| 00:00.13 | AndiM | mwester: nice. keep those "device screwed" stories coming, that way I know where to possibly look :) |
| 00:00.33 | AndiM | anrp: nope, I suppose that's what I should do soon :P |
| 00:00.54 | anrp | you say second request... maybe you don't release it properly the first time? |
| 00:01.10 | anrp | and i mean a general you, i've no idea what you're doing |
| 00:01.11 | AndiM | anrp: but the first request already timeouts. |
| 00:01.14 | anrp | oh |
| 00:01.20 | mwester | Hehe - that's the sum total of my experience -- I messed up the bus on an ixp4xx-based device and locked up the i2c just by writing to the wrong registers on a peripheral chip. |
| 00:01.33 | anrp | maybe error handling is non-working |
| 00:01.38 | anrp | i.e. can't recover from a bus error |
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| 00:02.04 | AndiM | anrp: that's what some posting about weird i2c-pxa reset handling hints at. |
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| 00:05.18 | AndiM | anrp: posting at http://www.spinics.net/lists/arm-kernel/msg32067.html |
| 00:05.32 | AndiM | anrp: however attempting this didn't help either. |
| 00:07.00 | anrp | well... I don't have that hw |
| 00:07.13 | anrp | but are you sure its an lm81? is there some other gpio/power controller that needs to enable it? |
| 00:07.19 | anrp | a shutdown line not being set? |
| 00:07.20 | anrp | etc |
| 00:09.06 | anrp | also LM81 is SMBus, not I2C, so its not strictly compatible |
| 00:09.15 | anrp | maybe try setting an option somewhere that tries < 100kHz operation |
| 00:09.18 | anrp | if you aren't already |
| 00:09.23 | AndiM | anrp: nope, that's just a posting mentioning reset issues, not my issue. |
| 00:09.43 | anrp | er, i meant for you |
| 00:09.52 | anrp | no ack -> device not working -> might be off/disabled |
| 00:09.59 | anrp | but also, do check the bus speed |
| 00:11.08 | AndiM | anrp: ah, right, that's the important question: if i2cdetect does find a device at address 0x60 and 0x7c [<-- reserved address], then this means both devices are powered-up, right? (but i2cdetect also has interrupt timeout issues but somehow manages to grab _some_ data) |
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| 00:13.05 | anrp | reserved by who? |
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| 00:13.56 | anrp | 7c isn't reserved according to smbus spec |
| 00:14.12 | xcasex | ScaredyCat, latest qtopia build seems broken |
| 00:14.19 | anrp | er, wait |
| 00:14.20 | anrp | sorry |
| 00:14.33 | AndiM | anrp: linux has a range check for 0x03..0x77 as valid addresses |
| 00:14.53 | anrp | that's not quite correct |
| 00:14.57 | anrp | but it should be close enough |
| 00:15.05 | anrp | do you know the address of the chip specifically? |
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| 00:15.26 | AndiM | sure, 0x60 (FM radio) and 0x7c (FM amplifier) |
| 00:15.40 | anrp | er, the lm81 |
| 00:15.53 | AndiM | anrp: why would I care about lm81? |
| 00:15.58 | anrp | oh wait |
| 00:16.04 | anrp | urgh confusing you again |
| 00:16.07 | AndiM | :) |
| 00:16.58 | anrp | are you on some custom hardware ? |
| 00:16.59 | AndiM | the next thing I'm going to do is see whether I have better luck with 0x60. |
| 00:17.26 | AndiM | anrp: nope, stock Motorola E680. |
| 00:18.33 | anrp | and you can't talk to the LM4857 ? |
| 00:19.01 | AndiM | indeed, nothing. lots of timeouts. and alsamixer hangs when I try to access those controls, due to i2c timeouts. |
| 00:20.11 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03werner * r4045 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (fix-pcf50633-LOWBAT-kill-init.patch series): (log message trimmed) |
| 00:20.11 | CIA-16 | openmoko: fix-pcf50633-LOWBAT-kill-init.patch |
| 00:20.11 | CIA-16 | openmoko: (Corrected a & vs. == precedence inversion.) |
| 00:20.11 | CIA-16 | openmoko: From: Andy Green <andy@openmoko.com> |
| 00:20.12 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Until now the driver treats LOWBAT as a fatal crisis and responds |
| 00:20.14 | CIA-16 | openmoko: by going postal on init. But the driver didn't think that we can |
| 00:20.15 | anrp | 7c does seem to be the LM4857, the other choice would be 0x7e |
| 00:20.16 | CIA-16 | openmoko: have adapter or USB power and no battery, which is fine. |
| 00:21.52 | anrp | and it does support 400khz operation |
| 00:22.28 | anrp | so...that brings me back to checking for a shutdown of some sort |
| 00:22.45 | anrp | the lm4857 has a specific power pin for i2c so that might be sourced from the pxa |
| 00:22.56 | anrp | or something else |
| 00:24.20 | anrp | flaky operation could easily be caused by the lm4857 sourcing power from the i2c data lines inadvertantly if the i2c power is disconnected |
| 00:25.16 | anrp | and with that |
| 00:26.35 | AndiM | anrp: thanks a lot for your incredibly detailed explanations! That was much more than I ever hoped to find here! |
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| 00:29.13 | AndiM | anrp: that i2c power pin does sound quite plausible. |
| 00:31.54 | AndiM | bye! |
| 00:32.01 | anrp | good luck D: |
| 00:32.19 | AndiM | yeah, hopefully I'll figure it out soon. |
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| 00:40.33 | balrog-kun | some pictures of the gta02 if anyone's hungry for pictures, http://picasaweb.google.com/balrogg/RandomGeekery |
| 00:40.42 | balrog-kun | it still looks identical to gta01 though ;) |
| 00:41.15 | anrp | identical? |
| 00:41.20 | anrp | maybe on the outside |
| 00:41.34 | balrog-kun | yeah |
| 00:41.46 | anrp | what's the camera for though D: |
| 00:42.05 | balrog-kun | that's a different device :p |
| 00:43.28 | sbeh | I WANT TO HOLD IT IN MY HANDS, NOW!!!! |
| 00:43.47 | anrp | i'd wait and see if hw bugs are ironed out :/ |
| 00:45.49 | CVirus | the lucky bastard ... 2 Neos |
| 00:49.22 | balrog-kun | with two you can have twice as much gsmd crashes as with one Neo ;) |
| 00:49.34 | balrog-kun | *as many |
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| 02:03.34 | wurp2|away | ljp: Can you tell me where the contacts are stored in qtopia? |
| 02:03.44 | wurp2|away | I'd like to back them up to my PC via scp |
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| 03:07.01 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03werner * r4046 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.24.x/patches/ (gta01-dehang-printk.patch series): (log message trimmed) |
| 03:07.01 | CIA-16 | openmoko: This is a temporary work-around Mike Westerhof for this bug: |
| 03:07.01 | CIA-16 | openmoko: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 |
| 03:07.01 | CIA-16 | openmoko: See also |
| 03:07.01 | CIA-16 | openmoko: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-February/000804.html |
| 03:07.05 | CIA-16 | openmoko: gta01-dehang-printk.patch: |
| 03:07.07 | CIA-16 | openmoko: - drivers/serial/s3c2410.c (s3c24xx_serial_console_putchar): disable flow |
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| 03:10.37 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03werner * r4047 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-gta02.patch: |
| 03:10.38 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Recent GTA02 have 256MB of NAND. Use them ! :-) |
| 03:10.38 | CIA-16 | openmoko: uboot-gta02.patch: |
| 03:10.38 | CIA-16 | openmoko: - board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c (dynpart_size): sized don't need to add up to |
| 03:10.38 | CIA-16 | openmoko: exactly the nominal size |
| 03:10.38 | CIA-16 | openmoko: - board/neo1973/gta02/gta02.c (dynpart_size): changes size of rootfs from 128MB |
| 03:10.42 | CIA-16 | openmoko: to 256MB |
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| 04:30.20 | doc|home | can someone ban him please? |
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| 05:19.37 | dbmoodb | hi ah any reason why on the openmoko wiki aac isn't listed as a format ... |
| 05:19.41 | dbmoodb | legal or ... |
| 05:20.44 | summatusmentis | dbmoodb: straight aac? or apple drm'd aac? |
| 05:21.12 | dbmoodb | straight aac |
| 05:21.20 | dbmoodb | dur is there any other real kind ? |
| 05:21.34 | dbmoodb | ;) |
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| 05:23.57 | summatusmentis | I don't honestly know. It's very likely possible to do |
| 05:24.08 | summatusmentis | I don't know about legality for distributing it though |
| 05:24.14 | dbmoodb | never mind - just spotted Supported formats should include *.ogg, *.flac, *.mp3, *.wma, *.m4a |
| 05:24.58 | summatusmentis | :-) |
| 05:25.09 | dbmoodb | so next question - will video playing be possible and not drain too much of the battery (given driver for the gpu at the present time) |
| 05:26.05 | summatusmentis | I think the plan is for it to be possible, I'm not sure about battery usage. I assume it'll be viable |
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| 05:26.36 | ewon | I got to handle a GTA02 yesterday |
| 05:26.42 | ewon | smaller than I expceted |
| 05:26.44 | ewon | *expected |
| 05:26.45 | dbmoodb | yeah - nice ... really |
| 05:26.52 | summatusmentis | have you seen the GTA01 ewon? |
| 05:27.02 | dbmoodb | ah yeah i actually have |
| 05:27.17 | dbmoodb | :) slug meeting |
| 05:28.09 | ewon | summatusmentis: yeah |
| 05:28.17 | dbmoodb | oh ops |
| 05:28.19 | ewon | I was at SCALE over the weekend, openmoko had a booth |
| 05:28.27 | dbmoodb | sorry i'm tired i missed that - you said ewon - sorry to be rude there |
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| 05:30.02 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03werner * r4048 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/mknor: root device is mtdblock6, not mtdblock5. |
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| 07:21.33 | rwhitby | morning |
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| 07:22.00 | rwhitby | ahven: you had a problem report? |
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| 08:16.14 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 08:18.27 | *** mode/#openmoko [+o Ganneff] by ChanServ |
| 08:18.44 | *** mode/#openmoko [+b *!*@205.151.111.9] by Ganneff |
| 08:18.52 | *** mode/#openmoko [-o Ganneff] by Ganneff |
| 08:20.08 | doc|home | finally! :) |
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| 08:49.55 | ruskie | http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/02/10/zzzphone_offers_custom_handsets/ <-- nice... |
| 08:54.24 | doc|home | can it run linux with wifi? |
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| 08:57.43 | Seb` | ls |
