| 00:00.59 | mohamed | hi all, does any one know when Neo FreeRunner will be released ? |
| 00:01.58 | CVirus | mohamed: /topic |
| 00:02.01 | prpplague | points mohamed to the channel topic |
| 00:03.24 | mohamed | CVirus: hello CVirus, it's nice to see you again :) |
| 00:03.45 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-255-143.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 00:04.22 | mohamed | CVirus: but it says at some time :) when should be this some time ? |
| 00:05.02 | CVirus | at sometime :-) |
| 00:05.09 | CVirus | who knows |
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| 00:07.20 | dcordes_ | putting it that way is better than playing with the geeks' feelings |
| 00:07.33 | *** part/#openmoko p3t3r__ (n=p3t3r__@wlan.net-you.de) |
| 00:08.59 | SpeedEvil | changes it to 4:32 PM. |
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| 00:40.42 | cesarb | pulls from Linus' 2.6 git tree and sees a filename "sound/soc/s3c24xx/neo1973_wm8753.c" scroll by |
| 00:42.34 | CVirus | intersting |
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| 02:23.30 | mwester | ping svn.openmoko.org: From et.1.13.rs3k8.rz5.hetzner.de (213.239.244.167) icmp_seq=3 Destination Host Unreachable |
| 02:23.47 | mwester | :( |
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| 02:27.58 | retracile | mwester: 100% packet loss from here too; same for www.openmoko.com. |
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| 03:15.23 | xaid | maybe the main site is being updated to reflect the FreeRunner's close arrival? :) |
| 03:18.01 | mwester | hope: the last thing to die |
| 03:18.39 | mwester | xaid: cynics are happier people; our hopes don't get dashed when schedules slip ;) :D |
| 03:21.41 | xaid | :D |
| 03:22.08 | xaid | by the way, I'm taking a look at the Wiki and it seems a lot of things still say Openmoko instead of OpenMoko, should I change them when possible? |
| 03:22.46 | mwester | I have no idea which way is correct, actually. I suppose it makes a difference. |
| 03:23.08 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 03:23.13 | madwoota | how about the topic: "Welcome to the Openmoko support and discussion channel!" |
| 03:23.23 | xaid | I thought someone mentioned on the mailing list that the correct name is OpenMoko... |
| 03:23.33 | doc|home | madwoota: erm, that's in the topic |
| 03:23.47 | madwoota | with a little m |
| 03:24.13 | kdean06 | mwester, Openmoko is correct. |
| 03:24.23 | kdean06 | I did a MySQL dump to correct it. :( |
| 03:24.24 | *** join/#openmoko crib (n=chris@port-195-158-167-8.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 03:24.28 | kdean06 | I'm such a fucking pawn. |
| 03:24.33 | xaid | lol |
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| 03:29.52 | *** join/#openmoko sdfa333 (n=Administ@124-168-161-27.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 03:29.58 | sdfa333 | the site is down |
| 03:30.13 | kdean06 | sdfa333, It's known. |
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| 03:30.25 | sdfa333 | does this mean its coming back up with the freerunner for sale ? |
| 03:30.30 | sdfa333 | ;) |
| 03:31.02 | kdean06 | It probably means someon in Germany accidentally hit : instead of ; in a config file. :) |
| 03:31.06 | kdean06 | .org is still up. |
| 03:31.35 | sdfa333 | i am aware of that ;) |
| 03:31.56 | sdfa333 | oh when it comes out will i be able to get it shipped to australia -- any one know of the plans for this |
| 03:32.06 | sdfa333 | so far i have only seen things for the eu |
| 03:32.22 | LetoT2 | i am told a few phones will soon make it to toronto |
| 03:32.45 | LetoT2 | soon as in "weeks or a month" i think |
| 03:33.00 | LetoT2 | not sure how trustworthy the info is though |
| 03:33.01 | sdfa333 | when can i put an order in --- i think some one said you might be able to get one nowish |
| 03:33.40 | kdean06 | sdfa333, Check the wiki... There's a discount for ordering 10 or more units so "local groups" are peoping up everywhere except where I live. :) |
| 03:33.42 | sdfa333 | i just want to part with my money so i know that it has gone through |
| 03:34.06 | sdfa333 | kdean06: ok is it ok if i start a page dedicated to sydney australia shipping |
| 03:34.39 | doc|home | LetoT2: I'm in vancouver, trying to get together 10 people, have 7 so far |
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| 03:34.47 | doc|home | contacting an 8th from the lisyt |
| 03:35.28 | kdean06 | dbmoodb, It's a wiki, why are you asking me? lol |
| 03:35.55 | dbmoodb | because it might be considered rude |
| 03:36.04 | tomjoad | i can still get to the openmoko.com site. is that what you guys were talking about being down? |
| 03:36.24 | dotmef | sdfa333, if you start a page, I'll be interested as I'm in Syd |
| 03:36.36 | kdean06 | dbmoodb, I was suggesting a group may already exist in your area. If not, certainly, start one. :) |
| 03:36.41 | dbmoodb | dotmef what is your ,... i will pm you |
| 03:37.01 | doc|home | grrr, registration and confirmation email for editing wiki |
| 03:37.03 | doc|home | stabs |
| 03:37.19 | *** join/#openmoko dbmoodb (n=Administ@124-168-161-27.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 03:38.06 | dbmoodb | ok so where are the group pages held atm kdean06 |
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| 03:38.47 | kdean06 | dbmoodb, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales |
| 03:38.59 | dbmoodb | oh |
| 03:39.04 | dbmoodb | mad |
| 03:40.21 | dbmoodb | perhaps that should be linked to on the main page |
| 03:49.48 | dbmoodb | ah how long is the warranty going to be on the phone btw |
| 03:52.13 | dotmef | dbmoodb, added self to Syd list |
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| 03:53.23 | dbmoodb | ok |
| 03:53.26 | dbmoodb | got an email there ? |
| 03:53.59 | dbmoodb | dotmef for security we will order it using one of our credit cards once everyone has been established to have the funds |
| 03:54.20 | dbmoodb | if possible we might set up a bank account in the name of openmoko buying company pty |
| 03:54.21 | dbmoodb | rofl |
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| 04:03.21 | ewon | wtf |
| 04:04.12 | dbmoodb | ewon: ? |
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| 04:45.46 | afents | ack? |
| 04:46.06 | ahven | $ file dfu-util |
| 04:46.06 | ahven | dfu-util: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, statically linked, not stripped |
| 04:46.15 | ahven | the one at http://downloads.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.11/images/neo1973/ |
| 04:46.15 | ahven | :P |
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| 05:47.41 | ahven | err |
| 05:47.56 | ahven | has the root password been added in the late builds? |
| 05:48.11 | ahven | blank password doesn't let me log in |
| 05:48.45 | ahven | and last, but not least |
| 05:48.45 | ahven | # ssh root@192.168.0.202 |
| 05:48.45 | ahven | Once you press 'enter' (empty password), you should now have a root login. |
| 05:48.56 | ahven | the intro is still the same though... |
| 05:52.11 | *** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 05:54.59 | josch | MichaelShiloh, hi! i dont want to bother you - only wanted to ask what's going on. |
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| 06:05.23 | flexd | Morning! |
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| 06:24.56 | mjbroek | morning |
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| 07:18.33 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 07:36.52 | ScaredyCat | tries to bribe MichaelShiloh |
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| 07:40.44 | flexd | yawns |
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| 08:14.34 | thos | ScaredyCat, around? |
| 08:15.02 | ScaredyCat | yea |
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| 08:27.53 | thos | ScaredyCat, heh, just saw your bug comment |
| 08:28.22 | thos | ScaredyCat, same issue, openmoko-mediaplayer has a custom theme but doesn't distribute it |
| 08:29.50 | thos | same issue as I mentioned on the mailing list* |
| 08:32.08 | ScaredyCat | the thing is I don't thnik it's suppoerted / developed anymore... |
| 08:32.23 | thos | ScaredyCat, it's open source! |
| 08:32.26 | thos | we can fix it! |
| 08:32.37 | thos | i told abraxa about this problem months ago anyway |
| 08:32.39 | ScaredyCat | well, yes, but aren't we expecting a new version |
| 08:32.49 | thos | a new version? |
| 08:32.53 | thos | isn't it in openmoko svn? |
| 08:33.59 | ScaredyCat | dunno... I may be taking balls |
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| 08:39.19 | CVirus | aren't we getting pouches or earphones :-( |
| 08:39.25 | thos | haha |
| 08:39.28 | CVirus | i don't have 10 people to but the freerunner with me |
| 08:39.38 | thos | ScaredyCat, that guy just attaached a screenshot of my theme.. |
| 08:42.20 | CVirus | I WANT MY POUCH |
