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| 02:19.57 | raster | boo |
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| 02:54.35 | wildfire | raster, yah |
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| 02:56.22 | raster | wildfire: ak! |
| 02:56.28 | raster | werd up |
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| 03:09.26 | wurp2|away | Hey, is there anyone in-the-know who can tell me if Steve's announcements about PVT & MP on the mailing list mean what I think they mean? |
| 03:09.46 | linuxxr | y |
| 03:09.49 | wurp2|away | It looks to me as if a late April or early May shipping date is not unlikely |
| 03:10.03 | linuxxr | yes it does but i dont know |
| 03:10.09 | xaid | wurp2|away: Thats the impression that I got as well. |
| 03:10.17 | wurp2|away | woohoo! |
| 03:10.37 | wurp2|away | I think I am moving to Switzerland (from the US) in the next couple of months |
| 03:10.38 | xaid | unless something bad goes in the remaining two milestones :) |
| 03:10.52 | wurp2|away | Is it significantly cheaper to buy here & bring it over as personal property? |
| 03:10.56 | orospakr | Today's images don't seem to start X properly. |
| 03:11.04 | orospakr | at least on my GTA01. |
| 03:11.27 | linuxxr | might be better to buy in europe |
| 03:11.56 | wurp2|away | linuxxr: Are you there? |
| 03:12.00 | xaid | wurp2|away: From reading the mailing list, it seems that the taxes and VAT differ depending on where you go in the EU so it might be cheaper to pick it up from the states and take it with you to Switzerland. |
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| 03:12.11 | wurp2|away | 'cause the VAT charges I've heard about sound obscene |
| 03:12.21 | wurp2|away | xaid: That was the impression I got |
| 03:12.33 | wurp2|away | And it would be a good pitch to the wife to get a FR early ;-) |
| 03:12.47 | linuxxr | no im over here |
| 03:12.54 | linuxxr | usa |
| 03:13.26 | wurp2|away | I thought so, given the hour |
| 03:13.27 | xaid | wurp2|away: yep :D and remember that early adopters get extra goodies. |
| 03:14.00 | wurp2|away | oh yeah, good point |
| 03:14.23 | wurp2|away | orospakr: 4-9 is the latest snapshot that Kevin has approved |
| 03:14.44 | wurp2|away | The latest he's done, too, though |
| 03:15.04 | wurp2|away | orospakr: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Snapshot_review/2008-04-09 |
| 03:16.13 | wurp2|away | Well, I'm off again. I just got excited when I got Steve's email :-) |
| 03:16.42 | xaid | I keep checking my email every hour here :) |
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| 03:28.07 | orospakr | btw, how good are the qtopia images these days? |
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| 04:05.48 | CIA-41 | openmoko: 03sean_chiang * r4352 10/trunk/src/target/audio/om-gta02/gsmhandset.state: low the volumn of reciever at gsmhandset.state |
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| 04:12.44 | jerknextdoor | is there an official forum for the neo freerunner? |
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| 04:32.04 | xaid | jerknextdoor: most of the talk/traffic is on the mailing lists but there is an unofficial forum as well (you'll have to search the wiki for its url). |
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| 04:36.21 | orospakr | Where might I find the logs written by dbus services, xsession, etc.? |
| 04:41.16 | jerknextdoor | xaid: thanks man. |
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| 05:18.27 | CIA-41 | openmoko: 03sean_chiang * r4353 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/phone-kit/moko-sound.c: missing comma |
| 05:19.53 | mbuf | for connecting the debug board with FreeRunner, will there be soldering work (like gta03?) required, or will it have JTAG connectors so we can just plug it in? |
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| 05:48.14 | abraxa__ | mbuf: Same debug connector as before, as far as I'm aware |
| 05:50.41 | mbuf | abraxa__, but, that required soldering; is there place to solder for a JTAG connector? otherwise, it becomes tedious opening it up, everytime? |
| 05:52.11 | abraxa__ | mbuf: Soldering? Where? |
| 05:52.50 | abraxa__ | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Connecting_Neo1973_with_Debug_Board_v2 |
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| 05:53.30 | mbuf | abraxa__, ok; just have to insert the cable |
| 05:53.39 | abraxa__ | Yep :) |
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| 06:03.21 | unknown_lamer | oh yay I was able to switch from t-mo gprs to gprs+wifi for the same price |
| 06:03.37 | unknown_lamer | all I had to do was tell their online thing that I had a phone with wifi and magically the option appeared |
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| 06:17.23 | ScaredyCat | is anyone having build issues atm? |
| 06:17.35 | ajbrun | yeah - i'm tired :( |
| 06:18.01 | ajbrun | i'm having trouble compiling myself in the mornings |
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| 06:50.38 | doc|home | I like steve (in a non gay way), no bullshit with him (at least on the list) |
| 06:51.09 | rtm | It is really nice to get news about the Freerunner. |
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| 06:52.23 | doc|home | yeah |
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| 06:53.13 | ScaredyCat | wonders why doc|home had to qualify that... |
| 06:53.25 | ScaredyCat | do you like some people in a gay way? |
| 06:53.37 | ScaredyCat | would there be anything wrong with that anyway? |
| 06:55.30 | rtm | I wonder if OM could make a viable product that never had software suitable for the general public. There must be enough nerds in the world to support a phone that was intended for a "phone/GPS hobyist" market, mustn't there? |
| 06:57.16 | ScaredyCat | I don't think so. |
| 06:57.36 | ScaredyCat | the 01 was the first, people expected it to work, but not perfectly... |
| 06:57.48 | ScaredyCat | I think people are expecting the 02 to work properly... |
| 06:58.06 | ScaredyCat | with full software in the forseeable future |
| 06:59.09 | CIA-41 | openmoko: 03sean_chiang * r4354 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/daemons/neod/src/buttonactions.c: change the way about detect the change of headset in or out |
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| 06:59.42 | rtm | It's mighty hard for me to imagine the 02 will ever have, for example, a video experience comparable to the iPhone. Maybe they should go for a niche market of hobyists instead. |
| 07:00.05 | ScaredyCat | there's a bigger issue really. |
| 07:00.14 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:01.11 | ScaredyCat | the gta0x's will have problems getting newer hardware into the case simply because manufacturers don't want to open their chips |
| 07:01.48 | rtm | Does anyone know what the ultimate plan is for keeping the time on the neos synchronized with external servers? Is it supposed to get time from the GSM, or the GPS, or NTP? |
| 07:02.32 | Tronic_ | GPS and moderately accurate internal clock would be a nice combination. |
| 07:02.35 | ScaredyCat | gsm is possible, ntp when connected is ok.. gps is ok if it's a supported message |
| 07:02.42 | Tronic_ | Others are quite redundant, if the GPS works. |
| 07:02.45 | ScaredyCat | byt the chip |
| 07:02.49 | ScaredyCat | -t |
| 07:02.59 | Tronic_ | NTP is inaccurate over wireless connections and GSM clock is often not available. |
| 07:03.10 | ScaredyCat | but it should be user selectable.. |
| 07:03.47 | ScaredyCat | gps is only useful if you want the time to change when you cross into a new timezone |
| 07:04.05 | ScaredyCat | unless you're using utc + offset |
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| 07:04.44 | Tronic_ | Why would the time change with GPS? |
| 07:04.59 | rtm | I don't know about GSM, but with CDMA you can get time and time zone from the cell phone towers. |
| 07:05.19 | Tronic_ | And you shouldn't generally use UTC+offset, but rather one of the timezones from zoneinfo. |
| 07:05.22 | Tronic_ | E.g. EET. |
| 07:05.29 | ScaredyCat | Tronic_: if you're using gpzda |
| 07:05.33 | Tronic_ | That will correctly handle daylight saving changes too. |
| 07:07.19 | ScaredyCat | from my experience setting time from gsm is routine.. at least it is on all the networks I've used... |
| 07:07.49 | ScaredyCat | and hte neo can support that... |
| 07:08.13 | mjr | probably, but I too see it as rather redundant with gps |
| 07:08.40 | ScaredyCat | not if you can't get a gps fix |
| 07:09.10 | SpeedEvil | you don't need a fix for time - jsut one sat |
| 07:09.28 | mjr | yeah, so you don't go outside ever, you won't perhaps get the time |
| 07:09.29 | ScaredyCat | and it doesn't really make sense to eliminate other options, just make them options... |
| 07:11.17 | mjr | well, at this point it's less of a question of elimination, more of a question of implementation priorities |
| 07:11.34 | ScaredyCat | huh? |
| 07:11.57 | ScaredyCat | it's a tiny thing, if you're spending time doing it then you do it properly. |
| 07:12.35 | ScaredyCat | getting time from sat, gsm or ntp are pretty simple... |
| 07:12.35 | rtm | One of the seldom discussed advantages to the broad deployment of cell phones is that practically everyone is sync'd to an atomic clock now. |
| 07:12.43 | ScaredyCat | the ntp bit has already been done. |
| 07:12.53 | ScaredyCat | the gsm part is an at command |
| 07:13.04 | ScaredyCat | and the gps is juat parsing |
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| 07:25.10 | methril | morning |
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| 07:31.04 | doc|home | ScaredyCat: no specific reason, just though Ishould make it clear, besides, it's you I like in a ga.... sorry, can't say it :) |
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| 07:32.06 | ScaredyCat | hands doc|home an Indian costume |
| 07:32.28 | ScaredyCat | .... or a construction worker hat.. |
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| 07:39.37 | rtm | ScaredyCat: If it is true, as you say, that OM will have a hard time ever getting state-of-the-art chips for their open products, how do they expect their product to ever be attractive to nontechnical users? |
| 07:40.10 | ScaredyCat | I think they hope to educate chip makers... |
| 07:40.24 | ScaredyCat | it's going to be a long haul... |
| 07:40.34 | rtm | No kidding. |
| 07:41.51 | ScaredyCat | but I'm not entirely certain that the neo will ever have appeal to non-geeks.. |
| 07:42.25 | ScaredyCat | I love it, but it's not going to be something my wife would ever want to use... or my grandma.... |
| 07:42.26 | rtm | Personally, and I know nothing about business, I think they should go for the geek market exclusively. |
| 07:42.59 | ScaredyCat | ... well they sort of have... by not having the software done ;) |
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| 07:43.24 | rtm | Geeks are apt to be willing to spend a lot more money on hardware than the general public is. The volume would be low, but they could have healthy margins." |
| 07:43.44 | ScaredyCat | but they are going to need to be careful, there's yet another s/w change on the horizon, even geeks can et pissed off |
| 07:43.52 | methril | i think that is some kind of educational sense |
