| 00:18.12 | *** join/#openmoko theLichKing (n=ad@131.104.15.61) |
| 00:20.15 | rwhitby | ljp: yeah, I agree that ScaredyCat should get a GTA02 |
| 00:20.34 | rwhitby | XorA|gone, mickey|zzZZzz: ^^ |
| 00:27.59 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@logan.freelock.com) |
| 00:36.18 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@62.135.96.15) |
| 00:37.16 | theLichKing | wow.. they're giving away 10 million dollars for the best application on android |
| 00:37.25 | theLichKing | that's a lot |
| 00:39.28 | Vegar | it's gonna attract a lot of applications too |
| 00:40.07 | theLichKing | sure.. high quality applications too |
| 00:44.14 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e44b94c.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 00:44.19 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z68e5.z.pppool.de) |
| 00:47.06 | Outlander | so android is a competitor to openmoko or android could run on open hardware too? |
| 00:49.10 | theLichKing | i wouldn't say a competitor because openmoko sells phones |
| 00:49.19 | theLichKing | android is just a platform |
| 00:50.02 | theLichKing | but i think you can think of android and the openmoko OS as two linux distributions? |
| 00:52.23 | nab | theLichKing: Its more 2 different APIs |
| 00:52.32 | nab | The linux userspace is very similar I would imagine |
| 00:52.37 | nab | busybox and/or uclibc |
| 00:52.39 | nab | er |
| 00:52.49 | nab | busybox with glibc or uclibc |
| 00:52.51 | SpeedEvil | There are many linux based phones. |
| 00:53.10 | nab | Actually, the anaroid one uses alot of Java stuff for API I believe |
| 00:53.24 | SpeedEvil | OpenMoko is one of the few that are intended to be open-source. |
| 00:53.24 | nab | SpeedEvil: <nod> |
| 00:53.42 | nab | theLichKing: Java usually means closed source on Linux Mobile platforms |
| 00:53.52 | SpeedEvil | Many - the A1200 forex - is a distribution with a small open source core, and lots of closed source actual functional bits. |
| 00:53.58 | nab | Either that or the vendor puts a god-awful hypervisor on it so you can't poke very deep |
| 00:54.33 | CVirus | Android is not fully GPL'ed |
| 00:54.35 | theLichKing | nab: why do they use java and claim it's fully open? |
| 00:54.56 | SpeedEvil | I don't much care if it's java only. |
| 00:55.32 | SpeedEvil | As long as java is fast enough, and I can do arbitrary stuff to the UI with java. |
| 00:55.49 | SpeedEvil | For example, add buttons to, or replace the dialer. |
| 00:58.17 | Outlander | and java means lower battery life because of more compiling |
| 00:58.18 | Outlander | ? |
| 00:58.27 | SpeedEvil | Not inherently. |
| 00:58.34 | SpeedEvil | You can store bytecode |
| 00:58.37 | Outlander | yeah true |
| 00:58.47 | Outlander | but you're still at least half-compiling still? |
| 00:58.59 | Outlander | compared to binary c code,etc |
| 00:59.00 | SpeedEvil | You can even store the compiled bitecode |
| 00:59.04 | Outlander | ah ok neato |
| 00:59.06 | SpeedEvil | bytecode |
| 00:59.27 | Outlander | but you'd have to put more effort into optimising the java option compared to the compiled c option? |
| 00:59.30 | SpeedEvil | Some - as I understand it - have three stages. |
| 01:00.02 | Outlander | but the java code would probably be easier to knock out for the great unwashed masses compared to alternatives? |
| 01:00.06 | SpeedEvil | You've got the java language - which is compiled to bytecode. |
| 01:00.35 | SpeedEvil | then you've got a bytecode->ASM converter, which has both interpreted and compiled parts, that are compiled as it goes |
| 01:00.48 | SpeedEvil | and in some circumstances, those parts can be stored |
| 01:01.03 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes_ (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 01:01.15 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@124-170-255-224.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:07.11 | *** join/#openmoko fenfir_ (n=fenfir@ppp-70-254-33-226.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) |
| 01:08.47 | Outlander | cool |
| 01:09.04 | theLichKing | that's such a hassle |
| 01:09.41 | *** join/#openmoko xcasex (n=rrg@ua-83-227-156-234.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 01:10.35 | rwhitby | So I just heard that new Android SDK releases are now under NDA until hardware is released. Only the contest winners get access to SDK updated. |
| 01:11.18 | SpeedEvil | And the license. |
| 01:11.33 | SpeedEvil | I want to be able to sell software on the platform without paying the phone vendor or the network. |
| 01:11.36 | rwhitby | There is an opportunity for the Openmoko marketing machine to capitalise on that. |
| 01:16.46 | CVirus | I'm glad they invented version control so that I can fallback to an earlier revision when i fuck up my project while drunk |
| 01:16.51 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 01:17.10 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 01:22.03 | *** join/#openmoko guerby_ (n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 01:23.48 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-132-055.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:24.47 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrodf (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26) |
| 01:25.22 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@78-1-116-28.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 01:26.47 | *** join/#openmoko aloril_ (n=aloril@h13393.gprs.dnafinland.fi) |
| 01:33.13 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=charlie@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 01:49.06 | *** join/#openmoko fgau_ (n=fgau@pD9539AFC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:03.25 | *** join/#openmoko jserv--- (n=jserv@59-115-133-226.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 02:04.19 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789_ (n=bmk789@c-98-223-16-230.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 02:11.17 | *** join/#openmoko jserv--- (n=jserv@59-115-133-226.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 02:13.35 | *** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.150.64) |
| 02:14.09 | *** join/#openmoko aloril_ (n=aloril@h134230.gprs.dnafinland.fi) |
| 02:17.16 | *** join/#openmoko slomo_ (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 02:30.29 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 02:47.11 | *** join/#openmoko ndavey (n=neil@pc075650.workstation.griffith.edu.au) |
| 03:08.10 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-210-044.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:09.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1396 has been created by mail(AT)mmontour.net |
| 03:09.02 | cdbot2 | * * openocd-native build failure |
| 03:09.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1396 |
| 03:33.24 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 03:37.05 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=alph@60-241-37-3.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 03:51.12 | *** join/#openmoko batti (n=batti@blfd-4db51511.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 03:52.09 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@wlrsvd-134.njit.edu) |
| 03:54.56 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@wlrsvd-134.njit.edu) |
| 04:28.45 | *** join/#openmoko sindre (n=sindre@ti221110a081-5581.bb.online.no) |
| 04:29.57 | *** join/#openmoko suma (n=root@c-71-196-147-116.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 04:32.30 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 04:34.22 | *** join/#openmoko liberfiasco (n=libervis@89-172-48-254.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 04:43.42 | *** join/#openmoko arndtroide (n=arndt@port-92-196-34-15.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 04:49.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1397 has been created by mail(AT)mmontour.net |
| 04:49.03 | cdbot2 | * * build failures: openmoko-appmanager2 and packagekit want libopkg 0.1.3 |
| 04:49.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1397 |
| 05:00.01 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-251-164.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 05:03.07 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@h-79-136-60-229.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 05:11.20 | *** join/#openmoko fenfir (n=fenfir@ppp-70-254-33-226.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) |
| 05:13.15 | rwhitby | is glad that Kevin Dean has received a GTA02 for his snapshot reviews work |
| 05:19.24 | dcordes | rwhitby: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Dean |
| 05:19.59 | mjr | oh yeah, and I loved him in "Forced Entry" |
| 05:21.03 | rwhitby | dcordes: hehe - I'm talking about http://monochromementality.com/index.php of course :-) |
| 05:21.12 | dcordes | mjr: haha |
| 05:21.27 | dcordes | oh nice boxing |
| 05:22.30 | rwhitby | yeah, it is a nice box - reminds you of jewelry |
| 05:25.19 | dcordes | got to be elegent these days. my htc was boxed in a similar way |
| 05:35.18 | *** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=a@89.1.36.130.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 05:41.48 | *** join/#openmoko jeffdamet1 (n=jeff@dyndsl-080-228-180-014.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 05:50.54 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 05:51.01 | *** part/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 05:51.02 | *** join/#openmoko peter__b (n=biertrin@p5497B95B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:51.19 | *** join/#openmoko patoh (n=patoh@CPE-30-61.dsl.onthenet.net) |
| 05:53.39 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host150-168-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 05:57.35 | *** join/#openmoko Tanuva (n=tanuva@e177237228.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 06:01.41 | *** join/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@HSI-KBW-091-089-001-218.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 06:04.06 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3_ (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 06:10.04 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@62.8.133.125) |
| 06:15.27 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 06:15.30 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F8B9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:22.12 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 06:25.03 | *** join/#openmoko tubastian (n=tubastia@p508CBE1F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:25.39 | nigel_c | <nigel_c> Hmm. Fresh makemokofile build, first boot using qemu: "No space left on device" |
| 06:26.10 | nigel_c | Err scuse the extra name - copying and pasting from when I was disconnected before and didn't realise :\ |
| 06:26.55 | *** join/#openmoko pgssgp (n=pradeep@203.193.154.146) |
| 06:34.08 | *** part/#openmoko exastra (n=go@75.148.80.90) |
| 06:36.30 | *** join/#openmoko trickie_ (n=trickie@basesoft.demon.nl) |
| 06:39.22 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe20dd00-223.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:40.25 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@pub1.heig-vd.ch) |
| 06:45.05 | *** join/#openmoko ccube_ (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 06:51.41 | *** join/#openmoko kwek (n=martijn@188.Red-213-97-48.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 07:00.31 | *** join/#openmoko diego_at_work (i=5960ae7b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-fe890f5707f30c1b) |
| 07:03.23 | *** join/#openmoko tobmaster (n=tobmaste@gw.sinnerschrader.com) |
| 07:05.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1398 has been created by regina_kim(AT)openmoko.com |
| 07:05.03 | cdbot2 | * * Saved tag as same place will be overlap. |
| 07:05.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1398 |
| 07:05.27 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-71-46.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 07:09.08 | *** join/#openmoko Antenagora (n=antenago@147.162.252.190) |
| 07:11.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1399 has been created by regina_kim(AT)openmoko.com |
| 07:11.03 | cdbot2 | * * Battery icon does not change immediately when plug USB or Charger |
| 07:11.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1399 |
| 07:14.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1400 has been created by regina_kim(AT)openmoko.com |
| 07:14.03 | cdbot2 | * * when Plug the USB cable or Charger icon does not changed if Battery is full icon |
| 07:14.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1400 |
| 07:17.20 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=federico@cb22.za.net) |
| 07:18.52 | cb22 | kdean06: nice post :) |
| 07:19.25 | kdean06 | Thanks. |
| 07:20.09 | Kamping_Kaiser | kdean06, hi mate |
| 07:20.19 | kdean06 | O_o |
| 07:20.28 | kdean06 | Wrong room. :D |
| 07:20.32 | kdean06 | How's it goin'? |
| 07:20.52 | Kamping_Kaiser | hehe :) |
| 07:20.55 | cb22 | just wondering, how does it feel, any different to gta01? like if you shake it around, does stuff wobble :) |
| 07:21.02 | Kamping_Kaiser | not bad. yourself? |
| 07:21.25 | kdean06 | cb22, It's actually a bit slower, but that might not be fair since I've not run the same software on both. |
| 07:22.05 | kdean06 | The first installed image was broken, so I installed the ASU and it's different to the point I don't have a way to compare since I've not gotten ASU working on the 01. |
| 07:22.18 | cb22 | i'd imagine that's probably due to the evil glamo :/ and physical construction? |
| 07:23.11 | kdean06 | It feels much the same, honestly with the exception of the SIM and microSD slot being a bit sturdier. |
| 07:24.33 | *** join/#openmoko pradeep_ (n=pradeep@203.193.154.146) |
| 07:26.13 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@vcmsms1.soft.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 07:27.11 | *** join/#openmoko kuzgun (n=deniz@unaffiliated/kuzgun) |
| 07:27.38 | *** join/#openmoko smancke (n=smancke@ip-62-143-122-209.hsi.ish.de) |
| 07:28.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1402 has been created by regina_kim(AT)openmoko.com |
| 07:28.02 | cdbot2 | * * it Makes serious noise when incoming a call or arriving new message during Blank time |
| 07:28.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1402 |
| 07:28.06 | *** join/#openmoko doron (n=Ofek@87.68.77.7.cable.012.net.il) |
| 07:34.39 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@201.82.9.119) |
| 07:35.29 | methril | morning |
| 07:35.42 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK (i=root@82.177.19.205) |
| 07:36.05 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 07:36.44 | *** join/#openmoko patoh (n=patoh@CPE-30-5.dsl.onthenet.net) |
| 07:39.17 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-53-89.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:40.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1403 has been created by regina_kim(AT)openmoko.com |
| 07:40.03 | cdbot2 | * * There is no function to serching the number from contacts on sending screen in Splinter. |
| 07:40.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1403 |
| 07:43.04 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK_ (i=root@82.177.19.205) |
| 07:53.33 | *** join/#openmoko suuuper (n=suuuper@81-208-88-100.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 07:54.18 | *** join/#openmoko smancke (n=smancke@ip-62-143-122-209.hsi.ish.de) |
| 07:59.15 | CIA-43 | openmoko: 03zecke * r35b8fc13f833 10/src/ (12 files in 7 dirs): [timezone] Remove usage of TZ, start using and updating /etc/timezone |
| 07:59.15 | CIA-43 | openmoko: 03zecke * r2375da7466ba 10/src/libraries/qtopia/qworldmap.cpp: Avoid SIGFPE with a division with zero (hImg) |
| 07:59.16 | CIA-43 | openmoko: 03zecke * r6a6017e59172 10/qtopiacore/qt/src/gui/painting/qbackingstore.cpp: Fix for the spinbox in the alarm section of the clock |
| 08:03.10 | *** join/#openmoko Xilent (n=supersti@unaffiliated/xilent) |
| 08:05.17 | *** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 08:05.20 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 08:09.43 | *** join/#openmoko apol|work (n=pol@xwing4.upc.es) |
| 08:10.37 | *** join/#openmoko cekay (n=christia@gate.tarent.de) |
| 08:13.48 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@adsl-69-232-195-12.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 08:15.23 | CIA-43 | openmoko: 03zecke 07org.openmoko.april-update * r7e73f8d100ef 10/packages/tzdata/tzdata_2007k.bb: tzdata: Write a default /etc/timezone, install a /etc/localtime |
| 08:26.57 | *** join/#openmoko _rob_ (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 08:28.56 | *** join/#openmoko josch|nsn (i=d9734be7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e8786c8bfababfa4) |
| 08:29.42 | *** join/#openmoko wejp (n=wejp@moon.spacetechnology.net) |
| 08:31.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1405 has been created by regina_kim(AT)openmoko.com |
| 08:31.03 | cdbot2 | * * Edit screen is disappear if touch save without type anything |
| 08:31.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1405 |
| 08:41.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1406 has been created by regina_kim(AT)openmoko.com |
| 08:41.03 | cdbot2 | * * Scroll bar does not appear in list screen if the Tags more then 6. |
| 08:41.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1406 |
| 08:41.20 | josch|nsn | XorA|gone: are you there or rly gone? |
| 08:47.33 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@80.84.1.11) |
| 08:48.30 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@78-22-5-158.access.telenet.be) |
| 08:48.39 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e44b94c.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 08:52.09 | buz | is there a qemu version of ASU? |
| 08:53.18 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 08:55.08 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com) |
| 08:55.49 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-219-243-215.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:58.32 | ljp | rwhitby: ping |
| 08:59.03 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (n=heinold@leningrad.mi.fu-berlin.de) |
| 09:02.48 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@cpe-92-37-18-17.dynamic.amis.net) |
| 09:03.59 | *** join/#openmoko pvborza (n=paul@89.137.50.204) |
| 09:04.48 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@79-68-66-4.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 09:07.31 | *** join/#openmoko BDo (n=bdonnett@linagoraberri.pck.nerim.net) |
| 09:08.36 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 09:14.59 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@ubuntu/member/emonkey) |
| 09:21.28 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-219-243-215.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:22.18 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 09:39.45 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@193.204.59.123) |
| 09:39.50 | bedboi | hi there. |
| 09:40.05 | bedboi | any news about the software update for GTA01? |
| 09:40.45 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@f053152111.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:41.44 | josch|nsn | bedboi: you mean ASU |
| 09:41.51 | bedboi | yep |
| 09:42.06 | josch|nsn | bedboi: just wait for XorA|gone to return |
| 09:42.10 | bedboi | i just don't need to add another acronym to my db :) |
| 09:42.15 | josch|nsn | he manages ASU for gta01 |
| 09:43.41 | bedboi | is there any unofficial release? |
| 09:44.17 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@89-212-127-244.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net) |
| 09:44.49 | josch|nsn | as far as i know no |
| 09:46.01 | *** join/#openmoko tessier (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) |
| 09:47.21 | *** join/#openmoko Outlander (n=outlande@unaffiliated/outlander) |
| 09:48.49 | *** join/#openmoko rschuster (n=rob@brln-4db88e50.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 09:52.26 | tessier | You have to sign an NDA to be an openmoko developer? |
| 09:52.37 | tessier | That doesn't seem to go well with being an open phone. |
| 09:53.47 | SpeedEvil | no, you don't |
| 09:54.43 | josch|nsn | but you have to sign an nda to develop on gsm and stuff |
| 09:54.52 | SpeedEvil | Nope. |
| 09:54.56 | josch|nsn | but i mean only the gsm firmware |
| 09:55.13 | SpeedEvil | GSM firmware is basically out. |
| 09:55.16 | SpeedEvil | Bu that's all |
| 09:55.24 | tessier | I see. Unfortunately but blame the FCC. :( |
| 09:55.25 | SpeedEvil | you get a normal serial modem interface |
| 09:55.35 | josch|nsn | no firmware update anymore? |
| 09:55.50 | josch|nsn | i here mickeyl complaining about gsm firmware quite often |
| 09:55.58 | josch|nsn | there are also several bugs filed |
| 09:56.02 | Kamping_Kaiser | wonders why its the FCC's fault |
| 09:56.26 | SpeedEvil | Kamping_Kaiser: completely open radio firmware does _bad_ stuff combined with asocial users. |
| 09:56.44 | *** join/#openmoko d3vice (n=d3vice@a213-22-124-16.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 09:57.06 | josch|nsn | and it's probably not allowed to be sold either |
| 09:57.28 | Kamping_Kaiser | SpeedEvil, meh. same with HAM gear, and coils of copper |
| 09:57.51 | SpeedEvil | Kamping_Kaiser: sure - but one person can't with those code a peer-peer app |
| 09:58.08 | Kamping_Kaiser | SpeedEvil, not sure what you mean by that. |
| 09:58.12 | *** join/#openmoko w-mute (n=matjor@193.96.33.242) |
| 09:58.22 | SpeedEvil | Kamping_Kaiser: which uses one radio channel, and wipes out 8 or 16 users who are making phone calls normally. |
| 09:58.56 | SpeedEvil | GSM works so well because every handset transmits in a time when no others are doing so. |
| 09:59.21 | Kamping_Kaiser | SpeedEvil, ah right. i'd disagree that HAM gear couldnt be made to wipe out channels fairly gratuitiously. |
| 09:59.22 | Kamping_Kaiser | *sp |
| 09:59.38 | SpeedEvil | Kamping_Kaiser: Sure ham gear can. |
| 10:00.09 | SpeedEvil | Kamping_Kaiser: however - contemplate an app for a mass market device that can do this, 'free data transfer' |
| 10:00.31 | SpeedEvil | Kamping_Kaiser: And you rapidly cause major network problems. |
| 10:00.57 | SpeedEvil | Kamping_Kaiser: especially when it's as easy as installing napster or kazaa or something. |
| 10:01.29 | Kamping_Kaiser | SpeedEvil, i'm not convinced. theres existing wifi cards (thnk raylink and atheros for examples) that have open firmware. |
| 10:01.29 | rschuster | hey, how am I supposed to mount nfs remote directories in OM? after starting portmap manually mounting manually fails with: mount: RPC: Program not registered |
| 10:01.29 | rschuster | I was told there should be a nfs client support module but don't anything like this in 'opkg list' |
| 10:02.13 | methril | the you suggest to make a GSM device "open" ? |
| 10:02.38 | SpeedEvil | Kamping_Kaiser: the frequencies the modem can use are all allocated to GSM. |
| 10:02.59 | SpeedEvil | Kamping_Kaiser: transmitting _anything_ without the control of teh tower on one channel will disrupt 8-16 calls |
| 10:03.07 | Kamping_Kaiser | SpeedEvil, sure (not that wifi cards are modems) |
| 10:03.57 | *** part/#openmoko w-mute (n=matjor@193.96.33.242) |
| 10:04.32 | SpeedEvil | I care very little about wifi. |
| 10:04.51 | SpeedEvil | GSM, where pulling this sort of crap can disrupt emergency calls - is a really bad thing. |
| 10:05.18 | Kamping_Kaiser | what band is GSM? (i forget the frequency) |
| 10:05.32 | SpeedEvil | 4 bands |
| 10:05.49 | Tronic | Wtf, why is OpenMoko switching to Qt? |
| 10:05.51 | Kamping_Kaiser | if the network cant handle rouge devices is suceptalbe to an attack already and should be fixed (just imio of course) |
| 10:06.02 | SpeedEvil | You simply cannot fix this. |
| 10:06.16 | josch|nsn | Tronic: they arent |
| 10:06.31 | SpeedEvil | Wireless is _not_ like conventional networks. |
| 10:06.38 | SpeedEvil | Where you can simply filter stuff out. |
| 10:07.26 | josch|nsn | Tronic: it's a temporal solution as the gtk stuff was not usable |
| 10:07.38 | josch|nsn | Tronic: but they arnt "switching" |
| 10:07.54 | SpeedEvil | Kamping_Kaiser: you can make efforts to alleviate interfernce, but it's _much_ better to simply not have that interference. |
| 10:08.11 | josch|nsn | Tronic: because 1) its temproal (e will be used later on) and 2) you have still all gtk libs around |
| 10:08.51 | Kamping_Kaiser | josch|nsn, "(e will be ..." ? i dont follow :/ |
| 10:08.51 | SpeedEvil | Kamping_Kaiser: a phone close to a tower can have a million times the signal strength of a distant one. If the nearby one is transmitting at the wrong time, you simply can't pick up the distant one. |
| 10:09.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1408 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com |
| 10:09.03 | cdbot2 | * * packagekit still send success when md5sum error |
| 10:09.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1408 |
| 10:09.06 | josch|nsn | Kamping_Kaiser: you know what e is? |
| 10:09.32 | Kamping_Kaiser | josch|nsn, i know it as a drug, and a desktop environment |
| 10:09.38 | josch|nsn | haha |
| 10:09.53 | josch|nsn | no e17 is the a window manager not an desktop environment |
| 10:09.59 | Kamping_Kaiser | SpeedEvil, then why isnt it burned to a rom? (or is it? i was told its still floating) |
| 10:10.06 | Kamping_Kaiser | josch|nsn, er, yes, sorry ;| |
| 10:10.20 | SpeedEvil | Kamping_Kaiser: it's in flash, which can't be easily programmed |
| 10:10.26 | josch|nsn | and e is a collection of all the libs around e17 like evas, edje, ecore, efreet... |
| 10:10.37 | Kamping_Kaiser | SpeedEvil, ah ok. |
| 10:11.16 | Kamping_Kaiser | josch|nsn, i thought the E foundation libs were totally seperate (which causes the confustion re qt's connection) |
| 10:11.45 | josch|nsn | Kamping_Kaiser: of course you can use the e libs seperately from e17 |
| 10:12.20 | *** join/#openmoko ohin_CZ (n=opera@a02-0702a.kn.vutbr.cz) |
| 10:12.22 | Kamping_Kaiser | josch|nsn, yes, course. but i gathered from what you were saying that qt was there because E needed it. |
| 10:12.32 | josch|nsn | no |
| 10:12.56 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@195.23.92.2) |
| 10:13.00 | josch|nsn | openmoko currently uses a combination of qtopia and e apps |
| 10:13.33 | Kamping_Kaiser | decides he has a lot of catching up to do |
| 10:13.52 | josch|nsn | Kamping_Kaiser: just try out ASU and you will learn |
| 10:13.56 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@124-171-168-203.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:14.24 | *** join/#openmoko cyphi (n=cyphi@a91-156-123-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:15.02 | Kamping_Kaiser | josch|nsn, i'll find it, thanks |
| 10:17.02 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@129.84-49-131.nextgentel.com) |
| 10:20.41 | *** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 10:20.52 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 10:22.08 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@124-171-168-203.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:23.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1409 has been created by tick(AT)openmoko.com |
| 10:23.03 | cdbot2 | * * packagekit send success even if network failed. |
| 10:23.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1409 |
| 10:24.03 | *** join/#openmoko balrog-kun (n=balrog@ckp18.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 10:24.16 | holycow | http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080522-openmoko-linux-mobile-phone-ditches-gtk-gets-qt-and-e17.html |
| 10:24.18 | holycow | yay! |
| 10:24.30 | holycow | does a dance |
| 10:24.34 | holycow | wickedness |
| 10:24.38 | holycow | i hope its true |
| 10:24.41 | ljp | why are you so happy? |
| 10:25.23 | josch|nsn | ljp: lol is your question serious? |
| 10:26.05 | holycow | primarily because gtk dev is guided by people that don't focus on performance |
| 10:26.20 | ljp | ahh |
| 10:26.26 | ljp | josch|nsn: yes I was serious |
| 10:26.37 | josch|nsn | ljp: just read the article - raster explains there why |
| 10:26.46 | holycow | while i get the issues around qt not being lgpl, you just end up with faster and nicer performing environments and apps overall (even tho shitty devs can ruin anything) |
| 10:27.21 | holycow | just look at what kde was able to do with qt4 |
| 10:27.28 | ljp | actually, being gpl is a good thing if you want your neo to remain free software |
| 10:28.08 | holycow | that too |
| 10:28.51 | josch|nsn | i hope you guys know that qtopia is a temporal solution? |
| 10:29.01 | holycow | also gtk suffers from the single pervasive issue around all open source projects without backing |
| 10:29.04 | josch|nsn | so do not worry about qtopia licensing |
| 10:29.05 | holycow | lethargy ... |
| 10:29.32 | holycow | which is fine its just that overall gtk also develops a lot more slowly because no one really funds it the way trolltech does qt stuff |
| 10:29.35 | *** part/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 10:29.44 | bedboi | guys what's the status of the power management? |
| 10:30.53 | holycow | well if you standardize on qtopia ... where can you go from there but maybe full qt or kde based something? going back to gtk isn't exactly possible |
| 10:31.26 | josch|nsn | holycow: it seems you have no idea about the feature plans? |
| 10:32.18 | ljp | josch|nsn: where does anyone say qtopia is temporary? |
| 10:32.24 | holycow | nope, i'm just watching from the periphery and the project people are quiet and busy getting product out :) |
| 10:32.31 | josch|nsn | read the mailing lists |
| 10:32.43 | josch|nsn | it works like this: |
| 10:32.50 | Kamping_Kaiser | hopes qt is only temp/optional |
| 10:32.51 | holycow | anything we should be aware of ? |
| 10:32.56 | josch|nsn | openmoko used gtk - it sucked |
| 10:33.16 | josch|nsn | then they realised that freerunner is about to be launched and that they need a working software |
| 10:33.32 | josch|nsn | qtopia was there so they took it and ported it to X11 |
| 10:33.40 | ljp | they did not port it |
| 10:33.40 | josch|nsn | and added some nice e goodies |
