IRC log for #openmoko on 20080604

00:01.32hollabut you think that with so many pushing for open source, human capital ( as opposed to financial capital) would be limitless, no?
00:01.51SpeedEvilNo.
00:01.59holladang.  why not?
00:02.22SpeedEvilIf there is no communication as to what's being done internally, then the assumption is that it is being done internally.
00:02.30SpeedEvilFor whatever 'it' is.
00:02.37hollatrue.
00:03.20SpeedEvilThis isn't helped by the habit of huge chunks of UI apparantly changing due to huge blobs of code dropped from the sky with no notice of upcoming changes.
00:03.22hollaand the reason for that is so the 'competitors' don't get wind of what's going on, or maybe an attempt to go closed source, be bought out, and make money ?
00:03.39SpeedEvilWell...
00:03.43SpeedEvilAs I understand it.
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00:04.08SpeedEvil(I have no connection to OM - other than as an interested developer)
00:04.20SpeedEvilFIC makes lots and lots of phones.
00:04.37hollalook at the cddb (spelling?) database... they got bought out by sony for 240 million
00:04.56SpeedEvilHowever, they are either quite simple or use OSs bought from other vendors, or are produced as the
00:05.16SpeedEvilas demaded by large cellphone firms who then resell them.
00:05.42SpeedEvilThere is no OS that FIC can just put on a featurephone and have it sold without huge licensing fees.
00:05.58SpeedEvilOpenMoko is what someones been able to interest FIC in sponsoring.
00:06.15SpeedEvilSo they are throwing a comparatively tiny amount of money at the problem.
00:06.54SpeedEvilThe eventual goal is that FIC can play on an even playing field with Nokia, et al. Selling phones directly to end-users, and obtaining all the profit.
00:07.03SpeedEvilOr at least more directly.
00:07.18ljpactually openmoko used to be FIC. they were spun off, from what I understand
00:07.44SpeedEvilAs I understand it, they are stiull funded by FIC
00:07.56SpeedEvilI could be wrong though, it's not an area I've looked into in detail
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02:49.46daMaestrohttp://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/05/run-enlightenment-on-your-cell-phone-no.html
02:52.45summatusmentisdo they tell us why they hate linux?
02:53.57daMaestroyeah, i've been reading it
02:54.53daMaestrothey seem to not like olpc (using linux at least)
02:55.11daMaestrothe pokes at RMS are a sad thing to see
02:55.31summatusmentisis it serious? or is it just angry satire?
02:57.21daMaestroi'm not sure
03:00.43kdean06The fact that they laud Qt makes me think it's written in earnest.
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03:01.48summatusmentiswhy would anyone waste their time on that?
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03:02.42kdean06summatusmentis, Because some people's lives are so meaningless that they only feel better by convincing themselves they're smarter.
03:03.14summatusmentis:-/
03:03.22kdean06Yep.
03:10.53daMaestrohttp://juankprada.livejournal.com/6996.html is where i found it (via the fedora planet) as i read it throughout the day
03:11.16daMaestrothe linuxhaters blog has kept me busy during my downtime on the bus today
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03:44.58erpoAre the mass-produced handsets referred to at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates still "developer preview" models or are they the real deal?
03:47.22kdean06The developer preview models simply means "released before mass market".
03:48.01kdean06The devices are identical to the ones that will be mass marketed, with the possible exception of a minor (insignifigant) change.
03:48.02erpokdean06: Last time I looked into the specs, the web site said the developer preview models lacked WiFi.
03:48.10SpeedEvilnope
03:48.16kdean06The one I have has Wifi. :P
03:48.37summatusmentisoh brag about it some more :)
03:48.39kdean06The Neo1973 didn't have Wifi, but those aren't on the market and they're ALL developer preview,
03:48.54kdean06But the Freerunner does have Wifi, including the "developer preview" models.
03:52.12daMaestrois confused
03:52.28mwesteris dazed
03:52.32kdean06is me
03:52.41daMaestrokdean06, what is the minor, yet insignificant, change?
03:53.08kdean06daMaestro, IIRC, there was discussion of adding a resistor to the LED or something.
03:53.28daMaestrowhich would achieve better power usage?
03:53.30kdean06To improve battery life with hardware rather than a potential software-side tweak.
03:54.14daMaestrook, as long as there would also be an option to implement it with software; i'll still be getting the current release
03:54.35daMaestroi really, really want to get rid of my blackberry
03:54.41kdean06He he
03:55.08kdean06The fade in and out is enough for me to drool over the Freerunner. I really hope that manages to make it onto the GTA01. :P
03:55.13daMaestrothough, i think the pearl will have to stay for a few month and i'll have to replace my razr first
03:55.33erpoIs the freerunner ready for everyday use? How's the battery life?
03:55.38kdean06I flushed my RAZR when I got a 1973.
03:55.55daMaestroi never got the 1973 to reliably make/take calls
03:56.03daMaestrothe sound quality was.. umm.. very poor
03:56.10mwester:o   That's not a "green" thing to do, kdean06 ! :p
03:56.21kdean06erpo, I've never let it sit longer than 12 hours uncharged but over 12 hours when it suspends.
03:56.25daMaestrobut then again, i only tried snapshots once a month or less
03:56.42erpokdean06: Does it still ring on incoming calls when it's suspended?
03:57.32kdean06erpo, That's hard to say, there's two software stacks ish. I've not tested incoming calls on the Freerunner yet, because the one stack that works is discontinued and the one that doesn't work is being hacked on. :P
03:58.01kdean06I know that when I last tested, wake-on-call was half working, in that it would wake, but go all zombie mode.
03:58.18erpokdean06: I think that answers my question. Thanks. :)
03:58.29daMaestrokdean06, have you gotten the asu to run on the 1973?
03:58.30kdean06But again, I've not really tested that on the Freerunner, so it might be signifigantly better.
03:58.44kdean06daMaestro, If you can say it runs, yes.
03:59.06daMaestroyeah... it got it to boot... but that was about it
03:59.18kdean06The buildhost images have snapshots for 01, but it's not functional on either the 01 or the 02, not really.
03:59.38kdean06It's VERY basic right now. Pre-pre-pre alpha.
03:59.56kdean06Like... Any warning that you could get that would actually make you wonder if you wanted to use it... Pre that.
03:59.59mwesterASU on the gta01 has some "troubles" for me.
04:00.12kdean06mwester, Booting or running apps?
04:00.36daMaestroneeds to sleep
04:00.40kdean06I've gotten past booting to the app selection screen, but none of the apps launch, though this is the same on the freerunner.
04:00.49mwesterThe old image did wake and ring, and work -- with the correct patches to the kernel.  I'm rather dissapointed that the old image was abandoned for the GTA01 since we were very close to a working phone.
04:00.50kdean06So I assume they're just broken. :P
04:01.00mwesterkdean06:  running apps.  I have no audio, for example.
04:01.18kdean06Yeah, no audio on 02 with ASU either.
04:01.37mwesterSome apps run, some don't, there's a qtopia popup that warns me that my battery is dying every few seconds...
04:01.42kdean06ASU just sucks, it's device independant. :)
04:01.48mwester:D
04:01.50kdean06Yeah... That too. :)
04:02.25kdean06But I'm well aware it's being poked at. I'm personally excited about what the ASU could be, but it's nothing amazing at all right now, which is why I've not reviewed anythinkg.
04:02.54kdean06"Well, Diversity has a raster worldmap... But... that's about it. You can drag it..."
04:03.00kdean06Doesn't make for exciting reading. :)
04:03.50mwesterI watch the CIA bot on the channel closely to see when interesting things get committed.
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04:53.26aggtrfradneo 1973 gt01 sold on ebay for 240$
04:53.49aggtrfradi guess noone expectes freerunner to be out soon :p
05:00.30DaemonaxIt's always delayed. :-(
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06:10.35Atul#join cpp
06:10.44Atul#cpp
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06:25.12Speedy2Hey all
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06:34.14CIA-43openmoko: 03jeremy * r4472 10/developers/jeremy/maniac/src/ (maniac.c mouse_event.c mouse_event.h):
06:34.14CIA-43openmoko: 2008-06-04 Jeremy Chang <jeremy@openmoko.com>
06:34.15CIA-43openmoko:  * Add Double_Click command in test.
06:34.27AtulHi I was trying compile gtk code in moko build Environment but it wont find gtk.h header file why so ?
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07:02.59Hopscotchgood morning
07:05.15mas_storrwhen i make openmoko image i got a error while compiling a package:gmp-native*. I get the msg <NOTE:preferred version 2.6.1 of glibc not available> when i begin the build process. this has anything to do with the error i encountered?
