
| 16:35.23 | effbiai | that's true.. but there's hardware improvements witch are probable aswell.. |
| 16:35.41 | SpeedEvil | effbiai: like? |
| 16:35.47 | paulproteus | kdean06, Howdy |
| 16:35.50 | effbiai | leaking gsm chip |
| 16:35.55 | SpeedEvil | effbiai: It doesn't. |
| 16:36.04 | effbiai | w00t? |
| 16:36.06 | SpeedEvil | effbiai: that's only an issue with early firmware GTA01 |
| 16:36.13 | effbiai | ah |
| 16:36.17 | Dave | hrm |
| 16:38.45 | effbiai | heh, guess i'm a little outdated =) |
| 16:40.35 | jOERG_rw | howdy |
| 16:41.04 | kdean06 | hello paulproteus |
| 16:41.31 | paulproteus | FWIW, looks like this SHR will be in OE monotone. |
| 16:41.36 | paulproteus | Now I just need to figure out how to create an OE monotone branch. |
| 16:41.39 | Dave | Hello Joerg :D |
| 16:41.56 | jOERG_rw | Dave: hi! |
| 16:42.30 | kdean06 | SHR needs a name. I'm sick of all the acronyms. :P |
| 16:42.35 | *** join/#openmoko Quadduc (n=quadduc@90.149.198.188) |
| 16:42.41 | paulproteus | Stable Hybrid Release... |
| 16:42.47 | Dave | Hello :) |
| 16:42.48 | paulproteus | "Stable Hybrid" == chimera? |
| 16:42.49 | kdean06 | I know what it is. :) |
| 16:42.56 | kdean06 | That might work. :) |
| 16:42.57 | paulproteus | I know, I'm just thinking aloud (-: |
| 16:43.21 | kdean06 | I was thinking "Evolution" earlier, but it's both cheesy and already in use. :) |
| 16:44.05 | paulproteus | I'm not too sold on chimera yet. |
| 16:44.19 | paulproteus | Even stable_hybrid might be okay. |
| 16:44.25 | paulproteus | It's more like testing_hybrid. |
| 16:45.05 | ebbe | Is ASU still using evolution for calendar? |
| 16:45.52 | paulproteus | No, I think not. |
| 16:45.59 | ebbe | What then? |
| 16:48.36 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@c-75-75-24-184.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 16:48.59 | Dave | How are you doing today, Joerg? :) |
| 16:49.28 | ebbe | Hmm. Maybe I should wait and see how the framework will handle pim, before I make my program |
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| 16:50.19 | jOERG_rw | Dave: considering my nausea/headache of thursday? :-) Fine again! Was a shortterm illness (though not "my" fault of day before, as you might guess) |
| 16:51.44 | jOERG_rw | Dave: just lots of work ;-) FR sells better than expected it seems |
| 16:52.32 | jOERG_rw | Dave: occasional audio noise on german E+ still a big mystery |
| 16:53.40 | jOERG_rw | Dave: just collecting reports from early adopters |
| 16:55.15 | TAsn | jOERG_rw, is there a page collecting those early reports? |
| 16:55.28 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: what's the totals so far? I think about 600 through the store? |
| 16:55.35 | Dave | Ah, good :D |
| 16:55.48 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: no idea, not my business |
| 16:55.55 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: K |
| 16:55.57 | Dave | Joerg has better business ;) |
| 16:56.01 | jOERG_rw | TAsn: not yet |
| 16:56.15 | TAsn | jOERG_rw, i c. that might be a good idea ;) |
| 16:56.26 | Dave | The power problems are driving me insane. |
| 16:56.35 | jOERG_rw | TAsn: already on my todo list |
| 16:56.48 | TAsn | jOERG_rw, cool ;) |
| 16:57.43 | jOERG_rw | TAsn: for now the number of reports is too small to make for a decent table or summary |
| 16:58.30 | TAsn | jOERG_rw, psh. nice :) |
| 16:58.58 | TAsn | jOERG_rw, hope this will also be true without the for now... |
| 16:59.01 | Dave | stupid power problems :( |
| 16:59.30 | jOERG_rw | Dave: what's the problem? |
| 16:59.52 | Dave | Many small things, which fuck up the phone [usage]. |
| 17:00.06 | Dave | Bugs and flaws. |
| 17:00.15 | Dave | perhaps I should write something and post it somewhere :| |
| 17:00.23 | jOERG_rw | Dave: wait for FSO to mature ;-) |
| 17:00.29 | Dave | I suppose |
| 17:01.03 | Dave | :\ |
| 17:01.18 | jOERG_rw | Dave: hw seems to be rather decent, sw is buggy still - that's known |
| 17:01.57 | TAsn | jOERG_rw, how are the distances with wifi? decent? what's the broadcast range? |
| 17:02.35 | jOERG_rw | TAsn: probably none ever tested. For depends on AP as well |
| 17:03.14 | TAsn | jOERG_rw, of course it depends, though i assume there are measurement standards... |
| 17:03.41 | Dave | Joerg, considering I keep having to play musical batteries! |
| 17:03.42 | Dave | :( |
| 17:03.53 | Dave | Not only that the charge cycle is clearly bugged. |
| 17:04.11 | Dave | at least as far as the logic is for post-cell charge completion or something. |
| 17:04.21 | jOERG_rw | TAsn: the chipset is known to be quite sensitive. You mustn't cover antena with your hand though, when hlding he device |
| 17:04.30 | Dave | :o |
| 17:04.47 | TAsn | jOERG_rw, where is the ant at in the device? |
| 17:04.56 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: on the back in the middle |
| 17:05.03 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: near one side |
| 17:05.59 | Dave | isn't the antenna connector right next to the sim card slot under the battery cover? |
| 17:06.27 | SpeedEvil | That's GSM |
| 17:06.28 | SpeedEvil | I think |
| 17:06.43 | Dave | hrm, okay |
| 17:06.54 | jOERG_rw | TAsn: have a look at the photos, or just open the device. can tell easily, the two green things (one BT, one WiFi) |
| 17:07.11 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 17:07.18 | TAsn | jOERG_rw, i wish i had one to look at :) |
| 17:07.24 | Dave | So Joerg, what am I supposed to do about a device which cannot power completely? |
| 17:07.28 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: nope, GPS |
| 17:07.44 | Dave | Leaving it connected will not charge, correct? |
| 17:07.56 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: are you sure - the GPS is on the side of the phone I thought. |
| 17:08.11 | mwester | Dave: a candidate for "Will it Blend"? |
| 17:08.13 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: same as GTA01 |
| 17:08.18 | jOERG_rw | Dave: correct. You have to boot, then it will charge |
| 17:08.29 | paulproteus | roh, around? |
| 17:08.33 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: the other one is internal GPS |
| 17:08.39 | Dave | Right so that's a shitty situation to be in, because my only solution is to hot battery swap, right? |
| 17:08.40 | TAsn | jOERG_rw, really? it doesn't charge when off? |
| 17:09.06 | jOERG_rw | Dave: right. nothing bad about it though |
| 17:09.12 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953A9F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:09.15 | TAsn | jOERG_rw, that's kinda weird :) |
| 17:09.20 | tedo | mwester: noooo, i would take it :) |
| 17:09.54 | Dave | Yes it is. |
| 17:10.10 | *** join/#openmoko balrog-k1n (n=balrog@clo22.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:10.15 | jOERG_rw | TAsn: it has to boot, to check for max current we may draw from usb. then set up regs in PMU. then charge goes n, even when suspended or power down |
| 17:10.22 | Dave | It's extremely inconvenient, furthermore, it's not -that- easy. |
| 17:10.35 | Dave | Also there's a problem with charge completion. |
| 17:10.37 | Dave | gah |
| 17:10.45 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@211.84-49-138.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:10.52 | Dave | throws batteries at joerg |
| 17:10.54 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: can it boot from USB with a completely flat battery? |
| 17:11.03 | jOERG_rw | Dave: usually it's quite easy: device boots automatically when USB is inserted |
| 17:11.28 | Dave | not when it cannot fully boot though! |
| 17:11.44 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-088-065-121-156.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:11.44 | Dave | Also when it fully charges, it begins to discharge or shut off. |
| 17:11.52 | jOERG_rw | (boot from flat ba) that's under investigation. It should. Seems like most A6 actually do |
| 17:12.16 | jOERG_rw | Dave: nope |
| 17:12.19 | Dave | every time I leave them connected overnight (booted and charging), they shut off, and then cannot be powered on, until disconnected from connection for some period of time and then powered on again. |
| 17:12.56 | jOERG_rw | Dave: for sure it doesn't. PMU keeps bat vltage at max allow level, thus trckle charging whenever needed |
| 17:13.54 | jOERG_rw | Dave: that's a sw-issue with suspend etc. no HW-issue. will be fixed |
| 17:14.17 | paulproteus | holymoly, What's the intended fix - a hard power-off at some low level of battery power? |
| 17:14.41 | Dave | :( |
| 17:14.48 | jOERG_rw | paulproteus: fix for WHAT? |
| 17:14.56 | SpeedEvil | paulproteus: if it boots from USB with battery flat reliably, there is no need. |
| 17:15.05 | *** part/#openmoko Infinyte (n=Infinyte@66-146-251-206.gtmc.net) |
| 17:15.06 | *** join/#openmoko Infinyte (n=Infinyte@66-146-251-206.gtmc.net) |
| 17:15.07 | paulproteus | Oh, good point (-: |
| 17:15.10 | SpeedEvil | paulproteus: though that may be desired for other reasons |
| 17:15.19 | paulproteus | Sorry, too early for me (-; |
| 17:15.19 | Infinyte | Ah, they took off the Battery Time ban. |
| 17:15.28 | Infinyte | >_> So.. How long does the battery generally last? |
| 17:15.32 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:15.40 | *** join/#openmoko wipf (n=wipf@dslb-084-057-242-015.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:16.31 | jOERG_rw | speedbot working quite fine ;-) |
| 17:16.36 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@zux221-201-164.adsl.green.ch) |
| 17:16.56 | Infinyte | I'm just wondering if I should maybe pick up the Spares pack too.. >_> |
| 17:16.57 | angasule | those "20 hours mp3" means high cpu usage without wireless communication? or does it have a dedicated mp3 decoder? |
| 17:17.30 | SpeedEvil | It's not high |
| 17:17.40 | SpeedEvil | CPU usage for decoding mp3 is about 60MHz |
| 17:17.46 | SpeedEvil | or 15% or so. |
| 17:17.54 | SpeedEvil | The clock can be slowed down a lot. |
| 17:18.07 | jOERG_rw | angasule: no MP3 decoder. but we may clock down CPU, it's verpowered at 400MHz for MP3 |
| 17:18.17 | *** join/#openmoko Bumbl (n=Unknown@91-113-116-128.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 17:18.20 | Dave | Oh yeah, and if you guys are interested I timed one of my boots yesterday, I didn't realize how long it took... it took 3m25s :( |
| 17:18.25 | SpeedEvil | There is work in progress on frequency switching. |
| 17:18.34 | SpeedEvil | points at cesar b. |
| 17:18.51 | angasule | SpeedEvil: I'm interested in OM as a PDA :) |
| 17:19.21 | SpeedEvil | angasule: for that - maybe a bit more than 6h - depending on backlight and activity. |
| 17:19.22 | tedo | is there a possibility to get the datasheet of the cpu? |
| 17:19.24 | jOERG_rw | goes doing decent work again. no hw-issues around here in IRC |
| 17:19.33 | Dave | :] |
| 17:19.38 | angasule | SpeedEvil: thanks |
| 17:19.40 | Dave | joerg, other than my broken gps antenna :P |
| 17:19.48 | SpeedEvil | tedo: you can appply for it at samsung. |
| 17:19.50 | *** join/#openmoko nubn (n=nubn@82-171-124-207.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 17:19.54 | angasule | we need radioisotope batteries :) |
| 17:19.58 | SpeedEvil | tedo: if you have an appropriate company. |
| 17:19.58 | jOERG_rw | Dave: how did you break it? |
| 17:20.13 | tedo | SpeedEvil: not anymore... |
| 17:20.39 | tedo | SpeedEvil: but thx. so no chance as a private person!? |
| 17:20.57 | SpeedEvil | I tried. |
| 17:21.08 | SpeedEvil | They diddn't want to send it to me as a private individual. |
| 17:21.49 | *** join/#openmoko genki (n=genki@dslb-088-066-252-208.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:22.05 | jOERG_rw | well the basic ARM specs are free. It's ust he details of 2442 SoC I think |
| 17:22.33 | SpeedEvil | the 2440 specs are available on google. |
| 17:22.36 | jOERG_rw | so you stll get docs on instruction set etc |
| 17:22.40 | tedo | jOERG_rw: but they are the interesting ones... for powermanagement, sound etc |
| 17:23.05 | SpeedEvil | tedo: 2442 is more or less like 2410 as I understand it. |
| 17:23.14 | *** join/#openmoko OJW (n=OJW@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:23.18 | jOERG_rw | nah, you'd need our schematics as well. otherwise you have no idea how things really work together |
| 17:23.28 | tedo | SpeedEvil: ok thx |
| 17:23.50 | SpeedEvil | You can get some ideas from only the PMU datasheet and the CPU, but much without schematics is basically guesswork. |
| 17:24.05 | tedo | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:24.37 | jOERG_rw | powermgmt is much about powering down peripherals. no use in mere 2442 specs |
| 17:25.13 | Dave | Hmm, I wonder how much power roughly is needed to boot the device. :] |
| 17:25.17 | Dave | I should test! |
