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| 00:37.29 | Pjj | the GPS application can it have an offline map from a specific country? (aka that you can use the application without internet acces) |
| 00:39.36 | SpeedEvil | There isn't an official one. |
| 00:39.45 | SpeedEvil | The most polished one that exists is tangogps |
| 00:40.01 | SpeedEvil | This is simply a 'moving map' application. |
| 00:40.14 | SpeedEvil | The problem isn't really the application, it's the data. |
| 00:40.35 | SpeedEvil | Getting the rights to use existing maps is _expensive_. |
| 00:40.39 | Pjj | can you have the map data for let's say one country on the freerunners SD card? so you don't need internet |
| 00:40.58 | Pjj | the data from openstreetmap.org |
| 00:41.04 | SpeedEvil | Not really in much detail. |
| 00:41.28 | SpeedEvil | A gigabyte for normal sized countries isn't really very high res |
| 00:42.21 | SpeedEvil | Say a thousandKm * a thousand Km. |
| 00:42.41 | SpeedEvil | You get the highest zoom tile being about a pixel every 200m or so. |
| 00:43.18 | Pjj | well my country isn't that big |
| 00:43.22 | Sonicadvance1 | There is no application yet to show just the streets of where you're at yet? |
| 00:43.24 | Pjj | (Holland/Netherlands) |
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| 00:43.49 | SpeedEvil | Sonicadvance1: yes - tangogps works well for that - online. |
| 00:44.10 | Sonicadvance1 | What Language is tangogps written in? |
| 00:44.43 | SpeedEvil | pjz: In that case it may just work for you. .nl is both tiny, and has had a dump of a nice database into OSM. |
| 00:46.09 | raster | SpeedEvil: you would get much more than that. 1000kmx1000km @ 1pixel per 200m is 5000x5000 pixels... |
| 00:46.22 | raster | you dont account for compression |
| 00:46.36 | raster | but even without any - its a map so 8bpp is all you need |
| 00:46.39 | Pjj | SpeedEvil, thanks for the answers :) |
| 00:46.43 | raster | (16/24bpp is overkill) |
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| 00:46.59 | raster | so thats about 24mb there |
| 00:47.08 | raster | of course not including overview tiles |
| 00:47.21 | raster | so add 33% for all the zoom out tiles |
| 00:47.35 | raster | and thats without compression |
| 00:47.42 | raster | halve it at least for compression |
| 00:48.06 | raster | so... 16mb for 1000kmx1000km@1pixel every 200m |
| 00:48.23 | raster | (give or take) |
| 00:49.40 | raster | admittedly 1000km square isnt much |
| 00:49.53 | raster | and 200m/pixel is not so great detail |
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| 00:53.35 | dcordes_ | raster: how is the glamo driver situation? |
| 00:53.46 | raster | what do you want to know? |
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| 01:01.09 | jOERG_rw | raster: moo |
| 01:02.11 | raster | jOERG_rw: boo |
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| 01:03.03 | dcordes_ | raster: you had several problems with the performance thing |
| 01:03.41 | raster | dcordes_: not very detailed there. :) |
| 01:03.49 | dcordes_ | at leanvm |
| 01:03.51 | dcordes_ | nvm |
| 01:04.13 | raster | one major problem is bus bandwidth to video ram |
| 01:04.19 | raster | and no driver will fix that |
| 01:04.50 | raster | others are that not everything is accelerated that can be, but you're in the land of diminishing returns already with respect to driver accel |
| 01:05.02 | SpeedEvil | The simple solution is to present the UI as a mpeg-4 stream. |
| 01:05.08 | SpeedEvil | And away goes the bus problem. |
| 01:05.57 | raster | instead you need to encode something as mpeg4 |
| 01:06.16 | raster | guess which is worse? |
| 01:06.40 | SpeedEvil | Meh. You're so negative. |
| 01:06.42 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 01:06.56 | raster | :-P |
| 01:07.22 | SpeedEvil | wishes hardware decisions were easy to reverse. |
| 01:07.37 | _charly_ | hmm... realtime video user interface... sounds nice :) |
| 01:07.43 | _charly_ | hi :) |
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| 02:08.29 | SirBob1701 | does text messaging work in the asu? |
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| 04:50.07 | Dave | How is everyone, tonight? |
| 04:53.27 | mbuf | morning |
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| 04:55.27 | juri_ | morning. :D |
| 04:56.21 | raster | smelly |
| 04:57.12 | juri_ | i'm still beating myself senseless with an assembly book. (osmosis! osmosis! osmosis! work, damnit!) |
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| 05:00.58 | mwester | Skip the books, start coding already! |
| 05:01.59 | goodwill | you know what the problem is with the world? |
| 05:02.06 | mwester | Yes. |
| 05:02.11 | mwester | They don't listen to me. |
| 05:02.13 | juri_ | not enough programmers. :) |
| 05:02.30 | goodwill | no |
| 05:02.36 | goodwill | I do not have a FreeRunner |
| 05:02.48 | goodwill | see how simple |
| 05:02.59 | goodwill | I get one...the world has no more problems |
| 05:03.07 | goodwill | anti-climatic? sure? |
| 05:03.14 | goodwill | no special effects? sure... |
| 05:04.21 | juri_ | meh. its a phone, not an agenda. :) |
| 05:04.32 | raster | mwester: but we dont want to listen to you! :) |
| 05:04.37 | juri_ | that said.. its part of my agenda to use said phone.. :) |
| 05:04.42 | raster | juri_: arm asm? or x86? |
| 05:04.44 | goodwill | juri_: I disagree...its a concept |
| 05:04.49 | juri_ | (free software for the win!) |
| 05:05.02 | goodwill | juri_: why assembly again? |
| 05:05.05 | juri_ | raster: x86. i don't work on this project. :P |
| 05:05.13 | juri_ | (why am i here?) :) |
| 05:05.56 | juri_ | i'm in the middle of documenting some rather evil kernel stack manipulation in entry.S for linuxPMI. all the relevent code is written in assembly. |
| 05:06.24 | raster | juri_: ewwww. x86 asm. now that make me feel dirty just thinking of it |
| 05:07.00 | juri_ | raster: you should see x86_64 assembly in entry.S. they massively abused macros there. now i know what a beginner reading my C code feels like. |
| 05:07.04 | goodwill | raster: you scrub and scrub and it just won't come off eh? |
| 05:07.36 | raster | goodwill: i know... it's like a stain on my life! |
| 05:08.15 | goodwill | raster: so now I give n00bs here yoru speech about asu, gtk+ and the rest when they ask...;) |
| 05:08.21 | goodwill | raster: you shoudl get royalties |
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| 05:08.37 | raster | hmm |
| 05:08.41 | raster | which one was that? |
| 05:08.41 | raster | :) |
| 05:08.52 | raster | i just whip these things out of my butt |
| 05:09.08 | goodwill | raster: that rant about how its about dbus and python and gtk and qt and elf and etc |
| 05:09.42 | tonyg | good morning all. i've not checked in in several months; what news on GTA1 suspend/resume/batterylife? |
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| 05:09.51 | mwester | 42 |
| 05:09.56 | raster | i might vaguely remember |
| 05:09.57 | raster | :) |
| 05:10.10 | goodwill | raster: you do not have to... |
| 05:10.56 | goodwill | so what FooCamp is invitation only |
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| 05:11.34 | juri_ | is that anything like ninjacon? :) |
| 05:11.41 | goodwill | who knows |
| 05:11.42 | goodwill | maybe |
| 05:12.27 | raster | bah |
| 05:12.29 | raster | foo shmoo |
| 05:12.55 | goodwill | exactly |
| 05:12.59 | goodwill | foo!!! shmoo!!! |
| 05:13.04 | juri_ | to find out where it is, you must kill your master, and his armies, in hand to hand combat. and then when you get there, you won't know it, because you won't see any of the other ninjas.. |
| 05:13.13 | goodwill | ok time to try to buidl fso |
| 05:13.59 | juri_ | saves on hotel reservation fees, however. none of the staff will ever see you to kick you out: you're a ninja! |
| 05:14.54 | raster | tries to find a good mp3 stream to ri.. err listen to |
| 05:15.33 | goodwill | contemplates |
| 05:15.38 | goodwill | how does one build fso |
| 05:17.24 | alphabeat | raster: http://img.7clams.org/aud/7/Herb%20Alpert%20And%20The%20Tijuana%20Brass%20-%20Spanish%20Flea.mp3 |
| 05:17.34 | alphabeat | found a good one |
| 05:18.39 | raster | bah |
| 05:18.51 | raster | nuffin |
| 05:18.57 | raster | next di.fm channel... |
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| 05:22.09 | goodwill | recompiles kernel with mtd support |
| 05:25.08 | goodwill | zee beauty of gentoo |
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| 05:27.46 | goodwill | raster: any idea how make an fso image from scratch? |
| 05:27.54 | raster | no idea |
| 05:27.58 | raster | never looked at fso |
| 05:28.02 | raster | dont do anything with it |
| 05:34.34 | goodwill | mickey|sofa: hi. any instructions out there on how to build and fso image? |
| 05:34.50 | ljp | first you get the bit flour. add a dash of cpu cycles |
| 05:35.10 | Dave | Hello goodwill. |
| 05:35.20 | goodwill | Dave: hi |
| 05:35.29 | Dave | Uh oh, looks like I have awakened the Juri. |
| 05:35.55 | goodwill | Dave: you fool!!! you killed us all!!!! |
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| 05:37.08 | juri_ | dave: don't worry, i'm currently distracted with an assembly book. :P |
| 05:39.13 | Dave | Excellent! |
| 05:42.31 | *** join/#openmoko Infinyte (n=Infinyte@66-146-251-206.gtmc.net) |
| 05:42.53 | Infinyte | So.. |
| 05:43.01 | Infinyte | Where can I buys me some Freerunnerz? ;D |
| 05:43.03 | Infinyte | In the USA. |
| 05:43.16 | goodwill | Infinyte: we do not know yet |
| 05:43.20 | Dave | heh |
| 05:43.22 | Infinyte | I'm guessing no where. >_> |
| 05:43.22 | Infinyte | Ah. |
| 05:43.34 | Infinyte | It's funny |
| 05:43.35 | Infinyte | On the site |
| 05:43.41 | Infinyte | It's all "Buy from a destination near you!" |
| 05:43.43 | Infinyte | And I'm all |
| 05:43.50 | Infinyte | :< I'm not in Asia or Europe. |
| 05:44.16 | Infinyte | Haha, I'm spamming. Sorry, I just got a promotion so I'm hyper. :D |
| 05:44.25 | Zoup | In> > Dear customer,9~ |
| 05:44.26 | Zoup | > > |
| 05:44.26 | Zoup | > > You only have 2 servers under the account of NRZ and i can ping both of |
| 05:44.31 | Zoup | wow , sorry |
| 05:44.36 | Zoup | wrong place to paste :)) |
| 05:44.39 | Infinyte | Haha |
| 05:44.46 | Zoup | dont kick me! :D |
| 05:44.52 | Infinyte | *Kicks you* |
| 05:45.00 | Zoup | ouchs! |
| 05:45.05 | Infinyte | Muhahaha. |
| 05:45.19 | Infinyte | So, only Black Freerunners? |
| 05:45.22 | Zoup | Infinyte: i was going to say : yes ,shopping is in very bad situation |
| 05:45.54 | Zoup | Infinyte: any idea when the openmoko store will be open , do you have more options to buy ? easier/faster delivery?/ |
| 05:45.58 | Dave | Should I anodize my personal one? |
| 05:46.07 | Dave | Fuschia, anyone? :D |
| 05:46.07 | Infinyte | Not that I'm aware of. :< |
| 05:46.55 | juri_ | zoup: i heard on the 4th, but don't quote me. |
| 05:47.17 | Dave | Don't quote Juri. |
| 05:47.21 | Infinyte | So expensiveee. >_< |
| 05:47.22 | Zoup | JURI SAYS IT WILL BE OPEN ON 4th , my new blog post subject |
| 05:47.29 | Infinyte | WHAT? |
| 05:47.31 | Dave | :P |
| 05:47.38 | Infinyte | Juri says it'll be out on the 4th! |
| 05:47.42 | Infinyte | :D |
| 05:47.47 | Zoup | call CNN and tell them! |
| 05:47.50 | Infinyte | Obviously fact now. |
| 05:47.51 | Infinyte | KAY |
| 05:47.53 | Dave | Fuck CNN. |
| 05:48.01 | Infinyte | What's their number? |
| 05:48.01 | Zoup | Dave: BBC ? fox ? |
| 05:48.04 | juri_ | zoup: go ahead. this isn't my project. and i don't care about the freerunner anyways. i already have two neo1973s. ;P |
| 05:48.19 | Zoup | juri_: why two ? |
| 05:48.19 | Infinyte | Pfft, Wifi>You |
| 05:48.27 | Infinyte | Gah, be right back. Pizza~ |
| 05:48.30 | Zoup | juri_: do you have any idea how store will look like ? |
| 05:48.32 | juri_ | zoup: so i always have one that works. :) |
| 05:48.41 | Zoup | juri_: bad news! :D |
| 05:48.50 | juri_ | is actually, like, USING these things. :P |
| 05:49.03 | juri_ | i even got to phone interview with the FSF on mine. :D |
| 05:49.33 | Infinyte | Nevermind, still cold. |
| 05:49.35 | juri_ | thats appropriate usage of a mostly free software phone. |
| 05:51.59 | Infinyte | The Freerunner's GPS is free/open too isn't it? |
| 05:52.12 | Infinyte | >Knows nothing about GPS'< |
| 05:52.34 | juri_ | close enough. |
| 05:53.28 | mmontour | The Freerunner GPS communicates over a serial port using a documented protocol. The implementation within the GPS module itself is closed. |
| 05:54.04 | juri_ | i do hate that the frerunner is as free software as one can legally get in the US. i paticularly don't like the 'you must have closed software to protect the end users from themselves' thing our GOVT insists on. |
| 05:54.21 | juri_ | but, thats a battle outside the scope of this project. |
| 05:54.24 | Dave | Right. |
| 05:54.30 | Dave | Like the SIM, for example. |
| 05:54.34 | Dave | the stack code that is |
| 05:54.49 | Dave | makes some sense from the provider's perspective, that is. |
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| 05:58.11 | rwhitby | is grateful that GSM firmware is closed |
| 05:58.24 | Infinyte | Howscome? |
| 05:58.47 | rwhitby | When I need to make an emergency phone call, I don't want some idiot hacking a phone to be able to bring down the GSM network I'm using. |
| 05:58.54 | Infinyte | http://openmoko.com/product-qa.html < I see typo. >_> |
| 05:59.08 | Infinyte | Ah. Yeah that wouldn't be good. >_> |
| 05:59.36 | rwhitby | (I know the GSM protocol pretty well, and know how easy it would be to break it if you open gsm firmware was freely availably) |
| 05:59.45 | juri_ | rwhitby: sorry, thats not a valid argument in my book. make denial of servicing a gsm network illegal. its not like you cannot locate people doing it: they're using an RF device! |
| 05:59.57 | juri_ | you could also try securing the GSM protocol... |
| 06:00.30 | rwhitby | juri_: in an alternate reality, where making a phone call is not a life-and-death scenario, I would agree with you. |
| 06:00.30 | Zoup | juri_: 'client side security' is always unsafe |
| 06:00.44 | juri_ | anyways, my argument is moot. its simply illegal to have an opensourced stack. |
| 06:00.57 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E7E1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:00.59 | rwhitby | (e.g. if you google me you'll find that I'm quite involved in opening the firmware of consumer devices) |
| 06:01.08 | juri_ | rwhitby: nothing stops them from simple signal jamming as well. assuming cellphones are useful for emergencies is a failure in thinking. |
| 06:01.53 | juri_ | its possible under our current system.. but it limits our freedoms. i'm against that. :/ |
| 06:02.19 | Dave | :o |
| 06:02.27 | rwhitby | assuming cell phones are not useful for emergencies is ignoring reality. |
| 06:02.54 | rwhitby | you're free to create your own cellular network in the unlicensed space. |
| 06:03.03 | juri_ | reality still says i can jam your frequency. simple RF. |
| 06:03.03 | Dave | First we could try securing juri... |
| 06:03.05 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@201.82.9.119) |
| 06:03.23 | Dave | fetches a white coat... |
| 06:03.34 | juri_ | heck, there are people who sell frequency jammers, even. |
| 06:03.34 | rwhitby | sure you can jam, but your range is limited. |
| 06:03.43 | rwhitby | hacked firmware can take out a whole cell. |
| 06:03.59 | rwhitby | (or possibly range of cells if done properly) |
| 06:04.18 | juri_ | either fix what can be fixed security wise, or make someone who does such logged, track them down, and fine them a shitload. |
| 06:04.45 | rwhitby | juri_: I say again, feel free to create your own free cellular network. |
| 06:04.52 | Dave | Yep! :D |
| 06:05.01 | Dave | Who said it had to be free? ;) |
| 06:05.02 | Dave | :P |
| 06:05.32 | rwhitby | the current one works with the restrictions in place, and there is no business imperative to spend the trillions of dollars to change it's security model just so someone can have open gsm firmware. |
| 06:05.37 | juri_ | rwhitby: sorry if i stepped on a nerve. i'm a zealot, its a ocupational hazard. :) |
| 06:05.57 | Infinyte | I'm an occupational hazard/ |
| 06:06.15 | rwhitby | juri_: no nerve :-) |
| 06:06.28 | juri_ | no, its not a buisness imperitive. its a moral imperitive based on the rules set down by our founding.. blah blah blah. you know the speil. :) |
| 06:06.44 | rwhitby | heh, pure zealot :-) |
| 06:06.52 | juri_ | #includes standard constitutional rant #5. :) |
| 06:07.01 | Infinyte | Uhm. |
| 06:07.10 | Infinyte | Isn't that the one about the monkeys in the closet? |
| 06:07.20 | Infinyte | I think you meant #53 |
| 06:07.24 | juri_ | rwhitby: yep. :) |
| 06:07.50 | rwhitby | is not bound by your constitution, and is sometimes glad for it :-) |
| 06:08.05 | Dave | juri - yeehaw. |
| 06:08.05 | juri_ | welcome to the danger of opening up most of your phone. this is now the prefered model of phone for free software zealots everywhere. |
| 06:08.38 | juri_ | actually, the neo1973 is the prefered model. the GPS is more 'open', in ways. :) |
| 06:08.38 | rwhitby | openmoko is a good model - open up absolutely everything that can't bring down the network, but no more. |
| 06:09.06 | rwhitby | juri_: do you run an open bios in your desktop or laptop? |
| 06:09.15 | rwhitby | and an open firmware in your graphics card? |
| 06:09.20 | Infinyte | Whot |
| 06:09.22 | juri_ | rwhitby: on my servers, yes. |
| 06:09.23 | rwhitby | and an open microcode in your watch? |
| 06:09.27 | Infinyte | You can get an Open Bios?:O |
| 06:09.37 | rwhitby | and open hardware in your pacemaker? |
| 06:09.37 | Dave | smells the trollbait |
| 06:09.39 | juri_ | i'm working with the coreboot project to open the bios on a model of laptop. |
| 06:09.40 | mwester | linuxbios IIRC |
| 06:09.58 | juri_ | mwester: it changed names. |
| 06:10.01 | Infinyte | Ah, Coreboot |
| 06:10.12 | *** join/#openmoko ccube_ (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 06:10.16 | Dave | moreroot :D |
| 06:10.36 | rwhitby | there's always a line you draw. some people draw it in different places. zealots try and convince people that where they have drawn their own line is wrong :-) |
| 06:10.42 | juri_ | rwhitby: the troll is strong with you. your point is valid, and my real response is its a "True Zealot"'s duty to battle these issues every day. :) |
| 06:11.25 | juri_ | you must push that line along. otherwise, you're living with non-freedom for the purpose of convenience, which is wrong. :) |
| 06:11.46 | *** join/#openmoko Home__ (n=Home@193.188.117.67) |
| 06:11.57 | rwhitby | juri_: as I said before, please check my open source credentials as far as opening firmware and gpl goes. www.nslu2-linux.org is a good start. BTW, you're a good zealot, being able to remain calm and rational in the face of my taunts :-) |
| 06:12.07 | juri_ | i draw that line at "everything i can handle". |
| 06:12.16 | juri_ | thanks. i believe you. :) |
| 06:12.17 | Dave | pfft |
| 06:12.18 | rwhitby | I expect we could have a good discussion over a beer or two. |
| 06:12.34 | rwhitby | sorry Dave :-) |
| 06:12.41 | Infinyte | Hai |
| 06:12.44 | Infinyte | Personguy |
| 06:12.44 | juri_ | i'm kinda used to it, to be honest. being a zealot has those hazards. :) |
| 06:12.46 | Dave | I'd sit and moderate, with some sort of poppin' snack in hand :) |
| 06:13.03 | Infinyte | What's the fastest Firmware for the Linksys WRT routers? |
| 06:13.10 | rwhitby | openwrt |
| 06:13.12 | Dave | heh |
| 06:13.55 | juri_ | rwhitby: i don't file those under taunts. they're positions of moral compromise. most zealots don't see that. |
| 06:14.01 | Dave | I'm more of a The source is half-closed, person :P |