07:07.29doc|homeso, have nvidia mentioned anything about this tegra's open/closed ness?
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07:22.08thomasghow can I enter numbers in the illume (ASU) virtual keyboard?
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07:28.40mas_storrMy system conf is:Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.21-2950.fc8xen #1 SMP Tue Oct 23 12:24:34 EDT 2007 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux   (1GB ram). How long ll take for me to build the openmoko image. Currently my build process has completed (262/6244) in 1.30 hours...
07:29.29mas_storrCurrently my build process has completed 262/6244 tasks (in 1.30 hours)...
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08:01.16CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * rc83ae6aa9b6e 10/odeviced/src/plugin.vala: Ensure modules are never unloaded
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08:16.15ScaredyCatmwester: I haven't abandoned the 'old' image
08:17.30ScaredyCat... were your patches added to the build or did they just smile and nod ?
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09:33.15CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r96c54b678cfa 10/odeviced/src/service.vala: reintroduction enable field. If absent load all plugins
09:33.15CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r191475e3fe5e 10/odeviced/plugins/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Support for per-plugin configuration
09:33.16CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * ra337b218eb3c 10/odeviced/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Dbus object paths for the plugins set according to the configuration file
09:33.16CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r1f9f220276f9 10/odeviced/docs/PLUGINS.txt: Update docs
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09:44.11CIA-43openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * r2602fe5e3fa6 10/packages/ipkg-utils/ (2 files in 2 dirs): ipkg-utils-native_1.6+cvs20050404.bb : rejig patches to renable Size:
09:46.06CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * rdc501529e8da 10/odeviced/src/ (helpers.vala service.vala): Dependencies should now be declared at plugin conf files
09:49.07ScaredyCatoh dear oh dear
09:49.29ScaredyCat(10:47:55)  Nick:  no openmoko at all
09:49.29ScaredyCat(10:48:15)  Nick:  I asked and they said no very dismissively
09:49.46ScaredyCat( FIC stand @ Computex)
09:50.55XorAScaredyCat: well they are seperate companies
09:51.20ScaredyCatfic are the parent arent they?
09:51.42XorAyeah, but AFAIK they only put in money, everything else is serperate
09:52.04ScaredyCatI'd still expect a better attitude
09:52.25XorAFIC is a massive building of which OM are two rooms
09:52.44XorAand I have worked in such places before I would expect a little animosity
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09:54.43ScaredyCatAsus have a cool gps thang
09:54.50ScaredyCathead up display
09:56.44buzanyone came across the small dell notebook?
09:57.31ScaredyCateewwwwww messey
09:57.54buzoh come on, can't be worse than the eee
09:58.04mas_storri building my openmoko image using moke makefile. after the setup i made some changes in the kernel configuration file(builddir/openmoko/trunk/src/target/kernel/conf/defconf ). ll the resulting built image hav those changes?
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10:01.58CIA-43openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.dev * r921084771707 10/packages/xserver-kdrive-common/ (xserver-nodm-init.bb xserver-nodm-init/xserver-nodm): [x11] Make sure to set a HOME and LOGNAME when launching
10:01.59CIA-43openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * rdee895bd8cae 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'org.openmoko.dev' of git+ssh://git@git.openmoko.org/var/cache/git/openmoko into org.openmoko.dev
10:01.59CIA-43openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * rc333af2a100d 10/packages/boost/ (boost_1.33.1.bb files/atomic_count_gcc_atomicity.patch): [boost] better fix for atomicity problem, allows gnash to compile again
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10:19.37CIA-43openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * rc8ab1b23c264 10/packages/packagekit/ (files/03_group_infomation.patch packagekit_git.bb): [packagekit] Add patch to packagekit.
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11:18.23kvkIm trying to update build moko on my system, it is giving this error "cross compile badness" can anyone help me in resolving this error?
11:20.14mas_storrkvk: I m too trying to build moko. I would like to know how long the build process of yours completed before throwing that error?
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11:26.04kvkmas_storr: im sorry, my build is completed but when im trying to execute a sample gtk program then it is giving this error "cross compile badness"
11:30.19mas_storrkvk: how long did it take for you to complete the build process and how much space did it consume?
11:32.15mas_storrkvk: the build which i u were tellin was building the openmoko image. Am i correct? or u were building the sample program?
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11:42.53Atulmas_storr; He is talking about failing his Gtk based program when trying to compile in new moko build environment
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12:33.30tomboy64qtopia phone fails to build with this error: http://rafb.net/p/HRGaUF76.html
12:33.41tomboy64could someone tell me how to fix it?
12:37.28tomboy64i realize i'd have to pass -device ficgta01  to configure somehow
12:37.28*** join/#openmoko tubastian (n=tubastia@tubs.cs.uni-paderborn.de)
12:37.31tomboy64but how?
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12:38.32XorAtomboy64: looks like you have old meta data
12:38.44tomboy64ok, how do i fix that?
12:38.54XorAoh, qtopia-phone, not qtopia-phone-x11
12:39.36XorAhas the same error I fixed in qtopia-phone-x11, gimme a few mins
12:39.37tomboy64i already did "make update-makefile && make setup && make update && make clean-package-qtopia-phone"
12:39.43tomboy64oki
12:42.51CIA-43openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r401d1820720d 10/packages/qtopia-phone/qtopia-phone.inc: [qtopia-phone] fix TARGET_DEVICE in same method as -x11 version
12:42.51XorAtomboy64: do make update
12:42.51XorAtomboy64: then rebuild qtopia-phone
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12:43.12tomboy64i'm on it
12:43.44XorAqtopia-phone hasnt received much love so Ive no idea if it works these days
12:43.55cekayhow does the qtopia phone target decide which bb file it uses?
12:44.21cekaytheres one for 4.3.0 and one for 4.3.1
12:44.28XorAthe latest one
12:45.11cekayusing the timestamps or what?
12:45.45XorAusing the version
12:46.11cekayalright, thanks :)
12:46.48telmichalso wants such a cool CIA-bot, does anyone know how they work?
12:48.31tomboy64thx XorA - looks like it's working now
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12:56.37XorAtomboy64: BTW go make a pizza, qtopia takes hours to compile
12:57.24CIA-43openmoko: 03graeme 07org.openmoko.dev * r8cc5b4bb8b11 10/packages/tasks/task-openmoko-feed.bb: [openmoko-feed] remove midori for now as it doesnt compile
12:57.25tomboy64XorA: btw
12:57.43tomboy64i'm compiling my own image, since i can't get openmoko to run via qemu
12:57.54tomboy64with the pre-compiled ones, that is
12:58.07XorAdoesnt use qemu
12:58.14tomboy64could you lend me a hand as i find mokoMakefile a bit confusing
12:58.19tomboy64meh
12:58.43XorAdoesnt use MokoMakefile either
12:58.49tomboy64bummer
12:58.57Sup3rkiddoXorA, hi, when you meant "git pull", you meant it in openembedded/ right?
12:59.04XorAOE developer since a million years ago
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12:59.11tomboy64:-D
12:59.14tomboy64ok
12:59.14XorASuN: yes
12:59.17XorASup3rkiddo: yes
12:59.26Sup3rkiddoXorA, hmmm...:/...still the same git error
12:59.27XorAhas bitbake built into brain these days
12:59.57XorASup3rkiddo: abraxa fixed it by doing another make makefile-update
12:59.57Sup3rkiddoXorA, i bet your brain computes DEPENDS for egg salad recipes
13:00.05Sup3rkiddoXorA, did the same
13:00.10XorADEPENDS = "eggs salad"
13:00.10Sup3rkiddobut let me do it again
13:00.25XorAI assume something is going wrong switching branches
13:00.39XorAgo into your openembedded directory and do git-branch
13:01.43Sup3rkiddoXorA, oh..ok
13:02.11Sup3rkiddoXorA, aye caramba, should i switch to asu branch?
13:02.26XorAwhat branch are you on?
13:02.55Sup3rkiddoorg.openmoko.dev
13:03.42XorAdo git-checkout -f
13:04.00XorAthen check conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc
13:04.08XorAand see what rev linux-openmoko has
13:04.14Sup3rkiddookie dokie
13:04.52zashwtf
13:05.01zashjag blir nerkopplad'
13:05.23Sup3rkiddoXorA, 6f0356ed149557ca4c80aa4ad857d3c878147581
13:05.50XorASup3rkiddo: so the config file has the right REV in it now
13:05.58XorASup3rkiddo: try a build again
13:06.07Sup3rkiddoXorA, am already on it :P
13:06.19XorAthats obviously why you are Sup3r :-)
13:06.27Sup3rkiddoyay
13:08.52Sup3rkiddoXorA, you might want to take that back :(, still the same error
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13:09.33XorASup3rkiddo: and the error is a different git rev?
