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| 00:05.49 | bmk789_ | anyone use navit on a neo yet? |
| 00:06.34 | SpeedEvil | I've used tangogps |
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| 00:14.22 | mwester | is still waiting for Openmoko to comment on http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1376 (sigh) |
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| 00:21.50 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
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| 01:03.55 | SpeedEvil | mwester-trip: earlier I mentioned that GPRS worked to transmit a large amount of data without problems. I realise now that tcp/ip and ppp layers will both detect overrun errors, so that isn't true. |
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| 01:16.55 | rtm | n |
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| 03:41.34 | d3vice | hi all |
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| 06:03.24 | rtm | Here's an odd, but nice thing I found: There is more traffic to openmoko.org than to www.openhandsetalliance.com, the main Android site. |
| 06:08.45 | Sonicadvance | lol |
| 06:11.36 | linuxxr | yay |
| 06:15.35 | roh | rtm traffic? |
| 06:16.33 | rtm | roh: Yes, as reported by www.alexa.com. |
| 06:17.41 | rtm | That site allows you to compare the number of visitors, page views etc. that web sites have, as a function of time. |
| 06:18.37 | roh | well.. i still would want to know where they take this data. |
| 06:18.50 | roh | ive not seen them having an account there ;) |
| 06:19.26 | roh | so its total guesswork what they are selling people there. snakeoil |
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| 06:22.10 | roh | but brenda put some stats into a mail recently |
| 06:22.37 | roh | about 20-25000 hits a week on the wiki alone |
| 06:23.00 | roh | "Weekly Wiki Page Views" on community@ |
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| 06:26.02 | rtm | roh: I have no idea where that site gets its data either, but some of the trends they show at least make sense. They show traffic to Treo sites slowly going down, Blackberry sites baslically constant, etc. |
| 06:29.13 | rtm | I had not seen Brenda's stats, though. Those are encouraging numbers. |
| 06:32.59 | roh | need to reboot that machine now.. mompls |
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| 06:41.10 | roh | ha.. finally... |
| 06:41.16 | roh | only one sarge left |
| 06:43.28 | roh | but not today |
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| 07:09.17 | mmontour | Interesting - u-boot commit de109d909707e2dfe806be5efc3cdb103b47c8ad (first change after 1.3.3-rc2) bricks my gta01bv4. Nothing written to the serial console on power-up. |
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| 07:44.14 | patoh | rtm: alexa gets it stats from people with the alexa toolbars _usually_ |
| 07:44.36 | patoh | rtm: the toolbar actualy used to be classed as spyware |
| 07:44.57 | rtm | patoh: Oh, I had no idea what their counting mechanism was. |
| 07:45.24 | patoh | "The traffic data are based on the set of toolbars that use Alexa data, which may not be a representative sample of the global Internet population. To the extent that our sample of users differs from the set of all Internet users, our traffic estimates may over- or under-estimate the actual traffic to any particular site." |
| 07:45.30 | patoh | http://www.alexa.com/site/help/traffic_learn_more |
| 07:45.40 | patoh | look at bottom of page to sift through their crap |
| 07:46.24 | patoh | its ok with the top 10 website on the internet usually, but that is about all its good for |
| 07:46.56 | patoh | as roh said before, snakeoil |
| 07:47.09 | roh | *sigh* .. welll the wiki stats are done with google stuff, so they work only with javascript on ;) |
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| 07:47.37 | roh | kinda snakeoil also when a big part of your community propably is surfing with noscript and adblock |
| 07:47.59 | roh | but tendencies are tendencies.. thats propably right |
| 07:51.28 | patoh | I find web server logs are the only valid source of stats |
