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| 00:33.23 | gamin | hey, am looking for a beta tester for the new release tangoGPS - anybody with a neo awake? |
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| 01:22.27 | uriahheep | ello :P |
| 01:22.40 | gamin | olleh |
| 01:22.55 | uriahheep | ?niod uoy woh |
| 01:23.19 | gamin | sleepy |
| 01:23.22 | uriahheep | heheh |
| 01:23.26 | uriahheep | :o |
| 01:23.34 | uriahheep | can't write THAT backwards! |
| 01:24.10 | gamin | you have a neo? |
| 01:24.25 | uriahheep | nah :( |
| 01:24.29 | uriahheep | waiting for freerunner |
| 01:24.37 | uriahheep | you? |
| 01:24.40 | gamin | yep |
| 01:24.54 | uriahheep | nice |
| 01:24.57 | gamin | am developing software |
| 01:25.02 | gamin | tangogps.org |
| 01:25.05 | uriahheep | 850mhz working yet? ;) |
| 01:25.13 | gamin | am in europe |
| 01:25.36 | uriahheep | nice :) |
| 01:25.39 | uriahheep | yeah, ok :P |
| 01:25.43 | uriahheep | bad question haha |
| 01:25.51 | gamin | actually I'm quite happy with the neo1973 |
| 01:25.59 | uriahheep | (nice about tangogps, i mean ;)) |
| 01:26.19 | uriahheep | hmm, i'm awaiting a few upgrades which will make me happy, heheh |
| 01:26.20 | gamin | new release is due tomorrow |
| 01:26.28 | uriahheep | of tango? |
| 01:26.31 | gamin | yes |
| 01:26.42 | mjr | goodie, but really not in a condition to test that now |
| 01:27.04 | gamin | mjr - but you do have a neo? |
| 01:27.32 | gamin | it is a lot more polished now and a couple of nice new features |
| 01:27.35 | jamewill_ | gamin, just sent you an overlong email..... |
| 01:27.51 | uriahheep | hmm... |
| 01:28.04 | mjr | yes I do |
| 01:28.11 | uriahheep | so the GTA02 will not be quad-band? :( |
| 01:28.17 | mjr | it will not, sadly |
| 01:28.26 | jamewill_ | uriahheep, 850 version though for you |
| 01:29.06 | jamewill_ | its a hemisphere phone, not a world phone :-) |
| 01:29.13 | uriahheep | ah, ok, cool then :) |
| 01:29.32 | uriahheep | ...how will the 850 version work? will it simply be a modded version of the current hardware? |
| 01:29.57 | uriahheep | ...because, well, if possible, it would be cool to have some kind of switch so that it can either be 850 or 900... |
| 01:30.12 | mjr | not gonna happen |
| 01:30.18 | uriahheep | you would just open the phone up, change a jumper, and then it would be a 900 phone instead of 850 ;) |
| 01:30.24 | uriahheep | hmm, too bad... |
| 01:30.35 | gamin | jamewill_: thanks for the mail, just read it... will answer tomorrow. do you have a neo already? |
| 01:30.36 | uriahheep | perhaps that's something that i could do to the phone myself or something, heh |
| 01:31.14 | jamewill_ | gamin, nope.... waiting patiently... |
| 01:32.10 | uriahheep | ok, 2 more hours and this damned fedora 8 dvd is finished downloading :-/ |
| 01:32.18 | uriahheep | the things i do for customers, i tell ya |
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| 01:39.16 | mjr | gamin, annyway, does there happen to be a method of preloading maps a bit better in the upcoming version? |
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| 01:40.21 | gamin | mjr: no, not in the next one. however, there are some scripts floating around for doing so. |
| 01:41.07 | mjr | yeah well, I did do one myself too, just noted how insanely much there is to download for say, a city |
| 01:41.33 | gamin | can you mail me yours? |
| 01:41.37 | uriahheep | hmm, why not use google maps? |
| 01:41.49 | gamin | uriahheep: because osm is open? |
| 01:41.50 | uriahheep | well... that would only be good when connected to the net i guess |
| 01:41.54 | uriahheep | gamin: ah, ok :P |
| 01:42.13 | gamin | actually you can use googlemaps |
| 01:42.26 | gamin | at least the maps and the terrain. |
| 01:42.35 | gamin | the sat images don't work |
| 01:42.41 | uriahheep | with tangogps you mean? |
| 01:42.44 | gamin | yes |
| 01:42.49 | uriahheep | cool :) |
| 01:43.19 | uriahheep | why wouldn't the satellite pics work? |
| 01:43.52 | gamin | they use a different coding scheme and I haven't yet found any other open server using it. |
| 01:44.00 | uriahheep | hmm, ok |
| 01:44.06 | mjr | gamin, it's very quick and dirty, but sure, address? |
| 01:44.11 | gamin | not so nice legal ground, even if maaemo-mapper is doing it |
| 01:44.19 | uriahheep | could you just use webkit and just run the google maps js api though? |
| 01:44.32 | gamin | marcus dot bauer at gmail dot com |
| 01:45.17 | gamin | uriahheep: webkit is just overkill and way to slow and crashes too often (as of now) |
| 01:45.25 | uriahheep | ah, ok ;) |
| 01:45.41 | gamin | I like links, has a great graphical mode too. |
| 01:46.00 | uriahheep | ...so, how ready for production do you guys think the software available for openmoko right now really is in general? |
| 01:46.06 | gamin | unfortunately it stopped working here the other day. |
| 01:46.10 | uriahheep | hmmm |
| 01:46.16 | uriahheep | links <3 |
| 01:46.17 | uriahheep | heheh |
| 01:46.35 | gamin | uriahheep: I use it as my daily phone, but I'm tough in taking ;) |
| 01:46.37 | uriahheep | it isn't that great for xhtml+css3, though ;) |
| 01:46.47 | uriahheep | gamin: heheh :P |
| 01:47.03 | uriahheep | gamin: what do you use for music? |
| 01:47.11 | uriahheep | or do you not use it for that? :P |
| 01:47.33 | gamin | currently I don't use it for music, but madplay (commandline) works great. |
| 01:48.11 | gamin | the mediaplayer suffers from pulseaudio which in turn suffers from missing floating point and some other stuff |
| 01:48.11 | uriahheep | hmmm |
| 01:48.35 | gamin | but lennart is aware of this |
| 01:48.42 | uriahheep | gamin: what about for listening to an entire album? how long does it take for madplay to load the next song? |
| 01:48.56 | gamin | no delay at all |
| 01:48.59 | uriahheep | hmm, nice |
| 01:49.04 | uriahheep | what about for flac, though? ;D |
| 01:49.26 | uriahheep | ...and, well, does the wifi support WPA right now? ;P |
| 01:49.39 | uriahheep | gnight mjr |
| 01:49.55 | uriahheep | aw :( |
| 01:49.59 | uriahheep | gnight :P |
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| 04:36.41 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4168 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/src/today-pim-journal.c: openmoko-today2: reset the missed call counter to 0, bug#1245 (Erin Yueh) |
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| 06:09.20 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03werner * r4169 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (boot-menu.patch gta02-bootmenu.patch nor-bootmenu.patch): (log message trimmed) |
| 06:09.20 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Add a visual indication for where we are booting from (NAND or NOR). |
| 06:09.20 | CIA-16 | openmoko: boot-menu.patch: |
| 06:09.20 | CIA-16 | openmoko: - include/bootmenu.h (struct bootmenu_setup): added field "comment" to set an |
| 06:09.22 | CIA-16 | openmoko: optional comment to display in the boot menu header |
| 06:09.24 | CIA-16 | openmoko: - common/bootmenu.c (show_bootmenu): display a comment if specified |
| 06:09.26 | CIA-16 | openmoko: gta02-bootmenu.patch: |
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| 06:22.35 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03werner * r4170 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/environment.in: Oops, we need usbtty=cdc_acm or else there's no ttyACM. |
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| 07:15.35 | Psi_ | hehe, latest buildhost images are pretty buggy |
| 07:16.18 | josch | this is the time to convert to moko underground :-P |
| 07:16.44 | Psi_ | heh |
| 07:16.45 | miniux | Where do I message the bot for the secret FTP server then? |
| 07:17.01 | miniux | (joking...) |
| 07:18.42 | josch | pst... i said nothing... |
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| 07:25.20 | sxpert | josch, with freed GSM firmware ? :-) |
| 07:27.20 | josch | haha |
| 07:31.43 | SpeedEvil | I'd guess that to be a several man-year effort. |
| 07:32.06 | raster | not to mention that u'll be hunted down and castrated by the FCC |
| 07:32.29 | raster | i.. - anything u do will be deemed illegal in terms of being able to be used on the wireless spectrum for phones |
| 07:32.30 | raster | :) |
| 07:33.05 | emdete | hi raster! |
| 07:33.11 | raster | emdete: hey hey! |
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| 07:33.19 | raster | emdete: i sqw your "dinge" |
| 07:33.20 | raster | :) |
| 07:33.22 | raster | saw |
| 07:33.48 | raster | very nice |
| 07:33.49 | emdete | you like it? |
| 07:33.49 | emdete | :D |
| 07:33.49 | raster | though a bit bizarre in how the ui works |
| 07:33.49 | raster | but i like the fingerprint |
| 07:33.52 | raster | all it needs is for the fingerprint to fade away after a few seconds |
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| 07:34.04 | emdete | the ui doesnt work as intended - its just to show something on the fosdem |
| 07:34.10 | raster | maybe every time u press u leave a new fingerprint and u leave a trail of the last 5 or 10 fingerprint presses |
| 07:34.17 | raster | but its cool for a demo |
| 07:34.18 | raster | :) |
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| 07:34.37 | emdete | raster: yes, that would be fine! is it possible to set a mouse-cursor out of a edje? |
| 07:35.01 | raster | hmm in ecore_evas - yes |
| 07:35.08 | raster | ecore_evas has its own soft-cursor |
| 07:35.17 | raster | u can set any evas object to be the cursor |
| 07:35.21 | emdete | but it takes a string - a filename, right? |
| 07:35.22 | raster | so u can use an edje |
| 07:35.40 | raster | ecore_evas_object_cursor_set() |
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| 07:35.56 | raster | in e17 the pointer is also a canvas |
| 07:36.04 | raster | but i run a buffer canvas in memory and upload to the real x cursor |
| 07:36.11 | raster | soe's own cursor is an edje too |
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| 07:37.19 | emdete | okay, will search for that - for now i am again with the daemons. we agreed on an api and i will follow that soon. also the gta02 is here and i have to check |
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| 07:37.40 | raster | u may find graphics on the gta02.. to ... be... sucky |
| 07:38.21 | raster | :( |
| 07:38.21 | emdete | ah, btw, for now the glamo/xrender-engine is slower than on the gta01, ... |
| 07:38.26 | josch | emdete, in python it's only cursor_set(self, cursor, int layer=0, int hotx=0, int hoty=0) |
| 07:38.26 | emdete | yes. |
| 07:38.27 | raster | xrender is not even accelerated right now |
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| 07:38.27 | raster | right now our uploads to video ram cant get over 7.3mb/sec |
| 07:38.27 | emdete | raster: how long to wait for that? |
| 07:38.27 | raster | well we were trying to get dma working |
| 07:38.29 | raster | dodji has been busy with that |
| 07:38.41 | raster | but we recently realised the samsung dma engine desing may actually mean that dma doesn thelp at all |
| 07:38.48 | raster | as it may lock the whole memory busy while doing dma |
| 07:38.55 | emdete | josch: josch whatever 'cursor' is there, i have that call and 'cursor' is a string pointing to a filename |
| 07:38.55 | raster | so ti'd be useless and we mayaswell copy with the cpu |
| 07:39.08 | raster | emdete: the c api can set an edje object |
| 07:39.15 | raster | lookslike the python api hasnt exported it |
| 07:39.16 | josch | emdete, it may also be an evas object |
| 07:39.23 | josch | (so the comment says) |
| 07:39.30 | raster | aaah cool |
| 07:39.30 | emdete | josch: ah, fine. |
| 07:39.31 | josch | read /python-ecore/ecore/evas/ecore.evas.c_ecore_evas_base.pxi |
| 07:39.36 | raster | so they put it via the same api and swithc on type |
| 07:39.36 | raster | cool |
| 07:39.51 | emdete | raster: so in the end the gta01 will be faster? |
| 07:40.04 | raster | emdete: i estimate u'll have about the same - for now |
| 07:40.11 | raster | xrender after dma i the next thing |
| 07:40.18 | raster | and that also means fixing up basic 2d blits |
| 07:40.20 | raster | and more |
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| 07:40.42 | raster | we possibly need to move everything to exa |
| 07:40.42 | raster | etc. |
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| 07:40.44 | emdete | what is 'exa'? |
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| 07:40.45 | raster | the 02 will get u better power management and 802.11 |
| 07:40.45 | raster | etc. |
