IRC log for #openmoko on 20080610

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02:03.13wurp2|awayDoes anyone know of a way to get gsmd back working again so one can make/receive calls after one e.g. starts & ends gprs?
02:03.21wurp2|awayon the 2007.2 release, I mean
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02:13.13CIA-44openmoko: 03tony_tu * r4482 10/developers/tony_tu/ (. readme.txt): add tony_tu's folder for miscellaneous.
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02:28.27Arg0nautsmt is running!
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02:30.01wurp2|awaywtf is smt? ;-)
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02:31.50rastersurface mount technology
02:33.56Arg0nautessentially the circuits are being mass produced for the gta02 now
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02:44.48wurp2|awayI thought that had been going on...
02:44.59wurp2|awaysteve said they were clear to mass produce
02:45.22wurp2|awayand before that I thought they'd said the only hold-up was getting the OK to mass produce from the factory
02:49.25rasterthey apparently are doing... stuff over at the factory
02:53.40mwesterraster: re: your email about the dbus stuff -- basically the build I'm doing now will be broken too?  :(
02:54.04rasterdunno
02:54.07rasterit used to work
02:54.33rastermaybe because in my tree i always had edbus built
02:54.38mwesterYeah, I know. :(  It was looking pretty good for a bit, then WHAM everything fell apart on the ASU dev images.
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02:55.19rasterthe only problem is e missing a edbus depends - that's about it
02:55.26rasterwell ok
02:55.34rasterillume could bitch and fail to build if edbus wansnt there
02:55.42rasterbut e would need it enabled too anyway
02:55.49rasterprior to illume building
02:56.04mwesterhehe! I guess a little pain is expected on the dev images, but the stable ASU is broken in a similar fashion.  I dunno how to fix the dependency; I could play with it but I expect zecke could fix it in a heartbeat so I'll just be patient.
02:57.09rastermwester:  easy
02:57.15rasterfind the e-wm_cvs.bb
02:57.23mwesterok
02:57.25raster(in packages/e17 in openembedded)
02:57.30rasterand see the DEPENDs line
02:57.32raster...
02:57.34rasteradd edbus
02:57.35raster:)
02:57.36rasterdone
02:57.41rasterits that simple
02:58.37mwester:) Yep, that is rather simple.  It sounded a bit less well-defined earlier.
02:58.42mwestergoes to edit a bb file.
03:04.00CIA-44openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rb3eaf28f71a7 10/packages/efl1/evas_cvs.bb: fix evas build to disable threads, and clean up formatting
03:04.00CIA-44openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r068dfb2d2063 10/ (7 files in 7 dirs): Merge branch 'org.openmoko.asu.dev' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/openmoko into org.openmoko.asu.dev
03:04.43wurp2|awaySo, is the way to build ASU documented on the wiki?
03:04.54wurp2|awaybarring this little manual change that you just made?
03:05.12wurp2|awayand any other potential changes you have to make to fix a b0rken build? :-)
03:05.23mwesterDon't think so.  Documentation is the magic makfile itself.
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03:05.42wurp2|awayBut I dunno even where to get the magic makefile
03:06.18wurp2|awayAnd is the magic makefile self-contained?  Do I need to dl stuff first, or get from other repositories & run their magic makefiles first?
03:06.23mwesterIt's the standard moko makefile
03:06.28wurp2|awaymwester: O
03:06.52wurp2|awayIs there a setting I need to manually change to start building ASU?
03:06.58wurp2|awaye.g. wherever 2007.2 was before?
03:06.58mwesterjust edit the line that says: OM_GIT_BRANCH := org.openmoko.dev
03:07.32mwesterAnd point it to your favorite ASU branch (dev or stable)
03:07.52wurp2|awayOK, and is the magic token for the ASU branches visible somewhere?
03:08.37mwesterYeah, with the right git commands you can see the entire branch structure.  But its easier to read the CIA-44 commit messages to see the branch name.   ^^^^
03:08.49wurp2|awayOK, cool
03:08.51wurp2|awaythanks!
03:09.11wurp2|awayI see now
03:09.19freelockHow is the ASU these days, anyway? Stable enough to use yet?
03:09.28rastersmelly
03:09.37mwesterOh - and you'll want to make openmoko-qtopia-x11-image , not the old openmoko-devel-image
03:09.46wurp2|awayOK
03:09.54wurp2|awayDocumenting on mokomakefile page on the wiki :-)
03:10.02mwesterfreelock:  It's having growing pains right this moment, but when it works it looks cool.
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03:10.36freelockI definitely like the videos... is it working on the GTA01?
03:11.39mwesternot really.
03:11.49mwesteryet.
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03:12.53rastergrumbles about dbus
03:14.17wurp2|awayraster: Disliking dbus in general, or just having trouble at the moment?
03:14.24mwesterwonders why, since dbus will solve all our problems, including world hunger!
03:14.48wurp2|awaydbus does look like a mighty fine idea to me...
03:14.59rasterwurp2|away:  just the nasty marshalling/unmashalling of data structs/variables in and out of dbus messages
03:15.08wurp2|awayah
03:15.12rasterand all the unmashalling/callback/free callback handling
03:15.13rasteretc.
03:15.13wurp2|awayI have only been using dbus from python
03:15.21wurp2|awayand afaict it does all that stuff for me :-)
03:15.41wurp2|awayI know from old CORBA days that that can be major yuck in C/C++
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03:15.50raster'tis
03:16.02rasteri much prefere my own ecore_ipc+eet
03:16.06rasterso much nicer
03:16.08mwesteris just generally a little suspicious, back from the really early days (Sun's tooltalk)...
03:16.11rasterwell for c/c++
03:16.27rasteras u define a data descriptor once
03:16.32raster(whihc is dead-trivial)
03:16.52rasterand now the code can marshal/unmarshall to/from entire trees of data structs for you
03:17.01Sonicadvance1Quick question that I thought would be interesting. Would it be possible to mount an iPod's filesystem via USB on the openmoko?
03:17.13rasterso encode and decode are single function calls
03:17.27rasterthat take a native data struct pointer
03:17.32rasteror rturn one - all allocated for you
03:17.42mwesterSonicadvance1:  If you have the right cable, and it's formatted for Windows -- yes.
03:17.56wurp2|awayraster: Couldn't you do the same thing for dbus?
03:17.59mwesterDunno about the iPod if it's formatted for a mac
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03:18.28rasterwurp2|away: it'd be harder and yet more work
03:18.34wurp2|awaysure
03:18.35Sonicadvance1mwester, awesome. Then my second question of the two part question. Is it relatively easy to port parts of gstreamer to the OpenMoko? :D
03:18.43wurp2|awayand I'm not suggesting you do it right now...
03:18.50mwesterIsn't that already done, Sonicadvance1?
03:18.54wurp2|awaybut it would be work that you do once, rather than every time you code more dbus shtuff
03:18.55Sonicadvance1Is it?
03:19.12mwesterI thought so.  Or maybe it's just in OE.
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03:19.43rasterwurp2|away: not sure it's so easy.
03:19.56wurp2|awayraster: Me neither :-)
03:20.00Sonicadvance1I was just thinking it would be neat to port gtkpod to OpenMoko, so I could manage my iPods music and play music via gtkpod =o
03:20.20wurp2|awayraster: But it seems that if python can make it that easy, it must be possible in C too
03:20.49rasterits possible
03:20.50rasterbut not too nice or easy
03:20.50rasterand that means spending a chunk of time on it
03:20.52rasterand not the thing i want to do
03:20.53wurp2|awayonly for the guy doing the grunt work
03:21.01wurp2|awayfor everyone else, it then becomes dead easy
03:21.04rasteryes
03:21.06rasterand that guy is me
03:21.10wurp2|awayYeah, again, just talking around it
03:21.16rasterdont care abotu the everyone else bit right now
03:21.18wurp2|awayIt's not like I'm gonna go do it :-)
03:21.19raster:)
03:21.37rasterjust grumbling that i can't use an existing solution.
03:21.42rasteri already have
03:21.55wurp2|awayUsually, to me, coding stuff like that is 10x as much fun as coding the cookie cutter (un)marshall code
03:23.00rasternot when u have a "deadline"
03:23.06wurp2|awayvery true
03:23.11rasterof like "really fucking soon"
03:23.19rasteru dont have time to do all the infra stuff
03:23.25rasterand just dont give a crap about infra stuff
03:23.28wurp2|awayI thought every company used that rubber stamp for all deadlines
03:23.57wurp2|awayWhen do you want it done is a redundant questoin
03:24.03rasterhehehe
03:24.06wurp2|awayIt's either "really fucking soon"
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03:24.45wurp2|awayAny other answer means "we don't really know what we want, and it'll change before we get close to wanting it, so why don't you sit on your thumb for four weeks?"
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03:27.29mwesterwurp2|away:  That's how you differentiate between the real companies to work for/with, and the ones that you want to stay away from.  :)
03:27.48wurp2|awaymwester: It depends on whether you're in the mood for a paid vacation or not
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03:29.24mwesterin general, I don't find that to be the case.  If a good engineer finds themselves sitting on their butt for more than a few days because of project management issues, they should use that time to find the next job cause that one is doomed.
03:29.24rastertrue
03:29.59wurp2|awayI sat on my butt for months at one location, as a 1099 contractor no less
03:30.12wurp2|awayThey always thought they had stuff for me to do, but it was obviously makework so I didn't do it
03:30.22wurp2|awayNo one every noticed
03:30.25mwesterBet that company didn't go anywhere in the space they were trying to compete.
03:30.40wurp2|awayFinally I went so crazy with it that I gave 2 weeks notice with nowhere to go
03:30.45wurp2|awayand spent 6 weeks out of work
03:30.51wurp2|awayOh yeah, the company died
03:32.11rasterhehehe
03:32.14rasternot surprising
03:32.16rasterseen it before
03:32.18rastermany times
03:32.20rasterstill see it
03:32.27rasteralmsot no one
03:32.34raster1. knows exactly what they want
03:32.41raster2. knows exactly how to get there
03:32.52raster3. has tne focus to sit down and DO IT
03:33.21rasteri'm amazed most people/companies don't die from forgetting to breathe thanks to their own stupidity
03:33.22wurp2|awayon that topic...
03:33.50wurp2|awayhas anyone considered writing up expected functionality from the ASU apps (or even a list of the ASU apps), and/or mock-ups?
03:34.01mwesteradds that often those companies need only ask the engineers sitting on their butts, who probably have a better idea than the execs. For a case study, just find an engineer at Motorola, if there are any left anymore.
03:34.24wurp2|awayraster: I've had really good luck with (I know, even the word makes a lot of people twitch...) Agile
03:35.00mwesterwurp2|away:  OMG!  ACK!  Gasp!  Are you -- could you? -- are you proposing... SPECS! :o :o
03:35.03rastermwester: hehehehe
03:35.39wurp2|awaywell, the highest level of specs
03:35.51wurp2|awaywhat should it let the users do, in english, and what should it look like
03:35.56wurp2|awayyeah, I am
03:36.01wurp2|awayI'm guessing they're not there...
03:36.05rasterwurp2|away: i prefer actual communication
03:36.10rasterlike peolpe talking and discussing
03:36.11wurp2|awayraster: Oh, me too
03:36.12rasterand agreeing
03:36.30wurp2|awaybut... having a simple mock up, and notes that come from those meetings are good
03:36.34rasterand then getting shit done (tm)
03:36.44rasteryeah
03:36.48rasterthats always good
03:36.53wurp2|awayand having just the list is much better than not having the list or communication
03:37.02wurp2|awayI'm not proposing rational rose
03:37.03rasterbut u need the meetign in the first place
03:37.13rasternot just the stone tablets handed down from god
03:37.14raster:)
03:37.17wurp2|awayI'm proposing pencil, paper, and digital camera
03:37.21wurp2|awayoh, I agre
03:37.22wurp2|awaye
03:37.48rasterlike "heres an idea we have - is this doable? can we recycle other things? can we improve it?"
