| 00:06.15 | wurp2 | bmidgley: If you follow the instructions on Switching_Keyboards on the wiki, that problem should go away |
| 00:06.33 | wurp2 | of course, you'll also lose the multitap kbd in favor of matchbox |
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| 00:11.54 | bmidgley | wurp2 i'll try that |
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| 05:48.00 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03werner * r4189 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/wait-for-power-DONTUSE.patch: First try at the wait for power loop. See discussion on openmoko-kernel. |
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| 06:02.59 | *** join/#openmoko ccfly (n=ccfly@212.235.185.131) |
| 06:05.01 | ccfly | good morning |
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| 06:13.57 | raster | ccfly: mooo |
| 06:15.47 | ccfly | mooo ? |
| 06:16.00 | ccfly | holly cow not in the morning |
| 06:17.31 | raster | bovinity to the max |
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| 06:19.59 | ccfly | Yes I can see glamo is getting to you :> |
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| 06:23.40 | raster | you do you tell? |
| 06:23.41 | raster | :) |
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| 06:44.08 | *** join/#openmoko tessier (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) |
| 06:44.11 | tessier | Hello all! |
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| 06:45.26 | tessier | I've been dying to get an openmoko phone but it's hard to know when it finally goes on sale. FreeRunner is the new hardware platform with wifi and GPS, correct? |
| 06:46.58 | raster | yups |
| 06:49.13 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 06:49.18 | ccfly | mornin' |
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| 06:49.58 | raster | mow |
| 06:51.25 | thomasg | good morning together. seems raster is the only guy on the other side of the world :) |
| 06:52.23 | raster | \:( |
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| 06:54.57 | holycow | tessier: i've been waiting too |
| 06:55.12 | holycow | from what i'velearned either its comming in april or late summer |
| 06:55.19 | holycow | depends on how their manufacturing testing goes |
| 06:55.47 | tessier | I can't wait. I'm really looking forward to showing off my open phone to everyone. |
| 06:56.20 | ccfly | I tried that |
| 06:56.22 | tessier | Hope it is competitive with the very locked-in iphone. |
| 06:56.38 | holycow | i can't wait to kiss fucking wince and blackberry devices goodbeye |
| 06:56.46 | tessier | I've got Linux running everywhere on nearly all of my electronics except my mobile phone. |
| 06:56.47 | ccfly | but I had to tell them that you need to have ssh to pick up a call :> |
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| 06:56.50 | tessier | holycow: Amen |
| 06:57.08 | holycow | tessier: same here dude |
| 06:57.12 | tessier | ccfly: That's why I'm waiting for the FreeRunner before attempting such evangelism. :) |
| 06:57.16 | holycow | i want total integration |
| 06:57.33 | holycow | tessier: one of the first things i will try is to get vpn working on it |
| 06:57.42 | holycow | so when its wifi senses i'm home it logs in and runs some scripts |
| 06:57.47 | holycow | turning on my media center |
| 06:57.51 | holycow | lights depending on day, etc. |
| 06:57.53 | tessier | openmoko+python+gtk |
| 06:58.01 | ccfly | erm |
| 06:58.05 | holycow | +qt4 |
| 06:58.23 | holycow | i've been sold on kde4 and qt4 as the way forward, i used to be big on gtk |
| 06:58.40 | holycow | the other thing i want to do is wire up my car with one of these |
| 06:58.49 | holycow | so i can ssh in if i lock my keys and unlock the car |
| 06:58.55 | tessier | qt? http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080107-openmoko-freerunner-a-win-for-phone-freedom.html this says GTK. Although I'm sure you guys would know. The author must have been mistaken. |
| 06:59.02 | holycow | or ssh in and start it up before i get down to the garage |
| 06:59.19 | *** join/#openmoko cedric (n=cedric@mieuh.bluebugs.org) |
| 06:59.19 | holycow | tessier: its linux we can do whatever we want |
| 06:59.19 | ccfly | ok stop hyperventilating :> |
| 06:59.28 | holycow | :) |
| 06:59.34 | tessier | hmm...you could set up your phone to call home with its gps location every minute and "leave" it in your gf's car.... |
| 06:59.40 | holycow | i want kde4 + plasma on my moko eventually |
| 06:59.48 | holycow | tessier: and that too yes |
| 07:00.03 | ccfly | dear god kde4 on openmoko |
| 07:00.08 | holycow | wire it up to an lcd and spit out gmaps +gps info |
| 07:00.09 | ccfly | this thing has like 500 MIPS ? |
| 07:00.18 | holycow | uh, whats your point? |
| 07:00.24 | holycow | its just a bunch of libraries |
| 07:00.32 | tessier | Yeah but those libs are a LOT of code. |
| 07:00.33 | holycow | i didn't say i would run konqueror on it |
| 07:00.36 | holycow | and? |
| 07:00.41 | holycow | so is gtk |
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| 07:00.58 | tessier | gtk is a widget toolkit, KDE is a whole desktop environment |
| 07:01.12 | tessier | You aren't going to have enough screen real estate to even care what wm it is using |
| 07:01.23 | thomasg | I don't even want kde on my desktop :) |
| 07:01.25 | holycow | what are you talking about? |
| 07:01.29 | holycow | have you seen plasma? |
| 07:01.29 | holycow | lol |
| 07:01.34 | holycow | you can do anything you want with plasma |
| 07:01.46 | thomasg | can plasma make coffee for me? |
| 07:01.50 | tessier | holycow: What is plasma other than what the sun is made out of? got a url? |
| 07:01.54 | tessier | Will plasma give me a hummer? |
| 07:02.07 | holycow | lol why are you acting like a moron? |
| 07:02.13 | holycow | seriously |
| 07:02.16 | tessier | seriously |
| 07:02.20 | holycow | wow awesome |
| 07:02.23 | holycow | retard in the house |
| 07:02.29 | holycow | dude i'm not putting down gtk |
| 07:02.31 | holycow | use what you like |
| 07:02.44 | tessier | ding fries are done ding fries are done |
| 07:02.51 | ccfly | it's just plasma is probably not a best choice for resource onstraned devices |
| 07:02.52 | holycow | this is why i want to buy a moko, i don't haveto use what you want :) |
| 07:03.08 | ccfly | constrained |
| 07:03.10 | ccfly | typos |
| 07:03.11 | holycow | ccfly: well you just go ahead and use gtk |
| 07:03.30 | ccfly | I'm not saying that because I would be a fan of GTK |
| 07:03.37 | holycow | i really don't care :) i'm just sharing ideas of what i will do |
| 07:04.10 | holycow | well you certainly arent exhibiting any indication of interest as in 'what if we try' kinda deal |
| 07:04.22 | holycow | i would say let people use gtk thats cool |
| 07:04.37 | holycow | i will also say, lets give kde4 a shot, it really has some amazing things to offer, particularly plasm |
| 07:04.38 | thomasg | the mindful readers (illume, assassin) also know, that there is a moko-world beyond gtk |
| 07:04.44 | ccfly | I really don't care about the libraries underneath |
| 07:04.50 | holycow | i will also say, whatever critique you offer today i offer a solution tomorrow |
| 07:05.01 | ccfly | what I'm saying is that plasma is probably made for desktop |
| 07:05.05 | holycow | either way we all win |
| 07:05.08 | holycow | ah no |