| 06:14.01 | Infinyte | Faster than Tomato? |
| 06:14.09 | Dave | smirks at Juri. |
| 06:14.13 | rwhitby | and to keep things on topic, openwrt on a router with a usb port can be used to flash and usb network a Neo |
| 06:14.27 | rwhitby | juri_: ones chooses what one considers morals |
| 06:14.38 | juri_ | if you're not paying attention to those spots, you're compromizing. :) |
| 06:15.00 | rwhitby | superimposing your morals on someone else becomes a religious exercise. |
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| 06:15.15 | juri_ | you can't force. dosent work that way. |
| 06:15.47 | rwhitby | juri_: that we can agree on :-) |
| 06:15.49 | juri_ | you just try to provide an example, with documented reasoning. its for others to decide whether those reasons make sense to them. |
| 06:16.13 | rwhitby | juri_: you've just disqualified yourself from being called zealot :-) |
| 06:16.27 | juri_ | Damnit. :P |
| 06:16.34 | Dave | hahaha |
| 06:16.50 | Dave | All aboard! |
| 06:17.01 | Dave | toot toot |
| 06:17.18 | Zoup | Dave: wait for me! |
| 06:17.26 | Dave | haha, okay :P |
| 06:17.41 | Zoup | Dave: god , thanks! |
| 06:17.53 | rwhitby | runs open source "bios" on all his embedded router and NAS devices ;-) |
| 06:18.07 | Dave | Wow, you're so cool. |
| 06:18.08 | juri_ | rwhitby: me too. commercially, even. |
| 06:18.33 | juri_ | tho, the atheros driver on my routerboards needs to be replaced with the open atheros driver. i'm still working on that. |
| 06:18.45 | juri_ | is battling closed source software on so many lines.. |
| 06:19.04 | rwhitby | juri_: what's the open bios you run on the servers? |
| 06:19.21 | juri_ | rwhitby: linuxbios, which has now changed names. |
| 06:19.55 | juri_ | actually, my main server for my municipal wireless net isn't linuxbios compatible, but i'm due to replace it with one that is... |
| 06:20.05 | *** join/#openmoko yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-170-61.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 06:20.22 | Dave | hippie :P |
| 06:20.29 | mmontour | juri_: now you have to start looking for some open-source hard drives. |
| 06:20.50 | juri_ | mmotour: one battle at a time. i'm comfortable fighting the stuff thats already on my plate. |
| 06:21.00 | juri_ | you can only work full time, after all. |
| 06:21.13 | Dave | nu uh |
| 06:21.42 | juri_ | dave: i worked every hour i was awake last year, litearly. had four jobs at once, ALL opensource-only. THATS full time. |
| 06:21.58 | Dave | hahaha |
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| 06:22.53 | juri_ | this year, due to walmart policy changes, and a bank colapsing, the local free software job market is just gone. i'm going to have to move cross-country to find another opensource job. |
| 06:23.31 | juri_ | its just dead here, for all kinds of work, with hundreds(!!) of people fighting for every job. employers arent going to tolerate my "i do opensource, or i walk" policy. |
| 06:23.32 | rwhitby | mmontour: I forgot about the hard drives. Good point. |
| 06:23.36 | goodwill | rwhitby: have you ever compiled and fso image? |
| 06:23.52 | *** join/#openmoko affen (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 06:23.52 | Zoup | god damn i want my free runner! |
| 06:23.58 | rwhitby | goodwill: I added support for fso-image (both full and light) to MokoMakefile in the last week. |
| 06:24.08 | rwhitby | and both compile for gta02 at least. |
| 06:24.21 | Infinyte | MokoMakeFile |
| 06:24.22 | Infinyte | Hehehe |
| 06:24.27 | Infinyte | That's so cute. :D |
| 06:24.35 | Infinyte | In a geeky sorta way. >_> |
| 06:24.59 | mmontour | The hard-drive thing isn't just theoretical. There are real issues I want to fix (like disabling the head-parking on a WD drive, and forcing my laptop's Toshiba to re-map some bad sectors) |
| 06:25.44 | rwhitby | mmontour: none of it's theoretical (except perhaps the pacemaker) |
| 06:25.44 | Dave | haha, forcing it to give you head :p |
| 06:25.46 | Dave | whee |
| 06:26.18 | goodwill | rwhitby: your site is down it seems |
| 06:26.55 | juri_ | i'm more worried about my digicam. its completely closed. i need to get a samsung. aparently, some of their models run linux. |
| 06:27.07 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@62.8.133.125) |
| 06:28.09 | rwhitby | goodwill: yeah, backhoe through a cable |
| 06:28.20 | rwhitby | google should have it in cache |
| 06:28.42 | rwhitby | and the mokomakefile has alternate locations listed in the wiki page |
| 06:29.03 | goodwill | rwhitby: yeah, I found it...just thought I'd let you know |
| 06:29.24 | rwhitby | goodwill: thx - it's been down for over 12 hours now :-( |
| 06:29.35 | goodwill | rwhitby: sorry to hear that |
| 06:29.40 | goodwill | rwhitby: why? |
| 06:29.49 | *** join/#openmoko Karrde (i=sehaton@shodan.irccrew.org) |
| 06:29.53 | rwhitby | the site it's at is on the other side of the world |
| 06:30.23 | rwhitby | my mail is being handled by my secondary MX, so I'm not too concerned. my website isn't that important in the grand scheme of things :-) |
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| 06:35.57 | Infinyte | Hrm.. |
| 06:35.58 | Infinyte | ... |
| 06:36.24 | Infinyte | Eh, if I have a 1.5 MBit internet connection, shouldn't I be able to download at 1.5 MB's per second? |
| 06:36.34 | Infinyte | Cause I only get like 180kb/s. :< |
| 06:36.40 | juri_ | divide by 8. |
| 06:36.55 | Infinyte | Ah okay. |
| 06:37.05 | Infinyte | ...What's up with that anyways? |
| 06:37.17 | juri_ | megabits, not megabytes. |
| 06:37.22 | Infinyte | Ah. |
| 06:37.36 | affen | byte = 8 bits you know |
| 06:37.44 | rwhitby | plus overhead |
| 06:37.49 | Infinyte | Crazy, how do I get me one of those ISP's that let you download like 2MB per second? :\ My friend in Canada has one. |
| 06:38.00 | Infinyte | Must cost a fortune. >_> |
| 06:38.06 | rwhitby | get ADSL2+ annex M |
| 06:38.16 | rwhitby | 22MBit down, 2.5MBit up |
| 06:38.27 | Infinyte | Woahsnap. |
| 06:38.38 | Infinyte | Doubt there's any out here. :< |
| 06:38.44 | juri_ | thats why i admin the municipal wifi here: 20Mbit down, 20Mbit up. straight to my home. :) |
| 06:38.47 | Infinyte | *Lives in the middle of a corn field* |
| 06:39.06 | Infinyte | Ah well, Freerunner out yet? xP |
| 06:39.07 | mmontour | Infinyte: to reduce confusion, use "b" for bits and "B" for bytes (i.e. 1500 Mb/s = 187 MB/s) |
| 06:39.14 | rwhitby | Infinyte: in fact, it is. |
| 06:39.32 | rwhitby | for some people who pre-ordered through UK resellers ... |
| 06:39.45 | Infinyte | Ah right, not in the US though. :< |
| 06:40.02 | Infinyte | Thanks for the Mbits explination by the way guys. :D |
| 06:40.37 | rwhitby | yeah, well the GSM infrastructure isn't really up to it in the US anyway, and the consumers only know how to buy subsidised phones, so it's not surprising OM doesn't care about selling them there ;-) |
| 06:40.54 | Sonicadvance1 | D: |
| 06:41.34 | *** part/#openmoko jorgenpt (n=jorgenpt@tjer.no) |
| 06:43.16 | juri_ | rwhitby: i'd love to know why dallas ATNT makes openmokos behave like bricks. :) |
| 06:43.32 | juri_ | but, my gsm firmware isn't open. <re-insert standard rant here> :P |
| 06:43.50 | rwhitby | touche |
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| 06:44.32 | rwhitby | I'd love to know why my FreeRunner doesn't turn on, but I don't have the schematics ... |
| 06:45.13 | rwhitby | (of course, OM didn't promise the schematics, so I knew where the line was drawn before I decided to participate in the project and accept that) |
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| 06:46.41 | mmontour | rwhitby: have you looked at the kernel list lately? There's a long discussion thread about power issues. |
| 06:47.03 | goodwill | rwhitby: you probably know. there are stages in bitback build processes right? It seems rather inefficient to build everything from scratch....woudl be nice to have some things prebuilt...kinda like gentoo |
| 06:47.08 | Sup3rkiddo | hi all, whats cooking |
| 06:47.23 | rwhitby | mmontour: yeah, I'm expecting my gta02 is suffering the same problem, so I'm watching and waiting for their outcome |
| 06:48.09 | goodwill | Sup3rkiddo: hey...quick question for you...you built fso completely from scratch? |
| 06:48.10 | rwhitby | goodwill: I didn't write bitbake or OE ... I just put a convenient wrapper around it for those that wanted to build full images (as opposed to application developers who should use the pre-built toolchain instead) |
| 06:48.26 | goodwill | rwhitby: I know...I am just asking in hope you have an aswer |
| 06:48.32 | Sup3rkiddo | goodwill, na, i have been trying to |
| 06:48.57 | Sup3rkiddo | cd build && . ./setup-env && bitbake fso-image |
| 06:49.18 | goodwill | Sup3rkiddo: mokomakefile seems to do it |
| 06:49.20 | Sup3rkiddo | *ahem*, will be swell if the mokomakefile "*maintainers* add it :D |
| 06:49.23 | Sup3rkiddo | goodwill, it does? |
| 06:49.28 | Sup3rkiddo | bleh |
| 06:49.28 | Sup3rkiddo | ok |
| 06:49.39 | goodwill | Sup3rkiddo: so does rwhitby says |
| 06:49.39 | Infinyte | >_> |
| 06:49.42 | Sup3rkiddo | i didnt know that..been a while since i updated my makefile |
| 06:49.45 | Infinyte | <3 you guys. |
| 06:50.01 | mwester | up until some hours ago, one needed to be using the OE monotone repo to build the fso image. That may be changed with the merge earlier today, or it may still be that it only builds in the OE repo. |
| 06:50.09 | Sup3rkiddo | oh |
| 06:50.30 | Sup3rkiddo | i did see CIA getting hysterical yesterday |
| 06:50.35 | rwhitby | mwester: I'm building it from virgin mokomakefile settings for gta02 |
| 06:50.42 | rwhitby | cia was offline for a while |
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| 06:51.06 | rwhitby | Sup3rkiddo: mm has done fso-image for a while, I added -light too earlier today |
| 06:51.14 | mwester | Failed for me due to the python-gconf stuff being too old on OM. |
| 06:51.22 | Sup3rkiddo | i had to change --device flags manually in my copy, does it mean its really old? |
| 06:51.27 | Sup3rkiddo | rwhitby, ^^ |
| 06:51.45 | Sup3rkiddo | well, heck only one way to find out |
| 06:52.40 | rwhitby | Sup3rkiddo: ^^ is not my problem :-) talk to the OE guys. |
| 06:53.04 | Sup3rkiddo | rwhitby, oh, you are not maintaining it any more? |
| 06:53.07 | rwhitby | MokoMakefile's responsibility stops when bitbake has been called with the correct arguments and files. |
| 06:53.12 | Sup3rkiddo | ah |
| 06:53.14 | Sup3rkiddo | ok |
| 06:53.17 | Sup3rkiddo | that...hehe ok |
| 06:55.55 | rwhitby | Sup3rkiddo: that delineation is what makes it possible for me to even hope to spend enough time to support MokoMakefile ... |
| 06:56.41 | Sup3rkiddo | rwhitby, yeah, i can empathize ;) |
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| 06:58.54 | Sup3rkiddo | rwhitby, just one teency feature request, when i make setup-machine-freerunner, i guess the --device flag for dfu-util should change to 0x1d50:0x5119.. |
| 06:59.46 | rwhitby | Sup3rkiddo: good point - I didn't realise they were different. |
| 06:59.56 | rwhitby | I'll look into taht |
| 07:00.09 | Sup3rkiddo | thanks :D, |
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| 07:02.55 | juri_ | rwhitby: one feature request: Freeeeeedom! </bravehart> |
| 07:02.58 | juri_ | runs. :) |
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| 07:03.44 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r25 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added flash-fr-* equivalents for flash-neo-* |
| 07:03.54 | rwhitby | juri_: |
| 07:03.56 | rwhitby | # "MokoMakefile" - a Makefile for setting up Openmoko builds |
| 07:04.03 | rwhitby | # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or |
| 07:04.03 | rwhitby | # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License |
| 07:04.03 | rwhitby | # version 2 as published by the Free Software Foundation. |
| 07:04.13 | rwhitby | feature request granted ;-) |
| 07:04.14 | juri_ | version 2? bah. :P |
| 07:04.19 | juri_ | laughs. :) |
| 07:04.38 | juri_ | works hard on re-earning her zealot membership. :) |
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| 07:05.40 | juri_ | free enough. i'll go back to reading my non-free assembly book now. :) |
| 07:06.00 | Infinyte | Hey where's the OpenWRT guy? |
| 07:06.01 | Infinyte | >_> |
| 07:06.16 | rwhitby | Infinyte: perhaps in #openwrt ? |
| 07:06.24 | Infinyte | xD |
| 07:06.43 | Infinyte | >_> There's an #openwrt room? |
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| 07:09.10 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:09.33 | cozub | morgen :) |
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| 07:21.27 | goodwill | hmmm |
| 07:21.38 | goodwill | openembedded has something like packaged-staging |
| 07:24.24 | goodwill | I need to learn more about openembed |
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| 07:39.45 | ozzloy | arg! i would like to purchase a freerunner in USA. tantalizingly close! |
| 07:40.01 | ozzloy | T_T |
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| 07:49.44 | BlackFog | morning |
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| 07:59.20 | HauDyrArb | morning |
| 08:00.57 | Sonicadvance1 | I would also like to buy a freerunner in the USA |
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| 08:17.16 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r5ccc621d92b2 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/callhistory.cpp: [x11] Small oversight and mark the window properly |
| 08:17.17 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r2d902ac4dc2c 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/callhistory.cpp: [callhistory] Updating it once should be enough |
| 08:17.17 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r389272760c11 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/ (callhistory.cpp callhistory.h): [callhistory] Update the widget directly instead of the event filter hooks |
| 08:17.18 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r1774ed5b333d 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/ (callhistory.cpp callhistory.h): [callhistory] Elide the number label as well |
| 08:17.21 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r082e8f101b13 10/src/libraries/qtopia/themedview.cpp: [theme] Disable printing performance numbers |
| 08:17.24 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r70e8c35087f6 10/src/libraries/qtopia/themedview.cpp: [theme] If we layout in the paintEvent then ignore the clipping |
| 08:18.29 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r5ccc621d92b2 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/callhistory.cpp: [x11] Small oversight and mark the window properly |
| 08:18.30 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r2d902ac4dc2c 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/callhistory.cpp: [callhistory] Updating it once should be enough |
| 08:18.30 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r389272760c11 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/ (callhistory.cpp callhistory.h): [callhistory] Update the widget directly instead of the event filter hooks |
| 08:18.31 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r1774ed5b333d 10/src/server/phone/callhistory/default/ (callhistory.cpp callhistory.h): [callhistory] Elide the number label as well |
| 08:18.36 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r082e8f101b13 10/src/libraries/qtopia/themedview.cpp: [theme] Disable printing performance numbers |
| 08:18.39 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke * r70e8c35087f6 10/src/libraries/qtopia/themedview.cpp: [theme] If we layout in the paintEvent then ignore the clipping |
| 08:20.24 | Sonicadvance1 | damn |
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| 09:14.43 | pat^ | hi, has anybody managed to get the openmoko-devel-image or the openmoko-qtopia-x11-image to compile for the x86 arch? i get errors no matter what git branch i choose. if i choose the dev tree the build fails at the linux kernel, if i choose the aus.dev/stable it fails at ecore with an error about unkown symbols in glibc. |
| 09:16.44 | dragonheart | though i haven't got the dev kit yet posting the exact errors and the build output would help |
| 09:17.07 | Ainulindale | Yep, built it yesterday |
| 09:18.19 | pat^ | i will post the excat output, one moment please |
| 09:20.09 | pat^ | you can find the output here : http://www.pastebin.ca/1059786 |
| 09:20.46 | pat^ | this happens during make openmoko-devel-image |
| 09:21.09 | pat^ | i followed the wiki regarding the build process |
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| 09:27.11 | pat^ | can i somehow prevent the kernel from being build? because for emulation purposes i won't need it anyway |
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| 09:30.50 | d3vice | g'morning |
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| 09:35.06 | opendeep | When installing one library to toolchain , it's asking dependency package , so after installing dependent package I compiled it again but same error is coming |
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| 09:37.20 | Ghiottone|work | morning |
| 09:38.16 | ahven | more like afternoon over here :) |
| 09:39.15 | HauDyrArb | nearly noon here |
| 09:39.37 | Mek | in UGT (http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html) it is always morning when someone joins :P |
| 09:40.46 | HauDyrArb | aah, good to know |
| 09:41.27 | HauDyrArb | havent spent that much time on international channels :-) |
| 09:41.57 | ahven | good morning then :) |
| 09:43.23 | Pjj | anyone has a vid of the software that you now get when you buy a free runner |
| 09:43.41 | Ainulindale | lukhas: Waiting... to ... hard... can't... breathe :-p |
| 09:43.55 | Ainulindale | s/ to / too / |
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| 09:46.29 | BlackFog | Mek: thx :D |
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| 11:14.10 | kvk | when im building a sample gtk package on moko, im getting the error like " In function `_start': | init.c:(.text+0x30): undefined reference to `main' . |
| 11:15.30 | Sonicadvance1 | do you not have a main function kvk? |
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| 11:17.56 | kvk | Sonicadvance1, the code is at URL: http://rafb.net/p/SyHCy272.html |
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| 11:21.37 | AlecTBM | morning folks |
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| 11:24.27 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r28a197c5a775 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get the callscreen/theme improvements |
| 11:24.28 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r85ddb1fbd93c 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum of elfutils |
| 11:24.28 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r93924e8e1003 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add prelink checksum for the normal mirror |
| 11:24.29 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * re4df4234ac7b 10/packages/python/python-pyxdg_0.15.bb: [python] Add pyxdg to use fdo specs from python |
| 11:24.32 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r0dcb1a5a8940 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for pyxdg, matches the debian source |
| 11:25.37 | Sonicadvance1 | er, moment and I'll see if I can help :D |
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| 11:32.01 | kvk | sonicadvance1: the bb file is in URL: http://rafb.net/p/yVQyG119.html |
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| 11:36.50 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r964f767c178b 10/odeviced/ (6 files in 2 dirs): input plugin rewritten now |