| 07:44.17 | methril | i you "educate" the non geeks to open devices, it could be possible that freerunner has more and more adepts |
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| 07:45.24 | ScaredyCat | methril: I disagree, you're asking a non geek to pay $400 for a semi working device, when a fully working new model can be had for less... |
| 07:45.54 | methril | well, it's not working now, but in the future... |
| 07:46.05 | rtm | In the US, most non-geeks expect free phones. |
| 07:46.19 | methril | i agree that some people are non going to pay $400 for non working device |
| 07:46.38 | methril | but it's not the goal, the goal it's to have a working and innovative (in sw & hw) device |
| 07:46.51 | ScaredyCat | methril: right. I'll sell you this car I have that runs on water... you can only have the basic parts, but I'll get it working for you in the future |
| 07:47.23 | ScaredyCat | yes, I agree with you on that last point... |
| 07:47.33 | methril | SacaredyCat this is the actual picture, but i'll hope that this canges in the future :D |
| 07:47.33 | rtm | ScaredyCat: What s/w change do you see on the horizon? |
| 07:47.39 | ScaredyCat | but then the target market is not going to be the man on the street |
| 07:47.57 | methril | maybe some day, not now |
| 07:48.12 | methril | but it's anice goal, isn't it? |
| 07:48.17 | ScaredyCat | rtm: there's been no official announcement, even though people have been prodding OM... |
| 07:48.59 | rtm | Something more disruptive than 2007.1 -> 2007.2 ? |
| 07:49.00 | ScaredyCat | but you just need to look at what raster is doing, the sudden interest in qtopia by om employees |
| 07:49.09 | ScaredyCat | that sort of thing |
| 07:49.17 | ScaredyCat | methril: yes, nice goal. |
| 07:49.44 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@62.8.133.125) |
| 07:49.48 | rtm | If they abandon X11, my interest will fade away quickly. |
| 07:50.21 | ScaredyCat | ...I don't think you're the only one... |
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| 07:53.23 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2DC84.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:54.07 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:54.19 | rtm | What sense would it make for OM to move to an OS owned by Nokia? |
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| 07:57.47 | SpeedEvil | In some ways I wish OM would simply publish hardware specs, and get out of the way. |
| 07:58.09 | rtm | But they can't because of NDAs, right? |
| 07:58.10 | SpeedEvil | In my more logical moments, I realise that this probably wouldn't result in a working software platform quicker. |
| 07:58.45 | SpeedEvil | To an extent which is hard to determine, people have been not doing stuff because they're assuming it's being done internally. |
| 07:58.52 | rtm | Maybe they should just provide a robust and full-features API to the hardware. |
| 07:59.15 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - I'm not meaning stuff like the accellerator. |
| 07:59.25 | SpeedEvil | which is unfortunately completely locked down. |
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| 08:11.36 | MarcOChapeau | Hi everyone, |
| 08:11.56 | MarcOChapeau | I recall we had someone from trisoft on the channel. I might be wrong though |
| 08:12.25 | CM | MarcOChapeau: Ask TRIsoft about that.. ;) |
| 08:12.35 | MarcOChapeau | oh :-) |
| 08:13.55 | MarcOChapeau | TRIsoft: will the sales on your site be counted among the first 1000 phones with extra goodies ? |
| 08:14.22 | *** join/#openmoko pyknite (n=pyknite@pub1.heig-vd.ch) |
| 08:14.29 | Tuju | can't you get RSS out of that updates wiki page? |
| 08:15.42 | pyknite | for poeple who don't see... a big update on community page ;) |
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| 08:23.51 | TRIsoft | MarcOChapeau: We're just talking in this minute with OM about the goodies... |
| 08:24.12 | TRIsoft | MarcOChapeau: But i think all devs preordering in the next weeks will get them. |
| 08:25.24 | TRIsoft | MarcOChapeau: But we're happy that we can update the price today after 14 days of waiting. |
| 08:25.42 | pyknite | were can we preoer? |
| 08:25.42 | pyknite | s/preoer/preorder |
| 08:25.52 | rtm | Is it possible to *officially* preorder at this time? I'll I've seen is a bunch of informal pages with people saying "I plan to buy one". |
| 08:25.53 | MarcOChapeau | TRIsoft: that's good news. I figured it might be currently discussed given the big update thread on the ML |
| 08:26.52 | TRIsoft | Our preorder price was a "high water mark". That's what we said from start. New price for single units inside the EU incl. VAT is 350 EUR. |
| 08:28.03 | pyknite | hum very cheap compare to an htc phone or something like that |
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| 08:32.36 | MarcOChapeau | Another quick question to anyone able to respond : a friend of mine is playing withan iPaq and is willing to try out an Openmoko image. It seems the link in the wiki to the iPak image is dead. Has anyone kept an archive ? |
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| 08:41.02 | MarcOChapeau | is negotiating with his bank for a new credit card... mine expires precisely when the Freerunner comes out... :-( |
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| 08:41.44 | Tuju | mmmm, when that *exactly* is ? |
| 08:44.46 | torpor | hiya folks. |
| 08:44.55 | torpor | anyone know whats news .. ? |
| 08:44.56 | *** join/#openmoko suuuper (n=suuuper@81-208-88-100.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 08:45.13 | pyknite | there is an update on the community page |
| 08:45.33 | torpor | url? |
| 08:45.46 | pyknite | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates |
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| 08:48.14 | Tuju | [11:25] <rtm> Is it possible to *officially* preorder at this time? I'll I've seen is a bunch of informal pages with people saying "I plan to buy one". |
| 08:48.15 | Tuju | [11:25] <MarcOChapeau> TRIsoft: that's good news. I figured it might be currently discussed given the big update thread on the ML |
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| 08:48.27 | Tuju | MarcOChapeau: in what thread? |
| 08:48.33 | Tuju | could you post a link? |
| 08:50.17 | MarcOChapeau | Tuju: the thread named "FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update" |
| 08:50.36 | Tuju | yep, i waded that buy didn't find it |
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| 08:50.45 | torpor | thanks |
| 08:51.13 | Tuju | isn't there anything on that in the web? |
| 08:51.52 | MarcOChapeau | Tuju: you can use google and search the list archives or look at the community update page |
| 08:51.57 | CM | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/015080.html |
| 08:52.53 | torpor | this is great news |
| 08:52.56 | Tuju | CM that page doesn't contain string 'preorder' |
| 08:52.59 | torpor | i'm gonna dust off my openmoko project now. |
| 08:53.23 | CM | Tuju: I just searched for the string MarcOChapeau pasted |
| 08:53.58 | pyknite | there is no new about preorder i think... they just say it will be soon possible |
| 08:54.10 | Tuju | sigh, let me get this right: preorders are handled in google and in public mailing list - if you happen to find something about it? |
| 08:54.47 | MarcOChapeau | TRIsoft: I'll just bother you with one more question. My CC expires at the end of the month, so unless the freerunner comes out before may, you won't be able to charge me. Is there a procedure for this special case ? it would be a shame to miss the first 1000 batch just because of that... |
| 08:54.50 | CM | No, I guess all ordering will be done at openmoko.com |
| 08:55.16 | Tuju | CM: "I guess" is the best information about it so far. Thanks |
| 08:55.47 | CM | The people involved are still discussing it, afaik |
| 08:56.06 | CM | As TRIsoft said earlier |
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| 08:56.45 | Tuju | yep, anyway, i won't be wasting my time in mailing list 'i don't wanna charge with usb' and googling around. please, post something concrete into web, is it possible or not. this is obviously faq. |
| 08:57.36 | CM | I'm sure it will be posted as soon as OpenMoko Inc has everything set up |
| 08:59.17 | ciacon__ | Hi all. I have a Q to ordering openmoko... I am waiting @ the edge of my chair to lay fingers on an openmoko and was wondering if there was an official list for group orders or for getting them set up... |
| 08:59.26 | SpeedEvil | No. |
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| 09:04.23 | TRIsoft | MarcOChapeau: Just place the order. We'll contact you, if there's a problem with your expiration date |
| 09:07.34 | ScaredyCat | "Displays the lyrics to the Rick Astley song "Never Gonna Give You Up" in the top right corner of the admin panel." |
| 09:07.37 | ScaredyCat | wtf! |
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| 09:10.38 | Tronic_ | What's the Rick Astley thing? Google made a spoof with it, but is it some bigger Youtube phenomenom that I have managed to miss? |
| 09:10.50 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 09:11.13 | CM | Rick-rolled.. |
| 09:11.29 | Tronic_ | Nothing more to it? |
| 09:11.41 | Tronic_ | I bet there are a lot of silly songs with silly music videos from the 80's... |
| 09:11.42 | SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickroll |
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| 09:12.25 | Cap_J_L_Picard | Tronic_: Youtube put it as the href on all the featured videos. |
| 09:12.45 | Tronic_ | Cap_J_L_Picard: That's when I heard of it. |
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| 09:20.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1340 has been created by reddog(AT)mastersword.de |
| 09:20.02 | cdbot2 | * * no suspend in power menu |
| 09:20.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1340 |
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| 09:23.56 | ScaredyCat | the interview on the wikipedia site is worth watching |
| 09:24.34 | ciacon__ | nice example for a rickroll was www.isohunt.com -> Rick Astley song "Never Gonna Give You Up".... april fools day rocks ;-) |
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| 09:25.02 | pyknite | snif |
| 09:25.13 | pyknite | oups wrong window :( |
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| 09:34.15 | cb22_ | nice status updates from steve :) |
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| 09:48.54 | TRIsoft | EU price update is done. Everybody who already preordered will get an email with the new price today, so don't worry. |
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| 09:49.08 | CVirus | what's the price ? |
| 09:49.21 | TRIsoft | CVirus: 350 EUR incl. VAT |
| 09:49.40 | CVirus | w00t .. update |
| 09:49.50 | pyknite | TRIsoft: where can I preorder? |
| 09:50.05 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 09:50.05 | TRIsoft | For EU at www.trisoft.de |
| 09:51.31 | pyknite | thx... you send in swiss? |
| 09:51.32 | CVirus | 399$ .. cool |
| 09:51.42 | CVirus | you send in Egypt :-D ? |
| 09:51.47 | pyknite | :P |
| 09:52.15 | pyknite | so, est time... I will make my preorder those days ;) |
