| 00:00.05 | dcordes | I need something working to manually talk to the AT device |
| 00:00.33 | dcordes | I have cu in my angstrom image but it gives strange premission erros |
| 00:01.40 | balrog-kun | i just use screen now |
| 00:01.42 | SpeedEvil | you need the right perms on /dev/whatever |
| 00:02.02 | balrog-kun | i hate cu |
| 00:02.14 | dcordes | will try screen |
| 00:02.34 | dcordes | balrog-kun: what switches do you need to throw? |
| 00:02.48 | balrog-kun | mickey|away also wrote a special program for that iirc |
| 00:02.53 | balrog-kun | dcordes: none |
| 00:03.08 | dcordes | I know I'd need the python stuff |
| 00:03.32 | balrog-kun | i didn't know it was python |
| 00:03.34 | balrog-kun | eww p |
| 00:03.36 | balrog-kun | eww :p |
| 00:04.05 | dcordes | maybe I mean a different program |
| 00:04.14 | SpeedEvil | There really needs to be an alternative implementation other than python. |
| 00:04.22 | SpeedEvil | Especially for air travel. That could be bad. |
| 00:05.02 | dcordes | balrog-kun: so how do you send things when the screen openned? |
| 00:05.49 | balrog-kun | i think i typed screen /dev/ttySAC0 and then it was like minicom/picocom/whatevercom |
| 00:05.52 | dcordes | when I type things, I see the device receives data (there's a printk that reports the relevant irq) |
| 00:05.55 | dcordes | but get no replies |
| 00:06.13 | balrog-kun | is the modem on? |
| 00:06.17 | SpeedEvil | Are you sure the modem is on? |
| 00:06.22 | dcordes | yep |
| 00:06.36 | dcordes | when I only run cat /dev/smd0 I see the signal strength data |
| 00:07.15 | balrog-kun | maybe baud rate... i dunno |
| 00:07.16 | SpeedEvil | cat /dev/whateveratdeviceis |
| 00:07.19 | SpeedEvil | then ring the phone |
| 00:07.24 | SpeedEvil | see if it says 'RING' |
| 00:07.27 | SpeedEvil | or something |
| 00:07.28 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: I do |
| 00:07.32 | dcordes | ring blabla number |
| 00:07.45 | balrog-kun | in gnu screen? |
| 00:07.54 | balrog-kun | ah, no, with car, sorry |
| 00:07.55 | dcordes | not in screen, when I cat |
| 00:07.57 | balrog-kun | *cat |
| 00:08.02 | dcordes | but I can try with screen hold on |
| 00:08.28 | dcordes | just extracted the android rootfs and see what it does to initialize the modem |
| 00:09.59 | dcordes | ok don't see the messages in screen |
| 00:10.21 | dcordes | guess I really need to set a rate or so |
| 00:11.03 | dcordes | I can try cat & echo |
| 00:11.15 | dcordes | what AT command prints a lot of data? |
| 00:11.29 | dcordes | makes the modem reply a lot of data |
| 00:12.08 | SpeedEvil | AT+COPS=? |
| 00:12.25 | SpeedEvil | but not very much |
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| 00:16.12 | dcordes | I did cat /dev/smd0 & echo ´AT+COPS=?´ > /dev/smd0 |
| 00:16.34 | dcordes | modem doesn't reply anything directly. just prints the signal level after some time |
| 00:16.52 | SpeedEvil | Wonder if it's flow control |
| 00:16.57 | balrog-k1n | what hardware is that? |
| 00:18.12 | dcordes | msm7200 chipset |
| 00:18.35 | balrog-k1n | oh, CDMA? |
| 00:18.38 | dcordes | the serial devices are buffers on a shared memory region between modem side and system side of the chip |
| 00:18.46 | dcordes | no CDMA is msm7500 |
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| 00:19.51 | balrog-k1n | i see |
| 00:20.16 | dcordes | what's CREG? |
| 00:20.27 | balrog-k1n | well, chmod 0777 /dev/whatever and then cu -l /dev/whatever also worked for me sometimes |
| 00:20.31 | SpeedEvil | Wh am I registered to I think |
| 00:20.35 | SpeedEvil | what operator |
| 00:20.46 | balrog-k1n | unsolicited messages regarding registering |
| 00:20.55 | balrog-k1n | AT+CREG=0 turns them off iirc |
| 00:21.08 | dcordes | I'm browsing in the android rootfs trying to figure what it does to setup communication |
| 00:21.19 | dcordes | there's setupmodem.sh |
| 00:21.28 | balrog-k1n | you modified it's kernel already? |
| 00:21.37 | balrog-k1n | *its |
| 00:22.06 | balrog-k1n | you might just as well tell the kernel to dump all the serial traffic somewhere |
| 00:22.34 | dcordes | yea otherwise the smem communication wouldn't work. git.android.com is for MSM7500A |
| 00:24.06 | dcordes | I will try again with cu now, although I think chmod the device won't help |
| 00:24.08 | dcordes | already tried it |
| 00:24.56 | balrog-k1n | the problem with cu is it setuid's to nobody or some other user with similar privileges |
| 00:27.55 | dcordes | balrog-kun: chmod 0777 /dev/smd0 && cu -l /dev/smd0 |
| 00:28.20 | dcordes | cu: creat (/var/lock/TMP000000000c4): Permission denied |
| 00:28.33 | dcordes | cu: /dev/smd0: Line in use |
| 00:28.50 | dcordes | when I retry, each time the TMP* changes |
| 00:29.01 | balrog-k1n | there might have been a switch to not do locking.. |
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| 00:32.44 | dcordes | balrog-k1n: we had the same conversation and I ended up not finding the switch for not creating lockfiles |
| 00:34.21 | balrog-k1n | ok.. i guess strace android to the rescue |
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| 00:34.46 | SpeedEvil | chown root.root /usr/bin/cu :) |
| 00:34.56 | balrog-k1n | it must be doing something to the modem to make it talk right? |
| 00:37.16 | dcordes | balrog-k1n: yea that's why I've been looking in the extracted rootfs |
| 00:37.39 | dcordes | but I can't find the relevant stuff |
| 00:37.47 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: didn't change situation |
| 00:38.10 | dcordes | http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/initrd-android that's what I'm making calls with |
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| 00:39.33 | dcordes | when I last tried manually talking to the modem, the driver was not yet working |
| 00:39.56 | dcordes | so actually I never had it working from the console image so android must do something speccial to talk |
| 00:40.54 | pjj | with default freerunner software can you configure wifi by a gui? |
| 00:45.17 | bricode | pjj: Doesn't appear to be the case at the moment. |
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| 00:54.33 | dcordes | balrog-k1n: I grepped the rootfs for the device node. I can only see two textfiles being written. one contains AT+HTC_DUN=0 the other one ATDT#777. Everything else is paramters being passed to binary |
| 00:58.37 | bricode | dcordes: #777 is what they use for the Bell CDMA data network here in Canada. |
| 00:59.30 | balrog-k1n | dcordes: i guess it doesn't have to be something written to that port, it can be a gpio flipped through a /sys node like on the neo or something else |
| 00:59.38 | dcordes | bricode: the rootfs where those commands are from is actually for a cdma device. still I can make calls |
| 01:00.21 | dcordes | bricode: the device node receives the commands that's for sure. I see the irq when I write |
| 01:00.42 | balrog-k1n | dcordes: is it possible that it's just an issue with screen and picocom/minicom would work? |
| 01:00.50 | dcordes | might be |
| 01:01.04 | dcordes | I had a rootfs with minicom before but can't recall where I got minicon |
| 01:01.29 | dcordes | that cat&echo thing is vague |
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| 01:04.58 | dcordes | balrog-k1n: is there something present in OE other than cu? |
| 01:06.01 | balrog-k1n | dcordes: i don't know |
| 01:06.06 | balrog-k1n | dcordes: do you have setserial? |
| 01:06.26 | dcordes | not in this image, no |
| 01:09.03 | dcordes | hm picocom doesn't compile for arm |
| 01:10.22 | dcordes | I wonder why cu stopped working. I had a different angstrom rootfs where it worked well |
| 01:15.40 | balrog-k1n | dcordes: it builds for me |
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| 01:18.14 | dcordes | balrog-k1n: can you put it somewhere so I can get it? |
| 01:18.42 | balrog-k1n | dcordes: it's dynamically linked |
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| 01:32.12 | Dave | dcordes, what are you talking about? |
| 01:32.54 | wurp2 | Does anyone have experience with the fso/Milestone 1 image? |
| 01:32.56 | wurp2 | blist |
| 01:33.05 | wurp2 | er, wrong window :-) |
| 01:34.37 | dcordes | Dave: about a program to communicate with character device |
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| 01:35.54 | wurp2 | abraxa__: Do you work on the fso? |
| 01:37.07 | dcordes | I tried in on machine htckaiser but X doesn't start |
| 01:39.32 | dcordes | balrog-k1n: can you give me your picocom binary? |
| 01:39.52 | dcordes | for </= arm6 |
| 01:40.54 | balrog-k1n | dcordes: http://folks.o-hand.com/andrew/picocom |
| 01:41.04 | balrog-k1n | it's arm5 i think |
| 01:41.12 | balrog-k1n | lemme try to make a static one |
| 01:42.45 | dcordes | thanks a lot |
| 01:43.02 | balrog-k1n | dcordes: http://folks.o-hand.com/andrew/picocom-static |
| 01:43.25 | dcordes | where's the difference between the two? |
| 01:44.09 | balrog-k1n | 22KB vs 336KB (includes libc and stuff) |
| 01:44.53 | balrog-k1n | they are untested, i only know they compiled with 2 warning from gcc |
| 01:45.00 | balrog-k1n | warnings |
| 01:45.09 | dcordes | I'll try the static one first then |
| 01:45.16 | dcordes | or just put them both in the rootfs |
| 01:45.32 | Dave | jvm please. |
| 01:47.25 | dcordes | -_- |
| 01:49.46 | Dave | Pretty much! |
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| 02:31.32 | Dave | ~_~ |
| 02:31.32 | apt | STOP DOING THAT! |
| 02:33.17 | dcordes | Dave: want java? |
| 02:33.40 | Dave | Yes please. |
| 02:34.04 | Dave | Though I'd never say that anywhere else, without hauling a hefty guilty conscience around afterward :p |
| 02:35.14 | dcordes | you mean because here, everybody knows java is the devil? |
| 02:36.12 | Dave | No, because I've never touched the stuff, and never will, but I have to get a jvm working on the gta02 :P |
| 02:36.19 | Dave | oh and yeah, blasphemy, yadda yadda |
| 02:36.50 | Dave | Last I checked, cacao was out of date... or something else suspicious. |
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| 03:36.43 | wurp2 | ~_~ |
| 03:36.44 | apt | STOP DOING THAT! |
| 03:36.59 | wurp2 | ~fist |
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| 03:42.54 | Dave | moo |
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| 03:43.28 | zash | i agree |
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| 03:51.20 | Railer | hey |
| 03:52.24 | Railer | where are the Canadian bitaches! |
| 03:52.45 | doc|home | good thing I'm Irish, isn't it? :D |
| 03:52.52 | doc|home | Railer: any idea on delivery costs? |
| 03:52.57 | Railer | yes |
| 03:52.57 | doc|home | and thanks for that |
| 03:52.59 | doc|home | excellent |
| 03:53.48 | Railer | but the info is for edmonton |
| 03:53.59 | Railer | but minor |
| 03:54.59 | Railer | ok |
| 03:55.08 | doc|home | that's ok, shouldn't make a huge difference |
| 03:55.18 | Railer | and I'll put it up on the wiki later tonight as well |
| 03:55.34 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 03:56.05 | Railer | ok good news NO CUSTOMS! cellphone are custom free where ever they come from |
| 03:56.30 | doc|home | yeah, I saw that earlier :) |
| 03:56.32 | Railer | I should say no duties, you still need to pay a broker |
| 03:56.40 | doc|home | that's $8 |
| 03:56.43 | doc|home | afaik |
| 03:56.52 | Railer | ? |
| 03:56.55 | Railer | what? |
| 03:57.08 | doc|home | ups will do brokerage and afaik they charge $8 for the "privilege" |
| 03:57.26 | doc|home | or at least that's fedex's rate I think |
| 03:58.21 | Railer | no |
| 03:58.38 | Railer | 8 buck for brokering? right |
| 03:59.46 | Railer | UPS shipping insurance $4000 US, 3KG, Fremont to Edmonton standard $55.69 |
| 04:00.34 | Railer | Broker/COD charge /Bonding Fee ANOTHER 81.55 |
| 04:01.33 | doc|home | what? that's not right |
| 04:01.38 | doc|home | wait, COD demand? |
| 04:01.43 | doc|home | you're not paying COD |
| 04:01.59 | Railer | thats what the UPS guy told me |
| 04:02.11 | doc|home | what exactly is that for? |
| 04:02.31 | Railer | but I'm going to call FedEx monday, and I can do my own brokering |
| 04:03.12 | doc|home | Railer: how do you do that? |
| 04:03.29 | *** join/#openmoko _ferric (n=adityach@user-12ld81j.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 04:04.52 | Railer | well I've done it with FEdEX they have sort of duty free zones at airports, the shipment comes in you go to pick it up, fill out the paperwork, pay the gst and they give you the goods |
| 04:06.26 | Railer | you need to know invoice, which is on the box or faxed to you, place on manufacture, and type of thing, revenue canada number if you have one |
| 04:06.44 | doc|home | and if you don't? |
| 04:07.01 | Railer | don't what? |
| 04:08.48 | Railer | if fedex is open in tommorow I'll get the how to on how to broker it yourself |
| 04:10.03 | Railer | little rusty havn't done it in a while but it's not too hard |
| 04:11.08 | Railer | but trust me brokering is like $50 a shot to use a broker min |
| 04:11.19 | doc|home | Railer: if you don't have a revenue canada number? |
| 04:11.37 | Railer | I think you can use SIN |
| 04:12.04 | doc|home | great, so the fuckers think I'm making money off this :/ |
| 04:17.59 | Dave | What's up, Doc? |
| 04:18.05 | Railer | how are you going to make money? |
| 04:18.13 | Dave | Railer: HUMILIATION! |
| 04:18.32 | *** join/#openmoko anishmangal2002 (n=anish@59.178.35.122) |
| 04:18.40 | Railer | well then pay a broker |
| 04:20.44 | Railer | dave ? |
| 04:21.15 | Railer | you just need id for the brokerage |
| 04:21.50 | doc|home | Railer: I'm not, but they might think I will and I don't need that crap :) |
| 04:22.12 | Railer | here doc: http://www.ups.com/content/ca/en/shipping/cost/zones/customs_clearance.html |
| 04:23.28 | doc|home | Railer: fuckers |
| 04:23.30 | Railer | $8 per person for broker, UPS will do it all |
| 04:23.32 | doc|home | ok, going to do it myself |
| 04:23.41 | doc|home | Railer: let me know how you do that |
| 04:23.49 | Railer | I'll post the whole thing later |
| 04:24.02 | Railer | I just cant rememebr the from |
| 04:24.05 | Railer | form |
| 04:24.05 | doc|home | will contact someone who might know more |
| 04:24.15 | Railer | ya |
| 04:25.34 | Railer | you can get everything setup before hand and fax everything to UPS of fedex when they call |
| 04:26.18 | Railer | of = or |
| 04:26.49 | doc|home | oh, cool |
| 04:26.56 | doc|home | let me know what you find |
| 04:27.45 | Railer | I've done it before lots, but not in the last few years |
| 04:28.10 | doc|home | Railer: are we going to have bond fees too? |
| 04:28.30 | Railer | if you broker your self? |
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| 04:28.48 | Infinyte | Arrr.. |
| 04:28.58 | Infinyte | There don't seem to be any good GSM providers around here. :< |
| 04:29.36 | Railer | if you broker and pay yourself no, but if you do through UPs then yes |
| 04:31.14 | Railer | what the hell did dave mean " Railer: HUMILIATION!" |
| 04:31.15 | Railer | ? |
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| 04:32.17 | Railer | dave, dave dave dave de=ave dave dave |
| 04:32.20 | Railer | dave, dave dave dave de=ave dave dave |
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| 04:42.22 | doc|home | Railer: that sucks, ok, doing this myself |
| 04:42.59 | Railer | fedex is fast and better for do it your self |
| 04:43.18 | Railer | also more expensive, but it's air |
| 04:47.48 | doc|home | Railer: ok, I've emailed this person I know who I think might have done it in the past, will let you know |
| 04:47.56 | doc|home | Railer: thanks again |
| 04:48.02 | Railer | ok |
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| 04:53.47 | Dave | Railer: WHAT? |
| 04:56.51 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r9c61c4f4a237 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/modems/ (5 files in 2 dirs): ophoned: establish ppp context with modem specific ppp options, correctly catch subprocess exit |
| 05:02.10 | Railer | what the hell did " Railer: HUMILIATION!" mean? |
| 05:04.49 | Dave | It was stated a la Q3A. |
| 05:05.21 | Railer | ah |
| 05:05.27 | Dave | :] |
| 05:05.28 | Railer | I dont play anymore |
| 05:05.33 | Dave | Hah! |
| 05:05.37 | Dave | Who does? :p |
| 05:05.40 | donomo | QUAD DAMAGE |
| 05:05.42 | Dave | (Honestly) |
| 05:05.53 | Dave | donomo, my GTA02 now says that upon startup :) |
| 05:06.02 | Dave | well, one of them, anyway, hehe |
| 05:06.12 | donomo | haha. openarena.ws FTW |
| 05:06.17 | Railer | nice |
| 05:06.21 | Dave | ;D |
| 05:06.32 | Dave | ooh nice |
| 05:07.25 | Railer | I got old - high blood pressure - passed out during intense matches |
| 05:07.58 | Dave | :o |
| 05:08.06 | Dave | Aww |
| 05:08.14 | Railer | kind of funny |
| 05:08.17 | Dave | It is certainly not a game for the weak. |
| 05:08.32 | Railer | play wii now |
| 05:08.34 | Dave | or weak-hearted I should say |
