| 00:02.49 | uriahheep | lol |
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| 00:03.23 | mmu_man | ... I'm pondering porting Haiku to a Neo... |
| 00:03.43 | mmu_man | I should first get one I suppose :) |
| 00:04.44 | uriahheep | mmu_man: lol :) cool |
| 00:04.56 | uriahheep | mmu_man: they're sold out, though :P |
| 00:05.05 | uriahheep | but yeah, it would be cool to have haiku on a handheld, lol |
| 00:05.22 | mmu_man | a bird told me 02 should ship soon ? |
| 00:06.27 | uriahheep | heh |
| 00:06.35 | uriahheep | americans. |
| 00:06.36 | uriahheep | :P |
| 00:06.37 | uriahheep | j/k |
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| 00:07.21 | mmu_man | I think we should mount a refund operation for WinCE on phones... |
| 00:07.26 | ewon | heh |
| 00:07.28 | ewon | good luck |
| 00:07.35 | mmu_man | after all it's the same as on PCs, it can even be upgradable |
| 00:07.50 | mmu_man | but they one would have to sue hw makers for not providing specs :^) |
| 00:09.26 | mmu_man | (I mean, for us devs specs *are* the manual... my parent's 20 y/o tv set came with full schematics.. sigh) |
| 00:09.47 | mmu_man | anyway, still along way to go for Haiku, but we have a start of BT support even :) |
| 00:10.05 | mmu_man | and it seems the cpu in Neo has an mmu so it should be portable |
| 00:15.39 | CVirus | mmu_man: Haiki OS ? |
| 00:15.43 | CVirus | Haiku* |
| 00:15.54 | mmu_man | http://haiku-os.org/ |
| 00:16.28 | mmu_man | BeOS rewrite as Free Software |
| 00:16.38 | CVirus | yeah |
| 00:16.53 | CVirus | is anybody really using this ? |
| 00:17.06 | mjr | no |
| 00:17.08 | uriahheep | it isn't really finished |
| 00:17.15 | mmu_man | BeOS that is |
| 00:17.21 | uriahheep | why not haiku? :P |
| 00:17.45 | mmu_man | when it has more uptime than 4 days :) |
| 00:17.50 | mmu_man | which is not that bad already |
| 00:17.59 | mmu_man | still some bugs to fix first |
| 00:18.43 | CVirus | mmu_man: what special stuff can it perform ? |
| 00:18.49 | uriahheep | god damn i want this updating to be done already |
| 00:19.08 | mmu_man | http://www.haiku-os.org/about |
| 00:19.10 | CVirus | uriahheep: what update ? |
| 00:19.32 | OasisGames | Quick question: Does OpenMoko's version of Matchbox have a compositor? |
| 00:19.43 | uriahheep | CVirus: gentoo :P |
| 00:19.53 | mmu_man | CVirus things like live queries, well done devfs (udev shrug) |
| 00:20.18 | mmu_man | no bloody modprobe to find modules, they just find themselves (why should hte user do that ?) |
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| 00:20.36 | CVirus | uriahheep: I finished a 700mb update a couple of days ago |
| 00:20.40 | uriahheep | lol |
| 00:21.03 | mmu_man | CVirus and a consistent no-useless-eyecandy gui |
| 00:21.08 | uriahheep | doing gimp now, will be doing firefox later... |
| 00:21.10 | mmu_man | which is still hard to find on linux :D |
| 00:21.31 | CVirus | agreed |
| 00:21.38 | uriahheep | mmu_man: i use just a few components of xfce4, along with compiz-fusion ;) |
| 00:21.44 | uriahheep | quite simplistic, while being pretty :P |
| 00:21.54 | CVirus | E17 ftw |
| 00:21.57 | CVirus | :-p |
| 00:21.58 | uriahheep | rofl |
| 00:22.08 | uriahheep | eternity^17 |
| 00:22.09 | mmu_man | well I use linux too |
| 00:22.17 | mmu_man | just it's not there yet for a desktop |
| 00:22.24 | uriahheep | heh |
| 00:22.26 | uriahheep | sure it is |
| 00:22.29 | CVirus | uriahheep: shut up .. troll :-p |
| 00:22.30 | uriahheep | if you set it up right :P |
| 00:22.52 | uriahheep | just don't be lazy and configure it properly once, and then you'll never have to again ;) |
| 00:23.18 | mmu_man | (oh, and I ported XEmacs to BeOS, so I have all I can need :D) (and it looks even nicer than on Linux, AA and DnD) |
| 00:23.21 | uriahheep | hrm, i wish i had weed for the bus ride home... |
| 00:23.52 | mmu_man | http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_xemacs_zeta_pretty_gonx.png |
| 00:24.29 | uriahheep | :S |
| 00:24.52 | uriahheep | how many bits are those window decorations in? |
| 00:24.52 | mmu_man | hmm I hope not everyone here is hooked on drugs :p |
| 00:25.08 | uriahheep | :P |
| 00:25.14 | CVirus | I rarely do drugs |
| 00:25.20 | uriahheep | weed isn't a drug, if you don't think that beer is a drug :P |
| 00:25.32 | CVirus | beer isn't |
| 00:25.41 | uriahheep | indeed |
| 00:25.43 | CVirus | anyways .. I want my freerunner now |
| 00:25.46 | uriahheep | lol |
| 00:25.54 | uriahheep | wait about 3 months |
| 00:26.21 | OasisGames | 3 months is too long, my current phone is already broken and needs a replacement... |
| 00:26.23 | uriahheep | so, basically, the only thing that will be missing in the freerunner is a camera :) |
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| 00:26.33 | CVirus | OasisGames: same |
| 00:26.37 | uriahheep | heh |
| 00:26.43 | uriahheep | i spent 40$ on an in-between phone |
| 00:27.03 | CVirus | my Nokia 6600 is no longer vibrating |
| 00:27.05 | mmu_man | beer is |
| 00:27.07 | uriahheep | lol |
| 00:27.11 | mmu_man | just like coffeine |
| 00:27.15 | uriahheep | yep |
| 00:27.24 | OasisGames | Ooh, another quick question while I'm here: Technically, can't you just get a regular USB camera and a mini-USB-female-to-USB-female cable and port some webcam app to the ARMv4 processor? Theoretically? |
| 00:27.27 | uriahheep | however, do you think that they should be illegal? |
| 00:27.46 | uriahheep | OasisGames: yep |
| 00:27.49 | OasisGames | CVirus: Interesting, my LG C2000 won't stop. Even when it's off. |
| 00:28.00 | mmu_man | OasisGames yes, but keep in mind that usb webcam drivers for linux are not really uniform |
| 00:28.02 | uriahheep | OasisGames: OR, you can find a USB phone camera |
| 00:28.05 | uriahheep | or serial |
| 00:28.07 | uriahheep | whatever |
| 00:28.10 | mjr | OasisGames, if the cam will work with 100mA |
| 00:28.10 | CVirus | LOL |
| 00:28.18 | mmu_man | there are as many drivers (actually more, 5 for mine) as there are different webcam |
| 00:28.18 | uriahheep | and hooke it up to the freerunner's hardware yourself :) |
| 00:28.35 | mmu_man | hmm does the Neo have a CF slot ? |
| 00:28.41 | mjr | mmu_man, hell no |
| 00:28.49 | mjr | you know how large those things are? |
| 00:28.52 | OasisGames | Big. |
| 00:28.55 | uriahheep | OasisGames: take the battery out :P |
| 00:29.06 | uriahheep | lol |
| 00:29.16 | uriahheep | mmu_man: it has a microSD i think |
| 00:29.18 | OasisGames | uriahheep: Well, duh, of course, but then I can't use the phone ;) |
| 00:29.21 | mmu_man | ah |
| 00:29.30 | uriahheep | OasisGames: uh, why not? |
| 00:29.35 | OasisGames | Because then it's off. |
| 00:29.36 | OasisGames | Duh. |
| 00:29.38 | uriahheep | oh |
| 00:29.38 | mmu_man | should be possible to stick a CMOS censor on a uSD somehow |
| 00:29.38 | uriahheep | yeah |
| 00:29.41 | uriahheep | but still |
| 00:29.47 | uriahheep | you were complaining about it not turning off.... |
| 00:30.10 | uriahheep | mmu_man: lol :> |
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| 00:30.22 | OasisGames | It's only a temporary solution anyway. Second the battery hits the contacts it vibrates. It's a physical hardware problem, a piece of metal melted over a circuit or something... |
| 00:30.25 | uriahheep | wow, man, wtf is with this xulrunner shit? |
| 00:30.42 | uriahheep | is it really better than the current firefox? |
| 00:30.52 | OasisGames | I still don't even know what xulrunner is. |
| 00:30.59 | uriahheep | heh |
| 00:31.36 | OasisGames | "XULRunner is a Mozilla runtime package that can be used to bootstrap XUL+XPCOM applications that are as rich as Firefox and Thunderbird." That was informative... |
| 00:32.43 | uriahheep | OasisGames: it's what the next firefox will be running off of |
