| 00:08.52 | *** join/#openmoko mgregson (n=mgregson@auth2-188.uwaterloo.ca) |
| 00:12.44 | *** join/#openmoko ThePizzaKing (n=jeff@c122-107-243-224.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 00:14.29 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (i=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 00:36.26 | *** join/#openmoko fulgas (n=fn@a83-132-24-119.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 00:38.02 | *** join/#openmoko flat (n=bkaplan@unaffiliated/flat) |
| 00:38.11 | *** part/#openmoko flat (n=bkaplan@unaffiliated/flat) |
| 00:38.16 | *** join/#openmoko flat (n=bkaplan@unaffiliated/flat) |
| 00:46.22 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-227-030.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 00:47.27 | *** join/#openmoko exastra (n=go@75.148.80.90) |
| 00:59.33 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 01:03.13 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 01:03.16 | *** join/#openmoko pH5_ (n=ph5@e178255041.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 01:14.32 | *** join/#openmoko party- (i=party@stetson.frozenhat.fi) |
| 01:14.40 | *** join/#openmoko teprrr (i=tpr@stetson.frozenhat.fi) |
| 01:20.10 | *** join/#openmoko fgau_ (n=fgau@pD953A610.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:28.31 | *** join/#openmoko ebadmsg (n=moon@62.141-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 01:31.47 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 01:40.33 | *** join/#openmoko lpotter (n=lpotter@c210-49-127-23.rochd1.qld.optusnet.com.au) |
| 01:45.52 | summatusmentis | oh, the neo is way smaller than I thought... |
| 01:46.27 | summatusmentis | it's really only a little bit taller and wider than the palm centro |
| 01:47.42 | SpeedEvil | As a ballpark - it fits entirely in a coke can. |
| 01:47.58 | SpeedEvil | (warranty void if you do not remove the coke) |
| 01:48.04 | summatusmentis | the image on the wiki(rotating one on the front page) looks way bigger |
| 01:50.38 | summatusmentis | abraxa_: are you around? |
| 01:53.51 | doc|home | so, anyone heard anything about how the production testing is going? |
| 01:55.35 | SpeedEvil | There are problems. Someone wrote the spec so that it has to cope with being dropped while riding a unicorn. So first, one has to be genetically engineered. |
| 01:55.58 | doc|home | shit, so, another 3 month delay then? |
| 01:56.01 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jaebird@unaffiliated/jaebird) |
| 01:56.11 | summatusmentis | how do they test this? |
| 02:01.17 | *** join/#openmoko astro76 (n=jtaji@unaffiliated/astro76) |
| 02:07.49 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 02:14.55 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: you mean how is testing done? |
| 02:29.37 | *** join/#openmoko lpotter (n=lpotter@c210-49-127-23.rochd1.qld.optusnet.com.au) |
| 02:34.27 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack_ (n=j_ack@dsbg-4db7dd32.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 02:48.26 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@130.216.42.71) |
| 03:10.48 | *** join/#openmoko eiko (n=eikonos@S0106001839d699fa.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 03:15.02 | *** join/#openmoko teprrr (i=tpr@stetson.frozenhat.fi) |
| 03:15.30 | *** join/#openmoko party- (i=party@stetson.frozenhat.fi) |
| 03:18.10 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 03:18.12 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-69-104-245-232.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 03:23.46 | *** join/#openmoko darmou (n=darmou@ppp121-44-174-197.lns5.mel4.internode.on.net) |
| 03:26.21 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jaebird@unaffiliated/jaebird) |
| 03:28.16 | *** join/#openmoko diefordethklok (n=geoffrey@user-0ccsqs9.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 03:30.54 | *** join/#openmoko jkilb_ (n=jkilb@p5B20BA5D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:31.17 | *** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@blfd-4db505bc.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 03:34.56 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 03:37.10 | *** join/#openmoko sudharsh_ (n=sudharsh@59.92.94.2) |
| 03:39.04 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 03:45.04 | *** join/#openmoko emPower (n=krnlbg@pmsn.139.48.189.90.sable.dsl.krasnet.ru) |
| 03:46.57 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@dsbg-4db7dd32.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 03:52.22 | *** part/#openmoko tick35 (n=tick@118-168-107-4.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 04:18.17 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb_ (n=cesarb@grumari.nitnet.com.br) |
| 04:26.39 | *** join/#openmoko jeffdamet1 (n=jeff@dyndsl-080-228-189-188.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 04:27.11 | nezza-_- | mojen.. weiss jemand ob edje viele floats beim rendern benutzt? |
| 04:33.13 | *** join/#openmoko party- (i=party@stetson.frozenhat.fi) |
| 04:33.16 | *** join/#openmoko teprrrr (i=tpr@stetson.frozenhat.fi) |
| 04:33.23 | *** join/#openmoko flat (n=bkaplan@unaffiliated/flat) |
| 04:40.42 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net) |
| 05:16.37 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@adsl-75-62-4-13.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:23.52 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: I meant how do they test if the freerunner can test being dropped from a unicorn |
| 05:33.33 | *** join/#openmoko peter__b (n=biertrin@p54978927.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:33.34 | SpeedEvil | I may not have been completely serious. |
| 05:33.42 | SpeedEvil | It was a hippogryph. |
| 05:35.08 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 05:35.27 | SpeedEvil | Dissasembled server, so now I have no images to flash my neo with. |
| 05:35.33 | SpeedEvil | wonders. |
| 05:38.59 | mwester | Mouse in the server? |
| 05:39.43 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 05:39.49 | SpeedEvil | I was upgrading foolishly. |
| 05:40.06 | CM | would like to do some foolish upgrades too :D |
| 05:40.17 | SpeedEvil | Someone gave me a faster motherboard with a broken HDMI socket |
| 05:40.22 | SpeedEvil | (which I don't use) |
| 05:40.44 | SpeedEvil | So I dissasembled my (not properly cased) server pile, and then reassembled. |
| 05:41.02 | SpeedEvil | Only to note when about to complete, the lack of PATA sockets. |
| 05:41.22 | SpeedEvil | Hence foolish. |
| 05:41.33 | CM | Hehe |
| 05:41.43 | mwester | has a PCI-express PATA card in his build machine, due to a similar error... |
| 05:42.04 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peeps@cpe-67-9-161-48.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 05:42.17 | SpeedEvil | Oh well - I still have my laptop. |
| 05:42.30 | SpeedEvil | And my (somewhat broken) neo. |
| 05:42.42 | mwester | It's broken too? |
| 05:43.01 | SpeedEvil | MMF has not been producing working images for me for the past week or two. |
| 05:43.16 | CM | Not for the last 2-3 months for me |
| 05:43.19 | SpeedEvil | Even new fresh copies started completely from scratch. |
| 05:43.26 | CM | I just can't get the stinking pth to build |
| 05:43.28 | mwester | Working ok here... |
| 05:43.42 | mwester | I just built last night. |
| 05:43.56 | SpeedEvil | I diddn't try last night - owing to the above dissasembly. |
| 05:44.16 | SpeedEvil | The whole topbar missing thing. |
| 05:44.20 | CM | I've tried everything, restarting from scratch, refetching all sources, all combinations of binary locales for glibc.. |
| 05:44.28 | CM | tries for the 100th time |
| 05:44.38 | mwester | Disable binary locales. |
| 05:44.54 | CM | mwester: Yes, that's what I've used most of the time |
| 05:44.57 | *** join/#openmoko sudharsh_ (n=sudharsh@59.92.63.239) |
| 05:45.18 | CM | But pth fails because of some glib issue, so I tried to add binary locales again just to try |
| 05:45.30 | mwester | The topbar missing... |
| 05:45.34 | mwester | PREFERRED_PROVIDER_virtual/libqte2 = "qte" |
| 05:45.39 | mwester | ? perhaps? |
| 05:46.56 | SpeedEvil | I have no clue. |
| 05:47.11 | mwester | CM: have you tried completely from scratch (i.e. blow away everything except your downloads/sources directory? |
| 05:47.16 | mwester | ) |
| 05:47.17 | SpeedEvil | I've tried to avoid reading up on openembedded, as I fear my brain may explode. |
| 05:47.34 | SpeedEvil | mwester: I've tried several times starting from a solitary makefile |
| 05:47.37 | CM | mwester: Yes, completely from scratch, just the makefile |
| 05:47.47 | mwester | Ok. Ouch. |
| 05:47.53 | CM | mwester: Not even keeping the sources in case they were borked |
| 05:48.17 | CM | I just find it very odd, since I'm the only one getting this error |
| 05:48.44 | CM | XorA had gotten it some years ago, for a while, but it went away after a while or something |
| 05:48.46 | mwester | All my build systems (I have three, with two up-to-date) work, but they are all Fedora-based, so perhaps there are distro-specific problems. ;( |
| 05:48.53 | SpeedEvil | CM: what happens when it works? |
| 05:48.58 | SpeedEvil | is on slackware. |
| 05:49.01 | CM | pth builds |
| 05:49.05 | SpeedEvil | Maybe I should upgrade bitbake,... |
| 05:49.12 | CM | ~blame gentoo |
| 05:49.12 | apt | ACTION blames gentoo (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 05:54.28 | mwester | SpeedEvil: any customizations to the kernel in your images? |
| 05:56.05 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 05:56.09 | SpeedEvil | stock kernel |
| 05:56.19 | SpeedEvil | I started completely from scratch |
| 05:57.20 | SpeedEvil | The 'underground' images. Do they just have a flourescant german 'home' app, or is there other stuff in there. |
| 05:58.08 | mwester | What are 'underground' images? |
| 05:58.25 | SpeedEvil | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D |
| 05:58.26 | CM | the python stuff |
| 05:58.32 | CM | emdete's work |
| 05:58.59 | mwester | hasn't kept up lately :( |
| 05:59.42 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07D07A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:00.03 | *** join/#openmoko lpotter (n=lpotter@c210-49-127-23.rochd1.qld.optusnet.com.au) |
| 06:01.09 | SpeedEvil | With a confusing keyboard. |
| 06:10.45 | SpeedEvil | Oooh - /me has a pink cat. |
| 06:14.39 | mwester | You're supposed to wash colors separately. |
| 06:18.53 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 06:18.56 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.244) |
| 06:20.32 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@81-237-230-160-no83.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 06:20.49 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 06:25.09 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_ (n=thomasg@p57AFF4A4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:26.30 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 06:32.44 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 06:44.01 | *** join/#openmoko bernt (n=bernt@dslb-084-061-244-093.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 06:46.52 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@63.201.14.174) |
| 06:57.44 | SpeedEvil | has snow! |
| 06:57.58 | SpeedEvil | And more oddly, a GPS lock from cold indoors. |
| 07:10.16 | SpeedEvil | http://b3ta.com/questions/diy/post137479 |
| 07:12.19 | CM | Hehe |
| 07:13.30 | SpeedEvil | ponders. |
| 07:13.39 | SpeedEvil | I should really try to get GPRS working again. |
| 07:14.07 | CM | I should really try to get usb networking working again |
| 07:14.17 | CM | No clue why that stopped working :( |
| 07:15.42 | SpeedEvil | Works for me. |
| 07:15.55 | SpeedEvil | That's the one thing that's never broken. |
| 07:16.15 | CM | It worked for about 6 months for me |
| 07:18.42 | SpeedEvil | http://www.three.co.uk/personal/products_services_/mobile_broadband_/detail.omp Insane. 'broadband casual'. 1 pound a megabyte and no allowance. And on a device that can do a megabyte in a couple of seconds... |
| 07:21.42 | *** join/#openmoko rtm (n=rtm@pool-68-160-2-36.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 07:28.24 | doc|home | mickey|ouch |
| 07:28.26 | doc|home | er, ouch |
| 07:28.32 | doc|home | stupid tab complete |
| 07:28.45 | doc|home | although we pay a dollar a megabyte here :/ |
| 07:31.20 | doc|home | actually, my mistake, it's Unlimited e-mails with most popular domains + 2 MB of surfing: $15 per month and $10 per additional MB |
| 07:31.51 | SpeedEvil | $10! |
| 07:31.54 | SpeedEvil | Wow. |
| 07:32.02 | SpeedEvil | Is that on GPRS? |
| 07:32.55 | doc|home | yeah |
| 07:33.39 | doc|home | see, what they've done is shoot themselves in the foot, if we had some of the better plans, similar to what they have in the UK, I'd be prepared to give them my money, but instead my money's going to whatever the closest cafe with free wifi is |
| 07:34.21 | doc|home | I then get the added advantage of a) warm cafe b) coffee c) cute cafe girls |
| 07:34.35 | rtm | doc: WHo's your service provider? |
| 07:34.43 | mwester | a & b, yes. Not so much c here... |
| 07:34.46 | doc|home | rtm: fido.ca |
| 07:34.56 | doc|home | mwester: you need to try different cafes :) |
| 07:37.19 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@130.216.42.69) |
| 07:38.01 | bernt | Can somebody help me with qemu-neo1973? I have changed the scripts for gta02, but the openmoko/flash.sh does not work. Giving much errors like "s3c_nand_read: Bad register 0x20" |
| 07:45.13 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 07:48.28 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 07:50.37 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 07:50.39 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 07:51.47 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host6-212-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 07:51.48 | *** join/#openmoko josch (n=josch@p57AD4F24.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:52.18 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-21.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 07:53.53 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 07:55.15 | ScaredyCat | slaps dircproxy |
| 07:55.27 | josch | ScaredyCat, you use dircproxy? |
| 07:55.38 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 07:55.54 | ScaredyCat | v useful |
| 07:56.26 | josch | is there an easy howto how i can configure it? i expected it running as an /etc/init.d script with a conf in /etc but nothing... |
| 07:56.54 | ScaredyCat | errm , yeah 1 sec |
| 07:57.03 | josch | thx! |
| 07:57.03 | *** join/#openmoko kaoul (n=kaoul@lns-bzn-60-82-254-230-159.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 07:57.40 | kaoul | hello |
| 07:57.47 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@kensentme.xs4all.nl) |