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| 07:40.56 | raster | but gfx-wise u are not goign ti win anything any time soon |
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| 07:41.05 | raster | exa is an internal x driver architecture |
| 07:41.10 | raster | as opposed to kaa and xaa |
| 07:41.20 | emdete | :( this are very, very sad news... |
| 07:41.37 | raster | *IF* dma is smart - we may improve a little |
| 07:41.43 | raster | but i have done benchmarks |
| 07:41.44 | josch | raster, I only play with my gta01 - no real phone usage so pm is useless for me :-P |
| 07:41.59 | raster | the gta02 runs about the same speed as the gta01 in evas benchmarks |
| 07:42.04 | raster | thats software rendering |
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| 07:42.12 | SpeedEvil | Well - I haven't seen anything that would preclude GTA01 getting OK battery life. |
| 07:42.16 | krish | josch: i am ready to receive donation of gta01 |
| 07:42.21 | raster | what we gain with a faster cpu (400 vs 266) we lose in pixle upload speed |
| 07:42.22 | josch | raster, but it /could/ get faster hardware-wise? |
| 07:42.22 | emdete | yes, as you said days ago, 40%... but: the current state is much slower than gta01! visible slower... |
| 07:42.38 | raster | josch: it could |
| 07:42.41 | SpeedEvil | Even absoute worst case, around 20-30 hours. |
| 07:42.47 | raster | we can do partial xrender accel |
| 07:43.01 | raster | wth some careful coding around the non-acceleated bits of xrender i think it can be acceptable for simple stuff |
| 07:43.31 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravci1 (n=rmoravci@gtsgw.ttc.cz) |
| 07:43.36 | josch | goodby my sneeky evas animations.... |
| 07:43.51 | raster | i will do my best |
| 07:43.56 | josch | :-D |
| 07:43.58 | raster | but frankly the hardware is quite limited |
| 07:44.01 | emdete | josch: even my super simple num-pad entry animation suck... |
| 07:44.07 | raster | it has all the nasty limtis at just the wrong spots |
| 07:44.07 | raster | :( |
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| 07:44.09 | SpeedEvil | Well - mpeg animations should be cheap? |
| 07:44.26 | emdete | raster: where can we send beer to motivate you? :D |
| 07:44.29 | SpeedEvil | not mpeg - I mean if you can use the dct hardware in tiny images. |
| 07:44.29 | raster | SpeedEvil: the glamo has a video overlay so mpeg at low res will be better |
| 07:44.33 | josch | emdete, lol and i thought only my super advanced ultra transition keypad would suck :-P |
| 07:44.52 | emdete | josch: you have the lightning fast gta01 device! |
| 07:44.57 | josch | hrhr |
| 07:45.02 | raster | well not overlay |
| 07:45.05 | SpeedEvil | It is lightning fast. |
| 07:45.06 | raster | its actual textures video |
| 07:45.11 | raster | but again - out upload is 7.3mb/sec |
| 07:45.13 | SpeedEvil | It's a P120 or so. |
| 07:45.30 | SpeedEvil | That's damn fast - used right. |
| 07:45.42 | josch | emdete, we should switch our channel topic to: "warten auf gta03"... -_- |
| 07:46.04 | emdete | josch: no, to 'waiting for the next frame...' |
| 07:46.07 | raster | u can pull 400x300 video @ 30fps |
| 07:46.09 | raster | just |
| 07:46.10 | josch | emdete, hahaha |
| 07:46.12 | raster | thats it |
| 07:46.17 | raster | thts all the bandwidth will allow |
| 07:46.25 | raster | unless we use the mp4 decoder on-chip |
| 07:46.29 | raster | but right now that doesnt work |
| 07:46.35 | raster | thats going to be a lot of work to get going right |
| 07:47.04 | SpeedEvil | raster: Oh for more on cryptome.com |
| 07:47.26 | raster | SpeedEvil: what moe do u want? |
| 07:47.37 | raster | the chip specs arent going to improve the chip |
| 07:47.38 | raster | :) |
| 07:47.44 | SpeedEvil | raster: where the Calypso specs got leaked earlier. |
| 07:47.46 | raster | sure u can work on getting xvmc going |
| 07:48.10 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - hardware limits are the most annoying sort. |
| 07:49.36 | raster | yeah |
| 07:49.49 | raster | me - i'm goign to do what i can with this baby |
| 07:49.58 | raster | but gta03 is where i am setting my hopes |
| 07:50.09 | raster | hell i think we'd be better off right now going to a faster cpu |
| 07:50.12 | raster | eg a 533mhz one |
| 07:50.16 | raster | and dropping all video accel |
| 07:50.21 | raster | running the fb from system ram |
| 07:50.31 | raster | going down to QVGA or so to reduce the pixel count to update |
| 07:50.38 | raster | and u could get quite silky nice ui's |
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| 07:51.48 | SpeedEvil | Even simply using virtual windows gets you silky horizontal pans. |
| 07:52.03 | mbuf | SpeedEvil, i reflashed Feb 29 images with new USB cable and it booted to GUI; problem was a faulty USB cable |
| 07:52.05 | SpeedEvil | vertical pans are messier of course. |
| 07:52.12 | SpeedEvil | mbuf: :) |
| 07:54.40 | raster | SpeedEvil: virtual windows? |
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| 07:55.10 | SpeedEvil | The raw framebuffer hardware supports a larger virtual desktop. |
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| 07:55.22 | SpeedEvil | which you can pan a viewport around freely. |
| 07:56.12 | SpeedEvil | If you've got window decoration or headers or footers, this dosn't work so well. |
| 07:56.14 | raster | ooh that |
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| 07:56.54 | raster | u do have a blitter on the glamo |
| 07:56.58 | raster | it can do that |
| 07:57.03 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 07:57.14 | raster | but the problem is u cant have something over a still background |
| 07:57.17 | raster | well not with alpha |
| 07:57.19 | raster | unless u redraw |
| 07:57.33 | raster | blits limit u to moving solid rects of the screen around |
| 07:57.38 | raster | find - if thats all u want or do |
| 07:57.40 | raster | fine |
| 07:57.41 | raster | i mean |
| 07:57.50 | raster | but if u have a more powerful pipeline it doesnt work |
| 07:58.12 | SpeedEvil | Sure - if you want alpha blended stuff, it all slows down a lot. |
| 07:58.24 | raster | yup |
| 07:58.30 | raster | the problem is i use that everywhere |
| 07:58.49 | raster | bakcgrounds - if they move with contents are just more objects layered below the scrollview items |
| 07:58.54 | raster | and they just move 2 the same speed |
| 07:58.58 | raster | @ the same speed |
| 07:59.58 | SpeedEvil | Pretty, Easy to code, Cheap hardware. Pick any two. :/ |
| 08:00.26 | raster | hehehe |
| 08:00.28 | raster | as i said |
| 08:00.30 | raster | qvga |
| 08:00.37 | raster | no video chip (so direct fb access) |
| 08:00.40 | raster | and our current cpu |
| 08:00.43 | raster | or slightly better |
| 08:00.48 | raster | and we are much better off imho |
| 08:01.01 | SpeedEvil | You mean drop the display spec down to QVGA |
| 08:01.09 | raster | yes |
| 08:01.10 | SpeedEvil | OR just run it at QVGA in some instances? |
| 08:01.28 | raster | well runing @ qvga on the current display is just a hack on existing hw |
| 08:01.35 | raster | a qvga screen is much cheaper than vga |
| 08:01.39 | raster | and easier to source |
| 08:01.42 | SpeedEvil | Yeah :/ |
| 08:01.49 | josch | plz dont use qvga screens... :-( |
| 08:01.56 | raster | also we'd have better choice of lcm's |
| 08:02.03 | raster | maybe thinner and with less padding at the edges |
| 08:02.11 | josch | :-( :-( :-( |
| 08:02.17 | raster | it'd allow for a much slipepr design (in conjunction with other board/case work) |
| 08:02.32 | raster | josch: it may just be a practical necessity |
| 08:02.48 | josch | then /me has to stay with his gta01... :-/ |
| 08:02.50 | raster | tha fact is we dont have the processing or graphics pwoer to drive what we have acceptibly |
| 08:02.57 | raster | josch: the gta02 isnt changing |
| 08:03.00 | raster | its vga |
| 08:03.05 | SpeedEvil | I find 320*240 just too small to comfortably read ebooks on. |
| 08:03.07 | raster | we arnt going to go change any specs |
| 08:03.16 | raster | but gta02 and on is a different story |
| 08:03.32 | raster | err gta03 |
| 08:03.34 | raster | i mean |
| 08:03.36 | josch | i know but if grahics there are as fast as on gta01 - there is no reason for me to switch (i dont need wlan as it eats power) |
| 08:03.37 | SpeedEvil | And that's an important use-case for me. |
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| 08:03.55 | raster | SpeedEvil: we may go for WQVGA (320480) or whatever we can find |
| 08:03.57 | SpeedEvil | josch: it only eats power when on. |
| 08:03.58 | raster | we need to look into it all |
| 08:04.27 | raster | josch: the graphics are pretty awful considering. |
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| 08:05.01 | SpeedEvil | It's fine if you grew up with fvwm/... |
| 08:05.02 | josch | raster, i can imagine this but well... :-( |
| 08:05.22 | SpeedEvil | The question is that do the key demographic that we're aiming at expect more than that. |
| 08:06.01 | SpeedEvil | raster: how does the glamo price/increased price for 640*480 work out? |
| 08:07.13 | SpeedEvil | I suspect there is a considerable overlap between those that expect flashy, and those that expect a camera, or won't purchase. |
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| 08:08.46 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:08.58 | josch | morining Hopscotch |
| 08:09.57 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03erin_yueh * r4171 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-dialer2/src/dialer/moko-history.c: openmoko-dialer2: add SMS clicked in Call History (Erin Yueh) |
| 08:13.40 | zecke | raster: could you do a cat .git/config in the Qtopia tree and give me the url of the repository? I don't remember it :) |
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| 08:18.04 | raster | /git.openmoko.org/git/qtopia.git |
| 08:18.10 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:18.17 | raster | :) |
| 08:18.39 | raster | SpeedEvil: the problem is that specific-case graphics can be addressed |
| 08:18.47 | raster | but now u design a ui around specific hardware limitations |
| 08:18.57 | raster | the probem here is that then when u get new hw u re-design |
| 08:18.58 | raster | again |
| 08:19.01 | raster | and again |
| 08:19.02 | raster | and again |
| 08:19.07 | raster | and the cost gets more |
| 08:19.10 | raster | over time |
| 08:19.17 | raster | u want to be able to be generic |
| 08:19.25 | raster | and then just bump up the horsepower |
| 08:19.53 | SpeedEvil | And you're making it generic only on hardware with accelleration or small displays. |
| 08:20.05 | SpeedEvil | Yes, of course that's one option. |
| 08:20.17 | raster | screen size is easy to adapt to |
| 08:20.23 | raster | adapting whole rendering pipelines is much mroe work |
| 08:20.38 | raster | working design around rendering operations that are goign to be really slow is a lot more effort |
| 08:20.43 | raster | also takes much mroe skill |
| 08:21.34 | SpeedEvil | I mean screen size as in either you need hardware acceleration, or a small screen with a fast CPU |
| 08:22.07 | raster | also its just really annoying that iw as able to do much fancier beautiful things on a 206mhz ipaq 3660 @ qvga than i an do on a 400mhz + "3d acccelerated" thing at vga. |
| 08:22.10 | raster | many years later |
| 08:22.48 | raster | either way - we do have a plan |
| 08:22.59 | raster | also rememebr the glamo also costs a lot of dev time into drivers for it |
| 08:23.06 | raster | a dumb fb costs no such time |
| 08:23.14 | raster | the glamo is also a component cost |
| 08:23.21 | raster | no glamo == less cost |
| 08:23.29 | SpeedEvil | I have wondered in the past about seamless switching between 640*480 and 320*240. But that gets complex. |
| 08:23.32 | raster | qvga instead of vga == less cost |
| 08:23.33 | SpeedEvil | And board space/... |
| 08:23.37 | emdete | raster: is there documentation open for the glamo? |
| 08:23.38 | raster | yup |
| 08:23.39 | raster | and power |
| 08:23.45 | SpeedEvil | emdete: nda |
| 08:23.45 | raster | emdete: no :( |
| 08:23.54 | raster | emdete: but i can tell you things you want to know |
| 08:24.03 | raster | i have read all the docs from beginng to end |
| 08:24.11 | SpeedEvil | raster: iCan the glamo be turned on with the CPU off? |
| 08:24.19 | SpeedEvil | raster: just showing a static screen. |
| 08:24.19 | raster | SpeedEvil: seamless switching isnt really practical :( |
| 08:24.24 | raster | that is one sucky bit |
| 08:24.35 | raster | if it were i might say run at qvga normally and vga for special use cases |