| 07:05.14 | holycow | plasma is not made for the desktop |
| 07:05.22 | ccfly | well try it on openmoko and write :> |
| 07:05.22 | holycow | it may have its first incarnation on the desktop |
| 07:05.28 | holycow | but plasma is not made FOR the desktop |
| 07:05.39 | holycow | i don't think you have researched this at all and are just offering opinions based on heresay |
| 07:05.46 | holycow | actually i don't havet |
| 07:05.53 | holycow | someone here already has it running on the moko |
| 07:06.13 | holycow | whether or not its functional is irrelevant at this point as kde4 and plasm are largely unstable as it is on any platform |
| 07:06.15 | holycow | wiith that being said |
| 07:06.19 | holycow | when i say plasma and kde4 |
| 07:06.33 | holycow | what i am alluding to are the ideas and underpinnings of the framework |
| 07:06.35 | holycow | plus |
| 07:06.40 | holycow | the general idea of what plasma is |
| 07:06.50 | thomasg | you might consider using one line per sentence |
| 07:06.59 | holycow | the particular incarnation as it stands and particular implemenation are a whole other segment of thought largely irrelevant |
| 07:07.00 | *** part/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-210-217-55.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
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| 07:07.08 | holycow | you may want to learn to read |
| 07:07.10 | holycow | its not hard |
| 07:07.20 | ccfly | would you please stop bickering |
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| 07:07.31 | holycow | ccfly: would you stop telling people what to do? |
| 07:07.33 | holycow | righto |
| 07:07.34 | holycow | thanks |
| 07:07.41 | thomasg | yeah, really boring. you can do flamewars in gtk-vs-qt chans... |
| 07:07.49 | holycow | there is no flamewar |
| 07:07.54 | holycow | there is me sharing what i want to do |
| 07:08.02 | holycow | there is you offended that i am not using gtk |
| 07:08.06 | holycow | that is really what this is about |
| 07:08.16 | thomasg | ??? |
| 07:08.19 | holycow | and ccfly objects to the fact i refuse to follow his schema of behaviour |
| 07:08.22 | holycow | its subtle but its there |
| 07:08.23 | holycow | now |
| 07:08.52 | holycow | as clearly creative people :) lets start over and talk about what we want to do with our mokos |
| 07:09.07 | holycow | whether or not its feasable right now is not important as we cant even buy one |
| 07:09.13 | *** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 07:09.14 | holycow | thomasg: what do you want do do with yours? |
| 07:09.20 | thomasg | so you assume I'd use gtk because I said you should not write 20 lines in a row (10 of the for one sentence)? |
| 07:09.41 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@61.16.248.242) |
| 07:09.45 | thomasg | I use what openmoko will use. that's not plasma, that's not gtk. |
| 07:09.56 | holycow | congratulations |
| 07:09.59 | holycow | you do that |
| 07:10.02 | holycow | i have no objections |
| 07:10.08 | thomasg | I see |
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| 07:10.21 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFD143.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:10.41 | holycow | infact |
| 07:10.52 | holycow | i'm certain i will use gtk for a long time too on the moko |
| 07:11.05 | thomasg | like you said: you can do what you want |
| 07:11.10 | holycow | but i would love to see some of the things i've mentioned start to leak onto the device |
| 07:11.21 | holycow | so what do you want to do with yours? |
| 07:11.25 | thomasg | all I said is: you take up 90% of the lines in my irc-applications :) |
| 07:11.43 | holycow | well then shut the hell up and stop talking to me |
| 07:11.44 | holycow | lol |
| 07:11.49 | holycow | ./ignore is right there dude |
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| 07:12.16 | thomasg | hehe, I see, you really are a nice guy. |
| 07:12.48 | holycow | infact i am. the moment you stop playing verbal chess and get back to netral territory i'm easy |
| 07:12.50 | holycow | :) |
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| 07:47.50 | Jak08 | I have a minor question. With the Freerunner when it is released in a month or two or whenever with the developer version. Will that be stable enough an end user. As I read a Mass Development version would come out later in the year. correct me if I am wrong. |
| 07:51.47 | SpeedEvil | probably not |
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| 07:52.06 | SpeedEvil | It may function as a very basic phone/sms thing |
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| 07:52.53 | SpeedEvil | HowevAt the moment, the current phone getnerally works. |
| 07:53.03 | Jak08 | are you reffering to just the software side or on a whole that the first freerunners won't be more than just a basic phone? |
| 07:53.04 | SpeedEvil | But there are supposed to be massive UI changes upcoming. |
| 07:53.13 | SpeedEvil | software side only. |
| 07:53.24 | SpeedEvil | Hardware wise, it should be absolutely fine. |
| 07:53.31 | SpeedEvil | Hopefully. |
| 07:53.41 | yangh | I'm runner |
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| 07:54.51 | Jak08 | now a bit more off the wall question I guess. Currently I have Alltel as a provider, which is cdma. would it be advisable to just get one of the first freerunners and wait for the software to mature before switching providers? |
| 07:55.13 | SpeedEvil | Probably not. |
| 07:55.37 | SpeedEvil | If you're getting one, it'd make sense to either get it as an additional phone, or wait |
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| 07:57.12 | Jak08 | well I'm in a bit of a sticky situation almost. my contract ends this month. so I am looking into another provider because I'm not perticularly happy with alltel's customer support. but if I switch providers I'll want a phone I can use. |
| 07:58.41 | Jak08 | and I'm not sure that I want to buy a phone and then turn around in a few more months buy another. Not that that isn't the sort of thing I would do. I just would prefer not to. |
| 07:58.56 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 07:59.03 | Jak08 | so I was just trying to get a decent sense of how the freerunner would be at launch |
| 07:59.12 | *** join/#openmoko Selveste1 (n=chatzill@85.235.243.199) |
| 07:59.27 | SpeedEvil | Can't you just keep your existing phone for a few more months? |
| 07:59.52 | Jak08 | thats why I added in that almost into the bit about being in a sticky situation |
| 07:59.56 | Jak08 | but yes I can |
| 08:00.16 | SpeedEvil | I think practically, this is all pointless to discuss yet. |
| 08:00.34 | SpeedEvil | Exactly when freerunner will become available is unclear. |
| 08:01.43 | Jak08 | I wish I had more patience. for example I was just waiting in line last night for super smash bros. brawl. I like to get things the moment I can. |
| 08:04.12 | Jak08 | so what exactly prompted the change name from 1973 to freerunner anyway? was it consumer acceptance of the name that urged it? |
| 08:04.43 | SpeedEvil | Don't know. |
| 08:04.59 | SpeedEvil | Software at that time is another question. |
| 08:06.25 | *** part/#openmoko Zero_Dogg (n=zerodogg@mandriva/developer/Zero-Dogg) |
| 08:09.05 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
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| 08:20.15 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@140.78.95.50) |