| 08:42.26 | CVirus | i'm so killing steve |
| 08:42.48 | *** join/#openmoko Mek (n=marijn@eljakimit.xs4all.nl) |
| 08:45.49 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs_ (n=tsdogs@62.123.180.130) |
| 08:45.55 | ScaredyCat | thos: erm.. so it's your theme that's got bugs, not mine ;) |
| 08:47.25 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 08:47.42 | buz | will production gta02 be all black? (i sure hope so) |
| 08:48.14 | Sup3rkiddo | i heard rumours of an all yellow one |
| 08:48.19 | XorA|gone | buz: I think so, if not purchase a case from your friendly OpenMoko employee :-) |
| 08:48.32 | Sup3rkiddo | s/OpenMoko/Openmoko/ |
| 08:48.47 | XorA|gone | ~lart marketing guys |
| 08:48.47 | apt | breaks out the Hoover and sucks up marketing guys |
| 08:48.52 | buz | mhh prying open cases and swapping innards sounds like pain |
| 08:49.09 | XorA|gone | I guess instead of being OM it now just became O |
| 08:49.26 | XorA|gone | buz: its like ten seconds job |
| 08:49.39 | buz | yeah unless you damage antenna connectors or something like that |
| 08:50.05 | CIA-42 | openmoko: 03zecke * rbb2704b0466f 10/src/libraries/qtopiaprediction/wordprediction.cpp: [prediction] Use the center of the points and update the todo item |
| 08:50.06 | CIA-42 | openmoko: 03zecke * r7f8d1b48f3e4 10/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [prediction] Begin describing the key positions in terms of rects and not as center of a square |
| 08:50.23 | Sup3rkiddo | the ibg O |
| 08:50.31 | Sup3rkiddo | *big |
| 08:50.39 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 08:51.27 | ScaredyCat | XorA|gone: are the cases an exact match? |
| 08:51.44 | CVirus | omg .. no video play back on the freerunner 1 |
| 08:51.46 | CVirus | ! |
| 08:51.48 | CVirus | stupid shift key |
| 08:53.09 | XorA|gone | ScaredyCat: gta02v5 that O employees have match the ones for gta02v5 MP |
| 08:53.11 | ScaredyCat | ebays bonues pouch and headset |
| 08:53.31 | ScaredyCat | ok... |
| 08:53.43 | CVirus | I think I'll buy an N810 and wait for the GTA03 |
| 08:53.45 | CVirus | too bad |
| 08:54.11 | ScaredyCat | but do the cases for the 01 match the 02 |
| 08:54.13 | Sup3rkiddo | XorA|gone, O sounds weird |
| 08:54.16 | Sup3rkiddo | Om |
| 08:54.17 | XorA|gone | ScaredyCat: no |
| 08:54.18 | Sup3rkiddo | maybe |
| 08:54.27 | ScaredyCat | so how ccould you swap them then |
| 08:54.30 | XorA|gone | Sup3rkiddo: Om sounds like monks chanting |
| 08:54.42 | Sup3rkiddo | peace of mind |
| 08:54.51 | XorA|gone | ScaredyCat: well O employees have all black cases on prototypes |
| 08:55.11 | ScaredyCat | right.. and aren't the mp ones all black ? |
| 08:55.38 | gambler | CVirus: there will be another open phone soon....no GPS tho. |
| 08:55.58 | ScaredyCat | so swpping an all black one for another all black one might take 10 mins or so... but it's pointless |
| 08:55.58 | XorA|gone | ScaredyCat: I dont know what colour they are, I was just saying in case they are not, we could black market the ones we have :-) |
| 08:56.15 | CVirus | gambler: will be waiting :-) |
| 08:56.22 | CVirus | gambler: I've been waiting for over a year now :-) |
| 08:56.41 | ScaredyCat | wants one of each part in each colour so I can make up my own colour scheme |
| 08:56.51 | XorA|gone | CVirus: the n810 is a sweet bit of hardware, all it needs is a mic and gsm modem |
| 08:57.21 | CVirus | for the gsm thingy .. I'll just hook it with my 6600 via bluetooth |
| 08:57.33 | CVirus | it doesn't have a mic ! |
| 08:57.34 | XorA|gone | I hook it to my Kaiser |
| 08:57.37 | CVirus | how will I make internet calls then ! |
| 08:58.12 | CVirus | wtf |
| 08:59.00 | CVirus | the n800 and the n770 have microphones |
| 08:59.05 | CVirus | why the fuck did they remove it from the n810 |
| 08:59.11 | CVirus | stupid nokia |
| 08:59.14 | CVirus | fucken capitalists |
| 08:59.17 | XorA|gone | Oh it does |
| 08:59.22 | XorA|gone | my mistake |
| 08:59.49 | CVirus | its wikipedia page says nothing about it anyways |
| 08:59.59 | XorA|gone | CVirus: it has one, I just checked with skype |
| 09:00.00 | buz | i would so buy a n810 if it had gsm |
| 09:00.18 | XorA|gone | CVirus: I dont remeber the docs mentioning it, so I never really checked before |
| 09:00.28 | buz | would be downright stupid not to have a mic, relaly |
| 09:00.40 | XorA|gone | well it has one, for sure |
| 09:01.09 | buz | oh the thing has gotten quite affordable. 320usd orso |
| 09:08.55 | thos | ScaredyCat, I was going to ask if you can help me improve the colours in the Moko theme |
| 09:14.02 | ScaredyCat | I'm happy to help where I can |
| 09:14.21 | *** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 09:14.24 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 09:15.31 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.157) |
| 09:17.35 | ScaredyCat | is the only way to switch themes to restart x ? |
| 09:29.00 | SpeedEvil | You can start multiple X servers. |
| 09:29.12 | SpeedEvil | But I suspec that doesn't answer your question. |
| 09:29.24 | SpeedEvil | Also - the WM is what does themes - so restarting that should work |
| 09:30.02 | *** join/#openmoko mac2k (n=mac2k@ip-62-143-58-151.PH-1411B-BSR64K-01.ish.de) |
| 09:31.57 | ScaredyCat | I thought a gconf update should trigger it.. |
| 09:32.15 | SpeedEvil | I know. |
| 09:32.18 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@84-255-246-158.static.t-2.net) |
| 09:32.26 | SpeedEvil | I only supply unhelpful answers. |
| 09:32.35 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 09:34.58 | *** join/#openmoko Trevi (n=Trevi@host119-124-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:35.56 | zash | coffee! |
| 09:38.47 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@129.84-49-131.nextgentel.com) |
| 09:42.25 | SpeedEvil | wonders how many people reading the MLs have been searching the internets for the modem updating files in case they've leaked. |
| 09:43.57 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r251 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (22 files in 4 dirs): |
| 09:43.57 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: Implemented Device/GetAntennaPower |
| 09:43.57 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: Partially implemented Device/GetInfo (IMEI) |
| 09:43.57 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: Reorganized libfreesmartphone python test layer |
| 09:43.57 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: Removed caching of SIM status (Not sure if it is the right thing to do...) |
| 09:56.36 | ScaredyCat | SpeedEvil: I have to admit to testing the secruity on the links ;) |
| 09:59.46 | thos | ScaredyCat, correct |
| 09:59.53 | thos | ScaredyCat, changing the gconf key will change the theme |
| 10:00.30 | ScaredyCat | it changes the theme but the apps don't seem to ack that an change |
| 10:00.30 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 10:00.31 | thos | ScaredyCat, however, if you do it from outside X (e.g. ssh) then it won't work unless you are connected to the same dbus bus |
| 10:01.42 | ScaredyCat | I'm doing it from a script, lauched from then menus |
| 10:01.54 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 10:02.03 | thos | hmm |
| 10:02.13 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@f053153167.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:02.27 | thos | ScaredyCat, well, if you have set ~/.gtkrc for example, this overrides the gconf setting |
| 10:02.40 | thos | ScaredyCat, if you give me the script I can take a look |
| 10:03.03 | ScaredyCat | sure, 1 sec while I test something |
| 10:06.43 | ScaredyCat | http://pastebin.ca/996920 |
| 10:07.12 | *** join/#openmoko raster_ (n=raster@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 10:07.48 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r252 10/trunk/software/pyneod/ (11 files in 2 dirs): |
| 10:07.48 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: fixed timeout issue |
| 10:07.48 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: sms receive/read fixed |
| 10:09.53 | florian | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:11.04 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=gzba4143@AMontsouris-153-1-110-253.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:12.05 | zash | good coffee drinking time |
| 10:14.26 | flexd | morning |
| 10:15.19 | ScaredyCat | thos: sorted it! |
| 10:15.21 | ScaredyCat | w00t |
| 10:15.28 | thos | woo |
| 10:15.30 | thos | sorted what? |
| 10:17.28 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 10:18.34 | SpeedEvil | I'm guessing he's written a complete set of user-ready phone applications. |
| 10:19.09 | SpeedEvil | Or maybe just worked out how to change themes. |
| 10:19.46 | *** part/#openmoko freebzh_jabber (n=freebzh_@80.248.214.43) |
| 10:20.01 | *** join/#openmoko freebzh_jabber (n=freebzh_@80.248.214.43) |
