| 00:00.39 | gamin | oh cool |
| 00:02.02 | KrisAbsinthe_ | still, i would like a clear neo case |
| 00:02.17 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 00:03.21 | KrisAbsinthe_ | I think later on when OM is not so rushed to produce good phones all the little "cool" things will come along |
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| 00:08.06 | KrisAbsinthe_ | gamin: RoadNav has a feature to download by county and state, it grabs from OSM if i grabbed what i wanted with it, it should be compatible right? |
| 00:08.06 | raster | KrisAbsinthe_: dunno but i think for om we would be moving to slimming down and making it smaller |
| 00:08.06 | raster | not making it fatter |
| 00:08.06 | raster | there is actually plenty of room inside the case |
| 00:08.21 | KrisAbsinthe_ | raster: really, i never took mine apart.....yet |
| 00:08.32 | gamin | KrisAbsinthe_: no idea how roadnav puts it on the disk... |
| 00:08.58 | KrisAbsinthe_ | your app just uses the actual image right? |
| 00:09.06 | gamin | KrisAbsinthe_: however there is a good chance that they doit the same way |
| 00:09.17 | gamin | yes |
| 00:09.38 | KrisAbsinthe_ | sweet, |
| 00:09.40 | gamin | dir structure is zoom/x/y |
| 00:18.52 | KrisAbsinthe_ | this will be great for my road trip to NYC in july |
| 00:19.43 | gamin | KrisAbsinthe_: until then it will most likely do a lot more... |
| 00:20.14 | KrisAbsinthe_ | oh yeah, hope i have the GTA02 by then lol |
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| 00:29.15 | raster | oooook |
| 00:31.17 | mwester-laptop | ook? |
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| 00:32.10 | raster | ooooooooooooookaaaay |
| 00:32.11 | ewon | ook. |
| 00:32.28 | KrisAbsinthe_ | ok .......just wanted to be part of the family :( |
| 00:32.58 | gamin | ooooooook mwester |
| 00:35.27 | KrisAbsinthe_ | I hate college english.... |
| 00:35.58 | KrisAbsinthe_ | I also hate mokomakefile , taking forever |
| 00:36.16 | gamin | i love mokomakefile |
| 00:36.37 | KrisAbsinthe_ | ive been compiling all day |
| 00:37.02 | gamin | you do that once and then it works forever |
| 00:37.20 | raster | KrisAbsinthe_: actually your computer has been compiling all day. you're just a spectator :) |
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| 00:37.38 | raster | KrisAbsinthe_: if *YOU* had been compiling all day.... i'd be awarding you medals for persistence :) |
| 00:37.47 | smlsfb | http://xkcd.com/303/ |
| 00:37.47 | raster | smlsfb: good point |
| 00:38.17 | Stephmw | smlsfb: yeah, incremental compilation is slowly killing that off |
| 00:38.17 | KrisAbsinthe_ | raster: lol |
| 00:38.28 | Stephmw | mwester-laptop: ditto in the UK |
| 00:38.38 | raster | smlsfb: BWAHAHAHHAHAHA ROTFL |
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| 00:41.44 | cesarb | mwester-laptop: probably because they were forced to learn the obscure rules native speakers "know" by being exposed to daily |
| 00:41.47 | KrisAbsinthe_ | i want to encode that image for the moko startup |
| 00:41.54 | cesarb | mwester-laptop: and thus learn them correctly ;-) |
| 00:44.04 | KrisAbsinthe_ | I had a hard time learning parallelism because of my "over exposure" to english, "i probably speak better german, but cant spell it lol |
| 00:46.46 | raster | german is so easy to spell |
| 00:46.51 | raster | u learn the rules once |
| 00:46.54 | raster | then it "just works" |
| 00:47.26 | KrisAbsinthe_ | i revert badly to V's and C's |
| 00:47.39 | mwester-laptop | I like the rule about making new words by just gluing loads of other words together. :D |
| 00:48.27 | KrisAbsinthe_ | some of those words made me ill until I realized that it was just a big sentence lol |
| 00:51.20 | smlsfb | raster, do you telecommute, or do you get to have swordfights with the other OM devs while the code compiles? :) |
| 00:51.40 | raster | smlsfb: i fill it in with writing code |
| 00:51.42 | raster | :) |
| 00:52.07 | raster | only when i really need a break i hed to the kitchen for food & drink |
| 00:52.13 | raster | whihc is all of a 3m walk away |
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| 00:52.35 | raster | or i just joust on irc |
| 00:52.38 | raster | with wordsd |
| 00:52.39 | raster | :) |
| 00:52.40 | raster | words |
| 00:52.41 | raster | :) |
| 00:52.55 | smlsfb | my brother used to be able to get his boss to join in quake2 games :) |
| 00:53.07 | smlsfb | sounds like a pretty good deal tho |
| 00:53.08 | KrisAbsinthe_ | That would be great |
| 00:53.34 | KrisAbsinthe_ | thats why no one ever hires me as a boss |
| 00:54.40 | raster | cesarb: crt legacy |
| 00:54.41 | raster | :) |
| 00:55.45 | cesarb | raster: which crt legacy, this driver is since the beginning a LCD-only driver! |
| 00:56.00 | raster | i know |
| 00:56.16 | raster | what we need to do is not blank, but just dpms off the screen (and trhus backlight) |
| 00:56.25 | raster | blanking itself is useless |
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| 00:57.13 | cesarb | raster: well, the blanking code _is_ supposed to do the "dpms off" part, it just doesn't |
| 00:57.20 | KrisAbsinthe_ | all i need is like 40% more life to get me through the day lol |
| 00:57.26 | raster | hmmm |
| 00:57.34 | raster | gta01 or 02? |
| 00:57.51 | cesarb | raster: instead, it sets the "fixed palette" register (which allows one to output a fixed color instead of the normal output), and sets it to zero (black) |
| 00:57.58 | cesarb | raster: gta01 |
| 00:58.19 | cesarb | raster: gta02 probably won't use this code, AFAIK it will go via a different path to the glamo |
| 01:00.03 | raster | i swear bothy my gta01 and 02 have their backlight off when blanked |
| 01:00.30 | raster | yup |
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| 01:00.32 | raster | backlight is off |
| 01:00.41 | cesarb | raster: gta01 at least does... which makes the code _even more pointless_ |
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| 01:00.58 | raster | oh i see what u mean |
| 01:01.02 | raster | never mind |
| 01:01.17 | balrog-kun | yeah, it keeps updating the screen even when the backlight is off, it can be seen under qemu |
| 01:01.22 | raster | yup |
| 01:01.38 | raster | tho technically we should unpower the whole lcm |
| 01:01.40 | cesarb | raster: in fact, the correct thing from a power usage POV would be to actually turn off both the LCM and the LCD block in the SoC. I don't know about the LCM, but the LCD block sure isn't disabled |
| 01:01.44 | raster | should even have video refresh |
| 01:01.53 | raster | yup |
| 01:02.07 | balrog-kun | probably not very difficult to patch |
| 01:02.22 | KrisAbsinthe_ | uh, I think some people would rather it take a second for the SoC to come on |
| 01:02.23 | cesarb | raster: and with the cpufreq code I'm writing, turning off the LCD block in the SoC via its driver is needed so the governor can go to lower frequencies |
| 01:03.15 | raster | yeah |
| 01:03.15 | cesarb | KrisAbsinthe_: if it's too slow to come on (probably isn't, it's pretty fast when you power on), you can delay turning it off for some minutes, so it will happen when the user isn't looking |
| 01:03.19 | raster | understood |
| 01:03.26 | raster | the gta02 is a different kettle of fish |
