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| 01:39.24 | kdean06 | Anyone know how to take screenshots of the ASU? |
| 01:40.55 | abraxa_ | kdean06: Can you install gpe-scap? |
| 01:41.32 | kdean06 | I don't think so. :P |
| 01:41.39 | kdean06 | Gimme a sec. :P |
| 01:41.42 | kdean06 | Lemme find out why. |
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| 01:43.21 | kdean06 | ASU is improving. :) |
| 01:43.25 | kdean06 | I'm happy about that. :D |
| 01:43.51 | abraxa_ | yay! |
| 01:44.48 | kdean06 | lmfao |
| 01:45.04 | kdean06 | As I said that, the half renders E window popped up to say "Fail". |
| 01:45.24 | patoh | are there screenshots/screencass of ASU out there? |
| 01:45.32 | kdean06 | patoh, I'm working on it! |
| 01:45.33 | kdean06 | :) |
| 01:46.09 | kdean06 | abraxa_, Fixed networking, gre-scap is installing. |
| 01:46.34 | kdean06 | IS that the same app that was on 2007.02? |
| 01:46.56 | abraxa_ | yup |
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| 01:47.14 | abraxa_ | http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/projects/gpe-scap.shtml |
| 01:47.33 | kdean06 | that's the one. |
| 01:47.40 | kdean06 | Thanks a ton. :) |
| 01:47.44 | abraxa_ | You're welcome |
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| 01:50.54 | orzo | hello |
| 01:51.09 | orzo | i want to check out and build openmoko from scratch. How much space is needed? |
| 01:51.48 | SpeedEvil | 15G+ or so |
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| 02:07.06 | kdean06 | abraxa_, Is there a package in the repos to install the Qtopia media player? |
| 02:11.40 | *** part/#openmoko LetoTo1 (n=paul@bofh.xelerance.com) |
| 02:16.57 | kdean06 | :) |
| 02:17.03 | kdean06 | I'm getting great screens. :D |
| 02:17.29 | kdean06 | Hopefully these images will be half as exciting as the Freerunner unboxing was. :) |
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| 02:31.58 | jeffszusz | hello everyone |
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| 02:41.41 | bkrus1 | ello |
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| 03:17.07 | kdean06 | Nice... |
| 03:17.18 | kdean06 | Hold AUX for a few seconds and it suspends. :) |
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| 04:19.15 | ljp | does it resume? |
| 04:22.19 | raster | only if you are nice to it |
| 04:22.56 | mwester | mutters something about custom kernels resuming just fine... |
| 04:23.07 | ljp | :) |
| 04:28.46 | ljp | I could make a custom kernel that doesnt even boot |
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| 04:43.14 | mbuf | i re-created my ssh keys and uploaded them 24 hours back; still i get "Permission denied (publickey)" when I try to checkout from the repos; any suggestions? |
| 04:43.21 | mbuf | repos == projects.openmoko.org |
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| 04:47.29 | VK5FOSS | hi all. where can i download the virtual os images from? |
| 04:47.50 | VK5FOSS | i'm guessing theres a developer page i should be looking at...? |
| 04:49.17 | dcordes | VK5FOSS: you wanna try openmoko in qemu? |
| 04:49.51 | VK5FOSS | dcordes, yes |
| 04:52.08 | dcordes | that's easy. there is script called moko makefile. did you look in the wiki? |
| 04:52.37 | VK5FOSS | no i havent, i wasnt sure where to start. i'll go and check it out. thank you ! |
| 04:52.58 | dcordes | try looking for qemu and moko makefile |
| 04:55.12 | kdean06 | VK5FOSS, You might find this of use -> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Using_MokoMakefile |
| 04:55.52 | VK5FOSS | kdean06, (hi mate!) cheers |
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| 05:02.05 | rwhitby | mwester: haven't OM incorporated all your sweet resume patches yet? |
| 05:03.14 | mwester | On the -andy branch (although they need some cleanup), but not in the main kernel. Also we do not yet have the Qtopia patch for suspend/resume accepted. |
| 05:03.49 | mwester | Getting close, though! |
| 05:04.34 | kdean06 | Suspend with AUX, resume with power. :P |
| 05:04.49 | kdean06 | Exposure can tweak those settings. |
| 05:04.51 | kdean06 | What's missing? |
| 05:06.10 | mwester | mainly the ability to coordinate suspend/resume of the kernel (GSM and serial drivers) with the suspend/resume activity of Qtopia (or any other GSM management user-space software) |
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| 05:08.37 | kdean06 | So when the GSM system goes to sleep, the Qtopia dialer recognizes that it's buddy is sleep. Okay. |
| 05:08.58 | mwester | Actually the other way around. |
| 05:09.14 | kdean06 | Ah, okay. |
| 05:09.52 | mwester | Qtopia goes to sleep, but nothing puts the GSM to sleep. It seems that some undocumented SoC behavior eventually puts it safely to bed, but there's some race conditions left -- some rather large ones. |
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| 05:27.39 | milos_ | !logs |
| 05:27.41 | cdbot2 | Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: |
| 05:27.42 | cdbot2 | http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko |
| 05:27.43 | cdbot2 | Live-logs are available at |
| 05:27.45 | cdbot2 | http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog |
| 05:27.47 | cdbot2 | See ?? help-logs for usage instructions |