| 11:36.51 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rb6cee9465300 10/odeviced/ (6 files in 2 dirs): |
| 11:36.51 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: Revert "input plugin rewritten now" |
| 11:36.51 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: This reverts commit 964f767c178ba0942f2de328381377b1e03e2c71. |
| 11:36.51 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r4d5b50ffcb31 10/odeviced/ (6 files in 2 dirs): |
| 11:36.55 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: Revert "Revert "input plugin rewritten now"" |
| 11:36.57 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: This reverts commit b6cee94653003dcfcdba17923c0e190ab9369d9a. |
| 11:40.15 | Sonicadvance1 | ah, dunno, I just followed the tutorial on the wiki and it compiled the sample app |
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| 11:42.21 | HauDyrArb | is CIA-46 a bot ? |
| 11:42.24 | zash | yes |
| 11:42.34 | TAsn | HauDyrArb, damn you are sharp ;0 |
| 11:42.46 | HauDyrArb | yeps |
| 11:42.57 | TAsn | :) |
| 11:43.29 | *** join/#openmoko cedric (n=cedric@mieuh.bluebugs.org) |
| 11:43.55 | HauDyrArb | and it shows each time something is committed in git or what |
| 11:45.54 | juri_ | keen powers of observation you've got there. ;) |
| 11:46.58 | raster | wow |
| 11:47.01 | raster | someone noticed |
| 11:47.04 | raster | amazing |
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| 11:47.28 | Ainulindale | =) |
| 11:47.33 | Sonicadvance1 | And here I was thinking he could just type 10000 words per minute |
| 11:47.50 | Ainulindale | Does anybodye have a solution to emulate bluetooth traffic to qemu ? |
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| 11:48.04 | Ainulindale | -e |
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| 12:21.26 | Ainulindale | Can't seem to find how to emulate bluetooth.. |
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| 12:39.17 | Ainulindale | Hmmm hcitool doesn't like to scan :-) |
| 12:39.34 | SpeedEvil | Ainulindale: I don't know qemu. |
| 12:39.57 | SpeedEvil | Ainulindale: can you tell linux/it to give it a USB port? |
| 12:40.04 | torpor | hey all |
| 12:40.14 | torpor | can anyone tell me where i can buy a freerunner in europe today? |
| 12:40.17 | torpor | <-- jay vaughan from the list. |
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| 12:42.43 | Tig| | http://openmoko.com/distributors-europe.html |
| 12:42.45 | Tig| | tada |
| 12:42.54 | torpor | yeah i guess handhelds-linux is the spot |
| 12:43.06 | torpor | too bad i missed the pulster order window, would've saved 70 euro's .. |
| 12:43.07 | Tig| | not sure who has them in stock right at this moment |
| 12:43.25 | Tig| | I got mine from truebox in the uk |
| 12:43.25 | torpor | anyway, thanks for the hint, i'll wait a week or two i suppose. |
| 12:43.48 | torpor | in the meantime i just put scaredy's new image on my gta01, and did 'opkg upgrade' only to be told i've run out of space on / .. wtf? |
| 12:44.22 | torpor | any way to work around this? |
| 12:44.50 | Tig| | no idea I am afraid |
| 12:45.16 | Tig| | but I seem to recall seeing some posts on one of the mailing lists about it |
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| 12:47.20 | torpor | is there some way to tell opkg to do an 'integrity' check and re-install any packages that failed? |
| 12:47.40 | torpor | because now i've freed up space, i want to complete the previous upgrade operation, but i can't be sure if some of the previous packages were properly installed or not .. |
| 12:47.56 | torpor | so the question is whether i can make opkg do an integrity check of installed packages and re-install any that failed.. |
| 12:48.58 | Tig| | I don't know enough about opkg to help :( I would hope though that it would only mark them as installed if they actually completely installed |
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| 12:49.17 | torpor | ok i'm going to just hack around .. thanks anyway |
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| 12:49.38 | torpor | hopefully i'll have a fully upgraded machine shortly. i think by deleting /home/root/gllin, i got enough free space to complete the upgrade step. |
| 12:49.52 | torpor | looks like the scaredy image installed the gllin package for me automatically, and that caused the upgrade problem. |
| 12:50.23 | Ainulindale | torpor: you can buy one from bearstech (France) |
| 12:50.35 | torpor | Ainulindale: ok. any idea how much? |
| 12:50.46 | Ainulindale | in France, 328 euros |
| 12:50.56 | Ainulindale | there's an international shipping fee though |
| 12:50.57 | torpor | ok |
| 12:51.01 | Ainulindale | bearstech.com/shop |
| 12:51.05 | torpor | yeah that could be too much for me. |
| 12:51.09 | Ainulindale | But you've got the pouch, headset, stylus.. |
| 12:51.15 | torpor | i'm going to try to organize a 10-pack order in the meantime though .. |
| 12:51.29 | Ainulindale | I stopped waiting for that last week |
| 12:51.35 | Ainulindale | Nobody was active |
| 12:51.50 | Ainulindale | And besides lukhas from bearstech perverted me |
| 12:53.03 | Ainulindale | Does anybody happen to know if the python import contact script should work on OM/FSO/ASU ? |
| 12:53.10 | torpor | wish ScaredyCat was around .. |
| 12:53.13 | torpor | !seen ScaredyCat |
| 12:53.14 | cdbot2 | torpor, ScaredyCat is right here! |
| 12:53.41 | CVirus | Where can I buy the FreeRunner from there http://bearstech.com/english |
| 12:54.03 | Ainulindale | http://bearstech.com/shop CVirus |
| 12:54.18 | CVirus | oh thanks |
| 12:54.21 | Ainulindale | I don't think there's a translation |
| 12:54.28 | Ainulindale | But as I'm french I can help you with that if necessary |
| 12:55.25 | CVirus | thanks .. google translate :-) |
| 12:55.35 | Ainulindale | Aouch |
| 12:55.42 | Ainulindale | I see that you like to get spanked |
| 12:55.57 | CVirus | hehe |
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| 13:00.16 | HauDyrArb | CVirus, i ordered mine from handhelds-linux |
| 13:00.35 | CVirus | you got it yet ? |
| 13:00.42 | HauDyrArb | nope |
| 13:01.08 | Ainulindale | Failed to open connection to session message bus: dbus-launch failed to autolaunch D-Bus session: Autolaunch requested, but X11 support not compiled in. |
| 13:01.11 | Ainulindale | Hmpf. |
| 13:01.17 | HauDyrArb | maby in two weeks |
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| 13:03.55 | HauDyrArb | Wizzard, g'day mate |
| 13:04.08 | Ainulindale | Is it normal to have this kind of error ? |
| 13:06.56 | N-Mi | is wondering why he hasn't received any confirmation for his order on pulster.de |
| 13:07.48 | torpor | coz they don't have any |
| 13:07.54 | torpor | i also have the same problem. |
| 13:08.59 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-75-28-153.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:09.10 | N-Mi | torpor: have you ordered your FR right after pulster's announce on community mailing-list ? |
| 13:09.30 | *** join/#openmoko jitu3485 (n=jitender@61.16.248.242) |
| 13:09.36 | CVirus | HauDyrArb: how did you buy from handhelds-linux ? |
| 13:10.16 | Ainulindale | Now I have a nice looking "Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.openmoko.Dialer was not provided by any .service files |
| 13:10.27 | Ainulindale | I'm lucky :-/ |
| 13:11.13 | HauDyrArb | CVirus, http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo%20Freerunner&referer=[Shop] |
| 13:11.18 | jitu3485 | Hi , I am trying to build moko on my ubuntu 8.04 hardy;it is giving error /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr is not 0. I don't want to mess up with sys file,what should i do? |
| 13:11.33 | CVirus | HauDyrArb: thanks |
| 13:11.46 | jitu3485 | can somebody help? |
| 13:13.21 | *** join/#openmoko Tanuva (n=tanuva@d138040.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 13:13.26 | HauDyrArb | CVirus, i choose handheld because they take Visacard (safer) |
| 13:15.59 | CVirus | no one else accepts credit cards ? |
| 13:16.22 | CVirus | We don't have paypal in Egypt |
| 13:16.43 | CVirus | 349 euros or esterling ? |
| 13:16.59 | HauDyrArb | nope pultser is bank transfer |
| 13:17.08 | CVirus | damn |
| 13:17.08 | *** part/#openmoko russellb (n=russell@asterisk/developer-and-stable-maintainer/drumkilla) |
| 13:17.34 | cozub | intl. bank transfers suck |
| 13:17.42 | cozub | at least here (CZ) they do |
| 13:17.48 | HauDyrArb | else there is openmoko.com shop i think it taks credit card |
| 13:17.56 | SpeedEvil | HauDyrArb: not open |
| 13:18.12 | HauDyrArb | but when it opens :-) |
| 13:18.33 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrodf (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26) |
| 13:19.11 | *** part/#openmoko telmich (i=telmich@gpm/telmich) |
| 13:19.38 | Ainulindale | Please, someone able to explain to me why dbus-send is unable to find the openmoko services ? |
| 13:21.48 | *** join/#openmoko pjj_ (n=pjj@107-143-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 13:23.53 | Bumbl | cozub: intl. bank transfers might suck but europeanwide transfers don't |
| 13:24.39 | cozub | well, here even eu-wide, although those suck a bit less than out-of-eu |
| 13:24.45 | *** join/#openmoko slchen (n=slchen@61-64-101-232-adsl-tpe.dynamic.so-net.net.tw) |
| 13:25.02 | linuxisbest | When I build my application , package dependency errors are coming , so I cross compiled that packages and installed but it's not taking those and giving same depend errors |
| 13:25.13 | linuxisbest | Any one help me |
| 13:26.18 | torpor | N-Mi: yes i did do that order then but its too late. |
| 13:27.02 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=broedje@92.116.128.176) |
| 13:27.07 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:27.40 | *** part/#openmoko ohin (n=opera@zli1-v-1-166.static.adsl.vol.cz) |
| 13:31.25 | N-Mi | torpor: I've place my order 30 minutes after pulster's anounce on the mailing list, it's hard to believe I was too late |
| 13:31.47 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r580ea782bc67 10/odeviced/src/plugins/input/ (input.c input.h): remove input.c and input.h |
| 13:31.53 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-darl2-0-0-cust537.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 13:34.07 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r7377b7a02676 10/src/zhone: zhone: Use the new GetStatus API |
| 13:35.45 | *** join/#openmoko tobii_ (i=tobii_@e177099252.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:36.57 | Dave | moko moko moko |
| 13:37.32 | Ainulindale | Dave: Moko ? |
| 13:37.34 | Ainulindale | Moko ! |
| 13:37.38 | Ainulindale | (Ook ?) |
| 13:37.41 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * rd1e648dcf282 10/framework/subsystems/oeventd/receiver.py: oeventd: convert the ledAction to a VibratorReceiver |
| 13:37.41 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r090e4422b35f 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/kernel26.py: odeviced: also change PowerSupplyApm to export GetEnergyPercentage instead of GetChargingPercentage |
| 13:38.16 | Ainulindale | Can't understand why I'm not able to use dbus-send, grmpf ! |
| 13:38.25 | *** join/#openmoko larry_jr (n=Larry@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:38.32 | *** join/#openmoko maroi (n=mario@213.33.89.38) |
| 13:38.48 | Dave | ook jij? |
| 13:39.00 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@218-166-208-244.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 13:39.05 | *** part/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@218-166-208-244.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 13:39.16 | Ainulindale | Dave: What ? |
| 13:40.07 | *** join/#openmoko methril (n=Methril@213.27.233.98) |
| 13:40.23 | Dave | Sorry, I thought we were speaking Dutch for the moment :p |
| 13:40.30 | methril | hi |
| 13:40.52 | Ainulindale | Nope, I was quoting Pratchett's librarian |
| 13:41.40 | AVee | Pratchett's librarian probably speaks Dutch fluently. (Toch?) |
| 13:42.46 | Dave | ik zie... ~_~ |
| 13:43.23 | AVee | :D |
| 13:43.23 | torpor | one question about the gps .. i'm running scaredy's image, and trying out tangogps .. does it take some time to find a gPs position, or whats the deal? |
| 13:43.23 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 13:43.25 | Dave | Yes, it does. |
| 13:43.28 | SpeedEvil | You have 01 or 02? |
| 13:43.30 | torpor | coz gllin is installed and all that, but cat /tmp/nmeaNP does not seem to return any text |
| 13:43.34 | torpor | gta01 |
| 13:43.36 | Dave | It can take a minute or so to find satellites. |
| 13:43.47 | SpeedEvil | torpor: Ok - your GPS is not on or something is misconfigured. |
| 13:43.49 | Ainulindale | All hail galileo ! |
| 13:43.51 | Dave | torpor is the GPS device running? |
| 13:43.58 | torpor | how do i tell? |
| 13:44.00 | Dave | Hello Speedy :) |
| 13:44.06 | SpeedEvil | torpor: Look round the tangogps device for a tangogps script. |
| 13:44.12 | SpeedEvil | torpor: to start gllin and gpsd |
| 13:44.22 | Dave | Also make sure GPS is powered on :P |
| 13:44.25 | SpeedEvil | torpor: then you just go to 'config' and hit 'start gpsd and gllin' |
| 13:44.32 | torpor | well, i pressed the 'start gpsd and gllin' button. |
| 13:44.40 | torpor | and gpsd -n /tmp/nmeaNP shows up in ps ax .. |
| 13:44.42 | SpeedEvil | torpor: that won't work unless you've installed the script |
| 13:44.44 | torpor | but .. gpsd ? |
| 13:45.03 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 13:45.10 | torpor | okay well its running on the device. |
| 13:45.14 | torpor | but still returning nothing. |
| 13:45.22 | Dave | go outside? |
| 13:45.26 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 13:45.27 | torpor | there is some way to start up the gps device? |
| 13:45.39 | Dave | yes |
| 13:45.39 | torpor | i'm outside! :) my other gps is working. (becker) |
| 13:45.39 | SpeedEvil | torpor: wander outside for a few minutes. |
| 13:45.41 | Dave | :D |
| 13:45.44 | SpeedEvil | torpor: ah |
| 13:45.55 | torpor | do i have to do some /proc magic to turn on gps? |
| 13:45.56 | Dave | torpor go to the "power menu" |
| 13:45.59 | torpor | ok |
| 13:45.59 | Dave | no no |
| 13:46.01 | SpeedEvil | torpor: yes |
| 13:46.03 | Dave | it's rather quite easy ;) |
| 13:46.08 | Dave | hold the power button :p |
| 13:46.16 | Dave | Select Turn on GPS |
| 13:46.16 | SpeedEvil | torpor: there is a nice 'on' script on the tangogps site. |
| 13:46.17 | torpor | it says 'turn off gps' |
| 13:46.21 | torpor | that would mean there's a gps on |
| 13:46.26 | Dave | right :P |
| 13:46.48 | torpor | well i'll keep trying |
| 13:46.54 | SpeedEvil | torpor: strace gpsd |
| 13:47.06 | SpeedEvil | torpor: see if it's reading anything from gllin |
| 13:47.30 | SpeedEvil | It should be reading stuff like $WHATEVER,3m3,3,3,3,,2,43,36,..9$ |
| 13:47.44 | torpor | oh shit |
| 13:47.48 | torpor | i think i know what the problem is. |
| 13:47.55 | torpor | my microsd card is formatted VFAT. |
| 13:48.00 | torpor | this mans the links are borked. |
| 13:48.04 | Dave | o.O |
| 13:48.07 | torpor | +e |
| 13:48.18 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD9539521.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:48.39 | torpor | can someone send me the contents of /media/card/root/gllin/lib so i can see the links and hack them up myself? |
| 13:49.07 | SpeedEvil | I would, but I forgot to put myu phone back on charge. |
| 13:49.12 | SpeedEvil | Ask me again in a few hours. |
| 13:49.27 | torpor | gah |
| 13:49.28 | torpor | ;) |
| 13:49.32 | Dave | heh |
| 13:49.39 | Dave | I don't use Gllin, so I can't help :p |
| 13:50.06 | *** join/#openmoko kuzgun (n=deniz@unaffiliated/kuzgun) |
| 13:51.12 | *** join/#openmoko VDVsx (n=VDVsx@bl10-78-241.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 13:52.18 | torpor | never mind i'll just format the card and start again .. ;) |
| 13:52.39 | Dave | aww |
| 13:54.59 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@82.145.216.3) |
| 13:56.12 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@88.200.89.221) |
| 13:56.52 | *** join/#openmoko nevor (n=nevor@home1.nevor.net) |
| 13:57.28 | *** join/#openmoko pvborza (n=paul@79.119.152.177) |
| 13:57.53 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 13:57.56 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-59-44.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 13:59.55 | *** join/#openmoko Wizzard (n=wizzard@159.148.31.137) |
| 14:05.00 | Dave | Crap, one of my devices will not POWER ON. :| |
| 14:05.51 | HauDyrArb | is it beacuse of the battery? |
| 14:06.01 | Dave | Unsure, it is possible :] |
| 14:06.16 | Dave | The worst part so far is you never know when the device is charging. |
| 14:08.34 | torpor | anyone know how i can umount /media/card? it seems to be 'busy', though i can't find whats got a file open on it .. |
| 14:08.50 | HauDyrArb | dave, maby http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery_Charger can help |
| 14:09.13 | Dave | eh? |
| 14:09.36 | Dave | Fortunately for myself, I care not, since I can easily swap it out with another device :p |
| 14:09.42 | Dave | Though it's worth investigating further :P |
| 14:09.49 | Dave | At a later time. |
| 14:12.09 | *** join/#openmoko Bish (n=gentoo@p4FC4FDD2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:12.14 | Bish | :( |
| 14:12.14 | Dave | haha fast charging... |
| 14:12.16 | *** join/#openmoko Hoolxi (n=kingston@58.33.108.242) |
| 14:12.16 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 14:12.33 | Bish | still dont own his freerunner.. even with preorder :( |
| 14:12.40 | Bish | s/dont/doesnt |
| 14:12.42 | torpor | ok |
| 14:12.48 | torpor | nobody knows how to umount /media/card? |
| 14:13.02 | ahven | umount /media/card |
| 14:13.02 | ahven | :P |
| 14:13.13 | ahven | if it fails, try lsof /media/card |
| 14:13.21 | ahven | to see what is still hanging on to it |
| 14:13.27 | Tanuva | Bish: me too, lets suffer together... :/ |
| 14:13.34 | Bish | suffers |
| 14:13.36 | torpor | lsof doesn't exist |
| 14:13.48 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=broedje@92.116.35.121) |
| 14:13.52 | Bish | Tanuva: i preodered in 27.05 !!! |
| 14:14.21 | Tanuva | Bish: I did it exactly one month later |
| 14:14.29 | Bish | damnit |
| 14:14.49 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=GoD@82.201.222.212) |
| 14:14.51 | Tanuva | and dont get it on 7.5. either :/ |
| 14:14.59 | Tanuva | ah, 5.6. |
| 14:15.01 | Tanuva | 5.7. |
| 14:15.10 | Tanuva | cant type anymore ;) |
| 14:15.13 | zash | 3.14! |
| 14:15.43 | Bish | zash: u ordered yours 14th march? |
| 14:16.16 | zash | no |
| 14:16.28 | ahven | I'm quite happy with my Neo1973 currently, don't have much time to tinkering anyway |
| 14:16.36 | zash | Bish: PI |
| 14:16.55 | zash | haven't orderd yet |
| 14:17.52 | ahven | I'm thinking on waiting for a better device, 03 perhaps? |
| 14:18.05 | SpeedEvil | 03 is better in very limited ways. |
| 14:18.17 | SpeedEvil | It will have no 2D/3D accelerator. |
| 14:18.28 | ahven | if it has atleast EDGE, I'm interested in some way |
| 14:18.41 | SpeedEvil | But that's not as good as it was thought - and this may be a wash - given the low performance and faster CPU |
| 14:18.47 | SpeedEvil | It has the same GSM |
| 14:18.54 | ahven | *sigh* |
| 14:18.59 | Dave | meh |
| 14:19.08 | Bish | :D |
| 14:19.09 | Dave | It may have some crappy camera? heh. |
| 14:19.14 | Bish | :DD |
| 14:19.29 | Dave | I'll stick with my USB camera for now, thanks. |
| 14:19.30 | SpeedEvil | GTA03 drops the 2d/3d accelerator, which has turned out not to be very great - and adds a camera. Also the case changes in unrevealed ways. |