03:37.49rasteretc.
03:37.54rasterand then a bit of... conversation
03:38.00rasterthen an agreement
03:38.06rasterboth sides now know whats up
03:38.07rasterand agree
03:38.09rasterthen do it
03:38.12wurp2|awayyep
03:38.13rasterand dont change the god damn spec
03:38.21raster(ie change what was agreed on)
03:38.29rasterunless u run into unexpected issues that require it
03:38.39rastersimple.
03:38.41rasterworks
03:38.46rastergets shit done
03:39.17wurp2|awayis OM centrally enough located to have such meetings?
03:39.26wurp2|awayIn person is much better than phone
03:40.24rasternup
03:40.27rasterits distributed
03:41.14wurp2|awaydistributed is great most of the time
03:41.18wurp2|awayand sucks 10% of the time
03:43.01rasterthats when you need to use tools
03:43.02rasterlike irc
03:43.04rasteremail
03:43.11rasterskype/voip/video conf
03:43.17rasterand shared whiteboard things
03:43.19rasterspeaking of those
03:43.28rasterhas anyone ever gotten inkscapes shared wb to work?
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04:34.47wurp2|awayIs there someplace I can get the old openmoko-keyboard?
04:34.53wurp2|awayOr what should I replace it with?
04:35.20wurp2|awayAssuming that I hate the multitap keyboard...
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04:45.16rasteryou can't
04:45.24rasterwell wait
04:45.36rasterin asu u cant as kbd is not a separate app/window
04:45.40rasterits part of e/eillume
04:45.51rasteri wnated to make a keyboard more modular on a different level
04:45.56rasterlike dictionary looup bing modular
04:46.02rasterlayotu being just a config file
04:46.14rasterand faking keys/words tc. to be a whole subsystem on its own to interface to
04:47.59wurp2|awayI'm on 2007.2
04:48.12wurp2|awaybut apparently the same opkg repositories are now used for ASU?
04:48.21wurp2|awayBecause I can't find openmoko-keyboard to install :-(
04:49.04wurp2|awaySo if ppl want to change the keyboard functionality in a way not supported by the layout they're out of luck?
04:50.47wurp2|awaythx for the quick reply - I didn't actually expect to hear anything at this hour
04:53.11rasterwurp2|away:  right now - yes.
04:53.31rasterwell u'd have to patch code
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04:57.29wurp2|awayOK
04:57.51rasterdoing a new kbd of your own will need the writing of code anyway
04:57.56rasterso same stuff one way or another
04:58.04rasteri wanted to make that writing of code more streamlined/easier
04:58.07rasterint he long run
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05:01.33wurp2|awaysure
05:01.49wurp2|awayhttp://explosm.net/comics/675/
05:02.17wurp2|awaycraptastic
05:02.45wurp2|awayMy standard scripts I run to update a new release fubared my re-image since some of the stuff I use is gone from the repos now :-(
05:02.56wurp2|awayWell, bedtime for me.  Happy hacking!
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05:22.42tessierDoes the freerunner not include a camera?
05:23.03mjrtrue
05:24.34rastercorrect!
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05:25.36tessierInteresting. I rarely use the camera in my phone anyhow.
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05:56.03AtulCM, Hi am trying to compile Gtk based project it is giving me error like "CROSS COMPILE Badness: /usr/include in INCLUDEPATH: /usr/include/libmokoui2"
05:58.10AtulCM, My make file is http://pastebin.ca/1043549
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05:59.43doc|homeraster: howdy, you responded to my mail. Why can't fic leverage better components? :/
06:00.47doc|homenot that the screen is the problem, the screen is still better than most of the competition outside of japan, but for procs, etc?
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06:01.12rasterdoc|home: ummmmmmm. that information i can't talk about
06:01.45rasterbut the simple version is
06:01.53raster1. history
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06:02.01raster2. low volumes
06:02.20rasterfact is we can't leverage the best components
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06:03.24doc|homeis there that little competition that none of the component manufacturers can see the potential? This is potentially a whole new market for them. It's potentially the computer in your pocket that people would like. Really, it's like OM is IBM before the pc :/
06:04.22doc|homeand it'll remain low volume if the specs don't keep up with the competition, most people won't buy on openness alone :/
06:04.26doc|homesadly
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06:08.05rasterwe have a limited ability to get components - at this stage
06:08.05rasterthat may improve
06:08.05rasteralso note
06:08.06rasterthis is openmoko
06:08.08rasternot fic
06:08.10rasterfic is not involved in om hardware production beyond providing the factory facilities
06:08.21doc|homethat's a pity :/
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06:09.01doc|homealso, don't get me wrong in any mail I've sent, I realise you're all breaking new ground, and congrats in getting as far as you all have, it's a massive achievement :)
06:09.13doc|homejust need to keep pushing :)
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06:09.43doc|homeby the time the gta04 comes there's should be a nice library of apps and a solid OS hopefully
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06:13.44rasterdoc|home: i dont think they care
06:13.50rasterthey sell to who has the biggest wallet
06:14.17rasteri wish it were different
06:14.27rasterbut the world works on the basis of he with the bigger purse matters more
06:14.30doc|homeno one can go to them and market it differently?
06:14.34rasterso he who busy more components
06:14.44rasterand has boght them in the past matters
06:14.52doc|homewho are freescale's competitors?
06:14.54rasterif u are to small they arent even goign to waqste the time to have a meeting with u
06:15.02rasteras u are not wirth their time to even talk to
06:15.15rasterits not even that
06:15.21rasterthey are not interested in even listening
06:15.27raster"ow mny do u want to buy?"
06:15.30raster"10,000"
06:15.35doc|home"potentially millions"
06:15.42raster"go away. we'll talk to you when you add 2 zeros"
06:15.44rasterno
06:15.47rasteru cant say potentially
06:15.49rasteru say what u will
06:16.07rasterthen u generally have to sign up and buy that many in 1 lump
06:16.13rasterthis is not always the case
06:16.14rasterbut often
06:16.26rasteroften the best components have exclusive deals
06:16.39rasterso for a period of time only 1 customer can get it
06:16.49rasteror the customer has bought up so much supply there is non left for others
06:16.49rasteretc.
06:16.53rastereach thing depends
06:17.05rasterbut it is hard as a small manufacturer to get what u'd like
06:17.16rasterso often its a case of "make do with what you can get"
06:17.24doc|homewhich is why I was asking about freescale, they make the iphone's proc, the freerunner is potentially a much better phone than the iphone, but not if it lags massively behind, can't play movies, etc :/
06:17.28rasteragain - talking jst generally
06:17.33rasternot specific vendors or chips
06:17.48doc|homeso ideally getting someone in fic to get a word in the right ear with their competitor would work
06:17.49rasterdude
06:18.02rasterapple walked in and said "we will buy 12 million chips"
06:18.06rasterwe could never do that
06:18.11rasterthey would laugh us out of the room
06:18.16rasterapple CAN say that
06:18.19rasterand people will believe them
06:18.22doc|homesure
06:18.24rasterwho are we to even say that?
06:18.33rasterwe should not forget the precarious situationw e are in
06:18.44rasterwe are an unproven company with an unproven product in an unproven market niche
06:18.52rasterwith an unproven strategy
06:19.02rasterpeople who make stuff are in the business to make money
06:19.06rasterand they will go for the sure bet
06:19.24rasterwe are - in their eyes, so far from a sure bet, we mayaswell not exist
06:19.38rasterits like setting your business strategy on buying and filling out lottery tickets
06:19.43rasterthey just wont do it
06:19.51rasterso u ned up having to go to smaller vendors
06:19.54rasteror resellers
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06:20.02doc|homenods
06:20.13rasteror go to product lines/chips/compnents no longer in demand where they will sell whatever they can as they have stock floating about
06:20.36doc|homeI'm just amazed that none of them can see, nor none of fic can see why it's in their advantage to use their contacts, the potential for this
06:20.47rasteruntil you guys start buying freerunners in the 100,000's
06:20.52doc|homeeven ignoring the idealistic open side, just the components and specs side
06:20.53rasterwe have very little leverage
06:21.01rasterif we have a very solid product run
06:21.07rasterand sales figures to back it up
06:21.14rastercomponent ordering history and PAYMENt history
06:21.19rasterthey dont even know if we'll pay
06:21.30rasterif apple comes to order N compnents
06:21.35rasterthey know apple can and will pay for them
06:21.43rasterfor all they know we mght not even have the money to
06:21.47doc|homenods
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06:22.08rasterreality isnt as rainbow-filled and nice as we'd like
06:22.09raster:)
06:22.24doc|homeof course :)
06:22.25rasterif it were peole wouldnt demand windows on their desktops and laptops
06:22.37rasterthe fact is =- most of the world doesnt think this way - nor does it even care
06:22.39doc|homeit's still amazing no one on their side gets this, or sees the potential
06:22.41rasterit sucks
06:22.45rasterbit its the truth
06:22.47raster:(
06:22.49doc|homeno doubt
06:23.25doc|homeeven ignoring the open side, there's massive potential, even as an iphone beater (yeah, I hate the term too), no expensive apps, no cut to apple, no chunk to the telecomms companies.
06:23.53doc|homeof course, there's the advantage of apple's marketing / design backing
06:24.09rasterdude
06:24.15rasterno one is beating the ip-hone
06:24.17rasteriphone
06:24.26rasternot with the # of sales they hve
06:24.32rasteru are definitely dreaming
06:24.43rasterand open source phone is going to be a niche market
06:24.45rasterfor a long time
06:24.49doc|homemaybe not on numbers, but there was once a time when no one was beating apple in desktops too
06:24.55rasterlets just hope that niche is big enough to support the business
06:25.03rasterand enough to make it less-niche over time
06:25.42mudycsomething that iphone is doing quite well is interaction with the device
06:27.33mudycand i hope that there is an interaction architect for openmoko ui
06:27.37Hopscotchgood morning
06:27.41doc|homemorning
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06:30.04mudycas there are possibilities (opengl support) to have a good enough ui
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06:31.36rasterno chance
06:31.58mudycraster: opengl not supported?
06:32.01rasternup
06:32.18rasterwon't be because no one who has specs under nda is going to spend the time on it
06:32.22rasteron the glamo it's too limited
06:32.32rastercant do gl @ vga
06:32.35rasterhave to go down to qvga
06:32.39rastercan onyl do gl fullscreen.
06:32.45rastermax texture size 256x56
06:32.49rasterno render to texture...
06:33.00rasterand gta03 wont have the glamo
06:33.09rasterso it'd be effort not able to be used on the gta03
06:33.12rasteror gta04 etc.
06:33.41mjrYeah that's all fair enough. I'd still like that mpeg4 decode though.
06:33.56rastersimilar story
06:33.59raster:(
06:34.10rasterhave to develop a non-standard interface to do it
06:34.17rasteretc. etc.
06:34.43mjrsimilar but not the same; more basic functionality than opengl, and simpler and thus faster to code (one would assume; correct me if I'm wrong)
06:34.49rastervideo playback is not in the specs for the freerunner
06:34.55rasterthus - not important
06:35.19mjrdisappointing
06:35.41rasterno one within om has decreeed that god video playback is a requirement for it
06:35.46rastergood
06:35.58rasterin fact video playback isnt even mentioned anywhere
06:36.00raster:/
06:36.18mjrwell, it is at least in the ol' images in the media player description...
06:36.38rasterold images are not a specification
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06:36.54mudycraster: what kind of restrictions om has, could you forward the specifications to named company?