| 09:52.16 | TRIsoft | We just ship to EU and Switzerland. US and Asia will be handled by Openmoko directly. |
| 09:52.31 | CVirus | and Africa ? |
| 09:52.35 | pyknite | -est + eat |
| 09:52.46 | CVirus | I want my FreeRunner |
| 09:52.53 | TRIsoft | CVirus: Africa by OM also ;) |
| 09:53.03 | rtm | I want your Freerunner too. |
| 09:53.12 | CVirus | it would be cool to use the FreeRunner's GPS while I'm riding my camel going to the pyramids :-p |
| 09:53.22 | CVirus | is living in Egypt |
| 09:53.51 | florian | good morning |
| 09:53.53 | CVirus | which reminds me ... I never rode a camel before .. LOL |
| 09:54.29 | TRIsoft | CVirus: So you hope that your FreeRunner says "turn sharp left now!", so you don't crash against the pyramids again ? |
| 09:54.40 | CVirus | LOL |
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| 09:54.58 | CVirus | I saw the pyramids twice |
| 09:55.51 | CoreDump | wants to visit the pyramids at least once in his life |
| 09:57.05 | josch | "camisole josch" is now known as "everywhere internet umts josch"!! \o/ |
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| 09:58.19 | CVirus | any idea how much will openmoko.com charge for shipping inside the US ? |
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| 09:59.18 | CVirus | Why is the word "Neo" still on the phone ? |
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| 10:00.28 | CVirus | I wonder what "free things" will Steve throw for us early customers :-D |
| 10:00.33 | CVirus | is too excited |
| 10:01.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1341 has been created by reddog(AT)mastersword.de |
| 10:01.02 | cdbot2 | * * openmoko-messages put sms in wrong folder |
| 10:01.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1341 |
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| 10:07.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1342 has been created by reddog(AT)mastersword.de |
| 10:07.01 | cdbot2 | * * openmoko-messages don't print error message on dialing when no GSM connection is there |
| 10:07.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1342 |
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| 10:32.16 | ScaredyCat | anyone know anything about : |
| 10:32.17 | ScaredyCat | remote: Generating pack... |
| 10:32.17 | ScaredyCat | remote: Done counting 106444 objects. |
| 10:32.36 | ScaredyCat | is that some oe thing or git ? |
| 10:33.08 | piksi | people of helsinki/finland, i have another group open: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales |
| 10:33.37 | CM | ScaredyCat: Could it be total number of files? |
| 10:33.42 | trickie_ | ScaredyCat: git |
| 10:33.57 | ScaredyCat | well, that's not the bit that bothers me CM... it's the failure after it |
| 10:34.01 | trickie_ | ScaredyCat: its git working out what it needs to send/receive |
| 10:34.20 | ScaredyCat | ta trickie_ |
| 10:34.22 | ScaredyCat | NOTE: Creating tarball of git repository |
| 10:34.22 | ScaredyCat | fatal: failed to unpack tree object f54af99850ae25da80e491b1864bb90e14c80 |
| 10:36.02 | ScaredyCat | is there a git repo issue ... or is the 100% in "Removing unused objects 100%" simply a %age of progress rather than how much has been removed? |
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| 10:47.15 | pyknit1 | sry... who propose me to bring me a freerunner in switzerland (i was going to eat and i loose the msg :( )? |
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| 10:51.22 | TRIsoft | pyknit1: We would send you one. Personal bring-in service is a bit expensive ;) |
| 10:52.47 | pyknit1 | ok, it was just to know... |
| 10:53.45 | pyknit1 | but, I think I will wait until they give the release date befor ordering |
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| 11:22.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1343 has been created by reddog(AT)mastersword.de |
| 11:22.01 | cdbot2 | * * crash by surfing google images |
| 11:22.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1343 |
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| 11:29.51 | CIA-41 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4355 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (48 files in 2 dirs): opkg: remove opkg.h in preperation for new API |
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| 11:34.59 | SpeedEvil | CVirus: I'm betting on a free bluetooth-3G gateway, with a worldwide paid-up unlimited data contract. |
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| 11:38.33 | RedDog | mwester: good work on suspend! |
| 11:38.40 | rtm | Has suspend been fixed? |
| 11:39.05 | SpeedEvil | looks at mwester |
| 11:39.28 | CIA-41 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4356 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/opkg_download.c: |
| 11:39.28 | CIA-41 | openmoko: opkg: Bug fix for Packages file with a Filename: tag with prepended path. |
| 11:39.28 | CIA-41 | openmoko: Patch from Alexandros Kostopoulos <akostop inaccessnetworks com> |
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| 11:59.48 | MarcOChapeau | TRIsoft: still there ? is it ok if I place my pre-order with my current credit card and update the card info afterwards ? |
| 12:00.27 | TRIsoft | MarcOChapeau: Sure, no problem. |
| 12:00.52 | MarcOChapeau | TRIsoft: ok, that's great :-) |
| 12:01.36 | ScaredyCat | thomasg: see that thing in the distance with 4 legs.... |
| 12:01.46 | ScaredyCat | thomasg: see that barn door behind you... |
| 12:01.49 | ScaredyCat | ;) |
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| 12:33.15 | MarcOChapeau | Preorder done. Crossing fingers to be part of the first batch :-) |
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| 12:35.09 | CIA-41 | freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r194 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (32 files in 3 dirs): |
| 12:35.09 | CIA-41 | freesmartphone.org: Initial version of muxing support |
| 12:35.10 | CIA-41 | freesmartphone.org: Added tests for muxing |
| 12:35.10 | CIA-41 | freesmartphone.org: Added missing licenses |
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| 12:36.59 | pyknite | MarcOChapeau: crossing finger for freerunner will be released soon ;) |
| 12:38.42 | zash | preordering? what have i missed? |
| 12:39.10 | pyknite | you missed the new update this morning |
| 12:39.33 | pyknite | and you can preorder at trisoft.de if you live in europe |
| 12:39.41 | zash | sweet |
| 12:39.48 | pyknite | but always no release date :( |
| 12:41.12 | MarcOChapeau | pyknite: who cares. the important part is being part of the "first-1000" special batch :-) |
| 12:41.31 | pyknite | your right |
| 12:41.36 | pyknite | i hope i can be |
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| 12:41.47 | pyknite | i don't want to wait more |
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| 12:47.27 | zash | bah, but i have no creditcard |
| 12:47.43 | ScaredyCat | hands zash CM's credit card |
| 12:47.54 | zash | :D |
| 12:48.51 | SpeedEvil | I think it said thousands |
| 12:48.56 | SpeedEvil | I don't think it said thousand |
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| 12:52.48 | CVirus | any idea how much will openmoko.com charge for shipping inside the US ? |
| 12:53.04 | jussio1 | Hei all, I have a question about ipkg, is there a specific ipkg channel? or is here ok to ask? |
| 12:54.30 | balrog-kun | jussio1: #oe might be the place |
| 12:54.52 | jussio1 | balrog-kun: thanks! |
| 12:57.38 | thos | jussio1, you can ask me |
| 12:57.46 | thos | jussio1, I am the opkg developer |
| 12:58.11 | thos | oh |
| 12:58.17 | thos | yeah #oe is probably good too |
| 12:59.50 | jussio1 | thos: grand! :) its quite simple actually, I have a repo in my base-feed.conf and I have run ipkg update, however, ipkg doesnt seem to find the packages I kow are in the repo. am I doing something wrng? |
| 13:00.39 | thos | jussio1, did you put a valid dest field in? |
| 13:00.50 | thos | jussio1, I think you can't reuse dest fields, i'm not sure |
| 13:00.58 | thos | so you may have to just specify a new one |
| 13:01.27 | jussio1 | thos: as i have no idea what a dest feild is, Im sure ive screwed it up somewhre. (just learning this) |
| 13:01.45 | thos | jussio1, the field after src/gz |
| 13:02.18 | jussio1 | aye, I have "base" there. |
| 13:02.38 | thos | jussio1, I think the "definition" for that will be in ipkg.conf |
| 13:02.45 | jussio1 | ahh |
| 13:03.43 | jussio1 | hrm, the full ipkg.conf is commented out. :/ |
| 13:04.30 | thos | hrm |
| 13:05.05 | thos | jussio1, just try renaming the dest then |
| 13:05.09 | jussio1 | thos: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63172/ |
| 13:05.24 | jussio1 | thos: anything particular, or? |
| 13:05.47 | thos | well, seems general principle is to call it the repository name |
| 13:06.30 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=khmhm@dsl54009FA6.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 13:06.32 | linuxxr | Y A Y |
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| 13:10.07 | jussio1 | thos: hrm, doesnt seem to help :/ |
| 13:10.28 | thos | jussio1, does ipkg download it when you run ipkg update? |
| 13:10.46 | jussio1 | thos: yes. |
| 13:11.12 | jussio1 | thos: remeber there is a high possibility of pebkac here... ;) |
| 13:11.41 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
| 13:12.07 | jussio1 | thos: the repo in question is the Angstrom Repository, and Im trying to grab apache2 |
| 13:12.57 | thos | jussio1, what does ipkg list|grep apache tell you? |
| 13:13.12 | thos | jussio1, and then check /usr/lib/opkg/lists/ |
| 13:13.32 | jussio1 | ok, ipkg list|grep apache returns nothing. |
| 13:13.47 | RedDog | rtm: not completly, but we (or more mwester) is on the right way! ;) |
| 13:15.52 | jussio1 | thos: this is not an openmoko system. :/ (hence my initial question about the right place for ipkg questions, sorry, should have said that earlier) |
| 13:17.07 | thos | jussio1, oh sorry, s/opkg/ipkg |
| 13:17.10 | jussio1 | thos: may I pm for a moment? |
| 13:17.15 | thos | jussio1, they are almost identical bar one or two features |
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| 13:18.30 | jussio1 | thos: there is nothing in the lists/ folder |
| 13:18.54 | roh | is dfuing the problem away |
| 13:19.36 | thos | jussio1, well, that might be a source of your problem :-) |
| 13:20.06 | thos | jussio1, that directory is where the downloaded package lists go |
| 13:20.11 | jussio1 | ahhh |
| 13:20.15 | thos | jussio1, does ipkg list even show anything at all? |
| 13:21.13 | jussio1 | lots... |
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| 13:21.23 | thos | jussio1, does it show any package descriptions? |
| 13:21.32 | jussio1 | many. |
| 13:22.09 | thos | jussio1, the same number that list_installed has? |
| 13:23.12 | jussio1 | hrm, looks similar (there seems to be several hundred) |
| 13:23.20 | thos | ipkg list|wc -l |
| 13:23.24 | thos | ipkg list_installed|wc -l |
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| 13:24.36 | jussio1 | yes, they are equal. |
| 13:27.19 | thos | jussio1, well, that means you have nothing but your installed packages available |
| 13:27.33 | jussio1 | thos: hrm. ok, not good. |
| 13:27.35 | thos | jussio1, which means the repositories are not being stored properly |