| 05:08.45 | Dave | heh |
| 05:08.51 | Dave | Yeah, that's probably more up your alley? :p |
| 05:09.33 | Dave | for six and sixty year olds |
| 05:09.45 | Railer | want to write some code for freerunner now, |
| 05:10.12 | Railer | is it going to have a JRE? |
| 05:11.56 | Dave | I'm trying to setup a jvm now :] |
| 05:13.02 | Railer | no what? |
| 05:13.11 | Railer | on what |
| 05:13.13 | Railer | ? |
| 05:13.42 | Railer | I'm teaching Java enterprise this term :P |
| 05:14.57 | zash | Enterprise Grade Applications!!! |
| 05:15.02 | Dave | Oh :P |
| 05:15.06 | zash | aka ugly hacks |
| 05:15.14 | Dave | haha |
| 05:18.18 | zash | its sad |
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| 05:19.02 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 05:19.22 | zash | is to mutch perfectionist for Enterprise Grade Application Development (!!!1) |
| 05:20.43 | Dave | EGAD! |
| 05:22.37 | Sonicadvance1 | Military grade? |
| 05:23.23 | Railer | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:23.29 | Railer | JSF |
| 05:24.52 | Railer | so if I guy just wants to make games for the FR, is there a simple SDK that runs on windows a guy can use or no chance |
| 05:26.12 | mickeyl | try asking for a vmware image on the -devel list, there should be someone who did that |
| 05:26.26 | Dave | Yes |
| 05:26.36 | Dave | the other emulations are quite slow. |
| 05:26.40 | Dave | in comparison |
| 05:26.59 | Railer | there's a vmware? sweet |
| 05:27.15 | Railer | i'll go look |
| 05:29.44 | Railer | do you have a link to the image, I couldn't find it |
| 05:30.01 | Dave | oh good, I'll sic you on the cacao people, Railer :) |
| 05:33.21 | Railer | no more eclipse! even on cacao! |
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| 05:34.33 | Dave | :D |
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| 05:34.48 | Railer | I want a vmware FR appliance! |
| 05:34.51 | Dave | now give me a functional jvm! :] |
| 05:36.03 | Railer | appliance! I asked first |
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| 05:37.37 | Dave | :p |
| 05:37.42 | wurp2 | Dave: Does jalima not work? |
| 05:38.13 | wurp2 | s/ima/imo/ |
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| 05:52.41 | Dave | wurp, no, it did not. |
| 05:56.46 | Dave | Well, one issue is that repo version of cacao appears to still be old and crusty. |
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| 06:14.21 | Zoup | hi :) i have few question on this phones |
| 06:14.34 | Zoup | is this possible to rebuild the kernel ? |
| 06:14.43 | Zoup | what is Distributions used on phones ? |
| 06:19.01 | Zoup | Is this possible to use this phones with any provider ? are these 'locked' ? |
| 06:19.20 | josch | locked? |
| 06:19.21 | josch | yeah |
| 06:19.29 | josch | it even has some palladium chip |
| 06:19.45 | josch | did i tell you about the proprietary firmware images? |
| 06:19.57 | Zoup | josch: hehe , i mean in case to make it working on any provider , do you need any unlocking mechanism ? |
| 06:20.06 | josch | this phone |
| 06:20.07 | josch | is |
| 06:20.08 | josch | OPEN |
| 06:20.17 | Zoup | josch: ok pal :) got it :) |
| 06:20.26 | josch | there are NO restrictions on your freedom how you use it |
| 06:20.28 | Zoup | josch: can you please answer my other questions or refer some docs ? |
| 06:20.34 | Zoup | josch: OK! :) |
| 06:20.36 | josch | only the limitations of the hardware in speed etc. |
| 06:20.44 | josch | it is not locked |
| 06:20.50 | josch | distribution is openmoko |
| 06:21.01 | Zoup | josch: DEB or PRM packages ? |
| 06:21.09 | josch | you can rebuild evry line of code |
| 06:21.15 | josch | opkg |
| 06:21.26 | *** part/#openmoko ohin (n=opera@zli1-v-1-166.static.adsl.vol.cz) |
| 06:21.32 | josch | this is like dpkg only for embedded devices |
| 06:21.55 | Zoup | josch: aaha , got it , so standard debian packages ( arm arch ) will work on this or not ? |
| 06:22.25 | josch | well... if you use debian on your phone, of course you can use dpkgs |
| 06:23.06 | Zoup | josch: stupid question > can is entirely remove this openmoko distro and install my own ? |
| 06:23.16 | josch | this phone |
| 06:23.17 | josch | is |
| 06:23.25 | josch | well... i think you got that ^^ |
| 06:23.39 | josch | even now there are several distros out there |
| 06:23.39 | Zoup | josch: So this is an standard platform |
| 06:23.43 | Zoup | GREAT! |
| 06:23.48 | Zoup | this is JUST GREAT! |
| 06:24.00 | josch | there are the many versions of the openmoko OS |
| 06:24.04 | josch | like 2007.1 |
| 06:24.06 | josch | 2007.2 |
| 06:24.07 | josch | ASU |
| 06:24.15 | josch | and now the openmoko framework |
| 06:24.19 | kdean06 | http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ |
| 06:24.22 | josch | then there are unofficial firmwares |
| 06:24.35 | josch | like the underground zad framework |
| 06:24.43 | josch | or debian armel |
| 06:24.47 | Zoup | very interesting , any idea where store will be open ? |
| 06:24.54 | josch | i even buld gentoo for it |
| 06:24.56 | Zoup | *when |
| 06:25.03 | josch | in a week or so |
| 06:25.33 | josch | Zoup, where are you from? |
| 06:25.46 | Zoup | josch: im from iran :) |
| 06:25.52 | josch | oh! |
| 06:26.10 | josch | i do not know if there are any third party resellers for you ^^ |
| 06:26.35 | Zoup | josch: well , situation sucks here |
| 06:26.59 | josch | you mean the political situation? |
| 06:27.52 | Zoup | josch: all aspects of that :) |
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| 06:28.15 | Zoup | josch: are you from openmoko company ? is these possibe to be reseller in iran ? |
| 06:29.17 | josch | no, i'm not affiliated with openmoko inc. - just a random hacker :P |
| 06:31.37 | Zoup | josch: got it! thanks , ill ask question when i bought this thing :) |
| 06:31.58 | josch | great |
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| 07:36.36 | goodwill|yawn | xephyr time |
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| 07:53.08 | bagpuss_thecat | oooh, Nokia to buy the rest of Symbian, and then open source it |
| 07:55.32 | cb22[eee] | thats cool, but what exactly does it mean for me? |
| 07:55.44 | zash | still finds it weird that they bought Trolltech |
| 07:55.57 | cb22[eee] | like, will i be able to cd /usr/src/symbian; make; make DESTDIR=/phone install |
| 07:56.49 | cb22[eee] | needs a freerunner |
| 07:57.30 | ljp | it only means something if you have open hardware to put it on |
| 08:02.59 | faern | I have downloaded the makefile and maked qemu. but it only downloads the qtopia image. how can I get om? |
| 08:03.38 | zash | you mean the old gtk-based om |
| 08:03.51 | faern | old? is it replaced :/ |
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| 08:04.03 | faern | the qtopia image I got was ugly and not working at all |
| 08:04.03 | malik1972 | faern: no problem, look at the manuell installation of qemu |
| 08:04.26 | zash | faern: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ |
| 08:04.47 | faern | *read* |
| 08:05.21 | malik1972 | faern: and flash the images you want |
| 08:05.44 | faern | malik1972: ok. thanks |
| 08:06.31 | malik1972 | faern: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Manual_setup |
| 08:07.30 | faern | So which stack is the freerunner shipped with? |
| 08:07.34 | malik1972 | faern: choose gta01 images + corresponding kernel, a lot of images out there, asu, fso, underground, scaredy cats, etc |
| 08:08.18 | malik1972 | faern: "Right now, Openmokoâs priority is getting the ASU to a point where it is stable and satisfies the every-day use with the FreeRunner product." |
| 08:09.23 | zash | faern: freerunner is shipped with a gtk-image |
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| 08:09.55 | faern | nice. cause that one looked sweet and I havent tr |
| 08:10.03 | faern | ...tried the other ones yet |
| 08:14.17 | goodwill|blink | malik1972: so last time I tried to make an image of my own that took about 6 hours, because it compiled every package in the devel tree (using mokomakefile). Any recent premade images out there, besides the default bare one? |
| 08:15.16 | malik1972 | goodwill|blink: have a look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories |
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| 08:17.54 | goodwill | malik1972: oooh, nice...thank you |
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| 09:00.04 | goodwill | hmmm, can not burn the latest asu onto the qemu |
| 09:00.18 | goodwill | qemu: fatal: Trying to execute code outside RAM or ROM at 0x00000008 |
| 09:04.19 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r923b529f883f 10/odeviced/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Start work on input plugin |
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| 09:14.12 | Blastur | which resellers are currently shipping the freerunner within europe? |
| 09:14.43 | zlfita | 'm trying to register an order with pulster |
| 09:15.24 | zash | Blastur: they are listed on openmoko.com -> store somewhere |
| 09:15.24 | zlfita | also french and british resellers shipped their first batch but i forgot their names |
| 09:15.39 | Blastur | thanks |
| 09:15.48 | zash | http://openmoko.com/distributors-europe.html |
| 09:15.49 | zash | there |
| 09:17.53 | josch | Blastur, also consider TRIsoft - they partnered with golden delicious compuers |
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| 09:19.09 | Zoup | arrr ... is this possible to charge freerunner using usb ? |
| 09:19.26 | zash | err ... yes |
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| 09:21.17 | zash | you charge it trough the usb port |
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| 09:22.02 | Zoup | Thanks! :) what do these guys mean that its host usb ? it means that it can charge my camera ( for example! ) |
| 09:22.17 | zash | you can connect stuff to it |
| 09:22.35 | zash | probably not very wise to charge stuff from it thou |
| 09:23.18 | Zoup | zash: battery sacrifice , will that work with usb flash disks ? |
| 09:23.36 | zash | Zoup: should do |
| 09:23.51 | Zoup | zash: thanks! |
| 09:24.29 | zash | you will need a converter cable |
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| 09:24.44 | zash | miniUSB - USB A female |
| 09:24.53 | Zoup | zash: aaha ... |
| 09:26.45 | zash | the wiki says freerunner can supply 500mA, so any usb-thing should work |
| 09:27.04 | zash | but of course, the battery will suffer |
| 09:27.57 | zash | or you can build a 3-way cable to power both the neo and usb-device |
| 09:30.03 | Zoup | zash: wont that be dangerous ? |
| 09:30.13 | Zoup | zash: short circut , etc ? :)) |
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| 09:52.59 | Blastur | oh.. blizzard is doing diablo 3 |
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| 09:54.53 | faern | will they port it to the neo? :D |
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| 10:05.35 | willem | Hi, I just used the makefile to create a qemu image and the image runs, but none of the buttons to anythin |
| 10:05.38 | willem | +g |
| 10:10.14 | Sup3rkiddo | hi anyone know the format in which the time in wakelarm present in /sys/class/rtc/rtcx/wakealarm is? |
| 10:11.49 | Sup3rkiddo | never mind, got it |
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| 10:24.44 | willem | I have found how to get to some programs, however with notes, you I can only use that predictive keyboard, which doesn't allow me to use backspace or delete or any non alpha characters... |
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| 10:25.58 | giantbicycle | é«éæä¸ç´ä¸é¨å |
| 10:29.12 | Blastur | faern: it will run on freerunner out of the box, of course |
| 10:30.07 | faern | Blastur: nice. hope the gprs link kan handle it in multiplayer |
| 10:30.21 | faern | s/kan/can |
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| 10:40.31 | TAsn | is there a working browser available? |
| 10:41.50 | Zoup | TAsn: is there an norworking one ? |
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| 10:43.03 | TAsn | im not familiar with the software exists yet. Im just wondering whether the is a one that works, without knowing whether there is one at alll. |
| 10:43.07 | TAsn | all* |
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| 11:33.52 | Sup3rkiddo | anyone know if RTC_WKALM_RD ioctl call is possible? |
| 11:34.23 | Sup3rkiddo | in OM kernel that is |
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| 12:09.13 | noon | hello |
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| 12:10.31 | noon | is it posible to read/write multipart sms with the current libgsmd implementation? |
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| 12:12.00 | balrog-k1n | noon: yes... as multiple messages |
| 12:13.34 | noon | balrog-k1n: okey. my questions was not precise enough... |
| 12:13.44 | Tanuva | hmm... I'm trying to build the sample app from the Toolchain wiki page, but /usr/local/openmoko/arm/setup-env seems to fail to set any env variables when its being executed... |
| 12:13.53 | Tanuva | may I fix this somehow? |
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| 12:14.22 | noon | does the libgsmd provide enough information that i can merge multipart sms? |
| 12:14.31 | LionKMP | . setup-env ? |
| 12:14.58 | LionKMP | "." is the "source in" comand. |
| 12:15.17 | Tanuva | aaah.. so this dot really IS important |
| 12:15.37 | LionKMP | hehe, yes, otherwise it starts a new bash, sets vars and quits (losing vars) |
| 12:15.38 | Tanuva | no wonder it wont work :) |
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| 12:17.11 | balrog-k1n | noon: probably nope |
| 12:17.56 | Tanuva | damn. it still cant find libmokoui2, although I got it from the ubuntu repos and installed it.. (debian sid/sidux here) |
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| 12:18.30 | noon | balrog-k1n: thx. |
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| 12:30.31 | Tanuva | arrr... where does pkg-config expect libmokoui2 to be? I have the libs in /usr/lib and also in /usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/lib... |
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| 12:33.20 | LionKMP | Tanuva: did you run the commands as on : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain ? |
| 12:33.50 | Tanuva | yes |
| 12:33.51 | LionKMP | I don't really know Moko, but this sample app will build arm binary, so /usr/lib does't help regarding libs. |
| 12:34.27 | Tanuva | libmokoui2 installs itself there, I dont really know why I should need it because I would want to use Qt.. |
| 12:34.39 | Tanuva | maybe just remove it from the dependencies? |
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| 12:40.55 | LionKMP | hm, it does not build for me either. I think it worked when I first tried. :-p |
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| 13:43.48 | opendeep | When creating a package , I get this error "No package 'libmokoui2' found" |
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| 14:02.13 | giantbicycle | c;ear |
| 14:05.56 | SpeedEvil | shocks #openmoko with 450J. |
| 14:08.50 | opendeep | giantbicycle: I had a packaging error, the same error came to somebody , he fixed that by |
| 14:09.05 | opendeep | using the script /usr/local/openmoko/arm/environment-setup |
| 14:10.54 | opendeep | How we use that script ? |
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| 14:10.58 | Dave | How are you gentlemen? |
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| 14:13.10 | LionKMP | hi, is the 10pack discount pack coming from existing retailers or the soon-coming online shop only? We have 30 guys signed up here :) |
| 14:14.09 | swc|666 | LionKMP: their sold out already :/ |
| 14:14.17 | swc|666 | j/k |
| 14:14.35 | LionKMP | :-p |
| 14:15.15 | abraxa_ | LionKMP: That's an Openmoko, Inc. discount, I'm not aware of any retailer offering it |
| 14:15.17 | swc|666 | my group is an odd bunch of paranoid freaks that trusts noone |
| 14:15.48 | LionKMP | swc|666: hehe, we didn't discuss details yet, so might be same here :) |
| 14:16.09 | swc|666 | LionKMP: yep...especially for 30 :o |
| 14:16.54 | LionKMP | abraxa_: hm.. ok, I see. Any ideas in which country EU distribution will be based? (We could go there to pick up if near.) |
| 14:17.58 | abraxa_ | LionKMP: There's no central hub, the distributors get theirs from OM |
| 14:18.23 | abraxa_ | LionKMP: Maybe you can pick them up from the distributors - an (incomplete) list is on openmoko.com |
| 14:18.59 | LionKMP | abraxa_: you said the 10packs are NOT coming from distributors. I am asking about 10packs. (sorry if I misunderstand something) |
| 14:21.15 | abraxa_ | LionKMP: Openmoko, Inc. may deliver to Europe by mail, however they won't have a distribution center there |
| 14:21.35 | abraxa_ | So picking up a 10 pack will cost you a plane ticket to Asia, if even possible :) |
| 14:21.39 | LionKMP | :D |
| 14:21.56 | LionKMP | well, ok. I saw Prague mentioned somewhere earlier. |