| 00:33.02 | OasisGames | Clearly, otherwise I wouldn't have had to install all these dang packages... |
| 00:33.08 | uriahheep | heh |
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| 00:33.26 | mmu_man | OasisGames it's just firefox outside firefox |
| 00:33.50 | mmu_man | (so it can outgrow itself :p) |
| 00:33.53 | OasisGames | AKA Prism? |
| 00:33.58 | uriahheep | it's better than FF from what i hear though |
| 00:34.10 | OasisGames | It's the same as FF3 only without the FF3. |
| 00:34.15 | uriahheep | erm |
| 00:34.18 | uriahheep | no |
| 00:34.38 | uriahheep | xulrunner has been around and in development for a while |
| 00:34.49 | uriahheep | now that it's ready enough, FF3 will use it |
| 00:34.54 | uriahheep | and this has been planned for a whiile |
| 00:35.04 | mmu_man | we are porting webkit to Haiku to get a native browser that doesn't double the size of the image |
| 00:35.10 | mmu_man | (which is 100MB for now) |
| 00:35.11 | uriahheep | heheh |
| 00:35.17 | uriahheep | how big is webkit? |
| 00:35.33 | mmu_man | don't know actually how big the bins are |
| 00:35.33 | mmu_man | likely less than FF |
| 00:35.35 | mmu_man | I hope |
| 00:35.38 | uriahheep | heh |
| 00:35.40 | uriahheep | probably |
| 00:35.47 | SpeedEvil | I compiled FF from a bb recipie |
| 00:35.52 | uriahheep | just look at a konqueror binary or something |
| 00:35.54 | SpeedEvil | Neither would actually run on the neo |
| 00:36.09 | SpeedEvil | (tehre were two) |
| 00:36.11 | mmu_man | plus our FF port (which AmigaOS fans envy us) is not really finish so not well integrated |
| 00:36.35 | OasisGames | Well, I'm off to go transform viewport outputs, enjoy your various phone-related discussions... |
| 00:36.43 | uriahheep | heh |
| 00:37.06 | mmu_man | hmm qemu can emulate arm now, anyone found a setup close to the neo ? |
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| 00:37.17 | mmu_man | if I want to start playing around |
| 00:37.19 | SpeedEvil | there is one in the wiki |
| 00:37.31 | SpeedEvil | also the mokomakefile |
| 00:37.52 | mmu_man | ah right http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu |
| 00:38.18 | uriahheep | nice |
| 00:38.21 | uriahheep | i might try it out |
| 00:38.25 | uriahheep | <3 kvm |
| 00:38.26 | uriahheep | :) |
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| 00:38.45 | mjr | kvm doesn't really apply for arm, you know |
| 00:39.05 | mmu_man | besides, qemu can display to VNC :) |
| 00:39.31 | uriahheep | hmm, perhaps not :P |
| 00:39.56 | mmu_man | it can |
| 00:40.05 | uriahheep | iwas replying to mjr |
| 00:40.08 | uriahheep | ;) |
| 00:40.11 | mmu_man | http://82.244.111.82/~revol/haiku.php |
| 00:40.34 | uriahheep | /. |
| 00:40.59 | mmu_man | you see it can :) |
| 00:41.09 | uriahheep | yep |
| 00:41.12 | uriahheep | well |
| 00:41.18 | uriahheep | i didn't actually see haiku or anything |
| 00:41.21 | uriahheep | but i believe you |
| 00:41.24 | uriahheep | and i already knew ;) |
| 00:41.30 | uriahheep | hmm, brb |
| 00:43.00 | mmu_man | anyway I must finish my m68k port first :) |
| 00:43.29 | mmu_man | http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_haiku_m68k_loader_010.png |
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| 00:46.42 | uriahheep | mmm |
| 00:46.44 | uriahheep | new everything |
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| 00:49.04 | uriahheep | nope |
| 00:49.16 | uriahheep | firefox is still slow as hell in EXA |
| 00:49.17 | uriahheep | :( |
| 00:52.31 | SpeedEvil | Slowcat is slow. |
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| 00:53.36 | mmu_man | hence the name maybe ? |
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| 00:54.48 | OasisGames | Again, as I asked before and didn't get a response: Does the Matchbox that comes with OpenMoko have a compositor? |
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| 03:23.02 | holycow | hallo |
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| 04:39.10 | linuxxr | dangit im getting impatiant |
| 04:39.39 | linuxxr | i want my freerunner now |
| 04:40.39 | linuxxr | please |
| 04:41.12 | linuxxr | so wassup |
| 04:41.32 | linuxxr | more hardware delays or wat? |
| 04:53.05 | madwoota | i'm guessin we'll find out 'when its done' |
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| 06:03.24 | bmidgley | guys, do recent kernels provide /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode |
| 06:03.50 | bmidgley | the bugzilla ticket seems to be saying it's in svn |
| 06:03.54 | bmidgley | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=876 |
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| 06:28.01 | wurp2 | bmidgley: Yes |
| 06:28.10 | wurp2 | I have it in my 2.6.24 kernel |
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| 07:46.23 | bmidgley | wurp2 thanks... time for a reflash then |
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| 08:11.00 | ScaredyCat | moo |
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| 08:23.16 | TRIsoft | morning |
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| 08:51.12 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 09:21.55 | bmidgle1 | I'm getting "magic bitmask" not found after flashing with latest at http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/ |
| 09:22.23 | bmidgle1 | gets stuck in a loop after mounting root afaict |
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| 09:36.23 | TRIsoft | *singing* I have a GTA02 :-D |
| 09:36.57 | josch | TRIsoft, -_- |
| 09:37.15 | beefsalad | htf |
| 09:37.20 | TRIsoft | Set your clocks how long it takes, until we brick it :D |
| 09:37.39 | josch | took me two hours |
| 09:37.44 | josch | try to beat me |
| 09:37.46 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 09:38.01 | TRIsoft | Guess we take longer, cause it needs charging |
| 09:38.39 | josch | haha - nobody can beat this record |
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| 09:43.15 | *** join/#openmoko ccfly (n=ccfly@89.212.76.77) |
| 09:43.27 | ccfly | hi everyone |
| 09:45.37 | ScaredyCat | i can has gta02 |
| 09:45.44 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 09:45.48 | ScaredyCat | :P |
| 09:46.30 | TRIsoft | ScaredyCat: Sure, i guess in late April ;-) |
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| 09:52.49 | ljp | two hours? too me less than one to "brick" a gta02 |
| 09:53.30 | TRIsoft | ljp: That's because you're experienced in bricking mobile linux devices ;-) |
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| 11:41.50 | ahven | any gprs users online? |
| 11:42.00 | ahven | with Neo |
| 11:42.13 | SpeedEvil | Yes |
| 11:42.27 | SpeedEvil | But I dont' ahve a script at teh moment as I accidentally lost it |
| 11:42.31 | ahven | with "pppd debug nodetach call gprs" I get |
| 11:42.32 | ahven | # pppd debug nodetach call gprs |
| 11:42.32 | ahven | Connect script failed |
| 11:42.32 | ahven | Terminating on signal 2 |
| 11:42.32 | ahven | Modem hangup |
| 11:42.32 | ahven | Connection terminated. |
| 11:42.54 | SpeedEvil | look at how to get a verboxse log drom connect |
| 11:42.56 | SpeedEvil | from |
| 11:43.18 | ahven | where does it log? not under /var/log/ |
| 11:43.31 | SpeedEvil | You've got to pass it a flag |
| 11:43.34 | SpeedEvil | I forget |
| 11:43.37 | ahven | aha :) |
| 11:43.40 | *** part/#openmoko cyrilRomain (n=cyrilRom@AToulouse-157-1-14-39.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:43.49 | ahven | and the flag is? |
| 11:44.00 | SpeedEvil | I forget |
| 11:45.11 | ahven | a flag to pppd? |
| 11:45.28 | SpeedEvil | no - connect is a seperate program |
| 11:45.36 | SpeedEvil | a stupid scripting program |
