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| 00:13.02 | SpeedEvil | http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/localnews/category?blogid=37&cat=1428 is the blog - in extreme detail |
| 00:13.11 | abraxa_ | Reading it actually |
| 00:13.11 | SpeedEvil | not quite word forr word - buyt approaching. |
| 00:13.30 | abraxa_ | Either he's a total klutz and *really* bad with people or he has something to hide |
| 00:14.00 | abraxa_ | Knowing the kernel ML discussions I'd say it's the former but I can imagine others don't buy it |
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| 00:14.25 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - he came over quute abrasively tehere. |
| 00:14.29 | SpeedEvil | At times. |
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| 00:15.36 | abraxa_ | "Hora asked if it was true Reiser never followed up on his kids' welfare -- as far as them getting picked up or not -- after making that 5:04 p.m. call. Reiser said that's true, [...] "I'm an inconsiderate asshole." |
| 00:15.42 | abraxa_ | Yeah, you could say so |
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| 00:38.07 | Moniker42 | hey, how do i filter the openmoko mailing list? |
| 00:38.24 | Moniker42 | i.e. apply a filter to move openmoko mailing lists... |
| 00:38.28 | Moniker42 | listid=openmoko? |
| 00:40.10 | SpeedEvil | typically |
| 00:40.23 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - I don't know |
| 00:40.38 | Moniker42 | it was a vague question |
| 00:40.46 | Moniker42 | i'm running low on caffeine... :) |
| 00:41.31 | ewon | too much blood in your caffeine stream |
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| 01:50.19 | rtm | Is there anyone online who is familiar with the projects.openmoko.org site? In particular, does anyone know how to categorize a project within the Trove Software Map? |
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| 01:53.09 | Mek | rtm: on the admin page of your project theer should be a "Trove Categorization: [Edit]" link... |
| 01:53.56 | rtm | Thanks! |
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| 02:02.21 | rtm | Mek: I'm afraid I now have an even more basic question - How do I get to the admin page? When I select my project, I see tabs for Summary Forums Tracker Lists Tasks Docs Surveys News SCM and FIles, but nothing for admin. I am listed at the only "developer" for the project, but I see nobody listed under Project Admins. Do I have to do something to become the admin? I'm the only person working on this project at the moment. |
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| 02:03.41 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, I tried your theme today. I personally think it's hideous but there may be something to this "it's faster" thing. :) |
| 02:04.03 | kdean06 | I might try to test it more... concretely. :) |
| 02:04.31 | kdean06 | "Hideous" being a totally subjective, personal opinion. :) |
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| 06:05.45 | CIA-16 | freesmartphone.org: 03pikkive * r136 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Fixed list_providers method, modified it's interface and added tests for it |
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| 07:08.09 | ccfly | hello folks :> |
| 07:09.37 | rtm | Hello |
| 07:10.55 | Aria | Hi |
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| 07:12.19 | rtm | Is there anyone online who is familiar with the ins and outs of the projects.openmoko.org website? |
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| 07:48.42 | CIA-16 | freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r137 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (11 files in 2 dirs): |
| 07:48.42 | CIA-16 | freesmartphone.org: gsmd2: Vendor interface changes |
| 07:48.42 | CIA-16 | freesmartphone.org: Error reporting changes |
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| 09:35.08 | ScaredyCat | watches a tumbleweed pass by |
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| 09:47.18 | rtm | Is there anyone online who is familiar with the ins and outs of the projects.openmoko.org website? |
| 09:47.56 | roh | yes and no. i admistrate it |
| 09:48.01 | mbuf | rtm, not sure, but, what is your actual question? |
| 09:49.59 | rtm | Great! I've got a project registered, but I am likest as the developer, not the admin. So it appears like I can't do certain admin things like categorize the project under the Trove Software Map. How do I beome the admin for my project? |
| 09:52.02 | josch | if you registered the project you /are/ the admin arent you? |
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| 09:53.00 | rtm | It doesn't look like it. In the "Developer Info" box, Nobody is listed under "Project Admins:" but I am listed under "Developers:" |
| 09:57.16 | roh | which project? |
| 09:57.33 | rtm | orrery - I am Ken Young. |
| 09:58.24 | roh | you were right.. were senior developer ther |
| 09:58.27 | roh | enow admin |
| 09:58.58 | rtm | Thanks very much! I must have messed up the initial submission, somehow. |
| 09:59.02 | roh | that can happen if you e.g. set others to admin and delete their account or so ;) |
| 09:59.54 | roh | the rights system doesnt protect anyone from wrong handling there and allows signing away rights with no way besides an admin to get them back |
| 10:00.19 | roh | lets just call it 'flexible' ;) |
| 10:00.27 | rtm | Is there a manual or FAQ somewhere that explains all the features of that site? |
| 10:00.52 | roh | uhm.. not that i know of. its a pretty standard gforge install |
| 10:01.13 | roh | so generic gforge docs should apply |
| 10:01.22 | rtm | This is my first attempt to use anything like it. Thanks again for your help. |
| 10:01.38 | rtm | I've used CVS a lot, but that's about all. |
| 10:02.28 | roh | basically its just lots of glue and php to tie mailman(s) cvs(s) svn(s) and other less nice stuff together |
| 10:04.52 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar_ (n=user@dyn891-232.ota.ichosted.org.uk) |
| 10:07.12 | rtm | roh: Is it possible for me to edit the project's "Short Description"? I'd like to add a link to the wiki page that has screen shots, etc. |
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| 10:07.41 | roh | rtm should be. |
| 10:08.09 | rtm | Oh yes, I see how to now. Sorry for the dumb questions. |
| 10:08.26 | roh | edit public info |
| 10:08.35 | roh | i need to search such stuff also |
| 10:13.20 | rtm | roh: I classified my project as "Astronomy: in the Trove, and it shows up with that Topic on the project's page. However, the site still reports 0 projects under the Astronomy category. Does it take a while for that information to propagate though the system? |
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| 10:15.06 | cb22 | hopes to release youtube player v0.1a soon :) |
| 10:15.46 | rtm | cb22: That'll be a popular addition! |
| 10:15.52 | roh | rtm to be fair, i do not know. that trove thing is suspect to me too |
| 10:16.04 | roh | but the simpler to find the better |
| 10:16.32 | roh | that trove map stuff seems to be intended for huge amounts of projects, not just a hundred |
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| 10:17.39 | cb22 | rtm: i hope so :) the encoding server is |<-1cm->| away from being finished |
| 10:17.40 | rtm | roh: I was all excited, because I thought I might have registered the first Astronomy project, but it looks like the categorization may not be completely functional. |
| 10:18.15 | cb22 | then i need to figure out how to use setuptools, then how to do a release in svn, then build packages, and then release it :) |
| 10:20.31 | roh | setuptools? |
| 10:20.46 | cb22 | python's setuptools, for rolling things like setup.py |
| 10:20.55 | cb22 | its distutils on setroids |
| 10:21.44 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 10:22.04 | cb22 | morning Hopscotch |
| 10:23.09 | roh | i see.. python ;) |
| 10:23.30 | roh | that trove stuff could be done via repeating crons.. so lets just see if it shows up by itself |
| 10:23.46 | rtm | I'll try to be more patient. |
| 10:24.14 | cb22 | roh: could be worse, i could be using java :p |
| 10:24.33 | roh | hrhr |
| 10:25.15 | roh | to be fair.. i like python, which is the first scripting language i do respect that way.. because its readable (more than some other language written code) |
| 10:28.03 | cb22 | and now it can be translated to other things too :) pypy! |
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| 10:30.06 | josch | cb22, a youtube player? |
| 10:30.29 | cb22 | josch: youtube player and youtube transcoding server |
| 10:30.41 | josch | where can i get the source? |
| 10:30.50 | josch | transcode into what? |
| 10:31.07 | cb22 | josch: i havent started on the player yet, but the server is quite far along |
| 10:31.12 | cb22 | josch: streaming over gprs |
| 10:31.16 | josch | wohoo nice |
| 10:31.37 | josch | you transcode/stream on the fly? |
| 10:32.02 | cb22 | transcoding takes a little bit of time, about 30-40seconds for a 4 minute videos |
| 10:32.07 | cb22 | streaming happens real time |
| 10:32.15 | josch | where is your svn? |
| 10:32.29 | josch | projects.openmoko.org? |
| 10:32.43 | cb22 | if you really want to burn your eyes out :) yeah, the project is called youplay |
| 10:33.14 | cb22 | the video looks like http://cb22.za.net/videos/sample.mkv when streamed over gprs |
| 10:33.31 | cb22 | btw) the code is really ugly atm |
| 10:34.47 | cb22 | but there are two parts, first part: a daemon that listens on /tmp/video.sock (trunk/server/encoder) edit outputdir in that file to something relavent |
| 10:34.58 | SpeedEvil | That's at GPRS badnwidth? |
| 10:35.07 | cb22 | SpeedEvil: yep |
| 10:35.12 | SpeedEvil | That's quite impressive. |
| 10:35.44 | josch | thanks to h264 and vorbis |
| 10:35.48 | cb22 | indeed |
| 10:35.58 | cb22 | i still need to tweak the settings abit |
| 10:36.22 | SpeedEvil | Hmm - that's wanting 10% CPU here - what's it on the neo? 80%? |
| 10:36.38 | josch | 200% :P |
| 10:36.42 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 10:36.42 | cb22 | SpeedEvil: well, without scaling, it plays fine |
| 10:36.53 | cb22 | what i'm thinking is bumping down the bframes |
| 10:37.04 | josch | cb22, i played prescaled mpeg4 on the neo quite fine |
| 10:37.11 | josch | in qvga |
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| 10:37.40 | cb22 | josch: this plays fine with no scaling, ahven did it, over gprs too! but add scaling and it slows down a bit |
| 10:38.00 | josch | i experienced this too with mpeg4 |
| 10:38.03 | cb22 | although that is full h264, not the easier baseline profile |
| 10:38.15 | josch | a 320x240 video is faster than a scaled one with lower resolution |
| 10:38.25 | SpeedEvil | gets some odd sound-video offset |
| 10:38.45 | josch | SpeedEvil, maybe because of the mkv container? which player do you use? |
| 10:38.50 | SpeedEvil | mplayer |
| 10:38.53 | josch | yepp |
| 10:39.00 | josch | i have them too with mkv there |
| 10:39.02 | SpeedEvil | MPlayer 1.0rc2-3.4.6 (C) 2000-2007 MPlayer Team |
| 10:39.14 | josch | vlc is the recommended player for mkv |
| 10:39.26 | cb22 | SpeedEvil: hmm, i have -4.2.1 and it seems to play fine |
| 10:39.44 | cb22 | (not sure if that means anything though) |
| 10:39.47 | josch | also has delays with mkv+mplayer |
| 10:40.00 | josch | MPlayer 1.0rc2-4.2.3 |
| 10:40.41 | cb22 | hmm, what is another suitable container for h264 + vorbis? |
| 10:41.01 | SpeedEvil | Won't AVI work? |
| 10:41.13 | cb22 | nope |
| 10:41.14 | josch | it will but streaming with avi is impossible |
| 10:41.20 | cb22 | vorbis in avi is a dirty hack |
| 10:41.25 | SpeedEvil | tar then. |
| 10:42.03 | josch | what about using ogg as the container? |
| 10:42.17 | josch | i consider ogg more stable than mkv |
| 10:42.21 | cb22 | yeah, but how can i get it into ogg? |
| 10:42.28 | cb22 | ogg or ogm? |
| 10:42.46 | josch | ogg as the container format |
| 10:42.58 | Tronic | josch: Both ogg and ogm are that. |
| 10:43.35 | josch | whats the difference? |
| 10:43.39 | cb22 | installs ogmtools |
| 10:43.41 | Tronic | OGM is a fairly popular but undocumented and not really supported "AVI inside Ogg" wrapping by one coder. |
| 10:44.08 | cb22 | Tronic: do you know of something like oggtools? |
| 10:44.08 | Tronic | Ogg can directly store Theora and Vorbis, too, but AFAIK it cannot handle other formats (read: Xiph didn't bother to specify how). |
| 10:44.18 | Tronic | Just use Matroska, it is far better than any of those two. |
| 10:44.51 | josch | well mkv is better than *anything* out there feature wise :P |
| 10:45.06 | Tronic | josch: True, except for compatibility with closed players. |
| 10:45.12 | josch | yepp |
| 10:45.49 | cb22 | argh, great. i lost some changes :/ |
| 10:45.56 | cb22 | ignore whats in svn atm |
| 10:47.05 | cb22 | ok, its safe again |
| 10:47.47 | cb22 | it will still burn your eyes out, and kill kittens, however. |
| 11:03.09 | *** join/#openmoko Varox_NB (n=doug@p4FD47BB4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:08.25 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 11:08.35 | *** join/#openmoko Tob1 (n=tobi@pD9E83FA3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:13.41 | CIA-16 | freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r138 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/ (20 files in 2 dirs): |
| 11:13.41 | CIA-16 | freesmartphone.org: gsmd2: Refactoring |
| 11:13.41 | CIA-16 | freesmartphone.org: Changed handler interface |
| 11:15.14 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-159-249.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:19.30 | CIA-16 | freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r139 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/src/modem_internal.h: gsmd2: Add missing modem_internal.h |