| 14:22.07 | abraxa_ | So best bet is to ask one of the distributors if they offer the 10 pack discount as well |
| 14:22.22 | LionKMP | ok, thanks, did already, but it's saturday. |
| 14:22.34 | Dave | hah! |
| 14:24.47 | LionKMP | if we can order from within the EU we don't need to pay toll. |
| 14:25.00 | mjr | put in a group order at pulster (who've btw apparently sold out their first batch already); they didn't offer further discount but did throw in shipping for me |
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| 14:25.33 | LionKMP | mjr: within Germany? |
| 14:25.37 | mjr | yes |
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| 14:26.11 | LionKMP | did you order the headset and pouche separately? (on ML some wrote they don't include it) |
| 14:26.31 | mjr | just whatever's in the base package |
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| 14:27.49 | LionKMP | ok, I'll see what they can offer to .hu if anything :) |
| 14:28.17 | mjr | as said, with them you're probably going to have to wait for their second shipment though |
| 14:29.10 | LionKMP | ah, yes, thank you. Hehe, I wonder how much they sold. |
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| 14:48.12 | Tanuva | I've just downloaded the actual prebuilt images (make download-images && make run-qemu) and the "neo"/qemu wont seem to do anything. the four buttons on the "welcome screen" flash once I click them, but nothing happens. anything to do about it except waiting for the next build? |
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| 14:52.35 | balrog-k1n | hmmm may be a touchscreen issue |
| 14:52.44 | balrog-k1n | Tanuva: try older images |
| 14:53.26 | malik1972 | tanuva: start from the beginning |
| 14:53.55 | malik1972 | tanuva: i had the same issue |
| 14:54.01 | Tanuva | Snapshot-20080625-om-gta01 is what I have... |
| 14:54.06 | Tanuva | okay, gonna try that |
| 14:54.37 | malik1972 | tanuva: or try fso |
| 14:54.52 | LionKMP | hehe, I just experienced the same problem |
| 14:54.56 | Tanuva | how/where do I fetch that? |
| 14:55.01 | chillywilly | hello moko |
| 14:55.07 | Tanuva | hasnt really got into om yet... |
| 14:57.24 | Dave | hey chilly |
| 14:58.58 | malik1972 | http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/ |
| 14:59.04 | Tanuva | btw, why do the ringtones/sounds in general exist in 3 (?) different formats eg. wav,ogg,rg? |
| 14:59.26 | Tanuva | malik1972: thanks :) |
| 14:59.29 | *** join/#openmoko Sascha (n=sisawess@cssun.rrze.uni-erlangen.de) |
| 15:00.19 | TAsn | how much time is make qemu supposed to take? |
| 15:00.50 | Dave | A long time :) |
| 15:00.58 | Dave | It's quite slow, in my experience. |
| 15:01.12 | TAsn | matter of hours, minutes or days? |
| 15:01.13 | TAsn | ;) |
| 15:01.14 | Tanuva | I'd say about an hour, but I may be wrong |
| 15:01.19 | Dave | no |
| 15:01.21 | *** join/#openmoko ramaya (n=alex@adsl153-237.kln.forthnet.gr) |
| 15:01.22 | Dave | minutes |
| 15:01.26 | Dave | 5 or so maybe |
| 15:01.39 | Dave | or less depending on your system, but it's still very slow. |
| 15:01.41 | TAsn | not that bad then :) |
| 15:01.45 | Dave | The phone is significantly quicker :P |
| 15:01.51 | TAsn | hehe :) |
| 15:01.52 | Tanuva | ah... the d/ls where terribly slow this morning, now I'm getting >300kbps |
| 15:02.00 | Dave | aha :P |
| 15:02.26 | Dave | So that was before it even booted :P |
| 15:02.31 | TAsn | btw, run-qemu runs the first neo-1973 software? |
| 15:02.35 | Dave | I was primarily referring to the booting process. |
| 15:02.39 | ramaya | has anyone freerunner ? |
| 15:02.44 | Dave | Ramaya, yes. |
| 15:02.48 | Tanuva | Dave: oh :x |
| 15:03.05 | ramaya | Dave: and what's your opinion ? |
| 15:03.10 | Dave | It's fine. |
| 15:03.22 | Dave | There is almost no software support for anything yet. |
| 15:03.26 | Dave | and that which exists blows. |
| 15:03.51 | Dave | but hey, it's all in the works :) |
| 15:04.00 | Dave | It's fun to play with, admittedly, if you can get things to work yourself. |
| 15:04.02 | ramaya | any problem ? |
| 15:04.14 | Dave | Many minor ones -- hey, it's open source :P |
| 15:04.18 | faern | Dave: what image do you run? asu/fso? |
| 15:04.28 | ramaya | do u have problems with the basic things such as calling ? |
| 15:04.28 | Dave | faern, hmm? |
| 15:04.38 | Dave | ramaya, oh, actually no, that works fine :P |
| 15:04.40 | Tanuva | oh I love these boots on the boot screen... :D |
| 15:04.50 | Dave | Uggh |
| 15:04.56 | Dave | That was such a terrible image/pun. |
| 15:05.02 | Dave | I'm glad you're finally there, Tanuva :p |
| 15:05.14 | ramaya | Dave: the performance is good? is it fast ? the browser etc .. |
| 15:05.20 | Dave | Fast? No. |
| 15:05.21 | Tanuva | Dave: I've been there before, the critical point is to come yet |
| 15:05.40 | Tanuva | (strange grammar, was that sentence understandable? :D) |
| 15:05.42 | Dave | It seems like it has distinctive performance issues, but this is in part due to crappily coded software. |
| 15:05.56 | Dave | As in, you have default daemons running all the time which whore cpu and shouldn't be :) |
| 15:06.11 | Dave | Plus, installing too much on it easily saturates it. |
| 15:06.18 | Dave | Though it runs, it'll just respond a tad bit slower. |
| 15:06.27 | Dave | (many apps reniced to -11 etc) |
| 15:06.45 | Dave | Overall it's nice though :) |
| 15:06.56 | *** join/#openmoko linuxxr (n=brian@ip70-178-27-23.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 15:07.02 | Dave | Hopefully the software will exist/catch up within two months or so time. |
| 15:07.24 | TAsn | Dave, what about battery time? |
| 15:07.31 | Dave | It's alright. |
| 15:07.51 | igor321 | Dave: you're running ASU? |
| 15:07.52 | Dave | I bet that is one aspect which will dramatically improve over time |
| 15:07.57 | TAsn | which results to how many hours of call and how many of standby? |
| 15:08.40 | linuxxr | once we get out freerunners how will the updates to the os get to us? |
| 15:08.49 | ramaya | so everything is a matter of sotfware ? the hardware is ok eh ? |
| 15:09.03 | linuxxr | automatically? |
| 15:09.08 | TAsn | linuxxr, i guess you will do ipkg update when near wifi... |
| 15:09.14 | linuxxr | ok |
| 15:09.22 | Dave | oh, yes, ASO I guess |
| 15:09.31 | TAsn | or upgrade, not sure about the syntax :) |
| 15:09.36 | Dave | oh yeah, the wiki antenna really blows in it :) |
| 15:09.41 | Dave | Don't say I didn't warn you ;) |
| 15:09.45 | TAsn | huh? |
| 15:10.00 | Dave | I've already sought out to attach a usb dongle or external antenna :P |
| 15:10.05 | Dave | But depends on what you're doing. |
| 15:10.07 | linuxxr | y thats how slackpkg works to |
| 15:10.12 | ramaya | Dave: do u watch videos ? |
| 15:10.17 | Dave | What do you mean? |
| 15:10.29 | Dave | ramaya, the hardware is great. |
| 15:10.46 | Dave | Except admittedly the antenna on the wifi seems to be rather weak (which is completely understandable) |
| 15:11.07 | ramaya | u mean you cannot connect ? |
| 15:11.17 | TAsn | Dave, weak means what? |
| 15:11.20 | Dave | No, I mean it is very low in strength. |
| 15:11.22 | TAsn | what distance? |
| 15:11.31 | Dave | Not strong enough to grab good sig str |
| 15:11.36 | Dave | it's weak db g |
| 15:11.49 | Dave | Dude, you figure it's what, like 2" at most? |
| 15:11.59 | LionKMP | Tanuva: did that image work better? |
| 15:12.03 | ramaya | and why it's understandable ? |
| 15:12.06 | Dave | I don't even care enough to check out the internal schematics to investigate further. |
| 15:12.11 | Dave | Ramaya read what I just said. |
| 15:12.30 | TAsn | compiling the neo image :) |
| 15:12.46 | TAsn | btw, how do i change to a freerunner\qtopia image |
| 15:12.50 | TAsn | in qemu... |
| 15:12.52 | Dave | It's small, and not very powerful, perhaps this will be improved in the past, then again wifi as a whole is improving as well, and may saturate the airwaves soon enough such. |
| 15:12.57 | LionKMP | aww, what image? make openmoko-devel-image? |
| 15:13.02 | Dave | yes |
| 15:13.13 | Dave | The qtopia image blew. |
| 15:13.21 | Tanuva | LionKMP: its the same as before... If I can figure out how to flash arbitrary images into my qemu-neo, I could try fso/asu... |
| 15:13.21 | LionKMP | TAsn: make download-images; make qemu-flash-official |
| 15:13.26 | TAsn | LionKMP, won't making it take forever? |
| 15:13.29 | TAsn | LionKMP, cool :) |
| 15:13.37 | Dave | no :P |
| 15:13.43 | *** join/#openmoko clare (n=clare@104.112.96.58.exetel.com.au) |
| 15:13.47 | TAsn | that gives me the freerunner or the qtopia? |
| 15:13.48 | Dave | don't worry, you won't be old by the time it's done :P |
| 15:13.50 | LionKMP | Tanuva: make qemu-flash-official flashes from the images/openmoko dir, whatever you have there. |
| 15:14.04 | Tanuva | LionKMP: ah..ehm.. I have Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-image... here, is this already asu? |
| 15:14.17 | malik1972 | tanuva: manually, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Manual_setup |
| 15:14.19 | Dave | eww |
| 15:14.20 | Tanuva | ah |
| 15:14.32 | Dave | Lion, surely you are running this on the pc |
| 15:14.36 | balrog-k1n | Tanuva: yeah, these should be the ASU |
| 15:14.39 | LionKMP | ahm, I am as much beginner as you are. But yes, I think that is it. (all with the mentioned BOOTS are) |
| 15:14.41 | Dave | Since it runs like ass on the phone. |
| 15:14.58 | LionKMP | ass? wish I had the phone already. |
| 15:15.02 | Dave | Yes. |
| 15:15.05 | *** part/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182054211.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:15.05 | LionKMP | ass is good or bad? :) |
| 15:15.08 | Dave | BAD |
| 15:15.09 | Dave | :P |
| 15:15.11 | Tanuva | malik1972: that looks like what I'm looking for... :D |
| 15:15.24 | Dave | First of all the apps are buggy, suck, and the qtopia image as a whole runs rather laggy on the phone. |
| 15:15.44 | ramaya | and what's your expectation ? do u believe that after the official release we will have better software ... as many will use it ? |
| 15:15.46 | Dave | granted you can increase the framerate such but it only accommodates so much. |
| 15:15.53 | Dave | ramaya, I definitely do! :) |
| 15:16.07 | Dave | Honestly, many developers are scrambling, each day working their butts off on cool software |
| 15:16.12 | Dave | at least the ones I know ;) |
| 15:16.40 | ramaya | we will se |
| 15:16.40 | ramaya | e |
| 15:16.45 | Dave | I've already gotten the GPS to work with tango and it was pretty sweet |
| 15:16.58 | Dave | I ran around outside playing with it; then drove around :P |
| 15:17.21 | Dave | Presently I am writing a couple small GPRS applications. |
| 15:17.39 | ramaya | in python ? |
| 15:17.49 | Tanuva | already planned to gps-trace his hometown for osm |
| 15:17.49 | Dave | nope |
| 15:18.05 | Dave | nice :p |
| 15:18.12 | faern | will do the same as Tanuva :D |
| 15:18.21 | balrog-k1n | already did :D |
| 15:18.25 | LionKMP | I'd rather use the Yahoo satellite images on OSM. Why not? |
| 15:18.30 | Dave | high-fives Balrog-kun |
| 15:18.41 | Tanuva | theres already somewhere around here who does it, but he hasnt got to every corner yet :D |
| 15:18.48 | Dave | right :P |
| 15:18.59 | *** part/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@host81-153-198-60.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:19.08 | Dave | is working on sekret development projekts |
| 15:19.15 | ramaya | Dave: how much did you buy it ? |
| 15:19.36 | Dave | Huh? |
| 15:19.59 | Dave | I didn't buy it, if you are referring to the phone. |
| 15:20.07 | ramaya | yes.. the phone |
| 15:20.09 | Dave | We got a large initial shipment from the mfc. |
| 15:20.10 | ramaya | a ok |
| 15:20.21 | Dave | One of our grants paid for it :) |
| 15:20.29 | ramaya | nice... |
| 15:20.46 | Dave | Yep |
| 15:20.51 | ramaya | i want an iphone... but i saw openmoko... |
| 15:20.52 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 15:20.56 | Dave | I've got three here on my desk :) |
| 15:21.02 | Dave | Ramaya, glad to hear you liked the openmoko :P |
| 15:21.03 | LionKMP | awww :-p |
| 15:21.06 | ramaya | i like the open source idea |
| 15:21.12 | *** join/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@host81-153-198-60.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:21.17 | Dave | honestly after software catches up, it will be way better than that stinky iphone :p |
| 15:21.25 | Dave | I mean, the hardware alone is better! |
| 15:21.26 | Dave | :D |
| 15:21.31 | ramaya | and i dont like all the thing with iphone..that is locked etc. |
| 15:21.35 | Dave | yes -_- |
| 15:21.37 | Dave | sucky |
| 15:21.39 | ramaya | so |
| 15:21.52 | ramaya | is it worthwile to buy an openmoko ? |
| 15:21.57 | Dave | Yes, very. |
| 15:21.59 | Tanuva | sure |
| 15:21.59 | Dave | :D |
| 15:22.12 | Dave | will be back later. |
| 15:22.14 | Tanuva | at least if you dont expect it do do everything everywhere out of the box |
| 15:22.47 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@p579B82E3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:23.11 | ramaya | what i want is a gadget that can connect to the net , listen music . watch videos .. et.c and to develop sth for ity |
| 15:23.42 | LionKMP | no phone? |
| 15:23.46 | Tanuva | videos are critical atm, but music and web should work afaik |
| 15:23.46 | *** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=a@89.1.13.3.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 15:24.00 | jonwil | do you need wifi or GSM or both? |
| 15:24.12 | ramaya | the fact tha is phone is goog because it is one device for all |
| 15:24.14 | faern | :q |
| 15:24.19 | faern | oops.. err |
| 15:24.20 | ramaya | wifi... |
| 15:25.11 | jonwil | I love OpenMoko. |
| 15:25.13 | ramaya | i wouldn't say no to gsm.. but wifi is important |
| 15:25.30 | LionKMP | jonwil: do you have it? |
| 15:25.34 | jonwil | nope |
| 15:25.37 | LionKMP | :-p |
| 15:25.43 | faern | 3g would be nicer than wifi. its more accessible |
| 15:25.54 | *** join/#openmoko eth01 (i=foo@gentoo/user/eth01) |
| 15:25.57 | jonwil | Build a version with a keypad (say, a slider like the motorola Z6 or a candybar like the Motorola L6 or E8) and I am SO there |
| 15:26.01 | ramaya | faern: both 3g and wifi |
| 15:26.03 | eth01 | :) |
| 15:26.07 | jonwil | But I dont want a touchscreen phone |
| 15:26.08 | faern | why not :D |
| 15:26.33 | jonwil | I just dont like touchscreen phones |
| 15:26.38 | jonwil | I prefer phones with numberpad |
| 15:26.41 | swc|666 | qwerty would be nice |
| 15:26.46 | LionKMP | I have a 3G (lame) phone, and never used 3G in it yet. :-p |
| 15:26.51 | faern | dvorak even nicer :D |
| 15:26.57 | ramaya | the fact that freerunner is not 3g is not good... but ok... maybe the next |
| 15:27.12 | jonwil | not really a fan of full-keyboards either, the phone is too big or the buttons are too small |
| 15:27.14 | LionKMP | I think, we could use a bluetooth mini keyboard if really needed. |
| 15:27.26 | jonwil | I think that making OpenMoko support bluetooth keyboards would be good though |
| 15:27.34 | jonwil | Another thing Apple refuses to do :) |
| 15:27.35 | swc|666 | jonwil.. not true, the htc kaiser has a qwerty and is pretty compact |
| 15:27.37 | mjr | A phone with everything would be nice of course but this is what we're getting now. Best way you can ensure more variety of devices coming up is getting the Freerunner and writing nice stuff for it ;P |
| 15:27.53 | mjr | LionKMP, indeed; I have one |
| 15:27.57 | LionKMP | agreed |
| 15:27.58 | mjr | jonwil, it does |
| 15:28.06 | jonwil | nice |
| 15:28.16 | mjr | though last I used it there was nasty interaction with the onscreen keyboard |
| 15:28.18 | mjr | still, basically works |
| 15:28.38 | LionKMP | mjr: can you provide a link to that keyboard? is it a small one? |
| 15:28.39 | eth01 | this has probably been asked so many times. but i can't be bothered to look. |
| 15:28.44 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 15:28.44 | ramaya | do u know anything about a possible openmoko sdk ? |
| 15:28.54 | eth01 | can you buy this little ugly device yet or... ? |
| 15:28.55 | Tanuva | isnt this the toolchain? |
| 15:29.17 | eth01 | seems very unclear on openmoko.org |
| 15:29.18 | LionKMP | eth01: http://www.openmoko.com/store.html (click the active link) |
| 15:29.25 | jonwil | There is no SDK for OpenMoko, only the source code and toolchain used to build the software |
| 15:29.25 | LionKMP | yes, use .com :) |
| 15:29.26 | Tanuva | eth01: we're nearly there |
| 15:29.35 | eth01 | i c. |
| 15:29.44 | mjr | LionKMP, I use this one, though they've sadly I think stopped manufacturing them since: http://www.nokiaphoneblog.com/2006/07/freedom_mini_bluetooth_keyboar.html |
| 15:30.06 | *** join/#openmoko gmaxwell (n=NT4TN@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001) |