06:37.00rasterASU is what we are doing and media playback is not listed
06:37.13rastermudyc: nup. cant
06:37.13rasternda
06:37.31rasteru need to be an employee of om and sign up to the same nda's
06:37.36rasterand then u can get them
06:37.49mudycraster: well, for a named people who will sign the nda of course
06:38.28rasterom has signed one
06:38.35rasterif u are an employee and u sign an nda with om
06:38.40rasteru inherit om's nda with smedia
06:38.43rasterso u can have access
06:38.55doc|homethere's a mention of hardware decoding on planet.openmoko.org, someone has had some success in fact, not vga of course, but better than was expected
06:39.01doc|homehardware based decoding
06:39.09doc|home^ redundant :/
06:39.15rasterqvga video is doable
06:39.23rasteri have gone into detail on the mailing list before
06:39.27rasternot going to again
06:39.27doc|homeyep
06:39.28raster:)
06:39.33doc|homefine, none of us want that ;)
06:40.23mjroo, thanks for that planet reference
06:40.26doc|homenp
06:40.28mjrthat's all I was really looking for
06:40.35doc|homeactually working, not even just theoretical :)
06:40.36mjrdoesn't follow the planet too closely, maybe should
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06:40.42doc|homeallegedly :)
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06:42.49mjrbut yeah, a quick and dirty mplayer output plugin is _just fine_ by me
06:42.53doc|homehas anyone got a rough draft of a basic contract for group sales? want to have something before I agree to be a buyer
06:43.01doc|homeahs 10 orders for vancouver :)
06:43.03doc|home*has
06:45.30mjrhmm, considering balrog-kun's observation that upscaling to vga at full framerate seems to take a bit more oomph than it has (at least with the code there currently), can one still use the display as a logical qvga display as with gta01?
06:46.12mjr(thereby switching to qvga and scaling to _that_ with the glamo while decoding the video)
06:46.16doc|homeI was wondering would it be possible to do the decoding on the glamo and then have the scaling and rotating done on the cpu?
06:46.26mjrdoc|home, nnnno
06:46.26doc|homesplit the load
06:46.34doc|homemjr: not ideal, but nothing is :)
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06:46.44doc|homeor is it just plain not possible?
06:46.52mjrjust plain not possible
06:47.04mjrremember, the biggest bottleneck here is the cpu-gpu bus
06:47.07doc|homehmmm, well, I asked on the blog if it was possible to just not rotate
06:47.18doc|homesave that overhead, rotation isn't really necessary
06:48.24doc|homecool, there's a response: doc: yes, it?s completely optional, by default the rotation is disabled. And, frankly, if you have to recode the videos to a different codec anyway, you can do the rotation and scalling during recoding, on your PC.
06:48.32mjrmethinks I'll leave a comment on the subject
06:48.41mjryeah, that you had to do with gta01 as well to get playback
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06:48.51mjrI'm happy enough if I can get the same with the FR
06:49.05doc|homeyeah
06:49.39mjrthough I'm still hopeful that in QVGA mode the chip has enough oomph to rotate and scale many preexisting files
06:50.03doc|homeI think he said it did
06:50.19mjrsaid "probably", didn't say he tried it ;]
06:50.24doc|homehehe
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07:28.49polaruhello. anybody from HU around?
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07:29.10Sup3rkiddohi all, the kernel in OM does support inotify.doesn't it.
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07:50.49Sup3rkiddoanyone able to ping git.freesmartphone.org?
07:51.34maroiyep
07:51.40mmontouryes
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07:57.52Sup3rkiddohmm..ok..thanks
07:58.31Sup3rkiddoam not able to push :S....fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly....
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08:37.54*** topic/#openmoko by cb22 -> No, Freerunner is not out yet, but mass production has started. Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates . | ASU means April Software Update and is coming soon.
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08:38.53cb22yay for mass production :)
08:42.00andrenarchyyippie! :)
08:42.59mjryay for that
08:46.18Sup3rkiddoyay
08:46.27ohinihox&!rt for that!
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09:20.37ScaredyCathave you not been paying attention cb22?
09:21.21cb22ScaredyCat: toA
09:21.24cb22to?*
09:21.40ScaredyCatsuggests starting selling units on 11th July
09:21.51ScaredyCatpoints at topic change..
09:22.00ScaredyCatthat was ages ago
09:22.29cb22oh, i'm sorry for not updating the topc within 25 seconds of the announcement :)
09:22.46ScaredyCatwhat?
09:23.00ScaredyCatit was 5 days ago
09:23.29cb22s/25 seconds/5 days/
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11:11.15soundaru-boot is not coming in my neo1973
11:12.22soundarwhen i insert  battery it is booting with pressing power button
11:13.17madwootapress the power button and it boots? how unexpected! :)
11:16.20Sup3rkiddosoundar, press the aux button as well
11:16.25Sup3rkiddoi mean keep pressing it
11:16.41soundarhow to i get into u-boot ?
11:16.59diego_at_workpress aux (and keep it pressed)
11:17.13soundarit s not coming..
11:17.16diego_at_workpress power button (and keep it pressed for at least 3 second)
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11:19.22bazzawillhey everyone
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11:21.21soundaru-boot is not working..can i update my u-boot
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11:24.40bazzawilldoes anybody have any info on umts development?
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11:37.41xMDKxmorning
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11:39.19BBishopso .. if freerunner is clear to launch .. any date when deliveries will start ?
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11:42.21Any_KeyBBishop, nothing yet
11:46.14nezza-_-soundar: wiki.. you have to press AUX+POWER at the _SAME_time, and hold it!
11:47.05nezza-_-soundar: if you're uboot would be broken, it wouldnt even boot
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11:49.04Any_KeyBBishop, well I think it'll be on announce list then it be OK
11:49.26BBishopyeah ...
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11:50.04BBishopthere's a computer science fest in germany this month .. any chance I'll get to see openmoko around there ?
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12:00.28SamuraiDiohi
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12:01.02SamuraiDiohow could i download openmoko to run on qemu?
12:01.17*** join/#openmoko tobi (n=tobi@f054028183.adsl.alicedsl.de)
12:01.21Any_Keyuse mokomakefile
12:01.29diego_at_worklook at wiki.openmoko.org ^^
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12:09.06SamuraiDiosorry, i can't find
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12:11.44diego_at_workSamuraiDio, have you look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu
12:12.42SamuraiDioahh, sure.. tnx
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12:26.39cbrake_awaythe keyboard in the qtopia-x11 builds -- is that part of Qtopia or Illume?
12:27.27XorAcbrake: illume
12:27.46cbrakeXorA: neat -- it works well
12:29.59dcordesXorA: did you try and boot what you built with my updated recipe yesterday?
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12:30.18*** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au)
12:30.29XorAdcordes: I didnt build it, OE/bitbake was broken and I thought I would wait for the fix to be committed
12:30.53dcordesok I will make a test then right now
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12:36.49dcordesnotices rm -rf tmp is not much of green IT lol
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12:46.50CIA-44freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * rbe19093e7c77 10/ophoned/modems/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
12:46.50CIA-44freesmartphone.org: python-ophoned: revamp call handling to use a full fledged state machine
12:46.50CIA-44freesmartphone.org: Q: Do we get a dedicated %CPI for hold events or do we need to rely solely on CCWA/CCLD?
12:50.56*** join/#openmoko maroi (n=mario@213.33.89.38)
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13:23.29spydonis openmoko.org down? :O
13:23.41spydonah just joking it was my connection that was a bit weird...
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14:07.29SpeedEvilbal: Can you give a brief overview of what the MP3 unit can do? Can it be used to simply decode audio in a low-power way, if the CPU is running at 50MHz, and doing nothing more than reading the SD, transferring it to the decode unit on the GPU, reading the output data from a RAM buffer in the video RAM, and streaming it to a DAC?
14:07.38SpeedEvilOh - guess not.
14:10.09*** join/#openmoko fenfir (n=fenfir@adsl-64-219-108-44.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net)
14:10.15*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@82.201.174.159)
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14:41.06Bishjep jep.. mass production has been started
14:41.16SpeedEvilWoo!
14:41.22*** join/#openmoko fenfir (n=fenfir@adsl-64-219-108-44.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net)
14:42.09wurp2|awayWoohoo!
14:42.35wurp2BTW, you might be careful about opkg installing anything from the 2007.2 repositories
14:42.40wurp2as in, avoid it like the plague
14:42.45wurp2It busted my gta01 :-(
14:43.40*** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-75-31-39.dclient.hispeed.ch)
14:44.35*** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-75-31-39.dclient.hispeed.ch)
14:48.19CIA-44openmoko: 03thebohemian 07org.openembedded.dev * ra14b4ada5090 10/conf/distro/chinook-compat.conf: chinook-compat.conf: Updates
14:48.20CIA-44openmoko: 03thebohemian 07org.openembedded.dev * r09611789cd98 10/conf/distro/chinook-compat.conf: merge of '4392736ce508627f703cfd1f8849601caf77f045'
14:48.20CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r40062726cf1d 10/classes/gtk-icon-cache.bbclass: gtk-icon-cache.bbclass: Remove '-' characters from function names fixing issues with recent bitbakes (from poky)
14:48.21CIA-44openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * rd6432e350528 10/classes/oestats-client.bbclass: oestats-client.bbclass: add the DEPENDS variable to task reports
14:48.24CIA-44openmoko: 03likewise 07org.openembedded.dev * rff7011abb7ac 10/packages/mtd/mtd-utils_1.1.0.bb: mtd-utils-1.1.0: Removed DEFAULT_PREFERENCE=-1 later than scheduled.
14:48.27CIA-44openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r4a6c8434d816 10/packages/efl1/ (13 files): efl cvs bump PV in compliance with upstream
14:48.30CIA-44openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r6101351ad9a4 10/packages/mtd/mtd-utils_1.1.0.bb: merge of '854af845cc8e7d6a3ae568387115eb89f78fba82'
14:48.35CIA-44openmoko: 03Laibsch 07org.openembedded.dev * rd86e72419140 10/packages/vnc/x11vnc_0.9.3.bb: x11vnc: add libxtst to DEPENDS. Closes 4282.
14:48.38CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r4efaa9143ae3 10/packages/linux/ (linux-omap2-git/beagleboard/defconfig linux-omap2_git.bb): linux-omap2 git: update to rc3 and remove v4l2 from defconfig since that's broken in rc3
14:48.42CIA-44openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * rcff5af5728fc 10/packages/vnc/x11vnc_0.9.3.bb: merge of '1b4c6de83b5df499179899a549a0e828450e5f48'
14:48.47CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * re80818f641c3 10/packages/linux/ (7 files in 2 dirs): linux-omap2 git: add patches to convert mcbsp to a platform device and add omap3 ASoC driver based on that (still missing the actual TWL4030 codec driver though)
14:48.51CIA-44openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * r13d501764a44 10/packages/linux/ (7 files in 2 dirs): merge of '15e4e8f4f0911b6d7b063f78ad573c2face554e5'
14:49.00CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r3b520963bdd1 10/packages/dsplink/dsplink_1.50.bb: dsplink: fix pnum due to changed S
14:49.03CIA-44openmoko: 03crofton 07org.openembedded.dev * r1520d5482614 10/packages/u-boot/ (files/sffsdr-u-boot.patch u-boot_git.bb): u-boot_git.bb : Add support for building u-boot for the Lyrtech Small
14:49.06CIA-44openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * re6bd31d22212 10/ (69 files in 17 dirs): merge of '0e517dabcd24598274e65b9a372217fa56ffe66a'
14:49.13CIA-44openmoko: 03likewise 07org.openembedded.dev * rb2f21b6a1c0d 10/contrib/mtn-bisect.sh: mtn-bisect.sh
14:49.15*** join/#openmoko surf2me (n=surfer@unixboard/users/surf2me)
14:49.16CIA-44openmoko: 03likewise 07org.openembedded.dev * rd68a390ffcb9 10/ (185 files in 63 dirs): merge of '635b19191517f99ee151ae6157a22f5d56406238'
14:49.17CVirusCIA-44: _|_
14:49.19CIA-44openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r1718f9e12b33 10/packages/python/python-efl.inc: python-efl.inc: remove bashisms to make the Ubuntu crew happy
14:49.20CVirus:-)
14:49.24*** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@216.27.62.2)
14:49.26CIA-44openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r79c89c854561 10/packages/python/python-efl.inc: merge of '4d6dbbd6409e2a93093659bf415ba3b79f7bc3f6'
14:49.27tobii_wow
14:49.29tobii_;D
14:49.29CIA-44openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r573aa9a3be4d 10/packages/python/python_2.5.2.bb: python 2.5.2 sed hardcoded ccache out of Makefile and substitute with $(CCACHE). Closes #4144
14:49.32CIA-44openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openembedded.dev * r24b0722180e8 10/packages/cacao/ (4 files in 2 dirs): cacao: add hg version 8190 and the corresponding cacaoh-native.