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| 05:34.53 | VK5FOSS | the wiki says "âmake qemuâ will build qemu-neo1973, download the latest official OpenMoko images, flash the images into the virtual NAND flash, create an empty virtual ..." does this mean that it wlil download a freerunner image? |
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| 05:58.45 | VK5FOSS | could someone look at http://paste.debian.net/6428/ ? is this a user error, or a code error? |
| 05:59.54 | icenine | VK5FOSS: user error |
| 05:59.58 | icenine | VK5FOSS: you need zlib |
| 06:00.06 | VK5FOSS | icenine, ta. |
| 06:00.19 | icenine | a dev. version, that is |
| 06:00.20 | icenine | np |
| 06:00.46 | VK5FOSS | i'll try and update the wiki then. |
| 06:04.03 | VK5FOSS | icenine, thanks, its building :) i've updated the wiki with the extra depend too |
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| 06:50.03 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 06:54.01 | mbuf | Hopscotch, morning |
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| 07:09.44 | CIA-44 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r1c8897428296 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] As on ticks request upgrade opkg to 4488 to fix some segfaults |
| 07:09.45 | CIA-44 | openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r5a1bb6698fcd 10/classes/rootfs_ipk.bbclass: rootfs_ipk.bbclass: opkg nowadays needs its lib directory created before it can operate |
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| 07:39.24 | saurabh1403 | hello everyone |
| 07:40.10 | saurabh1403 | i am getting a problem in committing changes to my svn repository |
| 07:40.34 | saurabh1403 | it says " Can't create directory '/svnroot/speech/db/transactions/0-1.txn': Permission denied" |
| 07:41.29 | neldoreth | google is dead? |
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| 07:42.43 | dns53 | yes, i killed it |
| 07:43.06 | saurabh1403 | can someone tell me how to commit changes on svn.openmoko.org/ |
| 07:43.17 | saurabh1403 | i have registered my project |
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| 07:58.25 | lekernel | hi |
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| 08:21.15 | opendeep | saurabh1403:After creating directory in trunk ,you have to give "svn add dir-name" |
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| 08:58.31 | igor321 | mornin' |
| 08:58.32 | igor321 | evening, sorry |
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| 09:05.43 | holycow | hello moko |
| 09:06.06 | CM | morning |
| 09:06.21 | CM | Wow, got classpath-native built for the first time :D |
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| 09:24.33 | CM | but classpath failed as always... |
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| 09:31.18 | saurabh1403 | hello opendeep: sorry i got disconnected |
| 09:31.42 | saurabh1403 | i have checkedout my project repository from svn to my PC |
| 09:32.00 | saurabh1403 | and i added the folders using svn add command also |
| 09:32.22 | saurabh1403 | but while committing, it says error due to permission denied |
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| 09:33.12 | opendeep | saurabh1403:Ok, I had this type of prob once |
| 09:33.55 | saurabh1403 | opendeep: So how did u fix it |
| 09:36.24 | opendeep | where you added the folder |
| 09:37.24 | saurabh1403 | after checking out it created a directory "speech". In speech directory, i added folder "src" and "docs" using the commands svn mkdir <dir-name> |
| 09:37.41 | saurabh1403 | this command adds the folders |
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| 09:38.03 | saurabh1403 | then i used svn commit -m "Initial Release" |
| 09:38.18 | saurabh1403 | and it said |
| 09:38.21 | saurabh1403 | svn: Commit failed (details follow): |
| 09:38.23 | saurabh1403 | svn: Can't create directory '/svnroot/speech/db/transactions/0-1.txn': Permission denied |
| 09:38.32 | opendeep | No it only creates the directory(svn mkdir), You have to svn add "dir-name" |
| 09:39.15 | saurabh1403 | when i use svn add <dir-name> it says that it is already under revision control |
| 09:39.48 | saurabh1403 | it works in the svn repositories which i use in my PC for handling my projects |
| 09:40.57 | opendeep | Sorry to help you, I am using svn from pc only. |
| 09:41.21 | ieatlint | oh man, i need to pee |
| 09:42.06 | saurabh1403 | opendeep: hmmm...did u upload any file on the http://... repository |
| 09:42.30 | opendeep | yes, but from pc only |
| 09:42.40 | saurabh1403 | i am also doing it from my PC |
| 09:42.53 | opendeep | maemo repository |
| 09:43.22 | saurabh1403 | can you please tell me how did u checked out the repositories |
| 09:43.31 | saurabh1403 | *check |
| 09:43.48 | saurabh1403 | did it prompt for a password? |
| 09:44.02 | opendeep | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:44.26 | opendeep | May be some repository's ask pwd? |
| 09:44.36 | saurabh1403 | hmmm....in my case, the commit is failing by checking out using this command |
| 09:45.21 | saurabh1403 | opendeep: Do you have any idea who is the project manager of openmoko projects. I didn't find his mail information on wiki |