| 01:03.44 | raster | but we'd want to definitely shut down the whole lcd and "dac" scan on blank |
| 01:03.49 | KrisAbsinthe_ | cesarb: true |
| 01:05.32 | KrisAbsinthe_ | in the eyes of power consumption, does the SD chip turn off when not being used? |
| 01:06.21 | KrisAbsinthe_ | and by used i mean actively being accessed |
| 01:06.26 | cesarb | KrisAbsinthe_: didn't look at that driver yet, and in fact have been testing without the card |
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| 01:07.26 | raster | man if we can just suspend and resume reliably i'll be most happy |
| 01:08.05 | cesarb | raster: well, it took how many years until desktop linux suspend/resume started being somewhat more reliable? it's mostly the same code... |
| 01:08.08 | KrisAbsinthe_ | cesarb: that would be great |
| 01:08.29 | Aria | At least it's only two platforms. |
| 01:08.41 | Aria | Easy to regression test ;-) |
| 01:08.47 | KrisAbsinthe_ | Aria: for now lol |
| 01:09.04 | vininim | hmm so, was the 1st february deadline real or speculation? |
| 01:09.38 | KrisAbsinthe_ | nope, 2nd February of next month lol |
| 01:10.01 | raster | cesarb: slight difference is we have control of the hardware - and it is very limited :) |
| 01:10.18 | vininim | what? didn't get it =P |
| 01:11.21 | KrisAbsinthe_ | I personally expect the GTA02 in april, if it comes before that great, if after then thats ok too |
| 01:11.37 | KrisAbsinthe_ | <------ has no ties to OM |
| 01:12.52 | vininim | 1st february, according to the wiki, was just for hardware revision, not release. And it seems to not make sense, since 28 january some a5 was shipped. |
| 01:13.00 | vininim | *were |
| 01:14.54 | KrisAbsinthe_ | where did you see that? |
| 01:16.55 | KrisAbsinthe_ | here is a good question, is the debug board the same? |
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| 01:21.14 | vininim | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#A_couple_of_things_I_have_noticed_via_the_various_mailing_lists_-_no_inside_info_at_all_-_JW |
| 01:21.43 | KrisAbsinthe_ | cool thx |
| 01:23.52 | KrisAbsinthe_ | thats interesting. I would like to know if the hardware is OK or if they need another revision |
| 01:25.24 | cesarb | KrisAbsinthe_: I don't know if it helps, but I found this -> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Prototypes <- yesterday |
| 01:28.06 | KrisAbsinthe_ | cesarb: no that help a little :) |
| 01:33.33 | vininim | it helps a lot, knowing that there are bluetooth issues means that it won't be released tomorrow =P |
| 01:34.41 | balrog-kun | cesarb: it may be good to add a note about the cpufreq tree and the progress on it in this community updates page to get some public attention |
| 01:37.10 | vininim | cesarb: is the shipping to Brazil easy to deal? |
| 01:37.29 | cesarb | balrog-kun: perhaps, but is the community updates page a page for updates _to_ the community or _from_ the community? |
| 01:37.53 | vininim | or you receive it through special channels(ie. not from direct.openmoko.com)? |
| 01:38.40 | cesarb | vininim: it's normal shipping, it only stops at a point where you have to pay the taxes (60% import tax and then about 18% sales tax over the result), and then follows normally |
| 01:38.45 | balrog-kun | cesarb: not sure, but it seems there are comments from community on there too :) |
| 01:39.13 | cesarb | balrog-kun: ah, but notice they were done as a replacement for the comments to the community which were missing last week :) |
| 01:39.30 | balrog-kun | ah yeah |
| 01:40.15 | vininim | 1513.000 |
| 01:40.52 | vininim | (without shipping) |
| 01:41.16 | balrog-kun | is the tax 60% of the value of the phone? |
| 01:41.33 | cesarb | balrog-kun: no, 60% of what I already paid (i.e. including shipping) |
| 01:42.08 | balrog-kun | ouch |
| 01:43.21 | cesarb | balrog-kun: in the end, it cost twice the original price, as expected (that always happen with electronic things here; they always seem to have twice or three times the price outside the country) |
| 01:43.43 | vininim | i'll definatley get a debug board =P |
| 01:44.42 | cesarb | balrog-kun: which is why I probably will wait a bit more before getting a gta02 ;-) (I already have a gta01 to play with in the meantime, once I manage to make its battery last a _bit_ more...) |
| 01:45.57 | balrog-kun | cesarb: you should arrange to get a free "preview", it says "no market value" in the papers that are sent with them |
| 01:46.28 | cesarb | balrog-kun: that would probably only get the thing entangled in the bureaucracy |
| 01:47.45 | balrog-kun | :( |
| 01:48.09 | cesarb | balrog-kun: after all, would they believe a phone costing nothing? ;-) |
| 01:48.48 | balrog-kun | if it come with a debug board, or if it comes three in a pack, then may be :) |
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| 01:49.07 | vininim | http://www.dirad.fiocruz.br/?q=node/139 |
| 01:49.09 | cesarb | balrog-kun: the most reliable way of evading these taxes is to get a friend outside the country to get it to you, and bring with him to the country (there's a limit up to which you can bring stuff in without taxes with you) |
| 01:49.37 | vininim | it seems om/fic could manage with some paper filling |
| 01:49.45 | vininim | you're a developer after all |
| 01:50.07 | balrog-kun | the bad part is with the paper i signed DHL can now pay for anything and then demand a refund from me and if i don't agree, they will take it from my account themselves |
| 01:50.20 | cesarb | balrog-kun: I knew how much it would be before buying. There's a very explicative page on the subject on the government's website. |
| 01:50.45 | cesarb | balrog-kun: it might be excessive, but it's quite predictable |
| 01:51.04 | balrog-kun | i see |
| 02:00.27 | cesarb | Predictably, when I copy the kernel to the correct place, my code ends up working after all |
| 02:03.57 | balrog-kun | the copying is the main part, you could have no code at all and the copying would make up for that ;) |
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| 02:14.22 | smlsfb | cesarb, that sounds like compiling :) http://xkcd.com/303/ |
| 02:18.22 | balrog-kun | five minutes, afaik, there should be some ioctl to change that |
| 02:20.01 | balrog-kun | ah no, it's 10 |
| 02:20.09 | balrog-kun | the value is hardcoded in drivers/char/vt.c |
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| 02:25.41 | cesarb | Oh great, the code just did the exact opposite it should have done |
| 02:25.54 | cesarb | I divided when I should have multiplied |
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| 02:58.21 | smlsfb | cesarb, working as expected? |
| 02:59.29 | cesarb | smlsfb: on qemu, yes |
| 03:00.00 | smlsfb | :) excellent |
| 03:00.00 | cesarb | smlsfb: still have to test on the real device, which I probably will do only tomorrow (it's already a whole hour past midnight here) |
| 03:00.12 | smlsfb | ah, that sounds fair |
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| 03:55.46 | no_mind | will the moko come |
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| 04:03.12 | ljp | geezz. usb1 is slow |
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| 04:12.00 | raster | indeed |