| 10:20.34 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 10:21.19 | guillaum1 | ScaredyCat: hi. Do you know an application already using PhoneKit with dbus ? |
| 10:21.44 | Sup3rkiddo | the dialer |
| 10:21.54 | Sup3rkiddo | uses phonekit |
| 10:22.44 | thos | Messages also uses PhoneKit |
| 10:22.54 | thos | (the SMS application) |
| 10:23.03 | thos | oh and the GSM indicator I think |
| 10:23.16 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=KenSentM@kensentme.xs4all.nl) |
| 10:23.17 | guillaum1 | Sup3rkiddo, thos: thanks ! I'll look at the code |
| 10:23.50 | Sup3rkiddo | yay....my first good deed today |
| 10:24.09 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2B554.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:26.39 | ScaredyCat | yes, thos ... theme switching |
| 10:27.34 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@edu-38.162.zhaw.ch) |
| 10:27.52 | SpeedEvil | has GPS antenna :) |
| 10:28.41 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 10:28.41 | SpeedEvil | has GPS antenna with the wrong plug :< |
| 10:28.45 | zash | has coffee |
| 10:29.22 | SpeedEvil | Has anyone used an external antenna with GTA01 GPS - and if so - how do you switch it? |
| 10:29.37 | ScaredyCat | what frequecy antena do we need... |
| 10:29.43 | SpeedEvil | GPS |
| 10:30.17 | ahven | plug & play |
| 10:30.26 | ahven | no switching required |
| 10:30.27 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 10:30.31 | SpeedEvil | I just ordered the wrong one. |
| 10:30.53 | Sup3rkiddo | laughs at SpeedEvil |
| 10:33.26 | SpeedEvil | sends ninja salmon to attack Sup3rkiddo. |
| 10:35.01 | *** join/#openmoko christian_ (n=christia@p5B16F996.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:35.19 | ScaredyCat | no, I mean I was given some antenna - I want to know if it's compatible |
| 10:35.38 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 10:35.46 | SpeedEvil | Does it plug into the little hole on the side? |
| 10:35.54 | SpeedEvil | If so, does it pick up GPS. |
| 10:35.59 | SpeedEvil | If so, it's compatible. |
| 10:38.46 | ScaredyCat | fails at #1 |
| 10:38.48 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:42.13 | SpeedEvil | passes ScaredyCat a hammer. |
| 10:42.40 | SpeedEvil | pases ScaredyCat http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8859 |
| 10:44.29 | ahven | hmm |
| 10:44.32 | ahven | pretty nice |
| 10:50.29 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-244-142.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:52.23 | *** join/#openmoko affen (n=kala@194.126.113.157) |
| 10:53.13 | affen | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards |
| 10:53.19 | affen | is not possible anymore? :( |
| 10:56.44 | *** part/#openmoko jeremy_chang (n=jeremy_c@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
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| 11:25.25 | Weiss | affen: hmm? |
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| 11:37.54 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 11:38.48 | Weiss | affen: i'm still just learning, but i think you need to substitute "opkg" instead of "ipkg" |
| 11:42.13 | affen | Weiss, I'm not that dumb :) |
| 11:43.02 | affen | I can understand the difference between non-existent package and wrong commandline |
| 11:44.26 | Weiss | :) no problem... what goes wrong when you try? (i'd kind of like to substitute the keyboard as well, so i'm interested if it doesn't work..) |
| 11:44.52 | SpeedEvil | I also want an alternate keyboard. |
| 11:45.40 | SpeedEvil | And I was playing with matchbox-stroke - which I found interesting. |
| 11:47.19 | affen | no matchbox-keyboard-inputmethod package |
| 11:47.21 | affen | for starters |
| 11:47.36 | affen | opkg list | grep keyboard |
| 11:48.01 | affen | same with -im |
| 11:48.03 | affen | and -applet |
| 11:48.20 | *** join/#openmoko MarkTheDaemon (i=MarkTheD@phpbb/modifications/MarkTheDaemon) |
| 11:50.18 | *** join/#openmoko Lord_M (n=larry@200.184.118.132) |
| 11:50.47 | ScaredyCat | does it work ok SpeedEvil |
| 11:50.47 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 11:50.53 | SpeedEvil | It used to |
| 11:51.18 | SpeedEvil | I'm talking of Novembers images say. |
| 11:51.25 | *** join/#openmoko rtm (n=rtm@pool-151-199-53-60.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 11:51.27 | ScaredyCat | ahh k.. might test that |
| 11:51.34 | ScaredyCat | affen: which repo ? |
| 11:51.40 | affen | ScaredyCat, default |
| 11:51.55 | affen | yesterdays image methinks |
| 11:52.00 | ScaredyCat | try mine |
| 11:52.23 | affen | link? |
| 11:52.37 | *** join/#openmoko SirBob1701 (n=mcginley@139.84.102.34) |
| 11:52.49 | ScaredyCat | actually.. |
| 11:52.52 | ScaredyCat | don't.. |
| 11:53.06 | ScaredyCat | I'll add them to my build list |
| 11:57.37 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-58-170-82-200.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 11:59.11 | ScaredyCat | they'll be available shortly I hope.. (provided they build ok ) |
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| 12:17.31 | cb22_ | i dont know much about gfx, but when the screen changes, are all areas redrawn or just certain ones (thinking of xdamage) |
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| 12:45.59 | Mek | ljp: do you happen to know anything about Qt4 for X11 on openmoko, or do you strictly deal with qtopia? |
| 12:47.16 | edistar_ | raster: ping |
| 12:48.22 | raster | edistar_: pong |
| 12:49.59 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 12:51.11 | edistar_ | raster: it may be a stupid question but as the sd card and the screen are both tied to the glamo, couldn't one tell the glamo to get the video data from SD? I thought of this because the bottleneck is only between glamo and cpu.. so if one could only send the intructions where and which data to grab, could the glamo do that? as I said, may be a completely stupid idea.. it may be that all data must pass through the cpu |
| 12:52.09 | Mek | wouldn't that at least require the video to already be decoded? (except perhaps for mpeg4) |
| 12:52.15 | raster | edistar: 1. glamo can ONLY decode mpeg4 |
| 12:52.32 | raster | edistar: 2. u are missing filesystem checking and decode - tho u can probably handle that |
| 12:52.57 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa_ (n=abraxa@pD95FCFFB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:52.59 | raster | edistar: 3. u'd need an api/mechanism to FEED it the data in exactly the mp4 stream it wants AND decode to screen (u'l need an nda to get that info) |
| 12:53.12 | raster | so 1. codec only is possible |
| 12:53.25 | raster | 2 its really complicated with a lot of gtochas |
| 12:53.28 | raster | 3. u need an nda |
| 12:53.37 | *** join/#openmoko Jonashdsf (n=jonas@wop.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be) |
| 12:53.42 | edistar | raster: ok, was just an idea :) |
| 12:53.54 | raster | possible |
| 12:53.56 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@edu-38.162.zhaw.ch) |
| 12:53.57 | raster | for a limited usage case |
| 12:54.12 | raster | any code we do for this will not live beyond a gta02 |
| 12:54.12 | edistar | ok |
| 12:54.18 | edistar | raster: yeah, true |
| 12:54.20 | raster | and that means its a poor software investment |
| 12:54.26 | raster | if we do it the oss way |
| 12:54.34 | raster | we would need to build a good generic infrastructure for this |
| 12:54.40 | edistar | I can see that it's not very practical for you.. |
| 12:54.44 | raster | that will be clean dand not be nasty hack-code |
| 12:54.50 | raster | if u dont want to be laughed at |
| 12:54.57 | raster | and that takes a lot of effort time -a nd thus money |
| 12:55.12 | raster | and as such... if it doesnt live on for many products... is not worth it |
| 12:55.12 | raster | :( |
| 12:56.05 | edistar | raster: do you have any if there will be a 3d chip in the gta03? and which one potentially |
| 12:56.08 | edistar | ? |
| 12:57.22 | raster | can't say |
| 12:57.34 | raster | as such we don't really talk about future products |
| 12:57.38 | edistar | ok |
| 12:57.41 | raster | esepcially when our current one isnt out the door |
| 12:57.42 | raster | :) |
| 12:57.57 | raster | u'll have to divine it oyourself from mailing lists and snippets of info |
| 12:57.59 | edistar | raster: :P but it will be more successful than the glamo, I suppose |
| 12:58.12 | raster | ut i can say we are looking at the samsung 6400 right now |
| 12:58.27 | raster | finding SEPARATe gfx chips for embedded devices is HARD |
| 12:58.33 | raster | almsot all are integrated in the SOC |
| 12:58.39 | raster | so u basically can forget it |
| 12:58.45 | raster | if its not in the SOC - dont bother |
| 12:58.52 | edistar | I was wondering why OM took the glamo anyway |
| 12:59.32 | Vegar | it sounds like the slow glamo bus cripples the cpu |
| 12:59.37 | Vegar | or am I wrong? |