| 09:45.39 | saurabh1403 | can someone else help me out in this regard |
| 09:45.42 | saurabh1403 | ? |
| 09:46.54 | opendeep | Have you registered for openmoko mailing lists? |
| 09:47.09 | saurabh1403 | yes, i have |
| 09:49.13 | opendeep | Mickeyl may help you . |
| 09:50.48 | saurabh1403 | opendeep: ok, i will put a mail on the community list also |
| 09:51.36 | saurabh1403 | But is there anyone here who uses the openmoko svn repository for uploading files?.. |
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| 11:00.52 | *** join/#openmoko Infinyte (n=Infinyte@66-146-251-206.gtmc.net) |
| 11:00.56 | Infinyte | Hello! |
| 11:03.46 | ebbe | Hi! |
| 11:04.16 | Infinyte | Haha that's funny. 290 people and only two are active. :3 |
| 11:04.19 | Infinyte | How're you? |
| 11:05.09 | ebbe | Well, the others are just watching. Silently |
| 11:05.16 | ebbe | I'm fine.. |
| 11:05.30 | Infinyte | >_> So many eyes... |
| 11:05.37 | BBishop | is throwing m&m's and trying to catch with his mouth. |
| 11:05.39 | *** part/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@185-28.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 11:05.44 | Infinyte | Haha. |
| 11:06.00 | Infinyte | Aww, I want some M&M's. :< |
| 11:06.15 | ebbe | stuffs m&m's in his nose |
| 11:06.31 | Infinyte | Oww, >_> |
| 11:06.33 | BBishop | well .. you can't have any |
| 11:06.43 | BBishop | but you can watch me and ebbe playing with them :)) |
| 11:06.58 | Infinyte | Oh I see. :< |
| 11:07.12 | ebbe | I can eat them with my nose! o_- |
| 11:07.41 | BBishop | poor nose |
| 11:07.43 | Infinyte | Ooo, that's creepy. |
| 11:08.16 | Infinyte | Haha. |
| 11:08.48 | Infinyte | I love the name the OpenMoko chose for the commercial Neo. |
| 11:09.08 | Infinyte | I always thought Freerunning and OpenSource had similar philosophy's to them. >_> |
| 11:10.17 | BBishop | will the freerunner have a stable end-user software sometime in the future ? |
| 11:10.34 | *** join/#openmoko suuuper (n=suuuper@ppp-225-181.32-151.iol.it) |
| 11:11.01 | ebbe | Depends on how near you wan't the future to be |
| 11:11.10 | Infinyte | Haha, that's a good one. |
| 11:12.11 | BBishop | well .. I guess what I want doesn't matter anyway. |
| 11:12.21 | ebbe | ? |
| 11:12.23 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@85.182.50.173) |
| 11:12.27 | Infinyte | Watcha want? |
| 11:12.37 | BBishop | <ebbe> Depends on how near you wan't the future to be |
| 11:12.51 | BBishop | I guess "wan't" is "want" .. |
| 11:12.59 | ebbe | Yep |
| 11:13.11 | Infinyte | Always. >_> |
| 11:13.21 | BBishop | so .. I said it doesn't matter how near I want the future to be anyway |
| 11:13.29 | BBishop | since I'm not openmoko's CEO or something. |
| 11:13.41 | ebbe | But yes, it will be stable some day.. |
| 11:13.56 | BBishop | for freerunner ? |
| 11:13.59 | ebbe | I think the new framework will do wonders |
| 11:14.02 | ebbe | Yes |
| 11:14.10 | Infinyte | Stability will come with time. I'm hoping it doesn't take long for someone to get Pidgin or libpurple to work on it. >_> |
| 11:14.11 | *** part/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@HSI-KBW-091-089-240-156.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 11:14.37 | ebbe | I've read about someone having pidgin on it, but could be wrong |
| 11:15.09 | Infinyte | Ah, I also remember seeing a video with an example of the digital keyboard, it's like a phone, the 1=ABC and such. I'm hoping there's an alternate that's like a QWERTY too. |
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| 11:15.29 | Infinyte | Might be. |
| 11:15.33 | Infinyte | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoSoftwareStack |
| 11:15.34 | BBishop | I'd love a qwerty |
| 11:15.34 | ebbe | Infinyte: There was, and there will be again |
| 11:15.49 | Infinyte | Oh really? Sweet. :D |
| 11:16.13 | Infinyte | I didn't get the 1973. |
| 11:16.34 | Infinyte | Oh, and I posted the link cause it shows "Pidjin" in the applications thing. |
| 11:16.46 | Infinyte | But I'm assuming that's not the same thing. |
| 11:16.56 | mickeyl | 1973 was the day Martin Cooper talked first w/ a cell phone |
| 11:16.57 | Infinyte | Err wait, ebbe, you were talking about the QWERTY thing right? |
| 11:17.04 | ebbe | Yes |
| 11:17.06 | Infinyte | Kay |
| 11:17.11 | ebbe | :) |
| 11:17.17 | Infinyte | Awesomesauce. |
| 11:17.42 | Infinyte | Now as long as I can instant message via Wifi on it it'll be the most perfect phone evar. xP |
| 11:18.11 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:18.31 | Infinyte | Nice little factbit mickey. |
| 11:18.38 | Infinyte | Thats pretty neat. |
| 11:18.46 | Infinyte | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone |
| 11:18.46 | Infinyte | Hmm. |
| 11:19.23 | Infinyte | Anyone know how the PowerVR MBX graphics chip compares to the SMedia 3362 Graphics Accelerator? O_o |
| 11:19.49 | mickeyl | runs circles around it |
| 11:19.52 | *** join/#openmoko menace (n=knorr@unaffiliated/menace) |
| 11:20.10 | Infinyte | So the iPhones is bettar? |
| 11:20.27 | mbuf | is anyone else having problems with repo access after re-uploading their ssh keys? |
| 11:20.29 | mickeyl | yes, mucho |
| 11:20.42 | Infinyte | Ah. :o |
