IRC log for #openmoko on 20080411

00:11.28t_s_ohmm, freerunner porn :D http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2008/04/10/openmoko-freerunner-leds-etc/ <- as if i didnt allready want one, badly!
00:13.25rtmt_s_o: It's not nice to torment your fellow nerds with something like that.
00:13.44t_s_osorry, i just had to share the pain...
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00:14.52rtmThe all-black looks conk.oler than either of the neo1973 case color schemes, I thi
00:14.56rtmnk
00:15.22rtmI meant to say "looks cooler".
00:15.30t_s_oindeed. i got to say that im looking forward to being able to pull that out of the pocket ;)
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00:17.39t_s_oalso, i kinda like that new theme. no more gradient overload.
00:18.04wurp2|awayt_s_o: The screenshots on thos's page aren't just a new theme, I don't think
00:18.14t_s_ooh?
00:18.15wurp2|awayThat looks like the underground image
00:18.34wurp2|awayIt's a (almost) totally different python-based stack
00:18.40t_s_ook
00:18.59wurp2|awayI installed it on my 01 for a bit, but at the time it didn't support much of anything
00:19.06wurp2|awayThe code looks really clean & easy to mod, though
00:19.23wurp2|awayI agree, though - I like the look better
00:19.58wurp2|awayaway again; dinnertime :-)
00:20.19rtmI'm surprised they don't clean up the little icons in the upper right of the display (signal strength, battery charging etc).   They look like they've been scaled from smaller size.  It's a shame to have something rather blurry displayed constantly.
00:22.30t_s_ohmm, its probably been asked a 1000 times, but will the freerunner come in a hackers dream box version?
00:23.31rtmIf so, I hope they add LEDs to that too!
00:23.53t_s_o:P
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00:25.07summatusmentisfreerunner is retailing for < $400 right?
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00:50.13zashhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner#What_is_the_price.3F
00:51.54zashi think 400 € was mentioned somewhere as an estimate
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00:55.27wurp2|awayI think just about = $400 is the target.  The 400 eu figure that I saw was including some hefty VAT, shipping, & other taxes
00:57.27rtmDoes anyone know of a way to turn off the neo
00:57.50rtm(oops)
00:58.13rtmDoes anyone know of a way to turn off the neos backlight in a way that will allow a touch of the screen to turn it back on?
00:58.48rtmecho 1 > /sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl/bl_power turns it off.
00:59.28rtmBut it won't come back on if I touch the screen.   I want to be able to turn off the screen as if the idle timer had expired.
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02:15.17wurp2|awayrtm: I don't :-(
02:15.41wurp2|awayI would think Neod does it, but I dunno how to invoke it on purpose
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06:36.09CMHmm.. Forwarding voicemails: http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/960-forwarding-voicemails
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07:02.56CIA-41freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r179 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (8 files in 4 dirs):
07:02.56CIA-41freesmartphone.org: Add more information to README
07:02.56CIA-41freesmartphone.org: Added dbus configuration example
07:02.56CIA-41freesmartphone.org: Cleaned dbus_thread.py starting and stopping
07:02.56CIA-41freesmartphone.org: Added new sms test: test_SendMessageFail
07:02.57CIA-41freesmartphone.org: Moved back to using system bus
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07:25.26Hopscotchgood morning
07:26.25CM:)
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07:59.26SpeedEvilUnderneath the "50%" blue flag. http://three.co.uk/personal/index.omp The question is - which half.
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08:29.53CMHmm.. Now linux-openmoko_2.6.24+git.bb fails
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08:43.05thoswurp2|away, not a new stack, that's a standard openmoko image
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08:47.10CIA-41freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r180 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (14 files in 2 dirs):
08:47.10CIA-41freesmartphone.org: Small fixes to tests
08:47.10CIA-41freesmartphone.org: Implemented rest of phonebook methods.
08:47.10CIA-41freesmartphone.org: Made error reporting unified.
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09:14.08CVirusI wonder why isn't OM built in C++ ?
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09:14.33CMC++ is evil ;)
09:14.49CVirusat least it supports OOP
09:15.01GottoxCVirus: Glib too.
09:16.01Bubbiwhat is it built on then?
09:16.06CVirusI mean OOP native support in the language
09:16.11GottoxBubbi: C
09:16.16Bubbiah.. :)
09:16.26zashGlib = pseudo-oop for C?
09:17.22CVirusGLib provides the core application building blocks for libraries and applications written in C. It provides the core object system used in GNOME, the main loop implementation, and a large set of utility functions for strings and common data structures.
09:18.06CVirusis Glib better than C++ ?
09:18.24CMGuess that depends on who you ask
09:18.36Gottox<flame>no, it's both OOP, it can't be good anyway :)</flame>
09:18.43CVirushehe
09:18.49zashEVERYTHING SUCKS!
09:18.57zashwhat sucks less?
09:19.00Gottoxyea! except me!
09:19.05Gottoxzash: suckless.org!
09:19.10zash:D
09:19.34zashsomeone port wmii to om!
09:19.45CVirusWhich sucks less ... C++ or Glib ?
09:19.49CVirusand in what way ?
09:21.01Sup3rkiddoGLIB pwns
09:21.16Sup3rkiddoespecially strings and lists thingies it offers
09:21.30Gottoxglib sucks more imho, because bringing OOP to a non-OOP language brings big downsides.
09:21.33zashPHP!
09:21.39Gottoxslaps zash
09:21.50Sup3rkiddo~trout zash
09:21.51aptACTION slaps zash around a bit with a large trout!
09:22.08zashindeed
09:24.30GottoxI believe everything sucks except these things which prove the opposite.
09:25.05CMlinux-openmoko_2.6.24+git.bb surely sucks: http://pastie.caboo.se/179066
09:25.11Gottoxbut PHP sucks in nearly every way.
09:25.13CMAnyone gotten it to build today?
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09:34.14Sup3rkiddoCM, me me
09:34.22Sup3rkiddoCM, make update did the trick
09:34.33CMSup3rkiddo: Odd, I did a make update this morning
09:34.35CMI'll try again
09:37.24CMStill borked
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10:02.58CIA-41freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r181 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (7 files in 4 dirs):
10:02.58CIA-41freesmartphone.org: Fixes to ui.py
10:02.58CIA-41freesmartphone.org: Split at init to two parts: one at start and one after sim is ready
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10:31.23reSpawnHello
10:31.56reSpawnany updates on battery life? is it improved for the Freerunner?
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10:40.20SpeedEvilThe battery life for GTA01 is software dependant - and the software hasn't been written (largely)
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11:09.14thosbehold...  http://folks.o-hand.com/thomas/opkg.png
11:09.34thosmickeyl, check out my picture of opkg :-)
11:10.02mickeylhell
11:10.05mickeylthat's pretty convoluted
11:10.33thosmickeyl, and it's my job to try and untangle it right now ;-)
11:11.03CMHehe.. Ouch..
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11:20.06SpeedEvilhttp://www.mauve.plus.com/beer.jpg and
11:20.07SpeedEviloops
11:21.52SpeedEvilthomasg: I was about to say it diddn't load for me, then I noticed it was somewhat zoomed out.
11:21.55SpeedEvilthos:
11:23.17thosheh
11:24.50abraxa_SpeedEvil: Nice shot..
11:25.24SpeedEvilIt wasn't mine - it was intended as a demonstration of - along with http://www.mauve.plus.com/beerp.jpg as the differentces between baseline and progressive jpegs.
11:25.39SpeedEvilIt was the only suitable large jpeg I had on hand.
11:26.01abraxa_So the guy wasn't you then, yes?
11:26.39SpeedEvilyes, not me.