| 12:59.55 | edistar | Vegar: no, it cripples graphics output |
| 13:00.02 | raster | edistar: decision was made befor ei joined |
| 13:00.06 | raster | but i believe it was: |
| 13:00.13 | raster | 1. to get extra SDIO lines to wifi coul be added |
| 13:00.32 | Vegar | edistar: yes, but the CPU would spend most of its time pushing data to the glamo |
| 13:00.33 | raster | 2. to remoe video refersh bandwidth from an already memory bandwidth limtied device |
| 13:00.36 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@pD9E0BDF6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:00.42 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@pD9E0BDF6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:00.46 | edistar | Vegar: depends how you write the driver |
| 13:00.52 | raster | 3. try and make up for a low powered device trying to drive VGA |
| 13:01.11 | raster | edistar: it depends on what u do |
| 13:01.17 | SpeedEvil | wonders if the OLPC chip is available. |
| 13:01.18 | raster | if its able to b acceleated at all on the glamo |
| 13:01.21 | raster | and if it is accelerated |
| 13:01.30 | raster | if it isnt - u go back to doing it in cpu and dumping the pixels |
| 13:01.58 | raster | also i think a belief that the spec sheet said "opengl es" |
| 13:02.03 | raster | but the problem is the gotchas |
| 13:02.10 | raster | i dont think they read the detailed info |
| 13:02.17 | raster | like can not to vga res for opengl |
| 13:02.19 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if they had the detailed info. |
| 13:02.37 | raster | 256x256 textues really limits u to uniniteresting use of the 3d chip |
| 13:02.48 | raster | and no render-to-texture is a major bummer for anything 2d |
| 13:02.59 | raster | as u almost always end up needing itnermediate buffers |
| 13:03.10 | SpeedEvil | FPGA! |
| 13:03.20 | SpeedEvil | wonders idly how much the glamo costs. |
| 13:04.10 | SpeedEvil | Though FGPAs with a large chunk of a meg onboard are not cheap even today. |
| 13:04.30 | raster | and apparently they consume a lot of power |
| 13:04.35 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 13:04.44 | SpeedEvil | Though they've gotten better than they were. |
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| 13:05.10 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 13:05.33 | SpeedEvil | realises that his current project might almost be able to drive the LCD. |
| 13:05.46 | Vegar | what advantages does the glamo bring? |
| 13:05.48 | edistar | SpeedEvil: your project being? |
| 13:06.03 | SpeedEvil | edistar: a small microcontroller interfaced to a SDRAM. |
| 13:06.07 | edistar | Vegar: an additional SDIO for the SD card |
| 13:06.11 | edistar | SpeedEvil: nice |
| 13:06.21 | raster | thu getting u wifi |
| 13:06.24 | SpeedEvil | edistar: it would not do any accelleration, but could in principle replay a framebuffer to the LCD. |
| 13:06.25 | raster | thus |
| 13:06.26 | edistar | Vegar: cause that SDIO used for sd in the gta02 is used for wifi |
| 13:06.37 | Vegar | ok |
| 13:07.01 | edistar | are there things like SDIO multipliers that could have been used? |
| 13:07.07 | SpeedEvil | If I Was Designing It. I suspect I'd have gone for an extra microcontroller with SDIO. |
| 13:07.34 | SpeedEvil | But then, if I was designing it, I'd have vague scribles, and little more without funding. |
| 13:07.50 | edistar | SpeedEvil: hehe |
| 13:07.59 | raster | hehehe |
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| 13:13.15 | edistar | raster: thanks for the info ;) my idea --> /dev/null :P |
| 13:13.53 | raster | HAHAHAHA |
| 13:14.03 | raster | seriously - glamo does a few good things |
| 13:14.15 | raster | but its downsides imho are an issue if u want to do anything animated |
| 13:14.20 | raster | stills is what it can do |
| 13:14.43 | raster | our memory bandwidth on the gta01 is 50m/sec |
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| 13:15.24 | raster | well a bit more |
| 13:15.40 | raster | but we are down to about 40m/sec because of the vidoe refrsh for a vga display |
| 13:15.48 | raster | he glamo ups our BW to 53m/sec or so |
| 13:15.50 | edistar | raster: can that be compensated somehow or will performance definitely drop in gta02? |
| 13:15.55 | raster | as we get that back |
| 13:16.06 | raster | so system memory bandwidth goes up |
| 13:16.11 | raster | good for executiona nd performance |
| 13:16.20 | raster | but now to get data to video - u go thru a 7m/sec pipe |
| 13:16.23 | raster | then u lose again |
| 13:16.29 | raster | so it depends what u do |
| 13:16.34 | raster | as suh tho |
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| 13:16.44 | raster | almsot all designs these days use up some syste mem bandwidht for video refresh |
| 13:16.44 | edistar | ok |
| 13:16.49 | raster | imho the trick is NOt to use VGA |
| 13:16.55 | raster | go back to QVGA |
| 13:17.01 | raster | or WQVGA |
| 13:17.04 | raster | or so |
| 13:17.07 | raster | cuts it down by a lot |
| 13:17.11 | edistar | well.. that'd make the creen useles |
| 13:17.11 | raster | and frankly - still looks good |
| 13:17.15 | edistar | *useless |
| 13:17.16 | raster | no |
| 13:17.17 | raster | not at all |
| 13:17.21 | raster | most phones have that screen |
| 13:17.26 | raster | its not useless at all |
| 13:17.35 | raster | actually spend some time looking at them |
| 13:17.36 | edistar | but for looking at pictures its much cooler to have vga |
| 13:17.40 | edistar | likewise for browsing |
| 13:17.55 | raster | its just as nice in QVGA/WQVGA |
| 13:18.03 | raster | u canr read most of the text @ vga |
| 13:18.18 | raster | i think there ar ea few poele - lik eme, with better than 20/20 vision that can actually make out such small text |
| 13:18.35 | raster | i have experienced a lot of people and their level of vision |
| 13:18.45 | raster | 19 out of 20 people have much worse than i do |
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| 13:18.52 | raster | and even i think that the vga is pointless - i |
| 13:18.54 | raster | CAN read |
| 13:19.00 | raster | but its not that much to write home about |
| 13:19.12 | raster | and i'd rather have smoother interaction |
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| 13:19.25 | edistar | I can't say without testing :) |
| 13:19.30 | raster | trust me |
| 13:19.31 | raster | i have |
| 13:19.32 | raster | :) |
| 13:19.56 | raster | anyway |
| 13:19.58 | raster | time to bail |
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| 13:20.03 | edistar | it wouldn't be a problem to use OM with qvga, right? might it even be possible to switch easily? |
| 13:20.05 | raster | ajios! |
| 13:20.13 | edistar | raster: thanks again :) |
| 13:20.22 | raster | edistar: its porbably what we need to do anyway |
| 13:20.45 | edistar | ok |
| 13:20.50 | raster | as frankl qvga screens are MUCh easier to source, cheaper, and allow us to do more with gfx for less |
| 13:20.59 | raster | and frankly.. are "good enough for a phone |
| 13:22.22 | ScaredyCat | thos: just fyi - it is your theme on the mediaplayer |
| 13:22.27 | ScaredyCat | (bug) |
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| 13:28.38 | Bish | freerunner seems to be quite ready, right? |
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| 13:32.33 | ScaredyCat | thos: what ever happened to your gtk theme editor... it looked promising |
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| 13:33.12 | linuxxr | i hope it is ready |
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| 13:34.54 | Bish | :) me too |
| 13:35.02 | Bish | just cant wait, i hope it wont be sold out or something |
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| 13:48.38 | CIA-42 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4398 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (libopkg/opkg.c libopkg/opkg.h tests/libopkg_test.c): opkg: implement package listing in new libopkg |
| 13:49.09 | thos | ScaredyCat, oh |
| 13:49.15 | thos | ScaredyCat, the pixbuf theme editor? |
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| 13:50.01 | ScaredyCat | http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2007/08/27/unnamed-project/ |
| 13:50.08 | thos | ScaredyCat, yeah I should probably dig that out and make the code available |
| 13:50.27 | ScaredyCat | it would make things easier :) |
| 13:50.48 | thos | well, it doesn't solve the fact that the pixbuf theming is slow on gta02/01 |
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| 13:52.55 | Bish | hm guys.. will freerunner released with qtopia? |
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| 13:53.25 | thos | Bish, wouldn't *you* like to know! |
| 13:53.58 | Bish | why? |
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| 13:54.11 | thos | Bish, you tell me |
| 13:54.22 | Bish | gr.. |
| 13:57.33 | CIA-42 | openmoko: 03miles * rbe24d407704d 10/src/ (Makefile.am tests-motion.c): motion sensor code fixed |