| 08:29.25 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-74-162-208.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:34.56 | *** join/#openmoko [PI]Sami (n=sami@a9b.pirttimaki.jyu.fi) |
| 08:38.54 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2D9A7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:39.12 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 08:48.09 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@61.16.248.242) |
| 08:49.22 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-74-162-208.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
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| 08:54.19 | SpeedEvil | competition? |
| 08:55.12 | *** join/#openmoko martiini (n=chatzill@80-235-45-199-dsl.mus.estpak.ee) |
| 08:55.21 | raster | competition? |
| 08:56.02 | martiini | when can i buy a usable openmoko phone? |
| 08:56.12 | ScaredyCat | yeah, the one where you think of the most retarded name for an application.... |
| 08:56.35 | SpeedEvil | marvs: some months. |
| 08:56.57 | ScaredyCat | martiini: gta01 is sold out, gta02 due soon, ish |
| 08:58.50 | raster | martiini: usable? |
| 08:58.52 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 08:59.34 | raster | doc|fail: doj! |
| 08:59.39 | raster | Dodji: dodj! |
| 08:59.40 | raster | :) |
| 08:59.43 | ScaredyCat | well it'll be usable, just not end user usable |
| 08:59.52 | Dodji | hello raster |
| 09:00.25 | raster | ScaredyCat: well "usable" i normally assume to be end-user |
| 09:00.32 | raster | other people - hackers just ask "does it boot?" |
| 09:00.33 | raster | :) |
| 09:00.33 | ScaredyCat | but I do worry that 'which gsmd shall we use' questions are being asked at theis late stage |
| 09:00.48 | raster | Dodji: did u get to do any of the glamo experiements? |
| 09:00.54 | raster | dma |
| 09:00.55 | raster | etc. |
| 09:00.55 | ScaredyCat | s/theis/this |
| 09:02.17 | Dodji | raster, yes. not good. I will write an email about those asap |
| 09:02.52 | Dodji | raster, basically at best, DMA is twice slower than memcpy for big pixmaps |
| 09:03.04 | Dodji | raster, otherwise it is much worse |
| 09:03.15 | raster | wow |
| 09:03.16 | Dodji | raster, and I think it locks the bus |
| 09:03.23 | raster | crap |
| 09:03.31 | raster | even for big pixmaps? |
| 09:03.37 | Dodji | raster, yes |
| 09:03.45 | raster | for big pixmaps i would have expected it to at least be almost the same |
| 09:04.03 | raster | thats bizarre |
| 09:04.08 | Dodji | no, actually it is worse than twice as slow |
| 09:04.14 | raster | yeah |
| 09:04.18 | raster | that is amazing |
| 09:04.20 | Dodji | I think the setup of the DMA is slow |
| 09:04.22 | raster | less than half the speed |
| 09:04.26 | raster | for large xfers |
| 09:04.33 | raster | it could be |
| 09:04.34 | Dodji | that + the context switch + the setup of the 2D blitter |
| 09:04.37 | raster | but for large regions |
| 09:05.04 | raster | eg 1 screen worth (600kb) setup time should not b a big thing |
| 09:05.52 | martiini | how can anyone convince openmoko buyers that linux on a phone is better than symbian |
| 09:05.58 | raster | we got enough problems now - i didn't need this too :/ |
| 09:06.12 | raster | martiini: have u tried to develop for symbian? |
| 09:06.16 | raster | or have they? |
| 09:06.48 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak (n=stefreak@frnk-4d00fc40.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 09:07.08 | martiini | there must be a reason why nokia is using symbian not linux |
| 09:07.33 | martiini | Im not a nonbeliever , i use linux generally |
| 09:07.40 | raster | history |
| 09:07.49 | raster | there was a time when phons had 1mb or 2mb ram |
| 09:07.52 | raster | and 20mhz cpu's |
| 09:08.03 | raster | and linux just wouldnt even dream of fitting on a phone |
| 09:08.06 | raster | symbian worked |
| 09:08.10 | raster | (just)\ |
| 09:08.13 | raster | that has changed |
| 09:08.21 | raster | but nokia invested heavily in symbian (the company) |
| 09:08.25 | raster | and the infrastructure and the os |
| 09:08.28 | SpeedEvil | We absolutely do not want to convince buyers that they want linux on a phone IMO. We just need to compete feature-wise |
| 09:08.30 | raster | so they are stuck with it |
| 09:08.35 | *** join/#openmoko suuuper (n=suuuper@81-208-88-100.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 09:08.38 | martiini | but will it run nice on a phone .. battery , etc |
| 09:08.42 | raster | SpeedEvil: yup |
| 09:08.51 | *** join/#openmoko nurgle_ (n=nurgle@pirates.ivistar.de) |
| 09:09.13 | raster | SpeedEvil: linux is only a thing for developers. if u do development the difference betwene symbina and linux is galaxies apart. |
| 09:09.17 | martiini | ok , well see ,, I gotta buy a openmoko phone |
| 09:09.18 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 09:09.25 | raster | martiini: no reason it shoul;d be any worse than symbian |
| 09:09.31 | raster | beyond |
| 09:09.33 | raster | "crappy drivers" |
| 09:09.44 | raster | (and just a matter of fixing the linux code) |
| 09:09.46 | martiini | would be nice to have kde4 on a phone :) |
| 09:09.57 | martiini | kde4 on a PHONE !!!! |
| 09:10.12 | holycow | i agree :) |
| 09:10.26 | raster | linux ys |
| 09:10.26 | raster | kde |
| 09:10.27 | raster | no |
| 09:10.33 | raster | u need to heaviyl customise the ui |
| 09:10.38 | holycow | *sigh* |
| 09:10.38 | raster | cram apps down |
| 09:10.42 | raster | change their functionality modes |
| 09:10.45 | holycow | you have no frickin clue do you? |
| 09:10.48 | raster | u have a tiny screen to work with |
| 09:10.49 | holycow | seriously |
| 09:10.50 | SpeedEvil | raster: or include a magnifying glass. |
| 09:10.57 | raster | "kde4" wont work |
| 09:11.00 | raster | u can use kde libs |
| 09:11.05 | raster | and heaviyl modify parts of kde |
| 09:11.09 | raster | and use it as a base to build things |
| 09:11.12 | holycow | do you REALLY think that anyone wanting to run kde4 on environment on moko wants to run desktop apps? |
| 09:11.16 | raster | share core infra code |
| 09:11.17 | holycow | you can't be that retarded? |
| 09:11.23 | raster | share the widget set and back-ends |
| 09:11.31 | raster | but u really need to take a fresh look at how u do a ui on a phone |
| 09:11.38 | holycow | no shit sherlock |
| 09:11.44 | holycow | congratulations captain obvious |
| 09:11.54 | martiini | ubuntu mobile is out as well but Im not sure if it runs on anything |
| 09:12.06 | *** join/#openmoko simon____ (n=simon@vcmsms1.soft.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 09:12.15 | raster | martiini: first ubuntu mobile is an order of magnitude bigger srcreen-wise |
| 09:12.20 | raster | they are looking at 4"-7" screens |
| 09:12.23 | raster | 800x480 land |
| 09:12.32 | raster | and it is customised with a special env |
| 09:12.37 | holycow | i run kubuntu on something along those lines already |
| 09:12.38 | raster | not "gnome" |
| 09:12.51 | raster | phones are VGa or less mostly |
| 09:12.54 | raster | and much smaller screens |
| 09:12.59 | raster | than "ubuntu mobile" |
| 09:13.03 | holycow | sure |
| 09:13.10 | holycow | thats why a lot of us want kde4 |
| 09:13.13 | holycow | we can take plasma |
| 09:13.20 | holycow | and VERY EASILY make any ui we want |