| 11:19.30 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1318 has been created by ragavendra.bn(AT)gmail.com |
| 11:19.30 | cdbot2 | * * OpenMoko not mounting on Qemu on Fedora8 |
| 11:19.30 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1318 |
| 11:22.33 | *** join/#openmoko dread (n=markus@openmoko.medieninformatik.hdm-stuttgart.de) |
| 11:25.51 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru_ (n=geaaru@host14-224-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:29.49 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@ozone.rtvslo.si) |
| 11:30.45 | wurp2|bye | Is there an opkg-link? |
| 11:31.13 | wurp2|bye | ipkg-link doesn't appear to work with packages installed by opkg, and the latest 01 image doesn't have ipkg installed any more... |
| 11:33.39 | abraxa__ | wurp2|bye: Let's ping thos :) |
| 11:37.29 | wurp2|bye | thos: ping |
| 11:37.34 | wurp2|bye | :-) |
| 11:37.34 | *** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=TAsn@89.1.66.99.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 11:37.50 | *** join/#openmoko darmou (n=darmou@ppp121-44-191-27.lns5.mel6.internode.on.net) |
| 11:40.18 | *** join/#openmoko tonyg (n=tonyg@host226.lshift.net) |
| 11:41.10 | *** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=TAsn@89.1.40.20.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 11:47.11 | thos | wurp2|bye, ? |
| 11:47.16 | thos | ??? |
| 11:47.22 | thos | opkg-link? |
| 11:47.22 | thos | no |
| 11:47.27 | thos | look at discussion on the mailing list |
| 11:47.59 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrodf (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26) |
| 11:49.56 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@vpn32-244.rz.fh-offenburg.de) |
| 11:50.10 | wurp2|bye | Hmm, I missed that discussion altogether I guess |
| 11:50.14 | wurp2|bye | Lemme search... |
| 11:50.50 | thos | wurp2|bye, opkg-devel mailing list |
| 11:50.56 | wurp2|bye | Oh |
| 11:51.12 | wurp2|bye | I didn't realize I have to follow the opkg-devel mailing list to keep installing pkgs :-( |
| 11:51.32 | thos | wurp2|bye, you asked a question about opkg :-P |
| 11:52.30 | wurp2|bye | True |
| 11:53.19 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@212-41-114-195.adsl.solnet.ch) |
| 11:54.55 | wurp2|bye | So the short answer is that if I want to install stuff other than on the rootfs I just have to hack it |
| 11:55.14 | wurp2|bye | (I read the 3 messages on the opkg-devel list that seemed pertinent) |
| 11:55.29 | thos | I think all ipkg-link did was to create symlinks |
| 11:55.50 | wurp2|bye | Yeah, but for some reason it doesn't do that properly for packages installed by opkg |
| 11:56.33 | thos | wurp2|bye, well, like marcin said, just hack the ipkg-script |
| 11:56.37 | thos | or use unionfs |
| 11:56.39 | *** join/#openmoko larry (n=larry@200.184.118.132) |
| 11:57.28 | playya | hi inhabitants of the earth |
| 11:57.31 | wurp2|bye | I don't really want to hack yet another thing on my neo. I guess I need to go learn about unionfs, then update the wiki |
| 11:57.45 | thos | wurp2|bye, hack it and the contribute it back to the community ;-) |
| 11:58.04 | wurp2|bye | hmm, maybe... |
| 11:58.26 | wurp2|bye | Sorry, I just thought I was gonna flash a new image on real quick before I went to work |
| 11:58.32 | wurp2|bye | That was a bad idea ;-) |
| 11:59.02 | wurp2|bye | Gotta go, thanks for the feedback, thos! |
| 11:59.06 | thos | np |
| 12:00.39 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 12:02.28 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 12:02.42 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4308 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (ChangeLog data/gtk-2.0/openmoko-dialer src/moko-draw.c): |
| 12:02.42 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 2008-04-04 Thomas Wood <thomas@openedhand.com> |
| 12:02.43 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * data/gtk-2.0/openmoko-dialer: Add borders to keypad buttons |
| 12:02.43 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * src/moko-draw.c: (moko_draw_box): Implement border option |
| 12:05.18 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:09.30 | *** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 12:12.54 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4309 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (ChangeLog data/gtk-2.0/gtkrc): |
| 12:12.54 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 2008-04-04 Thomas Wood <thomas@openedhand.com> |
| 12:12.54 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * data/gtk-2.0/gtkrc: Darken "base" widgets. |
| 12:12.54 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Fix toolbar button prelight issues |
| 12:15.03 | *** join/#openmoko Bireman (n=birestyl@213.55.87.101) |
| 12:15.14 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@kensentme.xs4all.nl) |
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| 12:19.00 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-250-159.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:21.55 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 12:23.29 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak (n=stefreak@frnk-4d015f8e.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 12:27.09 | josch | if you really actively use gtk on your neo you might have come across it's painful slowness |
| 12:27.29 | josch | fortunately ScaredyCat provided a much faster theme for us: http://blog.automated.it/2008/03/22/just-my-imagination/ |
| 12:27.52 | josch | and for all of those who this wasnt far enough there is: http://blogs.gnome.org/thos/2008/04/02/brand-new-moko-theme-idea/ |
| 12:28.21 | josch | but i though that gtk was still too slow for my so I created my own theme |
| 12:28.27 | josch | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/index.php?page=1 |
| 12:28.37 | josch | now it's perfectly fast and all! |
| 12:28.41 | josch | yeah! |
| 12:34.15 | CIA-16 | freesmartphone.org: 03hepaajan * r140 10/trunk/software/gsmd2/configure.ac: gsmd2: Fix package name |
| 12:44.56 | mjr | SpeedEvil, has anyone done work on that rsyncish proxy thing? (maybe getting a slight twinge of motivation towards it, not sure yet though) |
| 12:46.57 | madwoota | that feeling will soon pass ;P |
| 12:48.26 | mjr | it is quite possible |
| 12:48.47 | mjr | however, what with the gprs mux thingy, it's more and more relevantly also a personal itch |
| 12:50.14 | *** part/#openmoko Bireman (n=birestyl@213.55.87.101) |
| 12:50.31 | mjr | somebody pointed me to Twisted, seems like a potentially nice framework for doing stuff |
| 12:50.39 | abraxa_ | mjr: You're using GPRS? |
| 12:51.45 | mjr | yes, on the road |
| 12:53.30 | abraxa_ | emdete is looking for people to help him debug the phone stack (including the calypso firmware), so if you feel like helping him, please visit http://neo1973-germany.de/wiki/ZadTesters |
| 12:56.15 | mjr | with the muxd and pygsmd installed as mentioned there, it "should" work with the normal phone ui as well as being able to do gprs, I presume? |
| 12:57.44 | emdete | mjr: no, pygsmd has a different api |
| 12:57.59 | mjr | in that case probably not |
| 12:58.09 | abraxa_ | Fair enough :) |
| 12:58.09 | emdete | mjr: u need a ui that uses that api correctly |
| 12:58.10 | mjr | it's my only phone |
| 12:58.25 | abraxa_ | Wow, you're brave |
| 12:58.29 | mjr | 'course, if there's a usable phone ui... |
| 12:58.47 | josch | lol there is *really* someone using openmoko as a *real* phone?? |
| 12:58.51 | emdete | mjr: pyneog is not really far |
| 12:58.56 | mjr | my n-gage broke (last fall) and I'm stubborn about buying a new one at this stage |
| 12:59.12 | mjr | of course, "this stage" has stretched a bit far |
| 12:59.38 | abraxa_ | I'm glad it is usable for you, though |
| 12:59.38 | mjr | anyway, not very brave; a phone is nonessential for me |
| 12:59.54 | mjr | which is good 'cause it does bug out sometimes, of course... |
| 13:00.11 | mjr | I'm more interested in having internet access, even slow, on the go |
| 13:00.45 | mjr | which has of course been rather limited too what with the lack of muxers, but will have to play with that this weekend |
| 13:01.32 | mjr | as well as see if I can prototype that proxy thing |
| 13:01.43 | mjr | mitigating the slowness would be rather good |
| 13:02.15 | abraxa_ | Indeed |
| 13:02.50 | josch | oh i have a slowness fix somewhere around :Ã |
| 13:02.56 | mjr | speed? |
| 13:02.58 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak (n=stefreak@frnk-4d015f8e.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 13:03.09 | josch | mjr, http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ |
| 13:03.19 | josch | :P |
| 13:04.10 | mjr | I'm not sure what's relevant there? |
| 13:04.34 | mjr | except freedroid on the neo, that's very relevant |
| 13:04.39 | josch | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/f95af325b69c7082e54c0d53ddd5f1ac.png <= plz do not take this seriously |
| 13:04.41 | josch | ^^ |
| 13:04.50 | josch | but fast it is indeed ^^ |
| 13:04.51 | abraxa_ | AHHH PLZ |
| 13:04.52 | abraxa_ | MY EYES |
| 13:04.57 | abraxa_ | *smacks josch* |
| 13:05.01 | thos | haha |
| 13:05.01 | josch | hehe |
| 13:05.37 | mjr | josch, yes well. I did briefly entertain the notion that you wanted to show the dialer, but I underestimated your humor's suckyness factor |
| 13:05.51 | josch | hehe |
| 13:06.00 | ccfly | oh my god the horror the horror ! |
| 13:07.10 | ccfly | although ... |
| 13:07.41 | ccfly | it's kinda minimalistic if you try to forget the grayness factor |
| 13:07.47 | ccfly | :) |
| 13:09.14 | *** join/#openmoko fehmicans (n=canavar@88.224.23.87) |
| 13:10.07 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:11.04 | ScaredyCat | grunts |
| 13:11.55 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@sci3510-d13a.morris.umn.edu) |
| 13:14.12 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 13:19.26 | cb22 | puts a muzzle on ScaredyCat |
| 13:19.48 | ScaredyCat | slaps cb22 a few more times.. |
| 13:20.04 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=aldwulf@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 13:20.29 | ScaredyCat | looks like my chancs of a t-shirt aren't that high either cb22 ;) |
| 13:21.36 | summatusmentis | why is that? |
| 13:22.32 | ScaredyCat | points at cb22's earlier quip.. |
| 13:23.11 | summatusmentis | I missed it |
| 13:23.19 | summatusmentis | I assumed you were talking about GSoC |
| 13:23.46 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
| 13:24.28 | ScaredyCat | nah... |
| 13:24.30 | ScaredyCat | he said I'd been downgraded from a gta02 to a t-shirt |
| 13:25.21 | summatusmentis | lol, oh |
| 13:26.31 | ScaredyCat | meanie |
| 13:26.48 | summatusmentis | so I got an image built yesterday, and when I tried to run |
| 13:26.53 | Sup3rkiddo | hi all, what i have been missing :D |
| 13:27.06 | summatusmentis | 'make qemu-local' it would fail, but I dom |
| 13:27.20 | summatusmentis | don't have the error message, suggestions? |
| 13:27.30 | summatusmentis | Sup3rkiddo: how are you? |
| 13:27.31 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: No worries, you still qualify for catnip either way |
| 13:27.40 | ScaredyCat | hehe |
| 13:27.48 | Sup3rkiddo | summatusmentis, doing good..thanks...and j00 |
| 13:28.43 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 13:29.02 | *** join/#openmoko robster (n=robster@light.bluelinux.co.uk) |
| 13:29.21 | summatusmentis | Sup3rkiddo: I'm well, tired, but I'm alright. Kinda just want SoC to be decided, so then I know whether or not I get a spot |
| 13:29.27 | summatusmentis | you know? I'm just impatient |
| 13:29.37 | Sup3rkiddo | me too...:D |
| 13:31.06 | thos | ScaredyCat, did you get a chance to try my theme engine? |
| 13:31.13 | *** join/#openmoko Robot101 (n=robot101@light.bluelinux.co.uk) |
| 13:31.22 | ScaredyCat | no, not yet thos... |
| 13:31.31 | thos | ScaredyCat, I just made some tweaks |
| 13:31.37 | ScaredyCat | I had an issue with it last night... |
| 13:31.38 | ccfly | it doesn't hae any cats ! |
| 13:31.40 | thos | ScaredyCat, most of the suggestions people made to me |
| 13:31.41 | ccfly | not worth trying ! :> |
| 13:31.56 | ScaredyCat | double commit of matchbox dir? |
| 13:32.21 | thos | erk |
| 13:32.22 | *** join/#openmoko andrunko (n=andrunko@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:32.35 | thos | ScaredyCat, I removed the svn:externals and commited a new version |
| 13:32.38 | thos | ScaredyCat, has that confused svn? |
| 13:32.55 | ScaredyCat | svn up was trying to crate the matchbox dir, but it's already there.. |
| 13:32.59 | ScaredyCat | create |
| 13:33.02 | thos | ah right |
| 13:33.06 | thos | so delete it |
| 13:33.10 | thos | svn is stupid |
| 13:33.16 | ScaredyCat | I blew away the existing one and did an svn cleanup... |
| 13:33.34 | ScaredyCat | which seeed to fix it, but thn I got distracted.. so that's where I stopped |
| 13:33.38 | thos | :-) |
| 13:33.40 | ScaredyCat | seemed |
| 13:39.42 | *** join/#openmoko tonyg_ (n=tonyg@host226.lshift.net) |
| 13:48.44 | *** join/#openmoko elation (i=elation@gateway/tor/x-31e558fb06940751) |
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| 14:01.05 | jamewill | hmmn.... wiki seems down |
| 14:02.15 | *** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@66.205.179.175) |
| 14:03.47 | dennda | jamewill: lists archive too |
| 14:04.16 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Mac37.m.pppool.de) |
| 14:10.07 | Zmx | Humm certainly a stupid question. OpenMoko/Freerunner is planned to be compatible with "android" ? |
| 14:10.32 | abraxa_ | Doubtful |
| 14:10.54 | Stephmw | really, you should be asking the question the other way around |
| 14:11.23 | Stephmw | the answer probably is... "Not invented at Google, move along" |
| 14:11.46 | thos | Zmx, no |
| 14:11.48 | ScaredyCat | http://svn.openmoko.org dead |
| 14:11.49 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 14:11.59 | Zmx | thos: thx |
| 14:12.03 | thos | Zmx, andriod is armv5 only, neo is armv4 |
| 14:12.19 | thos | ScaredyCat, working here |
| 14:12.30 | *** join/#openmoko christian__ (n=christia@p4FE5CA0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:12.31 | Zmx | oh, free runner too ? I'm confuse |
| 14:13.07 | thos | Zmx, same thing |
| 14:14.27 | Zmx | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:14.34 | christian__ | hi |
| 14:15.05 | christian__ | I've got a question, maybe it sounds a little dumb: |
| 14:15.30 | christian__ | Is there a chance that openmoko will ever run on an iPhone? |
| 14:15.55 | gambler | sure it could happen |
| 14:16.04 | gambler | i thought u were going to ask about the birds and bees |
| 14:16.05 | josch | christian__, it happens if linux runs on the iphone |
| 14:17.18 | ScaredyCat | well... |
| 14:17.18 | josch | thos, dead here too |
| 14:18.44 | zedstar | in a talk by a iphone fanboy right now |
| 14:18.53 | *** join/#openmoko wipf (n=wipf@dslb-084-056-242-176.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:19.14 | ScaredyCat | oooh shiney |
| 14:19.17 | ScaredyCat | e- |
| 14:19.25 | josch | zedstar, tell him his phone suxx :P |
| 14:19.33 | ScaredyCat | ask him if it's open |
| 14:19.44 | josch | ask him if he can install debian on it |
| 14:19.45 | zedstar | lol yeh im kil; |
| 14:20.10 | zedstar | killing time on irc instead |
| 14:21.05 | thos | zedstar, at the hackathon? |
| 14:21.13 | christian__ | i know that the iphone sucks! |
| 14:21.32 | christian__ | at least the software and the policy of apple |
| 14:21.41 | zedstar | thos yeh ...talks right now im waiting for the beer |
| 14:21.51 | wurp2|bye | What is the advantage of opkg over ipkg? |
| 14:21.59 | thos | wurp2|bye, I wrote it |
| 14:22.02 | thos | oh wait |
| 14:22.03 | thos | :-) |
| 14:22.03 | ScaredyCat | wurp2|bye: 6 |
| 14:22.25 | thos | wurp2|bye, it can do repository signiture checks |
| 14:22.32 | thos | wurp2|bye, it uses libcurl instead of wget |
| 14:22.45 | wurp2|bye | Cool, thanks |
| 14:22.46 | ScaredyCat | thos: but there's no info on what the sig is.. |
| 14:22.49 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@195.229.189.194) |
| 14:22.56 | thos | ScaredyCat, huh? |
| 14:22.57 | ScaredyCat | otherwise i'd actually take the time to generate it |
| 14:23.01 | thos | ScaredyCat, just sign a repository |
| 14:23.09 | thos | ScaredyCat, and then install the key on the neo |
| 14:23.12 | thos | so it can verify |
| 14:23.22 | ScaredyCat | hmmm |
| 14:23.53 | thos | wurp2, plus other misc. fixes |
| 14:24.04 | thos | wurp2, see wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Opkg when it's available |
| 14:24.29 | thos | eh, WFM again |
| 14:24.53 | wurp2 | OK, I was just wondering if I should install ipkg & stick with my old neo init script I run after installing a new image |
| 14:25.13 | josch | wurp2, google cache version: http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:8MQaKTkzTQkJ:wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Opkg&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=de&client=firefox-a |
| 14:25.17 | wurp2 | or convert to opkg & fix the things I depend on (like ipkg-link) that don't currently work w/opkg |
| 14:25.23 | thos | wurp2, most of the time you can "s/ipkg/opkg/" |
| 14:25.24 | ScaredyCat | decides not to sign any repo |
| 14:25.24 | wurp2 | josch: thx much! |
| 14:25.37 | thos | the wiki works fine for me :-/ |
| 14:25.42 | wurp2 | thos: I could if vi on the neo implemented s/ ;-) |
| 14:25.57 | thos | wurp2, use sed! |
| 14:26.01 | wurp2 | ew |
| 14:26.01 | Zmx | thos: yes, now it's up |
| 14:26.54 | thos | wurp2, sed -i -e 's/foo/bar/' <files> |
| 14:26.57 | thos | not hard |
| 14:27.14 | *** join/#openmoko flexd (n=kek@79.160.12.127) |
| 14:28.37 | wurp2 | No undo |
| 14:28.41 | wurp2 | I know sed isn't hard to use |
| 14:29.03 | thos | why do you need undo? :-P |
| 14:29.07 | wurp2 | But I quit using sed once I discovered perl, like 8 years ago |
| 14:29.10 | thos | is perfect every time |
| 14:29.40 | wurp2 | The same time I quit using awk |
| 14:30.03 | wurp2 | and migrated from bronze axes to iron |
| 14:32.43 | DPThough1 | indeed |
| 14:33.10 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4310 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/ (ChangeLog src/moko-draw.c): |
| 14:33.10 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 2008-04-04 Thomas Wood <thomas@openedhand.com> |
| 14:33.10 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * src/moko-draw.c: (moko_draw_check), (moko_draw_option): Force state |
| 14:33.10 | CIA-16 | openmoko: for unselected check/radio boxes. Fixes issues with check boxes in |
| 14:33.11 | CIA-16 | openmoko: treeviews. |
| 14:33.53 | ScaredyCat | just uses slaves |
| 14:36.14 | abraxa_ | http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GSOC/The+Rules - wow, that page makes the company sound like a bunch of guys who have their panties in a bind |
| 14:36.45 | abraxa_ | "There is a wealth of experience in software development at your finger tips. Don't waste it." |
| 14:39.11 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-209-209.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:39.52 | *** join/#openmoko tc (n=tc@acquiesce.sonicated.com) |
| 14:40.32 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@dsbg-4db7d4d5.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 14:43.46 | ScaredyCat | "In the contract world, non-delivery is unacceptable (unless it's for the government; or the Welsh development council)." |
| 14:45.18 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: Yeah, I read that, too. I would never do a SoC project for a company that uses google SoC students as cheap labor and treats them like crap |
| 14:46.07 | ScaredyCat | perhaps their attitude has something to do with all the 'failures' they keep having |
| 14:47.27 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-245-100.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:47.28 | *** join/#openmoko simon____ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 14:47.50 | wurp2 | I have worked on several projects as a contractor in which what we were building was of no use (and, while correctly completed, was of course never used) by the company paying us |
| 14:47.50 | *** join/#openmoko lunartear (n=cayres@ip68-103-160-30.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 14:48.14 | thos | ScaredyCat, where's that quote from? |
| 14:48.55 | ScaredyCat | http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GSOC/Absences in the 'Why we're so picky' bit |
| 14:49.16 | *** join/#openmoko Spydon (n=karin@h60n6c1o1036.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 14:49.19 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: I agree, though they seem to make a good job at scaring people off :) |
| 14:49.22 | thos | haha |
| 14:49.49 | ScaredyCat | I assume if no one wants to work with them Google rop them next year? |
| 14:49.57 | ScaredyCat | s/rop/drop/ |
| 14:54.35 | abraxa_ | Hopefully. I thought SoC was about students earning money while learning new things and helping the OSS crowd in the process - not about companies with ridiculous demands who expect students to be contract workers with completed education |
| 14:55.58 | *** join/#openmoko BlastuR (n=blastur@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 14:59.33 | cb22 | abraxa_: they sound rathe rbitchy |
| 14:59.57 | cb22 | eee 4g surf vs non surf, any major differences? |
| 15:00.09 | cb22 | besides a crappy little webcam |
| 15:00.54 | ScaredyCat | one comes with washin g poweder? |
| 15:01.14 | cb22 | dont you still have your muzzle on? |
| 15:02.27 | cb22 | ~lart ScaredyCat for not making enough images |
| 15:02.27 | apt | DoSes ScaredyCat for not making enough images |
| 15:03.34 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar_ (n=john@dyn891-196.ota.ichosted.org.uk) |
| 15:05.49 | ScaredyCat | wtf! |
| 15:05.58 | abraxa_ | lol... |
| 15:06.07 | abraxa_ | No Neo, no shirt, no love |
| 15:06.13 | abraxa_ | How sad. |
| 15:06.50 | ScaredyCat | sobs |
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| 15:10.17 | *** join/#openmoko eugeneoden (n=goden@rrcs-67-79-195-201.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 15:10.53 | ScaredyCat | ~lart everyone |
| 15:10.53 | apt | executes killall -KILL everyone |
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| 15:12.01 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 15:12.03 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 15:17.26 | freelock | cb22: recently got a eee 4g non surf, great little machine... |
| 15:17.41 | freelock | I think the surf doesn't let you add ram, and comes with a smaller battery |
| 15:19.15 | *** join/#openmoko adamblokus (n=adam@chello087206115169.chello.pl) |
| 15:23.28 | summatusmentis | freelock: is it nice? I was considering replacing my 3200 w/ a surf, how's the wifi antennae? |
| 15:23.46 | summatusmentis | s/surf/eee/ |
| 15:24.47 | freelock | It seems just fine... the built-in network management takes a while to connect, but the Xubuntu distro with network manager works great |
| 15:26.09 | abraxa_ | sends ScaredyCat female kitty doll with a heart-shaped pink collar |
| 15:26.12 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos) |
| 15:27.29 | ScaredyCat | grins.... an evil grin |
| 15:33.00 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=jts@velcro.morris.umn.edu) |
| 15:33.27 | ScaredyCat | wonders who keeps bacon in their wallet ;) |
| 15:34.20 | cb22 | freelock: hm :/ no ram upgrade would kill it for me |
| 15:34.26 | cb22 | i have a 2gb module just for it |
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| 15:35.35 | *** join/#openmoko eugeneoden_ (n=goden@rrcs-67-79-195-201.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 15:38.13 | cb22 | looks at ebay |
| 15:39.23 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=aldwulf@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 15:42.12 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=aldwulf@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 15:49.08 | *** join/#openmoko J-23 (n=aldwulf@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 15:49.46 | freelock | cb22: Yeah, that's why I skipped the surf |
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| 15:52.02 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: you have a freerunner? or at least a 1973> |
| 15:52.08 | summatusmentis | s/>/?/ |
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| 16:07.58 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 16:08.32 | summatusmentis | hi Sup3rkiddo |
| 16:08.46 | Sup3rkiddo | summatusmentis, howdy |
| 16:14.56 | *** join/#openmoko adamblokus (n=adam@chello087206115169.chello.pl) |
| 16:16.01 | cb22 | freelock: i think i'm going to do the same... know some people who know some distributors |
| 16:18.46 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@f051092143.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:22.15 | ScaredyCat | summatusmentis: I have an 01 |
| 16:22.38 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: how big is it? |
| 16:22.46 | summatusmentis | like, does it seem really fat? |
| 16:23.04 | ScaredyCat | < --------------------------------> [not to scale] |
| 16:23.20 | ScaredyCat | ok, lemmie find a ruler |
| 16:23.32 | summatusmentis | lol, I'm just curious as to how it feels in the hand |
| 16:24.08 | ScaredyCat | thickness about 1.9cm |
| 16:24.09 | zedstar | oooer misses |
| 16:24.33 | ScaredyCat | width 6.3cm |
| 16:24.53 | ScaredyCat | length 12.1cm |
| 16:24.58 | unknown_lamer | that is not that large ... my nokia 7610 is almost as thick |
| 16:25.06 | *** join/#openmoko grummel (n=Grummel@p5B16DF11.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:25.10 | summatusmentis | does it seem big in the hand? |
| 16:25.35 | ScaredyCat | are we still talking about the neo? |
| 16:25.36 | ScaredyCat | :P |
| 16:25.58 | DPThough1 | no, feels very smooth and easy in the hand. Fits to a hand. :) |
| 16:26.00 | Spydon | lol |
| 16:26.00 | ScaredyCat | no, it's fine, but I guess it depends on the size of your hand |
| 16:26.02 | zedstar | thought was in wrong chan for a sec |
| 16:26.25 | wurp2 | zedstar: heh |
| 16:26.37 | DPThough1 | It looks fat and honky with the fat rim around the screen and the rouned corners. But its only average not really fat |
| 16:26.41 | wurp2 | It is fine in my hand |
| 16:26.57 | DPThough1 | smaller than a iPhone but not as thin |
| 16:27.06 | wurp2 | I don't so much like the look either, and it's no razr, but it's not a brick |
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| 16:28.06 | DPThough1 | no moving parts. Very robust |
| 16:28.18 | DPThough1 | no sharp corners that break |
| 16:28.23 | wurp2 | as far as I know FR look & form factor are essentially identical to 01 |
| 16:28.32 | ScaredyCat | the case is the problem really, that 8 foot drop to the screen doesn't help |
| 16:28.44 | wurp2 | Yeah, I pop the back off all the time & have dropped it 3 ft to concrete, no effect |
| 16:28.51 | baze | does the screen get as dirty as other phone displays from fingerprints? |
| 16:29.09 | wurp2 | I've been impressed that the back still goes off & on w/o problems |
| 16:29.12 | wurp2 | baze: yep |
| 16:29.17 | ScaredyCat | only if you use your finger >:) |
| 16:29.19 | DPThough1 | baze: yeat. And terryble to clean because of the fat rim arount the creeen |
| 16:29.27 | baze | a friend has a dell pda and its display doesn't show any fingerprints |
| 16:29.32 | wurp2 | wow |
| 16:29.36 | baze | i was hoping for sth like that :/ |
| 16:29.45 | cb22 | anyone here have a neo, have cheap gprs, and feel like timing how long 500kb takes to download? |
| 16:29.46 | wurp2 | Is it because the display is already blurry & grainy? |
| 16:29.46 | DPThough1 | baze: stylus vs. finger ;) |
| 16:30.00 | baze | wurp2: no ;) |
| 16:30.05 | ScaredyCat | the feel of the case is nice though, sort of rubbery but not |
| 16:30.17 | wurp2 | ScaredyCat: agreed |
| 16:30.19 | DPThough1 | the disoay is one of the best i have ever seen on a mobile device |
| 16:30.23 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host14-224-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:30.24 | DPThough1 | display |
| 16:30.38 | wurp2 | I've never had a decent mobile before to compare it to ;-) |
| 16:30.53 | baze | i'm getting a bit afraid it could be too small |
| 16:30.59 | wurp2 | I was never willing to spend money on something that was totally subject to the carrier's whim |
| 16:31.03 | baze | i like the finger usage with the iphone |
| 16:31.06 | wurp2 | nor take on a 2 yr contract |
| 16:31.07 | piksi | DPThough1: display one of the best? what about glare? |
| 16:31.36 | piksi | one guy posted pics where it was looking nearly like a mirror in daylight conditions (no anti-glare coating apparently?) |
| 16:31.57 | cb22 | thats cool, mirror + phone for the price of a phone :p |
| 16:31.58 | DPThough1 | not perfect, but good |
| 16:32.09 | wurp2 | baze: Until someone (maybe me) puts together a full screen kbd (overlayed on the current app), the kbd is way too small for finger use |
| 16:32.20 | wurp2 | and the icons borderline for convenient finger use |
| 16:32.21 | piksi | as long as it's usable in daylight... :-) |
| 16:32.24 | ScaredyCat | programers never go out, what's the problem ;) |
| 16:32.39 | tc | haha |
| 16:32.41 | baze | hopefully a keyboard in landscape mode can work |
| 16:32.41 | wurp2 | (the main icons; the title bar ones are only marginally usable by finger) |
| 16:32.45 | piksi | well yeah. and being able to see the screen in all conditions is one of the fundamental points of a mobile device |
| 16:35.00 | DPThough1 | it's more on the glossy side. This makes it a mirror. But if you see it from a angle where you don't get the sun reflectet in your face it absorbs no light. So you see it well. Never feald it would be a problem in daylight |
| 16:35.40 | DPThough1 | The dpi are great. You can actually read text. :) |
| 16:36.02 | DPThough1 | thats key for me. I hate low dpi |
| 16:36.21 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E17ED0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:36.44 | piksi | DPThough1: could you comment on another feature i've been wondering about? since there's no proximity sensor for the screen, how does the screen react to your cheeck when you're calling with the phone? |
| 16:36.53 | piksi | getting a lot of mispresses? |
| 16:37.11 | wurp2 | piksi: The normal screen when you're on the phone only has 2 buttons |
| 16:37.14 | ScaredyCat | has never had a mis-press |
| 16:37.24 | wurp2 | at the top, hang up &, hmm, something else |
| 16:37.33 | piksi | wurp2: wouldn't that depend on what kind of gui one is using on it? ;-) |
| 16:37.34 | ahven | mute? |
| 16:37.35 | wurp2 | and a volume control that you have to drag near teh bottom |
| 16:37.44 | piksi | s/gui/skin/ |
| 16:37.58 | wurp2 | Right now, when you make or get a call, the gsm call-handle-thingy gui is what always shows up |
| 16:38.06 | piksi | damn you autocorrection! |
| 16:38.27 | DPThough1 | piksi: well, this is the only moment where the deep cavity for the screen becomes handy. |
| 16:38.41 | wurp2 | I still have oil on the screen sometimes from it touching my face |
| 16:38.48 | wurp2 | but never a mispress |
| 16:38.55 | piksi | DPThough1: i was wondering if that would be enough to keep the cheek far away enough :-) |
| 16:39.00 | piksi | ok, that's nice to hear |
| 16:39.11 | mwester | hands wurp2 a paper towel to wash his face with |
| 16:39.14 | wurp2 | but if you had icons all over the screen during a call, I would expect a mispress |
| 16:39.20 | piksi | i still would have preferred a hw implemented light/proximity sensor but perhaps in the future :-) |
| 16:39.39 | piksi | because as the platform is open, someone might develop a popular gui with a lot of buttons |
| 16:39.43 | piksi | oslt |
| 16:40.03 | DPThough1 | i hate the border around the screen. It looks ugly, you cant touch things in the faar corners and you cant whipe your screen off on your cloth. |
| 16:41.05 | DPThough1 | piksi: the phone has less buttons while in call mode. You really need to be lucky to press one of them. |
| 16:41.10 | ScaredyCat | can't touch this.... |
| 16:41.14 | ScaredyCat | do do de do |
| 16:41.54 | DPThough1 | ScaredyCat: yea, i feel the rythm of the 90s |
| 16:42.09 | wurp2 | piksi: Well, when it gets a call, you normally only want a button to hang up & change volume, and one to escape that screen so you can do more |
| 16:42.18 | wurp2 | likewise when you call out |
| 16:42.23 | ScaredyCat | piksi: iirc there is a possibility of light sensing on the power management chip |
| 16:42.36 | ahven | <ScaredyCat> can't touch this.... << hmm, idea for a ringtone :P |
| 16:42.38 | wurp2 | why spend money, space & power on hw for that? |
| 16:42.54 | DPThough1 | just slammed his phne against different parts of his face. it never klicket |
| 16:43.00 | ScaredyCat | ahven: :D |
| 16:43.02 | DPThough1 | s/phne/phone/ |
| 16:43.49 | ScaredyCat | not actually on the chip, but it has pinouts to attach a photo diode to |
| 16:43.55 | DPThough1 | Oh, missed the chin. I got a klick there... |
| 16:44.03 | *** join/#openmoko adamblokus (n=adam@chello087206115169.chello.pl) |
| 16:44.25 | ScaredyCat | you're chinning your mobile |
| 16:44.32 | mwester | Of course, if you're slamming the display of the neo on your chin, you're probably not listening to the phone anyway... |
| 16:44.53 | wurp2 | ahven: I think the people around you might have to 'accidentally' stomp your sturdy neo until it breaks if you choose that... |
| 16:45.17 | DPThough1 | just beeing accurate |
| 16:45.26 | wurp2 | Someone near me has some fucking marching band midi music as their ring tone |
| 16:45.58 | wurp2 | and they leave the phone at their desk any time they leave. The temptation to plant porn on their pc to get them fired is almost overpowering |
| 16:46.07 | ScaredyCat | debates the squrrels ringtone as the default for images :) |
| 16:46.19 | baze | i wondered if pulseaudio was small enough, or the neo was powerfull enough to run pulseaudio in a usefull way, whatever way around you like ;) |
| 16:46.50 | unknown_lamer | pulseaudio seems a bit much |
| 16:46.50 | wurp2 | baze: ? I didn't understand that |
| 16:46.54 | baze | it would be cool to just use avahi and use sound systems running pulse+avahi to use them to play music over wifi |
| 16:46.57 | unknown_lamer | and kind of shitty |
| 16:47.03 | wurp2 | The neo can play whatever kind of music you want |
| 16:47.24 | baze | yeah, but pulse can use remote sound devices to stream over the network |
| 16:47.33 | wurp2 | pulseaudio on the neo is vastly better since someone fixed the sync issue |
| 16:47.39 | *** join/#openmoko ccfly (n=ccfly@89.212.76.77) |
| 16:47.41 | wurp2 | baze: ah, now it makes sense |
| 16:47.42 | Stephmw | wurp2: and here I thought it could only play a squarewave at 15kHz |
| 16:48.12 | wurp2 | Stephmw: I'm trying to figure out in what way you're being sarcastic... |
| 16:48.17 | baze | just discover the sound device on a media pc and play your music over that |
| 16:48.20 | wurp2 | Is the neo limited to 15kHz? |
| 16:48.24 | baze | would be cool, imho |
| 16:48.43 | wurp2 | It can't be... |
| 16:49.02 | wurp2 | so nm |
| 16:49.33 | cb22 | hm, mencoders kb == 1000bits |
| 16:49.51 | *** join/#openmoko adamblokus (n=adam@chello087206115169.chello.pl) |
| 16:50.00 | Stephmw | wurp2: it was as a response to "The neo can play whatever kind of music you want" - which I chose to twist to mean "somebody thinks it'll only play one type of music" |
| 16:50.04 | Stephmw | wurp2: no biggie |
| 16:50.19 | wurp2 | Stephmw: Yeah, I was just trying to figure out what the heck baze was talking about |
| 16:50.27 | wurp2 | now I know |
| 16:50.44 | Stephmw | 'k |
| 16:50.51 | baze | sorry for talking in weird ways now and then ;) |
| 16:51.05 | DPThough1 | aaaah. I think there is no point anymore in laughing about this joke now :) |
| 16:51.14 | abraxa_ | baze: Your idea is intriguing, however |
| 16:51.50 | unknown_lamer | oh sweet there is finally a midi routing library for CL |
| 16:52.17 | unknown_lamer | this will be fun (using the freerunner as a control surface attached to my computer/keyboard) |
| 16:54.27 | cb22 | could you use it as a joystick? |
| 16:54.37 | cb22 | with accelerometers |
| 16:56.04 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@plc9-214.linzag.net) |
| 16:56.33 | DPThough1 | imagines free hand theremin, rattles and snares |
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| 16:59.36 | ScaredyCat | there's not much free ram is there :( |
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| 17:06.17 | piksi | wurp2: yes i know what normally one would want to do but imo it would be dumb to restrict the phone in such way. for example someone might want to have a phone call while doing some pda stuff which for some reason would be clumsy to hide behind extra buttons |
| 17:06.41 | DPThough1 | ScaredyCat: i think he only wants to control another instruments via midi. Probably pitchbend foobar or something like the Korg KaosPad |
| 17:06.57 | RedDog | can gta01 suspend, if i stop pulseaudio,gsmd,bluetooth,blueprobe,xserver and rmmod all modules?? |
| 17:07.24 | RedDog | i get only a "suspending console(s)" ... |
| 17:08.34 | DPThough1 | piksi: if you don't feel lucky switch the phone back tho the dialer app before you slap it againts your spiky ears ;) |
| 17:08.42 | *** join/#openmoko adamblokus (n=adam@chello087206115169.chello.pl) |
| 17:09.27 | SpeedEvil | Stephmw: you're misunderstanding the sampling. There is a filter after the D/A. This reconstructs a sine-wave from the input signal. See nyquist,Shannon. |
| 17:09.32 | SpeedEvil | ste |
| 17:11.21 | zedstar | just about to sit thru a qtopia talk |
| 17:12.01 | zedstar | nudge me if i fall asleep |
| 17:15.03 | DPThough1 | hm. Makes me think... One more stupid use case for the accelerometers. Strap the phone on your head and if it tilts in any direction it sounds a alarm. Keeps you awake in long meetings |
| 17:15.51 | DPThough1 | may look silly though... |
| 17:15.56 | ccfly | nah |
| 17:16.05 | ccfly | It will look great on you |
| 17:16.08 | ccfly | don't worry |
| 17:16.09 | ccfly | :> |
| 17:16.25 | ccfly | in fact everyone will want to see it |
| 17:16.28 | ccfly | so bring a camera |
| 17:16.40 | *** join/#openmoko karin (n=karin@h60n6c1o1036.bredband.skanova.com) |
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| 17:17.11 | anrp | a video camera |
| 17:19.28 | DPThough1 | ccfly: actually i did something like this already. I tested Navit navigation on a bicycle some time ago. I needed both hands and the sound was too low for putting it into my pockts. So i strapped it under the brim of my cap and secured it with my headphones. :) |
| 17:19.44 | DPThough1 | It was night, noone has seen me |
| 17:20.05 | zedstar | im armed with n810 only |
| 17:22.22 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A578E2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:23.06 | cb22 | anyone with a neo and mplayer around? |
| 17:24.02 | DPThough1 | zedstar: nice device tough. I sold my N770 for my Neo. But was realy fun. But only marginally usefull. :) |
| 17:24.07 | ahven | cb22: meme :) |
| 17:24.16 | cb22 | hehe |
| 17:24.18 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=snoopdog@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 17:24.43 | cb22 | ahven: ok, i'm uploading the video to my server quickly... |
| 17:25.01 | ahven | cb22: starting up neo then |
| 17:25.35 | zedstar | im ircing from it the keyboard helps |
| 17:26.07 | ahven | huh?:) |
| 17:26.59 | cb22 | ok ahven, could you download http://cb22.za.net/videos/nocabac.mkv to your neo normally please? (adsl / whatever :) |
| 17:28.18 | ahven | downloaded, have to install mplayer on this build also |
| 17:29.13 | cb22 | the magic command line: mplayer -framedrop -vf scale=320:240 -sws 0 nocabac.mkv |
| 17:30.11 | DPThough1 | zedstar: indeed |
| 17:30.30 | ScaredyCat | it's tiny cb22! |
| 17:30.49 | cb22 | ScaredyCat: in which sense :) |
| 17:31.12 | ScaredyCat | in the tiny video sense |
| 17:31.29 | ScaredyCat | and of course it doesn't go away |
| 17:31.32 | ahven | Package ncurses wants to install file /usr/lib/libncurses.so.5.4 |
| 17:31.32 | ahven | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:31.32 | ahven | Package ncurses wants to install file /usr/lib/libncurses.so.5 |
| 17:31.32 | ahven | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:31.33 | ahven | bah |
| 17:31.51 | ahven | fresh snapshot, 29 or 31 of March |
| 17:32.02 | dcordes | ahven, checl ipkg --force options in ipkg --help |
| 17:32.04 | DPThough1 | ahven: you can force it. :) |
| 17:32.32 | *** join/#openmoko miip__ (n=miip@p54A57990.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:32.37 | ScaredyCat | cb22: is this your viceo encoder thingy? |
| 17:32.43 | cb22 | ScaredyCat: yeah |
| 17:32.45 | ScaredyCat | video |
| 17:32.49 | cb22 | but... this is with nocabac |
| 17:32.57 | ScaredyCat | cool, if a little small L:( |
| 17:33.01 | cb22 | and no bframes, it makes it a lot easier to decode |
| 17:33.13 | cb22 | ScaredyCat: well, it has to go over gprs |
| 17:33.20 | cb22 | and it looks better then 320x240 |
| 17:33.39 | ScaredyCat | ahh, ok, I was looking at it as a neo encoder :) |
| 17:34.21 | SpeedEvil | Doesn't no bframes mean it's substantially less error resistance? |
| 17:34.33 | cb22 | i thought it would be more |
| 17:34.47 | cb22 | i -> p -> b |
| 17:35.22 | ahven | cb22: seems much better from the previous version |
| 17:35.47 | cb22 | any lag? |
| 17:36.14 | ahven | not noticing |
| 17:36.29 | cb22 | :) |
