IRC log for #openmoko on 20080529

00:00.28rwhitbyyes, and you need to set the right git branch too
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00:01.28Zwiseliah ok, org.openmoko.april-update
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00:09.19rwhitbyactually, there is a new branch name now I think
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00:11.54CVirusIsn't there anyway that the FreeRunner can work as a wireless antenna or something ?
00:12.01CViruslike amplify the wireless signal
00:12.46DominusIt'd be the most expensive, poorest performing consumer wireless repeater available.
00:12.57DominusBUt I guess you could hack it up/
00:15.28SpeedEvilSeamless GSM/wifi - move out of range, and it drops back to cellular relay
00:15.40SpeedEvilOf course, there is the whole glaciality thing.
00:16.00CVirushmm
00:21.54CViruswhen will the online shop open ffs
00:22.14SpeedEvil<PROTECTED>
00:30.00CVirusnp: God, His Son and Holy Whore - Amon Amarth
00:30.03CVirus:-p
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00:34.04nezza-_-|zZzZmhh couldn't sleep so i decided to play a little bit with gimp:
00:34.05nezza-_-|zZzZhttp://img252.imageshack.us/img252/2480/gelbesschildlinuxyz8.gif
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01:27.09daMaestroOpenmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080524-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2  still has no icons :-/
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01:33.35SpeedEvil:/
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01:46.53wurp2nezza-_-: Warning, this is running Linux?
01:47.14nezza-_-wurp2: mh warning, FREE running penguins ;)
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03:08.50brian_yeeee haaaa
03:09.03brian_the masses
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04:11.02cdbot2* * OM Bug 1433 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com
04:11.03cdbot2* * packagekit get updates failed
04:11.04cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1433
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04:33.57*** topic/#openmoko is No, Freerunner is not out yet. Official updates at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates . | ASU means April Software Update and is coming soon
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04:34.14CVirusbrian_: huh ?
04:34.48CMLots of people in the channel maybe :)
04:35.08CVirushehe
04:35.12linuxxrmassive production
04:35.27CViruswhat about mass production ?
04:35.28linuxxrlinux to the masses
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04:45.00holycowhallo
04:45.22holycowso when might we be able to purchase mokos? soonish yes?
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04:56.51CMOk, anyone got a hint why bitbake can't find my bitbake.conf?
04:56.53CMhttp://pastie.caboo.se/205220
04:57.39CMI haven't change any of the config files (only kept the sources dir)
05:00.57mmontourCM: you have a typo in your BBPATH (extra "i" after "openembedded")
05:02.18rasterno purchasing
05:02.20rasterev er!
05:02.25rasterMUAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
05:02.46CMmmontour: Argh.. Thanks
05:02.47ljpdoes that mean the neo is going to be free?
05:02.54daMaestro;-)
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05:03.06daMaestroit already is free
05:04.07ljpthe hardware isnt
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05:05.03rasterljp: no - we are just going to put it in a perspex display case and tempt you with it
05:05.06rasterand make you drool
05:05.08rasterbut refuse to sell it
05:05.09raster:)
05:05.15holycowi can has moko?
05:05.43ljpraster: too late. i already have a few on my desk
05:06.35rasterljp: bastard! give 'em back! we need to put them in perspex cases for tempting!
05:06.38raster:)
05:06.56rwhitbykeeps a tight grip on his gta02 too.
05:07.11holycowdamnit
05:07.24CMwants it.. My preciousss
05:07.24rasterthreatens to turn on the global gta02 self-destruct signal
05:07.46holycowall your mokos are belong to us!
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05:08.15ljpraster: sorry, mine are having driver and hardware issues with that signal
05:09.21rwhitbyraster: mine has the battery out for charging, so it's not gonna blow today
05:09.52rasterljp: the reason we took so long with the freerunner is that we do have a fail-safe self-destruct
05:09.58rasterwe secretly spent all our time in making that work
05:10.09rasterinstead of bothering with any of the rest of the hardware
05:10.11rasteror drivers
05:10.11raster:)
05:10.18rwhitbyor apps ;-)
05:10.23ljpdoh
05:10.27rasterrwhitby: our super-secret self-destruct system reauires no battery
05:10.30rastermuahhahahahahahah!
05:10.55rwhitbyrewires the battery-less power source for the self-destruct to power the phone instead ...
05:11.06rasterhahahahah
05:11.18rasterthe aura of steve is protectign you
05:11.29rasterwe have yet to figure out how to penetrate the apple glow
05:11.40rwhitbyand connects the secret power amplifier and antenna used for remote activation of the self destruct to make it a quad band ...
05:12.08rasterbah
05:12.12rasterhow do i resolve a conflict'
05:12.22rwhitbymtn or git?
05:12.28rwhitby(or people?)
05:12.38rastergeeeet
05:12.54rasterwith people i just use a trout.
05:13.30rasteraah
05:13.45rastergit-mergetool
05:15.27rasterhmm
05:15.36rasterhow do i just fecth a missing file from the upsteram repo
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05:17.33rohhm.. pull? i mean.. then its local, but not neccessary checked out, right?
05:18.34rastergit-pull git://git.openmoko.org/git/openmoko.git org.openmoko.asu.dev
05:18.34rasterfatal: Entry 'conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc' would be overwritten by merge. Cannot merge.
05:18.34rasterMerge with strategy recursive failed.
05:18.48rasteri dont even have the file
05:18.56rasteri just want to pull the upstream one back in
05:19.14rastercvs/svn update wou8ld do that
05:19.14ljpwhy dont you have that file.. hmmm??