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| 08:25.13 | raster | SpeedEvil: hmmm maybe in theory |
| 08:25.20 | raster | but thats not a use case we have accounted for |
| 08:25.33 | raster | not sure how much it will save u given the power soaked up by the backlight |
| 08:25.41 | raster | i can say i get 5.5hrs of battery on my gta02 |
| 08:25.48 | raster | thats with baclight at 100% |
| 08:25.52 | raster | on all the time |
| 08:25.56 | raster | and cpu on all the time |
| 08:26.44 | emdete | raster: gsm&gps on? |
| 08:26.57 | SpeedEvil | raster: Is that with any powersaving? |
| 08:27.00 | raster | emdete: i assume so. i havent gone turning them off |
| 08:27.06 | raster | default setup |
| 08:27.07 | emdete | hm... |
| 08:27.09 | raster | SpeedEvil: none |
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| 08:27.56 | thomasg | well, 5,5h is ok, I could live with that. I wonder what the glamo is good for if it's too limitated to be of real use. |
| 08:28.15 | SpeedEvil | thomasg: you can say '2d accellerated' on the box. |
| 08:28.22 | raster | thomasg: it can be used |
| 08:28.27 | raster | but frankly for X11 it is very limited |
| 08:28.33 | raster | u need to go to a lot of work to work around it |
| 08:28.41 | thomasg | so what's the problem with x11 and glamo? |
| 08:28.51 | SpeedEvil | Sucky bandwidth. |
| 08:28.52 | raster | pain for things like max blit size of 640x640 in 2d |
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| 08:29.42 | emdete | raster: can you write a short wiki with all the graphic operation the glamo supports? |
| 08:29.52 | ccfly | hello folks |
| 08:29.53 | SpeedEvil | The CPU can write to the GTA01 framebuffer at >>100Mbytes/second. |
| 08:30.27 | SpeedEvil | To the glamo internal framebuffer, it's nowhere near that much. |
| 08:30.57 | thomasg | what's the problem? the glamo itself or the interface between the s3c and the glamo? |
| 08:31.03 | SpeedEvil | interfgace |
| 08:31.21 | emdete | SpeedEvil: why is it designed this way? |
| 08:31.27 | SpeedEvil | Well - debatable - it's limited by the glamo deisgn. |
| 08:31.31 | raster | pitch/stride use only 10 bits |
| 08:31.37 | raster | the maximum row pitch is 1280 |
| 08:31.41 | SpeedEvil | emdete: becaqs the glamo was not intended for X |
| 08:31.46 | thomasg | so what's more outdated now: the s3c or the glamo? |
| 08:32.01 | raster | as x can have pixmaps up to 65536 - 1280 isn't enouhg to correctly handle x primitives |
| 08:32.11 | raster | so u need to force x's interna pixmap representation to be changed to be tiled |
| 08:32.34 | SpeedEvil | thomasg: the glamo isn't really outdated - it's just being used in an app it's not intended for. |
| 08:32.42 | emdete | would a non-x11 evas-engine be a solution? |
| 08:32.42 | raster | SpeedEvil: 100m/sec? u measured that? |
| 08:32.43 | SpeedEvil | Or ratehr - not optimal for. |
| 08:32.45 | raster | actualy... |
| 08:32.48 | raster | let me measure that |
| 08:32.51 | SpeedEvil | raster: it's on the order of that. |
| 08:32.57 | raster | emdete: non-x11 in what way? |
| 08:33.07 | SpeedEvil | emdete: no - the problem is raw transfer bandwidth. |
| 08:33.08 | emdete | raster: accel+fb or something |
| 08:33.13 | raster | SpeedEvil: i just measured mem->mem on my gtao02 and clokced in at 57m/sec |
| 08:33.44 | SpeedEvil | emdete: you cannot take a generated image and copy it to the framebuffer inside the glamo very fast |
| 08:33.58 | SpeedEvil | raster: oops - sorry - I was only thinking of mem speed - not mem-mem |
| 08:34.21 | emdete | SpeedEvil: shure, but above you said: glamo was not intended for X |
| 08:34.53 | emdete | SpeedEvil: so if you have pixmaps in there you can move them around fast, right? |
| 08:35.09 | SpeedEvil | emdete: yes, it can do blitting. |
| 08:35.14 | raster | SpeedEvil: reads u may see 100m/sec i was checking memcpy basically |
| 08:35.18 | raster | let me check |
| 08:35.19 | emdete | including some operations...? |
| 08:35.49 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 08:35.50 | raster | if u check the glamo itself u pretty much see it was designed for qvga |
| 08:35.57 | raster | the glamo is a very old chip |
| 08:35.59 | raster | many years old |
| 08:36.07 | raster | it was designed when qvga was a "top of the line" display |
| 08:36.11 | raster | it CAN do vga |
| 08:36.21 | raster | but thats pushing it beyond its original design intensions |
| 08:36.25 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@vpn0055.hrz.uni-dortmund.de) |
| 08:36.27 | raster | that is one reason we are hitting problems |
| 08:36.32 | SpeedEvil | raster: what's the internakl RAM on the glamo? |
| 08:36.36 | raster | 8m |
| 08:36.48 | emdete | internal ram == internal fb? |
| 08:36.51 | raster | yes |
| 08:36.52 | raster | video ram |
| 08:37.07 | raster | like any vidoe card on your pc (well not intel smt ones - but ati/nvidia etc.) |
| 08:37.17 | raster | the usual cards ont he end of an agp/pci/pcie bus |
| 08:37.25 | raster | 8m is for the fb and anything else |
| 08:38.14 | emdete | okay, so vga/16 needs 600K, right? |
| 08:38.24 | raster | yup |
| 08:38.32 | raster | therabouts |
| 08:38.35 | emdete | does it do /16 or /24? |
| 08:38.48 | raster | with the video video bus bandwidth u can copy about 13fps to video @ 640x480@16bpp |
| 08:38.52 | raster | its 16 |
| 08:39.06 | raster | u dont want to consider 8bp - its not worth the pain |
| 08:39.12 | emdete | shure |
| 08:39.32 | emdete | can it internaly operate with different models like rgba? |
| 08:39.38 | raster | i probably should write a wiki page about the glamo |
| 08:39.49 | raster | aaah now u come to the gotchas |
| 08:39.58 | raster | the glamo has the ability to do scaled blits |
| 08:39.58 | emdete | as i whished above :D yes, that would be graet |
| 08:40.02 | raster | it ALSO can do alpha blits |
| 08:40.23 | raster | it can in fact handle ARGB8888 (32bit) PREMUL images (same format as xrender in 2bpp) |
| 08:40.27 | raster | BUT |
| 08:40.27 | *** join/#openmoko polz (n=polz@lbcsi.fri.uni-lj.si) |
| 08:40.29 | raster | only as a soruce |
| 08:40.36 | raster | it can only blend TO RGB555/565 |
| 08:40.44 | raster | so u cant have destination alpha |
| 08:41.13 | emdete | so if u construct an image internaly alpa is lost...? |
| 08:41.18 | raster | somehow that was just dropped from the pipeline - even tho the work in ding a blend involves reading the rgb565 dest, converting internally to argb32 then blending then converting back and dithering... |
| 08:41.29 | raster | they didnt do argb32 dest blend support |
| 08:41.37 | raster | and yes |
| 08:41.44 | raster | u ant construct images with alpha internally on the glamo |
| 08:41.49 | raster | so u'd have to generate with the cpu and upload |
| 08:42.05 | raster | and so u end up with the limit of 7.3 mb/sec again |
| 08:42.19 | emdete | you cant even convert it back to rgba? |
| 08:42.52 | emdete | shit chip. |
| 08:43.06 | raster | no |
| 08:43.12 | emdete | okay, i have to go off for a moment ... |
| 08:43.17 | raster | why do u think i keep making u guys depressed? |
| 08:43.27 | raster | i am being a realist - i've read the specs |
| 08:43.32 | raster | i know what we can do with it |
| 08:43.49 | raster | if we have a hyper-fast bus to it and direct or excellent access we coudl fill in gaps with the cpu |
| 08:43.53 | raster | but we dont even have that |
| 08:43.58 | raster | its sloooooow access |
| 08:45.49 | SpeedEvil | Get X to output DCT |
| 08:45.55 | raster | hahahahah |
| 08:46.05 | raster | not practical |
| 08:46.12 | SpeedEvil | Not really, no. |
| 08:46.18 | raster | we will spend so much time generatng dct blocks and compressing them.... |
| 08:46.19 | raster | :) |
| 08:46.48 | SpeedEvil | Though can you use it for animated buttons? |
| 08:47.05 | SpeedEvil | Or is it whole screen only. |
| 08:47.48 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-216-247.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:48.48 | raster | actua;ly amazingly its not |
| 08:48.56 | raster | one thing they almsot got right is the yuv video support |
| 08:49.11 | SpeedEvil | It's a lot of coding for probably marginal benefit though. |
| 08:49.35 | SpeedEvil | The only thing I can think where it would be fun would be for lots of animated buttons |
| 08:50.06 | SpeedEvil | or video thumbnails. |
| 08:51.36 | raster | not practical |
| 08:51.44 | raster | if its buttons - pixmaps and copy them with blitter |
| 08:52.01 | raster | the problem is that right now any engine i have for evas is either 100% softwaqre and upload it all |
| 08:52.05 | raster | or 100% hardware |
| 08:52.09 | raster | (xrender/gl/whatever( |
| 08:52.24 | raster | i have nothing that tries to walk a middle ground |
| 08:55.52 | raster | oh god |
| 08:55.54 | raster | this hurts |
| 08:56.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1251 has been created by will(AT)openmoko.com |
| 08:56.01 | cdbot2 | * * About Openmoko window outdated |
| 08:56.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1251 |
| 08:57.47 | SpeedEvil | The only 'right' way is to special case every device - but that's of course silly from most perspectives. |
| 09:00.27 | raster | speed tests of uploading pixels - 480x640 @ 16bpp (600kb) |
| 09:00.28 | raster | gta02: |
| 09:00.28 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:00.28 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:00.28 | raster | gta01: |
| 09:00.28 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:00.30 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:02.09 | *** join/#openmoko torpor (n=torpor@62.75.148.116) |
| 09:02.14 | torpor | yo |
| 09:02.16 | torpor | hows it going people! |
| 09:02.39 | *** part/#openmoko torpor (n=torpor@62.75.148.116) |
| 09:02.44 | *** join/#openmoko torpor (n=torpor@62.75.148.116) |
| 09:03.39 | raster | i've been busy making everyone depressed |
| 09:03.39 | raster | :) |
| 09:03.43 | buz | yeah |
| 09:03.47 | torpor | typical! |
| 09:03.48 | torpor | how so? |
| 09:04.01 | SpeedEvil | Reality of graphics performance on GTA02 |
| 09:04.03 | buz | and i'm seriously considering ordering a nokia now |
| 09:04.33 | torpor | let me guess: writing awesome apps that nobody else can r[3~write. |
| 09:04.46 | buz | torpor: no writing apps gta02 can't run |
| 09:04.56 | buz | not fast enough anyway |
| 09:04.59 | torpor | heh |
| 09:05.04 | buz | or rather, can run but not display |
| 09:05.40 | torpor | well its a phone, not a games console. |
| 09:05.43 | SpeedEvil | Speaking solely personally - what I want from a phone normally is large high contrast UI, not alpha blending or subtle blends of colors. |
| 09:05.53 | torpor | (he says as he hacks synth code on his phone..) |
| 09:06.08 | torpor | SpeedEvil: i'm with you.. i want SVG, and thats all i need. |
| 09:06.18 | torpor | long as i can do all my UI in SVG i'm happy. |
| 09:07.58 | *** join/#openmoko nurgle_ (n=nurgle@pirates.ivistar.de) |
| 09:09.58 | *** join/#openmoko Blastur (i=Blastur@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 09:11.25 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
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| 09:14.33 | zecke | raster: hehe |
| 09:15.30 | JonCruz | SVG!!!!! |
| 09:17.04 | torpor | JonCruz: my favourite. ;) |
| 09:17.53 | JonCruz | SVG Tiny! |
| 09:18.17 | torpor | bling! |
| 09:19.35 | torpor | <-= i just use normal SVG, and Inkscape rocks for doing GUI design. |
| 09:19.52 | torpor | when i'm finished, turn everything into well-organized cairo cmds, and oila: working interface. |
| 09:20.06 | ScaredyCat | mmmm |
| 09:20.36 | ScaredyCat | so this change in ABI ... what does that mean in terms of compatability with older built stuff? |
| 09:22.17 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 09:24.42 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 09:26.01 | thos | ScaredyCat, which change? |
| 09:28.01 | torpor | anyone know who is responsible for the screenshot here: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/index.php?page=2 |
| 09:28.04 | torpor | the one of vienna GPS? |
| 09:28.13 | XorA | ScaredyCat: if you mean the OE change, it means you need to blow away tmp/ but the packages themselves dont change |
| 09:28.16 | torpor | coz i'm in vienna too and i would *love* to have this map+GPS setup .. |
| 09:28.24 | torpor | so if anyone knows, please tell me what thats all about. |
| 09:29.05 | thomasg | torpor, josch, a guy from #neo1973-germany (he's currently not online), is responsible for the screenshot and the app |
| 09:29.09 | Blastur | what phone model is n770? |