14:49.41CIA-44openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * r189fb6469aea 10/classes/base.bbclass: base.bbclass: add a METADATA_BRANCH variable
14:49.44CIA-44openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * r9d5b6b6b5a22 10/classes/oestats-client.bbclass: oestats-client.bbclass: report METADATA_BRANCH variable
14:49.51CIA-44openmoko: 03Laibsch 07org.openembedded.dev * r89da4dbea2c0 10/packages/glibmm/ (glibmm_2.12.10.bb glibmm_2.14.2.bb glibmm_2.16.2.bb): glibmm: move up to latest stable release. fixes build problems in 4264.
14:49.54CIA-44openmoko: 03Laibsch 07org.openembedded.dev * rdc18581e0da6 10/packages/ctorrent/ (ctcs_1.4.1.bb ctorrent.inc ctorrent_3.3.1.bb): ctorrent: add ctcs 1.4.1 and ctorrent 3.3.1. Closes 4278 and 2646.
14:49.57CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r3acb1fa10d43 10/packages/linux/linux-omap2_git.bb: linux-omap2 git: bump srcrev to get basic powermanagement support for omap3
14:49.58CVirussomeone decided that OM shall be finished within the next 2 hours or something
14:50.00CViruslol
14:50.06CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r7b5871cc96e9 10/conf/bitbake.conf: bitbake.conf: Correctly export PATH variable
14:50.09CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r16c175cf364c 10/classes/image.bbclass: image.bbclass: Cleanup whitespace (from poky)
14:50.16CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * rd8415190a7b0 10/classes/image.bbclass: image.bbclass: Remove use of bbimage (from poky)
14:50.19CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * rc9cd6f7eb6cd 10/classes/devshell.bbclass: devshell.bbclass: Export variables used by the class (from poky)
14:50.22CIA-44openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openembedded.dev * r18312e93e37c 10/packages/cacao/ (8 files in 2 dirs): cacao: change hg rev to corresponding date.
14:50.25CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * rc8b2691d45dd 10/packages/jpeg/ (5 files in 2 dirs): jpeg: Sync with poky, massively improve libtool handling and drop pointless sections of debian patch (200k of them)
14:50.32CIA-44openmoko: 03thebohemian 07org.openembedded.dev * rd39a09a96bc4 10/ (88 files in 26 dirs): merge of 'be23a3d9c964660487451387d6318c3915ad5b51'
14:50.39CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r28dcab745916 10/classes/kernel.bbclass: kernel.bbclass: comment initramfs stuff till rootfs locking works properly (initramfs should be optional as well)
14:50.41CViruscommit fest
14:50.42CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * rdf4080e47a6f 10/packages/linux/linux-omap2-git/beagleboard/defconfig: linux omap2 git: disable omap mux driver because it breaks usb host
14:50.45CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r562188a3ff39 10/packages/linux/ (13 files in 5 dirs): gumstix-kernel: attempt to unbreak it, part #1
14:50.48CIA-44(137 lines omitted)
14:50.50CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r7450d8563520 10/packages/linux/linux-rp_2.6.24.bb: linux-rp-2.6.24: Update locomo keyboard patch for collie/poodle (#2367)
14:50.55CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * rf54e56f5520f 10/packages/linux/linux-rp.inc: linux-rp.inc: Remove INITRAMFS_IMAGE setting. This is a personal (local.conf) or distro configuration option since its policy. Please discuss this on the mailing list or with me if you disagree.
14:51.07CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r7c49af0fba5f 10/packages/linux/linux-rp-2.6.24/hrw-hostapcard.patch: linux-rp-2.6.24: Uncondionally apply a number of patches, add missing patch from poky
14:51.10CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r0b269f64bb4f 10/packages/linux/linux-rp_2.6.24.bb: linux-rp-2.6.24: Uncondionally apply a number of patches, add missing patch from poky
14:51.13CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * re7e42b20ce9b 10/packages/linux/ (12 files in 2 dirs): linux-rp-2.6.24: Sync defconfigs with Poky. Making the crypto modules builtin is wrong and compounds an existing space problem, the should be marked as autoloaded.
14:51.21CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r3db95c8dd511 10/packages/linux/ (17 files in 2 dirs): linux-rp-2.6.23: Sync with Poky in the same way as 2.6.24
14:51.30CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * r28e2f303b98b 10/packages/linux/ (30 files in 2 dirs): linux-rp: Add 2.6.25+2.6.26-rc4 version, making it the default for qemuarm, qemux86 and spitz so far (from poky)
14:51.33CIA-44openmoko: 03rpurdie 07org.openembedded.dev * rc7000e3a415f 10/packages/v86d/ (v86d_0.1.3.bb v86d_0.1.5.bb): v86d: 0.1.3 -> 0.1.5
14:51.36CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r6d6852c86382 10/packages/pkgconfig/ (7 files in 2 dirs): pkgconfig: sync with poky
14:51.39CIA-44openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * r6c1801d8257d 10/packages/pkgconfig/ (7 files in 2 dirs): merge of '57b770a7023dbcdb2b9d6d1a19890a743793d79c'
14:51.44CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * rb1ed16425331 10/packages/angstrom/angstrom-zeroconf-audio.bb: angstrom zeroconf audio: add more RDEPENDS
14:51.49CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r6dff71cb3a7e 10/packages/libtool/libtool-cross_2.2.4.bb: libtool cross 2.2.4: check for dolt.m4 before trying to install it
14:51.56CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r218fbf791d85 10/packages/glib-2.0/ (3 files in 2 dirs): glib-2.0: add 2.16.3 from poky, patched to work with libtool 2.2.4, disabled by default for that reason
14:52.01CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r6290d2f2ec72 10/packages/libusb/ (3 files in 2 dirs): libusb: add libtool patch from poky, safe for general consumption
14:52.04CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * rb3e7bed39a28 10/packages/gstreamer/gst-plugins.inc: gst-plugins.inc: remove esound dependency
14:52.09CIA-44openmoko: 03crofton 07org.openembedded.dev * rc53057f33fea 10/packages/linux/linux-omap1-2.6.25-omap1/defconfig: linux-omap1 : Use defconfig from kernel source. This boots in Angstrom, but
14:52.12CIA-44openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * r8bce38cba6ec 10/packages/linux/linux-omap1-2.6.25-omap1/defconfig: merge of 'c0b4eb64db45d24b111a58d9ffb1b180e4d17137'
14:52.19CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r101b2e516753 10/packages/linux/ (9 files in 2 dirs): linux-omap2 git: enable smart reflex driver for beagleboard
14:52.24CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * rb397863aae8d 10/packages/freetype/freetype_2.3.5.bb: freetype: sanitize do_configure
14:52.27CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r666d6843e79a 10/packages/cairo/ (3 files in 2 dirs): cairo 1.6.4: add libtool patch
14:52.32CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r2e6c18b0896e 10/packages/libtiff/tiff_3.8.2.bb: tiff: update to 4.0.0beta2 for libtool fixes
14:52.35CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r45ca5fca89e0 10/packages/hal/ (9 files in 3 dirs): hal: sync with poky
14:52.38CIA-44openmoko: 03koen 07org.openembedded.dev * r2cd3bd5d85d0 10/packages/esound/ (esound_0.2.36.bb files/configure-fix.patch): esound: clean configure of 0.36 a bit
14:52.43CIA-44(93 lines omitted)
14:52.45CIA-44openmoko: 03bluelightning 07org.openembedded.dev * rd612d8725eb5 10/packages/libgpewidget/libgpewidget_0.115.bb: merge of '12044547859d68999d0a4712daf7bea26128696c'
14:52.50CIA-44openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * r0a73a1d0820b 10/packages/libopie/libopie2/ipaq_rotate_fix.patch: merge of '3b5424db9b8ce0b7d550ad80e57b9462b0de36f8'
14:52.55CIA-44openmoko: 03jeremy_laine 07org.openembedded.dev * rb7115a13483d 10/packages/linux/linux.inc: linux.inc: add a symlink from /boot/devicetree to /boot/devicetree-${KERNEL-VERSION}
14:53.00CIA-44openmoko: 03xora 07org.openembedded.dev * ra9f716f6b8ff 10/packages/linux/linux-kaiser_2.6.24+git.bb: linux-kaiser_2.6.24+git.bb : update from dcordes
14:53.03CIA-44openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * rc57a9186a394 10/packages/bash/ (bash.inc bash_3.2.bb): bash 3.2 change the way how mkbuiltin is compiled for host
14:53.08CIA-44openmoko: 03likewise 07org.openembedded.dev * rc2c1080df794 10/packages/linux/ (3 files in 2 dirs): linux-rt-2.6.25: Bump to -rt6 and add efika. Note that -rt is unstable.
14:53.13CIA-44openmoko: 03oe 07org.openembedded.dev * rc78107641d7c 10/packages/ (3 files in 2 dirs): merge of '2fce1b18b908ec5929c213cc29050175502a72a6'
14:53.16ScaredyCatwhoapappaapappapappapa
14:53.16CIA-44openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r90f5d132abc4 10/packages/bash/ (5 files in 2 dirs): bash 3.2 fix compiling, this time for real
14:53.19CIA-44openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * r9dd5400d4732 10/packages/gstreamer/gst-plugin-pulse_0.9.4.bb: gst-plugin-pulse 0.9.4 remove buggy version, leaving 0.9.7 as the only working one
14:53.22*** mode/#openmoko [+o Ganneff] by ChanServ
14:53.26CIA-44openmoko: 03mickeyl 07org.openembedded.dev * raff4422f2904 10/conf/distro/include/preferred-om-2008-versions.inc: preferred-om-versions: yank removed versions
14:53.28*** mode/#openmoko [+b %CIA-44!*@*] by Ganneff
14:53.45CVirushaha
14:53.52XorAgreat so now all OM source updates are banned :-(
14:54.07Ganneffonly the log messages flooding irc
14:54.19Ganneffbut not for long, as that flood will be over soon, i guess
14:54.31Ganneffwe had that some time ago already
14:54.34XorAI think you actually banned it after the last one anyway
14:54.45Ganneffhrm
14:54.51Ganneffwell. lets check
14:54.55*** mode/#openmoko [-b %CIA-44!*@*] by Ganneff
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14:55.13CVirussilence
14:55.34*** mode/#openmoko [-o Ganneff] by Ganneff
14:55.47ScaredyCatit was a noisy mofo anyhow
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14:56.16XorAScaredyCat: the noisier it is the harder we are working
14:56.38ScaredyCatcoughs uncontrollably.....
14:56.58XorAyou need some Covonia
14:56.58ScaredyCatfor a in `find *` touch $a
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15:00.01ScaredyCatI need inspiration...