| 17:25.20 | jOERG_rw | tedo: yeah, but I mustn't disclose those. just talk about them, as long as I like, in epic detail |
| 17:25.33 | tedo | ok thx |
| 17:25.38 | tedo | im away now... |
| 17:25.46 | jOERG_rw | me too |
| 17:28.18 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@zux221-201-164.adsl.green.ch) |
| 17:29.17 | Infinyte | Yay, I boughted it. :D |
| 17:29.58 | *** join/#openmoko acrid (n=acrid@p54B0EC95.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:31.11 | Dave | Congratulations Infinyte :p |
| 17:31.32 | Infinyte | :> |
| 17:31.49 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrodf (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26) |
| 17:31.51 | Dave | high-fives Infinyte |
| 17:32.07 | Infinyte | high-fives Dave back. |
| 17:32.19 | Dave | So the question remains, when will you get it :) |
| 17:32.26 | Infinyte | I dunno |
| 17:32.27 | Infinyte | :< |
| 17:32.38 | Infinyte | I'm to cheap to get speedy shipping |
| 17:33.45 | goodwill | dorks |
| 17:34.04 | Dave | will! |
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| 17:36.58 | Dave | Hey goodwill, want to send me more packages? :D |
| 17:37.13 | goodwill | sure what do you need |
| 17:37.16 | Dave | How large was the whole tree, by the way? |
| 17:37.36 | goodwill | remember I compiled fso |
| 17:37.42 | goodwill | and just th matchbox for you |
| 17:37.43 | Dave | Oh, yeah |
| 17:37.50 | goodwill | I did not do the whole treee |
| 17:39.07 | Dave | Yeah I gathered that, now :P |
| 17:40.19 | Bumbl | Dave: are there any changes worthy compiling fso (any main changes from milestone 1 to now) |
| 17:41.32 | Dave | Probably nothing spectacular yet |
| 17:41.47 | Bumbl | ok |
| 17:41.51 | Dave | unless you enjoy playing with new things :] |
| 17:41.53 | Dave | and breaking them :D |
| 17:42.28 | Bumbl | I use gentoo ~amd64 and many live ebuilds; does that count? |
| 17:44.07 | *** join/#openmoko affen (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
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| 17:45.48 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:51.00 | Bumbl | Dave are you able to replace the demo icons with real application launchers with the fso build? |
| 17:53.00 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 17:55.12 | Dave | Unsure of yet, though it is highly likely. |
| 17:56.52 | *** join/#openmoko Princess1^ (n=Princess@209-252-134-170.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 17:57.17 | Bumbl | the question is where to put the .desktop files |
| 17:57.39 | Bumbl | i tried /home/root/Desktop but that doesn't work |
| 18:01.39 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@grumari.nitnet.com.br) |
| 18:04.16 | swc|666 | does anyone think that there is a difference quality-wise regarding MicroSD cards (when running an operating system on them)? Is one particular brand of MicroSD better than another or are they pretty much all the same? |
| 18:04.37 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 18:05.14 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182061078.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:05.23 | *** join/#openmoko MrTuttle (n=hklein@i59F74114.versanet.de) |
| 18:05.32 | mjr | I wouldn't think so by default. (As for performance, the cards won't be the limiting factor by a long shot.) |
| 18:05.41 | *** join/#openmoko russellb (n=russell@asterisk/developer-and-stable-maintainer/drumkilla) |
| 18:06.35 | gambler | so neo will be QT based now? |
| 18:07.22 | kdean06 | gambler, There are several software stacks. |
| 18:07.28 | gambler | i know |
| 18:07.39 | kdean06 | gambler, The main one being developed by Openmoko includes Qt among many others. |
| 18:07.52 | kdean06 | It runs X, so it's Qt, Enlightenment, GTK et cetera. :) |
| 18:07.52 | gambler | kdean06, why the change |
| 18:07.57 | kdean06 | So whatever you like, go for it. :) |
| 18:09.25 | *** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.181.43) |
| 18:09.39 | Bumbl | gambler: because the gtk apps weren't considered stable enough |
| 18:09.42 | kdean06 | gambler, http://gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/openmoko-software-update/ |
| 18:09.52 | kdean06 | That's not the entire truth. :) |
| 18:09.53 | mjr | Bumbl, actually, the gsm stack wasn't |
| 18:10.00 | kdean06 | There are a bunch of reasons. |
| 18:10.01 | mjr | which is true. |
| 18:10.39 | genki | I still can't get GPS to work on my freerunner, think I got one of the devices with antenna problems :) |
| 18:16.25 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 18:17.48 | Bumbl | is there a list of programs in the repositories available (with description) |
| 18:21.01 | loufoque | kdean06: because the openmoko devs suck, so the only viable solution was to reuse qtopia, which already exists and works |
| 18:21.30 | kdean06 | Any answer that uses one line is only partially correct. :P |
| 18:21.49 | kdean06 | I don't think the devs suck on general principal... |
| 18:22.03 | kdean06 | Because the devs aren't the only ones making software decisions, so I think it's unfair to say that. |
| 18:22.16 | kdean06 | There are several reasons. |
| 18:22.24 | mwester | loufoque might be correct, but we have to admit that the community are the openmoko devs. |
| 18:22.41 | kdean06 | There was pressure to ship a running device to begin making money. That plays a big part... Financial sponsers don't like spending money with no return. |
| 18:23.08 | mwester | Because the community failed to come up with a software stack that works, OM management made the (admittedly questionable) decision to build something with qtopia. |
| 18:23.26 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net) |
| 18:23.36 | wurp2|away_again | I don't think the Qtopia decision was bad; the timing was just *really* bad |
| 18:23.42 | kdean06 | mwester, I understand that opinion... I kind of disagree. |
| 18:23.42 | loufoque | well openmoko devs worked for multiple years on the basic phone suite (dialier, contacts, sms) without producing anything good. |
| 18:23.46 | mwester | It might also be fair to say that OM didn't exactly do much to organize the community either... |
| 18:24.03 | wurp2|away_again | I'm sure they thought they would throw something together in a month that they could call an OM release, but got the stable apps from qtopia |
| 18:24.20 | paulproteus | waves to wurp2|away_again |
| 18:24.26 | paulproteus | I've been chatting on #oe about the way to proceed, btw. |
| 18:24.26 | loufoque | work started on that suite years ago, YEARS! |
| 18:24.27 | kdean06 | mwester, When someone in Openmoko Inc. can say "Do this" and override a design decision, I don't think the community of users and developers carry any burnen. |
| 18:24.29 | *** join/#openmoko johan___ (n=chatzill@99-11-22-229.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:24.31 | wurp2|away_again | paulproteus: Hey! |
| 18:24.35 | wurp2|away_again | paulproteus: Excellent |
| 18:24.39 | kdean06 | s/burnen/burden/ |
| 18:24.44 | loufoque | and they just gave it up a few months ago to throw everything away and replace it by qtopia |
| 18:25.09 | mwester | kdean06: Agreed. I'm just saying that we (the community) should have seen this a year ago, and gone off and done something ourselves. |
| 18:25.09 | wurp2|away_again | afk |
| 18:25.20 | kdean06 | Understood. :) |
| 18:25.40 | kdean06 | There are a lot of problems in general. :) |
| 18:26.28 | milko_ | I myself like the idea to use Qtopia. Being free software, I don't see the reason to reimplement everything, especially when the aim is to get the first phone powered by free software out and working. Also, GTK+, seems to be slow for an embedded device (and for everything). The automatic widget resize thing is cool, but it has a big price... |
| 18:26.52 | mwester | kdean06: Yes, but there are solutions that look feasible now -- mickey and crew have designed a very good framework, and there are enough interested community folks that we should be able to get an alternative. I'm quite encouraged, actually. |
| 18:27.19 | kdean06 | Yeah. |
| 18:27.21 | kdean06 | I agree. |
| 18:27.35 | kdean06 | I assumed that the ASU would incorporate the FSO stuff. |
| 18:27.45 | kdean06 | Once it was made clear that wasn't the intent of the ASU, I lost faith. :P |
| 18:28.05 | kdean06 | So I'm quite stoked abotu the FSO stuff and the I-hate-all-these-acronyms-SHR |
| 18:28.06 | mwester | milko_: One of the big issues is that OM is using an experimental qtipia port to X; the official Qtopia for the OM is from Trolltech, and as soon as the latest image is done by them, that may be a very good alternative. |
| 18:28.08 | linuxxr | is that april or august there |
| 18:28.14 | loufoque | milko_: LiFO & co are GNOME-based |
| 18:28.29 | mwester | kdean06: You think we need something other than an acronym? :D Let's call it "fred" |
| 18:28.54 | loufoque | Qtopia isn't as open as you'd like, too. It's controlled by Trolltech/Nokia, not by a community. |
| 18:29.22 | mwester | linuxxr: Actember. New month that will be added to the calendar whenever the ASU is ready. |
| 18:29.24 | milko_ | On the other hand, Qtopia on my GTA01 worked sluggish, not as much as OpenMoko's GTK+ apps, but still... I haven't updated my Neo software in like 6 months, so I'm not very informed how is the stuff now (I'm still trying to compile the tree the last five days :D ) |
| 18:29.38 | kdean06 | loufoque, Community control doesn't really matter to me, honestly. I life Free Software, I'm not concerned with the community-driven development model. |
| 18:29.39 | linuxxr | :) |
| 18:30.09 | milko_ | loufoque: You can always fork it, if something goes the wrong way :) |
| 18:30.09 | zooko | I was about to say the same thing/ |
| 18:30.20 | zooko | I'm sure that Free Software and openness are really valuable to me. |
| 18:30.23 | mwester | loufoque: Correct. My objection with Qtopia is merely technical; it lacks some things I need and porting those from X to Qt is not on my to-do list anytime soon. |
| 18:30.24 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 18:30.33 | zooko | I'm not sure whether a "community-driven" development process is a value to me or an anti-value to me. |
| 18:30.44 | johan___ | can someone point me to the best images to try the Qt stuff on my neo? |
| 18:31.02 | mwester | AFK for a while... |
| 18:31.06 | kdean06 | zooko, It depends on the situation for me. |
| 18:31.42 | johan___ | im trying : http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/200807/20080704/ - are these workable? |
| 18:32.01 | loufoque | The company will have more people, so the fork won't be successful. With a company-controlled software, you simply have to suffer the design choices of that company. With a community-driven development, when a company contributes they get reviewed just like anyone. |
| 18:32.49 | *** part/#openmoko vernier (n=vernier@s216-232-85-208.bc.hsia.telus.net) |
| 18:32.57 | zooko | kdean06: I think that's the right answer. "It depends." |
| 18:34.12 | *** join/#openmoko MadTBone (n=bruce@cpe-66-65-112-114.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 18:34.49 | *** join/#openmoko hklein_ (n=hklein@i59F74114.versanet.de) |
| 18:35.01 | kdean06 | I like the innovation pushed by community driven models and I like the stability of a commercially driven approach. In general, it's the competition between the two that benefits me, not either model. So I'm happy that Qtopia works on the hardware, and community driven things too. :) |
| 18:35.33 | wurp2|away_again | paulproteus: Do you have a picture of how we can identify snapshots of OE that we put out in releases? |
| 18:35.54 | *** join/#openmoko darktears (n=darktear@boi78-2-82-227-230-98.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:36.03 | wurp2|away_again | . mickey|zzZZzz was saying that he didn't see why we should branch OE, with which I agree, but I would like to be able to label |
| 18:36.13 | *** part/#openmoko darktears (n=darktear@boi78-2-82-227-230-98.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:36.54 | kdean06 | Well, I've got to drive out to pick up my wife. G'day all. |
| 18:37.02 | *** join/#openmoko bdove (n=ipo@c-24-14-82-158.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 18:37.29 | milko_ | kdean06: I myself believe that those two are illusions. A community can create a solid stable software, even more than a company can do. And the innovation in the community is something I don't see that much. The difference lies that the community is free and devotes its time to improving the software, which might be the case with the company. On the other hand, the community might fail. :) |
| 18:37.31 | paulproteus | wurp2|away_again, mwester was very helpfully explaining to me that we should develop on the org.oe.dev branch, and just have a different target. |