| 09:29.16 | torpor | thomasg: awesome thanks. |
| 09:29.36 | thomasg | torpor, mom, I'll try find the source for you |
| 09:30.10 | XorA | Blastur: its the nokia internet tablet |
| 09:30.11 | torpor | thomasg: would be very nice because i'd love to have GPS for vienna.. |
| 09:30.31 | thomasg | torpor, but the app is currently only map-viewing with gps, no routing |
| 09:30.49 | thomasg | torpor, http://neo1973-germany.de/wiki/pylgrim |
| 09:30.50 | torpor | thats okay, i can handle my own routing! i just need a moving map to show me where i am! :) |
| 09:30.56 | torpor | awesome, thanks! |
| 09:31.00 | ScaredyCat | XorA: so packages built before will still work ok on images build after? |
| 09:31.11 | XorA | ScaredyCat: yes |
| 09:31.16 | ScaredyCat | k, good |
| 09:31.21 | *** join/#openmoko [[thufir]] (n=[[thufir@S01060016ec23af88.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 09:31.26 | XorA | ScaredyCat: the staging in tmp/ changed so its identical to a running rootfs |
| 09:31.37 | ScaredyCat | except oe dev is broken for quite a bit |
| 09:32.13 | XorA | it was working until big change yesterday |
| 09:32.14 | ScaredyCat | yes, I'm getting a lot of staging errors |
| 09:32.34 | ScaredyCat | I'm currently trying to do the full rebuild |
| 09:32.54 | torpor | oh god please tell me i don't have to do a full rebuild .. i'm on mokomakefile, isn't that supposed to be protected from these issues? |
| 09:33.13 | ScaredyCat | torpor: only if you use oe.dev |
| 09:33.25 | ScaredyCat | if you use om you're ok - for the moment :) |
| 09:33.57 | ScaredyCat | I presume at some point om will follow and you'll need to .... |
| 09:34.02 | torpor | i don't remember what i'm using, how do i tell? |
| 09:34.21 | torpor | i just do make update at least once a week, assuming it'll catch me up with you guys safely .. i don't pay attention to the details right now. |
| 09:35.29 | torpor | raster: its because SVG is "not another GUI layout format". |
| 09:36.10 | raster | eh? |
| 09:36.13 | raster | how is it not so? |
| 09:36.15 | *** join/#openmoko ndavey (n=neil@60-240-227-199-vic-pppoe.tpgi.com.au) |
| 09:36.34 | torpor | i mean, no offense, but i wrote a DOS-based framebuffer engine that did GUI's like illume in 1986. seeing it being written, again, in the 21st century .. okay. fair enough. we get the point, GUI resources are never gonna be perfect. |
| 09:36.38 | torpor | so, lets just use SVG. |
| 09:37.27 | raster | why? |
| 09:37.35 | torpor | the point with using SVG is that it provides a means of defining a GUI dictionary which just plain works, without much fuss. an artist can use inkscape+SVG to describe elements, completely and utterly, and then that nomenclature can be very easily translated into functioning code. |
| 09:37.40 | raster | have u any idea how much mroe work it is to render detailed vector gfx? |
| 09:37.47 | raster | letalone the cost of parsinx the xml... |
| 09:37.57 | torpor | SVG == drawing commands+dicationary/hierarchy sufficient to do the GUI job. |
| 09:38.07 | raster | its not |
| 09:38.15 | raster | u cant lay out with fixed size vs. scalable |
| 09:38.27 | raster | alignement and offsets are not done |
| 09:38.30 | torpor | i'm not saying don't do what you do because what you do is indeed fascinating and fun, but for my needs, its just not going to cut it. I can't give illume to an artist right now and expect them to do some3thing really creative with it. i can give inkscape to them, though. |
| 09:38.32 | raster | sure svg is good for artists |
| 09:38.40 | raster | but its defintiely not somehting i would throw at a runtime gui |
| 09:39.06 | raster | and illume has its ui abstracted via edje |
| 09:39.16 | raster | and u can build the ui from svg eleents or bitmap or anything |
| 09:39.16 | torpor | here's how i use SVG: define the whole GUI with element, name the elements properly and appropriately, write a design doc that describes - in english, using the element id's - how the interface will work, move on from there. |
| 09:39.22 | torpor | SVG elements -> drawing commands. |
| 09:40.00 | raster | and u cant properly do padding and other layout things that end up being necessities in svg |
| 09:40.03 | raster | u ned up needing more info |
| 09:40.09 | torpor | i don't think so, no. |
| 09:40.17 | raster | you do |
| 09:40.26 | raster | ok |
| 09:40.32 | torpor | it just hasn't been as much of an issue for us - building games and music apps using SVG - as you make it out to be. |
| 09:40.43 | raster | so how in svg would you define an element always 32 pixels in from the right of an arbitray sized container |
| 09:40.51 | raster | and always 64x64 |
| 09:40.52 | raster | ? |
| 09:40.52 | torpor | pixels? |
| 09:41.03 | raster | so my containr may be anything from 30x30 up to 1000x2000 |
| 09:41.05 | raster | yes |
| 09:41.09 | raster | in the end everything boils down to pixels |
| 09:41.14 | raster | u can sit here and argue dpi |
| 09:41.20 | raster | but a point is mapped to a pixel |
| 09:41.27 | raster | mayaswell talk pixels- thats what the display is |
| 09:41.50 | torpor | i think GUI work is either a) simple, or b) complex. the tool does not determine this specification: the coder does. |
| 09:41.53 | raster | in svg i can define something is 10% of the way along some axis |
| 09:41.55 | raster | i can scale that |
| 09:42.12 | raster | gien a dpi in an svg design all elements are descriped with co-ordinates in points |
| 09:42.15 | raster | (mayaswell be pixels) |
| 09:42.31 | raster | sooner or later u will ned to be able to define such things |
| 09:42.40 | torpor | not really, no. |
| 09:42.48 | raster | like the photo of the incoming call is always on the top-right at a given fixed wsize in points (pixels) |
| 09:42.56 | raster | but i may have to adapt to any screen (or window) size |
| 09:43.05 | raster | yes you do |
| 09:43.10 | raster | example |
| 09:43.14 | raster | virtual keyboard pops up |
| 09:43.16 | torpor | really, this is just not an issue. the only issue is aspect ration - beyond that, the way we use SVG doesn't impose the limits you describe. |
| 09:43.19 | raster | this reduces window size |
| 09:43.22 | *** join/#openmoko grummel (n=grummel@p5B16EEB2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:43.33 | raster | u cant just have the contact person photo squash |
| 09:43.42 | torpor | why not? it looks great. |
| 09:43.48 | zecke | do you we have a set of 'wanted' categories for illume? |
| 09:43.50 | torpor | people get very used to scaled interfaces, very fast. |
| 09:43.52 | raster | so now instead u are forced to put everything in a scrolled area - and u cant adapot some things to scale to fit and others to remain fixed |
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| 09:44.05 | raster | it is an issue |
| 09:44.10 | raster | it is very much an isse |
| 09:44.26 | torpor | not really |
| 09:44.29 | raster | zecke: wanted? |
| 09:44.36 | torpor | scaling interfaces are awesome. users intuitively get it. |
| 09:45.20 | raster | well sit down and write a replacement ui that is 100% svg |
| 09:45.25 | torpor | i have! |
| 09:45.27 | torpor | ;) |
| 09:45.31 | raster | and where is it? |
| 09:45.34 | torpor | one thing though: i do this per-app .. |
| 09:45.45 | zecke | raster: I can stick anything into Categories= but I assume the launcher has some kind of order displaying the categories? important ones first |
| 09:45.47 | torpor | not approved for release yet .. ;) |
| 09:46.04 | raster | zecke: thats defined by the applications.menu file (freedesktop.org standard) |
| 09:46.10 | torpor | waiting for the gta02 to go public before i push my apps out there. no point having apps like mine if only nerds like you can run them, raster! :P |
| 09:46.27 | *** join/#openmoko xcasex (n=xcasex@clients.udk.se) |
| 09:46.30 | raster | torpor: well in thaqt case - i'll happily march on :) |
| 09:46.48 | raster | i belive you have set yourseful up for problems later on in your approach. |
| 09:46.48 | zecke | raster: http://research.sun.com/projects/lively/ for complete SVG UI's :) |
| 09:47.22 | Stephmw | it'll be interesting to have apps with vector UIs - I still don't think they're appropriate for small devices |
| 09:47.59 | torpor | still, please don['t get political: i like your illume work, it is very interesting, but i can't help feeling that you're doing the hardwork just for the sake of having done the hard work, instead of looking at the tool in front of you (SVG and inkscape) and working out that angle a bit less bone-headedly... |
| 09:48.34 | raster | torpor: i use inkscape all the time |
| 09:48.38 | raster | i use gimp al lthe time |
| 09:48.50 | raster | i know what i can get out of it or not |
| 09:48.53 | raster | and it has limits |
| 09:48.55 | torpor | do you use svg elements and id's to declare a user interface *dictionary*? |
| 09:48.59 | raster | those limits somethign like edje bridges |
| 09:49.22 | raster | edje does that - if your derm of dictionary is what i think it is |
| 09:49.44 | torpor | eh? so you're dictionary is not part of the SVG DOM then? its outside? |
| 09:50.07 | raster | correct |
| 09:50.12 | raster | svg is just another graphical element |
| 09:50.18 | raster | its pre-rendered n ui compile-time |
| 09:50.31 | raster | so no runtime rendering of svg (to avoid the expense) |
| 09:50.45 | raster | i can include svg runtime - but it really puts a nasty hit on performance |
| 09:50.52 | torpor | well then, thats where we differ. SVG is for me, first of all, the GUI dictionary of elements, as well as the drawing descriptoins for those elements. I don't need any outside config - its all contained within a standardized SVG file. |
| 09:51.14 | raster | for me its outside |
| 09:51.18 | torpor | right. |
| 09:51.23 | raster | as svg cant contain the info i want or need |
| 09:51.30 | torpor | and thats where we differ. my UI's: all contained within a single SVG file. |
| 09:51.37 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@net26-100.tvu.ac.uk) |
| 09:51.39 | raster | it cant do non-iniformly scaled uis in 1 element |
| 09:52.04 | raster | err |
| 09:52.07 | raster | non-uniformly |
| 09:52.17 | raster | u need to split it up inot all sub-elements |
| 09:52.38 | raster | even then u oftne want some parts to sretch, some ro remain fixed |
| 09:52.47 | raster | eg "bevels" is a simple example |
| 09:52.58 | torpor | meh |
| 09:52.58 | raster | u want a 3 pixel border "bevel" around some element |
| 09:53.15 | raster | u want the top and bottom of a scrollbar to be rounded and fixed in aspect, and the middle to stretch |
| 09:53.18 | torpor | its all relative, raster. ;) |
| 09:53.20 | raster | etc.etc. |
| 09:53.33 | torpor | bevels/scrollbars? who the hell uses those any more? may as well re-implement curses .. |
| 09:54.23 | raster | torpor: and thus you just created a ui that is even incapable of doing what has come before it |
| 09:54.31 | raster | that is why i say you are missing something |
| 09:54.38 | torpor | no, i've created a UI that is miles ahead of history. |
| 09:54.51 | raster | i doubt it |
| 09:54.55 | torpor | that you do |
| 09:54.56 | raster | i can do both |
| 09:55.04 | raster | i can mix and match |
| 09:55.09 | miniux | perfection is an art and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. we get it... |
| 09:55.11 | torpor | for our apps, bevels, 3-pixel borders = baggage. |
| 09:55.17 | raster | i can go from pixel-perfect to entirely relative |
| 09:55.34 | raster | i've tried to addess both ends at once |
| 09:55.53 | torpor | we treat GUI's as ART. |
| 09:55.55 | raster | bevels are a simple example |
| 09:56.03 | raster | the same thing extends to a tonne of design uses |
| 09:56.12 | raster | it doesn thave to be bevels |
| 09:56.18 | torpor | i would be impressed if it was 1992. |
| 09:56.31 | torpor | but its 2008. who the hell wants windows and scroll bars any more? |
| 09:56.32 | raster | it can be a chrome reflective bar with rounded ends |
| 09:56.54 | raster | it can be many things where you want some bits to scale, some to not, some to scale only in specific ways and withn specific limits |
| 09:56.55 | raster | etc. |
| 09:56.55 | torpor | and what use is a chrome reflected bar to anyone other than the honda-CRX crowd? |
| 09:57.00 | *** join/#openmoko nicod (n=nicolas@2a01:5d8:52e8:7607:218:deff:fea5:ed26) |
| 09:57.32 | raster | you basicaly have built a gui system that limits and defines how you will do design |
| 09:57.35 | torpor | you seem to be doing UI's for the sake of candy and crack, not function. |