13:09.52Sup3rkiddoXorA, lemme pastebin it
13:12.26Sup3rkiddoXorA, http://pastebin.ca/1038599 thanks
13:13.04XorAfatal: Not a git repository
13:13.12XorAthats a different error to abraxas one
13:13.49XorASup3rkiddo: try a rm -rf on sources/git/git.openmoko.org.git.kernel.git/
13:13.54Sup3rkiddooh...i thought he had the same error, :(..silly abraxa......
13:13.59Sup3rkiddoXorA, yeah did that as well
13:14.07Sup3rkiddomaybe its a bad year
13:14.08XorAand all the tar files?
13:14.14Sup3rkiddoXorA, yeah
13:14.27XorAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
13:14.37summatusmentisSup3rkiddo: did you get hardware for SoC?
13:14.48Sup3rkiddo:/...and did a clobber as well
13:14.54Sup3rkiddosummatusmentis, nope not yet :(....
13:15.02XorAis stumped
13:15.14summatusmentishow's your project coming along at least?
13:15.43Sup3rkiddosummatusmentis, its going on well atm since it doesn;t require any special hardware
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13:16.20summatusmentisSup3rkiddo: it will though, at some point, right?
13:16.43Sup3rkiddosummatusmentis, yeah maybe gps, wifi
13:16.47Sup3rkiddogsm
13:17.03Sup3rkiddosummatusmentis, just beginning to shape the service as of now
13:17.23XorASup3rkiddo: Im stumped, and Im not much up on the git fetcher as to why its going crazy
13:17.28Sup3rkiddosummatusmentis, http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=openmoko-gsoc2008.git;a=summary in case you are curious
13:17.39summatusmentisSup3rkiddo: cool!
13:17.42XorASup3rkiddo: I would have though removing the git directory and tarfile would reset it
13:18.04Sup3rkiddoXorA, i agree....fyi there isn't anything under the git directory..its empty
13:18.19Sup3rkiddosummatusmentis, hows yours coming along...i forgot your blog link?
13:18.22XorASup3rkiddo: there should be a .git in there, if not thats why its not a get directory :-)
13:18.25Sup3rkiddos/?/.
13:18.37Sup3rkiddoXorA, oh lol..that exists..i meant the one under sources
13:19.13summatusmentisit's going along well enough, kernel coding is hard :( But yeah, I'm documenting code right now, so that I can learn what it's doing, and re-implement it into gpl/kernel code
13:19.30XorASup3rkiddo: yeah, under .  ..  6f0356ed149557ca4c80aa4ad857d3c878147581  .git
13:19.34XorAthats mine
13:19.54summatusmentisI need to leave, good luck Sup3rkiddo
13:20.01Sup3rkiddosummatusmentis, bye..see you around
13:20.30Sup3rkiddoXorA, clobbering everything under build and sources should have fixed it...isn;t it
13:20.42XorASup3rkiddo: yeah it should have
13:20.46Sup3rkiddo:/
13:21.07XorAis puzzled, this one is totally new to me
13:21.11Sup3rkiddohasn't been successful building using Makefile this entire year
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13:21.38XorAyou on same strange ass file system like reiser?
13:21.50Sup3rkiddoXorA, ok...when some one as experienced as you, is puzzled at something..this always means i am the one screwing up :)
13:21.58Sup3rkiddoXorA, na ext3
13:22.43SpeedEvilSup3rkiddo: I go it to work
13:22.58cekayafter updating with monotone .. does bitbake use the latest kernel source from the git repository to make my kernel-uimage?
13:23.05Sup3rkiddoSpeedEvil, oh
13:23.14Sup3rkiddoi better start from scratch then
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13:23.25SpeedEvil(then it stopped)
13:23.31Sup3rkiddo~fish SpeedEvil
13:23.32aptACTION slaps SpeedEvil around with a large trout
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13:25.08Sup3rkiddoXorA, could you please paste your linux-openmoko_2.6.24+.bb
13:25.28Sup3rkiddobrb..i smell like a pig....
13:25.35Sup3rkiddogoes to take a shower
13:25.47XorASup3rkiddo: its the one in git, Im pretty sure you openmoko git is working, for some reason the git-fetcher in bitbake is stuffing things up
13:26.16Sup3rkiddoXorA, so i reckon i should run it with the debug flags on?
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13:30.44beni_hi
13:30.45AtulHi while compile project based on Gtk+-2.0 gives me this Error any Idea. atmel/moko/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/usr/bin/pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk+-2.0` -lmokogsmd2 -lmokoui2
13:30.45AtulCROSS COMPILE Badness: /usr/include in INCLUDEPATH: /usr/include/gtk-2.0
13:30.45Atulcc1: internal compiler error: in add_path, at c-incpath.c:362"
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13:31.15beni_just wanted to know how the power issues are now
13:31.26beni_are they solved?
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13:34.59Atulhttp://fr.pastebin.ca/1038620 this is my makr file
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13:36.38XorASup3rkiddo: Ive no clue how to procede further
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13:36.56J-23Hi!
13:37.29AtulCA, Any Idea
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13:45.47Sup3rkiddo<PROTECTED>
13:46.09XorASup3rkiddo: no probs, I wish I could have solved it, I will keep thinking
13:46.25Sup3rkiddosure
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14:17.16CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * reb1d275a74ee 10/odeviced/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Remove some redundant lines in plugins and added 'conf' file data member
14:17.20CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * re680ef2a8ddb 10/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Added backlight plugin skeleton
14:17.21CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * ra258fa5ed40d 10/odeviced/plugins/backlight/ (Makefile.am backlight.c backlight.h backlight.vala): Oops..delete build files
14:17.21CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r9a8f99a7c9b9 10/ (8 files in 2 dirs): mv some files around
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14:19.09cumbersHi I have just received my friends openmoko phone, and noticed that after flashing with latest recommended image and then opkg update/upgrade have 3MB left of rootfs! I am trying to install gllin and keep getting a segmentation fault which I assume is due to this low space, any suggestions?
14:19.56XorAcumbers: boot from SD
14:20.12cumbersok will have a go at that, thanks!
14:20.26SpeedEvilcumbers: r
14:20.40SpeedEvilcumbers: work out ho to install stuff not on the main partition
14:20.50SpeedEvilsearch the wiki for ipkg-link
14:21.02cumbersSpeedEvil: great thanks
14:21.09SpeedEvilI mean install on the SD
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14:28.19unknown_lamerdoes anyone know if there is a way to bundle a package with bitbake and have it run postinstall stuff?
14:28.40unknown_lamerclisp has to generate its lisp image on a native device and I see no way to automate builds unless I delay that stage until install :-\
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14:38.54trjHi, I'm trying to get hold of a linux phone I can run qtopia on for a demo. I see that the neo1973 is sold out, is there anyone I can still get hold of one?
14:39.38cumbersSpeedEvil, XorA: I guessed wrong, even installing onto the sd card causes segmentation fault will have to dig deeper
14:39.41trjs/anyone/anywhere/
14:41.25XorAtrj: what part of the UK?
14:47.32trjXorA: South East.
14:47.37SpeedEvilcumbers: how old is your image, and where are you getting gllin from?
14:47.47XorAtrj: too far from me then
14:47.55XorAanyway I have to go catch a bus
14:49.55CIA-43openmoko: 03thomas * r4473 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/ (7 files):
14:49.55CIA-43openmoko: opkg: Consolidate error reporting from opkg_conf_init and ensure return value is
14:49.55CIA-43openmoko:  checked in the appropriate places.
14:49.55CIA-43openmoko: opkg: Add a locking mechanism to prevent two instances of opkg being run at the
14:49.55CIA-43openmoko:  same time.
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14:53.58cumbersSpeedEvil: Got my image from Snapshot_review/2008-04-21 (latest recommended) and then did opkg update/upgrade
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14:54.31cumbersSpeedEvil: got gllin from: http://3rdparty.downloads.openmoko.org/gllin/
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14:55.03cumbersSpeedEvil: Thinking that doing the opkg update/upgrade might not be the best idea....
14:55.41wurp2|awaytrj: ebay, or search the community-request mailing list archives for sellers
14:55.43SpeedEvilHNo
14:58.53ScaredyCatq cumbers
15:01.24SpeedEviljust had a cucumber sandwitch.