| 14:19.46 | Dave | To accommodate this shitty addition. |
| 14:19.49 | Bish | SpeedEvil: .. will it have opengl? |
| 14:19.50 | Dave | No doubt :D |
| 14:19.51 | SpeedEvil | Cameras - even crappy ones are very useful. |
| 14:19.56 | Dave | yeah yeah |
| 14:20.02 | Dave | Wonderful. |
| 14:20.04 | Bish | SpeedEvil: cameras are useful for what? |
| 14:20.09 | ahven | seems that I should look at other directions for a new mobile device in the future |
| 14:20.13 | Dave | Mug shots, reportedly. |
| 14:20.37 | SpeedEvil | Bish:http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Camera |
| 14:20.37 | Dave | Otherwise, nothing, if the lens is shit. |
| 14:20.54 | Dave | Wishlist: DRIVERS. |
| 14:21.06 | Bish | SpeedEvil: will it have opengles .. the gta03? |
| 14:21.09 | SpeedEvil | Barcodes, taking pictures of stuff to ask people about. |
| 14:21.18 | SpeedEvil | Bish: it's simply a framebuffer, a dumb one. |
| 14:21.33 | SpeedEvil | Bish: you can put whatever software you want on it |
| 14:21.51 | Bish | SpeedEvil: a framebuffer? oO |
| 14:21.59 | Bish | even on gta04? |
| 14:22.00 | Dave | Yes |
| 14:22.03 | Dave | haha |
| 14:22.12 | Dave | gta05? |
| 14:22.12 | Bish | i thought there was something like a driver for X xD |
| 14:22.22 | Bish | gta03 :P |
| 14:22.30 | Dave | I hear the GTA06 will have a flux capacitor. |
| 14:22.38 | Bish | Dave: stop kidding me :P |
| 14:22.39 | Dave | :P |
| 14:22.47 | Dave | Hey, you started it! |
| 14:22.48 | SpeedEvil | GTA04 is not fixed hardware yet. However, it is scheduled to have a SoC which supports natively 2D accelleration, whihc will remove all of the acceleration problems. |
| 14:23.05 | Tanuva | SoC? |
| 14:23.09 | SpeedEvil | Bish: you know what a framebuffer is? |
| 14:23.21 | SpeedEvil | GTA04 is not fixed hardware yet. However, it is scheduled to have a SoC(CPU) which supports natively 2D accelleration, whihc will remove all of the acceleration problems. |
| 14:23.53 | Bish | SpeedEvil: yeah i think i know, u just put pix0rz into the memory of the chip and it displays it |
| 14:24.02 | SpeedEvil | Bish: yeah - dumb. |
| 14:24.23 | Bish | so the freerunner has a framebuffer Oo? no .. gfx driver? |
| 14:24.24 | Dave | :p |
| 14:24.31 | SpeedEvil | Bish: no - that's 03 |
| 14:24.32 | Bish | freebufer :P |
| 14:24.39 | Bish | what does 02 have? |
| 14:24.45 | SpeedEvil | Bish: freerunner has the Glamo accel chip |
| 14:24.51 | Dave | Yes |
| 14:24.57 | SpeedEvil | Bish: which has turned out not to be very accelerating. |
| 14:25.04 | Dave | Haha, correct! |
| 14:25.18 | SpeedEvil | Bish: as it's basically connected over a 16 bit ISA bus. |
| 14:25.18 | Dave | but comes with some neat bloat games :P |
| 14:25.27 | Bish | SpeedEvil: ou shit :D |
| 14:25.33 | Bish | frequency? |
| 14:25.55 | Bish | crappy 02 :D but i still want to have it |
| 14:26.04 | Dave | Yes Yes! |
| 14:26.07 | SpeedEvil | Bish: 7 megabytes/second. And if you use all of that, you get 0% CPU left. If you use 3.5M/s, you get 50% CPU legt |
| 14:26.16 | SpeedEvil | Bish: that also counts for SD. |
| 14:26.18 | Dave | Yep! |
| 14:26.20 | Bish | oh god :D |
| 14:26.23 | SpeedEvil | As SD shares the bus. |
| 14:26.23 | Bish | would u buy a freerunner? |
| 14:26.32 | Dave | haha |
| 14:26.38 | SpeedEvil | Bish: I cannot at the moment, due to cashflow problems. |
| 14:26.48 | Bish | but u would? |
| 14:26.49 | *** join/#openmoko tubastian (n=tubastia@pD9547766.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:26.55 | SpeedEvil | Bish: I'm at the top of a really high mountain, and it's flowing away. |
| 14:27.02 | SpeedEvil | wants wifi. |
| 14:27.25 | Bish | wonders if there is a wlan AP on the top of the high mountain Oo |
| 14:27.34 | Dave | heehee |
| 14:27.36 | Tanuva | buys the freerunner because of gps+wifi+"itsa linux phone!" |
| 14:27.44 | Dave | hah! |
| 14:27.46 | Dave | Yay |
| 14:27.56 | Bish | hm.. and i wont play videos with freerunner? |
| 14:27.59 | Tanuva | I wont use it as a phone very much.. |
| 14:28.06 | Dave | contemplates DOOM running on the freerunner. |
| 14:28.19 | Bish | wants to play moon-buggy on it |
| 14:28.22 | Bish | yeah moon-buggy |
| 14:28.26 | SpeedEvil | DOOM will actually work. |
| 14:28.32 | Dave | :D |
| 14:28.40 | SpeedEvil | Bish: you can play video. |
| 14:28.49 | Dave | Tell me more! |
| 14:28.56 | torpor | ok |
| 14:29.06 | Bish | Dave: :D do u own a freerunner? |
| 14:29.10 | torpor | yay! |
| 14:29.11 | Dave | Several |
| 14:29.23 | torpor | now i've got an ext2 filesystem on /media/card and it looks like gllin is installed properly. |
| 14:29.26 | torpor | but still no gPS lock. |
| 14:29.30 | Dave | hmm |
| 14:29.37 | torpor | i should be seeing things if i cat /tmp/nmeaNP right? |
| 14:29.41 | Dave | is it finding any satellites, or communicating with them? |
| 14:29.54 | Dave | Yes, even if they are empty strings of crap data. |
| 14:30.00 | SpeedEvil | torpor: yes |
| 14:30.01 | Dave | because it cannot find a fix/position. |
| 14:30.06 | jOERG_rw | uploading partition rootfs... no progress bar on dfu_util. Had 2 cups of coffee meanwhile :-/ |
| 14:30.16 | SpeedEvil | what happens if you strace the gllin process? |
| 14:30.17 | torpor | ok |
| 14:30.20 | Dave | joerg, heh yup, should take 13minutes or so |
| 14:30.29 | Dave | depends on the system, usb a little too I believe |
| 14:30.38 | *** join/#openmoko yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-170-61.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 14:30.43 | jOERG_rw | is going to have an afternoon nap |
| 14:30.50 | torpor | SpeedEvil: if do strace /home/root/gllin/gllin? |
| 14:30.51 | Dave | :] |
| 14:31.01 | HauDyrArb | i just got an idea for GTA04 include a FPGA |
| 14:31.11 | Dave | Man, I'm so glad I don't have to deal with Gllin anymore :P |
| 14:31.22 | torpor | dave: :P fptt. |
| 14:31.24 | Dave | Haudyrarb, hah! |
| 14:31.31 | Dave | torpor :P |
| 14:31.40 | ahven | gllin works like a charm :) |
| 14:31.47 | Dave | meh |
| 14:31.57 | jOERG_rw | FPGA eats power :-( |
| 14:32.01 | Dave | no kidding :P |
| 14:32.07 | Bish | SpeedEvil: .. will 03 be able to show videos? |
| 14:32.08 | Dave | Om NOM NOM NOM |
| 14:32.10 | mjr | HauDyrArb, yes, and that V8 |
| 14:32.13 | torpor | w00t! |
| 14:32.15 | Dave | it can presently do so |
| 14:32.17 | torpor | this means something right? |
| 14:32.17 | torpor | root@om-gta01:/media/card/root/gllin# cat /tmp/nmeaNP |
| 14:32.17 | torpor | $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,,,,,120180,,,N*78 |
| 14:32.17 | torpor | $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,11.2,5.0,10.0*36 |
| 14:32.18 | Dave | torpor? :D |
| 14:32.20 | Dave | Yep! |
| 14:32.23 | Dave | There you go :P |
| 14:32.29 | Bish | :DD |
| 14:32.35 | Dave | Walk around a bit |
| 14:32.48 | Dave | See how many satellites you see/use |
| 14:32.49 | torpor | tangogps doesn't seem very smart. |
| 14:32.59 | mjr | Bish, http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/ |
| 14:33.12 | torpor | satellites: 0/0 |
| 14:33.14 | torpor | :( |
| 14:33.47 | torpor | but there are all sorts of strings being spewed into /tmp/nmeaNP .. |
| 14:33.52 | torpor | so tangogps isn't reading them? |
| 14:34.00 | jOERG_rw | stops nap to throw in anothe dfu-cmdline for DOWNload, then goes back zzZZzz |
| 14:34.07 | *** join/#openmoko XVirus (n=GoD@62.135.96.231) |
| 14:34.21 | Bish | yeah mtv mjr |
| 14:34.44 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * ra7acd6517e46 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [assassin] Bump up the reversion of assassin to 174. |
| 14:34.44 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rf6357204c59a 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [splinter] Bump up the reversion of splinter to 438 |
| 14:35.22 | torpor | is there somewhere i can paste these lines from nmeaNP and see them parsed on a map? |
| 14:37.57 | Dave | :P |
| 14:38.12 | Dave | torpor, yeah that's just empty data most likely 99 99 99 |
| 14:38.18 | Dave | because it cannot get a fix :x |
| 14:38.26 | Dave | try walking around outside a bit |
| 14:38.41 | Dave | sometimes with mine I think it's fucked up, I just hit reconnect to gpsd and walk around for a while |
| 14:38.41 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (n=andrenar@dslb-084-057-079-120.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:38.41 | torpor | is this empty data? |
| 14:38.42 | torpor | $GPGGA,235946.99,,,,,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 |
| 14:38.49 | torpor | $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,,,,,120180,,,N*78 |
| 14:38.50 | Dave | and after about five minutes it sometimes gets pos |
| 14:38.53 | torpor | doesn't look like it to me .. |
| 14:39.07 | Dave | I get like 13/12 SAT on my sidewalk |
| 14:39.12 | Dave | heh |
| 14:39.47 | Bish | but i will be happy with preencodering videos? |
| 14:39.57 | Dave | Sure :D |
| 14:40.01 | Dave | That's what I do |
| 14:40.19 | Bish | ah i c :) cool |
| 14:40.26 | Bish | with the glamolib? |
| 14:40.41 | SpeedEvil | torpor: yes |
| 14:40.50 | SpeedEvil | torpor: $GPGGA,235946.99,,,,,00,00,5.0,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0020199,*57 |
| 14:41.02 | SpeedEvil | torpor: Teh ,,, is where the position goes. |
| 14:41.11 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 14:41.15 | Dave | right :P |
| 14:41.28 | torpor | am i right in thinking the media player is currently broken? |
| 14:41.33 | SpeedEvil | $GPGGA,065851.00,5613.022358,N,00306.725817,W,1,05,1.0,158.0,M,0.277000,M,-0.010 |
| 14:41.33 | SpeedEvil | 0515,*7C |
| 14:41.38 | torpor | SpeedEvil: thanks, so it is working. just not tangops. |
| 14:41.42 | SpeedEvil | torpor: no |
| 14:41.43 | torpor | oh. i see. |
| 14:41.47 | SpeedEvil | torpor: that's not a valid position |
| 14:41.55 | *** join/#openmoko Kattyo (n=K114@jabber.hsdnetwork.net) |
| 14:42.01 | SpeedEvil | torpor: that means that gllin is working, but cannot get a position. |
| 14:42.09 | SpeedEvil | torpor: have you taken it outside for a bit to get lock? |
| 14:42.17 | torpor | i am outside!! :) |
| 14:42.20 | SpeedEvil | torpor: ah |
| 14:42.23 | torpor | my other GPS sees satellites. |
| 14:42.35 | SpeedEvil | torpor: there have been reports of units with broken GPS |
| 14:42.45 | SpeedEvil | torpor: try killing and restarting gllin |
| 14:44.02 | torpor | ok |
| 14:44.12 | torpor | not too good i'm afraid |
| 14:44.12 | torpor | man |
| 14:44.20 | torpor | this is making me re-think if i want a freerunner or not. |
| 14:44.24 | Dave | oh yeah and don't run tangogps for too long :P |
| 14:44.25 | torpor | the freerunner > gta01, right? |
| 14:44.40 | broonie | gta02 |
| 14:44.49 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Video_Player |
| 14:45.04 | torpor | all i'm saying is, does it make sense to get a freerunner in light of all the problems with neo1973? |
| 14:45.10 | SpeedEvil | Is an overview of my understanding of the current staqte of freerunner and neo1973 video performance |
| 14:45.18 | ahven | is the battery better with freerunner |
| 14:45.19 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@net70-17.metalit.net) |
| 14:45.20 | SpeedEvil | torpor: You decide. |
| 14:45.24 | ahven | or is it the software? |
| 14:45.26 | torpor | yeah .. |
| 14:45.29 | SpeedEvil | ahven: there is nothing wrong with the battery. |
| 14:45.36 | SpeedEvil | Battery life is a work in progress. The powersaving software is in a very rudimentary state. At the moment 12h is about the most. A week standby and 6 hours talk,20 hours mp3 is probable. |
| 14:45.46 | ahven | well, the power management then |
| 14:45.58 | Kattyo | Will it possible to by FreeRunner in Russia? |
| 14:46.09 | Bish | Kattyo: trisoft.de |
| 14:46.15 | torpor | oh man. |
| 14:46.17 | ahven | so no hardware fixes in gta02 regarding PM? |
| 14:46.24 | torpor | gah. |
| 14:46.29 | torpor | <-- disappointed. |
| 14:46.36 | XorA | ahbritto: a totally different power architecture |
| 14:47.23 | XorA | ahven: ^^^^ was for you |
| 14:47.32 | SpeedEvil | ahven: the problem is not hardware in either case. |
| 14:47.32 | ahven | yup |
| 14:47.46 | XorA | SpeedEvil: it is hardware in GTA01 case |
| 14:47.55 | SpeedEvil | XorA: ? |
| 14:48.11 | XorA | SpeedEvil: too much stuff wired directly to the battery, so there is no software control |
| 14:48.11 | SpeedEvil | XorA: are you talking about the serial overrun problems? |
| 14:48.25 | SpeedEvil | XorA: that's not a problem |
| 14:48.26 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=GoD@82.201.174.151) |
| 14:48.28 | XorA | SpeedEvil: erm, no power, sorry, crossed lines |
| 14:48.42 | SpeedEvil | XorA: with modem powered down, and it turned 'off' - it uses a few microamps only. |
| 14:49.08 | XorA | SpeedEvil: but on gta01 it cant enter deep sleep and still work in GSM mode, it can on gta02 |
| 14:49.35 | SpeedEvil | XorA: It can - sometimes - and AIUI mwester has a kernel that works. |
| 14:49.50 | XorA | SpeedEvil: GTA01 modem will never deep sleep AFAIK |
| 14:49.57 | XorA | SpeedEvil: I mean the actual modem itself |
| 14:50.30 | SpeedEvil | XorA: Due to software AIUI. However, that sets a ceiling on battery life of 40h with GSM on. |
| 14:50.41 | SpeedEvil | XorA: which is not at the moment even closely approached. |
| 14:50.45 | jOERG_rw | Dave: (upload) still running, got a 170MB-backup file now |
| 14:51.37 | Bish | :( |
| 14:51.56 | Ainulindale | Still nobody here to explain to me why I can't use dbus-send (unknown service) and whether it is possible to emulate bluetooth traffic or not ? |
| 14:52.30 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - no clue. |
| 14:54.06 | Ainulindale | For dbus-send, I exported DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS, DISPLAY and it simply won't work because of the "unknown service" org.openmoko.Dialer |
| 14:54.19 | Ainulindale | I surely did something wrong, but as I don't know dbus... :-) |
| 14:55.23 | *** join/#openmoko tigger_ (n=tigger@82.153.215.237) |
| 14:55.41 | *** join/#openmoko XVirus (n=GoD@82.201.174.23) |
| 14:56.11 | *** join/#openmoko hirolau (n=harald@79.138.188.99.bredband.tre.se) |
| 14:56.51 | *** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:57.49 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 14:59.08 | wurp2|away | XorA: Mickeyl told me that in the gta01, gsm firmware > 4 or 6 (he wasn't sure which) *did* deep sleep |
| 14:59.15 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@62.215.80.67) |
| 15:00.52 | *** part/#openmoko Kattyo (n=K114@jabber.hsdnetwork.net) |
| 15:01.00 | *** join/#openmoko Varox-DT (n=Varox@p4FD47E5F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:01.12 | *** join/#openmoko Kattyo (n=K114@jabber.hsdnetwork.net) |
| 15:02.12 | XorA | wurp2: but AFAIK we cant allow public to reflash :-( |
| 15:02.38 | SpeedEvil | XorA: is it as that exposes the firmware image? |
| 15:02.51 | XorA | SpeedEvil: Ive no idea of the legals |
| 15:02.52 | SpeedEvil | XorA: and would let users upload their own? |
| 15:02.54 | SpeedEvil | k |
| 15:03.18 | XorA | SpeedEvil: I suspect its GSM rules, we used to have similar stupidities about SIM designs |
| 15:03.50 | wurp2 | XorA: Yeah, mine has already been flashed to after that version |
| 15:04.12 | wurp2 | XorA: It used to be that Michael Shiloh would do it if you just shipped it to him, is that not still the case? |
| 15:04.27 | wurp2 | And was this discussion about FR? I would think they would already be > v. 6 |
| 15:04.31 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: no |
| 15:04.33 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: 01 |
| 15:04.42 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK (i=root@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 15:05.06 | XorA | wurp2: not a convenient arrangement for .eu people :-) |
| 15:05.18 | XorA | FR is v8 I think |
| 15:05.32 | wurp2 | XorA: heh, true... could you not get an OM employee in the EU set up to flash? |
| 15:05.42 | wurp2 | That's what my 01 is |
| 15:05.46 | wurp2 | (v8) |
| 15:05.53 | XorA | wurp2: cool |
| 15:06.04 | XorA | should really work out how to do the flash here |
| 15:06.39 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: I thought the issue with letting the end-user flash is that the DRM protecting the gsm from disapproved updates is in the flash process, and with the flash program you could put whatever you want in the firmware |
| 15:06.59 | wurp2 | I would have thought it would make more sense for the gsm to only accept signed images, though |
| 15:07.23 | wurp2 | and sign them at the factory, of course |
| 15:07.36 | XorA | on SIMs we had all sorts of stupid rules to obey about exposing COMP128 algorithm, even though CCC had published it on their website |
| 15:07.39 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: what's in practice, and what's reality... |
| 15:07.43 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK_ (i=root@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 15:07.56 | wurp2 | XorA: That's awesome |
| 15:08.00 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: I note the programming and hardware docs are out there. |
| 15:08.17 | *** join/#openmoko arndt__ (n=arndt@port-92-196-17-134.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 15:08.23 | wurp2 | Like when it was illegal to export encryption algorithms with too many bits in the key from the US |
| 15:08.36 | XorA | wurp2: unless it was on paper :-) |
| 15:08.55 | wurp2 | As if the texts describing exactly how to implement it (not to mention existing implementations from other countries) were already out there |
| 15:09.19 | Ainulindale | What's the problem for .eu people with the firmware ? |
| 15:09.22 | XorA | everyone knows Al Quade cant read :-) |
| 15:09.29 | SpeedEvil | Ainulindale: for everyone - with GTA01 |
| 15:09.30 | wurp2 | XorA: I was fuzzy on whether literal implementations were allowed even on paper |
| 15:09.36 | XorA | Ainulindale: a big chunk of water called the Atlantic |
| 15:09.39 | SpeedEvil | Ainulindale: it uses more power than it might |
| 15:09.48 | Ainulindale | XorA: Better don't let it fall in it then |
| 15:09.56 | Ainulindale | SpeedEvil: and no problem with the GTA02 ? |
| 15:10.01 | SpeedEvil | Ainulindale: no |
| 15:10.06 | Ainulindale | Good for me then. |
| 15:10.08 | SpeedEvil | Ainulindale: it's later fuirmware. |
| 15:10.14 | XorA | wurp2: published books it seems were a first amendment right in the USA |
| 15:10.16 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: The only way currently to get your firmware updated is ship it to Michael Shiloh |
| 15:10.20 | XorA | wurp2: computer code wasnt |
| 15:10.21 | *** join/#openmoko Varox-DT (n=Varox@p4FD47E5F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:10.32 | Ainulindale | wurp2: what a pain in the ass |
| 15:10.33 | wurp2 | XorA: silly legislature |
| 15:10.37 | Ainulindale | (not Michael, the process) |
| 15:10.42 | wurp2 | heh |
| 15:10.47 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@213-132-206-101.adsl.nlhosting.nl) |
| 15:10.52 | Ainulindale | So it's a legal problem ? |
| 15:11.00 | *** join/#openmoko blan (n=blan@dslb-088-065-239-098.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:11.02 | Ainulindale | Because it seems to me that with other phone it's kind of possible |
| 15:11.10 | Ainulindale | I mean I had a nokia which firmware I could flash |
| 15:11.10 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: I had to send mine to him early on - it wasn't compatible with any AT&T SIM I could lay my hands on |
| 15:11.28 | Ainulindale | (Or so it seems) |