| 11:21.39 | BBishop | well .. maybe gta03 will have a better graph chipset :D |
| 11:21.52 | ebbe | Infinyte: The Freerunner is far superior when compared to openness and software IMO |
| 11:22.08 | BBishop | superior in software ? |
| 11:22.22 | ebbe | In the future ;) |
| 11:22.31 | BBishop | .. lets hope so .. |
| 11:22.54 | ebbe | But you have so many open source programs and libraries you can use |
| 11:23.24 | Infinyte | Indeed. :D |
| 11:23.54 | BBishop | so does apple .. |
| 11:24.04 | BBishop | it's still *unix |
| 11:24.08 | Infinyte | I was just curious, don't really care that much. >_> |
| 11:24.24 | Infinyte | Yeah, but don't you have to hax it? |
| 11:24.55 | BBishop | don't see why. |
| 11:25.49 | *** join/#openmoko chi-cha-chucky (n=880_liev@brln-4db82082.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 11:25.55 | Infinyte | Well either way, I'd rather not support Apple. >_> |
| 11:26.21 | Kamping_Kaiser | just because something is unixlike doesnt make it free or open |
| 11:27.56 | Infinyte | Like the PS3. :D |
| 11:28.51 | Infinyte | So, no release date for the Freerunner yet.. |
| 11:29.07 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar_ (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 11:29.09 | BBishop | well .. I doubt it'll take more than 1 - 2 months now that smt started |
| 11:29.20 | Infinyte | What's SMT stand for anyways? |
| 11:29.37 | Infinyte | And that's good, I won't have enough money for one until then anyways. Wanna grab one before they all sell out. >_> |
| 11:29.45 | BBishop | sourface mount technologies ? :D |
| 11:30.10 | BBishop | I won't have money anyway... |
| 11:30.12 | Infinyte | Ahh. o.o |
| 11:30.17 | Infinyte | :< |
| 11:30.30 | BBishop | I'll be aout on friedrichshafen at the end of the month |
| 11:30.32 | BBishop | and spend alot :D |
| 11:30.45 | Infinyte | Haha, I see. :p |
| 11:31.29 | Infinyte | Anyone here play Eve? xP |
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| 12:54.20 | mbuf | if i would like to start with a minimialistc (boot to console) openmoko package list, what are the necessary packages? which files need to be modified in openmoko build environment for this before building the images? |
| 12:55.23 | BBishop | when I'll get the freerunner .. boy oh boy I'll toy around it for months :D |
| 12:56.04 | XorA|gone | mbuf: bitbake console-image |
| 12:56.09 | ebbe | I'm already having great fun with my gta01 :) |
| 12:56.17 | mbuf | XorA|gone, ok |
| 12:56.26 | *** join/#openmoko afents (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 12:56.30 | mbuf | didn't know there already exists one |
| 12:56.45 | CM | ebbe: What image are you using? |
| 12:57.09 | ebbe | Just an old one. Why? |
| 12:57.19 | CM | Just curious |
| 12:57.20 | ebbe | Not ASU |
| 12:57.29 | BBishop | hmm .. I think I could use my 2 x (2xquad core;8g ram;4TB dedicated raid50) boxes to help compiling stuff :D |
| 12:57.30 | CM | Haven't been able to call with the later versions |
| 12:58.42 | ebbe | CM: Well, I'm not using as a phone.. |
| 12:58.42 | CM | Hehe, ok :-) |
| 12:59.15 | XorA|gone | mbuf: I think there is even minimal-image, but that doesnt contain opkg so you cant upgrade it |
| 12:59.52 | XorA|gone | BBishop: doesnt help with qtopia :-( |
| 12:59.55 | mbuf | XorA|gone, i am looking for a barebones image, where i can add only packages that i want, and still use the build environment |
| 13:00.05 | XorA|gone | mbuf: that would be console-image |
| 13:00.07 | mbuf | XorA|gone, will need opkg |
| 13:00.28 | BBishop | XorA|gone, why not ? |
| 13:00.39 | XorA|gone | BBishop: it forces single threaded compiles :-( |
| 13:00.41 | BBishop | gentoo can share compiling loads... |
| 13:00.53 | BBishop | ow .. like the gcc :| |
| 13:01.22 | BBishop | damn I hate it .. I compiled the whole gentoo in 2 hours but gcc itself took 30 minutes or so. |
| 13:01.25 | XorA|gone | BBishop: for 8 cores you probably want BB_NUMBER_THREADS = "4" PARALLEL_MAKE = "-j 8" |
| 13:02.03 | BBishop | will see when I get it ... |
| 13:03.43 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADA73C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 13:18.25 | tomboy64 | is there a pre-compiled *working* ASU for qemu? |
| 13:18.35 | tomboy64 | ok - not working, booting ;) |
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| 13:23.03 | balrog-kun | tomboy64: dunno, the latest gta01 images are E (or qtopia, not sure) based and they boot |
| 13:23.08 | balrog-kun | does that mean they're ASU? |
| 13:23.37 | tomboy64 | no idea ;) |
| 13:39.27 | *** join/#openmoko enjahova_ (n=enjahova@c-68-42-63-191.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 13:39.53 | mbuf | quick question, is there a pdf viewer/reader on the openmoko? |
| 13:45.23 | mjr | I don't think there was one by default |
| 13:45.49 | mjr | 'course, you can install one easy enough, but will need a somewhat ui-adapted version to be handy |
| 13:46.20 | mjr | well, handier, anyway |
| 13:46.25 | mbuf | mjr, i see |
| 13:46.51 | mbuf | mjr, if we can use it in landscape mode, that is good enough; just to read manuals |
| 13:47.09 | mjr | I did run as proof-of-concept a reader over X once and it was usable, but the ui can be made to suit the device better anyway |
| 13:47.17 | mbuf | ok |