15:00.13ScaredyCatI'm tempted by the dark sie
15:00.15ScaredyCatside
15:01.36mwesternotes that all the commits were on the OE branch, not on the OM branches ;-)
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15:04.21mwesterand now a netsplit... the IRC gods are unhappy this morning.
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15:10.26wurp2ScaredyCat: Do your repositories still work for 2007.2?
15:10.33wurp2e.g. can I install openmoko-keyboard
15:10.39ScaredyCatyes
15:10.41wurp2and other stuff w/o breaking my gta01?
15:10.47ScaredyCaterrm/..
15:10.55wurp2K, I'll be swapping to your stuff tonight, I guess
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15:11.03ScaredyCatyeah,, iirc you can replace the multitap
15:11.20wurp2My standard post-install scripts, which just opkg install a bunch of stuff, broke my neo last night
15:11.28ScaredyCat:o
15:11.30wurp2openmoko-today won't start
15:11.45wurp2and openmoko-keyboard is gone from the standard repositories
15:12.01wurp2ScaredyCat: That was my reaction, too
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15:14.19ScaredyCatafaik you don;t need the om kb
15:14.29ScaredyCatif you want the matchbox kb
15:15.09wurp2I don't think matchbox kb is there any more either
15:15.21wurp2I did opkg list | grep keyboard and didn't see anything familiar :-(
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16:03.54daMaestrohopes that the price of the freerunner (maybe just following devices) will be able to compete with the $199 iphone :-/
16:04.04tobii_lol
16:04.20daMaestrohowever, i assume most of the price break is due to AT&T paying apple *a lot* of money
16:04.23daMaestrofor all the new contracts
16:04.27daMaestro+ 3G data plans
16:04.54Tanuvadoesnt understand why the neo is always being compared to the iphone
16:05.07SpeedEvilthinks Tanuva is rather naive.
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16:05.30SpeedEvilIt's a similar form factor, with overall similar featuers in many ways.
16:05.44SpeedEvilAt least as far as consumers are concerned on the hardware.
16:06.16Tanuvabut its in a state the iphone is not anymore - the time it was, we didnt know about it
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16:09.19zedstar_if they are really 100 pounds no legal obiligation to sign a contract and it can be jailbroken i would probably get one
16:09.32wurp2zedstar_: You have to sign a contract now
16:09.44zedstar_wurp2; ah i thought as much
16:10.16zedstar_i have an iphone and just walked in bought it for 169 pounds and unlocked it in 10 minutes which was a good deal
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16:10.33zedstar_if that was possible for 100 pounds i would do the same
16:11.19wurp2zedstar_: Have you been hacking on it?
16:11.50wurp2Reference regarding the contract: http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/10/1229226
16:11.51zedstar_wurp2 well yeh im working on a project using one
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16:12.11wurp2zedstar_: Can you compare hackability & usability vs gta01?
16:13.05zedstar_wurp2 well....it is messy.......not easy to compile for.....i ported some stuff....things like ruby build and just crash on the device
16:13.43zedstar_wurp2 but i do everything from linux....cross compiler on linux etc so it is not too different than openmoko in that sense
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16:24.22zedstar_of course i would rather a freerunner than an iphone though!
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16:27.18wurp2:-)
16:27.34wurp2It was a real disappointment last night when opkg installing some stuff broke my gta01 :-(
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16:28.46zedstar_is opkg broken ? i have not updated for a week or so and still seems to work so perhaps i shouldnt try and upgrade right now
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16:29.48SpeedEvilwurp2: got a debug board, and if no, where are you?
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16:36.03wurp2SpeedEvil: It's not that badly broken
16:36.07wurp2I wasn't doing a uboot update
16:36.20wurp2I just need to dfu burn again and figure out what I can & can't update
16:36.39wurp2But right now, my phone can receive calls & that's it, because I didn't have time to burn yet again
16:37.00wurp2zedstar_: I definitely recommend against trying to opkg upgrade :-)
16:37.19wurp2openmoko-today died with a bunch of GLIBC issues, then some weird dbus problems
16:37.51wurp2SpeedEvil: But I don't have a debug board.  That's why I almost never update uboot.
16:38.03SpeedEvilAh
16:38.13wurp2Broken was probably too strong a word to use
16:38.20zedstar_wurp2 ah ok thanks for the tip
16:38.31wurp2But that's what it felt like when opkg installing some stuff made my neo no longer usable
16:38.51wurp2some stuff == some stuff I've opkg installed many times before
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16:49.48juri_so, is there someone present who cares about debugging these things, or should i just reboot and pray this problem goes away? :P
16:50.13juri_(yes, that was a touch under trolling. *curses at taiwan*)
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16:51.16juri_i've got three days of uptime on my neo, in which its barely been used. something in X or the touchscreen driver has taken a walk.
16:52.11juri_when i ssh'd into the machine, it had a load of 3.77.
16:52.12SpeedEvilI had that
16:52.12juri_i can unlock it.. but the whole interface acts like the device is amazingly loaded.
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16:52.12SpeedEvilI had a spate of oom-kill events in dmesg
16:52.14juri_checks.
16:52.44juri_yepyep.
16:53.02juri_hald invoked oom-killer. hald presently owns 56% of the systems memory.
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16:53.28juri_aparently, it decided to kill my openmoko-today application.
16:54.05juri_so, would someone like to ssh into this unit while its malfunctioning, or should i just reboot it, and pray some developer we never hear from in taiwan has fixed it?
16:54.55wurp2juri_: If you're running the 2007.2 release (i.e. not ASU), I don't think any OM dev plans to work on it on company time :-(
16:55.15wurp2I do not work for OM, just to make that clear
16:55.25juri_wurp2: i'm running whatever is current. i keep my unit up-to-date, and updated it *yesterday*.
16:55.27wurp2Just conveying impressions from chatting with them
16:55.58wurp2juri_: But, is it up to date ASU + Qtopia, or up-to-date old school OM?
16:56.06juri_the only thing i did out of the ordinary, was set the time correctly. it jumped 8 days.
16:56.33wurp2I did an opkg install of some stuff on my OM last night and now openmoko-today won't come up at all
16:56.35juri_wurp2: the difference being? (how do i tell?)
16:56.53juri_i used openmokobuild about a month ago to build the image, and have kept it updated.
16:57.12juri_so, whatever the makefile/qemu stuff builds.
16:57.16wurp2juri_: If you don't have the illume stuff (fancy sideways sliding) and Qtopia, you're running 2007.2 or some hybrid
16:57.33wurp2but again, mokomakefile builds two different things depending on the variable value
16:57.55juri_nothing slides sideways. is there a package i can look for?
16:58.03wurp2OM_GIT_BRANCH
16:58.17juri_i doubt thats a package name. :)
16:58.21wurp2the value is either org.openmoko.dev or org.openmoko.asu.dev or org.openmoko.asu.stable
16:58.30wurp2That is not a package name
16:58.42wurp2it is a variable in the mokomakefile that tells which branch you are building
16:59.09juri_i'm not at my buildhost. is there something i can check on my openmoko?
16:59.17wurp2I'm not sure what it would be
16:59.22wurp2Because I've never run asu
16:59.39wurp2I know when I did opkg list | grep openmoko-keyboard last night, I got no results
16:59.44wurp2and that used to be there
17:00.02mmontourjuri_: the hald memory issue is #1263 in OM's bugtracker
17:00.03juri_no packages that start with q are installed.
17:00.29juri_wurp2: technically, you should be doing 'opkg list_installed'
17:00.47juri_list just lists available packages. (yea, not intuitive for us debianites)
17:01.21juri_mmontour: thank you. at least i know this issue is being tracked.
17:01.58wurp2I am not worried about installed
17:02.05juri_as a fellow dev, i know finding devices in these odd states is sometimes very valuable. so i dropped in, to see if i could offer ssh access to a 'malfunctioning' unit.
17:02.05wurp2I am worried about, does the package exist at all
17:02.38wurp2because I want it
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17:04.54juri_so, reboot time!
17:06.17juri_for the record, if one of you wants to drop by #openmosix, and get snotty about my project, feel free. :P
17:06.26Sup3rkiddohi, is there anyone here with commit access to fso git repos...am gettign a remote host hung up error...can anyone confirm by pushing some dummy stuff..thanks
17:06.55juri_also for the record, i just got informed that in this mode my phone is missing phone calls.
17:09.50juri_(you guys move forward at about the same rate i do! :P )
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17:18.02Bishi preorderet freerunner, wenn will i have it?
17:18.22Qwellfrom whom did you preorder it?
17:18.30linuxxrlol
17:19.05Bishtrisoft
17:19.32Bishdamn im mixing 2 languages :D
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17:20.05BishQwell: trisoft, ? could u tell meß
17:20.17Qwellnever heard of them..
17:20.18BishQwell: its a german reseller :/
17:20.28BishQwell: http://trisoft.de
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17:24.55wurp2wenn is close genug
17:26.55wurp2Bish: I don't think anyone knows.
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17:27.17wurp2Trisoft doesn't know when OM will get the phones to them, and OM doesn't know how long it will take trisoft to ship 'em
17:27.31wurp2I'm not sure OM knows when it will get the phones to trisoft :-)
17:27.46wurp2But hey, at least you got that pesky money out of your pocket
17:27.53Qwelldoes OM know when OM is getting phones to ship to trisoft? :)
17:29.43wurp2Qwell: Good point; I underestimated the total level of ignorance in the system.
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17:31.58XorAQwell: OM does
17:32.46wurp2XorA: Then why don't we? ;-)
17:33.13XorAwurp2: we get emails on status, but they are on a private list and Im not authorised to spread the word
17:33.20Qwellleak it
17:33.25XorAwurp2: Im not sure what timezone the guy who spreads the word is in
17:33.27Qwellit's legally different :P
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17:34.21wurp2heh
17:35.11XorAproblem with us being spread about the world is you guys spend most of your time interfacing with the .eu employees, but we get the least info :-)
17:41.59wurp2:-)
17:43.05wurp2XorA|gone: Why don't you not send the release date to me via private email at bobbymartin2 at gmail do t com and I won't tell anyone else.
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17:47.36linuxxrlolol
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17:50.02Bishwurp2: haha funny :P
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17:50.35Bishwurp2: trisoft takes my money when freerunner arrives
17:50.46linuxxrWe expect to start shipping the devices late may. In close cooperation with OpenMoko
17:50.48wurp2Bish: I promise not to tell you whenever XorA|gone doesn't tell me
17:51.00linuxxrtrisoft quote
17:51.01wurp2linuxxr: Late May?
17:51.04wurp2That's impressive!
17:51.06Bishhaha :D
17:51.23linuxxrhttp://trisoft.de/en_index.html
17:51.38wurp2Bish: Wow, good deal!
17:51.46wurp2Preorder and don't apy until it ships
17:52.13Bish.. -_- youre funny.. not
17:52.26linuxxrbish what dist r in the middle usa?
17:52.28wurp2s/apy/pay/
17:52.44wurp2I thought OM was the US dist
17:52.48Bishlinuxxr: wut?
17:53.15linuxxrdistribution  company in the usa?
17:53.37wurp2Bish: I really thought that was a good deal... don't most companies make you pay when you pre-order, not when it gets there?  I don't think I've ever preordered something in my life.
17:53.46Bishah i c..
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18:07.33abraxa_linuxxr: Openmoko, Inc. will handle distribution in the US
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18:44.31ScaredyCatwednesday the 23rd June
18:44.34*** join/#openmoko paulproteus (n=paulprot@wide-rose.makesad.us)
18:44.43ScaredyCat25th
18:44.47zashwut
18:45.35*** part/#openmoko SamuraiDio (n=diovani@201.41.41.235)
18:45.41ScaredyCatthats a date when the freerunner wont be shipping
18:47.23SpeedEvilToday is Sweetmorn, the 15th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3174
18:48.11XorA|gonesmites SpeedEvil with his +6 GTA02 of Thundering
18:49.01SpeedEvilGTA02 has -7 to thundering owing to having 1d0+1 speakers.