| 15:11.37 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-67-180-89-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:12.07 | Ainulindale | But right now we're sure it works with a large number of telcos and SIM types, right ? |
| 15:13.09 | XorA | we will hear in a few days when FR bug reports start to flood in |
| 15:13.21 | Ainulindale | Eeeek |
| 15:13.27 | XorA | or not flood |
| 15:13.29 | Ainulindale | I hope so because if that's not the case I'm dooooomed |
| 15:13.30 | XorA | as may be the case |
| 15:13.35 | Ainulindale | Dooooooooooooomed </Bender> |
| 15:13.54 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: The FR shouldn't have the issues the gta01 did |
| 15:13.56 | XorA | apart from the recamping phones, they seem to be ok so far, and all the recampers were early prototypes |
| 15:13.56 | Ainulindale | My nokia is slowly dying |
| 15:14.03 | wurp2 | This was a gta01 thing |
| 15:14.11 | XorA | has one broken and one working FR |
| 15:14.16 | Ainulindale | It already has a safety procedure to eject the battery each time I happen to take it in my hands |
| 15:14.33 | wurp2 | that's awesome! |
| 15:14.37 | XorA | Ainulindale: protection against Sony batteries |
| 15:14.39 | Ainulindale | (I don't know how I broke the cover...) |
| 15:14.45 | Ainulindale | (But seriously it sucks) |
| 15:16.58 | Ainulindale | So as there's able people here (:->), anybody knows if bluetooth contact transfer has been implemented, and if not, if it would be difficult to implement ? |
| 15:17.14 | Ainulindale | Because I decided it would be a nice way for me to begin doing development |
| 15:17.36 | *** join/#openmoko tschaka (n=tschaka@p5B0EA451.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:17.50 | Ainulindale | And I don't want to re-enter manually all the contacts of my present phone |
| 15:17.56 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: It is not implemented |
| 15:18.06 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: Go learn bluez :-) |
| 15:18.15 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=broedje@92.116.241.120) |
| 15:18.31 | Ainulindale | wurp2: Don't need that, I already have the blUuuueEeeZzzz. |
| 15:18.38 | Ainulindale | scratches his guitar |
| 15:18.55 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: I'm not sure, though, there might be an existing higher-level implemented communication protocol that would be better |
| 15:19.05 | wurp2 | (one that runs over bt) |
| 15:19.06 | Ainulindale | I hope bearstech will receive their shipment soon enough |
| 15:19.13 | *** join/#openmoko XVirus (n=GoD@82.201.222.42) |
| 15:19.30 | Ainulindale | wurp2: someone (don't know who) developed a little script to import contacts from SIM |
| 15:19.36 | Ainulindale | I was planning to do the same kind of thing |
| 15:19.48 | Ainulindale | I.e. reading vCard over bt |
| 15:19.54 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: That was me |
| 15:19.59 | Ainulindale | wurp2: Nice work then :-p |
| 15:20.11 | wurp2 | Although a chinese guy did a better implementation, integrated into the gtk contact app |
| 15:20.30 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: Heh, thanks... it was simple stuff, and it doesn't handle i18n |
| 15:20.47 | Ainulindale | Heh ! Those chinese guys, always stealing your code in order to participate to the community, what the heck ! |
| 15:20.48 | wurp2 | Or rather, it wasn't built to handle i18n; it might handle some internationalized stuff by luck |
| 15:20.56 | Ainulindale | What an idea, participate :-p |
| 15:21.13 | Ainulindale | wurp2: you mean accents and so on ? |
| 15:21.15 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK (i=root@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 15:21.24 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: Yeah, non-ascii characters |
| 15:21.47 | Ainulindale | My friends are ASCII compatible. |
| 15:21.49 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@62.215.80.67) |
| 15:21.57 | Ainulindale | So I don't think it will be a problem |
| 15:23.11 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: Actually, if you can get the vcard sent over, you could use my code to insert it into the contact app... |
| 15:23.17 | *** join/#openmoko kuzgun (n=deniz@unaffiliated/kuzgun) |
| 15:23.19 | Ainulindale | But I was willing to try to use the dbus services manually, and didn't manage to :-/ |
| 15:23.24 | Ainulindale | wurp2: yep |
| 15:23.30 | Ainulindale | That was my plan |
| 15:23.32 | Ainulindale | Stop reading my mind |
| 15:23.35 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E15B6A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:23.36 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=GoD@82.201.222.42) |
| 15:23.40 | *** join/#openmoko arndt_ (n=arndt@port-92-196-73-201.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 15:23.46 | wurp2 | but, it uses the, er, don't remember the name, db used by the openmoko-contacts2 or whatever the app name is, not sure if that is of any use going forward under the ASU |
| 15:24.18 | Ainulindale | I thought the dbus services were shared by ASU/FSO/OM |
| 15:24.33 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: That is complicated |
| 15:24.52 | Ainulindale | Then please explain it to me :-) |
| 15:24.57 | XorA | Ainulindale: if you want to do new and original and actually useful development, you should check out FSO stuff |
| 15:24.57 | wurp2 | The old GTK stack dbus interface was temporary, I think |
| 15:25.02 | XorA | wurp2: yes |
| 15:25.07 | wurp2 | The new FSO dbus is the way to go |
| 15:25.17 | XorA | ASU is an evolutionary dead end |
| 15:25.23 | Ainulindale | Is it usable as is ? (FSO) |
| 15:25.33 | wurp2 | XorA: ! |
| 15:25.45 | wurp2 | XorA: You're with OM, no? |
| 15:25.50 | XorA | wurp2: yes |
| 15:25.50 | Ainulindale | (Can I check out FSO using mokomakefile in my present repository checkout ?) |
| 15:26.02 | XorA | wurp2: but ASU was supposed to be a quick hack to get working phone |
| 15:26.04 | wurp2 | XorA: That's the first time I've heard such a sentiment from someone within OM |
| 15:26.10 | XorA | wurp2: FSO was always the way forward |
| 15:26.11 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 15:26.14 | wurp2 | XorA: That's what I thought at first |
| 15:26.23 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p57B2A6CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:26.33 | XorA | one day ASU stuff may sit on FSO |
| 15:26.37 | wurp2 | XorA: But it seems that at least the ui tk ports in ASU would be useful going forward |
| 15:26.51 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@cpe-90-157-213-131.dynamic.amis.net) |
| 15:27.03 | Ainulindale | Tk ? |
| 15:27.05 | Ainulindale | shakes |
| 15:27.07 | XorA | wurp2: E wont go away, whether qtopia is more useful than Qt I dont know |
| 15:27.30 | XorA | wurp2: as we would through all the gsm bits of qtopia away to sit on FSO |
| 15:27.41 | Ainulindale | So, can I just modify my makefile to check out FSO knowing I already checked out and built OM ? |
| 15:27.45 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: tk = toolkit |
| 15:27.49 | wurp2 | sorry |
| 15:27.58 | Ainulindale | I can breathe again :-) |
| 15:28.03 | XorA | we havent gone insane enough yet to swith to tcl/tk |
| 15:28.31 | wurp2 | XorA: Yeah, that's what I've been wondering about - usefulness of Qtopia going forward, if we're moving to fso |
| 15:28.48 | XorA | wurp2: remeber mickeyl is the dude |
| 15:28.58 | wurp2 | :-) |
| 15:29.12 | wurp2 | OK, I think all of that is good news |
| 15:29.29 | XorA | well I suppose qte/fso on framebuffer would still make a nice device |
| 15:29.38 | wurp2 | Is there a MokoMakefile setup for building fso? |
| 15:29.42 | XorA | qte did zaurus well for many many year |
| 15:29.48 | Ainulindale | wurp2: that was my question :-p |
| 15:29.49 | XorA | wurp2: should be rwhitby added it |
| 15:29.59 | wurp2 | XorA: Excellent, thanks |
| 15:30.05 | Ainulindale | But there's nothing on the wiki |
| 15:30.17 | XorA | beware though, mickeyl says only milestone releases of FSO are stable, others are totally random |
| 15:30.41 | Ainulindale | XorA: so what is the way to begin development on FSO ? |
| 15:30.51 | wurp2 | XorA: Yeah, I've kind of been thinking of pulling stuff into my own repository, that I would manually update |
| 15:31.38 | wurp2 | and trying to build a hybrid fso/asu/2007.2 image that lets you make stable calls, gives the old 2007.2 app functionality, and lets you run the ASU ui-toolkit-port enabled goodness |
| 15:32.01 | XorA | wurp2: well FSO is the same E toolkit as ASU :-) |
| 15:32.03 | Ainulindale | (and which would pour you coffee ?) |
| 15:32.13 | wurp2 | Of course, it's probably a pipe dream - I have 3 kids and a job, so I only find bits of time to do stuff |
| 15:32.27 | XorA | Ainulindale: and give sweet lurvins |
| 15:32.43 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: Well, it seems almost all the pieces are there. A little glue and a repository with careful control on what updates go in could make it good |
| 15:33.01 | wurp2 | Or you could use the std repository and just use labels, or whatever passes for labels in git |
| 15:33.06 | wurp2 | is git ignorant. |
| 15:33.07 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@242.84-48-176.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:33.14 | Ainulindale | wurp2: yep, but as I said before, for my humble part, I have no clue on how to start, even to get FSO |
| 15:33.35 | XorA | Ainulindale: http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/ |
| 15:33.36 | Ainulindale | I'm fairly new to moko, and it's been a while since I followed close enough a FLOSS project |
| 15:33.52 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: Well, pull down standard MokoMakefile stuff, then write some scripts to dig around in git history looking for rwhitby's fso stuff :-/ |
| 15:34.05 | wurp2 | Then put it on the wiki so other people can get at it more easily |
| 15:34.15 | *** join/#openmoko ralisi (n=raphael@91-66-238-33-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 15:34.20 | XorA | make fso-image :-) |
| 15:34.34 | Ainulindale | With mokomakefile ? |
| 15:34.34 | wurp2 | XorA: Ah, that shouldn't be too hard :-) |
| 15:34.52 | XorA | Ainulindale: AFAIK the latest makefile should have that target |
| 15:34.53 | wurp2 | XorA: I'm gonna go throw that on the wiki |
| 15:35.05 | Ainulindale | XorA: yep but don't we have to get sources from another repository ? |
| 15:35.10 | XorA | I would double check first, maybe I just crazu halicinate |
| 15:35.18 | Ainulindale | (nope, you're not hallucinating) |
| 15:35.20 | wurp2 | Well, I'm at work, so I can't really |
| 15:35.22 | XorA | Ainulindale: makefile does all for you |
| 15:35.34 | Ainulindale | Hmmm there's a conf file for mokomakefile if I remember correctly |
| 15:35.40 | Ainulindale | Where you have to indicate the git branch |
| 15:36.17 | Ainulindale | And I suppose this conf file should be used to get the latest milestone sources |
| 15:36.29 | Ainulindale | But then, hey, I did man openmoko and it didn't find anything :-p |
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| 15:38.33 | Ainulindale | Right now the make fso-image did donwload e17 libs seemingly |
| 15:38.56 | Ainulindale | But as to launch the fso-image within qemu I have no clue |
| 15:39.05 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=GoD@82.201.222.42) |
| 15:40.05 | Ainulindale | Oh, an error |
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| 15:47.58 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r4c08e051d809 10/frameworkd/ (15 files in 3 dirs): Add dummy frameworkd to keep up with fso |
| 15:49.03 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: The build process will likely take hours |
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| 15:49.37 | *** join/#openmoko Mek (n=marijn@wlan-198085.nbw.tue.nl) |
| 15:49.43 | Sup3rkiddo | ( or weeks as with my case |
| 15:49.45 | Sup3rkiddo | ) |
| 15:49.47 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: And to launch it in qemu, there's a flash.sh out there somewhere - if you find that script & look at it to see where it gets the image, and either put your fso image from your build out there, or update the script to point to your image, you should be good |
| 15:49.58 | goodwill | oh man I did not realize there were multicollored lets on openmoko |
| 15:50.12 | wurp2 | Sup3rkiddo: Oh, I meant if it works at all. I worked on a build off & on for weeks before giving up |
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| 15:51.01 | Sup3rkiddo | yeah |
| 15:51.58 | wurp2 | Does anyone know if there is a VM image out there somewhere with the right sw installed to do the build? |
| 15:52.03 | *** join/#openmoko noon (n=noon@p57B26471.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:52.06 | noon | hello |
| 15:52.16 | wurp2 | I thought I heard there was one, but it was a passworded zipfile or something, and no one knew the password |
| 15:52.35 | wurp2 | Or maybe it was the primary user login pwd that wasn't known |
| 15:53.14 | Sup3rkiddo | wurp2, even if it existed i am pretty sure its archaeic |
| 15:54.31 | wurp2 | Good point |
| 15:54.32 | noon | today i played a little with libgmsd-tool and get a segmentation fault when i try to list the sms (command "sl") |
| 15:54.42 | wurp2 | noon: I do too |
| 15:54.44 | noon | how can i track down the error? |
| 15:54.55 | wurp2 | Unfortunately libgsmd-tool is legacy |
| 15:55.04 | wurp2 | well, gsmd is legacy |
| 15:55.22 | wurp2 | noon: I just fished for my smses |
| 15:55.33 | noon | okey. what is the new shiney tool for that stuff? |
| 15:55.39 | wurp2 | noon: Grabbed #1, then 2, until I got an error |
| 15:55.47 | wurp2 | noon: The FSO dbus interface |
| 15:55.53 | wurp2 | noon: And mickeyterm |
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| 15:56.54 | noon | this is not included in the scaredycat image you gave me? |
| 15:57.44 | wurp2 | noon: No :-( |
| 15:58.01 | wurp2 | noon: That's in the fso |
| 15:58.07 | wurp2 | noon: The sw is all in flux now :-( |
| 15:58.42 | noon | what is this "fso"? |
| 15:58.58 | wurp2 | noon: But you can do the fishing like I was talking about earlier to get your smses in libgsmd-tool |
| 15:59.02 | Ainulindale | Hey, another failure |
| 15:59.14 | noon | wurp2: I haven't seen any sw that is not in any kind of flux ;o) |
| 15:59.33 | Ainulindale | wurp2: I just thought the repository was different |
| 15:59.40 | Tig| | noon: this should help clear things up : http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ |
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| 16:00.20 | Ainulindale | But either way, it fails |
| 16:00.24 | wurp2 | noon: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework |
| 16:00.33 | Ainulindale | wurp2: (I built OM yesterday by the way) |
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| 16:00.50 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@62.215.80.67) |
| 16:00.53 | wurp2 | noon: That's because I pointed you at the ScaredyCat image, because it works (with some slight stabilitiy issues) |
| 16:01.13 | wurp2 | noon: Sorry, disregard the last; I misread your message |
| 16:01.35 | wurp2 | noon: And Tig|'s link for fso is probably better than mine :-) |
| 16:01.41 | Ainulindale | Seems there's a 404 for some package |
| 16:02.54 | *** part/#openmoko xMDKx (n=mdkcore@nat/mandriva/x-df44d35e233e8659) |
| 16:03.02 | noon | thanks both of you. i will read now the two pages :-) |
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| 16:04.42 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 16:05.06 | Ainulindale | cvs update: Updating doc |
| 16:05.07 | Ainulindale | 404 Not Found |
| 16:05.25 | Tig| | I had a play with the snapshot of the ASU earlier it was looking good, called the house phone on it, it is really coming along :) dropped down the frame rate and the speed picked up quite a bit :) |
| 16:05.26 | Ainulindale | NOTE: Task failed: Fetch failed: e17/libs/emotion |
| 16:05.59 | Ainulindale | http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/e17.libs.epsilon_anoncvs.enlightenment.org__20080630.tar.gz <= |
| 16:06.15 | *** join/#openmoko samgee (n=samgee@231.81-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 16:07.30 | Ainulindale | Different name... |
| 16:07.38 | Ainulindale | What the heck |
| 16:08.22 | *** join/#openmoko HellDragon (n=jd@modemcable213.6-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 16:08.37 | mwester | It's trying to find cached tarballs of the cvs versions it's fetching; if they don't exist it goes to cvs instead. NBD. |
| 16:08.59 | Ainulindale | Yep but it doesn't go to CVS apparently |
| 16:09.13 | wurp2 | Tig|: What issues did you have w/ ASU? |
| 16:09.13 | torpor | interesting about the gsm firmware flash. |
| 16:09.20 | Ainulindale | He's apparently trying to open ~/.cvspass |
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| 16:09.41 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: Maybe you need to cvs login? |
| 16:09.47 | Ainulindale | cvs login to what ? :-) |
| 16:09.49 | torpor | i just got home after taking my gta01 for a spin with scaredy's latest image, and am happy to finally have a tangogps log file to use for osmething interesting .. ;) |
| 16:10.05 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: Whatever repository it's trying to get into ;-) |
| 16:10.11 | SpeedEvil | It's not very useful torpor. |
| 16:10.20 | SpeedEvil | torpor: I don't think anything will import that. |
| 16:10.25 | Ainulindale | Yep, but if I knew what repository it tries to get me into, I would already be trying that :-p |
| 16:10.32 | SpeedEvil | torpor: I just got it to spit out a NMEA copy to /media/card |
| 16:10.34 | torpor | SpeedEvil: its the first time i've ever had gps working reliably on this stupid piece of junk since i got it, so i'm just glad to have it. i can make do with the data. |
| 16:10.37 | wurp2 | torpor: You could use the gsm.gz log... |
| 16:10.50 | Tig| | wurp2: did not wake up after going to sleep was the biggy, but a few niggles like entering contact details, the keyboard currently lacks a delete key and also rather amusingly a number pad when you are on a phone field :) |
| 16:11.09 | torpor | argh. |
| 16:11.10 | torpor | godamnit. |
| 16:11.18 | torpor | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 0 Jun 25 09:39 20080625_093928.log |
| 16:11.18 | torpor | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jun 25 10:38 20080625_103857.log |
| 16:11.20 | wurp2 | torpor: Wow, gps has been pretty easy for me... after getting gllin on the *#$! thing |
| 16:11.22 | Ainulindale | Tig|: who needs to dial on a phone anyway ? :-) |
| 16:11.22 | *** part/#openmoko Ghiottone|work (i=5512f414@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f9f50f9bafa84f0e) |
| 16:11.42 | wurp2 | Tig|: Can you make a stroke to the left to delete? |
| 16:12.09 | wurp2 | It does sound as if ASU is coming along |
| 16:12.22 | Tig| | Ainulindale: oh there was on the phone app but not on the contacts, I don;t think me typing zero one five four etc etc would work |
| 16:12.35 | Ainulindale | :-p |
| 16:12.41 | torpor | here is what i want to be able to do with the gta01: use it as a phone if needed, but not as its primary use. use it as a gprs gateway over USB and bluetooth for whatever else i have that will do USB and bluetooth. use it as a web browser. put squid on it, so i have my own local cache of data that goes over the GPRS. run GPS all the time and tell me where the device is, 100% of the time. browse the web. take calls. make them. send sms when necessar |
| 16:12.49 | Tig| | wurp2: did not seem to work also you could not highlight text in the imput field to type over it |