| 09:57.36 | raster | do it only for things YOU like |
| 09:57.40 | SpeedEvil | A chrome reflective UI element - in conjunction with the camera, reflects the environment appropriatel. |
| 09:57.50 | raster | you are not cataring to people who perhaps may not like what you like |
| 09:57.52 | Stephmw | ... taking that comment out of context, scrollbars || scroll indication are an absolute MUST for usability |
| 09:57.54 | raster | or may need or want other things |
| 09:58.09 | raster | Tronic: no - that is what oyu seem to be doing. |
| 09:58.23 | raster | i'm accounting for all ends of the spectrum. from fully scalable through to not |
| 09:58.26 | torpor | SVG = infinite universe for GUI artist. edje == only what raster thinks is necessary. |
| 09:58.29 | raster | you are ONLY doing "fully scalable" |
| 09:59.06 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: working with usability and interaction designers has rubbed off on me ;) |
| 09:59.10 | SpeedEvil | Scalable is fine if you're on a platform where the user cannot see pixels. |
| 09:59.13 | torpor | i think scrollbars/scroll indicators are a despicable hack from lazy GUI artists who have no decent relationship with their programmer |
| 09:59.37 | torpor | .. and thus: the end user suffers. |
| 09:59.37 | SpeedEvil | torpor: how else do you display a long item? |
| 09:59.39 | raster | edje is a way of collecting ui elements together so they can do anythign from scale to align ro remain fixed or with fixed and offsets |
| 09:59.48 | SpeedEvil | torpor: for exampe a book. |
| 09:59.54 | miniux | Clearly you get a BIGGER SCREEN |
| 10:00.04 | miniux | duh |
| 10:00.07 | raster | i have no interest in boxing designers into a limited subset |
| 10:00.12 | torpor | anyway, this is moot. i'm enjoying watching the edje process. i'm a fan. but i'm not convinced you're doing things that need doing. |
| 10:00.29 | torpor | raster: what is ejde if it isn't a well-defined box? |
| 10:00.30 | raster | i want to open up all doors |
| 10:00.34 | raster | not a subset of them |
| 10:00.42 | torpor | then why force yet another GUI-description on the world? |
| 10:00.57 | torpor | SVG = infinite set of definitions. edje == another grammar to learn. |
| 10:01.02 | raster | torpor: why force one that is only a subset of things needed? |
| 10:01.18 | torpor | SVG == wide open. |
| 10:01.23 | raster | "here have a car - but our designers decided you dont need seats anymore. people can drive while standing" |
| 10:01.30 | torpor | strawman |
| 10:01.39 | torpor | there is no such limit with SVG-only GUI's. |
| 10:01.54 | torpor | there is a limit with new-fangled-grammer GUI's such as edje. |
| 10:01.57 | raster | "since our designers all do their design while standing, you obviously dont need it" |
| 10:02.06 | torpor | lol\ |
| 10:02.30 | torpor | let me ask you this question: which car can i drive with the 'edje' key? |
| 10:02.46 | raster | both |
| 10:02.53 | raster | edje ITSELf does not do vector design |
| 10:02.59 | raster | but u can use .svg as source images |
| 10:02.59 | torpor | so there are only two cars? |
| 10:03.25 | raster | to the user at the end of they day they get both |
| 10:03.36 | raster | whichever the overall design decides |
| 10:03.45 | raster | ay mix of them |
| 10:04.04 | raster | i am not trying to replace svg |
| 10:04.05 | raster | or beat it |
| 10:04.09 | torpor | okay, here is what i see the difference is: your user is not a programmer, your user is the user. my user is a programmer, who is working with an artist to define a graphically rich UI that can run on a larger number of different devices .. |
| 10:04.18 | raster | i am just putting in al the things svg oesnt have into a container format |
| 10:04.31 | raster | that is intended to do other things that svg doesnt do (well) |
| 10:04.55 | raster | my user is that too |
| 10:05.07 | raster | there is tangible results of such work |
| 10:05.11 | raster | look at canola |
| 10:05.15 | raster | it works |
| 10:05.20 | thos | just about |
| 10:05.34 | raster | sure got some rough edges |
| 10:05.48 | raster | but a real ui on a real embedded device |
| 10:05.52 | raster | doing real functionality |
| 10:05.55 | thos | not really |
| 10:05.58 | thos | it doesn't do much |
| 10:05.59 | raster | and designed by real designers and real programmers |
| 10:06.07 | torpor | meh |
| 10:06.19 | torpor | as opposed to what? "blow up doll" programmers and designers? |
| 10:06.28 | raster | thos: compared to the theoretical discussion here - it does a lot |
| 10:06.33 | torpor | please, don't tell me i have to teach my designers yet another tool. inkscape is as far as they need to go. |
| 10:07.36 | methril | <Man_of_Wax> morning |
| 10:07.50 | methril | ups morning |
| 10:08.12 | raster | thos: well on my n800 it does scan and index photos, videosn and musci - and plays them and lets me browse relatively nicely |
| 10:08.26 | raster | thats all it was meant to be really |
| 10:09.02 | thos | raster, oh I thought we were talking UIs |
| 10:09.15 | thos | raster, the UI is fairly limited in terms of appearance and effects |
| 10:09.18 | thos | it's not even that smooth either |
| 10:09.34 | raster | thos: if u consider what its running on and doing - its pretty good |
| 10:09.49 | raster | considering u get no help from hardware acceleration |
| 10:09.56 | raster | and the video bus it has to blast data across |
| 10:10.02 | raster | and the resolution involved... |
| 10:10.05 | thos | maybe, but it's probably not worth it |
| 10:10.19 | raster | if they dropped the animation it'd be snappier |
| 10:10.24 | torpor | what user considers the video bus when they're trying to play an mp3? |
| 10:10.47 | raster | torpor: what user considers inkscape when they are playing an mp3? |
| 10:10.59 | torpor | none of my users. ;) |
| 10:17.38 | Stephmw | raster: offtopic, are .edj files architecture-dependent? |
| 10:17.48 | raster | stp yup |
| 10:17.49 | *** join/#openmoko paguilar (n=paguilar@217.194.179.73) |
| 10:17.53 | raster | Stephmw: yup. |
| 10:18.06 | raster | they are just like a .zip file |
| 10:18.08 | raster | but simpler |
| 10:18.19 | raster | with arch independent data structs encoded in them |
| 10:18.24 | raster | as well as all image data needed |
| 10:18.29 | raster | they are extensible |
| 10:18.41 | Shoragan | raster, embryo has been accepted by the ftp-masters, thanks :) |
| 10:18.44 | raster | so over time more can be added |
| 10:18.49 | raster | Shoragan: cool |
| 10:18.58 | Stephmw | right - so I wouldn't be able to build one on x86 and OTA provision it on an ARM device without some rebuilding? |
| 10:20.02 | *** join/#openmoko johncylee (n=john@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 10:21.01 | torpor | how do you create these files? is there an editor? |
| 10:21.46 | Stephmw | torpor: http://wiki.enlightenment.org/index.php/Edje is what I'm following |
| 10:21.54 | raster | torpor: text editor or edje_editor (gui) |
| 10:22.07 | raster | teph no - u can. |
| 10:22.11 | torpor | didn't know about edje_editor .. does it run on osx? |
| 10:22.15 | raster | Stephmw: the same .edj file works on everything |
| 10:22.17 | raster | all architectures |
| 10:22.20 | raster | all endianesses |
| 10:22.26 | raster | its architecture independent |
| 10:22.32 | raster | same way a .zip file or .jpg file is |
| 10:22.33 | Stephmw | ah, so it's _not_ arch dependent ;) |
| 10:22.41 | raster | just because its binary does nto instantly make it architecture-bound |
| 10:22.50 | raster | ooh sorry |
| 10:22.53 | raster | missed the dependent |
| 10:22.56 | raster | its INdependent |
| 10:23.06 | Stephmw | np |
| 10:23.10 | raster | torpor: i guess it would - if u had the osx xserver installed |
| 10:23.26 | zecke|monkeytask | raster: how do you search for the icon? relative? so something like foo/Bar would find something? |
| 10:23.37 | raster | zecke|monkeytask: as per the fdo specs |
| 10:23.52 | zecke|monkeytask | raster: OSX XServer: it is installed by default with leopard nowadays |
| 10:24.01 | raster | a simple version is to put an icon in /usr/share/pixmaps |
| 10:24.05 | raster | like myicon.png |
| 10:24.08 | raster | then Icon-myicon.png |
| 10:24.29 | Stephmw | raster: any situations where you'd recommend against Edje/Evas? (yes, I know, I'm asking the choir) |
| 10:24.30 | raster | zecke|monkeytask: there u go - then it would work - efl works on osx - or last i knew it did as some of our devs use osx |
| 10:24.41 | raster | Stephmw: depends what u want |
| 10:25.02 | *** join/#openmoko kloeri (i=kloeri@freenode/staff/kloeri) |
| 10:25.03 | raster | its a good way of basically doing something that can lay out subeleents either scalably or in a fixe fashion or both |
| 10:25.06 | raster | do animationand transitions |
| 10:25.14 | raster | but i owuldnt say to use it to REPLACe a widget set |
| 10:25.22 | raster | u arnt going to do a list view in edje |
| 10:25.27 | raster | nor in svg or anything else |
| 10:25.39 | raster | u could make each item *IN* a listview be an edje item |
| 10:25.47 | raster | but u'd want a higher level widget set to put those together |
| 10:25.57 | Stephmw | ahh, that's good to know |
| 10:26.01 | raster | if you want to do something really custom u may use edje for ui (screen) layout |
| 10:26.09 | raster | then swallow old-style widgets in |
| 10:26.15 | raster | the widgets could use edje for theme stuff |
| 10:26.20 | raster | etk and ewl do that |
| 10:26.25 | raster | but u'd be doing a mix & match thing |
| 10:26.34 | raster | edje itself is no svg replacement |
| 10:26.47 | raster | it doesnt do vectors or all the complex gradient fills etc. |
| 10:26.54 | Stephmw | yeah, I don't think my place would do SVG in any case |
| 10:26.59 | raster | it can use .svg's as source data for elements |
| 10:27.10 | raster | but it will render to a bitmap and save in as a bitmap in the .edj |
| 10:27.12 | Stephmw | so far the gfx folk have only produced photoshop->png bitmaps for the proto |
| 10:27.21 | zecke|monkeytask | raster: icon: According to the icon theme spec foo/bar should work (on unix systems) |
| 10:27.23 | raster | i could do things to inline a svg into the .edj and runtime load it etc. |
| 10:27.30 | raster | but i have not done so for performance reasons |
| 10:27.50 | raster | Stephmw: if u have photoshop stuff - and al the layers |
| 10:28.01 | raster | u can break al ot of it apart and "edje it up" into a real usabel ui |
| 10:28.12 | raster | but u will need to sit down with it for a while either in a text editor or in edje_editor |
| 10:28.35 | raster | zecke|monkeytask: k it should work for efreet - i just always use the simplest method where i can to get things up and running |
| 10:29.33 | raster | Stephmw: rememebr edje is not the be-all and end all - dont try to use it as such - u'l be disappointed |
| 10:29.33 | *** join/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@sirius.lasnet.de) |
| 10:29.39 | raster | its one thing in ana arsenal of tools |
| 10:29.54 | Stephmw | raster: yeah, not to worry about that - I'm at the study stage |
| 10:30.02 | raster | as i said - some things u'd do with widget set elements - use a widget set then |
| 10:30.12 | raster | u can customise them using edje stuff |
| 10:30.19 | raster | dont try and replace svg with it |
| 10:30.31 | zecke|monkeytask | raster: I assume that you use strcat to dirname/icon-name.extension when icon-name = "foo/bar" it should work :) |
| 10:30.36 | raster | tho i do plan on making it much more powerful via embryo |
| 10:30.44 | Stephmw | embryo? |
| 10:30.46 | raster | embryo is a tiiiiny virtual machine built on small/pawn |
| 10:30.56 | raster | the whole vm is 2k of c code |
| 10:30.59 | raster | thats it |
| 10:31.02 | raster | its also very fast |
| 10:31.23 | raster | its double the speed of sun's jvm when comapred doing the same stuff (just computation, logic, branching etc.) |
| 10:31.31 | raster | (jvm was not doing jit) |
| 10:31.44 | raster | 20x faster than perl or ruby, 40x than pythnon |
| 10:31.49 | raster | admittedly it is a bytcode enging |
| 10:31.52 | raster | no runtime parsing |
| 10:31.59 | Stephmw | how does it compare to jamvm? |
| 10:32.04 | raster | so it saves all that work for the time u compile up your production-ready .edj file |
| 10:32.10 | raster | jamvm? |
| 10:32.13 | raster | dunno |
| 10:32.28 | Stephmw | http://jamvm.sourceforge.net/ |
| 10:32.48 | raster | i only compared to c, java, perl, ruby, python, bash at the time (as i had to go write the same code in al the languages to test) |