| 10:33.44 | tessier | just edited the wiki and added himself to the list of people who want to buy a phone so that maybe we can do a group buy |
| 10:34.01 | ljp | zecke claims that openmoko ported qtopia to x11 are wrong |
| 10:34.19 | josch|nsn | ljp: explain |
| 10:34.27 | ljp | trolltech ported it |
| 10:34.31 | tessier | I read that switch to qt article pasted above and wondered: Why does a phone with a tiny screen even need a window manager at all? |
| 10:34.52 | josch|nsn | ljp: oh rly? |
| 10:34.56 | diego_at_work | becouse there are multiple applcation running? |
| 10:34.56 | josch|nsn | nice, then |
| 10:35.03 | ljp | still pure qtopia works better |
| 10:35.04 | diego_at_work | ofc he need a wm ^^ |
| 10:35.44 | tessier | diego_at_work: You can use a task switcher of some sort for that. When I think window manager I think windows with borders and being able to move them around. Not much screen real estate for that sort of thing. Won't all apps just run full screen? |
| 10:35.46 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@imp050244.vpn.mi.fu-berlin.de) |
| 10:35.53 | josch|nsn | tessier, even your mobile phone has a wm but you probably have only one window at a time |
| 10:35.59 | diego_at_work | tessier, u think wrong |
| 10:36.15 | ljp | trolltech ported qtopia to x11 for research/demo. it was unsupported and not finished |
| 10:36.15 | diego_at_work | matchbox is a WM and don't have borders |
| 10:36.29 | tessier | diego_at_work: What does it do? |
| 10:36.29 | josch|nsn | right |
| 10:36.45 | josch|nsn | tessier it manages your applications you have running |
| 10:36.54 | diego_at_work | the windows are all full screen, but modal windows |
| 10:36.56 | josch|nsn | and displays them in the correct place |
| 10:37.25 | josch|nsn | anyway - the feature will not be qtopia but an e based environment |
| 10:38.24 | ljp | still, it will take quite a while for them to get in a usuable state |
| 10:38.28 | zecke | ljp: stop trolling. Better make libqtopiaphonemodem properly decode SMS and handle decoding properly at other places too :) |
| 10:38.57 | ljp | zecke: stop telling lies about how you ported qtopia to x11 when you know full well it was trolltech |
| 10:39.03 | josch|nsn | zecke: whats the truth about qtopia+x11 - what did om do? |
| 10:39.20 | zecke | ljp: go to distro-devel and read the status mails :) |
| 10:39.26 | raster | tessier: you have a very limited idea of a window manager |
| 10:39.38 | raster | tessier: wm's may or may not put borders |
| 10:39.45 | raster | they may or may not allow u to riuesize, move |
| 10:39.50 | raster | they may or may not do many other things too |
| 10:39.52 | josch|nsn | ah raster, zecke finally someone that is into all this ;) |
| 10:40.17 | zecke | josch|nsn: I didn't follow your discussion but the truth is: Trolltech started with an _x11 port, and I think I mentioned that in my status reports on distro-devel |
| 10:40.27 | raster | as such u really need a wm to manage switching |
| 10:40.31 | josch|nsn | zecke: right |
| 10:40.32 | raster | handle focus setting |
| 10:40.32 | zecke | josch|nsn: the other truth is: The stuff TT was doing is barely working :) |
| 10:40.34 | raster | etc. |
| 10:40.35 | ljp | zecke: I dont need to I was running qtopia x11 months before you even knew about it |
| 10:40.39 | raster | e as such sucks in a lot more that it does |
| 10:40.41 | raster | like launching apps |
| 10:40.51 | raster | a status "shelg" (panel) |
| 10:41.02 | zecke | ljp: so passing "-noshow" to todolist and contact... whatever didn't annoy these apps for you? |
| 10:41.05 | raster | and gadgets to display current status of battery, gsm, wireless, blah blah blah |
| 10:41.16 | zecke | ljp: fix your bugs and shut up, I'm sick of arguing with you. |
| 10:41.31 | holycow | back, *scroll* *scroll* |
| 10:41.39 | ljp | give us some actual bugs and not things you think is wrong with the code |
| 10:41.55 | zecke | ljp: do a git-log and count the bugs fixed. Hell, I fixed huge memory leaks. You don't even know the concept of a destructor in your office. |
| 10:42.14 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=gzba4143@AMontsouris-153-1-43-17.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:42.19 | zecke | ljp: CUSD handling ignoring the CSD parameter on the result |
| 10:42.25 | raster | either way |
| 10:42.36 | raster | qtopia on x11 is behaving much better now than it did at the start |
| 10:42.42 | raster | it really didnt like there being a wm |
| 10:42.43 | raster | :) |
| 10:42.52 | raster | (or a wm that likes to enforce policies/placement) |
| 10:43.00 | zecke | ljp: conceptional flaws about guessing how long executing a queue is taken... |
| 10:43.01 | raster | and did make assumptions on its environment |
| 10:43.09 | josch|nsn | i'm rly excited to try out the ASU on my gta01 |
| 10:43.16 | raster | it was mostly displaying and there and working |
| 10:43.37 | raster | but it was definitely missing the extra touches and integration back with a normal x world |
| 10:43.38 | raster | :) |
| 10:43.42 | guillaum1 | zecke: hi. woglinde told me you helped him on the qtopia4 stuff for MIDPath. Thanks for that ! |
| 10:44.00 | ljp | raster: thats because 1. qtopia x11 was a proof of concept,. 2. it was not supported nor optimized nor worked on |
| 10:44.00 | zecke | ljp: Anyway. Stop claiming Qtopia is product ready. It is not even possible to show german umlaute in contacts coming fromt he SIM... |
| 10:44.22 | zecke | ljp: so you ported something and it didn't work? this is not my understanding of porting.. |
| 10:44.31 | zecke | ported Linux to a quantum computer then... |
| 10:44.55 | ljp | there are different stages of working. usually 'proof of concept' mean alpha |
| 10:45.14 | josch|nsn | lol guys could you lay down your differences or discuss this matter elsewhere? :/ |
| 10:45.27 | Kamping_Kaiser | josch|nsn, aw :( i was watching |
| 10:45.30 | zecke | guillaum1: I just had a look at some files. I wonder where the fonts are coming from in MIDPath? e.g. I would like to have german umlaute properly displayed :) |
| 10:46.02 | guillaum1 | zecke: yeah I know. I have to fix that... Will do |
| 10:46.11 | zecke | josch|nsn: sorry. I'm just sick of lorn always talking, doing nothing and making false claims. |
| 10:46.11 | methril | did you see that messge from the Comunity ML? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/017756.html |
| 10:46.30 | raster | ljp: yeah - it still had all those rough bits. it works ok - to an extent, if u have no wm |
| 10:46.31 | raster | :) |
| 10:46.37 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=charlie@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 10:46.56 | guillaum1 | was lazy on the font stuff |
| 10:47.04 | holycow | zecke and ljp, well let me just say i appreciate all the work both of you guys/orgs are doing |
| 10:47.05 | raster | err |
| 10:47.08 | raster | it worked |
| 10:47.10 | ljp | raster: it was done on matchbox |
| 10:47.13 | josch|nsn | methril: quite nice :) |
| 10:47.24 | raster | hmm |
| 10:47.24 | zecke | ljp: Stop claiming that picking Qtopia (even on Qt Embedded Linux) would have made anything faster. I fix gernal Qtopia issues day-in, day-out. There is hardly anything X11 related |
| 10:47.26 | holycow | at the end of the day having e17, qtopia and an open device is far better than sliced bread |
| 10:47.29 | methril | id' like to help, but maybe i'm so noob :) |
| 10:47.44 | raster | rather interesting - did u test the whole env - or just specifci apps ie 1 at a time? |
| 10:47.58 | ljp | zecke: I tried the ASU thing. qtopia fb still starts apps faster |
| 10:48.08 | raster | holycow: at least u can use any tooklit u like |
| 10:48.21 | raster | gtk, qt, hell- perl/tk - if someone gets it building |
| 10:48.21 | holycow | raster: that is actually really nice as well |
| 10:48.23 | zecke | raster: queens land, a special place in the world, things magically work there :) |
| 10:48.24 | raster | or efl |
| 10:48.26 | raster | or sdl |
| 10:48.27 | ljp | raster: it was a demo of 'look! it runs in x11 too' |
| 10:48.28 | raster | or... |
| 10:48.38 | mjr | doesn't mind qtopia stuff on X11 either |
| 10:48.39 | holycow | just for the record, while i preffer qt, i don't want to see gtk shut out either |
| 10:48.48 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host150-168-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:48.54 | zecke | ljp: yeah, proper Qt apps even run on Windows and OSX ;) |
| 10:48.58 | raster | ljp: yeah - it had that feel. :) i understand - no problkems. but it has needed a fair bit of fiddling and work to make it work "better" :) |
| 10:49.17 | *** join/#openmoko zerghase (n=zerghase@dslb-088-065-139-056.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:49.17 | ljp | of course. no one is denying that |
| 10:49.23 | zerghase | Moin |
| 10:49.24 | holycow | for us noobs, is qtopia a subset of qt, or a whole different beast? |
| 10:49.40 | ljp | qtopia is to qt what kde is to qt |
| 10:49.49 | holycow | got it. danke. |
| 10:49.50 | zecke | holycow: Qt + libs+apps |
| 10:49.50 | ljp | somewhat |
| 10:50.07 | holycow | right, neato |
| 10:50.32 | ljp | but qtopia does need no stinkin' x |
| 10:50.39 | ljp | does not need, that is |
| 10:50.49 | zecke | ljp: http://trolltech.com/developer/task-tracker/index_html?id=212600&method=entry stop talking and fix that. and then review your code where you blindly stick the result of the modem into a QString where you should proper decoding (hint addressbook) |
| 10:50.49 | holycow | so latest qtopia uses qt4? or older version? |
| 10:51.01 | mjr | yesyes, because you'd prefer your vendor-lockin |
| 10:51.07 | zecke | holycow: it is tied to Qt4.3 |
| 10:51.13 | ljp | zecke: i have nothin gto do with addressbook |
| 10:51.16 | holycow | neato |
| 10:51.34 | holycow | maybe qtopia 4 can include plasma |
| 10:51.36 | holycow | ducks |
| 10:51.37 | holycow | :) |
| 10:51.42 | holycow | sorry had to go for it |
| 10:51.53 | ljp | plasma schasma |
| 10:52.05 | zecke | ljp: good attitude. so there are bugs that make Qtopia Phone unusable for 90% of the people of the world and you don't care. but prefer to say how great and ready it is |
| 10:52.28 | zecke | ljp: talk is so easy, you should start showing code |
| 10:52.40 | ljp | did i say i didnt care? i just said i dont work on addressbook |
| 10:53.11 | ljp | but i understand when you say 'you' you really mean trolltech |
| 10:53.45 | holycow | i'd like to order both of you giant kegs of beer |
| 10:54.04 | holycow | i think the goal here is to crush wince and the iphone, no? |
| 10:54.06 | holycow | :) |
| 10:54.17 | zecke | So from what I know, even Qtopia 4.4 will not be usable by the not english speaking world. |
| 10:54.24 | mjr | (incidentally using my lappie on the train again with neo as my internet hookup) |
| 10:54.28 | Kamping_Kaiser | holycow, i'm hoping the goal is to ensure freedom myself ;) |
| 10:54.43 | holycow | Kamping_Kaiser: lol! heh, much more sensible indeed! |
| 10:54.48 | holycow | mjr: are you? sweet! |
| 10:55.49 | Kamping_Kaiser | mjr, cool... i wont have to ask if its posable then ;) |
| 10:56.01 | zecke | ljp: Stop claiming Qtopia (Phone) is just working even if you have deployed group thinking. |
| 10:56.27 | holycow | personally i would like to encourage the moko project to consider some of the device formats here for future generations: http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HTC_2dPhones |
| 10:57.39 | holycow | zecke: question for you |
| 10:57.51 | holycow | we are being asked to start looking at blackberreis and we hate the devices with a passion |
| 10:57.55 | holycow | they just don't work frankly |
| 10:57.58 | zecke | josch|nsn: if you are interested in what I did to Qtopia: http://git.openmoko.org/?p=qtopia.git;a=summary :) |
| 10:58.14 | holycow | but they have only one feature that is usefull in a corporate setting: device control via policy |
| 10:58.27 | mjr | I have to say that the gprs experience, limited though it is, is _much_ better than on my previous symbian phone (n-gage); the connection might lag for whiles when in poor reception areas but it just won't die but restores sooner or later |
| 10:58.30 | mjr | which was _not_ the case with said other phone |
| 10:58.38 | *** part/#openmoko pvborza (n=paul@89.137.50.204) |
| 10:58.41 | holycow | might the e17/qtopia environment have the capability at some point to have lockdown capability via policy? |
| 10:58.52 | holycow | if the answer is yes then we would be buying mokos for the company |
| 10:59.29 | holycow | kde has the kiosk framework for this (not quite maintained but in principle it works fairly well) |
| 10:59.38 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@78-22-5-158.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:00.01 | diego_at_work | porting kde to neo, may not be a great idea ^^ |
| 11:00.25 | zecke | holycow: well, obviously not for the ASU and to admit I didn't think of it before. E.g. would having a dedicated user account + limited amount of apps be enough? |
| 11:00.26 | Kamping_Kaiser | holycow, you have policy on phones? :| |
| 11:00.31 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
| 11:00.40 | josch|nsn | zecke: yeah i know this list - this is why i got confused about someone saying you NOT ported it |
| 11:00.51 | holycow | well the libraries aren't designed for current psus thats true, if cpus keep on going below 45nm we may actually see gigaherz types of power in cels too |
| 11:01.09 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak (n=stefreak@frnk-4d01ccc7.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 11:01.12 | holycow | Kamping_Kaiser: for corporate environments its a must |
| 11:01.14 | holycow | infact |
| 11:01.40 | holycow | its starting to become part of laws in particular for companies operating in the health and public service sectors |
| 11:01.59 | Kamping_Kaiser | holycow, crazy |
| 11:02.06 | holycow | primarily around security and auditing, however you can extend that all the way down into the framework it self |
| 11:02.32 | holycow | zecke: no worries i mean look its the first iteration of the product in the market place. you guys have a lot to prove before you get there. |
| 11:02.43 | holycow | zecke: that would be a good start yes |
| 11:03.08 | zecke | holycow: I mean with the open nature you can start doing netfilter stuff, SELinux :) |
| 11:03.36 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-144-073.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:03.37 | josch|nsn | see you later guys! |
| 11:03.41 | holycow | ljp: that is also for you as well ... if you guys are looking at pushing qtopia further, think policy based controls, it something everyone in corp is being forced to deal with |
| 11:03.47 | holycow | zecke: there is that |
| 11:03.54 | holycow | zecke: indeed i mean we probably will |
| 11:04.03 | holycow | but as with anything homebrew its reinventing the wheel |
| 11:04.12 | holycow | being able to buy support for such a feature separately for example |
| 11:04.15 | holycow | would be of interest to us |
| 11:04.58 | holycow | so as with the bb you buy a server app to integrate into mail system that also handles all the policies (it happens to act as a vpn gateway for bbs as well as act as a proxy for http access to save on bandwidth usage for carriers) |
| 11:05.21 | holycow | but with bbs its closed of course and basically targets only exchange which we just despise |
| 11:05.28 | holycow | the usually non free 'herd the cattle stuff' |
| 11:05.33 | holycow | so think of it this way |
| 11:05.42 | holycow | yes its a feature i'm interestedin done right with a turnkey system |
| 11:05.49 | holycow | its also a feature we would like to buy support fort |
| 11:05.51 | *** part/#openmoko rschuster (n=rob@brln-4db88e50.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 11:05.52 | holycow | for |
| 11:05.58 | holycow | that also brings up another tangent |
| 11:06.11 | holycow | while the moko devices will make or break on pure retail sales i guess |
| 11:06.13 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: 03heikki.paajanen * r0a70d25161e6 10/ (6 files in 2 dirs): |
| 11:06.13 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: Improved Neo support |
| 11:06.13 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: More serial fixes |
| 11:06.26 | holycow | there is additional possibility for you guys to offer value add services such as the one i described |
| 11:06.35 | ljp | holycow: look at SXE |
| 11:06.44 | holycow | no wince, iphone or bb device could really do what you guys can |
| 11:06.51 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@pub1.heig-vd.ch) |
| 11:06.58 | holycow | especially with e17/qtopia/linux in the mix, thats one powerfull combination |
| 11:07.02 | holycow | plus or minus some bugs |
| 11:07.05 | holycow | :) ljp googling |
| 11:07.45 | zecke | ljp: isn't there a mentioning of a security issue with SXE in the tt documentation? I remember emdete mentioning that |
| 11:08.45 | ljp | possibly. |
| 11:08.46 | holycow | if either of you guys have questions or thoughts or need input, i'm around |
| 11:08.55 | holycow | i'm not sure anything i said is usefull or helpfull |
| 11:09.04 | holycow | but just tossing it out there |
| 11:09.11 | ljp | sxe is being reworked for 4.4 |
| 11:11.32 | holycow | ljp: very interesting |
| 11:11.36 | holycow | thanks for the heads up on that |
| 11:12.20 | *** join/#openmoko facka69 (i=5277a3e9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f162a9cf7455f924) |
| 11:15.21 | *** join/#openmoko apol|work (n=pol@xwing4.upc.es) |
| 11:16.00 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@78-22-5-158.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:16.05 | facka69 | hallo, after i flashed the underground image in my gta01 the older original om images are shown in a bad layout (gray in gray) and the system freezes |
| 11:16.20 | *** join/#openmoko p3t3r__ (n=peter@wlan.net-you.de) |
| 11:16.25 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@78-22-5-158.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:16.31 | facka69 | maybe an X11 problem? :( |
| 11:19.40 | diego_at_work | have you tried to login via usb? |
| 11:20.13 | facka69 | diego_at_work: ssh? |
| 11:20.17 | diego_at_work | yes |
| 11:20.38 | facka69 | diego_at_work: i will check it |
| 11:22.53 | zeno___ | does running e17 AND qtoptia eat up ram? why is qtopia needed anyways? |
| 11:23.01 | raster | no it doesnt |
| 11:23.13 | raster | its less than matchbox+gtk oh apps |
| 11:23.18 | ljp | because qtopia works |
| 11:24.14 | zecke | ljp: ... |
| 11:24.29 | zecke | ljp: if it is working, why do I need to patch it? |
| 11:24.46 | diego_at_work | somewhat working? ^^ |
| 11:24.57 | ljp | just because something works doesnt mean its perfect |
| 11:25.36 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@h86n6c1o1036.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 11:25.52 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@78-22-5-158.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:26.01 | zecke | ljp: what is your definition of working? it compiles? |
| 11:27.06 | ljp | ya your right. qtopia doesnt work. thats not why you guys started using it. you just wanted to do more work. |
| 11:28.24 | zeno___ | it seems best to me to just have a fullscreen WM (that supports switching), not like you are going to have more than one app open on it |
| 11:28.39 | zecke | ljp: well, our leaders fell victim to marketing. I can't blame them but that doesn't mean Qtopia is bug free or can be used by people |
| 11:28.50 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@lbcsi.fri.uni-lj.si) |
| 11:28.56 | ljp | i cant use it. |
| 11:29.09 | zeno___ | does it work for calls 95+% of the time? |
| 11:29.21 | ljp | seems to |
| 11:29.36 | ljp | err I mean.. heh I _can_ use it |
| 11:32.15 | zecke | ljp: if you get a spanish SMS you can't read. The root cause. You blindly stick strings you should decode into a QString at various places throughout libqtopiaphonemodem. And you are unable to fix that for Qtopia4.4 according to your support |
| 11:33.10 | ynezz | zecke: you're paid by OM to work on Qt/Qtopia? |
| 11:33.16 | ynezz | just curious :) |
| 11:33.29 | zecke | ljp: so Qtopia Phone 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 might be a phone but not for GSM/UMTS/EDGE standards |
| 11:33.39 | diego_at_work | with the old qtopia image (frame buffer) i wasn't able to write italian sms ^^ |
| 11:33.52 | zecke | ynezz: yes, I'm just curious why I fix bugs day-in and day-out if everything is just working |
| 11:34.09 | zeno___ | do you think edge will be in the next version? |
| 11:34.26 | methril | in the next version of? |
| 11:34.31 | zeno___ | openmoko phone |
| 11:34.49 | zecke | zeno___: no idea, just wanted to have the list complete :) |
| 11:34.52 | methril | GTA03? i don't think so |
| 11:34.54 | zecke | ljp: ??? |
| 11:35.19 | mjr | was it raster or some other om guy that said that 03 will have edge |
| 11:35.24 | methril | but i don't know |
| 11:35.45 | zecke | ljp: I have named already two places to the TT support where you fail to properly decode, I assume there are more. So what do you say? Is that working by your definition? |
| 11:35.52 | ieatlint_ | gta02 only has gprs? |
| 11:35.55 | DPThuugh1 | are there any GTA01 builds for the new-world stuff? |
| 11:36.02 | mjr | ieatlint_, yes |
| 11:36.10 | methril | <DPThuugh1> not yet |
| 11:36.18 | *** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net) |
| 11:36.23 | DPThuugh1 | methril: but there will be? |
| 11:36.42 | methril | i think XorgA is working on it |
| 11:37.08 | DPThuugh1 | nice. |
| 11:37.40 | zecke | ljp: the thing is: I'm capable of opening GSM 07.07, go through each command you use and check if you lacked the encoding. I'm just annoyed that I have to do this. I wonder why you are not able to do this? Isn't GSM important? |
| 11:38.02 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree (n=df@218.82.112.51) |
| 11:38.43 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db7d889.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 11:38.57 | zecke | ljp: ??? |
| 11:44.58 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak (n=stefreak@frnk-4d01eef9.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 11:45.12 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@f053152199.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:46.17 | facka69 | diego_at_work: ssh is not possible :( |
| 11:47.32 | diego_at_work | ok, it's ufficially crashed.... |
| 11:47.43 | diego_at_work | i suspect a problem with the X server |
| 11:49.00 | facka69 | diego_at_work: but why can it crash only by fashing? |
| 11:49.18 | diego_at_work | flashing? |
| 11:49.29 | *** join/#openmoko milo__ (n=nilsense@dslb-088-078-249-199.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:50.11 | diego_at_work | i suspect X11, becouse having direct access to hardware, it can't lockup the hardware |
| 11:50.17 | diego_at_work | s/can't/can |
| 11:50.34 | facka69 | diego_at_work: is it not flashing when i insert a new image with dfu-util? |
| 11:50.43 | diego_at_work | yes |
| 11:50.47 | diego_at_work | it is |
| 11:51.11 | diego_at_work | btw you can flash an old image for recover it |
| 11:51.44 | diego_at_work | i suggest you to flash images on SD, if you want to do some testing |
| 11:51.58 | diego_at_work | and leave a working image on the internal flash |
| 11:52.28 | facka69 | now it is to late or not? |
| 11:53.34 | diego_at_work | no, you can still flash a working image |
| 11:53.39 | diego_at_work | btw: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD |
| 11:55.59 | facka69 | yes this is on sd and is it than possible to recover the flash image (that it work for later with a final build)? |
| 11:56.11 | diego_at_work | you can always reflash kernel or images |
| 11:56.32 | diego_at_work | only flashing uboot can brick you neo |
| 11:58.01 | facka69 | but when i flash the neo (not on sd) with an old working image it chash? |
| 11:59.10 | diego_at_work | it's supposed to do not crash |
| 11:59.13 | *** join/#openmoko bagpuss_thecat (n=bagpuss_@ip246-108-v193.static.x-ip.net) |
| 12:00.16 | bagpuss_thecat | moooooorning all |
| 12:00.29 | facka69 | how can i fix it? |
| 12:00.56 | zeno___ | wha you cant ssh? |
| 12:01.09 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:04.02 | ljp | zecke: we have 40 engineers just working on qtopia bugs. and yes, for the most part it works. |
| 12:04.19 | ljp | zecke: whatever support tells you i have no control over. |
| 12:04.41 | *** join/#openmoko Psi (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 12:05.44 | facka69 | diego_at_work: do you mean that is an hardware bug (a long time the flashing works, and after the booting of the underground image fails, all other images was also bad) |
| 12:05.55 | zeno___ | ljp: you work for trolltech? |
| 12:06.36 | ljp | zecke: I dont know why that is happening, I dont necessarily work on phone libs, but I can bring it up |
| 12:06.37 | diego_at_work | I think is a problem with the image that you flashed |
| 12:06.45 | mickeyl | morning |
| 12:06.47 | ljp | zeno___: yes |
| 12:06.54 | zecke | ljp: people pick Qtopia becuase they want to add value. me going through src/libraries/qtopiaphonemodem and reviewing your code is not creating any value for OM |
| 12:07.45 | facka69 | diego_at_work: but before the underground image the same image works fine! |
| 12:07.56 | ljp | zecke: perhaps you initial emails to support need to be more general. 'sending german sms doesn't work' |
| 12:08.15 | diego_at_work | uhm there was a bug in flashing images ... |
| 12:08.31 | ljp | zecke: wait till they send it to an engineer |
| 12:08.33 | zecke | ljp: such errors should be spotted internally, without going through support :) |
| 12:08.38 | ljp | truew |
| 12:08.58 | ljp | I will ask my lead, who is german why he hasnt sent any german sms's |
| 12:09.23 | zecke | ljp: I said spanish and received |
| 12:09.37 | ljp | he lewads the translations stuff too, so he will be amused to find this out |
| 12:10.11 | ljp | zecke: i used german as an example |
| 12:10.37 | zecke | ljp: you have been lazy with tr's as well. You have uglified your code with "// no tr" but seem to not do any checking on the strings ;) |
| 12:10.53 | ljp | we have plenty of non english speakers to test this stuff i am amazed you found problems |
| 12:11.37 | zecke | ljp: N209626 was one, I mostly just open a file in the Qtopia source and see obvious issues... |
| 12:12.27 | diego_at_work | facka69: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko |
| 12:13.00 | diego_at_work | look for the "VERY IMPORTANT NOTE", it may applay to you |
| 12:14.51 | zecke | ljp: and you don't use valgrind (memcheck + leak checking) on your apps... or how can you explain I was the first to find memleaks in libqtopiapim (by just looking at the code) |
| 12:15.16 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host150-168-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:15.55 | ljp | zecke: the // no tr thing is for scripts/commands and generate/creating translations |
| 12:17.13 | *** join/#openmoko LittleIdiot (n=lite@85.131.244.18) |
| 12:17.15 | zecke | ljp: e.g. even my grep setText over the qt sourcecode is showing obvious issues with i18n. setText(n + tr("bananas")) |
| 12:17.27 | zecke | ljp: 1.) differentiate between singular and plural form |
| 12:18.03 | zecke | ljp: 2.) the sentence composition is different in different langauges. e.g. some other langauge wants tr("bananas %1")... |
| 12:18.33 | zecke | brb |
| 12:19.06 | *** join/#openmoko Zwiseli (n=andy@dsl1.puzzle.ch) |
| 12:19.35 | *** join/#openmoko Quadduc (n=stian@90.149.198.188) |
| 12:21.23 | zecke | ljp: it is not the single bug one is finding. It is the amount of obvious issues with the sourcecode that makes everyone scream and run-away. |
| 12:21.25 | bagpuss_thecat | can SMS data stored on an OpenMoko phone be synced or backed up to a Linux PC? |
| 12:22.14 | ljp | zecke: what happened to alsa states files on gta02? |
| 12:22.33 | mjr | well yes of course |
| 12:22.36 | zecke | ljp: you saw graeme's mail, moved to /usr/share/openmoko/scenario |
| 12:22.38 | *** join/#openmoko alexxy (n=alexxy@79.173.81.171) |
| 12:22.50 | zecke | ljp: you can help on the alsa scenario API |
| 12:22.51 | mjr | "easily", dunno if at this point :] |
| 12:23.24 | *** join/#openmoko jadams_ (n=jadams@rrcs-24-73-180-234.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 12:24.06 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree (n=df@218.82.112.51) |
| 12:25.43 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos) |
| 12:25.43 | *** join/#openmoko unknown_lamer (n=clinton@cpe-071-065-238-103.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 12:26.50 | LittleIdiot | eeehm... who do i have to sleep with to get libspeex into the official buildsystem? ;) |
| 12:27.00 | Zwiseli | hei all, can anyone tell me if this is a bug? : If i want to build a image with bitbake, the initial caching progress stops at some point. If i press enter, some error messages about an not accepted certificate are shown and bitbake exits after the caching. If i press "p", the certificate gets accepted and the build process starts. |
| 12:27.08 | LittleIdiot | ...or where should i send the request to..? |
| 12:27.24 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe20dd00-223.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:27.53 | zecke | LittleIdiot: where is the difference between libspeex and speex? |
| 12:28.24 | Zwiseli | but there is no message when bitbake stops.. this is a bit confusing |
| 12:29.02 | LittleIdiot | zecke: none - is it included already? |
| 12:29.14 | zecke | LittleIdiot: should be, try to build speex |
| 12:29.58 | LittleIdiot | i've downloaded the latest rootfs tar.gz from buildhost.openmoko.org, did a "find -iname '*speex*'" in the root directory of it and got no results ;) |
| 12:30.13 | *** join/#openmoko larry_jr (n=Larry@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:30.22 | LittleIdiot | well, i guess i'll have to install the entire build system anyway... |
| 12:30.27 | zecke | LittleIdiot: :) |
| 12:30.38 | zecke | LittleIdiot: well, we might have prebuilt packages |
| 12:31.06 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@rt94.highlink.ru) |
| 12:31.10 | zecke | LittleIdiot: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/armv4t/ we do |
| 12:31.19 | zecke | LittleIdiot: speex, speex-dev, speex-dbg |
| 12:31.19 | LittleIdiot | ahh, thank you! |
| 12:31.25 | *** join/#openmoko xMDKx (n=mdkcore@nat/mandriva/x-dcb21b09cee70e9e) |
| 12:31.48 | zecke | LittleIdiot: if you find bugs with them, try bugs.openmoko.org or the distro-devel ML |
| 12:32.06 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178014053.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:32.20 | LittleIdiot | will do ;) |
| 12:37.25 | *** join/#openmoko fluffiey (n=fluffiey@82.96.63.58) |
| 12:38.02 | guillaum1 | zecke: in your opinon, what should we improve in MIDPath (except the font of course ;-) ) ? |
| 12:38.57 | zecke | guillaum1: hehe, I have not yet played with it too much |
| 12:39.35 | *** join/#openmoko fluffiey (n=fluffiey@82.96.63.58) |
| 12:39.39 | zecke | guillaum1: I have wondered how you will do touchscreen input, keyboard input, handling of the virtual keyboard, or in one phrase "integration" with the environment :) |
| 12:39.46 | *** join/#openmoko Bumbl (n=Unknown@212-183-118-131.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 12:40.08 | zecke | I'm just impressed that opera mini is working |
| 12:40.55 | Bumbl | in theory: is it possible to plug an usb hspa modem in the usb slot of the freerunner to get hsupa? |
| 12:41.09 | edistar_ | Bumbl: yes |
| 12:41.17 | guillaum1 | zecke: ok. we'll try to improve integration (with dbus features) |
| 12:41.55 | edistar_ | Bumbl: the only thing you need is the driver, and of course a host-usb-cable |
| 12:42.06 | edistar_ | and a spare battery :P |
| 12:45.22 | Bumbl | a spare battery won't be the problem, there are linux drivers for the modem but what do you mean with a host-usb-cable |
| 12:46.22 | guillaum1 | zecke: btw, will dbus still be the good way to interact with core features ? |
| 12:46.34 | edistar_ | well, you need a usb cable with two 'small' plugs.. someone else here can explain that much better :) |
| 12:47.01 | tomboy64 | are there usable navigation solutions for openmoko yet? |
| 12:47.15 | edistar_ | tomboy64: afaik not quite |
| 12:47.15 | tomboy64 | (nm if they're open source or commercial) |
| 12:47.18 | tomboy64 | :( |
| 12:47.20 | Bumbl | oh i see a kind of miniUSB to USB converter |
| 12:47.30 | edistar_ | Bumbl: yeah |
| 12:47.35 | zecke | guillaum1: sure, dbus is there to stay |
| 12:47.48 | tomboy64 | and the card-format openmoko is sd? (secure digital?) |
| 12:47.59 | tomboy64 | uhm |
| 12:48.03 | tomboy64 | for the freerunner i mean |
| 12:48.39 | polz | is suspend / resume working properly yet ? And if so, which pre-built kernel / rootfs should I be using ? |
| 12:50.01 | edistar_ | tomboy64: microSD, yes |
| 12:50.21 | polz | on a gta01 |
| 12:52.02 | *** join/#openmoko Jonashdsf (n=jonas@wop.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be) |
| 12:55.35 | *** join/#openmoko haakeyar (n=haakeyar@c9C364BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 12:56.17 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@wlrsvd-134.njit.edu) |
| 12:58.10 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos) |
| 13:00.01 | zecke | cya |
| 13:00.24 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis_ (n=summatus@afsconf120-51.njit.edu) |
| 13:02.58 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 13:04.27 | *** join/#openmoko cktakahasi (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.136) |
| 13:09.14 | *** join/#openmoko fenfir (n=fenfir@ppp-70-254-33-226.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) |
| 13:09.20 | *** join/#openmoko MarcOChapeau (n=MarcOCha@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:09.37 | *** join/#openmoko Jonashdsf (n=jonas@wop.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be) |
| 13:10.51 | *** join/#openmoko pazante (n=patrik@user113.77-105-224.netatonce.net) |
| 13:14.53 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@208.84-48-176.nextgentel.com) |
| 13:15.56 | tomboy64 | i wanna navigate! *whine* |
| 13:16.04 | tomboy64 | edistar_: thanks |
| 13:18.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1410 has been created by vollseil(AT)arcor.de |
| 13:18.03 | cdbot2 | * * make qtopia-x11 fails, does not find lXtst |
| 13:18.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1410 |
| 13:18.16 | *** join/#openmoko Quadduc (n=stian@90.149.198.188) |
| 13:19.00 | *** join/#openmoko xMDKx (n=mdkcore@nat/mandriva/x-29e81e8494648392) |
| 13:19.14 | *** join/#openmoko AzalynHD (n=junon@mcbain.semsolutions.com) |
| 13:19.35 | abraxa_ | tomboy64: Go to the map data creators and whine :) |
| 13:19.50 | tomboy64 | abraxa_: :-P |
| 13:19.50 | *** join/#openmoko renato (n=renato@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:20.23 | bmidgley | is there a new way to replace the multitap pad with a keyboard? |
| 13:20.50 | Psi | bmidgley, the numeric pad? |
| 13:20.57 | bmidgley | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards doesn't work (none of the packages found) |
| 13:21.06 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:21.15 | Psi | oh, i was looking for that url just before |
| 13:21.20 | bmidgley | Psi: yeah, to get the regular soft keyboard... |
| 13:21.33 | Psi | yeah, i want the regular one back too |
| 13:21.34 | bmidgley | the multitap thing messes up bluetooth keyboards too (or did last i checked) |
| 13:22.08 | Psi | i find the multitap hopeless for doing anything in terminal on the phone |
| 13:22.16 | Psi | i cant even find a / |
| 13:22.49 | bmidgley | and it's slow to use too |
| 13:22.56 | Psi | yep |
| 13:25.42 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 13:29.09 | *** join/#openmoko Arg0naut (n=steveois@CPE001c10acab63-CM000a7369b290.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 13:31.56 | shoragan | raster, e17 is now in debian experimental :) |
| 13:32.12 | mjr | +1 on the multitap whining |
| 13:34.22 | *** join/#openmoko ndavey (n=neil@220-244-140-108.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 13:35.29 | k-s | shoragan: great! |
| 13:35.49 | k-s | shoragan: how long until it hit debian-derivates? |
| 13:36.31 | zeno___ | shoragan: wierd it just hit that, it seemed more stable than KDE to me :) |
| 13:36.32 | shoragan | the derivates usually pull from unstable, so it'll take some time |
| 13:36.52 | zeno___ | could have something to do with my 256MB ram |
| 13:36.58 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@89-172-48-254.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 13:36.58 | shoragan | :) |
| 13:39.04 | Tanuva | shoragan: but they also pulled kde4.0 from experimental |
| 13:39.31 | shoragan | they? |
| 13:39.53 | shoragan | it depends on the derivates, i've no influence there ;) |
| 13:40.06 | Tanuva | they. kubuntu for example |
| 13:43.49 | *** join/#openmoko arndtroide (n=arndt@port-92-196-7-38.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 13:45.25 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz_ (i=ynezz@ibawizard.net) |
| 13:47.01 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak (n=stefreak@frnk-4d01eef9.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 13:50.31 | tomboy64 | i have 2 phones right now - one for private stuff, one for work. would it be possible to attach a sim-card-reader to the openmoko to - let's say use it to receive phone-calls from my private number while i'm also available from my work number? |
| 13:51.07 | tomboy64 | it would make things easier as i only had to use one headseat |
| 13:51.10 | tomboy64 | headset |
| 13:51.10 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E14D4D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:54.25 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 13:56.19 | tomboy64 | wants to run freeee |
| 13:56.35 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz (i=ynezz@ibawizard.net) |
| 13:56.44 | *** join/#openmoko mibo-cz (n=mibo-cz@ip-89-102-134-143.karneval.cz) |
| 13:57.42 | raster | zeno___: u'd be surprised |
| 13:57.45 | raster | u do have multiple apps open |
| 13:57.50 | raster | only 1 visible, but multiple around |
| 13:57.55 | raster | u dont want to lose state |
| 14:00.19 | *** join/#openmoko raff (n=raff@77-57-75-126.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:00.33 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789_ (n=bmk789@c-98-223-16-230.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 14:11.24 | *** join/#openmoko ScarEye (n=scareye@12.27.87.66) |
| 14:15.09 | AzalynHD | tomboy64: Well, i suppose you could attach a usb sim card reader.. |
| 14:15.13 | AzalynHD | if there is such a thing. |
| 14:15.25 | AzalynHD | since the phone supports usb host. |
| 14:15.30 | AzalynHD | but it's usb 1.1 |
| 14:15.47 | SpeedEvil | you can't |
| 14:15.53 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't workt hat way |
| 14:16.03 | AzalynHD | well, you'd need a driver for it.. |
| 14:16.04 | AzalynHD | :| |
| 14:16.12 | SpeedEvil | you need the SIM connected in a special way which the GSM firmware does not support |
| 14:16.40 | *** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 14:16.44 | AzalynHD | isn't dual-sim planned for a future phone model? |
| 14:16.52 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 14:16.52 | AzalynHD | like gta03 or 04 |
| 14:17.02 | SpeedEvil | Not AFAIK. |
| 14:17.13 | AzalynHD | well, i'm pretty sure i saw a page on it on the wiki |
| 14:17.22 | SpeedEvil | There are many pages on the wiki |
| 14:17.36 | SpeedEvil | 03 is basically 02 with a direct framebuffer |
| 14:18.14 | SpeedEvil | 04 is 03 with a faster CPU, different LCD. |
| 14:18.38 | SpeedEvil | And different - probably case. |
| 14:18.44 | AzalynHD | i hope you don't mean that low-res display. heh |
| 14:18.48 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:18.59 | AzalynHD | i seriously hope that changes... -_- |
| 14:20.06 | josch | no |
| 14:20.16 | josch | you wont need vga for a phone |
| 14:21.08 | josch | we will never be able to catch up with... say... the iphone... eyecandy wise if we stay at vga because our hardware is too slow to do fullscreen animation in vga resolution |
| 14:21.25 | SpeedEvil | GTA04 - I doubt that |
| 14:21.55 | zash | is fed up with al the OMG IPHONE OMG OMG |
| 14:21.56 | *** join/#openmoko fenfir (n=fenfir@206.255.217.100) |
| 14:21.58 | SpeedEvil | You get sharpness benefits if your screen is double the eyes resolution. |
| 14:22.03 | AzalynHD | won't the gta04 hardware be more powerful? |
| 14:22.20 | SpeedEvil | Azalyn: and have integrated 2D GPU, with an easy path to a 3D GPU |
| 14:23.03 | AzalynHD | so what's the res then? |
| 14:23.05 | AzalynHD | HVGA ? |
| 14:23.09 | AzalynHD | in gta04 |
| 14:23.18 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it, it's not well fixed |
| 14:23.24 | SpeedEvil | 480*272 has been mentioned |
| 14:23.45 | AzalynHD | what aspect ratio is that...? :| |
| 14:24.05 | SpeedEvil | Dunno - I'd assume square |
| 14:24.16 | SpeedEvil | s/re/re pixels/ |
| 14:24.31 | SpeedEvil | 1:5.66666 |
| 14:24.36 | AzalynHD | 4:3 would be nice... :| |
| 14:24.40 | mwester | thinks that far too many people are hung up on "specs-manship" -- MORE PIXELS! More pixels! We need at least 8192x4096 resolution, with 64-bit color, on our 2.0" LCD on our phone! *sigh* |
| 14:24.40 | SpeedEvil | 1:.566666 |
| 14:24.48 | *** join/#openmoko zeno_ (n=andrew@c-75-70-202-80.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 14:25.04 | SpeedEvil | It's more than specsmanship - in some cases. |
| 14:25.10 | AzalynHD | mwester: i don't think that's true.. |
| 14:25.14 | mwester | If someone wants to what HD video, a cell phone is the WRONG thing for it to begin with! |
| 14:25.21 | mwester | s/wath/watch/ |
| 14:25.33 | AzalynHD | I don't think wanting VGA is an unreasonable request. |
| 14:25.45 | SpeedEvil | A display of 2* the eyes resolution does have sharpness benefits. |
| 14:25.48 | AzalynHD | vga is not new after all.. |
| 14:25.49 | zash | VGA is almost overkill for a phon |
| 14:25.50 | zash | e |
| 14:26.15 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@pD9E09532.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:26.27 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 14:26.31 | AzalynHD | Now if someone wanted a 16:10 aspect ratio lcd with a resolution of 1280x800 ... |
| 14:26.50 | AzalynHD | then maybe you'd have a point. and i would agree that they'd be asking for too much from a phone. |
| 14:26.59 | zash | AzalynHD: they should buy a laptop then? |
| 14:28.28 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-219-243-215.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:28.34 | mwester | AzalynHD: If you have the money, you can have ANYTHING built for you. The fact is that VGA in a cell-phone form factor, with the performance you wish, and excellent battery life, etc, etc, etc, is extraordinarily expensive. Therefore, not well suited for a mass market. QVGA is much more reasonable, and something in the middle between those points is practical. |
| 14:29.24 | mwester | Perhaps OM will eventually be able to have multiple product lines - including an ultra-high-end device for those with the $$$$ |
| 14:29.44 | AzalynHD | yeah but it will probably happen eventually and be standard. i just think it's nice that the gta02 is ahead of the curve now in resolution. |
| 14:31.00 | SpeedEvil | However - I do think that 285dpi is probably overkill |
| 14:31.03 | SpeedEvil | But not that much |
| 14:31.20 | zash | and they use 300dpi for printing |
| 14:31.29 | mwester | The resolution is spectacular; the first thing most people I've shown the GTA01 notice is that clarity of the LCD. But as we've seen with the GTA02, the cost is the difficulty in doing things like full-screen video. |
| 14:31.34 | SpeedEvil | some quick numbers and testing indicate that it's significantly sharper at 200dpi than 100dpi |
| 14:31.37 | *** join/#openmoko xaid|work (n=Xaid|Wor@d150-193-215.home.cgocable.net) |
| 14:31.39 | AzalynHD | as for gpu's |
| 14:31.51 | AzalynHD | aren't there any decent powervr implementations that gta04 could use? |
| 14:31.56 | AzalynHD | maybe for a 'high end' model |
| 14:32.00 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 14:32.09 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@cpe-212-18-59-35.dynamic.amis.net) |
| 14:32.38 | AzalynHD | mwester: yeah but when is the target for gta04 ? |
| 14:32.47 | SpeedEvil | kit's no hold |
| 14:32.53 | AzalynHD | like date. |
| 14:32.55 | mwester | I don't know -- OM isn't particularly driven by dates. |
| 14:32.59 | *** join/#openmoko Trevi (n=Trevi@host194-122-dynamic.12-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:33.01 | AzalynHD | i mean a LOT may change from now until then |
| 14:33.03 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK (i=root@82.177.19.205) |
| 14:33.15 | AzalynHD | given how long GTA01 and GTA02 have been in development.. |
| 14:33.20 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 14:33.31 | AzalynHD | it may be two years before GTA04 is ready.. |
| 14:33.38 | AzalynHD | by then there could be an easier solution. |
| 14:33.55 | AzalynHD | the iphone i think will encourage SoC manufacturers to design better solutions in their chips. |
| 14:33.59 | AzalynHD | over the next few years |
| 14:34.08 | AzalynHD | better and low cost i mean. heh |
| 14:34.11 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK (i=root@82.177.19.205) |
| 14:34.12 | SpeedEvil | There is also the issue that where do we want to fall on the price/performance curve. |
| 14:34.37 | SpeedEvil | Is it worth +$800 for glitzy VGA? |
| 14:34.39 | AzalynHD | well, i think that all hangs on how successful gta02 will be. |
| 14:34.40 | SpeedEvil | Is it worth +$80 for glitzy VGA? |
| 14:35.03 | SpeedEvil | I think it's not implausible that GTA03 may end up as the mass market phone |
| 14:35.07 | AzalynHD | i would pay 80 bucks extra for it. |
| 14:35.14 | AzalynHD | i don't know about other people. |
| 14:35.39 | mwester | wonders if the $80 includes the cost of having raster develop the drivers for it? |
| 14:35.52 | AzalynHD | well whatever then, i meant the success of the mass market model. |
| 14:35.53 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK (i=root@82.177.19.205) |
| 14:36.26 | AzalynHD | i mean, if it ends up selling millions of units, with opensource fans all over the world using it.. i would say a 'high end' and 'low end' model for GTA04 is more possible. |
| 14:36.44 | AzalynHD | since there would be a huge market for it. |
| 14:37.09 | mwester | SpeedEvil: Given the timeframe for the mass-market software, and the localized nature of the 03 changes, I think your prediction may well be correct - it seems to make a lot of sense. |
| 14:37.17 | *** join/#openmoko _3v1n0_ (n=Trevi@host248-131-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:37.17 | AzalynHD | that's why i think that setting in stone what gta04 will have, and what compromises it'll make is *extremely* premature. |
| 14:37.26 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 14:37.56 | AzalynHD | it's good to have a plan, but it's also good to be flexible and wait and see what happens market-wise. |
| 14:37.56 | SpeedEvil | I've hypothesised in the past a bastard architecture. |
| 14:38.07 | SpeedEvil | A hacked XFb |
| 14:38.40 | SpeedEvil | It outputs to both a VGA and a QVGA resolution framebuffer. |
| 14:39.01 | SpeedEvil | All fast-moving stuff is done on the QVGA framebuffer. |
| 14:40.11 | zash | smart |
| 14:40.21 | AzalynHD | well, i won't wait for gta03 if it turns out to be the real mass-market phone. i'm buying as soon as i sell my current nokia 3250 when the gta02 comes out. i'll just 'deal' with the software incompleteness. |
| 14:40.29 | AzalynHD | and keep up with the updates. etc |
| 14:40.30 | SpeedEvil | And the display switches seamlessly between them. |
| 14:40.52 | AzalynHD | SpeedEvil: would that be like when someone doesn't use a native res for an lcd? |
| 14:41.10 | AzalynHD | like when playing a game for example.. |
| 14:41.11 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@62.57.220.185.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 14:41.13 | SpeedEvil | Azalyn: works just fine at submultiples of the display |
| 14:41.23 | AzalynHD | the fullscreen game will switch the res. |
| 14:41.43 | SpeedEvil | Azalyn: 1/2 or 1/3 res is blocky, but completely sharp |
| 14:42.03 | AzalynHD | i was curious to ask why that was not being done to be honest. |
| 14:42.17 | AzalynHD | because i know that with desktop lcd's you can do it. |
| 14:42.25 | AzalynHD | even though it usually ends up looking a little blurry |
| 14:42.34 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't - if it's properly done |
| 14:42.47 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r9ed5b5a19159 10/TODO: gsm0710muxd: add TODO file with things to take care of before 1.0 and 1.1 |
| 14:42.47 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r309ae0384159 10/TODO: gsm0710muxd: add more TODO entries |
| 14:42.56 | zash | fast moving things tend to be blury anyways |
| 14:43.11 | AzalynHD | that feature is normally for crt's because they could do arbitrary resolutions, unlike lcd's which have a 'native' res. |
| 14:43.58 | AzalynHD | but even so, i thought it might be a good solution. i didn't mention it because i figured someone would've already thought about it and discounted the possibility. :\ |
| 14:44.30 | zash | SpeedEvil: as long as it wont flicker when it goes from qvga to vga |
| 14:44.34 | SpeedEvil | It only works well if you expand the picture by an integer factor. |
| 14:44.41 | SpeedEvil | zash: true |
| 14:44.57 | SpeedEvil | For example going VGA-QVGA-160*120 |
| 14:45.08 | SpeedEvil | Which has one pixel become 4, or 16 |
| 14:47.11 | bagpuss_thecat | mjr: was the "well yes of course" directed at my question? :-) |
| 14:47.34 | *** join/#openmoko Varox_NB (n=doug@p4FD47633.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:47.55 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@68-27-97-246.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 14:49.54 | *** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.137.2) |
| 14:50.31 | *** join/#openmoko fluffiey (n=fluffiey@82.96.63.58) |
| 14:52.00 | zash | SpeedEvil: so, qvga gives 103ppi |
| 14:52.32 | zash | from 285ppi |
| 14:53.19 | *** join/#openmoko dioptik_ (n=chatzill@85.14.182.46) |
| 14:54.25 | zash | and most computer screens have ~90-100 ppi |
| 14:54.44 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey-t (n=emonkey@static-pro-212-101-27-121.adsl.solnet.ch) |
| 14:56.09 | *** join/#openmoko kdingo (n=kdingo@zone1.robinson.cam.ac.uk) |
| 14:57.21 | *** part/#openmoko kdingo (n=kdingo@zone1.robinson.cam.ac.uk) |
| 14:58.36 | AzalynHD | Is there a WQVGA ? :) |
| 14:59.07 | AzalynHD | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_QVGA |
| 14:59.14 | AzalynHD | oh my god, i was just joking. :| |
| 15:01.17 | *** join/#openmoko sindre (n=sindre@ti221110a081-5581.bb.online.no) |
| 15:01.24 | zash | AzalynHD: there is shitloads of XWQVGA-ish acronyms |
| 15:02.13 | zash | and very few of them are standardized |
| 15:04.52 | zash | sqrt(320*320+240*240)/2.8 ~= 142 |
| 15:05.17 | zash | 103 seemed off |
| 15:16.54 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar_ (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 15:17.09 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@ip-87-108-60-5.customer.academica.fi) |
| 15:19.37 | *** join/#openmoko apol_ (i=apol@62.57.220.185.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 15:20.05 | *** join/#openmoko aboyer (n=aboyer@bas1-ottawa23-1096708796.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 15:20.54 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z68e5.z.pppool.de) |
| 15:24.27 | *** join/#openmoko tux1337 (n=tux1337@Md6f3.m.pppool.de) |
| 15:28.14 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-143.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 15:29.18 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.140) |
| 15:33.21 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A571FD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:34.41 | *** join/#openmoko erikwt (n=erikwt@holmen.surfsnel.dsl.internl.net) |
| 15:37.33 | *** join/#openmoko raff_ (n=raff@77-57-75-126.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:39.59 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@83.68.218.53) |
| 15:46.12 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 15:47.04 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 15:48.06 | *** join/#openmoko Deubeuliou (n=david@AFontenayssB-151-1-73-243.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:52.54 | *** join/#openmoko XekSa (n=92@91.203.168.121) |
| 15:55.25 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e181162132.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:55.44 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178110182.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:57.00 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@78-22-5-158.access.telenet.be) |
| 15:57.23 | *** join/#openmoko imcsk8 (n=ichavero@nat.ti.uach.mx) |
| 16:00.48 | *** join/#openmoko sindre (n=sindre@ti221110a081-5581.bb.online.no) |
| 16:03.34 | *** join/#openmoko Outlander (n=outlande@unaffiliated/outlander) |
| 16:04.15 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=tim@ppp-88-217-60-94.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 16:08.58 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=kdean06@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 16:15.11 | *** part/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e181162132.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:15.27 | *** join/#openmoko folken (n=folken23@193.219.115.210) |
| 16:20.08 | *** join/#openmoko onisac (n=ale@p5B0734E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:20.26 | *** join/#openmoko Obri (n=daniel@sonne.alt-f4.ch) |
| 16:22.20 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=tim@ppp-88-217-60-94.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 16:23.08 | *** join/#openmoko folken (n=folken23@sonne.alt-f4.ch) |
| 16:25.36 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@129.84-49-131.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:27.48 | *** join/#openmoko madwoota (i=mad@204.8.218.159) |
| 16:28.47 | *** join/#openmoko roterguru (n=chatzill@p5B161EDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:29.31 | *** join/#openmoko Obri (n=daniel@sonne.alt-f4.ch) |
| 16:32.18 | *** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.142.109) |
| 16:33.23 | *** part/#openmoko BDo (n=bdonnett@linagoraberri.pck.nerim.net) |
| 16:34.58 | *** join/#openmoko maskeye (i=maskeye@62-90-76-87.barak.net.il) |
| 16:35.32 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db7d889.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 16:35.52 | *** part/#openmoko maskeye (i=maskeye@62-90-76-87.barak.net.il) |
| 16:38.43 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@218-166-203-22.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 16:39.45 | *** part/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=gzba4143@AMontsouris-153-1-43-17.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:43.07 | *** join/#openmoko Obri (i=daniel@sonne.alt-f4.ch) |
| 16:43.40 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@62.135.96.15) |
| 16:43.48 | *** join/#openmoko folken (i=folken@sonne.alt-f4.ch) |
| 16:48.26 | *** join/#openmoko Blastur (i=Blastur@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 16:49.23 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 16:55.10 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@209.167.232.100) |
| 16:57.27 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@adsl-69-232-195-12.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 17:00.04 | *** join/#openmoko apol (i=apol@62.57.220.185.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 17:06.21 | *** join/#openmoko key_ (n=key@nat/ibm/x-1fe2318810cda36c) |
| 17:07.56 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@24.143.69.253) |
| 17:11.41 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=tim@ppp-88-217-60-94.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 17:19.35 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host150-168-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:24.17 | bmidgley | Psi, mjr it's easier to work with a bt keyboard by just removing the multitap package |
| 17:29.25 | *** join/#openmoko apol (i=apol@62.57.220.185.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 17:30.37 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@ip-62-143-162-134.hsi.ish.de) |
| 17:35.28 | wurp2 | bmidgley: What are you doing when you don't have the bt keyboard or otherwise aren't in a position to use it? |
| 17:36.11 | wurp2 | The first thing I do after re-imaging is to remove the multitap and add back in the openmoko-keyboard anyway, but it's still a slight PITA to keep having to close the kbd when I'm using bt |
| 17:37.46 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 17:41.55 | *** join/#openmoko tubastian (n=tubastia@p508CBE1F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:43.46 | *** join/#openmoko mafia (n=etop4u@195.166.237.254) |
| 17:44.05 | mafia | why |
| 17:45.22 | *** part/#openmoko mafia (n=etop4u@195.166.237.254) |
| 17:46.41 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar_ (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:46.44 | zash | is there no show_onscreen_keyboard() if bluetooth_keyboad_exists? |
| 17:47.42 | zash | ehm, + an ! |
| 17:48.07 | zash | if !bt_kbd? |
| 17:48.43 | zash | what manages the onscreen keyboard? |
| 17:48.54 | wurp2 | zash: Apparently not |
| 17:49.25 | wurp2 | 'cause when I connect my bt kbd and e.g. go to the terminal, I have to close the sw kbd manually |
| 17:49.37 | zash | mm |
| 17:49.44 | wurp2 | There is a daemon that manages the on screen kbd |
| 17:50.00 | wurp2 | Not sure of the name |
| 17:50.08 | zash | phoned? |
| 17:50.09 | wurp2 | But it apparently knows nothing about bt kbds |
| 17:50.09 | zash | neod? |
| 17:50.16 | zash | or usb |
| 17:50.28 | wurp2 | Well, I've never connected a usb kbd |
| 17:50.31 | wurp2 | but presumably no |
| 17:50.41 | wurp2 | Since even getting usb into host mode is a manual process |
| 17:51.00 | zash | some "is there an external kbd connected?" logic then |
| 17:52.54 | wurp2 | well, it would be nice to have a HID dbus daemon that announces when HIDs are attached/removed |
| 17:53.14 | wurp2 | then it would be easy to make the osther stuff behave properly |
| 17:53.19 | wurp2 | s/osther/other/ |
| 17:54.16 | AzalynHD | is that a bot? :| |
| 17:54.26 | wurp2 | apt is, yep |
| 17:55.39 | AzalynHD | s/a bot/one of those weird bots/ |
| 17:55.40 | *** part/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@193.204.59.123) |
| 17:55.49 | AzalynHD | hah. |
| 17:56.21 | wurp2 | ~lart AzalynHD |
| 17:56.21 | apt | crushes AzalynHD with a full height scsi disk |
| 17:57.00 | AzalynHD | :| |
| 17:57.06 | AzalynHD | is it a different one every time? |
| 17:57.11 | AzalynHD | ~lart wurp2 |
| 17:57.11 | apt | moos at wurp2 |
| 17:57.22 | AzalynHD | :| |
| 17:57.50 | AzalynHD | ~lart SpeedEvil |
| 17:57.50 | apt | burns SpeedEvil to a crisp with a laser |
| 17:58.17 | *** join/#openmoko jeffdameth (n=jeff@dyndsl-080-228-186-243.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 17:59.03 | zash | ~rape itself |
| 17:59.04 | apt | ACTION takes itself behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams |
| 18:01.08 | SpeedEvil | grabs AzalynHD, immobilises him, secures him to an operating table, duct-tapes his eyelids open, removes his eyeballs, and rotates them 90 degrees before reinstalling them. |
| 18:01.58 | AzalynHD | what makes you think i'm a him! |
| 18:02.08 | AzalynHD | :P |
| 18:02.45 | zash | This is the Internet! |
| 18:03.03 | AzalynHD | not that again... :| |
| 18:03.20 | zash | Where men are men, women are men, and children are FBI agents. |
| 18:03.21 | zash | ;) |
| 18:03.27 | AzalynHD | http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ |
| 18:03.28 | AzalynHD | :P |
| 18:03.38 | AzalynHD | There's a howto for everything. |
| 18:05.08 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@78-22-5-158.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:05.46 | wurp2 | Does anyone know if there are plans for Zad or zhone to run alongside OM and QTopia in the grand new vision? |
| 18:05.54 | SpeedEvil | tries to think of other females in this channel. |
| 18:06.43 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: I know of one who used to chat here a lot, but I can't think of her handle right now |
| 18:07.07 | wurp2 | She had a s&m site, I think the handle started with an a |
| 18:07.14 | SpeedEvil | Me too, vaguely. |
| 18:07.20 | wurp2 | abraxa? |
| 18:07.35 | wurp2 | yep, her |
| 18:08.39 | zedstar_ | there was a female on the mailing list who named her dog Moko! |
| 18:08.59 | wurp2 | There are several female looking names on the mailing lists |
| 18:09.43 | wurp2 | I prefer to not make a big deal out of it - I would love for it to finally just not matter what gender someone is except when dating |
| 18:09.53 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 18:10.19 | SpeedEvil | It'd be so nice if the whole 'Oh a girl!' thing wasn't an issue as they were common. |
| 18:10.47 | zedstar_ | yeh who cares if they are male or female when cybering ;) |
| 18:11.14 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.136) |
| 18:12.00 | SpeedEvil | puts zedstar on ignore PMs. |
| 18:12.11 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 18:12.29 | zedstar_ | winks at speedevil |
| 18:13.23 | zash | the internet! |
| 18:13.35 | zash | the ASUM |
| 18:15.45 | bagpuss_thecat | you don't want to wink at SpeedEvil. He's from Perth |
| 18:16.20 | SpeedEvil | No I'm not. |
| 18:16.21 | zedstar_ | i should have asked him ASL first ;) |
| 18:16.34 | Tanuva | whats bad about perth? |
| 18:16.39 | SpeedEvil | 13/f/cali |
| 18:16.55 | zedstar_ | uhuh oh |
| 18:18.33 | mjr | too old for me |
| 18:18.34 | SpeedEvil | I'm actually about 20 miles sw of Perth |
| 18:18.55 | SpeedEvil | SE I mean. |
| 18:19.28 | SpeedEvil | (scotland, not australia) |
| 18:19.36 | zash | {pseud,an}onymity ftw |
| 18:20.46 | abraxa_ | wurp2: Yeah? |
| 18:20.51 | zedstar_ | changing the subject slightly....anyone seen/done/got a bluetooth logger which logs to something like sqlite? |
| 18:21.13 | SpeedEvil | I've filled in most of http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=56.1933&lon=-3.1659&zoom=12&layers=B0FT with the aid of my neo. |
| 18:21.23 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: for hat? |
| 18:21.34 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: you mean GPS? |
| 18:21.42 | zedstar_ | speedevil nah bluetooth |
| 18:22.06 | SpeedEvil | A2DP, BIP, ... |
| 18:22.51 | zedstar_ | wanna log the MAC and broadcast address and time etc to sqlite for scanned devices just wondering if anyone done this |
| 18:23.12 | bagpuss_thecat | SpeedEvil: oh? like Auchterarder? :-) |
| 18:23.20 | bagpuss_thecat | aah, SE |
| 18:23.32 | bagpuss_thecat | that's even worse :-) |
| 18:24.00 | *** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl) |
| 18:29.42 | *** join/#openmoko mboldisc (n=mike@c-66-41-225-167.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 18:29.45 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@81-237-230-160-no83.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 18:34.08 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e44b94c.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 18:34.56 | wurp2 | abraxa_: Sorry, I left the _ off to try to avoid bugging you :-) SpeedEvil was just trying to remember women he'd seen chatting here |
| 18:37.09 | *** join/#openmoko juri_ (n=juri@ip70-178-3-140.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 18:37.42 | juri_ | well thats different. this time, my openmoko managed to get online, can make calls, but dosent see any of the contacts stored on my sim card. |
| 18:37.46 | *** join/#openmoko suuuper (n=suuuper@ppp-203-182.32-151.iol.it) |
| 18:38.09 | wurp2 | juri_: It wasn't that long ago that it never saw contacts on the sim card |
| 18:38.50 | wurp2 | juri_: If your contacts are all ascii, I have a script that will import them all from SIM into the OM contact db |
| 18:39.43 | wurp2 | That is, it will import them assuming that whatever issue is preventing OM from seeing them doesn't also hinder my script |
| 18:42.25 | zedstar_ | btw are contacts stored in sqlite on ASU? |
| 18:43.16 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@logan.freelock.com) |
| 18:44.16 | wurp2 | I know next to nothing about ASU |
| 18:44.43 | zedstar_ | i seem to remember reading that qtopia stored stuff in sqlite |
| 18:44.51 | zedstar_ | the iphone is also doing this |
| 18:47.19 | kdean06 | I think that's the case, but I left it at home so I can't check. :S |
| 18:47.40 | *** join/#openmoko zeno_ (n=andrew@c-75-70-202-80.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 18:47.40 | kdean06 | I beleive one of the lists had a survey and found that most of the data is stored in sqlite in Qtopia. |
| 18:48.10 | ljp | yes, most data is stored in sqlite |
| 18:48.21 | zedstar_ | i guess it makes sense...not everything needs a dbus interface! |
| 18:48.50 | zash | not everything needs to be stored in fancy formats |
| 18:51.51 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@209.167.232.101) |
| 18:52.27 | wurp2 | Does anyone know if there are plans to migrate the QTopia distributed w/ OM to get its phone services via dbus? |
| 18:53.24 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182059137.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:53.58 | wurp2 | Oh, hey kdean06! |
| 18:54.04 | wurp2 | Congratulations, you lucky bastard! |
| 18:54.11 | kdean06 | :D |
| 18:54.22 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel_ (n=fsteinel@pD9FBC740.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:54.23 | juri_ | wurp2: i prefered having all my contacts on the sim, so that i could switch phones, and not lose contacts. do you have a script for going the other way? |
| 18:54.43 | wurp2 | juri_: Nope, but it's not too hard to write |
| 18:56.08 | wurp2 | kdean06: Are you still going to be doing 01 reviews? |
| 18:56.20 | ljp | juri_: qtopia can import/export contacts to sim |
| 18:56.23 | kdean06 | For sure. :) |
| 18:56.45 | wurp2 | Yay! |
| 18:56.47 | kdean06 | I haven't done them for a while simply because buildhost hasn't make anything since the 9th. |
| 18:57.01 | wurp2 | Yeah, I bitched loud & long about the build process |
| 18:57.03 | kdean06 | I tried a GTA01 version of the ASU and it failed. I'd have reviewed it if it worked. |
| 18:57.12 | wurp2 | The end result seems to be that not much changes |
| 18:57.25 | wurp2 | I was encouraged that they're moving off monotone |
| 18:57.51 | wurp2 | I may just end up setting up an automated continuous integration host myself |
| 18:59.00 | kdean06 | As far as I know, the break was simply because the ASU stopped building. |
| 18:59.00 | wurp2 | I'll set it to email build failures to the openmoko-devel list, and either get myself kicked off the list or improve build quality :-) |
| 18:59.06 | malik1972 | kdean06: where can i find an asu gta01 image? |
| 18:59.22 | wurp2 | Oh, I see lots of complaints about the builds failing on openmoko-devel |
| 18:59.24 | SpeedEvil | kdean06: "" |
| 18:59.43 | wurp2 | Not sure what build they are referring to... looked like the old one, not ASU |
| 19:00.07 | kdean06 | malik1972, mmontour built it himself and scp'ed it to my personal server. It failed to boot past the splash screen. My server also seems to be not responding right now. :P |
| 19:00.20 | kdean06 | SpeedEvil, Yes? |
| 19:00.50 | *** join/#openmoko angelr (n=angelr@ip-64-32-229-194.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) |
| 19:01.16 | malik1972 | kdean06: asu killed your server?;-) |
| 19:01.19 | SpeedEvil | kdean06: I meant 'ditto' - I was also interested |
| 19:01.28 | SpeedEvil | oh well - if it doesn't boot... |
| 19:01.48 | kdean06 | No, I don't really know why my server is dead. :P |
| 19:02.48 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@89-172-48-254.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 19:05.22 | *** join/#openmoko kgilmer_ (n=kgilmer@ip-64-32-229-194.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) |
| 19:05.30 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host81-159-127-19.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:05.41 | angelr | I just wanted to inform everyone that I have edited http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MacOS_X#Apple_CDC_Ethernet_driver_10.5.x with information on where and how to get a patched 10.5.X USB driver to allow g_ether based devices to work correctly. Please take it out for a spin and provide feedback. |
| 19:06.02 | zash | kdean06: your server is dead? oh noes :( |
| 19:06.12 | juri_ | dead servers are bad, mmkay? |
| 19:06.19 | *** join/#openmoko mirezwer (n=mirezwer@171-175-222-85.adsl.verat.net) |
| 19:06.51 | malik1972 | dean06: monochromementality.com was also down 12 hours ago |
| 19:07.02 | kdean06 | Well, the server seems reponsive, doesn't have high latency, has adequate CPU et ceteral... It's just not loading. If i reload apache it works for a moment but then dies again. |
| 19:07.10 | kdean06 | Yeah. :( |
| 19:07.15 | *** join/#openmoko Tanu_ (n=tanuva@d122002.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 19:07.22 | kdean06 | I'm backing it up and dropping it on a better server. |
| 19:08.18 | zash | kdean06: monochromementality.com ? |
| 19:08.42 | kdean06 | Yes. |
| 19:08.44 | malik1972 | kdean06: did mmontour had success with asu on gta01 or someone else? |
| 19:09.01 | *** part/#openmoko juri_ (n=juri@ip70-178-3-140.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 19:09.02 | kdean06 | Neither. As far as I know, there's not been a working build for GTA01. |
| 19:09.19 | zash | kdean06: I'we been trying to mirror it, but failed |
| 19:09.23 | zash | on my servor |
| 19:09.32 | mmontour | kdean06: Nice to see your Freerunner pics. I hope you'll be able to provide another data point about phone-call audio quality (echo, etc.) on the Freerunner. |
| 19:10.11 | mmontour | malik1972: The most success I've had so far was converting the gta02 ASU image from downloads.openmoko.org to the gta01 jffs2 format. |
| 19:10.48 | mmontour | The one I built for kdean06 was from org.openmoko.dev, not april-update (I think; it's whatever MokoMakefile had as a default at the time) |
| 19:11.23 | kdean06 | mmontour, Yeah. There's a bunch of questions I've seen on the list and I intend to answer them as soon as I have time to get them all gathered and have time to answer them. |
| 19:11.56 | malik1972 | mmontour: org.openmoko.dev? |
| 19:12.02 | kdean06 | I left the 02 at home so I can't test anything now, but I get a 3-day weekend so I should have plenty of time to do it. |
| 19:12.26 | mmontour | malik1972: That's the branch label in the new git repository |
| 19:12.49 | zash | yay for google cache |
| 19:13.42 | malik1972 | mmontour: how you convert jffs2 to tgz? |
| 19:15.48 | mmontour | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image#Converting_a_GTA02_image_for_GTA01 , but create a .tar.gz of the mounted directory instead of calling mkfs.jffs2 |
| 19:16.24 | kdean06 | I absolutely love scp. :) |
| 19:16.55 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 19:17.12 | malik1972 | thanx |
| 19:23.20 | *** join/#openmoko _rob_ (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 19:28.24 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: wonderful job on this gsm daemon! |
| 19:29.19 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@pD9E0A551.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:30.56 | *** join/#openmoko mboldisc (n=mike@c-66-41-225-167.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 19:40.17 | *** join/#openmoko clare (n=clare@144.107.233.220.exetel.com.au) |
| 19:40.27 | *** join/#openmoko dougt_ (n=dougt@guest-226.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 19:42.44 | *** part/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182059137.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:46.39 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK_ (i=root@82.177.19.205) |
| 19:46.47 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@h86n6c1o1036.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 19:55.41 | *** join/#openmoko malsyned (n=dpl@adsl-75-26-148-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:55.47 | *** join/#openmoko NineX (i=ninex@gentoo.netzone.kom.pl) |
| 19:55.51 | *** part/#openmoko clare (n=clare@144.107.233.220.exetel.com.au) |
| 19:56.35 | malsyned | Is there any info out there about why QT delivers so much better performance than GTK? I ask here because I just read the ars article about OpenMoko switching to Qtopia. |
| 19:56.56 | Blastur | url article |
| 19:56.58 | *** part/#openmoko tux1337 (n=tux1337@Md6f3.m.pppool.de) |
| 19:57.03 | malsyned | http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080522-openmoko-linux-mobile-phone-ditches-gtk-gets-qt-and-e17.html |
| 19:57.13 | woglinde | so funny |
| 19:58.16 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182059137.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:58.27 | woglinde | hm oh he interviewed raster it seems |
| 19:59.22 | woglinde | and peeked at zecke's blog |
| 20:00.18 | malsyned | Is GTK+ really that bad on mobile platforms, or is it just that Qtopia had more of the kinds of components that OpenMoko needed complete already? |
| 20:01.04 | zash | malsyned: the last part i think |
| 20:01.08 | malik1972 | kdean06: your server is up again |
| 20:01.30 | kdean06 | I restarted Apache again. :S |
| 20:01.31 | *** join/#openmoko tux1337 (n=tux1337@Md6f3.m.pppool.de) |
| 20:01.32 | zash | duno how god gtk realy is for a mobile platform |
| 20:01.41 | woglinde | malsyned read zeckes blog |
| 20:01.49 | woglinde | gmsd is the root of al evil |
| 20:01.58 | woglinde | qtopia stack on thisnt perfect either |
| 20:02.02 | woglinde | but works better |
| 20:02.09 | zash | also, nothing is perfect |
| 20:02.11 | malik1972 | kdean06: can i find the gta01 asu image on the server? |
| 20:02.51 | malik1972 | converting gives me an error: FATAL: Error inserting mtdram ... Cannot allocate memory |
| 20:03.00 | kdean06 | malik1972, If you really want it, I can give put it in a public space. But it does NOT work. |
| 20:03.09 | lpotter | I hear developing with gtk is a nightmare |
| 20:04.17 | *** join/#openmoko Tuju (n=tuju@50.157.190.90.sta.estpak.ee) |
| 20:04.27 | malik1972 | kdean06: not sure anymore, if i want it .. i only emulate things with qemu-arm |
| 20:05.57 | malik1972 | kdean06: i guess the chances to get it run are zero |
| 20:06.34 | kdean06 | Right. It crashes, you have no X server and doesn't respond to SSH. |
| 20:06.47 | kdean06 | I mean dead. The only thing that can be said for it is that it compiled. |
| 20:07.02 | ahven | <malik1972> converting gives me an error: FATAL: Error inserting mtdram ... Cannot allocate memory << same error |
| 20:07.23 | malik1972 | ahven: dmesg|tail |
| 20:07.26 | *** part/#openmoko malsyned (n=dpl@adsl-75-26-148-146.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:08.37 | malik1972 | kdean06: did you tried the following: jffs2 original -> tgz -> sd -> boot from sd |
| 20:08.41 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@a81-84-27-88.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 20:09.33 | ahven | allocation failed: out of vmalloc space - use vmalloc=<size> to increase size. |
| 20:10.10 | kdean06 | malik1972, No. Quite honestly, it's not worth trying that for. I write my reviews from an end user perspective. I wouldn't expect my wife to do that, so I'm not going to waste my time on it. :P |
| 20:12.29 | malik1972 | ahven: honestly, i am also an end user, no idea;-) |
| 20:13.46 | malik1972 | ahven: google say, increase the size by giving grub an optional parameter |
| 20:13.49 | bmidgley | wurp2: the openmoko keyboard doesn't show up in the repository any more |
| 20:14.33 | malik1972 | kdean06: i hope i will see more of the stuff on the freerunner before i buy it |
| 20:16.24 | kdean06 | malik1972, If you wanna play with it, the image is here. http://foreverdean.info/kevin/downloads/openmoko/Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image-glibc-ipk-P1-Snapshot-20080521-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 20:16.34 | kdean06 | But as I said... It doesn't work. :) |
| 20:17.44 | *** part/#openmoko tessier_ (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) |
| 20:18.16 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: 03stefan * r058e42e9e1ca 10/src/zhone: |
| 20:18.16 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: Document the workaround for the one char invisible bug with comments in the code. |
| 20:18.16 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Stefan Schmidt <stefan@datenfreihafen.org> |
| 20:19.32 | mmontour | ahven: Try a smaller size (e.g. 65536) for the mtdram module - as long as it's bigger than the image you're copying into it it should be OK. |
| 20:20.43 | ahven | 65536 - no go |
| 20:20.56 | ahven | 32768 fits though |
| 20:21.19 | malik1972 | kdean06: i guess my download hangs |
| 20:21.32 | kdean06 | :S |
| 20:21.37 | kdean06 | My server is full of suck today. |
| 20:21.53 | *** part/#openmoko tux1337 (n=tux1337@Md6f3.m.pppool.de) |
| 20:23.19 | malik1972 | 65536 works for me |
| 20:26.39 | malik1972 | i see some boots:-) |
| 20:28.10 | malik1972 | xserver does not start: no space left on device |
| 20:29.21 | *** part/#openmoko p3t3r__ (n=peter@wlan.net-you.de) |
| 20:29.23 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD9539AFC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:31.35 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=bmk789@c-98-223-16-230.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 20:32.23 | zash | kdean06: do you have more suck than this: http://pic.zash.se/gladius-aids.jpg |
| 20:32.25 | *** join/#openmoko milos_ (n=milos@92.36.158.206) |
| 20:34.23 | kdean06 | I don't think so. :) Mine runs Debian, at least. :D |
| 20:34.47 | kdean06 | Celeron and Windows... geeze, host on a Neo, you'd get a speed boost. |
| 20:35.19 | zash | kdean06: Not that i run windows on it. It did have XP on it when i got it thou |
| 20:35.26 | zash | but i installed debian on it |
| 20:35.32 | zash | and currently its ubuntu |
| 20:35.45 | kdean06 | No comment. :P |
| 20:35.56 | zash | note: XP was sloooow |
| 20:37.45 | *** join/#openmoko aloril_ (n=aloril@h138134.gprs.dnafinland.fi) |
| 20:38.07 | zash | duno how they even got it to run with 64MiB RAM |
| 20:38.27 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@kensentme.xs4all.nl) |
| 20:39.04 | *** join/#openmoko key (n=rmlmb@cpe-24-28-17-170.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 20:39.36 | *** join/#openmoko tux1337 (n=tux1337@Md6f3.m.pppool.de) |
| 20:43.23 | *** part/#openmoko tux1337 (n=tux1337@Md6f3.m.pppool.de) |
| 20:44.39 | *** join/#openmoko V0lle (n=volle@p5481DA3B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:44.59 | *** part/#openmoko V0lle (n=volle@p5481DA3B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:46.18 | *** join/#openmoko Antenagora (n=antenago@d90-131-79-204.cust.tele2.it) |
| 20:47.09 | fenfir | lots of patience and limited access to hammers, i used to work in this computers shop and one day this guy made us install xp on his formerly windows 98 computers |
| 20:47.58 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@adsl-69-232-195-12.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 20:47.58 | fenfir | it's a horrific experience |
| 20:49.16 | tedo | you got payed per hour, i hope |
| 20:49.21 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 20:50.41 | woglinde | fenfir urgs |
| 20:52.26 | CVirus | is turning 19 in 8 minutes |
| 20:52.57 | zash | tried to get debian onto a old computer that used to run win95 when bought |
| 20:53.00 | zash | failed |
| 20:53.25 | zash | CVirus: pre-congrats then |
| 20:53.41 | CVirus | thanks :-D |
| 20:58.47 | *** join/#openmoko milos__ (n=milos@92.36.156.109) |
| 21:00.02 | zash | CVirus: congrats then |
| 21:00.09 | zash | 11:00:09 PM |
| 21:00.45 | CVirus | thanks :-D |
| 21:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko wipf (n=wipf@dslb-084-056-215-137.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:03.28 | *** part/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@HSI-KBW-091-089-001-218.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 21:03.58 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peepsalo@bwext.kpimdp.com) |
| 21:09.01 | kdean06 | My server was full of suck because it was being upgraded. |
| 21:09.08 | kdean06 | Neat. |
| 21:15.01 | ahven | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=6436+S+Oakley+Ave,+Chicago,+IL+60636&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=28.611123,60.292969&ie=UTF8&ll=41.780049,-87.680275&spn=0.00656,0.01472&t=k&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.776747,-87.681011&panoid=R4fqWJEJkVCRco2uu3GK9Q&cbp=1,248.03517600888696,,1,8.383780676689486 |
| 21:17.17 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@h-79-136-2-44.NA.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 21:24.51 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar_ (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 21:25.31 | zash | lol wut |
| 21:29.10 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde_ (i=woglinde@e178113080.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:34.55 | *** part/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182059137.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:34.57 | *** join/#openmoko _3v1n0_ (n=Trevi@host248-131-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:37.34 | *** join/#openmoko milos__ (n=milos@92.36.161.250) |
| 21:39.20 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972_ (n=malik197@e182055100.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:40.32 | *** part/#openmoko malik1972_ (n=malik197@e182055100.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:51.10 | *** join/#openmoko nab_ (n=nab@64-172-115-11.ded.pacbell.net) |
| 21:54.50 | *** join/#openmoko Yanroy (n=rmeador@68-118-224-229.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 21:55.08 | Yanroy | hi all |
| 21:55.48 | Yanroy | quick question... I'm playing with qemu with the latest images it'll give me when I use mokomakefile to do "download-images" |
| 21:55.56 | Yanroy | is that still the old stuff, or is that qtopia? |
| 21:56.05 | Yanroy | and more importantly, how do I get a qwerty keyboard? |
| 21:57.54 | zash | Yanroy: if it's black and flashy, then its asu, i think |
| 21:58.13 | Yanroy | it's grey and orange |
| 21:58.19 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178014053.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:58.23 | kdean06 | zash, Define "flashy". :) |
| 21:58.24 | Yanroy | and kinda blocky... not like the mockups on the wiki |
| 21:59.04 | *** join/#openmoko malik1972 (n=malik197@e182055100.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:00.55 | zash | kdean06: freerunner1.4.swf |
| 22:01.18 | kdean06 | Yeah... ASU isn't flashy then. :D |
| 22:01.50 | Yanroy | huh? |
| 22:01.56 | kdean06 | It still needs a lot of love visually. The image I used didn't have icons except for like... Three apps. :P |
| 22:02.04 | kdean06 | So it's black blocks on a black background. :P |
| 22:02.08 | zash | asu != e-stuffs? |
| 22:02.29 | Yanroy | is there a command I can run to figure out hte version? |
| 22:02.32 | kdean06 | zash, It is. It's just not looking like the flash demo, at least not right now. |
| 22:02.34 | Yanroy | ... or to open a qwerty keyboard? |
| 22:02.49 | kdean06 | It COULD do that, but the theming is horribly broken right now, incomplete and stuff. |
| 22:03.29 | kdean06 | Yanroy, No, the QWERTY keyboard was removed from those images because it was buggy. They then put in the multitap one which broke more stuff. :) |
| 22:03.49 | Yanroy | how can a keyboard be buggy? |
| 22:05.16 | kdean06 | Yanroy, Try browsing the net holding down the ENTER key. That's pretty much the idea. |
| 22:05.25 | Yanroy | lol... |
| 22:05.38 | Yanroy | seems easy enough to fix... |
| 22:05.40 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:05.40 | kdean06 | Or writing an e-mail. :) Or entering a contact. |
| 22:05.50 | kdean06 | I was told it was not. :P |
| 22:05.56 | Yanroy | nice |
| 22:06.19 | Yanroy | I hope I'm not going to have develop an entire software suite of my own to make this usable when I get one... |
| 22:06.51 | Yanroy | I fully intend to do some minor work and bugfixes, but I'm really hoping for a functional phone |
| 22:07.04 | Yanroy | basically, I just want a bash terminal in my pocket :P |
| 22:08.28 | Yanroy | so does the ASU have a qwerty keyboard? I guess I'll give up on qemu until then |
| 22:09.16 | kdean06 | Yanroy, Yes, it does, though I'm not sure the specifics of it. |
| 22:09.23 | kdean06 | Or... It will. |
| 22:10.27 | Yanroy | ok |
| 22:10.29 | Yanroy | thanks |
| 22:10.44 | Yanroy | I'll give it a try again when I see ASU being put out on the mailing list... |
| 22:14.08 | balrog-kun | on-screen keyboards are not really handy in qemu |
| 22:14.25 | *** part/#openmoko ohin_CZ (n=opera@a02-0702a.kn.vutbr.cz) |
| 22:14.40 | kdean06 | Yeah. The real keyboard works just fine. :) |
| 22:16.17 | mwester | Why does my phone suddenly have a picture of a pair of boots on the display as it boot up? <rolling-eyes> |
| 22:17.00 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:17.12 | mmontour | mwester: It suggests appropriate footwear for the next stage in the process, when you stomp on it and then kick it across the room because nothing else works :) |
| 22:17.34 | mwester | I sense the work of raster here... |
| 22:17.34 | kdean06 | mwester, Isn't it obvious? It's a boot screen! |
| 22:17.49 | kdean06 | mwester, Yes, it's rasters. Wait till it crashes, you'll have proof. |
| 22:17.54 | mwester | And that pathetic wimper of a startup sound... |
| 22:18.07 | kdean06 | 01 or 02? |
| 22:18.16 | mwester | Ah, there we go -- the familiar gigantic LED clock. |
| 22:18.20 | mwester | 02 |
| 22:18.39 | kdean06 | I didn't notice the whimper. |
| 22:18.43 | kdean06 | Hrm.. |
| 22:19.02 | mwester | It perplexes me why we insist on using so many pixels in full color, to emulate a seven-segment LED display. :D |
| 22:20.03 | kdean06 | I've wondered the same, actually. I just relegate that thing to the tiny mode and put a pleasing woman in the background, unless I'm thinking of a different clock. |
| 22:20.06 | *** join/#openmoko SirBob1701 (n=mcginley@pool-72-81-34-153.phlapa.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:21.23 | mwester | Nope, that's the one. I also put it in tiny mode, and change the background. It seems a shame to take that fabulous LCD and limit it to B&W. I get many comments on the screen, now that I pick a more dynamic image for a background. |
| 22:21.26 | *** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:22.00 | CM | mwester: I noticed the boots too |
| 22:22.08 | CM | Couldn't make calls with that image though :( |
| 22:22.15 | CM | Built today, om |
| 22:22.19 | kdean06 | mwester, Color does amazing things to that screen. :) http://monochromementality.com/index.php/photos/album/13/photo/95.html |
| 22:22.56 | kdean06 | What image are you using that has that clock though? |
| 22:23.03 | mwester | CM: I just built a new image today as well; I'll test the calls. That would be unfortunate, I need that to work to test some GSM-related patches. |
| 22:23.04 | kdean06 | Oh, one you built yourself. |
| 22:23.38 | mwester | The standard image for now; I'm building the qtopia stuff as well. I'll try that later. |
| 22:24.01 | CM | I couldn't get qtopia to build properly |
| 22:24.12 | CM | som x errors, can't remember |
| 22:25.05 | mwester | I killed the build when XorA|gone committed a change that fixed something like that; and started over. Hopefully it will finish (it's nearly done I think)( |
| 22:25.48 | balrog-kun | now someone is going to commit some even better fix minutes before you finish :) |
| 22:29.39 | *** join/#openmoko mirezwer (n=mirezwer@71-173-222-85.adsl.verat.net) |
| 22:30.45 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789_ (n=bmk789@c-98-223-16-230.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 22:31.05 | mwester | balrog-kun: ;) I'll kill the build then, and wait.... |
| 22:34.15 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@ppp-71-139-48-90.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 22:35.08 | *** join/#openmoko gopi_ (n=gopi@ppp-71-139-48-90.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 22:37.42 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK (i=root@82.177.19.205) |
| 23:02.18 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc1-acto9-0-0-cust931.brnt.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:02.27 | *** join/#openmoko mire (n=mirezwer@151-172-222-85.adsl.verat.net) |
| 23:04.47 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@89.142.234.171) |
| 23:05.02 | *** join/#openmoko exco (n=exco@e181074196.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:08.16 | *** join/#openmoko juri_ (n=juri@ip70-178-3-140.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 23:08.35 | juri_ | can someone add an item to the wishlist for me? i don't want to set up an account for just one thing. |
| 23:09.35 | juri_ | i've looked in the source of the dialer application, and found that the length of a ringtone is hard coded. it'd be nice if either we got to set this value, or oif the audio library actually payed attention to the length, and repeated when it was *done*. |
| 23:12.31 | *** join/#openmoko mire__ (n=mirezwer@238-174-222-85.adsl.verat.net) |
| 23:13.41 | *** join/#openmoko Varox_NB (n=doug@p4FD44D28.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:16.09 | *** part/#openmoko juri_ (n=juri@ip70-178-3-140.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 23:22.48 | *** join/#openmoko Kt_ (n=Kirsat@96.243.196.167) |
| 23:30.33 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@201.82.9.119) |
| 23:30.58 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree (n=df@218.82.112.51) |
| 23:40.30 | *** join/#openmoko mire (n=mirezwer@221-173-222-85.adsl.verat.net) |
| 23:53.25 | *** join/#openmoko wipf_ (n=wipf@dslb-084-056-215-137.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:56.44 | *** join/#openmoko avoine (n=avoine@pdpc/supporter/active/avoine) |