| 11:50.37 | ahven | hmm http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS doesn't say anything about a 'connect' |
| 11:50.43 | zedstar | what network u trying to connect? |
| 11:51.47 | ahven | Elisa |
| 11:51.53 | SpeedEvil | man pppd |
| 11:51.54 | ahven | bah |
| 11:51.58 | SpeedEvil | look at the 'connect' option |
| 11:52.06 | ahven | EMT, this is my second sim |
| 11:52.11 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 11:52.15 | SpeedEvil | 'chat' is the name of hte program |
| 11:52.26 | ahven | I thought the same |
| 11:52.51 | SpeedEvil | chat -v |
| 11:53.09 | SpeedEvil | will log to syslog |
| 11:53.37 | ahven | #!/bin/sh -e |
| 11:53.38 | ahven | exec chat -v\ |
| 11:53.38 | ahven | .. |
| 11:53.45 | zedstar | i finally got my free t-mobile sim in the post took like a month and sent me 2!!! |
| 11:53.47 | ahven | it is already in that page |
| 11:53.52 | ahven | and in my Neo |
| 11:53.57 | zedstar | so will try and configure that soon |
| 11:54.43 | ahven | aha |
| 11:54.46 | ahven | do not use syslog |
| 11:54.51 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:56.10 | ahven | I can find only wtmp there |
| 11:57.43 | ahven | ERROR AT+CPIN\?\ |
| 11:57.43 | ahven | "+CPIN: READY-AT+CPIN=\"2222\"-OK" AT\ |
| 11:57.55 | ahven | is that referring to the real pin? |
| 11:57.59 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 11:58.03 | ahven | ok |
| 11:58.11 | SpeedEvil | it's sending 2222 |
| 11:58.22 | *** join/#openmoko Psi (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 11:58.27 | SpeedEvil | you need to swap that for the real pin I think |
| 12:00.47 | zedstar | i have working vodafine scripts if it helps but im not using a PIN |
| 12:00.55 | zedstar | vodafone even |
| 12:01.00 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: have you stuck them somewhere? |
| 12:01.22 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: I haven't seen a complete tar.gz or whatgever of all the required files |
| 12:01.29 | zedstar | i shud edit the wiki i guess! |
| 12:02.31 | zedstar | basically tho i found online and edit slightly |
| 12:02.47 | zedstar | didnt use the wiki version i couldnt get that working when i tried |
| 12:02.57 | zedstar | http://zedstar.org/blog/2008/01/11/gprs-connection-with-openmoko/ |
| 12:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko XorA (n=XorA@www.xora.org.uk) |
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| 12:05.09 | zedstar | i will try and do the same with the t-mobile payg one i have |
| 12:05.28 | zedstar | i was gonna collect a few sims but lost the will after it took so long |
| 12:05.38 | SpeedEvil | I put the APN for t-mobile up on the wiki |
| 12:05.59 | zedstar | yeh so the vodafone script shud work with little change i think |
| 12:08.24 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[Away (n=Brescia@adsl-252-185.37-151.net24.it) |
| 12:08.29 | SpeedEvil | The only problems I had with getting it working before was with getting all the timings right, so if it works for voda, I ca't imagine it wouldn't with voda |
| 12:09.07 | zedstar | it somestimes fails to connect but more often than not works |
| 12:10.08 | SpeedEvil | I ended up throwing away chat, and writing something in awk, as chat was annoying me. |
| 12:10.25 | zedstar | it is a pain to debug |
| 12:10.32 | zedstar | those scripts |
| 12:12.12 | zedstar | speedevil btw i found out quite a bit of info about the tcp ressting connections......there was a big debate about this on a industry mailing list |
| 12:12.46 | zedstar | speedevil basically telecomms companies are ****'s was the answer lol |
| 12:13.08 | SpeedEvil | they are doing fake rsts? |
| 12:13.26 | SpeedEvil | Or just NAT flushinf connections that have been up too long |
| 12:13.32 | *** join/#openmoko vallor (n=Rock@pdpc/supporter/monthlygold/vallor) |
| 12:13.48 | zedstar | well it is operator specific but they dont document their practices... 5mins seems to be a time on a couple of them that will reset the tcp session if idle |
| 12:13.57 | zedstar | it is daft as u still stay connected to gprs |
| 12:14.16 | zedstar | so if u develop a PUSH protocol u need to handle this |
| 12:14.26 | zedstar | they can change it and mess with your head anytime |
| 12:14.31 | ahven | yes! |
| 12:14.34 | ahven | connection! |
| 12:14.49 | zedstar | cool ahven |
| 12:14.58 | zedstar | now do a ping and weep at the latency ;) |
| 12:15.08 | ahven | the strange thing is - I didn't do anything special |
| 12:16.56 | ahven | and now it works, replaced -v with -V |
| 12:17.13 | ahven | though it doesn't do anything special than logging :P |
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| 12:22.12 | zedstar | what country is your network ahven? what is your ping time like to say google on your connection? |
| 12:22.59 | ahven | Estonia |
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| 12:23.01 | ahven | just a sec :) |
| 12:23.22 | SpeedEvil | zedstar: uk - up to 2s is worst case - 200ms or so best |
| 12:23.47 | zedstar | is interesting to get a feel for the variance |
| 12:24.11 | zedstar | mine i think is averaging about 700ms i think |
| 12:24.24 | zedstar | but yeh big variance |
| 12:24.27 | SpeedEvil | IIRC 4-500ms was ytyp |
| 12:25.09 | zedstar | several times slower than an average home broadband connection |
| 12:26.37 | ahven | strange |
| 12:26.51 | ahven | the gsm modem device dissapeared after I killed pppd |
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| 12:38.33 | ahven | SpeedEvil: seems that I have to try again until it connects |
| 12:39.25 | ahven | why did they replace the full keyboard anyway in the gui? |
| 12:39.32 | ahven | the terminal app is pretty useless now |
| 12:39.49 | ahven | have to kill the app to end a ping |
| 12:40.05 | *** join/#openmoko fursund (n=dlai@h59ec0f85.c45-01-03.dyn.perspektivbredband.net) |
| 12:41.08 | ccfly | why don't you use ssh ? |
| 12:41.40 | ahven | I do use it, but when no other computer is near? |
| 12:42.10 | ccfly | make yourself a couple of shell scripts |
| 12:42.42 | ccfly | although a full keyboard would be nice if you could choose it |
| 12:42.44 | fursund | anyone figured out how to solve the problem with openmoko-qemu and flash.sh? (qemu: fatal: Trying to execute code outside RAM or ROM at 0x00000000) |
| 12:43.04 | ahven | yeah, the keyboard should be choosable imho |
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| 12:51.11 | ahven | matchbox-panel should display if a ppp0 device exists or not |
| 12:51.31 | ahven | currently I have to hear it from my speakers, the easiest solution |
| 12:51.55 | ahven | should visit the bugzilla later |
| 12:57.11 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-156-78-131.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:59.40 | ccfly | ahven what kind of timins ddid you have to use, to get ppp link up |
| 12:59.46 | ccfly | I'm having a problem with it myself |
| 12:59.58 | ccfly | i can dial pdp session manually |
| 13:00.09 | ccfly | but ppp doesn't "attach to it" |
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| 13:02.30 | ahven | haven't changed it ccfly, should it maybe required for near-always successful connection attempt |
| 13:02.51 | ahven | 1 out 3 or something like that currently |
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| 14:05.56 | cb22 | wow, the illume demo looks really slick |
| 14:08.31 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@79.17.172.108) |
| 14:09.18 | cb22 | just wondering, will freerunner be avalable in the black colour that is shown on the wiki? |
| 14:10.08 | OasisGames | cb22: I hope, I want it in all-black... |
| 14:10.31 | kdean06 | cb22, Do you have a link to the demo? |