| 07:51.41 | patoh | sure you don't get funky things like screen res, but they can be an addon |
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| 07:52.52 | rtm | Can anyone tell me why the hardware discussion list contains numerous postings about the GTA04, but none (that I've seen) about the GTA03? Won't there be a GTA03? |
| 07:53.31 | patoh | GTA01 is the current dev phone isn't it? |
| 07:54.01 | rtm | As I understand it, GTA01 is the neo1973, GTA02 is the Freerunner. |
| 07:54.52 | rtm | There is discussion about what chips to use in the GTA04, but not the GTA03... |
| 07:55.12 | emdete | gta03 got lost.. |
| 07:57.14 | roh | well.. names are just strings. whats in it counts |
| 07:57.38 | roh | who knows what marketing does think is a good name when its released? |
| 07:58.02 | rtm | roh: I agree - I just wondered if there was an '03 that whose hardware was already frozen. |
| 07:58.08 | roh | gta0x are engineer designations. which will stay again |
| 07:58.11 | roh | rtm nope |
| 07:58.50 | roh | rtm atleast i dont know anything about it and i'm root ;) |
| 07:59.07 | rtm | roh: That's good enough for me. |
| 07:59.30 | roh | well.. i got my work done for today.. got a few wigglylines and are happy.. n8 guys |
| 07:59.52 | rtm | roh: Thanks for your responses to my queries. |
| 07:59.53 | patoh | night |
| 08:00.03 | patoh | I am going out for an early dinner |
| 08:00.11 | roh | btw.. munin is cool.. if it just weren't perl.. |
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| 09:14.13 | mbuf | can the gta01v3 debug board be used with the Neo FreeRunner? |
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| 09:22.41 | SpeedEvil | mb |
| 09:22.50 | SpeedEvil | mbuf: use |
| 09:22.58 | mbuf | SpeedEvil, ok |
| 09:23.00 | SpeedEvil | s/use/yes/ |
| 09:23.18 | mbuf | SpeedEvil, time for coffee? |
| 09:23.33 | SpeedEvil | Time for picking up the laptop properly. |
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| 09:31.06 | Daemonax | Will the phone be released by this Christmas? |
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| 09:37.08 | mbuf | Daemonax, it is already available |
| 09:37.50 | Daemonax | Oh, why does the topic say it'll be released sometime? |
| 09:37.58 | mbuf | Daemonax, you can order now, trisoft.de |
| 09:38.45 | Daemonax | I'm in China, so I was hoping I might be able to source it from a closer place, aren't they produced in Taiwan? |
| 09:40.14 | mbuf | Daemonax, both, I would assume |
| 09:42.37 | Daemonax | Ah... Hmm, wonder if I can find someone to get me one here, can't speak the language.... Hmm |
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| 09:43.09 | mbuf | Daemonax, why don't you ask in openmoko-community list? |
| 09:43.22 | Daemonax | Will do later. |
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| 12:08.12 | mickeyl | anyone really familiar with the Calypso? |
| 12:08.21 | mickeyl | or similar modems and their behaviour? |
| 12:08.32 | mickeyl | we have an interesting problem w/ sleep mode here |
| 12:09.56 | raster | nfi |
| 12:10.03 | raster | all at commandset moof to me |
| 12:10.22 | raster | last i looked at at commands was in he bad old days in 1996/1997. |
| 12:10.27 | raster | when i still had a modem... |
| 12:11.06 | mickeyl | well |
| 12:11.14 | mickeyl | AT is moof, but at least a known entity |
| 12:11.26 | mickeyl | whereas sleep modes are really stranges |
| 12:11.48 | raster | dont know anything about them |
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| 12:16.05 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: I've dealt with sleeping serial things - I don't know what you might be having in hte way of problems. |
| 12:16.34 | mickeyl | ok, perhaps anyone can help here: it's like that: |
| 12:16.47 | mickeyl | moko3 firmware and later versions know a deep sleep mode |
| 12:16.58 | mickeyl | in this mode, the modem falls after (roughly) 7 seconds after the last command |
| 12:17.13 | mickeyl | subsequent chars will be ignored until you send \r\n to wake it up again |
| 12:17.33 | mickeyl | gsmd had this workaround in that it always sends \r\n before a command |
| 12:17.45 | mickeyl | so that it always will be woken up |
