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| 00:59.55 | Dave | Any other freerunner owners around? |
| 01:01.08 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=ahacic@lk.84.20.227.185.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net) |
| 01:04.31 | cesarb | Great, I'm so out of the loop I found out the Freerunner is out by seeing it on lwn.net. I really have to catch-up on the 3000+ email backlog of the community mailing list... |
| 01:06.25 | *** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=ahacic@lk.84.20.227.185.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net) |
| 01:07.26 | *** join/#openmoko baird- (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 01:08.05 | wurp2|away | cesarb: I'm not sure how "out" it is - it wasn't out when lwn.net put the ad up |
| 01:08.12 | wurp2|away | It was "out" to the resellers |
| 01:08.29 | wurp2|away | The first reports here of regular consumers getting freerunners was today |
| 01:09.03 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 01:09.27 | wurp2|away | johnl: The older theme actually has icons for the buttons on the media player :-) |
| 01:10.12 | johnl | wurp2|away, heh yeah. i assumed so. just kinda funny. me bumbling about something as simple as a music player. |
| 01:10.19 | cesarb | wurp2|away: well, it's near enough to "out" then |
| 01:10.35 | johnl | i just installed the latest qtopia packages using opkg, but am wondering how to switch to it |
| 01:10.36 | johnl | or run it |
| 01:11.06 | cesarb | wurp2|away: and I haven't even finished making cpufreq work for everything on gta01 yet... |
| 01:11.49 | johnl | looks like it's confured to start in Xsession.d, so a reboot my coerce it |
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| 01:14.07 | wurp2|away | johnl: Can you even do that? The 2007.2 release isn't compatible with qtopia afiak |
| 01:14.19 | wurp2|away | cesarb: Don't stop just because the Freerunner is out! |
| 01:14.38 | johnl | wurp2|away, gonna see :) |
| 01:14.46 | cesarb | wurp2|away: I won't stop... it's just that I have to play catchup even more :( |
| 01:14.50 | johnl | wurp2|away, the packages were just available. |
| 01:15.10 | cesarb | wurp2|away: (I have some utterly untested cpufreq code for the gta02 already, in fact) |
| 01:15.14 | wurp2|away | I'm not sure how they distinguish (or if) between ASU and 2007.2 release |
| 01:15.24 | wurp2|away | cesarb: I thought I remembered you saying something like that |
| 01:15.35 | wurp2|away | cesarb: Someone should have sent you one :-) |
| 01:16.46 | cesarb | wurp2|away: ASU? |
| 01:16.59 | wurp2|away | april (august?) software update |
| 01:17.05 | wurp2|away | The EFL stuff |
| 01:17.22 | wurp2|away | You *have* been away ;-) |
| 01:17.31 | cesarb | wurp2|away: never heard of that... I'm really out of the loop :P |
| 01:17.54 | wurp2|away | They stopped supporting 2007.2 (I'm pretty sure, anyway) and started working on an "interim" solution so they'd have better sw when the FR went on sale |
| 01:18.10 | wurp2|away | Running Qtopia on X11, so they can mix the Qtopia dialer w/ OM apps |
| 01:18.13 | cesarb | wurp2|away: are they still on 2.6.24 or will I have to rebase again? |
| 01:18.15 | wurp2|away | IMO it's a cluster fuck |
| 01:18.20 | wurp2|away | 2.6.24 |
| 01:18.40 | cesarb | wurp2|away: thanks for the info ;-) |
| 01:18.46 | wurp2|away | yw |
| 01:19.00 | wurp2|away | 2007.2 was badly broken for the last 6 weeks or so |
| 01:19.08 | wurp2|away | This week I've heard it's a lot better |
| 01:19.18 | wurp2|away | but apparently the theme doesn't have the mediaplayer icons in it |
| 01:19.37 | wurp2|away | I had to switch to a ScaredyCat release |
| 01:19.47 | wurp2|away | You should take a look at freesmartphone.org, though |
| 01:19.50 | *** part/#openmoko baird- (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 01:20.03 | wurp2|away | The new architecture (dbus) and zhone sample app look really promising |
| 01:20.25 | wurp2|away | They seem to have stable phone w/ suspend & resume (& stable resume on call) |
| 01:20.48 | *** join/#openmoko NevinBi__ (n=chatzill@125.88.18.26) |
| 01:21.00 | wurp2|away | And apparently the lower level stuff supports muxing & sms with a nice dbus interface |
| 01:21.28 | wurp2|away | I say supports muxing, I'm pretty sure it always runs muxed, so you can start a gprs session whenever and it just gets interrupted if you get a call |
| 01:21.54 | Dave | So is anyone else here running GTA02s? |
| 01:22.41 | wurp2|away | Dave: johnl is |
| 01:22.57 | wurp2|away | Tig| is too, if he's still here |
| 01:23.39 | Dave | Alright. |
| 01:24.09 | Dave | I gather not many others have GTA02s, and I've already got some mysterious questions with the few I'm playing with. |
| 01:24.57 | CIA-45 | openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rcc2e9c6da875 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcdates.inc: up efl srcdate for fixes to alginment usage in scrolledview and other |
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| 01:25.30 | wurp2|away | Dave: Yep, as far as I know end customers only started getting theirs today |
| 01:25.39 | wurp2|away | And I think that's just from 1 or 2 resellers |
| 01:26.27 | raster | mah |
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| 01:26.52 | Dave | Yeah, we got a shipment here early from the manufacturers for testing. |
| 01:27.02 | wurp2|away | cesarb: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework |
| 01:27.13 | johnl | not getting very far with qpe. just lots of quicklaunchers sat doing nothing |
| 01:27.32 | *** join/#openmoko ozzloy (n=ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy) |
| 01:27.35 | raster | yay! qpe! |
| 01:27.39 | Dave | gpsd is being finicky. |
| 01:27.43 | wurp2|away | I'm away again - g'night everyone |
| 01:27.54 | Dave | Any apparently has a couple mysterious new package conflicts. |
| 01:28.02 | Dave | s/Any/and/ |
| 01:28.24 | johnl | raster, reckon I should be able to install the latest gtk daily image, then install the qtopia packages using opkg and have a good time? |
| 01:28.49 | raster | which qtopia packages>? |
| 01:28.53 | raster | the asu x11 ones |
| 01:28.54 | raster | ? |
| 01:29.23 | johnl | there are a bunch listed in the opkg list, from the default repositories |
| 01:29.33 | raster | again - which ones? |
| 01:29.43 | raster | theres full qtopia on qws around |
| 01:29.50 | raster | and ones running on x11 |
| 01:29.52 | johnl | I installed: qtopia-phone-x11 - 4.3.2+git1+8cf4803382bb7f64555143c59c3604ed70d42c5d-r30 - Qtopia OpenSource |
| 01:29.58 | raster | i have no idea what is in the repositories |
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| 01:30.01 | johnl | ahk |
| 01:30.02 | johnl | nm then |
| 01:30.08 | raster | ok thats on x11 |
| 01:30.13 | raster | it wont work (well) with matchbox |
| 01:30.22 | raster | so u'll need a different wm to handle the softmenu for example |
| 01:30.25 | raster | or no wm at all |
| 01:30.35 | raster | if u want it to vaguely work ok |
| 01:30.36 | johnl | ah. i killed off matchbox from the Xinit and just dropped qpe in there, ha. |
| 01:30.49 | johnl | big bodge |
| 01:31.45 | johnl | looks like the packages are actually missing from the repository anyway |
| 01:32.08 | johnl | maybe a local problem. |
| 01:32.12 | johnl | i'm prettttty tired. |
| 01:32.19 | Dave | uggh the qtopia-x11 build is terrible |
| 01:32.32 | johnl | all the freerunner excitement has kept me up |
| 01:32.50 | Dave | oh yeah the new matchbox is such an improvement, the past on the gta02 was unbearable as far as the input modules were concerned. |
| 01:32.57 | Dave | johnl :) |
| 01:33.29 | johnl | right, heh. build of 25th June here and working pretty well |
| 01:33.31 | Dave | Johnl, for the first time I got the GPS working last night at 2AM, and ran down the block squealing with it in hand, as I watched my velocity increase, and my position change :) |
| 01:33.39 | Dave | So I can understand ;) |
| 01:33.41 | johnl | lol |
| 01:33.53 | johnl | it's raining here. i'd kill too many snails. |
| 01:34.02 | Dave | Disappointingly, after many updates this morning, I was unable to get it to function again on the same device today :( |
| 01:34.08 | Dave | johnl, hah! |
| 01:34.12 | *** join/#openmoko fgau_ (n=fgau@pD9539388.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:34.59 | johnl | know a way to get a querty keyboard with gtk image? |
| 01:35.27 | Dave | YES |
| 01:35.36 | Dave | Thankfully, sheesh. |
| 01:35.41 | johnl | Dave, so how come you got a GTA02 btw. they seem to be few and far between |
| 01:35.45 | johnl | oh cool. tell tell plz. |
| 01:36.52 | Dave | Johnl, read up as far as your first question :) |
| 01:37.04 | Dave | I believe I vaguely alluded to that aspect. |
| 01:37.08 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 01:37.26 | Dave | As far as the keyboard is concerned did you see OM wiki page on Switching Keyboards? |
| 01:37.51 | johnl | testing, right. |
| 01:38.03 | johnl | me and tig just bought ours from a UK distributor. arrived this morning. |
| 01:38.04 | Dave | We order a large shipment, and got them first :P |
| 01:38.09 | Dave | ordered |
| 01:38.16 | johnl | no, missed that wiki page. will look now ta. |
| 01:38.25 | Dave | Ah, excellent. |
| 01:38.37 | Dave | Yeah it's SO nice to not be entirely input inhibited. |
| 01:40.06 | Dave | johnl, if you are truly excited, I'll link you to several more resources that may jumpstart your fun-filled night of openmoko'ing :) |
| 01:40.29 | johnl | haha, gfi. though I will have to postpone until tomorrow really |
| 01:40.42 | Dave | Falling asleep? |
| 01:41.09 | Sonicadvance1 | bah |
| 01:41.14 | Sonicadvance1 | No distributers in the US yet |
| 01:41.17 | Dave | heh |
| 01:42.31 | johnl | up in the morning to work. it is 0240 here |
| 01:42.45 | Dave | Yep |
| 01:42.57 | dvarnes | Dave: do we assume you are *not* an unnanounced distributor :-) ? |
| 01:43.17 | Dave | Sorry to disappoint, no I am not, despite my plethora of GTA02s. |
| 01:43.32 | dvarnes | np :-) |
| 01:43.53 | johnl | an archeologist or something then :) |
| 01:44.00 | Dave | Currently testing and developing for OM platform. |
| 01:44.03 | Dave | hah! |
| 01:44.06 | Dave | I read that article :P |
| 01:44.09 | johnl | hehe |
| 01:44.10 | dvarnes | Dave: private / company / institution ? |
| 01:44.15 | johnl | lol |
| 01:44.15 | Dave | EDU |
| 01:44.20 | dvarnes | 'k |
| 01:44.23 | johnl | animal vegetable mineral |
| 01:44.27 | Dave | haha |
| 01:44.30 | dvarnes | lol |
| 01:44.41 | johnl | a/s/l |
| 01:44.42 | Dave | e) All of the above ? |
| 01:45.35 | Dave | At last though I got one of the people I work with to setup a build system in the lab for OM images. |
| 01:45.59 | Dave | So we can roll our own, [less crippled] STABLE builds. :P |
| 01:46.54 | *** join/#openmoko Azalyn (n=junon@bas7-montreal02-1177796885.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:47.31 | Dave | grumbles about default values and boot issues, and reflashes. |
| 01:47.58 | johnl | grumbles about non-working wireless applets |
| 01:48.13 | johnl | taunts cat with stylus laser pointer |
| 01:48.38 | johnl | cat is as unimpressed as me with the stylus |
| 01:49.58 | johnl | can't find this wiki page on keyboard input changing :/ |
| 01:50.07 | johnl | any clues Dave? |
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| 01:54.23 | Dave | johnl: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards |
| 01:54.25 | Dave | :] |
| 01:54.33 | johnl | wtf. |
| 01:54.34 | Dave | It's nice to have a qwerty keyboard :) |
| 01:54.38 | johnl | the wiki search is poo |
| 01:54.55 | Dave | haha, funny because google search for OM's wiki it stellar. |
| 01:54.56 | johnl | thanks |
| 01:54.57 | Dave | ;) |
| 01:55.00 | Dave | yep! |
| 01:55.00 | johnl | lol |
| 01:55.08 | Dave | oh yeah someone yell at the cacao people |
| 01:55.10 | johnl | didn't think of that. told you i was tired. |
| 01:55.23 | Dave | their packages are behind the rest of the community! |
| 01:55.53 | Dave | johnl, after playing with the phones for a couple weeks and trying different images and builds |
| 01:56.34 | Dave | many of the bugs I have found, whether subtle, stupid, or just plain funny has provided some nice aggravation and hilarity. |
| 01:59.32 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=ahacic@lk.84.20.227.185.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net) |
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| 02:02.41 | *** join/#openmoko Railer (n=Railer@S0106001839c24abd.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 02:06.07 | Dave | Hah, well I suppose for the time being I just have the spammed community lists and myself to complain to then, don't I, dvarnes? :) |
| 02:06.58 | johnl | keyboard works!! |
| 02:07.01 | johnl | ta Dave |
| 02:07.05 | johnl | small un though |
| 02:07.28 | Dave | Yeah, I know |
| 02:07.57 | Dave | Did you try swapping orientations? - It would be nicer if it could be temporarily enlarged for a single given field of input at a time :) |
| 02:08.32 | johnl | actually i'm already getting used to it in tiny mode |
| 02:08.33 | johnl | weird. |
| 02:08.44 | johnl | even with my fat fingers |
| 02:09.27 | Dave | hehe |
| 02:09.39 | Dave | You don't like using the nifty composite pen stylus? |
| 02:10.18 | johnl | no. already moaned about that. it weighs more than the phone does. |
| 02:10.24 | Dave | I personally adore it, it's quite a fine pen... that, and without it, input for the touch screen would be far more troublesome. |
| 02:10.28 | Dave | hahaha |
| 02:10.34 | johnl | keyboard doesn't get any bigger in other orientation |
| 02:10.37 | Dave | Oh boo hoo. |
| 02:10.41 | johnl | haha |
| 02:10.51 | Dave | Yeah I know, I was stating wouldn't it make sense and be nice if it did, though? :) |
| 02:11.19 | johnl | heh |
| 02:11.20 | johnl | ok |
| 02:11.22 | johnl | i must go to sleep |
| 02:11.32 | *** join/#openmoko christooss3 (n=ahacic@lk.84.20.227.185.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net) |
| 02:11.33 | Dave | sends johnl SIGTRANQ |
| 02:11.41 | Dave | Goodnight ;) |
| 02:11.42 | dvarnes | Dave: ? |
| 02:11.52 | johnl | ta for help, night all. |
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| 02:12.55 | Sonicadvance1 | haha, SIGTRANQ |
| 02:12.56 | Sonicadvance1 | xD |
| 02:13.08 | *** join/#openmoko lzy-- (n=lzy@59-126-117-54.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 02:13.34 | Dave | huhu |
| 02:14.00 | Dave | Good for putting one or more users to sleep for an unspecified amount of time >:) |
| 02:14.15 | Sonicadvance1 | woo unspecified |
| 02:14.29 | Dave | puts his bag of signals back in his desk drawer. |
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| 02:24.13 | jimk | "Some resellers have shipped Freerunners" does that mean they were shipped their FR's or are they shipping in stock FR's to customers? |
| 02:24.45 | mmontour | to customers. A few people got them today. |
| 02:25.52 | jimk | so how are they for sound quality? |
| 02:26.16 | Dave | rolls his eyes |
| 02:26.31 | jimk | what! |
| 02:27.00 | Dave | My advice: wait a couple months for driver and app support to further first. |
| 02:27.10 | Dave | Generally speaking, with regards to every aspect of the GTA02. |
| 02:28.31 | jimk | well if it works as a phone, i'll get one now and wait for apps and updates |
| 02:28.41 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@124.219.5.210) |
| 02:28.49 | Dave | yep! |
| 02:28.55 | Dave | Then by all means, go for it! |
| 02:29.03 | Dave | By then, you can even test out our apps! |
| 02:29.09 | Dave | Oh snaps, speaking of which... |
| 02:29.12 | Dave | rebuilds |
| 02:29.53 | jimk | at a point one must put his money where his mouth is and support the idea of open source products |
| 02:30.32 | jimk | and they look cool as sh*t! :) |
| 02:31.18 | Dave | haha, I can assure you they do. |
| 02:31.41 | railer | You have one now? |
| 02:31.51 | Dave | I changed my primary development GTA's startup sound and splash screen to QUAD DAMAGE this morning, for kicks, haha |
| 02:32.05 | Dave | railer, yeah. |
| 02:32.26 | Railer | well how do they sound pjhone wise? |
| 02:32.34 | Dave | fine |
| 02:32.50 | Dave | though I almost always use a bluetooth headset, with any of the phones I use. |
| 02:32.52 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@82.201.222.131) |
| 02:33.02 | Railer | ya |
| 02:33.09 | Dave | Though I have tested it, and the sound quality of the phone itself is fine, though of course, varies on a number of things. |
| 02:33.23 | Dave | If you are refering specifically to the quality of the internal speaker, it's alright :] |
| 02:34.00 | Railer | yes, as you said the software will upgrade, but if the hardware sucks, you're SOL |
| 02:34.24 | Dave | no the hardware is so great that there's pretty much no applications for much of it yet |
| 02:34.28 | Dave | :P |
| 02:34.44 | Dave | So this is why people are scrambling with development apps, demos, and whoring repos |
| 02:34.46 | mmontour | Dave: the biggest problem on GTA01 is that the person on the other end of the call would hear an echo of their own voice from the Neo. |
| 02:35.11 | Dave | then again, it hasn't even been officially released to the public yet, is my understanding, so, it somewhat understandable ;) |
| 02:35.21 | Dave | AH YES, the feedback issue, yeah |
| 02:35.22 | mmontour | It seems to vary from call to call - sometimes people report that it sounds fine, other times that it's very annoying |
| 02:35.34 | Dave | mmontour: actually we already had someone test the microphone on the thing |
| 02:35.46 | Dave | I recall that issue now, yes |
| 02:35.51 | Dave | right |
| 02:36.02 | Dave | well are they [one or both] on speaker, or not? |
| 02:36.22 | Dave | also, don't but high power magnets on or near your GTA02 |
| 02:36.28 | Dave | you can take my advice on that, already :P |
| 02:36.38 | Railer | why? |
| 02:36.49 | Railer | what happened? |
| 02:36.56 | Dave | hahaha |
| 02:36.58 | SpeedEvil | It can screw power supplies. |
| 02:37.00 | Dave | fun? :D |
| 02:37.02 | mmontour | I think kdean06 has done the most testing. I don't know if any were speakerphones. In my own experience it's been to another cell phone (mine, and my GF's, both with a bad echo) |
| 02:37.08 | Dave | depending on what you consider amusing or devastating. |
| 02:37.19 | Dave | Hey Speedevil ;) |
| 02:37.40 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:37.44 | SpeedEvil | Fridge magnet. |
| 02:37.50 | Dave | heh yeah |
| 02:37.54 | Dave | weak sauce |
| 02:38.03 | Railer | how the hell could it screw the power supply? |
| 02:38.11 | Dave | apparently our homemade high-gain Wifi antennas have super-duper magnets on the bottoms |
| 02:38.13 | SpeedEvil | SSaturates inductors. |
| 02:38.22 | Dave | kaboom.... zzzzt |
| 02:38.25 | SpeedEvil | Causes explosions. |
| 02:38.30 | Dave | fun, yet disappointing. |
| 02:38.32 | Dave | Right. |
| 02:38.36 | mmontour | Ouch! |
| 02:38.38 | Dave | The loss of a device. :| |
| 02:38.38 | Railer | oh ya i have a 4 magnet combo |
| 02:39.12 | Dave | railer, well I didn't realize it since I rarely move the things, but there's about three or four stuck to each table in our lab :) |
| 02:39.19 | Railer | can hold a satellite dish moded for wifi |
| 02:39.44 | Railer | ok no magnets |
| 02:39.47 | Dave | I was about to set it down, then I sense it drawing quickly towards the phone and I quickly reconsidered my placement :P |
| 02:39.50 | Dave | heehee |
| 02:39.53 | Dave | Railer, absolutely! |
| 02:40.02 | Dave | You nailed my second pet project of the winter :] |
| 02:40.12 | Dave | It's great too |
| 02:40.29 | Railer | I just want to write cribbage and nethack for it |
| 02:40.40 | Dave | but driving around with it on top of your vehicle can attract rather unsavory attention :P |
| 02:40.43 | Dave | haha |
| 02:40.58 | Railer | 2 miles to a source though |
| 02:41.03 | Dave | not a problem! :D |
| 02:41.25 | Railer | 9 bars from a mile away |
| 02:41.25 | Dave | depends on a number of factors, though bumping the gain that's about the range of mine, given line-of-sight. |
| 02:41.57 | Railer | also have external wifi 1 watt |
| 02:42.01 | Dave | hah |
| 02:42.06 | Dave | 1.21JW? |
| 02:42.44 | Railer | whats that? |
| 02:42.50 | Dave | jiggawatts :p |
| 02:43.07 | Dave | a standard unit of amusement in engineering :] |
| 02:43.15 | Sonicadvance1 | hehe |
| 02:43.51 | Railer | couple years of EE back in the 80's |
| 02:44.43 | Railer | know just enough about electronics and rf to be dangerous |
| 02:45.04 | yakischloba | rofl |
| 02:45.46 | Dave | I ready my soldering iron! |
| 02:46.33 | Dave | EE RPG, anyone? |
| 02:46.38 | Railer | went into computers don't do much soldering and more, but got my cordless in the tool box |
| 02:47.56 | Railer | to a EE the world is a RPG, Maguyver everything |
| 02:49.19 | Railer | i need new toy |
| 02:50.02 | Dave | :D |
| 02:50.11 | Railer | too many fanboys with iphones around here |
| 02:50.12 | Dave | Railer, have you considered a GTA02? ;) |
| 02:50.15 | Dave | :P |
| 02:50.18 | Dave | Agreed. |
| 02:50.45 | Dave | Fuck them and their leopard-specific sdk. |
| 02:51.02 | Sonicadvance1 | lol |
| 02:51.12 | Sonicadvance1 | doesn't own an iphone |
| 02:51.26 | Railer | there's only so many times you can say, "Oh you have a iphone, ipod and a mac.... I did know you were Gay?" |
| 02:51.28 | Sonicadvance1 | hell, AT&T doesn't even have a store around here |
| 02:51.57 | Dave | Then again, how many of the local provider stores does AT&T actually own? ;) |
| 02:51.58 | Dave | heh |
| 02:52.05 | Sonicadvance1 | none |
| 02:52.13 | Dave | Where do you live, Albania? |
| 02:52.17 | Sonicadvance1 | Nebraska US |
| 02:52.19 | *** join/#openmoko linuxxr (n=brian@ip70-178-27-23.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 02:52.27 | Dave | oh, alright |
| 02:52.29 | Dave | close enough :P |
| 02:52.33 | Sonicadvance1 | Pretty much |
| 02:52.34 | Dave | yeehaw |
| 02:52.45 | Dave | smells like T-mobile country |
| 02:52.54 | Sonicadvance1 | 3 cell phone providers around here, US cellular, Altell, and Viaero |
| 02:52.56 | Dave | that, and Moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 02:53.03 | Dave | nice :) |
| 02:53.08 | Sonicadvance1 | Viaero being the only GSM provider |
| 02:53.25 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=charlie@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 02:53.28 | *** part/#openmoko charlie137 (n=charlie@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 02:53.36 | Railer | GSM Rogers/Fido |
| 02:53.37 | linuxxr | y so is tmobile a good choice? |
| 02:54.09 | linuxxr | or at&t better? |
| 02:55.05 | linuxxr | why arnt the resellers on the distro map? |
| 02:55.11 | Railer | I just want to get VOIP going, that is where this phone could really shine, once that's possible I know about 100 guys ready to change over |
| 02:55.20 | doc|home | did t-mobile didn't bend over to wiretapping without warrants? |
| 02:55.26 | Dave | sweet :] |
| 02:55.27 | SpeedEvil | You won't. |
| 02:55.32 | Dave | Bring the community to cow country! |
| 02:55.44 | SpeedEvil | VOIP won't work over a 2s latency GPRS link. |
| 02:55.50 | SpeedEvil | Well - it will - but ... |
| 02:55.50 | Dave | heh |
| 02:56.06 | Dave | SpeedEvil, aww, don't shatter the poor boy's dreams so quickly :) |
| 02:56.12 | Railer | yes |
| 02:56.25 | Railer | no wifi g |
| 02:56.32 | SpeedEvil | Well - there is the wackiness of data over voice coded data. |
| 02:56.36 | linuxxr | where are those retailers located? |
| 02:56.44 | SpeedEvil | Which can be done, but is horrible,. |
| 02:56.52 | linuxxr | no usa? |
| 02:57.06 | Railer | not over cell lines over wifi, that should be doable |
| 02:57.07 | linuxxr | still on the boat? |
| 02:57.28 | Dave | fell off the truck? |
| 02:57.35 | Dave | ;) |
| 02:58.02 | Sonicadvance1 | Driver had to take a big dump, so it's 15 days behind |
| 02:58.04 | mmontour | Stuck in customs while Homeland Security installs the remote wiretapping chips :) |
| 02:58.50 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@adsl-69-236-76-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 02:59.07 | rtm | Well, look at the bright side, maybe they'll replace the glamos with the wiretapping chips. |
| 03:00.43 | linuxxr | which resellers have shipped them? |
| 03:00.54 | Dave | mmontour, ACTUALLY |
| 03:01.04 | Dave | You're not half wrong, surprisingly enough ;) |
| 03:01.31 | Dave | grumbles |
| 03:01.34 | linuxxr | thats not the answer we wanted to hear |
| 03:01.38 | Dave | Glad that's over. |
| 03:01.44 | Dave | linuxxr, oh, sorry. |
| 03:02.38 | Dave | You'll be glad to know future shipments will not be held to such scrutiny, or so I have been informed. |
| 03:02.51 | rtm | If you go to the openmoko.com page, and click on the "coming soon", you now get directed to a page asking for a password. Anyone know what's up with that? |
| 03:03.42 | Dave | sweet |
| 03:03.54 | Dave | Looks like they're setting up their servars. |
| 03:04.03 | linuxxr | been there 2 days |
| 03:04.13 | Dave | Darn, blew up opkg again :\ |
| 03:06.44 | linuxxr | 500MHz Samsung S3C2442 system-on-chip (SoC) processor |
| 03:09.41 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
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| 03:11.48 | *** part/#openmoko wukong (n=ben@218.249.75.106) |
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| 03:20.15 | Dave | silly apm bugs |
| 03:20.19 | Dave | teehee |
| 03:21.43 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-84-138.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 03:30.39 | Railer | how many here think freerunner is a bad name? |
| 03:31.04 | summatusmentis | better than Railer >_> |
| 03:32.06 | Railer | Quake Rail Gun Master = Railer |
| 03:32.29 | Railer | Free I get, Runner? is it a shoe as well? |
| 03:33.12 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 03:34.35 | rtm | The name neo1973 had definate charm. It had a great "I care nothing for fashion" sensibility to it. |
| 03:36.02 | Railer | do a google image search on free runner see what you get, those people who like to run up things for no reason. could have gone with TRON1982 |
| 03:37.22 | rtm | u-booter! |
| 03:39.26 | rtm | J-tagger! |
| 03:40.13 | Railer | |Th |
| 03:40.18 | Railer | The Oval |
| 03:40.54 | kduboi1 | i'm waiting for someone to make a phone and call it 'the brick'... :D |
| 03:41.01 | *** join/#openmoko opendeep (n=pradeep@61.16.248.242) |
| 03:41.46 | *** join/#openmoko |R (n=bob@dsl-67-55-19-153.acanac.net) |
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| 03:42.59 | Railer | I had "the brick" |
| 03:43.40 | Railer | http://www.oaktreeent.com/web_photos/Telephones/SouthWestern_Bell_Motorola_Brick_Cell_phone_web.jpg |
| 03:44.12 | Railer | but in the openmoko I still say call it the tron and here is the mascot: |
| 03:44.24 | Railer | http://www.geekitude.com/Pictures/Linucon2004/Ex45TronUpCloseRot.jpg |
| 03:44.58 | rtm | Oh dear god... |
| 03:46.36 | Railer | come on that dude is classic |
| 03:46.50 | rtm | One can only hope that PCB eventually has plate through holes. |
| 03:49.59 | *** join/#openmoko batti (n=batti@blfd-4db0ed55.pool.einsundeins.de) |
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| 04:58.16 | ColdFyre | has anyone heard about some timeframe for the release of the freerunner? |
| 04:59.37 | Dave | "Summer" :) |
| 04:59.47 | doc|home | ColdFyre: very early next month most likely, first few days |
| 05:00.22 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@90-227-33-55-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 05:00.24 | ColdFyre | rejoices |
| 05:02.30 | wurp2|away | Some people are getting Freerunners now |
| 05:02.52 | wurp2|away | A UK reseller shipped some out; johnl and Tig| here got theirs today |
| 05:03.03 | wurp2|away | Hence the topic |
| 05:03.54 | ColdFyre | yeah, i'm looking at thier site now |