| 10:32.58 | raster | it has no jit |
| 10:33.05 | raster | so its interpeting bytecode al the time |
| 10:33.12 | raster | its about 7 times slower than compield c |
| 10:33.17 | Stephmw | it also beats Sun's VM in certain tests - hence my question |
| 10:33.17 | raster | so u dont want to do too much in it |
| 10:33.25 | raster | but it was intended for gluing gui logic together |
| 10:33.31 | Stephmw | aye, I believe Rob is addint a JIT |
| 10:33.46 | *** join/#openmoko tobmaster (n=tobmaste@gw.sinnerschrader.com) |
| 10:33.48 | Stephmw | *anyway*, I don't use it, so it's just curiousity for now |
| 10:33.51 | raster | but i doubt i'll replace it |
| 10:34.05 | raster | i spent a lot fo time researching and a fair bit of effort went into makign embryo portable |
| 10:34.12 | raster | we built it on small/pawn |
| 10:34.22 | raster | so i guess its here to stay for now |
| 10:34.28 | raster | at last for edje |
| 10:34.35 | raster | as i said - not meant for writign whole apps in |
| 10:34.38 | raster | simple c-like logic |
| 10:34.56 | raster | eventually i'll allow edje objects to be entirely built form embryo code |
| 10:35.03 | raster | so basically u provide an create() callback |
| 10:35.07 | raster | and a resize() allback |
| 10:35.08 | raster | for example |
| 10:35.11 | raster | and a message() callback |
| 10:35.24 | raster | and otherwise u create all elements in code and mange their layout |
| 10:35.27 | raster | it'd be fine for that |
| 10:35.41 | raster | zecke: oh sorry - yes - we would use that |
| 10:35.50 | raster | we also will add extensions like .png etc. to go hunting |
| 10:37.17 | zecke | raster: according to the spec, anyway I will find out now |
| 10:37.19 | Stephmw | raster: thanks for the explanation |
| 10:40.53 | raster | Stephmw: np :) |
| 10:41.51 | Stephmw | raster: I'll include it in the study if I can, but there are more mature tools around atm that will probably get more attention |
| 10:41.59 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 10:42.30 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@rt94.highlink.ru) |
| 10:42.59 | buz | can anyone from the uk suggest a good prepaid offer for someone who's there for 4 months? |
| 10:43.18 | buz | or alternatively say from whom to stay away |
| 10:43.54 | XorA | buz: need gprs? |
| 10:43.59 | buz | dont think so |
| 10:44.02 | Stephmw | buz: ask again in #mobitopia as well ;) |
| 10:44.09 | XorA | buz: then they are all about the same in the UK |
| 10:44.17 | buz | so it doesnt really matter? |
| 10:44.39 | XorA | buz: unless there is a special offer on at the moment, they all seem to run pretty much the same on costs |
| 10:44.55 | buz | ok thx |
| 10:45.01 | XorA | buz: slight variations on per minute/sms to make it hard to compare |
| 10:45.07 | XorA | buz: just to be annoying |
| 10:45.12 | buz | yeah same in switzerland :P |
| 10:45.28 | buz | also one company now wants 0.12EUR setup cost per call |
| 10:45.31 | buz | suckers |
| 10:46.04 | XorA | buz: which part of uk? |
| 10:46.08 | raster | Stephmw: h something like flash is much mroe mature - but as such it is of a very different bent. other than that it depends what you want to do |
| 10:46.11 | buz | metro london |
| 10:46.19 | Stephmw | raster: right |
| 10:46.47 | Stephmw | raster: the brief for the study is first and foremost: closed-source need not apply |
| 10:46.50 | XorA | opposite end from me |
| 10:47.04 | Stephmw | buz: you'll be in my neck of the woods ;) |
| 10:47.38 | Stephmw | raster: although I'm sure flash will be supported for youtube |
| 10:47.40 | raster | Stephmw: aaaah |
| 10:47.58 | raster | Stephmw: then again - depends what u want. |
| 10:48.11 | raster | verything coms with a price of some sort |
| 10:48.13 | raster | runtime |
| 10:48.16 | raster | "compile time" |
| 10:48.19 | raster | design-time |
| 10:48.22 | raster | learningpnew-tools time |
| 10:48.23 | raster | etc. |
| 10:48.36 | raster | some things pose mroe limits on u than others |
| 10:48.39 | raster | or different kinds |
| 10:48.46 | raster | again - "dpeends what u want to do" |
| 10:48.47 | raster | :) |
| 10:48.52 | Stephmw | it's always that case |
| 10:48.55 | *** join/#openmoko florian_ (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 10:51.37 | zecke | raster: I need a fish slap, copying my .desktop file to /usr/share/app-install/desktop is not enough? |
| 10:51.50 | raster | hmnmmmm |
| 10:52.12 | raster | it should be /usr/share/applications |
| 10:52.55 | zecke | interesting, I stopped my find /usr/share -name '*.desktop' too early |
| 10:53.10 | raster | hehwhwhw |
| 11:01.15 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@kensentme.xs4all.nl) |
| 11:02.07 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@140.78.42.149) |
| 11:05.18 | zecke | raster: hehe, I'm the first to put a () into the Exec line, and it doesn't work... |
| 11:05.42 | raster | hmmm |
| 11:06.06 | raster | e has an escaper that escapes chars like ( |
| 11:06.19 | raster | and ) |
| 11:06.20 | *** join/#openmoko infernixx (i=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 11:06.22 | raster | and a bunch of others |
| 11:06.28 | raster | so it becomes \( |
| 11:07.25 | zecke | raster: yeah, doing that right :) |
| 11:07.37 | raster | so what is up? |
| 11:09.17 | *** join/#openmoko xcasex (n=xcasex@clients.udk.se) |
| 11:10.27 | XorA | ouch |
| 11:10.40 | XorA | ScaredyCat: blame zecke for webkit |
| 11:10.42 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@61.16.248.242) |
| 11:11.23 | zecke | ScaredyCat: still using gopher? get over it... |
| 11:17.59 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@LPuteaux-151-42-19-56.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:18.03 | zecke | raster: http://paste.lisp.org/display/56852 I just copied some files into the applications dir |
| 11:19.13 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.static.se.wasadata.net) |
| 11:20.29 | ScaredyCat | 2 guys in red shirts die in the attempt |
| 11:21.58 | zecke | raster: done I can launch snake from illume... it is ready to ship by any standards |
| 11:22.53 | raster | zecke: "it compiles. ship it!" |
| 11:23.31 | raster | zecke: what did u get that bt on? |
| 11:23.48 | zecke | raster: I copied new files to /usr/share/applications :) |
| 11:23.48 | raster | desktop? |
| 11:24.00 | raster | hmmm |
| 11:24.00 | zecke | raster: yes the enli* process |
| 11:24.12 | zecke | raster: they might not have had a Categories :) |
| 11:24.15 | raster | seems it picked up the change - the file monitoring worked |
| 11:24.29 | raster | but its screwing up in re-doing the illume app list |
| 11:24.31 | raster | hrrrm |
| 11:24.33 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@84-255-246-158.static.t-2.net) |
| 11:24.42 | raster | unlikely not a .desktop file content issue |
| 11:24.44 | zecke | raster: yeah, monitoring is working |
| 11:24.46 | raster | even if it is - e shouldnt segv |
| 11:25.06 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@195.23.92.2) |
| 11:25.39 | raster | give me a bit |
| 11:25.49 | raster | i'm updating my neo with all new packages and config |
| 11:26.27 | zecke | raster: sure, I'm able to restart e myself for now :) |
| 11:28.55 | *** part/#openmoko krish (n=krish@59.93.55.154) |
| 11:35.00 | raster | zecke: crap. i dont get valgrind to complain |
| 11:35.04 | raster | i added a .desktop |
| 11:35.35 | zecke | copy a bunch of them |
| 11:36.37 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2CF32.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:36.48 | raster | thats what i normally do |
| 11:36.53 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 11:36.56 | raster | i pit things in ~/.local/share/applications |
| 11:37.19 | raster | and ~/.local/share/icons |
| 11:37.53 | zecke | ah cool, already setup by someone ;) |
| 11:38.09 | raster | :) |
| 11:39.03 | raster | hmmm |
| 11:39.08 | raster | no valgrind complaints |
| 11:39.31 | raster | i added 10 .desktop files |
| 11:39.32 | raster | then deleted |
| 11:39.38 | raster | valgrind is happy as a pig in mud |
| 11:39.54 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@vnsecurity.net) |
| 11:40.22 | raster | right now all i can say is "update efl , e and illume - and build them again ans see if it happens still" |
| 11:49.09 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03zecke * r4172 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-browser2/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 11:49.09 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 2008-03-05 Koen Kooi <k.kooi@student.utwente.nl> |
| 11:49.09 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Keep track of the API changes. |
| 11:49.09 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 11:49.09 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * src/browser-data.h: |
| 11:49.11 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * src/current-page.c: |
| 11:49.15 | CIA-16 | openmoko: (current_back_clicked_closure): |
| 12:03.22 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 12:03.42 | emdete | raster: time for a question? my gui does not work on gta02 with SoftwareX11_16 engine - do you know why? |
| 12:06.48 | raster | emdete: does not work? |
| 12:06.50 | raster | thats strange |
| 12:06.57 | raster | other than the 16bit engine not being there... |
| 12:06.58 | raster | ? |
| 12:07.14 | raster | 16bit enigne works here |
| 12:07.25 | emdete | the SoftwareX11 works fine. same code on gta01 works fine also |
| 12:07.40 | raster | no reason for it not to work on an 02 |
| 12:07.50 | emdete | its just shouting at me without telling me what went wrong |
| 12:07.51 | raster | software-wise its identical from the evas, engine etc. point of view |
| 12:08.12 | raster | are u missing the software_16 engine(s) |
| 12:08.12 | emdete | perhaps a missing package... but which? |
| 12:08.13 | raster | u need 2 |
| 12:08.17 | raster | geenric and the x11 |
| 12:08.23 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edistar@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:08.24 | emdete | ..have both |
| 12:08.39 | raster | are u sure? |
| 12:08.45 | raster | did ecore_evas build with support? |
| 12:09.31 | emdete | ipkg list_installed | grep libevas-engine- |
| 12:09.31 | emdete | libevas-engine-buffer - 0.9.9.041+cvs20080117-r2 - Evas module buffer |
| 12:09.31 | emdete | libevas-engine-fb - 0.9.9.041+cvs20080117-r2 - Evas module fb |
| 12:09.31 | emdete | libevas-engine-software-16 - 0.9.9.041+cvs20080117-r2 - Evas module software-16 |
| 12:09.34 | emdete | libevas-engine-software-16-x11 - 0.9.9.041+cvs20080117-r2 - Evas module software-16-x11 |
| 12:09.38 | emdete | libevas-engine-software-generic - 0.9.9.041+cvs20080117-r2 - Evas module software-generic |
| 12:09.41 | emdete | libevas-engine-software-x11 - 0.9.9.041+cvs20080117-r2 - Evas module software-x11 |
| 12:09.44 | emdete | libevas-engine-xrender-x11 - 0.9.9.041+cvs20080117-r2 - Evas module xrender-x11 |
| 12:10.00 | raster | and did ecore build with suport |
| 12:10.01 | emdete | it's the moko underground build from mickey that works fine on the gta01 |
| 12:10.07 | raster | ecore_evas has to have had it enabled |
| 12:10.10 | raster | and found the headers |
| 12:10.23 | raster | no reason for it to not work on a gta02 |
| 12:10.30 | raster | its still x11 |
| 12:10.36 | raster | same thing as far as evas is concerned |
| 12:10.36 | emdete | that are exactly the packages of the rootfs you saw |
| 12:11.05 | emdete | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:11.41 | *** join/#openmoko krish (n=krish@59.93.55.154) |
| 12:12.24 | raster | again - it should work |
| 12:12.28 | raster | no reason for it not to work |
| 12:12.30 | emdete | again: it does not |
| 12:12.37 | raster | it works here on my gta02 |
| 12:12.47 | emdete | with _16? |
| 12:12.51 | raster | yes |
| 12:13.03 | raster | xrender, 16 and the default software_x11 |
| 12:13.33 | emdete | xrender and software_x11 works here too... want to see the logs? |
| 12:13.44 | emdete | i think some package is missing... |
| 12:14.13 | raster | softeare-16-x11 needs software-16 |
| 12:14.18 | raster | thats about it |
| 12:14.23 | raster | beyond ecore_evas building with support |
| 12:15.14 | emdete | :/ |
| 12:15.24 | emdete | maybe mickey|zzZZzz packages are broken? |
| 12:15.47 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrod (n=Crfrod@88.214.193.26) |
| 12:16.29 | raster | maybe |
| 12:16.33 | raster | i build my own pkgs |
| 12:16.45 | raster | direct from my own devel tree |