| 08:57.46 | Seb` | oups |
| 08:58.27 | buz | no wifi it seems :( |
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| 09:04.18 | doc|home | pffft, no deal! :) |
| 09:07.24 | buz | looks fishy all around :P |
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| 09:18.21 | ClimDan | Cool Dating Club site ===> new-datingclub eu |
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| 09:41.08 | ScaredyCat | and then why whoever added it, didn't bother to test the build |
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| 09:50.52 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: do they ever test the build? |
| 09:51.16 | ScaredyCat | probably not... |
| 09:51.56 | ScaredyCat | though, to me, that's the bit you do before you commit the change... but hey |
| 09:52.45 | ScaredyCat | it's especially simple to spot a problem when nothing provides the dependancy you added... |
| 09:54.11 | buz | http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/10/sonyericsson-xperia-x1-qwerty-with-windows-mobile/ but why windows whyyyyy? |
| 09:54.19 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: ah, but probably something does provide the dependency |
| 09:54.38 | cesarb | ScaredyCat: only that the "something" is a .bb which is local to the developer's machine |
| 09:54.41 | ScaredyCat | it doesn't cesarb |
| 09:54.45 | ScaredyCat | ahh yes.. well |
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| 10:06.17 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 10:06.20 | ScaredyCat | "All zzzPhones work anywhere in the world except for Europe, according to the release." |
| 10:06.42 | ScaredyCat | that's cos us Europeans use that newfangled technology |
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| 10:12.16 | dcordes | ScaredyCat: i.e. gsm? |
| 10:12.26 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 10:12.50 | ScaredyCat | maybe it's specially for mwester - 850mhz only ;) |
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| 10:28.29 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4049 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (9 files in 3 dirs): opkg: move tests into a separate directory |
| 10:30.14 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4050 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (Makefile.am configure.ac etc/): opkg: remove redundant etc directory |
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| 10:36.27 | mohamed | I need to install uclibc toolchain any one has an idea? |
| 10:36.55 | Gottox | mohamed: buildroot |
| 10:39.04 | mohamed | Gottox: I tried to use buildroot but the following error arises http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/55589/ |
| 10:41.24 | Gottox | this looks like an error in buildroot itself. maybe the buildroot guys can help you. |
| 10:43.47 | mohamed | Gottox: do they have an IRC channel? |
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| 10:50.30 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4051 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/ (6 files in 4 dirs): opkg: distcheck fixes |
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| 11:38.44 | florian | hi all |
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| 12:23.07 | mohamed | the following command doesn't boot the kernel could you please help me |
| 12:23.09 | mohamed | qemu Âm 32 Âhda rootfs.img Âkernel linux-2.6.15/arch/i386/boot/bzImage -append "root=/dev/sda clock=pit" |
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| 12:47.57 | hrw | mohamed: add "-serial stdio" and "-append "console=ttyS0" |
| 12:50.43 | mohamed | hrw: in addition to the previous command? |
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| 12:52.44 | hrw | yes |
| 12:52.55 | hrw | ofcourse merge your -append and mine |
| 12:55.57 | mohamed | hrw: the same nothing changed, have a look http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/55599/ |
| 13:00.42 | hrw | qemu -m 32 -hda rootfs.img -kernel linux-2.6.15/arch/i386/boot/bzImage -serial stdio etc? |
| 13:02.03 | mohamed | hrw: the same as well !! |
| 13:06.47 | hrw | ;( |
| 13:07.02 | hrw | ata0 master: QEMU HARDDISK ATA-7 Hard-Disk (0 MBytes) |
| 13:07.10 | hrw | check your rootfs.img |
| 13:07.13 | mohamed | hrw: sorry, it worked as qemu -m 32 -hda rootfs.img -kernel linux-2.6.15/arch/i386/boot/bzImage -serial stdio -append "root=/dev/sda clock=pit console=ttyS0" |
| 13:08.34 | mohamed | hrw: but it stops after uncompressing linux (Uncompressing linux.....OK, booting the kernel) |
| 13:11.21 | hrw | then check kernel |
| 13:14.08 | mohamed | hrw: I've omitted the console=ttyS0 part it continued to work, but the kernel says cannot open root device |
| 13:14.38 | hrw | then check how does it recognize kernel? |
| 13:15.26 | mohamed | hrw: sorry, how could I do this job? |
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| 13:15.40 | hrw | mohamed: by reading kernel output etc |
| 13:15.49 | hrw | I lack time to hold your hand |
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| 14:50.07 | ScaredyCat | sdfghjk |
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| 14:52.18 | gi-el | ScaredyCat: roger. |
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| 16:09.00 | *** topic/#openmoko is http://openmoko.org | Buy Neo1973 at http://direct.openmoko.com | New version is the FreeRunner (with WiFi...) maybe due March. Official status: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates |
| 16:09.10 | jadams_ | SpeedEvil: don't know if anyone was aware, as I haven't really pushed it or anything since it's mostly boring for the neo crowd |
| 16:09.22 | jadams_ | the big benefit to me is simply the rss reader on the neo is good enough, and I love supporting oss |
| 16:09.48 | jadams_ | and we already have one because I bought a devphone as soon as I possibly could (but missed the first batch because I was on vacation when they were released and my partner forgot to buy it...) |
| 16:09.51 | user01 | i thought it was going to be quad band . . . looks like it is tri-band now? |
| 16:09.56 | anrp | tri band :/ |
| 16:09.58 | wurp2|away | Anyone happen to know if there's a way to force Qtopia into fast charge? |
| 16:10.08 | anrp | no 850 (== limited for cingular in the us) |
| 16:10.13 | SpeedEvil | user01: spec issues |
| 16:10.27 | jadams_ | right now I'm waiting on my neo to revive from battery slumber, meh |
| 16:10.29 | SpeedEvil | user01: it was always specified to teh hardware people as triband |
| 16:10.44 | SpeedEvil | user01: however. That's not what the software people thought |
| 16:11.01 | SpeedEvil | Combine that with most of the initial testers were where there was no 850... |
| 16:11.19 | anrp | indeed |
| 16:11.52 | user01 | oh i c |
| 16:12.01 | anrp | i wonder how i can revive my neo, its been sitting for months not plugged in |
| 16:12.11 | anrp | i can hook the battery to a lab supply i guess |
| 16:12.16 | user01 | i live in 850 world if they ever want me to test :) |
| 16:12.23 | anrp | a lot of people do |
| 16:13.05 | SpeedEvil | anrp: plugging it in to USB for several hours should work |
| 16:13.07 | jadams_ | anrp, I think you can take the battery out for a few minutes, then plug it up for ~1 hour and THEN power on (not before, or it'll just discharge again) |
| 16:13.13 | jadams_ | that's always worked for me before |
| 16:13.15 | user01 | there will probably be more bands once the fcc sells off more of the spectrum |
| 16:13.22 | jadams_ | yeah, do kill it first by leaving the battery out for a while |
| 16:13.28 | jadams_ | or it'll keep drawing as you charge |
| 16:13.32 | SpeedEvil | jadams_: I don't think that's needed if you've left it on |
| 16:13.37 | SpeedEvil | For months that is |
| 16:13.46 | SpeedEvil | as the battery internal protection will have cut in |
| 16:13.58 | jadams_ | ahh |
| 16:14.01 | jadams_ | k |
| 16:14.20 | anrp | 0.0 volts! |
| 16:14.30 | SpeedEvil | andred_: it does that |
| 16:14.34 | SpeedEvil | anrp: |
| 16:14.37 | user01 | is it still in development phase? everytime i go to the site it says "end of the year" but that was since last year |
| 16:14.41 | SpeedEvil | anrp: it's not 'real' 0v |
| 16:14.46 | anrp | i know |
| 16:14.57 | SpeedEvil | user01: the .com site needs updating. |
| 16:15.18 | SpeedEvil | user01: unfortunately, the key to the server room was eaten by a dolphin when one of the developers was swimming. |
| 16:15.35 | wurp2 | user01: You know that there is supposed to be an 850 version of the '02/FreeRunner when it comes out? |
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| 16:15.48 | user01 | wurp2, nope |
| 16:15.58 | wurp2 | Well, now you do :-) |
| 16:16.01 | user01 | SpeedEvil, at least it wasnt the manatees |
| 16:16.15 | wurp2 | It will still be tri-band, but there will be two versions (or so I was told when I got my '01) |
| 16:16.27 | wurp2 | maneating manatees |
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| 16:18.02 | tooo | Hi |
| 16:18.06 | user01 | so is the neo ready for consumer use then? |
| 16:18.12 | wurp2 | nope |
| 16:18.15 | tooo | is it possible to optimize its Neo to consume less energies ? |
| 16:18.30 | SpeedEvil | tooo: being done |
| 16:18.39 | wurp2 | user01: Even when the FreeRunner hardware first comes available, it will not be ready for consumer use |
| 16:18.42 | SpeedEvil | tooo: current work looks like it'll hit at least a 12 hour time |
| 16:18.52 | wurp2 | user01: They will still need lots of software updates to hit that mark |
| 16:18.55 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: unless there are extended delays in freerunner |
| 16:19.29 | user01 | where is the neo as far as development then . . . like a beta? |
| 16:19.39 | SpeedEvil | user01: basically, yes |
| 16:19.40 | *** join/#openmoko wirrwarr (n=fz@ppp-88-217-59-35.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 16:19.46 | SpeedEvil | user01: maybe even alpha |
| 16:19.50 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: You really think that they might take that long to put together the hw, without also having enough delays in sw to prevent it from being ready when hw comes out? |
| 16:19.57 | SpeedEvil | user01: beta hardware, alpha software. |
| 16:20.13 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: I doubt it |
| 16:20.22 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: but who knows. |
| 16:20.56 | jadams_ | if my neo doesn't wake from its slumber soon I'm killing someone |
| 16:20.58 | SpeedEvil | I wouldn't put it _utterly_ beyond the bounds of possibility that someone else brings out a OM phone before freerunner |