| 13:27.37 | thos | or something |
| 13:27.41 | jussio1 | ok. |
| 13:27.42 | thos | jussio1, how much disk space do yo uhave? |
| 13:27.44 | thos | available |
| 13:27.48 | jussio1 | lots |
| 13:27.54 | jussio1 | umm |
| 13:28.09 | jussio1 | 200 mb? |
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| 13:28.27 | jussio1 | thos: this is an embedded system. |
| 13:28.39 | jussio1 | thos: could it be a permissions issue? |
| 13:28.41 | thos | right, but they often run out of disc space |
| 13:28.52 | thos | no, everything in Angstrom runs as root |
| 13:29.00 | thos | jussio1, what is this you are running and running on btw? |
| 13:29.05 | jussio1 | yeah, of course. |
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| 14:27.05 | NineX | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgqEIp2YmtE |
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| 14:27.26 | mwester | Happiness and Joy - Monday mornings... |
| 14:28.21 | abraxa__ | mwester: Got a case of the Mondays? |
| 14:30.36 | mwester | Yeah. :( I spent all weekend openmoko-ing, and I didn't get my stuff prepared for the Monday morning meetings at work. So I shouldn't be here right now either :D |
| 14:30.57 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 14:31.13 | summatusmentis | I need to find a way to sell my Zaurus |
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| 14:32.14 | abraxa__ | mwester: Preparing your TPS reports, hm? |
| 14:32.45 | CM | Have you seen my red stapler? |
| 14:33.02 | abraxa__ | ;) |
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| 14:36.05 | spelling | what are the green/blue distros other than suse/fedora |
| 14:36.49 | summatusmentis | umm... Kubuntu might be blue |
| 14:36.58 | summatusmentis | Mint Linux is green |
| 14:37.05 | summatusmentis | you can also make any distro any color you want |
| 14:37.11 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 14:37.23 | ScaredyCat | you're selecting your distro based on colour? |
| 14:37.31 | *** join/#openmoko tobmastr (n=tobmaste@gw.sinnerschrader.com) |
| 14:37.38 | CM | You can get OpenMoko in any color you want, as long as it's black (and orange) |
| 14:37.40 | summatusmentis | that's why I picked OpenMoko, it's orange and black, classy |
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| 14:38.23 | CIA-41 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4357 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/ (56 files): opkg: 's/itsy/opkg/' |
| 14:38.26 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@216.27.62.2) |
| 14:39.39 | summatusmentis | ok, random q unrelated to OM, anyone bought corsair ValueSelect RAM before? |
| 14:39.56 | ScaredyCat | sounds crappy |
| 14:40.02 | ScaredyCat | valueselect ... |
| 14:40.26 | CM | Yes, a few weeks ago to some core2 dell machine, worked fine |
| 14:40.42 | ScaredyCat | it sounds like Tesco own brand RAM |
| 14:40.45 | CM | Kingstons value ram works pretty good too, I've used that a lot |
| 14:40.56 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: it's the cheapest, highest rated RAM on newegg |
| 14:41.12 | ScaredyCat | yeah... I did say *sounds* ... |
| 14:41.30 | ScaredyCat | marketing need a new name for it |
| 14:42.06 | ScaredyCat | Cosair VRAM |
| 14:42.25 | CM | vram is something else.. ;) |
| 14:42.31 | ScaredyCat | ppfft |
| 14:42.37 | ScaredyCat | VSRAM |
| 14:43.00 | CM | CBRAM (CheapBastard...) |
| 14:43.05 | ScaredyCat | :D |
| 14:43.08 | ScaredyCat | that's it |
| 14:43.16 | ScaredyCat | TAG RAM... |
| 14:43.30 | ScaredyCat | Tight Arsed Git |
| 14:43.35 | summatusmentis | CM: you've never had any trouble w/ it? |
| 14:44.14 | CM | summatusmentis: Nope |
| 14:44.19 | summatusmentis | excellent |
| 14:44.25 | summatusmentis | orders 2GB |
| 14:44.32 | CM | :) |
| 14:44.56 | mwester | notes that abraxa_ has managed to remove one of his underscores. |
| 14:45.13 | mwester | waits for the other one to go. |
| 14:45.31 | summatusmentis | I won't recognize you anymore abraxa_, if you get rid of your other _ |
| 14:45.55 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@129.84-49-131.nextgentel.com) |
| 14:46.32 | abraxa_ | mwester: I wish! |
| 14:46.42 | abraxa_ | Some dude has abraxa registered :( |
| 14:47.37 | mwester | If he hasn't used it in some period of time, the admins will release it for you. |
| 14:48.28 | abraxa_ | Last Seen: 2 weeks 1 day (15h 10m 31s) ago -- an admin that that already while the guy was even online |
| 14:49.47 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-72-189-254.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:50.16 | summatusmentis | http://www.okcupid.com/profile?u=Abraxa I can only assume this is you |
| 14:50.42 | ScaredyCat | but... but.... |
| 14:50.50 | ScaredyCat | if... |
| 14:50.55 | ScaredyCat | it's too cruel |
| 14:51.57 | CM | summatusmentis: Hehe |
| 14:52.01 | mwester | RedDog: Thanks for your feedback on the suspend/resume functionality. My priority right now is to get caught up with the current OM kernel, and then work on some of the outstanding issues. |
| 14:52.11 | *** join/#openmoko ccube_ (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 14:52.28 | summatusmentis | :-D |
| 14:52.30 | abraxa_ | summatusmentis: Geez, blow my cover, will ya!! |
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| 14:52.35 | summatusmentis | sorry |
| 14:52.39 | CM | summatusmentis: Look at the number one search result: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=abraxa |
| 14:53.03 | abraxa_ | glares at CM |
| 14:53.03 | CM | is always extra helpful :P |
| 14:53.29 | summatusmentis | lollerskates! :-D I mean, whatever floats your boat |
| 14:53.33 | summatusmentis | I don't judge |
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| 14:54.06 | abraxa_ | http://abraxa.darklands.cx/info-contact/ext-info.html - I don't live in Washington ;p |
| 14:54.28 | summatusmentis | no, you apparently live in northfield, MN |
| 14:54.47 | abraxa_ | Uh? |
| 14:54.58 | summatusmentis | see the okcupid link above |
| 14:55.11 | abraxa_ | oh. |
| 14:55.13 | abraxa_ | coughs |
| 14:55.43 | ScaredyCat | hands abraxa_ a cough sweet |
| 14:55.50 | summatusmentis | awesome, RAM has been charged to my card |
| 14:55.53 | ScaredyCat | (only partially used) |
| 14:56.01 | Sup3rkiddo | hehe..thats me |
| 14:56.14 | mwester | summatusmentis: even more awesome when it gets delivered. |
| 14:56.32 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: You're so sweet... we should totally marry. doc|home, you and I. |
| 14:56.43 | mwester | ordered 2GB of RAM on Friday, but his order has been stuck with a note "Doing physical Inventory" since then. |
| 14:56.47 | ScaredyCat | roflmao |
| 14:57.08 | CM | is off to a sucky 3h meeting :( |
| 14:57.23 | ScaredyCat | errrm.. |
| 14:57.25 | Sup3rkiddo | CM, sweet dreams |
| 14:57.43 | ScaredyCat | he's trying for a promotion... all that sucky sucky |
| 14:59.02 | summatusmentis | mwester: where did your order it from? |
| 14:59.18 | Sup3rkiddo | summatusmentis, abraxa_, hi guys |
| 14:59.24 | summatusmentis | hi Sup3rkiddo |
| 14:59.26 | abraxa_ | Ahoy Sup3rkiddo |
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| 14:59.49 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: Who's trying for a promotion? |
| 14:59.58 | ScaredyCat | CM |
| 15:00.07 | abraxa_ | oh |
| 15:00.16 | ScaredyCat | [2008-04-14 15:55:12] * CM is off to a sucky 3h meeting :( |
| 15:00.35 | abraxa_ | lol... that totally went above my head |
| 15:00.46 | ScaredyCat | :/ |
| 15:02.13 | thos | prods ScaredyCat |
| 15:02.25 | ScaredyCat | huh |
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| 15:06.03 | doc|home | abraxa_: I don't do threesomes |
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| 15:06.38 | abraxa_ | doc|home: Wow... way to be greedy. |
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| 15:07.26 | doc|home | abraxa_: hehe |
| 15:07.35 | doc|home | -> work |
| 15:09.31 | ScaredyCat | thos: did you do any video of your 02 ? |
| 15:09.59 | thos | er no |
| 15:10.09 | thos | i don't do videos |
| 15:10.11 | thos | I made photos |
| 15:10.13 | thos | what more do you want! |
| 15:10.21 | thos | LED on... LED off... LED on... |
| 15:10.22 | ScaredyCat | a video. |
| 15:10.24 | thos | not the most exciting |
| 15:10.42 | ScaredyCat | I was thinking more with the accelerometers |
| 15:10.56 | thos | oh, bit difficult to demonstrate |
| 15:11.01 | ScaredyCat | portrait ... landscape....portrait....landscape.... |
| 15:11.07 | thos | well, yeah |
| 15:11.12 | thos | that's about it really |
| 15:11.24 | Basheri | yeah, a video would be awesome ;> |
| 15:11.30 | ScaredyCat | but you could have called xrandr to switch the screen |
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| 15:13.24 | SpeedEvil | Or the 3D accelleration :) |
| 15:13.44 | ScaredyCat | yeah... |
| 15:14.00 | summatusmentis | anyone wanna buy a Zaurus? :-P |
| 15:14.07 | ScaredyCat | you could have thrown it at a wall and played a smashing sound... oh.. wait... |
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| 15:17.46 | SpeedEvil | wants details of the robustness tests. |
| 15:17.57 | SpeedEvil | wants to know if it really will blend. |
| 15:18.40 | summatusmentis | I don't plan on blending my freerunner, I just want one |
| 15:19.54 | ScaredyCat | thos: just building it now... I know I promised to look at it last week, but things got really shit... |
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| 15:21.10 | baze | there isn't any 3d accelleration usable in the neo at the the moment, is there? |
| 15:21.22 | baze | i thought there were no drivers for that yet |
| 15:21.28 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 15:21.36 | SpeedEvil | Sorry for any confusion. |
| 15:21.46 | SpeedEvil | There are no 3D drivers, and it looks like there never will be. |
| 15:22.01 | baze | why is that? |
| 15:22.25 | thos | ScaredyCat, already did the xrandr hack |
| 15:22.39 | thos | ScaredyCat, but the accellerometers need some dejitter |
| 15:22.42 | SpeedEvil | Baiscally as there is no time in OM to do it. |
| 15:23.01 | SpeedEvil | And only OM can do it. |
| 15:23.10 | SpeedEvil | As the display chip is NDAd |
| 15:24.00 | thomasg | and it seems because of the problems the chip has proper 3d-acceleration is extremely complex |
| 15:24.59 | summatusmentis | class |
| 15:25.06 | baze | hm, that really sucks |
| 15:25.11 | ScaredyCat | sounds like a winner .... |
| 15:25.11 | thos | and bandwidth issues |
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| 15:32.01 | Openfree | is there anyone port android to Neo phone? |
| 15:32.17 | peepsalot | SpeedEvil, have you ever seen something *not* blend? |
| 15:32.50 | abraxa_ | Openfree: Are you a troll? No offense but your nick and the mention of android... |
| 15:32.51 | thos | Openfree, no |
| 15:32.58 | thos | Openfree, android is armv5, neo is armv4 |
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| 15:35.45 | Openfree | thos, so u mean, android cannot run on openmoko platform? |
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| 15:36.29 | thos | Openfree, yes |
| 15:38.52 | wurp2|away | Has anyone used 'Thunder'? |
| 15:39.03 | *** join/#openmoko larry_ (n=larry@200.184.118.132) |
| 15:39.07 | wurp2 | It is something to set the neo into fast charge mode |