| 13:59.19 | CIA-42 | openmoko: 03andy * r0631bb2f6c73 10/src/ (Makefile.am dm2.c dm2.h tests-logs.c): split-out-logs.patch |
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| 14:05.22 | CVirus | there was this video long ago on the mailing list about accelerometers ... link ? |
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| 14:08.58 | CVirus | that thing named shookle or something |
| 14:09.00 | CVirus | can't recall |
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| 14:49.51 | CVirus | damn .. can't find it |
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| 14:54.53 | loufoque | will the freerunner be released before christmas, and if then, will it still be that expensive? |
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| 15:18.10 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r253 10/trunk/software/pyneod/pygsm/genericmodem.py: convert modem-charset to unicode before dbus-transport |
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| 15:40.02 | CVirus | MichaelShiloh: Cairo, Egypt ... suggestions :-D ? |
| 15:41.55 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r254 10/trunk/software/pyneod/pygsm/genericmodem.py: fixed typo |
| 15:45.25 | edistar | loufoque: lol |
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| 16:28.23 | saurabh1403 | hello everyone |
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| 16:30.53 | elation | Hell |
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| 16:52.56 | cworth | o |
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| 17:31.32 | CIA-42 | openmoko: 03zecke * r4352b577eb93 10/src/libraries/qtopiaprediction/ (wordprediction.cpp wordprediction.h): Make the API future proof. Use a utf8 encoded string even if we just extract the first letter and use it as latin1 |
| 17:32.01 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r255 10/trunk/software/pyneod/ (pygsm/genericmodem.py pypppd.py): |
| 17:32.01 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: fixed: hangup an initated call |
| 17:32.01 | CIA-42 | freesmartphone.org: release muxer line if pppd crashes |
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| 17:40.00 | doc|fail | howdy, so, I've got someone in a potential group of ten who's interested but worrying about that led thing. I know it's only minor but just to be clear, they're going to fix that on all phones, right? |
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| 17:44.27 | tc | doc|fail: I've tried to get an answer in here from Michael Shiloh and on the mailing list, but nothing. |
| 17:46.00 | uzytkownik | Hello. Sorry for question that 'answer' is in topic but (approximately) when GTA02 will be released? On wiki 'spring 2008' is indicated as possible date. However as most of spring is gone it would be nice to know either more precise date or that date has been shifted. |
| 17:46.25 | doc|fail | uzytkownik: soon |
| 17:46.34 | doc|fail | not set date (publicly) |
| 17:47.25 | doc|fail | uzytkownik:we know it has gone through production testing for yield and had gone into destructive testing so if that works out ok it should be in production soon |
| 17:48.21 | summatusmentis | if it fails destructive testing, does it go back through PVT once tweaked? |
| 17:49.24 | doc|fail | I'm not a production engineer but probably depends on how big the differences are |
| 17:49.43 | summatusmentis | yeah, that makes sense |
| 17:49.54 | XorA|gone | play it safe, dont expect anything until june, that way it could be early in your mind :-) |
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| 17:53.53 | uzytkownik | OK. Thanks for information. I'll wait until the end of June. |
| 17:55.57 | tc | doc|fail: Have you got any ideas to get information about the LED issue? |
| 17:56.24 | doc|fail | tc: pitchforks and flaming torches |
| 17:56.31 | tc | haha |
| 17:56.48 | doc|fail | tc: really, I don't think it's a problem at all, but would be nice to be able to say 'this revision has been made' |
| 17:57.02 | doc|fail | it's only a slight extra draw on power for the moment the led is lit |
| 17:57.55 | tc | I thought that too, but the silence is starting to worry me. |
| 17:59.28 | ewon | my TyTn II arrives monday |
| 18:01.56 | SpeedEvil | A new app request. http://www.geekologie.com/2007/08/rocklighter_website_for_concer.php |
| 18:02.31 | kdean06 | Someone requested I test some headset things for my reviews today so I dug out my headset and there no new image. :( |
| 18:04.05 | doc|fail | SpeedEvil: Hah, I was at a concert once in about 2003 and was holding up my phone so someone away from the concert could listen. Other people started lighting their phones. I think I started a trend :( |
| 18:04.25 | summatusmentis | ewon: why'd you buy a TyTn II ? |
| 18:04.46 | doc|fail | ugh, windows mobile |
| 18:04.48 | doc|fail | kills |
| 18:12.57 | mmontour | doc|fail: If you're referring to the Vanlug group-buy, the LED issue is not the only one I'm concerned about. There was also something about a too-small capacitor in the audio output path, and also (IMHO) a decent chance that more HW bugs will be found after the first batch of phones has been shipped. I also include GSM/GPS/etc. firmware as "hardware" since it seems users will not be permitted to upgrade those in the field. |
| 18:13.26 | doc|fail | mmontour: oh, hello there :) |
| 18:13.30 | doc|fail | reads |
| 18:14.40 | doc|fail | mmontour: I hadn't heard about the audio capacitor |
| 18:15.51 | mmontour | Checking the list archives for a reference... |
| 18:15.59 | doc|fail | what's the effect of that? |
| 18:17.09 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e44bf13.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 18:17.12 | *** join/#openmoko Lord_M (n=larry@200.184.118.132) |
| 18:17.37 | mmontour | Here's one msg in the thread: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002089.html (as I said I haven't had time to keep up and see how it ended) |
| 18:18.54 | doc|fail | thanks |
| 18:19.48 | *** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:20.35 | doc|fail | mmontour: seems it's only related to bass on the speakers, not headphones |
| 18:21.54 | wibbit_ | wishes all loud speakers on mobiles (beyond the phone ringing) would globally unanimously stop working, for ever |
| 18:22.31 | doc|fail | hehe |
| 18:22.56 | doc|fail | yeah, btu you can't have crazy frog without decent bass on the speakers |
| 18:23.05 | doc|fail | forgot to add !!11OMG |
| 18:23.16 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 18:23.21 | doc|fail | gets back in his box |
| 18:23.28 | wibbit_ | :) |
| 18:25.56 | anrp | crackle |
| 18:27.30 | wibbit_ | I can't be the only one, that gets anoyed on public transport having to listen to some one elses idea of nice music, being blared out over tiny speakers |
| 18:27.53 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. we need an 18" sub in the neo. |
| 18:28.58 | wibbit_ | honestly, I'd be happy to have an optional 34" sub with the neo |
| 18:28.58 | wibbit_ | because at least I could then |
| 18:29.00 | wibbit_ | A) Laugh at the dopy git carrying it around |
| 18:29.05 | wibbit_ | B) pick it up and drop it on them |
| 18:29.08 | wibbit_ | repeatedly |
| 18:29.14 | wibbit_ | with conviction |
| 18:29.27 | doc|fail | until the police came |
| 18:30.10 | wibbit_ | true |
| 18:30.17 | wibbit_ | then they'll be able to help me |
| 18:31.03 | SpeedEvil | with conviction. |
| 18:31.22 | wibbit_ | hmmm |
| 18:31.36 | wibbit_ | wrong sort of conviction, besides, they don't convict, the judge does that :p |
| 18:32.02 | doc|fail | wibbit_: not our cops :( |
| 18:32.11 | wibbit_ | doc|fail: where you from? |
| 18:32.37 | doc|fail | wibbit_: living in vancouver, transit cops here taser people who run from them having not paid the $2.50 fare |
| 18:33.04 | wibbit_ | Well, tasering a deviant who's obviously out to take over the world, isn't quite the same as conviction |
| 18:33.34 | doc|fail | nope, but it's close to dropping a heavy object on them repeatedly, with conviction :) |
| 18:33.55 | wibbit_ | Were they listening to really loud music when they were running away? |
| 18:33.58 | doc|fail | also, take over the world? $2.50 at a time? :) |
| 18:34.11 | wibbit_ | doc|fail: obviously trying to bankrupt "the man" |
| 18:34.16 | doc|fail | wibbit_: no, they were hearing 'bzzzzzzt! |
| 18:34.32 | wibbit_ | hehehe |
| 18:34.44 | wibbit_ | shouldn't really laugh, as it's probably not nice |
| 18:34.47 | wibbit_ | but, it's funny |
| 18:34.51 | wibbit_ | so sue me :D |
| 18:34.59 | doc|fail | calls his lawyer |
| 18:35.00 | mwester | kdean06: I'll have a new kernel for you to test in a few hours. openmoko.org was down all night, so my build had to wait until morning. |
| 18:35.18 | kdean06 | .org went down too? |
| 18:35.19 | kdean06 | Okay. |
| 18:35.21 | kdean06 | Cool. :) |
| 18:37.00 | ScaredyCat | affen: ping |
| 18:37.06 | wibbit_ | pong |