18:49.31XorA|gonecounted 1d1+1
18:50.23XorA|gonenot as good as the 2d1+1 in GTA01
18:51.06mwesterblows the GTA02 of Thundering into little bits with the BFG10K
18:51.21XorA|gonemwester: a Beagleboard :-D
18:51.53*** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182052225.adsl.alicedsl.de)
18:54.28SpeedEvilInstant messaging hazards. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html
18:55.45Ghiottonehi all
18:56.07Ghiottonewhere is the latest image for GTA01 (that one with illume) ?
18:57.37DankerI see that upcoming release is for developers. Why is that? Is there a little of usable software?
19:03.01wurp2I hear asu is not very usable
19:03.16wurp2And 2007.2 appeared to be broken last night
19:03.33mmontourGhiottone: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080609-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 (but I don't know if it works at all)
19:04.19*** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes)
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19:04.57Ghiottonemmontour, isn't that with qtopia? or am I missing something?
19:05.32wurp2Wow, I see openmoko-devel-images going right up to today
19:05.40wurp2Ghiottone: The ASU *is* with Qtopia
19:05.47wurp2It's not just raw Qtopia
19:05.57Ghiottonewurp2, oh great thanks!
19:06.04Ghiottonemmontour, thanks to you too
19:06.04wurp2It's (mostly working?) Qtopia plus (somewhat working?) other stuff
19:06.14wurp2I haven't used it :-)
19:06.58tobii_Ghiottone: If you want a good image take the images from ScaredyCat
19:06.59tobii_:)
19:10.43*** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178192142.adsl.alicedsl.de)
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19:10.45wurp2kdean06: Are you in?
19:10.57Ghiottonetobii_, got that one too. later I'll try them all :)
19:10.58Ghiottonethanks
19:11.05tobii_:)
19:11.20wurp2Ghiottone: Don't forget Zad
19:11.36kdean06Yep
19:12.02wurp2Did you notice that there are daily openmoko-devel-images again?
19:12.11wurp2Or do you care... are you going asu only for the future?
19:12.23*** join/#openmoko alexxy (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171)
19:12.33*** join/#openmoko bkruse (n=bkruse@phoenixii.total-vision.net)
19:13.53kdean06Yes, I'm aware there are 2007.02 based images, but IIRC they're not actually being developed.
19:14.44bkruseScaredyCat: where you at?
19:16.37wurp2kdean06: Someone's doing something on them
19:17.09wurp2'cause they broke 'em, or at least what I did last night updating from the 2007.2 repositories killed openmoko-today on my neo
19:18.24Ghiottonewurp2, zad
19:18.28Ghiottone?
19:18.36Ghiottonewurp2, what's zad?
19:21.08*** join/#openmoko Sketch (i=sketch@ducks.openverse.com)
19:21.50abraxa_Ghiottone: emdete's alternative software stack
19:22.16kdean06wurp2, Simple answer - I consider 2007.02 based images to be unofficial now, and I don't have the time or energy to review all of the possible unofficial images that might come around.
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19:22.23kdean06If i were to cover an unofficial one, I think ScaredyCat's would have more value, honestly.
19:23.02wurp2kdean06: Sure
19:23.06Ghiottoneand where can I get zad?
19:23.12wurp2I was just double checking :-)
19:23.25wurp2Ghiottone: It's a primarily python stack on top of OE
19:23.34wurp2Ghiottone: I would have to get googley on it to find it
19:23.41wurp2but it should be easy to find with "zad openmoko"
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19:25.54Ghiottonethanks all. bye
19:26.27*** join/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@host81-153-198-60.range81-153.btcentralplus.com)
19:27.16pjzzad is at http://neo1973-germany.de/
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19:28.35wurp2pjz: Too late; he's gone
19:28.53wurp2kdean06: I think I'm going to have to switch to ScaredyCat's repositories until asu is up to snuff
19:29.02wurp2Or *maybe* switch to zad
19:29.26wurp2zad sounds like more hackey fun, but I will have to hack together a media player asap if I jump to it :-)
19:29.43wurp2and a terminal-ish app... and does zad have any keyboard?
19:29.49wurp2ack, maybe not zad yet
19:30.54abraxa_wurp2: Keep in mind that zad follows a totally different approach which might not quite be what you expect
19:31.38wurp2abraxa_: I think I have something of a handle on the zad approach
19:31.44wurp2I've looked at pyneod & pyneog
19:32.11abraxa_okay
19:32.47abraxa_If you're interested to jump on the bandwagon I encourage you to talk to emdete
19:32.48wurp2I realize that it's different enough that I have to write a specific launcher last I checked to get an app to star tup
19:32.55wurp2I have talked with him some
19:33.17abraxa_Well, zad has no concept of "applications"
19:33.17wurp2The "every parm list in dbus is a map" turned me off
19:33.42abraxa_Why did it turn you off?
19:33.43wurp2abraxa_: I can kick off an application... it seems that I would have to write a python function to communicate with it, though
19:34.03wurp2because of the total lack of docs currently on dbus api
19:34.17wurp2and the totally nonstandard way of documenting once the docs exist
19:34.35abraxa_You mean the lack of docs for zad's d-bus API?
19:34.42wurp2yeah
19:34.54abraxa_Ah, that's understandable then
19:35.05abraxa_I thought you had conceptional issues
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19:35.11wurp2I mean, normally when I say lack of docs, it means "figure out what it does based on the name and parameters"
19:35.30wurp2but when it means "figure out what the parameters are by digging into the code", that's another level
19:35.46wurp2Well, I do have a conceptional issue, although in python it really comes down to a documentation issue
19:36.03abraxa_Well, zad quite frankly isn't in a state where other developers can contribute too much, though that'll obviously change over time
19:36.04wurp2I like to see the expected parameters in the interface
19:36.25wurp2sure
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19:45.58Zero_Doggokay, I might be massively misinformed here, so maybe you can clear it up. What's the status of the gtk-based openmoko firmware? Is it still being developed, just not default on freerunner, or has it been dropped?
19:46.42wurp2I think you mean software
19:46.46wurp2not firmware
19:46.54Zero_Doggahm, yes, the software stack
19:47.02wurp2And I think it is mostly dropped, but really that's a question I just asked on community-devel
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19:47.33mjrWell, its firmwareness is a matter of taste really. I can see it being called that...
19:47.40wurp2I opkg installed some stuff from the gtk stack last night and it killed openmoko-today on my neo
19:47.57abraxa_Zero_Dogg: Last I heard it is the default image on mass-produced Freerunners but I don't see development continuing
19:48.03wurp2Which is the app that is the launcher for all other apps :-/
19:48.28wurp2mjr: From that point of view, all sw on the neo would be firmware...
19:48.42mjrwurp2, well it is an embedded system...
19:48.42Zero_Dogghow will support for gtk be on the qt-based stack then, non-existant or still working?
19:49.25wurp2mjr: I guess, but what really distinguishes it from a PC?
19:49.27mjrZero_Dogg, well. The stack still uses X and is basically toolkit agnostic, the qtopia stuff is used for the phone functions, yes, but that shouldn't restrict other things
19:49.36mjrwurp2, the case ;)
19:49.44wurp2:-)
19:50.02wurp2gtk will still work
19:50.24abraxa_Zero_Dogg: The "qt-based" stack is only temporary as well. Qtopia and GTK are on the same level really. How well everything interacts... tough call.
19:50.40Zero_Doggmjr: right, the point was more if it was going to be maintained/supported. I want to write stuff for it using gtk, but if that will get deprecated or not be properly maintained that will be an uphill battle (ie. I can't start maintaining gtk libs on my own)
19:50.57Zero_Doggabraxa_: so the software stack is really up in the air at this point then?
19:51.12zedstar_u have a fair point zero_dogg
19:51.12wurp2Zero_Dogg: I think gtk is as likely to be maintained long term as any UI framework is ;-)
19:51.32ljpseem to be working hard on just a 'temporary' solution...
19:51.43abraxa_Zero_Dogg: Under major development, rather. The ASU image is just an attempt to get something that end-users can use - it's not the be-all end-all
19:51.54Zero_Doggright
19:52.07wurp2ljp: Yeah, to me this seems like the time to define your final targets carefully and go after them, if you're gonna do a rewrite
19:52.21zedstar_anyone body walking in wanting to do GUI apps is gonna be confused for a while i guess
19:52.29abraxa_Zero_Dogg: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenmokoFramework gives you an idea of how it'll be in the long run
19:52.47wurp2zedstar_: It seems to me that anybody coming in to do any kind of app is confused right now
19:52.53wurp2Since dbus is in flux too
19:53.03Zero_Dogg"#  Be UI toolkit agnostic " - seems promising at least
19:53.08wurp2So the bottom and top of the stack are in motion.  It makes building something for the middle tough.
19:53.17zedstar_wurp2 yeh that is a fair point.....i am sticking to C and glib which has to remain for now
19:53.22wurp2Zero_Dogg: Yeah, that is supposed to be the plan
19:53.28SpeedEvilzigg: global warming.
19:53.30SpeedEviloops
19:53.32*** join/#openmoko oh__ (n=opera@99.77.broadband9.iol.cz)
19:54.06wurp2I'm just doing python/gtk, and targeting dbus but settling on sysfs interfaces when necessary
19:54.10wurp2which is always, right now
19:54.32Zero_Doggpygtk2 already runs on it?
19:55.01wurp2Zero_Dogg: python-gtk runs on it
19:55.22wurp2Not sure about gtk2... I am fairly ignorant of gtk, despite having written an app or two for it :-)
19:55.24Zero_Doggwurp2: nice, maybe I can reuse code from maemo port then
19:56.20zedstar_if i was a gambling man i wud probably go for qtopia if i wanted the most exposure
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19:56.59ljpor something that just worked :)
19:57.15SpeedEvilqt has problems if you're thinking of developing commercial software.
19:57.27SpeedEvilBut aren't sure you can make it.
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19:59.33wurp2Is there not a GUI agnostic framework in python?
19:59.51zedstar_ljp when can we expect to see qt on symbian? :)
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20:00.00wurp2It seems to me it would be fairly easy to build an agnosticator (tm) for python to let me code to one interface, then switch gui toolkits
20:00.08mjr"just working" isn't really the image that I've gotten of qtopia from the OM guy who's actually trying to make it work
20:00.39*** part/#openmoko oh__ (n=opera@99.77.broadband9.iol.cz)
20:00.49mjrbut yeah, the original om stack wasn't really prime of course either
20:00.56Sketchall this iphone news lately has me wondering if there has been any talk about an openmoko with 3G?
20:01.10wurp2Qtopia did a pretty good impression of "just working" on the OM hardware (if you do the old basic Qtopia install)
20:01.11mjrSketch, "probably GTA04 someday"
20:01.43XorA|gonewurp2: killed om-t2 in what way?
20:02.27mjrwurp2, that doesn't really count, as non-X qtopia is useless for interop, and apparently there's a lot lacking in the gsm area (for instance from what I gathered total ignoring of charsets)
20:02.50*** join/#openmoko oh__ (n=opera@99.77.broadband9.iol.cz)
20:02.58XorA|gonemjr: you can run X in qtopia instead :-)
20:03.25*** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@84.78.178.63)
20:03.41wurp2XorA|gone: I get a bunch of CRITICAL GLIBC messages when I try to start it manually
20:03.51wurp2XorA|gone: And then dbus appears to be down
20:04.06XorA|gonewurp2: damn, Ill bet thats the postinst bitbake problem
20:04.06wurp2XorA|gone: You're shitting me!
20:04.14wurp2You can run X in Qtopia?