15:01.43SpeedEvilOn some lovely sourdough bread, with some nice butter, and just a little salt and pepper.
15:01.45SpeedEvilMmmm.
15:02.56ScaredyCatthought SpeedEvil was just saying he'd had a some with cucumbers
15:03.12ScaredyCats/a some/a 3 some/
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15:11.45CIA-43openmoko: 03thomas * r4474 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/pkg_hash.c: opkg: Convert "multiple packages" message to NOTICE rather than ERROR
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15:34.54CIA-43openmoko: 03thomas * r4475 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/ (libopkg.c libopkg.h opkg_cmd.c opkg_cmd.h opkg_conf.c): opkg: remove unused code
15:35.22ferrichola
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15:38.19cumbersSpeedEvil: Reflashing device back to last recommended (Snapshot_review/2008-04-2) and then installing gllin worked :)
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15:40.02SpeedEvil:)
15:40.08SpeedEvilcumbers: now go and get tangogps
15:40.20CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * ra9acfaf672b4 10/odeviced/ (Makefile.am configure.ac plugins/Makefile.am): add backlight to builds
15:40.21CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r38ca604739df 10/odeviced/plugins/backlight/ (backlight.c backlight.conf backlight.h backlight.vala):
15:40.21CIA-43freesmartphone.org: add get_max_brightness for backlight plugin
15:40.21CIA-43freesmartphone.org: at org.freesmartphone.Deviced.Plugins.Backlight interface
15:40.43SpeedEvilhttp://www.tangogps.org/gps/cat/Download
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15:51.21tomboy64libsdl-mixer fails to build - any ideas? :( http://rafb.net/p/oLrrqw65.html
15:51.37cumbersSpeedyEvil: thanks for the app....now to go out and see if it works!
15:52.15cumbersloving this openmoko, not sure I can give it back to my friend now!
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15:58.57SpeedEvilcum: read the docs - it can be configured to start gpsd wwith a  buttonn.
15:59.07SpeedEvilcum: also - remember to
15:59.08SpeedEviloh
15:59.15Qwelltab is your friend
15:59.27Sonicadvance1haha
15:59.33SpeedEvilNo - that'd have worked - if he hadn't wandered off
16:00.00SpeedEvilQwell: for example, all I need to type is qw: and it does it automagiocally
16:00.11Qwellwell, where's the fun in that?
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16:10.05CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * rbe4d55294e56 10/odeviced/plugins/backlight/ (backlight.c backlight.conf backlight.h backlight.vala): add set_brightness
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16:31.53CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r3ff4d9bf6c20 10/odeviced/conf/odeviced.conf: disabled powercontrol plugin as it doesn't do anything useful
16:31.54CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh * r60b00ba26697 10/odeviced/src/ (helpers.vala service.vala): fixed some warnings
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16:53.58liweihello,any one knows how to start gpsd in gta02?
16:54.18liweiSpeedEvil here?
16:55.14J-23"/etc/init.d/gpsd start" doesn't work?
16:56.27liweithank you ,i forgot it
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17:00.22SpeedEvilI don't know if it's properly setup tot turn the GPS on and read from /dev/ttyS2
17:01.15balrog-kunor even ttyS1
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17:44.19wurp2|awayFYI, running at 200 MHz w/ gps off (and NO activity), gta01 ran for almost exactly 6 hours
17:44.30anrp"running"
17:44.31anrpidle or active?
17:44.33wurp2|awayw/ almost no activity, and gps on, it ran for 4:40
17:44.43anrpdisplay?
17:44.45wurp2|awayno activity = idle
17:44.57wurp2|awaydisplay dimmed as normal
17:45.05anrp..?
17:45.07anrpyou mean off?
17:45.12wurp2|awayIt doesn't turn off
17:45.14wurp2|awayit dims to 0
17:45.20wurp2|awaythere's still bandwidth on the bus
17:45.41wurp2|awayunless you are doing something special (i.e. beyond the normal OM sw distribution)
17:45.53wurp2|awayor unless I'm just horribly mistaken :-)
17:46.30*** part/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
17:46.42Qwellhuh
17:46.44wurp2That's not using suspend
17:47.00Qwellwurp2: I assume that's with gsm on?
17:47.07Qwelland connected, presumably
17:47.11wurp2But it *is* using the release of gsm firmware that goes into deep sleep with long inactivity
17:47.15wurp2Qwell: yes and yes
17:47.47Qwellgsm is a pretty big battery sucker, especially if you've got crappy tower distance
17:48.27wurp2Yeah, but testing phone uptime w/o it seemed almost pointless :-)
17:48.33Qwellnaturally
17:48.41wurp2gps took more power than I expected
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17:48.51Qwellwhat kind of signal did you have during the test?
17:48.57wurp2or possibly, minimal use makes a big difference over light use
17:49.08wurp2on the first test, 2-3 bars through the whole test
17:49.18Qwellso, far from ideal
17:49.33wurp2for the 2nd one, 2-3 bars at first, then moving for 40 minutes, then full for 3 hours
17:49.49QwellI wonder how much difference 2 vs 4 bars makes
17:50.06wurp2I will try to get a test in where I am at work (4 bars) all day during the test
17:50.26wurp2against the same baseline as the 2-3 bar test (same hw active & cpu activity)
17:50.35Qwellwould be interesting.  on my phone, when I'm in like a convention hall, I get about a day.  when i've got a decent signal, it's more like a week
17:51.10wurp2I should also say that checkFastCharge was running that whole time, which wakes for probably 100 ms every 4 seconds
17:51.30wurp2running for all tests
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17:55.19wurp2Also, the same test that gave me 6 hours life w/ CPU at 200 MHz, gave me 5:40 w/ CPU at 266 MHz (the default)
17:55.33wurp2wait, crap, need to check if it was 5:40 or 5:20
17:57.08wurp25:25
17:59.58SpeedEvilthat's display off?
18:00.08wurp2display dimmed to 0
18:00.09wurp2yeah
18:00.21wurp2rather, display doing whatever "dim, don't lock" does
18:02.55CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r9d2c21c57d1e 10/ophoned/ (19 files in 8 dirs): python-ophoned: refactor code and prepare for different modem types, including, but overriding the standard behaviour
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18:07.29wurp2anyway, so if you want to get about 10% more battery life on your OM (if it's mostly idle), set your CPU to 200 MHz
18:09.19joschto compile some modules i need the openmoko kernel headers?
18:09.23josch-?
18:09.28joschwhere to get them?
18:11.21woglindejosh git.openmoko.org
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18:14.05wurp2OK, I have a question for someone w/ knowledge of the gta01 power hw
18:14.19joschwoglinde, i assume i checkout kernel.git to /usr/include/linux then?
18:14.22SpeedEvilSlight
18:14.25wurp2It runs for about 5.5 hours, say, with no activity
18:14.55wurp2At 3500 mWh battery, that's about 640 mW power draw
18:15.10wurp2But it only pulls 500 mA... oh, nm, answered question while formulating :-)
18:15.12SpeedEvilwurp2: some time ago it was not turning off the LCD properly
18:15.17SpeedEvilthe LCD controller
18:15.26woglindejosch dont know if that brakes your host-system
18:15.37SpeedEvilWhich meant that it's still reading the memory at 60M/second and writing that to the LCD
18:15.38wurp2I conflated 500 mA draw on usb w/ 500 mW, obviously not the same thing
18:15.48joschwoglinde, appearently there is no other source of the headers?
18:15.51wurp2SpeedEvil: Oh, I thought that was still the case...
18:16.00SpeedEvilwurp2: I don't know
18:16.06wurp2SpeedEvil: that should be "only" about 60 mW, I thought
18:16.15SpeedEvilwurp2: well...
18:16.19woglindejosh are you trying to build neo 1973/freerunner modules?
18:16.20wurp2agreed it's definitely big enough to need a fix
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18:16.50wurp2but there's still a giant discrepancy between documented power draw and actual, even after accounting for that
18:16.52SpeedEvilwurp2: it means a lot of stuff is active. You've got the memory draw due to it being active, the extra capacitance, ...
18:16.53joschwoglinde, i use debian on openmoko and want to nativly build some modules, yes
18:17.00woglindejosh hm forget what I said you need definitly the openmoko-kernel headrs
18:17.07joschah... debian on neo1973 i mean
18:17.32woglindemeans you need the linux-source
18:17.38woglindeand configure it
18:17.49joschbut not the vanilla source
18:18.08woglindedont know if that will break soemthing
18:18.17joschwhat could it break??