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| 05:53.18 | X704 | still projected release for March? |
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| 06:01.55 | mbuf | X704, until further notice |
| 06:02.51 | X704 | ok |
| 06:03.38 | X704 | because this phone sucks... lol |
| 06:03.38 | dbmoodb | this phone does not suck |
| 06:03.38 | X704 | (I was talking about my current phone) |
| 06:03.38 | dbmoodb | drools over the freerunner |
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| 06:03.38 | dbmoodb | oh ... |
| 06:03.46 | dbmoodb | i second that motion then |
| 06:03.51 | X704 | which _Does_ suck |
| 06:03.55 | X704 | heh |
| 06:04.16 | X704 | I can't do anything interesting with it :/ |
| 06:05.06 | X704 | I can't wait to be able to compile programs and run a web server from the Neo1973/moko |
| 06:05.15 | dbmoodb | rofl |
| 06:05.53 | dbmoodb | you can do that on a pic chip that is not the best part of the openmoko - i'm thinking apache, mt-daapd, ssh, avahi, pidgin, |
| 06:06.02 | dbmoodb | kismet :) |
| 06:06.18 | X704 | well, yeah... |
| 06:06.37 | X704 | did not even think about ssh... :) |
| 06:06.46 | X704 | hmm |
| 06:09.55 | X704 | if I get one I should probably think of a small foldable bluetooth keyboard |
| 06:10.24 | dbmoodb | yes same idea as me but you can get cheap foldable usb ones |
| 06:10.39 | X704 | it has a USB port? |
| 06:10.46 | dbmoodb | .... ... yes |
| 06:10.55 | X704 | I spoze it should... heh |
| 06:13.14 | X704 | so yeah... I want a Neo1973/moko and an X43 plane |
| 06:13.44 | dbmoodb | what is an x42 plane |
| 06:14.15 | X704 | the fastest plane that uses air for propulsion |
| 06:14.25 | X704 | mach 10 :) |
| 06:14.32 | dbmoodb | link me ? |
| 06:14.41 | X704 | http://www.nasa.gov/missions/research/x43-main.html |
| 06:14.54 | dbmoodb | pft |
| 06:15.24 | dbmoodb | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-35 |
| 06:15.46 | dbmoodb | go the mig |
| 06:16.33 | X704 | its still not as fast as the X43 :P |
| 06:16.44 | dbmoodb | and... i have big guns and movement |
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| 06:18.24 | dbmoodb | + it is cheaper |
| 06:18.58 | X704 | I'm not really talking about combat airplanes... lol |
| 06:19.05 | dbmoodb | nor was i |
| 06:19.08 | dbmoodb | winks |
| 06:19.42 | X704 | :P |
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| 06:23.23 | dbmoodb | common openmoko take my money i want the phone :) lol |
| 06:26.35 | X704 | it will be like a laptop that happens to be a cellphone (once its released) |
| 06:27.39 | dbmoodb | no it will be like my nas device- so seamless my X family member turns off the power to the study during a storm and forgets to turn it off |
| 06:27.55 | dbmoodb | the keyboard will just be a fun feature |
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| 07:24.26 | rwhitby | who broke mtpaint? |
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| 08:13.14 | florian | good morning |
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| 09:21.11 | CIA-15 | freesmartphone.org: 03emdete * r69 10/trunk/software/gsm0710muxd/ (data/gsm0710muxd.conf src/gsm0710muxd.c): |
| 09:21.11 | CIA-15 | freesmartphone.org: enhanced logging |
| 09:21.11 | CIA-15 | freesmartphone.org: added dbus policy |
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| 09:43.00 | ScaredyCat | works here rwhitby |
| 09:43.36 | rwhitby | ScaredyCat: OE revision 5832c7c5be46599da8552b5edb54111b13dea59c ? |
| 09:43.59 | ScaredyCat | de32d6a54e66ed8cf78ffc60c629cf5cd3b38fd5 |
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| 09:44.44 | rwhitby | ScaredyCat: ah, so you're not using the OM repo then. |
| 09:45.09 | rwhitby | (which is my point, someone didn't test openmoko-feed before upgrading the stable repo) |
| 09:45.12 | ScaredyCat | no, oe dev |
| 09:45.21 | ScaredyCat | ah yes.. |
| 09:45.32 | rwhitby | ScaredyCat: if it was broken there I would have reported it in #oe ;-) |
| 09:45.48 | XorA | it wasnt me |
| 09:46.01 | ScaredyCat | but openmoko-feed fails for me anyway... evas, epdf or sommat, so I buil round that |
| 09:46.25 | ScaredyCat | isn't there supposed to be a revision manager.... |
| 09:46.26 | ScaredyCat | :P |
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| 09:55.39 | ScaredyCat | you not done that yet XorA? |
| 09:55.54 | XorA | ScaredyCat: its in OM repo for few days now |
| 09:56.06 | XorA | ScaredyCat: hopefully the daily builds have a qtopia build |
| 09:56.34 | ScaredyCat | mmmm... not oe dev ? |
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| 09:57.21 | XorA | ScaredyCat: no, there are problems with qtopia which mean Its not a high enough quality for OE.dev and zecke is working on an alternate solution |
| 09:58.08 | ScaredyCat | isn't OM supposed to be clean/stable ? |
| 09:58.16 | ScaredyCat | and oe.dev errm dev ? |
| 09:59.19 | XorA | ScaredyCat: OE has standards, OM cant violate those |
| 09:59.43 | XorA | ScaredyCat: the fact qtopia build needs stuff from host is breach of standards |
| 09:59.56 | ljp | oe has standards? really? |
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| 10:04.38 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 10:05.05 | dcordes | hi TRIsoft |
| 10:05.39 | ScaredyCat | XorA: pfft... |
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| 10:41.24 | ljp | ScaredyCat: oe held up opie from oe simply because it installed to /opt |
| 10:42.14 | ljp | ScaredyCat: there is a long standing bias from os devs against anything qtopia related |
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| 10:42.24 | ljp | oe, not os |
| 10:42.35 | XorA | ljp: not true, just some |
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| 11:33.47 | CIA-15 | openmoko: 03thomas * r4015 10/trunk/src/target/opkg/pkg_parse.c: opkg: fix pkg_parse_raw() bug where architecture is set to an invalid value |
| 11:37.24 | smlsfb | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSi6J-QK1lw# |
| 11:37.28 | smlsfb | oops |
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| 11:40.49 | zem_ | good morning |
| 11:41.37 | gamin | smlsfb: the jump is too funny |
| 11:42.50 | gamin | smlsfb: you could jump over all these spike stoppers. the look in the face of a guard/cop would be worth gold! |
| 11:43.47 | smlsfb | haha, yeah i'd love suspension like that :) |
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| 12:18.53 | Atul_ | Hi while executing AT Commands I got error like "unable to handle packet type=2" why so ? |
| 12:22.21 | balrog-kun | Atul_: it means and overrun i think, i.e. a response bigger than 4096 bytes or so |
| 12:23.30 | Atul_ | balrog-kun: it reponse comes form gsmd part of openmoko |
| 12:23.54 | balrog-kun | *an |
| 12:24.10 | balrog-kun | Atul_: yes, gsmd has a limit on the size of response for a single AT command |
| 12:24.39 | Atul_ | balrog-kun: but what the solution for it I have to test all AT Commands for neo1973 How to do now ? |
| 12:25.53 | balrog-kun | i don't know, extend the buffer in gsmd |
| 12:34.52 | *** part/#openmoko coaster (i=coaster@unaffiliated/coaster) |
| 12:35.42 | SpeedEvil | or send on eat a time |
| 12:36.00 | SpeedEvil | what command needs more than 4096 chars? |
| 12:38.47 | Gottox | "640 kB ought to be enough for anybody." :P |