| 12:17.46 | emdete | which can lead to other problems |
| 12:17.56 | mickeyl | sure, no doubt about that |
| 12:17.58 | mickeyl | anyways |
| 12:18.04 | mickeyl | now i can understand this behaviour on AT mode |
| 12:18.05 | emdete | if the modem does not sleep it reponse with an okay |
| 12:18.28 | mickeyl | what puzzles me is that I know see this behaviour on every(!) channel even in MUXer mode, although this mode has its own power management commands |
| 12:18.39 | mickeyl | which is a real pain in the ass |
| 12:19.25 | emdete | what me even puzzles more is that i don't see that behavior at all |
| 12:19.29 | SpeedEvil | So you mean you need to send \r\n to wake it up - then \r\n on the virtual lines to virtually wake thouse? |
| 12:19.41 | SpeedEvil | emdete: do you have the same fw as mickeyl ? |
| 12:19.44 | emdete | it makes no sense at all to sleep on ine channel |
| 12:20.03 | emdete | SpeedEvil: other way around :D mickeyl has one neo with the same fw as i have |
| 12:20.11 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 12:20.12 | mickeyl | well |
| 12:20.16 | mickeyl | i have moko9b1 now |
| 12:20.25 | mickeyl | but it was the same on moko4 and moko7 |
| 12:20.37 | SpeedEvil | It would make some sense if there were multiple physical subunits. |
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| 12:21.05 | SpeedEvil | But as I understand it, there is solely the RF-baseband CPU, and the 'talk to teh world' CPU |
| 12:21.12 | mickeyl | yep |
| 12:21.25 | SpeedEvil | And it's only the second that gets shut down, with the first queing events to it. |
| 12:22.05 | SpeedEvil | I vote someone writes an open-source GSM stack for the calypso. |
| 12:22.11 | SpeedEvil | looks around for someone. |
| 12:22.14 | mickeyl | heh |
| 12:22.16 | mickeyl | yes |
| 12:22.24 | mickeyl | puts us back a couple of years |
| 12:22.27 | mickeyl | but well |
| 12:22.30 | mickeyl | we waited so long... |
| 12:22.36 | SpeedEvil | Probably not a good plan. |
| 12:22.58 | mickeyl | well, if we want OM to have at least a tiny bit of success, then we better finish our framework soon |
| 12:23.02 | mickeyl | *shrug* |
| 12:23.07 | mickeyl | anyways, i guess i need to ask the .tw guys |
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| 12:25.50 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - seems a very firmware specific thing. You've eliminated bugs in your own code I suppose? |
| 12:26.19 | mickeyl | yes |
| 12:26.25 | mickeyl | except the MUXer, there's no own code involved |
| 12:26.28 | SpeedEvil | Might be an idea to roll mwesters bug into this. |
| 12:26.29 | mickeyl | i'm talking raw AT |
| 12:26.37 | mickeyl | and can demostrate that using a terminal |
| 12:27.08 | SpeedEvil | What's the problem with having to send \r\n on each virtual cnanel? |
| 12:27.18 | SpeedEvil | Is it simply that it's not to spec? |
| 12:28.27 | mickeyl | the problem is it depends on the sleeping state whether you will receive an OK or not |
| 12:28.43 | mickeyl | if you do \r\n and the modem is alive, it sends OK |
| 12:28.57 | mickeyl | if you do \r\n and the modem is sleeping, it swallows the response, but wakes up |
| 12:29.06 | mickeyl | which is pretty confusing for the state machine / parser |
| 12:29.27 | mickeyl | and since you have no chance to tell whether the channel is alive or not, you can't query that |
| 12:29.45 | mickeyl | besides, the major nuisance being that it does not make sense at all |
| 12:30.01 | mickeyl | control channel has its own PSC |
| 12:31.15 | SpeedEvil | The only (wacky) reason I can think of is that someone specified it sloppily, and that's how it's been implemented. |
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| 12:31.40 | SpeedEvil | Good luck. |
| 12:32.14 | mickeyl | phew |
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| 13:02.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1380 has been created by mickey(AT)openmoko.org |
| 13:02.02 | cdbot2 | * * GSM modem sleeps on virtual channels in MUX |
| 13:02.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1380 |
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| 18:30.24 | Bish | hu |