05:19.15rasternormally
05:19.22rasterljp: merge comflict
05:19.25rasteri merged the confloict
05:19.27rastersaved
05:19.30rastergit-pulled again
05:19.32rasterbit bitched
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05:19.35rastergit bitched
05:19.43rasteri went "fuck it" and just want he upstream
05:19.43ljpbit gitched
05:19.45rasterso i deleted it
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05:20.00rasterbut git dont want to pull me a new copy
05:20.13rohrevert and pull?
05:20.40rohrevert kills llocal changes to the repo afaik
05:20.52rohlocal as in changed files, contents.
05:21.08rasterummmm
05:21.13rasterusage: git-revert [options] <commit-ish>
05:21.15rasterwhats commit-ish
05:21.19rasteri never committed any changes
05:21.26rasteri simply merged locally
05:22.32rohi think it means 'same params as git-commit' and thus 'file or path'
05:22.51rastergit-revert conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc
05:22.51rasterfatal: Cannot find 'conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc'
05:22.54rasterdefinitely nto a file
05:23.02rohmmmmh
05:23.21rasterkicks git
05:23.28rasterall i want.. is a missing file back that was deleted
05:23.35rasterhow hard does it have to be!
05:23.35mmontourraster: try "git checkout <file>"
05:23.36raster:(
05:23.52rasteraha!
05:23.54rasterthat does it
05:23.58rasterhjave to checkotu a specific file
05:23.59rastertnx!
05:24.24rasterwtf
05:24.44mmontourI was in a similar situation a few days ago (still mostly a git n00b)
05:24.52rastergit-pull git://git.openmoko.org/git/openmoko.git org.openmoko.asu.dev
05:24.52rasterfatal: Entry 'conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc' would be overwritten by merge. Cannot merge.
05:24.52rasterMerge with strategy recursive failed.
05:25.37ljpoh now youve done it
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05:27.46rasteryes
05:27.52rasterentry will be ovewritten with merge
05:28.02rasterI WANT YOU TO OVERWRITE IT YOU GALOOT!
05:28.05rastergrrr
05:28.17Sonicadvanceo_o
05:28.21Sonicadvancescoots away
05:29.49ljpgo on.. say crikey
05:29.59rastercrickey!
05:30.26rasterthis little fella just loves to tweak me nipples!
05:30.47rwhitbybloody ripper
05:31.11ljpthere ya go. thats more what I expected
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05:33.00rastergit-please-just-feckin-work-ok-so-i-can-get-on-with-my-work
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05:35.40rasterok
05:35.44rasterhaed top edit the file
05:35.47rastereven tho it had no conflicts
05:35.53rasterrequired the timestamp changes....
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06:16.06CIA-43openmoko: 03john_lee 07org.openmoko.dev * r72d6cd92ebf7 10/packages/meta/meta-toolchain-openmoko.bb: meta-toolchain-openmoko: add native opkg-cl into toolchain. another
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06:26.16Hopscotchgood morning
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06:45.26CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03vesa.pikki * r1956da01ed0c 10/src/ (sim.c sms_impl.h): Cleaned pdu parsing
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06:58.01doc|homeis it just me or does this bear an uncanny resemblance to the freerunner? http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/05/28/helios-ocean-2-exposed/
06:58.17doc|homevisually of course, not capabilities wise
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06:59.25rasterdoc|home:  looks much better
06:59.26raster:)
06:59.32doc|homehah
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07:36.55shoraganhmm, did anyone have problems with opkg refusing to upgrade/install packages with 'Nothing to do'?
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07:46.27tessierSo, anyone testing a new phone off the production line yet? Do they rock or what? :)
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07:48.52BDoThey should !
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08:06.47sounda1gllin is not working..
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08:46.43methrilmorning
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10:26.52aliangreetings.. how can i take out the matchbox from the build?
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10:29.35aliananyone can suggest me how to take out particular packages from the default build?
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10:34.56aliani'm doing some gtk-directfb stuff, but i couldnt get it compile nicely.. some packages not needed as well for my case (ie: matchbox, x11), but i couldn't find any info on how to take out those packages from the build. can anyone give me some directions? appreciates for helps
10:36.44diego_at_workman bitbake
10:37.00diego_at_workthere is an option to create a graph with the dependicies
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10:38.01cdbot2* * OM Bug 1434 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com
10:38.02cdbot2* * packagekit send wrong message when md5 miss match
10:38.04cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1434
10:44.57aliani see..
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10:48.53alianbut i'm not checking the dependencies now, i want to take it out from the build, where can i do it? /openembedded/conf/distro/include/preferred-om-version.inc?
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10:50.49diego_at_workmaybe it compiles X just becouse is required from something else ...
10:51.02diego_at_works/from/by&
10:51.03diego_at_works/from/by/
10:51.13diego_at_work... lol
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10:58.31aliansorry.. i don't get what you mean..
11:01.05diego_at_workwhen you do a bitbake openmoko-devel-image, it reads openmoko-devel-image.bb
11:01.26diego_at_workand looks if it depends on some other package
11:04.55aliani see.. ok, i will try that
11:05.09ScaredyCatsmcibpr
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11:15.48CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03vesa.pikki * rb15cb47b4f49 10/src/ (8 files):
11:15.48CIA-43freesmartphone.org: Only first index of multipart messages are now listed in ListMessages method
11:15.48CIA-43freesmartphone.org: RetrieveMessage now returns multipart messages as a whole
11:15.48CIA-43freesmartphone.org: RetrieveMessage only accepts multipart message's first index
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11:30.06igor321hello everybody
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11:30.22igor321are there already plans for gta03?
11:31.54buzyes
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11:32.28igor321that's really nice
11:32.43igor321are the new features already agreed upon?
11:33.47buzmostly are i believe
11:34.11buzsame as gta02 but no glamo, a cam, edge and a new case
11:34.44igor321is there a replacement for glamo?