| 16:22.17 | anrp | that wouldn't really accomplish much |
| 16:22.22 | wurp2 | Yeah, sw is definitely alpha, not beta |
| 16:22.32 | SpeedEvil | anrp: yeah - I know. |
| 16:22.34 | wurp2 | beta means you think it might all be OK, except some minor stuff |
| 16:22.59 | wurp2 | sw has many fairly major known flaws |
| 16:23.51 | SpeedEvil | I don't know if I'd call it alpha. |
| 16:24.00 | vininim | from reading openmoko-kernel mailing list major hardware bugs are being dealt |
| 16:24.10 | vininim | i expect freerunner to arrive soon |
| 16:24.13 | SpeedEvil | Alpha usually means that the software is basically there but with major bugs or omissions. |
| 16:24.35 | SpeedEvil | Not that whole huge chunks are entirely missing. |
| 16:24.37 | user01 | well the page back in october said the project was in alpha so hopefully some of it has moved to beta :) |
| 16:24.59 | SpeedEvil | Some apps are beta maybe. |
| 16:25.09 | SpeedEvil | or alpha rather |
| 16:25.48 | SpeedEvil | anrp: 0.5C is probably a better plan |
| 16:25.58 | SpeedEvil | But 1A won't kill it |
| 16:26.07 | anrp | well i just want enough to get it booted |
| 16:26.14 | anrp | and if i fry it, hey i've got two of em |
| 16:28.03 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: To me, if it's usable, and it's released, it's alpha |
| 16:28.17 | wurp2 | and it is both |
| 16:28.26 | wurp2 | power management is not alpha - it's nonexistant :-( |
| 16:29.02 | anrp | *cough* *sputter* |
| 16:29.27 | *** join/#openmoko magumbade (n=magumbad@p5497D8DE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:29.33 | vininim | I read that they solved some serious bug that makes the pmu usable now |
| 16:29.43 | anrp | anyway now its charging on the neo which is good |
| 16:29.45 | wurp2 | anrp: Just don't let the magic smoke out |
| 16:29.51 | vininim | (gta02 anyway) |
| 16:29.54 | anrp | didn't take long to resurrect... |
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| 16:31.06 | anrp | but thats only cause i could charge the battery outside of the device :/ |
| 16:31.48 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@logan.freelock.com) |
| 16:33.28 | anrp | so...how do i turn off the backlight to get it to charge faster |
| 16:34.13 | anrp | oh, echo 1 > power did it |
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| 16:41.53 | tooo | what about removing services ? would it economize more power ? |
| 16:42.14 | SpeedEvil | what do you mean? |
| 16:42.15 | anrp | my phone doesn't even have a sim card atm so there's not much more to turn off |
| 16:42.16 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 16:42.18 | anrp | i could slow down the cpu i guess |
| 16:42.22 | SpeedEvil | yes, you can turn crap off |
| 16:42.48 | ljp | wurp2: in the devtools entry on the application grid, there should be an entry 'fast charge' |
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| 16:46.42 | tooo | i mean, if i disable useless services, i could gain a little bit more autonomy, no ? Did someone already dug this way ? |
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| 16:46.59 | SpeedEvil | define services |
| 16:47.35 | SpeedEvil | The primary drain at the moment is the complete lack of power managment |
| 16:47.41 | SpeedEvil | That's being worked on. |
| 16:48.03 | tooo | unix services such as sshd, nntpd, etc... (i know, i will not disable ssh,it was a service example) |
| 16:48.11 | SpeedEvil | irrelevant |
| 16:48.18 | SpeedEvil | they don't cause any power drain |
| 16:48.39 | anrp | well they probably cause a microscopic average increase |
| 16:48.42 | anrp | due to cpu load |
| 16:48.46 | anrp | buts its effectively zero |
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| 17:03.07 | anrp | 3.8 volts now |
| 17:06.15 | *** join/#openmoko infernixx (i=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 17:06.41 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@84.18.144.39) |
| 17:08.32 | mohamed | hi all, I was running a compiled kernel using qemu with the command qemu -m 32 -hda rootfs.img -kernel linux-2.6.15/arch/i386/boot/bzImage -serial stdio -append "root=/dev/sda clock=pit" but the following error arises http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/55617/ |
| 17:08.35 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@84.18.144.39) |
| 17:08.39 | mohamed | any help? |
| 17:10.32 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@84.18.144.39) |
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| 17:20.40 | wurp2 | ljp: Thanks! |
| 17:21.07 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@84.18.144.39) |
| 17:21.41 | mohamed | I used the command qemu -m 32 -hda rootfs.img -kernel linux-2.6.15/arch/i386/boot/bzImage -serial stdio -append "label=/dev/sda clock=pit" but the kernel says http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/55617/ |
| 17:21.46 | mohamed | any help? |
| 17:22.24 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@84.18.144.39) |
| 17:22.57 | anrp | label=/dev/sda seems suspect |
| 17:24.30 | mohamed | anrp: I used root=/dev/sda as well |
| 17:25.19 | mohamed | anrp: I also changed clock=pit by console=ttyS0 |
| 17:28.01 | sbeh | ...qemu does not support sat |
| 17:28.17 | sbeh | -hda is /dev/hda in the virtual environment |
| 17:28.22 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 17:28.34 | sbeh | s/sat/sata/ |
| 17:28.42 | jadams_ | is ScaredyCat's build still the preferred one for most people? |
| 17:28.51 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@e180234130.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:28.53 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 17:28.55 | jadams_ | I'm flashing this sucker with a new image and want to know what to use... |
| 17:30.14 | mohamed | sbeh: so should I replace root=/dev/sda by root=/dev/hda? |
| 17:30.43 | sbeh | mohamed: there is no /dev/sda in qemu, because qemu does not have virtual sata-devices |
| 17:31.33 | mohamed | sbeh: you mean that I can't emulate the kernel using my hardware devices ?? |
| 17:32.48 | *** join/#openmoko larry (n=larry@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:34.36 | sbeh | i mean what i say |
| 17:35.08 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@dsbg-4db7b11c.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 17:35.10 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@63.84-49-135.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:35.19 | sbeh | your host-system does then communication with your hardware, qemu is a userland-process |
| 17:37.37 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-152-1-66-251.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:40.07 | *** join/#openmoko error0327 (n=error032@cust-219-86-244.static.bezeqint.net) |
| 17:41.07 | error0327 | can any one help me i tray to install linux on a pocket pc mio 338 |
| 17:41.17 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@kensentme.xs4all.nl) |
| 17:41.39 | sbeh | do not ask to ask, just ask |
| 17:41.43 | error0327 | i like the openmoko so i can install it on the mio 338 ? |
| 17:42.19 | error0327 | sbeh,you know how to do that ? |
| 17:42.50 | sbeh | no |
| 17:43.13 | error0327 | i can install a basic shell one it ? |
| 17:43.34 | error0327 | any think but not the windows mobile |
| 17:44.20 | *** join/#openmoko Valnar (n=Miranda@ip-62-143-211-37.PH-1411C-BSR64K-01.ish.de) |
| 17:44.28 | error0327 | who is the experts here ? can any one do that ? |
| 17:45.18 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 17:46.08 | error0327 | sbeh, is it always like that here ? no one answer |
| 17:47.13 | sbeh | noone whould give you shell-commands, you need to try it by your own and come back with real error-messages |
| 17:48.34 | error0327 | but i dont now haw to do that |
| 17:48.55 | error0327 | because that i am asking here !!! |
| 17:49.25 | sbeh | then be prepared, that you will get no help here |
| 17:49.39 | error0327 | were i can get help |
| 17:50.08 | error0327 | etha smhet bleez saedne , maa b3ref oen ablesh |
| 17:51.14 | error0327 | sbeh,can you help me to start ? |
| 17:51.20 | sbeh | no |
| 17:51.53 | error0327 | sbeh,you now were i can get help to start ? |
| 17:52.09 | error0327 | *know |
| 17:52.54 | sbeh | i dont think, that you will get/find any usefull help with that approach |
| 17:52.55 | error0327 | i am a linux user ok i am using debian testing but i never do that on a pocket pc |
| 17:53.28 | error0327 | good frinds can do that |
| 17:54.23 | wurp2 | sbeh: Wrong, someone will help if they know how |
| 17:54.40 | wurp2 | error0327: When you ask and no one replies, it means no one reading right then knows how :-( |
| 17:55.01 | wurp2 | Or they don't have time to help at the moment |
| 17:55.38 | error0327 | ok so a room of openmoko help dont know how to install the system openmoko |
| 17:55.50 | wurp2 | error0327: I think that from where you're starting, you will find that a difficult task |
| 17:56.07 | wurp2 | error0327: Much of what you want is particular to your hardware... |
| 17:56.30 | _diego_ | error0327, i'm not paid to do your work... What u are asking it's very time consuming |
| 17:56.41 | error0327 | because that i am asking for a basic shell at less |
| 17:57.26 | _diego_ | a basic shell, require 90% of the work required to install a linux system on a new hardware |
| 17:57.48 | error0327 | ok soo i want to get in to the world were is the files that i need to download and tray to boot on my pocket pc |
| 17:57.54 | _diego_ | u need to install (and make it work) at least a bootloader and a kernel |
| 17:58.57 | wurp2 | error0327: Someone (probably you) would have to figure out how to transfer data to your devices boot file system |
| 17:59.05 | wurp2 | And how to interface w/ all the hardware |
| 17:59.07 | error0327 | _diego_ ,soo not every pocket pc have a boot loader i must make it you say !! |
| 17:59.32 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@74.13.246.42) |
| 17:59.42 | sbeh | ... |
| 17:59.46 | wurp2 | If I were you and I were willing to spend the time (months) on it, I would start by googling for other people who have installed custom OS to your device |
| 17:59.55 | SpeedEvil | And overcome any firmware security devices or procedures |
| 18:00.06 | SpeedEvil | which may vary from trivial to nearly impossible |
| 18:00.07 | _diego_ | first of all: u need to find out what hardware it uses, find a working bootloader, find a way to flash it on the hardware |
| 18:00.21 | sbeh | error0327: maybe you should start with some more knowlegde of linux |
| 18:00.24 | _diego_ | and to be not be feared to brick it ^^ |