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| 12:40.27 | SpeedEvil | yes - trye - but AT commands - with the exception of the PPP related ones have sizes of 100 bytes at most |
| 12:40.35 | SpeedEvil | with 10 being more typical |
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| 12:56.23 | emdete | SpeedEvil: what are ppp related at commands? |
| 13:04.11 | SpeedEvil | the ones that initiate a ppp session |
| 13:04.17 | SpeedEvil | GPRS |
| 13:05.53 | balrog-kun | AT+CLAC (list all commands) had a lot of output |
| 13:06.05 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@dyn165125.wlan.jku.at) |
| 13:06.30 | emdete | SpeedEvil: but the answers are quit short also for those, right? |
| 13:06.33 | balrog-kun | i think i resized the buffer to 4096 just for AT+CLAC on the TI Calypso to work |
| 13:06.37 | SpeedEvil | emdete: no |
| 13:06.40 | *** join/#openmoko evas (n=oraizon@firewall1.cattid.uniroma1.it) |
| 13:06.43 | evas | hi |
| 13:06.44 | SpeedEvil | emdete: they can be a gigabyte ppp session |
| 13:07.01 | SpeedEvil | (neglecting the multiplexor) |
| 13:07.27 | evas | hi |
| 13:09.04 | emdete | SpeedEvil: that's not at-command but ppprotocol, right? a gsm daemon shouldn parse that... |
| 13:10.45 | SpeedEvil | true - but they are initiated by at commands |
| 13:10.59 | evas | if you are interested in usability review or interface design please subscribe to "2008 Season of usability" |
| 13:11.11 | evas | by openusability initiative |
| 13:11.14 | evas | http://season.openusability.org/index.php/2008/02/03/call-for-projects/ |
| 13:11.53 | evas | We are an university lab on usability and accessibility and we have already done many mobili interfaces research |
| 13:12.07 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja (n=chatzill@141.30.72.68) |
| 13:12.19 | emdete | SpeedEvil: but wasnt the discussion about limits in gsmd? |
| 13:13.49 | zem_ | Cool, my neo1973 qemu has just booted up... |
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| 13:19.12 | SpeedEvil | emdete: yes - it was more an aside |
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| 13:38.09 | CVirus | OpenMoko moving to efl ? |
| 13:38.51 | balrog-kun | probably not very soon |
| 13:39.49 | CVirus | link to news ? |
| 13:42.22 | balrog-kun | it was being considered from the very beginning |
| 13:42.28 | balrog-kun | and it's still only considered afaik |
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| 13:43.53 | CVirus | reasons ? |
| 13:46.07 | oelewapperke | CVirus: what's efl ? |
| 13:46.17 | CVirus | Enlightnement foundation libraries |
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| 13:47.05 | zash_ | xcasex: *poke* |
| 13:47.18 | zash_ | xcasex: didnt you say something about efl? |
| 13:47.30 | zash_ | 2 |
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| 13:48.21 | xkr47 | *peek* |
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| 13:51.39 | balrog-kun | reasons for switching or not switching? |
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| 13:55.02 | ifeel | balrog-kun: yeah....it'd be interesting... |
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| 14:20.55 | mwester | balrog-kun: So that OM could have a gui that performs like the iPhone? |
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| 14:23.27 | thomasg | mwester, no problem at all. |
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| 14:24.09 | thomasg | the iphone uses 3d-support for windowmanager-effects, that's where OM needs time, as there is no 3d capable driver. with efl you can do pretty neat stuff with softwarerendering only. |
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| 14:26.13 | jmichel | mwester: hello... about the kernel compilation that we discussed last friday, if I delete the "build/tmp/stamps/neo1973-xxx/linux-xxx-do_compile" file then do a "make menuconfig" in the kernel then rebuild with "make build-package-linux-openmoko" it doesn't work at all. |
| 14:26.40 | jmichel | mwester: It gives me some errors while compiling |
| 14:28.47 | zem_ | AFAIR the graphics chip in GTA01 is 3d capeable, but the driver isn't |
| 14:28.58 | mjr | 02 |
| 14:29.16 | balrog-kun | mwester: i'm not sure efl helps in that much |
| 14:29.52 | mjr | it has some nasty limits as well, 512x512 render area which would have to be worked around in software (not a small feat) if one wanted to use the whole screen |
| 14:31.17 | zem_ | A propper solution is to write a 3d enabled Framebuffer for GTA01 |
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| 14:38.47 | mwester | I'm playing the devil's advocate role, to some extent. I do like the iphone gui effects, and it is very snappy, but personally I'm unwilling to sacrifice some of the other features by shifting dev work to converting to EFL instead of coding the apps and services. JMO. |
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| 15:11.21 | SpeedEvil | Ok - it looks like my ADSL connection is becoming increasingly unstable. Calling |
| 15:11.22 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:12.12 | SpeedEvil | Unless I decide to use GPRS |
| 15:17.36 | wibbit | SpeedEvil: My boss had a problem with his BT line |
| 15:17.49 | wibbit | turns out some "geezers" broke in to the local exchange and nicked all the copper |
| 15:18.34 | XorA | heh heh |
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| 15:26.45 | wibbit | I hadn't realised it was so expensive |
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| 15:27.02 | cvdstap | hello all |
| 15:27.18 | cvdstap | any positive news as off late ? |
| 15:28.02 | pike_ | that would be a no |
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| 15:38.15 | cvdstap | :/ |
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| 16:52.55 | wurp2|away | Has anyone else had trouble with GPRS? |
| 16:53.15 | wurp2 | I am using AT&T, was cingular |
| 16:53.22 | wurp2 | And I'm on a pay-as-you-go plan |
| 16:53.46 | wurp2 | When I connect, pppd shows 'atz', then it just seems to end |
| 16:54.33 | wurp2 | I dunno much about pppd... I can see where the atz is in the connect script, but there is an echo before it, and the echo doesn't show up, just the atz |
| 16:54.37 | wurp2 | blist |
| 16:54.47 | wurp2 | s/blist/whoops/ |
| 16:55.03 | cjb_ie | the keys are like right beside each other :) |
| 16:55.30 | wurp2 | I use bitlbee, and blist is like /who |
| 16:55.49 | wurp2 | the s/ was just my way of saying I didna mean to type that |
| 16:59.49 | kdean06 | Never a dull day. :) |
| 17:01.09 | wurp2 | kdean06: what's up? |
| 17:01.37 | kdean06 | I'm bouncing in my chair, eagerly awaiting a dealer to call me. |
| 17:02.33 | wurp2 | You shouldn't talk about your drug deals in public forums, man |
| 17:03.18 | kdean06 | I know, but the constituents respect someone who's got aired laundry. :) |
| 17:03.50 | wurp2 | Ah, laying the groundwork for your political aspirations? |
| 17:03.58 | kdean06 | No... |
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| 17:04.19 | kdean06 | I'm still debating a run for state Delegate but I think I've got a while still... |
| 17:04.28 | kdean06 | Anyway, beside the point... |
| 17:04.31 | kdean06 | Car dealer. :) |
| 17:04.35 | wurp2 | ah |
| 17:04.43 | wurp2 | I tend to drive mine until they fall apart |