| 15:39.22 | wurp2 | http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/thunder/ |
| 15:39.25 | MarcOChapeau | yay, I have preorder #107 :-) I'll get the special goodies ! |
| 15:39.45 | wurp2 | MarcOChapeau: What? We can preorder now? |
| 15:40.07 | mjbroek | in europe yeah |
| 15:40.19 | mjbroek | trisoft.de |
| 15:40.21 | summatusmentis | how? |
| 15:40.21 | summatusmentis | oh wait, I'm not in europe, nvm |
| 15:40.21 | wurp2 | dammit |
| 15:40.30 | wiedi | got preorder #23 :D |
| 15:40.33 | wurp2 | So you're really just pre-ordering from the reseller |
| 15:40.40 | *** join/#openmoko JanC (n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC) |
| 15:40.47 | wurp2 | Heh, slashdot uid wars all over again |
| 15:40.47 | summatusmentis | which may or may not get the first batch? |
| 15:40.47 | mjbroek | yeah |
| 15:41.59 | wurp2 | Anyway, thunder, if it's good, looks like it's what my checkFastCharge program would be if I had continued work on it |
| 15:42.29 | wurp2 | Such a simple thing really ought to be in C, not python, I think (unless you had a python app server like underground is planned to) |
| 15:44.08 | MarcOChapeau | wurp2: well, python is good for prototyping ideas, but on a phone, a plain C app might use less ressource |
| 15:45.16 | thomasg | MarcOChapeau, #1 :) |
| 15:47.58 | MarcOChapeau | thomasg: wow, nice :-) |
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| 15:49.50 | CIA-41 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4358 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/Makefile.am: libopkg: stop exporting random symbols into the wild |
| 15:51.46 | ScaredyCat | wonders how many will be in the first batch |
| 15:52.02 | SpeedEvil | 42! |
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| 15:55.15 | act1v8 | Is there any way I can run OpenMoko on an iPAQ hx2750? With Wifi and everything? |
| 15:57.28 | Openfree | thos, can u point me why adroid should run on ARMv5TE. i googled, find that Ben âBennoâ Leslie try to port android to Neo 1973 |
| 15:58.55 | summatusmentis | they've got android running on the C3*00 series of Zaurii |
| 15:59.06 | thomasg | yeah and Guenther "Guenni" Jauch tries to port android to Siemens S3 |
| 16:00.40 | Openfree | i didn't find any hardware requirement description on android webside |
| 16:01.29 | Openfree | is android only for ARM platform? can it possible run on mips |
| 16:02.07 | ScaredyCat | one could argue that if it were opensource it wouldn't matter... |
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| 16:02.20 | thomasg | Openfree, this is _not_ #android |
| 16:09.24 | rtm | summatusmentis: You live in Northfield Mn? |
| 16:09.37 | summatusmentis | no, I'm in Morris MN for school |
| 16:10.09 | summatusmentis | was teasing abraxa_ about http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.okcupid.com%2Fprofile%3Fu%3DAbraxa&ei=2oEDSPSHH4zqiAGMhsWwCg&usg=AFQjCNEv3N18kEnkcc2rhAGlvqEAiFw_oQ&sig2=YNXeIzAikShxs_rkZJLKrA |
| 16:10.16 | summatusmentis | oh god, hold on |
| 16:10.31 | summatusmentis | was teasing abraxa_ about www.okcupid.com/profile?u=Abraxa |
| 16:11.29 | rtm | Oh, I thought you might be a Carl. |
| 16:11.48 | summatusmentis | from Carlton ? |
| 16:12.04 | rtm | Yup. |
| 16:12.11 | summatusmentis | > $40k/yr |
| 16:12.16 | summatusmentis | I can't afford that :) |
| 16:15.09 | summatusmentis | http://morris.umn.edu ftw :) |
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| 16:15.48 | ScaredyCat | $40k/yr ... that's about 10 euros isn't it ? |
| 16:16.06 | summatusmentis | lol, yeah, roughly |
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| 16:42.06 | ccfly | hello :) |
| 16:42.56 | abraxa_ | Hello Mr. Fly |
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| 17:24.47 | summatusmentis | hmm... this is complicated |
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| 17:46.10 | wurp2 | summatusmentis: What is complicated? |
| 17:46.21 | summatusmentis | getting OM running on a Zaurus :) |
| 17:46.35 | summatusmentis | and trying to figure out how to setup OM alongside OE |
| 17:46.37 | wurp2 | ah, yep, that would be |
| 17:46.47 | wurp2 | Why do you want OM to run on your Zaurus? |
| 17:47.00 | summatusmentis | tired of Angstrom and bad interfaces |
| 17:47.09 | summatusmentis | and I want to be able to use OM natively |
| 17:47.15 | summatusmentis | instead of via qemu |
| 17:47.17 | wurp2 | cool |
| 17:47.25 | wurp2 | Hmm, couldn't you try to compile for your PC? |
| 17:47.35 | summatusmentis | what do you mean? |
| 17:47.49 | wurp2 | Not that I'm necessarily advocating that, other than it is probably something someone else has already done |
| 17:48.06 | summatusmentis | an i686 build? |
| 17:48.10 | wurp2 | Well, with qemu you are emulating an ARM processor (and the rest of the neo hw) |
| 17:48.13 | wurp2 | yeah |
| 17:48.16 | wurp2 | that |
| 17:48.53 | summatusmentis | oh... well, yeah. I guess I want to be able to use OM on a pda-like device, and since I don't have a neo device... |
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| 17:52.26 | wurp2 | surely |
| 17:52.51 | wurp2 | I tend to come at things from the POV of "how can I get that done with minimal time invested on my part" |
| 17:53.10 | wurp2 | Rather than "hey, that sounds cool, I'll work on that for the next few weeks!" |
| 17:53.26 | wurp2 | Comes from having way too much stuff to do :-( |
| 17:53.26 | summatusmentis | well, that makes sense, I'm not that invested... but it'd be intersting |
| 17:53.48 | wurp2 | "that sounds cool!" is way more geeky and interesting |
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| 18:06.11 | kdean06 | I've got to be doing something wrong, am I the ONLY one unable to build evas? |
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| 18:06.15 | kdean06 | Oops, wrong channel. |
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| 18:38.17 | josch | kdean06, wrong channel? am i the only one building evas on my neo? :-D |
| 18:38.30 | kdean06 | I'm not bulding it on my Neo. :) |
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| 18:40.25 | pyknite | what's evas? |
| 18:40.53 | rtm | Half of what adolf owned. |
| 18:41.40 | pyknite | euh...? |
| 18:42.30 | pyknite | ok, i found what is it ;) |
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| 18:54.21 | RedDog | mwester: can you summarize what outstanding issues there are? |
| 18:57.11 | wurp2 | Did I miss a conversation? That seems a pretty broad question to throw out there without context :-) |
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| 18:59.35 | kdean06 | That's not even limited to Openmoko. O_o |
| 18:59.43 | kdean06 | Where do I start... :P |
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| 19:03.21 | SpeedEvil | ##politics? |
| 19:04.09 | wurp2 | #sex |
| 19:04.13 | wurp2 | That's where everything starts |
| 19:04.29 | summatusmentis | we got in trouble the last time we went there |
| 19:05.13 | ccfly | That's only because you didn't visit #condom |
| 19:05.35 | ccfly | So you got into #STD at the end |
| 19:05.46 | ccfly | and that's one sad sad channel |
| 19:05.59 | ccfly | not that I've been there of course :) |
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| 19:13.08 | ecraven | yay, freerunner for 350 euro! |
| 19:13.47 | ewon | url? |
| 19:13.48 | RedDog | wurp2: yes, you did :D |
| 19:13.48 | abraxa_ | ccfly: #STD? Severely Traumatized Dudes? |
| 19:15.01 | summatusmentis | ecraven: are you just converting? |
| 19:15.13 | ecraven | i've been waiting for over a year |
| 19:15.15 | baze | ewon: http://www.trisoft.de/freerunner.htm |
| 19:15.42 | ecraven | and finally it looks like i won't have to wait too much longer |
| 19:17.30 | ewon | interesting |
| 19:17.42 | ewon | is there a online distributer in the US yet? |
| 19:17.49 | ewon | (I'm based on the west coast) |
| 19:17.52 | zash | ll |
| 19:18.04 | ewon | although I'm from Europe, so could bring one over next time I'm home |
| 19:18.29 | wurp2 | They're selling open (linux) phones, and their URL ends in htm? |
| 19:18.34 | wurp2 | Who do they think they're fooling! |
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| 19:20.15 | abraxa_ | ewon: EU+Switzerland will be handled by TRIsoft, the rest of the world by Openmoko, Inc. itself |
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| 19:21.23 | wurp2 | and afaict you can't buy one from OM directly yet |
| 19:21.36 | abraxa_ | Yup |
| 19:21.43 | summatusmentis | can't get one from TRIsoft either |
| 19:21.48 | summatusmentis | just pre-orders |
| 19:21.54 | ewon | so has anyone here experience with the GTA0n hardware in sunlight? |
| 19:22.03 | ewon | is it completely unusable, or can one tilt out the glare? |
| 19:22.08 | abraxa_ | ewon: No problems on my end |
| 19:22.12 | ewon | this is really a dealbreaker for me |
| 19:22.26 | abraxa_ | ewon: What area do you live in? |
| 19:22.35 | ewon | abraxa_: Los Angeles |
| 19:22.55 | abraxa_ | Should be easy to find someone with a Neo there :) |
| 19:23.13 | caratorn | ewon: I don't know if you could bring one from europe, |
| 19:23.30 | summatusmentis | needs to find 9 someones in the Northeast US that wants to go in on a pack of 10 w/ him |
| 19:23.50 | caratorn | I think there is a reason if there is a hardware for the US and one for the rest |
| 19:24.26 | SpeedEvil | caratorn: there is. |
| 19:25.00 | summatusmentis | caratorn: the US has 850Mhz spectrum as compared to the rest of the world which doesn't seem to |
| 19:25.40 | ewon | this doesn't fill me with hope: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/523579885/in/set-72157600292781326/ |
| 19:26.32 | summatusmentis | to be fair, my razr is hard to see in direct sunlight too |
| 19:26.57 | ewon | your razr at least has hardware buttons |
| 19:27.17 | summatusmentis | yes, it's ture |
| 19:27.20 | summatusmentis | true* |
| 19:27.23 | zash | is there any non-monochrome screen that is good in direct sunlight? |
| 19:27.35 | ewon | the n810 has a good one |
| 19:27.42 | SpeedEvil | zash: olpc |
| 19:28.52 | SpeedEvil | gta01 is almost impossible to use in direct sun |
| 19:28.58 | SpeedEvil | 02 has the same display AIUI |
| 19:29.40 | mwester | try a polarizing filter? |
| 19:29.42 | summatusmentis | hi mickeyl |
| 19:29.57 | mickeyl | heya |
| 19:30.03 | zash | SpeedEvil: olpc in color mode? |
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| 19:31.00 | SpeedEvil | mwester: the fundamental issue is that there is a couple of watts of sunlight hitting the screen. And maybe .02W of light coming out. |
| 19:31.26 | summatusmentis | do we know what OM is doing w/ the 850Mhz GTA01s? |
| 19:33.25 | wurp2 | mwester: The fundamental issue with using a polarizing filter is that sunlight is unpolarized |
| 19:34.08 | mwester | Well, then, somebody should fix the sun. |
| 19:34.15 | wurp2 | agreed |
| 19:34.28 | ccfly | I've got some aluminium foil inthe kitchen |
| 19:34.34 | mwester | Where are the design specs, anyway? |
| 19:34.35 | zash | ccfly: sounds like a plan! |
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| 19:55.34 | luceat | Any swedes |
| 19:55.36 | luceat | oops |
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| 19:55.50 | luceat | any swedes here located in stockholm intrested in group buying? |
| 19:56.14 | zash | s/stockholm/umeå |