11:27.05CMShame about the beer.. ;)
11:27.20abraxa_Yeah, I wouldn't have thought you'd do something braindead like that, lol
11:27.39CMHehe
11:27.40abraxa_Man, that woman must've been mad
11:28.31CIA-41openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4344 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-wifi/data/Wifi.png: openmoko-panel-wifi: update a new wifi icon (Erin Yueh)
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11:45.23CIA-41openmoko: 03thomas * r4345 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/ (opkg.h opkg_defines.h opkg_error.h opkg_state.h): opkg: split out opkg.h
11:46.34thosmickeyl, although, could you imagine what qt or enlightenment or some other toolkit would look like? ;-)
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11:47.05mickey|brkfastthos: yes.... scary
11:47.09mickey|brkfasteven more so :)
11:47.12mickey|brkfastbbiab
11:48.16CMthos: I wonder how openmoko in oe would look like if you make a dependancy graph of the bb files
11:48.32thosCM, you can do that already with bitbake
11:48.38thosCM, bitbake -g openmoko-devel-image
11:48.40thosiirc
11:48.41zashTERRORDOOM
11:48.44CMOh? Cool
11:48.48CMDidn't know
11:50.17CMOk, 23106 lines or so..
11:55.54edistar_mathhas anyone who has a gta02 successfully used wifi yet?
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11:56.01SpeedEvilyes
11:56.14SpeedEvilAIUI it just works.
11:56.15edistar_mathis the driver fully working then? :)
11:56.26SpeedEvilActually - I'm unsure if it was wifi or usb
11:56.34edistar_mathok
11:56.35CViruszomg .. can i toucht plz plz ..  can i see it plz plz
11:56.38CVirus:-p
11:56.43edistar_math:P
11:56.53SpeedEvilhas none - the closest I've been is ssh.
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12:00.53abraxa_edistar_math: There are some issues with WiFi still (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1250) but they should be solvable in software (i.e. the driver)
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12:01.17abraxa_edistar: There are some issues with WiFi still (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1250) but they should be solvable in software (i.e. the driver)
12:01.30edistarok, thx
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14:15.43ruskiehmm tangogps is nice... just needs a way to fetch maps into permanent storage...
14:18.24wurp2|awaythos: Oh, underground looked to me like just the kernel + basic driver & module stuff
14:18.26SpeedEvilAnd we need an xkcd GPS.
14:19.12wurp2|awayI thought it had a different window manager, interface for gsm (new dbus from fsp.org), etc.
14:19.15SpeedEvilhttp://xkcd.com/407/
14:20.43zashloop forever { if distance-to $destination from $cur_pos < $last_pos { say "hotter" }; sleep 7 }
14:20.52zashor someting
14:21.34thoswurp2, maybe
14:21.41thoswurp2, but what I was using was not underground
14:22.04thosIf I post some ipk's will more people test my theme?
14:22.06wurp2thos: Oh, I see
14:22.25wurp2It looked more like ug to me than om
14:22.39thoswurp2, I guess that's my theme? ;-)
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14:23.15wurp2Was it just a theme?  It looked like a theme + some apps interacting with the app list in ways I've not seen before
14:23.25wurp2Displaying dynamic info in the app list
14:23.43thoshmm
14:23.48thoswurp2, which screenshot are you talking about?
14:23.53wurp2e.g. some orientation info on the accelerometer, or maybe it was your theme displaying an app I've never seen before
14:24.07wurp2Let me try to hunt it down.  I've slept since then, and I'm on a different machine
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14:24.40thoswurp2, that was my gta02.py
14:24.44dcordesthos: I will test qvga if somebody will fix it ;p
14:25.05thoshmm
14:25.14thosdcordes, at least the matchbox theme will not be broken ;-)
14:25.29dcordesthos: what you mean? you fixed it?
14:25.59thosdcordes, i mean, my mathcbox theme isn't broken in the first place :-P
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14:35.12dcordesthos: did you build some image with qvga?
14:35.18CIA-41openmoko: 03thomas * r4346 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/ (12 files): libopkg: remove internal dependency on libopkg.h and opkg_cmd.h
14:35.39thosdcordes, a qvga theme with my theme should be really easy
14:35.46thosdcordes, my theme is *much* smaller
14:36.01dcordesthos: can you provide me with an ipk?
14:36.04thosdcordes, you should try it out and see what needs adjusting
14:36.05thosoh
14:36.10thosdo you not have a build? :-)
14:36.11dcordesI noticed your theme in the planet
14:36.23dcordesthos: I'm talking about a qvga one
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14:38.04thosdcordes, i'm confused
14:38.16thosdcordes, i'm suggesting you try my theme on QVGA
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14:38.40dcordesoh I see and just check whether it works in a way?
14:38.47thosdcordes, yeah
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14:42.57dcordesthos: is there a way to automate the packaging of your theme rather than the normal one into one's images?
14:43.20thosdcordes, you mean, make it the default theme?
14:43.36dcordesyes
14:43.48thosdcordes, you have to ask people in charge I guess :-)
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14:55.20CIA-41openmoko: 03werner * r4347 10/developers/werner/bb_slack.pl:
14:55.20CIA-41openmoko: Quick and dirty script to calculate how many "slack" blocks we'd need per
14:55.20CIA-41openmoko: NAND partition for a certain probability that these blocks will indeed be
14:55.20CIA-41openmoko: sufficient to accommodate the bad blocks that may fall into this area.
14:55.20CIA-41openmoko: Assumes that bad blocks are evenly distributed and don't come in clumps.
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15:02.06wurp2thos: Yeah, it was gta02.py
15:02.11wurp2Sorry, had to go to a meeting
15:03.14wurp2The .py and the ug-ish look had me fooled :-)
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15:32.15wurp2Is everyone taking Friday off? ;-)
15:32.46zedstar__yaaaay friday!!!
15:33.41wurp2boo Friday
15:33.50wurp2Still no damn news from Google re: my employment there
15:34.13CViruswurp2: how did you do in the interview ?
15:34.14wurp2I was supposed to find out *last* Friday the next step after my one HR & two tech phone interviews
15:34.29wurp2I answered all of the questions...
15:34.36zedstar__wurp2 ah so next stage is the 4 hour grilling?
15:34.40CViruswurp2: how did they get to you ?
15:34.43CVirushehe
15:35.17wurp2On the 2nd interview, one question I answered with a solution that only works for the 1st 676 cases (I recognized that in the interview)
15:35.36wurp2and the last Q the answer I gave was not the most efficient, but still quite efficient
15:36.10wurp2They contacted me; they had read my resume
15:36.14wurp2gotta go, work mtg
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15:55.25shazkhanhi
15:55.34edistarho
15:55.39sertachi
15:55.50shazkhanGot a problem with bitbake and build
15:55.51BabelOho
15:56.06*** join/#openmoko nibbo (i=nibbo@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-763ce6bf24a9b6a5)
15:56.41sertacopenmoko site shop section has problem ?
15:57.10shazkhanbitbake $OMDIR/build openmoko-devel-image
15:57.23shazkhanthis gives loads of errors
15:57.59shazkhancheck this out : http://pastebin.com/m24cbd767
15:57.59nezza-_-sertac: ?
15:58.36sertacnezza-_-, its giving me parsing error
15:58.53shazkhanI cant figure out what to do
16:00.01nezza-_-https://direct.openmoko.com/ <- no problems with shop
16:01.31abraxa_shazkhan: make update-bitbake
16:01.51abraxa_(if you're using MokoMakefile)
16:02.05shazkhanno I am going manually
16:02.27*** join/#openmoko Tob1 (n=tobi@pD9E867C9.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:02.42shazkhanI have followed the wiki moko from scratch
16:03.01abraxa_How did you obtain bitbake?
16:03.02*** part/#openmoko sertac (n=sertac@88.235.60.184)
16:05.33thosabraxa_, ?!!
16:08.25abraxa_thos? I'm just asking him how he obtained it as he's not using MokoMakefile and his repository might have installed an old version
16:09.01thosohsorry
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16:09.41abraxa_Nothing to be sorry for, heh
16:10.17thosabraxa_, btw I read your PIM proposal
16:10.20thosabraxa_, and commented
16:11.51abraxa_Yeah, didn't get a chance to respond yet - I'll do so this weekend
16:14.38unknown_lameroh nice lbreakout2 is already packaged woo
16:15.29unknown_lamercurse needing an actual device to futz around with writing an accelerometer input method for controlling the paddle
16:15.52Qwellunknown_lamer: that would be pretty awesome
16:16.25unknown_lamerand kind of necessary because there isn't a keypad on the freerunner and all :-)
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16:22.23SpeedEvilunknown_lamer: you don't need one
16:22.32SpeedEvilunknown_lamer: just use a mouse.