| 15:30.13 | mjr | LionKMP, sadly since that's the only one I've thus far seen with that spring-loaded hinge that helps it attach to a phone |
| 15:30.35 | jonwil | I do applaud OpenMoko though, they have basically produced a phone that is about as open as it is legally possible to get |
| 15:30.46 | mjr | it's not excellent otherwise, but what small kb is... I would recommend it because of the hinge if you can find it sold still somewhere |
| 15:30.58 | gmaxwell | So, I'm a 1973 owner and I was excited to hear the freerunner was shipping (wifi and perhaps even working power management? woo!) ... but I can't find where to buy it. Where should I be looking? |
| 15:31.44 | faern | gmaxwell: link pasted two minutes ago |
| 15:31.44 | jonwil | btw, I heard that next model of OpenMoko phone is going to drop the GPU and add a camera, is this true? |
| 15:31.46 | abraxa_ | gmaxwell: Depends on where you're from. If you're outside the EU you'll have to wait until the official shop on openmoko.com opens, unfortunately |
| 15:31.48 | TAsn | have anyone tried running the basic moko image (make qemu) inside virtualbox+ |
| 15:31.49 | eth01 | harshly expensive. not that i care. |
| 15:31.50 | TAsn | ? |
| 15:31.52 | jonwil | And what else is planned to be changed? |
| 15:31.59 | LionKMP | mjr: I see, yep, I saw this when finding one day. that left sided cursor keys looked difficult to get used to :) |
| 15:32.02 | gmaxwell | abraxa_, Ah, yes, I'm in the US. |
| 15:32.05 | mjr | jonwil, that is true as far as anyone knows. Also (probably) edge. |
| 15:32.16 | TAsn | because it is crashing my virtualbox... |
| 15:32.19 | jonwil | Hopefully they can get quad band GSM in there as well |
| 15:32.35 | jonwil | If they are going to use EDGE, that means a new GSM chipset |
| 15:32.49 | jonwil | which makes quad band possible in theory |
| 15:32.51 | gmaxwell | faern, :) Doesn't help me since I just joined... ;) |
| 15:32.56 | Tanuva | TAsn: why would you want to do this? |
| 15:33.24 | mjr | jonwil, one would hope, yes. But anyway, the timetable is wide open and a Freerunner gets you in the game ;) |
| 15:33.24 | faern | gmaxwell: http://openmoko.com/store.html |
| 15:33.27 | TAsn | Tanuva, i have an ugly full of stuff ubuntu installation emulate in virtualbox |
| 15:33.38 | eth01 | whens the official store actually opening then? |
| 15:33.46 | LionKMP | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:34.07 | jonwil | the other thing that would make me interested in openmoko is if they added 3G |
| 15:34.08 | TAsn | and installing all the crap essential for the build there sounds like a better idea |
| 15:34.34 | Tanuva | TAsn: but running a vm in a vm is damn slow... |
| 15:34.41 | gmaxwell | Wee.. So I guess I'm going to have to just keep checking the store twice a day just to have a chance to beat the flood of purchases when it goes on slashdot. |
| 15:34.56 | TAsn | Tanuva, running an os on a phone is also slow ;0 |
| 15:35.03 | TAsn | (computer os |
| 15:35.13 | eth01 | you wouldn't want to run a VM in a VM. |
| 15:35.14 | mjr | jonwil, yeah, obviously. That's not for GTA03, though, too expensive and/or proprietary interfaces and so on for a small outfit at this point. |
| 15:35.19 | zash | phones are computers these days |
| 15:35.27 | jonwil | yes, 3G would be expensive |
| 15:35.33 | jonwil | in the small volume needed |
| 15:35.33 | TAsn | eth01, why not? |
| 15:35.35 | mjr | for now, GSM casts a (geographically) wider net and is cheaper to start with |
| 15:35.46 | LionKMP | I think he means compiling an i386 binary of the whole os. isn't it? (not vm in vm) |
| 15:35.47 | zash | how long ago did computers have ~400MHz? |
| 15:35.48 | jonwil | and also, it would be difficult to find a 3G chipset that was open enough for openmoko |
| 15:35.53 | eth01 | TAsn: i was hoping nobody would reply. it's self-explanatory. |
| 15:36.12 | eth01 | ? |
| 15:36.18 | abraxa_ | gmaxwell: And register to the announce mailing list because I assume that Sean will make an announcement when the shop opens |
| 15:36.36 | mjr | jonwil, yeah one hopes the 3g chipset situation improves while they're doing 03 still with gsm... |
| 15:36.41 | TAsn | eth01, well i did |
| 15:36.51 | TAsn | now is there a reason why it should get stuck? |
| 15:37.06 | TAsn | except for being slow? |
| 15:37.07 | jonwil | am I correct in that the only piece of code running on the application side that is not open source is the GPS driver? |
| 15:37.16 | gmaxwell | abraxa_, Thanks |
| 15:37.29 | mjr | jonwil, that was GTA01 times. Freerunner changed GPS chips, that's gone as well |
| 15:37.41 | jonwil | ok, so freerunner has open source GPS chip now? |
| 15:37.48 | *** join/#openmoko cheng (n=cheng@xGagB214.WH1.tu-dresden.de) |
| 15:37.57 | gmaxwell | jonwil, on GTA01 that was the case, but it's not anymore. GPS is supposed to be open now. |
| 15:38.00 | abraxa_ | jonwil: "open source" in the sense of "it does not need a driver", yes |
| 15:38.07 | mjr | jonwil, no, rather it has the similar closed bits hidden in its firmware :] |
| 15:38.26 | jonwil | firmware which runs on the GPS chip and not the host processor I guess |
| 15:38.32 | jonwil | in which case its fine |
| 15:38.36 | mjr | but here we again arrive at the "as open as legally possible" territory |
| 15:38.44 | LionKMP | every day |
| 15:38.48 | mjr | at least when you're taking the devices across US borders... |
| 15:39.20 | *** join/#openmoko grummel69 (n=christia@cl-13.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 15:39.24 | gmaxwell | Thanks all! |
| 15:39.26 | mjr | (GPS solutions that don't restrict operation in certain speeds and altitudes are munitions to them) |
| 15:39.29 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 15:39.55 | jonwil | I can understand why though, such chips could be used in missiles or bombs |
| 15:40.27 | jonwil | imagine bad guy takes tour of whitehouse and records GPS position then programs missile with coordinates and fires it |
| 15:40.31 | TAsn | seems it doesn't get stuck, just really really slow. |
| 15:40.34 | Tanuva | you could also use a random axe from any store to kill some people, I think this is somehow paranoid... |
| 15:40.37 | TAsn | lets wait and see :) |
| 15:40.38 | faern | lol. the whole world is run by terrorist fear these days. silly |
| 15:40.59 | jonwil | still, the good thing is that they found a chipset that moved the closed source bits to its own CPU |
| 15:41.06 | Tanuva | nearly everything can be useful to build a bomb |
| 15:41.48 | mjr | well the reason seems solid on the face of it, but really, can't be overly difficult to eg. hack the proprietary gllin driver (that's the gta01 thing) to remove the limits if you really want to make cruise missiles... |
| 15:42.23 | faern | or you could make a missile that runs at car speeds :D |
| 15:42.26 | mjr | jonwil, but yes, it is for various reasons, even practical ones, nicer |
| 15:43.12 | mjr | (lost of trouble with getting gllin shipped and working and so on...) |
| 15:43.15 | jonwil | wonders if someone will be daft enough to try and port, say, BSD, to the Freerunner |
| 15:43.34 | mjr | I think somebody had a BSD running on NFS root already at some point |
| 15:43.35 | jonwil | Considering the number of wierd devices people have ported BSD to, it wouldnt surprise me |
| 15:43.42 | mjr | but dunno details |
| 15:43.50 | mjr | IIRC the wiki has some mentions |
| 15:44.14 | Tanuva | is seeing boots again... |
| 15:45.10 | jonwil | as for 3G, I dont think anyone (big or small) has shipped a 3G phone using a kernel that is open source |
| 15:45.45 | jonwil | maybe in the future OpenMoko will be the first :) |
| 15:45.51 | jonwil | but for now, GSM is good |
| 15:45.51 | LionKMP | Tanuva: I found tested images: http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Freerunner/ :) (Didn't try, I am wondering whether gta02 images work in QEmu and where is the third file) |
| 15:46.24 | Tanuva | LionKMP: 02 images do work if you tell qemu -M gta02fake instead of -M gta01 |
| 15:46.35 | Tanuva | although 02 support isnt mature yet |
| 15:46.38 | mjr | jonwil, not good, but it'll do :] |
| 15:47.33 | jonwil | I recon for GTA03, a nice goal should be to at least match, if not beat all featureset of 1st generation 2G iPhone |
| 15:47.51 | jonwil | I think FreeRunner is close |
| 15:47.59 | jonwil | and planned GTA03 is even closer |
| 15:48.06 | LionKMP | ... |
| 15:48.47 | mjr | well yes, hw-wise, it beats the 2g device in many categories, though loses out in some, which the 03 should address |
| 15:49.32 | jonwil | From what I know the main things the iPhone has that FreeRunner does not is quadband GSM, EDGE and Camera |
| 15:49.51 | jonwil | I dont think there is any other hw in the 2G iPhone that FreeRunner does not have |
| 15:50.25 | mjr | but iPhone comparisons shouldn't be overly encouraged, IMO |
| 15:50.32 | jonwil | hmmm yeah |
| 15:50.32 | eth01 | i'm going to buy one of these to chuck in a blender |
| 15:50.33 | eth01 | i think |
| 15:50.39 | Tanuva | why does everyone want a camera in his phone? I cant see any use for crappy phone-made pictures... |
| 15:50.47 | jonwil | I dont like camera in phone |
| 15:50.51 | jonwil | but some people do |
| 15:51.03 | mjr | in many ways, as Sean has said, this is the anti-iPhone |
| 15:51.07 | LionKMP | I make a lot of those crappy photos with my Motorola and then I hate them all. :-p |
| 15:51.17 | Tanuva | lol |
| 15:51.18 | mjr | they're very restrictive with what you're allowed to do |
| 15:51.37 | faern | There are phones with 5Mp camera and flash these days. I want one of those in the neo |
| 15:51.51 | Tanuva | hmm... cant flash.sh process gta02 images? |
| 15:52.52 | jonwil | It doesnt matter if its 5Mp and has a flash, any camera without an optical zoom is useless IMO |
| 15:53.18 | Tanuva | jonwil: thats it! |
| 15:53.41 | mjr | a camera on the phone would have uses like barcode scanning etc :] |
| 15:53.59 | mjr | I don't think it's high priority either, but 03 should provide for those who do |
| 15:54.02 | dcordes | faern: 5megapixel? lol |
| 15:54.03 | Tanuva | that would require a fairly good camera to be reliable |
| 15:54.09 | jonwil | does OpenMoko have a web browser yet? |
| 15:54.15 | dcordes | on a mobile phone. I need 100Mp with a crappy image quality please |
| 15:54.16 | Tanuva | jonwil: yes |
| 15:54.27 | Tanuva | jonwil: at least the gtk stack has one |
| 15:54.30 | faern | dcordes: the pics look quite decent. very good for being a phone |
| 15:54.36 | mjr | meanwhile, I _have_ already ordered an open Linux pocket cam from the community list ;P |
| 15:54.42 | dcordes | the 3M in my htc kaiser is complete bullshit |
| 15:54.46 | jonwil | is it webkit based browser? |
| 15:54.58 | jonwil | i.e. KHTML? |
| 15:55.09 | Tanuva | jonwil: dont know what gtk uses |
| 15:55.21 | abraxa_ | jonwil: Yeah, webkit |
| 15:55.26 | jonwil | cool |
| 15:56.00 | jonwil | It seems as though ever since Apple used webkit on the iPhone for the browser, its been showing up more and more on mobile devices (not just OpenMoko but Motorola linux phones too) |
| 15:57.13 | faern | Up until today I had never heard of asu or fso. and now everyone treats the gtk stack as the pestilence. what a turn :/ |
| 15:57.49 | TAsn | faern, asu is in the topic for a couple of months now :) |
| 15:57.56 | mjr | faern, no, everyone doesn't |
| 15:58.12 | faern | TAsn: ok :P I just havent researched it then :P |
| 15:58.27 | mjr | though Somebody (TM) would be nice to port it over to the fso middleware as many have noted |
| 15:58.48 | igor321 | may i just adress one thing, everyone is saying that the freerunner will be graphically useless, but at 20 fps qvga it's it has 70% of it's cpu power available, my point is this, wasn't half-life running on a 133 mhz pc 10 years ago? |
| 15:59.03 | TAsn | faern, it used to be APRIL software update, so figure out yourself ;0 |
| 15:59.39 | faern | :P |
| 15:59.55 | igor321 | the frerunner seems more then capable to run games in qvga, or am i somehow mistaken? |
| 16:01.00 | *** join/#openmoko yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-170-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 16:01.48 | mjr | igor321, I don't think you are |
| 16:02.35 | igor321 | mjr: i remeber runing half-life without any 3d acceleration, but i could be mistaken |
| 16:02.37 | Tanuva | igor321: the problem is the missing 3d acceleration afaik |
| 16:02.40 | *** join/#openmoko yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-170-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 16:02.50 | Tanuva | hmm |
| 16:03.12 | mjr | yes well, think "doom" ;) |
| 16:03.18 | abraxa_ | igor321: Keep in mind that every pixel moved onto the screen prevents the CPU from doing anything else |
| 16:03.37 | igor321 | abraxa_: i've taken that into consideration |
| 16:03.38 | mjr | abraxa_, I think he did, by counting 20 fps qvga taking 30% of the time to just draw? |
| 16:03.49 | abraxa_ | okay then |
| 16:04.28 | igor321 | when did 3dfx voodo come out? |
| 16:05.21 | *** join/#openmoko cekay (n=cekay@xdsl-213-196-248-151.netcologne.de) |
| 16:06.33 | igor321 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_2 |
| 16:06.42 | igor321 | check out the requirements for quake2 |
| 16:07.13 | igor321 | 90 mhz, and on a screen as small as the freerunners it would look sweet :) |
| 16:08.18 | Tanuva | but q2 is a quite fast game, how do you want to deal with input? accelerometers maybe, but they arent too accurate... |
| 16:08.26 | *** join/#openmoko avoine (n=avoine@pdpc/supporter/active/avoine) |
| 16:09.20 | igor321 | Tanuva: yeah i'm not actually thinking of porting it, just saying there were lots of good looking games back then |
| 16:09.22 | mjr | yeah, input is another kettle of fish. Or a more apt analogy. |
| 16:09.30 | Tanuva | seems like I have to get a gta02-uboot from somewhere... but not today, gotta leave you now :) |
| 16:09.31 | mjr | but what he said |
| 16:09.41 | Tanuva | igor321: I wont doubt that :) |
| 16:10.25 | igor321 | can't wait to get it |
| 16:10.29 | mjr | still wants to adapt sdl-sopwith, but that'll probably require a bluetooth keypad to sanely control |
| 16:10.40 | mjr | (luckily I have one ;) |
| 16:11.09 | igor321 | hehe |
| 16:11.42 | igor321 | i'd like to see a puzzle bobble (frozen-bubble) port |
| 16:11.57 | igor321 | i guess the controls would make sense :) |
| 16:12.06 | LionKMP | s3c_nand_read: Bad register 0x20 |
| 16:12.20 | LionKMP | hm, I bricked my qemu :) |
| 16:12.45 | igor321 | LionKMP: says that to me too, but still works :) |
| 16:13.27 | LionKMP | igor321: hehe, it does not work here. it was coming while trying to flash a gta02 image. (then I stopped it by kill -9) |
| 16:13.50 | *** join/#openmoko ohin (n=opera@zli1-v-1-166.static.adsl.vol.cz) |
| 16:18.11 | *** join/#openmoko Pander (n=chatzill@ip235-130-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 16:18.24 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485C15A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:22.54 | faern | which software stack is the image in the freerunner based on? the Image that the phone is shipped with |
| 16:25.00 | mjr | om2008.2 |
| 16:26.29 | faern | is that gtk/asu/fso? |
| 16:26.36 | mjr | gtk |
| 16:26.39 | faern | ok |
| 16:27.35 | tedo | i though it is shipped with asu/qtopia? |
| 16:27.41 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 16:27.47 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 16:28.13 | faern | SpeedEvil: was your happiness wrongly targeted? |
| 16:28.19 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 16:33.54 | mjr | tedo, no, apparently that's to be separately installed if you want it |
| 16:34.20 | tedo | mjr: thx, nice. |
| 16:35.56 | *** join/#openmoko Mek (n=marijn@sd511660d.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 16:36.27 | *** join/#openmoko sudharsh_ (n=sudharsh@59.92.93.235) |
| 16:39.42 | *** join/#openmoko rockstar` (n=rockstar@75-171-134-244.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 16:42.49 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178055180.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:47.51 | *** join/#openmoko mosko (n=mosko@61-229-128-218.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 16:47.53 | jzoef | hello, i downloaded the toolchain and compiled the sample. Now I want to test this program on the emulator. I can run 'make run-qemu' and the system boots, but i can not start an application or a terminal :( |
| 16:49.02 | jzoef | I can see 'no network' on the screen and a few buttons, but they do not do anything. |
| 16:50.20 | *** join/#openmoko fenfir (n=fenfir@206.255.217.100) |
| 16:50.47 | *** join/#openmoko samgee (n=samgee@172.190-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 16:51.58 | Pander | Hi all, does anyone know what devices exist that connect USB or BlueTooth to UMTS? |
| 16:53.05 | Pander | (Which go well with OpenMoko FreeRunner) |