| 19:57.57 | luceat | nice, ill try and fix the wikipage then |
| 19:58.29 | zash | what? |
| 19:59.26 | luceat | thought you meant you wanted to group order :P sorry if i misunderstood |
| 20:00.06 | zash | i do, but i live far away from sthlm |
| 20:01.10 | ScaredyCat | abraxa_: om wont ell direct to EU people? |
| 20:01.20 | ScaredyCat | s/ell/sell/ |
| 20:01.54 | luceat | ah, okay, nvm then, ill set a sthlm group up, if you cant get a group in umea i can resend it for you in worst case |
| 20:02.08 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: I would assume that you can still order to Europe directly, though that won't necessarily be cheaper |
| 20:02.31 | ScaredyCat | I appreciate that... but om haven;t actually told us who the official dists are. |
| 20:02.53 | ScaredyCat | (well they might have in here, but I've not been in for 4 days) |
| 20:02.54 | *** part/#openmoko fafaynk (n=fafaynk@88.230.203.25) |
| 20:04.16 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: Nope, haven't, and steve is slow with doing so |
| 20:04.45 | ScaredyCat | you can understand the reluctance to preorder then..? |
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| 20:06.18 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: lol, of course |
| 20:07.50 | ScaredyCat | I don;t want to cast any nasturtiums ;) |
| 20:08.07 | ScaredyCat | but the https url isn't the same as the site... |
| 20:08.36 | ScaredyCat | isn't rule #1 of buying online : 'check the url' |
| 20:12.15 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@ppp-71-139-48-90.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 20:13.46 | *** join/#openmoko Selveste1 (n=Selveste@85.235.243.199) |
| 20:15.04 | wurp2 | ScaredyCat: Nasturtiums seem like an odd thing to cast. |
| 20:15.28 | wurp2 | At least, based on what Wikipedia says nasturtiums are |
| 20:15.32 | mwester | Must be spring. I hear it does things like that to some people. |
| 20:15.33 | wurp2 | Since I had no clue |
| 20:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@ppp-71-139-48-90.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 20:17.03 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=Administ@pD9539F87.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:18.55 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: it depends what pot they are in. If it's a clay pot, they could be quite letha. |
| 20:24.18 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: Really? I don't see any notes about that on the intarweb |
| 20:24.40 | *** join/#openmoko p3t3r__ (n=p3t3r__@gate1.net-you.de) |
| 20:25.37 | mwester | I recall an incident regarding gravity and a pot of petunias. As I recall, it ended badly for the petunias. (or was it the whale?) |
| 20:26.00 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: just saw your posting on the community ML. My posting might interest you. I included the links to the papers about data in voice-to-voice gsm calls. |
| 20:37.49 | *** join/#openmoko OJW (n=OJW@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:39.03 | *** join/#openmoko macdonalder (n=macdonal@S0106000f6638cccc.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 20:40.44 | *** join/#openmoko Trevinho (n=Trevi@adsl-ull-68-46.49-151.net24.it) |
| 20:41.56 | bmk789 | anyone used moko-weather? |
| 20:44.39 | *** join/#openmoko uriahheep (n=alexis@bas1-montreal45-1177791649.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:45.59 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-208-092.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:48.15 | wurp2 | bmk789: I hadn't heard of it |
| 20:49.20 | SpeedEvil | Another idea for OM. |
| 20:49.22 | SpeedEvil | http://purrcast.com/ |
| 20:49.25 | SpeedEvil | streaming. |
| 20:50.03 | *** join/#openmoko bernt__ (n=bernt@dslb-084-060-097-045.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:50.51 | bmk789 | wurp2: its on the projects gforce |
| 20:53.00 | kdean06 | What in the hell is the best way to word this bug... :P |
| 20:53.00 | *** join/#openmoko quicksand (i=3f51a178@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d7695904cf4838f1) |
| 20:53.21 | kdean06 | wurp2, How do you store your contacts on your Neo? What do you enter in the phone number field? |
| 20:53.56 | wurp2 | kdean06: :-( |
| 20:53.57 | *** join/#openmoko caratorn_ (n=aratorn@tui75-3-88-168-237-15.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:54.11 | wurp2 | First number is home, next work, next cell, if I recall correctly |
| 20:54.11 | kdean06 | ? |
| 20:54.19 | kdean06 | That's not what I mean. :) |
| 20:54.21 | wurp2 | It is arbitrary |
| 20:54.23 | wurp2 | O |
| 20:54.36 | kdean06 | In the USA we've got area code, block and resident... (313) 123-3456... |
| 20:54.42 | wurp2 | I parse the libgsmd-tool output (in atcmd mode) |
| 20:54.59 | kdean06 | Do you enter 1 313 123 3456, omit the 1, omit the area code??? |
| 20:55.00 | wurp2 | OK, to make sure we're talking about the same thing... |
| 20:55.09 | wurp2 | You are talking about my sim importer thingy? |
| 20:55.19 | kdean06 | I'm asking how you put in phone numbers. :P |
| 20:55.23 | wurp2 | Oh |
| 20:55.29 | kdean06 | If you don't type them in yourself, it's moot though. |
| 20:55.32 | wurp2 | Sometimes one way, sometimes anohter |
| 20:55.34 | wurp2 | *another |
| 20:55.39 | wurp2 | :-/ |
| 20:55.45 | kdean06 | Anyone in the USA can answer this for me. :) It help me figure it out. |
| 20:55.47 | Qwell | People in the US *should* be using +1NPANXXXXXX :D |
| 20:55.52 | wurp2 | The neo seems to not understand phone #s at all, really |
| 20:56.19 | wurp2 | It puts 18725551212 as a different number than 8725551212 and also different than "8175551212" |
| 20:56.25 | kdean06 | Qwell, Why "should" they? There's no "+" sign on any USA phones, so nobody would DIAL that. :P |
| 20:56.26 | Qwell | kdean06: most people I talk to seem to use 1NPANXXXXXX |
| 20:56.36 | wurp2 | That last number is how the new importer from call history to a contact appears to work |
| 20:57.07 | Qwell | kdean06: + would let you dial numbers unmodified from outside the US |
| 20:57.18 | kdean06 | I put in the numbers as would be needed to make the call. I don't need to enter 1 to make the call, so I don't put that in my contacts. |
| 20:57.29 | wurp2 | I don't understand 1NPANXXXXXX as a format |
| 20:57.38 | kdean06 | 1(313)123-3456 |
| 20:57.41 | Qwell | NPA = areacode, NXX =prefix, XXXX = the rest |
| 20:57.51 | wurp2 | I mean, I see that it has the right # of characters, but why NXX = prefix? |
| 20:58.02 | Qwell | That's what NANP says |
| 20:58.03 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis_ (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 20:58.12 | wurp2 | Ah, let me google |
| 20:58.13 | kdean06 | If I understand, that's "shorthand" for +0013131233456, right? |
| 20:58.21 | kdean06 | Errr. |
| 20:58.31 | kdean06 | Is the + == 00? |
| 20:58.35 | Qwell | kdean06: + = int dial, 1 = country code |
| 20:58.41 | kdean06 | 1 is the country code for US/Mexico/Canada |
| 20:58.48 | Qwell | so, +15555551212 would let you dial 555-555-1212 from anywhere in the world |
| 20:58.52 | Qwell | (in theory) |
| 20:59.02 | kdean06 | Qwell, Are you in the US? |
| 20:59.04 | Qwell | yes |
| 20:59.11 | kdean06 | Do you dial +? |
| 20:59.12 | summatusmentis | where at? |
| 20:59.21 | Qwell | kdean06: I do, actually. Most people do not. |
| 20:59.21 | kdean06 | I mean, I've never seen that on a phone. |
| 20:59.30 | Qwell | kdean06: it's usually hold 0 or * to get a + |
| 20:59.35 | mwester | seems to recall that there were enough exceptions to the rule to make a sane programmer quite insane trying to come up with an algorithm that made sense for all phone numbers. |
| 20:59.50 | Qwell | mwester: all numbers worldwide, or just NANP? |
| 20:59.54 | Qwell | NANP is very well defined |
| 21:00.01 | mwester | all worldwide |
| 21:00.06 | Qwell | that'd be impossible |
| 21:00.15 | kdean06 | mwester, I suppose that's the bug I'm filing. :) I put my contact in my address book as I would call them, but it never triggers matches. :P |
| 21:00.16 | Qwell | 1 or more digits, is about the best you could possibly come up with |
| 21:00.39 | kdean06 | What's the point of matching phone numbers if you have to put them in in some "special" format. :P |
| 21:01.09 | mwester | kdean06: that's the context in which I learned this; someone was trying to match phone numbers against an address book, and it is quite difficult. |
| 21:01.26 | kdean06 | mwester, Dialer manages to do it, but Contacts can't? |
| 21:02.06 | mwester | A dialer should be able to dial anything, and the modem just does the rigth thing to get the number sent. The issue is the multiple representations for the same number. |
| 21:02.27 | mwester | So you might know "joe" by 555-1212 at home. |
| 21:02.45 | mwester | but you must dial 812-555-1212 on your cell |
| 21:02.51 | kdean06 | Qwell said it... Most people in the USa DON'T enter the country code and international trigger (since few people call overseas since the entire NAU is the same code) so for someone in the USA, there's no matching. |
| 21:02.53 | bmk789 | what do i need to install to get "make" to run in OM? |
| 21:02.57 | bmk789 | nvm |
| 21:03.01 | mwester | but that is the same as the more proper 1-812-555-1212 |
| 21:03.09 | mwester | etc. |
| 21:03.24 | mwester | to make it worse, when your phone gets a call, you don' t know what format the number will be in. |
| 21:03.34 | kdean06 | mwester, At least where I'm at, the area code is now required, even on landlines. The 1 is required ONLY when calling FROM a landline (which the Neo is not). |
| 21:03.37 | mwester | Especially if I am in Italy when joe calls me.... |
| 21:03.48 | ScaredyCat | mmmm..... |
| 21:04.06 | mwester | kdean06: there are still exchanges near Chicago where the area code is optional. |
| 21:04.34 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@ubuntu/member/emonkey) |
| 21:04.35 | Qwell | there are (non-cellular) places in the US where areacode cannot be dialed, to make a local call. |
| 21:04.39 | kdean06 | mwester, Okay, lets stick with the Neo... The "average" person (I think, perhaps I'm wrong?) saves area code in their contacts. :P |
| 21:04.51 | mwester | I think that's a reasonable requirement. |
| 21:04.56 | kdean06 | Qwell, I recall "back in the day". |
| 21:05.05 | SpeedEvil | When it was all fields? |
| 21:05.16 | Qwell | that still happens here. we have to setup matching on certain prefixes in our PBX...it sucks |
| 21:05.20 | wurp2 | kdean06: The +1 in his format is to identify it as a US # (as opposed to some other country) |
| 21:05.26 | kdean06 | SpeedEvil, No, back when you didn't need an area code. |
| 21:05.30 | mwester | So can you optimize away the entire country code and prefix, and just match on the last 10 digits? What is the probability of a false match then? |
| 21:06.12 | ScaredyCat | well, what are the chances of 2 people from 2 countries who have the same number calling you |
| 21:06.30 | ScaredyCat | pretty low I'd suspect |
| 21:06.41 | kdean06 | mwester, Matching on the last 10 digits, for me, would trigger 100% match rate with 0 false positive... Though, I can think of some VERY rare (77# for instance) cases where it wouldn't. |