| 12:16.58 | emdete | i also, but they where ready this morning ... i will try those :D |
| 12:16.59 | raster | that way as i modify code i can build pkgs withotu waiting for anoncvs checkout goop |
| 12:17.36 | raster | i will put my .bb's in illume |
| 12:17.41 | raster | in svn |
| 12:17.41 | raster | soon |
| 12:17.57 | emdete | hey, nice! i want to see that on my neo. |
| 12:19.05 | Sup3rkiddo | anyone know where i can see some screenshots of illume? |
| 12:19.22 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-215-221.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 12:19.42 | raster | Sup3rkiddo: u cant |
| 12:19.43 | raster | .. yet |
| 12:19.50 | raster | i am fixing up default config stuff |
| 12:19.56 | raster | now the theme doesnt look like arse |
| 12:20.01 | Sup3rkiddo | oh...ok... |
| 12:20.05 | emdete | raster: dont u have it running on you neo? |
| 12:20.06 | raster | i just need to make a tarball of config that will "work" |
| 12:20.11 | raster | emdete: i do |
| 12:20.12 | ccfly | now I want to see it as well :> |
| 12:20.23 | emdete | just use my script... ;) |
| 12:20.26 | ccfly | it's a mass psychology thing :> |
| 12:20.32 | raster | but i dont want to show it off until i fix it up and have all the same config availabel for others to use |
| 12:20.40 | Sup3rkiddo | ooh..ok |
| 12:21.41 | emdete | raster: just a screenshot...! :D |
| 12:22.52 | raster | emdete: when i'm ready :) |
| 12:22.54 | emdete | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_scap |
| 12:22.55 | raster | soon - i hope |
| 12:23.14 | raster | battery is in the wrong spot and i have no way to move it where it should be |
| 12:23.18 | raster | so i am adding that feature in |
| 12:23.42 | raster | dont need that |
| 12:23.46 | raster | i can screenshot it from xephyr |
| 12:23.52 | emdete | okay... |
| 12:23.53 | raster | as i do all my dev in xephyr in a window |
| 12:23.57 | raster | its identical |
| 12:23.58 | ScaredyCat | cat /dev/fb0 >file.raw |
| 12:24.06 | raster | be patient |
| 12:24.07 | raster | :) |
| 12:24.23 | emdete | raster: we aren't ;) |
| 12:26.39 | raster | :-P~ |
| 12:27.04 | ScaredyCat | well? |
| 12:27.08 | ScaredyCat | where is it then |
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| 12:29.58 | raster | busy doing code soi can move my gadgets on my neo ... as i only have 1 mouse button |
| 12:29.59 | raster | :) |
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| 12:30.05 | madwoota | you're going to need patience with raster ... jsut ask him about e17 :P |
| 12:31.02 | Man_of_Wax | what are username and password for amstrong gta1 qemu image? |
| 12:33.49 | raster | yay! |
| 12:33.50 | raster | at last |
| 12:34.23 | raster | now i should be able to move my gagdets around |
| 12:34.57 | raster | rebuilding... |
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| 12:37.41 | wildfire | raster, how many gadgets? 7 or ... ? |
| 12:38.17 | raster | wildfire: yo yo! k! |
| 12:38.19 | raster | ak |
| 12:38.20 | raster | :) |
| 12:38.26 | raster | hehe |
| 12:38.34 | raster | only 2 gadgets.... |
| 12:39.00 | raster | i should bring my camera to do a proper vid of it running |
| 12:39.03 | raster | will do that tomorrow |
| 12:39.07 | raster | maybe tonight... |
| 12:42.28 | raster | what i |
| 12:42.53 | raster | what i'd love to know is why libtool decides to install the posix shell wrapper scritps and not the executables for modules builds |
| 12:42.55 | raster | hrrrm |
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| 12:50.47 | raboof | how do openmoko and qtopia relate? are they 2 separate projects that happen to run on the openmoko hardware? or will they be 'combined' in some sense eventually? |
| 12:54.34 | mjr | there is apparently some work to integrate qtopia apps into the more general openmoko environment |
| 12:54.37 | mjr | going on |
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| 13:07.42 | zecke | raboof: OpenMoko Inc. is a company and Qtopia is a product of Trolltech/Nokia |
| 13:09.15 | raboof | zecke: yeah, I understand it at that level :) |
| 13:11.35 | ccfly | well it's quite probable that OpenMoko will not adopt or modify Qtopia and will be limited to integration of Qt applications into OpenMoko |
| 13:12.11 | ccfly | so ye they are separate project with some common interoperability interests |
| 13:12.15 | ccfly | yes |
| 13:12.16 | ccfly | typos |
| 13:12.28 | ccfly | and no they will not combine per se |
| 13:13.34 | zecke | actually I do get paid to make illume and qtopia apps have babys... |
| 13:13.57 | ccfly | ;..; tell us more |
| 13:14.16 | zecke | ccfly: no, I blog, write mails and have a site in the wiki... |
| 13:14.57 | ccfly | even better |
| 13:15.00 | ccfly | found it |
| 13:16.05 | zecke | and I'm happy to answer specific questions |
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| 13:36.15 | raster | ok |
| 13:36.18 | raster | u demanded screenshots |
| 13:36.20 | raster | http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/ |
| 13:36.21 | raster | bam |
| 13:36.28 | raster | svn contains all u need to get it running yourselves |
| 13:36.29 | raster | :) |
| 13:37.00 | raster | emdete: svn for illum contains the /bb's i use to build everything too |
| 13:37.04 | raster | well modified versions |
| 13:37.10 | raster | ut should work for others this way |
| 13:37.12 | raster | but |
| 13:37.13 | raster | anyway |
| 13:37.13 | raster | done |
| 13:37.15 | raster | time to go |
| 13:37.25 | zecke | raster: where to get your theme from? |
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| 13:40.13 | raster | zecke: its in the "untar me from root" |
| 13:40.22 | raster | if u want to use it on your desktop just untar fro $HOME |
| 13:40.27 | raster | u'll get an etc/ dir |
| 13:40.31 | raster | u can delete that |
| 13:40.38 | raster | and some sample icons and .desktop files for apps |
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| 13:43.53 | ScaredyCat | raster: does your .bb not checkout from svn then |
| 13:43.53 | ScaredyCat | ? |
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| 13:44.28 | raster | ScaredyCat: nup |
| 13:44.35 | raster | ScaredyCat: as i explained |
| 13:44.42 | raster | i build OFF my local workign dirs |
| 13:44.51 | raster | i dont need to commit then check out again |
| 13:45.01 | raster | so when i build - i build everything i have right now |
| 13:45.12 | raster | it is a setup for me to speed my life up |
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| 13:47.20 | raster | i could go modify them i guess to do full cvs:// whatver checkout uri's |
| 13:47.30 | raster | but i kept them as close as possible to my current setup |
| 13:47.40 | raster | that can change later |
| 13:49.39 | ScaredyCat | jk |
| 13:49.41 | ScaredyCat | -j |
| 13:49.44 | ScaredyCat | just k |
| 13:50.18 | raster | i was just getting the info up as soon as i could in a vaguely digestible format |
| 13:50.26 | raster | it can be cleaned up a bit later |
| 13:50.32 | raster | stil have theme work to do to make the theme less sucky |
| 13:50.48 | ScaredyCat | :) |
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| 13:59.38 | pyknite | hi |
| 13:59.48 | maroi | hy pyknite |
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| 14:55.41 | summatusmentis | does the 1973/FreRunner have multi-touch type functionality? |
| 14:55.57 | XorA | summatusmentis: no |
| 14:56.33 | summatusmentis | XorA: iPhone does |
| 14:56.35 | summatusmentis | kind of |
| 14:56.59 | XorA | summatusmentis: used one? all reports and personal experience show that was a marketing claim not backed up by working hardware :-) |
| 14:58.10 | spydon | This echo thing, was that a hardware issue? |
| 14:58.27 | summatusmentis | yeah, I have used one, I like the pinching/scrolling thing |
| 14:58.55 | summatusmentis | outside of that, I don't think there is that much else, save for the interface 'flicking/scrolling' thing |
| 14:59.16 | summatusmentis | s/pinching\/scrolling/pinching\/zooming/ |
| 14:59.40 | summatusmentis | that's not clear |
| 14:59.50 | summatusmentis | there's pinching to zoom, and flicking to scroll |
| 15:00.53 | XorA | summatusmentis: in the apple store in london when I player with one, it seems to be very hit or miss whether the damn thing responded to prods :-) |
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| 15:01.04 | Any_Key | morning |
| 15:01.15 | XorA | summatusmentis: that day I learned to love my HTC more |
| 15:01.31 | summatusmentis | XorA: which HTC? |
| 15:01.39 | XorA | summatusmentis: TyTNII |
| 15:01.53 | summatusmentis | hrm... |
| 15:02.11 | Any_Key | to my shame i'm failing to run make flash-qemu-local |
| 15:02.15 | summatusmentis | so 1973/FreeRunner doesn't have anything like the iPhone interface for zooming/etc? |
| 15:02.31 | Any_Key | with: qemu: fatal: Trying to execute code outside RAM or ROM at 0x00000000 |
| 15:02.54 | XorA | summatusmentis: well I suspect it will run clutter, and clutter has all those goodies with single touch :-) |
| 15:03.09 | summatusmentis | clutter? hrm |
| 15:03.19 | Any_Key | any suggestions? |
| 15:03.28 | XorA | summatusmentis: openhand do clutter |
| 15:06.01 | summatusmentis | ok, cool |
| 15:06.05 | summatusmentis | Thanks XorA |
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| 16:02.09 | summatusmentis | is there a way to chroot into openmoko from angstrom(on a Zaurus C3200), and test images that way? |
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| 16:04.26 | ScaredyCat | we can flick with the neo... |
| 16:05.37 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: referring to my earlier question? |
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| 16:07.21 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 16:07.45 | summatusmentis | oh, ok |
| 16:07.56 | summatusmentis | I was just curious, not trying to hate on OM/FreeRunner |
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| 16:12.55 | ScaredyCat | have you not seen the 'inertial scrolling' ? |
| 16:14.01 | summatusmentis | no, I don't have a machine, and qemu is slow |
| 16:14.52 | ScaredyCat | ahhh ok... didn't realize... |
| 16:15.02 | ScaredyCat | ya you can flick long lists |
| 16:15.12 | summatusmentis | that's why i ask random questions relating to the interface every now and again :-) |
| 16:15.27 | summatusmentis | is that based on hardware? or is it all software? |
| 16:15.34 | ScaredyCat | all software... |
| 16:15.38 | ScaredyCat | this in on gta01 |
| 16:15.46 | ScaredyCat | (that's what I have) |
| 16:15.51 | summatusmentis | right, can I get a version of OM for the Z? |
| 16:16.03 | summatusmentis | I suppose I have to build it |
| 16:17.35 | ScaredyCat | well, I guess so, it's called the finger controll or something.. |
| 16:17.58 | ScaredyCat | pretty sure it would complile for anything, including the desktop |
| 16:18.19 | summatusmentis | getting kinda fed up w/ angstrom, wondering about testing OM on my Z |
| 16:18.25 | ScaredyCat | I have an x86 demo app somewhere ... it's crap, but it demo's it |
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| 16:19.41 | Sup3rkiddo | mokofingerscroll |
| 16:19.42 | Sup3rkiddo | ? |
| 16:20.15 | ScaredyCat | ya |
| 16:20.22 | ScaredyCat | summatusmentis: ... |
| 16:20.28 | ScaredyCat | http://buildhost.automated.it/ |
| 16:20.46 | ScaredyCat | http://buildhost.automated.it/fingerscroll.tar.gz |
| 16:20.57 | summatusmentis | ScaredyCat: cool |
| 16:21.20 | summatusmentis | I think I'll probably just build an entire OM image, and try to chroot into it or something on my Z |
| 16:21.21 | ScaredyCat | that's not mine... I just found it in on my hdd |
| 16:23.55 | Xx13 | does anyone know if latest uImage-2.6.24 snapshot has the USB host patch in? |
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| 16:49.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1252 has been created by mickey(AT)openmoko.org |
| 16:49.02 | cdbot2 | * * usb0 no longer comes up if booting with usb plugged in |
| 16:49.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1252 |
| 16:50.47 | Sup3rkiddo | ouch |
| 16:53.11 | summatusmentis | anyone around who has built OM for the Zaurus? |
| 16:54.12 | summatusmentis | could I just set my current DISTRO setting in OE to openmoko, instead of Angstrom? |
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| 17:03.01 | Any_Key | I'm failing to run make flash-qemu-local on Debian sid, x-86, make flash-qemu-official runs well. log in http://pastebin.ca/929229 |
| 17:03.20 | Any_Key | is somebody have this error? |
| 17:03.30 | Any_Key | or can help? |
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| 17:07.50 | spydon | netsplit? |
| 17:08.02 | Aria | Yes |
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| 17:09.31 | summatusmentis | OH GOD! |
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| 17:27.32 | `pwgen` | hello |
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| 17:27.48 | summatusmentis | hi `pwgen` |
| 17:28.19 | `pwgen` | is somebody here that feels resposible for pyneod/ undergreoundimage ? |
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| 17:32.06 | wurp2 | `pwgen`: emdete and mickeyl made it, I think |
| 17:32.25 | wurp2 | mostly emdete |
| 17:32.45 | wurp2 | Can anyone answer a stupid chroot question? |
| 17:33.08 | wurp2 | On my neo, "chroot /home/root/chroot /bin/ls" says "/bin/ls not found" |
| 17:33.11 | *** part/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=jts@nylon.morris.umn.edu) |
| 17:33.17 | wurp2 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:33.18 | `pwgen` | wurp2: ask .. |
| 17:33.33 | `pwgen` | wrong binary * |
| 17:33.36 | `pwgen` | wrong binary ? |
| 17:33.39 | wurp2 | (as does /bin/ls, of course) |
| 17:33.52 | thos | isn't ls built into busybox? |
| 17:33.59 | wurp2 | Which binary? /home/chroot/bin/ls is a copy of /bin/ls |
| 17:34.10 | wurp2 | Yes, but I also copied /bin/busybox into the chroot bin |
| 17:34.19 | `pwgen` | missing busybox .. does the link point to an runable binary ? |
| 17:34.22 | wurp2 | I need to check loaded libs |
| 17:34.41 | wurp2 | sec; I'll bet it's dynamic libs that are missing, and I'm just getting a weird error msg |
| 17:34.45 | `pwgen` | ldd ls ( if ldd works ) |
| 17:35.37 | balrog-kun | you need to copy the libs too, otherwise yes it gives a unobvious error message |
| 17:35.38 | wurp2 | ldd not there |
| 17:35.42 | wurp2 | but strace will do the trick |
| 17:36.05 | `pwgen` | nearly the same .. does /bin/busybox give you output ? |
| 17:36.23 | wurp2 | sec, copying libs |
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| 17:36.56 | `pwgen` | try a mount -o bind /lib /media/card/chhroot/libs ... |
| 17:37.49 | `pwgen` | bind mount will work across chroot ( nice for getting the dev directory in your choot ) |
| 17:38.48 | wurp2 | well, the issue is that it's the chroot for the gllin OABI hack |
| 17:38.58 | wurp2 | so the libs may or may not be compatible :-( |
| 17:39.16 | wurp2 | My real problem is that I applied the 2.6.24 kernel hack to my gllin, but it dies after about 3 seconds |
| 17:39.26 | `pwgen` | emdte/mikeyl: where can i report bugs related to pyneod ? |
| 17:40.25 | wurp2 | `pwgen`: I think the code is on freesmartphone.org |
| 17:40.41 | wurp2 | `pwgen`: But I don't think underground is really far enough along to take bug reports |
| 17:41.11 | wurp2 | Or there would be a flood of stuff like 'no UI to shut off neo', etc |
| 17:41.33 | wurp2 | `pwgen`: Or you could leave it in emdete's talk section on his wiki page |
| 17:42.03 | `pwgen` | i know ... i was able to do 1 excatly 1 call (:-(( no recieving ... and no second call |
| 17:42.17 | wurp2 | agh |
| 17:42.43 | `pwgen` | but i think useing python/dbus is a VERY good approach |
| 17:43.03 | eugeneoden | wurp2: i think its dying because 2.6.24 changed up the /sys fs structure for powering on the gps chip. there's a hack here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gllin |
| 17:43.19 | wurp2 | I built a little python dbus walker that I used to put the DBus docs up on the wiki |
| 17:43.26 | wurp2 | eugeneoden: Yeah, I applied that hack |
| 17:43.35 | wurp2 | eugeneoden: Using the sed on my Ubuntu box |
| 17:44.03 | wurp2 | grep -l indicates that sed at least made the change from /sys/ to /s/s/, and the /s/s/ files exist |
| 17:44.11 | wurp2 | But gllin still dies :-/ |
| 17:44.12 | eugeneoden | ah, ok. |
| 17:44.56 | wurp2 | Gotta go. Still no chroot love, but thanks for the suggestions. |
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| 17:53.52 | gamin | eugeneoden: gllin is dying because it is not powered up |
| 17:54.02 | gamin | so you just need to power it up |
| 17:54.21 | eugeneoden | gamin: works for me - was just speculating why it wasn't working for wurp2 |
| 17:54.24 | ScaredyCat | yes, it'll be the fic -> neo is the /sys/...blah |
| 17:54.37 | ScaredyCat | names changed |
| 17:55.08 | gamin | echo "power_up" > /sys/bus/platform/devices/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/neo1973-pm-gps.0/power_sequence |
| 17:55.19 | gamin | that brought it back to life for me |
| 17:55.22 | eugeneoden | cool |
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| 17:56.08 | gamin | before I had the same problem that the gllin script just died |
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| 17:56.35 | gamin | next time you see wurp2, tell him |
| 17:56.48 | eugeneoden | ok, thanks |
| 17:57.45 | gamin | anyone running tangogps on the neo here? |
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| 18:02.13 | PBeck | hi |
| 18:05.04 | gamin | Hi PBeck |
| 18:05.22 | PBeck | hi gamin |
| 18:08.02 | spydon | xcasex, Swedish? :P |
| 18:08.18 | xcasex | yes ;D |
| 18:08.34 | spydon | nice ^^ |
| 18:08.48 | zash | swedes everywhere |
| 18:08.58 | xcasex | zash: of doom? |
| 18:09.03 | zash | DOOM! |
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| 19:13.14 | jmichel | Does anyone know the state of the libmoko libraries? |
| 19:13.27 | jmichel | Are they usable and where is the doc? |
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| 19:26.22 | XorA|gone | ScaredyCat: was is libspiff that was busted or openmoko-mediaplayer2???? |
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| 20:21.41 | XorA | who wrote om-mediaplayer2 again? |
| 20:21.51 | thomasg | abraxa_, |
| 20:22.10 | XorA | abraxa_: you still working on media player? |
| 20:22.18 | XorA | thomasg: cheers? |
| 20:22.25 | XorA | s/?/!/ |
| 20:23.13 | abraxa_ | XorA: I will rewrite it after helping mickey with the middleware stack |
| 20:23.53 | XorA | abraxa_: I think it needs added an AC_LANG_CPLUSPLUS to beggining of configure.ac |
| 20:24.11 | abraxa_ | XorA: Oh? Why that? |
| 20:24.19 | XorA | abraxa_: it links with C++ libraries |
| 20:25.20 | abraxa_ | XorA: Oh, I wasn't aware that that macro needed to be included even if no C++ source was to be compiled... want me to add it then? |
| 20:25.39 | XorA | abraxa_: well I was all ready to, I just didnt want to do it without chatting first |
| 20:25.59 | XorA | abraxa_: its because g++ needs to be used as the linker not gcc |
| 20:26.00 | abraxa_ | XorA: I certainly don't mind, so go ahead and thanks for the heads-up :) |
| 20:26.58 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03graeme * r4173 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-mediaplayer2/configure.ac: |
| 20:26.58 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Add an AC_LANG_CPLUSPLUS as we link with C++ libraries and therefore need |
| 20:26.59 | CIA-16 | openmoko: to use g++ as a linker |
| 20:27.08 | abraxa_ | Cheers |
| 20:27.25 | XorA | abraxa_: no probs, new OE stuff exposed lots of that sort of wierdness |
| 20:27.45 | abraxa_ | Awesome :) |
| 20:29.46 | XorA | abraxa_: with my gst-pulse hack media player performs well |
| 20:30.30 | abraxa_ | XorA: That was you? mickey didn't remember who it was, so glad to know. I still do wonder how you figured that one out, however |
| 20:30.43 | XorA | abraxa_: the usleep(500) |
| 20:30.46 | abraxa_ | Yup |
| 20:30.54 | XorA | abraxa_: lots and lots of code reading |
| 20:31.10 | abraxa_ | No profiling? |
| 20:31.18 | abraxa_ | That's how I would've assumed you had done it |
| 20:31.24 | XorA | abraxa_: no, all through code inspection |
| 20:31.32 | abraxa_ | My respect :) |
| 20:31.41 | XorA | abraxa_: and about 2 hours before I went on hols so I had to email mickeyl to get him to check |
| 20:31.58 | XorA | abraxa_: well I have advantage, I wrote the sound driver so I know it wasnt me that cocked it up :-) |
| 20:32.18 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 20:32.45 | abraxa_ | Either way, good job |
| 20:32.57 | abraxa_ | It sure helped convince us that PA is indeed the right thing to use |
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| 20:33.33 | XorA | but basically I workd out pulse was dealing with each byte of audio and spending long time busy looping, the usleep(500) just allows us to build up a buffer of free bytes, making memcpy more efficient |
| 20:34.33 | XorA | I started at something usleep(10000) and worked down until it stopped skipping |
| 20:35.20 | abraxa_ | Any idea what Lennart says about the change? |
| 20:35.37 | XorA | abraxa_: waiting for mickey|sports to go to bossa, didnt manage to catch lennert at FOSDEM |
| 20:35.50 | abraxa_ | Ahh okay |
| 20:35.57 | abraxa_ | Thought one of you had mailed him |
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| 20:36.23 | XorA | it just annoyed me that day |
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| 21:06.28 | CM | abraxa_: Evening :) |
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| 21:26.49 | abraxa_ | Heya CM :) |
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| 21:26.56 | CM | :) |
| 21:28.25 | abraxa_ | Making "way too much" cash as well, I hope! |
| 21:28.40 | abraxa_ | Otherwise I'd wonder if it's worth it ;) |
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| 21:29.16 | CM | Hehe, well, making more than I ever have before at least :) |
| 21:29.41 | CM | Also, living together with someone takes a lot of time too, but I'm surely not complaining... ;) |
| 21:32.02 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 21:32.12 | abraxa_ | Glad you're happy then |
| 21:32.52 | abraxa_ | I myself haven't been able to do much for OM as of late either, though that's changing finally |
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| 21:42.39 | CM | abraxa_: School calming down? :) |
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| 21:46.12 | rortalo | hello |
| 21:47.06 | abraxa_ | CM: Somewhat - mainly it was labs, exams, preparations for marriage, visa and life planning in general that kept me busy |
| 21:47.52 | rortalo | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:51.11 | abraxa_ | rortalo: No idea, sorry |
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| 21:51.48 | rortalo | does it work for you? (I'm using MokoMakefile) |
| 21:53.16 | Ghiottone | hi #openmoko |
| 21:53.39 | summatusmentis | hey there Ghiottone |
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| 21:58.20 | ScaredyCat | XorA|gone: it's basically most of oe that's broken |
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| 22:39.44 | XorA|gone | ScaredyCat: not anymore, openmoko-devel-image builds apart from webkit |
| 22:39.53 | XorA|gone | ScaredyCat: and I cant be arsed finding errors in that mess |
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| 22:54.13 | zedstar | has anybody done a simple helloworld autoconf bitbake recipe.....i dont really understand the do_install part when it comes to an autoconf build and wanted a simple example |
| 22:55.46 | XorA|gone | zedstar: do_install() just calls make DESTDIR=${D} install |
| 22:56.45 | zedstar | xora...ive seen some recipes that use autoconf with no do_install part...what happens then? |
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| 22:58.00 | XorA|gone | zedstar: do_install is supplied by autotools.bbclass |
| 22:58.25 | zedstar | ah ok....so specifying it just overrides that? |
| 22:58.30 | XorA|gone | zedstar: yes |
| 22:58.57 | zedstar | ah so a basic example probably needs no do_install |
| 22:59.02 | XorA|gone | zedstar: a good autotooled .bb is two lines, SRC_URI = and inherit autotools |
| 22:59.27 | XorA|gone | zedstar: OE will do all the rest itself, when you see more stuff than this we are working around problems |
| 22:59.57 | zedstar | ah ok cool...so just 2 lines would do a basic autoconf project |
| 23:00.03 | XorA|gone | zedstar: yes |
| 23:01.37 | zedstar | thanks xora.....is there a way to get a list of all receipes on oe or just get from openembedded/packages/... |
| 23:02.25 | XorA|gone | zedstar: find -name "*.bb" is pretty much the only way |
| 23:03.03 | zedstar | i wanted to try and package some open source search engine tool 'estraier' but wanted to make sure nobody else had done the work....it is simple autoconf build so in theory should be easy |
| 23:03.52 | XorA|gone | zedstar: hopefully so :-) |
| 23:03.56 | XorA|gone | anyway I am off |
| 23:04.03 | zedstar | ok thanks for the info |
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