| 05:04.56 | ColdFyre | i wonder if i should wait a few months in case they make some sudden improvement or find some massive bugs |
| 05:06.25 | mmontour | whoa - I just got an email from the openmoko-announce list. |
| 05:06.52 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 05:07.18 | dvarnes | "in about a week" .. is the answer |
| 05:07.32 | balrog-kun | ColdFyre: i'd say don't, bugs are constantly fixed same way technology is constantly improving |
| 05:07.43 | wurp2|away | ColdFyre: I'm waiting for gta03. I already have a gta01 |
| 05:07.46 | balrog-kun | it's like waiting for something cool to be invented before buying |
| 05:07.54 | balrog-kun | something unspecified |
| 05:07.59 | *** join/#openmoko BDo (n=bdonnett@linagoraberri.pck.nerim.net) |
| 05:08.34 | wurp2|away | Or if the software makes huge progress, I might buy an 02 and pawn the 01 off on my wife |
| 05:09.18 | ColdFyre | i just have the moto a780 which is begging to be replaced |
| 05:09.49 | wurp2|away | Yeah, if I didn't have an 01 I'd definitely be chomping at the bit for an 02 |
| 05:10.17 | wurp2|away | I remember back in November/December when I bought my 01, worrying whether I should wait for an 02 |
| 05:10.41 | wurp2|away | I'm definitely glad I didn't ;-) It's been "about to come out" for 9 months. |
| 05:12.19 | ColdFyre | oo openmoko is hiring unix sysadmins |
| 05:13.09 | wurp2|away | If you know it's a bad idea to do everything as root, and set the root password to blank, you're hired |
| 05:13.27 | ColdFyre | too easy.. |
| 05:13.45 | wurp2|away | Obviously not for OM |
| 05:14.19 | ColdFyre | my company just canned a guy that did not know change the listening port of sshd .. except rebooting |
| 05:14.22 | ozzloy | wurp2|away: can you make calls on the 01? |
| 05:14.30 | wurp2|away | ozzloy: Surely |
| 05:14.57 | ozzloy | wurp2|away: what provider do you use with it? |
| 05:14.58 | *** join/#openmoko pvborza (n=paul@79.119.155.27) |
| 05:15.00 | wurp2|away | AT&T |
| 05:15.05 | wurp2|away | Any GSM provider will do |
| 05:15.24 | wurp2|away | But getting internet access is of varying difficulty depending on provider |
| 05:15.26 | wurp2|away | (gprs) |
| 05:15.59 | wurp2|away | The stability of the software varies over time :-( |
| 05:16.09 | wurp2|away | I think the fso framework will fix that |
| 05:17.44 | *** join/#openmoko |R (n=bob@dsl-67-55-1-163.acanac.net) |
| 05:17.46 | ozzloy | wurp2|away: i really want to get a new phone and the 02 is very appealing |
| 05:18.05 | ozzloy | wurp2|away: do you use a bt kb with your 01? |
| 05:18.06 | wurp2|away | ozzloy: If you want stable calls, Qtopia is the way to go for now |
| 05:18.26 | wurp2|away | ozzloy: Yep; I'm using the iGo ThinkOutside |
| 05:18.37 | ozzloy | cool |
| 05:18.38 | wurp2|away | ozzloy: There's also a sw kb, of course |
| 05:18.57 | ozzloy | wurp2|away: what's the battery like on the 01? |
| 05:19.22 | wurp2|away | Being able to futz around in a linux terminal, scanning for bt devices, tracking your location w/gps, seeing what cell towers are in range is pretty cool |
| 05:19.27 | wurp2|away | ozzloy: crap :-( |
| 05:19.43 | wurp2|away | With suspend & resume, 24 hours life is about all you can expect |
| 05:20.01 | wurp2|away | suspend & resume are not stable now (although I think it is in some recent fso releases) |
| 05:20.02 | ozzloy | wurp2|away: k. i think i can live with that |
| 05:20.13 | ozzloy | good times |
| 05:20.14 | wurp2|away | and without it, you get 4-5 hours :-( :-( |
| 05:20.43 | ozzloy | sounds like a developers phone still |
| 05:20.47 | wurp2|away | FR battery life should be a little better than that |
| 05:20.52 | rwhitby | ozzloy: it is |
| 05:20.55 | wurp2|away | Yeah, the 1973 was never anything but |
| 05:20.59 | ozzloy | maybe a good second phone |
| 05:21.03 | wurp2|away | And the FR still is right now |
| 05:21.32 | wurp2|away | I use it as my primary, but I lose maybe 1 call in 6 (never rings; gsm died in the meantime) and I keep it plugged into a PC most of the day |
| 05:21.40 | wurp2|away | or a usb charger |
| 05:21.49 | ozzloy | wurp2|away: oic |
| 05:21.51 | wurp2|away | I think if I ran Qtopia I wouldn't lose any calls |
| 05:22.11 | wurp2|away | I should say, gsm software died. I think the hw is quite stable |
| 05:22.34 | *** join/#openmoko kvk (n=vinu@61.16.248.242) |
| 05:22.35 | wurp2|away | And of course I'm talking about the 1973, I have no direct experience with Freerunner |
| 05:22.51 | *** join/#openmoko cheng (n=cheng@xGagB214.WH1.tu-dresden.de) |
| 05:22.53 | ozzloy | yes yes |
| 05:23.02 | ozzloy | i'm so glad to hear it |
| 05:23.19 | ozzloy | i'm ready for a phone that doesn't have artificial limitations |
| 05:23.37 | ozzloy | tthat aggravates me to an extreme degree |
| 05:23.56 | wurp2|away | yep, me too |
| 05:24.00 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=aldwulf@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 05:24.02 | J-23 | hi. |
| 05:24.05 | wurp2|away | So much so that I never bought a smartphone until the neo |
| 05:24.25 | rwhitby | the FR has no artificial limitations, but plenty of real ones :-) |
| 05:24.40 | rwhitby | (most of which are solvable by software, but not all) |
| 05:24.40 | ozzloy | wurp2|away: i have a second hand phone that barely has color |
| 05:25.16 | *** join/#openmoko ccube_ (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 05:25.25 | ozzloy | rwhitby: like what? |
| 05:25.35 | doc|home | rwhitby: the software could be considered an artificial limitation :) |
| 05:25.44 | doc|home | especially the drivers |
| 05:25.53 | ozzloy | rwhitby: in terms of software unsolvable |
| 05:26.12 | rwhitby | ozzloy: glamo performance |
| 05:26.23 | ozzloy | ah, battery life |
| 05:27.39 | ozzloy | wurp2|away: how's your signal on the 01? |
| 05:27.56 | wurp2|away | ozzloy: It's actually been quite good |
| 05:28.17 | wurp2|away | I visit my family in Arkansas (I'm in Dallas TX) and I have signal anywhere near a metro area |
| 05:28.17 | ozzloy | my crapfone has crapreception |
| 05:28.23 | rwhitby | In my case, I have a FreeRunner which will no longer charge it's battery, nor will it switch on either with an externally charged battery or with USB power. |
| 05:28.38 | wurp2|away | But none out in the boonies, due to lack of 950 mhz on the 01 |
| 05:28.50 | wurp2|away | rwhitby: Ack! |
| 05:28.54 | ozzloy | rwhitby: ew |
| 05:29.08 | wurp2|away | I didn't think you even needed a battery in the FR to boot up |
| 05:29.11 | wurp2|away | If you had usb power |
| 05:29.22 | rwhitby | If you've been following Steve's messages on the kernel list, it seems he has the same problem. |
| 05:29.23 | ozzloy | does the 01? |
| 05:29.34 | wurp2|away | ozzloy: nope :-( |
| 05:29.42 | rwhitby | booting the 01 with usb and no battery is a sure way to slowly kill it |
| 05:29.42 | wurp2|away | It makes this cool sound, though |
| 05:29.52 | wurp2|away | Which I'm told means it's trying to catch fire |
| 05:29.52 | ozzloy | heh |
| 05:30.37 | ozzloy | by "artificial limitations" i mean limitations actively put into place because they might eat into profits |
| 05:31.14 | ozzloy | like not allowing users to set their ring tone to whatever they darn well please |
| 05:31.19 | *** join/#openmoko emilis_info (n=emilis@clt-84-32-58-67.vdnet.lt) |
| 05:31.28 | wurp2|away | Go tell it on the mountain, man |
| 05:31.39 | ozzloy | heh |
| 05:31.48 | wurp2|away | And not giving me my text messages in morse using the vibrator |
| 05:31.49 | rwhitby | ozzloy: that's more your carrier, and the subsidised contract you entered into with them. |
| 05:32.04 | rwhitby | ozzloy: let me guess, you're in the US, right? |
| 05:32.06 | wurp2|away | rwhitby: Yeah, but in the US it seems to be every carrier |
| 05:32.08 | raster | expect lots of "artificial limitations" |
| 05:32.13 | raster | not for profit reasons |
| 05:32.17 | ozzloy | rwhitby: yes |
| 05:32.25 | raster | but because the wise ui designers have decided that you as users dont need options |
| 05:32.28 | raster | as its too confusing |
| 05:32.28 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@dD577D009.access.telenet.be) |
| 05:32.34 | rwhitby | in countries where unlocked GSM phones are commonplace, you get a whole different experience |
| 05:32.42 | raster | and instead you will need to write software of your own and make your own packages to modify anything |
| 05:32.58 | ozzloy | raster: that's a welcome change |
| 05:32.59 | raster | as the catch cry is "well its open source" |
| 05:33.14 | rwhitby | the phones mostly have all the options. the ones manufactured for each carrier have the options turned off at the demand of the carrier. |
| 05:33.19 | wurp2|away | I must sleep |
| 05:33.25 | wurp2|away | y'all have fun |
| 05:33.32 | raster | thus you the user can go figure out how to modify the software yourself and figure out how to set up the openembedded build env to make packages etc. |
| 05:33.33 | ozzloy | gnight wurp2|away |
| 05:35.36 | ozzloy | wait, can you recommend a bt kb? |
| 05:35.50 | ozzloy | or anyone in here? |
| 05:35.51 | *** join/#openmoko peter__b (n=peter_b@p5497BA9F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:37.53 | Dave | Ah, a bluetooth keyboard... what a novel idea; might be cute :] |
| 05:38.33 | ozzloy | Dave: i imagine it would turn the FR into a note-taking device for classes |
| 05:38.47 | ozzloy | i don't necessarily want to bring my laptop |
| 05:38.58 | Dave | right. |
| 05:40.18 | ozzloy | or an in car navigation set-up (point it at gmaps) |
| 05:40.35 | Dave | heehee, yep. |
| 05:40.55 | *** join/#openmoko hklein___ (n=hklein@i59F7676C.versanet.de) |
| 05:41.00 | ozzloy | questionable legality |
| 05:42.33 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 05:43.29 | *** join/#openmoko alexxy (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171) |
| 05:44.35 | Railer | legal shmegal |
| 05:44.41 | Dave | right :P |
| 05:44.49 | Dave | Railer, now now :p |
| 05:45.41 | ozzloy | does the 02 have a camera? |
| 05:45.51 | mmontour | no camera. |
| 05:47.02 | raster | no upskirt piccies for you! |
| 05:47.03 | ozzloy | on the one hand, i like that because i don't want a camera eating battery life |
| 05:47.21 | raster | cameras dont eat abttery |
| 05:47.23 | raster | unless used |
| 05:47.30 | raster | so it'd just be extra dev costs and hw costs |
| 05:47.43 | ozzloy | oh |
| 05:47.47 | ozzloy | and space? |
| 05:47.54 | raster | of course |
| 05:48.05 | raster | the gta01/02 are not very cramped for space |
| 05:48.10 | raster | theres lots of wasted space |
| 05:48.11 | raster | lots |
| 05:48.15 | ljp | `tons |
| 05:48.19 | raster | mountains |
| 05:48.27 | ljp | err.. tonnes |
| 05:48.29 | rwhitby | hectares |
| 05:48.38 | raster | in part audio quality suffers because there is so much space |
| 05:48.48 | raster | audio out from the speaker echoes thru the case to the mic |
| 05:48.56 | rwhitby | yeah, you get that cathedral like sound ... |
| 05:48.56 | raster | and thus we have to keep volume down on the speaker |
| 05:49.03 | raster | so make sure u dont get echo feedback |
| 05:49.51 | ozzloy | heh |
| 05:49.57 | ozzloy | interesting |
| 05:51.03 | Dave | :) |
| 05:51.18 | Dave | German cookies, blah. |
| 05:51.27 | ozzloy | otoh (to finish that thought) i do image processing, so it'd be neat to have a camera on the device. maybe some interaction capabilities |
| 05:51.51 | *** join/#openmoko Infinyte (n=Infinyte@66-146-251-206.gtmc.net) |
| 05:52.28 | Dave | meh |
| 05:52.30 | Dave | No thanks |
| 05:52.40 | Dave | or at least make it modular. |
| 05:52.52 | Dave | actually that's a great idea. |
| 05:52.58 | Dave | though currently usb camera works fine :P |
| 05:53.27 | ozzloy | Dave: oh usb camera! |
| 05:53.51 | raster | Dave: making things modular on such devices increase scost significantly |
| 05:53.54 | raster | increases size |
| 05:53.58 | raster | decreases reliability |
| 05:54.03 | Infinyte | >_> Soo.. I just got here. |
| 05:54.07 | Infinyte | What're we talkin' about? :x |
| 05:54.19 | ozzloy | i actually have one, but i didn't think about connecting it to the phone |
| 05:54.22 | raster | as such the work to make a "pluggable camerA" module/slot/connector would be the extense of a whoile camera |
| 05:54.28 | raster | in addition to needing to make the camera |
| 05:54.31 | raster | and then buy it |
| 05:54.41 | raster | at this level of embedded hw and integration |
| 05:54.48 | *** part/#openmoko pvborza (n=paul@79.119.155.27) |
| 05:54.48 | Infinyte | Camera phones suck. >_> |
| 05:54.49 | raster | just including hw is cheaper than making it optional |
| 05:54.57 | raster | Infinyte: why? |
| 05:55.16 | Dave | Infinyte++ |
| 05:55.18 | Infinyte | o_O Because the quality of the images usually do? Either that or the phone is super overpriced. |
| 05:55.31 | raster | u havent seen the good camera phones |
| 05:55.38 | Dave | Simply put, it makes it a piece of shit. |
| 05:55.40 | raster | visit japan one day |
| 05:55.45 | Infinyte | Seems more practical to just buy a phone, and a digital camera. |
| 05:55.45 | Dave | I have the mathematics to prove it. |
| 05:55.52 | Dave | :) |
| 05:56.03 | Infinyte | <3 you Dave. |
| 05:56.06 | raster | if u ewant high quality - yes |
| 05:56.24 | raster | but the better camera phones are as good as your average compact camera |
| 05:56.28 | Dave | If you want a myspacing women's lockerroom voyeuristic type of device, sure then |
| 05:56.36 | raster | they have the same lenses and ccd's |
| 05:56.39 | raster | 5+mpixel |
| 05:56.40 | Dave | Also if you want something which makes your phone more liable to damage and break easily, yep. |
| 05:56.48 | Railer | yes the usb port makes good cam + phone a much better idea |
| 05:57.00 | Railer | you ever use iphone cam? |
| 05:57.01 | Dave | It's also a waste of space, and usually makes it awkward. |
| 05:57.13 | Dave | Railer, it has a camera? :P |
| 05:57.37 | raster | and no instead i have a camera in my pocket and a hpone |
| 05:57.42 | raster | the total space is much more |
| 05:57.48 | Dave | oh no! |
| 05:57.49 | Railer | best blurs I ever took, sold them to the national enquirer, told them they were all UFO's |
| 05:57.51 | raster | now u add your mp3 player |
| 05:57.53 | raster | and so on |
| 05:57.57 | Dave | hah |
| 05:57.57 | raster | and you have a tonne fo pcoket-lint |
| 05:58.07 | Dave | and sagging pants :) |
| 05:58.13 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:58.17 | raster | witha n "ok" camera |
| 05:58.31 | Infinyte | But uhh, dunno about Japan's phones. But I still doubt the quality is as good as an actual Camera. In essence, the cost effectiveness in terms of what you're getting quality-wise is lower when getting a Camera phone as apposed to getting a phone and a camera seperate. The only benifit to getting a camera phone IMO is for lazy people who only want to carry around one thing. :D |
| 05:58.32 | Infinyte | >_> |
| 05:58.33 | raster | that can play music (accept enough storage via micro-sd) |
| 05:58.39 | raster | will cut your pocket-lint down massively |
| 05:59.02 | Dave | raster, see you in three to five years, man! |
| 05:59.03 | Dave | :) |
| 05:59.05 | Railer | iphone is 2 mega no flash = garbage |
| 05:59.15 | raster | 2 years ago in japan they had 5+mpixel cameras on phones |
| 05:59.18 | raster | with GOOD lenses |
| 05:59.21 | raster | the same u see on compact cams |
| 05:59.22 | Dave | yep |
| 05:59.37 | raster | dont knock the camera on a phone |
| 05:59.43 | raster | simply ask that it get done WELL |
| 05:59.44 | Dave | I believe I am simply biased. |
| 05:59.56 | raster | and if u dont do it really well |
| 06:00.01 | Dave | Though I do have some legitimate reasons behind my position, as well. |
| 06:00.06 | raster | then just throw a cheap-arse 2mpixel camera in with a crappy lens |
| 06:00.07 | Railer | so it can take a SD and a mini SD at the same time? |
| 06:00.11 | raster | and dont pretend its good for photos |
| 06:00.18 | raster | its good for mug-shots of your friends for your phonebook |
| 06:00.18 | Dave | :P |
| 06:00.23 | raster | thats it |
| 06:00.27 | Dave | haha |
| 06:00.34 | Dave | mugshots |
| 06:00.38 | raster | thats one great use for cameras on phones |
| 06:00.40 | Dave | Too true, in this day and age. |
| 06:00.43 | raster | all my phonebook entires have photos with them |
| 06:00.49 | raster | so i can see who is calling at a glance |
| 06:00.51 | Infinyte | >_> Haha, cause you can't remember their names. |
| 06:00.52 | raster | not have to read the text |
| 06:00.56 | Dave | horrific. |
| 06:00.59 | Infinyte | Kekeke, just kidding. <_< |
| 06:01.12 | raster | Railer: where? freerunner? |
| 06:01.13 | Dave | zergrush? |
| 06:01.27 | Railer | ok back to specs, yes freerunner |
| 06:01.29 | Dave | Railer, it uses one microsd |
| 06:01.38 | Railer | no sd? |
| 06:01.47 | Railer | I thought both? |
| 06:02.10 | raster | Infinyte: dont knock it - have u ever shagged a chick and the next day wondering what her name is? taking a photo of her and handing her your phone and say "hey - can you enter your full name and phone number?" |
| 06:02.29 | raster | trying for the life of you to not look as if you just forgot her name even tho u were doing the wild monkey dance together all night... |
| 06:02.30 | raster | :) |
| 06:02.30 | alphabeat | you take photos before, after or during raster? |
| 06:02.32 | Dave | you can use both a microsd card and a sim card simultaneously, in a very awkwardly designed setup underneath the battery. |
| 06:02.44 | raster | Railer: just micro-sd |
| 06:02.53 | raster | Railer: under the sim card, under the battery |
| 06:02.58 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@h-79-136-60-229.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 06:03.05 | Dave | as I said... ~_~ |
| 06:03.11 | Railer | so sim and micro sd |
| 06:03.16 | raster | alphabeat: camera not good enough in the dark. enough for the mug-shot the next morning |
| 06:03.17 | raster | :) |
| 06:03.18 | Dave | Yeah I think that'd be my biggest complaint. |
| 06:03.30 | Railer | 8 gig biggest micro sd |
| 06:03.35 | *** join/#openmoko tubastian (n=tubastia@pD9546C8C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:03.49 | raster | they will get bigger |
| 06:03.54 | *** join/#openmoko goodwill (n=goodwill@netblock-66-245-212-3.dslextreme.com) |
| 06:03.54 | alphabeat | i'm not sure if 8gb has been tested, only theoretical? |
| 06:03.57 | Dave | Then again, I'm sure that will change in the next model, as it will undoubtedly have an additional flash chip or I would just throw in a top slot loader |
| 06:04.11 | Dave | alphabeat, I'll try tomorrow |
| 06:04.12 | raster | i doubt it |
| 06:04.17 | goodwill | ah yes...the topic explains it all |
| 06:04.24 | Railer | sandisk has 12 g now |
| 06:04.26 | goodwill | tips his hat toward raster |
| 06:04.27 | raster | as a small manufacutrer is there ios little sense in including lots of onboard flash |
| 06:04.28 | alphabeat | Dave: sweet. put your results up on the wiki |
| 06:04.32 | raster | its cheaper to buy an sd card |
| 06:04.33 | Dave | sure |
| 06:04.54 | raster | u dont get to negotiate to buy $X billion in flash chips at once like apple does |
| 06:04.55 | Dave | alphabeat, I was considering hooking up an external drive to the phone this afternoon, just for the hell of it |
| 06:04.59 | raster | and thus get insanely good prices |
| 06:05.07 | Dave | that, and I needed mondo storage for one application I was testing at the time. |
| 06:05.25 | *** join/#openmoko sybesis (n=sybesis@dsl2-209.express.oricom.ca) |
| 06:05.36 | alphabeat | Dave: mondo storage? you were crunching data on the FR? |
| 06:05.39 | sybesis | hi there |
| 06:05.51 | Dave | no, precaching navigational data for a very large area :) |
| 06:06.26 | sybesis | can someone tell me if openmoko is actually ready for receiving call |
| 06:06.32 | sybesis | and calling |
| 06:06.37 | doc|home | Railer: did you do any research into customs by any chance? |
| 06:06.40 | Dave | maps, routes, and other gps location data. in an attempt to do a cool display of a "trip" back and forth to some people I work with |
| 06:07.00 | Dave | doc|home: hey! :) |
| 06:07.04 | Railer | sybesis < interesting name, some kind of disease? |
| 06:07.20 | Dave | haha |
| 06:07.26 | doc|home | Dave: hello, erm, do we know each other? :) |
| 06:07.36 | doc|home | has a terrible memory for names :) |
| 06:07.38 | alphabeat | Dave: sounds cool! |
| 06:07.42 | Railer | doc not yet, |
| 06:07.54 | doc|home | Railer: got any guess at all? |
| 06:08.01 | doc|home | has zero experience with this |
| 06:08.01 | Railer | one sec |
| 06:08.03 | sybesis | mixing nemesis + siberia...but wrong typo made a y appear |
| 06:08.04 | Dave | Alphabeat, I hope so! :) |
| 06:08.14 | Dave | I wasn't able to get it all together for presentation today. |
| 06:08.17 | sybesis | could be a good name for a disease... |
| 06:08.23 | Dave | doc, yes, we do ;) |
| 06:08.33 | Dave | It's been a little while though ;) |
| 06:08.40 | Dave | What did you want to know about customs? |
| 06:08.43 | doc|home | Dave: how? :) |
| 06:08.48 | Railer | shipping, customs charge(broker), duty, gst |
| 06:08.56 | doc|home | Dave: cost of importing 10 phones into canada |
| 06:09.09 | doc|home | railer any idea what the duty would be? |
| 06:09.12 | Dave | oh! |
| 06:09.24 | Dave | I thought you were inquiring to the previous delays. |
| 06:09.30 | Dave | which had to do with customs as well :) |
| 06:09.32 | doc|home | nope :/ |
| 06:09.37 | Dave | Suspected terrorism! |
| 06:09.44 | Dave | Opensource is terrorism! |
| 06:09.44 | *** join/#openmoko alexxy (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171) |
| 06:09.44 | doc|home | pffft |
| 06:09.50 | doc|home | everything's suspected terrism! |
| 06:09.51 | Dave | According to the US :) |
| 06:09.55 | Dave | haha, exactly! |
| 06:09.56 | Railer | checking |
| 06:09.57 | doc|home | Dave: really?! |
| 06:09.59 | sybesis | open source is communism |
| 06:09.59 | Dave | especially openmoko |
| 06:10.01 | Dave | doc, yeah |
| 06:10.06 | Dave | sybesis, you know it, baby! |
| 06:10.10 | doc|home | there are delays?! |
| 06:10.10 | sybesis | :P |
| 06:10.14 | Dave | There WERE |
| 06:10.29 | ozzloy | open source is free market communism |
| 06:10.37 | sybesis | but can someone tell me what we can do with the freerunner |
| 06:10.41 | Railer | well technically open source IS communism |
| 06:10.42 | ozzloy | so more capitalism |
| 06:10.47 | Dave | I think I am going to make some OM accessories. |
| 06:10.48 | doc|home | Dave: ah, so, is there an expected date? |
| 06:10.54 | sybesis | if i could just receive and send call i would be ok |
| 06:11.03 | doc|home | ozzloy: lies, it is the free market at its finest |
| 06:11.16 | Dave | No clues, but I do know there won't be as much of a significant customs delay now. |
| 06:11.18 | doc|home | ozzloy: something sucked so bad competition arose |
| 06:11.26 | doc|home | Dave: ok |
| 06:11.29 | Dave | :) |
| 06:11.34 | ozzloy | sybesis: a dude earlier said the 1973 would drop 1 in 6 of his calls |
| 06:11.34 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host81-159-120-10.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 06:11.42 | Dave | Which should be good news to all those customers wanting a phone :) |
| 06:11.43 | Railer | wish list, VOIP over wifi, GPS with maps, and of course porn |
| 06:11.59 | Dave | now just worry about the truck getting hijacked by microsoft contracted ninjas |
| 06:12.01 | Dave | :p |
| 06:12.09 | Dave | or apple, even. |
| 06:12.16 | sybesis | ozzloy: fine i only receive 1 call every two months |
| 06:12.18 | doc|home | open source isn't communism, under communism there's no such thing as a fork, unless it's getting shoved into your eyeballs :) |
| 06:12.19 | sybesis | :P |
| 06:12.21 | ozzloy | heh |
| 06:12.29 | Dave | Railer, a perfect reason to hook up an external harddisk |
| 06:12.33 | Dave | or install the nfs kernel module :P |
| 06:12.36 | raster | doc|home: only spoons due. only spoons. |
| 06:12.40 | raster | doc|home: only spoons dude. only spoons. |
| 06:12.42 | raster | i mean |
| 06:12.46 | ozzloy | doc|home: what the heck communism is that? |
| 06:12.53 | doc|home | pffft, there is no spoon! |
| 06:12.58 | Dave | haha |
| 06:13.02 | Dave | nice, nice :) |
| 06:13.05 | *** join/#openmoko shenki (n=joel@202.174.42.5) |
| 06:13.14 | doc|home | ozzloy: under communism, do you get any choice as to what you use or do you use what the state tells you to use? |
| 06:13.34 | Dave | or what database your backend must be coded for :P |
| 06:13.42 | doc|home | heh |
| 06:13.43 | Dave | giggles |
| 06:13.45 | ozzloy | doc|home: are you thinking fascism? |
| 06:14.06 | doc|home | ozzloy: no, fascism is capitalism tightly embedded with governments :) |
| 06:14.14 | *** join/#openmoko two3four (n=erik@81-233-151-113-no82.business.telia.com) |
| 06:14.18 | doc|home | with a socialist bent |
| 06:14.29 | *** part/#openmoko shenki (n=joel@202.174.42.5) |
| 06:14.34 | Dave | So, where does that leave OpenEmbedded then? :P |
| 06:14.42 | doc|home | Dave: libertarian, use what you like! :) |
| 06:14.48 | doc|home | or something ;) |
| 06:14.51 | Dave | hah! |
| 06:14.54 | sybesis | doc|home: the only thing i know is that at the fall of URSS one friend told me there were ballet all days at TV |
| 06:14.55 | Dave | yeah |
| 06:15.18 | doc|home | sybesis: better ballets than hannity and colmes :/ |
| 06:15.32 | Dave | yeehaw! |
| 06:15.59 | *** join/#openmoko drath (i=vmaster@p5B07FCB8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:16.35 | sybesis | but i believe everything was from the gov but you still had choice in what there were in the markets |
| 06:16.35 | Dave | The biggest thing by far will be settings/configuration applications :P |
| 06:16.46 | sybesis | the only problem was that the supply wasn't there |
| 06:16.48 | doc|home | Railer: so, any idea? |
| 06:17.20 | Dave | It's like, WHOA, the hardware is so cooooool, it can do all this stuff -- oh wait, but how do I get it to do that? -- Oh, what, there's no support for this [yet] ? There's no applications which use this yet? oh, poo :p |
| 06:17.25 | Dave | whee, the freerunner is so fun! |
| 06:17.38 | doc|home | sybesis: well, this is a discussion for a whole other channel (which is fine by me if you like) but there were no markets because the markets didn't exist. the idea of markets was whatever the government said was in demand. They controlled production. |
| 06:17.38 | Dave | Perhaps this is why I am on the development side of things, heh. |
| 06:17.46 | ozzloy | speaking of russian ballet, http://youtube.com/watch?v=KoQb8vb4blA |
| 06:18.15 | sybesis | i seen that video |
| 06:18.17 | sybesis | :D |
| 06:18.20 | ozzloy | or ... russian dance |
| 06:18.38 | doc|home | sybesis: that's the problem with socialism in general, you lose the supply/demand signals that markets give you |
| 06:18.53 | raster | Dave: considering i know that for example 98%+ of things able to be configured can't be because the settings app explicitly was specified to not configure things. only the bare minimum - if that even, and thats it. |
| 06:19.04 | raster | tho its possible to change theme |
| 06:19.05 | raster | change font size |
| 06:19.18 | raster | add/remove gadgets to display status of stuff |
| 06:19.22 | sybesis | doc|home: unfortunately my experience is pretty low on that subject :\ |
| 06:19.25 | raster | no config ability to change that |
| 06:19.29 | Railer | doc your best bet is to call ups they should be able to tell you everything |
| 06:19.30 | doc|home | sybesis: np :) |
| 06:19.33 | Dave | raster, you got it! |
| 06:19.41 | raster | because all those options may be confusing |
| 06:19.44 | doc|home | Railer: I won't get the chance to do that, could you? :) |
| 06:19.59 | doc|home | my work situation doesn't allow it :) |
| 06:20.02 | Railer | I wonder if they are open now? |
| 06:20.14 | Infinyte | Hmm. |
| 06:20.15 | doc|home | hmmm |
| 06:20.17 | doc|home | dunno |