| 14:10.47 | cb22 | kdean06: sure, http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/illume-vv-01.avi |
| 14:10.56 | cb22 | OasisGames: same here, it looks quite nice |
| 14:12.56 | kdean06 | Thanks. :) |
| 14:18.15 | *** join/#openmoko MMN_o___7 (n=mmn@barjack.com) |
| 14:20.12 | cb22 | abraxa_: looks like we share the same question :) |
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| 14:50.04 | wurp2 | ahven: See Switching_Keyboards on the wiki |
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| 15:25.30 | ahven | wurp2: thanks :) |
| 15:25.46 | ahven | at the time it was changed, there wasn't such a solution |
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| 15:45.46 | OasisGames | I've asked this three times now and still haven't gotten an answer, but anyway: Does the Matchbox included with OpenMoko have a compositor? The various mockups lead me to believe it would be a required feature, and the inclusion of XRender support in the drivers for the gfx. card would make it entirely possible. |
| 15:46.53 | mickey_away | theoretically yes |
| 15:47.10 | mickey_away | practically there's no way you can use composit on a system that slow |
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| 15:52.41 | cb22 | mickey_away: i don't suppose you have any enlightening knowledge about the all black case design on the wiki front page :) ? |
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| 15:53.53 | mwester | Good Mornin' |
| 15:54.04 | linuxxr | y |
| 15:54.50 | linuxxr | if it wern't black they would show it a diff color |
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| 16:00.08 | OasisGames | mickey_away: Slow? Bull. 400mhz with a graphics card on a 640x480 display is not slow. I can run Compiz on a 1680x1050 display with a GeForce 2 on 1.5ghz, I think this phone can handle simple compositing of alpha mapped windows on a much smaller screen. |
| 16:01.06 | jamewill | OasisGames, hehe |
| 16:01.26 | mwester | There's more to it than CPU speed. |
| 16:01.36 | OasisGames | There's nothing to it about CPU speed. |
| 16:01.41 | SpeedEvil | 400MHz remote X over 100mbit ethernet. |
| 16:01.47 | SpeedEvil | Is a more accurate portrayal. |
| 16:01.53 | SpeedEvil | (for GTA02 |
| 16:02.25 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 16:03.09 | SpeedEvil | Or X over 802.11G |
| 16:03.53 | OasisGames | This sounds like a challenge. |
| 16:04.13 | CoreDump | X over 802.11G is doable w/ compression (vnc & friends) |
| 16:04.41 | SpeedEvil | I'm just saying that the bus to the graphics card is 7M/s |
| 16:04.44 | OasisGames | Um, with xhost I can get a connection over 802.11G to my server and easily fish out Firefox windows with it... |
| 16:05.13 | XorA|gone | GTA02 isnt a mega beast or anything, its a good generation behind HTC mobiles, in hardware, but a generation ahead in software |
| 16:05.30 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak__ (n=stefreak@frnk-4d014d6b.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 16:05.41 | SpeedEvil | However, being a generation ahead, the software can't actually do much yet. |
| 16:05.51 | SpeedEvil | It needs to mature some :) |
| 16:05.57 | Blastur | XorA|gone: you mean, it will be a generation ahead,..at some point :) |
| 16:06.20 | XorA|gone | Blastur: its buzzword compliant now :-D |
| 16:06.30 | Blastur | ^^ |
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| 16:08.15 | OasisGames | 400mhz ARMv4, same as my PDA, but my PDA doesn't have a graphics accelerator or 128mb of fully operable RAM. |
| 16:08.26 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 16:09.24 | OasisGames | And your arguments about it being like remote X over 802.11g are either way off, or just not valid, because if it's anywhere near what I'm experiencing right now with 802.11g on a full 1280x800 display running, of all things, Firefox, it's gonna be the best dang experience I'll have ever had on a phone. |
| 16:10.58 | SpeedEvil | OasisGames: it's not really as good as X - as the graphics card supports a _lot_ fewer operations than proper X |
| 16:11.17 | SpeedEvil | It's somewhere between X and vnc |
| 16:12.08 | SpeedEvil | The graphics card - for exampe supports really fast blitting of arbitrary rectangles, but if anything is done that involves alpha, it's got to be repainted from the host |
| 16:12.11 | SpeedEvil | At 7M/second |
| 16:12.59 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@dsbg-4db7ba28.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 16:13.25 | OasisGames | Is this driver issues that have yet to be resolved, or is because of how it's wired? Or does the chip just not have that kind of functionality? |
| 16:13.37 | SpeedEvil | It's fundamental |
| 16:13.52 | SpeedEvil | The chip can basically barely do 640*480 |
| 16:14.13 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 16:14.15 | SpeedEvil | So the limitations of it are not really a big problem at its normal resolution of 320*240 |
| 16:14.18 | SpeedEvil | (or so) |
| 16:14.43 | cb22 | just out of interest, how does the iphone handle its effects? |
| 16:15.02 | SpeedEvil | But with a full VGA screen, it's got very little off-screen memory available, and any repaints that the accellerator can't handle are only 1/4 the amount of data |
| 16:15.11 | SpeedEvil | But with a full VGA screen, it's got very little off-screen memory available, and any repaints that the accellerator can't handle are 4* the amount of data |
| 16:15.18 | pH5 | cb22: PowerVR MBX in the CPU |
| 16:15.31 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@90-227-34-143-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 16:15.47 | cb22 | pH5: i know about the hardware part, i was referring to the software bits |
| 16:16.06 | pH5 | cb22: as the chip is integrated it just doesn't have the bandwidth issues |
| 16:16.17 | cb22 | ah, rght |
| 16:16.23 | morricone | So what advantages do we really have with the glamo in comparsion with GTA01? |
| 16:16.29 | SpeedEvil | Few. |
| 16:16.48 | SpeedEvil | It can do simple 2D accel stuff quite well. |
| 16:16.53 | SpeedEvil | So bit blits are faster. |
| 16:17.37 | XorA|gone | We dont eat ram bandwidth just updating the screen with a static image |
| 16:17.37 | morricone | i just hope, that at least DMA will be working |
| 16:17.42 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 16:17.49 | SpeedEvil | 7M and no DMA will suck badly. |
| 16:17.49 | XorA|gone | gta01 speand a lot of ram bandwidth displaying nothing |
| 16:17.55 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 16:18.12 | SpeedEvil | XorA|gone: true - But 'only' 18M/s |
| 16:18.14 | cb22 | 7M? |
| 16:18.26 | SpeedEvil | cbrake_away: a figure raster was throwing around yesterday |
| 16:18.30 | SpeedEvil | cb22: |
| 16:18.43 | XorA|gone | SpeedEvil: means we can clock that ram bus down, save power (well could if it was a decent CPU :-) |
| 16:19.06 | SpeedEvil | XorA|gone: of course. |
| 16:19.11 | cb22 | SpeedEvil: what's it in? or is it just 7 million? |
| 16:19.34 | SpeedEvil | cbrake_away: 7Mbytes/second bandwidth on the bus to the glamo as I understand it. |
| 16:21.22 | SpeedEvil | Oh yuk |
| 16:21.31 | SpeedEvil | Rereading rasters comments. |
| 16:22.01 | SpeedEvil | It seems that if DMA mode can be done - it's probable that you can't actually use other RAM while the DMA is proceeding |
| 16:23.08 | mjr | IIRC raster at some point said the glamo could do alpha blends but in only limited formats, wasit 24+24->16 |
| 16:23.15 | OasisGames | Bah, back to the dependable world of x86 processors and Intel graphics chipsets that support EXT_texture_from_pixmap... OpenMoko will look rather bland on the Neo if it doesn't have any ARGB visual support... |