| 16:53.40 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e181161022.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:56.01 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 16:56.10 | SpeedEvil | Any of the USB modems pretty much |
| 16:56.21 | *** part/#openmoko rmoravcik1 (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 16:56.27 | SpeedEvil | Go and find a provider that you like, look at the models they supply. |
| 16:56.34 | SpeedEvil | Then google for eeepc modemname |
| 16:56.49 | SpeedEvil | And you'll probably find a walk-through |
| 16:57.48 | bipak | is it right that the battery only lasts about 12h? |
| 16:57.57 | SpeedEvil | That's a complex issue. |
| 16:58.10 | SpeedEvil | Basically, the power managment is 30% or so completed. |
| 16:58.36 | bipak | but its more a software than a hardware problem? |
| 16:58.36 | SpeedEvil | When it's done, it should last a week standby. |
| 16:58.44 | SpeedEvil | Yes, believed to be so at the moment. |
| 16:58.49 | bipak | ok :) |
| 16:59.06 | SpeedEvil | The battery life is exactly what's expected due to the limited power saving that's done. |
| 16:59.30 | Pander | USB UMTS modems are all around 150 - 200 euro/dollar, hmmm... |
| 17:00.01 | *** join/#openmoko kennyz (n=kennyz@uralnet.org) |
| 17:00.48 | mjr | running a USB UMTS device will probably drain your battery pretty fast though :) |
| 17:01.34 | mjr | but I suppose I will have to try it out as well (I'm getting a Huawei 169 next week, for leasing out my soul for two years to my operator) |
| 17:01.56 | Pander | well, it is the only wayt to use freerunner in japan, and for that matter I don't intent to make long calls there anyway ;) |
| 17:02.23 | mjr | calls, hmm, may require additional software effort to make it call through it |
| 17:02.43 | jzoef | is it possible to get a program working under qemu? (see my question above) |
| 17:03.30 | mjr | notes it's very annoying that all the funky USB adapters available over the counter lack the male-mini-b-to-female-a option :( |
| 17:03.45 | mjr | ones I've seen here, anyway |
| 17:03.56 | Pander | also that :S I really hope UMTS will be supported one way or the other |
| 17:04.19 | mjr | well it's less about the UMTS and more about how the sticks handle the audio interface |
| 17:05.28 | Pander | mjr, if you have seen one that combines will with freerunner, let me know of post it here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UMTS |
| 17:05.34 | *** join/#openmoko rockstar (n=rockstar@75-171-173-226.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 17:06.16 | mjr | Pander, well, when I get around to testing my Huawei (mostly for data transfer), I'll keep in mind to make a note |
| 17:07.51 | McKael | jzoef: the image seems to be broken |
| 17:08.15 | *** join/#openmoko Varox-DT (n=Varox@p4FD44FC0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:08.22 | Pander | which one of http://www.huawei.com/mobileweb/en/view.do?id=462 |
| 17:08.52 | mjr | (I'll note that I'm not getting the Huawei for the Neo precisely, but for laptop(s) and desktop in case of outages ;) |
| 17:09.47 | McKael | jzoef: you can try the images in http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/ |
| 17:11.04 | TAsn | i see "make download-images && make qemu-flash-official (or what ever it's name is)" make qtopia (which is asu, right?) how can i get the freerunner? |
| 17:11.34 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@170.Red-79-146-94.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:11.46 | TAsn | or for instance how do i use the images McKael linked? |
| 17:11.53 | TAsn | (brb going to the other room) |
| 17:12.00 | *** join/#openmoko Gottox (n=Gottox@s01.de) |
| 17:13.00 | McKael | TAsn: I copied the files to images/openmoko/ |
| 17:13.07 | McKael | seems to work... |
| 17:13.42 | McKael | LOL, kobodeluxe works very well |
| 17:14.29 | mjr | yeah that's also encouraging in the sense of gaming with the Freerunner |
| 17:18.14 | mjr | I don't know how kobo works but if it's possible to do most of the scrolling with gpu blits it would help... |
| 17:19.05 | TAsn | McKael, how does it know which to choose? |
| 17:19.40 | McKael | TAsn: I don't know, I moved the previous files |
| 17:19.51 | TAsn | good enough ;) |
| 17:20.14 | jzoef | ok, i downloaded a /recommended image and replaced three files, (the most recent versions), and now 'make run-qemu' has booted into a different desktop. looking good... |
| 17:20.37 | LionKMP | the old gtk one :) |
| 17:21.30 | faern | jzoef: I just managed to do the same :D |
| 17:21.38 | *** join/#openmoko fenfir (n=fenfir@206.255.217.100) |
| 17:21.55 | faern | much nicer :D |
| 17:27.10 | *** join/#openmoko apol_ (n=apol@156.Red-79-152-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:27.50 | TAsn | boot already damn it :) im running it on an ultra slow computer |
| 17:28.00 | TAsn | maybe weaker than the phone itself :( |
| 17:30.01 | TAsn | hm i copied the latest recommended images (uboot, openmoko and the third one) put them all in the images dir, though i still get the boots, is this normal? |
| 17:30.16 | TAsn | (can't tell more than that since that cpu is SLOW) |
| 17:31.48 | McKael | TAsn: the boot is slow (with Qemu at least) |
| 17:33.27 | TAsn | ok |
| 17:33.35 | TAsn | i hope it's just with qemu |
| 17:33.41 | McKael | :) |
| 17:33.46 | TAsn | though boot isn't that important on the phone anyway :) |
| 17:34.52 | jzoef | no i didnt get the boots (shoes) this time. |
| 17:35.21 | TAsn | jzoef, :\ |
| 17:35.26 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 17:35.36 | TAsn | that's what i asked... weird, what files did you download? |
| 17:35.47 | TAsn | (weird that it didn't change for me) |
| 17:36.40 | *** join/#openmoko zeno__ (n=andrew@c-75-70-202-80.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 17:36.42 | McKael | Oh, the boots... Sorry TAsn... |
| 17:36.45 | jzoef | Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080430-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2, u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.1+svnr4297+gitb29661fc1151077776454288051bc9a488351ce8-r3.bin, uImage-2.6.24+svnr4301-r4251-r5-om-gta01.bin |
| 17:37.54 | jzoef | i could start a terminal and install my sample app, though it's all still a bit slow on my 2500 GHz |
| 17:38.11 | jzoef | MHz, that is |
| 17:38.12 | ramaya | do u have any ready virtual image of openmoko os ? |
| 17:38.44 | mjr | jzoef, to be expected. qemu's usefulness is overhyped for om stuff |
| 17:39.37 | *** part/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 17:39.40 | Dave | Greeting |
| 17:40.35 | jzoef | mrj yeah, (if i start with serious development), is it possible to run it as an x86 machine, chrooted, or something more 'native'? |
| 17:42.33 | *** part/#openmoko Infinyte (n=Infinyte@66-146-251-206.gtmc.net) |
| 17:43.12 | jzoef | so how do you all develop, just copy stuff to you r phone? |
| 17:46.41 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178055180.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:46.54 | mjr | you can compile for x86 and run perhaps in a nested X server for the correct dimensions |
| 17:47.20 | mjr | personally I prefer python, no compiling, and copying over, but I'm a small fish ;] |
| 17:48.45 | Dave | So THAT's what smells in here... |
| 17:49.12 | Dave | :P |
| 17:50.39 | *** join/#openmoko TAsnn (n=a@89.1.31.178.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 17:50.41 | goodwill | I triend flashing http://downloads.openmoko.org/asu/ to qemu...and its just pretty unha[[y |
| 17:50.49 | goodwill | unhappy |
| 17:50.53 | goodwill | no flash |
| 17:51.08 | goodwill | Please wait, programming the NAND flash... 11984 |
| 17:51.08 | goodwill | qemu: fatal: Trying to execute code outside RAM or ROM at 0x00000008 |
| 17:51.12 | *** join/#openmoko tasn23 (n=tv@89.1.31.178.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 17:51.23 | tasn23 | phew. now it's working :) |
| 17:51.31 | tasn23 | (at least the splash screen is) |
| 17:51.50 | goodwill | tasn23: whatch ya doing? |
| 17:51.56 | Dave | hah |
| 17:52.03 | tasn23 | i gotta say it looks slicker than the boots :) |
| 17:52.16 | Dave | haha, lame. |
| 17:52.21 | tasn23 | goodwill, giving moko dev a try... (qemu) |
| 17:52.44 | goodwill | tasn23: ware you using mokomakefile? |
| 17:53.05 | tasn23 | yeah. |
| 17:53.21 | goodwill | tasn23: gta01 or gta02 stuff? |
| 17:53.28 | tasn23 | though i tried the link someone put here earlier with the recommend images |
| 17:53.57 | tasn23 | goodwill, i think 01 not sure though, using the images from http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/ |
| 17:54.08 | *** join/#openmoko alphabea1 (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 17:54.27 | goodwill | hmmm |
| 17:54.45 | tasn23 | just wanna feel a bit of moko ;0 |
| 17:54.48 | goodwill | I was kinda hopping somebody managed to get gta02 from /asu there running in qemu |
| 17:55.55 | tasn23 | booting takes forever though : |
| 17:56.02 | jzoef | yeah I think with the mokomakefile you end up with a gta01 machine. |
| 17:56.12 | goodwill | tasn23: yeah liek at least 2 minutes |
| 17:56.16 | tasn23 | goodwill, i think i saw a simple guide to running gta02 emu |
| 17:56.22 | goodwill | tasn23: ? |
| 17:56.30 | tedo | i'm trying now to get gta2, but i get an error during "flashing" |
| 17:56.32 | Dave | ships his junk off to goodwill |
| 17:56.48 | goodwill | tedo: yeah me too |
| 17:56.55 | goodwill | Dave: stuff is coming to fremont? |
| 17:57.01 | Dave | hah! |
| 17:57.05 | Dave | maybe :] |
| 17:57.14 | tasn23 | goodwill, as i said earlier, im using a machine as powerful as the moko itself and the machine has to run linux as well, not to mention moko is emulated... |
| 17:57.27 | goodwill | tasn23: that sucks |
| 17:57.30 | Dave | hah |
| 17:57.41 | tasn23 | goodwill, p3 rocks ;0 |
| 17:57.44 | goodwill | Dave: you seem to be in a hah mood today |
| 17:57.51 | goodwill | tasn23: ooooh yaaahhh |
| 17:57.55 | tasn23 | goodwill, he has a device... |
| 17:58.12 | goodwill | tasn23: I know... |
| 17:58.16 | tasn23 | of course he will be happy then. |
| 17:58.28 | jzoef | can you start a python interpreter from the terminal (i'm just looking around) |
| 17:58.35 | tasn23 | damn this loading is slow... |
| 17:58.40 | Dave | Goodwill, do you approve? :P |
| 17:58.55 | goodwill | Dave: of course |
| 17:59.06 | goodwill | Dave: if I had one of them I'd be ha here and ha there too |
| 17:59.18 | Dave | :) |
| 17:59.33 | tasn23 | Dave, you don't know what you got till it's gone... |
| 17:59.35 | tasn23 | ;0 |
| 17:59.40 | Dave | Going to take one to the pool with me soon, oh but don't worry, I'm not testing it's "nautical application" just yet :P |
| 17:59.46 | *** join/#openmoko slchen (n=slchen@61-64-101-232-adsl-tpe.dynamic.so-net.net.tw) |
| 17:59.52 | tasn23 | it is still configuring gnome-vfs :( |
| 18:00.08 | Dave | haha that'd be sweet, actually |
| 18:00.43 | Dave | depth and equip it with a sonar module on a tethered dongle... |
| 18:00.47 | tasn23 | weehee got a warning, but at least it's configuring hal now... |
| 18:01.00 | Dave | goes off to think up more excitingly silliness in his openmoko daydreams |
| 18:01.27 | tasn23 | i want one! |
| 18:01.42 | SpeedEvil | Dave: USB servo interface, and an artificial dolphin. |
| 18:01.47 | tasn23 | it is saying configuring multitap-pad, what is that? |
| 18:01.56 | tasn23 | SpeedEvil, lol. |
| 18:02.01 | Dave | Speedevil, ooh yay! |
| 18:02.11 | Dave | Flipper on Freerunner! |
| 18:02.24 | Dave | Man, for a minute there I was almost thinking seaquest ;) |
| 18:02.41 | tasn23 | is it recognized as a drive when connected to a pc? |
| 18:03.31 | mjr | it's a network interface |
| 18:03.56 | tasn23 | i see there's pulse audio, nice. |
| 18:04.29 | mjr | Well. Nice and not. |
| 18:04.37 | tasn23 | mjr, bloated? |
| 18:04.42 | Dave | Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 18:04.47 | *** join/#openmoko lzy-- (n=lzy@59-126-117-54.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 18:04.48 | mjr | traditionally performance problems, dunno how fixed they are |
| 18:05.04 | tasn23 | too bad im already waiting for 15 mins for boot! |
| 18:05.13 | tasn23 | mjr, i c. |
| 18:06.05 | SpeedEvil | TAsnn: no - however in principle it can be. |
| 18:06.16 | SpeedEvil | nas: it's recongised as a network adaptor |
| 18:06.59 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rabc003bb5408 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/modems/abstract/pdp.py: ophoned: org.freesmartphone.GSM.PDP.[Dea|A]ctivateContext() now works, honoring APN only for now. |
| 18:07.29 | tasn23 | SpeedEvil, what were you reffering to? (the bloated or something else i said?) |
| 18:07.46 | tasn23 | Dave, what's the boot time on the device? |
| 18:08.11 | SpeedEvil | TAsnn: oh - sorry |
| 18:08.19 | Dave | Hmm? |
| 18:08.28 | *** join/#openmoko buz_ (n=buz@c-75-75-24-184.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 18:08.30 | Dave | How long it should relatively take? openmoko on qemu? |
| 18:08.32 | SpeedEvil | TAsnn: I thought you were talking about the freerunner - it can be configured in principle to behave like any USB device. |
| 18:08.39 | SpeedEvil | daqv: it's really slow |
| 18:08.42 | tasn23 | Dave, no, openmoko on the freerunner |
| 18:08.48 | Dave | oh |
| 18:08.58 | Dave | It's much faster than emulated :) |
| 18:09.04 | Dave | But it's a bit lagged sometimes. |
| 18:09.06 | SpeedEvil | Dave: qemu is about 10-50% of speed, reportedly, depending on your CPU |
| 18:09.19 | tasn23 | SpeedEvil, can be configured when it's active or you have to restart? |
| 18:09.26 | Dave | right |
| 18:09.48 | tasn23 | Dave, faster than emulated is a sure bet, how fast is the boot in minutes though? |
| 18:09.49 | SpeedEvil | TAsnn: active. But the softwaqre to do this isn't there. |
| 18:10.03 | tasn23 | SpeedEvil, cool enough. |
| 18:10.04 | Dave | on the gta02? |
| 18:10.10 | tasn23 | Dave, yeah. |
| 18:10.12 | SpeedEvil | TAsnn: in principle, you can select 'mouse' - and it'll reconfigure and act as a mouse. |
| 18:10.16 | Dave | Want me to time it for you? |
| 18:10.27 | tasn23 | Dave, no, just tell me is it |
| 18:10.32 | tasn23 | 30 secs |
| 18:10.33 | tasn23 | 1 min |
| 18:10.35 | tasn23 | 2 mins |
| 18:10.38 | tasn23 | or 3 hrs |
| 18:10.39 | tasn23 | :) |
| 18:10.51 | SpeedEvil | First boot of all images is usually slower |
| 18:11.03 | Dave | a minute about on the gta02 |
| 18:11.07 | tasn23 | SpeedEvil, i figured that out... |
| 18:11.19 | Dave | or two at most, on the device itself |
| 18:11.21 | Dave | :) |
| 18:11.27 | tasn23 | Dave, it's ok, not that bad. my nokia boots in about this amount of time |
| 18:11.40 | Dave | Ah, really? Okay cool :) |
| 18:11.50 | tasn23 | Dave, i was reffering to the 1 minute... |
| 18:11.54 | Dave | right |
| 18:12.02 | Dave | well, sixty seconds IS a while :) |
| 18:12.08 | tasn23 | think about that you don't really shut off your phone too ,uch during the dat... |
| 18:12.13 | Dave | right! |
| 18:12.13 | tasn23 | day* |
| 18:12.17 | Dave | that's the thing |
| 18:12.25 | tasn23 | i know, i was just wondering :) |
| 18:12.29 | Dave | and the nice feature is you can selectively turn off and on all kinds of things on the gta02 :D |
| 18:12.33 | Dave | plus the other apm stuff |
| 18:12.41 | tasn23 | Dave, i know... |
| 18:12.41 | Dave | It'll get better later, surely. |
| 18:12.50 | Dave | There's still a few quirks in the interface. :P |
| 18:12.52 | Dave | haha |
| 18:13.06 | Dave | Unintentional ones, I might add. |
| 18:13.19 | tasn23 | wow! i got the tray icons, is it possible that it finally loaded?! (still getting the please wait image though) |
| 18:13.30 | Dave | oh yes |
| 18:13.32 | Dave | wait more :) |
| 18:13.32 | tasn23 | it's up! :) |
| 18:13.36 | Dave | it's coming |
| 18:13.38 | Dave | :p |
| 18:13.42 | *** join/#openmoko lzy-- (n=lzy@59-126-117-54.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 18:14.29 | tasn23 | wow it is slow. (i guess that's because of this old computer, but still) |
| 18:14.45 | SpeedEvil | TAsnn: what CPU have you? |
| 18:15.08 | tasn23 | i already said p3, don't know what clock, though i guess 600- |
| 18:15.27 | tasn23 | wow, the open moko looks very nice |
| 18:15.33 | tasn23 | (the non qtopia) |
| 18:16.00 | tedo | tasn23: could you post a screenshot? |
| 18:16.04 | tasn23 | how do i switch between open apps? |
| 18:16.11 | SpeedEvil | I wonder what'd have happened if it had been continually developed since Feb. |
| 18:16.17 | tasn23 | tedo, sure thing, what part do you want to see? |
| 18:16.29 | tasn23 | SpeedEvil, why wasn't it? |
| 18:16.33 | SpeedEvil | TAsnn: top-left - there is a 'home' or 'your-network' - click that |
| 18:16.40 | SpeedEvil | TAsnn: ASU |
| 18:16.48 | tasn23 | SpeedEvil, i know |
| 18:16.55 | tasn23 | i meant why did they move to asu? |
| 18:16.57 | tedo | tasn23: great, thx. home screen and stuff u like. |