| 09:13.32 | holycow | for interacting with the file system or whateve |
| 09:14.03 | holycow | obviously a whole new set of apps will need to be written that are optimized on the backend and have interfaces designed for such small realestate |
| 09:14.29 | holycow | i saw someone the other day show some really terrific e17 screenies |
| 09:14.37 | holycow | lol maybe it was you! hehe |
| 09:15.20 | martiini | and then .. how can they get components if samsung and other big producers sell only to apple, nokia and other big producers |
| 09:15.50 | raster | holycow: hehehehe |
| 09:16.00 | martiini | I would expect that big phone manufacturers have exclusive contracts |
| 09:16.12 | raster | martiini: some components are exclusive |
| 09:16.14 | raster | not all are |
| 09:16.19 | SpeedEvil | Marcel_M: very little is exclusive |
| 09:16.21 | holycow | SpeedEvil: i think it depends on the audience |
| 09:16.23 | raster | the biugger u are the cheaper your costs for compnents |
| 09:16.29 | holycow | i think different audiences have different messages |
| 09:16.29 | raster | and the earlier u get access to better stuff |
| 09:16.34 | holycow | for the iphone idiots, yes features |
| 09:16.35 | raster | but as such anyone can buy them |
| 09:16.41 | holycow | for developers you can have many messages |
| 09:16.48 | piksi | oh man, 4-7" screen sounds great |
| 09:16.50 | holycow | there are many many other demographics out there |
| 09:16.52 | piksi | for a touchscreen phone |
| 09:16.56 | raster | just the most sought after "new and sexy" components are often "sold out" as the big makers buy up all supplies |
| 09:17.01 | holycow | you can also plug the 'linux + freedom' angle if you wanted to |
| 09:17.23 | holycow | after that its all strategy |
| 09:17.26 | raster | piksi: that'd be one huge-arse phone. u got a pocket big enough? |
| 09:17.41 | raster | piksi: rememebr the bigger the sceen the more power it takes to backlight it too and thus th bigger your battery... |
| 09:17.42 | raster | etc. |
| 09:17.43 | raster | :) |
| 09:17.59 | holycow | http://geekstuff4u.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=582 |
| 09:18.03 | holycow | i have kubuntu on one of those |
| 09:18.14 | piksi | raster: i have no problem with e90 and my first mobile back in 94 was even bigger than that (nokia 1611) |
| 09:18.15 | holycow | it is amazing indeed but yes not a phone |
| 09:18.49 | raster | piksi: expectations have changed |
| 09:19.17 | holycow | i don't buy the whole touch screen phone idea tho |
| 09:19.22 | martiini | openmoko MUST stress and advetise the linux + freedom aspect ... I would think its a sales argument |
| 09:19.23 | piksi | well, at least in europe the "smaller smaller" trend is quite passee afaik |
| 09:19.25 | holycow | i don't see that as a feature that is usefull |
| 09:19.32 | piksi | holycow: i agree |
| 09:19.33 | holycow | i have lots of lcd touch devices |
| 09:19.47 | piksi | i've always found writing on touch screen difficult simply because of the lack of feedback |
| 09:19.48 | holycow | they are essentially useless except for certain task specific jobs |
| 09:19.58 | holycow | thats pretty well it yeah |
| 09:20.13 | piksi | i don't like nokia phones nowadays but i must stress that e90 keyboard is heck fast and intuitive for writing long texts and surfing |
| 09:20.19 | *** join/#openmoko Genesis (n=Ronan@AMontsouris-153-1-10-19.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:20.19 | Genesis | yop |
| 09:20.32 | martiini | touchscreen devices reming me of Star Trek Enterprise |
| 09:20.34 | holycow | i wouldn't mindhaving a square moko with a keyboard that flips out when you put it on its side like some of the wince devices |
| 09:20.53 | piksi | and i must stress also that writing on a stylus is a big ":-(" imho |
| 09:21.02 | piksi | it's even more stressful than using thumbs |
| 09:21.15 | piksi | but still, i'm eager to have neo simply for the software |
| 09:21.20 | holycow | piksi: i was thinking of buying an e90 |
| 09:21.24 | holycow | what do you think of those? |
| 09:21.36 | holycow | i guess the real question is about apps available on it? |
| 09:21.39 | holycow | like ssh and the like? |
| 09:22.03 | piksi | holycow: well sure there's putty and other ssh clients for symbian and thousands of useful programs |
| 09:22.13 | piksi | but the problem is that symbian is a living hell to code for |
| 09:22.36 | piksi | and that if you buy symbian x.x Y edition phone with feature pack Z, you're stuck with it |
| 09:22.43 | holycow | really eh? |
| 09:22.48 | piksi | there won't be symbian 9.5 for e90 |
| 09:22.49 | piksi | yes. |
| 09:22.53 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@61.16.248.242) |
| 09:22.58 | holycow | crap so its a dead end |
| 09:23.00 | piksi | holycow: e90 is awesome hardware wise |
| 09:23.22 | piksi | it's very easy and intuitive to use in your hand |
| 09:23.37 | piksi | but the software UI is unfinished |
| 09:23.55 | holycow | aha |
| 09:24.10 | holycow | the thing i like about the moko is that the software and hardware is properly abstracted from each other |
| 09:24.11 | holycow | so |
| 09:24.27 | holycow | the form factor then is just a secondary component (to some degree i knkow there are limitations) |
| 09:24.34 | *** join/#openmoko cedric (n=cedric@mieuh.bluebugs.org) |
| 09:24.39 | piksi | holycow: yes, that is great |
| 09:24.41 | holycow | so you could get this probably fairly easily: http://www.mobilmania.cz/Getfile.aspx?id_file=16379 |
| 09:24.51 | *** join/#openmoko kristian-m (i=kristian@217.13.205.113) |
| 09:25.19 | piksi | holycow: i'd love to see e90 run openmoko |
| 09:25.59 | holycow | what sort of cpu does it have? |
| 09:26.05 | piksi | arm9+arm7 iirc |
| 09:26.15 | raster | the problem is that right now linux phones - open ones that run x11 and whatever u want linux-wise are a hacker toy |
| 09:26.18 | raster | not for average users |
| 09:26.22 | raster | u cant advocate to them |
| 09:26.26 | raster | there is nthing for them |
| 09:26.30 | raster | they dont care |
| 09:26.30 | holycow | 330 mhz arm |
| 09:26.30 | holycow | okay |
| 09:26.35 | piksi | raster: true |
| 09:26.36 | raster | if u are a developer - its another matter |
| 09:26.49 | holycow | sure |
| 09:26.53 | holycow | but you haveto start somewhere |
| 09:26.55 | holycow | otherwise |
| 09:26.58 | piksi | raster: but i bet that as the desktop linux user group continues to grow, it's easier to advertise "open phones" to them |
| 09:27.01 | holycow | you may as well pull an apple |
| 09:27.02 | raster | an "open" linux phone u can upgrade - u can develop an app for using just about any language and toolkit u like - that is a dream come true |
| 09:27.11 | raster | so for now - u are a linux nerd |
| 09:27.13 | raster | or a developer |
| 09:27.14 | holycow | and lock in your own wrapper around bsd |
| 09:27.15 | raster | or u dont care |
| 09:27.30 | raster | once there is such a wealth of cool software for linux and it always gets improved (for linux based open phones) |
| 09:27.31 | holycow | however your point is retarded |
| 09:27.36 | holycow | your just complaining about packaging |
| 09:27.41 | raster | then u may begin to have something to "sell" to ordinry people |
| 09:27.54 | holycow | again |
| 09:28.03 | holycow | how do you expect to get there without releasing to devs first? |
| 09:28.13 | holycow | microsoft doesn't sell to consumers directly at all |
| 09:28.19 | holycow | their main target is isvs |
| 09:28.21 | holycow | isvs sell for them |
| 09:28.28 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@kensentme.xs4all.nl) |
| 09:29.25 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@lbcsi.fri.uni-lj.si) |
| 09:30.05 | holycow | i was at a friends house the other day checking out his play station setup |
| 09:30.08 | *** join/#openmoko Aniruddha_NL (n=Aniruddh@s5590cf7b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 09:30.29 | holycow | the one thing that i got out of that is the playstation ui idea would be pretty neat for the moko |
| 09:30.59 | holycow | the e17 demo was more efficient ui wise, but lots of good ideas one can drop on top of a good framework |
| 09:31.28 | holycow | redoing a lot of kde apps (once ported to kde4 especially) ought to be not too difficult to redo the ui for them |
| 09:31.29 | raster | holycow: yup |
| 09:31.41 | holycow | the trick will be to get the backend fast and efficient i think |
| 09:31.47 | holycow | and stable |
| 09:32.20 | holycow | raster: watching some of theonline demos of the moko, and iphone and such, especially the e17 demo |
| 09:32.24 | ScaredyCat | you're a little biased though raster |
| 09:32.37 | holycow | i keep on thinking that that interface would also be terrific on a media center |
| 09:32.41 | piksi | holycow: link? |
| 09:32.55 | holycow | to the e17 demo? lets see if i still have that |
| 09:33.06 | piksi | yep |
| 09:33.41 | martiini | wouldnt it be a great selling argument if you tell someone trey can buy a phone with kde4 desktop - just the same they have on their laptop |
| 09:33.55 | holycow | martiini: for me it would |
| 09:33.59 | holycow | actually |
| 09:34.02 | holycow | for our company it would be huge |
| 09:34.16 | raster | http://www.rasterman.com/files/moshi-mockup.ogv |
| 09:34.18 | raster | :) |
| 09:34.23 | SpeedEvil | Marcel_M: Sure - if youre phone has a 10" screen. |
| 09:34.28 | SpeedEvil | martii: |
| 09:34.31 | raster | of course utterly unusable on a 2.8" screen |
| 09:34.31 | piksi | well d'oh |
| 09:34.32 | raster | too tiny |
| 09:34.37 | raster | but the slickness is nice |
| 09:34.46 | piksi | of course you need modified ui's for different platforms |
| 09:34.51 | piksi | even though the system itself would be similar |
| 09:35.08 | holycow | lol oh fuck |
| 09:35.16 | holycow | i'm insulting employees of moko |
| 09:35.18 | holycow | lol i'll shutup now |
| 09:35.25 | holycow | piksi: there you go thats what i saw |
| 09:35.26 | raster | ScaredyCat: i am biased. never going to lie about that :) |
| 09:35.55 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 09:36.30 | SpeedEvil | Anyone worked out how the flashing of the Calypso works? |
| 09:37.12 | martiini | I sounded like Steve Jobs just before : wouldnt it be great, wouldnt it be great if you can run your osx on your iphone |
| 09:37.24 | martiini | :) |
| 09:37.42 | Stephmw_mobile | martiini: sure, but that's the 'marketing' version of osx |
| 09:37.59 | Stephmw_mobile | martiini: we can do a marketing version of KDE too... it's called e17 :) |
| 09:38.13 | martiini | yerr osxxx on yeer iphooon |
| 09:39.11 | martiini | sorry |
| 09:39.58 | Stephmw_mobile | raster: nice vid - concept mockup? |
| 09:39.59 | SpeedEvil | GEM on your phone! |
| 09:40.22 | raster | Stephmw_mobile: yeah - concept mockup done by some french designers using evl and some c++ goo |
| 09:40.26 | ScaredyCat | hey! leave GEM alone! |
| 09:40.54 | raster | GEm |
| 09:40.55 | raster | ewwww |
| 09:41.46 | buz | is the video running on neo? hard to believe you get such good shots of the display |
| 09:41.54 | raster | buz: hahahahahah |
| 09:41.55 | raster | no way |
| 09:42.02 | holycow | so just out of curiosity is e17 then going to be used on th emoko or is that just a test? |
| 09:42.22 | raster | holycow: e17 is runing there already - see illume |
| 09:42.36 | buz | oh it says mockup :P |
| 09:42.42 | raster | have u see emdte's "dinge" python ui demo? it makes calls even |
| 09:42.45 | holycow | raster: i mean officially? |
| 09:42.52 | ScaredyCat | s/m/c/ |
| 09:42.55 | raster | holycow: /wii raster |
| 09:43.38 | ScaredyCat | you can dl an image of emdete's dinge from my repo |
| 09:44.34 | raster | gta02 is a problem case tho |
| 09:44.38 | raster | due to the crappy video bus |
| 09:44.42 | *** join/#openmoko xcasex (n=rrg@ua-83-227-156-234.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 09:44.42 | raster | need to work around that |
| 09:44.57 | raster | and that mjeans getting smart about design and knowing what it can and cannot accel |
| 09:45.08 | raster | and making sure things are accelerated that it can do |
| 09:45.10 | raster | in the right way |
| 09:45.51 | ScaredyCat | that was a rather disappointing video :( |
| 09:46.07 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@61.16.248.242) |
| 09:46.49 | *** join/#openmoko Tobi (n=tobi@pD9E86BB4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:47.39 | holycow | lol oh wait |
| 09:47.45 | holycow | thats NOT what i saw the other day |
| 09:47.53 | *** join/#openmoko ndavey (n=neil@60-240-227-199-vic-pppoe.tpgi.com.au) |
| 09:47.54 | holycow | raster: wher eis that vidoeo of the peson using the ui? |
| 09:47.58 | buz | so does gta02 stand a chance running a decent gui? |
| 09:48.38 | holycow | errr |
| 09:48.45 | holycow | yeah right *hmmm* |
| 09:49.10 | raster | ScaredyCat: i know - not much there. but its quite polished :) |
| 09:49.36 | raster | holycow: http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/ |
| 09:49.53 | raster | buz: possibly. with care and attention. |
| 09:49.58 | holycow | oh there we go! |
| 09:50.26 | buz | ripping out glamo is probably out of question by now? |
| 09:50.31 | holycow | nite |
| 09:50.39 | ScaredyCat | yes, looks nice.. needs more content |
| 09:51.23 | buz | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:51.42 | raster | buz: changing anything in hardware is out of the question right now |
| 09:51.48 | martiini | raster , do you work @ http://www.rasterman.com/files/moshi-mockup.ogv |
| 09:51.52 | buz | i figured |
| 09:52.03 | raster | martiini: work @? |
| 09:52.05 | martiini | I just had a look @ http://www.rasterman.com/files/moshi-mockup.ogv .... thats just WOW |
| 09:52.18 | buz | raster: i think he means work on |
| 09:52.20 | raster | no - some crazy french designers did it :) |
| 09:52.21 | martiini | sorry, are you one of the developers |
| 09:52.33 | raster | they have been using enlightenment libs for things like a home automation control system ui |
| 09:52.37 | martiini | ah, ok , I erally liked that |
| 09:52.39 | raster | they sent me a mockup |
| 09:52.48 | buz | i love the gui |
| 09:52.53 | raster | i thought i'd video capture the output of the code and put it up to inspire people |
| 09:52.54 | raster | :) |
| 09:53.02 | raster | its vry polished |
| 09:53.06 | raster | doesnt do much |
| 09:53.08 | raster | at all |
| 09:53.16 | buz | well that's not entirely unlike openmoko itself |
| 09:53.18 | raster | its just a ui mockup thats a combo of images, design layout and code |
| 09:53.21 | raster | but its nice |
| 09:53.27 | martiini | raster , but where are you located? youre in england right? |
| 09:53.41 | raster | martiini: i am? |
| 09:53.51 | martiini | not that Id like to visit |