| 21:06.48 | SpeedEvil | drops the birthday paradox on ScaredyCat. |
| 21:06.50 | mwester | :) And what risk might one be willing to take that such a collision would occur? |
| 21:07.01 | *** join/#openmoko infernixx (i=gerben@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 21:07.12 | ScaredyCat | yes I get that SpeedEvil, but the numbers are vastly different |
| 21:07.28 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: I'm pretty sure even w/ birthday paradox, two matching 10 digit #s from even a pool of a few 100 is essentially never gonna happen |
| 21:07.29 | ScaredyCat | 365 vs 9999999999 |
| 21:07.29 | mwester | considers SpeedEvil's concern, and concedes the point. |
| 21:07.33 | kdean06 | If it can't reliably be matched, wouldn't it make sense to simply not waste CPU cycles trying then? |
| 21:07.34 | SpeedEvil | For a 10^10 numberspace, you need a 10^5 phonebook before 50% hits |
| 21:08.09 | SpeedEvil | So with say a few hundred in the phonebook, with lots of phones out there, someone will have a clash. |
| 21:08.15 | mwester | Assuming the numbers are radomly distributed. Are they? |
| 21:08.15 | SpeedEvil | it's going to be rare though |
| 21:08.21 | SpeedEvil | probably not. |
| 21:08.46 | kdean06 | No, they're allotted by geography, so they're not random, or even close. |
| 21:08.49 | Qwell | many countries aren't going to have 10 digits |
| 21:08.53 | mwester | They aren't in the US -- so it might be even an order of magnitude more likely to collide. |
| 21:09.04 | wurp2 | Very rare, except for #s that people elected to have for their 'specialness' |
| 21:09.19 | ScaredyCat | 1-800-pimps-r-us ? |
| 21:09.19 | kdean06 | mwester, 10 digit match in the US can't collide. Numbers in the US are 10 digit. :P |
| 21:09.25 | wurp2 | ScaredyCat: zackly |
| 21:09.57 | mwester | Yes, but one assumes that is likely with other countries as well. |
| 21:10.51 | kdean06 | mwester, I don't call other countries, so I can't speculate there. I'd agree that given the number of nations, number of lines and number of people, matching to 10 digits only will create a collision. |
| 21:11.18 | ScaredyCat | well, only if that country uses 10 digits |
| 21:11.20 | ScaredyCat | or more |
| 21:12.29 | ScaredyCat | european numbers are different... most people thing that a dialing code starts with a 0 eg 0121.. |
| 21:12.41 | mwester | creates the independent nation of "mwesterland", and decrees all phone numbers to be 22 digits long. |
| 21:12.53 | ScaredyCat | the 0 just indicates national dialing rather that 00 which indicates international |
| 21:13.14 | ScaredyCat | why not an md5sum mwester? ;) |
| 21:13.20 | mwester | oooh! |
| 21:13.57 | ScaredyCat | throws pennies at mwester |
| 21:14.20 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 21:14.26 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, Does Openmoko-contacts match phone numbers as you would dial them? |
| 21:14.36 | bmk789 | what package has the pkg-config binary? |
| 21:14.37 | ScaredyCat | it does both |
| 21:15.18 | ScaredyCat | ie if I dial 0031<rest of my home number> or without 0031 i get the same filtered list |
| 21:15.48 | ScaredyCat | 0031 1234567890 == 01234567890 |
| 21:16.01 | kdean06 | If you used a friend's mobile to dial a number you had comitted to memory and then did that SAME pattern on your Neo, would it trigger the match? |
| 21:16.30 | ScaredyCat | well, not if they were different phones.... |
| 21:16.34 | kdean06 | lol |
| 21:16.39 | kdean06 | I'm wording this poorly. |
| 21:17.04 | *** join/#openmoko mac6cast (n=macbroad@marxbook.stattfernsehen.com) |
| 21:17.40 | ScaredyCat | you want me to compare how the neo behaves to a 'normal' mobile ? |
| 21:17.43 | *** join/#openmoko _fulgas (n=fn@a83-132-24-119.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 21:17.48 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, I'm not asking you to compare... |
| 21:17.54 | kdean06 | I'm wording my question poorly. |
| 21:18.03 | *** join/#openmoko vininim_ (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim) |
| 21:18.49 | ScaredyCat | you keep saying that... but you're not reording it :) |
| 21:18.55 | ScaredyCat | rewording |
| 21:18.58 | dwmw2_gone | why would you dial 0031... on a GSM phone? Isn't that what the + is for? |
| 21:19.19 | ScaredyCat | it's quicker |
| 21:19.25 | bmk789 | what package has the pkg-config binary? |
| 21:19.26 | Qwell | only if 0031 is the number you have to dial to get out of the country |
| 21:19.29 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, If you entered phone numbers into Openmoko-contacts2 as you normally dial them does it match in Openmoko-contacts if you get an SMS from that contact? |
| 21:19.55 | ScaredyCat | dunno, I always put intl dialing codes for numbers... |
| 21:20.09 | ScaredyCat | I can try, but I'm currently roaming |
| 21:20.27 | kdean06 | gives up and just writes a novel to explain the damn bug. |
| 21:20.47 | ScaredyCat | I came in late, what was the problem, matching too early? |
| 21:20.55 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, I'm not asking what MIGHT happen. If you NORMALLY enter the international code (and others would do the same, being the "norm") then the answer is "Yes". |
| 21:20.56 | bmk789 | kdean06: how about a screencast to show us? |
| 21:21.32 | ScaredyCat | well, here's the thing... |
| 21:21.56 | ScaredyCat | if I'm adding a contact I'd use international format... |
| 21:22.10 | ScaredyCat | if I'me just calling I'd do local format |
| 21:22.10 | kdean06 | To make a call on the Neo I need to enter 10 digits. This is how I expect to make calls, and the vast majority in the US would agree. Entering those 10 digits into Openmoko-contacts does NOT trigger matches. |
| 21:22.30 | ScaredyCat | ok, but it would in the dialer... |
| 21:22.49 | kdean06 | Very few people in the US know how to dial internationally, and fewer still do it regularly enough to put them in their contacts list in that manner. |
| 21:22.51 | ScaredyCat | so the behaviour should be consistant |
| 21:23.22 | ScaredyCat | Us phones have a 'here be dragons' button don't they? |
| 21:23.27 | kdean06 | ? |
| 21:23.37 | kdean06 | 0-9 # and *. |
| 21:23.42 | kdean06 | One of those "here be dragons" ? |
| 21:23.43 | kdean06 | :P |
| 21:23.53 | Qwell | holding 0 = here be dragons :p |
| 21:23.55 | Qwell | at least on my phone |
| 21:23.57 | kdean06 | Operator. |
| 21:24.08 | Qwell | holding 0 = + |
| 21:24.11 | mwester | bmk789: pkg-config is in the pkgconfig package for other OE feeds; I expect it would be the same on OM |
| 21:24.13 | ScaredyCat | points at the map.... USA-water-here be dragons |
| 21:24.18 | kdean06 | Qwell, Nobody in the US does that. |
| 21:24.22 | Qwell | I do |
| 21:24.27 | kdean06 | For EVERY call? |
| 21:24.45 | Qwell | for things I add to contacts |
| 21:24.49 | kdean06 | Somehow, I don't beleive that. Even if I did, I'd think you're a RARE exception. |
| 21:24.54 | ScaredyCat | slaps kdean06 |
| 21:25.11 | bmk789 | thanks mwester |
| 21:25.24 | ScaredyCat | you only put in the international stuff for contacts...because you might be somewhere else when you dial... |
| 21:25.31 | kdean06 | For someone who calls internationally, I'd get the "Input it in international format". For someone (like me) who NEVER calls internationally, I expect my contacts to match the pattern that I would normally dial. |
| 21:25.32 | Qwell | ^ what he said |
| 21:25.58 | ScaredyCat | if you're dialing a number that'sin the same country you just use local dialing... ie without 00 + <coutry code> |
| 21:26.02 | ScaredyCat | country |
| 21:26.04 | mwester | goes to check, and notices with some surprise that his Treo *does* generate a + when 0 is held. |
| 21:26.22 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, For the vast majority of people in the US, mexico and Canada, 100% of calls are "local". |
| 21:26.42 | kdean06 | So nobody would enter those contacts in international format. |
| 21:26.52 | ScaredyCat | so it wont matter to them then |
| 21:27.05 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, It matters to me! My contacts don't trigger a match! |
| 21:27.05 | ScaredyCat | you can put the numbers in however you want. |
| 21:27.18 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, Not if I want them to match. |
| 21:27.27 | ScaredyCat | if you travel you put them in international format otherwise you have to manually dial all the time |
| 21:27.40 | ScaredyCat | and you'll go insane |
| 21:28.10 | ScaredyCat | your 10 digit contacts cdon;t match in the dialer && contacts? |
| 21:28.15 | ScaredyCat | or just contacts? |
| 21:28.50 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, That's the difference. People in the US don't travel out of the 1 country code frequently enough to warrant formatting their contacts in international format. Therefore, entering numbers in contacts as would "normally" be dialed by someone in the US fails to match. |
| 21:29.00 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, No. They don't. |
| 21:29.28 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, My wife sends me SMS all the time. She's in my contacts as I'd dial her number but the SMS shows from "Unknown" all the time. |
| 21:30.01 | ScaredyCat | ok, that's why I aid... |
| 21:30.02 | ScaredyCat | said |
| 21:30.05 | ScaredyCat | [2008-04-14 22:20:54] <ScaredyCat> so the behaviour should be consistant |
| 21:30.29 | ScaredyCat | if it works properly for the dialer then contacts should be fixed to do the same |
| 21:30.32 | ScaredyCat | imho |
| 21:30.51 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, I didn't understand that you were making that point earlier. |
| 21:30.59 | kdean06 | So yes. |
| 21:31.10 | wurp2 | It should be consistently correct ;-) |
| 21:31.12 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, Now for the fun part... How the hell do I word that in a bug? |
| 21:31.16 | ScaredyCat | the dialer works for both 'styles' of dialing... |
| 21:31.18 | *** join/#openmoko vininim_ (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim) |
| 21:31.49 | wurp2 | How about "when I get an SMS from a number listed in my contacts, it shows up in the list for the 'unknown' sender"? |
| 21:32.17 | wurp2 | It happens to me even though for my wife I have her cell # entered both with & without the leading 1 |
| 21:32.29 | wurp2 | I haven't tried listing her # with a leading +1 |
| 21:33.01 | kdean06 | wurp2, That matches. But being an American, adding international dialing prefixes scares the bejezzus out of me. ;P |
| 21:33.10 | Sonicadvance | :D |
| 21:33.25 | mwester | Us americans like to remain convinced that the earth ends at the border. :p :D |
| 21:33.30 | wurp2 | You don't want to pay to dial out of the country & back in when you call your wife 3 x per day? |
| 21:33.46 | kdean06 | Iv'e been billed for international dialing before... At least back in 2000, ANY call placed with international codes was billed as international, even if it wasn't. |
| 21:33.58 | roh | bwahahaha |
| 21:33.59 | Qwell | kdean06: from a cell phone? |
| 21:34.03 | kdean06 | Qwell, Yes |
| 21:34.03 | roh | sorry.. |
| 21:34.09 | wurp2 | mwester: The southern border. The northern border is just a more annoying state border with a big state "Canadia" on the other side |