| 07:59.54 | kaoul | I'm trying to run GTA02 with MokoMakefile. I already have GTA01 running but I don't understand how to "patch the kernel" to have GTA02 running. In advance, thank you very much. |
| 08:00.41 | *** join/#openmoko elation (i=elation@gateway/tor/x-ccc691870a3dc0ad) |
| 08:01.08 | josch | kaoul, if you use the makefile everything is done automagically for you |
| 08:01.16 | josch | this includes patching and compiling kernel |
| 08:02.02 | kaoul | Oh nice, I didn't understand that so, I just have to replace -M gta01 with -M gta02fake in the Makefile .PHONY: run-qemu subsection ? |
| 08:02.12 | *** join/#openmoko ahven (n=kala@194.126.113.157) |
| 08:03.05 | ScaredyCat | gah! can't find the doc I used josch - but it's trivial once you 'get it' |
| 08:03.19 | josch | hehe |
| 08:03.27 | josch | how did you set it up? |
| 08:03.30 | josch | using inetd? |
| 08:04.06 | ScaredyCat | no I run as a user |
| 08:05.57 | ScaredyCat | I can't imagine it's too hard though... I'v just never bothered... |
| 08:06.50 | kaoul | josch: Thanks for your answer, I replaced gta01 with gta02fake and QEMU have "freezed" at slapscreen "Please wait" with message "modem_gsm_ops: SMS number 20 requested" 10 minutes ago, is this normal ? |
| 08:07.02 | kaoul | *splashscreen |
| 08:07.28 | josch | dont know - my qemu times are nearly a year back now |
| 08:07.49 | kaoul | ok thanks |
| 08:09.17 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 08:09.42 | ScaredyCat | finds a bug in dircproxy |
| 08:10.08 | josch | ScaredyCat should report this bug in the dircproxy trac |
| 08:10.31 | ScaredyCat | I need to debug it a bit more first |
| 08:17.51 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=shakthim@61.16.248.242) |
| 08:21.21 | ScaredyCat | josch: there should be a README.inetd |
| 08:21.26 | kaoul | How do I get another keyboard than qwerty in Qemu ? |
| 08:25.40 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@dsl4E5CDD53.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 08:26.37 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178205049.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 08:26.55 | *** join/#openmoko eth01 (i=eth01@gentoo/user/eth01) |
| 08:30.51 | ScaredyCat | .. |
| 08:31.27 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@78-22-5-158.access.telenet.be) |
| 08:33.32 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-77-106-248.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 08:34.32 | rtm | Will the glamo chip in the Freerunner be useful for anything besides video playback? |
| 08:34.53 | CM | if even that.. |
| 08:34.55 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 08:35.01 | CM | Seems like a crappy chip |
| 08:35.50 | rtm | I can't tell if the chip is crappy, because the manufacturer doesn't seem to have seen fit to put any real information on the net. |
| 08:36.40 | *** join/#openmoko cyrilRomain (n=cyrilRom@AToulouse-157-1-66-155.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:38.19 | rtm | CM: How do you know it's a crappy chip? |
| 08:42.14 | *** join/#openmoko grummel (n=grummel@p5B16CA50.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:43.50 | SpeedEvil | rtm: Put it this way - the person writing the driver has said that without it - most things would be faster. |
| 08:44.05 | SpeedEvil | Some video playback may be the exception. |
| 08:44.22 | SpeedEvil | The problem is that the video bus is a whole blazing 6 megabytes/second. |
| 08:45.11 | CM | rtm: As SpeedEvil said, raster said it's not really a vga chip, and not built for that either |
| 08:45.13 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 08:45.34 | SpeedEvil | It can just about do VGA. |
| 08:45.37 | CM | It's a shame, but I guess that's the price you have to pay for things to be truly open |
| 08:45.51 | SpeedEvil | In the same way that most geeks can just about run the 6 minute mile. |
| 08:45.57 | CM | Hehe |
| 08:46.28 | ScaredyCat | what? you want me to go outside.... |
| 08:46.31 | ScaredyCat | .. and run... |
| 08:46.33 | ScaredyCat | wtf.. |
| 08:46.52 | ScaredyCat | orders another pizza ;) |
| 08:47.43 | rtm | Is it likely that all hardware on Openmoko phones will always be a bit obsolete because manufacturers will not allow opensource software to be developed for their sexiest chips? |
| 08:49.10 | SpeedEvil | In some ways, yes. |
| 08:49.22 | SpeedEvil | However, note that the glamo does _not_ have open docs. |
| 08:49.33 | SpeedEvil | Which is why raster is all alone working on it. |
| 08:49.47 | SpeedEvil | (well - maybe not alone - but noone outside OM can) |
| 08:49.59 | ScaredyCat | although, he's probably th best person to do that... |
| 08:51.27 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-53-89.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:54.01 | *** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 08:54.04 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 08:55.03 | Kero | trucknumber hopefully >1 |
| 08:55.31 | cb22 | SpeedEvil: and the fun part, that 7mb/s bus is shared with your sd card! |
| 08:56.52 | SpeedEvil | That too. |
| 09:01.30 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 09:03.13 | *** join/#openmoko ccfly (n=ccfly@89.212.76.77) |
| 09:03.30 | ccfly | morning :) |
| 09:13.14 | *** join/#openmoko niclone (n=nicolas@d90-144-16-102.cust.tele2.fr) |
| 09:16.00 | *** join/#openmoko hd (i=jd@unaffiliated/helldragon) |
| 09:24.22 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@pD9E0A8BB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:33.12 | *** join/#openmoko Bubbi (i=Bubbi@90.184.128.67) |
| 09:36.24 | *** join/#openmoko pH5_ (n=ph5@e178249205.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 09:36.36 | kaoul | I don't find information about ssh, it seems to not responding when I do "ssh root@192.168.68.2" but I ping 192.168.68.2. Is it normal that there is no sshd process on the GTA ? |
| 09:37.43 | SpeedEvil | ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 |
| 09:37.50 | SpeedEvil | route add 192.168.0.202 usb0 |
| 09:37.52 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@83.241.45.109) |
| 09:37.55 | SpeedEvil | ssh 192.168.0.202 |
| 09:37.57 | SpeedEvil | and it should work |
| 09:41.56 | rtm | Also, you may find that the ssh bundled with the standard rootfs does not have all the functionality you want. For example, it will not forward X11 displays. There are instructions on how to install a full-function sshd at rwhitby.net . |
| 09:45.24 | mbuf | rtm, ssh -X allows you to forward X11 displays |
| 09:45.25 | SpeedEvil | Just DISPLAY=host:0 and it works though |
| 09:46.12 | rtm | When I tried that with dropbear ssh, it did not work. It did when I installed openssh. |
| 09:46.28 | ScaredyCat | you can install openssh from my repo if you want that |
| 09:47.35 | rtm | Yes, I have installed openssh, and it works like a champ. But I was never able to get the dropbear verison to forward X11. |
| 09:47.54 | ScaredyCat | iirc dropbear wont use keys on outbound connections.... |
| 09:48.30 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak (n=stefreak@frnk-4d0149ae.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 09:51.57 | kaoul | Yes I just see that is a dropbear implementation and not an openssh, curious... And I just see that ssh runs well on the openmoko to the openmoko so it could be a route problem as you said |
| 09:53.51 | SpeedEvil | also - that's not the default address |
| 09:54.11 | SpeedEvil | Are you sure you're simply not pinging your local usb-net interface? |
| 09:54.42 | kaoul | I'm not sure but it's not usb, it's Qemu and ppp over tty |
| 09:55.05 | kaoul | And the moko ping my real machine so... |
| 09:55.14 | *** join/#openmoko flat_ (n=bkaplan@c-98-210-158-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 09:55.32 | kaoul | :/ I already have : |
| 09:55.32 | kaoul | Destination Passerelle Genmask Indic Metric Ref Use Iface192.168.68.2 * 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 ppp0 |
| 09:55.59 | kaoul | Maybe the route on the moko ? |
| 09:56.26 | kaoul | No, it's okay too. I don't understand |
| 09:58.51 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@79.30.212.27) |
| 09:59.03 | kaoul | SpeedEvil: Is there something like a firewall on the GTA which could make things wrong like that ? |
| 09:59.27 | SpeedEvil | Are you trying to talk to it over USB? |
| 09:59.44 | kaoul | no, over tty |
| 09:59.58 | SpeedEvil | why? |
| 10:00.02 | kaoul | it's ppp0 on my computer and ppp0 on the moko |
| 10:00.13 | kaoul | Because it's the only thing I've found on the wiki |
| 10:00.14 | SpeedEvil | why not use usb-net? |
| 10:00.31 | kaoul | because it's a qemu openmoko and I have no phone :) |
| 10:00.38 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 10:00.53 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - I have no idea about qemu. |
| 10:01.06 | kaoul | SpeedEvil: Sorry I'm juste begining to try making a helloworld |
| 10:02.43 | kaoul | SpeedEvil: If it whas on usb, would you have any idea ? Because it seems to be the same |
| 10:02.55 | SpeedEvil | For usb0 you just do the above commands |
| 10:03.01 | kaoul | ok |
| 10:06.47 | *** join/#openmoko flat (n=bkaplan@c-98-210-158-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 10:11.49 | Cap_J_L_Picard | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:12.02 | Cap_J_L_Picard | from mokomakefile? |
| 10:13.22 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 10:13.55 | Cap_J_L_Picard | then it fails... |
| 10:14.00 | ScaredyCat | oh-puzzles don;t work either brcause of that.. |
| 10:14.10 | ScaredyCat | has reported it as a bug |
| 10:14.35 | ccfly | <rtm> Also, you may find that the ssh bundled with the standard rootfs does not have all the functionality you want. For example, it will not forward X11 displays. There are instructions on how to install a full-function sshd at rwhitby.net . |
| 10:14.44 | ccfly | Works with default rootfs |
| 10:17.37 | SpeedEvil | Now - Radio4 - Bletchley park - WWII codebreaking |
| 10:18.02 | *** join/#openmoko flat_ (n=bkaplan@c-98-210-158-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 10:20.45 | SpeedEvil | Includign interviews with those who took part. |
| 10:21.24 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 10:26.15 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 10:29.40 | cb22 | is using two psus to power one pc bad? i have one running my motherboard, and 2x hdds, and another one running 6x hdds |
| 10:29.55 | SpeedEvil | Nope. |
| 10:30.01 | SpeedEvil | As long as you have shared grounds. |
| 10:30.13 | SpeedEvil | If they are both bolted to a case, it'll be fine. |
| 10:30.29 | CoreDump | cb22: nah, that's fine. The shared ground thing is kinda important tho |
| 10:30.35 | kaoul | Is anybody know why I can't ping my real pc from my virtual GTA01 and my virtual GTA01 from my real pc and no application (ssh and webserver tried) works ? |
| 10:30.45 | kaoul | *I can ping (sorry) |
| 10:30.46 | cb22 | yeah, both are fixed to the case, thanks SpeedEvil and CoreDump |
| 10:31.58 | CoreDump | kaoul: could be an active packet filter on your box |
| 10:33.02 | kaoul | CoreDump: If you speak about my pc, yes it's what is thougth, but I have no firewall (or something on mandriva I don't know the existense) |
| 10:33.10 | Cap_J_L_Picard | ScaredyCat: Shall I add to the report that libsvahi also needs it? |
| 10:33.31 | ScaredyCat | yes.. might be a good move |
| 10:33.38 | CoreDump | kaoul: AFAIK mandriva ships with a default "firewall" |
| 10:34.01 | ScaredyCat | iirc mickey|zzZZzz said that it was a deliberate removal, so I guess we need it back :) |
| 10:34.06 | kaoul | CoreDump: Yes thank you but I disabled this one... |
| 10:34.12 | Cap_J_L_Picard | ScaredyCat: yeah |
| 10:34.21 | Cap_J_L_Picard | ScaredyCat: when so much requires it... |
| 10:34.44 | CoreDump | kaoul: please pastebin the output of "iptables -Lv" |
| 10:35.31 | ScaredyCat | Cap_J_L_Picard: dunno... does seem odd... but hey.. |
| 10:36.05 | kaoul | CoreDump: iptables: No chain/target/match by that name |
| 10:36.14 | Cap_J_L_Picard | ScaredyCat: There is probably an ./configure --disable-... parameter to fix this... |
| 10:36.27 | Cap_J_L_Picard | if I put it in right bb file |
| 10:36.41 | CoreDump | kaoul: "iptables -vL" ssorry |
| 10:36.57 | Cap_J_L_Picard | but wouldn't help with packages that have it as a core dependency... |
| 10:39.43 | kaoul | CoreDump: Seems to be anything http://pastebin.com/d7f035bda |
| 10:40.24 | CoreDump | kaoul: right, was worth a try tho |
| 10:41.00 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A5613B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:41.02 | kaoul | CoreDump: And I set some "obscur security tools" of mandriva to "Very bad security" so It not seem to be a security problem (on my pc) |
| 10:41.42 | kaoul | CoreDump: My route seems okay too, I don't understand |
| 10:42.11 | CoreDump | if you can ping but can't reach any ports that is strange indeed |
| 10:42.34 | CoreDump | ahem |
| 10:42.47 | kaoul | CoreDump: note that nmap freeze (like ssh) and on openmoko I have a blanc page when i browse my pc apache server |
| 10:42.59 | CoreDump | is it possible that some "downed" interface has the same IP than the neo? |
| 10:43.06 | kaoul | i don't understand ahem |
| 10:43.29 | CoreDump | ifconfig -a would tell |
| 10:43.38 | kaoul | i already change to IP from 192.168.68.2 to 10.0.0.2 |
| 10:44.54 | kaoul | so it's very strange |
| 10:45.09 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@81-208-83-247.fastres.net) |
| 10:45.35 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-178-019.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:46.04 | kaoul | CoreDump: http://pastebin.com/d5d998a67 |
| 10:46.43 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 10:47.14 | kaoul | CoreDump: there is no packet filter or firewall on openmoko isn't it ? |
| 10:48.05 | CoreDump | not to my knowledge, no |
| 10:48.12 | CoreDump | isout of ideads |
| 10:48.15 | CoreDump | *ideas |
| 10:49.42 | Cap_J_L_Picard | It could be the very bad mandriva security settings |
| 10:49.54 | cb22 | abraxa_: are there screenshots of your mediaplayer up somewhere? i cant seem to find them... |
| 10:50.05 | kaoul | no i already change this from "high" to "very bad" |
| 10:50.06 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-255-113.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:52.01 | Cap_J_L_Picard | Pastebin has errors, not dropped packets... |
| 10:52.34 | kaoul | yes I saw that but I don't know what is it |
| 10:53.22 | kaoul | hey I know what is it now : it's my failed tentatives with ssh root@10.0.0.2 :( |
| 10:53.59 | *** join/#openmoko flat (n=bkaplan@unaffiliated/flat) |
| 10:55.42 | kaoul | is there someone who tried openmoko on Qemu like me ? |
| 10:56.26 | Cap_J_L_Picard | kaoul: Ages ago... |
| 10:56.57 | Cap_J_L_Picard | I'm soon about to try again, however have a slight glitch building the devel image. |