| 16:24.41 | morricone | i just hope, that GTA03 will sort all those things out, because they will have more time to check the requirements of the chips etc. |
| 16:25.10 | SpeedEvil | Or they'll just use 500Mhz CPU chip and a 240*320 display, and the problems go away :/ |
| 16:26.19 | mjr | pining after compositing is just, well, rather idiotic at this point |
| 16:26.39 | cb22 | is there any other way to do nice transparencies and the like? |
| 16:26.49 | OasisGames | That doesn't make the problems go away, it just works around them... I'd like to see a better graphics chipset and actual plans for OpenGL support in a future model, but I'm still going to buy the GTA02 when it's released... |
| 16:26.58 | mjr | you know, that's something you can do after you have a solid core system if you really want to |
| 16:27.09 | XorA|gone | SpeedEvil: Im still hoping for an mx33 :-) |
| 16:27.20 | *** join/#openmoko suuuper (n=suuuper@ppp-92-180.32-151.iol.it) |
| 16:27.41 | *** join/#openmoko elation (i=elation@gateway/tor/x-df71093d88a46bc0) |
| 16:28.17 | Blastur | anyone know what the deal with this 'pricing plan' is? i read in the latest community update that the price for Freerunner has not been set yet, but afaik, theyve announced it at $450 from the start? they gonna change that now? |
| 16:28.49 | Aria | That was so a guess. |
| 16:29.08 | PBeck | Blastur: cheaper would be great ;) |
| 16:29.25 | mwester | Frankly, I just don't get the desire for the graphics stuff. I have no intention of playing Doom 3 on my phone; nor do I need compiz-style windows that "wiggle"... I need smooth scrolling and quick window-to-window changes, and I'm perfectly happy giving up some color depth, or snazzy effects. |
| 16:29.36 | ccfly | +1 |
| 16:29.42 | cb22 | -1 |
| 16:29.43 | mjr | mwester, indeed |
| 16:29.44 | PBeck | +1 too :) |
| 16:29.45 | Aria | Hey, mjr. Always here. |
| 16:29.51 | respawn | +-0 |
| 16:29.55 | Blastur | i agree mwester! |
| 16:30.00 | XorA|gone | mwester: I note no requirement to work as a phone :-D |
| 16:30.01 | PBeck | hehe :) |
| 16:30.07 | morricone | yes I agree, too. but i think battery life could be improved |
| 16:30.16 | mwester | XorA|gone: ;) |
| 16:30.19 | mjr | oh, I do like some video playing as well |
| 16:30.33 | CoreDump | mjr: +1 |
| 16:30.46 | mwester | Good audio would be higher on my list than video playing... |
| 16:30.51 | *** join/#openmoko tg_ (n=tg@x-net.hu) |
| 16:30.59 | PBeck | we need a multimedia machine :) |
| 16:31.07 | SpeedEvil | They annouced at $450 at the start. |
| 16:31.07 | OasisGames | Bah, I'm a Compiz dev, my only point in asking was that I'd love to see the same stuff I work with every day on my phone. |
| 16:31.08 | morricone | i even don't want transparency it should just be as fast as possible |
| 16:31.11 | jamewill | mwester, +1 |
| 16:31.13 | mjr | but happily, gta01 already does decent enough video (when recoded for it), and the glamo should be okay for that anyway |
| 16:31.21 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@dsbg-4db7ba28.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 16:31.25 | CoreDump | w/ a beautiful screen as in the neo, video playback is a must |
| 16:31.37 | SpeedEvil | I've said that I doubt that $450 is a realistic consumer price point. |
| 16:31.42 | Aria | And hardware alpha compositing would be nice for webkit. |
| 16:31.57 | mjr | yeah $450 is a geek price point :I |
| 16:32.01 | SpeedEvil | Especially with a 9(?) month delay in the middle |
| 16:32.13 | PBeck | mwester: i think wlan was the better decision, for one speaker ;) |
| 16:32.17 | SpeedEvil | When was it first supposed to hit? |
| 16:32.28 | SpeedEvil | Last august? |
| 16:32.29 | OasisGames | RGBA support'd be nice for all the popup dialogs I keep seeing in the mockups. |
| 16:32.30 | Aria | Yeah |
| 16:32.31 | Blastur | september 2007 |
| 16:32.33 | jamewill | i think they should make more expensive and use the diff to hire more devs! |
| 16:32.46 | Aria | More devs makes it later! |
| 16:32.46 | Blastur | what do you think the price will be, SpeedEvil? |
| 16:32.55 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: what is your opinion as a realistic price? |
| 16:33.00 | OasisGames | Adding WiFi was the selling point for me... |
| 16:33.00 | jamewill | Aria, heh |
| 16:33.01 | ccfly | if you make it more expensive you're competing with ARM11 phones |
| 16:33.05 | *** join/#openmoko affen (n=kala@194.126.113.157) |
| 16:33.07 | SpeedEvil | That's a hard question. |
| 16:33.27 | PBeck | 300 - 350 Dollar would be a good price i think |
| 16:33.28 | SpeedEvil | I think $350ish |
| 16:33.54 | Aria | Very. |
| 16:33.58 | anrp | arm1136-ej D: |
| 16:34.14 | SpeedEvil | Go and look at prices of 'sim free' phones with similar 'sticker' performances. |
| 16:34.14 | anrp | a lower price would be nice |
| 16:34.22 | anrp | but there isn't really much room in the low quantity production |
| 16:34.27 | anrp | i bet |
| 16:34.54 | OasisGames | Needs more advertising. |
| 16:34.57 | PBeck | we musst wait :) |
| 16:35.02 | SpeedEvil | I dunno. I can make a moko-clone (with admittedly less RAM and ROM) for about $500 in ones. |
| 16:35.16 | SpeedEvil | (8 bit screen only) |
| 16:35.24 | SpeedEvil | And larger case. |
| 16:35.27 | OasisGames | Anyway, is OpenMoko going to be at the GSoC this year? I'm trying to nudge the other C-F guys into going... |
| 16:35.39 | SpeedEvil | I don't have a good feel for what GTA01 will cost. |
| 16:35.50 | SpeedEvil | I don't have a good feel for what GTA01 did cost in BOM terms. |
| 16:36.15 | spydon | BOM? :P |
| 16:36.20 | SpeedEvil | Bill Of Materials |
| 16:36.26 | spydon | ah |
| 16:36.33 | SpeedEvil | How much all the bits cost before assembly |
| 16:36.55 | PBeck | and important => what cost the assembly ... |
| 16:37.08 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 16:37.13 | PBeck | when the process is not very good, thats a expensive point |
| 16:37.15 | jamewill | OasisGames, michael@openmoko.com is google summer of code guy this year i think......... (Michael Shiloh) |
| 16:37.36 | SpeedEvil | PBeck: when you're not doing tens of thousands, yes. |
| 16:38.14 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: i think that would be the target |
| 16:38.37 | jamewill | they said they were going to do 10 times as many 02 as 01 to start with......how many 01 did they do |
| 16:38.59 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: when the openmoko software is ready => the end consumer market is big ;) |
| 16:39.32 | SpeedEvil | jamewill: about 2-5K |
| 16:39.35 | jamewill | PBeck, thats gta03 you are talking about.... fast graphics and 3g |
| 16:40.05 | morricone | SpeedEvil, so you think they sold it under or over BOM cost? |
| 16:40.07 | PBeck | jamewill: i dont know |
| 16:40.39 | SpeedEvil | morricone: I _think_ well above. |
| 16:40.43 | PBeck | jamewill: why should openmoko inc. not sell the freerunner, when the hardware is good and the software ready |
| 16:40.48 | Aria | I'd hope so. |
| 16:41.00 | Aria | As a guess, I'd suspect the raw BOM is $160. |
| 16:41.04 | SpeedEvil | morricone: however, probably not much if any over total assembly costs. |
| 16:41.14 | jamewill | PBeck, many will buy gta2 - incl me |
| 16:41.28 | jamewill | PBeck, but TRUE mass market needs a lot more |
| 16:41.35 | PBeck | jamewill: me too of course ;) |
| 16:41.40 | SpeedEvil | For example, a similar board - 6 layer 100*50mm 1mm thick costs about $4. |
| 16:41.43 | ccfly | it's niche markets for a time being I guess |
| 16:41.46 | SpeedEvil | (in 1K) |
| 16:41.54 | PBeck | jamewill: what needs the market? |
| 16:42.06 | SpeedEvil | But ohter bits are harder to price. |
| 16:42.59 | PBeck | jamewill: i think the gta02 hardware is simliar to the iphone hardware (a few thinks cpu, camera and so on are lacking) but i think the hardware is not so bad) |
| 16:43.46 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@195.250.220.134) |
| 16:44.15 | PBeck | jamewill: when they have the possibility to earning money with the hardware, why not :) |
| 16:44.27 | *** join/#openmoko Weteor (n=Weteor@i59F63103.versanet.de) |
| 16:47.38 | PBeck | jamewill: or you think thats wrong? :) |
| 16:47.42 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@195.250.220.134) |
| 16:48.11 | PBeck | jamewill: i hope that they can sell the freerunner, but i have no information ;) |
| 16:49.05 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
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| 17:02.03 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-156-78-131.range86-156.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 17:13.19 | *** join/#openmoko peter_harrison (n=peter@203-109-246-29.static.bliink.ihug.co.nz) |
| 17:14.24 | peter_harrison | Hi everyone, I'm trying to connect to my GSM provider with GPRS, but I'm having a little trouble. Anyone tried this before |
| 17:20.27 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@f053153045.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:29.58 | *** join/#openmoko wiml (n=wiml@underhill.hhhh.org) |
| 17:30.05 | elation | PBeck: What CPU Does the iphone got? |
| 17:31.11 | PBeck | elation: i think a 600 mhz cpu in this direction |
| 17:31.40 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak (n=stefreak@frnk-4d014d6b.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 17:33.25 | *** join/#openmoko zilux (n=user@bdy93-1-82-67-223-79.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:35.03 | ccfly | http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/01/iphone-processor-found-620mhz-arm/ |
| 17:35.27 | PBeck | ccfly: ah thanks super :) |
| 17:36.05 | ccfly | frankly i really don't need that much processing power in my phone |
| 17:36.15 | cb22 | i read somewhere that it is closer to 400... |
| 17:36.20 | ccfly | i would rather have better battery life |
| 17:37.45 | elation | cb22: The speed it self, depends on what type of CPU it is. |
| 17:42.12 | ccfly | peter_harrison: tried and failed |
| 17:42.16 | *** join/#openmoko jdav_gone (n=james@d75-157-13-250.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 17:42.33 | peter_harrison | I have got as far as connecting and getting an IP address |
| 17:42.34 | ccfly | I can dial and establish connection to mobile service provider |
| 17:42.39 | ccfly | but PPP doesn't work |
| 17:42.41 | ccfly | yet |
| 17:42.48 | peter_harrison | I can get PP up. |
| 17:42.54 | ccfly | then you get farther than I did |
| 17:43.06 | ScaredyCat | has anyone been doing any wotk with the bt ui ? |
| 17:43.07 | ccfly | so what doesn't work ? |
| 17:43.25 | peter_harrison | From what I can see there is one APN, but two gateways |
| 17:43.47 | peter_harrison | The default gateway gets an IP, and you can use DNS, but thats about it. |
| 17:44.18 | peter_harrison | The other gateway leads you to a address space that you can actually connect to stuff on. |
| 17:44.37 | peter_harrison | I have used the same simcard in another phone to connect and verify. |
| 17:44.45 | SpeedEvil | So why not use the other APN? |
| 17:45.07 | peter_harrison | Its just one APN - the same for both. Only the gateway is different. |
| 17:45.27 | SpeedEvil | route add default gw foo |
| 17:45.29 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 17:46.09 | *** join/#openmoko moko-bunny (n=reik@CPE-76-178-148-218.natnow.res.rr.com) |
| 17:46.09 | peter_harrison | The problem is the IP address I get in negociation. |
| 17:46.32 | peter_harrison | Because its in the 10.xx.xx range it gets filtered. |
| 17:46.43 | peter_harrison | The other gateway is 172.xxx.xxx |
| 17:47.25 | peter_harrison | So, even though I configure my side okay the packeds don't get through. |
| 17:48.04 | SpeedEvil | you can configure pppd |
| 17:48.08 | SpeedEvil | to require IP |
| 17:48.12 | SpeedEvil | s in certain ranges |
| 17:48.17 | SpeedEvil | look at man pppd |
| 17:48.22 | peter_harrison | Yes, I'm just reading the man now. |
| 17:49.02 | peter_harrison | looks like you can specify the endpoint. |
| 17:52.09 | zilux | I currently start with the debug board on the neo |
| 17:52.10 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AF951.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:52.12 | mickey_away | cb22: the black case on the front page is the new case |
| 17:52.29 | zilux | but I have some difficulties to get the console running |
| 17:53.33 | zilux | from minicom on /dev/ttyUSB1: |
| 17:53.35 | cb22 | mickey_away: sweet :) can i quote you on that? |
| 17:53.36 | zilux | gta01-pm-gsm gta01-pm-gsm.0: powering up GSM, thus disconnecting serial console |
| 17:53.43 | mickey_away | cb22: sure |
| 17:54.02 | zilux | how can the console be restarted? |
| 17:54.16 | zilux | echo "0" > /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-bt.0/power_on |
| 17:54.26 | zilux | and what more? |
| 17:54.29 | SpeedEvil | mickey_away: Great! That brings up new UI possibilities! A black case, with black buttons, on a black background! |
| 17:54.39 | SpeedEvil | Save lots on battery power! |
| 17:56.02 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@p54BE8D47.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:56.22 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:56.29 | zilux | if I run getty by hand from ssh, the password is asked from ssh... |
| 17:57.11 | SpeedEvil | just hit enter |
| 17:57.14 | *** join/#openmoko Deknos (n=deknos@lak-117-34.wohnheime.ruhr-uni-bochum.de) |
| 17:57.35 | *** join/#openmoko Weteor_ (n=Weteor@i59F61EC2.versanet.de) |
| 17:59.46 | *** join/#openmoko chris^^ (n=kraetzi@p548AF951.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:59.54 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@63.83.135.35) |
| 18:00.59 | *** join/#openmoko Quadduc (n=stian@149-180-195.oke2-bras2.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 18:04.23 | zilux | sorry, I continue a little bit :-) |
| 18:04.38 | zilux | currently the console does not respond at all |
| 18:04.53 | zilux | last line displayed: |
| 18:04.55 | zilux | gta01-pm-gsm gta01-pm-gsm.0: powering up GSM, thus disconnecting serial console |
| 18:05.45 | zilux | I simply try this from ssh |
| 18:05.47 | zilux | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:05.53 | zilux | is it wrong? |
| 18:06.11 | SpeedEvil | how are you connecting to this console? |
| 18:06.19 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@pD9E0A465.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:06.20 | zilux | via debug board |
| 18:06.35 | SpeedEvil | there is some magic I think to disabling the GSM modem |
| 18:06.38 | SpeedEvil | have you done that? |
| 18:06.48 | zilux | only the power_on at 0 |
| 18:06.50 | *** join/#openmoko ScarEye (n=scareye@12.27.87.66) |
| 18:07.12 | SpeedEvil | I don't know the proper way to do it - but the debug and gsm serial share. |
| 18:07.26 | SpeedEvil | you've killed gsmd I suppose? |
| 18:08.32 | ScaredyCat | yeah, you'll need to shutdown gsmd |
| 18:08.35 | SpeedEvil | however, reading all on the debug board on the wiki may be of use |
| 18:09.19 | zilux | gsmd has been nuked. no effect yet |
| 18:09.45 | ScaredyCat | did you stop it properly? |
| 18:09.53 | ScaredyCat | /ect/init./gsmd stop |
| 18:10.00 | zilux | ah ok. |
| 18:10.18 | ScaredyCat | you'll need to power up the gesm after that too... |
| 18:10.27 | ScaredyCat | then you should be able to connect ok. |
| 18:11.00 | ScaredyCat | echo 1 > /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/power_on |
| 18:11.03 | ScaredyCat | to power up |