| 21:34.14 | Sonicadvance | Question, is dialing the Area code required on the Neo, or is it provider dependent :D |
| 21:34.17 | Qwell | with +, or int code? |
| 21:34.20 | Sonicadvance | ?* |
| 21:34.27 | ScaredyCat | kdean06: that's fraud |
| 21:34.34 | kdean06 | Qwell, There's no + as far as I'm concerned. You can't dial it if it's not on the keypad. |
| 21:34.36 | Qwell | + will be an empty string if you're calling to the same country |
| 21:34.52 | Qwell | it's on my keypad |
| 21:35.14 | roh | Qwell you prepend that the carrier correctly configured its systems |
| 21:35.15 | Qwell | 0, +, and an up arrow (why?) are listed on the 0 key |
| 21:35.21 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, So is wiretapping, torture and theft... Something being fraud, or illegal only means that there's something on paper saying they can't. It happens. |
| 21:36.02 | ScaredyCat | well, all those things are legal in the USA... |
| 21:36.06 | ScaredyCat | at the moment at least |
| 21:36.19 | kdean06 | Qwell, Not on any phone I've ever seen. |
| 21:36.40 | wurp2 | ScaredyCat: "not prosecuted" != legal, at least as far as I'm concerned |
| 21:37.00 | ScaredyCat | wurp2: yes, but the US Govt doesn;t see it like that.. |
| 21:37.06 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, Wiretapping is illegal in the US, so says the US Constitution. But that "law" is no more binding on anyone as is the law against fraud, so all law = irrelevant to what actually happens. |
| 21:37.14 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@78-86-213-209.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:37.31 | wurp2 | ScaredyCat: :-( |
| 21:37.32 | ScaredyCat | how do you match the law? First 10 chars? |
| 21:37.34 | ScaredyCat | :P |
| 21:37.35 | bmk789 | who moderates the community mailing list? |
| 21:37.48 | wurp2 | ScaredyCat: rarely do I actually lol |
| 21:38.10 | kdean06 | bmk789, FSM. He removes any inappropriate post with his noodly appendage before it hits your inbox. |
| 21:38.37 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, I ignore the law. It has not authority beyond that which I give it. I choose not to harm others, and that's all that matters to me. :) |
| 21:38.49 | bmk789 | kdean06: thanks, ill have to get a hold of him somehow |
| 21:38.51 | kdean06 | Anyway... Not the issue. :P |
| 21:39.01 | kdean06 | My contacts don't match. :( |
| 21:39.04 | kdean06 | runs off and whines |
| 21:39.27 | ScaredyCat | again |
| 21:39.39 | ScaredyCat | it's a 'bug' in contacts |
| 21:39.45 | ScaredyCat | but only for you :) |
| 21:39.51 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, For anyone. :) |
| 21:40.15 | ScaredyCat | I don;t have that problem.... |
| 21:40.28 | ScaredyCat | no one sms's me :) |
| 21:40.32 | ScaredyCat | well, except machines... |
| 21:40.36 | ScaredyCat | but they don;t count.. |
| 21:40.51 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, Ah yes.. You're bulletproof too, by that logic. :) Nobody shoots at you. :) |
| 21:41.00 | ScaredyCat | yes... |
| 21:41.07 | ScaredyCat | this is true.... |
| 21:41.53 | bmk789 | kdean06: where can i find FSM? i wasnt able to find anything on him |
| 21:42.24 | Qwell | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster |
| 21:42.34 | ScaredyCat | kdean06: it's that the basis of science... |
| 21:42.41 | ScaredyCat | you have to prove it false... |
| 21:42.55 | ScaredyCat | isn't |
| 21:43.14 | ScaredyCat | bmk789: I don;t think the community list is moderated |
| 21:43.31 | bmk789 | someone has to, it said one of my messages is going to the moderator first |
| 21:44.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1344 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net |
| 21:44.01 | ScaredyCat | right, so it'll never get to the list.. |
| 21:44.02 | cdbot2 | * * Kernel upgrade fails with GTA01 rootfs on SDHC |
| 21:44.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1344 |
| 21:44.11 | ScaredyCat | in the message you should have got a link |
| 21:44.16 | bmk789 | ya |
| 21:44.18 | kdean06 | bmk789, My apologies, I was being sarcastic. The list is unmoderated. If there's a moderator, I wouldn't know who it is. |
| 21:44.40 | ScaredyCat | click the clink, cancel the message and then resend it from the correct address |
| 21:44.50 | ScaredyCat | link |
| 21:45.14 | ScaredyCat | you get the moderator message if you use the wrong from address... |
| 21:45.54 | ScaredyCat | you need to use the one you signed up to the list with |
| 21:45.55 | bmk789 | ok, it rejected mine because it had a big attachment, o well ill take out the attachment and repost |
| 21:45.59 | bmk789 | thanks |
| 21:46.00 | ScaredyCat | oh. |
| 21:46.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1345 has been created by kevin(AT)foreverdean.info |
| 21:46.02 | cdbot2 | * * Contacts entered as would be dialed don't trigger match |
| 21:46.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1345 |
| 21:46.05 | *** join/#openmoko infernixxx (n=nix@91.141.131.193) |
| 21:46.32 | ScaredyCat | you should probably upload the attachment somehwere and provide a url in the message |
| 21:46.51 | ScaredyCat | sending big attachments to a list is a good way to piss people off.. |
| 21:47.09 | ScaredyCat | particularly as you're assuming everyone is using broadband all the time |
| 21:47.38 | ScaredyCat | gets confused by but 1345 |
| 21:47.42 | ScaredyCat | bug |
| 21:48.29 | ScaredyCat | !ombug 1337 |
| 21:48.31 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 1337, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 21:48.32 | cdbot2 | * * reddog(AT)mastersword.de: Keyboard is unusable |
| 21:48.33 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1337 |
| 21:49.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1346 has been created by cwixon(AT)usa.net |
| 21:49.01 | cdbot2 | * * GTA01 default has MMC debug logging |
| 21:49.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1346 |
| 21:49.41 | bmk789 | eh, it was only 140k |
| 21:50.41 | ScaredyCat | so when you said big, you meant, smallish |
| 21:51.04 | ScaredyCat | decides not to ask the obvious question |
| 21:53.49 | quicksand | ScaredyCat: admirable discretion |
| 21:54.08 | bmk789 | o well, its posted |
| 21:56.33 | ScaredyCat | stabs script kiddies... |
| 21:56.40 | ScaredyCat | they're bloody useless |
| 21:57.01 | ScaredyCat | can't even run the right script agains the right software. |
| 21:57.23 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, Are you serious? ;P |
| 21:58.12 | ScaredyCat | my logs are nice and uniform... then they come along and mess them up with long useless urls |
| 22:00.48 | *** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) |
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| 22:03.18 | ccfly | bye people |
| 22:03.19 | *** part/#openmoko ccfly (n=ccfly@89.212.76.77) |
| 22:04.45 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@h-2-44.A146.cust.bahnhof.se) |
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| 22:07.20 | *** join/#openmoko Cthobs (n=cerebus@fl-76-2-102-239.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
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| 22:09.05 | Cthobs | Anyone know why Ubuntu insists on shutting off wireless when the Neo is plugged in? |
| 22:10.03 | wurp2 | Cthobs: Is it possible your ifup script for usb somehow screws up your wireless interface? |
| 22:10.24 | bmk789 | Cthobs: hardy? |
| 22:10.26 | mickeyl | Cthobs: gnome-networkmanager sucks a bit |
| 22:10.44 | mickeyl | Cthobs: try to add an entry in /etc/network/interfaces for usb0 and then it should leave it alone |
| 22:10.46 | Cthobs | Possible. I don't have a lot of experience with it. Mandriva never did it, but then Mandriva doesn't have the package support needed to support the makfile. |
| 22:10.58 | Cthobs | mickeyl: thanks, will try it |
| 22:11.04 | mickeyl | using mandriva here |
| 22:11.09 | mickeyl | no momomakefile though |
| 22:11.12 | mickeyl | pure OE |
| 22:11.15 | wurp2 | Is there software out there to make the neo behave like a usb drive when plugged in? |
| 22:11.52 | Cthobs | It was getting painful getting git installed. The cooker package had conflicted versions with the support packages. Became a nightmare grabbing everything. Gave up. |
| 22:12.27 | mickeyl | really? d'oh. never had any of these problems |
| 22:12.37 | mickeyl | i just bitbake git-native |
| 22:12.57 | bmk789 | wurp2: i know there is either a way built in or an application you can addon to do it but i cant remember |
| 22:13.00 | zween | Cthobs: I am using hardy here and my wireless stays on. Never had a problem like this. So it should work. |
| 22:13.15 | mwester | I think the dependencies in OM are such that it builds and uses git-native --- it certainly does for me. |
| 22:13.41 | Cthobs | zween: 7.10. Will try mickey's suggestion. |
| 22:14.07 | wurp2 | bmk789: ok, thanks |
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| 22:23.24 | thos | ScaredyCat, moo |
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| 23:10.17 | bmk789 | how do i set opkg to not check for .sig files? |
| 23:24.32 | webjames | is it me of is https://www.openmoko.com/ offline? |
| 23:24.50 | Qwell | webjames: just you |
| 23:25.10 | bmk789 | ya |
| 23:25.19 | Qwell | (it works here..) |
| 23:25.19 | webjames | hmm |
| 23:25.46 | webjames | weird.. works now |
| 23:25.50 | webjames | thanks |
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| 23:28.13 | webjames | what's going on with the stylus? |
| 23:29.06 | bmk789 | how do i set opkg to not check for .sig files? |
| 23:29.36 | quicksand | bmk789: I don't know -- but it shouldn't matter. It complains but still works. |
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| 23:34.47 | bmk789 | ya it still works except for the neo1973 repo which im guessing is down |
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| 23:35.36 | bmk789 | just need to figure out how to make my / image bigger |
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| 23:39.44 | stefan_schmidt | robtaylor: ping |
| 23:39.54 | thos | hey stefan_schmidt |
| 23:40.00 | stefan_schmidt | hey thos |
| 23:40.17 | stefan_schmidt | thos: Good to meet you |
| 23:40.23 | thos | your welcome! |
| 23:40.37 | stefan_schmidt | thos: Can you join #openmoko-gsoc ? |
| 23:40.41 | thos | oh, sure thing |
| 23:42.10 | *** join/#openmoko fulgas159 (n=fn@a83-132-24-119.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 23:42.24 | thos | oh right |
| 23:42.34 | *** join/#openmoko elation_station (i=elation@gateway/tor/x-1618ba1dec58f13b) |
| 23:42.39 | thos | stefan_schmidt, basically i'm worried about input method proposal since no feedback from student |
| 23:42.53 | thos | stefan_schmidt, but openmoko-mail also looks good, so I would happily mentor that |
| 23:43.19 | stefan_schmidt | thos: wrong channel :) |
| 23:43.24 | thos | waa |
| 23:43.39 | thos | damnit, I now have three openmoko channels :-) |
| 23:46.55 | bmk789 | how do i expand my root image? |
| 23:49.03 | *** join/#openmoko astro76 (n=jtaji@unaffiliated/astro76) |
| 23:50.44 | thos | bmk789, expand? |
| 23:50.51 | thos | oh, you mean for qemu |
| 23:50.52 | thos | dunno |
| 23:52.57 | bmk789 | ya, i keep running out of space |
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