| 10:57.38 | kaoul | Cap_J_L_Picard: I don't know exactly what I do, I use MokoMakefile |
| 10:58.26 | kaoul | Cap_J_L_Picard: with mokomakefile ? |
| 10:58.38 | Cap_J_L_Picard | kaoul: yes |
| 10:58.43 | kaoul | ah |
| 10:58.49 | kaoul | Cap_J_L_Picard: did you tried the ssh... ages age ? |
| 10:58.51 | kaoul | *ago |
| 10:59.00 | Cap_J_L_Picard | kaoul: make openmoko-devel-image not working... |
| 10:59.38 | Cap_J_L_Picard | kaoul: urm, yes, but it was largely incompatible between kernels back then... |
| 11:00.29 | thos | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:00.33 | thos | hah |
| 11:00.38 | kaoul | Cap_J_L_Picard: Could I help you by sending you my qemu image ? |
| 11:00.44 | kaoul | Cap_J_L_Picard: (340 mo) |
| 11:02.01 | Cap_J_L_Picard | kaoul: urm... |
| 11:02.17 | Cap_J_L_Picard | kaoul: slow net, why it so big? |
| 11:02.43 | kaoul | I don't know, do you need a special file to get ready ? |
| 11:03.08 | kaoul | Cap_J_L_Picard: Don't foreget i'm a newbie |
| 11:04.43 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X14ba.x.pppool.de) |
| 11:06.13 | *** join/#openmoko flat_ (n=bkaplan@c-98-210-158-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 11:06.46 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=marex@gwfm10-3-250.802.cz) |
| 11:07.57 | *** join/#openmoko grummel_ (n=grummel@p5B16F110.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:16.48 | *** join/#openmoko pH5_ (n=ph5@e178195247.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:18.58 | CIA-41 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r143 10/trunk/software/py-odeviced/ (TODO modules/idlenotifier.py): py-odeviced: update TODO |
| 11:19.46 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic_ (i=tronic@dsl-tkubras1-ff30c300-158.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:21.01 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@p54BC4FB5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:28.40 | abraxa_ | summatusmentis: Yeah, here now. What's up? |
| 11:30.27 | abraxa_ | cb: http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/37946ff00398eee25523b18ede73c772.png is one - there were more on scap but they fell out of the listing |
| 11:30.36 | abraxa_ | cb22, I mean |
| 11:31.07 | univac | nice song ;] |
| 11:31.53 | abraxa_ | hehe |
| 11:32.06 | mickeyl | one of the best OM programs |
| 11:32.10 | mickeyl | "it just works" |
| 11:32.37 | ScaredyCat | points mickeyl at the irc logs... |
| 11:32.39 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 11:32.51 | mickeyl | ssp? |
| 11:32.56 | ScaredyCat | no... |
| 11:33.12 | ScaredyCat | abraxa_ is not working on that app anymore :'( |
| 11:33.19 | mickeyl | oh |
| 11:33.22 | mickeyl | well |
| 11:33.34 | mickeyl | that's not too bad |
| 11:33.40 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: Only until I have time for the EFL rewrite ;) |
| 11:33.50 | mickeyl | just what i was about to say |
| 11:33.51 | mickeyl | :D |
| 11:33.56 | abraxa_ | hehe |
| 11:34.17 | ScaredyCat | well, yes.. but then... we'll be expected to rung the efl stuff without it... wont we ... |
| 11:34.46 | abraxa_ | rung? |
| 11:34.52 | ScaredyCat | run |
| 11:34.55 | ScaredyCat | + g |
| 11:34.58 | ScaredyCat | :P |
| 11:35.18 | abraxa_ | "we'll be to expected to run the efl stuff without [the media player]"? |
| 11:35.26 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 11:35.47 | ScaredyCat | you must be spending too much time killing kittens... |
| 11:35.48 | abraxa_ | Until it's written, you mean? *looks confused* |
| 11:35.49 | ScaredyCat | ;) |
| 11:35.54 | abraxa_ | rofl. |
| 11:36.00 | abraxa_ | ;) |
| 11:37.12 | abraxa_ | Well, I honestly didn't understand what you meant with that statement before - I blame the time |
| 11:37.21 | abraxa_ | (UTC+1) |
| 11:37.33 | *** join/#openmoko saurabh1403 (n=saurabhg@59.178.32.254) |
| 11:37.46 | ScaredyCat | 13:36 and you're still sleept? |
| 11:37.46 | saurabh1403 | hello |
| 11:37.48 | ScaredyCat | sleepy? |
| 11:38.13 | abraxa_ | It was 1337 here for me at the time of the writing |
| 11:38.21 | abraxa_ | I'm not leet enough :) |
| 11:38.23 | ScaredyCat | oh... |
| 11:38.44 | ScaredyCat | UTC+1+ 35 then ;) |
| 11:38.54 | ScaredyCat | 35s |
| 11:38.58 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 11:39.23 | *** join/#openmoko flat (n=bkaplan@unaffiliated/flat) |
| 11:40.00 | ScaredyCat | what I meant was, unless you write it prior to the efl builds, we wont have one until you do.. |
| 11:42.31 | abraxa_ | Oh |
| 11:43.00 | abraxa_ | Well... that should be no big problem |
| 11:43.49 | saurabh1403 | Hello everyone, |
| 11:43.51 | abraxa_ | The EFL build won't be done anytime soon anyway and I'll start with the player once the PIM infrastructure is usable enough to allow GUI developers to start |
| 11:44.05 | saurabh1403 | i am a student aspirant for GSoC open moko development |
| 11:44.09 | abraxa_ | From that point on I'll continue on PIM but start on the media player as well |
| 11:44.18 | abraxa_ | Hello saurabh1403 |
| 11:44.34 | SpeedEvil | saurabh1403: considering what? |
| 11:44.36 | saurabh1403 | i have submitted my application for GPS or AGPS interfacing with open moko phones. |
| 11:45.08 | emdete | saurabh1403: what is this? |
| 11:45.26 | saurabh1403 | i am planning to build applications using GPS data like Location based reminders,Community based traffic information,Intimation of popular places which are pre fed in the phone for corresponding locations etc |
| 11:45.58 | saurabh1403 | Distance Calculation using GPS, Rescue purposes and emergency calls and many more attractive feaures can be added |
| 11:46.07 | emdete | saurabh1403: so what special agps thing did you mean? |
| 11:46.12 | SpeedEvil | have you looked at catefory:gps on the wiki? |
| 11:46.38 | saurabh1403 | i have seen the GPS wiki page of open moko |
| 11:46.51 | SpeedEvil | All the pages on the GPS category? |
| 11:46.54 | saurabh1403 | i went through the wish list and i have my own ideas |
| 11:47.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1319 has been created by mickey(AT)openmoko.org |
| 11:47.02 | cdbot2 | * * sysfs RTC class device missing wakealarm capability |
| 11:47.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1319 |
| 11:47.39 | saurabh1403 | yes, quite some pages which are present in the open moko wiki |
| 11:48.08 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host81-151-104-228.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:48.08 | saurabh1403 | i want to implement these applications in open moko platform |
| 11:48.23 | SpeedEvil | Looked at the openstreetmap related ones? |
| 11:48.38 | zedstar | saurabhl403 i recommend reading up on dbus |
| 11:50.41 | saurabh1403 | i did see something on dbus , but will it be a more versatile project at this summer. i want to know the views of the mentors so that i can proceed in that direction. |
| 11:51.39 | zedstar | there are quite a few dbus projects already so i would start by looking at what is missing or how to integrate them |
| 11:52.04 | mickeyl | this project sounds like basing on geoclue and OSM would be a good idea |
| 11:53.22 | *** join/#openmoko cedric (n=cedric@enlightenment/developer/cedric) |
| 11:53.35 | zedstar | if u interested in distance calculating for example i have done a dbus server for that....there dbus daemons for getting location etc |
| 11:54.06 | saurabh1403 | ok if this is the case then i have no problem in going for dbus interfacing. i also read about the mail on open moko list from john |
| 11:54.06 | zedstar | geoclue as mickeyl says |
| 11:54.28 | zedstar | yeh that is me saurabhl |
| 11:55.28 | saurabh1403 | ok, so can u please tell me in some details on how to go for it..i think i will generate interest in it |
| 11:55.50 | zedstar | as i say first have a look at dbus and see if u can write clients |
| 11:56.02 | zedstar | also have a look what is done |
| 11:56.47 | saurabh1403 | ok, and can i know what is the programming language for writing cliets |
| 11:57.19 | zedstar | what languages do u know? |
| 11:57.21 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru_ (n=geaaru@87.8.213.248) |
| 11:57.49 | saurabh1403 | assembly, C, C++, python,VHDL,etc |
| 11:58.06 | SpeedEvil | There IS NO FPGA! |
| 11:58.08 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 11:59.23 | saurabh1403 | ya i know but it is given in the hardware wishlist about the FPGA interfacing also. like interfacing with spartan -3AN from xilinx |
| 11:59.33 | zedstar | saurabhl well C or python seem popular |
| 11:59.34 | SpeedEvil | Unlikely to happen ever. |
| 11:59.42 | SpeedEvil | IMO. |
| 11:59.53 | saurabh1403 | ok sir |
| 11:59.55 | saurabh1403 | thank you |
| 12:00.44 | zedstar | saurabh if u want to try some client stuff out just let me know and i could probably assist......i not a mentor though so u that is something else u need to find |
| 12:01.27 | saurabh1403 | ok |
| 12:02.29 | zedstar | arent the applications due in very soon? |
| 12:04.06 | mickeyl | yes, in a couple of hours |
| 12:04.55 | CIA-41 | freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r144 10/trunk/software/pyneod/ (Makefile pyneod.ini pypppd.py): |
| 12:04.55 | CIA-41 | freesmartphone.org: simplify connect/disconnect scripts |
| 12:04.55 | CIA-41 | freesmartphone.org: initialize secret files for pppd's chap/pap |
| 12:05.17 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:05.45 | saurabh1403 | may i know that is there any mentor interested in GPS interfacing or Dbus one. |
| 12:06.07 | zedstar | i imagine a few people submitting in these areas |
| 12:06.10 | saurabh1403 | i think i have a lot of plans and interest in that field |
| 12:06.44 | emdete | saurabh1403: everyone has :D |
| 12:06.57 | saurabh1403 | oh yes.. |
| 12:07.05 | zedstar | a lot of the GPS ideas go round in circles |
| 12:07.12 | *** join/#openmoko flat (n=bkaplan@unaffiliated/flat) |
| 12:07.28 | zedstar | same things cropping up all the time |
| 12:08.35 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 12:09.26 | saurabh1403 | ya, i can see that. also i didn't apply for accelerometer interfacing after reading Micheal M mail that they have already many applications on that. but i want to know about any other special requirement for GPS bcoz i have done projects in GPS interfacing and it matches my interest also |
| 12:10.06 | zedstar | i think what is important to examine all the ways of getting location eg not just from a GPS....hence geoclue |
| 12:10.30 | saurabh1403 | ok |
| 12:10.39 | zedstar | GPS just does not work how much people think when they post their ideas |
| 12:13.40 | zedstar | if u wanna stand out in the street and look at a map fine...if u want something more pervasive u gonna need to be a bit more creative |
| 12:14.44 | Tronic_ | is quite happy on how well the GPS works. |
| 12:16.33 | zedstar | tronic im not saying the GPS does not work |
| 12:16.48 | zedstar | infact it is pretty nice in the Neo |
| 12:17.01 | zedstar | my N810 takes ages to fix in comparison |
| 12:17.06 | saurabh1403 | ok |
| 12:17.28 | zedstar | try leaving your GPS on 10 hours and inside buildings |
| 12:17.29 | mickeyl | (actually, gsoc deadline is in 36h) |
| 12:17.33 | mickeyl | waves to abraxa_ |
| 12:17.37 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 12:18.16 | Tronic_ | zedstar: GPS usually does not work at all indoors, but so what? What am I gonne use it there for, indoor navigation? |
| 12:18.37 | *** join/#openmoko flat_ (n=bkaplan@c-98-210-158-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 12:18.39 | Tronic_ | It can remember the last known position, right outside the building. |
| 12:19.47 | zedstar | tronic well that model is still not very practical for general use for these pervasive apps |
| 12:19.58 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrodf (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26) |
| 12:21.19 | zedstar | but my all means implement that it would be interesting |
| 12:22.05 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@208.84-48-176.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:23.08 | CIA-41 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickeyl * r145 10/trunk/software/py-odeviced/modules/ (idlenotifier.py kernel26.py powercontrol-neo.py): py-odeviced: add basic RTC support to kernel26 plugin |
| 12:23.41 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@124-171-142-63.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:25.12 | *** join/#openmoko flat (n=bkaplan@c-98-210-158-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 12:25.59 | zedstar | would u just leave the gps running when u go inside the building? |
| 12:27.18 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@78-22-5-158.access.telenet.be) |
| 12:28.10 | CoreDump | believes that would be a waste of battery 95% of the time |
| 12:28.27 | Tronic_ | I usually have my GPS on 24/7. |
| 12:28.27 | zedstar | believes so also |
| 12:28.33 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-236-225.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:28.48 | Tronic_ | Mostly because it uses very little power and partly also because the power button is difficult to press. |
| 12:28.48 | madwoota | why would you need gps 24/7? |
| 12:29.06 | Tronic_ | (got the Nokia GPS dongle, not Neo) |
| 12:29.36 | abraxa_ | zedstar: That's where the accelerometers come into play. When the Neo notices that it is moved it can have the GPS check for a position change |
| 12:30.07 | zedstar | abraxa: ok this is what i am getting at |
| 12:30.21 | zedstar | need to know when to turn back on |
| 12:30.27 | Tronic_ | abraxa_: But I keep my phone in the pocket all the time, so it is moving all the time... |
| 12:30.38 | Tronic_ | ... except when it is sitting on a table, attached to the charger. |
| 12:31.39 | *** join/#openmoko adamblokus (n=adam@chello087206115169.chello.pl) |
| 12:31.42 | Tronic_ | Btw, how much power does the accelerometer and its software (the one that monitors it and turns on the GPS) use, then? |
| 12:31.44 | abraxa_ | Tronic_: Guess that means it'll also have to check periodically then |
| 12:32.27 | zedstar | the point i was kinda making was we need some creative ideas not just "I have GPS" |
| 12:32.42 | zedstar | so hopefully some GSOC did this |
| 12:33.15 | Tronic_ | IMO what we need now is a working implementation of what Nokia already does well, instead of any creative new ideas. |
| 12:33.31 | abraxa_ | Tronic_: What is it that Nokia does well? |
| 12:35.33 | Tronic_ | abraxa_: A phone (phonebook w/ voice control, text messages w/ T9, generally a good UI, multitasking), a music player (with OggPlay), a web browser (yes, it is fairly good) and navigation (Nokia Maps is by far the best navigation application that I have seen). |
| 12:35.52 | zedstar | sighs |
| 12:36.05 | abraxa_ | Ah, you mean a smartphone stack+apps in general |
| 12:36.12 | abraxa_ | I thought you meant GPS-related stuff |
