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| 00:15.38 | Bastian | hi @ all |
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| 00:30.24 | zeno_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:30.39 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 00:30.49 | SpeedEvil | But not - at least initially - large video. |
| 00:30.57 | SpeedEvil | and openmoko is the OS |
| 00:31.00 | SpeedEvil | not the device |
| 00:33.36 | zeno_ | ah ok, meant the freerunner, and specifically the ~700mb avis |
| 00:33.50 | SpeedEvil | It probably won't play that class of video. |
| 00:34.13 | zeno_ | drat :( i jsut got my PS3 to play most things with a specialized mplayer |
| 00:34.14 | SpeedEvil | At least not at first - that class will rely on the inbuilt video decoding of the GPU |
| 00:34.45 | SpeedEvil | It will play small video just fine. |
| 00:34.46 | zeno_ | ah ok, great it even has a GPU, ( the ps3 effectively doesnt) |
| 00:35.10 | SpeedEvil | Well - unfortunately in many ways, the graphics performance might be better without it. |
| 00:35.32 | SpeedEvil | The only really good feature for video that it has is scaling. |
| 00:35.33 | zeno_ | ill probably buy a tiny usb keyboard, im not a big fan of the on-screen ones |
| 00:35.48 | SpeedEvil | And video decoding - but the video decoding is not close to implemented. |
| 00:35.49 | zeno_ | ah whys that? |
| 00:36.11 | SpeedEvil | Because it's basically a suckier chipset than it looked at first. |
| 00:36.29 | SpeedEvil | It has a transfer rate equivalent to a 16 bit ISA video card. |
| 00:36.40 | zeno_ | ouch |
| 00:36.45 | SpeedEvil | And that transfer rate is shared with the SD card. |
| 00:37.14 | SpeedEvil | PArt of that is offset by the 2D accel in the GPU. |
| 00:37.22 | SpeedEvil | But only part. |
| 00:40.19 | *** join/#openmoko juri_ (n=juri@ip70-178-33-171.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 00:40.37 | juri_ | how do i make my openmoko actually ring? |
| 00:40.41 | juri_ | its set to vibrate. |
| 00:41.19 | Bastian | you have a freerunner, yet? |
| 00:41.27 | juri_ | 1973. |
| 00:41.32 | Bastian | ah, ok |
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| 00:42.12 | juri_ | i compiled everything a few days ago.. but it dosent actually ring. |
| 00:42.14 | Bastian | there was a bug in gta01, but i don't know which version |
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| 00:42.25 | juri_ | so, this is current cvs/svn. |
| 00:46.59 | juri_ | mine dosent have a preferences application. :/ |
| 00:48.47 | Bastian | sorry, I can't help you. I just have an old image for qemu |
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| 00:56.22 | Bastian | good night |
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| 02:14.17 | Sonicadvance | Question, on the freerunner, it says that it has USB 1.1, Anyone know why it isn't 2.0? |
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| 02:19.37 | rwhitby | Sonicadvance: the SoC doesn't do 2.0 |
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| 02:19.51 | rwhitby | so that would have been an extra chip required |
| 02:20.11 | Sonicadvance | Ah, I see |
| 02:20.31 | Sonicadvance | If only it supported Firewire instead ;D |
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| 03:15.17 | juri_ | if only my 1973 supported.. oh say... ringing... or hitting numbers while i was on the phone, so i could navigate menus... ;) |
| 03:19.47 | Daemonax | Why would you want it to ring while you're on the phone? |
| 03:20.17 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@aditya.openmoko.org) |
| 03:20.22 | nab | waves |
| 03:20.27 | nab | Greetings raster |
| 03:20.51 | raster | moo |
| 03:21.16 | nab | That was seriously fun this morning. |
| 03:21.24 | nab | The Windows fellow. |
| 03:21.25 | nab | :-) |
| 03:21.26 | raster | mooing was fun? |
| 03:21.31 | raster | oooh |
| 03:21.38 | raster | that |
| 03:21.44 | nab | Almost too easy. |
| 03:21.45 | nab | :P |
| 03:22.02 | raster | i'm actually rather bored of the whole windows vs linux thing |
| 03:22.08 | raster | totally "so last week" |
| 03:22.14 | raster | i like choclate |
| 03:22.17 | raster | he lieks vanilla |
| 03:22.19 | raster | deal with it |
| 03:22.25 | raster | :) |
| 03:22.29 | fenfir | yeah, mac is the best :) |
| 03:22.32 | raster | i'm sticking to my chocolate |
| 03:22.42 | raster | skewers the troll |
| 03:22.51 | nab | <nod> |
| 03:23.18 | nab | As one might say |
| 03:23.23 | raster | fenfir: they have a place for you.. it's under the bridge... with your iphone :) hehehehe |
| 03:23.27 | nab | "That discussion is so pre VA-IPO" |
| 03:23.31 | nab | :-) |
| 03:23.32 | fenfir | haha |
| 03:23.37 | raster | (and yes - i know it was a joke) |
| 03:23.38 | raster | :) |
| 03:23.55 | raster | nab: don't remind me of those days... |
| 03:23.59 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 03:24.09 | nab | That was supposed to be a joke. |
| 03:24.25 | raster | i was at va |
| 03:24.30 | nab | I know. :-) |
| 03:24.32 | nab | hehehe |
| 03:24.39 | nab | notes his comedy is awful on IRC |
| 03:24.42 | raster | and most employees got rather screwed on stock |
| 03:25.08 | nab | notes he once tried to get $$ from Larry Augstin |
| 03:25.19 | nab | Once he left VA and starting do his VC thing |
| 03:25.20 | raster | a few i know are still paying off bills to the irs thanks to pre-taxing of suspected profits... that never happened |
| 03:25.23 | nab | But that is another story. ;P |
| 03:25.30 | nab | Ugh |
| 03:25.37 | raster | that apr shit |
| 03:25.42 | raster | where if your options are $1 |
| 03:25.45 | nab | It sucks when a company does not setup the stock plan properly |
| 03:25.47 | raster | and current price $10 |
| 03:25.59 | raster | irs taxes you on PURCHASe o a profit of $9 |
| 03:26.02 | raster | even if u dont sell |
| 03:26.10 | raster | then of coruse stock tanks to $0.5 |
| 03:26.19 | raster | but u still ow the irs tax of $9 per share |
| 03:26.23 | raster | hoo-fucking-ray |
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| 03:26.43 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 03:26.52 | nab | Still though, better LWCEs back then |
| 03:26.53 | raster | anyway |
| 03:26.59 | raster | i dont want to think about that stuff |
| 03:27.11 | nab | My apolgoes for bringing it up. |
| 03:27.19 | raster | no worries |
| 03:27.22 | raster | :) |
| 03:27.24 | nab | Well today, they don't let sub 18 kids into LWCE |
| 03:27.33 | nab | Its only for "Open Source Professionals" |
| 03:27.36 | raster | back to making my code nicer |
| 03:27.42 | *** part/#openmoko fenfir (n=fenfir@ppp-70-254-35-180.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) |
| 03:27.49 | raster | first |
| 03:27.52 | nab | The sub 18 kids where the most interested ones when you showed them your wares |
| 03:27.52 | *** join/#openmoko fenfir (n=fenfir@ppp-70-254-35-180.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) |
| 03:27.55 | raster | let me do my mornign rebuild |
| 03:28.00 | nab | But anyways. |
| 03:28.03 | nab | :-) |
| 03:28.07 | raster | yeah - i remember that |
| 03:28.18 | raster | and those 18 year old kids are now professionals |
| 03:28.21 | raster | usijng and promoting oss |
| 03:29.01 | nab | That was probably the most fun I had @ LWCE was working the booths and playing carnival barker showing off a hack. :-) |
| 03:29.14 | nab | Definately. |
| 03:29.41 | nab | Not selling a whole lot mind you, but really showing folks something they had never seen. :P |
| 03:29.53 | raster | hehehe |
| 03:30.06 | raster | i'm really keen on the whole opne phone thing tho |
| 03:30.07 | nab | Fun stuff. |
| 03:30.08 | raster | linux on phones |
| 03:30.16 | nab | Very cool. |
| 03:30.18 | raster | i think its going to be the start of a whole new thing |
| 03:30.26 | raster | something ms cant beat with its 98% market share |
| 03:30.26 | nab | I would be hard pressed not to agree. |
| 03:30.31 | raster | somthing where u have multiple players |
| 03:30.35 | raster | but no one owning 90%+ |
| 03:30.49 | raster | linux likely will take 60% of the phone market in the next decade |
| 03:30.56 | raster | not 90% |
| 03:31.04 | nab | listens |
| 03:31.04 | raster | i suspect winmob will still be around |
| 03:31.09 | raster | apple is the new dark horse entrant |
| 03:31.12 | nab | Heh |
| 03:31.22 | nab | Well, MSFT can't get an iSCSI Initiator running on their mobile stuff |