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| 18:53.12 | berkus | hi, tried getting stuff out of gsdm today, the wiki says that it shall receive an update after a while, does it receive it from internet or somewhere else? |
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| 18:57.29 | mwester | berkus: ? |
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| 19:58.11 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: ping |
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| 20:04.08 | broedje | is there a key combo for screen calibration? lets say... angstrom? |
| 20:04.21 | SpeedEvil | xtscal? |
| 20:05.33 | abraxa_ | ts_calibrate works, too |
| 20:05.38 | broedje | yea why not. one littel question, where can i down load OMhers images? or dont they exist as such? really, you merely find ot |
| 20:05.40 | broedje | hers |
| 20:05.50 | broedje | OM |
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| 20:06.15 | abraxa_ | broedje: What "other" OM images? |
| 20:06.30 | abraxa_ | (unless I misunderstand the question...) |
| 20:07.23 | broedje | well, Angstrom and GPE have some OM packages in the ipkg repo. but don't you OM's have one too? |
| 20:08.33 | abraxa_ | Erm... huh? |
| 20:08.45 | broedje | i'm not kidding, i am interested in this since lets say one Month, and i at least didnt find it by accident |
| 20:09.03 | abraxa_ | Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to do |
| 20:09.46 | broedje | home? bugzilla? planet? Projects? lists? No "download"? |
| 20:10.02 | broedje | i want to flash the latest image, or so |
| 20:10.06 | broedje | such |
| 20:10.51 | abraxa_ | ah |
| 20:11.08 | broedje | but i see now there is "applications" qtopiaonx11 |
| 20:11.21 | abraxa_ | You can use http://buildhost.openmoko.org or http://buildhost.automated.it for example |
| 20:11.34 | broedje | isnt qtopia ... not open? |
| 20:11.46 | abraxa_ | It is now |
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| 20:12.34 | broedje | and what has it to do with OM, i thought QT is ... green, and OM e.G Dialer looks somehow red |
| 20:12.50 | broedje | :-P i feel bit dumb |
| 20:13.08 | broedje | well thanx anyhow |
| 20:13.32 | abraxa_ | Well, Openmoko and Qtopia don't have too much in common |
| 20:13.43 | broedje | i need a crosscompiler i think.... |
| 20:13.54 | abraxa_ | broedje: Do you want to write software for OM? |
| 20:14.09 | broedje | yea that is what i think... like angstrom and also gpe... different |
| 20:14.20 | broedje | porting at first |
| 20:14.28 | abraxa_ | Openmoko is actually based on Angstrom |
| 20:14.40 | broedje | then i hope to write stuff |
| 20:14.56 | abraxa_ | okay |
| 20:14.59 | broedje | but there will be a noticeable interval between hahaha |
| 20:15.17 | abraxa_ | When you start writing stuff, remember to use the SDK (aka toolchain) |
| 20:15.38 | broedje | IDE? |
| 20:16.00 | broedje | well... sorry.... i |
| 20:16.47 | broedje | er ... take a Strongarm PXE &%$/&% and find stuff on .... Openezx? totally wrong eh? |
| 20:17.39 | broedje | what was a SDK ... is not necessarily graphical right? |
| 20:18.35 | broedje | i'll look it up, i remember it |
| 20:20.33 | broedje | i didnt get you , surely i will not use Eclipse to compile stuff, or chase it through the SNOW toolchain of sgendacomputing. i hope you have something more appropriate in the drawers for guys like me |
| 20:21.37 | broedje | i will use "the" SDK :D |
| 20:21.38 | abraxa_ | I meant SDK as in "Software Development Kit" - in the context of Openmoko a complete cross-compile environment that lets you get to work right away |
| 20:22.13 | abraxa_ | Eclipse has nothing to do with it, unless you *want* to use Eclipse |
| 20:22.16 | broedje | the OM context SDK i love you |
| 20:22.44 | broedje | hihihihihihi |
| 20:23.28 | broedje | hit me |
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| 22:04.11 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey * r6297a5e1176a 10/ophoned/ (modem.py objects.py ophoned): python-ophoned: first call working in asynchronous way |
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| 22:17.18 | fophillips | Could gsmd be easily ported to for use on a normal PC? |
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