| 18:00.34 | *** join/#openmoko grummel (n=Grummel@p5B16FA11.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:00.39 | sbeh | error0327: linux-from-scratch is a good startpoint, if you are realy motivated |
| 18:01.07 | wurp2 | error0327: In short, what you want is a very significant task, even for someone who has ported linux to a handheld device before |
| 18:01.08 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 18:01.23 | *** join/#openmoko br3n (n=bren@79-75-226-180.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:01.34 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178254140.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:01.43 | error0327 | wurp2,but that what i am traing to do ? i am looking for some one how tray that |
| 18:02.01 | error0327 | that way i am asking every one here !!!!!!! |
| 18:02.30 | _diego_ | me think that don't really understand how difficult can be |
| 18:02.34 | SpeedEvil | Basically, unless someones got the hardware and the skills, and the motivation you're out of luck. |
| 18:02.41 | wurp2 | error0327: No one here is going to take on a task of many months because you want linux on your phone... |
| 18:02.44 | SpeedEvil | It's a _best_ several weeks of work |
| 18:03.24 | error0327 | but way it not work in all the devises |
| 18:03.27 | *** join/#openmoko renatofilho^ (n=renato@200.184.118.132) |
| 18:03.40 | wurp2 | No operating system can work in all devices... |
| 18:03.44 | SpeedEvil | Because each phone is a custom design effectively |
| 18:03.48 | SpeedEvil | not like PCs |
| 18:03.57 | error0327 | i mean like a normal computer linux |
| 18:04.00 | wurp2 | Some devices e.g. might insist on a digital signature to load any code onto them |
| 18:04.04 | wurp2 | Then you're SOL |
| 18:04.18 | SpeedEvil | PCs are misleading |
| 18:04.21 | error0327 | ok i under stand |
| 18:04.38 | SpeedEvil | historically, each computer or makers range of computers has required seperate programs for them |
| 18:04.47 | SpeedEvil | this is where the phone is at at the moment |
| 18:04.55 | wurp2 | That is an extreme case, but most handheld devices have many proprietary bits, so you have to write lots of custom code |
| 18:05.23 | SpeedEvil | proprietory bits, often with no documentation or example driver to work from |
| 18:05.26 | wurp2 | AFTER reverse engineering the software interfaces (and maybe hardware) on the phone |
| 18:06.19 | error0327 | ok but some one alrede write some kind of a basic system like unex so there is some think like that that work in all the devises ? |
| 18:06.34 | wurp2 | error0327: You're not understanding |
| 18:06.37 | SpeedEvil | No, unix works as it's manufacturer supported |
| 18:06.45 | SpeedEvil | the makers of the systems alter it to work on them |
| 18:06.46 | wurp2 | Computing is not like in the movie Independence Day |
| 18:06.55 | wurp2 | You can't just write code that you can load on an alien device |
| 18:07.12 | SpeedEvil | wurp2: No - it's like in the movie Wierd Science. |
| 18:07.17 | error0327 | ok you write |
| 18:07.36 | error0327 | wurp2,you are write |
| 18:08.19 | vininim | poetry? I don't know |
| 18:08.26 | wurp2 | error0327: Once you have drivers for all the low level hardware, and code to interface with the device & load your stuff on there, and the boot code, lots of code can be ported |
| 18:08.46 | wurp2 | but that other stuff mostly requires lots of analysis work, then custom code |
| 18:09.15 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:09.18 | error0327 | but i hope for some think because i am a linux user in a normal system so i tray to get one on mo PDA |
| 18:09.20 | mohamed | please have a look at that problem http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/55625/ |
| 18:09.25 | mohamed | any help? |
| 18:09.26 | error0327 | ok that not ease |
| 18:09.28 | error0327 | easy |
| 18:09.35 | wurp2 | error0327: You will probably have to look for already supported devices |
| 18:09.42 | error0327 | ok |
| 18:09.55 | error0327 | thanks every one |
| 18:10.08 | wurp2 | Then you will need to follow complicated instructions on some wiki somewhere and ask for help with specific error messages |
| 18:10.15 | wurp2 | Like sbeh said |
| 18:10.32 | wurp2 | error0327: If you wait a minute, I'll find you the list of supported devices for OpenMoko |
| 18:10.52 | wurp2 | Does anyone know the name of one of the supported devices so I can search for it on the wiki? |
| 18:10.53 | error0327 | i look on that |
| 18:10.53 | error0327 | no mio at all |
| 18:11.02 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@e180234130.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:11.13 | wurp2 | error0327: Yeah, your specific device is unlikely to be supported |
| 18:11.33 | wurp2 | You could google for mio + linux and see if any other linux has already been porte |
| 18:11.36 | wurp2 | d |
| 18:12.05 | wurp2 | Otherwise you're off on a quest to learn to become a software developer, with hardware interface & kernel skills, |
| 18:12.07 | error0327 | what i know that my devise use a rom to save hes system so there is a way to re write any think there ? |
| 18:12.18 | wurp2 | then after that to spend months getting your stuff to work on your device :-) |
| 18:12.28 | wurp2 | error0327: Certainly not in ROM |
| 18:12.33 | wurp2 | It is Read Only Memory |
| 18:12.52 | error0327 | i Know |
| 18:12.56 | wurp2 | EPROM you can put stuff in |
| 18:13.01 | error0327 | becuse that i am asking !! |
| 18:13.02 | wurp2 | Or you could get a ROM burner and build another ROM |
| 18:13.10 | anrp | ok, how do i force fast charge...chgmode reports "idle" and echoing fast_cccv to it does nothing |
| 18:13.13 | wurp2 | Once you understand how the device uses the ROM |
| 18:13.13 | anrp | ? |
| 18:13.25 | wurp2 | anrp: Did you echo -n ? |
| 18:13.29 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-078-042-060-129.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 18:13.29 | anrp | yes |
| 18:13.40 | PBeck | hoi |
| 18:14.16 | error0327 | so the devises that well ever work on linux must not be use a room to save the monile system |
| 18:14.27 | wurp2 | anrp: Writing fast_cccv to that file sets fast charge for me... |
| 18:14.31 | wurp2 | Oh, wait |
| 18:14.33 | wurp2 | it says idel |
| 18:14.37 | wurp2 | s/idel/idle/ |
| 18:14.45 | wurp2 | It's not recognizing your charger at all |
| 18:14.50 | error0327 | ok bye |
| 18:14.52 | error0327 | thanks |
| 18:14.53 | anrp | even though i'm talking to it over usb? :/ |
| 18:14.55 | wurp2 | Try unplugging usb & plugging back in :-) |
| 18:14.58 | wurp2 | anrp: Weird |
| 18:15.00 | anrp | i'll try that |
| 18:15.08 | wurp2 | Yeah, 'pre' is what it says when charging slowly |
| 18:15.22 | anrp | oh, that did it |
| 18:15.28 | anrp | i wonder if that's still an issue ... |
| 18:15.36 | anrp | starting with USB plugged in, it refuses to charge |
| 18:15.44 | anrp | mine is a months+ old kernel though so |
| 18:16.06 | wurp2 | I don't think kernel from daily builds on OM has changed in a long while |
| 18:16.20 | wurp2 | Well, kernel version hasn't changed... |
| 18:16.28 | wurp2 | svn changes have been committed |
| 18:16.31 | anrp | at least its charging now |
| 18:16.59 | *** join/#openmoko Grummel69 (n=Grummel@p5B16FA11.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:17.09 | *** join/#openmoko Viliam_Volos_V (i=Viliam_V@62.183.49.31.modem-pool.kuban.ru) |
| 18:17.19 | Viliam_Volos_V | hi all |
| 18:17.50 | Viliam_Volos_V | plzhelp with fonts in OpenMoko |
| 18:18.41 | Viliam_Volos_V | I install OpenMoko on HTC Magician, and i need help with rus fonts |
| 18:19.25 | *** join/#openmoko grummel (n=Grummel@p5B16FA11.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:19.58 | _diego_ | anrp, neo is recognized correctly on host pc? I've found that often the problem is on the pc side |
| 18:20.58 | Viliam_Volos_V | who work with OpenMoko and from Rus? |
| 18:21.31 | *** join/#openmoko _blinx (n=blinx@builtin.de) |
| 18:21.37 | anrp | CDC was working before from the boot |
| 18:21.46 | anrp | it just didn't recognize the fact that it could charge |
| 18:21.50 | anrp | its going now |
| 18:22.07 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 18:22.07 | anrp | Viliam_Volos_V: you really need to be more precise....what about the fonts? |
| 18:22.08 | *** join/#openmoko blinx (n=blinx@builtin.de) |
| 18:22.15 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
| 18:22.32 | _diego_ | the other reason, is that you are connecting it trough a not powered usb hub |
| 18:22.35 | Viliam_Volos_V | )) |
| 18:23.11 | Viliam_Volos_V | im install OpenMoko andhe dont anderstend Rus fonts |
| 18:23.17 | anrp | its going through a 6 inch cable to my box |
| 18:23.21 | anrp | so... no D: |
| 18:23.47 | anrp | Viliam_Volos_V: ~_? |
| 18:23.53 | Viliam_Volos_V | sory |
| 18:23.56 | Viliam_Volos_V | (( |
| 18:23.58 | CM_ | Viliam_Volos_V: balrog-kun might know something about that |
| 18:23.59 | anrp | i don't know if openmoko has really been internationalized |
| 18:24.09 | anrp | no idea if russian fonts have been tested... |
| 18:24.45 | Viliam_Volos_V | i know this but i cant reedmySMS |
| 18:25.02 | br3n | see this guys - http://openmoko.hobby-site.com/ - ha |
| 18:25.49 | anrp | :? |
| 18:26.01 | anrp | i dunno, I'd just go with about 2/3 of what sold in the first two weeks-month |
| 18:27.36 | Viliam_Volos_V | what can i do, to connect rus fonts ? |
| 18:28.07 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 18:28.32 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@84.38.64.16) |
| 18:29.49 | anrp | i'm not the right person to ask |
| 18:31.30 | jadams_ | my openmoko works, but it never shows the home screen. Just hangs on 'please wait...' I'm using ScaredyCat's latest build. |
| 18:32.40 | kdean06 | jadams_, I've personally found that ScaredyCat's images are... Problematic. |
| 18:32.41 | *** join/#openmoko xcasex (n=robert@ua-83-227-156-234.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 18:32.49 | wurp2 | jadams_: Are you doing anything funny with your home directory? |
| 18:33.10 | wurp2 | jadams_: I got that same behavior with any recent build - my home dir was a symlink to my sd card |
| 18:33.17 | wurp2 | When I undid that, it booted fine |
| 18:33.54 | wurp2 | There is some specific directory under home that's the problem, I think... symlinking the contents of /home/root to /media/card/home/root still breaks the boot |
| 18:34.17 | wurp2 | but I can symlink e.g. my bin directory and it boots fine |
| 18:34.43 | anrp | sd probably doesn't get mounted for quite a while |
| 18:34.49 | anrp | in terms of the boot |