| 18:17.01 | SpeedEvil | TAsnn: Who knows. |
| 18:17.11 | tasn23 | weird ppl ;0 |
| 18:18.00 | jzoef | actually 'kobodeluxe' is completely fast enough on qemu :) |
| 18:18.13 | tasn23 | tedo, you can get them online and in youtube, but im taking some pics anyway :) |
| 18:18.33 | tasn23 | looks really promising,i really ought to buy one! |
| 18:19.29 | tasn23 | SpeedEvil, how do i close the calc for instance? |
| 18:20.11 | goodwill | ok so the latest image looks better, but it seems nothing workd |
| 18:20.13 | goodwill | works |
| 18:20.24 | abraxa_ | tasn23: Using the GTK+ image? |
| 18:20.26 | jzoef | upper left corner (Calculator) and then click Home |
| 18:20.33 | tasn23 | abraxa_, |
| 18:20.42 | tasn23 | jzoef, that doesn't close it, it's still running |
| 18:20.49 | tasn23 | that just to switch open apps... |
| 18:20.55 | abraxa_ | tasn23: You can close apps by pressing the power key |
| 18:21.07 | abraxa_ | well... button |
| 18:21.12 | tasn23 | which is enter or space in the emulation? |
| 18:21.26 | abraxa_ | I dunno, sorry :) |
| 18:21.28 | tasn23 | what each does anyway? |
| 18:21.34 | tasn23 | what does aux do? |
| 18:21.38 | tasn23 | open dialer? |
| 18:21.45 | tasn23 | or on screen kb? |
| 18:21.58 | tasn23 | (it's slow as hell here, can't figure it out myself) |
| 18:22.10 | abraxa_ | I forgot... |
| 18:22.16 | abraxa_ | Been a while since I used 2007.2 |
| 18:22.21 | tasn23 | :) |
| 18:22.28 | tasn23 | what are you using now? ugly qtopia? |
| 18:22.44 | abraxa_ | pyneo |
| 18:22.49 | tasn23 | what's that? |
| 18:22.52 | tasn23 | btw, neti |
| 18:22.53 | abraxa_ | aka the "underground" image |
| 18:23.02 | tasn23 | neither of the close the calc : |
| 18:23.32 | SpeedEvil | click the word at the top-left |
| 18:23.37 | tasn23 | did so |
| 18:23.41 | SpeedEvil | this then brings you back to home |
| 18:23.53 | tasn23 | SpeedEvil, but that keeps the apps open |
| 18:24.05 | SpeedEvil | then you can select the bottom-right icon to view/manipulate open tasks |
| 18:24.31 | tasn23 | no way to close directly? |
| 18:24.38 | tasn23 | weird. |
| 18:24.58 | goodwill | tasn23: for that you use trashcan |
| 18:25.10 | tasn23 | in that menu |
| 18:25.15 | abraxa_ | tasn23: On the device it works with the power button - dunno why it doesn't under qemu |
| 18:25.21 | tasn23 | but not directly from the app itself, how weird. |
| 18:25.57 | Dave | :) |
| 18:26.14 | tasn23 | Dave, what image are you using? |
| 18:26.14 | goodwill | because the space bar and Enter which are originally designate as spacebar and aux are now considered an actual spacebar and aux |
| 18:26.56 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@pdpc/supporter/active/bluelightning) |
| 18:27.28 | goodwill | ok nothing works in the latest qutopia image |
| 18:27.41 | tasn23 | goodwill, same thing happend to me. |
| 18:28.03 | goodwill | tasn23: you click and click and nothing right? |
| 18:28.10 | tasn23 | btw does the freerunner has a speaker for the phone calls? |
| 18:28.11 | goodwill | tasn23: all I get is the original screen |
| 18:28.17 | tasn23 | goodwill, yeah, same here. |
| 18:28.22 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kW@unaffiliated/kw) |
| 18:28.38 | tasn23 | tedo, still here? |
| 18:28.45 | goodwill | well they are automatically built snepshots |
| 18:28.50 | goodwill | so no big surprize there |
| 18:28.55 | tedo | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:29.07 | tasn23 | where do you want me to upload to? |
| 18:29.35 | tasn23 | btw, does the browser render pages like a phone or like a pc? |
| 18:29.58 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 18:29.58 | tedo | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:30.02 | tasn23 | sec |
| 18:30.43 | *** join/#openmoko arndt (n=arndt@port-92-196-15-217.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 18:31.27 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@62.123.180.130) |
| 18:32.44 | tasn23 | tedo, as i said it is slow here :) |
| 18:33.10 | tasn23 | im taking a picture of the contacts menu and the dialer, and then you will have it. |
| 18:33.23 | tedo | tasn23: no hurry |
| 18:33.30 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:34.06 | *** join/#openmoko crowbarate (n=jon@59.161.2.154) |
| 18:34.26 | tasn23 | is there a way to use a qwerty for the adding of contacts? |
| 18:35.32 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rcc890fb20e5b 10/odeviced/src/plugins/rtc/ (rtc.c rtc.h rtc.vala): Add GetWakeupTime using ioctl, segfaults..need to FIX |
| 18:35.33 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r26d461071f8a 10/odeviced/src/plugins/input/ (input.c input.h): Preliminary Input plugin. |
| 18:37.45 | tasn23 | tedo, uploading :) |
| 18:37.56 | *** part/#openmoko crowbarate (n=jon@59.161.2.154) |
| 18:39.58 | tasn23 | weird, wont let me to batch upload |
| 18:40.05 | tasn23 | wel here there are 1 by 1... |
| 18:40.23 | tasn23 | http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/7487/screenshotqemuqk8.png |
| 18:40.30 | tedo | tasn23: thank you |
| 18:40.58 | tasn23 | is still uploading |
| 18:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-152-233.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:41.28 | tasn23 | http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/2522/screenshotqemu1is8.png |
| 18:42.47 | tasn23 | http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2065/screenshotqemu2hn8.png |
| 18:43.41 | tasn23 | http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5493/screenshotqemu3oz0.png |
| 18:43.55 | goodwill | tasn23: which image is that? |
| 18:44.02 | tasn23 | http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/483/screenshotqemu4oc4.png |
| 18:44.11 | tasn23 | goodwill, openmoko which kevin reviewd |
| 18:44.42 | Tronic | The Gnome desktop calculator would be nicer. |
| 18:44.49 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-218-127-11.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:44.57 | goodwill | tasn23: how did you flash it onto qemu? replace the images/openmoko and did make qemu? |
| 18:45.00 | *** part/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e181161022.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:45.07 | tasn23 | no |
| 18:45.18 | tasn23 | make flash-images-official |
| 18:45.24 | tasn23 | or what ever that name is |
| 18:45.32 | tasn23 | not sure what is the name |
| 18:45.52 | goodwill | weird I got a different set when I did that |
| 18:45.56 | tasn23 | http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2923/screenshotqemu6cw8.png |
| 18:46.05 | tasn23 | http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8674/screenshotqemu5wj4.png |
| 18:46.08 | tasn23 | that's it :) |
| 18:46.12 | tasn23 | what do you mean diffrent set? |
| 18:46.16 | goodwill | OM really got to cut out the orange stuff |
| 18:46.29 | tedo | tasn23: thanks for the uploads. That is the preinstalled on the freerunner? |
| 18:46.41 | tasn23 | tedo, i think so, not sure. |
| 18:46.42 | goodwill | tasn23: I think mine downloaded from like the back up site...its looks different |
| 18:46.56 | tasn23 | (im still here, using tasnn, cya from this comp) |
| 18:47.27 | TAsnn | hey there. |
| 18:52.00 | *** join/#openmoko roterguru (n=chatzill@p5B16007C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:52.58 | roterguru | hi |
| 18:53.23 | roterguru | did someone get a vid working on freerunner with acceptable framerate? |
| 18:53.49 | goodwill | TAsnn: http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/1337/om1px4.png |
| 18:53.55 | goodwill | TAsnn: thats what I get |
| 18:54.36 | TAsnn | abraxa_, do you have pics and reviews on pyneo? |
| 18:55.01 | mjr | roterguru, http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/ |
| 18:55.02 | abraxa_ | roterguru: http://unadventure.wordpress.com/2008/06/08/accelerating-in-my-pocket/ |
| 18:55.05 | abraxa_ | lol mjr |
| 18:55.06 | TAsnn | goodwill, that's what i got earlier... |
| 18:55.33 | goodwill | TAsnn: and then what happened? |
| 18:55.42 | TAsnn | goodwill, nothing worked |
| 18:55.50 | TAsnn | so i flashed the gtk... |
| 18:56.10 | *** join/#openmoko fenfir (n=fenfir@ppp-70-254-46-55.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) |
| 18:56.28 | abraxa_ | TAsnn: I'm not sure about a review. You can check http://neo1973-germany.de and http://www.vanille-media.de/images/Fosdem2008-Neo1973-high.m4v if you want to have a look |
| 18:56.40 | TAsnn | abraxa_, i am. |
| 18:56.42 | TAsnn | thanks. |
| 18:57.32 | TAsnn | abraxa_, oh, it's the gtk phone with a lot of python apps instead of the regular ones? |
| 18:57.38 | goodwill | TAsnn: how did you flash the gtk? |
| 18:57.47 | TAsnn | told yeah |
| 18:58.00 | abraxa_ | TAsnn: No GTK involved, it's all EFL |
| 18:58.08 | TAsnn | moved the openmoko dir to a backup dir |
| 18:58.14 | roterguru | how far are we from 640Ã480 at full frame-rate vids? |
| 18:58.15 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 18:58.15 | TAsnn | created a new openmoko dir |
| 18:58.18 | TAsnn | put the images in |
| 18:58.24 | abraxa_ | roterguru: As far as you can get. |
| 18:58.41 | TAsnn | and did that make flash official thingy |
| 18:58.46 | TAsnn | abraxa_, what's efl? |
| 18:58.59 | goodwill | TAsnn: you replaced the files in openmoko/images right? |
| 18:59.09 | *** join/#openmoko sudharsh_ (n=sudharsh@59.92.97.61) |
| 18:59.21 | goodwill | TAsnn: enlightment library |
| 18:59.24 | cga | abraxa_, how to get an efl interface to moko? |
| 18:59.26 | roterguru | are 200h standby time realistic with software improvements? |
| 18:59.34 | TAsnn | goodwill, yeah i have. |
| 18:59.43 | TAsnn | and then did the flash official |
| 18:59.46 | SpeedEvil | robtaylor: that's at teh edge of the likely |
| 18:59.50 | goodwill | TAsnn: and you renamed the images accordingly? |
| 18:59.50 | SpeedEvil | roter: |
| 18:59.56 | TAsnn | goodwill, no. |
| 19:00.01 | abraxa_ | TAsnn: EFL = Enlightenment Foundation Libraries; they're most popular for being used by the e17 window manager |
| 19:00.05 | goodwill | TAsnn: or symlinked them? |
| 19:00.08 | TAsnn | listen carefully |
| 19:00.16 | TAsnn | abraxa_, oh, i heard about that. |
| 19:00.18 | SpeedEvil | roterguru: if everything is as understood, it should work OK. |
| 19:00.28 | *** part/#openmoko ohin (n=opera@zli1-v-1-166.static.adsl.vol.cz) |
| 19:00.30 | TAsnn | goodwill, |
| 19:00.38 | TAsnn | move away the openmoko dir |
| 19:00.43 | TAsnn | from the images dir |
| 19:00.50 | TAsnn | create a new openmoko dir |
| 19:00.51 | TAsnn | there |
| 19:01.01 | TAsnn | and put the 3 images you downloaded |
| 19:01.13 | abraxa_ | cga: If you want EFL on the Neo/FR, you can use either an underground, FSO or ASU image |
| 19:01.16 | TAsnn | then |
| 19:01.22 | TAsnn | flash |
| 19:01.29 | cga | abraxa_, ok gonna try that when i get fr delivered |
| 19:01.33 | cga | thanks |
| 19:01.36 | goodwill | TAsnn: I have been doing that...just wanted your step by step from you, in case I was doing it the weird way |
| 19:01.51 | goodwill | TAsnn: no reason to be mean |
| 19:01.58 | TAsnn | goodwill, i am not mean :) |
| 19:02.06 | TAsnn | just not used to dvorak yet |
| 19:02.11 | goodwill | :-P |
| 19:02.19 | TAsnn | and typing is still frustrating for me ;) |
| 19:02.22 | cga | abraxa_, have you got any screenie o video? |
| 19:02.40 | abraxa_ | cga: Of what in particular? |
| 19:02.58 | TAsnn | cga, he just gave a link... |
| 19:02.59 | cga | well the main screen as a starter would be good =) |
| 19:03.20 | goodwill | TAsnn: been there |
| 19:03.20 | cga | the wordpress one? |
| 19:03.26 | TAsnn | cga, and a vid. |
| 19:03.33 | cga | i lost it |
| 19:03.40 | TAsnn | look up... |
| 19:04.05 | TAsnn | <abraxa_> TAsnn: I'm not sure about a review. You can check http://neo1973-germany.de and http://www.vanille-media.de/images/Fosdem2008-Neo1973-high.m4v if you want to have a look |
| 19:04.13 | cga | thanks |
| 19:04.26 | abraxa_ | cga: http://www.vanille-media.de/images/Fosdem2008-Neo1973-high.m4v (underground), http://downloads.openmoko.org/framework/milestone1/FrameworkMilestone1.m4v (FSO) and there's a video of ASU somewhere around, too |
| 19:04.40 | cga | cool thanks |
| 19:05.24 | *** join/#openmoko _ferric (n=adityach@user-12ld81j.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 19:05.34 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@156.Red-79-152-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:06.02 | *** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl) |
| 19:06.07 | abraxa_ | http://youtube.com/watch?v=3ISHrtuQuGM <~ ASU |
| 19:08.34 | sudharsh_ | there is a flash mockup of ASU as well |
| 19:08.49 | roterguru | does AGPS need phone network and costs minutes? |
| 19:08.58 | Sup3rkiddo | nope it doesnt |
| 19:09.13 | TAsnn | roterguru, yeah. |
| 19:09.18 | TAsnn | but it's not a must. |
| 19:09.24 | Sup3rkiddo | oh! |
| 19:09.26 | Sup3rkiddo | my bad |
| 19:09.27 | Sup3rkiddo | sorry |
| 19:09.35 | *** join/#openmoko samgee (n=samgee@172.190-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:09.37 | TAsnn | i think it can use wifi though. |
| 19:09.39 | mjr | If you can get assist data from the network it'll help to get a fix sooner. Has nothing to do with these arcane "minutes" you speak of. |
| 19:09.52 | mjr | any network |
| 19:10.04 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e181161022.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:10.34 | cga | couldn't it just work like a tomtom?? no phone needed (just guessing, i don't know much about it) |
| 19:10.36 | TAsnn | mjr, not minutes |
| 19:10.51 | TAsnn | you need a connection at the begining |
| 19:11.01 | TAsnn | (to the internet using minutes) |
| 19:11.14 | TAsnn | and then if you loose the signal it will connect again |
| 19:11.18 | TAsnn | and so froth |
| 19:11.19 | mjr | cga, we just said you don't need a phone. |
| 19:11.21 | roterguru | so you don't pay for AGPS? |
| 19:11.39 | *** join/#openmoko smhar (n=Home@193.188.117.67) |
| 19:11.45 | smhar | greetings |
| 19:12.19 | *** join/#openmoko methril|laptop (n=methril@53.73.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 19:12.35 | methril|laptop | afternoon :D |
| 19:12.38 | mjr | TAsnn, one shouldn't think "minutes" figure into transferring data, though of course they might... |
| 19:12.39 | TAsnn | roterguru, from what i know you do pay for agps, i may be wrong though. (it's just for the fix, if you don't loose gps signal it won't use agps more than once) |
| 19:13.04 | TAsnn | mjr, that is correct it's a matter of seconds and few bytes |
| 19:13.12 | TAsnn | (if i remember correctly) |
| 19:13.18 | roterguru | ok, thx |
| 19:13.36 | abraxa_ | cga: GPS works without phone connection - they're talking about AGPS, which uses the phone carrier to give more precise information |
| 19:13.40 | mjr | TAsnn, I mean the operators don't usually try to make the tenuous connection between data transfer and minutes, or do they where you come from? |
| 19:14.03 | TAsnn | mjr, oh of course not. |
| 19:14.21 | smhar | I have a basic question, will the default system and app in freerunner allow me to sync the contacts etc with my linux system? |
| 19:14.27 | mjr | anyway, I actually don't know if the requisite assist information is freely available as such; how is it? |
| 19:15.12 | TAsnn | what is fso? another fork like asu? |
| 19:15.25 | abraxa_ | TAsnn: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ |
| 19:15.25 | methril|laptop | freesmartpohone |
| 19:15.35 | fenfir | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework |
| 19:15.38 | TAsnn | abraxa_, fair enough :) |
| 19:15.45 | methril|laptop | abraxa_ reaaly nice article |
| 19:15.51 | methril|laptop | i just finish to read it |
| 19:16.00 | mjr | yeah that does clarify stuff |
| 19:16.01 | abraxa_ | methril|laptop: Yeah, he sums it up well. |
| 19:16.46 | methril|laptop | but it's interesting that shows the openess |
| 19:16.52 | abraxa_ | smhar: The default image is 2007.2 which uses the evolution data server, so in theory the answer is yes. In the long run the answer definitely will be yes for other software stacks also but that'll take some time. |
| 19:17.22 | TAsnn | abraxa_, it's oss it can be easily adjusted anyway... |
| 19:17.28 | smhar | abraxa_, great :-) |
| 19:18.27 | smhar | what about my current huge address book in the crapy nokia 9300i communictor? is it possible to easily transfer them to FR? |
| 19:19.16 | *** join/#openmoko Tig| (n=tigger@82.153.215.237) |
| 19:19.30 | Tig| | 'ning all :) |
| 19:20.19 | TAsnn | smhar, my bet is, that if you can transfer it to a linux box, you can transfer it to a moko. |
| 19:20.21 | TAsnn | cya, gn. |
| 19:20.28 | Tig| | quick question has anyone managed to get ScaredyCat's images working on a freerunner? |
| 19:20.44 | smhar | wow.. i just discovered this page.. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Look_%26_Feel . not only OM is Free and working which whould be enough for me, it also look good |
| 19:20.48 | abraxa_ | Tig|: What image in particular? ScaredyCat has lots. |
| 19:21.08 | abraxa_ | smhar: That page is horribly outdated :) |
| 19:21.16 | mwester | I don't think *ANY* images work on the freerunner at this point; mine hasn't been useful for over a week. |
| 19:21.44 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto_ (n=guest@adsl-68-124-184-167.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 19:22.00 | Tig| | well I managed to get the Openmoko-scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080625-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2' running but it bitched like hell on boot and was unuably slow but seemed to have lots of lovely things on there :) |
| 19:22.02 | mwester | The FSO image is the most stable one at this point; the ASU image is a study in bleeding edge. |
| 19:22.40 | mwester | And I hear that it's best not to attempt any of them on the SD card at this time, so no dual-images yet either. |
| 19:22.41 | smhar | mwester, we can always keep the working image installed and try the other images using external devices, right? |
| 19:22.45 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@242.84-48-176.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:22.55 | Tig| | mwester: the snapshot from the 25th seems to be alright I have been running that the last few days with only a few quirks |
| 19:23.29 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:23.48 | mwester | I was out of town for business this week, so I didn't get a chance to try any mid-week images. Maybe I'll roll back to the 25th and see what happens. |
| 19:23.51 | smhar | I WANT TO HOLD THE FREERUNNER IN MY HANDS QUICKLY |
| 19:23.58 | smhar | shouting was intended :-) |
| 19:24.00 | abraxa_ | Tig|: Well, it says gta01 in the file name, so I doubt it'll run on a freerunner |
| 19:24.24 | Tig| | abraxa_: that is what I feared :( |
| 19:24.41 | abraxa_ | smhar: You can boot from the internal microSD card if you want, so the flash memory won't be touched. |
| 19:26.21 | smhar | I can't wait to get my hands on it. I would love to have it with me even if it means it will ot be functional untill August, when ASU is available |
| 19:26.52 | smhar | any idea when the openmoko will start oferring it? even as a pre order? |
| 19:27.17 | Tig| | last I heard it was still sounding like 4th july |
| 19:27.34 | Tig| | or around then but no dates have been anounced |
| 19:27.50 | Tig| | but some resellers are shipping/taking orders already |
| 19:27.57 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@62.123.180.130) |
| 19:28.06 | smhar | so no pre orders from OM |
| 19:28.08 | abraxa_ | Sounds likely as the German distributors are receiving shipments from China already |
| 19:28.30 | Tig| | abraxa_: yep, the UK has already had a batch (he says stroking his freerunner :) ) |
| 19:28.39 | abraxa_ | hehe nice |
| 19:29.05 | malik1972 | http://www.fedex.com/Tracking?tracknumbers=8639+9990+2909 |
| 19:29.22 | smhar | I tried ordering from the german didtributor listed but my country is not in the list :-( |
| 19:29.43 | Tig| | where are you? |
| 19:29.59 | abraxa_ | Tig|: Since you have a freerunner, why didn't you flash the gta02 image from ScaredyCat's repo? |
| 19:30.09 | Tig| | eh? where is that? |
| 19:30.15 | abraxa_ | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/Openmoko-scaredycat-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080507-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 19:30.22 | smhar | Bahrain, Near Qatar and Saudi Arabia |
| 19:30.36 | Tig| | abraxa_: I must be going blind |
| 19:30.44 | abraxa_ | ;) |
| 19:30.48 | Tig| | abraxa_: thanks for that :) :) :) |
| 19:30.52 | abraxa_ | no prob |
| 19:32.48 | Tig| | abraxa_: good grief I am a spanner, I know why I missed it, I was ordering the list by date :/ |
| 19:33.08 | Tig| | another reflash coming up :) |
| 19:33.43 | abraxa_ | Tig|: The list is a little messy indeed, unfortunately |
| 19:33.53 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 19:35.06 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r2a5e765af69e 10/odeviced/src/plugins/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Fix compiler warnings |
| 19:35.07 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rddbcf2a5eabd 10/odeviced/src/plugins/input/ (input.c input.vala): add plugin init function for input plugin |
| 19:36.53 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 19:36.58 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r5c5e9026918b 10/odeviced/ (etc/odeviced.conf src/plugins/input/input.plugin): Fix to the input plugin keyfile |
| 19:37.16 | smhar | I am no pro programmer but I have some Delphi (windows) experience, what languages can I use to develop for the freerunner? |
| 19:37.36 | mjr | pretty much anything but delphi |
| 19:37.44 | Sonicadvance1 | xD |
| 19:37.48 | smhar | :-) |
| 19:39.15 | goodwill | heheeh |
| 19:39.24 | goodwill | smhar: python is a good one |
| 19:39.29 | smhar | I am currently learning HTML/PHP/CSS for web development of my personal site, will that be usefull |
| 19:39.47 | mjr | well, whilst you could leverage php on the neo, I wouldn't really recommend it |
| 19:39.51 | smhar | python will be next on my big To Do List |
| 19:40.08 | mjr | python is good for non-performance-critical stuff |
| 19:40.26 | mjr | C/Vala perhaps for more tight things |
| 19:40.50 | smhar | what is Valva? |
| 19:41.03 | mjr | C's bastard cousin C++ of course also, but ... |
| 19:41.03 | smhar | s/valva/vala |
| 19:41.40 | mjr | http://live.gnome.org/Vala - just mentioned it because got reminded that the freesmartphone.org stack seems to be using it at least a bit :] |
| 19:45.17 | smhar | so Vala is a gnome language, but the current development trend in OM is QT! |
| 19:45.39 | mjr | not really |
| 19:45.55 | goodwill | smhar: thats just one of the interfaces |
| 19:46.00 | mjr | read http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ |
| 19:46.01 | Tig| | meh, OM is not *going* qt |
| 19:46.12 | Tig| | mjr: I was just finding that link :) |
| 19:46.15 | goodwill | how do I do Ctrl-C in terminal in OM |
| 19:46.31 | Tig| | qt will be available the same as GTK and E |
| 19:47.25 | mwester | The OM QT thing stinks of Marketing and management mis-expectations; I think anyone who knows anything about technology at OM knows that the QT thing is just a sad and terrible distraction that has only the smallest chance of achieving the goal of making the freerunner appear to work as a phone when the hardware ships. |
| 19:47.27 | goodwill | what exactly si freerunner shipping with as default |
| 19:47.37 | mjr | om2007.2 |
| 19:47.44 | Tig| | OM is adopting the qtopia phone suite as it is currently closer to being a stable consumer suite than the home developed GTK suite |
| 19:48.08 | smhar | from my understanding, GTK will be there as it stands today, no much official work will be done on it, but it will be available, while the efforts will be focused on developing based on QT, am I right? |
| 19:48.13 | mwester | Tig|: Correct, but it seems that was an assumption that was not based on facts. |
| 19:48.14 | Tig| | goodwill: It ships with the OM2007.2 the firmware file date is from April this year |
| 19:48.21 | mjr | smhar, no, read the link |
| 19:48.36 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 19:48.45 | smhar | Then I need to read it carefully |
| 19:48.50 | mwester | The Qtopia they are using is an experimental branch that uses X, not the stable Qtopia that's been working on the GTA01 for so many months. |
| 19:48.53 | goodwill | mjr: so stupid question: OM2007 is still being developed or has the development of it stopped in 2007.2 |
| 19:49.54 | Tig| | mwester: that is because as I understand it the qtopia that was running on the GTA01 wrote straight to the framebuffer and was not X based |
| 19:49.55 | mjr | if you mean the 2007.2 suite of apps, they do seem to be on the backburner, though there is some community interest in continuing those / integrating with the framework |
| 19:50.06 | mjr | if you mean the original 2007.1 I don't think anyone's interested in that |
| 19:50.54 | abraxa_ | goodwill: 2007.2 is unmaintained as of now. |
| 19:51.16 | Tig| | mwester: they needed to make it X based explicitly so people can run QT GTK and EFL apps simultaneously |
| 19:51.19 | smhar | what does 'further releases of the ASU' mean? will the official image only be available on August(s) or maybe August(s) and April(s)? |
| 19:51.27 | goodwill | so OM's plan goign forward is to make ASU stable? |
| 19:51.56 | mwester | Tig|: Of course. But that doesn't change the fact that the decision to switch was a very poor choice by management. |
| 19:51.57 | abraxa_ | goodwill: The ASU is just something they made to fill the void between 2007.2 and a usable FSO image |
| 19:52.20 | Tig| | abraxa_: not quite correct as new updates and fixes are being released to the 2007.2 line (hence the daily snapshots on om.com) but the main development drive is now on the ASU as I understand it |
| 19:52.40 | Tig| | and the FSO obviously :) |
| 19:53.30 | goodwill | so basically, FSO is whats is currently the bleeding edge... |
| 19:53.32 | abraxa_ | Tig|: The buildhost builds images daily, changes or not |
| 19:53.57 | abraxa_ | goodwill: Yes, and it's where the bacon is |
| 19:54.22 | goodwill | seems liek a decent plan |
| 19:54.39 | goodwill | provide API, befault defalt apps and let it fly in the OSS |
| 19:56.10 | Tig| | abraxa_: this is true but for example diffing the kernel from 25th and 27th july and they are different :) |
| 19:56.29 | goodwill | Tig|: eh? |
| 19:56.36 | abraxa_ | Tig|: Yeah, but that's the kernel. That's the same for all software stacks :) |
| 19:57.16 | goodwill | has any have much experience with booting from SD |
| 19:57.39 | goodwill | cause I'd preffer to do writes to an SD card which I can replace rather tehn build in flash |
| 19:57.45 | goodwill | make it easier for all kinds of things |
| 19:58.02 | mwester | SD boots don't currently work. |
| 19:58.11 | mwester | (fail on resume) |
| 19:58.29 | Tig| | hahahahaha I seem to have something else to thank ScaredyCat for :) :) :) when his image loads he has replaced the startup sound with him meowing :) the dog just jumped up ran up to the window and got very disturbed and then started looking for the cat :) :) :) |
| 19:58.51 | goodwill | Tig|: ok thats a little sad |
| 19:59.01 | Tig| | but it was very funny here :) |
| 19:59.12 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 19:59.21 | abraxa_ | ...is that going to happen every time you boot up the Neo now? ;) |
| 19:59.42 | Tig| | hopefully :) |
| 19:59.57 | Tig| | now plans to reboot often :) |
| 20:02.59 | goodwill | ok so for an ssh connection to qemu I need usb gadgets it seems |
| 20:04.57 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@194-63.dsl.iskon.hr) |
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| 20:08.17 | smhar | ok friends,, gtg now, it is past 11pm already.. bye and happy freerunning |
| 20:08.59 | *** join/#openmoko LionKMP (n=lion@catv-5985b8e7.catv.broadband.hu) |
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| 20:32.31 | goodwill | the beauty of a wiki is that I can edit it |
| 20:32.53 | LionKMP | :-o |
| 20:32.56 | Sonicadvance | and then once you're done editing, someone adds penis to it 25 times |
| 20:33.03 | goodwill | hahahah |
| 20:33.14 | goodwill | I actually mean useful editing |
| 20:33.17 | goodwill | but what do I know |
| 20:35.17 | *** join/#openmoko flexd (n=kek@79.160.12.127) |
| 20:38.00 | *** join/#openmoko TeNoVi (n=runegang@157.82-134-47.bkkb.no) |
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| 20:41.15 | Dave | Yes, honestly, there's more bugs to fix in the wiki than there are the phone, as of presently :P |
| 20:41.53 | Dave | Though I would have liked if someone just make a new GTA02 wiki instead, since much of the GTA01 is confusing to users of the Freerunner. |
| 20:41.54 | LionKMP | wish someone could remove outdated info. I spent many days reading reading, and it's more and more confusing :) |
| 20:41.59 | Dave | Right. |
| 20:42.19 | Dave | Basically there might be an **added** note which says, oh hi, btw, you can ignore all of this if you have the freerunner. :P |
| 20:42.37 | LionKMP | I suddenly found a Freerunner hardware page, which was compeltely unrelated to the "Hardware" page itself (so at least I added a link to Freerunner hw) |
| 20:42.38 | Dave | Silliness. |
| 20:42.46 | Dave | hah |
| 20:43.10 | LionKMP | yes, the problem is that gta01 owners still need the old info :( (not the OS info maybe?!) |
| 20:43.41 | LionKMP | additionally there are at least 6 ways to build/run OM, so I tried both (coz not understanding which one to take) |
| 20:43.48 | LionKMP | both = all :-) |
| 20:44.53 | abraxa_ | Dave: Actually, such a note already exists on most outdated wiki pages. |
| 20:45.07 | LionKMP | depends on what you call outdated |
| 20:45.18 | LionKMP | is gta01 outdated? :-p |
| 20:45.45 | balrog-k1n | killed the s3c2442's timer :) |
| 20:46.05 | abraxa_ | LionKMP: I wouldn't say so |
| 20:46.36 | LionKMP | yes, then like on wikipedia, some page-top templates could be added "gta01 only". ? would be useful I think. |
| 20:46.42 | *** part/#openmoko Tik-Tok (n=patrick@hydra.teleo.net) |
| 20:46.49 | LionKMP | wonders why people translates pages like this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines/it |
| 20:47.02 | LionKMP | :-) |
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| 21:00.45 | *** join/#openmoko Datasurfer (n=Datasurf@sub87-230-124-148.he-dsl.de) |
| 21:04.28 | Datasurfer | hi, i have problems with running openmoko in qemu. I am trying to get a first impression of openmoko. I used the makefile and qemu starts fine and openmoko boots. after that I get a bar with a message "No network". I also see four buttons on the bottom of the screen. If I click on them they flash once. thats it. I am not really sure on how to proceede? I am especially interested in looking at the applications. How do I do that? |
| 21:04.42 | Datasurfer | thanks for your help :-) |
| 21:05.13 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 21:05.29 | *** join/#openmoko affen (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 21:08.15 | *** join/#openmoko ohin (n=opera@zli1-v-1-166.static.adsl.vol.cz) |
| 21:10.12 | Datasurfer | noone? |
| 21:13.45 | goodwill | Datasurfer: its the daily build |
| 21:13.59 | goodwill | Datasurfer: not guaranteed to wrok |
| 21:14.03 | goodwill | work |
| 21:14.35 | goodwill | Datasurfer: go to the image |
| 21:14.47 | goodwill | mv openmoko default |
| 21:14.59 | goodwill | mkdir openmoko |
| 21:15.01 | goodwill | cd openmoko |
| 21:15.13 | goodwill | then get some of the recommended images |
| 21:15.31 | Datasurfer | goodwill: ok, I will try that |
| 21:15.52 | Datasurfer | goodwill: I will report back |
| 21:17.07 | goodwill | like so: wget http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/Openmoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080421-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/uImage-2.6.24+git20080421-r0-om-gta01.bin http://downloads.openmoko.org/recommended/u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.1+svnr4297+gitb29661fc1151077776454288051bc9a488351ce8-r3.bin |
| 21:17.26 | goodwill | then go back up |
| 21:17.34 | goodwill | and run make flash-qemu-official |
| 21:17.51 | Datasurfer | goodwill: the commands that you just gave, is that in the build/qemu directory? |
| 21:17.55 | goodwill | and run it with make run-qemu or make run-qemu-snapshot |
| 21:18.23 | goodwill | its in image directory |
| 21:18.55 | goodwill | from where the makefile is |
| 21:18.59 | goodwill | cd images |
| 21:19.08 | goodwill | then follow what I said |
| 21:19.37 | Datasurfer | thanks a lot. |
| 21:20.10 | goodwill | np |
| 21:20.49 | Datasurfer | someone should put that on the wiki page |
| 21:21.04 | goodwill | yes...some one should ;) |
| 21:21.31 | LionKMP | which wiki page? |
| 21:21.34 | LionKMP | I'll. |
| 21:21.42 | Datasurfer | ;-) I'd do it, if I actually knew what I'am doing |
| 21:22.09 | Datasurfer | LionKMP: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU |
| 21:22.57 | LionKMP | oh, "Redirected from page QEmu" does not actually change the URL (it stays on URL QEmu). |
| 21:22.58 | Datasurfer | openmoko is a topic about which I can say I am totaly noob without feeling ashamed |
| 21:23.24 | LionKMP | Datasurfer: you are something like 4th guy asking that 4 buttons question today. :) |
| 21:23.37 | Datasurfer | LionKMP: Oh, sorry |
| 21:23.46 | LionKMP | np at all :-) |
| 21:23.52 | Datasurfer | Thats the problem with irc, you just ask away |
| 21:24.07 | LionKMP | you can't scroll back if you werent here. |
| 21:24.26 | Datasurfer | Obviously I picked the wrong day for looking at openmoke :-) |