| 18:37.16 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak (n=stefreak@frnk-4d01f148.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:37.23 | loufoque | how come the iphone is superior to the freerunner, costs less, and was released way before? |
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| 18:38.02 | wibbit_ | loufoque: define superior |
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| 18:38.50 | kdean06 | loufoque, It's not. Bulk ordering coupled with cult following ensured SOME sales. Because they could produce it faster. |
| 18:39.08 | kdean06 | loufoque, That said, Apple didn't get my money. Openmoko did. |
| 18:39.22 | wibbit_ | sales of the iphone isn't nearly as good as apple hoped |
| 18:39.38 | *** join/#openmoko linuxxee (n=brian@ip70-178-27-23.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 18:39.59 | loufoque | wibbit_: superior hardware |
| 18:40.18 | wibbit_ | loufoque: what is it about the iphone that is superior? |
| 18:41.22 | mwester | Apple has huge resources in terms of money to spend on development, engineers to throw at development, has no real concerns about the openness of the hardware to consider, has huge experience in extraordinarily-good design of hand-held products, and because Steve is not afraid to loose money on the first million or two units sold. And it doesn't hurt that Steve can strong-arm AT&T either. |
| 18:42.09 | wibbit_ | still wants to know what is superior (not including looks) |
| 18:42.35 | mwester | That said, "superior" is a value judgement, and my response is based on the things that I consider to be of value. Frankly, most Apple-fan-boys don't value "open" very much. |
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| 18:43.19 | wibbit_ | I wouldn't buy a first generation any thing from apple |
| 18:43.38 | mwester | (Apple could package the contents of their trash cans, call it "i-trash", put it in that snazzy apple packaging, and it would sell. |
| 18:43.39 | wibbit_ | they seem to treat the first early adopters as beta testers |
| 18:43.42 | mwester | ) |
| 18:43.57 | loufoque | it's smaller, thinnier, weights less, better design, while having the same size of screen, it has a faster CPU, a better graphics accelerator, quad-band GSM, EDGE, a camera, more buttons, light and proximity sensor, usb 2, more powerful battery, more flash memory |
| 18:44.14 | loufoque | much more flash memory, I should say. |
| 18:44.29 | wibbit_ | loufoque: do you actually have any idea what you're talking about? |
| 18:44.52 | loufoque | about how the iphone hardware is better and costs less. |
| 18:45.02 | wibbit_ | right |
| 18:45.02 | doc|fail | loufoque: no gps, non-replaceable batter, lower res screen |
| 18:45.11 | doc|fail | *battery |
| 18:45.18 | ScaredyCat | and the iphone smells too |
| 18:45.25 | wibbit_ | and, erm, the iphone only has 1 button |
| 18:45.25 | wibbit_ | 1 |
| 18:45.27 | doc|fail | hat proc is in the iphone? |
| 18:45.31 | loufoque | the fact that the freerunner has a GPS is pretty cool, yes. |
| 18:45.38 | doc|fail | stabs self |
| 18:45.41 | doc|fail | *what |
| 18:45.56 | loufoque | the main problem with the iphone is that it's not open. |
| 18:46.07 | wibbit_ | and it's from apple |
| 18:46.24 | wibbit_ | apple is worse than microsoft |
| 18:47.01 | wibbit_ | Apple iphone has more memory, but it's fixed. You're limited to 8 or 16GB, theoretically the freerunner will be unlimited as it's expandable. |
| 18:47.20 | wibbit_ | The screen has a lower res, and isn't as high quality as the free runner (though it is multi touch which is cool) |
| 18:47.59 | wibbit_ | Yes, in a few places the iPhone is better, but in many places it is not |
| 18:48.14 | doc|fail | better != nicer to look at |
| 18:48.16 | wibbit_ | loufoque: May I suggest, before you make assertions, that you spend a bit of time actually reviewing the difference |
| 18:48.34 | zedstar_ | got an iphone yesterday for work purposes and flashed the bastard....not bad 169 quid |
| 18:48.42 | wibbit_ | fears the iPhone probably does look better than the soon to be released freerunner |
| 18:50.15 | *** join/#openmoko fulgas (n=fn@a83-132-24-119.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 18:51.50 | zedstar_ | stuck me vodafone PAYG SIM in |
| 18:52.18 | wibbit_ | and? |
| 18:52.26 | zedstar_ | works fine |
| 18:53.17 | zedstar_ | i jailbroke it i mean..took 10 minutes |
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| 18:54.07 | loufoque | wibbit_: a 8 GB microSD card is ridiculously expensive |
| 18:54.18 | zedstar_ | first then i did was SSH in and changed password and broke it :) |
| 18:54.22 | wibbit_ | zedstar_ are you not concerned that apple will release an update that will render your phone dead? |
| 18:54.24 | zedstar_ | apparently u cant do that |
| 18:54.47 | zedstar_ | wibbit no cos i updated it from 1.1.2 to 1.1.4 they have been cracking every version |
| 18:54.48 | wibbit_ | loufoque: They are not cheap, but you don't have to buy loads of 8GB ones, you can buy smaller ones, and in time they will drastically come down in price |
| 18:55.11 | zedstar_ | plus it is 169 quid i couldnt really get anything better for that price unlocked |
| 18:55.29 | doc|fail | loufoque: expensive... for now... |
| 18:55.32 | wibbit_ | zedstar_ fair enough |
| 18:55.51 | zedstar_ | plus im not paying for it....research purposes like |
| 18:56.24 | wibbit_ | I think though, I'll wait for a few months after the freerunner release, before I get one, as I think mmontour is right, that problems will be found after release (just as they are found in ALL products) |
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| 19:00.58 | zedstar_ | one thing that is quite impressive on the iphone is the way it seamlessly changes from wifi to gprs/edge when roam about |
| 19:02.01 | wibbit_ | I used the iPhone to do a bit browsing, and I do like how smooth zooming in and out and navigating, going from app to app, was incredibly smooth |
| 19:02.05 | wibbit_ | didn't test the roaming though |
| 19:02.41 | wibbit_ | the fanatic, who's phone I was looking at, wouldn't let it out of his site |
| 19:02.52 | wibbit_ | fanatic fanatic fanatic |
| 19:03.06 | zedstar_ | the browser is nice but other than that i dont find anything that amazing about it......edge is still a bit slow |
| 19:03.17 | loufoque | 3G is needed |
| 19:03.27 | wibbit_ | yup, all in all, I struggle to stay awake |
| 19:03.28 | loufoque | for decent speed |
| 19:03.32 | XorA|gone | to break an iphone, turn it sideways and try and open a keyboard |
| 19:03.39 | XorA|gone | then watch the apple junkies squirm |
| 19:03.42 | zedstar_ | yeh....i have my nokia tablet hooked up to 3.5G and is miles better browsing experience in terms of speed |
| 19:03.58 | loufoque | 3.5G? What's that? |
| 19:04.04 | zedstar_ | HSDPA |
| 19:04.09 | doc|fail | hsdpa? you bastard |
| 19:04.12 | loufoque | that's 3G to me |
| 19:04.27 | doc|fail | we get 1mb for $5 here :( |
| 19:04.38 | XorA|gone | HSDPA rules, but I dont get it here :-( |
| 19:04.45 | wibbit_ | loufoque: yes, but to you, the iPhone is better, so we know how much faith to put in your opinion :p |
| 19:04.57 | loufoque | HSDPA is 3G to wikipedia too |
| 19:05.24 | zedstar_ | well it is popularly used to not mean UMTS |
| 19:05.42 | zedstar_ | i wouldnt loose sleep over it ;) |
| 19:06.04 | loufoque | 3.5G is more wimax and stuff |
| 19:06.09 | zedstar_ | also the Nokia icon says 3.5G so blame them |
| 19:06.55 | loufoque | hmm actually wimax is 4G |
| 19:07.05 | XorA|gone | HSDPA is 3.5G same as GPRS is 2.5G |
| 19:07.11 | Robot101 | wimax is so 4G, 3.5G is definitely HSDPA |
| 19:07.16 | XorA|gone | EDGE is 2.5G I meant to say |
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| 19:07.32 | Robot101 | it's 3G technology plus a bit more... :D |
| 19:07.33 | doc|fail | you're all arguing about made up terms :) |
| 19:07.51 | zedstar_ | well yeh like i say it's all academic anyway all cellular networks suck :) |
| 19:08.04 | zedstar_ | ping is still crap on 3.5G |
| 19:08.50 | zedstar_ | i certainly wouldnt want to pay a contract for the crap that is out there |
| 19:09.03 | loufoque | 4G is a move in the right direction |
| 19:09.08 | loufoque | it's IP-based |
| 19:09.11 | anrp | my computer has 4G! |
| 19:09.15 | anrp | ... of ram |
| 19:09.18 | anrp | does that count? |
| 19:09.23 | loufoque | no |
| 19:09.32 | anrp | boo |
| 19:09.45 | loufoque | are you even using a PAE or 64 bit kernel? |
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| 19:10.15 | malik1972 | @anrp> we have 128G |
| 19:10.23 | loufoque | otherwise you only have 3 GB |
| 19:10.37 | anrp | i know, and i don't care enough to recover more than 3.2g |
| 19:10.38 | anrp | so meh |
| 19:11.22 | XorA|gone | has 6G in 3 computers, thats even better |
| 19:11.33 | anrp | 6g? |
| 19:11.46 | Qwell | XorA|gone: triple-core? |