20:04.32wurp2XorA|gone: I was installing opkgs from the standard repositories
20:04.33XorA|gonewurp2: you could in qtopia 2.X bet it wouldnt be hard to forward port
20:04.40wurp2XorA|gone: wow.
20:04.43mjrYou can certainly make it run in it. Then you have all the fun integration work ahead of you.
20:04.57wurp2mjr: Don't get me wrong, I much prefer the reverse :-)
20:05.13wurp2mjr: It just kind of shocked me that you could run it "upside down" like that
20:05.16XorA|gonewurp2: there is breakage in bitbake which means no postinst runs, Ill have to do an OE->OM merge soon probably to recover from breakage
20:05.33mjrYeah well. You can run framebuffer apps on it -> you can run X in it.
20:05.35XorA|gonelast I looked Xqt even ran rootless
20:05.56*** join/#openmoko darius12 (n=darius12@87.203.66.144)
20:06.08XorA|goneso it just opened qtopia (thingiyes that look like windows) for each X window
20:06.28mjrokay, that's good for it then
20:06.38mjrbetter than I expected, granted
20:06.55wurp2XorA|gone: Woohoo, thanks
20:06.57ljpzedstar_: can't comment on that. :)
20:07.09XorA|gonehttp://xqt.sourceforge.jp/
20:07.10wurp2XorA|gone: I'm glad to hear someone knows what's wrong and has a notion of fixing it
20:07.59*** join/#openmoko zerghase (n=zerghase@dslb-088-065-143-194.pools.arcor-ip.net)
20:08.03wurp2XorA|gone: So you think it updated my local bitbake, and then no postinst ran after that?
20:08.14wurp2for any of my new/upgraded opkgs
20:08.37zedstar_ljp: can't they just replace the symbian part while they are at it as well !
20:08.42XorA|gonewurp2: no, the build machine will have been running the busted bitbake for a while, so I suspect the packages are busted, I shall analyse tomorrow
20:09.12wurp2ah
20:09.14ljpzedstar_: maybe. but doubtful.
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20:10.04zedstar_wow they really gonna flog that Psion OS to death!
20:10.16XorA|gonewas quite fond of Xqt on the zaurus
20:10.32ljpwishes someone would port xqt to qt4
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20:11.07XorA|goneljp: certainly turn peoples ideas upside down :-)
20:11.23ljp:) true
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20:12.00XorA|gonehttp://wiki.debian.org/PocketWorkstationXQT heh heh
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20:12.51ljpi need a creative friday project, maybe i should port xqt
20:13.36XorA|gonecan barely code C++ so no point me doing it
20:13.44ljpits really too bad Sharp didnt support Zaurus very well, or update it at all
20:14.20XorA|goneljp: its got to be the most overpowered mobile dictionary in history
20:14.31XorA|goneljp: so much potential wasted by sharp
20:14.41ljpagreed
20:14.57ljpall my Z's are just gathering dust
20:15.42XorA|goneI sold my C860, still need to sell C3200
20:15.49XorA|goneprobably keep 5500 for old times sake
20:16.20ljpi still have my two 5000d's . let my son play with them
20:16.26zedstar_i have a c1000 which i dug out to try poky but it needs some lovin
20:16.47XorA|goneloves the n810 now
20:16.47ljpbut all the z's at work are thick with dust
20:17.13zedstar_agrees about n810
20:17.21zedstar_it is only gadget i use
20:17.25ljpn810 is ok, the keyboard sucks
20:17.39mwesterloves his n800 - best $200 he ever spent.
20:17.41zedstar_better than the iphone on screen one :)
20:17.45mjrmaemo is too proprietaryhappy :þ
20:17.56mwesteryeah, but it works. well.
20:18.21XorA|goneits wierd that the n8x0 has same screen res as my eeePC :-)
20:18.27mwesterwhatever's inside that wifi chip and firmware, it works better than anything else I've got!
20:18.28zedstar_i have to be contacted on skype so the n810 is very handy for that
20:18.29XorA|gonejust wish I had real debian on the n8x0
20:18.49XorA|goneskype leaks in everywhere
20:18.56mjrskybah
20:19.01XorA|goneI guess there is a qtopia version as well :-D
20:19.14zedstar_i dont like using it but lets me work at home
20:20.23zedstar_i can even BS i am home by responding to text messages on it while out
20:20.36zedstar_connected via GSM to phone
20:21.01ljphas a skypephone from 3
20:21.41ljpsoon to have an E90
20:21.49Sketchmwester: i love my zaurus, but i'm not sure it's the best $500 i ever spent ;)
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20:22.29zedstar_the costs of being a gadget geek!!!
20:22.35Sketchif it had a built in phone, it probably would be
20:23.04zedstar_i still love the clam shell form factor of the zaurus
20:23.11ljpSketch: get a gsm cf card
20:23.32XorA|goneRTM-8000 works well on zaurus
20:23.55Sketchljp: i have a bluetooth CF card, and a 3G phone with BT...requires 2 pockets though ;)
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20:24.26XorA|gonewell if its a CXX00 zaurus, use a usb 3G modem :-)
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20:47.37CIA-44openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r6c573d489811 10/packages/efl1/evas_cvs.bb: [evas] Bump the PR because the config changed
20:47.38CIA-44openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r983eba6df660 10/packages/efl1/evas_cvs.bb: Merge commit '6c573d4' into org.openmoko.asu.dev
20:50.21CIA-44openmoko: 03raster 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r92c06719534c 10/packages/efl1/evas_cvs.bb: fix evas build to disable threads, and clean up formatting
20:50.21CIA-44openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.stable * r12c34620d922 10/packages/efl1/evas_cvs.bb: [evas] Bump the PR because the config changed
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21:15.52CVirusfuck .. no 3G for GTA03
21:16.25joschfuck .. no VGA for GTA03
21:16.27doc|worknot a massive surprise
21:16.35doc|workon 3g
21:16.56doc|workdoes anyone here have any contacts in an arm cpu company? :)
21:16.58cb22josch: hmm?
21:17.16woglindedoc?
21:17.23CVirusI wonder what for
21:17.31mjrjosch, do you know something we don't or are you jumping to conclusions on raster's incoherence? :]
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21:17.37joschIT WORKS!!!
21:17.46joschsquashfs-lzma on the neo!!
21:17.56doc|workwoglinde: was a joke, so someone can get someone of their arse to offer better cpus so there can be both vga *and* ooohshineh!ness
21:17.56spydonwhat is that? ^^
21:18.36joschmjr, i'm just jumping to conclusions ^^ - no  rly want to make sure that we as the community stay together in wanting VGA
21:19.21joschis there anybody preferring bling over vga resolution??
21:19.33josch(except raster)
21:19.56doc|workyeah, I was kind of wondering, is raster not the management mentioned? :)
21:20.40joschfic-gta01:~/sqlzma# lsmod | grep squashfs
21:20.40joschsquashfs               40300  0
21:20.43josch<= great
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21:27.13pjzdoc|work: I know a guy who does linux stuff at freescale
21:27.15wurp2josch: How much compression are you getting from squashfs?  Are you using it on the flash, or just sd right now?
21:27.35wurp2josch: Or is it too early to answer those questions?
21:27.43doc|workpjz: can he get some words in the right ears and ask them for better processors? :)
21:27.58joschwurp2, of course not
21:28.07joschi get 22% compression ratio
21:28.10pjzdoc|work: hh, I doubt it.  He has an uphill battle getting them to integrate their code properly into mainline
21:28.11doc|workpjz: maybe tell them that this could be to phones what the ibm pc was to hobby computers?  :)
21:28.25doc|workshame :/
21:28.37pjzdoc|work: oh, he's a convert, no doubt, though iirc he said something about the openmoko folk not playing too nicely with the uboot guys
21:28.45doc|workhmm
21:29.28pjzdoc|work: not prepping their patches proeprtly, touching a bunch of cruft, doing patch drops based on 6mo old trees - the usual stuff that happens when corps try to do opensource
21:29.34pjzdoc|work: which I kind of figured openmoko wouldn't do
21:30.11wurp2pjz: Those things sound pretty much unavoidable for anyone not integrated into a culture trying to do patches for code in that culture
21:30.21wurp2pjz: Especially when doing them under a time crunch
21:30.24pjzdoc|work: re: vga, has anyone treid a USB VGA dongle on a GTA02
21:30.53pjzdoc|work: perhaps
21:32.09SpeedEvilVGA thingies only work on USB2
21:32.11SpeedEvilAIUI
21:32.27doc|workalso, is there another usb port?
21:32.38doc|workor are you talking about video out?
21:33.06pjzdoc|work: I meant video out
21:33.13doc|workif the system can't handle vga on the device, it won't be able to handle tv out :/
21:33.19doc|work(not at a decent fps)
21:33.32pjzSpeedEvil: oic, thx
21:33.48doc|worktv output is higher res than 320x240 or whatever, although it could be scaled
21:33.50SpeedEvildoc|home: there are two USB devices. One is host, and connected to teh bluetooth.
21:34.02SpeedEvilOne is host/device, and is connected to the port.
21:34.28doc|workSpeedEvil: yeah, I thought he meant to get around some device limit, but if it's tv out then it's not a problem as he'll only be using the one anyway and could work with the y cable
21:34.36doc|workafaik
21:39.26joschFilesystem size 13815.73 Kbytes (13.49 Mbytes)
21:39.26josch18.45% of uncompressed filesystem size (74867.21 Kbytes)
21:39.26joschInode table size 126932 bytes (123.96 Kbytes)
21:39.26josch19.85% of uncompressed inode table size (639411 bytes)
21:39.26joschDirectory table size 131259 bytes (128.18 Kbytes)
21:39.27josch31.01% of uncompressed directory table size (423294 bytes)
21:39.32joschwurp2, impressed? ;)
21:41.12wurp2wow, yes!
21:41.27wurp2I thought your 22% was 22% off full size, not 22% *of* full size
21:41.30joschi think it was worth the last month of effort ;)
21:41.38joschlolol
21:41.44joschyou underestimate lzma
21:41.49joschgzip is at 35%
21:41.59wurp2It depends on the content distribution
21:42.05wurp2as I know you know
21:42.12joschi only ditribute wikipedia
21:42.25wurp2Oh!  So that compression is on wikipedia
21:42.34joschyou dont know mokopedia??
21:42.37wurp2I do
21:42.43joschit is brewing around since last year
21:42.45wurp2But you were talking about squashfs earlier
21:43.00joschand finally it gets out of being a hackish something
21:43.07wurp2So I thought you were talking about the compression on your rootfs
21:43.08joschi can also compress the english one now
21:43.20joschthis demo compression was from linux kernel source
21:43.24wurp2I need to try mokopedia once I get my neo functional again :-)
21:43.46joschgetting mokopedia running is no big deal apart from squashfs ;)
21:43.51wurp2josch: Yeah, but I'll bet it's not nearly as good in the more realistic situation of compression ratio on a standard rootfs
21:44.17joschwhy would you want to compress a rootfs??
21:44.31wurp2Because the space is small...
21:44.46joschsquashfs is readonly
21:44.50wurp2People can't install asu on gta01 because the rootfs is too big, last I heard
21:44.54joschthis it why it can be so small
21:45.05wurp2You mean the binary?
21:45.13joschsquashfs is for readonly media like cdrom
21:45.17wurp2Because for compression it shouldn't matter if it's read only
21:45.28joschno the squashfs filesystem is readonly
21:45.45wurp2I meant, you mean why the binary is so small
21:45.53wurp2or you mean why the compressed data is so small
21:46.19joschthe compressed data can be so small because it doesnt care about possible data added later
21:46.37wurp2It wouldn't take very much extra space to let it care
21:46.53joschthis is what filesystems like jffs2 are for
21:47.06wurp2devote 4 bytes in every 500 to possibly point to an extension off somewhere else on disk
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21:48.11mjr...overlay filesystem...