| 12:36.28 | Tronic_ | In general, yes. It is OpenMoko development that we are talking, right? |
| 12:36.39 | Tronic_ | Anyway, navigation is a part of that now (Nokia Maps!). |
| 12:38.20 | Tronic_ | Google Earth style zooming and panning with effective LOD (so that it can run a phone without getting too slow). Finding placenames by just typing on the map screen (instead of having to use some menu). Good route finding algorithm. |
| 12:38.21 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree (n=df@222.70.93.78) |
| 12:38.40 | Tronic_ | You know, all those little UI details that are needed for it to be useful. |
| 12:39.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1320 has been created by fr-om(AT)tourde.org |
| 12:39.02 | cdbot2 | * * filename wildcard error on env file for rootfs |
| 12:39.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1320 |
| 12:39.21 | abraxa_ | Tronic_: Any idea what card material Nokia Maps uses and if they pay license fees? |
| 12:39.24 | Kero | *UI* details? |
| 12:39.27 | *** join/#openmoko kuzgun (n=deniz@unaffiliated/kuzgun) |
| 12:39.45 | Kero | they're details throughout the entire stack, I think. |
| 12:39.51 | Tronic_ | Kero: Yes, like being able to type the placenames, and having smooth transitions. |
| 12:40.24 | zedstar | on the N810 nokia bundle wayfinder which u need to pay for direction type navigation.....it is nice but way to expensive IMO |
| 12:40.26 | Kero | ok, things like that are only/mostly in the ui |
| 12:40.38 | Tronic_ | abraxa_: They use the same that pretty much everybody else, too (can't remember the name, but I can look it up if you want). |
| 12:41.54 | Tronic_ | abraxa_: While the software itself is free, the navigation features is subscription-based (and easy to pay for directly from the application). |
| 12:42.49 | *** join/#openmoko flat____ (n=bkaplan@c-98-210-158-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 12:43.46 | Tronic_ | zedstar: Not that expensive, actually. I think I could easily save it back in saved gas and especially in saved time (at least now when I just moved to a large city that I am not quite familiar with). |
| 12:44.30 | zedstar | well subscription is greedy IMO... nokia could subsidise the application on the device when u buy it with one off cost |
| 12:45.30 | zedstar | but if there is a market for it well fair enough |
| 12:46.23 | *** join/#openmoko elation_station (i=elation@gateway/tor/x-930b2ffabc8a841d) |
| 12:46.32 | Tronic_ | zedstar: Pay for use is better, IMO. |
| 12:48.10 | zedstar | i used to have tomtom on my palm and that did a similar job with a one off cost |
| 12:48.39 | zedstar | i think u shud pay the american military for GPS use while u are at it |
| 12:50.58 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=federico@cb22.za.net) |
| 12:52.54 | Tronic_ | zedstar: Well, EU is on a good pace heading for commercializing the position data (the Galileo project). |
| 12:53.49 | zedstar | tronic something else for u to subscribe to ;) |
| 12:54.03 | Cap_J_L_Picard | Tronic_: if they ever get enough sats up there. |
| 12:54.04 | Tronic_ | zedstar: Sure, they promise to deliver free access (with less precision and reliability than in the commercial service), but if there were no free alternative (GPS), do you think they would? |
| 12:54.45 | Tronic_ | Well, in general I don't have a problem with paying for services that I use. |
| 12:54.52 | Tronic_ | Unlike many others seem to have... |
| 12:55.30 | Tronic_ | I do have a problem with paying significant amounts for services that I don't use and that don't benefit me (indirectly at least). |
| 12:58.09 | Tronic_ | E.g. if there were a good OSM navigation app, I would not want to pay for the Nokia Maps app when buying the N95, if I wouldn't actually use it. |
| 12:58.46 | Tronic_ | On my area the OSM map data is already better than the commercial one used by others. |
| 13:02.13 | *** join/#openmoko jeffdameth (n=jeff@host-091-096-146-132.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 13:06.19 | *** join/#openmoko jamewill (n=jamewill@79-67-147-173.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 13:06.49 | abraxa_ | Tronic_: " I do have a problem with paying significant amounts for services that I don't use and that don't benefit me" - Windows on retail laptops, for example ;) |
| 13:08.11 | *** join/#openmoko Quadduc (n=stian@90.149.198.188) |
| 13:11.35 | *** join/#openmoko sunny (n=saurabhg@59.178.32.254) |
| 13:12.13 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@adsl-75-62-4-13.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) |
| 13:15.26 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (n=fsteinel@pD9FBC07B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:15.36 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 13:15.43 | SpeedEvil | hates that. |
| 13:21.44 | Tronic_ | abraxa_: Definitely. And I have to pay even more to get the same laptop without Windows. |
| 13:24.53 | *** join/#openmoko _fletch (n=fletch@schmu.firma.cc) |
| 13:28.06 | CIA-41 | openmoko: 03andrew * r4311 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/ (download.sh env): Accept OpenMoko or Openmoko or whatever the case du jour in filenames. |
| 13:38.12 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@dsl4E5CDD53.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 14:03.05 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@dsbg-4db7c05a.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 14:08.19 | kaoul | Does anybody use Qemu openmoko not in qwerty ? |
| 14:14.53 | *** join/#openmoko suuuper (n=suuuper@ppp-55-178.32-151.iol.it) |
| 14:22.37 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 14:23.10 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 14:24.06 | SpeedEvil | Anyone done the A2DP thing with bluetooth headphones? |
| 14:27.12 | mwester | I tried, but it was a long time ago (and didnt' work) |
| 14:27.15 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrod (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26) |
| 14:27.49 | SpeedEvil | What's the general idea - something fakes an alsa device? |
| 14:32.49 | kaoul | For information : I just spend many hours to find why I can't ssh between linux and openmoko on qemu by ppp. It was that the compression protocol negociation failed ! Just add "noccp" to pppd on openmoko and your linux machine, it works ! |
| 14:34.11 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176098208.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:34.45 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E15807.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:35.37 | abraxa_ | kaoul: Add it to the wiki at an appropriate place, please :) |
| 14:35.52 | kaoul | abraxa_: I'm registring right now ;-) |
| 14:36.01 | abraxa_ | Thanks! |
| 14:36.57 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:37.49 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@ap164169.wlan.jku.at) |
| 14:39.14 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:39.25 | *** join/#openmoko pabs3 (n=pabs@d122-105-78-204.per9.wa.optusnet.com.au) |
| 14:40.38 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:50.47 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@166.129.210.76) |
| 14:53.47 | *** join/#openmoko lzy-- (n=lzy@ssh.zuso.tw) |
| 14:58.24 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@kensentme.xs4all.nl) |
| 15:00.21 | *** part/#openmoko rcxdude (n=rcxdude@host86-147-87-6.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:02.12 | *** join/#openmoko averageidiot (n=fabian@p50823506.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:05.36 | *** join/#openmoko wipf (n=wipf@dslb-084-057-240-052.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:07.58 | *** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=TAsn@89.1.218.88.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 15:10.09 | *** join/#openmoko dassouki (n=dassouki@CPE00195b5fe49c-CM001947481a3a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 15:14.11 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@82.201.178.99) |
| 15:15.08 | dassouki | hey everyone, what are the alternative linux/os i can put on my hp PDA. all i want is to access the Internet, skype, and some form of an imap email client. |
| 15:17.07 | SpeedEvil | Skype is a killer. |
| 15:17.18 | SpeedEvil | Skype only release binaries, not source. |
| 15:17.29 | abraxa_ | Skype is still x86 only, right? |
| 15:17.42 | dassouki | um skype runs on my wm5 |
| 15:17.44 | SpeedEvil | I think they've released for a very limted number of other platforms |
| 15:17.50 | CVirus | dassouki: wm5 ? |
| 15:17.52 | SpeedEvil | but it's derfinately binary only |
| 15:17.55 | dassouki | windows mobile 5 |
| 15:18.00 | CVirus | dassouki: you're an arab ? |
| 15:18.02 | abraxa_ | WinMobile |
| 15:18.09 | SpeedEvil | So, won't run on most platforms unless you put it in qemu. |
| 15:18.11 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 15:18.14 | dassouki | CVirus, ya but what does that have to do with the convo ? |
| 15:18.23 | CVirus | dassouki: your nickname sounds arab |
| 15:18.24 | SpeedEvil | Or qemu+wine |
| 15:18.26 | CVirus | dassouki: where are you from ? |
| 15:18.45 | CVirus | dassouki: enta meneen ? |
| 15:18.52 | dassouki | CVirus, canada ... i'd like to stay on topic :D |
| 15:19.23 | *** part/#openmoko kaoul (n=kaoul@lns-bzn-60-82-254-230-159.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 15:19.40 | dassouki | so in other words i'm better off sticking to my windows mobile for now? |
| 15:19.53 | SpeedEvil | Well - only you can answer that. |
| 15:20.00 | zedstar | the nokia tablet skype client is ok |
| 15:20.10 | SpeedEvil | But skype has chosen not to release their program for other architectures. |
| 15:20.18 | *** join/#openmoko wildfire` (n=wildfire@203.7.227.146) |
| 15:20.25 | CVirus | are we getting a SIP phone for OM ? |
| 15:20.27 | zedstar | so does run on ARM but no source of course |
| 15:20.55 | CVirus | dassouki: I wonder from what country are you originally from ? |
| 15:21.23 | dassouki | CVirus, lebanon |
| 15:21.30 | CVirus | dassouki: ana masry :-) |
| 15:21.35 | CVirus | dassouki: pleased to meet you |
| 15:21.40 | dassouki | nice too meet u too... |
| 15:21.42 | *** join/#openmoko ixian_probe (n=ixian@131.80-203-36.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:21.59 | dassouki | zedstar, i'm happy with a sourceless working skype on linux |
| 15:22.08 | *** join/#openmoko moko-bunny (n=reik@CPE-76-178-148-218.natnow.res.rr.com) |
| 15:22.34 | CVirus | what protocol does skype use ? |
| 15:22.46 | zedstar | dassouki the nokia tablet is linux |
| 15:22.57 | CVirus | Maemo that is |
| 15:23.45 | zedstar | proprietary voip i imagine |
| 15:23.45 | CVirus | lame |
| 15:24.45 | zedstar | and there are rumours google gonna buy skype! |
| 15:25.09 | ixian_probe | zedstar: there are always rumors ;) |
| 15:25.49 | zedstar | ixian keeps us chatting :) |
| 15:25.51 | dassouki | maemo only works on nokia though right ? |
| 15:26.03 | dassouki | i'd like for something to work on my hp pda haha |
| 15:26.53 | *** join/#openmoko _ken_ (n=user@84.92.70.37) |
| 15:27.47 | ixian_probe | zedstar: mhm ^_^ |
| 15:27.50 | zedstar | dassouki id imagine maemo only runs on nokia kit as there are closed source components to it |
| 15:27.52 | CVirus | dassouki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPAQ#Alternative_operating_systems_for_the_iPAQ |
| 15:30.23 | dassouki | CVirus, thanks. zedstar ya it seems that way doesn't it |
| 15:33.51 | dassouki | it seems that development on these alternatives halted around 06/07 |
| 15:34.47 | zedstar | it wont solve your skype issue tho anyway |
| 15:35.22 | *** join/#openmoko baird- (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 15:37.47 | dassouki | it will be interesting to see if someone has stripped down the OS to just internet explorer, and skype. that'll solve so many resource problems |
| 15:38.17 | CVirus | dassouki: Angstrom is still being maintained as far as I know |
| 15:38.57 | dassouki | ya i noticed that, but my ipaq model is not supported |
| 15:39.03 | CVirus | I see |
| 15:39.57 | dassouki | it is also odd that they don't provide any screen shots, a bit foolish |
| 15:40.13 | *** join/#openmoko Varox_NB (n=doug@p4FD4586C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:41.01 | *** join/#openmoko Deniz__ (n=deniz@212.156.217.162) |
| 15:41.15 | CVirus | Opie looks nice http://opie.handhelds.org/gallery/main.php/v/opie10a/ipaq/ |
| 15:42.54 | dassouki | CVirus, u think? i don't know, windows mobile is a bit sexier than opie. it would've been nice if tehre were bery/ compiz for linux mobile os |
| 15:43.26 | CVirus | dassouki: did you try OM ? |
| 15:44.05 | dassouki | openmoko? |
| 15:44.20 | CVirus | yup |
| 15:44.35 | dassouki | i thought it only worked on openmoko hardware |
| 15:44.46 | CVirus | not necessary |
| 15:45.49 | CVirus | port it :-) |
| 15:46.03 | *** join/#openmoko ashish (i=d2d43dfb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b8c9978a5eb38b11) |
| 15:49.12 | *** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 15:49.15 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 15:50.22 | *** join/#openmoko xcasex (n=rrg@ua-83-227-156-234.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 15:51.35 | *** part/#openmoko dassouki (n=dassouki@CPE00195b5fe49c-CM001947481a3a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 15:52.07 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-53-89.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:52.50 | *** join/#openmoko p3t3r__ (n=p3t3r__@gate1.net-you.de) |
| 15:54.43 | *** join/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=sschmidt@sicherheitsschwankung.de) |
| 15:57.46 | playya | hi |
| 15:58.14 | playya | which is a nice phone to install openmoko on it? |
| 15:58.20 | playya | the HTCs? |
| 16:06.18 | edistar | playya: e.g. blueangel or motorola a780 |
| 16:07.02 | *** part/#openmoko baird- (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 16:07.08 | playya | ok |
| 16:07.30 | playya | might have a look on the vodafone page if it is cheap enaough for me |
| 16:12.49 | *** join/#openmoko tonyg_ (n=tonyg@91.84.78.92) |
| 16:24.06 | Fradeve | edistar: someone has tested OM on HTC? |
| 16:24.34 | orospakr | so, I'm having an odd problem with my Neo, running an image from a few days ago -- on a call, the other party hears themselves echoed back, but the person on the Neo doesn't notice any echo at all. |
| 16:24.45 | orospakr | Fradeve, yeah, those HTC devices are pretty nice. |
| 16:25.28 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 16:25.44 | Fradeve | orospakr: exactly on which HTC devices it has been tested? |
| 16:25.51 | orospakr | Fradeve, no idea. :( |