18:20.47CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * rc1160d4c3c19 10/ophoned/ (7 files in 3 dirs): python-ophoned: add skeleton for 'singleline' modem abstraction
18:21.08woglindejosh the build
18:21.55josch? what build?
18:22.05woglindethe build of the module
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18:22.21joschwell if this happens
18:22.25joschi will see soon enough :P
18:22.37woglindethe modules have to know which arch and other options to compile the module properly
18:22.48joschhrm...
18:23.01joschbut the infos are there arent they?
18:23.10woglindeif you know debian so I suggest you know module-assistant right?
18:23.33woglindeso now guess what module-assistant does
18:23.44woglindetry it foer the neo and see how it fails
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18:23.52joschwoglinde, yeah i build with it
18:24.08joschm-a just told me that the headers are missing
18:24.12joschthis is why i asked :P
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18:38.20codeheadzxchas anyone successfully installed tangogps on openmoko?
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18:43.46CIA-43openmoko: 03zecke * rca9415b6bda8 10/src/server/ (4 files in 3 dirs): [profile] Export the profile names, active profile and setting an active proile
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19:07.52wurp2codeheadzxc: I have
19:08.07codeheadzxcsweet
19:08.27codeheadzxcI tried following the instructions online and this is what I got when i ran the final step....
19:08.31SpeedEvilfinishes his latest project.
19:08.35wurp2I prefer navit, except that getting navit running again after each upgrade is a pain
19:08.40codeheadzxcERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for tangogps:
19:08.40codeheadzxc<PROTECTED>
19:08.40SpeedEvilhttp://www.mauve.plus.com/edging.jpg http://www.mauve.plus.com/edging.avi
19:08.53codeheadzxcAre all of these available for openmoko?
19:09.15SpeedEvilcodeheadzxc: it 'jkust worked' for me
19:09.16wurp2SpeedEvil: congratulatinos!
19:09.17codeheadzxcthe final step being ipkg install http://.blah
19:09.28SpeedEvilwurp2: recycled tiles used as edging.
19:09.41codeheadzxchmmm
19:09.57SpeedEvilcodeheadzxc: I actually downloaded the opkg
19:10.08SpeedEvilbut then just opkg install tangogps or whatever worked
19:10.10codeheadzxcoh, okay
19:10.20codeheadzxcwhere did you get opkg?
19:10.21wurp2I think I just did opkg update, opkg install tangogps
19:10.37SpeedEvilcodeheadzxc: if you don't have opkg, yoy;'re uing a very old image.
19:10.47SpeedEvilcodeheadzxc: flash a new one is probably easiest
19:10.53codeheadzxcreally?
19:10.56codeheadzxcI just downloaded it...
19:10.59codeheadzxcweird
19:11.04wurp2codeheadzxc: From where?
19:11.07SpeedEvilwhat date was it?
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19:11.49codeheadzxcOpenMoko-openmoko-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20071121-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2
19:12.03codeheadzxcthat's what I used
19:12.07codeheadzxcI got it from the open moko site
19:12.10SpeedEvilWell...
19:12.19SpeedEvilthe date may be a subtle clue that it's ratehr old :)
19:12.50codeheadzxcOpenMoko-openmoko-devel-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080131-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2        
19:12.57codeheadzxc^ is that the latest?
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19:24.11wurp2codeheadzxc: Nah, the latest are in April & May of this year
19:24.15wurp2sec
19:24.43wurp2Here are the latest releases that Kevin has tested: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:SnapshotReview
19:25.09wurp2I recommend the 4-30, 5-1 or 5-7 images
19:28.11wurp2codeheadzxc: Those numbers between the Snapshot and the fic in your image file names are the snapshot date
19:28.26wurp2In year-month-day format, so the images you're looking at are from Nov 2007 and Jan 2008
19:28.56*** part/#openmoko J-23 (i=aldwulf@a187.net131.okay.pl)
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19:36.09wurp2So has it really been almost a month since we got a new software release?
19:36.38kdean06Technically it's been a month. :P
19:36.45kdean06April -> May -> June
19:40.16codeheadzxcI'm trying to reflash moko, but friggin dfu-util just hangs...
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19:51.50joschwoglinde, i checked out the stable head - do i have to configure something in menuconfig
19:51.51josch?
19:52.46woglindejosh right
19:52.48wurp2kdean06: Your last review was on 5/07, it's now 6/04, so I thought it was only *almost* a month
19:53.11joschwoglinde, it seems you are very into this stuff?
19:53.22kdean06he he
19:53.34kdean06wurp2, There's nothing worth reviewing since then.
19:53.41wurp2codeheadzxc: Do you have the moko in the command line menu, and then you selected USB console or whatever it is?
19:53.46wurp2kdean06: :-(
19:54.09cb22as ASU under some sort of evil nda?
19:54.10kdean06wurp2, The ASU isn't super functional, and even long before the review ended for the 2007.02 line, things got stagnant.
19:54.35kdean06cb22, Not at all, you can install an image of it on a 1973, a Freerunner or Qemu... It just doesn't really DO anything yet.
19:54.50cb22kdean06: except look flashy? :)
19:54.55wurp2kdean06: So the Qtopia part doesn't work?
19:54.57kdean06Not even that, honestly. :)
19:55.23kdean06wurp2, On the buildhost images, and presumably those built by Mokomakefile, no, they're not installed or at least not usable via GUI.
19:55.33wurp2yagh
19:55.38wurp2I thought that was the whole point
19:55.50*** join/#openmoko mibo-cz (n=mibo-cz@ip-89-102-134-143.karneval.cz)
19:55.54kdean06wurp2, The "original" ASU image was hand rolled, and all of the Qtopia stuff worked... But there's some stuff that's depricated too, and it was still installed.
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19:56.49kdean06For isntance a lot of system settings are being rolled into Exposure, so the Qtopia counterparts are removed.
19:57.02kdean06It's a super-duper-pre-alpha.
19:57.15wurp2wurp2: Except you can't tell they're removed because you can't get to Qtopia at all?
19:57.58*** part/#openmoko Tuju (n=tuju@50.157.190.90.sta.estpak.ee)
19:58.07wurp2I kind of expected the sw to go backward slightly with regards to accessing the changed hardware with the FR release, but I didn't expect the rest of the sw to go backward (albeit presumably temporarily)
19:58.22kdean06"Get to Qtopia" is kind of a misconception... It IS Qtopia... But wiht added things.
19:58.54kdean06It's hard to explain. You're familiar with Qtopia, no?
19:59.00wurp2kdean06: Wow, I thought it was OM, with X11 and Qtopia installed too
19:59.00kdean06You know the grid-based launcher?
19:59.02wurp2sort of
19:59.04wurp2I used it a bit
19:59.04wurp2yeah
19:59.09wurp2I much prefer it to the OM launcher
19:59.21wurp2I had Qtopia installed for about a day
19:59.25kdean06That's been replaced, essentially. The thing is, it's buggy. :P
19:59.35wurp2poop
19:59.36kdean06A buggy app launcher means not too much works. :)
19:59.45kdean06wurp2, "The Openmoko Launcher" is what, to you?
19:59.59wurp2The list of programs on the + tab in the home
19:59.59kdean06Are you referring to slide-based Illume selector?
20:00.10wurp2Is it Illume?
20:00.15kdean06Yes.
20:00.24wurp2Then yes, I am
20:00.26kdean06wurp2, that's the taskbar, essentially, not the launcher.
20:00.32*** join/#openmoko merlo_ (n=merlo@151.67.101.140)
20:00.48wurp2What else would you call a launcher in the 2007.02 OM platform?
20:00.59wurp2And I'm not sure I see the difference
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20:01.41kdean06You know where you click "applications" and scroll through the list to launch, say, media player on 2007.02?
20:01.55wurp2Yeah, that's the + tab on the home
20:02.02kdean06OH!
20:02.05kdean06Okay...
20:02.06wurp2The thing I was talking about
20:02.19kdean06I misunderstood that then...
20:02.38kdean06I thought you means the Illume pull down... That has a + on it.. and is selected by clicking Home. :)
20:02.43wurp2It slides (well, scrolls based on a slide touch)
20:02.44wurp2Heh
20:02.49wurp2Sorry, I don't think I've seen that
20:03.02kdean06wurp2, Okay, I understand what you're saying now... Okay. You do or do NOT like that launcher?