| 21:25.14 | LionKMP | see recommended build's date. you had something like 2 months to pick this "wrong day" since last recommended build ;-) |
| 21:25.36 | Datasurfer | LionKMP: there is an archive of this channel somewhere on the internet i think |
| 21:26.00 | *** join/#openmoko bipak_ (n=bip@p57B84BFD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:26.10 | Datasurfer | hm, the wiki page really should tell people about this |
| 21:26.48 | Datasurfer | I think many people will look at the qemu version first before making the decision to buy a neo. |
| 21:26.50 | goodwill | Datasurfer: no worries, I* am a n00b too..just a few days ahead of you |
| 21:27.15 | LionKMP | too |
| 21:27.45 | Datasurfer | goodwill: good to know, |
| 21:28.12 | goodwill | I just been doign the qemuy thing over and over wiping out previous install so I can learn over and over |
| 21:28.17 | goodwill | different ways of doing it |
| 21:28.40 | goodwill | I am trying to get gta02 going on it |
| 21:28.47 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:28.52 | goodwill | and attempt to install a package or two |
| 21:29.03 | goodwill | bb, got to reboot with new kernel |
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| 21:52.25 | *** part/#openmoko ohin (n=opera@zli1-v-1-166.static.adsl.vol.cz) |
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| 21:55.04 | Datasurfer | LionKMP: FYI: goodwills hints helped and it works now |
| 21:55.52 | Datasurfer | goodwill: I just see you joined back, thanks a lot |
| 21:56.06 | goodwill | Datasurfer: np |
| 21:56.19 | Datasurfer | goodwill: what I am looking at know is gta01? |
| 21:57.36 | goodwill | Datasurfer: well its what ever OM people build right now as the current snapshot of devel I think that was built a whiel back and was recommended |
| 21:57.42 | goodwill | Datasurfer: its nto ASU |
| 21:57.59 | goodwill | Datasurfer: and its built for gta01 |
| 21:58.06 | LionKMP | I added the info to Wiki :) |
| 21:58.27 | Datasurfer | nto? |
| 21:58.37 | LionKMP | not ASU |
| 21:58.50 | Datasurfer | ah, ok |
| 21:58.50 | LionKMP | that 04.21. image is the old GTK one |
| 21:58.59 | goodwill | Datasurfer: I have not managed to get gta02 to run under qemu |
| 21:59.19 | Datasurfer | ok, so what I tried before that did not work, was that the gta02? |
| 21:59.20 | goodwill | LionKMP: thats the Kevin recommended image |
| 21:59.33 | goodwill | Datasurfer: no that was just the dail automated build |
| 21:59.42 | goodwill | so gta01 build are fro neo1973 |
| 21:59.50 | goodwill | gta02 builds are for freerunner |
| 22:00.06 | goodwill | also read this: http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ |
| 22:00.14 | goodwill | that will hep to clear somet higns up |
| 22:00.35 | Datasurfer | ah, ok, so the gta01 and gta02 can look completely the same, they are just build for different hardware, |
| 22:00.53 | *** part/#openmoko ohin (n=opera@zli1-v-1-166.static.adsl.vol.cz) |
| 22:01.09 | LionKMP | gtaXX is hardware name. goodwill: good article title, I am going to read that right now :) |
| 22:01.57 | Dave | exactly :P |
| 22:02.14 | Dave | like asu fso wtf bbq p2p kekek |
| 22:02.20 | LionKMP | :D |
| 22:02.35 | Dave | I'm so glad the images aren't actually named that :P |
| 22:03.33 | Datasurfer | goodwill: I actually remember that I have seen that article in my feedreader earlier this evening, but only read half of it |
| 22:04.23 | goodwill | Datasurfer: so basically gtk+ is not really being actively developed (though some say supported), qutopia is being posrted and pushed because it allows OM to ship a functionaning phone |
| 22:04.35 | goodwill | Datasurfer: and fso is where OM wants to go |
| 22:05.10 | goodwill | Datasurfer: fso is basically a dbus based api |
| 22:05.24 | goodwill | Datasurfer: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework |
| 22:06.18 | goodwill | though I find it confusing that PIM is on the same layer as Networking and Telephony |
| 22:06.36 | LionKMP | that PIM is the database system, not the GUI. |
| 22:07.07 | goodwill | hmmm |
| 22:07.09 | LionKMP | "engine" for PIM |
| 22:07.11 | goodwill | oh I see |
| 22:07.21 | LionKMP | gonna be coded as summer code project 2008. |
| 22:07.28 | goodwill | yeah |
| 22:07.59 | goodwill | its going to be another year before it all sorted out, by which time the hardware shoudl be fairly well tested |
| 22:08.15 | goodwill | if OM manages to survive |
| 22:08.21 | goodwill | which I kinda hope it will |
| 22:08.41 | LionKMP | too |
| 22:09.16 | Datasurfer | so if I bey a freerunner today the software is the one that I am seeing right now in my qemu? |
| 22:09.25 | Datasurfer | s/bey/buy |
| 22:09.49 | LionKMP | http://lion.xaraya.hu/pictures/moko/qemu-moko2.png |
| 22:10.00 | LionKMP | if you see that one, then yes. |
| 22:10.27 | Datasurfer | jupp |
| 22:10.35 | LionKMP | http://lion.xaraya.hu/pictures/moko/qemu-moko1.png this one you can get by trying a daily snapshot ;-) |
| 22:10.39 | abraxa_ | Datasurfer: Where are you from? |
| 22:10.42 | abraxa_ | Which city, I mean |
| 22:11.18 | Datasurfer | abraxa_: Aachen, why? |
| 22:11.59 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes_ (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 22:13.12 | abraxa_ | Datasurfer: Just out of curiosity as there are tons of Neos in Germany |
| 22:14.28 | peepsalot | what is FSO based on? will it use e17 wm like ASU |
| 22:14.42 | peepsalot | s/will/does |
| 22:14.54 | goodwill | Datasurfer: I believe that said you get the 2007.2 with is the original GTK+ one |
| 22:14.58 | LionKMP | is freesmartphone.org started by OpenMoko staff, or did it exist long way before? |
| 22:15.41 | goodwill | peepsalot: fso is more of a api, rather then GUI |
| 22:15.47 | goodwill | though there will be a default gui |
| 22:15.53 | abraxa_ | peepsalot: FSO is focusing on middleware but the GUI apps will use EFL indeed |
| 22:16.25 | goodwill | abraxa_: the default apps will use afl |
| 22:16.25 | abraxa_ | LionKMP: It was started by Openmoko staff (mickeyl, to be exact) |
| 22:16.36 | abraxa_ | afl? |
| 22:16.43 | goodwill | abraxa_: efl |
| 22:16.45 | goodwill | my bad |
| 22:16.48 | abraxa_ | Yeah |
| 22:17.19 | peepsalot | goodwill, i was under the impression that FSO referred to a complete build, including all levels of the software |
| 22:17.43 | goodwill | peepsalot: maybe I am wrong, I know raster was talking about it as an API more |
| 22:17.58 | peepsalot | ok |
| 22:18.16 | peepsalot | they should come up with better names for this stuff |
| 22:18.19 | Datasurfer | goodwill: I actully postponed my plans on buying. I actually like to develope the applications on a phone, but as I have a job that takes a lot of time, this could only be a few pathces. If I buy one, I want to actuallly use it, and at the moment this would rather be just a toy for me, for which I would not have enough time left. |
| 22:18.24 | mjr | rtfhttp://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ |
| 22:18.25 | *** join/#openmoko Aztlek (n=lbernal@190.68.246.155) |
| 22:18.54 | peepsalot | mjr, i did read that, but it's still confusing |
| 22:19.48 | goodwill | Datasurfer: I am gonna get one....I think with fso and python it will go fast in dev |
| 22:21.22 | Datasurfer | goodwill: I really hope so. If I was still a student I would buy one. Now I have to wait until the phone is usable for me. Than I will gladly implement features that I need. |
| 22:22.01 | goodwill | Datasurfer: I have a crappy phone because rather frankly none of the phones do what I want them too anyways |
| 22:22.13 | goodwill | Datasurfer: I was really waiting for this for a while |
| 22:23.23 | jOERG | goodwill: so wait for another 4 weeks! here will be an explosion of fixes and new apps, once the FR is in hands of community :-) |
| 22:24.19 | LionKMP | and once someone fixes the wiki :-p |
| 22:24.33 | LionKMP | I think many people does not know where to start. |
| 22:24.44 | jOERG | goodwill: sorry, was addressed to datasurfer |
| 22:25.48 | goodwill | Datasurfer: I think this is a good time |
| 22:26.32 | jOERG | LionKMP: yes, wki is somewhat confusing. But seems to augment rapidly last days |
| 22:26.39 | goodwill | Datasurfer: you can put it on your resume ;) |
| 22:28.44 | *** join/#openmoko Bumbl (n=Unknown@212-183-113-115.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 22:28.55 | Ainulindale | Datasurfer: false excuse ! I have a job too, and I will gladly enjoy toying with it :-) |
| 22:29.05 | Ainulindale | (meaning the phone, not my job of course) |
| 22:29.22 | LionKMP | :D |
| 22:31.50 | goodwill | though I admit its highly confusing |
| 22:32.00 | goodwill | really need more info |
| 22:33.43 | goodwill | for example I've to manage to install a package |
| 22:33.56 | goodwill | I kinbda knwo how, but no good instructions |
| 22:34.07 | Datasurfer | goodwill: I actually have only little time to work on the phone. I need a phone that works and than I can inplement features that are missing for me. But openmoko still fees "too early" for what I need |
| 22:35.28 | jOERG | datasurfer: it actually IS too early! Your needs sound to me like enduser. this is developer release |
| 22:35.34 | Datasurfer | Ainulindale: Ok, I have a job and important changes in my private life, that are taking most of my free time. And as I have my own company I am pretty much always @work :-) |
| 22:36.03 | goodwill | Datasurfer: I think we were just teasing you |
| 22:36.13 | goodwill | one thing for sure...no more orange |
| 22:36.13 | goodwill | !!! |
| 22:36.25 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 22:36.27 | Datasurfer | jOERG: Yes, it is somewhat between enduser and dev, but more to the enduser end *g* |
| 22:37.14 | jOERG | nope, clearly not. there's NO app yet that might meet the endusers needs |
| 22:38.01 | jOERG | at least phone related app |
| 22:38.04 | Datasurfer | but still this evening has given me a good impression of where openmoko is now. And it is actually not too far away from what I need |
| 22:38.30 | jOERG | sure. I tld you: wait another 4 weeks ;-) |
| 22:38.48 | Datasurfer | 4 weeks? |
| 22:39.18 | jOERG | well that's what I guess it takes to deug the "basic" apps to a "enduser" state |
| 22:39.24 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar_ (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 22:39.40 | jOERG | ...driven by community |
| 22:40.07 | SpeedEvil | The fundamental problem is there is no community cooperation. |
| 22:40.11 | jOERG | first FR actually out in the wild by now |
| 22:40.35 | *** part/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@HSI-KBW-085-216-121-122.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 22:40.36 | SpeedEvil | Large blocks of code get dropped down from the sky with no consultation or notice. |
| 22:41.23 | SpeedEvil | Which tends to inhibit development. |
| 22:41.29 | SpeedEvil | community development. |
| 22:42.08 | jOERG | these large blocks are the stepstones (middleware, dbus) community is going to build their apps upon |
| 22:43.09 | jOERG | see mickeyl's blog on FSO |
| 22:43.56 | jOERG | http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2008/06/28/gtk-asu-fso-tmtla/ |
| 22:44.00 | zedstar | i think speedevil is referring to those projects like spinter, diversity, assasin and other daft names which came out the blue |
| 22:44.40 | Datasurfer | jOERG: was that ASU you were talking about "four weeks" ? |
| 22:45.01 | Ainulindale | jOERG: What do you call "phone related apps" that could "meet the endusers needs" ? |
| 22:45.09 | Ainulindale | Something like... erm... phoning ? :-) |
| 22:45.44 | jOERG | make a call, send and receive sms, contacts... the usual phone jobs |
| 22:45.51 | Ainulindale | Personally, I bought the freerunner more as a toy with phone abilities :-) |
| 22:45.58 | Ainulindale | Yep, but you can make calls right now |
| 22:46.05 | Ainulindale | Or else I've been tricked :-) |
| 22:46.31 | jOERG | yep you *can*, but it's not yet "enduser" |
| 22:46.38 | Ainulindale | Meaning ? |
| 22:46.51 | *** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 22:46.57 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 22:47.16 | jOERG | ah, too many little annoyances. Try "*#61#" for example |
| 22:47.26 | Ainulindale | Which would do ? |
| 22:47.47 | jOERG | I'm sure you're able to find out ;-) |
| 22:47.58 | Ainulindale | Nope, I don't have a freerunner yet :-p |
| 22:48.38 | Ainulindale | And besides, I mostly use my current phone to call and receive SMS, nothing more... Needs which I hope will be fulfilled by the freerunner. |
| 22:48.43 | jOERG | so, simply it doesn't work yet, to best of my knowledge, on any of the dialer apps |
| 22:48.57 | Ainulindale | And what is it supposed to do ? |
| 22:49.15 | jOERG | I'm sure you're able to find out ;-) |
| 22:49.21 | Ainulindale | T-t-t =) |
| 22:50.11 | jOERG | bye |
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| 22:59.06 | *** join/#openmoko goodwill (n=goodwill@netblock-66-245-212-3.dslextreme.com) |
| 22:59.38 | goodwill | ok, my first attempt to do qemu networking using usb gadget as recommended by the wiki locked up my computer |
| 23:00.22 | goodwill | me sad |
| 23:00.54 | Datasurfer | lol |
| 23:02.14 | Datasurfer | goodwill: did you try this: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Simple_network_connection_with_pppd ? |
| 23:04.31 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst_ (n=Horst@e176114087.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:04.40 | _ferric | em. so we still don't know if FR will be able to make calls etc.? |
| 23:04.53 | SpeedEvil | It can make calls now. |
| 23:05.01 | SpeedEvil | With the right image. |
| 23:05.06 | goodwill | Datasurfer: have not tried that |
| 23:05.27 | goodwill | SpeedEvil: which image? |
| 23:06.16 | SpeedEvil | I don't know, I don't have a FR, so have not been keeping up. |
| 23:07.32 | Dave | What were you talking about? :p |
| 23:07.44 | _ferric | SE: the 'right image' being ASU? |
| 23:07.53 | Dave | Oh, and hello Ainulindale :) |
| 23:07.54 | _ferric | SE: have you been able to use your GTA01 to make calls? |
| 23:07.57 | SpeedEvil | No - the right image being builds where it works. |
| 23:08.02 | SpeedEvil | _ferric: yes. |
| 23:08.04 | Dave | Ah. |
| 23:08.09 | _ferric | SE: sweet. |
| 23:08.11 | SpeedEvil | _ferric: I use it as my usual phone |
| 23:08.19 | _ferric | SE: very nice. |
| 23:08.33 | _ferric | SE: what build are you running? rwhitby's MokoMakefile thiny? |
| 23:08.44 | SpeedEvil | Some scaredycat image. |
| 23:08.50 | _ferric | ah |
| 23:09.04 | _ferric | SE: are you going to get an F? |
| 23:09.07 | _ferric | er, a FR? |
| 23:09.12 | rwhitby | mokomakefile can build a number of different images |
| 23:09.16 | goodwill | abbreviation galore |
| 23:09.21 | balrog-k1n | according to everyone one the mailing lists the fso images can make calls reliably |
| 23:09.47 | SpeedEvil | I cannot at this time - due to other commitments. Just spent the small amount I had saved on roof repair materials. |
| 23:09.49 | _ferric | rwhitby: sorry, last time I looked at mokomakefile was over a year ago. |
| 23:10.11 | _ferric | SE: LOL. I agree with your priorities. |
| 23:10.12 | SpeedEvil | Currently on benefits, so not much spare cash. |
| 23:10.34 | balrog-k1n | over a year ago the neo1973 could make calls too |
| 23:10.39 | balrog-k1n | just less reliably |
| 23:11.20 | _ferric | hm, i couldn't get my 01 to make calls at all. but admittedly, i didn't try too hard. |
| 23:11.55 | goodwill | rwhitby: thank you for the makefile. Its the only thing taht kept me sane while I was trying to figure out hwo to do qemu |
| 23:12.25 | Dave | :] |
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| 23:18.47 | goodwill | in case someone is wondering on a 2 core 2.8 processor with downloading it takes and halff hours to compiel the devel-image |
| 23:19.40 | Dave | goodwill, you're building your own image... what did you expect? |
| 23:19.59 | goodwill | Datasurfer: that was just an FYI item |
| 23:20.06 | goodwill | in case someone was planning to do the same |
| 23:20.19 | goodwill | Datasurfer: it was nto a complain |
| 23:20.25 | goodwill | Datasurfer: it builds all the packages |
| 23:20.49 | goodwill | personally I wonder if its necessary to build all the packages |
| 23:20.53 | goodwill | seems like too many |
| 23:22.28 | Datasurfer | goodwill: no of course, I was just thinking this might help you :-) |
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| 23:29.04 | goodwill | the root password is noexistant in qemu |
| 23:29.19 | goodwill | Datasurfer: so using ppd it works |
| 23:29.28 | goodwill | Datasurfer: its a bit dorky, but it works |
| 23:29.49 | goodwill | I can actually use the command line now |
| 23:30.25 | Datasurfer | nice |
| 23:31.29 | goodwill | Datasurfer: thank you |
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