| 17:04.46 | wurp2 | I like not having a payment |
| 17:05.01 | kdean06 | wurp2, I paid my sedan off last weekend, and that one goes to the wife. :) |
| 17:05.09 | kdean06 | Early, I might add. Yay me! |
| 17:05.13 | wurp2 | Cool! |
| 17:05.23 | wurp2 | cjb_ie: Also cool |
| 17:05.41 | wurp2 | I have bought 3 new cars, I think... |
| 17:05.47 | kdean06 | I work 55 miles from home and she works 45 miles in the other direction... Two cars is really REALLY useful for us. |
| 17:05.51 | wurp2 | but even our used ones cost 8k eur or more |
| 17:06.02 | wurp2 | Oh, yeah, you have to have 2 in that situation |
| 17:06.12 | cjb_ie | sounds like you're living in the wrong place :) |
| 17:06.20 | wurp2 | But we have kids, so we have to buy mini van |
| 17:06.31 | wurp2 | Yeah, I would love to live somewhere with good public transportation |
| 17:07.11 | Ebbe | I use my bicycle for the city and train/bus when I need to go elsewhere |
| 17:07.17 | wurp2 | On another topic... how many people have bluetooth networking going? Preferably on ubuntu, although I suppose Debian would be almost identical |
| 17:07.21 | kdean06 | Proud DINK for life. |
| 17:07.24 | kdean06 | ;) |
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| 17:07.48 | cjb_ie | great thing about my new one - it's a pickup so i can chuck my bike in the back |
| 17:08.08 | wurp2 | Heh, SI3K here |
| 17:08.37 | cjb_ie | SI3K ? |
| 17:08.43 | kdean06 | Single Income, Three kids. |
| 17:08.43 | wurp2 | Single Income 3 Kids |
| 17:08.56 | cjb_ie | ooh, stretchy income |
| 17:09.11 | kdean06 | Nah, starving kids. :( |
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| 17:09.39 | wurp2 | Income is fairly stretchy - I'm direct contracting to Southwest airlines |
| 17:09.40 | kdean06 | wurp2, For your question, no, I've not set up Bluetooth networking yet. |
| 17:09.41 | cjb_ie | kdean06: 'sok, it builds character |
| 17:09.47 | wurp2 | writing software |
| 17:10.45 | Ebbe | wurp2: Doesn't the wiki instructions work with pand? |
| 17:10.59 | wurp2 | For me, only mostly |
| 17:11.06 | wurp2 | I need to go through it again |
| 17:11.30 | wurp2 | My initial experience was that I could get networking to my machine to work, but no external access |
| 17:11.35 | wurp2 | THen I got that working, but no DNS |
| 17:12.02 | wurp2 | Then I got stupid and started trying to work on the fancy stuff (auto connect on the desktop side) before I got DNS fixed |
| 17:12.08 | wurp2 | and I busted the whole thing |
| 17:12.26 | wurp2 | DNS in general has seemed flaky on the neo, even when using usb networking |
| 17:12.46 | wurp2 | about half to 2/3 of the time I can access the internet fine, but I get no DNS |
| 17:12.56 | wurp2 | then it will just start working, with me having made no changes |
| 17:13.34 | kdean06 | Simplest way for me is to just forward DNS traffic on. |
| 17:13.46 | kdean06 | Are you doing that, or running a DNS server on your PC? |
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| 17:14.43 | wurp2 | DNS on my PC |
| 17:14.46 | wurp2 | Maybe that's my issue |
| 17:15.10 | wurp2 | I'm not sure how to configure forwarding DNS traffic on... are you using a routing entry for that? |
| 17:15.51 | wurp2 | My point with the DNS comment is that I may well have had everything right except this intermittent DNS issue, then I went and screwed it up :-) |
| 17:15.55 | gamin | wurp2: dnsmasq ist the easiest way |
| 17:16.02 | kdean06 | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Proxying_with_iptables |
| 17:16.11 | wurp2 | I need to reset back to my starting place and try again |
| 17:16.22 | wurp2 | gamin, kdean06: Cool, thanks! |
| 17:16.48 | kdean06 | I'd assume the same would apply to Bluetooth, making the needed IP changes. |
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| 17:17.07 | gamin | wurp2: I'm running debian and just needed apt-get install dnsmasq. no configuration necessary |
| 17:17.24 | gamin | works right out of the box |
| 17:17.25 | kdean06 | gamin, What are the benefits of that, over, say, port forwarding? |
| 17:17.42 | gamin | no fiddeling with iptables ? :) |
| 17:17.44 | wurp2 | gamin: Wow, that sounds like the way to go |
| 17:17.58 | kdean06 | ;) |
| 17:18.09 | wurp2 | I'd bet port forwarding is less computing resources, but on a modern machine, it's totally negligible |
| 17:18.09 | kdean06 | Interesting, gonna have to set that up. |
| 17:18.25 | wurp2 | And I agree with gamin re: fiddling with iptables |
| 17:18.39 | wurp2 | Not being a unix or network admin, I suck at it anyway |
| 17:18.42 | kdean06 | I couldn't care less about that, personally. ;P |
| 17:18.57 | kdean06 | But i suppose being able to start and stop a service is marginally simpler. ;) |
| 17:19.08 | wurp2 | that == iptables || that == resources? |
| 17:19.16 | wurp2 | ah, iptables |
| 17:19.32 | kdean06 | Yeah. |
| 17:20.49 | kdean06 | Hrm, I wonder if there's a tspc ipkg for the neo. |
| 17:22.17 | kdean06 | Not in the default set, anyway. |
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| 17:31.14 | wurp2 | tspc for emulating ipv6? |
| 17:34.42 | kdean06 | IPv6 tunnel, yeah. |
| 17:34.58 | kdean06 | I don't think there are many US ISPs that yet support IPv6 so I need to fake it. :) |
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| 17:45.54 | mwester | kdean06: Same experience here - I asked my ISP about ipv6 support, they said "Why??" |
| 17:46.19 | kdean06 | Cause NAT is a bitch. |
| 17:46.25 | kdean06 | Simple enough for me. :) |
| 17:46.42 | kdean06 | My ISP thinks it's "neat" but doesn't have any demand for spending the money on it. |
| 17:47.13 | mwester | I just wanted to learn and experiment, but they pretty much said I'm on my own, and they had no plans for support in the future either. |
| 17:47.43 | cjb_ie | did you tell them they'd be first against the wall, etc? :) |
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| 17:48.07 | mwester | Yeah, when China completes their plan to purchase the US, they'll be in trouble ;) |
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| 17:56.46 | cesarb | Just use miredo, instant IPv6 |
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| 17:58.18 | kdean06 | Miredo is a tunnel too, how is it better? |
| 17:59.18 | wurp2 | cesarb: I saw some talk in the room over the weekend that indicated that an early version of cpu frequency control was working on the neo |
| 17:59.26 | wurp2 | Is that true? Very exciting stuff! |
| 18:00.50 | cesarb | wurp2: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:CesarB/cpufreq |
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| 18:12.27 | wurp2 | cesarb: thx, reading |
| 18:14.49 | robtaylor | cesarb: oh, you poor man, having to implement cpufreq for anything more complex than an intel pc is pain |
| 18:15.19 | cesarb | robtaylor: someone has to do it |
| 18:15.35 | cesarb | robtaylor: and several parts of the code actually helped |
| 18:15.49 | cesarb | robtaylor: for instance the freq_table helpers and the policy notifiers |
| 18:15.53 | robtaylor | cesarb: DPM was decet, shame it died the death |
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| 18:16.13 | wurp2 | cesarb: So all of that has been tested on a real device? |
| 18:17.14 | cesarb | wurp2: all I have written so far, yes, but about half of the drivers are missing the notifiers |
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| 18:17.27 | cesarb | wurp2: which is why I'm testing without the SD card, for instance |
| 18:17.51 | cesarb | wurp2: the sound also won't work so far, since it needs the notifier |
| 18:18.00 | cesarb | wurp2: but the harder part should already be done |
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| 18:31.25 | wurp2 | cesarb: Yeah, I'm impressed as hell at what progress has been made since the time I first heard you were on it until now |
| 18:31.44 | wurp2 | Many projects wouldn't even have the "developer bootstrap" page you built this early in the game :-) |
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| 18:41.14 | cesarb | wurp2: in fact, it's going slower than I wanted... I seem to lose half of the time to chasing bugs |
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| 18:46.56 | cesarb | ...in fact, just writing it here was enough for me to find why: I'm probably deadlocking! |
| 18:49.30 | wurp2 | cesarb: Only half? You're doing great ;-) |
| 18:50.01 | wurp2 | cesarb: Do you have any tests for this stuff? It seems you would have to run the tests from a PC with a usb connection to the neo... |
| 18:50.12 | wurp2 | to do real red light/green light unit tests |
| 18:51.26 | cesarb | wurp2: no unit tests. I first test whatever I changed on qemu (to catch the simple cases like obvious oops messages, or it outputting the wrong thing on the debug printks), and then I test on the real hardware (which is where the baffling behaviour usually shows up) |
| 18:51.35 | Seb` | hey =) |
| 18:51.45 | Seb` | my gps is okkk =) |
| 18:52.12 | wurp2 | Seb`: congrats |
| 18:52.15 | cesarb | wurp2: the most baffling one I had so far was one where I was getting a null pointer dereference, in a place where it simply couldn't happen (since it had just read from the very same pointer) |
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| 18:52.43 | cesarb | wurp2: in the end, it was because I was setting the registers in the wrong order and running the bus at 266MHz (way higher than the 133MHz it usually gets) |
| 18:52.51 | Seb` | wurp2, now, installing openstreetmaps it's difficult ? |
| 18:55.09 | wurp2 | cesarb: Yeah, working down at low level, especially screwing around with timing, is always fun |
| 18:55.18 | wurp2 | Seb`: I didn't think it was difficult at all |
| 18:55.28 | wurp2 | Seb`: After I wrote a python script to download the files for me |
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| 19:10.42 | cesarb | Yeah, I'm deadlocking in console_sem. Greeeaaaat... :P |
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| 19:15.46 | Seb` | you have website for explications of installation gps ? |
| 19:15.51 | Seb` | openmapstreet :p |
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| 19:20.25 | gamin | Seb`: tangogps.org ;) |
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| 19:23.17 | mwester | cesarb: what kernel are you currently working with? |
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| 19:27.37 | wurp2 | Seb`: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Navit#Setting_up_Navit |
| 19:28.22 | wurp2 | I used (and wrote) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Navit#Script_to_download_OSM_maps |
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| 19:28.46 | wurp2 | Basically it's just 3 steps: |
| 19:29.02 | wurp2 | 1) find out your lat & long max & min using http://informationfreeway.org |
| 19:29.23 | wurp2 | 2) Download all the .osm files for those lat/long using http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Navit#Script_to_download_OSM_maps |
| 19:29.34 | wurp2 | 3) Run cat *.osm | osm2navit --dedupe-ways mymap.bin |
| 19:29.46 | wurp2 | (oh, and 4) scp mymap.bin to the neo) |
| 19:30.07 | wurp2 | And I left out the steps where you might need to install navit and python to your desktop :-) |
| 19:30.23 | wurp2 | and the step where you edit your navit.xml to point to your new map |
| 19:30.39 | wurp2 | But it sounds so much nicer if you say it only takes 3 steps ;-) |
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| 19:36.45 | cesarb | mwester: currently 2.6.24 with the OM patches up to a few revisions ago |
| 19:38.09 | zem_ | cu |
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| 19:43.21 | cesarb | completely random question: since gta02 has some leds, will it blink them on a kernel panic (like the keyboard leds of normal PCs)? |
| 19:44.17 | ewon | if it's controllable with GPIO or something, sure |
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| 19:48.08 | mwester | cesarb: If you'd like. Do you know Morse Code? |
| 19:48.37 | cesarb | mwester: I thought the "blink panic in morse code" patch to the kernel was rejected some years ago |
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| 19:50.09 | cesarb | mwester: I just thought it would be useful the same way the keyboard leds panic blink is (letting you know it had a kernel panic) |
| 19:51.05 | pgssgp | cesarb: May be fifo is getting full which may result deadlock until fifo is empty |
| 19:51.18 | wurp2 | I wrote a little script to monitor for slow charge and ask if you want to switch to fast charge |
| 19:51.31 | wurp2 | Now I have a power management type of question... |
| 19:52.10 | wurp2 | Considering file caching, bus traffic, etc. is it significantly cheaper to start up python once every 5 minutes (or 1 minute, or whatever) |
| 19:52.23 | wurp2 | or load python once & keep it in memory, doing the delay loop in python? |
| 19:52.36 | wurp2 | I suspect the latter is significantly better |
| 19:52.55 | cesarb | wurp2: keeping in memory is much better unless you are low in memory |
| 19:53.12 | wurp2 | k, thanks for confirming |
| 19:53.16 | cesarb | wurp2: since you save the CPU work of loading (and later exiting) the interpreter |
| 19:53.27 | wurp2 | Yeah |
| 19:53.52 | wurp2 | the only downside would be as you said if you hit memory limit, in which case you perhaps get file IO for other tasks |
| 19:53.57 | wurp2 | but it sounds unlikely |
| 19:53.59 | cesarb | wurp2: just keep in mind that the neo doesn't use swap and has memory which, while large for 90's standards, is much smaller than what most are used to currently |
| 19:54.11 | wurp2 | sure |
| 19:54.30 | wurp2 | My plan is to do my best to unload everything from python mem except what the script needs for the periodic check |
| 19:54.32 | cesarb | wurp2: well, the unused parts of the python executable and dynamic libraries can be "swapped out" (actually discarded) |
| 19:54.35 | wurp2 | which is next to nothing |
| 19:55.46 | wurp2 | Eventually I presume this will be replaced by some C code integrated into OM |
| 19:55.48 | cesarb | wurp2: and if you have several small tasks like that you could perhaps combine them in a single modular python script... |
| 19:55.58 | cesarb | wurp2: quite possibly |
| 19:56.06 | wurp2 | Yeah, a pythond could be handy |
| 19:56.12 | wurp2 | I talked with some people about that before |
| 19:56.37 | wurp2 | I need to see how much control python gives over loading & unloading modules, and partitioning processes from one another |
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| 20:26.59 | afents | blah |