| 09:53.57 | xcasex | errrr |
| 09:54.01 | ScaredyCat | stalker alert! |
| 09:54.03 | xcasex | hi raster.. |
| 09:54.20 | xcasex | ScaredyCat: time to send carsten a tazer |
| 09:54.33 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 09:55.26 | raster | xcasex: :) |
| 09:55.46 | raster | martiini: i'm based - well thats a good question. currently i'm split brained between taipei and sydney |
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| 09:59.44 | martiini | raster , no , I only asked in a sense .. like where is openmoko software being developed |
| 10:00.00 | martiini | sorry to crash your channel .. :) |
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| 10:00.54 | raster | martiini: ummm - it's spread out |
| 10:01.09 | raster | all over the place actually |
| 10:01.28 | martiini | well , yea , obviously ,, we live in era of internet and google |
| 10:02.28 | martiini | like ,,, Trolltech , who develop kde4 , theyre norwegians , arent they |
| 10:05.21 | martiini | will you be able to do apt-get dist-upgrade on a phone eventually? I would like that |
| 10:05.51 | SpeedEvil | you can now - moore or less - with ipkg |
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| 10:48.17 | zash | lol |
| 10:48.26 | zash | not even 3g? |
| 10:49.06 | zash | aka GPRS * 8 |
| 10:50.44 | piksi | i know |
| 10:51.08 | piksi | i'd wish 3G too but perhaps in the next revision |
| 10:51.51 | piksi | neo should definately not be left lagging behind like iphone |
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| 10:52.31 | maroi | afaik currently theres also no iphone with 3g |
| 10:52.52 | zash | but if one takes a usb-3g-modem |
| 10:52.56 | zash | and rapes it into the neo |
| 10:53.02 | piksi | iphone was clearly designed for us market as apple was certain that none of the standard basic features in even the cheaper nokia symbian models were needed |
| 10:53.21 | piksi | and the whole phone is (even after opening the api) extremely dumbed down |
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| 11:22.12 | cesarb | wow, http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/ is utterly unreadable... small-type very-light-gray on black? |
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| 11:34.11 | ScaredyCat | ctrl + cesarb |
| 11:35.10 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: ? |
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| 11:35.38 | ScaredyCat | in your browser... ctrl and + increase the font size... |
| 11:35.56 | ScaredyCat | and I agree, tiny text, grey on black != good |
| 11:36.34 | ScaredyCat | ~lart raster for using tiny text and two similar colours |
| 11:36.34 | apt | keeps mailing raster free America Online CDs until he drowns for using tiny text and two similar colours |
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| 11:39.55 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: I did something even simpler than increasing font size: I went to the View>Stylesheet menu, and disabled the whole style |
| 11:40.03 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: making it MUCH better |
| 11:40.40 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: same thing, in fact, I have to do on lists.openmoko.org's archives, because of the crazy "unvisited links are orange, visited links are orange" colour scheme |
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| 11:52.22 | ScaredyCat | heheh... yah... those darned pesky kids.. |
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| 12:27.05 | BlackFog | hi @ll |
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| 12:36.19 | zash | atll+ |
| 12:36.19 | zash | ? |
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| 13:56.57 | mwester | mornin' |
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| 14:03.32 | wurp2 | good ${englishApproximation(time())} |
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| 14:57.40 | ScaredyCat | it's oh so quiet.... shhhh sssshhh |
| 14:57.58 | wurp2 | I noticed that |
| 14:58.02 | Sup3rkiddo | HAHA |
| 14:58.06 | wurp2 | So why were you trying to figure out who I really am? |
| 14:58.45 | ScaredyCat | which wurp2 obviously doesn't read |
| 14:59.04 | wurp2 | Yeah, not really |
| 14:59.25 | ScaredyCat | http://blog.automated.it/ |
| 15:01.45 | wurp2 | That battery pack at the top of planet looks remarkably like the one I hacked to use on my GP2X |
| 15:02.20 | wurp2 | Hey, I had no idea ScaredyCat == Andy! |
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| 16:04.23 | piksi | one important question i want to know about neo: |
| 16:05.11 | piksi | how have you handled the touchscreen while talking to the phone? is there a sensor detecting the face or how are accidental presses prevented? |
| 16:05.29 | wurp2 | Accidental presses are not currently prevented |
| 16:05.51 | ScaredyCat | and I have a fat face |
| 16:05.52 | wurp2 | FreeRunner could prevent them by not accepting keypresses while you're on a call and the phone is vertical |
| 16:06.02 | wurp2 | Heh, I have had some accidental presses |
| 16:06.06 | wurp2 | but never anything important |
| 16:06.07 | anrp | the clear solution is to ssh in through bluetooth and temporarily disable the touchscreen when you receive a call! |
| 16:06.48 | anrp | what if you sidetalk? |
| 16:07.00 | piksi | wurp2: i'd say many times when i speak the phone isn't vertical, i might for example be lying on the bed when i answer a phone so it's near horizontal. alignment is'nt a viable option imo |
| 16:07.23 | wurp2 | Well, what else would you do? |
| 16:07.25 | ScaredyCat | tmi! tmi! |
| 16:07.26 | XorA | put a huge rm -rf / button in middle of TS during calls, that'll fix the problem |
| 16:07.31 | wurp2 | I don't know of anything else you could do |
| 16:07.31 | anrp | look for the motion of bring it to your ear |
| 16:07.35 | wurp2 | excellent plan |
| 16:07.35 | anrp | is what i can think of |
| 16:07.47 | ScaredyCat | smash the touchscreen |
| 16:07.48 | anrp | some jolt as the screen is pressed, a smooth accel/decel, then stationary |
| 16:07.56 | anrp | well stationary ish |
| 16:08.02 | ScaredyCat | shake to lock, shake to unlock |
| 16:08.03 | wurp2 | anrp: That seems difficult to get right 60% of the time, and basically impossible the other 40% |
| 16:08.03 | piksi | well afaik in most phones they use a small sensor to detect if your face covers the phone |
| 16:08.04 | anrp | you could be driving or on a bus or something _~ |
| 16:08.15 | Sup3rkiddo | ..and handsfree |
| 16:08.18 | wurp2 | ScaredyCat: That's a cool idea |
| 16:08.28 | zash | on answer call do disable tuchscreen; wait untill aux.press |
| 16:08.35 | wurp2 | although shake is one of those things you'd want to use for everything |
| 16:08.52 | anrp | then a twist-in-place |
| 16:08.59 | anrp | with two accelerometers you can measure that |
| 16:09.26 | wurp2 | I think the aux button idea is the most practical |
| 16:09.38 | ScaredyCat | shake n twist == answer and lock, shake == answer no lock |
| 16:09.49 | anrp | shake n bake == mmm |
| 16:09.55 | ScaredyCat | shake n vac |
| 16:09.57 | piksi | why just not use the same cheap way nearly every other touchscreen phone uses |
| 16:10.05 | ScaredyCat | == put the freshness back |
| 16:10.11 | wurp2 | The accelerometers are gonna be a lot of fun |
| 16:10.14 | ScaredyCat | light sensor |
| 16:10.18 | wurp2 | FreeRunner == magic wand |