| 18:11.15 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@vpnf067.ugent.be) |
| 18:11.44 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm2 (n=Mathias@d54C597B6.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:12.15 | zilux | ok, thanks. I have now a verbose output on the console (pcf50606_irq messages) |
| 18:13.30 | zilux | so I come back to the getty question sorry |
| 18:14.29 | zilux | is that correct for you: |
| 18:14.31 | zilux | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:17.06 | ScaredyCat | I use minicom :) |
| 18:18.00 | zilux | I use too |
| 18:21.07 | zilux | whith this: |
| 18:21.10 | zilux | nohup /sbin/getty 115200 /dev/ttySAC0 |
| 18:21.23 | zilux | the password is displayed on the ssh session... |
| 18:21.51 | zilux | and I would like to be able to stop ssh from the console. |
| 18:21.56 | zilux | so no go |
| 18:22.02 | zilux | with: |
| 18:22.05 | zilux | nohup /sbin/getty 115200 /dev/ttySAC0& |
| 18:22.19 | zilux | no password is displayed :/ |
| 18:23.47 | zilux | by password displayed, I mean the password input field, sorry. |
| 18:24.23 | *** join/#openmoko astro76 (n=jtaji@unaffiliated/astro76) |
| 18:24.34 | *** join/#openmoko stefreak_ (n=stefreak@frnk-4d015724.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:26.30 | spydon | long time since community update :( |
| 18:37.28 | *** join/#openmoko jamewill (n=jamewill@79-75-134-241.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:37.47 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AF951.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 18:38.29 | CVirus | spydon: yeah |
| 18:39.03 | CVirus | I think it's about time that we get an official release date |
| 18:40.02 | spydon | CVirus, Yeah that too |
| 18:40.11 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 18:40.52 | spydon | CVirus, I can understand that they don't know if they will find more hardware bugs but still, it several months late :( |
| 18:41.42 | CVirus | FIC shall hire more developers to speedup the process |
| 18:42.19 | CVirus | coffee break |
| 18:42.47 | *** join/#openmoko kresp0 (n=Chebe1u@77.150.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 18:43.04 | ScaredyCat | wurp2: ping |
| 18:44.46 | Aria | More developers = later. |
| 18:44.54 | Aria | Can't believe I've said that twice today. |
| 18:45.03 | spydon | yeah probably, in all case if they come in this late |
| 18:47.25 | cb22 | just wondering, does anyone here know of a way to measure voltage with a serial port? like a serial port voltmeter |
| 18:48.02 | anrp | a micro, a breadboard, and a bit of code? |
| 18:48.06 | anrp | or maybe something like http://www.bitscope.com/ |
| 18:48.29 | anrp | also if you're super cheap sometimes you can use the audio in |
| 18:49.03 | cb22 | hmm, i want to use it for measure the voltage of a 12v sla, so i know its charge status |
| 18:49.17 | cb22 | how do you mean i could use audio in? |
| 18:49.23 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@158.195.170.199) |
| 18:49.34 | anrp | mm well audio in is just a analog to digital converter |
| 18:49.37 | anrp | *an |
| 18:49.44 | anrp | but you have to be careful to not overload it |
| 18:50.12 | anrp | i've never used it that way, though |
| 18:50.18 | SpeedEvil | cbrake_away: serail port voltmeters are not that expensive |
| 18:51.35 | *** part/#openmoko OasisGames (n=klange@cpe-76-189-178-118.neo.res.rr.com) |
| 18:51.36 | SpeedEvil | cb22: |
| 18:51.38 | SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DMM-Auto-Range-Multimeter-PC-Interface-Data-Logging_W0QQitemZ250220696370QQihZ015QQcategoryZ58277QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 18:52.40 | anrp | huh, amazing D: |
| 18:52.53 | cb22 | SpeedEvil: perfect, thanks :) |
| 18:53.24 | cb22 | i forgot to check out ebay |
| 18:54.15 | SpeedEvil | It can also be useful to search for stuff to buy elsewhere. |
| 18:55.46 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@dsbg-4db7ba28.pool.einsundeins.de) |
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| 18:59.01 | spydon | http://bcheck.scanit.be/bcheck/index.php |
| 18:59.19 | spydon | hehe browser security test :P |
| 19:01.41 | cb22 | no issues :) now for ie6... |
| 19:02.03 | spydon | ^^ |
| 19:03.11 | zash | lol |
| 19:03.15 | zash | compiz died |
| 19:03.51 | cb22 | yep, ie got owned |
| 19:04.01 | spydon | hehe :P |
| 19:04.12 | spydon | my compiz did fine zash :P |
| 19:04.15 | zash | Congratulations! The test has found no vulnerabilities in your browser! |
| 19:04.18 | zash | yay |
| 19:04.23 | spydon | which browser? :P |
| 19:04.35 | zash | ff2 |
| 19:04.58 | zash | 2.0.0.12 |
| 19:05.03 | spydon | same here :P |
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| 19:07.18 | zash | hm |
| 19:07.36 | zash | probably bug in focus-change-animation |
| 19:08.50 | spydon | ah |
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| 19:20.42 | zash | opera did well to |
| 19:21.36 | CVirus | and konqueror |
| 19:23.11 | uriahheep | :( |
| 19:23.21 | uriahheep | i forgot my bios password |
| 19:24.52 | CVirus | remove the BIOS battery and re-insert it again |
| 19:25.04 | uriahheep | laptop |
| 19:25.08 | uriahheep | :( |
| 19:25.10 | CVirus | ouch |
| 19:25.14 | uriahheep | indeed :( |
| 19:25.20 | uriahheep | i shouldn't have put a password on there... |
| 19:25.28 | uriahheep | or i should have written it down somewhere.... |
| 19:27.14 | CVirus | there must be someway ... google it |
| 19:27.17 | Vegar | uriahheep: there's a trick you can do |
| 19:27.22 | Vegar | with assembly |
| 19:27.25 | uriahheep | what |
| 19:27.27 | Vegar | I'll see if I can find it |
| 19:27.32 | anrp | does it involve a heavy blunt object |
| 19:27.36 | uriahheep | lol |
| 19:28.44 | uriahheep | Vegar: is it something on the lines of cmospwd? |
| 19:29.56 | Vegar | it breaks the CMOS CRC checksum, which resets the cmos |
| 19:29.57 | Vegar | IIRC |
| 19:30.16 | uriahheep | heheh |
| 19:30.18 | anrp | oh, wait |
| 19:30.34 | anrp | if its in the cmos, and it runs linux |
| 19:30.41 | anrp | you can reset it through /dev/nvram |
| 19:30.51 | anrp | ie dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/nvram, i think |
| 19:31.44 | uriahheep | anrp: or, i could maybe dd if=/dev/nvram of=myfile.txt |
| 19:31.45 | uriahheep | :P |
| 19:31.58 | anrp | well saving it isn't a bad idea |
| 19:31.59 | uriahheep | but umm... no |
| 19:32.08 | anrp | of course if it can't recover from the corruption then its really fucked ~_~ |
| 19:32.10 | Vegar | mov al,0; mov dx, 60; out dx,al; inc dx; out dx, al; |
| 19:32.11 | Vegar | there |
| 19:32.13 | uriahheep | /dev/nvram doesn't exist :P |
| 19:32.17 | anrp | modprobe nvram |
| 19:32.18 | Vegar | do that |
| 19:32.33 | uriahheep | anrp: ah... |
| 19:32.38 | Vegar | to quote: "that forces (if in non-protected mode) your BIOS settings to fail CRC check, so you can "override" the BIOS password" |
| 19:33.00 | anrp | actually, save it first |
| 19:33.04 | anrp | and check the size |
| 19:33.14 | anrp | if its under a k or so, then its just the settings |
| 19:33.26 | anrp | but if its like 1mb, then its the whole bios, and you've got to be really careful ~_~ |
| 19:33.53 | uriahheep | hmm... |
| 19:33.57 | anrp | i suspect but i'm not sure that it should just be the settings |
| 19:34.29 | uriahheep | Vegar: link? :P |
| 19:34.40 | Vegar | uriahheep: it's from my chat log |
| 19:34.47 | uriahheep | hrm... |
| 19:35.06 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:35.26 | Vegar | http://www.tech-faq.com/reset-bios-password.shtml |
| 19:35.33 | Vegar | uriahheep: there are some backdoor passwords you can try |
| 19:36.33 | uriahheep | yeah |
| 19:36.34 | uriahheep | thanks |
| 19:36.39 | uriahheep | anything for acer? |