| 20:27.10 | afents | how to make an & with the new keyboard? :P |
| 20:27.57 | wurp2 | afents: You can't |
| 20:28.33 | thomasg | the new keyboard is pretty useless imho |
| 20:28.42 | afents | ditto |
| 20:28.45 | kdean06 | wurp2, Sure you can. CTRL + SHIFT + 7 :) |
| 20:28.59 | wurp2 | afents: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Switching_Keyboards |
| 20:29.00 | thomasg | I mean - who uses the neo as phone and needs the big keys at moment, but can't even test basic things because the most needed keys are missing? |
| 20:29.16 | wurp2 | kdean06: How do you CTRL + SHIFT using multitap? |
| 20:29.32 | kdean06 | You don't. |
| 20:30.01 | wurp2 | Please, someone who knows more about neo's input methods improve that Switching_Keyboards page |
| 20:30.26 | kdean06 | thomasg, Honestly, for "basic" phone functions, the multi-tap works. It's the "advanced" things that suck, and the multi-tap is ANNOYING for SMS. |
| 20:30.58 | wurp2 | I created a file called 'a' in the root that does shuts down multitap and starts up matchbox |
| 20:31.06 | wurp2 | Then I type '. a' after opening the terminal |
| 20:31.48 | wurp2 | and I created a file called 'k' that shuts down matchbox and restarts the multitap daemon |
| 20:32.02 | wurp2 | Finally I created a .desktop file that starts up matchbox-keyboard |
| 20:32.21 | wurp2 | For those times when I end up with both multitap and matchbox killed :-) |
| 20:34.45 | thomasg | kdean06, yeah, it's enough for basic phone functions - but the basic phone functions are one thing nobody of the current people uses. for everything more than that - and everything somebody uses at all - it sucks. |
| 20:35.24 | kdean06 | I pretty much use my Neo only for basic phone services. :P |
| 20:35.31 | kdean06 | But I'd LIKE to use it for more. |
| 20:35.39 | thomasg | wurp2, of course you can switch, but I don't see the reason for putting the multitap-pad upstream as _replacement_ |
| 20:36.19 | wurp2 | I mostly use my neo for phone, linux terminal, mp3 player, gps |
| 20:36.32 | wurp2 | the only thing I use the kbd for is terminal, and for that multitap sucketh |
| 20:37.12 | wurp2 | thomasg: Oh, I agree. I was just listing the techniques I was using because afents seemed to be looking for workarounds |
| 20:37.34 | kdean06 | thomasg, Because there was a bug in matchbox keyboard and they wanted to enable some functionality while the replacement is being written. |
| 20:37.35 | afents | it should be switchable |
| 20:37.35 | thomasg | wurp2, yeah, thanks anyway |
| 20:37.37 | gamin | the old xkdb works better than the matchbox-keyboard... |
| 20:37.43 | gamin | its in the feeds. |
| 20:37.51 | wurp2 | thomasg: Do you know how to switch back a better way? |
| 20:38.01 | wurp2 | gamin: I assume you mean xkbd |
| 20:38.06 | wurp2 | I'll have to hunt for that |
| 20:38.10 | gamin | oh yes. |
| 20:38.29 | gamin | I may write an applet to switch it on and off |
| 20:38.29 | thomasg | wurp2, no, I use my own om-version and haven't updated on multitap |
| 20:39.28 | wurp2 | My current solution is (obviously) very much spit & bailing wire |
| 20:43.31 | thomasg | I hope I'll finish my own keyboard somewhen the next weeks - will include full ASCII (and more) and be easy to use with fingers |
| 20:44.21 | wurp2 | I'd be very interested in a keyboard that shows as a shadow on the whole screen |
| 20:44.25 | wurp2 | to get more real estate |
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| 20:44.54 | wurp2 | Also, something that works like the BlackBerry keyboard would be nice |
| 20:45.14 | thomasg | doesn't the blackberry have qwerty? |
| 20:45.19 | wurp2 | Sort of |
| 20:45.23 | wurp2 | Each key does double duty |
| 20:45.40 | wurp2 | Then they use an algorithm to predict what you 'meant' as you type |
| 20:45.46 | wurp2 | it works very well |
| 20:46.41 | wurp2 | mwester: Heh |
| 20:47.04 | wurp2 | And the awesome thing about that is that as the predictive algorithms get more advanced, the errors get more subtle and hard to find |
| 20:48.42 | mwester | yeah - at least when I did it, enough of the message was garbled that it didn't make any sense instead of just offending someone. |
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| 20:49.03 | zem_ | re |
| 20:51.31 | wurp2 | I was thinking about putting together a qwerty keyboard that shows the letters, with no key delineators |
| 20:51.48 | wurp2 | then using predictive algorithms and which keys are near where you pressed to divine what you meant |
| 20:52.28 | wurp2 | possibly also figuring out over time which locations touched mapped to which key you meant to type, based on corrections |
| 20:52.47 | xcasex | raster: how is the efl hackery coming along? |
| 20:53.04 | wurp2 | Of course, by the time I finished it (given the time I have to devote to such things) people will just have good input devices for mobiles/wearables |
| 20:56.30 | Ebbe | I'd really like to see a full screen qwerty-keyboard keyboard |
| 20:56.41 | Ebbe | .. |
| 20:58.22 | gamin | Ebbe: I just upoaded an screenshot of xkbd |
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| 20:59.53 | wurp2 | gamin: Uploaded where? |
| 20:59.54 | Ebbe | gamin: Nto at all what I had in mind. I want the orientation swap'd and to use it fullscreen |
| 21:00.10 | Ebbe | s/Nto/Not/ |
| 21:00.26 | gamin | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/index.php?page=1 |
| 21:00.44 | wurp2 | Is it just a bug that the "dim only, don't lock" option in the power button menu still locks the screen? |
| 21:00.58 | wurp2 | Or do I misunderstand what 'lock' means in that context? |
| 21:01.25 | Ebbe | wurp2: It means lock the phone, it's not about the display |
| 21:02.44 | kdean06 | Yeah, I've noticed that. "Dim only, don't lock" causes the Matrix screen. "Dim then lock" causes a crash. :) |
| 21:03.04 | kdean06 | WEll, no, it causes a suspend, which attempts to resume from cause a crash. |
| 21:03.14 | kdean06 | So I've stopped testing that... I probably should. |
| 21:03.21 | mwester | Can't argue with that. A crash is most certainly a form of locking... ;) |
| 21:03.28 | kdean06 | Indeed! |
| 21:03.52 | Ebbe | kdean06: Have you updated your kernel? |
| 21:04.07 | kdean06 | I think the term "locking" in relation to mobile deviced has a very limited meaning.. |
| 21:04.29 | mwester | I don't think there's been a kernel yet that can resume successfully; apparently there are issues with the serial driver and the gsm modem. |
| 21:04.33 | kdean06 | Ebbe, I haven't, haven't had the patience to sit down and do a complile and there's no new snapshots. |
| 21:05.45 | Ebbe | kdean06: Well I'd suggest trying that before posting to many bug reports :) |
| 21:06.29 | kdean06 | You mean try the .24 kernel, no? |
| 21:07.04 | Ebbe | Yep |
| 21:08.26 | Ebbe | kdean06: Well, I have success with the 22.5-moko11 |
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| 21:09.08 | kdean06 | Oh... In that case, yes. I update every day to the newest snapshots on buildhost. |
| 21:09.30 | kdean06 | I'm running the kernel from 31 Jan 2008. |
| 21:11.11 | Ebbe | kdean06: Maybe you could try one from http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D |