| 18:35.40 | wurp2 | anrp: It used to work fine... |
| 18:35.52 | wurp2 | But I agree that seems the likely issue |
| 18:36.30 | anrp | what fs is on your sd card? |
| 18:36.37 | wurp2 | ext2 |
| 18:36.45 | wurp2 | on the partition I'm linking to... |
| 18:37.14 | wurp2 | I also have a fat partition which so far I haven't done anything with |
| 18:41.57 | *** join/#openmoko Tob1 (n=tobi@pD9E84DB4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 18:52.03 | *** part/#openmoko trol1 (n=dani@ppp-88-217-83-17.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:55.08 | anrp | :/ |
| 18:55.33 | anrp | wurp2: maybe worth checking fstab and seeing if "auto" is in the params for the mmcblk0pX device? |
| 18:56.09 | *** join/#openmoko Mathiasdm (n=Mathias@vpna040.ugent.be) |
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| 19:19.14 | wurp2 | anrp: Thanks for the advice; I'll do that |
| 19:19.22 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@e180234130.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:19.34 | wurp2 | Once I get OM back on my phone instead of Qtopia, and I get somewhere that I can network w/ my phone :-) |
| 19:20.05 | kdean06 | New snapshots today. :D |
| 19:20.31 | wurp2 | kdean06: Yeah, I was lamenting the lack of your review as I was looking at them yesterday :-) |
| 19:20.53 | kdean06 | When I checked yesterday, there were no new ones. |
| 19:21.09 | kdean06 | I'm surprised to see a 09 image... |
| 19:21.27 | wurp2 | I figured maybe you were taking the weekend off from your unpaid job... |
| 19:22.43 | kdean06 | Wolfgang e-mailed me on 09 Feb 2008 saying the snapshots stopped for the Chinese New Year. At that moment, I checked, there were no new ones so I took his "on Tuesday" to be the timeframe. :P |
| 19:22.59 | kdean06 | So, no 09 Feb review. :P But I'll get an 11 Feb one done. :) |
| 19:23.40 | jadams_ | my phone's hanging at 'Please wait...' |
| 19:25.09 | *** join/#openmoko jujun (n=JulienN@193.252.106.56) |
| 19:26.32 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@pcp028781pcs.wireless.calpoly.edu) |
| 19:27.05 | kdean06 | jadams_, I can confirm 100% that today's official snapshot gets beyond that. :P |
| 19:29.30 | *** join/#openmoko ccube_ (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
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| 19:37.26 | kdean06 | wurp2, You're familiar with GSM "buzz" no? |
| 19:37.42 | kdean06 | You every had speakers on and get a call come in and the speakers "buzz"? |
| 19:39.02 | *** join/#openmoko nibbo (i=nibbo@titan.blinkenshell.org) |
| 19:40.49 | *** join/#openmoko mohamed (n=chatzill@41.196.242.34) |
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| 19:49.04 | wurp2 | kdean06: Hmm... you're not talking about the 'air' sound? |
| 19:49.10 | wurp2 | From the Bypass alsa setting? |
| 19:49.24 | kdean06 | No, I'm not. This isn't Neo specific... |
| 19:49.37 | wurp2 | Hmm, I don't think I've had the buzz |
| 19:49.39 | kdean06 | The "air" sound is what you hear breathing into a microphone. :P |
| 19:50.07 | kdean06 | The buzz is what you hear from PC speakers if you set a GSM phone next to them and call the phone. My RAZR did it all the time. |
| 19:50.16 | wurp2 | Well, there's a strong air sound with the bypass turned up even if there are no notable sounds entering the mic |
| 19:50.24 | wurp2 | Ah, I don't do that :-) |
| 19:50.32 | kdean06 | Have you? |
| 19:50.37 | kdean06 | Have you EVER heard it? |
| 19:50.45 | wurp2 | I think I've heard of it |
| 19:50.56 | wurp2 | But I've never heard it on my speakers |
| 19:51.01 | wurp2 | or at least not noticed it |
| 19:51.16 | wurp2 | My speakers are distant from my desk |
| 19:51.24 | kdean06 | You're confusing me by answering questions I'm not asking. :P |
| 19:51.24 | wurp2 | a few feet away, anyway |
| 19:51.29 | wurp2 | Heh |
| 19:51.31 | wurp2 | Sorry |
| 19:51.39 | wurp2 | The answer is no, I don't think so. |
| 19:51.43 | kdean06 | Okay. |
| 19:51.50 | kdean06 | Anyone else? |
| 19:51.58 | kdean06 | wurp2, Didn't mean to be rude either. :P |
| 19:52.21 | wurp2 | NP. I misread your question the first time. Your response didn't look rude to me. |
| 19:53.27 | kdean06 | I'm not sure what's happening, but i'm getting a weird sound on my Neo, it sounds like that. I was in New Jersey buying a car this weekend and I heard it VERY loudly, so much that I couldn't use the phone. I set it down, got a coffee and then came back and the battery was totally dead. Now, I'm hearing that buzz again every now and then. |
| 19:54.17 | kdean06 | I'm not sure if my battery was dying, and so the modem wasn't working properly, or if a problem with the modem killed the battery. |
| 19:54.47 | kdean06 | But I just made a 90 second call with a full charge and the battery applet dropped to 1/3 charge. :S |
| 19:55.16 | kdean06 | So I'm not sure if there's a hardware problem or if something software wise is "broken" today. |
| 19:55.32 | wurp2 | kdean06: When was the last time you pulled the battery on your neo? |
| 19:55.53 | wurp2 | I'm just wondering if the gsm got in a bad state, and hasn't recovered because it never goes down, even if you shut down |
| 19:56.16 | wurp2 | My neo flaked out on me during a call the other day, and rebooting didn't fix it |
| 19:56.17 | kdean06 | wurp2, Yesterday. I killed the battery totally, and did the slow recharge procedure. |
| 19:56.22 | wurp2 | but pulling the battery for 10 seconds did |
| 19:56.25 | wurp2 | Ouch! |
| 19:56.55 | wurp2 | I have only ever killed my battery completely once |
| 19:57.37 | kdean06 | It seems (thinking objectively) that I've got a gsm issue. gsm flaked out, battery died. |
| 19:57.37 | kdean06 | But I'm not sure in what order. :( |
| 19:57.37 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@74.13.246.42) |
| 19:57.37 | ahven | *** Error: Package name contains illegal characters, (other than [a-z0-9.+-]) |
| 19:57.37 | ahven | ipkg-build: Please fix the above errors and try again. |
| 19:57.38 | ahven | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:57.51 | kdean06 | I don't really know what I'm talking about, but a "hunch" seems as if GSM is pulling too much juice now... Causing interference on my speakers and draining my battery too quickly. |
| 19:58.39 | kdean06 | But that doesn't compute. :P Firmware hasn't changed, kernel is the came and as I recall there's no software-side gsm power controller yet. |
| 19:59.23 | *** join/#openmoko amir (n=Miranda@gentoo/developer/amir) |
| 19:59.32 | kdean06 | So it's hardware or a bug that appeared and persisted across a kernel reflash and new rootfs. :P |
| 20:00.06 | kdean06 | Hrm... I'm going to give my Neo some time without a battery. |
| 20:02.04 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e44a429.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 20:02.49 | *** join/#openmoko Viliam_Volos_V (i=Viliam_V@62.183.49.74.modem-pool.kuban.ru) |
| 20:05.52 | Viliam_Volos_V | Ðåáÿò - åñòü êòî èç Ðîñèè? |
| 20:08.44 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@rn083002.morris.umn.edu) |
| 20:09.01 | Viliam_Volos_V | how to change rintone in openmoko? |
| 20:11.33 | *** join/#openmoko ccube_ (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 20:12.10 | *** join/#openmoko ccube_ (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 20:12.38 | kdean06 | Viliam_Volos_V, Replace /usr/share/openmoko/sounds/ringtone_classy.wav with your ringtone. There's not a way (yet) to do it using the interface or set a tone per-contact. |
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| 20:12.54 | *** join/#openmoko erko (n=eolson@madden.mcs.anl.gov) |
| 20:12.57 | Viliam_Volos_V | ok |
| 20:13.02 | kdean06 | Which is something that naggs at me. |
| 20:13.16 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 20:14.06 | Viliam_Volos_V | mp3,mwa, aac ? |
| 20:15.15 | *** join/#openmoko ccube (n=ccube@ssh.ccube.de) |
| 20:17.13 | *** join/#openmoko Aniruddha_NL (n=Aniruddh@s5590cf7b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 20:19.26 | kdean06 | I don't know, honestly. |
| 20:20.02 | kdean06 | I've never done it, thought i know at least with .wav there's no reason it wouldn't work. |
| 20:20.04 | wurp2 | aac is DRMed, isn't it? |
| 20:20.19 | kdean06 | I know the desktop wallpaper doesn't care what format it is. |
| 20:20.30 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 20:20.49 | holycow | hellow my fellow mokomonkeys |
| 20:21.12 | holycow | what is the latest availability date projection of the consumer device? |
| 20:21.29 | kdean06 | "When it's Ready" TM |
| 20:21.34 | br3n | wiki faq |
| 20:21.39 | wurp2 | see topic |
| 20:21.41 | holycow | lol! danke |
| 20:21.46 | wurp2 | heh |
| 20:22.05 | *** join/#openmoko Gwaihir (n=Gwaihir@ubuntu/member/gwaihir) |
| 20:22.18 | holycow | it's getting time for a new phoen and i'm really really not wanting a blackberry |
| 20:22.19 | wurp2 | My guess from a position of near total ignorance is mid April |
| 20:22.22 | holycow | hoping one of these comes out sooner |
| 20:22.46 | holycow | aha, looking at faq |
| 20:22.48 | wurp2 | note the words 'guess' and 'total ignorance' in that sentence |
| 20:23.37 | wurp2 | So apparently they are much more concerned in the HW validation process of the need for a different PCB than just different components needed on it |
| 20:23.57 | holycow | right right |
| 20:24.00 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@AOrleans-152-1-18-45.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:24.12 | wurp2 | Which kind of surprised me - I figured either one would require significant time to retool the assembly line |
| 20:24.15 | *** join/#openmoko Gwaihir_ (n=Gwaihir@88-149-173-250.static.ngi.it) |
| 20:24.53 | holycow | i'm surprised to hear the need for a different pcb but .... i'm no hardware engineer |
| 20:24.55 | holycow | thats fine |
| 20:25.08 | holycow | as a side note i ran into an interesting vapourware idea for a product |
| 20:25.32 | holycow | that moko might want to add into their 'interesting ideas'category |
| 20:25.52 | holycow | some company is releasing a type of cel device that you can modify for whatever use you want |
| 20:25.52 | wurp2 | Oh, they don't need a new PCB right now |
| 20:26.19 | summatusmentis | wurp2: where are you getting your infor? |
| 20:26.20 | *** join/#openmoko freelock (n=john@c-71-231-170-250.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:26.20 | holycow | so the idea is that you buy the base phone device and you can add aditional 'jackets/sleeves' for it |
| 20:26.20 | summatusmentis | -r |