21:48.31joschthis would make more sense
21:49.44wurp2My point was not the best way to implement it
21:50.00wurp2My point was to refute the notion that it being a read-only fs is what made it compress well
21:51.03wurp2Not that that's important, except in that you could create a compressed fs that could be used for the rootfs
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21:52.59joschnow did the first reading benchmarks
21:53.01joschreal0m0.121s
21:53.28joschfor a 24K file, which is a normal wikipedia article
21:55.40wurp2Anyway, the only reason I brought up the idea of compressing the rootfs is because I though that's what you're doing
21:55.50wurp2For which 22% of original size is friggin amazing
21:56.07wurp222% of original size on wikipedia is impressive, but not friggin amazing :-)
21:56.33wurp2read speeds very very nice, too
21:56.49joschright, because squashfs restrains you to 1MB blocks - would be better compression with larger blocks
21:57.27joschi decomressed 135MB squashfs-lzma in 57seconds
21:57.35joschis this amazing?
21:58.02cb22[eee]on the neo?
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21:58.23joschwhere else????
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21:58.46cb22[eee]josch, O-o, that seems rather fast
21:59.14joschhehe
21:59.21joschlzma is known for being fast
21:59.23wurp2I would expect lzma to almost decompress as fast as the disk read/write ops could go
21:59.31joschit's slower than gzip but faster than bzip2
21:59.32wurp2but it's very nice that it's actually doing that :-)
21:59.33cb22[eee]josch, especially compared to bz2
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21:59.47cb22[eee]i actually did quite a bit of testing with that once
22:00.07cb22[eee]got pcbsd to switch from bzip to lzma :) sped up the install by like 4-5 minutes
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22:00.18wurp2Hmm, it kind of surprises me that speed difference is notable in any of the cases, compared to r/w speeds
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22:00.33wurp2cpus are *fast*
22:02.15joschoh and btw
22:02.28joschi'm searching for someone doing the english wikipedia dump for me
22:02.36joschwould take three weeks on my box
22:02.47joschthe more cores the better
22:03.57wurp2Are there less aggressive compression settings?  And do they make that much difference in final size?
22:04.21josch?
22:04.29joschwhat settings?
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22:11.06wurp2josch: Can you not make it less aggressive in finding the most effective letter subsequences to replace?
22:11.33joschyou mean making lzma compression faster?
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22:11.36wurp2yeah
22:12.01joschthe lzma compression takes only 1/8 of the whole compression time
22:12.16wurp2so there are other compressions after the lzma?
22:12.26joschof course
22:12.31wurp2Or do you just mean there are other things that happen than just the lzma number crunching?
22:12.37joschbut feore not after
22:12.44wurp2why "of course"?
22:13.13joschbecause wikipipedia pages are a lot redundant
22:13.23joschone can remove a lot without destroying anything
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22:13.35cb22[eee]set a huge dictionary size
22:13.41joschno
22:14.01joschthis is impossible since the filesystem bloxksize is limited to 1MB
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22:14.12joschmore would only increase the decompression time
22:14.12cb22[eee]oh right
22:14.40wurp2well, lzma is reducing redundancy too (compression by definition...)
22:14.43wurp2but I see what you mean
22:14.56wurp2redundancy that you can trim out by more obvious means
22:15.12cb22[eee]there was this one compressing fs that i remember, it would somehow reference parts of the blocks to each other
22:15.25joschfor example removing the header and footer of each xhtml page seems quite obvious
22:15.53wurp2:-)
22:16.01*** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at)
22:16.53joschone can then remove script tags, title attributes, html comments, unnessecary spaces...
22:17.22joschthis cleaning is done by a xslt script
22:17.27joschthe rly slow part
22:17.32joschis the php generating the xhtml
22:17.52wurp2You mean the page load from wikipedia?
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22:18.08joschadding the xslt adds (as my benchmarks tell me) only up to 6 hours of compression time
22:18.21joschwurp2, you mean what?
22:18.45wurp2"the php generating the xhtml" == the time to load the page from wikipedia?
22:18.53wurp2Or are you generating on your local machine?
22:19.14wurp2from some magic copy of the wikipedia raw data that I was unaware was avialable?
22:19.56cb22[eee]aren't there raw snapshots somewhere?
22:20.00joschlololol
22:20.06joschloading from wikipedia??
22:20.10joschthis would be insane
22:20.15joschleeching is evil!!
22:20.40joschwikipedia provides xml snapshots of its databaes
22:20.50joschi import this into a local mediawiki install
22:21.06joschand then dump the stuff to optimized (stripped down) xhtml files
22:21.48cb22[eee]josch, what machine you running this on?
22:22.18wurp2Wouldn't it make more sense to write an xslt that goes against the raw xml db and generates your target, stripped, pages to compress?
22:22.21joschathlon x2 3600
22:22.35joschwurp2, no
22:22.39wurp2it is insane to render via php then send that thru xslt when the source is xml
22:22.42joschthe xml is around pure wikitext
22:22.44cb22[eee]josch, pffft, you should have an octocore there
22:22.46wurp2ah
22:22.59wurp2so it couldn't be xslt, or at least not good xslt
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22:24.44joschwurp2, xslt can only process xml - the php is there to deal with the wikitext
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22:24.56wurp2josch: xslt can only process xml *well*
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22:25.04GNUtoohello, i've just seen that http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2008#Targeted_SELinux_Policy_For_OpenMoko , and you use flash memory... can selinux attributes be deployed on flash ?
22:25.14joschwurp2, right
22:25.59GNUtoos/deployed/used
22:26.40wurp2GNUtoo: the physical medium shouldn't matter...
22:27.00wurp2GNUtoo: I don't know anything about selinux attributes, but it should be at a filesystem level or higher
22:27.13wurp2GNUtoo: But someone would have to port that stuff over
22:27.20GNUtoowurp2, so you don't use filesystem such as jffs2?
22:27.37wurp2GNUtoo: And since right now the OM comes with the root password hard set to the empty string, I think selinux is the least of your worries
22:27.43wurp2GNUtoo: It does...
22:27.51wurp2Hmm, maybe I'm crazy
22:28.04wurp2You're right
22:28.32mjrselinux security context labels and stuff are in extended attributes
22:28.35mjrdon't know if jffs does them
22:28.45wurp2The fs is specific to the hw because the hw has weird characteristics (limited # of writes)
22:29.35mjrseems like EAs are being talked about for jffs3
22:29.39GNUtoowurp2, from wikipedia: There has been work on other distributions such as Familiar, but some of this was ceased due to technical reasons (the Familiar work was abandoned when SELinux needed extended attributes which were not supported in the JFFS2 filesystem). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security-Enhanced_Linux
22:29.47wurp2GNUtoo: But first you would want someone to fix it so every Tom, Dick & Harry with any kind of shell/ssh/whatever access to your device can't login in as root w/ no password
22:30.06GNUtoowurp2, ok
22:30.13wurp2GNUtoo: Thanks.  I recognize now that I was being crazy :-)
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22:30.50GNUtoowurp2, but it will be possible to change the root password no?
22:30.53wurp2GNUtoo: It still seems to me the right solution for flash woulda been to build a fs that can be the baseline for another fs
22:31.04wurp2GNUtoo: I have read that it is deeper than that
22:31.20GNUtoounionfs?
22:31.21wurp2GNUtoo: I haven't actually tried on my box, but I've read that people tried to change the root pwd and had some issue
22:31.31GNUtoowurp2, ok
22:31.43GNUtoosuch as?
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22:32.00wurp2GNUtoo: Sorry dunno
22:32.07GNUtoowurp2, ok np
22:32.15wurp2Searching the openmoko-devl or community-request ml may turn something up
22:32.20mjra spesific flash filesystem can be smarter on a flash than a generic filesystem on a load balancer
22:33.08wurp2GNUtoo: I wasn't thinking like unionfs; I was thinking that the part of the fs that tells how to write data to the medium should be separate from the part that decides what metadata goes with your files/inodes
22:33.21GNUtoook
22:33.45wurp2mjr: I can see that it would be easier to make it smart
22:34.01wurp2mjr: It just surprises me that it's enough of a difference to be worth the trade-off
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22:35.08mjrnot that simple load balancers and generic fses aren't being used everywhere anyway...
22:37.12wurp2Later, guys!  Congrats, josch, on the squashfs work!
22:37.30joschwurp2, cb22[eee] you can check out what i documented so far here: http://mokopedia.mister-muffin.de
22:37.33joschwurp2|away, noo
22:37.34josch:D
22:37.55cb22[eee]has a random thought wave
22:38.10cb22[eee]a nice openmoko manager gui
22:38.24cb22[eee]like itunes, but way cooler :)
22:38.43Basherisounds awesome
22:38.53joschwhat the hell is itunes??
22:39.02joscham i in the wrong channel?
22:39.08cb22[eee]josch, just wondering with mokopedia...
22:39.20joschxplain plox
22:39.21cb22[eee]is storing html files the most efficent way?
22:39.23doc|workjosch: it takes your music, converts it into some drm apple format, then kills you with it
22:39.27doc|worklots of fun
22:39.46doc|workcb22[eee]: as in a remote management thingy?
22:39.51cb22[eee]doc|work, kindof
22:40.02cb22[eee]what i'm thinking of is something modularish
22:40.04joschcb22[eee], whats your question?
22:40.13cb22[eee]<cb22[eee]> is storing html files the most efficent way?
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22:40.57cb22[eee]like for transferring music / videos / wikipedia / gps maps / anything to your phone
22:41.14cb22[eee]through lots of different ways: wifi, bluetooth, usb or even gprs
22:41.21joschcb22[eee], yeah i hope it does so
22:41.29doc|workoh yeah, cool, good idea, given we don't have usb mass storage
22:42.54cb22[eee]and what could happen, is the phone presents a small fs as mass storage, which contain the usb ethernet drivers for windows, and the management software
22:43.09cb22[eee](which would be written in python :)
22:43.12doc|workkitchen sink
22:43.30cb22[eee]doc|work, hmm?
22:44.00doc|workyou left out the kitchen sink :)
22:44.19cb22[eee]ah, maybe kitchen sinK :p
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22:45.28LionKMPis there a charger for the moko included in the purchase?
22:46.20CIA-44openmoko: 03zecke * rf8c0ff5def18 10/BUGS.x11: [bugs] Start discussing the open bugs with myself
22:46.20CIA-44openmoko: 03zecke * rce5311a7aea6 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qtopiaapplication.cpp: [lifecycle] move the lifecycle definition after the QtopiaApplicationData declaration
22:46.21CIA-44openmoko: 03zecke * rb715886545dc 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qtopiaapplication.cpp: [lifecycle] Prepare the code for changes
22:46.22CIA-44openmoko: 03zecke * r749d05be2eed 10/ (BUGS.x11 src/libraries/qtopia/qtopiaapplication.cpp): [lifecycle] Do not quit before we have processed QCOP application data
22:46.24CIA-44openmoko: 03zecke * rea66d89b6c09 10/BUGS.x11: [bugs] Document the dbmigratetask performance annoyance
22:46.27CIA-44openmoko: 03zecke * r8e9a4d7fcab9 10/BUGS.x11: [bugs] Callhistory is not updated when the addressbook changes
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22:47.38doc|work:)
22:48.06joschcb22[eee], if you have further questions plz read http://mokopedia.mister-muffin.de/ - I'm going to bed now. if anything is not answered there msg me and i will answer tomorrow
22:48.14joschgoodnight mokos!
22:49.06doc|worknight
22:49.07cb22[eee]night josch
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23:17.44CIA-44openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rbdf536164542 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: [srcrev] Upgrade ninja to get the Green bar selected animator
23:17.45CIA-44openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rcd847be2bcc8 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [srcrev] Upgrade assassin to get animation changes
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