| 17:36.54 | cb22 | at 320x240 scaled, right? |
| 17:37.05 | ahven | fVO: [x11] 320x240 => 320x256 BGR 16-bit |
| 17:37.18 | ahven | -f |
| 17:37.30 | ScaredyCat | bbiab |
| 17:38.15 | cb22 | ahven: :) |
| 17:38.43 | cb22 | i dont suppose you know how to put your neo in 320x240 mode? |
| 17:39.26 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:39.32 | *** join/#openmoko zash (n=zash@82.182.247.191) |
| 17:39.49 | ahven | I could look at X-s config |
| 17:40.30 | SpeedEvil | The simple way would seem to be to hae another VT with X started at 320*240 |
| 17:40.37 | SpeedEvil | I never got that working when I tried it |
| 17:41.07 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@h-2-44.A146.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 17:41.13 | *** join/#openmoko josch (n=josch@p57AD5822.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:42.43 | ahven | ugh |
| 17:42.48 | ahven | purple screen :P |
| 17:43.23 | ahven | SpeedEvil: how? :) |
| 17:43.37 | SpeedEvil | how did I not get it working? |
| 17:43.48 | ahven | virtual terminal |
| 17:43.50 | SpeedEvil | Xfbdev -foo :2 |
| 17:43.55 | SpeedEvil | chvt |
| 17:45.04 | ahven | hm |
| 17:45.13 | ahven | but still it kindof mirrors the screen |
| 17:45.17 | ahven | top & bottom |
| 17:46.24 | *** join/#openmoko CIA-16 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 17:46.53 | cb22 | ahven: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Video_Player |
| 17:46.58 | cb22 | you seen that? |
| 17:47.03 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-151-145-77.range86-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:50.48 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa__ (n=abraxa@pD95FEB03.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:52.53 | *** join/#openmoko Quadduc (n=stian@90.149.198.188) |
| 17:55.10 | ahven | hmm, /sys/devices/platform/s3c24xx-spi-gpio.1/spi0.0/state is now ...? |
| 17:55.25 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@68.27.116.177) |
| 17:57.48 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFC96E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:58.41 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: I was kidding that the neo was a monotone output device ;) |
| 17:58.44 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=avr@3e70d12b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 18:00.00 | SpeedEvil | Oh - fair enough - it's just many people misunderstand the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem. |
| 18:00.10 | cb22 | s/mis// |
| 18:00.21 | cb22 | s/mis/dont / |
| 18:00.39 | SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist-Shannon_sampling_theorem |
| 18:00.56 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Mac37.m.pppool.de) |
| 18:02.50 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: I will likely never fully understand that entry - I've forgotten most of my eeng studying |
| 18:03.05 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: I can barely integrate stuff nowdays ;) |
| 18:03.49 | SpeedEvil | Broadly - you can reconstruct a signal sampled at xHz accurately, as long as it has no frequency components above x/2Hz |
| 18:04.03 | cb22 | Stephmw: its simple, you see, you just smoke some powerful stuff before reading it |
| 18:04.17 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: ah, ok |
| 18:04.17 | SpeedEvil | In reality - x/abit more than 2 Hz - due to realisable filters. |
| 18:04.47 | SpeedEvil | So for a 44KHz sampling, you can represent signals up to ideally 22KHz, practically somewhere around 20KHz |
| 18:05.12 | SpeedEvil | is currently trying to wrap his head round the discrete cosine transform. |
| 18:05.13 | ahven | out of curiosity, has anyone tried making neo dialup server? :) |
| 18:05.28 | ahven | a dialup* |
| 18:05.38 | SpeedEvil | you mean plugin a USB modem? |
| 18:05.59 | ahven | no...dialing in through gsm |
| 18:06.09 | anrp | it ought to work |
| 18:06.13 | anrp | if your carrier permits csd |
| 18:07.17 | *** join/#openmoko quicksand (i=3f51a178@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-07598142a380e9e8) |
| 18:07.33 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: I only ever implemented the dct (and idct) from specs, understanding largely not required |
| 18:07.54 | SpeedEvil | I'm trying to implement JPEG encoding and decoding on a 32 bit processor. |
| 18:08.00 | SpeedEvil | With 20K memory. |
| 18:08.12 | SpeedEvil | 20K fast memory that is. |
| 18:08.27 | Stephmw | figures... guess what I was implementing |
| 18:08.40 | Stephmw | in j2me though, not native |
| 18:09.46 | *** join/#openmoko adamblokus (n=adam@chello087206115169.chello.pl) |
| 18:09.48 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 18:13.37 | anrp | hm, t-mobile pay as you go doesn't allow csd |
| 18:13.46 | anrp | :\ |
| 18:13.48 | summatusmentis | csd? |
| 18:13.52 | anrp | postpaid allows csd |
| 18:13.58 | anrp | data call |
| 18:13.58 | mwester | csd? |
| 18:14.19 | cb22 | circut switched data |
| 18:14.20 | mwester | Oh. That's right. Except you can kinda connect to their services, at least enough to make sure ppp works, IIRC |
| 18:14.28 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't look _too_ bad - I just about have enough memory to store a 8 line Y band, with the decimated U and V bands. Then in-place DCT 8*8 blocks. |
| 18:15.06 | summatusmentis | anrp: oh, I see |
| 18:15.14 | anrp | otherwise id tell you, ahven |
| 18:16.30 | *** join/#openmoko lut4rp (n=pratul@122.162.89.156) |
| 18:17.56 | *** join/#openmoko astro76 (n=jtaji@unaffiliated/astro76) |
| 18:18.08 | anrp | i know csd works between two t-mobile postpaid sim cards (but not using a neo) |
| 18:18.22 | anrp | i dont have a second sim card handy, though |
| 18:18.28 | wurp2 | Nyquist-Shannon is why I knew Stephmw was full of it re: the 15 kHz square wave |
| 18:18.35 | wurp2 | although I didn't know the name |
| 18:18.51 | wurp2 | s/know/remember/ |
| 18:19.59 | cb22 | how is a csd call different from a normal one? |
| 18:20.05 | SpeedEvil | data circuit |
| 18:20.46 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@pD9E088E8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:20.51 | SpeedEvil | it's the setup that's - largely - different. |
| 18:20.55 | anrp | it can be (usually is) error-corrected, i.e. transparent |
| 18:20.57 | anrp | so it can lag |
| 18:21.22 | SpeedEvil | But is usually an order of magnitude or better less lag. |
| 18:21.32 | anrp | than gprs, indeed |
| 18:22.08 | anrp | and a guarenteed amount of data speed (assuming no data dropouts) |
| 18:22.12 | anrp | not "whenever the network is idle" |
| 18:22.36 | cb22 | nothing like a guarenteed 9.6kbit/s |
| 18:22.47 | anrp | hey, you can send voice down that ;o |
| 18:22.54 | *** part/#openmoko lut4rp (n=pratul@122.162.89.156) |
| 18:22.59 | cb22 | encrypted voice too :) |
| 18:23.04 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@f053153021.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:23.04 | anrp | perhaps |
| 18:23.07 | anrp | eyes the .. tamil? |
| 18:24.19 | anrp | wonders if he should replace his vocal chords with a buzzer and a tube |
| 18:31.18 | *** join/#openmoko mathroc (n=mathieu@79.86.133.16) |
| 18:37.26 | *** join/#openmoko RayDar (n=raydar@c-67-171-26-100.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:37.45 | *** join/#openmoko rst9288 (i=TechnoRa@203.187.199.36) |
| 18:38.01 | RayDar | tries the ScaredyCat image from two days ago |
| 18:38.19 | rst9288 | hi |
| 18:38.52 | rst9288 | Is daniel out there?? |
| 18:39.07 | rst9288 | hello |
| 18:39.16 | RayDar | I am not Daniel |
| 18:39.21 | ajbrun | no, but ajbrun is |
| 18:39.36 | RayDar | Well, then, who is Herbert? |
| 18:39.45 | anrp | points to RayDar |
| 18:39.53 | ajbrun | he's not Daniel either |
| 18:39.57 | RayDar | is One |
| 18:39.57 | rst9288 | neways wanted to discuss about that bluetooth adhoc development project... |
| 18:39.58 | ajbrun | he's herbert |
| 18:40.19 | rst9288 | can i have any mentor to discuss with?? |
| 18:41.22 | wurp2 | rst9288: I don't think there's a mentor in the channel now |
| 18:41.46 | wurp2 | rst9288: You're probably better off sending private email than trying to catch them on the channel |
| 18:42.03 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=bmk789@32.147.4.88) |
| 18:42.04 | wurp2 | Unless you just want to channel squat for many hours :-) |
| 18:42.51 | rst9288 | ok |
| 18:42.54 | *** part/#openmoko rst9288 (i=TechnoRa@203.187.199.36) |
| 18:45.57 | wurp2 | Hmm, ajbrun, are you Daniel the mentor that rst9288 was apparently looking for? |
| 18:46.08 | ajbrun | no... |
| 18:46.14 | ajbrun | i am ajbrun |
| 18:47.31 | RayDar | does squats in the channel |
| 18:47.43 | quicksand | josch: ping |
| 18:47.55 | josch | quicksand, wohoo! |
| 18:48.02 | josch | i was just crawling through my log |
| 18:48.09 | josch | because i forgot your nick :P |
| 18:48.18 | quicksand | josch: I didn't get a chance to run through the manual steps last night (relatives visiting) |
| 18:48.26 | josch | i just made another tar |
| 18:48.30 | josch | and tested it |
| 18:48.34 | josch | it worked!! |
| 18:48.40 | josch | so I'm currently uploading it |
| 18:48.46 | josch | 2h remaining |
| 18:48.51 | quicksand | Groovy. I'll try it. |
| 18:48.57 | josch | great! |
| 18:49.01 | quicksand | What, 2h? Are you connected via carrier pigeon? |
| 18:49.07 | josch | -.- |
| 18:49.12 | josch | i have normal DSL here |
| 18:49.18 | josch | 128kBit/s upstream |
| 18:49.22 | quicksand | Ah. |
| 18:49.46 | josch | 36% are already finished |
| 18:49.57 | josch | if this is up - it will work for sure for you! |
| 18:50.07 | quicksand | Just to make sure I wasn't doing something else terribly wrong, I put an openmoko image on a different card partition, and that boots fine. |
| 18:50.21 | quicksand | So I'm looking forward to yours. Should be good, I'm thinking. |
| 18:50.27 | wurp2 | ajbrun: hmm, "RayDar> I am not Daniel", "ajbrun> no, but ajbrun is" |
| 18:50.44 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@81.84.156.87) |
| 18:50.57 | RayDar | wonders how to setup an application development environment |
| 18:51.13 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@195.229.66.181) |
| 18:51.13 | ajbrun | [19:38:54] <rst9288> Is daniel out there?? |
| 18:51.14 | ajbrun | [19:39:23] <ajbrun> no, but ajbrun is |
| 18:51.22 | josch | RayDar, depends on what you want to develop |
| 18:51.37 | wurp2 | RayDar's message being in between kind of made that hard to understand :-) |
| 18:51.47 | ajbrun | i know, sorry :p |
| 18:51.51 | RayDar | wurp2: What would be the categories? |
| 18:51.53 | quicksand | Who Herbert is depends on what RayDar wants to develop? |
| 18:52.10 | wurp2 | RayDar: core app, or a new userspace app |
| 18:52.15 | wurp2 | python or C |
| 18:52.28 | RayDar | wurp2: userspace |
| 18:52.35 | wurp2 | Toolchain should work then |
| 18:52.36 | RayDar | wurp2: C |
| 18:52.40 | wurp2 | On the wiki |
| 18:52.56 | RayDar | scours a wiki |
| 18:52.59 | wurp2 | You have a neo? |
| 18:53.08 | wurp2 | Search for Toolchain should take you straight to it, I think |
| 18:53.41 | RayDar | KO. Yeah, I got a GTA01 with the debug board. |
| 18:53.48 | wurp2 | cool |
| 18:54.23 | *** join/#openmoko sunny (n=saurabhg@59.178.58.230) |
| 18:54.29 | sunny | s |
| 18:58.16 | abraxa__ | ScaredyCat: Is http://buildhost.automated.it/sdk/openmoko-P1-Snapshot-20080122-armv4t-linux-gnueabi-toolchain-openmoko.tar.bz2 the latest toolchain you have? |
| 18:58.59 | ScaredyCat | abraxa__: I haven't built a new one lateley - the build of it has been broken ... will try tonight |
| 18:59.08 | abraxa__ | Ah okay |
| 18:59.18 | abraxa__ | So RayDar, that link there is what you could use, for example |
| 18:59.35 | RayDar | thanks abracadabra |
| 18:59.46 | abraxa__ | heh ;) |
| 19:00.13 | RayDar | is away: Food |
| 19:00.48 | *** join/#openmoko tombhadAC (n=tombhad@pD95DC635.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:03.11 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@plc9-214.linzag.net) |
| 19:05.40 | orospakr | I think I keep poking the "hang up" button with my ear. |
| 19:05.49 | orospakr | I think that classifies as a usability problem. ;) |
| 19:06.33 | wurp2 | orospakr: Ouch! |
| 19:06.46 | wurp2 | orospakr: You should take off your Spock ears before answering the phone |
| 19:06.49 | orospakr | I just hung up on my vet's secretary by mistake... :) |
| 19:06.56 | orospakr | wellllll |
| 19:07.00 | orospakr | I'm pretty sure I'm human. |
| 19:07.02 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789_ (n=bmk789@c-98-222-247-219.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 19:07.17 | ccfly | how can we be certain of that |
| 19:07.21 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=snoopdog@unaffiliated/dcordes) |
| 19:07.29 | wurp2 | Well, if I thought you were vulcan I wouldn't suggest you take off the ears. That would hurt. |
| 19:07.39 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak (n=stefreak@frnk-4d015f8e.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:07.39 | ccfly | you could any kind of alien species bent on operating GTa02 with your freaky ears :> |
| 19:07.47 | ccfly | be |
| 19:08.00 | ccfly | put in missing words where appropriate :) |
| 19:08.01 | orospakr | I'm not cool enough for that; GTA01 here. ;) |
| 19:08.56 | wurp2 | Yeah, if you had an 02 you could write something to try to detect "phone lifted to ear" and go into some kind of 'confirm clicks' mode |
| 19:09.15 | *** join/#openmoko Fradeve (n=fradeve@87.13.133.148) |
| 19:10.02 | ccfly | maybe you could hang up by a gesture |
| 19:10.12 | ccfly | and a shortcut on power button |
| 19:10.13 | SpeedEvil | Throwing the phone across the room? |
| 19:10.20 | ccfly | that might work |
| 19:10.29 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@p54BC470A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:10.41 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:11.21 | ccfly | maybe if you had to hold hangup for a limited time period |