| 06:20.22 | Dave | raster, I was somewhat appauled to discover that the OM build images don't package most of the modules, by default (with the rootfs). |
| 06:20.24 | Infinyte | I'm worried about Android. |
| 06:20.25 | sybesis | I saw that Composition extensions were there! does that mean we could have a cool UI with transparency? |
| 06:20.26 | doc|home | has zero credit now though :/ |
| 06:20.32 | Dave | heh |
| 06:20.36 | Dave | rut roh |
| 06:20.37 | Infinyte | What if it smooshes OpenMoko? |
| 06:20.42 | Infinyte | :< |
| 06:20.47 | Railer | I need to know the size and weight of package and where coming from? |
| 06:20.52 | raster | sybesis: no chance |
| 06:20.52 | Dave | spent too much time on that home, eh doc? ;) |
| 06:20.56 | Railer | made in China I know |
| 06:21.07 | Dave | Infinyte: smooshes? |
| 06:21.09 | doc|home | Infinyte: competition's a good thing, and that's unlikely, different markets. It's not really that opeb, |
| 06:21.11 | Dave | smushes? |
| 06:21.11 | raster | sybesis: performance alone makes it a practical impossibility |
| 06:21.27 | doc|home | raster: got any idea on dimensions and weight of phone packages? |
| 06:21.30 | Dave | right |
| 06:21.32 | sybesis | ok but its still possible |
| 06:21.39 | Dave | doc|home: I could tell you exactly |
| 06:21.40 | raster | doc|home: ummmm |
| 06:21.42 | raster | not sure |
| 06:21.43 | doc|home | Infinyte: s/opeb/open |
| 06:21.44 | raster | really |
| 06:21.47 | doc|home | Dave: that'd be great |
| 06:21.51 | Dave | I have several right next to me :P |
| 06:21.54 | raster | its not big |
| 06:22.03 | Infinyte | o.O Ahh. |
| 06:22.07 | Dave | granted it could vary by a few grams, if you don't get all the goodies |
| 06:22.10 | doc|home | raster: probably not precise enough for ups to guess duties :) |
| 06:22.13 | Dave | yes, it's rather compact :] |
| 06:22.26 | raster | doc|home: just let them figure it out and charge you as needed |
| 06:22.29 | doc|home | Dave: that's no prob. I'm wondering about a 10 pack |
| 06:22.33 | raster | the size and weight isnt goign to change |
| 06:22.38 | raster | so it will cost whatever it costs |
| 06:22.38 | doc|home | raster: yeah, except I have some people wiring me money |
| 06:22.38 | Dave | apparently US customs thought we were smuggling high explosives, if that gives you an idea :) |
| 06:22.44 | raster | ooh |
| 06:22.47 | raster | i see |
| 06:22.56 | sybesis | wow |
| 06:23.00 | Railer | whats the link to group buy |
| 06:23.00 | doc|home | and I need the money before hand, don't have much of a credit limit on my card |
| 06:23.32 | raster | sybesis: it will be so slow, continental drift will seem like amazing action film footage |
| 06:23.33 | Dave | doc, you want me to measure one of these cases for you? :p |
| 06:23.41 | doc|home | Dave: if you wouldn't mind, that'd be great |
| 06:23.42 | Dave | raster, hah! |
| 06:23.49 | Infinyte | Hay wayt. |
| 06:23.54 | Infinyte | >_> Are you THE Dave? |
| 06:23.56 | raster | theres no acceleration for xrender |
| 06:23.59 | raster | pixmaps live in video ram |
| 06:24.06 | raster | video bus to/from video ram is slow |
| 06:24.09 | Dave | Sure |
| 06:24.14 | Dave | Infinyte: YES |
| 06:24.15 | raster | software fallbacks are going to be slow-as-arse |
| 06:24.17 | Dave | FOR THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! |
| 06:24.19 | Infinyte | Saweet. |
| 06:24.28 | raster | acceleration is in theory possible for a small subset of xrender - but nothing has been implemented |
| 06:24.39 | *** join/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@host81-153-198-60.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 06:24.44 | sybesis | i see |
| 06:25.12 | Dave | haha, graphical representation of the accelerometer -- not such a great idea -- smells of seizures and dizziness :p |
| 06:25.16 | Dave | teehee |
| 06:25.28 | sybesis | i was willing to do some custom toolkit because i believe gtk is something already pretty slow |
| 06:25.51 | ozzloy | "THE DAVE"? i'm sorry i can't do that, "Dave"? |
| 06:26.01 | Dave | stabbity-stabs ozzloy |
| 06:26.08 | Dave | NoHal4U! |
| 06:26.24 | ozzloy | oh geeze, oh no! /me spurts blood |
| 06:26.42 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 06:26.59 | Railer | so do we know for sure it's coming from fremont ca? |
| 06:27.01 | Dave | Hopscotch, I hope you enjoy fresh blood in the morning :) |
| 06:27.12 | Hopscotch | fresh blood? you mean coffee? |
| 06:27.19 | ozzloy | fremont!?! when!? |
| 06:27.27 | doc|home | Railer: I think all north american orders are from there |
| 06:27.31 | Infinyte | Voip pleaz. :D |
| 06:27.50 | Dave | gets a ruler |
| 06:27.54 | methril | morning |
| 06:28.01 | Railer | ozzloy, no idea just guessing, dont get excited |
| 06:28.18 | Dave | doc|home: inches okay? :P |
| 06:28.35 | doc|home | Dave: ask Railer :) |
| 06:28.57 | sybesis | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1j10CIAJk4&feature=related |
| 06:29.01 | Dave | It's 7"x4"x3.75" |
| 06:29.05 | sybesis | looks interesting like gui |
| 06:29.07 | Dave | Each unit, that is. |
| 06:29.11 | doc|home | Dave: the box? |
| 06:29.15 | Dave | yep |
| 06:29.16 | goodwill | doc|home: really the north american orders are from fremont? |
| 06:29.16 | sybesis | 1 min |
| 06:29.21 | doc|home | Dave: wow, that is compact |
| 06:29.25 | Dave | indeed |
| 06:29.26 | doc|home | goodwill: I think so |
| 06:29.30 | Dave | everything comes in a single box |
| 06:29.32 | doc|home | Railer: got that? |
| 06:29.36 | doc|home | Railer: then x10 |
| 06:29.58 | sybesis | x10 ? you mean x11! |
| 06:29.58 | Dave | actually I took a bunch of the goodies out, since it's a pain to repack it all nicely in there, after taking stuff out :P |
| 06:30.06 | doc|home | sybesis: hah |
| 06:30.19 | Dave | are we badmouthing qtopia now? |
| 06:30.25 | doc|home | Dave: yeah, we just need box dimensions + total weight per box |
| 06:30.30 | doc|home | doesn't have to be packed |
| 06:30.32 | Dave | sure |
| 06:30.35 | Dave | heh |
| 06:30.42 | doc|home | thanks :) |
| 06:30.45 | Railer | found it on site hold on |
| 06:30.46 | Dave | let's see if I have a scale around... |
| 06:31.10 | Railer | For calculating shipping costs, the dimensions of one 10-pack is 435mm x 371mm x 119mm. The weight should be around 3kg. |
| 06:31.15 | ozzloy | sybesis: neat phone |
| 06:31.22 | doc|home | Railer: cool |
| 06:31.40 | sybesis | yup it has video streaming i can't believe openmoko isn't able to do that |
| 06:32.10 | goodwill | doc|home: the only reason I ask is that there seems to be about 5 people in bay area for the second group and the LA group is lacking 2 |
| 06:32.14 | sybesis | i like the UI but it looks a bit confusing |
| 06:32.24 | doc|home | sybesis: things are much easier when you have it closed |
| 06:32.35 | doc|home | goodwill: *nod* |
| 06:32.37 | Railer | ok what is the postal code for the fremont distribution center |
| 06:32.44 | ozzloy | goodwill: is this groups of people looking to buy and share shippping cos? |
| 06:32.49 | sybesis | closed? you mean closed source? |
| 06:32.54 | doc|home | sybesis: yep |
| 06:32.57 | ozzloy | cost* |
| 06:33.08 | goodwill | doc|home: so we in the LA group could potentially pick it up, drop off 2 phone in bay area and drive the rest to LA |
| 06:33.11 | Dave | okay, let's see... |
| 06:33.19 | doc|home | goodwill: nice |
| 06:34.17 | ozzloy | well i'll be driving from los altos to san diego this weekend |
| 06:34.18 | Dave | Alright, doc. Each unit weighs roughly 1lb 3.6oz |
| 06:34.20 | goodwill | doc|home: if it is in fremont |
| 06:34.27 | doc|home | Dave: thanks :) |
| 06:34.35 | Dave | Yep, I think that was everything too :) |
| 06:35.10 | ozzloy | so i could pick up stuff if people want to trust some random irc man |
| 06:35.14 | Dave | Oh it could vary by an ounce of two, since the early test models we received didn't all have a nice openmoko neoprene case :P |
| 06:35.15 | goodwill | Dave: the center is in fremont for sure? |
| 06:35.24 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@195.6.104.193) |
| 06:35.43 | Railer | I need the postal code for distribution in fremont anyone ? |
| 06:35.44 | goodwill | Dave: are pick ups of 10 packs possible? |
| 06:35.54 | Dave | I do not know. |
| 06:36.21 | doc|home | Railer: any one in fremont should do. It's not going to change the price as the boxes are going to canada. |
| 06:36.24 | Dave | I have not been in direct contact with any domestic distributors or resellers. |
| 06:36.39 | Railer | ok and postal code for fremont? |
| 06:36.47 | doc|home | Railer: no idea :) |
| 06:36.56 | goodwill | Dave: is there a contact information of any sort? |
| 06:37.06 | Dave | I do not believe so, as of yet. |
| 06:37.14 | Dave | They don't want to talk to you, yet :) |
| 06:37.24 | goodwill | hangs head |
| 06:37.25 | Dave | Railer, which one? ;) |
| 06:37.32 | Dave | Be patient, ya'll :p |
| 06:37.33 | Railer | anyone |
| 06:37.55 | Railer | i think i got one |
| 06:38.01 | Railer | 94555 |
| 06:38.11 | goodwill | another question I had is about debug boards...if I am getting a phone part of 10 pack, do I need to order the debug board separately? |
| 06:38.12 | Dave | Railer, planning on hijacking a truck? |
| 06:38.21 | goodwill | hahaha |
| 06:38.30 | Dave | goodwill, just add it as an accessory. |
| 06:38.45 | Dave | it will likely be shipped along with, provided you are ordering from a local distributor/reseller |
| 06:38.54 | Dave | I don't see why not, though it's up to them, individually. |
| 06:38.55 | goodwill | Dave: I can add a singular accessory to a 10 pack? |
| 06:39.02 | Dave | why not? |
| 06:39.04 | goodwill | ok |
| 06:39.07 | goodwill | just checking |
| 06:39.13 | Dave | it's not like they seal the phones in a box and say, NO MORE. |
| 06:39.17 | Dave | Fucking packaging nazis. |
| 06:39.23 | goodwill | true, true |
| 06:39.24 | Dave | glares at UPS |
| 06:40.00 | goodwill | sybesis: Neonodes graphical user interface (GUI) and operating system running on the Microsoft Windows CE platform. |
| 06:40.06 | goodwill | sybesis: booo, booo |
| 06:40.11 | sybesis | :( |
| 06:40.23 | Railer | actually dave, the boxes maybe a specific sixe that will not allow any more room for stuff |
| 06:40.32 | Dave | Sure, it's possible. |
| 06:40.37 | sybesis | anyway i like the concept but i had something else in mind |
| 06:40.44 | goodwill | so much time, so little phone |
| 06:40.52 | Dave | Then again, what does it really matter, if your primary concern is shipping costs, the debug board is even less than a single phone unit. |
| 06:40.57 | sybesis | openmoko doesn't actually have multitouch screen but we could still emulate it |
| 06:41.26 | goodwill | I am planning to put apache or lighthttpd on mine and freak out my friends |
| 06:41.31 | Dave | I'm complaining because I have tons of phones and haven't received the new debug board yet, because of some stupidhead who placed our original order! |
| 06:41.38 | Railer | piece of crap ups site dont work |
| 06:41.40 | goodwill | just to mess with them |
| 06:41.48 | Dave | goodwill, heh |
| 06:42.00 | goodwill | iPhone my ass |
| 06:42.10 | doc|home | waste of a good iphone |
| 06:42.17 | doc|home | hard to extract too |
| 06:42.26 | raster | goodwill: that'd be disturbing to hear your arse ring when someone calls |
| 06:42.27 | goodwill | *mutters* |
| 06:42.35 | Dave | irc'ing from the freerunner was less spectacular than original anticipated. |
| 06:42.43 | Railer | goodwill some already has an asterix project going, how about the ability to change your called ID |
| 06:42.45 | Dave | Then again, I didn't have any high expectations to begin with :D |
| 06:42.53 | goodwill | Railer: wow |
| 06:42.55 | doc|home | Dave: yeah, tried it on an n800 a while back, not exactly fun |
| 06:42.57 | goodwill | Railer: nice |
| 06:43.25 | Dave | hah |
| 06:43.46 | doc|home | I'm not liking the look of the neonode, screen would be too low res |
| 06:43.56 | doc|home | web browsing for example wouldn't be fun |
| 06:44.04 | Dave | I think I might try hosting an nfs share from an external hd connected to the gta02 via usb, tomorrow |
| 06:44.04 | raster | doc|home: but its so cool. it runs windows mobile! |
| 06:44.06 | sybesis | lol i was just liking the arrows |
| 06:44.08 | raster | :) |
| 06:44.15 | doc|home | raster: we need that like custer needed more indians |
| 06:44.21 | Infinyte | What's this about a NeoNube? |
| 06:44.28 | goodwill | hmmm, is flash possible on FR? |
| 06:44.34 | Dave | windows mobile? |
| 06:44.37 | Dave | where did that come from? |
| 06:44.40 | doc|home | goodwill: as in camera flash? |
| 06:44.41 | goodwill | I do not knwo if there is arm compiled flash |
| 06:44.42 | Dave | goodwill: flash? |
| 06:44.47 | goodwill | adobe flash |
| 06:44.47 | raster | doc|home: but all of custers indians are dead by now, so of course he needs more! :) |
| 06:44.49 | Dave | OH, haha, like shockwave media content? |
| 06:44.57 | goodwill | though probably gnash is possible |
| 06:44.58 | doc|home | raster: as is custer, he doesn't need anything these days :) |
| 06:45.05 | goodwill | and swfdec I think |
| 06:45.08 | raster | doc|home: hehehehe |
| 06:45.19 | Dave | You're crazy. |
| 06:45.24 | sybesis | oh and by the way, i bet qtopia or openmoko doesn't take advantages of the accelerometer |
| 06:45.27 | raster | flahs would be nicely slow on the fr |
| 06:45.29 | Dave | meanwhile, everyone complain at the jvm people |
| 06:45.36 | doc|home | raster: so, give us the inside scope on new hardware? :) |
| 06:45.36 | raster | u'd only be able to use limited simple flash |
| 06:45.38 | Dave | sybesis, not yet it doesn't |
| 06:45.46 | raster | yousplooge is not going to really be usable for example |
| 06:45.48 | sybesis | if we could have some xrender stuff we could just do rotate left right... |
| 06:46.04 | sybesis | and hope everything else resize correctly |
| 06:46.07 | raster | sybesis: xrandr, not xrender |
| 06:46.13 | sybesis | xrandr yup |
| 06:46.20 | doc|home | hmmm, flash on the n800 works, albeit not very nice, youtube for example jsut about works . it should be possible on the freerunner, right? |
| 06:46.22 | raster | and thats already there in x |
| 06:46.24 | raster | on the fr |
| 06:46.32 | Dave | ewww |
| 06:46.38 | raster | but i can tell u now that even tho core e handles it right |
| 06:46.39 | Infinyte | Youtube on the FreeRunner? |
| 06:46.39 | Dave | doc, it's your funeral, man. :p |
| 06:46.40 | sybesis | i'm still learning x |
| 06:46.42 | raster | illume (module) doesnt |
| 06:46.45 | goodwill | doc|home: adobe compiles flash for arm? |
| 06:46.52 | Dave | ahahha, no |
| 06:46.53 | raster | so a rotate/resize will lead to weridness without a restart |
| 06:46.57 | Railer | small flash games would be great, flash is easy to program in |
| 06:46.59 | goodwill | doc|home: or is some kind of adapted stack |
| 06:47.24 | raster | doc|home: youtube on the n80 is.. bareful usable |
| 06:47.29 | sybesis | raster: would love to see what kind of weirdiness |
| 06:47.30 | raster | it drops lots of frames |
| 06:47.38 | Dave | raster, let me put it this way, the freerunner on any os/image doesn't even work about 50% when 'swapping orientations' |
| 06:47.53 | raster | sybesis: i kn ow what kind :) i just dont have any requirment to fix it |
| 06:47.54 | raster | so i'm not |
| 06:47.55 | Dave | it's all buggy and such, applications and screen |
| 06:47.57 | Infinyte | Hey I've got a question. |
| 06:48.02 | raster | as i am busy with other (uselesS) things |
| 06:48.14 | Dave | plus the lack of configuration is part of it, admittedly small :) |
| 06:48.15 | raster | unrelated to making a proper working enviornment |
| 06:48.32 | Dave | raster, haha |
| 06:48.33 | raster | and mroe related to fiddling pixel sizes arouind all the time so desigenrs have their exact pixel-perfect designs |
| 06:48.40 | Dave | for a moment there I thought you said, busy with the other hand :P |
| 06:48.41 | Infinyte | I'm prolly gonna get a T-Mobile card for my Freerunner, and get the data plan. But it doesn't say what the speed is. Will I be able to get me sme hawt G3 speedz? |
| 06:48.50 | doc|home | Dave: hah |
| 06:48.52 | Infinyte | *some |
| 06:49.02 | Dave | Infinity, it's ~2.5G, I belive |
| 06:49.05 | Dave | so, no |
| 06:49.11 | doc|home | goodwill: no idea, all I know is it works on the n800 which is arm also |
| 06:49.22 | Infinyte | Aw. |
| 06:49.23 | doc|home | raster: sure, but just about good enough |
| 06:49.30 | goodwill | raster: when we find out who these designers are, we will wack them on the nose with a wet news paper |
| 06:49.43 | doc|home | raster: oh, and it's a big help if you don't try to watch the vids as they're loading, let them completely load up :/ |
| 06:49.44 | raster | doc|home: debatable. but ok :) i have it too on my n800. it's "just" barely usable imho |
| 06:49.51 | sybesis | openmoko is like a earth breaker |
| 06:49.56 | doc|home | took me a long time to learn that |
| 06:49.57 | Dave | hah |
| 06:50.03 | raster | other vflash video doobies on other sites/places (magazines and newspapers) are utterly unsuable |
| 06:50.11 | raster | it all depends on the size of the video really |
| 06:50.12 | doc|home | raster: yeah |
| 06:50.18 | raster | (resolution) |
| 06:50.25 | raster | (and how much it needs to be scaled for output...) |
| 06:50.29 | Dave | I'm so glad I don't watch internet content. |
| 06:50.31 | raster | (or if it needs caling at all) |
| 06:50.35 | Dave | I'll never run into these issues. :P |
| 06:50.53 | raster | doc|home: didnt try waitign for the buffering before |
| 06:50.56 | raster | might eb helpful |
| 06:51.38 | sybesis | is there any project for people that own a server to replicate our calendar to a remote database? |
| 06:51.44 | doc|home | raster: aye |
| 06:51.45 | *** join/#openmoko Tobi (n=tobi@pD9E853FA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:51.58 | Railer | ups is closed and site not working, im done for tonight |
| 06:52.13 | doc|home | Railer: want to try it in the morning? :) |
| 06:52.21 | Railer | ya |
| 06:52.37 | sybesis | Railer: let you down :( |
| 06:52.37 | doc|home | ok, will be here, if you could let me know it'd be very very much appreciated :) |
| 06:52.45 | Railer | its still just going to be a guess |
| 06:52.57 | doc|home | Railer: also, someone I was talking to from another group mentioned setting up a canadian user's group |
| 06:53.07 | doc|home | Railer: at least then I can know what to charge |
| 06:53.22 | sybesis | doc|home: where? |
| 06:53.27 | XorA | looks for confirmation that the date isnt 1st of April |
| 06:53.27 | doc|home | Railer: what's gst now? |
| 06:53.27 | Railer | there is canadian user groups |
| 06:53.37 | Railer | 5% |
| 06:53.41 | doc|home | Railer: for openmokos? |
| 06:53.45 | *** part/#openmoko Infinyte (n=Infinyte@66-146-251-206.gtmc.net) |
| 06:53.47 | Railer | yes |
| 06:53.51 | doc|home | oh? link? |
| 06:54.02 | doc|home | sybesis: where which? |
| 06:54.06 | doc|home | what why? |
| 06:54.15 | sybesis | errr i'll be in montreal |
| 06:54.19 | goodwill | how? |
| 06:54.19 | Railer | hold on |
| 06:54.22 | doc|home | sybesis: ah, ok |
| 06:54.26 | raster | man i so need to work on a "desktop" for fr that doesnt suck |
| 06:54.35 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 06:54.41 | sybesis | just if there is a usergroup there i could "participate" |
| 06:54.45 | doc|home | sybesis: I'm in vancouver, Railer's in edmonton someplace |
| 06:54.51 | doc|home | raster: heh |
| 06:55.10 | doc|home | raster: doesn't need to be overly "shineh" :) |
| 06:55.30 | goodwill | the first thing I am going to do is figure out if I can change all the orange to some otehr color |
| 06:55.32 | raster | of course it does! |
| 06:55.35 | doc|home | raster: hehehe |
| 06:55.35 | goodwill | I heard the icons are svg |
| 06:55.47 | doc|home | goodwill: I think the orange was the old colour |
| 06:55.48 | raster | would you expect me to product anything that isnt all blingy - unless under duress? |
| 06:55.55 | goodwill | doc|home: really? |
| 06:56.06 | goodwill | doc|home: I have nto qemu asu yet |
| 06:56.07 | doc|home | raster: when you give into your better judgement on performance :) |
| 06:56.19 | Railer | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Local_Groups:_Edmonton |
| 06:56.38 | raster | doc|home: i know how to squeeze the performance i want out of it... if left to my own devices. |
| 06:56.40 | doc|home | Railer: ah, no, not jsut purchase groups, but a long term user group, like a lug |
| 06:56.47 | goodwill | doc|home: I can not have a phone that's all orange...thats just trying to kill my eyes |
| 06:56.49 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 06:56.49 | doc|home | raster: *nod* |
| 06:56.56 | raster | i know what is fast and what comes for "free" |
| 06:56.58 | raster | and what to avoid |
| 06:57.02 | sybesis | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Local_Groups:_Montreal |
| 06:57.05 | sybesis | i beat you |
| 06:57.51 | Railer | I should be working |
| 06:57.58 | doc|home | I should be sleeping, night all |
| 06:58.08 | sybesis | me too |
| 06:58.11 | sybesis | good night |
| 06:58.19 | goodwill | I wonder if it will kill fr to run postgresql on it |
| 06:58.20 | doc|home | sybesis: there's always one fucker who has to speak french ;) |
| 06:58.33 | goodwill | cause that will just kill my iPhone loving friends.... |
| 06:58.37 | sybesis | ahahh oui |
| 06:58.38 | sybesis | :D |
| 06:58.42 | doc|home | hehe, night |
| 06:58.49 | raster | i doubt it |
| 06:59.00 | raster | your iphone lovign friends will still show off their multi-touch pinching |
| 06:59.02 | raster | and fast gfx |
| 06:59.08 | goodwill | meh |
| 06:59.09 | raster | :) |
| 06:59.13 | sybesis | quelque chose contre les francophones? :P |
| 06:59.19 | doc|home | and I'll show them me installing shit without paying anything |
| 06:59.27 | raster | and for that matter - postgres could run on the iphone |
| 06:59.33 | raster | just build it for it |
| 06:59.36 | goodwill | raster: they already whine they do nto have compiz on their macs...I got that part taken care off |
| 06:59.43 | raster | its a unix phone too |
| 06:59.44 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@213-132-206-101.adsl.nlhosting.nl) |
| 07:00.17 | sybesis | goodwill thats funny |
| 07:00.36 | goodwill | raster: yeah...but I bet noone has a iphone bsd substem package for it |
| 07:00.41 | raster | u'd not going to compete with the iphone on looks, speed, capacity, or anything that can be solved by just throwing money at the problem with high-powered hardware |
| 07:01.02 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@88.116.23.22) |
| 07:01.04 | goodwill | raster: look, I am going to have my fun regardless...stop ruinign it for me :-P |
| 07:01.15 | raster | the iphone will never be fully open and "Free" |
| 07:01.22 | raster | to hack with and screw with every bit u like |
| 07:01.29 | goodwill | raster: as logn as can put stuff on it they can not, that will do it |
| 07:01.32 | raster | uc an always throw postgres on mysql on |
| 07:01.37 | raster | u can port apps for it too eventually |
| 07:01.38 | raster | etc. |
| 07:01.48 | raster | but the freerunner will be free |
| 07:01.49 | raster | open |
| 07:02.00 | sybesis | raster: i do not care about hw the only thing i like most is to be able to put anything we like on it |
| 07:02.03 | *** join/#openmoko Moniker42 (n=sean@pdpc/supporter/student/Moniker42) |
| 07:02.07 | raster | u know for sure that every bit you rely on in the software stack is open and u can hack at it - if u want |
| 07:02.13 | raster | and u can audit the code if u dont trust us |
| 07:02.22 | alphabeat | raster: why, what did you do? |
| 07:02.26 | alphabeat | :P |
| 07:02.35 | raster | (and thnk we put in back-doors and ways of allowing governments to access your private data and communications) |
| 07:02.44 | *** join/#openmoko simon____ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 07:02.48 | sybesis | speedloop |
| 07:02.53 | raster | the iphone can never guarantee you that |
| 07:03.04 | alphabeat | iphone: nsa approved |
| 07:03.12 | raster | theres a black-box binary-only kernel, display system and other os utils/apps |
| 07:03.19 | sybesis | http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/06/securitymatters_0626 |
| 07:03.22 | raster | the same with ALL other phones |
| 07:03.26 | raster | closed black-boxes |
| 07:03.52 | raster | alphabeat: well.. i COULD put in stuff so every call or sms you send/recieve is recorded and relayed to me |
| 07:03.54 | raster | but really.. |
| 07:03.57 | Railer | oh theres a thought are these phones approved by industry canada? will they hit the border and be turned back? |
| 07:04.00 | raster | why would i want to know all of that |
| 07:04.05 | raster | i'd get bored! |
| 07:04.06 | raster | :) |
| 07:04.32 | raster | Railer: i doubt they are approved |
| 07:04.38 | raster | we do have fcc certs tho |
| 07:04.49 | alphabeat | raster: oh my conversations are pretty interesting! |
| 07:04.58 | Railer | well a fcc cert will usually get you a pass |
| 07:05.01 | lukhas | FCC / CE, that should be enough to clear any border |
| 07:05.03 | alphabeat | well not really |
| 07:05.08 | Railer | yup |
| 07:05.16 | raster | we have those |
| 07:05.25 | sybesis | Sounds like in the montreal user group people have gta01 |
| 07:05.28 | Railer | should be kosher then |
| 07:05.36 | sybesis | so there shouldn't be a problem with gta02 |
| 07:07.10 | goodwill | there are car usb chargers right? |
| 07:07.36 | raster | sybesis: gtood article - and if anything that is the kind of thing an open phone is intended to combat |
| 07:07.45 | sybesis | yup |
| 07:07.47 | raster | the ability for the world to control you and your data, your freedoms |
| 07:07.58 | Tig| | goodwill: well I have one so they exist :) |
| 07:08.00 | raster | comparing a freerunenr to the iphone is a bogus comparison |
| 07:08.02 | sybesis | imagine your attacked by a bear |
| 07:08.20 | goodwill | raster: ok...I was not comparing.... |
| 07:08.28 | Railer | raster why? ones a phone the other a hamster? |
| 07:08.30 | sybesis | and unfortunately your a zone you cant use your phone to make some high frequency noise to scare the bear |
| 07:08.31 | raster | if u go around saying "but iphone has multitouch" or "iphione has a faster cpu" or "iphone has 3g" or whatever |
| 07:08.35 | raster | as we're not about that |
| 07:08.46 | goodwill | raster: I said I am planning to put things on it that iPhone users can not...and make them said |
| 07:08.46 | *** join/#openmoko polaru (n=polaru@86.121.201.154) |
| 07:08.47 | raster | and frankly it will be a long time until we can compete in the space of spec-wars |
| 07:08.53 | goodwill | raster: can I please have my fun? |
| 07:08.57 | raster | we dont have the purchasing or development power of our competitors |
| 07:09.06 | raster | goodwill: you can |
| 07:09.10 | raster | not stopping you |
| 07:09.11 | raster | :) |
| 07:09.12 | goodwill | raster: thank you |
| 07:09.14 | goodwill | :-P |
| 07:09.23 | sybesis | raster: you don't actually need multitouch for most things the screen is too small anyway |
| 07:09.27 | raster | but dont "fool" yourself into thinking the FR is something that it isn';t |
| 07:09.28 | raster | :) |
| 07:09.31 | Railer | raster who are you? a engineer or developer? |
| 07:09.41 | Tig| | ouch |
| 07:09.51 | goodwill | raster: I use a super crappy 3 year old phone now |
| 07:09.53 | raster | Railer: yo momma |
| 07:09.55 | raster | :) |
| 07:10.18 | neldoreth | hey, a friend told me yesterday about some precompiled binaries for qemu - i only find some over the wiki for win32 - has someone of you an idea where i can get those? |
| 07:10.41 | Railer | i did not mean to offend, you sounded like someone in "the know" |
| 07:10.42 | goodwill | raster: I do not care about latest and greatest...just about openness, ability to chnage the device to fit me |