| 19:11.46 | malik1972 | 128g in one computer |
| 19:11.46 | XorA|gone | 4G + 1G + 1G |
| 19:13.08 | loufoque | anrp: just enable PAE in your kernel |
| 19:13.12 | mwester | decides to join in on the contest, and figures he's a winner for the most lop-sided system: a 800MHz P-III with 1GB RAM. |
| 19:13.45 | loufoque | my P3 only has 512 |
| 19:13.55 | malik1972 | hehe |
| 19:14.03 | anrp | that's lopsided? |
| 19:14.28 | wibbit_ | zedstar_ I fear that traditional ISP's are going to start sucking as much as mobile networks |
| 19:14.36 | wibbit_ | Not speed wise, but locking down services |
| 19:15.15 | doc|fail | wibbit_: if that's the case then there's an opening for wifi networks |
| 19:15.29 | XorA|gone | mwester: I got a 600Mhz Celeron Mobile with 1GB (otherwise known as eeePC) |
| 19:15.32 | anrp | hopefully running on licensed frequencies |
| 19:15.41 | wibbit_ | doc|fail: Possibly, but to be useful they would still need to link to a traditionally ISP |
| 19:15.47 | anrp | running a business on 2.4 is a marginal idea, at best |
| 19:16.02 | ScaredyCat | eeePC - a PC for people Up North |
| 19:16.11 | XorA|gone | IP by avian carrier, cut out the middle man |
| 19:16.12 | anrp | north? |
| 19:16.15 | doc|fail | wibbit_: they can connect to an isp but it need not be your traditional ISP |
| 19:16.28 | ScaredyCat | the byeck Pc is out later for them too... |
| 19:16.29 | wibbit_ | doc|fail: hmmm |
| 19:16.41 | ScaredyCat | anrp: cultural joke... |
| 19:16.50 | XorA|gone | is Up North |
| 19:16.50 | doc|fail | ScaredyCat: it's ok, I got it :) |
| 19:17.18 | XorA|gone | is not Dan Sath |
| 19:17.27 | zedstar_ | grins at scaredycat |
| 19:17.54 | zedstar_ | wibbit yeh they will all still bleed us dry |
| 19:18.47 | wibbit_ | My concern is the whole idea of net neutrality |
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| 19:19.52 | wibbit_ | Unless rational/independent governments (that excludes the US I fear) get involved, we could find that the ISP's can not hold us to ransom, but limit what we can do, or charge extravigant prices |
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| 19:20.33 | zedstar_ | hates telecos like BT who can make obscene profits yet still wanna charge per minute on wifi networks etc |
| 19:20.49 | anrp | ..on wifi? |
| 19:21.06 | zedstar_ | yeh on wifi |
| 19:21.26 | malik1972 | @all> where can i find openmoko x86 images etc? |
| 19:21.30 | zedstar_ | and apply roaming charges on wifi also just to catch u out more |
| 19:21.49 | anrp | what wifi are we talking about |
| 19:21.55 | anrp | 802.11? 2gsm? |
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| 19:23.24 | zedstar_ | anrp BT in the UK |
| 19:24.05 | anrp | right but what network type |
| 19:24.15 | zedstar_ | wifi 802.11 |
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| 19:25.38 | anrp | http://www.dalkescientific.com/writings/diary/archive/2007/06/01/lolpython.html < lol |
| 19:25.49 | anrp | per minute on a packet network is weird |
| 19:26.32 | zedstar_ | the whole business model seems to be well we paid millions for the infrastructure but we gonna rape u anyway for money way over the odds to make large profits for some old geezers in stripey suits |
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| 19:30.10 | wibbit | and to be fair, in most cases, they have invested a huge amount of money in the infrastrucutre, but, if they start heavily impeding the performance of certain protocols/ports/hosts to prioratise some one else's it would upset me |
| 19:31.45 | doc|fail | zedstar_: I don't think it's that, it's that they know that if they don't lock it down it becomes a commodity. |
| 19:32.24 | doc|fail | of course they don't realise that there are plenty of people out there who'd use it much more if it was less locked down, if it was more widely installed and was actually not crap |
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| 19:32.48 | zedstar_ | but why not invest some of the obscene profits they make back into the infrastructure.....cos they dont need to unless a government intervenes |
| 19:33.41 | wibbit | zedstar_ because, then they wouldn't be as obsenely rich |
| 19:33.54 | doc|fail | zedstar_: no, it's the government intervening that has caused this mess. They give subsidies to certain companies and give virtual monopoly rights to certain ISPs |
| 19:34.16 | doc|fail | look at at&t, they played ball on the wiretapping mess and have since gotten massive government projects |
| 19:34.17 | wibbit | doc|fail: here you're talking about the us government |
| 19:34.28 | wibbit | not all governments are always making the same mistake |
| 19:34.49 | doc|fail | wibbit: not just, look at canada too, 5 or 6 providers but so little real competition the market is stagnant |
| 19:34.50 | zedstar_ | in the EU for example we recently saw action to stop the telecos ripping us over GSM roaming charges |
| 19:34.52 | zedstar_ | things happen |
| 19:34.55 | zedstar_ | but it is too slow |
| 19:35.31 | doc|fail | zedstar_: I don't see that as a major problem for most people, who does that cut costs for? travelling businessmen mainly |
| 19:35.34 | wibbit | zedstar_ however, I also think that they intervene when they shouldn't |
| 19:36.09 | wibbit | zedstar_ i'm perfectly happy for mobile providers to charge fee's when crossing mobile networks, I had no issue withthat. |
| 19:36.29 | wibbit | zedstar_ I just made sure that i was on the same network as most of my friends, or just used the mobile sparingly |
| 19:36.37 | zedstar_ | yeh i dont care myself but was pointing out that they do get involved now but not often |
| 19:36.45 | zedstar_ | i wont use GSM abroad |
| 19:36.50 | wibbit | zedstar_ however, then ofcom banned that, and they made the money up some where else, so now I get charged more |
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| 19:37.27 | wibbit | zedstar_ they roaming charges, vodafone for example had already put in place things to try and reduce that cost. |
| 19:37.44 | zedstar_ | i just think the consumer is not getting value for money from telecos in relation to the profit |
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| 19:37.56 | zedstar_ | but if u dont mind then fair enough |
| 19:38.16 | wibbit | I've got a bigger issue with Banks at the moment :) |
| 19:39.34 | doc|fail | zedstar_: it's the lack of competition that's the problem :/ |
| 19:39.49 | doc|fail | zedstar_: and that competition is limited by the number of licenses the governments give out |
| 19:39.50 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: billions |
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| 19:41.04 | SpeedEvil | 20 billion pounds for 3G licenses alone in the UK. |
| 19:41.45 | doc|fail | yeah, similar happened in ireland, then when they got the licenses they couldn't actually afford to roll out the networks because the licenses cost so much |
| 19:42.07 | doc|fail | so Ireland ended up being behind the rest of the world and is only catching up now |
| 19:42.14 | doc|fail | still better than canada though :/ |
| 19:42.50 | SpeedEvil | OTOH - telecoms companies had utterly insane values at the time of the 3G auctions IIRC. |
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| 19:44.03 | wibbit | as much as I love this conversation, gets me no closer to owner a freerunner :( |
| 19:44.46 | doc|fail | SpeedEvil: only on paper |
| 19:45.05 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 19:45.06 | wibbit | doc|fail: that seems to be all that matters in the current climate |
| 19:45.33 | doc|fail | wibbit: the best quote I've seen to describe the current fiasco is 'freaking doooomed' |
| 19:46.05 | doc|fail | read somewhere that even if the US taxed its population 100% it *still* can't afford to pay off its future obligations |
| 19:46.14 | wibbit | doc|fail: hehe, very appropriate |
| 19:46.26 | wibbit | isn't sure why he's laughing |
| 19:46.29 | doc|fail | hah |
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| 20:31.34 | markit | anyone knows the price in Euros of FreeRunner? 399$ should be 250 euros, but usually there are tricks about the rate applied |
| 20:31.52 | markit | how much will it cost here in Europe (Italy) |
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| 20:38.11 | kdean06 | markit, If it works the same way it did with the Neo1973 the way to answer that question is to get a currency converter and convert $399 USD into New Taiwan Dollars, and then find out how many Euros are needed to make that number of New Taiwan Dollars. |
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| 20:39.20 | markit | kdean06: I ask because a lot of gods are sold in italy/europe at a much higher price than currency conversion would require |
| 20:39.33 | kdean06 | markit, I got about 255.55 Euros with that math. |
| 20:39.39 | markit | seems that company fix a "special higher price" for EU |