| 18:38.04 | wurp2 | paulproteus: How do we choose what version of the files is going into the release? It makes me really uncomfortable not to have reproducible releases |
| 18:38.06 | paulproteus | I don't know of a way to label "try this build" except to do a build, test it, and then release the JFFS/uimage etc. |
| 18:38.11 | lpotter | openmoko software is also controlled by a company |
| 18:38.15 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:38.20 | paulproteus | wurp2, In the future we'll use bitbake files for the reproducible building. |
| 18:38.37 | paulproteus | Once we get to the point of having software to release! |
| 18:38.45 | wurp2 | paulproteus: Well, we can label all files in the repo with a build #, then go back & add a release label if the build is good |
| 18:38.51 | paulproteus | Yes. |
| 18:39.19 | wurp2 | paulproteus: So we'll have permissions to do that? |
| 18:39.19 | linuxxr | maybe a section at linux questions.org would be a good solution |
| 18:39.50 | bdove | hello ppl... I have being away for a while and ones freerunner is out, i have taken a look at the project again... But it seems to be hard now to get a grib on what is the software stack to start doing sw... any off the hand clarifications? |
| 18:39.55 | paulproteus | wurp2, We can do it in the OE repo, is what mwester suggested. |
| 18:40.30 | wurp2 | paulproteus: OK, great. I just wasn't sure we would have permissions to apply labels. |
| 18:40.57 | wurp2 | I'm not gonna be able to stay on very long; my middle son's bday party is today |
| 18:41.06 | paulproteus | And I have to go meet some friends for dim sum. (-: |
| 18:41.11 | wurp2 | I finally got a good build on my machine :-) |
| 18:41.15 | paulproteus | I'll try to write up an updated process document by the end of the day. |
| 18:41.17 | paulproteus | Yay (-: |
| 18:41.22 | wurp2 | I had to unset all my environment variables |
| 18:41.27 | wurp2 | paulproteus: Excellent! |
| 18:41.38 | wurp2 | I think my INCLUDE was the culprit |
| 18:42.34 | wurp2 | afk again :-( |
| 18:43.14 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@zux221-201-164.adsl.green.ch) |
| 18:44.02 | *** join/#openmoko Nanotron (n=Nanotron@p54AE085E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:45.56 | gambler | the weird thing about the move to qtopia is it seems strange because nokia snapped up trolltech |
| 18:46.00 | gambler | seems to be uncertainty there |
| 18:46.18 | Dave | a GAMBLE, perhaps? ;D |
| 18:46.23 | lpotter | how is that uncertain? |
| 18:46.27 | zooko | Personally I think people underestimate the effective freedom that Free Software provides. |
| 18:46.29 | zooko | That is: |
| 18:46.38 | lpotter | its _more_ certain now |
| 18:46.48 | zooko | I think it is a reasonable strategy to think that you can rely on Qtopia without actually being vulnerable to Nokia messing with you. |
| 18:47.10 | zooko | Maybe I'm wrong. Hard to tell. If you're a businessperson or a strategist then you get to make up your mind and roll the dice. :-) |
| 18:47.31 | gambler | lpotter, no one knows whats in the mind of corporate bosses. i have a greenphone in my cupboard i can show you |
| 18:47.31 | lpotter | why would nokia mess with qtopia? |
| 18:47.33 | gambler | tech companies are bought all the time to sink their products. |
| 18:48.04 | lpotter | greenphone was never meant to be anything but a development platform... like a reference platform |
| 18:48.25 | effbiai | does anyone have qtopia-4.3.1-neo-flash.tgz and could have sendt it to me? - http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=48 does not work.. |
| 18:48.49 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 18:48.52 | polz | lpotter: nokia wouldn't mess with qtopia, but they could use qtopia to mess with openmoko |
| 18:49.21 | lpotter | why would we do that? we are using the neo/freerunner to further qtopia |
| 18:49.27 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 18:49.50 | zooko | Oh, lpotter is a Nokia employee? |
| 18:49.57 | lpotter | yes |
| 18:50.03 | zooko | Cool. |
| 18:50.03 | effbiai | hah :> |
| 18:50.13 | gambler | lpotter, mmmkay |
| 18:50.30 | polz | lpotter: if Nokia's phone line-up is ever threatened by an openmoko device, I'd expect the corporate bosses to try _anything_ to undermine the competition |
| 18:50.33 | effbiai | lpotter: the you prolly could send me qtopia-4.3.1-neo-flash.tgz? ;) |
| 18:51.04 | polz | lpotter: although I don't think that's really going to be possible before GTA09 or so :> |
| 18:51.22 | lpotter | right.. nokia being threatened by little openmoko? |
| 18:51.40 | zooko | Indeed, it would be immoral and illegal of Nokia's corporate bosses not to do so, since they've accepted lots of money from investors on the agreement that they will do their best to repay those investors. |
| 18:51.48 | polz | lpotter: IBM being threatened by little Microsoft ;) |
| 18:52.09 | doc|home | zooko: not true, there's no legal requirement for companies to make money |
| 18:52.27 | polz | anyway, as long as it's free software, OpenMoko can always fork |
| 18:52.39 | doc|home | zooko: there's not really even a legal requirement for companies to do what non-voting shareholders want, people can sell their shares |
| 18:52.49 | gambler | doc|home, yes there is - if they are publically traded |
| 18:52.56 | lpotter | effbiai: those were removed |
| 18:53.02 | effbiai | why= |
| 18:53.03 | effbiai | ? |
| 18:53.04 | zooko | There is no legal requirement for companies to make money, in general, but if a company (or an officer thereof) accepts investment from investors while promising those investors that it will attempt to repay them, |
| 18:53.11 | lpotter | effbiai: I will work this week on getting updated images/files up |
| 18:53.28 | doc|home | gambler: make money? nope. Corporations can do what they like, most attempt to make money, but that doesn't have to be their sole purpose. |
| 18:53.29 | effbiai | roger |
| 18:53.34 | zooko | and then the company (or officer thereof) doesn't make a good faith attempt to live up to their end of the bargain, then they are (arguably) morally and (possibly) legally in the wrong. |
| 18:53.46 | mwester | is eager to try out the latest Qtopia images. |
| 18:53.57 | doc|home | zooko: ah, yes, well that's different :) then he has made a claim that he's trying to make money. |
| 18:53.58 | lpotter | effbiai: http://www.qtopia.net/modules/news/ |
| 18:54.19 | linuxxr | may need to save that last non nokia Qtopia image |
| 18:54.29 | doc|home | zooko: but at the same time, companies don't have to screw each other over to make money. |
| 18:54.40 | Dave | Hello Mr. Doc. |
| 18:54.49 | doc|home | hello Dave |
| 18:55.02 | polz | falls to his knees before mwester |
| 18:55.08 | linuxxr | before it somehow gets changed |
| 18:55.14 | effbiai | argh, i should have seen it coming and saved it sooner :> |
| 18:55.23 | polz | thankyouthankyouthankyou for getting my phone to suspend & resume |
| 18:55.57 | effbiai | polz: np! |
| 18:56.27 | gambler | its been awhile since i left my machine all night compiling openmoko. is it easier to compile now? A VM/snapshots system like TT put out with greenphone would be nice |
| 18:56.29 | Dave | Do we have a time for full cell charge cycle? |
| 18:56.47 | zooko | doc: that makes sense. I enjoy thinking about the conflicting, complicated relationships that arise. Companies simultaneously have a moral obligation to their shareholders while arguably a moral obligation to others, such as their customers. I don't believe that, in general, these obligations are mutually consistent. |
| 18:56.59 | *** join/#openmoko polaru (n=polaru@86.121.201.197) |
| 18:57.00 | polz | btw, which is the best kernel image to use with gsmd (+GTK apps) currently ? |
| 18:57.04 | zooko | Well, that was fun. Maybe we should create #philosophy. I'll bet there already is one. |
| 18:58.54 | *** join/#openmoko cl0s_ (n=cl0s@ool-44c4a795.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 18:59.20 | zooko | joins #philosophy |
| 19:00.36 | gambler | take commie|home with you |
| 19:00.56 | cl0s_ | T-mobile uses GSM 1900... on openmoko.com though it says its available in 850 and 900.. is 1900 = 900? because I didnt see any 900's at all on the chart i was looking at but the 900 version one is the one thats sold out.. |
| 19:01.26 | cl0s_ | atleast no gsm 900 from US carriers that i could tell.. |
| 19:01.31 | mjr | ~triband |
| 19:01.35 | mjr | ~gsm |
| 19:01.35 | apt | i guess gsm is a codec, operating at approx 13kbps up/down. four bands worldwide. 850/900/1900/1800MHz. Freerunner comes in two variants, one supporting 900, one 850. 900 is used in europe, and 850 in US. The other two bands in both. |
| 19:01.55 | milko_ | zooko: Unfortunately, a company is not a human being, therefore 'moral obligations' do not exist when you are talking about one, especially big, public one. Now, that aside, it has moral obligations to more than just its customers and shareholders. :) Now the law was supposed to take care of this, but does it? :) |
| 19:02.02 | loufoque | cl0s_: you're in the US and you want 900!? |
| 19:02.11 | *** join/#openmoko [Kame2] (n=manuel@port-92-196-97-234.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 19:02.14 | mjr | loufoque, he doesn't know what he wants |
| 19:02.19 | cl0s_ | no I wasnt sure if that was the same as 1900.. |
| 19:02.24 | cl0s_ | because i didnt see any 900 ons the list |
| 19:02.24 | loufoque | it is not |
| 19:02.29 | zooko | I should have specified corporate officers when I was talking about moral obligations. |
| 19:02.32 | cl0s_ | but i guess thats because its europe.. |
| 19:02.39 | loufoque | 850, 900, 1800 and 1900 are all different numbers |
| 19:02.42 | cl0s_ | thanks.. so i guess all i can really do is get att if i want one.. |
| 19:02.51 | cl0s_ | and thats on 850 which is still not sold out |
| 19:03.09 | loufoque | you can buy 900 from quite a number of resellers in europe |
| 19:03.21 | mjr | cl0s_, read what apt said |
| 19:03.23 | cl0s_ | yea but no US carrier is going to support that.. |
| 19:03.44 | loufoque | why would you want 900 if you leave in the US? |
| 19:03.51 | mjr | HE DOESN'T |
| 19:03.54 | cl0s_ | no i dont.. |
| 19:03.55 | cl0s_ | lol |
| 19:04.00 | loufoque | then why is he talking about US carriers? |
| 19:04.01 | mjr | sheesh |
| 19:04.09 | mjr | loufoque, shut up and read what he's said |
| 19:04.11 | cl0s_ | thanks mjr and apt though, i understand now.. |
| 19:04.18 | mjr | cl0s_, and you, get the 850 version |
| 19:04.36 | cl0s_ | yea thats perfect because its all thats left on openmoko.com |
| 19:04.40 | mjr | problem solved |
| 19:04.54 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak (n=stefreak@frnk-4d00f8b6.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:05.25 | cl0s_ | alright well thanks for everything! cant wait to get mine |
| 19:06.09 | *** part/#openmoko cl0s_ (n=cl0s@ool-44c4a795.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 19:06.42 | mjr | the apt band line is suboptimally phrased, though "The other two bands in both" what? it should say, "The other two bands are supported by both Freerunner models" |
| 19:06.57 | Dave | :| |
| 19:07.26 | *** part/#openmoko zooko (n=user@nooxie.zooko.com) |
| 19:08.04 | doc|home | macdonalder: ping? |
| 19:08.19 | *** join/#openmoko LionKMP (n=lion@catv-5985b8e7.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 19:08.23 | Dave | ding |
| 19:08.38 | doc|home | dong |
| 19:08.58 | doc|home | showers |
| 19:09.05 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@90-227-33-55-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 19:12.20 | swc|666 | as anyone booted Debian on the MicroSD yet on the FR? |
| 19:12.29 | swc|666 | a/as/has* |
| 19:17.25 | ecraven | hm.. would ubuntu mobile run on the freerunner? |
| 19:21.17 | effbiai | ecraven: is it possible to get ubuntumoble? |
| 19:21.27 | Pjj | don't think so, think it's made only for some intel processor |
| 19:21.41 | effbiai | yeh, what i thought |
| 19:22.08 | ecraven | i was just wondering, but it probably needs a faster processor and more memory |
| 19:22.20 | ecraven | ah, i can't wait, so many hours until monday, when i get my freerunner! |
| 19:22.32 | effbiai | ecraven: speccs are here http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile |
| 19:23.04 | effbiai | ecraven: hehe, it's a cool device =) i've played with mine since Wedensday. Tho there's a lot of work witch need to be done |
| 19:23.24 | mjr | yeah ubu mobile is heavier stuff |
| 19:23.40 | ecraven | effbiai: i'm mostly interested in how to remove everything but phone and text from my phone :) and then maybe add a few more things later |
| 19:24.14 | effbiai | heh, the shipped software aint much more than that :P |