| 16:10.34 | ScaredyCat | I already have a magic wand :P |
| 16:12.48 | SpeedEvil | anrp: you really can't measure any but the sharpest twists with the differential acceleration. |
| 16:12.52 | piksi | waving and shaking and twist'n'shouting the phone around or using a headset as the only options sounds weak |
| 16:13.06 | SpeedEvil | Voice acceptance |
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| 16:17.53 | anrp | mm, true, differential can't get you much with a weak adc |
| 16:18.04 | anrp | however static acceleration can |
| 16:22.49 | SpeedEvil | Yes - but the differential won't have any effect in that case |
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| 16:32.57 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4190 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/libopkg/opkg_cmd.c: |
| 16:32.57 | CIA-16 | openmoko: opkg: use a single temporary directory for entire update transaction and remove |
| 16:32.57 | CIA-16 | openmoko: it when done. |
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| 16:37.01 | nardul | Afternoon. |
| 16:37.35 | nardul | How "only for devs" is the neo at the moment? |
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| 16:40.02 | wurp2 | nardul: Well, you can't buy a new 1973 any more, nor a FreeRunner yet |
| 16:40.17 | wurp2 | I use my 1973 for my daily phone, but a lot of ppl think I'm crazy for doing so |
| 16:40.37 | Stephmw_mobile | it's not rally ready for app devs atm either |
| 16:40.42 | Stephmw_mobile | *really |
| 16:43.43 | wurp2 | afk for a bit |
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| 16:50.12 | mwester | On the other hand, I'm currently working on problems that require that the front of the unit be removed and it be cabled up to the debug board. |
| 16:50.36 | mwester | So it may basically work, but the lacking bits of stuff are far from being "window dressing" and tidying up... ;) |
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| 16:53.18 | PBeck | hi |
| 16:53.50 | nardul | wurp2, How useable is it? |
| 16:54.18 | nardul | wurp2, And, would the freerunner be better, or worse off? |
| 16:55.14 | wurp2 | nardul: For what I want, it's usable |
| 16:55.39 | nardul | wurp2, Which is simply a phone? |
| 16:55.42 | wurp2 | nardul: I want: phone w/sms, GPS, linux terminal, python, media player |
| 16:56.03 | *** join/#openmoko alvarezp (n=alvarezp@201.139.193.235) |
| 16:56.06 | nardul | wurp2, What i want is only a phone, everything else is a bonus. How's the battery life? |
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| 16:56.12 | wurp2 | For all of that, it works great, with the caveat that I have to fiddle with it for maybe 30 minutes every few days if I want to get software updates |
| 16:56.18 | wurp2 | Battery life is crap :-( |
| 16:56.20 | wurp2 | 4 hours |
| 16:56.36 | wurp2 | Off & on recently suspend & resume on call has worked (although never for me) |
| 16:56.44 | wurp2 | Which extends battery life drastically, to over a day |
| 16:56.49 | nardul | okay. I fiddle anyways. |
| 16:56.59 | wurp2 | I'm almost always near a computer, so 4 hour battery life is OK |
| 16:57.03 | nardul | wurp2, Will that change, resume and suspend, with freerunner? |
| 16:57.28 | nardul | wurp2, For going drinking at night that might be a problem though :) |
| 16:57.43 | wurp2 | Yeah, with FreeRunner, and for the 1973 over time, suspend & resume should work, and cpu speed should also be tunable to dramatically increase battery life |
| 16:58.12 | wurp2 | I would be surprised if FreeRunner battery life is less than a week when all the fixes are in for suspend/resume |
| 16:58.28 | wurp2 | assuming moderate use during the week (mostly only for calls) |
| 16:58.33 | wurp2 | er, I should say low use |
| 16:58.52 | nardul | okay |
| 16:59.15 | wurp2 | I have no idea when you should expect suspend & resume to work well on FreeRunner, though |
| 16:59.24 | nardul | I'ma get one them. My current phone is annoying.Would give me a readon to work on my python aswell. |
| 16:59.34 | wurp2 | tentatively based on mailing list entries I think it will mostly be good when FR comes out |
| 16:59.45 | nardul | wurp2, When would, estimated, be te next release after the freerunner |
| 17:00.03 | ahven | wurp2: is there a fix coming for turning the display off _completely_ , not turning the brightness to 0? |
| 17:00.22 | wurp2 | ahven: I know nothing about that :-( |
| 17:00.33 | ahven | that would be a batterysaver |
| 17:00.37 | wurp2 | How much power diff is there between off & brightness == 0? |
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| 17:01.53 | SpeedEvil | significant |
| 17:02.02 | SpeedEvil | you've got 20M/s of RAM bandwidth |
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| 17:43.39 | wurp2 | blist |
| 17:43.45 | wurp2 | sorry, wrong window ;-) |
| 17:45.47 | Genesis | bonne soirée |
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| 18:40.45 | ahven | is GSM the only thing that doesn't correctly turn off when shutting down GTA01? |
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| 18:41.48 | thomasg | ahven, depends, if you shut down gta01 correctly (current kernel + rootfs) it shuts down |
| 18:42.05 | thomasg | at least that's my experience |
| 18:42.31 | ahven | well, the GSM stays active, if I turn it off correctly |
| 18:43.00 | ahven | a week old rootfs+kernel |
| 18:45.37 | ahven | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1003 |
| 18:45.58 | ahven | will try the suggestions there, though the bug is old |
| 18:47.45 | wurp2 | ahven: There is an /etc/init.d script that will take down the gsm |
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| 18:50.38 | ahven | well, why does it still ring on the other side? :) |
| 18:50.51 | emdete | ahven: then you are even registered ;) |
| 18:51.28 | ahven | correct, ergo it doesn't shut down the gsm modem through the normal shutdown |
| 18:51.50 | emdete | ahven: then you haven't shutdown the linux part of the neo correctly ;) |
| 18:52.23 | ahven | emdete: then all of the latest images are affected also |
| 18:53.38 | emdete | ahven: i'm not shure about the state of the last images. problem is, that there must be a command send to the modem before switching it of via kernel. someone (i.e. a program when shutting down) has to do so. |
| 18:54.32 | ahven | rc0.d has a correct Kxxgsmd but why does it fail then? |
| 18:54.34 | wurp2 | ahven: I mean, there is an /etc/init.d script that you can put on your neo to shut down the gsm |
| 18:54.35 | emdete | as far as i know something from package libgsmd will do that |
| 18:54.45 | wurp2 | ahven: Not that there is already one on there by default |
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| 18:58.30 | ahven | well, the default script is useless |
| 18:58.38 | ahven | root@fic-gta01:~# /etc/init.d/gsmd stop |
| 18:58.38 | ahven | Stopping GSM daemon: stopped /usr/sbin/gsmd (pid 1150) |
| 18:58.38 | ahven | gsmd. |
| 18:58.47 | ahven | and it stills rings on the other side |
| 18:59.03 | emdete | :D |
| 18:59.36 | toer | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA01_gsm_modem#Powering_Off_the_GSM_Modem |
| 18:59.47 | wurp2 | ahven: What he said |
| 19:03.04 | ahven | root@fic-gta01:~# cat /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on |
| 19:03.04 | ahven | cat: can't open '/sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on': No such file or directory |
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| 19:03.22 | ahven | so 'power' = old 'power_on' ? |
| 19:04.35 | ahven | strange.. |
| 19:05.26 | ahven | ah, neo1973-pm-gsm.0 |
| 19:08.01 | `pwgen` | emdte: in pyneod the virbrator path has changed from gta01 to neo1973 |
| 19:08.32 | `pwgen` | emdete: in pypwrd.py |
| 19:08.58 | mwester | ahven: yes, the gsmd startup/shutdown script does not turn off the GSM modem itself. Neither does shutdown of the Neo. |
| 19:09.01 | emdete | gta01 is renamed to neo1973 for newer kernel |
| 19:09.14 | mwester | This is a known issue with the gta01, but seems not to be a priority. |
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| 19:10.15 | ahven | what's the name of the X app that lets you enter the PIN? |
| 19:10.34 | `pwgen` | how can i edit the ebrowser.edj ? |
| 19:10.57 | emdete | `pwgen`: you may use edje_decc to extract it |
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| 19:15.08 | ahven | and also..the problem is only with GSM, the GPS goes down nicely with the rest of the hardware? |
| 19:17.56 | mwester | Yes. The GPS is connected downstream from the power management chip, so it powers off when the kernel powers the hardware down. The GSM and some of the audio, IIRC, are connected to the battery side of the power management chip, and remain powered up (unless something expicitly turns them off). |
| 19:18.06 | `pwgen` | emdete: is receiving calls currently supported in pyneod ? |
| 19:18.22 | mwester | The audio driver takes care to do this at nomal shutdown; there is nothing that does this for the GSM device. |
| 19:18.55 | mwester | I just updated http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1003 with the latest version of the script I've suggested we use as a workaround. |
| 19:22.55 | ahven | ok, testing |
| 19:23.22 | ahven | nope |
| 19:23.23 | mwester | Don't forget to make the script executable, or it won't run... |
| 19:23.35 | ahven | or wait |
| 19:23.37 | ahven | off now |
| 19:23.46 | ahven | mwester: thanks :) |
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| 19:30.31 | emdete | `pwgen`: yes. but currently the whole pyneo stack will be changed to meet the otapi requirements. |
| 19:34.44 | `pwgen` | emdete: where can i infos about otapi ? |
| 19:34.53 | `pwgen` | ..find infos |
| 19:35.20 | emdete | open smartphone project on linuxtogo |
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| 20:04.28 | wurp2 | linuxtogo.org is down? |
| 20:05.26 | mickeyl | no, just load of 30 |
| 20:05.39 | zash | :( |
| 20:05.44 | zash | poor server |
| 20:05.59 | spydon | I cant do more then ping it^^ :P |
| 20:06.04 | wurp2 | sounds as if you need some caching turned on |
| 20:06.26 | spydon | probably :P |
| 20:07.28 | mwester | It's all those projects, churning out code... |
| 20:07.46 | ahven | ah, www.angstrom-distribution.org is an alias for it |
| 20:07.57 | ahven | or vice versa |
| 20:08.06 | wurp2 | Is there build hosting happening on the same box as the web hosting? |
| 20:08.31 | ahven | Downloading http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/feeds/2007/ipk/glibc/armv4t/base/Packages.gz |
| 20:08.45 | ahven | and no movement whatsoever :) |
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| 20:19.41 | emdete | the kernel uses smilies? <12>Mar 8 07:32:47 kernel: pcf50633_battvolt timeout :-( |
| 20:20.54 | stefan_schmidt | emdete: well, even the kernel is sometimes sad |
| 20:20.56 | zash | try grepping random swearwords in the kernel source |
| 20:21.23 | stefan_schmidt | zash: Try this on mplayer and you will never use it again. :) |
| 20:21.37 | stefan_schmidt | Happened to me. I'm in love with xine now. :) |
| 20:21.53 | zash | lol |
| 20:27.18 | ar0x | roh: ? |
| 20:28.35 | ar0x | mickeyl: ? |
| 20:29.34 | mickeyl | what#s up? |
| 20:29.52 | ar0x | oh, perfect :) |
| 20:35.53 | CIA-16 | freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r93 10/trunk/software/pyneog/ (7 files in 2 dirs): |
| 20:35.53 | CIA-16 | freesmartphone.org: sample detail view added |
| 20:35.53 | CIA-16 | freesmartphone.org: underground theme |
| 20:35.53 | CIA-16 | freesmartphone.org: many small fixes |
| 20:38.35 | ahven | is there anything implemented to easily monitor the status of a ppp link? |
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| 20:45.06 | zash | watch ifconfig ppp0 ? |
| 20:45.49 | ahven | besides that :) like a icon in the matchbox-panel-2 ? |
| 20:45.55 | ahven | an* |
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| 20:50.38 | ahven | hmm, perhaps using sound |
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| 20:53.20 | kdean06 | As an ego boosting pissing contest, I got into an uptime pasting contest in another chanell and on a whim, decided to past the Neo's uptime. I discovered that, sitting on the charger doing nothing else, the system load never fell under 1.08. :( |
| 20:55.42 | anrp | uptime contests are ... |
| 20:58.32 | SpeedEvil | I've had a machine up at 4000 load before, and it was fine |
| 20:58.45 | SpeedEvil | (several thousand sleep 3hs) |
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| 21:14.29 | ewon | wtf |
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| 21:15.29 | zash | hm |
| 21:15.35 | zash | load contest |
| 21:17.11 | cb22 | 11:16PM up 243523523523 days, 8:57, 3 users, load averages: 0.04, 0.01, 0.00 |
| 21:17.15 | cb22 | i win :) |
| 21:17.35 | Psi | heh |
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| 21:17.53 | anrp | what, a no-load contest? |
| 21:17.54 | anrp | lol |
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| 21:19.17 | cb22 | my uptime on my VPS is 36 days, im rather happy :) |
| 21:21.36 | zash | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:29.01 | zash | but |
| 21:29.07 | zash | why 5 users |
| 21:30.23 | cb22 | was that |
| 21:30.36 | cb22 | really nessacery to split over 2 lines :) |
| 21:49.51 | ahven | damnit, pulseaudio doesn't wan't to output any sound |
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| 22:10.46 | spydon | are you sure that you arent deaf, ahven? |
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| 22:15.00 | *** join/#openmoko alphaone (n=alphaone@2001:638:602:af01:0:0:0:1) |
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| 22:15.57 | ahven | quite sure :) |
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| 23:11.45 | ahven | unsecure yes, but is it possible to save the PIN for the SIM? :) |
| 23:12.01 | ahven | using a data-only SIM anyway |
| 23:13.13 | *** part/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@sirius.lasnet.de) |
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| 23:39.59 | spydon | there has been a long time since the last community update... |
| 23:41.01 | mickeyl | subscribe openmoko-kernel |
| 23:41.13 | mickeyl | that contains more information than the community update ;) |
| 23:41.21 | mickeyl | executive summary: busy with preparing MP |
| 23:41.42 | anrp | mp? |
| 23:41.54 | anrp | mmm multiprocessing phone goodness... |
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| 23:50.59 | spydon | mickeyl, thats the problem, it contains to much information for me :P |
| 23:51.22 | spydon | GN folks |
| 23:52.08 | mickeyl | heh |
| 23:52.16 | mickeyl | you can't please everyone... |
| 23:57.32 | xcasex | mickeyl: *cough* |