| 20:39.49 | kdean06 | But that assumes that it's done the same way it was alst time. |
| 20:39.56 | dcordes | I'm ordering 10 of those gods |
| 20:40.00 | markit | well, I hope :) |
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| 20:51.56 | loufoque | usually electronic stuff that is sold for x dollars is sold for x euros |
| 20:51.58 | loufoque | if not more |
| 20:52.09 | loufoque | it's much more interesting to import them |
| 20:54.57 | wibbit | and x pounds |
| 20:55.32 | loufoque | that's theft |
| 20:55.51 | roh | well.. it must differ since euro-prices are required to include _all_ taxes by law inside the eu |
| 20:56.15 | roh | $prices in the us do not. they mostly include no taxes at all |
| 20:56.54 | roh | then you also have the difference between sales tax and vat system and depending on from where, to where the one or other tax or feeĆ |
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| 20:59.28 | roh | ah.. well.. and you have to adhere to weee and gurantee regulations for everything you import into EU and especially when its sold/resold ... so yeah.. people can spare money when they import themselves (in huge amounts since single pieces do eat up the bargain in shipping costs) have no defects and do not re-sell |
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| 21:27.52 | kdean06 | mwester, That kernel ready yet? :D |
| 21:28.07 | mwester | The build is failing on xserver-kdrive. :( |
| 21:28.24 | mwester | I can put the kernel up, but I have no means to test it with a standard image. |
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| 21:32.15 | kdean06 | mwester, What's that mean? I'm confused. |
| 21:33.41 | kdean06 | Would the kernel work with rootfs from the buildhost? |
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| 21:42.27 | mwester | kdean06: I don't know if it would work; I suppose one could try. I was hoping to sync up, and build anew from the latest sources and test before I sent anything out. But HEAD is broken again. |
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| 21:45.44 | kdean06 | Please post the kernel then, I'll go ahead and see. :) |
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| 21:46.39 | SpeedEvil | roh: WRT WEEE - I'll dispose of any surplus freerunners for FIC. |
| 21:47.12 | doc|fail | me too, but only within the next month :D |
| 21:47.14 | SpeedEvil | mwester: is this a kernel with the resume patches you're trying to getg released? |
| 21:48.56 | doc|fail | <- in vancouver |
| 21:49.01 | doc|fail | er, wrong chan |
| 21:49.08 | mwester | Rather the opposite - this one has resume patches that make it work -- but don't want to release them lest I end up being hunted by vicious hit-penguins for publishing crimes against Linux. I'm looking for folks to confirm/deny that this fixes it, then I need feedback on better solutions. |
| 21:49.17 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 21:49.43 | SpeedEvil | can test stuff. |
| 21:50.01 | mwester | http://moko.mwester.net/ <-- :) |
| 21:50.36 | mwester | It may not resume at all, possibly... but it works with an older jffs2 image for me. |
| 21:51.46 | SpeedEvil | k |
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| 21:54.02 | kdean06 | I'll test it and give some feedback. |
| 21:55.37 | mwester | excellent. Most of that stuff in the patchset is debug tool code, but buried in there are some real changes as well. If it doesn't work, I'd like to try some of the debug switches to find out why it doesn't work for you. Just be careful with what you might copy and paste; the logs may contain your IMEI and other info. |
| 21:56.10 | SpeedEvil | Probably not till I get up in the morning. |
| 21:56.22 | SpeedEvil | I'd have to get out of bed and reboot the phone. |
| 21:56.25 | SpeedEvil | I turned it off. |
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| 23:07.23 | ScaredyCat | mwester: ping |
| 23:09.31 | *** part/#openmoko gronslet (n=gronslet@084202068129.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 23:10.14 | ScaredyCat | slaps mwester |
| 23:10.21 | ScaredyCat | it works! |
| 23:12.24 | mwester | From mars.interplanetary.net (394.123.11.1) icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable |
| 23:12.34 | mwester | er, pong? |
| 23:13.04 | mwester | it works, as in it awakens from suspend from a call or SMS more than once? |
| 23:13.28 | ScaredyCat | it wakes from suspend |
| 23:13.47 | rtm | Wow! a fully functional suspend? That's big news. |
| 23:14.03 | ScaredyCat | calls work |
| 23:14.07 | ScaredyCat | audio is ok |
| 23:14.15 | ScaredyCat | dialer dies after each call |
| 23:14.34 | mjr | well the dialer is flaky anyway ;] |
| 23:14.38 | ScaredyCat | but I need to check to see if that's what happens normally |
| 23:14.57 | ScaredyCat | 3x suspend + 3 calls so far.. |
| 23:14.59 | mwester | :) I'm just working on the serail port overrun problem on resume; the dialer is just one of many user-space suspend/resume problems. |
| 23:15.24 | mwester | ScaredyCat: cool. that's three neos now that exhibit the same response post and pre hack. |
| 23:15.52 | ScaredyCat | I haven't rung the neo when it's suspended to see what happens there |
| 23:15.55 | mwester | (the kernel has the FIFO almost turned off, just to model a worst-case scenario WRT to the timing) |
| 23:16.24 | mwester | Oh, all you have to do is wrap it up while it's suspended -- an incoming change in signal quality will wake it. |
| 23:16.42 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 23:16.56 | mwester | (but an incoming SMS or call will send more data, and is more likely to cause it to fail if its not working just right) |
| 23:17.03 | ScaredyCat | well, that's gotta be better than starting to ring and then hanning up on the caller |
| 23:17.14 | mwester | :( I ran one of my prepaid sims out of funds several times in the past week alone. :( |
| 23:17.31 | ScaredyCat | well, I'm roaming too! |
| 23:17.36 | mwester | Oh, ouch! |
| 23:18.17 | mwester | If anyone knows how to arrange for a diagnostic message to be sent by the GSM to the host at some prearranged time in the future, that would make debugging much cheaper... |
| 23:20.26 | ScaredyCat | it might seem odd... but is there a way to not make the screen bright white when it comes back? |
| 23:21.28 | mwester | The entire management of the display during suspend/resume needs to be revisited -- it does it like a laptop, and it makes for a lot of flashing and flickering effects as it suspends and resumes. |
| 23:21.56 | mwester | The audio also "clicks" when suspending/resuming. |
| 23:22.21 | mwester | Plus it's waaaay slow; we need to defer the resume of a lot of the hardware. |
| 23:22.29 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but that's useful :) that's ow I knowit's gone into suspend |
| 23:22.32 | mwester | For example, why resume the USB just to answer the phone? |
| 23:22.54 | ScaredyCat | (the click) |
| 23:23.18 | ScaredyCat | it this kernel supposed to be generating logs / |
| 23:23.18 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 23:23.27 | mwester | Iagree about the click -- when I wrap up the Neo to wake it up, that's how I know it just resumed. :) |
| 23:25.10 | mwester | Logs? try "cat /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/nspy_buffer" (repeatedly, the internal buffer is large, and the /sys filesystem can only show a small amount at a time until the internal buffer is empty.) |
| 23:25.34 | ScaredyCat | I'd use this kernel just to ditch the frking mmc debug crap |
| 23:26.08 | mwester | Yeah, you can actually get useful info from dmesg without the mmc stuff. |
| 23:26.17 | *** part/#openmoko VDVsx (n=VDVsx@bl4-233-89.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 23:26.20 | ScaredyCat | I get nothing on the cat |
| 23:26.49 | mwester | Very odd. |
| 23:26.51 | ewon | does the compile-you-dirty-bastard shuffle |
| 23:27.22 | *** part/#openmoko freebzh_jabber (n=freebzh_@80.248.214.43) |
| 23:29.00 | mwester | I get this: http://www.pastebin.ca/997909 |
| 23:31.04 | ScaredyCat | that seems useful |
| 23:31.21 | ScaredyCat | root@om-gta01:~# cat /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/nspy_buffer |
| 23:31.21 | ScaredyCat | root@om-gta01:~# |
| 23:31.59 | mwester | Something is broken :( |
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| 23:35.04 | ScaredyCat | right - I must sleep... early start tomorrow.. |
| 23:36.22 | mwester | Sorry, my mistake. I some magic on my rootfs that you don't. |
| 23:36.29 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 23:36.47 | mwester | Try this: echo "1" >/sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/nspy_enable |
| 23:36.59 | ScaredyCat | I did... |
| 23:37.00 | mwester | (I have that in my /etc/init.d/gsmd file) |
| 23:37.43 | ScaredyCat | I'll have a better look tomorrow... muse leep now.. |
| 23:37.47 | mwester | Ok. |
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