| 07:10.53 | neldoreth | im using the mokomakefile right now, but would be interesting and much easer for me :> |
| 07:10.57 | goodwill | neldoreth: are you running linux or windows? |
| 07:11.01 | neldoreth | goodwill linux |
| 07:11.14 | Railer | I just want something different unique and cool, with wifi |
| 07:11.17 | raster | Railer: i just had to use that line :) |
| 07:11.22 | goodwill | neldoreth: compiling is what you want to go with, its pretty fast |
| 07:11.23 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:11.24 | raster | Railer: whats the difference? engineer? developer? |
| 07:11.27 | goodwill | neldoreth: which distro? |
| 07:11.27 | raster | same thing |
| 07:11.33 | neldoreth | goodwill : archlinux |
| 07:11.52 | Railer | engineer hardware, developer software, |
| 07:11.54 | *** join/#openmoko tubastian (n=tubastia@tubs.cs.uni-paderborn.de) |
| 07:12.03 | goodwill | neldoreth: you are going to need gcc 3.3 or 3.4 |
| 07:12.11 | goodwill | neldoreth: and the make qemu |
| 07:12.11 | Railer | manager cash |
| 07:12.20 | *** join/#openmoko jfrousval (n=jfrousva@ARouen-152-1-16-70.w90-22.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:12.21 | neldoreth | goodwill : ah ok i got 4.3 |
| 07:12.34 | goodwill | neldoreth: and then make run-qemu (or make run-qemu-snapshot) |
| 07:12.46 | sybesis | engineer is for management too |
| 07:12.48 | goodwill | neldoreth: 4.3 is not good, it only compiles with 3.3 or 3.4 |
| 07:12.57 | sybesis | like how the app will be |
| 07:13.04 | Railer | engineer with an MBA maybe |
| 07:13.11 | neldoreth | goodwill : ok thx for the help - i will get the 3.4 now and try it :) |
| 07:13.22 | sybesis | the developer will do what the engineer told him to |
| 07:13.33 | sybesis | thats what engineer is here btw |
| 07:13.54 | raster | Railer: developer then. |
| 07:13.58 | raster | (software engineer) |
| 07:14.11 | goodwill | neldoreth: http://www.archlinux.org/packages/search/?q=gcc |
| 07:14.21 | goodwill | neldoreth: if 3.4 fails, try 3.3 |
| 07:14.28 | *** join/#openmoko a_thing (n=notroot@c-98-193-50-46.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 07:14.30 | goodwill | neldoreth: it fails for me on gentoo |
| 07:14.33 | neldoreth | goodwill yeah thats where i am already :D |
| 07:14.43 | neldoreth | goodwill ok then i will try 3.3 before |
| 07:14.45 | Railer | software engineer, just a programmer trying to look cool |
| 07:15.08 | raster | wel i sudied software engineering |
| 07:15.17 | raster | thats what the actual degree is called |
| 07:15.20 | sybesis | goodwill: i had it compiling with fedora 8 gcc 4.3 |
| 07:15.23 | raster | so you go argue with the university |
| 07:15.36 | sybesis | unless it installed old gcc without asking me |
| 07:15.45 | stefan_schmidt | mumbles something about lead of graphics |
| 07:15.48 | stefan_schmidt | yo yo raster |
| 07:15.51 | Railer | " wel i sudied " well you spell like an engineer |
| 07:15.52 | goodwill | sybesis: you had openmoko modified qemu copile under 4.3 ? |
| 07:16.16 | sybesis | goodwill: no modification |
| 07:16.27 | CIA-45 | openmoko: 03zecke * r30a442556fc7 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Revert various changes to Qt to layout, resize and paint only once |
| 07:16.27 | CIA-45 | openmoko: 03zecke * r708bb8a2206d 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qtopiaapplication.cpp: Revert "The ContextLabel was not updated for the "missed call" messagebox on qpe launch." |
| 07:16.27 | CIA-45 | openmoko: 03zecke * r69cc4bc30ea1 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/gui/kernel/qwidget_x11.cpp: [x11] Do not wait for the window manager, do something more useful |
| 07:16.29 | CIA-45 | openmoko: 03zecke * r7f4f8fcd35ab 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/gui/kernel/qwidget_x11.cpp: [x11] Set our wanted size before the WM got a chanche to set the size. |
| 07:16.31 | *** join/#openmoko roudoudou (n=roudoudo@gar31-1-82-224-8-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:16.32 | CIA-45 | openmoko: 03zecke * r862d64df0b1e 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [x11] Do not layout/resize/move/update until X11 tells us to do so |
| 07:16.33 | XorA | wonders what classification you get if your a qualified hardware engineer that does software :-) |
| 07:16.35 | goodwill | sybesis: openmoko qemu, not that one official one right? |
| 07:16.36 | raster | been writing, designing, optimising and everything else to do with software for 20+ years |
| 07:16.40 | raster | stefan_schmidt: yo yo! |
| 07:16.43 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: none? ;) |
| 07:16.53 | sybesis | goodwill give me the url i'll try it right now |
| 07:17.01 | raster | Railer: i can spell. i just typo. i likely can spell better than most. |
| 07:17.06 | sybesis | i'm a bit lost with the wiki |
| 07:17.16 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: That's new for me that you'r a hw engineer |
| 07:17.21 | raster | XorA: same. software engineer. |
| 07:17.27 | goodwill | sybesis: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Using_QEMU_with_MokoMakefile |
| 07:17.36 | goodwill | sybesis: and try make qemu |
| 07:17.42 | XorA | stefan_schmidt: my degree is in electrical engineering, just turns out Im bollocks at it :-) |
| 07:17.42 | raster | XorA: "programmers" generally just impelment the design they are given and told to implement |
| 07:17.50 | raster | they dont design anything |
| 07:17.56 | raster | just fill in the code blanks |
| 07:18.28 | raster | software engineers tend to do the design too but also get hands dirty |
| 07:18.40 | XorA | raster: that I would agree with |
| 07:18.41 | raster | "architects" mostly tend to just design and not get hands dirty |
| 07:18.50 | goodwill | raster: I hate that |
| 07:18.52 | sybesis | downloading every svgs :D |
| 07:18.53 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: ah, the part of my studies I kicked. I had a mixture of cs and ee before. Now cs only and doing low level software. ;) |
| 07:19.02 | raster | they may even never have learnt how to program and have no skills there |
| 07:19.07 | raster | but that depends |
| 07:19.09 | XorA | and developers write some html and think they are engineers |
| 07:19.20 | raster | they also may be ex-programmers or enigneers tired of the dirty-work |
| 07:19.31 | raster | XorA: hahahahaha |
| 07:19.34 | goodwill | XorA: woah, woah, woah...do not insult HTML programmers ;) |
| 07:19.36 | sybesis | but i probably installed it if i look at the wiki...i probably got in zombie mode |
| 07:19.45 | sybesis | and just copy pasted every line |
| 07:19.51 | stefan_schmidt | heh, you guys are working to long for an asia company. It'S not all about titles. |
| 07:19.52 | XorA | stefan_schmidt: I did work for 2 years at a mixed job, where I had to debug and SMT repair proto boards before we did the final layout |
| 07:20.09 | XorA | stefan_schmidt: but never found one of those since, no-one likes you doing both |
| 07:20.21 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: That was before your GSM BT job, so before your audio driver job? |
| 07:20.32 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: old guy, he? ;) |
| 07:20.34 | raster | stefan_schmidt: if the people you work for dont respect u without the title - it begins to be necessary |
| 07:20.36 | goodwill | elfo: did you succeed? |
| 07:20.50 | sybesis | downloading... |
| 07:20.54 | raster | :) |
| 07:20.56 | XorA | stefan_schmidt: heh, I switch around a lot |
| 07:21.00 | stefan_schmidt | raster: That's a problem, yes. |
| 07:21.06 | sybesis | trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/sounds/ringtone_supertux.rg |
| 07:21.11 | sybesis | :D |
| 07:21.11 | XorA | stefan_schmidt: Im only 2^5 |
| 07:21.18 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 07:21.32 | *** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 07:21.35 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 07:21.49 | goodwill | sybesis: it might take a while...I am off to bed...pm me with a message if you succeed |
| 07:21.56 | stefan_schmidt | gets 0x1B in for days. Still some time for more jobs. |
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| 07:22.08 | sybesis | goodwill: ok |
| 07:22.25 | pvborza | question: has anyone tried om-conf --prefix=some_dir . ? |
| 07:22.26 | XorA | me jobs so far, software for lasers shooting down missiles, 2 years as HW/SW consultant, 1 year writing gfx drivers, 6 months on BT, 5 years on SIMs, 1 year at wolfson, and here |
| 07:22.31 | goodwill | elfo: I am going to be compiling for Xnest x86 now...let me know if it worked for you |
| 07:23.21 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: oh, only one year at wolfson? OM got you away pretty fast. |
| 07:23.31 | sybesis | and yes for whoever asked for changing all the orange these are SVG file...hopefully the color aren't there...but as these are svg file someone could make a parser that parse every xml file and change the color |
| 07:23.32 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: Do you have such a laser around? ;) |
| 07:23.52 | XorA | stefan_schmidt: unfortuneately that project was for a defence contractor and on the road to total disaster |
| 07:24.04 | XorA | stefan_schmidt: they never made the lasers :-( |
| 07:24.09 | goodwill | sybesis: that was me...I was hoping they were are svg..should not be hard to change |
| 07:24.12 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: pitty |
| 07:24.32 | sybesis | QEMU is known to have problems when compiled with gcc 4.x |
| 07:24.33 | sybesis | It is recommended that you use gcc 3.x to build QEMU |
| 07:24.33 | sybesis | To use this compiler anyway, configure with --disable-gcc-check |
| 07:24.33 | sybesis | make: *** [setup-qemu] ÐÑибка 1 |
| 07:24.41 | XorA | although there is an Isreal plane with it installed these days, I saw it on the news a couple of years ago :-) |
| 07:25.08 | XorA | missiles were fired and strangely all missed the plane |
| 07:25.09 | sybesis | there is no configure script so i don't see how i can configure it |
| 07:26.07 | stefan_schmidt | XorA: So they have fixed all the bug you left in the software. ;) |
| 07:26.18 | sybesis | goodwill: unless you have any idea how to disable gcc check, it wont be possible |
| 07:26.19 | stefan_schmidt | ok, enough kidding. Need to get some work done. later guys |
| 07:26.26 | XorA | cya stefan_schmidt |
| 07:26.34 | goodwill | sybesis: you can specify --cc |
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| 07:28.25 | sybesis | hmmm |
| 07:28.29 | goodwill | sybesis: --cc=<path> I think |
| 07:28.34 | sybesis | ok |
| 07:28.42 | neldoreth | goodwill it took automatically the gcc-3.3 here :) - but i forget to say -j4 :> |
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| 07:29.16 | sybesis | doesnt work |
| 07:30.35 | goodwill | sybesis: maybe the make file ignores...its would be easy to patch or what not... |
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| 07:30.55 | goodwill | sybesis: but I doubt qemu will compile with 4.3...the official qemu source does nto as far as I know |
| 07:31.08 | goodwill | neldoreth: yeah it autodetects |
| 07:31.12 | sybesis | i'm working on it..just look at what exactly does the MakeFile |
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| 07:33.21 | goodwill | sybesis: try |
| 07:33.28 | goodwill | CC=gcc-3.3.6; export CC |
| 07:33.30 | sybesis | found it wait a sec |
| 07:33.32 | goodwill | somethign like that |
| 07:33.40 | goodwill | or just specify |
| 07:33.45 | goodwill | CC=gcc-3.3.6 make |
| 07:33.49 | neldoreth | goodwill worked fine and is booting right now :) thank you |
| 07:33.50 | goodwill | on command line |
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| 07:34.03 | goodwill | neldoreth: cool...did you get the official images? |
| 07:35.11 | spydon | which resellers???? |
| 07:35.33 | SpeedEvil | spyre: links from openmoko.com |
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| 07:35.39 | SpeedEvil | none in US |
| 07:35.39 | SpeedEvil | spydon |
| 07:35.45 | spydon | nice, thx SpeedEvil |
| 07:35.51 | spydon | SpeedEvil, eu? |
| 07:35.58 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 07:36.00 | goodwill | spydon: pretty much |
| 07:36.06 | Tig| | truebox in the UK have |
| 07:36.06 | SpeedEvil | 3 I think, uk,fr,de |
| 07:36.16 | spydon | nice |
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| 07:36.26 | spydon | de, is that denmark? |
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| 07:36.32 | Tig| | as mine arrived yesterday :) |
| 07:36.35 | SpeedEvil | Deutchland |
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| 07:36.39 | spydon | okay |
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| 07:36.59 | goodwill | Tig|: shiny eh? |
| 07:37.05 | Tig| | yep :) |
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| 07:37.52 | sybesis | it building |
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| 07:38.32 | goodwill | sybesis: using 4.3? |
| 07:38.45 | sybesis | yup i had to add a line to the make file |
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| 07:38.54 | sybesis | doesn't have any error for now |
| 07:39.18 | goodwill | sybesis: if it succeeds that will be interesting |
| 07:39.40 | sybesis | it doesn't but it seems to fail on some sort of lisp code |
| 07:39.43 | sybesis | :| |
| 07:39.53 | sybesis | (set (mem/s/j:DI (plus:SI (plus:SI (mult:SI (reg/f:SI 59) |
| 07:39.54 | sybesis | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:39.54 | sybesis | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:39.54 | sybesis | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:39.54 | sybesis | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:39.56 | sybesis | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:39.58 | sybesis | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:40.00 | sybesis | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:40.11 | sybesis | scheme or lisp |
| 07:40.24 | sybesis | or some other language i do not know |
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| 07:41.55 | goodwill | sybesis: anyhow as far as I know qemu does nto build with gcc about 3.3 or 3.4 |
| 07:42.09 | sybesis | confirmed :D |
| 07:42.09 | goodwill | nite nite |
| 07:42.13 | sybesis | good nigth |
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| 07:51.04 | hepaajan | mickeyl: so, did the russia - spain result please you? |
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| 07:52.04 | mickeyl | well |
| 07:52.08 | mickeyl | i was a bit disappointed |
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| 07:52.29 | mickeyl | my bets were on the russians |
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| 07:52.34 | mickeyl | but they were too tired |
| 07:53.03 | hepaajan | they certainly have played some good football in earlier games |
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| 07:53.15 | mickeyl | indeed. the one vs. the netherlands was classy |
| 07:53.31 | mickeyl | but perhaps it's good |
| 07:53.39 | mickeyl | now spain is the favorite |
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| 07:53.54 | mickeyl | if it was us against russion we had more psychological pressure |
| 07:54.09 | mickeyl | argh, my spelling sucks this morning |
| 07:54.30 | hepaajan | perhaps you are still shocked :) |
| 07:54.38 | stefan_schmidt | no wonder, it is not even 10 an you are awake :) |
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| 07:59.51 | mickeyl | indeed |
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| 08:00.01 | mickeyl | woke up together with Sabine tody (07:00) |
| 08:00.11 | mickeyl | gave her a ride to the office and we had breakfast there |
| 08:00.13 | raster | wayy too early dude! |
| 08:00.16 | mickeyl | *nod* |
| 08:00.19 | raster | :) |
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| 08:00.55 | Moniker42 | <mickeyl> gave her a ride to the office and we had breakfast there |
| 08:00.57 | Moniker42 | comments could be made. |
| 08:01.07 | mickeyl | ah well |
| 08:01.07 | Moniker42 | innuendo could be let loose... but i won't :) |
| 08:01.10 | mickeyl | that may be ambigous |
| 08:01.22 | mickeyl | it's not what you think |
| 08:01.29 | mickeyl | i can do nothing @ 07:00 ;) |
| 08:01.39 | Moniker42 | heh |
| 08:01.57 | Moniker42 | you know, i've just realised something... |
| 08:02.07 | mickeyl | *cough* |
| 08:02.13 | XorA | avoids the coffee viagra comparisons :-) |
| 08:02.15 | Moniker42 | after all this waiting for the freerunner, i've realised that now it is being released *i don't actually have the money available* |
| 08:02.16 | raster | whats wrong with a bit of innuendo! |
| 08:02.20 | raster | bring it on, i say! |
| 08:02.25 | mickeyl | Moniker42: bummer :/ |
| 08:02.27 | mickeyl | XorA: :) |
| 08:02.30 | Moniker42 | raster, that's what she said. |
| 08:02.42 | raster | :) |
| 08:02.52 | Moniker42 | although she didn't say "innuendo" |
| 08:02.59 | Moniker42 | that part of the sentence cannot be repeated... |
| 08:04.10 | raster | hahahah |
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| 08:28.14 | BlackFog | hi @ll |
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| 08:34.53 | nezza-_- | raster: are you interested in hearing about commercial products which are using edje? |
| 08:35.04 | raster | nezza-_-: sure! |
| 08:35.08 | raster | i know of a few |
| 08:35.20 | raster | but i likely havent kept track of most |
| 08:35.38 | nezza-_- | raster: okay.. cause im actually developing on one. it will run on a embedded plattrform and go into the mainstream in about 2-3 month |
| 08:35.55 | nezza-_- | raster: if the status is open enough to tell you details, i will write you :) |
| 08:36.17 | raster | nezza-_-: cool! what is it? |
| 08:36.47 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK (i=root@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 08:37.15 | nezza-_- | raster: it's the future of building traffic management ;) i will write to you if i can be sure that the project status is in the phase where we can talk open about all the details ;) |
| 08:37.40 | raster | a building traffic? |
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| 08:53.13 | BlackFog | does some1 know if Spacemarine (Karlsruhe group sales) is here from time to time? |
| 08:56.14 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@213-132-206-101.adsl.nlhosting.nl) |
| 09:07.58 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@vpne048.ugent.be) |
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| 09:15.15 | *** part/#openmoko charlie138 (n=guillaum@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 09:20.05 | *** join/#openmoko d3vice (n=pedro@a213-22-207-230.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 09:20.09 | d3vice | g'morning |
| 09:21.33 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 09:26.30 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=mbarre@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:26.33 | *** join/#openmoko ccube_ (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
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| 09:31.24 | *** join/#openmoko Varox-DT (n=Varox@p4FD452A4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:31.55 | *** join/#openmoko |R (n=bob@dsl-67-212-21-145.acanac.net) |
| 09:34.32 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=aldwulf@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 09:38.01 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=broedje@92.116.20.178) |
| 09:38.34 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@xsftbnupc02.upc.es) |
| 09:43.20 | *** join/#openmoko johnl (n=johnl@cpc1-leds8-0-0-cust743.leed.cable.ntl.com) |
| 09:45.18 | *** join/#openmoko Tanya (n=_@unaffiliated/tanya) |
| 09:45.23 | Tanya | halooo |
| 09:45.39 | Tanya | alooo oooo OOooOOoo |
| 09:46.02 | dvarnes | oooollaaaah |
| 09:46.40 | Tanya | i need free BNC now ! |= |
| 09:47.19 | Tanya | do you know where can i find it????? and just don't tell me to google it :S |
| 09:47.23 | Tanya | helloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 09:47.37 | cekay | i need free beer |
| 09:48.05 | Tanya | Good. |
| 09:48.10 | OJW | BNC = british naval connector? |
| 09:48.17 | *** join/#openmoko txtshell (n=txtshell@franck4.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE) |
| 09:48.27 | Tanya | lol |
| 09:49.06 | Tanya | it's a bouncer... x| |
| 09:49.47 | Tanya | i can't believe that no one on this <censored> geek server can't help me find one! it's totally lame... |
| 09:50.00 | *** join/#openmoko apol_ (n=apol@xsftbnupc02.upc.es) |
| 09:51.08 | zedstar | BNC reminds me of annoying ethernet cabling days |
| 09:51.31 | johnl | zedstar, lol |
| 09:51.32 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=ahacic@89-212-198-5.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net) |
| 09:51.35 | dvarnes | hmm... crimping tools |
| 09:51.53 | Tanya | :S |
| 09:52.23 | zedstar | undoing a segment and taking the whole LAN down |
| 09:53.29 | *** join/#openmoko jzoef (n=jzoef@145.116.3.136) |
| 09:53.51 | johnl | zedstar, I still have about 10 bnc network cards and a few cables. haven't got the heart to throw them out. |
| 09:53.51 | *** join/#openmoko herby2 (n=herby3@e180071045.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:54.00 | johnl | surely *someone* will need them one day? no? |
| 09:54.19 | zedstar | johnl lol yeh a museum |
| 09:54.27 | johnl | new bug: "the Freerunner lacks a bnc connector" |
| 09:54.28 | *** part/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 09:54.45 | mjr | has two token ring cards... |
| 09:55.48 | zedstar | never seen a token ring |
| 09:56.06 | cekay | one token ring to rule them all ... |
| 09:57.43 | zedstar | the amount of times ive seen exam questions on token ring network though!!!! |
| 09:59.21 | XorA | ~curse token ring |
| 09:59.22 | apt | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, token ring ! |
| 09:59.31 | zedstar | lol |
| 09:59.36 | zedstar | cutting |
| 09:59.57 | *** part/#openmoko Tanya (n=_@unaffiliated/tanya) |
| 10:00.27 | zedstar | so anyone know what BNC she was on about? lol |
| 10:00.59 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 10:01.30 | XorA | Basic Network Connection |
| 10:01.31 | *** part/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 10:01.43 | dvarnes | I think --> http://www.gotbnc.com/ |
| 10:02.05 | XorA | ah yeah |
| 10:02.13 | XorA | forgets he is actually using a BNC :_) |
| 10:02.18 | dvarnes | :-) |
| 10:02.33 | XorA | my next guess was too rude to put in channel |
| 10:02.33 | zedstar | ah! |
| 10:02.51 | dvarnes | how restrained of you :-) |
| 10:05.58 | *** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 10:07.13 | *** join/#openmoko sindre (n=sindre@084202200091.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 10:07.54 | Karrde | mmm. thick ethernet |
| 10:11.04 | nibbler_ | thick ethernet in the datacenter is almost as disgusting as: http://de.fishki.net/picsw/062008/27/prislannoe/tn.jpg |
| 10:12.49 | XorA | mmmmm, pork |
| 10:14.19 | johnl | nibbler_, wtf?? |
| 10:15.25 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@host-84-220-77-122.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 10:15.40 | *** part/#openmoko zyhong (n=chatzill@61.148.17.142) |
| 10:17.31 | zedstar | wondered what happened to miss piggy |
| 10:20.42 | *** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=ahacic@lk.84.20.227.185.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net) |
| 10:20.50 | jzoef | I want to order a freerunner in the Netherlands. I found a webshop in Germany, pulster.de. can I trust that site? |
| 10:21.07 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-218-127-242.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:23.00 | XorA | jzoef: OM trusts them |
| 10:31.01 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * re79f152e2de8 10/framework/console: rename framework to console |
| 10:31.02 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rdceb0c6b7481 10/ (ChangeLog framework/subsystems/oeventd/receiver.py): document bus name changes in ChangeLog and adjust oeventd to match it |
| 10:31.02 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r2977a1be1b91 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/modems/abstract/ (call.py mediator.py pdp.py): ophoned: refactor abstract call handling and pdp handling into own modem-specific module |
| 10:31.04 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r9bf97460d6cb 10/framework/subsystems/ophoned/ (4 files in 3 dirs): ophoned: add preliminary handling of org.freesmartphone.PDP.{ActivateContext|DeactivateContext} |
| 10:31.07 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rf772508de006 10/ (4 files in 2 dirs): rename console to cli-framework and adjust setup.py |
| 10:32.09 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176100045.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:34.56 | *** join/#openmoko Gyb (n=Gyb@f053153126.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 10:35.28 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=aldwulf@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 10:37.30 | CIA-26 | openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rc4a11bcb1ae1 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: up illume to rev120 - had theme problem. 100% cpu usage with infinite timer. |
| 10:38.30 | Tanuva | yeeha, 5.7. will be a happy day :] |
| 10:38.52 | johnl | 5.7? |
| 10:39.18 | Tanuva | 7/5/2008 or 5.7.2008, depends on where you are from :) |
| 10:39.18 | cga | 5th of July? |
| 10:39.22 | Tanuva | yep |
| 10:39.26 | cga | indeed =) |
| 10:40.01 | cga | i'm gonna order mine later on if the group doesn't cut it in 2 days |
| 10:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko Bumbl (n=Unknown@91-113-125-121.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 10:40.51 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@80-219-0-98.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:41.01 | johnl | ah that when the USA catch up eh? ;) |
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| 10:45.14 | *** join/#openmoko erwin (n=erwin@111.103.82-79.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 10:48.39 | erwin | I would like to code a C++ helloword for the freerunner, what in the wiki is the best page to learn that ? I know "/Host-based_development_with_Xoo_and_Xephyr" but it feels like a howto for the GTA01 isn't it ? |
| 10:51.16 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-218-127-242.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:51.38 | zedstar | a gui based hello world or command line? |
| 10:52.19 | erwin | I whould like to do the both, a command is simpler isn't it ? |
| 10:53.03 | zedstar | well yeh |
| 10:53.24 | mjr | there isn't very much magic involved, it _will_ run basically the same apps as a small memory desktop system... |
| 10:53.59 | mjr | if you're doing c++, you might of course use the qtopia libs, I dunno about that myself |
| 10:54.26 | zedstar | the basic principle is same on any cross compilation......just use the cross gcc to compile and and scp the binary over and run it |
| 10:54.47 | zedstar | so first u need to setup your cross tools |
| 10:55.27 | zedstar | which u can do with mokomakefile |
| 10:56.33 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201.45.49.162) |
| 10:56.56 | erwin | hum ok thank you, so is "/Host-based_development_with_Xoo_and_Xephyr" a good start ? |
| 10:57.04 | *** join/#openmoko feis (n=feis@static.5.133.47.78.clients.your-server.de) |
| 10:57.27 | zedstar | personally i dont use those as i just write on desktop and then cross compile when im ready |
| 10:57.40 | zedstar | but i dont do gui stuff |
| 10:57.55 | mjr | likes python himself, so no compiling ;P |
| 10:58.15 | erwin | I didn't understand why you don't need Xoo ? |
| 10:58.43 | erwin | *sorry, I'm a classical desktop/web developer from now so a little lost in cross compilation |
| 10:58.48 | zedstar | im not doing anythng that has a gui right now so i can just run same code on desktop and my neo |
| 10:59.47 | erwin | Ok. |
| 11:00.22 | zedstar | there is a more high level approach to building things using bitbake and openembedded but probably i would start with hello world in a simple setup building by hand |
| 11:00.31 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: 03heikki.paajanen 07gsmd2 * rcfdeb8d37ab0 10/ (20 files in 3 dirs): |
| 11:00.31 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: Random fixes and cleanups |
| 11:00.31 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: Implemented per vendor unit test configurations (and support for ticalypsoneo1973) |
| 11:00.31 | CIA-26 | freesmartphone.org: Implemented experimental call monitoring for modems that don't send all changes in call status |
| 11:01.42 | erwin | So the principe is : To do a console hello word I juste need gcc but to be able to compile it for a openmoko, i need mokomakefile ? |
| 11:02.12 | zedstar | there is also a tarballed toolchain but ive not tried that |
| 11:02.24 | zedstar | but mokomakefile will setup some tools for u |
| 11:02.28 | erwin | And is it possible to write c++ code for openmoko with Qtopia and try it on desktop ? |
| 11:02.47 | zedstar | i dunno bout c++ and qtopia never tried |
| 11:03.13 | erwin | Ok. Thanks for your help, i'll look at mokomakefile |
| 11:03.28 | mjr | would seem to be likely, since there's qvfb and now a semi-operational X11 port of qtopia for OM's purposes; you'd probably best ask ljp about the most straightforward way to do that |
| 11:04.19 | mjr | he's the local qtopia evangelist; I'm sure if you ignore all the hype and skip to the technical bits he has some useful info |
| 11:04.20 | opendeep | I build one sample package in openmoko , it's created success fully then i replaced my source code with the example's source code but when I "make rebuild-package-<name>" it created the package for the previous one |
| 11:06.15 | erwin | mjr: Yes I'm a littlebit confused on this point. I don't really know if the freerunner i've bougth will come with the openmoko GUI i know or a new Qtopia interface ? |
| 11:06.15 | opendeep | any idea, how rebuild package works? |
| 11:06.40 | erwin | opendeep: Try make clean |
| 11:07.13 | stefan_schmidt | erwin: gtk |
| 11:07.56 | mjr | erwin, I don't know what it'll come with either, but the now-hip ASU seems to basically be X11, with qtopia phone apps (possibly other, but phone apps being the core), plus other gtk and efl apps. |
| 11:09.56 | erwin | so why stefan_schmidt says it will be gtk ? |
| 11:10.02 | *** join/#openmoko arndot (n=arndt@port-92-196-21-109.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 11:10.44 | stefan_schmidt | erwin: Because he has a freerunner and worked for OM. |
| 11:10.46 | johnl | erwin, mine came with the gtk thing. 2007.2 or whatever. |
| 11:10.53 | stefan_schmidt | erwin: ASU is meant as *update* |
| 11:10.59 | dvarnes | AFAIK they are *not* shipping with ASU, they are coming with the stable 2007.2 |
| 11:11.12 | stefan_schmidt | anyway, have to go. bye |
| 11:12.03 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176100045.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:12.12 | erwin | thanks okay |
| 11:12.16 | *** join/#openmoko VDVsx (n=VDVsx@bl10-78-215.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 11:12.23 | *** join/#openmoko grummel (n=christia@cl-13.dus-01.de.sixxs.net) |
| 11:15.27 | zedstar | erwin what i try and do now is just start with a basic autoconf based program and work from that.....the nice thing about that is u can automate building an ipk from it later with openembedded |
| 11:16.06 | zedstar | erwin and u can find hello world c++ autoconf based examples out there |
| 11:16.58 | erwin | ok, you mean on the wiki ? |
| 11:18.15 | zedstar | well for a basic command line hello world autoconf project just search google |
| 11:18.26 | *** join/#openmoko surf2me (n=surfer@unixboard/users/surf2me) |
| 11:19.08 | zedstar | openembedded can take that and automagically package it when u ready |
| 11:19.15 | zedstar | it is pretty kewl really |
| 11:22.11 | *** join/#openmoko Tig| (n=tigger@82.153.215.237) |
| 11:26.45 | *** join/#openmoko reinhold (i=reinhold@kde/kainhofe) |
| 11:26.57 | *** join/#openmoko rtm (n=rtm@pool-151-199-37-132.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 11:29.15 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=ahacic@84-255-246-158.static.t-2.net) |
| 11:29.22 | *** join/#openmoko Ainulindale (n=ainu@calaquendi.org) |
| 11:29.31 | Ainulindale | Hey there. |
| 11:30.44 | Ainulindale | If by any chance there's a french person here who has some information on group sales in Paris, I would be glad to know :-) |
| 11:32.08 | reinhold | Can anyone here confirm that the Freerunner is ready for every-day use? |
| 11:32.34 | johnl | reinhold, um. depends on what you'll want to do every day. |
| 11:32.47 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=mbarre@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:33.00 | johnl | reinhold, mine can make and receive calls/smses ok. |
| 11:33.06 | johnl | but wireless isn't working for me. |
| 11:33.22 | reinhold | johnl: Regular use as a GSM phone: doing calls and be called ;-) |
| 11:33.34 | Ainulindale | MarcOChapeau: Y aurait moyen de te parler en privé deux secondes ? (sorry for the english people, just trying to be understood by some other french :-) ) |
| 11:33.52 | reinhold | johnl: Ah, nice. How's the quality of the calls? |
| 11:33.55 | cga | just bought his Free Runner + pouch + hearplugs from pulster! |
| 11:34.07 | Ainulindale | cga: Now I'm jealous :-) |
| 11:34.08 | reinhold | johnl: I suppose the wireless issue is only a software problem, not hardware? |
| 11:34.09 | johnl | didn't get his pouch or earplugs :( |
| 11:34.32 | Tig| | reinhold: it looks like software |
| 11:34.50 | johnl | reinhold, yeah. i can see it in terminal. just gui seems mssing. |
| 11:35.44 | reinhold | Nice, so I can order it and use it as my mobile phone, too, not only as a geek toy for programming ;-) |
| 11:36.02 | Ainulindale | Well, nobody seems to know the whereabouts of the Paris, France, group sale :-/ |
| 11:36.05 | borg_ | johnl: how long does the batterie hold with your freerunner? |
| 11:37.47 | Tig| | hmm anyone know what the dhcp client is called in OM? |
| 11:37.47 | johnl | borg_, with diaily image of the 25th June, i went to sleep with a full charge and it looked to be less than 10% 6 hours later :/ |
| 11:37.53 | johnl | that was with suspend enabled |
| 11:38.04 | johnl | but again, that is likely software. |
| 11:38.32 | Tig| | the battery gauge is not very accurate imho it seems to yoyo a bit |
| 11:38.52 | borg_ | johnl: ah ok, then i will wait and use my neo1973 until there is a reasonable battery time :) |
| 11:38.55 | *** join/#openmoko xMDKx (n=mdkcore@nat/mandriva/x-5817293bc5fad50c) |
| 11:39.26 | johnl | borg_, i'm sure it's just software. i see neod using cpu all the time for no good reason |
| 11:39.29 | johnl | and pulseaudio |
| 11:39.44 | johnl | this is with a random daily build remember |
| 11:42.06 | zlfita | did pulster start to sell? |
| 11:42.48 | borg_ | yes |
| 11:42.49 | mjr | they are willing to take orders and are expecting the shipment next Thursday |
| 11:43.57 | *** join/#openmoko christooss2 (n=ahacic@lk.84.20.227.185.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net) |
| 11:44.08 | Ainulindale | Argh. And no news about the group sales for us. I'll never get one :-/ |
| 11:46.47 | txtshell | I'm biggest fear for Freerunner minimal everyday phone usage is battery time and reliable resume... |
| 11:47.01 | *** join/#openmoko Varox-DT (n=Varox@p4FD452A4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:47.53 | txtshell | i'd wish'd know some resource that can convince me that it's just software and get's fixed... |
| 11:49.21 | *** join/#openmoko andrenarchy (i=andre@weissburgunder.am.uni-erlangen.de) |
| 11:51.13 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@211.84-49-138.nextgentel.com) |
| 11:52.22 | zlfita | my logic says it's software |
| 11:52.35 | zlfita | but i can't gurantee, of course |
| 11:53.10 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@211.84-49-138.nextgentel.com) |
| 11:53.22 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK_ (i=root@artekw.cerbero.pl) |
| 11:54.16 | zlfita | do we have any estimates about when the official shop will open? And shipping costs from there? |
| 11:54.18 | txtshell | i think there have been lab tests where it worked well, at least without gsm. |
| 11:54.47 | txtshell | but i don't know about any lab tests where it worked with gsm active and call waking up.... |
| 11:55.31 | txtshell | zlfita: there has been a mail to the annouce list for the time to open. some of the resellers already have opened or posted timelines. |
| 11:55.53 | txtshell | shipping is afaik UPS from fremont, US for the openmoko.com webshop.... |
| 11:56.06 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 11:56.14 | CVirus | can I chose the EU or US FreeRunner version from the shop ? |
| 11:56.24 | CVirus | choose* |
| 11:56.31 | Tig| | CVirus: that is how I read it |
| 11:56.34 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-84-138.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 11:57.10 | Tig| | if you are in the EU though would it not be easier to get one from a reseller? |
| 11:57.27 | Ainulindale | If a reseller still has it... |
| 11:57.33 | lukhas | plus, from a reseller, you get extra gadgets (pouch, headset) |
| 11:57.38 | CVirus | I think pulster is the cheapest reseller http://www.pulster.de/ |
| 11:57.53 | lukhas | yep, they're 30 euros cheaper than us :) |
| 11:58.06 | Tig| | lukhas: well you should but mine did not arrive :( |
| 11:58.26 | cga | lukhas, you don't get extras for free from pulster |
| 11:58.29 | lukhas | did not arrive? what do you mean ? |
| 11:58.33 | lukhas | cga: oh, really ? |
| 11:58.33 | Tig| | but they e-mailed me first to warn me and ask if I still wanted to go ahead :) |
| 11:58.52 | lukhas | than that's an advantage for us :) |
| 11:58.59 | cga | Tig|, yours didn't arrive?? where from? |
| 11:59.09 | Tig| | the pouch and headphones were not in the package from OM |
| 11:59.15 | lukhas | no, not from OM |
| 11:59.23 | lukhas | they're only in bulk order |
| 11:59.27 | CVirus | who ships the pouch and the earphone ? |
| 11:59.31 | lukhas | 10 pack group or reseller |
| 11:59.46 | CVirus | I mean who offers them with the phone |
| 11:59.55 | lukhas | we do, at Bearstech |
| 12:00.00 | CVirus | link ? |
| 12:00.02 | lukhas | but I'm surprised pulster does not |
| 12:00.03 | Ainulindale | lukhas: you did |
| 12:00.16 | lukhas | CVirus: shop down at the moment, we're out of stock :) |
| 12:00.22 | cga | lukhas, it might be that they don't offer them to single orders |
| 12:00.25 | Ainulindale | lukhas: You don't since this morning as I unfortunately saw it 20 minutes ago |
| 12:00.28 | Ainulindale | lukhas: and I hate you for that |
| 12:00.42 | lukhas | did you place an order ? |
| 12:00.47 | CVirus | no |
| 12:00.48 | cga | me? yes |
| 12:00.51 | Ainulindale | lukhas: But I'll forgive you as soon as you'll have another bulk :-p |
| 12:00.52 | lukhas | Ainulindale: if you did, it will be honoured, of course |
| 12:00.58 | CVirus | lukhas: when are you getting another batch of FreeRunners ? |
| 12:01.04 | Ainulindale | lukhas: I was planning to do it, but was trying to have some information about group sales |
| 12:01.05 | lukhas | CVirus: don't know |
| 12:01.10 | lukhas | the sooner the better |
| 12:01.14 | Tig| | meh, hang on things are getting muddled :) I bought my phone from truebox (UK reseller) and they said they would include what ever OM sent them but in their bulk order (might have been an early one) the pouches and headphones were missing, they then mailed me to make sure I still wanted to go ahead and I did :) |
| 12:01.36 | lukhas | Tig|: I see |
| 12:01.37 | lukhas | hmm |
| 12:01.38 | Tig| | if they turn up later they said they will forward them on :) |
| 12:01.39 | CVirus | lukhas: you mind telling me how phones have you sold so far ? |
| 12:01.44 | Ainulindale | lukhas: Because it seemed to me that it was a little bit expensive compared to the euro/dollar parity |
| 12:01.47 | lukhas | CVirus: almost 100 |
| 12:01.57 | CVirus | I see |
| 12:01.58 | lukhas | Ainulindale: French VAT, adds 50 euros |
| 12:02.10 | CVirus | brb .. smoke |
| 12:02.12 | lukhas | there goes your parity :) |
| 12:02.18 | Ainulindale | lukhas: Yep that's what I thought and that's why I was trying to get some information about group sales :-) |
| 12:02.20 | jzoef | i just ordered from pulster, i hope they won't be sold out as well |
| 12:02.33 | lukhas | plus, we don't get a huge rebate since we only ordered a 100 phones |
| 12:02.48 | Ainulindale | lukhas: But I'm ready to come to your office location just to pick one as soon as it's available |
| 12:02.56 | Ainulindale | lukhas: And to offer you a pint of guinness of course |
| 12:03.10 | lukhas | I don't like beer :) |
| 12:03.24 | Ainulindale | Gah. I hate you more by the minute :-) |
| 12:03.27 | lukhas | hehe |
| 12:03.44 | lukhas | we should reopen the store this afternoon |
| 12:03.54 | cga | lukhas, link? |
| 12:03.56 | Ainulindale | lukhas: Do you take tickets restaurants ? |
| 12:03.59 | lukhas | bearstech.com/shop |
| 12:04.03 | lukhas | Ainulindale: nope |
| 12:04.07 | Ainulindale | Aw man. |
| 12:04.11 | Ainulindale | Too bad. |
| 12:04.24 | lukhas | check, wire transfer, paypal |
| 12:04.38 | lukhas | dealing whith customers is such a pain :) |
| 12:04.46 | Ainulindale | Yep, I went to your website 20 times a day fingering the "order" button.. |
| 12:04.59 | d3vice | anyone know the vat for portugal? |
| 12:04.59 | Ainulindale | I'm pretty familiar with it now :-p |
| 12:05.15 | lukhas | d3vice: you pay the VAT from the seller, anyway :) |
| 12:05.19 | XorA | wow I never thought I would see the day people are actually buying freerunner |
| 12:05.46 | d3vice | 50 � |
| 12:05.47 | Ainulindale | lukhas: the next order will be at the same price/offer ? |
| 12:06.09 | lukhas | Ainulindale: yes |
| 12:06.26 | lukhas | we may or may not get the sd card/stylus offer |
| 12:06.29 | lukhas | depending on their stock |
| 12:06.35 | Ainulindale | Sic'. |
| 12:06.52 | lukhas | woohoo, from our contact at openmoko just now : "I will say shipping date is before next Wednesday (2nd July)" |
| 12:06.54 | Ainulindale | I'm willing to do the deer eyes thingie if necessary, don't tempt me. |
| 12:07.25 | lukhas | just when everybody will be away from the office, great |
| 12:07.35 | Ainulindale | Arf :-) |
| 12:07.59 | Ainulindale | (Means that with a good timing and a big truck... :-p) |
| 12:07.59 | lukhas | we share the office with our sister company, they will keep an eye on it |
| 12:09.09 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=mbarre@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:09.16 | Ainulindale | Tiens vous avez pas une offre sécurité |
| 12:09.38 | lukhas | nope, we're web hosters |
| 12:09.39 | Ainulindale | Hmmpf, sorry, switching to french without paying attention |
| 12:09.43 | lukhas | security is hard to sell |
| 12:09.49 | lukhas | unless you scare your customers |
| 12:09.53 | jfrousval | tiens du français :) |
| 12:09.58 | Ainulindale | You tell me... I'm in that kind of line |
| 12:10.10 | Ainulindale | (but for a big SSII so it's not my part to sell) |
| 12:10.13 | Ainulindale | jfrousval: coin \_o< |
| 12:10.37 | lukhas | :) |
| 12:12.19 | Ainulindale | I'm so angry I didn't click on that buttony esterday |
| 12:12.26 | Ainulindale | s/y / y/ |
| 12:12.39 | Ainulindale | apt: Ok I get it, I fumbled my sed. |
| 12:12.40 | apt | You get it, I fumbled my sed.? |
| 12:12.47 | Ainulindale | I love stupid scripts :-) |
| 12:12.56 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-175-008.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:13.28 | lukhas | :) |
| 12:13.44 | lukhas | we still have few units in stock, anyway |
| 12:14.05 | lukhas | we plan to sell them directly to customers, on www.lacantine.org |
| 12:14.07 | Ainulindale | Hmmmmpf. How can I corrupt you ? :-p |
| 12:14.16 | lukhas | which Where Hi-Tech Stuff Happens, these days |
| 12:14.22 | lukhas | which si |
| 12:14.28 | lukhas | which is, damnit |
| 12:14.41 | Ainulindale | :-) |
| 12:14.43 | lukhas | nothing sure for the moment |
| 12:15.10 | Ainulindale | lukhas: I've got my checkbook and the keys of my car right next to me :-): |
| 12:15.10 | lukhas | especially since no one around us seems to have a credit card reader to accept payments |
| 12:15.47 | lukhas | what car is it? |
| 12:15.52 | Ainulindale | haha :-p |
| 12:15.57 | lukhas | I don't take diesels |
| 12:15.58 | Ainulindale | a crappy '94 twingo |
| 12:15.59 | Ainulindale | (vintage) |
| 12:16.00 | lukhas | or French cars |
| 12:16.02 | lukhas | too bad |
| 12:16.14 | Ainulindale | With tons of Zappa's CDs in it |
| 12:18.13 | CVirus | lukhas: how much do you sell the FreeRunner for ? |
| 12:18.28 | lukhas | CVirus: 320 EUR + shipping |
| 12:18.50 | CVirus | lukhas: what accessories ? |
| 12:18.51 | lukhas | 26 EUR shipping outside France :/ |
| 12:19.04 | CVirus | 26 EUR worldwide ? |
| 12:19.06 | lukhas | hmm, pouch, headset |
| 12:19.17 | *** join/#openmoko raff (n=raff@77-57-76-82.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:19.34 | lukhas | that's called "International", I expect it to be around the world, yes |
| 12:20.43 | CVirus | that's 545 dollars |
| 12:20.44 | CVirus | hmm |
| 12:20.51 | lukhas | (+ warranty) |
| 12:20.58 | CVirus | how much for that ? |
| 12:21.11 | lukhas | that's included, that's what I meant :) |
| 12:21.12 | *** join/#openmoko raff (n=raff@77-57-76-82.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:21.23 | CVirus | I see |
| 12:21.26 | lukhas | even though I wonder how painful it is to guarantee it wordwide |
| 12:21.39 | CVirus | what type of guarantee ? |
| 12:22.01 | lukhas | 1 year on defects |
| 12:22.10 | CVirus | can't I wipe the guarantee off ? |
| 12:22.13 | CVirus | I don't need it .. I live in Egypt |
| 12:22.19 | lukhas | basically the French / European typical warranty |
| 12:22.29 | lukhas | yes you can wipe it, but we won't lower the price :) |
| 12:22.36 | CVirus | hehe |
| 12:22.48 | lukhas | it's not like we're making millions of profit on it to begin with |
| 12:23.12 | CVirus | neither Openmoko Inc is doing millions of profit |
| 12:23.15 | lukhas | we plan to publish our sales figures later |
| 12:23.21 | lukhas | yeah |
| 12:23.38 | lukhas | but my company has to pay both me and openmoko to work on reselling it |
| 12:23.52 | lukhas | (yes, I'm paid !) |
| 12:23.57 | lukhas | (to hang on IRC all day) |
| 12:24.09 | CVirus | lol |
| 12:24.15 | roh | lukhas me too.. but *ssssh* |
| 12:24.28 | lukhas | oh, and shipping 100 phones from taiwan to france costs 2500 dollars, by the way |
| 12:24.32 | lukhas | that's something |
| 12:24.52 | lukhas | afk, meeting to reopen the web shop |
| 12:25.17 | CVirus | cool |
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| 12:32.00 | zlfita | so you'll buying from france |
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| 12:32.20 | zlfita | i'll go to turkey on 4th and i hope i can get one befire that |
| 12:41.17 | Ainulindale | I'll perhaps go to the boulevard de sébastopol this afternoon if I manage to get on lukhas' nerves enough :-p |
| 12:41.27 | Ainulindale | (In order to have a freerunner :-p) |
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| 12:56.45 | johnl | issue tracker is down. can't file a bug about it because issue tracker is down: http://trac.freesmartphone.org:8000/ |
| 12:59.30 | KaZeR | lukhas, stock? for france? |
| 12:59.37 | mickey|lunch | try again |
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| 12:59.46 | lukhas | KaZeR: hm ? |
| 13:01.22 | KaZeR | lukhas, you have freeunners in sotkc i've read? |
| 13:01.26 | KaZeR | damn it i can't type |
| 13:01.43 | lukhas | we have not yet recieved them from openmoko |
| 13:01.59 | lukhas | but we have sold almost all of them before even getting them |
| 13:02.17 | KaZeR | ah ok. how much left from incoming bundle? |
| 13:02.34 | lukhas | not enough to sell them :) |
| 13:02.54 | KaZeR | not enough to sell? isn't that you job to sell them? :) |
| 13:02.56 | KaZeR | 320e i've read? how much is shipping for france? any accessories like housing case? |
| 13:02.57 | lukhas | we plan to reopen the store, and mention that these phones are from the second batch, expected around mid-july |
| 13:03.15 | lukhas | waint until I reopen the store, you'll get your answers |
| 13:03.36 | Ainulindale | shakes |
| 13:03.47 | lukhas | :) |
| 13:03.49 | Ainulindale | I'm bored, I want my toy ! :-p |
| 13:03.56 | KaZeR | Ainulindale, +1 |
| 13:03.59 | *** join/#openmoko OJW (n=OJW@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 13:04.07 | KaZeR | lukhas, do you sell housing case? |
| 13:04.14 | lukhas | you mean the pouch ? |
| 13:04.23 | KaZeR | cause currently i was thinking of buying at bearstech |
| 13:04.31 | lukhas | it's included in the shipping, so it's included in your order |
| 13:04.50 | *** join/#openmoko mazzen (n=mortel@vpn-ce242008.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de) |
| 13:04.59 | Ainulindale | lukhas: By the way, did you get one yourself ? |
| 13:05.11 | lukhas | yes of course, all our employees will have one |
| 13:05.24 | lukhas | that's why I closed the shop before selling *all* the units |
| 13:05.28 | Ainulindale | "Will" then, not "have" :-) |
| 13:05.37 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=ahacic@84-255-246-158.static.t-2.net) |
| 13:05.45 | lukhas | yeah, we haven't recieved them, yet, as I said |
| 13:05.48 | Ainulindale | Yep yep |
| 13:05.57 | KaZeR | lukhas, i'm talking of this: http://www.pulster.de/engl/index.html?d__ompouch__OpenMoko_Freerunner_Pouch786.htm |
| 13:06.04 | KaZeR | it's included in the default pacakge? |
| 13:06.08 | Ainulindale | I thought that as a reseller you would have received some prerelease |
| 13:06.29 | lukhas | KaZeR: yes, that's included in the bulk orders |
| 13:06.47 | KaZeR | ahbritto, nice |
| 13:06.53 | KaZeR | damn. |
| 13:06.56 | KaZeR | ahbritto, nice |
| 13:06.59 | KaZeR | no tab here |
| 13:06.59 | KaZeR | uh |
| 13:07.05 | KaZeR | ahbritto, nice |
| 13:07.12 | KaZeR | weird. |
| 13:07.14 | Ainulindale | Get a real client :-p |
| 13:07.14 | lukhas | poor ahbritto |
| 13:07.22 | KaZeR | hehe, my apologies :) |
| 13:07.44 | Ainulindale | You have a real distro, I give you that. Time to move to a good IRC client. |
| 13:07.47 | lukhas | anyway, afk, building the new shop |
| 13:08.05 | KaZeR | Ainulindale, ;) |
| 13:09.15 | mjr | the price for my soul is in the mail |
| 13:09.31 | mjr | (a 3g usb stick for 2 years of contract) |
| 13:09.52 | mjr | will keep me happy on laptops with the neo being limited to gsm |
| 13:10.11 | Ainulindale | :-) |
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| 13:38.49 | *** join/#openmoko McKael (n=mikael@lilotux.net) |
| 13:40.04 | McKael | hi there |
| 13:40.26 | McKael | I'm trying to run openMoko in Qemu, using MokoMakefile |
| 13:40.48 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik1 (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 13:40.57 | McKael | It starts correctly but then I cannot interact with the UI |
| 13:41.43 | d3vice | i also built a qemu image has show in openmoko's wiki, booted and got no ui response |
| 13:41.51 | McKael | (actually, the icons blink when I click on them) |
| 13:41.58 | d3vice | this was yesterday, 2 weeks ago worked fine |
| 13:42.14 | McKael | aha |
| 13:42.49 | Dave | Hey Johnl :) |
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| 13:44.10 | d3vice | interesting stuff, although i'm building a qemu image, it still shows bablocks when flashing |
| 13:44.42 | Dave | yep |
| 13:44.44 | Dave | it does that |
| 13:44.53 | Dave | Among other weirdness :) |
| 13:44.57 | d3vice | eh :) |
| 13:46.19 | Dave | bah |
| 13:46.33 | d3vice | motorcycle boots, nice touch |
| 13:46.38 | *** join/#openmoko johnl (n=johnl@212.183.134.130) |
| 13:47.18 | Dave | hah! |
| 13:47.28 | Dave | hoi, johnl :] |
| 13:48.51 | johnl | morning dave |
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| 13:55.55 | Dave | moet gaan.. |
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| 14:11.47 | Ainulindale | lukhas: sorry for the load :-p |
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| 14:12.25 | *** join/#openmoko slchen (n=slchen@61-64-101-232-adsl-tpe.dynamic.so-net.net.tw) |
| 14:12.32 | lukhas | np |
| 14:12.40 | lukhas | still working on the shop |
| 14:12.44 | Ainulindale | lukhas: I meant I just was refreshing too often :-) |
| 14:12.46 | lukhas | second batch of orders confirmed |
| 14:12.54 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 14:12.58 | lukhas | you'll get a ping when the shop is up |
| 14:13.07 | Pyrasi | the openmoko shop? |
| 14:13.15 | lukhas | nah, the bearstech shop |
| 14:13.15 | Pyrasi | or a distributor shop? |
| 14:13.18 | Pyrasi | oh |
| 14:13.21 | lukhas | french reseller |
| 14:13.26 | lukhas | effectively selling for all EU |
| 14:13.27 | Pyrasi | man...goin and gettin my hopes up |
| 14:13.35 | lukhas | we even got a sale for Cyprus! |
| 14:16.31 | Ainulindale | By the way, the resources about Freerunner/OpenMoko are badly organized, it's mostly impossible to find something :-/ |
| 14:16.36 | cga | me? yes |
| 14:17.18 | cga | ohps sorry.. just trying the remote control |
| 14:19.14 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja (n=zefanja@drsd-4db35311.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 14:19.32 | mjr | networkmanager in ubuntu hoary switches away from a perfectly good wlan connection in preference to a neo appearing on the usb bus, without being configured or me having a dhcp server there... |
| 14:19.44 | mjr | which kinda sucks for it |
| 14:19.52 | mjr | well, of it, for me |
| 14:19.57 | Tig| | mjr: aye it is annoying that :( |
| 14:20.21 | Tig| | I just click back on the wifi and it is usually back without dropping anything |
| 14:24.19 | *** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 14:25.16 | johnl | mjr: if you configure usb0 in your interfaces file, network manager ignores it from then on |
| 14:25.33 | johnl | and if you set it as auto, it is brought up when you plug in the your openmoko too |
| 14:25.56 | johnl | configure it to bring up some masquerading rules at the same time with a post-up script and you're laughing |
| 14:26.12 | johnl | unfortunately it does not appear to go down when you disconnect |
| 14:26.15 | mjr | okay |
| 14:26.22 | johnl | so then doesn't come up properly when you plug back in :( |
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| 14:28.50 | PBeck | ahoi |
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| 15:03.09 | AVee | Since the first freerunners are out there, anybody here managed to test a 8GB of even a 16GB microSD card? |
| 15:03.22 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:03.27 | mjr | I don't think 16 GB ones are on the market |
| 15:03.32 | AVee | Looks like it... |
| 15:03.36 | *** join/#openmoko fenfir (n=fenfir@206.255.217.100) |
| 15:03.43 | mjr | 'course, you could draw out wires to a standard form factor sd ;P |
| 15:04.04 | *** join/#openmoko t0h (n=tommi@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-fe0cdf00-1.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:04.15 | Tig| | hmm I think I have found a very odd bug |
| 15:04.23 | AVee | Yeah, like we used to do with old phone cards... |
| 15:04.43 | Tig| | in the SMS application you can't actually type the number 0 :) |
| 15:05.04 | AVee | Oops :) |
| 15:05.14 | mjr | at some point Sandisk appears to have promised 16 GB ones by June, but we know how schedules go (*cough cough*): http://www.blackberrycool.com/2008/01/09/006336/ |
| 15:05.21 | AVee | mjr: http://www.komplett.nl/k/ki.aspx?sku=348186&cks=ASS&assoc=65B3D214-BAE6-410C-9075-06518B1B62A5 |
| 15:05.25 | Tig| | you can however drag a 0 out of the number :) |
| 15:05.31 | AVee | Looks like it can be ordered, |
| 15:05.45 | mjr | AVee, isn't _micro_ |
| 15:06.01 | SpeedEvil | 8G has been tested |
| 15:06.16 | kdubois | tested, sucessful? :) |
| 15:06.16 | mjr | SpeedEvil, on the FR too? Good, though I wasn't really worried. |
| 15:06.22 | *** join/#openmoko christooss1 (n=ahacic@84-255-246-158.static.t-2.net) |
| 15:06.23 | SpeedEvil | You could in principle use up to 32G full-sized with an adaptor. |
| 15:07.12 | mjr | scratch room for the card on the back casing... |
| 15:07.21 | AVee | Ow, well, 8GB it will be than. |
| 15:08.08 | mjr | Yeah, 8 is fine. Wouldn't settle for less, but it's good. Well, I would settle if they weren't supported, but luckily they are ;) |
| 15:08.29 | mjr | at least the upgrade path is open |
| 15:08.29 | SpeedEvil | You can always mount over NFS. |
| 15:09.04 | AVee | Well, to point of the big card was to store music and map-data for unconnected times. |
| 15:09.09 | mjr | and, to be fair, I think if you stick in an 8 GB card in a FreeRunner, it isn't the first thing to be likely to be obsolete ;P |
| 15:09.32 | mjr | yeah, those are major space huggers |
| 15:09.36 | mjr | some web cache data too |
| 15:10.09 | AVee | True, but 8GB will do. |
| 15:10.46 | cga | while on the topic: 8GB is microSD? |
| 15:10.46 | AVee | And i can always carry more on different cards or memory sticks. It's just a bit less convenient. |
| 15:11.00 | johnl | Tig|, lol |
| 15:11.12 | SpeedEvil | cga: yes |
| 15:11.28 | cga | ok thanks, going to buy one then |
| 15:11.29 | balrog-kun | or you can mount over NFS from another Neo in the unconnected times :p |
| 15:11.41 | AVee | That be cool :D |
| 15:12.03 | SpeedEvil | AVee: you can probably use any 1.8" USB hard drive directly too. |
| 15:12.07 | TAsn | what about mp3 playback? |
| 15:12.13 | TAsn | and video playback? |
| 15:12.16 | balrog-kun | especially one that's not yours and when the owner doesn't know about it :) |
| 15:12.47 | TAsn | do they exist yet? |
| 15:12.55 | johnl | balrog-kun, surely the Openmoko DRM subsystem will prevent something like that... |
| 15:13.03 | AVee | SpeedEvil: Probably, but normal USB sticks will do op to 32GB anyway. That should do the job :) |
| 15:13.09 | SpeedEvil | AVee: yeah. |
| 15:13.10 | balrog-kun | johnl: oh.. right.. the DRM ;) |
| 15:13.25 | TAsn | btw, every linux app will run out of the box? (or at least most?) |
| 15:13.40 | SpeedEvil | It's not quite that simple. |
| 15:13.55 | AVee | Most linux apps run on the box. Not out of it on the phone. |
| 15:13.58 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: for example, while it's true it's got a 480*640 screen, it has other limits. |
| 15:14.12 | cga | SpeedEvil, microSDHC is ok? |
| 15:14.15 | TAsn | SpeedEvil, 200*200 apps will work? |
| 15:14.16 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: touchscreen only, so many mouse apps are clunky. |
| 15:14.16 | TAsn | :) |
| 15:14.25 | balrog-kun | most linux apps written before '94 should run seamlessly ;) |
| 15:14.31 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: or impossible to use, as you can't see the cursor. |
| 15:14.48 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: or in most, the UI elements are too small to use with fingers. |
| 15:14.48 | Ainulindale | (Besides you shouldn't really need something other than bash, perl, and emacs) |
| 15:15.00 | TAsn | Ainulindale, true :) |
| 15:15.10 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:15.20 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:15.20 | Ainulindale | Pyrasi: You're drunk, I forgive you |
| 15:15.24 | TAsn | Pyrasi, correct. ;) |
| 15:15.30 | *** join/#openmoko wurp2 (n=wurp@65.111.180.216) |
| 15:15.31 | TAsn | Ainulindale, i must agree with Pyrasi there. |
| 15:15.39 | Ainulindale | T-t-t :-p |
| 15:15.44 | cga | notepad all the way!! XD |
| 15:16.05 | rwhitby | ed ftw |
| 15:16.12 | TAsn | btw is it usable as it is? (making calls and sms) |
| 15:16.13 | Ainulindale | Seriously, emacs is better. Besides on the freerunner you could call with emacs, typing M^C^A^L^L and your number |
| 15:16.19 | Ainulindale | Only problem |
| 15:16.24 | Ainulindale | You'll need forty two fingers |
| 15:16.31 | TAsn | :) |
| 15:16.33 | rwhitby | M-x dial |
| 15:16.52 | Ainulindale | Coffee break, be back in a troll. |
| 15:17.06 | cga | can anyone tell me if microSDHC is ok for the freerunner please? |
| 15:17.07 | AVee | Don't care about either vi or emacs, ed is just fine. But I do need irssi :) |
| 15:17.14 | wurp2 | cga: yes |
| 15:17.19 | cga | thanks wurp2 |
| 15:17.23 | wurp2 | yw :-) |
| 15:17.26 | cga | =) |
| 15:17.38 | rwhitby | BTW, emacs does run nicely on the GTA01 :-) |
| 15:17.41 | cga | AVee, weechat all the way XD |
| 15:17.42 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:17.55 | wurp2 | TAsn: You're asking if the Freerunner will make calls & sms out of the box? |
| 15:18.07 | cga | nah... that's a phone thing :P |
| 15:18.20 | russellb | phone calls are overrated |
| 15:18.24 | rwhitby | only if the box is not made of metal |
| 15:18.32 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x_ (n=alvar@80-218-171-130.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:18.53 | TAsn | wurp2,not will, does... (current state) |
| 15:19.19 | wurp2 | TAsn: That's what I meant. Per johnl & Tig|, who got theirs yesterday, yes. |
| 15:19.31 | rwhitby | my FR won't even turn on :-( |
| 15:19.32 | TAsn | cool. |
| 15:19.41 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 15:19.42 | TAsn | is it qtopia based yet? |
| 15:19.46 | wurp2 | rwhitby: Send it to me and I'll see what I can do with it |
| 15:19.57 | TAsn | or is it still the openmoko? (being shipped) |
| 15:20.01 | wurp2 | TAsn: OM |
| 15:20.01 | Tig| | TAsn: no, the shipping image is GTL based |
| 15:20.04 | mjr | TAsn, isn't going to be qtopia-"based" |
| 15:20.16 | Tig| | GTK even |
| 15:20.47 | rwhitby | wurp2: it's suffering from the same stuck PMIC problem as Steve is discussing on the kernel list |
| 15:20.52 | TAsn | what about the asu? never will be shipped with that? (i know i can install by my own) |
| 15:21.02 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=fz@ppp-88-217-68-209.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 15:21.03 | wurp2 | It looks to me like the fso is passing the ASU with regard to stable calls |
| 15:21.08 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:21.30 | mjr | TAsn, "never" would be a silly thing to say. ASU does utilize qtopia but is not really qtopia-based. The phone functions in the ASU are, however. |
| 15:21.31 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:21.44 | *** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl) |
| 15:21.45 | wurp2 | Pyrasi: it sounds like it |
| 15:21.59 | wurp2 | Or, to put it another way, God, I hope so. |
| 15:22.08 | *** join/#openmoko john__ (n=john@dsl-41-244.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 15:22.13 | mjr | aand yeah, then there's the FSO thing. It's all quite a mess, really. Luckily I don't mind messes, but I do hope something comes out of it :] |
| 15:22.14 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:22.15 | *** join/#openmoko nomeata (i=nobody@nomeata.de) |
| 15:22.20 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178235146.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:22.23 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@218-166-210-32.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 15:22.26 | *** part/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@218-166-210-32.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 15:22.45 | mjr | (Didn't mean to say the FSO is a mess, merely that the whole bundle of different things in general is a mess) |
| 15:23.21 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:24.18 | *** join/#openmoko mazzen (n=mortel@vpn-ce242003.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de) |
| 15:24.25 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:25.43 | zedstar_ | the toolkit confusion is just bad timing with the launch of the freerunner IMO |
| 15:25.53 | mjr | it's a part of the mess, but it's one of the internally less messy parts, to be sure :) |
| 15:26.32 | wurp2 | zedstar_: But it seems like intentional bad timing - someone thought they would just slam in the ASU stuff and get it all done in time for FR release |
| 15:26.33 | mjr | I haven't looked at it in any great detail, but as far as I have, I hope it's the prevailing technology in the end here |
| 15:27.07 | *** join/#openmoko kuzgun (n=deniz@unaffiliated/kuzgun) |
| 15:28.38 | zedstar_ | interesting post now on ML from tangoGPS developer regarding gtk |
| 15:29.01 | johnl | is installing tango on a gta02 |
| 15:29.29 | johnl | anyone know of a gui to configure wireless on these? the applet appears to do nothing in the current snapshots |
| 15:31.05 | *** join/#openmoko |alexxy| (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171) |
| 15:33.02 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:33.14 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:34.46 | *** join/#openmoko Varox-DT (n=Varox@p4FD45C23.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:34.54 | zedstar_ | i bet that thread is gonna linger for a while |
| 15:35.31 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:35.54 | wurp2 | Does anyone have a link to a good fso snapshot? |
| 15:36.00 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:36.21 | Ainulindale | lukhas: Time looks like forever :-p |
| 15:36.30 | lukhas | it does indeed |
| 15:36.46 | lukhas | almost there |
| 15:36.59 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:37.08 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:37.32 | *** join/#openmoko textshell (n=kvirc@dslb-084-063-055-240.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:39.14 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@41.196.47.88) |
| 15:40.16 | wurp2 | Pyrasi: Yeah, I guess I'll try that, but I'd heard that a more recent release supported stable suspend/resume on call |
| 15:40.48 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x__ (n=alvar@80-218-171-130.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:42.19 | textshell | wurp2: where did you hear that? |
| 15:42.39 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:43.53 | wurp2 | textshell: Here, a couple of days ago |
| 15:44.20 | wurp2 | textshell: I pulled an image that someone in that conversation put up a link to, but it doesn't even work consistently for calls for me |
| 15:44.35 | textshell | wurp2: thx, i guess i need to search the logs then. Because i'm thinking about trying FR as my first phone... |
| 15:44.37 | wurp2 | But I'm not sure it was from one of the people making the claim |
| 15:45.16 | textshell | do you remember who said it (would speed up grepping the logs) |
| 15:45.17 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=ahacic@lk.84.20.227.185.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net) |
| 15:46.03 | wurp2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:46.09 | textshell | wurp2: np |
| 15:46.39 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: may you have been thinking of mwester? |
| 15:47.03 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: I don't think so |
| 15:47.18 | *** join/#openmoko alexxy (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171) |
| 15:47.19 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: I knew mwester has a kernel that is supposed to work for suspend/resume on the GTK release |
| 15:47.41 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: I'm almost certain this was a different kernel |
| 15:48.50 | wurp2 | It was `pwgen` |
| 15:49.01 | wurp2 | (the backticks are part of his username) |
| 15:49.13 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e44b173.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 15:49.33 | wurp2 | From irc history: Jun 24 15:56:24 <`pwgen`> mickeyl: fso image still working !! still receving calls ( moved some kilometers, many resume cycles with wakeup testcalls within the last 24h ) |
| 15:49.59 | wurp2 | This is handy: wget -O - http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/openmoko.$DATE.txt 2> /dev/null | grep $REGEX |
| 15:50.01 | *** join/#openmoko petrus_der_6 (n=peterstu@p5B20B40A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:50.02 | wurp2 | :-) |
| 15:50.22 | *** join/#openmoko christooss2 (n=ahacic@84-255-246-158.static.t-2.net) |
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| 16:05.10 | *** join/#openmoko Baget (n=Baget@mx.baget.org) |
| 16:05.29 | Baget | Hello |
| 16:06.00 | Baget | I'm tring to run linux on my HTC magician , but I'm getting all time white screen after the Bootload, can some one help me with that? |
| 16:07.04 | balrog-kun | you don't use Xglamo, right? |
| 16:07.18 | Baget | no |
| 16:07.47 | Baget | I tried OpenMoko images that i found on a site |
| 16:07.56 | Baget | I run the linload.exe |
| 16:08.25 | Baget | I'm seeing the Boot Loader, but when it try to run the kernel i'm getting White Screen |
| 16:08.31 | pH5 | Baget: is it a VPA by chance? |
| 16:08.41 | balrog-kun | oh, before the kernel |
| 16:08.57 | Baget | pH5: VPA? |
| 16:09.04 | balrog-kun | what kernel is that? |
| 16:09.24 | Baget | this one |
| 16:09.25 | Baget | http://www.linuxtogo.org/~htcpxa/htcmagician/images/OpenMoko/ |
| 16:09.28 | pH5 | Baget: there are a few magician models that have a different LCD than the rest |
| 16:09.36 | Baget | 2.6.21-hh17 |
| 16:09.40 | pH5 | and support for that is probably not yet in any precompiled kernel image |
| 16:09.55 | Baget | pH5: it is O2 XDA Mini II |
| 16:09.57 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178036045.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:10.43 | Baget | Sorry guys, BRB |
| 16:12.59 | *** join/#openmoko josch (n=josch@host140.natpool.mwn.de) |
| 16:13.49 | *** join/#openmoko ayeuu (n=ayeuu@tss37-1-82-228-161-185.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 16:14.21 | *** join/#openmoko ohin (n=opera@zli1-v-1-166.static.adsl.vol.cz) |
| 16:15.02 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178046068.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:15.46 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@static-pro-212-101-27-121.adsl.solnet.ch) |
| 16:15.49 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@213-132-206-101.adsl.nlhosting.nl) |
| 16:16.41 | pH5 | Baget: hm, o2 xda mini should have the standard toppoly display and thus be supported. you could try another kernel or dump the LCD controller registers with haret to be sure, but that is a topic for #htc-linux rather than here. |
| 16:17.16 | *** join/#openmoko ||Leto|| (n=tomboy64@e178049232.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:17.35 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@pD95FF8C2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:17.43 | textshell | wurp2: thanks a lot. |
| 16:17.55 | *** join/#openmoko imcsk8 (n=ichavero@148.229.1.11) |
| 16:18.06 | wurp2 | textshell: You're welcome |
| 16:19.17 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 16:20.13 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkman (n=Zorkman@dD5769386.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:20.27 | Zorkman | hi, can i ask a question? |
| 16:20.32 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@59.92.50.90) |
| 16:20.40 | Zorkman | I'm emulating the the freerunner |
| 16:20.55 | Zorkman | but when I use make qemu I alsways download and use a qtopia image |
| 16:21.02 | Zorkman | how can I test the fso / ASU ? |
| 16:22.16 | lukhas | phew, shop reopened \o/ |
| 16:22.23 | lukhas | </spam> bearstech.com/shop </spam> |
| 16:22.39 | lukhas | now featuring more items and more buttons for EU :) |
| 16:22.51 | Zorkman | lukhas do you by any chance know a sollution for my problem? |
| 16:22.53 | lukhas | and afk, going for a walk |
| 16:23.18 | lukhas | Zorkman: nope, it's been a long time since I last tried qemu |
| 16:23.26 | Zorkman | ok, thanks anyway! |
| 16:23.30 | lukhas | good luck :) |
| 16:23.41 | Zorkman | thx |
| 16:24.03 | wurp2 | Zorkman: Isn't there a flash.sh in the qemu tree? |
| 16:24.14 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 16:24.37 | wurp2 | I think you can use it to flash onto your qemu image, in which case you would use the regular instructions (on the wiki) to dl an ASU or fso image |
| 16:27.09 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F373.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:27.13 | Baget | thanks |
| 16:27.15 | Zorkman | I'm very new to this all, |
| 16:27.18 | *** part/#openmoko Baget (n=Baget@mx.baget.org) |
| 16:27.28 | Zorkman | i'll search for a flash.sh |
| 16:27.52 | Zorkman | found it |
| 16:28.33 | Zorkman | but now I'm stuck again, I don't know what to do... |
| 16:30.01 | wurp2 | Zorkman: Search on wiki.openmoko.org for 'flash' |
| 16:30.14 | Zorkman | ok |
| 16:30.14 | wurp2 | Or google search with site:, because the wiki's search sucks |
| 16:30.37 | wurp2 | I can't help much with qemu; I never use it |
| 16:32.11 | Zorkman | thank anyway |
| 16:36.04 | Sup3rkiddo | hmm...will there be OM swag |
| 16:36.06 | *** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.147.195) |
| 16:36.06 | Sup3rkiddo | like tees |
| 16:36.36 | *** join/#openmoko Blastur (i=Blastur@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 16:37.00 | goodwill|yawn | personally I think the OM logo looks a bit like pacman on drugs |
| 16:37.23 | mjr | like pacman who's on drugs or pacman when you're on drugs? |
| 16:37.46 | Sup3rkiddo | it looks like one of those men inside a ball |
| 16:38.10 | goodwill|yawn | mjr: maybe |
| 16:38.14 | goodwill|yawn | mjr: ;) |
| 16:38.34 | mjr | no well ten beers |
| 16:39.05 | goodwill|yawn | mjr: all I know no line of dots is safe around it |
| 16:39.40 | mjr | all I know is no line of pills is safe around me |
| 16:40.26 | balrog-kun | Sup3rkiddo: you t-shirt junkie |
| 16:41.44 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=broedje@92.117.32.120) |
| 16:42.13 | Sup3rkiddo | balrog-kun, i would say that, i do wear tees a lot ;)...no one would want to see my six pack |
| 16:42.36 | Ainulindale | Aaaaaaaaaargh, can't wait for next week |
| 16:42.41 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@net70-253.metalit.net) |
| 16:43.25 | mjr | Ainulindale, look into cryonics |
| 16:43.25 | Sup3rkiddo | grins with his SoC device in hand |
| 16:43.25 | mjr | though the thawing process is a bit iffy |
| 16:43.25 | mjr | pats his poor ol' 1973 |
| 16:43.54 | *** join/#openmoko johnl (n=johnl@cpc1-leds8-0-0-cust743.leed.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:44.53 | Sup3rkiddo | mjr, you get a discount..dont you? |
| 16:44.59 | Ainulindale | mjr: sic' :-) |
| 16:45.21 | Ainulindale | mjr: Can't wait to get involved in anything around this device in fact |
| 16:47.08 | kdubois | so in the US, the only way to get the phone is with the direct store then? |
| 16:47.28 | SpeedEvil | Or import a EU one. |
| 16:47.34 | SpeedEvil | (which won't work on 850) |
| 16:47.36 | wurp2 | kdubois: Well, you could pay $500+ and wait for one to get shipped from EU |
| 16:47.42 | *** join/#openmoko d3vice (n=pedro@a213-22-207-230.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
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| 16:48.05 | SpeedEvil | I'll hand deliver one to you anywhere US for only $5000 :) |
| 16:48.27 | kdubois | hmm, generous, but i think ill wait for the store to come up |
| 16:48.27 | *** join/#openmoko doc|work (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007) |
| 16:48.43 | *** join/#openmoko milos__ (n=milos@92.36.146.201) |
| 16:48.47 | kdubois | what i was more asking was, that is the place to order them in the US, right? :D |
| 16:49.29 | balrog-kun | Sup3rkiddo: i want an OM executive shirt and tie |
| 16:49.33 | balrog-kun | :p |
| 16:49.53 | Sup3rkiddo | that'd be cool as well :D |
| 16:50.16 | balrog-kun | (i don't really wear those...) |
| 16:50.25 | *** join/#openmoko mazzen (n=mortel@vpn-ce242010.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de) |
| 16:50.33 | Sup3rkiddo | tees are yay |
| 16:50.39 | balrog-kun | *nod* |
| 16:50.53 | Ainulindale | Oh, just saw the wishlist |
| 16:50.54 | doc|work | t-shirts? |
| 16:51.03 | *** join/#openmoko yakischloba (n=jake@c-24-22-170-61.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 16:51.05 | cga | t-shirts?? where? |
| 16:51.06 | Ainulindale | Wonder why "Menstruation period timer" didn't get in the SoC program |
| 16:51.13 | Sup3rkiddo | what?! |
| 16:51.18 | Sup3rkiddo | rofl |
| 16:51.42 | wurp2 | btw, chk ur pad |
| 16:51.43 | Qwell | at 28d echo "ugh..." |
| 16:51.43 | Tig| | IT JUST DIDN'T OK! |
| 16:51.44 | Tig| | :P |
| 16:52.10 | Ainulindale | Whose idea is it ? :-p |
| 16:52.33 | Sup3rkiddo | link |
| 16:52.34 | balrog-kun | Neo might get classified as medical equipment then, and need a special permit |
| 16:52.35 | Sup3rkiddo | ? |
| 16:52.44 | Sup3rkiddo | hehe |
| 16:52.46 | balrog-kun | otherwise people mihgt sue you if it has a bug |
| 16:53.21 | Sonicadvance1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:53.23 | Sonicadvance1 | sued |
| 16:53.29 | Sup3rkiddo | anything that vibrates is potentially a......(ooops...i fear the ops) |
| 16:53.46 | Ainulindale | Sup3rkiddo: Get a life wanker ! :-) |
| 16:54.10 | Sup3rkiddo | ^^ |
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| 17:01.29 | wurp2 | Is there a room for fso? |
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| 17:07.06 | Ainulindale | Is there any resource to know what is the availability of SIP on the freerunner ? |
| 17:07.14 | Ainulindale | (besides google site: research ? :->) |
| 17:07.39 | donomo | wow traffic has picked up in this channel |
| 17:07.45 | donomo | i guess a slashdot story will do that |
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| 17:10.22 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: http://code.google.com/soc/2008/openmoko/appinfo.html?csaid=F194F69181816D98 |
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| 17:11.36 | Ainulindale | I think #openmoko is the first channel I know where people actually answer question in less than two weeks |
| 17:11.40 | Ainulindale | +s |
| 17:12.02 | doc|work | man, you hang out in all the wrong channels :) |
| 17:12.08 | Ainulindale | Totally. |
| 17:12.19 | Ainulindale | Oh my bad, there's #ampache also |
| 17:12.57 | Ainulindale | wurp2: no more detail ? |
| 17:12.58 | zedstar_ | u shud try the iphone dev channels....ive attempted a few times to ask questions without much luck |
| 17:13.25 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: google ;-) |
| 17:13.36 | Ainulindale | wurp2: naaaaaa :p |
| 17:14.35 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: If you follow the mailing lists, or search the archives, you'll see reports from the GSoC dev |
| 17:15.14 | Ainulindale | I was looking through the archives right now, in fact |
| 17:15.29 | Ainulindale | And I should subscribe to the MLs I guess |
| 17:15.57 | CIA-26 | openmoko: 03zecke * ra8e364afd2ce 10/src/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [clock] Do not force an immediate repaint |
| 17:15.57 | CIA-26 | openmoko: 03zecke * r80d3f3fb4bdd 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [x11] We can use ConfigPending, remove the other option, paint less |
| 17:15.58 | CIA-26 | openmoko: 03zecke * re6d9bcf2da1e 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/gui/kernel/qapplication_x11.cpp: [x11] We have postponed the Resize and Move from show_helper... do them now |
| 17:16.00 | CIA-26 | openmoko: 03zecke * r52a0632d5aec 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/gui/kernel/qwidget_x11.cpp: [x11] Change from isVisible to check if the window is mapped. |
| 17:20.12 | *** join/#openmoko kdubois (n=kdubois@fw.arb.zattoo.com) |
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| 17:21.34 | Ainulindale | wurp2: the work on gestures looks promising |
| 17:22.32 | OJW | how much should an OM cost in the UK? |
| 17:25.05 | wurp2 | Ainulindale: I've been impressed with all of the GSoC reports |
| 17:25.24 | wurp2 | OJW: I think I heard 270 GBP |
| 17:26.29 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@70-7-43-2.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 17:27.02 | cga | OJW, from the uk reseller it's 272£ which is quite unfair |
| 17:27.06 | Tig| | OJW : truebox are selling them for £272 but I think they are on order atm |
| 17:27.23 | Tig| | cga: why unfair? |
| 17:27.54 | cga | meh... it's more than alot if you consider that you get it from pulster at 299⬠|
| 17:28.12 | cga | but i don't know, might be the uk vat |
| 17:29.02 | Tig| | possibly but it includes all vat and taxes etc and p&p and also the fact that if you are in the UK then you get a UK phone number to call and deal with |
| 17:29.45 | Tig| | disclaimer: I bought mine from truebox and it arrived yesterday :) |
| 17:29.58 | OJW | £272 is £224 + tax |
| 17:30.13 | Tig| | + delivery :) |
| 17:30.32 | OJW | are they going taiwan -> USA -> UK, or more direct? |
| 17:30.43 | OJW | well postage is like £2... |
| 17:30.48 | Tig| | I presume TW direct to UK |
| 17:30.59 | Tig| | ojw : it was next day ups |
| 17:31.07 | cga | Tig|, what did you get for 272£? only the FR pack ? plus pouch and earplugs? |
| 17:31.55 | Tig| | the FR pack, I was supposed to get the pouch and earphones but they were not in the pack from Openmoko, truebox said they will send them on if they show up |
| 17:32.38 | cga | well that's not bad though. i had to buy pouch and earplugs aside |
| 17:32.56 | Tig| | not sure if you ordered now if you will get the pouch and phones, you could e-mail them and ask, their stance on the batch I was part of was along the lines of: we will ship what ever openmoko send us :) |
| 17:33.16 | cga | eh |
| 17:33.32 | Tig| | when they arrived without the pouch and phones they did e-mail to explain what was going on and and gave me the offer to cancel |
| 17:33.48 | cga | that's cool |
| 17:34.45 | Tig| | yep, they were very open about what was going on and the status of the orders and what I was getting and when the kit landed confirmed a few questions on what image they were running etc, can't fault them :) |
| 17:35.28 | cga | very serious business indeed |
| 17:35.35 | cga | kudos |
| 17:35.47 | Tig| | it would be nice to get the pouch and headphones but it was not a dealbreaker for me and they might still turn up, truebox were expecting them :( |
| 17:36.14 | doc|work | by headphones do you mean headset? |
| 17:36.29 | cga | doc|home, earplugs |
| 17:37.03 | Tig| | sorry i mean earphones/earplugs things that go in your ears :) |
| 17:37.06 | doc|work | Tig|: did you get a headset? |
| 17:37.34 | Tig| | see ^^ up there :) not *yet* but possibly :) |
| 17:37.46 | doc|work | are they the same thing for you? :) |
| 17:38.00 | doc|work | the headsets are supposed to be a bit crap anyway |
| 17:38.02 | *** part/#openmoko xMDKx (n=mdkcore@nat/mandriva/x-5817293bc5fad50c) |
| 17:38.29 | Tig| | yep I was part of that order :) |
| 17:40.38 | wurp2 | The headsets look the same as the ones for the gta01, which are marginally OK |
| 17:40.49 | wurp2 | Certainly not great |
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| 17:52.01 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:01.19 | OJW | interesting... truebox's terms and conditions include a license agreement for any software supplied via their web shop, which isn't necessarily compatible with the free software licenses used in openmoko... |
| 18:03.20 | textshell | OJW: i guess (IANAL) that you get the license for OpenMoko software directly from the right owners not from the shop... So it shouldn't be a big problem for endusers... |