| 20:26.31 | wurp2 | but they do need some different components |
| 20:26.39 | holycow | so if you needed a thumb keyboard you could add one, if you needed maybe a joystick pad or something you could add that |
| 20:26.42 | wurp2 | summatusmentis: Here and some perusal of the kernel mailing list |
| 20:26.55 | holycow | wurp2: interesting |
| 20:27.21 | wurp2 | holycow: There is a concept for a different FreeRunner case that would add that ability |
| 20:27.40 | wurp2 | The new case is ugly as sin IMO, but that might be OK if it worked well |
| 20:28.06 | wurp2 | s/new case/proposed custom case/ |
| 20:28.09 | summatusmentis | wurp2: oh, kernel mailing list. Wow, I wouldn't understand most of what was going on there |
| 20:28.15 | wurp2 | Me neither |
| 20:28.26 | wurp2 | But I can understand "adding a pullup resistor" |
| 20:28.41 | Kryczek | wurp2: (hi) i havent seen a new case... could you please give a URL? :) |
| 20:28.47 | wurp2 | and "we haven't found the need for a new PCB after v5" |
| 20:30.15 | wurp2 | Kryczek: Try searching for alternative cases on the wiki |
| 20:30.21 | wurp2 | Kryczek: wiki.openmoko.org |
| 20:30.38 | holycow | wurp2: oh they thought of that? |
| 20:30.44 | holycow | wurp2: thats v v cool |
| 20:30.54 | wurp2 | holycow: An end user did, and threw it up on the wiki |
| 20:30.59 | wurp2 | holycow: I agree |
| 20:31.04 | holycow | just awesome |
| 20:31.23 | wurp2 | The neo is very very cool for providing good standardized hardware interfaces (i2c, etc) so we can do that stuff ourselves |
| 20:31.26 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-69-104-3-183.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 20:31.32 | wurp2 | Really, that's their whole business model |
| 20:31.46 | wurp2 | Enable "the little guy" to do stuff that makes their phone more valuable |
| 20:32.31 | Kryczek | wurp2: oops, i thought i was on the #gumstix channel... sorry :p but thanks anyway! :) |
| 20:32.37 | holycow | that just rocks because all of a sudden it changes from something you buy to something you use for different things |
| 20:32.59 | wurp2 | agreed 100% |
| 20:34.05 | wurp2 | holycow: They also made the bluetooth fully functional |
| 20:34.12 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@209.195.169.219) |
| 20:34.20 | wurp2 | So saying a neo has bluetooth support is much stronger than saying phone X has bluetooth |
| 20:34.20 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 20:34.41 | wurp2 | The latter seeming to mean that you can use a bluetooth headset and maybe sync contacts with your PC |
| 20:36.49 | holycow | interesting |
| 20:37.42 | wurp2 | so your neo can be your gps brick for your laptop, or use a bluetooth phone, or could advertise itself as a mouse (where you use the touchpad) |
| 20:39.19 | erko | wurp2, i saw in the logs gprs wouldn't connect for you -- did you ever get it working? |
| 20:39.54 | wurp2 | erko: Nope |
| 20:40.00 | wurp2 | I didn't put too much work into it |
| 20:40.27 | erko | wurp2, ah, ok, just asking because I had a lot of trouble, too. Increasing the TIMEOUT from 10 to something high like 200 fixed it for me. |
| 20:40.52 | wurp2 | I tried the manual method on the wiki, then settingsgui |
| 20:41.00 | wurp2 | Cool, I'll try that. Thanks! |
| 20:41.11 | wurp2 | How was it failing for you? |
| 20:41.19 | wurp2 | Mine got to 'atz' then just bailed |
| 20:41.20 | erko | wurp2: sure, also, someone suggested to me that I try a few times in a row. |
| 20:41.53 | erko | I had some other errors, the last was a timeout after ATZ or so |
| 20:43.07 | *** join/#openmoko Pensacola (n=pensacol@i48252.upc-i.chello.nl) |
| 20:44.10 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@90.21.38.232) |
| 20:44.11 | erko | Also, I ended up using the tmobile chatscripts, only change was to increase the the timeout at the top of /etc/ppp/chatscripts/tmobile.txt |
| 20:44.14 | wurp2 | erko: OK, that sounds like my problem |
| 20:44.44 | wurp2 | Hmm, I don't think I've seen the chat scripts |
| 20:44.51 | wurp2 | Are they on the manual gprs page? |
| 20:45.03 | wurp2 | And I'm actually using AT&T |
| 20:47.40 | erko | The scripts are in a link in the APN table. I have a t-mobile account though, so I'm not sure if they'll help you. |
| 20:49.23 | *** join/#openmoko Weteor (n=Weteor@i59F626DD.versanet.de) |
| 20:49.49 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178254140.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:50.43 | wurp2 | Hey, I have a pay as you go account. On my old phone, I got a message after each call that told me how much time I had remaining. |
| 20:50.59 | wurp2 | Does anyone know how, using AT commands, to get that information? |
| 20:51.31 | SpeedEvil | It may be a SMS |
| 20:51.50 | SpeedEvil | For ecxample, I can text 'ba' to 150 and get back my credit balance |
| 20:52.23 | wurp2 | SpeedEvil: Cool, thanks! |
| 20:52.43 | wurp2 | I know I don't get an SMS automatically for that, but the phone may send a message behind the scenes. |
| 20:54.07 | jadams_ | my neo1973 won't get past the 'please wait...' screen, even though it's loaded the tray keyboard icon, etc. |
| 20:54.18 | jadams_ | and if I hold down power I get the power screen as expected |
| 20:54.25 | jadams_ | I just lack all main interface bits... |
| 20:54.52 | wurp2 | jadams_: Have you looked at dmesg output? |
| 20:55.28 | jadams_ | wurp2, lemme usbnetwork in and check it |
| 20:56.25 | *** join/#openmoko Aniruddha_NL (n=Aniruddh@s5590cf7b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 20:57.15 | *** join/#openmoko playya__ (n=playya@p508B1E68.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:58.15 | *** join/#openmoko toxx_ (n=toxx_@154-236-dsl.kielnet.net) |
| 20:58.54 | jadams_ | wurp2, dmesg: http://pastie.caboo.se/150522 |
| 21:00.47 | wurp2 | I dunno what that stuff is :-) Anyone else? |
| 21:01.19 | wurp2 | jadams_: You may get it to finish starting up if you shut down dbus & X, then start 'em back up again |
| 21:01.25 | jadams_ | also, I used the stuff from ScaredyCat's repositories |
| 21:01.29 | wurp2 | /etc/init.d/*dbus* stop |
| 21:01.37 | wurp2 | /etc/init.d/xsomething stop |
| 21:01.39 | jadams_ | can someone verify a build they're currently running successfully? |
| 21:01.40 | wurp2 | then start both |
| 21:02.27 | jadams_ | wurp2, reboots, same issue |
| 21:03.47 | jadams_ | wurp2, actually, I may need to do something in case there was a bigger image on here before, I forget |
| 21:03.48 | kdean06 | jadams_, The 31 January 2008 image has thus far been the best for me. My write up on it is -> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Snapshot_review/2008-01-31 |
| 21:04.05 | jadams_ | kdean06, thanks, I'll give it a shot |
| 21:05.50 | wurp2 | jadams_: Oh! |
| 21:06.07 | wurp2 | Yeah, if you didn't "nand erase rootfs" before you burned your image, that's almost certainly your problem |
| 21:06.24 | jadams_ | wurp2, sorry, been out of the neo game for months |
| 21:06.32 | wurp2 | Just DON'T "nand erase" ;-) |
| 21:06.40 | jadams_ | just trying to get it usable now to demo our app on it, it's an rss-driven ticketing app that should work pretty well |
| 21:06.46 | abraxa_ | jadams_: What happens if you ssh into the neo and start X by hand? |
| 21:06.54 | jadams_ | wurp2, I have a development board anyway, wouldn't I be able to recover from that with JTAG? |
| 21:07.01 | wurp2 | jadams_: Yeah |
| 21:07.10 | jadams_ | abraxa_, same brokenness, I'm flashing with that 1-31-08 image now |
| 21:07.18 | abraxa_ | Aite |
| 21:07.22 | wurp2 | It just scares me because I don't have a debug board |
| 21:07.30 | *** join/#openmoko Crfrodf (n=Crfrod@208.65.61.50) |
| 21:07.40 | jadams_ | once this is rocking I just need to write an app in python that'll accept a signature and upload it as a comment to the ticket, and it'll be pretty great |
| 21:07.45 | wurp2 | jadams_: If you didn't nand erase rootfs before you started burning, you might as well save the time to boot it |
| 21:08.19 | wurp2 | and erase rootfs and re-burn before you boot |
| 21:10.50 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish_h (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 21:11.14 | jadams_ | wurp2, I'm downloading the 1-31 images and then they'll be headed on the phone post nand erase rootfs |
| 21:17.11 | mmontour | wurp2: for the "time remaining" stuff, look up "USSD" (Unstructured Supplementary Service Data) |
| 21:18.36 | wurp2 | mmontour: Cool, thanks! |
| 21:18.57 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@r9fl187.net.upc.cz) |
| 21:19.05 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD9539C44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:21.52 | mmontour | I don't know much about USSD myself, but I've seen it mentioned here and it looks like what my carrier uses for balance-remaining messages |
| 21:23.36 | SpeedEvil | I don't know if you can get it though with the modem we hace |
| 21:25.03 | mmontour | I googled a Sony Ericsson page that mentions AT+CUSD - does the Calypso have that command? |
| 21:25.12 | *** join/#openmoko eth01 (n=foobar@wikimedia/eth01) |
| 21:26.58 | holycow | wurp2 - hey thanks for all the info dude! |
| 21:27.08 | holycow | the bluetooth this is a must for cels, i agree |
| 21:27.11 | holycow | that is so sweet |
| 21:27.27 | *** join/#openmoko duffyd (n=tim@202-74-203-187.ue.woosh.co.nz) |
| 21:27.28 | anrp | mmontour: easy enough to just try it ... |
| 21:27.42 | wurp2 | 'unlike SMS, every single GSM handset in the world supports USSD' |
| 21:27.46 | duffyd | hi all, just curious what kernel image should be used with the latest qtopia 4.3.2 image? |
| 21:27.51 | wurp2 | per http://www.truteq.com/tips/ussd/ |
| 21:27.55 | duffyd | as my one keeps on freezing each time it boots |
| 21:28.14 | duffyd | gets to the 'desktop' but then freezes with the 'hourglass' showing |
| 21:28.35 | wurp2 | duffyd: Did you 'nand erase rootfs' before you burned qtopia? |
| 21:28.46 | duffyd | no |
| 21:28.48 | wurp2 | 'cause that doesn't sound like a kernel problem to me |
| 21:28.51 | duffyd | better do that :) |
| 21:30.17 | duffyd | one other thing I would like clarification on is - can I upgrade my OM image via ipkg update && ipkg upgrade? |
| 21:31.02 | wurp2 | It's good to be scared of nand erase |
| 21:31.08 | wurp2 | Just don't forget the rootfs |
| 21:31.26 | duffyd | yup :) |
| 21:31.27 | wurp2 | I fat fingered the rootfs one time, and it just gives an error message, which is good... |
| 21:31.52 | wurp2 | er, to be extra clear, I mistyped it |
| 21:31.59 | wurp2 | leaving it off will brick you |