| 13:47.42 | mjr | landscape works since ages, so that's not a problem |
| 13:50.41 | mjr | I think there should be a pdf reader package in the repos prebuilt and all even, but I'm not certain and not handy enough for me to check right now |
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| 14:26.44 | Sturmeh | yo |
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| 14:37.06 | Sturmeh | no1 hear? |
| 14:37.49 | ebbe | Oh yeah |
| 14:40.21 | CVirus | me |
| 14:40.47 | ebbe | And 290 others.. |
| 14:45.01 | patoh | lots of people here, no one talking |
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| 14:48.13 | abraxa_ | What do you prefer? Everyone talking, no one working or everyone working, no one talking? :) |
| 14:48.24 | fifafrazer | I'm not working |
| 14:48.54 | abraxa_ | Okay, you're excluded from "everyone" ;) |
| 14:53.11 | Sturmeh | working on what :\ |
| 14:53.55 | patoh | I am not working |
| 14:54.07 | Sturmeh | what aren't u working on? |
| 14:54.09 | patoh | irc is about idling |
| 14:54.12 | Sturmeh | u talking about work? |
| 14:54.14 | Sturmeh | like job |
| 14:54.15 | Sturmeh | work? |
| 14:54.21 | patoh | school work, ui interface design mockups |
| 14:54.26 | Sturmeh | ahk |
| 14:54.26 | patoh | I really should get back to both of those |
| 14:54.34 | patoh | and back to this silly pdf reader |
| 14:54.39 | Sturmeh | lol i wish freerunner had some 3g support |
| 14:54.40 | Sturmeh | ;( |
| 14:54.49 | patoh | wait a year or two and it might |
| 14:54.59 | Sturmeh | it won't be the freerunner |
| 14:55.00 | patoh | GSM has been around a while and its not going anywhere |
| 14:55.04 | Sturmeh | and 5G will be out by then |
| 14:55.06 | mjr | closer to two, probably... |
| 14:55.07 | patoh | nope, nor the version or two after then |
| 14:55.21 | patoh | 3G is new technology still |
| 14:55.25 | Sturmeh | yea |
| 14:55.35 | Sturmeh | but u aim to compete with the iphone no? |
| 14:55.39 | Sturmeh | u already win with openness |
| 14:55.49 | mjr | now two versions after isn't given |
| 14:55.50 | patoh | wireless N has been out for over two years now (draft spec anyway), and very very few people are using it |
| 14:56.00 | patoh | yet people are talking about wwan and wimax |
| 14:56.05 | mjr | the iphone is irrelevant |
| 14:56.07 | Sturmeh | that's because it's not pracital |
| 14:56.11 | patoh | what mjr said |
| 14:56.15 | Sturmeh | why? |
| 14:56.21 | *** join/#openmoko emilis_info (n=emilis@clt-84-32-58-67.vdnet.lt) |
| 14:56.23 | patoh | nor is 3G in my area, I can't get good coverage if I go out of a city |
| 14:56.31 | patoh | which sucks, GSM i can get close to everywhere |
| 14:56.34 | mjr | completely different target market |
| 14:56.39 | Sturmeh | yea but |
| 14:56.48 | patoh | that is like comparing the N810 with the iPhone |
| 14:56.53 | mjr | patoh, you are aware that umts phones do gsm too, yes? |
| 14:56.55 | patoh | well not to crazy :P |
| 14:57.07 | patoh | mjr: yeah, but our providers tend to fuck that up in australia |
| 14:57.16 | Sturmeh | I want an openmoko, i'd love one but in reality, the iphone is cheaper and easier to get a hold of |
| 14:57.27 | Sturmeh | i don't really care about 3g, my friend does |
| 14:57.28 | Sturmeh | lol |
| 14:57.29 | mjr | in reality, not cheaper |
| 14:57.32 | emilis_info | yes, but does it run linux? |
| 14:57.33 | emilis_info | ;) |
| 14:57.33 | Sturmeh | well |
| 14:57.37 | patoh | its not cheaper if you go with the AT&T contract |
| 14:57.39 | Sturmeh | depends how u get it mjr |
| 14:57.42 | Sturmeh | Australia here |
| 14:57.47 | Sturmeh | no 2.5g, just 3g |
| 14:58.19 | Sturmeh | iphone will be sold literally outright for $150 the AT&T prices |
| 14:58.35 | patoh | yay, with Telstra (shit service, great coverage), 3 (Shit service and coverage) or Vodafone (_ok_ service and very shit coverage) |
| 14:58.46 | mjr | rather it will be leased out for $150 up front |
| 14:58.55 | Sturmeh | no telstra |
| 14:59.02 | Sturmeh | optus |
| 14:59.07 | Sturmeh | i'm already with em |
| 14:59.12 | patoh | shit service and coverage with 3G I hear |
| 14:59.17 | Sturmeh | and it's just optus and vodaphone |
| 14:59.20 | Sturmeh | idc |
| 14:59.38 | patoh | that is the problem with the iphone, you have the choice of two carriers if you want to play by apples rules |
| 14:59.48 | zedstar | see long going thread about iphone vs freerunner price (warning u may loose will to live) |
| 14:59.48 | mjr | beats my why people say "ooh, I bought the iphone for $200" but never "ooh, I bought a Lexus for $1000" when they're up to their necks in future payment obligations |
| 14:59.50 | patoh | guess its an upgrade from one with the first iphone in the us |
| 15:00.09 | patoh | zedstar: its outlined in the third post, yet it keeps going |
| 15:00.32 | patoh | I think I read the same facts every second email, and FUD in every single one |
| 15:00.37 | patoh | ok, close to every single one |
| 15:00.45 | Sturmeh | ok, ignoring prices |
| 15:01.02 | Sturmeh | is the freerunner really consumer friendly? |
| 15:01.05 | mjr | no |
| 15:01.07 | patoh | nope |
| 15:01.10 | Sturmeh | ( will it ) |
| 15:01.11 | CVirus | no |
| 15:01.14 | Sturmeh | ok |
| 15:01.19 | mjr | will it, hopefully |
| 15:01.30 | mjr | hard to say definitively |
| 15:01.31 | CVirus | I'm willing to pay 400$ for a broken phone |
| 15:01.35 | Sturmeh | lol |
| 15:01.44 | CVirus | Sturmeh: you mind ? |
| 15:01.45 | *** join/#openmoko cworth (n=nnnnnnnn@c-71-193-239-10.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 15:01.47 | CVirus | lol |
| 15:01.54 | patoh | if you find a bug fix it, no longer broken :P |
| 15:01.55 | Sturmeh | one day i won't |
| 15:02.04 | CVirus | 99% of the people around here are willing to pay 400$ for a broken phone |
| 15:02.07 | Sturmeh | but for now i'm not floating in money or programming experience |
| 15:02.11 | mwester | Ultimately, the freerunner (or successor) will be very user-freindly; as there should be a firmware to fit every user's need. |
| 15:02.21 | Sturmeh | ah |
| 15:02.22 | Sturmeh | also |
| 15:02.25 | mwester | Right now it's still a developer's phone. |
| 15:02.26 | mjr | mwester, that's if all goes well, yes |
| 15:02.30 | patoh | mwester: flashing firmware isn't user friendly :P |
| 15:02.33 | CVirus | firmware to fit every user's need ? |
| 15:02.34 | CVirus | haha |
| 15:02.35 | Sturmeh | how many of u want to see a primarly touch only interface? |
| 15:02.37 | mwester | Gotta have a goal, mjr. |
| 15:02.44 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r209314cbaa75 10/odeviced/modules/input.py: |
| 15:02.44 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: python-odeviced: add first version if input module |
| 15:02.44 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: This module gives dbus signals for certain key presses. Use this for tracking |
| 15:02.44 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: things like headphone insertion, charger insertion, AUX key held for n seconds, ... |
| 15:02.45 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r564b8362dde6 10/odeviced/modules/kernel26.py: Merge branch 'master' of git@git.freesmartphone.org:python-odeviced |
| 15:03.03 | CVirus | Sturmeh: it's a touch only interface |
| 15:03.06 | mwester | patoh: User's wouldn't have to. They would get it pre-loaded and flashed by their supplier, whomever that would be. |
| 15:03.16 | Sturmeh | so they moved away from the stylus dependancies? |
| 15:03.32 | CVirus | stylus is still touch interface as far as I know |
| 15:03.33 | mwester | stylus is compatible with touchscreen. |
| 15:03.41 | Sturmeh | lol CVirus not what i meant |
| 15:03.43 | mjr | well let's just say that there should be "software" to fit every user's need |
| 15:03.44 | Sturmeh | finger touch |
| 15:03.46 | patoh | finger and stylus produce the same output =/ |
| 15:03.50 | patoh | well input sorry |
| 15:03.56 | mwester | There's nothing preventing someone from having both -- consider the n800 |
| 15:04.00 | Sturmeh | larger buttons are necessary for finger only |
| 15:04.10 | CVirus | hence larger screen |
| 15:04.20 | Sturmeh | but a querty keyboard is quite impossible to get ur fingers on |
| 15:04.30 | Sturmeh | qwerty |
| 15:04.33 | BBishop | iphone can do it... |
| 15:04.37 | CVirus | Sturmeh: it's not qwerty |
| 15:04.44 | Sturmeh | abcdefg? |
| 15:04.44 | Sturmeh | :D |
| 15:04.45 | patoh | I hate onscreen keyboards I have to say :( |
| 15:04.51 | Sturmeh | yes i do |
| 15:04.54 | mwester | use bluetooth. |
| 15:04.57 | Sturmeh | meh |
| 15:04.57 | CVirus | Sturmeh: http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/finger-keyboard/ |
| 15:04.58 | Sturmeh | power |
| 15:05.00 | zedstar | i have an iphone and the onscreen typing sux |
| 15:05.05 | patoh | hard when typing text messages and walking |
| 15:05.11 | Sturmeh | zedstar try the psp |
| 15:05.18 | CVirus | brb .. smoke |
| 15:05.18 | BBishop | I like it. |
| 15:05.42 | Sturmeh | hmm i gtg |
| 15:05.44 | Sturmeh | tv shows on |
| 15:05.47 | zedstar | i much prefer my n810 qwerty over the on screen |
| 15:05.49 | Sturmeh | nice talkin to ya guys |
| 15:06.05 | Sturmeh | leaves. |
| 15:06.22 | BBishop | too bulky |
| 15:06.35 | BBishop | sets his rsyslog to use mysql. |
| 15:07.28 | zedstar | i couldnt imagine IRCing from the iphone where as it is pretty usable xchat on the n810 |
| 15:07.52 | BBishop | sticks to his blackberry |
| 15:08.53 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net) |
| 15:08.54 | mickeyl | ya, hardware keyboards are still unbeaten |
| 15:09.03 | mjr | pats his freedom mini |
| 15:09.26 | mjr | okay for ircing, if om'd have a decent terminal (well, I could install one...) |
| 15:09.34 | mjr | (will asu?) |
| 15:11.28 | BBishop | could om be used for something like .. a webserver ? ( apache + php + mysql ) ? :D |
| 15:11.41 | ebbe | BBishop: Of course :) |
| 15:12.27 | BBishop | woooorrrddddd |
| 15:12.29 | zedstar | lighttpd might be a better choice over apache tho |
| 15:12.39 | ebbe | I think so too |
| 15:13.20 | ebbe | And maybe change mysql with something else |
| 15:13.33 | *** join/#openmoko MannyTheMolecule (n=manny@77.209.153.23) |
| 15:13.58 | BBishop | well .. I like mysql and apache .. I've been using them since like .. forever .. |
| 15:14.25 | mjr | as long as your webapps work in 128 megs of ram... |
| 15:14.32 | SpeedEvil | Plus swap. |
| 15:15.13 | BBishop | they work on a p3 @ 500 Mhz with 128 ram .. |
| 15:15.17 | *** join/#openmoko yano (n=rried@p57AFA48B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:15.24 | BBishop | so I don't see why openmoko's specs wouldn't be ok.. |
| 15:16.01 | SpeedEvil | 400MHz arm is perhaps 1/2 the speed. |
| 15:16.05 | SpeedEvil | optimistically. |
| 15:16.09 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak (n=stefreak@frnk-4d01c1b9.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 15:16.11 | SpeedEvil | 1/3 to 1/2 |
| 15:16.26 | SpeedEvil | Also - battery life is CPU. |
| 15:17.06 | SpeedEvil | If you app is nice and fast and responsive, and uses 80% CPU, compared to one that uses 20% CPU, it will run for maybe half the time. |
| 15:18.36 | BBishop | well .. the moko will stay on the power outlet 24/7 .. |
| 15:18.55 | BBishop | and the proc is never going over 10% anyway .. |
| 15:19.04 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - just saying. |
| 15:19.06 | zedstar | i would still love to see some papers of battery life performance of apps written in say python compared to C doing intensive tasks |
| 15:19.27 | SpeedEvil | language is quite irrelevant. |
| 15:19.41 | SpeedEvil | All that is important is CPU utilisation fraction. |
| 15:19.48 | SpeedEvil | To a first order anyway. |
| 15:20.09 | SpeedEvil | Cache footprints and RAM bandwidth and stuff get to be important at second order. |
| 15:20.30 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 15:21.33 | Tronic | Python (on PC, without Psyco) uses 20 times as much CPU, so it probably shows up in the utilization fraction too, when the CPU is rather slow to start with. |
| 15:22.20 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (n=fsteinel@pD9FBC01D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:22.30 | zedstar | a paper showing whether or not language is relevant for battery life basically |
| 15:22.51 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r4b87764960ed 10/odeviced/ (modules/input.py odeviced): python-odeviced: hardcode AUX and POWER button for Milestone 1. Read from configuration afterwards |
| 15:24.08 | mwester | zedstar: that's rather like a paper showing whether the color of shirt one wears is relevent for one's lifespan. |
| 15:24.21 | Tronic | However, one cannot notice the difference in high level control code that executes something in the order of 100 instructions per second. |
| 15:24.34 | zedstar | yeh i know it is impossible to do anything apples vs apples |
| 15:26.23 | Tronic | With Python it would execute perhaps 2000 instructions per second, but that is still *nothing* even for the slowest microcontrollers that you can buy. |
| 15:27.55 | Tronic | On the other hand, if the C++ code is already going to occupy the CPU 100 % all the time, the Python code is not going to drain the battery more than that. |
| 15:28.10 | Tronic | Instead, the software just runs at 1/20 of the speed that it would with C++. |
| 15:28.56 | LetoTo | speed and battery life are not a closed system like that |
| 15:29.17 | LetoTo | if you run faster, the cpu might spend more time in idle, saving battery power |
| 15:29.24 | LetoTo | or it might not :P |
| 15:29.53 | *** join/#openmoko lrg_ (n=liam@79-68-78-64.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 15:29.54 | LetoTo | but one instruction does not equate to a fixed percentage of battery life |
| 15:31.56 | *** part/#openmoko yano (n=rried@p57AFA48B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:33.05 | SpeedEvil | It's a reasonable estimate though - assuming a 'normal' instruction mix. |
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| 15:33.50 | SpeedEvil | Especially as the OM CPU only has one execution unit. |
| 15:33.58 | zedstar | u often hear things like "javascript drains battery" but ive never seen any comparison studies to equate any of these statements |
| 15:34.16 | SpeedEvil | As to energy efficiency - fastest processing is always the most efficient. |
| 15:34.25 | Tronic | zedstar: It is close to impossible to do any scientific study on that. |
| 15:34.25 | mjr | well, compared to not having any scripting in web pages... |
| 15:34.32 | Tronic | zedstar: What are you going to replace the JS with? |
| 15:34.50 | SpeedEvil | I mean you always save battery doing 1s of computation rather than slowing CPU to 50% and taking 2s. |
| 15:35.00 | zedstar | sure...the javascript is a bad example in that case if there is not an alternative |
| 15:35.12 | SpeedEvil | Active-X. |
| 15:35.16 | SpeedEvil | +qemu |
| 15:35.18 | SpeedEvil | :) |
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| 15:35.29 | mjr | yeeaah |
| 15:35.54 | mjr | I'll go out on a limb here and just flat out claim that activex through qemu would suck more power |
| 15:38.13 | Bish | i wil lrun vista on reerunner |
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| 15:53.25 | zedstar_ | ok what does brut mean on a bottle of french cider? |
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| 15:56.00 | abraxa_ | zedstar_: dry |
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| 15:56.14 | zedstar_ | ah thanks that makes sense now |
| 15:57.00 | zedstar_ | have a french market here this weekend and i bought some cider which i thought i got 2 dry and one sweet bottle...which is right then |
| 15:57.12 | zedstar_ | babelfish said "gross" ;) |
| 15:57.38 | jonkristian | ouch |
| 15:59.09 | abraxa_ | rorlf |
| 15:59.11 | abraxa_ | rofl* |
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| 16:06.13 | HauDyr | how does OpenMoko use the sim-card? what do you do with the pin-code and the like? |
| 16:10.18 | Sup3rkiddo | HauDyr, you could take a look at libgsmd, gsmd2 or python-ophoned, the last two can be found in git.freesmartphone.org..libgsmd is there in OM repos |
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| 16:28.06 | dcordes | must not the calypso handle SIM communication? |
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| 16:28.23 | CVirus | http://www.bbspot.com/News/2000/9/linux_laid.html |
| 16:28.26 | dcordes | I doubt fcc would like you see poking around with it directly |
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| 16:30.29 | toti | Hey, is there any documentation about how to work with accelerometers like these in GTAO2? |
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| 16:33.54 | SpeedEvil | Radio 4 - CEO of BT interviewed. |
| 16:34.16 | SpeedEvil | toti: do you mean in general? |
| 16:34.24 | SpeedEvil | As in 'what is an accelerometer?' |
| 16:35.06 | *** part/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@bofh.xelerance.com) |
| 16:35.43 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r31d474a7bd1b 10/ (AUTHORS src/zhone): zhone: add idle handling |
| 16:37.08 | zedstar_ | speedevil they ask him about his million pound salary? |
| 16:38.01 | K114 | When it will be possible to buy Neo FreeRunner? |
| 16:38.20 | CVirus | not before 1 month .. I guess |
| 16:39.52 | SpeedEvil | Zero_Dogg: no |
| 16:39.55 | SpeedEvil | zed: |
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| 16:53.42 | dcordes | mickey_away: do you have a video of fso? |
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| 17:24.26 | toti | I wanna right a program in Java which analyses the movements of the cellphone by using it's accelerometers |
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| 17:47.34 | ljp | toti: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-March/001625.html |
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| 18:12.33 | dcordes | mickey_away: ping |
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| 18:16.18 | toti | thx, that looks useful |
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| 18:16.54 | dcordes | cacn somebnody help me openning a connection to a character device using cu? |
| 18:17.35 | balrog-kun | try -l (or whatever switch was used to disable locking) |
| 18:17.41 | dcordes | I do cu -l <dev> but that doesn't work. It says it can't access /var/lock/blabalbla |
| 18:18.17 | balrog-kun | oh right, -l was for the device path so locking must have been something else |
| 18:18.24 | dcordes | I see |
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| 18:18.57 | dcordes | balrog-kun: can't find that switch |
| 18:19.44 | balrog-kun | dcordes: hmmm |
| 18:19.45 | dcordes | balrog-kun: there is nothing about lock in the man |
| 18:19.49 | balrog-kun | the second thing i try is chmod 0777 <dev> and then cu |
| 18:21.01 | dcordes | still get cu: creat (/var/lock/TMP0000000000000000000101e): Permission denied |
| 18:21.12 | dcordes | cu: <dev>: Line in use |
| 18:22.40 | balrog-kun | the problem with cu is that it changes its uid to "nobody" or "cu" or something similar |
| 18:22.42 | *** join/#openmoko bkrus1 (n=bkruse@69.73.127.92) |
| 18:22.58 | dcordes | I could swear it worked before with a similar setup |
| 18:23.04 | balrog-kun | there was some way to use screen instead of cu to talk to serials, which worked much better |
| 18:23.35 | balrog-kun | make sure that nothing is accessing <dev> btw |
| 18:23.40 | dcordes | somebody suggested that but I have no clue how I'd do that |
| 18:23.48 | dcordes | balrog-kun: how? |
| 18:25.12 | dcordes | (to make sure nothing accesses it) |
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| 18:26.24 | balrog-kun | hmm "screen <dev>" is supposed to work |
| 18:26.49 | balrog-kun | dcordes: lsof or just "killall gsmd" if it's a rootfs that uses gsmd |
| 18:27.03 | dcordes | no gsmd |
| 18:27.09 | dcordes | ok screen works thanks |
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| 18:46.45 | dcordes | balrog-kun: how would I write stuff to the <dev> in screen? |
| 18:46.51 | dcordes | I can only see what it has to tell me |
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| 18:53.04 | jadams | so does ASU run comfortably on Neo yet? |
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| 18:55.32 | balrog-kun | dcordes: dunno, sorry |
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| 18:57.16 | dcordes | somebody? |
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| 19:56.30 | jOERG | dcordes: e ECHO. Local echo is disabled. see manpage |
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| 21:40.34 | Infinyte | Hai Mokopeople. :D |
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| 23:31.18 | lu_zero | hi |
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| 23:37.11 | abraxa__ | heya lu_zero |
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