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| 18:41.58 | Qwell | TimRiker: ~fist is extremely disturbing. Just fyi :p |
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| 18:48.08 | telmich | hello |
| 18:54.37 | kristian-m | hi telmich |
| 18:59.23 | *** join/#openmoko anishmangal2002 (n=anish@59.178.56.170) |
| 19:02.25 | *** join/#openmoko _moep_ (n=irc@2001:638:904:ffc2:21b:21ff:fe0e:505c) |
| 19:03.16 | telmich | hou kristian-m |
| 19:06.32 | lukhas | yau |
| 19:06.37 | lukhas | hmph, wrong chan |
| 19:13.56 | LottoKim | Why does not freerunner support edge/umts? |
| 19:14.39 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=fz@ppp-88-217-68-209.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 19:15.59 | lukhas | omg, 50 mails in my inbox asking stuff about Openmoko |
| 19:16.02 | lukhas | cries |
| 19:16.06 | textshell | LottoKim: it seems that acceptable umts modules are hard to find and to expensive for openmoko (initial cost) |
| 19:16.45 | LottoKim | I see, Thanks! |
| 19:17.56 | abraxa_ | LottoKim: It's also an openness issue and a power issue |
| 19:18.13 | kristian-m | actually there are/where no 3G chips available with open documentation. (afaik) |
| 19:18.33 | wurp2 | I would imagine also a time to release issue, once the gta01 was gprs only |
| 19:18.52 | *** join/#openmoko pwerken (n=pwerken@83.119.198.36) |
| 19:18.54 | lukhas | kristian-m: + horrible 3G fees |
| 19:19.49 | kristian-m | wurp2 hard to tell, i would think the interface and AT cmd set would not be that different, don't know though. |
| 19:20.53 | wurp2 | kristian-m: Yeah, I dunno either, it just seemed like something to consider given the many delays for FR release anyway |
| 19:21.17 | wurp2 | I have no idea how umts or edge are accessed in terms of api |
| 19:21.32 | wurp2 | and only a vague idea re: gprs |
| 19:22.08 | kristian-m | wurp2 at least edge is a firmware thing on the modem, i suspect |
| 19:22.36 | wurp2 | kristian-m: You think firmware, w/ no hardware difference? |
| 19:22.53 | kristian-m | wurp2 on an 3g usb-modem it just has to be anabled by an AT cmd |
| 19:23.15 | lukhas | most modems offer an AT interface I think |
| 19:23.24 | kristian-m | wurp2 right, its just a protocoll extention to gsm |
| 19:23.36 | wurp2 | yeah, but if it used different hardware, the sensible thing would still be to expose it through the normal AT command set |
| 19:23.58 | kristian-m | this is why EDGE is called 2.5G sometimes |
| 19:24.05 | mjr | 2.75 actually |
| 19:24.12 | mjr | but that gets ridiculous fast |
| 19:24.27 | kristian-m | mjr I would call it a 2G thing. |
| 19:24.55 | lukhas | in France it's not called at all, I don't even think EDGE is available widely :) |
| 19:24.58 | doc|work | wants hsdpa at non-canadian silly prices |
| 19:25.11 | mjr | anyway, one would think edge/gprs differences are invisible outside an edge-supporting gsm chipset |
| 19:25.21 | doc|work | even Ireland has affordable hsdpa, wtf is with canada?! |
| 19:25.22 | kristian-m | anyway nowerdays I would just concentrate on 4G beeing IP - how it gets to my handset isn't importent for me anymore |
| 19:25.43 | lukhas | IP works well over GPRS and later |
| 19:25.44 | mjr | as is hsdpa/edge/gprs with 3g chipsets |
| 19:26.00 | lukhas | it all depends on your provider and its shitty data plans |
| 19:26.10 | kristian-m | lukhas it's usable |
| 19:26.22 | lukhas | usable is the word, yes |
| 19:26.28 | lukhas | you can IRC |
| 19:26.33 | lukhas | fetch 3 mails |
| 19:26.35 | lukhas | send one |
| 19:26.38 | lukhas | but not much :) |
| 19:27.02 | mjr | dunno about the hardware interface of 3g chipsets, but I would suspect it'd be some sort of high speed serial |
| 19:27.15 | mjr | with the same at command set... |
| 19:27.34 | SpeedEvil | mjr: alas not in the cheapest cases. |
| 19:27.36 | mjr | but maybe I'm just off |
| 19:27.48 | mjr | okay |
| 19:28.00 | SpeedEvil | mjr: it's a shared memory interface to another core on the chip, with custom firmware that runs your application/kernel |
| 19:28.30 | mjr | *nod* |
| 19:28.36 | anishmangal2002 | what is the avg. battery life of the freerunner? |
| 19:29.22 | *** join/#openmoko apol_ (n=apol@84.78.178.63) |
| 19:29.44 | SpeedEvil | anishmangal2002: ask again in a few months. |
| 19:29.50 | mjr | that's a mostly nonsensical question |
| 19:30.16 | lukhas | the battery is better than a laptop, worse than a regular notsmart-phone |
| 19:30.34 | lukhas | could be anything between those two limits :) |
| 19:31.10 | kristian-m | SpeedEvil but pm issues are all solved on hardwareside now, yes? |
| 19:31.15 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 19:31.18 | SpeedEvil | Well |
| 19:31.23 | SpeedEvil | Apparently. |
| 19:31.28 | SpeedEvil | That's not been well tested. |
| 19:31.28 | kristian-m | hmm |
| 19:31.32 | doc|work | anishmangal2002: someone said it lasts close to or just slightly less than a nokia smartphone in call time |
| 19:31.41 | wurp2 | cpufreq isn't solved... |
| 19:31.50 | doc|work | anishmangal2002: that's constant call time, other times vary based on usage |
| 19:31.52 | kristian-m | SpeedEvil so we have to expect a GTA2.5 then? |
| 19:31.56 | doc|work | wurp2: more gains to be had? |
| 19:32.00 | anishmangal2002 | ok. |
| 19:32.09 | wurp2 | doc|work: cesarb never finished it |
| 19:32.23 | wurp2 | doc|work: The usb doesn't change speeds properly, iirc |
| 19:32.23 | doc|work | wurp2: nice, means battery life should be even better when someone does |
| 19:32.33 | SpeedEvil | kristian-m: I mean - you cannot test the hardware completely adequately without software which does not exist yet. |
| 19:32.47 | wurp2 | doc|work: Well, you can always just underclock it all the time |
| 19:33.00 | wurp2 | doc|work: I run my gta01 at 200 mhz - it doesn't seem to affect anything |
| 19:33.01 | doc|work | wurp2: yeah, but means manual intervention, meh :) |
| 19:33.15 | kristian-m | SpeedEvil you could write test software, at last with 10 taiwaneese engineers at hand... :-/ |
| 19:33.20 | wurp2 | I did it once, to my boot parms, and created a new option to boot at 266 when I want to |
| 19:33.37 | doc|work | nods |
| 19:34.07 | wurp2 | doc|work: But suspend/resume are much bigger battery savers, unless you want to keep the phone running all the time to log gps coords or something |
| 19:35.11 | wurp2 | I would like to do stuff like that, in which case being able to dynamically switch CPU to 40 mhz would be a big boon |
| 19:35.24 | mjr | yes please |
| 19:35.29 | doc|work | wurp2: that's working though, right? |
| 19:35.50 | kristian-m | wurp2 yea it would rock |
| 19:36.07 | wurp2 | doc|work: Not afaik |
| 19:36.37 | wurp2 | I think it works if you install cesarb's stuff (no idea how to do that) and are OK with the usb being broken after you change cpu speed |
| 19:36.51 | doc|work | wurp2: wow, that could lead to big battery savings |
| 19:37.35 | kristian-m | maybe a different case could also fit an even bigger battery |
| 19:37.51 | mjr | Well. The usb stuff is soc-internal, yes? So one would _think_ the hardware wouldn't be broken in that respect... |
| 19:38.09 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:38.40 | wurp2 | mjr: I may be misremembering what it was that didn't survive a cpu frequency change, but I know there was one pernicious piece of hw |
| 19:38.50 | wurp2 | per cesarb, who should know ;-) |
| 19:39.26 | *** join/#openmoko rgl (n=rgl@bl8-130-163.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 19:39.29 | rgl | hi |
| 19:41.01 | mjr | mmh |
| 19:41.06 | rgl | its possible to run android in freerunner? |
| 19:41.19 | mjr | rgl, if they ever free it, one should be able to port it |
| 19:41.27 | wurp2 | I think I did misremember which hw was the problem in cpufreq - it looks as if the sd card was the issue |
| 19:41.30 | wurp2 | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/cpufreq#What.27s_already_done |
| 19:42.24 | rgl | mjr, from what I've read, they will free it after the first handset (but you probably already known that better than I hehe) |
| 19:43.46 | mjr | rgl, yes well, maybe. Anyway, the dev. binaries are incompatible with Neo's cpu, and one would think their vm's jitter would require a bit of code generation changes, but shouldn't be overbearing after that |
| 19:43.57 | mjr | a nonzero effort, though, to be sure |
| 19:45.04 | *** join/#openmoko Sargeth (i=sargeth@si.mmvi.nl) |
| 19:45.18 | rgl | from the openmoko wiki, android should required an arm5 cpu, isn't the freerunner arm9 compatible with that? |
| 19:46.27 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@211.84-49-138.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:46.30 | roh | arm5 is arm11 and arm9 is arm4 |
| 19:46.43 | roh | (to obfuscate that matter further) |
| 19:46.48 | roh | means no |
| 19:47.07 | roh | android builds are mostly binary, compiled for arm5/11 |
| 19:47.08 | wurp2 | roh: Those numbering systems are teh stupid |
| 19:47.13 | roh | indeed |
| 19:47.45 | rgl | oh! |
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| 19:50.49 | rgl | "java: yes" on http://www.mobilegazette.com/openmoko-neo-freerunner-08x06x26.htm ... is that true? |
| 19:51.36 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 19:51.57 | roh | rgl i guess that is meant: https://wiki.evolvis.org/jalimo/index.php/Main_Page |
| 19:52.08 | roh | but there is no vm in the default images |
| 19:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko LionKMP (n=lion@catv-5985b8e7.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 19:52.59 | wurp2 | roh: Are the default images good for anything right now, anyway? ;-) |
| 19:53.09 | rgl | roh, oh I see. thx :-) |
| 19:53.15 | roh | i think phoning is working in most of them (asu, fso) |
| 19:53.35 | wurp2 | roh: I didn't know it was working in ASU! |
| 19:53.36 | roh | long time since ive tried a gtk app based build, but last time it worked even there |
| 19:53.55 | roh | asu is multiple things and often gets mis-interpreted |
| 19:53.58 | wurp2 | But I thought both those images lack media player, gps, etc. |
| 19:54.04 | wurp2 | so java is the least of your worries |
| 19:54.24 | roh | asu drops the old, buggy middleware, and replaces it with the gpl qtopia-phone-middleware |
| 19:54.51 | wurp2 | I heard the recent gtk builds were good, but then after that I heard someone commenting on the lack of icons on the media player buttons, so it sounds as if it's not all working |
| 19:54.53 | rgl | does that mean, all apps must be gpl? |
| 19:55.22 | wurp2 | rgl: Only if they directly use gpl code... |
| 19:55.37 | roh | the ui moved mostly from matchbox to a efl-driven concept. the 'dialer' app for example is qtopia based. but regardless which ui-toolkit one uses, it all works together on one ui since its x11 |
| 19:55.47 | rgl | wurp2, isn't that the case with qtopia? |
| 19:56.09 | wurp2 | I would have thought QT is lgpl, if anything... |
| 19:56.16 | mjr | no, it's gpl |
| 19:56.26 | mjr | they sell proprietary developer licenses |
| 19:56.31 | roh | so its not a move from gtk to qt. but more of a gtk to a more diverse and finetuned combination of things. |
| 19:56.32 | wurp2 | And as long as your app doesn't #include gpl code, I think you're safe |
| 19:56.32 | ljp_ | t is not lgpl |
| 19:56.36 | wurp2 | mjr: Ah, makes sense |
| 19:56.43 | wurp2 | I don't like it, but it makes sense |
| 19:56.51 | mjr | you don't have to use qt though even in asu |
| 19:57.02 | mjr | but whatever, |
| 19:57.16 | mjr | the license is not a major issue for me |
| 19:57.16 | roh | the only reason we chose to use the qt middleware and dialer-apps is that they work now, and the fso initiative is not ready yet for primetime. |
| 19:57.46 | roh | besides that, now we know for sure that developers can use _any_ ui tookit to write applications as they need. |
| 19:58.18 | mjr | well the qtopia port would be sensible for app base alone anyway... |
| 19:59.54 | roh | mjr regardless of what happens, if somebody wants to use a existing qtopia app, he can do. even if the menus are efl, the dialer is gtk and the games are python-efl or whatever. |
| 20:00.05 | mjr | yeah I know |
| 20:00.09 | mjr | hence my last statement |
| 20:00.38 | roh | the point is that we now have access to all 'linux apps' in some easy way, and thats also valid for developer base. |
| 20:00.57 | rgl | ah cool :) |
| 20:01.06 | roh | linux on the desktop wouldnt be so great and where its now if there wouldnt have been gtk AND qt. |
| 20:01.31 | wurp2 | I agree on all counts |
| 20:01.58 | roh | the gnome and kde communities often overlap and somehow help doing things differently and learning more about technology than if one only tests one concept and then only uses the other. evolution needs diversity. |
| 20:02.00 | wurp2 | The only thing I don't like about ASU is the timing & the dropping of support for the working GTK platform |
| 20:02.32 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@210-203.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 20:02.37 | wurp2 | Or perhaps it's more accurate to say the hiaitus in support for the GTK platform |
| 20:02.49 | roh | linux development is more evolution in the long run .. in the now it may all have architects and good designers doing work. but in the long run things must be 'good' to prevail |
| 20:03.34 | roh | wurp2 support isnt dropped. there were even bugs fixed related to gtk skinning recently. just there is no telephony-app installed by default which uses gtk |
| 20:04.00 | rgl | what is python-etk? can't we run normal pygtk apps? |
| 20:04.08 | igor321 | is gtk themed now? to match the asu? |
| 20:04.12 | roh | wurp2 when somebody takes the gtk telephony apps and removes the gsmd binding and attaches it to FSO.. i'd really like to see that. |
| 20:04.45 | roh | rgl thats also possible afaik. dunno if all libs are installed, but they can be installed easily by using opkg |
| 20:05.12 | roh | rg1 the openmoko-distribution works like debian, and one can easily install and remove packages to customize the install |
| 20:05.41 | rgl | cool :) |
| 20:05.42 | *** join/#openmoko mung (n=msh@pool-71-174-89-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 20:05.47 | roh | asu will also have a graphical app to do that. switch on, log into some wifi, press update, press upgrade. |
| 20:06.06 | mung | I want to order a GTA02 please! |
| 20:06.09 | mung | heh |
| 20:06.23 | mung | if I'm in the USA, what are my options |
| 20:06.26 | mung | if any? |
| 20:06.28 | russellb | hopes the responsiveness of the ASU image improves ... it seemed far less responsive than the gtk build on the FR as of now ... |
| 20:06.28 | kdubois | if mung can get one, i want one two |
| 20:06.30 | rgl | I can also connect using ssh/telnet from my pc through wifi/usb? |
| 20:06.37 | kdubois | mung: att or tmobile |
| 20:06.45 | mung | I'm going to hold my breath now |
| 20:06.57 | mung | already? |
| 20:07.14 | kdubois | what do you mean," already?" |
| 20:07.17 | mung | no links on the Linuxdevices web page |
| 20:07.18 | mmontour | mung: get really drunk for about a week. When you sober up the OM store should be open. |
| 20:07.24 | mung | the slashdotted page |
| 20:07.39 | mung | ok ok I can has ale |
| 20:07.46 | igor321 | i ordered it this afternoon |
| 20:07.55 | mung | igor321: you in europe? |
| 20:07.59 | igor321 | yupp |
| 20:08.07 | kdubois | glares at igor321 |
| 20:08.20 | mung | we in the Dark Ages of USA can't get good cellies |
| 20:08.27 | igor321 | have to wait for my country's telecom agency to "approve" it unfortunately |
| 20:08.31 | mung | tech backwater USA |
| 20:08.42 | igor321 | went there today with the PDFs from the wiki |
| 20:08.47 | *** join/#openmoko MrKeuner (n=kudo@unaffiliated/mrkeuner) |
| 20:08.50 | mung | ya for now I'd use it as a PDA |
| 20:09.06 | rgl | igor321, what do you mean? can't you use any phone in your country? |
| 20:09.20 | igor321 | rgl: well not really |
| 20:09.37 | MrKeuner | hi all, can openmoko accept and give calls without any problem? i am planning to buy it as a gift as well as buying one for myself |
| 20:09.41 | rgl | igor321, where are you at? |
| 20:09.41 | igor321 | my country says that any imported phone has to be certified |
| 20:09.46 | igor321 | croatia |
| 20:09.52 | wurp2 | mung: Keep checking www.openmoko.com |
| 20:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 20:10.21 | mjr | MrKeuner, without any problem is not for sale right now |
| 20:10.34 | mjr | check back later this year |
| 20:10.52 | MrKeuner | mjr: what kind of problems might she have? |
| 20:10.58 | wurp2 | roh: The issue is that we used to have a release we could pull down and expect basic functionality to mostly work, and as far as I know we have yet to get back to that state |
| 20:11.30 | mjr | MrKeuner, any and all |
| 20:11.36 | mung | Keep checking www.openmoko.com is a good way to forget |
| 20:11.38 | igor321 | wurp2: i think we're already sorta at that state |
| 20:12.11 | wurp2 | igor321: What is the new image to pull? |
| 20:12.40 | *** join/#openmoko trickie (n=trickie@hgaulton.xs4all.nl) |
| 20:12.52 | igor321 | wurp2: dunno, i just saw great progress with the status reports on the web |
| 20:13.00 | roh | wurp2 well.. we didnt have real 'reÃleases' yet. |
| 20:13.03 | igor321 | http://people.openmoko.org/testing/software/Testreport/ |
| 20:14.44 | igor321 | lookin at this link again, it ain't too good, but the progress is evident, look the installer is almost 100% pass :) |
| 20:15.00 | MrKeuner | can I use external flash memory cards in freerunner |
| 20:15.19 | MrKeuner | does it have a microphone? |
| 20:15.34 | igor321 | MrKeuner: yes you can and yes it does |
| 20:15.54 | balrog-kun | well, it's a phone |
| 20:16.08 | MrKeuner | I mean a mic (optimized may be) to record voice |
| 20:16.33 | igor321 | how would you speak into it if it had no mic? |
| 20:16.36 | balrog-kun | it wouldn't be very useful without a mic |
| 20:16.41 | doc|work | heh |
| 20:16.44 | roh | MrKeuner the hardware is ready, but the soware is still alpha. |
| 20:16.52 | wurp2 | MrKeuner: It has the phone mic, you would have to use software to do any clean up, compression, etc. |
| 20:17.17 | balrog-kun | but basically it's no different than a mic connected to your pc |
| 20:17.17 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182055071.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:17.19 | roh | but there is good progress and when asu is finished it will give a quite usable, still minimalistic, but working phone |
| 20:17.23 | wurp2 | But basic recording is very easy, although there's no end user app for it |
| 20:18.41 | MrKeuner | ARM9 that is not an i386 is it? |
| 20:18.52 | igor321 | nope, it's an arm :) |
| 20:19.02 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:19.28 | roh | nope.. arm is a totally different arch. like also sparc, ppc and mips (all not i386 or similar) |
| 20:19.32 | MrKeuner | is there a package manager? |
| 20:19.41 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 20:19.42 | roh | yes. opkg (successor of ipkg) |
| 20:19.44 | igor321 | so yeah guys, on a lighter note, what apps are you looking forward to using or writing for moko? |
| 20:20.04 | igor321 | since most of us will have it soon |
| 20:20.05 | kdubois | igor321: dibs on vlc :D |
| 20:20.16 | igor321 | hehe |
| 20:20.17 | wurp2 | igor321: Smart media sync |
| 20:20.24 | MrKeuner | roh: can I see the repository? |
| 20:20.27 | russellb | i just got into things, but i'm going to start hacking at VoIP related functionality. |
| 20:20.37 | igor321 | i'd like to see a mythtv frontend and a perfect fishing app |
| 20:20.49 | wurp2 | igor321: And movie player, as one I look forward to using |
| 20:20.52 | faern | are there any precompiled images of om that I can test? and how do I get a suitable build of qemu for it? |
| 20:21.06 | roh | MrKeuner which one.. source or packages? |
| 20:21.10 | igor321 | wurp2: i don't think you'll need to wait to long for that |
| 20:21.12 | MrKeuner | packages |
| 20:21.14 | Pyrasi | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:21.18 | MrKeuner | or source |
| 20:21.31 | roh | MrKeuner source is in git.openmoko.org and svn.openmoko.org |
| 20:21.39 | roh | you can browse them via docs.openmoko.org |
| 20:21.42 | igor321 | is anyone doing a youtube browser? |
| 20:21.45 | wurp2 | igor321: I'm using neo1973... I think if I played with mplayer parameters, I could actually have it now |
| 20:22.09 | MrKeuner | roh: OK may be package repository might be easier for me |
| 20:22.29 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kW@unaffiliated/kw) |
| 20:22.44 | igor321 | and i'd also like to see gnash ported |
| 20:22.48 | roh | MrKeuner packages are on different machines, depending on which branch is built. we have the buildhost.openmoko.org for the daily builds and downloads.openmoko.org for longer living stuff |
| 20:23.11 | wurp2 | igor321: I don't think that will be easy... |
| 20:23.35 | MrKeuner | roh: thinking in debian terminology first one is sid repository latter is stable repository I would think? |
| 20:23.36 | wurp2 | igor321: I think to run at good speeds, it may need to transcode to mpeg4 and use glamo |
| 20:23.50 | *** join/#openmoko dj__ (n=dj@88-111-124-86.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:23.51 | igor321 | wurp2: youtube? |
| 20:24.11 | wurp2 | igor321: You know about the bandwidth issues with glamo? |
| 20:24.15 | SpeedEvil | Youtube should be doable without. |
| 20:24.18 | SpeedEvil | In QVGA |
| 20:24.22 | igor321 | wurp2: yes i do |
| 20:24.33 | igor321 | youtube basically is qvga? |
| 20:24.34 | roh | MrKeuner we have no real stable builds yet. |
| 20:24.35 | SpeedEvil | As it's not typically very high framerate, and is low bitrate, easy to download. |
| 20:24.41 | SpeedEvil | easy to decode. |
| 20:24.42 | *** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl) |
| 20:24.50 | igor321 | i think gta02 could pull it at 20 fps |
| 20:24.54 | SpeedEvil | For most stuff, there is a triple-whammy. |
| 20:25.12 | SpeedEvil | Firstly, you've got the limited GPU bandwidth - which is 7M/second. |
| 20:25.29 | LionKMP | faern: mokomakefile can do those |
| 20:25.35 | SpeedEvil | Secondly, you've got the fact that that's at 0% CPU - if you need 50% CPU, it drops back to 3.5M/s |
| 20:25.54 | igor321 | i think most of us are aware of that by now :) |
| 20:25.59 | SpeedEvil | Thirdly, subtract from that 3.5M/s the bandwidth read from SD. |
| 20:26.06 | MrKeuner | can package manager download as well? |
| 20:26.19 | SpeedEvil | igor321: I was recapping for the newbies. |
| 20:26.27 | TAsn | SpeedEvil, there will never be video playback? |
| 20:26.30 | roh | MrKeuner yes. |
| 20:26.36 | igor321 | according to raster qvga was 19 fps from SD, 21 from elsewhere |
| 20:26.39 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: it's a little more complex. |
| 20:26.41 | roh | online-update via http like a debian machine |
| 20:26.51 | igor321 | so it's certainly good enoght for youtube |
| 20:27.06 | wurp2 | igor321: I missed that post... |
| 20:27.08 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: it can just about barely do QVGA at low-framerate from your average VCD class video, but it will skip a lot of frames. |
| 20:27.23 | MrKeuner | people, looks like really great work is here. thank you. I appreciate it. |
| 20:27.31 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: if the video is mpeg-4, transcoded, then it can do it very, very easily due to the coprocessor. |
| 20:27.41 | mjr | mmh, youtube has mp4 available nowadays though (check keepvid.com for how to get a download link) - you could play that with the gpu decoding |
| 20:27.46 | *** part/#openmoko mudyc (n=mudyc@ip.fi) |
| 20:27.51 | TAsn | so mp4 will be usable? |
| 20:27.57 | igor321 | already is |
| 20:28.11 | MrKeuner | can I choose a pure free software option or do I need some open source projects as well in order to have basic functionality |
| 20:28.11 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: it can probably do youtube quite well even without it being mpeg-4, as that is very small - often under QVGA - and low framerate. |
| 20:28.44 | TAsn | SpeedEvil, i meant mp4 generally, meaning my homevids in mp4 or something. |
| 20:28.48 | mjr | MrKeuner, your question makes no sense |
| 20:29.01 | wurp2 | mjr: Doesn't it? |
| 20:29.20 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: if the files are some sort of mpeg-4 that the GPU supports, then you can easily play them. |
| 20:29.39 | wurp2 | mjr: He's asking if he can run a Debian-style super-Free release, or if he needs non-GPL compliant code |
| 20:29.39 | TAsn | SpeedEvil, wicked :) |
| 20:29.49 | wurp2 | In the firmware, gsm code is totally closed |
| 20:29.49 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: if they are not, then they will - if they are large or high res - not really work very well. |
| 20:29.56 | TAsn | MrKeuner, i think you can't |
| 20:30.07 | SpeedEvil | TAsn: high FPS that is. Without being transcoded to a format that is supported |
| 20:30.08 | TAsn | since there's the gsm firmware |
| 20:30.12 | MrKeuner | TAsn: is that because of drivers? |
| 20:30.13 | wurp2 | MrKeuner: But, the short answer is no, I believe. There is definitely non-free firmware code that you need |
| 20:30.21 | wurp2 | MrKeuner: Not sure about the platform code |
| 20:30.39 | MrKeuner | wurp2: I see thanks |
| 20:30.40 | mjr | wurp2, the firmwares are not "open source projects" though either :] |
| 20:30.51 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: For what definition of "easily"? |
| 20:30.57 | SpeedEvil | The GSM part is a seperate processor, that admittedly has leaked docs - but there is no likelyhood of an opensource driver anytime soon. |
| 20:31.02 | MrKeuner | mjr: I remember reading somewhere 100% floss |
| 20:31.03 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: You mean easy for a coder, not easy for an end-user (currently) |
| 20:31.12 | mjr | MrKeuner, yes, on the application processor |
| 20:31.27 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: Yes - I mean - eventually - given development of reportedly existing software. |
| 20:31.38 | mjr | MrKeuner, but you know, there are some 5 processors on board in integrated peripherals |
| 20:31.44 | SpeedEvil | mjr: 7 IIRC |
| 20:32.17 | MrKeuner | are there any intention to totally free the hardware? |
| 20:32.19 | mjr | and while it would be sweet to have free software on those, it's not possible in present conditions |
| 20:32.26 | SpeedEvil | mjr: bluetooth, wifi, GSM hard-realtime, GSM interface, SoC, RISC unit in the Glamo, GPS |
| 20:32.40 | SpeedEvil | MrKeuner: that would actually be illegal in many jurisdictions. |
| 20:33.12 | SpeedEvil | MrKeuner: once the first person misused the freerunner, with open GSM drivers, it'd become illegal to sell under the mobile phone hacking laws. |
| 20:33.16 | SpeedEvil | (in the UK) |
| 20:34.11 | MrKeuner | SpeedEvil: why would free gsm drivers impose a security issue, may I ask if not taking too much time |
| 20:34.12 | SpeedEvil | mjr: and the audio router chip may almost be turing complete :) |
| 20:34.40 | SpeedEvil | MrKeuner: because you can - for example - do direct phone-phone transfers of data monopolising one channel without going through the tower. |
| 20:34.59 | SpeedEvil | MrKeuner: this gives you 'free' talk between two handsets, and datarates of maybe 500kbits/sec. |
| 20:35.18 | SpeedEvil | MrKeuner: and wipes out 8-16 users that may be makine emergency calls. |
| 20:37.02 | MrKeuner | SpeedEvil: I did not know we are sharing an "air bandwidth"? with people in the same location. |
| 20:37.28 | mjr | I didn't know there was any other way |
| 20:38.11 | mjr | well, with rf, anyway; now, those autodirected laser links like in Rainbows End ;) |
| 20:39.13 | SpeedEvil | MrKeuner: Cellphones are fundamentally half an invention. |
| 20:39.43 | SpeedEvil | MrKeuner: The other half is the spectrum and timeslot planning that the towers do to ensure that no two phones transmit at the same frequency and the same time. |