| 19:26.38 | swc|666 | well i see that there is this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian |
| 19:27.08 | swc|666 | so i suppose the modules and the kernel/zImage need to be changed to work with the FR i assume |
| 19:30.00 | *** join/#openmoko jebba (n=jebba@unaffiliated/jebba) |
| 19:31.26 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 19:31.32 | ecraven | ooh, that looks nice, i'll have to try that :) |
| 19:31.55 | Dave | muwahaha |
| 19:32.34 | macdonalder | doc|home: ring ring ring |
| 19:32.54 | *** join/#openmoko Railer (n=Railer@S0106001839c24abd.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 19:32.55 | doc|home | macdonalder: soon ;) you in? |
| 19:33.02 | doc|home | macdonalder: no response from other person |
| 19:33.09 | Railer | anyone got their phone |
| 19:33.12 | Railer | yet? |
| 19:33.20 | macdonalder | yup, take my money before I spend it all on hookers and blow |
| 19:33.25 | doc|home | haha |
| 19:33.30 | swc|666 | lol |
| 19:33.35 | effbiai | Railer: got it on wedensday |
| 19:33.35 | macdonalder | ;) |
| 19:33.47 | swc|666 | i get mine monday :s |
| 19:33.55 | doc|home | macdonalder: when and where suits you? I want to go to mountain equipment coop on broadway |
| 19:34.00 | doc|home | so I'll be closeish |
| 19:34.16 | macdonalder | I should be able to make it there |
| 19:34.31 | doc|home | macdonalder: how about blenz on broadway and granville at 3pm? |
| 19:34.41 | macdonalder | yup, I can do that |
| 19:34.48 | doc|home | I've some laundry to do first :) |
| 19:35.27 | macdonalder | heh, yes... please do that firsrt |
| 19:35.39 | doc|home | haha |
| 19:35.45 | doc|home | out |
| 19:35.49 | doc|home | see you then |
| 19:35.54 | macdonalder | yup, later |
| 19:36.17 | doc|home | macdonalder: see pm |
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| 19:37.57 | *** part/#openmoko bkrus1 (n=bkruse@76.73.154.120) |
| 19:39.24 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@221-7.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 19:39.40 | flexd | By the way |
| 19:39.52 | flexd | ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]: Operation not supported |
| 19:39.53 | flexd | Failed to set encryption. |
| 19:40.05 | flexd | x4 is what im getting when trying to use wpa_supplicant on FR |
| 19:40.18 | Bumbl | has the same problem with wpa2 |
| 19:40.31 | flexd | Bumbl: Im using WPA2 aswell |
| 19:40.44 | te_acrid | anyone managed to connect to gsmd on FR via cu? |
| 19:41.43 | *** part/#openmoko fenn (n=pz@adsl-75-60-173-17.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:43.10 | Bumbl | flexd, seems to be a kernel bug/configuration failure; I couldn't reproduce the error on om-latest kernel though, but I can't connect to the internet although I get an IP; resolv.conf is correct and the router lists the freerunner as connected |
| 19:43.28 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:44.16 | TAsn | Bumbl, tried pinging? |
| 19:44.30 | TAsn | tried sniffing what's sent using another computer? |
| 19:44.33 | flexd | Bumbl: trying with just WPA now |
| 19:44.39 | TAsn | tried turning enc off? |
| 19:44.40 | flexd | still no go :/ |
| 19:44.45 | SpeedEvil | flexd: any GPS results? |
| 19:44.46 | flexd | TAsn: turning encryption off works fine |
| 19:44.48 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:44.54 | flexd | SpeedEvil: Nah, it's too wet outside |
| 19:45.00 | SpeedEvil | K |
| 19:45.01 | flexd | i cant be arsed to stay outside :p |
| 19:45.01 | TAsn | flexd, so the problem is with the wpa, i c. |
| 19:45.11 | flexd | TAsn: the problem is with encryption itself i think |
| 19:45.11 | TAsn | well try to sniff using another computer... |
| 19:45.22 | flexd | Im not that advanced ;) |
| 19:45.32 | flexd | but wpa_supplicant works |
| 19:45.34 | flexd | atleast for open networks |
| 19:45.39 | flexd | I havent tried wep yet |
| 19:45.41 | flexd | will do now |
| 19:46.04 | TAsn | flexd, well, the only way to know what's happening is sniffing :) |
| 19:46.24 | swc|666 | p |
| 19:46.26 | TAsn | flexd, is it possible you forgot you wap pass? ;0 |
| 19:46.30 | swc|666 | yep |
| 19:46.33 | TAsn | wpa* |
| 19:46.42 | linuxxr | brian starts sniffin 'round |
| 19:47.00 | TAsn | linuxxr, can you smell the summer? |
| 19:47.17 | linuxxr | its not quite made it |
| 19:47.20 | TAsn | all the flowers and the cooked people skins? |
| 19:47.37 | macdonalder | adds paprika |
| 19:47.42 | linuxxr | y too much lawn to mow still |
| 19:47.46 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@221-7.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 19:47.47 | flexd | aaargh |
| 19:47.55 | flexd | I must learn not to press ctrl+z in terminal -_- |
| 19:47.55 | TAsn | fletch, not even with wep? |
| 19:48.09 | flexd | it pauses the screen, and i have no idea how to get it working again :( |
| 19:48.12 | TAsn | flexd, hehe, i also hate that :) |
| 19:48.22 | SpeedEvil | flexd: do you mean ctrl-s? |
| 19:48.23 | flexd | anyone know the key to "unpause" it? |
| 19:48.26 | TAsn | flexd, i think using kill -something |
| 19:48.28 | SpeedEvil | flexd: If so - ctrl-q |
| 19:48.39 | TAsn | flexd, he means z |
| 19:48.40 | Dave | What exactly are we making here? :D |
| 19:48.48 | linuxxr | i need me sniffer setup before the freerunner gets here |
| 19:48.49 | Dave | What's cookin' doc? |
| 19:48.50 | macdonalder | roasted people |
| 19:48.53 | flexd | SpeedEvil: try pressing ctrl+z in a terminal |
| 19:48.57 | SpeedEvil | flexd: XON and XOFF - flow control. ctrl-s and ctrl-q |
| 19:49.18 | SpeedEvil | flexd: I know what it does in a normal terminal - basically nothing. |
| 19:49.18 | flexd | it was control+z |
| 19:49.32 | flexd | crtl+s/q does nothing |
| 19:49.33 | macdonalder | yeah it suspends a process |
| 19:49.39 | macdonalder | (ctrl+z rather) |
| 19:49.43 | linuxxr | a live cd sniffer is what i need |
| 19:49.53 | macdonalder | type 'fg'? |
| 19:50.04 | SpeedEvil | macdonalder: which shouldn't do anything for a running shell. |
| 19:50.14 | macdonalder | oh... no |
| 19:50.16 | flexd | macdonalder: ah thats the thing yea |
| 19:50.18 | flexd | but i cant type anything |
| 19:50.46 | macdonalder | :S |
| 19:51.01 | flexd | just closed it and started again |
| 19:51.57 | milko_ | I want to make a cable to use my Neo as a USB host. How do I connect the wires? I just cut two A->mini B cables, do I connect green to green, and white to white, or green to white, white to green? |
| 19:52.08 | SpeedEvil | same to same |
| 19:52.19 | milko_ | Thanks |
| 19:52.36 | *** join/#openmoko angasule (n=angasule@190.176.201.106) |
| 19:52.43 | *** join/#openmoko Bumbl (n=Unknown@91-113-116-128.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
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| 19:55.10 | flexd | WEP does not seem to work either |
| 19:55.11 | flexd | same problem |
| 19:55.22 | flexd | so the problem lies in using encryption on the FR in general (with this image) |
| 19:56.27 | *** part/#openmoko bkruse (n=bkruse@76.73.154.120) |
| 19:56.42 | *** join/#openmoko bkruse (n=bkruse@76.73.154.120) |
| 19:56.52 | TAsn | flexd, at least you narrowed it down :) |
| 19:57.01 | flexd | :) |
| 19:57.03 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@221-7.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 19:57.09 | flexd | Up to some kernel hacking wiz to fix it now i gues :p |
| 19:57.11 | flexd | +s |
| 19:57.17 | TAsn | never played with wpa and wpa_supplaint |
| 19:57.27 | *** join/#openmoko ccube_ (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 19:57.34 | TAsn | but is there a way to test wep without wpa supplaint? |
| 19:57.39 | TAsn | suppliant* |
| 19:57.44 | *** join/#openmoko Subfusc (n=sin@kri3-1x-dhcp375.studby.uio.no) |
| 19:58.14 | tedo | TAsn: imho for wep you don't need wpa_supplicant |
| 19:58.33 | TAsn | tedo, that is obvious |
| 19:58.35 | TAsn | i meant |
| 19:58.56 | Bumbl | yes there is |
| 19:59.00 | Bumbl | just plain |
| 19:59.03 | Subfusc | iwconfig eth0 key <insert key> |
| 19:59.06 | Bumbl | ifupdown |
| 19:59.10 | TAsn | i wanted to know, and wrote it poorly, that is there a way to use wep with wpa suppliant and is he using it? |
| 19:59.17 | TAsn | if so, maybe testing without that app |
| 19:59.22 | TAsn | (wep without that app) |
| 19:59.36 | TAsn | maybe the app is the problem and not something else... |
| 19:59.54 | swc|666 | could be |
| 20:00.27 | swc|666 | btw... how stable is the WLAN on the FR? |
| 20:00.38 | swc|666 | any issues? |
| 20:00.49 | tedo | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:00.52 | flexd | TAsn: I'm just reading here. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_wlan |
| 20:00.56 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: EHLO |
| 20:01.02 | flexd | For the wpa_supplicant suggestion |
| 20:01.20 | Bumbl | swc|666, as it seems encryption is not working |
| 20:01.37 | TAsn | flexd, i mean, shut that thing off, and use wep without it. |
| 20:01.50 | *** join/#openmoko neurosys0 (n=neurosys@adsl-070-155-016-073.sip.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:01.57 | flexd | Problem is that my network is WPA2 encrypted, and sadly i still live at home, if i remove it my dad will complain thinking it's the most hazardous thing in the world and they'll get hacked and money stolen etc etc (and the list goes on) |
| 20:01.59 | TAsn | see if the app is broken or something mysterious |
| 20:02.04 | swc|666 | I mean aside from encryption... |
| 20:02.04 | flexd | will try |
| 20:02.11 | Bumbl | flexd, try the configuration of the second post http://freeyourphone.de/portal_v1/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=219 |
| 20:02.42 | Bumbl | swc|666, as far as I know it is working well |
| 20:02.50 | swc|666 | cool |
| 20:03.21 | Bumbl | someone of the forum above has successfully connected to wpa too |
| 20:03.25 | flexd | Bumbl: it's obvious that that will work, while something with wpa_supplicant makes it either unable to set the encryption, or something in the kernel does not permit it. |
| 20:03.26 | swc|666 | i wonder does the driver support injection? |
| 20:03.44 | flexd | I dont have a WEP encrypted network, so i cant try it atm (cba changing encryptions yet again :p) |
| 20:03.49 | tedo | flexd: you should have a look at the logfiles or enable verbose mode of wpa_supplicant |
| 20:03.59 | Bumbl | swc|666, as for now it doesn't even support monitor mode |
| 20:04.09 | swc|666 | really :/ |
| 20:04.20 | Bumbl | promocious mode is even harder to implement i think |
| 20:05.15 | Bumbl | * messed it up; Promiscuous Mode is monitor mode |
| 20:05.16 | swc|666 | i may try to use a USB card |
| 20:05.34 | flexd | tedo: im not sure there is a log |
| 20:05.38 | Bumbl | yes that might work |
| 20:05.42 | TAsn | Bumbl, damn, that thing is important :) |
| 20:05.42 | genki | WPA works with FR thought |
| 20:05.53 | flexd | I can run wpa_supplicant not as a deamon though |
| 20:06.36 | flexd | ioctl[PRISM2_IOCTL_HOSTAPD]: Operation not supported |
| 20:06.37 | flexd | ioctl[SIOCGIWSCAN]: Resource temporarily unavailable |
| 20:06.40 | flexd | Basically what comes out |
| 20:06.41 | flexd | Tons of it |
| 20:06.42 | Bumbl | TAsn, I have read on the mailinglist that it is a firmware limitation but that atheros will probably implement it in future |
| 20:07.39 | TAsn | Bumbl, i don't think there is a way that won't be a firmware limitation... (or driver) i mean it can't be hw... |
| 20:07.52 | tedo | flexd: so your wireless driver does not match your wpa_supplicant config |
| 20:07.56 | TAsn | flexd, don't you think that's the issue? :) |
| 20:08.13 | TAsn | well cya guys, gn. |
| 20:08.21 | flexd | tedo: that makes sense. |
| 20:08.34 | flexd | my wpa_supplicant config mentions nothing of a wireless driver though. |
| 20:08.41 | flexd | TAsn: nn |
| 20:08.43 | balrog-k1n | maybe because it's not a PRIMS2 :P |
| 20:08.45 | tedo | flexd: hostaps is imho only for prism chipsets |
| 20:09.04 | flexd | tedo: hmmm, so wpa_supplicant was compiled for a prism2 card |
| 20:09.12 | flexd | and jammed into a phone with no prism2 card |
| 20:09.12 | *** join/#openmoko nadio (n=nobody@about/philosophy/nadio) |
| 20:09.14 | flexd | Intersting :p |
| 20:09.16 | tedo | you need to specify that you use atheros driver |
| 20:09.32 | tedo | -Wsomething in the commandline i think |
| 20:09.49 | flexd | checking |
| 20:09.50 | Bumbl | -Wext |
| 20:09.54 | Bumbl | i think |
| 20:10.11 | flexd | can do -p for driver parameters |
| 20:10.20 | flexd | -D for driver name? |
| 20:10.34 | tedo | i think so |
| 20:10.44 | *** join/#openmoko edit_21 (n=whocares@87-194-38-189.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:11.17 | *** join/#openmoko digitalslave (n=digitals@12-217-12-190.client.mchsi.com) |
| 20:11.25 | flexd | adding -d atheros seemed to do nada, same errors |