| 19:11.30 | ccfly | for it to be activated |
| 19:11.42 | ccfly | any of those would be probably fine |
| 19:13.53 | SpeedEvil | Voice recognition. |
| 19:14.10 | SpeedEvil | 'Enterprise - 1 to beam up.' Plays the appropriate sound, then hangs up. |
| 19:15.39 | orospakr | ccfly, I was thinking of just a simple keypad lock type thing that is displayed while the call is up. |
| 19:16.04 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@90-227-33-55-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 19:16.10 | spydon | as |
| 19:16.17 | spydon | oops |
| 19:18.05 | cb22 | i read something about gta02's accelerometers and sensing height |
| 19:18.09 | cb22 | and truth? |
| 19:18.24 | wurp2 | You can't sense height w/ accelerometer |
| 19:18.32 | cb22 | boo :( |
| 19:18.35 | wurp2 | unless you knew the height a short period of time ago from some other source |
| 19:18.43 | wurp2 | You can get the altitude from gps |
| 19:18.43 | ccfly | you can't do that with accelerometers unless you know original altitude |
| 19:18.48 | ccfly | no |
| 19:18.50 | josch | and even then this is not very accurate |
| 19:19.00 | wurp2 | true |
| 19:19.05 | ccfly | not even clise to accurate |
| 19:19.08 | cb22 | yeah |
| 19:19.12 | ccfly | o |
| 19:19.18 | cb22 | what if |
| 19:20.13 | cb22 | if user moves phone up, and call is in progress === lock screen |
| 19:20.13 | cb22 | user moves phone down == unlock screen |
| 19:20.13 | wurp2 | sure |
| 19:20.14 | wurp2 | You can probably do a little better than that |
| 19:20.14 | josch | but you dont need to know the height for this |
| 19:20.14 | wurp2 | Detecting the angle of motion, how far it moves, etc. |
| 19:20.15 | cb22 | josch: yeah |
| 19:20.18 | cb22 | indeed |
| 19:20.22 | josch | you only need to know in which direction it is accelerated |
| 19:20.52 | cb22 | like when you use it as a phone, it will be parrallel to the side of your head |
| 19:21.24 | cb22 | going from being at 90 degrees |
| 19:21.36 | cb22 | unless you hold your phone weirdly |
| 19:22.10 | RedDog | anybody knows, what is wrong here: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/0ea7463164c600b87f08d74898a01873.png ? |
| 19:22.40 | ccfly | sweet bug |
| 19:23.26 | josch | RedDog, happens |
| 19:23.33 | josch | restart matchbox |
| 19:23.41 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789_ (n=bmk789@c-98-222-247-219.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 19:24.09 | *** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 19:24.14 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 19:24.19 | RedDog | josch: it's on every boot ... |
| 19:24.32 | josch | lol? |
| 19:24.57 | RedDog | it's a build from my mokomakefile... is there anything broken? |
| 19:25.07 | josch | appearently... |
| 19:25.11 | ScaredyCat | looks like a matchbox error |
| 19:26.25 | ScaredyCat | error as in config error |
| 19:26.51 | RedDog | but it's not my main problem, and when nobody else has it ... |
| 19:26.57 | SpeedEvil | RedDog: it's been broken for me similar to that in the past week |
| 19:27.02 | SpeedEvil | how did you ss that? |
| 19:27.21 | SpeedEvil | Oh - there may be a subtle clue in the picture. |
| 19:27.24 | ScaredyCat | points at the picture |
| 19:27.26 | SpeedEvil | Is that command-linable? |
| 19:27.48 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@pD9E0906E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:27.49 | ScaredyCat | cat /dev/fb0 >myfile.raw |
| 19:28.07 | ScaredyCat | or fbgrab |
| 19:28.13 | RedDog | ss that? command-linable? |
| 19:28.22 | SpeedEvil | finds svn: Failed to add directory 'trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/libraries/moko-gtk-engine/data/matchbox': object of the same name already exist' |
| 19:28.26 | SpeedEvil | on make update |
| 19:28.29 | SpeedEvil | screenshot |
| 19:28.37 | SpeedEvil | can be run from the command line |
| 19:28.39 | ScaredyCat | SpeedEvil: rm that matchbox dir |
| 19:28.44 | ScaredyCat | and then update again |
| 19:32.54 | Qwell | you'll need to svn cleanup that dir |
| 19:32.58 | Qwell | or, the parent dir |
| 19:33.08 | Qwell | after the rm, that is |
| 19:33.14 | ScaredyCat | blames thos |
| 19:33.46 | cb22 | svn blame thos |
| 19:34.05 | ScaredyCat | well... it's his theme... |
| 19:35.03 | RedDog | in the default gta01 kernel, is there CONFIG_S3C2410_PM_CHECK set? |
| 19:36.14 | *** join/#openmoko anrp (n=anrp@ATOCHA.MIT.EDU) |
| 19:36.21 | cb22 | shameless steals code from SettingsGUI for youplay |
| 19:37.05 | ScaredyCat | pooplay |
| 19:37.48 | ScaredyCat | viewBoob |
| 19:37.57 | wurp2 | shameless theft of code is what FOSS is all about |
| 19:38.47 | ccfly | code reuse is preffered term |
| 19:39.40 | baze_ | is there anyone from koblenz here who has a neo? |
| 19:40.06 | abraxa__ | baze_: Koblenz near Trier? |
| 19:40.12 | baze_ | yep |
| 19:40.20 | abraxa__ | #neo1973-germany |
| 19:40.24 | abraxa__ | ;p |
| 19:40.25 | wurp2 | ccfly: Dunno, to me code reuse implies within a project |
| 19:40.32 | wurp2 | and better not involve cut & paste |
| 19:41.15 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 19:41.32 | *** join/#openmoko ragavendra_bn (n=root@59.92.129.108) |
| 19:42.13 | ccfly | that's internal code reuse |
| 19:42.20 | ragavendra_bn | hai all |
| 19:42.28 | ccfly | external involves using 3rd party components |
| 19:42.49 | ccfly | hopefully not of copy, paste, modify licence type |
| 19:43.00 | ragavendra_bn | I am trying to rum openmoko on Qemu |
| 19:43.14 | ragavendra_bn | run |
| 19:43.31 | ragavendra_bn | I get kernel panic ven I select BOOT |
| 19:43.49 | ragavendra_bn | it says try giving init= |
| 19:43.55 | ragavendra_bn | any help |
| 19:45.11 | *** part/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 19:46.36 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@pD9E0906E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:49.03 | wurp2 | I'm just saying that I like to distinguish carefully between "real" code reuse and copying |
| 19:49.46 | wurp2 | I always want to think carefully about copying. Of course, if you don't have any control over the code, and it's not exposed in a stable interface, you have no choice but to copy |
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| 19:56.54 | *** part/#openmoko BenO (n=BenO@152.78.250.122) |
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| 20:01.22 | RedDog | Hu, the matchbox bug was resolved in Revision 3425... my working copy is actual... but for an unknown reason the file on my neo isn't ... after a quick manual cleanup all looks fine! ;) |
| 20:02.03 | ragavendra_bn | how to create init image for OpenMoko on Quemu |
| 20:03.46 | wurp2 | matchbox bug? |
| 20:04.17 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=fz@ppp-88-217-81-252.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:05.38 | RedDog | wurp2: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/0ea7463164c600b87f08d74898a01873.png |
| 20:07.30 | wurp2 | O, I never saw that |
| 20:07.53 | wurp2 | ragavendra_bn: You want to build it, or just get one on there? |
| 20:08.40 | RedDog | can somebody tell me the difference if neo is woken up by power- or by aux-button? |
| 20:09.10 | wurp2 | if you wake it with power button, it never works. Aux works sometimes ;-) |
| 20:09.45 | wurp2 | afaik it's just a different interrupt, presumably with different stuff listening for it. I don't know the details |
| 20:11.30 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 20:11.30 | RedDog | wurp2: i noticed that the device wakes up with power, but only once and then the button is dead ... aux only sometimes works, but it is not dead after it. |
| 20:11.58 | *** part/#openmoko J-23 (n=aldwulf@a105.net128.okay.pl) |
| 20:14.38 | ragavendra_bn | I am able to start OpenMoko on Qemu with the scripts given |
| 20:15.13 | ragavendra_bn | issue is 'I get init not found on Qemu terminal |
| 20:15.34 | ragavendra_bn | it says use init= option |
| 20:17.28 | ragavendra_bn | how to build it |
| 20:17.38 | ragavendra_bn | or get 1 |
| 20:17.48 | *** join/#openmoko crib (n=chris@port-195-158-167-8.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 20:17.52 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=nosyjoe@85.8.5.244.static.se.wasadata.net) |
| 20:18.06 | ragavendra_bn | as long as I can see OpenMoko on Qemu |
| 20:18.20 | ragavendra_bn | wurp2? |
| 20:19.14 | RedDog | i need something to debug this damn suspend/resume! |
| 20:19.25 | *** part/#openmoko ragavendra_bn (n=root@59.92.129.108) |
| 20:21.51 | *** join/#openmoko crib (n=chris@port-195-158-167-8.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 20:22.45 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953A3DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:26.00 | TAsn | is freerunner suposed to be out this month? |
| 20:27.18 | elation | TAsn: " New version is the FreeRunner (with WiFi and pre-alpha software) maybe due April " |
| 20:27.31 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc3-darl3-0-0-cust785.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:27.34 | TAsn | well it is april :) |
| 20:27.50 | TAsn | i thought there might be some new info |
| 20:27.50 | SpeedEvil | points at the maybe. |
| 20:27.53 | SpeedEvil | nope. |
| 20:28.11 | TAsn | SpeedEvil, i can read you know :) |
| 20:28.30 | TAsn | damn i want an openmoko! :) |
| 20:30.07 | wurp2 | sorry, work distracted me from chatting ;-) |
| 20:30.23 | kdean06 | notes that there's still many days in April, so it still isn't technically incorrect. |
| 20:30.47 | wurp2 | RedDog: I didn't know that... I know kdean06's reports indicate that the device behaves as if the power button were held down after you wake with it |
| 20:31.36 | wurp2 | kdean06: You think we won't make April? |
| 20:31.49 | wurp2 | I haven't heard any PVT status |
| 20:32.46 | kdean06 | Personal guess only, no. Once the units are done, there's still going to be time to setup the store, setup shipping, collect payment and do all of that and I get the impression that OmI is a bit taxed as it is. |
| 20:33.23 | kdean06 | Though I have faith that things are moving... and having a 01 that's essentially "community supported" with potential hardware flaws... I'd rather have good hardware later than bad hardware now. |
| 20:33.36 | TAsn | is the battery life reasonable? |
| 20:33.53 | kdean06 | Depends on how you define "reasonable". :) Probably not though. |
| 20:34.08 | kdean06 | I'm getting about 4-6 hours depending on use. |
| 20:34.25 | TAsn | 4-6 hours of standby?! |
| 20:34.26 | kdean06 | Though, now that I can charge in my car, that's all I (personally) need. |
| 20:34.45 | TAsn | ouch. |
| 20:34.46 | wurp2 | kdean06: Agreed |
| 20:34.49 | mwester | TAsn: It doesn't have a standby. |
| 20:34.53 | wurp2 | TAsn: There is no standby now |
| 20:34.55 | mwester | It's always on, pretty much. |
| 20:34.59 | kdean06 | I'm even being ballsy now and not charging on the way to work. ;) |
| 20:35.03 | TAsn | oh |
| 20:35.15 | TAsn | without standby i guess that's reasonable |
| 20:35.22 | wurp2 | Well, there might be standby, but it won't really resume, so who knows (or cares) if standby works |
| 20:35.29 | mwester | Well, true... |
| 20:35.32 | mwester | :) |
| 20:35.33 | kdean06 | As a side note... The new startup sound is BEAUTIFUL through my car stereo and sucks royally on the Neo. :) |
| 20:35.48 | TAsn | by standby i mean like regular cells |
| 20:35.56 | mwester | The new startup sound makes my neo sound like it's wimpering on startup. |
| 20:35.58 | kdean06 | On the Neo is sounds like two notes essentially. |
| 20:35.58 | wurp2 | yeah, it doesn't work |
| 20:36.13 | TAsn | wurp2, ;\ |
| 20:36.30 | wurp2 | So cpu speed is full, data is shipped over the bus to the lcd, gsm is on full power, all the time |
| 20:36.47 | TAsn | yeah a i got that. |
| 20:36.49 | wurp2 | The only "power management" is turning off backlight, bluetooth, & the like |
| 20:36.53 | TAsn | not even cpu scaling? |
| 20:36.55 | kdean06 | wurp2, Perhaps I need to rephrase my bug report... RedDog is describing ONE of the cases that I get. I've never have a POWER resume work flawlessly, but I've had it happen a few times where it doesn't power down |
| 20:36.57 | wurp2 | Not right now |
| 20:36.58 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 20:37.07 | wurp2 | Someone is working on cpufreq |
| 20:37.15 | wurp2 | Although I haven't heard from him in a while |
| 20:37.20 | mwester | cpu scaling is mostly implemented (cesarb did that), but USB is problematic IIRC |
| 20:37.27 | wurp2 | yeah, him |
| 20:37.29 | wurp2 | :-) |
| 20:37.38 | TAsn | damn, i need a moko |
| 20:37.51 | wurp2 | There are ppl selling them, I think on ebay |
| 20:38.02 | mwester | It's also not sufficient to just do cpufreq; we really need to be able to suspend/resume. |
| 20:38.18 | TAsn | that's not the problem the problem is the usability |
| 20:38.25 | RedDog | kdean06: bug nr? |
| 20:38.49 | wurp2 | so you don't need one yet, then |
| 20:39.01 | kdean06 | RedDog, 1313 |
| 20:39.09 | TAsn | i can't afford myself one if it isn't sufficient as a phone. |
| 20:39.22 | TAsn | btw, does it have vibrate? |
| 20:39.39 | kdean06 | TAsn, I use my as my primary phone and digital media player. |
| 20:39.44 | wurp2 | TAsn: yep |
| 20:39.47 | wurp2 | Me too |
| 20:39.55 | wurp2 | You just can't spend more than 4 hours away from a charger |
| 20:39.58 | TAsn | freerunner or 01Z |
| 20:40.01 | TAsn | 01?* |
| 20:40.03 | wurp2 | 01 |
| 20:40.07 | kdean06 | Freerunner isn't out yet. :) |
| 20:40.09 | kdean06 | So 01 |
| 20:40.11 | TAsn | oh. |
| 20:40.26 | kdean06 | I'll let you know how Freerunner does when I have one. :D |
| 20:40.32 | wurp2 | and we're not privileged devs who get one anyway |
| 20:40.37 | wurp2 | :-( |
| 20:40.54 | TAsn | when they said freerunner out in april did they mean consumer or dev? |
| 20:41.25 | kdean06 | DEv |
| 20:41.31 | TAsn | ouch\ |
| 20:41.33 | RedDog | kdean06: yes, i allready saw this and i exacly have the same issue! |
| 20:41.54 | kdean06 | :D |
| 20:41.56 | baze_ | and probably april 2009 or 2010 ;) |
| 20:42.05 | RedDog | this is why i'm wondering about the diff between aux and power ... |
| 20:42.06 | wurp2 | TAsn: consumer will be at least another 6 months |
| 20:42.06 | kdean06 | I've noticed it on several images. |
| 20:42.09 | wurp2 | at the very least |
| 20:42.33 | wurp2 | but I think power management is in much better shape on FR, even right now, than 01 |
| 20:42.58 | TAsn | wurp2, so you say i should get myself another phone for the meanwhile :\ |
| 20:43.30 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:43.55 | wurp2 | TAsn: If you're waiting for the consumer version, yes |
| 20:44.28 | wurp2 | I couldn't say what you should expect of a FR when the dev version comes out |
| 20:44.29 | kdean06 | I don't think he can answer that question for you. If you NEED a phone NOW, you don't have other options. If you're interested in supporting the project then buying will benefit you in the long run. If you're looking for a phone with no quirks and that's IT, then you don't want an Openmoko device. |
| 20:44.34 | TAsn | should i? i mean is freerunner suposed to be worse than what 01 is now? |
| 20:45.11 | wurp2 | I'm not sure anyone with real experience with a FR is in the room now |
| 20:45.29 | wurp2 | I *think* the FR is working better than the 01 in almost every way right now |
| 20:45.45 | wurp2 | gps seems the most likely exception, if there are exceptions to that |
| 20:46.01 | TAsn | ok and what's the diff between advanced and base? |
| 20:46.09 | wurp2 | TAsn: The way you talk, it sounds as if you want a device that "just works" |
| 20:46.15 | wurp2 | advanced includes a debug board |
| 20:46.18 | kdean06 | wurp2, With the exception of X. |
| 20:46.21 | wurp2 | Most people never need it |
| 20:46.26 | wurp2 | kdean06: Oh, great point |
| 20:46.35 | TAsn | wurp2, my current device does not work at all |
| 20:46.35 | ccfly | actuall i don't think the'll sell advanced kit anymore |
| 20:46.38 | wurp2 | If you want to do low level hacking, you need a debug board |
| 20:46.40 | kdean06 | IIRC, GTA01 is actually slightly better than Freerunner in that regard, for now. |
| 20:46.51 | ccfly | there was some talk about debug mini USB board |
| 20:47.11 | wurp2 | If you need a new phone now, the only choice is 01, and the battery life is 4 hours max until suspend & resume work consistently |
| 20:47.13 | TAsn | though i use it since i need it's symbian features |
| 20:47.55 | wurp2 | But low level means *low* level. Even kernel hacking shouldn't require a debug board |
| 20:48.05 | TAsn | hw level? |
| 20:48.24 | TAsn | well i guess i dont need a debug board :) |
| 20:48.47 | TAsn | back in a sec. |
| 20:48.47 | ccfly | yes to put it simple direct on chip debugging |
| 20:49.05 | SpeedEvil | Much of hte problem with 01 is that there are almost no docs on the PMU. |
| 20:49.17 | SpeedEvil | in terms of PM requirements |
| 20:50.42 | ScaredyCat | slaps kdean06 |
| 20:50.49 | kdean06 | O_o |
| 20:50.53 | kdean06 | What did I do? |
| 20:51.03 | kdean06 | Oh.. the drunken theme thing? |
| 20:51.08 | ccfly | you've had it coming :> |
| 20:51.10 | ScaredyCat | nods |
| 20:51.29 | kdean06 | Yeah, perhaps that was a bit too blunt to be polite. |
| 20:52.20 | kdean06 | ScaredyCat, To be fair, I don't like Orange, so neither Ubuntu nor the default Openmoko theme is any better. :) |
| 20:52.39 | ScaredyCat | isn't ubuntu brown? |
| 20:53.29 | ScaredyCat | the colours can easily be changed... |
| 20:53.40 | kdean06 | Brown and orange. I don't think it's been straight brown since Hoary. |
| 20:53.49 | kdean06 | :) |
| 20:54.01 | ScaredyCat | pooBuntu |
| 20:55.05 | kdean06 | Have you noticed any changes in the strength of the echo? |
| 20:55.32 | ScaredyCat | doesn't have echo issues really |
| 20:55.40 | kdean06 | I tested with my work phone just now and I noticed it slightly, but there was distortion too. I'm not sure if that's because my office has crappy phone service or what. |
| 20:55.49 | kdean06 | Really? |
| 20:55.53 | kdean06 | that only happens to some people? |
| 20:55.58 | kdean06 | Or have you fixed it? |
| 20:56.33 | ScaredyCat | well, you could compare one of my images, to see |
| 20:56.34 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
| 20:56.43 | ScaredyCat | I can't replicate your environment |
| 20:56.49 | kdean06 | Nice plug. :) |
| 20:56.53 | ScaredyCat | :P |
| 20:57.05 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
| 20:57.15 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=broedje@92.117.144.141) |
| 20:59.16 | kdean06 | Does anyone know if the applications we have no are "real" of if they're simply tests of the hardware? |
| 20:59.27 | kdean06 | I know the media player is essentially "dead" but what about the others? |
| 21:00.13 | kdean06 | From what I hear, just about everyone is waiting for "stable middleware" before actually building useful stuff but that's mythical stuff... |
| 21:00.21 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro|isBack (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 21:00.36 | wurp2 | I hadn't heard the media player was dead |
| 21:00.49 | ScaredyCat | media player works fine |
| 21:01.01 | kdean06 | wurp2, Dead in terms of development. |
| 21:01.15 | ScaredyCat | is it? |
| 21:01.20 | kdean06 | File a bug on it and you'll get a "Development on that version has stopped." |
| 21:01.28 | ScaredyCat | ! |
| 21:01.37 | ScaredyCat | from who? |
| 21:01.47 | kdean06 | Ever noticed there's no "delete file" in the playlist section? |
| 21:01.52 | kdean06 | abraxa__ |
| 21:02.21 | wurp2 | I've noticed lots of stuff I wanted not being there |
| 21:02.31 | kdean06 | There's no reply button in messages... No way to advance forward in a song playback. |
| 21:02.32 | wurp2 | Hmm, maybe I should build one sooner rather than later |
| 21:02.53 | ScaredyCat | slaps abraxa__ |
| 21:03.29 | ScaredyCat | ok, well if the original dev has dropped it, perhaps we should encourage another to take it up |
| 21:03.30 | kdean06 | I fully understand the idea is to get Freerunner out the door and build on that but I'm wondering a little how relevant in-depth evaluation of this software is when none of it is actually "active". |
| 21:03.31 | abraxa__ | Ow =( |
| 21:04.22 | abraxa__ | Yeah, kdean is right - I'm not working on the media player anymore since that's a tad pointless |
| 21:04.24 | ScaredyCat | this is curious, because it suggests that once the freerunner is out they'll drop support for the 01 |
| 21:04.32 | abraxa__ | Not really |
| 21:04.46 | kdean06 | I've actually heard something like that's already been said on the list... |
| 21:04.56 | ScaredyCat | which actually is the opposite to what mickeyl said when I asked about that |
| 21:05.03 | kdean06 | Hearsay, of course. :) |
| 21:05.19 | ScaredyCat | it'll be in the logs |
| 21:05.21 | abraxa__ | It's true that the focus will lie on the GTA02 but GTA01 will benefit from the updates just as much |
| 21:05.24 | ScaredyCat | !logs |
| 21:05.24 | cdbot2 | Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: |
| 21:05.25 | cdbot2 | http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko |
| 21:05.26 | cdbot2 | Live-logs are available at |
| 21:05.28 | cdbot2 | http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog |
| 21:05.30 | cdbot2 | See ?? help-logs for usage instructions |
| 21:05.52 | mwester | It's in the archives for the kernel-dev list. |
| 21:06.42 | wurp2 | abraxa__: Why is it pointless to work on your media player? |
| 21:07.20 | kdean06 | From what I gather, he's planning on writing a new one that WILL work on 01. |
| 21:07.24 | abraxa__ | wurp2: Three letters: EFL |
| 21:07.39 | kdean06 | But I wonder if there aren't plans to do the same for the rest of the stuff. |
| 21:07.48 | mwester | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-March/001959.html |
| 21:08.00 | ScaredyCat | ok, so rather than anyone waste any time, perhaps we need that shit done now |
| 21:08.14 | *** join/#openmoko norro_ (n=norro@e182037217.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:08.25 | mwester | There's the kernel deprecation thread; that message is rather in the middle of the thread but it captures the "read-between-the-lines" bit. |
| 21:08.59 | abraxa__ | kdean06: I don't see a problem with that |
| 21:09.26 | abraxa__ | The infrastructure of GTA01 and 02 are almost the same, from an application's point of view |
| 21:10.33 | kdean06 | abraxa__, Nor do I, honestly. I'm a huge fan of EFL and I'd love to see as much of the "Core" of Om use it. My complaint I suppose is at this point, how "serious" are bugs and wishlist complaints taken. I mean, I've mentioned two media player issues, have you marked those things as "priority" or just kind of filed it mentally as "somthing for later". |
| 21:10.36 | wurp2 | abraxa_: O |
| 21:11.07 | kdean06 | Mind you, I'm not complaining or judging or anything, but I do have to wonder what the point is of testing this codebase if it is all literally just test crap. |
| 21:11.44 | abraxa_ | kdean06: I can only tell what I gather from my own observations and I myself am not too satisfied with Openmoko's information policy as it is either |
| 21:12.13 | kdean06 | I gather than that's... My impression is that you're not an isolated case. |
| 21:12.25 | abraxa_ | As for me, I can tell you this much: I wrote the media player last year, thinking that GTK would persist. Fact is: it doesn't |
| 21:12.30 | NineX | hmm |
| 21:12.37 | kdean06 | And as I said, I understand that so don't think I'm complaining to YOU or about you. :) |
| 21:12.45 | NineX | in current openmoko build termcap is missing? |
| 21:13.04 | mwester | install ncurses-terminfo (or something like that)... |
| 21:13.05 | *** join/#openmoko jeffdameth (n=jeff@dyndsl-080-228-177-060.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:13.43 | abraxa_ | If you look at diversity, enlazar, illume, etc... you know where we are headed |
| 21:14.09 | SpeedEvil | wishes there was a page saying that. |
| 21:14.16 | kdean06 | I'll work on that. |
| 21:14.24 | mwester | NineX: I have the ipk files for ncurses and ncurses-terminfo on my SD card so I can reinstall them easily after every flash of the rootfs - makes it easier. |
| 21:14.47 | abraxa_ | kdean06: Oh, I know. I'm not taking anything personally. I just find it sad that OM, Inc. isn't straightforward with its plans |
| 21:15.06 | ScaredyCat | wishes they didn't have to have such stupid names |
| 21:15.17 | wurp2 | We really should just come right out & bitch about this on the devel list |
| 21:15.25 | mwester | To give OM the benefit of the doubt, I think perhaps they didn't know for certain where they were going with the toolkit until very recently. |
| 21:15.45 | abraxa_ | mwester: That is true but now they know... just don't communicate it |
| 21:15.51 | wurp2 | If they are making decisions like this without an awful lot of thought, that's a big deal |
| 21:15.57 | mwester | ScaredyCat: all the good names have already been chosen! :) |
| 21:16.13 | wurp2 | Even if something is clearly better, if your bar for changing is too low, you just spend all your time switching infrastructures |
| 21:16.19 | ScaredyCat | bah! What wrong with network manager, messages etc |
| 21:16.24 | wurp2 | s/big deal/big problem/ |
| 21:16.31 | mwester | It seems to me that they are leading with Qtopia on X for the GTA02. |
| 21:17.09 | abraxa_ | mwester: That's why mickey started the "middleware initiative". He's gathering resources to finish the middleware and *then* works on the GUI - which is why it seems right now like no progress is being made |
| 21:17.19 | wurp2 | For something as big & open as this, there needs to be a clearly articulated & consistent direction |
| 21:17.35 | abraxa_ | mwester: The painful result from last year is that the top-down approach simply didn't work |
| 21:17.36 | ScaredyCat | so wtf is the point, why don't they just drop this and use qtopia outright? |
| 21:18.12 | mwester | Good question. |
| 21:18.19 | jamewill | qtopia approach also has its probs..... see zecke's piece on planet |
| 21:18.59 | mwester | Would there be any bit issue if OM just chose Qtopia to start with, and see what comes of the initiative that mickeyl started? |
| 21:19.08 | mwester | s/bit/big/ |
| 21:19.18 | mwester | thank you, apt. Good bot. |
| 21:20.38 | mwester | Still, there's plenty to do that's agnostic to all that stuff -- like getting resume to work correctly. And integrating cesarb's stuff into the GTA01 kernel. |
| 21:21.04 | mwester | Now that it's pretty much up to the community, I think there will be less "stigma" associated with a non-OM kernel development effort. |
| 21:23.21 | *** join/#openmoko kelvan (n=kelvan@85.127.250.101) |
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| 21:31.28 | abraxa_ | kdean06: Sorry, I forgot to answer your question earlier |
| 21:31.41 | kdean06 | I asked one? :P |
| 21:32.34 | abraxa_ | The flaws that the media player currently has will be fixed in the EFL version. Reason is that the current file chooser/playlist management UI was more or less a quick hack to make it usable |
| 21:33.12 | abraxa_ | I was going to redesign it to make it usable *well*, but then realized that it's no real use |
| 21:33.43 | josch | quicksand |
| 21:33.44 | josch | ?? |
| 21:33.47 | josch | where is he?? |
| 21:33.50 | josch | anyway |
| 21:34.07 | SpeedEvil | mwester: and the damn anoying tendancy - not unreasonably - to assume that important stuff is being worked on internally, in the lack of knowledge due to no communication. |
| 21:34.09 | josch | now i have a fully tested and working debian archive - ready to deploy to your sd card |