| 19:37.31 | Vegar | http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/CmosPwd <-- says it works with acer |
| 19:37.32 | anrp | mm if its really simple (doubt it but hey), cat /dev/nvram | strings |
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| 19:40.58 | uriahheep | Vegar: yeah, but read what it says about laptops ;) |
| 19:41.07 | uriahheep | Vegar: besides, i tried it and it gave me a segfault :) |
| 19:41.19 | Vegar | heh |
| 19:41.32 | Vegar | you could open your laptop and remove the cmos battery |
| 19:41.36 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03werner * r4179 10/developers/werner/neocon/neocon.c: |
| 19:41.36 | CIA-16 | openmoko: neocon.c (main, bps_to_speed): the "-b bps" option was broken because we didn't |
| 19:41.36 | CIA-16 | openmoko: translate the data rate to a speed_t value. Now we do. |
| 19:42.58 | uriahheep | how can i obtain bios information from inside linux? |
| 19:43.05 | uriahheep | like... is there anything in /proc or something? |
| 19:48.59 | Vegar | there are some nodes in /sys/class/dmi/id/ |
| 19:51.18 | uriahheep | thanks |
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| 20:00.25 | spydon | gosh Obama is really nice! |
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| 20:50.04 | wurp2 | ScaredyCat: pong, finally |
| 20:51.48 | *** join/#openmoko Cthobs (n=cerebus@fl-76-2-102-239.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 20:51.50 | cesarb | uriahheep: even laptops have a "BIOS battery" |
| 20:52.03 | *** join/#openmoko Sonicadvance (n=Sonic@67.61.15.39) |
| 20:52.49 | cesarb | uriahheep: which is in fact the RTC battery which keeps time while the main battery is not connected, and also usually keeps the BIOS settings (historically both were in the same RTC chip on x86 PC machines) |
| 20:55.18 | uriahheep | hmmm |
| 20:55.34 | uriahheep | cesarb: where is it usually placed on the mobo? |
| 20:55.55 | SpeedEvil | cesarb: actually not typiocally. |
| 20:56.18 | cesarb | uriahheep: there's no usual location, check the laptop's service manual (the Dell I use IIRC has it on the memory compartment, stashed hidden in a corner) |
| 20:56.33 | SpeedEvil | cesarb: most laptops 'nowdays' - since a decade or so - back up the password to flash |
| 20:56.35 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M873b.m.pppool.de) |
| 20:56.38 | SpeedEvil | IMO |
| 20:57.12 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
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| 20:58.23 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: well, I'm not much of a laptop user myself, only using one at work currently |
| 20:59.40 | cesarb | uriahheep: if the password is on flash, doing CRC tricks with the NVRAM won't erase it too. If removing the battery doesn't work, breaking the NVRAM CRC shouldn't work too. |
| 20:59.53 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03werner * r4180 10/developers/werner/ahrt/host/usbtmc/README: Fixed a few silly typos. |
| 21:00.21 | SpeedEvil | If you can actually touch the NVRAM |
| 21:00.42 | SpeedEvil | Some laptops use as I understnad it an embedded controller in which the password is stored. |
| 21:00.47 | SpeedEvil | That makes it much harder. |
| 21:01.16 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=federico@moinmoin/developer/federico) |
| 21:06.56 | *** join/#openmoko apt (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 21:06.56 | *** topic/#openmoko is Welcome to the OpenMoko support and discussion channel! | http://openmoko.org/ | New version is the FreeRunner (with WiFi...) maybe due April | Official status: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates |
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| 21:12.36 | Cthobs | Can someone explain the most likely reason for seeing 'Error, TMPDIR has changed ABI (0 to 1)' |
| 21:15.20 | *** join/#openmoko Daveman (n=dave@pool-141-153-244-48.mad.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:15.49 | mmontour | Cthobs: Upstream change, requiring you to rebuild everything from scratch. |
| 21:16.00 | Cthobs | make clobber and all? |
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| 21:16.44 | mmontour | I just removed my "build/tmp" dir, but "make clobber" is probably similar |
| 21:17.44 | Cthobs | ok, thanks |
| 21:17.50 | *** join/#openmoko Genesis (n=genesis@dev.aimao.org) |
| 21:17.55 | Genesis | yop |
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| 21:30.46 | Genesis | bonne nuit |
| 21:31.37 | BlueRaid | morgen ;-) |
| 21:31.58 | Genesis | danke |
| 21:32.06 | BlueRaid | bitte |
| 21:32.10 | BlueRaid | ;-) |
| 21:32.17 | Genesis | :} |
| 21:35.18 | uriahheep | hrm... |
| 21:35.23 | uriahheep | sorry about the delayed response |
| 21:35.29 | uriahheep | so, basically, i'm fucked. :P |
| 21:35.33 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03werner * r4181 10/developers/werner/ahrt/host/usbtmc/ (README usbtmc.c): |
| 21:35.33 | CIA-16 | openmoko: README: described multiple trigger bug (?) and work-around |
| 21:35.33 | CIA-16 | openmoko: README: corrected description of -r (it only repeats the last command, not the |
| 21:35.33 | CIA-16 | openmoko: entire sequence) |
| 21:35.33 | CIA-16 | openmoko: usbtmc.c (main): new option -e to repeat the last command indefinitely |
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| 22:39.32 | ScaredyCat | wurp2: tis ok, I found out who you really are another way >:) |
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| 22:42.09 | Stephmw_mobile | what's the most appropriate way for synching two embedded devices? I'm concerned that rsync could hose the target machine... |
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| 22:44.30 | Aria | two-way synch? |
| 22:44.47 | Aria | rsync is one-way, "sync" only in that it's making one like the other without transferring everything |
| 22:47.21 | thomasg | rsync is unidirectinal, a example for bidirectonal (two-way) would be unison |
| 22:47.44 | Stephmw_mobile | in this case I'm only looking for unidirectional |
| 22:47.45 | Aria | Exactly. |
| 22:47.50 | Aria | Or SyncML, though ew. |
| 22:48.03 | Robot101 | conduit is a more general syncing framework |
| 22:48.18 | Robot101 | unison operates specifically on files, syncml operates on vcards/ical entries/notes |
| 22:48.32 | thomasg | well, rsync does a perfect job for unidirectional, but I doubt that this is what on embedded devices (phones) should be used |
| 22:48.39 | Aria | Indeed. |
| 22:48.43 | Aria | .oO(I'd want two-way on a phone) |
| 22:49.04 | Stephmw_mobile | it's a one-off ;-) |
| 22:49.34 | Stephmw_mobile | one device has been configured by someone else who didn't log their changes |
| 22:49.44 | thomasg | ok, if you can, use rsync |
| 22:53.17 | zilux | just a note about reenabling the console for the debug board: |
| 22:53.36 | zilux | here inittab use tty1 as default tty |
| 22:53.56 | zilux | I just symlinked ttySAC0 as tty1 and restart getty |
| 22:54.22 | zilux | and stopped gsmd as advised by SpeedEvil and ScaredyCat |
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| 22:54.32 | zilux | a note has been added to the wiki |
| 22:54.36 | zilux | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Debug_Board_v2#Serial_Port |
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| 23:04.37 | cesarb | Stephmw_mobile: I'd simply tar everything piping the output to netcat |
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| 23:11.29 | beefsalad | mmmmm, bobsalad |
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| 23:24.41 | ccfly | bye |
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| 23:53.24 | ahven | bob or boobsalad? :) |
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