| 20:11.29 | flexd | googles wpa_supplicant |
| 20:11.47 | tedo | http://hostap.epitest.fi/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=hostap.git;a=blob_plain;f=wpa_supplicant/README |
| 20:12.11 | Bumbl | flexd, which rootfs image do you use? |
| 20:12.30 | *** join/#openmoko Thegh (n=quaim@ip-85-197-140-56.lind-sata.dsl.bikab.com) |
| 20:12.56 | tedo | what is the name of the wireless driver, madwifi or is this the generic linux driver? |
| 20:13.23 | tedo | -> try -Dmadwifi or -Dwext |
| 20:13.29 | mjr | it isn't madwifi |
| 20:14.00 | tedo | so -Dwext should do the job |
| 20:15.04 | *** part/#openmoko genki (n=genki@dslb-088-066-252-208.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:21.04 | Wiedi | i just flashed the qtopiax11 image on my freerunner and am wondering how i can enter the pin number when the onscreen keyboard only show characters. any hint? :D |
| 20:21.40 | *** join/#openmoko Subfusc (n=sin@kri3-1x-dhcp375.studby.uio.no) |
| 20:22.03 | ccfly | that's my question as well |
| 20:22.09 | *** part/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 20:22.46 | ccfly | Also operator selection would be nice |
| 20:23.05 | ccfly | And I do know it's the open source world, where I can do it myself |
| 20:23.23 | ccfly | I'm only announcing an itch I can't scratch just now :> |
| 20:24.59 | Bumbl | flexd, and did you have success |
| 20:25.06 | Bumbl | http://sial.org/pbot/31485 |
| 20:25.27 | Bumbl | that is the output of the wpa_supplicant command |
| 20:26.22 | flexd | Bumbl: ah, what did you do? Just add -c/etc/w ? |
| 20:26.36 | tedo | if i want to play with the kernel, i need to apply the pathset to vanilla kernel 2.6.22.5? |
| 20:26.37 | Bumbl | wpa_supplicant -ieth0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf |
| 20:26.44 | tedo | (for GTA2) |
| 20:26.44 | flexd | Thats exactly what i did.. |
| 20:27.07 | tedo | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:27.08 | Bumbl | using the following image: |
| 20:27.09 | Bumbl | Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080704-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 20:27.46 | flexd | tedo: now it does alot of Input/output errors in addition to the operation not supported |
| 20:29.02 | tedo | flexd: thats bad, but the wireless driver is loaded? |
| 20:30.10 | *** join/#openmoko pjj (n=pjj@107-143-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 20:30.19 | *** join/#openmoko Gyb (n=Gyb@f053154049.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:31.45 | *** join/#openmoko lauscher (i=5079434d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e023a24d5343bfa3) |
| 20:32.38 | *** join/#openmoko The_Osterhase (n=unknown@6.233.80.212.static.versanetonline.de) |
| 20:33.22 | *** join/#openmoko Gnutoo (n=gnutoo@host142-133-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
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| 20:36.18 | *** join/#openmoko OJW (n=OJW@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:40.48 | flexd | I just found something genious |
| 20:40.49 | flexd | wpa_cli |
| 20:41.01 | flexd | You can see what it's doing in real time :) |
| 20:41.10 | Dave | :D |
| 20:43.02 | lauscher | hi |
| 20:43.42 | Bumbl | wpa_cli is nice |
| 20:44.21 | Gnutoo | hello, is there somebody that has already received his Freerunner? anyone from bearstech? i have some questions about the hardware guarantee(if it's an international guarantee),the power adapter(what kind of power adapter is it E.E+F C? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_power_systems )...) and if the hardware works well... |
| 20:44.48 | *** join/#openmoko The_Osterhase (n=unknown@6.233.80.212.static.versanetonline.de) |
| 20:48.32 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-152-1-66-195.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:49.18 | Bumbl | Gnutoo: it is an usb power adapter working with American British and European electric sockets, bearstech has to provide 24 months guarantee because they are an European shop, the hardware itself works well, the software works basically |
| 20:50.24 | Gnutoo | Bumbl, ok thanks a lot but is it an international guarantee? |
| 20:51.53 | Bumbl | if the freerunner is broken you might have to send it back to bearstech because fic guarantees afaik only 2 months and they have to handle it |
| 20:52.31 | Gnutoo | Bumbl, ok thanks a lot |
| 20:53.05 | Railer | do they warranty you self bricking? |
| 20:53.34 | mjr | prooobably not |
| 20:53.47 | mjr | but then you can't brick the neo by incorrect flashing |
| 20:53.47 | Dave | Railer! |
| 20:53.59 | mjr | you have to brick it with a brick, or something |
| 20:54.02 | Gnutoo | mjr, in this case you need the debug board |
| 20:54.14 | mjr | Gnutoo, yes, but then you can also unbrick it |
| 20:54.24 | Railer | anyone know where i can find a list of the software it will come with stock? |
| 20:54.58 | *** part/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@HSI-KBW-091-089-007-152.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 20:55.07 | Railer | will the GPS have GPS software? calendar? browser? |
| 20:55.14 | SpeedEvil | Railer: no |
| 20:55.27 | Railer | Dave where the hell are you, lets go for a beer! |
| 20:55.35 | SpeedEvil | Railer: If you're expecting it to be a functional phone - it's not really at the momnt |
| 20:55.51 | SpeedEvil | Railer: as to GPS - google tangogps |
| 20:56.02 | Bumbl | Railer: in the first 6 months they have to bring evidence that you bricked it and not a hardware/software failure/bug |
| 20:56.04 | Railer | so can it make a phone call? |
| 20:56.34 | SpeedEvil | Railer: There are variants of the software that can. |
| 20:56.50 | Bumbl | yes |
| 20:56.57 | SpeedEvil | Railer: the software isn't stable that you can expect every build to work. |
| 20:56.58 | Bumbl | and send sms |
| 20:57.00 | Railer | is the neo currently usable? or am i just buying a programming toy? |
| 20:57.15 | Bumbl | and receive; even with the shipped image |
| 20:57.16 | SpeedEvil | Railer: it's usable - to a very limited extent. |
| 20:57.33 | SpeedEvil | Railer: It is largely a programming toy at this stage. |
| 20:58.00 | Railer | lovely, how soon do you think anything is going to work? |
| 20:58.05 | Dave | Railer, where are you!? |
| 20:58.16 | Railer | Edmonton |
| 20:58.20 | Dave | Railer, come down to NYC :P |
| 20:58.21 | SpeedEvil | Railer: several weeks at the absolute least. |
| 20:59.00 | Railer | ok several weeks is fine, I was thinking 6 months to never is the issue |
| 20:59.30 | Railer | brother just left nyc for seattle |
| 20:59.37 | SpeedEvil | Railer: I wouldn't expect it to be a consumer ready phone before at the absolute earliest 6 months. |
| 20:59.50 | linuxxr | lots of advertizing |
| 21:00.03 | linuxxr | http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20080703/bs_nf/60618;_ylt=AiYYqG7fkKHxh9H_Yc2FyEaor7oF |
| 21:00.28 | linuxxr | plans on the gta03/ |
| 21:00.30 | Railer | well if it works a little and I have it first, that's all that's important |
| 21:00.31 | linuxxr | ? |
| 21:00.55 | linuxxr | computer shop frenzy;) |
| 21:01.37 | SpeedEvil | linuxxr: who knows if these are real or bull. |
| 21:01.37 | *** join/#openmoko leinir (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 21:01.45 | Railer | does notepad work? |
| 21:01.51 | SpeedEvil | linuxxr: /me wishes on actual prompt releases rather than just leaks. |
| 21:01.57 | SpeedEvil | Railer: what do you mean? |
| 21:02.21 | Railer | can i demo the kb? |
| 21:02.40 | leinir | Hey, anyone know how big the available application area is on ASU? :) |
| 21:02.45 | linuxxr | yea that right |
| 21:02.45 | SpeedEvil | Railer: the keyboard is a lot broken right now. |
| 21:02.50 | SpeedEvil | leinir: ? |
| 21:02.55 | Railer | is there a browser that wifi useable? does wifi even work? |
| 21:02.59 | SpeedEvil | leinir: you can install stuff to SD |
| 21:03.21 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 21:03.23 | SpeedEvil | Railer: basically - at the moment if you're not a programmer, wait a couple of months. |
| 21:03.47 | Bumbl | Railer: it works for some people but not for me |
| 21:03.51 | leinir | linuxxr: As in, the screen area available to applications - or, rather, how large is the screen area taken up by Illume :) |
| 21:03.51 | Gnutoo | Bumbl, wiat do you mean by european electric sockets...because for instance italy has not the same socket than france... |
| 21:03.54 | linuxxr | august software update |
| 21:04.12 | leinir | SpeedEvil: Gah, my bad - not space like that, screen realestate :) |
| 21:04.27 | Railer | well im a programmer, but would like some features |
| 21:04.29 | SpeedEvil | leinir: ah |
| 21:05.48 | leinir | i'm just playing around, but if you've ever seen a Tenori-On, you'll likely have some idea what i'm aiming for :) |
| 21:05.48 | SpeedEvil | Railer: At the moment, it's outperformed by the cheapest phone you can buy - as a phone. There is slightly functional other software. QEMU can emulate the phone. |
| 21:06.39 | nullpuppy | :( fso-image isn't building :( |
| 21:07.17 | nullpuppy | or, maybe it is completing, and its just some errors on the packages.. bah |
| 21:07.38 | Bumbl | Gnutoo: the one I got does have one which looks like B C E F G I think |
| 21:08.25 | leinir | So, anyone know it off hand, or or am i gonna look at screenshots with kruler? ;) |
| 21:08.43 | leinir | preempts the answer to that one by looking for screenshots ;) |
| 21:09.08 | Bumbl | i have to go; have a nice day |
| 21:09.28 | Gnutoo | Bumbl, so a lot of adapters comes with it when you buy it from bearstech? |
| 21:12.17 | Railer | son of a whore, ms install driver issues, brb |
| 21:12.43 | bkruse | ms is the problem :D |
| 21:13.25 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-152-1-35-166.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:13.40 | Railer | i'm running 4 computers right now, 1 vista, 2 xp, 1 ubuntu, gets a little confusing |
| 21:14.43 | leinir | Wow... That thing's kind of large - 66 pixels tall :) |
| 21:15.02 | loufoque | Railer: why are you running vista and xp? |
| 21:15.05 | leinir | Oh well, makes fair sense that it should be big, what with finger-control and such :) |
| 21:15.10 | bkruse | vista < xp <<<< ubuntu < debian |
| 21:15.16 | loufoque | why do you use 4 computers? |
| 21:16.12 | Gnutoo | hello, Bumbl has quit...has anyone else bought from bearstech and received his Freerunner? |
| 21:16.51 | *** join/#openmoko alexxy (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171) |
| 21:17.08 | Railer | ahh cause a lot of the stuff a do requires clean systems, and once job done rebuilt |
| 21:17.58 | *** join/#openmoko loafman (n=chatzill@pool-71-164-161-183.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:18.43 | Railer | I have like 20 valid xp licences i cycle through |
| 21:20.20 | *** join/#openmoko wurp2|away (n=wurp@65.111.180.216) |
| 21:21.15 | Gnutoo | Railer, why not using virtual machine: snapshot before,restore snapshot after |
| 21:21.22 | linuxxr | put slackware on everything |
| 21:21.40 | Gnutoo | Railer, or use dd if= of= to snapshot your hdd |
| 21:22.09 | leinir | linuxxr: Put slackware on a nokia 3210 ;) |
| 21:22.14 | Railer | vm's dont always work correctly, still not use to them |
| 21:22.23 | Gnutoo | ok |
| 21:22.46 | Railer | but I am starting to build my own special vm's |
| 21:23.12 | Gnutoo | Railer, wow...will it be free(as in freedom) ? |
| 21:24.08 | Railer | yes, once figured out |
| 21:24.23 | Gnutoo | ok |
| 21:24.45 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 21:24.54 | Railer | the other thing is the cpu speeds are not the best with vm's and sometimes I need the full cpu |
| 21:26.32 | Railer | like openmoko, you want a vm of ubuntu to then vm openmoko and qemu? gonna get ssslllloooowww |
| 21:27.04 | nullpuppy | hmm, anyone have any screenshots of the sms app in the current build? |
| 21:27.12 | nullpuppy | (stuff is still building locally) |
| 21:27.18 | *** join/#openmoko vale (n=vale@e179241167.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:27.19 | loufoque | Railer: xen is native speed |
| 21:27.30 | vale | hi |
| 21:27.38 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z6fd6.z.pppool.de) |
| 21:29.54 | *** join/#openmoko vale (n=vale@e179241167.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:30.00 | *** part/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182061078.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:33.38 | Gnutoo | Railer, openmoko is arm, your cpu is x86...so you must emulate all the arm cup...that's why it's slow... |
| 21:34.02 | Dave | Native slowness? :p |
| 21:34.03 | Gnutoo | Railer, kqemu speeds up things but that's for x86->x86 only |
| 21:34.22 | goodwill | what the current mail application in openmoko in asu and/or gtk+ |