| 16:13.24 | torpor | i believe this thing can be made to do all of the above, already. so maybe its time to fork om and make my own image, just like scaredy. ;) |
| 16:13.54 | *** join/#openmoko yakischloba (n=jake@rnkfoods.com) |
| 16:13.55 | wurp2 | torpor: The ScaredyCat image can do all that, can't it? |
| 16:14.00 | wurp2 | Except squid |
| 16:14.02 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@62.215.80.67) |
| 16:14.22 | wurp2 | And you'd have to do some scripting/routing work to get usb & bt gateway going, but afaik all the sw is there |
| 16:14.34 | wurp2 | Tig|: Those are minor issues compread to before :-) |
| 16:14.39 | wurp2 | afk, lunch |
| 16:14.46 | torpor | dunno, haven't got there yet, but if it can do all of that, i'm gonna make it do all of that, and then back up the image and forget about any future OM releases. ;) |
| 16:15.25 | Ainulindale | Well I've echoed "anonymous" to ~/.cvspass and it seems to do the trick |
| 16:16.24 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@242.84-48-176.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:17.04 | wurp2|away | Ainulindale: Heh, good thinking |
| 16:17.38 | wurp2|away | torpor: The caveat is that you will only have 5 hours battery life, max, running gps all the time |
| 16:17.48 | wurp2|away | And that's if you underclock a bit |
| 16:17.53 | wurp2|away | Really afk now :-) |
| 16:18.09 | Ainulindale | Man it's hot in there |
| 16:18.24 | Ainulindale | Don't go to France, it's like an oven |
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| 16:20.00 | nevor | mais non, il fait bon |
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| 16:20.11 | _HansDietae_ | http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/4499618/ |
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| 16:20.17 | nevor | jamais content ces francais :) |
| 16:20.20 | Ainulindale | nevor: Noooon :-) |
| 16:20.30 | Ainulindale | Moi j'aime bien quand il fait frais :-) |
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| 16:27.05 | Ainulindale | I'm soooo eager to develop on the freerunner |
| 16:27.17 | Ainulindale | I'm almost sure I won't manage to do a thing but hey... |
| 16:28.41 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g228089156.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:28.55 | Tig| | Ainulindale: this is where I am starting out : http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2008/07/01/openmoko-freerunner-test-application/ :) |
| 16:29.28 | Ainulindale | Nice :-) |
| 16:29.42 | Ainulindale | But first I would like to be able to come up with a working fso image... |
| 16:29.57 | Ainulindale | Seems to me like a fairly necessary beginning :-) |
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| 16:32.51 | jOERG_rw | Ainulindale: 33°C here in Germany/Nuernberg - that's free air |
| 16:33.18 | Ainulindale | Yep, free as in free hot and sour beer |
| 16:33.24 | *** join/#openmoko satyr (n=satyr@193.188.117.67) |
| 16:33.25 | Ainulindale | I prefer my air free AND fresh |
| 16:33.32 | Ainulindale | (As in "guinness" fresh) |
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| 16:45.36 | `pwgen` | mwester:ping |
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| 16:55.12 | fengshaun | will neo freerunner be available in canada? |
| 16:55.32 | *** join/#openmoko tanner (n=marc@43-120.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 16:55.40 | mmontour | You'll have to order it from the US, but it will work in Canada. |
| 16:56.43 | fengshaun | ok, when would I be able to order one? |
| 16:57.09 | mmontour | July 7 is the current guess |
| 16:57.25 | fengshaun | July 7? that's good!! thanks! |
| 16:57.33 | fengshaun | there will be announcements though, right? |
| 16:57.42 | TAsn | sure |
| 16:57.49 | TAsn | just wait till the topic changes |
| 16:57.56 | fengshaun | :D |
| 16:57.56 | TAsn | or check moko.com store |
| 16:58.00 | TAsn | :( |
| 16:58.03 | TAsn | :)* |
| 16:58.07 | tanner | hi, can someone please clarify the warranty of group sales? i saw that the question was posted on the mailing list but couldn't find an answer there. |
| 16:58.23 | fengshaun | thanks mmontour and TAsn |
| 16:58.38 | Pjj | anyone knows when pulster is sending out emails with payment instructions? (atleast that's what I could make up from the german email) |
| 16:58.42 | TAsn | fengshaun, sure thing. |
| 16:59.46 | henkie | is there a place in the wiki where shops are mentioned / reviewed? |
| 16:59.59 | *** join/#openmoko gopi_ (n=gopi@62.215.80.67) |
| 17:00.01 | henkie | although maybe a wiki would be the best for those :) |
| 17:00.06 | henkie | wouldnt |
| 17:00.38 | Pjj | well if they are on the openmoko site you can be semi sure they aren't scammers ;) |
| 17:01.03 | henkie | Pjj, well it IS a wiki :) |
| 17:01.06 | henkie | but i agree |
| 17:01.26 | SpeedEvil | shudders. |
| 17:01.35 | Ainulindale | FSO image built ! |
| 17:01.38 | tanner | also is someone in here from the switzerland group order, who is responsible for it and is it working out ok? |
| 17:01.43 | SpeedEvil | (in respect of the porn spammers on the wiki back in the day) |
| 17:01.58 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-152-1-84-144.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:03.26 | tanner | it sucks big time that i probably won't have a freerunner until the end of july |
| 17:04.27 | Qwell | so how do group orders work? do all of the people give the money to one person to make the order? |
| 17:05.04 | textshell | Qwell: basicly however a group agrees to do it. |
| 17:05.45 | Pjj | so no one knows anything about pulster.de ? aka when they are shipping and or sending mails with payment instructions |
| 17:06.03 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z5aca.z.pppool.de) |
| 17:06.22 | henkie | Pjj, yeah, i was also checking out there page, but no ssl stuff to enter my information |
| 17:06.36 | henkie | otherwise i would have ordered already |
| 17:06.44 | henkie | their* |
| 17:06.56 | textshell | Pjj: i heard some people got confirmation from pulster for their order. I guess the other didn't make it for the first shipment.... |
| 17:07.05 | henkie | working does wonders for the brain when coming home :) |
| 17:07.30 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@93-81-56-207.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 17:07.41 | textshell | henkie: you don't enter anything finacial at pulster.de... they only accept what i guess is called wire transfer in english. |
| 17:07.54 | henkie | textshell, i know, but it still put me off |
| 17:08.12 | Pjj | to qoute a part from their email : "Sie erhalten bei manueller Bearbeitung dann eine zweite Email mit Informationen zum Versand und Zahlung und Bankdaten. Bis dahin bitte etwas Geduld und viel Vorfreude ... |
| 17:08.12 | Pjj | " |
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| 17:08.25 | henkie | site is also ugly as hell, you i thought there was a slight chance of scammers |
| 17:08.32 | henkie | you -> so |
| 17:09.16 | textshell | they sold neos and i didn't hear any complaints on the mailing list. |
| 17:09.49 | henkie | i see, that's always good to hear |
| 17:10.21 | henkie | i am also seeing the wiki is full of ppl who are ordering from them |
| 17:10.22 | textshell | henkie: if you're in doubt you should do some basic research... |
| 17:10.39 | henkie | textshell, that's why i am here |
| 17:10.46 | Pjj | afaik they are the cheapest in europe |
| 17:10.48 | henkie | this is my standard recon :) |
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| 17:37.47 | Ainulindale | How can I be sure I'm running FSO ? |
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| 17:39.45 | balrog-kun | Ainulindale: the welcome screen has (i think) some blue background and four buttons, at least that's what i hear |
| 17:40.14 | Ainulindale | Well then despite the fact that I built fso-image and flash-qemu-local with mokomakefile, I didn't manage to have FSO |
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| 17:42.40 | Any_Key | Ainulindale, look at a http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/freerunner1.4.swf |
| 17:43.00 | Basheri | that's asu |
| 17:43.07 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (n=fsteinel@pD9FBBF02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:43.07 | Basheri | not fso |
| 17:43.08 | *** join/#openmoko lzy-- (n=lzy@59-126-117-54.HINET-IP.hinet.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:43.52 | Any_Key | Basheri, oops my mistake |
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| 17:45.16 | Basheri | hehe :D, well everyone makes mistakes in this matter (it was quite confusing before that clarification post) |
| 17:46.47 | Any_Key | yea |
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| 17:58.24 | *** join/#openmoko rafael2k (n=rafael2k@201.82.105.195) |
| 17:58.44 | rafael2k | hi all! |
| 17:59.05 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5e215.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 17:59.07 | rafael2k | Anyone know if its possible to implement secure conversation w/ the current hardware? |
| 17:59.25 | joss | hmm, how linux operating system is suppose to read , sim card information and r-uim? |
| 17:59.28 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 17:59.35 | textshell | rafael2k: not over gsm. |
| 18:00.00 | rafael2k | textshell: what hardware modification should I do to make it possible? |
| 18:00.00 | textshell | joss: via the gsm modem's protocol. |
| 18:00.19 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * re5bbe24bd9e4 10/frameworkd/ (15 files in 3 dirs): |
| 18:00.19 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: Have a simple python script exposing ListObjectsByInterface under |
| 18:00.19 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: org.freesmartphone.frameworkd |
| 18:00.20 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r550d194df1a6 10/frameworkd/ (frameworkd.conf frameworkd.py): oops, add the python script and dbus system.d conf for real |
| 18:00.20 | textshell | rafael2k: add umts maybe. If you're lucky that would work. |
| 18:00.55 | *** join/#openmoko zerghase (n=zerghase@dslb-084-057-031-225.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:01.05 | mjr | Incorrect. You can do encrypted voice over gsm-data |
| 18:01.16 | textshell | rafael2k: well i'm not sure, the details are on the mailling list. But there's no way to use encryption over gsm voice mode or grps i was told. |
| 18:01.31 | textshell | mjr: i forgot that one. |
| 18:01.54 | mjr | (and that's how many others like cryptophone do it) |
| 18:02.05 | mjr | (well, I don't know about many) |
| 18:02.07 | mjr | anyway... |
| 18:02.14 | morricone | isn't there a large lag? |
| 18:02.15 | rafael2k | mjr: Can I route the voice to pass to a software I wrote? |
| 18:02.20 | mjr | rafael2k, yes |
| 18:02.21 | joss | textshell: well i have not seen a single ppp configuration that indicates that ruim for cdma is red from somewhere else than from users input:( |
| 18:02.51 | rafael2k | mjr: wow, that is really great!!! |
| 18:02.58 | mjr | rafael2k, but if you're thinking about doing analog encryption or something that sends encrypted voice over a gsm _voice_ call as opposed to data, don't |
| 18:03.27 | rafael2k | mjr: why? |
| 18:03.49 | textshell | joss: cdma? freerunner is in the gsm world only. |
| 18:03.51 | rafael2k | mjr: I'm thinking about sending encrypted voice data over a normal voice call |
| 18:04.05 | SpeedEvil | raff: you basically can't do that. |
| 18:04.11 | SpeedEvil | rad: it's a common question. |
| 18:04.12 | mjr | you can't bypass the gsm voice codec, and you can't push enough data through it |
| 18:04.23 | SpeedEvil | That's not strictly accurate. |
| 18:04.31 | SpeedEvil | But, it's _horribly_ complex. |
| 18:04.33 | mjr | just forget it, do support for gsm-data calls |
| 18:04.39 | SpeedEvil | The fundamental problems are: |
| 18:05.09 | SpeedEvil | A phone-phone call has two codecs in the signal path, which can't be picked by the user. |
| 18:05.27 | rafael2k | mjr: Is it easy to make a hardware modification to by-pass the gsm voice codec? |
| 18:05.30 | SpeedEvil | There are bit errors injected in at least two places between these. |
| 18:05.33 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 18:05.51 | SpeedEvil | raff: that only bypasses your codec, not the network-side one. |
| 18:06.01 | joss | textshell: yes, well it was more a linux and gsm, linux and cdma question, for gsm -- perhaps this asterisk reads sim cards |
| 18:06.06 | rafael2k | hummm |
| 18:06.37 | rafael2k | but lets suppose there are two modified open mokos in a normal voice call |
| 18:06.50 | mjr | I said forget it |
| 18:06.50 | mjr | (sorry, I'm tired of people having the same plan over and over again) |
| 18:06.52 | SpeedEvil | rafe: What this ends up as is the only way to send data at a reasoanable speed over GSM with real errors is to put a speech-synth driven by a datastream on one end. |
| 18:06.59 | SpeedEvil | rafael2k: doesn't work |
| 18:06.59 | textshell | rafael2k: gsm module is closed anyway. |
| 18:07.00 | rafael2k | :) |
| 18:07.23 | SpeedEvil | rafael2k: you have the network-side codecs that you can't bypass |
| 18:07.24 | textshell | joss: what are you trying to do? |
| 18:07.57 | mjr | textshell, data over voice |
| 18:08.09 | *** join/#openmoko HauDyr (n=kim@knet-gip124.prod.bolignet.dk) |
| 18:08.30 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rea25d8a143b2 10/frameworkd/ (frameworkd frameworkd.py): change filename and filemode |
| 18:08.34 | mjr | more spesifically, voice over data over voice |
| 18:08.37 | rafael2k | SpeedEvil: thats it, a soundmodem in both sides, scrambling the voices |
| 18:09.02 | SpeedEvil | rafael2k: 1.3Kbits/second can be achieved using a data-driven vocoder, and 'speech' recognition at the far end. |
| 18:09.27 | joss | textshell: i am trying to understand how, ppp reads gsm's or cdma's card information, or it is managed by kernel module? |
| 18:09.40 | SpeedEvil | You cannot simply scramble the voice, as the codecs are designed to throw away non-voice sounds. |
| 18:09.42 | rafael2k | SpeedEvil: 1.3Kbits/s is great |
| 18:09.58 | SpeedEvil | rafael2k: yes - that's only gotten by extreme complexity. |
| 18:10.11 | rafael2k | SpeedEvil: but I would scramble the voice respecting the codec filters |
| 18:10.18 | SpeedEvil | rafael2k: You can't |
| 18:10.31 | textshell | joss: for data via mobile phone your one stop for communication with the sim is the gsm-modem (or whatever mobile network you use modem) |
| 18:10.38 | SpeedEvil | rafael2k: Unless it sounds voice-like, the codec discards the data. |
| 18:10.58 | SpeedEvil | rafael2k: especially in the presence of any bit errors at all. And there will always be bit errors. |
| 18:11.05 | textshell | joss: in the case of the Freerunner, some AT extensions over a serial port to the calypso. |
| 18:11.58 | rafael2k | SpeedEvil: but using a soundmodem software, that modulates the scrambled voice using a common sound card, I could pass the codec band filters, right? |
| 18:12.25 | joss | textshell: funny thing is, all cdma modems, come with ruim slot, but while ppp'ing username and password are needed, so how does user know them? |
| 18:12.35 | CIA-46 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r4b1a9cd07488 10/odeviced/src/plugins/display/ (display.c display.h): remove display .c/.h, they will be generated anyway |
| 18:12.44 | *** join/#openmoko noon (n=noon@p57B26471.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:12.46 | noon | hello |
| 18:12.49 | mjr | wonders how many times SpeedEvil has had to explain this |
| 18:12.59 | rafael2k | sorry guys |
| 18:13.32 | noon | let's say, i want to fix the segmantation fault in the libgsmd, what do i need and where do i get it? |
| 18:13.57 | rafael2k | I hope gnuradio people do implement the gsm stack ;) |
| 18:14.31 | *** join/#openmoko hari (n=hklein@i59F744EA.versanet.de) |
| 18:14.33 | textshell | joss: because their provider has a nice website with the tarifs and the information or sends sms with the needed data. |
| 18:14.33 | balrog-kun | noon: just your keyboard, gdb and the compiler |
| 18:15.00 | balrog-kun | it's no different than any other program debugging wise |
| 18:15.20 | noon | i installed gdb on the device, but that doesn't give me a clou where to look. |
| 18:15.45 | noon | for the compiler: do i have to go through all this compiling stuff with bb? |
| 18:15.52 | joss | textshell: well aren't there some ppp implementations that can read the data from ruim? |
| 18:16.19 | textshell | joss: i don't know ruim. But for sims, i don't think that commonly stored there. |
| 18:16.26 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peepsalo@bwext.kpimdp.com) |
| 18:16.33 | noon | lasttime i did, it took me 10hours an in the middle of it i got some strange symbol version issue i could fix |
| 18:16.42 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 18:17.05 | raff | SpeedEvil, you aren't really talking to me, right? :) |
| 18:17.48 | joss | textshell: well the case for me is, i would love to buy openmoko, but internet here is offered via cdma, which would be superior, for embedded usage, low cost and reasonably fast:( |
| 18:18.22 | textshell | joss: cdma? forget it. Freerunner only supports wlan, gsm and gprs. |
| 18:18.49 | mjr | and bluetooth! :] |
| 18:19.00 | zash | joss: but, cdma is not open |
| 18:19.08 | joss | textshell: i absolutely do not know, how arbitary devices can be registered with networks, since the company does not offer ruim cards, neither passwords, only it's own devices that are somehow hardcoded, one lan router, and one usb modem:( |
| 18:19.28 | mjr | yeah, don't wait up for an open cdma device |
| 18:19.49 | textshell | joss: sorry, you got the wrong company for anything free than. |
| 18:20.11 | joss | textshell: yeah sadly that covers all the country here |
| 18:20.44 | joss | textshell: phones that could do cdma450mhz smartphones are there, but how to connect to networks none knows |
| 18:21.12 | rafael2k | I think I'll implement secure comunication using cw modulation and vocoder in both sides |
| 18:21.27 | joss | textshell: yeah the only smartphone i found that can do 450mhz , is sadly not linux one, vm5 |
| 18:21.58 | rafael2k | the gsm codec will not rip-off the morse code :) |
| 18:22.20 | joss | textshell: wifi seems pointless, it's coverage maximum is patented to 250m, wimax makes more sence |
| 18:22.25 | textshell | joss: switch provider, petitions the FCC or something like that. There's nothing an open phone can do if your provider doesn't allow other phones on the network. |
| 18:22.35 | mjr | sure you can do very slow data with things like morse code or just dtmf |
| 18:22.35 | textshell | joss: end of story. |
| 18:22.38 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@host-84-220-79-45.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:22.52 | zash | note: wimax sucks |
| 18:22.56 | *** join/#openmoko holymoly (n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 18:23.03 | mjr | yeah what zash said |
| 18:23.25 | mjr | wifi certainly doesn't make sense for being reliant on for phone purposes, but at least it still has many uses :] |
| 18:24.11 | *** join/#openmoko kuzgun (n=deniz@unaffiliated/kuzgun) |
| 18:24.56 | joss | textshell: but based on what they could allow some other phones to the network, registering the connection after some phones serial number? |
| 18:25.36 | joss | or just username password, then 10users could use those same ones |
| 18:25.37 | textshell | joss: i hardly know enough about gsm, i don't know anything about your situation. |