16:22.38SpeedEvilIt's just a couple of /dev/inputs
16:22.40SpeedEvilAIUI
16:22.43*** join/#openmoko poff (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
16:22.58SpeedEvilOr even a wii-thingy
16:23.34unknown_lamerSpeedEvil: but is the data going to be usable directly from the input device? I mean, I just want to drop it into landscape mode and tilt the unit back and forth to move the paddle
16:23.57SpeedEvilno - you have to itnerpret it
16:23.59unknown_lamerI was thinking I'd have to do some minor translation of the coordinate data to something usable
16:24.05unknown_lameryeah that was all I was expecting
16:24.27SpeedEvilI assume it's simply a 'normal' device which reports x and y events.
16:24.34SpeedEviland z
16:24.49unknown_lamerI'll just have to add an option to lbreakout2 to go into 'accelerometer mode' or similar and just use the input data differently
16:25.01SpeedEvillike a mouse - xy and z will vary, like moving a 3D mouse round a sphere.
16:25.20SpeedEvilAccording to orientation
16:25.34SpeedEvilplus instantaneous output from accelerations.
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17:16.18CIA-41openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4348 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-battery/src/openmoko-panel-battery.c: openmoko-panel-battery: update battery icon (Erin Yueh)
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17:32.10CIA-41openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4349 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/ (5 files in 2 dirs): openmoko-dialer2: dial *#06# to get IMEI code
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17:43.01flexdoh boy, i look away for a few days and now there's 650 new mails in the mailing list :P
17:43.09*** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-53-89.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:45.14wurp2The new pricing update from Steve was exciting
17:46.55SpeedEvil?
17:47.00SpeedEvilIt's now $10?
17:47.03kdean06Most of us already knew. :P
17:47.06kdean06$399
17:47.14kdean06Or a 10 pack for $3,690
17:47.21Qwell$399 for freerunner?
17:47.24SpeedEvilAh. Massive discount time.
17:47.36kdean06Qwell, Yes.
17:47.45Qwelllame
17:47.51kdean06Debug boards are $99
17:47.56kdean06Sold seperately. :P
17:48.07SpeedEvilAnything else availble?
17:48.30wurp2I knew $399
17:48.41wurp2I didn't know the debug board or 10 pack pricing
17:48.52SpeedEvilWhat about a 10 pack of debug boards?
17:49.05*** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z6edc.z.pppool.de)
17:49.43wurp2I thought, though, that the first round of PVT was over.  Now he's saying that he's just now sending units out for tests?
17:50.23wurp2Qwell: Did something lead you to believe it would be cheaper?
17:50.44Qwellnope
17:51.14*** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
17:51.16wurp2Ppl in the chat room here should be able to finagle $369 pricing
17:51.16Qwellthat's fairly standard for a non-subsidized phone though
17:51.29wurp2Qwell: So why did you say lame?
17:51.52Qwellwurp2: wife, nuff said :p
17:52.03wurp2(finagle it by banding together)
17:52.09wurp2ah, yep
17:52.25*** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@78-22-5-158.access.telenet.be)
17:52.29wurp2Mine is very understanding about my need for a once-a-year 'useless' geek toy fix
17:53.02*** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw)
17:53.03kdean06Qwell, Mine ORDERED me to purchase my Neo. You should start dropping daily hints now, buy the time they're on sale she'll pay $399 to shut you up.
17:53.52SpeedEvil$400 was a good price for the middle of last year. Now, it's getting less good.
17:54.38kdean06The 3G debate really makes me wonder if I'd drop money for a Freerunner.
17:54.56dcordeswhen can I buy freerunner??
17:55.03kdean06dcordes, When it goes on sale. :P
17:55.16dcordeshaha
17:55.18kdean06And your guess is as good as mine to when that will be.
17:55.19dcordesno shit?
17:55.25SpeedEvildc" not announced.
17:55.28CVirusROFL
17:55.39SpeedEvildcordes: magic-announce-ball says 'ask again later'.
17:55.44*** join/#openmoko peeps[work] (n=peepsalo@bwext.kpimdp.com)
17:55.51dcordesok that satisfies me as an annoyed future buyer
17:55.56SpeedEvil:/
17:56.10QwellSpeedEvil: dvorak?
17:56.21SpeedEvildvorak?
17:56.36Qwellyour rather odd typo above looks like a dvorak typo :p
17:56.39SpeedEvilAh - no.
17:56.44QwellTab > "
17:56.46SpeedEvilIt's a UK style laptop keyboard.
17:57.01SpeedEvil: and " are next to each other.
17:57.49dcordesI will rather get an iPhone
17:58.16wurp2dcordes: Probably at LEAST a month, based on the time for the 1st PVT, and the fact that two PVTs plus production ramp-up still to go
17:58.42dcordesI hear new iPhone will feature 3g
17:58.44wurp2:-(
17:59.00*** join/#openmoko tushyd (n=Bob@tdayal.student.iastate.edu)
17:59.06SpeedEvilAnd iphones design budget is on the order of a thousand times more OMs
17:59.33wurp2gps is important to me, and not playing hide & seek jailbreaking a phone the manufacturer doesn't want broken
17:59.36*** join/#openmoko nezza-_- (i=troth@unixforge.de)
17:59.45SpeedEvilYeah.
17:59.50dcordesin case I really wanted one, I'd be _really_ annoyed by now
17:59.54wurp2supporting open sw & hw is a nice bonus
17:59.54SpeedEvilWhich is why I love the openness of openmoko.
18:00.11SpeedEvilI mean - if there is a bug in the GSM firmware, I just flash it myself.
18:00.20abraxa_wurp2: And that's why I wish people would buy the freerunner - cause if no one does there won't be a successor to it...
18:00.24wurp2SpeedEvil: ?
18:00.45wurp2I thought gsm firmware had to be signed right now, or was otherwise restricted in how it could be flashed
18:00.59wurp2abraxa_: Agreed
18:01.00SpeedEvilwurp2: Sorry. That was irony.
18:01.14dcordesSpeedEvil: hm. I hear android is also open.
18:01.15SpeedEviltries to work out an emoticon for that.
18:01.15wurp2k, I thought it might be; making sure
18:01.26QwellWho's gsm chip is it?
18:01.32SpeedEvilQwell: TI
18:01.34Qwellchip/firmware, I g uess I should say
18:01.40unknown_lamerTI is being slightly less evil lately (documenting their chipsets! oh my) so perhaps OM will be able to distribute firmware updates eventually
18:02.02SpeedEvilunknown_lamer: doesn't work that way
18:02.09QwellSpeedEvil: do they do the firmware for it too?
18:02.13wurp2abraxa_: But how OM supports the 1973 will send a message about whether ppl should buy their stuff in the interest of supporting a "movement"
18:02.34*** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@212.150.112.4)
18:02.39abraxa_wurp2: Yeah well... can't say I support their POV on that issue
18:02.49SpeedEvilunknown_lamer: not for this class of chips - they are not typically distributed by distributors even. You simply need to call your TI representative, and prove that you can order a hundred thousand.
18:03.35*** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@81-237-230-160-no83.tbcn.telia.com)
18:03.50unknown_lamerSpeedEvil: I know that is how it is now, but perhaps TI's slow process of being less evil will change the policy of not allowing binary firmware updates to be distributed
18:03.51SpeedEvilThough having said that, the chipset docs have leaked.
18:04.09unknown_lamerone day in the far away future
18:04.37*** join/#openmoko jeffdameth (n=jeff@dyndsl-080-228-191-056.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
18:11.09tushydso are there any updates on release schedules?
18:11.14SpeedEvilNo.
18:11.32tushydsweet
18:12.09unknown_lamerpatience!
18:12.35SpeedEvilPitchforks and torches!
18:12.39SpeedEvilStorm the factory!
18:12.42SpeedEvil:)
18:13.06tushydi'm getting antsy, I want a change from uiq3
18:13.09ewonso I live in california
18:13.18ewonthe land of you wake up and it's 25degC outside
18:13.25ewonand the GTA02 is unreadable in sunlight
18:13.28ewonthis saddens me
18:13.35SpeedEvil:/
18:13.40SpeedEvilponders modding it.
18:14.08kdean06ewon, It's 84F in my building right now. :(
18:14.13wurp2ewon: buy an olpc and use your gta02 as a usb dongle for the gsm & gps
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18:17.17*** join/#openmoko SamuraiDio (n=diovani@201.41.41.235)
18:17.19SamuraiDiohi
18:18.15SamuraiDiowill Freerunner be compatible with any (including non-us) gsm operator?
18:18.31wurp2SamuraiDio: yep
18:18.44SamuraiDio:)
18:18.44*** join/#openmoko astro76 (n=jtaji@unaffiliated/astro76)
18:18.52wurp2It is tri-band, though, so support either in US or everywhere else will be much better, depending on which you get
18:19.09*** join/#openmoko doc|work (n=doc@gentoo/contributor/doc-007)
18:19.28SamuraiDioknow if it will support just one or tow sim cards?
18:19.37SpeedEvilone
18:19.54SamuraiDiohmm...
18:20.20SamuraiDiohope "some time" comes soon... :)
18:20.41ewonhas anyone tried one of those slim dual sim adaptors?
18:20.51ewonlike you get off dodgy honk kong ppl on ebay?
18:21.00ewonI have one in my 6310i, does the job
18:21.41urlauberwhy would you have two sim-cards?
18:21.49SpeedEviltwo networks.
18:22.05urlauberbut why? :)
18:22.05*** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=federico@moinmoin/developer/federico)
18:22.15SpeedEvilbetter rates or coverage.
18:22.52*** join/#openmoko fsteinel (n=fsteinel@pD9FBBE73.dip.t-dialin.net)
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18:22.57doc|workor you're from one country but living in the other
18:22.58doc|work<- is
18:23.01cb22zomg updatss :D
18:23.08doc|workyey! :)
18:23.11doc|workgood news too
18:23.19doc|workanyone got any idea what freebies will be? :)
18:23.53SpeedEvil?
18:23.56cb22makes a note to check the store every hour
18:23.57SamuraiDioone for telephony and other for internet access
18:24.09cb22and to make sure i have my parents cc details on hand :p
18:24.09urlauberok, that makes sense, SpeedEvil, somehow :)
18:25.06doc|workthey still haven't completed pvt, so they won't have production for a while
18:25.21doc|workwants now :o
18:25.36ajbrunwants yesterday
18:25.43doc|workthat too ;)
18:25.45ajbrunand a cider
18:26.05cb22wants
18:27.03ajbrunhopefully, that fact that they're looking at pricing and packaging now means that it shouldn't be too much longer now
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18:28.20SamuraiDiowill freerunner has the same size and design of its ancestor?
18:28.29ajbrunshould do
18:28.33doc|workmore or less
18:28.49doc|worktake a look at planet.openmoko.org to see recent photos
18:29.17SamuraiDiothe 1973 looks very nice, but the screen is a little too small.
18:29.20SamuraiDioi'l look
18:29.29ajbrunbut the screen res is good
18:29.35ajbrunso i'm hoping it should even it out
18:30.06doc|workhere's hoping gta03 is much more compact :)
18:30.16ajbruncompact = smaller screen?
18:30.30ajbrun*confused*
18:30.33doc|workno, less bulky, screen size is ok for a phone imo
18:30.36*** join/#openmoko Tanuva (n=tanuva@d137134.adsl.hansenet.de)
18:30.56CVirusI want a bigger screen
18:31.05doc|workwhat size is it anyway?
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18:31.15cb22768x1024 minimum :p
18:31.15CVirus2.8''
18:31.16doc|work2.8inch?
18:31.18doc|worknods
18:31.28SamuraiDiocoudn't the screen be a little more larguer, and rounded at top/botton (to fill the phone size)?
18:31.31doc|workbecause it's so high res it should be ok
18:31.34urlauberwhy did they remove this silver-border-thingy?
18:31.50doc|workurlauber: I prefer it like it is now :)
18:31.51cb22because it looks a lot hotter in all black?
18:32.23urlauberI liked it :)
18:32.36CVirusfuck no
18:32.39CViruslooks ugly
18:32.53CVirusi mean the all black looks ugly
18:32.56doc|worknah
18:32.58doc|work:)
18:33.05SamuraiDiodoc|home, i higher resolution on a small screen will just make things appear too small, dificult to read
18:33.15SamuraiDioa higher*
18:33.41doc|workthen again, I think the normal porsche cayenne looks ugly (chrome looks cheesy) but saw one today, cayenne GTS, all black, brushed alloys, looked really good.
18:33.55CVirushehe
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18:34.22doc|workSamuraiDio: well, look at the photos, looks pretty readable to me, guess we'll know soon enough :)
18:35.04SamuraiDiosure, the 1973 resolution is enough for its screen size, i think...
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18:35.32wurp2kdean06: To *me* you say "everyone else already knew that :-P"
18:35.44wurp2kdean06: To *steve* you say "Thanks for the info!" ;-P
18:35.50SamuraiDiowhat much will it (freerunner) cost?
18:36.05doc|workSamuraiDio: check the community mailing list, more info there now
18:36.12SamuraiDiouhun..
18:36.17*** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu)
18:36.20doc|work399 per unit or 369 per unit if you and people you know buy a batch of 10
18:36.34kdean06wurp2, Notice I mentioned the info about the DEbug board too. :P There was more info in that message than just the $399 price.
18:37.02doc|workwhat are the freebies? :)
18:37.10wurp2Uh huh, and that's the info I was talking about in the msg where you said everyone else knew that :-)
18:37.24wurp2s/you said/you replied that/
18:37.34SamuraiDio399? how much costs an iPhone (just for comparison)/
18:37.36SamuraiDio?
18:37.42cb22_the same
18:37.45doc|workSamuraiDio: apple.com/whorephone
18:38.05wurp2SamuraiDio: less, I think
18:38.16wurp2but iphone doesn't have gps; it has a camera instead...
18:38.19doc|workbtw, does 399 include delivery?
18:38.29cb22_doubt i
18:38.31cb22_it*
18:38.33wurp2And you can't hack on your iphone w/o fighting every sw update
18:38.45doc|workshame :/ hope they have better delivery options this time :/
18:38.55wurp2SamuraiDio: last I heard, iphone was $300, I thought
18:39.03doc|workwurp2: and still way too locked down
18:40.01SamuraiDiodon't you think that Freerunner could be less costing... i know that a gps receiver could be expansive, but a multitouchscreen is not needed anyway, neither a camera...
18:40.13SamuraiDioexpensive*
18:40.41doc|workSamuraiDio: maybe, but if they make a profit they can actually develop gta03, if they don't, no gta03 for you :)
18:40.50*** join/#openmoko federico_ (n=federico@41.208.50.160)
18:41.05SamuraiDiohmm... sure...
18:41.33SamuraiDiodoc|home, but with a lesser price it would sell better...
18:41.33doc|workreally, they need to be a success if open hardware is seen to be important
18:41.49*** join/#openmoko grummel (n=grummel@2a01:198:21d:0:211:2fff:fe89:f4c2)
18:41.53edistar$300 is a really good price! you can't get many smartphones for less
18:41.59doc|workedistar: 399
18:42.12wurp2For now, $399 looks high for a phone that doesn't do much
18:42.22ajbrunit doesn't do much?
18:42.23cb22__but it can do a lot
18:42.25ajbrun...
18:42.40ajbrunsurley it does more than most phones out there?
18:42.45wurp2I'm hoping once the base software is a stable platform & lots of other sw is ported or built, it will look like a great price
18:42.49doc|workbut even 399 is still a great price, the iphone is 300 and you *have* to buy apps (if you want to go the official route)
18:42.50ajbrunand will do a lot more with all the openness of it all
18:42.56wurp2ajbrun: Well, I can't consistenly get calls on it
18:42.56SamuraiDiowell, for me, i need to convert the price to my currency and add import costs (brazil here) unless someone bring it for me in the back pocket...
18:43.03ajbrunwurp2 - that will change
18:43.09wurp2or sync it with my pc w/o doing technically advanced stuff
18:43.11ajbrunthat's NOW
18:43.16ajbrunnot THEN
18:43.16wurp2ajbrun: That was my point
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18:43.17edistardoc|work: oh..ok
18:43.35cb22__SamuraiDio, same here, but in south africa ^-^
18:43.38ajbrunbut the point is that it's a dev phone
18:43.38wurp2I should have said "doesn't do much now"
18:43.45ajbrunin a years time it'll be worth it
18:43.49wurp2I agree
18:43.53ajbrunbut you'd have already had the use of it a year
18:43.59ajbrunso you've paid the same
18:44.04ajbrunjust got it a year early
18:44.07ajbrunwhile in dev
18:44.10wurp2Of course, also the same hw will be much cheaper in a year
18:44.20doc|workwurp2: nope, inflation sucks :/
18:44.21wurp2If you don't enjoy hacking on it, it is a bad buy right now
18:44.34ajbrunthen don't buy it if u think it's too much
18:44.39doc|workwhat functionality does it actually have now?
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18:44.40cb22__<3s hacking
18:44.41wurp2doc|work: inflation is not 50%
18:44.50SamuraiDioin fact, it has to have a good hardware, the software can be easly update/changed later...
18:44.54doc|workwurp2: neither is the profit margin
18:44.57edistardoc|work: the neo? you can ring with it, sms with it
18:45.04doc|workedistar: good enough for me
18:45.12wurp2doc|work: Well, as long as you can handle babying it, it's a great gps & media player, and an acceptable phone
18:45.15edistardoc|work: and write gtk/efl - python/C programs on it :)
18:45.21wurp2except for battery life
18:45.27wurp2And a fun programming platform
18:45.57edistarbattery life will improve, I just hope and hope :)
18:46.01cb22__thinks everyone who is active in this irc channel should get one for free :p
18:46.03wurp2and browse the web, if you can keep gprs limping, or use usb tether, or pand over bt
18:46.13wurp2cb22__: Let's take a vote on that
18:46.15edistarcb22__: +1 :P
18:46.37cb22__wurp2, i'll host the poll, in my own custom designed poll software :p
18:46.39doc|workhaha
18:46.41edistardoc|work: grps works too afaik.. browser is written too
18:46.59SamuraiDiowurp2, what do you mean by an acceptable phone? for me a phone just need need to make and receiva calls and sms, and keep a contact catalog...
18:47.21doc|workwurp2: flaky other software is fine once I can do the basics, not like I have too many people calling anyway. Oh, one feature I want is to have calls from certain numbers silently ignored. bank telemarketing-- :)
18:47.22wurp2SamuraiDio: I mean what you just said
18:47.29SamuraiDioehh
18:47.32SamuraiDioo/
18:47.40wurp2but on some images, I regularly lose gsm registration and it doesn't auto-re-register
18:47.51SamuraiDiohmm...
18:47.54doc|workedistar: sweet, the browser is going to be a great thing, I have a nokia n800 now which is great for cafes and thigns
18:48.21wurp2doc|work: You can't do that (blocking calls) easily now on the man OM image.  I think it would be easy on the underground image
18:48.44doc|workwurp2: sure, no great rush anyway, I'm sure they'll still be calling me every day in a month
18:48.46wurp2The 4/3 image has been good to me - I don't think I lose gsm registration on it
18:48.47doc|work;)
18:48.55SamuraiDiois it easy to flash/upgrade/install/etc?  can any linux compatible app be installed on it?
18:48.58cb22__underground image?
18:49.26wurp2cb22__: What emdete and mickey|away  have been working on
18:49.39wurp2some new dbus services, & mostly python stack
18:50.02edistardoc|work: the browser is not super great though.. the maemo browser is better atm
18:50.06wurp2cb22__: Browse around the repositories and you'll find it, underground*.jffs2 or something
18:50.20cb22__ooh, interesting, thanks
18:50.20doc|workedistar: yeah, to be expected, although the maemo browser kinda sucks at times :)
18:50.26wurp2gtg for a bit, meeting
18:50.31doc|workbye
18:50.45edistardoc|work: I only have a n770.. that's really slow ;)
18:50.49doc|workhehe
18:52.09edistarI hope there will be a webkit + efl browser soon :>
18:52.43unknown_lamerhrm, I need to look into generating cffi bindings for efl eventually
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19:07.57SamuraiDioedistar, that would be good
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19:20.50ccflygood evening :)
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19:49.57wurp2MichaelShiloh: I don't think I've seen you in here before!
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19:52.11wurp2Does anyone know if there is definitely a firmware problem in the 01 gsm that interferes with resume on incoming call?
19:53.02wurp2I keep seeing people talk about hardware or firmware issues with resume/power management on the 01, but I don't recall ever seeing anyone say just what that problem would be, other than rumors about firmware problems with gsm resume.
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19:54.43thoswurp2, hmm
19:54.55thoswurp2, yes I think there are hardware issues
19:55.09thosbut, you need to get some authorative answers
19:55.31thosI guess it will be hard to get a company to admit their product was flawed though!
19:57.47wurp2Well, we all knew there might be issues
19:58.38wurp2thos: You have an 02?
19:58.40mwesterwurp2:  To give OM the benefit of the doubt, I think the issue is that there is no simple "yes/no" answer to that question.
19:58.50wurp2Sure
19:59.01SpeedEvilThere are - as far as I know - no significant power problems in the hardware - other than the GSM modem firmware not going all the way to sleep thing.
19:59.03mwesterwurp2:  As I understand it, OM have modified the firmware on the GSM to address the shortcomings of the phone hardware or CPU
19:59.20wurp2mwester: But I would LOVE to know whether using suspend/resume to get > 2 days standby, with wake on incoming call or sms, was possible
19:59.21SpeedEvilWhich at worst leads to a 30mA drain - and hence a 40h best case battery life.
19:59.36SpeedEvilwurp2: not with the standard shipped GSM firmware.
19:59.38mwesterwurp2:  Specifically dealing with the interrupt handling.  I think they are still messing about with this as of some weeks ago, so it's  far from resolved IMO.
19:59.50wurp2SpeedEvil: Ah, so the issue is that it won't properly sleep deeply
20:00.02wurp2the (iirc) < .7 mA sleep
20:00.15SpeedEvil.7mA sounds a bit low
20:00.22SpeedEvilbut it's well under teh existing 30.
20:02.29SpeedEvilgg depleted uranium buy
20:02.32SpeedEviloops
20:02.58doc|workwhat's the battery lifetime now anyway?
20:03.03wurp24-5 hours :-(
20:03.08doc|workon the gta02?
20:03.10wurp2I mean, of course it depends on how you use it
20:03.14wurp2No idea on 02
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20:03.59SpeedEvil4-12 hours
20:04.15doc|worko.O
20:04.35SpeedEvil12 is underclocking and mostly idle.
20:05.06quicksandthos: I gave you some gtk theme feedback in the comments of your blog.
20:05.08wurp2SpeedEvil: underclocking?  They have cpufreq working on 02?
20:05.23SpeedEvil01
20:05.37SpeedEviland not properly.
20:05.44SpeedEvilUsing u-boot
20:06.08wurp2ah
20:06.52wurp2doc|work: afaik that's what any smartphone's life will look like if you don't have good pm sw
20:07.29doc|workthat's pretty terrible :/
20:08.20wurp2yep
20:08.27wurp2pm software is very important
20:08.34wurp2(and good pm supporting hw)
20:08.58wurp2right after you have the basic phone functionality actually consistently working ;-)
20:09.04doc|workaye, thought they had a lot of that sorted? :/
20:10.58wurp2Well, periodically I will get an image that loses network reg and doesn't reacquire automatically
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20:11.20wurp2Not a problem with the 4/3 release, I don't think, but I had issues no more than 2-3 weeks before that
20:11.44SpeedEvilSee http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_GTA01_Power_Management for more info
20:11.45wurp2It is WAY better than it was a couple of months ago, which is much better than it was 6 months ago
20:11.51SpeedEvil(not updated recently)
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20:12.04wurp2Yeah, but that doesn't say much about deep sleep power draw by gsm
20:13.18SpeedEvilNo.
20:13.35SpeedEvilThat's not something that can be fixed by mere users.
20:13.46SpeedEvil(who have not downloaded the calypso PDFs)
20:14.07wurp2And hacked together new firmware & installer...
20:15.51cb22SpeedEvil, why exactly do you want to buy depleted uranium :p
20:16.54wurp2To build rounds that will penetrate tank armor, of course!
20:17.12wurp2Or to work on his cyborg suit, one of the two
20:17.15cb22ah yes, of course
20:17.43thosquicksand, yes, I saw, thanks!
20:17.48*** join/#openmoko yoyo (n=yoyo@nat.zegrze.maverick.com.pl)
20:17.48thosquicksand, I even replied :-)
20:18.02yoyohi
20:18.07thosquicksand, I had noticed the notification text colour issues too
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20:28.52quicksandthos: Oh, I hadn't been back since I posted the small addition.  :-)
20:30.00quicksandYou might remember that I did some poking around on your old Moko theme, months ago.
20:30.09quicksandHighly premature bug filing: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=903
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20:49.42unknown_lamerhmm should I need to anything more than set the SRC_URI and 'inherit autotools' to make an autotools using package build with bitbake?
20:50.01unknown_lamerfor some reason it keeps failing because the do_configure stuff decides there is no configure script depsite there being one
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21:00.17abraxa_unknown_lamer: Sounds fine to me. Did you try the autotools cycle manually already?
21:02.52unknown_lamerabraxa_: yes it works for a native install
21:03.01unknown_lamerI'm not sure how I'd go about manually cross compiling
21:03.27unknown_lamerthe test -x "${S}/configure" fails so it logs "NOTE: nothing to configure"
21:03.28SpeedEvilcb22: I was considering it for use in glazes on pottery.
21:03.38unknown_lamerand yet there is a configure
21:04.09abraxa_unknown_lamer: What do you have in your .bb?
21:04.20unknown_lamerDESCRIPTION = "ffcall library for clisp"
21:04.20unknown_lamerSRC_URI = "file:///home/clinton/src/cvs/ffcall.tar.gz"
21:04.20unknown_lamerinherit autotools
21:04.41unknown_lamerbefore I was using the ffcall/ cvs dir directly (it does have the configure script in the checkout)
21:04.45unknown_lamerand configure is +x
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21:05.27unknown_lamerthat extracts into ffcall/ does bitbake assume some naming scheme for the source dir?
21:05.32mwesterYou're trying to build lisp?   Perhaps if you add some more parens to the bb file in random places?  ;)
21:06.08abraxa_unknown_lamer: What baffles me is that you say configure exists but bitbake says it doesn't
21:06.30unknown_lamerI'm thinking maybe if I rename the directory it extracts to to ffcall-1.0 (not dealing with src revs yet) it might work judging from other packags
21:06.45unknown_lamerdamn you underdocumented bitbake
21:07.02abraxa_I wonder if you can simply look at the value of $S somehow
21:07.21mwesterIt should be present in expanded form in the log files.
21:07.29abraxa_Good point
21:07.56unknown_lamerI tried adding ffcall_do_configure { oenote "S = ${S}" } but no dice
21:08.25unknown_lamerand I dunno have to grab env vars from python as the only python I know is what I picked up doing simple programs for two weeks in CS331
21:08.44unknown_lamerunless the docs for addtask lie and I can use shell functions with it?
21:09.40unknown_lamerthe docs spend an awful lot of time going over really dumb things and then just don't document the useful parts!
21:09.52mwesterCan you not find something comparable in the set of bitbake recipes to just copy?
21:09.55unknown_lamerWho needs a ten line example for appending strings ... anyone who does might want to not be a programmer
21:10.20unknown_lamerI did that :-) I looked at a bunch of autotools using packages and it seems that I am doing the correct thing
21:10.29unknown_lameraha! it *was* the filename
21:10.46unknown_lamerdamn bitbake why can't it be smart enough to detect that the tarball unpacks to a different name that it expects
21:10.53abraxa_unknown_lamer: Do you have anything in build/tmp/work/.../ffcall-.../temp/?
21:11.01abraxa_Oh, it works now
21:11.02abraxa_?
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21:11.19unknown_lameryeah I renamed ffcall/ to ffcall-1.0/
21:11.22quicksandunknown_lamer: Heh.  So did you just change the value of ${S}?
21:11.24abraxa_Oh good
21:11.38unknown_lamerand then magically it worked except now it wants to run autoreconf which breaks the configure script
21:12.23quicksandNever mind, I see
21:13.26unknown_lamerand of course there is no way to make it not do that
21:13.44mwesterNo, that's by design.
21:14.04mwesterThere's a way to do it, but you need to override the autoconf stuff in bitbake to make it *not* do that.
21:14.29mwester(I have no idea where I saw a bitbake file that does that, but it's done by at least one )
21:15.15quicksandmwester: I know what you mean -- I have read SO MANY bb files (the only really useful documentation there is) that it's hard to remember what's what
21:17.08unknown_lamerI think if I set PN to something?
21:17.29unknown_lamerI do love how nothing is documented and the variable names tend to be two letters long
21:17.41quicksandunknown_lamer: Have you read the OE manual?
21:17.42unknown_lamerI want my common lisp with its friendly multiple-value-bind and friends
21:17.49quicksandIt's got most of the basics.
21:17.58unknown_lameryes but it doesn't document anything but the very rudimentary basics
21:18.15unknown_lamerand then in the more useful parts "todo: write" ...
21:18.36unknown_lameroh I see PN is ... package name
21:19.23quicksandYeah, but it does document variable names.
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21:25.22yoyohihi my moko resums from sleep :)
21:25.30unknown_lamerbah the ffcall configure stuff is hairy
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21:28.01summatusmentisoh sweet, we know pricing etc. for FreeRunner
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21:30.10mjrseems so
21:30.20mjrneed to gather up a crew of 10 :)
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21:31.06SpeedEvilI suppose there will be some shipping saving on the 10 too
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21:33.03summatusmentisanyone in the US(north east) wanna go in on a pack of 10?
21:34.03mwesterrather premature, don't you think?
21:35.12summatusmentiswhy?
21:35.26summatusmentisit's just called early planning
21:35.37SpeedEvilorders -2147483638.
21:36.12rasteryou might want to wait until details are out
21:36.16raster"_
21:36.33SpeedEvilYeah.
21:36.41raster:)
21:36.45SpeedEvilDue to a spec error, the first batch come with 28" screens.
21:36.51rasterhahaha
21:37.14rastersomehow i see it unlikely we will be smart enough to take a single order and batch it into 1 shipment, thus saving u money
21:37.25rasterchanes are - u order 10, and 10 shipments (separate) will occur
21:38.21summatusmentisraster: that sounds like a terrible process
21:38.30SpeedEvilMany places do this.
21:38.44SpeedEvilAlas.
21:38.50rastersummatusmentis: doing otherwise highy clomplicates thing
21:39.09rasteru have to be a very sophisitcate ddistributor before u start being that smart
21:39.15summatusmentisraster: why? how is tying the order to quantity that difficult?
21:39.17rasterand frankly - we barely know how to distribute
21:39.23rasterwe are NOTa sohpisitaced one
21:39.27wurp2yoyo: Your resume works consistently?
21:39.32wurp2How did you get it working?
21:39.34SpeedEvilShip me them all, I'll sell them on ebay. Job done.
21:39.54yoyowurp2: one moment I'w resume it :)
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21:40.52doc|workraster: that's a bit ridiculous :/
21:41.02summatusmentisschemes about selling his Zaurus
21:41.24rasterdoc|work: not really
21:41.32yoyowurp2: http://blog.rot13.org/2007/09/openmoko_as_a_phone.html << chk
21:41.38rasteras it makes packaging of shipoed items easy
21:41.39SpeedEvildoc|home: all you need for the first case is a label printer, and a pile of pre-wrapped boxes.
21:41.45rastereverything goes into the 1 same-sized box
21:42.11SpeedEvildoc|home: A label comes out of the printer, an operative picks up the label, affixes it to the package, and takes it to the post office.
21:42.32SpeedEvilIt eliminates the whole 'picking' step, and you can't get the numbers of items in the box wrong.
21:43.00cdbot2* * OM Bug 1337 has been created by reddog(AT)mastersword.de
21:43.01cdbot2* * Keyboard is unusable
21:43.02cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1337
21:43.05wurp2yoyo: So just changing the boot parameters made resume work consistently?  What image are you using?
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21:43.54rasterwe havce improved since gta01 - we actually have distribution centers
21:43.55yoyowurp2: present
21:43.56mwesterNot to mention the accounting problems caused by multiple shipments, with exchange rates possibly shifting as the order is satisfied...
21:43.59raster1 for usa, 1 for europe
21:44.11rasterso we're not couriering direct from taiwan
21:44.32rasterbut i doubt u'll see use amalgamate orders into 1 shipment and 1 shipping cost
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21:44.43wurp2yoyo: That is awesome!  I know what I'm doing tomorrow morning...
21:45.55rasterwe would need to have multiple packing boxes
21:46.00rasterpack on-demand
21:46.22rastercalculate shipping as a combo of packing box(es) chosen, how many items in them (weight) etc.
21:46.37rasterand then have the distrubiton centers re-pack differently per customer
21:46.41rasterit is of course all possible
21:46.47rasterbut i doubt we will be doing that
21:47.01cdbot2* * OM Bug 1338 has been created by reddog(AT)mastersword.de
21:47.02cdbot2* * Font is a way to big
21:47.03cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1338
21:47.10mwesteryoyo: can you be more specific?  I notice from the blog entry that it looks like that's with a kernel from August of 2007 - is that still what you are using?
21:47.50rastertho frankly - i dont know what it is we are doing
21:47.55rasternot my department
21:47.56raster:)
21:47.57RedDogWhat is this plus sign in the right top corner, left to the X sign in the openmoko-webbrowser?
21:48.27yoyomwester: I have 2.4.24-git kernel and it more often work then don't
21:48.37RedDogAnd, wasn't there kinetic-scrolling in the webbrowser?
21:48.45yoyomwester: resuming I mean
21:48.55mwesterWhat key do you use to resume?
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21:49.13yoyomwester: top left
21:49.26mwesterHmmm.... totally broken for me.
21:49.26SpeedEvilAux.
21:49.41SpeedEvilwishes for actual regression testing.
21:50.02wurp2yoyo: Ah, so when you say latest image, you just mean jffs2
21:50.13wurp2but I thought the latest image wouldn't work with a 2.4.24 kernel...
21:50.38doc|workSpeedEvil: it's not hard to count :) and all you need is to set up two delivery packages with your vendor, 1x size and 10x size.
21:51.27SpeedEvildoc|home: you need a more expensive shipping-monkey.
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21:51.50doc|workSpeedEvil: so you have to pay more to find someone who can count as well as read? :)
21:51.56abraxa_"<raster> tho frankly - i dont know what it is we are doing" <~ I love how I can totally pull that out of context and quote you on it ;)
21:51.56yoyowurp2: root@fic-gta01:~# uname -a
21:51.56yoyoLinux fic-gta01 2.6.24 #1 PREEMPT Sat Mar 22 00:46:15 UTC 2008 armv4tl unknown
21:52.20rasterabraxa_: HAHAHAHAHA
21:52.34SpeedEvildoc|home: they don't need to read.
21:52.51joschabraxa_, :P
21:52.52SpeedEvildoc|home: a label comes out, they put it on the package, you drop it in the mailbox.
21:52.53doc|workSpeedEvil: man, really scraping the bottom of the barrel there, what is it we're paying for? :)
21:52.58wurp2yoyo: cool
21:53.56wurp2yoyo: It looked as if you told mwester earlier that you were using 2.4.24
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21:55.01SpeedEvilAndroid - http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/57931/1207820132/android.jpg
21:55.05yoyowurp2: sory my error
21:55.38wurp2yoyo: np :-)
21:56.27RedDogyoyo: this blog entry helps me too, but only for using modem after resume! :D
21:56.45RedDogbut after all, it sometimes still hangs on resume :-(
21:57.17wurp2:-(
21:57.36RedDogyoyo: how is yours?
21:58.33wurp2RedDog: Are you using AUX or Power to resume?
21:58.51RedDogi gladly would try to view kernel prints on rs232, but i don't have a cable for it ...
21:58.53wurp2Or a phone call?
21:59.03wurp2;-)
21:59.11RedDogwurp2: all three ;-)! but power button works only once...
21:59.20yoyoRedDog: no. I don't have second sim card
21:59.24wurp2OK, I was just wondering which was failing sometimes
21:59.35RedDogwurp2: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=79#c11
22:00.06RedDogyoyo: i mean: does your neo sometimes crash on resume?
22:00.31yoyoRedDog: from time to time. but less often
22:00.38wurp2wurp2: I knew it failed sometimes with default boot param
22:00.43wurp2Ah, that answers that question :-)
22:01.20wurp2I thought yoyo was saying earlier that this fixed resume flakiness too, and I wanted to make sure you were resuming the same way he is so we're all talking about the same thing
22:01.37RedDogdoes anybody know how i can connect my rs232 on pc with neo without debug board?
22:01.56wurp2I didn't think you could
22:02.04RedDogthe resume failure is on all three the same ...
22:02.06wurp2But I would be glad to be corrected
22:02.07RedDogwurp2: why not?
22:02.17wurp2Where is rs232 on the neo?
22:02.18SpeedEvilRedDog: you basically can't.
22:02.27SpeedEvilRedDog: unless you're willing to do some soldering.
22:02.34wurp2I thought w/o the debug board hooked up, you don't really have access to it
22:02.54RedDogSpeedEvil: couldn't i press some thin wire in the debug-port on the neo side?
22:03.01SpeedEvilNo.
22:03.08wurp2RedDog: The resume failure isn't exactly the same - aux & power behave differently
22:03.11SpeedEvilthere are elevenyty-one connectors in there.
22:03.26RedDogwurp2: but it hangs on both! :(
22:03.42RedDogSpeedEvil: i need only two, or not?
22:03.54wurp2RedDog: But it hangs differently on each
22:03.57SpeedEvilrespawn: you can't poke wires that accurately.
22:03.59SpeedEvilred:
22:04.13wurp2RedDog: And some releases don't resume at all on aux, but I think that was intentional
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22:04.22RedDoglet's say i have the cable to connect debug board to neo, can't i tune this cable?
22:04.25wurp2or maybe they didn't resume on power, not 100% sure
22:04.39SpeedEvilRedDog: yes - you'd just need a level converter.
22:04.55SpeedEvilRedDog: but you run into the same problem - the cable ends are insanely dense.
22:04.56RedDogwurp2: that are only phones wich weren't sold
22:05.11wurp2Anyway, the fact that it hangs differently on each made me think a fix might work for one but not the other, but it doesn't, so I'll shut up now
22:05.34RedDogbut with level converter (wich one?) and very very good iron skills it is possible?
22:05.39wurp2RedDog: Nah, it was a kernel update someone did a few weeks back that ignored one of the interrupts
22:05.44SpeedEvilyes - in principle.
22:06.13RedDogwurp2: yes, but i got reverted because of this old devices!
22:06.40RedDogSpeedEvil: nice, do you know wich level converter would be fine? max232?
22:07.00SpeedEvilprobably, yes.
22:07.11RedDogrs232 was 0 to 5 volts? and neo has?