| 21:34.24 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 21:34.24 | goodwill | anyone know? |
| 21:34.30 | Gnutoo | Railer, or mabe also x86-64 not shure |
| 21:34.46 | Railer | but understand it's cleaner and faster just to set up a new fresh unbuntu, not vm'ed |
| 21:35.14 | goodwill | bkruse: vista < xp <<<< ubuntu < debian < gentoo :-P |
| 21:35.15 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-152-1-26-136.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:36.32 | bkruse | goodwill: I used to <3 gentoo, and I go back occasionally :) |
| 21:36.46 | Railer | besides all the machines are running something, why share cpu cycles when I dont have to? |
| 21:36.58 | Railer | other then vm is cool of course |
| 21:37.01 | goodwill | bkruse: what happened man?? what happened to you :) |
| 21:37.02 | *** part/#openmoko Zero_Dogg (n=zerodogg@mandriva/developer/Zero-Dogg) |
| 21:38.45 | bkruse | goodwill: I had to recompile to many things that I didn't care about :P |
| 21:38.47 | webar7 | can I remote the screen of an openmoko device :) |
| 21:38.49 | Tsing2 | MokoMakefile, question. It doesn't say explicitly that gcc 4.2.3 *Won't* work, but it says you need 3.4 or 3.3 implying that it won't, but then again those could be minimums. |
| 21:38.49 | Tsing2 | Before I go rolling back gcc, do I really need to? |
| 21:39.00 | mjr | webar7, sure, install x11vnc and go |
| 21:39.12 | webar7 | it's cool plugging a in a keyoard |
| 21:39.19 | webar7 | usb and all that ... |
| 21:39.39 | mjr | bt keypads are more practical though for most purposes |
| 21:39.47 | webar7 | will the next hardware have dvi plug :) |
| 21:39.57 | webar7 | mjr ... yeah |
| 21:40.18 | webar7 | mjr x11vnc means anything support vnc could be the "display" |
| 21:40.41 | Tsing2 | Is there a core developer here I can target that question at? (anyone?) |
| 21:40.45 | webar7 | wonders why there isn't standalone hardware based on vnc |
| 21:41.02 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:41.10 | Tsing2 | I suppose I could just do it, but I'm told it's a very long build. |
| 21:41.24 | *** join/#openmoko torito (n=deepsigh@ti0034a380-dhcp0755.bb.online.no) |
| 21:41.28 | *** join/#openmoko nubn (n=nubn@82-171-124-207.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 21:41.29 | webar7 | like a roll up flexible plastic "minority report" style solar powered "dsiplay" to go with my phone |
| 21:41.51 | LionKMP | most linux distros provide 3.x GCC besides 4 |
| 21:41.56 | webar7 | I could display clothing on the screen and wear it as a sweater |
| 21:42.00 | LionKMP | you can install it without "rolling back". |
| 21:42.44 | LionKMP | Tsing2: ^ |
| 21:43.37 | *** join/#openmoko MannyTheMolecule (n=manny@77.209.21.12) |
| 21:44.35 | Tsing2 | ahh, thanks... tab completion on gcc gets me gcc, gcc-4.1, gcc-4.2 and some other stuff. I'll try the install as advertised and see what that does for me. |
| 21:44.59 | Tsing2 | (instal of gcc 3.4) |
| 21:45.01 | Tsing2 | s |
| 21:46.11 | Dave | I take it the device doesn't have a backup battery? :P |
| 21:47.29 | *** join/#openmoko Tig|_ (n=tigger@82.153.215.237) |
| 21:47.56 | Tsing2 | LionKMP: I'm happy now, thanks. |
| 21:49.11 | Tig|_ | btw going back to earlier conversations during the day I had been pissing about with my freerunner in the house (mainly with gps apps) and it took about a min to get first fix and that is a fresh flashing (ooer) |
| 21:50.30 | LionKMP | Tsing2: yw :-) |
| 21:54.16 | *** join/#openmoko sirius (n=xzz@user.skolelinux.no) |
| 21:57.56 | *** join/#openmoko linuxxr (n=brian@ip70-178-27-23.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 21:58.08 | *** join/#openmoko sandos (n=sandos@me-210-97-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 21:59.07 | Tsing2 | LionKMP: wget is on try 3 for rwhitby.net (5 minutes) know if that is common or if there is an alternative? |
| 21:59.27 | Tig|_ | 'ning all, I don't suppose anyone around here is familiar with the input method and handling on the freerunner / neo? |
| 21:59.30 | *** join/#openmoko sirius (n=xzz@user.skolelinux.no) |
| 21:59.30 | SpeedEvil | looks at rwhitby. |
| 21:59.40 | Tsing2 | maybe it's just busy? It could be with the phones coming out I guess. |
| 21:59.48 | Tsing2 | hey SpeedEvil |
| 21:59.55 | Tig|_ | also is tangogps.org a tad buggered or is it me? |
| 22:00.02 | SpeedEvil | Tig|_: in what way? |
| 22:00.05 | SpeedEvil | Tsing2: :) |
| 22:00.31 | Gnutoo | hello, i have a problem for building openmoko's qemu on gentoo with gcc-3.4.6...i tried to export the CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS -march=i486 as advised here: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=215594 but it didn't work |
| 22:01.11 | Tig|_ | SpeedEvil, which the input stuff or tangogps? tangogps can't be accessed from here and the input stuff is todo with a bluetooth keyboard and input in general on the 2007.2 image :) |
| 22:01.50 | SpeedEvil | Tig|_: I asssumed as you said tangogps was a tad buggered, you had an idea of in which ways. |
| 22:02.41 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes_ (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 22:03.21 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:03.40 | Tig|_ | SpeedEvil, tangogps is a lovely bit of work I have tried it around europe and was very handy :) but from here the website is down, I was wondering if it was for others |
| 22:04.03 | *** join/#openmoko GhannyTheGhost (n=manny@77.209.176.7) |
| 22:04.20 | SpeedEvil | Tig|_: what website? |
| 22:04.45 | Tig|_ | http://www.tangogps.org/ |
| 22:05.34 | *** join/#openmoko flexd_ (n=kek@79.160.12.127) |
| 22:05.59 | SpeedEvil | Up now. (for me) |
| 22:06.13 | Tig|_ | hmmm |
| 22:06.44 | Tig|_ | been down all day for me, oh well will investigate tomorrow :) |
| 22:07.08 | SpeedEvil | Tig|_: http://www.mauve.plus.com/tangogps_0.9.0.3-r1_armv4t.ipk |
| 22:09.05 | Tsing2 | I want to build my qemu, I want to build it now... I want to build my qemu, rwhitby's site won't tell me how~ (sung to 'bicycle') |
| 22:09.31 | SpeedEvil | needs to get a build back up. |
| 22:09.37 | ferric | does too. |
| 22:09.45 | Tsing2 | not now! |
| 22:10.02 | *** join/#openmoko kelvan_ (n=kelvan@85.127.91.60) |
| 22:10.03 | Tig|_ | SpeedEvil, ta for that :) :) had an earlier package but not that one, So not problems hitting it from there? |
| 22:10.12 | SpeedEvil | Tig|_: no. |
| 22:10.31 | Tsing2 | SpeedEvil: you can hit it? |
| 22:10.50 | SpeedEvil | I can access the site. |
| 22:10.53 | SpeedEvil | (tangogps) |
| 22:10.58 | Tsing2 | hmmm |
| 22:11.34 | Tig|_ | Tsing2, can you not access it? where are you based? (I can't hit it here) |
| 22:13.27 | Tsing2 | Tig|_: Ottawa, I get nslookup, 64.71.255.198, but I can't connect. |
| 22:14.14 | Tsing2 | oh well, I try later. |
| 22:14.18 | SpeedEvil | vFrom car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net (82.240.156.91) icmp_seq=6 Destination Host Unreachable |
| 22:14.59 | Tig|_ | in the UK I get sod all, no dns so it looks like an upstream dns issue |
| 22:15.25 | Tig|_ | but if you are getting that then it could be a slightly bigger issue with the server |
| 22:15.58 | Tsing2 | Boss has threatened to chain me to my desk, I have all evening to do this, damit. |
| 22:16.06 | SpeedEvil | It seems spotty here. |
| 22:16.10 | LionKMP | :D |
| 22:16.11 | Tig|_ | the odd bit is that SpeedEvil can hit it |
| 22:16.33 | Dave | Can you hit it? ;D |
| 22:16.38 | leinir | Oh yes, the Tenori-On i mentioned earlier - this is someone playing with it :) http://youtube.com/watch?v=hTEMsfA5HNc |
| 22:18.18 | *** join/#openmoko sirius (n=xzz@user.skolelinux.no) |
| 22:19.23 | SpeedEvil | make update-mokomakefile &&make update&&make openmoko-devel-image should build what at the moment? |
| 22:19.27 | leinir | http://youtube.com/watch?v=kff9b4x921I <-- Actually... Far better video, showing someone actually jamming on the thing :) |
| 22:19.42 | leinir | The trick is, of course - the openmoko platform might well be able to do something similar ;) |
| 22:19.48 | *** join/#openmoko FelixTheCat (n=tomking@cpe-24-28-24-180.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 22:21.03 | Tsing2 | leinir: that would be nifty. |
| 22:21.11 | leinir | Tsing2: Very :) |
| 22:22.25 | leinir | i mean, the UI is super-simple... We couldn't do it quite all the way, as we don't have multi-touch, and the tactility of the Tenori-On would be a touch on the difficult side to emulate as well, but we can do the UI itself, plus some easier session handling :) |
| 22:22.28 | Tsing2 | abort. I'll try again in a few hours. |
| 22:22.47 | Tsing2 | does UI's |
| 22:22.56 | Tig|_ | there is an app for a simple touchscreen keyboard I saw on the net |
| 22:23.23 | Tig|_ | on the openmoko underground type german neo1973 site |
| 22:23.51 | leinir | does UIs as well ;) |
| 22:24.20 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-169-244.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:24.35 | leinir | Link? :) |
| 22:25.01 | SpeedEvil | leinir: pulled |
| 22:25.01 | SpeedEvil | leinir: by youtube |
| 22:25.16 | leinir | SpeedEvil: Eh? |
| 22:25.29 | Tsing2 | leinir: I have an interface that connects and disseminates live aircraft surface movement data from 25 airports across the country, and all anyone really cares about is that it looks nice, hehe. |
| 22:25.39 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 22:26.33 | leinir | Tsing2: *giggles* Funky :) |
| 22:26.36 | Tig|_ | leinir, http://www.neo1973-germany.de/wiki/epiano |
| 22:26.43 | angasule | doesn't get what the tenori-on does |
| 22:26.52 | angasule | looks like an interface to hack the matrix |
| 22:27.09 | SpeedEvil | leinir: maybe it's something to do with my slow net. |
| 22:27.10 | leinir | angasule: It is a synthesiser :) |
| 22:27.23 | leinir | SpeedEvil: Potentially :) |
| 22:28.04 | leinir | i visited a con a couple of weeks ago where someone played it, some of the time jamming with a guy on a didgeridoo... It was really quite neat :) |
| 22:28.24 | leinir | http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xq5GHUKB4Y8 <-- video of just a bit of that :) |
| 22:28.48 | Tsing2 | didgeridoo's are awesome. |
| 22:28.53 | leinir | Very :) |
| 22:28.56 | Tig|_ | aye :) |
| 22:29.13 | angasule | the sound output is rather simple, though |
| 22:29.24 | Tig|_ | angasule, errm |
| 22:29.44 | Tig|_ | actually you can do quite a bit with them :) |
| 22:29.49 | angasule | maybe it was just that video :P |
| 22:30.15 | leinir | Yes, the video was neither shot nor chosen very well... Unfortunately, parts of that set were mindblowingly amazing stuff :) |
| 22:30.17 | Tig|_ | angasule, ah I was on about the didge :) |
| 22:30.20 | angasule | whenever I heard electronic music I'm reminded of something Asimov wrote, at least I think it was him |
| 22:30.20 | Tsing2 | There is an old movie called the Coca Cola kid about this guy trying to sell coke in some outback place in OZ. The best part of the movie is the commercial they make with digeridoo's |
| 22:31.25 | angasule | in the far future one of the protagonists hear music with what we would call normal instruments, and he finds it lacking in comparison with electronic music |
| 22:32.18 | leinir | angasule: *nods* Hehe, yes, sometimes you can get that feeling - but really, what i've found is that there's good music created with just about every instrument... and a lot of bad, or mediocre, stuff ;) |
| 22:32.35 | SpeedEvil | leinir: same with genre. |
| 22:32.41 | leinir | SpeedEvil: Indeed :) |
| 22:32.49 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-152-1-26-136.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:33.00 | Q_Continuum | I'm contemplating ordering a FreeRunner...but am unclear as to what's all working on the phone. From what I've found, it's capable of phone, and text, and has about a 12-hour battery life. |
| 22:33.07 | angasule | lately I've been hearing tango, mostly because of the dancing, though |
| 22:33.38 | SpeedEvil | Q_Continuum: it's at the moment mainly a work in progress rather than a functional object. |
| 22:34.14 | Q_Continuum | Does it work as a basic phone though? If it does that, and can handle text messages...I'll order one and start helpin :D |
| 22:34.28 | Tig|_ | Q_Continuum, it is capable of being a phone but at the moment you need an understanding girlfriend :) |
| 22:34.31 | Dave | So far, for me, it works fine in those areas. |
| 22:34.37 | Dave | haha :P |
| 22:34.39 | Q_Continuum | Tig|_: what do you mean by that? |
| 22:34.44 | Dave | ;D |
| 22:34.45 | Q_Continuum | For time, or the call issues? |
| 22:34.57 | Dave | mine beats me with her blackberry :P |
| 22:35.01 | SpeedEvil | Q_Continuum: some images work adequately, but if you don't stick with a known good version, you can expect it to randomly fail when ypgraded. |