20:03.09wurp2I do not like that launcher
20:03.13kdean06Good. :)
20:03.15wurp2Too much real estate devoted to each item
20:03.27wurp2press & hold bringing up title of application, good
20:03.40wurp2always putting title & description of application on 2.8" screen, bad
20:03.40kdean06The ASU has two modes, the Illume slider OR a grid based icon selector like Qtopia's deafult.
20:04.03wurp2OK, cool
20:04.03SpeedEvilI want xstroke full-screen
20:04.10kdean06Illume slider being -> http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/illume-vv-01.avi
20:04.10SpeedEvilfor launching
20:04.14*** join/#openmoko cworth_ (n=cworth@c-76-115-166-133.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
20:04.21wurp2can't view avi at work :-(
20:04.27wurp2but I'll email it to myself
20:04.34SpeedEvilWny not?
20:04.44kdean06Because he's not 1337
20:05.05wurp2'cause they block video
20:05.11SpeedEvilah
20:05.19wurp2they also block IM & IRC
20:05.24ljpSpeedEvil: qtopia has a full screen handwriting input. not sure if asu will use it
20:05.28SpeedEvilBecause all the little worker bees'd sit on youtube all day otehrwise.
20:05.38wurp2but it's less obvious when you access IM & IRC, and I sit in a bullpenny thing :-(
20:05.42summatusmentisright, because youtube uses avi
20:06.45xcasexapparently some twits are trying to run openmoko on the htc tornado/noble/
20:07.00cb22twits?
20:07.27xcasexhttp://www.google.se/search?q=define:twit
20:07.34kdean06Full net is the only net for me.
20:07.48*** part/#openmoko petruss_der_6 (n=peterstu@vpn-146-134.vpn.uni-mannheim.de)
20:07.59wurp2SpeedEvil: So why haven't you ported xstroke
20:09.23*** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@108.84-49-138.nextgentel.com)
20:10.15cb22wurp2: probably becausde he is busy building a nuclear powered UAV with nothing more then a paperclip, some duct tape and a swiss army knife :)
20:12.25SpeedEvilI'm unfortunately limited in waht I can do due to health reasons.
20:12.34SpeedEvilVery limited energy, and too much other stuff to do.
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20:50.07cyrilRomainhi! when running qemu with -M gta01 or with -M gta02fake I only get a black. Any ideas ?
20:50.21cyrilRomains/black/black screen/
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20:52.58cyrilRomainI mean it is possible to emulate the gta02 without the linux-gta02-pseudo.patch ?
20:59.58wurp2cyrilRomain: Sorry, I never run qemu any more
21:00.23cyrilRomainwurp2: because you have a FreeRunner?
21:00.56summatusmentisor at least a neo1973
21:01.13cyrilRomainwurp2: lucky man ;)
21:01.14summatusmentiskdean06: how did you manage to be so lucky to get a freerunner?
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21:01.45kdean06Ummm...
21:01.56kdean06I'm not sure it was luck, exactly. :P
21:01.57cyrilRomainhmm from the wiki there should be no problem running qemu for gta02fake ...
21:01.59kdean06So... Mu. :)
21:03.15*** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z4343.z.pppool.de)
21:03.50summatusmentiskdean06: ok, how did you get one? just being a dev? or do you work for OM?
21:04.02summatusmentisor are you supposed to be a reviewer?
21:04.41*** join/#openmoko dcordes_ (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes)
21:05.18DominusHe happened to bump into it in Mong Kok.
21:05.53kdean06It's mainly for the reviewing, yes. I wrote daily reviews on the 2007.02 software stack and the idea is that I'll continue to do so on the Freerunner and 1973 once the new software stack becomes semi-functional.
21:06.11summatusmentisI see
21:06.16summatusmentisis it cool? :)
21:12.10*** join/#openmoko Kt_ (n=Kirsat@96.243.196.167)
21:17.21wurp2cyrilRomain: Nope, I have a 1973.  I am just too lazy to try out the FR image.
21:18.09ScaredyCathugs om2007.2
21:18.12wurp2And WAY too lazy to try out the gta01 image, since I have the device.
21:18.55wurp2Yeah, ScaredyCat, I haven't heard anything that makes me want to run out & try any image after 2007.2
21:20.36ScaredyCatthe pop down menu thing looks nice on the fr images, but I like om2007.2 layout too
21:20.53wurp2<PROTECTED>
21:20.58wurp2well, the left earpiece did
21:21.41wurp2Does anyone know which kind of 2.5 mm connector it is?
21:22.06wurp2I think Nokia & Motorola are the two main configurations, and I don't remember which it is on the neo
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21:27.55wurp2It's Motorola, in case anyone wonders in the future :-)
21:28.23zashwurp2: and that means?
21:28.31*** join/#openmoko nslu2-log_ (n=nslu2-lo@limax.nslu2-linux.org)
21:28.50zashwurp2: also, document it on the wiki somewhere
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21:29.55wurp2er, it means what I said
21:30.00wurp2and I prefer requests to command voice
21:30.05wurp2and I *got* it from the wiki
21:30.09zashah
21:30.44zashwurp2: do you know what order the connectors on the 2.5mm plug is in?
21:31.35wurp2It's on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_hardware along with the note that Motorola is the thing to ask for that a Radio Shack employee would understand :-)
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21:35.17balrog-kunis there something in the default install to take a screenshot?
21:35.21balrog-kunthat i can run from cmdline
21:35.39*** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.18.30.106)
21:36.03balrog-kunscreenshot of X11 or (even better) the framebuffer
21:36.16SpeedEvilcaT /DEV/FB0 ?
21:36.23zashbalrog-kun: import!
21:36.28kdean06I don't know, honestly. I've seen ASU screenshots, but I don't know how to do them.
21:37.07wurp2SpeedEvil: Does that really work?
21:37.12balrog-kunSpeedEvil: it just hit me when i was pressing enter, that i could do that :p
21:37.13zashimport -window root -delay $µSECONDS $filename
21:37.27wurp2I would think you would need a header telling it what format the pic is...
21:37.29wurp2at least
21:37.44balrog-kunwurp2: it generated a 4MB file, i'll try cat'ing it back into /dev/fb0 once i reboot with a kernel that doesn't kill the Glamo
21:37.48wurp2zash: Cool!
21:37.59balrog-kuntries import now
21:38.43balrog-kunoh, this image lacks import
21:38.56zashimagemagic!
21:39.12zashhowever, i get realy weird images from that
21:39.15wurp2balrog-kun: 4MB sounds very wrong for a 640x480x32 bit image...
21:39.53balrog-kunwurp2: it's the entire video RAM i believe
21:40.03wurp2ah, that makes sense
21:40.35*** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@h196n6c1o1036.bredband.skanova.com)
21:40.49zashgoogles motorola headset pinout
21:40.52zashfinds!
21:40.59wurp2zash: Isn't it on the hw page?
21:41.15zashDOH
21:41.17wurp2They list a set of connectors, and give a link to a mail from the list
21:42.01zashhm
21:42.15zashthat list does not specify what order it is in
21:43.02wurp2nope :-(  I thunk maybe that was in the list email
21:43.05balrog-kunwow, import worked over X forwarding (backwards)
21:43.46balrog-kuni did "ssh -L6002:localhost:6000 neo" and i could run import on my pc to dump the neo X display to a file
21:43.47wurp2I didn't care about the wire order; I just want to know what to tell the salesdrones :-)
21:44.34zashaha, base .... tip
21:44.39zashis tierd
21:44.56balrog-kunand X is actually working even though the framebuffer is dead and still contains the view of the console
21:45.25zashwurp2: this made it clearer: http://pinouts.ru/CellularPhones-A-N/motorola_headset_pinout.shtml
21:45.33balrog-kunbasically the video ram became readonly the moment Glamo crashed
21:45.50zashglamo crashed?
21:45.53zashsounds bad
21:46.07balrog-kunyeah, i'm playing with hw accel
21:46.15balrog-kuni'm doing something wrong apparently
21:46.15zashah
21:46.41wurp2balrog-kun: cool!  I didn't know anyone was playing with that...
21:47.10zashbalrog-kun: I wish you best of luck then.
21:47.31balrog-kunwurp2: i don't know if i'll have any useful results
21:47.40balrog-kunwurp2: but it's a fun chip to hack
21:48.25wurp2we put mickey to sleep
21:48.55wurp2balrog-kun: It'll be way fun if you can get decent video on the FR :-)
21:49.33balrog-kunwurp2: it doesn't look very difficult but the video capabilities are limited :(
21:50.05balrog-kunwurp2: only MPEG4, and max 352x288 at 30fps or 640x480 at 12fps
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21:50.37balrog-kunnobody uses mpeg4 except digital cameras
21:50.45SpeedEvilErr - no.
21:50.59SpeedEvilbalrog-kun: that's assuming no CPU use at all
21:51.18SpeedEvilHalf those FPSs at best.
21:51.42balrog-kunSpeedEvil: you mean i won't get 352x288 at 30fps?
21:51.45balrog-kuni'm pretty sure i will
21:51.50SpeedEvilWell - think of it this way.
21:52.03SpeedEvilGTA01 barely does 25fps at that res
21:52.22SpeedEvilSo the decode is at least a large fraction of 266MHz of CPU
21:52.42SpeedEvilSay it's 50% required CPU to decode video on FR
21:52.53balrog-kunright, because you're reading and writing all these full frames to ram various times while decoding and copying to the framebuffer
21:53.07SpeedEvilthat leaves you with 50% time to write to the GPU
21:53.22SpeedEvilSo a transfer rate of 3.5M/second or so
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21:54.11balrog-kunfor the CPU the cost of decoding an mpeg4 clip is the clip of reading it from the flash into video ram
21:54.21balrog-kuns/clip/cost
21:54.27SpeedEvilUmm.
21:54.39SpeedEvilI know that's very untrue on my PII/300
21:55.03SpeedEvilIt takes a substantial slice of teh CPU, even with no video out
21:55.19igor321does the glamo support mpeg4, it doesn't say so on it's site
21:55.27igor321*its
21:55.50wurp2balrog-kun: Most FR users would be OK with transcoding :-)
21:56.14balrog-kuni might try using the DMA to transfer from NAND to VRAM directly, leaving cpu idle
21:56.38balrog-kunigor321: yes, mpeg4 and h263 are the only supported codecs
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21:56.45balrog-kunthey are very similar
21:56.57balrog-kunit supports both encoding and decoding
21:56.57cyrilRomainhmm black screen in qemu is when I run qemu from outside the chroot in which I have my openmoko devel environment
21:57.28SpeedEvilSelected video codec: [ffodivx] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg MPEG-4)
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21:57.47igor321we'll i don't beliveve we'll see the day of hardware mpeg4 decoding since gta03 will have no glamo, so there's really no incentive to write usable drivers
21:57.51SpeedEvilIt seems to want about 17% of CPU
21:58.01SpeedEvil(with no video output)
21:58.23SpeedEvilThat's on a PII/300, with MMX
21:58.43cyrilRomainbut when I copy all the file outside the chroot (keeping the path) and then run qemu, I get something displayed
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21:59.21balrog-kunSpeedEvil: i think that shows it's doable on the Neo
21:59.24balrog-kunif anything
21:59.29balrog-kunigor321: how about for fun
22:00.12wurp2SpeedEvil: Should the video output even matter to cpu usage, if you're using vidcard acceleration?
22:00.20SpeedEvilbalrog-kun: that is _significantly_ faster than the neo
22:00.25igor321balrog-kun: well i guess people would like to do it for fun, but that's gonna be hard since there are no specs and no other drivers to reverse engineer
22:00.29SpeedEvilI'm benching it on the neo no
22:00.38wurp2igor321: For the people who own a FR, I woudl think it's of a lot of interest :-)c
22:00.50SpeedEvilwurp2: no - if the video decoder unit in the GPU is used
22:00.57wurp2Just like sw advances to the gta01 codebase are of interest to me
22:01.07balrog-kunSpeedEvil: well, i don't know, but i'm an optimist as usually
22:01.20balrog-kunSpeedEvil: want to bet?
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22:02.44igor321wurp2: yeah i'd love to have great drivers for the glamo, but since smedia won't ever release the specs, i somehow doubt it
22:03.29SpeedEvilbalrog-kun: I am willing to bet that I'm right - given my assumptions.
22:03.49wurp2igor321: You may well be right; I'm defending the reasons to care, not the likelihood of success :-)
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22:04.41igor321wurp2: well you're preaching to the choir, cause i was deeply dissapointed with the whole glamo thing :)
22:05.03wurp2yeah, me too
22:05.08igor321so i'm getting a FR, but also waiting for the gta03
22:05.26wurp2I got a gta01, and am probably waiting for the 03 for my next one
22:05.57wurp2It depends on the schedule and how the FR sw looks when I get tired of waiting for the new hw :-)
22:06.32igor321yeah, i've been waiting for FR for far far too long :)
22:06.51SpeedEvilOk - on the neo
22:06.52SpeedEvilVIDEO:  [FMP4]  320x240  24bpp  1000000 fps    508 kbps (  62 kbyte/s)
22:07.05SpeedEvil<PROTECTED>
22:07.12SpeedEvilreal    0m 21.29s
22:07.28SpeedEvil(it's really 25fps)
22:07.57SpeedEviland that's with no sound
22:08.17SpeedEvilTGhis is however an old player
22:08.18SpeedEvilMPlayer dev-SVN-r24016-4.2.1 (C) 2000-2007 MPlayer Team
22:09.02SpeedEvilBut still - it shows that FR can probably barely decode mpeg4 320*240*25fps - if this player is representative of the real CPU capabilities.
22:09.40SpeedEvilIt certainly does not have 70 or 80% of the CPU time idle for it to push pixels over the GPU
22:09.50spydonhow do they manage to do this on all the crappy phones then? :P
22:09.58SpeedEvilHardware acceleration.
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22:10.10wurp2SpeedEvil: which is what the glamo provides, no?
22:10.15SpeedEvilIn theory.
22:10.19igor321not likely
22:10.22SpeedEvilHowever - there are no docs.
22:10.39SpeedEvilWe are left to either hope that someone at OM releases a driver that supports it.
22:10.45SpeedEvilSomeone reverse engineers it.
22:10.45wurp2I thought the whole point of this conversation is that balrog-kun is talking about what he can do if he gets hw acceleration working
22:10.48balrog-kunSpeedEvil: it gains tons of time when it doesn't have to decode, and the amount of data to transfer to the VRAM is the size of the file
22:10.50SpeedEvilOr someone leaks the docs.
22:11.19SpeedEvilbalrog-kun: Oh I completely agree. If you can simply throw the video stream at the glamo and have it decode it, it all works just fine.
22:11.45SpeedEvilbalrog-kun: As I understood it, there was no way to do this though.
22:11.50balrog-kunSpeedEvil: well, you have to demux the audio from video, but that's pretty much all you have to do
22:11.53balrog-kunplus decode audio
22:12.08balrog-kunactually the Glamo also decodes mp3, but i'm not going to implement that
22:12.29SpeedEvilbalrog-kun: Oh - you have docs?
22:12.37SpeedEvilmissed that.
22:13.00balrog-kunSpeedEvil: no, i have the code from SMedia and the some code written by Harald (which is much more readable)
22:13.20SpeedEvilbalrog-kun: Ah - which implements the mpeg4 bit?
22:13.33balrog-kunand a permission from Harald and olv to release it under GPL
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22:13.39SpeedEvilI assume it's designed to do mp3 decode to an external ADC?
22:13.43SpeedEvilOooh nice.
22:13.45balrog-kunSpeedEvil: not really, but there's enough information i thinkk
22:14.12igor321but you're working on it? mpeg4, specifically?
22:14.12SpeedEvilwishes for a accel chip that could do scatter-gather from the SD
22:14.25SpeedEvilIgnore all of the above then.
22:14.31SpeedEvilI was assuming you diddn't have docs.
22:14.38balrog-kunigor321: nope, in this moment i'm playing with hardware cursor in the framebuffer
22:14.49SpeedEvilHardware cursor!
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22:14.59SpeedEvilWow - now that's a feature the iphone doesn't have!
22:15.03SpeedEvil:)
22:15.06balrog-kunigor321: i posted a patch to openmoko-kernel today, but it crashes the glamo after a while
22:15.19igor321balrog-kun: how capable is the hardware mpeg4 decoder in glamo?
22:16.02balrog-kunigor321: not very capable :(  and i hoped it would be able to do mpeg1/2 if it does 4 but it's 4 only
22:16.29igor321too bad, no dvb-t then
22:16.33balrog-kunit seems to be designed for a phone with a crappy camera and a tiny screen
22:16.38igor321dammit
22:16.50igor321i was hoping for 640x480 video
22:17.09igor321still, you're work is VERY appreciated
22:17.12balrog-kunigor321: it can do 640x480 at 12fps max
22:17.32igor321i thought that glamo was a lost cause and given up on :)
22:17.55balrog-kunor 352x288 at 30fps, these are the two modes
22:18.12igor321that's some weird pal resolution?