| 20:40.01 | SpeedEvil | MrKeuner: this means that a distant relatively low power phone can be recieved. |
| 20:40.15 | SpeedEvil | MrKeuner: without this, they would be _much_ less reliable. |
| 20:41.41 | MrKeuner | in such case I think it would be fair to accept a concortium handling the source rather than solely gsm operators |
| 20:42.00 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@82.201.222.131) |
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| 20:42.52 | kdubois | the problem comes in making the consortium organized and professional enough for the service operators to trust it though... |
| 20:44.05 | mjr | MrKeuner, anyway, discounting that, all of the hardware in the Freerunner is operable with free drivers on the application processor side, though some of their programming informations are under NDA. That's pretty much the best OM could do. |
| 20:44.53 | MrKeuner | OM is open manufacturing? |
| 20:45.02 | mjr | OpenMoko |
| 20:45.08 | MrKeuner | oh :) sorry |
| 20:45.09 | mjr | the inc. |
| 20:45.45 | MrKeuner | thanks for enlightening me, sounds fair so far |
| 20:46.50 | *** part/#openmoko ohin (n=opera@zli1-v-1-166.static.adsl.vol.cz) |
| 20:47.05 | MrKeuner | any news on north america store? |
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| 20:48.00 | SpeedEvil | mjr: though the programming stuff leakedd |
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| 20:48.08 | mjr | SpeedEvil, yes well, at least for the GSM chip, yes |
| 20:49.40 | mjr | the gpu stuff like mpeg4 decoding one hears balrog-kun did using libglamo and study of a windows mobile driver or something |
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| 21:24.45 | Dave | How are you gentlemen? |
| 21:25.08 | doc|work | hey Dave |
| 21:25.11 | n1c0 | Hi Dave |
| 21:25.12 | CVirus | hello |
| 21:25.26 | doc|work | it's weird to see someone typing using my name |
| 21:25.41 | *** join/#openmoko bipak (n=bip@p57B84DB8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:27.12 | balrog-kun | on another channel i am that would trigger all about 40 people to change their nicks to Dave (with some suffix perhaps) in a matter of minute |
| 21:27.21 | Dave | gives doc|work a questionable look. |
| 21:27.43 | Dave | draws his sword. |
| 21:28.24 | *** part/#openmoko Pyrasi (n=Pyrasi@254-137-216.csiweb.net) |
| 21:29.16 | Dave | In any case, I'll slay all those who challenge me, later. |
| 21:29.26 | Dave | For now, it's time to try and get a camera working with the GTA02. |
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| 21:30.33 | Dave | Oh, who wanted to know about the 8GB flash? |
| 21:31.12 | textshell | Dave: i think quite some want to know. |
| 21:31.18 | Dave | Ah :] |
| 21:31.30 | Dave | Well I shall keep you updated on that soon :) |
| 21:31.39 | n1c0 | I have a question... but I understand that you folks can feel upset, so feel free to tell me shut up: I stopped looking at openmoko ML for a while, and now the release of freerunner is on the way... but I wonder about the battery life issue |
| 21:32.06 | textshell | i think there's a wiki page that would be nice to be updated too. |
| 21:32.50 | textshell | n1c0: i wonder too. But there are no strong indicators for remaining hardware bugs. |
| 21:33.20 | n1c0 | I 've just looked at the community updates page but there is no clear conclusion ... |
| 21:34.01 | n1c0 | textshell: good point. |
| 21:34.05 | textshell | there seem to be software problems with suspend/resume. |
| 21:34.19 | n1c0 | okay |
| 21:34.44 | igor321 | i think they're almost resolved |
| 21:35.09 | n1c0 | I always face these advanced power management issues, but halt and reboot should be fine at least. |
| 21:35.26 | *** join/#openmoko rgl (n=rgl@lx2-84-90-11-153.netvisao.pt) |
| 21:35.27 | textshell | igor321: but not yet long enough to have good reports on the battery time.... |
| 21:35.57 | igor321 | textshell: the best we got is 20 h or so |
| 21:36.00 | igor321 | i forgot |
| 21:36.10 | igor321 | when i say we i mean the community |
| 21:36.18 | n1c0 | It is a very black point since the matter has been revealed a long time ago.... but still no fix ! |
| 21:36.21 | igor321 | it was on the ML, someone did test it |
| 21:39.47 | *** join/#openmoko apt (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 21:39.47 | *** topic/#openmoko is Some resellers have shipped Freerunners, but the OpenMoko store is not yet open. Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates . | ASU means August Software Update and is coming soon. |
| 21:39.58 | textshell | n1c0: *if* i remember correctly that 20h figure was with every thing powered down except gsm and cpu at full speed. |
| 21:40.08 | n1c0 | Okay, and what about the wrong electronix component onboard ? It should have been fixed if it was an hardware issue right ? |
| 21:40.17 | SpeedEvil | n1c0: it has been. |
| 21:40.35 | n1c0 | okay thank you guys |
| 21:40.44 | SpeedEvil | n1c0: it was - as I understand it - a missing resistor - which would have perhaps caused damage longterm. |
| 21:40.54 | SpeedEvil | It was certainly outside the spec of the PMU |
| 21:40.57 | textshell | SpeedEvil: yes, if the suspend will work reliable i think we have enough standby time for the phone to be usable. |
| 21:41.13 | igor321 | suspend is _crucial_ |
| 21:41.23 | n1c0 | and depends on kernel dev team right ? |
| 21:41.33 | doc|work | textshell:how much are we looking at now? |
| 21:41.39 | SpeedEvil | textshell: with all off and suspended to RAM, it should last a couple of months. |
| 21:41.51 | SpeedEvil | textshell: suspended to disk, and 'off' - better than a year. |
| 21:41.53 | doc|work | SpeedEvil: with auto wakeup on call? |
| 21:41.57 | n1c0 | SpeedEvil: waow ! |
| 21:42.08 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: no - those are with GSM off. |
| 21:42.19 | doc|work | SpeedEvil: how long with gsm? |
| 21:42.29 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: though in principle you could wake the modem every hour or so and check for missed calls. |
| 21:42.35 | doc|work | not much point if gsm can't wake it out of its state :) |
| 21:42.37 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: over a week. |
| 21:42.48 | doc|work | SpeedEvil: really? now? |
| 21:42.59 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: probably more like two. No - I'm speaking of hypotheticals. |
| 21:43.04 | doc|work | ah :/ |
| 21:43.10 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: if the published numbers are accurate. |
| 21:43.24 | doc|work | a week would be very long by smartphone standards |
| 21:44.17 | *** join/#openmoko mirezwer (n=mirezwer@101-168-222-85.adsl.verat.net) |
| 21:44.25 | SpeedEvil | More accurate way to say it would be 3% of battery/day in standby 10% additional to have GSM on and wakeable, 3%/hour to have CPU idle, ... |
| 21:44.27 | doc|work | in fact, that'd be reasonably impressive by non-smartphone standards. my motorola l2 doesn't last that long and I have no friends :( |
| 21:44.37 | doc|work | (who call me or text me) |
| 21:44.42 | SpeedEvil | (numbers approximate) |
| 21:45.16 | n1c0 | doc|work: true, but not sure that every window$ mobile or whatever else smartphone gets the same power management |
| 21:45.30 | doc|work | n1c0: true, but even so |
| 21:46.09 | Dave | How are you doing today, Speed? |
| 21:46.27 | n1c0 | suspend to ram should not reach high scores, but hibernation.... for sure |
| 21:46.28 | Dave | doc - aww |
| 21:46.37 | Dave | I've already maxxxed it. |
| 21:46.46 | Dave | gogo gadget gps! |
| 21:46.56 | SpeedEvil | Dave: fine. Still having trouble with assorted things. |
| 21:47.09 | textshell | now the real intersting bit of information is how well is the suspend resume code working yet.... |
| 21:47.17 | SpeedEvil | n1c0: suspend-RAM means 'instant' on. (in principle.) |
| 21:47.32 | SpeedEvil | n1c0: suspending to 'disk' will take >20 secs to come back. |
| 21:47.44 | n1c0 | SpeedEvil: even on a phone ? |
| 21:48.07 | SpeedEvil | n1c0: yes. If you drop the power to the RAM, it has to pull all the data off SD - which is slow. |
| 21:48.18 | n1c0 | SpeedEvil: I thought hibernation was the keys for such devices... :( |
| 21:48.25 | anishmangal2002 | can the GSM wake the phone while in suspend-RAM? |
| 21:48.47 | SpeedEvil | anishmangal2002: yes |
| 21:49.20 | textshell | i wouldn't even really consider suspend to SD. I don't think there's that much software running on it that a reboot would hurt that much... |
| 21:49.39 | SpeedEvil | Power consumption in suspend-RAM - with everything else off - is around 5%/day or so. |
| 21:49.41 | CVirus | lukhas: did you reopen the store ? |
| 21:49.56 | SpeedEvil | textshell: reboot is even slower |
| 21:50.13 | doc|work | SpeedEvil: if suspend to ram can be woken out of by call then you really can have a month battery life :) |
| 21:50.30 | *** join/#openmoko couretca (n=Renault@AToulon-151-1-137-12.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:50.33 | SpeedEvil | Power consumption in suspend-disk is hugely under that. |
| 21:50.35 | anishmangal2002 | SpeedEvil: Has that been implemented as yet? |
| 21:50.48 | doc|work | SpeedEvil: sure, but suspend-disk is to slow to come out of for calls |
| 21:50.52 | doc|work | *too |
| 21:50.53 | SpeedEvil | anishmangal2002: I'm speaking of end-cases - when it's all implemented. |
| 21:51.00 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: I agree - usually. |
| 21:51.13 | textshell | doc|work: if you want to wake on call you need GSM powered. |
| 21:51.27 | textshell | and that's a big energy user... |
| 21:51.29 | mjr | just gimme a couple of days... |
| 21:51.34 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD9539388.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:51.35 | SpeedEvil | doc|home: GSM powered is maybe 10%/day additional to those numbers. |
| 21:51.48 | doc|work | textshell: ah, ok, so you can't suspend at that stage, can you? |
| 21:51.53 | doc|work | (to ram) |
| 21:52.35 | textshell | doc|work: suspend to ram should be ok. Only you need suspend to ram + GSM powered. |
| 21:52.42 | mjr | *sigh* |
| 21:52.46 | doc|work | ah, right, so about 15% per day :/ |
| 21:52.49 | textshell | GSM is done on a dedicated controller. |
| 21:52.51 | doc|work | still not bad at all |
| 21:52.59 | mjr | rampant confusion... |
| 21:53.01 | SpeedEvil | textshell: a couple of them even. |
| 21:53.15 | SpeedEvil | textshell: but it can't take a call - I don't think - without the SoC awake |
| 21:53.59 | textshell | it needs to be able to reliablly and selectivly (only on calls and sms) wake the SoC... |
| 21:54.10 | mjr | the soc could go to sleep after answering a call though... |
| 21:54.16 | textshell | and the SoC needs to be fast enough to get back to userspace to answer. |
| 21:54.32 | SpeedEvil | There are plausible 'half-way-houses'. |
| 21:54.55 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik1 (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 21:54.55 | SpeedEvil | A minimally configureable 1M or so image that just does answering calls and stuff while the rest is pulled from disk. |
| 21:55.10 | mjr | doesn't seem worth it |
| 21:55.19 | SpeedEvil | That's a lot of work to go to to get from (say) 10 days with suspend-RAM to 15 days with suspend-disk. |
| 21:56.20 | doc|work | 10 days is a great competitive advantage for openmoko |
| 21:56.20 | textshell | SpeedEvil: for incoming calls suspend to ram is likely needed. And with that you don't need to scale down an image. |
| 21:56.35 | SpeedEvil | textshell: without hacks, yes. |
| 21:56.56 | SpeedEvil | textshell: and suspending to disk to get 50% extra standby is definately a hack. |
| 21:57.35 | SpeedEvil | It wouldn't be so bad if we had the full potential speed of the SD - the one I have can read out a 64M image in 5s or so. |
| 21:57.49 | textshell | hmm, reloading at 7Mb/s all the memory might itself take some time. |
| 21:58.06 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - this is not practical in normal use. |
| 21:58.28 | mjr | "just gimme a couple of days..." |
| 21:59.02 | SpeedEvil | But in some cases - you need to be contactable - but you're going backpacking for a couple of weeks - it might be just fine. |
| 21:59.20 | SpeedEvil | If it's an emergency, 20s is going to be just fine. |
| 21:59.40 | CVirus | Was it trolltech or Openmoko who ported Qtopia to Xorg / |
| 21:59.41 | CVirus | ? |
| 22:00.57 | textshell | SpeedEvil: yes, for special use cases like "somewhere with GSM coverage; without power for days and only for real emergencies" it might work. |
| 22:01.22 | textshell | But adding a solar panel might be a lot easier... |
| 22:01.28 | doc|work | hah |
| 22:01.31 | LionKMP | well, lame question, is there a recharger in the pack? |
| 22:01.36 | doc|work | LionKMP: yep |
| 22:01.45 | *** join/#openmoko jOERG_rw (n=jr@p5493D638.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:02.03 | LionKMP | great! :) a fastcharger one then, I guess? |
| 22:02.11 | doc|work | could be nice if you could just outright suspend to disk and then have something listening which said "hold on a minute, my phone's waking up" :) |
| 22:02.33 | doc|work | LionKMP: yep, 1-2hours iirc |
| 22:03.21 | LionKMP | doc|work: thanks, very good. (I saw a very scary/complicated how to recharge guide :) ) |
| 22:06.36 | mjr | CVirus, you mean X, and apparently there was some code present but quite a lot work to be done still |
| 22:06.48 | mjr | CVirus, so afaik both |
| 22:07.34 | johnl | searches for resources on getting andriod on the gta02 |
| 22:07.54 | mjr | don't bother, it's not possible yet |
| 22:08.37 | johnl | lot of work to make it work? |
| 22:08.57 | mjr | some work, which can't be done until they, you know, actually free it |
| 22:09.08 | kelvie_ | android only runs on the armv5 instruction set I think |
| 22:09.18 | kelvie_ | and the gta02 uses armv4 |
| 22:09.26 | johnl | it's not free already? |
| 22:09.30 | mjr | it's not |
| 22:09.35 | CVirus | mjr: X == Xorg |
| 22:09.39 | mjr | there's hype and promises of freeing |
| 22:09.55 | johnl | I just saw a video where the big haired owned of google called it "open source" |
| 22:10.01 | johnl | whatever open source means tbh. |
| 22:10.17 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja (n=zefanja@drsd-4db35311.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 22:10.28 | johnl | not that I trust google of course |
| 22:10.31 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=MarcOCha@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:10.43 | johnl | these wephone people seem to be in bed with them somewhat |
| 22:10.56 | johnl | guess they're working on it. |
| 22:11.05 | johnl | since it's clearly a gta02, heh |
| 22:11.27 | *** join/#openmoko mboldisc (n=mike@c-66-41-225-167.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 22:12.21 | *** join/#openmoko ramaya (n=alex@adsl105-224.kln.forthnet.gr) |
| 22:12.28 | mjr | suspends to ram |
| 22:12.42 | mjr | aww, what the heck, I don't have to wake up fast, I'll make it to disk |
| 22:12.46 | SpeedEvil | textshell: or low battery conditions. |
| 22:13.09 | SpeedEvil | textshell: or if you've explicitly told it to go to sleep when you do. |
| 22:13.54 | *** join/#openmoko Railer (n=Railer@S0106001839c24abd.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 22:15.36 | Railer | cellphones are duty free into canada reguardless where they are manufactured! |
| 22:15.51 | Railer | bbl\ |
| 22:16.28 | *** join/#openmoko anishmangal2002 (n=anish@59.178.60.157) |
| 22:16.29 | doc|work | Railer: really? nice one! |
| 22:16.43 | doc|work | Railer: so it's just delivery + gst |
| 22:23.55 | bricode | johnl: Yep. That's correct on the wephone. |
| 22:24.28 | johnl | actually, android looks less attractive now I have some actual facts about it |
| 22:24.46 | CVirus | Guys, I'm not much of a mailing lists user .. but when I click reply in a certain thread page in my gmail ... it automatically enters the E-mail of the user in the To field ... instead of the E-mail of the list |
| 22:25.05 | CVirus | if i sent it this way .. is it posted to the list or not |
| 22:27.11 | kelvie_ | CVirus: no.. use reply-to-all |
| 22:27.14 | balrog-kun | if the list is not in CC, then nope |
| 22:27.34 | kelvie_ | I'll argue that gmail's reply button should be reply to all by default :/ |
| 22:27.41 | kelvie_ | I hate accidentally taking stuff off the list |
| 22:28.08 | CVirus | reply to all adds the user to the To field and the list to the CC field |
| 22:28.27 | kelvie_ | CVirus: is that not what you want? |
| 22:28.38 | CVirus | I just want to post to the list in this thread |
| 22:29.27 | CVirus | Why would it send to the user |
| 22:29.32 | kelvie_ | .. yes |
| 22:29.34 | kelvie_ | but that's what you want |
| 22:29.45 | kelvie_ | if you're replying to them, would you not want to let them know? |
| 22:29.46 | CVirus | no ... I want to post to the list |
| 22:29.58 | CVirus | no .. I'm replying on the thread |
| 22:29.59 | kelvie_ | ah, then compose an email to the list |
| 22:30.10 | kelvie_ | then forge the name yourself? |
| 22:30.18 | CVirus | lol .. what name ? |
| 22:30.21 | CVirus | am I stupid ? |
| 22:30.23 | kelvie_ | the To: |
| 22:30.30 | *** part/#openmoko johnl (n=johnl@cpc1-leds8-0-0-cust743.leed.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:30.31 | kelvie_ | I don't see the issue with sending it to the person is |
| 22:30.41 | kelvie_ | if you're replying to their message in the email, you set them as the To: recipient |
| 22:30.43 | CVirus | simply .. how can I post an E-mail to a certain thread ? |
| 22:31.01 | kelvie_ | you send an email to the list with the corrent in-reply-id |
| 22:31.06 | kelvie_ | s/corrent/correct |
| 22:34.07 | CVirus | got it now |
| 22:34.09 | CVirus | thanks |
| 22:35.13 | *** join/#openmoko mylar (n=brian@91.84.124.158) |
| 22:36.05 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:39.58 | *** part/#openmoko MrKeuner (n=kudo@unaffiliated/mrkeuner) |
| 22:41.32 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@adsl-ull-91-47.49-151.net24.it) |
| 22:42.51 | Ghiottone | hello |
| 22:43.12 | Ghiottone | is it possible to buy a debug board for neo1973? how much does it cost now? |
| 22:43.36 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=tim@ppp-88-217-49-171.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 22:44.05 | CVirus | I don't think those are sold anymore ... check on ebay |
| 22:44.53 | Ghiottone | CVirus, just did but no result |
| 22:47.21 | textshell | Ghiottone: maybe a freerunner debug board will work? |
| 22:47.53 | textshell | they should be on sale already. I think there's some info about debug board compat on the mailling list. |
| 22:49.29 | Ghiottone | textshell, I think it will be compatible. But since I own a Neo1973 and I won't buy Freerunner I hoped I could buy debug board v1 at a cheaper price |
| 22:49.47 | textshell | not likely. |
| 22:49.57 | Ghiottone | textshell, why? |
| 22:50.45 | textshell | i guess there are no factory new old boards anymore. So only ebay, but you said there are non sold there... |
| 22:51.15 | OJW | ask on mailing list, might be a better way of finding them |
| 22:51.36 | Ghiottone | yeah probably they won't make it anymore. But maybe a previous owner or unsold ones |
| 22:51.50 | diego_ | Ghiottone, probably the new one is quite compatible with neo1973 |
| 22:52.43 | diego_ | btw, the price for the new one is $99 |
| 22:52.59 | Ghiottone | OJW, good idea. I'll probably wait a few days more, just to wait for the freerunner to start shippinh |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#openmoko Vegar_ (n=vegar@beplacid.net) |
| 22:53.11 | Ghiottone | s/shippinh/shipping/ |
| 22:53.50 | diego_ | Ghiottone, some one is already shipping |
| 22:53.50 | balrog-kun | Ghiottone: jOERG_rw would know if the new debug board works with gta01, or you can ask on the list |
| 22:54.30 | diego_ | http://www.openmoko.com/store.html |
| 22:54.53 | Ghiottone | diego_, balrog-kun, yes, it should be compatible. I'd just like to save some money buying the v1 version as I won't buy Gta01 so v2 has no plus for me |
| 22:55.08 | Ghiottone | s/Gta01/GTA02/ |
| 22:55.33 | balrog-kun | well, i wouldn't bet on it, i'd definitely check first |
| 22:56.24 | diego_ | good luck |
| 22:56.28 | diego_ | :) |
| 22:56.53 | diego_ | goodnight |
| 22:59.13 | Ghiottone | diego_awak, thanks |
| 22:59.38 | dcordes | is it planned to introduce 3g capabilites to the several present phone/modem deamons present in openmoko in long term? |
| 23:00.03 | d3vice | dcordes, there are polls and sig, but no official answer |
| 23:01.38 | dcordes | I'd like to use openmoko on my htc kaiser but that's not possible with the current situation which also applies to many other devices in the wild |
| 23:02.34 | *** join/#openmoko Vegar_ (n=vegar@beplacid.net) |
| 23:02.53 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: sure it's possible! Just port linux, ... |
| 23:03.32 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja_ (n=zefanja@drsd-4db35683.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 23:03.38 | Ghiottone | balrog-kun, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Connecting_Neo1973_with_Debug_Board_v2 |
| 23:03.48 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: Done, ..? |
| 23:05.21 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst_ (n=Horst@e176100222.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:06.34 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: then you need to get all the ancillary stuff working - hardware, ... - then crosscompile, then adapt for your screen size |
| 23:07.23 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: already did several builds, including x11-image openmoko-image openmoko-fso X isn't starting and it's hard to debug atm |
| 23:07.51 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: can't I poke with the gsmd or whatever is the current daemon from command line? |
| 23:08.03 | *** join/#openmoko fenfir (n=fenfir@ppp-70-254-46-55.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) |
| 23:10.00 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 23:11.28 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: ssh in, start X, see what the errors are. |
| 23:13.56 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: no can't got no way in yet. that's why I say it's hard to debug it. Can't I debug the gsm stuff from the command line? |
| 23:14.22 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: the htckaiser has a qwerty |
| 23:14.23 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: you can't ssh in? |
| 23:14.29 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: oh |
| 23:14.31 | dcordes | no networking yet |
| 23:14.39 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: well - start X and output the output to a file |
| 23:14.45 | SpeedEvil | Then look at those errors |
| 23:15.30 | dcordes | that's also impossible because of lack of storage drivers. I boot the rootfs as ramdisk and am locked there. that's why I'd just like to experiment with the openmoko modem programs from a cli |
| 23:15.39 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 23:15.44 | SpeedEvil | got sound? |
| 23:15.51 | SpeedEvil | festival? |
| 23:15.54 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=ahacic@BSN-95-237-38.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 23:16.28 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-144-137-197-243.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 23:16.35 | dcordes | well the handset sound but I don't know if we can acces it yet for different purposes than phone calls yet |
| 23:16.43 | dcordes | yet |
| 23:16.44 | dcordes | ^^ |
| 23:17.04 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: You start X and it just goes blank? |
| 23:17.43 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: no it actually draws the usual X checkers background half the screen |
| 23:17.50 | dcordes | and sometimes third screen |
| 23:18.01 | dcordes | and your frozen in that half-background then |
| 23:18.44 | dcordes | rest is black |
| 23:19.08 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: and that's definetly just an x problem. the console-images work perfectly |
| 23:27.19 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: sorry - no insight. |
| 23:27.34 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: without network or persistant storage, it's hard. |
| 23:28.32 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: is the modem up? |
| 23:28.35 | *** join/#openmoko nab (n=nab@64-172-115-11.ded.pacbell.net) |
| 23:30.59 | cesarb | wurp2: usb doesn't have to change speed, it uses a separate PLL, but for some reason it stops working after a change |
| 23:31.16 | cesarb | wurp2: what else doesn't work: sound, sd, didn't test bluetooth... |
| 23:31.53 | cesarb | wurp2: and you can't go deep into the lowest speeds without adding code to for instance actually disable the lcd driver instead of just blanking it |
| 23:33.15 | SpeedEvil | Though not on gTA02 |
| 23:33.44 | SpeedEvil | (LCD - as it's not conneced there) |
| 23:34.07 | SpeedEvil | cesarb: I dohn't suppose you know if the glamo bandwidth is independant of cock rate? |
| 23:35.21 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@logan.freelock.com) |
| 23:35.55 | t_s_o | so, for gta03, are we looking at HSPA? |
| 23:36.11 | SpeedEvil | t: no |
| 23:36.31 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: no idea |
| 23:36.41 | SpeedEvil | 'simply' dropping the glamo, and some other minor stuff like adding camera and changing the case |
| 23:36.50 | t_s_o | to bad. these days i usually end up using my phone as a "modem" |
| 23:37.26 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: yea modem works fine |
| 23:37.36 | *** join/#openmoko slomo__ (n=slomo@e177189127.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:37.39 | *** join/#openmoko Railer (n=Railer@S0106001839c24abd.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 23:37.46 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: You could get GPRS up. And ssh through that |
| 23:38.33 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: we've got (virtual, it's just shared ram buffers) character devices for AT, DATA and GPS |
| 23:38.42 | dcordes | where data is 3g network conenction |
| 23:39.00 | SpeedEvil | the 3G modem presents an AT interface? |
| 23:39.05 | SpeedEvil | Or is it horribly more complex? |
| 23:39.16 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: no 3g is seperate. it's 3 interfaces |
| 23:39.39 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: ah. |
| 23:39.44 | dcordes | I think one can assume gprs goes through the AT |
| 23:39.45 | *** part/#openmoko kduboi1 (n=kevin@d149-67-242-122.clv.wideopenwest.com) |
| 23:39.52 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: well - do whatever to bring PPP up I mean. |
| 23:40.00 | dcordes | but that's helluvan idea |
| 23:40.01 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: though od course that may be non-trivial. |
| 23:40.20 | SpeedEvil | Or as a stupid work-around, SMS out the last line of the log |
| 23:40.26 | dcordes | SpeedEvil: know a well documented list of commands required for manual gprs setup? |
| 23:41.41 | SpeedEvil | The wiki has a not very clear walkthrough. |
| 23:41.47 | SpeedEvil | That has worked for some people. |
| 23:53.21 | wurp2 | It eventually worked for me |
| 23:53.41 | SpeedEvil | It worked for me after a couple of hours. |
| 23:53.54 | SpeedEvil | Then I upgraded my device without backing it up, and I haven't bothered. |
| 23:54.05 | *** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=GoD@82.201.174.150) |
| 23:54.43 | wurp2 | It took me a couple of weeks :-) |
| 23:55.08 | wurp2 | I finally searched for info from other people on the GoPhone service & discovered that I had to use a different dialing sequence |