| 16:28.33 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-164-221.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:37.10 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@129.84-49-131.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:41.03 | *** join/#openmoko mgregson (n=mgregson@CPE0012170e4053-CM0011e6c7aaa5.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 16:42.16 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 16:46.26 | p3t3r__ | Fradeve: There is a Openmoko image from january available for HTC Universal... Phone calls and SMS work ;) |
| 16:50.11 | *** join/#openmoko edistar__ (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 16:50.17 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 16:51.05 | edistar__ | Fradeve: ask dcordes |
| 16:52.30 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@plc9-214.linzag.net) |
| 16:53.11 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-178-019.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:53.50 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa[AwAy] (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 16:57.21 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 16:59.43 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-58-170-82-200.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 17:00.05 | *** join/#openmoko mboldisc (n=mike@c-66-41-225-167.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 17:00.38 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 17:05.10 | *** join/#openmoko BenO (n=ben@82-69-120-120.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 17:05.13 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 17:08.15 | *** join/#openmoko Moniker42 (n=sean@pdpc/supporter/student/Moniker42) |
| 17:08.16 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 17:15.12 | Fradeve | thanks p3t3r__ edistar__ |
| 17:17.10 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@81.84.156.87) |
| 17:18.53 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@pdpc/supporter/active/bluelightning) |
| 17:19.39 | CM | Oh, a life sign from Sean on the planet :) |
| 17:22.15 | edistar__ | CM: and really informative it is.. |
| 17:24.03 | CM | edistar: Hehe, well, yeah, but at least he's still alive |
| 17:25.14 | *** part/#openmoko djp (n=djp@69-196-138-185.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 17:25.59 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-178-019.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:26.17 | edistar | CM: true;) that's something at least |
| 17:28.21 | mjr | continues a bit on the diffing proxy thing |
| 17:29.37 | CM | stops beating his head against pth and takes a bath instead |
| 17:31.08 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru_ (n=geaaru@host158-219-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:33.31 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A55982.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:38.31 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:40.19 | ScaredyCat | about time too CM |
| 17:41.22 | mwester | sprays some air freshener into the channel :P :D |
| 17:41.37 | mickeyl | heh |
| 17:41.39 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:42.17 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 17:43.56 | mickeyl | how do we want to program an alarm? |
| 17:44.03 | mickeyl | epoch or 9-tuple? |
| 17:44.10 | mickeyl | (via dbus) |
| 17:44.25 | mickeyl | epoch means you need to do the parsing |
| 17:44.44 | mickeyl | 9-tuple lets the dbus service parse |
| 17:46.00 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.63.239) |
| 17:46.08 | mickeyl | RealTimeClock.SetAlarmTime( "2008-06-10-09-06-60-11-12-12" ) ? |
| 17:46.08 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa__ (n=abraxa@pD95FE364.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:46.24 | mickeyl | abraxa_: epoch or 9-tuple? |
| 17:46.43 | Kero | that'd mean I have to print first... |
| 17:46.47 | mwester | tries to decode a 9-tuple... |
| 17:46.57 | abraxa__ | mickeyl: * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). :( |
| 17:47.00 | mickeyl | right |
| 17:47.04 | mickeyl | <mickeyl> how do we want to program an alarm? |
| 17:47.04 | mickeyl | <mickeyl> epoch or 9-tuple? |
| 17:47.04 | mickeyl | <mickeyl> (via dbus) |
| 17:47.04 | mickeyl | <mickeyl> epoch means you need to do the parsing |
| 17:47.04 | mickeyl | <mickeyl> 9-tuple lets the dbus service parse |
| 17:47.33 | mickeyl | dbus is all about simplicity, so i favour a 9 tuple (or the stringified equivalent) |
| 17:47.37 | abraxa__ | epoch as in... timestamp? |
| 17:47.48 | mickeyl | epoch as in... number of seconds since 1970 |
| 17:47.50 | *** join/#openmoko ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 17:47.50 | *** mode/#openmoko [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 17:47.50 | mwester | epoch. Avoids issues with the native service dealing with parse errors. |
| 17:48.33 | abraxa__ | Personally I'd say epoch as well since that makes dealing with timezones and time difference calculation easier |
| 17:48.37 | mwester | Pushes internationalization off to the app, or intermediate layer, where it should be. (uber-geeks keep time in seconds since the epoch, I'm told :) ) |
| 17:48.38 | mickeyl | right. and even the shell can call something like |
| 17:48.46 | mickeyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:48.49 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 17:48.56 | mickeyl | ok, so it's epoch for now then |
| 17:49.01 | mwester | Math is easier too. |
| 17:49.12 | mwester | (as in "now + 2 hours") |
| 17:49.20 | abraxa__ | I think second granularity is enough, what do you think? |
| 17:49.34 | mwester | agrees. |
| 17:49.57 | summatusmentis | abraxa_: I pinged you last night and I now have no idea what I wanted |
| 17:49.57 | Kero | for an alarm? minutes would probably do :) |
| 17:50.09 | mickeyl | well, once we use epoch, it's seconds granularity |
| 17:50.14 | Kero | yup |
| 17:50.18 | ScaredyCat | not for my boiled eggs! |
| 17:50.19 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 17:50.21 | mickeyl | hehehe |
| 17:50.28 | mickeyl | hmm btw. |
| 17:50.34 | mickeyl | when is epoch scheduled to overflow? |
| 17:50.38 | mickeyl | as in... 2**32? |
| 17:50.41 | mwester | 2038, isn't it? |
| 17:50.43 | Kero | mm, my breadmachine rings its alarm |
| 17:50.46 | mickeyl | right, 2038 |
| 17:50.49 | ScaredyCat | 38 iirc |
| 17:50.51 | Kero | 2**31 |
| 17:51.01 | mickeyl | ok, so that would make this interface last for 30 years |
| 17:51.02 | mickeyl | fair enough |
| 17:51.36 | ScaredyCat | well, that's not an excuse... |
| 17:51.52 | abraxa__ | Can't we use int64? |
| 17:52.00 | ScaredyCat | I want to be able to do use it in 30 years too :) |
| 17:52.35 | ScaredyCat | puts the oven on ... |
| 17:52.42 | Blastur | hows the PVT tests going |
| 17:53.20 | *** join/#openmoko ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 17:53.20 | *** mode/#openmoko [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 17:55.20 | summatusmentis | mickeyl: don't mean to be annoying, but will you look at my GSoC app? |
| 17:55.20 | Kero | Neo v8 in 2024 will have 64bits architecture :) |
| 17:58.28 | Tanu | and 8gig of ram... Oo |
| 17:59.30 | *** part/#openmoko p3t3r__ (n=p3t3r__@gate1.net-you.de) |
| 17:59.32 | mickeyl | probably not before the voting starts. i think we have enough information to judge |
| 17:59.54 | summatusmentis | alright, fair enough, I guess |
| 18:00.03 | summatusmentis | is kind of obsessive :) |
| 18:00.10 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:00.24 | *** join/#openmoko haakeyar (n=haakeyar@c9C364BC1.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 18:02.02 | cb22 | s/kind of// |
| 18:02.03 | cb22 | :p |
| 18:03.44 | *** join/#openmoko SirBob1701 (n=mcginley@139.84.102.34) |
| 18:03.46 | *** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 18:03.48 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 18:06.31 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:09.29 | summatusmentis | cb22: lol, don't hate :) |
| 18:09.51 | *** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@59-115-128-195.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 18:10.14 | *** join/#openmoko jamewill (n=jamewill@79-67-147-173.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:12.04 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 18:12.23 | *** join/#openmoko rtm (n=rtm@pool-129-44-187-24.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 18:12.41 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@81-237-230-160-no83.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 18:15.10 | *** join/#openmoko Bish (n=lala@p4FC4D572.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:15.24 | Bish | u guys are looking forward to freerunner |
| 18:16.18 | summatusmentis | pretty much, that's the only reason I'm in here :-P |
| 18:16.53 | doc|home | I'm here for the coke and hookers |
| 18:17.03 | cb22 | doc|home: you too? |
| 18:17.06 | summatusmentis | we have coke here? |
| 18:17.12 | summatusmentis | why was I not informed? |
| 18:17.12 | doc|home | cb22: aye! |
| 18:17.21 | doc|home | summatusmentis: you have to know the right peole |
| 18:17.23 | doc|home | *people |
| 18:17.33 | summatusmentis | oh, that would explain it |
| 18:17.35 | rtm | Is there a wiki page explaining where we get that? |
| 18:17.51 | doc|home | rtm: yes, but you must find it on your own |
| 18:17.58 | zedstar | local groups amsterdam |
| 18:18.18 | summatusmentis | is there like a pre-order list or something for it? |
| 18:18.22 | rtm | I've I've tried opkg install hooker. It bricked my neo. |
| 18:18.44 | cb22 | too bad its not gentoo, or you could've USEd protection :p |
| 18:19.19 | Bish | :DD |
| 18:19.30 | *** part/#openmoko ashish (i=d2d43dfb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b8c9978a5eb38b11) |
| 18:19.32 | Bish | will freerunner be there in may? |
| 18:20.44 | zedstar | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Amsterdam |
| 18:20.47 | zedstar | hmm none listed |
| 18:20.53 | summatusmentis | Bish: we don't know when, we're hoping soon |
| 18:21.03 | summatusmentis | topic says maybe April |
| 18:23.42 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic_ (i=tronic@dsl-tkubras1-ff30c300-158.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:24.32 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@f053153112.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:25.08 | *** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@59-115-128-195.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 18:25.28 | edistar | zedstar: do you live in NL? |
| 18:26.11 | zedstar | edistar no UK |
| 18:26.52 | edistar | ok, was wondering because of amsterdam |
| 18:27.23 | zedstar | edistar no was just a poor attempt at a joke |
| 18:28.23 | edistar | ok:) |
| 18:30.15 | *** join/#openmoko Tanuva (n=tanuva@e177114184.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:32.29 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 18:37.34 | Kero | yeah, bad joke. as if we have that only in Amsterdam. |
| 18:42.39 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc3-darl3-0-0-cust785.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:42.42 | Bish | summatusmentis: would be fuking great |
| 18:43.10 | summatusmentis | Bish: agreed, but we don't actually know. |
| 18:43.34 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE001217b19226-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 18:44.01 | Bish | summatusmentis: is it very popular? |
| 18:44.19 | Bish | because the buying interested list isnt that big. |
| 18:44.34 | Bish | or will there be a sold out. |
| 18:45.25 | summatusmentis | Bish: I don't really know that either. They're planning on producing more than they did for the 1973, I think |
| 18:46.00 | Bish | hope so.. i want to hold it in my hands, ! |
| 18:46.49 | rtm | I'll be kinda amazed if the Freerunner has appeal beyond the hardcore nerd market. But I'm often wrong. |
| 18:47.17 | summatusmentis | rtm: I think once the software stack gets there, it'll be much easier to mass market |
| 18:47.46 | rtm | I hope you're right. |
| 18:48.12 | Bish | does so, too |
| 18:48.26 | summatusmentis | me too, I don't want fic/neo to go the same way as sharp/zaurus |
| 18:48.36 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@plc9-214.linzag.net) |
| 18:48.49 | Bish | what happend exactly? |
| 18:48.55 | rtm | If the Freerunner ships with a rootfs installed, that'll help move it into the mainstream a bit. |
| 18:49.15 | Bish | it wontß |
| 18:50.35 | Bish | uh, the german openmoko community seems to be huge |
| 18:50.54 | rtm | The Zarius is encouraging in a way, because the software it spawned outlived the hardware platform. |
| 18:52.41 | rtm | Opps, I meant Zaurus. |
| 18:52.53 | Bish | ah i c.. thats bad |
| 18:53.01 | Bish | .. but for me it doesnt matter, or does it? |
| 18:53.33 | Bish | hm.. okay.. the openmoko community will die out, uh |
| 18:54.15 | rtm | Bish: Why do you believe it will die out? |
| 18:55.25 | Bish | only if the neo wont be successfull |
| 18:55.32 | Bish | or am i wrong? |
| 18:55.43 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@129.84-49-131.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:55.45 | summatusmentis | rtm: the only reason the community survived was because there was another devic |
| 18:55.59 | abraxa_ | Bish: We all take our daily dose of optimism every morning. All will be well. :) |
| 18:56.49 | *** join/#openmoko fredthecat (n=martin@82-42-255-216.cable.ubr12.brad.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:57.24 | rtm | Summatusmentis: Which device did the community move to first? There was a gap between Zaurus and Openmoko, wasn't there? |
| 18:58.39 | summatusmentis | only sort of |
| 18:58.57 | Bish | ah i c.. |
| 18:58.57 | summatusmentis | The Zaurus was still a feasible device once openmoko/neo was announced |
| 18:59.06 | Bish | what about android, i read the name on some pages? |
| 18:59.39 | summatusmentis | android isn't a community effort, isn't really opensource, and isn't available yet |
| 19:03.25 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 19:03.26 | abraxa_ | Also, Andriod is lead by the company who only says "don't be evil" until it can't deny being evil any longer ;) |
| 19:04.46 | *** join/#openmoko Gu1ll4um3r0m41n (i=Gu1ll4um@AReims-157-1-102-136.w90-7.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:04.49 | *** join/#openmoko fehmicans (n=canavar@78.164.128.39) |
| 19:06.40 | summatusmentis | I don't think Google is trying to be evil |
| 19:07.16 | zedstar | i wouldnt trust google |
| 19:07.20 | mwester | They're not trying to be *not* evil either. |
| 19:07.23 | ixian_probe | summatusmentis: no, they've just been corporatized ^_^ |
| 19:07.43 | zedstar | i was at a large mobile even where the speaker claimed Android was the first open source mobile platform etc |
| 19:07.48 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 19:07.51 | zedstar | event |
| 19:08.24 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@vpnf130.ugent.be) |