11:36.05morriconeno, actually not having glamo is a improvment
11:36.21buzyes
11:36.48igor321yes, in retrospective glamo is sort of a disaster
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11:41.12jOERG_rwnew ts probably - capacitive
11:42.00jOERG_rwjust editing the circuit diagrams :-)
11:42.38CIA-43openmoko: 03thomas * r4458 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (5 files in 2 dirs): opkg: improve opkg_install error reporting and include a check to verify repository signature during install
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11:46.08igor321is capacitive ts "multitouch" compatible?
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11:47.14jOERG_rwno exact spec yet
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11:49.02igor321still, i'm very happy you're already working on gta03, keep up the good work ;)
11:49.30jOERG_rwjust jouned in... just starting
11:49.45jOERG_rws/jouned/joined/
11:51.12jOERG_rwYeah, aming towards a GTA03A2, *not* A6
11:53.25igor321learning from mistakes :)
11:53.47jOERG_rwLOL! not *my* mistakes
11:54.18igor321haha nobody said so ;)
11:55.02jOERG_rwhonestly, we are trying hard to improve QA and proofreading, applying DRC etc...
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11:56.39igor321how many of you are there working on the hardware?
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11:58.06jOERG_rwdunno exactly. quite some guys/girls over in Taipei, and half a dozen developers all ver the world
11:58.23igor321you're not in taiwan?
11:58.36jOERG_rwGermany right now
11:59.21igor321i thougt you were all in taipei...
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12:00.09jOERG_rwNot at all. Andy is in GB, Werner somewhere southamerica...
12:01.49igor321colour me old-fashioned, but i imagined you all playing with the prototypes in taipei :)
12:02.04igor321whatever works i guess :)
12:02.20igor321never designed a product myself so what would i know :)
12:03.26jOERG_rwfor now we ave circuit diagrams to play with. Yea and a few GTA02 to "learn" from, i got with me when i came back 3weeks ago
12:04.34igor321the components list for the gta03 is final, no?
12:05.09summatusmentis...? it is?!?
12:05.16jOERG_rwproduct spec: YES. individual components: not yet
12:05.39summatusmentiswhere do we see the spec? or can we yet?
12:06.03igor321i guess you'd have some troubles finding an open-friendly gpu
12:06.04jOERG_rwNo idea. Ask michel shilo
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12:06.34SpeedEvilGTA03 is the same - pretty much - as GTA02 - with the GPU ripped out
12:06.58igor321so there will be no "replacement" gpu?
12:07.01summatusmentiscompletely gone?
12:07.05jOERG_rwigor321: we got rid of glamo, and don't have a new GPU
12:07.07SpeedEvilAs I understand it.
12:07.19summatusmentisI see... hmm
12:07.32jOERG_rwexactly
12:07.56igor321actually depens... what if glamo proves usefull...
12:08.13igor321someone might write a decent driver?...
12:08.36jOERG_rwWAAAH, glamo spoils half the device. many reasons like bandwidth etc
12:08.37SpeedEvilThere are fundamental hardare programs.
12:08.41SpeedEvilThat can't be overcome.
12:08.54SpeedEvilIt's connected over a 7M/second bus.
12:09.03igor321i'm aware of that
12:09.15SpeedEvilThat has to be bit-banged - so if you ant 50% CPU, you need to treat it as 3.5M/s
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12:09.30igor321but 7M/sec might be enoug if someone we're to fully utilize glamo
12:09.43SpeedEvilIf you need to access the SD too, then it drops to below this.
12:10.02SpeedEvilThe glamo is not a very fully featured accelerator alas.
12:10.15jOERG_rwSD is connected via glamo :-(((
12:10.34igor321yeah, inculding glamo was a bad architectural choice
12:10.43SpeedEvilWell...
12:10.54SpeedEvilIt wouldn't have hurt so bad if DMA had worked
12:11.35igor321so basically, gta03 is gta02 without the glamo, new screen and 3G?
12:11.46SpeedEvilsame screen and everything
12:11.53SpeedEvilsame chipset
12:12.06SpeedEvilGTA04 is the next hardware major refresh AIUI
12:12.18igor321so one could suppose it's coming out soon?
12:12.35igor321i mean, half a year or so?
12:14.03morriconeigor321, don't expect an answer for that question
12:14.54igor321yeah, it would be stupid to announce a new revision weeks before freerunner debut
12:15.18igor321i'm stull buying gta02, and i've got a 10pack group to prove it :)
12:15.21igor321can't wait actually
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12:21.41jOERG_rwI don't tink anybody will or should stop to buy GTA02, just to wait for GTA03 ;-)
12:24.08summatusmentisdoesn't have the money for a GAT02, or the cell coverage to justify it :-/
12:25.26balrog-kuni guess it doesn't matter that gta03 design is similar to gta02
12:25.50balrog-kunthe main value for me is the time between the releases when the little hardware bugs are ironed out
12:26.28summatusmentiswill removing glamo pull some functionality backwards(vid accel)?
12:26.33balrog-kuna re-design introduces new bugs and you restart the cycle and you're chances of making a successful device are low again
12:26.52balrog-kun*your
12:27.25mjrsummatusmentis, some operations backwards, others forwards. Tradeoffs.
12:29.47balrog-kunon the gta04 it will be forward since that new s3c chip has graphics accel on-board already
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12:31.16balrog-kunin terms of opennes it's backwards though
12:31.42summatusmentismjr: right, that's sort of what I assumed
12:32.12mjrbasically what you could do inside the gpu without using the bus will go backwards, others forwards
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13:15.45vvbhey..  i hve a gta01 and when trying to run gllin i get "illegal instraction".. can anyone help me out as to why i get this?
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13:20.52diego_at_workprobably you're trying the wrong version...
13:21.47vvbwrong version of kernel?
13:22.06diego_at_workhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gllin
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13:26.05vvbthis link does not help me tell what am i doing wrong
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13:26.49diego_at_workprobably you are using a old gllin executable on a recent version of openmoko
13:27.34diego_at_workwhich openmoko image are you using, and which version of gllin are you using?
13:28.08vvbi have the same version thats listed in the http://3rdparty.downloads.openmoko.org/gllin/download/?Accept=Accept link
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13:28.17vvbis there a newer version than that?
13:28.37diego_at_work(and check that you have math coprocessor emulation enabled in kernel, if you have compiled a custom one)
13:29.18vvbno.. i have flashed from the pre compiled list
13:29.44vvbis there a way to veryfy that?
13:30.00vvbit has math coprocessor
13:30.39diego_at_workhow do you start gllin?
13:31.02vvb./gllin in the /home/root/gllin/
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13:32.25diego_at_workdo you have the "file" command on your neo?
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13:44.50CIA-43openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.asu.dev * re53e9cf4ffe7 10/conf/distro/include/moko-autorev.inc: [moko-autorev] Set Assassin as AUTOREV
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13:54.43mmontourvvb: To check for math-coprocessor emulation look for "NetWinder Floating Point Emulator" string in dmesg. Also, your /home/root/gllin/gllin should be a shell script (with the actual executable as "gllin.real").
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14:20.06andyfrommkis there a gcc opkg for the neo1973 or freerunner?
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14:24.27balrog-kunprobably
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14:24.38balrog-kunthere was an ipkg once
14:24.55andyfrommkdo you have a url?
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14:26.26balrog-kunlooks up on buildhost
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14:27.36balrog-kunit would be http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/gcc_4.1.2-r12_armv4t.ipk i think
14:28.23andyfrommkthanks balrog-kun
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14:42.11Tanu_å® /wm 2
14:42.14Tanu_argh
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15:15.41piksi<PROTECTED>
15:16.45buzthey want to slashdot themselves
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15:22.04balrog-kunevil conspiracy :)
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16:22.32kdean06Any word on the sometime USB disconnections while the Neo is charging via USB?
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16:23.01SpeedEvilkdean06: works for me
16:23.08abraxa__kdean06: Neo or FR?
16:23.10mjrdoesn't haappen here really
16:23.16kdean06SpeedEvil, Flawlessle everytime?
16:23.23kdean06abraxa__, Both, actually.
16:23.25SpeedEvilkdean06: yes, pretty much
16:23.38kdean06Hrm...
16:23.48kdean06SpeedEvil, What distro are you running on your host systems?
16:24.50kdean06Because I've found that both the Freerunner and the 1973 randomly die now and then on Debian Sid/Experimental and my wife made me aware last night of random USB drops and restarts on Ubuntu Gutsy.
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16:28.11SpeedEvilkdean06: slackware
16:28.15kdean06Hrm.
16:28.37abraxa__kdean06: Wow, your wife uses linux? Congratulations, dude :)
16:28.51kdean06lol
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16:29.40kdean06She's not really admining it herself, I set it up and she just uses it. :)
16:30.26kdean06But she's a big fan of being able to make Clearlooks turn purple. And it's easier for me to deal with that any of the alternatives... I feel so out of place tinkering with Windows. :S
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16:58.17abraxa__Hmm, does anyone have issues compiling openmoko-mediaplayer2?
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16:59.50abraxa__I'd be surprised if not as I'm getting an error regarding AC_PROG_INTLTOOL (though I have no idea why that is an issue now)
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17:01.55wurp2kdean06: I can only think of one occasion that my neo failed to charge properly the whole time it was connected to my Gutsy machine
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17:31.19d3viceg'afternoon
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18:35.01PBeckahoi
18:36.45playya_~seen thos
18:36.46aptthos <i=thomas@nano.thos.me.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko, 32d 5h 13m ago, saying: 'ScaredyCat, such as?'.
18:36.52playya_:'(
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19:02.37abraxa__playya_: Send him a mail?
19:02.48playya_yes
19:03.04playya_but generaly he answers really fast
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19:06.18CIA-43freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r84fd202c433f 10/data/themes/zhone.edc: zhone: disable fading transition effect for now
19:14.04Sup3rkiddomickey|linuxtag, howdy
19:16.45mickey|linuxtagheya
19:17.11mickey|linuxtagsorry for not getting back to ya, but there's hardly network on linuxtag and we're standing 10 hours on the booth every day
19:17.32Sup3rkiddohope its fun!...me got scary things to talk about :P
19:17.46mickey|linuxtagwell, it's stress :)
19:18.20playya_i want to be there too :(
19:18.35Sup3rkiddomickey|linuxtag, hehe, understood...
19:18.37playya_btw. marco did not sent me the promised cards
19:20.53daMaestromickey|linuxtag, hey.. you should go say hello to Jeroen van Meeuwen and Max Spevack at the Fedora booth ;-)
19:21.36daMaestrooh and Paul Frields ...
19:21.38mickey|linuxtagdaMaestro: oki, will do
19:22.04wurp2emdete: Do you have a page that lists the major functionality currently in Zad/Underground?
19:22.18daMaestromickey|linuxtag, i was really wanting to bring a freerunner to FUDCon and get a group of contributors interested in maintaining an OM development stack in Fedora
19:23.06daMaestromickey|linuxtag, you might be able to poke people @ LinuxTag re: devel stack; I already have most everything packaged... just need to update it, get it reviewed, etc
19:23.27emdetewurp2: http://neo1973-germany.de/wiki/Zad ?
19:23.30mickey|linuxtagoh, ok. i'll mention tht
19:24.24wurp2I had seen that, but I didn't see anything that listed what it does now
19:24.52ljpany reason why daily images on buildhost stopped on 25 May?
19:25.00daMaestrobuilds are failing now?
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19:25.33daMaestroiirc, qtopia-x11* or something is currently failing to build
19:25.57daMaestroMay 28 17:53:35 <mmontour>daMaestro: I tried doing an org.openmoko.asu.dev build earlier today, but it failed on qtopia-phone-x11. The ones on buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/... are probably the best ones you'll find (but I haven't tried them)
19:26.17wurp2On http://neo1973-germany.de/wiki/ZadStatus, I see pylgrim (gps), sms, and dialing and muxing
19:26.29wurp2I assume that it does gprs, since that would be the main point of muxing
19:26.44emdetewurp2: ah, i see, it's moving... more or less: news feeds are shown; your mails; osm of you current position; transactions on your bank account; hot or not; power state; network switching usb/gprs;
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19:27.25emdetewurp2: also you can dial (manually remambered number); receive calls; no sms for now
19:27.28wurp2transactions on my bank account?  Hot or not?
19:27.30wurp2;-)
19:27.45wurp2Cool
19:27.57emdeteshure (h.o.n.: http://www.hotornot.de/?check=0)
19:28.21emdetethis is zad's view: http://neo1973-germany.de/wiki/ZadStatus#IstheNeohotOrnot
19:28.24wurp2Some of the things that are missing sound like fairly easy things to code... I might pitch in on some of those
19:28.26mmontourqtopia-phone-x11 from org.openmoko.asu.dev fails to build for GTA01. The bitbake recipe from org.openmoko.dev has some fixes, but last time I tried it there were still problems in do_install()
19:28.56emdetewurp2: yes, i would like to, but i am fighting wth low level stuff. i will get that stable before i start gui again
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19:29.04wurp2Yeah, I agree
19:29.20emdetewurp2: for now i only do gui enhancements when i'm frustrated from low level uglyness ;)
19:29.21wurp2That was NOT a complaint; I was just pleased that there is stuff I could contribute to
19:29.45emdetewurp2: i would really like to see that but i am to slow :/
19:30.04wurp2and enough stuff working that I could maybe switch over from OM builds w/o too much pain
19:30.05emdetewurp2: the dbus-api is still moving and the gui plugin mechanism gets changed too soon
19:30.22emdetewurp2: what are your ideas?
19:30.29wurp2Is there somewhere I can read about the gui  plugin switch?
19:30.39wurp2Well, I would like to put together a media player
19:31.14emdetewurp2: not now. point is: everything is reduced to yes/no/maybe... to fit everything into that it needs some good ideas...
19:31.41wurp2w/ automated detection of when you connect to a broadband network (or maybe just your home network) and tries to get songs you've requested from your main music list
19:31.56emdeteyes, there was a playlist-thing with gstreamer in a earlier release which has gone when i switched completly to py (that vresion was c)
19:31.59wurp2and deletes songs you've already listened to
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19:32.17emdetesyncing... pfew, cool stuff...
19:33.09wurp2What happens if e.g. you just try to opkg install openmoko-terminal?
19:33.31emdetenothing ;) zad runs fullscreen without a wm for now
19:33.39wurp2ah
19:33.55wurp2But I could probably build a python terminal pretty easily
19:34.16emdeteand: it would install nearly 'world' because i stripped the rootfs down to 39% on a gta01
19:34.41wurp2Yeah, I thought that would be the case
19:34.43emdetewurp2: that would be great... as a detail view.. hm. i should get rid of the plugin design soon
19:34.55emdeteit just has to be e...
19:35.19wurp2I dunno anything about e :-)
19:35.27wurp2but, I dunno much about any gui system
19:35.28emdetewurp2: i didn't either
19:35.47wurp2I just hack stuff out in whichever one is appropriate.  I don't do it often enough to really learn one
19:35.53emdeteit's fast and good friends of mine use it.
19:35.58wurp2I do mostly back end work (webservers)
19:36.26emdetewurp2: you would like the zad design. everything is backend. gui is quit dump
19:36.46wurp2I installed Zad for a while and played with it
19:36.57emdeteall functionality is available through dbus, if its hot or not, osm, whatever
19:36.59wurp2pyneod and pyneog seemed very straightforward
19:37.13wurp2dbus is also kick-ass
19:37.13emdeteif you like you just build your gui in... say... days
19:37.52emdetewhat i also did is to keep the api dynamic with maps so you can add params without breaking anything
19:38.12emdetei have the case right now where i need a new param. i just add it and nobody cares
19:38.27emdetenobody but the component that uses it in the futre
19:38.59emdeteif you develop alone you cannot fix everything in one moment so i needed some decopling
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19:40.03wurp2I see
19:40.25wurp2I assume that only applies to direct api; dbus is still standard param list?
19:40.34emdeteno, opposit
19:40.41wurp2the only downside I see to the map thing is documentation
19:40.46emdetedbus uses a{sv}
19:40.49wurp2I see
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19:41.33wurp2What about the dbus interfaces defined standard like ophoned?
19:42.02emdete:D
19:42.15emdeteit is to static for my needs
19:42.30emdetewe had lots of discussion with mickey but he did not like my idea
19:42.54emdeteso we split, i made modules to allow separate api
19:43.08wurp2ah, so the differences are only at the dbus interface layer?
19:43.12wurp2Below that code is shared?
19:44.16emdetethat was the plan.. ask mickey, as far as i know he started a own gsmd with some of the ideas of pygsmd
19:44.41mickey|linuxtagemdete: who is this girl? photoshop or actual neo lover?
19:44.59emdetemickey|linuxtag: sry, gimp :)
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19:46.09mickey|linuxtagah, too bad ;)
19:46.14mickey|linuxtagbut now i'm less envious
19:46.16mickey|linuxtag*g*
19:46.17emdeteyes..
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19:47.19cb22mickey|linuxtag: theres always josch's openmoko camisole
19:47.33mickey|linuxtag*nod*
19:47.40mickey|linuxtagbbiab
19:47.43mickey|linuxtaggrabs dinner
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20:13.26joschcb22, you're kind of persistant arent you? :P
20:14.02joschcb22, enjoy the *real* benefits of the camisole: http://rabenfrost.net/openmoko/mokoelsa.png
20:16.33abraxa_lol.
20:17.17*** join/#openmoko baze_ (n=baze@f051112066.adsl.alicedsl.de)
20:18.30joschabraxa_, you dont know... maybe he likes men more? :D
20:19.43cb22abraxa_ has no room to speak, he is the bdsm slave emo kid after all :p
20:20.10*** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD9539BA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:20.19*** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
20:20.30abraxa_cb22: I'm not emo. :)
20:20.41*** join/#openmoko tushyd (n=Bob@tdayal.student.iastate.edu)
20:21.34cb22runs
20:22.03tushydanyone have any updates on production testing?
20:23.39Blasturtushyd: they had to respin the freerunner, so it has been delayed until late december 2008
20:23.50Blasturgood news is that software will be far more mature upon release
20:24.13tushydseriously? December!
20:24.15tushydman that sucks
20:24.37Blasturi know
20:24.48joschyou have heard wrong
20:24.57joschit's december 2009 instead
20:24.58tushydwhat does "respin mean"
20:24.59josch:P
20:25.27Blasturit means that there are too many showstopperbugs in the hardware, there is no way to work around the bugs
20:25.36daMaestrowaits for someone to call bullshit
20:25.43joschhehe
20:25.47Blasturmore specifically, the graphics components have been deemed too slow
20:25.52Blasturthe performance is simply unacceptable
20:26.13Blasturso they are going to replace it with PowerVR chipset (same as iPhone uses actually)
20:26.14tushydah
20:26.22tushydinteresting
20:26.22joschtushyd, he is joking
20:26.26tushydoh.
20:26.27tushydhaha
20:26.30cb22yeah, and the v8 is getting inculded too
20:26.44joschno actually they want to include a geforce 9800GT
20:26.54tushydha, wouldn't that be nice
20:26.59spydonhehe
20:27.04joschthey only had som trouble porting the nvidia driver to armv4t
20:27.09Blasturit's eitehr PowerVR or a Voodoo 2 card with 3DFX acceleration
20:27.30tushydso december was a joke?
20:27.36wurp2tushyd: It means they are lying to you
20:27.41joschand as you mention powervr - i heard it is about being reverse engineered atm
20:27.42Blasturtushyd: im afraid so :(
20:28.01joschtushyd, its hopefully to be available next month
20:28.04Blasturfreerunner should be out soon, with a slow graphics accelerator
20:28.08tushyddamn I wish I wasn't so gullible
20:28.24Blasturor rather, with insufficient bus bandwidth to the gfx accelerator
20:28.29Qwelltushyd: gullable*
20:28.37wurp2The bandwidth problem to the gfx chip has me considering whether I'm getting FR at all :-(
20:28.50wurp2I have a 1973 already
20:28.56wurp2Qwell: heh
20:29.11Qwellwurp2: :)
20:29.22tushydQwell: You can spell it both ways. Like grey and gray
20:29.30Qwelltushyd: actually, you can't.
20:29.40Qwellyou were right :p  you missed the joke, I think
20:29.56joschi for myself will stick with my gta01 but only because i dont need wlan and the accelerometers
20:29.57tushydhaha
20:30.21tushydoh, so there is a gfx problem?
20:30.29joschslightly
20:30.32wurp2There is a bandwidth prob to the gfx chip
20:30.44wurp2as in, bw to the gfx chip is shared with the sd card
20:30.46joschbut it should be as fast as without acceleration
20:31.03wurp2and is about 1/10th the bw on the 1973 iirc
20:31.14tushydah
20:31.40wurp2It sounded as if getting 320x240 video to work on the FR was probably not going to happen
20:31.57wurp2until someone gets accel working, and no one is working on that or forsees a time when they will
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20:32.08*** part/#openmoko ohin (n=opera@zli1-v-1-166.static.adsl.vol.cz)
20:32.45wurp2josch: The accelerometers looked very cool to me
20:32.46joschindeed
20:32.46wurp2josch: wifi is only 'eh'
20:32.46joschthey are a neat feature
20:32.46tushydseriously? video playback is pretty standard... I can see people not buying the FR for that reason
20:32.58joschtushyd, hardly anybody knows for sure
20:32.59wurp2Mostly I would use wifi at home, and at home I have bluetooth I can use
20:33.05joschthese are just estimations
20:33.18wurp2raster seemed fairly certain... but I would love to see him be wrong
20:33.27joschi myself also heard people that are quite satisfied with the qvga video performance of the freerunner
20:33.38wurp2josch: Are they watching video?
20:33.49joschnamely the iscsi guy
20:33.53wurp2I haven't been able to play video (the sw has been broken) on the 1973 for months
20:34.00joschhe sais we can watch youtube vids just fine
20:34.03wurp2wow
20:34.07wurp2very good news!
20:34.16joschindeed
20:34.24wurp2youtube is about 160x120, though, no?
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20:34.32wurp2not that I really care
20:34.40joschdont know
20:34.42wurp2if it looks OK, that's all that matters to me
20:34.45joschask someone who uses it :P
20:35.33cb22ooh, sweet, looks like freebsd just got per-process routing tables
20:35.42joschwe should also try to not scare people away by saying things like "video isnt working" if we dont know that for sure
20:36.00joschwe need a lot of freerunner to be bought from openmoko
20:36.26joschso it is profitable for all of use to not spread unverified bad stuff
20:36.32josch-not
20:36.42tushydi'm still going to buy it, no doubt
20:36.42wurp2true
20:36.58wurp2I'm very happy with the 1973
20:37.01joschi would buy it too if you give me the money :P
20:37.03cyril__especially when we can see video working with L4 kernel
20:37.14joschyeah L4 is nice
20:37.25wurp2I may or may not get FR, depends on if the sw for one or the other makes my wife happy ;-)
20:37.29joschlets port the hurd to it ^^
20:37.59wurp2Is hurd even done?
20:38.05joschhehe
20:38.06wurp2I dunno nuttin about L4
20:38.15joschL4 is a microkernel
20:38.45wurp2I thought they were writing Duke Nukem Forever for Hurd ;-)
20:38.48joschtheoretically such a kernel should be a bit slow on embedded devices
20:39.11wurp2sure, but how would it affect video, if the issue is bw?
20:39.19joschi'm running a bet which one is out first
20:39.38joschI'm all for the hurd :D
20:39.45AVeeWe should port minux to the freerunner ;)
20:39.57joschokay brb naruto
20:40.47cb22netbsd on freerunner!
20:40.58spydonhave anyone done that? :P
20:41.03cb22yep
20:41.08cb22well, on the neo1973
20:41.11cb22and in qemu
20:41.58AVeeNetBSD will probably port itself automagically, thats what is usually does...
20:43.17cb22i've never used netbsd up until a week ago or so. now i'm running it on my eee and on my shiny new server :)
20:43.28cb22i'm more a freebsd person
20:44.10wurp2AVee: Port itself automagically?
20:44.26AVeeTo be honest, a haven't got around to running either one of them. The old debian server just won't die ;)
20:45.15wurp2I've been perfectly happy w/ Linux
20:45.19AVeewurp2: Sure, it has to be like that, it's the only explanation for their list of supported platforms. Must be magic ;)
20:45.21wurp2Sorry, GNU/Linux ;-)
20:45.46mickey|berlinseen l4 today on a Neo
20:45.48wurp2AVee: :-)
20:45.50mickey|berlindemoed by the master himself, Prof. H.
20:46.07ferricis the l4 geared towards mobile devices?
20:46.07mickey|berlinimpressive technology
20:46.12mickey|berlinnothing useful right now, but impressive nonetheless
20:46.31AVeeYeah, it's really interesting stuff.
20:46.43mickey|berlinferric: depends. it's for minimizing the TCB
20:46.46*** join/#openmoko norro__ (n=norro@p5B28C582.dip.t-dialin.net)
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20:46.52mickey|berlinwhich may be interesting on mobiles
20:46.53mickey|berlinor not
20:47.40ferricah.
20:47.54joschmickey|berlin, präzise wie ein holzhammer :P
20:48.03mickey|berlin:D
20:48.14ferricmickey|berlin: you have an FR?
20:48.36mickey|berlinsome preMP device is sitting next to me, yes.
20:48.53wurp2All the FR pics I've seen still have two speaker grills
20:48.57wurp2Is that the plan for release?
20:49.03mickey|berlinyep. changing that would have been costly
20:49.21mickey|berlinand it's good for symmetrie
20:49.22wurp2yeah, no big deal.  It just threw me off.
20:49.26mickey|berlinfor whatever that's worth :D
20:49.38Qwellthe speakers on the bottom should be moved up :p
20:49.54Qwellbottom/sides
20:50.27mickey|berlin*shrug* many things will be done, once Om actually does its first ID
20:50.34QwellID?
20:50.44mickey|berlinindustrial design
20:50.47Qwellahh
20:50.48mickey|berlincase and stuff
20:50.57mickey|berlinwe inherited this one
20:51.07mickey|berlinso it was "take it or no project"
20:51.08mickey|berlinguess what we did :)
20:51.28mickey|berlinso really all complaints about the case is void
20:51.34mickey|berlinkind of ;)
20:51.34Qwellfair
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20:53.36wurp2wow
20:53.40wurp2I hadn't heard that before
20:53.57cb22mickey|berlin: i hear gta04 is going to look hot :) ?
20:54.04wurp2So no choice about screen formfactor
20:54.22mickey|berlincb22: i have no idea. i sincerely hope so
20:54.25mickey|berlinwurp2: yep
20:54.35mickey|berlinwurp2: actually
20:54.38cb22wow, 6 hours talk time on the free runner
20:54.56mickey|berlin90% of gta01 was already decided upon when Openmoko started
20:54.56mickey|berlindunno whether i should tell that
20:55.02wurp2cb22: 6 hours talk time w/ cpu running full speed
20:55.03mickey|berlinso that's our heritage
20:55.07cb22wurp2: yeah
20:55.12cb22i find that really impressive
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20:55.44cb22correct me if i'm wrong, but the ti handles encoding of the audio, so the cpu only really needs to be on minimal power?
20:56.10cb22like 12mhz or so :)
20:56.29mickey|berlinkind of
20:56.40mickey|berlinso with cpufreq really working, there should be plenty of talk time
20:56.49mickey|berlinalthough the s3c has limits
20:56.57mickey|berlinomap is the clocking wonder
20:57.08wurp2Is anything going on with cpufreq?  I haven't heard anything about it in months
20:57.30wurp2or maybe it's only a month
20:57.46mickey|berlinnot atm.
20:57.52wurp2:-(
20:57.56mickey|berlinone kernel expert on vacation
20:58.01mickey|berlinother one busy with production testing software
20:58.21wurp2oh, I had the impression cesarb was an indie, not employed by OM
20:58.30mickey|berlinoh, for sure
20:58.34cb22anyone know where i could find power info about the cpu?
20:59.36*** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@129.84-49-131.nextgentel.com)
21:00.28wurp2http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management
21:00.34wurp2Of course, it's all about the 01
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21:04.20wurp2based on that page, it seems that having the cpu at 12mhz would add no more than 2 hours to that 6 hour talk time
21:04.54cb222 hours is a lot
21:05.05cb221/3
21:05.32wurp2well, this would add less than 1/5
21:05.44wurp2assuming nothing else is eating power, gsm on a call is 600 mW
21:05.56wurp2cpu idling at 200 MHz is 140 mW
21:06.07wurp2cpu at 12 MHz is 50 mW
21:06.24wurp2So at best, it's a comparison of 740 mW to 650 mW
21:06.45cb22i'm sure that the 2440 would draw more power though?
21:06.53*** join/#openmoko key (n=key@nat/ibm/x-e9062661cc8fe196)
21:07.14wurp2Well, anything that draws the same power in both scenarios makes the ratio worse
21:07.28wurp2Sorry, you're comparing cpus
21:07.32wurp2I agree there
21:08.17wurp2It should be better than the 6hrs * 740 / 650 figure for the 2440
21:08.39wurp2*but*, it will probably be worse than that figure, because that's ignoring any other current draw
21:09.39wurp2Is RAM used much (at all?) during phone calls?
21:10.20wurp2bus power draw is very heavy
21:10.24*** join/#openmoko key (n=key@nat/ibm/x-d59a7607a31b74c2)
21:11.18cb22random question: the freerunner has 2 sets of ram, one 64mb built into the cpu, and one 64mb chip
21:11.27cb22could it be 'turned off'?
21:12.18wurp2that's a cool notion
21:12.30wurp2Is the machine smart enough to prefer the built-in ram?
21:12.43wurp2If you're not talking to the stuff on the bus, there's essentially no power draw from what I can tell
21:13.29wurp2So if it prefers the cpu ram (to the extent of moving memory from the other ram if enough remains free on the cpu ram for a long enough period) you would get the same benefit
21:16.12wurp2SpeedEvil: Do you know off the top of your head the bus speed devoted to keeping the screen updated?
21:19.24abraxa_wurp2: Personally I'd say that worrying about the little energy the external RAM uses is moot with the glamo in place ;)
21:25.52wurp2The bus uses 600 mW if it's on full speed
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21:26.18wurp2I am more worried about the battery usage of the 1973 than FR, too ;-)
21:26.20wurp2at least for now
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21:27.27mmontourI'm no longer worried about the 1973's battery usage - I've given up on it (after getting <24 hours even while suspended)
21:29.19wurp2mmontour: You had the battery go dead in less than 24 hours, suspended?
21:29.48*** part/#openmoko jadams (n=jadams@68.117.153.158)
21:30.03mmontourYes, using one of mwester's kernels. Note that I have old moko1 GSM firmware, which might be part of the problem.
21:30.04wurp2Has anyone talked about what's broken?  'cause something has to be just ignoring the suspend for that to happen, it seems to me
21:30.15wurp2ah, I do have updated firmware
21:30.37wurp2I don't think it had the big power saving update that everyone was talking about 6 months ago, though
21:30.52wurp2afaik, that never came available
21:30.54mmontourThere might have been something else still powered up (GPS, audio, etc) - I didn't investigate at all
21:31.58wurp2I'd actually be fine with 16 hours uptime if I could actually get wake on gsm during that time, and ideally get it to wake and take some gps & cell tower readings every few minutes
21:32.10wurp2hrm, maybe even less than that... I need a car charger
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21:33.12wurp2I just realized that I've been keeping the gps off lately because I was worried about power
21:33.24wurp2but gps is less than 1/16th the power draw of the rest of the system
21:34.17wurp2I'd like to start playing with finding cell towers, building little super-quick apps to let me bookmark & tag places, location based alerts, etc
21:34.57*** join/#openmoko mjr (i=mjrauhal@myntti.helsinki.fi)
21:36.29mmontourRight now I'd settle for good-enough battery life and audio quality to replace my current phone - a Sanyo SCP4000 from around 1999, still on its original battery
21:37.01wurp2it already replaced my previous phone
21:37.13wurp2but it sits on a charger all day at work, and usually as soon as I get home
21:37.21wurp2and I hear complaints about echo :-(
21:37.47mmontourHopefully the future case-redesign will include better audio isolation between the speaker and the mic
21:38.52mmontourAs for charger-all-day - I want the phone to make my life easier. I don't want to have to put in a lot of effort keeping it fed with electrons
21:39.33wurp2I don't consider it a lot of effort
21:39.39wurp2But I understand the sentiment
21:41.06wurp2mmontour: But... I think we are a fairly long way away from the neo making your life easier
21:41.36wurp2The hacker's phone has more bugs than one would see from a polished end-user-oriented phone
21:42.09wurp2I'm having fun hacking on it, more than enough fun to make up for the times when I e.g. have to reboot it because it's forgotten it's supposed to be a cell phone
21:42.23mmontourWell, "easier" in its role as a phone (so I can replace my current one and not have to keep paying for 2 accounts). Hacking is a whole other matter.
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21:46.54wurp2Yeah, I just bit the bullet and moved my sim card right away when I got the phone
21:47.00wurp2mostly that has worked out
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21:47.22wurp2periodically we seem to get a release that loses track of the cell network & doesn't notice, though, so I don't get any calls :-(
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21:48.07mmontourMy old one is CDMA, so it's a bit more work to switch.
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21:48.28wurp2ah
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22:39.06cesarbwurp2: sorry, been busy with work, so I haven't progressed much
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23:06.43abraxa_NOTE: Fetched git_git.openmoko.org.git.kernel.git.tar.gz from tarball stash, skipping checkout
23:06.43abraxa_NOTE: Creating tarball of git repository
23:06.43abraxa_fatal: failed to unpack tree object 3bf4cea81fe7dd81cad6f78019383c93653ba7f6
23:06.55abraxa_Has anyone seen/experienced/solved this issue before?
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