| 22:35.18 | Tig|_ | "why don't you send me a smiley face" because it takes 18 bloody taps to do it as there is no t9 on the 2007.2 image |
| 22:35.37 | Q_Continuum | lol |
| 22:35.41 | rwhitby | Tsing2: there is an alternative location for MokoMakefile listed in the wiki page. www.rwhitby.net is offline cause the server has been saved from being engulfed by the fires in Southern California. |
| 22:36.02 | Tsing2 | rwhitby: cool, thanks. |
| 22:36.19 | Tsing2 | err, well, not so cool, but thanks. |
| 22:36.26 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@221-7.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 22:37.04 | Dave | :D |
| 22:37.10 | angasule | what does openmoko use for sound? alsa? |
| 22:37.12 | Tig|_ | Q_Continuum, the ASU is getting better all the time and will be very cool but not sane for use yet so you get the gtk 2007.2 which would be fine if it was not for the input method |
| 22:37.17 | Dave | aww |
| 22:37.24 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@80-121-17-222.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:37.40 | Q_Continuum | Tig|_: Dang. I was hoping it'd do basic stuff, guess I'll have to buy an el-cheapo |
| 22:37.44 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@221-7.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 22:37.59 | leinir | Tig|_: Beta scheduled for August sometime, yeah? :) |
| 22:38.18 | *** join/#openmoko christoos1 (n=matic@BSN-95-236-196.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 22:38.20 | leinir | (coinciding, by any chance, with Akademy 2008's mobile development day? :) ) |
| 22:38.33 | Tig|_ | Q_Continuum, I would have a freerunner and a £20 phone with £10 free credit atm :) best of both worlds |
| 22:39.00 | Tig|_ | leinir, the fabled ASU stands for August Software Update : |
| 22:39.01 | Q_Continuum | Tig|_: True. I'm in the US though. :P |
| 22:39.02 | Tig|_ | :) |
| 22:39.24 | leinir | *giggles* :) |
| 22:39.25 | SpeedEvil | Buy Freerunner at http://openmoko.com/ , or linked distributors. | Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates | Software means it's _NOT_ a stable phone, even for the expert user. This will change as more is developed. |
| 22:39.29 | leinir | April and August ;) |
| 22:39.44 | Dave | :D |
| 22:39.47 | Tig|_ | leinir, aye :) |
| 22:39.52 | Q_Continuum | SpeedEvil: that should be in the topic :P |
| 22:40.10 | Dave | :P |
| 22:40.11 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> Buy Freerunner at http://openmoko.com/ , or linked distributors. | Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates | Software means it's _NOT_ a stable phone, even for the expert user. This will change as more is developed. |
| 22:40.15 | SpeedEvil | Yes, yes it should. |
| 22:40.16 | Dave | smirks at leinir |
| 22:40.45 | Q_Continuum | sighs |
| 22:40.51 | Q_Continuum | I guess I'll have to get an el-cheapo then. |
| 22:40.57 | Q_Continuum | lol |
| 22:41.00 | leinir | giggles "Watch with them smirks, you might end up getting hugged" ;) |
| 22:41.33 | SpeedEvil | xteddy, hug leinir |
| 22:42.10 | Tig|_ | as a phone in my hand at this moment it makes calls and receives calls, it sends and receives text messages, power management is interesting but it is going to be one hell of a phone. |
| 22:42.30 | SpeedEvil | Tig|_: yeah. Hopefully. |
| 22:42.49 | SpeedEvil | just wishes the ASU thing had happened last year rather than just before release. |
| 22:42.56 | SpeedEvil | (or not happened at all) |
| 22:43.32 | Tig|_ | SpeedEvil, well it would only take a few bug fixes for me to shift to the qt/asu image now (and I tried it this morning) |
| 22:43.50 | SpeedEvil | Tig|_: yeah. I just mean it'd be nice if it was a stable phone as released. |
| 22:44.04 | TAsn | SpeedEvil, i agree with your second statement (the one in the brackets) :) |
| 22:44.22 | SpeedEvil | Tig|_: GTK was almost there - and with 4 more months of dev not spent on ASU, it'd presumably have been a usable phone at least on release. |
| 22:44.23 | Dave | :D |
| 22:44.24 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:44.31 | Tig|_ | SpeedEvil, aye but if you remember at the time things were not so simple :) I remember this from the openzaurus stuff too :) |
| 22:44.39 | TAsn | Tig|, isn't it terribly slow? |
| 22:44.50 | leinir | SpeedEvil: Indeed... It is unfortunate the change happened so late... But oh well, at least it actually happened :) |
| 22:45.34 | Dave | :) |
| 22:45.40 | Tig|_ | TAsn, ? the asu? program launches are a little laggy but if you tune some of the defaults it very responsive |
| 22:45.58 | TAsn | Tig|, nice to know :) |
| 22:46.17 | TAsn | so that's currently the best image? |
| 22:46.20 | leinir | Tig|_: Hmm... A guide to suggested tweaks up on the wiki would be useful :) Anything specific? Even stuff that might make sense as defaults? :) |
| 22:46.30 | TAsn | what about fso? will that replace asu? |
| 22:46.34 | Tsing2 | rwhitby: thanks for the link, building now, sorry about the fire. |
| 22:46.36 | Tig|_ | TAsn, well it was the one from the buildhost this morning |
| 22:47.27 | rwhitby | Tsing2: I'm in Australia, the server is in the US, the person who hosts the server is safe and so is his office (so far). |
| 22:47.31 | Tig|_ | leinir, the QT image is not in a stable state that is fit for usage atm the moment to tuning tips would be a little pointless at the moment :) |
| 22:47.37 | Dave | leinir, you playing with it too? :D |
| 22:47.43 | leinir | We using QuickTime now? ;) |
| 22:47.59 | Tig|_ | slaps leinir with a badger :) |
| 22:47.59 | Dave | haha |
| 22:48.06 | Dave | badger badger badger |
| 22:48.06 | OJW | SpeedEvil: it wouldn't be free software without multiple bitterly-competitive groups programming the same thing in different incompaible ways ;) "NIH" |
| 22:48.25 | TAsn | OJW, that's for sure. |
| 22:48.27 | leinir | Tig|_: Right, defaults can wait a bit then, yeah :) Developer-friendly defaults make better sense at the moment, of course :) |
| 22:48.28 | Tsing2 | rwhitby: :) and build complete. Pretty! |
| 22:48.29 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 22:48.36 | leinir | hugs the badger! ;) |
| 22:48.46 | TAsn | OJW, free also means letting stupid people choose ;0 |
| 22:48.56 | leinir | Dave: Unfortunately not yet - it's due to arrive Monday, so... we'll see then :) |
| 22:49.23 | Tig|_ | TAsn, this link will clear things up : http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ |
| 22:49.40 | TAsn | Tig|, i read this one. |
| 22:49.48 | TAsn | a long time ago though. |
| 22:50.03 | TAsn | i will read it tomorrow, gn (again). ;) |
| 22:50.38 | Tig|_ | TAsn, in that case yes the ASU will be taken over by the framework release which will get us all together on the same page :) |
| 22:50.50 | igor321 | as soon as the new framework is doing sms, the frontend is irrelevant |
| 22:51.07 | leinir | igor321: This will be a great day :) |
| 22:51.13 | SpeedEvil | hits a build failure in binary locale generation. |
| 22:51.31 | igor321 | leinir: that day is supposed to be 01.08. :) |
| 22:51.41 | leinir | igor321: A great day! :) |
| 22:51.45 | igor321 | 3 more weeks :) |
| 22:52.00 | leinir | in that case, i've a feeling that nifty things can potentially happen at akademy ;) |
| 22:52.29 | Tig|_ | I am going to feck off on holiday, let you lot sort out the bugs and flash to a new version when I get back :) |
| 22:52.45 | Tig|_ | kidding :) |
| 22:53.34 | Tig|_ | what I would love right now is something that I could submit bugs at and help with :) |
| 22:54.18 | Tig|_ | can't debug the 2007.2 image (please correct if I am wrong) as it is not in focus atm) |
| 22:54.43 | Tig|_ | can't debug the ASU as it is in alpha and not really ready for testing yet |
| 22:54.52 | igor321 | i don't think you can debug anything right now :) |
| 22:54.58 | SpeedEvil | kernel |
| 22:54.59 | Tig|_ | aye |
| 22:55.05 | SpeedEvil | u-boot |
| 22:55.06 | leinir | Too much flux :) |
| 22:55.17 | Dave | :D |
| 22:55.23 | Tig|_ | SpeedEvil, if I had the skill I would :) |
| 22:55.36 | Dave | leinir, hit me up if you need any help :) |
| 22:56.19 | Tig|_ | It has spurred me into learning how to make simple applets in python/gtk |
| 22:56.25 | leinir | Dave: You going to Akademy? :) |
| 22:57.27 | SpeedEvil | I haven't used the emulator |
| 22:57.29 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 22:57.46 | igor321 | is the qtopia theme in ASU customisable? |
| 22:58.01 | Tig|_ | I would love there be something I could pimp at Lugradio live :( |
| 22:58.10 | SpeedEvil | qtopia is back up since the 'oops - some code isn't GPL' thing? |
| 22:59.07 | leinir | Hmm... don't know... let's check the ftp |
| 22:59.35 | Tig|_ | SpeedEvil, well the code is still available from the usual sources, the trolltech website did not seem to be offering the image earlier but it is all probably legal bollocks connected with lawyers |
| 22:59.45 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 23:00.00 | SpeedEvil | Legal bollocks usually are connected to lawyers. |
| 23:00.06 | SpeedEvil | At least most of them. |
| 23:00.25 | Tig|_ | aye they should be outlawed. legal bollocks.... |
| 23:03.31 | *** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net) |
| 23:04.24 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:04.41 | leinir | hmm... can't find the ftp dir the qtopia images are supposed to be in, oh well ;) |
| 23:05.47 | Gnutoo | so the FSO release has a GUI...wow!!! but does it have a phone book or should i make my own phone scripts in python? does it have a console in order to launch the call scripts in case it has no phone book...? |
| 23:06.07 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 23:06.25 | SpeedEvil | I forgot my DSL was malfunctioning and was at 16K/second download speed. |
| 23:06.45 | SpeedEvil | I wish i hadn't blown away the OM build directory now to refetch. |
| 23:06.48 | Q_Continuum | lol |
| 23:07.25 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:08.00 | Dave | heehee |
| 23:08.09 | Dave | aww, poor speedy |
| 23:09.10 | Dave | goodwill, you around? |
| 23:12.22 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (n=fsteinel@pD9FBBFBA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:12.55 | Dave | If I wanted to change the defaults for which items were powered on upon startup, would it be as simple as altering their power_on states, upon init? |
| 23:13.04 | Dave | or is there a more proper way to accomplish this? |
| 23:14.17 | Tig|_ | Gnutoo, the FSO is the framework that everyone is working towards, it is all the behind the scenes things, the bits that people don't get famous for, the stuff that actually makes things happen. So no at the moment the FSO does not have all the features you would want as a phone but it is not even alpha yet. The fact that it makes damn good and stable phonecalls is a testament to the wonderful developers working on in :) The 2007.2 release the freerunn |
| 23:14.17 | Tig|_ | er ships with will do what you ask, and the ASU when released will bridge the gap from getting from the 2007.2 release towards the FSO and the future :) hope this has cleared things up :) I am not an OM dev I am just a user :) |
| 23:14.56 | *** join/#openmoko Ko_deZ (n=mt@084202123010.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 23:15.25 | Tig|_ | Dave, I suspect at the moment it is all /etc/init.d/ |
| 23:16.50 | cb22 | likes the FSO + 2007.2 idea |
| 23:17.15 | Gnutoo | Tig|_, i want FSO because of the battery life...but i also want phone calls...and as i don't remember by heart the numbers i need a system that can phone a very small numbers of phone numbers...so i wondered what was the way to achieve that... |
| 23:17.29 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@62.135.96.132) |
| 23:17.33 | cb22 | SHR |
| 23:18.02 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust710.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:18.37 | Gnutoo | Tig|_, and thanks for your response |
| 23:18.37 | Tig|_ | cb22, cool :) personally I prefer it for the apps and pim integration :) all i know is that really what we need at the moment is a stable phone that works before we flog it to, the albiet geeky, masses :) |
| 23:18.55 | sirius | Gnutoo: How's the battery life on FSO compared to ASU or OM? |
| 23:19.54 | Gnutoo | sirius, i do not have an openmoko yet but i was told that: Jul 03 23:53:32 <wurp2>Gnutoo: You can have good battery life (well, > 20 hours) right now if you install FSO |
| 23:20.06 | sirius | :-D |
| 23:20.28 | Gnutoo | sirius, there is a video of FSO at http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/FrameworkMilestone1.m4v |
| 23:20.37 | sirius | I'm leaving my phone on to test my battery life right now :-) |