| 18:26.51 | zash | a local energy company has wimax here |
| 18:28.00 | joss | zash: here also northern part of the country is covered, i do not know anything of this standard's auth methods also, and seems openmoko does not support that one also |
| 18:28.39 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 18:29.28 | SpeedEvil | raff: sorry - no. |
| 18:29.38 | raff | ;) |
| 18:29.54 | SpeedEvil | rafael2k: there are _no_ band filters |
| 18:29.56 | zash | why didnt someone come up with a simple upgrade to gsm, that makes it faster |
| 18:30.13 | mjr | zash, oh like edge? |
| 18:30.21 | zash | yea |
| 18:30.23 | zash | but better! |
| 18:30.28 | SpeedEvil | rafael2k: the GSM codec works out the state of a model of the human throat that needs to be used to generate a given sound, then transmits this. |
| 18:31.08 | SpeedEvil | rafael2k: If the human throat cannot produce a given sound, it's typically _really_ badly coded by the codecs. |
| 18:31.10 | zash | or, convice cities to install free wifi-nodes everywhere! |
| 18:31.36 | *** join/#openmoko solar_george (n=solargeo@80-41-147-75.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:32.58 | rafael2k | SpeedEvil: good to know that, thats why a vocoder would perform better than any other modulation, right? |
| 18:33.21 | SpeedEvil | rafael2k: yes - it's as that's the only thing the codec is designed tocode. |
| 18:33.54 | SpeedEvil | rafael2k: it's like a typist - if you get them to type text, they are quite accurate. If you present them with a binary file of a JPEG, they are likely to be very inaccurate. |
| 18:36.04 | joss | textshell: but can you imagine, how the provider knows what device, tries to connect to networks, what information is sent there, do not know cdma, but for gsm? |
| 18:36.38 | textshell | joss: NO. did you try wikipedia or google? |
| 18:36.42 | joss | textshell: for instance lan access, perhaps this could be mac address, what about phones |
| 18:36.53 | rafael2k | SpeedEvil: OK, thanks! now I can start my research on this topic :) |
| 18:37.16 | *** join/#openmoko erko (n=eolson@maze.mcs.anl.gov) |
| 18:37.21 | joss | textshell: or perhaps some cable modems serial number even |
| 18:37.25 | zash | joss: the sim card |
| 18:37.28 | zash | joss: in case of gsm |
| 18:37.53 | SpeedEvil | rafael2k: There was a link to a paper on this topic posted in the channel. Look at PDF files linked to from here |
| 18:38.02 | SpeedEvil | Though I forget where the logs are. |
| 18:38.04 | SpeedEvil | !logs |
| 18:38.04 | cdbot2 | Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: |
| 18:38.05 | cdbot2 | http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko |
| 18:38.06 | cdbot2 | Live-logs are available at |
| 18:38.07 | joss | zash: yeah, i guess there is no gsm service without sim card, but there seems to be cdma ones, without ruim cards, which is confusing |
| 18:38.09 | cdbot2 | http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog |
| 18:38.11 | cdbot2 | See ?? help-logs for usage instructions |
| 18:38.11 | zash | joss: for cdma, there can be something similar to the sim-card, or, built into thee phone |
| 18:38.12 | SpeedEvil | points at cdbot2. |
| 18:38.20 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@g227087071.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:38.48 | joss | zash: ruim card, but the providers here do not use that techinique , and lots do not, instead offering their own set of devices |
| 18:39.46 | zash | joss: some cdma phones is modified gsm phones, with the gsm radio/modem replaced by cdma radio |
| 18:39.47 | joss | zash: i guess they identify those devices instead , not after the card |
| 18:40.29 | joss | zash: there are some that can do dual also, but i think i just can not connect with them, since the providers get a note, that this is not one of their offered ones |
| 18:42.25 | joss | zash:http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CDMA has the thing mentioned there, says that verizon can allow arbitary cdma devices somehow, but how exactly, that is not descirbed |
| 18:42.25 | zash | cdma makes it easyer for providers to choose what phones goes on their network |
| 18:43.13 | *** join/#openmoko demos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 18:43.26 | zash | due to CDMA beeing a proprietary technology |
| 18:43.32 | joss | zash: yeah but according to protocol, what is the variable after what they decide, which one is which |
| 18:43.35 | zash | GSM is an open spec |
| 18:44.23 | *** join/#openmoko ahhdaljhdla (n=milko@3mhz.net) |
| 18:44.26 | ahhdaljhdla | What is ASU? |
| 18:44.34 | nuclear_eclipse | April Software Update |
| 18:44.35 | zash | ahhdaljhdla: topic? |
| 18:44.47 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.249.52) |
| 18:44.51 | ahhdaljhdla | Thank you |
| 18:45.06 | *** join/#openmoko Ritam (i=83605908@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a32c27ceb7fe6db7) |
| 18:45.30 | zash | nuclear_eclipse: they s/april/august/ for a more realistic name |
| 18:45.30 | rafael2k | SpeedEvil: Is this pdf posted recently? |
| 18:45.57 | nuclear_eclipse | zash: ah, I missed that then |
| 18:46.09 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 18:46.12 | joss | zash: for gsm, do they collect only id/sim imformation.. or olso some other phone specific and unique number like IMEI? |
| 18:46.14 | Ritam | Is there any (reasonable) way to obtain a Freerunner in the US? |
| 18:46.30 | nuclear_eclipse | Ritam: store opens Monday |
| 18:46.38 | Ritam | ah |
| 18:46.44 | nuclear_eclipse | openmoko.com/store.html |
| 18:47.27 | zash | joss: i think they can see IMEI, but the sim provides auth |
| 18:47.46 | Ritam | Is it ready for everyday use? I don't mind if it's not, but I want to replace my oldish (2.5 years) phone with it |
| 18:48.22 | joss | zash: yeah, what i would like to know, what they can see for cdma to decide which device it is, i guess none knows that here:( |
| 18:48.49 | nuclear_eclipse | Ritam: if you don't need a super-stable phone, some says it's decently stable, depending on which system image you choose |
| 18:49.07 | zash | joss: "Unlike the Electronic Serial Number or MEID of CDMA and other wireless networks, the IMEI is only used to identify the device, ..." |
| 18:49.08 | joss | zash: do you know, what number cable-internet provider sees, to decide what device is on the line, that could be starter? |
| 18:49.18 | nuclear_eclipse | but I don't know because I'm still waiting on the US store to open on Monday to order mine :) |
| 18:49.22 | Ritam | lol |
| 18:49.53 | zash | joss: ISP's are only dumb pipes, they dont care what device your plugging in as long as it complies with the IP-standards |
| 18:50.11 | zash | joss: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imei |
| 18:50.22 | *** join/#openmoko lzy-- (n=lzy@59-126-117-54.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 18:50.42 | zash | joss: it would be very nice if cellphone companys could be reduced to "dumb pipes" |
| 18:50.45 | joss | zash: i wish it was so also for cdma internet providers:) |
| 18:50.50 | zash | joss: as they were before |
| 18:51.13 | *** join/#openmoko vernier (n=vernier@s216-232-85-208.bc.hsia.telus.net) |
| 18:51.52 | Ritam | Are most of the developers using one as their primary cell phone? Anyone know? I'd wanted to get an EeePC, but have been holding out on this instead, lol. |
| 18:52.04 | joss | zash: i have heard , that some register lan card mac address, but that can be cloned i think |
| 18:52.42 | zash | joss: yes, that is possible |
| 18:52.50 | zash | joss: but not realy useful |
| 18:52.56 | Ritam | cable providers in the us usually do "tie" to a MAC address |
| 18:53.03 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e181162242.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:53.07 | nuclear_eclipse | Ritam: I read on the mailing list that at least one person was, but I'm not going to trust it right away; I'm going to get a pre-pay SIM from T-Mobile to test it with until it's stable enough for daily use |
| 18:53.07 | Ritam | I know both comcast and roadrunner do in my experience. |
| 18:53.28 | Ritam | nuclear_eclipse: that's not a bad idea, I should give that a try. |
| 18:54.01 | mjr | I use a GTA01 as my cell. The reliability is not quite up there (with an oldish gsmd image), but... |
| 18:54.02 | nuclear_eclipse | if you go to a T-Mobile store, you can get just the SIM card for less than you would get the SIM with a "free" phone |
| 18:54.20 | zash | quite useless to bind to MAC, you could just have a NAT-box |
| 18:54.37 | nuclear_eclipse | zash: they only bind to a MAC for the cable modem itself |
| 18:54.55 | zash | nuclear_eclipse: ARP |
| 18:54.56 | nuclear_eclipse | at least on RR, you can have anything you want behind the modem |
| 18:54.56 | *** join/#openmoko renato_ (n=renato@200.184.118.132) |
| 18:55.06 | joss | zash: hmm, perhaps this MEID number is , reading the wiki page, how did you understand, perhaps phones and cdma routers send their MEID numbers to stations? |
| 18:55.07 | Ritam | mine binds to the MAC of the machine behind the modem, as mine is a "dumb" modem (i.e., no routing/NAT capabilities in the modem) |
| 18:55.07 | torpor | !ping ScaredyCat |
| 18:55.08 | zash | binding IP to MAC |
| 18:55.11 | cdbot2 | pong |
| 18:55.12 | torpor | !seen ScaredyCat |
| 18:55.16 | cdbot2 | torpor, ScaredyCat is right here! |
| 18:55.17 | Ritam | more of a ethernet-cable bridge |
| 18:55.17 | torpor | !last ScaredyCat |
| 18:55.54 | CM | ~seen ScaredyCat |
| 18:55.58 | apt | scaredycat is currently on #openmoko. Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 2d 3h 24m 51s, last said: '*blink*'. |
| 18:56.01 | zash | Ritam: i have one of those, i tried to connect another computer, but it didnt get a ip |
| 18:56.03 | *** join/#openmoko mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de) |
| 18:56.07 | CM | torpor: :) |
| 18:56.11 | nuclear_eclipse | Ritam: ah, mine still has a MAC though |
| 18:56.21 | nuclear_eclipse | it just passes everything through |
| 18:56.23 | zash | Ritam: but that is probably some timeout |
| 18:57.03 | *** join/#openmoko mazzen (n=mortel@u30-237.dsl.vianetworks.de) |
| 18:57.18 | zash | arp cache |
| 18:57.20 | Ritam | zash: mine you have to call comcast to release it |
| 18:57.32 | Ritam | but they will do it, no questions asked... just a pain |
| 18:57.36 | Ritam | 20 minutes on hold normally |
| 18:57.58 | zash | Ritam: what if you manualy set the ip on another box |
| 18:58.21 | joss | zash:reading that that MEID reference, it seems to me, that MEID should be the number station collects, but english is not my native, so how did you understand? |
| 18:58.23 | Ritam | never tried that, actually |
| 18:59.30 | *** join/#openmoko mgregson (n=mgregson@S0106000f66911f39.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 18:59.45 | zash | joss: something like that, a id that identifies you/your phone |
| 18:59.58 | zash | joss: and in gsm that functions is in the sim-card |
| 19:00.16 | Ritam | nuclear_eclipse: thinking about it, I wonder if AT&T would just give me a sim card tied to my existing shared plan for $9.99/mo without a phone |
| 19:00.39 | joss | zash:and esn's for some, wonder can it be sniffed from their device, and reprogrammed to the phones chip storing this identifier |
| 19:00.47 | nuclear_eclipse | Ritam: hmm, i never thought about doing that on my T-Mobile plan, thanks :) |
| 19:01.18 | Qwell | Ritam: they would |
| 19:01.35 | Qwell | just say you already have a phone, and just need a sim for it. they may charge a small amount for the sim |
| 19:01.37 | nuclear_eclipse | Qwell: the question is whether they would want him to extend a contract or not |
| 19:01.48 | Qwell | nope, shouldn't |
| 19:02.06 | Ritam | I think they should be happy to get another $10/mo under the current contract... though that line might then be locked in until termination |
| 19:02.17 | Ritam | no idea if you can drop additional lines |
| 19:02.21 | nuclear_eclipse | yeah, that's what I would worry about |
| 19:02.23 | zash | Qwell: i have read that at&t charges as much for sim+plan as sim+plan+phone |
| 19:02.31 | Qwell | they do |
| 19:02.37 | Qwell | but you aren't buying a phone, so +phone goes away |
| 19:03.50 | zash | but it costs the same? |
| 19:03.52 | Ritam | if they do charge as much, I'll just get the "free" phone they usually have and throw it in a closet incase another phone breaks |
| 19:04.04 | nuclear_eclipse | yep |
| 19:04.12 | Qwell | Ritam: that would require a 2-year agreement on that line |
| 19:04.19 | Ritam | valid point |
| 19:04.28 | HauDyr | it always costs the same or more for phone+plan than phone |
| 19:04.51 | Ritam | how susceptable is the freerunner screen to scratching? i'm hoping it's fairly resistant |
| 19:05.47 | *** join/#openmoko LionKMP (n=lion@catv-5985b8e7.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 19:06.13 | zash | Ritam: i would guess its similar to the gta01 |
| 19:06.29 | HauDyr | i am buying a screen protector |
| 19:06.45 | nuclear_eclipse | speaking of which: any word on those InvisibleShield thingies? |
| 19:06.53 | zash | a screen protector wont make it worse at least :D |
| 19:06.57 | TAsn | HauDyr, sure thing, a screen protector is a must. |
| 19:07.06 | mjr | will buy an IS surely if they start doing them for us |
| 19:07.07 | LionKMP | is it? what is it? |
| 19:07.15 | TAsn | though i think i will just use a case. |
| 19:07.39 | LionKMP | TAsn: what is that screen protector thing? a link please? |
| 19:07.41 | ajbrun | will be |
| 19:08.19 | TAsn | LionKMP, i don't have a link |
| 19:08.33 | ajbrun | http://www.zagg.com/ |
| 19:08.34 | TAsn | i don't think there is one for openmoko |
| 19:08.39 | ajbrun | not yet |
| 19:08.45 | ajbrun | but they will i belive |
| 19:08.53 | Qwell | somebody said something about getting it larger than the actual screen, and opening it up and putting it on |
| 19:09.01 | nuclear_eclipse | Openmoko supposedly sent them a unit to make a protector for... |
| 19:09.06 | TAsn | though a generic 2.8" will probably do the trick. |
| 19:09.12 | ajbrun | i think people are putting them beneath the facia |
| 19:09.40 | nuclear_eclipse | well, InvisibleShield actually makes protectors that wrap around the entire unit |
| 19:09.48 | malik1972 | i did the same with my tosa (zaurus) and it worked well |
| 19:09.56 | ajbrun | won't they come off though? |
| 19:10.02 | ajbrun | from the edges with wear |
| 19:10.08 | ajbrun | and is it necessary? |
| 19:10.10 | mjr | nuclear_eclipse, somebody say so? |
| 19:10.11 | malik1972 | using a presentation foil, cutting the edges |
| 19:10.19 | ajbrun | isn't one over the screen enough? |
| 19:10.27 | ajbrun | tucked beneath the case facia |
| 19:10.34 | nuclear_eclipse | not if you want to keep the case nice and shiny too :P |
| 19:10.36 | TAsn | i want a moko, damn it. ;0 |
| 19:10.41 | mjr | ajbrun, for most purposes yes, those are for ... yeah, what nuclear_eclipse said |
| 19:10.44 | nuclear_eclipse | TAsn: +100 |
| 19:10.56 | ajbrun | 3 weeks and i get one tbh |
| 19:11.02 | TAsn | nuclear_eclipse, when will there be a new shipment to europe? |
| 19:11.08 | nuclear_eclipse | don't know |
| 19:11.12 | TAsn | ajbrun, how come 3 weeks? |
| 19:11.19 | ajbrun | i'm off to america 1st |
| 19:11.34 | TAsn | where will you order it to? |
| 19:11.39 | nuclear_eclipse | you could get one while you're here, unless you want the EU retail warranty |
| 19:11.48 | joss | zash: hmm, linux driver for their offered device at the bottom of the page seems open source , there is binary and also c code, http://www.televork.ee/index.php?menuID=208|254|403&productID=50&action=view |
| 19:13.25 | nuclear_eclipse | this is awesome to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQcv3ETEQdM |
| 19:14.00 | *** join/#openmoko cheng (n=cheng@xGagB214.WH1.tu-dresden.de) |
| 19:14.34 | ajbrun | how come an sd card comes in the package when i'd guess that most people would get a larger one anyone? |
| 19:14.47 | ajbrun | wouldn't it put costs down to not include it? |
| 19:14.47 | nuclear_eclipse | just to be nice? |
| 19:15.00 | TAsn | nuclear_eclipse, we don't need strength we need no scratches. |
| 19:15.00 | LionKMP | yes, or take my 512 from my existing phone |
| 19:15.00 | nuclear_eclipse | they're dirt cheap anyhow |
| 19:15.00 | *** part/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e181162242.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:15.01 | LionKMP | nice? it would be cheaper |
| 19:15.06 | zash | joss: external modem? |
| 19:15.13 | nuclear_eclipse | it'd maybe take $1 off the cost... |
| 19:15.21 | ajbrun | i guess... |
| 19:15.22 | nuclear_eclipse | maybe $5 at the most |
| 19:15.36 | nuclear_eclipse | but I can't imagine they pay *tha much* for a 512 chip |
| 19:15.47 | ajbrun | or use an 8gb one instead and add an extra $20? |
| 19:16.11 | nuclear_eclipse | ajbrun: yes, I'd rather they just included a bigger size |
| 19:16.23 | nuclear_eclipse | they can get an 8GB for much less than we can... |
| 19:16.29 | joss | zash: indeed, some usb ZTE one |
| 19:16.29 | ajbrun | indeed |
| 19:16.37 | ajbrun | i think 8gb is the biggest available right? |
| 19:16.45 | nuclear_eclipse | 16GB just hit the market iirc |
| 19:16.56 | ajbrun | oh - i might get one of those then |
| 19:17.02 | ajbrun | probably cheaper in america too |
| 19:17.30 | SpeedEvil | nuclear_eclipse: I think you're thinking of fullsixed SD |
| 19:17.39 | nuclear_eclipse | I'll probably pick up some really cheap 4GB chip, and then wait until prices drop more |
| 19:18.02 | nuclear_eclipse | SpeedEvil: perhaps, but I would think that a 512 would be pretty inexpensive these days |
| 19:18.04 | *** join/#openmoko AsiQ (n=a@bzq-79-177-227-163.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 19:18.25 | ScaredyCat | torpor: ping |
| 19:18.27 | SpeedEvil | nuclear_eclipse: I mean - 16G fullsized. I haven't seen |
| 19:18.37 | nuclear_eclipse | oh, ok |
| 19:18.43 | zash | joss: looks like it just talks AT-commands |
| 19:18.45 | SpeedEvil | 512 can be gotten for $2 in moderately small quantities. |
| 19:18.49 | nuclear_eclipse | yep |
| 19:18.49 | zash | joss: like most modems do |
| 19:18.53 | ajbrun | searches for 16gb micro sd prices |
| 19:19.11 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rcbf24451abf5 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: up illume to rev120 - had theme problem. 100% cpu usage with infinite timer. |
| 19:19.11 | nuclear_eclipse | $165 on newegg.com :P |
| 19:19.12 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r18429c5dd668 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: up to 0630 for date of efl - should fix eet issue? i can't reproduce here at |
| 19:19.12 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r07622d43694e 10/packages/efl1/edbus_cvs.bb: don't need efreet or ewl for edbus build. |
| 19:19.13 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rd09fec656815 10/packages/efl1/edbus_cvs.bb: [edbus Bump the PR after raster's change |
| 19:19.16 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r7f7e4bcf4a02 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-qtopia-x11.bb: [qtopia] Remove the callforwarding and phonesettings application from the image |
| 19:19.19 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * re28b16d191d8 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum of elfutils |
| 19:19.22 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rd1d0b0ed3bea 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add prelink checksum for the normal mirror |
| 19:19.25 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * rc833fe83efe1 10/packages/python/python-pyxdg_0.15.bb: [python] Add pyxdg to use fdo specs from python |