22:07.18RedDogor am i wrong?
22:07.25SpeedEvilRedDog: yes
22:07.38RedDoghow is it right?
22:08.25SpeedEvilThe neo has 0-3.3V serial. RS232 (classical) is -12/12
22:08.45RedDogwow ... -12/12 .. shure?
22:08.53SpeedEvilyes
22:08.58SpeedEvilIt was designed in the 60s?
22:09.59RedDogok... and today it is still the best ;)
22:10.01ccflyyou could just use one of the ftdi usb serial converters for this
22:10.09ccflythere are a few premade modules
22:10.42RedDogmy pc as 4 nativ rs232, why not use them?
22:10.52SpeedEvilBecasue it will kill the neo
22:10.59SpeedEvilthey will output +-12 - or may
22:11.08RedDogand a max232 could be in the boxes next to me ;)
22:11.16wurp2later guys; have a good weekend!
22:11.19RedDogshure, only with converter!!
22:12.39ccfly<SpeedEvil> It was designed in the 60s? <--- designed is an overstatement here :>
22:12.45ccflyit just came into being :>
22:13.15rtmI've always preferred 20 mAmp current loop.
22:14.21RedDogmax232 is for 0..5V devices, neo has 0-3.3V ... ok, need a different one ... what are these ftdi - usb serial converters?
22:14.51ccfly3.3V on one end, 5V USB B connector on the other
22:14.58ccflychip is powered though USB
22:15.20RedDoghave you any name?
22:15.23ccflythey're expensive though
22:15.27ccflyone sev
22:15.29ccflysec
22:15.30RedDogouh ...
22:15.49ccflyhttp://www.dontronics-shop.com/FTDI-p-1-c-321.html
22:16.05RedDogthanks ..
22:16.53RedDogvery nice ... and 15 euros are okey, i think ...
22:17.42SpeedEvilRedDog: why do you want serial?
22:18.12RedDogSpeedEvil: because i hope to see there some more kernel message about resuming ..
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22:19.35RedDognot possible? should i kill my dream of a resuming neo?
22:20.18mwesterRedDog:  Not possible without a debug board.  And even with a debug board, you cannot see any messages if gsmd is running.
22:21.04SpeedEvilI would say not possible is a _little_ strong.
22:21.23cb22thinks depleted uranium is stronger :p
22:21.38RedDogmwester: why only with debug board? what can this jtag helps me more than a rs232 connection
22:21.41RedDog?
22:22.01cb22More related - would there be any use of getting a debug board for freerunner?
22:22.05SpeedEvilThe problem is the connection is hard to make physically.
22:22.12SpeedEvilcbrake_away: yes - but limited.
22:22.14mwesterOk, for the purists such as SpeedEvil, I'll qualify that:  You cannot gain access to the serial port without a debug board, UNLESS you have surface-mount soldering gear and the ability to use it.
22:22.36SpeedEvilmwester: what I was about to say
22:23.29cb22couldn't you just use the ribbon?
22:23.41RedDogdoes this helps? http://www.ersatzteil.justone-schnepel.de/assets/images/Flachbandkabel-13.jpg
22:24.39mwestercb22:  I don't know how you would solder to the ribbon, and if you used a connector, you would have to solder to the connector, which gets back to SMT soldering equipment.  Unless SpeedEvil has some other ideas.
22:25.00SpeedEvilThere are I think solderpads on the board.
22:25.16SpeedEvilI can't find a clear image and I've lost my torx screwdriver of hte right sixe.
22:25.29RedDoghttp://wiki.openmoko.org/images/4/45/Gta01b_v2_debugport_closed.jpg
22:25.43RedDogdoen't look unsolderable for me! ;)
22:25.46cb22mwester: pfft, i dont need smt soldering gear, just give me a blowtorch and some red bull
22:25.58joschhelps
22:26.11mwesterRedDog:  go for it.
22:26.12RedDogto solder something to this cable is simple, you just cut between the pins...
22:26.12doc|workthieves cb22's wings
22:26.23cb22josch: i didnt ask for a camisole :p
22:26.32SpeedEvilRedDog: you realise the scale on that?
22:26.49joschcb22, you wont get mine anyway :P
22:27.12RedDogSpeedEvil: think so, but not shure ..
22:27.36SpeedEvilRedDog: IIRC the connector is about 12mm long
22:27.47yoyosleep time
22:27.47cb22oh, i thought you were giving it to your gf. well, each to his own i guess, if you like wearing camisoles...
22:27.47RedDogbut the only other option i have is to get a debug board ... but where should i get only a debug board for a low price?
22:27.48yoyosija
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22:33.43joschcb22 misunderstands what josch sais on purpose it seems... :P
22:36.23abraxa_josch: He's just making suuuuuuure.
22:36.50joscho hai abraxa_
22:37.02joschbefore this escalates again...
22:37.08joschi'm going to bed ^^
22:38.54abraxa_.oO(Mission Accomplished)
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22:53.15ccflybye ! :>
22:53.16*** part/#openmoko ccfly (n=ccfly@89.212.76.77)
22:53.35RedDogjust opened the case ... wow really difficult!
22:54.16mwesterPretty nicely designed for hackers, no
22:54.17mwester?
22:55.07SpeedEvilwishes for one little connector.
22:56.03mwesterloves the idea they discussed for the 03 -- putting the debug board components on the phone, and a USB connector to replace the debug connector.
22:56.34abraxa_mwester: You mean SpeedEvil's post about adding a low-power CPU?
22:57.41mwesterabraxa_:  No, earlier than that they discussed putting the USB/serial chip on the phone with a micro connector on-phone, that would do everything the debug board does, and eliminate the need for the backup flash stuff on the 02.  Great idea.
22:57.43SpeedEvilThat CPU is moderately high power - but it buys quite a lot in terms of functionality - 8mA at 2V minimum operating.
22:58.14SpeedEvilI don't see the point. You can use the main connector with a small MCU.
22:58.23mwesterThe point of what?
22:58.48SpeedEvilAdding debug components that are only debug components.
22:59.08abraxa_SpeedEvil: I do like the idea as well, except two parts: battery drainage and the issue of updating that CPU's code
22:59.33mwesterIt eliminates the need for the debug connector, and half of the flash.  Elminates the backup copy of uboot, and all the crud that goes along with it.
22:59.34SpeedEvilThat particular CPU has a serial bootloader.
23:00.13RedDoghmm... i need such a cable... or ... a debug board ...
23:00.20mwesterI think we're talking multiple things here; I refer to proposed changes that predate the second CPU thing...
23:00.49mwesterThe addition of the usb/serial chip would have no negative power implications.
23:01.11SpeedEvilmwester: in some ways I'd be arguing for throwing out things. The second accelerometer. The battery meter.
23:01.33mwesterGPS
23:02.02RedDogGSM ...
23:02.29abraxa_Glamo!
23:02.32rtmI'd certainly rather lose the GSM than the GPS.
23:02.33mwester:D Might as well, none of the GSMs shipped to date have been particularly heavily used, in terms of phone use anyway!
23:02.55mwester;)  'course fixing the software and suspect/resume might correct that...
23:03.09RedDogmwester: right ...
23:03.22rtmsuspect/resume is a nice way to phrase it.
23:03.24RedDogso let's get this damn resume work! ;)
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23:05.49mwesterrtm: :o oops, freudian slip!
23:06.23mwesterRedDog:  That's what I was working on, until I got distracted by that silly Windows RNDIS problem.
23:06.47mwesterBut in a strange way, I really do enjoy all the pretty colors the LCD cycles through when resume fails...
23:07.20RedDogno, i'm not ...
23:07.38RedDogmwester: you have a debug board, right?
23:10.23doc|workcan I have a phone now? :(
23:10.53edistardoc|work: any phone you want.. save the gta02
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23:13.05mwesterRedDog:  Yes
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23:14.36RedDogdid you look on the serial console on resume?
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23:16.01mwesterYep.  Not too much helpful information just yet.
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23:34.56RedDogok, have to go to bed now ...
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