| 19:09.51 | abraxa_ | I forgot where I read it but someone pointed out that instead of releasing what they have and putting it under SCM, they want to release things at random points in time - which can be interpreted as "we *don't* want to release what we don't *have* to release, so we'll keep you hanging on for as long as we can" |
| 19:10.25 | Stephmw | abraxa_: no, that's not quite correct |
| 19:10.49 | abraxa_ | Oh? Where was I mistaken then? |
| 19:10.54 | mickeyl | zedstar: that's unfortunately untrue at this point of time |
| 19:10.55 | Stephmw | abraxa_: they have contractual obligations to only release certain parts (like the mpeg4 codecs) after the first commercial handset ships |
| 19:11.12 | Stephmw | abraxa_: they just avoid telling people about this |
| 19:11.28 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z6e29.z.pppool.de) |
| 19:11.50 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: Hm... weird that this isn't communicated |
| 19:12.01 | Stephmw | abraxa_: no, that's just PR |
| 19:12.08 | *** join/#openmoko Mek (n=marijn@i217224.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 19:12.08 | summatusmentis | ixian_probe: yes, but that get's into how evil capitalism is :) |
| 19:12.12 | zedstar | mickeyl yes i actually had a Neo on me that day and did speak to some of their engineers at the after show party they werent too bothered |
| 19:12.20 | Stephmw | abraxa_: they certainly don't want the media to pick up on the fact that android is open only for marketing |
| 19:12.39 | *** join/#openmoko paul0 (n=paulo@200-138-244-1.fnsce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 19:12.43 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: Nicely said :) |
| 19:13.07 | Mek | hmm.. I didn't expect this... I had left my neo locked for > 48 hours, with just a battery, and the battery was still not empty... |
| 19:15.15 | rtm | Mek: That is surprising. My neo is like a little Tamagotchi Pet that I have to keep feeding via the USB at very regular intervals, or it dies. |
| 19:15.33 | Stephmw | abraxa_: there's lots more about the platform that I don't like - which is why I haven't gotten involved in coding for it |
| 19:15.34 | zedstar | does android actually use dbus does anyone know or are they reinventing IPC too? |
| 19:15.53 | Stephmw | there's some other IPC thingie that I can't remember the name of |
| 19:15.58 | Stephmw | something already existing |
| 19:16.04 | *** join/#openmoko josch (n=josch@p57AD4F24.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:16.24 | abraxa_ | zedstar: They do use D-Bus according to a 3rd party... in ways I am tempted to use it in OM as well, I have to admit |
| 19:16.40 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: Mind listing a few? Always good to have arguments handy :) |
| 19:16.59 | zedstar | ah that is interesting to know thanks |
| 19:17.41 | Stephmw | abraxa_: well, nothing that isn't already plastered on several blogs... but really it's that no matter which way they paint it, Google can't (and doesn't want) guarantee that actual handsets won't be locked down |
| 19:18.03 | Stephmw | abraxa_: so where's the 'open' aspect? it's only useful to manufacturers |
| 19:18.46 | zedstar | interesting times ahead! |
| 19:19.07 | abraxa_ | Stephmw: Yeah... indeed. |
| 19:19.44 | zedstar | i wonder how locked down the Orange linux (ALP) based phone will be also |
| 19:20.03 | zedstar | supposedly out in a few months |
| 19:20.19 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 19:20.22 | Stephmw | zedstar: well... when I last looked at things in the Orange camp, an 'Open' OS included Symbian and WinMobile |
| 19:20.30 | Stephmw | zedstar: I'll let you make your own conclusions |
| 19:20.37 | edistar | iirc there will be android on the neo? some company working on that? |
| 19:20.53 | zedstar | stephmw lol yeh...probably open to old palm apps :) |
| 19:21.24 | Stephmw | zedstar: nono, it's more that the meaning of 'open' is fluid now it's become a buzzword. I'm writing a blog entry on this topic |
| 19:22.18 | abraxa_ | edistar: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/014813.html |
| 19:22.29 | zedstar | stephmw ok cool be interested to read it |
| 19:23.07 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@208.84-48-176.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:24.41 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@124-170-31-19.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 19:25.02 | edistar | abraxa_: thx |
| 19:25.48 | raster | moo |
| 19:26.01 | summatusmentis | hi raster |
| 19:26.31 | raster | moos |
| 19:27.20 | abraxa_ | raster: If I milk you, will a Freerunner fall out? |
| 19:27.25 | Bish | :DD |
| 19:27.31 | raster | ewwww |
| 19:27.36 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@pD9E09307.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:27.37 | raster | i am SOOOOOOOO not lactating dude! |
| 19:27.49 | abraxa_ | Well. There was a chance. |
| 19:27.54 | edistar | mad cow disease? |
| 19:27.56 | summatusmentis | see, I wasn't gonna go there |
| 19:32.29 | *** join/#openmoko Daviey (n=dave@ubuntu/member/daviey) |
| 19:35.34 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 19:37.15 | *** join/#openmoko tonyg (n=tonyg@91.84.78.92) |
| 19:38.09 | *** join/#openmoko ifeel (n=ifeel@151.70.145.210) |
| 19:43.35 | *** join/#openmoko flat (n=bkaplan@c-98-210-158-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:46.39 | *** join/#openmoko chrysn (n=chrysn@86.59.50.121) |
| 19:56.18 | *** join/#openmoko tonyg (n=tonyg@91.84.78.92) |
| 19:56.57 | *** join/#openmoko Tobi (n=tobi@pD9E8692E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:11.59 | *** join/#openmoko TAsn-ghost (n=TAsn@89.1.4.75.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 20:12.20 | *** join/#openmoko TAsn-ghost (n=TAsn@89.1.4.75.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 20:14.21 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 20:14.38 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrodf (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26) |
| 20:15.51 | *** join/#openmoko ifeel (n=ifeel@151.70.135.222) |
| 20:16.27 | ScaredyCat | <summatusmentis> [21:06] I don't think Google is trying to be evil |
| 20:17.07 | ScaredyCat | they just purchased double click - that's evil, double click == satan |
| 20:17.08 | summatusmentis | it's true, I mean, aside from being a huge corporation(which is the fault of a capitalistic society) |
| 20:17.12 | *** join/#openmoko john__ (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:17.17 | summatusmentis | and now they're selling off parts of it |
| 20:17.36 | ScaredyCat | well, they're making 300 people redundant from dc |
| 20:18.04 | ScaredyCat | essentially they'll take the data and probably leave the tracking and ditch the people... |
| 20:18.29 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 20:20.14 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: there's a line though, it's also sort of dependent on how they use the data |
| 20:20.38 | ScaredyCat | I'm afraid I'm in the "Google is evil, people just haven't seen it yet" |
| 20:20.54 | raster | geevil |
| 20:20.56 | raster | ? |
| 20:20.56 | raster | :) |
| 20:21.14 | ScaredyCat | gEvil ? |
| 20:21.29 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: I tend to feel that "Google can be evil, and it'll probably get to that point, but we're not there yet" |
| 20:22.58 | ScaredyCat | well, you're probably at the right age for their carrots :) |
| 20:23.26 | abraxa_ | Problem is: we won't know if/when government agencies start tapping google's resources |
| 20:23.57 | ScaredyCat | they're not now? |
| 20:23.59 | ScaredyCat | Sure? |
| 20:24.51 | *** join/#openmoko bernt (n=bernt@dslb-084-061-238-123.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:25.17 | abraxa_ | Exactly - I'm not :) |
| 20:25.18 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A55982.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:25.34 | ScaredyCat | perhaps I'm too old an cynical |
| 20:25.38 | cb22 | sees the black helicopteres near ScaredyCat's house |
| 20:26.01 | ScaredyCat | there are a lot of them here... |
| 20:26.34 | ScaredyCat | this place is on the edge of a training area. |
| 20:26.38 | *** join/#openmoko grummel (n=grummel@p5B16F110.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:26.44 | cb22 | raster: is it done yet? |
| 20:27.16 | cb22 | your custom matching engine that is :p |
| 20:27.39 | raster | no |
| 20:27.45 | raster | i have been thinking over how to do it |
| 20:27.57 | raster | i now know i can't squeeze aspell into service |
| 20:28.03 | raster | (i looked into it) |
| 20:28.20 | raster | and i'm mulling over how to format a dictionary for fast partial lookups |
| 20:29.11 | cb22 | btw, do you have your finger in the gta03 deciding pie? :) |
| 20:30.01 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 20:30.02 | ScaredyCat | sorted, then access with binary chop |
| 20:30.05 | raster | cb22: i do |
| 20:30.18 | raster | got any input? |
| 20:31.16 | cb22 | yeah, add in the v8 :) ... or a gfx chip that has more then 7mb/s bandwidth! |
| 20:31.40 | cb22 | but i dont think you need me to tell you that :) |
| 20:31.49 | raster | hahahahaha |
| 20:31.51 | summatusmentis | raster: also, high speed network? |
| 20:31.52 | raster | well yes |
| 20:31.54 | raster | i know that |
| 20:31.57 | raster | but any other input? |
| 20:32.04 | cb22 | 3g, definitly |
| 20:32.15 | raster | summatusmentis: 802.11 isn't enough? |
| 20:32.15 | summatusmentis | at least, ideally 700Mhz access |
| 20:32.16 | ScaredyCat | 2 keyboars |
| 20:32.23 | ScaredyCat | keyboard |
| 20:32.26 | ScaredyCat | s |
| 20:32.28 | summatusmentis | raster: not available in a lot of areas where I am |
| 20:32.30 | raster | ok |
| 20:32.34 | raster | REAL suggestions |
| 20:32.42 | raster | not peanuts from the peanut gallery |
| 20:32.43 | raster | :) |
| 20:32.53 | ScaredyCat | 2 keyboards is a real suggestion! |
| 20:32.55 | cb22 | raster: i'd imagine there is going to be a completely new case design too? |
| 20:32.59 | ScaredyCat | points at the helio |
| 20:33.08 | raster | summatusmentis: 3gt - beign hotly debated, but u'll need to convince sean. |
| 20:33.14 | ScaredyCat | (ocean) |
| 20:33.19 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 20:33.21 | raster | if you users really want 3g |
| 20:33.23 | raster | you need to speak up |
| 20:33.27 | raster | en-masse |
| 20:33.29 | raster | if u don't |
| 20:33.32 | raster | then u wont get it |
| 20:33.41 | summatusmentis | raster: sean is never on IRC :) how do we contact him? |
| 20:33.45 | raster | cb22: yes. new case (of course!) |
| 20:33.50 | raster | wum put up a wiki page about it |
| 20:33.51 | ScaredyCat | well, without meaning to be too rude |
| 20:33.59 | ScaredyCat | (yes unusual I know) |
| 20:33.59 | raster | summatusmentis: and get everyone to "sign up" |
| 20:34.01 | raster | eg |
| 20:34.08 | ScaredyCat | it's a bit fucking obvious |
| 20:34.11 | raster | "i will only buy a gta03 if its 3g" <yes><no> |
| 20:34.13 | raster | its up to you |
| 20:34.24 | raster | ScaredyCat: not to sean |
| 20:34.25 | cb22 | raster: although just seeing the discussion on the kernel list is cool :) |
| 20:34.29 | raster | he is disinterested in 3g |
| 20:34.42 | ScaredyCat | the non geek wont be buying the 02 at all.. |
| 20:34.44 | raster | 3g is not going to happen unless customers beat him up to get it |
| 20:34.48 | cb22 | if not 3g, _at least_ edge |
| 20:34.58 | raster | as i said |
| 20:35.00 | raster | if u want it |
| 20:35.01 | ScaredyCat | and lots of geeks will not buy it because there's no 3g |
| 20:35.01 | raster | speak up |
| 20:35.06 | raster | i personally want 3g |
| 20:35.09 | raster | umts minimum |
| 20:35.19 | raster | but what i say has no power. |
| 20:35.21 | summatusmentis | raster: what benefit would 03 have if not high network speeds? |
| 20:35.27 | summatusmentis | the rest is just fluff, you know? |
| 20:35.28 | raster | ScaredyCat: dont convince me |
| 20:35.31 | raster | convince sean |
| 20:35.41 | raster | i repeat |
| 20:35.49 | raster | put up a wiki page |
| 20:35.50 | ScaredyCat | yes, I get that... |
| 20:35.56 | raster | and get numbers behind what u say |
| 20:35.57 | cb22 | ScaredyCat: wiki page, go go go! |
| 20:36.09 | raster | sign up if you will or will not buy a gta03/4/whatever |
| 20:36.19 | raster | if it has 2g, 2g+edge/3g (umts) 3.5g etc. |
| 20:36.20 | ScaredyCat | I just think he might have his hands over his ears and be going "lalalalalalalalallaal I can't hear you lalalalala" |
| 20:36.22 | zedstar_ | 3.5G! |
| 20:36.25 | raster | if 99% of peole just wont buy without 3g |
| 20:36.28 | raster | thats a strong point |
| 20:36.34 | raster | but again - dont convince me |
| 20:36.40 | cb22 | but the thing is... it may not be a deal breaker |
| 20:36.41 | raster | put numbers behind your words |
| 20:36.48 | raster | get the community to make its voice heard |
| 20:37.09 | summatusmentis | raster: is there a preliminary list of features being discussed? |
| 20:37.10 | ScaredyCat | checks for a poll plugin |
| 20:37.25 | cb22 | summatusmentis: check out the kernel mailing list |
| 20:37.27 | zedstar_ | it is probably a good time to convince sean now as readin that post on planet sounded like he just took a Bong hit |
| 20:37.43 | raster | 3g presents all sorts of extra issues |
| 20:37.48 | raster | even *IF* everyone wanted it |
| 20:37.54 | *** join/#openmoko flat_ (n=bkaplan@unaffiliated/flat) |
| 20:37.54 | raster | and woudlnt buy a gta03/4/5 without it |
| 20:37.59 | raster | there is the cost increase |
| 20:38.05 | raster | it will significantly raise the cost |
| 20:38.13 | raster | above 2g/2g+edge |
| 20:38.18 | raster | also power consumption will go up |
| 20:38.23 | raster | (for data xfers over 3g) |
| 20:38.37 | cb22 | raster: well... |
| 20:38.41 | raster | summatusmentis: and all features are internal - we dont put them in public |
| 20:38.46 | raster | so as i said |
| 20:38.48 | raster | if u want 3g |
| 20:38.50 | raster | or whatever |
| 20:39.00 | raster | put up a wiki page and get peole to vote yes/no or whatever |
| 20:39.10 | raster | put numbers behind your desires |
| 20:39.19 | cb22 | if you use 2mw /minute with gprs, and 10mw / minute with 3g, but 3g only needs 1 minute where as gprs needs 10 |
| 20:39.59 | raster | sure |
| 20:40.07 | raster | but just idling ojn 3g uses more as best i know |
| 20:40.19 | cb22 | yeah, it does |
| 20:40.26 | raster | but as i said |
| 20:40.31 | cb22 | wiki page :) |
| 20:40.35 | raster | even if we know the market nneeds 3g |
| 20:40.38 | *** join/#openmoko grummel (n=grummel@p5B16F110.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:40.38 | raster | and insists on it |
| 20:40.46 | raster | there are other technical hurdles after that |
| 20:40.52 | raster | right now u are stuck at the first hurdle |
| 20:41.02 | raster | sean is of the beliefe the market doesnt want or care for 3g |
| 20:41.06 | raster | u want 2g+ 802.11 |
| 20:41.11 | raster | u want to bypoass the carriers |
| 20:41.17 | morricone | well, A5 is almost broken, so sooner or later we need 3g ;) |
| 20:41.21 | raster | u dont care to pay them for their data networks |
| 20:41.35 | abraxa_ | So, anyone setting up the wiki voting page? |
| 20:41.46 | raster | so u've lost already as the beliegfe is that u dont need 3g nor do u care - nor is it useful to you |
| 20:41.48 | cb22 | abraxa_: go ahead |
| 20:41.56 | raster | so uif u want/need 3g and it is useful to u and u care |
| 20:42.00 | raster | u need to make it known |
| 20:42.07 | raster | if u dont |
| 20:42.09 | raster | u'll never get it |
| 20:42.23 | raster | if u do - then thnigs go onto the next hurdle - technical |
| 20:42.34 | raster | even then u need to be willing to say u will pay mroe for 3g |
| 20:42.50 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: Whatchu doing atm? |
| 20:42.59 | raster | (no idea how much more - maybe $200? or $300? no idea definitely not $20 more) |
| 20:43.11 | ScaredyCat | right now? looking at putting a poll together |
| 20:43.28 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: Ah okay. Let me know how that goes so it won't be forgotten :) |
| 20:43.43 | ScaredyCat | hehe |
| 20:43.47 | ccfly | 3g is a power sucking demon straigh from hell |
| 20:43.48 | unknown_lamer | meh, edge is fast enough |
| 20:43.58 | ccfly | it wants your battery and it wants it bad |
| 20:44.08 | unknown_lamer | damn european folk and your supposedly extant 3G networks |
| 20:44.14 | cb22 | ccfly: i agree, lets skip normal 3g and go straight to hsdpa |
| 20:44.16 | Basheri_ | I'll definitely stand behind 3g |
| 20:44.21 | ccfly | c class receiver/transmitter, quite inefficient |
| 20:44.27 | Basheri_ | or hsdpa/* |
| 20:44.29 | cb22 | unknown_lamer: bwaha, even us in africa have hsdpa |
| 20:44.32 | ccfly | hspda is no better in this regard |
| 20:44.34 | unknown_lamer | curse you all |
| 20:44.48 | raster | cb22: hsupa :) |
| 20:44.52 | Sonicadvance | eh? I only have CDMA around here |
| 20:44.52 | raster | (3.5g) |
| 20:45.13 | raster | but if u go that far umts etc. is already included |
| 20:45.16 | cb22 | raster: gta03 + hsupa + lighttpd :) |
| 20:45.24 | ccfly | use GPRS + EDGE for everything lese Wifi will do just fine |
| 20:45.44 | raster | imho wifi is great - for when u are @ home, the office and mayeb a friends place |
| 20:45.48 | raster | where u have AP access |
| 20:45.53 | univac | wimax ;d |
| 20:45.56 | raster | outside those places u want 3g for any data |
| 20:46.02 | raster | wimax aint happening :) |
| 20:46.21 | cb22 | raster: pleas, please, please, please make sure the case looks sexy :) |
| 20:47.09 | ccfly | I don't find myself wanting to shift gargantuan ammounts of data on my cell phone, even though having web server on the move sound enourmously geeky and woulld boost my geek credit +1000 GP |
| 20:47.45 | raster | cb22: dude - i want a case that doesn't offend me :) one i'd be ok to b4e seen in public with. i will make sure it sexy |
| 20:47.50 | raster | it may not be everyones taste |
| 20:47.51 | ScaredyCat | ok, what's the best wording.... |
| 20:47.56 | raster | but it'll be less of a rubber hocvkey-puck |
| 20:47.57 | abraxa_ | raster: I don't care much about the cellular network tech as long as the graphics engine makes me want to buy you flowers and marry you. I want to beat the freaking Apple eye candy. |
| 20:47.57 | raster | thats for sure |
| 20:47.58 | raster | :) |
| 20:48.25 | raster | abraxa_: thats frankly my primary focus |
| 20:48.26 | raster | gfx |
| 20:48.27 | ScaredyCat | "Would you buy a device >GTA02 that did not have 3g?" |
| 20:48.35 | raster | right now i am thinking a WQVGA screen |
| 20:48.39 | raster | 432x240 |
| 20:48.44 | raster | really ultra-widescreen |
| 20:48.50 | raster | lower res than vga - sure |
| 20:48.58 | abraxa_ | For GTA02? Or its successor? |
| 20:49.01 | raster | but we will be able to drive that with gfx very very very smoothly |
| 20:49.04 | raster | 03 |
| 20:49.14 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: my issue is that there may be some other features that make it feasible for me to buy 03 w/out 3g |
| 20:49.16 | raster | with NO acceleration |
| 20:49.37 | *** join/#openmoko ifeel (n=ifeel@151.70.128.134) |
| 20:49.39 | ScaredyCat | summatusmentis: such as? |
| 20:49.45 | josch | noooo!!! no vga anymore?? |
| 20:49.48 | cb22 | raster: bwahaha, thats the best definition of what gta0? looks like i've ever heard |
| 20:49.54 | abraxa_ | raster: Dunno... VGA is pretty much a must for me |
| 20:50.02 | josch | seconded |
| 20:50.17 | raster | abraxa_: not likely to get it. |
| 20:50.20 | Sonicadvance | Still better than my Razr's reso ;p |
| 20:50.25 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: 16gb storage, or some other feature that makes it worth an upgrade, you know? |
| 20:50.37 | abraxa_ | raster: Damn :( |
| 20:50.44 | josch | f*** |
| 20:50.45 | raster | vga screens are rare |
| 20:50.51 | ccfly | oh common, maybe we can put some pain on nvidia / ati executives |
| 20:50.52 | raster | compared to their qvga counterparts and variants |
| 20:50.55 | ccfly | you know change their mind |
| 20:51.06 | Tronic_ | Hmm.. They are already planning on shutting down the GPS network in Finland. |
| 20:51.10 | josch | then i have to buy as many gta01 as i can |
| 20:51.11 | ccfly | specification are within our grasp, I'm telling you ! |
| 20:51.12 | ccfly | :> |
| 20:51.14 | Tronic_ | Replacing it with 900 MHz 3G. |
| 20:51.15 | raster | the vga lcd is quite expensive actually |
| 20:51.17 | abraxa_ | Tronic_: You mean GSM? |
| 20:51.21 | Tronic_ | Sorry, GSM. |
| 20:51.27 | ScaredyCat | right, so you'd be ok with gprs is you got 16gb ? |
| 20:51.30 | cb22 | ccfly: maybe if we do a covert op and steal their source code and 100,000 chips? |
| 20:51.42 | Bish | gps network? |
| 20:51.46 | Bish | ah i c xD |
| 20:51.55 | cb22 | i'm good for it *cocks pistol* |
| 20:52.33 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: potentially, I don't know how to say. At this point, i don't have money to spend on data, but I may in the future, you know? |
| 20:53.12 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: 3g would be deal sealer at least |
| 20:53.20 | ScaredyCat | right. but lets assume you got a $35 all the data you need + 200 sms + 500 minutes :) |
| 20:53.21 | ccfly | well since you could still make the modem part to work on 2g or 3g I don't see much dillema here |
| 20:53.37 | ccfly | still 3g is evil :> |
| 20:54.02 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: I'd buy a phone w/ 3g, I may still buy the same phone w/out 3g if the rest of it were worth an upgrade |
| 20:54.12 | cb22 | summatusmentis: yeah, same here |
| 20:56.16 | cb22 | but, it is a _huge_ benefit. like a few months ago, i was having a crisis, should i get an asus eee or a neo. now i've got enough cash to get both :) but if the neo had wifi, i would have gotten it |
| 20:56.43 | *** join/#openmoko mzb_d800 (n=mzb@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 20:56.50 | summatusmentis | is considering selling his Z for a freerunner |
| 20:57.01 | cb22 | it may not be a deal breaker on its own, but when you start thinking about alternatives, it can help |
| 20:57.06 | cb22 | summatusmentis: Z? |
| 20:57.14 | summatusmentis | cb22: Zaurus, C3200 |
| 20:57.32 | cb22 | ah, well dont buy anything until you know if you've been accepted for soc :) |
| 20:57.38 | summatusmentis | :-D |
| 20:57.58 | summatusmentis | I'd wait until I get out of my current contract, and raster finishes the onscreen keyboard :) |
| 20:58.06 | raster | the kbd does work |
| 20:58.09 | raster | its there - working |
| 20:58.16 | raster | it just is onyl usable by stylus atm |
| 20:58.16 | raster | :) |
| 20:58.20 | ccfly | may I ask how is the whole e on moko thing going raster ? |
| 20:58.24 | summatusmentis | right, finger keyboard is a must :) |
| 20:58.25 | raster | need to fix it up for fingaz |
| 20:58.34 | raster | ccfly: working ok |
| 21:00.25 | ccfly | as for wimax, who knows, Intel is bound to start spewing out chips with it |
| 21:00.43 | raster | u'd need wimax providers too |
| 21:00.43 | raster | :) |
| 21:00.58 | ccfly | we have one ! :) |
| 21:01.22 | ccfly | now let's see if the rest of the world can follow :> |
| 21:01.26 | raster | here they just use the 3g spectrum for it :) |
| 21:01.59 | cb22 | ccfly: uhm, we have quite a few of those in za, sorry :p |
| 21:02.32 | ccfly | does jedi trick: "you have no wimax providers in za" :> |
| 21:03.14 | cb22 | * ccfly has been kicked from #openmoko by cb22: Jedi tricks don't work on me, fool! |
| 21:03.36 | ccfly | :) |
| 21:04.36 | summatusmentis | raster: how does fic plan on marketing to multiple regions? |
| 21:04.38 | *** join/#openmoko Trevinho (n=Trevi@adsl-ull-86-18.49-151.net24.it) |
| 21:04.58 | summatusmentis | I don't know what the status of the 700Mhz spectrum is in eu, but it's gonna be the next thing in the US |
| 21:05.33 | raster | fix doesn't plan on anything |
| 21:05.39 | raster | openmoko may though |
| 21:05.41 | raster | err |
| 21:05.41 | raster | fic |
| 21:05.43 | raster | not fix |
| 21:05.44 | raster | :) |
| 21:06.16 | ccfly | It would be really nice if they would open that spectrum for everyone, but I guess I'm dreaming here |
| 21:06.46 | Blastur | haha,yeah.. you're dreaming |
| 21:06.54 | summatusmentis | ok, so openmoko then, are there plans for taking care of that sort of thing? |
| 21:06.55 | Blastur | unless you got like a billion billions to spare |
| 21:07.17 | Bish | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Media_Content/ar <- cool |
| 21:08.02 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@cpe-213-157-235-31.dynamic.amis.net) |
| 21:09.42 | summatusmentis | cb22: I'm scared, there are 50 applicants, and OM might only get 4 slots |
| 21:09.45 | raster | summatusmentis: i really dont know about our marketing plans |
| 21:09.49 | summatusmentis | ok |
| 21:09.55 | raster | i can't speak for them |
| 21:10.09 | raster | i have enough work focusing on engineering and stuff :) |
| 21:11.12 | cb22 | summatusmentis: well, good luck :) |
| 21:11.41 | summatusmentis | raster: that makes sense |
| 21:12.58 | raster | even within engineering i want to focus on those thngs relevant to the screen and user esperience |
| 21:13.03 | raster | experience |
| 21:13.12 | raster | make it smooth, beautiful and a joy to behold |
| 21:13.20 | raster | basically- i hope to beat apple at their own game |
| 21:13.25 | raster | wle i'd love to |
| 21:13.26 | raster | :) |
| 21:13.28 | raster | well |
| 21:14.11 | cb22 | hands raster an apple beating stick |
| 21:14.57 | abraxa_ | raster: I'm with you on that one 100%. We also need to beat Android, too. |
| 21:14.58 | *** join/#openmoko flat (n=bkaplan@c-98-210-158-198.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:15.15 | raster | no need to beat |
| 21:15.23 | raster | i want to eventually look at how to work with android |
| 21:15.27 | raster | their have their own UI |
| 21:15.30 | raster | their own windowing thing |
| 21:15.34 | raster | and that is just sucky |
| 21:15.43 | raster | so eventually there may need to be some work to port that over to x |
| 21:15.50 | raster | so everyone can play nicely together |
| 21:16.07 | abraxa_ | Yeah, and they might have good concepts to integrate/copy/improve on |
| 21:16.11 | morricone | i don't think they reallye want to play nicely together |
| 21:16.45 | ccfly | why not they're selling their services not an integrated experience per se |
| 21:16.54 | raster | morricone: they may not |
| 21:17.12 | raster | but thats "to be seen" for now |
| 21:17.16 | ccfly | they're merely making sure a platform for their stuff even exists |
| 21:17.38 | morricone | but maybe I'm a bit too pessimistic there |
| 21:20.22 | raster | :) |
| 21:20.27 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=nosyjoe@d83-183-79-105.cust.tele2.se) |
| 21:20.29 | raster | if they really are all about the services |
| 21:20.41 | raster | they wont care about other platforms using them and accessign them and integrating them well |
| 21:20.45 | raster | as its all positive for them |
| 21:20.57 | ScaredyCat | abraxa_: I've added the poll, want to take a look at the 'questions' to make sure they're ok ? |
| 21:21.29 | abraxa_ | Sure thing |
| 21:22.37 | ScaredyCat | thanks |
| 21:22.45 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: Where? :) |
| 21:22.47 | ScaredyCat | it's on the right sidebar |
| 21:22.52 | ScaredyCat | http://blog.automated.it |
| 21:23.18 | abraxa_ | btw, anyone knows what happened to the wiki? Seems like lots of edits are gone |
| 21:23.24 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 21:23.46 | raster | votes |
| 21:23.54 | raster | hahaha |
| 21:24.03 | raster | No. 3g is essential. (100%, 2 Votes) |
| 21:24.08 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: I'd like to see another option. "GPRS is not enough but 3G isn't necessary. EDGE would be okay, too." |
| 21:24.35 | ScaredyCat | ok, 2 seconds |
| 21:24.44 | abraxa_ | 1...2... |
| 21:25.30 | ScaredyCat | done |
| 21:26.05 | *** join/#openmoko affen (n=kala@194.126.113.157) |
| 21:26.08 | abraxa_ | Hm... I refreshed but it doesn't show up? |
| 21:26.21 | ScaredyCat | click the vote button |
| 21:26.34 | abraxa_ | "Please choose a valid poll answer" |
| 21:26.35 | ScaredyCat | or the view results |
| 21:26.42 | abraxa_ | Well, I wanna vote that option :) |
| 21:26.57 | ScaredyCat | do you see the questions or resultS? |
| 21:27.16 | abraxa_ | Questions - 4 of them |
| 21:27.28 | abraxa_ | I mean 4 possible answers |
| 21:27.48 | ScaredyCat | right, click the 'view results' text |
| 21:28.15 | ScaredyCat | oh, wait a sec I';ll kill the page cache,.. |
| 21:28.36 | abraxa_ | There we go |
| 21:28.42 | ScaredyCat | refresh the page |
| 21:28.43 | abraxa_ | Looks like we found a bug in the plugin :) |
| 21:29.23 | ScaredyCat | hegheh |
| 21:30.54 | ScaredyCat | lol - 3g is the leader after 5 seconds:) |
| 21:33.56 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: how do we show this to sean? |
| 21:34.19 | ScaredyCat | I'll blog about it and get it on planet... |
| 21:34.56 | *** topic/#openmoko by abraxa_ -> Welcome to the OpenMoko support and discussion channel! | http://openmoko.org | New version is the FreeRunner (with WiFi) | Official status: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates | Want 3G in the successor? http://blog.automated.it |
| 21:35.16 | thos | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:37.55 | thos | abraxa_, will anyone vite no? |
| 21:38.12 | thos | unless you're in some gsm backward country like USA ;-) |
| 21:38.36 | ScaredyCat | yoink! :) |
| 21:38.37 | raster | hehehhee |
| 21:38.38 | abraxa_ | Well I dunno... I guess Sean would? |
| 21:38.47 | raster | just make sure peole know about the poll |
| 21:38.49 | abraxa_ | That's the whole point of it anyway |
| 21:38.51 | raster | let them vote as they wish |
| 21:39.08 | raster | get enough votes for it to be relevant |
| 21:39.12 | raster | and it has weight |
| 21:39.17 | *** join/#openmoko ifeel (n=ifeel@151.70.154.228) |
| 21:40.52 | thos | how does it have any weight? |
| 21:41.15 | raster | if enough people vote - it has a good representation of possible customers |
| 21:41.16 | thos | to be honest, I find most of the community "debate" totally pointless |
| 21:41.17 | raster | if only 5 peole vote |
| 21:41.20 | raster | its pretty useless |
| 21:41.21 | raster | :) |
| 21:41.32 | raster | a lot of it is |
| 21:41.51 | raster | but u aren't going to see 3g without being organised enough to push it |
| 21:41.58 | raster | i'll tell u that |
| 21:41.59 | thos | huh |
| 21:42.06 | raster | if u dont want it |
| 21:42.09 | raster | then its irrelevant to you |
| 21:42.17 | thos | if openmoko are smart enough, they will have already have been thinking about it |
| 21:42.24 | thos | if they aren't smart enough, then what's the hope? |
| 21:42.28 | raster | i can tell u what the thinking is |
| 21:42.35 | raster | everyone but sean/will want 3g |
| 21:42.38 | josch | ScaredyCat, do a blog post so we can see the poll on planet |
| 21:42.39 | raster | they are basically vetoing it |
| 21:42.57 | raster | as in their opinion it is against the wills of the "free culture market" |
| 21:43.04 | raster | it sends the "Wrong message" |
| 21:43.14 | raster | and 3g is also not useful |
| 21:43.22 | raster | all u need is 2g+edge at best |
| 21:43.36 | raster | as otherwise u will use free 802.11 everywhere |
| 21:43.38 | thos | raster, for the US market, they might be right |
| 21:43.51 | thos | 3G is virtually non-existent in the us afaik |
| 21:43.51 | raster | not even for the us market imho |
| 21:43.55 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@82.201.178.99) |
| 21:44.11 | raster | i suspect u'll see it build in the near future |
| 21:44.27 | raster | but even then |
| 21:44.32 | thos | raster, I already told will he would be able to sell a lot more units if they had 3g |
| 21:44.34 | raster | let the customers speak |
| 21:44.37 | raster | if u dont need it |
| 21:44.38 | raster | then fine |
| 21:44.39 | raster | u dont |
| 21:45.06 | raster | my point is - if u want to see 3g - u need to speak up |
| 21:45.12 | raster | and not just say the obvious |
| 21:45.20 | raster | its being repeated ad-nauseum internally |
| 21:45.30 | raster | i'm bored of the discussion |
| 21:45.48 | raster | put "money where your mouth is" so to speak |
| 21:46.01 | thos | we haven't even got gta02 out the door, I just think it's a bit premature to be fussing about the next version after that |
| 21:46.03 | raster | if u want 3g say "i will buy a gta03/405/whatever if it has 3g - otherwise i won't" |
| 21:46.05 | raster | if it matters to you |
| 21:46.09 | raster | otherwise buy it anyway |
| 21:46.17 | raster | and it's not premature |
| 21:46.28 | raster | we need to begin on 03/04 now |
| 21:46.31 | raster | or they will be even later |
| 21:46.37 | raster | it takes ramp-up time |
| 21:47.02 | raster | but 3gvs2g is not my fight really |
| 21:47.22 | raster | i am just letting u know how to get your voice heard :) |
| 21:47.35 | thos | to be honest, form factor is more important to me anyway |
| 21:47.37 | raster | (whatever that voice says) |
| 21:47.37 | raster | i giver a crap about my screen and whats on it :) |
| 21:47.46 | raster | i agree there |
| 21:47.59 | raster | i want something slimmer and less.... rubbery-pucky |
| 21:48.10 | ccfly | less is more ! :> |
| 21:48.16 | raster | man - my rockr e6 is nicer |
| 21:48.21 | thos | i want some less shitty buttons and better touch screen |
| 21:48.21 | raster | and thats pretty bad |
| 21:48.30 | raster | yeah |
| 21:48.33 | raster | better touch screen |
| 21:48.38 | thos | a ts flush with the casing |
| 21:48.39 | raster | need to look at capacitive.. |
| 21:48.43 | thos | not this stupid bevel |
| 21:48.44 | raster | yup |
| 21:48.46 | raster | absolutely |
| 21:48.51 | raster | i think we will have that |
| 21:48.53 | cb22 | multi touch :) |
| 21:48.55 | ccfly | capacitive don't work with fingers ?! |
| 21:49.02 | raster | multi-touch is not going to happen |
| 21:49.05 | raster | trust me |
| 21:49.05 | cb22 | only* |
| 21:49.06 | thos | multitouch is a gimic anyway |
| 21:49.11 | thos | waste of time |
| 21:49.14 | cb22 | suppose so |
| 21:49.19 | thos | it's not intuitive nor clever |
| 21:49.19 | raster | it adds so much complication - we just dont need it |
| 21:49.34 | raster | we have a long way to go for single-touch to be decent |
| 21:49.35 | ccfly | well you can make gestures with single touch to it doesn't really matter I guess |
| 21:49.38 | ccfly | so |
| 21:50.24 | *** join/#openmoko _ts (n=pinhead@stdin.stderror.at) |
| 21:50.52 | cb22 | although a capacitive ts would be a lot better with fingers, wouldnt it? afaik it would only work with fingers or a special pen |
| 21:50.58 | raster | what we do need is a just mroe usable ts |
| 21:51.09 | raster | with light touching only needed - not a heavy press |
| 21:51.25 | raster | cb22: yes. much better for fingers. wont work with a stylus |
| 21:51.33 | raster | need a special pen |
| 21:51.43 | ccfly | there is an old stale info about capacitive being pen only and resistive beign touchable |
| 21:51.49 | ccfly | fragmented sector in my brain I guess |
| 21:51.50 | raster | and as such - fingers are great in-built stylus's |
| 21:51.53 | raster | hard to lose them |
| 21:51.53 | raster | :) |
| 21:52.07 | thos | you get dirty marks over the screen using fingers though |
| 21:52.13 | cb22 | unless you know some people in the russian mafia |
| 21:52.52 | ccfly | now that would surely leave smudges all over the screen :) |
| 21:53.02 | raster | thos: u get them anyway - my n800 has them... my rokr e6 has the,.. and i use a stylus with them |
| 21:53.26 | raster | maybe if someone can come up with smudge-free "glass" |
| 21:53.27 | raster | ... |
| 21:53.28 | raster | :) |
| 21:53.58 | ccfly | sure thing, black non-shiny plastic, smudge free |
| 21:54.07 | ccfly | 0 degree vision |
| 21:54.08 | ccfly | angle |
| 21:54.21 | raster | hahahah |
| 21:55.08 | ccfly | good night people, monday rears it's ugly head |
| 21:55.19 | ccfly | workign' in the coal mine .... |
| 21:55.21 | thos | maybe a matt screen would actually be better! |
| 21:55.23 | ccfly | bye :> |
| 21:55.24 | *** part/#openmoko ccfly (n=ccfly@89.212.76.77) |
| 21:55.42 | thos | certainly easier than gloss to glide fingers over |
| 21:56.06 | raster | possibly |
| 21:56.15 | raster | a matte surface might be nice |
| 21:56.20 | raster | much like touchpads |
| 21:56.27 | raster | (but see-through) |
| 21:56.36 | cb22 | ooh |
| 21:56.44 | cb22 | that would rock |
| 21:56.55 | raster | in fact the whole thing could be that |
| 21:57.02 | raster | go for matte as opposed to shiny |
| 21:57.12 | raster | maybe a combo of matte and aluminium |
| 21:57.30 | raster | whereas the iphone goes for shiny and glossy all around |
| 21:57.33 | raster | be the opposite |
| 21:57.34 | raster | matte |
| 21:57.44 | raster | instead of chrome - aluminium |
| 21:59.23 | zedstar_ | yeh gun metal |
| 21:59.55 | raster | dunhno if it's possible |
| 22:00.03 | raster | i'll see what our ID guy can do - or thinks |
| 22:03.43 | abraxa_ | Intelligent Design? |
| 22:03.55 | abraxa_ | Or Industrial Design? ;) |
| 22:05.06 | raster | industrial |
| 22:05.09 | raster | :) |
| 22:06.59 | josch | hrm... one week is over... do i get a tshirt now? ;) |
| 22:11.44 | *** join/#openmoko ifeel (n=ifeel@151.70.138.199) |
| 22:17.46 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@mobile-166-217-041-031.mycingular.net) |
| 22:19.54 | *** join/#openmoko Karrde (i=sehaton@shodan.irccrew.org) |
| 22:23.16 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrod (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26) |
| 22:36.37 | *** join/#openmoko xcasex (n=rrg@ua-83-227-156-234.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 22:41.30 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrodf (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26) |
| 22:41.35 | *** join/#openmoko rtm (n=rtm@pool-151-199-54-234.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:52.01 | thos | i wonder what 129% battery charge means |
| 22:53.47 | stefan_schmidt | thos: You can use it longer then expected? ;) |
| 22:54.01 | thos | hrmr |
| 22:54.31 | raster | thos: gta02? |
| 22:54.31 | thos | I wish we could read charge while it was actually charging :-/ |
| 22:54.36 | thos | yes |
| 22:56.16 | *** part/#openmoko zedstar_ (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 22:56.55 | *** join/#openmoko Maescool (n=maescool@maescool.be) |
| 23:04.24 | mickey|bbl | well, w/ the coloumb counter battery we can. |
| 23:04.59 | mickey|bbl | gta02 battery handling with stock batteries is buggy atm. |
| 23:06.00 | mickey|bbl | g'night |
| 23:08.32 | raster | thos: aaah yes. i have seen much... interestign behavior there |
| 23:08.39 | thos | still buggy? |
| 23:08.45 | thos | it was working a little while ago |
| 23:08.49 | thos | at around 60% |
| 23:09.01 | raster | i've seen it jump fro 20% to 100% |
| 23:09.10 | raster | but sit at like 10-20% all day |
| 23:09.13 | raster | charging |
| 23:09.19 | raster | for starters |
| 23:09.22 | thos | weird |
| 23:09.59 | thos | i was going to write a script like "sleep 60; touch /home/root/timer" |
| 23:10.08 | thos | and leave it on battery all night |
| 23:10.13 | thos | see what time it gives up |
| 23:11.18 | thos | not much point if I don't know whether the battery is fully charged though |
| 23:17.16 | *** join/#openmoko _ken_ (n=user@84.92.70.37) |
| 23:23.20 | summatusmentis | w00t! first of three PVT runs, and then mass production! |
| 23:25.43 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrod (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26) |
| 23:27.22 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 23:28.08 | abraxa_ | Let's hope! |
| 23:28.29 | summatusmentis | that's what the email to community said |
| 23:32.06 | josch | dont know if this ever gets official but i added the second week including a first nominee: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Member_of_the_Week |
| 23:34.18 | summatusmentis | what is openmoko-underground? |
| 23:36.36 | josch | http://blog.automated.it/2008/03/01/the-underground-bubbles-to-the-surface/ |
| 23:36.52 | josch | http://www.vanille-media.de/images/Fosdem2008-Neo1973-high.m4v |
| 23:37.15 | josch | http://neo1973-germany.de/wiki/Zad |
| 23:37.31 | abraxa_ | lmao josch |
| 23:37.40 | abraxa_ | It's as if you have been waiting for that question |
| 23:37.48 | summatusmentis | :) |
| 23:37.50 | josch | haha |
| 23:39.05 | josch | it's an alternative gui for openmoko based on efl, dbus, python and the openphone api compliant python daemons that interface gsm, gps etc... |
| 23:39.25 | josch | mickeyl is very fond on it and demonstrated it a lot |
| 23:39.32 | josch | s/on/of/ |
| 23:39.39 | josch | hoho |
| 23:39.40 | summatusmentis | :) |
| 23:39.53 | summatusmentis | so it's a testbed? |
| 23:40.14 | summatusmentis | is it ever intended to be used? |
| 23:40.23 | abraxa_ | When polished, yes |
| 23:40.24 | josch | the python daemons are perfectly working prototypes of the ophone api |
| 23:40.38 | summatusmentis | I see |
| 23:40.50 | summatusmentis | nothing device related yet, I hope :) |
| 23:40.57 | summatusmentis | because I've got dibs on that |
| 23:41.04 | josch | in which way device related? |
| 23:41.04 | abraxa_ | Also, it shows the feasibility of python and EFL on the hardware |
| 23:41.10 | *** join/#openmoko AngeLay (n=alew@88.238.126.140) |
| 23:41.20 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat is making images for that? |
| 23:41.22 | josch | and the feasibility of dbus daemons |
| 23:41.27 | josch | kdean06, yes he is |
| 23:41.32 | abraxa_ | kdean06: Nope |
| 23:41.33 | josch | mickeyl too |
| 23:41.36 | abraxa_ | oh, he is? |
| 23:41.37 | josch | abraxa_, not? |
| 23:41.37 | kdean06 | Is it a proof-of-concept or "the next line" ? |
| 23:41.59 | abraxa_ | josch: From what I know, mickey only made one single image by hand to demonstrate it to .tw folks |
| 23:42.01 | josch | kdean06, it's stilll work in progress but works very well even in this stage |
| 23:42.13 | summatusmentis | josch: odeviced |
| 23:42.27 | josch | another remarkable thing is the gsm muxxer |
| 23:42.46 | josch | with it you can have as many gsm or gprs channels as you like at the same time |
| 23:43.15 | josch | so you can call so., download sth, and get sms |
| 23:43.29 | summatusmentis | sth? |
| 23:43.36 | josch | dont know why openmoko didnt provide a muxxer in the first place |
| 23:43.41 | josch | sth= something |
| 23:43.48 | summatusmentis | oh |
| 23:44.14 | summatusmentis | most phone can at least do two of those, call and get sms |
| 23:44.25 | josch | openmoko yet cannot |
| 23:44.30 | josch | well must go to bed now |
| 23:44.35 | josch | till tomorrow! |
| 23:44.43 | abraxa_ | Nighty night, josch |
| 23:44.45 | kdean06 | josch, I suppose my question is less "does it work" and more "is this going to end up on consumer ready devices". :) As far as I know this is a side-project and not official. BUt if it's the infancy of the new official line, I might want to take a REAL close look at it. |
| 23:45.28 | josch | kdean06, it doesnt matter to me wether it is official or sth - it shows what the community can do given an open platform |
| 23:45.57 | josch | abraxa_, i leave the explanation to you now ^^ |
| 23:46.00 | kdean06 | :P |
| 23:46.20 | abraxa_ | kdean06: It's basically a test bed for the freesmartphone.org APIs - so you'll end up seeing the same APIs (maybe daemons even) on Openmoko eventually |
| 23:47.18 | kdean06 | :) |
| 23:47.23 | abraxa_ | As you might've heard, mickey is all about middleware these days. His freesmartphone.org project is defining the designs/APIs/semantics of these services |
| 23:47.38 | kdean06 | Yeah, I've heard. :) |
| 23:47.56 | kdean06 | middleware is a word that's been launched out of my inbox like kittens from a cannon recently. :P |
| 23:48.12 | abraxa_ | lol... in regards to OM? |
| 23:48.27 | kdean06 | "I decline to comment". |
| 23:48.33 | summatusmentis | FWIW, MS Word doesn't recognize the word middleware |
| 23:48.49 | kdean06 | abraxa_, May I /msg you for a moment? |
| 23:49.09 | abraxa_ | lol, no need to ask permission |
| 23:49.14 | kdean06 | Just making sure. :) |
| 23:49.18 | abraxa_ | And be it as it may, things are moving :) |
| 23:51.36 | *** join/#openmoko netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org) |