| 03:31.26 | raster | i didn't see that coming 7 years ago when i did my analysis |
| 03:31.36 | nab | (They where always one of the ones drooling over that during demos @ LWCE) |
| 03:31.45 | nab | But now we have that. :-) |
| 03:31.49 | raster | hehehe |
| 03:31.58 | raster | actually iscsi does seem nice |
| 03:31.58 | nab | Actually, we have had it all along. |
| 03:32.01 | nab | :-) |
| 03:32.16 | raster | though it seems to have a fairly specific use case |
| 03:32.23 | nab | There have been alot of doubters for the mobile block level IP storage stuff over the years. |
| 03:32.41 | nab | And I am still not sure if it will actually end up being simply "remote filesystem mounts" for the long term. |
| 03:33.12 | nab | I think the lightweight cluster filesystem stuff with RO mounts for mobile access is pretty interesting |
| 03:33.15 | raster | somehow i suspect smb or some other remote file sharing proto to really b the way things will go |
| 03:33.28 | raster | local flash/storage would be for private data and "cache" |
| 03:33.39 | nab | Well |
| 03:33.43 | raster | as these fs's would need to be functional in offline mode too |
| 03:33.47 | nab | I have a link for you about that.. :-) |
| 03:33.56 | nab | (I have put years of thought into this :-) |
| 03:34.02 | raster | sure |
| 03:34.19 | raster | i've put about 10 minutes thought into it |
| 03:34.20 | raster | :) |
| 03:34.21 | nab | http://linux-iscsi.org/index.php/ISCSI/GSM |
| 03:34.40 | nab | There is a section near the bottom wrt NAS/SAN on celluar links |
| 03:34.52 | nab | Actually |
| 03:34.54 | nab | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:34.54 | nab | Lack of support for multiple communication paths and active-active recovery on communication path failure for starters. (see below) Also the lack of world wide unique naming (WWN) and discovery infrastructure does not help when it comes to scaling towards millions of nodes. |
| 03:35.26 | raster | sure |
| 03:35.31 | raster | but scsi is block-level |
| 03:35.35 | raster | thats a problem |
| 03:35.40 | nab | Even the discovery bit wrt ISCSI needs another protocol (iSNS) to really scale the node count. |
| 03:35.47 | nab | iSNS == Internet STorage Naming Service |
| 03:35.52 | raster | unless u run the same fs on top |
| 03:35.52 | nab | Basically DNS for iSCSI and iFCP sans |
| 03:35.57 | raster | and everyone agrees to runt he same fs |
| 03:35.59 | nab | RFC-4171 for those keeping track. ;-) |
| 03:36.00 | raster | and u enforce that;.. |
| 03:36.04 | nab | raster: WElll |
| 03:36.11 | nab | I have also thought about that problem for years |
| 03:36.13 | nab | :-) |
| 03:36.15 | raster | then again - i may have a simplistic view of iscsi |
| 03:36.22 | nab | The solution I have come up with is the following |
| 03:36.26 | raster | as just an ip replacement transport for scsi |
| 03:36.37 | nab | yeah, its definately not that. :-) |
| 03:36.53 | nab | So, you have a LIO-VM running an iSCSI Initiator |
| 03:37.04 | nab | With all of the Linux FS drivers, include OCFS2 for the shared storage cluster mount |
| 03:37.16 | nab | These LIO-VMs are running R/W mounts |
| 03:37.25 | raster | ocfs2 is open? |
| 03:37.31 | nab | The mobile stuff running embedded linux also has these storage goodies |
| 03:37.33 | nab | <nod> |
| 03:37.39 | nab | GPL since v1 |
| 03:37.54 | nab | (The author was an early investor in my former startup) |
| 03:37.57 | nab | but anyways |
| 03:37.59 | raster | and ocfs2 handles simultaneous read and write from multiple clients and doesnt result in a totally fucked up fs? |
| 03:38.33 | nab | Well, it was originally designed for high speed shared storage for Oracle Datbases. |
| 03:38.50 | nab | And I use for self hosted production @ linux-iscsi.org |
| 03:38.57 | nab | Recently, I ported it over to the Maemo stuff |
| 03:39.04 | raster | sure |
| 03:39.14 | nab | http://linux-iscsi.org/index.php/OCFS2/iSCSI_for_OS-2008 |
| 03:39.17 | raster | but how well will it work over high latency links with often low or abysmally low bandwidth? |
| 03:39.41 | raster | (yes it does improve all the time.. but gsm vs 100mbit+lan is quite a world apart) |
| 03:39.41 | raster | :) |
| 03:39.58 | nab | Yes, so obvious ISDN speeds for GPRS is not going to work with much other than R/O mounted ext3 a few GB large |
| 03:40.02 | raster | and yes |
| 03:40.04 | nab | (That is what I know works) |
| 03:40.05 | juri_ | i'll just be glad when my cellphone is usable. :) |
| 03:40.09 | *** join/#openmoko exastra (n=go@75.148.80.90) |
| 03:40.11 | nab | Soo, that means 3G and WiMax |
| 03:40.12 | raster | cost for ovet-the-air bandwdith is a majof factor |
| 03:40.17 | raster | (reading your stuff) |
| 03:40.19 | nab | At least for the long term |
| 03:40.34 | raster | sure |
| 03:40.38 | nab | I have been using ESX devices with GPRS for a while for the basic stuff |
| 03:40.40 | juri_ | t this point, my neo is not quite usable. its won't *ring*. |
| 03:40.44 | raster | even 3g vs 3.5g is quite a difference |
| 03:40.45 | nab | eg: the 2 GB ext3 mounts |
| 03:40.46 | raster | especially latency |
| 03:40.58 | nab | So, I have been talking with the OCFS2 folks about this.. |
| 03:40.59 | raster | and juri is right |
| 03:41.05 | juri_ | it'll vibrate, but i can't find any documentation on making my phone actually RING when i get a call. |
| 03:41.05 | raster | we need the core stuff working and solid first |
| 03:41.06 | raster | ie |
| 03:41.08 | raster | phone calls |
| 03:41.09 | raster | sms |
| 03:41.11 | nab | The Wireless R/O mounts |
| 03:41.18 | raster | power-saving modes (suspend/resume etc.) |
| 03:41.22 | raster | basic basic ui |
| 03:41.27 | nab | <nod> |
| 03:41.27 | raster | and basic data sessions |
| 03:41.34 | raster | get that stuff really solid |
| 03:41.42 | nab | ACtually, I have been running into problems on the N800 bringing in a 900 GB ext3 mount |
| 03:41.43 | raster | and experiment with some things on top like iscsi |
| 03:41.43 | raster | nfs |
| 03:41.46 | raster | smb |
| 03:41.47 | raster | whatever |
| 03:42.01 | nab | With 5000 albums in a awful directory layout (a single dir :-) |
| 03:42.08 | raster | and once the base is rock solid bring the experiments into the areana one by one |
| 03:42.21 | nab | <nod> |
| 03:42.29 | nab | The idea with LIO-OpenMoko is two fold: |
| 03:42.36 | nab | wrt the developers |
| 03:43.02 | juri_ | if anyone has a moment, i'd really like my phone to ring. even if it won't place calls reliably. my FSF mandate says "use it!" ;P |
| 03:43.05 | nab | Allow basically unlimited storage access with iSCSI using Linux/Mac/Win on the target side with LIO-VM |
| 03:43.15 | nab | LIO-VM == iSCSI Target running in a virtual machine |
| 03:43.21 | raster | btw |
| 03:43.31 | raster | with iscsi (readng) is there any way it can work offline? |
| 03:43.33 | nab | eg: you plug in a USB drive to the VM, it automatically gets exported, and you can see it on your openmoko device |
| 03:43.54 | *** join/#openmoko mickeyl (i=mickey@80.81.242.146) |
| 03:44.10 | nab | raster: You mean similar to what things like CodaFS does for offline access..? |
| 03:44.14 | raster | yup |
| 03:44.18 | raster | example: |
| 03:44.26 | raster | i have my addressbook/calendar |
| 03:44.34 | raster | i want to get rid of this syncing goop |
| 03:44.42 | raster | i want to just put the data in a fs blob |
| 03:44.57 | raster | when i go home and on 802.11 it reconnects to my home "san" and syncs up changes |
| 03:45.04 | raster | or i plug in a usb thumbdrive |
| 03:45.07 | raster | or usb hdd |
| 03:45.23 | nab | Well, I can't say I have ever heard of anyone doing offline operation below the FS layer.. |
| 03:45.31 | raster | or if i am on a 3g network and i have an unlimited dataplan it is sncing to a server the telco provides for me as part of my access plan |
| 03:45.37 | raster | so if i lose my phone - never worry |
| 03:45.44 | raster | i have multiple copies of my stuff |
| 03:45.44 | nab | And definately traditional iSCSI (RFC-3720 was not designed to do that. |
| 03:45.46 | raster | buy new phone |
| 03:45.49 | raster | put in credentials |
| 03:45.55 | raster | bam - all the stuff syncs back down |
| 03:45.57 | *** join/#openmoko mickeyl (i=mickey@80.81.242.146) |
| 03:46.00 | raster | local cache populates |
| 03:46.03 | raster | if i am offlines |
| 03:46.08 | raster | i can read/write at will and not care |
| 03:46.13 | raster | THATS what i want |
| 03:46.21 | nab | So that sounds more like a local FS feature, that once it determined the VFS request was not coming back for an extended period of time.. |
| 03:46.33 | raster | sure |
| 03:46.35 | raster | i know |
| 03:46.36 | nab | It would make the local write to memory, and then let the equivilant of sync() complete |
| 03:46.48 | raster | thats why i believe a fs layer solution is what it will end up being |
| 03:46.49 | nab | I dont' know if any of the real next gen FS stuff is working on that |
| 03:46.56 | nab | stuff like brtfs |
| 03:47.07 | nab | <nod> |
| 03:47.09 | raster | right now u have a collection of sync pprotocol goop thats just awful |
| 03:47.24 | nab | <nod> |
| 03:47.25 | raster | syncml |
| 03:47.26 | juri_ | i'm more worried about working than i am syncing. :) |
| 03:47.30 | raster | microsoft's activsync |
| 03:47.34 | raster | plam's old stuff |
| 03:47.34 | raster | ... |
| 03:47.37 | raster | mpre of them around |
| 03:47.44 | raster | juri_: i know :) |
| 03:47.44 | nab | Oh btw, so back to the points for LIO-OpenMoko devs |
| 03:47.55 | juri_ | raster: jpilot! :) |
| 03:47.59 | nab | So 1) A target side LIO-VM that is completed automated that runs on Linux/mac/Win |
| 03:48.00 | raster | juri_: hell - only yesterday did my gta02 finally suspend and resume. and not totally fuck up on resume |
| 03:48.03 | nab | Which is done |
| 03:48.04 | raster | so.... |
| 03:48.15 | juri_ | so thats why my phone keeps dieing. :) |
| 03:48.17 | raster | take that as a relative state of things |
| 03:48.18 | raster | :) |
| 03:48.25 | nab | And 2) Make iSCSI initiator access on GTA02 the fastest method to access a struct block_device |
| 03:48.43 | nab | I believe I saw something like 900Kb for userspace tcp tests with that wifi ASIC, yes..? |
| 03:48.57 | raster | suspend takes 2 seconds or so |
| 03:49.03 | raster | resume last i timed it was about 5-8 seconds |
| 03:49.07 | raster | which is useless really |
| 03:49.12 | nab | Actually, 2b) should be allow the largest filesytems mounts to exist over LIO-OpenMoko |
| 03:49.26 | nab | Because we will be testing that 900 GB mount. :-) |
| 03:49.34 | raster | as we have currently no viable low power mode we can go in/out of that is fast to go into and come back out of |
| 03:49.38 | raster | so screw calls... |
| 03:49.39 | raster | :) |
| 03:50.04 | nab | Ok, so the userspace network I/O tests with Wifi on the GTA02 are ~900 Kb/sec, yes..? |
| 03:50.16 | raster | nab: thats all fine.. :) ut i dont think its really a killer network fs for mobiles |
| 03:50.26 | raster | as we need to deal with going on/off the network all the time |
| 03:50.40 | raster | a fs-lvel solution i really see is more likely to win the space there |
| 03:50.58 | nab | raster: As I mentioned above traditional iSCSI eg: "remote filesystem mounts below block) may not be the long term solution |
| 03:50.59 | raster | mobiles are powerful little machines so cpu, ram etc. isnt an issue for any of this |
| 03:51.20 | nab | (This is another one of those projects I have been looking at for years :-) |
| 03:51.27 | nab | Sure |
| 03:51.33 | nab | Btw, iSCSI has been run in DSLinux |
| 03:52.01 | nab | And could easily push 125 Kb/sec on the 70 Mhz MMUless ARM |
| 03:52.11 | nab | (That was the limit of the SIO bus between the two chips btw) |
| 03:52.41 | nab | So yes, I agree it comes down to network connectivity for the mobile case |
| 03:53.05 | nab | But there are LIO-DEVs who are using iSCSI Initiators in VMs on 3g networks |
| 03:53.16 | nab | With very good results so far. |
| 03:53.48 | nab | But the Openmoko phones are the first ones that I can really push the iSCSI/GRPS stuff to the limit and see what it does |
| 03:54.05 | nab | As I mentioned above, debugging on ESX is pretty hard |
| 03:54.45 | nab | Oh yeah, with iSCSi there is a bunch of nice stuff for active-active recovery of storage tasks, and the ability to multiplex acorss multiple TCP streams |
| 03:54.52 | raster | yeah |
| 03:54.56 | nab | Or simply use SCTP and multihoming |
| 03:54.57 | nab | :-) |
| 03:54.59 | raster | network connectivity is he big factor |
| 03:55.04 | nab | (WHich is also supported is the current builds) |
| 03:55.09 | raster | and i dont see the world being 100% covered at all times any time soon |
| 03:55.10 | raster | :) |
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| 03:55.17 | nab | <nod> |
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| 05:16.22 | fenfir | does anyone know where i can find the cp command that is cause me grief when i do 'make openmoko-devel image' |
| 05:16.23 | fenfir | | Making install in tests |
| 05:16.23 | fenfir | | make[3]: Nothing to be done for `install-exec-am'. |
| 05:16.24 | fenfir | | make[3]: Nothing to be done for `install-data-am'. |
| 05:16.24 | fenfir | | cp: illegal option -- t |
| 05:16.24 | fenfir | | usage: cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-fi | -n] [-pvX] source_file target_file |
| 05:16.26 | fenfir | | cp [-R [-H | -L | -P]] [-fi | -n] [-pvX] source_file ... target_directory |
| 05:16.28 | fenfir | NOTE: Task failed: /Users/fenfir/Documents/moko/qemu/build/tmp/work/i386-darwin/autoconf-native-2.61-r1/temp/log.do_stage.29937 |
| 05:17.52 | juri_ | i'd recomend changing out your cp binary for a cp script that echoes its arguments to a file, and calls the real CP. that way you'll know where it stopped. |
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| 05:57.28 | emdete | fenfir: it looks like the wrong cp is used, looks like one from busybox... |
| 05:58.19 | fenfir | yeah, it is the wrong cp, i'm trying to find it and see if i can drop the -t and move the destination to the end |
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| 06:00.24 | fenfir | unfortunately the OE os x site on their wiki is currently vandalized, so i'm stucking figuring this crap out, though i'm sure there is an easier way somewhere |
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| 06:52.10 | Outlander | hi |
| 06:52.15 | Outlander | what's this group all about http://www.openhandsetalliance.com ? |
| 06:52.38 | doc|home | meh, android |
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| 06:52.56 | Outlander | yeah |
| 06:52.58 | Outlander | what's the go with it? |
| 06:53.36 | Outlander | so the freerunner will run whatever, but debian runs on it currently? |
| 06:55.08 | doc|home | nope, openmoko runs on it :) |
| 06:55.20 | doc|home | which is a heavily modified almost-debian |
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| 06:56.15 | Outlander | hehe ah ok |
| 06:56.29 | rtm | You can actually run a full debian, if you wish. |
| 06:56.37 | Outlander | so is there a chance down the line of just whacking ubuntu mobile on it? that kinda idea |
| 06:57.09 | doc|home | most likely, might be missing drivers though |
| 06:57.14 | pyknite | it seem's that nokia is trying to port ubuntu on the nokia n800&co |
| 06:57.19 | rtm | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian |
| 06:57.19 | doc|home | would probably involve patching |
| 06:57.24 | pyknite | and for arm in general |
| 06:57.43 | doc|home | pyknite: I have an n800, should be interesting |
| 06:58.10 | doc|home | heh, gimp on a mobile phone. opensource++ :) |
| 06:58.36 | Outlander | n800 is arm too? |
| 06:58.39 | rtm | Yeah, I'll bet gimp really screams on a machine with no hardware floating point. |
| 06:58.43 | doc|home | Outlander: yep |
| 06:58.48 | doc|home | rtm: heh |
| 06:58.55 | pyknite | doc|home: http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2008/04/23/nokia-internet-tablets-get-ubuntu-and-qt |
| 06:59.05 | pyknite | Outlander: yeah |
| 06:59.08 | doc|home | pyknite: thanks |
| 06:59.35 | Outlander | cool |
| 06:59.47 | doc|home | I'd kind of like if there'd be one toolkit, having two is a bit bloated on such a small device :/ |
| 06:59.51 | Outlander | n800 looks neato...how easy/hard is it to type with that touch screen? |
| 06:59.59 | Outlander | spose you could use a bluetooth keyboard |
| 07:00.16 | doc|home | Outlander: I wouldn't want to write the complete works of doc on it, but it's usable |
| 07:00.25 | Outlander | heh ah ok cool |
| 07:00.31 | Outlander | so i can irc and im from it? ;) |
| 07:00.37 | pyknite | it a sort of sponsoring... but i don't know why, because nokia just have bought trolltech |
| 07:01.00 | doc|home | yep, you won't win any debates in irc though, *tap* *poke* *tap* *backspace* *tap* |
| 07:01.28 | doc|home | the n810 has a proper(ish) keyboard |
| 07:01.34 | doc|home | much more expensive though :/ |
| 07:02.11 | Outlander | that the one where the keyboard pops out? |
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| 07:02.51 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:03.04 | buz | Outlander: sliding keyboard |
| 07:04.27 | doc|home | Outlander: yep |
| 07:04.32 | pyknite | yep, but the last version have no keyboard |
| 07:04.46 | doc|home | pyknite: the n810 does |
| 07:05.51 | pyknite | doc|home: yeah i know, i was talking about the last version (n800,n770) ;) |
| 07:06.00 | doc|home | ah |
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| 07:06.12 | doc|home | smells an excuse :P |
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| 07:07.22 | buz | n800 is pretty cheap in the us |
| 07:07.32 | doc|home | nods |
| 07:07.41 | buz | but the keyboard and the gps are really quite neat :P |
| 07:08.15 | doc|home | then you want an n810, not so cheap :) I don't care about gps personally, even on a phone, and I use it for reading articles in cafes, not so much for typing |
| 07:09.19 | pyknite | there is a gps? great!! |
| 07:09.27 | pyknite | f*cking school's connection |
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| 07:14.18 | buz | i cant say i care for the gps very much |
| 07:14.26 | buz | but the keyboard and somewhat smaller size might be worth it |
| 07:14.34 | buz | i would have bought it long ago if only it had gsm |
| 07:15.10 | pyknite | same... but i think is a little too big for a phone |
| 07:15.14 | doc|home | yeah |
| 07:15.21 | doc|home | doesn't exactly fit in your pocket |
| 07:15.34 | rtm | Ya gotta figure with Nokia's volume they could have put gsm in for another 35 cents. |
| 07:15.36 | Outlander | small price to pay for freedom |
| 07:15.46 | buz | it's not that much bigger than my current p900 really |
| 07:15.48 | Outlander | oh you mean n800 ? |
| 07:15.52 | Outlander | heh |
| 07:15.53 | doc|home | rtm: that's why it's an internet tablet, not a phone :) |
| 07:16.13 | buz | yeah but why wimax and not umts |
| 07:16.16 | doc|home | if it had gsm I'd probably care less, not being able to afford canadian data rates |
| 07:16.24 | doc|home | buz: wimax isn't a gsm tech |
| 07:16.40 | buz | yeah exactly, which means you cant use it anywhere, really |
| 07:16.58 | buz | doc|home: if it had gsm, you could use it as phone |
| 07:17.06 | buz | swiss datarates are pretty outrageous too |
| 07:17.13 | Outlander | lol |
| 07:17.15 | buz | but still a lot cheaper than SMS |
| 07:17.19 | Outlander | australian ones are mucho crappo |
| 07:17.20 | doc|home | buz: It has voip and can do diamondcard call out (and call in if you pay for that) |
| 07:17.31 | Outlander | but with 3g getting cheaper... |
| 07:17.34 | doc|home | or skype |
| 07:17.42 | buz | yeah but without an uplink VoIP is useless |
| 07:17.57 | doc|home | some people are just never happy ;) |
| 07:18.14 | buz | i just think its dumb not to build an umts version |
| 07:18.18 | buz | it would sell like hotcakes |
| 07:18.36 | buz | otoh it might have prevented neo from ever being started |
| 07:18.54 | doc|home | nah, it's still has a lot of closed components, and getting more closed as time passes |
| 07:19.15 | buz | yes but only the very purists would care for that |
| 07:19.33 | rtm | doc|home: In what way is it getting *more* closed? |
| 07:19.36 | buz | hell i have a notebook that runs entirely on OSS, but i would buy a gsm n810 in a heartbeat |
| 07:19.37 | doc|home | to be honest, if the freerunner had been released, I'd never have bought a n800 |
| 07:19.48 | doc|home | rtm: I can't remember off-hand, sorry :/ |
| 07:20.02 | buz | i think the omap datasheets are public |
| 07:20.18 | buz | the gsm speaks NMEA from what i know |
| 07:20.24 | buz | leaves the wifi, mostly |
| 07:20.36 | doc|home | buz: we're talking about the n8x0 |
| 07:20.40 | buz | yes |
| 07:20.41 | raster | buz: cannibalism |
| 07:20.43 | buz | runs on omap |
| 07:20.49 | doc|home | the n8x0 doesn't have gsm |
| 07:20.53 | raster | buz: by putting in gsm they'd cnnibalise sales of the n95 and other phones |
| 07:20.58 | buz | raster: yeah i know |
| 07:21.06 | buz | but still, could price it at n95 price point |
| 07:21.10 | raster | with the n8xx as it is they sell it as a phone ADD-ON |
| 07:21.13 | Outlander | whats the n95 like anyway? it run linux ? |
| 07:21.17 | raster | like add a big external screen to your phone |
| 07:21.28 | raster | Outlander: no - runs symbian |
| 07:21.31 | buz | sure, but how many people really buy a n95 to pair it with n8xx |
| 07:21.39 | buz | most will probably buy the lowest end umts phone |
| 07:21.41 | raster | buz: thery dont |
| 07:21.47 | raster | but they use their current phone |
| 07:21.52 | raster | or need to buy a phone - any phone |
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| 07:22.05 | buz | someone in nokia's marketing department has their ass where the sun don't shine |
| 07:22.10 | buz | oh wair |
| 07:22.22 | raster | if it did gsm then they would have people going "n95 OR n800.. which?" |
| 07:22.22 | buz | damnit |
| 07:22.26 | raster | rahter than thinking of both |
| 07:22.49 | buz | i doubt the n95 buying crowd is very much overlapping with n8xx crowd |
| 07:23.09 | raster | it may not be n95 |
| 07:23.13 | raster | it may be n73 |
| 07:23.16 | raster | or any other phone |
| 07:23.21 | raster | as nokia has such a huge market share |
| 07:23.29 | raster | chances are that the phone someone will buy |
| 07:23.33 | raster | if a cheap faturephone |
| 07:23.39 | raster | or anything else is very likely a nokia |
| 07:23.40 | buz | yeah gimme a n820 with umts at the price of a n810 + n73 and i buy it. right now i dont buy anything :P |
| 07:23.59 | raster | well their marketing dept disagrees with you |
| 07:24.01 | raster | :) |
| 07:24.05 | raster | but u asked why |
| 07:24.06 | raster | :) |
| 07:24.07 | doc|home | buz: see, I'd never have bought that because it'd be waaaay too expensive. I have a phone thanks |
| 07:24.17 | doc|home | I don't need another one, especially one that *massive* |
| 07:24.24 | buz | their marketing dept is somewhat special anyhow. still no touchscreen phones in 2008 for chrissakes |
| 07:24.36 | buz | doc|home: yeah but i dont want to carry two devices |
| 07:24.48 | Outlander | how is it possible that heaps of companies havent copied apple's iphone by now |
| 07:24.56 | buz | they have |
| 07:24.56 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r6611abf3a787 10/mickeyterm/mickeyterm: python-helpers: add mickeyterm |
| 07:24.57 | Outlander | i mean their ipod got ripped off straight away didnt it? |
| 07:25.03 | buz | tried to anyway |
| 07:25.06 | pyknite | because iphone suck :D |
| 07:25.12 | buz | lg and samsung have iphone like devices |
| 07:25.12 | doc|home | buz: you're thinking about it wrong I think. I mean, I see it more as a laptop-type device only much smaller. |
| 07:25.34 | buz | doc|home: thats what nokia wants you to think |
| 07:25.44 | buz | i see it as the phone that could have been |
| 07:25.47 | Outlander | what's crap about iphone? the best part of it must just be the interface yeah? and i spose the software to use the interface |
| 07:25.48 | doc|home | the style of device is from the n770 remember. There was nothing like it in the phone market then. |
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| 07:26.16 | doc|home | right, sleep time, night |
| 07:26.33 | buz | right now, htc is stealing alot of pda phone marketshare from nokia |
| 07:26.48 | buz | they basically have nothing to put against tytn'esque devices |
| 07:27.06 | pyknite | nokia are making a touch device |
| 07:27.14 | buz | which one |
| 07:27.59 | buz | they sold one once, but it was merely a rebranded benq uiq thingy |
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| 07:29.19 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r85a0ec26f2c6 10/mickeyterm/mickeyterm: fix file format |
| 07:29.30 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.19.77.2) |
| 07:30.02 | pyknite | buz: i see a news the other days |
| 07:30.09 | pyknite | cant find it now |
| 07:30.40 | pyknite | or i was dreaming ;) |
| 07:37.05 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@lbcsi.fri.uni-lj.si) |
| 07:41.12 | buz | http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/05/06/motorola-a1600-ming-2-garners-fcc-approval/ now this is interesting |
| 07:41.20 | buz | all the a1200 was missing was wifi |
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| 08:25.22 | CIA-43 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4415 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (4 files in 3 dirs): opkg: add extra data to libopkg progress callbacks |
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| 08:42.41 | XorA | According to the judgment posted on PACER, an injunction was also ordered against TorrentSpy. Interestingly, Valence Media can retain possession of the site, however is barred from indexing copyrighted works in the future. |
| 08:43.03 | XorA | so the judge has said that they can keep the domain name, but its now impossible to use |
| 08:43.15 | XorA | even an index.html with one link would be illegal |
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| 08:55.51 | raster | XorA: yo yo |
| 08:55.58 | XorA | hey raster |
| 08:56.17 | XorA | raster: big icons look much better in illume thanks |
| 08:56.29 | raster | u flipped to icon mode? |
| 08:56.48 | XorA | raster: no, I rendered the qtopia icons much bigger |
| 08:56.53 | raster | or just used big solid pics to test? |
| 08:56.57 | raster | aaah |
| 08:57.04 | raster | no solid piccies yet |
| 08:57.16 | XorA | some look ok, some are obviously just small bitmaps hidden in svg files |
| 08:57.25 | raster | hehehe |
| 08:57.37 | raster | btw |
| 08:57.47 | XorA | Ill leave it to art dept to pick photos |
| 08:57.52 | raster | NOTE: package linux-openmoko-1_2.6.24+git20080508-r0: task do_configure: started |
| 08:57.52 | raster | ERROR: function do_configure failed |
| 08:57.52 | raster | ERROR: log data follows (/home/raster/moko2/build/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-1_2.6.24+git20080508-r0/temp/log.do_configure.31371) |
| 08:57.52 | raster | | cp: cannot stat `/home/raster/moko2/build/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-1_2.6.24+git20080508-r0/git/defconfig-gta02': No such file or directory |
| 08:57.53 | raster | NOTE: Task failed: /home/raster/moko2/build/tmp/work/om-gta02-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/linux-openmoko-1_2.6.24+git20080508-r0/temp/log.do_configure.31371 |
| 08:57.56 | raster | NOTE: package linux-openmoko-1_2.6.24+git20080508-r0: task do_configure: failed |
| 08:57.58 | raster | seen that? |
| 08:58.20 | XorA | raster: touch conf/local.conf |
| 08:58.29 | XorA | raster: you been hit by day changeover problem |
| 08:58.38 | raster | ooho poohbarbumpoo[ |
| 08:58.53 | raster | why me |
| 08:58.54 | XorA | raster: because johncylee used SRCDATE, that changes everyday so directory name changes |
| 08:58.55 | raster | why hwy.... |
| 08:59.20 | raster | waits for his mtn upate |
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| 09:34.50 | Tyrael | hi all |
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| 09:46.06 | flexd | yawns |
| 09:52.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1384 has been created by t-lo(AT)entropiesenke.de |
| 09:52.02 | cdbot2 | * * QEmu usb gadget support broken for kernel =< 2.6.23 |
| 09:52.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1384 |
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| 10:21.20 | Tyrael | there will be a discount for gta01 owners for buyng freerunner? |
| 10:21.41 | rtm | I don't think so. |
| 10:28.57 | mjr | no |
| 10:29.28 | mjr | they were pondering about that on gta01 release, but instead dropped its price directly |
| 10:30.30 | raster | everyone gets a discount! |
| 10:30.33 | raster | aren't we nice! |
| 10:30.34 | raster | :) |
| 10:31.23 | mjr | yes, and/or you want to survive ;) |
| 10:32.27 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@82.201.174.38) |
| 10:33.04 | SpeedEvil | cues Diana Ross - I will survive! on the OpenMoko careoke machine. |
| 10:36.38 | ScaredyCat | dances |
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| 10:47.13 | rtm | "I Will Survive" was a Gloria Gaynor hit. |
| 10:49.11 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@dyn165185.wlan.jku.at) |
| 10:52.10 | SpeedEvil | Yes, but I had a special recording made. |
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| 11:06.27 | ScaredyCat | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv6lHwWwO3w |
| 11:09.30 | ScaredyCat | did packages/tasks/task-openmoko-qtopia-x11.bb get deleted then? |
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| 11:30.32 | MicheleRenda | Hello |
| 11:30.43 | MicheleRenda | it is the first time I enter in this channel |
| 11:31.02 | MicheleRenda | I want only to thanks all the person that are working in this project |
| 11:32.29 | *** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@cuw171.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
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| 11:36.47 | rtm | MicheleRenda: Are you planning on buying a Freerunner when they become available? |
| 11:37.07 | CIA-43 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4416 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (configure.ac libopkg/opkg.c libopkg/opkg.h): opkg: add more attributes to opkg_package_t |
| 11:37.43 | MicheleRenda | Yes, how say someone else, I received the approbal by my financial administrator :) |
| 11:38.14 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz (i=ynezz@ibawizard.net) |
| 11:38.53 | MicheleRenda | thomas: up^ |
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| 12:23.30 | [AD]Turbo | hi there |
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| 12:34.45 | kvk | where can i get the complete information about GSM AT commands? |
| 12:36.10 | *** join/#openmoko apol|work (n=pol@xwing4.upc.es) |
| 12:38.40 | stefan_schmidt | kvk: 3gpp.org specs |
| 12:43.04 | kvk | some of the commands are not giving output's? so, is there any procedure for execute the command's in priority order? |
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| 13:02.12 | data_jepp | http://cryptome.org/ti-calypso1.pdf & http://cryptome.org/ti-calypso2.pdf |
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| 13:09.15 | ScaredyCat | useless |
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| 13:15.59 | mbuf | opkg has the same functionality as ipkg? |
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| 13:20.02 | Kronk | as far as I'm aware yes ? |
| 13:20.27 | Kronk | if you google up opkg it has a good explination of why opkg has been selected over ipkg :) |
| 13:20.37 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=dcordes@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 13:21.01 | mbuf | Kronk, thanks |
| 13:21.46 | Kronk | np's |
| 13:22.02 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@visitorportal.test.ibbt.be) |
| 13:22.02 | Kronk | I though wikipedia had something on it but it only appears to have an entry for ipkg ? |
| 13:22.29 | mbuf | Kronk, just want to know how to uninstall a package with opkg |
| 13:22.31 | Kronk | One of the reasons was to take the i for ipaq out as far as I'm aware "legal stuff" |
| 13:22.45 | Kronk | thinks it's simular trying to get it going myself atm ;) |
| 13:22.46 | Kronk | lol |
| 13:23.30 | Kronk | http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Ipkg |
| 13:23.32 | Kronk | try that :) |
| 13:23.59 | mbuf | Kronk, -h lists the options |
| 13:24.02 | mbuf | Kronk, thanks |
| 13:24.02 | Kronk | oops |
| 13:24.10 | Kronk | soz that's a ipkg guide ! My bad ! |
| 13:24.13 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 13:24.15 | Kronk | Opps |
| 13:24.48 | *** join/#openmoko MicheleRenda (n=michele@217.202.195.214) |
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| 13:33.34 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe * r8628e7a540f3 10/ousaged/modules/generic.py: Add resource policy API (disabled, auto, enabled) |
| 13:35.59 | mbuf | opkg install openssh, says, it conflicts with dropbear; if i uninstall dropbear, i will not be able to ssh into the system; so how can i install openssh? |
| 13:36.35 | patoh | mbuf: openssh has a ssh daemon, you can use it |
| 13:36.44 | patoh | what is wrong with dropbear that makes you feel the need to replace it with openssh? |
| 13:37.46 | mbuf | patoh, when i issue remote commands through ssh, it segment faults; i had this issue earlier, so previous builds i used to install openssh |
| 13:38.31 | mbuf | *when using ipkg; |
| 13:39.06 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 13:39.27 | mbuf | patoh, or i hit this 255 return status: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Connecting_to_phone |