| 21:11.37 | kdean06 | I've used some of those as well. :) |
| 21:12.20 | kdean06 | Ebbe, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Snapshot_review/2008-01-29 -> This review used kernel and rootfs from that. |
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| 21:13.03 | zem__ | re |
| 21:13.45 | Ebbe | kdean06: It doesn't say anything about lock/resume |
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| 21:15.18 | kdean06 | I notice. :) I'll add it to my future reviews. :) |
| 21:16.34 | Ebbe | No news is good news ;) |
| 21:16.50 | kdean06 | I've been told he was misquoted. :) |
| 21:18.37 | Ebbe | Well, as we all know "Everything is relative" :) |
| 21:19.01 | kdean06 | Ebbe, What's the difference between the .it builds and the "official" ones? Are you involved in those at all? |
| 21:19.48 | Ebbe | kdean06: It's just ScaredyCat who builds .it. I don't know from where.. |
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| 21:20.12 | Ebbe | I'm not involved |
| 21:21.54 | kdean06 | Okay. I'm just not sure why it would be different. |
| 21:22.29 | Ebbe | kdean06: It just seems like .it is newer |
| 21:22.30 | kdean06 | Unless there's some patches going in there, I'd think they'd be roughtly the same and ScaredyCat told me he uses the latest stuff, which i assumed the snapshots did too. |
| 21:23.34 | Ebbe | kdean06: The official builds don't even have the .24 kernel yet |
| 21:23.51 | kdean06 | There hasn't been one since the switch was made, I think. |
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| 21:29.08 | morphir | how many seconds does it take for Neo1973 to boot up? |
| 21:31.37 | zem__ | Hmmm, about 10-20 I think |
| 21:33.30 | kdean06 | morphir, I test from the moment I push go on "Boot" to when the digits of the clock appear on the home page, and for me it's been about 1 minutes 30 seconds on average. But depending on what you might wanna do the definition of "boot" may change. |
| 21:35.42 | morphir | hmm |
| 21:36.06 | morphir | anyone tried einit? |
| 21:37.34 | morphir | 1.30 is not fast :) |
| 21:37.51 | morphir | with all due respect |
| 21:38.36 | kdean06 | No, it's slow as dirt. ;) |
| 21:38.44 | kdean06 | There's a LOT of discussion on how to bring that down. |
| 21:38.56 | kdean06 | The target is 30 seconds. |
| 21:39.07 | kdean06 | Though I'm not sure how they measure. |
| 21:39.34 | mwester | The general feeling is that there *many* areas for improvement, but I think it would be nice to have some things stabilized before much effort is risked. |
| 21:39.55 | kdean06 | Different INIT methods have been discussed, though I beleive the idea was to trim all of the unneeded crap first. |
| 21:40.05 | morphir | kdean06, contact jyujin einit.org |
| 21:40.26 | mwester | I think that way the discussion was left was that we were going to trim the obvious areas, and then instrument the boot up so that it can be measured more accurately. |
| 21:40.35 | kdean06 | Nice. |
| 21:40.35 | morphir | kdean06, it uses xml |
| 21:40.52 | morphir | which makes it easy to make modules |
| 21:41.00 | kdean06 | morphir, I'm not involved in that at all. :) I'm sure your input on the mailing list would be beneficial. |
| 21:42.06 | mwester | morphir: |
| 21:42.06 | mwester | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:42.28 | mwester | The archives are also somewhere on that mailman page, IIRC. |
| 21:43.17 | morphir | that sound promising too me |
| 21:43.22 | morphir | *sounds |
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| 22:56.25 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: I've implemented your suggestion of automagically determining the best divider values for hclk/pclk |
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| 23:04.10 | cesarb | #define REFCNT 997 /* period=17.5us, HCLK=60Mhz, (2048+1-15.6*60) */ |
| 23:04.20 | cesarb | since when is HCLK 60MHz? |
| 23:04.33 | cesarb | (at default boot I mean) |
| 23:05.26 | cesarb | This also seem to be the case in my "august snapshot" uboot, so it works, but even then it looks strange |
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| 23:26.48 | cesarb | Does anyone know if there's a qemu emulation of gta02, complete with its SoC frequency registers? |
| 23:27.15 | raster | nup |
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| 23:30.27 | balrog-kun | cesarb: afaik there isn't any |
| 23:31.02 | balrog-kun | it's possible that there will be but not before march :/ |
| 23:31.33 | balrog-kun | ..or april |
| 23:32.01 | cesarb | balrog-kun: makes it kinda harder to test cpufreq for the gta02, doesn't it? ;-) |
| 23:32.24 | balrog-kun | cesarb: yes, i imagine so :p |
| 23:32.45 | balrog-kun | ...unless someone submits gta02 emulation patches obviously |
| 23:33.14 | balrog-kun | i imagine that's not an extreme amount of work |
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| 23:40.08 | Moniker42 | hey, someone lent me their GTA01 |
| 23:40.13 | Moniker42 | but it doesn't appear to *do* anything |
| 23:40.30 | ewon | Moniker42: you don't have the Ancient DNA. |
| 23:40.32 | Moniker42 | i'm wondering if it's bricked, or am i not charging it correctly? |
| 23:40.54 | Moniker42 | ewon, oh dear, i don't have pure open-source blood flowing through my veins :) |
| 23:43.14 | mmontour | Moniker42: it's quite likely a charge issue. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery_Charger#Neo1973_emergency_charging |
| 23:43.29 | balrog-kun | Moniker42: i guess you've already tried pressing the (two) buttons in all combinations? |
| 23:43.40 | Moniker42 | there's a second button? |
| 23:43.55 | balrog-kun | it looks like an IrDA port when you don't knwo about it |
| 23:44.02 | balrog-kun | (but there's no IrDA port) |
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| 23:44.24 | Moniker42 | oh |
| 23:44.38 | Moniker42 | yes, i've tried pressing them in all three combinations :P |
| 23:44.59 | Moniker42 | or all four, if you include not pressing them at all (as we computer scientists should) |
| 23:45.30 | cesarb | Moniker42: try: hold the AUX button (the one which looks like a IrDA port), and then hold the power button, keep both held for a few seconds. That should open the bootloader |
| 23:45.52 | cesarb | Moniker42: the normal boot should be holding the power button for a few seconds |
| 23:46.06 | balrog-kun | well, i can tell you the fourth combination doesn't power up the device :p |
| 23:46.08 | cesarb | Moniker42: in both cases you can release after you feel the vibrator (and the screen turns on) |
| 23:47.08 | Moniker42 | i tried following those instructions... still isn't doing anything |
| 23:47.24 | Moniker42 | although i didn't wait an hour |
| 23:47.51 | balrog-kun | how long has it been charging? |
| 23:47.57 | Moniker42 | about 2-3 minutes? |
| 23:48.08 | Moniker42 | that is, assuming it's doing anything at all |
| 23:48.40 | balrog-kun | you are only able to tell whether it's been charging after about two or three hours :) |
| 23:48.57 | Moniker42 | ¬.¬ |
| 23:49.06 | balrog-kun | (but it usually is charing) |
| 23:49.17 | zem_ | cu |
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| 23:57.17 | raynet | in my case, when the phone has been dead, i just plug it in for charging and in the morning it is ready to run again |