22:18.15balrog-kunor any smaller resolution or lower fps in eithermode
22:18.24wurp2That is the beauty of open source.  If someone smart enough cares enough, not much is a lost cause.
22:18.55igor321sure is :)
22:19.44abraxa_igor321: 1/4th of PAL indeed (aka CIF)
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22:20.50igor321opengl implementation on glamo useless?
22:21.19balrog-kunsince there's a number of clock control registers i wonder if the chip can be overclocked to do higher fps at 640x480 pixels
22:22.33wurp2balrog-kun: Do you know if it can be made to stretch the image?
22:22.49igor321wurp2: i belive it can
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22:23.33balrog-kunwurp2: yes, it can
22:23.40balrog-kunXglamo already implements that and is opensource
22:23.48igor321balrog-kun: how did you get the 12 fps max number? is that from the docs? a know limitation? or from some testing?
22:24.00igor321*known
22:24.10balrog-kunigor321: it's from the specs, yes
22:25.12igor321it would be nice if you could push it to 20 by overclocking, that's completely watchable
22:25.31SpeedEvilIt doesn't matter
22:25.47SpeedEvilI mean - from a watchability perspective
22:25.56balrog-kunigor321: i'm not sure if you can see a difference between 352x288 and 640x480 well at this size screen
22:25.57igor321why so?
22:26.01SpeedEvilyeah - that
22:26.09SpeedEvil140dpi vs 285 dpi on motion video
22:26.13igor321yeah, i guess so :)
22:26.21SpeedEvilyou may barely be able to tell if you're reading very small subtitles
22:26.30SpeedEvilbut otherwise - not really
22:26.42balrog-kunperhaps you can see a difference but it shouldn't be that annoying
22:26.51igor321hardware mpeg4 would be gift enough, no problem how crappy
22:27.05igor321we could always transcode to something optimal
22:27.14igor321thing of the posiblities, mythmoko :)
22:27.23igor321*think
22:27.51SpeedEvilwonders if the chip can be used to do hardware transcoding
22:28.01SpeedEvilActually - no
22:28.15SpeedEvilat best it'd give you a raw video stream to encode
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22:29.12balrog-kunone of the submodules is called RISC
22:29.18balrog-kuni wonder if that's programmable
22:29.25cyrilRomainanyone here know how to run qemu from within a chrooted environment? I can't get rid of 'Could not initialize SDL' even with 'xhost +' or 'xhost + localhost' before chrooting :-/
22:30.00balrog-kuncyrilRomain: does xlcock run in the chroot?
22:30.02balrog-kuncyrilRomain: is your Xserver listening on tcp?
22:30.30SpeedEvilbalrog-kun: your next task - work out how to use the RISC part to read a list of blocks from the SD, and play them.
22:30.31cyrilRomainbalrog-kun: thanks to remind me that tcp listening!
22:30.48SpeedEvilbalrog-kun: thanks for all your work in getting video working! :)
22:31.26balrog-kunSpeedEvil: i've done almost no work yet :p
22:31.45balrog-kunSpeedEvil: but if i completely fail to achieve anything i guess i can just put up the code somewhere
22:32.42balrog-kunthe RISC part is not used by any of the code there exists from SMedia
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22:32.52tomboy64balrog-kun: could you have a look at http://rafb.net/p/Vp48uc84.html ?
22:33.00tomboy64libsdl-mixer fails to build
22:33.01balrog-kunmayeb it could run linux or do matrix multiplication like the NVidia chips :)
22:33.04tomboy64because of my libc
22:33.29tomboy64and i don't quite have a clue on what to do :-/
22:34.14balrog-kuntomboy64: i don't have a clue either :/
22:34.19tomboy64or some other dev happening to know his way with oe?
22:34.21tomboy64meh
22:34.22balrog-kunare you using the binary toolchain that someone posted?
22:34.25tomboy64that sux
22:34.33tomboy64uh, no, mokomakefile
22:34.53tomboy64make openmoko-devel-image
22:34.57woglindetomboy /usr/lib/libc.a: could not read symbols: File format not recognized
22:35.05woglindesdl is somehow rotten in oe
22:35.07tomboy64yes
22:35.11tomboy64doh
22:35.12woglindeand therefore in openmoko too
22:35.23tomboy64so what to do about that?
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22:35.45woglinde-L/usr/lib
22:35.46wurp2good night/day/whatever it is wherever you are, all
22:35.55woglindeline above
22:35.58woglindeis the evil
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22:38.13tomboy64do i have to remove it?
22:38.20*** join/#openmoko lzy-- (n=lzy@59-126-117-54.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
22:41.04*** join/#openmoko Surfer47 (n=javachat@cpe-74-71-143-73.twcny.res.rr.com)
22:41.04Surfer47Visit http://www.FakeMagazineCover.com (upload pic make mag) - http://www.SillyWebcam.com (play with webcam online) - http://www.Is-A-Jerk.com (insulter/anon email) - http://www.ComedySearchEngine.com (fun) - http://www.BodySwitcher.com (put your face on funny body) - http://www.MedChecker.com (health) - http://www.Canuckster.com (Canada eh) - http://www.Nerdful.com (geeks)
22:41.04*** topic/#openmoko by Surfer47 -> -=[ www.WHAK.com ]=- Make Free/Fun Graphics Online At http://www.ImageGenerator.org =)
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22:41.30cyrilRomainbalrog-kun: ok, I even don't need the listen tcp with mount /tmp /mychroot/tmp --bind
22:41.54*** topic/#openmoko by mmontour -> No, Freerunner is not out yet. Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates . | ASU means April Software Update and is coming soon.
22:42.14tomboy64:-|
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22:43.11woglindetomboy seems so you have to patch it
22:43.26tomboy64and what am i looking for?
22:43.34SpeedEvilOops.
22:43.43cyrilRomaintomboy64: probably in a configure.in or Makefile.am/in file
22:43.54woglindeI am trying it myself at the moment
22:43.56tomboy64ok
22:44.02woglindehave to wait 20 minutes or so
22:44.06SpeedEviljust checked the last topics.
22:44.07tomboy64kk
22:44.11woglindethen I can tell you
22:44.24woglindeRunning task 382 of 783
22:44.49woglindehm maybee I has should use sdl-fb
22:44.53woglindehad
22:45.13tomboy64mhmmm
22:45.25tomboy64.am and .in don't contain anything like it :-/
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22:54.24duffydhi can someone plz point me at the online gallery that shows what's included in the freerunner box?
22:54.39duffydseems to have deleted the email :(
22:56.33duffydfound it :)
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22:58.16tomboy64monochromementality?
22:59.28tomboy64lol
22:59.35Qwellthat word hurt my brain
22:59.57Qwells/me//
23:00.33tomboy64hands Qwell a wooden hammer
23:00.36tomboy64http://monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Day-One-Openmoko-Freerunner.html
23:00.53tomboy64(in case you're not subscribed to the community ml
23:00.55tomboy64)
23:01.27kdean06Qwell, Two words. :)
23:01.33kdean06Monochrome. Mentality. :)
23:16.56tomboy64woglinde: are you having a look into it? or should i wait till tomorrow?
23:17.19woglindehm yes
23:17.25woglindebut libsdl-x11 is failing too
23:17.32cyrilRomaintomboy64, woglinde: libsdl-mixer built fine here with oe repository (but files are the same in OM repository)
23:17.34woglindebut I am using cutting edge soft
23:17.42woglindelike automake 1.10
23:18.14tomboy64automake 1.10.1 here
23:19.29woglindeshure you om build automake 1.10
23:19.32woglindeI bet not
23:19.41tomboy64:-D
23:19.44tomboy64how would i check?
23:20.01woglindeoetmp/work/i686
23:20.10tomboy64nope, uses 1.9
23:20.13woglindewhereever om-majefile puts that
23:20.15tomboy64according to config.log
23:20.18woglindeas I said
23:20.53summatusmentishas anyone tried putting OpenMoko on the Zaurus?
23:23.12tomboy64mhmmm
23:23.14woglindesummatusmentis should work
23:23.18tomboy64i feel like an analphabet
23:23.29woglindebut I dont know what you want with a dialer on the zaurus
23:23.31woglindeokay
23:23.39woglindesdl needs autotools anyway
23:23.46woglindebut I will go to sleep now
23:24.01tomboy64any hints on what to look for?
23:24.28tomboy64otherwise, good night and sleep well
23:24.38woglindeLDFLAGS
23:25.10tomboy64ok
23:25.12tomboy64thanks
23:25.14tomboy64nightnight
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