| 21:34.14 | josch | it just works [tm] |
| 21:34.17 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 21:34.38 | SpeedEvil | Cool! You can make a SD card fit? Mine just takes microSD! |
| 21:35.12 | SpeedEvil | josch: what wm annd stuff are you playing with on it? |
| 21:35.36 | abraxa_ | SpeedEvil: Looks like people who come from a pure closed-source background while being afraid of competitors ("we can't let them know what we're doing!") takes a good while to change... |
| 21:35.46 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 21:35.47 | abraxa_ | take* |
| 21:35.55 | *** join/#openmoko n0t (n=kvirc@81-208-83-236.fastres.net) |
| 21:36.03 | kdean06 | abraxa_, Oh, okay, got it. :) |
| 21:36.24 | SpeedEvil | And it really doesn't play well with the open-source philosophy - where you say what you're doing to help avoid duplicaiton. |
| 21:36.29 | kdean06 | Is that essentially a front end to mplayer then? Or is it "it's own beast"? |
| 21:36.49 | abraxa_ | kdean06: It's a front-end to both gstreamer (for audio) and mplayer (for video) |
| 21:36.58 | SpeedEvil | I honestly think that the project could be several months ahead purely if there was a 'we are not working on this' list. |
| 21:37.06 | abraxa_ | mplayer however is a tough beast to tame, so support is rudimentary :) |
| 21:37.10 | mwester | How does pulse fit into that (I know little of these media apps)? |
| 21:37.19 | josch | SpeedEvil, it's all written down here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian |
| 21:37.31 | SpeedEvil | josch: :) |
| 21:37.38 | SpeedEvil | Documentation! wow! |
| 21:37.53 | abraxa_ | mwester: think of PulseAudio as a replacement for ALSA |
| 21:38.04 | kdean06 | As a replacement for ALSA? |
| 21:38.21 | kdean06 | I thought it was supposed to be an ESD replacement... |
| 21:38.30 | kdean06 | Oh.. |
| 21:38.32 | abraxa_ | As in - it only manages the access to the sound hardware |
| 21:38.35 | kdean06 | Okay, I see what you could mean. :) |
| 21:38.47 | kdean06 | "The final place to kick sound". :) |
| 21:38.50 | kdean06 | Pulse does the rest. |
| 21:38.55 | abraxa_ | Yup :) |
| 21:39.03 | *** join/#openmoko jeffdamet1 (n=jeff@dyndsl-091-096-043-244.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:39.07 | abraxa_ | And PA does kick ass. |
| 21:39.16 | kdean06 | Properly configured. :) |
| 21:39.22 | abraxa_ | We have nowhere nearly tapped its potential on the Neo |
| 21:40.02 | kdean06 | No, I'm quite happy with the capability of the audio system (some POTENTIAL hardware gripes with the audio jack) and I'm personally more interested in interfaces. |
| 21:40.46 | abraxa_ | Interfaces of what kind? |
| 21:40.47 | kdean06 | I have a friend who wants an iPod killer, and I personally think that Neo could potentially do much more than a mere iPod could. But a lot of that comes from media management and making things seamless. |
| 21:41.02 | abraxa_ | We all want an iPod killer ;) |
| 21:41.17 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: moulinex do one. |
| 21:41.21 | kdean06 | The biggest complaint I've heard about non-iPods... No podcast management. |
| 21:41.21 | abraxa_ | rofl |
| 21:41.49 | abraxa_ | kdean06: The best thing you can do right now is to mold your ideas into coherent sentences and put them on the wish list |
| 21:41.58 | kdean06 | LOL |
| 21:42.15 | abraxa_ | I can only speak for myself but I *am* reading it and keeping ideas in mind |
| 21:42.39 | kdean06 | Some of this need not even be implimented in the media player for the sake of simplicity. |
| 21:43.35 | kdean06 | But imagine if your media player would actually check for new podcast episodes for you and (if you let it) clear the listened episodes out for you. |
| 21:43.36 | abraxa_ | kdean06: Chances are there'll be a D-Bus enabled dedicated A/V IO daemon handling A/V across all apps - it all depends on what we need and how we need it |
| 21:44.04 | abraxa_ | Is that on the wish list? |
| 21:44.27 | kdean06 | I don't know yet, but you can be assured that now that I know you look at it, my ideas will end up there. :) |
| 21:44.36 | abraxa_ | Awesome, thanks :) |
| 21:44.54 | abraxa_ | Matter of fact I took some PIM ideas from there also |
| 21:45.23 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@208.84-48-176.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:46.19 | kdean06 | Though, the list of wishlist things goes much beyond the media player. :) Most people don't know that the Neo has photo capability for contacts, but that's because Neo has no way to set an icon for them. :) |
| 21:46.34 | kdean06 | But yeah, I'll certainly look at the wishlist. |
| 21:46.56 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@212-41-114-195.adsl.solnet.ch) |
| 21:47.18 | abraxa_ | Indeed... |
| 21:47.39 | abraxa_ | I do wish we'd have decidated UI designers and usability experts |
| 21:47.44 | abraxa_ | dedicated* |
| 21:48.05 | abraxa_ | Then they could do the UI in mockups while everyone else does middleware in the meanwhile... |
| 21:48.45 | kdean06 | There's a lot of inconsistancy in the UI. :( |
| 21:49.32 | kdean06 | And it needs so usability review done. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks the envelope with arrows is "Reply" and not "forward". :) |
| 21:49.37 | kdean06 | Damn thing gets me every time! |
| 21:49.40 | kdean06 | chuckles |
| 21:49.41 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 21:49.54 | abraxa_ | Well like I said |
| 21:50.20 | abraxa_ | The GTK stuff is past (imo) and new apps won't be written before the middleware isn't finished |
| 21:50.39 | abraxa_ | Cause what does the community do without stable APIs? Nothing, as we all can see |
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| 22:02.01 | kdean06 | mwester, Was it you that said you thought the new startup sound was bad? What did you say, that is sounded like your Neo was moaning? |
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| 22:07.34 | *** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=TAsn@89.1.12.160.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 22:07.49 | mwester | kdean06: :) It sounded like it whimpered to me. |
| 22:07.57 | holycow | the startup sound should be *moooo* |
| 22:07.57 | TAsn | btw, does the moke have utf-8 support? |
| 22:07.59 | holycow | but i'm biased |
| 22:08.19 | kdean06 | Thanks. It's a vivid word. |
| 22:08.19 | ScaredyCat | finds a mieow |
| 22:08.22 | ScaredyCat | ! |
| 22:08.25 | holycow | heh |
| 22:08.52 | abraxa_ | TAsn: UTF-8 support in what area? |
| 22:09.01 | TAsn | everywhere :) |
| 22:09.42 | abraxa_ | The GTK stack I don't know about - the EFL/python stack will |
| 22:10.01 | TAsn | ok |
| 22:10.23 | TAsn | i just need know wether i will be able to use non english langs or not. |
| 22:10.47 | TAsn | if it's native gtk then i am all good (or so i think) |
| 22:11.00 | kdean06 | That's a pretty big if. :( |
| 22:11.02 | TAsn | rtl is also a prob :\ |
| 22:11.41 | kdean06 | I think that's a rather large point of contention... Nobody know what the "real" openmoko will be. :) |
| 22:12.23 | abraxa_ | TAsn: RTL? Arabic? |
| 22:12.27 | TAsn | is there a way to run openmoko an a vm? or a simulation of some sort? |
| 22:12.41 | TAsn | abraxa_, hebrew. |
| 22:12.46 | abraxa_ | Ohh okay |
| 22:12.53 | abraxa_ | And yeah, you can use the qemu environment |
| 22:13.04 | TAsn | cool i will check that out. |
| 22:13.18 | TAsn | maybe even start to translate the ui |
| 22:13.47 | kdean06 | TAsn, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Using_QEMU_with_MokoMakefile |
| 22:14.01 | TAsn | thanks |
| 22:14.27 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:20.03 | cb22 | if half the ideas people had for the freerunner got implimented.... |
| 22:22.14 | abraxa_ | That's where I want to go :) |
| 22:22.45 | cb22 | how 'fast' of a movement is need for the accelerometer to register it? |
| 22:23.29 | abraxa_ | Nothing outrageously fast from what I saw |
| 22:24.02 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@dhcp-168.dynamic.lsd.ic.unicamp.br) |
| 22:24.13 | cb22 | how about moving a phone from normal holding position to next to your ear? |
| 22:24.37 | *** join/#openmoko yoyo_ (n=yoyo@nat.zegrze.maverick.com.pl) |
| 22:25.04 | josch | cb22, you can ask mickeyl when he comes back - he wrote some basic apps to read acc output |
| 22:25.04 | abraxa_ | The *movement* itself may be too slow but the change in orientation of the phone will be noticed |
| 22:25.43 | abraxa_ | josch: Yeah, we should urge him to do a small vid demonstrating his small portrait/landscape proof of concept |
| 22:25.53 | cb22 | indeed :) |
| 22:26.29 | cb22 | isnt he in austria afaik? |
| 22:26.58 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@212-41-114-195.adsl.solnet.ch) |
| 22:27.13 | josch | cb22, he is snowed in ^^ |
| 22:27.33 | cb22 | good, lots of time for the freerunner |
| 22:27.48 | cb22 | lets just hope his wife is somewhere else, and he has a working internet connection |
| 22:27.53 | cb22 | perfect hacking conditions :) |
| 22:28.33 | abraxa_ | Internet connection is what he doesn't really have :( |
| 22:28.47 | kdean06 | cb22, You're not married, are you? |
| 22:28.50 | abraxa_ | And his wife is the reason he went in the first place, lol |
| 22:29.13 | *** part/#openmoko kelvan (n=kelvan@85.127.250.101) |
| 22:29.17 | cb22 | kdean06: nope :p |
| 22:29.19 | kdean06 | Wives find ways to add to the honeydo list... Being alone on the surface of Mars doesn't stop them... |
| 22:29.39 | mwester | skiing, wife, holidays... internet connection is probably not compatible. :D |
| 22:29.54 | cb22 | poor guy, someone through him a high speed hsdpa modem |
| 22:30.31 | cb22 | kdean06: i can imagine, my gf is bad enough already :( and the problem is you cannot deny them |
| 22:30.40 | kdean06 | chuckles |
| 22:31.28 | kdean06 | I'm happily married, and I do have my own time. But a little snow storm, nuclear war or mass extinctions aren't much of an obstacle. :) |
| 22:32.26 | josch | cb22, he has to pay 6⬠per hour for internets :-( |
| 22:32.35 | cb22 | damn, so my stash of thermonuclear warheads is useless now? |
| 22:32.40 | cb22 | josch: ouch |
| 22:32.48 | mwester | Oh no. |
| 22:33.42 | *** join/#openmoko jeffdameth (n=jeff@dyndsl-080-228-181-213.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:33.43 | mwester | It's just no longer "your" stash very soon now. That's all. |
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| 22:34.13 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@dsbg-4db7df11.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 22:34.38 | abraxa_ | lol mwester |
| 22:38.21 | ScaredyCat | haha! I has a meow! |
| 22:39.00 | Stephmw | wurp2|better_go: I wasn't full of it, I was simply talking about something else :) |
| 22:39.17 | abraxa_ | ScaredyCat: Define "meow" please |
| 22:39.33 | ScaredyCat | the sound a cat makes..... |
| 22:39.42 | ScaredyCat | mwow... |
| 22:39.50 | abraxa_ | You swallowed a cat and it makes noises now? |
| 22:39.55 | ScaredyCat | (phonetic) |
| 22:41.16 | ScaredyCat | no... |
| 22:41.31 | ScaredyCat | I has a meow ... startup sound on my build :P |
| 22:42.05 | Stephmw | heads to bed |
| 22:42.08 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-159-249.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:42.31 | ScaredyCat | why don't you walk Stephmw? |
| 22:43.59 | abraxa_ | lol, that's cute |
| 22:45.55 | josch | desu |
| 22:56.42 | zash | lol, desu |
| 22:58.55 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@70-7-69-200.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:59.14 | josch | DESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESU |
| 23:00.28 | zash | SUED |
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| 23:18.16 | anrp | desu? |
| 23:18.21 | anrp | i think i heard someone say DESU! |
| 23:20.12 | SpeedEvil | ponders 4chanmoko. |
| 23:20.17 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:20.20 | anrp | does it arrive? |
| 23:21.01 | anrp | it isn't closedmoko, after all |
| 23:21.34 | dcordes | ScaredyCat, is there a metapackage for the target toolchain so I can have it built manually? |
| 23:26.30 | wurp2|better_go | Stephmw: I wasn't trying to be insulting! I thought you were being totally fascetious with your 15 kHz remark |
| 23:26.33 | wurp2|better_go | Were you not? |
| 23:29.18 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-77-106-65.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 23:32.32 | josch | okay, going to bed now |
| 23:32.49 | josch | if quicksand appears, plz tell him that i prepared everything for him |
| 23:33.08 | josch | he can wget the new tar as usual: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian |
| 23:34.40 | mjr | wrote a quick and dirty streaming webpage differ for that proxy thing one'd want |
| 23:35.06 | anrp | what thing is that? |
| 23:35.22 | mjr | that thing: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:WebProxy |
| 23:36.48 | mjr | the hard part would be next.. |
| 23:37.12 | anrp | hmm |
| 23:37.13 | anrp | ? |
| 23:38.52 | *** join/#openmoko Trevinho (n=Trevi@host154-124-dynamic.12-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 23:40.56 | anrp | idly wonders about the hard part |
| 23:42.38 | ccfly | good night |
| 23:42.39 | *** part/#openmoko ccfly (n=ccfly@89.212.76.77) |
| 23:44.58 | *** join/#openmoko avtobiff (i=avtobiff@c83-254-4-90.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 23:52.39 | mjr | anrp, putting it all into a proxy thingy |
| 23:55.06 | anrp | mmm |
| 23:55.16 | anrp | that makes sense.. you need two custom proxies |
| 23:55.21 | anrp | one for the device and one remote |
| 23:56.18 | mjr | yes |
| 23:57.50 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 23:59.09 | mjr | with my current code I get 11254->1626 bytes plain gz versus diff to earlier+gz on a couple of ebay snapshots. Not quite what's painted on the wiki page but worthwhile... |