| 21:32.11 | duffyd | I get confused/scared by the line feed issues in cu |
| 21:32.14 | mmontour | Well, I got an "OK" from sending an AT+CUSD command through libgsmd-tool but I didn't see any other data. I'll try it directly to the modem when I get home tonight |
| 21:33.00 | wurp2 | mmontour: The docs on USSD are weird |
| 21:33.04 | wurp2 | mmontour: They seem to be written from a POV that is a cross between end user & developer |
| 21:33.21 | wurp2 | mmontour: Everything implies that you just text *XXXX#some request stuff# |
| 21:33.22 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=bmk789@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 21:33.38 | wurp2 | As in, the way you would text it with SMS |
| 21:33.43 | mmontour | BTW I recommend upgrading to the January u-boot snapshot - it fixes several bugs and should not require the "nand erase rootfs" any more. |
| 21:34.39 | wurp2 | Hmm, I'm not sure that updating uboot doesn't scare me more than having to type 'nand erase rootfs' each time... |
| 21:34.40 | kdean06 | mmontour, Just for the record, gllin is driver and not firmware, correct? |
| 21:34.41 | *** join/#openmoko Aniruddha_NL (n=Aniruddh@s5590cf7b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 21:34.50 | SpeedEvil | does that with new uboot |
| 21:35.08 | kdean06 | Actually, that should have been addressed generally, my apologies. :) |
| 21:35.18 | mmontour | kdean06: Yes, gllin is a userspace driver. |
| 21:35.43 | kdean06 | Is there a technical possibility that a libre driver could be written for that chipset? |
| 21:35.54 | toxx_ | mmontour: can you give a link to such a nice, working and safe u-boot? :-) |
| 21:36.06 | toxx_ | (or exact revision) |
| 21:36.29 | mmontour | toxx_: mickeyl posted one near the end of January. I don't have a link at the moment, but you can search the list archives |
| 21:36.41 | toxx_ | ok, thx |
| 21:36.47 | kdean06 | None of those links work anymoe! |
| 21:37.17 | kdean06 | I've checked. If I've overlooked it, please let me know. :) I'm using that version and need to link to it on my reviews. |
| 21:37.41 | mmontour | kdean06: It's technically possible, but unlikely unless some new developers join the reverse-engineering effort. It would be easy if the vendor would release docs, but that's extremely unlikely. |
| 21:38.14 | kdean06 | Neat. :) |
| 21:39.01 | kdean06 | But the Freerunner's IS libre, IIRC? I'm just trying to see if it's a technical (and legal) possibility to meet the "open" goal of OM and "user friendly" goal of consumer products or if one MUST (for technical or legal) reasons take a backseat. |
| 21:39.24 | kdean06 | But I think I have my answer. :) Thanks. |
| 21:40.36 | *** part/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@79.0.122.252) |
| 21:40.48 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@nrbg-4dbf93cc.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 21:41.01 | *** join/#openmoko Gareth_ (i=gareth@www.wiked.org) |
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| 21:45.55 | mmontour | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/ appears to have the new u-boot snapshot |
| 21:46.44 | wurp2 | mmontour: But have people tested it to verify that it's good enough for us guys w/ no debug board to install? |
| 21:47.10 | *** join/#openmoko OJW (n=OJW@87-194-198-122.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:47.14 | toxx_ | mmontour: thank you! |
| 21:48.35 | mmontour | The one that mickeyl released has been tested by several people. I think the one on buildhost is the same one but I can't 100% confirm that at the moment. Note that there is a minor issue with the splash-screen rendering in that version, but it can be safely ignored |
| 21:49.03 | kdean06 | It can be fixed. :) No ignoring needed. :D |
| 21:49.13 | kdean06 | But that's not a functional problem. |
| 21:49.26 | kdean06 | But I'm afraid to test nightlies of uBoot. :) |
| 21:50.49 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 21:50.50 | toxx_ | ok, on gta01 (and, yes, I have a dev board), install of uboot (just done) was successfull: |
| 21:50.54 | toxx_ | U-Boot 1.3.1+git0ec595243dc99edcd248bbcfbfd5a1dc860bde89+svn3817 (Jan 31 2008 - 01:55:57) |
| 21:51.01 | toxx_ | (answer to "version") |
| 21:51.24 | mmontour | For what it's worth, I have never had a problem with flashing u-boot. The only times I've needed my debug board are when I bricked the device intentionally. Of course I can't make guarantees for anyone else. |
| 21:51.55 | toxx_ | so... now I can avoid the "nand erase" part when loading a new rootfs to the phone, right? |
| 21:53.01 | mmontour | That's right - you should not need to "nand erase rootfs" with the new u-boot. |
| 21:54.16 | toxx_ | ok... I'll try the snapshot mentioned above then! unfortunately, my daily phone just broke down completely, so I now *have* to use my neo as my primary phone... |
| 21:55.43 | *** join/#openmoko Selveste1 (n=Selveste@0x50a15668.virnxx10.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 21:55.51 | mmontour | toxx_: Good luck with that. I'm still waiting for the power-management to improve before I take that step |
| 21:56.59 | wurp2 | I've been using mine as my primary |
| 21:57.10 | toxx_ | mmontour: well, that's the only issue where I think openmoko's is really needed, as the necessary kernel changes seem to be just to special (on not completely known hardware) to be done by the community |
| 21:57.29 | *** join/#openmoko Aniruddha_NL (n=Aniruddh@s5590cf7b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 21:57.29 | wurp2 | As long as you're never away from a charger for more than 4 hours, and you're willing to accept a 25% lost call rate, it's fine :-) |
| 21:57.38 | jadams_ | any movement at all on auto-gprs for the phone? |
| 21:58.07 | SpeedEvil | auto-gprs? |
| 21:58.17 | jadams_ | sure |
| 21:58.29 | jadams_ | I've got a script that auto dials my t-mobile gprs, there's a tutorial on the wiki I wrote, etc. |
| 21:58.51 | jadams_ | but I figure some gui to configure your gprs provider, with a table of known good settings for various providers, makes sense |
| 21:58.57 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@62.135.88.227) |
| 21:58.58 | SpeedEvil | the big problem ATM is the lack of multiplexer |
| 21:59.06 | jadams_ | SpeedEvil, oh yeah... |
| 21:59.11 | SpeedEvil | which means that if gprs is up, no calls incoming |
| 21:59.13 | jadams_ | well, as a single function it works well |
| 21:59.15 | jadams_ | :) |
| 21:59.31 | jadams_ | but I can see the issues there...will multiplexing work on GTA01 hardware? |
| 21:59.35 | jadams_ | I mean, in theory |
| 21:59.43 | SpeedEvil | It's solely a software thing |
| 21:59.50 | jadams_ | aha |
| 21:59.56 | jadams_ | any idea on the progress so far? |
| 22:01.56 | SpeedEvil | It's due - IIRC - June 2007. |
| 22:02.50 | *** join/#openmoko nelson (n=nelson@rrcs-72-43-17-175.nys.biz.rr.com) |
| 22:03.21 | kdean06 | lol |
| 22:03.36 | *** join/#openmoko Aniruddha_NL (n=Aniruddh@s5590cf7b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 22:05.20 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-150-153.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:07.40 | edistar | konttori: I want to run a program directly on fb |
| 22:10.28 | nelson | Is there an OpenMoko release yet? |
| 22:10.45 | SpeedEvil | It's sort of escaped on its own. |
| 22:10.52 | SpeedEvil | I's not really been released. |
| 22:11.23 | nelson | We're working on a 0.8.2 release of gnash, and would like to be able to say "gnash 0.8.2 compiled for OpenMoko $INSERT_VERSION_HERE" |
| 22:11.25 | wurp2 | nelson: You can buy the developer version of the phone and use it |
| 22:12.25 | nelson | it's well-nigh impossible for us to make a binary release for a moving target. |
| 22:13.19 | mmontour | nelson: There are date-coded snapshots like "2007.11" but they become obsolete quite quickly. |
| 22:13.23 | wurp2 | I don't think anyone is using anything other than 'moving target' versions of OM |
| 22:14.06 | wurp2 | So you could say that you compile on version X, but it wouldn't be useful to anyone AFAIK |
| 22:14.15 | nelson | hrm. then how can anybody report bugs except for "doesn't work fo rme"? |
| 22:14.38 | wurp2 | There are daily builds |
| 22:14.44 | SpeedEvil | The assumption at this point is that everyone's a developer |
| 22:14.45 | wurp2 | People report bugs against them |
| 22:14.59 | wurp2 | Then 3 days later, most people are on a different daily build |
| 22:15.47 | nelson | .... and the bug reports become useless. |
| 22:16.21 | wurp2 | nelson: Nope, almost all of the bugs last longer than that |
| 22:16.44 | nelson | SpeedEvil: hrm. well, then, I think we'll have to target a daily build and live with it. |
| 22:16.52 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 22:16.54 | SpeedEvil | nelson: how large is the gnash bin? |
| 22:17.11 | nelson | how long is the uninstalled package set kept around for a daily build? |
| 22:17.27 | SpeedEvil | The 'right' way to do it is to do the bb/oe thing. |
| 22:17.28 | nelson | (I hope the answer isn't "one day"!) |
| 22:17.54 | SpeedEvil | the packages are compiled as needed, as they change |
| 22:18.21 | nelson | 5118994 |
| 22:18.27 | SpeedEvil | and then the mokomakefile makefile compiles it into an image |
| 22:18.34 | jadams_ | DAMMIT MY FINELY TUNED CONNECT SCRIPT THAT ONCE WORKED NOW FAILS |
| 22:18.47 | SpeedEvil | jadams_: :/ |
| 22:18.57 | nelson | SpeedEvil: but .... wouldn't you be installing ipkgs on top of the base image? |
| 22:19.37 | SpeedEvil | nelson: yes - the bb recipies can as I understand it either be used to make ipkgs, or put it into the image. |
| 22:19.53 | nelson | I guess ... it seems like there are two ways to create an embedded system: build a static image on a bigger computer .... or if the computer has enough resources, allow it to install ipkgs. |
| 22:20.24 | nelson | Given that the OM has communication capability built-in, it seems to me like "base image" + ipkg feed is the way to go. |
| 22:20.36 | SpeedEvil | I've in the past installed - to the sd using ipkg-link GCC |
| 22:20.48 | SpeedEvil | and all the required libs to build little programs |
| 22:21.08 | nelson | hehe, native compilation IN YOUR POCKET! |
| 22:21.30 | nelson | "Is that gcc in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" |
| 22:21.32 | SpeedEvil | It's not actually that slow. |
| 22:21.38 | SpeedEvil | IIRC a kernel took a couple of hours |
| 22:21.41 | nelson | speed isn't the constraint. RAM is. |
| 22:22.00 | SpeedEvil | swap to SD isn't that slow. |