| 13:39.36 | patoh | filed a bug about it? |
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| 13:40.06 | mbuf | patoh, nope; at that time rwhitby suggested to use openssh, so i continued to use openssh |
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| 13:41.24 | patoh | ok, just remember, removing dropbear to install openssh, may render remote connections, broken |
| 13:41.32 | patoh | just make sure you start openssh |
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| 13:42.02 | mbuf | patoh, ok |
| 13:42.43 | mbuf | patoh, i am trying -force-depends |
| 13:43.18 | ScaredyCat | mbuf: use a script |
| 13:43.45 | mbuf | ScaredyCat, -force-depends has installed it; changed DROPBEAR_PORT to use 2222 |
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| 13:45.02 | mbuf | the phone doesn't have a reboot option? have to shutdown and start it manually; april 24th image |
| 13:45.33 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176098143.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:46.07 | ScaredyCat | ssh in and reboot :P |
| 13:46.40 | ScaredyCat | none of the images have a reboot option afaik |
| 13:46.47 | mbuf | ScaredyCat, ohh! |
| 13:47.03 | ScaredyCat | you just push the power button :) |
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| 13:50.46 | mbuf | in terminal, how can i get the "up" arrow? |
| 13:51.21 | mbuf | and the "|" symbol? |
| 13:53.46 | Tyrael | what about ipkg-link? opkg-link doesn't exist |
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| 13:57.21 | mbuf | how to get capital letters on the terminal on the device? |
| 13:58.39 | winux_ | hello,i followed this http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_and_Windows#USB_Ethernet_emulation page to connect my neo1973,but failed,i can not get response of ping |
| 14:00.21 | mbuf | never mind, just had to use "^ *" to get capital letters |
| 14:01.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1385 has been created by fr-om(AT)tourde.org |
| 14:01.03 | cdbot2 | * * ge librsvg_2.16.1.bb won't build on x86 platform |
| 14:01.04 | Kronk | u happy your ip forwarding is setup ok winux_ ? |
| 14:01.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1385 |
| 14:01.37 | Kronk | on your Windows ? XP is it ? |
| 14:01.41 | winux_ | yes |
| 14:01.44 | winux_ | kronk |
| 14:02.09 | Kronk | so you ok with Ip forwarding in XP that's all running fine you think ? |
| 14:02.37 | Kronk | ICS setup ? |
| 14:04.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1386 has been created by fr-om(AT)tourde.org |
| 14:04.03 | cdbot2 | * * ge u-boot-openmoko_1.3.1+git+svn.bb won't build |
| 14:04.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1386 |
| 14:04.05 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@216.27.62.2) |
| 14:05.38 | Kronk | breaths a sigh of relief post u-boot update ;) |
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| 14:35.33 | summatusmentis | so, FreeRunner MP is supposed to start tomorrow... |
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| 14:37.11 | ScaredyCat | well, wasn't the 9th a guess |
| 14:37.21 | winux_ | hi,how to disable the hibernate of neo1973 ? |
| 14:37.52 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: "The last Pre MP is done and mass production is slated to start on may 9." as of the 4th, from Steve |
| 14:37.53 | ScaredyCat | press the power button and select the 'do not lock' option from pwoer management |
| 14:38.05 | ScaredyCat | 'dim but don't lock ' or similar |
| 14:38.30 | ScaredyCat | summatusmentis: right, but it's not a concrete date... |
| 14:38.42 | ScaredyCat | that's when expected, unless issues arrise.. |
| 14:38.52 | ScaredyCat | starting MP on a Friday? |
| 14:38.55 | summatusmentis | doesn't slated to start mean that that's the plan? |
| 14:39.30 | SpeedEvil | simm: 9-16 |
| 14:40.02 | ScaredyCat | it's a schedule... |
| 14:40.19 | summatusmentis | alright, fair enough |
| 14:40.41 | ScaredyCat | I don;t want one that was built on a Friday ;) |
| 14:40.53 | woglinde | lol |
| 14:41.01 | woglinde | friday the 13th? |
| 14:41.08 | ScaredyCat | hehehe |
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| 14:41.25 | SpeedEvil | The factory is over an ancient indian graveyard. |
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| 14:48.10 | Kronk | does the sleep thing |
| 14:48.10 | Kronk | cya |
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| 14:54.52 | spydon | where can I find the mailing lists in a forum like thread? :P |
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| 14:57.18 | patoh | spydon: try google groups |
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| 15:05.08 | SpeedEvil | spyre: or subscribe, and get them in your faviourite threaded email reader. |
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| 15:14.03 | spydon | but there was a good link with them on the wiki before |
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| 15:17.38 | CIA-43 | openmoko: 03zecke * r40f674b0fa72 10/src/server/phone/smsstatusdbusexporter.cpp: [sms/dbus] Make the SMS ids strings as well. For loading a sms we have already used string identifiers |
| 15:17.38 | CIA-43 | openmoko: 03zecke * r341e1f0813d2 10/devices/ficgta01/configure: We are a product, do not built the launcher with the samples... |
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| 15:27.20 | fenfir | http://oe.linuxtogo.org/wiki/BuildOnOSX |
| 15:27.29 | fenfir | wrong place sroy |
| 15:42.59 | juri_ | hmm. am i going to have to buy a new jtag kit for the frerunner, or is the neo1973 debug board (v2) compatible? |
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| 15:49.19 | mwester | juri_: compatible, with some minor limitations |
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| 16:08.17 | juri_ | so, if i brick a frerunner, i can de-brick it with my 1973 board? |
| 16:08.42 | SpeedEvil | In principle - you can't brick it. |
| 16:08.53 | SpeedEvil | You can always recover with the onboard emergency flash. |
| 16:09.01 | SpeedEvil | Which you can't change without the debug board. |
| 16:09.07 | juri_ | i've already had to de-brick my 1973 once. :) |
| 16:09.10 | SpeedEvil | However, I don't know if that's implemented yet. |
| 16:09.45 | zash | There is emergency flash? Is it read-only? |
| 16:09.50 | SpeedEvil | yea |
| 16:09.54 | SpeedEvil | without the debug board. |
| 16:10.21 | SpeedEvil | You can only write it with the debug board. (well - or a resistor/jumper, but not via software) |
| 16:10.43 | zash | Ah, good. |
| 16:12.17 | mwester | So basically, the debug board's value to most is just to expose the serial console... |
| 16:13.44 | SpeedEvil | Severalfold. |
| 16:14.00 | zash | So you can't truly brick the freerunner without a debugboard? And then you could just debrick it. |
| 16:14.05 | SpeedEvil | I don't know if the emergency flash is actually in a working enough state. |
| 16:14.26 | SpeedEvil | You might want a deub board to get it into a state where it functions as intended. |
| 16:14.34 | SpeedEvil | You might want one for JTAG debugging. |
| 16:15.15 | SpeedEvil | You might want one for hacking on the emergency flash loader - for example to do rapid resume processing. |
| 16:16.18 | SpeedEvil | resume from CPU 'off' that is. |
| 16:16.58 | juri_ | does anyone whos alive know how to make my neo1973 ring? :) |
| 16:17.21 | SpeedEvil | juri_: sorry - I haven't looked at that. |
| 16:17.27 | juri_ | its hard to keep my phone in my pocket (so i'll notice the vibrate) and have it constantly on USB life support. |
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| 16:21.43 | faern | how long batterylife does the freerunner has? |
| 16:24.16 | SpeedEvil | Speaking hypothetically - it should be better than a week, and 3 hours or so of talk-time. Maybe 5h active doing stuff. However, I don't know if the software will be adequate at initial availability to do this. |
| 16:24.49 | unknown_lamer | woo threeh ours |
| 16:24.53 | unknown_lamer | much better than the 20 minutes I get now |
| 16:25.09 | faern | SpeedEvil: ok. but hardware wise it will hold for a week when the power saving is correctly implemented? |
| 16:25.16 | unknown_lamer | I had no idea my battery had degraded so much until someone else tried to call someone with my phone :-X |
| 16:25.33 | unknown_lamer | chatting over gprs doesn't keep the radio on much I guess |
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| 16:31.06 | SpeedEvil | faern: as I understand - and assuming that nothing is worse in freerunner than GTA01 - yes. |
| 16:31.18 | SpeedEvil | faern: I do not have a freerunner. |
| 16:32.37 | faern | ok. thank you. But with gps and faster cpu and everything shouldnt it have shorter battery life? or is the battery upgraded/improved powersaving? |
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| 16:32.59 | SpeedEvil | GTA01 has GPS too. |
| 16:33.07 | AzalynHD | faern: those other components will be turned off when unneeded i would imagine. |
| 16:33.18 | faern | aah. ok, didnt know that. good |
| 16:33.19 | SpeedEvil | With everything on, it's going to have maybe a wash battery-life. |
| 16:33.34 | SpeedEvil | But everything should rarely be on. |
| 16:34.57 | AzalynHD | hehe, you know what's funny, my first pc was 400mhz and 64mb ram. this phone is going to be more powerful than that pc. :| |
| 16:35.19 | unknown_lamer | faern: the freerunner has a larger battery |
| 16:35.29 | AzalynHD | i wonder if someone will port quake2 to it. :D |
| 16:35.36 | faern | is there any good gps map software bundled or compatible to install? |
| 16:35.41 | faern | unknown_lamer: nice |
| 16:35.46 | SpeedEvil | faern: no |
| 16:35.48 | unknown_lamer | damn 7M/s graphics bus limit makes quake2 unfeasible at a sane frame rate |
| 16:35.51 | SpeedEvil | faern: google tangogps |
| 16:35.57 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 16:36.09 | unknown_lamer | especially since the opengl ES stuff will probably never be supported |
| 16:36.34 | unknown_lamer | I'm really hoping lbreakout2 uses bitblitting for the tiles ... |
| 16:37.07 | unknown_lamer | 'tho by the time I get a freerunner I might actually remember enough geometry to make it do so if it doesn't (hacking on CLIM gives me super graphics powers or something) |
| 16:38.00 | SpeedEvil | In practice, QVGA mode should be just fine for action games IMO. |
| 16:38.08 | SpeedEvil | That's still 140DPI |
| 16:38.36 | SpeedEvil | And that gives you 20+fps probably |
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| 16:39.55 | unknown_lamer | how does the display look in qvga mode? |
| 16:40.10 | SpeedEvil | faern: it will _not_ be - if released at the end of this month - a polished phone exploiting the hardware properly. |
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| 16:40.25 | SpeedEvil | unknown_lamer: like it does at VGA, just half hte resolution. |
| 16:40.42 | unknown_lamer | Ah so it isn't blocky or distorted? |
| 16:40.49 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 16:41.07 | unknown_lamer | I guess at that display density using four hardware pixels per software pixel isn't noticable yay |
| 16:42.28 | juri_ | have there been any changes in SVN within the last three days that are "worth" updating to? |
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| 17:28.18 | faern | Why is the freerunner only equiped with usb 1.1? cant really be too expensive with 2.0. Is it a space issue? |
| 17:28.32 | SpeedEvil | it's not. |
| 17:28.46 | SpeedEvil | It's a 'CPUs with USB2 are really expensive' issue. |
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| 17:29.32 | faern | ok :/ too bad |
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| 17:32.46 | XorA|gone | according to the flier the s3c2442 has USB Deice :-) |
| 17:32.53 | XorA|gone | spelling from sheet :-) |
| 17:33.05 | Qwell | USB Deicer.. planes could use those. |
| 17:33.11 | XorA|gone | javascript:fileAction('/global/system/business/semiconductor/product/2007/7/7/046670sc32442_msp.pdf') |
| 17:33.22 | XorA|gone | ~lart javascript |
| 17:33.22 | apt | executes killall -HUP javascript |
| 17:33.45 | zash | fileAction? |
| 17:33.46 | zash | wtf |
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| 17:48.04 | anrp | samsung completely messed up their site |
| 17:48.10 | anrp | it used to be fine with html |
| 17:48.16 | anrp | now its this absolute mess of active content |
| 17:48.57 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 17:50.35 | *** part/#openmoko jstarcher (n=jstarche@cpe-76-188-228-85.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 17:51.13 | SpeedEvil | anrp: and they won't send any interesting datasheets without vetting you. |
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| 17:51.28 | SpeedEvil | They seem to at least want a electronics company website/email. |
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| 17:54.41 | SpeedEvil | One guy to hold the laser-level, and project horizontal lines, the other to walk along the line. |
| 17:54.43 | SpeedEvil | iios |
| 17:54.48 | SpeedEvil | oops |
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| 18:40.05 | sigshot | does anyone here use his FIC GTA01 as a regular smartphone? |
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| 18:40.24 | woglinde | hm |
| 18:40.29 | woglinde | it wasnt nice |
| 18:40.34 | woglinde | without real power mangement |
| 18:40.40 | sigshot | yeah.... |
| 18:40.51 | sigshot | i bought it over internet before a week |
| 18:40.56 | woglinde | thats why I now uses greenphone |
| 18:40.57 | sigshot | and i am a bit frustrated |
| 18:41.05 | woglinde | uh |
| 18:41.22 | woglinde | hm you should have wait for the freerunner |
| 18:41.41 | sigshot | yes... and freerunner will have complete software? |
| 18:41.48 | sigshot | or it will be the same as Neo? |
| 18:43.30 | woglinde | its work in progress |
| 18:43.38 | woglinde | but hardware is better |
| 18:43.41 | woglinde | you have wifi |
| 18:44.21 | sigshot | yes, wifi rulez |
| 18:45.59 | mwester | The Neo would be much better with better software; in many ways theres not much difference between the two devices (from the users POV) |
| 18:46.32 | mwester | Or, to put it conversely, the Freerunner will not be much better than the Neo, from the users POV, until the software is vastly improved! |
| 18:46.34 | kdean06 | "regular smartphone" is really a subjective concept too. |
| 18:46.45 | kdean06 | Is there a specific area you're interested in? |
| 18:51.24 | mickeyl | mwester: yep |
| 18:53.50 | mmontour | mwester: I did some more testing with your suspend/resume kernel. It mostly works, but one time there was no ringer sound (only vibration) on an incoming call. Audio on the call itself worked OK. |
| 18:54.13 | mmontour | However, my battery still died after less than 24 hours even though it spent almost all of that time suspended. |
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| 19:05.21 | mwester | mmontour: I've observed the battery problem as well; I suspect we need to do something inside gsmd to make the GSM enter a power-saving state. |
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| 19:06.10 | mwester | mmontour: There seems to be some issues with audio remaining (also, I seem to have some display issues very infrequently when resuming). So work shall continue, I guess :) |
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| 19:29.45 | mmontour | The linux-openmoko do_fetch() is failing again - fatal: failed to unpack tree object 966a29020932751ba6a1a137b0e1e25ac0708be7. Is the Openmoko server running out of disk space again? |
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| 19:33.27 | sigshot | well, I was wondering why the guy with the Ubuntu laptop was so happy when he sold Neo to me ... :))) |
| 19:37.34 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r7b91951addfd 10/mickeyterm/mickeyterm: |
| 19:37.34 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: mickeyterm: sync. with upstream. if in char-by-char-mode, properly restore terminal on quit. |
| 19:37.34 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: (don't use that, readline mode with command line completion is sooooooo much cooler... :) |
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| 20:10.17 | sigshot | which rootfs and kernel would you recommend me to flash in? |
| 20:12.27 | abraxa_ | sigshot: Latest kernel and latest Openmoko rootfs from buildhost.automated.it |
| 20:14.03 | sigshot | abraxa_: thanks |
| 20:14.12 | kdean06 | abraxa_, Why do you recomment ScaredyCat's images over others, just asking. :) |
| 20:14.58 | abraxa_ | kdean06: Do you want to hear the X-rated or PG13 version? |
| 20:15.53 | kdean06 | X-rated indicates the presence of hardcore sex. I'm not sure I wanna know if that's the case... |
| 20:16.04 | sigshot | X-rated... |
| 20:16.07 | kdean06 | Though, I'd like the honest reasons, even if it's "rude". |
| 20:16.24 | abraxa_ | Honestly I just recommend them because I know he puts effort into making them work |
| 20:16.40 | abraxa_ | (and it's the URL that sticks to my brain the easiest) |
| 20:16.43 | kdean06 | Rated G by the MPAA |
| 20:16.56 | sigshot | yeah but Neo has great audio playback quality |
| 20:17.02 | sigshot | great speakers |
| 20:17.40 | kdean06 | sigshot, Audio playback sounds much better IMO on Qtopia. And the fact that plugging in the headphones doesn't silence those speakers is a CRITICAL issue IMO. |
| 20:17.49 | mwester | would suggest that one choose the most recent kernel from http://moko.mwester.net/ and the rootfs image from ScaredyCat. |
| 20:17.54 | kdean06 | mwester, By the way... Is that hardware or software? |
| 20:18.00 | Qwell | what sound device does the neo have? |
| 20:18.05 | sigshot | yeah, I've just deleted qtopia :))) |
| 20:18.13 | kdean06 | The headset plugging issues, i mean. |
| 20:18.15 | abraxa_ | mwester: Oh, I wasn't aware you had updated kernels. Do they include any patches? |
| 20:18.23 | mwester | The headset? software I think.. |
| 20:18.23 | pyknit1 | mwester: you get an openmoko |
| 20:18.36 | *** join/#openmoko Sonicadvance (n=Sonic@24-117-7-28.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 20:18.40 | Qwell | I know my laptop had that same issue with 2.6.23ish |
| 20:18.48 | kdean06 | It does the same thing on Qtopia and Openmoko, so I was afeared it was hardware. |
| 20:18.51 | mwester | abraxa_: Yes, experimental patches that make suspend/resume much closer to working (although not quite working yet) |
| 20:19.20 | abraxa_ | mwester: Good job :) |
| 20:19.30 | mwester | kdean06: Perhaps I'm wrong, then -- roh has schematics, perhaps he's about? |
| 20:19.50 | *** part/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
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| 20:20.45 | mwester | roh must be asleep, but when he returns I think he knows how the jack is wired. |
| 20:23.00 | *** join/#openmoko Sonicadvance (n=Sonic@24-117-7-28.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 20:24.54 | sigshot | well, i am flashink mwester's kernel |
| 20:25.03 | sigshot | and sacredy cat's rootfs |
| 20:26.12 | sigshot | oh *scaredy |
| 20:28.56 | CIA-43 | openmoko: 03andrew * r4417 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/usb-linux-gadget.c: Teach qemu the post 2.6.22 #include paths for usb gadgetfs (Thilo Fromm). |
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| 20:45.02 | ScaredyCat | points at the 2 new scripts |
| 20:45.14 | ScaredyCat | for all those that don;t want to stare up my nose.... |
| 20:45.28 | ScaredyCat | there's a wallpaper changer |
| 20:45.49 | ScaredyCat | and some alternate wallpapers |
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| 20:47.59 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: Thanks, sexy |
| 20:48.01 | abraxa_ | ;) |
| 20:48.51 | ScaredyCat | I'm glad of that comma abraxa_ ;) |
| 20:49.07 | abraxa_ | lol |
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| 20:51.11 | mwester | :D excellent |
| 20:51.28 | mwester | (no offense to your nose, of course) |
| 20:56.25 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 21:01.47 | paulproteus | mickey|sofa, Hey, if I have a Neo and lost my batteries, what's the best thing to do? |
| 21:02.14 | paulproteus | I read that BL-5C Nokia batteries don't charge in the Neo, which sucks. |
| 21:04.31 | *** join/#openmoko ScarEye (n=scareye@12.27.87.66) |
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| 21:09.39 | SpeedEvil | paulproteus: one possibility would be an external blc-4 charger |
| 21:09.43 | SpeedEvil | bl5c |
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| 23:05.08 | CIA-43 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r3713386a6fa9 10/mickeyterm/mickeyterm: mickeyterm: add logging |
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| 23:18.29 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, Yeah, but that means when the battery dies I have to power-down the Neo. )-: |
| 23:33.28 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@80-219-241-205.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
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| 23:36.00 | sigpriv2 | well, the latest ScaredyCats rootfs wasnt even able to receive calls ... :-((( |
| 23:37.23 | bastian | can anybody help me making qemu? |
| 23:37.33 | bastian | I get an error when making it |
| 23:38.38 | bastian | #make -C arm-softmmu all |
| 23:38.42 | bastian | make[1]: Entering directory `/home/bastian/qemu-neo1973/arm-softmmu' |
| 23:38.54 | bastian | gcc -Wall -O2 -g -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-reorder-blocks -fno-gcse -fno-tree-ch -fno-optimize-sibling-calls |
| 23:38.58 | bastian | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:39.02 | bastian | tack-boundary=2 -fomit-frame-pointer -I. -I.. -I/home/bastian/qemu-neo1973/target-arm -I/home/bastian/qemu-neo |
| 23:39.06 | bastian | 973 -MMD -MP -DNEED_CPU_H -D_GNU_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -I/home/bastian/qemu-neo1973/ |
| 23:39.10 | bastian | pu -DHAS_AUDIO -I/home/bastian/qemu-neo1973/gnokiigsm -I/home/bastian/qemu-neo1973/slirp -c -o op.o /home/bastia |
| 23:39.14 | bastian | /qemu-neo1973/target-arm/op.c |
| 23:39.18 | bastian | /home/bastian/qemu-neo1973/target-arm/op_iwmmxt.c: In function âop_iwmmxt_movq_wRn_M0â: |
| 23:39.22 | bastian | /home/bastian/qemu-neo1973/target-arm/op_iwmmxt.c:176: error: unable to find a register to spill in class âGENER |
| 23:39.26 | bastian | L_REGSâ |
| 23:39.30 | bastian | /home/bastian/qemu-neo1973/target-arm/op_iwmmxt.c:176: error: this is the insn: |
| 23:39.34 | bastian | (insn:HI 10 21 11 2 /home/bastian/qemu-neo1973/target-arm/op_iwmmxt.c:175 (set (mem/s/j:DI (plus:SI (plus:SI (mu |
| 23:39.38 | bastian | t:SI (reg/f:SI 58 [ __op_param1.1778 ]) |
| 23:39.42 | bastian | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:39.46 | bastian | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:39.58 | bastian | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:40.02 | bastian | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:40.06 | bastian | (nil))) |
| 23:40.10 | bastian | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:40.14 | bastian | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:40.18 | bastian | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:40.22 | bastian | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:40.22 | bastian | /home/bastian/qemu-neo1973/target-arm/op_iwmmxt.c:176: confused by earlier errors, bailing out |
| 23:40.22 | bastian | make[1]: *** [op.o] Fehler 1 |
| 23:40.22 | bastian | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/bastian/qemu-neo1973/arm-softmmu' |
| 23:40.22 | bastian | make: *** [subdir-arm-softmmu] Fehler 2 |
| 23:40.23 | bastian | sorry for spamming the channel, but can anybode help me with that? |
| 23:47.06 | balrog-kun | bastian: what distro is that? |
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| 23:51.14 | bastian | openSuSE 10.3 |
| 23:51.50 | bastian | i'm just trying to install gcc 3.3 |
| 23:52.21 | bastian | any idea? |
| 23:53.13 | balrog-kun | bastian: not sure, seems like you have more flags set than i |
| 23:53.25 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree (n=df@58.37.112.79) |
| 23:53.31 | balrog-kun | did you change CFLAGS? |
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| 23:53.41 | bastian | no |
| 23:53.51 | balrog-kun | maybe suse adds some by default |
| 23:53.58 | bastian | where should i do? |
| 23:54.08 | balrog-kun | i have these -Wall -O2 -g -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-reorder-blocks -fno-gcse -fno-optimize-sibling-calls -fno-crossjumping -fno-align-labels -fno-align-jumps -fno-align-functions |
| 23:54.17 | balrog-kun | but i used gcc3.4 |
| 23:54.34 | bastian | i have 4.2 i think |
| 23:54.42 | bastian | now trying to install 3.3 |
| 23:54.59 | balrog-kun | ah, but you're probably on a 32-bit host |
| 23:55.05 | balrog-kun | i'd try 3.4 |
| 23:55.54 | bastian | k, then i have to search again :) |
| 23:56.53 | bastian | hmm, there is no 3.4 at rpmseek.com |
| 23:57.40 | bastian | i try a feodora rpm |
| 23:58.12 | balrog-kun | 3.3.6 works for me but on a 64-bit OS |
| 23:59.04 | bastian | this is 32 bit (Core2Duo is 32 bit i think) |
| 23:59.14 | bastian | so i installed 32 |