| 19:19.25 | nuclear_eclipse | wheeee |
| 19:19.28 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r4479c6b92cfd 10/conf/checksums.ini: [checksum] Add checksum for pyxdg, matches the debian source |
| 19:19.35 | zash | ajbrun: or, buy a gigantic external usb hdd :D |
| 19:19.39 | nuclear_eclipse | lol |
| 19:19.52 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r223087a9e537 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [splinter] Bump up the reversion of splinter to 438 |
| 19:19.52 | CIA-46 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r0e7fe720160a 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade Qtopia to get the callscreen/theme improvements |
| 19:19.53 | nuclear_eclipse | and power all that? the freerunner'd last about 10 minutes :P |
| 19:19.53 | henkie | dvdburner maybe? |
| 19:19.59 | joss | zash: yeah, and the code makes a device , to where to send them to |
| 19:20.13 | ajbrun | nah zash - i want it compact |
| 19:20.17 | ajbrun | ;) |
| 19:20.36 | ajbrun | i mean, the different between 4gb to 8gb isn't much |
| 19:20.44 | ajbrun | so why not get the best you can? |
| 19:20.49 | ajbrun | unless it's a LOT more |
| 19:21.00 | zash | joss: i have a similar device, huawei e220, but it uses gsm/3g |
| 19:21.04 | SpeedEvil | Becasue you can spend the difference on a 16G card in a week. |
| 19:21.18 | nuclear_eclipse | lol |
| 19:21.53 | zash | SpeedEvil: is there 16GB µSD-cards? |
| 19:22.01 | AsiQ | hey, does gprs work on the freerunner? sorry for the noob question... |
| 19:22.04 | SpeedEvil | zaq: I don't think so. |
| 19:22.06 | henkie | the wiki mentioned a qemu image, but i am unable to make heads or tails of it |
| 19:22.06 | mjr | AsiQ, yes |
| 19:22.09 | SpeedEvil | AsiQ: yes |
| 19:22.13 | AsiQ | tnx |
| 19:22.19 | SpeedEvil | AsiQ: but the software may not be there |
| 19:22.28 | TAsn | damn i think it's not healthy (what im going through). i need it :) im a gadget freak combined with an Open source enthusiast. :\ |
| 19:22.51 | ajbrun | µSD = micro sd? |
| 19:23.00 | AsiQ | SpeedEvil: what do you mean? there is no browser? |
| 19:23.01 | TAsn | SpeedEvil, so the answer to his Q is no. |
| 19:23.18 | henkie | me, i am mostly fed up with nokia |
| 19:23.36 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e181162242.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:23.41 | zash | ajbrun: µ = micro |
| 19:23.46 | TAsn | AsiQ, ma kore gever? ;0 |
| 19:23.48 | ajbrun | thought so |
| 19:23.50 | mjr | TAsn, well not really. It's yes at least if you put up the connection manually and don't care about muxing :] |
| 19:24.10 | AsiQ | TAsn: hakol tov.. ma itha? |
| 19:24.30 | TAsn | mjr, :) then the answer is not yes but neither it's no. |
| 19:24.37 | TAsn | AsiQ, fine. |
| 19:24.48 | AsiQ | mjr: is it hard? time consuming? |
| 19:24.51 | mjr | TAsn, it is yes. |
| 19:24.54 | zash | oh, standard sd-cards in 32GB sizes! |
| 19:24.54 | mjr | AsiQ, no. |
| 19:25.04 | AsiQ | TAsn: from where? |
| 19:25.11 | AsiQ | mjr: cool.... |
| 19:25.21 | TAsn | AsiQ, let's leave that a secret ;0 |
| 19:25.28 | ajbrun | zash - where? |
| 19:25.33 | AsiQ | TAsn: lol |
| 19:25.52 | zash | ajbrun: i checked a price comparison site |
| 19:25.55 | TAsn | AsiQ, :) |
| 19:25.55 | AsiQ | TAsn: sure thing.... do you have a freerunner? going to buy one? |
| 19:26.07 | ajbrun | pricerunneR? |
| 19:26.09 | TAsn | AsiQ, dying to buy one. |
| 19:26.15 | zash | ajbrun: "Panasonic SDHC Class 6 32GB" |
| 19:26.16 | TAsn | ajbrun, lol. |
| 19:26.21 | TAsn | AsiQ, you? |
| 19:26.24 | zash | ajbrun: no, but similar site |
| 19:26.36 | ajbrun | can you not ust send a link? |
| 19:26.41 | ajbrun | you're very cryptic |
| 19:26.49 | AsiQ | TAsn: i've already orderd one... but i'm waiting to see how much it will cost in the om shop |
| 19:26.51 | zash | ajbrun: you read swedish? |
| 19:26.53 | mjr | zash, cool. I think I'll make do with my 16 GB one for a while though :) |
| 19:26.56 | ajbrun | nope |
| 19:27.05 | TAsn | AsiQ, where did you order from? |
| 19:27.06 | SpeedEvil | google-translate to the rescue! |
| 19:27.14 | TAsn | in the om shop it will cost 400$ |
| 19:27.36 | TAsn | do the math concerning vat and shipment. |
| 19:27.39 | AsiQ | TAsn: polstar.de, but the french shop is accepting orders also |
| 19:27.59 | nuclear_eclipse | thinks it's pulster.de ? |
| 19:28.02 | AsiQ | TAsn: so the shop is cheeper.... |
| 19:28.10 | malik1972 | pulster.de |
| 19:28.11 | TAsn | AsiQ, i can't believe you :( what are you going to do about the customs? |
| 19:28.32 | TAsn | it's not authorized for use, not even mentioning import. |
| 19:28.35 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: If the natives run blue mud into their belly-button... |
| 19:29.09 | zash | ajbrun: http://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?p=307311 |
| 19:29.13 | TAsn | SpeedEvil, what? |
| 19:29.15 | zash | ajbrun: cant find it on pricerunner |
| 19:29.19 | ajbrun | ta |
| 19:29.26 | ajbrun | translates |
| 19:29.38 | AsiQ | TAsn: hammm... good question... i think i'm gonne ask the store to ship it as gift... if not... i will send it to a friend in denemark \ usa and ask them to send it to me... |
| 19:29.52 | zash | aprox 600 USD |
| 19:29.55 | TAsn | that's the best thing to do. |
| 19:30.04 | TAsn | asshole customs, that's why i didn't order. |
| 19:30.25 | TAsn | well, that and the huge vat and import tax and the third tax i can't remember it's name. |
| 19:30.27 | AsiQ | TAsn: i've orders a GP2X and a nokia770 without any problam.... |
| 19:30.39 | TAsn | AsiQ, i wish you well. |
| 19:30.47 | AsiQ | TAsn: tnx.... |
| 19:30.59 | joss | zash: yeah i think that driver does not let user to change esn number, good reference from wiki http://www.tiaonline.org/standards/resources/esn/index.cfm |
| 19:31.10 | TAsn | taxes sum up to something like 300$ |
| 19:31.32 | joss | zash: so depends what policy they have, perhaps they allow some other devices, perhaps not, than nothing to do |
| 19:31.46 | ajbrun | http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prisjakt.nu%2Fprodukt.php%3Fp%3D307311&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=sv&tl=en |
| 19:31.46 | AsiQ | TAsn: and btw... because its a phone... you can;t import it without a communication office check |
| 19:31.51 | ajbrun | site breaks when you translate... |
| 19:31.57 | TAsn | AsiQ, i know. |
| 19:32.04 | zash | ajbrun: to much ajax |
| 19:32.09 | ajbrun | yep |
| 19:32.18 | ajbrun | what's the swedish price? |
| 19:32.23 | TAsn | AsiQ, i read all the legal stuff. |
| 19:32.26 | ajbrun | i'll do a conversion instead |
| 19:32.32 | zash | ajbrun: 3610 SEK |
| 19:32.33 | AsiQ | TAsn: its open source... lying to the goverment is a must! |
| 19:32.41 | zash | ajbrun: ~600 USD |
| 19:32.53 | ajbrun | £300 then |
| 19:32.56 | TAsn | i can't get it why they do not accept fcc :\ |
| 19:32.57 | ajbrun | ouch :p |
| 19:33.05 | zash | ajbrun: indeed |
| 19:33.12 | ajbrun | think i'll stick with 8GB in that case |
| 19:33.17 | AsiQ | dunno... |
| 19:33.32 | zash | ajbrun: but, as with all tech, price will drop |
| 19:33.35 | zash | eventualy |
| 19:33.39 | TAsn | AsiQ, well are you registered in whatsup? |
| 19:33.46 | ajbrun | yeah, but for the likley ness of me filling it |
| 19:33.50 | ajbrun | i don't think it's worth it |
| 19:33.53 | AsiQ | no... whats that? |
| 19:34.24 | ajbrun | i only have 22GB of flac music, so compressed it's nothing really |
| 19:34.27 | TAsn | one of the biggest open source websites here. |
| 19:34.30 | zash | it would be nice in some future gta* to have a externaly acceible SD-card reader |
| 19:34.32 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 19:34.38 | nuclear_eclipse | zash: +1 |
| 19:34.44 | zash | :D |
| 19:34.48 | TAsn | zash, where is it now? behind the battery? |
| 19:34.48 | AsiQ | didn;t know that... i will check it out... |
| 19:34.53 | nuclear_eclipse | yep |
| 19:34.54 | zash | TAsn: yes |
| 19:35.01 | nuclear_eclipse | right on top of the SIM card IIRC? |
| 19:35.04 | TAsn | zash, sucks ;0 |
| 19:35.09 | *** join/#openmoko mange (n=mange@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 19:35.15 | TAsn | AsiQ, where did you hear about om from? |
| 19:35.22 | TAsn | digg? |
| 19:35.29 | AsiQ | na.... |
| 19:35.35 | TAsn | then? |
| 19:35.46 | mange | anyone have the link to the european distributors? |
| 19:35.51 | AsiQ | i heard about it even before the neo got releasd |
| 19:35.52 | TAsn | mange, |
| 19:35.54 | TAsn | openmoko.com |
| 19:35.56 | zash | mange: openmoko.com |
| 19:35.57 | nuclear_eclipse | mange: pulster.de |
| 19:35.58 | TAsn | AsiQ, where from? |
| 19:36.05 | mange | ah, thanks |
| 19:36.10 | TAsn | nuclear_eclipse, that's bad for his education! ;0 |
| 19:36.11 | ajbrun | mange - i know a UK one |
| 19:36.11 | AsiQ | don't remember where.... maybe hackaday or slashdot |
| 19:36.18 | nuclear_eclipse | sorry |
| 19:36.19 | zash | mange: http://openmoko.com/distributors-europe.html even |
| 19:36.19 | ajbrun | they do europe if you pay more shipping |
| 19:36.37 | TAsn | ajbrun, they ran out. |
| 19:36.38 | AsiQ | TAsn: u? |
| 19:36.44 | TAsn | AsiQ, i think digg. |
| 19:36.47 | ajbrun | indeed they did |
| 19:36.56 | TAsn | or slashdot, or something similar |
| 19:37.00 | AsiQ | lol |
| 19:37.09 | TAsn | not sure though, was a long time ago. |
| 19:37.25 | TAsn | more than an year now, can't recall if a lot more or just a bit. :) |
| 19:37.28 | *** join/#openmoko hirolau (n=harald@79.138.197.146.bredband.tre.se) |
| 19:37.29 | AsiQ | are u a coder? or just a user? |
| 19:37.39 | *** part/#openmoko hirolau (n=harald@79.138.197.146.bredband.tre.se) |
| 19:37.43 | TAsn | AsiQ, both. you? |
| 19:37.50 | AsiQ | send me a link to whats up.... |
| 19:37.50 | nuclear_eclipse | I wish I could be a coder, but I'm waiting on the US shop to open :P |
| 19:37.55 | AsiQ | also.... |
| 19:38.00 | TAsn | www.whatsup.co.il |
| 19:38.02 | *** join/#openmoko hirolau (n=harald@79.138.197.146.bredband.tre.se) |
| 19:38.07 | AsiQ | nuclear_eclipse: lol |
| 19:38.20 | TAsn | nuclear_eclipse, same here, im not an om coder yet ;0 |
| 19:38.31 | Pjj | I'm mostly a user, I have some basic C/Java experience but are willing the help the project, any idea in what way I could help the most? |
| 19:38.41 | AsiQ | TAsn: i know the site.... sorry i thought you are talking about a us site.... |
| 19:38.46 | nuclear_eclipse | I'm more interested in writing Python GUI apps once I get the phone |
| 19:39.03 | TAsn | AsiQ, oh :) then post a thread when you get it :) |
| 19:39.12 | AsiQ | TAsn: but i hate H sites.... |
| 19:39.15 | TAsn | Pjj, you can always do a lot. |
| 19:39.17 | AsiQ | TAsn: i will.... |
| 19:39.48 | TAsn | AsiQ, cool, thanks :) |
| 19:40.29 | AsiQ | TAsn: do you know anyone here using OpenMoko |
| 19:40.30 | AsiQ | ? |
| 19:40.32 | TAsn | Pjj, you can post about bugs, help design guis, tell if you see anything wrong that you how how to make right ;0 |
| 19:40.38 | TAsn | AsiQ, ofek.biz |
| 19:40.46 | TAsn | his name is doron. |
| 19:40.47 | AsiQ | cuz i think i was one of the first using a GP2X and a Nokia770... |
| 19:41.05 | AsiQ | cool |
| 19:42.32 | TAsn | yeah ;) |
| 19:42.43 | TAsn | he is nice, btw, he is working with om. |
| 19:42.48 | AsiQ | so he going to arrange a big buy? |
| 19:42.55 | AsiQ | on what? |
| 19:43.04 | TAsn | he wants do be a distributor here. |
| 19:43.15 | TAsn | from him i got all the legal info. |
| 19:43.48 | TAsn | AsiQ, he has problems since the gov won't accept fcc for some reason. |
| 19:44.16 | TAsn | he is very nice, enter is site. |
| 19:44.24 | TAsn | well, im off, i need to train. :) |
| 19:44.26 | Pjj | gonna do that yeah TAsn |
| 19:44.31 | AsiQ | TAsn: yeha he wont be able to get them ligally.... never,,, |
| 19:44.45 | TAsn | AsiQ, he is trying though. |
| 19:44.48 | AsiQ | TAsn: well see you |
| 19:44.56 | AsiQ | TAsn: Yeha |
| 19:45.01 | TAsn | Pjj, you do your best :) |
| 19:45.07 | Pjj | will do :) |
| 19:45.35 | TAsn | Pjj, btw, thanks for that. off training and watching kill bill 1 :) |
| 19:45.38 | TAsn | cya. |
| 19:45.59 | ajbrun | tis the best one |
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| 19:57.38 | ScaredyCat | sighs |
| 19:58.09 | nuclear_eclipse | hi ScaredyCat |
| 19:58.32 | SpeedEvil | throws ScaredyCat a squeaky mouse toy. |
| 19:58.32 | ScaredyCat | lo nuclear_eclipse |
| 19:58.42 | CM | ScaredyCat: Evening :) |
| 19:58.43 | ScaredyCat | disects it |
| 19:58.49 | ScaredyCat | lo CM |
| 19:59.25 | CM | Trying to build the fso now.. |
| 20:02.14 | torpor | yo |
| 20:02.27 | torpor | ScaredyCat: whatsup |
| 20:02.33 | ScaredyCat | lo |
| 20:03.04 | ScaredyCat | you msg'd earlier... |
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| 20:03.11 | torpor | um yeah |
| 20:03.20 | torpor | just running 25th june image from you |
| 20:03.30 | torpor | you are the man as far as working images is concerned. |
| 20:03.33 | torpor | all hail scaredy |
| 20:03.37 | torpor | everything else blows. |
| 20:03.46 | SpeedEvil | All sleet ScaredyCat! |
| 20:03.50 | torpor | but whats up with bt keyboard support? it was working. |
| 20:04.19 | mjr | if you have problems with ScaredyCat images, remember, there's more than one way to skin a cat |
| 20:04.37 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic (i=tronic@zi.fi) |
| 20:04.47 | ScaredyCat | hrrm... |
| 20:04.56 | ScaredyCat | have you tried the script ? |
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| 20:05.43 | torpor | noe just the gui |
| 20:05.48 | torpor | how do you set a passkey? |
| 20:05.56 | ScaredyCat | ahh ... welll... errm |
| 20:06.13 | ScaredyCat | that'll be in the bt config... |
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| 20:06.23 | torpor | no gui for that eh? |
| 20:06.30 | mjr | scratches ScaredyCat behind the ears |
| 20:07.04 | ScaredyCat | miews |
| 20:07.09 | torpor | is settingsgui progressing? |
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| 20:07.59 | CM | oh, first fso build done :) |
| 20:08.44 | ScaredyCat | stares at gta01 |
| 20:10.08 | torpor | to be honest i think an all-python approach is smart. |
| 20:10.14 | torpor | screw all this cross-compiling nonsense. |
| 20:10.21 | nuclear_eclipse | torpor: +1 |
| 20:10.24 | torpor | let us make a distro that is pure python for the user. |
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| 20:10.58 | torpor | a 100% source-on-board cell phone. now *that* would be sweet. but it would have to have gcc and co. |
| 20:11.15 | nuclear_eclipse | I like the idea of using Dbus for the backend storage/interop, and Python with Gtk/Qt/etc for the user apps |
| 20:11.16 | torpor | python, however, on a nicely made base framework of normal unix daemons .. |
| 20:11.49 | torpor | i don't think the gui is as important if you're running all-python stuff. |
| 20:12.07 | torpor | sure, use the layers if you want to include gtk in a common build, but what about an all-python system? |
| 20:12.21 | CVirus | What do you use for Python development ? |
| 20:12.27 | nuclear_eclipse | eg, a native Python-interpretingn CPU? |
| 20:12.36 | nuclear_eclipse | or do you just mean for the backend as well? |
| 20:12.47 | torpor | ScaredyCat: you are all-freerunner now, right? |
| 20:12.52 | torpor | gta01 don't get no 'mo love. |
| 20:13.04 | nuclear_eclipse | CVirus: vim all the way :P |
| 20:13.04 | ScaredyCat | I don;t have a freerunner |
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| 20:13.43 | CM | nuclear_eclipse: Don't you know it's "Turtles all the way down"? :D |
| 20:13.48 | nuclear_eclipse | lol |
| 20:13.52 | nuclear_eclipse | touche |
| 20:14.00 | CVirus | nuclear_eclipse: how about code completion and api doc viewing ? |
| 20:14.31 | HauDyr | i cant wait for OpenMoko-ncurses |
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| 20:14.31 | zash | HauDyr: YES! |
| 20:14.31 | nuclear_eclipse | CVirus: ctags for code completion, and api viewing is either handled by ctags or a firefox session :P |
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| 20:14.49 | torpor | nuclear_eclipse: i think a lean mean linux machine, i.e. init and daemons on dbus- happily talking to each other, with a python+framebuffer 'glom' to manage it all. fresh, clean, sweet. only things that go onboard are python. |
| 20:15.00 | CVirus | ctags ? |
| 20:15.20 | nuclear_eclipse | torpor: sounds nice but likely unobtainable :P |
| 20:15.21 | torpor | HauDyr: doable. |
| 20:15.41 | torpor | nuclear_eclipse: thats what they said about atomic warfare too. |
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| 20:16.00 | torpor | that way, the phone would be the devkit. |
| 20:16.03 | nuclear_eclipse | ctags are a "standardized" way to parse code for function/method signatures and store in a manner that can be read by vim, emacs, and more |
| 20:16.34 | torpor | right now, the cross-platform gate is strictly closed. a real 100% opensource device, let us say 'next generation' would necessibly be source-integrity complete; i.e. full source onboard. |
| 20:16.40 | nuclear_eclipse | so if you create a ctags database of your source tree, any "reasonable" editor can use that ctags file for code-completion |
| 20:17.38 | nuclear_eclipse | torpor: I meant "unobtainable" mainly in the scope of the Freerunner itself, but it would certainly be a nice long-term goal for many mobile Linux projects |
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| 20:28.25 | heatman | Hello. Does anyone know when the OpenMoko store will be up and running or when/if the Neo Freerunner will be availbale in Canada? |
| 20:28.39 | nuclear_eclipse | heatman: supposedly Monday the 7th |
| 20:28.42 | mjr | monday is the word on the street |
| 20:29.01 | heatman | nice! |
| 20:29.03 | igor321 | i heard it thru the grapewine : monday 7th |
| 20:29.18 | nuclear_eclipse | "grapewine"? ;) |
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| 20:30.18 | heatman | and they will be 399 USD? |
| 20:30.25 | nuclear_eclipse | yes |
| 20:30.37 | igor321 | grapevine, sorry :) |
| 20:30.54 | CM | Hmm.. Why is dbus not starting on my fso image.. |
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| 21:46.42 | wurp2|away | ScaredyCat: There you let a whole conversation about python being good pass right before your eyes, with no comment! |
| 21:46.46 | wurp2|away | WTF is up with you!? |
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| 21:51.04 | wurp2|away | balrog-kun: Is your FR mplayer integrated into one of the release images? |
| 21:52.00 | balrog-kun | wurp2|away: nope |
| 21:53.00 | wurp2|away | :-( |
| 21:53.30 | wurp2|away | I was curious, because someone put some comments from XorA about how to transcode to mpeg4 on the FR section of the Video_Player page |
| 21:53.43 | wurp2|away | Which is not very useful if it doesn't also tell how to use your player |
| 21:53.48 | wurp2|away | which it doesn't |
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| 21:54.40 | wurp2|away | Er, never mind, it switched to talking about the 01 and I missed it |
| 21:55.06 | wurp2|away | I still think someone ought to put directions on how to get your mplayer & run it on the FR |
| 21:55.38 | wurp2|away | (run it in a useful way, i.e. w/ mpeg4) |
| 21:55.43 | balrog-kun | yeah i may still put some link to the glamo mplayer in that wiki page, probably a good idea |
| 21:55.47 | wurp2|away | Did you get sound working & synchronized? |
| 21:55.57 | balrog-kun | nope, haven't tried at all |
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| 22:23.19 | wurp2|away | AsiQ: your internet connection sucks :-) |
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