| 23:20.50 | SpeedEvil | dave was claiming >20h battery life earlier |
| 23:21.14 | SpeedEvil | IIRC |
| 23:21.25 | macdonalder | wooo just paid for my phone :) |
| 23:21.37 | Tig|_ | the 2007.2 image does not enable power saving as default, prolly because it is a bit buggy |
| 23:22.09 | CVirus | >20h sounds awesome |
| 23:22.22 | Gnutoo | Tig|_, what do you mean by buggy? no suspend-resume? |
| 23:22.43 | Tig|_ | Gnutoo, the ASU and FSO will compliment each other as the both mature they will be merging :) |
| 23:23.12 | sirius | Gnutoo: It does suspend and resume |
| 23:23.22 | Tig|_ | Gnutoo, had times when it has not resumed but could have not gone into sleep properly |
| 23:23.32 | sirius | however, after it has resumed there's no sound |
| 23:23.33 | *** join/#openmoko MrTuttle (n=hklein@i59F74114.versanet.de) |
| 23:23.44 | Gnutoo | sirius, ok |
| 23:23.58 | Tig|_ | sirius, I only had that on scardycat images |
| 23:23.59 | sirius | a nice way to get the annoying click sound to go away :-) |
| 23:24.11 | Gnutoo | sirius, by suspend-resume you mean suspend to ram? |
| 23:24.17 | Tig|_ | sirius, gta01 or 02? |
| 23:24.33 | Dave | Eh? |
| 23:24.38 | Dave | :| |
| 23:24.38 | sirius | 02 |
| 23:24.45 | SpeedEvil | gnu{-: yes |
| 23:24.57 | Dave | Speedevil, I do another uptime test tonight then, with three devices. |
| 23:25.05 | sirius | Gnutoo: oh, maybe I'm wrong, yes, I mean to ram |
| 23:25.08 | Dave | Though I am still trying to figure out if there's a proper way of doing this ;) |
| 23:25.16 | Dave | (with the auto power on/off, upon boot) |
| 23:25.24 | SpeedEvil | Dave: what was the last result? |
| 23:25.33 | Gnutoo | so if only the screen is suspended and the gsm is still powered it works fine... |
| 23:25.44 | sirius | yep |
| 23:26.01 | Gnutoo | wow |
| 23:26.37 | SpeedEvil | Not only the screen - CPU too. |
| 23:27.19 | sirius | I haven't tested it too much yet, maybe this was the 1 out of 1000th time :-) |
| 23:27.51 | *** join/#openmoko RenaultR83 (n=Renault@AToulon-151-1-3-120.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:28.48 | sirius | the software's a bit slow some seconds after resuming |
| 23:29.39 | Gnutoo | RenaultR83, hello, i see you comes from france...in the case you bought an openmoko from bearstech i have a question...does the openmoko come with power socket adapter for multiple countried? |
| 23:29.54 | Gnutoo | s/comes/come |
| 23:30.18 | Dave | Speedevil, it's hard for me to judge by the devices alone when the fully charged state is obtained, furthermore it appears difficult for me to get them all to be in a booted, and ready to run state, with a fully charged cell in all of them. |
| 23:30.26 | Dave | Due to various issues. |
| 23:31.10 | Tig|_ | Gnutoo, I bought mine in the UK and it comes with what looks like an EU adaptor |
| 23:32.23 | Tig|_ | as in it looks like everyother plug I have with a FR plug on it :) |
| 23:32.41 | Gnutoo | Tig|_, so there are multiple plugs... |
| 23:33.09 | Tig|_ | nope the adaptor is multivoltage and had different connections :) |
| 23:33.46 | Tig|_ | you have slide on adaptors |
| 23:33.50 | Gnutoo | Tig|, do you have one like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Europlug.png |
| 23:33.52 | Tig|_ | to make the |
| 23:34.19 | Tig|_ | yep there is one of those in the box :) |
| 23:34.27 | Gnutoo | Tig|_, ok thanks a lot |
| 23:34.50 | Tig|_ | someone put up an image of the power adaptor |
| 23:34.58 | Gnutoo | Tig|_, i hope there will be the same with bearstech |
| 23:34.59 | Tig|_ | hang on I will find it |
| 23:35.04 | Gnutoo | Tig|_, ok thanks a lot |
| 23:35.47 | Dave | Gah |
| 23:36.17 | Tig|_ | well they all come from the same factory I suspect all boxes will be the same |
| 23:36.25 | sirius | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:GTA02ALL.png |
| 23:36.32 | Gnutoo | Tig|_, ok |
| 23:37.19 | Gnutoo | sirius, thanks i never thought to look at this picture...i'm stupid |
| 23:37.41 | Gnutoo | s/stupid/stupid some times |
| 23:37.59 | sirius | ;) |
| 23:38.18 | Tig|_ | sirius, ta for that I was still looking for that unboxing post :) |
| 23:38.47 | sirius | hehe, well, the getting started wiki page is quite useful ;) |
| 23:39.08 | Tig|_ | :) |
| 23:39.11 | angasule | what sound system does openmoko have? alsa? what is the 'sound card' like? does it have native Hz? bit depth? |
| 23:39.25 | sirius | alsa + pulseaudio |
| 23:39.31 | Dave | hvordan står det til med mine utenlandske venner? :D |
| 23:39.42 | sirius | Dave: openmoko-no :-) |
| 23:39.56 | Dave | AH :D |
| 23:40.08 | Dave | tusen takk |
| 23:40.22 | SpeedEvil | angasule: it's native 5.1 soundsytem with integrated subwoofer, and 5 12" drivers. |
| 23:40.36 | SpeedEvil | angasule: more seriously. |
| 23:40.40 | Dave | Speedevil, are we still talking about the GTA02? |
| 23:40.51 | sirius | SpeedEvil: using arts :P |
| 23:41.00 | angasule | SpeedEvil: pfft :D |
| 23:41.04 | SpeedEvil | angasule: it's one teeny speaker - and the soundcard can do 16 bit 48KHz stereo to the earphone socket |
| 23:41.29 | *** join/#openmoko blan (n=blan@dslb-088-065-224-197.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:41.31 | sirius | SpeedEvil: it's two! |
| 23:41.41 | SpeedEvil | angasule: or A2DP - though I never got that working. |
| 23:41.49 | sirius | well, err, are ;) |
| 23:41.59 | cb22 | or usb audiop |
| 23:42.03 | cb22 | in theory |
| 23:42.07 | Dave | Yeah, I noticed that last night, while playing back some digitally encoded music off the thing. :| |
| 23:42.07 | SpeedEvil | sirius: yeah - there is a tiny earpiece speaker too. |
| 23:42.20 | jOERG_rw | sirius: one earpice + spk??? :-D |
| 23:42.24 | angasule | looks up A2DP |
| 23:42.41 | SpeedEvil | cbrake_away: GSM! |
| 23:42.44 | Tig|_ | oh bollocks I was told I could deafen toddlers at 30 paces :( |
| 23:42.46 | sirius | no, one earpiece and two speakers |
| 23:42.54 | sirius | one on each side |
| 23:43.04 | jOERG_rw | sirius: nope! |
| 23:43.04 | cb22 | nope |
| 23:43.08 | cb22 | that was gta01 |
| 23:43.37 | Dave | Hei Joerg :] |
| 23:43.39 | SpeedEvil | (To clarify - this is not my clients problem - if I pressed tab it'd complete properly. I just keep assumign that I know how many letters I need to type before the : to get a unique user-ID) |
| 23:43.44 | jOERG_rw | Dave: hi |
| 23:43.52 | sirius | huh? so why is it holes on both sides? |
| 23:43.55 | Dave | Joerg, is it just one internal speaker (for the, what appears to be stereo outputs)? |
| 23:44.00 | effbiai | hvat device is the accelometers? |
| 23:44.06 | cab22 | there |
| 23:44.06 | effbiai | what* |
| 23:44.26 | angasule | wonders why they use 48KHz :/ |
| 23:44.27 | mmontour | sirius: because the gta02 re-used the same case as gta01 |
| 23:44.30 | Tig|_ | sirius, changing case moulds costs lots |
| 23:44.35 | SpeedEvil | effbiai: not great ones. LIS something |
| 23:44.36 | sirius | ahh |
| 23:44.42 | Dave | Yeah, listening to the playback last night I could have sworn it only had one speaker, instead of two! |
| 23:44.48 | SpeedEvil | effbiai: 16 milligee resolution. |
| 23:44.51 | jOERG_rw | Dave: 1spk, changed amp to mono |
| 23:44.58 | Dave | bah! :[ |
| 23:45.03 | SpeedEvil | effbiai: LIS302? |
| 23:45.12 | Dave | That's what it seemed like :\ |
| 23:45.13 | Dave | oh well |
| 23:45.18 | Gnutoo | by the way is the root password problem resolved in the FSO image? |
| 23:45.19 | Dave | That's what we have headphones for, right? :D |
| 23:45.31 | cb22 | throws a bunch of capacitors at jOERG_rw |
| 23:45.33 | jOERG_rw | Dave: right |
| 23:45.37 | effbiai | yeah.. but.. /dev/ ... |
| 23:45.41 | Tig|_ | Gnutoo, what root password problem? |
| 23:45.41 | SpeedEvil | Wifi went in place of the speaker. |
| 23:45.45 | Dave | ;) |
| 23:45.48 | Dave | hehe |
| 23:45.50 | jOERG_rw | ducks |
| 23:45.51 | cb22 | effbiai: /dev/input/event? |
| 23:45.53 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: don't suppose you can comment on 2 speakers in 03? |
| 23:45.55 | Dave | haha |
| 23:45.57 | sirius | the day I can swap my hifi with gta07... |
| 23:46.02 | Dave | good call, joerg ;) |
| 23:46.06 | SpeedEvil | has been looking at capacitors. Supercaps are annoyingly expensive. |
| 23:46.19 | Dave | sirius, I hear that model may have a flux capacitor, as well :D |
| 23:46.39 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: probably no 2 spk on 03 |
| 23:46.54 | Gnutoo | Tig|, Jun 11 00:29:06 <wurp2> GNUtoo: I haven't actually tried on my box, but I've read that people tried to change the root pwd and had some issue |
| 23:47.08 | jOERG_rw | look at wolson spec, we get more close in every device ;-) |
| 23:47.11 | cb22 | wants a gta04 |
| 23:47.15 | Dave | hooray! |
| 23:47.15 | jOERG_rw | *wolfson |
| 23:47.17 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: Oh well. |
| 23:47.25 | Dave | Decent camera lens? |
| 23:47.36 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: is hw design for 03 in progress, or finished? |
| 23:47.45 | SpeedEvil | Daviey: pribably not. |
| 23:47.54 | SpeedEvil | dave: |
| 23:48.09 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: not finished, no more comments ;-) |
| 23:48.14 | *** join/#openmoko slomo_ (n=slomo@e177177217.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:48.25 | cb22 | give me a s3c6400 already! |
| 23:48.26 | flexd_ | I vote the gta 0x (newer model!) should have a rfid tag reader |
| 23:48.30 | flexd_ | and all sorts of cool stuff |
| 23:48.37 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: k |
| 23:48.49 | flexd_ | near field communication, rfid, wlan, bluetooth, gps, accelerometers, 3g, more more |
| 23:48.56 | SpeedEvil | flexd_: all sorts of cool stuff... |
| 23:49.05 | SpeedEvil | Let's have a functional phone first. |
| 23:49.06 | Tig|_ | Gnutoo, just changed the root pw here no probs |
| 23:49.13 | flexd_ | SpeedEvil: basically all the cool gadgets imagine, in a phone. |
| 23:49.20 | Gnutoo | Tig|_, ok thanks a lot... |
| 23:49.24 | flexd_ | cool gadgets you can imagine* |
| 23:49.25 | SpeedEvil | I want proper accelerators. |
| 23:49.30 | flexd_ | proper gpu! |
| 23:49.32 | cb22 | throw in a gyro |
| 23:49.39 | flexd_ | that can show video/games/stuff |
| 23:49.39 | jOERG_rw | flexd_: WILL come FOR SURE, with GTAxxx |
| 23:49.41 | SpeedEvil | Where you specify the acceleration you want on the phone - none of this measuring. |
| 23:49.52 | jOERG_rw | flexd_: note the triple x |
| 23:49.52 | flexd_ | lol |
| 23:49.59 | Tig|_ | fuck it lets do the job properly lets throw in a space station :) |
| 23:50.13 | flexd_ | SpeedEvil: gta 0000 with a rocket engine?/hover-capabilities? |
| 23:50.16 | cb22 | and a v12, no punt v8 |
| 23:50.21 | cb22 | puny* |
| 23:50.25 | SpeedEvil | Gyros are probably going to hit in a big way in 2-3 years. |
| 23:50.55 | SpeedEvil | At the moment - you're looking on of the order of $50-100 for 3 axis of gyros. And $2 for 3 axis accelerometers. |
| 23:51.47 | SpeedEvil | Real volume should make the price drop lots. |
| 23:52.04 | cb22 | s curious as to how many fr have been produced |
| 23:52.04 | jOERG_rw | well a decent lasergyro will eat up some power |
| 23:52.25 | cb22 | jOERG_rw: so add in a 4000mah lipoly battery |
| 23:52.27 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: not laser |
| 23:52.44 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: the MEMs gyros are comparatively non-sucky |
| 23:52.51 | jOERG_rw | SpeedEvil: dunno better ones |
| 23:53.01 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: 0.6 degrees/sqrt(Hz) noise. |
| 23:53.23 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: they make even the best accels - with 150 uv/sqrt(Hz) look sucky. |
| 23:53.31 | SpeedEvil | jOERG_rw: they make even the best accels - with 150 ug/sqrt(Hz) look sucky. |
| 23:53.43 | Tig|_ | erm not meaning to troll but just looked at the current quickstart guide for the freerunner |
| 23:54.06 | Tig|_ | all those shots are from the asu/qt release |
| 23:54.08 | jOERG_rw | we warned you ;-) |
| 23:54.30 | jOERG_rw | don't look there ;-) |
| 23:55.22 | Tig|_ | oh it is going to be a long month |
| 23:55.25 | jOERG_rw | so what? |
| 23:55.55 | Dave | hmm |
| 23:56.38 | Gnutoo | Tig|, can you still login with a blank password? |
| 23:56.42 | Gnutoo | Tig|, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/017187.html |
| 23:56.47 | Dave | gyros, accelerometers, eh? |
| 23:56.54 | Dave | rocket powered mobile devices, huh? |
| 23:57.02 | Dave | laser guided pdas? |
| 23:57.23 | Tig|_ | well the slashdot masses and the people who have been waiting, like myself, will be be looking to the wiki to help understand the gtk software stack which is not obvious |
| 23:58.09 | jOERG_rw | Tig|_: sounds like a valid point |
| 23:59.09 | jOERG_rw | isn't michael shiloh mentioned to be the one to contact about issues like this? |