| 22:22.10 | nelson | You can't run out of time (well, you can die ....) but you can easily run out of RAM with gcc. |
| 22:22.45 | nelson | I don't know how flash-swap-friendly is gcc. |
| 22:22.55 | SpeedEvil | works for me. |
| 22:23.08 | SpeedEvil | The flash is a bit slow - but block acess times are good |
| 22:23.17 | nelson | until your flash chip BURNS A SMOKING HOLE IN YOUR TROUSERS. |
| 22:23.22 | nelson | :-) |
| 22:23.29 | xcasex | someone needs to take the time and do some retinkering |
| 22:23.39 | SpeedEvil | with wear leveling inherent in the chip it's not that bad. |
| 22:23.52 | xcasex | its unbearable that its this frelling unmaintainable to install one app |
| 22:24.05 | raynet | hmm.. with openmoko i could test swap over NFS over GPRS :) |
| 22:24.41 | nelson | xcasex: yeah, right now OM is good for building whole images ... but not very good for writing an application. |
| 22:24.50 | xcasex | Right |
| 22:24.54 | xcasex | and that's a damn shame |
| 22:24.57 | nelson | xcasex: basically, you need to become an OpenMoko developer in order to write even one application. |
| 22:25.17 | xcasex | Precisely which is to me unbearable |
| 22:25.33 | xcasex | i cant retool OM ever ytime i need to dry run an app. |
| 22:25.39 | xcasex | especially not when splitting time between clients. |
| 22:25.54 | *** join/#openmoko broedje (n=quirc@212.23.103.80) |
| 22:26.06 | nelson | xcasex: if there was a way to download a set of headers, library stubs, and a cross-compiler, for a fixed OM version. |
| 22:26.23 | nelson | xcasex: but I'm not sure that bb / oe gives you that option. |
| 22:26.40 | xcasex | nelson, at this point, i'd settle for a stable pmu |
| 22:26.41 | mmontour | nelson: OM did release a toolchain for developers who don't want to build the whole distribution - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain (although I haven't used it myself) |
| 22:27.17 | nelson | mmontour: for what version of OpenMoko? |
| 22:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko flexd (n=kek@37.80-203-110.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:28.14 | mmontour | Presumably whatever was "current" when the it was released, but binaries built with it should continue to work on newer systems |
| 22:28.23 | nelson | and ... once you have separately compiled applications, outside of the bb / oe world, how do you get them onto the phone? |
| 22:28.36 | nelson | Presumably with a package manager, but where does that program look for packages? |
| 22:28.49 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 22:28.58 | nelson | Can the browser handle a link to a .ipkg file correctly, by running the package manager? |
| 22:29.28 | mmontour | I don't know about the browser, but you can certainly scp a package to the phone and then "ipkg install" it from the terminal |
| 22:29.46 | zedstar | u can ipkg install http://...... |
| 22:30.17 | nelson | ja, so, then the browser just needs to know to run "ipkg install %s" when it sees a .ipkg file being downloaded. |
| 22:30.36 | nelson | and that's a pretty bog-standard thing for browsers, e.g. .pdf files. |
| 22:31.19 | Mek | although almost al browsers refuse to install/execute code they download directly, they only support saving it, as otherwise it would be a huge potential security problem |
| 22:31.45 | zedstar | ipkg supports getting it via http |
| 22:31.58 | wurp2 | Mek: How is it a security problem if they ask you if you want to run it? |
| 22:32.19 | nelson | wurp2: because confirmation becomes automatic. Habituation rules the day. |
| 22:32.20 | *** join/#openmoko peeps[work] (n=peepsalo@bwext.kpimdp.com) |
| 22:32.21 | wurp2 | It is no less or more secure to download something then run it from the command line than to ask the user if they want to run it |
| 22:32.23 | Mek | because probably most users won't read what is being asked, and just press okay |
| 22:32.46 | nelson | "Are you sure you want to ``rm -rf /'' ? (Y/N)?" |
| 22:32.52 | wurp2 | How many of those same users won't just go double click on it? |
| 22:33.18 | wurp2 | Well, in general, confirmation messages should change the UI to confirm each time |
| 22:33.47 | wurp2 | Or, ideally, everything you might do that wants confirmation should be undoable, but that's probably not practical on an OM machine |
| 22:34.14 | raynet | couldnt you use uninstall the package? |
| 22:34.20 | raynet | s/use/just |
| 22:34.43 | wurp2 | For security purposes, a package that's rooting your box probably won't uninstall itself properly :-) |
| 22:35.02 | nelson | wurp2: package installation is undoable assuming you didn't run out of memory. |
| 22:35.20 | wurp2 | nelson: And assuming that the package lets itself be uninstalled |
| 22:35.35 | nelson | for a device like this, it's probably best to allow a user to make an association between a .ipkg and "ipkg install %s", BUT |
| 22:35.56 | nelson | otherwise, package installation should only happen through openmoko.org/ |
| 22:36.00 | wurp2 | I am certainly not an ipkg guru, but I would think you can set up a hook that does arbitrary things while installing |
| 22:36.17 | nelson | wurp2: yes, you can. WAY arbitrary. |
| 22:36.39 | nelson | okay, so, really, that answers my initial question. |
| 22:36.47 | nelson | "Open Moko packages should come from Open Moko". |
| 22:36.59 | raynet | official repo is always a good thing |
| 22:37.01 | wurp2 | What I was suggesting is that there should be some low level sandbox functionality that all unsafe ops happen in, that can then be commited or uncommited later |
| 22:37.24 | wurp2 | But of course that's a theoretical point, not directly related to OM or your question |
| 22:37.36 | nelson | wurp2: for package installation?? that would be hard. How would you "sandbox" install ssh, for example? |
| 22:37.59 | nelson | Or anything that needed to bind to a port <1024 ? |
| 22:38.04 | wurp2 | nelson: Make the whole file system a revision control system |
| 22:38.46 | nelson | wurp2: realistically? jffs2? limited flash? bad things happening when you fill the fs? I don't think so. |
| 22:39.03 | wurp2 | nelson: That would be why I said it wasn't practical on OM |
| 22:39.16 | wurp2 | nelson: And why I started that sentence with 'ideally' |
| 22:39.21 | raynet | if one really wants to "protect" the users, you only have two basic options. either only allow them to use a official repo or have signed packages certified by some 3rd party system like with S60v3 stuff is |
| 22:39.46 | raynet | ofcourse you would want to allow advanced users to shoot themselves in the leg if they reall want to |
| 22:39.54 | nelson | raynet++ |
| 22:40.06 | raynet | or 3rd, have some sort of sandbox environment like Java to run random apps |
| 22:40.24 | wurp2 | nelson: But... ext3 already supports journaling. Again, I am no expert, but I would think that it wouldn't cost too much to support one 'savepoint' so you could undo at least back to the previous savepoint |
| 22:41.03 | raynet | wurp2: ZFS would be best for that, but it isnt very flash friendly i think |
| 22:47.25 | jadams_ | is anyone using tmobile able to use the gprs manually as per http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS ? I have custom connect scripts, but they've stopped working, and I'd really just like to get it going |
| 22:47.33 | *** join/#openmoko ken___ (n=user@84.92.70.37) |
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| 23:00.42 | spydon | Gn folks |
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| 23:09.19 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host81-151-105-31.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 23:30.31 | jadams_ | where does feed reader get its feeds from? |
| 23:30.39 | jadams_ | I can't add a new one through the UI, but if I can just get a feed on there... |
| 23:31.21 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@78-86-213-209.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 23:33.11 | jadams_ | I'm SOOO close to what I wanted to do today... |
| 23:33.50 | raster | the same stuff i feed to the dog |
| 23:33.51 | raster | :) |
| 23:35.43 | jadams_ | raster! |
| 23:35.57 | raster | jadams_: boop! |
| 23:36.19 | jadams_ | I just saw that you were hired by openmoko |
| 23:36.22 | jadams_ | I'm so happy for you :) |
| 23:36.40 | jadams_ | I want e on this thing like my girlfriend wants the beatings to end |
| 23:36.48 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 23:39.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 1225 has been created by onno(AT)gmx.net |
| 23:39.02 | cdbot2 | * * visual enhancement for dfu-util |
| 23:39.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1225 |
| 23:39.07 | jadams_ | anyway, does anyone know where feed reader keeps its config info? Or at least can anyone point me to the source for it somewhere? |
| 23:39.44 | *** join/#openmoko ThePizzaKing (n=jeff@c211-28-165-76.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 23:39.51 | raster | jadams_: e17 already works on it. |
| 23:39.58 | raster | what it does need is customising for the moko |
| 23:40.14 | jadams_ | raster, do you have a build somewhere for download? |
| 23:40.15 | raster | well customising for a tiny-screen high-res device |
| 23:40.26 | jadams_ | I know it won't work and I don't care |
| 23:40.35 | jadams_ | e15 is what got me wanting to run linux in the first place way back in the day |
| 23:41.58 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@tangency.co.uk) |
| 23:42.02 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@82.201.174.232) |
| 23:45.40 | jadams_ | what do I pass to ipkg to tell it to install on the card? |
| 23:47.07 | raster | hmm |
| 23:47.09 | raster | not sure |
| 23:47.14 | jadams_ | oh well |
| 23:47.18 | jadams_ | I'll work more on this tomorrow |
| 23:47.22 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@mail.verticalone.pt) |
| 23:47.26 | jadams_ | ZERO billable work today because I fiddled with my moko for half a day |
| 23:47.36 | jadams_ | but it's for a project that we intend to use mokos for long term, so it's worth it |
| 23:47.47 | jadams_ | (having said that, any phone with a feed reader will do) |
| 23:48.26 | raster | cool |
| 23:48.39 | raster | i assume u need/want 802.11 right? |
| 23:50.08 | jadams_ | I'm fine without it |
| 23:50.15 | jadams_ | GPRS + feed reader is workable for what I want |
| 23:50.19 | jadams_ | just incremental update |
| 23:54.06 | *** part/#openmoko dcordes (n=user0815@e179097127.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:56.49 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@p508B11D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |